Dec. 24, 2008, 5:17 p.m. CST
Dec. 24, 2008, 5:19 p.m. CST
I'm steering clear of the P.O.S. turd Spirit.
Dec. 24, 2008, 5:30 p.m. CST
alot like ain't it cool's, in a way...not so much the logo, but the comic font used in the borders and stuff here. who are they trying to fool?
Dec. 24, 2008, 5:32 p.m. CST
imagine that, a fake site where there are no bad reviews.
Dec. 24, 2008, 5:55 p.m. CST
SOunds like the spirit raped his eyeballs
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:02 p.m. CST
Is Miller masturbating in public<br> And he got someone to pay him a lot to do it<br> And he got some fairly big names to participate and be filled while he did it<p> But make no mistake, this is miller jacking off in everyone's face<p> Man, I'd hate to be the guy who signed off on this once his bosses figure out that's what this is
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:03 p.m. CST
and be filmed*...
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:23 p.m. CST
I was on the fence. This made up my mind. <br><br> Movie goers should send you a percentage of the money they would have spent on a ticket to see THE SPIRIT.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:35 p.m. CST
Anyone else having a blast reading these Spirit reviews? Roger Ebert's was equally hilarious.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:39 p.m. CST
You hit every nail on the head with this one. Loserguy.... trust me, she was right on the money, to add another cliche. Really, for just plain wrong adaptations of a comic this bad you have to go back to the barely-released Brenda Starr or Altman's Popeye (which admittedly had some defenders). It's worth watching only for its absolute insanity.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:39 p.m. CST
...or you live long enough to see yourself become a hack. <p> Maybe the silver lining to all this is that Frank becomes disillusioned with Hollywood (again) and goes back to make unconventional comics again. Right now, it looks like this is the nail in the coffin of the limping corpse of the "grim n' gritty" style of comic book deconstruction/realism that was spawned with DKR and Watchmen. The sad thing is that Miller supposedly pioneered that style, which was then beaten like a dead horse by every two-bit hack comics writer since then, until it's now the standard pose for "mature" comics, like how "alternative" is now the catch-all term for lowest-common-denominator radio schlock rock. Miller once said that if the comic book industry was the music industry, mainstream comics would be a never ending parade of Elvis impersonators... but this sort of one note neo-noir style one which he's been coasting lately is like a Kidz Bop cover of Hannah Montana, a xerox copy of pure cellophane glitz and gimmick, without any connection to the substance and spirit of the original artform. It's sad, I still remember the guy who stood up at a comic book distributor's convention and ripped into Marvel for doing exactly what he's done to Eisner's creation by way of this movie. I guess one of those cliched hard boiled lines still has some truth: everyone has their price, and apparently Miller wasn't too different from Stan the Man after all.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:45 p.m. CST
...was the most apt summary I've yet read of Miller's work lately. Honestly, I want to defend the guy, and I still maintain that bandwagon jumpers who are going to shriek "he's always been a hack!" need to re-evaluate his early good stuff, but man, if this movie is as putrid as the review suggests, this might put a big dent in the chances of seeing any more non-superhero comics make their way to the theater any time soon.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST
Strangely apt name. As always, Alexandra DuPont's reviews are sparkling.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:53 p.m. CST
It's only saving grace it has is as camp, which is brutally ironic considering Miller's evisceration of the Adam West Batman. At least Batman was meant to be fun, but The Spirit has no feeling of humanity at all.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:53 p.m. CST
you know that is what frank was thinking when he wrote the script and directed the movie.<p> for why else would he add his own sensiblities into what every comic afficionado accepts as classic and beautiful work.
Dec. 24, 2008, 6:55 p.m. CST
by The Dum Guy
But, I decided on getting drunk and watching The Big Heat instead.<br><br>No matter how bad this is, it can't be worse the Disaster Movie (which isn't saying much of anything).
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:08 p.m. CST
I was pissed when I saw the trailers a couple months back. "Frank Miller fucked up the Spirit, oh well, fuck hollywood blah blah blah" i thought but now i want to see this horrendous piece of shit so i can solidify my hate for miller. Frank, you were amazing but now you suck cock and I hate you
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:08 p.m. CST
because Frank Miller's dialogue makes me laugh out loud every time I read it, and not in the way he intended.
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:08 p.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
It was enjoyable to read and so full of truth.
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:11 p.m. CST
by Gwai Lo
Very nicely written piece.
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:25 p.m. CST
by The Reluctant Austinite
That was hard to read, but I fully expected the result based on what I'd been hearing for months. I wonder how early on Monday morning we'll hear that his "Buck Rogers" project has been sidelined. This is a very well thought out and written review. I just wish it wasn't true, but somehow I believe every word.
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:35 p.m. CST
Damn You Michael Bay
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:40 p.m. CST
a reference to Cpl. Chuck 'Stretch' Sitarski?
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:52 p.m. CST
.. that doesnt make me believe Frank Miller did something to make Harry cry.
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:54 p.m. CST
Its nice to see more and more people commenting on the fact that Emperor Miller has no clothes. I honestly think doing the Sin City comics broke Frank Millers brain. I also now wonder how much of his early stuff he may have had "help" with(it sure as hell seems like theres a lot more of Denny O'Neil in Dark Knight and Year One than there is of Miller-at least judging by the shit hes done with Bats in recent years)
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:55 p.m. CST
...any pictures of you in a swimsuit on the web?
Dec. 24, 2008, 7:59 p.m. CST
To see Frank Miller's Spirit get shit on by nearly every living human being on the face of the planet.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8 p.m. CST
Miller is an adolescent boy trapped in a man's body. When we were adolescents/teens, his worked naturally connected with us. Now we're grown up, and Miller's still an adolescent, it no longer connects.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:01 p.m. CST
"If Eisner thought I built a dusty monument to what he did, he’d come back from the grave and throttle me. I owe him. I don’t owe the fans a goddamn thing."
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:08 p.m. CST
He doesn't owe fans anything, really. I don't understand why people hate the All Star Batman comics. They literally CAN NOT be taken straight faced. It's impossible.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:13 p.m. CST
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:14 p.m. CST
by Shut the Fuck up Donny
did the beneficiary of "the 11th largest trust fund" escape safe and sound from the Madoff scandal?
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:14 p.m. CST
That's OK. He's entitled to say whatever he wants. The fans are equally entitled to not give him any money.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:15 p.m. CST
...if zombie Eisner DOESN'T rise from his grave and wring Miller's neck, he'll take it as a blessing and shit on "the fans" (fans of WHAT, exactly?) for being overly negative whiners? Seems like Miller is in the early stages of Lucasitis. Can we "fans" pool our resources to get Tom Savini to do some make-up work on an old bald guy with Harry Carey glasses and then have that guy pay a visit to Miller's studio late one evening?
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:17 p.m. CST
by Shut the Fuck up Donny
but it seems silly to comment on a film that's been universally panned already. <p> On the other hand, Ms. Dupont should commente on a film that actually has a bit of discourse going on, i.e. Benjamin Button...
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:20 p.m. CST
You're right in that no filmmaker "owes" any fan. But to have open contempt for your audience is literally shooting yourself in the foot. Ebonic_plague is right, this IS early Lucasitis. I don't understand filmmakers who release films and then say "I made this film for myself, not the fans." You know what then, asshole? Keep it to yourself and watch it in your own home. Don't release it. Don't pimp merchandise related to it. Don't expect to get my money for a ticket.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:28 p.m. CST
I know I'm going to get crucified for this but: <P> I can't say I have ever really been a Miller fan... sure he reworked batman... and he told Wolverine's backstory... but I find he has far more misses than hits. Further, his writing is way too uber masculine (which I interpret as not really being able to write because he has no depth and just uses the same bag of tricks over and over). <P> OK... begin the talkback codymr bashing in... 3... 2... 1... go.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:48 p.m. CST
He owes the fans of The Spirit better than this. I'm not a huge Eisner fan myself - to me The Spirit was more than a little corny - but this was a travesty of everything Eisner was about.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:51 p.m. CST
by Rocco Curioso
It has four modes:<P>Engage 1999 Mode, and she writes a piquant, insightful review of The Phantom Menace. "Oooooo, look!... a GIRL who can write." Hoping against hope that she's a fabulous babe as well, one million AICN fanboy boners spring into action.<P>Engage 2001 Mode, and she writes a sombre review of A.I., and obliquely outs herself in the process. A half-million AICN fanboyners wilt in dismay. The other half-million remain as sturdy as lightsabres. Their owners believe that, like the OT hero Luke "The Freshest Boy" Skywalker, they can rescue someone important to them from the Dark Side.<P>Engage 2005 Mode, and she writes several comparatively tedious reviews, claims to be retiring from AICN, but never quite does. Much indifferent hilarity ensues.<P>Engage 2008 Mode, and... well, the jury's still out on that one.<P>That's all I got for now. There's work to be done this evening (glances at wall clock; checks the loads in the Buzz Maverik Limited Edition Purdy shotgun). I'm just waiting for that bitchass MF Santa to squeeze his big tookus down the chimney.<P>Last year, he failed to bring me the Hello Kitty Beer Dispensing Hard-Hat I asked for.<P>This year, he's gettin' both barrels. I shit you not.
Dec. 24, 2008, 8:54 p.m. CST
if you dont, than you aint no comics nut
Dec. 24, 2008, 9 p.m. CST
at AICN, at least
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:04 p.m. CST
Didn't she resign (loudly, publicly and repeatedly) a while back? In the words of Destroyo: "CONFOUND YOU, YOU IRRITATING WOMAN! DOES YOUR PRATTLING NEVER CEASE?!?!" What's the matter, Princess; your Starbucks co-workers have tuned you out and you have to inflict yourself upon us?
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:05 p.m. CST
What a shocker. Newsvalue? Still wanna see this. Post more negative reviews please. Makes me want to see it more.
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:08 p.m. CST
The richest man in town!!!
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:08 p.m. CST
Should be kept locked far away, along with his callsheet.
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:12 p.m. CST
I do wish he'd made 'Frank Miller's Christmas Special' instead. That's a story I'd like to see him re-imagine.
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:19 p.m. CST
You want to see the de-evolution of discourse on a website, check out those old talkbacks for Ms. DuPont's reviews. Then check out a Scriptgirl talkback. The only metaphor I can think of is comparing a civil war letter to a 14 year old's text message inbox.
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:19 p.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
...has a movie so completely fucked up the source material! Way to go Big Frank!
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:23 p.m. CST
..."Besides, The Spirit character is still boring and dated." I've been reading through a lot of Eisner's old stuff, and if "boring" is the first adjective that sprung to your mind when reading the Spirit, then I've got a longbox of Cyberforce you might enjoy...
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:30 p.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
Oh that's total bullshit. Do you have any idea who you are talking about when you say "most of the populace"? Perhaps you meant to say that more comic book nerds in their teens and early twenties know Moore's work more than Eisners. Otherwise, your statement is just stupid.
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:35 p.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
You could own (and have read) 100,000 comics, but if they all are Marvel comics, then you would still know dick about comics. Think before you post, man. Maybe, just maybe, you are not the comics "every man" that you think you are. Other than that, have a nice Christmas.
Dec. 24, 2008, 9:38 p.m. CST
The most prestigious awards in the comics industry are called the Eisners. Most of the populace still thinks that Stan Lee created, wrote and drew every comic book since Superman. To most of the populace, comics themselves are esoteric and niche. The point? Fuck what the populace thinks.
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:09 p.m. CST
this aint about "gaps in knowledge" this is about understanding the history of the medium that you alledge to hold so dear....there is no moore without eisner...in fact, without eisner, there arent even half of the comics that you read as a kid...go take a look at the people that got their start in the eisner/igor studio...its one thing to be ignorant during the 80s, when one had to subscribe to one of the fan mags to learn history...but not today...today you have the net, where history is a mouse click away...you are right, the spirit is no where as well known as batman and superman...mostly because he is an everyman hero...not alien, no superpowers, no millionaire parents killed...just some everyday, run of the mill joe, that both kids and adults could relate to and use to fantasize though...oh, and miller may not owe the fans anything...but he owed it to his mentor to put something special on the big screen...and he failed....merry christmas
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:17 p.m. CST
it wont...but it should <P> the original movie was released after the series of pulps had been reprinted, as well as a couple of books written about the character...the books sold well, so they thought there was a core audience <P> and then they did it...they didnt respect the source material...totally sad....for their is no question that savage was the model for superman, and his group of adventurers were the model for both challengers of the unkown and the fantastic four
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:18 p.m. CST
... come whenever he starts believing his own P.R.... Ronin, anyone?
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:22 p.m. CST
...for the tides of a*holes in Jondough's old thread to pour in here and apologize deeply for laying it on him so thick about his review despite the poor guy just trying to warn people.
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST
Check out the newish Darwyn Cooke series. Good,good stuff. I appreciate what Eisner did,but I have to agree with some of those who find it dated. Cooke takes everything that was good about The Spirit and makes it work.
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:40 p.m. CST
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST
Dec. 24, 2008, 10:48 p.m. CST
"And if it's so cool, where the fuck is "Ebony White", the completely racist sidekick The Spirit had in the comics?" Nail on the head. It's why I have never had any love for old noir movies, The Thin Man, or virtually any old movie with stereotypical black depictions in them. I cut these guys some slack for times they lived in but action & detective movies started getting good to me right about the time Shaft started kicking ass.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11 p.m. CST
tinyurl it<p> There's a link to tinyurl right below the box you type in
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:01 p.m. CST
I hope that in the future, that that shit brat you call a child will grow up and have children. And in that future, your grandchildren end up being a "comic nut" like you. You feel proud, and even more proud that they are going to re-release Watchmen in Holographic Format and reissue an actual printed release of the Watchmen comic. So you show your kids the Watchmen comic book, you take them to see the movie and you tell them what it was all about. And guess what? Your grandchildren will hate it. They will not understand it. To them, Watchmen is not modern enough to be translated into holographics. Other great writers have taken and written way better material by the time they were born. They find it sexist against women, do not understand the slang and dress, and are confused as why there are towers in the NYC skyline. And who the fuck was Ronald Regan? The art is crappy; not hip in their time, the writing is too wordy and just everything is "old, crusty, ancient out of date" and thus "it sucks" to your grandchildren. And you have to put up with this in horror, that your offspring in the future do not understand the Watchmen. That like you back then, here and now in 2008, you hated The Spirit for the same reasons these kids hate Watchmen: Because they (and you) did not understand that during their respective time periods how revolutionary they where. In short, fuck you and I hope your kid dies in a car fire. At least then your stupidity will not pass on to future generations of humans.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:05 p.m. CST
It had some nice boobs in it!
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:26 p.m. CST
Sounds like the time is now.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:29 p.m. CST
Count me in as wanting to see Doc Savage as a movie.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:38 p.m. CST
is like claiming to be a movie nut and having never heard of Hitchcock or John Ford. I agree, Eisner can be very corny and sentimental. but he and Kirby pretty much created the visual language of comics as we know it today. Compare a Spirit story with any Batman by "Bob Kane" and you'll see what I mean. As for Alan Moore being more famous, 1) Chances are a member of the general public could not name a single comic book creator, and if they did it would be Stan Lee. Alan Moore would come maybe a distant second, and by then you would be getting into people who know more about comics, and they would probably name EIsner, too. 2) In any case, saying that Moore is more well-known than Eisner is like saying that Herbie Hancock is more well-known than Duke Ellington. In other words, utterly meaningless.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:39 p.m. CST
I've never read the Doc Savage novels, but I picked up some of the Spider earlier this year, and was blown away. The pulps were wild.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:39 p.m. CST
Sterilize the philistines! Deck the halls! Non-believers roasting on an open fire! <p> Or... not. KurtLockwood, unlike Sidepocket, and breaking with the long tradition of talkback debate etiquette, I don't wish genocide on your entire family tree, but I will say that you're still wrong about Eisner's work on the Spirit. From a purely visual storytelling perspective at the very least, even more than half a century later, his work on the Spirit is still unparalleled. Frank Miller himself rode his coattails occasionally by swiping techniques that Eisner had perfected decades earlier. And I pity people who won't allow themselves to enjoy art from previous eras because it's not PC. You guys boycott old Tom & Jerry and Speedy Gonzalez cartoons too? Cause you and your kids are missing out on some good shit. <p> Goddamnit, a commercial for the Spirit just came on TV and I lost my train of thought. Man this one looks like a real stinker. It almost seems... nostalgic. Merry Christmas!
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:42 p.m. CST
Have you heard of this one? I read about it in a book about pulps, and it sounds like the most amazing story I've ever heard. A European empire invading North America (this was before WWII, btw)? This would be nuts.
Dec. 24, 2008, 11:52 p.m. CST
I can't remember who wrote this is in a talkback, but the problem with all these remakes is that people seem to think that the movies represent the originals. The Saint was an utter badass who took no prisoners. The Shadow was incredibly dark. The Phantom was huge at one point (and still is in some parts of the world). And yet people only know them from crappy movies. The key is not to update them with flash but to DO THEM RIGHT, like they did with Casino Royale.
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:01 a.m. CST
You put it much eloquently than I could. I get so frustrated sometimes that the oddest shit flies out of me. Thank you. :3
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:21 a.m. CST
by Rocco Curioso
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it you who posted that holiday season magnum opus "The 12 Days Of AICN Christmas" on this here website about six years ago?<P>I believe a link to or a reprint of that bit o'brilliance would do much to pacify all the philistines, jihadists, and agnostics who have seen fit to choose the hemlock eggnog as this evening's beverage of choice.<P>Any assistance you may care to impart, thanks in advance, fuck Kwanzaa it ain't the real Xmas anyway, etc., etc.
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:27 a.m. CST
I remember David Fincher said when Alien 3 was released that he didn't make it for the audience or fans, he made a movie that he and his friends could enjoy watching. At the time I thought "Fuck him! What an arrogant asshole!", and then, well, he made a few good films after that so I sort of put it aside. Miller could come back from this, but it sounds like he's insulated himself from reality. When the box office doesn't come in on Monday, he'll pat himself on the back and tell himself that nobody gets the movie. By the way, I knew this would be shit from anything I saw after the original teaser trailer was released, it looked painfully awful.
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:11 a.m. CST
I checked out the provided link. And unlike you say, he actually has a lot more than just 5 reviews, in order to see this, you have to hit that button at the bottom of the page, that takes you to the NEXT page...but I'm sure you know how websites work.
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:28 a.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
No disrespect for your kids, etc. But can you see the point being made? If all you know are superhero comics (guys with capes punching each other) then you are a "superhero nut"...not a comics nut. It's like only reading sword & sorcery novels but then criticizing Dickens because you think the writer of CONAN is more popular. But I get your point...The Spirit isn't your era and you have no interest in the history of comics, especially if they aren't superheroes. No harm in that.
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:34 a.m. CST
Kudos again lady,you outclass everyone around you. Even and especially yours truly
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:39 a.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
I've read pretty much all of them, and they are amazing. It's like all the best stuff of INDIANA JONES crossed with all the best stuff of JAMES BOND. But they were all written (mostly) in the 1930s! If you read them from the beginning, Doc's character slowly evolves from a guy who is kind of emotionally-reigned-in like Mr. Spock (all of which is intentional because of how Doc was raised as a kid), into a more human person (mainly because the guy who wrote the bulk of the novels grew a bit tired with the formula) and the stories really get incredible. In most of the stories, all of this weird shit happens and eventually Doc ends up proving that there was, in reality, some kind of SCIENCE behind it all (misapplied science). There is a lot of incredible action (more so after the first novel, THE MAN OF BRONZE, that sets it all up). I may have to start re-rereading them now...
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:47 a.m. CST
by Bob Cryptonight
Dec. 25, 2008, 2:29 a.m. CST
Maybe this movie is from some parallel dimension, sort of like a Bizarro movie adaptaion.
Dec. 25, 2008, 2:48 a.m. CST
Dec. 25, 2008, 3:23 a.m. CST
...Stephen King, that is. Remember MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE? How about his "repaired" version of THE SHINING?<p> A truly gifted artist can function in, at tops, a couple of different forms of media (Neil Gaiman managed to succeed in two), but one is usually the rule. Don't quit your day job, Frank...and next time, make sure you split the check with Mr. Rodriguez.
Dec. 25, 2008, 3:30 a.m. CST
I'm not even a big comic book collector, more movies for me but even i know who Eisner is<P>ignoring a classic like THE SPIRIT is like ignoring Hitchcock, Wise, Ford, Hawks, etc...not watching RIO BRAVO, THE TREASURE OF THE SERRIA MADRE, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, THE 39 STEPS, THE 400 BLOWS. I'm a Kevin Smith fan, but comments like yours remind me of something he said in SPIKE MIKE SLACKERS AND DYKES, and I'm paraphrasing here, "why should I watch those films when directors I watch already have"
Dec. 25, 2008, 3:58 a.m. CST
Here, I got my seat back at Lionsgate
Dec. 25, 2008, 5:38 a.m. CST
Then I guess you don't watch a lot of movies? Phantom Menace was terribly disappointing, no doubt about that, but an absolutely terrible film? Have you seen Ishtar? Plan 9 From Outer Space? Sheesh...
Dec. 25, 2008, 6:18 a.m. CST
SINCE The Phantom Menace means movies she seen since TPM was released, both of those movies were released (and probably seen) BEFORE TPM<P>I sweat monkeys come on the talkbacks sometimes
Dec. 25, 2008, 6:19 a.m. CST
I SWEAR monkeys come on the TalkBacks sometimes<P>sweating monkeys is just weird
Dec. 25, 2008, 7 a.m. CST
by Star Hump
Why? I get quarterly reviews, if that. Yeah, I know about the DuPont history with AICN, but I'm going to be an 8 year old about this. I want my DuPont, damnit. Bi-weekly. On AICN. I've been a fan of Miller since DD #174 - 1982 or something - the Elektra arc as it was being published. And AD is dead-on in this review. I was impressed with the breadth of the criticism. As for Miller, it's almost sad, but I ain't that much of a fanboy. Pride always takes the fall, Frank. Have a bite of the Spirit-shit sandwich. You deserve a big gooey bite. And you're gonna get it. Karma sucks, because if you think about it, Miller treated Batman the same way he treated The Spirit. His bank account soars, and timeless characters suffer, again and again, under his hand. Miller's victories are of his youth, and he's an old man now. Maybe there's a spot for him in the Minor Leagues. Maybe he could relaunch Shadowhawk for Image Comics. Eat shit Frank. For fucking up Eisner, you fucking mook.
Dec. 25, 2008, 7:28 a.m. CST
That is what she means. Not only is it a horrible film, but to Einser fans this is the biggest disappointment...since Phantom Menace. (Or for me, Terminator 3. I have not seen Crystal Skull yet but I assume it would be the same for today's people too.)
Dec. 25, 2008, 7:42 a.m. CST
Dec. 25, 2008, 7:59 a.m. CST
Bad art that is. Creatively dead.
Dec. 25, 2008, 8:47 a.m. CST
not 10. 300 was shit, too. Are there still people who wonder if he hasn't lost his mind to drugs and rampant narcissism? This movie's just going to show the world at large how shallow, moronic, and feteshistic Miller is. I say 'is', not 'becoming,' because the dude's been THIS way for nearly 20 years.<p>Merry Christmas!
Dec. 25, 2008, 9:28 a.m. CST
by El Borak
"Damn, people are so out to get this movie! I was originally going to post the review this afternoon but due to an extreme amount of interest, I've posted it a bit early."<br> <br>"I loved "The Dark Knight" just like everyone else, but this is not the same thing. "The Spirit" has 100% more playfulness and humor than the aforementioned film and doesn't take it self as seriously."<br> <br>"It's over the top, off and the wall and brilliant. Most people will just not understand it."<BR> <BR>"Full of jaw dropping moments, including Sam Jackson in a nazi uniform- "The Spirit" never loses its footing."<BR> <BR>"Macht with a growl in his voice to rival Christian Bale's- steals the show here showcasing an awesome screen presence to take on his leading ladies and even a crazed Jackson. Expect big things."<BR> <BR>"The Spirit" is one of the best films of the year. It's not another "The Dark Knight", it's not trying to be. Go in expecting a fun, uncommonly stimulating action movie full of, you guessed it, spirit- and in turn it will blow you away."
Dec. 25, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST
Sounds really cool, like Johnny Quest or the Venture Bros. decades before the fact. Wasn't Buckaroo Banzai also an attempt at a Doc Savage type character? BTW - have you read the Spider? I'm serious, it is wild stuff, probably could never be made into a movie though.
Dec. 25, 2008, 10:01 a.m. CST
did you actually play the "lookit me, someone executed poor enough judgement to fuck me, and still further carry my seed to term, ergo my opinions are superior" card? you don't know dick or piss about The Spirit, like every other tastist comics fan you refuse to explore anything that's unappealing to you. if you had, maybe you would have noticed how enormous an influence the spirit was on comics produced 30, 40 years later, and how those comics in turn influenced contemporary filmmaking. But it's not "relevant" because it's four color. You and Shane Black go on hating people who read. That and a quarter? cup of coffee, all for you.
Dec. 25, 2008, 10:04 a.m. CST
And I'm cautiously optimistic. The fact that Uslan is involved gives me pause. Yeah, he did the Batman movies, but he also did Constatine, Catwoman, and oh, yeah, The Spirit. (Yes, I know producers have very little creative control, but they can be the difference between getting, say, Chris Nolan or Frank Miller to direct.
Dec. 25, 2008, 10:59 a.m. CST
YOu claim at first that you'd "never heard" of The Spirit, then you prattle on about racist it was. Yeah, Ebony White was pretty bad. But your "I Don't like The SPirit because it was racist" is a day late and a dollar short.
Dec. 25, 2008, 11:23 a.m. CST
There was a Doc Savage comic series.<br> I forget who was behind it, sorry.<p> It was very good, and it brought Doc into the current time period.<br> His original crew were all very old, late 60's to early 80's.<br> He had an adult grandson that reluctantly became a part of the team.<p> It was very well done. Good stories and art, but only lasted a year or two.<p> If they do a movie, I'd like it if they used the same formula.<br> Kinda burned out on period pieces where citys, autos, airships and planes have to be cgi'ed in
Dec. 25, 2008, 11:38 a.m. CST
My point is at first you said "I'm a comics nut, and I've never heard of the Spirit." Then, when TBers pointed out that this was rather unlikely, you fell back on "The Spirit was racist, anyway." I've heard people defend Eisner's use of Ebony White, which I find both disingenuous and wrong. I find it troubling that while Eisner later dealt with prejudice in his stories, he never (to my knowledge) apologized for Ebony. But what's indisputable is that if there was no Eisner, comics as we know them would be lesser than they are. It's a little like saying "I'm a fan of American literature, but I've never read Mark Twain because he was racist." Actually, it's a lot like saying that.
Dec. 25, 2008, 11:39 a.m. CST
and showe how it's done.
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:04 p.m. CST
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:11 p.m. CST
First of all, Twain called his character by the most deplorable name for black people in the English language. Second of all, Jim was despite this and his pidgin English one of the more sympathetic characters in the book - as Ebony White is in The SPirit. Third of all, my point was that you dismissed the Spirit before you read it, and THEN used the racism angle to back it up. It's incredibly disengenuous. I stand by my point that the graphic quality of Eisner's work influenced a whole lot of stuff you probably do like, and to point out one character's racist depiction (retroactively; you made no mention of him in your initial post) is disengenuous. Your initial point was that The Spirit was dated and tired, and when forced to produce evidence THEN you jumped on the racism question. All of a sudden you were an expert on Ebony White. And if you can Wiki with the best of them, you'd know that it was Mussolini (who was a jerk, but not particularly racist) who kept the trains running on time.
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:14 p.m. CST
what's with all the homophobic cracks and references to "retards?"
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:26 p.m. CST
...talk about nostalgia. Yeah, the 12 days of talkback Christmas, that was me, I'm flattered you remembered... but I think that little ditty must have been sent to the phantom zone back when I got banned, because I can't seem to find it in the wayback machine. I just remember the first verse... "On the first day of Christmas, the talkback gave to me, a bomb in a rib-cage!" Ah, man... misty water colored memories. If you or anyone can dig that one up, feel free to post it... I'd conjure up a remastered new one for us today but there is turkey to be stuffed and my grasp of talkback catchphrase history is a little rusty. <p> In closing, may AICN cheet on you with a beer, and to you your dead raped deer, and God bless you and send you a Happy New Year!
Dec. 25, 2008, 12:35 p.m. CST
You learn to use spelling and grammar. Man your kid is going to be robbed of communication skills if this is what papa sounds like. No wonder why back then people though comic's ruined young minds with people like you. XD
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:18 p.m. CST
...it was checkmate as soon as you retreated to the race card while defending the retard card. I understand the need to tear out the virtual throats of your enemies with your e-teeth, but in all honesty, one should not reference one's family in talkback unless one is prepared to read detailed necrophilic threats against them... especially around the holidays, man. You want a realistic assessment of racial tension and strife from Eisner, go read Dropsie Ave, it's a damn good read and the work of a master at the absolute top of his craft. You're a fellow comic geek and a talkbacker so I won't harp on this anymore, but I think you should give Eisner's golden age work a second chance, it really is that good. But to bring it full circle, this movie looks to suck in an inverse proportion to how good the original Spirit comics were. Way to go Frank. Sorry to interrupt this blossoming intergenerational blood feud, hope you guys all got green lasers in your stockings to assist in fucking each other's eyeballs, murr ccccchhhhrrrismas!
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:29 p.m. CST
I am not an internet tough guy. I'm an internet asshole, duh! What makes me different from you (besides intelligence, good looks, ect) is that I did not post my E-Mail so I could describe how I would physically kill you IRL. That is an internet tough guy to a T. Apparently you have no concept of meaning on the words that escape your face. Anyhow, we are also standing by the fact that Watchmen is old, crusty, boring and as I later pointed out, SEXIST! It's just starting now and you wait long enough, it will be 100%. So your point, besides amusing the fuck out of me with your outlandish lulz worthy comments? XD
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:32 p.m. CST
to Pixar Doc!
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:36 p.m. CST
What happened was that you 1) were caught not knowing much about a seminal comic and 2) wikied it to find about it, and 3) jumped on the racism as a PC way you could be up in arms about this comic. i am 95% sure you had no idea who Ebony White was when you made your first post. As for what one TBer said about your kids, before SIdepocket even wrote that you had written ". "And if you challenge my geek cred again I will have to forcefuck your throat like Ash did to Ripley near the end of Alien with my ancient issues of Bantha Fodder, how's that for "fan boy," Mr.Pink?" So you raised the level of insult before anyone else did. AS for homophobic, phrases like "getting your panties in a bunch" and calling people pussies left and right speak for themselves. YOu may be a father, but a grownup? Not so much.
Dec. 25, 2008, 1:52 p.m. CST
If this whacked out maniac really does have a one year old,someone needs to trace his IP address and call social services. Maybe his kid will wind up in a decent foster home(one with REAL geek parents). Remember Col. Kurtsy-suicides are highest this time of year so why dont you do us all a favor and take the easy way out? If you really want to make a point,shoot yourself during a screening of The Spirit at your local multiplex...I GURANTEE that'll make the news!
Dec. 25, 2008, 3:02 p.m. CST
And several people pointed out that if you were such a big comic nut, you should have, period. If you've read any interviews with Moore or Miller, you'd know that he was a big influence. Like I said, not hearing of the Spirit is like claiming to be a movie nut and never having heard of Hitchcock. It really ruins your credibility. You also seem to think that because of a single character being a racist stereotype gives you the justification to dismiss everything about it. That's like dismissing Miles Davis' work because he was a misogynistic bastard. You could do it, but you'd look pretty foolish. The whole comic isn't racist just because of one character. The SPirit didn't fight caricatured black guys (okay, he does in the movie, but that's beside the point). Let's fast forward 50 years into the future. Someone decides to (shudder) remake Star Wars - just bear with me, okay? A self-proclaimed "movie nut" says he's never heard of Star Wars - yeah, it's unlikely, because Star Wars is much more ubiquitous than The SPirit, but BEAR WITH ME. If said movie nut said "Star Wars sucks because Jar Jar Binks was racist", they'd look pretty silly, as silly as dismissing Warner Brothers Cartoons because of "Bugs Bunny Nips The Nips" or, yes, dismissing Huckleberry Finn because of N***er Jim. And frankly, saying "I don't really care about what you think in this regard enough to respond" is pretty cowardly. And you continue to use the word "pussy", which is both sexist and homphobic.
Dec. 25, 2008, 3:15 p.m. CST
Can we throw in one more person in that carfire?
Dec. 25, 2008, 3:53 p.m. CST
I do consider myself a movie nut, and I know that F.W. Murnau was "the guy who did Nosferatu." I had to check IMDB to see who Philippe Druillet was, and apparently he did an animated movie of Nosferatu, but to suggest that he's the cinematic equivalent of Eisner is frankly, asinine. And your suggestion that Eisner was "racist" because of one character (which he deeply regretted in his later years) is both reductionist and ignorant. AS for your kids, I never breathed a word about them and you started bitching at people before they were even brought up. SO you have 1000 comics, BFD - for all we know those could be Archies and Ninja Turtle ripoffs. Nonetheless, I would bet you anything that the majority of the people who created those 1000 comics would say that EIsner was one of, if not the single, most influential creators in the business. I'm not a major fan of Eisner's, but I wouldn't be so stupid as to deny his influence. To jump to yet another medium, anyone who claimed to be serious about American literature and who never read Twain because he was "racist" would look like an utter fool.
Dec. 25, 2008, 4 p.m. CST
...but to continually harp on Eisner being racist, solely to win a flame war, is disingenuous to say the least. Eisner's work on the Spirit started in the 30's, having an ethnic caricature was nothing scandalous, and your attempts to paint Eisner as a vile racist for including such a character is a pretty desperate maneuver. Can you tell us WHY you think that his depiction of Ebony White is such a grievous insult to good taste? Are you also going to tar and feather Milton Caniff for his depictions of asians? Do you know who Caniff is? These guys are not esoteric footnotes in the history of the comics industry, they almost single handedly created it. I don't really care all that much that you don't appreciate this work, but I am going to correct your misguided notions of what is and isn't quality, meaningful work in the field of golden age comics. You can just say that you don't like the Spirit, but to reject Eisner's entire body of work as the product of a racist is an insult to the man's legacy and fairly ignorant. Anyway, no harm no foul, I do hope that you're not re-routing your flight to commit premeditated murder on a garden variety talkback shittalker, and that you get out of the airport in time for your son and yourself to enjoy one helluva good Christmas.
Dec. 25, 2008, 4:06 p.m. CST
The point for me is not whether The Spirit was great or not (Full disclosure: The few I've read I've found a little boring; amazing-looking, but boring) or even whether Eisner was racist or not (I've read enough *about* the man to convince me that indeed,he wasn't), but the notion of willful ignorance, that we have nothing to learn from the past. I've had this argument with people who call Alan Moore the most influential comics creator ever, when Moore himself would admit that he would give his right nut to be Harvey Kurtzman and his left nut to be Jack Kirby. To Kurt I would say read a bit of history of comics (Men Of TOmorrow by Gerard Jones is a good one) and quit hiding behind talk of racism. Actually, a perfect analogy is John Ford. A Native American film buff would probably not have warm feelings about The Searchers, but to deny Ford's influence on film because of that would be ridiculous.
Dec. 25, 2008, 4:26 p.m. CST
means that you are a poseur with IMDB and WIkipedia. Murnau was among the many artists who, like EIsner with comics, defined the language of movies. But your defense of not knowing who Eisner is seems to amount to "he was a racist." Whether or not Eisner was racist (again, I am pretty sure he wasn't) has NO BEARING on whether he was a major figure.I personally don't care if you read the Spirit or not. I cringe when I see Ebony White, too. However, to suggest that because of that he was a minor figure in comics history show nothing more than your own ignorance of the history of the medium.
Dec. 25, 2008, 4:32 p.m. CST
crystalizes exactly why I dislike him.
Dec. 25, 2008, 4:46 p.m. CST
It's about knowing the history of what you're talking about. BTW, James Madison owned slaves (I can use google, too). That would be real racism. I guess you probably don't read Nabokov because of Lolita, either, or Shakespeare because of Shylock. Good for you. That has nothing to do with EIsner's influence on the medium. And knowing that doesn't make one a geek, it makes one knowledgeable. Just spare me your hiding behind racism to rationalize your ignorance of the history of the medium.
Dec. 25, 2008, 4:54 p.m. CST
..."Eddie, you keep talking like a bitch, I'm gonna slap you like a bitch." You gotta expect that when you strut into a talkback and casually lob troll bait like "Eisner is esoteric and niche," "racist Will Eisner," and "nyah nyah nyah" that people who do recognize Eisner's importance are going to fling shit back at you. It's practically in the site's FAQ. Yeah, a blood vendetta on your firstborn is possibly a slight bit of overkill, but it IS a holiday, and different cultures have different traditions, who are we to discriminate, etc. I've barged into talkbacks before and shot my mouth off about something I knew too little about, and been viciously schooled by an unmerciful mob of knowledgable assholes (and @$$holes)... it's one of the reasons I find talkback interesting enough to come back; I learn things. Sometimes esoteric and niche, but usually interesting. And so far I haven't yet had to track anyone down and knife them. But you do come close occasionally. Anyway, consider us charitable for providing the airport distraction for so long. Peace.
Dec. 25, 2008, 5:23 p.m. CST
Have read a couple. Enjoy them immensely. Want to read the Spider and the Shadow also. Starting to love the pulp novels.
Dec. 25, 2008, 5:34 p.m. CST
...not unless they had absolutely zero understanding of crime fiction...or any type of good fiction. The Sin City comics, from book one, page one, were steaming piles, from a hack level writer. They're pure garbage, just like Miller's latest Batman comics ( and really...if you read The Dark Knight Returns and give an honest opinion...it ain't that swell). But the good thing is, it's not likely he'll ever make another film. Now if we can just keep him away from writing comics...hmmmm
Dec. 25, 2008, 5:59 p.m. CST
Sin City is fine if you think Mickey Spillane is the height of pulp mysteries - in other words if you've never heard of Hammett or Chandler, you might think that this is what film noir is "all about." But it's pure dreck.
Dec. 25, 2008, 6:01 p.m. CST
Is Doc Savage still in print? I'd love to find some. What I've found is that when it comes to "the pulps," only a fraction of what was available is known to most people now. Once you start digging around, they get really weird. But yeah, if there were no pulps, we'd have no Indiana Jones and probably no Star Wars.
Dec. 25, 2008, 6:35 p.m. CST
There is a reason why I do not give out my address, because I know for a fact since you are a real stereotype internet tough guy, I know you will not do shit about it. You think you are the first to yell threats at me over the internet? Please. They never follow through. Besides, if you killed someone over some words on the internet, you know how stupid you would look? Saving everyone the trouble.
Dec. 25, 2008, 6:38 p.m. CST
If you did not want to get your brat kid shitted on, then you would have not brought the fucker up in a sad attempt to discredit someone in claiming you stuck your dick in a vagina. #1 Rule of the Internet, if you do not want anyone talking about something sensitive, THEN DO NOT POST IT! DUH! More you post = More ammo for the cannon. :3
Dec. 25, 2008, 6:41 p.m. CST
Check out Amazon. Have all sorts of pulp goodies. I really would love to see Doc Savage on the big screen. If done correctly you could make lots of them.
Dec. 25, 2008, 7:21 p.m. CST
...I hope Santa brought you some Spirit comics, Kurt, so you'll have something more concrete than a wikipedia entry on which to form your opinion.
Dec. 25, 2008, 7:40 p.m. CST
You're the one who started lowering the discourse here. I don't recall myself making any actual insulting remarks toward you, other than to point out where you've been willfully ignorant, and that's something you seem rather proud about. I've done plenty today, not just sat around waiting for your responses with baited breath (although I must admit it has been fun). GOod luck with the anger issues.
Dec. 25, 2008, 9:03 p.m. CST
by Max Meanie
And I don't mean Miller's god awful film. The comments made about Will Eisner's work on this board is horrendous but I understand because many haven't been exposed to his work. From "New York Stories" to "A Contract with God" to his greatest creation The Spirit, Eisner lasting mark on comics was his constant experimentation of the art form. The Spirit may be a bland boy scout but he was just the catalyst for Eisner's superb storytelling. You read a Spirit Section to get great entertainment because he packed more action, emotion and suspense in 7 pages than in today's DC & Marvel 6 issue trades. And to call Eisner a racist is a disservice to the man's life. Ebony may have been drawn as a stereotype (and for that there's no excuse) but the character himself was always heroic and the star of many of the Spirit Sections at a time when there were rarely any heroic black characters in a major newspaper. Remember, The Spirit appeared in hundreds of papers as detachable Spirit Sections. Ebony was/is a landmark character in comics history. Yes he could've been drawn more realistically but he was independent, made his own money and fought crime alongside The Spirit. He wasn't depicted as a fool as in other media of the 1940's. And Eisner took a deep stand against racism in his last work "The Secret Story of the Protocols of Zion" debunking the a source of anti-semitism. Lastly his storytelling was to comics what Citizen Kane was to film - radically different. Calling The Spirit boring is like saying Seven Samurai was just a kung fu film w/swords or Resevoir Dogs was just a bank hold-up (for you under 30 types). And that's the problem. I know that it's next to impossible get anybody these days to see a b&w film from the 30's & 40's but Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Ford, Murnau, Wilder, Hawks, etc made films that stand the test of time. Films that still resonate to this day. I've shown Star Wars fans "The Hidden Fortress" and they love it. Ten years from now it'll be just as difficult to get people to watch "Star Wars" and that's the rub. It might be hard to track them down but Eisner's Spirit stories are fun and full of humanity which is missing from a lot of today's comics. RE: MILLER's unwatchable piece of crap - I'm surprised he didn't put Ebony in it. Even the Sam J Jones tv movie put him in and he wasn't a characiture. Miller is too caught up in his own ego to find the esscence of what made Eisner's work so enjoyable. Too quote a friend of mine, "I wonder if Sylvester Stallone realizes how he fucked up Judge Dredd forever." Truth is, he doesn't care and neither does Miller about anything he does. Get The Spirit Masterworks and then bitch about him. You might like it.
Dec. 25, 2008, 10:08 p.m. CST
I'm assuming she ain't hot.
Dec. 25, 2008, 10:49 p.m. CST
I would marry you tomorrow on the spot. I have a ring. It's a standing offer.
Dec. 26, 2008, 12:12 a.m. CST
by Akira Cowabunga
I fart in your faces!
Dec. 26, 2008, 12:58 a.m. CST
I'm thinking "Yes."
Dec. 26, 2008, 1:07 a.m. CST
...zzzzzzz... Dead, babies... ...zzzzzzz...
Dec. 26, 2008, 10:25 a.m. CST
are a continuing death wish.
Dec. 26, 2008, 3:55 p.m. CST
everyone is going on about what a "sparkling" review this is. Basically you are all saying "Great opinion, I love your opinion, your opinion is so wonderful and special I want to roll it into a ball and shove it in my vagina."
Dec. 26, 2008, 6:25 p.m. CST
especially to casual readers, there's nothing wrong with just a good solid and fun story. After all they were just seven pages at first and Eisner pretty much used them as exorcises. But to make this, I haven't seen it yet but I've seen as much that's out there as possible and frankly just that makes me ill. The jury should always be out on any film till you've seen it, but my god it's hard to drag any enthusiasm out for this. I'll take Ghost Rider, The Punisher AND X3 before this. Maybe even Spider-man 3.
Dec. 26, 2008, 9:47 p.m. CST
Not that there's anything wrong with it, but: http://www.kurtlockwood.com/
Dec. 27, 2008, 3:48 a.m. CST
by Akira Cowabunga
Should call himself Cockwood.
Dec. 27, 2008, 11:19 a.m. CST
superman would have seen dkr batman from a mile away and lasereyed him.
Dec. 27, 2008, 2:20 p.m. CST
Anyone who has seen what a piece of shit his Dark Knight sequal was should have been prepared for this. I was at a comic shop yesterday, haven't been in ages, and I couldn't believe all the Spirit giveaway shit laying around. Posters, postcards, trading cards, stickers, talking key chains, pitch black buttplugs with a long red satin tie attached, you name it, and it sure as shit seemed like a assload of smoke and mirrors to cover up what stinky dung this movie is. The previews gave it away months ago and I hope this effectively slams the door shut on Frank fucking Miller. Go to hell Frank, you screwed Eisner good and he deserved more, and I think you DO owe comic fans because how the fuck would you have afforded to live without them? Your scary screenwriter skills?
Dec. 27, 2008, 2:21 p.m. CST
Dec. 27, 2008, 2:35 p.m. CST
the more Miller's statement about not oweing fans anything REALLY pisses me off. He owes fans EVERYTHING. He's not some high-form artiste' creating esoteric works in his studio that only he sees for his own edification. What a fucking dick on wheels this guy is. Now watch him go crawling to Marvel to do another Daredevil project in two years when his Spirit money has disappeared up his nose.
Dec. 28, 2008, 2:31 p.m. CST
...couldn't prevent this film from being a steaming pile of shit. I wanted to believe despite less than inspiring early trailers and Miller's decade long drought of anything remotely creative. I even talked three friends into seeing it (after we missed the 4:20 for Gran Torino) - paid for their tickets as well... and they still wanted their money back. This was awful, Frank, downright fucking painful. I don't know much of the original source material, but I imagined it has been thoroughly raped. Dupont has a point (among a great many) in that your slow, creative death could have played out in relative obscurity, but crashing, burning and vaporizing on Christmas Day? Lets just hope Rodriguez lets you back for Sin City 2.
Feb. 12, 2010, 7:17 a.m. CST