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'The Rebel Flesh' Is On The Move!! READER REACTION To This Weekend's DOCTOR WHO!!



Colin Baker (the 6th Doctor) and Nicola Bryant (who appeared as his companion Peri Brown) circa 1984. 

Image contributed by The Freakshowmonkey.



Merrick here...

Saturday brings us "The Rebel Flesh" - the fifth installment of DOCTOR WHO Season/Series Six.  This episode finds The Doctor and Company grappling with Solar Tsunamis, Dusty Springfield music, and Gangers - constructs evoking AVATAR, BLADE RUNNER, FRANKENSTEIN, and Odo from DEEP SPACE NINE.  And, if you've seen any Science Fiction or DOCTOR WHO at all, you already know that any scenario combining AVATAR, BLADE RUNNER, FRANKENSTEIN, and Odo can't possibly remain trouble-free for very long.

Last week's "Doctor's Wife" may prove a tough act to follow for many, and "Rebel Flesh" (I love that title) does take a while to fully engage.  It should be noted, however, that this is the first episode of a two part story. And, even though its whole sports a decidedly leisurely pace when compared to previous Season/Series Six episodes, TRF's final moments are bound to raise a few eyebrows - and quickly launch regular viewers into a speculatory frenzy.

"The Rebel Flesh" is scripted by Matthew Graham (a creator of LIFE ON MARS - he wrote the Tennant-era, Olympic flavored DW episode "Fear Her" as well) and directed by Julian Simpson (a helmer on MI-5).  The tale moves us precariously close to the dreaded mid-Season/Series break that begins after "A Good Man Goes To War" - aka Episode Seven - two weeks from now. 

"The Rebel Flesh" premieres the evening of Saturday May 21 at 9/8c on BBC AMERICA here in The States. 



We're looking forward to WHOvians near and far conversing about  all things WHO via the Talkback below.  

Accordingly, I'd expect a significant amount of  "Rebel Flesh" SPOILAGE to start rolling in 'round late morning/early afternoon  U.S. time (Saturday May 21) -  which is natural as the episode will broadcast in the U.K. a number of hours before it appears here in the U.S. on BBC America.  

So, as far as this Talkback goes...

Readers from U.S. and other territories?  If you wanna stay virginal  regarding "Rebel Flesh" until you've seen it for may wish to tread very carefully herein after mid-morning U.S. time Saturday May 21, as SPOILERS may well be afoot and we won't be doing anything to discourage them after it hits in the U.K.

Talkbacks dedicated to Readers' Reactions towards the episode are now open for business below.

Have fun and enjoy the show...


--- follow Merrick on Twitter ! ---



coming next week:

"The Almost People"

(and, no, I don't think it's about AICN staff)



See DOCTOR WHO  Season/Series Six Episode 1  - "The Impossible Astronaut"  - in HD HERE and standard def HERE.  

See "Day of The Moon" - the second installment of the season premiere linked above - in HD HERE and standard def HERE.  

Episode 3 - "The Curse Of The Black Spot" - can be found in HD HERE or standard def HERE.

Episode 4 - "The Doctor's Wife"  - is available HERE in HD, while standard def is availabe HERE

Episode 5 - "The Rebel Flesh" - can be seen HERE in HD, or viewed in standard def HERE




Readers Talkback
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  • May 20, 2011, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Here we go again!

    by Warren Howarth

    Lets see what this weeks ep throws into the mix. Hope the Rapture thing isn't true, this a two parter!

  • May 20, 2011, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Maybe I'll participate this time in the Docbacks, btw the way...

    by Red43jes

    Nicola, is it just me, or am I the only one wanting to see nudes? Just sayin...

  • May 20, 2011, 11:38 a.m. CST



    If this two-parter fails then the series as whole so far will have been disappointing.

  • May 20, 2011, 11:42 a.m. CST

    Sorry, can't do the Rapture Saturday, Doctor Who's on

    by DoctorTom

    I'm glad to see Marshall Lancaster has a part in this story - I liked his work in Life on Mars/ Ashes to Ashes. Did Matthew Graham write the part for him in this story, or was it because of Beth Willis' previous connection with Ashes to Ashes knowing him and it was coincidental that it was a Matthew Graham script?

  • May 20, 2011, 11:47 a.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    I wouldn't say that. The only episode that's been dissapointing so far has been the pirate episode (and not everyone was disappointed by it - I think that V'Shael and I were the two most disappointed by the sloppy plot structure). It could have used another edit or two. <br> The Doctor's Wife was fantastic. It's a shame it got pushed back one episode; it could have broken the Curse of the Disappointing Third Episode in the Season that people has associated with nu-Who.

  • For some reason, as I was reading the issue I kept feeling that I was having flashbacks to Castravalva.

  • May 20, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST

    All I want is to be first on a Docback!!!


    Fuck everyone who beat me posting here for yet another week. Fuck you devilgoblins. Fuck you red43jes. Fuck you ginge_muppet. Fuck you doctor tom. NEXT TIME I SHALL BE QUICKER THAN ALL OF YOU!

  • May 20, 2011, 12:34 p.m. CST

    The tallest building in all of time and space...

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS obviously still shorter than ginge_muppet's standards for a Doctor Who episode.

  • May 20, 2011, 12:36 p.m. CST

    "The Rebel Flesh"? Was it written by David Cronenberg?

    by Royston Lodge

  • May 20, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker

    by donkey_lasher

    Jesus, that was 1984!? I was 8. I remember seeing this "new" Doctor in the Radio Times and hating his clothes.

  • May 20, 2011, 12:45 p.m. CST

    A David Chronenberg DW episode would be AWESOME


  • May 20, 2011, 12:46 p.m. CST



    1 outstanding episode out of 6 would be disappointing. But obviously thats based on my luke-warm enjoyment of the first two episodes, I'm fully aware most enjoyed them more than I did.

  • May 20, 2011, 1:14 p.m. CST



    For me, personally, this season is so-far shaping up to be superior to the previous one. By this point, we'd had the excellent Eleventh Hour, the mediocre Beast Below, the rancid Victory Of The Daleks and the awesome Time Of Angels. As of now, we've had the excellent double-whammy of Impossible Astronaut and Day Of The Moon, the entertaining but average Curse Of The Black Spot and the amazing Doctor's Wife. This season has been as close to disappointing as I am to fucking Karen Gillan.

  • Never say never mate. And if you do ... take pictures.

  • May 20, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Ah, Nicola Bryant....

    by thecomedian

    I'd love to stick my Tardis in her Time Vortex...

  • May 20, 2011, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker is inches from the promised land.

    by Christopher Bynum

  • May 20, 2011, 2:19 p.m. CST

    The Curse of the Disappointing Third Episode

    by LordBond

    I have to disagree. I thought The Unquiet Dead (Gelf & Dickens) and Gridlock (Brannigan & Macra) were pretty good. In two minds about Planet of the Ood. It did have Captain Darling in it. Personally I think the Matt Smith era is far superior to that of Tennant. There were some absolute stinkers back then. Moffat would never have given us Love & Monsters. This series is shaping up to be the best so far.

  • May 20, 2011, 2:24 p.m. CST

    There's a perception filter on this talkback


    I see my comment above and then I see ginge_muppet's response below. I KNOW there's something in between but my eyes don't want to go there. It's like walking into a room and seeing two attractive women standing on either side of an obese, old crone. It's the only way I can explain it.

  • May 20, 2011, 2:40 p.m. CST

    Bad Season!?!??!

    by ThomasFlynn

    I mean sure, the Pirate Episode was "yo ho ho hum" (See what I did there?) But come on...the opener was solid, the Doctor's Wife was equally good. I'm not sure what exactly some of you are looking for

  • May 20, 2011, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Waning enthusiasm.

    by timesfool

    This season has felt a little flat so far. I keep hoping each episode is going to actually build on something, but hasn't happened yet. Really feels muddled and out of sorts, to me. No coherence from one thing to the next. Like ideas being tacked on without any care for context. There's something underneath but it feels forced and repetitive and it's taking an awfully long time to get to it. Hope I care to see it through, but I'm at a 'meh' stage right now.

  • May 20, 2011, 2:56 p.m. CST



    He usually has at least 10 posts by now! God, mother must be facebooking or something! anyways-not that excited looking at tomorrows episode, stylistically it is just more of the same-gloomy, dark nightmare blah blah blah-I find myself pining for a bright shiny spacecraft adventure (the bridge of the spacecraft in the Christmas story looked great.) OK, the budget is a zillion compared to the 80's, but at least we some fun sci-fi stories with Daleks, Cybermen etc blasting through hulls to those pesky humanoids! This season needs a bit of good ol fashioned pizzazz!

  • May 20, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    "The Rebel Wet Puckering Orifices" by David Cronenberg

    by tangcameo

    ya that would sound about right for Cronenberg

  • May 20, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    I need to know about this disappointment...

    by Perigee

    What exactly is your local television schedule comprised of that makes this season's DW episodes so disappointing? Could you please list the shows you are currently watching that have consistently pleased you for 4 episodes straight? I sincerely can't wait to hear this list. You'll change my viewing habits forever.

  • May 20, 2011, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Damn BBCAmerica and the horse it rode in on!

    by DoctorTom

    They're going to delay showing episodes 6 and 7 each by 1 week in order to avoid low viewership over Memorial Day weekend. WTF? Easter weekend's okay to start, but Memorial Day weekend's a no go? Even if they want to skip Memorial Day weekend, can't they show both episodes the week after, and just not show Graham Norton that night? <br> I thought they had realized that more people will actually watch the show on BBCA instead of torrenting the episode if it's shown on the same day. So now they turn around and delay it a week? Don't they trust their BBCA on demand where people can watch it, or the repeat of the episode the next week? You think they've learned, but then they revert to doing something like this.

  • May 20, 2011, 4:19 p.m. CST



    My personal disappointment stems from not overly enjoying the first two episodes ... Now ... because its aintitcool I will repeat, to avoid excess grief, 'this is just MY opinion, in no way do I pass this as fact. So when you add this to my dislike for the 3rd episode you reach my concern for the next two-parter. Last week was fantastic, loved it ... the sort of episode I dreamed about when Moff was given control ... I know we can't have perfection every week but a guy can dream. As for asking if any shows please me for 4 episodes in a row? ..... No. But Dr Who is the only show on TV I genuinely care for and love so I can't say it bothers me if anything else fails to deliver.

  • May 20, 2011, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Ginge... Rats.

    by Perigee

    I was hoping there was something even borderline interesting out there that I'd missed out on. I think I've ascended to Ubergeekdom over here - Whe Who isn't on, I'm playing 360. Nothing else seems to be worth the time anymore.

  • May 20, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    I don't know

    by frozen01

    I can't shake the feeling that this two-parter is gonna be comparable to the Silurian episodes. I can't explain why, have no idea where it's coming from... but it's there.

  • May 20, 2011, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Well... There's Game of Thrones...

    by frozen01

    except I still haven't really started watching it. Saw 10 minutes of the first episode and have been meaning to pick it back up. Damn procrastination.

  • May 20, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    ... for when you eventually get on here... Submitted your photo yet? :) I'm guessing even you will agree it couldn't possibly beat this week's offering above!

  • May 20, 2011, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Sci-Fi writers...

    by The_Mad_Groper

    Guys.. sometimes you folk are a bit harsh. When you look at the whole picture, Doctor Who has a pretty damn good batting average when it comes to episodes. It's like this in every sci-fi show (if not all genres). Just think of Star Trek, for every City on the Edge of Forever... you have to put up with a Spocks Brain! AND we're pretty blessed when it comes to "bad" episodes on Who... cause if Black Spot Curse is the worst we have to deal with... it beats the best out of SOME shows out there.... ~looks at the SG troll~ :P

  • It does, I totally agree ... I don't know, maybe I'm turning into one of those ultra critical dickheads that I used to dislike so much?

  • May 20, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Petition time

    by History101

    Some one get the ball rolling At least give us episodes 6&7 together on June 4th

  • May 20, 2011, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Evening All!

    by shibleybc

  • May 20, 2011, 5:52 p.m. CST

    so, a good man goes to war will be the

    by Seph_J

    moment when a Tardis disguised as a ricky old beach hut materialises and Paul McGann steps out....

  • May 20, 2011, 5:52 p.m. CST

    I'm probably going to regret this

    by Mister Vertue

    But if you're really not happy about missing your favourite Timelord on Memorial Day weekend (whatever *that* is - I could Google it but it's late and I'm tired) then you could always try emailing this gentleman devin.johnson@ Just don't tell him who sent you. If he can't help you directly, then I'm sure he'll know someone who can, especially if you all pester him enough. All I ask is that you be nice!

  • May 20, 2011, 5:54 p.m. CST

    man of vertue

    by Seph_J

    the BBC press office?

  • May 20, 2011, 6:05 p.m. CST

    man of vertue

    by frozen01

    It's apparently a holiday where everyone gets an extra day off of work, mows their lawn, does some gardening, and throws a barbeque.

  • May 20, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Memorial day ... whatever that is ...

    by veteran_of_mu

    You're saying that BBCAmerica doesn't know what a torrent is? If they delay showing these eps by a week they'll halve their audience. Who would wait for the TV when TPB is one google away?

  • May 20, 2011, 6:23 p.m. CST



    Who is your favorite Tintin character?

  • May 20, 2011, 6:32 p.m. CST


    by Stale Elvis

    When I was 11 years old I couldn't stand Peri or her fake accent. Now as an adult - GODDAMN!!! I want to do things to her that would smell.

  • ...Peri-winkle addiction.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:04 p.m. CST

    I see London, I see France,

    by Yeti

    I see Peri's....cooch?

  • May 20, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST


    by Shakeshift

    ...Should be on the new series as a guest star for a single episode, as should Ace or any of the other ladies whom they can get. If it is ONE THING we've learned this year from Sarah Jane about our companions... You must utilize them before they're eventually taken from us.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:19 p.m. CST

    doctortom - just download the torrent man, no worries.

    by Cap'n Jack

    What I want to know is, what is up with the Amy narration at the beginning of the episodes? This isn't Amy's show.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:20 p.m. CST

    Ace was one of my favourites. I wouldn't want her to come back, though.


    She was very much a companion of her time and suited Seven's stories. In some ways, I think that she was a partial inspiration for Rose; the brash young woman who was as stubborn as she was brave, and never gave up without a fight. I don't think I'd want to see her appear in the new version of DOCTOR WHO, though. She wouldn't have the same fire that made young Ace so interesting, and her aptitude for violence and explosives wouldn't seem anywhere near as unique in 2011. Seven and Ace always had that professor/student vibe, and it would be odd seeing the much older Ace with the young Eleven. The relationship would be extremely different to how it had been previously. Leave her in the past. She was a great companion but the world has moved on.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:22 p.m. CST



    Steven Moffat was asked the same thing on Twitter... "Hmm. It's always the COMPANION's story. Can't really imagine the Doctor doing an introductory chat." - 17th May 2011

  • May 20, 2011, 7:27 p.m. CST


    by Stale Elvis

  • May 20, 2011, 7:28 p.m. CST


    by Stale Elvis

    Amy doesn't narrate the begining of the eposodes... Is it a US thing?

  • May 20, 2011, 7:29 p.m. CST


    by Cap'n Jack

    Jesus that sucks. How about NO into chat then? That's worked since the sixties...

  • May 20, 2011, 7:29 p.m. CST

    she narrated the beginning of Beast Below

    by Seph_J

    but it isn't a regular thing is it?

  • ...and how many times this season are they going to point out that the tardis is bigger on the inside?

  • May 20, 2011, 7:38 p.m. CST

    I actually think...

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    ...that Dr Who has a lower batting average than compared to, say, DS9. I've been rewatching my favorite episodes from the first 4 seasons of Doctor Who, and I've realized that my list of favorite episodes is pretty short. S1 has The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, S2 has The Girl in the Fireplace, S3 has Human Nature/Family of Blood, and Blink, and S4 has Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, Midnight, and Water of Mars. Out of 56 episodes, only 10 were particularly amazing. The rest ranged from very solid (like The Impossible Planet, The End of Time, and Father's Day) to absolutely horrendous (Love and Monsters). That said though, I think while Doctor Who had only a small handful of amazing episodes, it did a good job in being entertaining even when it wasn't at its best. You could list hundreds of great character moments or bits of dialogue where it made even a mediocre episode watchable. Except for Love and Monsters. That was just a terrible disaster in every way, shape and form.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:39 p.m. CST


    by Cap'n Jack

    For me, the beginning of every episode has amy's little's super stupid.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Regarding Talkbacks For The Next Two Episodes

    by Merrick

    As you may or may not know, BBC America is delaying the broadcast of the next two DOCTOR WHO episodes here in The States to accommodate Memorial Day. Nonetheless, we will open the READER REACTION Talkbacks for the (not delayed) U.K airings of these episodes on the Fridays before they broadcast - just as we've been doing for the last few weeks. I.e next Friday May 27 TBs will open for "The Almost People," and Friday June 3 TBs for "A Good Man Goes To War" will activate. I haven't quite figured out the mechanics of the matter yet, but we'll make these same TBs available for a second time to U.S. readers when BBC America broadcasts the shows here in the U.S. I know this won't be the same...but...what to do?

  • May 20, 2011, 7:44 p.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    so is that a thing for the yanky version? seriously? I must say that is rather bizarre, particularly as shes hardly the most likeable of characters. Maelstrom. THE only good thing about Love & Monsters was ELO. That was all. (although I have always said I would very happily make myrtle moan her ass off in the hogwarts toilets. Shirley Henderson is hot.)

  • May 20, 2011, 7:50 p.m. CST

    I'M BACK!

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Hey gang! Love to return to the Docback! I've been an ULTRA busy boy and I've popped in to read but haven't taken the time to post... please forgive my negligence! Frozen and Shibly threatened me with violence and jammy dodgers if I didn't return! <br> I've been diggin' the hell out of this series so far and have well hooked a few more friends into the Whoniverse. Heck! We were the second highest rated show in Canada last week - the Moff and Mr. Gaiman even tweeted about our true northern devotion! <br> The series opening two parter were fantastic (Except for that final turn and shoot by River. If we forget The Silence when we look away how did she know he was approaching behind her!? I know. Nitpicky but avoidable if she'd seen his reflection in rory's eye or a TARDIS window) <br> The Pirate episode was a good wee romp. Mildly silly at times. But very fun and quite good for some solid laughs which was a nice cleansing of the pallet after the very dark openers. I have a friend and I've succesfully hooked her and her little guy (7) and her daughter (12) on the show and they loved the Pirate episode more than the first two. Maybe that's where they were targeting their demographic with that one a bit more. regardless... I enjoyed it. <br> The Doctor's Wife? Pretty much perfection. Loved it. Funny. Exciting. Touching. Just loved it. <br> Next weeks looks crackin' as well and I'm looking forward to it. <br> And Seph-J!!! TARDIS? McGann? I said that same thing weeks ago to my buds! I think it's going to happen too!!!

  • May 20, 2011, 7:51 p.m. CST

    Line breaks...

    by Pogue__Mahone

    How do you do them again? I'm a moron.

  • May 20, 2011, 7:55 p.m. CST

    Paul McGann's Return

    by Pogue__Mahone

    I mean... THIS seems to be an awful lot of bother for an AUDIO DRAMA... must look good for the microphone? Or this...

  • May 20, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Line breaks...

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Did I figure it out? Maybe? Let's take a look!

  • May 20, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST

    I DID!

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Ignore above comments. The ones I made before. About the line break things. The ones above this one. Thanks...

  • May 20, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    this is what is causing all the speculation.... turn the volume up loud...

  • May 20, 2011, 7:58 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    I miss our fearless leader. I hope all is well in his world. But do you know what I don't miss? Stargate: Universe

  • May 20, 2011, 7:59 p.m. CST

    Shows I Love...

    by Pogue__Mahone

    The only other things I enjoy on television as much as Doctor Who are FRINGE and Game Of Thrones.... And maybe True Blood for it's ridiculousness and fun. And Hellcats. Just kidding about Hellcats.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:02 p.m. CST

    I know it's early....

    by Pogue__Mahone

    But why haven't we started dominating the other talkbacks yet?

  • May 20, 2011, 8:03 p.m. CST

    Colin Baker

    by Pogue__Mahone

    I invited him - Via Twitter - to come join us in the Docback. How cool would it be if he were to become part of our little group!? Bloody BRILLIANT actually!

  • May 20, 2011, 8:06 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    Thanks for these awesome forums to chat about all things WHO! They're much appreciated and I've made some cool new friends! Hell! One of them just went to England to visit the other - and they went to The Doctor Who Experience! WITHOUT ME! (They know WHO they are! I won't mention Frozen's or Shibley's names!) BOING!

  • May 20, 2011, 8:07 p.m. CST


    by MoffatBabies

    Best of luck with the Baker thing. That WOULD be amazing. And as far as those shots of McGann go, they sadly do look like promotional/packaging shots. But we can dream, right? and gotilk is closer than you think.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:08 p.m. CST

    I remember those long nights..

    by MoffatBabies

    posting video after video after news story relating to Who. Trying to keep the discussion and the DocBack alive. Yes. It is true. I am him.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:09 p.m. CST

    But shhhhhh

    by MoffatBabies

    I'm incognito.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:12 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Damn skippy... narrowly averted disaster by finally showing up! Good thing too... I prefer to keep my stock of Jammie Dodgers to myself :P "Except for that final turn and shoot by River. If we forget The Silence when we look away how did she know he was approaching behind her!?" Question... wasn't that AFTER the subliminal message was planted? Perhaps the memory remains subconsciously... normally, it never pops to the surface and just eventually fades, unless something triggers its return (like Amy in the bathroom, when she remembered seeing the Silence on the bluff). Maybe with that subliminal message, the subconscious kicks in and takes over.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:14 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    If you speak truths - and I believe you do - it's GREAT to see ya here! You're alter ego was sorely missed! Hope all is well!

  • May 20, 2011, 8:16 p.m. CST

    Frozen's Subconsious

    by Pogue__Mahone

    I'll buy that... I mean it was COOL and everything... very action movie-esque. Just seemed odd. I still think a cool shot of The Silence reflected in Rory's frightened eye would have been more explanatory.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:19 p.m. CST

    Those McGann shots are so cool.

    by MoffatBabies

    It would be amazing to see him show up in the show proper. It's heartbreaking that we will not SEE his adventures. And comforting that we will never again see the Master played by Eric Roberts. *shiver*

  • May 20, 2011, 8:19 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    They could really do a better job with his hair. But I must own that sonic. By next weekend... seriously, I would kill to be sporting that thing at World Steam Expo *drools*

  • May 20, 2011, 8:20 p.m. CST

    Thank you pogue_mahone

    by MoffatBabies

    It's good to be here. All is well-ish. I can't complain much.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:21 p.m. CST

    Grrrrrr, avoid the Daily Mail UK website.


    Went there to read the sports news and was greeted with an almost unmissable spoiler about tomorrows episode. Still ... It has actually got me more excited for it now.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Send me a message on Facebook then.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST

    McGann's Sonic

    by Pogue__Mahone

    I bet we see it in all it's woody steam punky goodness before season's end! I bet we do!

  • May 20, 2011, 8:27 p.m. CST

    On a happy note...

    by Pogue__Mahone

    We've broken into the Hot Talkback column on the right... now commences our march to dominance. Other. Talkbacks. Will. Be. Deleted.

  • Maybe they were promotional pictures for his Big Finish audio Who dramas? But, looking at them, I thought it was a great look for the Doctor during the Time War. If Paul McGann were to come back as the Doctor in the tv series, he should come back looking like that. Yeah, yeah, I know, "keep dreaming".

  • May 20, 2011, 8:31 p.m. CST

    McGann's Look

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Agreed, Axcel1! That sort of weathered vibe... a bit rough around the edges... And that leather sailor's coat he has on morphs seamlessly into Ecclestons black leather bomber. I'm telling you! After noticing the figure in the background on the beach in The Impossible Astronaut? ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE! While it's been denied the voice in the Hypercube DID sound like McGann's. By the way? Has everyone seen the BRILLIANT Withnail & I?! You SHOULD! Two Doctor's for the price of one if Fatal Deaths and Shalkas are considered.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Pogue Stop it!!!

    by frozen01

    You are getting my hopes up! And the reflection-in-the-eye thing woulda just been hokey.

  • I think it's a good look for the Doctor, all soldier-like, something he would normally never be.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:35 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Oh, and for the record... TWO of us Yanks went to London to see shibs... and Doctor Who Experience... without you ;) The other has only been in the Docback once or twice, though. But yes, many cool new friends, much cross-cultural learning (and confusion!)... it's been fantastic and I'm also really grateful that we have this wonderful Who home! :)

  • May 20, 2011, 8:38 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    "Officially", that's what they've been claimed as... promo photos. Never having been subjected to Big Finish advertisements and promos, I feel rather unequipped to form an opinion here, though :\

  • May 20, 2011, 8:42 p.m. CST


    by Stale Elvis

    you seem familiar. where you from?

  • After the Doctor is blah- blah-blahed (No spoilers, I've only heard rumors, but, I have been told that rumors are the same as spoilers.), when Amy and Rory turn to River and give her that, "What do we do now?" look, Paul McGann's Doctor steps forward and says, "Well? Why don't we go find me?" Yes, I'm dreaming, but, it's a sweet dream, I think.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:50 p.m. CST

    Axcel's Sweet Dream

    by Pogue__Mahone

    You just gave me a nerd boner.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Stale Elvis

    by Pogue__Mahone

    I live in Southern Ontario in Canada... yourself?

  • May 20, 2011, 8:58 p.m. CST


    by Stale Elvis

    Not from Ontario thats for sure. Your words sound like a Doctor Geek I know - think I'm just projecting his voice to your words. Just out of interest, is there a place called Frontier Town near Ontario? Went there as a kid in '78 and it scared the shit out of me.

  • May 20, 2011, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Why is McGann dressed like Eccleston in those shots?

    by Cap'n Jack

    I want to see him in his DW outfit.

  • May 20, 2011, 9:06 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    Not familiar with Frontier Town... It does sound terrible... LOL And Cap'n Jack... maybe McGann's Doctor found his ruffles a little ill suited to fighting a Time War. (Although I LOVED is look in the film)..

  • May 20, 2011, 9:11 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    After seeing your gigantic ass bruise, that is not an image I wanted :P

  • May 20, 2011, 9:16 p.m. CST

    My Ass Bruise...

    by Pogue__Mahone

    WAS huge! Stupid Dublin Cobblestones.... and vast quantities of Guinness!

  • May 20, 2011, 9:30 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Jealous. The flight over did a number on my stomach and I was barely able to drink a thing :\ But that's okay. Cuz I went to Doctor Who Experience :P And I didn't have any ass bruises.

  • May 20, 2011, 9:34 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    Keep mentioning how awesome the DWE was and I'll give ya some bruises!!! <wink>

  • May 20, 2011, 9:44 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    That was a joke... I put the word 'wink' in little brackets but it disappeared... odd

  • May 20, 2011, 9:48 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Oh, hun, I haven't even BEGUN to mention how awesome it was ;) For instance, I haven't brought up how we got to pilot the TARDIS! ;)

  • May 20, 2011, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Why yes....

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Yes, you have! And how excited are you that our fearless leader has returned!!!??? WOOHOO!

  • May 20, 2011, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Doesn't count

    by frozen01

    I didn't say it HERE :P

  • The Moff did say two things about the cliffhanger in an interview before the start of the new season (series), "We find out about the true nature of the Doctor and Amy's relationship and, we will watch in horror as Rory reacts to a tragic mistake."

  • May 20, 2011, 10:12 p.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    It calls my name! Good fellow Docbackers! I shall see you all on the morrow! BOING!

  • May 20, 2011, 10:14 p.m. CST

    Last week's episode was so good, I'm watching it again.

    by mistergreen

  • May 20, 2011, 10:16 p.m. CST

    what do you guys see in this show?

    by cerberus

    I jumped on a season ago and I just can't see what makes show so great. It's not a bad show, but it isn't that great either. There seems to be some kind of strange mix of nostalgia and nationalism that hangs over the fanbase. It's not a bad show, it's a fun kids show. It strikes me as the kind of show that the smart kids would stick around for after Mighty Morphing Power Rangers ends. I just don't see how fandom lets it sit at the adult table with Star Trek, BSG, etc.

  • May 20, 2011, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Fall premiere date and labor day

    by History101

    Anyone know episode 8 date Will labor day cause another "scheduling" issue?

  • May 20, 2011, 10:55 p.m. CST

    re: cerebus

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    Being an American-born Asian, I can assure you that there's no British nationalism involved with my love for the show. Maybe nostalgia, but I find it highly unlikely since I only started watching the show a month ago, and ran through about 5 seasons since then. I'll definitely agree with you that Doctor Who isn't as thematically complex as, say, BSG or DS9. But what Doctor Who manages to excel at is telling a good sci-fi story, mixed with decent character development and a sense of adventurous optimism that you really don't see too often now in modern media. And in that sense, yes, maybe Doctor Who might be more similar to child TV shows. The good guys generally win, there's never any blood, and stories never stray too far from the swashbuckling hero archetype. But despite all that, it still manages to tell a compelling tale with a still more compelling protagonist. That's why I love the show anyways, coming from a non-Brit. Other people may have different answers.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:28 a.m. CST

    I'll probably wait 'til next week to watch The Rebel Flesh...

    by wtriker1701

    NO, I DON'T! Can't wait! Have to watch it tonight... biting nails and wait the whole 7 days for the next... penultimate 6.1... GOTL .. ahem... moffatbabies, so you've been here the whole time? Good to know! Well done hiding, my friend! BTW... where's Spud McSpud??? As for Paul McGann's return: That.Would.Be.Awesome... but just fan's dream I suspect... As for Nicola Bryant... Killer shot!!! Lucky bastard Colin Baker...

  • May 21, 2011, 1:42 a.m. CST

    Bring back RTD. I need some lightness....

    by JaNath

    ....Greetings fellow Docbackers. This episode had better have some fun in it. Not only have my two boys completely lost interest in DW - and they were such huge fans - but i am beginning to. I watched last week's episode drunk after a party and haven't bothered to see it again on catch-up, despite this fanboys wet dream of having some of the story set in the TARDIS corridors and seeing the old control room again (SO much better; round, symmetrical, large, decrepit. Just as it should be). I'm still surprised that SM referenced that. Look, what's the overriding colour palette of this series? Dark, murky green, dark...dark....DARK. RTD may have been a little too flamboyant at times for some but damn, DW was fun. My boys ask to watch specific episodes all the time, but not this series. DW has always been a family show and is now moving drastically away from that. Anyhoo, will be watching, at least until my kids get bored. Bored of DW? At their age? Something must be wrong. I went to Uni and knew well the director of "A Good Man Goes To War" so that should be an interesting watch.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:40 a.m. CST



    That was actually an almost perfect description of DOCTOR WHO and the reason why I watch it.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:02 a.m. CST

    I was just reading the GREEN LANTERN TB...


    ..and there was interesting discussion about how people can't think of iconic movie scores (such as the SUPERMAN, INDIANA JONES or BATMAN 1988 theme) for recent releases. It got me thinking about many good pieces of music there are in this show. Even if we only look at the Eleven episodes, the "I Am The Doctor" theme and it's many variants (I loved the version used during the climax of "Day Of The Moon") are extremely recognizable. I'm surprised Gold hasn't been poached for a movie yet. I'm glad that he hasn't because (and I know some people don't like his stuff) for me, Murray Gold's scores are an essential part of the revived Doctor Who. The guy kicks ASS.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:18 a.m. CST

    The Best Doctor Who Tramples Star Trek Easily

    by HornOrSilk

    And I am just talking about New Who -- it was a given for Classic Who. Star Trek had nothing as complex as a SM script. Ever. City on the Edge of Forever? Child's play in comparison to Blink.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:45 a.m. CST

    Looking forward to this week's SGU, Dickholder?


    I read that the show's co-creator blamed some of the SG fanbase for SGU demise. Must be great to be part of a fandom that actively destroys its own show! LOL back atchya, buddy!

  • May 21, 2011, 5:59 a.m. CST

    Gold certainly does memorial tunes

    by HornOrSilk

    I agree there. He should have been recruited for TinTin.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:17 a.m. CST

    Murray Gold gets me through the day on a regular basis

    by Seph_J

    damn those scores are excellent. ALTHOUGH there is one theme that appeared a couple of times thats never made onto the soundtrack CDs. It's first heard in Waters of Mars when the doc is 'fighting time itself'. This fantastic theme kicks in. It's next heard when the Master steps through the immortality gate in the final moments of EOT1.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:11 a.m. CST



    I'm going to have go back and watch that scene, and listen to the music you speak of!

  • May 21, 2011, 7:18 a.m. CST

    christian bale

    by Seph_J

    it's a really simple theme, but damn its bombastic!! In Waters of Mars it begins about 6 seconds after Tennant says "who needs atom clamps, I love a funny robot!" and in EoT1 about 2 seconds after John Simm says: "they're not gonna think like me, they're gonna BECOME me!" Great tune.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:28 a.m. CST

    Good Morning!

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Happy Rapture Day, fellow Docbackers! I'm not worried. The Doctor will save us!

  • May 21, 2011, 7:29 a.m. CST

    Maelstrom Zero

    by Pogue__Mahone

    Very well said, my friend! That's it in a bloody big nutshell!

  • May 21, 2011, 7:31 a.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    Agreed... while some complain about Gold's music, myself - and my friends - are big fans of his scores. In fact, one of our new Who Converts recently stated, "This is perhaps the best music I've ever heard on a TV show! It sounds like a big screen film score." Kudos, Mr. Gold.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:34 a.m. CST

    McGann's Back! And It's Love!

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 21, 2011, 7:37 a.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    I suppose it's all a matter of taste, no? I suppose the overall tone of Moffat's range may be slightly darker but I'm enjoying it far more (and I loved most of RTD's stuff, too)... as I've said earlier, there are some younger kids in our weekly Who Camp - ranging from 7 to 13 - and they are LOVING it! I think they enjoy the slightly darker tone as it doesn't pander to them and assume that they're too young or it's too scary. (Zoe even painted a large crack on her bedroom wall... on a huge piece of art paper, of course) And my nephew, who started with Tennant and who's seen several Doctor's from Hartnell to the Bakers to Troughton has stated emphatically that his favourite Doctor - HIS Doctor - is Matt Smith.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:37 a.m. CST

    plus.. (and I don't know how well y'all know the scores)

    by Seph_J

    but something potentially important struck me the very first time I saw The Eleventh Hour. Now for anyone who doesn't listen to or care about the music in DW, best to skip this. For everyone else, see what you think. Think back to The End of Time part 2, when we actually started playing within the events of the Time War. We had the fantastic 'war' version of the majestic gallifrey theme to actually open the episode, with the downed dalek ships and the pretty beaten up citadel. BUT later in the episode when Rassilon attempts to break out the time lock by sending the diamond to Earth (but silly, but hey ho) listen to the short theme that plays just as rassilon throws it, and it streaks across the sky, just before the chorals jump in. Now seeing as that is the ONLY time we hear that theme, I'm going to call it the 'time-war' theme, as it ultimately signals the closest we've got to the time war 'returning' yet. Now FAST FORWARD right through to The Eleventh Hour... go to the scene in Jeffs bedroom, "the suns gone wibbly"... just as the doctor sends the secret of faster than light travel to Patrick Moore....listen.... it IS the same theme... born in the timelords plot to escape the Time War and following the 11th doctor around. That isn't the only time this particular theme plays either... it crops up repeatedly throughout series 5 and 6. Now, as Gold does seem to embrace the leit motif way of scoring quite a bit (with individual themes for Boe, Martha, Donna, Gallifrey, Cybermen, etc.) I'm thinking it's probably important, subtle foreshadowing........thoughts on that?

  • May 21, 2011, 7:44 a.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    funny picture. McGann is saying "a lotta shits gone dawwn between uus in the time waar, but forgive n' forget eh" very sweet.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:47 a.m. CST


    by Pogue__Mahone

    That's slightly mad and genius of you, Sir (or Madam)! I'm going to have to pop on my blu rays and give them a spin! My curiousity is MOST piqued!

  • The 11th Doctor is about to be killed off by a Silent. Suddenly, you hear a "time jump" sound and a Dalek appears and shoots the Silent. The Doctor looks in surprise as the TARDIS appears, out comes the 8th Doctor, and he hugs the Dalek saying, "Thanks honey."

  • May 21, 2011, 7:55 a.m. CST



    I have no idea if the re-occurrence of that theme is important, subtle foreshadowing but I certainly salute you and your fantastic ears. Only the Ninth Doctor could have detected such an audio clue more clearly!

  • May 21, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk SPOILERIFFIC indeed

    by Seph_J

    and quite believeable. McGann has yet to face the Daleks onscreen - there's no visual proof that they were enemies. Perhaps Doc8 was actually working for the Daleks in the Time War, in an attempt to bring down the psychotic spitting Rassilon and his 'final sanction'. Thats why when the Doctor watched Davros fly into the jaws of the nightmare child he 'tried to save him'. Oh my God.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:57 a.m. CST

    Could you all just stay still for a bit, because I AM TALKING!!!

    by IAmMrMonkey!

  • May 21, 2011, 8 a.m. CST

    pogue/christian bale

    by Seph_J

    thanks guys. I have always loved scores and have been just blown away by Murray Golds efforts on DW. The fact that he does use leit motif often gives a lot of clues, and alerts you to the fact that a certain character is appearing, often minutes before they do. An example of that would be the little 'electronic-tinkly' sound that was Davros' theme. It played the moment the Doctor and Donna stepped out of the TARDIS... before the Earth was even stolen. Make no mistake, Murray Gold knows where the series is going, and it's part of his craft to weave it all together. There are clues there.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:14 a.m. CST

    BBCA will not keep me... from my Doctor Who!

    by Eternal Optimist

    This is the best show on television at the moment. If they think they can stop me enjoying my madman in a box... they are wrong!

  • May 21, 2011, 8:15 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Interesting theory, and maybe it's true for some, but you'll notice there are a lot of new Who fans and non-Brits here. It's just fun. It doesn't take itself too seriously. There's great writing, fantastic dialog, and the show can almost literally be anything: a mystery, an historical piece, an adventure, a thriller, etc., and it can do so very seamlessly.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:41 a.m. CST

    4 hours till Toblerone time

    by Seph_J

  • May 21, 2011, 9:09 a.m. CST

    Is it on at 6:30 again?

    by frozen01

  • May 21, 2011, 9:11 a.m. CST

    6:45 this week

    by Seph_J

    bit weird. Keeps getting later.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:14 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Not sure why I asked... can't watch it til midnight-ish anyways :P

  • May 21, 2011, 9:30 a.m. CST

    Speculation about 8, 9, 10 & 11

    by veteran_of_mu

    The current arc goes all the way back to the events at the end of Dr 10's reign. The seal around the time war was broken and Gallifrey broke free. All of time was rewritten - crucial events in Dr 10's life never happened as evidenced by his comments to Amy that she should have remembered what the Daleks were. Well, what did 10 do that could have caused this? He saved Mickey & Martha, gave Donna a lottery ticket, Jack a date ... and saw Rose. Rose from before she ever met 9. Assuming 9 was freshly regenerated in his first episode, as he appeared to be, that means Rose during the life of 8. And recklessly leaking regeneration energy as he went ... Now let's say you're a victorious 8. You've just sealed up Gallifrey and the Daleks forever. You've won. You're the very last Time Lord. Except ... except for someone wandering around your England leaking regeneration energy. You go to investigate and ... there's a future you and a future Master and future Daleks and future Cybermen and it's the whole bloody mess all over again. It came from you. The only way the universe will ever be saved is if you make the ultimate sacrifice - of your own future. You have to steal your future, place it in a bottle, some place safe, some place your future selves will never even know is a bottle, where you can live out your life and never threaten to wake all those old foes again. Where is there a place like that? You follow along after the new incarnations, keeping in the shadows, watching, waiting, and there it is, of course, at last. The Library. Simulate a whole world in there and you can finally mop up after your reckless future incarnations. They'll never escape it. All you have to do is lure them in there. How to do that? You start hunting yourself, always keeping in the shadows, staying Silent ... until you know enough to make the perfect trap. All you have to do is arrange for 10 to plug your gimmicked screwdriver into the Library database ... which will promptly upload him. Use the Vashta Narada to destroy his body. And that's that, no fuss, no muss. The only trouble you have is you don't know how you're going to die yourself. Something has to create Dr 9. So you have to create a race who can do more mopping up - who can make everybody else forget things ... keep it silent, keep it safe ... Okay, that last is Gandalf, but what do you think?

  • May 21, 2011, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Frozen renee, midnight-ish?????????????????????????

    by axcel1

    That late? I only have to wait an hour or so after the BBC airing to watch it.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    Well thought out, and devious. But it essentially turns the doctor into a nightmarish, shadow-hiding bastard - THE big bad of the past 6 series. "A goblin" infact, "or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies - the most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it, or hold it or reason with it. One daiy it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world."

  • And, I will enjoy every second of it, I already know it.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:41 a.m. CST


    by veteran_of_mu

    Yes, you've got it. The Time War never ended. We're watching it right now.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:52 a.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    How about you change it from Doctor Eight to "The Valeyard." Then you can explain everything, including his breaking of the time lock itself to get to the Matrix in the Trial. The Trial was all about him finding out to take control of the Time War and use it to change everything, including his past.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:54 a.m. CST

    The big villain of Season 6 is a fish with fingers


    The clues placed through this season and the previous one make this almost certain. Do fish even have fingers? Why yes, AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO TEAR OUT YOUR TWO HEARTS!!!

  • May 21, 2011, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Speculation/ Maybe Spoilers Continue ...

    by veteran_of_mu

    The one thing you must never put in a trap is the Doctor. Why? Because the Tardis will always give him what he needs. Even if that means using side effects in earlier adventures to give it to him. Even when he tries to trap himself, she won't let it happen. Even if she has to create a paradox inside a companion to break the trap ... Golly!

  • May 21, 2011, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Must have another look at McGann's screwdriver ...

    by veteran_of_mu

  • May 21, 2011, 10:14 a.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    The return of.... The Fish People! Damn! You figured it out!

  • May 21, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST



    "Error. Remote linking denied" I wanted to see the fish people! I haz a sad.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:23 a.m. CST

    Fish Heads, Fish Heads....

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 21, 2011, 10:26 a.m. CST

    Jim the fish leading an army of fish with fingers.

    by Seph_J

    Would still be better than Fear Her.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:33 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Sorry... midnight-ish THEIR time, not mine. Have to wait for someone to get off of work :P

  • May 21, 2011, 10:47 a.m. CST

    exactly 2 hours!!

    by Seph_J

  • May 21, 2011, 10:48 a.m. CST

    Good Morn, (barely) you lucky people.

    by Perigee

    I await your bounty at the Pirate's Bay. Yo Ho Ho, if they really say that. I think the spec that Murray had foreknowledge of Season 6 when writing Season 4's incidentals is pretty far afield; I wouldn't put too much weight on that. Most of the soundtrackers I listen to (Horner is huge for it) have a little squidge of business they seem to toss in here and there when they temporize. I forget the exact phrase, but by the same logic, Captain Kirk fighting Khan had foreknowledge of the Aliens on LV-426. As to cerebus, DW isn't "High Concept" (although Moff does have his Icarus wings on), but there's much to be said for to good ol' rousing Indiana Jones/Star Wars (early)/Flash Gordon archetype. Having grown up a Trekkie, I can do well without trknobabble chronoton fields causing a cascade failure of the biometric gelpacks resulting in an isolinear biopolarity that destabilizes the matter/antimatter iduction units in Jeffries Tube 4E. I like Alien Fish in Venice every now and then.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:50 a.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    not when writing series 4, when writing the End of Time 2-parter... which is Matt Smiths first appearance. When Moffat had already drawn up his plan for the next series (5) and cast Matt as the doctor. Not too far of a stretch I think.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:53 a.m. CST

    If the Rapture comes before I see this tonight

    by Evilmeister

    I will personally punch God in the face Jus sayin

  • May 21, 2011, 10:57 a.m. CST


    by Perigee

    I think that depends on how far along a story arc you believe Moff had envisioned; it's a long, long long game - one that I'm assuming wouldn't pay off until 24 or more episodes, 22 of which were probably not even envisioned at the time the episode was aired. It's Possible - but not probable. As good as Gold is, (heh) like any composer, he pretty much has to deal with an episode at a time. He can cobble together motifs for later use, but unless Moff sat down with him and said, "2-3 years from now we want this scene to foreshadow the blahblah..." That would be like Lucas trying to foreshadow the Trade Federation in "A New Hope." COULD be done, but just very, very unlikely.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:02 a.m. CST

    perigree I really think its quite possible

    by Seph_J

    that Moffat said "look GOLDenboy, we ain't done with the time war yet, so slap a new time war theme in there and keep it in the background for a while, cos you'll need it when I unleash the Skaro degradations (or whatever) on the world" Afterall... like he did before, why write an ENTIRE Gallifrey theme, just for one flashback in series 3? Davies must have told him there would be more dealings with Gallifrey in the future, and since then it's been used half a dozen times - and it one of the best themes.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:04 a.m. CST


    by notspock2

    Obviously, you aren't SM- that would be stupid. Out of interest though, while you were writing Press Gang, how big an influence on you were Madeline Hayes and David Addison?

  • May 21, 2011, 11:13 a.m. CST

    Time will tell, Seph

    by Perigee

    You could be right; personally, until such time as it happens, I'm sticking with the "Horner Lick #13" theory of soundtrack filling. With all the cliffhangers they're tossing around already, the last thing I need to do is go back over the past 3 seasons searching for possible leitmotif clues to left-field asteroids heading towards us. ~Grin~ I have enough grey hair already. We will see, surely.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:25 a.m. CST

    "time will tell"

    by Seph_J

    "it always does" first person to name the episode gets an imaginary toblerone.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:30 a.m. CST



    Second best Seven story! (CURSE OF FENRIC is first, in my opinion)

  • May 21, 2011, 11:33 a.m. CST

    christian bale ENJOY THAT TOBLERONE MAN

    by Seph_J

    I think it's probably my favourite 7th doc story, although Happiness Patrol and Greatest Show are so bugnuts I can help but adore them

  • May 21, 2011, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Just dropping an anchor...

    by Kelvington

    This way I know where to skip to after the episode airs. I wonder if Paul McGann is in this one? I wonder...

  • May 21, 2011, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Apparently Moff is also a fan of ROTD


    He mentioned it on his Twitter page not so long ago, saying it was well made, well paced and engaging.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:48 a.m. CST



    I finally got around to watching one of your Youtube videos recently. The one where DOCTOR WHO meets STAR WARS. Good stuff, buddy! Really enjoyed it.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:49 a.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    kelv: is that McGann sarcasm I detect? christian: yeh it is. And the Davros/Doctor confrontation is excellent. I also always wanted to know about the Hand of Omega, which looks unnervingly like a coffin.

  • May 21, 2011, 11:51 a.m. CST

    Queen Victoria created Canada and Torchwood

    by JPKk

    Queen Victoria & responsible government Happy Victoria weekend from Canada! In Canada a long-weekend does not stop Doctor Who episodes and we don't stop long-weekends to be beamed up to heaven ( "we may not be Heaven, but Heaven knows we try" - billy Bishop Goes to War ).

  • I stand corrected.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:02 p.m. CST



    Yeah, the Hand Of Omega was an interesting item and it's a shame we didn't get to know more about it. Or maybe the mystery surrounding it is a good thing. I always thought that the Hand Of Omega was inside of the coffin, but I guess that I could be wrong.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Sam Jackson's Wig


    Where are you? You DO know it's Saturday and there's only ONE place you should be right now, don'tchya? This is a fucking disgrace!

  • May 21, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    I don't know, it just feels like you're trying to cram too many things in there. I don't buy the 10th Doctor taking his "victory lap" as a reason for the whole Time War to be unlocked. You could just as easily say that Rose did it when she (briefly) saved her dad in Father's Day. They still had the Time War in place after that. <br> Mind you, I suspect that we'll find out that he did change time somewhat during his victory lap. Having to ground out some of that "paradox" combined with the regeneration might explain why the TARDIS control room got wrecked while Tennant regenerated into Matt Smith. They've never had a Doctor's regeneration destroy the TARDIS before. For that matter, the Master also regenerated in the TARDIS in Utopia and it didn't mess the TARDIS up one bit. <br> I suspect, however, that Moffat's going to tie the Silents and/or Cybermen into why the TARDIS control room got destroyed during the regeneration. If it's tied into the Doctor's victory lap at all, it will be because he picked up a Silent stowaway at the time of doing his victory lap. (Were there any suspicious footprints in the snow in the final Doc10/Rose scene in The End of Time that could possibly be explained by a Silent standing there?)

  • May 21, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    25 minutes!

    by Seph_J

  • May 21, 2011, 12:31 p.m. CST

    15 minutes to go and I'm stuck at work!!!

    by Gabba-UK

    I will join you with my thoughts after I'm home and watched it. Last week is gonna be a tough act to follow.

  • May 21, 2011, 12:33 p.m. CST

    McCoy's Doctor

    by HornOrSilk

    I think he is a good Doctor (and some of the audios are classics), though it is sad his era suffered the most because of the BBC's mistreatment of the show. Some great stories which should have been classics were done poorly and people can't see how good the story is because of it (Paradise Towers is an example; I love the story and I enjoy watching it though it also is done so badly it it is a love/hate fest when I watch it). To Rank McCoy's episodes, I would say: 1. Curse of Fenric 2. Ghostlight 3. Remembrance of the Daleks 4. Paradise Towers (I know, I know) 5. Survival 6. Silver Nemesis (I know, I know) 7. Happiness Patrol 8. Battlefield 9. Greatest Show in the Galaxy 10. Dragonfire 11. Delta and the Bannermen 12. Time and the Rani (the only utter stinker of the lot, imo).

  • May 21, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST

    7 minutes... see ya'll on the other side

    by Seph_J

  • May 21, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    I hate the wait for part two of any two parter.

    by V'Shael

    But I'm not missing this episode just to watch them back to back next week. I know the writer is capable of greatness. I loved Life On Mars and Ashes to Ashes. And he has said in interviews that he wants to make amends for Fear Her. Fingers crossed, he does just that.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Can we still get next week's ep on iTunes on time?

    by sunspot_mike

    I think The Rebel Flesh is the most classic-like sounding Doctor Who story that's coming this season, which already feels like it's one of the best yet. I'm terribly excited about it. The Doctor's Wife was indeed a winner (creepy and funny, the Amy grafitti and Rory skeleton would have killed me when I was a kid!) I thought the performances and the special effects in Curse of the Black Spot were terrific even if I wish they'd stop trying to kill Rory (Threaten to kill off a side character instead because we'll believe it more!) But I think everything so far has been pretty great. I usually spend Saturday nights performing so I've been able to buy the new episodes on Sunday on iTunes (and renting shows over the Internet on my phone and computer still blows my mind!) But if episode 6 is on iTunes next Sunday, then I'm all set.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:30 p.m. CST


    by donkey_lasher

    That was alright. An interesting concept. The ending will have people saying "I told you so" a lot.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Nicola Bryant...

    by sunspot_mike

    ...was indeed one of the hottest Who girls ever. There's a lot of hate for the Colin Baker era but when I was little I really thought The Twin Dilemma was awesome. And the novelization of "The Mysterious Planet" and "Terror of the Vervoids" were the only ways to get his second season for me for a long time because Trial of a Timelord didn't get broadcast in Milwaukee until the early 90's. The whole genocide revelation at the end of Vervoids blew my 11-year old mind!

  • May 21, 2011, 1:32 p.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    Well, that was horrendously disappointing. I mean, I'm sure that the final 2 minutes have absolutely no connection to The Impossible Astronaut. But even so... that was really (and I hate to say it) incredibly boring.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Not bad. Not great, but not bad.

    by V'Shael

    It's biggest problem was that it was so predictable. That's not too much of a surprise. It's hard to be original with such a storyline, considering it's been done so often in sci-fi, especially recently in MOON and SURROGATES. In fact, like MOON, we could be forgiven for thinking all the people on the island were gangers. I don't know if the cliff-hanger would have come as too much of surprise, given the events in TIA and the heavy heavy forshadowing in this episode, that a clone was on the way. But even so, the fact that the Doctor was going to be cloned was one of the WORST kept spoilers in Doctor Who history.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    solid first part. *spoilers*

    by notspock2

    Handy that there's a doctor clone.... i wonder where that might come in handy earlier? or do I mean later?

  • May 21, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Shit episode, wasn't engaged once by this Thing,

    by john

    Body Snatchers lame ass rip off. Mat needs better writing!

  • May 21, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    well that was flat...

    by emeraldboy

    really flat.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    A bit Frankenstein, a bit The Thing, a bit Blade Runner...

    by penhapus

    but none of the ideas really came together; perhaps it needs the second part.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Not good enough.

    by Octavian

    Poor old Matt Smith. He's doing the best with the tripe he is being served. I'm going to give Confidential a miss. I don't need that bumptious prick Moffat telling me how much of a genius he is. I've been watching the series, so I know.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:50 p.m. CST

    On Confidential, they keep saying the gangers are scary.

    by V'Shael

    No, they fucking aren't. Not even a LITTLE bit. Look, let's leave the shitty special fx aside for a second. Surely the scary fuckers in this episode, are the humans? Do you ever get the feeling the writer and the director and various others, just don't GET the show they're working on?

  • May 21, 2011, 1:53 p.m. CST

    I'm increasingly coming to the opinion that Moffat...

    by penhapus

    ...used up all his good ideas with his first series in charge; he's increasingly coming across as Gordon Brown to Russell T's Tony Blair.

  • May 21, 2011, 1:54 p.m. CST


    by Octavian

  • May 21, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    @ v'shael - second attempt...

    by Octavian

    "Do you ever get the feeling the writer and the director and various others, just don't GET the show they're working on?" It's been obvious for a while that those appearing on Confidential are utterly deluded, with Moffat taking the part of the Emperor resplendent in his new clothes. They think they are making ground breaking sci-fi. I think they are selling merchandise.

  • May 21, 2011, 2 p.m. CST


    by Darth_Tarantino

    Absolutely agree that "The Curse Of Fenric" is the best Seventh Doctor story. And I really enjoyed tonight's episode! Looking forward to the conclusion next week. I'll have my review up, as usual, tomorrow morning at my Doctor Who blog:

  • May 21, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    @Octavian - Well, we can disagree there.

    by V'Shael

    I think on Confidential, the most idiotic comments came from the director, with the writer coming a close second. The smartest (so far) from Arthur Darvill.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:01 p.m. CST

    6 was my doctor...

    by freakshowmonkey

    He always felt the most real to me. I mean, if you truly were a god among ants, don't you think you might just come off as a bit pompous and arrogant? Like explaining quantum physics to a monkey. Eventually you're just gonna get annoyed, call it a stupid ape and throw it a banana. Pity the stories, for the most part, weren't all that great. Did love VENGEANCE ON VAROS, though... I'm gonna wait until the DVD set for this season comes out, I think. I find the Amy Pond voice-over at the beginning of every episode horribly annoying, and BBCA seems bound and determined to cram every last little free second full of commercials. It's really disconcerting when you wedge commercial breaks into a show that was edited together without these breaks in mind. It just feels really weird.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Red herring

    by CartoonScott

    Everyone is gonna say the doctor shot by the astronaut was in fact a clone but I would bet not, in fact I would hope not as that would be too lazy an explanation. Though I hoped LOST wouldnt have wasted seven years worth of viewing with there easy lazy ending and I was wrong ther

  • May 21, 2011, 2:08 p.m. CST

    I love Colin Bakers doctor.

    by V'Shael

    If you really want to get some good stories with 6, there are some good novels in the Virgin Adventures with him. And the audio adventures by Big Finish really let Colin show what he could have done, had the BBC not been run by fucking morons back in the day.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:09 p.m. CST

    New to docbalkers, but not new to Who.

    by john

    Matt is a great Doctor, but the guy is being sorely let down by dodgy scripts. Very hit and miss, mostly miss. Also getting really annoyed with Amy, I don't get much from her at all. Sure I'd like to bang her back door in, but that's about it.

  • They really had very little to say about anything.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    I liked it!

    by Fixthe Fernback

    And I thought the Gangers WERE creepy! Loving this series so far. Probably rate this episode around a B with last weeks being an A (obviously).

  • May 21, 2011, 2:17 p.m. CST

    V'shael: The backroom bods take it in turns...

    by Octavian

    ... to be the most self-regarding, and the actors flip a coin to see who gets to say how terrifying the monsters are. By any standard of new Who that was a rotten episode. I'd think about bailing out at the first opportunity if I was Matt Smith.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Ayup---I'll go to the foot of our stairs

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Well my aresehole---sorry opinion--seems to differ a bit because I enjoyed it. This was a bit of a throwback to Classic Who with the Doctor and co wandering around corridors whilst we wait to see what pops out. Matt Smith did a good turn in this , one minute very serious, one minute comedic...and his performance(s) next week look interesting. I thought it was strong for the first of a two parter as well...the balance felt right in that I know there's more to come but this nicely sat on its own as an episode. Yes its been done before but I still felt the arguments as to who was really entitled to the life were nicely laid out. Gangers suitably creepy at times as well. But on top of that :- Eye patch woman The Doctor has come here deliberately The Doctor created his ganger deliberately Even Rory is getting sick of being killed every week !!! Only thing telegraphed to death is that fuckin sneeze---jeez we get that it will be critical !!

  • May 21, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST

    2 clips from next week up on BBC website.

    by V'Shael

    Only available if you're in the UK or can spoof a UK IP address. Interesting. The first one seems to indicate some of the gangers remember only their current life. Others remember every time they've been killed. The second one shows the Doctors working together, while the Next Time trailer did show one apparently attacking Amy. Or an Amy, I guess.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:22 p.m. CST

    A bit flat

    by McBegbie

    Not the best episode but certainly not the worst. As it's a two parter I'll reserve overall judgement. Rory was the stand out performance this week, seems to be developing more of a backbone.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:24 p.m. CST

    Still nervous ....


    Well third post of this thread I said I was nervous about this two-parter and sadly I feel the same way now ... more so. I've said it multiple times and will say it again ... Smith is a gift, an incredible Doctor, everything around him is weak, disappointing, holding him back. Emperors clothes right now, everyone is loving the direction ... but I can't see what they see.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:26 p.m. CST

    I think for kids who haven't come across the concept before

    by V'Shael

    this will be a good episode. It's only boring old hat to those of us who are all to familiar with the standard sci-fi tropes this episode was adorned with. And yeah, there's bound to be some arc related stuff going on, with the pregnancy scan being there at the start, Frances Barber making an appearance, and the Doctor wanting to get rid of his companions while he got up to something mysterious.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:29 p.m. CST

    Watching it right now.. and already hearing something odd

    by HornOrSilk

    I can't make (with my computer speakers) what the Doctor says, but Rory is like, what do you mean, we just arrived; and Amy is like "by accident." Does anyone know what he said?

  • May 21, 2011, 2:33 p.m. CST

    I'm wondering if this might not be a set up for something big

    by HornOrSilk

    An attempt at "Genesis of the Sontarans"? I am still watching, but thinking, what if... probably not.. of course.. but would be a way to up the ante in the next episode... It does seem slowish so far, but that's ok. And not every story will be perfect. I do think, however, with a darker season, they do need to hire one sci-fi comic writer as well, to make sure one episode is the "fun relief" of the season.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:34 p.m. CST

    First disapppointing episode of the season for me. (Episode-related SPOILERS within)


    It was from the guy behind FEAR HER. I now fear his scripts. I had several problems with this episode. 1. Where was the comedy? I've managed to get at least one laugh from every episode this season. Not here, though. Gaiman managed to cram in a ton of chuckles during his 42 minutes. It's not impossible. 2. The entire first part of this story seemed to be set up entirely for that cliffhanger at the end. And seriously; if you're going to set up a cliffhanger like that, don't signpost it from half way into the episode. 3. What's up with Rory? Ever since he first appeared, he's been devoted to Amy. Now he decides to abandon her and race after a Ganger that he's only just met? What the hell was that about? It's my fifth favorite episode this season.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:37 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights... Thanks! Cheers!

    by Kelvington

    I'm reserving judgement on this one until I see the second half. This episode was certainly lacking something. Not sure I can put my finger on it, but something about the coverage or setting really bugged me. I sense there's a really good cut of this episode somewhere, but we didn't see it. I think they might have been going after the Frankenstein vibe but somehow they missed it. Or too much switching between day and night. And you are correct seph_j, I see absolutely no connection between this and "The Impossible Astronaut" LOL Makeup was clever, the plasticman stuff was less so. This episode might be a good representation of what budget cutting can do. :(

  • May 21, 2011, 2:41 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights -

    by john

    agree with the lack of humour. The background actors were dull too. Question to all the hardcore doc fans, the type who have seen every episode - has the doctor ever been fucked up physically before?? Like John McClane levels of fuckage?? Would love to see an episode like that, maybe that's just the blood lust in me. As you were...

  • May 21, 2011, 2:44 p.m. CST



    There are a number of reasons that CURSE OF FENRIC works for me. Firstly, it shows Seven at one of his most manipulative (equaled only by his cunning in REMEMBRANCE OF THE DALEKS) and I love the scene where he destroys Ace's faith in him. Secondly, the side plot involving Ace's mother as a child is really nice and plays with the time travel aspect of the show in a way that Moffat would approve of. Thirdly, Fenric himself is a pretty great villain and I love his introduction ("We play the game again, Time Lord!") along with his creepy army of vampires rising from the sea. Those two vamp sisters were especially eerie. The whole thing has a great 80's John Carpenter vibe to it and would work just as well today as it did back then. It's a great script and, if there had been more Seven stories like CURSE OF FENRIC and less like TIME AND THE RANI or DRAGONFIRE, I think that particular incarnation would be a lot more highly regarded.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:46 p.m. CST

    As for what's up with Rory...

    by V'Shael

    I think they made it clear. He's known Amy since he was a kid, and she's never ever once made him feel like a "guy" in the sense that she's never needed him for anything. Not to protect her, not to save her, not to do anything stereotypically male. This girl, not only appeals to his nursing Nightingale instincts, but clearly likes him and needs him in a way that Amy never did. If he can save her, protect her, he can at least demonstrate his male qualities to his wife, even if she didn't need him in that way herself.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:47 p.m. CST

    tittytwister ... yes occasionally...

    by Kelvington

    In the Tom Baker era, he was turned into a cactus doppleganger and aged to a very old man. David Tennant had one of his hearts stopped, and a hand cut off. William Hartnell was taken so sick once he didn't even appear in one of the episodes. Colin Baker was turned into a ponce... oh wait, that was just the way he played it. :) Typically the Doctor stays out of the fray, but the master has been burned alive, and killed in a number of very clever ways.

  • May 21, 2011, 2:48 p.m. CST



    "The Doctor created his ganger deliberately" I must have misssed the scene where that was hinted. How do we know this?

  • May 21, 2011, 2:50 p.m. CST


    by Kelvington

    Oh and I'm going to say this now... before someone else does... from the time they wake up, they are ALL gangers, everyone of them with spare copies of each. All of them, even Amy, even Rory, even the rest. Even Paul McGann, and the Rani, and Amy's house! All gangers. :)

  • May 21, 2011, 2:52 p.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights... there's a scene...

    by Kelvington

    SPOILERS - There's a scene where the doctor is standing over the Flesh ALONE with his sonic and he's super sonicing the Flesh, right after that the Doctor's lips appear and say, "Trust Me". I thought that was pretty deliberate.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:02 p.m. CST

    "he can at least demonstrate his male qualities to his wife"


    No easy task .. She would probably just roll her eyes and run off to hug the Doctor again. Least convincing couple I've ever seen.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST



    I thought he was just scanning it again for something, but I suppose that you could be correct.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Genesis of the Autons?

    by Peter

    The doctor's prior knowledge of Gangers and what they become was foreshadowed several time. I reckon the plastic Doctor is a red herring and not the one that gets shot in episode 1. Surely it isn't that easy to make brand-new Timelord, replete with regeneration cycles?

  • May 21, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    As for Rory

    by HornOrSilk

    Nothing really needing explained. Even in the Silurian episode last year, he shows he is a hero who cares for others, and will sacrifice himself for them (and not just Amy). It's not that he has any temptation to leave Amy, it is the part of him which made him into a nurse also make him... go out to save people. It's one reason why he is a good companion for the Doctor. Now if only Rory and Hex could meet...

  • May 21, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    And I liked it!

    by Peter

    A little more adult and thoughtful than the average Matt Smith episode. Vintage Who, I thought - more akin to an episode of the original series than the revived one. Surprised to see so many people feeling vaguely let down - I thought it was a class act. Only the swashbuckling third episode has let this series down, and it was a gift for the kiddies after the rather more complex opening two-parter. I've been reading these Docbacks since day one and only just registered. Hello!

  • May 21, 2011, 3:22 p.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, the clone is probably a red herring... however.. I still think Sontarans more than Autons. They are "going out to war." They are clones with cloning like technology similar to what we have seen before. It's early on in their cycle so they have not become what we are used to, which is probably thousands of generations before they figure it is the most stable way. Nonetheless, it does seem the Doctor knows what is up there. It might have nothing to do with any previous foes, but if it were, it's got to be Sontarans. Even the acid suits semi-resemble what Sontarans wear..

  • May 21, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST



    You're in a strange place, standing in a corridor. Your wife, who you love with all of your heart and who you would guard for hundreds of years if needed, begs you to come with her. Behind you are three advancing clones that mean your wife harm. She will have only a door to keep her safe from them. Would you therefore abandon her to help a girl you met within the last hour or so?

  • May 21, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST

    Amy has known the Doctor longer Rory

    by JPKk

    If the Doctor is this idea/imaginary friend in Amy's mind, then she has in all likelihood known him longer than Rory. her whole childhood includes "memories" of her adventures. These are behaviour templates/role models of how she should act. At the very least, Rory has been trying to live up to Amy's expectations that are based on The doctor. No kid, teenager, or adult could overcome this hurdle. Could this be why he entered into a medical career ? Now that is timey-whimey !

  • May 21, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    Many people who think it is their duty to help others will do so, even if their wife is there. It is a part of the job he was doing. Doctors, nurses, military men and women, ect -- many of them have to say "time to work." It goes with the territory -- and again, we saw elements of this Rory in the Silurian episode.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Hi Petermck

    by 2LeggedFreak

    As you'll see from my earlier post I feel the same way about this episode. Christian Bale--yes it may not have been loaded with laughs but it was entirely po-faced:- The Doctors northern accent His accident with his shoes His request for spare shoes "I've got to get to that cockerel before the whole thing blows", stops, smiles beautifically, " I never thought I'd be saying that again !!" Hornorsilk , can't remember what exactly the Doctor said to Amy & Rory that had them questioning him but the general impression was that he knew what he'd find there--i.e. he knew about the almost people before they met them. This is all part of some nefarious Doctor plan. I know its a kids show but I will be disappointed if the gangers are the Deus ex for the Doctor escaping death---just a tad too easy!!

  • May 21, 2011, 3:28 p.m. CST

    mediat spoilers

    by HornOrSilk

    Apparently there is a young Rory this season, too. Who knows who has known the Doctor longer? We might find out that Rory is the one who has known him since.. and infant.. we don't know just yet.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak


  • May 21, 2011, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Moffatt and SPOILERS

    by RogerOThornhill

    It's weird how much Moffatt and the BBC are spoiling the show "officially," even though Moffatt complains about spoilers (he specifically disliked the ending of Day of the Moon getting out) and even though in one interview when he spilled a fair amount about DW he literally only gave out three words about Sherlock. I think there's a fakeout coming somewhere: the official spoilage is meant to lead us in a direction that is ultimately fooling us. Let me limit myself to the things that have been officially spoiled: the clone was officially spoiled, but we have also been told that the Doctor shot in Impossible Astronaut is not a clone; Ep 7 was at one point titled His Darkest Hour; River Song's identity will be revealed in Ep 8; Eps 9 through 13 involve a certain amount of Back to the Future II movement across previously covered ground; the Time Lords are definitively gone but the Master might come back (but not in this season I suspect--it's already too crowded). Moving on to speculation: I have no problem believing that Moffatt knew the general shape of Season 6 when he wrote Season 5, since "Silence will fall" was all over that season; someone mentioned in an earlier week the possibility that Amy put things back "wrong" at the end of Season 5; the recurring eyepatch lady seriously makes me wonder how much of eps 2 through 7 are inside Amy's (hallucinating) head and we're still back in the weird orphanage where she was held in Ep 2. (The girl at the end of Ep 2 regenerated exactly 9 months after the end of Ep 1 [3 months + 6 months]--coincidence or tied to Amy's Schroedingerian pregnancy? Guesses: even if Smith goes on, this season ties up all the loose threads involving Amy, Rory, and River Song. The troubled regeneration, the crack in time and space, the Silence, the clone, Jenny, Amy's child, what River did, all tie in somehow. I suspect somewhere along the line, some combination of these events creates the Valeyard. That, I think, is the reveal at the end of Ep 7, and that's the Big Bad they have to defeat in the back six eps of the season. Hell, we may actually have seen him in some episodes already and not known it, which is why we are going to have to go back though The Lodger, The Victory of the Daleks, etc. My brain hurts.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Doctor Ganger = Valeyard ?

    by JPKk

    "The Valeyard admits his identity as a distillation of the dark side of the Doctor's nature, somewhere between his twelfth and thirteenth incarnations, out to take control over his remaining lives." If Doctor Ganger has all his memories, then he has his dark side. Right?

  • May 21, 2011, 3:37 p.m. CST



    Can a Stargate make someone pregnant? If Jack O'Neill bent over in front of one with his pants down whilst it was doing its modem thing, would he then be with child?

  • May 21, 2011, 3:39 p.m. CST

    rogerothornhill *spoilers*

    by HornOrSilk

    We are not redoing the Lodger; we are having a continuation of it - baby and Cyberman and all.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:39 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk / 2leggedfreak


    Hornorsilk - You make a good point. I will concede. 2leggedfreak - Yes, I'd forgotten the accent thing. It didn't really work for me but I suppose maybe others might have liked it. Perhaps I'm just in a bad mood tonight.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    The real question: can dicksholder get anyone pregnant?

    by HornOrSilk

    Seems unlikely.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak


  • May 21, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak

    Found this for you, since sex is on your mind tonight:--

  • May 21, 2011, 3:49 p.m. CST

    I'm pretty sure Dicksholder can get someone pregant


    I heard he headbutted his mother between the legs once and his sister arrived nine months later.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:50 p.m. CST


    by FrodoFraggins

    I can't believe they are turning this into a two-parter. When are they going to explain Rivers marriage to the doctor? Stop fucking limping along. Matt Smith is good but he can't raise the material like Tennant could. Moffet has been pretty disappointing overall and seems to have little nostalgia for old Dr. Who.

  • May 21, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST



    That was a scary link, buddy! I liked the summary though. "It's bedtime for Daniel."

  • May 21, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST



    Would you fuck a Stargate if nobody was watching?

  • May 21, 2011, 3:56 p.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak

    yes and yes

  • May 21, 2011, 4:06 p.m. CST

    dioxholster: how do you think baby timelords are made?

    by mistergreen

    The doctor had a mum.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:07 p.m. CST



    If you could either be a Stargate or become popular, which one would you choose?

  • May 21, 2011, 4:16 p.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak

    Interesting that your little bit of imagination there didn't involve you being Jack O'Neill but the Doctor---you see you know you love a bit of Who really.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:17 p.m. CST

    Various... AND SPOILERS...

    by Kelvington

    petermck - Welcome! hornorsilk - Nice catch there... Sontarans... I like that! And you are right their amour does look a little Sontaran like. Very nice. Oddly given the choice to save Amy or Sarah Smart I would be stuck. Have always had a huge crush on her. SPOILER - as for my thought that they ARE ALL GANGERS... the editor of the episode said during the confidential, "...and then you sort of turn the page, and you realize that every single one of them has been doubled" This occurs at the 25 minute mark. He didn't say, "most of them have been doubled" he says, "every single one of them". Now I won't make a bet on this, because I'm not sure here, but I'm about 80% confident that when the episode ends there will be a whole set of them to deal with. Then you have to wonder, can a ganger get pregnant?

  • May 21, 2011, 4:19 p.m. CST

    mistergreen... yes he had a mum, and she was human...

    by Kelvington

    Which is the only thing I truly hate about the TV movie. But I could fix it! I know exactly how to fix it.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Eh, stop with the Sontaran nonsense.

    by V'Shael

    This has nothing to do with Sontarans. The Sontarans have been at war with the Rutans for millennia, long before this episode took place. They're from Sontar. They are all clones of a great military general, and have nothing to do with humans. It was bad enough when people saw a vaguely similar suit and started theorising Sontarans back in the Season 6 trailer. But now when it should be clear to everyone that they're not in this two parter, we have to deal with Sontaran origin theories as well? No. Just no.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:30 p.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    Do we know where and when we are in this episode? And though they have been fighting for a long time we also know they have some level of time travel technology, so that can be a part of the war. And, if you follow the BF audios (which gets nods from the production company), there are actually many different models of Sontarans. Anyway, the point is, with degradation of the cloning process, and their warlike nature, it can be a foundation for the society which would later develop into the full blown Sontarans.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Good luck to any Middle Tennesseans reading this!


    I hear that the Cicadas have returned after thirteen years and are making a nuisance of themselves! Bad times.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:37 p.m. CST

    by Seph_J

    tittytwister: Tennant jumping out of a ship and plummeting into the Naismith mansion is about as physically fucked up as he gets... bit of blood, few scratches, torn clothes. petermck: welcome to the docback. A very pleasant place to hang out, except for dickholder, who secretly wants to be accepted anyway) hornorsilk mate, Genesis of the Sontarans - nice idea. Wouldn't it be good if this did turn out to be more than just 45 minutes of rather dull nothingness where we all knew EVERYTHING that was going to happen within the first 4 minutes. Unless Kelv is right and the doctor did intend for the fleshdoc to be created. I didn't get that vibe personally. The doc definitely intended to come here, for a reason as yet unknown, and theres certainly more going on that we yet know.... but not sure if the clonedoc was intentional. Hmm. Hornorsilk, all I heard was this: Rory: "what are you talking about we've never been here before." Amy: "We came here by accident" Doc: "Accident? Yes I know, accident." Rory: "ahhh ah ahh" Doc: "Acid, they're pumping acid off the side and thats old stuff..."

  • May 21, 2011, 4:39 p.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    yeh, you mean just like with the cybermen? Listen. just cos of Mondas mate, never underestimate Trig from only fools and horses.....

  • May 21, 2011, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Anyone else getting a bit fed up with... (*SPOILERS FOR THIS EPISODE*)


    ..the Positive / Negative pregnancy scan? I think it's the third time that this has been shown now, as though the audience needs constant reminding about it. Either resolve it or don't show it. I can remember what happened within the last four weeks, thanks.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST

    the question is...

    by emeraldboy

    where is the season of dr who actually leading? it seems so unlike season 5 which all about the slience and the pandorica, when you look back at it. and there was moffat's promise about who was river song? the rebel flesh had good premise but ended up a clanger episode. its all going to get very confusing if after next week we discover that there is not only a ganger dr but maybe even a ganger rory and amy. the human rory, amy and dr. vs the ganger rory, amy and dr. one unanswered question how were rory and able to pick up messages from sexy. rory being robot yes, but amy, that was not explained.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:46 p.m. CST

    my friend turned to me aksed that question about...

    by emeraldboy

    the whole amy pregancy thing. and i really couldnt give him a satisfactory answer.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST

    There is much we don't know

    by HornOrSilk

    And so we don't know where it is going. That can be a good thing or bad, depending upon where we end up. It would be great if there are clues which we can easily pick up the second time around watching it (like Babylon 5), but I fear that might not be the case.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:50 p.m. CST



    You are my third favorite Irishman after James Joyce and Daniel Day Lewis. I... just wanted you to know that.

  • May 21, 2011, 4:55 p.m. CST

    by christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by emeraldboy

    wow. I am speechless.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:02 p.m. CST

    I hope moffat has a plan...

    by emeraldboy

    and knows where he is going. if not this show is in deep trouble.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:05 p.m. CST



    After seeing how everything came together last season, I'm 100% certain that Moffat has a plan. He was talking about River Song on Twitter recently and he's really confident about that storyline. I think we're all going to be genuinely surprised by whatever revelations he has stored up for us.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Moffat CERTAINLY has a plan and I think

    by Seph_J

    the way he's approached his time as showrunner as to treat the whole series as he treated the single episode of Blink. If you broke Blink up into 13 small sections, and watched one of them, you'd be like "what the fuck? where is this going?!".... but put them all together, engage your brain a little bit, and he blows you away. I still watch Pandorica Opens/Big Bang and marvel at how he tied so much up in one story. There isn't a wasted line in that finale. Quite impresive.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Yes, there is a plan

    by HornOrSilk

    The question is not if he has one; but how well executed it is. One of the problems with mysteries is to make sure one tells enough but not too much; I fear we might be seeing "too little," which is always a crutch in writing. You must have everything "there" for one to catch, but it doesn't have to be easy to catch (Gene Wolfe is the perfect example of this). Nonetheless, we know there are clues, just how much and what they mean, hopefully, will fit together properly.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:11 p.m. CST

    "Anyone else getting a bit fed up with..."


    Oh boy ... Yes. Its like they think we are stupid and need regular slaps around the back of the head.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:26 p.m. CST

    no I think the pregnant/not pregnant thing

    by Seph_J

    has REALLY bothered the doc, and he's working on finding it out. Secret like. And that's what this is all about. He looks at the scanner every episode because that's his motivation for where he's taken us....

  • May 21, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    btw - top of the talkbacks again!

    by Seph_J

  • May 21, 2011, 5:31 p.m. CST

    ehhh, this week's episode was a bit flat.

    by mistergreen

  • It just didn't seem like it needed to be a two part story, unless something very weird happens in part two. And, yes, weirder than a Doctor ganger. And, maybe it just me, (And, others) but, it sure looked like the Doctor created a ganger of himself on purpose. As for the Sontaran connection, if there is one, three things about the ganger are similar to the Sontarans, 1) their look when not holding human form, 2) the acid suits that look (again) similar the uniforms worn by the Sontarans. 3) Their desire to go to war with the humans. Who knows, maybe the makeup and costume department are just trying to save money by reusing what they already have available.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:44 p.m. CST

    Four, axcel

    by HornOrSilk

    The cloning tanks are similar... and of course, five, Martha Clone... which shows the tanks can connect, somehow, to humans as well... Of course, it is also possible the source of the flesh is from the Sontarans... we really have not learned that part of the story, have we?

  • May 21, 2011, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Have not read over the DocBack yet

    by MoffatBabies

    Well.. at least not since the hour it aired. But my immediate impression from this one was very positive. The only dodgy effect was the long cg neck with the head attached. But it wasn't *too* terrible. Thought the story was interesting, writing was good (would hate to be the guy following a Gaiman episode) and the cinematography was decent, created a decent mood. Rory was especially good this time out. Especially when he was told that Amy was a "lucky girl", his reaction was perfect. Eyepatch lady needs to pay off and do it soon, at least a tiny bit. And I am getting impatient regarding the regenerating kid. I know, I know, we're not far in enough for me to get impatient. Oh well. There it is anyway.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:48 p.m. CST

    And congrats

    by MoffatBabies

    on getting the top spot yet again. Should be that way. Great show, great fans.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:49 p.m. CST

    And yes, it's not the greatest episode... but I feel and hope

    by HornOrSilk

    Something big happens in the next episode, which is why it is a two parter... it might have been best as a 1 1/2 parter so to speak, and so this week, slowed down a bit... who knows.. will find out next week.

  • May 21, 2011, 5:50 p.m. CST

    And... spoilers

    by HornOrSilk We do know at least one Sontaran is in the series. It could all be "alliance" connected... but still.. it leaves room for a Sontaran cliff-hanger leading to episode 7 maybe?

  • May 21, 2011, 5:54 p.m. CST

    Thanks to all!

    by Peter

    For the warm welcome. I really enjoy reading more civilised talkbacks. V'shael, while you are certainly correct on the prior history of the Sontarans, the new series hasn't been afraid to be quite revisionist with Doctor Who canon - notably with the origin of the Cybermen. Nothing stopping them doing that again. The reason I reckon it's Autons is that I don't remember Sontaran clones being made of plastic! But the Autons are. Wikipedia says that the "Nestenes animate the Autons by means of telepathic projection. When duplicated, the originals are kept alive to maintain the copy". Sounds pretty close. Perhaps the material that Gangers are made of is part of the Nestene consciousness? Can't believe I'm 40 years old and just wrote that! Perhaps it's nothing, but the Doctor DID express some knowledge of where it will all lead, and I guess we're going to get an explanation next week. As it's my first time here, I should mention that "my" Doctor was Tom Baker. Loved Tennant, though - he had an ability to switch from the lighter material to serious gravitas, which I thought was excellent. Matt Smith is very good, but I find the constant levity undermines the dramatic impact, sometimes. He's very Troughton, isn't he?

  • May 21, 2011, 5:55 p.m. CST

    more speculative spoilers

    by HornOrSilk

    I didn't read this until now, but it seems to connect to my idea that this is the Genesis of the Sontarans: In episodes five and six (the second two-parter of Series 6), the Doctor will face a thrilling and terrifying dilemma the like of which he’s never seen before. And apparently the Doctor has some flashbacks to his visit to Skaro in Genesis of the Daleks in the second half of the story. Steven Moffat hinted this awhile back in DWM: Would you like to peek inside a cupboard that will chill your blood, or meet a workforce that will haunt your dreams? Not sure about the cupboard, but the workforce hints sound like it belongs to this episode. --- I think the ending might be the first Sontaran or something coming out.. and the Doctor doesn't want to commit genocide... maybe. Who knows?

  • May 21, 2011, 6:01 p.m. CST

    petermck / horn

    by Seph_J

    petermck: which could be why Rory seems to have sympathy for the Gangers... being a nestene creation himself, supposedly. hornorsilk: if this is indeed Genesis of the Sontarans, it needs to be pretty damned fantastic next week to make up for todays ep. AND it's all going to get a bit messy if this Sontaran story ends up dominating the mid-season cliffhanger, and not the timelord-girl/Amy's baby/Doctor got shot/who is River Song/why are so many little things wrong in the world plots!

  • May 21, 2011, 6:04 p.m. CST

    Some other people are saying...

    by HornOrSilk

    Rory is coming in and out of existence. I don't know.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:05 p.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    What's been said is the end of part six is supposed to be an "OMG" moment, and then the cliffhanger trumps that many times over. So let's hope both are true.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Why not the Nestene

    by HornOrSilk

    The Nestene are a group consciousness which can and will use ANY plastic. No need for vats like that. They duplicate people to take over places but the real entity is like a giant squid

  • I forgot about cloning tanks and the Martha-clone.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST



    ..whether a Ganger version of The Doctor can regenerate? Sure, they're born with clothes and they have memories, but are they exactly alike on a genetic level? These things can barely hold themselves together. I think we have a Gangerdoc in order to make people think "Ah! So that's who we saw die in The Impossible Astronaut!" but it's a red-herring. I don't believe Gangerdoc can regenerate, much like the shot Doctor began to. Canton told us that the dead man on the beach was "most certainly The Doctor" and I believe him (even though I don't yet know how he could be so sure of that fact).

  • May 21, 2011, 6:33 p.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    Jenny was a clone... she died and (whilst she didn't regenerate per se) she certainly went on living when she shouldn't have. Plus, the writer of todays episode beat us BAM over the BAM head with the BAM BAM BAM line that the guy who died had a heart BAM a human heart BAM BAM even with a aorta etc. Which makes me think that FleshDoc will have BAM two hearts BAM BAM just like a timelord BAM BAM BAM!!!! ARRRGHHH MAKE IT SUBTLE PLEASE. But I agree. Making the Doctor Who died on the beach the clone would be low... below even the writer of Fear Her I think...

  • May 21, 2011, 6:34 p.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    Well, it depends upon what is going on. We know a cloned daughter of the Doctor can... on the other hand, we know a Doctor with memories can be made who will not be able to regenerate... so.. well, I don't know. I think it won't be able to regenerate since it is not a pure copy of the original.

  • May 21, 2011, 6:36 p.m. CST

    More speculation on the Doctor's death

    by borisblank

    It seems unlikely the Ganger Doctor will be the one to take the fall in the Impossible Astronaut. Too obvious. I can't help but wonder whether we'll discover it's the real Doctor that died, with the Ganger carrying on in his stead. It's a lame resolution, yet one I could picture Moffat getting all smug about. River will probably be the one to pull the trigger on the Doctor's instruction. If true, half of fandom will kiss Moffat's **** while the other half will switch off and never come back. :-)

  • May 21, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Been rewatching in the hope of finding

    by Seph_J

    Sontaran shaped clues.... but they are few. I SUPPOSE the hole in the bath where the pours into it looks like the vent on the back of a Sontarans neck (possibly later on they fill the suits up with flesh which become Sontarans? - lame though). I've also been looking very carefully at the hands of the Gangers, as Sontarans should, by rights, have only 3 fingers, but hope... all fingers accounted for. The hot Ganger was called JENNIFER LUCAS by the way. Thought JENNY was an interesting choice of name for a clone. Sure theres nothing in that though.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Amy breathe

    by HornOrSilk

    I saw someone point out that this seems connected to the whole mid-wife aspect of the story... it was interesting she was told this.. out of nowhere.. the next time made sense, but not the first..

  • May 21, 2011, 7:16 p.m. CST

    Not all Sontarans have the same number of digits

    by HornOrSilk


  • May 21, 2011, 7:19 p.m. CST

    I've not read Pureblood

    by HornOrSilk

    What does this mean: "The original Sontarans appeared ganglier and more like Humans. (DWM: Pureblood) " ?

  • May 21, 2011, 7:24 p.m. CST

    I think the key... (SPOILERS)

    by Kelvington

    is the fact the Doctor realized he was out for up to an hour, more than long enough to replace everyone. It also occurs to me that they might have been gangers from the time they arrived. With that odd bit of dialog at the beginning. As for the killing a clone in TIA, I suppose it works, and it makes some sense, but it seems "all to easy", and weak writing. So I don't think it's that, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Doctor comes back here and makes a clone that could be killed, later in the series. Just think in two short weeks time, we are sooo going to be screaming at our sets because we have only three and half months to wait to see what's really going on.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:30 p.m. CST

    Ummm... no one's mentioned that...

    by dj_bollocks

    this is a BLUE bow tie episode...... The Red Bow tie and Blue Bow tie conspiracy continues...

  • May 21, 2011, 7:35 p.m. CST

    Could a ganger be the last human?

    by Kelvington

    Did anyone already mention this? But while making the ganger, they did look a lot like Cassandra the last human for a moment. But Sarah is not nearly flat enough. :)

  • May 21, 2011, 7:36 p.m. CST

    I thought Jenny Lucas was very attractive...

    by Seph_J

    ...even as a Ganger... err...

  • May 21, 2011, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Pogue, did you have a listen to the cues

    by Seph_J

    I was on about? What did you think?

  • The Doctor used his psychic paper ID Wallet to explain why he (and Amy and Rory) were there. Now, am I wrong, I thought the psychic paper was either taken away from him or destroyed when he tried to use it on someone who wasn't fooled by it. Am I right or wrong? (I know, the Doctor could have made another one if the original one was lost or taken.) That just seemed strange to me, only because he hasn't used it in a long time. I know, a minor thing, but, that stood out to me when it happened.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Psychic Paper

    by HornOrSilk

    It seemed to "fizz" out once, but didn't mean he couldn't get more.

  • May 21, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    On the other hand

    by HornOrSilk

    It could indicate timey-wimey things connected to the Christmas Carol..

  • May 21, 2011, 7:57 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Could you please tell me where you got your episode? My download was screwed up and the last 10 minutes were unwatchable :( I still haven't seen the end :(

  • May 21, 2011, 7:59 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Don't worry, there are no Tennesseans reading this. A bit above their reading level, I'd suspect ;) (Calm down, I have family in Tennessee, I'm allowed to make fun of them! ;) )

  • May 21, 2011, 8:20 p.m. CST

    OOOh, it was the ganger Doctor that died in the future.

    by mistergreen

  • May 21, 2011, 8:20 p.m. CST

    oh dear.

    by Seph_J

  • May 21, 2011, 8:22 p.m. CST

    axcel1 you aren't wrong... just less right. :)

    by Kelvington

    I think what you are thinking of with psychic paper was when he tried to use it on the fish-girls (vampires) in Venice, when he pulled out his old library card instead of his psychic paper. It's one of those things from the RTD era that I'm glad isn't over used in the SM years. If memory serves it's comes from the Troughton era and was invented by the CIA... the Celestial Interventions Agency... not the other one.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:47 p.m. CST

    re:mister green

    by thedarklingthrush

    yeah because the show would be that easy to figure out.

  • May 21, 2011, 8:52 p.m. CST

    Finished watching on Space -A review and a question

    by JPKk

    While it wasn't perfect - I had trouble following the dialogue at times - it is a good opener to a two-parter. I think it would play better as one long mini-movie. The cliff-hanger ending is well done, but lacks a sense of impossible odds. You aren't left with a OMG what are they going to do now feeling. Rather it is just the next step in the rising action of the plot. it was creepy, but the camera work did not build tension as effectively as it could have. A few more rapid cuts and reverse point of views would have taken it up a notch. Rory is portrayed as a concerned everyday hero. The average person who will put concern for others above his own interests when faced with a difficult situation. He does this out of moral strength rather than inflated heroism. Is it possible that all of them are doubles ? Could the real Doctor and Companions be now stuck in the Tardis ?

  • May 21, 2011, 9:04 p.m. CST

    Episode Review. And the Valeyard Is ...

    by veteran_of_mu

    I think it is becoming obvious that these things as produced need to be 60 minutes long. In particular every episode this season has seemed to skimp on character development. The characters appear and almost immediately know who Rory, Amy and the Dr are. As people I mean - they don't know they're time travellers. It was odious in the pirate episode. But this time it seemed just pathetic, like Moffat saying we should expect a bunch of "red shirt" characters will relate to our heroes because, hey, anyone can tell they're heroes. As for the rest of the thing, yes, Amy needs to die. Quickly, mercifully, and permanently. No Rose-like returns from the dead. Really, that's enough of her. A goggle-eyed look, a pout, a sneer - that's all this pathetic actress knows how to do. No one cares about her character any more. And ... Matt Smith's doctor was so much better last season than this. The trouble is Smith is spending too much time reading his own reviews. His Doctor has stopped growing. What was funny is now just sad. What was noble is now vain. If anyone needs a big boot up the backside it's him. As for the Valeyard ... he "appears between" the 12th and 13th regenerations. But that doesn't mean he isn't Dr 8. And ... it will really suck if understanding what's going on means that I have to go back and actually watch the damned Colin Baker episodes. Couldn't stand to watch 5 minutes of a CB episode. The thought of suffering through the lot of them is just too much to bear.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:12 p.m. CST

    It was okay

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    While the gangers look suitably disturbing, they don't seem to have the terrifying impact that the Silence had. I'm not sure if it was how the gangers were portrayed or how the episode's script was written, but the gangers didn't seem very threatening at all. You could have replaced them with normal disgruntled work employees and the effect would have been the same. Maybe if they had gone the route kind of similar to Midnight, where everyone's locked into a tight space, and unable to tell who exactly is a ganger--that'd be equally cliche as to what happened in tonight's episode, but at least it'd have more tension. Frankly, tonight's episode was boring. Definitely watchable, but still boring. Although, I would have liked it if they didn't telegraph the Doctor's clone as obviously as they did. I can just imagine the hilarious scenarios that will ensue from having the Doctor converse with himself. And was the Doctor's comment about the cockerel some reference to anything we know about? I was confused about it in conjunction with him telling Amy to breathe.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Gangers were intended to be creepy & sympathetic

    by JPKk

    I think the problem is expecting the monster of the week to be a monster. The point is they are not. They are not just disgruntled workers. They represent the slaves / immigrant worker. The not one of us, therefore not human characters that science fiction has used before.

  • I don't always have a good memory when it comes to Who "events". Now, i may have to rewatch that episode, one of the better ones, I thought.


  • May 21, 2011, 9:33 p.m. CST


    by Deandome

    I'm only 10 min into this ep, but I'm just reflecting on how familiar this theme of "Doctor & friends dropping in on a mining/drilling team & digging for things that will bite them in the ass" is. I think this is the third/fourth one in the 'modern era', and I recall several others going back to the Times of Tom Baker, too. Is it just a budget sets? Or are they 'mining' the theme that I think was first broached in the original Star Trek, when tiny organisms were killing a mining crew that didn't know they were destroying this unknown life-form.

  • Gee, I wonder where that came from? LOL LOL LOL You, sir, on the other hand have a very good memory!

  • May 21, 2011, 9:35 p.m. CST

    Lois & Jimmy Syndrome

    by JPKk

    Our expectations of companions runs up against the Lois & Jimmy syndrome. Doctor Who, like many superheroes, needs someone less super in their lives that the audience can relate with and make the superhero more human and accessible. This is especially true of superheroes with alien/remarkable characteristics. Technically the narrative is always about the hero. All the other characters are defined by the hero, while at the same time they are adding an emotional hook to the hero. That's what that Amy intro that we suffer through in Canada and the U.S. is all about. As others have noted the amount of time given to other characters is not enough. They writers are trying to write a hero-centric narrative, while many of us want a more sophisticated ensemble piece.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Lois & Jimmy Syndrome

    by JPKk

    I'll try this again. I keep writing posts then get a message there was an error sending. I think our expectations for character development and the role of the companions keeps running up against the Lois & jimmy syndrome. The Doctor, like many superheroes, needs characters that make him more accessible. This is especially true of a superhero who is alien/ extraordinary origin.These characters add an emotional hook to the hero and often act as a window into the hero's world. That is why we have those Amy intro's here in Canada and the U.S. The companions are there to enrich the character of the hero. The narrative is all about the hero. It is hero-centric. We are expecting a more sophisticated character development, but the writers are producing hero-centric narratives, not ensemble pieces. The length of each episode combined with the limited number of episodes emphasizes the weakness in how the characters are used.

  • May 21, 2011, 9:58 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Dammit. I tried them... that was either a stuck-at-99.2% one or the file extension my computer didn't recognize one :\

  • then, do a search.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:14 p.m. CST

    Have we been barking up the wrong silence...?

    by Perigee

    Y'know, something has been pestering at me for a while now. Remember our favorite Fish Vampires? And, yaay, we win and off we go again. And then ALL THE SOUND goes out of the world. And then we get "The Silence will fall..." And now - what do we have? Some goofy MIBS who distinctly Do Not have the ability to suck the sound out of anyplace. What worries me about this is that playing this whole "Woo, Genius Moff With Multi-Season Arcs" stuff may be a little... Off. What if the "Silence" we started out with was replaced with "The Silents" we've ended up with? I mean, that would be a pretty big freaking deal, when you think about it. Everybody you ran into in series five intoning seriously about the horror of "The Silence Will Fall." OOOOoooh. And did they really mean, "And you will cause all the ugly guys in suits to be killed?" Who CARES??????? Why would the Fish Lady Care? Why Would Prisoner Zero Care? What's the big damn deal, here...??? Ahem. I guess what I'm saying is, either the Silents aren't The Silence, or the crack in the universe is our expectation that Moff isn't LOSTing by the seat of his pants. I am concerned.

  • Like I said, you have a very good memory. Keep in mind, I only said that because no one here is right or wrong, just less right than me!! Just kidding! Everyone here is right.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Does anyone else see this coming:

    by Cap'n Jack

    ...The 'ganger' Doctor is the one killed in the 1st episode by the astronaut.

  • May 21, 2011, 10:43 p.m. CST


    by berserkrl

    "even though in one interview when he spilled a fair amount about DW he literally only gave out three words about Sherlock." Okay, but to be fair, those three words were fairly massive spoilers.

  • May 21, 2011, 11 p.m. CST

    what 3 words?

    by Cap'n Jack

  • May 21, 2011, 11:14 p.m. CST

    perigee. I agree

    by History101

    Something seems off. Are we watching that old 3 cups and a ball game and getting misdirected?

  • May 21, 2011, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Interim episode

    by solvseus

    Disappointing, but if seen like the inbetweener episode it was, not as bad. Like the Tron sequel. A setup for something coming, bashing you over the head with what's already happening. I suspect if one watches the next episode, and it pays off the setup, it will seem better. I did like Rory though. Same thing, kinda bashing you over the head with it all, but it suits him perfectly. He's trying to be noble, obviously is jealous of the Doctor and wants someone to need him and appreciate him, which he doesn't feel Amy is doing. Not only that, and the nurse thing which we keep being reminded of as well, but it seemed like he was acting sort of fatherly. Anyone else notice that? Amy might have been getting a little jealous all the sudden herself (and she obviously doesn't like it), but she also sees how unselfishly caring he can be. He was acting more like a father or big brother, without the condescension the Doctor shows, or the (dare I say it) detached standoffishness he can come off as at times (for obvious reasons). And the best part, it all feels natural to the character instead of just shoehorned in as it could have been. I'm actually liking Rory, sappiness and all, when I didn't think I would before. Empathize with him I guess.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:17 a.m. CST

    How do The FOunders feel about all of this?

    by Perigee

  • May 22, 2011, 12:19 a.m. CST

    A Timelord that sleeps in a bucket?

    by Perigee

    That final reveal kept making me think.. I know that face... Charles Nelson Reilly? And then, Wham! Odo they didn't!

  • May 22, 2011, 12:34 a.m. CST

    A workman episode - nothing spectacular

    by DoctorTom

    I suspect that the "scary" stuff will be more in the next episode. <br> <br> SPOILERS <br> <br> I know we're supposed to think that it's the OdoDoctor that gets in in TIA. We're told that it's not a clone, but Delaware might have been lying at the Doctor's orders. Of course, it would be more interesting if it was the real Doctor that was shot AND the OdoDoctor in the astronaut suit. <br> Of course, the Flesh being able to duplicate people made me think (like others) of the Autons, but they didn't have time travel (at least before the Alliance was formed). It's interesting that the Flesh duplicated the Doctor. At that point it made me think of the Looms that are talked about in the New Adventures books. Genesis of the Time Lords?

  • May 22, 2011, 12:43 a.m. CST

    @cap'n jack

    by berserkrl

    "what 3 words?" Adler. Hound. Reichenbach.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:25 a.m. CST

    Six additional words.

    by Perigee

    Pop. Six. Squish. Uh-uh. Cicero. Lipshitz.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:45 a.m. CST

    On the subject of SHERLOCK...


    I wish Moffat was writing the Hound episode and not Gatiss. As much as Gatiss managed to surprise me with his SHERLOCK episode last season, a Mofatt version of Hound Of The Baskervilles would be epic.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Perfectly acceptable episode I thought.

    by Gabba-UK

    However it would be unfair to list any criticism just yet till next weeks conclusion. But it wasn't bad by any means. Strange thing is however is that I'm now seeing the TARDIS in a whole new light. Not many shows that after 40 years, to borrow an American phrase, can throw a curve ball at your preconceptions about it.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:54 a.m. CST



    Jenny wasn't really a clone of The Doctor, as such. She was born from his genetic code and the Progenation Machine created her to be his direct descendant. She therefore possessed all of the same abilities as The Doctor. Ganger Doctor is merely a duplicate, akin to the Autons, except made from The Flesh instead of plastic. As we can see from the way in which their form barely holds together, The Gangers aren't perfect replicas. That's why I don't believe Gangerdoc would regenerate.

  • May 22, 2011, 2:50 a.m. CST


    by Bumpasses Dawg

    So we had a good thing going didn't we? Doctor Who running in the UK and the USA on the same day. It was nice, paying for HD Dish coverage and enjoying the show without fear of being spoiled, or having to search it out on the internet like in years past. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! You jackwads at BBC America have to assume EVERYONE will be at Memorial Day parties next weekend, and too busy to DVR your programming, so you delay us by a week, even as the show continues running in the UK!!! WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU???? WE ARE SICK OF BEING SPOILED ON CLIFFHANGERS!!!!! Did you not hear the recent news that MASSIVE numbers of people RECORDING Doctor Who and watching it later the night or the next day? Well kiss that goodbye as I don't RECORD REPEATS. And that's JUST what Doctor Who will be when you finally air it. OLD NEWS, as it will have been pirated, viewed on the web, and spoiled to death by then. Pull your heads out of your programming asses and move your technological awareness out of the 1960's. ASS HATS. }:-(

  • May 22, 2011, 3:22 a.m. CST

    They do this same bloody episode every single year

    by rosasaks

    TARDIS goes to a military base where a crew of scientists are over-confident about their dangerous experiment, just as an alien force begins to take over their minds, one by one, and the Doctor must save the day, with his superior intellect.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:32 a.m. CST


    by 2LeggedFreak

    I don't buy this...the shape doesn't look right. But on the other hand the lingering camera shots is a bit suspect. "What don't you buy 2LF-- you rambling idiot" You all ask. Well in another forum somebody has questioned whether that isn't a Tardis in the background at 26.17. Don't buy it and yet ?

  • May 22, 2011, 3:37 a.m. CST

    I was just reading SFX's spoiler-free review of the next episode...


    (Which you can find here: ) ..and it says: "12 Amy voices something that may have been on the veiwers’ minds if they’ve been following the series" Could it be: "Why does Rory keep dying?"

  • May 22, 2011, 3:54 a.m. CST

    @2LF It's not a Tardis. You can see what it is, if you

    by V'Shael

    look at the scenes in more detail. It's a barrel.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:57 a.m. CST

    @HornOSilk - What the Doctor said...

    by V'Shael

    Amy : "So where are these Dusty Springfield loving Monks then?" Doctor : "I think we're here. This is it." Rory : "Doctor what are you talking about? We've never been here before."

  • Yes, we do. Earth, 22nd century. It's says so in the dialog very clearly.

  • May 22, 2011, 4:09 a.m. CST

    v'shael -- where in the episode?

    by HornOrSilk

    I must have missed it; the speakers on my computers are not always best...

  • May 22, 2011, 4:13 a.m. CST

    Ok, apparently early on in the storm?

    by HornOrSilk

  • May 22, 2011, 4:20 a.m. CST

    The Doctor saying breathe to Amy more than once

    by HornOrSilk

    I do think someone (on one of the boards) was right to note this and might want us to make us ponder other "giving birth" like references in the Doctor's words to Amy. The Doctor seems to be speaking in the context of two time lines at once?

  • May 22, 2011, 4:36 a.m. CST

    Re pregnancy

    by board shitlez

    In this series' opening two partner when it ended with the regenerating little girl there are two time jumps in the ep. Amy mentions pregnancy, there's a six months later jump, and a three months later jump. Nine months. The gestation of a human.

  • May 22, 2011, 5:27 a.m. CST

    oh joy! another epi where workers use slaves...

    by tangcameo

    ...who turn out to have minds of their own (well sorta) and turn against the workers/people who use them. *cough*Ood*cough*

  • May 22, 2011, 5:29 a.m. CST

    The one-eyed OB/GYN Amy keeps seeing...

    by tangcameo

    ...they better deepen that somehow because it's getting dull. Or at least have Amy shout "Yknow I can see you!" and have the ob/gyn panic before slamming the door shut.... AGAIN.

  • May 22, 2011, 5:38 a.m. CST

    Just a thought with eye-patch woman

    by HornOrSilk

    What if every time she pops up, something else is happening. Has anyone checked to see if Doctors can be "changed around" each time she pops up? What if she is watching Amy to make sure Amy doesn't see the replacements going on, or something?

  • May 22, 2011, 6:40 a.m. CST

    @HornOrSilk - where it was said, and "Breathe"

    by V'Shael

    It's said by the Doctor just after they meet the gangers in the harness room for the first time, when the leader is explaining that they are military contractors. As for the Doctor telling Amy to "Breath" my own thoughts on that were slightly different. We've seen 11 ask questions since The Eleventh Hour, and then say the answers he's receiving at the exact same time. I've always thought of it as a developing psychic ability, if you like. So I linked his "Breathe" command to what happened later, when the acid was dissolving the floor and releasing gas. He tells her to breathe there as well, and it seemed to be a callback.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:23 a.m. CST

    I didn't see it as psychic or what happened later

    by HornOrSilk

    It really seems to be more like what happens in birthing... we will see if we see more of this

  • May 22, 2011, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Feedback along the timelines

    by Evilmeister

    causing temporal disturbances: saying things that appear unconnected, the eyepatch lady etc *wibbly-wobbly-wavy-lines* I don't care about anyones criticisms, I'm enjoying the ride :D Thankfully I'm going on holiday for a week but will be back for next weeks show. I'll be spoiler free for the first time in years!!

  • May 22, 2011, 7:46 a.m. CST

    This season's Silurian two parter then?

    by TheFerretLives

    I have no doubt in Moffat's (or is it Moffatt?) writing ability or ability to plot out a complex and interesting series arc but I have my doubts in his abilities to see the quality - or lack of - in other people's scripts. Obviously not when it comes to Neil Gaiman, Simon Nye and Richard Curtis but seemingly for two parters like this one and last years' Silurian one. Is he contractually obliged to take scripts from these people? Or is he too close to the series and the arc he has in place to see the episodes objectively? And if next week's episode is good and makes up for this one then again it begs the question whether it should've been made a two parter in the first place where other single episodes that seemed too crammed could've done with a second part. I get the feeling this is a two parter so we can get a whole episode of two doctor badinage and they wanted to end with the so-called cliff hanger that everyone knew would happen anyway. I also think if it turns out to be the start of the Sontarans then again it would be neat but because so many have already guessed it it is hardly the OMG ending they've hinted at. Perhaps the Doctor kills the 'ganger at the end and that is the surprise because it means it can't be him that gets shot in Impossible Astronaut? Again most of us have guessed that is a red herring. Or perhaps the 'ganger kills or somehow immobilises the real Doc and takes his place? Again not very original. I take it the changing of the boots will become relevant in determining the docs apart later as will that heavily signposted sneeze! It sounds plausible what someone said about the doc and the companions being in the sinking Tardis and everyone is a 'ganger. Again not original, DS9 did this in Whispers and I'm sure there's more, also the missing hour when loads of things could've happened and we'll probably end up going back to sounds like both a Next Gen episode and Red Dwarf's Thanks For The Memory! F

  • May 22, 2011, 7:53 a.m. CST

    I think he's willingly sacrificing episodes

    by Seph_J

    to play to the kids. They can't all be 'The Doctor's Wife' and 'Blink'. He needs to juggle a massive audience, and while the Silurians contributed nothing to last series, they did sell toys. Likewise, there'll be plenty of cool Ganger 'doctor' figures floating around the shops today. Which is fine. As a kid I would have loved every episode, and wouldn't have distinguised between a Fear Her and a Midnight. Moffat needs to appeal to everyone, pleasing all audiences. And as long as he throws in the simpler more generic stories, like yesterday, and the Hungry Earth etc. he'll do that. Yesterday was the antidote to The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon - which a lot of dumb people said "errgh I don't get it??"

  • May 22, 2011, 7:53 a.m. CST

    Well I liked the Silurian two parter.

    by V'Shael

    Any story which shows humanity in a flawed, savage, violent, brutal, deceitful light is welcome in my book. We ARE the bad guys here. I never liked Tennant when he went on so blindly about how great humanity is. We have so far to go before anyone could consider us a great species. I like the fact that in this two-parter, once again the humans are the bad guys and the Gangers in this case, are the ones I would root for. It's a shame that by watching Confidential, it appears that many of the people working on the show don't get that this is the case.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    the ferretlives

    by 2LeggedFreak

    You see this is where budget doesn't just impact on what is on screen it impacts off screen as well. I remember a rumour that on Star Trek TNG they had a process that rejected mountains of scripts as just not good enough..I don't think Moffatt has got the resource or the writers to make this happen so its a little more of a cottage industry with all that entails. Having said that, until the Borg turned up, TNG was an object lesson in boring the shit out of people so more doesn't necessarily mean better.

  • May 22, 2011, 8:04 a.m. CST

    Oh and Sontarans did look different before...

    by TheFerretLives

    .. on the 6th doc episode The Two Doctors they looked like people wearing very very bad rubbery masks. F

  • May 22, 2011, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Just a thought...

    by Peter

    ..what is the next episode ended and you're not sure WHICH Doctor steps into the Tardis and dematerialises away onto the next adventure. What if it was intentionally left ambiguous? That could be fun. Reminds me of the end of The Thing, where we didn't know if MacCready, Childs or no one was the "thing".

  • May 22, 2011, 8:36 a.m. CST

    pogue_mahone & frozen01

    by Merrick

    You're most welcome. It is truly a pleasure.

  • May 22, 2011, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Moffatt's two leading men up against each other..

    by TheFerretLives

    .. in the best actor category in tonights Bafta TV awards. Matt Smith for Doctor Who and Benedict Cumbernatch for Sherlock. Who would you like to see win? I don't really want to pick between them so in a way I hope someone else wins. If forced to choose I'd say Matt Smith because although I think Cumbernatch is brilliant I think Smith just pips him and also Sherlock is only three specials Matt has a lot more work to do. Plus although Cumbernatch had to live up to a fictional giant Matt Smith had to step into the shoes of a lot of people's favourite Doctor. Other shows I'd like to see win tonight are Being Human and Misfits, especially Robert Sheehan. Doctor Who wise Catherine Tate is also up for an award for her short Christmas film for Sky One. F

  • May 22, 2011, 8:40 a.m. CST

    The shows ethnic diversity has taken a battering.

    by Smashing

    Since Moff took over it's been a pure white fest of lead roles, apart from Liz 10 in his second episode, apart from that no ethnic diversity at all, it's 2011 BBC and we're no longer a just white nation, please again reflect this. Lame episode, some funny moments, overall the show is in trouble, listing from extremes of story telling and a blinkered fan base who can't/wont see the quality decline. A real shame as MS is the best Doc we've ever had.

  • May 22, 2011, 8:52 a.m. CST

    Merrick :(

    by shibleybc

    I love it here too! :)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:01 a.m. CST

    "overall the show is in trouble"

    by TheFerretLives

    It is this kind of knee-jerk fanboy reaction that is scaring tv execs and creatives into either cancelling shows before they've had a chance to grow or settle or make them jump the shark to keep the geeks happy. Look what happened to The Event, a perfectly decent show that started to lose viewers so they went off air for months, came back almost completely different and then self-combusted. Also shows like No Ordinary Family showed promise and could've developed nicely with a few tweaks. Remember when series like Angel, Next Generation and DS9 had ropey first seasons but were allowed to settle into themselves? The first season of Buffy wasn't too hot either, its second season defined it but if it was made today it would probably never be renewed. Stop writing show's eulogies just because of one episode! Can you not remember that the Doctor's Wife was only an episode before? F

  • May 22, 2011, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Wrong Smashing


    Guido - "The Vampires Of Venice" Doctor Chaudhry - "Hungry Earth / Cold Blood" Facts, dear boy. Important to any argument.

  • May 22, 2011, 9:12 a.m. CST

    @Smashing - You're just wrong on so many levels.

    by V'Shael

    CBTML has already pointed out your mistakes on the ethnicity department. As for the show being in trouble, the ratings are excellent and the more important AI (audience Appreciation Index) remains very very very high. Just because YOU don't like the show, don't extrapolate that to the rest of the nation/world. Your opinion is in the minority.

  • May 22, 2011, 9:28 a.m. CST


    by Merrick

    And it is awesome to have you with us :)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:33 a.m. CST



    When are you publishing your list of DOCTOR WHO episodes that got you into the show? You mentioned it four weeks ago.

  • May 22, 2011, 9:47 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Different strokes for different folks. I still say that these past two series have been much better than what came before (personal opinion, mind you). I've always preferred Moffat's stories, and Tennant wasn't my favorite. I liked Eccleston better, and now, so too do I prefer Matt Smith. Unfortunately, I was not around the Docbacks during RTD's reign. So I can't say if the fan reaction has tanked, stayed the same, or gone up, but I can say that so far we've had a to-be-expected mixed reaction. A good portion like it, some are on the fence, some (like yourself) think the quality has gone down. I'd hardly call that a "blinkered fan base". It's just a normal difference in opinion and tastes. Regarding the diversity thing... you're comparing four years to 1.5? Hardly fair. By episode 5 of Tennant's first year, how many non-white faces had you seen compared to what was listed above by others? Perhaps I should start complaining about the lack of Americans in RTD's run ;) After all, I've been to London, there are a TON of us over there ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:49 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Ignore shibs, he's just jealous that you'd spoken to me and not him ;) Though I'm sure when he gets back home from iPad shopping his little fanboy heart will explode now that you have! :)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:53 a.m. CST

    2leggedfreak are you guys talking about ...

    by Kelvington

    that barrel shaped thing in background?? That barrel? That thing on the ground that is very barrel-like and very much a barrel? Good god almighty you folks need some glasses. It's NOT the TARDIS it's a one meter tall barell or something. Not even vaguely TARDIS shaped! Nor is it lit nor is it BLUE! Dr. Freud, just because it's longer than it is wide, doesn't make it a TARDIS. Just remember the TARDIS is a living thing as well, can it not be replicated? Oh and for the record, it's not the Rani, not the Valeyard, and it looks nothing like Amy's house... which is also not a TARDIS. :)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:54 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Oooooh, that is a toughie! Well, I hope one of them wins. I'm leaning towards Cumberbatch, just cuz he was really fantastic, but I do see your point, there, and MS has been truly top notch lately. Love Being Human, and Misfits is kind of my guilty pleasure :) I've actually gotten a few women at work into UK Being Human... I lured them in with Mitchell (shameless, I know) and plan on using it as a gateway drug to get them on other British shows ;) Bwahahahaha ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:56 a.m. CST

    LOL Thank you kelvington :P

    by frozen01

    Wonder how many series will have to be digested before shibs'll cough up that 10 quid ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 9:57 a.m. CST

    LOL If Facebook's any indication

    by frozen01

    I think shibley noticed ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Can one of you fuckers

    by Extr3m1st

    Lay out a quick synopsis of what the ongoing clues and mysteries are in the Matt Smith era? I am really lost. I would love for one of you Who geniuses to take me through the first season of Matt Smith and this season and point out all the clues and what is going on in the background so I can feel caught up. I am at a loss unfortunately.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:10 a.m. CST

    Volume Control

    by I am not a number

    Is anyone else having a hard time hearing the dialogue in this series? This year, I find myself having to re-listen to dialogue a couple times to make out what is going on. Not sure if it is the show, or if it is something the SPACE channel is doing. I liked the episode, even if it wasn't all that unique. I like the way they handled the Gangers (the guy whose copy was missing his kid), and thought the stretching neck sequence was pretty disturbing. Also liked the added threat of the acid all over the place. I was a bit nervous that this was going to turn into the Silurian episode of this season (and I still hate the Silurian episode. Flat out dull, and they reduced the Silurians to Star Trek aliens-of-the-week. Not only were they missing a third eye and not telepathic, they didn't even have reptilian eyes. I guess they're just a third type of reptilian, but they're still lame). I hope it isn't going to be an explanation of the Sontarans or Autons though. The show has always portrayed them as alien races, not something that was created by humans.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:15 a.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    thats a tall order, especially for 'fuckers' like us.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:16 a.m. CST

    If someone asked me

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    ...whether I preferred the RTD era or Moffat era, I'd have to go with Moffat. Yes, I love Tennant like half the world's population does, but every time I go back and look at the list of episodes from the first 4 seasons, its seems painfully small. I do think that the show got marvelously better as time went on, but there were just too many mediocre episodes per season to elevate the RTD era to greatness. And honestly, the only good RTD written episodes were Midnight, and Water of Mars, compared to the larger number of Moffat-written stories dispersed throughout the first 4 seasons. At least with S5 and S6, things are a bit more consistent in terms of quality. There haven't been any awful lows like Love and Monsters--the worst we've gotten thus far is The Beast Below and Curse of the Black Spot, and neither is completely unwatchable.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    I know seph

    by Extr3m1st

    I know there are some in here who love this show so much that they wouldn't mind doing this. I went to the BBC Who site and while there is a lot of info there is no real explanation as to the clues and what they are referring to. I just want to try and get caught up. Not looking for definitive answers as no one has them yet (unless there are spoiler answers to upcoming episodes somewhere and I am sure there are). Just a basic outline of clues and what they may mean. And I say fuckers in the most respectful way :)

  • I honestly hope that Moffatt could just send Eccleston's people a few good episodes of the current series and assure him that he doesn't have to kiss a dude or do assinine stories with farting aliens this time around and I think he'd come back for a silent cameo for a regeneration scene or even do a 6 Doctors anniversary episode with McGann, Tennant, Smith and Digitally de-aged Tom and Colin Baker 2 years from now.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:27 a.m. CST

    i am not a number (episode spoilers)

    by frozen01

    Glad I wasn't the only one who got a Silurian episode vibe from the previews :) It still felt very similar... scientists/contractors in a far-flung mine/base in an old church/monastery whose work unintentionally goes wrong, with a misunderstood "alien" race that isn't really alien for the baddie, and a headstrong woman ruining relations between the two by killing someone from the opposite side :)... but it was far better, IMO. That could change with the 2nd part, though. I'm having issues with volume levels as well, and I'm torrenting the eps. For example, in the Doctor's Wife, I didn't hear the TARDIS tell the Doctor she loved him until I watched the Confidential.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:37 a.m. CST

    christian_bale__trashed_my_lights (and ALL)

    by Merrick

    CBTML: Yes - and I apologize for not responding sooner. Sometimes I'm scattered. I'm in the process of putting that piece together now. I was holding that article pending a final decision on the following... ALL: We're coming up on the mid-Season/Series break. Would you like to see these weekly DW Talkbacks continue during the break (which is when, for example, I might run my piece about eps that got me into the show - and perhaps post articles or thought/speculative/remembrance pieces authored by you all if you're interested - etc? )? Or, should the weekly DW Talkbacks rest while the show rests (they'd return on the other side of the mid-Season/Series break)?

  • May 22, 2011, 10:38 a.m. CST

    extr3m1st, I think...

    by Kelvington

    Calling us fuckers makes me less inspired to help you than you can imagine. Whovians, geeks, fanboys, etc.. are perfectly acceptable. Even calling us all dioxholster might have encouraged us to help you with your very poliet request. But fuckers? Really, Really? frozen01 no one is going to give up any money or playsets until SM has long since left the series. However, had PM actually done the voice I would have happily paid the people who bet against me. I typically don't bet, unless I'm 100% sure. Excuses are like assholes, we all have them and they all stink. thecomedian, CE won't be doing GI Joe II, he says he won't go into the same river twice. Although I wonder if VO is considered the same river? The problem with the volume is, and has always been the "mix-down" in the UK, when you listen to the show the music is TOO LOUD and the dialog is too soft, this is mostly because of the way the mix-down is done. Then that error is carried on, or doubled when they make an NTSC version as well. For those of you with volume issues, I recommend VLC it allows you to push the volume up over the normal level most programs allow. That way you can really head how it's NOT PAUL McGann. LOL

  • May 22, 2011, 10:41 a.m. CST

    merrick that would be great!

    by Kelvington

    I would very much like to see the talkbacks continue during the break. See how you got into Who, maybe even do a docback about people who make parody videos of Doctor Who and Star Trek or Star Wars or other things that I do, that are vaguely Doctor Who related. LOL Being subtle has never been a trait of mine. :)

  • May 22, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    @frozen01 - The TARDIS tells the Doctor she loves him?

    by V'Shael

    Where was that?

  • May 22, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    I take back the fuckers comment

    by Extr3m1st

    And Kelvington I was one of your biggest fans on your Dr Who reviews last year :) But it's ok, I know it is a daunting task. And I would never call you guys Dioxholsters, that would be uncivilized.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:51 a.m. CST

    The Doctor with his socks on (Spoilerish)

    by Perigee

    OK, watching again - a couple of plot points. 1) Obviously, Our Doctor can be IDed by his socks. Unless plasticman decides to play twister, the one guy we can definitely place has his goldtoes on. 2) There's at least one additional Doppledoc, beyond the one in the storage room. They pulled a "Flesh and Stone" right as the Doctor separated from Amy to look for the TARDIS. "Distress Flares..." (25.44) 3) It's not just the Gangers that are sentient - the actual Flesh itself is. It was a big deal in the initial Doctor scanning bit. I suspect when they're "gooey" they're more of a hive mind - more Flesh sentience than People. More violent, primitive, malevolent, united.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Merrick, count me in for the Docback continuing

    by Seph_J

    although please ensure that genuine SPOILERS are removed, as I imagine a certain amount of material will surface during the break, and while speculation is the whole brilliant point of the docback, having the show ruined with as yet unbroadcast revelations is fucking unforgiveable.

  • May 22, 2011, 10:59 a.m. CST

    extr3m1st... thanks for that...

    by Kelvington

    Thanks for taking that back, all us fuckers appreciate that. LOL But it does show some character on your part. Glad you liked the reviews, I stopped doing them because Herc stopped posting them. While it's not a daunting task at all, here is a good place to start, it shows but most of the clues and some of the production errors (rory's badge) and they talk about all that happened - Please ignore any mention of the following in those links above - The Rani Paul McGann Amy's House Is A TARDIS Amy's TARDIS Is A House The Valeyard Paul McGann (yes I listed it twice) Patches On One's Sleeves Any Mention of James Corden and Talent in the same sentence. The Valeyard Is The Rani In Amy's TARDIS' House.

  • May 22, 2011, 11 a.m. CST

    I'm a great Parker (Spoilerish)

    by Perigee

    Assuming that we have a Second Doppledoc, who showed up by the flares, his only line so far could be... curious. "You'll never get your vehicle down here." Flatly - "I'm a great parker." Hmm. All I could find out there in slang terms was this: Parker noun a chauffeur. The name of Lady Penelope’s chauffeur in Thunderbirds (a cult television series of the early 1960s, relaunched in the 90s) adopted as a generic nickname UK, 1999

  • May 22, 2011, 11:04 a.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    when Kelv says 'ignore' he means "try to forget, so that when most of them are proved to be true, you'll be more surprised"

  • May 22, 2011, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Thanks Kelvington

    by Extr3m1st

    I appreciate the links. I don't understand why he stopped posting the reviews, I looked forward to reading them each weekend.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:07 a.m. CST

    perigee so the goo is sentient...

    by Kelvington

    So that would be a lot like the Ood big brain thing? Thank god we haven't seen that before. :) And you are right he did say that. I'm still saying they are all gangers, right from the start. Sort of like that SGU story that would have made a much better series finale than the one they had. Or the Tom Riker story, or the DS9 story where they all crashed and were on that planet. They are ALL gangers! Spoilers - things we do know for sure... 1. There will be an aborted timeline 2. River is Amy's Daughter 3. Everyone - River, The Doctor and Amy all lie. 4. Amy kills the one armed man... I mean the one eyed woman. In an aborted timeline. 5. Cybermats are back. 6. River's life has been one big spoiler.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:12 a.m. CST

    Rebel Flesh on iTunes??

    by Jimbobsq

    Anyone else having trouble getting The Rebel Flesh from iTunes? I got a season pass and this is the first time there's been an issue. WTF?

  • May 22, 2011, 11:14 a.m. CST


    by Perigee

    I need a definition of "right from the start" to understand your point. As in, Playing Darts at the start. BTW - did you notice what a pigsty the TARDIS was becoming, with them two in there? Clothes all over the bannisters, junk on the stairs... As in "Pre Scanning the Flesh," when the Doctor made a big deal out of the sentience of the goo? Or are you starting at the point at which the Doctor fell from the weathervane and everyone conked out?

  • May 22, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    See what I mean? LOL It's just before she, as Idris, dissipates. Or while she is, one of the two. LOL Unless that was just added into to both my copies of the episode and Confidential. ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Merrick - agreed with kelvington

    by frozen01

    Give us an excuse to discuss Doctor Who, and we'll be here ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 11:19 a.m. CST

    One thing sure -

    by Perigee

    The Doctor the TARDIS fell in front of still had his shoes on. The fact that they focused on a pair left in the acid, steaming has to have some significance.

  • It was a joke. Like when you see a narrow parking spot and say "You'll never get your car in there, it's too small."

  • May 22, 2011, 11:26 a.m. CST


    by frozen01

    I have a bit more pull with shibley. He'll pay ;) Or sweet talk me with Vimto candies, one of the two.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:28 a.m. CST


    by Perigee

    I just watched that last scene twice, and nowhere in my copy does she say "I love you" - at least at that point. "Doctor - are you there? Its so dark in here.." "I'm Here.." "Ive been looking for a word. A big, complicated word, but so sad. I've found it now..." "What word?" "Alive. I'm alive." "Alive isn't sad." "It is when its over. I'll always be here, but this is when we talked. And now even that has come to an end. There's something I didn't get to say to you.." "Goodbye?" "No. I just wanted to say Hello. Hello, Doctor. It's so very very nice to meet you." Doctor - "Please - I shan't want you to... please..." I just transcribed that thing through six more screenings. I have absolutely no lovey dovey.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Got that, V'shael.

    by Perigee

    But I wonder IF this is indeed an extra doctor plugged in - in the same way as in during the Angels episode - the meaning may not be the obvious one. As Gollum would have said, The Doctor knew his way in - he'd know the way out. He walked with Amy and the worker to the acid, then he left. He'd know how to get back to where he came from, which, trailing back, was the TARDIS in the acid. The Doctor who appeared behind the panel was not acting quite right. And he said two things: "Exit." and "I'm a great parker." If there is in fact some significance in this doctor's appearance, I'm not sure there wasn't an additional, ironic meaning behind it.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:35 a.m. CST

    I still enjoy the show.

    by Smashing

    It's better than a lot of other TV but overall it just feels a lot flatter than it used too. Matt Smith is great, sort of, the writing though would seem to be very hit or miss nowadays. I'm not interested if my opinion is in the minority, I'd be more bothered if it reflected mainstream, also just because I'ts apparently a minority opinion doesn't mean it's wrong. Last nights episode bored me silly, the doc was not needed, like Indy in Crystal Skull his presence didn't affect anything. Yeah there are a lot of us white folks in the UK indeed, our TV should reflect were not all that there is though and last nights episode had an all white cast, it's 2011, that to me is a little regressive.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Frozen hi

    by Smashing

    I didn't see that was you replying, how be thee?

  • May 22, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Merrick :)

    by shibleybc

    Thanks good sir, please continue a weekly docback as that would be great! Get us through the "void" :( And i agree with Frozen, any old excuse to chat Who! Also she has an evil stare! :P

  • May 22, 2011, 11:42 a.m. CST



    Just as Idris/TARDIS is turning into light and disappearing forever, you hear the faint echo of her voice saying "I love you".

  • May 22, 2011, 11:43 a.m. CST

    Where is Ace?

    by Smashing

    I haven't seen him for ages, is he OK?

  • May 22, 2011, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Wow. THAT was subtle.

    by Perigee

    I'm BARELY hearing that, and only then because you insisted it. Right after the TARDIS honks. That's... kinda cool.

  • May 22, 2011, 11:57 a.m. CST

    How did I not hear that?

    by V'Shael

    Holy shit....

  • May 22, 2011, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Just an ok episode.

    by shutupfanboy

    Gaiman's episode is still the best one. It probably could have been a hour without the Doctor replicate. Hopefully, they will do something with the humans on the planet, they were from blandsville, population boring as fuck.

  • May 22, 2011, noon CST

    I have decided...

    by Smashing

    Smashing says that if Mr Moff hadn't kicked season 6 off so amazingly massive then these episodes wouldn't feel so much like filler. The regeneration cliff hanger and story lines laid down where so exciting I'm kinda miffed at having to wait for them. Maybe if TIA/DOTM had aired in this time-slot it wouldn't feel so much like moving further and further away from the main story and the other episodes wouldn't suffer from unfair comparison? It may just be the scope of this season is too wide given the ongoing interests raised in the opener. Some conclusion would have been nice then maybe Pirates and Clones wouldn't seem so off topic, maybe it's just moi?

  • May 22, 2011, 12:01 p.m. CST

    more on SFX's spoiler-free review of the next episode

    by berserkrl

    "15 The Doctor asks Amy to do something he also asked her to do in the last series" I'm thinking of "try to remember." "21 By the end of the episode you be left trying to work out when something that clearly happened actually happened" I'm guessing that's when somebody or somebodies got replaced by Gangers. (And a possible answer might be: during the "few minutes" or "at least an hour" that they were unconscious in part 1.)

  • May 22, 2011, 12:24 p.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    Continuing the talkbacks would be a great idea. In addition to the general talking about the series during the break, there will also be DVDs of the classic series (and also Season 6 part 1) which can also be discussed while we wait for the second half of the season.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:27 p.m. CST

    You guys dissin' on Amy lay off

    by FeralAngel

    Karen Gillian is amazing as the character, and she's a perfect foil for Matt Smith's doc. Hot too. Makes me care about Amy and what happens to her as much as I care about what happens to the Doc. SO LAY OFF. Rory could get assmunched by a Reticulon though for all I care.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:34 p.m. CST

    perigee ... at first...

    by Kelvington

    I thought they were ALL gangers after the Doctor falls and wakes up. But now I'm starting to think from the time the episode started they might have been gangers. It's crazy, but it just might work... In sort of a time loop way.... Gangers come out of a ganger TARDIS and find out there are Gangers then after the adventures with Gangers they have a Ganger TARDIS which takes them back to the beginning of the episode. It's super crazy I'll admit, but them all being Gangers from the moment after the fall is just to easy. LOL I'm well over 5% sure that this is true.

  • May 22, 2011, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Not great

    by theGoldbergV

    about 15 minutes in I was getting the feeling I got at the same point in COTBS, namely that its just a bit hard to care. Another example of a writer not really "getting" the character of the Doctor. Whereas last week he was mad, unhinged, dangerous and unpredictable, here he was just speaking very quickly and dropping the occasional one-liner. I knew NOTHING from spoilers but last week's promo pretty blew the reveal the Doctor was getting cloned. I hope this was all set-up for something great to happen in part 2 cuz otherwise the story's just not doing it for me.

  • Continue the talkbacks during the break. And, maybe "The Rebel Flesh" needed to be a two-parter because it's not the simple story it could have been. Some of the unanswered questions, Why (and where) did the Doctor need to go by himself? If the Doctor had been there before, why keep it a secret? And, why did the Doctor create a ganger (maybe, two?) of himself on purpose? Are there any unanswered questions I left out?

  • May 22, 2011, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Perhaps the big reveal about the gangers..

    by TheFerretLives

    .. is that they're really all gingas? And Amy is their queen? F

  • May 22, 2011, 1:10 p.m. CST

    My nephew who is 7 loved it though

    by theGoldbergV

    so what do I know

  • May 22, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    shit.... Sexy said '"I love you"

    by Seph_J

    I never heard that before either. Nice one.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:26 p.m. CST

    DW on iTunes

    by Casey4147

    Yup, haven't yet been told I have a new episode available for download. Apple's reportedly a mite bit busy this week with their retail store revamp, and the delay in episode availability happened in previous seasons as well.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:29 p.m. CST

    DW Talkback

    by Casey4147

    Yes, please continue the talkback while DW is on hiatus. Gives us something to look forward to and possibly keep us sane. I wonder, considering how upset Moffat was with the spoilers leaking out, how much he gets off reading all the speculation he's causing...

  • May 22, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    How to tell the Dr's apart

    by mrbouncy

    For those that haven't seen the rebel flesh look away now! Something just struck me about the Dr losing his boots last night was this before or after the flesh started to make his copy?

  • May 22, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Thought it was all rather obvious,

    by -Halfscan-

    which is why I felt slightly underwhelmed by the episode.</p> The "Flesh" is an offshoot of the Nestene, which is hinted at A LOT in throughout the episode. Hint: there is a reason dopplejenni "noticed Rory first when they arrived", why Rory feels an attachment so strong to the gangers that he turns his back on the woman he waited 2,000 years for, the the Doctor tells everyone "they aren't after Rory, they are after us"... etc. </p> Beyond constantly hinting at this though the episode really didn't do anything interesting. Hopefully the 2nd half will make something out of the overall story now that this hour of build up out of the way.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:50 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    It's incredibly faint, and in the episode itself, you can barely hear it, but it is there. It's much more apparent in the Confidential if you wanna give that a shot.

  • May 22, 2011, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Oops sorry didn't see that you'd already caught it

    by frozen01

    But, wait a second... did I actually catch something that you all didn't? Well, ain't that something ;) I'm pretty sure that's the first and last time THAT will happen *LOL*

  • May 22, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    mr bouncy

    by Perigee

    IF I'm right, one was made when the doctor scanned, then touched the Flesh; a second was made later, when you saw the Mouth in the Flesh say "Trust me..." And perhaps - just perhaps - a third was made during the hour everybody was knocked out. Although, I suspect that one is the fully formed one I believe I saw by the flares cabinet, which would have been initiated with that first scan/touch.

  • I really wish I felt the same ... I keep waiting for Karen to settle into the role and for writers to surprise me but it never happens. I've said it before but I think Amy would have been a better character if Rory didn't exist. Her 'marriage' feels like something she went into at gunpoint and there is a lingering vibe that she hates the fact Rory is along for the ride and wishes she could be alone with the Doctor. I long for the episode that she is 'dropped off' and her Tardis journey ends ... but thats just me.

  • May 22, 2011, 2:18 p.m. CST

    She really hasn't done much, has she?

    by Perigee

    I thought she had something back during "The Beast Below." As absurd as the episode was, even in "Victory" she showed some initiative. Since then... Nada. Woman in peril, Bossy Princess Leia without a blaster, looker-on-er. Rory's stock is going waay up for me. It might be an American thing, but I like to see competence in someone who's out on missions like this, instead of mouth-breathing, goggle eyed, and hollering for somebody when they get left alone. Ah, Delaware... a yank in the TARDIS. What could have been... the competence. The get-it-done-ness. The lack of constant supervision. ~SIGH~

  • May 22, 2011, 2:39 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    "Turns his back on"? That's a bit harsh. Rory feels that Jennifer is human, and needs his help. Amy (and the Doctor, interestingly enough) are urging him to leave this person in peril. He can't do that. Amy is with the Doctor; she's safe. So how's he turning his back on her? You could be very right about your speculation, but it could just as easily be that they really just aren't after Rory. After all, he isn't a threat, he didn't kill anyone, and he's been actively trying to help.

  • May 22, 2011, 2:57 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    We "yanks" (I kinda loath that term) can only hope ;) Is Sheppard in anything currently?

  • May 22, 2011, 2:59 p.m. CST

    Almost everybody does, Frozon01...

    by Perigee

  • May 22, 2011, 3:08 p.m. CST

    Including, I believe, the British who tagged us with it.

    by Perigee

    But I have a fondness for language; Yankee greenbacks, Connecticut Yankee in King Arthurs Court, Yankee Doodle... And, of course, the New York Yankees. Damn Them. Of course, coming from the Northeast, we're rather more fond of it up here, since we got to keep the derogative during the Civil War. So we have squatter's rights. It is what it has always been; loud, bumptious, rude, prideful... but, in Sheenspeak, always #winning. Which is probably why we're always so loud, bumptious, rude and prideful. ~Grin~ It's an adorable little word, if you don't take it too seriously.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Yanks lol

    by shibleybc

    ooops sorry ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Coming from the Southeast, originally anyways...

    by frozen01

    though definitely not even close to a Confederate flag-waving idiot, I do have a residual regional dislike for the term, just in a more modern sense. It makes it sound like all Americans are from New England or something. Perish the thought ;) That, and it sounds a wee bit... euphemistic, if you catch my drift. Then again, it's rather tame compared to our stereotypical view of the British, so perhaps I'd better leave it be *LOL*

  • May 22, 2011, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Keep digging that hole, Simon ;)

    by frozen01

  • May 22, 2011, 3:37 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Oh sorry, just saw your post... it was revealed *cough* that moffatbabies is Ace/gotilk. Though I don't think he's been back since making that announcement.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    I've been splendid :) How've you been? Did you get to see the London pics? I had a really great time! And my god, the food... I really do not understand how there could be this rumor floating around that British food is terrible. I just don't see it. The lattes at my hotel were fantastic, and the steak pie... *drools* But seriously, there are too many Americans in your fair capitol, you should really do something about that ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Belated thoughts on episode 5......(theorising spoilers...)

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...... arriving a bit late to the dance always has its drawbacks, one of them being that most of the good stuff has always been discussed or speculated. However, without being (fully) aware of how next weeks episode ends I would like to theorise the following: It is out there (on this DocBac k so don't berrate me for mentioning it again) that others think the clone Doc is the one that is shot and killed at the beginning of TIA.... ...what if the real Doc kills him?

  • May 22, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Well, hun, ya got your wish. Daniel Rigby won.

  • May 22, 2011, 3:52 p.m. CST


    by Perigee

    It fits in great up here. I mean, if you're saying yank is a euphemism for "jer*-*ff," well, we call each other Yanks twenty times a day: "Hey, Yank, get out of the road - cancha see we're drivin' here?" "Look at that Yank over there, with the leather pants on - Whatsamatter with him, he leave his assless chaps at home?" "Yeah - I went to the sales meeting. A bunch of Yanks with suits on, trying to tell us how to do our jobs..." If you look at it that way, well, Yanks seems to fit us now better than it ever has. I don't think a day goes by when all of us are either called or thought of as "Yanks." The Great Northeast. Such a friendly place. You should come see... ~Grin~

  • May 22, 2011, 4:06 p.m. CST

    LOVE seeing River Song at the BAFTAS

    by Seph_J

    and virtually EVERY show nominated for ANYTHING has a who character in it. I even saw Elton from Love & Monsters in there. The doctor from Eleventh Hour (Indian chick from Eastenders) was on stage, theres a ton more, but i'll leave it to others to point it out. How many WHO characters appeared in the BAFTAS today?

  • May 22, 2011, 4:11 p.m. CST


    by McBegbie

    Well I suppose it's preferable to being referred to as merkins, just saying mind ;o) Oh, and congrats to Freeman, Rigby and all those involved with Sherlock. Nicely done.

  • May 22, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST

    This episode will pay off later

    by karmo

    A lot of people seem to be complaining that this episode was a filler episode, but if you watch the episode closely, i have no doubt that we've only seen part of what is going on, and this episode will pay off in a much larger way later on. There are so many strange occurrences and little things that don't make sense, but I have no doubt they will at a later date. The doctor seemed to know a lot of things that were about to happen, as if they had already happened to him, or at least had the memories of them happening. This leads me to believe that some future iteration of the doctor is messing with the timeline. Either the doctor himself, or the doctor's ganger. Or maybe the future doctor is messing with his ganger's current timeline. Also, just a question...when the doctor has the group of humans and gangers all together to try to work out a peace, while he's talking about getting the tardis to get them all out of there, Rory has a rather strange reaction in the background. Pain? Surprise? Psychic message? What was that?

  • May 22, 2011, 4:48 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Helllllll no. No offense, but I can barely handle you people on the phone. I don't know how you deal with each other in real life, day in, day out. ;) If I wanted to spend my entire vacation being yelled at, I'd visit my folks ;)

  • May 22, 2011, 4:48 p.m. CST

    "I even saw Elton from Love & Monsters in there."

    by frozen01

    Mad Dogs?

  • May 22, 2011, 5:37 p.m. CST

    iTunes & BBCA...

    by The_Mad_Groper

    This whole memorial day waiting crap has gotta stop! I can't live without my Doctor!!! ~slams head into desk!~ Merrick, keep these blogs open please... if I can't watch at least we can talk about them! Sam, better late than never! What kept you?

  • May 22, 2011, 6:03 p.m. CST


    by berserkrl

    "while he's talking about getting the tardis to get them all out of there, Rory has a rather strange reaction in the background. Pain? Surprise? Psychic message? What was that?" Look at his hand, and what he does with it right after that reaction -- I think Ganger Girl was starting to hold it too tight (they're stronger than the originals).

  • May 22, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST


    by karmo

    Yeah maybe that's all it is. I thought of that but it just seemed odd to me that if they wanted to make a point that the gangers are stronger, I would have thought it would be something more obvious rather than something in the background.

  • May 22, 2011, 6:18 p.m. CST

    the_mad_groper... you know you can watch it live...

    by Kelvington

    There are ways to watch it live, with the rest of us next Saturday afternoon (if you are in the USA). Write me, we'll talk! As for me, I pay for a TV license, and a slingbox so I can watch it live. That's just how much I love this show!

  • May 22, 2011, 6:39 p.m. CST

    kelvington :)

    by The_Mad_Groper

    I appreciate the offer.. I may just have to take you up on it! I get so tired of trying to do it "the right way" when companies make it so damn hard to. ~looks menacingly at BBCA and iTunes~ But if worse comes to worse, I guess I can always go back and watch The Key to Time over the next two weeks...

  • May 22, 2011, 7:05 p.m. CST

    the_mad_groper .... Key To Time...

    by Kelvington

    As you wish. Next time you watch the opening to the "Key of Time" see if you notice Tom's upper lip, which was bitten by a dog a few days before filming. The makeup people did what they could.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:10 p.m. CST

    Rory's spasm

    by TheFerretLives

    Lol I'd forgotten about that, for a moment as I was watching it I thought it was one of those rare bits that wasn't meant to be left in like Denise Crosby's last scene as Tasha Yar in TNG (last shot filmed not in the show) when Data is coming out of the cargo bay after talking to her and if you keep watching she does this comical wave and dodge as if she was about to be crushed by something. But then I figured the same as others that it was just because she was holding his hand too tight. Still a bit weird though. I don't know about this Rory is still an Auton business, surely when Amy remembered the universe in the Big Bang she remembered him as a human not an Auton? Yes I know he still has a memory of it but perhaps that is because of Amy having to remember the Doctor, or perhaps that whole convo with the doc was meant to show that her remembrance wasn't perfect? F

  • May 22, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST


    by TheFerretLives

    Kinda glad that neither one of the Moffatt leads won but it is weird because it means Martin Freeman won a Bafta for his Watson but Cumbernatch didn't for his Holmes. Go figure. But gotta say I'm disappointed that Who got not one bean, not one bar. Stoked about Lauren Socha though and her reaction was brilliant! F

  • May 22, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST


    by The_Mad_Groper

    I'll take a look... never noticed it before! I always enjoy finding new things in the videos I missed the first 27 or 28 times I've watched them.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:22 p.m. CST

    Scarred lips and other gaffes

    by TheFerretLives

    They should have the equivalent of the Nitpickers Guide To TNG/DS9 etc for Doctor Who or would that take as many volumes as the encyclopaedia britannia? F

  • May 22, 2011, 7:25 p.m. CST

    It's much better second viewing, and later at night.

    by Smashing

    Maybe I should stop watching at tea time and wait until later on, the vibe just isn't there for me with daylight.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:31 p.m. CST

    You bought it, so?

    by veteran_of_mu

    Buy yourself a part 1 license on iTunes. Then get the torrent to TPB. That's ethical. And if you bought the right to see it who's going to sue you for seeing it via a different distribution channel? Oh and Karen Gillan is, for my money, the Worst. Companion. Actor. Ever. Seriously, can you think of anyone with less range, less sincerity, or less esprit de corps? I can't. The only good thing about her is she doesn't notice when she's being upstaged by Arthur Darvill.

  • May 22, 2011, 7:56 p.m. CST

    caractacuspotts... I only bought it...

    by Kelvington

    so that I knew at least some part of £145.50 goes to the production of Doctor Who. I don't think anyone EVER has been sued for watching or downloading Doctor Who illegally. I think they are just grateful for the viewers outside the UK to help with the Toy and DVD sales. There was a little dust up when Rose leaked a few weeks early, but after that, they know it's going to happen, I just want to help pay for the production in some very, very, very small way.

  • May 22, 2011, 8:03 p.m. CST


    by The_Mad_Groper

    Exactly! That's why I always try to do it legally, because I want to make sure the money goes back into making more! :) I didn't buy the season pass because it made it sound like you were renting the episodes not buying them and I like having them around when I feel like watching, not on someone elses schedule.

  • May 22, 2011, 9:12 p.m. CST

    Surprised at the Amy backlash

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    I never really had a problem with her. I will say that the majority of the Doctor's companions for the 2005 series have been pretty weak. Rose was the typical love interest. Martha was the potential love interest replacement. And Donna was horribly irritating--but at least the producers had the balls to portray a companion as a not-pretty, shrewish, yet down-to-earth and sensible person rather than just another pretty/vapid face. Although to give credit where credit is due, the producers did manage to pick extremely hot companions when they chose Rose and Martha. All that aside, I think Amy is a perfectly fine character. She's actually proactive about helping the Doctor (occasionally), and her history with him--with the waiting for how many years for him to come back--is actually kind of poignant and touching. The scene where she swears to the Doctor on fishfingers and custard was pretty powerful.

  • May 23, 2011, 1:30 a.m. CST


    by Perigee

    From the start, let it be said that a character is only as good as the writer. And, sadly, that seems to be the case with Amy. She started out well - Very well. Wasn't afraid to call The Doctor on his BS, was capable enough to act on her own, and wasn't too goggle-eyed at all the weird shit going on around her. On the other hand, Rory was a Mickey Junior; tentative, fraidy cat, hesitant. Over the course of time, the writers have been moving Rory up the scale, and Amy down. I guess maybe it's because somebody decided that Amy was the Jewel of the Nile, and just Being Something Important was enough to support the character. "How can you knock Amy? She remembered the entire world back to life, and now she's all half-pregnant! Why, she's the cornerstone of the series!" Well. no. her situation is. As to Amy herself, there's not all that much "there" there. So far, in season 6, going backwards, she's played darts, got jealous of Rory, wandered around a lot, wandered around a whole lot more, blubbered about dead Rory, blubbered about old Rory, blubbered about not knowing CPR, then blubbered when dead Rory was alive. Then she got all dressed up like a cute lil pirate - because taking the time to get dressed up like a cute pirate is important(!) - pretended to be a Jedi with a cutlas, and wandered around a bit more. Before that, she blubbered about the doctor. And wandered around a whole lot. She's not really all that proactive - at least lately. She's the wandering, semi-pregnant water sprinkler. Amy's one trick pony is that she's half-pregnant. It's a nice trick, but a trick none the less. When it all comes down, all Amy could do to plead for her place in the series right now is, "You can't lose me - I'm mysteriously half pregnant! I'm an important plot point." People aren't supposed to Be plot points. They are supposed to react to them. And Rory is getting better and better at that - depending on the writer. He's acting more On the story, taking initiative, and - especially important from a writers point of view - he's growing in his character. The blowback on Amy is that Mickey Junior is now a more fully fleshed out character than his one-note, main companion girlfriend. He knows more about River; he felt more deeply about Sexy; he definitely feels something for gangergirl; he, instead of Amy, kept his head together when they thought the Doctor was dead, and when they found him alive. I never expected -never - to see gangly old pudding head Rory show a brain and heart and soul ticking around inside of him. And, after that brilliant run on Spaceship UK, I never thought I'd see Amy become a piece of necessary luggage. But there it is. At least, so far.

  • May 23, 2011, 2:36 a.m. CST

    speaking of the baftas...

    by emeraldboy

    I thought lasts nights bafta's were horrible. but at least brendan O' Carroll didnt win. so that is good but less good is the news is the bbc has commissioned a second series of his awful show. Sir Tervor McDonald is a legend. the fact that the essex show won, that the gypsy was nominated as was the katie price abomination, means that tv really is an awful state. but at least simon cowell didnt win. So I suppose they werent all that horrible.

  • May 23, 2011, 2:41 a.m. CST

    No problem with Amy. Just with Gillan.

    by veteran_of_mu

    Sure they haven't given her a lot to do. But a real actress would make stuff happen anyway. Gillan is a pureblood Gen-Y actress. She just thinks it's not really her business - she's entitled to be there and doesn't need to do anything but stand around and maybe pout once in a while. Look at it this way. Suranne Jones did more in about 3 minutes of air time than Karen Gillan has been able to do in 2 whole series. But she's central to it so ... I'm kind of hoping it turns out Amy is a Time Lady. And that she regenerates. Soon.

  • May 23, 2011, 2:58 a.m. CST



    Wait. Did I read that right? You're an American who purchased the BBC license fee because some of it goes toward DOCTOR WHO? If that's correct.... you're a madman with a license fee! And you may be one of the most dedicated Whobackers ever. Congratulations, buddy!

  • May 23, 2011, 3:10 a.m. CST

    Gillan is a model not an actress

    by jbs9200

    In defense of Gillian, she is a model and not an actress. Plus given what I have seen of her on the 2 episodes of Who Confidential & Ferguson, calming down and acting like Amy Pond as opposed to Gillian's nervous twitching self seems on Hell of an acting job. . . Comments of her acting aside, I still feel the need to have red hot Soviet monkey sex with her (should she want it).

  • May 23, 2011, 3:30 a.m. CST

    "In defense of Gillian, she is a model and not an actress"


    True, but she was perfectly watchable in "The Kevin Bishop Show", I know its only comedy skits but still ... Someone above said they thought Matt Smith had been reading his own press and that his performance as the Doctor had come to a halt. In many ways this is how I feel about Amy/Karen ... If you go back and watch the 11th Hour she is TWICE the actress she is right now, its utterly strange, its like her performance of Amy is getting more wooden as time moves forward.

  • Or at least they did, back before Nu-who came on the air. It was called the DisContinuity Guide, and I owned a well thumbed copy once upon a time. It was a fun read, and wasn't as full of mistakes, that weren't really mistakes (only a sign that the author was ignorant about the show) that the NitPickers guide was.

  • May 23, 2011, 3:44 a.m. CST

    Rory the Auton?

    by HornOrSilk

    Maybe in a weird way, he is and is not an Auton -- just like Amy is and is not pregnant -- and maybe the Doctor is and is not dead.

  • May 23, 2011, 3:58 a.m. CST

    DisContinuity Guide

    by TheFerretLives

    I'll have to check that out, thanks v'shael. It's amazing what you realise you missed when you read those nitpicker guides, like how on TNG episode Tapestry when a Naausican's (sic) wig blatantly falls off during a fight sequence! Or how Riker, being pulled off (fnar fnar) after being phasered suddenly opens his eyes and looks at what must be the director. The plothole and inconsistency bits are only really interesting from a scriptwriting or creative process point of view. F

  • Stand her in the corner and have her hand-feature the boring blue brakes. ~hurrumph.~ My Lawyer isn't very good, but he's actually a short-order cook... My Mechanic isn't too bright, but in his defense, he's one heck of a lifeguard. All of these beg the question I need not ask...

  • May 23, 2011, 5:23 a.m. CST

    House Of Cards - or Pregnant or not!

    by wtriker1701

    Anybody noticed how the house of cards changed with the doctor focusing on it? Well, i guess, it's just a continuity error as well, but one, that shouldn't have been overlooked by the producers. You clearly see on top of the cards there's an 8 of diamonds, right before it's being destroyed (about 19-20 minutes in on the show). Before that we saw The Doctor watching that house of cards multiple times and we were lead to believe the card on top must be a Jack or a King. The cards switched. Like Amy's pregnancy does. A hint? Continuity error? Well probably continuity error, but one so blatantly that it stares us right in the face. With all the guessing game going on these past two seasons, would they no be very careful to NOT watching over those details in the dailies? I just remembered Albert Einstein in TNG (Descent): "All the quantum fluctuations in the universe will not change the cards in your hand." That's where Stephen Hawking replies: "Wrong again, Albert!" Seems like Doctor Who acknowledges Hawking's reply...

  • May 23, 2011, 7:21 a.m. CST

    If a tree in a forrest falls and no one is there to hear it..

    by TheFerretLives

    .. will the Coalition Government give a shit? F

  • May 23, 2011, 10:46 a.m. CST

    The Itunes wait.

    by Dr_PepperSpray

    Whatever their rationale is, it goes completely against what the customer expects from their service. They should have at the very least sent out a mass e-mail explaining why they decided to hold up the episode. <P> A friend of mine just downloaded it from a site, full HD rip and it took less time to download then through Itunes, so we watched it at his place before someone eventually spoiled the crap out of it for me. This isn't what I wanted to do! <P> So aside from donating out of appreciation for the show, why did I pay for the season pass again?

  • May 23, 2011, 10:56 a.m. CST

    I am beginning to agree with my esteemed DocBackers....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....The Amy character is slowly beginning to lose credibility, whether through the writing, characterisation or the person who is playing the role. I am of the humble belief that it is unfortunately all three. Last season she started out as a sassy, fiesty piece of work who demanded to be in control of all things around her, foremost of the poor downtrodden sap who nipped at her feet. She had a greater emotive arc with Rory (finally) dying. She saved the universe. Now what? We've seen Rory die 6 times in total and any grief played out we've seen before and is a moot point. Miss Gillan seems to be coasting in the role instead of grabbing it by the throat and giving her character depth. In the latest episode she has even played jealousy poorly. (I justhope she is keeping something back for next week...) Aside from mentioning it every episode or two to ensure that viewers are STILL aware she is conflicted by the Doctors death and keeping the knowledge from him, she has done little else to show any of this. Her interraction with our fave timelord should at least be a little more like "treading on eggshells..." where it is not. And instead of the Doc trying to keep things from her, shouldn't it be the other way around in actions and words??? And this is where the writers have served her poorly. Without the pregancy MacGuffin it is becoming all too obvious that she is just not interesting, or is having no interest shown in the character because the series is becoming far too busy intertwining new plot threads with old. Now, as have some others I have a little knowledge of some future events (and I will NOT be sharing any of them anymore as per my promise to you all.) and developments with the Amy Pond character, and I can only hope that during this time Miss Gillan gets the attention she deserves and more importantly the acting chops to pull off what is needed. If so, then great!!! If not, then yes, it will be time to trade up once again. Just my 2c. fellow DocBackers.

  • May 23, 2011, 11 a.m. CST

    Ferret- my old mum used to tell me.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....there are two things you should never discuss with people: Religion or Politics. ;)

  • May 23, 2011, 11:04 a.m. CST

    jbs- red hot soviet monkey sex? How about clay cold Lithuanian giraffe sex?

    by sam jacksons wig

    Mildly tepid Polish goldfish intercourse? Almost to the boil Transylvanian sperm whale coitus? Simmering Iranian three toed sloth gang banging? Chilled Peruvian pig fucking? No????

  • I just couldn't imagine him as the Doc in a movie regardless of how much money they threw at him and the screen.

  • What the FUCK is wrong with the Tardis???? How many episodes now and the scan is STILL taking place???? And don't say that it's a different scan everytime and the Doc is forced to switch it off......

  • May 23, 2011, 11:32 a.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    I am wondering if Amy's pregnancy is not the only thing which is happening as "yes and no." What if the Doctor's death is another such occasion? As with Rory: some people think they see some sort of Auton aspects with Rory. If that is the case, perhaps it ties in with Amy not always being pregnant. What if every character is really doubled, and two universes are contained in one person for each? What if Rory is both a human and an Auton, and the Auton Rory is unable to reproduce? This might also be a way to solve the Doctor's death. It is at the moment of his death two universe can begin to diverge again, and one universe the Doctor is dead, and one he survives...

  • May 23, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    This idea would thus be able to take much of what we have seen

    by HornOrSilk

    The Doctor talking about universes sharing the same space; the idea of "doubles" with the gangers, everything. They could all be used by the Doctor to figure out what is going on; the TARDIS itself is taking him to places to help him figure out the two-in-one scenario...

  • May 23, 2011, 11:45 a.m. CST


    by Merrick

    "The Rebel Flesh" - in HD - dropped into my Zune Season Pass cue (XBOX Live) yesterday (Sunday) morning, for whatever that's worth. Are you here in the U.S.?

  • May 23, 2011, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Thoughts on the episode (NOT SPOILERS, just my guesses)

    by Christopher Bynum

    The Rory we see after everyone is knocked out is a ganger, and he ends up with Jennifer, assuming they don't get killed. Also, I wonder if the Doctor that woke up near the vane is the real one. Why would he go to the Flesh and sonic it, then leave? He seemed to know what would happen. He seemed like he was waking up the copy, instead of scanning it. So are there TWO ganger Doctors? Where did the Flesh come from? Is this something the Silence came up with? And last question: could the Flesh be used to create another TARDIS?

  • May 23, 2011, 12:30 p.m. CST

    "How many episodes now and the scan is STILL taking place???? "


    Its just a rubbish way of the reminding the viewers ... 'Hey!, don't forget Amy is still MAYBE up the duff' ... Actually makes me miss the days when there would be subtle Bad Wolf mentions that could be missed. Obviously the best thing for the Doctor to do would be to sit Amy and Rory down, tell them what he discovered and work something out together ... but that wouldn't be mysterious enough.

  • Yes you did read that right, I'm an American who buys a license fee every year since 2005, and has a slingbox set up at one my friend's homes in the UK. Which is how I was able to write reviews as quickly as show aired in the past. I'm just that much in love with the UK. In all honesty I want to move there, sooner rather than later. silentrifleman - I think I said this above, the TARDIS is a living creature, they are grown not built, so YES you could make another TARDIS possibly. The problem with making a TARIDS is the inside exists in another dimension and is the size of a planet, so that would require a lot of goo! As for Karen's acting. 1) Yes if you see her on Craig Ferguson or any other show, she seems as bat-shit crazy as every other actress I've ever met or known is. 2) jbs9200 You are right the fact that she can rein that shit in and be Amy is very good. But you should try getting a cohesive thought out of Lauren Graham sometime, and yet she can really act. 3) Last year she was one hundred times better than this year, hands down. 4) Let's hope this is because it's all a dream or something. 5) Maybe the writers think that Rory is banging her so hard in the TARDIS that she can barely walk let alone emote. 6) She can cry on que, which is a sign of either a really good actress or a really psychopathic personality. Either way it would be win/win in the sack. LOL All that said, I would marry Karen in a heartbeat... daddy loves some bat-shit crazy women. Oh yes I do.!

  • May 23, 2011, 2:21 p.m. CST


    by TheFerretLives

    I don't know what is going on there, perhaps they're purposefully pushing her to the back of people's minds to make the cliffhanger more impact? I actually think she can sometimes pull some acting out of the bag, I felt her grief genuine in Impossible Astronaut and was a little choked up. F

  • May 23, 2011, 2:26 p.m. CST

    The Doc and that scan

    by TheFerretLives

    I do wonder sometimes whether the Doc actually knows more than Amy and Rory realise about his fate? Like he said in IA don't play me don't think you're even capable of that. Are Amy and Rory capable of keeping that secret from him? So perhaps he's just using the scan as a focus to think? If that isn't the case and the constant inserts of the scan and crowbarred dialogue from Amy and Rory talking about telling him or not are just desperate attempts to keep the story arc alive, if so then it is pretty amateur and I do hope there has been more going on behind these recent episodes otherwise it is pretty poor. F

  • They are certainly focusing on the pregnancy. Some of this might be a smoke screen to make people not consider as much what happened in the first story. <br> We have a child who was in an astronaut suit that had special life support equipment inside. She regenerates 6 months after Day of the Moon. (this doesn't mean that she regenerated at the time of Amy's Child's birth - it's 9 months after Amy told the Doctor she's pregnant - presumably it would have been some time for her to get into the pregnancy to know that she's pregnant - morning sickness, missing a period, etc - that would mean it should be at least 10 months after Amy got pregnant. Also, the "9 month" timeline would be supposing that Amy stuck around 1969 after the events of Day of the Moon and the child stayed in sync). Are we supposed to be thinking that the suit was a substitute womb? The child seems awfully big and awfully mobile for a fetus, even if she's a time lord baby. <br> We do know, however, that the child is tied into regeneration and that she needed help with specialized life support equipment. The Silents knew this and developed the space program in order to get a space suit. So, we reach what might be an important question: <br> Given that Kennedy got the space program going, how did the Silents know that far back that they'd need the spacesuit in 1969? How old was the child in 1969 - was the Silent's activity getting the space program going (which could actually be traced back to competing with Sputnik), presumably to develop this space suit, something that started *before* the child was around? If so, how did they know they'd need the life support suit? Did someone travel back in time and tell them? <br> Now, the Doctor might have picked up a bunch of information about this and realized a few things from examining the space suit in Day of the Moon. Does the Doctor (or *a* Doctor) go back in time to tell the Silents that they need to develop this? <br> We now have at least one ganger Doctor running around. Does the (or a) ganger Doctor go back in time to tell the Silents? Is a ganger Doctor working with the Silents and causing these problems? <br> One thing that hasn't been mentioned - at the end of the Big Bang, when Amy remembered the Doctor back - was that the real Doctor, or was that a ganger Doctor who appeared then, and it's been a duplicate Doctor that Amy and Rory have been running around with ever since? If so, then it the person behind the cracks in time the real Doctor trying to get back into the normal universe, and trying a 7th-Doctoresque manipulation of different groups (the Silents, the Alliance, River, Amy) in order to make it back to the "normal" universe and set things right? <br> Another thing to speculate on - the Crack in time was seen to be reaching out for Rory, unlike what we had seen with the cracks for anyone else. Did whoever was on the other side of the crack and causing them have a specific reason for pulling Rory outside of the universe? If it was the Doctor, was it to prime Rory with some specific information buried in his mind that he would remember later? Rory's sometimes remembering being an Auton now, perhaps at a critical time he'll remember what happened between his "death" and his "rebirth".

  • Personally I think all theories regarding a fake Doctor running around for multiple episodes can be rejected ... Its simply far too big a gamble for Moff and the writers. We would end up with a run of shows that need to be pigeonholed in the history books because they don't actually follow the real man. How would we feel about 'The Doctor's Wife' if we discover thats not the Doctor?

  • It was stated that the Doctor that died was not a clone. However a Ganger is not a clone in the technical sense. It is very sophisticated duplicate. When you grow a clone, you do not grow clothing and shoes.

  • May 23, 2011, 5:06 p.m. CST

    The never ending scan is a Schroedinger box

    by JPKk

    A Schroedinger box can not be opened. When you open the box only one reality exists. The scan can not stop scanning because it can only stop when one reality exists. Amy has a Schroedinger pregnancy. This of course implies Schroedinger intercourse ... that's what you get when you fool around in a Tardis.

  • May 23, 2011, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Gillan -Amy

    by JPKk

    Acting is all about creating the character based on what the script and the director gives you to work with, plus the actor's actual skills. With all the timey-whimey stuff, Shroedinger realities, and fake scenes and secret plot developments, how much of Gillan's recent interpretation of Amy has been intentionally off? Reminds me of complaints about the character of Olivia on Fringe. The audience said the actress was awful, then they discovered there was a reason he was being played that way.

  • May 23, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST


    by wtriker1701

    Are you "him" or are you not? Is Amy pregnant or is she not? Is this going to be a 3 season/series story arc or not? Will the christmas special involve Amy's child birth? Questions over questions... I still miss Spud McSpud... Are you still out there?

  • May 23, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST

    Good point mediat

    by Extr3m1st

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Karens acting. Just like there was nothing wrong with Torv's acting. I love the Amy character, sure it helps that the girl playing the part is a tall hot redhead but she is doing a good job with the role. People on here have hated every companion since the new series began for the most part.

  • May 23, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST

    But first - a musical number.

    by Perigee

    The. One Thing. Dioxholder can't deny. That. No.One... can deny... Doctor Who is the coolest ever show, ever, in the whole history of history - because... Of all the dance numbers. I felt dancy tonight, so I've compiled all of the Doctor Who Dance numbers I could find on Ebay. Some you know. Some you don't. But here they are - dance along with me, kiddies. - Craig Ferguson: a classic. - a crapload of Doctors doing "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" for no apparent reason. - Not really a dance, but a music video about Doctor Who with a cheesy Cardboard Dalek - The Dalek Song. - Doctor who Dance with Tesla Coils

  • May 23, 2011, 7:37 p.m. CST

    Yeah, where is Spud McSpud????????????????????????

    by axcel1

    We all miss him.

  • May 23, 2011, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Upon further review...

    by Kelvington

    While on the treadmill today I watch "The Rebel Flesh" again. I'm starting to think there are a lot more gangers than even I thought before. There are a couple scenes where people walk out of frame and come back into frame, and I'm starting to think every time that happens it's a ganger. So there's really own two possibilities here, either the explanation for everything in TRF is going to be extremely prosaic or they all were gangers ALL OF THEM from the start and they are in a time loop... possibly with the Rani, the Valeyard and Amy's House. I'm 60/40 here.

  • May 23, 2011, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Thanks, axcel1...

    by wtriker1701

    I thought I would be the only one missing "the old days"... We might have found gotli... moffatbabies... But Spud McSpud - has he been "raptured"? Is moffatbabies confirmed as our Fearless Leader? Still not sure...

  • May 23, 2011, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Liked the episode

    by Gherkin

    Like others have said, I think it seems too straightforward and dull -because- the episode is a "straightman" of sorts for the 2nd half, which will clue us in on all of the twists and turns that we have been seeing but not understanding. <br> I think the real doctor is in the Tardis, stuck in goo. The doctor we've been seeing is a doppleganger. This was why he was trembling violently when approaching the flesh - because he was of sympathetic goo. <br> Rory is empathizing because he was an Auton, a kindred of sorts. Love the way he's been written in this episode. Amy is the real Amy because I don't think an Amy ganger would see eyepatch lady. <br> As to Karen's acting, I chalk it up more to the writing. She's delivering the lines she is given. She was written as much more of a feisty wildcard from the start, but the series has taken her character in some "duller" directions.

  • May 24, 2011, 12:15 a.m. CST

    Gangers, Sexy & Amy's Baby (Spoilers & Speculation)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Here's what we know: 1) The Silents own a proto-Tardis a la the Lodger, possibly the same one. 2) proto-Tardises need someone very much like a Time-Lord as a pilot or they don't work. 3) The little girl, presumably Amy's baby, and therefore the same person as River, is very much like a TIme-Lord. And that's because she has been hanging around with him for a long time. In short, the little girl is Sexy's attempt to grow a human body capable of getting her back into the Doctor's pants. 4) Silents aren't very smart. Because of their special power they don't have to be very smart and we've certainly seen them do very dumb things. They hypnotise smart people into doing smart things for them. Their life cycle is very reminiscent of a kind of hypnotic cockroach. 5) People who are not very smart probably shouldn't be using Tardises because of the risk of causing a paradox that would explode the whole universe. 6) Silents don't like the Dr one little bit and would like to stop him. They find out from Amy that (a) he exists and (b) he's been coming to Earth for years. They also find out Amy's child is very like a Time-Lord. 7) So they sneak into the Ganger Tardis and cause the Ganger Sexy to take one of them back in time to create a space program suitable for the generation of space suits appropriate to the gestation of babies that are very like Time-Lords. Okay, I admit I lost the plot after I wrote the phrase "Ganger Sexy".

  • May 24, 2011, 1:40 a.m. CST

    Classic-style Who (E5 spoilers)

    by sunspot_mike

    Fun story and light years ahead of the Silurian two-parter (but not quits Time of Angels great.) They dialed down Amy to let plastic-man Rory become the hero. Matt Smith delivers. Authority figures and their violent solutions can't be trusted. What does it mean to be human? Some good scares and a decent cliffhanger. This was handled much better than the somewhat cheesy Doctor's Daughter. The sci-fi ideas feel like sci-fi and not magic. I hope that the dead Doctor from Utah isn't just the doppleganger (too obvious from this point on) but at least it's within the rules of the show universe and I can live with it. Not a surprise, but it's no fake regeneration ala The Stolen Earth (that one still stings a little.) And whoever is saying that the Bad Wolf and Torchwood references were subtle. Are you fucking kidding me? They beat us over the head with Bad Wolf and the Torchwood shit was shoehorned in. The eyepatch lady shows up quickly and with no one stopping and having to point it out (rewatch Boom Town for your examples of subtlety!) This is Hinchcliffe-gothic like the Rutan on Fang Rock. Great atmosphere and quality lighting. I was finding myself thinking during the season finale of Fringe (which I do love, don't get me wrong) that they could have the atmosphere, energy, and set direction of this season of Who. This story coulda used a little punch-up of the dialogue, but damn, the sets were awesome and I liked the pace that let you breathe and think about the ramifications of the Gangers (and running down corridors just feels so right, doesn't it?) And it wasn't on iTunes today so I had to bittorrent it. I'll buy the whole thing when it comes out, but I couldn't wait any longer. And I can't wait for next week and I'm dying to see what they do with "A Good Man Goes to War"!

  • May 24, 2011, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Evenin All!

    by shibleybc

    Well, i must comment on the season so far just before the half seaon break *sob* Production values are still on a high for Moffats tenure, more Mill work, especially with lots of Tardis action :) One slight production problem with the hand of the doctor moving whilst he was dead on the beach, but that could be foreshadowing or just unfamiliarity with the US crew! I have loved Matt's portrayal of the doc since the off and that does not diminish with time! Arthur is coming on from strength to strength, with every minute on screen he gets better! Amy is just a fox, and funny with it, odd behaviour this season is due to plots i reckon, oooh and her house being a tardis! ;) Two Part opener was complicated but as a kid i loved multi story lines, gawd Invasion of Time is a bugger for confusing lol COTBP was a fun one stop ep, with good humour and menace aplenty! The Doctors Wife :) :) :) what can i say, just brill, lovingly brought to the screen, beautifully written and played out on screen wonderfully! Ooooooh and the rebel flesh, well what can i say??? Bloody brill! :) Boing!

  • May 24, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST


    by axcel1

    Already, Simon?

  • Six hour time difference, almost 10 PM over there.

  • May 24, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST


    by shibleybc

    On early tomorrow, but had to post! :)

  • Good night, 3 days to go until a great Part two.

  • What is the Watch channel? If there's anybody out there.

  • May 24, 2011, 7:04 p.m. CST

    The Watch Channel...

    by Kelvington

    Watch is a general entertainment channel broadcasting in the United Kingdom and Ireland, as part of UKTV. These are also the people who have the DAVE TV channel that did the Red Dwarf Mini-series last year.

  • May 24, 2011, 7:09 p.m. CST

    why its a two parter: Forgot about the Autons?

    by chronicallydepressedlemming

    Pretty sure this is is to do the genesis of a known Who Villian justice. I think this is the beginning of the Auton race. If you remember the very first new Who episode 'Rose'. The Vat is VERY similair to the Nesteen (sp) conciousness and how it creates Autons (gangers?). Plus, I think it explains why the Doctor was so shifty about why they were there. He wants to stop the Autons becoming enemies of humans from the beginning. Thoughts?

  • May 24, 2011, 7:16 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Oh, sure... Matt moves his hand and you blame the Americans ;)

  • Thank you, sir, for the info, just wondering because that's where "Primeval" is now. I have not started to watch it yet, but, I thought it might be something to watch while waiting the 3 1/2 months for Who to return.

  • Well, some people are thinking Sontarans and some are thinking Autons, I wonder if it will be either one? Or, both? Or, neither? It boggles the mind!!

  • I get what you mean, if it were both a simple story and a "no name" villain, it would be a one-part story.

  • I'll be watching "Torchwood" during the Who down time. Almost perfect timing. Ooooooooooooo, I hope sam isn't around to read this. LOL

  • May 24, 2011, 8:48 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    Eh, watch both Torchwood and Primeval. It's stupid fun ;)

  • I will, 1 1/2 weeks until the cliffhanger.

  • May 25, 2011, 4:16 a.m. CST

    The "Autons" already had an origin in the 70's.

    by V'Shael

    This episode isn't about Sontarans or Autons. Seriously.

  • Other Who fans are thinking that. I personally think it's a "no name" villain with a very deep storyline.

  • May 25, 2011, 6:36 a.m. CST

    @Axcel1 - I never said you did.

    by V'Shael

    I always direct specific comments to people with an @ sign and their name.

  • May 25, 2011, 6:56 a.m. CST

    "My Life In Your Hands" - speculation/spoilers

    by veteran_of_mu

    Well, let's assume everything in TIA is true. That really was the doctor and he really is dead. After 1,103 years. And it sure looks like the astronaut shot him. Except there are no wounds. We saw energy pass between the astronaut and the doctor, but it's not entirely clear that the energy came from the astronaut. What if what's happening is that the doctor's life is being sucked into the astronaut suit? What if there are two people in the suit - both of whom are dying? In other words, what if the people in the suit are Amy and her baby, both on extreme life support because of some dreadful thing we haven't seen yet? The doctor says, "I thought I'd never get done saving you". Maybe it requires 2 doses of his regeneration energy to save Amy and River, and he does that so that the two of them will go on to save the other doctor. You know. The one with the red tie.

  • May 25, 2011, 7:09 a.m. CST

    What happens when a Silent sees a Weeping Angel?

    by veteran_of_mu

    Think about it. Weeping Angels turn to stone when someone sees them. So as soon as the Silent sees them they don't exist. But if they don't exist they can't see the Silent - so they forget that the Silent sees them and exist again ... It would be worse if an Angel takes over a Silent along with its power (a la Angel Bob). Because then you'll never see it ...

  • May 25, 2011, 9:14 a.m. CST

    I think we are forgetting... Aborted Timeline...

    by Kelvington

    We KNOW there will be an aborted timeline, and I suspect that's how you fix the Doctor dying when he's 1100. It probably be just that simple.

  • The TARDIS pregnancy scan definitely suggests a Schroedinger box, flipping between states. <br> We've had the comment by Rory that sometimes he can remember being an Auton. This suggests that there might be a Shroedinger's box situation going on there too, where in one case he remembers and in the other case he didn't. <br> I rewatched the latest episode last night and did catch the part that someone mentioned (sorry, I can't remember who first caught it and posted it) that the card at the house of cards in the episode briefly changed from a face card to a card with spots (8 or 9, something like that), then after they cut away and go back the card's back to being a face card. This looks to be deliberate and helping set up that the universe is oscillating between two states - the entire universe is a Shroedinger's box. <br> This might make Eyepatch Woman the hypothetical Observer from outside that Heisenberg talks about in his Uncertainty Principle. Part of her purpose might be to observe Amy to try to get her to settle into the "pregnant" option instead of the "not pregnant" option, for whatever reason. Given what they've shown, it would be reasonable to guess she's in another universe (or another dimension) observing Amy in a manner not totally unlike the stranded space ship in the pirate episode looking in on the pirate ship.

  • May 25, 2011, 10:06 a.m. CST

    One question about the Silent's comments to Amy

    by DoctorTom

    Where he told her to tell the Doctor what he must know, and what he must never know - wasn't the only thing that she mentioned after that was her being pregnant? Does this mean there's still something else that because of the posthypnotic suggestion that Amy will have to tell the Doctor later?

  • May 25, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST

    Caractuspotts - Weeping Angels get an epic fail against Silents

    by DoctorTom

    When the Silent sees the Weeping Angel, all he has to do is tell the Weeping Angel "We are always watching you". Then, when the Silent stops watching and the Angel changes back from stone, the posthypnotic suggestion kicks in and, thinking it's still being watches, it turns to stone again.

  • What I said in the above post, I shouldn't have said it that way.

  • May 25, 2011, 12:39 p.m. CST


    by Seph_J

    Most of us know who are DEFINITELY making an appearance in Episode 7, and for anyone who missed it, an official BBC video confirming it, can be found here:

  • It seems like something twisted they may have come up with to integrate media platforms.

  • Sorry, difficult resist. I hope that this doesn't turn out to be a twisted clue. Also did anyone think they would explain the reason why the world didn't end was because a girl in Scotland had a miraculous vision/visitation at her wedding - and she and the groom vanished mysteriously ?

  • The Cybermen are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But, what part do they play in the mid-season cliffhanger? I have heard rumors, but, are they right?

  • The Rebel Flesh/ Almost People may be even more important that we had previously thought. So far, everybody's talking about having a ganger Doctor around so that the Doctor can die and still be around. <br> We know that humans can project their minds into the Flesh to make gangers. Since there hadn't been a mention of this technology in later time periods (assuming it's just something that hadn't come up) then the Doctor might be trying to arrange things so that gangers have rights as sentient beings. Why? <br> Just as River, Amy and Rory are trying to save the Doctor from his death, the Doctor is trying to save River from her death. Something like the Flesh would be handy to have if you had, say, an entire Library filled with the minds and personalities of people and wanted to be able to download them from the computer into new Flesh bodies. <br> I'm not sure that the Doctor saving River will be something that they even get to this season, but Moffatt could be sowing the seeds for bringing the Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead era River Song back.

  • when the Astronaut came out to kill the Doctor then go back into the water <br> 1. What did the astronaut shoot the Doctor with? It was an extended hand bit like the Silents, but it wasn't shooting electricity like the Silents. IIRC, it didn't match up with the energy blasts the Master was putting out in The End of Time that might have been a clue to it being someone regenerating. Likewise, it isn't plain old sparkly artron energy that we see during a regeneration. (As a side point, we don't see the astronaut suit sucking in the artron energy either, so it might not be 1100+ year Doctor-in-a-life-support-suit shooting his "earlier" 1100 year self and pulling the artron energy into the suit to restore himself. <br> More importantly (and this is the thing I don't remember being asked - I apologize if someone did) <br> 2. Where did the Astronaut come from/ go back to in the water?

  • As I said before it looks very Arthurian~mythic, especially when you add the burning boat. The water/pool represents the Unconscious, especially in Jungian terms. The Doctor was a resident of Amy's Unconscious as they keep reminding us with that Amy intro. Maybe the Astronaut is not in a time or place, but rather in a memory (back to the Library!).

  • May 25, 2011, 8:04 p.m. CST

    doctortom that's an excelellent thought.

    by Smashing

    Really nicely put.

  • May 25, 2011, 10:56 p.m. CST

    For lack of a better subject... River

    by Perigee

    As few of you either care or remember, I really came on board NuWho late - as in, last year. So 11 was my NuDoctor, with Tom Baker my progenitor. I caught up in scatter-shot - in fact, I'm still catching up, on a weeny little iPod screen on my home-bound trips from work. I should be catching up faster, but I'd apparently rather spend my time repeatedly scanning Who forums here and elsewhere to pledge allegiance to the Moff. Tonight, I re-watched the library episodes, and, taken as a whole with the latest appearances, found I had irrevocably fallen in love with River Song. As a character. She's everything I've been dreaming of in a companion - effective, unflappable, stylish and straightforward - and especially with Smith, she balances out his kooky quirks beautifully. There are some pairs that are magic - Steed and Peel, for example, or Kirk and Spock, for that matter - perfect matches. At this point, I want to say Absolutely we need a Smith-Kingston season. Now. We can't wait long; River is supposed to be getting younger. For continuities sake, we would have to trade out Kingston in a very few years for a younger model, and the quality of her replacement would be a crap-shoot. Heaven forfend we end up with another "In Defense, She's A Model Not An Actress" in that role. River, as a character, is in her prime now. And, although I have no doubt we're eventually be "treated" to a tighter, more naive version of her someday, I'd hate to see what could be an epic companion whittled down to six or so story lines. That's all - no point; just a rant.

  • May 26, 2011, 8:44 a.m. CST

    I would also like River as a FT companion.

    by Smashing

    she's the perfect foil for the Doc, and Amy is just boring, looks nice, sounds funny, does little, snore. Piers Wenger has quit the show, a good sign or not?

  • May 26, 2011, 8:46 a.m. CST

    I can't remember who I emailed spoilers to...

    by V'Shael

    but whoever you were, if you're reading this... do you regret knowing what I told you about the cliffhanger which is very likely to happen at the end of this episode?

  • May 26, 2011, 9:46 a.m. CST

    v'shael... (SPOILERS)...

    by Kelvington

    I wasn't the person you mailed the spoilers to but do you mean Amy being kidnapped to take acting lessons at the end of the episode? Cause that can't come a moment too soon. LOL For the record I love Karen, but this series has not been good for her, either the writing has been too dark, or she has other stuff on her mind, but Pond was great last year, and this year... just a bit off. Perhaps the secret of knowing the Doctor's fate has been really weighing on her, but I miss the fun Pond. As for River being a companion. I think she would be almost too good as a companion, she would be saving the Doctor as much as he would be saving her. Alex is lovely and at 48 she is still young enough to play the role for years to come. But she has other acting duties and Who doesn't pay all that well. So I suspect she would always be a guess star.

  • May 26, 2011, 5:02 p.m. CST

    The Doctor Answers Your Doctor Who Questions

    by JPKk

  • May 26, 2011, 8:16 p.m. CST

    A final something new to chew on before the new docback

    by Perigee

    "Fear me: I killed all of them..." OK. Now, this is what has me confused. Timelords were everywhere, at everytime. Let's say one - we'll call him "Ted" - was playing golf with Slartibartfarst in the spring of 2795. IF The Doctor (in the TARDIS) went to Slartibartfarts's place in the spring of 2795, would Ted The Timelord be there, sipping lemonade and comparing scores, or wouldn't he? If he WASN'T - the time lock essentially locking the Timelords out of everywhere and everytime - how does anybody remember Timelords at all?

  • May 26, 2011, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Perigee... you don't get the scope of it...

    by Kelvington

    Just like in Star Trek TNG - The Surviors... with the Husnock just replace Kevin with The Doctor... it's all too easy! THE DOCTOR (breaking down) Yes! I saw her broken body. I went insane! My hatred exploded and in an instant of grief I destroyed the TIMELORDS! GENERIC COMPANION So you killed a few of your own people to protect the Rani, what's the big deal? THE DOCTOR No. You don't understand the scope of my crime. I didn't kill just one Timelord, or a hundred, or a thousand -- I killed them all. All! The TimeLadies, the TimeTots, all the Timelords everywhere! Is one small group of humans worth fifty billion? Is the love of a woman worth the destruction of an entire species... ? This is the sin I tried so hard to keep you from learning. This is why I wanted to chase you from the Rani. GENERIC COMPANION We are not qualified to be your judges. We have no law to fit your crime. You're free to return to the planet... and to make the Rani live again, with the Valeyard, in Amy's House.

  • May 26, 2011, 10:39 p.m. CST

    I get EveryWHERE.. I don't Grok EveryWHEN.

    by Perigee

    If, on Friday, June 6, 2375 Ted the Timelord was having a Toblerone with Captain Kirk... And Later, The Doctor Timelocked Ted. Or Killed Him. Whatever. And then, The Doctor went to The Enterprise on Friday June 6, 2375. Could he, or could he not play craps with Ted The Timelord on the floor of the Engineering deck? It was, after all, before the date of his death/lockout. In which case, Timelords are alivesorta. If The Doctor went to the Enterprise, and Ted wasn't there, because timelocking him stuffed Ted in a Timelordy Crack, the Captain Kirk would never have known Ted, what timelords are, and probably would never have tasted a Toblerone, and kept his fine, boyish figure.

  • May 27, 2011, 2:11 a.m. CST

    The scope of the Time War. Killing all the Time Lords.

    by V'Shael

    It's just something you're going to have to take on faith, as they've never really cared about having the rules of time travel explained in the show. But some things they've said in the past, give us some idea of what it might have been like. Gallifrey has a Transduction Barrier which prevents it's own history from being altered, even if the rest of the universe has its time line changed. There are really only a very few Time Lords who ever leave Gallifrey. It's part of their policy of non-interference. Exiles like The Rani, The Master, The Doctor, The Meddling Monk, are the extremely rare counter examples. If during the Time War, daleks were hunting down Time Lords across all time and space, we have no reason to believe that most of them wouldn't be on Gallifrey anyway. By law, if not for protection. The other rogue Time Lords out there, we also know that the Doctors Tardis must remain relative to their timelines if they ever meet. The Doctor can't go into the Masters past, and kill him, for example. (Or alter his mind, or alter events so his evil plans fail). This most recent "rule" was in a Tennant episode, after all. So, there may be some years out there, where the rogue Time Lords are flitting in and out along their own personal timeline, but they are just as locked off to the Doctor, as the Time War itself. This is just speculation on my part, isn't meant to be logically consistent and to withstand all assaults so don't waste your breath trying. I'm just trying to point out how it could work, given the info we have, not how it DID work.

  • May 27, 2011, 6:52 a.m. CST


    by Perigee

    Wheee - Friday, and a fresh page due any minute now. I'm too lazy to be first, but I'm always easily late enough to be last. I declare this thread recessed. Recess!!! Wooo! Get out the big red rubber balls - kickball!!

  • We don't have our new thread yet, which raises the question Where Is It????

  • May 27, 2011, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Grrrr, "thread's", not "threads".

    by DoctorTom

    We need edit buttons for our posts!!!!!!

  • May 27, 2011, 10:55 a.m. CST

    I'd go with V'Shael's explanation.

    by DoctorTom

    As he said, there weren't that many renegade Time Lords, it only *seemed* like half the population were renegades. <br> If the Time Lords were doing things like resurrecting the Master to help fight the Time War and woke up Rassilon, they most likely were granting amnesty to any other renegades who would help. They were probably resurrecting any other ones that they could - Morbius and the like. <br> Daleks would most likely also be hunting any rogue Time Lords that were off by themselves, if for no other reason than to get hold of their TARDISes (presumably they wanted to do some "field testing" of their TARDIS destroying weapons in relatively isolated circumstances, at least isolated compared to dropping in on Gallifrey itself and running into hundreds of them. (This raises the side question of what *did* happen to the Master's TARDIS - did the Daleks get hold of it back when they put him on trial back with the Paul McGann movie?) <br> Time Lords have the ability to tell if there's other Time Lords around - the Doctor mentioned in nu-Who he'd know if they were around. If there were any around still they'd had to have used chameleon arches and would theoretically not be Time Lords any more.

  • Last!

  • March 21, 2012, 12:09 p.m. CST

    There's always one, though, isn't there?

    by V'Shael

    Who fucks up The Masters plan....