...with a look at "The Space Museum," a four part William Hartnell story which aired between April and May in 1965. It's directed by Mervyn Pinfield, who also helmed "The Sensorites" in the Hartnell era. His work here is considerably more agreeable.
AN INTERESTING ARTICLE ABOUT DOCTOR WHO FANDOM
I've been doing what I do for a very long time, and have personally experienced some rather horrendous fan behavior in the past. People have decided not to be my friend, or start hate mail campaigns against me, simply because I didn't share their opinions about a show that was important to them (or because I changed my mind). I once received death threats from readers who simply couldn't accept the truth of news I was reporting about a show they were deeply connected to emotionally...news they simply didn't possess the honesty or clarity to truly comprehend.
To be clear, I'm not referring to DOCTOR WHO fans by saying this, although I have encountered a few hyper-aggressive, unhealthily militant WHOvians over the past year or so (none of the Docback regulars) - so I have at least some sense of where this piece is coming from.
Presented for your consideration, and hopefully discussion below, is THIS article from DenOfGeek.
-- Merrick blasts IDW's lazy and shitty comics continuation of the 2009 TREK movie
-- Ken's afraid of his webcam and blames his misgivings on being tired
-- We both loathe James Cameron's TITANIC
-- The joys and perils of Taco Cabana
-- When barbecue eats your pants
-- A brief discussion of SHERLOCK Series/Season 2
... and more! All Fart Machine free! Or, is it...?
New installment HERE, past shows HERE. More coming!
The Doctor (William Hartnell) and companions Ian (William Russell), Barbara (Jacqueline Hill) and Vicki (Maureen O’Brien) materialize on planet Xeros (not Xerox)...
...after having experienced some sort of time hiccup. Our heroes quickly move on to explore a nearby “museum” - where they quickly learn they can be neither seen nor heard by that facility’s personnel. A mystery which deepens when they stumble across themselves (literally), frozen forever, standing side-by-side in a museum display.
“The Space Museum” is a fascinating contradiction. Arguably the SEINFELD of the WHOverse, it skillfully (or luckily?) manages to be about many things, while seeming to be about very little at face value.
Superficially, TSM appears to be a celebration / condemnation of the innate inefficiency of living things. The Doctor and his companions spend a better part of an episode wandering the halls of the museum, unsure about where they’re going and what they’ll find when they get where ever they‘re going. Much like the SEINFELD episode in which Jerry and his friends wander an airport parking garage.
Governor Lobos (not Sheriff Lobo)...
...and his band of elite Morok (not Morlock)....
... operatives, guardians and officials of a once great empire, appear unable to apprehend our unwelcome or and meandering heroes, despite being specifically charged with protecting the museum (which is said to be a monument to their Empire’s past glories - although it’s suspiciously, and humorously, devoid of displays).
Lobos and Co. appear equally inept when dealing with (or not dealing with) a rebellion on Xeros - i.e. the world’s native inhabitants (a buncha darkly dressed lanky teens in tennis shoes), whov’e grown tired of the Morok. I’m not sure exactly why these Xeron kids are so annoyed with the Morok - as the Morok don’t ever appear to actually do anything, so I fail to see the impedance to co-existence. But, whatever...
Said rebellion is also a bit rubbish in itself. They’ve apparently been flirting with upheaval for quite some time, but have been unable to figure out how to mount an actual, effective rising against their opponents. Instead, they sneak around the corridors of the museum like a buncha middle schoolers trolling a neighborhood late at night, when they should probably be at home in bed.
‘Tis clumsy, bewildering, bizarre madness. Or, is it?
When you dig towards its core, and pry beneath its surface oddness, one discovers that scripter Glyn Jones’ story is actually about one fundamental and poignant concept - the power to change one’s fate by being proactive and decisive. The complexion of the youth rebellion against the Morok shifts dramatically once the younguns are properly galvanized into action - once they cease their listless meandering. The reciprocal effect of this also changes the destines of our heroic travelers - who themselves helped to light a fire under the kid’s asses. And, in a twisted way, even the outcome of the ill fated Morok is shaped by their finally assuming an aggressive stance against the rebellion . In the end, “The Space Museum” seems to both affectionately embrace human kind’s sometimes lackluster and indecisive nature, while also ramming a skewer right through the heart of those very same qualities. When viewed like this, “The Space Museum” ceases to be about “nothing,” and suddenly becomes a pointed manifesto for life. Do something. Do anything. Just...DO.
There’s a strong simplicity running throughout this story (which actually calls energy weapons “ray guns”)...
...masking its loftier ideals and ambitions. This may be one reason the story doesn’t find greater acceptance amongst fans, simply because it appears narrower and clumsier than it really is.
Challenging fate and forging one’s own destiny is a message which would recur time and time again in DOCTOR WHO over the years. As is acknowledging the impact of chance encounters with others - an undercurrent which is also present here. Indeed, one might argue that these notions eventually became the very heartbeat of the show as a whole. “Space Museum” wasn’t the first time such sentiments had been echoed in WHO - I first noted their pointed evocation in the Doctor’s unexpected goodbye to Susan at the end of “The Dalek Invasion of Earth” (Hartnell, Story # 10).
That’s not only a powerful philosophy for a title whose characters and adventures often feel so willy-nilly and tempest tossed, but beloved and necessary element of the overall WHO dynamic.
That message wasn’t just intended for occupants of the WHOverse, though. It’s meant for all of us, and it’s an easy manifesto to overlook when we’re being assaulted by the pressures and strains of our everyday lives. Don’t accept the way of things. Fight for or against what you believe is your fate, because what you perceive to be inevitable may be nothing more than a gateway to a greater and more meaningful adventure. That’s a lovely and potent notion when one thinks about it. So let’s get going...
"The Space Museum" is included on a multi-disc DVD set which also features "The Chase." It's available HERE in the U.S. and HERE in the U.K.
1) a Docback should be about completely open and free discourse regarding all things WHO with, obviously, some variation on subject matter from time to time - the real world intervenes, discussions of other shows are inevitable, etc.)...
2) matters of SPOILAGE should be handled with thoughtful consideration and sensitivity. Posts containing SPOILERS should clearly state that a SPOILER exists in its topic/headline and should never state the spoiler itself . "** SPOILER ** Regarding Rory" is OK, for example. "** SPOILER ** Battle of Zarathustra" is fine as well. " **SPOILER** Why did everyone die?" Is NOT good.
And, above all...
3) converse, agree, disagree, and question as much as you want - but the freedom to do so is NOT a license to be rude, crass, disrespectful, or uncivilized in any way. Not remaining courteous and civil, as well as TROLLING or undertaking sensational efforts to ignite controversy, will result in banning. Lack of courtesy may receive one (1) warning before a ban is instigated. Obvious Trolling or Spamming will result in summary banning with no warning. One word posts intended to bump-up any Docback's figures on AICN's "Top Talkbacks" sidebar will be considered actionable Spam - they not only complicate efforts to access Docback from mobile devices, but impede readers' abilities to follow or engage in flowing conversation.
In short, it's easy. Be excellent to each other. Now party on...
The first episode is one of the best Hartnell episodes.
Although I agree with Merrick's thoughts about the message for actually doing something, I always had problems with the later episodes precisely because the rebellion (and the other side) were such rubbish. It just seemed strange that one companion could come in and say *hey, let's have a rebellion* just the way she might have said *hey, let's put on a show* if she had been interested in staging a musical, and then it all went together.
That said, I really did like the bit with Hartnell hiding inside the Dalek. I also liked when they were probing the Doctor's mind to get information they got the image of Hartnell in the Victorian one piece bathing suit. Priceless.
(I'm reposting it in this thread since people might not have seen it when I posted it in the old thread earlier this morning.)
The director of last year's hugely popular film Drive, Nicolas Winding Refn, has revealed that he wanted to direct an episode of Doctor Who - but was turned down. He told Short List.com:
*I would have loved to direct Doctor Who but they didn’t want me — they turned me down last year. Maybe if they revive Blake’s 7 I could do that. I love it. It’s great. That could be fun to update. *
I agree with some parts, but it seems like the author has an axe to grind. It seems like he might have been a Fern Britton fan who got offended that some people took her to task. Since I didn't look at the twitter feeds about it, I don't know if Andrew Blair is right about most of the tweets mocking her about her weight or if they were actually a small portion that he's exaggerated about just to make his point.
Later on he talks about the fans claiming that Moffat in amidst all the litanies of what fans are saying. From what I've seen, the complaints about Moffat's supposed sexism have been the media in general, not the fans. This undermines the rest of his argument - if he's wrong on that, how can we believe the rest of what he says?
Yes, I've seen some of the activity he's described (and it's not just limited to Doctor Who), but it completely overlooks the positives. Yes, fans had a reaction to the hiatus that upset Grade. Then again, Grade probably wasn't used to having to deal with public uproars over his activities and wasn't sure how to take it. Blair pulls out this one example but doesn't bother to mention that is was fandom that brought back Doctor Who. It was fandom that was responsible for keeping Doctor Who going after it was cancelled by supporting the New Adventures that Virgin published. Fandom embraced this, and many fans wrote for it. This includes Paul Cornell, Russell Davies, Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat publishing Doctor Who novels or short stories through Virgin. Eventually enough fans found themselves in positions where they could help drive Doctor Who coming back. If it weren't for fandom we wouldn't have had Eccleston, Tennant or Matt Smith.
Thanks for posting that Merrick! I'd love to hear what fellow Docbackers think of it. Is it too harsh? Has it a grain of truth?
Personally, I loved the article. Can't believe it took someone so long to actually write it!
I'd love to see him direct an episode of Who. Just because he didn't make the cut last time around doesn't mean he won't be able to get the gig in the future. It's important to get a mix of tried-and-tested directors along with first-timers.
As you can see over the past couple of series of the show, there's always a combination of 'regular' directors and newer ones. I'm sure it won't be too long before we see an announcement on cast and crew for the next series.
As an aside, I'd move heaven and earth to see Edgar Wright's take on Doctor Who, with Nick Frost getting his chance to play in the Doctor's world. It's only fair after Simon and Jessica have had their turns!
It's an interesting mix; it's not a favorite of mine, indeed, lower on the list of stories, but it has some good elements to it. The first episode I think is its strongest, and it just becomes too drawn out. If it were two parts, I think, it would have stopped many things which hinder it. Alas. As you point out, there are good concepts in it. Just the execution is off.
Often hold the blame when a show falls apart, but rarely hold the luxury of being praised when the show is a success. It's always this case.
If Lucas had listened to the fans more, SW would not have been hurt as much by the prequels. On the other hand, if a show is only about pleasing the fans, the show will not go on. It is a mix which needs to be had; however, fans often understand the success more than the people directly working on it, and so they should at least be listened to.
A good article. It's flat out human nature to attack those who attack things we love or hold dear. Not just SciFi geeks but in all walks of life and in forms from Politics to Football, people who love things get quite carried away with them. These very boards are FILLED with people who just cant help themselves when they feel threatened by someones opinion, myself included!! I know Ive had to count to 10, write out my frustrations, then wait a bit to see if how I felt in the heat of the moment was REALLY how I felt. That's the danger with our "instant" society today. We dont have a cool down period anymore. Something happens and "TWEET" our instant thought is out there and before you can say "OH SHIT!" it's too late and you can't take it back. And half of whats out there is put there just to get you to make that type of reaction. Its there for the "gotcha" moment. Almost like every "drama" oriented person you knew in high school is out there just stirring the pot, kicking back and watching the chaos ensue. But what the hell do I know... I'm just a SciFi geek ;)
I can corroborate that Glen did indeed receive death threats, as have I, from fans irate at an opinion contrary to their own, or a criticism leveled at their favorite show. Thankfully, this is a minority - but it is a very loud, very disturbing one. I've found it's best not to engage or try and debate them.
My rule is you can't talk sane to crazy.
Obviously this is not a new phenomenon. This has been going on since there have been fans of...well, anything. The difference has been the Internet, and its ability to bring them together in large groups.
If you're bored sometime, go back and read Google Groups archives of rec.arts.drwho. Especially around the time of the Fox telefilm. Land-o-goshin, there was some vitriol tossed out around then.
You even see this with sports fans. Listen to sports talk radio sometime, or go find a forum for...I dunno, the New York Yankees. This same nonsense is present.
I used to go to OG (or whatever it's called now), but I stopped because I got tired of the raging. I love to play Star Trek Online, but I avoid their forums now because of the nasty raging. Take a scan of trekbbs.com sometime; it's horrid.
Bottom line is...all we can do is (A) try to understand that these folks are a small, small minority of actual fans, and (B) keep away from them if we can, because (at least in my case) it just gets the blood boiling.
If I'm Steve Moffat (for example), I'm looking at the ratings and AI figures for the show and ignoring whatever the knobs over on OG are yammering about.
Simplicity indeed. Here we have ANOTHER adventure slapped together due to near total lack of money. Mush like "The Edge of Destruction" from the first season,"The Space Museum" was roughly taped together with no money because of budget overruns. This time the main culprit was..I know it's your favorite..."The Web Planet" Nobody in any level of production was willing to give an inch in creating "Web"s majesty and the result is this wallpaper paste. While I dug "Edge" aka "Inside the Spaceship", this one is like watching paint dry. Re-used sets, costumes...the works. Luckily (is that sarcasm?...tune in next week to find out) the more "put together" The Chase is next week.
Granted, it's not one of the classics, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's one of the worst. Granted, it's average at best, but at the same time it's not anywhere near as bad as Time and the Rani or The Twin Dilemma. This one didn't make me want to drive icepicks through my eyes.
Lack of money doesn't necessarily mean a bad show, though. I enjoyed the Edge of Destruction, and don't forget that they had to add an episode to The Mind Robber (the 1st episode) while having to stick with the TARDIS set and no money to use anything except a couple of cans of white paint that they scrounged up (probably nicking, er..Borrowing it from another production). They still made that one of the best episodes of Who produced. Sometimes the lack of budget can be the mother of invention. In this case, though, like you said parts of the script were like watching paint dry. I never had that feeling with the first episode, though - the jumping a time track bit provided some dramatic tension that dissipated once they started episode 2.
Doctor Who fandom can be passionate and yes there are trolls on the internet. Anything with any connection to entertainment or popular culture will get ripped to shreds somewhere on the internet. Doctor Who gets off comparatively easy in the grand scheme of things. Why do I say that? Five words:
George. Lucas. Raped. My. Childhood.
No fandom on the internet is as intense as that of Star Wars. At this very moment (which is any moment, whenever you read this it will be happening), thousands of people on thousands of sites are writing forum posts or chat room messages or blogs declaring that Lucas is evil, that the prequels suck etc etc in much more vile ways that I would ever consider saying in this miracle of a peaceful talkback.
Look at the number of Lucas-related talkbacks that appeared in the last few weeks in the run up to the Red Tails release. Look how long each of them are and see how many hateful posts there are.
I could go into any random talkback right now and right a message saying I like the Star Wars prequels and I would get a dozen messages back saying that I was a stupid child, that Lucas was a hack, that they can't wait for him to die so that someone "talented" can take over Star Wars. Those dozen messages would each get a dozen replies adding to the hatred and my simple post where I said I liked the prequels would be lost in a collage of hateful fanboys spitting poisonous, rage-filled rants that to historians looking back on the internet a thousand years from now, will make it seem like Lucas was somehow Adolf Hitler's even more evil cousin with the Star Wars prequels apparently being worse than the Holocaust.
Everything in fandom has extreme elements. The internet provides anonymity and a place to indulge in hateful banter with like-minded individuals. If you showed these hate-fuelled messages to a psychologist, they would probably think the writers of such messages were psychopaths.
Doctor Who has a long history. It's had its ups and downs. It has fans who are passionate about it. It has fans who view the show a certain way and anything that doesn't match their view point becomes the enemy. But when the history of the internet is written, Doctor Who's fanboy hyperbole will be nothing but a footnote compared to what happens when a person tries to talk about Star Wars. And for that I think Doctor Who fans should count themselves lucky.
Well I think you're right to an extent. But I think that's a function of a few things: (1) Star Wars' immense popularity, (2) the utter lack of overall material (seriously, we're talking about 6 movies), (3) the tremendous gap between the two sets of movies (in terms of time), and (4) the marked difference in quality between the two sets. (NOTE: I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on the prequels, but even most of the folks I know who like the prequel movies don't think they are as good as SW/ESB.)
So you have a LOT of fans, who had been waiting for sixteen years for a new film with nothing in between, who were greeted with Phantom Menace.
Let me make this clear: I am NOT defending the Lucas-raped-my-childhood folks. Not not not.
Just trying to point out some reasons why that hate is so much worse and so much more prevalent than your typical Doctor Who extremists, or even the JJ-Abrams-Trek folks.
One of the reasons why the Docbacks are just about the only talkbacks I bother with is because we just don't have that sort of thing going on, here. We have reasoned, rational debates, or even sometimes excited, irrational debates, but we don't do the nastiness here.
The subject of this post may almost seem inflammatory, it is not. Andrew Blair, even if well-intentioned, has done what he claims the fan community has done. He has written a careful, but negative attack, focused on the vocal negative amongst us. I think he missed an opportunity to focus on what makes fandom so FANtastic and positive, friendship-building and community-building. Sure, he mentions those things, almost as AN ASIDE however. I don't see that as even close to fair or honest.
Then he mentions one of Moffat's wonderful responses to criticism, a response based on great wit and lightheartedness. Am I alone in thinking Mr Blair missed something there? Did he miss all of the responses to Ms Britton's words that were just as witty, just as lighthearted? Maybe some were not lighthearted, but many were very witty without resorting to threats and unrelated insults.
Surely, we can read tone into any post on the Internet. Even the best writers can be misinterpreted. Even NOW someone is reading my words, the words I'm typing right now, and reading anger into them. There is none, but it can be read into it. I believe at least some of this can be applied to SOME of the responses to Fern Britton. I have gone over what is available, and have pieced together at least some of what she said, and to be honest.....
Fern Britton has exhibited behaviour that is usually STRONGLY attributed to what on the Internet is considered TROLLING.... and at least Mr Blair is almost forgetting that the words she spoke were negative at all. As if we were all expected to say *oh gosh, but science fiction is SO NIFTY, Ms Britton, and here's why!!* as a response. Are you KIDDING ME?
In other words, I believe she brought at least the merely negative responses on herself. How we respond to such trolling does say something about us as well, surely. But it doesn't excuse her behaviour. Should people be attacked for their opinions? No, of course not. But negative statements should never be made by those who pretend to not expect a negative response. I'm not convinced she made any statement she didn't know would result in publicit... I mean vocal, equally negative response.
Some of it went too far ( sleep with one eye open?? oh come ON... seriously?? I'd remove his account for that. ) but when I look at the archive that is available, most of the responses are nowhere near that level.
I must say that some of this kind of resembles bully behaviour. The worst kind. The kind where one kid walks up to another kid, kicks him in the shins.... the kid with the sore shins gives the first kid a black eye for it... and the bully cries to teacher. Then some poor, uninformed, reactionary child seeks out a teacher to explain what a horrible feeling it was watching the unacceptable violence of witnessing the bullied child's violent outburst. This is, in many circles, called manipulation at best, persecution based on ignorance at worst.
Many seem to forget what it can be like to be a child who loves something that can so easily be used against them by common bullies. I recall what it was like as a small child on *show and tell* day. I remember having a sort of pure, unadulterated love for science fiction back then. Unspoiled by bullying, by persecution, by unfair criticism. I remember bringing my Enterprise play set to school one day. I had modified it, posed the action figures in the setting, all inn their correct spots. I had even modified a Barbie to be Uhura (badly, but still). I was picked on for almost the rest of the year on some level, off and on, for that moment, and had no way of seeing it coming, no context to put it into, no way of protecting myself in advance. Well, if this type of bullying were in ANY way UNcommon, I would feel more sorry for Ms Britton. I'm afraid she was simply insensitive. Not for having the opinion she had and expressing it, but for realizing the kind of feelings it would bring up in the minds of the people watching and saying it anyway.... then expecting anything positive to come from it. I'm not even doing anything even close to calling her a bully. What I am doing is calling her out for being on their side. For not considering that baggage, then crying foul.
(While I do believe I was bullied, it was nowhere near what I witnessed. I had the advantage of being physically substantial in comparison to my peers at that age and avoided some of the more brutal bullying many endure. So in truth, I do NOT truly know what people must feel like in that position. But I certainly witnessed it first hand. And I know people who still carry it with them every day of their lives.)
You could say that yes, people on the Internet tend to speak without a filter. This is true. You could also say that the most negative people are the most vocal and the most prolific (Mr Blair included). You could say that Mr Blair seems to have missed that lesson. But this isn't really the point. The point is that he's missed the BAGGAGE that comes with being a science fiction (and yes, even a Doctor Who ) fan. You simply cannot address the issue of fan backlash without taking this into consideration, even if you don't think it is a justification. He even goes so far as to say the words *most geeks*, as if he is assuming....
1. Most geeks use Twitter. A service more frequently used by the more hip, trendy crowd than true fandom.
2. That most of the tweets were either threatening or unfair. I've been through them. The majority were not. They may have been snarky, but how exactly is snark an unfair response to snark?? Search them yourself, to the point that the overcrowded and under-performing Twitter will allow.The first page of results, of the ones mentioning her comments about sci-fi, only 3 were rude, 1 to the extreme. The rest were witty and smug at the worst. What we are seeing here is an over-reaction to a very vocal, very small minority. The appropriately negative reactions are being included amongst the ones calling for her to be hurt, threatening her or calling her a person that will be *seen next Tuesday*.
3. That even if *most geeks* used Twitter, these vocal JERKS represent a majority. As mentioned before, negative people tend to be very vocal and prolific on the Internet. To assume these people represent fandom on even a small level is naive.
I think what bothers me the most, however, is that by going negative, he has missed an opportunity in favor of drumming up controversy and , let's face it, hits. An opportunity to focus on communities such as ours. Moderated (lightly) communities that while not always agreeing on everything, almost always do so with gratitude, politeness and even admiration amongst those who DO disagree. We may be special, maybe even rare, but we cannot be alone. I find Whovians I come in contact with to be a very special breed. They are positive, intelligent, optimistic, helpful and mostly free of the very common cynicism going around these days. Sure, some of us can be very protective and defensive of our favorites. Small quibble.
I also must call out Mr Blair for mentioning letters written in to papers, fanzines, published being negative and damaging to the cause. Again, terribly naive. You have to remember that papers, fanzines, magazine even TV programmes, have and DO focus at times on the negative and the inflammatory. Does he think for a moment that editors and producers NEVER picked letters and commentary that were inflammatory over letters and commentary that were positive, constructive and (therefore according to editorial policy) BORING? We are now so used to and familiar with what works and does not work when it comes to letter writing campaigns, petitions, etc. Back then, maybe not so much.
I don't want to leave this feeling like a negative attack in and of itself, so I will say that perhaps this was an article that was simply written too soon after the fact. Maybe he didn't think it over as much as he should have before publishing it, much like I'm sure some of the Twitter(ers) he criticizes. I mean, doesn't it all seem a little too easy?
Or maybe Mr Blair is suffering from Knight in Shining Armour syndrome. But I don't think I see any evidence that he's that chauvinistic, or even sexist on any level. Just a wild theory.
Or maybe, just maybe, I have misinterpreted it all and he's absolutely right. I'm willing to listen to any thoughts that would support this. I just think he has done what he accuses *all geeks* of. (his words) Focusing on the negative and over-reacting.
Besides, he should check out a Star Trek forum sometime, or maybe talkback in general. I think it could be what we call a real wake up call. We're the good ones.
The fact that Twitter makes so little of their archives available to the common Twitter users, and has recently cut Google off so that they cannot archive them either. So it makes it difficult to really investigate anything on Twitter, to any real extent.
I think Twitter has in some ways outgrown its usefulness , and even recently announced that in some countries, will start allowing censorship. After all of the inspiration and community building it has allowed these last couple of years.
Death threats? For your opinions related to Who? I'm sorry that's ever happened.
Back in the old days of IRC, when I ran a couple of channels, I would get such threats on occasion. Even though you brush them off and chalk them up to Internet rage, it's still an uncomfortable feeling. Very.
violent. Physically. Regularly.
I used to actually argue with people on occasion that sports fans were *worse* than Star Trek fans when it came to statistics, performer's details and history. The mere suggestion cause me to simply back down just to avoid violence on occasion. Why? Because it's true. Makes many of them quite angry.
The article in question made me feel like we were being singled out pretty unfairly. What was said by some was nasty, but it didn't represent anything near a majority of fandom.
Outstanding essay on your part, and to be honest, I think you're spot on.
I had taken the assertions of the article at face value in terms of what was said on Twitter, etc. I should not have, and I'm glad you've made an attempt to set the record straight.
I agree on all points.
I really dig The Space Museum. Yeah, it's a little goofy, the villains and the rebels are all pretty tragically inept, and Vicki's ability to inspire sweeping change is thoroughly implausible, but I take that all as intentional, satirical/farcical content.
Does it move me that way that a few earlier stories and many later stories do? Does it engage and excite me like the very best of Who? Of course not. It's a silly little lark, one of the rare explorations of the "sideways" stories that were part of the show's early conception (and that didn't last much beyond The Mind Robber and Inferno), but it's amusing. And the first episode really is pretty delightful - if anything, the rest of it suffers primarily in comparison to that great start.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Fist fights in after-hours hotel rooms over disagreements about the plausibility of matter/antimatter cold mixing. Encounters between TNG and SCA roleplayers that didn't know enough to just walk away...
Fan is derivative of FANATIC. Granted, some are more fanatical then others, but we're all the same. Impassioned. Territorial. Protective. Possessive. And generally, we lack the well-honed sense of perspective of the general public.
There have even been rumors of small groups gathering to review 43-year old episodes with a critical eye...
We are who we are, and after doing it, for one series or another, for nearly 40 years, I'm rather proud of it; of all of us. Of series and writers and producers who can pull together a long string of episodes that can enthrall an audience to a deep reaction. That's magic. That is the soul of storytelling.
The article suggest only that it is fandom to blame - this is not true. Anyone who was around before the advent of the Internet, and especially the GUI WWW, remember a more tempered version of fandom - we were grateful simply to find a random colony of similar spirits. A place where a Real Geek could belong - an oasis in a world of normality.
The Internet brings an entirely new dynamic. God knows anybody who has wandered this site knows that SOME BASTARDS NEED TO BE HEARD BECAUSE, LIKE THE WHOS ON HORTON'S DANDELION THEY NEED SOMEONE TO HEAR THEM - THEY'RE HERE! THEY'RE HERE!! THEY'RE HERE!!! FACT!!!! It's much more about having a voice and using it - about asserting themselves in a huge world where they find themselves capable of being noticed and heard. Especially if they behave badly.
Back in My Day, you whippersnapper, being a douche was far more trouble than it was worth. Your words traveled no further than your pen could push them - most often to the desks of bored secretaries, who would toss your rant in a trashcan by the time they finished the first sentence. Crackpots were crackpots, and they didn't usually have their very own megaphones and lecterns to spew from. The necessity to be heard, to stay connected, made mannered speech and tact an important tool to master. Today, the opposite is true: it's the loutish word and the shocking attack that gets noticed.
You need to be loud to stand out in a crowd.
I don't know what a Fern Britton is; I don't really care. I don't care about her opinions on scifi or breakfast cereal. But one thing is apparent, just from the short mention of her in the article - at some point, she saw fit to spew off her opinion of scifi. As if her opinion mattered.
In essence, her comments, being *staggeringly ill informed if you're us* invited trog flamewar. It's not 1970 anymore; there are plenty of people out there willing to put on their asbestos undies and play internet tough guy just for the sport in it. If things got too tough for her, then she should have considered the costs of bear-bating before she stood on her soap box and cast the first stone.
The Internet. It's one hell of a leveled playing field. It's the 21st century - every comment can become a thread. She wanted to piss on some cornflakes, and got a golden shower in return, from some lowlives with big mouths.
But blame the medium, not the fanbase. She was not attacked by the majority of fans. Probably not even a minority of them.
It would be helpful, in this case, to apply some of that well-honed sense of perspective we usually lack, and look at the situation logically. Not everyone is going to like everything. And now, anyone can tell everyone they don't like something - in graphic detail - with 30 minutes of spare time, an IP and a working keyboard. There's bound to be some anarchy and bad feeling.
Get over it.
That's the way things work nowadays.
Again, another story I have not seen, I am way behind on my Hartnell.
To those waiting for the next skit from me and Michael Breaux...I have no clue what the hold up is. I messaged Mike today, but have not heard back. I know his time can be limited, so I offered to have him send me his half of the skit and that I would edit it together...so, we will see what happens.
Now, as to the Babelcolour vid at the top, for some reason he blocked me on youtube, and I do not know why, I do not think I have even so much as commentated on any of his videos. Only thing I can think of is that he is or was in these Docbacks and I somehow rubbed him the wrong way. Oh well, not going to sweat it.
I must say, that is one reason I only really discuss Who here in the Docbacks. We have far more respect for each other and the show. We may not always agree, and we may not like every episode of the show ever produced, but we re all far more tolerant of differences than most forums. We know how to achieve common ground.
I started off as a New Who fan, when I first saw "Voyage of the Damned" . Watching that episode stemmed from a life long passion for the TITANIC, which got me into the wonderful world of maritime history. Anyone who has read my blog can attest to that, since I do monthly ship histories. Anyway, that special opened my eyes to Who. I knew about it growing up, even watched the tail end of a few episodes on PBS as a ten, mostly because Red Dwarf would be on after :P.
Watching all of the 9th and 10th Doctors soon followed, which lead me to tracking down the old Who episodes. Though the tone was different, I grew to love them more and more. To me there is no true "Bad Doctor" there are simply stories that did not turn out as well as we as fans would have liked, but I still find them entertaining and enjoyable.
I will continue to remain loyal to these Docbacks, the best place to discuss Doctor Who on the entire internet...Vive La Docbacks!
The DocBacks are unique. They have a positive tone and a desire by the people to keep it positive.
I've been banned on OutpostGallifrey (a few times through the years, but the one time which disgusted me the most was in the chatroom where I saw some real bad stuff, complained, was told I lied, got banned).
I do like the IanLevine forum and go there. It used to have more activity but not as much now after one person there ruined it for everyone (he was a mod who decided to try a take-over, and well, eventually led to a split). But I do like going there since I do learn things from Ian and others.
The DocBacks, however, remind me most of what I experienced the years I was on Prodigy and the Prodigy Who forums from about 1990 - 1992. The Prodigy people also connected like this and several of us met up at conventions. Good times!
Here is the link to my blog, you can click the follow button, or something, this way you will always be informed via email when I post a new entry. It has more than ship histories, since I started it to compare the best of a franchise to the worst, hence the name Best of/Worst of . I did post the link to my 3 part look at Doctor Who in the blog way back in the early days of our Docbacks. I have a few movie reviews on there as well. Feel free to check it all out, use the archive on the right of the page to navigate through everything. I think I am most proud of my look at the RMS OLYMPIC, that one seems to be some of my best work. Also, I got alot of positive feedback on my tribute to Freddie Mercury, which I wrote on the 20yr anniversary of his passing.
Anyway, here is the link :)
Thank you sir. It is how I feel. I usually post in Transformers forums, and I am a member of TFW2005, the Transformers website. I have noticed things there are getting bad however. Sometimes they try to run it like a police state, or, if you are not popular enough, you are simply ignored and your work shuffled to a different thread where no one will see it. I made a video that was partly a look at one of the TFW local meetus we have in Philadelphia, while also being a tribute to a friend that had passed away suddenly in September. Now when he passed, TFW had a front page article about him, yet most on the site hardly knew him. I was lucky to be counted amongst his friends, so that when his widow, whom I am also good friends with, wanted to make one of our meetups a small memorial to him, I asked her if I could film some of it to post on TFW, thinking it would get shared on the front page. Boy was I wrong, it got moved and buried, which almost made me leave TFW...
Here, I always feel welcomed, and whether it is my blog, or my silly videos where I dress up and act like the 11th Doctor, I am always treated warmly. I may not post as much as others, but I usually at least check in weekly :)
Thank you sir! I was never much into forums of any kind until recently, like in the last 3 years or so. Some I find ok, others I found to be just horrible. This one is definitely the cream of the crop.
As for Bablecolour...I have no idea...maybe it was a glitch, maybe he thought I was someone else, or maybe I crossed paths with him somewhere and he somehow did not like me. If he is in here, I would like to subscribe to him, but I cannot. Oh well, things like this happen.
I think he is on the Ian Levine forum. Or was at one point. Do you want me to ask him if he did something? He might not be on anymore, I don't know, but I think he was at one point.
And you are right. There are some ok ones. Ian Levine is, to me, the second best (no matter the problems) because it is based upon the love of Doctor Who from one major Doctor Who fan who helped save many lost episodes and has done much for the show (despite rampant trolling against him). Ian might sometimes show a temper, but it is after all the constant trolling, and so, I say just accept it and understand I will never be trolled like he has been.
Nonetheless, Prodigy and the DocBacks are the two times I felt there is a Doctor Who fandom which transcends all the bad of fandoms. Ian Levine's forum has some negative sides to it, though it is much much better than OG.
Nah, you do not have to talk to him, it really is not that important. I know there have been times in the past, inother forums, where I have rubbed people the wrong way...he might have been one of them, or maybe I did post a comment to one of his videos and he did not like it...it may just be a simple misunderstanding, but I really don't care...I have enough on my plate, since now I am part of 3 different youtube shows..yeah, the other day I was announced as the new Tuesday guy for the 5 Awesome Transformers Guys on youtube...not bad for a guy that just started making reviews 3 months ago
Create a new youtube account ;)
But ok, I was just willing to ask and see what's up. I expect it is a glitch. I don't think he is the type to block people from the little encounters I've had with him.
My youtube videos mostly are weak experiments of one kind or another, often with stop-motion.
My first DW stop-motion video I think was this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlIbxSrKq4k
You can use it to check the other videos under the account. Some are good, some are crap. I often was experimenting with one or another idea in them, and often, people don't know what it is I was experimenting with. And then I just got bored and stopped making the videos.
My favorite DW related stop-motion videos I did (there are others)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i09cfFY5_xU (Ash and the Doctor)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmyhjvNnqZ8 (Invid and a Dalek)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB9Pm-Ob3uw (Odd video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XlJ9RGVSHA (The Real Last Words of the Face of Boe)
Yes, there is a bit of humor behind it all, showing I'm not taking it serious.
I've just not felt doing much videos like this for a long time. I did in 2007, and a bit after that. I might one time again. It takes time and ideas. But I certainly wanted people to laugh, knowing I'm doing to stop-motion videos a 60s Doctor Who episode filmed today would do to Doctor Who ;) So, subscribing will probably produce nothing exciting.. don't know when I will add something new... but maybe one day. Here are a few more odd bits and pieces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFkP2bq_ar8 (Attack of the Spiderwoman)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkQn7XrmakY (God of all Daleks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNNkWizgqjw (Is this the end of the Doctor? )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P39oxHJsuvs (The Master has a bad day)
Some videos I did before a tripod, and it shows!
Darthdevious!! That blog is the BEST! You're an inspiration, genuinely. No, I'm serious. I'm actually setting up a blog now.
Hornorsilk!! Stop motion fun?? My kid and I used to do little stop motion films together, whenever we got the time. Love that stuff. And when I was a kid, I used to do claymation with super 8 cameras.
Hellraiser was one.
I just had to go full geek with it, as you can tell.
I did these years ago; no kids of my own, I often have to find things to do in a day to keep busy when I can't concentrate on the things which should keep me busy. Of course, I wish I had the family -- just never happened.
Comics up and down the land can and have called Fern Britton fat, often for no reason at all other than a cheap laugh and the fact that she is fat.
It's hardly fair to blame some Doctor Who fans for resorting to that.
Personally, you'll never convince me that JNT liked Doctor Who. But I never wrote anything about the man (positive or negative).
And the writer of the article mentions how the show went from the sublime to the ridiculous, and seems surprised that the fans would react negatively to this downgrade in quality.
I think the writer had a point he wanted to make, but couldn't even marshal some decent facts to support it. I think, in short, he's wrong and misinformed. But I'm not going to write him an angry letter explaining why, since so-called journos often measure the success of their piece not by its accuracy, but by how big a response it gets. That measures page views effectively, for them. And advertisers want eyeballs.
Only reason I'm writing this here at all, is that Man_Of_Vertue said he'd be interested in fan reaction to it.
Thanks for putting it out!
I especially enjoyed the *if that could only have died with Leslie Nielson* comment at the end and the reasons for the comment.
And yes, Q did get punched out by Avery Brooks in Deep Space 9 - Q liked it because Picard wouldn't ever get that physical. I guess they left Q out of the other shows because they didn't want him messing up their Dominion storylines (more likely Ron Moore decided to leave him with TNG and Voyager so that he didn't have to be bothered with it.
It was funny and touching and a pleasant way to spend an hour. The kids were good, the connection between Reg and Madge was emotional (I teared up several times like a little girl) and the Androzani Major team was pretty funny (Mother issues had me laughing out loud more than once.)
Sure, it was slight entertainment but Doctor Who at Christmas is never going to be hard sci-fi. And Matt Smith is just fantastic as an overgrown kid. And the story played by the rules, there was nothing in the resolution that was hinted at from the beginning, they didn't pull anything out of their hats at the last minute.
And they even followed through that at the end of Wedding of River Song, only River knew the truth and had to tell Amy and Rory and the Doctor didn't realize that so he felt like he had no family at Christmas. That was an awesome moment and well earned.
When I was looking over the Docback from Christmas, you'd think the Moff came by everyone's houses and pissed in their Christmas wine! Anyway, I liked it a lot. Well, fuck it, I liked it. Time to catch up on Sherlock this week.
Oh yeah, and why isn't there a talkback for Fringe? There's not a ton of geek shows on right now, how does that not qualify as cool enough for this board?
If anything, most of the complaints I've seen (and I'll agree with what was said on the latest Whotininnies podcast) was that while there are many good scenes in and of itself, the story as a whole didn't hang together well. It was a case of the whole being less than the sum of its parts. If anything, I'd say they're more sighs of regret than actual vitriol about the special. It's just that when you compare the 2011 Christmas Special to the 2010 Christmas special (which did hang together, and knocked it out of the park), people are disappointed that they couldn't get a classic of that magnitude again.
There have probably been one or two people saying it's utter crap, but you probably have those one or two people saying the same thing about Moffat's Who asa whole - you usually don't see these people posting a whole lot in the DocBacks since they seem to just want to complain about anything they can. I think if you took the people complaining about the special being complete crap, tied them down in chairs and propped their eyes open, then forced them to watch The Twin Dilemma, Timelash and Time and the Rani, they might revise their opinions of what total crap is. Better yet, force them to watch Jersey Shore or something of that ilk.
You've got almost a year's worth of future anyway to continue Whotininnies even if the Mayan prophecy is true. And if it is, there's something oddly comforting in the thought that the Earth might expire with the sound of a fart machine playing in the background...
...I assume Baker.
In any case..yes, quite right. The first episode WAS fairly good. Which is one of the reasons for my disdain of this one. Cheap CAN be good...and I really dig that you know those Mind Robber 'bots were on loan...but in this case I believe we start to see four actors standing on screen going "really?" as if the scripts were just handed to them on a napkin. Now..for The Chase we get to see Steven's appearance and RE-appearance. What do I mean there folks?
However.....gotta disagree with you here on one thing. Time and the Rani....an abomination. Twin Dilemma...not so bad. Then again, I am a Colin Baker apologist.
No need to be an apologist - I like Tom Baker. It's just some of the stories he was saddled with. I really liked Vengeance on Varos and his Dalek story, and even like The Two Doctors a lot more than it seems most people do. I don't even mind Pip and Jane Baker's first foray into Doctor Who (the last episode of Trial of a Time Lord, with *insert dramatic music cue here, add reverb on the following phrase* The Megabyte Modem-m-m-m-m-m-m *end reverb* as the weapon, and then Time and the Rani....). Colin Baker was really helped though by Big Finish - having his audio stories where he could fine tune the characterization better, generally having good stories (finally!) to work with and not having to see the fashion travesty that JN-T clothed him in (patterned undoubtedly after Nathan Turner''s Hawaiian shirts - why he didn't go with Baker's suggestion to clothe him in black I don't know) really helped him. I'm glad he got to do stories like Holy Terror, The One Doctor, the Wormery and, of course, having many wonderful stories with Evelyn Smythe as his companion.
That said, Twin Dilemma deserves all the scorn heaped on it. It IS so bad, especially compared to the story immediately preceding it. It's not just my opinion - when Doctor Who magazine did their Mighty 200 poll for all Doctor Who stories up through Planet of the Dead, once again Twin Dilemma came in last.
I love his Doctor.
Twin Dilemma? Not so much. I like the opening with the Doctor. I still like having an unofficial opening story being made of the TARDIS scenes from the Twin Dilemma being connected with "Summoned by Shadows." That to me would be a far superior opening.
But I love what they wanted to do with the 6th Doctor. I really do.
Big Finish has helped, though I fear, BF itself is getting tired as of late. I still will get the Doctor Who BF audios, but they need to do something to fix their current rut imo. It's not that it is bad, just it has become "meh" most of the time. There ARE very good BF audios, but I would see there are far more meh now than before. Alas.
When I was eleven, I thought it was awesome - Giant Gastropods! I just loved the words. Plus, I thought the Doc's relationship with Azmael was kind of touching.
I'll admit that I haven't watched it since then. And I'm unusual in old school Doctor Who-fandom, because I'm a Colin Baker apologist and a McCoy era-hater (not the actor, but his stories, except for Fenric - and that novelization was much better than the realization.)
And I see what people mean about the Christmas special, last year's story had a greater sense of actual menace while this one was just kind of a nice little fairy tale about the power of family. Great direction and effects, though. I'd put it just behind a Christmas Carol (some of the best dialogue we've ever had) and Christmas Invasion (which had Tennant's best delivery ever - "this hand's a fightin hand") for best specials.
With RTD most of the Christmas specials dealt with an invasion of Earth (interestingly, the one that gets slagged off the most - Voyage of the Damned - doesn't fit that mold).
Moffat has tried to be different with his Doctor Who Christmas stories. Neither one is an invasion of Earth (or an invasion, period). He's trying different things, trying to tie into people's memories of different Christmas-related stories (Narnia - close enough to a Christmas story). I won't be surprised if the next Christmas Special uses It's a Wonderful Life as a basis to riff from. Of course, I'd love to see them try to riff off of A Christmas Story. Imagine, Rory having a dream of wanting a Red Ryder BB Gun, with Madame Kovarian suddenly pop up to say *you'll shoot your eye out, kid*. Heck, if they ever do a Pond Family Christmas (Rory, Amy, River, the Doctor, Jenny and possibly Captain Jack) they could just slip that in as a slight comedy bit - or have it as a small sketch for Children in Need.
Your post reminded me of something I thought could be a fun Children in Need special. Put Matt Smith into the old TARDIS set, shoot it in black and white. Do a fully serious Doctor Who adventure that way, just a short story, set way back in the beginning as a sort of alternate universe story.
I've been imagining that more and more since watching all these old Hartnell episodes. I think it could be a blast to watch. Heck, even do it from the very beginning in the junk yard. The old set couldn't be THAT expensive to re-build.
The local Wal-Mart in Louisiana had some Tastykakes in. There's been brief times where they had some of the low calorie stuff in (orange fingers, low fat cupcakes), but this time Walmart had the holy grail in - Butterscotch Krimpets! They also had the limited edition black and white krimpets, and the chocolate Kandykakes. This HAS to be a sign of the Apocalypse as there's no other reason to explain why I can suddenly get such Philadelphia goodness down here in Louisiana.
I suspect this will be a one shipment trial, though, just to get my hopes up that they'll be stocking them regularly, just to taunt me later by not getting any more.
That reminds me - darthdevious, weren't you the one looking for jelly babies? Did you ever work out a jelly baby/ Tastykake Butterscotch Krimpet trade with Sam Jackson's Wig?
they (and Sue Vertue) are going to be at the MediaGuardian Edinburgh International Television Festival in August, giving a Sherlock Masterclass. That should be interesting, I hope they record it for inclusion as an extra for when they do Season 3 and put it out on disc.
I came across Butterscotch Krimpets for the first time in Publix in Florida last weekend. Remembering your your recommendation, I decided to try them and quite enjoyed them!
What can it mean that they have come this far south?
Sadly no, since I have no money to send anything anywhere, let alone overseas. If I had the money, I would send SJW as many Tastycakes as he could stomach, lol, but I am poor...but, such is life :) See, you have to move back this way, to stop the Apocalypse :P
Busy week so far. I hope everyone is well.
I'll be around this weekend.
(using great new writing tool that I think caractacuspotts originally told me about and I am LOVING IT! I'm getting so much writing done now. So.. thank you caractacuspotts if you were the one. If not, whoever told me about it...THANKS. It's called Scrivener. http://www.literatureandlatte.com/index.php )
I was up there for Christmastime, and will be up that way next Christmastime, so I should be up there on the day the world ends (if the Mayans were right) - we'll see if that's enough to avert the Apocalypse. Personally, my plan is to not let any trivial things like the Apocalypse get in the way of enjoying next year's Doctor Who Christmas special.
From the Doctor Who News Page:
The Doctor Who Experience have announced a new item of merchandise, now available from their shop:
Kid's Cyberman Hoody
SCARE your friends by impersonating one of the Doctor's most persistent enemies with this exclusive Doctor Who Experience hoody! Available in cotton-rich light grey and featuring the iconic Cyberman face imprinted on a breathable mesh sewn into the hood, this limited-run hoody sports the Doctor Who Experience logo on the left chest and incorporates a clever 'hidden' full-length front zip to complement the design. The mesh face even allows the wearer to see out whilst wearing it, so unlike the Daleks your vision won't be impaired!
The Cyberman hoody is machine washable and available in the following sizes:
Small – up to 26" Chest
Medium - up to 28" Chest
Large – up to 32" Chest
Why do I get this mental image of a gang roaming the streets with the cybermasks showing?
It's called, "The Decoy Bride" or "Aobyuka Gar Hebecebl" depending on which DVD cover you look at and which country you're in. LOL It's a romantic comedy drama, he plays a guy who's not sure if he should get marry. Alice Eve is also in this movie, if she's the one he's not sure of, he's crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oooh, Kelly Macdonald is in it, too. I fell in love with her when I watched Choke. She was fantastic in it. Pretty good in Boardwalk Empire, too. But I get bored with that show pretty fast, sadly.
The Decoy Bride could be a fun movie. Can't wait to see it.
Looks kinda adorable, doesn't it?
On "The Big Bang Theory", The gang were watching "Doctor Who" midway thur the show, Penny, of course, walked out in the middle of it. And, Gotilk, you may not remember, but, I think you got me hooked on the show. Unless I'm wrong, which I usually am. LOL
I guess adorable is the best word I could come up with to describe a rom-com that looks like it might work. I think they're shooting for that. Yeah, not the best word.
If I didn't like the cast so much, I'd probably skip it.
right now, Amazon says they have 6 people selling new copies starting at $30, 1 collectible copy at $25, and 14 used copies starting at $4.99 (+$3.99 shipping). I'd say go for one of the used copies. Don't get ripped off paying $258.