Elston Gunn Interviews ZODIAC Researcher Max Daly!!

Merrick here... For quite a while, I've been interested in establishing an ongoing column that would feature in-depth interviews with (or personal perspectives from) people who work within the film & television industries. Not just writers & directors (who we seem to get a lot of), but composers (ScoreKeeper has covered this nicely), craftsmen/technicians, visual effects/sound artists, DPs, prop masters, costumers, designers of various ilk, animal wranglers, etc. The goal would be to provide readers with detailed & honest insights about the minutiae that goes into generating film and television. This could be done "above the board" as you see below (i.e. w/o any subterfuge), or anonymously (if someone wanted to write in about nitty gritty details - but didn't want to have their identities revealed). These can be funny stories, examples of how rewarding or frustrating working in a particular field can be, or...whatever...there are many forms this could take. I’m envisioning articles that aren’t configured for the masses as much as they’re meant for serious movie fans & Geeks. Details...exhaustive details. If anyone to there is interested in participating in (or even contributing) articles along these lines, E-MAIL ME. If you don't hear back from me, e-mail me again because my AICN e-mail has been mighty unreliable lately & can’t be trusted. With that, here's Elston Gunn with an interview with the gentleman who researched ZODIAC. This was pulled together pretty quickly, and we appreciate Elston and Max's efforts. If you're heading out to see the movie this weekend, you might be interested in this ZODIAC TIMELINE. Creepy stuff.

ELSTON GUNN INTERVIEWS ZODIAC RESEARCHER MAX DALY "Excellence is in the details. Give attention to the details and excellence will come." -- Perry Paxton We all know it takes a lot of people to make a high-profile A-list film. From the first word of the screenplay to the movie's final mix the collaborative effort involves hundreds. Most of us understand, too, at least subconciously, that most of these features, especially period films, require a great deal of research to help ensure the accuracy of the details. Is that really how the cop would've grilled the suspect? What kinds of typewriters were used during Watergate? What's the daily routine of a coroner? Did people love to drink those tiny bottles of Coke during the Great Depression? Max Daly is an art department researcher whose credits include ALI, CATCH ME IF YOU CAN, PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN: DEAD MAN'S CHEST and David Fincher's ZODIAC, which opens wide this Friday, March 11. The film, which is garnering some stellar reviews, is set in 1960s and 70s San Francisco and focuses on the investigation of the Zodiac serial killings. To shed a little light on what an art department researcher exactly does on a film, Daly took some time to answer questions for AICN regarding his work on ZODIAC and more.

[Elston Gunn]: How did you become a researcher for feature films? What advice do you have for those who might aspire to do what you do? [Max Daly]: I went to film school and art school, then started as an assistant in Art Departments. I’d deliver blue prints from the set designers to the construction department, or pick up wallpaper samples, glass samples, that sort of stuff. Art Departments are a blast and the running around gave me a good understanding of what goes into building a set. After assisting on a few films someone recommended me to a research job. I loved it. From that point I actively wrote letters to designers that were four to six months out from shooting period films and asked if I could be their researcher. Tenacity can pay off.
[EG]: You obviously come aboard during preproduction. Do you stay involved throughout filming? [MD]: I’m usually one of the very first hires and typically I stay on for at least half of the filming. For me, ZODIAC started four or five months before filming. An early start is important. If you really want good stuff you have to dig deep and this takes time. However, there are times I get calls as late as the morning before a scene shoots.
[EG]: How does a researcher interact with the production? In other words, how exactly does your work get integrated into or discarded from the project? [MD]: I have an office in the art department that houses a library of books and set files. The books are both bought and borrowed. From the libraries here in Los Angeles I can have out 70 books at any given time. Add to that dozens of books purchased and there can easily be 150 books on architecture and photography all relating to the film. Add to this the images pulled from the web and pictures given to us from contacts such as the police, or retired detectives and a mountain of visual information becomes available. Often times the walls of an art department are covered in corkboard. We lay out the film in chronological order. Each set might get five feet of space and we tack up a hundred images for each set. The set decorator or prop master can then walk up to the wall when they have a minute and look for relevant pictures. The problem is when I walk through the office and see an empty space on the wall, it means a picture is missing… then I have to track down the person that took an image and didn’t return it. It’s almost always one of the concept illustrators.
[EG]: Do you deliver reports to the producers, writer, director, production designer? [MD]: For certain sets I write reports. For ZODIAC I wrote a bunch, one was a six-page report on the San Francisco Chronicle’s daily operations in the 1960’s. We were lucky enough to speak to several reporters who worked there at the time and they gave us tons of details. From daily schedules, to meeting agendas, to the types of pencils and glue pots used, even to tactics the reporters used to sneak out for an afternoon drink, we really got in there. It’s important to understand all this so the assistant directors can give the background actors something real to do. We even knew that the reporters liked to play a game called ‘Liar’s Dice’ at the bar across the street.
[EG]: For ZODIAC you interviewed the original investigators on the case as well as Robert Graysmith, who wrote the book. What above all did you want to make sure you had right? [MD]: Aside from the basics of guns, badges, cars, etc., I was fascinated by the descriptions a few people gave of the prime suspect, Arthur Leigh Allen (he went by Leigh). One person who knew Leigh for a few years in the mid sixties told us that in forty years he’s never met a man that could scare him the way Leigh could. He said Leigh had a demeanor that was able to intimidate subtly but with a terrifying effect. One of the detectives said that while interviewing Leigh he was always a bit nervous, he said he just felt at any minute Leigh was going to turn on him. During preproduction I had an opportunity to talk to John Carroll Lynch, he plays Leigh in the movie, we talked about this for a while, this was definitely something to get right.
[EG]: Were the cryptogram symbols in the film exact or did you play with those a little? [MD]: I’m pretty sure those are exact. I was able to visit the crime lab and see the letters first hand. Our prop master, Hope Parrish, made really amazing duplicates of all the Zodiac letters. The skeleton Halloween card is something to see.
[EG]: You came from PIRATES 2 to do this film. Aside from the obvious differences, where were the real challenges for you? What were some of the most fascinating things you discovered? [MD]: There’s nothing piratical about having your nose buried in nearly forty-year old police reports, and there were volumes of reports. The real challenge was trying to make sense of all the various accounts of any one of the given Zodiac attacks. Different reports and different witnesses give different information. You’d have to check any given fact against three sources. That was really challenging. It wasn’t just me; it really took the entire crew’s diligence to make sure we didn’t get anything wrong. One thing I learned that was fascinating, and it sounds naïve in hindsight, but I honestly didn’t know, is that some people collect books on serial killers as a hobby. One of the accountants on Zodiac came into my office and started talking about all the books she and her boyfriend have on serial killers. It was totally fascinating to me, and a little freaky, too.
[EG]: Were you among the group who interviewed witnesses, investigators and the surviving victims and discovered details about the case the original investigators overlooked? [MD]: I personally didn’t interview any of the survivors, but I did talk to almost all of the investigators. Several months before the film started shooting I went to San Francisco and met active and retired detectives from Vallejo, Solano County, Napa and SFPD. They all took me to see their evidence, which a cataloged and photographed and any reports we were lacking I made sure to scan. The original investigators did an amazing job, the difference between them and us is that we accumulated everything from everywhere for the entire life of the case. Most of these departments only had material relating to their case, so it seems little has ever been cross-referenced. This lack of sharing information is what the Zodiac had hoped for. Random murders in different jurisdictions are hard to solve, especially back then.
[EG]: According to a recent New York Times article, Fincher had said "the last thing he wanted was for an audience to seize on period details like an avocado-colored rotary phone, or an actor’s sideburns, and miss the point of a scene" and he would retake changing elements in the frame like a car or clothing because it was less realistic. Is this where you come in to play, to discern what is more realistic vs. cartoony? [MD]: I love that David said that. I totally agree. Much of that stuff is worked out in pre-production meetings months in advance. We have boards of research photos that show how things really looked, and then we have boards of set decoration choices that are available in the present day. It’s then about picking period appropriate items that fit the aesthetic and create a period look. The designer, Don Burt, is really good at creating a natural everyday look, and I’m sure Victor Zolfo, the set decorator, didn’t put any distracting avocado phones on the set, but if he did, David would have pointed it out… and tossed it out.
[EG]: What are some examples where good film research has been thrown out the window in favor of dramatic license? Do you feel this happens more often than not? [MD]: Most of the A-list directors want accuracy and they’ll find a way to work it into the story. The most painful is when a set is thoroughly researched and then cut entirely from the shooting schedule, or its filmed and edited from the final movie. On CATCH ME IF YOU CAN there was an idea to have a scene in a French courtroom. There was an emergency meeting about this set, so I stayed up two nights learning all I could on the topic, I put together half a dozen presentation boards and on the morning of the meeting the scene was cut all together. That’ll take the wind out of your sails.
[EG]: Are you satisfied with what you've seen on the screen in ZODIAC with respect to the work that you did? [MD]: The last time I watched ZODIAC I was too swept up in the story to notice the details. One detail I do like is the old Ranger truck that arrives after the attack at Lake Berryessa. We knew this is what was driven, and I had snapped a photo of this truck off the wall while in the Napa Sheriff’s Station, then I contacted the California State Parks office for a period Ranger logo, they were small then, and we didn’t blow it up for camera, we just put the awkwardly small logo on the door. You’ll see the truck for a few seconds as it rolls up to the scene. It’s short and sweet and perfectly accurate. I love that.
[EG]: What kinds of research are you having to do for BENJAMIN BUTTON? [MD]: All kinds. BENJAMIN BUTTON has a scene in 1911 France and goes around the world from there. We’ve been working on the tugboat set recently. In the story there’s a sequence with a tugboat in the Northern Atlantic in 1942. I’ve spent the past few weeks swapping calls and e-mails with the owner of one of the largest and oldest tug boat companies in America. These guys had the tugs that salvaged ships attacked by u-boats in the Atlantic. They’ve given us great details about life onboard these boats. They provided photos and stories of the harrowing life these guys lead. My favorite detail is that they painted the portholes of the tugs black so no light could escape at night. It was a cold scary time for those men. I think of them and I think, damn, I’ve got a cush job.
Elston Gunn elstongunn@hotmail.com http://www.myspace.com/elstongunnaicn