Ain't It Cool News (www.aintitcool.com)
Coaxial

'The Almost People' Grace This Weekend's DOCTOR WHO!! READER REACTION Here!!

 

 

 

Merrick here...

Saturday brings U.K. viewers "The Almost People" - the continuation of last week's "The Rebel Flesh" and a segue into "A Good Man Goes To War," our final episode before the impending mid-Season/Series break. 

If you were like me, and felt that "The Rebel Flesh" was a bit dull and unengaging, you'll most likely find a greater appreciation for this installment.  "The Almost People" is brisker, more emotional, more substantive and more nuanced than its "Rebel Flesh" progenitor  (be sure to watch The Doctor's face while he's dealing with his Ganger self, and vice-versa.  Their sense of mutual self-satisfaction is priceless...) 

Performances feel more well rounded, more fully charged, and are well-considered here - editing, direction, and writing have a decidedly stronger pulse as well.  While TAP never matches the highest standards of post-2005 DOCTOR WHO, it still emerges as a worthy and admirable entry into the WHOverse, resolves "The Rebel Flesh" adequately enough so that a bitter, icky taste isn't left behind, and is a compelling ramp-up to next week's installment...beyond which lies The Void.

"The Almost People" premieres Saturday May 28 in the U.K. and on the evening of Saturday June 4 at 9/8c on BBC AMERICA here in The States. 

NOTE: BBC America is airing a grand marathon of DOCTOR WHO Season/Series Five and Six episodes tomorrow (May 28) - pretty much throughout the day.  I don't think they have all eps from those Seasons/Series in rotation, but a good number of them are represented.  May be an awesome opportunity to catch up if you're behind, or just getting into the show...

 

 

SPEAKING OF THE VOID...

We'll be continuing these weekly DOCTOR WHO dedicated Talkbacks through the hiatus. QUESTION: given that there will be no new episodes for a bit, thus our Talkbacks won't be governed by time sensitivity, would you folks like us to launch Void Talkbacks on Fridays just as we've been doing?  Or, would launching them earlier in the week make more sense?  Sound-off below and  we'll make it happen.

During The Void, we'll be discussing a variety of WHO-related matters, including (but by no means limited to)...

  • The episodes which got me hooked on...and made me fall madly in love with...DOCTOR WHO as a whole.  A small hint:  two friends, presumably working independently, guilted me into trying two Tennant-era episodes.  One said, "If you don't like ____ and ___ you're dead inside."  He was a bastard, and he was right. 
  • We'll poke at Peter Cushing's bizarro-verse DW big screen films.  One of them, DR. WHO AND THE DALEKS, is available FREE, LEGALLY, and ONLINE HERE
  • We'll argue about which Doctor is the best Doctor, and I'll be right. 
  • If any of you have any DW-related subject you'd like to see explored in this time (or at any time), drop me a line and we'll see what we can do...
  • We'll look comprehensively at recently released, and soon-to-be-released, "classic" DOCTOR WHO DVDs and Blu-Rays.  "Time And The Rani" - oh my.  Which brings me to..

 

 

SEEKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR "CLASSIC" EPISODES...

Please bear with me here, I'm learning as I go. 

Over the decades I've seen a smattering of "classic" DOCTOR WHO episodes - but not to any significant degree.  Having watched every episode since 2005 (literally, everything), I'm now backtracking and  wondering:  which "classic" episodes should I take a look at?  Which "classic" episodes would you recommend I seek out first?  Which episodes should be seen, even if they're not necessarily 'good'?  Which "classic" episodes contribute the most to DW's overall mythos?  Etc.  Thanks so much, in advance, for any thoughts and recommendations you may have...

 

 

SPECIAL SPOILER WARNING FOR U.S. READERS

BBC America has delayed broadcast of  "The Almost People" by one week to accommodate an anticipated drop in viewership over the Memorial Day holiday here in The States.  The episode will, however, air in the U.K. Saturday May 28 as anticipated. 

As such, and quite naturally, this Talkback will become a SPOILER ZONE when the episode airs in the U.K. tomorrow evening (late tomorrow morning U.S. time). U.S. viewers shuld tread carefully 'round/after tomorrow (Saturday May 28) morning. 

BBCA airs 'The Almost People' next Saturday (June 4)  - 9/8c.    When the episode broadcasts, this Talkback will once more be made available to U.S. viewers.  Check next week's "A Good Man Goes To War" Talkback for a direct link. YES, it's feasible to have two DOCTOR WHO Talkbacks on AICN's Top Talkbacks sidebar - how cool would that be?    

 

 

--- follow Merrick on Twitter ! ---

 

 

coming next week:

"A Good Man Goes To War"

 

 

See DOCTOR WHO  Season/Series Six Episode 1  - "The Impossible Astronaut"  - in HD HERE and standard def HERE.  

See "Day of The Moon" - the second installment of the season premiere linked above - in HD HERE and standard def HERE.  

Episode 3 - "The Curse Of The Black Spot" - can be found in HD HERE or standard def HERE.

Episode 4 - "The Doctor's Wife"  - is available HERE in HD, while standard def is availabe HERE

Episode 5 - "The Rebel Flesh" - can be seen HERE in HD, or viewed in standard def HERE

Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus
    + Expand All
  • It's such an overdone 90's X-Files stereotype that it just grinds an episode to a halt. Doctor Who is a show about ideas, not lackluster suspense.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Blimey....

    by JaNath

    .....I'm first. Although my wife says that's just being selfish. Who needs to be fun again. That's all I have to say. Ooohhh...except, also, I have learned today that there is a patron saint of genital diseases, and his name is St Vitalis of Assisi.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:18 a.m. CST

    doctor_strangepork - amy has been quite the topic of conversation lately...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...hopefully she will get a little better as time goes on... ...the show and her story demands it!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:19 a.m. CST

    janath - second, mate..... you lasted a little longer this time.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Unfortunately my fast fingers only took me to third (base...) and some would say that is more than enough!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:20 a.m. CST

    LET THE DOCBACK COMMENCE!!!!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Don't forget about the companions

    by ames prather

    If you're going to be discussing the merits of each Doctor, you really should give space to his various companions. Each one has had a part in making each Doctor who he was (i.e. Tom Baker's Doctor dealing with not being able to save Adric). Just a thought. ??Pseudo?? Out.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Merrick- come on mate! We are ALWAYS number one!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Going for the two-fer jus seems like the natural progression of things! By the way, THANKS A MILLION for the regular time lord flavoured DocBacks! We all appreciate it!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Sam Jacksons Wig...

    by JaNath

    ... I was faking it to make everyone else feel better. I was thinking about SG1 all the time to hold me back.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:24 a.m. CST

    Adric - bitch got what was coming to him

    by penhapus

    can we discuss that?

  • ...with sprinkles. The upskirt pic in last weeks docback was simply delightful...

  • May 27, 2011, 11:27 a.m. CST

    janath - that would do it!!! I wouldn't even get to the vinegar strokes...

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 11:28 a.m. CST

    All Watched Over By Machines Of Loving Grace

    by rosasaks

    Is the best sci-fi series on British TV

  • May 27, 2011, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Peri

    by JaNath

    Red bikini, sea, wet. Spit image of my first serious gf a few years later. Aaahhhhhh....lost youth.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:29 a.m. CST

    penhapus - I'm sure Matthew Waterhouse wouldn't agre with you!!! ;)

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 11:31 a.m. CST

    janath - Peri, nude, legs akimbo...... penis cut off by wife.....

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Oh, completely unrelated- Happy Birthday Vincent Price!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    A true classic if there ever was one!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:35 a.m. CST

    All Watched Over By what the tv license can produce....

    by JaNath

    ......cos that was / is just awesome and would never see the light of day, let alone on primetime on the 2nd BBC channel. Bitch about the fee, lose stuff like this. Wish I'd fuckin' understood it though. ;-)

  • May 27, 2011, 11:37 a.m. CST

    Hey, Sam Jackson....

    by JaNath

    ......Peri had a penis that was cut off by my wife? Whhhhaaaaattttt? Wait a minute......ok..........a little pervy.....Peri and my wife..........ok, ok, ok. TY Sam Jackson. That's one for the weird account in my bank.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:38 a.m. CST

    A dric MUST have had a huge effect on the Doctors Psyche..

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...after all, he wouldn't go back in time to save him, a decision he obviously regretted and one that ate away at him. His name was also the last word that Peter Davidson said before he regenerated. It was actually quite refreshing taking this into consideration when looking at Tennants actions in the Waters of Mars.... oh how the Doctor changed!!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:38 a.m. CST

    By the end of tomorrow... (SPOILERS)

    by Kelvington

    those that are not Karen fans, might just say, "eh, let her go!" after she gets idnappedkay. (It's not a spoiler if it's in pig-latin) If you think this is a long talk-back wait until next Sunday! Holy shit will that one be long! I'm talking Tommy Lee long!

  • ...and the cruel cow would have waited until I was just about to pop the cork.....

  • May 27, 2011, 11:43 a.m. CST

    kelvington- I agree about the shit that's coming!

    by sam jacksons wig

    I now, however, refuse to mention anything spoilerific as I have (as well as others) had as bit of erm.... criticism previously. But, yes, the DocBack with what is on the way will be fucking HUGE!!!!

  • This would give us more time to kick back, relax and just chat away!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:50 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig ... I've never dropped a name before...

    by Kelvington

    but I had Vincent Price cook me dinner once! He used to be a gourmet chef and and gourmet clubs all over the country in his later years would have him come in and cook for a small group of people and show them how it was done. My mom was at the time in one of these clubs in Ohio, and she said VP was coming in to cook for them. I begged her to let me go in her place, she finally acquiesce and as a very young man I went in her stead. So there I was the only man in a group of older women, while VP cooked an amazing meal for us. I was the only one he talked shop with! The others just thought he was some kind of galloping gourmet. But I knew he was Vincent Fucking Price. I asked him about how long it took to get his throat to do those great gestures in the Dr Phibes movies, and he smiled and said... "Weeks! They would play back my lines over a speaker and I would over act the hell out of my throat and only a handful of people ever noticed." After that the ladies just kept drinking their wine, and I just kept listening to his amazing stories. One of the best nights of my life!

  • May 27, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Merrick- recommendation of classic Who...

    by sam jacksons wig

    The Talons of Weng-Chiang- Tom Baker in Victorian London in a Charlie Chan styl-ee (just get over the extra large rat/hampster monsters and you'll enjoy it alot!) Inferno- Jon Pertwee at his very best, with an ecological message to boot! Genesis of the Daleks- Tom Baker sent to Skaro, home of the Daleks.... fucking great episode this one!!! Those should get you started. My fellow DocBackers will no doubt chime in with their faves!! Oh, a check out the Sylvester McCoy episode entitled the Curse of Fenric .......

  • May 27, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST

    It's not that the Doctor COULDN'T go back and save Adric

    by penhapus

    He just couldn't be bothered; one less whiny boy sidekick to share all the intergalactic totty with.

  • As I sit here and type I am watching Dr Phibes!!!! (no shit!!) Growing up, I loved him and his works- my favourite being Witchfinder General. You are a lucky fucker my friend!!!!

  • May 27, 2011, noon CST

    Thanks sam jacksons wig... Level Up! +100 XP! LOL

    by Kelvington

  • And as it had to do with the meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs then yes, that would have been a monumental fuck up.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Dicks-o-cock-sucker..... I know how we can revive stargate!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Take a huge steaming shit in the middle of a slag heap and cover it with vomit!!! Hey presto!! Now fuck off and don't come back you prick.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Beware of BBC America

    by berserkrl

    "BBC America is airing a grand marathon of DOCTOR WHO" Problem is, when they air reruns they (without warning) cut them shorter, often *drastically* shorter, and sometimes cutting out some of the most famous scenes. (When they reran "Last of the Time Lords," one of the scenes they cut out was the Master's song & dance number at the beginning. The whole thing, gone. When they reran "The Eleventh Hour," they cut out most of the scenes that were foreshadowings for the rest of the season.) They don't do that to first-run episodes, so you're safe watching those; but keep their treatment of reruns in mind in deciding whether to catch up on a show by watching their marathons.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:12 p.m. CST

    @pseudosenjambedlogin

    by berserkrl

    "Each one has had a part in making each Doctor who he was (i.e. Tom Baker's Doctor dealing with not being able to save Adric)." Adric's death occurred after Tom Baker had left the show. It was during Peter Davison's era.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST

    berserkrl- glad I live in jolly old England!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Terry Molloy cooked me a BBQ once.

    by Seph_J

    Not true, by the way.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    classic DW must see

    by MichaelH

    Any of the Douglas Adams shows, most especially the unfinished "Shada". Any of the multiple Doctor stories: The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors, The Two Doctors. The last Tom Baker and first Peter Davison episodes. First K9 "The Invisible Enemy", is excellent despite the lack of modern special effects (memory may be playing tricks). "Remembrance of the Daleks" and Ace's baseball bat.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    seph- oooh you trickster, you!!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    no Cushing movie outside US

    by Oneiros42

    Youtube has blocked the Cushing Who movie in Canada. :(

  • The War Games- Patrick Troughtons last gap as the time lord before Jon Pertwee. Planet of the Spiders- Jon Pertwees lat gasp as the time lord before Tom Baker.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:28 p.m. CST

    oneiros- not outside of US- just Canada....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ..blame Bryan Adams!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Seeds of Doom

    by crooney

    I recently watched this Tom Baker story on DVD and thought it held up pretty well. That's a great classic ep to check out!

  • May 27, 2011, 12:38 p.m. CST

    CLASSIC WHO

    by Seph_J

    If you want to condense all of classic Who down into a more manageable list, this is my suggestion for a list of 40 must-see stories. For someone wanting to be well versed in Who history, I think if you watched all these in order, you'd have a good understanding of The Master, Omega, Sontarans, Daleks, Autons, regeneration, Timelords, Gallifrey, and a good sampling of each of the doctors too: An Unearthly Child The Mutants (The Daleks) The Dalek Invasion of Earth The Time Meddler The Tenth Planet The Tomb of the Cybermen The Invasion The War Games Spearhead from Space Terror of the Autons The Daemons The Sea-Devils Frontier in Space Planet of the Daleks The Time Warrior Planet of the Spiders Genesis of the Daleks The Brain of Morbius The Deadly Assassin The Talons of Weng-Chiang The Invasion of Time City of Death Warriors Gate The Keeper of Traken Logopolis Castrovalva Earthshock Arc of Infinity The Five Doctors Resurrection of the Daleks The Caves of Androzani Revelation of the Daleks Trial of a Timelord - Mindwarp Trial of a Timelord - The Ultimate Foe Remembrance of the Daleks The Happiness Patrol The Greatest Show in the Galaxy Ghostlight The Curse of Fenric Doctor Who (Paul McGann movie) Would love to see everyone elses list of 40 must-sees, designed to give a newcomer a well-rounded basis of the show and bring them adequately up to speed.

  • May 27, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Who page on BBC website

    by penhapus

    is *REALLY* spoiler-y; especially as it mainly concerns episode 7... are they worried about ratings?

  • May 27, 2011, 12:40 p.m. CST

    seph- you've too much time on your hands!!! ;)

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    Seph

    by penhapus

    quite like the daleks then? ;)

  • May 27, 2011, 12:46 p.m. CST

    well, I like 'Remembrance' a lot, and to understand

    by Seph_J

    the Imperial and Renegade war, you need to go back a couple of Dalek stories really. And the early Dalek stories are classics, as is Genesis. I also didn't like having THREE Troughton/Cybermen stories in a row, but they do happen to each be really good. There's also a big GUARDIAN shaped hole in the list.. but that's my list and I'm sticking to it ;)

  • May 27, 2011, 12:48 p.m. CST

    penhapus- just a bit of hype for the mid season break is all!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 27, 2011, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Merrick...watch the Key to Time season arc

    by Sequitur

    Tom Baker as the Doctor, Romana and an episode written by Douglas Adams!

  • May 27, 2011, 12:55 p.m. CST

    The Caves of Androzani...must see.

    by Sequitur

    Maybe best DW story ever.

  • May 27, 2011, 1:01 p.m. CST

    The Caves of Androzani. All I can remember...

    by MichaelH

    is Peri's cleavage at the end. Worth viewing.

  • ....change my dear, and not a MOMENT too soon!!!!!!!!!! Good stuff, but then downhill from there.

  • I always liked the Black Guardian trilogy. Pyramids of Mars is excellent. Despite it's many failings, the Trial of a Time Lord is worth watching to learn about the Valyard, and how corrupt the Time Lords had become. Curse of Fenric and Remembrance of the Daleks are some of McCoys best. The Five Doctors, while being a nostalgic mess, introduces the idea that Rassilon was immortal, and not necessarily a nice guy.

  • May 27, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    This is the kind of shit that encourages piracy.

    by Robert79797979

    Thanks a lot ,BBC:America, for being just as greedy as American broadcasting companies.

  • May 27, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    SPOILERS - 10 Teasers from Digital Spy

    by TheFerretLives

    1. There's fleeting cameos (of sorts) from both Tom Baker and David Tennant. 2. "I'll break out the big guns." 3. Listen carefully - the two Doctors briefly discuss an old foe... 4. The two Jennifers engage in a fight to the death. 5. "Being almost The Doctor's like being no Doctor at all." 6. Amy finally shares a secret with her Time Lord chum. 7. The Doctor's old alias 'John Smith' gets another outing. 8. Watch out for the red balloons. 9. "**** Amy, but only when *** ***** *** too." 10. The final scenes are every bit as mind-blowing and game-changing as Moffat and co. would have you believe!

  • May 27, 2011, 1:49 p.m. CST

    ferret

    by Seph_J

    are they for ep6 or 7?

  • May 27, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    seph_j for ep6

    by TheFerretLives

  • May 27, 2011, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Thanks Merrick

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Its great seeing somebody finding Who and having all that back story to catch up on. I think the one thing you probably have to think about is seeing a few episodes of each Doctor to get a feel for the character as many times the transition to a new personality is one of the startling successes of Who. Grumpy Old Man Galactic Hobo Debonaire Adventurer Alien Nutter Fallible Professor Arrogant Twat Clown with a Dark side Debonair Byronic type Gritty grief ridden angry man Light hearted talky human ferret Cool dude whose always got a plan Seph, thats great list. I have fond memories of The Pyramids of Mars as well. Must say I've been catching up on the Curse of Fenric on Youtube and its a little bit naff--so not sure about that one.

  • May 27, 2011, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Don't know if it's a 'classic' episode, but...

    by BiggusDickus

    ...'The Seeds of Doom' scared the crap out of me when I was eight. Like kids looking sideways at statues after 'Blink', bushes shaking in the wind gave me the willies for months after that one!

  • May 27, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Hottest Companion Talkback?

    by thedarklingthrush

    I dunno it might be to soon to do this since obviously Young Liz Sladen and Old Liz Sladen would both be high seeds in that tournament. I'm overly cautious on such matters though, so maybe it's ok?

  • May 27, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Skip the BBCAmerica Telethon as broadcast

    by DoctorTom

    If you want to make sure you get the complete story, skip the BBCAmerica broadcast. They do, however, have all of season 5 and season 6 so far (except for the last Christmas special) posted up in their BBC America On Demand section in the video on demand area. <br> What's really interesting is that even though my area doesn't carry the HD version of BBC America, the HD versions of episodes are available through the on demand section.

  • May 27, 2011, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Also, for classic episodes, start with City of Death

    by DoctorTom

    Written by Douglas Adams, this was the high point of classic Who. <br> RTD used this story to show around to other people as the blueprint for what he wanted to do with Doctor Who. (Well, this episode and presumably a couple episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer...)

  • May 27, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Classic Who...

    by Vriley2000

    2leggedfreak: Nice list! I've described them this way: The Crotchety Old Man The Clown Judo-Chopping Dandy The Eccentric Bohemian The Youthful Cricket Player Schizo Evil Mystery Man Byronic Hero The Haunted Traveler The Lonely God The Madman with a Box As for the specific Adventures... I agree with a few others: Genesis of the Daleks is a good spot, as RTD said its the beginning of the Time War. I'd also hit up The Talons of Weng-Chiang and City of Death. (All 3 are Tom Baker ones) I myself haven't seen a whole lot of the first three... and what I have has been... eh. (Just my opinion... I'm not hating.) For Davidson... Earthshock. (Most shocking ending of any of the classic series) Also Caves of Androzani, his final (and a transition to Colin Baker). He even finally explains why he wears celery. For Colin Baker... another I wasn't too crazy about, personally... but grab a few early ones with Peri. Because DAMN, she's cute. (Still holds up, too!) For McCoy... Remembrance of the Daleks (a big strike in the Time War) and The Curse of Fenric. I'd also recommend Ghost Light... if for nothing else but it was the final serial filmed of the old series. (And the final scene they filmed of that was an interesting and sweet goodbye, even if it was unintentional.) "Wicked Girl..." That's my 2 cents.

  • May 27, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST

    theferretlives the 9th item...

    by Kelvington

    9. "**** Amy, but only when *** ***** *** too." 9. "Fuck Amy, but only when she tells you too." I'm almost 2% sure that's correct! LOL Maybe it's KILL

  • May 27, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST

    my random list

    by berserkrl

    Here are some of my favourites. But I'm sure I'm forgetting some that I may well like better than some I've put on here. From the Jon Pertwee era: - Spearhead From Space - Ambassadors of Death [an underrated gem] From the Tom Baker era: - Robot - Genesis of the Daleks - Talons of Weng-Chiang From the Peter Davison era: - The Caves of Androzani From the Christopher Eccleston era: - Dalek [the best Dalek episode ever] - The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances From the David Tennant era: - Blink - The Sound of Drums [the middle episode of a 3-parter, but the best of those 3] - Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead - Midnight From the Matt Smith era: - The Eleventh Hour - Vincent and the Doctor - The Doctor's Wife

  • May 27, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    What this season needs is three things

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    1) More British historical figures, that pitiful attempt at the pirate episode doesn't count. I'm American but I would much rather they meet someone like Dickens or Christie than a President. 2) Rory stop almost-dying every episode. 3) Moffat to give the Sherlock series to someone else and focus the hell on his day job.

  • May 27, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Favorite Classic DW eps & Hot companions

    by Jawsh Murdock

    I agree with 2Legged... Curse of the Fenric is kind of dull for me. But Remembrance of the Daleks is a great McCoy story and Ace is amazing. Hottest of the companions? I like Ace! She's hot and useful. She's what I wish Amy Pond was more like. Amy is pretty as well, but she's no where near as cool as Ace. Also, I really like Zoey from Troughton episodes. Her glittering space suit rocks. Episodes I recommend (that I haven't seen mentioned): Mind Robber- fun Troughton romp Spearhead from Space- Doctor 3's great entrance... which isn't all that dissimilar to that of Matt Smith's entrance, and establishes Autons (and the "handgun"). It's a must see DW story The Green Death- Doctor 3 vs. Maggots! Yay! The Carnival of Monsters- a bit silly, but I love the idea of this story... so creative an inventive. I wish modern DW ep's were more like this one. This episode with modern tech would be awesome. Ark in Space- A favorite of mine from the Tom Baker Era City of Death- A great Douglas Adam's episode from the Tom Baker era featuring a cameo by John Clesse. I pretty much agree with the other lists. Talon is a must see. As for Shada- it's a cool story, but the DVD isn't that great for me. I prefer the audio drama with Paul McGann playing the 8th Doctor and Lalla Ward returning as Romana. It's a fun listen.

  • May 27, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Former Doctor Cameos upcoming? nah...

    by Jawsh Murdock

    I bet the David Tennant and Tom Baker "cameos" are nothing more than what we saw on "The Eleventh Hour," pictures in his memories or on a screen of some sort. Neither actor will have filmed anything most likely. Baker still has the "voice," (his narration is one of my favorite parts of Little Britian) but he got huge, and his curly hair is now white and straight. I doubt even the X-Men/Tron 2 Youthifying Fx can bring back young Baker.

  • May 27, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Wow! Three bottles of wine in, and some classic WHO on the telly!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Well, technically on DVD but the same thing!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    City of Death

    by TheFerretLives

    Is the serial when Tom Baker and Lalla Ward fell in love and soon after got married... .. before getting divorced after only a year and Lalla Ward finally ending up marrying that knob Richard Dawkins. F

  • I think more of a mention to previous incarnations and adventures, and also some other things that I cnnot mention for spoilerish actitvites.

  • May 27, 2011, 3:29 p.m. CST

    Zygons

    by TheFerretLives

    Terror of the Zygons is worth a look even if it is just for the bizarre mix of good make up effects for the Zygons and awful effects for the "loch ness monster" - like a walking stick with googly eyes! I actually think Zygons would make a good comeback alien for the new series, they looked pretty cool back then so with today's make up and effects they'd look great. F

  • May 27, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    My top Ten Hot Companions

    by Jawsh Murdock

    I'm leaving out the companions that were in one shot story lines like Kylie Minogue & Michelle Ryan (who could easiliy top this list) and I'm going with mostly longer term compaions: 1. Ace 2. Zoey 3. Peri 4. Amy 5. Martha 6. Jo 7. Rose 8. Nyssa 9. Vicki 10. Sarah Jane

  • May 27, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Christopher Eccleston's 9th Doctor

    by berserkrl

    Re vriley2000's "Haunted Traveler" and 2leggedfreak's "Gritty grief ridden angry man" -- I think people are remembering him as more angry/gloomy than he actually was. It's true that when he was angry/gloomy he was VERY angry/gloomy, and I think that's affecting people's memory; but*most* of the time he was the goofy grin, sense of adventure, and yelling "fantastic!"

  • May 27, 2011, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Peter Cushing Who

    by HornOrSilk

    I liked it for what it is. I want it on Blu Ray. I also wanted Christopher Lee to do a "Power of the Daleks" story to continue with the Cushing Lee series. Alas, I doubt we will get it since Lee doesn't like Doctor Who.

  • May 27, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Thoughts/speculations

    by HornOrSilk

    I've had an odd thought the other day. What if the Doctor's death creates a time paradox in which the Time Lords come back into existence, but when they come back into existence, one of them wants to save the Doctor and make sure he lives?

  • May 27, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Classic Who

    by HornOrSilk

    The stories one must watch and see: The Daleks The Aztecs Tomb of the Cybermen War Games Inferno The Three Doctors Time Warrior Genesis of the Daleks Talons of Weng-Chiang City of Death Keeper of Traken Logopolis Castrovalva Kinda Mawdryn Undead Frontios Caves of Androzani Vengeance on Varos Curse of Fenric Survival

  • May 27, 2011, 3:59 p.m. CST

    My theory (spoiler if it turns out right, probably not though!)

    by TheFerretLives

    I still think the fact that the Doctor was allowed to start regenerating before being killed properly and the regen energy disappeared is important and I reckon that:- a) the Doctor is mortally wounded or somehow deprived of his regen energy and because Amy, Rory and River know where they'll meet the Doc 200 years in the future they turn up at the lake with the Tardis invisible just inside the lake. They also remembered that the spacesuit from the opening episodes kept the girl alive they put the Doc in it and it is HE who shoots HIMSELF so he can get the regen energy, just enough to bring him back to life. They'll have to sort out what to do about him in 200 years at a later date. The future doc obviously already knows this will happen that's why he said he was tired of running. b) either that or the clone Doctor, because he can't regenerate, does it to get the regen power. Remember that the Doc asked the spaceman to put up his visor but then said something like it didn't matter cos he knew who it was or something like, "of course". The little girl has nowt to do with it apart from the fact that her story arc started then. Just thinking out loud but I think it stands up pretty well. F

  • May 27, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    ferret.... how about this? (theoretical spoilers)

    by sam jacksons wig

    "'I've been running all my life..." NOT being said by the real Doc but the clone Doc, and the real Doc being under the visor......

  • May 27, 2011, 4:22 p.m. CST

    jawshco - a hottest companion list without Tegan?

    by BiggusDickus

    You, sir, are patently unwell.

  • May 27, 2011, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Classic Who

    by The_Mad_Groper

    As a poor American, I had to watch The Doctor on PBS (One of the few things I think them for!) and they never seemed to run them in any kind of order. Regardless of that, the whole argument of who the best Doctor is I think comes down to who was your FIRST Doctor. And since mine was The 4th, he has a very special place in my heart! I loved his entire run! My list of the Best Doctors 1. Tom Baker 2. Matt Smith / David Tennant (Tie) 3. Jon Pertwee 4. Peter Davidson Although I will make one codicil to this list and that is that I haven't seen enough of the 1st Doctor to really make a call on him. I wish there was more film available! Shows to see 1. Genesis of the Daleks (One of the best episodes ever!) 2. The Talons of Weng-Chiang (Thank God Disney doesn't own the rights to The Doctor or this would end up in the vaults like Song of the South!) 3. Robot ( 4th Doctor's Beginning) 4. Anything with The Master! (Specially when he's all fucked up like a zombie!) And as far as companions go... Why no love for Leela? Running around in that tight lil outfit... ~sighs~ Those were the days!

  • May 27, 2011, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Sexy Companion? Leela

    by stv

    Why no love for Tom Baker's Leela? an untameable Susan Jameson in a leather loincloth and a big knife.

  • May 27, 2011, 4:35 p.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by TheFerretLives

    Yeah that was my other idea, but I keep thinking of SM saying categorically that it was the Doctor not a clone. F

  • May 27, 2011, 4:35 p.m. CST

    question about Leela

    by berserkrl

    There's a widespread tendency to refer to Leela's outfit as a "leather bikini." Even Amy Pond does so in the second "Meanwhile in the TARDIS" short. Yet to my recollection Leela never wore a bikini, leather or otherwise. What's up with that? Is it wishful thinking or what?

  • May 27, 2011, 4:40 p.m. CST

    My favourite (read: most hot) female companions:

    by Seph_J

    1) Sarah Jane 2) Nyssa 3) Susan Foreman 4) Peri Brown 5) Amy Pond 6) Leela 7) Jo Grant 8) Zoe Heriot 9) Ace (Dorothy) 10) Romana II

  • May 27, 2011, 4:46 p.m. CST

    No love for the first Romana?

    by TheFerretLives

    Mary Tam was, and still is, very hot in a classy way - Susan Jameson not so much now, no offence! F

  • May 27, 2011, 4:47 p.m. CST

    Another Tegan-less list!

    by BiggusDickus

    Got something against brassy Australian girls with big boobs, have you?

  • May 27, 2011, 4:49 p.m. CST

    Captain Jack is the hottest companion the Doc ever had

    by KilliK

  • May 27, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST

    re: tegan - theres just something inside me that says

    by Seph_J

    you can't really fancy a Blue Peter presenter.... don't ask me why... it just feels a bit like... fancying your mum....

  • May 27, 2011, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Barrowman! (shakes fist)

    by TheFerretLives

  • May 27, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST

    (wondering if anyone will get that)

    by Seph_J

    probably not. Ahhh nevermind.

  • May 27, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST

    If you are true blue British I think Lala Ward was very sexy...

    by Kelvington

    but maybe that's just me. LOL Also I think it's an age thing, both Romana's were sexy if you were between 15 and 20 when they were around. Leela was just dead sexy if you were a young boy. Liz Sladen was sexy if you liked the brainy types. Rose never did it for me, but Freema... holy shit! And Karen is just all kinds of bat-shit crazy for my tastes... daddy like! On the topic of this weekend's show, how cool would it have been when the "Flesh" scanned the Doctor's DNA that it would have produced the Hartnell version (or any previous version for that matter). And have Doctor One meeting Doctor 11 to work things out. That would have just been such a huge mind fuck! Possible SPOILERS - I think we have to all forget about the astronaut thing, it's also part of the aborted timeline I'll bet. We know they go back to it at some point, because an extra scene was shot, but the woman in the wall is starting to bug me almost as much as the constant scanning for the baby thing. Either this is all happening while Amy is captive and a lot of it's a dream. Or like the crack in the wall, it will all be just a fairy tale when it's all said and done. Of course the best thing would be to see Peter Cushing inside the astronaut's helmet.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Must Watch- Genesis of the Daleks

    by History101

    important story. You understand the Daleks so much more.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:15 p.m. CST

    IMO, Rebel Flesh is better than Doctor's wife.

    by Cap'n Jack

    The Doctor's wife was just an excuse for the Doctor and the Tardis to have a conversation...which is stupid, and I know that they've hinted at the Tardis being alive before, but it's still a dumb idea. The episode had almost no story beyond that, it just existed to get the tardis's consciousness into a woman's body so she/it could flirt with the Doctor. The Rebel Flesh on the other hand had actual themes at play, such as, are these "gangers" considered real people, or what happens when two copies of a child's father return home to him...it was a much stronger episode.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:17 p.m. CST

    another impossible astronaut

    by berserkrl

    We've seen mysterious killers in astronaut suits before. Start watching this preview of "Ambassadors of Death" at around 1:06: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIFI11PJ80U

  • May 27, 2011, 5:18 p.m. CST

    My recommendation for early episodes...

    by Cap'n Jack

    Every Tom Baker episode. Especially the early ones.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:27 p.m. CST

    DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA", MERRICK!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"! DON'T WATCH "THE TWIN DILEMMA"!

  • May 27, 2011, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Bangable Blue Peter Presenter

    by stv

    Valerie Singleton...thinking man's crumpet.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:44 p.m. CST

    "Blue Peter"

    by berserkrl

    I suspect the problem is that the phrase "blue peter" is an anti-aphrodisiac.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:49 p.m. CST

    blue peter was....

    by emeraldboy

    a ship.

  • May 27, 2011, 5:59 p.m. CST

    I feel sorry for the Blue Peter kid who...

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    ...is now probably old enough to realize that their winning Abzorbaloff design appeared in the worst episode of the revived DW show. If you're reading this, kid, then I want you to know it wasn't your fault. You only contributed 10% of the shittiness to that episode. Hopefully some good has come from it and you've decided to become a firefighter or work in the medical industry; basically any profession where you can help people instead of making them suffer. You CAN be redeemed.

  • May 27, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights ... I sense...

    by Kelvington

    a Tosh.0 web redemption for that kid. I remember watching the confidential for that and thinking... kid... what have you done... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! The real question is has Peter Kay ever recovered from it?

  • May 27, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    kelvington

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    We can only hope so. William Grantham of Colchester, Essex - Thanks to Wikipedia, I now know who you are and where you live. As The Punisher said, back in 1989 when he looked like Dolph Lundgren: "Grow up to be a good man. Because if you don't... I'll be waiting."

  • May 27, 2011, 6:12 p.m. CST

    #2 TB and the episode's not even aired yet

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I wonder if Man_Of_Vertue will be around this weekend, to drop strange hints and give us BBC email addresses. Who are you, M_O_V? If you really are *you know who*, then please consider hiring me as the next Doctor when that guy whose face looks like an Easter Island statue decides to leave. Call me. We'll do lunch!

  • May 27, 2011, 6:15 p.m. CST

    Just compare...

    by Kelvington

    This poor kid, who just entered a contest to make a monster (how cool is that) and the girl who won the contest to create a TARDIS console. She will have a toy that will continue to go up in value for the rest of her life and she will be able to take it on job interviews and instead of a CV she'll just be able to say... "oh this? Yea I designed a FUCKING TARDIS CONSOLE... Don't believe me? Here's a show they did on it, and how they choose my design." He on the other hand will only be able to say, "yea I designed a monster big enough for a fat guy to wear... while some guy talked about his block of stone girlfriend blowing him."

  • May 27, 2011, 6:16 p.m. CST

    I invite all of our American chums around to Kelvington's house this weekend

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    You can watch this week's DOCTOR WHO episode and then join in the fun on this Docback. Please book your place on the sofa and your bowl of potato chips in advance.

  • May 27, 2011, 6:18 p.m. CST

    kelvington

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Ha! That made me laugh! Although I definitely do feel sorry for poor William. TARDIS console girl rocks. I wish she was my daughter.

  • May 27, 2011, 6:18 p.m. CST

    Evening All :)

    by shibleybc

  • May 27, 2011, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Merrick :)

    by shibleybc

    Sir i can only recommend one episode that i am constantly amazed never gets a mention :( Robots of Death - 4th and Leela ep, one of my first actual memories of "hiding behind the sofa" literally! :)

  • May 27, 2011, 6:23 p.m. CST

    Why not showing on SPACE?

    by I am not a number

    They don't want to show it in the USA because of Memorial Day, fine. But why the hell is it not being shown in Canada either? SPACE doesn't have it listed this week. I hope the listing guide is wrong, but I doubt it.

  • May 27, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Merrick.......Void Docbacks!

    by shibleybc

    Friday nights would be lovely, sammy, v'shael Kelv frozen, 2 legged Pogue, Smashing et al can then talk bollocks for 24 hours so when i get home from work midnight saturday UK time i can then relax whilst correcting them all and collecting bets! :P

  • May 27, 2011, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Top Ten Totty Companions!

    by shibleybc

    Mel anyone? :P

  • May 27, 2011, 6:31 p.m. CST

    You are all invited...

    by Kelvington

    You can come over and watch the episode on my 70" Bravia in the computer room. Or on the 60" LG in the living room. Before the episode I'll be showing Trek Through Time... the director's cut, followed by last week's episode so we are all caught up. We'll make Kettle corn, have a pint or two, and take pictures of you in front of my TARDIS with my little Adipose Baby in your arms! (my facebook friends loved my adipose baby) After the show, we will write a collective review of the episode, saying how we think somehow either the Rani, the Valeyard or Amy's TARDIS house is sure to be at the bottom of this, and send it to Herc who will not post it. :( Followed by a supper of Ribs, baked beans, and potato salad, with Key Lime pie for dessert. Afterwards we will drink fine spirits and enjoy a recap of the previous episodes and confidentials, before we watch the latest new episode of SGU... oh wait...

  • May 27, 2011, 6:32 p.m. CST

    I never wanted to go anywhere near Melanie's bush

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

  • May 27, 2011, 6:45 p.m. CST

    Kelv - i salute you sir :)

    by shibleybc

    Top night in planned! :) Just sent a friend request on FB, if you show me your Adipose i will show you my Daleks! :P Simon btw :)

  • May 27, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Purple Purple where art thou?

    by shibleybc

  • May 27, 2011, 6:55 p.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by Merrick

    ***By the way, THANKS A MILLION for the regular time lord flavoured DocBacks! We all appreciate it!*** You're most welcome. 'Tis a great pleasure.

  • May 27, 2011, 7:03 p.m. CST

    My Guess On The Two Episodes Merrick Mentions...

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    "If you don't like Human Nature and Family Of Blood you're dead inside."

  • May 27, 2011, 7:10 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by Merrick

    No. HOWEVER, those *are* on the short list of episodes that sold me on the series. There were two (the ____s mentioned above) that convinced me to try further installments (they were also the first two of the 2005-present era I'd seen) - then about twelve or so other eps that *completely* pulled me in like a love-struck, swooning schoolboy.

  • May 27, 2011, 7:11 p.m. CST

    yeah... its unlikely to be

    by Seph_J

    "Aliens of London" and "World War Three"

  • May 27, 2011, 7:23 p.m. CST

    ok...seriously

    by Seph_J

    "Army of Ghosts" & "Doomsday" ?

  • May 27, 2011, 7:28 p.m. CST

    Top Ten Totty Companions - Update

    by shibleybc

    In no particular order! Sarah Jane Smith Ace Leela Rose Romana Romana 2 Zoe Jo Grant Martha Jones Amy Pond

  • May 27, 2011, 7:32 p.m. CST

    shibley

    by Seph_J

    No Nyssa???? No Susan????

  • May 27, 2011, 7:39 p.m. CST

    Help please, best place to ask this question!

    by shibleybc

    Watched The Hungry Earth again just now (dont ask why!) At the start the doc brushes off the appearance of a second Amy and Rory with an explanation along the lines of its kust them in ten years time seeing themselves and then says its to messy to even say hi. Is this significant, its the ep after Amy's Choice? or am i missing a load of Docback discussion about the subject which was eventually dismissed as tosh and nonsense??? Or has it ever been raised before? (*fingers crossed*) Discuss! or slate, whatever it may be :)

  • May 27, 2011, 7:43 p.m. CST

    Watching FRONTIOS (upcoming DVD)

    by Merrick

    Tegan has great legs and ain't bad at all in that miniskirt.

  • May 27, 2011, 7:46 p.m. CST

    @ berserkrl

    by ames prather

    You ever have one of those moments when you hit enter and then say, "DOH!" Yep, meaculpa. ??Pseudo?? Out.

  • May 27, 2011, 7:48 p.m. CST

    Merrick is avoiding the question...

    by Seph_J

    I knew it. It's "Aliens of London" and "World War Three".

  • May 27, 2011, 7:53 p.m. CST

    I've never seen Turlough before...

    by Merrick

    ...he feels kinda like a Rory. Is he? "Aliens" and "Wold War" what? ;-)

  • May 27, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Turlough is dead inside. One of the most

    by Seph_J

    forgettable companions ever. I never really liked him.

  • May 27, 2011, 7:59 p.m. CST

    Seph_J

    by shibleybc

    It was a rush job to be honest, Susan and Nyssa deserve a re-evaluation! And to be honest after seeing the new Torchwood trailer, meybee Jack should get a look in? ;)

  • May 27, 2011, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Whooopeee

    by shibleybc

    A Work Colleague has just meassaged me on Facebook and asked if i am interested in the stack of 80's Doctor Who comics he has discovered in his parents loft???????? WTF!!!! Can i come collect them now LOL Oh there is a *insert deity here* :)

  • May 27, 2011, 8:05 p.m. CST

    Seph_J

    by shibleybc

    Don't Dis the Turlough, i have only got one signed bit of who stuff and its Mark Strikson himself and a BF audio, the singularity! You have just knocked 20 english pence of its asking price, its now worth 6 pounds 40 pence! :P

  • May 27, 2011, 8:07 p.m. CST

    shibs

    by Seph_J

    yeh soz about that - I just always got the impression the writers never knew what to do with Turlough. He's just... there. And... dead inside. And I'm struggling for anything else to say about him. So who is my favourite MALE companion? (in a purely non-sexual way): "HARRY SULLIVAN IS AN IMBECILE!!!!"

  • May 27, 2011, 8:11 p.m. CST

    The Cushing Doctor and canon

    by Danél Griffin

    There have actually been quite a few attempts in Doctor Who books to reconcile the Cushing films to the TV series continuity. The best of them was "The Five O’Clock Shadow" by Nev Fountain, contained in the Doctor Who anthology book "Short Trips: A Day in the Life." Well worth a read. Personally, I suspect that the Cushing Doctor is a future incarnation who's trapped in some sort of holodeck-like prison, brainwashed into believing he is human and forced to relive variations of his old adventures. I also once heard the theory that Cushing is the Tenth Doctor's clone as an old man; after Rose dies, he invents his own version of the TARDIS and has adventures similar to the ones that the first Doctor had -- with his actual grandchildren and nieces in tow. This all makes for interesting conjecture, but I suspect that since Steven Moffat has revealed that he is a huge fan of the Cushing films (and even used it's exterior for the Eleventh's TARDIS, in addition to the two films' colorful Daleks), he will eventually write an episode that provides the official reconciliation once and for all.

  • May 27, 2011, 8:11 p.m. CST

    "Cool dude whose always got a plan"

    by Perigee

    Thanks a bunch, 2legged... you just had me regenerate Smith into Zaphod Beeblebrox. "Yeaaah...Wow, man. Two heads - must be better than one, man..."

  • May 27, 2011, 8:12 p.m. CST

    Diox.

    by Perigee

  • May 27, 2011, 8:25 p.m. CST

    The trick is...

    by Perigee

    Don't pick loser shows. So terrible - Star Trek got canned in 1968. And then again in 1969. And then around 72. And then it came back for a spell in the eighties. And ninties. And oughts. And on and on. Your Kids kids will be watching Some kind of Star Trek. So Terrible - The Doctor started in 1963, but pretty much shut down immediately. After all, 1989 is just a drop in the bucket, on a galactic scale. Then it popped back in '96 for a peep. And then, here it's been since 2005. Your Kids Kids Kids will be watching Some kind of Doctor Who. My advice, is stay away from Canadian Sci Fi. It's break your brain, then break your heart.

  • May 27, 2011, 8:38 p.m. CST

    shibleybc The Hungry Earth...

    by Kelvington

    I don't think they will go back to that, and it didn't mean much other that at the start there were Rory and Amy and they waved. At the end when Rory was taken out of time, it was just Amy, showing... this was real, he's really gone from reality. Beyond that, I don't think they will go back to it, like BTTF2. However (SPOILERS) we do know they back to the beach because the confidential said they shot an extra scene. And we do know there is an aborted timeline because a scene with Amy and River filming a scene was overheard and they talked about that. And we do know that Amy gets idnapKayed this weekend at the end of the episode. And we think the Cybermen are the original ones not the rubbish ones made by one of "The Old Guys".

  • May 27, 2011, 8:43 p.m. CST

    Has the Doctor ever had a companion go bad?

    by cerberus

    And not bad for one episode due to mind control. Being that there has been so many Doctors over the years I find it hard to believe that none of them ever went bad. If not, that would be something worth exploring.

  • the one with the bikini in 1.05: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMMxOWUffEU which companion does she do?

  • May 27, 2011, 8:47 p.m. CST

    kilik bikini = Peri most probably

    by Seph_J

  • As a Cybermen fan, I'm always hoping the original ones from Mondas/Telos would return. I'm praying you're right. (The question is, will David Banks and Mark Hardy return as the Cyber Leader and Cyber Lieutenant? I think their last appearance was in "Silver Nemesis".)

  • May 27, 2011, 9:01 p.m. CST

    *SPOILER* *REALLY*

    by Seph_J

    *** EPISODE 6/7 SPOILER*** I too am interested to know why there are no Cybus logos on the Cybermen. I'm also thinking that Silurian and Sontaran action almost certainly means 'the Alliance' have returned... which, correct me if I'm wrong, means that something went horrendously wrong with the Big Bang 2?

  • Turlough was an example of what would happen if one of the Doctor's enemies planted a mole on the TARDIS. I thought Turlough was a great change from all the "goody-goody" companions, even when he stopped being bad, he was still bad.

  • May 27, 2011, 9:19 p.m. CST

    cerebus As for companions going bad...

    by Kelvington

    The most recent one was Adam he went bad very quickly. Not in a kill the Doctor kind of way, but he violated one of the rules of time, and the Doctor was not having it, he kicked him off in just two shows. You could also make the argument that Donna went bad, not evil, but her brain literally went bad, and she was rebooted as it were. In the classic series Ace had her moments of love/hate for the Doctor, and he forced her to look at her own demons from time to time, but I don't know that you could call that going bad. Leela started out bad, as a killer, which the Doctor didn't approve of, but became more tame over the series, and while she never wore a bikini, she did wear a short skirt, loin cloth, and leather bra like top. Man I miss those days. killik - Yes that's Perri, the Doctor's American companion, with the odd accent and the perky breasts. Too big for my tastes... Amy and Romana II were just right LOL perigee - What Star Trek show got cancelled in '72? Are you thinking about Space 1999? Because Star Trek TOS went off the air in '69, the animated series was on in '73 & '74 and then Star Trek Phase II was canned before it aired while in preproduction in '76. axcel1 - I'm thinking the inclusion of the cybermats makes them the real original cybermen, something the cyberdyne industry ones never had. Even in "The Next Doctor" they had the C on their chest plates, because they fell through time.

  • May 27, 2011, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Cerebus

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Companions gone bad :- Well not really but Turlough, a 5th Doctor companion was pretty conflicted. Went from bad to good though. Oh and he was ginger !!!

  • May 27, 2011, 9:43 p.m. CST

    Oh and whilst I think about it

    by 2LeggedFreak

    As far as companions going bad is concerned:-- You can't get much worse than this.

  • The cybermats were a product of "our" Cybermen, so, you may be right.

  • May 27, 2011, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Let me try that again

    by 2LeggedFreak

    As far as companions going bad is concerned:-- You can't get much worse than this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-m4DScIL2E

  • May 27, 2011, 9:48 p.m. CST

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....................................

    by axcel1

    Already NUMBER ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 9:50 p.m. CST

    Apropos of nothing much

    by 2LeggedFreak

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilxxW9cXF-A

  • Back in some whoback God knows how long ago, maybe 2 years. It's nice to see it's taken a life of it's own. It's the only way I can see that they can bring those movies into continuity. It makes sense too since it would probably take that Doctor 25-30 or so years to build a mock up, non-living,Tardis out of basic tech in a universe that apparently has no timelords in it.

  • May 27, 2011, 10:32 p.m. CST

    The Human Tennant Doctor is also...

    by thecomedian

    The way they unintentionally retconned out the "half-human" shit from the TV movie. By the Doctor splitting in two, one timelord and one human Davies could have just thrown in 2 quick lines of dialogue about the Doctors two genetic halves splitting but he's such a tool I'm sure he didn't even realize it.

  • May 27, 2011, 10:49 p.m. CST

    "Young Liz Sladen and Old Liz Sladen"

    by veteran_of_mu

    We're probably a decade away from having special FX that could make the two together happen. But if it can happen ... hottest conceivable companions.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:15 p.m. CST

    @killik

    by berserkrl

    The companion in the bikini is definitely Peri.

  • May 27, 2011, 11:22 p.m. CST

    @thecomedian

    by berserkrl

    I think the unofficial line is that the 8th Doctor is the only one that was half-human. (But there's no consensus on what that means.)

  • May 28, 2011, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Otherwise it's a toss up between Leela and Nyssa ...

    by veteran_of_mu

    Not fully clad Nyssa. Half naked sweaty no-bra Nyssa trapped in the ventilation shafts ... hooray!

  • May 28, 2011, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Okay, and both Romanas.

    by veteran_of_mu

    Grrr.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Louise Jameson played Leela, not 'Susan' Jameson

    by Shan

    Everyone up thread who said 'Susan' Jameson played Leela, hand in your geek cards on the way out to your refresher course (returnable on completion). It's Louise! Louise Jameson!

  • May 28, 2011, 12:51 a.m. CST

    @biggus

    by Jawsh Murdock

    Sorry mate! I have no problem with Tegan. She's just not in my top 10. It appears I'm not the only one who feels that way.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:08 a.m. CST

    jawshco

    by berserkrl

    "She's just not in my top 10. It appears I'm not the only one who feels that way." Indeed, we all feel that she's not in your top 10. :-)

  • May 28, 2011, 1:10 a.m. CST

    So Doctor Who gets talkbacks when not even airing?

    by Crooooooow

    I'm definitely not complaining, but the Supernatural fans will be shitting themselves :p

  • May 28, 2011, 1:36 a.m. CST

    Wonderful clip!

    by MoffatBabies

    Thanks for that. See you all tomorrow!

  • May 28, 2011, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Turlough

    by HornOrSilk

    He _is_ a great idea of a character, but sadly, the writers didn't know how to use him all the time and he was sort of just "there." But when he was used right, he is great. He was a "bad" companion who turned good, and yet always had the "bad" streak in him. The audios did a good job bringing this out in Loups-Garoux. This is something one could do as a part of the continuing Doctor Who talk backs -- have one set aside every so often for the audio adventures.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Doctor Who gets talkbacks because Doctor Who is #1

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 28, 2011, 5:13 a.m. CST

    Is "Almost People" NOT playing in Canada this weekend?

    by tangcameo

    Just went to set up my PVR for the episode and I CAN'T FIND IT!!! :-( It plays around 6pm my time on Space in Canada (BBC Canada is an empty wasteland of reality shows since every other channel in Canada keeps buying up BBC programming).

  • May 28, 2011, 5:15 a.m. CST

    Great Clip

    by 2LeggedFreak

    This clip encompasses all that was wonderful about Leela as a companion. She was a warrior and as such when you needed to take action she was your girl-- no doubts or hesitation !!! Love her instant reaction when the little midgy monster with the knife appears and heads towards her threateningly. Prior to this victims of Dr Who monsters would tend to stand there screaming (for a very long time usually) whilst the monster made rather slow progress towards them--well its not easy being quick when your made of egg boxes. You could rely on Leela not to make things easy for anybody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3I6JWJxUws

  • May 28, 2011, 5:17 a.m. CST

    The Doctor should visit Canada next, now that he's done America

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Just so he can investigate a mystery there and ask the question "What is this all aboot?"

  • May 28, 2011, 5:24 a.m. CST

    Even though I have a great idea for a Canadian DW story...

    by tangcameo

    ...I'd rather not have him do a Canadian episode. I still remember watching the 70s version of The Avengers with them visiting Canada. God those were awful. I swear they must have been sharing their film equipment with The Littlest Hobo at the time.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:32 a.m. CST

    Canada should be good for a Yeti story

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 28, 2011, 5:35 a.m. CST

    You mean Sasquatch (aka Bigfoot) hornorsilk?

    by tangcameo

    I think the Six Million Dollar Man beat you to that idea Hornor.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:41 a.m. CST

    Seriously, I have a GREAT idea for a Canadian DW story

    by tangcameo

    With all the usual DW ingredients; a moment in history relateable not only to Canadians but pretty much anyone in the UK and US, a famous real-life celebrity (long since dead so they can't sue me - I hope) also familiar not only to Canadians but everyone - just add aliens and voila! Just wish I could pitch it to the DW people. They'd love it as a DW novel. It's be too bloody expensive as an episode (plus the locations no longer exist).

  • May 28, 2011, 5:42 a.m. CST

    I mean a Yeti story.

    by HornOrSilk

    Do you know about the Yeti in Doctor Who?

  • May 28, 2011, 5:48 a.m. CST

    Whoops! Sorry! I discoverd DW during 3rd Doctor

    by tangcameo

    Actually that would be a good idea, but there would probably be a lot of Steve Austin jokes in it. Then again, it'd be a laugh to see Matt Smith in a red/white Addidas outfit. lol

  • May 28, 2011, 5:54 a.m. CST

    No problem. Just would be a good place for them to come back

    by HornOrSilk

    And it could be a new variation of Yeti, to follow North American myths of said creatures...

  • May 28, 2011, 6:04 a.m. CST

    6 hours 41 minutes!!

    by Seph_J

  • May 28, 2011, 6:27 a.m. CST

    axcel- I thought Ric Flair had turned up there.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    WWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

  • ....infact both of my cats are now after a piece of the "easy money" action!!!!! So, it becomes a fact that you have to pay to get pussy..... ;)

  • May 28, 2011, 6:30 a.m. CST

    6 hours to go!!!!!! WOOT!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • I can recall something out there that has now proved to be false. Shame, as an updated incarnation would be quite spectacular if handled and concepted correctly.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:40 a.m. CST

    There were, Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    But apparently it came from confusion of a different project being thought as connected with the Christmas Special.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:46 a.m. CST

    6.45 pm tonight guys, and confidential at 8.15 pm!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 6:54 a.m. CST

    crooooooow - reason? Guaranteed number 1 every week!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Merrick knows when he's onto a good thing regarding site traffic and hits. We've been averaging about 600-700 in the first three days. Not bad for a show that's nearly 50, eh?

  • May 28, 2011, 6:58 a.m. CST

    konraddippel & thecomedian : Cushings Doctor

    by Daren Salter

    The whole Cushing being an older 10th incarnation would actually work really well especially as :- 1. He's in trapped an alternative universe so could quite feasibly have adventures involving Dalek's similar to adventures of the 1st. 2. He's actually half human / half timelord which could even give credence to the 8th's movie adventures when he states the same. This could have happened in that alternative universe. 3. There was a cut scene where Tenants doctor gives his clone a segment of tardis to grow. The more I think of it, this really would be a great set of stories.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:09 a.m. CST

    'The Almost People' introduction *spoilers*

    by Seph_J

    now online http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011lqwt "the life of Amy Pond takes a turn for the worst"

  • May 28, 2011, 7:12 a.m. CST

    *spoilers* dialogue from Episode 6:

    by Seph_J

    "doctor you said earlier to 'breathe' "very important Pond, breathe!" "yeah, well I'm struggling to"

  • May 28, 2011, 7:21 a.m. CST

    Spoilers for Ep 7

    by HornOrSilk

    Amy gets kidnapped, which leads the Doctor to go to war...

  • May 28, 2011, 7:24 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by Merrick

    **Merrick knows when he's onto a good thing regarding site traffic and hits.*** That's a tad cynical. I'd be lying if I told you the success of these Talkbacks hadn't been noted. However, truthfully, the primary motivator here is far more altruistic (that I'm having a wonderful time making these happen does help quite a bit).

  • May 28, 2011, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Merrick -- are you interested in the audios?

    by HornOrSilk

    I highly recommend them, if you are into Doctor Who. There are a lot of them. Some are as classic as any Who, some are as mediocre as one would expect. But the good ones in some ways brought together many of the writers for the New Who who have done much good --Paul Cornell, Rob Shearman, Joseph Lidster, etc. If you want a list of the "must listens" I could put it together. The audio "And the Pirates" is a far better Pirate story than what we got this year, and it has a wonderful musical soundtrack... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIdDXQ2h1Pc

  • May 28, 2011, 7:34 a.m. CST

    Merricks "blankety blank" episodes- been doing some thinking....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...and the girl in the fireplace has to be one of them! The other is love and monsters...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Audios -- a sampling of the good ones

    by HornOrSilk

    There are other good ones, and I didn't go through the EDA and the Lost Stories... but here are some good ones for anyone interested: The Marian Conspiracy (first Evelyn Smythe) Spectre of Lanyon Moor (6th Doctor and the Brigadier) The Holy Terror (all hail the talking bird) Storm Warning (return of the 8th Doctor) Loups-Garoux (great 5th Doctor and Turlough story) Project Twilight (Vampires) Chimes of Midnight Seasons of Fear Neverland Spare Parts (Genesis of the Cybermen with Nyssa) Doctor Who and the Pirates Davros (6th Doctor and Davros story) The Harvest The Game (written by a former Seinfeld writer) Terror Firma (8th Doctor and Davros) Architects of History Project Destiny A Death in the Family

  • May 28, 2011, 7:40 a.m. CST

    thanks horn

    by Seph_J

    there are still large gaps in the audio stories for me to fill... useful list. And the words "with Nyssa" are where I'm going to start. Damn she was hot.

  • ... being cynical had absolutely nothing to do with it, I was just stating what was blatantly obvious. These TB's average a shit load of traffic "guaranteed" each week. I myself have envisioned the telephone conversations from Mr Knowles..."FUCK! Get more WHO on the fucking site, Merrick!!!" ;) Where upon a transformers/star wars/batman et.c will also produce MUCHOS posting, they are specifically of the moment- ie when the news comes in. As for your love of WHO- just keep blasting away at that back catalogue my frind and the cockles of your heart will warm even more!!! As said before, our eternal thanks to chat about something we love!

  • May 28, 2011, 7:46 a.m. CST

    seph/horn- I thought we weren't doing spoilers anymore???? BAH!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 7:50 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by Merrick

    No worries at all and I totally understand where you're coming from. For whatever it's worth, those kind of conversations haven't happened *at all.*

  • May 28, 2011, 7:50 a.m. CST

    Seph -- then get Spare Parts

    by HornOrSilk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbkY0bd1pXc The trailer for it.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:52 a.m. CST

    Sam -- my spoiler was released by the BBC

    by HornOrSilk

    Their description for episode 7. So, just, I thought it was fair if the BBC released it.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:55 a.m. CST

    sam J

    by Seph_J

    yeah, spoilers piss me off. I only discuss spoilery-clues that have appeared officially - usually. horn, however...jeez.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    And if you want Nyssa, this is all the audios with Nyssa to date

    by HornOrSilk

    The Land of the Dead Winter for the Adept The Mutant Phase Primeval Spare Parts Creatures of Beauty The Game Circular Time Renaissance of the Daleks Return to the Web Planet The Haunting of Thomas Brewster The Boy That Time Forgot Time Reef & A Perfect World The Darkening Eye Castle of Fear The Eternal Summer Plague of the Daleks Cobwebs The Whispering Forest The Cradle of the Snake The Demons of Red Lodge and Other Stories Heroes of Sontar Kiss of Death Rat Trap The Elite Hexagora The Children of Seth The Five Companions To be sure, some of them are much better than others. My favorites from these are: Spare Parts Creatures of Beauty The Game Circular Time Heroes of Sontar (I have just got Kiss of Death, so that and anything beyond it I can't comment on).

  • May 28, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by Merrick

    I am *very* interested in the audios and I've been considering checking them out. THANK YOU SO MUCH for putting together that list. Are these the same things I've also heard referred to as "radio stories"? I printed out the "classic" episode recommendations offered in the Talkbacks above yesterday (thanks to everyone who contributed theor thoughts) and turned them into a check list. Already ordered a few of the titles, and discovered I owened a few on unwatched DVDs as well. Getting started on those immediately. I'll go after these audios at the same time. Again, very much appreciated.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Merrick

    by HornOrSilk

    They are full cast audio drama. Some of them have been put on BBC radio from time to time (Cobwebs recently, if I remember correctly), but even those which have not been, they are basically radio stories. Some people have been making videos from them (or at least, scenes from them). Some are good, some are not. This one, from Davros, is not really a good video, but it highlights the classic opening of the audio; you can listen to it while doing something else (and not watch the video). It will give a glimpse of how these audios can be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuiGuMoLK0E&feature=related

  • May 28, 2011, 8:01 a.m. CST

    horn

    by Seph_J

    thats a lot of Nyssa. And what could be better. Thanks again!

  • May 28, 2011, 8:05 a.m. CST

    You are welcome Seph

    by HornOrSilk

    Some of them are the Doctor and Nyssa alone, some of them are with a full TARDIS crew. Cobwebs begins a cycle where Nyssa returns, older, with Tegan and Turlough just having gone through Enlightenment.

  • I was not saying (writing) "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" the same way he says it, I was saying it like a, let's say, like a surfer dude would say it.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:11 a.m. CST

    Axcel- so nowhere near North Carolina, then? DAMN!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    However, I will take Keanu Reeves over Ric Flair.. (who wouldn't?)

  • I got my hopes up that the Yeti would return, especially since both " The Abominable Snowmen" and "The Web of Fear" are incomplete. Oh well, maybe Moff will back back some other villian from the past.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:16 a.m. CST

    axcel1

    by HornOrSilk

    There is the possibility we might be seeing the return of the Yeti, if the BBC decides to work with Ian Levine and have a complete version of Downtime released. Sly has filmed sequences for it to put the Doctor into the story!

  • May 28, 2011, 8:16 a.m. CST

    I'm still pissed Alfred Gough died....

    by Seph_J

    ...I can see the Toymaker going well with Moffat's 'fairytale' theme...

  • May 28, 2011, 8:17 a.m. CST

    seph_j

    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, that was another sad moment for Doctor Who fans this year. Nonetheless, there are Celestial Toymaker stories to listen to on audio, and, once again, it seems as if Ian Levine has done something with Sly to bring him back, too.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:29 a.m. CST

    seph- it was another of those rumours when the trailer hit!

    by sam jacksons wig

    As soon as we saw the dolls walking down the hallway, it was "CELESTIAL TOYMAKER IS BACK!" And I hoped againt hope it was true; alas not to be! However, Michael Gough had a long and fruitful life... we should all be so lucky!

  • May 28, 2011, 8:32 a.m. CST

    No, Sam, I'm from New Jersey, before that, upstate New York

    by axcel1

    But, had a funny moment while driving back home from North Carolina, my wife was driving and I had the road map on my lap, it was nice out, so, she said, "open the window", you know, instead of turning on the A/C, keep in mind, we were on the highway, driving 70+ miles an hour and they were power windows, so, once that window was open, BAM, that map FLEW out that window like it was a duck flying south for the winter. We just looked at each other and laughed and then took out a cell phone and called my wife's sister for directions. (This was when cell phones were small, but, could only be used for making phone calls.)

  • May 28, 2011, 8:38 a.m. CST

    4 hours and 8 minutes until kickoff!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 8:44 a.m. CST

    axcel- thank christ for the invention of the sat nav!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Never been to the good old US of A before. My wife has (both personally and profesionally) and is due to go there again early fall for three weeks (the lone star state beckons due to work.... however she cn't lie and say there wont be any downtime!) Her friend and colleague has just been to Mexico and to Canada through work. I had few beers with her husband and the words "lucky" and "bitches" cam into conversation quite alot!! Oh, and PLEASE tell me that Jersey is FUCK ALL like those stupid fucking programmes on television!!!!!

  • It's Michael Gough who played The Celestial Toymaker. And, also, he would have returned during the Colin Baker era, there was a script, but, that one and two others were canceled, while the three that were filmed had "The Trial of a Time Lord" wrapped around them. (All three were put into book form, so, if they are still out there, they are not a bad read.) Too bad, it could have been filmed with Michael Gough, it would have been before his time in the Tim Burton Batman films.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:49 a.m. CST

    no no... I'm quite sure

    by Seph_J

    it's Alfred Gough.... "I'll cancel the pizza?!" ;)

  • As I remember saying in an earlier talkback post, New Jersey has a Governor who rules with an iron fist, hey, I didn't vote for him

  • I hope I still home after the ends, have to go out around the same time.

  • Yes, it is Michael Gough, I wouldn't lie to a fellow Who fan.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:04 a.m. CST

    This interview with Paul McGann is fun to watch!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDOMy98R9hk It unfortunately confirms that he is yet to be contacted about any potential future return... ..HOI BBC!! Get on the fucking phone to the bloke who fought in the fucking time war!!

  • May 28, 2011, 9:09 a.m. CST

    Where's the description of ep7 on the bbc site?

    by TheFerretLives

  • May 28, 2011, 9:10 a.m. CST

    axcel I know

    by Seph_J

    but Michael Gough is most famous for playing Alfred. Come on man, lighten up.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:12 a.m. CST

    Sam J

    by Seph_J

    we cling to the fact that that interview was a couple of years ago.... anything could have happened on the sly since....

  • May 28, 2011, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Paul McGann...

    by chiwrtr72

    While I enjoyed his Dr Who movie, I thought the whole time lord/human hybrid thing was rubbish. I like to think McGann as more of an elseworld's doctor rather than part of the cannon.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:17 a.m. CST

    seph- oh wouldn't it be 700 shades of awesomeness???

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 9:20 a.m. CST

    Just had a naughty thought

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Watching last weeks again there seems a bit of a disconnect in one series of events. When the Doctor heads off to check on the Tardis I think it was, there is a scene where we see him go back in and sonic the goo which leads eventually to the ganger Doctor. Just occurred to me, a bit like the Angels story, that this may not be this timelines Docotr that created the ganger Doctor. Of course there is nothing obvious like missing Jacket or different coloured bow tie but its interesting its so split from the rest of the programme.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:22 a.m. CST

    If we're pushing the movies

    by donkey_lasher

    away from canon, then McCoy's Doctor ended the time war surely, and Eccleston would then be the 8th incarnation. I could believe that the 7th Doctor was capable of mass genocide, seeing how he manipulated Davros into destroying Skaro....

  • May 28, 2011, 9:27 a.m. CST

    donkey-lasher

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Yep but surely that would make the McGann Doctor the bitter, guilt ridden one and not, as we saw the Eccleston Doctor. Have to feel that, if it wasn't the 9th Doctor it was his immediate predecessor just because of the immediacy of 9's grief.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Spoilers -- BBC description for ep 7

    by HornOrSilk

    Amy Pond has been kidnapped and the Doctor is raising an army to rescue her as the drama continues. But as he and Rory race across galaxies, calling in long-held debts and solemnly given promises, his enemies are laying a carefully concealed trap.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:34 a.m. CST

    2legged

    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, I already thought we might have a future Doctor in this episode.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:35 a.m. CST

    3 hours and 10 minutes until air time!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 9:49 a.m. CST

    RECOMMENDATIONS

    by NinjaChampion

    The show has changed a lot over the years and not everyone is going to like the same Doctors or Doctor Companion teams. I at least like some of each doctor, but have a preference for 1-5. So My Current top 10 is: 1 The Sun Makers 2 The Talons of Weng-Chiang 3 Horror of Fang Rock 4 The Seeds of Doom 5 The Caves of Androzani 6 Day of the Daleks 7 The Seeds of Death 8 The Claws of Axos 9 Earthshock 10 The Ark

  • May 28, 2011, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Horror of Fang Rock!

    by TheFerretLives

    Forgot about that one, classic, and based - slightly - on a true story of a whole island's worth of lighthouse attendants going missing. Another great Tom Baker serial to add to the others already mentioned but one that no one has mentioned, I think, is Brain Of Moebius (sic). So so far out of the 4th Doctor's stories I'd go for:- Talons of Weng Chian Pyramids of Mars Terror of the Zygons Robots of Death Brain of Moebius City of Death Seeds of Doom Genesis of the Daleks The Keeper of Traken. But I'll probably think of some more! F

  • May 28, 2011, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Good Morning, you lucky bastards.

    by Perigee

    Remember, your American Cousins are counting on you today more than ever. Like rats in the electronic wainscotting, we'll be creeping along the recesses of the Internet, looking to snatch a handout. Give generously. And quickly. We's Jonesin' over here.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:56 a.m. CST

    hmm.. where is Man_of_vertue this week?

    by notspock2

    Does anyone else ONLY hear SM's voice when reading his posts? Dear MOV- if you are reading, and you are who you say you aren't- Could you let Nikola Tesla fight off UFO's for the the next historical episode? please?

  • May 28, 2011, 9:58 a.m. CST

    I'm genuinely curious

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    ...as to which episodes actually hooked Merrick. For me, S1 was generally okay and I enjoyed Eccleston. Dalek was very solid, and Father's Day was very solid, and Empty Child/Doctor Dances was even more solid. I loved the bit with the bananas. But once I hit Girl in the Fireplace, I was blown away. It's one of those geek moments where after you finish the episode, you just kind of sit there dazed and catching your breath, trying to digest the whole thing, while you're--if I might make an anachronistic pop culture reference--bubbling over with unbridled enthusiasm. That episode was the point where I thought to myself, even if the next 3 seasons are rubbish, I'm going to have to sit through it just because I know it could get this good again. Speaking of bananas, I really hope that we could get another banana reference with Matt Smith. We've had one with Eccleston ("they're a good source of potassium!"), we've had one with Tennant ("I think I just invented the banana daiquiri a couple centuries early"); it seems only fair that we should get one with Matt Smith just to continue the hilarious trend.

  • May 28, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Hmm... jiggling Flesh... (Spoilery)

    by Perigee

    I just had a brainstorm. The Doctor put his hand over the flesh, and it jiggled and wiggled and got all "Whee..." It takes one to know one, even at that point?

  • May 28, 2011, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Man of Vertue IS NOT the Moff!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Anyone can have a smattering of insider knowledge just by trolling the internet, and whilst this person might work for the BBC in some form or other the chances of him/her being the Moff is fucking miniscule!

  • All hail the DocBack!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    2 hours a 45 minutes to go!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • As this is leading into the mid series split, I would also hazard a guess that the spoilers will be quite damaging to those wanting to go in cold! Just tread carefully, guys!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 10:36 a.m. CST

    iTunes

    by The_Mad_Groper

    I hope they don't delay in releasing it this week like the last one... Didn't get to see The Rebel Flesh until Wednesday! I don't think I can stay spoiler free that long! ~North Carolians for Doctor Who!!~ Anytime you guys are in the Good ol North State, you have a standing invite to come watch a few episodes with me! I even got my friend from Puerto Rico hooked on The Doctor now... She keeps going around saying "Trust Me, I'm The Doctor!" ;)

  • May 28, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Sam - it scanned him back...

    by Perigee

    I dunno, the theory is getting stale even as I think about it, but the whole living flesh/gangers/Odo/Founders/Great Link thing is niggling at me. Risking sounding heretical, we've got sort of an unholy trinity thing going on; father, son, holy ghost - different but still essentially one. The new "gangers" are living, but still essentially Flesh, and as such - especially if the Flesh itself is sentient, as suggested by the Doctor's initial scan - they're still interconnected to a point. What will be interesting is if that bit in the preview -"You're one of us, Doctor" - is something they just recognize, rather than something the doppledoc reveals himself. Takes one to know one.

  • May 28, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    2 hours exactly!

    by Seph_J

  • He told me to stop telling him lies and to fuck off as LOST was going to be on soon. Television has certainly changed a lot over the years.

  • May 28, 2011, 10:56 a.m. CST

    CBTML- it certainly has changed!!! Look at what we have now!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Doctor Who (still going strong!!!) Game of Thrones (just started reading the literature as the show has blown me away!) The Walking Dead (frank darabont is a genius...) Boardwalk Empire (Steve Buscemi- yes! And Scorsese is a GOD!!) All five star shows!!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 10:58 a.m. CST

    LOST

    by Seph_J

    was like the best 6-year long blowjob in history.... until just at the last minute, when the culmination of 6 years build-up is about to be released.... she sinks her teeth into your nob and bites if off. And then spits parts of cock flesh into your face. Unforgiveable.

  • May 28, 2011, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Sam Jackson's Wig

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Have you seen episode 7 of GoT yet (the one they released online)? I'm not going to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it but the last scene made me gasp and then grin like a fool for about five minutes afterward. It's a fucking brilliant show, that one, and the casting is incredible. I'd love to see Sean Bean in an episode of DOCTOR WHO!

  • May 28, 2011, 11:07 a.m. CST

    If you're watching BBC London -

    by V'Shael

    Confidential is on at 7:30, immediately after Doctor Who ends, just turn over to BBC3.

  • ...after dig so I immediately went out and bought season 2 and watched it over 3 day. Loved it, until that final season when it was obviously being made up on the fly. Such fucking travesty.

  • May 28, 2011, 11:08 a.m. CST

    seph_j

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I've actually come to terms with the finale of LOST. In terms of enjoyment, that show gave me a LOT and (along with the revived DOCTOR WHO) it helped me to fall in love with television again. But, anyway, let's not talk about LOST. That kind of conversation always ends badly!

  • May 28, 2011, 11:13 a.m. CST

    I almost.... ALMOST feel

    by Seph_J

    sorry for the writers of LOST now... to think that for 6 years they sat there BRICKING themselves going "oh shit, we've fucked ourselves over here royally - we never knew how this was gonna end!" Can't have been a very nice feeling. But yep. Enough LOST...... only 1 hour 33 minutes until ALL our GAMES are CHANGED!!

  • May 28, 2011, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Trrrrrrust meeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

  • May 28, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    ONE HOUR LEFT.......

    by Seph_J

  • May 28, 2011, 12:06 p.m. CST

    54 minutes...... oh yes.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 12:10 p.m. CST

    35 minutes!!!

    by Seph_J

  • May 28, 2011, 12:10 p.m. CST

    I have a feeling that tonight will see us re-united with an old foe...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...but it is just a feeling I have.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:12 p.m. CST

    or, Sam J

    by Seph_J

    a number of old foes ;)

  • May 28, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST

    can't help but think that like Lost...

    by TheFerretLives

    ... some people are building this up a tad too much, that way only leads to disappointment my friends. F

  • May 28, 2011, 12:16 p.m. CST

    ferret

    by Seph_J

    unlike new shows like Lost, Doctor Who has been around longer than most of us... it is IMPOSSIBLE to build it up too much, give it too much respect, or bow down and worship it enough.

  • We can't Possibly do both; not with today's episode denied us. I will, however, enjoy this Memorial Day weekend. Muuuuhahaha... ~Twirls his piratey moustachio and ques up a certain ELP track for "the waiting time." And yes - thanks to you guys, I'll be spoiled to death by the thime the Golden Hour arrives. And loving every minute of it. Viddy well, my brethren.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    theferretlives

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    We shall see whether you are right or wrong once River Song's identity is revealed.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:21 p.m. CST

    ferret- as with any show you get out of it the enthusiasm you put in...

    by sam jacksons wig

    I find it very difficult not to be enthused by this show as each and every episode creates a multitude of talking points, for good or for ill. And whilst some episodes are not up there with others, Who is quite possibly the best 45 minutes you will spend infront of the TV for anyones money.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:25 p.m. CST

    sam.... don't.... just..... don't

    by Seph_J

    ;)

  • May 28, 2011, 12:29 p.m. CST

    fifteen

    by Seph_J

    minutes!

  • May 28, 2011, 12:29 p.m. CST

    CBTML- not seen ep 7 of GOT yet!!! But I can't fucking wait!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    It has been nothing short of sensational television from it's opening moments!

  • May 28, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST

    15 minutes! The family has convened in the lounge....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...a dizzying array of snacks are being produced... ...alcohol is passing lips.... ...the anticipation is ramped..... ...very few shows produce this kind of reaction.....

  • May 28, 2011, 12:36 p.m. CST

    sam

    by Seph_J

    tell me about it. It's quite incredible really isn't it. Damn I love Who. Everything about the show. Everything about it is just so.. right.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Long (er) Live The Doctor!

    by Perigee

    Golden Days indeed. I thought my days of exuberant excitement over series television were long past me. This has been an oasis in a world of suck. Rule, Britannia. You lil rascals, you.

  • May 28, 2011, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Doctor Who and democracy

    by Seph_J

    have always been the best things about the UK

  • May 28, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Guys, talk to you all when it's finished. Enjoy!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 12:42 p.m. CST

    "I have a plan... and it will destroy them all".

    by Seph_J

  • They get troll-hooked like crazy over there. Easy to do - the whole "Gay Thing" is like a big, shiny cherry-red button over there, and Diox is Riverdancing on it like Mike Flatley. Still. Dude - don't you have any friends or something? Your Mommy and Daddy not give you enough love? Are you the school pariah? Whats with the attention whore obsession? In case you've managed to miss it, we're having a hell of a good time in fellowship in here - probably more fun than your lonely baiting. Why not find something you can support, and enjoy some friendship for a change?

  • May 28, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Would you like a jelly baby????? FUCKINGEEK-GASM!!!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    NOW THAT IS A FUCKING ENDING!!!!!

    by V'Shael

    Best unspoiled ending ever!!! 11/10. Top of the fucking class.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Good episode.

    by donkey_lasher

    I cant wait to see the reactions on here.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Wha a fucking episode! Matt Smiths work here was truly excellent!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Guys in the US-you're in for a fucking treat and then some!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:32 p.m. CST

    C HRIST! NO-ONE givE away that fucking ending!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Sam -- good. I will see it in a few, I hope

    by HornOrSilk

    And I saw the trailer for next week. Cool.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    I wasn't right... but I was more right than less wrong...

    by Kelvington

    That was very well done! Let the doc-back begin!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    what? what? WHAT???

    by notspock2

  • May 28, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Woah

    by chronicallydepressedlemming

    Great twist :D

  • May 28, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST

    by dj_bollocks

    That's another one that I'll need to watch again - well the last 2 minutes anyway - messy, garbled, didn't enjoy the 2 parter as a whole... Roll on next week though

  • May 28, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST

    FUCKING...... JUST .......AWESOME!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    I have fucking chills! am going to watch it again!!! Just BRILLIANT!!!! Fuck yes!!!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Worth it for the last 5 minutes.

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    The rest was slightly better than last week but the whole thing was basically build up to one big twist. Exciting things to come but still two episodes of filler.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    THAT WAS AMAZING

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I REFUSE to believe that "The Almost People" was written by the same person as "Rebel Flesh". Where part one was slow, predictable and devoid of laughs, part two was fast-paced, full of twists and contained some great comedy (Eleventh Doctor X 2 FTW!!) And the ending. Fuck me. I'm SO glad I didn't read any spoilers. Eye Patch Woman is CREEPY AS HELL!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:38 p.m. CST

    According to JustinTV there were 3000 Americans watching live...

    by Kelvington

    That's almost enough to get a ratings point! How crazy is BBCA for not showing this tonight?

  • May 28, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Loved it!!! the subject matter, them vs us.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....Matt Smiths dual role was just marvelous. If you wnt to know how much he's grown into the Doc then watch him here!!! The Flesh-monsterthing was the only weak point in an episode that reduced my eldest daughter to tears of emotion!!!! Watch it now!!!!!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    OK I'm confused

    by theGoldbergV

    real life got in the way a bit while I was watching and I missed some dialogue... can someone explain...so Amy was the flesh all along? Since when? The start of this season...before that maybe? Maybe it wasn't supposed to make sense yet but because I didn't hear all of what they were saying I have no idea what happened... Of what I saw though this was much better than last week, even if people dying from acid burns is perhaps a little dark for a family/kids show

  • May 28, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Ahhh !!!

    by 2LeggedFreak

    In a way slightly more mundane than I was expecting...in another everything makes a lot of sense. So now we know why the Doctor went looking for the flesh and also understand the dual readings--as I say, slightly more mundane !! Still to come though...why ?? Will Amy's baby have a time head? Thoughts on the show :- This could be dodgy in terms of casual viewers because its a more than one viewing piece to pick up on all the bits and bobs;- e.g. the Doctor now knows that he's going to die !!! So quite complicated and needed a lot of focus. Matt Smith was phenomenal though..there were times when he really exuded menace. I did think they over-played Amy not trusting the Flesh to the point of making you overtly notice it-- which wasn't a good idea. Also the moraility of the Doctors handling of the twist needs thinking about. Good stuff though--can't wait for next week./

  • If that doesn't give the kids nightmares, I don't know what will! Fucking Awesome.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    another thing

    by theGoldbergV

    when did the Doctors pull the switcheroo? Does that mean the real Doctor now knows about his death? Maybe I should just watch it again. Yes. I think I'll do that. Come on iPlayer...

  • May 28, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    And, off I go to beg a copy...

    by Perigee

    Thrilled you all didn't come in here saying, "meh.." Now nobody spoil anything until I see it. Psyche. Spoil the crap outta me. Inquiring minds want to know.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow....... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Oh there's so much to fucking talk about feel giddy!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    W.T.F??!¡¿

    by s0l

    W.t.f. That is all.... Cant wait till next week...

  • May 28, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Awful meets awesome -

    by john

    The amazing last 5 minutes saved a boring, uninteresting episode. Can't wait for next week!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    the goldbergv (SPOILERS FOR THIS EPISODE!)

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Yes, The Doc knows now. Amy told the real Doc without realizing.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Cybermats

    by moody by nature

    Any one catch the mention?

  • May 28, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Trailer for episode 7 - follow the link, guys!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_NLjHUKEro Just looks fantastic!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 1:49 p.m. CST

    River Song is Silver Nemesis

    by HornOrSilk

    Joke for those in the know

  • Avoi this talkback until you see it

  • As a US Who fan, I'll be watching in about 10 minutes.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Thanks Sam!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    That trailer looks awesome. The gap between episodes seven and eight is going to HURT LIKE HELL.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:54 p.m. CST

    I use the term cunt liberally.

    by V'Shael

    The warning is for our American readers.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:55 p.m. CST

    Spoiler warning for US readers

    by donkey_lasher

    If you don't pay attention to that statement in BIG RED LETTERS, then you deserve it.

  • May 28, 2011, 1:56 p.m. CST

    V'Shael: Are you talking about Moody By Nature?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    If so, I agree that his subject headline is incredibly spoilerific. Should have put that in the main body of your post, buddy!

  • I spoke too soon. But, I already know it's good

  • May 28, 2011, 1:57 p.m. CST

    Spoilers

    by donkey_lasher

    Amy was snatched in the toilets of the white house?

  • May 28, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Woah there V'Shael

    by theGoldbergV

    I think by the rules of the internet once something has aired, its no longer a spoiler. If we can't discuss the episode, then why even have a talkback?

  • May 28, 2011, 1:59 p.m. CST

    Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    I will be watching it soon... but I don't care about spoilers. I am odd. I am more of a Columbo kind of person. I like knowing the end and finding out how one gets there...

  • May 28, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    And as a side note as I am waiting -- Crime of the Century

    by HornOrSilk

    I'm digging the audio. I'm 1/2 through it. Much better than Ice Time, imo.

  • May 28, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig... now you know...

    by Kelvington

    why I named my company that. That phrase always made me smile! I think they should have balanced the episodes out more, there is NO EXCUSE for last week not being a the kind of romp this one was. But that must have been one hell of a confusing shoot.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Fuck Spoilers! The Kandyman from HAPPINESS PATROL returns at the end of the episode!!!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I don't care who I've ruined it for. Seventh Doctor fans rejoice!

  • May 28, 2011, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Christian Bale -- you forgot

    by HornOrSilk

    The Kandyman came back with the Destroyer and the Hand of Omega...

  • May 28, 2011, 2:06 p.m. CST

    7 minutes!!!

    by Perigee

    Wheee!

  • May 28, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    CBTML- no worries mate!!! Looks fucking terrific!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 2:10 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Sheesh. I wasn't going to spoil EVERYTHING about the ending, y'know. Way to go, buddy. *Tsk*

  • May 28, 2011, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Ok. I'm watching now

    by HornOrSilk

    Will pause from time to time to comment, maybe.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:12 p.m. CST

    GERANIMO

    by Perigee

  • May 28, 2011, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Being a 4th Doc fan I smore buzzed with baker than McCoy....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...but hearing them both was truly epic! The 3rd Doc "catchphrase" (which he only said once by the way) said by Matt Smith was funny as fuck!

  • May 28, 2011, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Would that be the Nightmare Child then ???

    by dj_bollocks

    Hmmmm ?

  • May 28, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    You are right, sam

    by HornOrSilk

    That was a GREAT scene. Of course, I love ALL the Doctors. In the late 80s, Sly was actually my favorite Doctor despite his stories. Ok, back to the show.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Spoiler... and the time for debate is over...

    by Kelvington

    You see that's how you do a voice. Nothing ambiguous no fucking debates, that is how it's done! So time for you to pay up! Ship that toy to Chicago, so I can get my fiver!

  • May 28, 2011, 2:18 p.m. CST

    SPOILERISH QUESTION INSIDE...!

    by sam jacksons wig

    So, if the sonic screwdriver melts the Gangers flesh, why hasn't Amy melted before now?

  • May 28, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Twas an exciting cliff hanger.

    by Smashing

    Twas also an OK episode though felt like it could have been a really well paced excellent single story. Roll on next Saturday.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST

    oh damn

    by notspock2

  • May 28, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Sam Jackson's Wig (SPOILERISH ANSWER INSIDE)

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I got the impression it was deliberately set to destroy Gangerjenny and therefore took out the others. I don't think its normal setting would do anything.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:21 p.m. CST

    sorry for the spoiler. eek.

    by notspock2

  • May 28, 2011, 2:22 p.m. CST

    DID YOU MEAN "MELT ARMY", NOTSPOCK?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

  • May 28, 2011, 2:23 p.m. CST

    Ah well

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I tried to save you notspock but your second comment kind of negated my save. Ha.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:24 p.m. CST

    I meant that.

    by notspock2

    but i am a fool.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:29 p.m. CST

    OH MY GOD (EPIC SPOILER FOR EPISODE TO FOLLOW)

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    On Gallifrey Base, someone is saying that, during one of the Eye Patch Woman's scenes, "there was a clipboard with writing that said "Amy Pond - Pregnant with Gallifrey"." Can anyone confirm this? What does that even mean?

  • May 28, 2011, 2:33 p.m. CST

    It means, Christian, that Nemesis has revealed all

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 28, 2011, 2:34 p.m. CST

    What's STAR TREK: NEMESIS got to do with this?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Do I need to watch that movie again to understand? Please don't make me watch that movie again. Please.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:38 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights....

    by Kelvington

    You should tell them to pull the other one, it has bells on it. No clipboard tonight, or any previous night that I saw.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:40 p.m. CST

    All shall be mine, Christian

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 28, 2011, 2:40 p.m. CST

    CBTML- it could just be referring to the origin of where it came from.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Not necessarily the actual place itself. But if what you're saying is right, and even if what I am suggesting has a smattering of truth, the the confirmation of WHO the baby is makes so much fucking sense!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Kelvington. It's REAL

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Just been proved. http://i55.tinypic.com/2m67b5u.jpg

  • May 28, 2011, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Okay, you can hurt me now.

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I know it's photoshopped. Made me laugh though.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:52 p.m. CST

    The fucking spammers have finally arrived here!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    They must have smelled the traffic.....

  • May 28, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    CB- Very fucking good!!!!! Funny as fuck!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 28, 2011, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Oh, I didn't make that, Sam

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    It was done by someone else over on GB. I'm in the middle of telling the original poster of this "Pregnant With Gallifrey" nonsense that he's an idiot (as he obviously made this thing up). I hate it when people get me excited about something and then let me down. I used to have a girlfriend who did it all the time.

  • May 28, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Prequel to next week's ep...

    by dj_bollocks

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00h74x2

  • May 28, 2011, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Excellent. (Spoiler)

    by Perigee

    And, may I point out, I Toldja so. Several Times. Peephole, same eye level; Train Tracks. Beam me up, Moff. The Yankee in the Doctors court awaits a paycheck. ~LOL~

  • May 28, 2011, 3:02 p.m. CST

    One thing I'm really liking about Moff's run (SORT OF SPOILERS WITHIN)

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Is the regular callbacks to previous incarnations. Now, I know that RTD did this twice (HUMAN NATURE and THE NEXT DOCTOR) but Moff's been doing it pretty constantly throughout his run. I really appreciated the callbacks to the First. Third, Fourth and Tenth Doctor at the beginning of this episode. I never liked RTD's idea that "some new man goes sauntering away" as though each incarnation of The Doctor wasn't the same person.

  • I wonder how long "that" was on board the TARDIS? And, thank god for that trailer on YouTube, since there was none this week.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    NOT AVAILABLE IN MY AREA?????!!!

    by Perigee

    Alright - that's it. The tea - right the hell back in the harbor, then...

  • May 28, 2011, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Ok. Finished it. Spoiler Discussion

    by HornOrSilk

    The ending explains quite a bit. Yes, the sonic screwdriver *can* be set to destroy the flesh, but it has to be made to do so to do so. And so Amy has been living through flesh, and the TARDIS has sensed Amy is pregnant while the flesh is not. Got it. Makes sense. As for the baby, it's River, in all probability. And River was made to be a weapon -- against the Doctor? To trap him? If so, then the weapon was made in such a way it can go beyond its directives, because it must love the Doctor to be successful? I think that might work.

  • Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  • May 28, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Prequel for Americans

    by HornOrSilk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkRdkUUE45M

  • May 28, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Prequel Spoilers

    by HornOrSilk

    So, the prequel is suggesting it is the Doctor's child?Or is it? I don't know. What do you think?

  • May 28, 2011, 3:10 p.m. CST

    axcel1

    by HornOrSilk

    I think we will find out, he has known for a long time.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    axcel1

    by HornOrSilk

    As for how long has it been aboard? I think since Amy was taken by the Silents.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    SILENCE WILL FALL ACROSS THE UK AT AROUND 7:30PM NEXT WEEK

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    And then the crying will begin. Anyone know when the second half of this season starts up again?

  • May 28, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Thanks, hornorsilk

    by Perigee

    You've saved the Tea. Or the harbor. One or the other...

  • May 28, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Now THAT'S more like it!!!

    by SISKOKID

    I have commented before about how Matts interpretation of the Doc was a bit off. You can get too much of the twirling and babbling-I wanted to see a more rounded Doc, with more nuances and colours. BOY, IT WE GET IT!! Not since back in the Eleventh Hour did I enjoy WHO so much. The measured, thoughtful and in turn even sinister doctor portrayal was a much needed change of pace-long may it continue. In turn Karen Gillan stepping up to the plate to give her best performance for a long time. I agree when it felt that this weeks installment seemed to be from a different writer-just so much better. The twists and turns this week piqued my interest, an interest which was generally on the wane this season. Just can't wait till next week-HOORAH!!!

  • May 28, 2011, 3:14 p.m. CST

    I'm guessing Sept 17th or 24th

    by dj_bollocks

  • May 28, 2011, 3:17 p.m. CST

    I don't think so, Hornorsilk

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I think he's referring to The Doctor through association with Amy, as in: "You've stolen the child of The Doctor's companion? Are you MAD?"

  • May 28, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    err, DID WE GET IT! of course (ahem)

    by SISKOKID

  • May 28, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST

    siskokid

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I totally agree! Can you believe that this episode and the previous one were written by the same guy? Unbelievable. I think Smith has been constantly great, personally, but he definitely stepped up his game here. The two Doctors together were absolutely fantastic.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    You are welcome, perigee

    by HornOrSilk

    I had to find it myself, of course. But I found it.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by HornOrSilk

    Of course that is how we think of it. And it is most likely that way. However, the other interpretation is there. And in some ways, maybe the Doctor will be like the "third sex" of alien nation for Amy and Rory via the TARDIS. In some ways, maybe it is his child, because he brought them on the TARDIS.

  • May 28, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    The two Doctors together

    by HornOrSilk

    Great indeed. Worked so well. But I can believe it is the same writer. Set up can sometimes be tedious and some writers are better after set up than the set up.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:08 p.m. CST

    **SPOILERS**

    by SISKOKID

    Is it possible that the Doc created the faux Amy himself as a decoy, but when the contractions started it was time (perhaps) to retrieve the real one? Spose we'll find out next week....

  • May 28, 2011, 4:13 p.m. CST

    siskokid

    by HornOrSilk

    Not too likely. 1) he was trying to learn about the flesh, which, if he made the flesh-Amy, he wouldn't need to do (or I presume he wouldn't). 2) the mid-wife seems to be someone who the Doctor is fighting, which, again, is unlikely if he created the flesh-Amy as a decoy

  • May 28, 2011, 4:25 p.m. CST

    *spoilers* my read on the ending

    by mukhtabi

    I suspect in the prior episode when everybody blacked out Amy was abducted. That nurse observer looks like she might be an iteration of cyberman. What they cybermen have to do with wanting a child clearly imprinted with the galifreyan version of DNA is the question here. I look forward though to seeing who it is river song murders and my gut tells me that this is all part of the full-circle aspect of the story. Now I'm really curious who she murders in episode 7 or 8...

  • May 28, 2011, 4:32 p.m. CST

    mukhtabi

    by HornOrSilk

    I think the abduction and change happened with the Silent. The Doctor went to where he did to find out about the flesh. Amy was already a ganger-Amy. The big time when there was a change-over was when she was taken by the Silent. Before, she was pregnant. After, the ganger-duplicate wasn't.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Watched it again with head phones and a quiet room

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Felt a much better pace and some interesting things:- 1) The Doctor gives the ganger a sonic but then appears to have another one...does he carry a spare ? 2) "When SHE tells you to push--push" This does hint at some foreknowledge from the Doctor but how ? Quotes:- "Do we tend to say Yowzer ?" "Nice Barrel--very comfy" "Well you did want to plug your brain into the core of a planet and change its orbit--just for a bet" "You should have chocolate for breakfast- if you don't feel sick by mid morning you aren't doing it right" "I'm quite handsome from this angle" "I never thought it possible--you are twice the man I thought you were" "Beautiful word shenanigans" Must say on reflection this was quite dark for kids--Jen killing Buzz and the corridor of eyes--the little moppets won't be sleeping comfy tonight. !!

  • May 28, 2011, 4:35 p.m. CST

    Honorsilk

    by mukhtabi

    That's a very good point you raise there. Also just saw next week's preview on Youtube. I'm suspecting the 'good man' of the title is in fact Rory and not the doctor. I hate to think that River will kill Rory trying to take down the doctor...

  • May 28, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    mukhtabi

    by HornOrSilk

    I've been thinking the good man is Rory, too. It could be the Doctor, but, I think Rory makes as much sense, if not more. He's been so good, while the Doctor really has been to war many times.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    The three most hated words in all of time and space...

    by DrMeyer

    TO BE CONTINUED!

  • May 28, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Heh. Those two... (Spoilers)

    by Perigee

    All dressed up like Jedi... ...Yes, of course its them. Rory is becoming quite the boy wonder, isn't he? Standing up for himself, and even backing off of Amy when The Doctor says to - even though Amy says not to. Quite manly in the coming attractions, too. Amy won't know what to do with him, now that he stands up on his hind legs and all. Boy, is she in for a shock... "Oi! Yourrrre Laaate forr Dinner!' "I was busy. You have a problem with that..?" Blink...Blink... I'm gonna miss that boy when he's gone. And yeah, he will be. Goodbye Ponds. They have a child to raise, and after all this I'm pretty sure Amy's ready to give up her little blue box. The Doctor as Mary Poppins; putting the family right, and "oogha"-ing off to next season.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    The Doctor scanning Amy

    by HornOrSilk

    I wonder if there is something in it now which will be able to be read as "Amy living in a ganger." The Doctor, it seems, was trying to trace the flesh -- he wasn't confused about the pregnancy at all. That, at least, is my current take.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Wow

    by clupula

    I totally did not see that coming. I can't wait to show my roommate this episode. As an American, I am thankful for streaming media.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:51 p.m. CST

    SPOILERS! (for all you poor yanks you ;)

    by Seph_J

    ************** and indeed certain easy to comeby *SPOILERS* for episode 7 too ************** Well, what to say...is it possible that this Demon's Run business is behind the Alliance? And my mind keeps drifting back to the Daleks in The Pandorica Opens' believing quite firmly that "ON-LY THE DOC-TOR CAN PI-LOT THE TAR-DIS!" Can someone clear this up for me.... the incident of the Doctor destroying the Universe that the Alliance were so sure was going to happen.... did it happen? Was that the Big Bang 2? or the "every sun turning supernova at every moment in time?" Would the Alliance have survived the Big Bang 2? Goodness me, I didn't realise how many questions I still had from the end of last series.......

  • May 28, 2011, 4:51 p.m. CST

    @daldiggler and thecomedian re: Cushing

    by Danél Griffin

    I do really like the idea of Cushing as the 10th's clone. That said, my favorite idea is still the one in the "Five O'Clock Shadow" short story. Here's the scenario, from drwhoguide.com: "The Doctor tells a bedtime story to his companion: The TARDIS runs out of Time to travel through, trapping the Doctor and his grand-daughter in an eternal 5:00 a.m., the darkest hour, when even all of the Doctor’s ideas and imagination aren’t enough to push the TARDIS on to the next minute. In this state, they are confronted by the evil Five O’Clock Shadow, the embodiment of grief and sorrow deferred, which rises stronger than ever in the bleak hours of the morning when there are no other distractions. The Doctor has deferred his own melancholy for too long by using the TARDIS to create fictional companions for himself, such as John and Gillian and his own grand-daughter; but now he’s stumbled into his own 5:00 a.m., and the Shadow is free. Or so it thinks until Dr. Who reveals that he, and his eight-year-old grand-daughter Suzy, are both fictional creations, made by the real Doctor to keep the Shadow distracted until he could escape. The Shadow has no hold over the cheerful, angst-free Dr. Who, who departs with Suzy on further childlike and wondrous adventures. This is the end of the poem -- but the Shadow knows that the real Doctor is still deferring his pain, and will one day have to face the Shadow on his own..." I also liked Cushing's own theory, which is my preferred theory about him being a future incarnation stuck in some sort of holodeck by an enemy; Cushing believed it was probably the Celestial Toymaker.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:53 p.m. CST

    seph_j

    by HornOrSilk

    I'm think we will find out Rory was somehow instrumental in the creation of the alliance. I could, of course, be wrong.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:54 p.m. CST

    That the first episode of the current series...

    by penhapus

    ...that I've really enjoyed in a this-is-just-brilliant fashion; as the second part of the story it more than made up for the lacklustre first half (works better as a whole; much better) and the ending explained an awful lot of the 'clever' stuff in the previous five episodes without seeming forced... I'm sure there is a good reason why the Doctor didn't rescue Amy on day one, mind...

  • May 28, 2011, 4:56 p.m. CST

    oh, and I watch this with a five year old...

    by penhapus

    ...the scary stuff is just entertainment; they like monsters.

  • May 28, 2011, 4:57 p.m. CST

    *SPECULATIVE SPOILERS* (hmm, I like that term)

    by Seph_J

    So horn, do you think that the events of 'a good man' going 'to war' will somehow unite the galaxy against the doctor thereby forming the Alliance? And if so.... does that mean that when the Alliance is defeated (as they surely will be this time round) they then run off and construct the Pandorica and set into motion the events of the previous series? If so, surely they must be incredibly stupid...?

  • May 28, 2011, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Anyone for a jelly baby? (spoiliers, sweety)

    by MoffatBabies

    Wow, the review here made my expectations pretty low and this one really blew me away. Thanks!! Anyone seen the "prequel"? Can it be seen from the US? If not, where "can" it be seen? (nudge nudge wink wink) See, now my excitement for this series is up in the clouds rather than just the rafters. There was so much there to digest, to re-watch. Was that a sample of our 4rth Doctor (my first)? Or a recreation? Brilliant moment. And the episode itself was full of pretty powerful emotional moments. My only complaint was a very odd edit, with a pause almost long enough for the cast to stop, look at each other, look around and then look directly into the camera. Even the score halted early, leaving this odd empty moment. (for hilarity and depending on how creative you get with it, possible momentary youtube fame, you can find the clip at about 9:00min in, commercial free "I have a plan, and it'll destroy them ALL"...pause...pause...paaaauuse.. cut) But other than that minor quibble, this was top notch Who. Really good stuff. Surprising, considering that part one was just good, decent. I'm going to edit them together and cut out the "previously" bits, just for fun, to watch it as a whole and see how it plays. If I am feeling really risky, I'll post the edit to the pirate bay anonymously. I'll call it "Doctor Who - The Almost Fleshy Edit". It'll be a WMV though. And do not expect HD quality, just decent quality. Watchable. Nah, I changed my mind, I won't do that. (wink wink) Actually, I think it would be a lot of fun to join up the other recent multi-parters. For someone. To do. Other than me. For fun and not profit. Please do not sue that person. Am I alone in thinking this was one of the better episodes of the last 2 series? Am I alone in thinking this is not the last we'll see of the GangerDoctor? Did anyone catch any other call-backs to previous episodes? What was that bit about merging(?) with a planet to win a bet? I loved the "all ears" joke and the reference to just being a Smith. I lol'd. Can't wait to read what everyone else thought, but that's my initial 3 cents.

  • May 28, 2011, 5 p.m. CST

    penhapus.... *ep 6 SPOILERS*

    by Seph_J

    he didn't rescue Amy immediately as he was likely waiting for her to 'go into labour'. Which is why he dismissed finding the 'timechild' at the end of Day of the Moon, and instead bided his time with piratey adventures and the like. But when she started having contractions... he thought, right... the child is now in the hands of Amys captors.... time to go sort this shit out.... I think, anyway.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:02 p.m. CST

    moffat babies.... link for the prequel

    by Seph_J

    was given further up.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkRdkUUE45M

  • May 28, 2011, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Seph_J

    by HornOrSilk

    Remember, somehow we have two time lines working together (or so it seems), and some events in this series will happen before what we saw last season. What I believe happens is that the alliance will come together. We will see why they thought the Doctor was going to destroy the universe, how they were able to come together. And somehow, Rory is behind it all. This is why he is dressed as a Roman. I could be wrong. I probably am. However, with River being out of synch with the Doctor, it would make sense that the alliance itself is as well.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:02 p.m. CST

    Has anyone else noticed that the score has been

    by MoffatBabies

    just slightly less annoying and intrusive? I have. Either that or it's been so much better in other ways, I don't notice it as much.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:03 p.m. CST

    seph_j Thank you Thank you Thank you!

    by MoffatBabies

    And thank you.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:04 p.m. CST

    It will come down to the Doctor or Amy's Baby (spoilers!)

    by tangcameo

    The scan we keep seeing will somehow be later explained that either the Doctor can exist or Amy's child can exist but they cannot BOTH exist. Well of course The Doctor doesn't like that so he tries to save Amy's Baby by taking it to Earth to see The Silents and asking them to take care of the baby by giving it a way to survive while he survives (hence the spacesuit they found her in). And he spends the next 200 years of his life trying to save Amy's baby. He finally comes to the conclusion that to save the child he must die (I'm guessing by that time we'll see a grown-up daughter of Amy) and so it's Amy's daughter, still living in that suit to survive, who comes out of that lake and kills the Doctor, because he asked her to, in order for her to survive. Which makes me think that River killed Rory who believes (believed?) he had no choice but to kill the Doctor to save his daughter.

  • Very good! 2leggedfreak - I had the exact same thought, I even rewatched it to make sure that was the case, but I assumed the Flesh had created a sonic for Doctor-nate (Alternate Doctor) along with a watch and what not. If the people who produce the Fleshlight don't hire Karen as their spokesperson, they are crazy! Or maybe Rory? Hello, I'm Rory Pond and I fucked a Fleshbot ganger for nearly three months, and it was CRAZY!!! mukhtabi - Oh... I like that it's Rory and the Doctor... very clever! hornorsilk - I think you are right, that is what the scanner was doing and he needed to know more about the Flesh to get her frequency so he could find the REAL Amy. Odd they would do a double Amy story so closely to doing the Time & Space mini-episodes. Possible SPOILERS - I hope it's not the Doctor's daughter, but the idea of a TARDIS turkey baster having some input might be cool. So Famy (Fake Amy or Flesh Amy) sees the woman with the eye patch because REAL AMY does. This woman sort of pushes through into Famy's reality. But where did the Silents get Flesh in 1969? If it was around then, why not just make flesh do stuff for you, instead of hypnotize humans to make a spacesuit? And if they used their TARDIS to go to the future to get Flesh, then why couldn't they just go somewhere where spacesuits had already been invented? The other things we know is, there's an aborted timeline, and Amy kills the one eyed-nurse in that aborted timeline. We have also been told that we won't see the child again. So with that said, my first guesses are, River is in the Spacesuit doing what she was created for, killing the Doctor. Perhaps the hut and the man behind the car were just a production error, but fuck me, that was a bad one. The Cybermen (real cybermen) will do something that will cause the timelines to split, and that will be the crux of mid-series finale. No Bets, no bets!

  • May 28, 2011, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Mmmmm. (spoilers again)

    by MoffatBabies

    That prequel/teaser was tasty. Much to digest. Sentient money? lol!! Sentient money is cool! Like fezzes and stetsons. Oh I really do hope that hornorsilk is right. Exciting!

  • May 28, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Do we really know we won't see the child again?

    by MoffatBabies

    For sure? That would be a terrible outcome to what was a tremendous tease.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Spoiler conjecture

    by penhapus

    I think the 'how the Alliance came together' theory holds water; and explains the bad guys that have been on the Who front page this week...

  • May 28, 2011, 5:11 p.m. CST

    Merrick - you're Genius! Gotlik and I are proud of your plan!

    by wtriker1701

    To have a weekly docback aside from that nasty wait for the second half of season 6! moffatbabies would concur, I presume... ;-)

  • May 28, 2011, 5:12 p.m. CST

    tangcameo

    by MoffatBabies

    Wrong or not, that would be a brilliant resolution.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:13 p.m. CST

    The Whoverse

    by MoffatBabies

    or Whoniverse, is dominating talkback. Nice. I wonder if by next week we can put 4 in the top ten. I know it's a silly game, but still fun.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    wtriker1701

    by MoffatBabies

    I would assume, if we could confirm that my ganger is still walking the earth, that you are absolutely correct !!

  • May 28, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    Classic Who recommendations.

    by GenreBoy

    The Dalek Invasion of Earth; It's rough- classic Terry Nation stuff. The War Machines, cause it introduces Anneke Willis (too hot) (have yet to see troughton stuff; i'm still catching up) Jon pertwee-The Dalek Box set, Terror of the Autons, the Planet of the Spiders, an the Beneath the surface box set. The 3 Doctors. Tom Baker-Robot, Ark in space, The Sontaran experiment, Genisis of the Daleks, The Brain of Morbius, Seeds of Doom, Deadly Assasin, Planet of evil, Talons of wheng chiang, CITY OF DEATH(By Douglas Adams, just all manner a' fun) , Destiny of the daleks (just to see robots that look like Rick James.) Peter Davison-Black Orchid (Which you can see influenced The Unicorn & the Wasp), EarthShock, Arc of infinity (ties back to the 3 doctors) The Five Doctors, Resurrection of the daleks, Planet of Fire (Best INTRO for a Companion. Ever. Well, it's right up there with Amy's leggy appearance in the 11th Hour.) CAVES OF ANDROZANI Colin Baker-Attack of the cybermen, Revelation of the daleks, and the Trial of a Timelord series. Slyvestor Mccoy-Rememberance of the Daleks Paul Mcgann's 8th doctor film. However, granted alot of these episodes, vary for people and these are the only ones i like. An for me, along w/ the episode's come the special features that are great simply because it puts alot into context, from parodies to why the show had great ups and truly bad downs. And i only started watching these after New-Who. I wanted to get the full experience myself. I cant wait for some of the eps classic eps that're comin out soon, the Zygons. but thats my long 2 cents worth.

  • The Doctor knew about his death. He said so toward the end, before they left the island. As for the Ganger-Amy, she was the one who saw the Doctor die.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Geez ::spoilers::

    by Gherkin

    TWO major twists. Didn't see either one of them coming. <br> Swapping of the doctors was very clever and now I have to go watch the episode again. <br> I get the impression that real Amy was connected to flesh-Amy in some fashion (more like a "surrogate" from the Bruce Willis movie, than a separate individual). Else why would the doctor kill/dissolve her? <br> Great episode, though. <br> Watching the preview for next week, Rory dressed in his Centurion garb again? Sweet. The Summer hiatus is going to really suck.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Can Amy & Rory bring up a timelord ??

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Probably only until a certain age and then the Doc would have to look after her. She'll probably be called Susan and he'll call her his grand-daughter. Its the kind of timey wimey stuff Moffatt would love.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    moffatbabies ... well we certainly won't see...

    by Kelvington

    THAT child again, since she regenerated. We might see what she became. Which in that way makes sense, since we have been told we won't see "that" child again.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Thanks! I think we'll see more of FBI and The Silents

    by tangcameo

    Anyone who comes to burn a Time Lords body has got to have more story than just those two episodes. Plus after all the "Silence/Silents Will Fall" and setting up a whole alien race on Earth just to kick them off the planet by part 2 seems a waste. There's got to be a reason why they had the girl. Methinks its because of the Doctor who may have played them with their own mindtrick.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Amy Spoilers

    by HornOrSilk

    Well, we must remember, as the Doctor said, the real Amy was being "broadcast" through the flesh Amy. She thought what was happening to the flesh was her. It's why he told her he would find her. He said he was looking for the connection. He now found it, so he can disconnect it without fear.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:20 p.m. CST

    I have a fondness for McCoy and Ace

    by MoffatBabies

    No matter the budgetary limitations, his performance was always great. So sad that so much of it looks like it was shot with home video equipment.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:20 p.m. CST

    In this way

    by HornOrSilk

    We must not think of "flesh Amy" is not Amy. It is Amy. She is living in and through it, just like the rest did BEFORE the storms. The real question is how she was able to continue to be connected AFTER the storm.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:22 p.m. CST

    moffatbabies

    by HornOrSilk

    I love the Doctor and Ace together. Yes, the budget was pathetic. Oh well. Still, I am enjoying "Crime of the Century." I hope the second half is as enjoyable. Raine seems interesting in it, and certainly would have been a nice touch for the show to have a companion like her on screen.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:23 p.m. CST

    This is a must re-watch.

    by MoffatBabies

    I may watch this one 3 times by the end of the weekend. And then get some... maybe a little... sunshine?

  • May 28, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by MoffatBabies

    Loved Ace's spunk. The girl had a darkness in her. Very different from all of the other companions.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Whooosh Huurrr, whooosh hurrrr...

    by MoffatBabies

    (TARDIS noise) I'm out for a while. Will be back later to read ALL of it. It's an obsession. Some smart people in here. You should all get together and write some original fanfic. (I hate that term, but it is what it is) Sometimes, what you people come up with is better than the way things turn out.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    I've been listening to the 5th radio eps on BBC4X

    by tangcameo

    They may be a year old but they're new to me in Canada. I love them! Makes me wonder why I pay for cable tv. Especially when Space repeats 11th Doctor episodes online.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:31 p.m. CST

    ON THE NEXT TIME TRAILER.....

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Was it me or was River wearing a military outfit during that brief clip?

  • May 28, 2011, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Gangers and Astronauts...

    by wtriker1701

    The solution's is right out there, folks!

  • May 28, 2011, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Moffatbabies

    by HornOrSilk

    You will probably laugh at these nerdy pictures from 1992 http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/11/13/37/51/henry_10.jpg http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/11/13/37/51/henry_11.jpg http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/11/13/37/51/henry_13.jpg And this from 1993 http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/11/13/37/51/henry_12.jpg Yes, I enjoyed meeting Sophie and Sly. Of course, when I first met Sly, Craig Charles was also there, and Craig and Sly had an all night pool party right outside of my hotel room door. I didn't go to it, but I heard it all night.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:37 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by HornOrSilk

    It was hard to see River, so it was hard to see how she was dressed. However, I still think she is living through events a second time around, which is why she can say what she is saying.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    kelvington, MATE (*SPOILERS for ep7 & beyond*)

    by Seph_J

    would it kill you to write *ep7 SPOILERS* in your heading? I mean all this "we've been told we will/won't see the child again blah blah" bullshit. I mean... I certainly haven't been told that.... and, quite truthfully, would be very peeved with someone who did.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:41 p.m. CST

    seph_j

    by HornOrSilk

    I think we will see the child again since we see Amy's baby in the trailer. But I could be wrong.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Wow that was unexpectedly awesome...

    by Wldmk

    While I found the previous ep to be more or less ok, came in with lower than usual expectations. Nice to be surprised sometimes, and can't wait for the next one. Maybe just my opinion, but Matt Smith was just outright phenomenal in this one. Just out of curiosity, (spoiler alert I guess), anyone know which doc it was that said that Jelly baby line? Also, a memo to dioxholster: Stargate, at least for the foreseeable future, is finished. A shame, but nothing any of us can really do about it. Now, as a longtime fan who's gotten seriously fed up having to read your constant junk, you are cordially invited to at least try to get a life, STFU and knock it with trolling forums and giving the rest of us a bad rep already.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Not feeling this series as much

    by Candy ass monkey suit

    Im really not feeling this series as much as the last, I'm a bit fed up with Moffats overly complicated plots and story structure, call me old fashioned but i just like a good ole classic who story!! The woman with the eye patch looks like something RTD would have come up with and i'm getting a bit bored of moffats schtick to be honest.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:51 p.m. CST

    the spoiler rules, as I see it

    by Seph_J

    and please, if I've got this horribly wrong, someone jump right in and set me straight. But I feel that this is just a basic common courtesy thing - a 'gentlemens understanding', as it were. For the benefit of the viewers in america, when discussing the episode that hs just aired here in the UK, you write *SPOILER* in the subject line, to alert those who haven't had the chance to see it yet. Am I right so far? Secondly, theres the other type of spoiler. The one that HASN'T been broadcast and which comes from a 'source' or website. Cast lists, production crews spouting their mouths off, photos taken on set and leaked etc. These most definitely are the definition of SPOILER and should always be labelled as such - preferably with a little detail such as *SPOILER FOR EP7 and BEYOND* - but labelled clearly nontheless. Is this not the way it works? Have I grossly misunderstood??

  • May 28, 2011, 5:52 p.m. CST

    wldmk *ep6 SPOILER*

    by Seph_J

    Tom baker said it.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Sorry seph_j ... you are right my apologies...

    by Kelvington

    But we were told that way back in Episode II TIA, so I didn't think of that as a spoiler. My bad! On that front, did you think after the kid regenerated you WOULD see that kid again? Typically regeneration means it's the last time you see that person (except for the RTD era). LOL

  • May 28, 2011, 5:57 p.m. CST

    I am actually enjoying this series much more

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I loved Season Five but, so far, this season is five for six (I didn't enjoy "Rebel Flesh" half as much as "The Almost People" - and yes, I actually quite liked the pirate one) in my eyes. I really enjoyed the cracks in time / Pandorica storyline but this season is so much more intriguing to me, especially with the ending of the episode we've just seen. I don't think Moffat's plots are overly complicated, personally. They intrigue me and make me think, and I've been enjoying the answers we're being given. I love the fact that Season Five seemingly provided 99% of the answers, whilst Season Six has shown that it actually only provided 59%. This is the type of science fiction television I've wanted to watch for ages, and I can't believe how good things have become. I really loved the RTD seasons but, looking back on them now, they were childsplay compared to Moff's stuff.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Worst child actor in the Universe.

    by David Cloverfield

    Made me want to smash the screen. Not a great episode, but a great cliffhanger.

  • May 28, 2011, 5:58 p.m. CST

    kelv *SPOILERS*

    by Seph_J

    With Moffat, there could be every chance we will see that kid again.... The kid has just regenerated, but we're still going to (presumably) see her as a baby, which (unless my understand of the world is catastrophically skewed) would come before her being a kid...

  • May 28, 2011, 6 p.m. CST

    bale

    by Seph_J

    "you said it, mate." (again, a fucking giant imaginary Toblerone for anyone who gets THAT quote!)

  • May 28, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Yes, I am enjoying this series much more than 5

    by HornOrSilk

    People will remember how I criticized the opening of last year. I think 11th Hour, Vincent and the Doctor, and the ending of the season was the best of it, the rest felt weak, rushed, and the budget problems could be sensed throughout as episodes just seemed cut short just to use lose money on them. This season, it feels they have adjusted to the new budget, know how to use it for the story so as not to have to have the 'this feels 10 mins short' feel I got last year, and the arch is better, more sophisticated (but not too complex). I like archs. I am a fan of Babylon 5 because of its proper use of them. Doctor Who deserves to use them too, and, well, I think where the arch shows up in this season, it really fits better than the "lets ram in the crack now" we got last year.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:04 p.m. CST

    "lets ram in the crack now"

    by Seph_J

    *snigger*

  • May 28, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    River's outfit

    by McBegbie

    From the brief glimpse in the trailer it looks very victorian/turn of the century

  • May 28, 2011, 6:07 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    You know, I'd forgotten about the fact that several episodes last season felt as though they were ten minutes too short. I haven't thought that at all about this season. On an unrelated note, I watched AMY'S CHOICE again today. I've now watched it seven times since it first aired. I completely love that episode!

  • May 28, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    What's the actual reason for the break in the season?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Is it because of budget? Also: Anyone know when LUTHER comes back? The first season was brilliant and Idris Elba is fast becoming one of my favorite British actors.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Thanks Seph. Also, am I alone in thinking that maybe...

    by Wldmk

    ...the regenerating child is actually an issue and storyline which is separate from Amy's pregnancy story (possibly linked at a later point in the season and mostly a red herring atm)? Seeing how the Silents have basically been referred to as super-parasites, in that they use other races' technologies, it makes more sense to me that the regenerating kid would be tied to their "Tardis-like" vessel (as it was described when we saw it in season 5, and whose origin is still unanswered) which they somehow got/stole, much more than Amy's pregnancy...

  • May 28, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Series Break

    by McBegbie

    I doubt it's budget related. I seem to recall reading something about it being because of Moffat's storyline. Could also be partly because of Torchwood airing over the summer.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST

    The reason for the break

    by HornOrSilk

    I don't think it is budget. I think the claim is to try to have double the excitement, to have what is like "two finales."

  • May 28, 2011, 6:15 p.m. CST

    bale... most probably

    by Seph_J

    because kids go to the beach and hang out with their friends and go to Alton Towers in the summer..... whereas in September they're in, and readdddy to contribute to viewing figures.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:16 p.m. CST

    wldmk

    by Seph_J

    yeah.... the basic simplicity of Amys baby being the regenerating Timekid just seems to basic and... simple. But it depends how it's done and what's at stake later on I suppose.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:23 p.m. CST

    wldmk/seph_jAmy's Baby

    by McBegbie

    Could be a red herring but I've a feeling it won't be. Why have the pictures in the room at the orphanage? It's most likely that Amy was taken between Impossible Astronaut and Day of the Moon as she first saw Eye Patch in DotM.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    The flesh

    by HornOrSilk

    They never really explained (I don't think) where the flesh itself came from, did they? My guess is it was what was left-over from the creation of ganger-Amy. A company found it and decided to use it.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Suethk the Destroyer

    by bauerpowerhour24

    the tom baker pyramids of mars is a classic set of episodes love Suethk

  • May 28, 2011, 6:30 p.m. CST

    Pyramids of Mars

    by HornOrSilk

    I love the story SAVE for the final episode. That really was a weak ending, one of the weakest for the build up of all classic Who imo. However, what happened before it, and the powerful hand, all make up for it, to make it a good story.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:30 p.m. CST

    mcbegbie - Well it could be that *minor ep7 SPOILER*

    by Seph_J

    the Silents work for the Alliance, or whoever it is that behind all of the upcoming nastiness. When Amy wakes up in the hands of the Silents, they tell her "You are Amelia Pond." Affirming that the Ganger knows who she is supposed to be? They then say "We do you honour!" - presumably soemthing to do with the importance of the baby she is carrying.... I believe this is the first time we see GangerAmy.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:31 p.m. CST

    cont...

    by Seph_J

    "you will bring the silence" birth? "but your part will soon be over" after shes given birth shes expendable....?

  • May 28, 2011, 6:34 p.m. CST

    Not so seph_J

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    "I believe this is the first time we see GangerAmy" Amy sees Eye Patch Woman before that scene, suggesting that she's already been kidnapped by that point and is in the birthing cubicle. I'd say that she's kidnapped and replicated somewhere between "A Christmas Carol" and "The Impossible Astronaut".

  • May 28, 2011, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Seph_J

    by HornOrSilk

    The "ganger Amy" is not like some replica of Amy with its own separate living consciousness. It was created, like the pre-storm gangers, as a vehicle for the consciousness of Amy to control. She didn't know it was not her; she thought that was her body. This is why the Doctor had to tell her she is ok, safe, and he will find her before disconnecting her from the ganger-body.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:37 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by HornOrSilk

    No, I think the time she was kidnapped happened in Day of the Moon, when she was captured by the Silent. It was also here when she went from pregnant to "mistaken." The reason she goes to mistaken is she is now experiencing life in and through ganger-flesh, which is not pregnant.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:40 p.m. CST

    horn / bale

    by Seph_J

    horn: yes I figured that much out, thanks. bale: you are right. Damn, so when did the switcheroo take place then? hmmmm

  • May 28, 2011, 6:50 p.m. CST

    We first saw eye patch lady in the orphanage, right?

    by HornOrSilk

    If one watches, it seems there is a lot of time which happens when she is in there, enough to make many markings on her flesh. So, probably during that time there was the changeover.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:51 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Respectively disagree (as The Doctor would say). I'd say Amy knows that she's pregnant in "The Day Of The Moon" because she can feel it in her real body, but she's also away that her Flesh body isn't exhibiting any signs. This is the reason she initially goes to tell The Doctor that she's pregnant and then decides against it. I'm 95% certain that the real Amy has not appeared in any episode this season. Rory was living with a Flesh clone.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:52 p.m. CST

    The Beast Below

    by HornOrSilk

    One thing I keep thinking about -- The Beast Below seems to connect to this season more than we might think. I could be wrong. However, there still seems to be the whole "Amy crying on screen" bit, where something happened. What if it was Amy from the future telling her past to stop the Doctor? The whole "forget" aspect of Beast Below also makes me wonder if the Silent are also connected to the creation of the ship. Is there any place a Silent could be in it? Are they instilling commands, so they can themselves, flee?

  • May 28, 2011, 6:52 p.m. CST

    "away" = "aware"

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Damn lack of edit.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:54 p.m. CST

    bale

    by Seph_J

    maybe we should go back to series 5 and look for clues... perhaps the switch occured then.... might be a bit more easy stop, now we know what we're looking for.....?

  • May 28, 2011, 6:54 p.m. CST

    The Eye Patch Lady

    by HornOrSilk

    http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/eye-patch-lady-appearances-20760.htm

  • May 28, 2011, 6:56 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by HornOrSilk

    Amy says she is pregnant at the end of The Impossible Astronaut. However, it is only Day of the Moon she first sees the Eye Patch Lady. We know a lot of time went by between the two; so it could happen any time in that in between stage... we will find out, of course.

  • May 28, 2011, 6:58 p.m. CST

    horner

    by McBegbie

    I see where you're coming from but she's not necessarily in that room for any great length of time. If she was then surely Canton would have noticed? I still think it's between the two episodes that she's taken.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:01 p.m. CST

    mcbegbie

    by HornOrSilk

    Well, not necessarily, since we could be dealing with time travelers. So who knows? We will see.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Actually

    by McBegbie

    Amy is actually taken by them in DotM, but it's after she first sees Eye Patch Lady? I'm confused now. I love Dr Who.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:05 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I guess it also depends upon how much time has actually passed between "The Impossible Astronaut" and "The Almost People". It feels as though not much time has passed to me, which is why I think Amy's been gone a lot longer than you as she's quite noticeably pregnant when we see her at the end of "The Almost People". In addition, she holds her stomach and cries out in the final scenes of "The Impossible Astronaut" almost as though her pregnancy is coming to an end. However, you may well be correct and, if so, I will gracefully concede defeat when the moment comes.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Promo pics

    by HornOrSilk

    http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2011/05/good-man-goes-to-war-promo-pics.html For promo pictures for the next episode. Obviously, they are spoilers.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by HornOrSilk

    I seem to remember there were several months of flight after the end of the Impossible Planet. Like six months?

  • Steven Moffat said in DWC that we have not seen the real Amy this season (series).

  • May 28, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Er I meant, Astronaut, not Planet

    by HornOrSilk

  • that Flesh Amy has been in episodes 1-6. That implies she was replaced before the start of the season. The eliminates any theory where the Silents in the 20th or 21st century had to get access to Flesh from the 22nd century.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:14 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights ... SPOILERS...

    by Kelvington

    Hope that's plain enough. :) In the confidential tonight Beth Willis says, Amy has been a ganger from episodes 1 thru 6. Now without going all Paul McGann on this, I agree with the notion that she was kidnapped somewhere between the Chistmas episode and Episode 1 of this series. I'm sure we will see when it happened, if not next week, then in September.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Ok, I didn't watch Confidential.. so if that is the case

    by HornOrSilk

    I was wrong.

  • what a pity.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:20 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Six months for the girl left on Earth; not necessarily six months for the TARDIS crew. Time is relative.

  • May 28, 2011, 7:20 p.m. CST

    kelvington

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Thanks, buddy!

  • May 28, 2011, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Thanx guys for the replies about Peri and the bikini.

    by KilliK

    to the image google Batman.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:04 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights - LUTHER

    by MoffatBabies

    Fantastic show. Yes, they say sometime early June. Teaser here: http://youtu.be/VwYPlN9bNA8 Looks VERY interesting. Especially one familiar face I'm happy to see back.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:08 p.m. CST

    killik - this should do

    by Seph_J

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rm4h_oafc

  • May 28, 2011, 8:17 p.m. CST

    heh, x-files cliffhanger.

    by mistergreen

    The episode overall over boring like last week.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Did people really need Moffat or DWC...

    by -Halfscan-

    to tell them that Amy hasn't been Amy all season? </p> This episode clearly says that Eye Patch Lady is with the real Pond, and since she's been around from the beginning of this series no more explanation is really required. </p> Now, 'assuming' that "The Flesh" is Nestine in origin (last episode when Doc scanned it he said something to the effect of the the Flesh is "the early stages of the technology"... although he never clarified 'what tech', I'm still going with Nestine Duplicates (i.e. Rory)) it would seem that she was likely replaced around the same time (last season finale)...</p> but, if that was the case it would seem to set up a situation where Fl-Amy is the one who brings Doc back, and honestly, everything would seem to get really messy. </p> So, safe money is replacement off-camera between seasons (to prevent headaches), if not all bets are off and I wouldn't even rule out her being replaced sometime between childhood and Doc's first encounter with her as an adult.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:34 p.m. CST

    -halfscan-

    by MoffatBabies

    Not at this point, no. Ooh, forgot to grab DWC. Probably a good one, too. I like what you did there, too. "who brings DOC BACK" lol

  • May 28, 2011, 8:44 p.m. CST

    Ambushed with exposition

    by Dreamfasting

    I love it when a show gets away with an exposition ambush. I didn't quite figure it out, but at least I was asking all the right questions.

  • May 28, 2011, 8:59 p.m. CST

    mcbegbie - when she was taken

    by Dreamfasting

    No, all the eyepatch-lady visions were looking in through the slit on her tube, so it would appear that she was taken either in the first episode or (more likely) before the season even started. It would appear that the Doctor has also known (or at least suspected) since the beginning and has been quietly investigating under the guise of random travels.

  • May 28, 2011, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Why do people think its the silence?

    by chronicallydepressedlemming

    She saw the first glimpse of eye-patch lady during the fisrt episode this season. Personally, I think she was kidnapped mid-season off-screen. The Silence were the baddies for the season-opener but why are people assuming those that kidnapped Amy are related to them?

  • May 28, 2011, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Also the reason for her kidnapping

    by chronicallydepressedlemming

    Is to monitor the Doctor and ofc, create a Time Lord offspring for them to control, whoever 'they' are. I'm hoping (and expecting) a comeo from the Doctor's daughter (not the kid, but the clone created during Tennant's reign).

  • May 28, 2011, 9:51 p.m. CST

    "... the things that man's done!"

    by Corwin_X2

    "God help us if you've made him angry ..." Unfortunately, Deity of choice possibly not much help when dealing with a seriously pissed off Timelord. ;-) So I do hope that's a genuine prediction and not just a throwaway line.

  • May 28, 2011, 10:07 p.m. CST

    We're in a room RUN We're in a different room now

    by thedarklingthrush

    RUN! Hated how the Gangers kept switching sides, and the humans kept waffling their opinions on the gangers. There is a real well of emotions in that kind of topic and neither part really did well in drawing from it. Moffat does a good job of it usually and Gaiman was splendid, but his writers tend to have a hard weaving a story around some of the ideas.

  • May 28, 2011, 10:13 p.m. CST

    How Americans can annoy Canadians

    by JPKk

    Last week it was Victoria Day weekend in Canada. It is the first big weekend that kicks off the get out and enjoy summer mode of life. We still got to watch Dr. Who . This weekend it is Memorial Day weekend in America. Here in Canada no Dr. Who. In the words of Queen Vickie we are not amused. I always imagined the Doctor showing up in London Ontario and thinking history has been severely altered. Of course he would figure it out when he went to Tim Hortons and got some Timbits and coffee ( not qwaffee and waddeh).

  • May 28, 2011, 10:18 p.m. CST

    chronicallydepressedlemming.... Spoilers...

    by Kelvington

    It was stated quiet clearly tonight in the confidential that Amy was a Ganger from episode 1 to 6. So I have to believe since one of the executive producers said it... it is 90% likely to be true. Just saying! Unless perhaps you think it was Paul McGann who kidnapped her with the help of the Valeyard and the Rani. :)

  • May 28, 2011, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Heyyyy...

    by Perigee

    Now This is weird. We've seen the "Amy and Baby" picture. But the baby has just been born. Who's been traveling around in time taking pictures that couldn't even exist yet?

  • May 28, 2011, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Another great episode!!

    by Jawsh Murdock

    Although I liked Rebel Flesh, I had no Idea that almost people would be this good. It was a very creepy, entertaining, and game changing episode. It seems like these past 3 episodes had a fun tribute to the past, but also showed us an exciting direction for the future of the show! And this episode managed to give us satisfying answers unlike Lost, but managed to give us just enough to make us even hungerier for more! If the next episode looks as good as I think it does, and the rest of the series doesn't bomb, I think this may turn out to be the best series of Doctor Who we've seen since the restart in 2006.

  • May 28, 2011, 11:28 p.m. CST

    Fl-Amy as far back as "Amy's Choice" (S05e07)?

    by -Halfscan-

    You know, the episode that dealt with possible multiple realities... including one where Amy was preggers.</p></p> Just putting it out there >.>

  • May 28, 2011, 11:41 p.m. CST

    That was awesome...!

    by Cap'n Jack

    And I love how the seemingly "monster of the week" monster VERY much fit into the seasons story arc. It was no accident that the doctor went to that place... Solid stuff.

  • May 28, 2011, 11:48 p.m. CST

    lemming - re:Silence

    by Dreamfasting

    The Silence were holding her daughter, so they are involved somehow. The question is whether they brought the girl to Earth themselves or just happened across someone else who was attempting to hide out on Earth.

  • May 29, 2011, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Ugh. *spoilers*

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    I'm terribly confused. Between the baby that existed in 1969 but was just born now, and how the Silence seem to be involved with making TARDIS's and using Ganger technology that seemed to be developed post 1969, nothing seems to make much sense. Everything seems confused a la Lost, and I'm terrified that Doctor Who might end the way Lost did--unsatisfying and poorly written. But I'm holding out hope. Last week's episode was certifiably awful, but The Almost People completely redeemed it--much better paced, with a decent plot twist that I certainly didn't see coming. It explained quite a few loose threads hanging about, which is always nice. Also, I've always had the impression that River Song was incarcerated because she killed the Doctor--the way she said she killed "the best man she'd ever known" just seems to point to him. Or maybe I'm grasping at straws.

  • May 29, 2011, 12:46 a.m. CST

    *spoilers*

    by Chain

    I think the captor's have had Amy ever since Amy's Choice. The eyeballs are a huge clue.

  • May 29, 2011, 12:52 a.m. CST

    @seph_j excellent link thank you ;)

    by KilliK

  • May 29, 2011, 1:32 a.m. CST

    Was it just me, or (spoilers)

    by DoctorTom

    did the way Eyepatch Woman said "push" remind anybody of how the Silents exhaled in episode 1? <br> This episode makes me wonder if the Silents are actually all made of Flesh (must be the white skin - though the gangers were definitely glossier). <br> As for the theories that Rory's going to war will create the Alliance - we still don't know what happened between when Rory died and when he came back as a Roman.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:35 a.m. CST

    Notspock2 (may be spoilers, but it's too late for that)

    by DoctorTom

    I liked your "MeltAmy" quote (but definitely needed to be buried in the main text, not in the subject line). <br> The "Melt Amy" setting was probably one of the 3 settings Joanna Lumley referred to in The Curse of Fatal Death. (Probably not the type of melting you were thinking of, though...)

  • Was that actually Amy's child in the astronaut suit that we saw in the 1st episode? Or, was it a ganger-child, made out of the puddly remnants of Flesh that were the remains of the ganger Doctor? They made sure to comment on the fact that he might be able to come back from it. It would also certainly explain where the regeneration came from.<br> Maybe they overlaid a new personality - the child personality (Amy's kid) over the gangerDoctor's flesh when making a new body, but DNA memory of the gangerDoctor keeps leaking out. Why overlay the other personality? Maybe they hoped to have a personality that they would find easier to control, but still be able to get to the regeneration ability underneath. Or, the Silents couldn't handle pure Timelord for priming/powering their timeships (remember, the Doctor said in The Lodger that if he touched the panel the explosion would take out the world). So, mixing TimeLord Flesh with human Flesh would be a way to make what they need. <br? It would also explain the space suit. The added life support stuff would be to keep the ganger stable. The Doctor figured this out when he analyzed the suit in Day of the Moon. <br> As to when Amy was kidnapped, it's obvious. It was while they were dealing with the goddess running around the Orient Express - in Space. ;)

  • May 29, 2011, 1:49 a.m. CST

    Oh, and I would just like to say "wow" for that epiisode.

    by DoctorTom

    "Yowzah!" <br> "Would you like a jelly baby?" <br> The whole bit with the two Doctors being smugly self satisfied with each other. <br> The Jennifer creature looking like something from John Carpenter's The Thing. <br> knowing where the TARDIS was going to crash through - almost as if he had planned it that way (makes me think of the Sylvester McCoy "Time's Champion" stuff) <br> that whole ending. <br> that whole ending. (It was so good it was worth saying twice.)

  • May 29, 2011, 1:50 a.m. CST

    Non-spoiler question for those who watched the episode

    by DoctorTom

    Did anybody catch any universe-shifting things in this episode, like the changing card at the top of the card house in Rebel Flesh?

  • May 29, 2011, 1:55 a.m. CST

    One other quick thought (spoilers)

    by DoctorTom

    this probably only occurred to me because of a combination of some of the other posts talking about Amy's choice combined with it being late and my needing sleep (consider yourself warned...) <br> For some reason, I keep getting this mental picture now of Amy's baby being born, and the camera pans down to show the baby with Toby Jones' head, who tells Amy "Well, you've gone and done it now!"

  • May 29, 2011, 2:52 a.m. CST

    Did the substitution happen in Episode One

    by Shan

    I'm seeing that they said that the Ganger for Amy was in all of the episodes so far. However, that doesn't mean the actual body of Amy wasn't in Episode 1, does it? I seem to remember everyone blacked out in Episode 1. Is it possible that's when the substitution happened?

  • May 29, 2011, 2:55 a.m. CST

    I should add -

    by Shan

    I like the idea that the Ganger of Amy was being controlled by actual Amy wherever she was; like all the other Gangers prior to the accident. I couldn't believe the Doctor would have destroyed the Ganger Amy if it had become a genuinely independent entity separate from original Amy.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:14 a.m. CST

    THE ULTIMATE SPOILER (You have been warned)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Okay, so I woke up with this. But I think it's inevitable. It's not about the current arc per se - though there are implications. It's about the Time Lock. So ... while this is speculation I'm pretty certain it's the only possible explanation for what's been happening since before Ecclestone. Therefore read on only if you really REALLY like spoilers. Still here? Good then. You're Dr 8. Your people have been utterly corrupted by Rassilon. Between the Time Lords and the Daleks most of the continuity of the universe is up in flames. Everyone you ever cared about has been systematically butchered, perverted, or disappeared. Something called the nightmare child rules large parts of the universe. It's the end of the line. So you have to put it right. And that means locking your own people out of existence through the use of a Paradox Machine exactly as we saw the Master do to Humanity in The Sound Of Drums. But this time you don't do it to Earth. You do it to Gallifrey. Because no Time Lords means the only Time traveller is you and you think you can get away with it - heal the remaining damage yourself and put things right again. Now it is cannon that the first TARDISes and Time Lords were created by 3 people working together. 2 of those people were Omega and Rassilon. The third, known only as "The Other", was either the first Doctor, or a direct progenitor of the first Doctor via something called a Loom - which is btw very similar to The Flesh. Being the Dr you won't go murdering Omega or Rassilon in their cradles. But you are capable of murdering your own baby self, The Other, in his cradle. That stops the creation of the Time Lords in your universe leaving you the only Time Lord left alive. Of course the Time Lords remain alive in their mostly-destroyed universe. And there's one more universe, the one in which no Time Lord ever existed. That's the one where you plant your semi-human David Tennant self to make a new race of kind humane and human Time Lords a la Cushing. The Master almost screws the whole thing up as a channel for Rassilon in the End Of Time. It costs you an incarnation to see him off. But that's a small price to pay compared to what you've already done. Because, as we saw in TIA, you didn't just have to strangle your baby self in its cradle. You had to do it TWICE.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:14 a.m. CST

    Other than the ending, a really boring two-parter

    by FrodoFraggins

    This easily could have and should have been a single episode.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:19 a.m. CST

    so heres a cool thing

    by RoyBattysBatter

    I live in a small seaside town called Herne Bay, little out the way place on the South East coast of England, anyway, turns out that Anthony Coburn, the script writer credited with inventing the TARDIS lived here at the time he was writing for the BBC and Who inparticular, and because of this there is a campaign for a replica TARDIS to be installed on the sea front. God I hope it happens. How cool would that be?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Quantum Shift

    by 2LeggedFreak

    I've been worrying for a while about how complicated the show has been getting and the impact on casual viewers and on the viewing figures. But I've woken up this morning with a total shift in perspective---come what may now I don't want to worry about viewing figures because for me this show is working --in spades. Selfish eh. I think that whats put me in this devil may care mode is the reveal in yesterdays episode for a number of reasons:- 1) It was a great twist, but it made sense in every way, was fair, and explained a lot of what was going on. 2) Answers-- this isn't Lost where they have great twists that just pile on more and more unanswered questions--we've had not quite mid season answers here that resolve the questions we had to a point where you have a baseline to work from and aren't confused or irritated by uncertainty. 3) And there really is the feel that this all comes together in an over-arching plot in which makes it epic. This is a 2 season story which can't be said to be faltering even by the churlish. I just feel I've awoken to the realisation that, despite its weaknesses (and there are plenty) this could be one of the best TV events I've seen in a very very long time. Sorry if its OTT but I just feel so positive about the whole thing.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:11 a.m. CST

    Last night's DW Confidential

    by paineywoo

    Without 'going all Paul McGann' - last nights Doctor Who Confidential blatantly followed one of the Production Crew walking past... The classic series Tardis. Not entirely sure which one, although it looked like Doc's 6 or 7...not going to say 8th! (wrong blue) I also don't want to say anything here to upset people - but why would that be casually on the set of the 2011 production?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:24 a.m. CST

    What if: Amy has 'never' been Amelia?

    by -Halfscan-

    It's a stretch, but I remember even as far back as 11th Hour the Doctor seemed to think something was off about Amelia growing into Amy </p> </p> And then you have the line River said to the Doc a couple weeks ago:</p> "When I first met the Doctor, a long, long time ago, he knew all about me. Think about that. Impressionable young girl and suddenly this man drops out of the sky. He’s clever and mad and wonderful and knows every last thing about her. Imagine what that does to a girl."</p> </p> ... which certainly could be said to hint at that possibility that maybe River = young Amelia and Amy may have been a plant all along.</p> </p> Just throwing that out there too.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:31 a.m. CST

    I'm still thinking another big shock we might have

    by HornOrSilk

    River Song is River Song AFTER being saved in the Library. What if the Silent somehow came back and gave her a new body?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:31 a.m. CST

    Holy Moses, that old opening sucked balls.

    by Cash907

    As did tonight's episode, right up until the last 2 minutes. Letting the spare Doctor go to waste like that was such a cheap cop-out too, right up there with the Doctor's daughter. You're starting to get predictable and disappointing Steve... don't break my heart like RTD did.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:34 a.m. CST

    In other words

    by HornOrSilk

    Couldn't River be gangerfied now, too?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:38 a.m. CST

    paineywoo

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Hmm ...and there was a slight pause as they passed the Tardis---are they slipping clues into Confidential ? Also they focussed on showing us 4 sonics whilst explaining that there was only one--well not in this episode there weren't !!!

  • May 29, 2011, 4:40 a.m. CST

    cash907

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Everything in the last few minutes hinted that Doc 2 would be back.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:42 a.m. CST

    Morpeth Jetsan, Analysis Lessons & Anagrams

    by Blue Bow Tie

    I was hoping to find out more information about this fictional company. Instead found a forum posting that it might be an anagram for "Phantom Jester"...which some point to the Dream Lord. Another post lead to here(from the BBC's page on the Doctor's Wife): http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gygrl The title "Analysis Lessons" may also be a anagram("Lonely Assassins").

  • May 29, 2011, 4:43 a.m. CST

    I think people are overthinking it, again.

    by V'Shael

    Having thought it about it, I reckon she was replaced during the opening two-parter. It's the only thing that makes sense to me anyway. Anything before that is too complicated. Where as in the first two parter of the season, we have Amy thinking she's pregnant.. (she might have taken the test before meeting with the 1100 year old Doctor) and then they go to fight the Silence. She tells him she's pregnant. Then she gets in the orphanage with Canton. She is trapped in a room by the Silents at one point. And it's only after that, that we see her seeing Frances Barber. All they had to do, was hook her up to a machine, like the humans in this episode, and she'd already forget everything about having being trapped by the Silence.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:45 a.m. CST

    v'shael

    by 2LeggedFreak

    I agree. This couldn't have happened before the Big Bang because basically the universe rebuilt from Amy's head wouldn't have her as a prisoner with a ganger body.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:46 a.m. CST

    v'shael

    by HornOrSilk

    That was how I understood the ganger Amy, but others reported that Moffat said we have not seen the real Amy this season. I don't know if he said that or if they are reading into what he said. However, if he said it, it makes me wonder: if the pregnant Amy the real Amy?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:46 a.m. CST

    if=is

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 29, 2011, 4:59 a.m. CST

    Extra Content on BBC Doctor Who

    by Blue Bow Tie

    After that "Analysis Lessons" video, I used a quick js script to see if other episode pages had videos: Episode - Link Text - URL 6.1/6.2 - "the Silence"/"Silence" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gj9jm 6.3 - None found so far 6.4 - "."(After Gallifrey) - http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gygrl 6.5/6.6 - None found so far I thought that would be more fruitful...i guess not.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:01 a.m. CST

    Gangers and the Sonic

    by ToughGuyRizzo

    Why did the Doctors flip each other a sonic screwdriver? I have scrolled thru alot of the posts, but I didnt see this addressed. I can understand clothes being reformed, but a sonic screwdriver? So, why did Smith flip to the the Doc? And then later on, they both have Sonics? I re-watched 3X, paid attention to the switch, but yet, I dont understand the Sonic flip? Continuity error? Sorry if this has been discussed, but it's 6AM here, getting back from Rocky Horror in NYC and after-hours speakeasy joint in the east village. But hey, us New Yorkers pour out in thousands for the doctor. Just showin' some late night love for the man and his sexy.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:07 a.m. CST

    rizzo

    by 2LeggedFreak

    I think this is a massive clue that there was another Doctor in this timeline---the chucking of sonics between the two was like a magician with cups and balls--designed to confuse. Continuity error-- maybe but people said that about the Jacket in the Angels story. And as I mentioned above the Confidential Art department showed that there are 4 copies of the sonic kept on set and then said " but of course there is only ever 1 sonic" which I think again is somebody in Confidential deliberately being disengenuous.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:14 a.m. CST

    I didnt see last nights ep...

    by emeraldboy

    and will be out of the country from wednesday of next week. saw the trailer for next weeks a good man goes to war and tried to watch the prequel on the dr who bbc site had to watch that on youtube. My friend told me that he found the episode confusing as there was a whole load of sub plots. but he agreed that the ending was really exciting. in the trailer for a good man goes to war we see the lady with the eye patch take center stage. and the dr says the child is not a weapon. and eye patch lady says she will be. who is the tubby blue alien. who is the eye patch lady? who is the general saying today this day the dr will fall? who are the cloaked slightly jedi hooded figures? and will ian mcdiarmiad be revealed as the big bad. that would be cool.....

  • May 29, 2011, 5:15 a.m. CST

    2leggedfreak

    by HornOrSilk

    Well, it would be true and false at the same time. It would be the same one, from different parts of its time line. Of course, that means the future Doctor probably stayed behind to pick it back up. What was he up to? Maybe just maybe he is doing something with River Song. I'm still thinking the flesh is going to break River out of the library.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:18 a.m. CST

    semi small spoiler for ep 7

    by HornOrSilk

    Apparently, part of the story takes place in "Jack the Ripper's London."

  • May 29, 2011, 5:37 a.m. CST

    Ganger Amy and Confidential

    by Blue Bow Tie

    May not be canon, but from Confidential(around 5:45ish) Beth Willis - Exec Producer "The flesh Amy has been going through episodes 1 to 6, um, and hanging out, having these adventures with the Doctor and Rory. While the real Amy has been trapped in this birthing(?) chamber with this strange eye patch woman opening a hatch every now and again checking on her progress. And the reason that she has seen the eye patch woman at strange moments is because that reality has been seeping through into her mind."

  • May 29, 2011, 6:22 a.m. CST

    Digging this....(potential spoilers?)

    by deathraycharles

    So we see the birth of the alliance, the birth of River Song (the baby) to Amy Pond, the moral dilemma of Rory who is convinced that he has to kill the Doctor in order for his child to live (thus making the child a "weapon"), and finally Rory's death at the hands of the future incarnation of his own daughter who is in love with the Doctor........Epic.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:28 a.m. CST

    Amy

    by series six

    The doctor said Amy had put on a few pounds (because she was pregnant?) on the beach in TIA. I think she was taken after that.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:46 a.m. CST

    Beth Willis- Producer confirms it's flesh Amy from 1 to 6 this series

    by sam jacksons wig

    She says it in confidential a couple of minutes in. That's why Amy keeps seeing Madame Kavorian- it's another reality seeping through the ganger Amys mind.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:49 a.m. CST

    So, the BIIIIG question is when she was taken!! ....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ..... possibly during or something to do with the big bang? The Alliance took her and placed ganger Amy in the Pandorica?

  • And while that's no guarantee (I did after all, miss the "I love you" line from the Tardis to the Doctor) I didn't see Stephen Moffat saying that we'd not seen the "real" Amy all season. So it maybe that people are getting that part wrong.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:52 a.m. CST

    It's gotta be all tied into...

    by dj_bollocks

    Amy's Choice... Baby's, Bow Tie's "Alternate" Universe's... And I'm pretty sure it's just going to be a To Be Continued and nothing else next week....

  • May 29, 2011, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Who is back in episode 7? (small spoiler)

    by sam jacksons wig

    Have heard that Captain Aubrey from the Black Spot is back next week as part of the Doctors Army.....

  • May 29, 2011, 6:53 a.m. CST

    The Amy Swap

    by nicko1981

    Never posted before but thought this might be a good clue as to when the swap happened so had to register. In the second episode this season, in the orphanage there's a part where Amy is in a room with the silents all hanging from the ceiling. She tries to get out but the door is locked; she sees here reflection and there's a huge number of marks on her face indicating how many times she's seen the Silents. So she's stuck there; but suddenly the door unlocks; I could never understand why; but could it be because this is when the switch was made; and they needed to let the ganger Amy go, as they had the real Amy? It's just after this we see the first eyepatch appearance so it kind of makes sense.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Confidential and the Producers do sometimes make mistakes.

    by V'Shael

    She might have meant to say episode 2, for example. And Moffat makes the mistake of saying that Pertwee only used the phrase "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" once. And we should know that's not true, unless Moffat is saying The Five Doctors isn't canonical.

  • May 29, 2011, 7 a.m. CST

    The Doctors swapped shoes...

    by V'Shael

    I think they did it when they were both bent down behind the console, working on it.

  • May 29, 2011, 7:03 a.m. CST

    "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow"

    by TheFerretLives

    I am sure I've seen a compilation of Pertwee saying this so I'm confused to why SM said he only said it once. I suppose he might have left the "neutron flow" bit off the end but I've certainly heard him use "reverse the polarity.." and in fact remember that Pertwee used to improv this line as he couldn't remember tech talk? Does this mean SM is a ganger? F

  • May 29, 2011, 7:10 a.m. CST

    The Doc states " you haven't been here for a long, long time..."

    by sam jacksons wig

    So, can we assume that it IS the Amy Ganger in ep 1? Aftr all, she was the only one that actully saw the "silent" in the distance- could this be the point where she is taken? It's going to be fun finding out!!!

  • May 29, 2011, 7:15 a.m. CST

    So is the doctor currently in the Tardis the ganger?

    by Rebel Scumb

    Admittedly I was tired when I watched it, but that seemed to be how it ended up to me, the one at the door holding off the monster was the original doctor once the switched-shoes reveal came.

  • May 29, 2011, 7:19 a.m. CST

    Amy

    by TheFerretLives

    There was supposed to be 3 months between the end of Impossible Astronaut and Day Of The Moon and that was after she told the Doc she was pregnant. After the 3 months she said she was mistaken. Can't help but think that is when she was replaced unless it was trying to throw people off the scent by making them think she wasn't pregnant any more because the Silents took her. But quite a lot of us questioned the weird need for a 3 month gap there at the time so can't help but think it is important. A weird thought I had was that Amy was going to end up giving birth to herself, like Ouroborous! That would explain why she was in a house by herself with no parents at the beginning. F

  • May 29, 2011, 7:19 a.m. CST

    re: when Amy was taken

    by Rebel Scumb

    Well to me it makes sense it was sometime after the wedding in the big bang, as presumably that's when amy got knocked up. During the hiatus between seasons But it must be sometime before we first saw Madame Korvarian in Day of the Moon. I think it must have been between 6x01 & 6x02 In 6x01, Amy tells the doctor she is pregnant, and seems pretty certain about it 6x02 starts 3 months later. A lot of stuff has gone on, and we never get a full sense of how they escaped the florida warehouse The next time the doctor sees Amy she says she was not pregnant afterall. It makes sense to me that that is when the swap happened.

  • There's even a thames river to add extra confusion! Actually I think they are overdue to have the doctor visit Canada Afterall the BBC wouldn't even be able to release a lot of the classics on dvd if TVO hadn't held onto the mastertapes. Otherwise a lot more of them would of been taped over!

  • May 29, 2011, 7:27 a.m. CST

    rebe- no mate, the ganger Doc got a bit erm..... (spoiler)

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...melted at the end. It's the real one.

  • May 29, 2011, 7:30 a.m. CST

    That's good with confidential

    by HornOrSilk

    Then I do believe it was probably during the "months on the run" or in the orphanage Amy was switched. And I still get this sense that River from the library is now going to come back out in and through the flesh. It makes me wonder, even, if the Doctor (of some incarnation) didn't create the flesh to help everyone who was stuck in the library, and the Silents (and others) found a way to reproduce it.

  • May 29, 2011, 7:31 a.m. CST

    Acid Suit

    by paineywoo

    At the end of the episode when Doc Ganger and the boss lady's Ganger (who was so so saucey and sexy in 'Teachers'...major crush!) 'melted' - her Acid Suit melted too... ...but obviously, that was 'real' and not 'flesh', and therefore shouldn't have melted with her. Just nit picking :)

  • May 29, 2011, 7:42 a.m. CST

    I love Canada!!! Beautiful place......

    by sam jacksons wig

    .....spent a bit oftime in Quebec (quite) a few years ago. Loved the place and would like to go back soon!! Maybe the Doc could join Rush (the greatest band in existance!) and Bryan Adams (god help us all) in rescuing Terrance and Phillup from the Yeti!!!!

  • May 29, 2011, 7:45 a.m. CST

    SPOILER for ep 6. Amy's clothes

    by V'Shael

    The Amy in the Tardis is wearing the same red check shirt and jeans, as she was wearing in the desert at the start of episode 2. Is that a clue that the clothes were also flesh?

  • Wouldn't he be able to recognise it as something of his own?

  • May 29, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Oh, and good afternoon. HornOrSilk, hope you are well today!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 29, 2011, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Karen's performance

    by TheFerretLives

    It's funny how a lot of people were complaining about there being something a bit off with Karen's performance so far this series and that Amy seemed a bit sidelined and not her usual self - now we know why! It is interesting though that the pirate episode was moved from later in the series, after the mid-series cliffhangers. How much did they have to change? Can it be taken that Amy and Rory will be still with the Doc in the second half of the series? Also this explains why the Doc insisted Amy resuscitate Rory - because he was observing her, perhaps not yet sure whether she was the real one or not? F

  • did anyone else notice when the doc drops them off at Morpeth Jetsan? and that fantastic piano theme from the final scene of Midnight kicked in as they bundle ganger Amy into the TARDIS..... love it.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    I said a future Doctor. It is a time loop, of sorts. Because he has seen what he has seen, he can in the future create it, to help free River. But in doing so, others are able to see and observe and create the flesh too. And they do so with Amy. And then the earlier Doctor is able to find out about the flesh via the ganger-Amy. It's all timey-wimey. Of course, that is just one way it could go. Even if the Doctor didn't create the flesh, I still wonder, what would stop him from using it to free River from the library? We know the Doctor keeps visiting her (she said as much). So the Doctor, eventually, once he knows everything, really feels connected to her. Why not then let her live again?

  • May 29, 2011, 8:11 a.m. CST

    And Sam-- thanks, I am ok. Just wish I had a TARDIS of my own

    by HornOrSilk

    Then I could record all lost episode of Doctor Who and see what will happen the rest of this season. Hope you are well, too.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:11 a.m. CST

    So Rory and Amy never really got married? He married the ganger?

    by mistergreen

  • May 29, 2011, 8:12 a.m. CST

    mistergreen

    by HornOrSilk

    I think they married, it is the real Amy. Unless one would want to say the whole universe after the Big Bang is... a ganger.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:14 a.m. CST

    @Nicko

    by veteran_of_mu

    Agreed, mate. It's the only sensible time for the switch. The big clue is that before the switch you've got Amy staring at a window with her face covered in tally marks and a ceiling full of silents. Then after the switch her face has no tally marks and the ceiling has no silents. Voila ... switcheroo!

  • May 29, 2011, 8:15 a.m. CST

    Amys clothes- (small spoiler)

    by sam jacksons wig

    It has been stated that in the very last episode we find ourselves back in the desert to recap on previous events. Amy is said to be wearing the same clothes she was in episode 2 DOTM, so one can deduce that it will be some sort of flashback to that moment. Oh, and we get to see Canton again. Choice!!!

  • ..the Ganger Amy shared the same thoughts, feelings, emotions and whatnot as the real Amy..... ...why would there be any difference if all along it has been building up to this big reveal? It would have muted the impact, yes? No, I think that Gillans acting was sub-par and that she was overlooked in the writng (maybe deliberately- who knows?). However, the cat is out of the bag and she (and the writers) need to (quoting Bender quoting Eltzar) "Knock it up a notch..."

  • May 29, 2011, 8:22 a.m. CST

    One thing I am glad Moffat is doing

    by HornOrSilk

    Timey-wimey. Doctor Who is a time travel series. It's rarely been used to the limit. He doesn't even go to the limit, imo, but at least he is using it. I still wish "Seasons of Fear" would be made into a tv adventure. With Paul McGann. Just do the audio live action, period. Maybe changes due to the fact it will be seen and not just heard, but in general, it is also a nice way to deal with time travel. For those who have not heard it, it is the return of the Nimon, and they create an alternative time line where they overcome the Time Lords! And Mithra is involved. That's all I will say.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:24 a.m. CST

    wig

    by TheFerretLives

    perhaps but did they tell her she was a fake when she was making those other episodes? That would kind of affect your performance, especially if you weren't exactly a seasoned pro. F

  • May 29, 2011, 8:27 a.m. CST

    theferretlives

    by HornOrSilk

    The performance has been similar to what we saw last year with her. She is nice looking (and has brought some young females into the Doctor Who fandom-- check youtube to find one girl showing how to have makeup to look like Karen) -- however, she has not much variety for her acting chops. She is not too good an actor. I saw that last year, with her limited reactions to what was going on. That being said, it is not as if all Doctor Who companions were good actors/actresses. The show transcends that problem.

  • You would think also the doubleganger would be useful in tracking down the real deal.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:34 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by TheFerretLives

    I like Karen as a person and she seems not to take herself too seriously, in fact she comes across as very funny in real life so perhaps she's more suited to comedy? F

  • there is the general who is shouting on this day in this place the dr will fall. then we see the eye patch lady. whoever the hell she is? at the start we hear river song quote the line today he finds out who I am. we get the speech about the dr rising and falling. rory saying where is my wife. the lady with the patch saying the child is a weapon and the appearance of the cybermen.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:37 a.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by HornOrSilk

    Amy granger is Amy working in and through the flesh. The rights the Doctor was supporting were those gangers who, through the storm, became more than a mere vehicle. It's the difference between a computer and AI.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:39 a.m. CST

    and I have ask again who are those vaguely jedi ish

    by emeraldboy

    hooded figures and who is the blue tubby guy as scene in the prequel. trailer....

  • May 29, 2011, 8:41 a.m. CST

    theferretlives

    by HornOrSilk

    She might be a nice person. Many a nice person don't make an actor. I believe Tom Welling was a better actor than Karen, though of course, I find Karen more attractive (for obvious reasons). But this is neither here nor there for acting, and Karen, sadly, so far is just not capable of bringing many dimensions into her acting. I don't have anything against her because of it. As I said, not all companions in Who have been great for acting ability. Just watch Victoria sometime. You will see what I mean.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:42 a.m. CST

    emeraldboy

    by HornOrSilk

    Well, we don't know who they are, yet. But they are probably connected to Jack the Ripper.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Amy Granger?

    by TheFerretLives

    Is she Hermione's sister? :-p And yes I know that is Grainger. F

  • May 29, 2011, 8:52 a.m. CST

    the point I am trying to make

    by emeraldboy

    after rory says where is my wife there is a shot of lots of flying war ships. then we see those hooded figures. and rory the roman soldier attacking someone.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:54 a.m. CST

    emeraldboy

    by HornOrSilk

    As I said before, one of the semi-spoilers released for next week is that some aspect of the episode will connect to "Jack the Ripper's London." This makes me think they will explain Jack in a sci-fi way.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:59 a.m. CST

    and in one of the final parts of the trailer

    by emeraldboy

    it looks like the dr is going to take a fall of some kind after being smacked.

  • May 29, 2011, 9:01 a.m. CST

    The Doctor's fall

    by HornOrSilk

    It's all timey-wimey, and really about what happens in Dragonfire. ;)

  • May 29, 2011, 9:02 a.m. CST

    jack the ripper in a dr who episode..

    by emeraldboy

    hmmm....

  • May 29, 2011, 9:10 a.m. CST

    In the trailer

    by TheFerretLives

    who is the guy with the long coat skidding around a corner under fire holding what looks like a futuristic gun? F

  • May 29, 2011, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Even more to the point- the Tardis causes the Gangers to become Human....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...why didn't it do the same for Ganger Pond????

  • May 29, 2011, 9:21 a.m. CST

    Tardis and Ganger Pond

    by TheFerretLives

    Because the fake Amy hadn't been separated from the original like the Almost People? F

  • May 29, 2011, 9:31 a.m. CST

    rebel- maybe she was killed to.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    a) prove that he was right b) wake the real Amy c) put the Ganger out of the (contraction) pain it was in and unable to understand

  • hence the dismay at the discarded malformed ones, or all that business about the eyes saying "why?"

  • May 29, 2011, 9:39 a.m. CST

    Sam Jackson's wig

    by Rebel Scumb

    I guess the pain argument makes sense. Don't get me wrong, it made for a great reveal, it just seemed a bit contrary to the previous 80 minutes of what they were trying to accomplish. I am glad though that the doctor ganger doesn't appear to be an easy out for them for the Doctors death from Impossible astronaut.

  • ...and are a new Monster in the Who cannon. Demons Run is an asteroid. And the blue bloke is Dorium, who we saw back in S5 with River giving her the vortex manipulator.

  • May 29, 2011, 9:49 a.m. CST

    Just watched the trailer and prequel for next week

    by Rebel Scumb

    Looks good! I'm amazed how visually dark this season has been, the season premiere was the only "bright" episode, and it was so dark and complex in tone,a nd still had all those creepy Silents scenes. Usually its a pretty varied spectrum, but this season has had a very bleak look. Even the silliest episode curse of the black spot was all at night. Very curious to see how it all ties up!

  • May 29, 2011, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Trailer for ep 7- the monks are holding flaming swords.....

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 29, 2011, 9:54 a.m. CST

    This run up to the mid season split feels like a series end!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    I can't believe we are getting so much intrigue this quickly! All hail the Moff!!!!

  • ..but the outcome would always be the same-the Ganger Amy HAD to die to move things along.

  • May 29, 2011, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Yeah. WHen last year ended, we weren't really sure how long...

    by Rebel Scumb

    the Silents, River Song, and all that stuff would be drawn out for, but seems like its being brought to a head pretty quickly.

  • May 29, 2011, 10:11 a.m. CST

    emeraldboy

    by Perigee

    As to the Jedi - I'm betting The Doctor and Rory. There are the two of them, with a mission; 1) rescue Amy, and 2) Now, rescue the child. The scene that played out was to find the location of the child, which was recorded on the "brain" of some kind of whatziz. It Could be a third party, but we don't need to go that far, since the Doc and Rory are in need of that information. Obviously blueboy is an expert at buying and selling, tech and information - the pair would not be wise to advertise that they about to break the kid out. That's my guess, anyway.

  • May 29, 2011, 10:29 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by HornOrSilk

    I think it solidifies them only once they have become independent, not before. Amy's double is not independent.

  • May 29, 2011, 10:35 a.m. CST

    About gangerDoctor (spoilers)

    by DoctorTom

    Why did the "real" Doctor let him die? He knew that the sonic screwdriver would take care of Jenny. He could have done that himself without the gangerDoctor and another gangerperson dying; he could have had them go into the TARDIS where they'd be safe from the sonic while he soniced Jenny himself. As had been mentioned, he wouldn't normally be that callous about other people's lives...unless he knew that they would be coming back (well, the gangerDoctor anyway - the other death might have been an oversight on Moffatt's/Graham's parts).

  • May 29, 2011, 10:42 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by TheFerretLives

    I just said that, are my posts invisible???

  • Think about it. Season 5 and 6 would be one 24 or so episode season in the USA. EPIC.

  • May 29, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    *would. Not souls.

    by Sequitur

    Nm

  • May 29, 2011, 10:56 a.m. CST

    What's wrong, Diox - did the Torchwood talkback kick you out?

    by DoctorTom

    This thread's been up for a couple of days and you're only now coming over here to talk SGU? You're slipping. We expect you to make an honest effort next Friday to be the first post when they make the new Doctor Who thread and start the whole thing off with SGU.

  • May 29, 2011, 10:59 a.m. CST

    theferretlives

    by HornOrSilk

    I was not on for a bit, then reloaded, and was reading messages one at a time. I replied before I read the rest.

  • May 29, 2011, 11 a.m. CST

    dioxholster - Rumors say ...

    by Corwin_X2

    ... you spend way too much time in the bathroom jerking off over pictures of Richard Dean Anderson. Can't your parents afford a decent therapist?

  • May 29, 2011, 11:02 a.m. CST

    Thoughts and responses... somewhat Spoilerish...

    by Kelvington

    doctortom - That was very clever! Toby Jones Head! LOL sam jacksons wig - I like the clothes thing, that's very good. However, if we accept that there will be a flash back to see amy get taken, then as far as we know for sure... 100% for sure... there was an extra scene shot on the beach that the director was asked to shoot, so I would have to believe that is where Amy is taken, and she's back by that little shack. LOL paineywoo - I saw that too. I suspect they have have lots of TARDIS' around for various promotional reasons, but so far in the history of confidential they haven't really spoiled anything that I can remember. So I'm assuming it's just there, like lots of aliens heads are there as well. 2leggedfreak - LOL the sonics... um... technically there was only one Matt Smith, and only one sonic used at any one time. Although I wish the confidential would have shown how they threw the sonic from one Matt to the other, that was very nicely done. v'shael you are 100% correct... we all have to stop over thinking here. And start thinking inside the box (Get it? TARDIS box? Nevermind) The answers last years were very prosaic, and they will be this year as well. hornorsilk - Who said we handn't seen Amy this season? I repeated what Beth Willis said that "The Flesh Amy's been going through episodes one to six and hanging out, having these adventures with The Doctor and Rory, while the real Amy's been trapped in this birthing chamber..." toughguyrizzo - the sonics was addressed way up top, 2leggedfreak I think mentioned it first, and I addressed it because I assumed the Doctor-nate (Alternate Doctor) had his own sonic like he has his own special watch. But it is a puzzel. My first thought on this after watching the episode now three times, is that there was a scene that didn't make it to the final edit where somewhere in the background there's a Doctor using two sonics or something small like that. v'shael - That's true they do make mistakes, and that was a huge one the SM made about "Reverse The Polarity of the neutron flow" when in fact the third Doctor said "Reverse the polarity" Several times, just not the neutron flow bit. It was his go to when he forgot a line. Plus DT said it as well in the Lazurus chamber. paineywoo - Nice catch on the Acid suit melting, it melted in the first episode as well when Buzzer was in the acid, which makes sense. But I don't know what to make of it, it shouldn't have melted, unless the sonic (like Star Trek's commuincators) created a sympothic resonating sound that just destoryed everything not just the ganger. mistergreen - I don't think he married the ganger, unless it was plastic Rory marring Famy? (Flesh Amy) I think at some point, either in the christmas special or just after she was replaced. And on that topic... HUGE PLOT HOLE... why couldn't REAL people stayed and opened the door and fire off the sonic and then make a mad dash for the TARIDS filled with Gangers? And finally, the music mix this series is a 100 times better than it has been in the past years, you can actually hear the dialog over the music! Well done SM, well done!

  • May 29, 2011, 11:04 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by TheFerretLives

    I know how it happens I was kidding, it was just funny cos twice today I've said something, then someone else said it and then people agreed with them not me, I was beginning to think everyone was a ganger! Or maybe I was! F

  • May 29, 2011, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Diox is a ganger! It makes perfect sense now, but..

    by TheFerretLives

    ..instead of having a person's memory put in him they crammed the handful of episodes of SGU they made before they decided it was a lost cause into his ganger head. F

  • May 29, 2011, 11:09 a.m. CST

    Come on guys...

    by lantern48

    I hope I'm not ruining this for anyone by telling you there's clearly a connection to Omega. Headless monks? Who else didn't have a face?!!!! No one noticing the Omega symbol everywhere? Watch some classic Who, those of you who are only into Nu Who - you will enjoy this BIG story arc much more. Start with 'The 3 Doctors.'

  • May 29, 2011, 11:11 a.m. CST

    I love the 3 doctors. It was one of the first classics I saw

    by Rebel Scumb

    "Alll thhhinnggsss!! ALLLL THHHIIINNNGGGSS!!!!"

  • May 29, 2011, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Corwin X2

    by DoctorTom

    That's funny, the rumors I heard didn't say Richard Dean Anderson, it said that according to Wikipedia Diox jerked off over pictures of Gary Jones (the guy who operated the Stargate)

  • Classic!

  • May 29, 2011, 11:13 a.m. CST

    All things shall be mine!

    by HornOrSilk

    What, Lady?

  • May 29, 2011, 11:14 a.m. CST

    kelvington

    by TheFerretLives

    I said the same thing about the "Reverse the Polarity" catchphrase. I've seen a compilation of how many times he said it, I think on the extras for the Five Doctors dvd, so SM was talking paff there. F

  • May 29, 2011, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Amy's Clothes (somewhat spoilerish)

    by DoctorTom

    I wouldn't read too much into the clothes gangerAmy has on when she's melted compared to what she was wearing in episodes 1/2. The gangerAmy was shown in different clothes in episodes after she was taken.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:18 a.m. CST

    @ Rebel scum

    by lantern48

    "Plus Pertwee gets stuck in an abyss of never ending zero-G slow motion judo flips." Yeah! That's what I'm talking about. LOL

  • May 29, 2011, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Lol Rory shagged a ginga ganger!

    by TheFerretLives

  • May 29, 2011, 11:22 a.m. CST

    For those wondering about the Doc sonicing Amy...

    by lantern48

    That was a new version of The Flesh. Presumably with all -- or most -- the kinks worked out. Meaning: the Flesh Amy wasn't sentient on its own. There was nothing to save. Real Amy was plugged in and the Doc severed the connection. An avatar body died, not a sentient life-form.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:25 a.m. CST

    "Lol Rory shagged a ginga ganger!"

    by lantern48

    Who wouldn't? I'd do it without thinking twice.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:26 a.m. CST

    I have paused the dr who trailer on the spot with the general

    by emeraldboy

    and I have noticed the clerical insignia. that would tie this episode in with the two part angels episode from last year. and a lot of stuff is going to be unravelled especially towards the end of this year. i was just thinking....what if the reason these people are looking for amy's kid is to create some sort of cyber replicant. one part human. one part cyperman and with the ability to time travel. or an army of them.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:29 a.m. CST

    the guy in the long coat looks like...

    by emeraldboy

    capt jack harkness.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:31 a.m. CST

    but i could...

    by emeraldboy

    be wrong.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:35 a.m. CST

    guy with long coat

    by TheFerretLives

    I've paused it and I'm still none the wiser. It's probably a stunt double. With the way his hair is it actually looks like Blake from Blakes7! F

  • May 29, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    @Emeraldboy

    by lantern48

    It's this guy: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__ZNxti6RJVY/TRoUbLd-OaI/AAAAAAAABG4/UXt7_N1k5MA/s400/omega_doctor_villains.jpg If you're really trying to crack what's going on with the main story before they reveal it, go watch 'The 3 Doctors' or at least go read about Omega. To me, the only real question left is: is it just a cult of followers or is Omega himself back?

  • May 29, 2011, 11:47 a.m. CST

    Ω

    by lantern48

    My guess is that it's a cult of followers trying to bring Omega back and that they will succeed. Remember, in 'Arc of Infinity' Omega was trying to use the Doc's DNA to construct a new body for himself.

  • May 29, 2011, noon CST

    Trailer...

    by dj_bollocks

    Red Bow Tie.... Also it's a variant Omega sign... Either way I think it's definitely Time War / Nightmare Child / Time Lord influenced... Can't wait... And the Jedi robes look a lot like what the Time Lords were wearing in The End Of Time...

  • May 29, 2011, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Still not convinced it has anything to do with Omega.

    by V'Shael

    But I do hope that next week we see the Doctor get angry like we've never seen before. I'd like to think the "falls further than he's ever fallen" refers to him doing something out of anger, which he would normally never do. Another shot at genocide, for example. Wasn't there a recent call back to the Fish/Vampire lady asking him if his conscience could bear the weight of another dead race?

  • May 29, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    sam jackson's wig

    by Shan

    I understood it to mean that the Tardis stabilised the Ganger's form so that they wouldn't keep fluctuating between looking fully human and somewhat rubbery. Amy was always stable in appearance, probably because amongst other things, she was a more sophisticated version. Also, like other people were saying, I believe that it wasn't independently functional and that Amy was unwittingly controlling it from wherever she really is, just like the other pre-accident Gangers were just extensions of their operators until the storm.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Heh... Molecular memory. (Spoliers)

    by Perigee

    "Your molecular memory can survive this, you know. This may not be... the end." And then The Doctor throws The Doctor the sonic.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:19 p.m. CST

    @v'shael

    by lantern48

    You seriously really think all the evidence about this clearly being tied to Omega somehow, is not convincing? It 's all there, just look: Go watch the '3 Doctors' and then 'Arc of Infinity.' Then go watch 'The Time of Angels.' Then go rewatch all of series 5 and 6. Pay real good attention to 'The Lodger.' Think about the the kid that generated. Think about the Doctor dying and the very specific line of dialogue that states why they must burn his body - how his DNA can never be allowed in the wrong hands. I could go on and on and on... but this should be enough. Open your eyes. it's all there. And good on Moffat, for crafting such a deep, complex mystery. Fantastic! It's been a joy to watch and rewatch episodes picking up on all the clues everywhere.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Sonic - Silence in the Library

    by TheFerretLives

    Yes I too thought of how he "saved" River in the library when he passed him(self) the sonic screwdriver. But does this mean he can come back to replace the real Doc after he dies on the lakeside or will he come back and BE the Doc that dies on the lakeside? I suppose all the talk of the flesh actually being the person not just copies qualifies SMs statement that it was not a clone that was killed in the Impossible Astronaut. My only problem with that is that even if the copy of the ganger in the sonic is arguably the same as the Doc the real Doc, as in the one that has gone through all those adventures, still dies on the lakeside. It is a bit like that episode of DS9 when Chief O'Brien keeps jumping around in time loops where something bad is gonna happen and he tries to avoid it. In the end he can't get back and the version of him in the future goes back instead. Even though it is the Chief I couldn't stop thinking that the Chief from TNG and the early DS9, who fell in love with Keiko and had the kid Molly, died in that episode and just someone who looked like him replaced him. Didn't feel the same about him again. Conversely if it is the ganger who dies on the lakeside and he is brought back from the sonic to be a patsy, a fall guy then that isn't very nice either is it? F

  • May 29, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    lantern

    by TheFerretLives

    I just took that to mean that the kid was being grown and kept safe because she was useful as a weapon being a timelord too. The quote in the trailer about it not being a weapon it is a child proves it. If it was a vessel for Omega why call it a weapon? F

  • May 29, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Ferret

    by Perigee

    As they hammered in this episode, both Doctors Are The Doctor - just as quick, just as sharp. "Our" Doctor let slip the secret as well - "This one we've not been invited to..." So, IF Doppledoc IS as good as "Our" Doc, that little piece of info is with him too. We have our split timeline, and perhaps it's doppledoc who invites "Our" Doctor. Sort of giving him a front-row seat to some "all clear" message. "They think you're dead now... you have room to operate." We don't Know that The Doctor was invited to the lake... Maybe, just to the malt shop, so this "subroutine" could play through.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Omega Really? And Amy's ganger...

    by Kelvington

    All the talk about the Amy ganger not turning soft is crazy talk. The ONLY time we saw Pillsbury Dough Gangers was when they WERE NOT CONNECTED to someone!!! Even when Buzzer was dying he melted slowly but never lost his form. Lying dying in a pile not connected to someone they are soft. Amy was always connected to her Ganger so no reason to go soft. So Famy (Flesh Amy) never would have had an excuse to go all gooshy... except when Rory was pounding her ganger ass from the top bunk. :) Omega? Really?? As we got close to the end of last year, there were TONS of theories about stuff outside the realm of the series five. And guess what, everything was explained away inside the continuity of the series. Hell if it wasn't Doctor Who, it could have just been any SCI-FI show that wrapped up loose ends in a single season and set up a cliffhanger for it's next. So I think it's safe to say they aren't going to do a call back to Omega without spending at least one episode explaining who and what is the bad guy here. Think "The Stolen Earth" & "Journey's End" they brought back the timelords, but not in the last five minutes, but for two full episodes. Can it be Omega? Sure, but not unless they introduce him in the later part of the series. As cool as it is to speculate about the toymaker, and Meddling Monk and the Yeti, I doubt they would be thrown in at the last second. So now we can add Omega to the every growning list of things it's not, along with The Valeyard, The Rani, and Amy's House being a TARDIS, or Paul McGann calling for help. I'm not going to bet people anymore because they don't pay up when they loose or are wrong. And no amount of proof is enough for them. Which when you think about it is kinda of sad.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    @theferretlives

    by lantern48

    Maybe Omega is back already and using the child as a weapon is his plan. We don't really know what kind of weapon the kid may be, do we? As I said earlier, the only question left to me, is whether it's a cult of his followers or if Omega is actually back. There is absolutely no doubt there is a connection to Omega in some way. For anyone to not be able to see that, is confounding.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    @kelvington

    by lantern48

    You aren't listening. And you're close minded and thick. I said there is a connection to Omega. I never said I knew for sure it was. Go learn to read. And you know what, I wish you would bet me. Because you'd lose whatever you bet. But that's fine, because all that matters is you will remember being told that this was connected to Omega -- no matter how small that may be -- and you refused to see the obvious. You'll know. And you'll eat crow. That's good enough.

  • May 29, 2011, 1:53 p.m. CST

    to Merrick - Classic Episodes...

    by lynxpro

    Hey Merrick, here's some suggestions for you for scanning Classic Who. Grab "Doctor Who - The Beginning" DVD box set. Netflix has it but not through streaming. It is the original episodes with the 1st Doctor along with his granddaughter Susan Forman and her teachers Ian and Barbara. This is where it started. The second episode "The Daleks" is what the 1st Peter Cushing "Dr. Who" film adapted. 2nd Doctor - "Tomb of the Cybermen". It's on DVD. 3rd Doctor - "The Three Doctors" [the first multi-Doc team-up]. I personally love "Day of the Daleks" and I don't care what Terry Gilliam says, he borrowed from this story for "12 Monkeys" but got it all wrong [changing the past, time loops, etc.]. Lots of fans love "Inferno" because it happens in an alt.universe. "Planet of the Spiders" was sweet. 4th - What's not to love from the 4th Doctor's era, especially Douglas Adams's "The Pirate Planet". "Genesis of the Daleks" is probably considered the most classic for the 4th, but I also love "Talons of Weng-Chiang" because Mr. Sin scared the hell out of me as a kid. And you can't skip "The Deadly Assassin" considering it references "The Manchurian Candidate" and introduces the Time Lord regeneration limit, not to mention it also introduces the Time Lord's central repository of all of their knowledge...it is called...wait for it...THE MATRIX...and The Doctor fights for his life inside it. Yeah, I wonder what movies that inspired...hmmm. And then you round that out with "The Keeper of Traken" and Baker's last "Logopolis" and there you go. 5th Doctor - "Castrovalva" is the episode right after "Logopolis" but its not that great. "Earthshock" is awesome. I personally like "The Five Doctors" but it has its critics online. And the best episode of all is Robert Holmes's relentless 5th Doctor finale "The Caves of Androzani". 6th Doctor - "The Trial of a Time Lord" series. Nuff said. 7th Doctor - Meh. 8th Doctor - You do have to watch the TV Movie. It is the true bridge between the Classic Series and New Who.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Captain Jack cameo

    by penhapus

    is that him in the coat in the preview/trailer? Torchwood is sorta-kinda filling the Who gap in the summer in the UK, and they're attempting to ramp it up in the US, I wouldn't put it past BBC Wales to keep both their plates spinning... oh, and Moffat - do a Who/Sherlock crossover for Children In Need, go on!!!!

  • May 29, 2011, 2:08 p.m. CST

    lantern48 ... I do read...

    by Kelvington

    and I'll be the FIRST to admit when I'm wrong. But I just go with what I have seen and experienced in the last series, and how SM seems to work. I think I could make a case considering the robed figures that it might have something to do with the "The Stones Of Blood", we have monks, robes, we just visited Stonehenge last year, and River was there with a TARDIS... etc. And while it's "possible" it's incredibly unlikely. If you are right, I will be happy to give you your due. But last year EVERYTHING was explained away, nice and cleaning within the course of the 13 episodes presented. And set up the Silence for this series. So my inherent Spider-sense says, everything will be explained away within the 13 episodes we will get to see. With perhaps the exception of a call back to an earlier River Song episode, and a set up for the next series. If you've read my talkbacks comments, believe me no one was more convinced that Amy's house WASN'T a TARDIS right up until the time the Doctor said, you house so big, all those rooms. Then I started to shit a brick. Thank dog it wasn't a TARDIS. So for the foreseeable future I will say... It's not Omega, in Amy's House TARDIS, with the Valeyard and The Rani. :)

  • May 29, 2011, 2:21 p.m. CST

    The explanation being a big bad from the past

    by TheFerretLives

    is not really SMs bag. Was RTDs though and was flogged well past the extinct equestrian stage. I think it is a typical fan thing to get excited and think that the explanation or the end of the series arc is going to be a big fan fave from the past, but in a way it is no different to how the older more primitive peoples used to blame everything on fairies, spirits and a multitude of gods. I don't mean that offensively. I think SM wants to do his own thing and create fresh monsters and enemies, reluctantly being forced to crowbar old faves in to please the faithful. F

  • May 29, 2011, 2:22 p.m. CST

    @lantern48 - I have seen all those episodes.

    by V'Shael

    Many times. Most of them when they aired for the first time. This isn't my first trip to the rodeo, okay? I also know that the Lodger was based on a comic, plot wise. And the space ship was originally going to have Meglos as the pilot. There's a call back. This wasn't some part of a Moffat master plan. So yeah, you think you see evidence all around you. I say you're as a deluded as a creationist. What you call evidence, isn't actually evidence.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:25 p.m. CST

    The man in the trailer isn't Captain Jack.

    by V'Shael

    It's the pirate Captain Avery. Don't know how he fits into it, but it's him.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:27 p.m. CST

    How small a connection to Omega would count?

    by penhapus

    'he's eating a kebab... they're from Greece... Omega is a letter in the Greek alphabet - c'mon!' Every fanboy has trotted out the Valyard and Omega as the big bads for every season; they may we well known in Whovian circles, but to the casual viewer they mean nowt. Daleks are iconic, Cyberman are iconic, Omega isn't.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:32 p.m. CST

    lantern

    by 2LeggedFreak

    This is the last civilised talk-back in the whole of creation so lets not start on each other with name calling just because of a disagreement as to whether Omega is coming back. I'm personally with Kelvington on this. For it to be someone like Omega there would have to be a far bigger foreshadowing and thats just not happened. As far as New Who viewers are concerned they know sod all about the Classic Who stuff so you can't suddenly go " Ta Da !!! Omega"...the general response would be "Who...what...wtf is going on ?" The only light at the end of the tunnel for this theory is athat they have now cracked and started bringing more references in to previous Who ---"Jelly Babies indeed"

  • May 29, 2011, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Everything last season was explained???

    by lantern48

    Really? Why'd the TARDIS explode? Who and what caused it? What episode was that in? There are things from last series that still haven't been answered. So anyway, I' won't waste anymore time with this. But I will be back to tell you I told you so. Count on it.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:34 p.m. CST

    v'shael ... we are on the same wavelength...

    by Kelvington

    I always had the feeling SM wanted to tread a new path for Who, and he seems to be doing it. I think he wanted to get River out of the way so he doesn't have to look back at all. But I think he will continue to tip his hat to the past like he did last night with Tom Baker and David Tennant. perhapus... that's some incredible '60's Batman type logic there... well done old chum! LOL

  • May 29, 2011, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Kelvington

    by DoctorTom

    You could drive a truck through the holes of that argument. "But last year EVERYTHING was explained away, nice and cleaning within the course of the 13 episodes presented. And set up the Silence for this series. So my inherent Spider-sense says, everything will be explained away within the 13 episodes we will get to see. With perhaps the exception of a call back to an earlier River Song episode, and a set up for the next series." <br> So, with the exception of actually explaining the Big Bad behind all the major problems in Season 5, everything was wrapped up? That's seems quite a bit more than just a "set up for the next series". A setup for the next series is just throwing in something new at the end, like Star Trek TNG 2 parters that ended the season with part 1, or the series changing complications that would be thrown in during the last few minutes of the last episode of the season for Chuck. It doesn't cover something that has caused problems the entire season. So no, they didn't wrap up everything nicely. Like the Silents, they just made you forget for a while that they hadn't really tied up much at all. They just did a little razzle-dazzle with the Alliance that formed *because* of the actions of the Big Bad, and taking care of the *immediate* problem of the cracks without worrying about who caused them or why, and everybody thinks it's okay. Hell, Moffatt even hung a lantern on the fact that he still hadn't revealed who had caused all the problems. That's far from having things sorted out. <br> As to whether it's Omega or not, it wouldn't surprise me if it's Omega and it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't. He's definitely done some nods toward Omega, and it would certainly be plausible that Omega's coming back. He's certainly made a point of talking about bubble universes and universes outside our universe, and also letting Gaiman make the point that he wouldn't detect any Time Lords outside our universe. I agree that he won't just "drop" Omega in on us without giving some more buildup. It might happen; I suppose we'll see in the next episode or two if there's more mention of Omega or a cult of Omega. <br? Personally I'd love to see him bring Omega back and have Omega played by Peter Davison (since it was Davison's form that Omega had when banished back to the antimatter universe).

  • May 29, 2011, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Geek Rage

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Its fantastic isn't it !!! :)

  • May 29, 2011, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Oh incidentally

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Talking about Jelly Babies I'm sure there was a period of time when it wasn't Jelly Babies at all that the Doc offered, even though he called them that. I'm pretty sure they were either Jelly Beans or Liquorice allsorts. Imagine the debates and speculation if the internet had been around then !!!

  • May 29, 2011, 2:42 p.m. CST

    'It's a fucking liquorice allsort, you cu*t!'

    by penhapus

    the internet would have been great in the 70s

  • ....The Omega has been theorised and discussed and dissected and frowned upon and so on and so on...... ......and I just can't see him coming back.....yet. One day we will be graced with his presence, a la Rassilon but now is not the time. For the NEW casual viewer Omega needs more of a build up as there are alot out there that have no clue who he is (creator of the first black hole and all....) and his significance to the WHO universe. I myself have stated that he will be back and have incorrectly theorised he was behind all of the menace with Smiths Doc. But not so. V'Shael may be a pompous ass from time to time but he does know what he is talking about regarding WHO, so, listen to him and the rest of us. And if you're right, PLEASE come back and rub our noses in shit. I will even buy you a pint and we can toast the demise of a smug arsehole together!!!! Until then, be cool and wait it all out. One day you will be right on the money!!!!

  • ...as well as a few others he calls in as payment for past favours.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    diox

    by TheFerretLives

    Your central argument seems to be that because Doctor Who is popular, critically acclaimed and still going after nearly 50 years it is shit... And Stargate, based on a ropey film with that ladyboy from the Crying Game and spawning a handful of cheap as shit series filmed in a wood in Canada and now all dead and gone because not enough people wanted to watch it is better.... Hmmm a failure of logic there methinks, but that is to be expected of a Stargate fan, and a child, which you clearly are. Past your bedtime isn't it? F

  • Just wondering if some of the criticism against Karen's acting misplaced. Again my best comparison is with the Olivia character in Fringe. Everyone blamed the actress for the character being distant and cold. Now we know why she played the character that way. Was Amy emotionally off this season because it was intended to be that way ? Amy was a bit disconnected from her self as it were. I didn't see see it but that seems to be what was revealed this weekend, sigh.

  • May 29, 2011, 2:55 p.m. CST

    COULD IT BE?

    by CartoonScott

    This is going off something Halfscan said earlier: Little Amelia from Epi 1 of series 5 (Matt Smiths first proper ep) could be Amy's daughter, and prisoner zero who had escaped was actually Amy Pond....................Probably total bollocks

  • May 29, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST

    kelvington - No Rani or Valeyard?????? AAARRGGGHHHH!!! ;););)

    by sam jacksons wig

    I shall make my own Who..... with flapjacks....and hookers..... ah...SCREW THE WHOLE THING!!!!! ;)

  • May 29, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Shan- thanks for the explanation.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 29, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    AND ALSO

    by CartoonScott

    Following on from my previous Remember in the Pandorica ep when River visited Amys house, there were a spaceship imprints on the ground then, thats never been explained. Maybe shes been a plastic Amy for even longer than this series?

  • May 29, 2011, 3:01 p.m. CST

    @caractacuspotts thanks for replying on that one

    by nicko1981

    Watching every episode this season, the only major thing I've seen that is not explained but leaves a massive question in my mind is why Amy couldn't get out of that room with the silents on the ceiling, but then suddenly could. I just can't see any other time in which the switch could have taken place that has any indications in the episodes so far; Just after the orpanage locked room scene is where we first see eyepatch woman, the Silents could easily have taken Amy away in their proto-Tardis thing; the fact she is seeing them all the time means she wouldn't remember; copy her and return the ganger amy to the room. Not watched again to check the disappearance of the marks, but it would make perfect sense if they do disappear. I think all this speculation about return of Doctor 8; Valeyard, Rani, Omega and a load of other stuff I have never heard of makes little sense. It's all a little too much like die-hard fan's wishing for what they want to see, and too unlike what the new series is about; engaging new fans and not alienating them with things they won't understand from not watching the older series. Personally I have no idea what the Valeyard, Rani etc are; I saw the Paul McGann movie and thought it was absolute wank. I seriously think it will be revealed that Amy was switched in the Orphanage in the scene before the 1st appearance of the eyepatch woman.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:02 p.m. CST

    @ sam jacksons wig

    by lantern48

    Will do. And you better believe I'll be rubbing it in!

  • May 29, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Next weeks trailer

    by CartoonScott

    At 0.11, who is the man in the long coat, running with a gun in his hand?

  • May 29, 2011, 3:06 p.m. CST

    At Home with the Diox's

    by 2LeggedFreak

    "Hi Mumsy, I'm home !!!" " Hi Big Daddy, its meatloaf for tea !!" " Gee thats great honey!! Say what's that strange noise ?" " Oh Big Daddy, its little Diox again. He keeps scraping hand-fulls of shit out of his ass and throwing it at some poster of some British TV show." " O gee honey, this again !!! I wish to high heaven we'd never bought him that Stargate Box set" "Oh Big Daddy its good he's got an interest I suppose but I don't want to be cleaning shit off his walls and those box-sets are all icky and smell of prawn crackers." "Let me get changed and get the cattle prod out and I'll go and have a word." "Just be careful big daddy, he almost had your ear off last time "

  • May 29, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    cartoonscott - spaceship marks outside Amys house....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...they were collecting the literature she read as a child to create the Romans et al. Explained away unfortunately.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Cartoonscot - the impressions by Amy's house were explained

    by DoctorTom

    The impressions were in the shape of the base of a Dalek. They didn't show enough of the impressions for it to be a spaceship.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Why doe Who fans always want old villains back?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Sure, Omega was great and so was Sutekh but that's because they were relatively fresh ideas at the time. Why do people clamor for these old villains when Moffat has already demonstrated that new monsters such as The Silence and The Weeping Angels are equally interesting? I, for one, hope we don't get a connection to some classic DW villain. RTD tried the fanwank stuff for four seasons and it wasn't that interesting. Give me new bad guys like House any day.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Dick-o-fuck-face-whore-bastard..... fuck you and fuck stargate.

    by sam jacksons wig

    You stupid son of a bitch I have coughed up better than you. You're the type of arsehole that just keeps willing themselves into existance every day; no friends, no future, no present, no prospects. Please, keep hanging around here. You're adding to the already substantial amount of posts and are giving us great fun poking fun at you you filthy rectal belch. More stargate posts if you please!!!!! Come on, you diseased CUNT- I dare you!!!!!

  • May 29, 2011, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Actually Diox, Doctor Who tried to be more like Stargate once

    by DoctorTom

    It filmed the Paul McGann in Vancouver, just like Stargate. It just helped to prove that shows filming in Vancouver tend toward being crap. Look at Babylon 5 - great original series, but then goes and films "The Lost Tales" in Vancouver. Crap. Even JMS admits he's disappointed in it. Shows like Stargate only helped verify the Curse of Vancouver.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST

    At Home with the Diox's ---part 2

    by 2LeggedFreak

    "Gee Honey, this meat-loaf is great" "Glad you like it Big Daddy" "Oh Yeah, honey and the gravy is just the best. real chewy, just how I like it" "I'm so glad big Daddy" "And its good to see Mumsy that Diox has quietened down now and isn't so angry" " Yes Big Daddy, it is. But do you think he's, you know, masturbating too much " "What ? I....Oh Diox son not at the table. Not in front of your Mom. Stop !!!" " OH ITS IN MY EYES !!!"

  • May 29, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    The difference in Who and Stargate

    by 2LeggedFreak

    When Who gets cancelled it can regenerate !! Aarf Aarf. ThankyouverymuchI'mhereallweektrytheveal.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Stop going on about Stargate. It's dead. Let it lie.

    by V'Shael

  • May 29, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Lantern- look forward to it matey!!! Stay safe.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 29, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    A dedicated Docback...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...now that's something! To be fair, I've been around AICN for a long time and they historically cover all things Who -making big noises about the return in 2005. I doubt it's is simply to do with traffic and 'noise level'. Thanks Merrick for giving us this space to debate, argue, ponder, wish aloud and talk all things Whovian and SF. One of the things I enjoy about these talkbacks is the geek 'ideal' that writers understand or know how a story is going to pan out over a half-century (or even a series; I'm looking at you "Lost") -the Peter Cushing movie was a studio effort with a big name actor of his generation and borrowed the ideas of BBC Dr Who, but certainly wasn't planned or produced to be canon. Now, in my day job I happen to work with rights and licenses to certain properties -including the Terry Nation Estate, Gerry Anderson, IPC, ITV and the BBC. You'd be amazed how disparate rights holders ideas feed back into development and can stymie, curtail or block even the best ideas. It's nowhere near as easy as it may appear to line all the dominos up to fully realize your script, characters, story arcs, designs, titles or musical aspirations! Knowing all that, it's amazing that producers do get over all the issues and make great tv - it can't last, so that's why I bang on about enjoying the current age of SF in films and tv -that's why I'm actively working in my capacity to try to build upon the current clement climate for SF and fantasy. Oh, and it seems even Dicksinholsters has 'come in from the cold'. I knew the insidious effect of the Docback would charm the troll... and yes, he should enjoy "Who" while he waits for his beloved to be reanimated by some Lazarus effect. Here's to Perri's perky mammaries! (May the force be with them, always!) Oh yeah, this weeks episode was OK; by itself not that special, but the set up to next week looks like the pay-off for some lazy writing and very worn 'borrowed' ideas. My two cents: Amy was probably kidnapped back in ep1 of the series 5 -the footprints in the garden, the Romans, the Pandorica book all stem from then. Someone or something (Omega) has been manipulating the Doctor through little Amelia all along. Interesting. Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • May 29, 2011, 3:30 p.m. CST

    2 legged-once again you have me howling with laughter!!! Well done, sir!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 29, 2011, 3:31 p.m. CST

    the difference between Stargate and Doctor Who

    by lynxpro

    Stargate on tv has always been crap. Doctor Who is only crap when it is RTD writing the episode.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Kelv

    by Seph_J

    Honestly mate, must you do the "it's not the rani, it's not the valeyard, Amy's house in not a TARDIS, it's not Paul McGann" speech every post? Corden's house was a TARDIS near enough, Tom Baker and DT's voice WAS in THIS WEEKS EPISODE, the dreamlord was close enough to the Valeyard. You may hope any pray for these characters and ideas to never appear in Who again, but the rest of us like to speculate and enjoy. Seriously, your repetition on these matters just comes across as bitter, twisted and hateful. And if you're "the first to admit when you're wrong", how about repenting for that clanger earlier on when you said the timelords returned for 'The Stolen Earth' and 'Journey's End' - cos I don't remember that ;) Peace.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:36 p.m. CST

    cbtml- yeah, new villans are interesting, but so are old ones.

    by sam jacksons wig

    especially a new take on old villains for a new audience. New WHO fans are being ingrained into the mythos with a fresh twist, and that can live side by side with new fiends. Plus they have an inbuilt story that can be easily capitalised on for ratings. As long as they don't eclipse the Doc and his story they can certainly help move it forward and pay tribute to Doctors past. In 20 years who's to say they wont be resurrecting villains from 2005 to present???

  • May 29, 2011, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Lynxpro, that's not strictly true.

    by DoctorTom

    I have documented evidence that occasionally Doctor Who could be crap without RTD - The Twin Dilemma, Timelash and The Two Bonnies, er, Time and The Rani show that other writers can mess it up too. <br> It is fair to say, though, that most of Stargate's writing has had all the quality of a pantomime Myrka.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    LOL well spotted seph_j

    by TheFerretLives

    Although I can't talk I joined those the other day who called Leela - Susan Jameson not Louise Jameson although in my defence someone had already put it and I copied, but I should know better to check my data I'm a 'king journalist! F

  • May 29, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Old Villains

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Only bring them back if you can do something with them. The Daleks were okay if a bit over-used. The cyber-men--my jury is still out on them--wasn't a huge fan or the new series version. The Master-- I'll be the first to admit that Delgado and Ainley were a bit "Dick Dastardly" but I can live with that far better than I can with the "stupid and exceedingly irritating" version they had Simm do.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    ummphoo

    by Shan

    Can you explain at all how Terry Nation and then his estate has so much control over the property? How come the BBC didn't negotiate a more flexible and advantageous arrangement over the use of the Daleks back in 1963? They have always needed the show more than the show needs them. How especially did the 'must use once in every new series' clause come about if that is in fact true?

  • May 29, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    ferret lives

    by Seph_J

    you're not? tell me you passed your 100wpm?!

  • May 29, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    SJWig

    by Shan

    You're welcome, though it's really just me theorising and using other people's ideas. I could easily be wrong, too.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST

    dickholder I really really

    by Seph_J

    pity you. But I'm glad you are there, so everyone else here can feel mighty good about themselves.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:56 p.m. CST

    ummphoo - tv writing "work for hire" question

    by JPKk

    I would have thought much of the writing on a show like Dr. Who was "work for hire". That unless stipulated any characters created were part of the franchise, not the creator of the character/concept. I assumed The Daleks concept was similar to the Time Gate created by Ellison for"The City on the Edge of Forever episode of Star Trek.

  • May 29, 2011, 3:56 p.m. CST

    seph_j

    by TheFerretLives

    I'm not what? Not as good as 100 wpm but around 50-60 when I get going. F

  • That's why we had Daleks coming back every season under RTD, and occasional appearances by other old monsters - Cybermen, Sontarans, the Macra(!), the Master. Moffatt himself even showed that he likes bringing back some of the old monsters - the latest version of Silurians, for example, and everybody and his grandmother in the Alliance. Even some of the nu-Who creatures could be called "old" now - the Slitheen would certainly count after all their appearances in both the Doctor Who and Sarah Jane series. <br> <br> When people want old monsters brought back, they mean that they want to bring back their favorites from the old days, that might have potential, especially if given a new twist. That's why you see monsters like the Ice Warriors and the Zygons, and characters like Omega asked for. Even the Valeyard falls in there, more from the standpoint of "rehabilitating" the character or (in the case of where the series is now) reconciling his actions in Trial of a Time Lord with the Time War. You probably have people who want to bring back Alpha Centauri just to see if, even with modern techniques, he'd *still* look like a penis wearing a shower curtain. It's not the less popular of the old villains/monsters that people want - I doubt you have many people clamoring for the return of the Gastropods, the Kraal (from Android Invasion) or the Mutts/butterfly creatures from The Mutants. <br> <br> Sure, there's a risk bringing some of the old villains back, but then there's also the same risk when creating new monsters - there was a sizeable fraction of people who weren't thrilled by the Weeping Angels depiction in the 2 parter after how they were shown to be in Blink. And, for successes like the Weeping Angels and the Silence, you also end up with ones like the Absorbaloff and the Scribble Monster. If the monsters are popular, it's okay to bring them back, whether they're old or new. (I'd still like to see a Judoon vs. Sontaran fight.) As long as they keep making new monsters, it's okay to throw in old ones now and then. Especially if it keeps them from having Daleks in at least 2 episodes every season. <br> <br> Unless they're Stone Daleks. They could do another episode or two with them. Stone Daleks are cool. (Just don't show the hump back.)

  • May 29, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST

    ferret

    by Seph_J

    I am also of the same profession, and DAMN I'm finding that 100 nearly impossible to get. You use Teeline?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    One of the things which I keep thinking about

    by HornOrSilk

    So, it seems many of the Doctor's enemies are in on the "we are from your future" like River Song. This is the only reason why they could know things which the Doctor doesn't -- like who River Song is. Or the crack in space. Or, whatever else we will see. And if you ask, do they know who River is, just remember the Stone Dalek.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    seph_j

    by TheFerretLives

    I was trained in Teeline but never drilled with it enough to get fast which is kinda the point! My shorthand lesson was in the morning and the dictation the tutor used to do used to send me to sleep and I mean literally! I have a ipod nano type thing that records up to three or four hours of audio really well so who needs written notes? F

  • May 29, 2011, 4:10 p.m. CST

    Also, with the Doctor

    by HornOrSilk

    I guess part of his failure is he fails to save River from becoming a weapon?

  • May 29, 2011, 4:12 p.m. CST

    very good point hornorsilk

    by TheFerretLives

    I'd forgotten about both of those things, kinda got misplaced in the excitement of last years' finale. F

  • May 29, 2011, 4:13 p.m. CST

    ferret

    by Seph_J

    yeah thats kind of how I see it... except for covering court. When I get stuck in court I wish I'd drilled a little harder, if you, er.. know what I mean.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Shan / Mediat...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...if you want to know more about the rights of the Terry Nation Estate you'd need to talk to Tim Hancock at the Roger Hancock Agency who deal with them. I can't answer specific questions like that of the Dalek usage (cos' I don't know!) -my area of expertise in licensing rights and packaging them for other media. I'm currently trying to untangle one situation with regards to the old TV21 magazines and the use of the Dalek Empire strips that appeared on the back (written by Terry Nation) and later adapted into a tv spin-off "The Destroyers". Those rights are split three ways between the BBC, TNE and other licensee's -but I'm boring people now! :) Mediat - yes, most tv writing is 'work for hire' (that's my background, though I've escaped the Gerbil Wheel now) and ideas get created all the time which networks and studios (tm) and (r) and make a fortune from -it's a very wise writer like Terry Nation who writes on the back of napkin his designs and ideas and copyrights them for prosperity -clearly he WAS a visionary! That's unusual (hence the Dalek situation) and most writers sign away their intellectual property with the script these days. Phew, that's enough of that - too much like 'business' and I'm here for fun! :) Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • May 29, 2011, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Shan/Mediat/Ummphoo - "work for hire"

    by DoctorTom

    Ummphoo - good luck trying to untie the Gordian Knot of TV21 Magazine and Dalek Empire strips! Actually, you're not boring me with the talk about rights. <br> <br> I know the rights of a lot of old monsters and characters were owned by the original writers if they hadn't been drafted up by the BBC beforehand. I remember reading that Johnny Byrne got a payment for Nyssa being used as a regular character as he came up with her. This would be compared toTurlough, where there had been drafts by Saward and JN-T of what they wanted, so the BBC owned him outright. (Originally he was going to appear in a completely different story than he did, written by a different author.) <br> <br> With the original writers owning some of the monsters and characters, people in the '90's and '00's could go to the original creators and license their use in new ventures. That's how you managed to get the videos like Downtime - they went to Haisman and Lincoln to get permission to use the Yeti - and also Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart. <br> <br> I don't know who owns the rights to the Sontarans - I suspect that it was Robert Holmes since he created them for a story back before he was script editor. That might be why they also popped up in a couple of the "professional fan spin-off" videos that came out (Shakedown, and one other one that BBV did.) <br> <br> What I'd like to know is when the change from creator-owned to work-for-hire occurred in Doctor Who. I know that the later companions (Turlough on) were dreamed up by the production staff first, so that they would fall under work for hire. I don't know about the monsters, though. Is Sil owned by Philip Martin? Is Fenric owned by Ian Briggs? I don't know if the monster ownership by BBC started with nu-Who or how much was done in the old series.

  • May 29, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Diox - I'll take you at your word

    by DoctorTom

    I can believe that you're the expert on "shit" and "assholes"

  • May 29, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    Dicksinholders is *gasp* correct...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...and his analogy 'sticks'. It is indeed as essential and satisfying as he alludes too! A fine motion of logic -smoothly done. Whereas "Stargate" is to tv as the Dodo is to ubiquitous. Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • May 29, 2011, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Well played, ummphoo

    by DoctorTom

    I'm sure the analogy isn't the only thing about Diox that "sticks", though

  • May 29, 2011, 5:08 p.m. CST

    @lynxpro

    by berserkrl

    "Doctor Who is only crap when it is RTD writing the episode." No doubt that's why "Fear Her" was so good and "Midnight" was so bad.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:15 p.m. CST

    @cartoonscott

    by berserkrl

    "At 0.11, who is the man in the long coat, running with a gun in his hand?" I think it's Rory, and the coat is actually his Roman cape. (Why he's back in his Roman costume I don't know.)

  • May 29, 2011, 5:30 p.m. CST

    @lantern48 on Omega

    by veteran_of_mu

    There would be a good reason for bringing Omega back if "THE ULTIMATE SPOILER" above is in play ...

  • May 29, 2011, 5:32 p.m. CST

    Omega insignia

    by berserkrl

    The Omega insignia in the trailer is the same one the clerics wear in "Time of Angels."

  • May 29, 2011, 5:35 p.m. CST

    [dioxholster] if you mean...

    by Kelvington

    everyone has it, and you do so to live. Then I agree with you. sam jacksons wig - For you at some point and just for you, I'll make a video with the Rani, The Valeyard and Matt Smith... so you can save money on those hookers. :) ummphoo - Thanks for bringing actual real world knowledge into this. NOW GET OUT THERE'S NO ROOM FOR LOGIC AND ACCOUNTABILITY HERE!! LOL Kidding! I love seeing the real world business end stuff. Wouldn't they have to pay for rights to use Omega? And in a tight budget wouldn't it just be easier to make it a new villain say... Beta? I just saved SM 5000 quid! Beta is a registered trademark of "Reverse The Polarity Productions, LLC" Too late it's mine! Oh on this front, I've watched all the Confidentials, but for the life of me I can't figure out what editing program they are using. It's not Vegas, it's not Final Cut, that I know. But it doesn't look like Avid either. Some of the screens are wrong. If anyone knows FOR SURE, please let me know. doctortom - you are correct, and I'm wrong, upon further review they did leave some unanswered questions. I just watched them finale again. I see what you mean. But I think any question they are going to answer (except the Slience) they did. I don't think we will go back and find out more about the Pandorica or the big bang 2. But we shall see.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:38 p.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by Cap'n Jack

    Amy's ganger wasn't "alive" like the ones that become alive during the electrical storm. It was just a shell that Amy was subconsciously controlling while her real body was in some kind of stasis in the birthing chamber. So the Doctor wasn't killing anything.

  • May 29, 2011, 5:54 p.m. CST

    My Docback friends... You have never risen higher.

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    702 talkback posts. And that's without a BBCA showing this week. I imagine next week is going to be even crazier.

  • Some of the posts unfortunately suffer from dioxhicity and should not be considered. On the positive note, no one is paying attention to random dioxhins and they only corrode communication when we pay attention to them. They disappear and fade like alternative universes and science fiction shows that fail to maintain a suitable fan base. Hopefully, if more who-centric comments are made, the docbacks will be dedioxhified.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST

    @ berserkrl

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    To be fair, the majority of RTD episodes were either average of lackluster. I'll definitely give RTD props for Midnight, which is probably one of the most frightening episodes of Who to date; I still refrain from watching it when I marathon my favorite Who episodes. And Waters of Mars was also equally brilliant. But aside from those, there were a lot, a LOT of episodes that he wrote that were just. . .well, not very good. Steven Moffat's track record generally tends to be much better.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:25 p.m. CST

    Mediat: Dickholder makes me think of...

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    ...a homeless guy ranting at a guy in a big mansion and shouting "Your house sucks!" I used to get annoyed with him but now I just laugh at him.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    @maelstrom_zero

    by berserkrl

    Oh, I don't deny that Moffat is much better than RTD. And of course RTD was responsible for "Love & Monsters," which unluckily was the first NuWho episode I ever saw (which explains why I didn't give the show a chance again until series 5, and then I had to play catchup). Still, I think he had his share of pretty good episodes ("Sound of Drums," "Stolen Earth," etc.).

  • May 29, 2011, 6:30 p.m. CST

    I also strongly recommend...

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    the AICN Extra Stuff mod (http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/92278) if you have Firefox. You just download the Greasemonkey add-on (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/) and then the AICN Extra Stuff mod. Not only does it make these TBs look much better, but you can hi-light TBers you like and (most importantly) put people like Diox on "Ignore" so his messages never show up. I've not actually done the last one as I like laughing at him.

  • May 29, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    Doctortom / write for hire...

    by Rob Sloane

    ... sadly the days when you could claim the rights for x monster, or y concept, or z name seem to be numbered as a writer. We live in an age of buyouts, rolling contracts and superinjunctions. Apparently the TV21 deals were all done down the local over a handshake and a couple of bob. In those days shows were unlikely to last more than a couple of years and the creators could never imagine that nearly 50 years later that their creations would be still going strong. Hopefully I can find my Alexander to sever this knot before things get too convoluted. I'm in two minds about this: as a creative, of course you want to hold on to the rights -but as a business, it makes more sense to work with one licensor rather than chase down props departments, music workshops, surviving cast, estates and find a chain of ownership and debtors attached! It's far from glamorous... Anyway, back on topic: next week I expect we'll top 1000 posts and have 3 agonizing months of speculation - I'm enjoying SM's tenure, with some reservations, as it's simply NOT for children any more. "RF" and "AP" were riffing on serious horror imagery (eyes in the wall, vats of people percolating acid, shape shifting, dopplegangers, mutated flesh creatures ala "The Thing" and melting faces...) -I kinda miss the Nazi Daleks and flying UNIT fortresses! Silly but if you are seven years old -COOL! Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • I agree they wrapped up the Pandorica pretty well. As for Big Bang 2, they might or might not revisit the event itself. <br> <br> The thing is, the whoe Pandorica bit was a group of aliens misinterpreting who was behind all the cracks in time. We've had the catchphrase "Silence Will Fall", but no real explanation as to who is the ultimate big bad behind it or why. <br> <br> There's been the suggestion of the Silents, but we still don't know why. We don't even know if they're the ones in charge of this whole thing or if they're working for somebody else. <br> We know the Cybermen are in the next episode, and we've been told Episode 12 will deal with the Silents while Episode 13 will deal with the Cybermen. Does this mean the Cybermen are the ones ultimately behind all of this? Or is there someone else using all of them (which is where all the Omega speculation comes from). <br> <br> For the Silents themselves to be the main ones behind it, they still have to explain why they wanted to cause all the cracks in time and space as well as trying to make a TARDIS (assuming that it is their spaceship that we saw in the Lodger and not just someone else's timeship that they managed to get their hands on through their Jedi mind tricks) and all the stuff going on with the baby. <br> <br> The Cybermen would have had reason for introducing cracks in time/space - the bulk of them were stuck in the void between dimensions (along with what are the last of the RTD Daleks, unless Dalek Caan makes a surprise comeback - but I think Victory of the Daleks was a definitive statement on how Moffatt wants to handle all the RTD Dalek shenanigans). Cracks might let them get into this universe. <br> Cybermen could also have a use for the Flesh - if you can take minds and have it make an imprint for a new, autonomous ganger body, it would be a way of quickly whipping up fresh meat puppets to turn into Cybermen. <br> <br> But, with the preview for next week's episode, it looks like we've got at least one more faction involved - the Monks (and maybe the Church, if the Monks aren't affiliated with them). So, it might be that the whole Alliance has been involved in all of this, and that the Silents are actually part of the Alliance (now, if not before). It doesn't make sense for the Alliance to have not known what was going on before about who was causing the cracks, but it might be that someone was playing the rest of the Alliance and just didn't bother telling them what exactly was going on with the cracks and why. Is it the Cybermen? Is it Omega? Is it the Time Agency, not happy about the Doctor running around through time not under their control? It's conceivable that the Allaince included some other people/beings that don't like the Doctor. We'll find out soon enough who's behind it.

  • May 29, 2011, 7:55 p.m. CST

    As to the Alliance still being around...

    by DoctorTom

    ...it can still be explained away as Amy remembering that there was the Alliance in the first world (as well as the original matter in the Pandorica), so it would make sense for the Alliance to have been remembered back into existence. Even if they don't remember specifics about the cracks in time (and some of the races who have had time travel technology at one point or another, like the Sontarans, the Cybermen or the Daleks, might remember the cracks), they probably still remember getting together to stop the Doctor if not for the specific reasons why. <br> <br> Come to think of it, having Amy give birth to a "Time Lord" child that they could use as a weapon sounds just like the convoluted "logic" that Cybermen have been known for.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:09 p.m. CST

    Merrick - A way to help AICNers avoid DrWho spoilers

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    Since the US and UK will be out of synch for a while, here's an idea. Take a representative sampling of nonspoilery Docback opinions on whether it was a good or bad episode and put them at the bottom of your main posting at the top after an episode airs in the UK. Then those who are curious can read those and not be tempted to scan the threads and get spoiled.

  • May 29, 2011, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Even just half a dozon one-line takes would help

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

  • May 29, 2011, 8:32 p.m. CST

    doctortom I'm with you up to the Cybermen part...

    by Kelvington

    It depends on WHICH Cybermen these are, if they are from Cyberdyne then the whole stuck in the void makes sense. However, if they are the REAL Cybermen, then their motivations might be different. I'm not saying they aren't a part of the NEW alliance, but the Pandorica alliance had Cyberdyne Cybermen not REAL Cybermen. I know it sounds like I'm picking nits, but honest I'm not. LOL Up above one of the things that was mentioned as unresolved was who was controlling the TARDIS, when River was in it. The TARDIS was, she always has and always will. She can move controls and take the Doctor where he needs to go, or in this case where River needed to go. Also, in the pirate episode when the TARDIS went off on it's own, it's not really suppose to do that, in "The Pandorica Open" clearly states that if there is no one in the TARDIS the engines will shut down. But that didn't happen in Pirates episode. Just saying. As for who says... "Silence Will Fall" the confidential has stated that was the voice of a Silent saying that. Which I thought was rubbish, but if they say it, it must be true. :)

  • May 29, 2011, 9:15 p.m. CST

    Kelvington - A though on the Cybermen

    by DoctorTom

    Actually that's not picking nits, but might be a good point. I suspect they won't get into that, though, because then you have to get into explaining this universe's Cybermen compared to the other universe's Cybermen. <br> <br> Also, we know it was the parallel universe Cybermen who were in the Alliance in The Pandorica Opens - they made the comment about "ALL universes will be deleted". (Maybe it was their original plan to use the cracks to escape, but things got out of their control). <br> <br> The thing about Big Bang 2 - when Amy remembers the Cybermen, maybe her subconscious meeting of Cybermen merges with what the original univere's "memories", so that now, after Big Bang 2, Cybermen have always looked like this no matter what universe they came from. <br> <br> Now, if I recall correctly, the Cybermen in the Pandorica Opens had the C on their chest. We don't have the C here. Maybe they actually are this universe's Cybermen. Then again, maybe there was a "merger" in technologies with the Cybermen between the two different universes by this point. I suspect though that they just decided to drop the C because it was harder to be stylin' and profilin' with that huge C on there chest. Or, by getting rid of the C they think they're wearing a disguise (and no, I don't see them thinking they're disguising themselves as this world's Cybermen. I leave that sort of thing to David Banks or Gary Russell to explain.)

  • Since the Silents were royally hosed by the Doctor's actions during The Day of the Moon, maybe we'll find out that when we see them again we find out that they've been taking the Flesh technology so that they can project themselves into ganger bodies so that they can move around - even if they get spotted and killed because of the posthypnotic suggestion to humans, it would only be the ganger Silent body that was killed - the Silent himself would pop out again of wherever they set up. <br> <br> Another thought that could go along with that. If the gangers take the developed Flesh technology, can it be manipulated so that they could project themselves into a ganger body but have the ganger body look like something other than a Silent, so they don't get automatically attacked? <br> <br> Oh, I could see why the Silents might have wanted the cracks in time - it would have been a way to evacuate the Earth quickly after the Doctor set up the message. The only problem is that I don't see how they could have managed it from a timeline standpoint. The message was sent out after all of the Big Bang 2 stuff, so there wouldn't have been the need to evacuate Earth at the time they could have put someone on the TARDIS to cause it.

  • May 29, 2011, 9:24 p.m. CST

    2 posts up = "thought", not "though"

    by DoctorTom

    stupid lack of edit button.

  • That wasn't Amy's baby we saw in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon. It was a ganger of Amy's baby. It needed the special life support in the space suit to stabilize it. <br> <br> Oh, and another possible reason for Omega or someone like that (or another group) to be involved as a big bad: <br> <br> Amy was a ganger since episode 2, maybe episode 1. She's been in that birthing coffin all this time. The link between Amy and gangerAmy has had to function through time (We've had different time periods between TIA/DOTM, the Curse of the Pirate Script, the latest 2 parter, and whenever The Doctor's Wife takes place) and can even keep Amy connected to her ganger when the ganger goes into a bubble universe. There has to be some serious technology involved here - the Silents steal technology, they don't develop it themselves. The Cybermen haven't shown anything like that before. The Time Lords obviously have shown that type of technology (the Doctor fiddling with everybody's cell phone, the phone in the TARDIS). Possibly it's the Church/Time Agency/Monks who can provide this technology along with time travel technology - Flesh technology was 22nd century, so wouldn't have been around in the 20th century without time travel being involved. So, they still need to reveal who/what is doling out this technology (we might be seeing this next week).

  • May 29, 2011, 9:58 p.m. CST

    It's FAMY (Flesh Amy)...

    by Kelvington

    If we have learned only one thing from "Fringe" it's clever names for alternate reality people work really well. So let's start calling her FAmy and The Doctornate or DoppleDoc or Doptor. LOL As for the "C" on the chest, they even used them in "The Next Doctor" I don't believe the production department would just take them off for no reason. So I'm going with these are the original.... Even though I'm not a fan of the updated design. Give me one mummy wrapped Cyberleader PLEASE! SPOILER.... We've seen pictures of the Cybermats, which the CyberDyne ones never had. So I'm nearly 10% sure they are the real deal. LOL But I'm no so sure as to bet on it. I just have to accept from a production stand point the prosaic answers. The robes are just people we aren't suppose to see yet. The Omega symbol is there granted... but it has something in it. So it could be the obvious, the Alpha, since Alpha and Omega have been used for god foolishness for a long time. As in he (god) is the Alpha and the Omega. So I'm saying it is there and it does stand out a bit. But it's also not alone. We will have more questions than answers next Saturday evening. Let's just hope we can all be civil. LOL

  • May 29, 2011, 10:20 p.m. CST

    Why not "GAmy" for Ganger Amy?

    by DoctorTom

    For the flesh version of the Doctor, you could go with Doppeldoctor, or just John Smith (which is the name most people thought the doppeldoctor what saying to use) <br> <br> I'm not sure that the production team didn't change the Cyberman look slightly just because they didn't like the big "C" on the chest of them. It could be as simple as that. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned the Cybermen we've seen on this world as originally starting in the parallel Earth. It's a lot easier to say that they started on a parallel Earth and came to this one than it is to say that some came from a parallel Earth, but really the ones we are dealing with here started on a duplicate of Earth that was on the other side of the sun, but drifted away from it's orbit without making *our* Earth leave its orbit, then made a trip out past the Kuiper belt then came back and was destroyed in 1988, but nobody noticed it at the time - but there were survivors that jumped to yet another planet that had a race that was made of ice, and they took over their cryogenic facilities, and ..... <br> It's almost easier at this point to say Mondas was eaten by one big crack in space and time, and Amy remembered it as parallel world cybermen were here all along. <br> <br> As for your mention of Alpha as well as Omega, and Alpha and Omega referring to God, they could be referring to Omega the God, which he is in his normal antimatter bubble universe. <br> <br> As long as they don't show that the monks are minions of the Ancient Osirians, who are trying to bring back Sutekh by placing alien parasites in people to take them over, enslaving races to build large transmat gates that work like rotary phones...although it *would* give the Doctor a chance to ask "how come advanced civilizations would use a rotary dial transmat?" ;)

  • May 29, 2011, 10:28 p.m. CST

    re: doctortom

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    On a similar point to yours regarding who exactly has the technology to maintain communication across different timestreams, I'm fairly certain that there's some kind of Time Lord involved. The fact that the technology you've mentioned has only been displayed by Time Lords, and the fact that--get this--the spacesuit was repairing itself (much like how the TARDIS manages to repair itself), it seems like there's a bit too much Time Lord technology involved to be coincidence. What that means, I have absolutely no idea. I'm a 2005 Who fan who hasn't yet seen the earlier stuff, so all this Omega stuff means nothing to me. But it's certainly possible that there's some renegade Time Lord out there, given all the odd hints that have been dropped here and there.

  • May 29, 2011, 11:45 p.m. CST

    So, here's a question -

    by DoctorTom

    Is Sexy affected by the "forget me" power of the Silents? Could she suffer from the post-hypnotic suggestions? <br> <br> If so, did she ever "see" the Neil Armstrong footage in her databank?

  • May 29, 2011, 11:59 p.m. CST

    I coined "FlAmy" (tm) yesterday!!

    by -Halfscan-

    Not only that, I saw Karen first... so she's mine.

  • May 30, 2011, 12:36 a.m. CST

    Ganger Omega - continuing THE ULTIMATE SPOILER

    by veteran_of_mu

    Omega's big problem was that he ain't got no body. Well, and nobody cares for him. Nobody. He's so sad and lo-o-o-only, won't some sweet mama come and take a chance with him, 'cause he ain't so bad ... Apologies, went into a kind of David Lee Roth trance. Getting back down to business it's pretty plain that the Flesh would be a dream come true for Omega. He could certainly control a ganger body through sheer force of will and that would allow him to interact with any part of our universe. Now then, why? Well, if THE ULTIMATE SPOILER up above is correct, he'd be locked out of his own antimatter bubble universe too. Which would be a bummer even for him. Without the Master to use to break into the Doctor's universe a la Rassilon he has to come up with some other way in. Realistically, the only way for him is stowing away inside the TARDIS when it is first stolen. And the only way he can do that is by creating a technology that will make anyone - even Sexy - forget what they've seen the moment they look away. Now then Omega's only problem is getting rid of the damned Doctor so Omega can remake the universe in the form of ... um, a single planet with no stars. Which he almost pulled off but unfortunately for him Sexy had a back-up plan worked out through the Amy artefact. Serioudly you have to understand that Amy was created by Sexy to make certain that the Doc and Sexy could not be erased. I mean Amy's entire life story was created by Sexy. Doc doesn't come back for 14 years because of an accident? Since The Doctor's Wife we all know that's not true. Sexy MADE Amy obsessed with the Doc specifically to get herself out of Omega's exploding time-loop. Which brings us to River. We've heard that the Doc would never help her if he knew who and WHAT she is. Well, What is she then? She's the Hand of Omega. And that means you better believe she's a weapon. Okay, I admit it, if Ep 7 bears out any of this stuff I will crown myself King Of All Docbacks. Unlikely but you have been warned.

  • May 30, 2011, 1:20 a.m. CST

    Actually, we don't *know* that Omega has no body

    by DoctorTom

    He had a copy of the Peter Davison body when last we saw him. Granted, it wasn't doing well and had rice krispies stuck all over it, but there was still a body that got sent back to the anti-matter universe. <br> <br> That doesn't mean that he still has that body, or that he's not looking for a way to project himself out of his antimatter bubble universe. I don't see them saying that he's locked out of his own antimatter bubble universe. For that matter we don't know what's happened with Omega between Arc of Infinity and now. They seemed to be resurrecting other Time Lords to help fight the Time War, we don't know if the Time Lords tried to get Omega to help then. <br> <br> Granted, if you go by what was put in some of the 7th Doctor novels, including the Remembrance of the Daleks novelization, Omega and Rassilon were contemporaries. There were the rumors that Rassilon may have caused Omega to get stuck in the black hole, so when he came back he probably wasn't too keen on bringing back someone he had made sure had a "convenient accident". Also, Omega didn't like the Time Lords for leaving him stuck in there, so he might not have helped with the Time War at all. RTD probably would have had him receive a better offer from the Daleks. Heck, someone might pick up a thread in a story in the future that states that the Dalek soldier was able to pull Davros out because of Omega manipulating things (unknown to the Dalek). <br> I also don't see River being the Hand of Omega. They've already gone the route of a Time Lord sentient weapon, and it was was the weapon in the Season 25 story that flew away from Earth and destroyed the Cyber fleet after the Doctor tricked his enemies into using the weapon. It shouldn't be confused at all for the Time Lord tool/weapon that was in the Season 25 story that flew away from Earth and destroyed Skaro and the Daleks after the Doctor tricked his enemies into using the tool/weapon....er, nevermind. ;) Still, I'll believe River is the Hand of Omega when I see her hand Amy an energized baseball bat. <br> <br> Still, if she were the Hand of Omega she wouldn't be needing to use a blaster. She'd just be able to energize her hand the way the Hand energized Ace's baseball bat, and River would be able to bitchslap a Dalek into oblivion.

  • May 30, 2011, 1:21 a.m. CST

    The return of Peter Davison?

    by Shan

    Just pure speculation on my part but it Omega does come back, they could get Peter Davison to play him as Omega did copy a print of his body. Also, if they ever have the super computer Xoanon back on the show, perfect excuse to get Tom Baker back to do the voice if he's interested.

  • May 30, 2011, 1:39 a.m. CST

    @cartoonscott

    by berserkrl

    Above, I wrote: "I think it's Rory, and the coat is actually his Roman cape." But I got a closer look and I take it back.

  • May 30, 2011, 1:41 a.m. CST

    BBC America delayed Who because of MEMORIAL DAY???

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Talk about STUPID. Most people in America who watch Who on BBC America probably either have DVRs, TiVo, or even VCRs to record it, if they happen to be on vacation this weekend. And given the costs of everything nowadays, the number going away will be less than usual. So, they're screwing over an ENTIRE country of fans, just because they anticipate that a percentage of them MIGHT be away from a TV that Saturday? Idiotic. >:(

  • May 30, 2011, 2:16 a.m. CST

    @theghostwholurks

    by berserkrl

    Screwing themselves over, too. They think they'd lose viewers by showing it on Memorial Day. They don't seem to have considered that they might lose viewers who decide to download the episode rather than waiting a week.

  • May 30, 2011, 2:39 a.m. CST

    I'm begining to think that the majority of Who fans...

    by V'Shael

    are somehow still not convinced that this nu-Who is real Who. And hence the obsession with bringing back old enemies and characters. It's like you all need constant reassurance that YES, this really is Doctor Who. You're not imagining it. It's not a spin-off. I wasn't involved in the fan scene back in the pre-Internet days. Anyone who was, please answer me this... was there recurring rants and theories all through the Peter Davison, Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy eras, that Romana was coming back? That Adric would be saved? That Nyssa would be back? That Tegan would be back? Somehow I doubt it. I think this rampant nostalgia crack that many older fans are on right now, is a symptom of the nu-Who series. Fed by RTD, it seems. And while you could argue it made a sort of sense to bring back the Daleks, the Cybermen, and even the Master... we definitely could have done without Davros.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:03 a.m. CST

    v'shael and others...

    by emeraldboy

    who live in ireland. the walking dead shuffles its zombie like way on to rte 2 tonight.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:12 a.m. CST

    @v'shael

    by berserkrl

    I think it's a symptom of the internet as such.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:31 a.m. CST

    @v'shael... it's a modern thing...

    by Kelvington

    I remember sitting around with a group of Whovians watching each new episode from Davison on. Each week we were just stunned at how cool the show is. Even the Kandyman was cool back then. When they killed Adric, we thought for sure they would bring him back, until the end credits rolled. There was debate about if he COULD save him, and then the next episode answered it. Long before there was a "time lock" we all just accepted that he The Doctor knew Adric couldn't be saved. I think the most we talked about was either a current plot hole, or something cool about each episode. Very little speculation about what was to come. Trial of a Timelord probably garnered the most speculation, particularly when Peri died (oops spoilers), but there just wasn't ANYONE who either had seen the shows in advance or was connected to the show in some way where you could get spoilers. The only people spoiling anything back then was BBC News, and they would announce MONTHS in advance that the current Doctor was leaving. Wow, it's too early to be talking about this stuff, I think I'll go back to bed and see if I continue to dream about the Silence using JLO as their spoke's person.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:32 a.m. CST

    Yes, there was such talk before

    by HornOrSilk

    JNT often encouraged it, I think.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:33 a.m. CST

    As for the return of old enemies

    by HornOrSilk

    It doesn't matter if the audience doesn't know who they are. After all, they don't know who new enemies are, either. What matters is if there is a good story to use for them, and if so, why not use them. But if there is not, then don't use them.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:42 a.m. CST

    moffat promised that there will be a new take on an

    by emeraldboy

    old villain.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:44 a.m. CST

    @doctortom on River's Hand (Spoiler?)

    by veteran_of_mu

    "Still, if she were the Hand of Omega she wouldn't be needing to use a blaster. She'd just be able to energize her hand the way the Hand energized Ace's baseball bat, and River would be able to bitchslap a Dalek into oblivion." Or energize the glove of the astronaut suit to bitchslap the Dr into oblivion ... If River were the Hand she wouldn't want to tip anyone off. Just because you can energize something doesn't mean you have to do so.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:05 a.m. CST

    She would be more likely to be Nemesis than the Hand of Omega

    by HornOrSilk

    Of course, she is neither, she is her own thing.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:06 a.m. CST

    Something else I've wondered -- the flesh

    by HornOrSilk

    Could the Master somehow be involved with its creation? Is there a way the flesh can be used to explain his re-emergence?

  • May 30, 2011, 4:07 a.m. CST

    And I still feel that River Song post Silence in the Library

    by HornOrSilk

    Will show up to surprise us all.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:09 a.m. CST

    What if River Song -- meeting with herself from the past

    by HornOrSilk

    Is a part of what she needs to be the weapon she is intended to be? After all, it sounds as if she has lived through what we will soon see, which is why she can tell the Doctor that he is going to find out who she is. So, will there be two Rivers? Would whatever she is, when she meets herself, create an effect the big bad wants to be released?

  • May 30, 2011, 4:25 a.m. CST

    or what if river song is...

    by emeraldboy

    the big bad.....and that we have been looking at the omega all along....

  • May 30, 2011, 4:29 a.m. CST

    for the master they would have to hire a new...

    by emeraldboy

    actor to replace john simm. and the dr defeated him and his master race.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:33 a.m. CST

    unless in a brilliant piece of covert casting that nobody...

    by emeraldboy

    saw coming, david tennant returns to dr who, only this time he is the bad guy......it could have been a piece of bs but I did see on youtube some spoiler who claimed to have spotted tennant hanging around the dr who set....could be someone taking the piss. you just dont know.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:37 a.m. CST

    emeraldboy

    by HornOrSilk

    No, I am pointing out, that how the Master was brought back to life at "The End of Time" might itself have involved the flesh. It might be the foundation for its creation. It also would connect it even more to the Time Lords.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:38 a.m. CST

    I am not saying the Master is coming back but how he came back

    by HornOrSilk

    Could be connected to the flesh. Ok?

  • May 30, 2011, 4:39 a.m. CST

    Theory on who the astronaut is

    by karmo

    I think the astronaut who shot the Doctor must be River in some form, possibly as a child. The reason I believe this is because as the astronaut was walking back into the lake after shooting the Doctor, River shoots at it but nothing happens, and she says something like "Of course not". My theory is that it would be impossible for River to kill the past version of herself because that would cause a paradox, that is, it would be impossible to kill a past version of herself because if she were able to do so, then she would never exist to kill the past version of herself. Why she didn't immediately recognize the setting and what was about to happen (since it would be a memory for her), I can't say. Perhaps it was some sort of post hypnotic suggestion from the Silents. Perhaps she was told the doctor was evil and out to get her. The child did say that "the space man was coming to get her" or something like that. Most of us assumed she was referring to the Silents, but maybe the space man she was referring to is actually the Doctor. Just some things to think about. That's why I love this show so much, it's one great mystery that really causes you to analyze every little clue.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:46 a.m. CST

    Tennant is NOT coming back. Seriously.

    by V'Shael

    Despite a million bullshit Youtube videos showing the same photo of the Director Euros Lyn (who doesn't even really look like Tennant at all, by the way) and despite being told over and over again that it's Euros Lyn... the hit-happy fucking cunts won't take down or relabel their "PROOF THAT TENNANT IS COMING BACK" pieces of shit videos... We get it. You liked Tennant. You loved him and had a crush on him and he's your doctor and everything else. He's dead and he's not coming back. Now kindly fuck off with your good self. :)

  • May 30, 2011, 4:53 a.m. CST

    Off topic - The Coming of the Terraphiles.

    by V'Shael

    Has anyone read this Michael Moorcock book? I'm really struggling to get into it. It just doesn't seem like Doctor Who at all. And the mans ego is borderline limitless.... having the Doctor refer to a Sexton Blake book as being the greatest poem in human history? And oh gee, who writes Sexton Blake books? Michael fucking Moorcock? Is this worth continuing with? Because right now it reads like the ego driven rantings of a man who believes his own hype, grafting the doctor onto a sci fi novel he couldn't otherwise sell.

  • May 30, 2011, 5:44 a.m. CST

    Rory the Roman

    by Blue Bow Tie

    In the trailer, he's wearing a lapel pin. Is it the same symbol Omega like symbol or something else? I don't think he had a lapel before...

  • May 30, 2011, 6:20 a.m. CST

    V'Shael

    by 2LeggedFreak

    I've read the Coming of the Terraphiles. Typical Moorcock and I've read pretty much everything he's written. I enjoyed it but I do agree its hard work--if you've read any of his Dancers at the End of time books then you'd be "in the mood" for this kind of thing. Oh and on historic debates pre-internet--you'd probably have to go to a convention to hear some of the nuttier theories and arguments. I went to a fantasy film convention years back where a fight broke out between two dissenting factions. The argument --" Which was the scariest hairy monster , King Kong or Big Foot from the Six Million Dollar Man" People came to blows !!

  • May 30, 2011, 6:49 a.m. CST

    River regenerates

    by CartoonScott

    Maybe River regenerates after the Tennant Doctor left her in the library?

  • May 30, 2011, 6:55 a.m. CST

    *spoilers*

    by Seph_J

    well, cyber-spoilers to be precise.... http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac301/lbotez/CybermanConversionChamber.png

  • May 30, 2011, 7 a.m. CST

    @2leggedfreak - Thanks, but I haven't read any Moorcock

    by V'Shael

    before, and based on this, I doubt he's my cup of tea at all. What do you reckon a safe jumping off point would be? 100 pages? If I haven't been drawn in by then, it's worth chucking it in?

  • May 30, 2011, 7:01 a.m. CST

    River

    by TheFerretLives

    I don't believe River's secret will be her being bad, or at least not sorted out so that she is good in the end because the future doc seemed happy to see her and they compared diaries like a couple of girlies at a pajama party. So unless he was totally acting then I assume he gets over it. There are also hints that there will be future adventures with River up until she's young when she first meets him (unless we've already seen her meet him of course), so I guess they get over it. F

  • May 30, 2011, 7:04 a.m. CST

    theferretlives

    by HornOrSilk

    While I do believe she will end up good, I do think there is a period she was used for that which wasn't good. However, remember. She lies. We know what she claims about the future Doctor. But what if it didn't happen?

  • May 30, 2011, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Moorcock...

    by ClayG

    V'shael...whether you do or don't like The Coming of the Terraphiles, Michael Moorcock is a living legend of science fiction and fantasy who wouldn't have ANY trouble selling ANY novel, whether it was or wasn't tied to "Doctor Who." Like him or not, that's the case. Next you'll be saying there's some novel or other that Stephen King wouldn't be able to publish....

  • May 30, 2011, 7:50 a.m. CST

    V'shael: Sexton Blake, just FYI.

    by ClayG

    And V'shael...before you rant and troll about an author like Moorcock, you might want your facts straight. Sexton Blake is not a Michael Moorcock creation, making your 'ego' charges a bit baseless--at least with this evidence. You see, there's this thing called reading... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexton_Blake Check that out.

  • May 30, 2011, 7:53 a.m. CST

    Stephen King never finished "The Plant" as I recall

    by V'Shael

    because not enough people were willing to pay him. But that's beside the point. I'm aware of Moorcocks reputation. Even the hardcover has a big Gaiman quote on it "My debt to Michael Moorcock is unrepayable" High praise. But I still stand by my original assessment, that that is what it *reads* like, apart 30 pages in.

  • May 30, 2011, 8:07 a.m. CST

    "The Plant", etc.

    by ClayG

    You're right about "The Plant", but that was an experiment-in-progress, not a finished work. My guess is King got bored with that story, and used the fact that people were getting likewise bored with it (and hence unwilling to pay his e-book prices) as an excuse to stop writing it. He didn't quit writing the Dark Tower series, even though I suspect he imagined some people weren't going to like the ending of book seven. My real point was to make fun of you about the assertion that Moorcock created Sexton Blake, something you could easily have checked up on :P In my experience with the Doctor, it's very like him to assert that something obscure like that is a towering cultural landmark ;) So I thought that was well-played on Moorcock's part.

  • May 30, 2011, 8:34 a.m. CST

    I never said he created Sexton Blake!

    by V'Shael

    Come on, if you want to have a go at me for not liking Moorcock, fair enough, but I do know Sexton Blake was around LONG before Moorcock was born. My comment was about the fact that Moorcock writes Sexton Blake novels. If you're going to have a go at me, at least stick to the areas where I am definitely talking through my arse. No need to go making stuff up.

  • May 30, 2011, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Spoiler which is not really a spoiler.

    by V'Shael

    It's come to my attention that some people are claiming that Amy has a baby next week, called "Miranda". This appears to be a joke that has gone over some peoples heads. Miranda Pond is a character on Law & Order Special Victim's Unit. And she's played by Alex Kingston.

  • May 30, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Michael Moorcock put me in a12-year depression

    by Perigee

    Never read the Elric series as an impressionable teenager... ~Sigh~ Still, he was a heck of a good writer back in the day. Just sorely in need of a good anti-depressant.

  • May 30, 2011, 9:21 a.m. CST

    doctortom

    by Chain

    "That wasn't Amy's baby we saw in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon. It was a ganger of Amy's baby. It needed the special life support in the space suit to stabilize it." What if Amy's baby is a ganger/human/timelord hybrid? What if Amy was kidnapped. Her captor (a timelord) had her inseminated by a ganger and was planning to use it as a receptacle for his DNA? The reason being he couldn't escape from wherever he was or he wanted to cheat the limit on regens. or maybe all they (his servants/worshippers) had was his DNA? They had planned on programming baby ganger with his DNA via remote transmission much the same as Amy was controlling her ganger. but the Doctor had figured out the plan. He deciphered their signal encryption by analyzing the signal Amy was being controlled by and interrupted it at the correct time and also by giving the sonic to DoppleDoc (what he told him when he threw him the sonic is a big clue here) it allowed him to transmit his DNA into Amy's babyganger instead.

  • May 30, 2011, 10:02 a.m. CST

    v'shael ... of course it's not Tennant...

    by Kelvington

    don't be silly... it's Paul McGann! You'll see by the end of the series! People will even start betting on it. And regardless of how many time you say it's not Tennant, people will hold out hope that it is. And no amount of proof will be enough. So remember, it's not Tennant, it's Paul McGann playing Omega, with Rani's Hand in Amy's TARDIS house, with the Valeyard helping him... WE ALL KNOW IT! LOL

  • May 30, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Kelv

    by Seph_J

    grrrr

  • May 30, 2011, 10:11 a.m. CST

    I just want to see one scene...

    by Kelvington

    Some one grabs River's diary early in the episode, maybe Rory and during the episode he's reading it. At the end River and the Doctor are getting into the TARDIS and Rory comes running up and says wait!!! While River is pulling him into the TARDIS... Wait... it's not a diary... it's a cookbook! To Serve Who... It's a cookbook!! It's recipes on how to cook timelords!! The TARDIS doors slam and we see a close up on River with a shit eating grin on her face and the TARDIS fades out... and we see a card that comes on the screen that says.. Doctor Who Will Return In The Fall In Terror at 10,000 Feet! LOL

  • May 30, 2011, 10:33 a.m. CST

    "Mr Doctor, Mr Doctor, it is the meal time"

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 10:34 a.m. CST

    V'shael - various and sundry issues you raised up

    by DoctorTom

    As to how Doctor Who fandom was in the "old days" - no, for the most part they didn't talk about bringing companions back except for the rumors that JNT put out that they were going to bring back a companion. It was rumored to be Sarah Jane or Leela at several points. This almost actually happened in the last season of Tom Baker, when the rumor was that the High Council of Time Lords wanted to assassinate the Doctor for some reason. This would have been one of the Christopher Priest stories that ended up not being made. I think the Sarah Jane reference turned out to be for the 1 episode Sarah and K-9 story that JNT made. <br> <br> But yes, there were the equivalent of rabid fanboy arguments back then. All you needed to do was read an issue of Doctor Who Bulletin and see them piling on JNT about how he was ruining the show and things were much better back with Hinchliffe and Holmes (they started this during the Colin Baker days and kept it up until the magazine morphed into DreamWatch). They were even thinking of suing the BBC over the hiatus between Colin Baker's seasons. <br> <br> As to the Moorcock novel, if it isn't for you, don't bother trying to wade through it any more. One thing you might consider though is that it is also available as an audiobook. You might find it easier going if you listen to it. <br> <br> If you wanted to try another Moorcock novel to see if you liked him in something else (but I suspect you won't), try The Warhound and the World's Pain. It's set just after the 30 Years War, and Lucifer asks the main character to find the Holy Grail so that he can have forgiveness from God. Most people would suggest Elric, you might prefer something not as sprawling as that. <br> <br> As for "Miranda", it could be a joke doing double duty. As well as the Alex Kingston character in L&O:SVU, Miranda was also the name of the Doctor's adopted daughter in one of BBC's 8th Doctor novels (Father Time by Lance Parkin). (I'll admit, though, that the Alex Kingston character was most likely the primary source for the reference. It's just nice when you can get multiple layers of meaning into the reference.) <br> <br> As for your reference to Tennant not coming back, I think the episode this week pretty much summed up production's general attitude on that, based on the 11th Doctor's comments after hearing Tennant's voice. That said, I'm sure he'll be back - for a show or special for the 50th anniversary. I think Moffatt would like to continue the Three Doctors/Five Doctors tradition in that case. I don't see him being back for anything else in the series, though.

  • May 30, 2011, 10:46 a.m. CST

    chain - gangerbabies (spoilers for those who haven't seen Ep 6)

    by DoctorTom

    Ganger/human/Time Lord hybrid might be taking it a step too far, but maybe not. If you have the ganger part in there, maybe it's a ganger Time Lord. I was about to say that the only Time Lord DNA that would be available would be the puddle of DoppleDoctor (assuming it didn't regenerate soon after), but there would be a possible way that they could get Omega's DNA (which is also the Doctor's DNA). It would have required having the cracks in time so that Omega could get some of the DNA out to make a suitable host. The body Omega was in wasn't stable, so he'd want a new host body before he came out. Making a Time Lord suitable body out of Flesh might have been a way out. Omega didn't strike me as the type to want a female body, though. More importantly, this seems too complicated and "Inside Baseball" for Moffatt to follow that plan exactly. <br> <br> You have to ask, if it's Omega or someone like him, why go to the bother of having someone birth a child with some connection to the time/space vortex (if not an actual time lord) when it would be easier to project yourself into a ganger body directly? And if there's a reason for that, why go through all the shenanigans that they did? Would there be a simpler way?

  • May 30, 2011, 10:47 a.m. CST

    The Flesh

    by TheFerretLives

    Perhaps the Timelords, locked in the Time War, use the flesh to be able to operate outside in the universe? As we've seen Amy's ganger still worked when she was outside the universe in a bubble universe, unless that was an oversight in that episode because as we all know it wasn't meant to be in that series. Speaking of that fact I'm sure when I watched DWC for the Doctor's Wife Neil Gaiman said that changing series meant that some things change and he referred to Amy and Rory's bit in trapped in the Tardis and I'm sure he said Rory would've been by himself. Perhaps he just did a H Clintonesque mispeak or it was a slip of the tongue because he knows about the tail end of this series? F

  • May 30, 2011, 11:14 a.m. CST

    ferret

    by Seph_J

    he said the episode was originally going to be during the time when Rory was dead, between the Silurians and Pandorica... and Amy was originally on her own. If I remember correctly.

  • May 30, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Here's one of those emotional Stargate thingies...

    by Perigee

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yZ-Vre-8cE

  • May 30, 2011, 11:21 a.m. CST

    seph_j

    by TheFerretLives

    senility catching up with me then...

  • May 30, 2011, 11:33 a.m. CST

    @theferretlives

    by DoctorTom

    I doubt that it's the Timelords still timelocked in the Time War. Moffatt seemed to be developing this (the ideas for the cracks in time, and most likely who was behind it) concurrently with the Specials. We know that Moffatt asked RTD to not use the Daleks because he wanted VotD to be their big relaunch, and having them show up yet again in The End of Time would have spoiled that somewhat. I suspect that Moffatt might have said the same things about the Time Lords involved in the Time War (at least the High Council and those on Gallifrey) so that it wouldn't spoil his plans as much. <br> <br> Besides, it seemed like everything Rassilon was doing was spent in the last ditch effort to get outside the bubble in The End of Time. If they were the ones behind the cracks in time in order to use them to get out, they wouldn't have needed the Flesh, just the opposite. They pop out and enact the plan to turn themselves into incorporeal transcendental beings (which Doctor Who was doing aeons before SGU ever did, Diox) - the exact opposite of Flesh. Besides, ironically, after the End of Time bit it didn't seem like they'd have the time to unfurl some complex plan. They'd have been going at the same relative rate of time passing as the Doctor since the first episode of Season 5, so they'd all be Post Toasties by the time the plan got enacted.

  • May 30, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Oh, Merrick, for the hiatus -

    by DoctorTom

    and, by the way, many thanks for these wonderful talkbacks! It can't be emphasized enough. I'm looking forward to the conversations during the hiatus. <br> <br> For one week's topic, you might want to go with the theme "What was the first Doctor Who you watched, and what specifically hooked you on the show?" It will be interesting to see the differences between the different posters. It should be good for some old war stories from some of us. <br> Another topic might be what are some of the earliest Doctor Who novels that people read. The Target books vs. New Adventures vs. BBC 8th Doctor and Past Doctor adventures vs. the small BBC hardbacks they do now vs. "read? They actually publish things made of dead wood and inscribe words on them?" dichotomy should be interesting also. <br> <br> To other people, please don't make the comments now about these, let's wait and have something to savor talking about during the mid-season hiatus.

  • May 30, 2011, 11:40 a.m. CST

    Those who know spoilers will appreciate this:

    by Perigee

    Aaand, here's our motivation for the second half. Diox is Hitler. http://www.youtube.com/user/Expungor#p/a/u/0/IKIrg7OF_VE

  • May 30, 2011, 11:46 a.m. CST

    seph_j... you are correct...

    by Kelvington

    about the Amy being alone in the TARDIS in the NG episode. You got one right... I'm writing this date down. LOL SPOILER TALK - Ganger/Timelord/Hybrid... yea, that's a step to far for even me. I think it's a bit much. This might have been asked before, but I don't remember reading it here. One question though, if Amy was pregnant when they kidnapped her, and then made a Famy (still going to use that) wouldn't the Famy be pregnant as well? And since Amy and her baby were plugged into the Ganger, wouldn't the baby have grown inside her? They said their cells multiply, which is kinda the definition of a growing kid. And I still have questions about the Big Bang 2 but I'll save them for mid-summer when we have less to talk about.

  • May 30, 2011, 12:11 p.m. CST

    Kelv - and just for that cheeky remark there...

    by Seph_J

    ...I'm going to draw attention to your remark earlier on where you said that CYBERDYNE created the Cybermen. We can all LOL in unison at that one. ;)

  • Amy is preggers, not GAmy. Which is why the Doctor couldnt get a fix on the pregnancy. However, she feels like, ah crap, the the chick with the blood clot. There's a link, but only one is real. However, being in thr TARDIS made the gangers stable. I wonder if that was an instant thing or the Doctor did it for them? The trailer for next week (and prequel) made it seem like it was the Doctors child. Odd.

  • May 30, 2011, 12:28 p.m. CST

    We can't assume we know how Famy flesh would react.

    by V'Shael

    It's a future version of the Flesh after all. Maybe Amy could be pregnant, and Flesh could be told to only mimic HER dna, and not the babies, for example.

  • May 30, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    If Amy was cloned while she was Pregnant

    by ToughGuyRizzo

    Then she didn't show any signs of it in "The Almost People." (Physically) Besides, She was kidnapped mainly because she was pregnant, right? So, if Pond was cloned while she was pregnant, her Ganger didn't show any signs of reproducing. What's cool tho is the dad ganger can now pound out his wife and nut insider her all the time and probably not get her pregnant ever again!

  • May 30, 2011, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Old Who...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...I think SM and RTD both have a good deal of time for classic Who monsters -certainly "The Pandorica Opens" name checked nearly every race including Draconians! I'm not convinced that there is a policy to only introduce new villains once we've had a foreshadow. That certainly was the case in season 1, with the "Bad Wolf" being levered into every episode. This leads on to Omega -logically if the major powers of the Universe are stuck in a Timelock which prevents them form continuing to exist, then there are only two possibilities to end the feedback loop: one) Existence annihilation (tried by the Daleks) or two) The Universal Reset Button(tm) (implemented unwittingly by Amy). Now, production mistakes aside ("Silence will fall" voice in the TARDIS sounding nothing like the Silents, ahem) it is very likely there is a masterplan behind the events of season 5 & 6 -evidence includes a makeshift TARDIS (surely Timelord in origin), the little girl who regenerates (even if her legs don't), Amy being kidnapped / Ganger-me-Amy, River Song, the Astro-suit 'womb' -suggesting the little girl is in incubus still at the point we see her... possibly leading to her first regeneration, the euthanasia of the Doctor, the Alliance itself and the Pandorica -not so much a trap, but the URB required to break the status quo. Clearly people are getting played. I strongly suspect the player is Omega. I look forward to being proven wrong over the coming six months! Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • May 30, 2011, 2:11 p.m. CST

    "we definitely could have done without Davros."

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    Why? They did one hell of a job with him ... Personally I think it was RTD's most successful attempt at a class villain. Daleks handle themselves but he totally messed up the Cybermen and the Master.

  • May 30, 2011, 2:13 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by MoffatBabies

    Hey! I never got the chance to say thanks for the pictures. They were so geekily magnificent!! And that thing Sly does with his mouth? I can totally do that. Not many can. I consider that to be the second best of my 2 stupid human tricks. The other is to make a tremendously loud noise with my toes, so loud it appears impossible that it's coming from my shoe. Don't ask. ( I used to do it to make it seem like the person in front of me in class had farted to great comedic effect) And the one from 93? You were the meat in a doctor sandwich!! So cool.

  • May 30, 2011, 2:14 p.m. CST

    A Good Man Goes To War... SPOILERS !!!

    by dj_bollocks

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/tubetalk/a321823/doctor-who-a-good-man-goes-to-war-in-pictures.html A Silurian... A Sontaran... and a proper Cyberman & Controller....

  • May 30, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    seph_j .. you are right again!! And I was wrong!!

    by Kelvington

    Holy crap... twice in one day... I would play the lottery. Don't know where I got that from. It was Cybus Industries, who created the alternate reality Cybermen, run by one of the guys who now stars in "The Old Guys". See I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong! Feel free to point out anytime I'm wrong... of course it could be a full time job!

  • May 30, 2011, 2:27 p.m. CST

    ummphoo Thank you for ACTUALLY READING Docbacks...

    by Kelvington

    Even I don't read every single one, but you made some nice call backs there, and I for one thank you! (i.e. The voice thing, and regenerating legs) OK, you are starting to make some sense here with this whole Omega thing. I guess it's possible. I for one will still be shocked if it is him, but you are swinging for the fences with some good logic there, so I'll accept there's a bigger bad for the time being. I wonder if Omega will sound like Paul McGann? YEA, I'm never letting go of that until I get my fiver and Chicago has the playset! v'shael - my friend thank you for using Famy! LOL toughguyrizzo - Good point about not replicating everything! I think we still have a lot to learn about the Flesh. They almost seem like the enemy from "The Long Game" somebody planted into time to screw things up.

  • May 30, 2011, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Spoilers by dj_bollocks

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Holy crap--you know I was a bit meh about all the Doctors enemies turning up ..AGAIN...but from the photos you linked its not entirely clear whose on whose side.

  • May 30, 2011, 2:36 p.m. CST

    2leggedfreak

    by HornOrSilk

    It's one of the reasons why I think this might be the formation of the alliance. After all, they seemed to know who and what River was at the end of the season last year. So it seems that for the alliance, as with River, the Doctor is meeting them in reverse. And I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't become something which he himself makes-- in a McCoy like masterplan

  • May 30, 2011, 2:40 p.m. CST

    perigee

    by MoffatBabies

    I LOL'd. That was funny. Still makes me sad though, even if the big D is annoying. How anyone could LOVE and ADORE the jokey, cheap SG and hate SGU... beyond me.

  • May 30, 2011, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Doesn't that look less like an Omega and more like a lollipop?

    by HornOrSilk

    Proof it's been the Kandyman all along!

  • May 30, 2011, 2:48 p.m. CST

    The Big Bad Alliance Revealed

    by HornOrSilk

    That is indeed a lollipop, showing the Kandyman is involved. But we must also look and see that there is a profit to be made with all of this. Therefore, Sil is involved. And miners? Who else faced miners? Mutant maggots.The mutant maggots are back!

  • May 30, 2011, 3:03 p.m. CST

    I want to see a return of the Zygons.

    by Cap'n Jack

  • May 30, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Just when you thought it was safe to visit Loch Ness....

    by HornOrSilk

    The Return of the Zygons. This time, it's monstrous.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    @Kelvington

    by lantern48

    Are you from Chicago? I am. And I'll bet you're a stinkin' Cubs fan. LOL

  • May 30, 2011, 3:30 p.m. CST

    You forgot some, hornorsilk

    by DoctorTom

    If there's a profit to be made, it won't just be Sil involved, the Usurians will also be involved (maybe they got the contract for moving the Silents away from the Earth). And the Daleks also used miners, both to dig out their original base in Destiny of the Daleks, and to hollow out the Earth. And if Daleks involved, their enemies the Movellans and the Mechanoids can't be far behind (though the Mechanoids won't be able to get through the doors). And if Rory the Roman is involved, there might be other Romans. And if Romans are involved, Emperor Nero can't be far behind. And if Nero is involved, other tyrants are involved, which means that the froggy Monarch, Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, Magnus Greel and Helen A must be involved. And if Helen A is involved, it brings us full circle to Kandyman. And if Kandyman is involved, then we know that, because of the short story that was published, his new friends, Count Grendel and the Androids of Tara. And if androids are involved, the Kraal must be involved. And if Kraal are involved, then we know that somebody's swiping from a Terry Nation script, and there will be a planet with aggressive plant life. And if there's aggressive plant life, there will be Krynoids. Also, if there's bubble universes involved, there must be Morgaine involved. (And most likely a ginger haired Doctor, but we won't see him until the 50th anniversary). And if Morgaine's involved, the Excalibur is involved. And if Excalibur's involved,then King Arthur's involved, which means that we are going back to medieval England, which brings us back to the Norman Invasion in 1066. <br> <br> Which all just goes to show that this is all one big scheme by the Meddling Monk to muck about with time to see how far he could push things. "Bazookas for the Normans? Napolean having a B-52 bomber at the battle of Waterloo? Child's play! Oops, I created a few cracks in time? Well, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Er, except that this is one very large egg, and it will be very messy. Perhaps I should make a strategic withdrawal." Which only goes to show that the Meddling Monk is in league with House, whom he rescued, and went back to House's bubble universe after the Doctor left so that they could hide out until the Doctor sorted things out. <br> <br> <br> <br> Or perhaps not.

  • This match is for the Heavyweight Championship title. One pinfall only. The management reserves the right to substitute Kroll for one of the contenders should they become ill. Zygon Enterprises, Inc. disavows any connection to the Loch Ness sock puppet and assume no liability for any damage he may cause, even though they think he's a better Lock Ness Monster than the Borad.

  • May 30, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    You can't make an omegalet without breaking a few eggs!

    by lantern48

    LOL

  • David is back! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7g5Lol0WSo&feature=related

  • May 30, 2011, 4:17 p.m. CST

    lantern48 ... nope not from Chicago...

    by Kelvington

    The reason you always see me mention Chicago (a fine city by the way, been there many times, loved SCTV, and Wrigley field, not a sports fan though) is because... When the Doctor's Wife aired there was a great deal of excitement about the voice of the timelord requesting help. Many thought it was Paul McGann, which would make no sense from a story point of view, but might make a few fans happy. Now as an video editor and voice guy, I listened to it a few times and while the person who did the voice was from the same area (ie liverpool type accent) as McGann, it was by no means him. I've listened to him on all the Big Finish stuff, plus I just have an ear for it. That said, paineywoo posted the following... ------------------------------------------------- Oh yeah... by paineywoo And it WAS Paul McGann coming out of the Ood's voice box. No doubt. I'll bet you my unopened Tardis Playset :) ------------------------------------------------ frozen01 took the bet before I could, but I had bet people a fiver it was NOT McGann, and so frozen01 who lives in Chicago has stated that when he gets the playset, he will out of his own generosity send me a fiver because those people I bet will never admit they lost. Even though, I went so far as to ask the editor of DWM, whom is a good friend with SM, was that McGann. He politely and kindly responded - TomSpilsbury @Kelvington Paul McGann? Er, no. So until frozen01 gets his playset, I won't get my fiver, and the people who were so positive it was McGann are not willing to give up on this, they want to hear if from SM himself, or wait until it plays out by the end of the series (Christmas) we will never have this settled in their minds. Which is my I end most of my posts with some variant of - It was Paul McGann with the Rani, in Amy's TARDIS house, using the Hand of Omega and the Valeyard with the Kandyman doing whatever it is we are talking about. LOL Because it seems most of those are wrong as well. Long explanation for a short inside joke. :)

  • May 30, 2011, 4:45 p.m. CST

    no Kelv

    by Seph_J

    you bet ME a fiver, which I didn't sink low enough to respond to. And now it keeps you awake at night. Just like the thought that someone from classic who might make an apperance in new who, PERIsh the thought! (ahem Peter Davison). You need to get over all that stuff Kelv, you really do.

  • May 30, 2011, 4:59 p.m. CST

    kelvington

    by HornOrSilk

    And we all know SM joked about bringing back the Kandyman.

  • May 30, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Poor Rory the Redshirt...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...is surely about to suffer *again* next week . I feel for the guy. First off he is given a dodgy ponytail, turned to ash, sucked into a crack (it happens to the best of us) erased from history and then he's turned into a walking toy soldier, shoots Amy with his incredibly dangerous missing digits, then gets turned human JUST as his missus turns living doll (oh, the irony) and gets knocked up with a Timelord! Rory must have the worst luck of ANY assistant. Even our Adric had a choice in the matter and died a hero taking out those pesky dinosaurs and kick-starting the rise of the planet of the Humans! I suspect this "Good man" will be Rory, and since River talks about the "best man she has known" getting chopped the omens are not good. In memoriam: Rory Williams / Roman Rory 2010(several entries)-2011. Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • May 30, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    seph_j... I'll get my fiver... trust me I will...

    by Kelvington

    I have no doubt that frozen01 will send me a fiver once he gets his playset. Others should pay up, but I'll get a fiver, or I'll become the librarian from Psychoville! LOL And for the record I love the idea of bringing back old Who characters. No one loved Sarah Jane more than me when she showed up! Just give me my Lala Ward and I'll die happy!

  • May 30, 2011, 5:35 p.m. CST

    Kelvington......................

    by shibleybc

    I'm afraid that i must point out another continuity error! Frozen01 is most definitely a "Her" not a "his"

  • May 30, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    damn Kelv

    by Seph_J

    ...I wasn't going to point that one out either, but... what the hell. It amused me the fact that you are harassing a lovely lady for money.... Mate, thats a massive number of embarassing mistakes today...what's going on?!

  • May 30, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    And as for Romana....

    by shibleybc

    I completly agree :)

  • May 30, 2011, 6:16 p.m. CST

    Alan Moore

    by stv

    ...wrote some good time war stories (the Special Executive) for Doctor Who Monthly well as Abslom Daak-dalek killer...stories that really expanded on the TV show...so as these were not "beneath him" back then...and budgets and writing have been elevated right now, these recent labyrinthine stories seem to be right up his alley. He is not averse to revisiting and deconstructing classic literary characters (Black Dossier and other League of Extraordinary Gentlemen stories) so if Gaiman (Moore-lite) can be persuaded....could he be enticed to have a bash? Or is the Beeb as bad as Hollywood in his eyes? He's done Bond, Dan Dare...why not the Doctor?

  • May 30, 2011, 6:22 p.m. CST

    shibleybc ... and how would I know the sex of...

    by Kelvington

    anyone here? I don't assume, I just use HE, because it's easier and let's be honest, most people who enjoy sci-fi are penis holders (i.e. men). I don't anyone outside of here... except for one person. And I can't remember what their name is here. Names not my thing, so yea, I used HE instead of she! Yup that's me all over, not knowing the sex of anonymous people! I'm not harassing frozen01, "she" was just kind enough to say, she would send me a fiver when she gets the playset, just out of kindness. I bow down to that kind of kindness. She and I had no bet what so ever. She was just doing it to be nice. But it was paineywoo whom he/she made the bet, and frozen01 took it before me. Frozen01 and I are on the same side here. She gets her playset, then I get a fiver because I was the one who got the editor (and friend of SM) to admit it wasn't McGann, she was doing it just because she's nice! I think my words were very clear, get your fucking facts straight before you say I'm harassing someone. As for the rest of you tone deaf people who SWORE it was Paul McGann, you are a 100% wrong! I fucking analyze and edit audio and video for a living! I can hear the difference. And the longer you wait to either pay up or admit you were wrong, the louder I will get at mocking you! The people who say it was Paul McGann either have no ability to discern voices, which is not a crime, or you are Donald Trump wannabes, and you are letting your own ego get in the way of the facts. And if I'm wrong, and somehow it does turn out to be him. I will pay up quickly and publicly, I will in all CAPS say I was wrong. As I have many times before! Good Day!... I said good day!

  • and I also get my Scarlets confused...Johansen, O'Hara and Captain

  • May 30, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Kelv

    by Seph_J

    **As for the rest of you tone deaf people who SWORE it was Paul McGann, you are a 100% wrong! I fucking analyze and edit audio and video for a living! I can hear the difference. And the longer you wait to either pay up or admit you were wrong, the louder I will get at mocking you! The people who say it was Paul McGann either have no ability to discern voices, which is not a crime, or you are Donald Trump wannabes, and you are letting your own ego get in the way of the facts.** Seriously, mate, all jokes aside. Let it go.

  • looks like I'm going to have to do this on my own.....

  • May 30, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    HAVE

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    I

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    THAT

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:42 p.m. CST

    RIGHT?

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:43 p.m. CST

    YOU SEE, SOME THINGS COULD BE BETTER WITH THE DALEKS...

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:44 p.m. CST

    BUT THE FINAL RESPONSIBILITY IS MINE, AND MINE ALONE.

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    KILL

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    THAT

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    CHILD?

    by Seph_J

  • May 30, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    DO I HAVE TH