Cool News
TrekMovie Has News Regarding The Involvement of Khan And Klingons!!
Ain’t It Cool’s own Merrick put that question mark after the words “Cumberbatch Role Revealed?” this morning but the cautious and reliable folks at another website are subsequently reporting that “Sherlock” icon Benedict Cumberbatch is definitely playing time-displaced man-made Asian superhuman Khan Noonian Singh:
… TrekMovie has also confirmed this with a number of sources so we no longer consider it to be a rumor. Khan is back in 2013, however sources indicate that the film is not a rehash of "Space Seed," the original Star Trek episode where Kirk and crew first encounter the genetic superman from the past.
Not a rehash of “Space Seed”?
A digression of pure speculation: What if Old Spock Prime dispatched a heavily armed crew to where he knew the Botany Bay would be drifting? What if Khan and his crew were (likely against Old Spock's protests) quickly caged and “broken” and repurposed into Starfleet Team Six, the Federation’s most deadly secret weapon? And what if this “tamed” Khan, with his genetically-engineered superior intelligence, has spent years biding his time as Starfleet puts more and more of its trust in him? End digression.
Perhaps just as excitingly, TrekMovie says those other iconic villians, The Klingons, will not be deleted from next year’s “Trek” feature:
… TrekMovie sources indicate that this time the Klingons are not a sub-plot that could be easily cut out of the film, so we will finally see the JJ-verse version of Klingons on the big screen.
Another speculative digression occurs! What if the Klingons are utilized early on to demonstrate how badass Khan’s Starfleet Team Six is? (Recall a similar strategy was once employed to demonstrate how badass V’ger was.) Will we finally get to see a Khan-Klingon throwdown?
And which Klingons would Khan humiliate with humane Earther capture? Kor? Kang? Koloth?
Directed by J.J. Abrams from a screenplay by Bob Orci, Alex Kurtzman and Damon Lindelof, the untitled 2013 Trek movie has finished its soundstage photography and is currently shooting on location in Northern California. It is poised to hit cinemas in one year and 17 days.
Find all of TrekMovie’s story on these matters here.
Readers Talkback
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It's a hilarious day in movie news.
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seems like blockbuster news week! Keep 'em coming!
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if this makes me more or less interested in this movie.
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April 30, 2012, 11:13 p.m. CST
WHATEVER! Abrams and his Hollywood rehash bullshit isn't worth my time.
by IronEagle74
So sad that the concept of ORIGINAL IDEAS has left the movie making business.
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April 30, 2012, 11:15 p.m. CST
I will reserve my judgement for when i see pictures. Then I will say its doomed...because thats how I roll.
by gk1
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April 30, 2012, 11:16 p.m. CST
Khan will turn out to be a good guy, and the film ends with a Borg cliffhanger
by zillabeast
Heard it here first.
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April 30, 2012, 11:18 p.m. CST
Cumbersnatch is a good choice for Kahn, but how will they make him HATE Kirk, and thirst for revenge, without the backstory of "Space Seed"?
by FreeBeer
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Ok, so we all know that Vulcan has been destroyed, along with the vast majority of the Vulcan race. Besides the loss of his home, what immediate effect would this have on Spock Prime? 1: He knows that the future can be changed, without the creation of a paradox (alternate universe) 2: He knows that in about 15 years his younger self will likely get into a throw-down with Khan, leading to his death. 3: The method for cheating te previously mentioned death is now sucked into a black hole. What is a Spock Prime to do?? Let Starfleet know about this genetically engineered maniac of course! Or The Klingons find Khan, leading to a confrontation between The New Cast and Khan backed by Klingons. Spock shows up for 45 seconds to givessome sagely advice on how dangerous Khan is to the new crew.
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April 30, 2012, 11:22 p.m. CST
I'm sure we'll see my namesake in this movie..
by LeonardsBellbottoms
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......is, mostly nothing more than incredibly good at PR'ing his own work (before it's released), and gaining international interest - via sites, conundrums (Cloverfield, sorry, I meant 'Blair Witch Godzilla') etc....or just confusing the hell out of everyone (usually in conjunction with D. Lindehof <sic>) - 'Lost'. However, his Star Trek film, admittedly, succeeded in rejuvenating the franchise, after 'Enterprise' and some film flops - so, in that respect he achieved what both he and the studio wanted. Some trekkies weren't happy....newcomers were. Question to the Trekkies - do you think the film studio honchos really care about the ST canon, or.... beaucoup dollars??? Even if it is a bit ST 90210.
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April 30, 2012, 11:26 p.m. CST
This is bullshit. Anyone who says otherwise is, just... ya know...
by Jaka
...wrong! If this is true, how can anybody take this seriously? Why would they even mess with the Khan storyline at all? Just, bleh.
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or it can totally suck The scene where Khan bends the Star Fleet history officer to his will, Jesus, my childhood pivoted on that moment. "Will you open your heart." Fuck We'll see ...
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Weren't they last seen cloaked, hovering over a 'one', Mr O.B. Laden's, property in Pakistan?
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Wouldn't the original Spock be able to let them know all the shit heading their way. V'GER, the Probe, Reverand Jim...?
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Re-imagined as Occupy: Starfleet. Hilarity ensues.
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And this time with no particular explanation. Awesome. He wanted to make Star Wars, but Lucas obviously wouldn't let him. So he made a Star Wars movie and called it Star Trek. This was never made more obvious than when he cameo'd R2D2 in his Trek movie.
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I don't care how they alternate-timeline Khan; this is a rehash of a rehash of a fucking rehash. Klingons and Khan? I cannot think of two things I want to see less in a Star Trek movie. Fucking Wesley Crusher would be a more welcome sight. I liked the first one despite it's flaws. If they can make me like this despite the Wrath of Cumberkhan it'll be a fucking miracle.
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April 30, 2012, 11:44 p.m. CST
Mirror Mirror Khan shows up on the run from Emperor Tiberius
by MCVamp
He's basically space Ghandi with a snazzier goatee. Hilarity ensues.
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Aided by Abraham Lincoln, Surak, and Zefram Cochrane, the classic trio of Kirk, Spock and <del>Bones</del>Uhura race against time to save Balok from the Gorn.
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April 30, 2012, 11:57 p.m. CST
Okay, so Kahn Noonian Singh, the middle eastern height of physical perfection...
by Jaster Mareel
Is now a skinny, pasty Brit? Yeah, this movie officially sucks fucking cock now and I'm a MASSIVE fan of teh first. Sorry, there's no recovering from this shit. It's a deal-breaker.
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Rumors on one site, being picked up by another site, speculation added, then those rehashed and augmented rumors being used by the original site as confirmation their original rumors were true. Names, Pics, Legitimate Script...until I see something along these lines it might just as well be more shit from the guy who sent you dudes the "Prometheus" script. And we see how THAT scoop worked out.
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May 1, 2012, 12:01 a.m. CST
Joel Goldsmith Has Died of Cancer at 54, Says Dateline Hollywood
by Longtime Lurker
R.I.P.
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J Bardem - yeah mate....that's a damn nice call.
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May 1, 2012, 12:15 a.m. CST
Herc, I like your mashup of a story, hopefully J.J. Orci and pals can make it work.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
Damn, I really wanted a BATMANUEL Kahn.
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hilarity ensued!
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Seriously, how is someone suppose to avoid a spoiler about plot points in a film if you put it in the headline. This is Trekmovie.com headline. "Major Star Trek Sequel Spoilers Confirmed " Nothing given away there. Would something similar be too frackin' hard for the morons on this site to write??? Evidently so...
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JJ basically used a Crisis on Infinite Earths type event to reset the timeline of Trek...and now we basically have an Ultimate Star Trek (ala Marvels ultimate titles)....thus did anyone think they were nt going to do re-interpretations of Khan, the Klingons etc....?
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May 1, 2012, 12:19 a.m. CST
wrath_of_fett ...I'll wait till there is LEGITIMATE Confirmation...
by conspiracy
I can't believe that there would be such a massive miscasting of such a well known, well loved, character. Despite Asimovs rants to the contrary...even JJ couldn't be THIS FAR off the casting mark. I'd rather think Cumbersnatch is NOT Khan. Unless they TOTALLY fucked with who Khan Noonien Singh is...if which case I have ZERO fucking Interest in this film. Cumbersnatch as Khan=Pirate Fucking Bay
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not clever or creative enough to come up with something original that will be good....so its probably a lot easier for them to play with the pre-exisitng toybox.....will this be good? Who knows......but only if JJ makes an actual Star Trek film as opposed to a Star Wars film in disguise...
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will be more star wars again...simply because more of a focus on action (i love action...nothing wrong with it, but Star trek was never an action series) is what will make it sellable internationally.....Paramount wants some of that Dark Knight, Avengers etc money.... so they will want Trek 12 to be to Trek 11 what TDK was to BB...... We have to remember that Trek 09 did not make much internationally...more than 70% of its BO came from North America....and Trek has never really sold well in most of the world. So upping the action and focusing on it will help them do that.....but it means sacrificing what Trek has always been about imho..... Though I assume if Trek 12 performs the same way and does nt make a lot of money internationally too...then I dont think Paramount will continue to pony up for big budget Trek films anymore...
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May 1, 2012, 12:29 a.m. CST
Don't worry, it will still be the classic Trek we all know, with Kirk, Spock, and Uhura working together as the main...uh...
by MCVamp
...yyyeah.
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good thing since Treks history of creating new villains for the movies that had never appeared in the tv shows is not good. Who remembers those classic villains....Sybok, , or Dr Soran, the So'na, or the Remens......? But when they use the classics....Klingons, Borg, Khan...we have usually gotten good trek....
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It used to be about exploring space and encountering a galaxy of adventures. Now it's a Bond movie with a supervillain in outer space. They've been aping Wrath of Khan ever since it came out. PROMETHEUS is exactly the kind of mind-blowing story a STAR TREK film can do. Instead it's which star's going to shave his head and wear a cape and swear revenge against Kirk/Picard/Whatever. Hopefully, this will be different. The supervillain part was the worst part of the last one, because it's a plot point WHERE EVERYONE HAS GONE BEFORE! (cue music)
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May 1, 2012, 12:46 a.m. CST
Yeah, it's Khan. Trekmovie sources are way, way better than AICN sources.
by Al
When it comes to Star Trek, I'll take the word of Trekmovie any day of the week.
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May 1, 2012, 12:51 a.m. CST
Also it was originally reported as Khan, then it went away, now two different sources are confirming it.
by Al
Once again, Trekmovie is quite a reputable Star Trek news website, boborci posts there more than on AICN, and the webmaster recorded a commentary track for First Contact with Damon Lindeolf for the Blu Ray, and even the comic book "Countdown" tie-in had something to do with back and forthing between Orci & the webmaster. Is legit. Wouldn't buy it from other sources, but from them I totally say it's legit.
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Do it will pills, if that makes it easier. But do it.
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To remove my foot from my mouth. Khan is back, hmmmmmmmmmm.
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i miss star trek. i wish it was about ideas again but i guess..that's a tall order. 2k12 mayan apocalypse ya'llllll.
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don't know if it makes sense to turn that into a movie. Time will tell.
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May 1, 2012, 1:09 a.m. CST
WHY? WHY KHAN? THERE WAS NO NEED TO TOUCH KHAN. KHAN WAS FINE THE WAY HE WAS.
by J-Dizzle
Thanks a lot Trek fans who kept talking about Khan. If you guys had just kept your mouths shut then JJ "I'm not a Trek fan and know nothing about it" Abrams wouldn't have got it into his thick head to use Khan. Now Khan is fucked into mediocrity. I'm not saying Abrams is a crap film maker. Its just he can't do the character justice because the original was just so damn perfect.
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May 1, 2012, 1:54 a.m. CST
@warrenfahy, re "Why always with the supervillains?"
by Hardboiled Wonderland
Amen, brother. Amen!
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where he has become the mafia Don. He plans to help the Yangs of Omega IV defend themselves against the Kohms who plan to overrun their wholesome goodness with their asian communism. Khan inadvertently helps Federation Team 6 assassinate the Yang president... hilarity ensues.
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but is sucked into the giant plot whole, errr, black whole at the center of JJs ST universe.
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... I've enjoyed his movies thus far and I like how he handled Star Trek. I'm not entirely thrilled with Khan being in this but I'm open to see what happens.
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Good point. I wasn't even looking for Trek news and then, on an innocent scroll on the main page, got more than I needed.
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May 1, 2012, 2:34 a.m. CST
What if the reawakened Khan hosted the Federation's favorite game show?
by Cosmik
What is with the "what if" crap?
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you must have really lost your shit when I posted this one two years ago: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/46494 To say nothing of the 2-year-old TrekMovie headline it links to: "Star Trek Sequel Update: Abrams, Orci & Kurtzman Talk Khan, Klingons & more" And you must have wanted to kill yourself when Paramount put Montalban's name and face on the poster for "The Wrath of Khan" back in 1982. And peed your theater seat when the word "Khan" and Montalban's name appeared in the opening credits.
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"WAH! I don't like people speculating about stuff! WAH! I just want real news like famous actors standing next to boom microphones in the behind the scenes pick of the day! WAH!"
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May 1, 2012, 3 a.m. CST
Star Trek (2009) anally raped my childhood. Now it seems the sequel is going to pour sugar into my gas tank.
by marshallwtoneil
Cheers JJ & co, Really appreciate that.
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don't forget the Guardian of Forever. Or those annoying Talosians!
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May 1, 2012, 3:25 a.m. CST
It would be interesting if the Klingons were to have found the Botany Bay first
by Chuck_Chuckwalla
Then Khan becomes their leader. But if this is the actor playing Khan then, something is terribly wrong. Ethnicity notwithstanding, he just doesn't have the raw, animal magnetism and ferociousness that Montalban had. Khan should be played by a fucking bad ass. Someone mentioned Bardem and I would have to agree.
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can't wait till we get to see the film
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something completely new and independent is needed to show stories with ideas instead of mindless action. studios know millions of idiots will watch anything as long as they don't have to think. just consume their "product" like fast food made by evil flunkeys like bob orci. thanks for continuing the descent of culture, bob.
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This sounds bad ass!
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I'll still see the movie, but I was hoping for an original story which was a bit more sci-fi. Why do we need a rehash of Khan. It can't be as iconic as STII - theres no point in competing. I suppose it was too much to hope Hollywood could be original with a big property. Ho Hum.
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May 1, 2012, 4:31 a.m. CST
I hate it when it's always "the villain of the next movie is" ...
by theyreflockingthisway
Yawn. It usually means a bad guy is going to stir up some trouble and our heroes must stop them. Generally a good story needs an antagonist, no question, but it's the hyping up of the villain I dislike. Especially with super hero films (The Dark Knight being an exception) the villain comes in, causes some trouble, the hero defeats him/her, the end. That's one reason I'm looking forward to Prometheus - no villain. Sure there's the space jockeys but we don't know if they're good or bad yet. There'll be peril but we don't know what. We're seeing it because we're intrigued by the universe it's presenting, not what bad guy they have to fight. For the next batch of super hero films, I'd love them to attempt one without a main villain. Just for a change. Not necessarily about the hero's personal life or anything, but to try and solve a problem that isn't some guy stirring things up.
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but I s'pose Ricardo wasn't exactly Indian either.
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You guys read way too much into that. The Eugenics Wars would have left racial identities pretty scrambled.
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when they can't even bother to show the audience what the motivations are or have an antagonist that isn;t a cartoon or caricature... as we are seeing with the avengers and jj trek, the writing is done by focus group testing and marketing to appeal to the average, the masses. this is why the likes of orci are unable and unwilling to write something unfamiliar, because the unkown might make someone uncomfortable and when your only purpose in life is selling a product, you are never going to be an artist or have a soul. their destiny is the ordinary not extraordinary...
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Geezus christ! I can't beleive so many people come here to complain! While i'm not crazy about the Khan casting, and I do agree that Javier Bardem would be great! I loved the JJ Abrams Reboot! You have to admit the old trek was getting BORING! how many "Let's do an alternate universe or a time travel episode!" do you friggin want to do? Oh wait, let's throw some more BORG in there!?! Dude, if you love the old trek so much, then don't go to the theater if all you're going to do is bitch! Stay home and watch reruns on your tv. and let the rest of us who actually APPRECIATE the new versions friggin enjoy it! DAMN STFU! -Rex
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Geezus christ! I can't beleive so many people come here to complain! While i'm not crazy about the Khan casting, and I do agree that Javier Bardem would be great! I loved the JJ Abrams Reboot! You have to admit the old trek was getting BORING! how many "Let's do an alternate universe or a time travel episode!" do you friggin want to do? Oh wait, let's throw some more BORG in there!?! Dude, if you love the old trek so much, then don't go to the theater if all you're going to do is bitch! Stay home and watch reruns on your tv. and let the rest of us who actually APPRECIATE the new versions friggin enjoy it! DAMN STFU! -Rex
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I love Trek to pieces, but it had turned into a total parody of itself - Abrahms versions had huge issues (hello beer distillery of an engine room) but it brought the franchise back to life, and the characters were pretty spot on - plus, it salvaged Spock! The Kahn thing sounds rather brilliant, actually.
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May 1, 2012, 5:29 a.m. CST
To explore strange new plotlines, to seek out 45 year old stories and old characters...
by YackBacker
To meekly rewrite what's been written just fine already!
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doesn't exempt you from being struck by a big lightning bolt, from the big man upstairs.....he knows what you mean! You can't fool him. Prick.
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"You have to admit the old trek was getting BORING! how many "Let's do an alternate universe or a time travel episode!" do you friggin want to do? Oh wait, let's throw some more BORG in there!?!" ......errrrrrr......the whol new Trek series, is based on an alternative universe........so what's your point exactly? Either way, I'm not a JJ Abrams hater, I liked the last Trek film, and look forward to a new one.
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I concur that you don't need a good villain to make a good film, but audiences have been dumbed down a lot since 1986.
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Gonna clap my hands and jump for joy--got a clean bill of health from Doctor McCoy!
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May 1, 2012, 6:22 a.m. CST
not a big deal but i predicted Khan and the Klingons a while ago
by CARTMANEZ
post entitled "how about this for Khan in the sequel (or the 3rd one) " http://www.aintitcool.com/node/52160 another Federation vessel (Reliant) led by Captain Decker (stephen Collins) finds the botany bay and gets totally POWNED by Khan who kills everyone and steals the ship (basically what wouldve happened in Space Seed had Khan not picked on Captain Kirk - and obviously what did happen in The Wrath of Khan) Khans federation ship venters into klingon space and is attacked by klingons scout ships, Khan destroys them and captures a klingon BOP which he then comendeers (shades of Star Trek III and the 'Enterprise' augments episodes) and then uses it to attack Federation ships/colonies - inciting a war between the federation and the klingon empire (kind of like Star Trek VI in that respect as well as the 'Enterprise' augments 3 parter)..his ultimate aim to have them wipe each other out so he becomes ruler of the galaxy. (lots of talk about destiny, how they fled earth for this purpose etc) Kirk and crew are given the task of sorting it all out against a back drop of epic space battles (Federation ships vs klingon cruisers and BOPs, Enterprise vs Reliant etc), possibly include some Genesis/red matter style mcguffin, intrigue/ mystrey/twilight zone eeriness, discovering who khan is, subtle hints that this has all happened before and differently (possible Nimoy cameo) - eventually revealing to the Klingon High Command that Khan is behind it, ends with Kirk and Khan finally confronting each other and engaging in an epic fight, Khan eventually marooned somewhere (not killed) so itd be kind of 2 villains like in The Dark Knight - Khan who is a nutjob psycho causing a heap of trouble (joker) and Klingons who arent that aggressive to the Federation at the start but due to khan stirring s**t up become a really formidable enemy (Harvey Dent) all plays out differently to Space Seed and TWOK (but with the odd similarity/homage) - no Khan wanting revenge against kirk etc so it wouldnt really be another khan like villian out for revenge (which is what Nero was), no Genesis, maybe throw Carol Marcus in there as Kirks love interest. Familier klingons like Kor, Kolath, Kang, Kruge, etc Have the ‘No Country For Old Men’ bad guy as Khan. Plus get some A list stars to boost popularity and box office overseas - Arnie as the Klingon Emperor? Harrison Ford as the head of starfleet? Hanks as Captain Decker? Russel Crowe as Kruge? Reese Witherspoon as Carol Marcus? regarding Khans origins - maybe have a flash back scene or even a prologue showing him created/Eugenics wars in the 1990s - interesting dilema of how to handel the 1990s issue with canon etc - maybe just mention it but not be time specific...i.e. it happened sometime in earths past and let the (non trekkie) audience assume its sometime in the 21st century (post 2012) but have nothing to suggest it wasnt the 1990s (so as not to upset us fans whod scream 'CANON VIOLATION!')…like in the Enterprise Augments 3 parter (even Khan is mentioned) but no mention of the actual year……or as in the Cox books have Khan and TEW as having happened discreetly (as we know the novels do sometimes influence on screen canon) . Could probably delve into the origins of the klingons too (as their origins havent really been touched upon in any series) also the Klingons could find out the DNA that caused their race’s mutation is the same DNA in Khan and his people (see 'Enterprise' season 4) therefore causing further friction funnily enough early reports about The Wrath of Khan erroneously said Khan was leader of the klingons....plus in Trek II khan mentions the old klingon proverb...maybe that was a prelude to a tantalising glimpse into another reality where he is their leader or adversary?
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Khan is not some skinny white guy with sparks shooting out of his hair.
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Ricardo Montalban was 46 when he made Space Seed in 1966 Benicio Del Toro will be 46 next year Benedict Cumberbatch is 36 still i suppose theres no reason why superman Khan had to be Ricardo Montalbans age in Space Seed...maybe he was supposed to be more Kirks age? (Montalban certainly didnt look 46)
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May 1, 2012, 6:46 a.m. CST
LOl Herc... that was a great response to the WAUGHHH!! displayed here.
by gotilk
And I only have one request of JJ ST2. I want a Spock/Space-Hippie jam session with Spock on Space Harp. Yea Brother.
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May 1, 2012, 6:47 a.m. CST
In related news, Spock Prime was as surprised as anyone...
by buggerbugger
...to learn that a 24th-century mining ship time-travelling back to the year 2233 had inexplicably caused some previously-swarthy Khan dude to be born white in the late 20th century. Then he went back to not giving a half-Vulcan fuck, just like he didn't give a half-Vulcan fuck about knowing that he could easily time travel into the past and retcon this entire shitty new timeline out of existence, thus preventing his homeworld from being destroyed and putting the course of future history back on track. No, fuck that, he thought. He'd much rather have the Federation drastically weakened without Vulcan's support, strengthening the position of the Klingons and Romulans along the Neutral Zone and, who knows, just letting the Borg turn up at some point in their dozy Rubik's Cubes to turn everyone into gay disco robots. Fuck, if you'll sit back and let some random Romulan miners completely alter the course of universal history, you might as well let some fucking gay disco robots from the future give it their best shot, too. Mr. Spock time-travelled into the past and became FUCKING STUPID as a result of the trip. Who knows, maybe his dentures are made from some material that causes senility in Vulcans?
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Does that **really** scream "genetic superiority" to anyone?
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May 1, 2012, 6:53 a.m. CST
I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT FEELING CUMBERBATCH AS KHAN. WAS ANTONIO BANDERAS TOO BUSY TO PICK UP THE PHONE?
by Darth Busey
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May 1, 2012, 6:54 a.m. CST
re: "how many "Let's do an alternate universe or a time travel episode!" do you friggin want to do?"
by buggerbugger
A question that should be asked of Abrams, Kurtzman, Lindelof and Orci rather than of talkbackers, surely?
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May 1, 2012, 6:54 a.m. CST
If this is bogus, I expect Abrams, Orci, etc. to issue a fast, ad ament
by BoyNamedSue
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May 1, 2012, 6:56 a.m. CST
If this is bogus, I expect a quick, adamant denial from Abrams, Orci, etc.
by BoyNamedSue
I was hoping for an ORIGINAL villain, not an ORIGINAL SERIES villain!
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“It’s definitely a character that will make fans of TOS excited. Think along the lines of Harry Mudd or Trelane or Gary Mitchell or the Talosians or the Horta. Actually it’s one of those that I named.” So the above was a lie?
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1) He has been surgically altered to remain incognito for the purposes of whatever he's cooking up. I mean, an infamous warlord from the Eugenics Wars centuries prior would stick out like a sore thumb. 2) Cumberbatch is not Khan, but in fact his lieutenant as someone suggested previously suggested and Khan will show up at the end and this will be a dove-tail prelude to space seed.
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...is a different man than Ricardo Montalban's character. They're meeting him in the 'Space Seed'. For my part, I plan to rewatch that episode before I see the movie to see what kind of references it has. And what kind of contrast.<br /> <br /> The original Kirk knew his father and had more respect for authority. If the movie is written well, then I think the writers will give us details that show how this Khan differs from the original 'Space Seed' Khan.<br /> <br /> I hope they don't kill him. I hope the movie has an ending similar to 'Space Seed'. It would be cool if Khan's appearance here was to setup his later appearance in, say, the fourth film. People can bitch about ideas being recycled but I'd love to see a redux of the whole Khan/Genesis storyline and watch his feud with Kirk carry over a long period of time, as the two grow and change.
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But this one has me nervous. Really nervous. Shit my pants nervous. Oh, fuck, what are they doing?
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May 1, 2012, 7:42 a.m. CST
Khan up til the time he is met by the Enterprise should not be different
by HornOrSilk
He is from the past, from before the new universe. His past, his persona would not change. The situation would. That will be what creates the new outcome. But if you change the backstory of Khan, only way to do that is if more time has changed
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May 1, 2012, 7:59 a.m. CST
Will try to suspend skepticism until first viewing-- I trust Cumberbatch and Abrams (in this case)
by chifforobe
I'm not crazy about Abrams, but I think Trek '09 was his best effort so far. I'm a TOS guy, and to be honest I liked the '09 film more than any other post TOS effort. Just personal taste, of course. I understand the concern about bringing Khan back-- since he was done so well already, and it seems ham-fisted to revisit Part 2 for Part 2 Part 2-- but I won't condemn it yet.
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This is fiction, these folks are actors, who cares. If Cumberbatch does a different take on Khan, which I'm sure he will, it's not a big deal (if it's good). Did the USS Kelvin look like a TOS Starfleet ship? No-- it's movies, folks. Complain if the movie stinks, that's all that matters.
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then why bother having Kirk and Spock etc in the new films either? – dosnt that show a lack of originality? – the star trek universe is a big place, surely they couldve/shouldve gone with an all new crew on a new ship…. Wrath Of Khan is the most popular, enduring ST movie of them all. the template that most of the other movies followed so itd make sense to capitalise on Trek 09s success with the most recognisable/popular villain for the sequel, done a new and different way - like TDK did with the joker after Batman Begins - ST09 was sort of taking its cue from the Batman reboot(set up with not so well known villain so no overshadow the main characters introduction) so id expect them to follow doing similar stuff with the sequel (I.e. hit everyone with the most well known villain for the sequel - in the ST09 dvd commentary they even said there was a Botany Bay ending discussed ) Why bother saving Khan for a 3rd or 4th when if the 2nd isn’t that great - dosnt engage audience due to weak villain etc there wont even BE a 3rd or 4th Also Khan hasn’t been exactly overused - 1 episode and 1 movie - and it cant be the madman TWOK version of Khan out for revenge anyway (which is pretty much what Nero was) i guess they couldve done klingons only for star trek ‘2' and set Khan up for the villain for Star Trek ‘3' (something similar to the way the joker was set up at the end of Batman Begins) but itd be much better if the combined them into one movie and focus on another classic villain re-imagined for the 3rd film in 2015 (e.g. the borg and explore how they came to be - which hasn’t been done yet)
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Given that Vulcan's gone BOOM, it's pretty much put paid to TREK history, so how would be be changing the future by warning the Federation about a few little things such as Nomad/V'Ger ("Oh, and, by the way, remember to have them download their prodigious stores of knowledge BEFORE you blow them up. It might come in handy some time.") and the planet killing Doomsday Machine and how to deal with them. Might save a solar system or three that way, and gain a huge tech advantage.
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Do not listen to that other fool. He is the traitor! I have been reborn, after dying on planet Vulcan in the film. I have returned to witness the second film in this new series. Do not worry about this film being bad, nor listen to this imposter, because Star Trek 2 will be just as good as the last one. This fake individual will do anything to dissuade you, so do not respond to him or do anything to anger this fool! Let me deal with him, and only me, because he will do everything to ruin your experience of this new Star Trek film. I am Asimov and I live, die, and live again.
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15 year old kids who buy movie tickets don't even know who the hell Kahn is. So it's a new character to them.
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Khan is NOT the bad guy! Given JJ's Trekverse has a different timeline, it would be astoundingly boring to fight Khan again. If the character appears, I hope it's as an ally. Then we can get on with a NEW adventure. I keep hoping weird/supernatural/alien elements to appear such as Squire of Gothos/Castspaw/Charlie X.
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May 1, 2012, 9:11 a.m. CST
Battleship sucks in all the ways that a movie can suck pretty much.
by UltraTron
That Rihanna(is that her name?) is the worst non-actor you've ever had to suffer. The characters pretty much all suck terribly. Peter Berg(is that his name?) is actually as stupid as he looks and sounds. The movie is worse than any movie that's done the same things better. The plot and execution is terrible and stupid in the extreme. The alien ships even have the transformers sound layered in for no reason. Maybe that's the Hasbro trademark now. The aliens look like mass effect or halo and are actually retarded. It's an alien short bus that happens upon our world. The movie is bad folks. Worse than anything this big in a long time. The effects are great but is there a single memorable thing about the designs. Battle Beyond the Stars had the boob ship- I remember that. You know your movie sucks when id4 and Armageddon blow it completely away.
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May 1, 2012, 9:14 a.m. CST
Battleship sucks so bad it makes Jar Trek look like Olivia Wilde's face on your crotch
by UltraTron
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I think they should have them look human just like in the original. Maybe even address that question of why?
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If you are going to nerd it up with a quote - get it correct!
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May 1, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST
Team Six? Really Herc? I think you just ended up confusing a lot of folks here.
by impossibledreamers
And that concept makes no damn sense at all. I can see the whole Old Spock warns Starfleet about Khan once the Botany Bay is found but I couldn't see trusting them that far even if they managed to 'reform' them. I could see attempts at reform and then offering Khan and his followers re-integration and then Khan goes off and... well, acts like Khan.
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May 1, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
Great, ANOTHER "Revenge!!" Story. Didn't they just MAKE a "revenge/vendetta"
by Dursman2000
I liked the Abrams TREK an awful lot, but the "revenge
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...I liked the Abrams TREK a lot, but the Nero aspect felt like old hat after Khan, Nemesis, etc. Now they're going back to the same well AGAIN? It just feels ridiculous. Hundreds and hundreds of different styles of Trek stories and it seems the only type they're interested in now are the action oriented, personal-revenge vendetta plots. Lame.
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May 1, 2012, 9:47 a.m. CST
Khan = boring lack of imagination, hedging of bets - how about exploring strange new worlds and civilizations, how about a science fiction adventure, without a fucking villain AT ALL!!!!!!!
by Michael Lunney
how about a fucking science fiction adventure, without a fucking villain AT ALL!!!!!!! not every Star Trek episode revolved around fighting some bad guy- just plain old fucking boring warmed over shit in the making
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spock prime gonna die so that reboot spock can live. bet ur authentically detailed luke skywalker light saber on it.
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Relax, I was pointing at myself in the mirror. So much for the hope of Exploring Strange, New Worlds. I was really hoping for that in a....you know....Star Trek movie. 01.) Exploring something strange and new. 02.) Age, Mortality and Revenge tale. 03.) Chaos of losing everything and starting new. 04.) Exploring something strange and new. 05.) Exploring something strange and new. 06.) Swan song wrapped around a murder mystery. 07.) Chaos of losing everything and starting new. 08.) Action Revenge tale. 09.) Soft morality tale. 10.) Action Revenge tale. 11.) Action Revenge tale. 12.) Action Revenge tale? Sigh.
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May 1, 2012, 10:12 a.m. CST
yes, but will Khan win against the lens flare orgy? Inquiring minds want to know....
by cozy
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The first film had holdovers from the series to hit the ground running, OK? It had Romulans (classic Trek heavies) as villians, and Leonard Nimoy reprising his role as Spock. That to me was fine. It needed something to place it into context with what had come before - whilst springboarding into something new. I was hoping the sequel would give us something brand new never before seen in Trek. A brand new villian, a brand new alien race. I neither wanted to see Klingons nor Khan. I wanted it to go it's own way. In a way, this sequel should've been Abrams' REAL Trek movie, as he could now free himself of unwanted baggage. Despite loving Nimoy - I think that whilst the character of Spock Prime should still have appeared in the sequel - the role should've been played by Zachary Quinto in old man make up. A double role for Quinto. Both Spock and Spock Prime - and use SFX trickery to make them appear in the same shots together. Bringing back Khan? Klingons? What's the point of this reboot if all they are going to do is parade old Trek villians around? Like I said, this naval gazing should've been dropped after the first movie - and this new movie should totally expore the alternate timeline and the unique possibilities such a thing could bring. Bringing in Khan is like fanboy pandering, except with the unique problem of it being something the fanboys DON'T want to see. If it's true and Cumberhatch really IS playing Khan - I ain't going to lie to you. It'll be a big dissapointment.
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May 1, 2012, 10:20 a.m. CST
But weren't the lense flairs used to invoke a dreamy sense of awe and futuristic wonder?
by UltraTron
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...Abrams & Co. would NEVER indulge in spreading false rumors to confuse fans and throw them off.
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May 1, 2012, 10:29 a.m. CST
a screenplay by Bob Orci, Alex Kurtzman and Damon Lindelof
by kwisatzhaderach
And with this one sentence, the project is doomed.
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Amen brother. I couldn't agree more.
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The Wrath Of Nero.Take away the Starfleet Academy\how the crew met stuff,and the plot is basically Wrath of Khan all over again.Do we REALLY need to see that guy again?Nobody will top Ricardo,certainly not Cucumberpatch,so dont bother.Somebody said that todays target audience of 15 year old ADHD prats wont have seen WOK and wont know who Khan actually is.Well,they can rent the original movie cant they!!!Or are they too stupid for that?And will todays teenagers actually know what Star Trek is?Just make a good movie,and think up some new villains and races,eh?Because if you keep pandering to teenagers,focus groups,internerds,etc you will just wind up with Star Trek-Vs_Battlestar Galactica starring Justin Bieber.......
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Thanks dude. It's a shame. What those guys did with the first movie had an awful lot of potential. I liked it, and dug the vibe. By treading over the same old ground - it's obvious they are still going for nostalgia dollars in the (vain?) hope it'll put asses on seats. By taking the Khan/Klingons route it just highlights to me that THEY THEMSELVES have little faith in the new universe they have created. And that doesn't bode very well for the actual quality of the material.
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May 1, 2012, 10:48 a.m. CST
orci and kurzman really are the pair of hackiest hacks that ever hacked. HACK!
by Cameron1
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May 1, 2012, 10:54 a.m. CST
Cultural paradoxes (that being the inability to find a suitable Indian / Sikh actor from a country of a billion people) aside...
by obijuanmartinez
Cumberbatch is a great actor - Enjoy him in Sherlock, and liked his parts in the recent Warhorse & Tinker, Tailor films. He'll be just fine. The story premise is not all that offensive; yes, the inevitable comparisons will flow (and flow), and the negative slant will reign for a time, but that won't stop a great many of you from plunking down anyway to see this flick next year...
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May 1, 2012, 11:11 a.m. CST
I swear to God, if a chestburster pops out of Khan, I'm walking out!
by victor82
I would put nothing past Jar Jar and company...
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...And apparently that's exactly what's happening. In the days after 09 came out, all the old Trekkies were begging for Khan as the sequel, like children who just NEED to hear Green Eggs And Ham for the 50th time. And here it is. If you want to get pissed, get pissed at all the Trekkies that loudly wanted retread stories instead of a new direction, back when Orci, Alex Kurtzman and Damon Lindelof were at square one. I'm thinking the Biggest problem with that trio is they fan service like a 3-dollar truck stop hooker. Don't ya'll wish you had a Moffat, right about now? I know I do.
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May 1, 2012, 11:46 a.m. CST
Ok, I'm not a huge ST fanboy, but I grew up with it. However, ST with no Klingons is bullshit.
by ToughGuyRizzo
And TB'ers know I love JJ.
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Does anyone think KHAN could be "quickly caged and “broken” and re-purposed" because if not then you have to call all these spoilers as total crap
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Like STAR TREK: OF KLINGONS AND KHAN
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Cumberbatch would be good for playing someone intellectually intense (as we all know) but I don't quite see him as a guy who was once "a prince...with power over millions". He needs to be utterly charming, persuasive, physically intimidating, scary, and exuding power and magnetism. Not yet convinced.
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May 1, 2012, 12:52 p.m. CST
After extensive search and intensive competition for next ST script:
by kabong
ah goo goo gah gah
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And I doubt at this point that they are, I'll just say that I'm a bit disappointed. IF this is all true. I expected a bit more originality, a willingness to play in an alternate TREK world and to do your own thing without basically turning these new films into very expensively well made fan faction. You won me over on the first film through sheer force of will, especially in the cast. Story had plot holes that the wonderful comic prequel solved. If that had been shot the movie would easily had gone up by at least 2 stars, in my book. Still, other then one seriously depressing event, it was a lot of fun. This one...I hope it turns out entertaining, but after being a TREK fan since...well...1st generation, o'kay, right now I'm actually far more interested in IRON MAN 3. That's how far I think a team of very talented people have gone off the mark and are, based on what's being said right now, blowing a great opportunity. Welcome to the new Hollywood, kids. Enjoy the warmed over hash. It's our specialty. And if anyone out there thinks I can write that with anything remotely approaching a smile, you couldn't be more wrong.
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Think about it. That probe from Star Trek IV is still out there in the rebooted universe. Still headed to Earth, where there are still no humpback whales to respond. But now with the reboot, Spock isn't going to die because of the Genesis device. So Kirk & Co. are not going to steal the Enterprise to retrieve his body from the Genesis planet. Which means they will not end up on Vulcan at the same time the probe arrives on Earth, and they won't be available to solve the mystery and go back in time for the whales. I never thought about it before, but J.J. Abrams has screwed Earth in the new timeline. Big time. And with Vulcan already destroyed, I would assume the destruction of Earth will make the Federation extremely weak, possibly leading to its destruction/defeat/assimilation by the Borg. Damn you, J.J. Abrams. You've doomed us all.
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May 1, 2012, 1:03 p.m. CST
Netfilx Trek streaming deal, Polar Lights 1/350 Enterprise 1701 TOS, worldwide syndication, new novels, Thinkgeek TOS wall intercom panel. Round 2 repops, Simon and Schuster books, DVD sales...
by matineer
Star Trek didn't need reviving by this movie. It was doing quite well.
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and Star Trek reboot so disappointing
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May 1, 2012, 1:16 p.m. CST
Have Khan humiliate that Klingon that said the Enterprise would be "hauled away AS GARBAGE."
by Yotz Von Frelnik
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There's going to be 3 or 4 scenes with someone hanging from his/her fingertips for dear life over some chasm and the baddy will die either by falling into a giant hole or in a big s'plosion because that's the way it goes in american cinema.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkyISf_KDLI
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May 1, 2012, 2:20 p.m. CST
This was the film that many hardcore Trekkies really wanted....
by Chris Moody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkyISf_KDLI
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May 1, 2012, 2:43 p.m. CST
Herc, that's uncannily similar to what I wrote here several years ago
by Smoke Monster Loves Kate
as the best way to reboot the character. I had it ending with Khan taking Kirk's credit for repelling a huge Klingon assault of some kind which almost decimates Earth, then becoming dictator of Earth in the altered atmosphere (people frightened after having almost been annihilated) and starting a "Terran Empire" kind of thing, and controlling Starfleet like the NATO or UN to the United States. Film would end on a cliffhanger as Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise escape as hunted rebels.
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May 1, 2012, 2:45 p.m. CST
Also I agree with "repurposing" Khan as a ludicrous idea.
by Smoke Monster Loves Kate
I said it would have been a clone of Khan. They found the Botany Bay and left them in cryogenic suspension but cloned Khan for study.
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May 1, 2012, 2:48 p.m. CST
Abrams didn't even try to find a capable Indian actor
by Smoke Monster Loves Kate
There's millions of Indian, Middle Eastern, Southeast Asian, even South American actors spread across the world who speak English in all manner of accents, even American, and to say he didn't find a single one who could play Khan is silly. He didn't even look. He went with whoever's hot right now in the entertainment industry. Lazy way out. Damn shame too.
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May 1, 2012, 3:03 p.m. CST
This site doesn't give a shit about spoilers anymore.......it's all about getting traffic.
by James Freud
Wow, Herc even rubs it in our faces after the spoilery headline. As if yeah, we read EVERY ARTICLE on the internet, so we MUST HAVE SEEN those previous headlines! Herc, we're not all fat fucking turds like you who sit in front of a computer all day reading everything about Trek. We, you know, get off our asses once in a while and step out the front door, do a bit of exercise, socialize with real people. So yeah believe it or not, we MIGHT HAVE MISSED those previous articles, douchebag.
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May 1, 2012, 3:13 p.m. CST
The Star Trek film ~This~ Trekkie wants to see would look a lot like Prometheus.
by Perigee
Instead of writing a "Star Trek," why not buy a damned good spacer, and then replace the characters?
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May 1, 2012, 3:42 p.m. CST
Wonder if they will pull an "Anakan" arc with Khan? Next two pictures he goes evil.
by Pixelsmack
Interesting idea. He's a bad ass on the side of the Federation in ST2 and starts his turn near the end. Then in ST3 he's full on hate machine.
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But what about this. When Nero goes through the time portal to the past why doesn't he go to Romulus and warn them about the supernova explosion that will happen 80+ years from now. They would have been able to relocate their civilization to another planet in that time. Nero would have saved Romulus from destruction and been a hero. Instead he is consumed with getting vengeance on Spock for an event he could have avoided altogether.
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Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan? What a Bad bit of casting. Should have been Mark Strong at least he looks like someone that could have been Indian and hes extremely intimidating. Start 2 gonna be Shit. The Villian is no good!
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...have smooth heads or crested heads?
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You know..the ones that resemble some sort of angry, toothy, Quasi-vagina.
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May 1, 2012, 4:48 p.m. CST
If it IS Khan..., which I still have my doubts; my question is thus...
by conspiracy
Was it the writers decision, or a story requirement/demand from the studio or director? Was having a "Khan" story a precondition of doing another film; Paramount hoping to bank on the name recognition; or was this simply the story Bob and Alex came up with? Just curious...
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The Hobbit and now this, whats next Avengers 2 and the Joker in a Batman reboot, wait hey that might work!
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For the love of all that's holy... JJ FUCKING ABRAMS... what the hell is wrong with you and your creative team?! You did a wonderful job setting up a new, fresh timeline that didn't destroy the original one -yet still left room for new stories and now... you're shitting all over it! Key word in that sentence: "NEW" stories. You guys gave us a whole new open canvas to enjoy Trek on... And now you're going to use that newfound canvas to... repaint the Mona Lisa? WTF? Khan's story is told and you can't do it better. I won't say "you just lost a ticket sale" because I'm going to remain open to the idea that Abrams has something special in store... but, frankly, my excitement for this film just dropped below sea level. I just don't get this move at all. Very, very unoriginal and uninspired. This fan is bummed the fuck out.
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They will address that issue in the JarJar Star Trek 4. If Nimoy is dead by then we will have Quinto in make up playing Spock Prime. I figure since he's not doing anything new, just rebooting the entire Star Trek film series (minus TMP) we will see Humback Whales and the crew traveling back to our time. (2016 by the time it comes out) For all we know the Enterprise crew will have a dance number with whatever pop sensation is big by then. Maybe the begining will have a serial cliffhanger for a begining showing how the JarJar crew deals with V'ger. Then we will do the Khan thing. Beware Trekkies, possible future spoilers follow. Part 3 will see the destruction of the Enterprise from Klingon forces out for revenge after their humiliating defeat from Khan in part 2. Part 4 addresses the whale dillema and how this crew goes back to modern America to bring whales to the future. Instead of San Francisco they go to LA. Part 5 will see a Q playing god and judging mankind for fucking up their timeline. Part 6 will be the Swan song for this JarJar crew as we see whatever young 20-30 something year olds playing the Next Gen crew as they pass the baton for another round of Trek ass raping. Tiki out
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Don't get me wrong, folks. I'm a huge fan of Leonard Nimoy. He added a sense of charm and class to ST09 that was immeasurable. But we need to move the franchise FORWARD, not backward. This is the same type of mentality that started destroying Trek in the late 90s: the need to "play it safe" with known formulas, etc. (Now, granted, "Enterprise" was *trying* to step out of the mold, but it just didn't work out.) Mr. Nimoy, love ya pal, but you should've said No this time. (Although, I admit, the Trekkie in me would love to see more Nimoy in a Trek feature... But there comes a time where you just need to move on - and that time was now, but it looks like the proverbial pooch is about to get screwed once again. Though, I hope I'm completely wrong about that.)
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Also, I wanted to say it again. I told you bitches they were going to make this next one about Khan. I didn't even need spoilers or an accidental slip up by the writers to tell you that one. <P> These guys have no originality. None what so ever. They aren't even fucking trying.
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May 1, 2012, 6:41 p.m. CST
Spock should be helping the new Vulcan colony.... not messing with federation and time travel stuff.
by BRUTICUS
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May 1, 2012, 6:44 p.m. CST
Spock PRime I mean. Wow. the AICN talkback system from 10 years ago was better than this....
by BRUTICUS
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There were no studio requirements. We pitched them a story, they said yes, we wrote it, they green lit it, and here we are.
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May 1, 2012, 7:25 p.m. CST
boborci, you do realize this is going to fail miserably if true..
by Jaka
...right? I mean, seriously, it's going to tank. You are clearly underestimating how much people care about Space Seed and Wrath of Khan.
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I know how much people care about Space Seed and WOK. I am one of them.
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Sincere question. Why can't you confirm or deny it? Studio policy? Your policy? I've seen rumors for other movies before that pretty quickly got squashed when they were way off target. Wouldn't doing so be better than letting negative speculation run rampant?
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May 1, 2012, 7:37 p.m. CST
Remember, almost an entire movie generation passed before Heath Ledger redefined The Joker
by victor82
The genius of TDK was Ledger's redefinition of what had been up to that time Jack Nicholson's part. However, Nicholson's interpretation had been from the Early Nineties, and a new generation of kids, raised on the War on Terror, needed to know who the Joker was. I think that's why the Trek people are bringing Khan back. People from the Eighties know about Montalban's Khan, but kid's today, the ones who buy the merchandise, THEY don't know about Khan. If you want Star Trek to have it's Joker, you have to update him for the kids who go to tentpole films. Fanbois hate this, I know. But fanbois are an infinitesimal amount of ticket sales. I think that's the thinking here. I'm not saying I agree with it, but when I read that they were trying to follow the Batman Begins/Dark Knight arc, people had to expect Khan at some point. Would we like to see Ridley Scott Trek? Hell yes! But that Trek doesn't sell to 15 year old girls who go all dreamy over Captain Nu-Kirk.
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May 1, 2012, 7:42 p.m. CST
Because @boborci is still under Embargo to BadRobot and Paramount Pictures.
by victor82
You want the man fired? I mean, there are plenty of Indie projects Bob could do, but this job pays well.... Maybe Ridley Scott will take you on, Bob. "Prometheus, Part Deux: The Wrath of Ripley"
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I may give you hell for some of your films,...but damn if you don't take a verbal bullet like a man. Respect.
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May 1, 2012, 8 p.m. CST
I gotta tell you, I've been supporting this new endeavor, but this... is really crippling.
by Perigee
There was No fucking need to repeat Khan. Don't tell me how much you care about Space Seed - you sold out. You Sold Out. This isn't Batman, Gotham... one cartoon city with a rotating cast of bad guys. You had the Universe to choose from, and all you could squeeze out was a rehash. I am growing extremely peeved - and I hereby apologize to all of the rabid haters. You were right - the franchise was given to a bunch of losers that couldn't imagine a Real story if they were amped on an LSD drip. Fucking Khan. Thanks for wasting 4 years of my life, you idiot. Go make a Chipmunks film, you no-talent garbage. Somebody wrest control of the Franchise away from these assholes - who knows, maybe I'll get to see a Star Trek film before I fucking Die Of Old Fucking AGE. This isn't NuTrek - it's fucking RenuTrek, the recycled, ground-up, pressure-treated, scent-enhanced horseshit of a bankrupt imagination. I fucking believed in you. Die.
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Fine here's an honest one. I like the universe reboot concept. I think it's clever. I like the new cast well very much. I like the Spock/Uhura romance. I like the new Enterprise design, and the general adherence in style and look to TOS. I even liked the use of lens flares. I like the dialogue between characters. I did not like the laziness of the brewery. I do not like everything being so LOUD and KINETIC and EXTREME for no real reason other than to maintain the attention of addle-brained, texting, ADHD t'weens and teens. I didn't like the plot-holes, and relying conveniences. I would like the potential shown in the first movie to be driven forward, to explore strange, new frontiers. I would like meaningful character discussions, rather than FAST and BREATHLESS scenes that lose their power after the first viewing. I would like something with layered subtext that requires several viewings to fully appreciate. But Mr. Orci has stated not more than a couple of days ago how he couldn't care less if his movie is timeless, because we're all 'fucked and going to die soon anyway'. With an attempt to back-peddle later by claiming it was sarcasm, but the anger was clear. I have little faith in this project.
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I've seen plenty...they don't leave much wiggle room if you ever want to be trusted, or work, again; not to mention forfeiting any sales based points you are owed.
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May 1, 2012, 8:15 p.m. CST
Perigee - feels like just before the first movie all over again.
by Boborci
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May 1, 2012, 8:22 p.m. CST
...And like the Tird movie will be... featuring somebody else's concepts. Hell, add a bloop - kids dig animals.
by Perigee
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May 1, 2012, 8:23 p.m. CST
I predict a SHITSTORM of Epic Proportions on this topic come about Fall/Winter...
by conspiracy
It will make the Transformers Talkbacks look like amateur hour...venom, bile, and murderous Geek Hate. Dunno...Khan is Sacred....SACRED. And worse...it would seem he is being redone with no look towards the original character. A White Brit as Khan? Sacrilege! No hard feelings Bob..., this isn't personal...but I'm sharpening my quill.
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May 1, 2012, 8:23 p.m. CST
here's a novel idea: the new film might actually be fun!
by EleanorofAquitaine
I'll re-hash something I said elsewhere. Before the 2009 film came out a rumor spread that the plot was about Starfleet Academy. There was great wailing and nashing of teeth. "No! Terrible! Not true!" etc. And then we went to see the movie and it was about Starfleet Academy. But it was done with a twist (Nero changing the timeline). And the twist allowed for a character-driven plot that introduced the new Kirk, Spock, Bones, etc in a way that was lots of fun to a lot of people, me included. And I still love the old ST. So maybe this one will actually be about Khan. But if so, I am pretty certain, that, like the Starfleet Academy plot of 2009, it will be done with a twist that none of us are expecting. As for what the twist might be...I have no idea. And part of me wants to be surprised by it when I see it.
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May 1, 2012, 8:26 p.m. CST
Couldn't Spock Prime prevent the bridge-ification of Kirk?
by WhatTheHellHappenedToMe
He wouldn't even have to fuck with the prime directive by telling Kirk, he could leave a message for the yet-to-be-born Jean Luc Picard. Or get it to Soong somehow.
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I have faith that this incarnation is gonna be 100times worse than the old one. and remember trek lore always had this big rule in starfleet against genetic engineering, they touched on that in a few episodes of DS9 with Dr. Bashir, hopefully Khan will make them realize that!
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you paraphrase my sentiments about the film exactly. i am a life long trekker, and the new film was so far off the mark. spock falling in love with uhura? give me a fucking break. but i do love JJ's tv shows: ALIAS, LOST AND FRINGE. but at least those projects aren't all soap opera, like the ST film. whats more it was a little too-action oriented for my taste. hopefully the new film will be more about space exploration, i.e. seeking out brave new worlds and to boldy go where no man has gone before
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May 1, 2012, 8:39 p.m. CST
Khan is the shit! *hit* I mean *hit* The shit! *hit* *hit* *hit*
by rosetta the stoned
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May 1, 2012, 8:47 p.m. CST
Incoherent sentence structure, all caps or over-used exclamation points?
by 3774
Those are signs that you are *exactly* who these movies are made for.
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If I were writing the script, I'd have this parallel universe Enterprise outfitted with a log of everything Spock Prime feels they did wrong in his timeline, including waking up Khan. So I'd do a scene of an alternate version of Space Seed where the Enterprise knows better than to wake Khan and friends from stasis. Although using the Botony Bay as photon torpedo target practice might have a certain Klingonish satisfaction, I more "Trek" solution would probably to nudge the ship into setting down on a remote, uninhabited planet (one that isn't destined to become inhospitable in a few years) without Khan and company even knowing their journey had been adjusted. This would re-introduce the characters, give a nostalgic nod to the old series and remind us that it is its own timeline, not destined to just repeat the same mistakes over again.
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...that would a subtle, clever thing to do. Which is to say, impossible. Not enough Star Wars-esque explosions and frantic camera movement.
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May 1, 2012, 9:48 p.m. CST
Yeah but look, they could do RidleyTrek, but they need the Merchandising tie-in
by victor82
Apparently Paramount loved the story when it was pitched to them. They see dollar signs. Yes, WE want Khan revealed as the Space Jockey, but it won't happen. Nor will Khan be the Khan we know and love. But there is a fight over a volcano, which is a huge Lucas ripoff. Honestly, boborci, why didn't you just give everyone lightsabers and leave it at that? "No Kirk. Ambassador Spock never told you. I AM YOUR FATHER!"
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May 1, 2012, 9:58 p.m. CST
Throw in a scene with Q and Spock Prime while your at it.
by EastcoastAvenger
Give TNG fans a little hope that the hundreds of hours they invested into their show wasn't for naught.
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Make it so.
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That is like over half of the ST series. You have a whole universe to explorer and stupid revenge plots is all we get. Star Trek Voyager had the right idea to start, send them into the outer reaches of space and make them face the unknown. These revenge plots belong in Westerns not a universe where anything is possible. Try and deal with some larger ideas, everything devolves into this stupid human emotions plot and how we deal with it. It basically like every super hero movie now: hero faces crisis, does some soul searching, comes back to beat the bad guy. Batman almost quits every movie, so does Spiderman, Superman did, who else???
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May 1, 2012, 10:30 p.m. CST
Actually, yah, I'm Carbon Netural on redoing Khan but agreed, no more vengence!
by Tall_Boy6t6
If Khan is after revenge in this movie, that's 3 Trek movies in a row. Maybe even Insurrection if you think about. I do buy that revenge is now a part of Star Trek's thematic fabric (Wrath of Khan was that good that it's now an actual theme you play around with in Star Trek because it's such a humanist utopia & a very base instinct) but 4 Trek revenge-based antagonist movies in a row ... bit much, ain't it?
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And you know it.
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May 1, 2012, 11:12 p.m. CST
and if youre use an old villain, why use the most iconic one of all (arguably)?
by dahveed1972
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May 1, 2012, 11:12 p.m. CST
I was really hoping this one would involve some yknow space exploration. guess thats more of a tv episode.
by dahveed1972
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"ANGRY NERDS IN SPACE." 'Nuff said. Well, not really. The pedestal that people place STAR TREK: THE ORIGINAL SERIES and most of the films upon is just ridiculous. Gene Roddenberry was a make-it-up-as-you-go "visionary" who annoyed every actor, director, producer, writer and set designer that he worked with. His vision changed more than Obama's...and was nearly as ineffective. The saving grace of STAR TREK was Nicholas Meyer. The guy single-handedly saved the entire franchise by reimagining it. However, it was because of Meyer that we have WRATH OF KHAN, VOYAGE HOME and UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. And, of course, Roddenberry was extremely angry about it.
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May 1, 2012, 11:42 p.m. CST
*yawn* Calling someone a HACK on the internet is like calling someone a Nazi...
by spire_walk
Really. Just call him a Banana Milkshake or something, it would have more weight to it. Every director is on someone's shit list and gets called a hack. Fucking meaningless...
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no matter how affronted they are.
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This is just timidly rolling downhill to the well-traveled road where the money is. Roddenberry had creative ambition and inventive imagination. This doesn't.
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'But now with the reboot, Spock isn't going to die because of the Genesis device. So Kirk & Co. are not going to steal the Enterprise to retrieve his body from the Genesis planet. Which means they will not end up on Vulcan at the same time the probe arrives on Earth, and they won't be available to solve the mystery and go back in time for the whales.' That's not true at all. Old Spock can simply tell everyone, 'By the way, you'll need to get a whale from somewhere to save the Earth in 15 years' time." Then somebody can get a whale. Simple as that. (Albeit presumably requiring time travel. Or genetic engineering.) Of course, this does highlight the fact that Star Trek has, on different occasions, used fundamentally incompatible models of time travel. ST4 is essentially a single time line model story. City at the Edge of Forever uses a rewriting time line model (as does First Contact). And Abrams Trek uses a branching time line model (actually, it COULD be a rewrite but this doesn't appear to be the spirit of the piece: I think Abrams wants us to believe the first timeline is still intact in another dimension). Really, a narrative universe should use only one of three. No one model is compatible with the others. You might be able to make an argument that different kinds of technology generate different kinds of journeys. The red matter from Abrams Trek facilitated a BTL journey that created a new dimension. But the slingshot around the sun launches you on an STL journey, where you do not create a new universe and can return to your point of origin, and where, incidentally, you do not change history at all, because you were always there in 1987 (or whenever it was) but hadn't known this previously. This is the only rational way to interpret The Voyage Home: there was never a version of 1987 in which mysterious strangers from the future did not arrive in San Francisco to collect a whale.
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...was to use speculative technoscience and theoretical physics to deliver stories on how West Coast progressives would solve problems in the 24th Century. He didn't quite have that power in TOS, so it was more about space cowboys having a saloon fight every episode. Episode after episode of TNG was to pit hyper-liberal dogma against a strawman metaphor for modern, sinful vices (money, conflict by war, etc...) He removed monetary incentive from the human race, but never really could explain what it was that got people out of bed every morning. Hey, I can dig that we might move on from currency and into some post-scarcity world, just if you're going to say that your leftist pseudo religion ushered in the new era, explain to me how. TNG was full of archetypes and one dimensional characters.
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...one thing that MUST be true is that if earth is saved in this new timeline with some whales from Earth's past, they cannot be George and Gracie. Or... Hmmm. Having had a think about this, I don't think it's logically coherent to mix STL and BTL models. An STL structure only holds together due to a very specific loop, that requires the future to be Y so that the past can be X (and vice versa). But with the BTL model of Abrams Trek, the future has been changed to Y', which no longer supports X. What would happen if New Kirk and New Spock attempted to travel back to 1987 San Francisco from the New Timeline? That timeline only split just before Kirk's birth, so in principle Old Kirk and Old Spock will be in the 1987 of their past. But that feels weird and wrong.
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That's a pretty cool idea.
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This entire franchise is now alternate universe. Which is actually pretty ingenious. Straight prequel stories would have had no tension and the franchise would have had no longevity. I have one principal fear for the New Trek: I fear that the audience is going to continue to want comedic movies, and that this will mean that it will never explore weighty issues and ideas, and that there will not be any serious drama. It's easy to move a franchise from the dramatic to the comedic, but it is MUCH harder to move it back again if your first forays were all comedic. From Star Trek TMP it took only three more films to get to the broad comedy of The Voyage Home. But if The Voyage Home had been the first Trek movie, there would never, ever have been a TMP. And probably not a Wrath of Khan either.
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Nero could have saved the facsimile Romulus in the new timeline. But this is a copy of the old (eighty years prior). He cannot save the old. And he cannot save his wife. If your wife dies in an STL universe, you might be able to go back in time and meet an identical copy of her. But is that actually HER? From a functionalist perspective, it may as well be, although of course she will have only a subset of the memories of your wife who died. Nero would never again have the companionship of his wife. Even the Wife Prime probably won't be born within Nero's remaining lifetime. And she may never be born at all due to butterfly effects. If someone blew your wife's brains out in front of you, but then presented you with a molecule-perfect copy of her snapshotted from a year previously, would your anger be assuaged?
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'If your wife dies in a BTL universe, you might be able to go back in time and meet an identical copy of her. ' i.e. a branching time line. This is where an act of time travel creates a new copy of your current universe, snapshhotted from your time travel target point, and you step into it at the moment of its creation. In a BTL universe the universe you left is unaffected by your time travel; you cannot alter anything within it by travelling through time, as you are now encapsulated from it.
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May 2, 2012, 1:25 a.m. CST
im kind of with you kevred. i still have a glimmer of hope though.
by dahveed1972
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"is currently shooting on location".
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Really am. Loved Star Trek (2009) way more than I thought I would, the reboot worked and yet stayed within the 'logic' of the TNG universe. Loved it. But this, this is a rehash. It's ANOTHER Star Trek 2, and it features Khan again. Gutted, Montalban is and should always be the only Khan. So much for 'Strange NEW worlds'. Setting themselves up to fail here spectacularly...
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The changes Nero made affected the Federation and Vulcan, (ships/planets destroyed, people killed before their time). I don't see how this would effect things on Romulus. Politically, yes, there would be acknowledgement of the actions, but I think Ma and Pa Romulan would go on making babies like they always have. My point is that only the people who were directly effected by Nero's actions (Kirk, Spock, all of Vulcan, etc) have a skewed timeline. The farther you are away from those events the more likely your timeline would not be affected. Ex. I go back in time and prevent you from meeting your wife. Your time line is drastically altered but since I didn't go visit my younger self when I go back to the future my time line should have not been changed. But the bottom line here is that by warning Romulus he would be saving his people from total fucking destruction. Even if they are different versions of what he knew in the future his society would go on. That's more important than just missing your wife.
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Wanted Killer Croc.
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May 2, 2012, 9:42 a.m. CST
Talbackers have to face the FACTS: NuTrek is not targeting the 40-60 year old fatasses that were fans of the original...
by TheKiller7
Nope
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May 2, 2012, 9:43 a.m. CST
...Instead, it's targeting Millenials, those who don't even know who Khan was or who played him originally. JJ is betting on the future, not in the past
by TheKiller7
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May 2, 2012, 9:45 a.m. CST
So all you old farts that grew up with Shatner or Nemoy, need to move to the side of the road and DIE!
by TheKiller7
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May 2, 2012, 9:46 a.m. CST
Because NuTrek is only for people who don't have leathery corinthian skin and who were alive when Cher was considered "hot" and doable.
by TheKiller7
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May 2, 2012, 9:48 a.m. CST
This advice also applies to OT Star Wars fans who believe Star Wars is for manchildren like themselves and not for KIDS!
by TheKiller7
Because it is for kids.
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May 2, 2012, 9:53 a.m. CST
Sorry ,but someone had to tell all you dusty old bones to face reality. You better worry more about voting in November than dealing with KID STUFF. Grow up ppl!
by TheKiller7
Grow the fuck up.
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Read up on butterfly effects. You can't have the kind of isolated changes you describe in a real complex system, although time travel story authors often get this completely wrong. If I were to go back 500 years and kill some random peasant in France, then 500 years later in a BTL or RTL universe, there would not be a single person alive corresponding to the original timeline.
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This fad too shall pass. Hell I thought properties like Batman were dead after Shummacher and Akiva Goldsman's fruity parade.. then along came Nolan and the tone changed. <P> Once Abram's Orci and Kurtzman finish raping the fuck out of this property, someone will eventually come along and make a serious re-invention of it.
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Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. I saw it on the news before I left this morning. I suspect that they could be filming new "engineering" scenes.
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So true! Roddenberry had to live with the hypocrisy of wanting to depict a hippie, cashless, pacifist future society. However, he desperately tried to make $$$ doing it...and inadvertently demonstrated why such a utopia is nothing more than a idealistic dream. Pacifism can never work in a world (or universe) filled with individuals who are drunk with power. Whether they are Communists, Nazis or Klingons, there will always be someone ready to conquer our idealistic utopia.
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and not latex. They need to move like an alien race, faster and stronger than the average red shirt crewman. But I suppose know one trusts 'Barlowe's Guild To Extraterrestrials' anymore.
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All that you guys are saying is good and interesting. However, STAR TREK (2009) was not about "time travel." It was about going to an "alternate timeline" that takes place in an entirely different dimension. STAR TREK IV: THE VOYAGE HOME, STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT, YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE (and others) were about "time travel." They took place entirely inside of the familiar STAR TREK dimension. However, STAR TREK: GENERATIONS and STAR TREK (2009) were multiple dimensions. In GENERATIONS, the Nexus is a multi-dimensional place. Kirk, Picard and Soran had ventured into the Nexus and assumed that they had arrived in a place void of time. However, there were subtle hints that this was a timeless "bridge" across dimensions. I always thought that it would could a great plot element for Kirk to be "freed" from death. In STAR TREK (2009), Nero and Spock went through a hole created in space-time and arrived in an alternate universe (of the multiverse) altogether. The "Butterfly Effect" would not have a direct influence between the two universes...although a single, simple change in one universe will have profound effect on that particular timeline. I think that this is reflected in the look of the ENTERPRISE and how technology was quite advanced after the U.S.S. Kelvin's encounter with Nero (and a few quick scans of the ship). I am looking forward to seeing how this film shapes the direction of this universe of TREK!
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May 2, 2012, 12:26 p.m. CST
teabaggerharry: *it's targeting Millenials*...Yeah, so did SCOTT PILGRIM, LMFAOWWMDIYF...
by BurnHollywood
That's Laughing My Fucking Ass Off While Wagging My Dick In Your Face, BTW.
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It's a good cast and there are talented people involved. We're almost certain to get a decent space opera. But I can't help but hold Trek to a different standard. Not in the sense of Trekkie canon stuff, just in the sense of respecting the whole point of the thing, the whole guiding force that underpinned Roddenberry's creation in the first place. Philosophical morality tales, in the end, not just personal action stories. The first Trek reboot film was fun in a way, but it was really just a standard sci-fi film dressed up as Trek. Doing something entirely new with this coming film would have told me that the makers are really wanting to expand on the original vision, to extend this as part of the cumulative Trek story. Going for the most obvious possible nemesis who's already been covered in multiple shows and a classic film puts this in the "imitation of the real thing" category in my mind.
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...in any universe. This had to be done.
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Agreed, zinc_chameleon.
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May 4, 2012, 12:01 p.m. CST
@boborci: "feels like just before the first movie all over again"
by Kremzeek
I completely understand what you're saying. All us crazy naysaying fans have to go ballistic before we even see the film. It's ludicrous. I get it. However, there is a BIG difference this time around. And here it is: Our naysaying aside (and, for the record, I was *not* one of them for ST09 - bought the prequel comics and all that. It was great!), you won over a lot of us anyway. Why? Because we saw such huge potential on where this could go! And then... instead you rehash one of the most beloved stories in all of Trekdom? WHY? WHY? WHY? You had the whole fucking galaxy to choose from... and instead you go with a story that's already been told better than anyone will ever tell it?! And, I don't care if you're not actually "re-telling" the Khan story beat for beat. I don't care if Khan is merely a secondary character. It doesn't matter. You should not have gone back and re-done Khan. It's uninspired and is a HUGE let down after ST09's grand entrance into this new Trek franchise. Be ORIGINAL like ST09 made us hope you would be. My anger toward this move comes from admiring, respecting, and really truly enjoying ST09. And now, you're ruining it. After the TF movies and now this... my respect for this creative team has nosedived hardcore.
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