Ain't It Cool News (

Will 'The Aztecs' Rip Out The Friday Docback's Heart?? A Look At DOCTOR WHO Story #6, And More!!


Merrick here...

...continuing our exploration of vintage DOCTOR WHO with a look at "The Aztecs" (Hartnell, Story #5)  which aired May 23 - June 13, 1964. 



A few weeks ago I embedded some cool footage of my friend Ken Plume interviewing seventh Doctor Sylvester McCoy at this year's DragonCon. 

Ken is a very close, very dear acquaintance whom I known for a long, long time.  He's every bit as Geeky as I am, and while our interests are generally aligned, there's also an understandable divergence in our likes and dislikes.  Which has, over the years, made for some thoroughly nerdified, completely dorked- out, frequently stream-of-consciousness conversations that are usually a tad fluid, but more-often-than-not emerge as rather substantive.  I'm speaking only for myself here, but I'd like to think that...on a regular basis...we learn something from each other...or at least have our eyes opened a bit...during our discussions. 

Ken recently hatched the notion of, essentially, porting a semblance of our conversations to a podcast - the first installment of which went online earlier this week.  This was my first podcast...EVER...and I wasn't entirely familiar with the "how tos" and "ins and outs" of their production, which does show a bit in my timing and whatnot.  Despite this, and despite Ken's and my involvement...I think it came out rather well. 

This week we dig into DOCTOR WHO Season/Series Six, dismember poor TORCHWOOD: MIRACLE DAY (detouring into considerations of storytelling and mythology), look at the nature of The Doctor's "heroism" (or is it "anti-heroism"?), roundly exalt Steven Moffat, and much more.  

You can check it out at Ken's site HERE, or find it on iTunes HERE - we should have another installment coming next week I believe.  Enjoy!




We'll look at the recently re-released "Talons of Weng-Chiang" (HERE) and the DOCTOR WHO: THE DAVID TENNANT YEARS DVD set (HERE).







"I just feel sometimes as if the people who've died here are watching, waiting for ME to to die..."

- Barbara - 'The Day of Darkness' - "The Aztecs"


This is the sixth DOCTOR WHO story ever, featuring William Hartnell.  As you might infer from the episode's title, the story brings our travelers The Doctor, Ian (William Russell), Barbara (Jacqueline Hill) and Susan (Carole Ann Ford)  face-to-face with mighty and fearsome Aztecs.  

The episode hits the ground running - offering only a few moments of blatantly educational exposition before getting down to its briskly paced business.  While exploring an Aztec temple, Barbara is intercepted and mistaken as the re-incarnation of Yetaxa - a "high priestess" who will quickly be presented to a drought-stricken populous.  But not all Aztecs believe Barbara is a new embodiment of Yetaxa, suspecting she may instead be a dangerous impostor.  Believer Autloc (the High Priest of Knowledge, played by Keith Pyott) and doubter Tlotoxl (the local High Priest of Sacrifice, played by John Ringham in a delightfully OTT performance) square off in a dance of maneuverings and intrigues which bring Ian into unavoidable conflict with petulant warrior Ixta (Ian Cullen), land Susan under Autloc's tutelage as he attampts to shape her into a proper Aztec woman, and result in the Doctor becoming inadvertently engaged.


Scripted by John Lucarotti, who also wrote "Marco Polo" for DOCTOR WHO before this, "The Aztecs" is completely devoid of the flab which weighted down that earlier episode.  While liberties with historic and anthropological details are certain (I'm pretty sure the Aztecs didn't speak as biblically as these folks do), the depiction of Aztecs on the whole still feels reasonably plausible if you can get past a buncha very white British guys dressing up as 15th century Mexicans.  While little violence appears on-screen, discussions of Aztec sacrifices and rituals aren't shied away from here - the complex and almost alien Aztec culture not only provides critical story points, but is regarded a something of a character unto itself. 


And it's here that this story truly shines.  

The seemingly bipolar Aztec culture is a constant source of both wonder and horror to our frequently flummoxed heroes.  For example:  matters like human sacrifice and public torture / humiliation are essential elements of this episode's plot line. 

One story movement finds The Doctor at odds with Ian and Barbara regarding whether or not they should interfere with an upcoming sacrifice - a ceremony in which Ian is to play a decidedly unpleasant role. Much to Ian and Barbara's protest, The Doctor insists that they can not, and must not, convolute with the impending event -  which is an essential component of Aztec culture and devotion.  There's a touch of altruism and "non-interference" hidden within The Doctor's directive, as well as a pointed self-preservation.  The more The Doctor and Company call attention not themselves, the harder it'll be for them to escape - thus protecting their own best interests requires our leads to recalibrate their moral compass. That's pretty hard-edged stuff, and Hartnell and Hill knock a few of their contentious scenes out of the park when considering the matter, and the ramifications of her eventual actions.  

A later incident propels Susan towards severe and painful punishment (thorns through the tongue and ears) - will The Doctor's policy of non-interference stand when someone he cares about is endangered?  Rough questions...involving social tendencies many people may find brutal or savage.  But I sense a degree of respect towards Aztec culture here, not condemnation.  Our main characters sometimes shun the "barbaric" practices of The Aztecs - but I never felt as if the story itself is trashing that now lost civilization.  In essence, our heroes' reactions to the established values of another culture were sometimes as problematic and inflammatory as the ways of The Aztecs themselves.  Brilliant construction from a storytelling point of few, and well played by all.  

Many of the dynamics and conflicts in "The Aztecs" address a base and unfortunate tendency of the human condition: an aversion of peoples and tenets that are not similar to our own.  A timeless issue which is playing out on the world stage even today.  Making "The Aztecs" somewhat allegorical in its endgame, whether or not it was intended to be so at the time.  

By way of full disclosure, I'm the son of an accomplished Cultural Anthropologist - so I was already somewhat pre-disposed to an episode addressing such themes.  Objectively though, I stand by my contention that "The Aztecs" is an under-appreciated little gem which doesn't figure into many discussions about DOCTOR WHO, but emerges as meaningful and significant nonetheless.


"The Aztecs" is available HERE in the U.S. and HERE in the U.K. and is streamable on Netflix (the mastering of the DVD is infinitely superior to the Netflix version). 



--- follow Merrick on Twitter ! ---







"The Impossible Astronaut"

"Day of the Moon"

"The Curse of the Black Spot"

"The Doctor's Wife"

"The Rebel Flesh"

"The Almost People"

"A Good Man Goes To War"

"Let's Kill Hitler"

"Night Terrors"




"Time and the Rani"

"Merrick's Personal Journey With The Doctor / "Frontios"

"An Unearthly Child"

DOCTOR WHO Title Sequences & DW At Comic-Con 2011

"The Daleks," "The Awakening," "The Crash of the Elysium"

"The Gunfighters" / "The Edge of Destruction"

Why Eccleston Left, Here Comes Caroline Skinner, And Season/Series Six Part 1 on Blu-Ray And DVD

"Paradise Towers" / New WHOvian Documentary / Newsbits

New Trailer For Season/Series Six Part 2

"Marco Polo" and "The Sun Makers"

"Day of the Daleks" (+ Preview Of DotD Special Edition)

"The Keys of Marinus"



AICN's Friday DOCTOR WHO Talkbacks - aka "Docbacks"  - operate on a different set of standards than other AICN Talkbacks.  These standards developed quickly and naturally, and we intend to preserve them.  Accordingly, please take a moment to note a few guidelines which should help proceedings move along smoothly and pleasantly:  
1) a Docback should be about completely open and free discourse regarding all things WHO (with, obviously, some variation on subject matter from time to time - the real world intervenes, discussions of other shows are inevitable, etc.)... 

2) matters of SPOILAGE should be handled with thoughtful consideration and sensitivity.  Posts containing SPOILERS should clearly state that a SPOILER exists in its topic/headline and should never state the spoiler itself . "** SPOILER ** Regarding Rory" is OK, for example.  "** SPOILER ** Battle of Zarathustra" is fine as well.  "**SPOILER** Why did everyone die?"  Is NOT good.  

And, above all... 

3) converse, agree, disagree, and question as much as you want - but the freedom to do so is NOT a license to be rude, crass, disrespectful, or uncivilized in any way.  Not remaining courteous and civil, as well as TROLLING or undertaking sensational efforts to ignite controversy, will result in banning.  Lack of courtesy may receive one (1) warning before a ban is instigated.  Obvious Trolling or Spamming will result in summary banning with no warning.  One word posts intended to bump-up any Docback's figures on AICN's "Top Talkbacks" sidebar will be considered actionable Spam - they not only complicate efforts to access Docbacks from mobile devices, but impede readers' abilities to follow or engage in flowing conversation. 
In short, it's easy.  Be excellent to each other.  Now party on...
Readers Talkback
comments powered by Disqus
    + Expand All
  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:34 a.m. CST

    bring on the banhammer

    by gotilk

    oh but wait, it's the beloved choppah. what will happen? we wait and see. Nah, only people like Moffatbabies get banned for saying dead pop stars should be helped instead of encouraged, because someone with the power to ban people didn't know how to read. Ah well. Good Morning Dockbackers!!! I missed you.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:57 a.m. CST

    I saw this on Netflix...

    by superhero

    While it was of that old Aztec stuff was just embarrassing. Plus, Miracle Day sucked to high heaven. Was hoping it would re-coup. Looked like it for about one episode and then went back to crap. Just give Captain Jack his own show, dump the Torchwood concept and call it "Harkness". Thank you BBC/Starz I just created a new show for you and made you a bazillion dollars. ;O)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:59 a.m. CST

    The_Choppah is right

    by mosif

    The Aztecs is a great story from the shows first season. It is also a shame to waste the first three posts on an irrelevant topic. This is a Docback dammit. Hartnell is superb in this as are the other regulars. I wish nuwho would try a historical story with no aliens, just some dangerous people.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, noon CST


    by gotilk

    Oops. I mean I care Mr Chops. I mean welcome and enjoy your stay!! Thanks for the opinion!!!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:03 p.m. CST

    An excellent story

    by DoctorTom

    If this was being done now, we might have ended up with Cameca joining the TARDIS crew for a few stories. <br> This was a good story showing a valid way of doing historicals. They didn't have to be boring, they could do as well in ratings as the other stories (later production teams just got tired of doing actual historicals). This was also a time when the BBC was good at doing historicals, so there was all that expertise in the company that could be used on stories like these.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:05 p.m. CST

    I saw this one years ago

    by Dreamfasting

    And although I have a hard time remembering any of the actual scenes/dialogue, my memory of the tone and atmosphere of this story is very strong. It's a rare Doctor Who story with no alien menace, yet I remember it feeling far more alien and challenging than most stories that do have monsters because there's simply no hiding from the fact that humans have, over the eons, generated some vastly different cultures. I do miss that notion that the Doctor needs to watch his step - as fun as the modern hyper-confident godlike trickster is, there are times where I miss that notion that sometimes you need to walk carefully in a foreign land.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:08 p.m. CST

    Great idea on doing the podcast, Merrick!

    by DoctorTom

    I'll be listening to it after lunch. I think it's a great idea and should help provide more topics for discussion here. Keep posting the links up for new ones when you do them. Will this become a regular weekly podcast?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:10 p.m. CST

    THE AZTECS! Here is a cool story...

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    During 4th grade, we had a sub teacher doing the class one day. He wheeled in the tv, and put in a movie. At the time, we were learning about the Aztecs, and other Central/South American cultures. So the lights go off, and this Doctor Who story came on! I only at the time knew of the 4th Doctor, and this was the story that introduced me to the 1st Doctor. Very cool.

  • 1. Hasn't been here since the beginning and truly contributing. 2. Hasn't been paying attention. Still, it doesn't really matter. And I don't jump on taking credit for things, that's up to others. Enjoy your stay, Chopsley. I'm always happy to see you. I sadly lost all of my Hartnell years episodes in a catastrophic crash/hard drive loss. :( I will have to go with the Netflix option. How MUCH better is the DVD?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:12 p.m. CST

    doctortom (re: podcast)

    by Merrick

    Thanks! The podcast will be weekly for the most part (at least, so say our current designs).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:13 p.m. CST

    gotilk (re: "Aztecs" stream)

    by Merrick

    "The Aztecs" DVD is quite a bit better than the Netflix stream. The stream is watchable...but the DVD is much brighter, sharper, and clearer.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST


    by Merrick

    "cunt" in the headline

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:22 p.m. CST

    dreamfasting - series 7 and onwards

    by Mister Vertue

    I have a feeling after the events of series 6, and the final scene in particular, we'll be seeing The Doctor treading *much* more carefully in 'foreign lands' from now on, don't you?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Choppah, said your "piece"? Huh? Oh.....PEACE....

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST

    MOV.....The Doctor still telling people "I'm The Doctor", or...

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    should he start telling people "I'm John smith". Would make more sense being "dead" and all.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:26 p.m. CST


    by Mister Vertue

    I have a feeling that whatever you did, it contravened Merrick's 'Docback Code of Conduct', which is clearly displayed at the top of the thread. Merrick is a fair moderator in these discussions and I really don't think he needs to explain himself at all, unless you're claiming to be innocent? If so, please explain yourself.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:27 p.m. CST

    The Aztecs is pure classic

    by HornOrSilk

    It's one of the best historical stories and shows what has been missing with New Who in regards to historical adventures. I understand adding sci-fi elements to history can be fun, but sometimes, history itself can be used for a story all its own. This shows how it can be done. Yes, it's a 60s BBC production with all the flaws one expects from it. But the story -- the story -- that transcends the production values. And this story really gives depth to the Doctor, the kind I think we might see happening again (the Doctor needing to keep low key might require similar actions in some stories).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:28 p.m. CST

    MOV (re: returning character)

    by Merrick

    That character you previously suggested would be coming back in S7...I've got it all figured out I think. Adric!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:29 p.m. CST

    MOV points out what I just was writing

    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, I expect this.. but maybe we can have one pure historical story... too.. maybe? I say the perfect story is with Ashoka. The Doctor as monk. Asoka's hell. Ashoka's conversion.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:30 p.m. CST

    I have wondered if the Doctor is going to change his name

    by HornOrSilk

    At least in his disguise mode. The War Chief? Doctor meaning warrior? Imagine the ramifications!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:35 p.m. CST


    by Merrick

    1) From my point of view, you can jump into any AICN Talkback and find someone calling someone else names. As indicated in the Code of Conduct, the point here is to be different... 2) The single post spamming were from established Docbackers who had stated that they were making a point of keeping multiple Docbacks in the Top Talkbacks sidebar *after* those particular Docbacks had pretty much dried up. Your point is taken - but only within a certain context. Have a bit of work to do...hopefully this addresses your misgivings. As you're posting from another login, the conversation is pretty much moot at the moment anyway.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Yeah, OK, just to avoid confusion in this and future Docbacks...

    by Merrick

    I *totally* get and appreciate the intent of the large number of posts on past Docbacks...but to avoid further conflict over (and misinterpretations of) the "no spamming" mandate in the CoC, perhaps we shouldn't pursue that avenue in the future.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Hey merrick

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    I think the way that the talkback is configured on AICN is not the best for the docbacks. I have a a super fast machine, but when the docback get filled up with comments through the week, it takes about 20 minutes for the page to load! Knocking out spammers is one way to speed the docbacks up, but out of all of the talkbacks on AICN, the docback has the least amount of spammers. Is there anyway the webmaster can't just remod the way the docbacks are set up, so we don't have this problem? Just curious.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:49 p.m. CST

    michael_jacksons_ghost (re: reworking Talkback)

    by Merrick

    That's a really interesting question that I'm looking into. From what I understand, AICN *appears* to be built around a decidedly inflexible architecture - doing anything specialized around here poses a significant challenge. For example: I can moderate from IOS devices (iPhone, iPads) but the site isn't set up in a way which accommodates actually *posting* from them.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:51 p.m. CST

    Single-word postings are a little silly

    by Mister Vertue

    In that respect, I agree with choppah, and he seems to know his Doctor Who too. However, posting the 'c' word is slightly naughty, although I've seen one or two people here using words almost as bad. Either way, it's nice to see the matter resolved with a clear explanation from both sides. Good job chaps!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:53 p.m. CST

    re: man_of_vertue - final scene of series 6

    by Dreamfasting

    I almost mentioned that final scene in my original post - there was a lot of atmosphere in just the way the Doctor walked away, quieter, smaller. But I don't want to build up expectations and assumptions (well, I can't stop my imagination from spinning, but I can at least muffle it a little)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:54 p.m. CST


    by Mister Vertue

    Oh, I think they'll find a clever way for him to still introduce himself by name, but more in keeping with the old show rather than the 2005 revival. Anything and everything is possible with this brilliant show.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 12:58 p.m. CST


    by Mister Vertue

    Matthew Waterhouse is definitely signed for series 7, that's a 100% stone-cold fact. You have excellent sources sir.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:03 p.m. CST

    Purely historical stories

    by Mister Vertue

    Without an alien presence or a supernatural element is something I'd love to see again. Not on a regular basis, but just a standalone episode. That's another way the show could hark back to it's roots. I suppose we can view the show as being like fashion - it always goes full circle and comes back around again, right back to the beginning.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Spamming and the "C" word...

    by Red43jes

    Have to agree with Choppah. Sorry guys, I know you wanted to hit a high count on Who but for the love of god, it was painful to try and wade through that just so I could get to a cool post and had relevance to Who! Granted, I'm no fan of seeing someone drop the "C" word but I can forgive and forget. Seriously, theres PLENTLY of interesting things to talk about Who related, as opposed to giving us a list of everyone that has been a crewmember of the TARDIS...just sayin'. Seriously, the show has such a rich history, it shouldn't be that hard to think of something we can discuss, can it? ;-)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:07 p.m. CST

    And MOV...

    by Red43jes

    Seriously, we wanna see Nikola Tesla. On Doctor Who. SOON. :-)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:09 p.m. CST

    I'm as bad as anyone else.

    by gotilk

    I mean in the sense that many years ago (heh... not THAT many) I'd show up in a forum, talkback, ect, essentially explain how everyone there is an idiot(simplifying things a bit there), then cry foul when I'd get banned/censored. I do my best not to now. Besides, we have a LOT of fun here and we've managed to build quite a community. Why try to bring nonsensical , inaccurate,hyper-critical negativity to the proceedings? I do my best not to. You should too.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:11 p.m. CST

    Nuff said.

    by gotilk

    See you fine folks a little later in the day. :)

  • Seriously, not a horrible character. Horrible outfit though. ;-)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:16 p.m. CST

    So, we're all agreed then?

    by Mister Vertue

    Merrick can add 'no one-word posting to bump up Docback figures' to his Docback Code of Conduct. Although I admit it was nice to see him hit the 3000 mark, maybe it wasn't done in the best way possible. Let's have quality over quantity from now on eh? Plus, you'll probably have a greater chance of asking a question and having it answered by someone if it's not drowned in a load of nonsense.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:20 p.m. CST

    Re: MOV's "So, we're all agreed then?"

    by Merrick

    *** Merrick can add 'no one-word posting to bump up Docback figures' to his Docback Code of Conduct. *** Probably a good idea - unless someone manages to convince me otherwise by the end of the day today, 'twill be done!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:28 p.m. CST

    MOV, Merrick - Adric?

    by DoctorTom

    You mean we're going to get to watch him die again? (I'm sure a lot of people will be happy with that.) <br> <br> I sincerely hope that this doesn't mean that Adric's the one behind the Silence; I don't think fandom would be ready for that. (Unless this is all Adric's plan for breaking the time lock on the Time War so that he can rescue the love of his life, the Master - oh yes he is, watch Adric in Castrovalva again).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:30 p.m. CST

    Curious (My question of the week)...

    by Red43jes

    So, we have had Sarah Jane show back up (Rest in Peace, Elisabeth Sladen), K-9...who would you like to see out of the Doctor's old companions come back for a visit? Mind you, I wouldn't want to see a TON of them show back up, but maybe a couple a season, like a sort of one old companion bumping into another old companion, then the Doctor shows (they sorta did that on the Sarah Jane adventures with Sarah Jane meeting Liz). Guys, who would you want?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:31 p.m. CST


    by Merrick

    Drop me an e-mail.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Just to clarify...

    by Mister Vertue

    We *were* joking about Adric. At least *I* was! I'm sure there's as much chance of The Rani coming back as Adric returning. Actually, make that an equal chance, as in 'equally unlikely'.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:34 p.m. CST

    The one companion I would like to see back

    by HornOrSilk


  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:37 p.m. CST

    Ian, Barbara, and Susan...

    by Red43jes

    hornorsilk, if you brought Ian back, wouldn't you need to bring Barbara and Susan as well? Hmmmm, the anniversary is coming back, too...

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:39 p.m. CST

    One companion I would like to see come back

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    would be the one companion that was ever kicked out of the TARDIS...Adam. You could have him come back with the grudge against the Doctor. Also, he still has the computer hook up in his head, so he could come back as a master hacker or something. Or comeback for five seconds, and just have him killed off by Ace.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:40 p.m. CST

    It would be hard to bring back Barbara

    by HornOrSilk

    Ian was going to come back alone for Mawdryn Undead, but then William couldn't make it so they quickly changed the story to fit the Brigadier. Ian, old, widower, having to deal with a young Doctor full of energy, willing to act contrary to how he taught Ian... Ian will be there to tell the Doctor, once again, what it's all about... as he did in the beginning.. this time to remind him how to keep low...

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Merrick, I'd say we're agreed

    by DoctorTom

    I would definitely keep the 'to bump up the DocBack figures' comment in with the rest. I suspect there might be some time where it would be appropriate. (Right now I'm thinking responses to a 'guess who the returning villain next season' type post might generate a one or two word response - with the first of two words being 'The'). <br> We know what's trying to be acccomplished here, but I'm just foreseeing a time when someone who doesn't frequent the board that much complains about being banned for trolling then asks why someone else hasn't been banned for a post saying only 'Omega" or something like that. (Again, this is only a hypothetical situation. I haven't seen this happen yet here but we should make sure the moment is prepared for).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Returnin of Adric / MOV

    by Merrick

    Yes. I was joking too.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:43 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    wish it were that easy for moffatbabies. He tried several time to get his acct back. I had no idea all you had to do was ask. In the talkback for a recently dead pop singer, he responded to trolls that he'd rather help *a junky get clean that help a (jerk like the trolls posting mean crap) change a tire in a snowstorm* and got banned for it. Now if anyone thinks that's a fair excuse, let me know. I've seen people post on talkbacks and not get banned for saying things that would be considered illegal in many states. But to get banned for saying you'd rather help a sick person than aN *expletive deleted*... Hmm. Methinks someone was asleep at the controls of the old cerebrum that day. Oh well, moffatbabies always did sound kinda like a stalkerish name anyway. Never really liked it. Just on principle though... kinda what many would call a *d*ck move*. If anyone is offering up acct help... I had my old e-mail hacked years ago and still have not got my *ILK* acct back after all these years. (I had it back in the years even before the Star Wars prequels and would love to have it back)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:46 p.m. CST

    red43jes - re: old companions coming back for a visit

    by DoctorTom

    Actually, I'd like to see Clyde (and possibly K-9) actually get to make an appearance in Doctor Who proper. He's done a good job in SJA and has interacted with the Doctor there, so it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of reason for him to interact with the Doctor again. <br> As for other companions, I'm a little bit of a rebel on this and would actually go for introducing companions and acquaintances from other Doctor Who media into the show. I'd love to see Lisa Bowerman play Bernice Summerfield, or Katy Manning play Iris Wildthyme in a Doctor Who story. I'd MUCH rather see Katy playing Iris instead of an older Jo Grant - I think she'd have a lot more fun playing Iris, and interactions between Iris and the 11th Doctor could be very interesting to see.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:47 p.m. CST

    I will agree with hornorsilk, though

    by DoctorTom

    on bringing back Ian. I think that doing this during the 50th anniversary would be a very nice thing indeed to have happen.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:48 p.m. CST

    I rather like Choppah's posts...

    by freerangecelt

    I hope he's back!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Well, Merrick.

    by gotilk

    The only question I would ask is ... What GOOD will it do anyone to ban that practice? Do you think it will *elevate the discourse* in some way? If so, can anyone explain how exactly? Sounds to me like it would just take some of the fun out without really doing anyone any REAL good. Personally, if multiple single word or duplicate posts are banned here.... I gotta say I'm out. Partly because someone who would come in here and suggest it called us all C*nTS.... partly because I don't see any good reason to do so. But mostly because someone who called us all C*NTS suggested it. It would seem kinda like a win for him. And if it is... then choppah can have 2 accts, get unbanned and you guys can enjoy him and I'll be gone. Good luck. Nothing personal. I ALWAYS will wish this community the best. Because it's the best. AND I'm sure there are arguments for it. But I think they pale in comparison to the fun/blast we've had here this year (and previous years).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Virgil Brigman back on the air.


    Thanks Merrick

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Ones that would be more problematical bringing back, though

    by DoctorTom

    would be ones that were Time Lords or related too much to the Time Lords. I'm not saying it's impossible, but given the Time War it makes it more problematical (though I'm sure Moffat could easily work around this). <br> This would include Romana and Susan (unfortunately, since it would make sense for her to be able to make an appearance in the 50th anniversary season as well as Ian), but could also include Leela since she stayed behind on Gallifrey with Andred. I could see her enjoying fighting a war with the Daleks.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    Adric is a great character...

    by gotilk

    and like many great characters in Who.... really horrible outfits. (and some fantastic too!)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Yeah choppah let's ust get past this

    by gotilk

    and get back to this community you've been SUCH a huge part of all these years.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Merrick - I know, but you COULD bring back Adric

    by DoctorTom

    For all we know, the Adric over in Pete's World is working for Torchwood (for all we know, that universe's Captain Jack accidentally fell through a CVE and found himself in a parallel E-Space connected to that universe) and is now acting a the gooseberry for handDoctor 10 and Rose.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:58 p.m. CST

    I like choppah's posts too. They're often hilarious. BUT

    by gotilk

    and this is why I hate editing/deleting posts. He did call you all C*NTS. But the post was deleted and he was banned.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 1:59 p.m. CST

    And while I might think McCoy was the fourth greatest Doctor

    by gotilk

    I'd never call anyone here a C*NT.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    So how does it feel to be sabotaged?

    by gotilk

    By someone who doesn't even participate? Fun for you? Seem fair? Cool.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:04 p.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    I know nobody is saying you can't respond with one word answers. I'm just pointing out that you you want to make sure what's posted in the DocBack code of conduct can't be misconstrued to say that. If the 'to bump up the DocBack figures' part of the phrase were accidentally dropped, then it would be saying that. Surely it's okay to point out that we don't want the rules to have the potential to be misread that way, isn't it?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:05 p.m. CST



    Choppah speaks for himself..I called no one HERE cunts. Get THAT shit straight right defuck now. i called the people who so impassionately dragged the discussion to a halt by posting spamming shit just to be on top of a thread board. I'm not trying to draw a line in the sand here but yeah--you were one of them. And yeah, I dont come here often to talk Who cause basically that spamming shit kills it..its pointless. Its immature..and most of all, its beneath a show thats been on for over 40 years. Passionate and intelligent discussion as well as analysis of a show that has collectively over 700 epsiodes should be easy to come by. We shouldnt have to resort to such gimmicks. Regardless, its fixed now. And we can all get along with the serial discussion. Which is why we are here in the first place.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:07 p.m. CST

    I believe the precise message was


    bring on the triple posting $%^ts to get to the top of the TB heap!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:08 p.m. CST

    Just for the record.


  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:11 p.m. CST

    gotilk - Adric (to be honest)

    by DoctorTom

    Was okay when he was with Tom Baker, when Bidmead was script editing. The whole dynamic changed, though, when Nyssa and Tegan were added as companions, Peter Davi(d)son's Doctor not being as forceful as Baker's, and the the new script editors and writers allowing Adric to turn into a whining creep who keeps picking the wrong side in the adventures. (I blame Saward mainly, he's the biggest proponent of having characters bickering in the console room take the place of real drama).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Choppah, gotilk, how about if we just drop it all right now

    by DoctorTom

    Choppah, to be honest, you two keeping going on about this is just as bad a spamming as the one word posts you're complaining about. Worse, actually, since the one word posts were usually forming full sentences that sometimes related to Doctor Who. <br> This grousing and sniping, however, has gotten weary quite fast, and doesn't have any releveance to this thread any more. <br> If you two want to settle differences, can you take it outside to emails, or one of the non-Docback threads?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Addendum to that

    by DoctorTom

    I don't want to see either one of you kicked off the board, since I do (outside of this specific spat between you two) like reading what the two of you post. I'm just hoping it can all be dropped and that everybody can move beyond this.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:19 p.m. CST


    by Merrick

    When people e-mail or communicate with me directly, and if I feel those people are sincere in their desire to participate in the Docbacks according to the rules, I*tend* to re-instate them. In Choppah's case...we've communicated to my satisfaction, he's made an effort, and I'm willing to move on. That story could change depending on how the matter plays out in the future. There have been a number of Docbackers who were banned and subsequently re-instated - we've had no issue with them again. There have also been a number of people who were banned, re-instated, and found themselves banned again permanently because they didn't play fairly once they got their second chance. Finally, a few petulant individuals who showed nothing but hostility towards my effort after being banned...don't find reprieve at all. I.e. there's *a lot* which goes into these matter behind the scenes - the "face value" you see here on the Docbacks is only the beginning, or the end...however that works. As for banning the single word post practice? Well, for one thing, I often have to moderate from a mobile iPhone or an iPad...and it's very difficult to wade through all the posts which don't convey substance given the way our site software interacts with my mobile devices. Secondly, several users today have expressed frustration with the practice you're referring to. I don't want Docback participants to be frustrated by the Docback experience in any way, whether it's in the mood/snark of the Docbacks, or their ability to physically utilize the Docbacks with ease on their systems. BTW: you mention moffatbabies. Never wrote to me or communicated with me that I can recall.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Merrick, I just finished listening to the podcast. Good stuff!

    by DoctorTom

    It will definitely be something I'll want to listen to in the future!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:31 p.m. CST

    doctortom - THANKS!

    by Merrick

    Definitely more on the way - was fun doing it! Will post links - weekly?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:37 p.m. CST

    So here I am apologizing for bringing last week's Docback... back...

    by wtriker1701

    Sorry, had never done that before, got caught in the moment... But I will refrain from doing so in the (near) future. Funny, that while I did it, this discussion came along on this Docback... now I feel... well not that good. Point taken, let's go on with real meaning!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:57 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    Fair enough. AND I take back my little tirade about *leaving* if the practice of single word posts or multiple duplicates is frowned upon. I'm not in the best of moods and I personally dislike it when outsiders come into communities to disrupt things. But I'm man enough to just go with the flow for the sake OF community as well. And I'm sorry, again this is why I hate posts being deleted. He DID call us C*NTS. Revise all you want, Choppsies. But that's what you said. Apologize... or re-phrase. But you said it.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 2:58 p.m. CST

    See,now we have a great contributor apologizing

    by gotilk

    (wtriker1701) already.... for doing what?? I'll go with whatever is decided. But I think that's BS.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:04 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    Sorry for being a headache for you at the moment, if I am. And no I did not communicate with you about moffatbabies acct, because it was banned in another TB. And actually I'm really over it. I just brought it up because I was bitter for a moment. BUT what you say about moderating from a mobile device actually makes perfect sense. And when it's just single word post, I can imagine it would be frustrating. On the other hand... I have seen DocBacks come back to life because of such efforts. So... we just have to decide.. is it worth it? If not , personally I'm behind whatever you decide. I am STILL bothered however by someone coming into this community , calling us C*NTS, then dictating new rules for us. Then being listened to and considered a moment later, whether or not said rule makes sense. Just doesn't sit well with me. Shouldn't.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:07 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    I love ya, man. But ... really? I didn't show up here and call all of you C*NTS, which I cannot prove now and he can deny because it's been deleted. If I had.... I'd agree with you. Now the rules will probably change. If you're okay with that... great. I'm not but I'll live with it.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:09 p.m. CST

    You'll poke your eye out , kid.

    by gotilk

    Just noticed that juxtaposition. lol

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST



    this was the first post in this thread.. Oct 14, 2011 11:25:40 AM CDT bring on the triple posting %$#*! by the_choppah to get to the top of the TB heap read it. now read it again. take a sip of cola. reread. take that how you want doesnt apply to the people who do not partake in that action or (as you have seen) frown upon it.. if you do triple post or spam to extend the length of a thread or derail it..then YES the above statement does indeed apply to you. Regardless, it has come to light that that action is not wanted in the future. you can either show you have sand and join us in our discussion of All Things Who or you can take your ball and go home.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:11 p.m. CST

    Also, tone can be SO hard to convey in text.

    by gotilk

    I tend to think I do a fairly good job of it. But I honestly am NOT as angry as some may think. I just like this community a LOT... and don't like people showing up to cause trouble, then trying to shift blame elsewhere.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:19 p.m. CST

    By the looks of how this docback is headed.....

    by Michael_Jacksons_Ghost

    I will see ya next week. Cheers

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:20 p.m. CST



    im not trying to cause trouble. on the contrary--i am trying to make this thread more build the community for everyone to partake. But maybe thats not what you want. Perhaps you like the exclusivity of the thread. Whatevs. I'm just trying to cut some of the fat off of the thread. I too, like Merrick, also browse on my mobile phone and having to wade through inane comments that have no substance whatsoever is annoying as shit...clicking on a single post, only to find out nothing is there..fuck that. i hope in the future that you will see that these changes (suggested by me--sure--but wanted by most) are for the better. let's move on, shall we? what did YOU think of The Aztecs?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:37 p.m. CST



    Are we going in order or just skipping around chronologically? Dalek's Master Plan, the Time Meddler and the Ark are three of my faves in the the first doc's adventures. Also a big fan of The Gunslingers, just because it differs so much from the rest of the series.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:38 p.m. CST

    I'm back in the Closing Time thread

    by DoctorTom

    putting up more comments about the Doctor Who stories, in order (except when I screw up and get them out of order). At least there we've been talking about Doctor Who related things lately, the few of us who had been in there. <br> I'll keep an eye out here, and will put more here if we actually get back to talking about Doctor Who.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:41 p.m. CST



    no need to run off..bring the party over here... lets get it going.

  • ...which I may say, the vast majority of us have adhered to since we all agreed upon its use for the common good of the threads. It is what keeps most of us returning here week after week after week. It is available to view at the top of the page, and as one who has been guilty of previously "bending" its rules, I too know just how disheartening things can be taken by others and the reactions that occur as a result of it. They're not nice. That did it for me. The once was enough. Break the rules once, get a warning- fine. Be unrepentant about things........ well, be it on your head. But guys, we don't need ANOTHER rule in place here as the ones we have have sufficed well enough for the last year or so. We eliminate most of the trolls and our threads are THE place to be on AICN. I wasn't here for the Choppahs (unfortunate) post, but it is apparent that he has rankled a few here on the TB as we have been used to other ways of conducting ourselves. For me, if it seemed like an attack the yes, Merrick had every right to wield the ban-hammer. It is then up to the Choppah to state his case IN PRIVATE should he wish to be let back in. It is what we do here ladies and gentlemen. I am all for others joining our community. It is what makes us great- welcoming others with gusto and making them part of our online family. But play by the rules!! If not, you've got yourself to blame. Take it from one who knows. Choppah- I welcome you here. But enough rules are enough rules in my humble opinion. If I desire to post a one word response and it is in context to my friends then sir, I shall do so. Let's all play nice here- we are above such stupidity and silly rubbish. SJW.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Guys, I will be back tomorrow to see if things have calmed down here....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...hopefully you will all be able to get back on track and enjoy the hell out of this thread. There was enough negativity in the "wedding" thread. Let's not bring it here. Until tomorrow. SJW.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:01 p.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    actually, this week in the other thread I started going through the Doctor Who stories sequentially, making some comments - snarky and otherwise- on each of them. I had done the first two Doctors' stories earlier. I wanted to continue with this over in that thread, and keeping them going on in the thread I started them in seemed more appropriate. <br> I'll still hang around here, though.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:02 p.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    Hope you're doing well! <br> I'm looking forward to seeing more posting from you later.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:12 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    Yeah, LET'S.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:14 p.m. CST



    Ok, WE WILL.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:15 p.m. CST

    I'm wih SJW here on this.

    by gotilk

    And I'm going to conduct myself as always. Which is, I'm sure others can attest to, pretty dang friendly and welcoming/inclusive. NO NEW RULES!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:16 p.m. CST

    My past behaviour speaks for itself.

    by gotilk

    If someone wants to show up and cast dispersions, so be it. But you guys know better.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Sorry, gotilk, I have to be pedantic for a minute

    by DoctorTom

    did you mean to say 'cast DISpersions', or did you mean 'cast Aspersions'? There's quite a big difference between the two. I deal with dispersions at work - they can be quite messy if you cast them (especially at someone). ;)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 5:29 p.m. CST

    Guys, with respect...

    by Red43jes

    Theres nothing worse than waiting for your phone to LOAD One Word At A Time While You Wade Through Garbage To Read One Thread That Has Something Worthwhile... Again, just sayin'. I know you all wanted to keep the thread running, but rules or no rules, if its gonna be like that, I'm gonna get bored with the Docbacks real quick. I like a LOT of what people have to say, I don't care if there is a rule or not, can we keep the thread stretching like that to nil? Again, PLENTY of things to ask, point out, etc. Jeez, I'd go for the sexiest man legs on Who over thread stretching.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Sexiest Who legs?


    Tennent's, natch

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Nope, that's not even close, the_choppah, the sexiest legs are:

    by DoctorTom

    The Zarbi! <br> <br>

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:13 p.m. CST

    Or, if you want to extend it to sexiest limbs, the clear winner is

    by DoctorTom

    Alpha Centauri. <br> <br> <br> Captain Jack would do him/her!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:24 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    Yes I did. OOPS! lol Yes, dispersions can be messy. I would do my best to revert any dispersions in my workplace. ...ahem... I mean avert.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:27 p.m. CST

    red43jes I disagree

    by gotilk

    I think the worst thing is using a phone for Internet and expecting magic. Not there yet. Close.No cigar. iPads are nice. But most phones I've tried (iPhone, android based phones) are slow, clunky and pretty crap for reading any talkback, let alone DOCback, which can be wordy no matter what you have to scroll through. I still say NO new rules.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Sexiest Who legs?

    by gotilk

    Tennant close second to Amy Pond. I bet his are stronger though.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:30 p.m. CST

    and that took too much time to scroll through for me

    by gotilk


  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:35 p.m. CST

    And brought back from the other thread its

    by HornOrSilk

    Blue Ball Day Special

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:43 p.m. CST

    Intellect and Romance over Brute Force and Cynicism

    by DoctorTom

    I like how they used that as the end theme on the special <br> (home now - can finally stream the youtubes on a computer)

  • <br> <br> It's kind of a shame he's using the idea here, I think he should have done the story as a Doctor Who story, and used President Nixon as the main character (plus, you could have Canton Everett Delaware III reappear in that case)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:50 p.m. CST

    I just waded through this entire mess and...

    by DewMan89

    It's ironic how people can fill a talkback with useless flotsam arguing over a post someone made intended to be a protest of talkback practices that generate useless flotsam.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:58 p.m. CST

    it's even more ironic when

    by DoctorTom

    people filling the talkback with useless flotsam talking about people filling the talkback with useless flotsam arguing over a post protesting talkback practices generating useless flotsam. <br> Oh, I guess this is a post filling the talkback with useless flotsam about THOSE people. <br> <br> <br> (This limited version of recursion has been sponsored by the story Castrovalva, and the M.C. Escher Foundation.)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 6:59 p.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    But didn't you also like how they showed what Amy and Rory were talking about.. like.. she didn't wear a dress? ;)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Yes, the phone is SLOW....

    by Red43jes

    BUT when your at work and school a lot, its the easiest way to go. Keep in mind, I don't have a disposable income anymore...I do have a PC, but I tend to be able to use my phone more. I'm sure other people do as well. I could care less as to if we rule or no rule thread stretching, rather, I'm appealing to people to spare some of us so we can read the good stuff.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 7:29 p.m. CST

    So far in this Docback

    by Ithrat Cordwallis

    There appears to have been about two posts about the aztecs. So let me add something- unlike a number of other serial from the same era, this one holds up well without too manyover juvenile escapes, and there is some excitement o be had from the companions less passive roles this time around. Oh, and the closing time thread hasn'topened on any of my machines for about a fortnight, phone or no, althoug I have been assuming there's nowt worth missing in there. Here, however, we've had chopped turning into

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 7:41 p.m. CST

    John Ash

    by Ithrat Cordwallis

    and id add more but i hate my phone.Also Ian and Barbara can't return as a result of Death if the Doctor. Maybe. Oh, and hi, everyone! Don't make it too cliquey in here, y'hear?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 7:55 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    That's not what happened. He called SOME of us C*NTS (if we fit the bill??? doesn't cut it, not an apology), then wanted the rules to change for him at the same time. That's what happened. No revision will change that. But thanks for bringing it back up. Love ya anyway.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 8 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    would be banning someone and refusing to unban them. I think. But I could be wrong. If someone wants to feel welcome, coming in the room and calling people names is not a good start. Done.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 8:15 p.m. CST

    I came home to find "The Talons of Weng-Chiang" in my mailbox.

    by The Transformed Man

    This marks the first time I've bought a DW story on DVD twice. Watching the extras right now.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 8:25 p.m. CST

    Let it go gotilk


    I put the post clear as day up there exactly as it was this afternoon. Timestamp and all. No revision. No nuffin. People can see and judge for themselves. And I didn't demand the rules be changed for me alone. I simply threw a suggestion into the think tank. It isn't My Way or The Highway. It seems that many people including Merrick Didn't like the spamming interfering with their discussions. What do you get out of it I ask by spamming and post bombing a thread? Without it, I and many others, including some newcomers, get to enjoy WhoTalk without having. To. Open. Every.single. Post. Stop trying to get people on your side by telling them I insulted them. If you'd just drop it and stop whining about getting banned years ago you'd come off less a poor sport. I'm not apologizing for bringing to light a massive annoyance in this thread. Had I been banned permanently, it still would've been worth it.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 8:31 p.m. CST

    Happy Friday Docbakers!

    by The_Mad_Groper

    If this post sounds a little weird I have a good excuse as I just had 3 wisdom teeth cut out this morning and I am on the good stuff! But I wanted to jump in and wish you guys a great day and hope to be back in with a little clearer head tomorrow. Merrick, great job with the podcast! You guys sound just like my friends and I when we get going on all the subjects that get us goin! I tried streaming Aztecs on netflix and it just kept jumping all over the place for me. Planning on renting the DVD if I can so I can watch it like it should be. Netflix always seems to do this but only when its something I REALLY want to watch.... if I dont really care one way or another I have no problems.... I'm beginning to think the CEO is on the same drug I am at the moment considering all the wacked out decisions he's been making lately! Again, back tomorrow and you guys have fun with the docback! :)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 8:54 p.m. CST

    companions from other media

    by The Transformed Man

    I want Frobisher. Just once. Do it. Please. Frobisher is awesome.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 8:58 p.m. CST

    I always kind of liked Adric's math star.

    by The Transformed Man

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 9:13 p.m. CST

    sexiest Who legs

    by The Transformed Man


  • Oct. 14, 2011, 9:37 p.m. CST

    The Aztecs

    by The Transformed Man

    Somewhere (possibly an article?), I saw someone say that this story is perhaps the first instance in which we see that the Doctor needs someone to stop him, as Donna Noble said. I do love this story. I rented it a couple of years ago and bought the DVD this year but haven't watched it yet. I'll try to fix that this week.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 9:40 p.m. CST

    So it this like the new LOST-backs?

    by D.Vader

  • ** the_mad_groper: THANK YOU! Everyone's kind words re: the podcast are very much appreciated. ** thetransformedman: this release of TALONS...recently remastered I gather? vastly superior in image & sound to the 2003 DVD release. I think you'll be quite happy. ** All: Just finished the first episode of THE FADES. Produced by Caroline Skinner (incoming WHO producer). Rather slow-burn, but really, really liking it. Onto more eps...

  • 'It seems that many people including Merrick Didn't like the spamming interfering with their discussions.' <br> This statement is filled with distortions and fabrications. You're complaining about spamming and there might be some point, but, as Merrick pointed out, this was in threads that we had decided to keep on the list so that there were multiple lists going at the same time. The instances you cited didn't start until September 30, the day the Wedding of River Song thread went up, and the post count had reached about 1200. And, there were only minor things that day, you didn't see a large outbreak until October 1st. <br> Merrick certainly had no problem with them going on at the time. In fact, he posted on October 9 (well after all of this had been going on a while) and his comment was (in a comment to Caractuspotts): <br> 'But... <br> 3000...' <br> <br> That doesn't sound like Merrick was annoyed at the posting at that time, or at least gave us no indication in the thread. So please don't try to claim he was. <br> <br> It should also be noted that there were no discussions going on that the so-called spamming would have interfered with. The Closing Time thread was brought back from the grave, so to speak. There were other threads for discussions, where more current discussions were going on. The 'discussions' going on were primarily between the people that you would have labeled as 'spamming'. Any of the discussions you are talking about were going on in the more recent threads, and if anybody was going into the old thread to complain, it was purposefully to go in with the intent to be offended by the activities, not because they were going to that thread to have a discussion that was being interrupted. That was going on in the more recent Doctor Who threads. <br> <br> You have a right to your own opinion, but you don't have a right to your own facts. You're not telling the truth about the facts as they are. That doesn't help your case at all. <br> <br> <br> Merrick, I'm sorry I had to go rant like this and that your name became involved, but the falsehoods and misrepresentations here I found highly offensive and not conducive, and it needed to be challenged. <br> I've asked for this matter to be dropped before, but it still hasn't. In fact, with statements like this I think the situation's only getting worse. Merrick, wouldn't it be reasonable at this point for this whole situation with Gotilk and the_choppah to be declared a topic not to be brought up again? People are already being driven away from the thread because of what's going on so far. I'd like to think that if the matter could be declared officially off limits now that we might be able to bring some of the other people back for discussing Doctor Who - the subject that should be the REAL topic in the thread.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Hello, mad groper!

    by DoctorTom

    I hope you're not feeling too bad tomorrow when the drugs wear off! <br> <br> I don't know if you have an Amazon Prime membership, but I just checked and it looks like The Aztecs is one of the titles you can stream from Amazon for free if you have a Prime Membership with them. This might save you the money on a rental (though you'll have a higher video quality with a rental).

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:06 p.m. CST

    d.vader - yeah, it's like LOST - the same kind of affection!

    by wtriker1701

    But, alas, there's no finale to mourn about, as Doctor Who is still doing strong... as it has over its nearly 50 years by now...

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:06 p.m. CST

    oooh, Frobisher! I LIKE that idea, thetransformedman

    by DoctorTom

    I always liked him, and loved it when they slipped him into a couple of Big Finish audios. He'd be possible now with CGI, but with BBC cutbacks they'd probably have to have him looking like a human for most of the episode in order to have enough budget to do it.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:07 p.m. CST

    BTW, single post spams are ridiculous

    by D.Vader

    And quite stupid. I'm glad that will be ending.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:07 p.m. CST


    by D.Vader

    Damn cat stepped on the enter button.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:13 p.m. CST

    Oh but there will be, wtriker1701... there will be

    by D.Vader


  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:14 p.m. CST

    In the meantime, though, wtriker...

    by D.Vader

    I've got a shitload of WHO to catch up on. I haven't seen any of the new Doc other than the premiere last year.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:16 p.m. CST

    doctortom, regarding Frobisher

    by The Transformed Man

    Maybe they could afford a brief cameo if nothing else. I LOVE the voice actor who played him in the audios. If it ever does happen, I hope they use him.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:26 p.m. CST

    Re "The Aztecs," why no mention ...

    by berserkrl

    of Ian's discovery of the Vulcan nerve pinch?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:31 p.m. CST

    Merrick - Talons of Weng Chiang remastered

    by DoctorTom

    It was actually released in England a year ago in the first Revisitations box set. These were early DVD releases (in the UK) that could use a better transfer now; they weren't up to the standards that they use now. That was the same set that had the Paul McGann movie in it as well a remastered The Caves of Androzani. They released the Paul McGann movie here close to that time (since it hadn't been released in the US on DVD at that time, the closest there had been was a Canadian release), but they didn't release the remastered stories then. <br> They've released a second Revisitations box set back in March, with remastered versions of Resurrection of the Daleks, Carnival of Monsters and Seeds of Death. I ended up buying the R2 version of this since there hadn't been any move on releasing the other DVDs from the 1st Revisitations set and no mention of these getting a release in the US. <br> The remastered versions of the stories I watched were cleaned up from before, with a better transfer. There are also extras on the sets now that weren't there originally. With Talons of Weng Chiang Remastered coming out over here now, maybe they'll eventually release the other remastered versions here. <br> <br> I just got my copy of the remastered Talons of Weng Chiang and will probably watch it this weekend. I'm curious to see if they retained the extra where they show the Howard DaSilva introductions and Next Time comments on the episodes; I think that the original release of this was the only DVD to include these extras, so would be the only release to show people now what those of us who were watching Doctor Who in the late 70s to early 80s were seeing on Public Television. Given the reaction many people have to the Amy Pond introduction inclusion to the American Season 6 broadcasts, I'm not sure how these same people would have reacted watching the shows with the DaSilva narrations. At the time, we didn't know any better in America and thought they were all done that way.

  • Everybody knows Vulcan didn't exist until they had the Doctor land on the planet in Power of the Daleks. ;)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:35 p.m. CST

    HAT #772 (salvaged from the Doctine)

    by veteran_of_mu

    Since many folk don't have browsers or machines powerful enough to participate in the Doctine, this may come as news to some folk. You all know the Tick Tock nursery rhyme now. But have you ever heard it before? I went looking for it because a lot of nursery rhymes have interesting back stories. And ... it doesn't exist. You don't believe me, go google it yourself. If you can find anything like the Tick Tock song dating from any time earlier than 2011, I'll owe you a toblerone. Though I did find a tweet containing some of the lyrics earlier in the year from Gatiss .... But that sure is a familiar sounding rhyme, isn't it? Indeed it is traditional - but the real lyrics are: See Saw Marjorie Daw Johnny shall have a new master Johnny earns but a penny a day Because he can't work any faster Johnny (John Smith) shall have a new Master ... Now the drums have been silenced ...

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:36 p.m. CST



    I was merely pointing out that after I brought the spamming issue up, many people agreed with me saying they are quite annoying. Even Merrick sees they are kinda pointless. You say these shenanigans are occurring in threads well past their discussion prime. So be it. The whole point of the TB leader board is to see what's popular and what has interesting conversations in it. If a random persOn saw a month old Who TB at the top, he would assume a kickass discussion would be a click away. This is half true--it usually starts with good intentions and devolves into spamming. I and many others including YES Merrick have given many reasons why spamming is the nadir of a TB thread. I have yet to see a rational and sound reason WHY spamming SHOULD be allowed. Please enlighten me.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:37 p.m. CST

    sam jacksons wig and hornorsilk-thank you

    by Greg

    SJW You just mentioned the welcoming nature of the Docbacks, and you were kind enough to welcome me during the Wedding of River Song Docback. I apologize for not thanking you then. I realize that the combination of the Five Doctors and the 96 TV movie are a strange combination. Thank you, hornorsilk for still going ahead and offering some recommendations. I fully intended to watch City of Death, but ended up finishing up The Curse of Fenric instead. It started really slow for me but once things picked up I really got into it. Loved the ending. After being used to the rapid pacing in much (most?) of newer Who I didn't know what to make of the slow build at first. Is that fairly common to Classic Dr. Who? Anyway, thanks guys, and hope to read some interesting and positive discussion here when I check back tomorrow.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:39 p.m. CST


    by Merrick

    *** why no mention of Ian's discovery of the Vulcan nerve pinch? *** Was attempting to preserve the joy of discovery. Along with The Doctor's lovely relationship with Cameca.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:40 p.m. CST



    Btw--this matter has been dropped by me. It's only when gotilk pipes up about me calling the entire thread see you next Tuesdays. I'm not whitewashing anything or being revisionist..I just wanna talk about Who.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:42 p.m. CST

    My Magnus Greel and Mr. Sin action figures just came out of the display case.

    by The Transformed Man

    And I'm reminded of how fortunate I am that these exist. Even if it wasn't until my mid-30's. Wish they'd make a figure of Tom in his outfit from this episode.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:48 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    I'm a huge fan of "City of Death". "Curse of Fenric" is great too, and "The God Complex" from series 6 seemed to harken back to that story.

  • Seemed to me like everything was wrapped up and addressed. I would go so far as to say that if that had to be an overall 'series' (in the north american meaning) finale for the entire show that would have been a pretty solid way to end it, especially with the doctors mysterious smile right after the final 'DOC-TOR WHO!'

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:54 p.m. CST


    by berserkrl

    Mark Gatiss has already publicly stated that he wrote the verses (at least the ones in his episode) so it's not that big a surprise that you couldn't find an earlier version online.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:55 p.m. CST

    My final thought on one word posts, etc.

    by Merrick

    Whether they're silly or not, I didn't have any problems with them at the time - although they DID impede my ability to access those threads on mobile devices. Apparently, other users also found this to be the case. I *do* have problems with one word posts now that a number of people have dragged the issue into the light. Therefore, I must address such concerns, as I truly want the Docbacks to remain hassle-free for everyone. In my mind, no one did anything wrong regarding said posts and no one should feel apologetic that said posts happened. But now that people have voiced negative opinions on the matter, it's easier just to address the issue, curtail the practice, and move on. No finger pointing is required, no explanations are necessary. This REALLY, TRULY ISN'T as big a deal on my end as it seems to have become here on the boards. I love you guys, but this particular Docback is stressing the hell out of me - over unnecessary and heinously misproportioned issues. I'd really love it...and would feel my efforts on the Docbacks to be warmly validated...if we could just close the door on single post discussions...and whether or not Choppah did whatever...and MOVE ON. Just like a number of people tried to do earlier today. If we lose our ability to "let things go," or to see beyond the passions of a moment, this Docback thing is never, ever going to hold together in the long run. And that would be a terrible shame. Here's hoping for a better tomorrow.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Just rewatched BLINK, something odd I noticed

    by Rebel Scumb

    They went to great trouble to set up and continually visually reference the mirror in the wester-drumland house by the front door. And a mirror seems like the most logical defense against the weeping angels (just stand it up in front of them and they are trapped) and yet this never gets addressed, which in and of itself is not bad (far from it, since this is as perfect an episode of television as is ever likely to be made) but it's just odd that the director (and I presume Moffat as well) spent so much time establishing the presence of the mirror, even though storywise it never figures in at all. I wonder if its a hold over from a previous draft or something?

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 10:59 p.m. CST

    @rebel scumb

    by berserkrl

    Maybe it's just to reinforce the theme of vision that runs not just through that episode but through Moffat's two most recent seasons (beginning with the Doctor confronting a giant eyeball and ending with him inside a giant eyeball). A theme device, not a plot device.

  • I'm pretty sure it was a different name in the credits, but he is somewhat of a chamelon so its hard for me to tell if that's him under all the makeup

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:01 p.m. CST

    could be beserkrl

    by Rebel Scumb

    I guess it could also have been a red herring, and again, in no way a 'flaw' of the episode, it just always seemed strange to me.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Hi all

    by Kevin Bolinger

    Wow, I miss this earlier and look at all the drama, thankfully now cleared up. These Docbacks are the best of the best on AICN, and it is for a good reason, we all know how to intelligently argue. Anyway, I have never The Aztecs, yet...still trying to watch all of the classic who stuff...Only ones I ever go through fully were all of the 3rd Doctor and all of the 6th...have gotten through half of 4th , 5th and 7th...and all of NuWho obviously. And to MOV, yea, Tesla would make an interesting historical figure to throw into a standalone episode...put a bug in the Moff's ear ;)

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:27 p.m. CST

    Gatiss as Space Viking

    by berserkrl

    Yes, there's online footage of him getting made up and chatting about his appearances on the show. Obviously you are insufficiently geeky!

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:41 p.m. CST

    icyhot - the Classic series

    by DoctorTom

    Yes, you'll generally find that all of the the older Doctor Who stories are paced more slowly, especially if you get to the early days. Part of it was running time - most stories were at least 4 25 minute episodes, so there was a lot of time to fill. That's why you'll often see a lot of escaping and recapturing of the Doctor and/or his companions (especially in John Pertwee 6 part stories). Television had been evolving over all this time; when Doctor Who started, television was still treated much more like recording a play rather than like shooting a movie. You can see this reflected in how the Hartnell serials were shot. People were used to having scenes take their time and essentially filming just talking heads. The Troughton story The Space Pirates liked to emulate the reality of space travel, unfortunately, NASA style space travel of the time was relatively much slower than what you'd get with warp drives and what not, so in copying the feel, the show itself felt like it was moving like molasses. <br> <br> Star Wars was the first sf show to really start showing a lot more scenes put together in a shorter period of time. You started seeing this show up with the Davison story Earthshock, which had many more scenes for the amount of running time than the shows before it. And still, it took more time for that to work into common usage in television. <br> Doctor Who went to having some 3 part stories at the end, with Sylvester McCoy. This was another attempt to pick up the pace. <br> After being off the air for a while, when Doctor Who came back, the entire dialog for television had changed. You've had the effect of Doctor Who and countless other movies, filtered through shows like the newer Star Trek brands, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Babylon 5 and Farscape. The standard amount of time for a television show became about 45 minutes (enough time to allow for commercials in a 1 hour broadcast in the United States and other countries with commercial television channels). Audiences also weren't assumed to be unknowledgeable; it was possible to pick up the pace of stories and not have to stop things to explain every single detail. You now tend to cram what was about 90 - 100 minutes worth of story before into 45 minutes now. <br> The pace has picked up, and some of the older conventions have gone by the wayside. Newer conventions have risen up to replace them. The Doctor has psychic paper now to help him through most of the delicate situations, where before the show might take at least half of an episode having the Doctor jailed while other things happen. Likewise, the sonic screwdriver had disappeared during the 5th Doctor's tenure because they claimed it was too much of a crutch for the Doctor (back when it didn't have 1/3 of the functions it has now) when what they actually meant that it was too hard for them to come up with ideas to keep the Doctor occupied and they'd rather be able to throw in in a cell for a while in each story in order to kill some time. The sonic screwdriver came back with the new series because with the shorter time allowed for each story, there isn't the time to waste with throwing the Doctor in a cell all the time. This is just like there isn't the time for the Doctor to have to ingratiate himself into whatever heirarchy he's around when he can whip out his instant authority card (except for the times when story purposes require it to not work), and the sonic screwdriver now also works like a Star Trek tricorder because it can instantly provide the information the plot needs to let a story move more quickly. <br> So, to try to sum it up in a short sentence, yes, the older stories move more slowly, but that was the way it was deliberately structured back then. Hopefully you get a slow burn with a good story, while some stories just turn out to be a damp squib.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:44 p.m. CST

    rebel - on the mirror

    by DoctorTom

    it's probably a good thing the mirror didn't get established any more than it was. With what got added in Season 5, an image of a Weeping Angel in the mirror would have become a Weeping Angel itself. The trick wouldn't work; there'd be more to watch, and if you blink or turn your head the mirror image Angel might get a better shot at you than the original.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:49 p.m. CST

    I just watched The Wedding of River Song again

    by DoctorTom

    it's nice picking up some of the details. I didn't notice before what looked like cuneiform on the walls and windows of the shop with the television showing the Meredith Viera story, but instead of normal pictograms they were pictograms of technological things like boomboxes, monitors and the like. The television also had the brand name Technika, which I don't think is an actual brand in our world (at least it didn't pop up as an electronics brand in a google search). <br> It's definitely one of Moffat's traits to like to bury a lot of background information in spots where it won't be very visible, or visible for long (all the stuff on the sign about Nile Penguins, the warnings about the sonic screwdriver in Demon's run saying 1) It's not sonic and 2) It's not a screwdriver). I think some of these are just meant to be little Easter eggs to amuse those of us who actually go out looking for them.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:52 p.m. CST

    @berserkrl Oh, I know Gatiss wrote that ep. But ...

    by veteran_of_mu

    Given the motif ran through the second half of the arc it's fair to think Moff had a hand in it. There was too much emphasis from both Kovarian and Churchill on the song being ~Old~ even though it's not. I think it's a tell.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Darthdevious - hello!

    by DoctorTom

    Hope you're doing well! <br> The Aztecs is considered to be one of the better Hartnell stories, and this is because of the quality involved in the writing and the acting. The BBC was good at doing historicals, and tended to handle these better than the 'future' stories (part of that was due to the attitude in the 60's that the future is going to be a lot of sterile white buildings - people were thinking 2001: A Space Odyssey then and not considering that the future might look like Blade Runner. So, the historical stories often had sumtuous sets while sets for the future shows would tend to be sterile, plain corridors without much ornamentation.

  • Oct. 14, 2011, 11:58 p.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    I'm sure it's fair to say there was a lot of collaboration between Gatiss and Moffat with the song, and that Moffat asked for the song to be there even if Gatiss wrote it. You had another verse of the same song at the end of TWORS. <br> <br> Come to think of it, the tick tock verse reminds me of the girl singing '2, 4, 6, 8, there's a Doctor at the gate' in Remembrance of the Daleks.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Is anybody else going with a Doctor Who theme on Halloween?

    by The Transformed Man

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 2:17 a.m. CST

    Merrick- for you sir, anything...

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...absolutely anything. In the words of Sir paul McCartney " IAM THE WALRUS....COOOKOOCACHOOOOO!!!" that was the wrong one.... ..oh yes- Let it be!!!!! (so)

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 3:55 a.m. CST

    icyhot -- you are welcome

    by HornOrSilk

    Yes, the show is slower paced, in a classical drama fashion. There are episodes which are much faster paced (Caves of Androzani is one), but, for old Who one appreciates the story like one does with a classical novel.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 7:46 a.m. CST


    by Mister Vertue

    Was indeed Gantok the Viking, but was not credited under his real name (I've forgotten what name he used, but he chose it for a reason). And the 'tick tock' song was a collaboration between Gatiss and Moffat, with Moffat dictating the desired content and Gatiss actually writing it. Tesla appearing in an episode? As we all know, anything and everything is possible with this show, so it could happen some day.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 7:53 a.m. CST

    thetransformedman - no, however.....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ....I will go as the 9th Doc to our Xmas party this year. I choose the 9th because I own a very similar leather jacket and have short close cropped hair. To go as the 10th or 11th would be futile... Hope you are well!!

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 7:56 a.m. CST


    by sam jacksons wig

    ****Hopefully you get a slow burn with a good story, while some stories just turn out to be a damp squib.**** Or just plain shit, like Meglos. :))

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:02 a.m. CST

    MOV- welcome back!!!! .....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ...I guessed a while back (and believe it was in one of the threads) that the viking Gantok (although I didn't know his name) was Mark Gatiss after looking really really hard at his mouth. Mr Gatiss has a peculiar grin which is pretty much one of a kind, and no amount of latex or makeup can disguise it. I do think that the show did one hell of a job with the look. He was pretty much indistinguishable, although no stranger to make up from his League of gentleman days. What have you been doing with your time, if you don't mind me asking? Last we saw of you (or should I say I saw of you) the circumstances weren't particularly pleasant, although I wont dwell on such negativity, so please forgive me for mentioning it. I hope that you are in the very best of health, and look forward to more contribution from your good self. SJW.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:03 a.m. CST

    DoctorTom and Hornorsilk,

    by Greg

    Thanks for the clarification. That may be why my attempts to get into older Who when I was younger failed: my short attention span as a teen and twenty something, addled by caffeine and video games. I'd like to think my thirties has brought a little more patience and open mindedness, so maybe now's the time for me to dig into older Doctor Who. I'll just have to look for the good slow burn with good to great endings versus the stories that take forever and go no where.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:07 a.m. CST


    by sam jacksons wig

    "Technika" is the name for Tesco own brand of electrical goods. Tesco is basically the UKs equivalent of Wallmart- they are bloody everywhere and it seems like they are looking for global domination of the service market!! However, compared to Wallmarts $100b profit Tesco runs at about £3.5b ($7b). This information was brought to you by my mother-in-law buying a Technika television for her bedroom, then wishing she hadn't.....

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:34 a.m. CST

    Thanks all for the info about Gatiss + lots of random RS updates

    by Rebel Scumb

    That makes sense. Sorry I haven't been around much, trying to focus on my writing my book whenever spare time (which is very rarely) presents itself. Taking mon-wed off for another 72 hour writing marathon that worked so well over labour day As for the Aztecs, its one of the few Hartnell stories I own and I quite liked it. I recently watched Masque of Mandragora which was quite good, and Image of Fendahl which was fairly dissappointing. I say that because I've loved all the Leela episodes I've seen so far. As companions go, although she wasn't around for long, her 'batting average' is arguably the highest of any companion in my opinion with such classics as: Robots of death, talons of weng chiang, horror of fang rock and sunmakers all being under her banner.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:39 a.m. CST

    icyhot - welcome!

    by Rebel Scumb

    I've gotten really into classic Who over the past year or so, but I would say that as endings go, its not really their strong suit and I don't mean that really as a specific criticism of Dr Who, as my general opinion is that old movies/shows never really knew how to end properly. Lots of old movies are guilty of absolutely no denoucement. Mr Smith Goes to Washington is a great example he makes his big speech then collaspes, the boy rushes in with the newspaper and shouts 'we won!' then we cut to a wide shot of the senate cheering and mr smith is still unconscious on the floor then... THE END! It just ends on that, no moment to breath afterwards, no chance for the characters to rejoice in their well earned victory, Jimmy stewart doesn't even get to wake up before it ends and since old movies had ALL of the credits at the end of the movie, it just cuts to a paramount logo and its over. Likewise classic doctor whos, even at their best, tend to wrap things up somewhat quickly just before the end, then the doctor always unshaken by the recent events gets back in the tardis and the credits roll obviously thats an over simplification, but anyways, there are plenty of GREAT episodes of the classic stuff, and if you're looking for recommendations plenty of docbackers have very good tastes of what to recommend.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:45 a.m. CST


    by sam jacksons wig

    I think that Mr Plume decided from the outset to exert his authority!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!! I loved the Captain Pike reference, which actually had me coughing up my coffee! I would definately rather be likened to a robot dog with a cool nose and spinning ears than Jeffrey Hunters mutilated character. Were you guys drunk when you did the 'cast??? It sounds far too fun to be sober! I think you let him off far too easily! BBWWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! As I type, the mousepad I have is from a visit to a theme park a few years ago, which has myself and my family on a log flume and we are all now completely indistinguishable from each other!! As for John Delancie- he did a credible job with what he was given (which wasn't much) and was by far the best thing in the show. The rest was just bloody rubbish! Maybe RTD did it on purpose just to kill the thing off. Rumours were he was fed up of sci-fi and wanted to plug a new gay show called cucumber or something. As for X Files, it was one of my favourite shows of all time (I was even excited by the 2nd movie and hollered when Mitch Pileggi showed up!!) and I completely agree that there was a piss poor payoff to it all. It was certainly 3 seasons too long. Within that though, there were some frigging belters of episodes!! (paper hearts comes to mind which was a standalone episode actually touching on the mythology, and Tom Noonan as a rotten ugly bastard.) Great podcast. Will listen again. SJW.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:17 a.m. CST

    rebel scumb

    by Mister Vertue

    What a coincidence that you mention old movies having absolutely no denouement, I was saying those exact words to Woman_Of_Vertue just last night after watching a particular movie together. I think time constraints caused that particular problem in the old Doctor Who episodes. Yes, we had 4 or 6 episode stories, but you had to wrap it all up in the final episode (remembering to resolve the previous episode's cliffhanger, of course) within half an hour and then get the crew safely back onto the Tardis after having saved Planet X and saying their goodbyes. It's an awkward format to follow in each and every story. It definitely played a small part in why they switched to the current format, although losing those classic cliffhangers was agonised over in the beginning. By the way, as an aside, how the hell do I make separate paragraphs on Docbacks? I do hate writing these large blocks of text with no breaks (see above).

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:25 a.m. CST

    SJW - hope you're feeling better

    by Mister Vertue

    I read that you were feeling under the weather, so it's good to see you back too! Where have I been? Oh you know, bits and bobs, here and there. Must admit, it hasn't all been hard work, there's been a bit of wining and dining, schmoozing and boozing, networking and putting early feelers out and other such nonsense. No rest for the wicked, but I'm still floating around here from time to time.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST

    man of vertue

    by Rebel Scumb

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that about old movies. And certainly with old doctor who it does seem to be more just a limitation of the format One thing I kind of wish about the old show was that even the resolution episodes ended on a cliffhanger to introduce the next story. Sort of how some of the hartnell stuff did early on, like at the end of the 'edge of destruction' where it ends setting up the marco polo story. When I was little and hadn't seen doctor who really, my impression of it was this one long unbroken chain of cliffhangers (I guess sort of like a soap opera) with never a moment to breath in between. For the new show I think they went the right route, audiences are more sophisticated now in terms of their ability to absorb information at faster rates, and I've often remarked that a single episode of the Tennant era, has roughly the same amount of plot/story as a 4-6 parter in the classic era. I've been rewatching the RTD stuff, and it boggles me how critical some fans are of his stuff, when it is SO similar to the classic stuff. I'm not commenting on the quality of the Moff era vs RTD (as I adore both), but certainly of the two the RTD stuff is closer in terms of pacing, story/character set up and overall story format to the classic stuff, where as the Moff stuff is very bold and ambitious both visually and its incredible non-linear story structure (especially this past season). For all the flack the 'daleks in manhatten' 2 parter gets, having just rewatched it I really can't find any fault with it. If this was made in the 1970s and starred tom baker instead of david tennant, it would probably considered one of the greats. But context is everything and people impose their own opinion on things in a fairly subjective way (and certainly I don't exclude myself from that observation). I feel pretty blessed actually, because I think I had the absolutely ideal set of circumstances and timing to enjoy new-who to the fullest possible extent. I had never really seen the old show except for a few snippets, but it is also one of the oldest shows in my memory from back in childhood, so even without ever watching it, I had a very strong nostalgic attachment to it. I also had a very vague but general impression of what it was like (which was and at the same time was not accurate) I had not been interested in the new show, but around the time series 4 was starting, had heard just enough murmurs online and from one coworker to have me mildly curious, and on a whim I gave it a chance. I think my expectations, and appetite for what I wanted it to be were in the exact right place to maximize my enjoyment of it, and I was hooked from 'Rose' onward. With my love for it quickly infecting virtually every person I know so all of them are now Who fans (although only my brother and I also got into the classic stuff) As for how to make paragraph breaks, I'm not really sure. Mine seem to work naturally but I've never posted from anything but my laptop

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:39 a.m. CST

    Wow, that was a long post

    by Rebel Scumb

    This is why I have to limit my visits to the docback, that could have been half a page of my book I just wrote (in terms of volume not content)! Anyways, everyone have a great weekend!

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 10:01 a.m. CST

    I wear a tutu now. Tutus are cool.

    by Mister Vertue

    "Not just cool. Awesome." I like that. I can hear Matt saying that. Would Matt wear a tutu though? Yes. Yes, he would.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 10:02 a.m. CST


    by Merrick

    *** Were you guys drunk when you did the 'cast??? It sounds far too fun to be sober! *** Ha! No, that's us sober. Actually, we dialed ourselves down a bit...and remained more politically correct than usual...for that podcast. *** I think you let him off far too easily! *** I'm not done yet. ** Great podcast. Will listen again. ** Thank you SO much. Really glad you enjoyed it. I suppose we should probably think about recording the next one, or something...

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 10:07 a.m. CST

    MOV (re: old episode story structure)

    by Merrick

    *** Yes, we had 4 or 6 episode stories, but you had to wrap it all up in the final episode (remembering to resolve the previous episode's cliffhanger, of course) within half an hour and then get the crew safely back onto the Tardis after having saved Planet X and saying their goodbyes. It's an awkward format to follow in each and every story. *** True. you feel that early WHOs structured their stories optimally? I've seen a number of old episodes in which I felt a particular story had too much dead space here, and too much crammed in here, resulting in the finale traffic jam you're referring to. If the tales had been built a little differently throughout, do you think that awkwardness you mentioned would've been lessened? Or am I off base?

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 10:08 a.m. CST

    MOV re: tutus...

    by Merrick

    *** Would Matt wear a tutu though? Yes. Yes, he would. *** He would and he should. And he should call it "Desmond."

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Merrick - The Fades

    by Mister Vertue

    Isn't it great? Let me know what you think once you've viewed them all. Caroline put her heart and soul into that production and it really shows. Once you've watched it all, you'll see exactly why she got her new job. That, and the fact that she's absolutely bonkers, which also helps.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 10:49 a.m. CST

    Old Who - optimal structure

    by Mister Vertue

    Pacing (or lack of) was always an issue, but it was low on the list of priorities back then, right behind: getting the script written on time, staying on the air, getting the props and effects finished adequately, staying on the air, keeping egos in check, staying on the air, etc...

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:01 a.m. CST

    MOV- thanks very much....

    by sam jacksons wig

    ... clubbed over the head by a rotten viral infection which is just beginning to leave the building. Just left me shattered. Hope your wining and dining bore fruit! (Except the grapes used to press the wine!!)

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:14 a.m. CST

    Something else about old DW's timing I've seen mentioned in documentaries:

    by The Transformed Man

    Apparently the BBC flipped a switch and shut the whole operation down promptly at 10:00 pm every night. So sometimes they HAD to hit the finish line by any means necessary to be done by that point. I tend to watch for evidence of this on the old show.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:17 a.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    I have an Eccleston coat I wear fairly regularly. I've been Tennant and Tom Baker in the past. This year, if my jacket arrives on time, I'm going to be Matt. It's an odd feeling knowing that for the first time, the Doctor is a bit younger than me.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:36 a.m. CST

    The Podcast is fun!

    by gotilk

    I love just straight ahead conversational podcasts. Nice job.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:38 a.m. CST


    by gotilk

    It used to be you couldn't do real line breaks here without code, but they just work naturally now. It should work for you as well. Strange.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:49 a.m. CST


    by gotilk

    Do you mean they as in the BBC, at the point of broadcast, or at the point of production at 10pm? As in they would be shooting, and just simply had to quit at 10 no matter what was completed? Wow. That must have been some pressure.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    I think it was the BBC. I wish I remembered what DVD it was mentioned on. It seems like it was a Davison era one.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:55 a.m. CST

    Thanks, Sam!

    by DoctorTom

    I didn't know Technika was a Tesco house brand (I would have thought it would have shown up early in a google search - probably was buried down a few pages)

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:56 a.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    Sorry, I misunderstood your question. Production is what I meant. Production had to be finished one way or another by 10.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:09 p.m. CST

    gotilk, you don't have to use the code any more?

    by DoctorTom

    That's good to hear. I'm tired of having to type in the code to do it. Hopefully this isn't just a minor 'aberration' that will go away and force us to type in the code again. They didn't fix all the quotation stuff at the same time, did they?

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:11 p.m. CST

    gotilk re: shooting an episode

    by DoctorTom

    Yes, it would all shut down promptly at 10PM. And, if you consider that in the earliest days they would shoot one episode at a time instead of filming on one set then cutting the scenes into the proper order later, it made things even more interesting.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:31 p.m. CST

    Merrick - On The Doctor as Anti-Hero

    by gotilk

    I do see some of that even in Tennant's era, albeit scripted by Moffat. Recall in Silence in the Library when he tells the Library (in the form of the skeleton in the spacesuit) *I'm the Doctor, you're the biggest library in the universe..... LOOK ME UP* (quote could be off a bit) That suggests all kinds of badassery. It seems to me that's where the reference to the Doctor as warrior really begins in the way it's carried over into these last few series. Well, that and Tennant's introduction, which put him in combat essentially. Am I remembering incorrectly or was he put in a position to kill in his first episode? While I adore the wide-eyed innocent, curious and enthusiastic Doctor, I do like the exploration of his more.... Hartnell side? lol

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:35 p.m. CST

    doctortom and thetransformedman

    by gotilk

    That's a tight schedule. It's a miracle they pulled off what they did. And no, I have not had to use code to do line breaks here for a LONG time. (I use Firefox on XP on 2 machines,netbook and nettop, win7 on a traditional desktop, Firefox on Ubuntu on another)

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:35 p.m. CST

    And by the way.

    by gotilk

    That line... *look me up* is still one of my favorite Doctor quotes of all time.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:44 p.m. CST

    Not Gatiss

    by gotilk

    As much as I like the man's work, my god please not showrunner. He'd need, as I've said before, someone else there to reign him in. It'd be like hiring Robin Williams for a dramatic role and then just filming him ad-libbing between scenes. And I DO love Gatiss, as a writer and actor. Don't get me wrong.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:45 p.m. CST

    Can you tell I'm still listening to the podcast?

    by gotilk

    Is it that obvious?

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 12:57 p.m. CST

    per the issue of pacing, and endings...

    by Greg

    Thank you for the welcome as well, rebel scum. Interesting observation from you and from MOV on how older movies and media would end without what we expect as a proper ending (or here's the climax, then....bam, it's over just like that). I think we all have become accustomed to most stories ending with a definite conclusion and sense of closure, and many get disappointed if that doesn't happen. I do, however, think it's refreshing at this point to watch something every once in awhile that ends quickly and maybe a bit open ended. There was mention of the X-files earlier and they did that quite a bit to good success. Unfortunately, if you overuse that it causes quite a bit of backlash. People eventually want answers and need closure. I suppose that's human nature. Still, if the story leading up the conclusion is good enough, I'm more inclined to give even what I would consider a disappointing ending a little more slack and try to enjoy the story as a whole. Sorry for the rambling, to bring this back around to Doctor Who, does anyone have a list of older Who stories they feel had great or even satisfying endings? Even if just the last twenty minutes are exciting and the ending is a bit flat? I'd hate to invest an hour+ in something expecting things to get better only to get really let down.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 1:45 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    First off... HI! Welcome from me as well. As far as satisfying endings, or endings that felt like a real closure to a story (even if you want the characters back), I would actually suggest all of the favorite Moffat stories from the Tennant years. The Girl In The Fireplace The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances Blink But if you want OLDER older suggestions, there are many more qualified than me here to answer that. (but I'm catching up, I swear)

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 1:52 p.m. CST

    I am...

    by Kevin Bolinger

    in a youtube video dressed as 11...I mean its not perfect, but i show up at the end of the vid to shut down the guy filming with the sonic, not sure if you guys want to see :P

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 2:02 p.m. CST

    Don't tease us, darthdevious

    by gotilk

    Spill that link!

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 2:03 p.m. CST

    Signoff suggestions for Podcast

    by gotilk

    *Until next time from the universe's only basement TARDIS....* eh, I'm outta ideas already.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Ok, gotilk, and everyone else... :P

    by Kevin Bolinger

    You asked for it... I am at the very end, last 30 seconds or so. If you do watch the whole thing, my buddy makes a nice little tribute to the friend I lost a few weeks ago. I , myself, led a moment of silence at the con thats featured in part of the video. Wish someone had filmed that part though...

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Look me up.

    by The Transformed Man

    I'm going to say that to someone someday. I'll probably be killed almost immediately afterwards, but I'll feel AWESOME for a few seconds. And if the other party does go to the trouble to look me up, they won't find anything terribly interesting, I'm afraid.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Interesting show, darthdevious.

    by The Transformed Man

    This isn't nearly as interesting, but I posted a video of myself demoing an old Tom Baker sonic screwdriver for an eBay auction a year or two ago. The thing was rather comically huge and made a completely inaccurate sound.

  • About 20 or so years ago, I had a similar sonic screwdriver (Mine was all silver.), I got it, along with a TARDIS key at a Doctor Who convention. It was small, it had a few Who monsters on display, a working TARDIS console, (not working working console, of course!) All in all, a nice way to spend a saturday afternoon.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 6:49 p.m. CST

    Thanks thetransformedman...

    by Kevin Bolinger

    My buddy Mike does a good job with that show. My Doctor might become a weekly nuisance on his show :P And you were not kidding about that being comically oversized lol, it is far larger the the 11ths screwdriver...seriously, whoever designed that was high lol lol

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 7 p.m. CST


    by Greg

    I'm grateful to you for the welcome as well. The first Doctor Who I had seen all the way through was the US premiere of Rose on Sci Fi (not using that other spelling), so I was looking more for recommendations on older Who. Thanks for the thought, though. I certainly agree with you on Girl in the Fireplace and Blink as examples of excellent Doctor Who stories with great endings/payoffs. I didn't care as much for the end of the two partner you mentioned, but as I said earlier, when the overall quality of the story is so high, slight personal letdowns in the endings don't damper my enjoyment of the story overall.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 7:09 p.m. CST

    that giant sonic screwdriver

    by The Transformed Man

    I think it was from the late 70's or early 80's. It was plastic and tan coloured. I painted it. I was amazed I got as much for it as I did. I think someone paid like $50 for it. I'm glad I sold it when I did, because Character Options made a nicer one with better sound and a more accurate size a year or two later.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 7:09 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    A trickster Doctor menacing the host would be a fun addition.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:43 p.m. CST

    Fun appearance, darthdevious!

    by DoctorTom

    Maybe you can get Michael Breaux to let you do the Stonehenge speech after the credits on a future episode!

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:47 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    Was that a US convention? So cool you got to go to that. I watched the show back then, but the only merchandise I ever got my hands on were a couple of issues of the Marvel reprint comics. I grew up in a small city in Kentucky, and the owner of a comic shop at the time was the only person outside of my household I ever encountered who was into the show. He sold some of the novels (although I never got any of those), and I thought he was awesome because he told me he'd eaten real jelly babies. I never heard of the conventions in those days, but a friend I met in college who grew up in the same circles but somehow never crossed paths with me showed me pictures of him when he was a kid where he was at a convention meeting Pertwee. Funny thing is, he wasn't even that into the show! It never occurred to me that toys might exist until sometime later when I saw pictures in a Starlog magazine. I think part of the reason I'm obsessively collecting the stuff they're making now is because I wanted it so badly in fifth grade and never had access to it.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 8:47 p.m. CST

    Has anyone seen the Peter Cushing doctor who films


    Having just finished them, I find them a bit odd. I'm glad I saw them but I feel they didn't fit the universe just right. Thoughts?

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:13 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    I have. They're interesting. It's like a weird version of Doctor Who from another dimension. I have a soft spot for them.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:14 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    Yes! Great costume AND choice of hat.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:15 p.m. CST

    I don't know if you noticed in the second Cushing film...

    by The Transformed Man

    ...a young Bernard Cribbins, who would go on to play Wilfred Mott during the RTD era, is one ofthe companions.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 9:16 p.m. CST

    The Cushing films

    by DoctorTom

    They adapted the scripts to Nation's first two Dalek stories to do them on the film, but they felt they had to have the Doctor be a kindly old human scientist instead of leaving the origins mysterious. I'm not sure about having made Susan so young in the first movie. <br> On the plus side, this was the first chance a lot of people got to see Daleks in color, so that excited some people. And, we did get Bernard Cribbins in the second film. <br> Scriptwise, the second movie did tighten things up from the original television scripts a bit. I should go back and watch them sometime.

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:01 p.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    Don't know if this will help you or not, but after finishing one sentence I hit the *enter* key and that starts a new sentence. Hitting *enter* twice starts a new paragraph. Or hit it multiple times to create a long break. Example, one click two clicks three or more You can but try!

  • Oct. 15, 2011, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Thanks guys!

    by Kevin Bolinger

    I recorded a skit for his next show in front of my makeshift green screen tonight, sent him the file, he took a still from his editing software to send me a preview, he got a TARDIS interios background looks sooo cooooolllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 5:33 a.m. CST

    The Peter Cushing Films

    by HornOrSilk

    I've said for years there should be a third one, where they do Power of the Daleks. With Christopher Lee as the Doctor. Christopher Lee is now too old and I know he would never do it. So they should do it with Hugh Laurie. The advantage is -- it's a great story and it's a lost story. So it would be a way to recreate it though allowing for suitable changes to fit a different "universe."

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 5:35 a.m. CST


    by HornOrSilk

    Club that virus back. Send in the Doctor to meet the Invisible Enemy!

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 5:36 a.m. CST

    Oh, and Sam

    by HornOrSilk

    Give the wig to the 4th Doctor, before he goes in, because, well, we all need to see the 4th Doctor in a Sam Jackson Wig!

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 6:52 a.m. CST

    HAT #773 - Jack and Jill

    by veteran_of_mu

    You know I always think it's more about what MOV don't say than what he do say. And what he didn't say was, right, Caractacus, you got me. But it occurred to me there is another nursery rhyme with the same melody. Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water Jack fell down and broke his crown And Jill came tumbling after Up Jack got, And home did trot. As fast as he could caper. To old Dame Dob, Who patched his knob, With vinegar and brown paper When Jill came in, how she did grin, To see Jack's paper plaster. Her Mother, vexed, did whip her next, For laughing at Jack's disaster. Now Jack did laugh And Jill did cry But her tears did soon abate. Then Jill did say That they should play At seesaw cross the gate. The meaning of all this is controversial to say the least. has a passionate multi-year discursion very worthy of the likes of we docbackers. The poem may mean anything from a norse origin story for the sun and moon to the rise of Cromwell and/or the beheading of Marie Antoinette. Nevertheless I think that last line sets up as an intro to the See-Saw Marjorie Daw rhyme so perhaps we can have these things and still get Johnny a new Master.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 9:38 a.m. CST

    Doctor WHO ....Action figures?!

    by DrMorbius

    Old-school Who fans continue to get new action figures based on classic characters. The “Enemies of the First Doctor Collectors Set” includes a Dalek (Master Plan) with flame arm, Roboman (10th Planet) and a Cyberman (10th Planet). The “Enemies of the Third Doctor Collectors Set” features Drashig, Omega with a detachable head and Auton with Nestene Sphere and swappable gun hand. "The Chase Collectors Set" comes with Mechonoid with swappable flame weapon and two Daleks. Look for each of these sets in December. Pics at the AICN Toys article or node 51630. Return now to the glorious days of yesteryear as The Doctor ...

  • (Sorry, I didn't see your post until now.) But, like I said, it was about 20 plus years ago, it was in the Allbany, NY area, it was only Doctor Who related, so, it was small, some displays, some booths, selling stuff, like Sonic Screwdrivers, TARDIS keys, T-shirts, ect. Because it was during the Spring-Summer time of the year, it was part-indoor, part-outdoor. I don't have the greatess memory, but, I remember standing under a big tree looking at the stuff I bought. Like I said, not bad way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 3:42 p.m. CST

    How is everyone?

    by gotilk

    Or rather where is everyone? How are those new rules working out? Good I hope.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    and it's still a bit slow on android.

    by gotilk

    I was hoping the speed would improve. I have a cheap android tablet though, so YRMV.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 3:47 p.m. CST

    I bet.....

    by gotilk

    If you just quietly removed that rule, the mild indifference would be louder than the indignant protests.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Karen Gillan in 'fires of pompeii'

    by Rebel Scumb

    Just got up to fires of pompeii while rewatching all of the RTD stuff, I had heard that Karen Gillan was in this episode, but didn't realize she had so much screentime and lines. Weird to see her as such a different non-Amyish character.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 7:58 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    I have two display cases overflowing with those figures. Both the newer series and the classics. They're mostly pretty great. They also make off-brand Legos from Doctor Who, and I'm accumulating them as well. I never thought I'd have an Eighth Doctor action figure, but now I have a regular one and a cute little Lego-ish one as well, along with all the other Doctors.

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 10:04 p.m. CST

    caractacuspotts, regarding Jack and Jill

    by The Transformed Man

    VERY interesting link; thanks for sharing!

  • Oct. 16, 2011, 10:27 p.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    Did you check out the pic.? Maybe these are re-issues or something, because the article said they were coming out in December. Did you read the story about the guy that has hundreds/thousands of Daleks? Thats not you is it?

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 8:54 a.m. CST


    by DoctorTom

    not much activity here, I thought there'd be more. Oh well. Maybe people got driven away by Friday's shenanigans and are just skipping a week to come back. <br> I didn't get to watching Talons of Weng Chiang special edition this weekend after all (Walking Dead started Season 2 last night, and I had to get caught up on Castle - I'm just waiting for a Doctor Who reference to slip into a Castle episode sometime), but I might get around to it tomorrow night. <br> Oh well, time to get back to work while playing some Santa Hates You. You can't go wrong with an album where the first song is titled Pack Your Bags Honey, We're Going to Hell!

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 9:36 a.m. CST

    hey folks

    by ByTor

    How's it going? Late to the party, I know, but the discussion that was ongoing before didn't really interest me, knowwhatImean? Oh, and gotilk? I love you, man, but you're just fanning the flames at this point. Aztecs is a cracker. John Lucarotti always seemed to bring good depth to his stories, and better-than-average characters. Someone mentioned the 10 PM shutdown for filming on classic Who. This gets brought up on the extras for several stories, in particular Logopolis (it came up during filming of the regeneration). Evidently it was a union rules thing. Sadly it looks like this docback has already petered out; if I'm wrong, I'll post a bunch more (and another convention story). Otherwise, I hope to catch you all on Friday's new docback. Merrick: email me if you need anything.

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 11:36 a.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    Surely then, you've seen the Firefly ref. on Castle (Halloween ep) where he dresses up as a *space cowboy* ( ...there are no cows in space!). Also, another ep where his Mom queries him ...('ve never heard of the Serenity?) whereas Castle looks directly at the camera. There are others ... On topic ...I've never seen it but others say there is a Firefly ref on Doctor Who. Have you seen the ep? Your opinion, yea or nay?

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 1:24 p.m. CST

    I can't recall a Firefly reference, drmorbius,

    by DoctorTom

    but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. I might have just not caught on to the reference. <br> As for references in Castle, I was amused by the episode a couple of weeks ago where they had the comic book character as a villain, and Castle brought in comics from his personal collection. Of course, they were all Marvel comics - not surprising because ABC is owned by Disney, as is Marvel Comics now. Marvel also put out a Richard Castle graphic novel. So, the best way to get referenced is apparently to have your parent company own something else they want to reference. If Disney buys the BBC, maybe we'll get a Doctor Who reference. <br> (They DID do the steampunk episode of Castle, though, which was very cool. There's hope yet for a Who reference.)

  • Have it like the original series with guest stars. Wouldn't it be cool if there could be an episode of The Muppet Show with Matt Smith as the guest? If nothing else, the Doctor could make an appearance in the Pigs.....In.....Spaaaaaaaace segment. Maybe you could show him jamming with Doctor Teeth and the Electric Mayhem the way he jammed with Orbital when they did the Doctor Who theme at a concert a couple of years ago, (It would also be cool if they did the series, and then had Matt Smith and Nathan Fillion in the same season.)

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 2:14 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    I think anything that promotes having more Nate Fillion in anything is a good idea.

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 3:58 p.m. CST

    The *SwineTrek*Serenity*Tardis*

    by DrMorbius

    With Capt. Link Hogthrob, Mal Reynolds, and The Doctor?

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 4:20 p.m. CST

    Or, there's a murder on the set of the show -

    by DoctorTom

    Fozzie Bear throws on his Sherlock Holmes hat to solve the crime, aided by the writer Richard Castle. And, if for some reason you get the two on at the same time, you have the Doctor show up to explain why the victim is actually murdered in the future and was dumped in the past.....

  • The last episode of "The Sarah Jane Adventures" airs tomorrow. I know a lot of Who fans did not like this series, but, I lliked seeing the Doctor's best companion carry on without him. I wish the series was ending for a different reason.

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 4:33 p.m. CST

    I enjoyed SJA, axcel1

    by DoctorTom

    To me, it had the feel of the classic Doctor Who stories, except with meddling kids instead of older companions. (The low budget for the show compared to what Doctor Who now gets also helps the comparison to classic Who.) I enjoyed the episodes we've had so far, with the ones with the Doctor and the one with the Brig being particular standouts (also the one with the Trickster that didn't have the Doctor)

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 4:42 p.m. CST


    by ByTor

    I wanted to like SJA, but it had too much of that aimed-at-kids-by-being-condescending nonsense that just irks me about most kids' shows. It started with sonic lipstick and went downhill from there. Still, I loved SJ as a companion, and I know many loved the show, so it's sad that it's ending.

  • It sounds like both of you felt the weak point of the show was the kids, but, remember, it is in CBBC. Would it help if I told you one of them is really twenty-one? I didn't know that until I read a post on an earlier Docback. Hey, I enjoyed watching it, but, I agree and disagree about the kids because it was made for a younger audience.

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 9:19 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    I have friends who loved the series. I tried watching the first episode or two and just couldn't get into it. I might try again someday. I have watched the two arcs that had the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors. They were sort of fun, but they are clearly aimed at a younger audience. I'm glad it found a passionate audience, and I hope I eventually give it another go and am able to see in it what they saw. I'm glad Elisabeth Sladen ended up with a whole new generation of young fans.

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 9:27 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    They're actually new figures. There have been Mego-ish figures in the past, and Dapol used to make DW figures. Character Options (imported into the US through Underground Toys) have been making new figures since 2006 or so, and they branched out into classic figures a few years back. They've done some really great ones. is a great place to see pretty comprehensive coverage of them. I did see the story about the Dalek guy. I'm not him, unfortunately. But I am annoying the hell out of my best girl with my collection.

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Did everyone see this Matt Smith figure?

    by The Transformed Man

  • Oct. 17, 2011, 9:36 p.m. CST

    bytor, 10pm

    by The Transformed Man

    Yes, I think it was the "Logopolis" DVD where I heard about that. Thanks for narrowing it down. I might pull that off the shelf and look for it. I'm off for the next two days and don't know what to do with myself.

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 7:50 a.m. CST

    axcel1, thetransformedman

    by ByTor

    axcel1: Well, not the kids themselves, although I do dislike the way so-called kids' shows think the protagonists have to be kids or else kid viewers won't relate. And yeah, I get it's CBBC. I'm glad so many enjoy the show; it's just not my thing. thetransformedman: Logopolis is always a good watch anyway. Despite its flaws, it's one of my all-time favorite classic Who stories. I think the 10pm thing got mentioned other times too. I have vague memories of Graeme Harper mentioning it, so probably Caves of Androzani. Kind of a shame that Harper hasn't gotten to do a new Who episode since Waters of Mars. The guy was revolutionary back on classic Who, and I still think he brought his A game on the new show.

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 9:34 a.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    "Caves of Androzani" is one of my favourites. Possibly my favourite last story for a Doctor. And I thought "Waters of Mars" was solid. It seemed like a lot of people didn't like that one, but it felt old school to me, overall.

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 10:52 a.m. CST

    thetransformedman: Androzani/Mars

    by ByTor

    Caves of Androzani is probably my #2 classic Who story of all time. (Logopolis is #1, but it's a very close 1-2 to be honest.) Androzani was a perfect storm: (1) Robert Holmes turning in one of his top all-time scripts. Even a mediocre Holmes script is pretty good, but if this isn't his best ever, it's in the team photo at least. (2) Peter Davison giving by far his best performance as the Doctor. I always liked his Doctor a lot -- for a time he was my favorite -- but he elevates his game tremendously for his swan song. It could be because of the emotions he was feeling over his departure, or it could be he was just inspired by the script. Either way, he starts off early in episode 1 just taking over the screen and never lets up. (3) An amazing supporting cast comes in. Sharaz Jek, the gun-runners, the President, Krau Timmen...not a weak one in the bunch. Very unusual. Of course, maybe that's because the peformances were coaxed out by... (4) Graeme Harper, who comes along and shows that yes, you don't have to shoot Doctor Who the same old boring way everyone has for decades. You don't have to over-light everything, or use standard theatrical blocking, or...well, you get it. Harper decides you can use a film-like approach even with a tiny budget and get real results, and it shows. Really, the only ding (and it's minor) is the ridiculous-looking magma beast. Everything else is flawless. I liked Waters of Mars a lot, too. Solid story, very creepy, with a sadness hanging over it. Not only because of the eventual fate of these people, but of what's coming for the Doctor. Crisply shot with terrific sets and very creepy water monsters. If this story gets hate, I can't imagine why.

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 10:53 a.m. CST

    More on Waters of Mars

    by ByTor

    OK, the one annoying bit is the robot. I hate cutesy robots. And yes, I know they made a joke out of it, but I still hate it all the same. But that's minor. I find WoM easily re-watchable.

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 3:50 p.m. CST

    hmmmm, things have definitely slowed down over here

    by DoctorTom

    If anyone's interested, I'm still continuing with story-by-story reviews and snarky comments over in the Closing Time thread (since that's where I started them, I figured I'd just keep them all in that one thread).

  • Sorry to see it go, sorry we all lost a great person like Elizabeth Sladen.

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 5:30 p.m. CST

    bytor, on cutesy robots

    by The Transformed Man

    I was actually thinking that as well, although I didn't mention it. On the other hand, I find all sorts of ways to work the quote "Atom clamps? Who needs atom clamps? I've got a funny robot!" into every day conversation. I love that quote for some reason, and without the cutey robot, I wouldn't have that. *gadgetgadget*

  • Oct. 18, 2011, 5:30 p.m. CST


    by The Transformed Man

    Did SJA end in the middle of a thread, or was it a decent stopping point?

  • After Sarah Jane and the kids (now four of them, a young girl from space becomes SJ's daughter in the first episode of this series (Season)) saved the day, rescued the aliens and stopped "the bad guy", they ran a, let's call it, a goodbye to the show, ending it by saying, "And the story goes on..............Forever...................." I have to say it again, I'm going to miss this show, for a lot of reasons.

  • Oct. 19, 2011, 7:57 a.m. CST

    thetransformedman, OK, yeah, I'm with you

    by ByTor

    The atom clamps line was pretty funny.

  • Oct. 19, 2011, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Thanks, axcel1.

    by The Transformed Man

    I saw the tribute from the end on YouTube. Very sad. But I'm glad the lady got to enjoy such a burst of recognition and new fandom before she passed.

  • Oct. 19, 2011, 3:43 p.m. CST

    I still need to watch last week's SJA, never mind this one

    by DoctorTom

    I did catch the first story, though, and enjoyed it. We get Season 4 on DVD in a month and a half (in the US - it might be earlier in the UK). It will be nice to have Death of the Doctor on DVD.

  • Oct. 19, 2011, 3:44 p.m. CST

    by DoctorTom

    Well, I've made it up through The Invasion of Time now in the Closing Time thread: I'll continue with the Key To Time and Douglas Adams later this week, if anyone cares.

  • Oct. 19, 2011, 3:45 p.m. CST

    oops, where did my subject header go?

    by DoctorTom

    I swear I had one when I got ready to send the message. I must have accidentally deleted it, or gremlins ate it. Sorry about that.

  • Oct. 19, 2011, 7:18 p.m. CST

    My Eleventh Doctor costume is almost finished!

    by The Transformed Man

    Just waiting on my jacket and bow tie and some boots I ordered from the UK. I've sat out the last couple of Halloweens, and I'm going completely bonkers this time.

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Finally! Caves of Androzani Special Edition announced for the US.

    by DoctorTom

    Finally we'll get all of the stories that we're in the Revisitations Box Set from a year ago in the UK. (The other two were the Paul McGann movie, and the recently released Talons of Weng Chiang special edition.) It will be out Feb 14th in the US, the same day that the Sensorites comes out.

  • What's so "Special" about this "Edition"? (I mean besides the fact (opinion?) that it's one of the best Old-Who stories and, maybe, the best Peter Davison Who story.)

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 7:45 p.m. CST

    Axcel1 - about the special edition

    by DoctorTom

    It's been digitally remastered - the original was one of the earlier transfers and the technology had advanced since then, and there's a lot more extras included that weren't present initially.


  • I didn't know Matt Smith made another (third?) appearance on Craig Ferguson, I will check it out on youtube.

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 9:29 p.m. CST

    axcel1, on "Caves of Androzani"

    by The Transformed Man

    Here's a link that lists the features:

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 11:22 p.m. CST

    OOH gotta check my DVR for Smith on Ferguson

    by gotilk

    I had no idea he had come back again so soon. Cool. Always great on Ferguson!

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 11:32 p.m. CST

    Neil Gaiman short film (written and directed by)

    by gotilk

    Starring Bill Nighy and Amanda Palmer. Very sweet little story that easily could have been a silent era film. I thought it might be of interest to anyone here who had not seen it yet. Amanda Palmer just tweeted that it's *up (on youtube) until they take it down*. Statuesque - 10 Minute Tales S01 E05 Written and directed by Neil Gaiman (whoever posted it spelled it Gaimen, which might explain why I never found it in any searches, although there might be other copies floating around and I just searched badly) Enjoy while you can. I hope everyone here is well. See you, hopefully, tomorrow. p.s. - If it is removed and anyone here who wants to does not get a chance to see it, I have a copy. Let me know and I can see if there's a way to get it to you.

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 11:33 p.m. CST


    by gotilk

    You MUST post pictures somewhere. Gotta see it.

  • Oct. 20, 2011, 11:49 p.m. CST

    I have named my Praying Mantis K’anpo Rimpoche

    by gotilk

    (from planet of the spiders) When she first arrived, I gave her a very large for my region Wolf Spider (about 3 inches including extended legs, pretty large for my area) and a few minutes later there was nothing left but legs and a very full Praying Mantis. (I think she might have even grinned a bit) Now she is a bit of a hermit, hanging out between my blinds and the window, eating the spider population in this room, constantly making noise but staying hidden. For some reason I thought of The Doctor's old mentor, the time lord from Planet of The Spiders. I just love the name. K'anpo Rimpoche (aka ChoJe) Doesn't ChoJe sound like a celebrity couple nickname? Like if Margaret Cho dated Jennifer Lopez? I'm sure everyone needed to read this story. LOL. Love you all. See you soon. BONUS: Now you know that the legs are the least tasty part of the Wolf Spider.... the more you know.