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UPDATE!! A Brief DOCTOR WHO News Roundup, A New Documentary About DW Fans, And 'Paradise Towers' (Story #149) On The Friday Docback!!

Published at: July 29, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST by merrick

Merrick again...

Matt Smith's appearance on Craig Ferguson last night (7/29) has now hit YouTube - here's an embed.  It includes discussion of an inspired and talented guest star we might see on S7...

 

 

Original article follows...

 

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submitted by John Byers

 

Merrick here…

We were supposed to be taking a look at "Marco Polo" (Hartnell, Story #4) this week but…frankly…I fell a tad behind (writing up both the recon and audio proved more time intensive than expected) so I'm pushing it at the moment. 

I did, however, visit "Paradise Towers" (McCoy, Story #143)…more on that story below after this quick round-up of newslets (some of which has already been touched on in the previous week). 



PREVIEWS FOR DOCTOR WHO SEASON/SERIES SIX EPISODES 8-13

Last weekend, BBC released a teaser for the remaining Season/Series Six episodes.  In case you missed it, here it is…

 

A new piece of promotional art - i.e. "poster" art - was also debuted on the show's official Facebook page, and looks like this.

Note The Doctor's new long-coat, and the in-your-face appearance of a long-rumored Pyramid.  If a pyramid is THAT obvious in the poster, you can bet it plays a significant role in the madness we've seen unfolding.  Larger/higher-quality wallpaper of the same image is available HERE.

BBC also released a clip from S6 Episode 11, "The God Complex."  This is an extension of the clip used to introduce Karen Gillan's Craig Ferguson appearance earlier this week.  Here's the entirety of Karen's appearance on Ferguson...

 
...and here's a longer version of that S6E11 clip...




KAREN GILLAN CONFIRMS RETURN TO DOCTOR WHO SEASON/SERIES SEVEN

This snippet of a video discussion with Karen Gillan confirms her return for more DOCTOR WHO.

This is a nice confirmation of comments she made a few weeks back via THIS BBC press release - issued a few weeks ago when shooting on Season/Series Six wrapped:  It's summed up by Karen Gillan who pauses to take one last look at the incredible location we've used today. 'It's quite sad to be saying goodbye to the boys,' she comments, before adding with a smile, 'But we'll be re-united again very soon!'

No word yet on Arthur Darvill, although his absence from Comic-Con was taunted by Matt Smith and Karen Gillan in this video postcard…

 

 

DON'T FORGET MATT SMITH IS ON CRAIG FERGUSON TONIGHT (SITE HERE)

I'll post a link of embed presuming any are available over the weekend.

 

 

FANZ - A NEW DOCUMENTARY ABOUT DOCTOR WHO FANS 

We received an e-mail about this project last night.  I haven't had a chance to check this out yet...but I submit it here for consideration in the Docback below. 

 


 

COMING TO DVD AUGUST 9 IN THE U.S…

"PARADISE TOWERS" (Story #149) -  by Steven Wyatt

Available HERE in the U.S.  and HERE in the U.K.


The Doctor (Sylvester McCoy) and companion Mel (Bonnie Langford) arrive at Paradise Towers - a gargantuan, high-end housing/social block piercing several hundred  stories into the sky.  They hope to avail themselves of its swimming pool (The Doctor says he jettisoned the pool on the TARDIS - wonder how he got it back?  Would that be something that's programmable, or…what?).  Alas, as we're quickly reminded, in DOCTOR WHO even something as simple as going for a swim presents unforeseen challenges, obstacles, and dangers.  

Turns out the once luxurious Paradise Towers is now in shambles.  Decaying and ill-maintained, it is gloomy, grim, and tagged by endless "wallscrawl" (graffiti).  Bureaucratically  obsessed "Caretakers" apprehensively patrol the building, and are evidently somewhat ineffective. They seem begrudgingly aware that something more is wrong at Paradise Towers than mere urban decay: it's a menace transcending the color-coded, all-girl "Kang" gangs who roam the facility's corridors, or the robotic "Cleaners" which appear to be following a plan wholly unrelated to their initial programming or intent.  

The Doctor and Mel are quickly propelled into a dizzying and surreal adventure as they come face-to-face with…

...the aforementioned Kangs, who have a slang dialect of their own and are pledged to a specific color - i.e. "Red Kangs," "Blue Kangs," and the recently extinct "Yellow Kangs"…

…Pex (Howard Cooke) - a grown-but-childlike wannabe hero whose well-intentioned efforts are sometimes a dangerous hindrance...

…an over-bearing Chief Caretaker (Richard Briers) who believes The Doctor's arrival actually represents the return of Kroagnon, "The Great Architect" (not a good thing)…

…and Tilda and Tabby (Brenda Bruce and Elizabeth Spriggs respectively) - jabbering little old ladies with a decidedly dark and deadly agenda.  

All of these seemingly disparate characters and elements collide in the story's decidedly STAR TREKian finale.  To be clear, I don't say "STAR TREKian" in any form of negative context here.  Regular readers may recall that I'm slowly making my way through every DOCTOR WHO episode ever made - and may also remember my deep-rooted and undying love for The Original STAR TREK series. "Paradise Towers" is the first DW story I've come across that actually carries something of a TREK vibe.  Like many TREK Original Series episodes, it glances at social concerns while forcing us to scrutinize our own human nature a bit.  

In the end, and in no uncertain terms, "Paradise Towers" is about groups of people who are very set in their ways learning to grow beyond who they've become.  They must set aside long-held fears and preconceptions in order to work towards a greater, and common good - and it's up to an offworlder (in this case The Doctor) to show them the way.  That's very TREK, particularly "Classic" TREK. And in this instance, this is a mighty good thing.  

"Paradise Towers" is bold in concept but sometimes weak in technical execution.  Much of the story's set work is remarkably solid, although Cleaner robot props are clunky and immediately deflate their intended menace (they are, unfortunately,  somewhat integral).  On the whole, this story remains most notable for its atypically surreal and off-kilter tone, as well as its unpleasant setting and interesting spins on some strong genre influences.  STAR TREK's "Miri" is present here, as is MAD MAX BEYOND THUNDERDOME and no small amount of BRAZIL (see the "Extras" enumeration below). While riffing on such genre conceits might sink many shows, DOCTOR WHO approaches its inspirations wisely here - shaping material we've seen before (elsewhere) into elements which feel fresh and intriguing within in the context of the WHOverse.  After all, as The Doctor says in the opening moments of Part 1, "Nothing's just rubbish if you have an inquiring mind..."

Interesting, sometimes bizarre, and usually fun.  Quite solid, but not stellar. 

Extras include...

 


"HORROR ON THE HIGH RISE"

Hosted by WHO composer Mark Ayres.

-- Insight from Andrew Cartmel (Script Editor)  "I knew that any attempt to do anything too science fictional was liable to screw up in terms of special effects..."

-- Insight from Stephen Wyatt (writer) - discusses his interest in J.G. Ballard's book HIGH RISE and how "Paradise Towers" developed out of it.  Says script is somewhat unique in that no notes were taken during its writing - mental notes of discussions gave rise to improv drafting.  Strangely, no mention here of PT's religious symbolism.  EX. the story references a Great Pool In The Sky (floor 304, at the top of the building)  - aka "the home of the unalive."  People are afraid to go here, but it turns out to be a place of peace and unity (Heaven?).  There's also a beastly horror creature/machine thing trapped in the building's basement who wishes to escape and claim Paradise Towers as its domain, etc. (The Devil/Hell?) 

-- Insight from Catherine Cusack (Blue Kang Leader)...

-- Insight from Howard Cooke (Pex)...

-- Writer Stephen Wyatt discuses original intent of Caretakes concept -vs- their actualization for the story (definitely different interpretations - I prefer Wyatt's)...

-- Insight from Richard Briers (Chief Caretaker)...

-- Discussion of whether Brier's post-possession performance was overplayed...

-- Discussion of Pex as a parody of Stallone / Schwarzenegger "vigilante"...

-- Discussion of the robotic cleaners / attack robot in the pool not being as effective as intended...

— A brief discussion of BRAZIL's influence on this episode...

-- Insight from David Snell, composer of "Paradise Towers" rejected score.  NOTE:  Snell's score can be heard on this DVD (find it under the audio settings).  As a result of Snell's score being rejected...

-- Keff McCullough (scored this story in week).  I noticed that one of McCulloch's riffs on Ron Grainer's theme sounds like incidental music from a BEVERLY HILLS COP film - Grainer's theme is used within the incidental music of this episode.  One action movement (Pex's rescue of Mel from Tilda and Tabby's home) ALMOST evokes a recurring motif in Murray Gold's recent work - the opening (rolling) intro to this selection:

 

 

DELETED AND EXTENDED SCENES (7:52)
 

 

CONTINUITY

BBC's Intros, outros, plugs, etc.  Not sure why this is called "continuity"...

 

 

GIRLS! GIRLS! GIRLS!  THE EIGHTIES

Introduced by Peter Purves (companion Steven to Hartnell's Doctor), this is a discussion amongst Sophie Aldred (companion Ace), Janet Fielding (companion Tegan), and Sarah Sutton (companion Nyssa) - who evaluate their relationship to their roles, to the show in general, the images they conveyed as WHO Girls, the effects of the show on their futures and careers, etc.  VERY INTERESTING. 

Fielding discusses her unrequited desire to play Lucy from CHARLIE BROWN - Tegan is her interpretation of Lucy for the WHOverse. 

 

CASTING SYLVESTER

insight re: the casting of McCoy as The Doctor from Clive Doig, a BBC producer who at one point was in talks with BBC Head of Drama Mark Shivas about possibly producing DOCTOR WHO.  He had a desire to return to "psychological aspects of Science Fiction" and have a woman Doctor.

 

PHOTO GALLERY

It's a gallery.  Of photos.  But not this one: 

 via @OldRoberts953 via SFX

 



PDF

Radio Times listings.





 
 

coming next week

"The Sun Makers" (Baker, Story #95)

and hopefully we'll finally get to "Marco Polo" (recon and audio)

 

 


--- follow Merrick on Twitter ! ---
--- I'm also on Google + ! ---

 

 

DOCBACK CODE OF CONDUCT
 
AICN's Friday DOCTOR WHO Talkbacks - aka "Docbacks"  - operate on a different set of standards than other AICN Talkbacks.  These standards developed quickly and naturally, and we intend to preserve them.  Accordingly, please take a moment to note a few guidelines which should help proceedings move along smoothly and pleasantly:  
 
1) a Docback should be about completely open and free discourse regarding all things WHO (with, obviously, some variation on subject matter from time to time - the real world intervenes, discussions of other shows are inevitable, etc.)... 

2) Matters of SPOILAGE should be handled with thoughtful consideration and sensitivity.  Posts containing SPOILERS should clearly state that a SPOILER exists in its topic/headline and should never state the spoiler itself . "** SPOILER ** Regarding Rory" is OK, for example.  "** SPOILER ** Battle of Zarathustra" is fine as well.  "**SPOILER** Why did everyone die?"  Is NOT good.  

And, above all... 

3) converse, agree, disagree, and question as much as you want - but the freedom to do so is NOT a license to be rude, crass, disrespectful, or uncivilized in any way.  Not remaining courteous and civil, and/or TROLLING or undertaking sensational efforts to ignite controversy, will result in banning.  Lack of courtesy may receive one (1) warning before a ban is instigated.  Obvious Trolling or Spamming will result in summary banning with no warning.  
 
In short, it's easy.  Be excellent to each other.  Now party on...
 


 

Readers Talkback

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  • July 29, 2011, 11:33 a.m. CST

    The New Coat

    by puby

    How long will it last?

  • July 29, 2011, 11:48 a.m. CST

    re: New coat

    by 1TrueGod

    Feels very jack harkness... a guess a good man goes to war

  • July 29, 2011, 11:50 a.m. CST

    I am on series 3. Can't wait to catch up.

    by Mahaloth

    We are loving series 3 right now.

  • July 29, 2011, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Adventures with the Wife in Space

    by Neil Perryman

    For a slightly different look at the series, follow this blog where a not-we wife watches the series from the very beginning with her fan-boy husband: http://tachyon-tv.co.uk/wife-in-space/

  • July 29, 2011, 12:20 p.m. CST

    (Possable spoilers) What if

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    an event happens where it makes the Doctor super pissed off to the point that he changes into the Valeyard? Something like River killing Rory perhaps?

  • July 29, 2011, 12:25 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the McCoy photo, Merrick!

    by DoctorTom

    It definitely brightened up my afternoon. I'll have to look at the embedded videos later since IT blocks the videos here at work.

  • July 29, 2011, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Michael Jackson's Ghost

    by DoctorTom

    With the path the Doctor's been on, he's been heading toward full Dream Lord/Valeyard attitude; he got called on it by the Silurian and by River in A Good Man Goes to War. <br> <br> It's possible that River kills Rory, but I don't think it sends the Doctor to full blown Valeyardhood, at least not that he wouldn't recover from. If it did, then it would have been reflected in River's attitudes to the younger Doctor more than just the telling off she just gave him.

  • July 29, 2011, 12:32 p.m. CST

    OMG That clip had "The Shining" pouring out of every frame!

    by Clavius

    Come play with us Rory! Come play with us forever...and ever.......and ever!

  • July 29, 2011, 1:29 p.m. CST

    Arthur Darvill is treading the boards in London

    by penhapus

    hence his non-appearance.

  • July 29, 2011, 1:36 p.m. CST

    Craig Ferguson AND Matt Smith?

    by YackBacker

    Sweet Mother, my brain canna handle the glory!

  • July 29, 2011, 1:44 p.m. CST

    It's happened before, yackbacker

    by DoctorTom

    It was definitely fun

  • July 29, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    MJ's GHOST

    by batmancw

    I've thought that the "good man/hero to many" River kills would be Rory for some time now & it only upped the ante when my suspicions that she was Amy & Rory's daughter were confirmed. Also, we've had NO confirmation that Rory will be back in season 7 as of yet. Sure, it COULD be the Doctor she kills, but that's almost too obvious, unless that IS her as a child in the spacesuit that killed the "future" Doctor, who is perhaps/probably? the "ganger Doctor". Either way, I cannot wait for the rest of this season!

  • July 29, 2011, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Seriously, if you keep pushing Sylvester McCoy episodes,

    by Angry Mike

    new fans won't come to the show. Its the absolute worst period in this show's history, and it seems its all anyone talks about.

  • July 29, 2011, 2 p.m. CST

    doctortom, just watched it- Three Octopuses and an Otter!

    by YackBacker

    I just changed my undergarments. Awesome.

  • July 29, 2011, 2:05 p.m. CST

    That's a matter of opinion, angrymike

    by DoctorTom

    Most people would agree about the season 24 episodes, but a season 25 and 26 had some stories that hold their own with the best Who that's been made. <br> By the way, Merrick is 'pushing' the McCoy episodes because those are what are being released on DVD now. He covered Time and the Rani about the time it came out, and he's covering Paradise Towers because it's coming out next week. You'll see that he will also cover the other new DVD release coming out next week (The Sun Makers). It's absurd to suggest for him to not cover the new DVD releases when it's something that can be discussed between halves of the new season being shown.

  • July 29, 2011, 2:06 p.m. CST

    Review The Who is back

    by Darth_Tarantino

    Just to let you guys know (as many of you have been kind enough to visit in the past), my Doctor Who review blog is back up. Featuring reviews and articles by myself and my friend Alex Wilkinson (who is a walking encyclopedia of all things DW), several new entries this week so if you've got 5 minutes spare have a wander over: http://reviewthewho.wordpress.com/

  • July 29, 2011, 2:23 p.m. CST

    I agree with doctortom

    by Mister Vertue

    Sylvester's reign gets a bad rap, and he definitely had some highlights, although I don't think Paradise Towers was one of them (just my opinion). By the way, now that we've got Lynda Baron back on the show, I want Richard Briers to come back too. Think he'll do it? Let's find out...

  • July 29, 2011, 2:26 p.m. CST

    The Sun Makers

    by Mister Vertue

    Managed to find the time to watch it a few weeks back and realised that I hadn't seen it all before, which was a lovely surprise. I always enjoy 'new' Doctor Who. Looking forward to reading the Docbackers opinions of that particular story.

  • July 29, 2011, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Paradise Towers & Delta and the Bannermen

    by Meglos

    The nadir of classic Who IMO.

  • July 29, 2011, 2:46 p.m. CST

    I thought California was supposed to be sunny?

    by Mister Vertue

    I should demand my money back. Actually, I much prefer it this way. Nothing wrong with a few wee clouds, is there? I don't think I could live here though.

  • July 29, 2011, 3 p.m. CST

    Karen Gilllan...

    by DoubleFantasy

    ...is the most stunningly beautiful down to earth, charming ginger on the block. That is all.

  • July 29, 2011, 3:24 p.m. CST

    The new coat it's...

    by ames prather

    ...very brown. ;~) ??Pseudo?? Out.

  • July 29, 2011, 3:25 p.m. CST

    MOV

    by Evilmeister

    Have you been enjoying some cocktails by any chance? Keep an eye out. I heara certain rather talented British show runner is out there at the moment. You never know, you might even get his autograph :p

  • July 29, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Later McCoy excellent

    by rkhalloran

    Angry Mike, I'll agree the first season was nonsense, but later episodes like Silver Nemesis and Battlefield (part of the infamous "Cartmel Masterplan") were as good as any done in the original run. If you want non-stop swill, step back to The Other Baker. Sylvester redeemed himself by the end of his tenure.

  • July 29, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST

    pseudosenjambedlogin re: The new coat...

    by Greg McCambley

    The 11th Doctor a Browncoat? *shivers* Sorry, just got the image of the Firefly/DW universes coming together... :-)

  • July 29, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    The McCoy era had its moments...

    by Greg McCambley

    Once Andrew Cartmel was able to work on his vision for the show (without being held back by the previous script editor), it got a lot better. It gave the show a companion/Doctor relationship unlike any that had come before. The final 4 episodes were epic in scope, and were some of the best episodes ever.

  • July 29, 2011, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Frontios was really good.

    by Rebel Scumb

    Turns out part 4 was the first doctor who I ever saw. And of that probably only about 1-2 minutes before I got to terrified to continue. VERY nostalgic to go back to that all these years later. I also grabbed: Earthshock, Visitation, Awakening, & also Black Orchid which I've already seen

  • It occured to me that a fair amount of the early doctors wore hats, but we haven't had a hatted new-era doctor yet.

  • July 29, 2011, 4:25 p.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    The 11th wears a Fez from time to time.

  • July 29, 2011, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Fezes are cool!

    by YackBacker

    That's why he wears them.

  • July 29, 2011, 5:20 p.m. CST

    In defence of McCoy

    by Darth_Tarantino

    McCoy's era features my favourite Classic Who episode, "The Curse Of Fenric" and it's episodes like that which show just how good McCoy could be in the role. We get a Doctor who is manipulative, always looking at the bigger pictures, clearly has secrets. That's why I enjoyed his later stories, in spite of the earlier ones suffering from the comic pratfalls and silliness of the Colin Baker era. I'm actually writing a McCoy era retrospective for the blog at the moment. Alex already did one for Paul McGann, we'll eventually cover all The Doctors :)

  • July 29, 2011, 5:44 p.m. CST

    McCoy's era killed the show. FACT!

    by Angry Mike

    I am not going to get into that there were "moments" during his reign, or "McCoy was good, the material wasn't". Fact is the show in terms of writing, production values, and ACTING (agreed not McCoy) was sub par even for a children's show. This column is basically for new fans of the series, ones that have never seen the show in its original incarnation. There's a time and a place to talk about the McCoy era, it shouldn't be anyone's introduction to the show now (doesn't count if you saw it first run). These articles should be pushing the Pertwee/Tom Baker era. Highlight some of the great Davison era shows (especially the number one voted episodes of all time, Davison's Caves of Androzani). Tip off which black and white moody Hartnell/Troughton shows to watch (The Daleks/Tomb of the Cybermen). Stay away from the Colin Baker/McCoy eras for now until people actually get into the show. You wouldn't expect someone that never saw a star wars movie to watch Phantom Menace and WANT to get into the rest of the series, would you?

  • July 29, 2011, 6:20 p.m. CST

    God Complex

    by HornOrSilk

    Sorry, if I didn't know better, I would still say "Lord Nimon!" Seriously. It is pure Nimon feel.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:25 p.m. CST

    Paradise Towers

    by HornOrSilk

    I am one of the few fans who finds this a great episode. At times, it is very panto, to be sure, and it was all they could do with the budget they had; the fact that they went panto helps save the budget issues which affect the cleaners. But behind it all is a very solid story. It is, of course, similar to something that would later by done by Pullman. The Great Architect, of course, being an allegory for God. I have no problems with that (and I'm a very solid Christian, as some might remember). Behind even that, as said, there is a great morality lesson about living together in a world falling apart. The over-zealous rule holders have to learn how to deal with the anarchists... and what many people now realize, Gridlock is really Paradise Towers 2.0. J.G. Ballard's High Rise is also a major influence on this story. Again, I can understand why people don't like the campy-panto-nature of this one. The story is solid and would have been great if done in a more serious fashion. Gridlock, I think, shows that (it's a popular one). But I think the camp adds its own elements and helps deal with the BBC budget the best way. It is the most effective story of S24 and the one which sold me on Sylvester McCoy for the Doctor.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:26 p.m. CST

    Oh, and Paradise Towers is just about to be released on DVD

    by HornOrSilk

    In the US, and was just released in the UK. Of course that's why it is in the DocBack. And McCoy's era didn't destroy the show. BBC destroyed the show.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:29 p.m. CST

    Rebel - On Frontios

    by HornOrSilk

    I very much agree; it is a creepy story, and creepier if you know what they wanted to do but didn't with the human bones. It's the closest Doctor Who got to Giger in the classical era, and I think it works. It's always been a favorite of mine of the Davison era. Here are the Davison episodes I like the most: Kinda Black Orchid Enlightenment Frontios Caves of Androzani

  • July 29, 2011, 6:32 p.m. CST

    BTW, I think Gangers Explain S5 Rory

    by HornOrSilk

    Just think it through.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:32 p.m. CST

    darth tarantino

    by Rebel Scumb

    Based on your hearty recommendation I am going to put Fenric at the top of my list for episodes to get next of classic who. I've enjoyed what've seen of the mccoy stuff so far.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:34 p.m. CST

    by James Taylor

    While the McCoy era did kill the original run (that much is obvious by the fact that it, y'know, got cancelled) this was less to do with the quality of the show and far more to do with it being on at the worse possible time with a rapidly dwindling budget. Really, compare to the quality of most of the earlier Doctor's it's not really any worse (except they could now film on location with vido rather than film, which looked horrible at the time). Of course given that it was 87 o 89 you would expect the quality to be better than the older shows, which is part of the problem with it. I have to wonder hiw the show would have faired if Tivo was around at the time. Anyway, I agree that it would be a dreadful starting point for anyone new to the show, but since there's a convinient amount of excellence available thanks to the post 2005 revamp I don't see that this is an issue - only an idiot would suggest starting with McCoy, and nobody would appear to be recommending otherwise. Coming to them later does no damage though - and as someone has said, this is out on DVD shortly, so why wouldn't Merrik review it now. For the record I think McCoy and the writing team were trying something very interesting at the time of the show's demise, and it's a shame that they and the show were done a diservice and didn't have a chance to complete what they started. Also for the record I have to say that the promo poster for the later half of this series is bloody dreadful and I wish they'd hire an artist to start putting them together rather than a decent photographer and a bloke who's used Photoshop a bit. Yuk.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:35 p.m. CST

    A curious detail in that Fall trailer...

    by TheSeeker7

    Notice that the nice guy schlub character who was in love with his friend & roomie in series 5's "The Lodger" reappears obviously somewhere in the remaining series 6 episodes. Here's the thing, though: in The Lodger, when the Doctor does that sort of 'mind meld' move on the guy as a quick way to reveal who he is and all the info about him, among all the imagery that quickly flashes in the guy's mind is the exterior of the Tardis. But then the guy pulls back and excitedly asks "You've got a TARDIS?!?!"<br> <br> How the hell did this guy know what a TARDIS was? That's always stuck with me from that episode, and I wonder, knowing Moffat, if that wasn't the beginning of a very small seed being planted.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Clearly that should have had a subject...

    by James Taylor

    But I can't be bothered to think of one now ;)

  • July 29, 2011, 6:37 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk

    by Rebel Scumb

    I thought resurretion of the daleks was a pretty good actioner to. I still laugh at the title of 'Kinda', which I have not yet seen. Just because I regularly visit www.tvshowsondvd.com and I remember the headline for its release was 'new doctor who story released, kinda' So I thought they meant that BBC was 'kind of' releasing something new, but it wasn't really new. It wasn't until I saw it on the shelf at HMV that I found out the title actually was KINDA

  • July 29, 2011, 6:38 p.m. CST

    I can certainly see why you're called 'angry mike'

    by Mister Vertue

    'There's a time and a place to talk about the McCoy era' and this is exactly where we do it! His era is as much a part of the world of Doctor Who as Tom Baker's era or Jon Pertwee's. The Docback Code of Conduct is there for all to see, and it clearly states 'a Docback should be about completely open and free discourse regarding all things WHO'. It's right there at the top! It isn't even in fine print. I hate fine print. I also hate liars, but in that category I'm quite the hypocrite because I do tend to lie now and again. And by 'now and again' I actually mean 'daily', but I feel it's for the greater good, so I can sleep at night. Sometimes. Sleep happens very rarely for me, but when it happens, I do sleep soundly. Not that I'm calling you a liar. I'm not. I'm merely saying that the Docback serves as a platform for us all to discuss each and every Doctor, some more than others, but without making someone feel bad for being a fan of Colin Baker or Sylvester McCoy. I think that makes sense. Sort of. Anyway, continue to talk all things 'Doctor Who' and answer me this 'what's with all those bloody eye patches in the latest trailer'? Doesn't that strike you as rather odd? That's what I'd be asking...

  • July 29, 2011, 6:52 p.m. CST

    Sorry, I didnt' read about the extras until now

    by HornOrSilk

    So I see High Rise was mentioned. I often try to be surprised with the extras. It's strange. But I've seen the show so many times, the extras become the thing I read less on so as to feel something new is coming.

  • July 29, 2011, 6:57 p.m. CST

    Rebel

    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, I like more Davison episodes; I just listed my favorites. My next group would be: Castrovalva (I like the Escher idea) Earthshock (it is slow, but the ending raises it up more than it deserves) Snakedance Resurrection of the Daleks --- And Kinda is a very odd one. It's one of my favorite Who stories because it is a very mythological-psychological-crazy story. It engages and combines Buddhist and Christian myths in an interesting blend. And the Doctor is the one called an idiot in this one! It is also Adric's best 5th Doctor story.

  • July 29, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST

    And for the fun of it.. a long list of my favorites

    by HornOrSilk

    There are many not on this list I like, this is just the ones I like the best... at least now (some episodes go up and down, some always remain up). An Unearthly Child (the first episode only) Edge of Destruction The Aztecs The Romans The Power of the Daleks The Faceless Ones The Evil of the Daleks The War Games Inferno The Daemons The Curse of Peladon Planet of Spiders Genesis of the Daleks Deadly Assassin Talons of Weng-Chiang The Androids of Tara City of Death Kinda Black Orchid Enlightenment Frontios Caves of Androzani The Two Doctors Trial of a Time Lord Paradise Towers Curse of Fenric Ghostlight Dalek The Empty Child/Doctor Dances New Earth School Reunion Human Nature/Family of Blood Blink Journey's End Eleventh Hour Vincent and the Doctor A Christmas Carol

  • July 29, 2011, 7:08 p.m. CST

    theseeker7

    by Mister Vertue

    Craig (The Lodger) reacts that way because he's telepathically linked to The Doctor's mind and has access to his history, thereby gaining knowledge of the Tardis. That line was supposed to convey to the viewer that Craig now knows things he shouldn't (which explains why he also knows about the Lammasteen scanner technology). I can see the confusion though, so I do hope this answers your question, assuming that was the initial misunderstanding you had in the first place!

  • July 29, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST

    So in conclusion

    by Mister Vertue

    And just for further clarification, no seed was planted there, but nice guess! Seeds have been planted elsewhere though. And no, none of them involve The Valeyard. Or The Rani. Or Lord Nimon. Or Adric.

  • July 29, 2011, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Time can be rewritten

    by Mister Vertue

    That's what we need to be focusing on with regards to the next few episodes. What exactly would happen if certain people died, and others survived? How would that change the future? Would it possibly create a new future? Could The Doctor fix it? And would he really want to? Just something to ponder over. Must dash!

  • July 29, 2011, 7:27 p.m. CST

    man of vertue

    by TheSeeker7

    Hmm. Well, I mean of course I can see a certain logic to what you're saying. But then again, I'm thinking if the mind meld has now essentially given the guy all of (or even most) the doctor's collective knowledge, so as to instantly explain what a Tardis is (among other things) I'm not sure I'd see then why he'd be so shocked (though presumably in a good way) that the doctor has one. Because if he really does instantly understand all the stuff about the Doctor's existence, it doesn't seem like it's all that crazy of a notion for doc to have a tardis. but, we shall see...

  • July 29, 2011, 7:36 p.m. CST

    Impossible Astronaut loose end

    by Jeffrey Possberg

    Just rewatched the episode for hints about the season to come - any thoughts on whether there's a hidden moment regarding the Silence's attack on Rory and River while they are navigating the proto-TARDIS? All we see is River's reaction and a flash of light meant to imply the Silence is using their person-explode-o-ray on Rory. Then the sudden 3 month jump forward.

  • July 29, 2011, 8:12 p.m. CST

    so those eye-patches in the trailer...

    by Ithrat Cordwallis

    i suspect they are there to have us thinking that river song is, or was, or possibly might be madame kovarian. This, however, can't be true as madame kovarian is clearly the product of a genetic mash-up between madame sosostris, the fortune telling charlatan from eliot's 'the wasteland', and Jack 'Dr death' kevorkian, who was jailed for compassionate homicide, and river song is nothing like those people at all. of course, if river is kovarian then it stands to reason that she kidnapped herself simply because it had already happened, or that she was pissed off with the doctor for not saving her in 69, or that she was simply having to pay for somebody's silence. more importantly, i think, is will Amy and rory have more children and i think yes. actually, i reckon they will have had 5 by the time Amy's 31.

  • July 29, 2011, 8:33 p.m. CST

    the mccoy era

    by Ithrat Cordwallis

    by rights, McCoy should have been my doctor, but i just did not like the stories or, indeed, the character of the doctor at that point when i should have been a captivated 10 year old. i had a few memories of Davison's outfit, which i liked, and of the baker era gloriously cheap video cybermen, but there had to have been something amiss with those years if they were totally failing to interest a smart kid who loved a bit of tv sci fi. that said, my youthful non interest in who didn't stop my excitement about the revival, which i have been really enjoying, and would have done even more so had i had a television.

  • July 29, 2011, 10:49 p.m. CST

    mediagold

    by Angry Mike

    thanks.

  • July 30, 2011, 12:06 a.m. CST

    rebel scumb, Fenric's a good start...

    by Greg McCambley

    ...but I would recommend that you pick up all Ghost Light and Survival as well. Those 3 stories combined make up Ace's superb character arc, with Fenric playing the crucial second story. Fenric also has one of the best cliffhanger endings ever (IMHO). I'll let you guess which one I'm talking about when you see it. BTW, I would also suggest Battlefield as well. That one's not high on most people's lists, I think, but it is a great swansong for UNIT and has one of the Brigadier's best ever moments. It's one of my pesonal favourites of the McCoy era.

  • July 30, 2011, 12:24 a.m. CST

    I may be new to these docbacks...

    by Greg McCambley

    ...but I'm guessing mediagold's comments were out of line. Perhaps that's just me, though, what with all the problems I apparently have...

  • July 30, 2011, 12:44 a.m. CST

    thatsalaugh

    by Merrick

    ***I'm guessing mediagold's comments were out of line*** Correct.

  • July 30, 2011, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Thank you, Merrick...

    by Greg McCambley

    ...both for your confirmation, and for your doing these docbacks. This takes me back to the good old days of usenet and newsgroups. Keep up the great work, and I hope you're feeling better...

  • July 30, 2011, 12:47 a.m. CST

    thatsalaugh

    by Merrick

    Much appreciated, and you're most welcome. Truly my pleasure.

  • July 30, 2011, 1:14 a.m. CST

    Why were mediagold's comments deleted?

    by Angry Mike

  • July 30, 2011, 1:46 a.m. CST

    TIME CAN BE REWRITTEN........

    by SISKOKID

    ...as I have said before, I still think that River may be erased from history. If Amy is coming back for another season, I don't think the writers will want a family on the TARDIS, the Doc STILL searching for the baby or Amy getting the baby back to leave at home to have adventures with the Doc! Suppose being WHO, they could have a twist where the baby is NOT actually River after all or Amy's pregnancy was faked in some way (my head hurts). Regarding Sylvester as the Doc, in some ways his portrayal is similar to Matt's as in neither of them really portray the 'quiet authority' that the Doc should have-bit too much bumbling and clowning for my liking.

  • July 30, 2011, 2:35 a.m. CST

    angry mike admit it there are two McCoy periods

    by amteurwho

    The ones with Bonnie Langford were awful (although the cannibal grannies were a stroke of genius you have to admit). But the later stories when they got decent writing and a better companion (because at 8 years old Ace was my hero) hold up against any of those from the classic era.

  • July 30, 2011, 4:59 a.m. CST

    Odds and Sods...

    by Andy Buckle

    Long-time lurker, thought it was about time I posted something. Before I waffle on, I'd like to add my thanks to Merrick for these DocBacks. Amid all the conjecture, banter and lively debate, there's a genuine love for my favourite show shining through. It's good to see so many people contributing, from people just discovering the good Doctor, through old duffers like myself who grew up with Classic Who, and on to those who are clearly intimately connected to the current incarnation (Hi MOV!). Anyways... McCoy's Doctor was rather too comedic for me to begin with, though I still have fond memories of Fenric, Survival and Battlefield. Although I was in my late teens, so was rather more concerned with music, drinking and pining after unattainable women at the time. As for the show now, I'm loving it. Matt is an incredible Doctor, up there with the best of them, Karen is adorable and Arthur is funny and likeable (when he's not dead, obviously). As for Alex Kingston... mmm. Yes. I can't wait to see what happens next! But I have to. Boo.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:26 a.m. CST

    The McCoy era had two major problems...

    by Stegman84

    ...or three, if you count the BBC trying its absolute hardest to finally kill the show (f you Michael Grade, seriously). But yeah, anyway, the two major problems was a first season with McCoy that was largely absolute pants, with Delta & the Bannermen being the worst Doctor Who story ever in my opinion, and Time and the Rani being a pretty horrible launch to the McCoy era. Compared to those two, Paradise Towers seemed like a minor masterpiece, when in reality it was pretty darn mediocre at best, and Dragonfire, while better, wasn't that much better. It also didn't help that Bonnie Langford was the most annoying companion ever (again, in my opinion anyway). Seriously, she made me wish for the 'glory days' or Adric and Dodo. Thankfully the following seasons were a huge improvement, and Ace would be a superb companion for the McCoy era Doctor. The second major problem of the McCoy era was shooting so much of it on videotape, which looked horrible then, and even worse now. And I honestly think that little did more damage to the show in that era than just how cheap and shoddy and amaturish the shot on videotape look impacted on the show and how it was viewed by both the public at large, and the critics who were looking for any excuse to have a go. The stupidly miniscule budgets were bad enough, but the video look was a real killer. But there is definitely some good stuff in the McCoy era, particularly once Aldred and Cartmel were both fully on board, you just need to get past some of the bad to get there is all.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:44 a.m. CST

    siskokid - maybe a slight spoiler here......

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...but regarding time can be re-written, there have been definate indications that what we've seen is taking place in another time line. Certainly things to come would also point to that fact.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:49 a.m. CST

    angry mike - didn't see the comments myself but I can bet you....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....that he pissed all over the rules of the DocBack. What we ask for here is completely different to the rest of AICN talkbacks- no trolling, abuse or personal attacks. They are clearly indicated by Merrick at the bottom of his posts. People want to shout and scream and whatnot? Take it elsewhere.

  • Nice to see MOV being quite so active... MOV - asked - Why the eyepatches? WILD CRAZY GUESS - MAYBE SPOILERS. Inside the eyepatch is an image of a silent...

  • By the time McCoy came around the BEEB was definately out of love with Who. The scripting and whatnot was a result of this. McCoy era could have been so much better had there been the love we have now.

  • July 30, 2011, 6:51 a.m. CST

    eyepatches...

    by dj_bollocks

    I'd always assumed the eyepatches altered your perspective this you could see them - like having two eyes negates their existence but only seeing through one eye makes them visible...

  • July 30, 2011, 6:57 a.m. CST

    @notspock2 - Good One! (Spoiler)

    by veteran_of_mu

    I love that idea - that way you'd never forget them and they'd become powerless. But consider that it's a really low-tech solution so if it could work the Doc would think of it straight off the bat - no?

  • July 30, 2011, 7:26 a.m. CST

    angry mike re:mediagold

    by Greg McCambley

    As has been pointed out before, mediagold's comment is gone because he broke Docback rules by insulting everyone who likes McCoy era episodes. You may not like McCoy (may even loathe him), and that's fine. It's your right. However, if you decide to insult everyone else for their choices, that gets you banned. I'm liking this docback more and more...

  • July 30, 2011, 7:37 a.m. CST

    I wish I could love the McCoy era (+ spoiler theory)

    by Evilmeister

    I loved the guy as a comedian before he got the gig, but having Mel as the companion just drove me away. At the time in the UK - she was one of those people you could never understand why she was famous. Anyway I tried again later on during the time of Ace, but the production values meant I didnt really get into it. Plus discovering girls, drink and parties :D My spoiler theory about the eyepatch:- I think someone mentioned before, but if it is madame koravian (or wotever she's called) who regenerates into river, it would make a very interesting timey-wimey story line indeed :D Long live the docback!

  • July 30, 2011, 7:53 a.m. CST

    evilmeister. and spoiler spec re: eyepatches.

    by notspock2

    I remember Mel being the reason i found it very difficult to watch in the eighties- Ace made the show watchable again, but i think the Damage to the show's reputation had been done by then.. and RE: eyepatches- I was more thinking the eye patch was putting the people wearing them under the control of the silents.

  • July 30, 2011, 8:02 a.m. CST

    stegman re:Delta and the Bannermen

    by Greg McCambley

    I actually don't mind Delta and the Bannermen, mostly because it was trying to shirk off the goofiness of Time and the Rani. Ray might have been an interesting choice to replace Mel as companion (or even join them and meet up with Ace. I can just imagine her driving Ace around, so she can chuck bombs everywhere. As Ace would say, Wicked!) It was nice to see a different locale on earth (a 50s holiday camp in Wales. I wonder what's there now.) And I think this story might actually have been the turning point for Sylv's portrayal from light to dark, thanks to the viciousness of the Bannermen. There was a heavy loss of life in this one, from the toll operator to the entire space tourist group. It reminded the Doctor that the universe is full of very nasty things indeed, and to play the clown is not enough. And then there was the beekeeper. Who was he? We never find out, but he seemed to know the Doctor, and the Doctor seemed to know him. It added some mystery to the Doctor's past, which was one of the key highlights of Andrew Cartmel's time on DW. As a side note about the Beekeeper, I think he was either another Time Lord, or Sherlock Holmes. (Speaking of whom, the Doctor later meets Sherlock Holmes in one of my favourite Virgin DW novels, "All-Consuming Fire.")

  • July 30, 2011, 8:40 a.m. CST

    @notspock

    by Evilmeister

    I tried watching some with ace recently but it was hard going, mostly cos it was the first time I'd noticed how bad the video looked. I know I'll try again though as I want to enjoy it. One of my earliest memories is Pertwee and the green death and apart from McCoy I've seen everything in between. That gap needs to be filled! As for the eyepatch, I'm looking forward to finding out. For me the regeneration seems more plausible as it would add another layer to the timey-wimieness of the character and we've seen how the Moff likes to add layers that only become apparent on a second viewing. In the end I don't mind what they do, the current team behind Dr Who totally 'get' the kind of Dr Who I've always wanted to see. I have complete faith that no matter how this season ends, it will be a hell of a ride and one that I will rewatch dozens of times. Peace and love Mr E

  • July 30, 2011, 9:32 a.m. CST

    Well, I've got my Davies DVDs, and thusly my journey begins...

    by thefirerises

    Watched 'Rose' and 'The End of the World' yesterday... wasn't particularly impressed. There were certainly some strong moments in there, don't get me wrong, and I like some of the stuff Eccleston's doing, but Davies' campness is just riding all over everything. Most notable is the soundtrack - apart from the 'Rose' theme itself, everything else is borderline unlistenable. Not only is the original music trashy, but damn, WHAT is going on with those musical choices? BRITNEY? Hate to say it, but I don't watch sci-fi to hear Britney Spears tracks. Apart from that, I have noticed many a solid seed being planted though, although obviously not all of them were intended to lead to anything. Nevertheless, good to see that the Face of Boe turns up really damn early in proceedings, even if he's essentially just a cameo in End. The CGI is also grating, but I just hold my breath and hope for the best story-wise when it gets really bad. Maaaaaaan that Zoe Wanamaker character looked terrible. It was like I was watching an FMV sequence from one of the old Myst games or something. Anyway, I'm in it for the long haul now. Will probably drop back in Friday by Friday just to vent my thoughts on wherever it is I'm up to.

  • July 30, 2011, 10 a.m. CST

    The Kipper of Traken

    by Seph_J

    lol

  • July 30, 2011, 10:02 a.m. CST

    It would be awesome if Ferguson played a villian next year!

    by Rebel Scumb

  • July 30, 2011, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Karen G has to be one of the weirdest girls I've ever seen

    by Rebel Scumb

    One of the hottest to, but she's so figgity and awkward, it's like watching a bicycle accident in slowmotion that never ends. But strangely, adds to her attractiveness.

  • July 30, 2011, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Also Gland of Omega has an awesome username

    by Rebel Scumb

  • July 30, 2011, 10:19 a.m. CST

    Thanks again for doing these Docbacks Merrick!

    by Rebel Scumb

    If I wasn't a doctor who fan already, these conversations would most likely convert me.

  • July 30, 2011, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Paradise Towers

    by Dreamfasting

    Paradise Towers is in many ways similar to the modern story Gridlock - the same sort of collection of ecclectic characters coming in and out of the frame. It's an interesting midpoint between old and new Who. You have high volume background music overwhelming the foreground scene and there was a sort of over the top chaos to it all. But the modern series is so much more polished in in detail, tone and pacing than the classic series. I have to admit I'm not a big fan of watching celebrity interviews. I like to see an actor's work on screen - its distracting to see them out of character yet be caught in their wierd limbo where they are themselves yet still being expected to feed the imaginations of fans.

  • July 30, 2011, 10:33 a.m. CST

    Timothy Dalton's Doctor

    by vermicelliknid

    When was that again?

  • July 30, 2011, 1:14 p.m. CST

    SYLVESTER McCOY PHOTO CAPTION.... part 1

    by sam jacksons wig

    (Mel)- I thought you said by sucking this my future as a companion was secure????

  • July 30, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    S

    by sam jacksons wig

  • July 30, 2011, 1:17 p.m. CST

    SYLVESTER McCOY PHOTO CAPTION part 2...

    by sam jacksons wig

    (Doc)- Keep going! From this angle I'm imagining you're Karen Gillan....

  • July 30, 2011, 1:19 p.m. CST

    SYLVESTER McCOY PHOTO CAPTION part 3

    by sam jacksons wig

    (Doc) The fans wanted me to do something that would shut you up for five minutes.....

  • July 30, 2011, 1:20 p.m. CST

    sam jackson's wig

    by Angry Mike

    No crap the BBC killed the show. But they wouldn't have if the show was any good in the first place. And as far there being two eras of McCoy's tenure, there definitely were: Bad and worse. You decide which was which.

  • July 30, 2011, 1:21 p.m. CST

    What if the eyepatch is because she only has one eye???

    by sam jacksons wig

    Well, it's a possibility, isnt it???

  • ...the trailer has us looking the wrong way!!! (which is more than likely the intent.)

  • July 30, 2011, 1:39 p.m. CST

    angry mike......

    by sam jacksons wig

    For a show that is no good it has managed to survive nearly 50 years. It's no secret about its chequered history; even I switched off during McCoy having endured Colin Baker after Baker and Davison, and I admit that I really couldn't stand him in the role and found his companions tragic (I lived through Mel without poisoning myself but Ace made me want to swallow crushed glass ( a sentement not shared by most others of my esteemed DocBackers)), but by that stage the BBC had all but decided that enough was enough. No investment, no love, and ultimately cancellation. The show was crap because the BBC wanted to make it crap for that very reason. Before McCoy though, there is a wealth of fantastic storytelling and larger than life characters. Trying to convince you if you have no love for the show will be nigh on impossible, so I wont even try. You either like it or you dont. You decide which is which.

  • July 30, 2011, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Alot of WHO love at San Diego CC this year! Check out the link....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...and see some of the costumes intrepid WHO fans (amongst others) created to show their love!!! http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=31578 Excellent!!!! (I particularly think the guy dressed as David Tennants Doc is fantastic!!!)

  • July 30, 2011, 2:08 p.m. CST

    SYLVESTER McCOY PHOTO CAPTION part 4

    by sam jacksons wig

    (Doc)- Chris Tarrant never did this to me on TisWas........

  • July 30, 2011, 2:12 p.m. CST

    thanks for the Docback Merrick

    by Chris

    Started watching during Tom Baker's tenure. Through the years I've seen most of the earlier episodes didn't see much of McCoy's on. I've introduceed my 10 year old to the newer episodes and it's great to have something we can talk about and be able to explain some things to him.

  • July 30, 2011, 2:25 p.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig

    by Angry Mike

    The rules about personal attacks on this forum, which i support, hinder me from saying what my initial reaction was to your last post. However... Did you even READ my last posts??????? Go back and read my second post, which would be the 32nd one down from the top, and then you can feel silly in your last response.

  • Over a mistake, an error, a glitch??? Wouldn't it have been easier to just say "You're wrong, matey- I love the earlier show," to which I would have replied "My bad!!!" Instead, we get a veiled threat. My response was to your statement " But they wouldn't have if the show was any good in the first place." I took that to mean the ENTIRE show and not just McCoys. My bad. No, I don't feel silly. You weren't clear.

  • I have been reading the posts from this new guy and, well, I'll just say thank you and keep it at that.

  • July 30, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    axcel- no worries my friend.......

    by sam jacksons wig

    ... I guess we both feel the same way, but are being uniquely polite about it. Besides, I have minced words with V'Shael previously so I am prepared for anything!!!!!! ;)) If we let others affect how we feel about the DocBack, then they win. I have news for them...... they won't. I daresay that if mediagold had not had his comments edited and his ass banned, the conversation I would be having would be completly different. This is OUR home! And anyone is welcome as long as they play nice and fit in. There is no place for "anger...."

  • July 30, 2011, 3:56 p.m. CST

    indeed

    by Seph_J

    the very values of the Whoniverse itself apply here in this docback. Acceptance, tolerance, and decency.

  • July 30, 2011, 3:57 p.m. CST

    angry mike

    by Merrick

    I'm thinking some miscommunication may be happening because of the *tone* of your posts - which I have noted and am watching, by the way. I fully encourage you to voice *any* opinions you may have, but sometimes one's tone can make or break how well subsequent communication unfolds. I'm fully willing to concede that, in writing, affixing tonal intent to someone's message is often downright impossible, and/or can be imprecise at best. We don't *know* the people on the other side of these messages, we don't *know* the voices or mannerisms of participants in this forum, so all we have to go on is the wording...as presented...of any given post. And, as esoteric as it may seem, I long ago learned that wording is quite capable of carrying a "vibe." When I read your posts - I 'get' what you're saying and imagine there's a very substantive conversation that can arise from your perspective. But I also sense a degree of hostility and bitterness - whether this is intended or not - and neither quality will be met warmly or constructively in Docbacks. Just something to think about. So many paths to choose...

  • July 30, 2011, 4:06 p.m. CST

    For those of you who missed crash of the elysium.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...it is coming back in 2012 in London as part of the olympic games celebration!!! And the thing that pissed me off???? I missed Matt Smith by ONE FUCKING DAY!!!! He was there in person on 16th July, and I went on 17th July!!!! BASTARD!!!!!!! However, the experience was just awesome, and I thank punchdrunk for the show, their kindness and enthusiasm whilst myself and my wife acted like giddy 10 year olds, and my kids acted like responsible adults. (my 10 year old daughter rolling her eyes as, in tears of joy, I accepted my letter from the Doctor. Which is now framed and adorns my hallway.) In 2012, I shall be there once more. The ride is amazing, and the weeping angels ARE FUCKING TERRIFYING!!!!!

  • July 30, 2011, 4:09 p.m. CST

    seph_j

    by Merrick

    Still happening?

  • ...can you please ensure that you have the same internet capabilities when it comes to my bank, and add about £250,000,000 to my account?????

  • July 30, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    merrick- thank you, sir. Again I salute you. And I'd do it again!!!!....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...but that will be it....... ;)))

  • July 30, 2011, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Mueller smooth toffee rice is cooooooool....

    by sam jacksons wig

  • July 30, 2011, 4:22 p.m. CST

    ...but not as cooool as toblerones...

    by sam jacksons wig

  • July 30, 2011, 4:32 p.m. CST

    I <3 Doctor WHO

    by GeptaOO1

    Hugs and Jelly babies for EVERYONE, Can you image a show you love getting better and better? I can't wait for August 27th... Torchwood is helping my pass the time...... This Current series is WAY different, but I still love it... I have a general wondering though... So... A lot of the Doctor Who promos for series 6, were very Doctor Who is coming to America theme.... yet since the 2 part season premiere, they have not returned to America.... The new advertisement for the 2nd half of the season features a Pyramid in the background...... skip to Torchwood.... POSSIBLE SPOILER Torchwood which takes place for the most part in the United States, and some kind of spinning triangle/pyramid image representing the bad guys? Is there going to be some sort of crossover? Please let it be so.... That's all for now? Any Thoughts on this? -GeptaOO1

  • July 30, 2011, 4:38 p.m. CST

    mavalcar - I would be suprised, but it wouldn't be out of the question....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...you never know. However, I will say NO. Just coincidence. :(

  • Thank you for your very active role in this weekly Docback and, for creating it.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:15 p.m. CST

    Merrick- i have the same problem as seph......

    by sam jacksons wig

    I can block, blacklist, spam et.c , which whilst nice is something I really don't want to have here at AICN. I am merely happy to post. Can you resolve???? SJW.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Fixed.... ta!!!

    by sam jacksons wig

  • Thought you'd want to know that it doesn't look like it's fixed yet.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:34 p.m. CST

    re: those phantom admin controls

    by Merrick

    Just off the phone with tech folks - the problem is known and they're working on a quick resolve (apparently an elusive fix). IN THEORY these phantom admin buttons don't afford unauthorized users any actual functionality, so even though you're seeing them they will supposedly not work. By way of troubleshooting, if the Dockback admin controls (Blacklist, Spam, etc.) pop up on your screen again, feel free to try to delete ***THIS PARTICULAR MESSAGE*** - and let me know if you're successful. If, by chance, you can actually delete my post - you we'll need to know, and you won't be banned or anything form following this request. Thanks a ton for letting me know...efforting resolution now.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:38 p.m. CST

    AngryMike - one of the problems is

    by DoctorTom

    you stated that the writing during Sylvester McCoy's era was poor and that that statement was a fact. It's far from being a fact, it's only your opinion. If you look at the Doctor Who Monthly Top 200 poll covering everything up to almost all of the Tennant era (not including Waters of Mars or End of Time) you'll see that some of the McCoy stories are rated quite highly and are popular. As people have mentioned, Curse of Fenric, Remembrance of the Daleks and Ghost Light are ones that many people consider classics. Survival is practically a prototype blueprint for the Eccleston era. The claims about poor writing certainly aren't universal for McCoy's stories, which means that it isn't a fact. <br> General opinion is also that the era with Ace is much better than the season with Mel. It's not a case of 'bad' and 'worse'.

  • July 30, 2011, 5:43 p.m. CST

    Watching THE MIND ROBBER today

    by I am not a number

    Haven't seen it in a while, but it's one of my favorite Troughton stories (though Zoe needing to be repeatedly convinced that each monster is not real was rather grating). Still, kudos on the use of stop motion for Medusa's hair. I wish they'd revisit The Land of Fiction again (maybe that's where they are in the clip with the minotaur and the clown sitting on the bed).

  • I think they've had about as much crossover as they're going to have, just with the brief mention of the Doctor. They might not even get into Jack having been a former Time Agent (unless the surprise baddie turns out to be James Marstars or someone else from the 'bad old days'). The pyramid shaped logo shouldn't be tying in with the pyramid that they're showing in the new promotional poster for Who. I would imagine that Starz wouldn't want the Doctor Who stuff creeping in. If there's going to be a real crossover, I'd expect it to happen in Doctor Who...or to be a short one-off charity thing like the Children in Need shorts. (And, I would suspect that we'd see a Who/Sherlock crossover for Children in Need before we get a Torchwood/Who thing there). Of course, there's always the faint possibility of that type of crossover occurring to film a "memoiral" for Lis Sladen and/or Nick Courtney.

  • I wasn't expecting a reply post from you 2 minutes after my post - that's some high duty monitoring you're doing. <br> Thanks for all the work you're putting in for the DocBacks, it's really enjoyable being able to gather here every week!

  • July 30, 2011, 5:56 p.m. CST

    I am not a number - the Land of Fiction

    by DoctorTom

    Have you read the Virgin New Adventures? They've had one that involved the Land of Fiction - SPOILER You're not supposed to know it was the Land of Fiction so if you don't want that twist ruined for the book go down to the next paragraph SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER the novel was Conundrum by Steve Lyons END SPOILER <br> <br> There was another that had energy from that world tapped - Head Games (also by Steve Lyons) There's a crystal formed of fictional energy, and also involved the 'new' Master of the Land of Fiction established in the earlier book. This one was a great book - a duplicate Doctor created by the Master of the Land of Fiction, fictional companions, Mel comes back and reacts to seeing how the Doctor has changed, and more goodness. (Plus, both novels have Bernice Summerfield in them, one of the best companions created for Doctor Who in any media)

  • July 30, 2011, 5:57 p.m. CST

    doctortom ...well said.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    My opinion (and it IS just my opinion) is that McCoy was the weakest Doctor, and his companions were hideous and added nothing to the programme. That statement IS based on surviving Mel and bowing out when Ace arrived (her character arc I just hated at that time, missing the Wolves of Fenric and her "reveal") and as yet having to revisit his stories. I do, however, respect the views of every DocBacker who likes McCoy and his take, the problem lies with me and my tates. I guess Time and the Rani still sticks in my craw.... what an awful mess and a hideous introduction!!!! Hope you are well my friend!!!

  • July 30, 2011, 6:05 p.m. CST

    doctortom (potential spoilers)

    by I am not a number

    I have read both of those books. I loved CONUNDRUM, especially the revelation that the LAND OF FICTION was created by The Gods of Ragnarok, which ties in pretty well when you watch THE MIND ROBBER. Lots of fun seeing the Doctor mess with the new Master of the Land and influencing the narrative. One of the best Virgin books.

  • A speculative toblerone for the whoever can tell me where that quote is from! And no Merrick, it ain't happening anymore. I think I passed the test though - I didn't "blacklist" anyone, nor interfere in previous events. I think I proved myself a very responsible time meddler!!

  • July 30, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Sarah Jane Adventures

    by GeptaOO1

    Any Idea when the 6 episodes of Series 5 are going to air? Wikipedia says October, but I trust wikipedia as much as I trust FOX not to cancel a TV show I love. Also when/where can I view Torchwood: Web of Lies? has it been released or aired? Thanks -GeptaOO1

  • July 30, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Quote is from Kinda, right?

    by I am not a number

  • July 30, 2011, 6:15 p.m. CST

    Sam, I'll agree with you on Time and the Rani

    by DoctorTom

    Season 24 was definitely enough to cause fear and loathing in the hearts of fans; I think some of that was residual carryover from BBC mandates about not having the level of violence that Colin Baker had in his first full year (Robert Holmes' story for the first part of Trial of a Time Lord seemed a bit weak at the end for the "comedy" bits for some of the bad guys when it seemed like Holmes really wanted a bit of the old ultraviolence then. Season 24 certainly built up a lot of bad feelings that had to be overcome in the subsequent seasons. <br> There's been one or two audios with Bonnie Langford that haven't been bad, but even Big Finish couldn't bring about the rehabilitation of Mel that they were able to accomplish with Colin's Doctor. (I think that deep down they realized it there and that was why Evelyn was created as a companion for Colin Baker - a pairing that works well on audio that the TV show would never have dared do back in the day.) I think that people who didn't care for McCoy would also find some very good audios done by him - I particularly like Shadow of the Scourge since it has Bernice Summerfield as well as Ace as a companion, and the first story with Hex joining as a companion was quite good. Colditz was another standout McCoy performance. <br> I think the big problem with the McCoy era (post season 24) is really that it seemed like BBC management had just given up on the show and didn't care any more (not J N-T or Andrew Cartmel, the 'suits' in management). Also, by this point the 25 minute format seemed to be getting more outdated; this was one of the smart moves that they addressed when Who came back. I will give credit to JNT and Cartmel for figuring out that if they were going to have only 14 episode seasons that they should do 2 3 parters and 2 4 parters instead of a 2 four parters and a 6 parter. It started pushing the energy of the show, and sometimes helped avoid the old 'episode 3 padding' problem that used to be around (or, in Pertwee's case, the 'episode 2,3,4 and 5 padding ;) ). <br> I'm doing well, thanks for asking! Hope you're doing the same!

  • July 30, 2011, 6:20 p.m. CST

    good quote, Seph_J

    by DoctorTom

    though I will say that Doctor Who actually did well underplaying that line in that usually after that type of statement you would usually expect a "BWAHAHAHAHA!" to come after. If Graham Crowden had been playing Hindle it would have been included.

  • July 30, 2011, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Mavalcar, answering your questions

    by DoctorTom

    I had heard October from some other places besides Wikipedia, so it wouldn't surprise me if that's when they show. It's also the same time of year they did the shows last year, so that makes it seem more plausible. <br> I haven't seen any of the Torchwood: Web of Lies episodes, but I've been told that they are available on iTunes. I think they're dropping 1 episode a week while Starz is showing the TV series.

  • July 30, 2011, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Doctortom, yeah....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ..I have said previously that audiences are completely different now and there is no room for the 25 minute weekly format anymore. Going back (a few) years I remember being completely pissed off as a kid waiting a whole frigging week to see the next episode of WHO. But back then 25 minutes seemed like a lifetime to me! The whole WHO ethos seemed wrong to me going from Baker to McCoy. As a fan who (at that time) had no real knowledge of the behind the scenes machinations STILL felt there was something bubbling underneath it all, and saw the writing on the wall. Dragonfire was the end of it all for me at that time. Goodbye Mel, hello Ace, goodbye samjacksonswig. I positively felt we had gone from bad to worse and that was that. I thank christ it only lasted for 3 episodes. Kane- useless. Death- useless and anti-climatical. I guess I missed McCoys second wind....

  • July 30, 2011, 6:59 p.m. CST

    i am not a number re: Land of Fiction...

    by Greg McCambley

    While it hasn't appeared back in the TV series (yet), the Land of Fiction was revisited in the DW novels Head Games and Conundrum. Both written by Steve Lyons, they featured the 7th Doctor. If you can track em down, you might give them a shot...

  • July 30, 2011, 7:04 p.m. CST

    seph_j: Truly a great line...

    by Greg McCambley

    ...but I think there are some other line deliveries which rank right up there as the best. They include: Anything spoken by Sutekh in Pyramids of Mars The Curse of Fenric - "We play the contest again, Time Lord..." Anyone else have any other favourites?

  • July 30, 2011, 7:12 p.m. CST

    You defend McCoy all you want, but....

    by Angry Mike

    the numbers prove me right. I stated I "like" McCoy as a Doctor in the past on these boards (I also met him once and he was a gentleman), but everything else around the show just went to pot by that time (for whatever reasons or excuses). If someone wants to argue and say such and such wasn't bad at all, that is their opinion (just as my likes and dislikes are mine), and as a fellow DW fan, I am actually glad to hear it. But you can't re-write history. The writing on the show started to dwindle a couple of years before McCoy took over (really, who thought it was cool when Ace cackled Professor every 5 mins?). And the folks at the BBC and more importantly, the viewers at the time, took notice and was cancelled. These are indisputable facts. Hey, I have guilty pleasures too, and I would take a bad episode over DW any day, say over the best Voyager episode. But call a spade a spade. If you dig on the McCoy’s, more power to you. But just don’t push ‘em on new fans if you really want to introduce them to what makes this show so magical. Genesis of the Dalkes Tomb of the Cybermen Inferno The Talons of Weng-Chiang Trhe Caves of Androzani This and a host of the newer episodes are what DW is all about.

  • July 30, 2011, 7:19 p.m. CST

    I grew up watching re-runs of Doctor Who on PBS

    by GeptaOO1

    Saturday Nights I was allowed to stay up super late and watch Doctor Who with my Dad. It was one of the few things my Dad and I did together. And The telethons... I even loved those..... anyone remember those? "Don't be a Dalek" Tom Baker was my favorite Doctor... back then.... Now I really like David and Matt, but I can't choose which one I like more because I think they are both FANTASTIC

  • July 30, 2011, 7:23 p.m. CST

    sam jackson's wig re: McCoy's second season...

    by Greg McCambley

    I'm sorry that you felt disillusioned after Dragonfire, though I totally understand your frustration. The literal cliffhanger ending to an episode would certainly be the end to many a fan's hopes for the future. For me, though, I was looking forward to season 25. The main reason was because of Silver Nemesis. I knew it was coming, and eagerly anticipated it. Imagine my surprise when the new season started and, instead of Cybermen, the Daleks triumphantly returned. I was hooked all over again...

  • July 30, 2011, 9:06 p.m. CST

    but, AngryMike, the numbers *do* prove you wrong

    by DoctorTom

    In the top 200 poll (covering all the pre-Matt Smith stories) - Remembrance of the Daleks was #14, the Curse of Fenric was #30, Ghost Light at #76, Survival #80. The highest ranking Colin Baker story was Vengeance of Varos at #124. <br> <br> I'll grant you that the season 24 stories didn't do as well, with Paradise Towers ranked at 192 and Time and the Rani at 198. Still, you have Timelash at 199 and The Twin Dilemna holding the bottom position at 200. <br> <br> This indicates that, if anything, the writing had taken an upturn in the final 2 years of the program. Having a story at #14, beating out "classics' like Evil of the Daleks, The Deadly Assassin, Power of the Daleks and Earthshock isn't going to be possible if the writing has gone to pot like you claim. If you look at the study, you see that it had gone to pot before, and was getting noticeably better. <br> <br> As to not pushing McCoy on old viewers, Remembrance of the Daleks, Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric hold their own with the episodes that you named. Remembrance of the Daleks especially has everything magical about Doctor Who that was in the best of Tom Baker episodes (and came 10 places higher in the poll than Tomb of the Cybermen). <br> <br> Also, you've completely missed the point of Merrick talking about Paradise Towers. It's a new DVD release. We're going to talk about the new DVD releases here in the DocBacks. It doesn't matter whether they're ones that are good for new viewers or not - many of the ones that are good for new viewers have come out in the past decade or so. There's only a couple of years max left before they run out of classic Doctor Who stories to release. They've saved some good ones toward the end, and some lesser ones. They're not just saving bad episodes (since Timelash and The Twin Dilemma have already come out and aren't the last 2 releases to be scheduled. You are mistaking talking about the current DVD releases with making a list of the best Doctor Who to introduce a new viewer to. I don't see how you equate Merrick's statement 'Quite solid, but not stellar. ' as 'THIS is the Doctor Who episode to show people who don't watch the series in order to bring them in.' <br> <br> It's okay to have your opinions that you don't like McCoy, but I think you're trying to damn his whole era on the stories from his first season. We don't say that all John Pertwee Who is bad based on The Mutants, Planet of the Daleks and Death to the Daleks, or that all Tom Baker is bad because of The Creature From the Pit, Meglos and Underworld.

  • July 30, 2011, 9:11 p.m. CST

    PBS was great back then, Mavalcar

    by DoctorTom

    I started when they started showing the Tom Baker stories 1 episode at a time, complete with Howard Da Silva narration at the beginning and for the next episode clip they included. Tom Baker's still my sentimental favorite, but I'm liking Matt Smith just about as much (I give Matt a slight nod over David Tennant, though I do like Tennant's work with Who and have him just slightly behind Tom and Matt). Watching The Eleventh Hour for the first time was, to me, like discovering Doctor Who with Tom Baker all over again, there was a definite magic present.

  • July 31, 2011, 1:26 a.m. CST

    Meglos was quality!!!!!!...............

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...erm....... I'll get my coat.......

  • July 31, 2011, 1:44 a.m. CST

    Torchwood: Web of Lies

    by GeptaOO1

    I've looked on itunes, and it's not listed. There's very little information about it on imdb or wiki. Youtube seems to have the first episode, but nothing more..... Anyone else having better luck? back to Doctor Who.... I wish netflix would have EVERYTHING available for streaming..... I want to watch it all in order..

  • July 31, 2011, 2:47 a.m. CST

    mavalcar - it's nowhere. 1 ep on I tunes. 1 ep on youtube.

    by sam jacksons wig

  • July 31, 2011, 3:06 a.m. CST

    All Things Who

    by GeptaOO1

    I've seen most of Doctor Who, Everything of Torchwood that is aired so far, and pretty much all of Sarah Jane Adventures.... And I've liked pretty much everything I've seen... How is the K9 show that's on Disney i think? I've never seen that particular show, is it worth checking out? I've also never seen any of the Doctor Who Comic relief sketches... I don't know where I would be able to view them? are those sketches canon? I finally found Torchwood: Web of Lies on iTunes, apparently its under games, so you have to download an app, you can't just download the episodes.... and apparently only 1 episode is out? I thought there was supposed to be an episode released each week to go along with Miracle Day.... Anybody out there know anything more? Much Appreciated.

  • http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=doctor+who+comic+relief&aq=f SJW.

  • July 31, 2011, 4:22 a.m. CST

    Regarding sketches being canon- children in need, specifically....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...David Tennant and Peter Davison happened the moments after series 3 ended and just before the titanic crashed through the doors of the tardis, opening series 4 (Xmas special with Kylie Minogue.) It was called time crash, and you can check it out at the link below, as well as the others. Enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=doctor+who+children+in+need&aq=f SJW.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi92ivJlW1Q Then make up your own mind, my friend. SJW.

  • July 31, 2011, 9:06 a.m. CST

    Yes, the Children In Need Sketches Are Canon

    by HornOrSilk

    Even Dimensions in Time ;)

  • Even "The Curse of Fatal Death"?

  • July 31, 2011, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Curse of the Fatal Death and Time Crash

    by Mister Vertue

    One is canon, one is not (sadly), although both are totally brilliant! If you haven't seen either of them, you really should hunt them down.

  • July 31, 2011, 10:39 a.m. CST

    MOV

    by Seph_J

    but what about Dimensions in Time???

  • the fact that the title is '...the Curse of Fatal Death' NOT 'curse of THE fatal death'.

  • July 31, 2011, 10:47 a.m. CST

    Doctor Who and Torchwood

    by Mister Vertue

    Chances of seeing Captain Jack in Doctor Who = very, very good indeed. Doesn't mean it'll definitely happen, but it's certainly not impossible. Chances of seeing The Doctor in Torchwood = absolutely not going to happen. Ever. At least that's the case while Russell is in charge of Torchwood and 'The Moff' is in charge of Doctor Who. They've discussed it and have both agreed that they don't want younger viewers crossing over to Torchwood with it's more adult themes, which is why it was perfectly fine for Matt to appear in The Sarah Jane Adventures. I don't see either of them leaving their respective shows in the near future, so sorry to break the hearts of Torchwood fans expecting to see The Doctor popping up over there, but there's more chance of The Valeyard popping up in this year's Christmas special than The Doc appearing alongside Jack and Gwen (not really, but you know what I mean).

  • July 31, 2011, 10:58 a.m. CST

    seph_j

    by Mister Vertue

    Yes, you're right of course, it *is* The Curse of Fatal Death and *not* Curse of the Fatal Death, I do apologise. And I call myself a fan. I also have another admission of guilt. I had to look up the word 'Lammasteen' in my earlier post. That's the joy of getting old. Oh, and Dimensions in Time is most definitely 100% canon. It has the Mitchell brothers and Pat Butcher in it, how could it not be canon? Okay, I'm severely lacking sleep (as evidenced above) so it might be best for me to take a nap now. Wake me up on Boxing Day please.

  • While I thought it was a very good and very fun to watch, it was a Doctor Who parody, it was making fun of (in a good way, of course.) everything Doctor Who, the companions, the regenerations, the danger, the Master (Jonathan Pryce was fantastic in the role, playing way over the top!). Like MOV said, you really need to see it!

  • July 31, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Comic Relief/Children In Need

    by Andy Buckle

    I really like most of the charity episodes. "Time Crash" is fantastic - I'm a sucker for multi-Doctor stories - and "The Curse of Fatal Death is great fun. I loved the recent "Space" and "Time" spots, and there was also the one that showed the immediate aftermath of the Eccleston/Tennant regeneration. "Dimensions in Time"... er...um... interesting but flawed is about as kind as I can be. It was originally broadcast in some weird 3D process, as I remember. Not good.

  • What about past companions and villains/creatures popping up on Torchwood every once and a while? I'd be down with seeing the Master on there...anyone else agree?

  • July 31, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    MOV - The Valeyard's appearing in the Christmas special?

    by DoctorTom

    heh, that might catch the attention of the casual DocBackers. <br> <br> For some reason when I read what you typed I suddenly had a mental picture of the Christmas special being a musical, with the Valeyard as the bad guy. Maybe the Doctor gets to reuse the Charlie Chaplain formalwear we've seen in the trailer for the 2nd half of Season 6 (Hell, now I have a Young Frankenstein-induced mental picture of Matt Smith and Morbius doing 'Puttin' on the Ritz')

  • July 31, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    Sam, thank you for the Meglos post

    by DoctorTom

    I just about did a spit take when I read it. Thanks for the laugh!

  • July 31, 2011, 1:05 p.m. CST

    McCoy era

    by Kevin Bolinger

    He wasnt bad, not up there with my favorites, but he had some good stories. Am I the only one who found the lead clown in The Greatest Show in the Universe to be very very creepy?

  • July 31, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    Redeyes, I agree that you could see some crossover of villains

    by DoctorTom

    If it hadn't become a Starz coproduction. Also, with them wanting to do the 1 story season over multiple episodes that they'd be more likely to make their own nemeses rather than borrowing ones from Doctor Who. During the first two seasons, though, I could easily have seen them using old-school Silurians in Torchwood (the ones that trigger the racial memories of the humans that have them scared of the Silurians). Now, with them returned in Who, I don't see it happening. <br> I don't see the Master showing up in Torchwood though even though there's a Torchwood link. <br> I suspect that if there's going to be a crossover, it will be slightly more subtle. I could see a company like International Electromatrix popping up in Torchwood with some agenda of their own. I don't see the Cybermen per se showing up if they do, but there could be subtle hints that IE is doing something based on Cybermen technology that had been around before and are adapting it for something else. Heck, they could reuse the 'sleep' broadcast idea from The Invasion for something else, maybe showing it to be weaponized for broadcasting in limited areas or something. I would see something like that happening before I would see them using a monster from Who (although I wouldn't rule out Zygons appearing again in either show, with them tying the Zygons in to global warming as part of the scheme to flood the Earth to Zygonaform the planet).

  • July 31, 2011, 1:18 p.m. CST

    Curse of Fatal Death is Canon

    by HornOrSilk

    Wasn't it Moffat who said every story is canon, but time is rewritten? ;)

  • He was meant to be. Of course, most clowns come off as creepy. The Matt Smith clown comes off as somewhat creepy in the trailer. I can see Matt's Doctor saying 'Clowns are creepy. Clowns are not cool.'

  • I don't know if the Moff was referring to just the television broadcasts or if he's referring to all the stories in all the media.

  • July 31, 2011, 1:24 p.m. CST

    I just watched The Visitation

    by Rebel Scumb

    This was a great 5th Doctor adventure, the monster was especially good. Part of me thinks I may have seen bits and pieces of this as a very young child when it first aired, something about the scenes in the monsters lair felt like something out of a half forgotten nightmare. There's a lot of Tegan love (or lust) in the docback. But what about Nyssa? Sure she's not an uber hottie, but she's certainly got that mousy adorability going for her. And I always like when the doctor has really competent companions. Up next I have EARTHSHOCK & THE AWAKENING to watch

  • July 31, 2011, 1:26 p.m. CST

    Torchwood's future not assured

    by DoctorTom

    I hadn't seen it mentioned here yet, but Starz isn't willing to commit yet to more Torchwood. There's an article about it at <br> www.doctorwhonews.net <br> It sounds like Starz wants Davies to stay around for another series if they're going to commission it, and Davies wants to get out of writing sf for now (understandable, since he's been at it since 2005 and sounds like he wants to flex a different set of writer's musles). Of course his comments had been made months ago and the Starz comments were recent. I don't know if RTD's attitude has changed given what Starz is saying, or if Starz is going to use RTD leaving as an excuse to not worry about bringing it back.

  • July 31, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Torchwood

    by Kevin Bolinger

    So far Miracle day has been good, though the end of ep 4 was very disturbing, some fates are truly worse then death...I still shudder thinking about that junkyard. I am not sure how it is doing in the ratings though, at first I heard it was not doing to well.

  • July 31, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Torchwood

    by Kevin Bolinger

    So far Miracle day has been good, though the end of ep 4 was very disturbing, some fates are truly worse then death...I still shudder thinking about that junkyard. I am not sure how it is doing in the ratings though, at first I heard it was not doing to well.

  • July 31, 2011, 2:12 p.m. CST

    Do you think there will be aliens in miracle day??

    by Rebel Scumb

    I just watched part 4 last night and it occured to me this is the first torchwood story I can think of that has had no alien involvement yet. Infact that could be said of all new-who, and even about 99% of classic who. It's been good so far. I keep wondering if the villians will turn out to be someone or something we've seen before

  • several months pregnant when the TW gang got to LA?

  • July 31, 2011, 2:14 p.m. CST

    doctortom

    by HornOrSilk

    From what I understand, he said "everything" from the books to the audios to anything on TV.

  • July 31, 2011, 2:35 p.m. CST

    Have we all seen the Dr. Who Tube Map?

    by BiggusDickus

    Forgive the repost if you have, but if not, fill yer boots here: http://www.crispian.net/DoctorWho/DrWhoTubeMap.html Nicely done IMHO...

  • July 31, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by Seph_J

    Nyssa has always been in my top three hottest companions. Those big puffy shoulders, that bouncy hair and that absolutely wonderful butt.... all adds up to one perfect figure of a woman. And she has attitude to, which is always good. And on the new trailer, hang on... not sure if anyone has mentioned this before... but LAKE SILENCIO?? Ehhh??!

  • July 31, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    Time can be rewritten

    by sunspot_mike

    Remember in Pyramids of Mars where the Doctor materializes the TARDIS in an alternate future Earth that's wrecked? I always thought that part was a super scary way to show the consequences of what would happen if the Doctor just ran away and abandoned us. The idea of messing with timelines sounds awesome. And I'm a sucker for alternate history. And I'm enjoying Miracle Day. It's got some good parts and Mekhi Pfifer is obviously enjoying his role a lot. I would too if I got to have a love scene with Señora, MD. The scene with Oswald and Jack was well done, and there's some good jokes, I'm hoping for a little more action and some freaking aliens pretty soon though!

  • July 31, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST

    Lake Silencio: I caught that to! And as for Nyssa...

    by Rebel Scumb

    I completely agree, and it takes a really good looking woman to pull off a stately puffy shouldered outfit like that Plus she has those striking catlike eyes. I only have about half of the Davison run currently (and not consecutive episodes), when does she end up departing?

  • July 31, 2011, 3:52 p.m. CST

    sunspot Mike

    by Rebel Scumb

    I keep wondering what the average american viewer who has never seen or heard of the BBC version of TW, and thinks this is a 'new show' makes of TW:MD. I mean not that they couldn't find it good, but there are all these minor references to things that must seem really out of place, or the fact that the lead female is some welsh actress they've never heard of before. I've always felt TW had a lot of potential as a series but it hasn't quite got there for me, although this is the closest so far, if part 5 is good then I will be fully onboard. I did like most of Children of Earth, up to Iantos death, but after that felt it went massively downhill (for me). I always think the show should be less X-files, and more Hellboy2, there should just be lots of weird alien shit everywhere and it's all just another day for them. Intead of torchwood having to be so secretive, it would be cooler if the public just knew about them. After all on new-who there have been so many worldwide recognized alien events now, they could go that wrote my actual favorite moment, the one I think is the closest to what I would like torchwood to be, is the opening of series 2 with the fishmonster driving the car, then TW team zooms by and the old lady just says 'blood torchwood!!'

  • July 31, 2011, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Lake Silencio

    by DoctorTom

    Moffat had made an offhand mention to Lake Silencio in one of his Production Notes in Doctor Who Magazine somewhere around the time Season 6 started to air. It sounded like something we'd see at one point.

  • July 31, 2011, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Rebel Scumb

    by Seph_J

    Looks like you're drawing up next to me. I'm doing the epic 'An Unearthly Child' right up to 'A Good Man Goes to War' chronological run, and I just finished 'The Visitation' last night. I'm just about to start Black Orchid as we speak. I've seen them all before, but never chronologically. Nyssa seems to duck out occasionally, like in Kinda, but if I recall, she hangs on until Terminus. And damn, is she hot. Any theories on the 'Lake Silencio' malarky?

  • July 31, 2011, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Rebel - Nyssa

    by DoctorTom

    She leaves at the end of Terminus (the 2nd of the Black Guardian Trilogy).

  • July 31, 2011, 5:27 p.m. CST

    seph_j & doctortom re: Nyssa

    by Rebel Scumb

    Seph_j: I actually watched black orchid and visitation in reverse order because I've seen black orchid before, and not very long ago, so I just wanted to test out the dvd and make sure it played, but also had some dishes to do, so I had it on in the background. where as I really wanted to give Visitation my full attention since I hadn't seen it before. I'm unfortunately not going in order at all though, I just keep buying classic who dvds whenever amazon has them on sale (and based on which ones appeal to me the most or were most highly recommended on docbacks) My previous purchase was Horror of fang rock, The 2 Doctors, and Rememberance of the Daleks, so really jumped around This most recent one happened to be 4 Davison adventures. Right now my main goals are to get all the Davison stories since as far as I know only he and Colin Baker have all of their episodes out on dvd (and CB's stuff is of very low priority to me) so I'm looking forward to more Nyssa!! I also decided I want to get all of Leila's stories with Tom Baker, as not only do I like her as a companion, but so far her adventures have been my favorite of the 4th Doctor era. I hate to slight Sara Jane, but I just find the Leila stuff better, and for me what really makes SJ interesting is the fact that she comes back in new Who (I'm in no way slightling Liz Sladen's contribution or iconography, it's just my personal preference) I also want to get more Pertwee stuff as he's my favorite of the classic doctors I'd also like to round out more of my McCoy stuff with the second half of his run. Doctortom: Thanks! The black guardian trilogy is one I plan to pick up next time I see it on sale. I want to grab the 'beneath the surface' set as well so I can get the 2 Pertwee adventures and the one davison one all together.

  • July 31, 2011, 5:28 p.m. CST

    With Series 6 part 2, I'm strongly considering...

    by Rebel Scumb

    just waiting for the blu-ray to come out so I can watch all the episodes together. I find Dr. Who is one of those shows where I enjoy the episodes more when I can watch a bunch back to back. On the other hand, I have zero will power, so I will likely cave and watch them when they air in a few weeks So basically this post was pointless. But I'll click 'post' anyways

  • July 31, 2011, 6 p.m. CST

    Leela is my favourite companion

    by Stegman84

    Unless you count The Brig, that is. Louise Jameson just had fantastic onscreen chemistry with Tom Baker, regardless of any issues they may have had initially off screen. And it also didn't hurt that Leela had a pretty damn strong run of stories overall, with only a couple of weaker efforts in my opinion. I'm particularly fond of Image of the Fendahl, Horror of Fang Rock, Robots of Death, and Talons of Weng Chiang, but I also quite like both The Sun Makers, and Face of Evil as well. Definitely a shame she didn't stick around a bit longer, but such is life (and Doctor Who) I guess.

  • July 31, 2011, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Rebel Scumb & Nyssa

    by veteran_of_mu

    RS, wait till you get to Terminus. Nyssa spends most of the episode in a slip and a mini-skirt. Then she removes the mini-skirt. A seminal moment in my youth ...

  • July 31, 2011, 6:05 p.m. CST

    I'm 'earthshocked' by the end of Earthshock!

    by Rebel Scumb

    Did not expect them to kill off Adric like that! Awesome stuff and tying the ending in with the destruction of the dinosaurs was great!

  • July 31, 2011, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Rebel, those aren't bad sets to get

    by DoctorTom

    The Black Guardian trilogy is good overall, even though the first one threw the dating of UNIT adventures into a tizzy (Mawdryn Undead vs. what Sarah Jane said in Pyramids of Mars). Pertwee I run hot and cold on - I like him as a Doctor but he has some stories that are extremely padded. The Beneath the Surface set has two decent Pertwee stories, though. And a Davison story with a pantomime horse (a story that's let down by the production and, shall we say, interesting choices for some of the lead actors) The Davison story's still enjoyable, and I found it a pleasant diversion when I first watched it, but it wasn't up there with the likes of Earthshock, Snakedance or Kinda. (Hmmm, that ties in with Paradise Towers - production and some acting choices hindering the story, when I started talking about it I didn't know I'd tie it back in with the DVD reviews for this week). <br> <br> I agree with you about Leela. I liked Sarah Jane (having started watching with Sarah Jane and Harry Sullivan as the companions - I kind of wish they could have kept Harry around for another season or two), but actually preferred Leela. The first 3 stories with her are the best since it seemed like Holmes and Hinchcliffe were actually going ahead with a character arc for her with the Doctor educating her. The Sun Makers is the other new DVD out next week and has Leela in it; it's well worth getting just for Holmes writing it after having to deal with the tax men and sending up the whole tax code system in the show.

  • July 31, 2011, 6:07 p.m. CST

    Leela

    by Rebel Scumb

    I have Horror of Fang Rock, Robots of Death, and Talons of Weng Chiang and thought them all among the best of classic Who. They seem to be the tone that Moffat is trying most to emulate

  • but not only are the robots in VotD the same make as the tRoD robots, but there is actually a part where the doctor references the titanic in tRoD and the crew ask 'what is the titanic' so I'm not sure if RTD planned it this way, but you could construe that that culture of future humans having heard about the titanic from the doctor then got the idea to build the space titanic from VoD

  • July 31, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Rebel, about Seaseon 6 part 1 and 2

    by DoctorTom

    I picked up the 1st part of Season 6 on DVD, but noticed how there were few extras on it. What I'd recommend for that (and you might want to consider it for the 2nd part as well) is to get the episodes on iTunes or get a season pass on Amazon to watch them to tide you over until a complete season 6 set chock full of extras comes out. <br> See, your post wasn't useless after all! You're able to get some advice from the other people here that you can take with the usual grain of salt.

  • July 31, 2011, 6:09 p.m. CST

    caractacuspotts, re: Nyssa in Terminus

    by Rebel Scumb

    Sounds hot!

  • July 31, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    On the future of Torchwood

    by Stegman84

    Honestly, after watching the first two episodes I pretty much came to the conclusion that I highly doubted that we'd get another (US) season after this one. Basically because it's just not a very American show, it is still very much a British sci-fi show in tone and feeling, it just has some US gloss, cast members, and locations added to it. But it still mostly feels like a british show (and personally I find that a good thing), but because of that fact, I just don't see a US network helping fund more of the same, short of it being a massive ratings hit. I just think the fact that it doesn't feel americanised enough (from a US network perspective) will really count against it in the long run. But hey, I had my doubts that we'd even get this season, so pretty much anything we get is gravy these days. And so if the show finds a way to go on, cool, and if not, it had a good and varied run, and I personally quite enjoyed the ride, despite a few bumps along the way.

  • July 31, 2011, 6:15 p.m. CST

    doctortom

    by Rebel Scumb

    Well I normally just torrent the episodes anyways (I don't consider it stealing as I will shell out the big bucks for the complete blu-ray set a few months later anyways) It's more just a matter of being able to watch them all in one go. But I could always torrent them and just wait until they pile up. I guess it will depend on how many other things I can distract myself with at the time. As for Beneath the surface. I've seen Doctor Who and Silurians, and the sea devils before, but I dont own them. I do really like the silurians one. The best cliffhanger escape of the entire 49 years of the show when the doctor resolves the cliffhanger by casually shaking the hand of the monster! I do agree about Pertwee's stories, but as a doctor I like him best I completely agree that Tom Baker has better stories, and I think if they had been reversed in order and Tom baker was the one driving around in the dandy costume in an old car stuck on earth with no tardis, and Pertwee was the one in the big scarf and travelling the galaxy to tons of surreal futuristic places, then there would never be any arguement at all about who the best doctor was. But as it is, things balance out nicely. I have so many Baker adventures now though that aside from getting all the Leela stuff, I'd rather branch out to some other areas of the classics, and while I have a bunch of Pertwee ones, I'd like a few more.

  • July 31, 2011, 6:17 p.m. CST

    stegman

    by Rebel Scumb

    Yeah i could see that. It seems like if they wanted to americanize TW they would just do a whole new cast and make it Torchwood in name only. But then, since most americans don't know the name, it would be easier to just make a generic X-files ripoff for less money.

  • July 31, 2011, 6:18 p.m. CST

    Earthshock: 'episode 5'

    by Rebel Scumb

    On the dvd there is a special feature of a 'fifth episode' which is all done in clamation where Adric survives the crash, only to be eaten by a T-rex I am assuming Adric was extremely hated by fans when these episodes were new? When will scifi shows learn that kids are annoying and should never ever be on these shows well Jake Sisko was pretty cool, but otherwise...

  • July 31, 2011, 6:58 p.m. CST

    Rebel - Pertwee vs. Baker

    by DoctorTom

    the problem with reversing Pertwee and Baker around is that I can't see Baker trying to play it as a serious James Bond. Tom Baker would still play it as, well, Tom Baker. Likewise, some of Pertwee's costumes came from his own wardrobe, so it would be far more likely that Pertwee would be the same. Still, I could see Tom Baker driving around in Bessie (we get a little of that in Robot). <br> <br> Now, it would be interesting to speculate on how many of the stories would have gone if it had been the Tom Baker Doctor. The cliffhanger for the Silurians wouldn't have been resolved with just a handshake, but probably with a 'would you like a jelly baby'? Having Tom Baker in the Peladon stories would have probably resulted in some comedy gold, at least for stories about what was happening behind the scenes. 'What, I have to play against a giant green willie wearing a shower curtain? Who wrote this whippet sh*t?'

  • The Face of Evil should be out sometime (I haven't heard that they've set a date for it to be out yet) has some classic lines in the story, and was a good vehicle for introducing Leela. You also get some good cliffhangers - the cliffhanger for episode 1 was a good WTF moment.

  • July 31, 2011, 7:04 p.m. CST

    doctortom

    by Rebel Scumb

    Yeah that's a good point, and I'm not saying they should reverse them (not that that is even possible) But I always see it as a huge compliment to Pertwee, that despite how man of his adventures are stuck on earth present day stories (which are by FAR my least favorite type of Dr. Who episodes) he still ends up as my favorite classic doctor. I understand why Tom Baker is so beloved, but I tend to believe personally athat a lot of that has more to do with the stories he was in, and the companions he had by comparison to Pertwee, who I think was handicapped a bit by the limited story settings.

  • It could get handed back to Chris Chibnall. Starz did take Camelot from him, after all. Whether it got more Americanized would depend on Starz' requirements for going ahead with another season. <br> <br> Personally, I'm hoping at some point we finally get to see the one person who was Torchwood Scotland. They could also do an entire season with the Torchwood branch that went missing showing up again, and having a Torchwood vs. Torchwood conflict on how the group should be run. (Then again, we can't rule out that they're not involved with this season's storyline. Jack seemed to know who might be behind this as being someone or someones he has met before.

  • July 31, 2011, 7:05 p.m. CST

    The Face of Evil.

    by Rebel Scumb

    Yeah I'm looking forward t that one coming out, I think it's the only one of hers that is currently unreleased.

  • July 31, 2011, 7:06 p.m. CST

    I can understand the Pertwee love

    by DoctorTom

    The writers did very well working around the limitations, and the first season with Liz Shaw in particular had strong stories overall. In some ways it would have been nice if some of the spikier relationship could have been maintained a little longer.

  • July 31, 2011, 7:07 p.m. CST

    Earthshock & James Cameron's ALIENS

    by Rebel Scumb

    I couldn't help but think that Cameron had seen this episode, and it partially inspired a lot of similar moments in ALIENS There's a shot of Tegan edging around a corridor with a gun that looks exactly like Ripley doing the same. And the whole beginning, a woman who is the only survivor of a massacre leading badass marines into a dark cave, with motion censor/life readings tracking them as they all get horribly killed... could just be a coincidence

  • July 31, 2011, 7:08 p.m. CST

    Also, Steven Moffat appears in the dvd feature documentary

    by Rebel Scumb

    But this was 2003, so he's just credited as 'Television writer/producer' Awesome to think that just a few years later he'd be taking the reigns Mark Gatiss is interview to

  • July 31, 2011, 7:11 p.m. CST

    doctortom re: torchwood

    by Rebel Scumb

    I guess for me what I really want from a Jack Harkness centric show is following his path to eventually becoming the Face of Boe. With more space trotting stuff and whatnot. The Face of Boe reveal at the end of series 3 is my favorite moment in all of new-who

  • July 31, 2011, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Pertwee was really good with the Brig as well

    by Rebel Scumb

    Great back and forth between them

  • July 31, 2011, 7:25 p.m. CST

    Sylvester McCoy & Bonnie Langford were fucking awful....

    by blackflowerX

    If you need a reason to loath Bonnie Langford, or feel the need to rip your own eyes out of your face watch this....<BR><BR> http://tinyurl.com/3bpuq5y

  • July 31, 2011, 8:27 p.m. CST

    blackflowerx ... two girls, no cup!

    by veteran_of_mu

    Aargh! If only I could rip my own neurons out of my skull!

  • July 31, 2011, 9:47 p.m. CST

    the 50th anniversary...

    by Rebel Scumb

    I've been rewatching star trek deep space nine and just got to the big anniversary episode for the Trek franchise where the DS9 crew goes back in time into the Tribbles episode of the old show. No matter how many times I've seen this episode I'm always blown away by how perfectly done it is, and what a classy satisfying way that was to commerate the anniversary Hopefully what ever Moffat and the BBC have up their sleeves for the Dr.Who anniversary is equally amazing.

  • July 31, 2011, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Question for Man of Vertue

    by Rebel Scumb

    Or anyone for that matter. Do you know if the producers accept spec scripts for Dr. Who? Or are they set with just their writing staff?

  • July 31, 2011, 11:22 p.m. CST

    hornorsilk: re Gridlock being Paradise Towers 2.0

    by lynxpro

    You read my mind. Of course I have been of the opinion for some time now that most of RTD's scripts on NewWho was at about the same level as the writing during the McCoy Era. [Granted, dialog is where he excels, not plots]. He's even admitted that "The Long Game" was originally written by him as a 7th Doctor adventure. I'd be willing to bet that the biggest critics of RTD's scripts are the same fans who heavily critique the McCoy Era. By contrast, MoffatWho embraces the big concepts that haven't really been seen since the Tom Baker era of ClassicWho...

  • July 31, 2011, 11:43 p.m. CST

    Madame Kovorian...

    by lynxpro

    Why hasn't anyone thought up the possibility that River has the eye patch on because she's trying to impersonate Madame Kovorian? Moffat is winding you all up as he always does... As for Ace, she was worse than Adric. But not as bad as Mel. I still don't understand why The Doctor thought Ace was so damn special [just as I don't get him thinking Rose was anything special either]. I mean, of all of his companions, why would he try to mold her into a Time Lady? Liz Shaw would've been more worthy...

  • July 31, 2011, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Torchwood *spoilers*

    by Kevin Bolinger

    *Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* If you havent seen part 4, dont read! Am I the only one super creeped out by the car crushing scene near the end of part 4? The close up of her eye in the wreckage...sent shivers down my spine, a fate truly worse then death!

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 12:26 a.m. CST

    On James Cameron, Earthshock, and other things

    by Stegman84

    Funny, I never made the Earthshock/Aliens link before, but who knows. After all, Cameron is by his own admission a pretty huge sci-fi geek (and a proper one at that, not a 'hollywood' geek chic one). I always did suspect that either George Lucas or Frank Oz saw some old William Hartnell Doctor Who at some point though, as Yoda's performance n=in Empre Strikes Back, with a few of his vocal mannerisms, his laugh and so on, always reminded me of the Hartnell era Doc.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 12:52 a.m. CST

    darthdevious - on the Torchwood episode (spoilers)

    by DoctorTom

    Yes, the living eyeball moving and looking out the tiny hole in the crushed car was definitely creepy. Of course Who has done the eyeball thing before (The Girl in the Fireplace), but the implications of the person being alive in the crushed car was even creepier. Given what they say about not dying, I wonder what happens if things were taken to an extreme such as putting someone in an incinerator so that there's nothing but ash left. Would the ash still be alive and sentient? <br> If someone fell off a boat and drowned without surfacing, would they eventually lose the instinct to try to get up for air? Would they suffer brain damage from lack of oxygen if they didn't get up for air in time? Or could they just find their bodies accepting living underwater? <br> People can't die, but can their bodily functions be slowed down to a virtual crawl? Could cryogenic freezing actually cause people's body functions to slow, or (if the freezers from the old Torchwood had still been around) would people find themselves waking up but still frozen? <br> <br> Hmm, talking about the cryogenic freezers made me think of something. We know that Jack thinks he's met the person behind this before, and that Jack is being targeted. We don't know what happened to the bodies in the cryogenic freezers during Torchwood: Children of Earth. Is it possible that the bad guy this season is Jack's brother Gray, let out of his cryotube?

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 1:03 a.m. CST

    lynxpro

    by DoctorTom

    On Madame Kovarian, I said (I think early this thread, or it may have been the thread about the trailer) that it's probably River Song impersonating Kovarian to infiltrate a place that doesn't know her very well, beyond "she's got curly hair, a big eyepatch and a bad attitude". <br> <br> As to Gridlock being Paradise Towers 2.0 and your likening of RTD to the 7th Doctor era, there's definitely some merit to that, though for '7th Doctor Era' I would definitely include the New Adventures in with the television episodes for influence. Survival feels like a blueprint for what Davies wanted to do, and he wrote a novel for the New Adventures. The New Adventures got more into the characterization than did the old series (and before Buffy came along on TV to push the characterization part, though Buffy had a pronounced effect on RTD also for how to handle bringing the series back). Having Paul Cornell adapt Human Nature into a Tennant story just emphasizes this. It's interesting to note that Tennant's treatment of the Family at the end of the 2 parter was thought to be a little extreme by some people (though it would be reasonable to think that the Doctor was royally pissed at them because of the 'death' of John Smith and what he had lost because of that), but was perfectly in keeping with the developing attitude of the 7th Doctor in the novels- 'Time's Champion'. Come to think of it, I could easily see the Matt Smith Doctor and somewhat see the Eccleston Doctor treating the Family the same way. Possibly the last season Tom Baker (after Romana left) would have done the same thing, and thrown Adric in with one of them for good measure. Pertwee probably would have just called the Time Lords and had them all locked up in the UNIT brig.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 1:10 a.m. CST

    50th anniversary

    by DoctorTom

    I just figured out a way you could have all of the surviving Doctors show up again in the series, and it wouldn't matter that they're older. <br> All it would take is the Master's laser screwdriver again, with the Doctor's genetic sample plugged in. Zap the Matt Smith Doctor with it, set it to take him so that he would go back a few regenerations and say that they would look like the actors do now if they had stayed that regeneration and reached the 908 or 1103 or whatever age Matt Smith's Doctor is at when we reach the 50th anniversary. Hit him once and you can have Tennant. Hit him again and it can be Paul McGann, then work back through the Doctors. It would be a different way to have a multiple Doctor story while still having only one Doctor around at a time (unless you want to bring in handDoctor and Rose from the parallel world while you're at it - then you can have fun regressing both the Matt Smith Doctor and the other universe's Doctor, so that you can have 2 different Doctors at any one time). <br> <br> And, hopefully, if they do bring back the Tennant Doctor in the other universe with Rose, they'll let him have a beard like the Delgado or Ainley Master to make a nod to the Mirror Universe Spock.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 1:20 a.m. CST

    Aliens vs. Earthshock

    by DoctorTom

    If I recall correctly, at the time Earthshock was being made, the production team was commenting on the original Alien movie and was making comparisons (though the military bits could easily have influenced Cameron later if he had seen it. I suspect that Star Wars was an influence on Saward at least from a pacing standpoint. <br> <br> Of course, both Aliens and Earthshock might be able to trace some of the pacing and military type action back to Douglas Camfield.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 1:31 a.m. CST

    Rebel - spec scripts

    by DoctorTom

    I seriously doubt that the production office will accept spec scripts. It seems like Moffat, like RTD, wants to use people who have established credentials first and get tapped to write something new for Who (or adapting it from Who in another medium). It seems your best bet for writing for Who is to work on another television show first, and possibly have written for Who in another media. <br> I suspect it would be easier to be accepted writing novels or writing audios for Big Finish. BF especially has taken to the things like Short Trips and the special releases with 4 stories for a Doctor over 2 discs to allow new talent to come in. <br> It's no guarantee, though. There's plenty of people who have written for Who in other media who haven't yet gotten to write for the TV series. I'm hoping Dan Abnett will get a chance soon; he's had a very good audio with the 7th Doctor (The Harvest) and is getting to write a major Doctor Who novel, and has had plenty of comic book writing experience to know how things should work visually. He's also written a screenplay for Games Workshop - their Warhammer 40k CGI film. I'd love to see him get to write an episode for the series, particularly if he can play with a race like the Sontarans or the Ice Warriors (who he's writing in his Who novel). Given his history with military sf, he'd probably do a wonderful job with them on TV.

  • I'll see everyone later today!

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 3:45 a.m. CST

    Gridlock/Paradise Towers/RTD

    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, I noticed Gridlock being Paradise Towers 2.0 when I first watched it as I watched it. Of course, I am a Paradise Towers fan, so I thought it interesting to see the Cleaners becoming the evolutionary end of the Macra. What I really find interesting is that RTD used the TV Movie with Paul McGann has a base for many of his stories.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 5:27 a.m. CST

    MOV didn't RTD break that rule

    by HornOrSilk

    By having Torchwood in Doctor Who... and I am talking about Jack and Gwen being shown next to the Doctor... and Rose... and Donna... and...

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 9:21 a.m. CST

    No, RTD didn't really break the rule

    by DoctorTom

    His rule had been - Torchwood in Doctor Who is fine, but not to have the Doctor show up in Torchwood. The Doctor Who stories with Torchwood in Who don't have the 'mature' content that some of the regular Torchwood stories have. The Torchwood fans wouldn't have a problem accepting them in the Doctor Who setting. Little kids who like the Doctor could end up with some rude surprises if the Doctor appeared in a Torchwood episode with more mature content (and we'd end up having the Mary Whitehouse types writing in about that kind of thing again...)

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 9:42 a.m. CST

    doctortom

    by HornOrSilk

    I would disagree. His rule was to only allow Captain Jack in Doctor Who. However, that was breached. Again, MOV pointed out, Gwen was not to be next to the Doctor, so as not to have the kids wanting to see more of her...

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Torchwood in Doctor Who

    by sunspot_mike

    I think the big thing was just not to have the Doctor in Torchwood so that kids would really be drawn into watching it. Torchwood was ostensibly an "adult" show (even though very little in the first season felt like it, maybe "Keep Killing Suze" and "Adrift", the rest was more of just adding sex and vulgarity into the mix - kinda like a horny teenager show rather than an adult show.) * SPOILERS FOR COE* Children of Earth had some adult moments, especially when the cabinet members were talking and also with Peter Capaldi's character. I still can't figure out why everybody was so mad about what happened to Ianto. Sure, it was interesting that they had Jack screw the butler, but that was the catalyst that made Jack do the horrible thing he had to do to save the world from the 456. However, I would have used a terminally ill patient or something else than my own grandson. And while it was a disgusting and tragic sacrifice, you at least cannot say it wasn't justifiable. Because 10% of the world's children were at stake. * SPOILERS OFF * Anyway, I can't see The Doctor showing up in Miracle Day, at least not the way they're dragging things. It feels padded like old Doctor Who, not ultra-rushed like the new ones sometimes do. But that's getting better because the overall series arc is getting enough attention to feel like we're getting a proper story in addition to the adventures inside the big "Silence Will Fall".

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 10:33 a.m. CST

    50th anniversary/11 doctors - a different take

    by Rebel Scumb

    You could devote a whole season to it, and do a 'key to time' type quest, and do each episode like the DS9 tribbles episode, where the doctor has to go back each episode into a different moment (and different regeneration) of his past so in the premiere he would get the quest in ep2 he would go back into a hartnell episode (the companion could even ask why they are in black and white, and knowing Moffat he would have some super hilarious and awesome explanation) ep3 go into a traughton episode, ep4 into a pertwee... and so forth and so on And then the last 2 episode would be the climax with just the 11th doctor defeating the threat. Although if they wanted to have the past doctors come back to the future with him, so much the better!!!

  • The Slyveen? I say this only because in the last episode the voice said 'the family's are rising' or something that, and the only 2established villians I can think of that are family oriented are the Slyveen and 'the family of blood' Of course it's even more likely the villian is new to the canon as of TW:MD, but the way they were playing with the mystery in part 4, it felt like they might be teasing the return of an established baddie

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Naah, I don't think so

    by DoctorTom

    I don't think Starz would want the big bads to be a group of alien fart jokes, so I don't think it would be the Slitheen. <br> <br> The reference 'the families are rising' might be referring to families of vampires. Maybe they got tired of dying when they got staked, and pulling this change with people not dying would prevent some of the forms of death they're worried about, and would also provide a never dying food supply. Depending on how they handle vampirism, not being able to die might not necessarily be protection against becoming a vampire. It wouldn't surprise me if Jack had run into vampires in the past.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 2:18 p.m. CST

    I hope they leave THE MASTER out of the 50th yr anniversary.

    by DoctorWho?

    Seems unlikely though. The Master character has been thoroughly destroyed beyond recognition for me...starting with Eric Roberts onward.<p> Singing, dancing, juvenile, wise-cracking, super-flying powers, and COMPLETELY one dimensional. Darth Vader has more depth and motivation behind his character than any Master since the DW movie. <p> As if they could just call any 'send-up' character THE MASTER and it would be accepted. I'm no purist who needs an all clad-in-black, mustache twirling Ainley or Delgado type in the role...but at least START from there and make changes.

  • and will reveal that Amy's house is a TARDIS. They'll also reveal that the Silents were on Gallifrey and gave the Doctor the posthypnotic suggestion to leave, and convinced him that a total stranger (Susan) is his granddaughter (and convinced her that he's her grandfather), and they were on Skaro whispering sweet nothings into Davros' ear and convinced him to make travel casings for the Kaled mutations. And that they convinced both sides to go to war with each other. <br> <br> Or not.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 3:17 p.m. CST

    the master

    by Rebel Scumb

    well regardless I hope the master is used sparingly, I find both he and the cybermen overstay their welcome very quickly with me, despite that I like them both I'm biased because the jacobi/simm version of the master was my first exposure to the character, but I really liked Simms portrayal of the master in the series 3 finale, but hated the way he was presented in 'the end of time'. Though I do think the next interpretation should be closer to the Ainley/delgado versions. But one of my beefs with the classic series is the Master shows up way way too much. I think its towards the end of the Tom Baker run and going into the Davison stuff where it seems like the Master is the baddie in like 5 stories in a row or something like that. He's also in the Pertwee stuff quite a bit. For me The Master, The Daleks and The Cybermen should always be a big event when they show up. Although of the 3 I think Daleks can be used the most often as they are always amusing even when it's a less than stellar outing. But I would prefer the cybermen and the master only show up once every 3-4 seasons.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Spoilery speculation

    by Jeffrey Possberg

    The overall arc of Moffat's run seems like it could be connected - I keep coming back to "Only the DOCTOR can pilot the TARDIS" from 'The Pandorica Opens'. Is there any reason why re-setting the universe would give the Doctor an advantage dealing with the Silence or with Eye-patch lady? One of the big threats of Season Five was stepping outside of the universe and having all memory of people and events being erased - and now the Silence themselves automatically engender this effect with everyone they interact with? Did the Silence only come into 'being' when the universe reset? Still think that the Doctor we saw at Lake Silencio being killed is much younger than he said he is. The presence of the Silence that Amy made eye-contact with, the Doctor's recognition of the Impossible Astronaut, the way even the wine the doctor drank didn't taste right...probably just pulling at strings, but way to go Moffat on making this so much fun to speculate on

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 3:49 p.m. CST

    doctortom, you gave away your true identity

    by Seph_J

    with that semi tongue-in-cheek "Valeyard, Rani, Amy's house is a TARDIS" rant.

  • It's been shown that other people can pilot the TARDIS, even in the new series - the Master, River Song. It was impeachable sources making the claim, expressly disproven in the scenes with River Song.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    seph_j, no I didn't

    by DoctorTom

    there isn't 'true identity' to give away. I was thinking of the Hitler video posted on the interwubs with the 'Anyone who thinks the Valeyard, Omega or the Rani is behind this leave the room now'. <br> And, if it's the author of that video you're confusing me for, I thought he still occasionally posted under the same name he used as the author of the video.

  • I just had a flashback to Jac Rayner's adaptation of Paul Cornell's 'Oh No It Isn't' - the first audio released by Big Finish, long before they had the Doctor Who license (first bought on audiocassette).

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 4:19 p.m. CST

    doctortom, unless they were implying your identity IS Hitler

    by Rebel Scumb

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 4:35 p.m. CST

    doctortom

    by Seph_J

    phew... I was worried then. For a minute I thought I was going to have to stand tall and proud, to convince this particular person that speculation on matters such as the Rani, evil-doc personalities and extra floors in houses was the entire reason we all gather here. Once again. So you've no idea how glad I am that I don't have to! Apologies for the mistaken identity!

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 6:19 p.m. CST

    The secret reveal

    by HornOrSilk

    Turns out the big bad is Hitler. There. Now you know. ;)

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 6:52 p.m. CST

    TARDIS piloting

    by Jeffrey Possberg

    DoctorTom: You're absolutely correct. River, The Master, even briefly Rose managed to pilot the TARDIS in the past (heck, if you have a one-time CD from the Doctor you can start the process) I just thought that it may end up being a sly nod to the Doctor actually being the one responsible. Just pulling at strings for what would be dramatically interesting...

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 9:07 p.m. CST

    MAJOR SPOILER: The Big Bad Revealed!

    by veteran_of_mu

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z-p9DnoVj0&t=5m34s And you thought it was going to be the Valeyard. Feh.

  • Aug. 1, 2011, 9:25 p.m. CST

    EVEN MORE MAJOR SPOILER: The Secret Identity Of The Big Bad!

    by veteran_of_mu

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTCE2_nPRD0 Of course the cupboard is bigger on the inside.

  • Aug. 2, 2011, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Three stitches in my big toe and a cracked bone.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...that's what you get for dropping a family sized tin of soup on your foot and it hitting with the rim. It actually fell from an overhead cupboard, bounced off a worksurface (unscathed, the bastard!) and cracked my big toe. I think next door (which is about 65 feet away from my garden fence) heard me shout BASTARD!!!! at the top of my lungs. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop me doing my job as the requirement is to sit on my arse for most of the time on a rolling office chair, trundling between a computer desk, another chair, several medical cabinets, an examination couch and a filing cabinet. Occasionally I have to stand up. Oh, and IS doctortom actually the one and only Shibs in disguise??????? If so, he STILL owes me £20 for being wrong about the house-tardis.....

  • Aug. 2, 2011, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Sam- ouch!

    by DoctorTom

    Sorry to hear about the pain and the stitches, hope your foot gets better soon. <br> And no, I'm not Shibs. Doesn't he live up in the chicago area? I'm way too far south for that, so I can't even go over to collect your money for you to send out...

  • Aug. 2, 2011, 11:39 a.m. CST

    oh no...

    by Seph_J

    not the debt collection thing! Apparantly, I owe Kelvington everything I own as payment for multiple bets which he made and I never agreed to!

  • (spoilers for Eureka) <br> In Eureka last night, they revealed the use of what could easily be a prototype for running Gangers like we saw in The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People

  • The astronaut suit actually holds one of the missing ducks that should have been at the duck pond in The Eleventh Hour. All the fancy life support and stuff wasn't so that a child could work the astonaut suit, it was so that a duck could.

  • Aug. 2, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST

    I'm going to avoid all spoilers

    by Rebel Scumb

  • Aug. 2, 2011, 5:21 p.m. CST

    I bet a Toblerone: Identity of River Song (Real Spoilers)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Reviewing AGMGTW it's plain that the writing River is referring to when she says, "can't you read?' is on the crib, not on the leaf. The Doctor's reaction, "Hello ..." followed by awe and giggles is not natural if she's just Melody Pond. River repeats the Doc's "Hello", underlining it. Well, the last time we had such a significant "Hello" it was from Sexy in the Doctor's Wife. It should be obvious to all that that's who the Doc sees in River. It will be revealed that Time Lords are born symbionts and that the writing on the Doc's crib is his name AND HERS. In Gaiman's episode we saw Sexy completely replace the inhabitant of Suranne Jones' body. But the body burnt out because it didn't have a time head. So I think we're about to see an evil River raised and controlled by Kovarian who will indeed kill the Doc ... and then have her innards summarily replaced by Sexy. Who will explain that the remaining Ganger Doc is, just as the original Doc claimed, identical with The Doctor. And that's who River's Future Doctor really is. That's why he can properly fly the TARDIS. Because as a Ganger he can remember all his incarnations, he's more than just a Time Lord. He's the King of Time. And I will even bet you all a Toblerone that that's what we get as an episode title for Episode 12 or 13 or for the 50th celebration. Doctor Who: The King Of Time. You know this to be true.

  • It looked to us (the audience) that he was looking at the crib, but they've already said that was a problem with the editing. That it should have been clearer that he was looking at the leaf and stitching.

  • Aug. 3, 2011, 8:38 a.m. CST

    I'll see that Toblerone bet, Caractuspotts

    by DoctorTom

    It won't happen the way you said, and not only because of the editing problem v'shael brought up. There's no reason for Sexy's name to be on the crib. The TARDIS selected him, but that wasn't until he was about 200 years old (the one we're following is presumably the 908 year old Doctor*, and when he asked Sexy her name she said 'after 700 years', leaving 200 years pre-TARDIS). So, it shouldn't be the TARDIS' name on the crib as well as the Doctor's. Besides, you're missing a bigger point - if it had been the TARDIS' name as well as the Doctor's on the crib, he wouldn't NEED to ask Sexy what her name was, he'd have known from the point the TARDIS ran away with her thief. <br> (* presuming the Doctor is keeping track of his age correctly and not getting his sums wrong - he claimed to be 953 back in the latter days of the classic series - or he's not just lying about his age to take a few years off to make himself seem younger. This might seem strange when someone says they're 908, but he might have some psychological thing about not wanting to admit if he's actually over 1000 years old - unless there's a specific reason like in The Impossible Astronaut to have the Ponds think he's a much older version than the one they had been running around with. And, for all we know, he spent most of that 200 years doing silly things with Laurel and Hardy to send messages to the Ponds and going out on dates with River.) <br> <br> It also shouldn't be River's name on the crib because it's not a (full) Time Lord baby, and it's not the Doctor's baby, it's just a human baby with a Time Head. <br> I think the 'awe and giggles' was a reaction to her secret about who she is actually being that she's the Pond's daughter, coupled with the first glimmerings of realizing that he might actually be falling in love with her - it's the reaction of someone who's realized he's smitten. The whole story of River Song is a wibbly wobbly timey wimey romance, and we're getting to watch it play out.

  • Aug. 3, 2011, 9:24 a.m. CST

    @v'shael & doctortom (Spoiler & Toblerone)

    by veteran_of_mu

    I'm aware of what's been said. I don't buy it. I mean, really, watch the scene again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d6LLYT7dUc If River had wanted the Doc to look at the leaf, she'd have handed him the leaf. She talks about the crib instead. He looks down at the crib instead. And the TARDIS hasn't translated the leaf yet. The Doc can't read Gamma Forest natively. But he certainly can read Gallifreyan. And then he's incredibly excited - giddy. Why would he be so excited about kissing the Ponds' daughter? Why would that identity change his feelings about River at all? But his reaction is exactly what you would expect if he realised River was Sexy. I admit the symbiont idea is naff. So think about it this way: River is going backwards in time relative to the Doc. Given Ganger technology there's no reason she need stay locked in the Library. If a future Doc wants her saved there, he wants her saved there because he wants to get her out again. Maybe so River can keep on going backwards. Accompanying him in one form or another all the way back to the Doc's birth. "Oh look your cot haven't seen that in a very long while". The odds are she's not his mother ... but he's absolutely pinging on something about that crib. And the two hellos are absolutely a reference to Sexy. Plus ... the Doctor's Wife established that the Doc and Sexy love each other. I'm not suggesting they couldn't have a menage a trois. But I think that is in the same basket at the notion that River is also his Mum. Too much for the kiddies to bear.

  • Aug. 3, 2011, 10 a.m. CST

    Now *this* is more like it!

    by Mister Vertue

    THIS is what we need to be talking about! Please, keep going, it's brilliant stuff. And of course, I have absolutely no idea if you're even close to the actual events that will eventually unfold, but it makes for nice reading all the same. Maybe take another look at the latest trailer for further clues, that might help you out a bit more. But keep going!

  • With the "but we" with him miming kissing, you also had the Doctor giving furtive looks over to Amy and Rory, as if realizing that River's parents might have caught them snogging at some point (or will in the future). <br> <br> Also consider that it's his crib, but why would it be on the TARDIS if he went on the ship when he's 200 years old? It wouldn't be just because the crib had sentimental value (though I'd give Hartnell 10 out of 10 for style if it turned out that was why the 1st Doctor brought the crib on). It's more likely that one of the Doctor's children, or (even more likely) his granddaughter was also using the crib. Susan's knowledge of Gallifrey might be only what the Doctor has revealed to her (hopefully not by bonking her on the head, Lodger-style).

  • Aug. 3, 2011, 4:41 p.m. CST

    MOV: Oh we haven't forgotten ... (+ spoilers)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Octavian: "He doesn't know yet, does he? Who and what you are." She is a what. River: "Oh Doctor. Why do I let you out." She is a what that lets the Doctor out. River: "It's Our Diary" The diary of their travels together ... and it's a blue box ... There are only 2 trailer scenes (discounting the skulls) that bear on this. The eyepatch and the astronaut. I liike notspock2's speculation that the eyepatch is an image of a silent. But that's not good enough because it's not "an eyepatch" but "the eyepatch". It's styled and coloured exactly like Kovarian's patch. So ... Kovarian is the weaponised Melody. That's why she kidnapped the baby - to become herself. Kovarian kills Rory - the real Rory this time, revealing that Rory was kidnapped at the same time as Amy. And that's why Amy killing Kovarian is so very dramatic. . To make it even worse Kovarian doesn't die but regenerates into River, leading to the Doc's "fall" as his failure to save Amy becomes more and more pathetic. Doc figures out a plan to avert all of this by getting himself killed by the Astronaut - knowing that his ganger self will live on. Or something. At that point my crystal ball shorts out. Likewise for the reason for the Doc carrying around his own crib, you got me. It would make more sense if it was Susan's - but there are so many paths through that I can't guess. And MOV ... eventual events? Hmm.

  • Aug. 3, 2011, 7:27 p.m. CST

    Dictionary Spoiler & Furtive Looks at Amy & Rory

    by veteran_of_mu

    the mean value of the product of the deviations of two variates from their respective means.

  • Aug. 3, 2011, 7:31 p.m. CST

    Oh crap, the damned double quote bug.

    by veteran_of_mu

    First time I've experienced it. Not cool. What I was saying at slightly greater length was that (i) of course the Doc realises that Sexy can only be hosted in a body with a time head, and that following on from his earlier discussion that means she's in Melody's body; (ii) Ponds being in-laws he can indeed look shifty at them without upsetting my barrow; and (iii) the OED definition of Covariance is ''the mean value of the product of the deviations of two variates from their respective means.' - very punny ...

  • The method of covarions, or concomitantly variable codons, is a technique in computational phylogenetics that allows the hypothesized rate of molecular evolution at individual codons in a set of nucleotide sequences to vary in an autocorrelated manner. Under the covarion model, the rates of evolution on different branches of a hypothesized phylogenetic tree vary in an autocorrelated way, and the rates of evolution at different codon sites in an aligned set of DNA or RNA sequences vary in a separate but autocorrelated manner. This provides additional and more realistic constraints on evolutionary rates versus the simpler technique of allowing the rate of evolution on each branch to be selected randomly from a suitable probability distribution such as the gamma distribution. Covarions is a concrete form of the more general concept of heterotachy.

  • Aug. 4, 2011, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Hmm, it cut off after the first paragraph

    by DoctorTom

    Covarions referred to computational phylogenetics. Wiki had the following for phylogenetics - <br> In biology, phylogenetics is the study of evolutionary relatedness among groups of organisms (e.g. species, populations), which is discovered through molecular sequencing data and morphological data matrices. <br> The plan of the Church in trying to evolve a human - Time Lord hybrid (or, Time Head baby as we like to call them) seems to come closer to 'covarion' (which would be pronounced pretty much the same as Kovarian) than covariant does.

  • If all it takes is having the baby soak in the Time-Space Vortex (either at conception or while it's developing), why didn't Kovarian's group just develop Time Head babies by finding some warp rifts, tethering volunteers and sending them in to go have babies while in the rift? (Presumably they'd have to go this far for the forced evolution, just being near the rift would take too long - it took a long time and exposure to the Untempered Schism for Time Lords to evolve.) <br> <br> Maybe the Flesh is a method of fast evolving the changes too. It might be possible to make a Flesh avatar that's a different biological age than the original. If this could be done, make a baby, make an adult Flesh avatar of that, have the Flesh avatar have another baby in the rift, rinse and repeat until you end up with complete Time Head babies. Or the Mandragora Helix or Kronos or something like that.

  • Aug. 4, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Caractuspotts, you had a good suggestion there

    by DoctorTom

    I still don't buy that River is/wil become Sexy, but the theory that Kovarian becomes River Song was something I hadn't consdered. I had been thinking fractured timelines, but Time Head baby becoming Kovarian then later becoming River Song would definitely interesting. This would mean that Kovarian is trying to brainwash her earlier self - but would this to be to make sure Kovarian ensures her timeline, or is Kovarian trying to change the timeline to get an outcome that she prefers? It does all get timey wimey real fast thinking about this. <br> Thinking about it makes me think back to the Celestial Madonna storyline in the Avengers comic in the 1970's. They had Rama Tut becoming Kang, then an older Kang retiring and becoming an older Rama Tut who positions himself to try to help stop his younger Kang self, before eventually becoming Immortus. More timey wimey shenanigans, but not as complex as some of what we have here. <br> On Bleeding Cool, Rich Johnston has put up charts plotting the timelines and histories of River Song and the Doctor. It gets more complex than the chart plotting up the history of the Doctors as railway lines (I don't have a web link handy, sorry).

  • Aug. 5, 2011, 4:14 a.m. CST

    "Covariant covarions coverin' cows" averred Ian.

    by veteran_of_mu

    Oh, that Rich Johnston chart is nothing. Check out this one for the movie Primer: http://dauntlessmedia.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/primer_timeline.jpg Every time I see a Doctor Who character sporting an earpiece I begin to worry ... I mean I believe Moffat IS capable of that sort of thing ... Any Whovian who has not seen Primer - you owe it to yourself. I should mention that you will be made extremely unhappy by Primer the first time you see it. But within just a few dozen viewings you'll fall in love enough to actually give a damn about the chart given above.

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