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Saturday Is "Day Of The Moon" On DOCTOR WHO Season/Series 6!! Reader Reactions Here!!

Published at: April 29, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST by merrick

 

 

 

 

 

Merrick here...(and no, that's not me in the pic...)

Saturday April 30 reveals "Day of the Moon" - the second installment of DOCTOR WHO's two part season/series opener. 

All in all, this episode advances a considerably different tone than Part 1 ("The Impossible Astronaut") and, in several regards, sets the new season/series into motion much more than last week's show did. 

In fact, I really, really wish they'd run both installments on the same night - I think some people's criticism of the "The Impossible Astronaut" ('not enough happens!'...'we've seen most of this episode in previews!'...etc.) might possibly have been negated.  These two installments work very well together in-concert. 

 

NOTE ABOUT SPOILERS: 

U.S. READERS:  Pease remember that the U.K. broadcast of DOCTOR WHO transpires a number of hours before BBC America's U.S. airing.  As such, you can expect SPOILERS for this new episode to begin appearing in the Talkbacks below 'round late morning U.S. time tomorrow (Saturday)...i.e. when the show broadcasts in U.K...perhaps even earlier (some Talkbackers have seen it already).

However, U.K. readers should feel free to consider this a SPOILER INTENSIVE ZONE as soon as the episode debuts in the U.K.

Enjoy! 

--- follow Merrick on Twitter ! —

 

 

 

coming next week: 

Season/Series 6, Episode 3: "The Curse of the Black Spot"

 

 

Season/Series 6 Episode 1, "The Impossible Astronaut"

can be found HERE in HD, and HERE in standard def.  

 

Readers Talkback

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  • April 29, 2011, 11:25 a.m. CST

    some things don't yet add up

    by captain_kirk

    as i was pondering the episode, I wonder why the doctor, if he aged 200 years, would rely on people from a previous timeframe in his life. It makes me thing that #2 wasn't really 1100, but 909. as amusing as it was, I'd also wonder why the doctor wouldn't just pick everyone up and bring them to the desert. Why the invitations, first of all. and, more importantly, why all of the messages? and, perhaps most significantly, how did Hal Roach let Matt Smith into that scene?

  • April 29, 2011, 11:26 a.m. CST

    Looking forwards

    by HewligansHaircut

    Looking forwards to part two. Bring it on!

  • April 29, 2011, 11:29 a.m. CST

    The Doc Back starts here !!!!

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Thats about all I have to say for now ---except----keep watching the bow ties !!!!

  • April 29, 2011, 11:30 a.m. CST

    New star wars prequel movies - a what if question

    by HewligansHaircut

    So, here's a thought. If George Lucas was to report that he was going to remake the prequels, taking into account how bad the original prequels were. That he was going to totally throw any story, character or structure away and start again, would the people of aicn be happy, sad or just wary of these new films? What do you think? Would you give him a second chance to try again?

  • April 29, 2011, 11:30 a.m. CST

    New star wars prequel movies - a what if question

    by HewligansHaircut

    So, here's a thought. If George Lucas was to report that he was going to remake the prequels, taking into account how bad the original prequels were. That he was going to totally throw any story, character or structure away and start again, would the people of aicn be happy, sad or just wary of these new films? What do you think? Would you give him a second chance to try again?

  • April 29, 2011, 11:31 a.m. CST

    Any chance Amy and Rory will be gone by next year ...

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    They are holding back Smith's Doctor .... Hes great but without them stinking up the screen his run could be the stuff of legend. I'm sure they are very nice people but how they got this gig with such basic acting skills is beyond me ......

  • April 29, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    All Spoiler-Happy People Will Be EXTERMINATED

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I don't care who you are, how long you've been posting on AICN, or how much money you've got in your bank account. If anyone decides to spoil anything for the rest of us, I'm going to stalk your TB handle and tear three new assholes of your face. I'm then going to Sony Network your computer, find out where you live, and send toothless whores to your house every night. There will be no other warnings.

  • April 29, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Rory is the heart of the show, ginge_muppet!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I don't get why some people don't like Rory. For me, he's the guy who represents the audience. He asks the questions we'd ask and is constantly out of his depth yet somehow pulls through. More than that; he's the heart of the show! Look at his reaction, in the previous episode, to River's statement about what The Doctor does to a young girl. If you didn't feel sorry for the guy then you have NO soul. LONG LIVE RORY THE ROMAN!

  • Diabetic.

  • April 29, 2011, 11:54 a.m. CST

    With regards to spoilers...

    by Seph_J

    just don't. There's no need for it.

  • April 29, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST

    More Importantly Thank Discussing The Ep...

    by ThomasFlynn

    Anyone else feel just god damn awful for the dalek in that pic? I mean seriously, if there was ever a call for a mercy killing, this would be it.

  • April 29, 2011, 11:56 a.m. CST

    I'm with you, christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by ThomasFlynn

    I think Rory's a "dark horse" when it comes to companions. And I think he will continue to prove his worth in the coming eps.

  • April 29, 2011, 11:59 a.m. CST

    christian_bale_trashed_my_lights

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    Rory has his moments, but his painful-to-watch 'relationship' with Amy imo is holding the show back. Karen seems very likeable in interviews but a better actress would be taking these stories to a different level.

  • April 29, 2011, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Another lingering question...

    by ThomasFlynn

    Where is the 1,100 year old Doc's TARDIS? Someone on twitter asked that question and Moffat acknowledged it: "Probably you ought to keep watching, or something." http://twitter.com/#!/steven_moffat/status/63718334058864641 Hopefully that's no lip service. with Moffat, I don't think it is.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:18 p.m. CST

    thomasflynn / ginge_muppet

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    thomasflynn: I agree. I think he'll prove himself after being underestimated. Something that will shock everyone and cast him in a new light. ginge_muppet: I'm genuinely interested in how you think their relationship is holding the show back seeing as last season's main story arc revolved around, and ultimately concluded with, their wedding (thus pushing the show's plot forward) and "Amy's Choice" (one of the best episodes from last season) depended entirely upon their relationship. I love the idea of The Doctor travelling with a married couple!

  • April 29, 2011, 12:19 p.m. CST

    thomasflynn (Part 2)

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Okay, that Twitter response is interesting. Could mean nothing but, then again... I previously dismissed those who questioned where Future Doc's TARDIS was. Seems I might have been wrong.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Christian Bale

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Totally agree with you about the spoilers but not sure that toothless whores is a decent threat ? mmmm---toothless whores !!!

  • April 29, 2011, 12:24 p.m. CST

    In fact how about

    by 2LeggedFreak

  • April 29, 2011, 12:24 p.m. CST

    In fact how about

    by 2LeggedFreak

  • April 29, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST

    'wedding dalek'

    by Seph_J

    "Get this shit offff meeeee!"

  • April 29, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST

    In fact how about

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Spoiler-monkeys get locked in a room for a night with dioxholster wilst he shows them a powerpoint presentation of photos from the Stargate conventions he's attended and his collection of items recovered from Amanda Tappings trash can.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:28 p.m. CST

    23.5 hours until

    by Seph_J

    Day of the Moon. NOT Dark of the Moon.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:30 p.m. CST

    "I love the idea of The Doctor travelling with a married couple! "

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    Me too mate .... Just not the couple they came up with. They have no chemistry, the love is all one-way ... Every single time Amy looks at Rory there is nothing behind her eyes (which is where a better actress comes into play) This series and last are being built around two characters I find weak and just can't connect with ... You said : "last season's main story arc revolved around, and ultimately concluded with, their wedding" and thats where it falls apart imo .... you ALWAYS get the feeling Amy would dump Rory in a SECOND if the Doctor asked for some Tardis loving. I'm looking forward to Smith being free of them in years to come but like I said ... thats just me.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:34 p.m. CST

    ginge has a point.

    by Seph_J

    Smith is being backed up by the writing, but NOT by the companions yet. I always get the feeling that Amy and Rory are a poor mans Sally and Larry.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:36 p.m. CST

    Did some thinking about the Doctor getting killed

    by Christopher Bynum

    Could the younger Doctor have materialized the TARDIS under the water of the lake, put the astronaut suit on, and shot his future self? Then he takes the TARDIS back to the diner to meet Amy, River, and Rory? Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but it would explain where the astronaut goes after River stops shooting at it.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:37 p.m. CST

    2leggedfreak

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    LOL!! We probably shouldn't use you-know-who's name. It's almost tempting him to show up. He's like a retarded, SGU-obsessed version of the Candyman.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:37 p.m. CST

    MY DIG-NITY IS IM-PAIRED!!!!!

    by Christopher Bynum

  • April 29, 2011, 12:37 p.m. CST

    it would also explain the straw..

    by Seph_J

    ...as in he was breathing through it...

  • April 29, 2011, 12:42 p.m. CST

    I'm sure there is a reason captain_kirk

    by Will

    It always seem like there is a reason for what happens on the show. I think he really was 200 years older, and on the run, and I'm pretty sure it was from the 'aliens at the top of stairs' from last season. The one where the Doctor lives in the flat with losery guy. The ship underground in TIA was the same from that show. So this all ties in to last year. He probably needed to send invitations the way he did to make sure everyone got together before 'the lake scene'.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:44 p.m. CST

    ginge_muppet

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I do agree with you that Ms. Gillan doesn't have a great deal of chemistry with Darvill. However, I do think that "Amy's Choice" demonstrated that, whilst Amy undeniably has a thing for The Doctor, she does truly love poor old Rory. The scene where she states "If this is reality then I don't want it", finally settled any qualms there for me. I'd also add that whilst Amy might not show much appreciation for Rory, I think Arthur Darvill plays Rory brilliantly as the lovestruck guy who puts up with anything to be with the one he loves. I totally believe that the guy would put up with all of Amy's remarks and wait hundreds of years for her. Hell, for a pair of legs like that, I probably would too. But yeah, each to our own.

  • April 29, 2011, 12:56 p.m. CST

    Amy & Rory....

    by blackflowerX

    I can't stand them (especially Rory, he's like a block of wood).<BR><BR> Did anyone else think that guy in the pic with the "Wedding Dalek" was Neil Morrissey? LOL

  • April 29, 2011, 1 p.m. CST

    I would love to see a fan film of a Dalek attacking the Royal Wedding

    by THAT_SAID_THE_CHOPPAH

    The "Royal" family?! What a bleeding joke!!!

  • April 29, 2011, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Why was there an astronaut in a lake?

    by unfaithfullyyours

    And what did it use to shoot the dr? Do all future drs wear hats?

  • April 29, 2011, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Ginge Muppet, I totally agree

    by THAT_SAID_THE_CHOPPAH

    I like Amy, but Rory just doesn't work. How I would have done it is have the Doctor let Rory and Amy live happily ever after. But, obviously the Doctor is not done with Amy and she still factors into the grand scheme of things. So, in the second season I could have the Doctor go back and work with a pre-marriage Amy.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Oh, and never thought I'd see a gay Dalek

    by THAT_SAID_THE_CHOPPAH

    Hope I never see one again!

  • April 29, 2011, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Great Picture, thanks for that

    by alexander

  • they will happily serve you cakes and shit

  • April 29, 2011, 1:13 p.m. CST

    about the future dalek

    by jon pertwee

    river song has it.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:13 p.m. CST

    will keep watching the bow ties 2LF

    by alexander

    watching Amys Choice tonight

  • April 29, 2011, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Two hundred years...

    by HornOrSilk

    I'm wondering, what if he is in prison for most of those years? Maybe that's why he goes back...

  • April 29, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Rory is great, Amy not so great imo

    by HornOrSilk

    I think Rory shows all the qualities of a great companion. He is loyal, he is strong, he can be afraid but will push beyond it when the time comes -- a true hero. Amy is just selfish, self-centered, and would marry herself in a flash.... if she could.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Gay Daleks ruled British TV for a while...

    by Seph_J

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfxyvrW-lUs

  • April 29, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Agreed on Rory. I wasn't a big fan of Amy last season but she's better this year.

    by RICHARD_GERE_RAPED_MY_GERBIL

    I have to admit that I pretty much loathed the character of Amy last season. Sure, she was hot looking but the character really grated on me. I very much enjoyed the Christmas Special because of her reduced screen time. However, I went back and watched the entire season all over again and, when I watched the episodes (pretty much) back-to-back, I found that she didn't annoy me as much. "The Impossible Astronaut" was the first episode where I felt as though she'd been dialed back a bit and was all the more enjoyable for it. Rory is great though. I really like that character.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Maybe the answer is in the spit....

    by HornOrSilk

    Why did Matt Smith's Doctor spit on the TARDIS console right after regeneration?

  • April 29, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by Seph_J

    I'm sure if you actually knew you'd tell us all - whether we wanted to know or not.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Doctor Who is the new Lost for me!!!

    by Eternal Optimist

    Steven Moffat's Doctor Who has become the new... and equally fascinating... Lost! I used to enjoy thinking between the episodes about the mysteries which Lost teased me with, and try to make sense of what was going on in certain scenes. The all new Doctor Who is giving me the same sense of... excitement and anticipation! Lots of questions to think about it! I've heard some people say that Who has become too complicated but I think that's... nonsense! Keep flying your TARDIS, Doctor Who! Steven Moffat, I salute you! I can't give this show enough... space and time.... because it simply is... FANTASTIC!

  • April 29, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    thing is... Doctor Who ANSWERS its questions

    by Seph_J

    and has it's storylines planned out in advance. Lost didn't.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Right about that, Seph

    by HornOrSilk

    The plot has actually been thought out -- unlike Galactica, Lost, and many other wannabe mysteries. The last time the US had a show where the plot was outline this far in advance, it was with Babylon 5.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    the current plot goes all the way back to

    by Seph_J

    Silence in the Library with River Song and the future "my" doctor and the new sonic screwdriver. Quite something, to not only continue the plot over so long, but to carry it on during a transition of show runners too.... quite brilliant.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    That's true, Seph_J!!!

    by Eternal Optimist

    And that's what makes the current Who... even better!!! I hope there are still some storylines that will cross over... into the next exciting season of Doctor Who!!! In Moffat I trust!!!

  • April 29, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    im thinking future unresolved points....

    by Seph_J

    why the collective amnesia amongst the people of London of the Cyberking incident, and what became of the deification of the Doctor Donna in ancient Rome......

  • April 29, 2011, 1:56 p.m. CST

    They'll never have River say it outwardly

    by ThomasFlynn

    But it would be great to hear her make a passing reference to other past Doctors "Did we do the (Insert Adventure name here)? Oh wait, that's right. That was with your fourth self. Silly me." Even Alex Kingston has supposed (in interviews) that River has met more than just the 11th and 10th incarnations.

  • April 29, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    Amy likes him enough to get knocked up..

    by xombygodd

    Although he was plastic or, is plastic? I agree Amy has a crush on the Dr. much as I do on any hot Asian chick, But much like Amy I know it would never work. As all Asians get fat and ugly and the Dr. will eventually either change by getting killed or outgrow her. Whereas Rory is there and safe and loves her. And. Umm Asian chicks, I gotta go to the bathroom.

  • and their relationship, particularly also with the Doctor factored in, and in relation to the larger events/thread going on were not aware of yet.. ... it could just be me but... be patient people... although having said that, this could be the episode that drops the bomb on all or most of those things

  • April 29, 2011, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Missing Phone Boxes, Gay Daleks, Astronauts In Lakes, The Nature Of Love, Asian Chicks....

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Welcome to another exciting chapter of... THE AICN DOCBACK!

  • April 29, 2011, 2:17 p.m. CST

    Catching Up, and I Am Reminded of Angel

    by RogerOThornhill

    Two doctors; a cloned daughter who is coming back just before the season break; Amy's possible daughter, who could also (possibly) be River; the Silence going way back, with the ability to plant suggestions in people's minds--I've been inhaling a lot here, and three things stand out: (1) Are we sure that the Valyard arrives between the 12th and 13th incarnations, and not between the 11th and 12th? With genetic material floating around, two doctors, and the Dream Lord in "Amy's Choice" last season, it really seems as if we are heading toward some kind of good doctor/bad doctor thing here; (2) Last week someone suggested in talkback that Amy's daughter/River will be raised by the Valyard. Are we slipping into a Conor from Angel situation here, that also somehow ties into the desert assassination? (2) The way River spoke as she was opening the vault, I almost thought she was Amy rather than Amy's daughter, but that's not possible, right? She didn't recognize Rory when she first saw him, did she? It was weird, though, just a flicker. Well, in any case we all now know the penultimate scene in the last episode this fall. They must have already shot the other angles of that assassination scene already, the ones that tell us what is really going on, so they don't have to go back to the location. Whether it's a John Ford reference or a Road Runner reference, I love that they used Monument Valley.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:03 a.m. CST

    Morning All

    by shibleybc

    Well i have an interesting theory about where the second Tardis might be! :P

  • April 30, 2011, 6:06 a.m. CST

    6 hours :)

    by shibleybc

  • April 30, 2011, 6:10 a.m. CST

    Roger -- don't assume

    by HornOrSilk

    That could be the end of the 11th Doctor we saw. SM could be that crafty so as to have the 11th Doctor's death shown in the middle of his run. If this is the case we won't know why he goes back until Matt decides to leave. SM is known, however, to think out of the box, and this would be one way to do it. To make us focus on something which will not be answered until later... while the real story is going on before us.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:15 a.m. CST

    Yay...... docback!

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Hey everyone. Pardon my absence. I needed time to recover after that Lis Sladen tribute prog. I'm ok now. And I'll be even better in less than 6 hours time. :)

  • however what if that's because she shares qualities with the Doctor others have noted before, how he doesn't even appear to notice you sometimes etc. despite them knowing he does truly care for them, for example? What might that possibly suggest if anything?

  • but those daleks, they really do only know how to blow, as in suck off, the cold calculating Fascistic machine mindset that powers their proud flag waving nati- i mean race.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:31 a.m. CST

    alan_grant_lives

    by HornOrSilk

    I think it has more to do with the actress not being too good, and is more of a blank face than anything else -- Karen has said more than once she believes Amy is deeply in love with Rory. Of course, I think there is an aspect that Amy is also self-centered...

  • April 30, 2011, 6:37 a.m. CST

    What the fuck was up with this site?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I was enjoying Docbacking when suddenly I could post anything for hours. It's totally spoilt the momentum. Oh, and rogerothornhill, if that's a fucking spoiler in the first line of your post then I'm going to EXTERMINATE you.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Good Morning, alan_grant_lives!

    by Perigee

    Sounds like that second cup of coffee kicked in. ~grin~

  • April 30, 2011, 6:43 a.m. CST

    fucking stupid none posting site load of shite site!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    There! Got that out of my system.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:45 a.m. CST

    well, offend the missus or their own patriotic sensibilities

    by alexander

    so get called gay cos everyone's far too weak minded to stick up for a homosexual, or put up resistance to any actual real obvious apparent threats to yourselves or evil co-ercions you are being forced to make in government etc.... Britain: The Classy Bird who loves and takes anal sex and willingly gives blow jobs for her proud semi-co-erced-into-casual-gradual-eroding-of-basic-freedoms-and-civil-libertys- nation, but who all the while has to put up with those annoying evil dalek fags, presumably because she's comatose and doesn't understand fear as a commodity and works really frickin hard 9-5 and just wants to get pissed after a hard days work dammit... ...ill shut up now... after saying that this is why for me if you think Daleks are Gay and buy that as opposed to whats depicted in that photo above then I think you truly suck Satans cock! Done. Back to actual Who discussion now.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:45 a.m. CST

    And Good Morning, Sammy.

    by Perigee

    Just hit the box there, on the side. It nearly always works for me. Welcome to Moon Day.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:45 a.m. CST

    Hey Purple

    by shibleybc

    and perigee i agree, it's either a coffee rush or he's had to many e - numbers! Hmmmm i wonder if e-numbers originate in e-space? Just over 5 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wheres SJW?

  • April 30, 2011, 6:45 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk - your doc death theory.......

    by sam jacksons wig

    I am presuming that you are tying it in with the end of episode 2? If not, then where the fuck is doc 12 coming from? Dead in the middle of regeneration is not a good way to come back....

  • April 30, 2011, 6:47 a.m. CST

    Did someone suggest that Amy sucks?????????

    by shibleybc

    Hmmmmmmmmm, careful with this one! Frozen will be on later! ;)

  • April 30, 2011, 6:48 a.m. CST

    Shibs- and your theory is? I have one too and it's very spoilerish...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...so I wont be posting it here. I am being a good little wig....

  • those spoilers people mentioned being posted last week

  • April 30, 2011, 6:50 a.m. CST

    christian_bale- he's just theorising a couple of things.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 6:51 a.m. CST

    5 hours to go...

    by V'Shael

    and I'm in the UK for this one... Must get the beer in...

  • April 30, 2011, 6:52 a.m. CST

    SJW

    by shibleybc

    Amy's House :P

  • April 30, 2011, 6:53 a.m. CST

    v'shael

    by shibleybc

    Where am ya sir?

  • April 30, 2011, 6:54 a.m. CST

    Amy

    by alpha

    Cant believe people are hating on her ... one of the better companions of the new version. Certainly better than someone like Donna.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:54 a.m. CST

    5 hrs to go DocBackers!!!!

    by Gabba-UK

    3 more at work for me, 1.5 cycling home, quick shower, Doctor Who, rest of bank holiday off. Result!!

  • April 30, 2011, 6:56 a.m. CST

    alan_grant_lives - Amy/Rory...

    by sam jacksons wig

    .....then why would she invite him along for the ride? Why not just leave him at home knowing she could return to him at exactly the same time she left? Why get married and move in together? (I still think there is something in the 2 months we are told they are away from the Doc...) No- she loves him. But compared to the Doc...as with all of the other nu-who companions.... he is just not very exciting. Being together may be her way of holding onto him.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:57 a.m. CST

    Shibs!!! NOOOOOOO! You owe us too much already!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Don't sell your soul!!!!

  • April 30, 2011, 6:57 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by HornOrSilk

    No. I am saying --what if SM has shown us the future of the 11th Doctor and we won't find out how the Doctor is able to be saved until Matt Smith decides to leave? What if it is a big story plan which has preset the regeneration sequence, but we still have to get there, to find out why the Doctor will, in the end, accept that death. In other words, we need to think out of the box. Why does the regeneration itself have to be shown at the end of the Doctor's era? Of course it might not run this way, but it would be a way for SM to tell us -- don't presume anything.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:58 a.m. CST

    Wifes birtday today. Going out for a meal later. After Doctor Who....

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 7 a.m. CST

    SJW, like your thinking on that one!

    by shibleybc

    although it would be terribly cruel knowing how it would happen and just not when! :(

  • April 30, 2011, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Love Abides

    by Perigee

    Nothing about the Amy/Rory relationship seems terribly unusual to me - especially since they've known each other forever. Any relationship I've ever been in for over three years loses the obvious, external kissykissyhuggytouchyoochykoochy saccarine that so irritated our friends, and settled in to a comfortable alliance. It didn't change our feelings for each other - we just didn't feel the need to telegraph it, sickeningly, to the entire world on a moment-to-moment basis. Go, Amy and Rory - I'm liking him more and more every episode.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:05 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk- do you not think it would be anti-climatical?

    by sam jacksons wig

    I realise that SM does not have to (and has not in the past) adhere to the rules, especially of "Regeneration at the end of a Docs era", but an intro to a new Doc at the beginning of an old Docs series... ....just don't know how that would fit. We need a clean start when Smith decides to leave, and judging by how good he is and is likely to get, a HUUUGE clean push for whoever follows. Sorry, just can't see it happening mate.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:05 a.m. CST

    4 Hours 56 mins! :)

    by shibleybc

  • April 30, 2011, 7:09 a.m. CST

    perigee- with you on that one all the way, mate!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Rory is becoming more and more palatable each time I see him. Both characters are becoming more and more fully fleshed out. I would get used to them now, as I have a funny feeling that we wont be seeing too much of them next season......

  • April 30, 2011, 7:10 a.m. CST

    4 hours 50 mins!

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Btw, I don't know if this has been said, but to those visiting this fair country I'd like you to know that "Don't Scare The Hare" isn't normal telly for us. Unless you were here in the 90's, in which case it was very typical.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:11 a.m. CST

    christian_bale- can you believe that TWAT on the trannyformers TB??

    by sam jacksons wig

    just had tro hand the fucker his arse in susequent posts that followed. DON'T MESS WITH THE WIG!!!! Thanks for the support over there, by the way!

  • April 30, 2011, 7:16 a.m. CST

    purple - I fucking ranted about that show last week!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Oh man! I forgot that load of old shit was on before hand! I am going to drug my youngest so she doesn't watch it!! My wife said to me last week.."Jesus! Why would you humiliate yourself like that over £15k between 3?" I said "Becasue it's £15k between 3." For an easy £5k I would eat a bag of Hare Shit.....

  • April 30, 2011, 7:21 a.m. CST

    oh so the sites working again and I can post

    by Seph_J

    well thats good.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:21 a.m. CST

    Not necessarily anti-climatic

    by HornOrSilk

    It would depend upon how it is done. Since we already have it shown that the Doctor is not expected to regenerate, it could be quite -- heroic -- of the Doctor to go to his death -- once he learns it is time and he himself thinks he won't live beyond it. It depends upon what is at stake that he is forced to do that -- and why he thinks it will save the day. There can be a lot more gravitas here, because the Doctor truly thinks he is going to die.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:21 a.m. CST

    LOL Hare thingy

    by shibleybc

    Met up with Frozen to watch this and i arrived with about ten mins of the show left and i sat and cringed at how embarassing UK TV was coming across, then the Lis Sladen dedication came on the screen and i relaxed as some very capable hands took over the reigns! :) And i count among those hands both Karen and Arthur, they are fast becoming very comfortable in their respective shoes and if things appear occasionally odd then i bet thats just the Moff fucking with us for later! Long live who! :)

  • April 30, 2011, 7:22 a.m. CST

    Moreover, it would mirror what SM has done with River Song

    by HornOrSilk

    We already know how she will die...

  • April 30, 2011, 7:24 a.m. CST

    it is nice

    by Seph_J

    to be confident enough in the show runner to put any issues we have with the show down to him being clevererer than us and having something up his sleeve. That speaks volumes about the respect Moff has got from us.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:30 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk-not knowing how the Doc will die is part of the appeal.

    by sam jacksons wig

    One could argue that Tennant when his time was up, we knew he was going to bite it. Yes, we did, but we didn't quite know how. The tie in with Wilf was rather good; killed by someone you love. I burst into tears when Tom Bakers Doc fell to his death. If I had known about it I would not have felt half the emotion. The Docs death does need to be an event in order to close the era and begin a new one. I can't see Smith going out this way- with a whimper rather than a bang.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:31 a.m. CST

    Don't Scare the...? I don't even...

    by Perigee

    Thanks so much for injecting that into my consciousness; a quick trip to youtube has cemented that into my experience now.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:33 a.m. CST

    But we don't know when the Doctor will die

    by HornOrSilk

    We know how he will die, but not really when it will happen, all in the same time. And we really don't know how he will survive. Well, that is, if my theory is what happens. Again, part of the fun this time is all the mystery which can really be pushed until the time comes for the Doctor's death.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Seph- I trust him implicitly to give us the best Who ever made.

    by sam jacksons wig

    I believe that Moff will etch Nu-wHO into history, and that Matt mith is destined to become the greatest Doctor. And this is from someone who thought that Tom Baker would remain untouchable until the end of time (not the Tennant episode either!!)

  • April 30, 2011, 7:38 a.m. CST

    perigee- you only have yourself to blame....

    by sam jacksons wig

    I ranted last week jus how fucking horrible it was. Watched the Masterchef final, and one of the cooks was preparing a Hare dish. I sdaid to my wife "if only it was that robotic metal bastard!" She sid "Yes, but it wouldn't taste very nice..." "Tchoi!!! Women!!! ;) I now want to destroy all Hares as a result, not just the metal bastard.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Shibley

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    You met Frozen? Excellent Did you explain that "Don't Scare The Hare" wasn't normal at all?

  • April 30, 2011, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Introduce the Hare to Who...

    by Perigee

    K9 with anger management issues.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:42 a.m. CST

    SJW

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    It is beyond horrible isn't it. Sue Perkins should know better.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:45 a.m. CST

    Introducing.. the most perfect killer ever... on Doctor Who..

    by HornOrSilk

    http://tinyurl.com/3bsgjdg It's a hare raising experience.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:47 a.m. CST

    Hornorsilk

    by Gareth Murphy

    That's an interesting theory, and would be a very brave plot development (ie; viewers wouldn't get any kind of resolution for quite some time). But there's a flaw - the future Doctor is very specific about his age, 200 years older than the 'present' Doctor. This means the 'present' doctor would have 200 years left before his regeneration on the beach - and we would have 200 years left of waiting. I know it's easy to skip over bits and pieces...but 200 years? Not easily or practically managed.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Purple - I was very lucky!

    by shibleybc

    We went to the Doctor Who Exhibition in London it was bloody brilliant and i can recommend it to anyone! In fact if you dont all go i will send round some toothless whores......wait a minute, weve discovered that doesnt work! Ah well i will send round a robot Hare! You get to pilate a TARDIS and be chased by angels! There are lots of pics on Facebook! if anyone wants to look its http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/media/set/fbx/?set=a.10150162238115846.299284.595870845 dunno if that will work but hey ho!

  • April 30, 2011, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Bastards turned me into a kid

    by shibleybc

    and then charged me an adult ticket :P

  • April 30, 2011, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Cool Shibley

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I'm going to get there sometime this summer.

  • This is just my opinion, but, remember, Amy is the only companion to meet the Doctor as a child first, then, as an adult. To Amy, the Doctor was both, a real person and her "imaginary friend". She made drawings, a toy figure of him, In "Eleventh Hour", everyone was surprised when Amy's "imaginary friend" was real. That's why Amy's reaction to the Doctor's death was very different from Rory's and River's reaction. To Amy, imaginary friends don't die. Oh, and, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks Rory is a great companion, our "everyman" companion. And, I like Amy because she is not the "perfect" companion, you never know what she's going to do next. Just my two cents, Hmmm, in the UK, would that be, "just my 2 pence?

  • April 30, 2011, 7:54 a.m. CST

    purple- so horrible I want to put it in a pan and boil the bastard.

    by sam jacksons wig

    But I wouldbe electrocuted as a result so I wont bother.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:54 a.m. CST

    The age doesn't have to be the truth

    by HornOrSilk

    The Doctor constantly lies about his age. Moreover, even if that were the case, it would be even more why the 11th Doctor said he had been running for so long; he would know it is coming and yet he might have been trying to find a way out of it. Finally, we won't know when Matt will leave, so we won't know until then how it would work out...

  • April 30, 2011, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Rich

    by shibleybc

    Two cents is fine by me! I'm all sidewalky and tailpipey now sir!

  • April 30, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST

    Oh, and btw, most Doctors

    by HornOrSilk

    Have years (if not hundreds of years) of adventures we don't see on TV. Though I wonder if we might not see many of those years drained away when the Doctor is in prison for a "long, long time." Which prison?

  • April 30, 2011, 8:02 a.m. CST

    talk of Kate and William crashed AICN or something apparantl

    by alexander

  • April 30, 2011, 8:02 a.m. CST

    y

    by alexander

  • April 30, 2011, 8:10 a.m. CST

    perigee

    by alexander

    god i miss coffee... oolong tea, i am just drinking my first cup now... I got restricted from posting anything last night and subsequently being able to do any work since webpages etc were not updating or doing their best to remove all my account activities so what your detecting maybe a hangover met with latent-begrudgement at 'locked doors' and hacking attempts... screw Google Chrome, its made infiltration and stalking attempts for my computers online activity at least twice as bad as it usually is. Back with a nice update of Firefox.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:12 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk we will find out tonight/tommorow I guess!

    by alexander

  • April 30, 2011, 8:14 a.m. CST

    axcel- something has always bothered me about the raggedy doctor...

    by sam jacksons wig

    The Doctor wasn't new. He had saved the world countless times. They had been well documented. Most people on the planet knew of him. Why didn't her family belive Amy about her imaginary friend the Doctor and his blue box? And before we start saying cracks in time wpied out memories et.c, no. Her drawings, puppets et.c would have given testament to his existance. People would have remembered the box. Unless this is ALL an alternative reality on the other side of one of those cracks where the Doc didn't exist and he is coming face to face with the one that does. That would explain why the memories of the Daleks and Cybermen would not exist. Just a thought.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:15 a.m. CST

    I don't think we will find out tonight

    by HornOrSilk

    Even if I am wrong with it being the end of the 11th Doctor, I don't think we will come to the point in the Doctor's time when this happens tonight.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:15 a.m. CST

    All things considered...

    by Kelvington

    This thread is ALREADY way too long for an episode that has neither aired, no has a review on it. Well done Doctor, well done!

  • April 30, 2011, 8:18 a.m. CST

    3 hours 43 mins :)

    by shibleybc

    Stoked is hardly the word! :)

  • April 30, 2011, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Something which has bothered me is the "logo" for the season

    by HornOrSilk

    Trust your Doctor.... Sounds like a clue for something. Plus, some versions of the picture looked like the Doctor was standing between two versions of the same scene, one in dark, one in light, making me think -- what if the Doctor turns evil this season? What if that is the big surprise for the end of episode 7? (Just thinking of possibilities out loud)

  • April 30, 2011, 8:21 a.m. CST

    What time does it air in the UK?

    by Rebel Scumb

    I'm in Canada but will be torrenting it from the UK broadcast, just want to know what time I should expect to find it. I haven't watched Impossible astronaut yet either, having people over to watch both back to back.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:24 a.m. CST

    6pm to 6.45, rebel scumb

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    aka... in 3 hours 36 mins

  • April 30, 2011, 8:25 a.m. CST

    Honorsilk is right! Rory is a great companion!

    by Kauzi Sezso

    Amy, as a companion, is ok, but Rory is one of the best companions ever in the show, classic or new. He's smart, funny, noble, decent, and really seems to enjoy travelling with the Doctor. I hope Rory stays around for a good, long time, whether Amy sticks around or not.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:32 a.m. CST

    shibleybc

    by alexander

    is it really hard to figure out? I wish homophobes would drop dead, as do i people who think comparing Daleks to gays and Daleks to people who typically love a young Royals wedding in the present and effectively worshipping the royal family and saying "this. this right here is Britain so I'm going to proudly wave my flag and paint/wrap around everything in the british flag" are the same thing. The human Race would be so much better of without these people, hence wanting them to drop dead not very Doctorish thing to say i know but... or send Captain America round to bitch slap them and explain what true patriotism is... that would be really cool because he is American and so they feel especially patronised by him while being served their nazism order. ... i think people are clearly on too many e numbers and coffee and booze and the like themselves if they can't clearly understand that, and suck the overlords fat one quite frankly. Ho hum.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:36 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by alexander

    i guess were getting into semantics about what true love is now, but no... i kind of totally agree with what your saying and your points

  • April 30, 2011, 8:36 a.m. CST

    Errrr.....

    by shibleybc

    Not sure how to respond to that

  • April 30, 2011, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Alan GL

    by shibleybc

    Where did i provoke that comment LOL

  • April 30, 2011, 8:39 a.m. CST

    A few responses...

    by Kelvington

    captain_kirk - I kinda thought this was a "special" DVD that he gave Rory with the outtake in it, like a variant of the Blink DVD's. That was sort of weak sauce when I watched it. Even then Hal Roach wouldn't allowed for those kind of shannangans. thomasflynn - The CAR was his TARDIS, I bet money on it. And because I said it last week I have to stick with it. LOL ginge_muppet - Are you seriously suggesting a woman being married has dead eyes towards their husbands? What a shock, I've never seen a married couple where one has dead eyes towards the other... except for EVERY married couple. It's probably the most accurate thing about them. silentrifleman - That's a good theory, I like that one more than the car one.... OK the TARDIS was underwater! hornorsilk - I have wondered that from the moment it happened. I assume he just got some debris in his mouth and spit it out, but that was an odd moment.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Not Spoiling, Not the End of the 11th Doctor

    by RogerOThornhill

    Christian, the news about Jenny coming back is from BBC cast announcements. Moffat is also spoiling this series a fair amount, which means of course that he's got several tricks up his sleeve. Ultimately, there's one reason why I don't think we saw the eventual end of the 11th Doctor: no regeneration. If that was not a clone or a doppelganger or an evil aspect (aka Valyard/Dream Lord), then they are going to have one hell of a time getting to the 12th Doctor. What I've heard about the end of tonight's ep may have something to do with all this--but then I'm not one to spoil ;)

  • April 30, 2011, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Yes hornosilk I am guessing that is the cliffhanger

    by RogerOThornhill

    Valeyard Valeyard Valeyard. And I bet that's who we saw shot.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:43 a.m. CST

    rogetrthornhill

    by shibleybc

    Teasing is as bad as spoilering LOL

  • April 30, 2011, 8:48 a.m. CST

    3hrs 13 mins.

    by Gabba-UK

    Because we're not pumped enough in this DocBack for my liking.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:53 a.m. CST

    Thornhill or Kaplan, or whatever you're damned name is

    by Seph_J

    FUCKING WHAT? Why do that? Why say that? *sigh*

  • April 30, 2011, 8:55 a.m. CST

    These odd people that claim to not like Who....

    by Gabba-UK

    What is it that they do on a Saturday for entertainment? Or is it too freaky to contemplate?

  • April 30, 2011, 8:57 a.m. CST

    the people who don't like who

    by Seph_J

    come on here and spout spoilers out of every hole - like thornhill. As anyone who had any respect for the show at all just wouln't say things about who is returning. If I wanted to read BBC cast announcements, I would. But I don't.

  • While I know "the raggedy Doctor" was not an exact image, remember, his encounter with young Amy would have happened in, what, 1995, one year before Paul McGann's first and only visual appearance as the Doctor. Or, am I wrong, time-wise?

  • 2 hours, 59 minutes to go in the UK, me, I may see it 1, or 2 hours later.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    thanks purple!

    by Rebel Scumb

  • April 30, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    My apologies

    by RogerOThornhill

    I had thought officially released information about the show didn't constitute spoilers. Now that I am clear on this I will not communicate anything like that on here again. If I understand the rules correctly, though, *guesses* (e.g., Valeyard, for which I have absolutely no concrete information whatsoever) are still fair game, because they are my own (probably wrong) conclusions from what I'm seeing. Pax.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:09 a.m. CST

    Ties, Regenerations and Theories

    by veteran_of_mu

    Well, for a start, I checked out the tie colours closely in TIA. The painted Dr wore a red tie. The L&H Dr's tie looks grey of course, but given that the red-tie Dr seems to be trying to get Dr 11's face to be well known, I'd guess it's red too. As expected the younger Dr's tie is blue. But the dead Dr's tie ... and suspenders ... appear as far as I can see to be burgundy. That's to say, half red, half blue. His car (cardis?) however is bright red. As for the Valeyard, what we're told is not that he appears between the 12th and 13th incarnation, but between the 12th and 13th regeneration. Dr 10 regenerated into himself in the episode "Journey's End". Which means Dr 11 is indeed the 12th regeneration, and therefore the Valeyard is indeed on the cards for Dr Red/Dreamlord. As for the death of Dr Red, I think it's plain the little girl is River, and that when River finds out that Dr Red isn't Dr Blue she jumps back into her old spacesuit and blows him away. After all we know it can't be Dr Blue in the spacesuit because Dr Blue can be relied on not to use guns. That only leaves the creation of the Valeyard. I expect something about time loops and clones. But it is also possible that everything we've seen since the end of Amy's Choice has been nothing but dreams ...

  • April 30, 2011, 9:10 a.m. CST

    A spoiler is something which will happen

    by Seph_J

    in subsequent episodes but which hasn't yet happened in an episode which has been broadcast.

  • his appearance is, remember, the general public wouldn't know about the TARDIS, regenerations, some may connect a blue police box with strange things happening, but, beyond that, nothing.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:13 a.m. CST

    axcel- the Doc still existed my friend...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ..the cybermen in London happened years before Amy was born. Just because the Doc had a different face does not mean that it didn't happen in time, was documented et.c No, I am betting that whatever is happening now is in an alternate universe somewhere through one of the cracks. Or possibly an alternate universe created by the Tardis in the Big Bang 2.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST

    As Donna Moss once eruditely put it...

    by Gabba-UK

    I'm pumped, I'm monumentally pumped. Actually now I think about Donna Moss as a who companion would be fucking hilarious!!! Sorkin needs to write an episode of Who.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST

    seph- which of his comments are you talking about??LOL!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST

    before we find out who amy is you guys mean?

    by alexander

    I at least expect some kind of connection to them or Amy in the big picture to be clarified tonight... or not, perhaps just River then. If River was Rani that would be so cool with m- arghhh sorry ill nip that one in the bud.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:16 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig o your response to axcel

    by alexander

    ... well Moffat has made it very clear, Dr Who IS a fairytale to him...

  • little things in general and Amys Choice suggested couldn't be the case... but you guys do make me wonder again... until now, I was fore fixated on the idea of the Dreamlord being The Valeyard so this construct emerging possibly being addressed at some point if not already in play, and who River and Amy are exactly and what they mean in all this

  • April 30, 2011, 9:20 a.m. CST

    interviewing? interweaving dammit!

    by alexander

  • April 30, 2011, 9:21 a.m. CST

    but now future Doctor has reappeared AGAIN so... yeeees....

    by alexander

  • April 30, 2011, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Sam Jackson

    by Seph_J

    I'm referring to the comment titled: Not Spoiling, Not the End of the 11th Doctor First line - the return of a character. I'd class that as a spoiler, wouldn't you?

  • April 30, 2011, 9:27 a.m. CST

    rogerothornhill

    by alexander

    then we both share a similar preoccupation with the idea of the Valeyard coming into play! I would be suprised though if they played that and the shot Doctor being him this early on though... can't help but feel this has soemthing to do with River, and perhaps subsequently just a little bit more info about Amy or at least what she knows

  • April 30, 2011, 9:28 a.m. CST

    just please God don't have it turn out River is The Doctors Mum

    by alexander

  • People in the world may know alien invasions have happened, just that they don't connect the Doctor with them, some may know, like the military, and others, but, the general public, I would think, no.

  • 2 1/2 hours to go, you lucky brits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Unlucky me.....................................................

  • April 30, 2011, 9:34 a.m. CST

    shibleybc

    by alexander

    either a coffee rush or to many e - numbers have made you forget lol!

  • April 30, 2011, 9:40 a.m. CST

    I spent the rpyal wedding in a cinema watching 'Yogi Bear'

    by JaNath

  • April 30, 2011, 9:40 a.m. CST

    Axcel

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    It'll be worth the wait. :) And I've just watched Karen's appearance on Craig Ferguson's show. My god, she's adorable.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:41 a.m. CST

    A message to all of our American and Foreign friends outside of the uk..

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....iN APPROXIMATELY 3 HOURS AND 30 MINUTES this DocBack will become laced with spoilers about the second episode. Some bits are fucking HUGE in the way of blowing your minds in this one folks, so PLEASE BEWARE when you are reading/posting later. For all of us watching when aired, PLEASE BE SENSITIVE of the others that have not seen this episode yet. Plenty of HUGE SPOILERS in the subject box, or christian_bale will no dout tear out your hearts...... ...you have been advised ;)

  • April 30, 2011, 9:42 a.m. CST

    Regeneration

    by TheFerretLives

    I thought it was weird how the Doctor was allowed to start his regeneration, with all the energy flowing out, before he was shot again. And where did that energy go? Visually it just suddenly wasn't there. So was this a way of sending the regeneration energy to the "astronaut"? If so then the question of who the astronaut was is even more relevant. However I don't think we've seen the end of the 11th Doctor and think the whole thing will be tied up by the end of the season. P.s. who the fuck is Jenny?

  • April 30, 2011, 9:42 a.m. CST

    I spent the royal wedding in a cinema watching 'Yogi Bear'

    by JaNath

    ...I just wanted people to know that, and that I am UK born and bred, a staunch republican and wouldn't bow to one of the in-bred, imported nazis if you paid me. Phew. That's better. In my defence, I was at the flicks with my 5 and 3 year old boys. Yogi not THAT bad! I steal picinic baskets now. Picinic baskets are cool. Roll on 6pm.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:45 a.m. CST

    axcel- yeah, but people do know he exists....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...take Ecclesons first Episode "Rose" with the fat conspiracy theorist in his shed. All of the photos and storys and what not on the net and in newspapers. Tennants tenure, when we believe the Doctor is killed in "Turn left" and all ofthe onlookers are witnessing the death of the Doctor after drowning. I jusrt can't shake the feeling that we are being played by the Moff and that the reality we are in at the moment with the Doc is not the one he left after his regeneration. Hope I am proved wrong because it all sounds pretty lame.

  • The girl whp played her is peter Davidsons daughter and now David Tennants fiancee expecting his child. Keep it in the Who-verse, eh???

  • April 30, 2011, 9:48 a.m. CST

    Ferretlives

    by Seph_J

    Generated (Jenny) Anomoly - the doctors daughter, from cloned DNA.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:57 a.m. CST

    Jenny

    by TheFerretLives

    Oh Doh me, I just knew her as the Doctor's daughter. That sounds interesting if indeed she will be coming back (although won't she be heavily pregnant, she's had the baby now hasn't she and it was a girl or did I dream that???), I'm sure I'm not alone in having the suspicion that she may turn out to be River but I think that thought was knocked on the head by my being reminded that River didn't recognise 10. Doesn't stop her being River's (or indeed Amy's) mom though. Or the little girl's mum in the astronaut suit, or the astronaut, oh god I need a lie down!

  • April 30, 2011, 9:58 a.m. CST

    Dicksholder -- come on, go to the right place

    by HornOrSilk

    http://sguforums.com/ Now you can enjoy yourself every minute of the day.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:58 a.m. CST

    It would be awesome if Jenny was the companion after Amy

    by Rebel Scumb

    Either that or a 20 something River Song. Both would make for unique companions

  • April 30, 2011, 9:59 a.m. CST

    As for this being an alternative universe

    by HornOrSilk

    Well, I think it is the same universe with time having been rewritten; in this way it is, in some ways, an alternative one, but in some ways not... Now who did the rewriting, how they did it, and why we will hopefully find out.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    Thanks Sam (AKA "The Wig")

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    It's a shame we have to constantly remind people about spoilers. You'd think everyone would realize that a spoiler is something that hasn't happened or been mentioned in the show yet. I can't believe that we have some people saying "Oh? What? You didn't read that on the BBC website / Doctor Who forum / Twitter?" I'd probably be angrier about this but I'm feeling a little tired at the moment and so I'm simply going to appreciate Sam acting as the gatekeeper against spoiler-assholes and then I'm going to have a power nap before the main event. Keep up the good work, Whobackers. This TB is always one of the most professional around (apart from the spoiler-assholes) and is constantly a delight to read. P.S Are robot hares the new toblerone now?

  • April 30, 2011, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Oh and also:

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    No, Sam, I couldn't believe that asshole in the other TB. Well done for exterminating that son of a bitch. He deserves to have his intestines ripped out through his throat and then strangled to death with them.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:06 a.m. CST

    ireland has been a republic

    by emeraldboy

    for nearly 100 years and like all republics the birth was messy. our original leaders had a vision, aspirational and all as that vision was they believed in a noble cause in common with other countries in the world war one period. We watch british shows on tv, like soap operas and yes dr who and other dramas. last week brendan o carroll became the first irish comedian to have show he created nominated for a bafta called mrs browns boys and despite all the critical disdain heaped upon his hideous creation, ratings have been huge and the beeb has already commissioned a second series. o carroll says his relationship with the media is hate hate. the irish support british football teams, and suprisingly cricket. we caused a huge shock in that sport twice. I think it is unfair that we should be excluded. we did very well at cheltenham this year. the vast majority of people in ireland will welcome queen with open arms. and we were all disgusted with the threats posed by dissidents. the irish and the brits have more in common then youd think. we know all to well what coalition govt is like. we had have had that since 1989.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:09 a.m. CST

    [dioxholster]

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    What's it like being a fan of a dead franchise, whose episodes can't get over a million viewers, doesn't qualify for a talkback on AICN (let alone one that appears at the very top of the talkbacks), has a dwindling fanbase, and features gates that dial each other like modems? Really! I want to know!

  • April 30, 2011, 10:12 a.m. CST

    Oh it;s that stupid fucker Dick-O-Meter....

    by sam jacksons wig

    wondering when the spamming fuck was going to pry his fat arse up off the bog and start to place fat cum stained fingers on 1986 IBM computer keyboard. Wanker.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Dicks-sucks-holster..don't sense much excitement in this Talkback?

    by sam jacksons wig

    At least we have a talk back you stupid son of a whore... ...where's your SGU one then? Oh I know! Written on the back of a fag packed stuck in your arse cleft. Just fuck off moron.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    christian_bale

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    No no, robot hares should not be compared to Toblerones. We like our Toblerones.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:22 a.m. CST

    Sam Jackson's wig

    by HornOrSilk

    The reason why Dicksholder doesn't sense excitement should be easy to see; no one gets excited with him... no one. Not even himself. All limp...

  • April 30, 2011, 10:25 a.m. CST

    robot hares are the new form of self-projectionist onanism

    by alexander

    toblerones have nothing to do with them

  • April 30, 2011, 10:25 a.m. CST

    toblerones are cool

    by Seph_J

  • April 30, 2011, 10:38 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk- oh yes! I salute you, sir!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 10:39 a.m. CST

    Toblerones are the new fez which is the new stetson...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ..and stetsons are cooooll. Toblerones stay. Fuck that mechanical hare-device!!

  • April 30, 2011, 10:43 a.m. CST

    1 hour and 15 minutes on what is now becoming a DocBack countdown tradition....

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Doctor Who proves itself number one

    by HornOrSilk

    And the episode has not even been shown!

  • April 30, 2011, 10:46 a.m. CST

    fuckin' a!

    by jon pertwee

    with all the pretty little changes made to the forums, you'd think they'd throw in a delete or edit button. its not that hard. anyhow, as for my post regarding the future dalek, i meant tardis, that pic of the dalek must have burned into my brain before i started typing. as for this season, i can't help but feel the season is being told in a non-linear way, with events in the season finale influencing what happened at the start of the impossible astronaut.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:53 a.m. CST

    How Things Will Play Out

    by Sci-FiJunky

    looking at what I find to be logically obvious, I agree with those who: Think the future Doctor's car was his TARDIS Think the little girl in the astronaut suit is River (from her comment "no, of course not," meaning she remembered the event happening from her childhood memories and could not be alive today if she shot herself." Also, upon the 10th Doctor's first meeting with River Song, he did not know who she was, wich implies River has never had adventures with any previous incarnations. Only the 10th & above - unless for some reason she chose to remain anonymous and didn't let on that she knew him in the future. But I am sure TPTB will have lots of twists and turns that make what appears obvious to be red herrings.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:53 a.m. CST

    jon pertwee - (mild spoilers inside for others)

    by sam jacksons wig

    This season is being told as it intertwines with last season in a back to the future 2 kind of way. Events that happen in season 6 will not have happened yet in season 5, for example, why there are no ducks in the duck pond. Expect that to be answered in this season along with other things.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:54 a.m. CST

    Conflicted about Rory

    by tomdolan04

    The character is good, and the actor playing him is doing a likeable job - more so than Karen 'pulling goggly eyes is not dramatic acting' Gillan in that respect. However there's just a feeling with me that 'Threes a crowd' dynamic wise and that when the writers don't know what to do with him they (last season at least) either killed him off, erased him from existence or wiped his memory for the amount of episodes required. <p> Undoubtedly when they require Amy/Doctor only ep's this season they'll come up with convoluted arguments between the couple (or delete him from existence again only to invoke 'timey wimey' logic to pop him back in for the rest). It's a shame the BBC wouldn't have had the balls to have a character like Rory as the sole companion - and before any remotely goes near the 'two men travelling together' angle, I see the character/actor of Rory as having a sense of wonder and naievity that works as a companion so well (in a way it did for the character of 'Rose' more so than the 'sassy' Martha and 'gobby' Donna). <p> It's projection. You can do fine as a show without it, but if you can create a character young children can see themselves in amongst these strange alien landscapes then ultimately it will be a lot better (for reference, see Red Letter Media's 'Episode 1' review where he asks people to compare the qualities of the Prequel Characters against the Originals).

  • April 30, 2011, 10:55 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk - we will blitz every talkback every week my friend!

    by sam jacksons wig

    Fuck the others and fuck Dicks-O-stargte.

  • April 30, 2011, 10:58 a.m. CST

    how to avoid your own death in the future without causing paradoxes.

    by notspock2

    Here's what you need. 1. a time machine. 2. the ability to edit memory. 3. maybe a clone of yourself.(optional) Here's what you do. 1. Get killed in 2011 ( you have to do this once. but don't worry- you have a plan) 2. before getting killed (so read the whole plan first, because if you're dead already it's more awkward) Invite your friends to go back to 1969 where you know they'll encounter a race that can edit memories/only trigger memories at certain times. 3. Also invite your younger self, with his earlier version of your time machine. 4. have your earlier self go back to 1969- stop some kind of secret invasion there, also stopping the person who would kill you in 1969 from being able to do it in 2011- 5. Steal the power of editing memory-- you need it- then go back in time to a point on your own timeline where you were completely alone. (say during/immediately after your last regeneration) - you are a timelord aren't you? 5a. landing a future version of the tardis inside itself in the middle of a regeneration, could cause the tardis to explode, cracking the universe, but, if you've already been thru fixing that, there's not so much to worry about. 6. Have your friends inform yourself of future events, and then hide them from yourself using the memory editing power so you don't violate your own timeline and personal history any further (this is to avoid paradoxes) 7. Before hiding the knowledge - Set up reminders of your upcoming death, and have a secret plan in place that you tell no one else about.- make sure the last reminder comes up in time for you to take action, and that you remember to invite everyone to witness about your death, so they can tell you about it. 8. ok, all the groundwork is in place. At the last moment possible replace yourself with said clone. (give him a hat so you can tell the difference) and let him get shot and burned to death in exactly the same way as you were told you did, - then have someone else lie about it being a clone- sending earlier versions of your friends back in time to save you.. 8 (alternative ) if you are a younger version of of yourself getting a message you are going to die- You could try this- Don't actually save yourself. Seriously. Just don't show up for your death, - there's already an alternative you in 2011 who dies sending people back in time- Create a paradox and act like the future you was just one option- Ok, so you lose 200 years of history with River song? but if you can't change your own destiny, what's the point of being a timelord?- Also, being called sweetie and having your hat shot off is really annoying after the first 100 years.

  • Take the hint, shove Stargate up your fat arse and climb in there with it before farting yourself to oblivia. Oh and the only question stargate ever answered is "What is the shittest most boring show on television that has fuck all viewers and had to be cancelle because it was a steaming pile of wank watched by some thicj cunt called Dioxholster who has no life and can only spam other TBs in the hope of having something vaguely resembling a life?" GET THE POINT? Fuck off......

  • April 30, 2011, 11 a.m. CST

    Start the one hour countdown

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

  • April 30, 2011, 11:03 a.m. CST

    57 minutes....... the air is charged......

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Only Positive Vibes, Mon

    by RogerOThornhill

    caractacus and ferret, you are both brilliant [end transmission]

  • April 30, 2011, 11:06 a.m. CST

    notspock- love it mate!!! christian_bale, DON'T read that post!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Here's another way to avoid death and paradoxes

    by tomdolan04

    1. Don't kill off your main character for dramatic purposes in episode one, as you have no choice as but to cheat in writing terms when you hit episode 12-13 (which they inevitably will wait for). <p> Thats it. I'm serious. I did enjoy S5 but (amongst others) the whole 'my future self helped me escape from the Pandorica so there' logic was lazy lazy lazy. 'OH BUT IT'S A SCI-FI FAMILY SHOW, IT'S ALLOWED GAPS OF LOGIC' defenders will say. Yes it definitely is allowed lots of mercy - but the gaps in those two episodes weren't just 'gaps', they were no better than waking up and 'it was all a dream'. <p> The Pandorica was hyped up all season. Then it was described as the 'ultimate prison'. Then...lo he was out in 2mins. Way to rape your payoff for a season of teasing guys. The explanations and theories all through S5 last year on these talkbacks were way better than what actually occurred.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:08 a.m. CST

    LOL

    by shibleybc

    and now i get the guilt trip from my other half about not asking for a lift to a party cause its too close to "settling down" time :(

  • April 30, 2011, 11:08 a.m. CST

    Good scheduling

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    It's good to have a 15 minute gap between the end of the episode and the start of Confidential. It allows us that brief window to come here and go "OMG!" Also I'm glad that "Don't Scare The Hare" is on before Who and not afterwards. Otherwise we might arrive at a dramatic end scene and have it ruined by a bloody cartoon robot hare bouncing across the bottom of the screen.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:09 a.m. CST

    and ALAN

    by shibleybc

    I was commenting on the ferocity and sudeness of the outburst not the content good sir!

  • April 30, 2011, 11:10 a.m. CST

    51 Mins...........

    by shibleybc

    All policemen close your eyes while i pop out and drop off the other half!

  • April 30, 2011, 11:18 a.m. CST

    40 minutes to go now. Dicks-O-cockhead, watch a REAL show you pudding!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 11:23 a.m. CST

    oops, missed a point. addendum to point 8. This is essential.

    by notspock2

    Addendum to point 8 (both versions) - Get someone else who is a complex space time event to kill you/your clone whilst wearing a space suit, in 2011 because your friends stopped the original in 1969. Or, if you are around, do it yourself.

  • I hear "Day Of The Moon" has a surprise twist ending, will anyone be able to not post it here?

  • April 30, 2011, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Dumber? Commoners? Thick-o's? I am going to enlighten you, Dicks-O-twat.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Listen up. You have no idea about the people you insult here. You have no idea of their backgrounds, where they are from or what it is that they do. Insulting a show is one thing, but to insult the great people that watch it each week is another. I will let you into a little secret, and I don't discuss this much at all for several reasons- it is not really important and I don 't want others to think of me in a negative light. So here it comes once and once only. For a living I am what is called a General Practitioner, and have been for 16 years. My wife is an Oncologist and heads up a department in our city hospital. Suffice to say she is one of the smartest people who walks the face of this earth and SAVES lives. I will refrain from giving you our combined yearly salaries becasue it is not professional to do so and unfair on others here. because I choose to swear like a navvy and act like a two year old child sometimes does not negate the fact that all types of people frequent these forums from all walks of life, and YOU just don't know who they are or what they do. Yes, we are both Doctor Who fans. So do yourself a favour, next time you feel like insulting someone here, DON'T. They are positively smarter than you will ever hope to be. Good luck with the rest of your futile existance.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:42 a.m. CST

    19 minutes until the main event. Time for beer and to strap in.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    Axcel

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I for one won't be saying what the ending is. But if you don't want to know it then I reckon you'd be best to avoid this docback until you've seen the ep. Oh, and 16 minutes to go!

  • April 30, 2011, 11:44 a.m. CST

    14 minutes gentlemen and ladies....

    by Seph_J

    ....isn't this great.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:49 a.m. CST

    Don't be too mean to Dixwanker

    by Kauzi Sezso

    He'll be re-watching his SGU dvds for the hundredth time while we're discussing new Who episodes for many years to come.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:51 a.m. CST

    9 minutes. Oh yeah! Time for a bumpy ride DocBackers!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • April 30, 2011, 11:51 a.m. CST

    The Hare

    by donkey_lasher

    Wtf is this?

  • April 30, 2011, 11:53 a.m. CST

    Ok, off to settle in front of the telly now

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Before I go can I give a big cheer to Merrick for giving us the docback early.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Stargate vs Doctor Who

    by donkey_lasher

    No contest. Apart from one film, the Stargate franchise is awful. I'd like a sequel to the original movie to be made, to erase the last 17 years. Looking forward to tonights episode.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Also

    by donkey_lasher

    I'm liking where Supernatural is headed this season. Sam and Dean have been duped!

  • April 30, 2011, 11:57 a.m. CST

    See you all on the other side...

    by V'Shael

    Minutes to go....

  • April 30, 2011, noon CST

    Ok Folks Shhhhhhhhhh..........

    by shibleybc

    Its Time, Likewise V'shael :)

  • April 30, 2011, 12:02 p.m. CST

    So right about intellect

    by HornOrSilk

    Doctor Who is famous for being a "geek show," because it, like an opera, has often been a show above and beyond the flashy expectations of the non-elite. The new series has added the flash so that people of all types but the real dumb asses can enjoy it. Oh and I'm a PhD Candidate in Systematic Theology, who has studied and works in languages such as Sanskrit (Greek, Latin, French, German). My field is inter-religious (comparative) theology, where I engage Vijnanavada with Christian thought. My dissertation is on the issue of eternal perdition in the thought of Hans Urs von Balthasar in comparison with the icchantika in the writings of Asanga. Yep, like so many other Doctor Who fans, I'm in the elite of society.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:06 p.m. CST

    I think we're alone now...

    by Perigee

    Rotten lucky British people...

  • April 30, 2011, 12:14 p.m. CST

    SG-W(aaaah)

    by Perigee

    Stargate Universe - No Movie Happening Posted by b3rt4 at Monday, April 18, 2011 Don’t expect to see Stargate Universe — or any other part of the franchise — come blazing back on television or DVD. At least not in the near future. Stargate writer, executive producer and mastermind Brad Wright took the stage earlier today at Creation Entertainment’s Official Stargate Convention in Vancouver, British Columbia and proceeded to update and clear the air on the fate of the latest series, Stargate Universe. “We just recently found out that the SGU movie is not going to happen,” Wright said during his stage panel today. “It took too long. We just couldn’t get it together in time, and the window has closed. It’s actually sad for me, because after 17 years, I’m cleaning out my desk tomorrow morning.” The capacity crowd at the Metrotown Hilton in Burnaby listened in silence, with some attendees visibly in tears, as Wright waxed reminiscently on the almost two decades worth of the franchise he’s had a hand in creating. Taken from: SpoilerTV http://www.spoilertv.com/2011/04/stargate-universe-no-movie-happening.html#ixzz1L1kohOl6 Waaaaaah. Hahahaha!!

  • April 30, 2011, 12:42 p.m. CST

    I like you, diox...

    by Perigee

    It kinda scares me that some folks here take you so seriously, but it's a hoot to watch you tweak people's noses with this act.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:42 p.m. CST

    Well colour me confused...

    by dj_bollocks

    I'm going to need to watch that again...

  • April 30, 2011, 12:45 p.m. CST

    At least you CAN, dj...

    by Perigee

    wah.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:47 p.m. CST

    Blimey

    by donkey_lasher

    Although the ending had been spoiled, that was quite an impressive episode.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:49 p.m. CST

    give it 20 minutes and I'm sure you'll be able to...

    by dj_bollocks

    of course you can download something like expat shield and watch it at your leisure !

  • April 30, 2011, 12:50 p.m. CST

    "Stargate Phoenix"

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    If Michael Ironside is in it I'm there ....

  • April 30, 2011, 12:50 p.m. CST

    I'm sorry, but that was dire...

    by BiggusDickus

    Moffat has gotten wa-a-y to clever for his own good and I suspect this will be where we see the viewing figures start to drop off. Nobody wants another 'Lost'. Stop trying to show how everyone how clever you are, Stevie-boy, before you piss all that post-'Blink' goodwill up the wall. And before you all start, yes, I 'got' it - it just wasn't very good.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:51 p.m. CST

    I'm working like a Demonoid, DJ

    by Perigee

    to just such an end...

  • April 30, 2011, 12:51 p.m. CST

    :)

    by shibleybc

    Second viewing time till you guys catch up:)

  • April 30, 2011, 12:52 p.m. CST

    it's a little dangerous i think...

    by dj_bollocks

    i could understand why people would find that episode complicated... and it certainly didn't really feel "for the kids"... I can imagine a few 8 year olds scratching their head right now... Be careful Moff that you don't alienate the kiddie cash cow !

  • April 30, 2011, 12:52 p.m. CST

    The Silence are quite possibly the dullest...

    by buggerbugger

    big-domed, small-mouthed, chinless things in suits since David Cameron slimed his way into public awareness for the first time. Nothing more than shit versions of the already-shit 'They Live' aliens with Force Lightning ejaculating from their dick-fingers.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:53 p.m. CST

    Dire?

    by donkey_lasher

    Did we just watch the same episode? A number of questions were answered tonight, which have been around for quite a while.

  • April 30, 2011, 12:56 p.m. CST

    And I wonder if the gay comment...

    by dj_bollocks

    ...was deliberately put in there... admit it Moff you read this forum.... I want a character named after me please for calling you on it !

  • April 30, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Top notch

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Wooo! That's going to have us guessing where this season is heading isn't it. And more than likely wrongly guessing. I liked the jokey line at the end about "just having some adventures". Meaning the next few episodes aren't going to be quite so season-arc-y. And I must add my appreciation for Rory. He was great last week but tonight he was wondrous. Both in the funny and dramatic stuff. He's way better than Amy now (though I doubt he'd make such a sexy looking pirate next week)

  • April 30, 2011, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Love the nods to future episodes...

    by s0l

    That they keep adding to this and the last series... Gives it an extra re-watch factor at the end of the season... ^_^

  • April 30, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Remember 'Girl in the Fireplace'?

    by BiggusDickus

    Tell me this two-parter belongs on the same DVD shelf and I'll call you a liar.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Secret Weapon discovered

    by MoffatBabies

    I will have this episode in 5 minutes.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Turns out it was 2 minutes

    by MoffatBabies

    Cant wait to watch. But remember, if you download it like I just did, ALSO watch live and DVR the thing on BBC America. Very important.

  • I'll be watching "Day Of The Moon" in about 10, 15 minutes, maybe sooner.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Valley of the Gods - Utah

    by MoffatBabies

    Don't fall off that cliff, Amy. Okay I'll stop now and just watch it.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Aww they

    by MoffatBabies

    killed her. Well I guess that's it for her.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Flip-flop...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...goes the plot line. It wasn't 'dire', but it wasn't 'Blink' either. I really enjoy the way Moffat writes for actors and the entire setup following on from "Impossible Astronaut" was good -but the internal dynamics between Amy, Doctor, Rory and River felt very forced. On the positive side, the children's home sequence was suitably creepy, even dipping into outright horror. The Apollo 11 set and launch pad looked great. The Tomb Raider references worked, as did River's plunge into the swimming pool. The pay off's are my problem. Especially Amy at the children's home: here was a big missed opportunity in my opinion: Amy should have been blast-o-matic. It would have made more sense (the sub-dermal recorder) and matched the eerie post-death communications in "Forest of the Dead". The emotional interplay between Amy and Rory is getting more threadbare all the time, and writing it as a tease "does she love Rory or the Doctor" is confusing issues for the sake of confusion. Taken together, I'd rate both episodes thusly: "Impossible Astronaut" 7 out of 10. "Day of the Moon" 5.5 out of 10. I'm looking forward to pirates and mermaids -talk about beating "Stranger Tides" to the punch! :) Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    Spoilers on above posts.

    by MoffatBabies

    Just so you know. Sorry for not saying so in subject. Genuinely.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Cracking Episode!

    by Warren Howarth

    Not wanting to gripe about what was most certainly a cracking episode, but it really would have benfitted from being shown back to back with episode onelast weekend. Some people with not-so-great attention spans might easily lose the plot. Despite that, solid performances from the main ensemble mixed with clever, snappy dialogue kept the story flowing nicely. And questions were answered but not without leaving us a few more to scratch our heads at. All in all it left me with a thirst for whats to come, so roll on next Saturday.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:22 p.m. CST

    I'm going to say something I would not normally say.

    by MoffatBabies

    Squeeeeee!!!

  • April 30, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    for people not currently watching it like me

    by alexander

    Ive watched Amys choice and there is no switching of the Doctors tie colours as mentioned by a talkbacker last week. His tie is blue in the 'dream' world, red in the real world. This does not change at any point.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Wowza!

    by Stale Elvis

    Great episode - I think. Created more questions and answered others. The end? Well I think it might be a bit obvious who that belongs to but Moffat has thrown many a spanner in the works. The way Doc 11 uses Apollo 11 to the end he does reminds me a bit of something that Tennant's Doc would have done.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    biggusdickus

    by Warren Howarth

    I appreciate what you're saying mate, but 'The Girl in the Fireplace' was a self contained 2 episode story whereas 'TIA and DOTM' are more a lead into the Season Arc. Its a bit difficult to compare the two, and in my opinion they both deserve a slot on the same shelf. But what do i know. I have 'Delta and the Bannermen' on the same shelf :)

  • April 30, 2011, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Girl in the Fireplace was only one episode

    by HornOrSilk

    So not even two episodes... and it was intended for something different...

  • April 30, 2011, 1:33 p.m. CST

    Rory...

    by Stale Elvis

    And Rory's scenes with the voice of Amy and the payoff was the stuff of greatness. Rory's the real hero in all of this. He's you, he's me, he's every man. Great writing for the character and brought to life fantastically by Arthur Darvill.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:35 p.m. CST

    [dioxholster]

    by alexander

    go away you fucking moron

  • April 30, 2011, 1:35 p.m. CST

    Stargate Phoenix...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...is a great name for a new show. Quick, go (tm) it before someone else does. Premise: Howard Carter pokes around in a pyramid. The curse strikes his team. He returns to London haunted with strange premonitions and half-remembered phantasms. He can't sleep, he can't write; he can barely keep a grip on reality. He is convinced that something momentous happened to him and his team at the pyramid at Giza. He has to return, despite the pleas of his family to uncover the truth. Except this time it isn't entombed under sand, but buried deep within the vaults of his subconscious. His lonely sojourn within brings Carter face-to-face with a Star Node: a nexus of absolute power in a hidden chamber below the Sphinx that allows for mastery of all of the portals across the universe. With the discovery comes revelation: he is at the end of his journey, bearing witness to a chain of events he had unwittingly unleashed -so terrible he blocked them from his consciousness. End of line. Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    The Doctor's Granddaughter

    by CharlesG

    Speaking of the Doctor's daughter Jenny, I wonder if she somehow is tied to the Doctor's granddaughter (and former companion) Susan?

  • April 30, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST

    "Is this the episode where Doctor finds a stargate?"

    by buggerbugger

    'Stargate'? Isn't that some barely-remembered TV series based on the cutting-edge premise that the Egyptian Gods were really aliens or something? Yeah, 'Doctor Who' did that for ninety minutes back in the mid-70s, whereas 'Stargate' did it for fucking ten mind-numbing seasons or more. With a Klingon with a mustard dollop on his fucking forehead.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Loved it - but I can see why it would disappoint some

    by V'Shael

    It's not a completion of a two part story. It's part 2 of a 13 part story. Cool things we've learned - The identity of the little girl. That Amy fears time in the Tardis might affect a foetus. The Doctor doesn't assuage that fear. Her pregnancy may be variable. Or she was with the Silents for longer than they thought, and she gave birth while with them. Was the ship a proto-Tardis? How he dealt with the Silents reminded me of how the Robomen were defeated, way back in the day. The Silents aren't extinct by 2011, but shouldn't they be? Wouldn't Amy have seen the footage of Neil Armstrong in her childhood and thus tried to kill it when she saw it? Or does that whole incident now occupy a redundant timeline? Totally should have been aired back to back with last weeks. I expect the percentage audience share to be about the same as last week, and the audience appreciation index to be above 85.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    I have watched both episodes from my hotel room

    by frozen01

    So suck it, my fellow Americans ;) Nah, just kidding, I love ya! Will be rewatching because I'd had about 20 minutes of sleep on the redeye coming out to Heathrow and don't remember much. But my god... the ending! O.O PS: Hope you all missed me ;)

  • April 30, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    shibleybc

    by alexander

    I apologise if it comes of as ferocious, those are just my honest thoughts put forward in as calm-formal a way as i possibly can on such a subject and my issues around it unfortunately. But its cool. No aggression, just passion my man... .... and a whole load of ice skating i guess, seeing as I have categorically stated before that I felt RTDs who has lent too much "Were Homosexuals/Bisexuals, were overly sexualised humanoid fuck-toys for man-gods, how fucking amazing and out there is that!?"

  • April 30, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    The Doctor finds a Stargate...

    by HornOrSilk

    DVD looks at it, tosses it in the trash. "What a load of rubbish. A Stargate? Really? Next they will have us believe that the Earth is flat and make a tv series based upon that premise."

  • April 30, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    has lent to much on...

    by alexander

    an edit button would be awesome if it didn't mean you cold fabricate your entire history...

  • April 30, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    voice in the Tardis

    by Seph_J

    answered in Confidential.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    SPOILERS FOR DAY OF THE MOON. Spec for season ARC

    by notspock2

    Hmm. This Amy's pregnant/no she's not thing. Is this the equivalent of the photo of the gravestone in back to the future 3? is Amy's choice this year- save the Dr in the future by telling him = lose baby vs. let him die- keep child? This implies Amy's Pregnancy is caused by something in the future affecting her past, something that could be changed... Obviously, the regenerating child looks most likely to turn out be River Song- she first appeared to us in a space suit...

  • April 30, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    devilgoblins

    by BiggusDickus

    You raise a very valid point. Perhaps it's the whole 'season-long story arc' thing that's what's alienating me. I guess I prefer the old one-and-two parters...

  • April 30, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Wasn't there a Next Generation episode...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...where Picard and crew found a "Stargate"; windows that allowed for travel between disparate places instantaneously? Oh, and aren't Transmats literal Stargates between two points? Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 1:49 p.m. CST

    Having just watched Confidential

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I now want there to be a show where Karen and Arthur travel around the world looking at things, and pretending to have seen them for the first time. :)

  • I second the comments for you here Diox, i hope you die in a choke-wank related accident, it would be poetic justice for it to literally happen given the only way your able to socialise and impress yourself and your relevance upon people who aren't fellow masochistic sycophant social blood sucking self-projecting troll wankers like you. Fuck off you acid casualty stalking fuck wit.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:54 p.m. CST

    The Silence - spoilers

    by donkey_lasher

    So they were messing about with time travel, which is how they managed to be around throughout history. Then we get the events of the previous two episodes and The Lodger reveals the aftermath. Very Very good Moff. I'm guessing that The Silence tried to kill the Doctor between Day Of The Moon, and The Lodger, which resulted in the Tardis exploding.... Phew

  • I guess that's possibly more fun that just ignoring him.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:56 p.m. CST

    River Song is not the child

    by donkey_lasher

    Or else she would have regenerated already.

  • April 30, 2011, 1:57 p.m. CST

    notspock2

    by HornOrSilk

    We all got to have fun with our pets from time to time...

  • April 30, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    donkey_lasher

    by HornOrSilk

    What do you mean, "or else she would have regenerated already?" How do you know that? Some things can stop it, you know.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    biggusdickus

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I think Moffat is trying to balance the two worlds. That of the intricate season-arc plot, and the standalone stories. I personally enjoy both types of them. Given the choice I'd prefer the plots to be spread out over more episodes (like in days of old), but I understand why standalone ones are used now. If that is the the kind you prefer then like I said earlier I think the next few eps are going to be more up your street. Based on the Doctor's line about "Shall we have some adventures".

  • April 30, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Plus about having fun with the troll

    by HornOrSilk

    It keeps Doctor Who fans together, unlike last year when there was a fight and people insulting each other. This year, we seem to all get along much, much better. The troll helps unite us... see he helps Doctor Who, even when he doesn't want to.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    OMFG

    by MoffatBabies

    There, another thing I do not often say. THAT was amazing and there's no way in hell I'm spoiling it.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:03 p.m. CST

    notspock2

    by alexander

    i take no fun or pleasure in it, i just have to get it off my chest

  • April 30, 2011, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Duck pond...

    by dj_bollocks

    After watching Confidential it's good that the Moff will go back and use these open ended comments and elaborate some more in them... I'm sure we've not finished with the duck Pond...

  • April 30, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    That ending was better than anything I expected.

    by MoffatBabies

    Next week looks like fun.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Good episode [Mild Spoilers]

    by cushing1967

    I'm not quite sure we do know the identity of the little girl, we know sort of what she is but a photo doesn't prove who she is - and there were a lot of other photos around that particular one - which I didn't really get a good look at but could these be other versions? Also, the alien was credited as the Silent - so, are they the same entity as The Silence? I did quite like how Mark Sheppard became uber camp for a brief moment when he responded to Nixon's comment about "I think the moon is far enough for now" Didn't Moffat particularly ask RTD not to kill Jenny way back in the Doctor's Daughter? Did he have plans for that character? It was a brave way to start a new season, different from the usual fluffy first episodes that they have been having since the relaunch.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    by axcel1

    So, that was the twist ending!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, I thought it was a great episode, too.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:13 p.m. CST

    purple

    by frozen01

    Yes. What the HELL is up with that Don't Scare the Hare show? Been trying to figure it out since last weekend... And I completely forgot about the Confidential. FAIL :(

  • April 30, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Rich

    by frozen01

    Hiya :) Glad you liked it. GREAT ending, wasn't it? :)

  • April 30, 2011, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Trolls...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...make fun little pets -or keyrings (when properly stuffed). Surely the "Church of Science-fiction-tology" has enough personality tests available to cater for all types of OCD withdrawal? It's great to have diversity in debate, and surely a talkback is about sharing ideas and voicing opinions? Look: he's worn the Millstone of Stargate around his neck, and the show is clearly sinking with him... so that's a strange and unusual punishment in itself! Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 2:23 p.m. CST

    Frozen

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    We're all trying to figure out the Hare show. I don't believe we'll ever discover the answer. Aside from that are you having a good time over here?

  • April 30, 2011, 2:24 p.m. CST

    No Spoliers... but WOW!!!

    by Kelvington

    I was very impressed. But I wished the ending would have gone on just about 1 minute longer to see how it all turned out. This year looks to be off to great start!

  • April 30, 2011, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Curse Of The Blck Spot prequel...

    by dj_bollocks

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gmybn But probably not for non Britishers...

  • April 30, 2011, 2:27 p.m. CST

    purple

    by frozen01

    Lovely! I never want to leave! That sound? Oh, never mind that. It's just the sound of my pocketbook screaming ;)

  • April 30, 2011, 2:28 p.m. CST

    Alright guys

    by frozen01

    Internet minutes are up. By this time tomorrow I'll be back home with unlimited Internet *hands shaking* See ya then! :)

  • ....and sooooo f*cking confusing if you're not heavily into DW lore under The Moff. Now I love all this, love that there's so much TB about it, but DW is meant to be a family show and my family consists of me, the missus and our two boys aged 5 and 3, massive DW fans, who got bored both last and this week. They have no idea what's going on, only that The Silence are cool and scary, and yet..... ....our eldest commented that the silence 'are just like the weeping angels and look like the ood'. Yes they do son. Complex, deep, thought provoking family entertainment can and has appealed to all the family. Look, they never got ants in their pants during their viewings of RTD era Tennant stuff. I know it had it's flaws, the somewhat cheeseiness etc..., but damn it was fun. I missed that last and this week. We all did here in this household. RTD over The Moff. Maybe. Pirates looks promising but I would like far more closure before the mid-season hiatus. I like RTD now. RTD was cool. ;-)

  • April 30, 2011, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Disappointed (Mild Spoilers Ahoy!)

    by Blackhand2010

    I said it last week, and I’ll say it this week: the story was too crammed into the constraints of two 45 min episodes. The Silence were instantly forgettable as villains (forgive the pun). All that build up across last series and we don’t even learn what motives they had. Unless I missed 15 minutes of plot expansion? Oh that’s right, there wasn't any. Where did they get the matter to build the prison? Why go to all that trouble if Canton is hoaxing the FBI, and he’s trusted by Nixon? Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the episodes as rollercoaster rides, however to begin to think about any of the plot, and it falls about like a house of cards. Look, it’s as much a kids a show as it is for geeks, I get that; but I think in these two opening episodes Moffat has to a degree alienated both of those audiences. I’m guessing kids who watched it were a bit confused/bored by all the angst in it , and for geeks there simply weren’t enough answers (well, for me anyway), or, indeed anyone asking the right questions. Moffat is a far better writer than RTD, and I still have faith, however the question is can he ensure it remains populist (which despite his flaws as a writer, RTD was a genius at) enough for a cash strapped BBC to keep laying down the big bucks to ensure it’s kept in production. And before anyone says “...yeah, but it’ll be explained later in the series...” I was told that about Lost too...

  • April 30, 2011, 2:37 p.m. CST

    The "End" Scene...

    by dj_bollocks

    Interestingly the ambiguous 6 Months Later might not be 1970... The game on the BBC website says that it is modern day America... for what it's worth...

  • April 30, 2011, 2:42 p.m. CST

    The Q and A

    by donkey_lasher

    On the BBC website has some interesting comments by the cast.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:46 p.m. CST

    Trolls ummphoo

    by alexander

    But you won't find me on SGU talkbacks wank-stalking people going "Oh this show is shit but its my methodone for BSG and that's the only reason I watch, why doesn't everyone watch BSG... why did more people not watch Caprica? Caprica Caprica Caprica Caprica Caprica BSG BSG BSG BSG SGU is shite SGU is shite SGU is shite SGU is shite I think im making my point rather well/cunningly I think im making my point rather well/cunningly I think im making my point rather well/cunningly I think im making my point rather well/cunningly I think im making my point rather well/cunningly I think im making my point rather well/cunningly nghha! nghha! nghha! nghha! nghha! nghha! nghha! nghha! BSG SGU sucks BSG SGU sucks BSG SGU sucksBSG SGU sucks BSG SGU sucks BSG SGU sucks its good to stalk for all these reasons ts good to stalk for all these reasons ts good to stalk for all these reasons ts good to stalk for all these reasons ts good to stalk for all these reasons ts good to stalk for all these reasons..." I find no humour, point, or relevance in it past the desire to be an antagonist and relish in it, even if he is a total fuck wit. Trolls and stalking fuckwits who have no business with shows they don't even like apparently should not be pets. They aren't worthy of the care or attention.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Scare the Hare

    by CptBlood

    What if scare the hare is like... some crazy meta game Mofat is playing with us... it's the sort of mad game a Dr who writer would come up with...

  • April 30, 2011, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Stargate/Doctor Who debate...

    by Sci-FiJunky

    ...or should I say bashing? I became a huge fan of Doctor Who the moment I saw Tom Baker battling the Cybermen with Sarah Jane and Harry on PBS back in 1982. I have been a fan of the Stargate franchise since it first started. I also love love love every incarnation of Star Trek (to differing degrees). And Star Wars? Awesome (until the prequels)! so why do you have to hate one because you love another? These are all well-made programs. If you are a true fan of sci-fi you will like them all because they all are a different reflection from the same prism.

  • April 30, 2011, 2:58 p.m. CST

    alan_grant_lives

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    You're just giving him what he wants ... The Stargate love is probably false, its just a mild wind-up ... Seen much worse on here.

  • April 30, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Interesting theory cptblood

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    You could be right, because every time I turned away from the screen I completely forgot why I was watching it.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Ey by gum...

    by Kelvington

    There will be MUCH kvetching about this episode, but I have to say I loved it. All the little small stuff, all the slaps at Americans and what not. But I agree these should have been shown in one night. I watched them back to back and they play much better without a week long intermission. So now we are going to have some fun for a few weeks before we really tear into the mid-series finale. I really don't think we've heard the end of the silence. I think they just were give one up the backside for a bit.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    purple prole

    by BiggusDickus

    Maybe you're right and we'll get the 'fun' back next week. Janath & Blackhand2010 put my thoughts more eloquently than I did - I just don't think I'm prepared to invest in another season of looking for clues and references just so Moffat can tick them off one by one in the inevitable Scooby Doo season finale... Been there, done that.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Day of the Moon Thoughts...Spoiler Warning

    by Blue Bow Tie

    Maybe it was just me: There were plenty of blue/red (bow tie) moments this episode. I've only seen it once so far but I remember: NASA men holding the Doctor(one red, one blue) Rory had red tie there Related, the pregnancy test at the end had a red/blue theme to it's positive and negative(where blue I believe was negative). The Doctor had a blue bow tie this episode. The Doctor in the "NEXT TIME" trailer has a red bow tie. This all may turn out to be Giles not touching anything, but I expect more red/blue things to come. I also went into the episode assuming the blue tie doctor was bad doctor, and it really seemed to fit the episode. Especially that scene with River in the fake tardis. And with the final scene with River, I get the vibe that her next adventure is the Silence in the Library(which part 1 also seems to indicate). And the kiss, we finally get some confirmation of a relationship of sorts. The Doctor's reaction also seemed a bit odd and seemed to fit the blue doctor. (River presumably matched diaries with the Doctor, so she would probably know if a kiss were appropriate or not)

  • April 30, 2011, 3:13 p.m. CST

    @kelvington

    by Monotonous_Black

    I agree that we haven't heard the end of the Silence. After all "Silence will fall" and its link to the exploding Tardis has yet to be tackled. Plus why did several other species in Series 5 mention them in relation to the cracks in time, etc? I have a suspicion they are a far bigger and more powerful foe than these initial episodes have let on. Unfortunately as pointed out by blackhand2010 above Lost has really made people suspicious about long-running and complex plot threads.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Oh... and LARGEST PRODUCTION ERROR EVER!!!

    by Kelvington

    Not to spoil this, so I will say it vaguely, but you will understand if you have seen the final shot. The LEGS! They should have been "lit" as well. Steven how the fuck did you miss that one? All exposed skin should have been the same. tsk...tsk...tsk.... Oh and if it is suppose to be 1969... and this is picking a nit here... the dumpster lids would have been metal and not plastic or poly. Just saying.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:15 p.m. CST

    The main reason I am looking forward to the Black Spot

    by RogerOThornhill

    Lily Cole and Karen Gillan in the same program! They should spin them off as a vigilante crime-fighting team with Christina Hendricks as their leader: RED HARVEST!!!

  • April 30, 2011, 3:21 p.m. CST

    ginge_muppet

    by alexander

    yes exactly its probably just an act and even if he does have real love for the show designated to wind people up and attempt to make some bs brain-lobotomised point that will only remain being made to himself... I just wanted to make sure everyone else was aware that's what he's pulling, seeing as alot focus on going after SGU and its ratings/cancellation as a result lol people, see you back and read your comments when I'm spoiler-proof for this week

  • April 30, 2011, 3:22 p.m. CST

    With all the focus on the young girl......

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Nobody is asking who was the woman with the eye-patch? I guess she'll turn up again sometime.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Dangerous Territory here

    by 2LeggedFreak

    As another Doc backer has said , if Moff loses the core audience for this show he is in trouble and I have to say that this was not family viewing. Can't think of many 8 year olds who'll stay interested in a Lost type story line. Even as a dedicated Who fan I had huge problems with this episode. For a start it felt manic and disjointed---there was no background to Canton hunting down the companions or imprisoning the Doctor. Yep I get that it was to con the Silence but for a casual viewer there is a huge leap between him being in the warehouse with the Doc and co and then suddenly turning into their hunter. The Silence were just that weren't they. I suppose they could be viewed as mysterious but the fact they all stand around like idiots when the Doctor was doing his triumphant talk at the end was just odd..nothing to say for themselves. The idea that Man was allowed to go to the moon to build space suit...didn't wash...for god's sake they use hypnotic suggestion, don't think it needed a whole space programme to develop the suit. Big deal made on the markings on the face and hands and not only does it feel slightly ridiculous in the final analysis but it was all just throwaway. Almost as if the idea was there just to generate scary trailer images. And once they had the Doctors hi tech solution why did they need this ? Does Amy really love Rory...do I care anymore? Moff appears to be concentraing on putting a clever little puzzle together here but the individual components of a jig-saw aren't that interesting. Unfortunately the same could be said for this episode. Yet another strange case of hyping around an episode which I think has been one of Moffatts most poorly executed and ill thought out episodes to date. Massively disappointed.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:32 p.m. CST

    Spoileriffic

    by donkey_lasher

    If Amy is pregnant, then she's three months into it, but claims that she isn't. If the kid at the end of tonights episode is her daughter, then we've got another paradox here, in which The Silence could have done something to Pond to ensure that The Doctors DNA was inserted into the foetus (remember what River said about his cells in The Impossible Astronaut) to create a Timelord, to maybe fly or complete their Time Ship? OR, the photo could be a red herring, and the baby is actually not Amys.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Purple Prole....

    by JaNath

    ..... your comment "Scooby Doo season finale" is perhaps the most eloquent description of all regarding what I fear this may be turning into. With The Moff having had way too many Scooby snacks. He's making DW into the Telegraph crossword for me: chuffed when I get several clues but ultimately frustrated at the complexity. AND MY KIDS DON'T HAVE THE FIRST CLUE WHAT'S GOING ON which is the main complaint. Still, good to be having gripes about a show one cares a lot about eh? Better than not giving a shit what you watch. Like LOST series 4 onwards... And Fringe all of series 3. BTW, anyone here remember Salvage One? LOVEd that show!

  • April 30, 2011, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Silents or Silence

    by cushing1967

    Perhaps the Silents (the name of the alien in the credits) are not the Silence, perhaps the Silence is not a character. Perhaps 'The Silence Will Fall' is actually 'The Silents Will Fall'. Perhaps the Silents Will Fall was a prophecy rather than a threat.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST

    2 pence

    by zer05um

    Technically (even if obsolete) the term is tuppenny 'orth.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    Janath

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    It was biggusdickus who wrote "Scooby Doo season finale". I'm hereby passing your credit on.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Prince william screwed Amy pond in another reality

    by Candy ass monkey suit

    Well one would assume the little time lord girl is the doctors and Rivers kid? It can't be amys as the doctor is pretty the gentleman isn't he It was more a less confirmed in this ep that the doctor and River were an item so it's either this or moffat has something ingenious up his sleeve!

  • April 30, 2011, 3:55 p.m. CST

    I'm not the core audience

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Some very valid points have been made here about why this two-parter was 'wrong'. I've said already why I myself enjoyed it, but I have to accept that Doctor Who shouldn't be made solely for my tastes. There are kids who watch this show. Lots of them. And it's becoming widely apparent they haven't liked these two parts. I hope that despite this they stick with it. The show needs to keep the family audience. If next weeks isn't more 'fun' then the Moff may have cocked up. But I have a good feeling it will be. Pirates and freaky mermaids. You can't go wrong with those, surely?

  • April 30, 2011, 3:56 p.m. CST

    2 legged freek

    by Candy ass monkey suit

    I think you make some good points, i too though that the episode was rushed, i still think 45 mins is too short for some who eps, sometimes they are given extra time ( the eleventh hour was 60 mins) and a few others breeched the 50+ min mark, this was definitely one of those that should have been given more time to breathe. The Silence were too close to aping the weeping angels for my liking, moffat seems desperate to come up with something as good as his brilliant creation, the whole "you forget them when you look away from them" is far too similar to the weeping angels and can't lookaway scenario. What made the weepin angels so good is that theyre inanimate objects which make them more scary, the silence are at the end of the day just another alien in a rubber mask, albeit a very good one. I would assume the timelord kid is either rivers and the doctors or amy's with some kind of genetic alteration given that it would be too soap opera-ish to have the doctor sleep with amy I don't know what moffat has up his sleeve but he does need to be careful not to fuck too much with the whoverse.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    Fuck Stargate

    by kwisatzhaderach

    It's horrendous shit.

  • April 30, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    HMMMMMM.................

    by SISKOKID

    ...I must say I'm really not feeling this eason so far. The Moff needs to reign it back a bit, I agree with Bigdickus that he risks the average viewshpi if he continues with over-elaborate, mult-arc storylines. I groaned at the female face at the door hatch-probably will not be explained until last episode of season 7. I reckon Mof fis having a great time writing these stories, but, come on, a decent story that stands up to scrutiny please (don't get me started on Rory the Centurion!!) To be honest, instead of being pulled in, I lost interest in tonights episode-a lot of what was going on seemed to a re-hash of the Silence in the Library and Weeping Angels storylines (Spacesuits? Recorded voices? etc) also future doc (as in The Pandorica Opens) helping out earlier Doc is getting old fast and seems to goes against the Who canon. Also we are back to 'Does Rory love Amy' AGAIN? My remedy is new companions, the arc pushed to the back and more self contained stories please.

  • April 30, 2011, 4 p.m. CST

    of course...

    by SISKOKID

    ..I meant 'Does Amy love Rory?' ps love that Dalek!!!

  • April 30, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST

    dioxholster

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    To have a discussion about a show you need to have more than one person watch it.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:04 p.m. CST

    Rory's memory (with spoilers from the episode)- rambling thoughts

    by HornOrSilk

    I am thinking that might become an important plot point. There is this thing with memory going on this season. People remember/don't remember various things: the Doctor/River remember things each other do not, people don't remember what is going on around the Silence, Rory sometimes remembers his existence as the centurion. I'm thinking it somehow connects with Amy being pregnant and not. How, I am not exactly sure. But I am beginning to think I am right with the "Time Lord" connection and Amy's child. However, there is more. Amy somehow made the Silence. How? In the creation of the universe. She didn't remember things right, allowing for holes and things from other realities to seep through. This means, of course, the Time Lords as well. I wonder if a part of the game changer is the restoration of the Time Lords, but in a way which makes them different from before. Moreover, how do the Silence connect to this? They seem to be able to make a TARDIS -- how? Will we find out?

  • April 30, 2011, 4:13 p.m. CST

    People Really Underestimate Kids Nowadays

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I've seen a few posts here and in other places about how kids will be confused, or bored by Moff's DOCTOR WHO. I used to love THE X-FILES when I was a lot younger and, even though the longer story eventually exploded in a convoluted mess, I was really gripped by it. I collected the magazines and the comics, and really got caught up in the entire story. Sure, an eight year old child wouldn't be able to understand everything that's currently being thrown at them but they'll like the monsters and the fast pace. My nephew was about ten years old when he watched THE PHANTOM MENACE and, though he didn't understand the political aspects of why things were taking place and why The Emperor was doing what he was doing, he loved the lightsabres and aliens. Personally, I'd rather my kids (if I had any) watched a more intelligently plotted show like DOCTOR WHO than some dumbed down Disney tv show about a princess living in a New York hotel, or some shit like that. If it makes them think, then that's a good thing. Moffat has children. He's know what he's doing.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:14 p.m. CST

    My theory on the little girl

    by Phil Lamarre

    I believe the girl is amy's daughter and she may be the one who kills the doctor, here are the reasons why: 1. The silence told her she had been on there ship for many days, and It has already been well over three months since she would have gotten pregnant. The many days I think were 4 or five months. So I think she had the baby when she was with them. B. They put the girl in the orphanage so she would be raised properly by humans. The room with the picture of Amy with a baby was the girls room. She happens to be the girl in the other pictures. III. Amy doesn't think she's pregnant because the Silence erased that from her memory. 4. I believe the TARDIS did have an effect on the unborn fetus and amy gave birth to a human/time lord hybrid or a straight up time lord. V. the silence knew this and in an effort to kill the doctor they implanted thoughts in the child during her early years. F. If this is the case the Doctor will have met the future incarnation of the girl and that's why he knew who it was when he was killed. I'm sure I'll be proven wrong with every bit of this but oh well. PS [dioxholster] can suck it

  • April 30, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    possible Spoilers above

    by Phil Lamarre

  • April 30, 2011, 4:16 p.m. CST

    "And it's becoming widely apparent they haven't liked these two parts."

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I'd like to see that survey of the UK's children that you've conducted, Purple Prole. Link please.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Good ideas poor execution

    by rosasaks

    Not sure it's a problem with the editing or just poorly written transitions between scenes. Tonally this shit is all over the place and the music continues to be utterly horrible. Nothing hangs together so it all feels wasted. I find myself bored by the echoes of past episodes instead of intrigued. Cleverness doesn't beat you over the head with how clever it's being. Stuff is either way too cryptic, or forced. It needs to be subtle and controlled. What we have here is a talented writer trying way too hard in too much of a hurry. Hopefully he turns the summer break to his advantage. This show has taken a dive in quality but remains promising. I expect the reveals will be satisfying and coherent in the end. At least these first episodes were fun.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Kelvington - production error, and more (SPOILERS)

    by Dimpy

    I've only just finished watching this on iplayer, but wasn't the little girl wearing leggings/stockings or something? That meant that there would be no bare skin down there to glow. The woman at the door was spooky - one silver eyepatch (like Odin lol) and a hi-tech vibe. And didn't she say "She appears to be dreaming". Are we supposed to believe that Canton and Amy tried EVERY orphanage in the area before stumbling onto the very place they needed to be? That would have taken months! So are we to infer that Nixon traveled in the Tardis? Once to Kennedy space center and once to the inside of the super-prison. As for the Silence being around in 2011, I guess that some of them would have survived the purge. After all, it was just like everyone could suddenly see the aliens in 'They Live' and shot the ones they saw. The survivors could still have hidden below the earth. Was that Amy's daughter at the end? Without her suit she would have died. What happened to the girl when they found the empty suit? Still too many questions for this viewer!

  • April 30, 2011, 4:28 p.m. CST

    janath ... Salvage One...

    by Kelvington

    Now that would have made for a cool episode of Doctor Who, using Andy Griffith to beat the Silence. Wow I'm old...

  • April 30, 2011, 4:29 p.m. CST

    christian_bale

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Ah, I may have jumped to a conclusion there. Between this docback and other Who forums I've so far seen 7 people say their kids didn't like it. Yes, that many. However I haven't seen a single one say their kids did like it. So percentage wise those 7 are 100%. Now see, this is why I'm not a scientist.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:34 p.m. CST

    @[dioxholster] Spoilers

    by Phil Lamarre

    I don't like you so.... Suck it

  • April 30, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST

    Well, ~I~ Liked it.

    by Perigee

    Although, as much as I hate to say it, The Doctor has been a kid's series for decades, and as much as I wish the had two - one for us, one for them - I think we have to leave the kids what we had. So, yeah... against my personal wishes, Moff should probably dial it back. I'm kinda feeling like we're co-opting the series from the poor critters. That being said, we're kind of setting a double standard; "You're doing it wrong: Too Deep For Kids, and What's With The Impossible Temporal Bowtie Paradox, Anyway?" Still.. very clever way to take out the Silents, even though I still don't get a huge threat from them - the Boba Fetts of DW. Still loving Rory, and not only did I feel crushed for him at the appropriate time, and thrilled for him at the appropriate time, he's really handling things beautifully. Our little boy is growing up. Count me as in the "Keeper" camp for this duo. And here we are, still unsure of the who did/why did of the first (literal) gut shot of the season. I guess we'll see the lake again around episode 11-ish or so. Now... time to have din, waste about a half hour, and watch them all over again. I can't wait until SG-U starts, so I don't have to keep watching the same DW eps over and over and over... ... (trollface.jpg)

  • April 30, 2011, 4:42 p.m. CST

    purple prole

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Rosasaks says "This show has taken a dive in quality" Siskokid says that he "lost interest in tonights episode" Blackhand2010 says that he felt the plot "falls about like a house of cards." I don't feel any of this is true and I certainly don't assume that general statements posted on the internet represent the majority. Sure, there ARE going to be parents out there whose kids didn't enjoy the episodes, in the same way that there are some people who didn't enjoy THE DARK KNIGHT. You can't please everybody all of the time. You may not have seen people posting "My Kids LOVED it!" but that doesn't mean those parents aren't out there. People are more likely to talk about things they aren't happy about; it's the nature of things. If I was a ten year old kid, I would have loved those two episodes.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:43 p.m. CST

    i got it!

    by suicideblondjay

    I think Amy has been rendered incapable of having children and that's what had the Tradis' scanner going all crazy , the little girl is River's and the Doctor's , they give the girl to Amy and Rory to raise, something goes wrong, the little girl ends up lost in time and space

  • April 30, 2011, 4:45 p.m. CST

    braindrain

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    A bit like SMALLVILLE, yes? How are those tweets to Tom Welling going, anyway? Has he replied yet? I bet you've been tweeting him like a madman today! "Yo Tom! You da man, dawg! It's me, Ryan. Please tweet back. I love you."

  • As it's been established River and The Doctor are going in different directions time wise. In the first episode this season River sees The Doctor die and she didn't know it was going to happen. The Mystery has not been solved on who kills him and it doesn't seem as though it's been stopped from happening. At the end of episode 2, The Doctor drops River off back at the Stormcage. So She cannot be involved in the death story arc for it's remainder because as established next time he sees her it will be her past. And if she is apart of this arc's solution then she would have known about it in episode 1 and thus would have reacted differently. I think the problem the River/Doctor story arc is I don't think SM is being as detailed about it as he has to be. But hey maybe he'll prove me wrong and it will all make sense

  • April 30, 2011, 4:45 p.m. CST

    The Master

    by TGirl Jerri

    In the guise of a little girl?

  • April 30, 2011, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Don't underestimate kids

    by HornOrSilk

    Some of the best kids shows are the ones they are treated with respect. They can follow quite a bit. Harry Potter was a success because JKR didn't treat kids as if they were unintelligent. Moreover, there is a Pertwee like vibe with this season... which is a good thing. We've been there before, and it works.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Definitely not a children's programme anymore...

    by wtriker1701

    Come on, guys! Basically now it's us 20 to 50+ year olds talking about storys arcs a la LOST. There's genuine effort by The Moff to keep the audience ( i.e. us) wondering and guessing about, wthat's really going on, while laughing his ass off by being two steps ahead. But either I feel too old or I'm not faithful enough to trust children to understand those 45 minutes just passing by. The creepy horror is present, the wild ("Where does this lead to?") goose chasing is pretty much on... but the sheer mixture of drama and comedy that pleased the whole family seems to be missing... Well, I was surely on the LOST boat before-inmidst-after-the-storm, but that was an entirely different beast. I'm still scratching my 45-year-old-Picard-Style head and HAVE to rewatch those two episodes on par with S5 episodes to try to get behind The Moff's frontal lobe... guessing I'll always be 2k steps behind. I sincerely hope, he doesn't LOST us. That's where I got angry with those producers. But, for the children among the audience, I hope, they pull out some softer "adventures"! Since then I hope I even survive 2011 - because nothing gets you more pissed off than letting go, while having some major unfinished business left. No, I'm fine - but who knows what kind of bloody, unnecessary accident finishes you off early - and there's no telly down at the gates (or above...). Until there's no LOST ending: I LOVED those 2 episodes - and now fully embraced Matt Smith as The 11th Doctor!

  • April 30, 2011, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Fair points christian_bale

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    That is true. More people go on the internet to say they don't like things than those who do. Ok right, I'm going to take back the earlier comment that started this. Not just because of any wrong conclusion it may have gotten me, but because it sides me with the people who didn't like this two-parter. Remember, I liked it. :)

  • April 30, 2011, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Go to youtube

    by HornOrSilk

    The kids review, the kids love Doctor Who. Not American kids, of course. British ones. Says something about the US.

  • April 30, 2011, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Howling Mad River Song

    by BiggusDickus

    BTW, I really hope this isn't going to be the recurring motif of Moffat's tenure - River busting/busted out of prison tick another diary date with the Doctor. Let's have the whole River Song thing done with this year, eh? Have to say though - this is a remarkably civilised TB considering the differences of opinion over this evening's episode. Well done one and all!

  • April 30, 2011, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Quotes from the "What Did The Kids Think?" thread for the episode on GB

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    "As Amy walked round the orphanage my 8yr old daughter hid in her jumper, then moved behind my back jumping with each new sound." "Quote from my 12 year old son, unprompted ;Best Doctor Who episode EVER'" "Split decision here. Rosie (7) was on the edge of her seat, says it was all good, no bad, and the ending was amazing (she leapt up and shouted "No!" when it ended), but 4 yr old Billy started wandering around and mucking about, and said it was all boring except the little girl at the end - although he did squeal a couple of times when a Silent jumped out!" "I asked 15 year old son and 12 year old daughter what they thought and they both agreed how much they had enjoyed it and how the two- parter had whetted their appetite. 5 year old son had to sit next to me having a hug and looked away saying 'I'm frightened' during the scary bits." "An inverse reaction in age from my family: the youngest loved it, and as people got older they liked it less, until we get to my mother-in-law who doesn't like the new Doctor who isn't a patch on that nice man in the suit. " "The kids here loved it!!"

  • April 30, 2011, 5:02 p.m. CST

    River Songs timeline

    by donkey_lasher

    Isn't exactly straightforward. In a future episode, we will see a later River appear.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Braindrain

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Don't get your Superman cape in a twist, Ryan! Enjoy your tweets tonight to Tom Welling and that guy who plays Green Arrow. I'm sure they both love getting obsessive tweets from forty year olds with beards.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:07 p.m. CST

    the kids that RTD grabbed with plastic belching

    by Seph_J

    wheelie bins, farting slitheen, and cat people have grown up with the show and are ready for Moffat - something more grown-up... scarier monsters and more timey-wimey plots. Once a Who fan as a kid, always a Who fan.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:08 p.m. CST

    @ hornersilk

    by Perigee

    Kids love swimming pools, too... but there's a reason the put that line with floats on it to demark the deep end. If we're in here banging our heads trying to map the storyline, all those little nippers I see in the audience at the proms must be blinking like moles in sunlight. (....heh... The Silents in the Proms this year. Cool.) There's plenty of action and spooks for 'em, but taken all-in-all, their appreciation for the growing amount of timey-wimey complexity has to be leaving them even more slack-jawed than us graybeards.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:08 p.m. CST

    I wish you were a jumper, Braindrain

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Are there any bridges close to where you live?

  • April 30, 2011, 5:10 p.m. CST

    Look at you, you're so young...

    by The Reef

    Rivers comment to the Doctor in the library. All fits in with my theory that Timelords age backwards - or at least get appear younger as they get older - the last incarnation of the Doctor should be played by a 16 year old (and to be fair there are enough kids in the UK theatre system to pull it off). I just wonder if River met Hartnell (no. 1) and there is some connection to his Granddaughter from the first ever outings... Or even if there is a connection to the Doctor's Daughter (who will undoubtedly die to give the Doc his new regenerations). I wait in hope for answers.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Yes biggusdickus

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    That's what makes these Docbacks so cool. There can be vast differences of opinion, yet everyone here respects each others views. Unless they're about Stargate obviously.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:15 p.m. CST

    or unless they haemorrhage spoilers

    by Seph_J

    ...then we aint so nice.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    "Look at you, you're so young..."

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I've never believed that River was talking about his physical age. As she has a book showing all of the incarnations of The Doctor, I've always believed that she knew that she was looking at him before he regenerated into Eleven.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Ah yeah

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    There are those seph_j Even so, compared to any other AICN talkback this place is like Woodstock.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:22 p.m. CST

    "Even so, compared to any other AICN talkback this place is like Woodstock."

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    That made me chuckle :)

  • April 30, 2011, 5:22 p.m. CST

    I think thats probably

    by Seph_J

    because the only people who come here (apart from Dickholder) actually like the show, or at least have constructive comments on it. Unlike other TBs where people usually only post to say how crap something looks, or how shit remakes are, or how much of a twat Shia LeBeouf is... etc.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Star Trek voyager had aliens that you forgot

    by series six

    I loved Who tonight. But there was an episode of star Trek Voyager where you couldn't remember a race after you met them. Who in God's name is the person at the end?

  • April 30, 2011, 5:25 p.m. CST

    ... But, honestly, Shia LeBoeuf IS a twat.

    by Perigee

    Just so we're all on the same page.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:27 p.m. CST

    SPOILER <= there it is, nice and clear :)

    by Seph_J

    So... the "Silence Will Fall" voice in the TARDIS from The Pandorica Opens was a Silent. Seems a little... off to me. They sound completely different. Unless it was a particular Silent (lead parasite? head of the swarm?) with a more human voice? Any ideas?

  • April 30, 2011, 5:35 p.m. CST

    So.... Anyone got any thoughts on ("DAY OF THE MOON" SPOILER!!!)...

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    ..the woman with the Saul Tigh eyepatch who appeared at the window (which then didn't exist) and said "She must be dreaming"... Very odd.

  • And, I hope Canton returns, I liked his solution to not forgetting the Silence, shoot one. Oh, and, the Doctor's to stop them.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:43 p.m. CST

    On RTD...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...did I really read some posts missing RTD? Now Moffat may be guilty of onanism and rushing his beats, but he's still the 'thinking man' of Who writers. RTD brought the lightning and the machinery of Who back to audiences and did a great job, with very good casting throughout his tenure. His stories were as cloying and sentimental at times, camp and silly hidden just below the veneer of sci-fi, but they were rollicking rides with nothing much hidden or subtle. What we see is what we get. Moffat is the string puller behind the scenes; the phantom of the BBC; the Wizard of Oodz. He's created a cipher in Matt Smith for the 'dream within a dream'; not quite Faustian, but not far off if I'm reading the portents. If season five were the dream of Amy, then season six is her nightmare. I can pick and pull and prod and pry and prick at this weeks episode in terms of what would have worked, what didn't, what may work down the line, what isn't intended to work ever -it would end up like "LOST" talkbacks -goodwill and hope over substance. It is great British BBC drama and that's more than we could have ever hoped for pre-2005. Enjoy it. Revel in it. Cherish it. Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Christian Bale

    by HornOrSilk

    A Time Lord

  • April 30, 2011, 5:50 p.m. CST

    Geeky sci-fi eyepatch references

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    The woman with the eyepatch was the oddest thing in the episode. She came and went without anything being said about her. If we're doing geeky sci-fi eyepatch references then I'd say it was more like General Changs.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:52 p.m. CST

    "So.... Anyone got any thoughts on"

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    Not sure ... but its a safe bet that she is not in anyway as exciting as people will dream she is for the next few months ....

  • April 30, 2011, 5:57 p.m. CST

    @donkey_lasher

    by Phil Lamarre

    Where do you see any proof of that. There's only one instance that's been discussed about The Doctor not going backward in timeline with River and that's when she tells the story of when he gave her his sonic screwdriver. every other time they've established they are going in opposite directions

  • April 30, 2011, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Re : [dioxholster]

    by Real Deal

    Look. I agree that SGU has become a really good show. It's too bad it did this too late in the game and it's now canceled. If it ever has a chance to come back and finish the storyline in some way people have to like it. Spaming and trolling in other talkbacks here isn't going to make people like it. It will turn them off. So unless you're a troll I suggest you stop ( and even if you are ). It's not cute or funny and this is a Doctor Who talkback ( another show I like ). So stop.

  • April 30, 2011, 5:59 p.m. CST

    @the reef

    by Phil Lamarre

    The youngest version of The Doctor that River has seen is the 10th. if she had spent any time with any version 1-9 He would know who she is.

  • April 30, 2011, 6 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk / purple prole

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    hornorsilk - Really? I'd love to hear why you think that. purple prole - Possibly having a dumb moment but I don't get your reference. Who is General Changs?

  • April 30, 2011, 6:01 p.m. CST

    evilred

    by Seph_J

    unless she regenerates.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Spoilulations...

    by Rob Sloane

    ...not exactly "spoilers" but not precisely "speculations". Just my gatherings and rantings. Woman with eyepatch = Shadow Proclamation peeps trying to sort out the mess in Amy's dream-reality-whoniverse. Little girl: Amy's child infused with power from the exploding TARDIS -the spacesuit and newly built TARDIS are literal manifestations of her power. Silents: Seeped through the cracks in the whoniverse during season five taking over entire worlds. Shadow Proclamation: Trying to put the Genie back in the bottle. Future Doctor: Temporal / subconscious construct of Amy's dreaming / nightmare which needs to 'die' for her to come full circle. Past Doctor: Only exists because of Amy's dreaming / nightmare. Silents: Exploiting Amy and her Daughter to exert control over their existence in Amy's nightmare. Finally, I hope I'm wrong as I really dislike the "Sucker Punch" nature of this scenario -it's one thing to have a series 'like a faery tale dream', but quite another to use suspension of disbelief as the actual reason d'etre! Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Christian Bale

    by HornOrSilk

    She reminded me a lot of what we saw in "The End of Time" with Wilfred. I could be wrong, but it just seemed similar and so made me think it is more Time Lord influence. Especially if my opinion that the whole Time Lords (and not just a lone one) turn out to be back (which is something I think might happen).

  • April 30, 2011, 6:11 p.m. CST

    General Chang

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    He was the Klingon who Christopher Plummer played in 'Star Trek 6'. He had an eyepatch that was fastened to his face, with no strap holding it up. The woman in the Who episode tonight wore her eyepatch with no strap too (if I saw it rightly).

  • April 30, 2011, 6:11 p.m. CST

    @Braindrain

    by Rob Sloane

    ...you mean the estimated two billion audience for the Royal Wedding? I had no idea Doctor Who was so popular! Keep cool, Ummphoo

  • April 30, 2011, 6:15 p.m. CST

    purple prole

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Ah yes! I remember him. Thanks.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:17 p.m. CST

    "those who watched the royal wedding

    by Seph_J

    watched Doctor Who?" Because both are British? What a retarded thing to say. Its like saying those who watch Lost watch the superbowl, because both are American. I watch Who. I live for it. I did not watch the royal wedding, because i'm not particularly interested the marriage of two people I don't know and will never even meet.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:21 p.m. CST

    Solved!

    by CptBlood

    Ok, check this. Tardis explodes killing everyone inside but tardis has enough time to transport its essence into Amys child. Using a self preservation proticol it then hastely constructs a space suit for the child and sends it back in time to prevent its own destruction. For some reason the Dr knows this which means there's now another him running around who shouldn't exist or something so has to arrange for the death of his doppleganger as witnessed episode 1. Dr Dies but doesn't really, tardis reconstructs itself and absorbs Amys child into its matrix ostensibly becoming her metaphysical child , end of season. There you go. That's how it all pans out.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Hmmm

    by clupula

    I'm starting to think that this season might be better to watch after it's over, so I can watch it as one big episode. I am really curious as to where this is going, and I loved the ending of the episode, but I must admit to being really confused a couple times during the episode. Especially, the first 10 minutes, where I kept wondering if I missed something. Then, once they were in the cell, it made sense, but still... Anyway, I'm starting to get the feeling that watching the season as a whole will be better than watching the individual episodes week by week. Will still be there each week, don't get me wrong. But I came out of this episode with more questions than anything.

  • April 30, 2011, 6:24 p.m. CST

    The Doctor was at the royal wedding

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Didn't you see him? http://tinyurl.com/6zgxgyy

  • April 30, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Dickholder

    by Seph_J

    makes me laugh. I'm so glad I have better things to do than write whole essays about how much I *dont* like something just for the benefit of myself. Very funny, in a pathetic kind of way. Aww. Poor dickholder.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Sorry Evilred

    by donkey_lasher

    We do see an older River but she doesn't necessarily meet up with the Doctor.

  • April 30, 2011, 7:17 p.m. CST

    donkey_lasher

    by Seph_J

    is that a spoiler by any chance?

  • April 30, 2011, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Why do you think..

    by s0l

    ...That the Spacesuit is a Time Machine? Did i miss something in the episode? It IS a life support unit, Well more like an extreme survival suit. It's keeping the occupant alive, and even possibly moving by itself to get the injured party to some help. It *may* have been created by the Doctor at some point in the future to save the kid and it looks like it's stuck in the late 60's Can't wait to see what comes of it...

  • April 30, 2011, 8:23 p.m. CST

    baby spoilers

    by carlitosantiagodoe

    The child/timelord is either the product of one of two causes: 1) amy's baby affected by the tardis's core 2) river/doctor's baby resulting from some sweet timelord lovin' occurring prior to impossible astronaut. I'm voting for the latter. The picture of amy with the baby is a red herring. The child is so pissed-off that she never had the love of her father that she created some playmates.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:33 p.m. CST

    Is that even the original dioxholster?

    by FrodoFraggins

    I don't remember the brackets in his name. I always get the feeling this is just a troll account, well even more of a troll than the original.

  • April 30, 2011, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Purple Prole

    by MoffatBabies

    That image was brilliant.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:06 p.m. CST

    The girl's legs were bare...

    by Kelvington

    You can clearly see in the long and medium shot her legs were bare. Huge production mistake.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:07 p.m. CST

    So many plot holes.

    by Smashing

    If you know who had written this episode the pool dive would be the new fridge nuking. How could you write number tallys on your face in a neat order in a dark room without a mirror? Why did the chip that was implanted in the hand continue to work when on the floor? why put it in the hand if it does so? How can River shoot a silence behind her if you forget they exist when not looking at them? It's been an exciting 2 parter but it's overall re-watch stand alone value is low. Looked beautiful, was very funny, far too fast paced for it's own good, and seemed incomplete. We didn't even see them discover The Silence. I think Amy did have her baby, the time shifted forward a few months and when Rory is listening to her on the chip it sounds like she may be talking to not him or the Doc but a baby? Amy was with The Silence at least 5 days so maybe they've done something to her? I loved the resolution, very clever. Nixon was a delight, you don't read that often. I'm still a little whelmed but after watching the DOTM 3 times I don't feel amazeballsed in the way I expected.

  • April 30, 2011, 9:55 p.m. CST

    smashing

    by MoffatBabies

    I think most of what you say there is accurate, but.. "If you know who had written this episode the pool dive would be the new fridge nuking." I thought that was actually pretty funny. Unlike the fridge. "How could you write number tallys on your face in a neat order in a dark room without a mirror?" I noticed that as well. Kinda bugged me as well. "Why did the chip that was implanted in the hand continue to work when on the floor? why put it in the hand if it does so?" Implanting a device that tiny was "handy" if you'll pardon the pun. It's utility was not just it's function but it's ease of use. We look at our hands a lot in a day's activity. It continued to work because it was "tied n" to her physiology somehow (wibbly wobbly). "How can River shoot a silence behind her if you forget they exist when not looking at them?" She didn't always seem to me "aiming" to me.

  • April 30, 2011, 11:15 p.m. CST

    That lady with the eyepatch creeped me out man.

    by Cap'n Jack

    And she said, "No...she appears to be dreaming." as if to someone else that we couldn't see. When she opened that hatch and looked in, I suspect she was really looking into a room of some kind, not out of one.

  • I don't think Moff consciously ripped off Wheadon but the similarities are there.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:03 a.m. CST

    HOLY SHNIKES

    by captain_kirk

    that was awesome.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Amy was not with the silence for very long

    by History101

    TV footage and launch countdown. maybe a day or two.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Maybe River Song is a Time Lady

    by captain_kirk

    ...and she's the kid. It would explain why Amy was holding her.

  • I don't even know where to begin. First of all, I hope they make every episode a two parter and essentially bring back the "cliffhanger at the end of every episode" from the original series. Second, leaving us on the cliffhanger of The Doctor's death for the rest of the season? Fucking brilliant. 3rd, who's the little girl? Who's River Song? I'm 100% sure every theory I have in my head isn't what Moff has in mind. Maybe the little girl is River but I seriously hope not. It doesn't make sense because River isn't a Time Lord. The girl isn't Jenny either because Jenny can regenerate without changing her appearance like she did at the end of her episode. I don't think Amy Pond simply hanging out in the Tardis would make her offspring into a Time Lord. Doctor Donna merely had all of his knowledge so it's not her either. The return of mystery and the "horror" element of the classic series that we've barely seen is back in full force. Brilliant. As a Whovian that's been devoted to this show for over 20 years I gotta say this is some of the best storytelling in it's history. Well done.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Shooting the Silent behind her

    by History101

    She saw Rory's reaction, which we did not.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:26 a.m. CST

    Best Who Episode Ever! (SPOILERS)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Lots of genuine LOLs especially with Eleven telling Nixon to tape everything. Except of course the 18 minutes of Silence ... River's nature is finally clear. "What kind of Doctor are you?" And ... yes, I'm with evilred's first post - Amy's daughter belted by timey-wim

  • May 1, 2011, 12:30 a.m. CST

    Best Who Episode Ever! (SPOILERS)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Weird - silents got to my last post. Anyway as I was saying, lots of genuine LOLs especially with Eleven telling Nixon to tape everything. Except of course the 18 minutes of Silence ... River's nature is finally clear. "What kind of Doctor are you?" And ... yes, I'm with evilred's first post - Amy's daughter belted by timey-wimey rays turns into River Song, ain't she unglamorous? Er, sorry, mispent youth ... Also lots of really Lovecraftian paranoid scarey shit. The bit where Amy was pleading to be found while Eleven was springing the trap on the moon was particularly disturbing. So was Renfrew. Chang's wife should have had more to do. Finally ... I do really wish the end hadn't been spoiled for me but damn it sent chills anyway. My child hasn't seen this yet - I will have explain who Nixon was and what racism/sexual-preferencism means before letting 'em watch. I am so looking forward to seeing this through 'eir eyes ... Docbackers who don't like this show are just a bit slow of mind. Give 'em a few months to actually figure out what's going on and they'll stop making all the idiot references to lost and sg. We can forgive 'em - their only real shortcoming is they haven't watched DW for enough decades ...

  • May 1, 2011, 12:41 a.m. CST

    Just a few little hooks?

    by Dreamfasting

    I believe I have just seen what a Gordian Knot of plot hooks looks like. It feels like the season started with the finale episode and is going to work backwards to explain what we just saw :)

  • (Mentioned only twice before in Who history, I believe?)

  • May 1, 2011, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Thanks purple prole

    by funkylovemonkey

    that made me laugh

  • May 1, 2011, 1:36 a.m. CST

    thethedew

    by MoffatBabies

    easy.. dwarf star asteroids (well, meteorites)

  • May 1, 2011, 1:42 a.m. CST

    WTF. Nixon got to ride in the TARDIS?

    by Rhuragh

    Yet another reason to hate that motherfucker.

  • May 1, 2011, 2:29 a.m. CST

    Guys, I am sure it's there... (spoilers)

    by sam jacksons wig

    About 20 minutes in, Amy is confronted by the astronaut in the room with her photo. It is thundering and lightning. As the kid is pleading with her for help andthe lightning hits her face for the SECOND time, the face changes only for an instant. I have rewound and rewatched. Iam sure it's there.

  • May 1, 2011, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Can't see the forest for the trees

    by AstroNerdBoy

    I don't know why but I am always amazed at people who don't see the bigger picture. What was clear to me at the end of this episode was that this wasn't simply a 2-part series starter, but the two parts of a much larger story that started last series and continues on until the end of this series (at the very least). The River Song aspect of this goes back even further and she's a character who's become one of the more interesting supporting characters to ever appear with the Doctor. I felt episode two did The Silence (or whatever they are called) better by not showing them at times but leaving indications that in fact encounters had been made. That allowed the viewing audience to experience things as the characters did and thus makes it a scarier thing. Anyway, I won't spoil but I'd just like to say that I found this episode to be filled with fun so I don't understand the talking points saying that there should be a return to the "fun" because to me, that sounds like, "I'm not smart enough to use my brain and so I need things dumbed down for me." Personally, I found a lot of fun in the first two episodes, though maybe not over the top as has been in other episodes. The talk of how SM is simply recycling other monster creations of his is something I guess I can understand but I don't agree with it. I love the idea of dust in the light being a monster. I love the idea of ordinary statues being alive. At the same time, I love the notion of an alien race that you never remember encountering. I'm looking forward to the rest of this series and finally learning who River Song is to the Doctor. I've no doubt I'll be preordering this series on Blu-ray as soon as it is available to do so.

  • ...and dinner was lovely. Amongst other more mundane topics of conversation was said Who episode (there were more than just my wife and I present so it made for an interesting debate, especially from the non-Who fans) 1) Moff HAS pushed the boundaries as far as he can for a show that airs at 6pm prime time on a Saturday evening. The correct blend of chills and humour made up the show, with some genuinely creepy moments (Amy in the orphanage with the silents hanging above her head for one.) and some laugh out loud funnies (Well, there's always a bit left over, isn't there? You have to tape every word, say Hi to David Frost for me....class) 2) This episode dealt with some pretty heavy topics; insanity (years of being abused by the Silents causing Renfrew to become as nutty as a box of frogs), torture (Amy kidnapped and her disembodied voice pleading for help, not only torturing her but her impotent companions...), child death (it's there and it is a rather difficult watch), racism and homosexuality (just touched upon and fortunately NOT rammed preachingly down our throats- nice touch for others sensibilities and very well handled; also adding a nice touch to the character of Canton who I DESPERATELY HOPE we will see again. Pure excellence.) 3) Then, oh dear..... things weren't given enough time to breathe. The conclusion felt too rushed for my palate, with a few inconsistencies. For example, after years ina bio-metric suit being fed by slimy tubes, why was the child as clean as a new pin when she was hiding around the corner and he lightning hit her? The silents who had dominated the planet for millions of years allow the Doctor to go through 8 minutes of banter and just do...nothing....? No mention of "we've seen this room before" as they are standing in the control centre of the silents? You would have thought someone would have said something. 4) Why did the human race suddenly decide to go to the moon? Because the Silents needed a space suit. Just......no. I am so sorry, but that is just implausibly poor writing. There could have been a billion and one other reasons. I agree with the concept of them controlling mans destiny, but good lord..... all for a space suit? 5) That end shot. It really affected me in a way I thought impossible. I won't get out my soap box here but I am one who is appalled by violence/injustice/neglect to children. (as are most of us I would think.) the sight of that child staggering around the skip coughing; chilled to her core and admitting that she was dying ACTUALLY brought tears to my eyes. That was one powerful moment for me that added gravitas to the following event. The acceptance of death. My firm belief? The child is not a time lord. "I know how to fix it......" words of one who is just discovering what she is capable of, not a gift she was born with...... and the look of wonderment enough to swell a million hearts. I WILL not share my theory of whom (I believe) she is. That is not for now (christian_bale would hunt me down!!) 6) River Song IS a bad-ass. The full on fight at the end, her blazing away back to back with the Doc (who needs to build a cabinet- funny as fuck).... yes. This is the River Song I would pay to see. So, moments of genius. Moments of madness, moments of WTF, moments of Huh?, moments of pure emotion.... ....in other words everything that makes Who great.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:19 a.m. CST

    As regards negative comments on the skin tally marks....

    by sam jacksons wig

    .... what else did you want to happen with them? They were a plot device to show just how many times the silents had been seen. How can you blow that off? How can it be underexplained? Do you want the characters to spend 3 minutes discussing and comparing how many tally marks they have as opposed to the others? You SEE them drawing on their skins. That is enough. What DON'T people get?

  • May 1, 2011, 3:29 a.m. CST

    So

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Putting aside my concerns for the show last night, what in restrospect do I like - The solution to the Silence menace --nice The Richard Nixon pieces--- pulling Nixon out of a hat whenever you needed a bit of pull was reminiscent of the Woody Allen cinema queue joke. Canton Delaware was good. On the clever stuff- River seemed to get confused about whether she had kissed the Doctor before. She understands the two timelines as well as anybody so this was strange unless something has happened, off-screen as it were, within this adventure, which has now tipped her off that there is another Doctor milling about.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:34 a.m. CST

    Sam

    by 2LeggedFreak

    The tally marks were imagery over practicality. How the hell do you keep count of the tally marks on your face without constantly looking in a mirror. Would even a pen and paper be more practical. River Song on the run with a dinner dress and tally marks all over her face isn't going to stand out.? Sorry matey but the more you think about it the more nonsensical the idea is.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:43 a.m. CST

    Well, that wouldn't have worked in Sri Lanka.

    by Shan

    The message to kill The Silents in the moon landing broadcast wouldn't have worked for us in Sri Lanka because we didn't get television until the 1980s. And if half a billion were watching the broadcast in 1969, 3.1 billion or so weren't; of those watching a lot wouldn't have understood English and hence the suggestion to kill the Silents ... and well ... most of the planet wouldn't have seen the command and many of those who did wouldn't have understood it. Also by now, a lot of the people who saw the command in the broadcast would be dead now, leaving maybe a few hundred million at most out of 7 billion people today. But otherwise, good plan.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:53 a.m. CST

    You're right Shari, but

    by catlettuce4

    the Doctor did say the footage would be repeated again and again for ever to do its job.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:53 a.m. CST

    Shan -- you don't get it

    by HornOrSilk

    The Silent is recorded in the message -for all eternity. Each time it is watched, people see and get the command. It doesn't matter when they see it, it will come. This is why it will affect humanity not just then, but for all time.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:53 a.m. CST

    2legged- hello matey!

    by sam jacksons wig

    From a visual point of view, and let's remember that this is a show, how else would you convey menace regarding how many times a silent had been seen and have impact? Draw on your skin to give drama, unease and convey just how often the bad guys had been encountered? Let the audience know that you may even do something more sisnister to yourself? (yes, I read that into it..) Or walk around with a pad and a pen? that would not work storywise, my friend.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:54 a.m. CST

    Shan

    by 2LeggedFreak

    The point is that anybody watching the moon landing now still sees that message--and then forgets they've seen it The Silence seemed largely based in the US so this would be enough to give them a big scare.

  • May 1, 2011, 4:33 a.m. CST

    Silence in the Library

    by HornOrSilk

    I'm even more convinced the Vashta Nerada were the Silence or working with the silence in the future. For some reason, they like space suits. What is even more interesting is that in Silence in the Library, there is a "Doctor Moon" and a young girl, Charlotte, which somehow mirror what we got in "Day of the Moon." I wonder if they would somehow do a kind of "Back to the Future" scene with "Silence in the Library" showing someone (the Doctor?) seeing the Silence before forgetting them and only seeing the shadows.

  • May 1, 2011, 4:46 a.m. CST

    i do recall making similar points

    by emeraldboy

    hornorsilk but i was dismissed.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:02 a.m. CST

    The vashta nerada attacked the people wearing the spacesuits...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ..becasue they were wearing the space suits, and it is highly unlikely they did it for any other reason. I am sure if they were dressed in hot pants and bikinis the outcome would have been the same, abiet slightly messier. I do, however believe that the sielnce in the library has deeper conotations and have theorised this over many a DocBack. We shall see.....

  • May 1, 2011, 5:06 a.m. CST

    Wasn't there one death in the library different from the rest

    by HornOrSilk

    And that instead of talking to the dead, the Doctor talked to something else inside the space suit? That I thought never made sense, but now... again... could it have been a Silence in that suit?

  • May 1, 2011, 5:07 a.m. CST

    The kid and the Doctor in that episode were also explained.

    by sam jacksons wig

    We know who she was and her untimely fate courtsey of Mr Steve Pemberton. However I would love to have a tie in with this series just for stirring the pot and opening up an even bigger plot arc.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:11 a.m. CST

    We think we know, Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    There is a difference. We think we know. It might be, or, it might be an opening for something more. My point is that the parallel is odd.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:12 a.m. CST

    Wasn't there even a

    by HornOrSilk

    "you have forgotten again" statement from Doctor Moon? A throw out line which now ties with the Silence and how people forget when they see the Silence?

  • May 1, 2011, 5:23 a.m. CST

    Sam Jacksons Wig

    by donkey_lasher

    No mention of "we've seen this room before" as they are standing in the control centre of the silents? The Doctor recognises the ship as soon as he exits the Tardis. I think he said he'd been there before, but it was abandoned. "why? I suppose i'm about to find out"

  • May 1, 2011, 5:54 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk - it is all supposition, though isn't it?

    by sam jacksons wig

    That's what makes it all so interesting, raher than having the knowledge or pre-sight. :)

  • May 1, 2011, 6:04 a.m. CST

    Sam -- of course

    by HornOrSilk

    What I often do is just have a lot of "out loud" speculation. I've hit on many plot points before this point -- I really surprised people when I caught on to the Face of Boe/Jack connection years ago; of course, it also is open to being wrong but I'm fine with that. I just try to think of "what could be a surprise which is there in the open."

  • May 1, 2011, 6:05 a.m. CST

    The voice in the Tardis.(spoilers)

    by sam jacksons wig

    I alone cannot help feeling slightly disappointed over the fact that it was only a silent? One of the biggest piece of theorising from last series to this had us pondering over just who the voice in the Tardis was. Now I am wondering how it got there and how it is controlling what happens inside. It has also been mentioned that these ugly beasties are in thrawl to something far far worse than they. So if they have been shaping the world for millions of years, just who is controlling them? With billions of years of timelord history (according to Rassilon), would it be plausible not to stray too far from Galifrey?

  • May 1, 2011, 6:08 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk- the girl was just a projection of her true form.

    by sam jacksons wig

    With everything she had under her control wouldn't it be possible that a few things would leak out? After all, the programme written for her necesitated the fact that she think herself alive to cope with all things.....

  • May 1, 2011, 6:16 a.m. CST

    Okay- big question......

    by sam jacksons wig

    If the silents or silence depending on your predilection have the uncanny knack of making others forget they have seen them and hav been hiding that way for millions of years, how in the name of buggery do other races know of them and mention them? We were even shown this in a flashback! Surely once out of sight they would have been instantly forgotten, or are we assuming that prisoner zero et al came upon the very same knack of recording their forms?

  • Maybe, you forget you see them once you turn away, but, not the memory of the race themselves once you have it. Like when the Doctor and the rest of them were talking about the Silent and Canton fixed the Doctor's bow tie to test the hand recorder. Canton kept the memory of the Silent, just not the memory of seeing it.

  • Does the phrase, "Smile for the camera!" mean anything to you? LOL Or, "A picture is worth a thousand words."

  • Smart girl

  • May 1, 2011, 6:48 a.m. CST

    SPOILERS - the doctor gets cloned later on in the series

    by Candy ass monkey suit

    Maybe this is the other doctor who got killed at the start of ep 1, maybe moffat has some timey wimey reason for all of this.

  • May 1, 2011, 6:50 a.m. CST

    Good thought Axcel

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    That would help explain their mention in 'Vampires Of Venice'. In that episode Helen McCrory said they'd come to Earth to get away from the silence. So the vampire fish knew enough about the silence to want to get away from them, but didn't know they were also here on Earth too. Since every time they'd have seen an individual one they would have forgotten about it immediately.

  • May 1, 2011, 6:59 a.m. CST

    @donkey_lasher

    by Phil Lamarre

    how do you know we see an older version of River?

  • That might be the same reason Prisoner Zero came to Earth, well, partly the reason, I know the crack had something to do with, too.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:05 a.m. CST

    @seph_j

    by Phil Lamarre

    are you implying that River Song is a timelord? there's nothing pointing to that. If she was The Doctor would know she was. It's established that timelords know when someone else is a timelord. And so even if River had regenerated The Doctor would still know who she was if he had met her before his 10th version. I wont say she wont be revealed as a timelord but there, but she certainly never met him before #10

  • May 1, 2011, 7:07 a.m. CST

    if you look at the pandorica...

    by emeraldboy

    opens episode the dr says something about the most feared being in the galaxy. so hear is what we know from season 5.. the slience were there in the background but they were unheared of untill episode one. the pandorica will open silence will fall.... they used the cracks to creep into earth and then began taking over the planet. which was handy for them as nobody knew they were there. but before taking over the earth they had taken over other planets. using post hypnotic thought made them powerful and it was easy for them to control the alliance. the silence used amys imagination to trap the dr and also wipe out any memory amy had of her parents or relatives or for that matter other alien races such as the daleks. they mentally screwed with amy by putting her in a room with pictures of her young self. we have had yet to meet the head silent who is i believe the most feared being the galaxy, the dr knows who it is and all gallifreyans do. but this being invokes so much fear and terror that gallifreyans dont speak his name.....

  • Do we really need the Moff to hit us over the head with info to explain what this and that is every 5 or so minutes? I think not, I think we are a pretty smart bunch of people.

  • emeraldboy just proved my point, WOW!!!!!!!!

  • May 1, 2011, 7:25 a.m. CST

    I get it.

    by Shan

    The (sad) reality is that most people haven't seen the moon landing. What's more alarming is that increasing numbers of people don't even know that we landed on the moon. For the narrative it doesn't matter though. <p> On an interesting note, they actually lost or taped over the master recording of the original moon landing. They had a few features on in the last year or so because they thought they might find it in Australia. I wonder if it was an alien plot?

  • May 1, 2011, 7:33 a.m. CST

    speculation about major arc of the series.

    by notspock2

    The Doctor has often talked about "fixed points" - things in history that have to happen. However we see two things in the episode where things that were in people's past experience, aren't. Or at least are in flux. 1. The Doctor's History with River,- she expects him to know her, and he doesn't. 2. Amy's Pregnancy with the Tardis scanner showing she is, then isn't, with child. Perhaps it's both at the same time, and we're being given a visual representation of wibbly wobbly timey wimey? This suggests to me that each character's present is currently being affected by actions that will be taken in the future, that will affect their past. Given the other big bit of Timey wimeyness that's going on is the doctors death, it seems resonable to think that the solution to that is tied up in these other two events.- perhaps they are the consequences of a choice they haven't made yet to save the doctor??

  • May 1, 2011, 7:38 a.m. CST

    One other possibility with the girl and how she regenerates

    by HornOrSilk

    Somehow the Doctor gave her that ability when he didn't regenerate -- that it was his plan for some reason to allow the girl to have his regeneration... probably not, but still... a thought

  • May 1, 2011, 7:42 a.m. CST

    History101

    by Smashing

    Amy was with The Silence at least 5 days as the NASA announcer says it's taken 5 days for the capsule to get to the moon, Amy had been with The Silence since the capsules launch, hence at least 5 days.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:47 a.m. CST

    The hatchy patchy woman was an awful Lost rip off.

    by Smashing

    That man in Lost with an eye patch who mysteriously appeared on a video camera, now he's a woman opening a dream door in Doctor Who, anyone remember when the show was a fun romp? Oh History 101 again how would River know what Rory was reacting too if she wouldn't be able to remember The Silence, it was just another error, the episode was full of them. Again I don't care as it's a serialized television science fiction show but I'm surprised there not being ripped apart as proof of Moff's uselessness in here, as every small mistake used to be, I wonder what's changed? To say it was the best series opened ever seems close to a mental break down to me, it was an exciting non story but so full of rushed moments that I just felt it was all set up and no real focus.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:52 a.m. CST

    Oh and the biggest plot hole of all.

    by Smashing

    Which before I mention it I'm sure Moff wil sort this out as it's too big not to fix but... River obviously died jumping off the building 1st time, and he went back, changed time and saved her, so Rose, Adric, Donna, the Mars base, etc, all are savable now as he can change history for cheap jokes remember.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:54 a.m. CST

    AMAZING!!!

    by Eternal Optimist

    Wow. That was incredible television!!! Together, these two episodes were some of the best television I've seen... in ages! Does anyone know where I can get the music which played during The Doctor's final confrontation with The Silence? I thought that piece of music was... out of this world!!! Thank you Mr Moffat for such... great television!!!

  • May 1, 2011, 8:05 a.m. CST

    smashing

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Whilst I've got a lot of sympathy for your recent points the River saving piece isn't one I'd subscribe to. River jumps on faith that the Doctor will materialise to save her. I don't agree with the implication that she dies and then he changes time. He materialises at that point to save her , he doesn't alter time.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:10 a.m. CST

    smashing: biggest plot hole...

    by LostCause

    Depends on your take of time travel. it makes perfect sense using the Bill and Ted time travel model haha :P <br> I personally love Moffat's who. You actually need to think, you need to go back and watch the episodes again and notice everything<BR><BR> And to the people saying about mistakes.... surely everyone hasn't forgotten the rory badge "mistake" that cam back into play later? <BR> I believe Moff is a smart enough and talented writer that all of this will make sense when all of the pieces are revealed, and not a moment before. <BR> He's obviously planned this out as no-one would be stupid enough to try to link the majority of episodes he's written into one big mess of dead-ends and red herrings. <BR> I myself am going to go back and watch the library episode again, along with every episode from last season and the most recent 2 again and see exactly what's going on... <BR> I also think what felt like a HUGE skip forward from the end of the 1st episode to this episode will be shown at a later date revealing all the things we're speculating now, as it didn't feel fluent where they easily could have made it feel like it was meant to be like that.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:11 a.m. CST

    One thing I would say though, Smashing

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Is that those shenanigans with saving River and also a one episode gap between showing us the Tardis has a stealth mode and then using it to escape the inescapable prison is turning the old blue box into the ultimate deus ex. And of course it is, but its been used minimally in this regard in the past. There can be very little in the way of risk for the Doctor and his companions going forward if there could always be an invisible tardis in the background.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:13 a.m. CST

    River had to have died 2.

    by Smashing

    She jumped out a building, no one was there to tell the doc until at least the time it takes to get from NY to Nevada so unless she was somehow suspended mid fall for at least hours she died then he went back, changed time and saved her.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:18 a.m. CST

    Smashing

    by HornOrSilk

    The Doctor was told what happened. He knows River. So he knows River jumped expecting him to save her.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:20 a.m. CST

    2leggedfreak

    by HornOrSilk

    The Doctor and the TARDIS are meant to be powerful. However, this does not mean other races can't do things to make the TARDIS appear or (as the Daleks have shown possible), destroy it. In the wake of the Time War, the Doctor is "one of the gods" though it is clear, he is going to find his Titan-like status crashing soon....

  • May 1, 2011, 8:21 a.m. CST

    Yes Horn I know.

    by Smashing

    And he did save her, but not first time as he was in prison and no one told him where she was.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:22 a.m. CST

    eternaloptimist! Adam West's Batman IS BACK!!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 1, 2011, 8:23 a.m. CST

    Smashing

    by HornOrSilk

    When he was in prison, he was told by Canton Everett Delaware III.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:25 a.m. CST

    smashing: you're not thinking 4th dimensionally...

    by LostCause

    river was always going to fall into the tardis and not the ground, same as when she dove into cold space to escape with the alien black box thing.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:25 a.m. CST

    2legged- agree! She knew she wouldn't die, hence the knowing wink.

    by sam jacksons wig

    It was probably a point raised during the 3 month search for the terrible beasties that we just didn't know about. And they would rely on Canton to let them know when and where (and if) she would bite it as he was the one searching for her.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:25 a.m. CST

    Horn by that point she'd have gone splat.

    by Smashing

    She dove in NY, Canton witnessed, he travels to Nevada to tell the Doc, he goes and saves River, but she had to have been dead in that time line for Canton to go tell him the news, it's a paradox and one the show has avoided since the 60's. Or tried too. Now I'm confused as to why Canton was chasing them down if they where all on the same side anyway? why was the doc in prison?

  • May 1, 2011, 8:26 a.m. CST

    Smashing

    by HornOrSilk

    You are thinking too linear. She didn't go splat because the Doctor was told and so was there to meet her... j

  • May 1, 2011, 8:28 a.m. CST

    And as to why the prison, etc

    by HornOrSilk

    Because until the Doctor got his plans set and knew about the Silence enough to make the plans, he needed to hide out. But he didn't want to have the Silence know what he was doing. He closed himself in, and made it look like he was prisoner -- with the government chasing him and his companions -- so that the Silence would overlook them

  • May 1, 2011, 8:30 a.m. CST

    smashing - but she DIDN'T die. Time had changed.

    by sam jacksons wig

    The only way she would have died is if the Doc hadn't been there to save her in the first place. It is no good saying but she would have- by that point time had moved on differently. No-one saw her die. Even Canton said she jumped off a skyscraper. The event had already happened!!!! Wierd, huh??

  • May 1, 2011, 8:30 a.m. CST

    Smashing

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    You need to wrap your head around the concept of time travel. There was no "first time", just as there was no "second time". River jumped out of that window and the TARDIS was there to save her. It's always been there to save her. If I aimed a gun at you in the street and pulled the trigger, and years later someone invented a time machine to save you, you wouldn't die because time has been re-written. I would pull the trigger and someone would push you out of the way. As far as both you and I know, you would never have been struck by that bullet because the timeline has been changed. It doesn't matter that your friend invented a time machine years after I successfully shot you. Everything between me shooting the gun and your friend travelling back in time no longer exists. It's been erased from history and never happened. Does that make sense? Sorry for using such a grim example.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Damn you Wig.

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    For being .21 seconds earlier with an answer than I was.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:33 a.m. CST

    What about...

    by Fuck The Napkin

    The spacesuit capturing River and making her kill the Doctor. She knows it's going to happen so she invites everyone to be there. That's why she ends up in prison. Also, the face at the hatch, saying 'she's dreaming'... could it be anything to do with the dream girl/computer/consciousness from 'Silents' in the Library'? Need to watch that episode again, I think. I loved 'Day of the Moon', by the way. Very different feel to other Whos - it looked great. I can see it's utterly baffling for people who haven't been watching carefully since last season, but it's an exciting baffling so I'd hope they'd stick with it.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:34 a.m. CST

    You guys...

    by Smashing

    Stop acting as though fictional time travel was a know reality, it's a plot error, he wasn't there to save her originally hence he had to go back in time to save her, he wouldn't have had to do that if he'd saved her originally.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:35 a.m. CST

    Also one could argue that River had died multiple times....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ... as in the time of angels where she jettisoned out into space. But she didn't because the Doc was there to save her. Time had been re-written.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:42 a.m. CST

    It's not a plot error Smashing!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    She didn't die originally! This is why a paradox works. If you go back and time and kill your own grandfather, he never existed and neither do you. You've changed time and whatever would have happened after your grandfather's death no longer did. More intelligent people than myself have already put this theory forward.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:44 a.m. CST

    smashing: Might want to accept it or move on.

    by LostCause

    Every tv show that deals with time travel establishes their own rules and then follows them, and sometimes bends them. Moffat has already demonstrated that he loves to play with the rules of time travel, and seeing as its a key aspect of the show, you can choose one of two options:<BR> 1. You can accept the rules as Moffat wants them to be and follow the show, <BR> 2. You can say he was wrong, its a plot error, second guess everything else that happens from that point on, and then complain that the overall story arc doesn't make sense in the end. <BR> We're not trying to tell you how time travel works/doesn't work, we're just saying how moffat's works. (or more accurately, our perception of how he says it works)

  • May 1, 2011, 8:44 a.m. CST

    It's not fiction mate, it's the law of theoretical physics.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Imagine going back in time and talking Hitler into not going into Russia, and giving him the details of the D Day landings. Hitler has 2 choices- do nothing therefore time remains the same. Or change history. It is called causality. If Hitler changed what he did and anything turned out differently then the time line as we know it would cease to be. Everything would change around us and we would be no different- accepting things as they are because we would have been born into that time line. It's crazy, I know, but trust me. Imagine someone going back in time and causing an event that stops your mother from meeting your father. You would not exist.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:45 a.m. CST

    why do we assume River didn't plan on jumping?

    by MoffatBabies

  • May 1, 2011, 8:48 a.m. CST

    Sam

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Well, I beat you that time. Move over, buddy. A faster pair of fingers has arrived in town. (Let your wife know)

  • May 1, 2011, 8:53 a.m. CST

    Doctor saving River

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    In my mind the Doctor doesn't change a timeline to do this. He does what has always happened. River dives off the building knowing the Tardis will turn up. It doesn't matter how far in the future the Doctor hears about this. He knows he has to go put the Tardis there. And so he does. It has only ever happened that way. There is no changed timeline.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:53 a.m. CST

    er. damn you. Fucking keypad piece of shit.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 1, 2011, 8:54 a.m. CST

    "You have been here many days..."

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I just had a thought. What if The Silent didn't mean "You've been here a long time" when he was speaking to Amy but, instead, meant "You've been here many times before".....

  • May 1, 2011, 8:58 a.m. CST

    Theoretical physics...

    by Smashing

    Means unknown, a theory, also wouldn't saving her over and over create many parallel universes? You guys seem to be acting as though I haven't just demonstrated I not only understand theoretical physics but demonstrated in this instance why it all falls apart. If he was always there to rescue her he wouldn't need to go back in time to do so, paradox. I understand it's all fiction, and I am happy to extend my shield of acceptance to cover these River moments it's all just a something... Sam your Hiller example whilst valid for one type of liner travel doesn't really cover the people falling off buildings one. She would have to die for him to need to save her, she was a moving object in a dimensional environment, now time travel may save her but not the original version, the alpha River would have died, maybe all this River saving is what causes the cracks in the universe? Lostcause I'll stay right here thanks, why don't you move on instead?

  • May 1, 2011, 9 a.m. CST

    CBale the grandfather paradox isn't a fact.

    by Smashing

    It'sd a theory based on what we used to think would happen, thepry. What if you did go back and kill your grandfather and a parallel universe was created, no one would wink out of existence as they already existed in the original time line.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:02 a.m. CST

    OMG

    by Smashing

    As I typed here the Power of Love by Hewey Louis just started playing at the pub fete next to my flat, spooky.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:03 a.m. CST

    sam jackson-

    by notspock2

    "Imagine someone going back in time and causing an event that stops your mother from meeting your father. You would not exist." As a counterpoint- if you go back in time with the specific intention of stopping someone's mother from meeting their father, by succeeding, you'd erase your motivation for going back in time...

  • May 1, 2011, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Smashing

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    I don't think there are any solid facts when it comes to time travel, sadly. At least until I turn my wardrobe into a functioning time machine. I'll then test out the grandfather paradox theory on Dioxholster's grandfather, and we'll have us some solid facts!

  • May 1, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Smashing's hole (SPOILERS)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Canton didn't remark on how he didn't find River's body after her dive because if he had to remark on every weird thing that was going on he'd have been expositing for most of the episode. Oh, and there's another plausible reason River looks shocked that the blue Dr didn't remember kissing her before is that this means he's about to be so young he won't remember her at all - and that means she's about to die in the Library. But about that ... well, she's not dead. She's safe in the Library. And if you think people saved in the library can't come back to flesh-and-blood life, well, maybe you need to watch "forest of the dead" again ... 4022 saved, what's one more?

  • May 1, 2011, 9:08 a.m. CST

    was there a tribute to Lis Sladen in this episode?

    by Cap'n Jack

    There wasn't in the US broadcast, and I'm pissed. Does anyone have a youtube link or anything? Thanks.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:10 a.m. CST

    Bastard kids!!! Where's a fucking Tardis when you need one!!

    by sam jacksons wig

    I fucking swear to christ!! A fucking Burberry coat owned by my eldest daughter found by my youngest, covered in shit under the trampoline at the bottom of the fucking garden and left out in the rain all night! I AM NOT FUCKING HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • May 1, 2011, 9:13 a.m. CST

    Sam just go back and save the coat from being ruined.

    by Smashing

    What's that you can't as your motivation for going would be removed by the saving, hmm! 8)

  • May 1, 2011, 9:15 a.m. CST

    what I got so far ...

    by Beniffer

    If the baby in question is in some sort of "flux" it could be because it might belong to the Dr OR it could be Rorys. Something is manipulating Rory through the Pond/Dr relationship, probably hoping he will lash out and take revenge on the Dr. If Rory is getting jealous of the Dr, and a future timeline exists where Amy and the Dr have a child and Rory isn't in the picture, this could cause Rory to kill the Dr. The Dr would be alright with this, to stop the future possible timeline, as it would not be fair to Rory or Amy if it did happen (he might be seeing himself falling in love with Amy and know what pain that could cause a non-immortal) ** on a limb, the person in the hatch, could be a guard at the prison from the 1st Smith/Pond ep, who knows why, or if Pond is still being affected by this. OR, something to do with the timelords themselves. The Dr has attempted to change his fate in the past and there was a trial to sort it out. A stretch, however, like I said, out on a limb. This could be a test by the timelords to see if the Dr can still be objective when it comes to the humans. The timelords might be controlling the Pond somehow. The silence might be the tools of the timelords. I think there is something still manipulating Pond and the Dr .. the silence seems to be either a new introduction of baddies or a pawn being used by something bigger.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Smashing

    by 2LeggedFreak

    I liken Rivers jumps to somebody throwing the ball in American football. The thrower ( or whatever they are called) doesn't throw the ball to where the other player is, they throw it to where they are going to be. River knows the Doctor will be there to catch her. And this pre-ordained circumstance stops it being a cheat and is why it can't be used to save other companions. There is no foresight or foreplanning in their deaths, its what always was going to happen. Just like Rivers jumps were always going to result in her being caught by the Doctor. You also don't know that in her earlier life and the Doctors future he hasn't told her of her exact moment of death, which in a way, up until that point , makes her unkillable, or at least has her armed with the fore-knowledge that, no matter what extravagant play she comes up with, she is likely to survive. On the prison piece you have got to assume that Canton and the Doc and his companions hatched a bluff to fool the silence. i.e. the silence thought they were being hunted down and imprisoned , when in fact they were building themselves a soundproof room. Of course if I was the Silence I might be asking who taught the humans how to build the densest material in the universe.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:18 a.m. CST

    The paradox view

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    All of the best time travel fiction contain paradoxes. It doesn't change my enjoyment of them.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:25 a.m. CST

    diox how?

    by Smashing

    The Gate franchise is dead, hard to join a dead anything, shame too as SGU whilst often silly is never the less hugely entertaining, and to cancel a show with Rob Carlyle in it is just rude.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:25 a.m. CST

    caractacuspotts

    by 2LeggedFreak

    River kissing shock. I don't buy that explanation unless they have lost the plot with the dual time-lines. We have been told that the Doctors and Rivers timelines are going in opposite directions. Even the simplest person, i.e. me, would then be aware that River kissing this Doctor for say the second time, wouldn't mean anything to him because, its a future Doctor who gets the first kiss. Thats unarguable. So why the shock ? Well whilst the two timelines are going in opposite directiosn they are linear for the duration of the adventures the two have when they meet periodically. So somewhere off-screen in this particular adventure has she kissed the Doctor and if so why doesn't he remember? Was it a different Doctor. This is one of those that I am torn between thinking, was this a poor understanding of the rules that the Moff himself has written for the Doctor or is it a big clue something else is going on. I plump for the latter.

  • She has to complete the fall to die, if the Doctor get the TARDIS there before she hits the ground, she doesn't. By placing the TARDIS sideways, moving the corriders so that the first room she enters has the swimming pool, it stops her fall. The time-travel angle has already been explained by some of our smarter Who fans.

  • I am fucking sick to death of you. You sad pathetic cunt, you will probably end up raping a 90 year old man 3 months from now. Do the world a favour- crawl into a hole and fucking stay there!!!

  • May 1, 2011, 9:30 a.m. CST

    @smashing Time Travel rules

    by Phil Lamarre

    My first point : Who cares if she dies the first time, it's not integral to the story they are trying to tell. The problem with time travel stories they're very seldom perfect. You're kind of right though but it depends on the rules you want to establish. scenario 1: Everything has already happened past present and future there's one straight and narrow time line and no revisions, no second or third run through. But if that's the case you cannot rewrite time, which they've said you can do scenario 2: This is the "someone kills loved one, then future you comes back to stop said killing." scenario. After the original run through happens and you save your loved one 2 things can happen. 1. since no one dies the time machine is not created so you don't go back to save them so they do actually die which causes you to build a time machine and you do save them...rinse repeat. You're now in a time loop. 2. after you save your loved you somehow tell yourself you need to build a time machine to come back and save them. This would ensure that there's always a time machine that is built and stops the loop from happening. scenario 3: The laziest of the three, separate time lines. This happens once a paradox is created. from the moment the paradox happens a new time line is created and goes on along side the original without ever overlapping again. But when telling a story sometimes writers just use what rule gets them to the point in their story they're trying to tell. Personally, When writing a time travel story there's no excuse for paradoxes. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to find a way to work out your story and follow the rules. Having said that I usually don't let most paradoxes ruin the story. Like River dyeing, that's not the story they're telling so I'm going to ignore it. If this doesn't make sense please point it out to me. Talking about time travel can give one a headache

  • May 1, 2011, 9:32 a.m. CST

    beniffer-confirmed that there is something bigger out there. But what?

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 1, 2011, 9:45 a.m. CST

    River and Doctors Kiss

    by Phil Lamarre

    I didn't realize this was so hard for people. She looks surprised because she's clearly kissed the Doctor many times in her past. But this is the first time for her that he acts weird about it. She doesn't know why at first but then he confirms that this was the first time he has kissed her. (remember they're going in different directions in time line) There's no need to complicate this with talking about multiple doctors. The next time he sees her they'll kiss again I'm sure, but he wont act weird about. Maybe someday we'll see the first time River kisses him in her timeline.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:46 a.m. CST

    Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    Time Lords? I still think this might be one of the big reveals of the season. Somehow they are back. They had to break through time and space to do it. Omega possibly behind it all. Maybe he even recruited the Silence to make the cracks in time so that the Time Lords can break through the Time War itself.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:47 a.m. CST

    I don't get the confusion over River

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    From her point of view: She meets The Doctor and they kiss. She meets The Doctor and they kiss. She meets The Doctor and he expresses shock when they kiss. She realises that (from his point of view) this is their first kiss. As she already knows that their next meeting will involve a Doctor who hasn't experienced this moment yet, she knows that they'll never kiss again. She meets The Doctor and they don't kiss. Am I missing something?

  • May 1, 2011, 9:47 a.m. CST

    Space Suit and other points

    by TheFerretLives

    How come some people are theorising that the Doctor or Timelords built the space suit the girl was in? Wasn't this explained in the episode when they said the Silents waited for us to go to the Moon just so we could build a space suit? I know it had "optional extras" (to quote Dalton in The Living Daylights) but I assumed this was added by the Silents or made by us following hypnotic suggestion. The points about the marks on their skin, yes when you think about it it becomes a bit silly, even my 9 year old autistic son noticed this and also pointed out that everyone used the same colour pen! But at the end of the day this is a TV show and as such has certain devices and affectations and visually it was effective. It is similar to Star Trek Nitpicker Guides that point out some glaring mistake early on in an episode or a very simple act that would've changed everything and the answer to why this wasn't done is simple, cos it would've made for a bloody short episode! Some things are just plot devices. You also have to remember that Moffat has made Who more like a dark fairytale and a bit more mythological which I think is great as I was a bit sick of the cold "everything including santa claus is an alien" kinda logic. So nitpicking scientifically or even over logic is a bit redundant. He's said that this series is a bit more nightmarish and things like those marks are like something out of dream logic. Think of the most famous fairy tales, they have glaringly illogical moments but are otherwise memorably visual or nightmarish, you wouldn't nitpick why little red riding hood stood around for ages asking why her grandmother's teeth, eyes etc were so big when it was obvious it was a wolf or what the big bad wolf was up to whilst the three little pigs went about building their houses!

  • May 1, 2011, 9:48 a.m. CST

    We've all figured out time travel then

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    And they said it would be complicated. Pah!

  • I guess we will have to put up with this trolling fucker every DocBack. What say we take a census and just ignore the bastard from now on? Who's with me?

  • May 1, 2011, 9:51 a.m. CST

    I thought the time lords where the weeping angels?

    by Smashing

    Medusa cascade is the temporal time war place, Medusa turned people to stone, the angels displaced you in time, too far a reach?

  • May 1, 2011, 9:52 a.m. CST

    evilred that makes sense.

    by Smashing

    sort of!

  • May 1, 2011, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Time Agents - Historical Record 233376#

    by 2LeggedFreak

    In 2032 Billy "Dean" Toffeehammer, known to the internet community as dioxholster was appointed president of the United States of America. A strong advocate of inter-breeding he introduced and legalised the "Marry your sister" bill which was to lead to a catastrophic and widespread break-down in society across the world. Various attempts to oust him were undertaken but his pig-eyed stupidity and natural cunning enabled him to shake off all physical and intellectual assaults. Within the wreckage of civilisation though, the first official time machines were being built in Area 51. One of the first sanctioned missions was the alteration of the past to remove dioxholsters threat without totally destroying the existing time-line. It was agreed by psychiatrists that mentally he was somewhat of a one trick pony and that, if the right topic was chosen, he could be distracted from his disastrous destiny. TV being the pursuit of the day, various attempts were made to engage him by planting ideas with Producers which were stupid enough for his porcine intelligence to latch onto. Early attempts, such as "Saved by the Bell", "The Love Boat- The Next wave", "Keeping up with Kardashians", proved too intellectual to hold his interest but eventually the successful development of a Stargate series was to pay dividends. This programme and its offshoots were to keep the dioxholster busy for many years with the result that he never ran for president and society was to go on in leaps and bounds.

  • May 1, 2011, 9:54 a.m. CST

    hornorsilk- my goodness, on the same page twice in one lifetime!! ;)

    by sam jacksons wig

    I am in complete agreement. There is something fishy about all of this. And I have gone on record saying that the Omega is behind it all, only to be chastised for my belief!!! We've had Rassilon, now we need either Omega or the Black Guardian and I will swoon with absolute delight!!!!

  • May 1, 2011, 9:55 a.m. CST

    purple - what's complicated? HAHAHAHAHAA!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 1, 2011, 9:56 a.m. CST

    River and Doctor are not exactly inverse

    by HornOrSilk

    I don't believe they are. Think about it, River talked about their last time before Silence and it was a "future" Doctor, "her" Doctor who came and gave her the screwdriver. So I do think in the Doctor's future he will be with River in her penultimate meeting with him...

  • Anything is possible and frequently is. "In different circles we keep spinning round and round and round."

  • May 1, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Christian

    by 2LeggedFreak

    Doh !!! Yes you're right and I was being a bit thick. Thanks

  • May 1, 2011, 10:03 a.m. CST

    That inpenetrable cell

    by TheFerretLives

    I just took that to be a bit of an injoke about it being in Area 51 and probably Alien Tech. I could be wrong though.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:04 a.m. CST

    smashing - I fear so mate... not long enough arms for that reach....

    by sam jacksons wig

  • May 1, 2011, 10:05 a.m. CST

    I would love to see

    by emeraldboy

    Ian mcDiarmiad as a dr who villain but its not going to happen. a sith like race of time lords. and its leader is coming after the dr. and the dr doesnt know it yet. this person created the silence.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:07 a.m. CST

    @hornorsilk

    by Phil Lamarre

    You're right They will have that one meeting where both of their time lines match up with the exception of the library. But It's in both their futures. I see that meeting when he gives her the sonic as more then that. He's giving her himself as a gift. for her up to that point she thought she would never have a romantic moment with him again but he surprises her.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:10 a.m. CST

    Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    I've heard speculation of Omega being behind it all since last season. I think it is a good theory - whether or not it pans out. I also think we might find the re-existence of the Time Lords in "The Doctor's Wife." I could be wrong, but we will see.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:11 a.m. CST

    They say they shot in the US to increase the US audience

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    But then they wrote a storyline that makes Americans look very bad. It just makes no sense. Why travel all the way over here to give us the finger, we already knew they didn't like us. Having said that, I like this incarnation of Dr who in general so I'm overlooking the stupidity.

  • That way she wouldn't know about the Silence... otherwise she would.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:16 a.m. CST

    the last time the time lords were used

    by emeraldboy

    was horrendous. dalton spitting and all that. apart from ian mcdiarmid. the idea of brian blessed chewing scenery as the baddie is way beyond awesome. or brian cox. or derek jacobi. i cant think of any other hamming thesp. apart from robert hardy.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Forget the paradoxes

    by I am not a number

    Anyone else wonder how they faked Amy and Rory's deaths? Canton, while surrounded by agents, shoots them both. Next scene is them in body bags. How did he convince the other agents that he had shot them?

  • May 1, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    i was on youtube there

    by emeraldboy

    and someon snapped a picture of david tennant on the set of dr who.... bringing tennant back into the show as a villain would be a master stroke. all the stuff on youtube is bollox regarding dr who. but I did see that pic.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:21 a.m. CST

    something bigger ...

    by Beniffer

    Well, timelords, master (new master? - woman - unknown daughter?), darleks /Davros(not really a thought yet as new "breed" or darleks - prob next season ... Also, he has been running .. refrences to this again and again .. running from what? That is, of course, the question/answer we want .. Running from his future? Running from his past? Running from death?

  • Forgive them father, for they know not what they do...... Bye for now.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:25 a.m. CST

    WAH! Why isn't anybody talking about the graffitti??

    by Perigee

    All that "GET OUT" stuff written across every wall of the orphanage? Too high for children - even the nutball could only wipe away the bottom quarter of it. Higher than the heads of Amy and Delaware. Are The Silents the first taggers on Earth? Naww. Attach this - The eyepatch lady opens a sliding panel in the door, says something to the effect, "She's dreaming...", and then closes the panel. Now, Ordinarily, where do you see those kind of slidey peepholes? Prisons, Madhouses... Ordinarily, those peepholes open from the hall, looking into the room. Not vice-versa. Then the peephole vanishes completely. Mark me, ladies and gentlemen, something is Weird about that writing.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:27 a.m. CST

    omega ....

    by Beniffer

    Omega would be a great character to reintroduve and the black guardian .. it is something from his past ... something that happened in the timewar .. something he is either ashamed of or HAD to do in order to save the Universe or multiverse. // cant wait that is all I can say

  • May 1, 2011, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Am I thick? I think I must be ...

    by unfaithfullyyours

    Why was the dr imprisoned at the beginning, but then everyone in the government is his friend and trusting him. Did I totally miss that transition?

  • May 1, 2011, 10:29 a.m. CST

    [dioxholster] [dioxholster] [dioxholster] bad boy

    by Beniffer

    troll troll troll // why does carbon take the shape of people like you to just make things bad? I truly hope you find yourself happy one day for proper reasons and not in making people dislike you. Good luck tho, you will need it ..

  • May 1, 2011, 10:31 a.m. CST

    rory and pond shooting deaths ..

    by Beniffer

    to quote Jon Luvitz .. ACTING!!! I don't have it infront of me right now .. but if only Canton fired a shot .. simple acting .. play dead .. but I agree .. weak

  • May 1, 2011, 10:31 a.m. CST

    unfaithfullyyours - for The Silents benefit

    by Perigee

    They built that cage -inpenetrable - so they could close the door and have a private place to talk. To the watchers, the doc is captured and untrusted, and his companions were dead. That gave them room to operate. Not just that, it was a cheap way of building some "Oh no - they're dead - Yay, they're alive" thrills early on.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:37 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by ThrowMeTheIdol

    I don't blame you for being annoyed with me, I did something stupid this time and posted half way through the episode before the twist. Whoops. Though you can probably see how it looked at the time. Not that I mind the US being shown in a bad light or am a flag waving super patriot but it just seemed for a little while like "oh god, more of the same".

  • May 1, 2011, 10:42 a.m. CST

    If Robert Carlyle was in Doctor Who, he'd still have a job

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Which makes me sad. I want Robert Carlyle to be on television more. Why, oh why, did he have to go with a dying franchise like Stargate?

  • May 1, 2011, 10:43 a.m. CST

    River Song

    by donkey_lasher

    I think that she is Amy's daughter. The photograph is sort of a red herring in the little girls room, as it could be of Amy and the little girls mother (river). The little girl is the offspring of River and The Doctor. (timey wimey indeed).

  • May 1, 2011, 10:57 a.m. CST

    WANTED - Missing Failgate Universe Viewers!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Syfy will pay 3 million dollars for the viewers who mysteriously disappeared between the show's pilot episode (2.346 million viewers) and the episode which aired on the 18th of April 2011 (0.861 million viewers). Where did they all go? "I don't know what happened," the head of Syfy was quoted as saying. "It's like the Titanic just sunk again, only this time it was filled with people who had previously enjoyed our show. We've been trying to work out where we might have gone wrong, but that's difficult when you had a winning formula like we did. A bunch of morose characters stuck on a ship, with nobody for the audience to identify with and one character ripped straight out of BSG. Baltar was popular, right?"

  • May 1, 2011, 11:01 a.m. CST

    perigee what a great thought.

    by Smashing

    Absolutely feels like your right there.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Bring back Susan

    by donkey_lasher

    It's sad that the ongoing complexity of the series has restricted the return of some characters. Romana would be great, as would Susan, as both could be played by anyone seeing as they can regenerate. Bringing The Rani back however wouldnt be a great move in my eyes, as she only featured in a couple of adventures.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:02 a.m. CST

    The little girl is River Song

    by mistergreen

    And daughter of Amy but not The Doctor's. Obviously that would be creepy since River & the Doctor kissed. In one scene, it was shown Amy is pregnant and not at the same time, obviously a quantum conundrum. The father is.............. drum roll..................... the Tardis.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:05 a.m. CST

    by Smashing

    http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/JCarter426/Misc/DoctorRiverSongasof30April2011.png

  • May 1, 2011, 11:09 a.m. CST

    @Smashing

    by Perigee

    "It looks like you're trying to track a Time Traveler..." http://oddisgood.com/art/clippy.jpg ~Grin~

  • May 1, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST

    @smashing

    by Phil Lamarre

    no

  • May 1, 2011, 11:20 a.m. CST

    8) perigee

    by Smashing

    I didn't create that graph I nicked it from the really aggressive posters on the IMDb, how many people in here are over there too?

  • May 1, 2011, 11:24 a.m. CST

    I don't go to IMDb (other than for occassionally checking out movie ratings)

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    But I'm on GB every now and again.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:27 a.m. CST

    No offense intended, smashing...

    by Perigee

    I clicked on the link, and something inside my pinball brain just matched the pattern up with clippy. Considering you were trying to helpfully do something, and clippy was Office's assistant, with that phrase "It looks like you're trying to..." the two just matched up too nicely not to poke the jibe. BTW... At the end of the ep, in the TARDIS, River called The Doctor her "old fella." "My old fella didn’t see that did he?" As in her "old man"...? ~Spockbrow~

  • May 1, 2011, 11:30 a.m. CST

    Slang Dictionary - "Old Man"

    by Perigee

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/old+man old man n. 1. Slang One's father. 2. Slang a. One's husband. b. One's boyfriend, especially a lover with whom one lives.

  • The one possibility that is extremely likely, yet no one has since mentioned is that the girl is none other than... The Nightmare Child. One of the many atrocities of the Time War. It's all in this episode.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:36 a.m. CST

    Shark jumped with regrenating girl.

    by shutupfanboy

    I guess my theory on Megan Fox being the next Doctor Who is right on. If the Doctor is the father then it makes him an asshole and he has to die. Rory has done everything for Amy if anything it will make Amy look like a bitch. My hope is that is Amy and Rory or the Doctor's Daughter from season 4 or a reboot on Romanov. I think Moffat has out-written himself and is starting borderline soap opera area of who is the baby daddy. People trust my Moffat, but after the bullshit that was Moriarty in Holmes, I begin to question his Midas Touch.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:37 a.m. CST

    @thenotoriousdrb

    by Cap'n Jack

    That could also fit in with eyepatch lady saying "No...she appears to be dreaming." Dreaming - Nightmare

  • May 1, 2011, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Small mini spoiler about the season finale

    by roadkill

    At a Dr Who convention in Belfast today Ian McNeice exclusively revealed that Winston Churchill will return for the series finale. Thats all he was allowed to tell us and that was all he did tell us. We'll be getting him drunk later so we'll try and get more info for the spoiler-addicts.

  • May 1, 2011, 11:48 a.m. CST

    More on the Nightmare Child and the Time War

    by TheNotoriousDRB

    If one looks at time in a linear fashion, then one instantly fails to recognize just how devastating the Last Great Time War actually was. We do know based on what has been told that the Nightmare Child was indeed a creation. The Silence are either responsible for the gestation or the protection of this Nightmare Child. Even though the Time War is locked, the events surrounding this war are evergreen. Because time is NOT linear. And while The Doctor is a Time Lord, he is not omnipresent. In fact, The Doctor did not enter the Time War until the latter portion of it. If Moffat is trying to bring things full circle so to speak, we may be witnessing some of the things antecedent to the Time War itself. It's obvious that the Silence were piloting a TARDIS, and they were doing it in the correct fashion with six pilots. Six stations, six pilots. They are related to Gallifrey, but unfamiliar to the Doctor...or are they? Davros claimed to have flown into the "jaws" of the Nightmare Child, but no meaning was provided. What could it be? Who knows? All that is known is that the last great act of the Last Great Time War was the Doctor's solution, the creation of "The Moment". Something that caused him to regenerate into the Ninth Doctor. Born in blood and battle.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Will Moff avoid having a big bad again ....

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    You can rely on one thing with Nu-Who .... rarely are we given any serious surprises or genuine full-on shocks ... Most years you can find info on how the series is going to pan out and this year seems no different. The voice in the Tardis seems to have been answered with predictable disappointment and if the web whispers are true then this years story arc yet again will shy away from involving a big bad in any serious way. Is this a good thing? .... Or is removing the epic nature of the RTD finales eventually going to hurt the show?

  • May 1, 2011, 12:34 p.m. CST

    thenotoriousdrb- oh to see that on screen would be something indeed.

    by sam jacksons wig

    The images it conjures in my mind are phenominal.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:34 p.m. CST

    Moffat seems more interested in time loops than epic finales

    by tangcameo

    The stories so far seem more interested in bootstrap paradoxes and time loops (the first Matt Smith finale, the Christmas episode, the minisode, and, apparently, this entire season).

  • May 1, 2011, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Epic Nature

    by Perigee

    The destruction of the entire universe last year was not "Epic"? The Doctor, shot and killed in the first ten minutes of Series 6 not a full-on shock? "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." I can't speak much beyond the post-Davidson years, but a "Big Bad" is a modern invention; so modern, it has to be considered an experiment more than a tradition. I don't feel like its vital, personally. And, as for full-on shocks or surprises, until the BBC can make a "perfect prison" to store their writers, scripts, and production crew in, you'll continue to Be Able to find spoilers on the Internet - if you are so inclined and motivated to. But - especially in this Docback - there are people who choose not to, and are taking the rollercoaster as it comes. That's why they're in here debating stuff that is old-hat solved (or believed solved) back in Gallifrey Base.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    I'd take THE BIG BANG over JOURNEY'S END any day of the week

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    It was far more satisfying on every single level. If Moff wants to keep playing around with time loops rather than "epic finales", then I'm with him all of the way.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:43 p.m. CST

    "Astonishing that no one remembers"

    by GINGE_MUPPET

    Great idea ... but like I said above far too radical for the show. Its almost a given that the childs origin and story will be the most obvious idea that we can think of. Clues in the show and web spoilers seem to confirm this.

  • May 1, 2011, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Don't get drunk and lose your wig, Sam!

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

  • May 1, 2011, 12:46 p.m. CST

    Ah - Thanks perigee

    by unfaithfullyyours

    So the imprisonment / arrest was a fake, top to bottom. Got it. (Thank you!) Also, I do have to say, for a time lord, that beard sure does grow fast! :)

  • You said,"they wrote a storyline that makes Americans look very bad. It just makes no sense. Why travel all the way over here to give us the finger, we already knew they didn't like us." What did you what them to do, lie? Rewrite history? As an american, I didn't see anything wrong with the story, again, maybe it's just a matter of opinion, how one sees the world around us? Yes, I know some in the Uk, and most of the rest of the world dislikes the US, hey, that's the way it is, there's nothing we can do about it. But, take away the sci-fi part of the story, what was wrong, negative about the US in the 2 parter?

  • May 1, 2011, 1:14 p.m. CST

    MAJOR DOCTOR WHO SPOILERS

    by berserkrl

    A casting list that shows which characters will return in which episodes this season:<p> http://aaeblog.com/2011/05/01/silent-runs-the-doc <p><p> A list of scenes from LAST season where the Silence appear to appear:<p> http://aaeblog.com/2011/05/01/silent-runs-the-doc-part-2

  • May 1, 2011, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Hate the US? Huh?

    by Perigee

    I must have missed that part - I gotta fine tune the tin foil hat, I guess. The US is gun happy and hair triggered? Yep - and, generally, most Americans seem pretty proud of it. John Wayne, Cowboy Diplomacy, If You're Not With Us, You're Against Us... And, if you look at it, Delaware's typically American solution to the Silent was what ultimately helped to solve the problem. Super-Patriotic? Less so now than in 1969, but it's still part of our way. Even I, ordinarily a cynic, got pulled into the fervor briefly after 9/11 until it became all "Freedom Fry" and ridiculous. Delaware - a man from 1969, gay and miscegenatist, was incredibly cool, and sci-fi's version of Felix Leiter; I'll be horribly disappointed when he proves a one-time character. If the Doctor needs a companion who REALLY has his back, he should have hauled him along as a regular. I saw no "hate" - not even any anger. Some loving ribbing, that's all.

  • May 1, 2011, 1:42 p.m. CST

    River song' Meetings

    by History101

    Lets assume 20 meetings. Now they do not have to be in exact reverse order. If that was the case, then why compare diaries? 909 doctor has not be keeping a diary that we know of. River’s 20. Library ( Her Death) 19. Derilium(Gives her the Sonic) Others Adventures? ??. Day of the Moon (Last Kiss) ??. Future Doctor’s Death – (She already knows Amy and Rory) Jim the Fish, Other adventures- These are also post meeting Amy and Rory ??. Byzantium( She says next/previous time is Pandorica) ??. Pandorica She kills an important man She learns to fly the Tardis She first meets the doctor Any revisions needed?

  • May 1, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    Uh oh - Unmarked Silent Encounter in "Astronaut..."

    by Perigee

    Rererere-watching... In the warehouse, just before they encounter the astronaut, just before she tells the doctor she's pregnant, Amy doubles up. And that happens immediately after an encounter, for women. I wonder if this is important...

  • And, I'm not "most Americans", but, Canton's solution to the memory loss of the Silent seemed like the best one and, I didn't hear the Doctor complaining about it.

  • May 1, 2011, 2:28 p.m. CST

    There is an extra TARDIS somewhere

    by Robert Louis Mungle

    When the 200 hundred year older doctor arrives and is then "killed" he does so in HIS TARDIS. The younger version arrives in his and then whisks Amy, Rory and River to 1969 in HIS TARDIS. Where did the older "dead" doctor leave his TARDIS?

  • May 1, 2011, 2:36 p.m. CST

    River song and Amy Pond.... What's in a name?

    by 8footTallGopher

    In season 5 ep 1. The Doctor refers to the young Amelia Pond's name as very lyrical. Lyrical.... Like a Song. And pond, as in a body of water. Also a River. It seems to me that River is Amy's daughter, and also the child that somehow has the abilities of a Time Lord. It also seems that she, either as a child or grown up was in the space suit and kills the doctor. And it is that act that gets her put in prison. The details, the how's and the why's are all yet to come. Th tragic love story of the doctor and river is really fascinating. A relationship across time in reverse. The first time the doctor kisses river is also the last time. And if this theory is right then when River meets the doctor is the day he dies, as the day Doctor meets River is the day she "dies".

  • May 1, 2011, 2:39 p.m. CST

    grandfather paradox theory

    by Dreamfasting

    I am really beginning to like the grandfather paradox theory ... somehow Amy getting pregnant causes a chain of events that prevents her from getting pregnant, this is creating a paradox and so the timeline is vibrating back and forth between two realities. It's consistent with the setup of having a timelord child who apparently shoots the Doctor.

  • May 1, 2011, 3:51 p.m. CST

    river song daughter

    by Beniffer

    no .. there wouldnt be the sexual tension

  • May 1, 2011, 4:36 p.m. CST

    Six Hundredth?

    by CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS

    Six Hundredth is the new First!

  • May 1, 2011, 5:14 p.m. CST

    The best talkback?

    by donkey_lasher

    Apart from our Dear Diox, who has become a part of the furniture, these talkbacks are possibly one of the most civilised I've seen.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:16 p.m. CST

    this is a damn fine Docback

    by Seph_J

    guys. Aside from those who post spoilers IN THE SUBJECT LINE ('candy ass monkey suit' is a cretin). Aside from that, it's been a very entertaining read. Nice one.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:18 p.m. CST

    Well, come on, we all saw the other TARDIS

    by HornOrSilk

    It was in the Lodger and in this episode, too. Can't that be the Doctor's TARDIS?

  • May 1, 2011, 5:31 p.m. CST

    The "They've been in Doctor Who" game

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    Does anyone else try to spot all the actors who have been in Doctor Who when they're watching other shows? Like with "Exile" tonight, starring John Simm. And then Olivia Colman turned up too. Yay, two of them! I find there's very few good shows on telly lately that doesn't feature at least one.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:31 p.m. CST

    8foottallgopher

    by McBegbie

    It's an interesting thought, each character's first meeting being the other's last. But whilst River holds Amy back when the astronaut first shoots the doctor she looks genuinly shocked when the regen is interrupted. Surely she'd remember the event, and why shoot at her younger self?

  • May 1, 2011, 5:40 p.m. CST

    Exile was good.

    by Seph_J

    Wasn't expecting much, but had me hooked throughout.

  • May 1, 2011, 5:55 p.m. CST

    oh and Purple Prole, don't forget Jim Broadbent...

    by Seph_J

    ...who actually played The Doctor....once.... very, briefly...

  • May 1, 2011, 5:57 p.m. CST

    No More Daleks

    by rbottoms

    I love the new Who. I couldn't stand the "stupid", from K-9 to the Daleks, the Cybermen and all the holdovers from 1964. I know they were endearing artifacts from British culture, but really how many times are you going to fight these guys only to find out that due to the blahblahbitythingy they survived to menace us once again. Moon was downright scary. The Doctor Rules. And River Song, my God what a woman. There has to be a feature film in the works.

  • May 1, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Haha seph_j

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I had forgot Broadbent was once the Doc. In an 'episode' written by the Moff no less.

  • May 1, 2011, 6:14 p.m. CST

    Infact, Broadbents character in

    by Seph_J

    Exile would be *one* way to play the doc I suppose. Although it looks like the Silents already got to him, poor bugger.

  • The good news, no Daleks this year and, the bad news, oh, wait, this is good news, too, the Cybermen return this year in 3, yes, 3 episodes. In case you're wondering, yes, the Cybermen are my favorite Who villiain, the original Mondas/Telos Cybermen, RTD's Cybermen, not so much.

  • May 1, 2011, 6:27 p.m. CST

    axcel1 SPOILER YOU FUCKING FUCK.

    by Seph_J

    I mean JESUS for FUCKS SAKE man.

  • May 1, 2011, 6:53 p.m. CST

    River and the Dr. kissing -

    by V'Shael

    I'm taking a break from trying to catch up on reading 200 posts, to say I think a lot of people are overthinking this scene. It's nothing to do with a second doctor, or events being out of sequence. River had been seeing (and snogging, apparently) The Doctor for a while. But she knew that somewhere in her future, would come a time when the Doctor and her were not THAT close. She just wasn't expecting it to arrive so soon. The Doctors first kiss with her, is clearly her last kiss with him. (Because of the way they are moving through each others lives.) When the Doctor admitted they hadn't done that before, she knew he was saying that in ALL of her future dealings with him, (which to him, had already happened) they would never kiss. So she had just had her last ever kiss with him.

  • Where do you think I read that, last week's Docback from another Who fan, who will remain nameless. To be honest, he made sound more rumor than fact, so, it's wishful thinking on my part. He had said more, but, like I said, rumor.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:23 p.m. CST

    Tennant is NOT coming back.

    by V'Shael

    There was a reference above to a Youtube posting allegedly showing Tennant on set. This is why Youtube is the last refuge of mouth breathing retards. The fucking clueless twat who posted that video, didn't know it was the director, Euros Lyn. It was pointed out in the comments section, and he STILL left the video up with that misleading title. Because he's a fucking brain donor. So Tennant fanboys... get over yourselves. David may do the 50th anniversary if you're very lucky. He may not. (Remember, Tom Baker didn't do the 5 Doctors anniversary show- his tenure was too recent and he didn't want to go back.)

  • May 1, 2011, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Amy and the Eyepatch woman.

    by V'Shael

    My thinking is that this scene in the childrens home, is not entirely as we've seen it. As an aside, someone mentioned the writing being too high on the wall for the girl? I thought it was supposed to be obvious that the Dr. Renfrew character was doing the writing. It was on his own WRIST as well. Anyway, to get back to the eyepatch woman... I think that what we saw in episode 2, was in fact events from a future episode, and not representative of what actually happened with Canton. If I'm right, I expect we'll see her again in future episodes, as there will be some point in the future where Amy revisits the events of the season in a dream or something, and that's what we're seeing here as forshadowing.

  • I'm all for positive portrayals of gay relationships in drama - which means, preferably, said relationship is noted and clearly accepted by the characters but is not overly commented on. Flagging up a gay relationship/interchange between characters with (metaphorical) neon lights, a big poster reading PRO-GAY MESSAGE and a jokey punchline is not positive. Sure Canton saying "Yes HE is" was funny - but it was also cheap and tacky, especially given Nixon's expression afterwards. If they'd just stayed with Canton's partner being black, Nixon dealing with it and "working something out" they might not have got a punchline - but they might have come up with something worth saying about the 60's society.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:44 p.m. CST

    Anybody want to buy a used Stargate?

    by DoctorTom

    For sale: one used Stargate. 3 previous series owners, has not performed well for the last 2 owners, suffers from "Star Trek Voyager" syndrome a.k.a. "trying-to-milk-a-cash-cow-long-after-its-expiration-date-itis". Refurbished recently to become known as Battlestargate Universica, side effects of which have been to become extremely po-faced stories and acting, delusions of grandeur even though scientific studies have determined that Lexx actually dealt with more serious issues than Battlestargate. Examination of scripts by Consumer Reports of scripts incorporated as a "functioning" part of the "new" Battlestargate were found to induce catalepsy in adults, and that the actual drama content in the average script was measured to be 57% of that in the average script for Jersey Shore. Due to delapidated nature of STargate due to years of creative neglect, movie potential based on series minimal, though years of resting and refurbishing as a "reboot" option may be a viable option. Asking price for the Stargate: $1.98. Sold as is. Buyer must arrange for own transportation of Stargate. All sales final.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:44 p.m. CST

    axcel1

    by Perigee

    I wasn't complaining about it; heck, I cut my teeth on the Cowboy Diplomacy of Captain Kirk, and when I saw "The Passion of the Christ," I was darkly thinking how personally satisfying it would be to pop in there with a fully armed extraction team. I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy. It's what we grew up with - sadly as much in reality as fantasy - and I accept that as part of our culture. And I don't mind getting gently jibed about it. And, as I HAD said, Delaware ultimately helped solve the Silents problem - no sarcasm, and it's kind of cool they let the token American play a hand in this story's solution - in "typically American" fashion. ~Grin~ Sometimes, Cowboy Diplomacy is best. I Really Would like to see him as a regular part of the Whoniverse.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:47 p.m. CST

    axcel, until it happens IN an episode, it is a SPOILER

    by Seph_J

    regardless of how many other cretins have decided to ruin it for us in previous docbacks. And no mate, I won't chill because you just posted a spoiler without a spoiler warning. It's not cool.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:47 p.m. CST

    Ug, I freakin hate River Song

    by Yamato

    I can't watch ep's with River Song in them, she bugs the hell out of me.

  • May 1, 2011, 7:52 p.m. CST

    Comments on the Silents

    by DoctorTom

    There was the speculation earlier that the Silents came to Earth through the cracks and set up shop. This isn't necessarily so. Wouldn't it be just as likely that the Silents were here from the beginning, and the cracks came about from their work/experimentation after they were kicked off of Earth? The actions that were taken in 1969 might have only ensured that the Silents were forced out into space, whereupon they became known to the other races while the Silents invaded them. <br> Some questions: <br> Last season, when the Doctor asked why nobody remembered the Cybermen, was Moffat actually indicating the cracks, or setting up something else with the Silents there? Possible posthypnotic suggestion to people to forget it?<br> The spacesuit - why would a spacesuit be suitable when an old time diving suit wouldn't? Is it the great big reflective surface on the helmet, good for hiding the Silents so that they can interact with "people" without triggering the "forget" function? Possibly related to them going for space travel? <br> So, if the cracks were actually pulling events and things in, what has happened to the things pulled into the cracks? Even though they don't exist in the "real" world, do they still exist in the place that the cracks took them, possibly as a part of some collection?

  • May 1, 2011, 7:59 p.m. CST

    Welcome to America ;-)

    by Corwin_X2

    When it clicked that Canton was Mark Sheppard - the guy who played Badger in Firefly - I knew he was going to totally own every scene they put him in. Haven't seen anything else he's done but he really is a joy to watch in both shows. Favourite lines from this episode: Canton: Are you armed? Silent: [pontificates] ... we have no need of weapons! Canton: Yeah ... [draws pistol and rapid-fires three rounds into Silent] ... welcome to America.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Canton, Indiana, and Solo

    by Perigee

    These guys should get together someday. ~LOL~ Very reminiscent of Will Smith's ID4 line. Loved it.

  • May 1, 2011, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Well, now that episode 2 is finished...

    by Mister Vertue

    I'm more confused than ever. It's fun to be confused!

  • May 1, 2011, 10:23 p.m. CST

    Bin Laden Dead!

    by captain_kirk

    Seems that during video feed of the shuttle launch, the Doctor allowed a broadcast of Osama telling a gay ex-FBI agent that we should just kill him.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:34 p.m. CST

    Osama has been Welcomed To America...

    by Perigee

    ... Like I said; I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy. XXOO to the Unknown Modern Delaware.

  • May 1, 2011, 10:45 p.m. CST

    12 year old Girl - 6 year old boy - Loved It!

    by WASPFAN

    In US - my kids loved it - had a little explaining to do - don't underestimate kids!!!

  • May 1, 2011, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Welcome To America Osama Bin Laden

    by WASPFAN

  • May 1, 2011, 11:12 p.m. CST

    WOW

    by bauerpowerhour24

    Hold on the bar has been set high for this season only. how long will they drag out the doctor dieing

  • May 1, 2011, 11:17 p.m. CST

    River deep, mountain high motherfucker

    by Roger Moon

    "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02 "I am truly not that concerned about him." - G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts, 3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

  • May 1, 2011, 11:27 p.m. CST

    Review Roundup

    by timesfool

    More reviews from around the web, most are pretty spoilery: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2011/apr/30/doctor-who-day-of-the-moon http://cathoderaytube.blogspot.com/2011/05/doctor-who-series-6-day-of-moon-review.html http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/05/02/review-of-doctor-who-day-of-the-moon/ http://dijeratic.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/doctor-who-the-non-review/ http://www.denofgeek.com/television/869325/doctor_who_series_6_episode_2_review_day_of_the_moon.html http://m0vie.wordpress.com/2011/04/30/doctor-who-day-of-the-moon-review/

  • May 1, 2011, 11:31 p.m. CST

    Easily one of the best yet!

    by sunspot_mike

    I love River and that was the best shootout we've had on Who in years (since Planet of the Ood easily.) Mark Sheppard was awesome, the Nixon performance wasn't just a corny impersonation (and it was a pretty balanced view of him), and The Silence were the scariest monsters we've seen in forever. I was actually upset for Rory when he was listening to Amy's "man that fell out of the sky" rant but I figured they weren't going to go in that direction (they covered it last season and it makes Amy totally unlikable if she leads Rory on.) I've been watching this show for over two decades (Milwaukee Public Television FTW) and I think the writing, production quality, humor and monsters are the most fun and exciting we've ever had. Matt Smith is my favorite since Tom Baker (although I did think David Tennant was pretty awesome.) There was very little forced cheesiness (well, I would've left out where River shoots the Silent that's behind her without turning around, I thought that made them a little "too" easy to kill, but that's just a niggle.) Do you guys remember the Slitheen and cringing every time they flatulated? Or the aliens made of fat? Cat nurses? C'mon, this stuff is on a different level. When they fire on all levels like they did with this two-parter, I get as excited about it as I did when I was a kid (actually more excited because I think these episodes are better.) I literally cannot wait for new episodes to come out. It feels like they're pulling out all the stops, to give us a twisty fun story that really uses the time travel, I love that the Doctor really used the TARDIS to get around in the last episode, he's finally treating his magic box the way you'd expect a guy with a time machine to do, travel around within the episode to different places and different times to get stuff done (maybe that's because River is such a better pilot that they can actually go somewhere with precision. In the old series, I felt like the TARDIS spent more time being broke than functioning correctly.) The only disappointment I've had since Smith started was that "The Big Bang" felt a little too magical (ontological paradox with the sonic screwdriver and Amy "remembering" the universe back together - but that "something blue" line at her wedding was so awesome it might have made up for it.) But I don't know why people are hating on River Song- "Silence in the Library", "Flesh and Stone", "Pandorica Opens" are some of my favorite episodes of all time and Alex Kingston is awesome. She plays it right, I'm glad they didn't get Kate Winslet (she still feels too young to be the Doctor's wife and I wouldn't buy her as an archaeologist. Kingston being a little older works because she looks experienced. Would a young girl be really a match for The Doctor? I know Rose was special because of the point in his life that he met her after The Time War but Kingston feels like a much more proper match... and she's hot.) Anyway, long story short, Doctor Who has always been my favorite show, but now I'm seeing it catch on with all of my friends finally coming around to it as well. Doctor Who, like bow ties, Stetsons, and fezzes, is cool, even here in America. And I think the reason it's catching on is because Matt Smith and The Grand Moff have brought their A-game. I love it!

  • May 1, 2011, 11:49 p.m. CST

    *Spoilers* Finally, got to see DOTM

    by JillianneSix

    Fuck Suddenlink. They've screwed up my cable, so Doctor Who didn't record on my DVR, hence no Doctor Who in America Special. If anyone has a link, please let me know. That being said... I have been out of town, went to the Arcade Fire show, and tried to download it at the hotel, and of course, couldn't. So I had to wait to come home and discover this crap. Anyway, I really enjoyed the episode, but I still loathe River Song. Just...ugh. So the kid is definitely Amy's. We really only resolved one issue, which will lead us through the rest of the season, I take. (Sorry, I am distracted while writing this! Osama bin Laden is dead! Fuck YEAH!) At least, Moffatt has upped his game. This kind of storytelling is really intriguing for me. Everything clicked, and now I really want to watch it back to back. Also, thanks to everyone who is contributing to the DocBack thread! It is funny and intelligent discourse (for the most part). I'm definitely trying to be civil about certain...posts. Seriously, we have a great fandom:)

  • May 1, 2011, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Schroedinger's Baby (SPOILERS)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Amy's baby is clearly in a quantum superposition of states. This is reminiscent of Schoedinger's famous gedankenexperiment regarding his cat. You put the cat in an impenetrable box with a deadly device that will be triggered if a Geiger counter detects the decay of a radioactive substance. According to the math, the cat is neither alive nor dead, but in some very weird combination of states. Obviously the Tardis is such a box. All the occupants are in a radically expanded quantum superposition which is how they're able to travel anywhere/when. Of course it requires enormous energies to make this possible - hence the eye of harmony, etc. We may safely assume that the Rassilon Imprimatur, the genetic sequence that makes a time lord a time lord, is likewise in a weird superposition. And it is therefore quite likely that Amy's baby a.k.a. River Song isn't just a Time Lord. She is likely the mother of the original 3 time lords - Omega, Rassilon and The Other [not his real name]. And, yes, this would be rather incestuous, since The Dr was recognised by The Other's grand-daughter Susan as a Loom-grown reincarnation of The Other. What's the difference between a Loom and a Tardis?

  • May 2, 2011, 1:47 a.m. CST

    Valeyard is coming!

    by LostCause

    From what I've read about Valeyard, I'd like to pose a theory. River Song is Valeyard. "Distilled from the doctor between his 12th and final regeneration"<BR> He died in TIA and didn't regenerate thus his final regeneration.<BR> River song kills "the greatest man she's known" <BR> In Flesh and Stone the Bishop says that if the Doctor knew who river was, he'd never help them. And also said she is not to be trusted. <BR> Anyway,I'mm off to watch the dreamlord episode where AMY WAS PREGNANT, and see if there are any other clues there, not that it was written by Moffat, but he may have slid some gems in there. <BR> Also either Moffat doesn't have much imagination and is using the Silence and the Silents as two different things in this season and last because he likes the word, or it all ties back in with itself and the overall story arc. <br>

  • May 2, 2011, 1:50 a.m. CST

    oh, yeah

    by LostCause

    Or the little girl is valeyard. <BR> But I also think the Kano Lady is something to do with it also,it was just so out of place. I was wondering if that bit had something to do with ROry saying that bit about his memories and how its like a door he can open and close, and maybe someone was doing that with Amy's memories.

  • May 2, 2011, 2:37 a.m. CST

    The line in the clip from last week, was missing.

    by V'Shael

    Remember the one where people couldn't make out The Silent was saying "This planet is ours.... DOK-TOR" That didn't happen in the episode. I wonder what that's about.

  • May 2, 2011, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Seems that during video feed of the shuttle launch

    by alexander

    The Doctor a allowed a broadcast of a taped faked moon landing telling a gay ex-FBI agent that we should kill all our lying coning deceiving estate agents and perhaps a few landlords here in the present...postman! erased from memory/existence for Open Range thanks God! Spread the message tally ho.

  • May 2, 2011, 3:30 a.m. CST

    If River Song is Valeyard

    by alexander

    how does sacrificing herself in 'Silence in The Library' work? Also, I believe the question of the most feared being in the Galaxy was already obviously answered: it was the Doctor.

  • May 2, 2011, 3:37 a.m. CST

    The little Girl is River or Amy

    by alexander

  • May 2, 2011, 4:52 a.m. CST

    bauerpowerhour24- all the way to the very end I am afraid.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Can't imagine they will give the big reveal until the very end.

  • May 2, 2011, 5:01 a.m. CST

    or she in fact just the daughter of Amy and...?

    by alexander

  • May 2, 2011, 5:01 a.m. CST

    my moneys on River

    by alexander

  • I mean this guys, you are about to enter spoiler heavy territory here. Well, okay if you insist: The eye-patched woman is played by Frances Barber who is also appearing in Episodes Seven and Eight as "Madame Korvarian." She also appears in Episode Three. So it looks like she’s might be this years “Amy’s Crack”, appearing randomly throughout the first few episodes until she takes centre stage in the mid-series two-parter. We do know that Amy kills her in an aborted time-line. How? A scene filmed bewteen River and Amy for later in the series goes as thus: River Song appears in camouflage gear, and Amy and River cross check their diaries. River says she’s just climbed out of the Byzantium, "you were so young, didn’t have a clue who I was", she says to Amy. (confirmation of timey-wimey wibbly wobbly inter series conotations I and others have already speculated on.) She asks Amy where she is in the timeline, and she says the Doctor is dead and that she’s sad. Not just because of that, because she killed Madame Kovarian. River says it’s fine, it was in an aborted time-line, so never happened. But it still happened for Amy, she remembers it. Amy longs to see her Doctor again, but she can’t, he’s dead. River then says "Oh mother, he isn’t dead, don’t you want to know what he whispered in my ear?". Amy assumes it was his name. River says no it wasn’t his name. Amy says that the Doctor said he was about to whisper his name to River, but he clearly didn’t. He whispered something to stop the astronaut killing him. River reminds Amy about rule number one. The Doctor lies. So do I, she says. River says her life is one giant spoiler. She’s had to keep it from Amy that she’s her daughter, and keep secret about the astronaut: she knew all along it was going to shoot the Doctor. So Amy pushes her to say what the Doctor whispered in her ear before he went off to America to get shot. River grins and says "that man, always thinking so far ahead". So now we know that River already knew about the Astronaut when she shot at it, and that's why she held everyone back. Then of course there’s the question of who is the little girl and how/why is she regenerating. Well the most obvious answer is that she’s River Song. I’m not claiming that’s the right answer, just saying that it’s the most obvious and logical. We already know that Amy is River Song’s mother. How? Well, read above!!! Something else that might be worth noting is that Day of the Moon takes place three months after The Impossible Astronaut and the little girl regenerates a further six months later, which adds up to nine months, the typical length of a pregnancy. Just throwing that one in there. And raising more questions than answered- regarding the duality of the Doc and the red/blue tie theory: How is it that The Doctor’s sonic screwdriver can “kill” a silent, isn’t it supposed to be non-lethal? And is it just me or is it a bit out of character for The Doctor to turn the entire human race in to murderers using post-hypnotic suggestion? Could this lead to what has alredy been theorised? That the Doc is the big bad in control of the arse faced aliens, and tht he is INDEED THE SILENCE (in the library???) As per all SJW spoilers, start shaking that salt container and keeping a few pinches to one side.

  • May 2, 2011, 5:26 a.m. CST

    Can someone help me

    by Extr3m1st

    Can one of you guys give me a quick rundown on where we are right now with this show. I love DR Who but I am a bit lost. The show is awesome but the speed at which they talk and me missing some conversation and a few episodes has rendered me lost a bit. Please explain the ongoing plot that travels through these episodes in some detail or point me to somewhere that has this explained. Thanks a lot in advance.

  • Monsters: Cybermen; the Silents Steven Moffat has mentioned that Episodes 12 and 13 are separate, distinct stories. "Episodes 12 and 13 are linked in certain ways, so it’s not like one completely ignores the other." There will be at least one scene that was filmed previously in Utah in this final episode, although what it is is being kept very secret. A recent synopsis for the episode goes as thus: The Silence, the unseen enemy who blew up his TARDIS last year, have laid deeper plans and set the deadliest trap of all – one that has been ticking away in the Doctor’s life for longer than anyone knows.” Newlyweds Amy and Rory are caught up in a century-spanning scheme, and somewhere out there, in a storm-lashed prison, River Song is getting ready to tell the Doctor something that will change his life for ever. "By Lake Silencio, on the Plain of Sighs, a story will begin and end. A good man is going to die [and] an impossible life will begin. “Our heroes will set out on the long road to the deadliest secret in the universe, and when it stares you in the face, you might just discover you’ve known about it all along.” Excited yet? I fucking know that I am!!!!!!!

  • May 2, 2011, 5:42 a.m. CST

    Synopsis for "A good man goes to war" SPOILERS.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Want to find the most dangerous place in the universe? Easy. Harm a hair on Amy’s head and just wait. But as the last of the Time Lords and the Lone Centurion blaze across galaxies to save the woman in both their lives, history is unfolding. In her cell, in Stormcage, River Song knows the time has come at last. She has a secret, and this is the day she tells it. The battle of Demons Run has begun. And the Doctor’s darkest hour is now. From the Series 6 Part 1 Box Set: "And waiting for them, at the end of all this, is the battle of Demon’s Run, and the Doctor’s darkest hour. Can even the truth about River Song save the Time Lord’s soul?" Sounds like River may possibly save the Doctor from himself. Oh fucking yes. 9that part wasn't on there, that was mine!!)

  • May 2, 2011, 5:46 a.m. CST

    Episode 10 title revealed: SPOILERS.

    by sam jacksons wig

    The Green Anchor. The episode contains "the Handbots" and a "time glass." There’s a "red waterfall." Although what the fuck this has to do with anything I don't know.

  • May 2, 2011, 6:33 a.m. CST

    Thank you for the spoiler warnings, SJW

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I was able to not read any of that. It's good that it's there for those who want it, but I'm staying unspoiled for now.

  • In that I stated that River was Amys child. Now go back to the episode the 11th Hour, and the poiny where Amy asks the Doc "Why me?" he then has a knowing look on his face and says "Why not?" Are we now to believe that the Tardis knowingly took him to Amy Pond in order for all of the events to unfold as they have? Or that THAT Doctor was the one from 200 years in the future?

  • May 2, 2011, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Spoiling Sam's spoilers with More SPOILERS

    by veteran_of_mu

    Nah, I just like typing the word Spoilers. Okay, here's something. A good man goes to war - obviously that's Rory fighting the Cybermen. River kills the good man Rory, the best man she ever knew. As for who runs Stormcage ... have you never heard of a character called "the oncoming storm"?

  • May 2, 2011, 8:23 a.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig, 11th hour spoiler

    by Phil Lamarre

    He picks amy because he knows the cracks in time have something to do with her. It can't be the 200 year older Doc because when would they have made the switch back to the younger on? And if they did he would want to know what's going on

  • May 2, 2011, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Hmmmm....

    by dj_bollocks

    Just had a thought... Both Amy and River complained of stomach pains when they say The Silents... River and The Doctor had the Doctor's first kiss... and River's last kiss... which means that they possibly get jiggy with it in the Doctor's (our) future and River's past... River's pregnant, it's her child, and the picture with Amy holding the child is because she looks after it... Amy's pregnancy is just a red herring...

  • May 2, 2011, 8:34 a.m. CST

    dj_bollocks- SPOILERS to your post......

    by sam jacksons wig

    Amys pregnancy is not a red herring. It has been confirmed that she is the mother of River Song (or so River has led her to believe later in the series). The silents also say to Amy in ep 2 that they bestow great honour upon her as she would bring forth "the silence." What can we deduce from that? Does it have something to do with the cracks in time? I would theorise not. I do however believe that it has somethin to do with a child she is carrying. But one of the biggest suprises of all? There are "twin babies" in this series. Now THAT is very fucking interesting. And the biggest question is WHO is the father?

  • www.bbc.co.uk/drwho

  • May 2, 2011, 8:54 a.m. CST

    Ep 3 Curse of the Black Spot Spoilers.

    by sam jacksons wig

    Lily Cole as Siren? We ALL know that, but here is some info that you may or may n ot have heard. • The pirates fight with sticks instead of swords because blood is what draws the Siren. • "One drop and she will rise out of the ocean!" • Amy appears to cut/nick a pirate dressed in black, drawing blood … • … who later appears to be entranced by the Siren, and possibly meets a grisly end by it. • Amy drops her sword and appears to accidentally wound Rory, probably drawing his blood in the process. • When the black pirate meets his end, Rory is clearly under the influence of the Siren as well, and appears to sporadically be so for the remainder of the episode. (hence Rory having the black spot.) • No one else appears to be affected.

  • May 2, 2011, 9:17 a.m. CST

    Spoileriffic

    by donkey_lasher

    River is indeed the daughter of Amy, and the child we see who regenerates, is her daughter and The Doctors. Amy and Rory become grandparents. It makes me think of the Red Dwarf story when Lister discovers he has twins in the future.

  • May 2, 2011, 9:31 a.m. CST

    I'm treading carefully now

    by The Handsome 12th Doctor

    I haven't read any of it but I can see a lot of info seems to be known. And that the big questions are set to be answered. I only have one thing I'd like to know. Do we find out where you get the special straws from?

  • May 2, 2011, 10:05 a.m. CST

    All the idiots bleating about reading spoliers.

    by Smashing

    Fuck off a talkback about the bloody show, there are always gonna be spoilers, I understand reading one may be upsetting but the sheer vitriol and anger your spewing about it is literally out of whack with what it is, a fucking TV show, please don't use your righteous anger to hit others over the head with it. It's tres working class.

  • May 2, 2011, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Oo moody me.

    by Smashing

    I'm ill ignore me, I also just accidently read a spoiler!

  • May 2, 2011, 10:20 a.m. CST

    Oo moody me.

    by Smashing

    I'm ill ignore me, I also just accidently read a spoiler!

  • May 2, 2011, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Explanation???

    by the_greek

    The astronaut suit was meant to keep the little girl alive, and trapped it said. If she is a timelord (for whatever reason, whosever kid, etc.), then they would need to keep her alive to pilot the alternate Tardis a la The Lodger. However, without the suit, she was dying... Why? Since this happened in 1969, if the Silence was then gone, or hiding, the Tardis they had would have been looking for a new pilot - hence what happened with Craig, etc. in The Lodger. Where did they find this girl? Is this second Tardis a real Tardis, or something they were able to replicate (the astronaut suit was comprised of tech from many species, River said). If so, have the Silence been on Gallifrey? No one would have remembered if they did... I wonder just how big of a baddie they will become. If they are all over the universe, and have been for millennia - there is no telling what will be unravelled by the Grand Moff in future episodes. Thoughts??????

  • May 2, 2011, 11 a.m. CST

    are all these spoliers official?

    by alexander

    Meaning, did they get leaked through official sources? I just accidentally read one! Choosing to take it with a grain of salt.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:01 p.m. CST

    The Once and Future Doctor

    by JPKk

    Enjoying most of the talk. You young guys ..... language please. Now consider the British symbolism in the opening episode. Assuming the astronaut is the girl/lady, then what we have is the Lady of the Lake. The scene is playing out a combination of Arthur's death by his child and Arthur's return to Avalon. Arthur and the Doctor will return. Avalon and the Tardis always sends/takes you where you need to be, not where you want to go.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:08 p.m. CST

    So... i liked this episode...

    by alexander

    the direction and production design again was mostly great, and the orphanage scene stood alot, in particular for me as it felt like it took a lot from (and subsequently could even quite possibly be nods to) 'Psyconauts' & 'Max Payne 2' in a really nice way. Like someone on a forum elsewhere was saying, its starting to have a 'City of Lost Children' feel about the show with that specific moment/scene and the silence in general now, as well as this China Melville short story I would rather not spoil. Rory continues to be brilliant in the more subtle moments... the big gun fight had technically amazing production design, but it felt a bit off or didn't quite work somehow how Moffat, or maybe Haynes cut it with the clever banter in there... just a small point of contention (Rory holding his eyes on River around all the choas and rousing music was the cherry on top of a notch too much cheese for me)... although it really reinforces just how special River Song is if its not just a huge conceit of reality for the action/fun sake, i mean... it pretty much appears shes like Kato from the new Green Hornet movie only with a gun. The revelations were kind of satisfying plot wise, enough to know more of the Silence's agenda (but not whether its truly as bad for the human race or what the repercussions of their existence and ultimate intentions are in the bigger picture) and that River is most likely the astonaut if not Amy herself and the other the mother or vice versa... ... it would be a real big shocker that wouldn't make too much sense to me relative to the other basic theory at this point if they were in fact one and the same person, Amelia representing the young girl up till now before finding herself as a timelord/lady into River, because the big question mark of the pregnancy would hang. Like the other one: that River is just River, an amazing human companion to The Dr Timelord, and Rory a ... amazing in his own way human companion to a Lady Timelord, the VERY last survived from the time/war locks shenanigans... Holding on less and less despite Rivers moment and final dialogue at The End with the Doctor which would make it so cool if it were the case that her Rani-esque self did not infact have diabolical adventures and a romance with The Valeyard consruct emerged in him (and this could be part of what the silence are trying to make him forget also for whatever reason) and River underneath it all is pinning for this Doctor to 'come back' from his future to her from his past where he is currently at least, whether she planned for this or not... and very final River is that who after everything gets turned around in the end by the real nature/definition of the doctor before sacrificing herself... or something along these lines...seems a bit silly now, in light of everything that's happened since up till now, the idea. Back to the episode sorry: My main gripe with it, is the distinct impression of a serious lack of any real nourishing character development,,, maybe its being kept at bay still for the episode 6 we've been told is the absolute shocker, and i know Dr Who is Dr Who... but i was a bit disappointed with an absence of getting to know any of these characters any better than before hand... Amys explanation of the pregnancy Rory overhears seemed pretty much like a given to the audience, more like it was needed in order to help Reinforce her bond with Rory within the events unfolding and their relationship with the Doctor post wedding/pregnancy... which was nice, but i felt just ever so slightly cock teased by allowing my self to expect some juicy character developments or reveals-studies If people could give big warnings to their Spoiler posts like SJW that would be awesome thanks, just glad what i read is what a lot of us have theorised is likely the case so far anyway... although that makes me wonder if its legitimate!

  • May 2, 2011, 12:09 p.m. CST

    the orphanage scene stood out alot, sorry

    by alexander

    damn these monkey-bastard hands, as Dr. Lucien Sanchez would say.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:16 p.m. CST

    The female timelord/lady is the lady of the lake?

    by alexander

  • May 2, 2011, 12:17 p.m. CST

    *assuming she's a timelord/lady*

    by alexander

  • I'm genuinely curious;/fascinated; was supposed to be working on or developing a mythological show about Avalon myself once, if only for myself at the beginning and end of it all. This guy wanted to make a Goth show about how everyone in Glastonbury or all known mythological creatures are in fact Vampires: I had other ideas or plans for that show.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST

    Time Lady of the Lake

    by JPKk

    It could be an intentional symbol. Moffat does have an interest in equating the Doctor narrative with fairy tales. That is just a hop and a skip away from faerie and folk-lore. It may just be the British cultural imagery at play. Then again it could be just me, the rambling old English teacher.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Time Lady of the Lake

    by JPKk

    It could be an intentional symbol. Moffat does have an interest in equating the Doctor narrative with fairy tales. That is just a hop and a skip away from faerie and folk-lore. It may just be the British cultural imagery at play. Then again it could be just me, the rambling old English teacher.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Time Lady of the Lake

    by JPKk

    It could be an intentional symbol. Moffat does have an interest in equating the Doctor narrative with fairy tales. That is just a hop and a skip away from faerie and folk-lore. It may just be the British cultural imagery at play. Then again it could be just me, the rambling old English teacher.

  • May 2, 2011, 12:40 p.m. CST

    Sorry, Computer caught in timeloop

    by JPKk

    Talkback page kept reloading, very strange. About the on and off Schoedinger baby. River and Amy both had tummy trouble. Are they both pregnant at the same time or is the quantum fetus jumping from one womb to another. The womb is bigger on the inside than the ......

  • could it be they are in fact then one and the same person but from separate time streams/eventualities in relation to the cracks and the event/reality collapse and whatnot?

  • could it be they are in fact then one and the same person but from separate time streams/eventualities in relation to the cracks and the event/reality collapse and whatnot?

  • That's the three basic possibilities for me listed now then that seems most likely. The fourth and most unlikey, is The River as Rani/eque and Future Doctor-Valeyard as a diabolical tuned good natured in the end romance for both

  • That's the three basic possibilities for me listed now then that seems most likely. The fourth and most unlikey, is The River as Rani/eque and Future Doctor-Valeyard as a diabolical tuned good natured in the end romance for both

  • May 2, 2011, 12:55 p.m. CST

    tuned? turned

    by alexander

  • May 2, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Time Lady with child

    by JPKk

    1. Good title for a painting/sculpture - with angels perhaps ? 2. Consider the names: River & Pond. Time is a river, always changing. Pond is tranquil, unchanging ....? Yet multiple of Amy(s) ? 3. if there is more than one girl, what do we name her ? If she regenerates - River Phoenix Phoenix Pond Katherine (Kat) Schrodinger

  • However, I always ask others to use their own deductions as to what they wish to believe. With regards to spoilers, I will always post a huge spoiler warning in the subject box and leave it up to others if they decide to look. We are (mostly) all adults here and as such need to accept the consequences of reading spoiler-ish information.

  • May 2, 2011, 2:53 p.m. CST

    the_greek - explanation? SPOILERS.

    by sam jacksons wig

    It is being theorised (as no one really knows) tat they needed to keep the child in the suit as the air was toxic for her. Her release from the suit caused her inevitable death and eventual regeneration. I have issue with that theory as she was walking around outside the suit for at least 6 months, so unless it was poisioning her slowly..... the coughing and spluttering may represent that, who knows. As for the silence, they WILL be back, and are being controlled by something else which is being pegged as alot worse than they are. Theory? The Valeyard or the Omega seem to be the 2 biggies at the moment; however the Cybermen are back for at least 3 episodes this season, and we will have a return of the alien alliance, which we are presuming are under the control of the silence and its master.

  • "As for the Valeyard, what we're told is not that he appears between the 12th and 13th incarnation, but between the 12th and 13th regeneration. Dr 10 regenerated into himself in the episode "Journey's End". Which means Dr 11 is indeed the 12th regeneration, and therefore the Valeyard is indeed on the cards for Dr Red/Dreamlord. As for the death of Dr Red, I think it's plain the little girl is River, and that when River finds out that Dr Red isn't Dr Blue she jumps back into her old spacesuit and blows him away. After all we know it can't be Dr Blue in the spacesuit because Dr Blue can be relied on not to use guns"

  • Thank you for your post above, I totally agree with you.

  • Only the silence, and their means intentions schemes end still largely unknown? That would kind of make sense all round if you think about it. There that formalises 3 basic theories while including the fourth of River-ani/Valeyard!

  • May 2, 2011, 4:21 p.m. CST

    the real deal cocksuckers, is what i meant sorry

    by alexander

  • May 2, 2011, 4:52 p.m. CST

    In my opinion, anyone's theory which has

    by V'Shael

    The Rani, The Valyard, an anti-Valyard, or some significance to Red and Blue bow-ties.... is smoking some serious weed or something. I just can't take that stuff seriously.

  • May 2, 2011, 6:08 p.m. CST

    @V'Shael

    by veteran_of_mu

    Comes down to how you interpret the scene at the end of Amy's Choice where Dr Red's reflection was the dream lord. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xddsyz_doctor-who-amy-s-choice-part-13-14_shortfilms http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xddsyz_doctor-who-amy-s-choice-part-14-14_shortfilms When I first watched that I thought, hey, the Dr still has some demons, spooky twist, okay. But then I watched the immediately preceding scene where the Dr declares the cold star isn't real because "Because I Know Who He Is!". Immediate segue to "A spec of psychic pollen from the candle meadows of Karass Don Slava, made us all dream, nothing to worry about". Non-sequitur. Even Amy and Rory doubt the double-talk. Dr Red is certainly still the dream lord. The rest of it ... I certainly have no privileged information.

  • The Rani stuff is mostly fun speculation based on my obvious desires V'shael. Oh, and The Doctor is 'anti-Valyard'. If you were an authority on Dr Whos plots and theories or anything, you would know that, but maybe you've just been smoking some serious weed or something,

  • A short prequel to the next episode, "The Curse of the Black Spot" and 2 trailers are at www.syfy.com So, anyone else think pirates don't say, "yo ho ho"?

  • May 2, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Lodger Little girl = Astronaut Girl?

    by Perigee

    Has anybody done a voice check against these two? I mean, here we have two little girls asking people for help, and leading to that Silent's TARDIS deally. Also, an admission of Ubergeekdom... I was watching The Lodger on my ipod on the train ride home tonight, and when Craig went upstairs the first time, the door opened a crack, and you could see something headlike, fleshy and oblong behind it. Unfortunately, it was only about a quarter-inch tall on my screen. Has anybody taken a look at that figure since we got a look at the Silents?

  • May 2, 2011, 6:36 p.m. CST

    Nevermind.

    by Perigee

    Just watched the bits in full size. Phooey on me.

  • May 2, 2011, 6:44 p.m. CST

    regardless V'shael, i can't take your comment seriously

    by alexander

  • May 2, 2011, 6:47 p.m. CST

    Phooey on me meaning no dice i guess perigree

    by alexander

    haven't voice checked those two, but they certainly look like the same person

  • May 2, 2011, 6:57 p.m. CST

    3 degrees of Bacon Kelvin for this week/next week

    by alexander

    > The one eyed lady in the orphanage peeking through the hatch, or rather the special effect 'style used for her, was very reminiscent of those used mostly/heavily in 'Mirrormask' > Mirromask directed by Dave Mckean, co-artist to writer of movie and comic/graphic Novel Neil Gaiman > Neil Gaiman, awesome comicbook/literature writer of Mirromask, Sandman, and Neverwhere (Neverwhere tv series also starring Paterson Joseph - as the Marquee, a suitably Doctor-esque character - who many fans have cited before as a favourite for playing The Doctor, Neverwhere the show that got screwed by not being able to afford an essential filmic conversion at the end based on how was shot with said conversion in mind) writes next weeks episode, hooray! etc. Its a very weak link i know, but I love Niel Gaiman, so am looking forward to next week a lot

  • May 3, 2011, 6:06 a.m. CST

    i was on the bbc website...

    by emeraldboy

    and briefly went to the monsters section of the site listed there are drahvins and if you select it says that the last time they are mentioned is the pandorica opens and i did you are then brought a clip where river song says here comes trouble.... and after reading drahvins character description, i think they maybe this series big bad. moffat did say that he was going to bring back an old villain with a new spin......

  • The Lodger girl has a British accent, and the Astronaut girl, has a very different voice with an Yank accent. It was a great thought though... Oh and any theories that involve the Rani, Omega, Rassilon, the Valeyard, the Anti-Valeyard, Romana I or II, or similar characters from past Who-lore I will no longer bother to read. It's NOT any of them. I'll bet my Adipose Baby on it. It's all going to be self contained within series 4 to series 6. Although I was gravely dissapointed to hear the voice in the TARDIS was that of the silence. That did sort of bum me out. P.S. - alan_grant_lives how did you know I liked bacon so much?

  • May 3, 2011, 12:59 p.m. CST

    kelvington it must have been subconcious

    by alexander

    - segway: wait, they aren't the same person!? oh, because i just assumed they were - i was trying to be clever in an annoying probably unfunny way and come up with the appropriate term for things that exist rather than people/names, with half the connections, and so came up with that. Now that you mention it, it all makes sense where I pulled that from! ... so... they are NOT one and the same person then? Damn. Missed that the 3rd time round.

  • May 3, 2011, 1 p.m. CST

    Time line and the Valeyard Problem

    by JPKk

    Here is a time line of River Song and Dr. meetings that someone posted http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2011/05/keo7f.jpg Valeyard Problem - If the time war locked the Timelords Gallifrey and the Dr. can not return, then how did the Valeyard show up to cause problems earlier on In The Trial of a Time Lord ?

  • May 3, 2011, 1:11 p.m. CST

    oh, for the record though Docbackers/Whovians

    by alexander

    I will NOT be giving up my Baleyard theories, nor my Rani fantasies for her and The Doctor if I had it my way on Who, so sorry people are probably going to have to read (or just skip) more on those in the near future most likely, until Moffat gives us some more/serious character developments past the great subtle ones with Rory dammit! I recognise that as more subjective rather than objective criticism, at least from what I gauge from the feedback so far. River for Rani! Go back watch Time and the Rani, it all makes sense: she played dress up and villain, but from the beginning was just doing it for kinky twisted role play sex-pest reasons of attraction, what with being the kinky twisted bitch she is... but in the end couldn't get enough of the good Doctor!... Or The Valeyard who she met later on in the Doctors future and fell for, and works with what she can here in the present, diabolical seductress! ... okay its nipped in the bud till at least next week now.

  • May 3, 2011, 2:13 p.m. CST

    mediat forgive me if I'm being stupid but

    by alexander

    didn't the timelock happen after that, with the 8th Doctor? Oh God, have I just shown my utter lack of true Dr Who geekdom & knowledge? I always took it that the timelock on Galifrey happened with the 8th Doctor.

  • Don't let anyone stop you from believing or wanting it. A little bit different, but, I hoping, yes, I said, hoping, praying for the return of the original Cybermen, the ones from our universe. This is not a spoiler or a rumor, just something I think should happen.

  • May 3, 2011, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Yep - Know it, Kelvington

    by Perigee

    Tried to say so last night, but this crappy epileptic forum software was having a 4-hour nervous breakdown. So, I promise - no more ingenius revelations based in a picture slightly larger than a postage stamp....

  • May 3, 2011, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Is Timelock total ?

    by JPKk

    I got the impression that after the time wars that the Rest of the Time Lords were locked throughout time. Didn't that mean that no one could access Gallifrey from any point in time. I'm sure this was just a way to remove all the Gallifrey business when they restarted the series ( and make the Doctor more emotionally needy for the female viewers ). Sort of how Marvel tried to do "no more mutants". Anyway, if that is how the timelock works then how did that mean valley-lord get back there to stir-up trouble ? The Silence ?

  • May 3, 2011, 5:53 p.m. CST

    mediat

    by frozen01

    "Emotionally needy for the female viewers"? Ouch. Um, couldn't you just as easily say that this made him a bit rogueish for the male viewers as well? I don't think it was only done for my fellow (if a bit more sappy) ladies.

  • May 3, 2011, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Demographic Inclusiveness ?

    by JPKk

    As they re-introduce the Doctor, they made some significant adjustments in order to widened the demographic audience. They wanted to maintain the all family viewership, but add depth to characterization of both The Doctor and the companion. Because the original show had this educational adventure tone, the Doctor's role was as an elder/teacher. The companions were students. Some versions of the Doctor are more child like and whimsical. Still plays to the same young audience. Our new versions of the Doctor are intentionally more romantic and have a more complex relationship to the various companions. He is more emotionally vulnerable. Without loss of the the original target audience, they successfully expanded it to relate to a wider demographic.

  • May 3, 2011, 6:50 p.m. CST

    Soo... How was SG-U...?

    by Perigee

    (trollface.jpg) If there's anybody with a burning desire to talk about it, there are three virgins on io9 who are desperately lonely

  • May 3, 2011, 7:34 p.m. CST

    SG-U Lacks Demographic Inclusiveness

    by JPKk

    The omega sign on the gate indicates that the Time Lords were there first.

  • May 3, 2011, 8:38 p.m. CST

    Stargate chevrons, read from left to right:

    by Perigee

    "Hello, Sweetie."

  • ... but how long can you guys/gals last?....

  • what you saw in Trial of, happened BEFORE the timelock was put in place. All events/ visits from the future to Gallifrey if that's what your refering to with the problem of The Valeyard happening BEFORE the timelock is set do not count, or more simply put, did happen at some point in existence, one depicted in 'Trial of A...'

  • and let people spaz out at me like reactionary Epileptics themselves Epileptics are people too!

  • May 4, 2011, 12:10 p.m. CST

    alan_grant_lives ~ Timelock 2

    by JPKk

    I guess the problem is from the point of the viewer. We only will see The Valeyard's birth/arrival in the series now, after the Timelock. What you describe is an alternative timeline or else he escapes into the past after the Timelock is lifted/broken. Another thing that I am unclear on is whether the Valeyard is a true regeneration or double/ghosts of a potential doctor. The master claimed The Valeyard was a definite future regeneration. Was that claim substantiated ? One last question (sorry). Whatever happened to that Tibetan/Atlantean monk that regenerated during the third doctor's run ? I thought he was a Timelord who could travel through time without technology. Was he ever mentioned after Jon Pertwee's doctor ?

  • May 4, 2011, 8:09 p.m. CST

    alan_grant_lives...

    by Kelvington

    Some how I feel slighted... but I'm not smart enough to know for sure. LOL

  • May 4, 2011, 9:04 p.m. CST

    kelvington~Timelock 3

    by JPKk

    "Some how I feel slighted", that's what happens when you look away, a vague uneasiness. look here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/planetofspiders/detail.shtml When the Doctor was a 'young man' he spent a lot of time with an old hermit who lived 'halfway up a mountain just behind our house' (see The Time Monster). This Time Lord regenerated and came to Earth as the Abbot K'Anpo Rinpoche. As his next regeneration approaches he is helped by a projection from his future form, Cho je (see Logopolis). The Doctor is familiar with Tibetan customs (see The Abominable Snowmen). George Cormack plays both the aged and wise King Dalios and K'Anpo Rinpoche. and now look here http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/timemonster/detail.shtml The Doctor : "When I was a little boy, we used to live in a house that was perched halfway up the top of a mountain. Behind our house, there sat under a tree an old man. A hermit, a monk. He'd lived under this tree for half his lifetime, so they said, and had learned the secret of life. So, when my black day came, I went and asked him to help me.'" The Doctor has a precognitive dream. When he was a little boy, he lived in a house half way up a mountain, behind which sat a monk, or hermit, under a tree (see Planet of the Spiders, State of Decay, cf. The Invasion of Time). [Gallifrey] is described as bleak and cold [and has some form of religion, at least outside the Capitol]. Remember to put a mark on your face before you look away and call the Doctor in the morning.

  • May 13, 2011, 4:21 a.m. CST

    Adric/The reason I will never watch the show again

    by fred

    Although the fifth Doctor refused to save Adric by materializing the TARDIS before the cybermen ship exploded because, he said, doing so violated the laws of time, he absolutley no trouble going back in time to catch the falling River Song in the TARDIS swimming pool. I will NEVER watch the show again.

  • Last!

  • March 21, 2012, 12:28 p.m. CST

    In the words of Monty Python...

    by V'Shael

    Oh no it isn't!