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Moriarty’s Been Thinking About SUPERMAN...
Hey, everyone. “Moriarty” here.
Okay. Let’s get something straight regarding the occasional BUZZKILL column here on the site. I’ve got nothing against a good rumor. My problem is with bad rumors. I’ve been sifting through them for 12 years online, and I’ve got a decent average. Not perfect. But decent. Either you buy that by now or you don’t.
And I’ve certainly pissed some people off over the years with opinions I’ve offered up. And that’s cool. There’s no way to begin to deny that. I think when you write opinion, you risk that every single time. Even when I like things, I manage to piss people off sometimes. Timing can be crucial.
Let me say this: I’ve got some regrets regarding SUPERMAN.
I’ve spoken to JJ Abrams one time since I sort of torpedoed him. He was really genial when we spoke on the phone, and it was a fairly casual conversation overall. We talked more about STAR TREK than anything, but in a general off-the-record sort of way. I think it was still early days for them, and we were starting to bust the story a bit. I would imagine the SUPERMAN incident crossed his mind, and he decided to call me and see if he could talk about his goals with the film before I ended up reading anything this time.
It takes a real solid person to make a call like that and to be as comfortable as he was. And after seeing SUPERMAN RETURNS, frankly... I’m not sure that it was a better decision to shoot that than to have stuck with Abrams and whoever ended up directing it since McG couldn’t fly. And it’s been nagging at me, especially as they start to talk about making their choices for the new film.
Because... trust me... there WILL be a new film.
I’ve spoken with McG a few times, too, and I always half-believe he’s about three seconds from punching me. I’m also convinced that’s because he really is constantly about three seconds from punching me. It certainly makes for an interesting day on set.
But truth is, I never bagged him once on SUPERMAN. Everything I talked about was regarding the rejiggered details of the mythos, the idea of rigging it the way they were. It changed the fundamentals. That was the thing that made me uncomfortable as a fan of the iconography of SUPERMAN. There are details that make him who he is. Everything else is sort of Elseworlds one-shot “what if his spaceship landed in the ocean, and the baby Superman drowned?” radical what if stuff. And that’s fine. I love some of those books dearly. It’s cool to play with it, bend it, twist it. But the original... that’s always in place. The traditional. That’s really what endures with some characters, and with Superman in particular.
People want Superman. They do. They’ll go. If you show them a trailer that is a promise. And if you just meet that promise. Make it fun. Make it H U G E. Make it fun. Make it smart. Make it fun. Make it about something real and honest that uses the icon right, without irony. And make it fun. That’s what we’ve always been promised, and really... no film does it yet. Not really. I like stuff about the first three films. I like a few things about Singer’s film, but have some real major problems with it. I’m partial to the Fleischer cartoons more than anything. SUPERMAN III is a freakshow if it’s 3:30 AM and you’ve got the munchies. But is there a SUPERMAN film or TV show, even among the animated ones, that gets it all 100% yet?
Warner Bros, like I said... I feel bad about even the possibility that any part of my article or the press you guys got afterwards about it or any fallout from it led to you guys redeveloping the property. I feel bad because, like I said... comparing what you made versus what you could have made, I’m not sure I was right. I think the controversy might have been outweighed by the “holy shit” of it. And maybe that would have been fun. Not really SUPERMAN, but fun.
When I wrote what I wrote, I certainly knew that it would cause a reaction of some sort in the fan community. It was absolutely a test shot across the bow. Because it was a reinvention of the wheel. And maybe that reinvention would have been really groovy to watch. I’ll bet those fights would have been madness. Chaos. Total GODZILLA-scale destruction.
Which, to be fair, is what I would have liked a little more of (or even any of) in Singer’s film. Just a little fucking rock and roll, right?
I have heard the rumblings of Mark Millar out there sniffing around it, and I would imagine Legendary has heard about 3000000000 pitches on the property at this point from writers in that rarified paygrade, the A-list all-star usual suspects. And I would imagine they’re going to make a decision soon. And whatever that person is doing, I would imagine we’re going to hear that word again, that buzzword of the day.
Reimagining.
The hell of it is... Warner Bros. owns the right property. Tom DeHaven’s novel is a thing of burnished beauty, smart and richly imagined and profound. It is classic Superman in every way, but it manages to make it all feel real, immediate, brand new. I reviewed it here, but I can’t find the review in our archives. But it’s theirs. They published it. And the last thing you could call it would be a reimagining.
It is, instead, what happens when you crush coal for 50 years, telling the same story 10,000 different ways. Eventually, you will produce a diamond. The story told right. The version that works best.
And while I’m apologizing for things I’ve said in print, or at least invoking my right to update my opinion after further life experience, can I suggest a director/writer choice? I gain nothing from this except the possibility that if you’re truly open to anything regarding getting the character right, and learning the RIGHT lessons from THE DARK KNIGHT, then bear with me.
I know someone who needs to have a “fuck you” sized hit, guaranteeing him another 20 years of total freedom. I think you’d be doing the world of film a service, and you’d be getting the single most beautiful SUPERMAN film ever made. I don’t think it’s debatable. And if you’ve read this source material, you’d know how dead on they are.
There’s a detour through a Southern landscape deep in O BROTHER country, there’s a New York that feels like it shares the same snowfall as THE HUDSUCKER PROXY, and there’s a precision of language that is as carefully calibrated as the screenplays these guys write together. I’ve said some pretty harsh words regarding them when I didn’t like the films they were making, at one point suggesting they consider a few years off of filmmaking altogether. But that’s the disappointment of an ardent fan, knowing that behind the scenes they were struggling to find a home for the work they really wanted to be doing.
Let’s be clear. I don’t think they should ever have to struggle to do anything. I think they are a natural resource, and they should be followed around by a team of people with checkbooks. I had it all wrong before. The answer isn’t them giving up because they couldn’t make a few films they wanted to. The answer is that they should make one film that is already plugged into the national zeitgeist, and they should make it the biggest goddamn piece of candy they can. Because there are very few filmmakers who work at the same level of visual invention as Joel and Ethan Coen.
The Coen Brothers. IT’S SUPERMAN. 2010.
Now we’ve made amends. Go make a billion dollars. And then let the Coens make a film a year until they die. Or, if you insist on “not listening to the lunatic fanboy” and “making a professional decision” and “earning your paychecks,” then so be it. It’s just that with people getting crazy over the idea that you can make a potential Oscar nominee that’s the second biggest film of all time, and it’s a superhero movie, there are choices being made... on all sorts of properties...
And we’ve seen this before, haven’t we? For each good one, there will be some really-not-good ones, and it’s a crap shoot. On this one particular property, I have no idea what the studio is thinking right now. I don’t have an inside scoop.
I’m not sure when they’re going to announce what they’re doing, or if they’re even moving forward aggressively. Maybe they’re doing nothing. I don’t really know.
But it’s a chance. You pulled the trigger. You cleared out that giant development anchor that was weighing the first one down. You spent $200-howmuch? million once everything was said and done. And... it was what it was.
Don’t chase anybody else’s movie. Don’t model it after any other hit. It’s Superman. IT’S SUPERMAN, indeed.
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
Drew McWeeny, Los Angeles
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Bring on a fun superman!
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just won't happen unless they do JLA or Batman & Supes.
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but seriously, i doubt the coens would ever think of doing a superhero film.
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yes he is
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all opinion no news. Hey Mori...I want a 10 inch dick, doesn't mean I'm gonna get it.
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create their own cartoons thank you very much. They do not need others.
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I don't ever see it happening... but it's nice to dream, isn't it?
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Anyway, yeah, Singer's Superman took everything (basically) that was bad about the original Superman movies and left nothing (mostly) that was good.
Why can't Lex Luthor be the badass corporate villian he should be, or at least the brilliant mad scientist? Why does he have to obsess over stupid real estate deals???
Why does Superman have to be a stalker? (not saying he couldn't if he had those powers, but that doesn't mean he should)
Why does there have to be a comic-relief woman instead of a bad-ass/hot woman body-guard
By the way Moriarty, Superman: The Animated Series wasn't always perfect, but when it was good it was damn freaking good.
How could Superman lift up a giant island made of kryptonite without at least getting a "running start" by flying from China through the Earth, and then coming out under it? (yes, that's different than just going under it, and arguably cooler)
Why does Pa Kent have to be dead?
Why can't we have a more science fictiony villain? I would definitely even have Zod back, but come on, let's see a reallly villainous Brainiac
And that's all I got for now... -
... you are not allowed to talk about the "Cohens" and what they would or wouldn't do if you can't even spell their name.
And I never said it was news, G-Ride. It's an editorial. But thanks for pointing out the obvious. Here's your free one year subscription to BIG FUCKING DUH magazine. -
That article barely made any sense. What I think Mori is saying is that he wants the Coen brothers to make a Superman movie, and also he visited a Superman movie set where McG was the director?Either that or there is some insider Hollywood shit going on about people in talks to make a new Superman movie at this current time and this is Mori's Variety ad about why the Coens are best for it? I'm perplexed.
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While the Smallville series has made a few missteps in it's 7 seasons so far, it's done a lot that's right and now it's in what looks like it's last season, Warners should transition that show for the big screen, but only if given a decent minimum
150 mill budget.
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Especially me.
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Really Bryan fucked it up, bad. Moriarity I really don't know what is keeping you up at night, but if I am right. You are like me, you just wanted to see a good Superman movie. And that monstrosity that came out two years ago was a piece of shit, plain and simple.
This franchise needs a serious re-boot, and you should be welcome to voice your opinion.
My two cents. -
They do need to take it seriously and give it to us BIG!!! Superman Returns literally had me falling asleep. It should be IMPOSSIBLE to fall asleep in a Superman film.
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Smallville should have died like 5 years ago, not be given a fucking MOVIE. Are you insane?
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...and the super-son plot was INSANE, but it was still essentially Superman which JJ Abrams' take WAS NOT in any way shape or form. NO ONE EVER HAS TO APOLOGIZE FOR HATING THAT CONCEPT.
Make the next one another sequel, but have Superman get lost in time/space and have him visit the 30s, 50s, 70s & 90s -- like an elseworlds anthology movie. Whichever alternate reality turns out to be the best received, use it to set the tone of the next sequel. -
would be interested in a major property like Superman. I think their visual wit and sense of story could be applied to any pop-culture mythology, but I just don't think that's the kind of film maker's they are. Theoretically its a perfect match of creative team and material but sadly I just think the Coen's consider themselves "above it". I would love to be wrong.
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Why doesn't warner let Nolan take over the Superman franchise for the next film. Put Simply Batman 3 could be Superman VS Batman...Batman is seen as a criminal by the city, Gotham cries for help, in comes Supes to save the day...or at least figur out Batman is not really the bad guy, hence the duo forming a team....wait nm that sounds lame.
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Raising Arizona anyone? They understand characters, and it would be interesting to see their take on this mythology. But at this point, I will not hold my breath for it just as long as Bryan Singer stays far away from the Superman property.
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was that (when he wasn't busy stalking Lois) Superman really did seem larger than life in it. I get the impression Bryan Singer could do some really awesome stuff visually and tonally with the character, if he wasn't preoccupied with recreating the original movies. Bringing back Zod for the sequel is the most uninteresting idea possible. Like I said, there's a sense of awe that I feel for the character of Superman when I watch SR, so all the plot problems aside, I do kind of enjoy the movie for that alone. But when I heard he was considering bringing Zod back for part 2, I couldn't help groaning. I don't want to see that. I want to see something new now please.
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It's been shit the last two seasons. All of the elements that made the show worth watching are gone (John Schneider, John Glover, Rosenbaum). Even with a return of Unsociable Hammer and a retcon of the bullshit that's went on over the years, a film spinoff, other than the direct to dvd variety, ain't happenin'.
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Superman, as a film, should be a very simple, fun roller coaster ride. I understand that Singer and others tried, wanted to explore the "emotional underpinnings" of the character. I enjoyed Singer's version, which was a remix of Donner's films. The son storyline leaves too much baggage. I think Brandon Routh was fine, mainly because I saw a young Chris Reeves in him. Tim Burton's treatment was just terrible, Kevin Smith proved that. Superman, needs kinetic energy visually. It also must reflect the characters superpowers: which are so exciting and envious to anyone. The Coen brothers would make an interesting, however it's not what the general public wants to see. I already dig the Vision Moriarty has for the film. I think it' be engaging.let's just get Michael Bay, make money and satisfy the public. I am sure that has been said in quite a few boardrooms and bathroom's in Warner Bothers studios. Put Tom Welling in the suit, give Smallville's rabid audience the payoff they have waited for. Otherwise, get some studio/hack/lapdog and let Warner's decide "what fiscal direction" their franchise should take. If "Watchmen" ever comes out,during his down time of endless press junkets, get Zack Synder, he's the flavor of the month. My pick for a director: Give Fred Dekker some cash and let's have some fun.
www.myspace.com/jerryhorror
www.JERRYHORRORLIVES.COM -
But it is basically completely unwatchable now. They gave up on any potential he could have possibly had when they didn't kill off Chloe in that one season finale, and in fact wrapped up that whole season finale in one episode, when it clearly deserved an entire season arc.
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Sorry, but he is. Historically, yes, Superman is important, and great, but there can't be a more difficult character to build a movie around. He's too powerful, too good, too without flaws. He's practically Jesus. And that's why the Richard Donner film worked - it was making fun of the whole Superman as the son of god thing. It didn't take the subject matter too seriously. Tongues were planted firmly in cheeks, yet the movie was respectful of Superman's place in history. Peter Jackson's King Kong sucked because he was trying to take the concept of a giant ape far too seriously. You can't make a truly serious film about a ridiculous concept like a giant monkey or a man who is completely invulnerable and super smart. I don't think any remake is going to be better than the 70's Superman, just as I think the 70's King Kong is ten thousand times better than Peter Jackson's self-important pretentious King Kong.
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I'd pay to see that.
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Direct quote: "Ethan had a nightmare of one day finding me on the set of something like The Incredible Hulk, wearing a gold chain and saying, 'I've got to eat, don't I?'"
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Crispin Glover as Brainiac. Please the dumbass nerds!!!
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I really don't think the Coen brothers have any desire whatsoever to direct a Superman film. Also I don't particularly want to see a "quirky" subversion of the superhero genre two-thirds of the way through the movie...
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Sounded gawdawful and hopefully he helped put a bullet in it. And while I like the idea of the Coens making a supes film, sounds like a pipe dream. Also, I am kind of bummed that this was just an editorial when I thought it'd be news, but what the hey. Anyway, give Mark Millar his Superman script, and hand it off to somebody who can do big (lets go Gore Verbinski from Pirates) and let it rock n' roll.
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so what was the point of this article? to make a sales pitch for the coens? oh... to 'update your opinions'... strange... also, you're a good review mori, but i think you give yourself a bit too much credit with the influence you hold over hollywood and the fanboy community... i seriously doubt aicn is even a blip on their radar anymore, maybe back in 1998, but 2008? shit no
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Is something going on that we don't know about? Is this AICN trying to make up for years of destroying movies by trying to single-handedly make one happen? Or am I going to wake up in the morning to find I dreamed this whole thing?
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He's talking specifically about the novel "It's Superman" by Tom DeHaven being made into a movie. I've brought this up a few times on the Superman talkbacks. It would be the perfect Superman movie. I don't necessarily think the Coens would do something like this, but if they did, that would be the story they should do. I'd love to see this done by someone. I feel it would be the Superman movie the world didn't even know it wanted. The fodder is there for a real artistic achievement.
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It just won't happen.
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However, I could easily picture what a Coen Superman would look like. They could do Superman with the same color scheme of O Brother and set it in the bustling Metropolis 1930's dawn of Superman.
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It is very violent, and the author has great period detail of the Great Depression. Luthor is a murderous corrupt politician. I can imagine a great movie being made by the Coens from it. The way they made NY look in Hudsucker was certainly grand and rich in period detail. And of course they love their violence, which this story contains quite graphically.
De Haven really gives a sense of Superman getting used to his powers, his strength, which I've never seen with Superman before. I did look at him in a different way, as you see him trying to figure out a way to use them properly and how it affects him.
There is a bit of an awkward transition though to harsh reality '30s New York to the [SPOILER] sudden introduction of the robots in that period.
However, I don't think WB would do this one-shot kind of movie. I don't think it fits into their current gameplan- a modern Superman that can tie in with the other DC heroes and their movies.
I also didn't like the Abrams revisions but I agree it certainly could've created an exciting movie, if you could handle the changes made to the old story. -
However, I could easily picture what a Coen Superman would look like. They could do Superman with the same color scheme of O Brother and set it in the bustling Metropolis 1930's dawn of Superman.
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I get it. Because he's BALD, right?!
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I will ONLY go see a new Superman film IF it has Bruce Campbell and Crispin Glover in it.
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...if it made the leap to film after season 4. It's too late now. It's gone too far off the rails to be turned into a proper Superman movie.
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A well-written piece, Mori. I remember when you torpedoed Abrams's script, since I supported your opinion 100 percent. I'm mostly a big fan of Abrams but didn't like the sound of some of his Superman ideas. Especially Lex Luthor being a secret descendent from Krypton.
Overall I'm not a big fan of Superman. I enjoyed the first movie, but didn't find it memorable. It's probably Superman himself I find irritating. He's got a tremendously good heart and wants to save everyone even with his godlike powers. That's wishful thinking if there ever was such a thing. Tons of people love Supes, I know, but he leaves me shrugging my shoulders. He's so powerful yet so good-natured that he bores me.
I think this is why "The Dark Knight" did so well. Obviously it was a well-written, well-directed film showing Batman is just as flawed as the rest of us. He's got crazy abilities and intelligence, but he sweats, breathes hard, and bleeds if you shoot him. He's more sympathetic than Superman because he's human.
The thing Superman needs is a more powerful and terrifying adversary, one he can't beat with his powers. Harry mentioned Darkseid in his last piece. Human threats are never a match for Supes, thus there's always little to no drama with those. Bring on Darkseid and let the mind-wiping and explosive violence commence.
Finally, I personally don't want the Coens directing the next Superman. They offer so much more with their original or personally adapted stories. I don't want them wasted on a superhero film.
But thanks for your opinions, Mori. Always cool to hear what you have to say. -
I liked Superman Returns. It wasn't perfect but there was a lot of potential there for a sequel.
Heck I even wrote a sequel script (which I then started rewriting...and then stopped when the "reintroduction" comment was made) that still had Superman's son but also had more Superman doing what he does best.
Mori, you were right to say what you did about the Abrams script. But Superman Returns was infinitely better than anything Warners had been planning over the last couple of decades.
It had problems, all of which could be easily resolved in a sequel. But the biggest problem was that Warners expected Star Wars or Spider-Man.
The truth is, that Superman Returns made $391 Million is actually very good considering that it opened near the biggest film of 2006, that it had a staggered release, which resulted in huge piracy of the film, that the biggest sporting event in the world was taking place and the time and that frankly, Superman wasn't very popular at the time.
People forget that Batman Begins made less money than Superman Returns and it went on to have a record breaking sequel. People forget that the critics were largely positive about the film, that those who actually went to see the film liked it for the most part.
Forget us, forget the geeks. We are a very small minority. The movie going public, the casual viewer, they are the ones that Warners need to impress.
And those people simply weren't interested in a Superman movie. But the film was still moderately successful and Warners now has a foundation to build upon.
Their best option is to bring Singer back, with some good writers this time, and continue the series. A reboot at this stage would result in an Incredible Hulk-like return with no real significant improvement at the box office.
The Dark Knight has shown that building on the moderate success of a first film can work. People like Routh, most of those who actually saw the film liked it. A reboot would alienate those people.
The best option for Warners is to press ahead with a sequel with Singer at the helm. He delivered a great sequel with X-Men 2 and there is no reason to think that he couldn't do the same with Superman.
There is also a lot of buzz surrounding Valkyrie, there's even talk of Oscars. Singer will become one of the most sought after directors in Hollywood once more but Warners already have a contract with him to do a Superman sequel.
Superman doesn't need a reboot. It just needs some good writing. Everything is there....a LexCorp Luthor can be easily done, an alien menace, more action etc etc. Everything that is needed for a kick ass Superman movie has been set up in Superman Returns.
And after 70 years of Superman, the character of Jason provides something that has been missing for a long time, a fresh approach. I can think of a few ideas off the top of my head that would involve Jason without him becoming "superboy" and if I can do it, surely some good Hollywood writer can too.
As far as Mark Millar goes, I think he should be kept far away from Superman but that's just me.
Imagine a Superman movie that has a bit of Fleischer, a bit of the world of Timm, the epic feel of Donner, the fantasy realm of the comics and the grounded reality of Returns...in a sequel. It could be amazing.
The Coens are on a roll right now though I'm not sure they would be right for Superman. Warners have a director in Singer who has shown he can deliver the goods, a popular Superman in Routh and the potential for a kick ass sequel.
A reboot right now would be a disaster for Warners and Superman on the big screen. Returns managed to get people interested in Superman again...now it's time to take it to the next level. Batman did it...and anything Batman can do, Superman can do better.
Also, Warners, if you're out there...I have a pitch for a Lobo movie and a Booster Gold movie. Call me :P -
Honestly the Coens doing a superman film might be the only thing that could lead me to watch a superman film. And you're right, Coens' movies are all about investigating america's myths, so it would be spott on... But I doubt the studio would let them free on this...
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I have to say...this is the best bit of writing I've ever seen from you, Moriarty. Being a father (for a while now) kind of changes one's perspective doesn't it? Or at least it does for me...I find myself spending MUCH more time contemplating my past actions of late. The Coens would certainly knock this one out of the park. WB...make it happen.
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I really don't think the Coens woudl mesh with Superman at all. Nothing in any of their films - particularly nothing cited in this article - makes me feel even remotely interested in whatever they'd produce. Keep them away from superheroes in general, says I. In truth, the property doesn't need to be reimagined because NO ONE HAS EVER brought the MODERN SUPERMAN to the BIG SCREEN. They keep selling people the pre-Crisis, 1930s Superman. Nothing where Luthor is the businessman that he's been in the television incarnations since the early '90s. Nothing where Clark Kent is the real guy, a guy with human insecurities and concerns, and Superman is just a character that people idealize and create in their minds when they see him in the suit... as has been the case in the comics since the '80s and the Dini/Timm animated series in the late '90s. That's what the public is ready for. A Superman who's vulnerable, who isn't a god. Who can be hurt, who can get seriously angry. Who can growl "get up" at a bad guy after pummeling him to the pavement, then sit on the porch at home and ask for dating advice from Ma and Pa.
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That would be so amazing. I'd pay twice the normal ticket price to see that.
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I'll say it again. Why can there not be a "stand alone" Superhero story?
Why can we not just drop new actors and such into new stories without reintroducing them or reimagining them and whatnot?
The public knows the character. He knows the origin. We don't need a "reboot." We need new talent behind everything, but let them plunk us down in the middle of Superman's "career" - fighting new villains we haven't seen before.
Or am I overestimating the general public's already low intelligence level? -
My thought is J.J. Abrams, McG, Bryan Singer, and the suits at Warner Bros. might hear about this column, collectively scratch their heads, and say, "Moriarty who?"
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Never. Ever. JJ Abrams is a two or three-trick pony who only works in small doses and cannot sustain a television program beyond anything but hype, bullshit viral marketing, and constant, mind-numbing humanistic subplots. There is no excuse for a "Mission: Impossible" film ending on THE GUYS GOING HOME FROM THE OFFICE FOR THE NIGHT, other than this is the man who brought you "Felicity" and ten thousand boring, tired overwrought flashbacks on "Lost" for saccharine manchild characters like Charlie and Hurley. I cautiously support his "Trek" because it is in small doses, not another serialized television work, and he has some good ideas. But his Superman draft was an abortion. I'll take anyone over that...except Bryan Singer, who has two defining themes in his superhero films; crushing, pervasive mediocrity that drains all the life out of the property, and the same tired "plight of the other/gay" trope he has been working for like ten years. I'm sick of him and that shit and I'm gay, for God's sake. Anyone but Singer or Abrams.
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You raped the Coen's with your mouth in one review and then No Country shut you up. You talked bad about the JJ Supers with Lex as a Krypton superpower villain- and Now you say, "Well maybe that wouldn't have been so bad." McG is rising to power and he remembers good ole Mori's opinions of him. I seen several movies like this where the guy get shit on moves up the latter and the shitters run back and beg for forgiveness and or act all chummy.
Remember that thing about bridges and how it's not wise to burn them.
The Coens are beyond Superman. They really are. It would be a waste of their time. What your suggesting sound like a Bribe Job to net them into making a film they probably never cared to make.
Your 'e basically saying "Hey WB, offer the Coen's this movie for lots of money and promise them the right to make as many films as they want with all the freedom in the world if they do so"
It's not like they woke up one day and said "Yeah man, lets make a Superman flick!". No!
Your telling someone to ring their agents and beg them to do it- Not even knowing if it's something they are into. Your thought process is all about their style and wit, and what they could possibly do with the material----- but what does it fucking matter, when they don't even care, and they are only doing it for more money and the promise to make as many films as they want with absolute power.
That's the wrong way to make any film. The people who make it should have wanted to make it since day one. They should have an unhealthy obsession with the material.
I guess you finally saw a few people show you up. Thinking the stake was taking hold and they were over you gave em a what, being pretty classy about it too. Now they rise in power beyond expectations. It's that "I've been here a long time- you need proof of my nose- read my reviews. I've seen so many films. I'm a Master Critic!!! and I know what's Best!" Ego that's fucking Burning the Bridges.
I hate seeing people kick a man when he's down. And in a way you could say you've done that quite a few times. But it's funny when there's wit tossed in right!!! (not being serious at all)
Critics think too much of themselves now-a-days they really want to control things. It's rants like this that sorta show it. Ego is a mutherfucker. -
I respectfully disagree with much of what you wrote regarding "Superman Returns," vadakinX. You liked the film, and that's fine, but I thought it was shit-splattering trainwreck of epic proportions. Literally one of the worst films I've ever seen, not just one of the worst superhero films I've ever seen.
If another Superman story gets made, I'm a hundred percent for a reboot. I don't want to see Routh, I don't want to see whatever-her-name was as Lois Lane, I don't want to see Kevin Spacey as Luthor. Because seeing these actors as their characters would remind me of the first film. And I really don't want that. -
Kill the kid.I haven't read the book, but if you decided to pseudo-re-imagine a film franchise, then do it with the next film... ala.Have a semi-sequel to Singer's film (like it was semi-sequel to the others), but have a real villain, that can do some real shit. I know, people don't think Doomsday is a good character, but he embodies everything that is opposite of Supes. Have a massive force of nature rip apart a good portion of America, to stop at Metropolis and end up killing Supes's "son".Superman goes batshit (keeping in tone to the 'new' dark version of DC-Comic's movies) and have an all out brawl... of course there is alot to flesh out to do that.I don't care really, I JUST WANT A GOOD GODDAMN SUPERMAN MOVIE, NOW!
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I think I might have to read this novel.
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David Gordon Green, maybe? I think that is his name, the guy that did Pineapple Express.
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Like Lucy doesn't work, when she launches into one of her hammy, vaudeville throwback routines. Oh sure, Lucy ruled in her day, by god she and Desi make current celeb's look downright anemic in comparison, but like the transition from silent to talkies, Superman as is remains locked a one-dimensional product of his times. People take a stab every now and again, sure, but Supe's is essentially boring to the core, you know it, I know it, Bat Man stands and smirks right in Clark's face because he knows it. I won't bore you with my take, but he needs a fresh perspective, this I know.
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Don't believe a word you hear from WB. I personally know people who worked on it here in Australia and that was the real budget, and Warners has never wanted anyone to know that. And in the words of the people of whom I speak "You or I could have directed that movie if they'd given us $350 million!"
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I have never laughed so hard at a movie I didn't like. Which still makes it a damn interesting movie. The problem with it though was I felt, quite literally, the Coens sort of lost the plot somewhere in there. They fell in love with their characters a bit too much. It really should have been Malkovich's (who was BRILLIANT) story. I loved every character, but how fucking hilarious would they have been if only, or at least most often, seen through the eyes of Osbourne Cox. This elitist asshole just being assaulted by the very idiots who continue to make him drag himself down to their level with every once in a while the greek CIA chorus of JK Simmons showing up to opine. If there is one thing that movie needed more of its JK Simmons, who almost stole the show with like 6 minutes of screen time. Somewhere the COens forgot that brevity is the soul of wit, and with the film going in so many directions, not all of them interesting, the wit lagged big time in the second act. Still there are some classic moments and some classic lines, and some classic performances by Malkovich, Clooney, Pitt, and jenkins. I think its the epitome of an interesting failure.
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Sorry, Drew. You're easily my favorite reviewer on the site, and I usually agree with both your reviews and your opinions, but I can't really think of a worse pairing than Superman and the Coens. It just sounds... terrible. That said, I'd love to see the Coens tackle a superhero picture... but something darker, and with a sense of humor. If The Punisher hadn't already been attempted twice now, I'd say maybe the Coens doing some Ennis Punisher. I mean hell, what I really want is Danny Boyle doing some Ennis Hellblazer, with Paul Bettany as John Constantine. As for the Coens, I'd try to put them on Deadpool, if they're really going to try to spin off Ryan Reynolds character from Wolverine. I know it's not as big and bold as Superman... but I'd rather see It's Superman put in the hands of Alfonso Cuaron.
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I understand the Superman-appropriate period feel the Coen's could channel from the examples given but I really don't understand beyond that why they are such an ideal fit here. They are more than capable of whatever they set their minds to but it certainly doesn't seem like the home run marriage to material it's being suggested as?
Also...is the suggestion that the Coen's need a hit or De Haven or someone else? I read this a couple of times and either I'm too tired for proper comprehension or it simply isn't clear what is being said.
Superman Returns suffered most from the tragic miscasting of Lois Lane (agency/publicist driven casting at its near worst). Bosworth is just fine but she was not even close to appropriate for the role. The Luthor characterization was ok but Spacey wasn't really allowed to flex until the last part of the movie and their wasn't enough or enough of the right kind of bombast to go with the pathos - which wasn't all bad.
The "formula" of the Dark Knight will be aped for the next several years - it will be interesting to see how well and for how long Hollywood can discern the proper lessons about why it is so successful. -
Frankenstone, you simply don't get it. I won't argue with you. If you can't take fantasy concepts seriously, that's your thing.
Anyway. I say, give it to Mark Millar. For the love of Zod. The guy has shown so many times that he is the absolute master of superhero action, writing-wise. As for the Coens, I love their stuff, Big Lebowski is probably my favorite comedy of all time, but I don't think they are right for Superman. Every Coen Brothers movie is very much a Coen Brothers movie, and for all their beautiful landscapes, the characters are always Coen Brothers characters, who behave and act in a slightly surreal, extremely stylized way that has no place in the DC Universe. What this requires is someone who can make the big and crazy stuff completely real, without sacrificing the sense of grandeur. I hate to say it, because it seems too obvious, but...Peter Jackson? Only thinking, which for a fanboy without an audience is pretty much masturbation. But he did it pretty well for the LOTR movies, and King Kong, whatever its failings, certainly showed that he can do a cool looking city. On the Smallville side, Heavenly Creatures' portrayal of New Zealand small town life seems like a pretty cool parallel to a slightly period little Kansas town. Plus I've suddenly realized that Kate Winslet really needs to play some kind of comic book heroine--she's totally got the steel and playfulness for Lois Lane. -
Sep 17, 2008 12:33:53 AM CDT
I still say you toss something into the Sun
by dracula_wants_the_amulet
That turns it Red like Kryptons Sun and Superman becomes the only being on earth without superpowers while everyone man and beast alike are strong as hell. Think "Y: The Last Man" That or you chunk some Kyptonite into it and it turns green and Supes is normal now. The Villains go all out knowing Supes can't stop them.
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Do it as such: Rachel McAdams or Winona Ryder as Lois. In the first scene get some shit out of the way with a bang to wake the audience up: Show a REAL FIGHT SCENE between Superman and some small-time villain from his Rogues Gallery, then have him confess to Lois that he is Superman, and they go and make love in Earth orbit. ROLL OPENING CREDITS. Brainiac is the main villain, and it turns out that he's behind the creation of Jason; he reached out from wherever and synthesized a Kryptonian embryo as a sleeper weapon against Kal-El, the embryo was placed in Lois or whatever to make her pregnant and make her carry to term. I know it's weird, but you have to deal with this shit somehow if the kid is going to go. Lois and Clark are trying to get Jason acclimated to her new relationship as her marriage to Richard is breaking up, but all hell breaks loose. Brainiac attacks Earth, kidnaps Jason and Lois. Superman has to head into space and hook up with Earth Green Lantern John Stewart, who calls in the GL Corps, who are authorized to use "lethal force" against Brainiac. Superman and the GLC head back to Earth and take on Brainiac with the help of Lex; in the process, Richard dies saving Lois and Jason from Brainiac. In the end, Jason imitates Chris Kent from Geoff Johns' "Last Son;" he flies and dispatches Brainiac, but has to go with him into some unknowable void. Bye bye Jason. Hello Lois and Clark together, grieving but together. Hello soft reboot, and hello Green Lantern solo franchise.
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have somewhere around a hundred thousand oscars to their name (someone double check my math). If studios still wont give them creative freedom, im sure them screwing up another superman movie will
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Ever since I saw Hudsucker Proxy and it was clearly a golden age Clark Kent movie.
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It's great if ya got it, but sucks to only be able to use half of it (sometimes).
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I had many problems with Singer's movie, but I gotta say that the biggest problem I had with it -- He reveals that the kid is Superman's son by having the boy kill someone.WTF?! How is that a good decision?
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I am on the fringe, sort of non-fan of the Coens. However, this is a fabulous idea. This book looks great, and the last movie being so leaden/moribund, you these guys could really do it. What a great idea. Perhaps it will go into the hall of fame of "What If's" but maybe it will come to fruition and we could rejoice....
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And I think the studio wants franchise. It'd be a great one-off. I love the idea -- and it would be great to see them play the heroics straight, for the most part, without their brand of subdued wackiness. Fun to think about, Drew.
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I cant see the Coens wanting to make a superman film though... but what do i know.
I was so excited for Singer's Superman movie, there was no way i was ever going to dislike it, but as much as i do like it, i see all the flaws it has. -
He was excellent as Superman. I actually liked Superman Returns. Some people wanna see all kinds of mindless action ( which is great ) but forget about the soul of the characters. I would not mind Rachel McAdams as Ms. Lane!
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The article made me sad, really. That's just too awesome to ever, ever happen. We've probably got the same chances of getting a movie where Carla Gugino, Vida Guerra, and Scarlet Johanson bikini oil-wrestle. In bikinis made of bacon.
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Robert Rodriguez, DJ Carusso or Zack Snider for directors?
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"...led to you guys redeveloping the property..."
you have got to be kidding me. does he honestly believe that he had anything to do with a decision like this? pump yer breaks man, AICN is cool, and people probably listen to harry, but he's gotta come back down to earth. -
Superman is sidelined for large chunks of the story because De Haven wants to focus on the crime element ie. Luthor and all his wheelings and dealings. So I can see where Moriarty is going with this, it's kind of like Dark Knight version of Superman. Sidelining the main character is okay up to a point, but you can see when the author seems more interested in the villains than the hero.
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Sylvester Stallone for director!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that would Rock My Balls Out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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It a tricky superhero to make interesting. Not having pussy Spacey as Luthor would help a lot.
How about Alex de la Iglesia's Superman? -
I don't understand how some of you actually 'hate' Superman... He's the fuckin' Man-O-Steel, he's like Jesus, if Jesus was toast with butter and Supes was a BLT Panini with a side of kick ass. I understand how it is more easy to identify with a character who has great flaws and tribulations in order to be the 'ideal' person they set out to be. But, come on, how hard would it be, to be almost God but not quite so? I think Superman embodies the most grand ideas of humanity, while still recognizing the short-comings of any individual.
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... is that it was more a sequel to Donner's superman/superman2 than it was a new superman movie - it took all of its cues from the Donner movies, not the comics - i actually like it - but i wouldve rather have gotten a new superman movie - instead of a sequel to a 30 yr old property
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Sep 17, 2008 1:02:41 AM CDT
I don't think the Coen brothers would do it.
by stereotypical evil archer
But the Coen brothers do love deconstructing and rebuilding American myths. How would they tear him apart and put him back together?Brilliant idea Moriarty, but why don't you offer your services to write a spec?
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Bosworth is a blue blood and a little kid compared to Louis Lane. I mean today she's twenty-five yrs old. And the film came out two yrs ago so she was actually 22 when it was filmed. Point is Louis Lane is a women not a young little yuppie "gossip girl" or the new 90120 type. Secondly, the whole kid thing was atrocious. Laughable 1000%. I"d love to see the coens get this gig but the suits or brothers too probably wouldn't want to do it. Plus JJ is overated. Too bad Tommy Cruise had his issues when MI3 came out b/c that was JJ's best job thus far. Never watched Jenny Garners show but have watched Lost from season three on and, although I don't miss a show it's a total dick tease.
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I read the DeHaven book. As a devotee of that era of time and of the character's entire history I enjoyed it greatly and, you're right, it nailed a certain aspect of the character. Grounded him and fleshed him out, put the reader into his boots as it were.
BUT, the one thing the Superman film series doesn't need at this point (or ever) is a period piece. What better way to prove all of those cynics right who claim that Supes is a character past his prime, who has nothing valid to offer audiences today, who is a relevant as radio shows and soda jerks? Why, give us a 1930s era adventure, complete with a sepia-tone veneer to prove once and for all that this is your grandad's superhero.
No, there is no reason a talented screenwriter with their heart in the right place and a sense of the character's core - the things that have made Superman relevant for generations - can't bring the character to life for a new film set in a more or less contemporary timeframe. Balancing decades of continuity, spot-on characterization and spectacular action set pieces can be done (look at Spidey 2), we just need a creative team willing to give us straight, undiluted, unapologetic, unironic SUPERMAN.
(And having a director who doesn't slavishly follow the blueprint of Donner's original film would help too. Ahem.) -
Sep 17, 2008 1:10:51 AM CDT
Superman's Villain; an Alaskan Governor running for V.P.
by stereotypical evil archer
Lots of real estate in Alaska, Mr. Luthor.
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We'd have never had to put up with Superman Returns. The illiterati on this site wield FAR TOO much power. JJ's script was as least INTERESTING, which Superman Returns WAS NOT! Any oddities or inconsistencies in the mythology could have been ironed out by a passionate director. In short, Drew you may not have been wrong to dislike the script but the way you went about killing it and rejoicing over its corpse was totally wrong.
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Okay, they are going to reboot the fucker. But I am so tired of every film looking like the last. Superman stops Lex Luthor's attempt to create available real estate. That's was the problem with Singer's film, it was so much of an homage to Donner's that it was almost almost an exact copy of it.
What they should do is start off a new Superman film with Superman already established in Metropolis. He's saving people from fires, he's stopping bank robberies, so on and so forth. Then Doomsday comes to town, they fight, and Superman kicks the bucket at the end of the film, with Brainiac coming to Earth, his weapon Doomsday having accomplished it's mission.
Second one has Supes come back and defeat Brainiac, while setting up a corporate/weapons manufacturer Lex Luthor for the third film.
I just don't want to have see the next Superman film with the SAME villian, the SAME plot, and the SAME origin story.
We know where he came from, we've seen it a thousand times. There's no need to "reimagine" it. Just start later....like when Superman has been doing his thing for a few years. It's one of the big rule of screenwriting....get in late. -
Mori don't puss out and take back what u said about JJ, his flick sounded like a disaster waiting to happen. it was a joke! Lex as a kryptonian??? COME ON!! Now the Cohen bros doing a Supes film? If they are willing to do it, then I said fuck yea! I doubt it, but I'm all in, especially if they can make it fun. but if you want some bros behind the cam, the freakin Wachowskis should do it. Matrix aside, Speed racer was fun as hell! I had my doubts, but upon watching the flick, I has highly entertained and can't wait for the Blu Ray. The W Bros will make the film what it should be, pleasing to the eyes, make it freakin big, and also a lot of fun... or maybe I'm just too high on snapple.... yea... definitely the snapple...
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Don't put these guys on a fucking pedestal. And you do realize that NCFOM was an adaptation of a BOOK right? But honestly I don't think they would be good for Superman.
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Does anyone want to see Superman written by an anti-American, Anti-superhero writer? Well then I guess Millar is your man...
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Saying that anyone is "above" doing a comic based film would be insinuating that comics are somehow less legitimate than other forms of literature or film, and you would have to be a complete moron to think that.
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Sorry about the inadverdent Enter key stroke, but what I wanted to expand upon is this notion about paying homage to past incarnations of the character. The Superman that was created in the 30's was based on 30's ideals and lifestyle. As were the latter versions in comics and TV. Donner's vision was based on the time - the 70's and the current revolution in thinking and values during that time. The problem I had with Singer's movie was that he was trying to recreate that same Donner-vision in the current climate of the world. Clark Kent as a buffoon? It felt out of place, and just lacked originality. Look at how Burton's Batman is totally the opposite of Nolan's. I don't want a Superman based on a novel, a movie, or a TV show. I want a Superman who arrives in today's world. What would/could happen? The Coens - eh, just because it's the Coens, doesn't mean it's going to be good. Whomever takes the reins, I just hope that they have their own vision.
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...adapting a NOVEL? Could we please get a feature film adaptation of the Superman COMIC BOOK for once? Any of them? C'mon...
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What the hell is this crap, M?!? You string us along and deposit us at the corner of Delusional Fan Boy Wank & Psychotic Fantasy. The Coens today are a litmus test to see if someone is being a stupid film nerd incapable of discerning sh*t from Shinola: If someone thinks No Country is anything but crap; they're clueless! A Coen Supes flick would make Ang Lee's Hulk look like Dark Knight and X-Men 2 rolled into one and deep-fried into a tasty snack.Go back to sleep and refrain from posting until the fever breaks, mmmkay? kthxbai!
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Mor, you said that a Superman movie should tap into the zeitgeist, and you're right. THE DARK KNIGHT is totally immersed in the zeitgeist.
On the other hand, I don't see how adapting de Haven's IT'S SUPERMAN! taps into the zeitgeist. The book is set in the 1930s and is more of an exercise in nostalgia than the zeitgeist. We've already seen Singer wallowing in his own nostalgia in SUPERMAN RETURNS and that didn't work.
The closest Superman project that consciously addresses the zeitgeist right now is Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's ALL-STAR SUPERMAN.
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Jesus, man, you are a wasted!
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I had an idea for a Superman Returns sequel. Wrote a few ideas down. Some of the elements:
The beginning of the movie has Superman defending the Earth from asteroids. I wanted to tie the asteroids into something, either from SR or from later on in the movie. Maybe the asteroids are the remains of New Krypton, maybe not. Nevertheless we get an opening hook full of action and excitement, and we see Superman punching and throwing and making mincemeat of asteroids. We see Superman at his most powerful. Maybe he has to rescue a damaged space station or space shuttle...something to add double jeopardy to the mix Lex Luthor is pissed. He's playing the victim card and trying to convince the world that Superman is bad, that if Superman ever turned evil he could easily destroy our very way of life. Maybe there are more Supermen waiting to take over the world when the time is right. Maybe Kal-El is a mere scout to gather intelligence. Luthor comes up with many ideas to prey upon our current paranoia pertaining to people bent on destroying the western world, ala Terrorists. We get the military on the verge of perfecting AI to use in their vehicles as a means to save soldiers' lives, with the real-world Predator UAV as the prototype experiment to that idea. The villain will be Braniac who manages to take control of this AI to use against Superman, and so the climatic battle is Superman against Braniac-controlled military vehicles that turn Metropolis into a battleground. It obviously needs a lot of work, but I had a few quiet scenes involved I liked. -
Kal El crash lands in the front yard of country bumkins Ma an' Pa Kent. They adopt the little orphan with strange super powers as Clark Kent and raise him on a healthy dose of pancakes, corn muffins, and good ol' American Christian Conservative values. But when Clark leaves Smallville for the big city to do God's work, nothing the Kents taught him prepares him for his first encounter with an African-American person... Starring Jeff Bridges as the SuperDude
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Dude that was funny as hell!
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This just traumatized me. Seriously I almost died. Too good to be true indeed. I feel like all film just became one giant spiral leading into this moment of the Coens directing Superman. How could you put such a glorious thought in my head when you know it won't deliver. WHY. This is probably the way old Ben felt when Alderaan(did I spell that right) was blown up. You go on with your excercises Drew I need to sit down.
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Come on guys, it ain't rocket science.
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...for a shared cinematic universe. Superman isn't CAPTAIN AMERICA. He's not gonna get frozen in the '40s and thaw out in the present-day so he can hang out with Batman and the rest of the JLA. (Or live 60+ years and see everyone he loves die so he can hang out with Batman and the rest of the JLA.)
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Every time I watch Hudsucker Proxy, I look at Jennifer Jason Leigh and I see exactly what Lois Lane should have been.
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I've also put some thought into a superman sequel. 1) do a JLU movie where superman is "killed" by omega beams in the pre-credit sequence, and his death forces the other hearoes to band together. It ends up as a Darkseid invasion, and his chief lieutenant is, you guessed it, Superman. After some Wonder Woman vs. Superman fights, Batman shows up, defeats Supes and turns him good again. The finale is like the first season finale of JLU with sups unlaoding on darkseid. "I live in a world that's like paper to me, always afraid that I'll hurt someone. But you can take it, can't you. What we hae here is a rare chance for me to cut loose." 2) A Superman Returns sequel about Metallo where he sees Superman and his son as invaders, the first of a group who want to enslave the earth. Metallo kidnaps Lois, kills her son (or her husband) and forces Superman to snap, realeasing all he's got into an angry superfight against a giant Metallo. Also, Lex comes back from his island and forms Luthorcorp, becoming popular by helping Superman take down metallo. At the end of the movie, the kid, richard white, and "Donner lex" are gone, leaving us with Superman, Clark, Lois, Jimmy, Perry, and Corporate Lex, nicvely setting up a franchise. sorry I don't know how to brak this into paragraphs. My pick for metallo is Michael Keaton, starting off sane but gradually turning crazy and ripping off half of rubber skin to reveal the metal skull beneath.
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Sep 17, 2008 1:59:33 AM CDT
And if Steven Spielberg would please do THE FANTASTIC FOUR from
by headgeek
that would make me happy.
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If you are going to give it to brothers give it to the Wachowski brothers. No one will make a movie as good as Singer's sequel would be. It seems like the director will end up being someone like Leterrier, McG, or Tony Scott
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Sep 17, 2008 2:09:26 AM CDT
I agree with Harry too. Good comic ideas for everyone!
by industrykiller!
Huzzah!
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...was fine and dandy in the sense that the only thing it had going for it was nostalgia. It was a love song to the Donner version, but except for the special effects, it was inferior in every way. Brandon Routh was fine, but was no Christopher Reeve. Bosworth was a lackluster Lois Lane. Franklin Lagellan was no Mr. Perry. Kevin Spacey was Gene Hackman but even Hackman was no Luthor. We need serious overhaul. I'm talking a reimagination, a big "fuck what any of you pussy boys think about Superman," redoing. Fuck the John William's score. Fuck the folksy Smallville bullshit. Give me something fresh. Flight...unhinged. Don't make me believe a man can fly. Make me believe a universe can.
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Don't know if it's a movie, but it's a fucking amazing comic.
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The head of fucking Warner Bros. didn't go on the record attributing the success of The Dark Knight to it being "dark". Performances, incredible script, personal yet EPIC direction, great pacing and balancing of three dimensional characters? No fuck all of that....DARK!!!!! I might add these people are paid millions of dollars a year to do their jobs this badly.
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routh was perfectly cast-all it needs is some damn action!
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a Superman movie directed by...STEPHEN SOMMERS!!!!and starring...ALEC BALDWIN AS SUPERMAN!!!!with...DAVID KOECHNER AS LEX LUTHOR!!!See Mori? We can all spout off excellent (in my case, fucking genius) ideas. We are all movie nerds here and it's loads of fun. The only difference is I don't think my fun little imaginary dream story will actually infleunce anybody. It's cool to share great ideas like that Mori, and I'm glad you did, but do you have to be so arrogant. Cool your jets bro. You had a nerdgasm from your own idea and had to post it. It doesn't make you the all-knowing Critic who can ruin the production of an entire movie with one decently-written paragraph of snark and smugness.That being said, your idea is one of the coolest Superman movie visions I have ever heard, and if it ever happens (hmmm...) I will definitely go.I just wish you weren't such a cocky bitch every time you post this personal shit to the talkbackers.
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Just kidding. Now shut up about your dumb concepts. In closing, the Coens are smug a-holes and would probably cast Michael Keaton as Clark Kent. And they're not sfx/digital-tech directors, never were.
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http://tinyurl.com/68d5hw
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... far from. I'm not saying Warner WILL DO what I said. Dude, the odds of a Coen Bros. SUPERMAN are nil. I know that. It's a lovely dream, though, and as Warner makes their steps towards making a next film (something that's happening every day right now), I just wanted to throw an ideal out there, something positive. So often, we react to news, and when it's bad news, we react negatively. For once, I wanted to write a piece about what could be. There are hundreds of ways that a SUPERMAN film could be great. This is just one.
I'll say this, though... to all of you that logged on to say "NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK," you're wrong. The feedback I've already gotten via e-mail from at least five or six key players in the ongoing SUPERMAN saga, as well as the feedback over the years, more than confirms that people are listening. To you as well as to me. That's why I've always hated people who just use talkback to smear poop on the walls. You want to share your ideal, what vision of Superman you'd love to see? Do so. This is a great place for that conversation. I'm sure many of you have better ideas than me. So share them. Let Warner know that you give a shit. Let Legendary know you want a great Superman film next time. Use the platform you have, whatever it is, and let's talk about it.
Or you could just call me names if it makes you feel better. Whatever. -
I haven't read "It's Superman!" but if it's anything like the brilliant All-Star Superman, then bring it on. What I love about ASS is how it is classic Superman, but modernized. All the vital components are intact, Supes' character and struggles are what they should be, Lex's hatred of Superman is defined perfectly...plus it's just plain FUN as fuck! Some of it is borderline cheese, and some of it crosses into the fantasy realm, but isn't that what Superman is, ultimately...an awesome fantasy about a Man who can fly?
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If I thought most talkbackers were idiots, then you really confirmed it for me, buddy. It's bad enough to think Superman Returns "sucked" cuz there wasn't enough "splosions and shit", but when you have the outright ignorance to trash the greatest sitcom of all time, I Love Lucy...then I know for sure, it's official, you've got no fucking taste and none of us can help you. Yes, idiotic talkbackers, everything before you were born SUCKED...and everything coming up next year is gonna' RULE. Then you get hit by a truck and die. The End. (fingers crossed)
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Did I ever say Warner WILL DO your idea?Nope. I checked. Not that you yourself still made claims that your influence was there. So it IS possible after all? Stick with a story man.And I'm not getting on you for posting an idea. It's a REALLY COOL idea, and your thoughts concerning the directors and the tone of the book are spot on. It's not that I don't care either. I respect your love and knowledge of cinema a great deal, and if I wanted to hear someone's thoughts on a film, I usually check in here to see if you have any. What I was trying to tell you is lately, a majority of these personal type articles (the Buzzkill articles and such) just seem to be opportunities for you to share with us lowly TBers your tremendous gift of common logic and your influence over the film industry. It's bored, and it makes you seem really stuck-up. It's also just something to consider when interacting directly with the patrons of your site. It's usually good PR to not be an arrogant jackass. Share the movie love of course. Keep that stuff coming all day. But leave the personal, holier-than-thou bull shit at home. I'm not bitter or anything. Just tired of sifting through the muck to get to the good stuff.
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I was just about to say something about the All Star Superman comic but you beat me to the punch. I'm not sure they should go with the whole arc, since it's a bit scattered and nearly every issue works as a stand-alone story, but that WOULD be a perfect spot to get an idea of tone and style for a really fun Superman movie. Kudos to you for announcing that.Now we just have to figure out who would be talented enough to direct such a Superman flick?
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They want it dark and gritty,something The Character is not.Donners Superman is the best there is..and probally ever will be.No need for yet another reboot because Returns was a reboot and with smallville why tell the origin again,everybody knows it.Superman just doesnt work in todays society,because everyone wants The Dark Knight....even the next Iron Man will be dark..watch and see.
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just don't get Superman. Have a little more faith in people. I love the Pixar movies, but I don't expect their next project to be "dark and gritty" just because everybody's heads exploded with delight when Dark Knight came out. The entire film industry isn't going to the "dark side" due to the success of one film. Different projects call for different styles and I highly doubt many filmmakers out there all want to mimic a specific tone.Then again, the creation of a film is also dependent on the movie companies with the big executives huh? Guess it's up to us to tell them The Dark Knight worked because it was dark and gritty and that's what Batman is, the next Superman movie will be good if he is bashing a big monster and being a general do-gooder to all because that's who Superman is. Now get out there and get busy movie fans! And believe this: there are way more fanatic movie critics and fans in this country than you think. People are capable of asking for intelligent, cohesive cinema, and all we have to do is get loud and tell them what we want to get it.
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I've had that book sitting on my shelf for a long time now and kept putting off reading it so I could read depressing books about the economy and nuclear devastation and religious fundamentalism. I guess this book will cheer me up, right? Sounds good to me. I need cheering up. Fuck it, the world needs cheering up. A fun, non-gritty Superman is definitely the way to go.
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If ANY of you think a reboot at this stage is a good idea, go take a gun and shoot yourselves.
Hulk proves that an quick turn over reboot will not work, and it won't work here. SR was nowhere near as bad as you fuckers try to make out, and it's still a hundred times better than Superman 3&4.
A Singer sequel wouldn't be so bad, and it clearly set up a lot of potential, but Warners are more idiotic than Fox. Any illusions they have that they can turn Superman into Batman are madness.
The character isn't that deep, haunted and tortured. JJ's ideas were insane, and I've never rated him, McG, well the less said about him the better. The one person that needs removing from superman is Jon Peters, that man will kill it forever.
When the new film is out, one thing it absolutely does not need, is origin, it's been done, we all know the Donner film, and frankly wasting time on an origin film AGAIN certainly won't attract the viewing public. I seriously doubt we'll ever get a film you nerds will like, because nerds only like what is in their head, not whats on screen.
Mori is right when learning lessons from TDK, cast it well, write it well, its something Hollywood can't do, because noone knows how to write anymore you're left with bland teen flicks, and crazy Justice League Creek. What would studio's do without sequels and comic books? -
Sep 17, 2008 3:23:41 AM CDT
"The feedback I've already gotten via e-mail from at least five
by newc0253
I thought your editorial was fine, Mori, but that phrase is gonna become the next AICN catchphrase for a while, filling that void left by 'skinny tomboy beanpole', Harry's zillion myspace friends, and so many others.
I hope a Coen bros Superman gets made, i'd really prefer someone to do Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman run, it would be out of the park, but i fear this talkback will be best remembered for your little turn of phrase just now. -
This is a really hard one for me but what about someone like Darren Aronofsky? I know he's already busy with another reboot but he seems to have great promise. I think I'm a little too tired to really start thinking out of the box like Mori at this point in the night.
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He'd be perfect to work with the Coens. Fingers crossed that the dream of seeing a Superman film be the equal of the original cartoons becomes a reality. It has to be Bruce though. That would be one massive movie and finally propel Bruce into the megastardom he deserves but probably doesn't want (and, for those that haven't seen it he's great in 'Burn Notice' btw - we don't get it here in the UK so i downloaded the lot and i couldn't believe how good it was). This rumour is just too good to be true McWeeney.
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about superman.
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...Back when the Burton shit was going down. They are a perfect choice. Don't know shit about this book, perhaps because most moriarty articles fit in the Tl;Dr bucket, but It's gotta be a better choice than all the other shit they've thrown against the wall in the last few decades.
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I love the Evil dead movies as much as the next guy but...Have you seen Bruce Campbell lately? He's not exactly sporting a superhuman-esque physique. I would still love to see him in some big movie shit, but not as Superman.
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Moriarty, couldn't you have just sent him a card.
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... I'm not saying it's a rumor, Workshed. It's not. It's a wish. It's an editorial. If you think the Coens are a terrible choice, why? Or if there's a better choice for source material. I hope Warner Bros is considering a stack of options that ranges from "safe and predictable" to "totally absolutely insane." I may have hated THE CELL with a passion, but I really dug THE FALL this year, and the guy up above who mentioned Tarsem is on to something. He's just as tech savvy as any blockbuster director working today, and he really does have an amazing eye.
I see a lot of you don't like period at all. You want a modern Superman. Is that what All-Star Superman is? Modern setting, classic style? -
It's big of him to publicly admit second thoughts about savagely murdering that one Superman script. And if you don't believe his review and the resulting shitstorm killed that version of the movie you weren't following it then. It was pretty clear.
I can't imagine the Coen Brothers would have any interest in directing a Superman movie even for a zillion dollars, since they are busy making Coen Brothers movies. It's funny that everybody always wants to draft somebody that probaly has no interest in doing these nerd movies - "why can't we get Sydney Lumet to direct AvP3?" - but I guess I never would've thought Christopher Nolan would do a Batman movie either. So who knows. Let's get Werner Herzog on Daredevil 2 right away.
If you ask me though the Barbarian Brothers are the better brother team to do this one. Or the Dark Brothers. -
The guy is hideously one-note and none of his characters have a distinctive voice. It's the same shit over and over in his books, and giving him the writing reigns will kill Superman as a movie property for another 20 years.
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... I'm going to rewrite this to instead be a piece about Lumet on AVP3. Vern, you're a genius.
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Donner nailed it so beautifully in Superman, particularly the elegiac Smallville sequences with Glenn Ford and the wheatfields. So we got the perfect origin story. Then, in II, we got the all-out action sequences we missed from the original. If Donner had junked the Luthor missile-grabbing story from the original Superman and included the Zod storyline instead then there would be no need for another Superman movie ever. I just can't see, in this day and age of empty, soulless, uninspired summer hackery, anyone coming up with a vision to top Donner's. Certainly Singer's film was an abomination from start to finish.
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Sounds like a good book, but do we really need another Superman origins film?
If Superman Returns didn't have enough Crash-bang-wallop for you then why not do the Doomsday storyline? Sh1tloads of super-heros wrecking up the joint, then the big daddy showdown with a payoff that will give the studio execs the grit that they feel they have to inject. End the film with the funeral and then an epilogue with the four are they/aren't they Supermen donning the S.
I'd say Zack Snyder to direct but after Watchmen I think he'll step away from comic book properties for a bit. Same for Raimi. I know this is a major contridiction but how's about the Wachowskis? -
the 30s would be perfect to insert the perfect combination of action, whimsy, wonder, and fun. Like a live action version of the Max Fleischer cartoons. And here's a director idea:What about Kerry Conran? The guy responsible for Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
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Zack Snyder? No way. When will today's directors learn that action sequences in slow-motion are not exciting?
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Brad Bird. He's never done live action but that would be some way to kick it off. didn't Iron Giant have an especially 50s feel? That could work really well for Superman.
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Man, I hear that. I was almost running on the spot during 300 to get the fight-scenes to play quicker. Still, big hopes for Watchmen.
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It has some modern cultural references, but with the characters and fun, crazy action of the classic Superman. You should really buy the comics or the trade paperbacks. The first TPB is already out, the second (and final, I believe) will be released in Feb. '09. Actually, the final comic in the series (issue #12) comes out today (Wednesday).
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That's what we really want to see the Coens do.
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Sep 17, 2008 4:24:18 AM CDT
Great piece Moriarty, btu I would go for your buddyy...
by andy dufresne
Frank Darabont, shooting a script he wrote based on grant Morrison's All Star Superman would make me a very happy camper indeed.
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a coen's superman could be great, that's a nice idea
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Brad Bird would be a great choice... After all, he's done one of the greatest superhero movie with The incredibles... But maybe he's bored with superheroes now, and he's busy with his "1906" so I don't know. What I know for sure is that he would have been waaaay better than Miller for a Spirit movie.
Another choice, almost opposite, would be of course McTiernan. I'd love to see him filming people smashing buildings and so on. -
Nolans, Coens, Wachowskis, Hughes? Wayans? LOL. I wish i had a brother who was interested in filmmaking too...
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financial disasters, economic depression, rise of neo-fascism! superman where are you?!
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He's standing in a Bread line, guess the man of seel doesnt get too eat today.....aauhh socialism at its best.
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Directed by Neill Blomkamp
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You know there are actually a couple of Superman comics from about that era that have Superman doing exactly that.
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Got no opinion on Superman, but I would love to watch a fucking big budget blockbuster by the Coens. (I also would like to watch a horrormovie by the Coens.)
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Sep 17, 2008 5:16:02 AM CDT
I know I just said I don't have an opinion on Superman...
by derlanghaarige
...but please keep Zack Snyder away from it. Yes, I hate 300 that much that I ignore the unexpected good DOTD-remake and already gave up on Watchmen.
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Donner ain't dead - he still makes movies - bring him back. Bring back Brandon Routh, cos no-one else looks remotely like Superman. And if DeHaven's Superman story is the classic then that's the one it should be.
Some brilliant ideas on this board - the Coens are interesting but they won't do it and as far as I can see, they have no trouble making regular movies exactly how they want to.
Darabont has the right sensibility and character to take on such a property, and after Shawshank I'd give him any property he wanted. Kerry Conran doing a Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow-type movie is an exciting idea. Few candidates fit better than Brad Bird, but I think he'll miss the total control that animation gives and I'd hate to pull him away from the drawing board at Pixar. -
Unless they can find a wildcard director like Nolan. Who could have seen The Dark Knight coming watching Insomnia? I can't imagine what the Coens might do. I'm sceptical. I'd love to hear a proper honest reaction from Singer. Thusfar all he's been saying is "George Lucas-isms" which obviously do his image no good. I think Singer should do a really good (non superhero) sci-fi movie, at the very least to win some of the geeks back.
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key players in the industry reading through aicn talkbacks??? that's hilarious... and very very sad if it's even remotely true... if they're looking for inspiration here then moving make is really in the shitter
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He's 40 years old, so what? Ironman had a 40-something Downey Jr. as Tony Stark, why can't Caviezel?
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he simply just can't act.
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Great, let's give Lois superpowers and turn Jimmy into Doomsday...that wouldn't suck at all...
More people liked Superman Returns than those who didn't. As I've said already, the biggest problem was getting people to actually see it. Superman just isn't popular.
There is absolutely no reason to reboot, none at all. So some of the hardcore fanboys didn't like it. No offense but so what? The movie wasn't aimed at them.
We are a minority. The so-called geeks I mean. The majority liked the film...more people just needed to see it, that's all. Rebooting now would be the worst thing Warners could do and thus far I haven't read or heard anything that has convinced me that starting again is the way to go.
Comic book fans bitched and moaned about Superman having a son. Now I'll admit, the way Jason was introduced wasn't ideal, but the concept of Superman having a son opens up a lot of possibilities.
People are sick of Luthor as the main villain so that rules out "That's Superman." What the next film needs is a bigger threat. Something that will push Superman to the limit of his abilities and beyond. Everything that's needed is there from Superman Returns.
Routh is the most popular Superman since Reeve. Losing him would be a disaster. Singer has a potential Oscar winner on his hands with Valkyrie and Returns did something that Smallville, the comics or the animated series failed to do. It gave Superman to a new generation.
People cheered when Jason threw that piano. The geeks may not like it but the casual movie goer did. Singer also got a standing ovation at Comic Con after the movie came out.
It's not like everyone hated the movie it's just that the minority has a louder collective voice.
Look what happened to Incredible Hulk. It made a little more than Ang Lee's film but nowhere near enough to justify the reboot. Superman doesn't need a reboot. It's numbers were solid if not spectacular, Routh is a good Superman and the movie was well liked by those who saw it.
Warners should be trying to build on that. Starting again from scratch could prove to be a disaster. -
Not a bad idea, actually. Most times you hear suggestions for directors from the peanut gallery it's people shouting "GIVE MICHEAL BAY A SHOT!"
For those people, here's a friendly tip:
Somebody needs to tell your mom to up the dose on your Ritalin and make sure the special needs counselor spends some extra time with you on your crayon drawings to make sure you feel special and not like a slobbering retard (which you are, make no mistake) for actually suggesting that Bay gets his cum-and-coke stained shaking junkie hands anywhere near the script for Superman.
You'll get your Transformers 2 which you can then masturbate wildly to as you watch the big explosions and Megan Fox's ass stand in for her acting...in the meantime shut the fuck up and let the grown-ups talk.
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I want some of what you've been smoking.
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Sep 17, 2008 6:00:55 AM CDT
Uhm, in my theater, people didn't cheer when Jason threw the pia
by darthbakpao
they gasped and seemingly clueless how Jason got the power. Why? because the MAJORITY of the audiences didn't have the connection to the previous Donner's movies.
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Would dominate.
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Yeah, it's from left field, and that may be what WB wants, but it wouldn't work. Then again, I actually loved Superman Returns. I cant believe anyone would actually suggest that it ended up being just as "bad" as what Abrams's story would have been. I don't want WB to pull from left field. I want them to pitch another one straight across the plate so Singer can hit another home run. I'm still kind of shocked and pissed that SR got so much hatred, by fans and commonfolk alike. I'm pissed that WB probably won't let Singer continue. This is just how I felt in the aftermath of Hulk. That movie is genius, and the box office and reviews ended up killing any potential for a contuation. We ended up getting Incredible Hulk, which feels like, and is, and attempt to apologize for all that "boring talking."
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Superman Returns was the foundation for what could be an -increasingly- successful jumpstart of the franchise. Superman is not an easy sell or an easy movie to make. Look at the trainwrecks of ideas put forward by the big names previous to it. God knows why Moriarty is trying to apologise now.
Singer/Superman is a good combination and the best hope for the movies anytime soon. Throw that out and moviegoers will be even less interested in what comes next. Build on it, and you just might have something. -
I'll hook you up with my supplier.
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http://tinyurl.com/6fh92x
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It wasn't a great movie. It was good, but not great. It had problems with visual effects, story, pacing, score....but as a whole it was still a very good reintroduction of the character.
Warners looked at the box office numbers and thought they were disappointing. And they were when compared to Pirates or Star Wars.
But that's the problem right there. Warner's expectations were far too high. At the time, Superman simply wasn't popular. The movie was released during the World Cup and Pirates 2 came out a week later and broke records. There was no way that any Superman movie would have made $500 Million+ at the time.
Warners failed to realise that the interest in Superman simply wasn't there. Singer's film has changed that. People are interested in Superman again and now Warners want to throw that out and start again? Does Not Compute. -
I do hope you're not referring to me, good sir. But as many people know, Bay was mooted to direct Superman for all of five minutes. Then Singer got the job. Bay may yet get his fingers on it again. I am no fan of Bay, although if you have any Ritalin going, I'd kindly take it off your hands...
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...was flawed I say, however there were some beautiful imagery and moments, however it was very melancholic, the action whilst well shot and edited was very samey (lifting something big, bigger, biggest!) and yes a real lack of fun. No spark at all between Lois and Clark- compare them to Reeve and Kidder- just don't measure up, no feel for Metropolis and so much screen time spent on building up to Lex's plan the auidence was wondering where Supes had gone. Don't even get me started on Spacey as LL, or Bosworth as Lois- although I think Routh did a fine job.
So what next for Supes then? Well a Smallville would have worked three years ago when the show was at its peak but not anymore, I am not sure rebooting it so soon after Superman Returns is a good idea either, they should either make a sequel to Superman Returns with more bish, bash, bosh but I am not sure how they would get past the kid storyline or wait 20 years and start again...I love Superman 1 and 2, love the comics, enjoy chiming into Smallville at times and have the animated show on DVD so am in no rush to see Supes on the big screen, I would rather see it done RIGHT, and if that means waiting 20 years, then fuck it, I shall wait!!! -
No thanks. A new Superman pic, fine, but stick to the established mythos. I don't want an Anakin Skywalker treatment for Kal-el. Abrams script had Kal as the chosen one in some ancient prophecy, and his evil cousins Bo and Luke-el and uncle Jesse-el coming to Earth to kill him after leading a civil war on Krypton in which the south won. That wouldn't have mande anyone happy. Plus, Supes suit was alive and lived in a can.
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...Was already knee deep in hollywood by virtue of taking on both a remake AND a serious Robbin Williams movie in one big move. I can't imagine why Nolan would be attracted to Superman though. Batman has so many ingredients that are attractive to stylists and storytellers. Superman has...A big budget to play with?
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Mori, its great that so many influential people are interested in your thoughts. So why waste time arguing with the dregs when so many latter-day Shakespeares are emailing you?
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No, seriously, what about him? I thought we were pondering directors who could make a GOOD film out of this material?
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You may be closer to the source than most of us Mori, but could you just refresh our memories as to how much affect your thoughts have had on big films, film-makers and the industry beyond receiving emails from some key players.
Don't get defensive, I'm genuinely interested in knowing how much you and aintitcool has affected big productions over the years, so Snakes On A Plane doesn't count in my eyes - if we really had any affect on that at all.
As for "Now we’ve made amends" - Love to hear what the Coens think about that. Do they know? -
Anything comendable about that picture derived from the Donner films. Routh looked the part but was borderline satisfactory in acting terms. Jesus, watching him act felt like being a parent seeing their kid in their first school play.
The kid angle was dire. And I can't believe they repeated the Lex Luthor property blunder of the Donner film. The infantile Lex Luthor sidekicks was wince inducing as well.
Metropolis, which was bursting with life in the donner films, was completely souless in the singer film.
Singer got his shot and he seriously blew it. I like all his other films, especially The Usual Suspects but Warners should give it to someone else. Oh and The Amazing G - that's how I felt with all the Star Wars prequels, Hulk and Superman Returns. -
I was just talking with my 16 year old son the other night about how 'Returns' only had glimpses of getting the character right. Saving the plane was about the best representation of the character in that whole film. The coloring of the costume though reminded me of bad Supes from Superman III and just didnt fit the character right in my mind. Superman is about optimism and doing what's right, even if its not an easy choice. Maybe that's why people today are having such a hard time getting the character right. As a society, we've changed ever so slightly from being a country of 'Might for right' to being a country of 'Might makes right'. The character of Superman at his best is a moral compass for society. He is supposed to be larger then life and have a brightness about him that is the polar opposite of Batman.
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Returns was a fucking disaster. It's not at all like Batman Begins. Batman Begins is more like Bourne. It built on video. Word got around that it was really great. That and the tabloid headline grabbing overdose of Ledger saw The Dark Knight open to large expectations. Returns just further and further cements its position as a fucking abortion. I'm not a superhero fan. I'm regular folk. Regardless of its treatment of the character, Returns was just a shitty, ugly, poorly thrown together pile of crap that was a bore to sit through.
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I would like to see the Coen brothers do it.
You need to reinvent Superman, yet not that much.
1. Get rid of the Clark Kent nineteen fifties persona.
2. No Lex Luthor for once.
3. If you cant' get Coen Brothers, how about George Miller or Spike Jonze?
Make it huge, make it fun. -
Back when Burton was screwing WB out of mad cash during his tenure on superman, King Vidor and the Coens were my only choice. Simply because never being a fan of the comics, I always pictured Superman as a period piece, a total retro cartoony thing. But hey, hire Mark Millar and Len Wiseman and get My Chemical Romance to do the soundtrack for all I care.
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...Would never, ever, ever happen. I mean, isn't WB busy raping Jonze at the moment? And Gondry made a jack black film no one wanted to see? I still both of them could make a really good, fun and adventurous Superman film.
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Get that crazy Russian director, Timur Bekmambetov, to do it he is fuckin nuts and visually it would be amazing at least.
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The audience I saw 'Returns' with didn't utter one peep of excitement throughout the entire film and filed out in complete silence at the end. That film died on the big screen.
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Brilliant idea! I've always wanted to see a Superman movie from that era and the Coens would be an ideal choice. Now they just need to cast Parker Posey as Lois Lane -- the no-brainer choice Singer should have made instead of Kate Bosworth who looks to be about 12 year old.
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I really feel Superman Returns was close to being a great Supes movie. But just a small number of elements caused it to collapse. Firstly, Lux Luthor's old lady seduction and then the illogical real estate scheme. Lois Lane married and super sperm impregnated. And most importantly in my mind was the sidelining of Clark Kent as a useless character. Lex Luthor is the best Superman villain so I don't think sidelining him is the answer, especially for someone as complicated as Darkseid. Half the movie would be explaining who he is. For me, the reason why Batman Begins and the Dark Knight succeeded so well was the writing. The Nolan Brothers and David Goyer obviously had a passion for the themes and they were able to explore and expand on those themes will retaining the basic essence of Batman. The same needs to be done with Superman.
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Just yesterday I was telling someone that It's Superman would make a cool Supes movie. Great book. Still want a sequel to Returns, though.
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It's Superman may pose issues for some. First, Lex is heavily featured, and that has been the bane of many a talkbacker. Second, he isn't Superman 'proper' for much of the book. But still...
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I don't think one fan reaction affects things so much. But an outcry of fan outrage does, yes. And this is one of the sites that gives an outlet for that outrage. A story is posted like the Abrams Superman project and when nearly everyone agrees that it sucks, or when people obviously don't want the mythos changed, then the suits probably do listen, or their people tell them about it. That's one of the things that this site does best. i.e. fanboy bitching.
I'm glad that Abrams' version was never made and I'll be glad when they "reintroduce" Superman after Singer's version. There's nothing wrong with scrapping everything and trying to get it right. Those versions didn't work so you move on. -
Bad, bad advice. The Cohens are all wrong for that.
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The guys frm Fargo... Will be doing Superman. Oh my God. This is it. Warner Brothers made me lose the ability to laugh. This is the funniest thing I've heard in my life. How... how can I go on living, now that nothing can make me laugh again?
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tackle Cavalier and Clay, the Chabon book about the comic writers in the early days. Great novel and perhaps a bit more tuned to their sensibilities than a full out Superman movie. My suggestion would be give it to either Brad Bird(remember the Iron Giant? Incredibles?) or Tarsem, as was mentioned above. I'm not sure what Tarsem would come up with, but I think he could really hold true to the mythos and feel of Superman.
Hmm. Anyone else? I like the Kerry Conran suggestion, but he hasn't gotten a chance to show any of his stuff since Sky Captain. He needs a few more things under his belt first.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Gil Kenan has done with City of Ember.
I think we need someone optimistic with a good grasp on wonder, and yet they can do a level of realism as well. -
...let me just start by saying, I read everything you right on here because I believe you're, far and away, the smartest person writing for AICN. You "get it" in a way that few people in the industry do. And maybe the Coens helming a Superman film is an inspired choice in a Chris Nolan sort of way, but they'd have to be a little less existential in their storytelling for a mainstream popcorn film. I'm not saying that summer movies have to be dumb or clumsy, The Dark Knight proves they don't, but I don't want a Superman film that, in the end, adds up to nothing. My swing for the fences choice would be Tarantino. We already know he writes crackerjack dialog. And we also know he gets what Superman is all about. And with each film he grows visually as a storyteller. I'm absolutely convinced he can do big, beautiful action. At this point, he's an icon in his own right. You put Tarantino and Superman together and you've got a license to print money.
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Sep 17, 2008 7:55:10 AM CDT
wouldnt the Coens do a great adaptation of The Goon...?
by rocklobster800
that seems more up their alley to me.....coincidentally, Ive been having a great week of The Coens.Ive started rewatching everything in preparation for Burn After Reading being released in the UK...Ive got to The Hudsucker Proxy and have been riding the high of classic brilliant, unfaltered Coens.. and Fargo is next! As for them tackling Superman? I also dont believe they would want to touch the project and the whole thing is kinda dream idea-but its nice to dream....but as I said, if they have to adapt a comic...umm...wouldnt The Goon be more suited to them? No one?
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...could have been better if it didn't feel too much like it was paying tribute to the first two. If he'd handled Lex Luthor and his goons a bit more seriously, that alone would have made the difference. Other than that I liked the themes he was trying to introduce, and think that as a re-introduction to the mythos he was relatively succesful. The most important thing is that he took Superman seriously enough to revisit and explore the most fundamental aspect about Superman: his God-like abilities. I thought the allusions to Prometheus, Apollo, and Genesis clever and warranted, and thought that the idea of having a son a natural choice, which is why I was looking forward to what Singer was planning with the next film. But, like I said, Lex Luthor was played too much like the Lex from the first two films, and that I felt took away much of the menace that the film needed, and would have compensated for the fact that the film had relatively few action sequences (though the plane sequence alone made up for that). That's probably the most important lesson it could have learned from Batman Begins (and even more so from the Dark Knight): make the characters believable. I still hope that Singer gets a second chance.
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Eek! Come back Michael Bay, all is forgiven. Even do I kind of like Bekmambetov (in spite of the fact that he's no better really than The Bay) I'm sceptical as to whether someone from Kazakhstan should be given reign over a very American superhero. And as for Tarsem...hmmmmm well only if one of the key plotpoints of the movie involves Superman's search for a perfume for Lois...
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Just a thought.
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Personally, I'd absolutely love to see what Singer would do with a sequel. The fact that I'm not so in love with the Classic Superman maybe makes me more OK with the idea of introducing stuff like a kid and all the talky melodrama (which I felt Singer did way right). Maybe it's part of being gay, but I really connected with all that shtuff!
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Sorry about that- what i was trying to type there is that its ironic that Moriarty is so interested in De Haven's book as a movie, because my screenwriting professor actually just last week used this book as an example to help teach cinematic adaptation...but here's the issue, I havent read the book, but what i read seemed to imply that ma kent dies...and i fucking hated that..because IF you feel the need to kill off one of the kent parents it NEEDS to be that father in my mind, as to play into Clarks conflict as to which father to follow in his life...to me, and to Donner (and yes to Singer too) thats father theme is pretty essential to the Superman Myth. Also De Havens book actually shoehorns Superman pretty well to the end of the novel to allow Clark's character development-which isnt what anyone wants if we want really solid action. What the book does get sooo right, is that its a period piece...and i think it would be bloody brilliant to make a superman of his own time...explain the strong man costume, make hime a follhearty vigilante at the start, even bring in the issues of communism (just throwing it out) but to me anhyway, this property isnt the superman anyone really wants to see...
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It was a solid film all around. There was nothing wrong with it, so I say screw the complaints and have Singer do a follow-up with Brandon Routh in the titular role.
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Enough with the quaint navel-gazing, I agree with people who want it modern, who want cutting edge sci-fi, an alien menace, hyper action, modern/futuristic technology...Superman allows you to play with those things. And yes, maybe even giant robots.
"So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots?"
"And also, you should win things by watching!" -
...would be a very interesting choice, I don't think it's so important as who directs as opposed to what they're directing. The success of the next Superman movie depends 100% on the script.We need a villain who Superman matches physical strength with, not wits.Zod has been the best villain in the film franchise so far, not Luthor. When an evil genius surrounds himself with dunderheads who are stumped by a child safety cap, they lose their worth a credible villain.
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For having super human intellegence, All-Star Superman was all just a bit retarded. Maybe it's just me. He seemed mentally challenged a bit too much in the story.
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I completely agree with other posters, we've all seen the origin story. I want to see Superman going about his business. I want to see a hero in full control of his powers confronted with a great challenge. How many times are we going to see a superhero learn to fly, or confront the great responsibility of new powers? (The Greatest American Hero movie should scratch that itch.) James Bond made it to film 21 before we saw anything resembling an origin story, and the "young James Bond" books have yet to be adapted to film, God help us.
I'm not against the Coens idea 100%. It could work, but they don't seem to do their strongest work with someone else's material. I think they need to be around for the genesis of an idea.
Give this franchise to Paul Greengrass. Seriously. I want to see Super-Shakycam. -
Look Moriarty has this pretty interesting wet dream where in Bizarro world Joel and Ethan Cohen sell out and direct Superman-but lets consider the issue realistically...what have the Cohen's done that says big budget action/adventure for the whole family? And even further, what in the world makes the think the Cohens would ever be interested in a property like this...maybe if they can write a Dashiell Hammett style crime into it...but i think if you think about this we really dont need a Cohen brother's Superman Movie to be satisfied...we need someone with broader sensibilities...a Peter Jackson, a James Cameron, a Steven Spielberg...those names are never going to happen, true, but what about Alphonso Cauron...there's a guy that can do big budget aswell as character...i mean he's the KIND of guy you need if youreally want all of the elements that are being thrown around in this talkback.
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those are pretty cool ideas. Jett, are you the Jett from batman-on-film?
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Justice League got it right. Superman's arc over the entire Superman Animated Series to JLU was excellent. He went from being a complete do gooder to seeing some of the truly dark sides of humanity. I enjoyed the fact that when it came to villains like Luthor and Darkseid, Superman took the lead and didn't listen to anyone because he felt that he could take it and did not want to sacrifice any other member. He came off at times like a dick but his intentions, his nobleness, and willingness to sacrifice himself was exceptional. One of his final lines is so memorable in the series when he says that he feels like he lives in a world of cardboard and that he has to hold back. He was glad Darkseid was there, so he could unleash and show everyone how powerful he really was. Astounding. They got the play between Batman and Superman right. They got the fact that Superman is a role model not just to other heroes but to the entire world. Superman: TAS' Legacy episode in which Darkseid turns Superman against Earth was excellent. The people distrusted heroes and Superman and it had ramifications throughout all of Bruce Timm's work. IPeople have problems with all of the Superman films. But the animated series got it right.
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Because, no matter how sincere their original intentions are, in the end the Coens would be unable to put in the "What the flying fuck is that about" scene. You know the scene - the Cancer scene in Fargo - the Aliens scene in Man Who Wasn't There - etc. I just can't see Joel and Ethan able to tell the story of a Kansas-bred Gosh Darn Rootin' Tootin' American Hero without plastering smarmy irony. Superman is exactly what they like to poke fun at - Baseball, Hot dogs, Apple Pie, 4th of July, the cheesiness that is America. Do you see them filming a scene with Supes flying high with an American Flag like an Eagle on Wing Aloft and not taking snickering shots at it? I don't. And BTW - no one is saying they aren't astonishingly talented filmmakers - I'd argue "Blood Simple" is the greatest Noir since "Rififi" - yeah better than "Body Heat" and "Last Seduction". But, just as I love Olly Stone and Spike Lee and John Dahl, they are not the director for the film. Just my cheap two cents.
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If Superman is such the American hero then why did they ditch his most important catchphrase from SR. It used to be "Truth, justice and the American way" and then it was changed to just "Truth and Justice"
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I cannot see them Doing a comic book film. though I would love to see them try. Howard hawkes screwball comedy, with bits of a crime story, and a snappy lois lane could work. The Coens would be hung out to dry on the talkback if it didnt succeed. but I can see them doing a superman film in the 1930s and maybe if they styled Dwayne Johnson as George Reeves. that would work. The hardcore talkbackers are like film pirahans, once they smell blood they go in for the kill. they will rip into the coens if the script isnt up to much and the director and the cast. Jennifer Jason leigh would make an excellent Lois lane.
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Superman Returns needed scenes like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kLUzPSvltY
And in Superman IV: The Quest for Peace when Supes straightens the flag on the moon. Awesome. -
First of all Mori, Tom DeHaven's version is ABSOLUTELY the right way to go. The book is a masterpiece, and revisionist only insofar as it incorporates the historical context in which Siegel and Shuster were writing. A period piece would be fantastic (although it would certainly short-circuit any Batman/Superman crossover... which would be hidious anyway, let's face it), but the Clark Kent as-written by Dehaven was pretty simple. He's not a smart guy, and Superman... well, he's smart. I bought it in the book, but it wouldn't work in a film.
Dehaven's Luthor, on the other hand, would. Brian Azzarello's Luthor, while incompatible with Dehaven's more vaudevillian interpretation, would be a fantastic screen presence too; not a villain so much as a humanist.
I see 'It's Superman' as an HBO or SciFi miniseries, to be honest.
That being said, and I'll get shit for this, I don't think a Millar script would work. His passion is inarguable, but his dialogue is too cold and always has been. A TREATMENT by Millar would be fine, as scale and scope are his thing. The writing of the script proper should be ideally assigned to someone like Chris McQuarrie, Alan Ball, Joss Whedon or even Jim Uhls. -
A brilliant stroke of genius. (Which is why it probably won't happen.) Now if you'll post my "Igor" review, I'd be much abliged.
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The entire writing staff travels to the heart of the Amazon. Harry eats Drew on the first day (even before the rations deplete), Capone, Mr. Beeks and the rest die quickly after, while trying to find El Superscripto. Vern actually finds the ancient City of Sei-gal and through a series of fights and moss eating contests, he becomes king and guides the tribe of Sei-gal to the Akidoverse.
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I think it was a smart move to elide the whole "American way" thing. It's too hegemonic a concept right now; too many people are pissed off with Bush and his jingoistic bullshit to think of it in anything other than neo-con asshole terms. Fact is, foreign markets DO contribute heavily to grosses. Europeans, Asians and Australasians simply aren't buying the shit Bush is peddling. We liked Clinton, but he committed the mortal sin of getting laid. The American way is not the problem per se of course... it's a force for good... it's how it's been distorted by some nasty pieces of work. Superman's above politics.
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See shitty box office returns for proof. It was a lousy movie and a circle jerk for the Donner films, where it should have been setting out its own stall. And let's not even get into the hideously misconceived super kid plot.
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Last Son would make an amazing film. Too much continuity though.
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...oh, sorry...wrong site.
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I'll be dashing to the bookstore to get a copy of It's Superman. The only thing that might get me more jazzed than this article would be word that Clint Eastwood is directing 'Kingdom Come.' I'm kind of serious.
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Mori, dude... seriously... the last time you opened your idiot mouth, you got JJ's interesting Superman script ditched for Siinger's snoozefest. Please SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
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Gen. Zod kidnaps clark kent. brainwashs superman. in an attempt to take over the world. Turns the world in new krypton. all of mankind is ensalved and Zod is the new ruler. at some point in the movie, supergirl makes an appearance. She is then introduced to Clark kent and tells him that everything that Zod has said is a lie. There is a huge price to be paid though has Zod turned the world against Clark Kent/superman. To repay his dept to mankind clarks punishment is that has to rebuild earth on his own. Supergirl breaks Zod's control over Kal-el but the damage has been done. that last scene of the movie....is Zod releasing all the villains from the phantom zone. the poin would be that Clarks battles are only just beginning...that is your next superman movie right there. Clark gets a familiar looking pet. Kryto the dog. Clarks kid from the first movie turns out to be superboy. The editor of the Daily planet Richard white has hatched a deal with zor-el to get rid of clark kent. Richard White wants power and will stop at nothing to get it and becomes corrupted.
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It may have made more money at the box office than Batman Begins, but Supes is universaly disliked, Batman was huge on dvd, you can't give away copies of Superman returns. I don't know a single person who owns it or can say they even like it.
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I really don't see anything in the Coen bros. repetoire that would suggest they could pull off an epic Superman film. They do off-beat stuff, not exactly who I'd pick to deliver an action-heavy piece of superhero Americana. Not seeing it. JJ would be better.
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...that shot of Superman falling into Central Park in the Singer movie was amazing. Rest of the movie was pretty dull, but that really stuck with me.
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Let's just leave the film alone and stop bitching about it. Move along. It's not that fucking terrible people, geez
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around to the idea that maybe, just maybe, someone will make another decent Supes picture in my lifetime, sooner or later
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Fucking horrible film. Even worse than X3
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Daredevil, X-3, Ang Lee's Hulk, Supergirl, Superman 3 and Superman 4, Batman and Robin, Ghost Rider, the Punisher, Blade Trinity, and your mom.
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Hate it if you want, but the movie largely worked for me. Routh looked too young, but his small nods to Reeve were amazing (look at his facial expressions during the rooftop scenes). My biggest problem was Lois, actually. I mean, I don't want Margot back, but they needed a woman with some damned moxie, and maybe who weighs more than 80 pounds. And if the shot of Superman silhouetted against the sun, gathering his strength, didn't make you feel like a kid again for a moment, then I just don't know what to say.
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Mori, you may miss this or it may be buried in the many responses. Still, I wanted to say that the DCAU Superman got it right. I'm talking about "Superman: The Animated Series" that ran through 2000. Smart, real, fun, honest, huge ... all that applies. I could never quite appreciate Superman until that series came along. They de-powered him a fair amount, but they got all the essentials right, and it was tons of fun.
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I actually liked the script...quite a bit. Just make that film...and I agree with the earlier poster on Jim Caviezel - he'd be great.
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The solution is simple: Villains.
Superman needs someone he can punch full-on. It's just that simple.
And the really galling part is he has a roster of suitable baddies from Darkseid to The Parasite to Metallo to Brainiac that could fill the bill nicely.
But, yeah, they need a full-on reboot. Just pretend that Singer debacle never happened and move on with an entirely new cast, writer, director, etc. -
on sale and I still couldn't bring myself to buy it despite having the first two films and all the fleischer cartoons on dvd
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"let's give him EVERY power we can think of!!" flight, invulnerability, heat vision, x-ray vision, super strength, super-breath... and we'll make him an all-around boyscout, always fighting for truth justice and the american way and never doing anything wrong!!! please, use a little imagination. Entertaining, maybe. But the least creative of any character ever. Doesn't take imagination to just throw every possible ingredient in the pot.
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I'd pay TRIPLE to see that!
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SR mostly sucked, even if there were a few visuals I really liked.
Rule number one for a new Superman movie:
ENOUGH WITH FUCKING LEX LUTHOR ALREADY!!!!!
Get a villain or invent one that's actually a menace -- preferably an at least somewhat physical menace so that we can see Superman, well, being super.
We DO need a reboot of the franchise. Just be sure to skip the kid subplot. Other than that, keep it classic.
At this point I actually wouldn't be disappointed if they did announce Michael Bay as the next director. Most of you folks wouldn't be either. Go on, admit it. -
superman returns was not perfect but i loved the updated donneresque tone...DO Another one of those (only better)
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I would like to see the messianic aspects of Superman played up. The first trailer for SUPERMAN RETURNSwith Jor El's booming voice over explaining how he was sending his only son as a light to guide humanity showed promise, but the movie did not deliver.
I could even see a trilogy. First, Superman becomes a savior for the world. Second, an Alan Moore "whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" soul searching sequel, and a Kingdom Come type final movie where superman finds his comfortable place in the grand scheme of things.
If it could be done seriously in the same way Christopher Nolan has presented Batman, it would become the most iconic super hero movis ever filmed. -
The movie was awful. Your claim that people liked the film but that Superman just isnt popular ... that is some serious self-delusion or some deliberate spin. The truth is that the only reason the movie made a dime is because people love Superman. Word of mouth and reviews based on the actual contents of the movie ... that is what kept the numbers down. Superman would knock the ball out of the park if they were to ditch the Returns stuff. They don't need to reboot the character or anything. Get a new actor, pretend the son of superman and the stalker stuff never happened, and simply move on. Make another movie, and please have NO LEX OR ZOD. I am just about tired of those characters. Superman has a huge catalog of villains, and not all of them are goofy. :)
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when you know the world's top Whendigo genre director?
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. . . makes me feel tingling, y'know, down there. Ball-bellied men in spandex? I couldn't pay my $9.50 fast enough.
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...I would imagine that, if it turns out to be THAT GOOD, then you might want a "visionary" director...and NOT a "re-visionary" one. That's my only problem with the Coen brothers coming into play. (I would imagine that Mark Millar would go nuts if he found the Coen brothers giving their own spin on his passionate work.) Sure, I'd love to see what the Coen brothers would do with Superman. But yet, if Millar's script is all that HOT, I'd prefer a director who is inspired by the original script. And I suppose if the Coen brothers loved Millar's script as is...or (shockingly) they could work together, all would be right in the SUPERMAN world. (And at this point, who really knows what scripts are out there?)
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He's "super", pretty much unstoppable and can do whatever he wants. He's not a relatable as The X-Men. His rogue's gallery is nowhere nearly as interesting as Spider-Man and Batman. Actually, the only Superman I liked is in Frank Miller's Batman THE DARK KNIGHT books, where he's "controlled" by the President and gets his asskicked by Bats. Oh, and when he goes into a rage and takes out spaceships and other moving machinery using his body as a human bullet (end of DK2). Huh huhhuh... that was cool.
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Seems like one of those crazy, drunk in love with film type conversations. But hey, that's why I come to this site, so though I know this wouldn't happen, it's fun to imagine.Just like its fun to imagine what could have been if Spielberg had directed Return of the JediOr how fun it is to imagine what it would have looked like if Lucas had somehow captured the whimsical fun and insanity of Pirates, and translated that into the Star Wars universe. Or remember the old notion Harry brought up that none other than Kane hisself, Orson Wells had once considered Batman? The mind wanders with such cinematic tall tales.
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Moriarty, you didn't sink the Abrams movie--you don't have that much power or influence. Get over yourself, man.
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that it just might work...and on the other hand not so crazy anyway. As for Superman Returns, I wish they hadn't brought so many characters back from the earlier Superman films. Did we really need Lex Luthor as his nemesis again?? Let's see us some battles with Brainiac on a massive scale! And Superman having a son, although poignant in a sense, is overall pretty lame. Alluding to the old Superman films is fine if it's done in little ways; I like how they used Marlon Brando's voice-over in the opening sequence. But let's not be so fixated on them. Bring in some fresh ideas. I don't mind too much if Routh returns, but I don't want Singer anywhere near this material. I don't hate Singer like I hate Bret Ratner; I am looking forward to Singer's WW2/Cruise film. But I don't trust him with Superman material.
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Superman doesnt even have the longest list of powers you can have. The Martian Manhunter has at least as many. :) Also, just because Superman's power level is high, that does not mean you can't write a great story about him. Most Superman stories are plagued by the fact that most writers aren't imaginative enough to deal with characters that have a high power level and powers that do an end-run around some plot/story conventions. The best writers (Morrison's All Star Superman springs to mind, but there are others) EMBRACE the ramifications of the character's power level and RUN WITH IT. There are tons of great Superman stories you could write, and you don't need Kryptonite to write them. Superman has vulnerabilities. Also, the DC Universe has quite a few characters who are a threat to him because they have an equal power level or because they are mentalists or because they use magic or even because they think in a way that he doesnt and will use innocent life as a lever. Also as an aside, I want to say that in the comic book world, I watched the Watchmen and The Dark Knight books turn comics into at least 2 decades of "The GD Batman" and for that matter, a decade of dark gritty deconstructionist crap. I thought the recent Batman movie was great, but I hope it doesn't become the catalyst that makes all future superhero movies into dark horrific tales. There is NO REASON to do a Superman movie with such a tone. I hope they'll NOT try to do that same thing with the next Superman film.
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You know who should direct the next Superman? Nay, who HAS to direct the next Supes... MEL "FREAKING" GIBSON!!! Think about it, he did one savior figure already, why couldn't he do another one. And this time he could attempt to make a means with the Tribe, by not getting bogged down in the Christ-allegory nonsense, but by structuring the story more closely to the icon its creators were really thinking about, MOSES! Little baby sent in a raft (space craft) to a far away world that is not his own, only to find that he must rise up as a leader of men, someone who can inspire, etc. Sure there really isn't that much similarity between Supes and the Mose after that, but one can imagine. Also you know that Supes would get beat up reals good in a Gibson style blood bath. Not only that but Mel does shoot some gorgeous looking flicks, and he gets scope, he gets the visual medium of film and how to tell a story through light, sound, and emotion, which are all things that Supes would need. Okay realistically, no way does WB ever hand the reigns off to that nutbag, but its fun to imagine what could be.
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Superman: Shia LaBeouf
Lex Luthor: Samuel L. Jackson
Lois Lane: Drew Barrymore
Brainiac: CGI, voiced by Christopher Walken
Cameo at the end by Batman to set up possible JLA or Batman/Superman Movie: Batman played by Sly Stallone.
Director: Michael bay
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Sep 17, 2008 10:04:39 AM CDT
I was just think about this, and it kept me up so I came here
by ironic_name
but superman NEEDS to be depowered, no listening to every conversation, what, are there no child molesters in metropolis? superman LEAPING in the air like in the Fleisher cartoons. and METALLO! he is a godzilla / kaiju sized threat, a guy with a homemade supereltromagnet powered by kryptonite as an artificial heart, who has artifical limbs, heart, who injects electro charger needles into his eyes so that he can see any video feeds. who becomes an electromagnet that attracts any metal in the area till he looks like this:
http://tinyurl.com/6baj3x http://tinyurl.com/6xo43c as for writers and directors, chan woo park. jim caviezel as superman. -
That's all you need for JJ's Superman trailer.
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Well,..anything other than Nolan's next Batman flick. And Fav's IRON MAN sequel. But as for JUSTICE LEAGUE or AVENGERS? Spielberg would be a wet dream! (Captain America, anyone?)
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It sucked balls and the story sucked balls too. So much ball sucking in one movie is not good. It made the Transformers look......no way. Transformers sucked even more balls. So much balls that every dude in the movie theater had a wet spot on their pants after the end of the movie. That's a lot of ball sucking.
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It is easier to relate to Spider-Man, I'll give you that, but I sort of object to comparing Spider-Man to Batman otherwise. Spider-Man is definitely not a "realistic" superhero. His lift capacity is 15 tons, and bursts to 30-40 in times of great need. His spider-sense and agility let him evade bullets, and he has slow (non-reconctructive) regeneration. Among other powers. So, again, I just want to say, power level should not make a character less interesting. Only the writing can do that.
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superman has 3 influences: a POWER FANTASY concept revolving around a MOSES origin with a CHRIST character.
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...I mean, hes goddamn oscar winning director of epic action and drama. Plus I'm sure he has plenty of things to say in regards to Supermen and the superior kryptonian race.
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enough already!! Can we move on to a different villain, please?? Dont include Lex on even a small or supporting level!
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They'd make something interesting out of Superman, but nothing I'd want to see. This is just pure silliness. And although I'm sure that some attention was brought to the JJ Script by Moriarty, let's not get carried away here. I love this site, but you guys give yourselves waaaay too much credit sometimes.
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Let's not forget that.
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And I didn't like it. I loved SUPERFOLKS and I loved Superman 1 and 2, but hated SUPERMAN RETURNS. There was almost zero fun about De Haven's book - Clark Kent becomes a hobo and an almost second-string character in the novel. There was nothing of the spectacle that a SUPERMAN movie should have. A SUPERMAN movie needs to be action, fun, and intelligent - this novel is not a good basis for any of that.
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Because we've all wondered what it would be like to see Superman at an S&M night club....
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He was perfect in the animated series... and use Brandon Routh... he was great! DARKSEID needs to be in it too.
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Sep 17, 2008 10:34:03 AM CDT
Mori, Has no pull in Hollywood. Hell, he has no pull at home.
by penetron
Now go make your wife some tea!
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You had every right in the world to complain. It was awful. It ALMOST makes me appreciate.. no I am not going to say that. Superman Returns raped my childhood. God what an awful movie that was.
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And Jennifer Jason Leigh was essentially playing Lois Lane.
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Remember the american flag on Spiderman? That's why.
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Uh, 70 years. Supes was created in 1938.
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In that his articles are usually very honest about their own context, articulate, and at least well-reasoned. Good for you, Mori. Though I completely disagree about the DeHaven novel, and the choice of directors. But this is the kind of talkback forum that's good to have around.
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Hello, The Man Without a Face. Plus his Martin Riggs was sort of a Superman when it came to 80's style Karate action and mullets. Yeah, I think this Gibson thing could really work, too bad my peeps in the business will never forgive that loony Anti-Semite. Can I blaim them, well for me the Road Warrior allows me to forgive his horrible racism, but that's just me. I rest my case. Er wait, I thought that was just a figure of speech, what I meant to say was, CASE CLOSED, heh heh.
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need to do a Wonder Woman movie where Cheetah ties her up like in 'Bound' (hey, it's faithful to the source material). And she and Cheetah need to have a very complicated love/hate relationship. Involving chloroform. And icecubes. And then Megan Fox comes in and strangles a mountain ox with her bare hands.
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As a cameo, Gibson could actually play Jor-El, only he lives and he comes to Earth to demand the human race stop mistreating his boy! GIVE ME BACK MY SON! This just gets better and better.
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directs Superman to get whipped and tortured by Darkseid for 30 minutes before Darkseid hangs him on a makeshift cross in front of all his parademons and the slaves of Apokolips. Then, as Supes is hanging, Darkseid uses his Omega Beam to puncture a wound in the side of Jes--I mean Superman.
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If you REALLY, REALLY need to make another "do-over" movie, than just lift the story out of the Loeb/Sale book. They should try to model superman after Sale's version. Big, corn-fed and maybe not THAT bright. Lex has to be a corporate mogul, the exact opposite of Supes. It would all work prefectly. Except...
The reason TDK worked so well, is because it wasn't another start-up. We NEVER once heard about the parents, or any of that shit. We all know it drives him, we don't need a scene showing the shooting or him at the graves crying. We know all that already, lets get to character work. Superman would be WAY better as a future story. Make him older, give him a past. Everyone knows how he got here, where he's from and what happened when he was a kid. We do not need to see it again.
Villians are also important. Another thing TDK got right. Superman has a pussy rogues gallery, but there are a few good ones. Lex done right would be good, but everyone is so tired of him. Darksied works, but it would be a lot of work to build him up. Braniac is money. He can be held responsible for Krypton, and is extremely powerful. A Braniac controlling Lex story, with Lex getting the last laugh (like TAS) would work well. Alien stories will work, Superman is an alien, so it's not like people will think it's not realistic or something.
The Coens are an odd choice. They would make a quirky Superman film, and it would probably be well acted, but it's tough. If they go more Hudsucker and less Lebowski/Burn After Reading it could work. I would perfer someone who would be radical like Fincher or someone safe like Brad Bird. -
Was he a bad Superman? I'm curious if people didn't like "Superman Returns" because of the plot or because of Routh's Superman or Bosworth's Lane? Not sure myself...I enjoyed "Returns," but we don't really have Superman being "Super" since Superman II when he fought the Negative Zone baddies. I think more of him kicking alien ass and using his SUPER powers would be better. I'm tired of him fighting Luthor. He should just put his forefinger through Luthor's skull already (I'm kidding...I know he doesn't kill). Plus, I don't like the idea that WB thinks they have to "darken" up their characters and focus on their dark sides. That's not what makes Superman great. I think they should pool DeHaven, Morrison, and Johns into a room and have them craft a kick-ass Superman Trilogy that works on all levels. Dunno though...I drifted and found a tangent.
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the part about how Superman comes back to live was really stupid. But the big twist at the end? I never saw it coming and I loved it. Too bad you had to go and ruin it. It reads to me as a great redo of the story. Big deal. When the Coen Brothers did a redo of The Oddessy, I didn't hear you bitch and moan about how John Goodman can't be the cyclops because the cyclops is a huge mythical monster with one eye and a rhino horn on its head. John Goodman in a suit and a fake eyepatch? YOURE BETTER THAN THIS COEN BROTHERS
Seriuosly - I think you got that script, and saw an opportunity to play "super secret script spoiler" and an opportunity to get your update linked across the whole world, and you just dove into it feet first. Like I said, other than the stupid plan for bringing Superman back to life (which as a concept I dont mind, but the execution was rather silly), the script really looked great. I agree that the Naboo parts needed to be one single sequence that covered all of that drama and doesn't keep ping-ponging back to it, but I really enjoyed the entire rest of the script.
You need to seriously stop putting ad impressions ahead of common sense.
And if I did miss your giant rant about how the Coen Brothers were planing to make a really crummy and really lousy 'reimagining' of The Odessy then please link me to it. Otherwise, you're just an opportunistic impression-whoring fanboy. -
--if, and only if, they could do it with zero studio interference. They don't work well that way and they never have. Is there anyone left these days who can produce an amazing work of pop art with an army of suits breathing down his neck at every turn?
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To the idiots who say a Superman movie won't work because the character is a boy scout who is invulnerable. Are you serious? First of all, Superman isn't invulnerable. Kryptonite can weaken him and be used to kill him. He also has plenty of villains (Brainiac, Dark Seid, Doomsday, Zod, etc) who are capable of going to toe to toe with him and putting him in real danger.
Lastly, there are plenty of interesting places you can go with a character with a boyscout complex. You simply do what they did to Batman in The Dark Knight. Put Superman in a position where no matter what he does, there will be serious and horrible consequences to a whole bunch of innocent people and/or people that he has some personal attachment to and you make him choose. Unlike Batman, who tried to save the woman he loved in The Dark Knight, Superman would be inclined to make the opposite choice and that would be a very interesting dynamic to explore. What choosing the welfare of the masses over the welfare of somebody that he personally cared a lot about would do to the character. There are plenty of places you could go with something like that. Batman does what he does out of a very personal need for revenge. Superman is the complete opposite of that and that can make for just as interesting and compelling a story as we see in The Dark Knight if it's explored properly. -
Drew, I love ya, but I could just about kill you right now. ;-) This is a truly great idea, but by taking ownership of it I fear you've guaranteed it'll never happen. If only you could've slyly reported it as a rumor, that would've given the-powers-that-be political cover to take ownership of the idea themselves, and move on it without losing face and owing you anything. (I'd love to be wrong, though.)
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The problem with that one was that it was tied down by too much baggage from the Donner era... it was a little too afraid of breaking free and imagining its own universe. Still, I think Singer got the tone perfectly, and Routh was a perfect choice. Unfortunately, the story was still too small and Kevin Spacey's camp act as Luther sank the ship, making sure there was never any real danger. Still, I think a reboot would be an awful, awful idea, particularly since "Returns" kept the history from previous films. Singer's the man, and I promise you he can make a home-run Superman film with the right script. Remember, too, that "Batman Begins" had plenty of problems of its own. Singer gets Supes and has the right cast, (although its probably time to give Lex a break... and bring back Kal Penn already!) so its just a matter of the right story.
for the record, a Coen's "Superman" would be hella fun, but for the franchise, I think Singer's the man for the job. He ought to lighten up a little about the Donner films, and just have some fun playing with the characters for the next one. As for the Super-son thing... all this fanboy outrage makes me think of Fry's advice on plots... "Clever things make people feel stupid, and unexpected things make them feel scared". I think its a kind of neat idea, particularly since there's an underlying theme in the movie about Superman being kind of unable to finish what he starts. Having a kid he sort of abandoned within a relationship he neglected until it went away might actually give the character some depth in a sequel. I think its the one bold move in the whole movie, and, if handled properly, could really help the series (as long as it stays a subplot, and doesnt overwhelm the action, which hopefully will be REALLY overwhelming next outing) -
He was convincing and deserves another shot.
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Here's where I'm going with that: to everyone who's using the box office of 'The Dark Knight' as proof that quality attracts the crowds or whatever, well... I assume you'd argue that 'Batman Begins' is about the same caliber of film, or at the very least LIGHT YEARS better than 'Superman Returns,' yet it earned less money (not counting expenses and "net worth"). So while I am of the opinion that the Superman franchise needs a sort-of reboot as well, I think that you have to be careful about being too reactionary to the "winds." Popularity doesn't ensure quality, and quality doesn't necessarily ensure popularity, and you can't necessarily graft whatever worked for one franchise over onto another. Superman doesn't need to be dark, nor does he need to fight another flying computer-generated effect for two hours. I think the best you can do in this case is to just go with your gut, and try to make the best film possible, and hope that people respond to it... because if you try and find patterns in other movies "like it" (i.e. movies with comic book characters in them) and focus group the thing to death, you could end up with a movie that nobody likes. Trying to launch a Superman movie is always a big gamble due to its expense, but then, Christopher Nolan directing a Batman movie was kind of a risky move at the time, and getting Bryan Singer to direct "another comic book movie" seemed like a sure thing.
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No, 'cause we already saw The Dark Knight and we don't need it done again. Superman IS a story about an invulnerable* Boy Scout, and if that story doesn't work, it's a better idea to explore other properties.*except for Kryptonite, which means that ANY story in which Superman is going to be in any kind of danger has to involve that same glowy rock, which gets kinda old after a while.
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If you hadn't, we probably never would've gotten Lost.That said, I've got total respect for you second-guessing an article you wrote years ago that probably did completely fuck up a few peoples lives and careers. So can you get in touch with the Coen Bros. now already. Meanwhile, I seriously want to check out this book...
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As soon as I saw the title of the article, Mori, I realized what the talkback would turn into. Great article, great fodder for discussion. Too bad there's very little actual "discussion" in these talkbacks anymore. The mean-spiritedness and personal attacks are more out of hand than ever. Certain people who are so full of venom will never agree on anything-- let alone agreeing to disagree on something. For those individuals who are exceptions to this, and you know who you are, I applaud you.
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No offense, broseph, but isn't your post basically just a "classier" form of the same old namecalling? If you think TalkBacking should really be about discussion and ideas and all of that high-minded stuff, maybe you should put forth some of your own. And I realize the irony inherent in this post, but you know what I mean.
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Or at least that's what I've always heard. I'll bet he starts talking this up, at least privately.
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That's one thing to help out with the plot. Make him less powerful. No, he can't save a falling jet airliner. He can't pick up a fucking island. I know people are intrigued by the idea of having a god among us, but it doesn't work when you're trying to make an action-packed extravaganza. I actually liked Superman Returns in some ways - they did a good job with the godlike figure angle, yes Luthor and the entire threat sucked and the kid thing was unnecessary, etc etc etc. But the tone was right for that take on the character, for a nigh-omnipotent man. But ultimately you are not going to get an exciting movie out of that character. Take his powers down a few notches. No more heat vision, at least. It makes no sense. Bulletproof, but not artillery-proof. And hell, maybe even make him leap instead of fly. It's worth a try. Enough with the Jesus stuff. He's an immigrant. And ... begin.
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...the greates writers and directors in all of film making.
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for the World's Greatest Superhero. JJ Abram's script was revisionism. And you do not alter the most sacred, mythic story in all of American fiction.
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...I don't give a shit what anyone says. Sure-- it changed major details in the Superman mythos, and thats exactly what the series needed. Superman is dead. They will make another film. And it will do moderate business. But the only way they will ever have a serious return is if they figure out a way to make a Supes film for 50 million. Its just not that interesting of a story.
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Mori, you got something there!!
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Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and all that. I thought he acquitted himself fine in the role and it's pretty hard to find "Superman" in the first place.
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Who can prove they are die hard fans of all things Superman. Fans who did not like Returns.
Sign them to an NDF- Sends them all the scripts they've collected. Don't any info in regards to who wrote the scripts. I wonder how many nobodies without a single film to their name submitted Superman Scripts to Agents to send to WB and simply because the names where not known the scripts where trashed! WB shouldn't be concerned with the writers name on the screenplay it's about the material.
If WB can do this and somehow control leaks. After all these fans won't know the script that wins and if any info leaks they have 50 people they can polygraph and charge with a crime for breaking a contract.
If they do this they will get an honest review and reaction and decision from true fans to what possible directions they should (not could) take with the franchise.
Also they should ask these 50 fans to tell them what they would like to see, not before they get the scripts, after. You have to ask after because these fans might feel like you didn't listen to them if they don't see those things in the material you send them to review.
Take all this data. Mull over it, and make a choice. Bring that winning Writer in and Clean it up.
Do not let the director rework the screenplay. This time respect the Writer. Tell the director that he can point the camera any way he wants- Hire who ever he wants. But the written material stays as is.
I said it an I agree with some of the other people. This site really wants to control and influence the system. Say all you want. This isn't a "What if Posting" This is a "Listen to me Now, and Believe me Later" post. Who doesn't want the credit to say "See what I made them do!" Just like Mori's rant on what the Joker should be like before the film was in the can, and then him basically saying "They listened to me". Delusional Egomaniacs The whole lot.
Here comes a nice crisp Ban Card for me. I'll be back. To call you on your bullshit behind a new handle. Been here since 1996- even owned the same PC Harry did, Yeah I read your book. Can't believe it's the same person. The type style in the book is very intelligent and well thought out and it doesn't pander down to live on quipy catch phrases. I Ain't going nowhere anytime soon. This place is my WWF, and you guys are the Mean Wrestlers I come to yell at. Strangely, sometimes I like you and I agree fully with your insight and critique of the moment. sometimes I think you say great things but you play evil and mean better than most. Know that two of you have some serious issues with one side of you family, makes me wonder about your value systems. I don't blame you for that anger, but You can see the pain very clearly when something displeases you. You know where that vile retaliation stems from and how it got so good at being so vile.
Too bad Garth's site never adopted a Talk Back. -
Sep 17, 2008 12:00:51 PM CDT
FUCK SUPERMAN!! Should have made Joss Whedon's Wonder Women!
by what the duck
He doesn't deserve another movie. I know Im gonna get shit for this but there has ever been Superman I thought was good. Not even the Christopher Reeves one. They should worry about making movies for other DC properties.
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Sep 17, 2008 12:18:52 PM CDT
Also I think WB knows that Superman needs a rest
by dracula_wants_the_amulet
If they plan to re image it- they know it's still too soon. The majority of People didn't enjoy the last one. The taste is still strong in the mouth. Look at the new hulk, and how it didn't do as well as it could have. Could it be because enough time didn't pass to build up the excitement to see a new one. Superman needs to lay down for a bit see what other Superhero films can do and learn from it and then come back when people start screaming for a new one, and not just the fan's those average everyday moviegoers. Which is what we were seeing before Returns was filmed. Time needs to happen in regard to a new film. WB has plenty of other properties to play with. Do they really want to piss away another 150/350 million on the thought that people might give it chance and forget the pain they felt from the last one? Time... Time has to happen. Like it or not.
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because they're always so ridiculously long that your comments just gets lost in the maelstrom. Thanks being said, allow me to waste some pixels.Whomever writes the new Superman movie would do everyone a great favor to go back and read the original Superman stories by Siegal and Shuster. The original Superman character was a lot of fun. He ENJOYED being who he is, had fun pulling the wool over Lois' eyes, and was a character of ACTION -- something sadly missing from SR. The new film really needs to try to capture that feel.Perhaps it would work to do the movie in black and white as a period piece (set in the 40's)?
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Well a rumour doing the rounds is that WB is trying to get a Superman movie done before the complications with the Siegel case.
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Just looks corny as hell these days. Definitely would look better in a period piece or in something slightly noir.
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I've read It's Superman and it's a quaint little retro exploration of the myth and harks back to the Fleischer cartoons from 70 years ago. That's 70 years ago!!!! The world has changed and we need a Superman for the 21st century, not the 19th. And the Coens? Really? Hudsucker Proxy aside, are they really the right choice for an FX laden film?
PLEASE, PLEASE WARNER BROS - avoid this idea like the plague - it will set back the Superman franchise worse than Batman & Robin did it to Batman. -
What the Hell was that article about. I read it and wasted 10 minutes of my life...!
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They really have two gears: Looney Tunes insanity, off-the-wall cartoon/caricature and then there's their very serious stuff. The two gears sometimes bleed into each other, but not too much. But I donno if Superman can really work with either approach. I think we ought to get someone else on it. Fincher might be interesting. I don't normally care for Ron Howard, but his feel-good optimism might be right at home with a Depression-era Superman. What about Ridley Scott? Mel Gibson (provided he could keep it a PG-13 or under)? If Barry Levinson could bring back that mythologizing he did so well with The Natural, he could be interesting. George Miller could kick ass. I'd like to see John Sayles but there is zero chance of that ever happening. Shyamalan could do it if he stayed out of his own way. The Wachowskis might be good, though I'm not a huge fan of theirs and they might be in the doghouse as far as Warner Bros. is concerned. Peter Weir could make a magnificent Superman picture, I bet. I donno, there are a lot of directors who maybe aren't as good as the Coens, but there are a number of them who could make a better Superman film, I feel.
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Nope. Not aimed at you.
Aimed in general to the Bay Lovers who keep defending him with all the rage and inteligence of a monkey beating the bars of his cage in between jerking himself off. It's not 'cause the man is a misunderstood artist or any of that bullshit...it's because he treats the audience like a passed out sorority girl at the frat house.
And to those who might respond with a "hell yeah" to that notion - let's switch you from Ritalin to Lithium. And castrate you as well. Your genetic material should stay inside your crusty gym sock under the bed and nowhere near a girl who might end up pregnant with your worthless spawn.
There is a certain dread in watching the current downward slope in modern flicks that keeps trending lower and lower, appealing to the base mob.
Thank God for DARK KNIGHT and even IRON MAN - two summer movie FX flicks that actually remembered that you CAN tell a decent story between explosions.
And for the record, Singer's version was not bad. Slow? Yeah. But you know he would have done a hell of a job in part two if given a chance.
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VadakinX posted above about bringing Singer back to continue with Man of Steel & all in his post way above!
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I know many HATE this comic, but this is a really interesting Superman. He gives up on everything and sells out to Luthor. But in doing so, he keeps the one secret, his daughter from Luthor. It's a struggle between losing his identity and holding on to one last spark of hope. I'm big on a Defeated Superman. Not so much on a Stalker Superman though. Oh, and a Fat Lana Lang would be funny too.
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Even though I come here to yell at you more than agree with you. I wish no ill will on ya. I would be crushed if something bad happened to any of you. Surely you watched wrestlers and the various personalities involve in that Venue you loved to hate like Vince Mcmahon, but deep down you really liked em. Same thing. Although I outright like the hell out of Quint though. Never pissed me off once. The Amulet not being shown off sorta urks me a little. Share the wealth why don't cha.
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Not that anyone's still reading this long thread, but Mike Bay would deliver on the spectacle that everyone is asking for in spades. Also, Moriarty, you have no reason to regret nuking that POS Abrams script.
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Now that I would pay to see...
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Not gonna happen for Superman. Not after the bath WB took with SR. They want something safe and relatively cheap. Period pieces generally cost much more than a film set in modern times. Why would they risk that? And the Coens would never do this. Sorry.
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because apparently he's got it all figured out. Shit why even have studios, just get this guy to make all the calls in the movie world, every movie will be good...
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thats why the studio has been having so much trouble since the FIRST movie. The character is dated. His disguise implausible and in our age, no one accepts that. His powers are unfairly one-sided, his weakness is predictable, his villains are dull and aren't iconic like Spiderman, Batman or even Fantastic Four! The plot and background are standard and familiar. Nothing about Superman is very interesting in an age where there are so many superheroes it makes peoples head spin. Other characters bring more realism and interesting situations and abilities. Superman wants to have it all, and yeah, back in the day he was cool because he was unstoppable. In a day when we want drama and challenge in our movies, he is complete SHIT. Yeah, I called Superman shit. I know that he'll encounter kryptonite and be weakened and then someone get away from it and come back stronger and beat the villain. ZZZZZZZ. The Superman dies story might be interesting but as a typical event film, a lot of people would be let down by this radical story. And yeah, I know I didn't bother with paragraphs. Fuck you all. And this project is shit and lame and always will be. The first film was ONLY good because it pushed the bounds of special effects, the story was shit, costumes were cheesy. In todays world, Superman has no effect on special effects, it's all been done, it's not spectacular. There's no room in todays world for Superman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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We already have a perfect Batman/Superman movie and it's the three parter from the Animated Series that had Joker and Luthor teaming up to kill Superman. And APOKOLIPS NOW is the best Superman movie.
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Sep 17, 2008 1:08:41 PM CDT
COEN Bros. would be nice MORI, but I heard who Millar is pitchin
by amateurscientist
first off, nice EDITORIAL Mori. good pitch, even if it's essentially a 3rd party/3rd person pitch. interesting choice, and while I haven't read "IT'S SUPERMAN" I'm sure if it has a flavor of the Fleischer cartoons, then yes, the COENs are the guys. and they would be a very cool, very interesting choice.
but would they do it? I think they WOULD be interested in a superhero movie. I think they WOULD want to do Superman. but, with all the tangle that's involved in doing a movie of that scale... I don't think they would WANT to. seriously. these aren't hired guns, and unless THEY CAME TO THE TABLE WITH THE PITCH, I don't think they would be interested. you know, you work in Hollywood... dealing with those... people... is a quagmire. an endless struggle where you often feel like you're sinking no matter what you do. then, when it's big money on the line, and their "tent pole" properties, everyone with a tie on has an opinion and give "notes" which ultimately add up to marking their territory, like a dog peeing on a tree, just so they can have something to point to and say they did it.
again, that's something I don't think the Coen's are down to be bothered with.
now, you may know something that we don't. you may be tickling with a hint, in hopes of sparking a fan reaction to the positive, or testing the waters before the Coens go in for a pitch. perhaps, if the fans give overwhelming support on this site -- on just the IDEA of such a thing -- that may be the clout the Coens might need to make the naysayers at Warners think twice.
but... if not, then I can share what I've heard.
Mark Millar has recently toured promoting his latest comic WAR HEROES and there was some behind the scenes guys afterward who he was talking to about the whole Superman pitch that "could" happen.
everyone was asking who his "big american director" was that he was talking about and hinting at. some had said it was the director of Incredible Hulk (even though that guys said it wasn't him), and others were asking if it was OLIVER STONE (because he had wanted to do a version of Superman at one time but never got too far).
Millar -- after a few drinks and a lot of pressing SAID WHO IT WAS.
and the "big director" is not who you might think.
Millar said: HIS PITCH WOULD BE DONE WITH RICHARD DONNER AND HIS WIFE.
I suppose that makes for a very exciting idea, or, maybe people think Donner -- who is rather old these days -- has been there and done that. but you never know.
I'd love for you to see if you can get that one verified.
until then, I'm gonna think of a Coen Brothers Superman and imagine how they would pull that off. I'm gonna read IT'S SUPERMAN and see what's what. I hope it's as good as you say, cause a live action SUPERMAN-FLEISCHER CARTOON, even made modern, would be VERY COOL, and most importantly, FUN. -
Edible panties.
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Supes is justa baby when Jor-El sends him to Earth. Why not have Brandon Routh play Supe's dad. I wouldn't mind seeing a lil more Krypton plot. It was supposed to be a glorious civilization before it was wiped out.
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Cocky 'humanitarian' who wants to make the world better HIS way. Billy Zane has a great air of superiority. Im on the Clancy Brown bandwagon as well. His Lex is as menacing as cancer.
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isn't Lois Lane. She looks/acts/walks/talks/smells/fucks just like I imagin lois Lane would. I mean guys, she's the one I want to play Lois most most most of all ...or Charlize Theron
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Sep 17, 2008 1:19:05 PM CDT
it'd be easier to give my main man bruce timm a live action gig.
by ironic_name
.than to get the coens to make something not either cartoony or morose.
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Man of steel!
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Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
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then I'll have to say that often the fanboys don't have vision either. lots of fanboys are saying guys like Zack Snyder ONLY BECAUSE he's recently made some pretty pictures with superheroes in it, but that doesn't mean he understands Superman. these SELF-SAME fanboys here at this site BASHED THE HELL out of Heath Ledger as a choice for Joker UNTIL THEY SAW IT, and now they're raving about it. come on. Warners, what it takes is a very TALENTED writer/director or storytelling team, that you can see has the potential to pull off imagination-filled imagery AND a passion and understanding of the character and the story to be told. NO ONE can predict who that could be. CHRISTOPHER NOLAN understood Batman. he knew what he wanted and how he wanted to do it, but so did David Goyer and when the two of them tackled the project, the time and place was right. who can I say fits that bill these days? again, no idea. but I would sure love to see someone like PAUL THOMAS ANDERSON reign it in and channel his talent into something as powerful and iconic as SUPERMAN. (*he's not "above" it, he loves effects, and can seamlessly add them into his pictures, and command A talent to work with him. also his mentor Robert Altman - a profound "arthouse" director - also did the splendid POPEYE, which Anderson even winked to in his PUNCHDRUNK LOVE film.) P.T. Anderson would be an AMAZING choice!
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...been tokin' that pineapple express a little too much lately...
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I have an opinion, but this far down on the list no one will get around to reading it. Screw it.
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isn't Lois Lane. She's got the attitude to keep a nerdy farm-boy in check.
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I heard it from his (Mark Millar's) mouth. now... he could've been too drunk, or planning his own coup to find out who's leaking rumors (y'know, say Donner in one region, say Ratner in another, say McG in another and see what comes back on the internet and know who's leaking it...) and if so, then the jig is up and I'm fucked cause... I was the man sittin' next to the man (as the saying goes). but I'd sure like for TheRealMoriarty to fact check it and see... or not. actually, the more I think about it, nah. don't. I guess I kinda blundered by spilling those beans and if I could go up and edit and delete the post maybe I would. but... y'know, it would be cool. of course, like I also said above: I would really like to see someone like P.T. ANDERSON to take on a SUPERMAN movie... I think he would be the not obvious, but HIT-THE-BALL-OUTTA THE-PARK choice for the job.
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yeah, but not quite in the literal way of this glorified blogger piece. you see, the thing is, Superman is, lest we forget, symbolic of America. America right now is a land bereft of heroes and ideals, really. there's no longer the optimism, promise or greatness in the image of America, at least not in the present, one would hope it returns one day. with a disjointed America, any Superman, subconsciously or blatantly, is doomed to fail. that and you can't seem to have just noble, perfect heroes in films anymore, which is where the Donner Superman won. i say we were lucky to have the 70's Superman, we fucked up our chance with SR, let's just leave it for the next generation to have a go.
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Yeah I spelled it wrong. Screw you, pedant.
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http://tinyurl.com/5zq6al
she is covered in dense fur, thats one. -
the father from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
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cup David Silver's balls in public, you telemarketer's wife!
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...only an act. He is not a true conservative. He is actually a comedian making FUN of the right wing nutjobs on FOX. I thought this was obvious...
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The fat girl from Facts of Life
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I imagine that would be quite a different movie. Werner Herzog could play Jor-El. Or Lex Luthor.
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*howling at the moon*
Wolfman Jack! -
red yellow and blue is Ecuadorian. hes an alien. he neither owns a gun, nor a pickup.
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Once he's done with Where the Wild Things Are.
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the mongoloid from napoleon dynamite name o' pedro.
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Sep 17, 2008 2:08:03 PM CDT
I like the idea, but I think the Coens would be more likely to d
by lang the cat
The Boys just seems more like a Coen film. Flawed heroes, weird bad guys. I could even see Brandon Routh getting out from under Superman by playing a hero who is a pedophile that The Boys kill. Henry Rollins as Billy Butcher, Simon Pegg as Wee Hughie (of course), Ving Rhames as Mother's Milk, Lambert Wilson (the Merovingian from Matrix) as the Frenchman and Janeane Garofalo as the Female.
I would like to see a good Superman, but it would require a flawed Superman. Someone fallible and unsure of himself. Powers that are unstable or just a bad judgement call that makes him question his ability to do the job. You always have that with Batman, because he is just a man, but Superman is a god dropped from the sky with rock solid mortal values and the strength to allow him to never question them. Loss, failure, weakness and errors in judgement make us uncertain. These are the things we rarely see with Superman. The cunning of Lex Luthor is to bring these traits out in Superman. Make him think he can't control his strength or Heat Vision; make him believe he failed to save someone; kill someone he loves (please make it the little boy!), these are the ways to make Superman human, vulnerable. It is the way Lex has come closest to winning against Superman. Superman only wins because he falls back to that farmboy/boy scout ethic that Batman admires and sees as Superman's greatest weakness. -
she's italian. Superman's heat vision would neutralize ALL* body hair. *Except for the landing strip. Aha! double meaning because he can fly! Milano 08!
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...where five different actors play the Kryptonian in five different stories, like Todd Haynes' Dylan film "I'm Not There." One of those actors should be black, and one of them should feature Supergirl. It would be like the old pre-70's issues where one issue contained several stories. We'll call it "Waiting for Superman" after the Flaming Lips tune...
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But rather from the POV of an Earthling, a regular person who idolizes Superman? Or wants to be like Superman? And somehow, they become connected, perhaps Supes saves said person, and we see Supes saving the city and the world through this person's eyes...
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I just saw Burn After Reading last night and hated it, much in the same way that I hated O Brother and Intolerable Cruelty. So I'm having trouble mustering up enthusiasm for the Coens right now. But they did just unleash No Country on us last year and that is one of my favourite efforts by them. So we know they've still got the ability to pull off something brilliant, if only they quit dicking around with their soulless, unfunny comedy bullshit. But maybe that's just me. Anyways, I thought I'd throw my thoughts into the mix and say that I am all for a period Superman. I dug the Metropolis production design for Singer's Superman Returns, but the movie was still modern. Oh, and it sucked, too. So that was a problem. But I think a full-on period Supes flick would be wonderful. As for possible directors, someone above mentioned Aronofsky, whom I think is a great choice. And I strongly believe that the Wachowski Brothers would fuck our brains inside out if they got their hands on this material.
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What happened to the Hughes Brothers of From Hell and Dead Presidents fame?
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Featuring Krypto the Super Dog, Superboy, Supergirl, Supes himself, Bizarro, and of course, the Kents and the Els.
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This is one character I don't think can be effectively reinvented in a modern way. If anything he should be representative of old-fashioned American values and not this stalker crap that Bryan Singer gave us. He's a boyscout and we like him that way. I think an excellent representation of this attitude is in the Superman: Doomsday DVD in the big fight to the death scene. Granted the rest of the movies wasn't as strong but those fifteen minutes were heroic and moving. Get a movie that can build up properly to a climax like that and you've got a winner.
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...is one giant robot with Kryptonite breath destroying Metropolis.
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Brad Bird + Superman = Pro: All the heart and soul of Iron Giant, with all the action of the Incredibles. Con: No adult themes. Lois and Clark share a bumbling 5th grade level friendship. Luthor doesn't kill anyone on screen.Mark Millar + Superman = Pro: Minor changes to canon (real word adjustment: Organic web-shooters, Joe Chill is caught by cops, etc..). Excellent work with Clark and Daily Planet crew. Con: Incoherent, confusing action. Superman played by some douche who just looks cool in the suit.
Darren Aranofsky + Superman = Pro: Beautiful, imaginative, engrossing science fiction epic. Superman's powers are given meaning, and his desire to save mankind from itself is clearly presented. Lex is an amoral monster obssesed with "the alien" Con: Too slow for most fans, it gets lambasted as being 'gay'.
Michael Bay + Superman = Pro: Wall to wall action. Cities crumble and fall in the wake of Superman's epic battles with Brainiac (act 2) and BIGGER Brainiac (act 3). Lois is the hottest woman in the world. Con: Jimmy is the gayest stereotype in the world. All the Daily Planet stuff is clumsily played for laughs. As a result of fanboy bitching, the final act is 45 minutes of non-stop "Superman punches shit". Kids rejoyce! Audiences don't.
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is a bad idea for an adaptation in that it contains much of what people were bitching about with Superman Returns. Lack of action, excitement, flying, and a massive villain. It also contains a brooding, emo Superman.
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Of all options, (in my opinion) I think it's the best one. It's the simple answer (when including Brandon Routh). Gotham City is getting out of hand. It's time to send in the boyscout. And the Dark Knight is gonna bring him down a peg.
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The Coens would be totally wrong for Superman. Even if they don't bring back Singer (and they should), they need to keep Routh. There is absolutely no need for a reboot whatsoever. The basic setup is Superman/Clark, Lois, Perry, Jimmy, the Daily Planet. Why go through the whole origin thing again. We've already had Superman reimagined on TV as a romantic comedy and a never-ending teen drama. You can be sure Singer will ease up on the Donner homages in the sequel and he's always said he intends to bring in more action. I can't stand the whiny comments about Superman Returns. I could easily pick up on the flaws in the Spider-Man movies and the Nolan/Bale Batflicks (Bale's ridiculous Batman voice, for example), but I like those movies, and I'm not screaming reboot.
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Wrong!John Hamm would make a perfect Man of Steel. (And I don't even like Superman...)
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Knows the Coen brothers. Tell them about it.
Come on Coen's.
You've made enough personal films. Get on board. Inspire Millions. -
Ron Moss: Superman.
Emile Hirsch : Jimmy Olsen
Courtney Cox: Lois
Chief: Paul Hogan
Metallo: Vin Diesel -
In this new-fangled motion capture animation. Get Grant Morrison to write it, Millar never had an original idea that wasn't self-promotional. Just my 2 cents. But Moriarty's idea would rock.
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Because the world needs heroes. How many heroes do we have these days?
I remember watching Superman II soon after 9/11. I cried. Thinking how the world could use a hero right now.
We need a heroic Superman.
That's why Superman Returns was such a disappointment. He wasn't a hero. -
This idea is almost hauntingly stupid. I mean, what would the point be? It's not as if they're struggling to find people to fund their projects at the moment after the success of their last two films. I can hardly think of two directors less suited to director-for-hire studio blockbuster filmmaking. This 'It's Superman' book looks like it might be worth a read, but for now i'd rather the Coen's continue to follow their own path.
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Lex Luthor's portrayed as a John Galt style figure and David and Janet Peoples get first draft of the script. That's the beginnings of the perfect 21st century Superman movie.
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I don't want Bryan Singer or any of the creative team from Superman Returns back on this new movie.
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Jon Hamm would be great as superman (Draper is a similar character study). I don't want to see the Coens going there though. They're better creating their own worlds. I think instead whoever does it should look at the coens for inspiration in making a quality product. Singer's movie blows and is a mess, but a good superman movie inspired by other good movies is possible without the actual bros doing it.
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...given that I just caught Barton Fink at the New Beverly this past weekend.
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Tim Burton. Nicolas Cage. Make it so.
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Seriously. The Coens? Let them keep doing what they do. It's like 1/5 of their movies are really, really good and the rest are just average with really, really good bits hidden inside. And Superman doesn't need to be revitalized again. Let's give someone else a chance, eh? Because apparently WB can only do ONE DC film at a time (????). I mean The Dark Knight in 2008....and nearly later we have Watchmen. Ever see Marvel's slate? And WB has more potential with DC films than Marvel ever will. Green Lantern. The Flash. Supermax sounds really interesting. Do those. Then try Superman again. Let the characters simmer in the same universe and do a huge Justice League film a few years later. There's absolutely no point in shooting off round after round if you're not even trying to fucking aim.
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Sep 17, 2008 3:45:11 PM CDT
P.T. Anderson directing Millar's writing -- that would be cool
by amateurscientist
I like the idea of Aronofsky for a Superman picture (he was attached to a Batman Year One idea for a long while, but Warners relented because he wanted it to take place in the '70's). I just don't think he would reign in his style to fit the character. that's where P.T.Anderson would (again) be a really cool choice. and, like chosing Ledger for Joker, he's NOT the obvious choice, but he IS a talented ARTIST who can DELIVER EXCEPTIONAL WORK! that's the wish for me. as for the whole "me being worried cause of the beans I've spilled", here's the deal: I wasn't exclusively out with him, he was on tour with his book (comic) and doing signings and such. AFTERWARD, was willing to go for drinks with those who were hosting him (and whomever wanted to buy him drinks). no he wasn't DRUNK, but, I do think he was being a tad bit loose lipped with a few things (opinions and such) in a way that you're not when being diplomatic with your answers to the public. so, there were many people there, and when people asked THAT REALLY CARED, he was being kind of aloof, just to dig at 'em a bit (in good fun). but as the night wore on, and when it was asked by someone who clearly didn't give a shit, but was curious (and more interested in sports and shit) Millar said who it was: DONNER and his wife (XMEN producer Lauren Shuller-Donner). that's what he said and I tried not to let my mouth drop open. but it's what HE said. I didn't press him further to see if it was true, cause again, if I had, I'd have been outted as being one who would spill the beans (as I have) which is something he DID NOT want to do UNTIL IT WAS A DONE DEAL. the hope really is that however it's handled, it's done to the proper effect. there's so much out there that we all don't like, but only a few areas where we clearly AGREE, and that's what the Warners are looking for to help guide them. anyway, my wild wish and hope is P.T. ANDERSON. what's anyone have to say about him as a choice?
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Did everyone forget that the Superman Adventures comic book, the comic based on the Bruce Timm series was written by Millar for years? He did some really solid stuff on that book. As long as he doesn't turn Superman into Wanted or Kick Ass (which I don't think he would), then he's not a bad choice for the writer. Let's see what the kid has got!
As for "It's Superman" - it's a good book (it reads like "Smallville" for the 1938 version of Superman) but I don't think it has enough action that a real Superman movie needs. And I don't think that the Coen Brothers would be a good choice. Not that they aren't great, but I don't think they'd nail the action a movie like this needs.
Regarding a 1938 version of Superman, now don't get me wrong, I love this version of the character. He's pissed off and bringing justice to the people and all about social change. I remember when I first saw "Sky Captain" I was saying "God-dammit, why can't someone make a Superman movie that looks like this? The Fleischer cartoons are a good place to get tone and feel - I would LOVE to see Supes beating the crap out of some giant old-school robots - but I don't feel it's right. Superman is about HOPE and POWER IN THE FACE OF POWERLESSNESS and if we ever needed that message, it's now brothers, not disguised in 1940's clothing to alienate audiences who don't get it.
I think the last Superman was a huge flop in what is best about Superman as an property, an idea, the myth - it lacked heart, power and excitement (although the "catching the plane" sequence was cool)
Here's a team for directing it that might get it - The Wachowski Brothers - when I saw Matrix 2, I thought "this Neo vs Agent Smith fight would be perfect if it were Superman vs. Lex Luthor" - as long as some producer doesn't give them free-reign and makes sure they keep it tight unlike Speed Racer.
As for villains, let me put in my vote for BRAINIAC. He's a classic, people know the name of the character (even if they don't associate it with Superman) and he's downright creepy in the latest issues of Action Comics.
We definitely could use another Superman, but please give us what's in the comics. Not Dark Knight (no matter how brilliant it was) and definitely NOT Superman Returns. -
...is another reason why a Coen Brothers Supes movie would fly IMHO(excuse the pun).
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Moriarty I think you could be right.
I've been a Superman fan since I was a five year old reading the comics my dad got me hooked on. It was a pretty bad period for Superman too (1970's).
I remember coming home from school and seeing the trailer for Donner's original; the birds eye shot of flying through the clouds, the spoken words 'You will believe a man can fly' and then the title 'Superman The Movie'.
I swear I have never been so excited by a trailer in my entire life. Donner didn't let me down either...well apart from the whole Lex Luther plot to get prime real estate.
I loathed Singer's mess. I almost walked out. Where the hell was Superman? The action?
Lex was even trying to grab prime real estate again.
I'm also a lover of the better Coen bros films (I hated the way they shit all over The Lady Killers. McKendrick and Balcon must be spinning like they're on spits in their respective graves.
I never put the two together though. Now it all makes sense. -
Sep 17, 2008 4:10:41 PM CDT
I can think of two choice directors and you'll probably hate me
by drewlicious
One choice I like to throw around for a character like this is Ron Howard. Say what you will about the man, and you all have, but the man understands narrative and he understands triumph. I practically cheered at the end of Cinderella Man and I'll bet he could get a ton of people to do the same for Superman.
My other suggestion: Edgar Wright. The man understands genre so well that he's been able to emulate and parody it almost effortlessy practically creating a subgenre in the process. For him to direct a Superman film would probably result in something so uninhibited it would be like watching one of the old Richard Donner movies. -
... where you drunk when you wrote this?
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Is this an act, trying to act stupid so as to mock the Democrats, or are you 12? Either way, I agree with Liberal Warrior, please go away. Sorry dude, just trying to keep things real.
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You won't find a bigger P.T. Anderson fan than I am, but the last thing I want is his wasting his time on something like the Superman franchise, especially given the time that he typically takes between films. The attention he devotes to original storytelling and characterization demands something that is more *his*.
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That would be a DREAM TEAM come true, wouldn't it? If only these two directors could get along and apply their specific talents, as to what they do best, to a Superman flick? Give the special/visual/computer generated effects...and explosions and action choreography...to Michael Bay. Leave everything else to P.T. Anderson. THAT is what a great Superman story feels like. And that particular "what if" is total bliss.
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Now that would have been something to see.
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Sep 17, 2008 4:19:54 PM CDT
David Fincher to direct SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Thats the only way I'd ever pay to see a Supes film again. Coens? Fuck no....I would never EVER pay to see a Coens film in the theater.
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remove the spaces from and you get a pagebreak. Please guys, use these. My eyes are starting to hurt.
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To be fair - I have only read one thing by him: WANTED.
If that is any indication of his level of IQ and storytelling then that's the only thing I will ever read by him.
Twice used toilet paper has better writing than that rag.
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If J+E were into this type of project, I'd be thrilled. Considering they've been doing basically their own projects for 25ish years, and are coming off Oscars and a #1 picture, I don't see them suddenly running to do a big-budget studio effects spectacular.
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"I don't mind when you want to make new law, Norman, but next time I wish you'd choose a more deserving client."The Coen's shouldn't be involved with Superman. From their body of work, its obvious their passion is for small films with quirky characters and circumstances. I do appreciate the idea, however, as I had never considered their influence. But now that I have, I imagine something more akin to Burton's "Batman".
I think Nolan has whet the appetite of comic-dom to embrace large stories, featuring many characters and logical plot movements. The Coen's quirkyness just doesn't fit for me. Still, kudos for stirring the pot, Professor. -
The guy the re-vamped the Bond franchise, twice! He's done action, he's done iconic characters (Zorro and Bond) and even though he's had some misses, he has also worked with relatively modest budgets. We always look to the same old same olds, Spielberg, Bay, McG, blah blah blah. I like MC well enough and just like how Nolan surprised us, so could Martin.
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Leave that turd right where it belongs, lodged squarely in Harry's mouth, which he got from kissing Smith's ass far too often.
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Don't worry, I'm a bleeding-heart liberal.
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I am Dem. F*ck McPalin
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kidding. I don't care about you guys. Except for HugePrawn and his vampire rant.
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The one where he lands up in Soviet Russia instead of the US. I don't mind seeing something different for a change until you get the original all worked out.That said, I'm now going to watch Speed Racer on blu-ray again. It's nice to enjoy something different for a change.
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Writing screenplays seems like it would be an interesting and satisfying exercise. But what do I know, I've never had the attention span to write anything longer than a haiku. Maybe I should go back in time and write silent-movie screenplays. Seems like that would involve less, like, actual writing.
Anyway, props to the Coens for continuing to crank them out. -
And go with CG Animation! Give me a Kingdom Come movie with a Superman who looks exactly like Alex Ross' vision!
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can't doa CGI Superman. Critics won't respect it
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Cohens would do a good old style period old suit Superman and get Bruce Cambel to workout like fuck and you'd have a comedy classic on yer handsAs for who should do Superman NOW as big and BoLD and Fun as it needs to be I can't think of anyone except possibly The Guy That did Ironman John thingy, He got the fun and FX right. As much as I thought Hancock was a bit cock it had some bigger destruction and stuff than Singers effort, Who else... I can sort of see why McG (god that's still so embarrassing to type!)woul dbe concidered as Charlies Angels 2 or 1 or whatever one I saw was big and Bold but Brash and silly. So no-one has ALL the Elements Oh! Waite maybee Peter Jackson coz he can handle the Scale or maybee Del Torro in a few years but i would happily waite til folks caught up after practicing a bit more unless of course Nolan would do it coz that guys is the only fricking 100% dead on cert for a Superhero movie these days and there's only one of him!
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is really the only Superman I wanna see. Christopher Reeve is the quintessential Superman and I for one am wanting to see something different, not just another imitaion of him.
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Yikes!!
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don't let Seth Rogan write a Green Hornet, Pineapple Express was a steaming turd of broken promises.
That script reached for virtually every plot point like they were stuck on the top shelf.
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its too big for 1 movie, too specific for a whole trilogy. I say an HBO miniseries would rock. CGI would work dandy.
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Damn you Mr. Nice Gaius! you beat me to the punch (I did a page search for "John Hamm" to see if someone had already posted that idea). I've always wanted to see a Superman that is a bit older and wiser... I think what Alex Ross does with the character visually is more in line with what my take on the character should be and John Hamm fits the bill. To bad he would never do it... the guy has too much credibility with Mad Man to dawn the blue tights.
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Go Golden Hurricane!
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All of you... This is retarded.
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samurai sark - I liked your post a lot. HugePrawn: WTF?Anyway not everyone is just posting without reading. Doesn't that make you feel better?
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Too old. Too old-looking, anyway ...
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"Superman Returns" was a lovely film, rich with strong storytelling and character development. Singer re-established the World's Greatest Superhero in a majestic way and would have likely followed with an epic, action-packed sequel. But no. All the so-called true fans who lurk on Web sites such as this and throughout much of the Internet complained "Not enough action!" Aren't many of you complainer types the same ones who are often so miserable because our beloved heroes are routinely exploited by terrible productions and souless, action-heavy scripts? Yet when a superhero film with true soul and real ideas comes along you spit on it and shoot off with your typical tirades? Where's the honesty in that? "Superman Returns" has its flaws, it's not perfect, but it also has many merits. And those merits should be celebrated and provided an opportunity to flourish in a sequel.
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so much to play with that, the guy that would be the hero if Superman didn't exist.
and give us a villain who poses a physical threat. will we ever see darkseid? -
Everyone in Hollywood knows your article on the JJ Abrams script buried that film.
I praise you for your vision for the rebirth of Superman. It's right on the money. I hope the suits read this and the Coen brothers read this.
Visionary.
Your article on Superman makes up for your little girl feud you had on AICN a few weeks ago. -
Uh, no. Love their films... but no. Maybe Drew meant the Wachowski sisters, instead.
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This was a good book and a fun read but it would be a TERRIBLE film. It would be a terrible film for exactly the same reason that you cited for why Singer's film failed: it does not hold true to the mythos.
Superman in It's Superman was basically a super strong idiot up for manipulation by those smarter than he was. While it was an interesting "Elsewhere" type story, the Superman we know and love is not only a good guy, he is generally not hired idiot muscle.
That being said, the best superman to day bar none is the TAS version. While that cartoon is not even in the same league as the 90's Batman animated universe, the superman animated series when taken with superman's arcs in Justice League is hands down the best incarnation of the character IMHO. Powerful. Good. Smart. Fallable (Flash preventing him from vaporizing Luthor anyone?).
If they want to do another movie they must do several things:
1. Have a villan worthy of superman. No bumbling idiot villans with inane plans. Look to TDK to see a villian that is equal to its hero. THAT kind of equality is what Superman movies have NEVER had. Closest was superman II which had different issues.
2. Superman is larger than life, he needs a larger than life problem. The world CLEARLY needs to be in MAJOR danger..which lead to the Darkseid argument. Most viewers are not familiar with Darkseid and therefore he is PERFECT for the big screen.
3. Cast appropriately. STOP casting 22 year old looking actors. Superman is CLEARLY at least in his 30's if not 40's and lois is the same. Audiences can sniff out things that feel false and Lois just reeked in SR. Routh did fine I thought actually, even if he was young.
Finally, for those that dont get Superman. Superman is the "what if" fantasy. He is the character that one might dream of being someday, even if he is "ridiculous". if you havent dreamt of being fundamentally good, special underneath your drab suit, able to fly, or to lift small mountains then, well, I pity your imagination.
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I would eat out The Bates!!!
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I'm not sure if I'd like it, but I'd definitely go see it.
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The Coens doing Supes is kind of like Robert Altman doing Popeye or David Lynch doing Dune. In other words, aside from a cult following, it's not going to make anybody happy.
Personally, I've never really much cared for Superman or any DC heroes. The only vision of Supes that I've ever bought into was the one in Miller's Dark Knight Returns--of Superman as a hypocritical alien with god-like powers who plays the part of a weapon for the US military so that we don't destroy him. OK, bring that story on with Mickey Rourke as old Batman, and I might be interested.
That said, is anybody else just tired of superhero movies by now? They're all basically the same structure: big villain + conflicted hero = big fight at the end. For all the apples in Gluggenhaggen, there'll never be a superhero movie better than the comicbook. (Zack Snyder prove me wrong!) -
When he was in his 30's Steven Spielberg would have been the perfect director for Superman...Today, shit, why not Paul Thomas Anderson, David Gorden Green, or hell, I'd pay 10 bucks to see the Coens do Superman. I'd love to see Martin Scorsese, or FUCK....STANLEY FUCKING KUBRICK'S SUPERMAN!!!!!! That would've been a sight, huh? Hey get 5 top Director's...I'd pit Spielberg, Peter Jackson, The Wachowski Brothers, The Coens, and for a wild card George Lucas(snicker) in a SUPERMAN-OFF, open them all on the same day, and see which one makes the most dough, and thus the best film. The loser's prints will be destroyed and be doomed to exist for all eternity as illegally downloaded entities, while the winner lives forever in GLORIOUS BLU-RAY!!
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The WW-coming-to-man's-world story would be more interesting if Supes was there to greet her. The best part of DC's New Frontier was the whole Superman/WW interaction, esp. the parts where he's critical of her attitudes toward men. Think of it this way: You get to introduce the concept of a shared DC universe, you introduce Wonder Woman, you put something in for men and women and the battle of the sexes, you avoid the same old same old in regards to both Supes and WW (live-action). Oh, and stick with Brandon Routh and Megan Gale. And get GEORGE MILLER!!!! Or the Wachowskis.
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You know it would be awesome! His friends have told him he has talent, and when he sees his work in his minds eye, it looks amazing! Fuck the Coens and PTA... JDP, bitch!
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Right on! Jon Hamm has got the chisled features that just fit right in with so much of that classic Superman artwork. In fact, he's kind of a dead ringer. And as he's been demonstrating on MAD MEN, he's got great acting chops. He could definitely bring a more mature vibe to the character. But I do agree, the chances of him taking on such a role are slim.
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Bigot.
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...the Wachowski's and Coens, and add James Cameron and Martin Scorsese. These are the top 5 directors working today who are guaranteed "legend" status in one way or another.
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...we know you're still out there.
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--I really don't want the UGLY LOIS LANE pattern to exceed all previous incarnations with Frances McDormand in the role.
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I saw the premier at Con last year and, while I agree with you that the actual DOOMSDAY segment is pretty outstanding, I found everything else about it is sorely disappointing. I thought Baldwin, Heche and Marsters were all awful in their roles voice acting. Also, when a shirtless Lex mounts Superman and asks, "Who's your daddy?"--that was...pretty damn gay. And not in the good way.
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I can't believe I never thought of that, but yeah, I agree, they would pretty much be the perfect choice. Wow, I REALLY hope that happens. Gotta read the book too.
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...is EXACTLY why studios and production companies slap AICN with review embargoes. Posting wishful thinking like this isn't journalism, and only sets up people for more disappointment when a new movie is released that doesn't match expectations. From now on, a segment of fanboys out there are going to dream of seeing a Coen Bros. "Superman," even though it's just one man's unsubstantiated daydream, so no matter what movie gets produced in the meantime, they'll say it raped their childhood.
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Everyone said his vision of Superman was too radical and wouldn't have worked. Well, after Singer's virtual remake of Superman: The Movie, we need a radical take on Superman. Just no Nicolas Cage, ok?
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...from you. I read the entire article you wrote 6 years ago about the JJ Abrams abomination, and loved it. I read every word of this piece, and I felt like it rambled and made little sense. You think the Coens would be an ideal choice for Superman? Really? I didn't realize that Superman was about ironic endings. Thanks, but I don't want to invest a couple of hours following the saga of Superman only to find out that Lois Lane gets shot in the face by a random mugger for no apparent reason other than the directors feel like they can jerk you around like that. Seriously, I think it's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. I think I'd rather see Brett Ratner take a swing at this. Hell, maybe even a Spike Lee joint - and those are directors that I don't much care for.
Looking back at that old article, it's funny to see people slamming Warners for being out of touch with characters and Fox getting praised for the upcoming "Dare Devil." If they remake Superman, it should be a complete overhaul that turns a very blind eye to Donner's movies. If they're looking to make a franchise - and assuredly they are - they should introduce Brainiac into the destruction of Krypton. It'll add to his background when he comes to destroy Earth. Doomsday could be introduced, but I don't think he'd be an ideal nemesis for the first movie. I'm not a big fan of Superman or his villains, so it's tough to pick out a good one for a set-up reboot movie. I've never been a big Lex Luthor fan, but it's mainly because movie producers just don't get him or his motivations. I think the best-written Lex Luthor - and the only one that I've ever thought was a halfway decent archenemy - I've read (and I say this as someone who barely reads Superman, so forgive me if I'm off-base) is Mark Millar's Red Son Luthor. I could completely understand Lex from Millar's writing. I could understand why he hates Superman, why he feels so driven to destroy him, and the sort of mastermind nemesis he was for Superman. I love the idea of an archvillain who can push the hero to his limits, just like Joker did in TDK. While Superman is unfortunately limited by his limited rogues' gallery, a well-written Lex could be a sufficient archenemy for a first film. -
It might be happening in animated form. Warner Bros has a direct to video department and they have optioned the rights to pretty much every notable graphic novel DC has to offer. So they're considering it along with Killing Joke as well.
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after Moriarty's review of Abrams script. Did it play a part in that film not getting made? If so, how? What meetings happened and decisions made based on Moriarty's review? That to me would be the cool news in this story. Power-of-the-press and all that. Gives me hope that not only does the industry listen, but things then actually HAPPEN.
Otherwise, should things be as I suspect (because I'm a cynic), and decisions don't get made because of things written on websites, then this Superman article, the "I'm not going to write about Star Wars again" article, and any other such articles that aren't reviews or interviews are really just stuff for Moriarty's blog. Why doesn't he post it there? -
they both begin with "S". coincidence? i don't think so!
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It's that he is a BRILLIANT writer. I mean brilliant, so even when I disagree with him, by the time I'm finished watching his particular assembly of words... I want to agree.
But not here Mori... you are wrong, wrong, wrong! Unlike DoctorStopMo, I actually think this is one of the best articles I've read, but the idea that the Coen Bros could make a great Superman movie stops right there... "They could"... But as George C. Scott told Pal Newman in The Hustler, "I'm not saying you can't beat him. I'm saying you won't."
In my eyes, that would be a risk of catastrophic proportions if they were chosen to make it.
In defense of the idea, I will say that I never though Favreau had it in him either, and look what he pulled out of the hat. -
So not only does Star Wars suck because Lucas is trying to get back at you, but you also personally stopped J.J. Abrams from making a Superman movie?
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The fat guy from Blues Traveler.
It would be cool if Nolan gave a glimpse of Superman or a hint of him in the third Batman film to get people interested in the revamp. Maybe even just in Clark Kent form. That would be bad ass in my opinion. Bruce and Clark Kent just having a conversation and no mention of "Superman." But it lets the audience know that the character is revamped. No skinny 24 olds for S-man please. -
That's the first movie by Richard Donner, because Donner was channeling Spielberg hard in those days. So my take is that a Spielberg Superman would have looked very similar to Donner's version.
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Give Moriarty the chance to explain exactly what happened.
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Seriously? He is like baseball. Cool a long, long time ago but it's time has come and gone. Baseball is boring and so is Superman. And who is Moriarty?
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You're giving yourself WAAAAAAY too much credit, buddy. NO ONE thinks about you THAT much.
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George Romero knows America like no other. But since this is unrestrained bedlam...Michele Soavi!
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Red Son is fucking awesome. And I don't even like Superman.
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by Neil Gaiman directed by Alejandro Jodorowsky
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Ben Linus represents everything Kevin Spacey's Luthor should have been.
And sorry Singer, nobody thinks Superman fighting a giant rock is amazing. Not when people have seen him fight Darkseid or even kryptonite freaks on TV. A movie has to be epic...Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorow epic. -
Yay Mori!
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The Coen brothers revel in creating their own characters that are based on real people then blowing them up and out of proportion to make them larger than life. When we react to their characters, were reacting to the the kinds of goofballs that you see on the bus in Austin or La La Land.
Superman is a character that is larger than life and has to be brought down within the audience's scope through his humanity. The Coens wouldn't know where to start or finish with this kind of character, and probably wouldn't even want to try.
The problem with the Superman mythos is that he isn't human enough. He is too much of a boyscout. Who the fuck can relate to that? Who wants to? Wouldn't it suck to have all that power and not somehow get totally self-indulgent with it to satisfy personal needs or for fear of projectiling Lois down to the earth's core upon cumming in her.
That, I would think, would be a private hell and make a dramatic character arc. Many people do the right thing daily and curse their own kindness for lack of gratification and can relate to that conundrum. -
Sep 17, 2008 10:05:09 PM CDT
This movie needs Brainiac and Lex Luthor....................
by crackerfarmboy
It also needs some action unlike the corny borefest that Singer made.
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that didnt make any sense. ramblings.
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...They should do JIMMY CORRIGAN: THE SMARTEST KID ON EARTH. Right up their alley, including a truly perverse, disturbing take on Supes.
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Routh annoyed the crap out of me because he wasn't playing Superman. He was playing Christopher Reeves playing Superman. If I want to see Christopher Reeves playing Superman, I will pop in one of the first two movies into my DVD. Reeves' performance was great, but a little dated for today's action movies.
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They don't need to reimaging, reboot (although they need to change the tone), or redo his origins. They just need to move on from the same tired storylines and Luther as the main villian. Time for Brainiac or Darkseid. They could do the Doomsday/Death of Superman story, but I can't see them doing that in one movie.
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This should be their epic. You know they have an epic in them, and I follow your train of thought totally. I hate the backtracking that you did at the start of the article, but sometimes you have to swallow your pride to get someone to listen.
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Everybody. C'mon. Did we see the same movie? It worked! Oh yes and by the way, Bryan Singer is one of the best directors in the world in case any of you forgot. Oh right. I forgot. You realized he was gay an suddenly the X-men flicks weren't good anymore. Suddenly Apt Pupil and the Usual Suspects were forgettable. Tell it to your shrinks. Talent is talent.
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Superman Returns minus the dumb ass son thing was decent in the sort of way Spider-man 1 was...The part where Lex beats the ever loving shit out of him was brutal and a great moment in the whole mythos that made Lex, if even barely in this treatment, a villain worthy..
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You're the "Howie Long should play Superman" guy, aren't you? You know, "Anthony Hopkins saves the Joker with a hang-glider at the end of Batman" guy? The "just give me a shot and I could be one of the greatest fantasy filmmakers of all time" guy?
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Because TDK has oodles of script issues. Despite drooling fanboy nonsense-spouting sheep.
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American super hero's are all muscle and no dick.
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"I saved her twice last night, if you know what I mean."
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First let me say that, Moriarty i generally like all of your editorials, reviews, etc. But i totally disagree about the Coens handling Superman. I've yet to see anything they've done that proves this to me. It's going to be a high octane action which is nothing like their films. NCfOM includes this, not exactly energetic. They've never tackled scifi, aliens, the supernatural and i'm not convinced they can. And no, the drug induced haze scenes of Big Lebowski don't count. Could they handle the period piece of a young man groing up in Kansas and moving to the Big City in the 1930s? Sure, but if that's all Supes was about we might as well just have a great tale of the life and times of FDR. Plus we have a very well done current look at the adolescence of Superman in Smallville. Yes, it's not a period serial, but it doesn't need to be. It's a very in depth look at the young man who becomes Superman. We need a reboot. Singer was blinded by his love for Donner's great movies. He tried to carry the torch and simply couldn't. We need a Superman for modern day. NOT a Reimagining. NOT a Retooling. A Reboot. Show Superman hitting the scene now. Today. Show his backstory, so the kids of today can see where he came from, but don't dwell on it. Give him some sexual tension with Lois Lane. And most of all, give him and ASS KICKING Super Villian that will allow the Blue Boy Scout to STOMP his ASS into Next week with all his available power. Doomsday. Darkseid. Brainiac. Metallo (the big one.) Screw Lex. He's not fit to fight with the likes of Supes. Stay true to the core Mythos. And there's a basic premise for a badass Superman movie. Who to direct? Someone that can handle that type of Epic action. Steven Spielberg. George Miller. Wachowski Bros. Robert Zemekis. Brad Bird (i know, but look at Incredibles!)So there's 5 top director pics. Anyone of them i feel would do Superman proud. That's my 2 cents.
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before the 'superhero' backlash happens. And you know it will. The market is saturated with superheros. This will grow old, quick. I don't want it to.. but it will. Too many crappy versions.. to many remakes/reboots. I'm looking at you Fantastic Four.
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People come and go, including talkbackers. Some people change their talkbacker I.D. upon returning. And some people may have (or had) more than one talkbacker I.D. But I've only had one I.D. since my first AICN posting and (yet) I'm still here, still rolling with the punches. (Notice I've been punched twice, above, since my last posting.) But yeah, sometimes you do want to wipe the slate clean. But in having a rich AICN history, I can't let my regular followers down, now can I? (snort!) (And to talkbacker Lord John Whorfin, Howie Long is yesterday's news. But if they were making "KINGDOM COME" as a live action flick, needing an older Superman,...I dunno man. -heh,heh)
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I should point out that while many are clamoring for a reboot, I don't know how successful it would be. SR is a tad recent, and I'm not sure how well it would resonate with large audiences to do a reboot now, so soon after a film that was a relative dud.
I agree that Superman needs a great villain, but I don't know that he really has any that would make much sense in the context of a reboot-setup film. Introducing the likes of Darkseid or Doomsday would allow too little for their development and story arcs because so much of the origin has to focus on Superman. Those are characters that deserve due development on their own, and not a cursory, superficial treatment. Superman's rogues gallery is somewhat limited with only a couple of really cool bad guys that I'd like to see on screen, and like I say, Lex Luthor usually doesn't make my list of great supervillains. However, the portrayal of him in Red Son was absolutely brilliant, and I think that version of him would work well in a reboot/origin movie. Also, if done well, there could be multiple branchpoints to launch a franchise (introduce Brainiac with Krypton's destruction; involve Lex with Metallo's creation; and so on). -
Who the fuck are you people? Superman is the reason all other existing superhero comics exist including the Marvel ones. You mofos bitch about the last movie but you decide to forgive the flaws of X-Men and Spider "cry baby" Man. The fucking X-men didn't even have the right customs. " but we like it dark ...it's cooler like that " You are a bunch fucking sheep just because something is in style you follow. The action in the X-Men movies wasn't even that great if you think about it. The fight between Wolverine and Lady Deathstrike was cool for about a minute but that was it. The best action sequences so far were in the last Hulk movie. The problem with the Superman movies is that Lex Luthor has been in every single one of them. If you add a Doomsday or Darkseid you nerds would get the best action into film EVER! Maybe you'll be happy .... Maybe, since you like to bitch so much. Superman Returns had heart, but it did lack the action. That does not make SR a bad movie.
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Don't be ashamed. Those are your greatest hits, even if they're golden oldies.
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Visit us each week as we'll be dancin' to a NEW tune. :-D
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That's perfect! They Coens should make a sequel to Barton Fink where they play themselves checking into the Hotel Earle to try and bang out a Superman script.
"F@*# You! I've got a hundered other guys who can give me that special Coen Brothers feeling!" -
Do you mean the editorial "we" or the royal "we?"
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I'm not going to go overboard with what I'd like to see done in the eventual reboot, and I'm not going to defend my wish that Johnson is casted as The Man of Steel, because it's an uphill battle here. Complaints of his ethnicity, or his wrestling past arise nearly everytime I bring this casting choice up. But if you can look past that, and take into account Johnson's off the charts charisma, not to mention statue-esque looks, and most importantly him being an extremely popular figure with the kids. The same kids who post in non-geek forums...or slightly less geeky forums, and label Superman as "lame" and hard to connect with. By casting Johnson, you bring those kids in. You bring in fans of his who have been waiting for years for him to land a iconic role of this magnitude. You automatically assure movie audiences that you're taking efforts in finally updating a property that desperately needs an updating. You assure them that there will be more action, and not just two hours of lifting heavy objects. You get massive ammounts of press due to the casting of a Superman of color. Something that shouldn't be done just for the sake of doing it, but for the possibilites and tension it would bring to Clark's upbringing and life growing up in Smallville. It would actually improve the mythos. This is your last shot WB. At least for awhile. Don't listen to the communities of AICN and elsewhere. Don't try to recapture the "magic" of the Donner films. Make something new. Something different. You should know by now, the majority of people that frequent these outlets will go see the film regardless of how much bitching they do leading up to it. So you might as well try everything you can to bring in a new generation with a Superman for THEIR generation. But, take time in crafting a story and a script that will make any Dwayne Johnson naysayers say "hey, y'know what? I was wrong" after walking out of the theater the same way all those Ledger critics that were bashing him bfore TDK's release did after seeing it. You dropped the ball with Welling and Rosenbaum, don't let another potential great Superman pass you by. Johnson is your man. Do it.
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(Imagine a geek, stuttering as he explains...) Uh,...it wasn't a hang-glider. Umm,...you do have a very good memory, though. --It was, however, to be a Tim Burton styled rocket-pack...that went "Chiitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang",...after a cord pull-start (as on a gasoline push-mower.) --But yeah, I imagined Anthony Hopkins as the Killer Moth, in a near rescue of the Joker. (Moth cut the Bat-line in mid-air, dropping the gargoyle before losing his grip, which allowed the Joker to survive a short fall.) It seemed they wanted to bring Jack back for a sequel and I offered, what I thought, was the most logical way to do that. (And "Under the Wing of Batman" was the title, referring to the origin of Robin.) I'm amazed that anyone remembers, no matter what your feelings, good or bad. (The "suicide run" music from "DANCES WITH WOLVES" blended perfectly with that final drop of the Joker, just as I suspected when I did the audio mix, on my old VHS video camera, utilizing a stopwatch for timing.)
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Could he be Clark Kent? After seeing his performance in Southland Tales, I don't think so.
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...as an example for anyone's acting talents. Johnson's best work, I haven't seen Gridiron Gang or Get Smart yet mind you, is still the opening of The Rundown and Walking Tall. And I'm sure he could easily pull off any romantic comedy bits with Lois....if they go that route.
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...And what the hell, make it a MUSICAL, with music and lyrics by Tim Rice and Elton John. This sounds just the same as having the CB's do it. And hell, at least with either version we can have John Tuturo play a bad-ass General Zod!!
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But yeah... Johnson is Supes.
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Personally, I think Johnson's best work was in "Be Cool" as that gay bodyguard. He kinda pulled that role off a little "tooooo" convincingly, if you know what I mean......
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I mean I'm sure many people doubted that the guy who directed Evil Dead could make a good Spider-man movie. Who would've thought that the director of Made and Elf could make a good Iron Man movie? I mean I think it depends what you want from a Superman movie. I have not read It's Superman, but if you want a more Golden Age of comics Superman, fighting giant robots and all, like in the old cartoons, then I really think the Coen Brothers could kill that. If you look at The Hudsucker Proxy and have Jennifer Jason Leigh's character from that playing Lois Lane and having Paul Newman from that playing Perry White, you got a pretty great movie. Now they are both too old for those parts, but the style and vision is still there. But if you were going for a modern Superman, I don't know if they would be the right choice. I think it would loose the quirkiness. It really comes down to what kind of a Superman movie the studio wants. If they want a more classic, old school Superman, the Coen's are perfect. if they want a more modern Superman, I'd go with someone like James Mangold (why not?). If you want a huge over the top, over-inflatted movie, then get Michael Bay. If you want some dark, Dark Knight rip-off, get The Wachowski's or Darren Aronofsky. It all comes down to the right director and the right vision. Personally, I think Donner should get a second chance at it. He knows the character, he did a good job with the first one. If you get him and a great writer, with the right vision of Superman, it could be lightning striking twice.
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Keep Bret Ratner's fat ass away from Superman.
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For anyone who believes Superman is irelevant or boring, the sheer size of this talkback proves otherwise. It clearly shows there is a passion for this character. Now, the powers that be that "control" the creation of new flick, remake/reboot/sequel/prequel what have you, need to get off their asses and do something about it. Start something. Get the ball rolling, and for god sake, get it right.
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Sep 18, 2008 3:09:54 AM CDT
there is a really good looking superman movie [not fanmovie] rec
by ironic_name
http://tinyurl.com/4xjkx6
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I am one of the biggest Superman fans of all time and before Superman Returns (a movie I liked and saw four times in theater) I would have balked at your suggestion. But now...I welcome it. I'm sick of people defending Donner and his offspring Singer. They have made good but not great Superman movies. Superman is a Greek God. and those at Warner Bros. have forgotten that. Fuck John Williams and his Star Wars clone theme. Fuck his "boyscout in blue" mythologyg. Ramp this shit up. Give me a fucking kick- ass Superman. For all you fuckers who say Superman can't be dark..Fuck you! Any and every character can have a dark side. That's cinema. Superman can me big, action-packed, dark but reassuring, hopefull but serious, realistic but imaginatifully dreadfull. Give me the Godfather of Superhero movies. Something more than just a good guy in tights. It's possible, folks.
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Sep 18, 2008 4:30:40 AM CDT
The only way we will get the superman movie we want is to let ..
by kingoflight
tre stone and matt parker direct it, because lets face it those two don't give a fuck.
Whats so good about the coen brothers anyway ?
I can't say that after all these years of people yacking on about them that i've sourced out there movies to watch the. I've only ever watched them if they have crossed my path.
I don't hate them or anything like that but the movies they make are not gold dust to me. They are not special, some of the actors maybe but the movies as a whole NO.
Real reason why superman will never work as well as we all hope is that the only man to fill the role has passed away.
Same thing with batman we'll never get a batman film as good as the dark knight because of heath.
The only way to get the film we want is to reinvent the story .
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Sep 18, 2008 4:49:07 AM CDT
You want the Coen Brothers to make a Superman movie WITHOUT iron
by kiddae
I don't like your chances, genius.
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Add this subject line to my last one.
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Gotta eat.
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Sorry if this was already covered, but for the love of God please let geoff Johns take a crack at writing this script.
The man has been kicking @$$ left and right with his work on ACTION.
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It seems like a foregone conclusion at this point that they will let Superman Returns live alone, which is somehwat too bad because I thought Brandon Routh was very good. I didn't care for the script, though.
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Nor should they. The last thing they want to do is work with a +$100 million budget which equals nothing if not studio meddling and control. Also, the guys are simply too ironic to helm the adventures of such a sincere do-gooder like Supes. Sorry, Mori, you were way off mark on this story. I am guessing that what you really mean is that Deakins should work as the DP since the Coens have nothing to do with the way their films look. This is especially obvious in "Burn After Reading," their only film since "Miller's Crossing" that Deakins didn't shoot. That movie didn't look too impressive whatsoever.
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Very Very Good. But I had this odd feeling as I left the cinema. It was too long. But there was something else about the film too and I cant quite put my finger on it. I thought it was the scene with the car two car ferries. I didnt know where Nolan was going with that. The beginning was great ledger was perfect. I was annoyed with the way they treated rachel Dawes. But maybe they are planning Her return as catwoman. Joile is on that list. a batman on the run movie, doesnt sound like a good idea. Batman out of gotham? The movie was devoid of any emotion. There was no time for character development. It was not a fun film. Liv tyler cried all the time in the incredible Hulk. oh bruce bwah, bwah, bwah,
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And Optimus doing a poledance
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I heartedly agree about It's Superman being the basis for any future Superman outings.
It is a deeply enjoyable book and sets up a really believable world that Superman can live and breath in.
I actually thought that Superman Returns was a good movie but only as a part 1 of 3.
I saw it as The Fellowship of the Superman and that there was much more to come because it didnt really resolve its self.
Now that that trilogy will never see the light of day, it really makes Superman Returns pretty poor.
I whatched The Incredibles last night on TV after reading your Superman article and started thinking (dreaming) of one day watching a period piece superman set in the 40's or 50's using the beautiful American back drops of the south and New York.
I would also love to see an Alex Ross version of superman.
The fact is I think, the character is so deep, famous, powerful and important that he deserves to be treated with absolute respect and is worthy of multiple treatments. I understand that the studio want to get it exactly right, but It's Superman is exactly right.
In my ideal world, singer would finish and improve his trilogy.
The Cohens would make its superman.
Pixar would launch an Alex Ross DC universe starting with Peace On Earth.
And sony would go back and remake all of Ian Flemmings James Bond books to the letter and set them in the apropriate period, aswell as keeping up the Daniel Craig modern movies.
Do you know what I mean.
In my ideal world, there is more than one kind of Superman film being made at one time.
There are 2 James Bonds, Modern & Classic.
Lets face it, All the Roger Moore films could be done better.
This is the kind of stuff that I dont get to vent, let me know if you agree. -
Sep 18, 2008 8:17:52 AM CDT
Who cares when AVATAR is fucking our eyeballs in 2009?
by motoko kusanagi
huh?
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... is that there may not be very much in the way of sequel potential with the idea.
The whole point for WB to do Superman isn't to do one film; it's to create a whole, sellable franchise where there could be any number of films. I doubt that the Coens would be interested in getting locked in to doing sequels and I don't know if a period-piece Superman would lend itself to being conducive to sequels.
I don't know why you couldn't do both? Have what you'd call the "main" franchise and then do a specific film like a period film where the Coens for example could put their own spin on it? I get that you don't want to water down the character's appeal, but a film by the Coens for example would likely be so unique that it really wouldn't affect the regular franchise's marketability. It'd be like the Elseworlds concept. -
Sep 18, 2008 10:15:24 AM CDT
We are not allowed to tlak about "The Coens" unless we can spell
by smashing
Did the Bushes win another term and facism arive online?, I must have been alseep, like I was during any slagging of Superman Returns which is still the best Superman film to be made, its massive, classic and a respectfull movie. Like or loathe most of the critism leveled against it went like this "waa, waa its not Batman" or "waa, waa the director is a gay, so that makes the film gay too, waa, waa there was not enough explosions", fucking tools.
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Fucking cheap spell check.
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OK he acts like an emo motherfuck half the time so you might be fooled into thinking he's human with real person problems, BUT the long and short of it is that's he's an almost invulnerable, faster-than-a-speeding-bullet ALIEN from another world, which isn't relatable to the audience. Here's the other thing - the idea of Clark pretending to be a bumbling cunt in front of Lois and others instead of just being himself is not something the audience wants to buy either. In comparison, Peter Parker is completely himself in front of everyone. We as an audience are with him all the way. With Clark we are more on the outside. Lois is the character people relate to moreso than Clark. Oh fuck off all of you. We don't need a Superman movie.
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...you cunts. He's the reason superheroes exist. If it wasn't for Siegel and Shuster's creation, we'd never have Batman. If it wasn't for the Donner film, we wouldn't have "Spider-man". Superman deserves credit for all superhero achievements in entertainment. "He's too powerful" - Thats the point. All the power in the world, and he has to watch we small ants try to kill each other every day. He tries to save us by setting an example, but he also knows humanity is too stubborn to change.
"...the idea of Clark pretending to be a bumbling cunt..." - is the whole point of his secret identity. Without being a 'bumbling cunt', he'd have no attachment to humanity, and wouldn't care. He loves Lois, and the only way he can trust her is if she loves him as a weak, bumbling cunt. He could just tell her he's Superman, but how could he know if she loves him or the idea of him. People who say dumb shit like performing monkey have no idea what this character is about, and should stick to what everyone else thinks is popular so they are safer. Superman's an icon. It's ignorant to trash an icon. -
let's get things straight: it wasn't mori's article that brought JJ's supes down. It was the terrible script. They wouldn't risk it without leaking it first, and wherever it apeared, it would have been shot down by the fan community.
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But I just aint got the time right now. So for now let me just say:
"You're out of your element, Luthor" -
They always cast a "cute" guy who looks like he's in his mid-late 20s, and that's just NOT Superman. It's not how he was EVER portrayed in the comics, and it's pretty sad that George Reeves was the closest to the comics in terms of facial structure.
They need to cast a big MAN who is no younger than 35 years of age. He should look authoritarian-- Superman should look like the ideal 1950's dad turned into a flying, fighting, red & blue-clad demigod.
He should NOT look like an emo kid. He should NOT look "hip" or "young" or "cool". He should NOT look "cute", but he can most certainly look handsome (there's a huge difference). He should look rugged, like a guy who you'd damn well better listen to. He should also have a build that says, "I'm an athletic fellow."
Lois should always be a saucy, spunky, firebrand. Kate Bosworth wasn't Lois in Superman Returns-- Parker Posey was much closer to what we expected Lois to be. Margot Kidder had it down, too. The chick on "Smallville"? Not so much.
Lex Luthor is a bastard. He should come off as a smug, rich, powerful sonofabitch. He should be somewhat rugged-looking, and shouldn't be a comedy device; He should be MENACING. He should make the audience's skin crawl with hatred when they see him. He should feel like the CEO of a Very Bad Company, and he should seem like he's so damned smart that he's someone not to be trifled with.
Oh, and Superman's voice had better be LOW and powerful, but he should also be charismatic. No high-pitched boy voice, please. When he says something, people should feel compelled to listen. -
1) Singer took it seriously.
2) The key to a great Superman film is his inner problems. If he is completely invulnerable, then what's the point? Singer brought out his isolation, his feeling different, his being alone. We got moments where he is jealous, where Ma Kent greets him home, the scene where she is waiting outside the hospital is particularly toughing.
3) He got Superman right. Christopher Reeve left huge boots to fill. And Singer gave us change we can believe in. Routh did a great job. And the way the flying scenes and Superman's raw powere were handled were great--Singer went with understatement, which is the way to go.
4) A Lex we can believe in. Kevin Spacey is a great Lex.
I agree with the problems in the plot: Superstalker, child as murderer, inconsistent rules for Kryptonite. And the son of Superman creates problems that writers haven't dealt with yet (except for maybe Lara in Dark Knight Strikes again). It's unknown territory. It was handled fine in the first film--we just don't know where it will go.
I think Singer's mistake was that he stayed too much in Donner's shadow. He tried too much to go back to Donner's world. But as we all know, "there's no going back". Superman III and IV have changed things. Forever.
Stay with Singer and Routh. Superman Returns was good, if not Dark Knight great. If it were the first Superman movie out there, we all would have liked it a lot more. And if the next Superman movie misses, then Superman will go the way of Hulk into obscurity. They just need a good script. And there are plenty of stories to tell, as Bruce Timm has shown us again and again.
For those of you just wanting action action and more action, or I would say go watch Incredible Hulk again, which supposedly give the fanboys what we want. But of the Superhero movies that came out this summer, it's arguably the weakest one. Why? The director did not take the character seriously. And I for one am not interested in seeing another Hulk movie. Marvel had misses, twice.
Why we love Dark Knight so much is that Nolan made it his own film. He showed us things about Batman we didn't know. Moriarty was spot on to trash the first script, and is spot on to imply with his suggestion of the Coen brothers is that we need a director in there who will make Superman his/her own.
As for those who say "it should just be fun"--if you are talking about tone, I am there with you. If , however, you are saying that script, character and solid directing don't matter as long as there are flashy action sequences and special effect, then I disagree. -
And it's the most god-awful piece of shit you've ever heard!
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He was fucking excellent. If they decide to do a Hulk, and Reboot the cunting reboot , I'm done with it.
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Look no further.
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That was just too damn long and I lost interest half way through. I love my ADD, it saves me so much time.
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This was the book I was trying to find. I heard about it brieflyand my feeble attempts to find it on line failed. I'll be picking this up today.
"Hudsucker Proxy" is a vasting underrated film. Excellent choice with the Coens. -
why it was that I picked up this book a couple years ago from my local library. Maybe it was because I read your review back in the day....regardless, it is about the most perfect Superman story there is. It feels as real as Superman could ever be. Good call.
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Sep 18, 2008 12:49:21 PM CDT
I've been wondering so long that I emphasized it by spelling it
by mr. whoa
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A 1930s superman with Coens at the helm. Very good idea. Talkbackers have been sending their prayers for a period genre film to the Gods of Hollywood for a long time. How many talkback posts have their been that go something like, "they shoulda set Casino Royale in the 1950s." Why has Hollywood been so opposed to this idea, when so many fanboys support it? I presume it's because this idea HAS been tried, and it's never been pulled-off properly (ie, rediculously profitably). There's been The Rocketeer and The Shadow and League of Extraordinary Gentlement. But those don't count for me because those were vintage properties set in their vintage period. They aren't modern properties set back in their ORIGINAL periods. But, I say to Hollywood, there is an example that (sorta) shows that period genre can make money - Back to the Future II and III. Remember, BTTF II was released in 1989 and BTTF III was released in 1990, but they were both set (sorta) in 1985. Ok, they didn't show much of 1985 Hill Valley in Part III, but they showed TWO versions of 1985 Hill Valley in Part II. But the principle of my argument, that period genre has been done and can make money, is still there. So I repeat the call: Put Superman back in the 30s. Put James Bond back in the 50s. Heck, why not set Ghostbusters III during the early 90s high-tech boom, RIGHT before the crash! At the very least it would create a perfect set-up for a Ghostbusters IV...
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If not the Coens, how about David Mamet? I could very much see a 'great' period Supes movie with him at the helm. His little book, "On Directing Film", makes me think his style of working would translate well to a superhero movie.
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...Rebecca Pidgeon would play Lois Lane. She would slip into that role like ... uh ... [insert witty metaphor here].
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Legend has it that- somewhere out there- there's footage of Charles Bronson testing for the starring role in Superman: The Movie. They need to just dig that up and release it into theaters. It will be far better than anything Singer or anyone else could possibly create.
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Get Routh to play the dad and all will be good. I've seen him in other performances where he's not playing a handsome mannequin
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But what about the Wachowski Bros.? They get shit on but they totally get superheros and what makes them tick.
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...I kid, I kid!!!!
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because he might be occupied with making the Conan movie instead, apparently. Why won't Ratner just die!
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To mirror my earlier post ...
Wachowskis + Superman =
Pro: Intricate, well coreographed, kick-ass fight scenes. Deep meaning regarding messiahs and saviors. Very hot Lois, very hot Jimmy, very hot Luthor. Cons: Either too much, or not enough color. Slow introduction. Too much ridiculousness surrounding Lex's corporate plot to block out the sun. -
Cons: Can't forget to mention the out of place, uncomfortable domination sex club scene.
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Imagine though if Gordon is sidetracked by a new villain, The Riddler, who is murdering people and leaving cryptic notes. He'd have to turn to the man he's hunting to help him with the case, which could make for some creative drama. Throw Selina Kyle into the mix, and you have a much needed playful romance between her and Bruce. Rachel had to be eliminated to prove what the Joker can do, as well as make room for Catwoman. The Dark Knight is not a 'fun' movie, but neither is The Godfather. Not every movie should be fun... Batman is a dark character by nature.
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who would you rather see in 3, Riddler or the return of Ra's al Ghul?
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When I read this I knew that someone would say "The Coen's can't do action." But have you watched No Country for Old Men? I don't know if they're right for Superman, or not, but they can sure as hell do action.
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the only action in No Country was the action Moss got from that chick in the hotel. The rest was (well directed) suspense.
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I'd say the Riddler... because I don't think resurrecting Ghul really fits in Nolan's Batman films. So long as the Riddler is more of a Zodiac style killer, as others have suggested. But either way, I do think Selina Kyle is very important at this point... Bruce needs some romance.
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...every Superman movie in my opinion missed the mark because the casting was off. Superman shouldn't be a timid pretty boy. That worked OK for Reeves b/c it was a ground breaking performance...there was no precident.Superman should be a big, broad shouldered, barrel-chested, square jawed, imposing kind of guy. Someone who looks seems ageless...not young...but if you have to guess maybe mid to late thirties. Like Alec Balwin's build with Bruce Campbell's face. We can suspend disbelief that such an imposing figure could pass as Clark Kent without question ...hell, we've done it with the comics for the past 50 years.Oh, and get rid of the curly forehead lock. That is just lame.
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My point above is te same grief I have with Batman, and why I think Keaton's was the best casting choice. Not necessarily because he looked much like Bruce Way, but because he didn't have the sunken fish faced look like Kilmer or Bale.(Clooney on the other hand I think looked the most like Bruce Wayne should, but those movies are just too bad to even consider)
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Looks like a freakin cartoon character. Bruce Wayne looks like Christian Bale. His physique, face, and hair is dead on.
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Really good idea...they could provide a truly epic Superman movie with amazing action.
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I respectfully disagree: The truck chase and the dog, and the shootout in the streets were masterful action sequences.
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They seem to be the only house getting it right today. Nolan too, of course.
http://www.gamaniak.com/video-2822-presto-pixar.html
This brings me back to the days of Warner Brothers cartoons and good ol' Bugs Bunny. I miss those days.
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especially the shootout. But I still think they were more suspense than action. If Moss had a fight scene against the dog, it would've amped it up to an action scene However, since I didn't expect that level of directing from the guys that did Fargo, I will have to conceded that you may be right.
Josh Brolin for Supes anyone? His super-shield can be replaced with a "W" -
Ra's being immortal definitely conflicts with Nolan's theme. But his daughter could still run the League of Shadows. I would love for the Riddler to be a real intellectual match for Batman, uiltimately working for Ra's al Ghul to destroy Gotham (much like he used Dr. Crane)
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exactly. Although I would disagree that Spacey was a great Luthor... he was all camp, no menace. I don't know if it was the direction or the performance, but if comes along again he needs to cowboy the fuck up and represent a real threat. Still agree with you that Singer's the man for the job, though, especially with a better script.
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I've thought about her actually... that could be really interesting, so long as it doesn't come off like Die Hard With a Vengeance (third movie's villain being a close relative of first movie's villain). They'd have to get someone super hot to play her. And yeah, a Riddler that was actually smart and formidable would be nice, instead of Batman Forever's 1st grade level riddles. "It's a clock" *Batman rolls his eyes*.
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I liked that fella from Twin Peaks. He had that "square" quality I've always associated with Superman. For a movie I'd like to see an actor who can embrace those qualities.
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Sophie Marceau
Monica Bellucci
Marion Cotillard
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and the 18th letter of the alphabet is E... M, R, E... Mr. E. Yeah, Batman Forever had a lot of dumb.
Never thought of the Die Hard comparisons for bringing back the League of Shadows.... hmm... kinda makes me not want to see it now... kinda....
I just imagine the League of Shadows being a relentless pack of wolves, hell bent on destroying the corrupt city of Gotham to save the world. Talia leading that charge would be pretty compelling. -
I just imagine the League of Shadows being a relentless pack of wolves, hell bent on destroying the corrupt city of Gotham to save the world. Talia leading that charge, ((while wanting to make Bruce Wyane her babydaddy)) would be pretty compelling.
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Uh, we live in a time when people shell out money to watch garbage like "Superhero Movie" and "Meet the Spartans," a world where "Saw V" is not too far from coming out. More than one Superman movie at a time would confuse the largely retarded populace.
And for the record, the Wachowskis suck at everything. They are a worse choice to direct than either the Coens or Ratner. -
He demonstrated great understanding of the importance of hope in "Children of Men", while delivering very kick ass action scenes and intimate dialogue. Superman should be a masterpiece of equal measure.
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That is some boring shit! Hi I am from another planet, but because of your yellow sun, now I am super! I can fly (faster than a speeding bullet I might add), I can shoot rays from my eyes (which are also can see in x-ray vision), I can stop bullets because I am made of steel, I can freeze things by blowing on them with my super breath, I can fly into space (-455 Fahrenheit and no atmosphere, no problemo). Basically I am indestructible except for these little green radioactive rocks from my home planet (they make me feel yucky), all that plus I fight crime, save humanity and I am a virgin.... Wow, now I get it, I mean whats not to love?!?
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Why not Peter Jackson?
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He specifically said that the second one would be all sci-fi bad ass fighting. Why wouldn't we want to see that? And since when is a 200+ million dollar gross for a 'revamp' of an older character a bomb. I mean... fuck, Batman Begins made less than Superman Returns, and look how well it improved upon the first with the same team. I know this is more of an apples to oranges thing, but I still think Singer would at least make an X-Men to X2 jump in quality.
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He could make an oscar worthy Superman. He's an american and he knows how to make a great heroic epic action film. Forget Cohen and Wachokskis; too wierd, too dark. Remember Tim Burton?
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After the ending to Dark Knight the next step should be the big blue boy scout going to save Gotham from the " vigilante killer" Batman. Let the fireworks ensue from there.
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based their properties in the mid to late 30'. I think their characters worked better in the Pre-WWII era more-so than they do in modern times. I loved Dark Knight, and there is an exception to be made with that film but Superman in a modern age just seems wrong. Clark Kent is a mild mannered reporter. Last I remembered Newspaper Reporters are not that big a deal anymore. Back then, TV news was not even thought of, and radio was just starting to become popular. Warner brothers should do Superman ala Fleischer and base it around the man of tomorrow in a 1930's age. It was a simpler time back then and it would make his alter ego work. Clark Kent is just as important to the character as Kal-El is. A modern Clark Kent probably wouldn't be a Newspaper reporter, he would be a mild mannered internet blogger.
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http://tinyurl.com/6jxhem
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Directed by the Coens. With Supes in New York. Hot-as-hell Lois Lane in cuban-heeled, seemed stockings, chain-smoking cigarettes, chasing down story of corruption in City Hall and the center of it all? Junior Alderman Lex Luthor. Fronting a company producing his Fleisher-inspired "LexBots". Yeah. Spot-on. This book should be a movie. It could be like "Sky Captain". Only not boring. And they have to set it in 1938, or it just dosen't work.
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Honestly, I think DC and WB have no guts and no vision at all. I would rather see Singer TRY to make an X2/Wrath of Khan step up. If it doesn't succeed, then he's done and yes, you'd have to revamp Superman again. But revamping/imagining him again now is a bigger slap in the face. The ONLY thing in Superman Returns that is a problem for sequels is the Alex plot. Boswell sucked, but she can be replaced as easily as Katie Holmes was. Luthor wasn't an industrialist, but he had money even at the end of that movie, and if he's any genius at all that can be fixed. New writers can get THIS Superman series right though. I am convinced that going with Abrams, McG, or god help us the fucking Cohen brothers (jeez, Mori, I know you think they shit ambrosia but please, they are so wrong for this even if they DID get Jennifer Jason Leigh to play the best Lois Lane that wasn't Katherine Hepburn ever) will NOT give us the right Superman movie. You will either get the brainless studio-by-the-numbers Fantastic Four blandfest that the stuidos would like to make (only magically it produces a series of equally bland but profitable sequels), or it'll be another risky artsy thing like Superman Returns was--and yes, that thing was artsy and subtle and understated in all the place we wanted a good super-effects fist fight with Doomsday or Metallo. What no Superman movie has given us is in fact the one thing I think most fans want to see is Superman fighting Cloverfield and General Grievous simultaneously for the whole last hour of a movie with suspense and action almost non stop. His enemies should be massive and incredible and probably capable of carrying their own movies even without him to fight. We want the Superman 2 fight only bigger. How anyone didn't give us a super fight after seeing the Matrix Revolutions still baffles me--except that maybe they were trying to be too smart for their own good. Superman 2 had the gravitas that we want too, you believe Superman is mortal there and that what he loves is in jeopardy in more ways than one (and just a little tragedy that he can't have what he wants too), and I truly do think Singer will bring that to an SR sequel because he did it with X2. If he really is a hack, if he really does fuck up again, then yeah, reboot Superman, but you know it'll take time either way so finish what was started with SR NOW. Oh, and Smallville is total crap, anyone wanting a movie of THAT instead of a continuation of SR is nuts. It is now as bad a Superman interpretation as Lois and Clark was.
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thats exactly what I was going for when I wrote what I wrote. the best way to reboot a Superman franchise is to put it in a different era. If they are going to show his origin, do it in flashbacks. I always had an idea where they could start it off where there have been sightings and rumors of a super-man saving citizens but no one wants to run the story except for Perry White who puts Lois Lane on it. She begrudgingly obliges and enter Clark Kent who she teams up with and drops the "Super Man" story on him, so she could go chase corruption or something more hard news and not urban legend. Lois, as spunky and always getting into trouble ends up in a position where she is going to be hit by a car and viola, Lois meets Superman as he save her from a car in the classic Action Comics #1 pose. Clark is no where to be seen, Jimmy Olson takes the famous shot.
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Superman is to iconic for the Coens. They need more off kilter material to work with like Madman, Flaming Carrot, or Concrete. Characters from back when independent comics actually different than the mainstream comics press.
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I kind of hate to say it but Vincent Gallo would be fantastic Lex.
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I've read It's Superman, it's an epic novel, a perfect slice (chunk?) of 1930s Americana that happens to feature, among its many characters, a guy named Clark who eventually becomes a guy called Superman. He is beautifully fleshed out, as is the fantasticly evil politician / mob boss Lex Luthor. The novel has everything: love, sex (Lois is a wild one for back in those days), racial strife, crime, drama, crime-drama, and is at times funny as hell. It also depicts the kind of violence resulting from utter stupidity the the cOEns specialize in (particularly in one hair-raising kidnapping sequence). The cOEns could capture the flavor of the period, and Clark's role would have to be expanded, as he is one of many characters in the book. The cOEns would have to read and fall in love with the source material. I think Rupert Evans (Myers from Hellboy) with a little-lot of beefing up would make a great 1930s era Clark Kent. Done right, this movie could be The Dark Knight movie of the Superman universe.
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This film doesn't hold up with repeated viewings, so I don't really like it anymore. But I admire it, and I would like to see a sequel get made for it. It could work.
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Damn, you're a ramblin' sumbitch.
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You can make anything sound stupid by writing like that- take for instance "No Country for Old Men." Some guy finds some money and another guy chases him around, one of them dies. The End. How lame was that? Having said that- if you don't like Supes that's cool, not everyone does, but I can tell you why I like him. He is symbolic for something greater. He is an all powerful man that doesn't abuse his power. Also, personally, I have nostalgic feelings associated with Superman because of the Donner movies which I saw when I was very young- and loved them. If you don't like Superman, again I'm not trying to change your mind on liking him, but maybe you can "get" why other people do.
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