Hey folks, Harry here with an interview that Quint recently conducted with Jan Harlan, who was Stanley Kubrick's producer and brother-in-law. Jan also most recently made the fantastic documentary, STANLEY KUBRICK: A LIFE IN PICTURES! Personally if you have not yet seen this terrific documentary, then by all means find it by any means necessary. A wondrous look at Stanley Kubrick the man and the filmmaker. Jan Harlan was recently here in Austin to present this documentary at the Alamo Drafthouse as part of the Austin Film Society's Documentary Series! Enjoy...
Ahoy, squirts! 'Tis I, the ultraviolent and constantly in a world... of... shit..., but always crusty seaman, Quint, here to give you folks a peek into the mind and behind the scenes of noneother than Stanley Kubrick via his close friend, producer and brother-in-law, Jan Harlan. Jan has been Kubrick's right hand man for the last 30 years, not only observing the process, but being a part of all of Kubrick's films (both made and unmade) since A Clockwork Orange.
I found myself in an amazing position with this interview. It was as close to interviewing Kubrick as I'd ever get and I asked quite a few questions. As a warning: I only asked Jan questions about projects and films he was a part of, so the interview covers the unmade Napoleon and Clockwork through A.I. If you're interested in knowing more about Kubrick's earlier films, go find Jan's amazing and in-depth documentary on Stanley, which was included in the newest Kubrick box set.
This interview was done via email. While it's not my preferred approach to interviewing, I think it turned out very well and I'm very proud of it. Enjoy and I'll see you on the other end of the interview!
QUINT: WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO PUT TOGETHER A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT STANLEY KUBRICK?
JAN HARLAN: I had worked with Stanley Kubrick for 30 years and was his Executive Producer since Barry Lyndon (1975). A comprehensive documentary about Stanley Kubrick had to be made, would be made, and I am glad that I was considered the natural choice by Warner Bros. and the family to do this documentary and was given the opportunity to correct the distorted image of this great man. I know that these distortions were partly Stanley's own fault since he remained silent, whatever was said about him, since he never reacted even to the most outrageous stories in the British tabloids.
QUINT: WHAT ARE YOU HOPING THOSE THAT SEE YOUR FILM TAKE AWAY FROM IT?
JH: A renewed awareness that Kubrick was not only one of the great American film directors but one of the great artists of his generation. I would be most satisfied with our effort, if people who watch the documentary would then desire to see his films again - or for the first time, as the case may be.
QUINT: HOW'D YOU MEET STANLEY AND COME TO BE HIS PRODUCER?
JH: I have known him for 40 years, since he and my sister got married in 1958. I did not intend to work with him and had my own profession and interests, although I was always a film buff. When I lived in New York in the early 60s I saw him a lot and we got to know each other very well. But it was not until 1970, when I lived and worked in Zurich, Switzerland, when he asked me to join him on a specific project to be filmed in Romania: "NAPOLEON".
QUINT: TELL ME A BIT ABOUT NAPOLEON. WHAT'S THE HISTORY (AND POSSIBLE FUTURE) OF THAT UNMADE KUBRICK SCRIPT?
JH: This brilliant script was written by Kubrick, who was a scholar on the subject. Let me try to put into a few words what fascinated him so: Kubrick was always aware that we, as a species, are in the end governed by our emotions and not by our intellect, knowledge or education - and he did not exclude himself. Napoleon was a good example for this: Here was this multi-talented genius who's downfall was self-inflicted. How come he made such bad decisions regardless of what must have been his "better knowledge"? A never ending question imbedded in the history of mankind....
QUINT: WHEN DID YOU FIRST HEAR KUBRICK EXPRESS INTEREST IN DOING AN ADAPTATION OF A CLOCKWORK ORANGE?
JH: Soon after Napoleon was aborted.
QUINT: WAS IT DIFFICULT TO GET THE FILM MADE?
JH: No.
QUINT: AS SOMEONE ASSOCIATED TO THE PRODUCTION OF THE FILM, DID YOU AGREE WITH KUBRICK'S DECISION TO PULL IT FROM THEATERS DUE TO THE COPYCAT CRIMES THAT ROCKED THE UK?
JH: It was not for me to agree or disagree. I understood his wish and so did Warner Bros. who pulled the film from distribution in Britain to give him peace of mind.
QUINT: WHAT DID MALCOLM MCDOWELL HAVE AS AN ACTOR THAT SET HIM APART FROM THE OTHERS AND GET HIM THE ROLE OF "ALEX?"
JH: Obvious brilliance and talent. We saw "IF" and after meeting Malcolm the decision was made. Stanley was extremely happy and no other actor was ever considered.
QUINT: HOW'D WENDY/WALTER CARLOS JOIN UP?
JH: Wendy Carlos joined us early. Stanley loved "Switched on Bach" -which switched him on to Carlos, who wrote a most magnificent score and adapted the work of great composers and arranged it for this very new sound of electronic music.
QUINT: DID THE BOX OFFICE FAILURE OF BARRY LYNDON HURT KUBRICK EITHER PERSONALLY OR PROFESSIONALLY?
JH: It hurt him personally, not professionally. So much love was put into this film and he felt he had succeeded in putting the 18th century on the screen. But the film was first released in the USA where it failed at the box office. He could not know then that the film would be successful in other countries, particularly in France and Italy - but by that time he had well recovered from the blow.
QUINT: HOW DID KUBRICK DECIDE TO DO HIS FIRST AND LAST HORROR FILM AND TAKE ON STEPHEN KING'S THE SHINING?
JH: How? He read the book, liked it and decided to make a film based on this story, which he wanted to change and add some ambiguity to it - and he certainly did that and not to everybody's liking.
QUINT: HONESTLY, WAS SHELLEY DUVALL AS BIG A FLAKE AS PRESENTED ON VIVIAN KUBRICK'S BEHIND THE SCENES DOCUMENTARY?
JH: Shelly was brilliant and Stanley was very satisfied with her. The scene which Vivian shot is representative to show the level of nervousness which was not untypical. It was so difficult to hold the artificial fog on this exterior set - and when we were ready to turn and could not due to some communication error, it was most frustrating. Vivian shows this brilliantly in this short exchange. Shelly had a very tough role here, constantly running around, hyper ventilating and carrying little Danny Lloyd. But it was equally tough for Stanley, which comes across in this scene.
QUINT: JACK NICHOLSON REALLY SEEMED TO TAKE THE ROLE OF JACK TORRANCE AND RUN WITH IT. WAS HE YOUR FIRST CHOICE? IF SO, WHY. IF NOT, HOW DID YOU COME TO PICK HIM FOR THE ROLE?
JH: He was Stanley's first choice and since they reached an agreement quickly, the question who might be an alternative for Jack Nicholson never came up.
QUINT: IT'S NOTORIOUS HOW KING DISAPPROVES OF THE FILM. HOW CLOSELY DID YOU AND KUBRICK WORK WITH KING ON THE FILM? IFYOU GUYS DIDN'T WORK CLOSELY, WAS IT KUBRICK'S DECISION OR KING'S?
JH: They did not work together at all. He worked with Diane Johnson on the script. It was Kubrick's decision and contractual right to make changes and the question whether these changes would meet Stephen King's approval or not was not considered.
QUINT: WHEN DID YOU FIRST HEAR MENTION OF FULL METAL JACKET?
JH: I don't remember the date, but it was after Stanley had read Gustav Hasford's book.
QUINT: WHY THE LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME BETWEEN SHINING AND FULL METAL JACKET?
JH: We considered again "Traumnovelle" by Arthur Schnitzler, which later became "Eyes Wide Shut", but Stanley was not ready for this, had no other project and would not compromise here merely in order to make another film. Enough films are being made - he wanted to make films with substance and films with which would satisfied himself in the first instance.
QUINT: R LEE ERMEY IS STILL QUOTED ON AN ALMOST DAILY BASIS BY FILM BUFFS. DID YOU GUYS KNOW HOW CLASSIC (AND OFT COPIED) HIS PERFORMANCE WOULD BE WHEN SHOOTING?
JH: No, not at all. Lee Ermey was hired as a technical advisor, not as an actor. Seeing him preparing our extras for their parts made us aware of his great competence as a Drill-Instructor and, to our surprise, of his potential as an actor. Not only did Stanley re-cast the part, he also used some of Lee Ermey's ad lib "expressions" (for the lack of a better word) which we heard when Lee was training, humiliating and shouting at our extras. We hardly believed what we heard, neither did the extras. We reacted with astonishment and disbelief. For Lee, however, this seemed to be as natural as breathing.
QUINT: LIKE YOU DID ABOVE WITH NAPOLEON, CAN YOU TELL ME THE HISTORY (AND POSSIBLE FUTURE) OF ARYAN PAPERS?
JH: Stanley read Louis Begley's book WARTIME LIES and was very excited having finally found a story which would serve as a vehicle for a film on this darkest chapter of human history, the Holocaust. We bought the rights and Stanley worked on the screenplay for ARYAN PAPERS. We prepared the film for over a year and planned to film in Brno, Czech Republic, in Poland, Denmark and Slovakia. It was SCHINDLER'S LIST which would be released before our film was finished, that caused Terry Semel, Co-Chairman of Warner Bros. and Stanley to re-consider and postpone this project. ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE would be next, another story Stanley had loved for years and for which he had a script written in collaboration mainly with Ian Watson. We had the rights to Brian Aldiss' "seed story" SUPERTOYS LAST ALL SUMMER LONG since 1983.
It was in 1994 when Stanley came to the surprising decision to ask his friend Steven Spielberg to direct A.I. Stanley felt that Steven had the edge for this huge fairy tale. It did not work out at the time, although Steven loved the story, too. However, Stanley's proposal turned out to be a prophetic one! At the time Stanley could not get around the problem of how to do the robot child. He did not want to use a young boy, since he knew it would take him a long time to shoot this film. There was a danger that the boy might age or change over a longish period and it was imperative for this story that this should not be so.
Another problem was that at that time the British labour laws governing the work with children were very restrictive. Stanley therefore wanted to build a robot boy, but we failed miserably in our attempt and he decided to wait a few years until Computer Graphics would be further developed to come to his aide. Now the time had come to turn "Traumnovelle" into "Eyes Wide Shut".
QUINT: KUBRICK'S LAST, AND I DARE SAY MOST UNDERATTED, FILM WAS EYES WIDE SHUT. WHEN DID YOU FIRST HEAR ABOUT IT? HOW'D IT GET ROLLING?
JH: We bought the rights to Schnitzler's novel in 1972 and always kept this on the back-burner. It was the most difficult film for Stanley to make - one of the problems with this story is that everybody in the audience is an expert on the topic of jealousy or sexual fantasy.
QUINT: SPEAKING FOR A LEGION OF KUBRICK FANS, A DAUNTING AND OFTEN UNCOMFORTABLE TASK, I ASSURE YOU, I HAVE TO ASK ONE BIG QUESTION... OK, A FEW BIG QUESTIONS, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST: WAS WARNER BROTHERS LYING WHEN THEY SAID IT WAS KUBRICK'S CHOICE TO PUT IN THE CGI PEOPLE IN EYES WIDE SHUT? WOULD HE HAVE ALLOWED THE CG CENSORSHIP IF HE HADN'T DIED BEFORE THE RELEASE?
JH: We had to deliver an "R" rated film; this was a contractual obligation. When the MPAA insisted on a reduction of nudity in the so called orgy scene we had to do something to satisfy the MPAA. I could not possibly change Stanley's cut and it was therefore decided to superimpose more "cloaks" into this stylised, unreal, dreamlike scene, which was supposed to be a look into an abyss of utter decadence, a Hieronymus Bosch like hell disguised in glamour. It would have been much cheaper and easier to re-cut the scene, but this would have been most disrespectful to Stanley.
QUINT: YOU MENTIONED THIS WHILE SPEAKING IN AUSTIN, BUT I'D LIKE YOU TO CONFIRM A FEW THINGS ABOUT A.I., FINALLY SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT, FOR THE WORLD READERSHIP OF THIS SITE. HOW CLOSELY DID SPIELBERG STICK TO KUBRICK'S ORIGINAL VISION OF A.I.?
JH: Very close as far as the story is concerned, not so close in form or detail. A typical form change was the music - Stanley had chosen the waltz from Richard Strauss' DER ROSENKAVALIER as his main theme which would have been used over and over in various arrangements. While this made a huge difference, it is still only a form change. I was particularly pleased to see that Steven Spielberg retained the ending: A jump of Artificial Intelligence by 2000 years forward, without explanation. The audience was allowed to interpret, fantasise and be open for the wonderful and mysterious existence of A.I., which was so powerful and advanced and was able to adopt only the creative side of us, the former masters, leaving all rivalry and jealousy behind. Showing this potential of mankind is a great compliment to us as a creation. For me this ending is the final high point of this fairy tale. After all, fairy tales are about us, about our dreams and nightmares and here is a parallel to the ending of "2001: A Space Odyssey": The great respect for the potential in us. There is more to Stanley than his pessimistic view of mankind.
QUINT: HOW DO YOU THINK KUBRICK WOULD HAVE REACTED TO THE FINISHED FILM? WOULD HE HAVE BEEN PROUD OR DISSAPOINTED?
JH: He would have been extremely proud.
QUINT: DID SPIELBERG ALTER THE ENDING OF THE FILM FROM KUBRICK'S ORIGINAL VISION IN ANY WAY, AS IS SPECULATED BY A GOOD LOT OF FANS?
JH: answered above.
QUINT: IN REGARDS TO THE UPCOMING DVD RELEASE OF A.I.: HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE DIGITAL ERASURE OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER FROM THE FILM? WOULD KUBRICK HAVE DISAGREED WITH THE REVISIONISM?
JH: I can't speak for Kubrick here.
I can see arguments for and against this, but on balance I agree with the decision: It may be an improper distraction seeing the much admired towers of the Trade Centre, which were one of the symbols for the USA and the Free World at the end of this fairy tale. After all, with all its brilliance and intelligence, this film sets out to stimulate and entertain.
QUINT: DID STANLEY CHANGE MUCH AS A PERSON AND A FILMMAKER SINCE YOU KNEW HIM?
JH: He got older and wiser. I am not the right person to answer this, since I was too close, spoke to him every day and truly liked him. We could easily drive each other up the wall, but we came down quickly and always made peace. I really liked him.
QUINT: WHY DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE DRAWN TO HIS FILMS AND CONSIDER THEM TO BE TOP EXAMPLES OF THE ART OF FILMMAKING?
JH: Those who are drawn to his films are drawn to the artistry of film making and want to be not only entertained but leave the cinema a bit richer. It is the same desire that draws people to a good book, to concerts or to art-galleries. Think back over the past 2000 years - what is left outside the conquerors, Kings and Queens who drew up the maps of our world? It is the artists, the great architects, the composers, the painters and sculptors, the writers and poets. And with the beginning of the 20th century we can add the film-makers. There may be 150 people at any given time living around the globe who will become immortal in this sense - Stanley Kubrick is one of them, and I think I am fairly objective here, since this is independent from an individual's like or dislike of this or that Kubrick film. This will be re-evaluated by each generation.
QUINT: WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON NEXT? DIDN'T YOU MENTION SOMETHING ABOUT PUTTING OUT A COUPLE OF BOOKS?
JH: Yes, the first book will come out early next year. It will be a picture book telling the story of Stanley Kubrick's life with photographs. Christiane Kubrick has written the captions and my colleague Anthony Frewin has designed this beautiful book.
We are further contemplating a book of Stanley Kubrick's own photographs, mainly the stills he took during his early years when he worked for LOOK Magazine.
QUINT: IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO ADD THAT I'VE NEGLECTED?
JH: Only that our editor, Melanie Viner Cuneo, was instrumental in
structuring the documentary - her talent and artistic heart beats throughout
this film. I have nothing else to add, enough is said and we don't want to
bore your readers.
There you have it, squirts. Bet you know more now than you did before reading. At any rate, keep yer eyes on the horizon, squirts, fer this crusty seaman has some pretty cool things coming up, including a special Halloween interview that'll give you nightmares. 'Til that day, squirts, this is Quint bidding you all a fond farewell and adieu.
-Quint
