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AICN EXCLUSIVE! Moriarty's Review Of JJ ABRAMS SUPERMAN Script!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Hey, everyone. "Moriarty" here with some Rumblings From The Lab.
You guys broke the story. And I don't mean you were first to report it... I mean you literally freakin' broke it. I don't think we've ever had a story hit as hard as this one was. I'm revising it a bit, though, to remove the other reviews from the column and to give them room to breathe on their own, and I'm also fixing the SUPERMAN story so it works again...
YOU’LL BELIEVE A FRANCHISE CAN SUCK!!
I can understand your curiosity. I know that when I opened the envelope that was on the doorstep of the Labs on Friday morning and I realized I was holding the JJ Abrams draft of the upcoming SUPERMAN film for Warner Bros, I was immediately forced to walk inside, sit down, and start reading. I took the script with me to a screening and kept reading until the lights went down, then started reading again in the car on the way home. I read the script twice, cover to cover, and then I started calling friends. Guys who are Superman freaks. We went over the details of the thing, and I ran certain story points by them to see if I was crazy. I think that, based on what I hear from certain inside sources, what I read is still very much a document in transition.
Good god, I hope so, because right now, it’s a disaster of nearly epic proportions.
Marvel seems to get it. Avi Arad didn’t even start in the film business, but he’s got the right idea. Hire people who have a real passion for the source material. Get out of their way creatively. Support them with the right technical teams. SPIDER-MAN and the BLADE films work incredibly well, in my opinion, and DAREDEVIL looks to me like another home run. I’m as open minded about HULK as I can be, and I’m greatly encouraged by what Michael France had to say about the film in an excellent recent interview by Steve Persall of the ST. PETERSBURG TIMES, because I trust France’s judgement. His FANTASTIC FOUR script remains one of the best superhero scripts never produced, and if he’s excited about what Ang Lee is doing with HULK, then I am, too.
Michael Chabon on SPIDER-MAN 2, the excellent script for X-MEN 2 and the great things I’m hearing from the set... all of this is incredibly encouraging. All of this makes me trust Kevin Feige more and more. Marvel is earning the sort of corporate trust that Pixar has, where no matter what I hear about a film ahead of time, I’m willing to stay open-minded. I’m willing to trust that they know how to bring these characters to life.
It doesn’t matter if it’s TV or if it’s features... Warner Bros. seems determined to micro-manage every property to death. They have no faith whatsoever in the people they hire, and it seems to be a problem at the executive level company-wide. BIRDS OF PREY has a hell of a producer in place in the form of Laeta Kalogridis, who wrote a great draft of TOMB RAIDER and who wrote an excellent high-tech SF version of BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN. From what I hear though, there have been some remarkable near-misses on the show so far, creative battles that boggle the mind. We all watched the way Paul Dini and Alan Burnett were treated, these remarkable TV producers who helped create some of the most enduring film images of Batman and Superman to date. And the feature division has been an endless Escher-style square dance, looping in and swallowing itself, endlessly developing variations on the characters. The entire DEATH OF SUPERMAN debacle which has people like Kevin Smith and Tim Burton and Jon Peters and Nicolas Cage and Roger Avery all caught up in it. There was the highly-publicized recent flirtation with BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN that had casting rumors in overdrive and had fan speculation running high. And now, as we mentioned in an article last week, a creative struggle between Alan Horn and Lorenzo Di Bonaventura has not only seen Lorenzo ousted from the studio, it’s also put JJ Abrams’s draft of the script in the lead as the film the studio wants to make.
One of the things discussed in that NEW YORK TIMES article is the idea that this is going to serve as the first film in a trilogy, and that it’s supposed to set up a grand story arc that JJ Abrams has plotted out. It was his pitch for the overall trilogy that some of the execs. They look at LORD OF THE RINGS or HARRY POTTER or the new STAR WARS films and they see how much revenue that creates for a studio over a decade or so, and they can’t help themselves. They picked the one they felt would make money.
And, hey, if I never read a Superman comic in my life... if I didn’t give a shit about any sort of history to the character... if all of my knowledge came from commercials for SMALLVILLE and vague memories of the Donner film, then maybe I’d look at this script and say, “Well, the scale of it is certainly amazing, and it’s an ambitious story. I can see how you’ve set things up for two other films, and there’s a lot to be done with these characters. Overall, the action is pretty intense, and there is a real energy to the piece. If it works, it’s really going to work. If audiences buy the story, we’ve got two more of these ready and waiting to go, and we can merchandise the living shit out of this.”
I’m not even a major Superman nut. I’m not going to pretend that I have some overriding passion about this particular character and what he means or his iconic value or anything. Superman is, I think, fairly potent pop mythology, and the best Superman stories are slight moral fables with some kick ass adventure and action thrown in. His origin is one of the most recognizable in all of Western literature. His planet explodes. He comes to Earth. He’s raised as human. The sun gives him powers. And he chooses to do good in this world. Pretty simple stuff. Pretty hard to screw up.
So, of course, first off, Krypton doesn’t explode.
That’s not where the film starts, though. The film starts with a news broadcast. The anchor on TV looks frazzled, panicked. He tells everyone to get underground, that the Pyramids have been destroyed, that Paris is burning, that most of South America is gone. He blames it all on Superman. There’s a terrible noise, and we whipcut to outside, to the streets of Gotham City (yes, I said Gotham), where a figure in body armor and a ninja’s cloak walks down the center of the street, using breath that is the “force of a thousand hurricanes” to blow buses and cars away, flattening five square blocks in the process.
There’s a WHOOSH in the distance, and the Kryptonian stops. This is TY-ZOR. He’s the same age as Superman, around 30 years old. As he hears the sound getting closer, he smiles, as if this is exactly what he wants.
BAM!
Two red boots hit the pavement in the foreground, “like an NBA MVP coming down from a slam dunk.” We move around the figure, up a very familiar costume, red and blue with a billowing cape. We see the “S” shaped icon. We finally see his face. He’s bruised. He’s bloodied. He’s winded. Whoever this Ty-Zor is... he’s kicking Superman’s ass.
They take off, start to chase each other through the sky. Predictably enough, they both are martial arts experts, and they have a high-speed super-powered martial arts fight in mid-air, kicking each other through buildings on a scale that SUPERMAN II could have never managed. At one point, we follow Superman in close-up as he flies backwards through a building, people scattering to get out of his way. It’s big action. It’s well written. Ty-Zor lures Superman into a NASA hangar that’s made largely of lead. Superman walks into the situation blind, not sure what’s going on. Ty-Zor taunts him over a speaker system, drawing him further in.
Superman finds a giant water testing tank and sees something off-camera that makes him stop. He’s terrified. He collapses in pain. He tries to crawl away but can’t. Ty-Zor taunts him again over the hidden speakers.
TY-ZOR
I want to hear you cry, Kal-El. Like your mother cried. Cry for me... Superman!
And as blisters erupt all over Superman and he cries out in pain, we SHOCK CUT TO:
Naboo.
Seriously. It’s Naboo. Oh, sure, they call it Krypton in the script, but it’s instantly recognizable as the Naboo of EPISODE I. Green fields. Forests nearby. Little girl playing. Everything peaceful.
And then the big war machines come rolling in.
Again, I’m picturing EPISODE I. Three-legged robot tanks. Mechanical soldiers taking a royal city. A civil war raging suddenly, ruining the peaceful green planet.
JOR-EL is a young man at this point, 39 years old, the leader of the Senate. As the attack gets underway and reports of key military failures roll in, Jor-El orders everyone to leave the War Room and go to their families, so at least they’ll be together at the end.
Jor-El’s got other plans, though. Seems there’s some prophecy, and he and Lara have a rocket shipt they’ve built for just this occasion, and Jor-El is determined that the only way to save their baby is to send him away. His rocket blasts off as the mechanical warriors come bursting in, and Jor-El sends his wife away at the last second with a creature called TAGA, described as a giant turtle with no shell. They take off, Jor-El goes outside to fight, and Jor-El ends up captured, beaten badly, taken before KATA-ZOR and his son TY-ZOR. Kata-Zor tells Jor-El that he knows about The Prophecy and he’s crazy, and he’s gonna track the baby down and kill him, and someone says that the pod could have gone any one of a thousand places, and Kata-Zor screams “THEN SEND A THOUSAND MEN!”
And it was about here that I had to check the cover of the script again. What the fuck? I mean, that opening with Superman and the Kryptonian dude in the streets... that was pretty cool. It’s silly that Superman has to do martial arts just because THE MATRIX made money, but I’ll learn to live with it, I suppose.
But what the hell is this nonsense about Krypton not exploding? What’s this Prophecy crap? Who’s Kata-Zor and why do I care? The last shot of this long Krypton prologue is of a thousand probe pods being sent out, away from the red sun of their home, all of them looking for the baby.
”Our MUSIC SWELLS – it’s EPIC – and then...”
Smallville. Martha and Jonathan Kent are eating breakfast. Okay. This is good. After all, you’d have to be genuinely retarded to screw up Smallville stuff by this point. Everything’s played big. For example, they’re not driving when the baby crashes. Instead, the pod lands in their field, heading straight for the house, and they have to run outside to get out of the way, only to see it come to rest an inch from the kitchen window when it finally slows down.
They take the baby in. His powers begin to manifest almost immediately. He tosses a couch. He flies. Even what he leaves in his diapers seems super-powered based on Jonathan’s weak-kneed reaction. The Kents are poor, struggling with their bills, but they are determined to provide for this strange orphaned baby, raising him as thei own, teaching him restraint above all else. Control. Basically, they make him so scared of what he can do that he’s afraid to do anything. A wicked landlord (drawn so broadly that he might as well have a mustache to twirl) tries to rape Martha Kent, and the six-year-old boy attacks, beats, and nearly kills the man. The guy freaks out and calls Clark the devil and a monster.
He’s a resolute outsider as he grows up, able to hear what his classmates say about him from miles away. When he’s 14, he finds a silver cannister hidden in his parents’ closet (he’s busy using his x-ray vision to see what’s in his Christmas presents). It’s not normal, and it slides open like liquid. Some sort of red substance is inside, neither liquid nor solid, and it suddenly SPRINGS out...
The Superman suit. The one you know.
Full-sized, standing by itself, as if worn by a grown man, cape waving.
And when Clark goes to touch it, it rips his clothes off and sucks him into the suit. He’s obviously too small for it, but that doesn’t stop him. He runs out and begins to experiment with it, running and leaping and finally taking off. Flying. In a suit that’s too big for him. And when he lands, it’s head-first, destroying a tractor right in front of Martha and Jonathan, who just came home.
This, of course, leads to the talk. Clark learns that he’s not their son naturally. That he’s not even from Earth naturally. And he takes the suit off and runs outside, confused and upset, and he looks up into the sky at the stars, wondering where he came from, and just as we really start to connect with Clark... just as they start to get to the heart of who he is...
... we cut back to Naboo.
More stuff with Taga the turtle creature and Lara, Superman’s decidedly not-dead mom. She’s captured. She’s tortured by Ty-Zor, who is about Clark’s age. He wants to know where Kal-El was sent, and when she won’t tell, she becomes Superman’s finally-dead mom.
And then it’s back to Earth. Clark’s 20. He’s in college. He’s an undeclared major, sort of drifting through school, not sure what he wants to do with his life. He meets LOIS LANE at a party. She’s annoyed, impatient, sorry she came. It’s a loud, obnoxious kegger, and it’s obvious neither one of them belongs there. This is the kind of stuff that Abrams can do in his sleep after FELICITY and the first season of ALIAS. Smart flirting. And even though it’s a total reinvention of how they meet, it’s okay. It’s decent character work. She totally rolls over him, of course. She wants to be a reporter. She wants to work at the DAILY PLANET. There’s a near-altercation where Clark gets pushed around, and it’s Lois who steps in and uses Krav Maga blows to knock the bully out. And just like that, she’s gone, and Clark is smitten.
And then we jump forward in time again, seven years, and we meet the character who is, in my opinion, going to cause the most controversy in the fan community.
CIA Special Agent DR. LEX LUTHOR.
He’s in his 50s with closely cropped hair. He’s brought in to Dust City, Arizona where police have cordoned off what appears to be a crash site. For a UFO.
Because that’s what CIA Special Agent Dr. Lex Luthor does. He’s the Director of the Special Operations Division of the CIA. Which basically means that he chases UFO activity and tries to either verify or debunk it.
The crash site turns out to be a hoax, though, set up by a couple of local kids. Luthor exposes the hoax, and is about to leave when he gets snapped by a photographer. We cut to a close-up of the DAILY PLANET, where there’s a headline splashed across the front page:
”CIA SPENDS MILLIONS ON LITTLE GREEN MEN.”
By Lois Lane.
Seems she paid the kids to set up the hoax. She’s chasing Luthor and his budget, determined to expose his work as ridiculous. Luthor pressures his bosses to let him go public with The Big Secret.
In Metropolis, Lois is getting bitched out by her editor, Perry White, for her techniques even as Jimmy Olsen gives Clark Kent a tour of the place. It’s Clark’s first day. And now he’s the age he was in the opening. Jimmy’s a little younger, and is described as “Brooklyn-born and somewhat effeminate.” Perry White makes jokes about Jimmy’s boyfriend later in the scene. It’s one of those bizarre choices that you hope you’re misreading. It’s suggested more than anything, but it is suggested. It certainly could be read that way. Did they just arbitrarily decide to suggest that Jimmy’s gay?
Can I ask what that adds to anything? Is it going to be a major subplot? If not, then did you really have to do it? Is this what you see as edgy, or as a hip way to update a character? I have no problem with seeing gay characters show up in mainstream films, but when it’s an arbitrary decision like this, one has to wonder what the point is. I remember that Kevin Smith once talked about how following screenings of CHASING AMY and STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE – THE SPECIAL EDITION, Jon Peters decided he wanted a gay robot in the SUPERMAN LIVES script that Smith was writing at the time. Is this another way for Peters to work the jones out?
Luthor goes public with a discovery that justifies his budget. He shows slides of a crash recovery site from nine years earlier. And this is twenty-nine years after the opening Krypton scenes, so... Luthor’s talking about a crash... came about twenty years after Clark first landed. The slides show a capsule almost exactly like Clark’s. Lex says the capsule is proof that there is an alien visitor hiding somewhere on Earth, and he intends to find him.
Clark has a big panic attack, of course, and calls home to talk to his mom and to verify that their capsule is still hidden in the barn, setting up the mystery of the film. Whose capsule is the second one?
Who is the second Kryptonian?
I started to get a really bad feeling when they introduced this plot thread, and I started hoping... actively praying... that they weren’t headed where I thought they were headed.
There’s more flirting. There’s no Superman yet. It’s just Clark following Lois around and Lois getting into trouble with her various stories. She gets assigned to a cover the President on Air Force One, a second chance from Perry to prove herself, and as they’re in the air, there is a sudden, unexpected mechanical failure, and the plane begins to fall. Clark hears the incident on the radio.
He rips open that cannister.
And now, for the first time, he’s the right size for the suit. And it climbs up onto him again and he takes off into the sky, flying for the first time since moving to the city.
And for this one sequence, JJ Abrams gets everything right. Every note is perfectly played. Superman’s debut to the world is remarkable. Breathtaking. A moment of perfectly played heroism.
And at the end of the scene, once the plane is on the ground, as everyone is freaking out over the mere idea of a man who can fly, the President tries to thank Clark, who walks right by him, worried, so he can check on Lois.
For some reason, though, she doesn’t recognize him.
No one does.
Lex sees him on TV, though, and he knows full well what it means. It means that the Visitor has finally revealed himself.
And Jonathan Kent hears him on the radio, and for a moment, he’s enormously proud of his son, and as he runs to tell his wife, he pulls a Glen Ford. Face down.
Exit Pa Kent.
Then it’s back to Naboo, for more crap we couldn’t care less about. I cannot stress this enough. Krypton is so powerfully uninteresting in the script that my eyes would glaze over at the mere sight of the word. We find Kata-Zor playing some kind of silly space chess with PREDIUS (a concentration camp prisoner who we don’t learn anything about, but who the script promises will be very important in the next film), and Ty-Zor comes in to tell his dad that they found Kal-El. Because I guess they were watching Earth TV just in case or something. But however they know, they decide to send some war machines to find and kill Kal-El. Ty-Zor begs for the gig.
I’ll give Abrams this: he sure does love to pile on the angst. This is the most tortured Superman I’ve ever read. He is so torn up over his father’s death that he vows never to put the suit on again. Luthor’s efforts to get more funding to find Superman result in Luthor’s being fired. He flips out and screams at the Senators who are pulling the plug on his program. He tells them that they’re all going to die. They don’t believe it. They think Superman is a hero. After all, he just saved The President. They’re not about to fund Lex’s effort to track him down and destroy him.
There’s another bizarre choice in here, one of those head-scratchers that just pull you out of the thing. Martha happens to find some metal thingies that she forgot to give Clark earlier. The metal thingies, if you put them together the right way, form the negative space from the “S” symbol from the costume. Turns out, these were given to the Kents before Kal-El ever arrived.
By Jor-El.
During his visit to Earth, when he picked the Kents to be Kal-El’s new parents.
For some reason, Martha never put all of this together, but suddenly we get this rush of exposition all at once. Each of the metal thingies means something different. Courage. Sacrifice. Wisdom. Faith. Love. Once she remembers this, she’s suddenly quite sure that he’s supposed to go save the world. From what, we’re not sure. There’s no major threat to speak of. But she decides that’s his mission, and because of the metal thingies and a photo of Jor-El, Clark decides she’s right.
The second best Superman sequence in the film is the montage that follows, as we see him slowly slip into this new role. He goes to a mountain top in the Andes and just... listens. There’s cries for help from all over the world, and at first, it seems to be too much. But he focuses in on one particular cry. Then another. Then another. And he begins to fly from place to place, fast as he can, never staying for thanks. And for this three or four pages, Abrams brings it all together again.
Look... I think JJ Abrams could well be the right guy for the job. I think he might have a great Superman script in him. The moments that are good are so good they make you woozy. This is the Superman that lives right alongside Santa Claus and Bugs Bunny and Luke Skywalker in the inner lives of American children from the last few generations, the simple force of good wrapped in red and blue. If there was an entire film of this stuff, I’d be weeping right now, telling you how we were in for this amazing love letter, this beautiful reintroduction to this classic character.
But of course that’s not what it is. No, Warner Bros. wants to recreate things that don’t need to be recreated. They want to distance themselves from what’s come before. I mean, never mind the fact that most of this script stands in direct opposition to what is established canon for the character over the years. What about the time and energy that fans are investing in SMALLVILLE? Again... it’s not really my thing. I’m not a big fan of the show. It seemed like every time I watched it last year, there was some sort of wackiness resulting from Kryptonite, and it started to get really old really quickly. But there are fans of the show... lots of them... and in an age of X-FILES and other shows making a quick transition to the bigscreen, it’s not unreasonable to think that Tom Welling was being groomed to step up at some point and play Superman at the end of the learning process that the TV show was going to show.
No chance of that. At this point, if Warner Bros. backs this Abrams draft (and what I read allegedly predates Ratner’s hiring this past week, meaning McG supposedly had a lot of input into it), then there’s no room for Welling or the Lex Luthor that fans seem so fond of or any of those elements in the bigscreen franchise.
Lois and Superman fall in love. There’s a nice tribute to Donner’s film in the way she interviews him and then they share a flight over the city at night. Luthor’s plan is revealed: he’s seen a vision of the Visitors coming to find the first Visitor, and he wants to help them take over the Earth in exchange for power. The warship arrives on Earth, landing in Washington D.C. Lois finds out about Luthor’s plan, which involves some sort of material stolen from the Smithsonian called “kryptonite,” and she rushes to warn Superman before his confrontation.
What unfolds for the next twenty pages or so is an enormous, ungodly fight between Superman and the various Kryptonians who have come to Earth to assist Ty-Zor. They battle through Washington, destroying much of it before Ty-Zor and the others retreat to regroup and hook up with Lex. The public turns on Superman and blames him for the bad guys coming to Earth.
Keep in mind that all of this is within days of Superman’s first appearance. The timetable is something ridiculous like a week. They’re working to pack so much into this script that it begins to smell desperate. There’s only so many pages of superbeings throwing each other through buildings that can be considered interesting, and I don’t know how much entertainment value audiences are going to find post 9/11 in watching beloved Washington landmarks be destroyed. Finally, as the Kryptonians and Luthor continue to bait Kal-El by destroying things around the world, the film comes full circle. We’re back to that fight between Ty-Zor and Superman. We go back into that NASA hangar. Only this time, we see what Superman sees. We see what terrifies him and what starts to hurt him.
Lois Lane, submerged in water, drowning, moored to the floor of a water tank next to a giant chunk of Kryptonite. Meaning if Superman goes in to save her, he’s going to die. And if he doesn’t, he’ll watch her die.
So... he does what Superman would do.
He goes in.
And he dies.
Ahhhh... didn’t see that coming, did you? You thought we were done with the Death of Superman, didn’t you?
Evidently not. Peters seems determined to shoehorn in the artificial emotion of a syrupy, lengthy, pointless funeral sequence. Lois gets to cry. Everyone gets to be very solemn.
But who the hell are they kidding? One of the fundamental problems with trying to kick off a franchise with a Death of Superman story is that WE KNOW HE CAN’T FUCKING DIE. I mean, have a little faith in the audience. Why would we want to invest fifteen minutes of sorrow into a storyline we know isn’t going to play out? This is part one of an announced trilogy. He’s not going to stay in the ground.
And the way they bring him back has got to be one of the dumbest, dippiest, New Age bullshit scenes in a major franchise picture that I can think of. It’s ri-goddamn-diculous. Jor-El “senses” the death of his son all the way from Krypton, so he slices his own stomach open and goes to Heaven where he explains to Jor-El that he CAN’T die. I halfway expected him to say, “Look, son, this is just the first film in the trilogy. You can’t be dead yet.” His excuse isn’t much better. He explains that The Prophecy says that the Son of Krypton will defeat a great trial on a distant planet before coming home to kick some ass. “And since I know you’re going to come save Krypton, you can’t die on Earth.”
Kal-El can’t really argue with such spotless logic, so he returns to his body and digs himself out of the grave where he was put to rest.
Seriously. Jor-El argues him out of being dead.
By this time, Luthor’s in the White House, and the Kryptonians are celebrating. They don’t know that Superman is back. They don’t suspect a thing as he goes to Lois, learns all about Kryptonite, then secretly organizes the entire United Nations for a plan to put the big hurtin’ on Ty-Zor and his boys. And girls. There’s a couple of Ursa wannabes in the group. Once everything’s in place, Superman goes to the White House and calls everyone out for the big final action sequence.
And when I say big, I mean B I G.
Air combat between five superpowered Kryptonians and fighter jets from 24 nations. Kryptonite missiles. Ass-kickin’ on a level we’ve never seen before on film.
It reads like it’ll cost $400 million. I’m predicting right now... there’s no way they’re going to be able to make something this big unless they’re willing to invest TITANIC sized money into the thing. And with a film that is going to infuriate fans as much as this one will, that’s not a sure-thing investment. In fact, it’s a pretty major risk.
And just in case you’re not infuriated yet, let me give you the last big spoiler in this thing. As Randy Newman once sang, “I just want you to hurt... like I do...”
Y’see, after all the Kryptonians are dead, Superman’s getting ready to go back home. He’s gonna go to Krypton because the Prophecy says so. Never mind the fact that he won’t have any superpowers back there. Never mind the fact that we DON’T FREAKING CARE about what happens on Krypton. That’s the set-up for part two, and Superman is in midst of his tearful farewell when Luthor shows up.
And that sinking feeling I got earlier came back. I knew it before it even happened. That thing I was so afraid of... Abrams is going to go for it, I thought... and I kept reading, almost peeking at the pages between my fingers...
Luthor tells Superman that he has come for him. And not in the way he thinks, either. He begins to rant about what a “goddamn spectacular job” he’s done, rambling like he’s lost his mind.
LUTHOR
The good soldier. The loyal. The dedicated. The tenacious. That’s me. When others would have quit – when others have. I kept up the charade. Following orders that made me sick! To impersonate the very thing I despise most in the universe.
(to Lois, with disdain)
Those like you.
And by now, I was practically screaming at the script. “NO! DON’T DO IT! DON’T DO WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO DO, YOU STUPID FREAKIN’...”
LUTHOR
I was hoping to do this on a slightly larger scale, SUPERMAN... but here we are. And the only way for me to be the good soldier is to tell you the truth.
(intense, evil beat)
No, that pod the CIA recovered... it wasn’t yours.
A long insane dramatic beat – and just as we get it:
LUTHOR
IT WAS MINE!
And then Luthor flies. Seriously.
And he and Superman have yet another superfight.
Because 30 pages of superfights wasn’t enough.
And because someone, somewhere, for some completely mystifying reason has decided that it would be a good idea to make Lex Luthor a superpowered 50 year old who knows better kung-fu than Superman.
In the long history of really stupid ideas in bringing superheroes to the bigscreen, this far surpasses the Amazing Hummingbird Man and Hot Guy from one of the lousy HULK drafts. I honestly think this is worse as an overall idea than Arnold’s Mr. Freeze and a bat credit card.
He’s Lex Luthor.
And he’s got superpowers. And he flies.
The end of the film sets up Clark to go home to Krypton. It sets up Lex as a prisoner, ripe to escape for the next movie.
And for all the world, it reads to me like Clark is going home to Naboo to study with Yoda so he can be the king of Krypton or some such nonsense.
And as his rocket blasts off from a cornfield and Ma Kent waves at him, I was left with my jaw hanging open, shocked.
I... I... sweet God, I hate this script.
Please, Brett Ratner. Don’t do this. JJ Abrams... you’re better than this. I know Jon Peters is involved, and I know he’s determined that any DC superhero film made has to be incredibly shitty and stupid, but DON’T LISTEN TO HIM!!
Please, Alan Horn... call Avi Arad. Ask him what the secret is. Learn from him. Hire someone who really loves this property and let them make a damn good Superman adventure film.
I’m begging you. I put all this detail into this column because I want you to read the reactions of the Talk Backers below. I want you to pay attention to the reaction across the entire Net. Listen to the fans. They’ll tell you if this is what they want.
And maybe it is. Maybe you want martial arts fights in mid-air. Maybe you want a superpowered Lex Luthor. Maybe you want a Krypton that didn’t explode and an ancient Prophecy and a second film that’s not set on Earth. Maybe that all sounds good to you, and you’re all going to tell me that I’m crazy, or that I’m overreacting, or that I’ve failed to grasp the conceptual brilliance of this thing.
Somehow, though... I doubt that.
I don’t want to hate SUPERMAN. I want to love SUPERMAN. Even if it’s not one of the things I hold dear as a fan, I have a respect for the character that stretches all the way back to the first time I read a comic book with the character in it, and the first time I sat in a theater as Donner’s film or the Fleisher cartoons played. I may not be nuts about Superman, but I know him when I see him.
And this ain’t him.
Okay. So. Gotta go. I know I said I was going to write about Sylvester Stallone in his new indie effort SHADE, but I’m out of time and I have deadlines to meet and I’ll be back later this week anyway. I’ll have it for you then, AB King... I promise. Until then...
"Moriarty" out.
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Wonderfully written, Moriarty. I couldn't agree more. I simply don't understand this Hollywood need to "put their stamp on it." It's completely maddening, and if this script is the one that grabs the greenlight, they'll kill the character outright, destroying an American myth. Do they not understand why people like Superman? Don't they get it?
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This may be the most obvious understatement of the decade, but this Superman movie is going to lick balls, because Warner Brothers in fact licks balls.
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Sep 23, 2002 5:31:35 AM CDT
It's a good thing that Superman script never fell into my ha
by vroom socko
Because I would have wiped my @$$ with it, and the damned thing probably would have given me paper cuts on my pucker. Jesus Sweet Weeping Chrysler! If that thing gets made, Warner Brothers will be destroyed. Is this Abrams guy insane? Did no one learn from the shit-feast that was Batman & Robin? I feel ill. "Superpowered Lex Luthor." I say again, Jesus!
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Jerk.
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Geez, this sounds like a case of taking too many liberties with the Superman character, and just completely assufucking the mythology of every thing we've previously known about Supes.
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I plead with anyone involved with Superman that might read this. For my sake, for the sake of every other Superman fan, and for your own sake. PLEASE abandon this ridiculous parody of a Superman film script and have a new one written. You want to make a Superman film because the character is one of the best-selling comic books of all time. There is an audience already there for this film. Do not hurt yourself and the future of DC-based superhero films by destroying some of the very elements that make us love Superman. The comic is successful because the fans love the stories and love the characters. When you change them, you change the very thing that makes them successful.
The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr. -
Hahahahah... oh my, that last revelation about Luthor is laugh-out-loud funny, in that kind of hysterical "I'm losing my mind" way.
What are Warner Brothers thinking? I'm all for making the film distinct from the 1978 classic, but to screw about with such a famous mythology to this degree is simply madness.
How long is this complicated mess supposed to run - four, five hours?
It seems pretty obvious that the Warners suits still haven't a clue what they're doing. -
Sep 23, 2002 5:55:07 AM CDT
Message to Alan Horn.... I agree with Moriarty. This sounds bad.
by marty mcsuperfly
Take a deep breath and REALLY think long and hard about doing this. Your job is at risk if you screw up.
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I mean, fucking hell.
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You see, when the Kevin Smith Superman script was reviewed on here (i forget by who, but it may have been Harry) he extolled it as a great screenplay. I've read it. It's possibly the biggest piece of shit I've ever read (and that includes the Arnie/I Am Legend pile). So I'm going to trust JJ Abrams more than you on this, I'm afraid.
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For any fans of Superman who wish to make their voices heard against this film, I've started an online petition at: http://www.petitiononline.com/sprmn5/petition.html I don't know how much good it will do, but the sooner we let the studio execs know we do NOT like this script, the more time they have to get one that works.
The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr. -
...any chance that could've been a prank script? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm aware that Hollywood can do some pretty retarded things with franchises, but this CAN'T be serious. Right now, I'm praying there's some miserable, little **** reading all this laughing his ass off about how he's pulled one over. I'm praying for the little ****. Tell me he's real, Moriarty. I want to believe.
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Awful! I was hoping this was gonna be great. BUT it still could be. Get someone to rewrite this sucker and all can be well.
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Oh I get it! April fools right Mr. M? *checks calendar*
Well shit.. -
What do you guys think? Who should be brought in to either edit/assist or drastically rewrite Abrams? Please comment, my fellow Talkbackers....
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What is it with DC, they have a full roster of great characters, and with superman probably the most universally identifiable comic creation of all time and yet they want nothing to do with what made their characters come to life in our imaginations. Why mess with an icon. Look at the success of Spiderman if you need proof that a character doesn't need to be reinvented. By going ahead with this rubbish you will alienate the fans of Superman first, and they are the ones you need to get the big opening you will obviously need to justify making this film. And if the fans don't go and see it, who will?
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For rewriter and possibly director as well: M. Night Shyamalan. THAT would kick major ass. He's shown with SIGNS he can easily handle showing Smallville in an interesting way, and you KNOW he takes comics/superheroes very seriously, just look at UNBREAKABLE. SHYAMALAN should do it, definitely!!!
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Wanner Brother's should have "counselor's standing by" when the film's over to help all the poor soul's who feel raped by the way that Superman is being handeled, or by those who had to suffer through Batman & Robin. This is wrong on SOOOOOO many levels. PLease for the love of GOD, don't do this to Superman!
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Jon Peters secretly works for MARVEL!! He wants to destroy everthing DC at Warner Brothers. There can be np pther explanation. Nobody coulb such an idiot by accident. Jon Peters WANTS superhero movies involving DC charcters to fail.
That has to be it: He works for Marvel. I am positive about it. -
As long as Shymalan doesn't cast himself as Lex Luthor or Jimmy Olsen, we should be fine. TA!
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Lois has a beer and cheats on Superman. (And Luthor should talk jive.) From my los feliz apartment, i can swear i just heard the shit hit the fan a couple miles away. Cheers to Moriarty.
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Sep 23, 2002 6:17:18 AM CDT
I'm all for UPDATING material...but changing stuff that ALRE
by eugene o
This script is interesting. So do it as a comic book. BUT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE DON'T SPEND A FORTUNE ON SOMETHING THAT CANNOT POSSIBLY MAKE BLOCKBUSTER MONEY! And, after all that, I wouldn't be too keen on seeing A SEQUEL! There haven't been that many good Superman films to begin with, so there is no reason to start changing stuff to "take a fresh approach". Donner's Superman was awesome, but flawed. His work on SUPERMAN II was exceptional. So, really, there have only been one and a half good Superman movies. There is still PLENTY of the traditional material to mine! J.J.---you are being a DICK. WARNER BROS.--you are shooting yourselves in the foot.
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Sorry couldn't help myself. But do it! Give to him. He'll make it fucking amazing!
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I don't even like Superman as a character, and even I will acknowledge that this is retarded. I mean, Superman has been around since what 1939 or something? Wouldn't you think that theres a reason for that? Why call it Superman, if its not Superman? Why? This Jon Peters guy is the Devil, I think.
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JJ Abrams and his supporters are racing to get the first live action DragonballZ movie made. If this is ever made, Battlefield Earth is gonna be dethroned.
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Okay, Ratner sucks cock, Peters sucks cock, but ALIAS is a decent show and Abrams should have known better. Maybe we'll get a re-write that'll have a black Jimmy Olsen and he'll say "Slammin'" when Supes first bursts out of the phone booth.
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Sep 23, 2002 6:31:51 AM CDT
I think Jon Peters should go back to hairdressing with Hulk Hoga
by chaffro
"You mess up my dome, brother, I'm gonna kick your ass. Right, that's it!"
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Gotta go with Serial_Curiosity on this one and wonder if it is a joke?! It sounds SO awful and SO calculated to enrage Supes-fans that it must be either in part or in full a sham. I mean there's some interesting stuff in there (so probably not to go TOO OTT in the joke part) but the ending in particular and the whole KUNG FU! stuff is just ludicrous. I'd enter into a sizeable wager that this script, if real, never sees the light of day (esp. now :)
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I'm not a big comics fan but I'd definitely put Superman as the best movie-comic adaptation of all time. It's so fucking graceful. What works so well is the set up. It's so simply told that it's genius, Glen Ford and the kid, the race with the train, leaving home. Absolutely fucking perfect. Superman for me was a bit like James Bond or Star Trek, I like them but I'm not mad about them. And when it came out on DVD, I couldn't understand why I'd left it out for so long. I know it's tricky to re-invent a film like that. There's not that many ways to write for Lex Luthor. Most people already know about the Superman genesis. But this new script sounds bad. If you're going do it, then try for a mix of Superman and Superman 2. But start simple. Look at the first 40 mins in the original film. Then think about a fresh idea and take it from there. Make the film that Donner tried to make all those years ago. But Jesus. Naboo. Leave all that shit out.
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Sep 23, 2002 6:53:17 AM CDT
Sounds like Stephanie McMahon and the WWE Booking Committee
by filker-tom
I am a huge fan of the first Reeve movie, and I was distressed by the changes they made just with SUPERMAN II (e.g., new and goofy powers like the Cellophane S-Net, Luthor there for sheer comic relief, Supes using his powers to revenge himself against the normal guy at the end of the film, etc). But that was all cosmetic stuff. This... this abomination -- if it is legit (and I suspect it must be, because Moriarty's reputation is on the line here) -- this THING is not even coherent. It really does sound like it was booked in the same style as contemporary pro wrestling -- "hot-shotting", each bit trying to out-dazzle everything before it, which usually results in stupid, contradictory nonsense. Which is why I no longer watch pro wrestling. There is a lot you can do with the Superman mythology, but it is a mythology, and one that's been in place for over sixty years. Screw with it too much in the wrong ways, and you will lose your audience in a heartbeat.
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I swore off talkbacks but man, I couldn't keep off this one. I think everyone realises some things need tweaking in the transition from comic to screen, but they don't need totally bending out of shape! The only saving grace seems to be that I seriously doubt this will get made. I think we'll see at least a couple more scripts before they actually make a new superman movie.
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(cont. from title). Now if they cahnge all the cahrecters ames in the script and get rid of all the actual, real SUPERMAN references in the script then this movie can kick some serious arse BUT BUT BUT doing this movie is like asking for it. WARNER BROTHERS studios will be burned down to the floor.
...seriously. And i am going to be the first guy who will start the fire.
Mor great job as always mate. -
Sep 23, 2002 7:04:14 AM CDT
Sounds like the reinvention of Superman to comedy is gonna work
by joe mammary
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Look, I've read maybe 4 Superman comics in my life. I'm not big into comic books. But I frequently watched the recent animated series and I loved the frilly hell out Donner's SUPERMAN. The origin was spot on and Christopher Reeve was PERFECT as the Man of Steel. I don't know a lot about continuity, but I know with every fiber of my being that >this< Superman Moriarty reviewed is NOT Superman. This is like some goddamn Saturday morning cartoon revisionist BULLSHIT! Kypton is supposed to blow up! There's no prophecy! LEX LUTHOR IS HUMAN!!! My god. What in the fuck is Warner Bros. thinking? Oh wait, they're NOT THINKING! Just because a script has 100 pages of action doesn't make it epic! STICK THE SOURCE MATERIAL!!! I swear if this script gets to the screen Warner Bros. will lose so much money that Disney will have buy them out. Why is it that continuity was strictly adhered to for some stupid kid on a broom, but SUPERMAN, the mother f-ing superhero icon of the 20th century can be rewritten beyond recognition??? ARGH!!! I need to go commit violence now. L8r
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Damn. I was going to say Kung fucking fu?!? At what point did the invulnerable man of steel think it would be good idea to learn some self defence, y'know, just in case?
I like the Matrix but I'm sick of tired CGI'd martial arts bullshit. I just want to see guys get their arse whupped in good old fashioned fisticuffs. Indiana Jones never needed bullet time. Nor does Superman.
Not that this pile of shit counts as Superman. I had Superman wall paper as a child. I lived and breathed the Donner film. I believed a man could fly. I don't believe any on this for a second.
It's a big film. It's a big name. It'll make a hundred million dollars. And the world will weep for the passing of a legend.
Wankers.
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Fuck you Alan Horn. You were took the position of president 3 years ago, and what have you done? Tha Matrix was the only good film to come out of the WB in a long time, and that wasn't even your doing. It was diBonaventura.
Fuck you JJ Abrams. This guy gave us Felicity. Fucking Felicity. Teenage angst crap set to a pop soundtrack. Alias is good, but it's still angst. There is little to no angst in Superman.
Fuck you Brett Ratner. Yeah, Rush Hour was just a fucking masterpiece, almost as brilliant as Rush Hour 2....idiot. Fuck you JON PETERS. You are the soul reason that this project wasn't in the can years ago. I don't know how on earth you're still working after Wild Wild West and your infinitely stupid idea of a giant robotic spider being crucial to the plot. God, you are all morons, and worse than that you are bad at what you do. Not one of you has an ounce of artistic vision. Not one of you can remember past mistakes and learn from them. I can only pray to god that some board member wakes up and fires you all. -
Sounds like some cool shite to me!
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Why not make Supes gay too? Put Jerky Jerk Abrams in a rocket ship and blast him off of this planet. Send him to Uranus where he'll be happy and fulfilled. I can see the headline now: Warner Bros. Spends Millions On Little Green Men. 'nuff said about this turkey of a script. Mr. Horn, resign now please. Mr. Robinov, buh-bye. Lorenzo might actually have been right about which movie to make. As for me I'll just go to the video store and rent Donner's classic Superman from 1978 and enjoy its purity. I'll catch this piece of Brett Ratner-directed crap when it airs on the WB for free. If you spend your hard earned money to see this movie you'll only be rewarding them for failure and encouraging them to make two more just as bad.
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I'm no huge Suoperman fan (I'm with That Man Batman) but this sounds like shit...with flashes...MINUTE flashes of embryonic ideas.
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Let's see who's more of a moron. Our nominees, in chronological order: Jon Peters (never realized that Batman's success had nothing to do with him, or his ideas); Lorenzo Di Bonaventura (virtually his entire reign as head of WB, although he was smart enough to give in to J.K. Rowling); Alan Horn (for thinking that this Superman script is anywhere close to a good "Superman" film); JJ Abrams (he's the one who wrote this abomination); The WB Board of Directors (they not only stood behind Di Bonaventura, but when they finally decided to back another horse, they picked the guy who championed _this_). And the winner is . . . us. Because we're the morons who keep handing over cash to the creatively and morally bankrupt corporations who keep offering us this shit.
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This is bollocks man...what is it with WB? And can someone tell me if ANY film execs REALLY and I mean REAALLLY look on this site? Coz if they do then SURELY they'd see that fans would rather wait for the project to be correct rather than just rushing ahead to fill the void. Man...I want kids but I aint rushing into it till I know I've got shit right...!! In a perfect world, WB would have the rights to Superman AND Batman bought out from under them but we know that'll NEVER happen. Mori (and MArvel) are right. Give the project to someone who knows what the shot is and who gives a gnats chuff about the source material. For fucks sake...I bet there are THOUSANDS of truly film-worthy fan scripts knocking about this tiny planet but people like WB just cant be fucked to do any homework and seem quite willing to sit back, relax and let another potentially HUGE franchise get fucked hard in the ass with no lube...I worry for fans of the Matrix.
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Yeah that's the guy to star as our new and improved Superman. He'll be plain old Dwayne Johnson in a Sears suit when he's Clark Kent but when he's Superman watch out! He's THE ROCK! He can raise that waxed eyebrow of his and take Ty Zor in to a Gotham City gay bar and they can dance the night away to the tunes of Donna Summer singing about somebody leaving her fucking cake out in the rain again. Go with The Rock you Warner clowns he's perfect!
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Hope this gets done just to keep the fanboys gurning. Seriously this could be one of the greatest comedys ever made. I only hope they stay on track with the casting - Bill Murray as Luthor? Freddie Piss as Supes?
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Isnt there some kind of public access WB email address that we can all bombard? If so can someone post the addy here so we can TELL WB that this script undistilled is urine?
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Sep 23, 2002 7:36:39 AM CDT
Almost forgot Luthor, cast WB president Jeff Robinov as Lex.
by bari umenema
Jeff actually looks just like Luthor, they're both bald and I think Robinov is also from another planet, not sure which planet but I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
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Sep 23, 2002 7:42:08 AM CDT
Warner Bros. will be reading this talkback for the next week so
by bari umenema
They will be studying every single post on this talkback and debating the script at length now. They use this site for preliminary market research so keep up the flames guys keep it up. Although if you really want to be tricky tell them the script is great and you can't wait to see it then they'll spend all this money and lose it and the idiots in charge will be fired. So from now on everybody praise this script. It's brilliant! It's fabulous! It's wonderful! It'll make a billion dollars! Give it a green light right now! We can't wait to spend money on this movie! We'll all go see it five times! Congrats to Alan Horn and all the other suits! You guys are geniuses! JJ Abrams deserves an Oscar for this screenplay! Brett Ratner will win one too!
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Are u kidding?? If this is how its gonna be when it hits the screen. You're not going to find me anywhere near a cinema. No wait...not just me... EVERYBODY!!!
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I rarely do talkbacks, only on things that are of profound interest to me (it's been about 6 months since my last post). I've been a diehard Superman fan my entire life and I'm not happy with this draft at all! What'll be on the DVD, JJ Abrams whipping it out and pissing all over classic Superman comics because that's basically what he's doing with this monstrosity. I mean if they saw the original backlash over Spider-Man having organic webshooters (a minor detail in his origin), WOULDN'T THEY THINK WE'D BE FUCKING PISSED OVER THIS? The sad part is that we have to see this shit because if we don't, it'll be moved to a broader context, saying that comic book movies in general (or at least DC ones) flop and companies will move onto the next hot trend. What's next JJ? Batman living in with his parents in the middle of the ghetto? The Green Lantern being created by Martian Manhunter to save the universe from the extraterrestrial threat of Plastic Man? Jesus Christ, if you've never read a fucking comic book in your life, you sure as fuck don't belong writing a comic book movie goddamnit! This goes for Turds of Prey too, which I unfortunately sat through here on campus. It was the original pilot and I can't imagine it getting any worse than that in their reshoots. marvel is much more intelligent than DC because Marvel realizes that fans want to see characters that they know and love while DC thinks that the fans want to be fucked with. WELL I'M STARTING A MOVEMENT RIGHT NOW! EVERY DC MOVIE THAT FUCKS WITH CONTINUITY THIS BAD SHOULD HAVE AN "ELSEWORLDS" LOGO BEFORE THE OPENING CREDITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That way they can fuck with it as much as they want by telling the fans thet they're locked in the middle of Hypertime. Who's with me?
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First off, I was liking it. Even the Krypton stuff! Reads like the "Return to Krypton" from the Superman books a few months ago.
The action seemed great! The hole fighting and destroying cities... wow! Even a tribute to the classic John Byrne's origin of Superman with the Air Force One.
AND THEN... crap. Major crap. Ultimate mega crap.
God, I hate Jon Peters... -
Based on the lack of advertising I assumed Dimension had decided to push back Below. Now I find the truth is just as infuriating. Dimension Films is run by the worst cry baby sacks of shit out there. What they're doing to Below is exactly what they just did to Undisputed. I heard there were fights with Wesley Snipes about him not agreeing to do reshoots and so Dimension had a snit and just dumped the film out there with minimal advertising. Now Undisputed wasn't a great film but it was a solid B-movie that featured better craftsmanship than many of the "event" films of the summer and certainly could've done better box office with a proper promotion behind it. But it was more important for the Weinsteins to prove a point or to be vindictive than to support a good film. Now it looks like they're taking their frustrations out on Below. I knew when David Twohy signed on to work with Dimension Films that there'd be trouble. Twohy's a smart, creative guy and it seemed unlikely that he would kow-tow to the usual stupid post-production bullshit that Dimension is famous for. I'm sure that because Twohy stuck to his guns and made the film he believed in that Dimension feels right in giving the film a practical non-release. Mirmax/Dimension really sucks and its a shame that all their decisions are based on ego and arrogance. Anyhow, speaking of ego and arrogance, the imbeciles at Warner Bros. are setting themselves up for one of the biggest disasters in the history o cinema. I don't know where to begin in listing the problems with this one. Thank God everyone associated with Marvel Films has their act together.
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I guarantee you! Abrams will never write the correct draft. He doesn't get the character is THE SLIGHTEST. I wish this were April 1st. A Kung-Fu Superman!? He's mistreated? Superman used his superabilities to become an unnaturally great hometown football star! There's a scene in there, an original one. He drifts through college? Metropolis hates and fears him? No, when you see Batman at night running over a rooftop, you run home excited, a little scared, but pleased that you're safe. When you see Superman in the daytime, you wave up at him and wave. And you know what? He just might smile and wave back at you. He's always been loved, a Hero to the city, they would erect a monument... he inspired this entire city. The entire world is destroyed as Superman comes on the scene? He has a prophecy all laid out for him, dictating his next moves as a way out for the script writer? I hope Abrams never works again, he was lucky to get Felicity. A UFO working Luthor? A Superman Luthor? 50 Kryptonians fighting Superman ....for no reason? And harming Lois to get at him. "Ty-Zor"? This was written by someone who will never understand superheroes. It's nothing like the comic, and worse than BATMAN AND ROBIN, for God's sake make the pain end! In the original, there was the legendary story of one man of his race being jettisoned through Outer Space from his huge planet to one of the tiniest places on earth: Smallville. Which was just what he needed, because from there, he learned good values from great parents, imagine if Superman were raised by the wrong people? In fairness, Mori, you didn't go into detail on the good parts, but forget it, I don't want Abrams anywhere near this project.
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It doesn't sound too terrible to me...
Two comments - Lex Luthor as a Kryptonian - I'm not to keen on - but not because it sounds silly (I also liked the Human fear of Superman that Lex represented in the comics) - but because it makes Lex's motivations to destroy Superman far too superficial, its a simple case of connecting the dots to figure out Lex with this plot string - he's a Kryptonian who doesn't want to be discovered so he turns his fear on finding the other Kryptonian - too simple... and makes Lex a throwaway villian rather than a real character.
Second Comment: The plot string with Lois being used to bait Superman's death... It's unoriginal, and sounds tired. I'm not suggesting I could think of a better dilemma for Superman (its a functional problem, a la Spiderman saving Mary Jane or the entire train load of kids), but it sounds a little trite. Subsequently, urging Kal-El back in Heaven, a little shmaltzy isn't it? Superman figuring a way to save himself and Lois is the kind of thing I'd expect from this Superhero (again, a la Spiderman) - BUT I think Moriarity is overreacting when he suggests that Superman can't die in the first part of the trilogy - in JJ Abrahams defence, I'll say this, it makes me consider Supermans mortality, I know he'll live, he has to, but he's not infallible, and I know he has fatal weaknesses. Fix up how Superman is ressurected, and I'll be happy with this idea (let me remind you that Frodo "died" twice in Lord of the Rings before being brought back to life. Its a concept that can work, but not to fool the audiences into thinking he's dead, but rather to allow them to consider Superman as a person with weaknesses
If I was giving notes on this script (and I have done in the past) those would be my comments. Aside from that, I do think an incorporation of Kal-El's involvement in Krypton's downfall is something I'd be interested in seeing - What actually happened there, which characters were involved, how does it shape Superman into who he is and what he does today?
Finally, remember Frank Millers Superman as a character in Dark Knight Returns, a puppet for Reagan's politics, this is an interesting twist on the character and his relationship with humanity. He is essentially the pure human being that we wish to be (good, honest, and morally upright) but our own demons as humans are enough to corrupt him to...
It sounds like a good starting position with a couple of places that could be helped with some re-writing. I don't see it as re-invention as much as its making the details of Supermans existence a little richer (and I know its tinkering with details, but I dont think Superman's legacy should be unable to be changed)
I can already see the angry reply's being posted.... I have to say Congrats to JJ Abrahams for getting a draft finished, and envisonaging a bigger series than one film...
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Mori, don't ever suggest that Tom Welling should play Superman again. That is a travesty, that show is a travesty. And why is RAPE in this script? Or a keg party? Or Lois punching someone out like that, isn't that somewhat extreme?
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What about the moron they got for Sub-Mariner? The guy who envisions it as a prequel where he's growing up confused... And he sees it as a trilogy of films... that retard.
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For what it's worth, all the "prophecy" stuff in Abrams' SUPERMAN script seems lifted from the 1978 Elliot S. Maggin novel SUPERMAN: LAST SON OF KRYPTON. Maggin made up a sort of galactic Nostradamus called Sonnabend that predicted Superman, and that he would die saving the galaxy from some threat. And Superman almost did die, but then he sees a vision of God (with the face of Jor-El), and God explains that Superman is one of the few people in the history of the universe that can shape his own destiny, and not be beholden to Sonnabend's prophecies. (The enterie galaxy believe the prophecies to be true and unbreakable.)
It sounds silly as I synopsize this, but it's actually a pretty good book, and very entertaining. It's very very hard to find though...it's funny, I always thought that stuff would be cool to put in a Superman movie...not this way though...bleh!
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When did Dean Devlin start ghostwriting screenplays using JJ Abrams' name and when did Jon Peters start posting on this site under the moniker Machine Watcher? "And his partner is a talking pie!"
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Why go back to Krypton, why mess with donners vision, there trying to do a full on comic version (bad idea!!). the best thing about the donners version was that it didnt feel like comic crap,
It's all about the money now:(
The rumours of antony hopkins as Jor'el is a bad bad idea!!!!
they should get John Voight (sorry about the spelling)
WB may own Superman but they know fuck all, they should leave it, with out reves it's going to be shit!!!! -
I'm just...I'm shocked. I'm completely shocked. An attempted rape? In a SUPERMAN film?! Superman dies and comes back in the space of 15 minutes? Fey Jimmy Olsen? LEX LUTHOR AS GENERAL FUCKING ZOD?! DIE! DIE! DIE!
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I'd much rather watch a movie about a killer robot driving instructor who goes back in time for some reason than this pile of poo Warner Bros. is about to foist on us. ;) L8r
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what the fuck is happening to this world. it's chock full of greedy fucking scumbags. all they want is your money. everything is FUCKING MONEY. i hate it. ok so a million dumb parents will take their three kids and WB will be fucking rich again. but those kids are gonna grow up thinking thats superman, and it fucking isn't. it's a pile of steaming SHIT. talk about raping childhoods and EXPLOITING the memory of 9/11 by trying to blow up a characature(?) of bin laden/saddam as much as possible in shitty expensive films as many times as possible. that isn't showing them we are better than they are it's saying we're petty motherfuckers who haven't got the balls to do something back. BLOW THE CUNTS UP. next they'll get paul ' i couldn't direct a great movie if i had every penny on earth' anderson to direct.
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Y'know, I'm not that much of a Superman fan. I was a Marvel loyalist all my life. But just reading Moriarity's blow by blow of the Superman abortion got my blood boiling. Fucking Warners. Don't you stupid fuckheads understand why Spider-Man is the most successful movie of the year?? Because the filmmakers RESPECTED THE MYTHOLOGY!!! They didn't do wild backflips like making the Green Goblin possessed by a real goblin (as Abrams is doing by making LL an alien - Christ Almighty!!). AND WHY IS JON PETERS STILL WORKING IN HOLLYWOOD??? He is the symbol of all that is morally and creatively bankrupt out there!! The petition's a great idea, folks, and so are the flames galore on this site. However, I don't know how much effect either will have. You don't need to rant to Alan Horn or the suits, you need to scream and yell to their boss, the head of the whole Time Warner empire: Richard Parsons. Time Warner is in the shitter. The stock has crashed, and stockholders & employees who've had their retirement portfolios wiped out are hopping mad. All thanks to Gerry Levin's crowning achievement -- the Time Warner/AOL merger, now seen as perhaps the biggest corporate merger debacle of all time. (And the new glittering temple to this debacle, the new AOL Time Warner building rising up over Columbus Circle damn near decapitated a construction worker with falling debris on 9/11 -- they surely don't need anymore bad press!) So Mr. Parsons, who took over, must turn the entire battleship around, and Warner Bros. is one of the most effective tools in the arsenal. However, they didn't have the greatest summer. Eight Legged Freaks was a big loss, Ecks V. Sever looks like another one, Scooby Doo should've done $200M. They threw Lorenzo over the side, so there's obviously a LOT of pressure riding on the big franchises to lift the stock price. Do you all remember Peter Finch's brilliant speech from "Network" in which he extols the fed-up population to throw open their windows and scream "I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!" This is that moment. So everyone, print Moriarity's review out, include your own rant, and send it to the following address: Richard Parsons, Time Warner Inc., 75 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10019. I'm serious. The head decisionmakers won't care about a website or an online petition. But they will care when they see trucks full of stuffed mailbags unloading on their doorsteps. And so will the press. And maybe that will get Mr. Parsons's attention, and he'll read Moriarity's review, and if he's a true red-blooded American who grew up on Superman and knows the mythology, maybe, just maybe he too will go "WHAT THE FUCK???" like the rest of us. Who's with me? I'm doing it right after I post. I'm just so fucking sick and tired of the contempt and disregard Hollywood has for the moviegoing public and what they do to existing, well-loved, cherished properties!!!
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In no way, shape, or form is this Superman. I'm not even a real Superman fan (comics-wise), and I know this. Anyone familiar with any incarnation of the character will know this. And - Lex Luthor, flying? AAARRRGHH. I'm so glad to be warned of this, so I didn't have a stroke seeing that unprepared on the screen. Abrams clearly has no understanding of the Superman mythos at all. If it goes down as Moriarity has described... it's entirely, entirely wrong from beginning to end. I don't think there's any way this script will go through - but then again, after the Batman fiasco... ugh.. I don't have any real investment in a Superman movie but this disgusts me. It should be very hard to screw up Superman, but they're finding a way to do it. On a happier note: Spirited Away! I must see this film again! Everyone must see this film right away. Tell your family and friends. It's so wonderful, like LOTR the film expands in your mind as time goes by, and will linger long after the rest of this year's films have faded away. I think it's Miyazaki's best pure storytelling and people unfamiliar with his work can easily fall in love right here. Thank god they didn't go for the stunt casting of Mononoke Hime (which worked mostly fine in that case, but would be completely wrong here). There was a nice big line when I caught the film on Friday and I hope this keeps up. If Spirited Away attracts some business we may finally see more releases from Ghibli in the states.
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I wish you'd posted two articles, Mori, as this post seems to be focusing everyone on the Superman disaster. And poor "Below" won't get the proper attention it deserves. I've been tracking this film for months DYING to see it. But whoever posted that the Weinsteins are masters of vengeful dumping if you don't cowtow to their brilliance hit the nail on the head. They'll bury a film just for spite. And it's too bad, cuz this sounds terrific. I don't think there's anything you can do about those assholes -- just keep your eyes peeled for the postage stamp ads they'll run to fulfill their contractual obligations, then run to the theaters opening weekend to see it before it's unceremoniously dumped on video. Between this and Superman, I'm really depressed about the assholery of the movie business...
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This will suck in the same kind of sucking way as the crappy Tim Burton Batman movies.Catwoman, a secretary, Penguin lives in the sewer, Luthor's an alien. It's all the same.This will be Superman Bukkake of the worst kind
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Wow. I'm flabergasted. I'm serious, my flabber is officially gasted. This Superman script sounds absolutly tragic. Usually when i hear people bitching about lack of continuity or character in a comic script, it's usually these asshole fanboys nitpicking over minutepoints like the name of the guy who Clark Kent buys coffee from every morning. But this, THIS sounds about as awful as anything i can remember. Even worse than Braniac fighting polar bears or the Kevin Smith draft which was also lackluster. We should have known something was up when we heard Peters' loved it. One point though Mori, Avi Arad has certainly done a fine job with Marvel Films. He has picked creators that have unique visions and stayed true to the origins of the character. AOL TimeWarner/DC Comics has not. Although i cannot subscribe to your blanketing of "anything Marvel will be good". They've made too many shit films, and eventually with enough comic/hero movies coming out, theyre bound let a stinker through. To end this talkback, let me say this: JJ Abrams = Good TV/Bad Movie. Brett Ratner = Good at Directing bad actors like Tucker and Chan, Bad at directing real actors like Anthony Hopkins and Ed Norton. WB = The Devil
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What the f**k is this garbage ???!!! Krypton does'nt explode?! Luthor is a fed and a krypton resident??!! This garbage is worse than Batman & Robin(I still have nightmares about that one!!) This script is a punch in the face,a knee to the midsection and a kick in the balls to a real superhero legacy as well as fans who know the story by heart If the just continued the story and did'nt "improve" it ......I hope this piece of shit gets dumped and the real script that was really promising "Batman vs. Superman" gets a shot! It should know i read it .(Well the 2nd draft at least...) F**k YOU Warner Brothers F**k You very much!!!
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Moriarty had a really good point that I have to assume SOMEONE at WB has thought about - if you deviate so far from everything Smallville has established, you are going to kill the TV and the film franchise in one move. That is unless execs have already planned on Smallville being shit-canned the summer the movie comes out...........................
On another note, I don't give a fuck about how good Alias is supposed to be. By reinventing Superman, a character that literally spawned an entire industry, JJ Abrams is claiming his vision supercedes Siegel and Shuster's - and that's about as far from correct as one can get. Alias or anything else Abrams has worked on, will never have the iconic power Superman has. Alias will never resonate through any other medium, and will fade away into history as that 'show Jennifer Garner started on'...............................
AOLTW has a lot of shit to figure out - such as who the hell is running the company. If Parsons allows Horn and Peters to make this, than I hope to god Whacky Ted gets in control and cleans house. I never thought I'd back Lorenzo, but my god, he was right to lay Pluto Nash at Horn's feet. And here's a simple note to.....................
ALAN PARSONS - YOU ARE A DUMB FUCK TO BE INVOLVED WITH JON PETERS. YOU ARE A TWIT TO THINK THAT MAN HAS "ANY" TALENT. HE HAS THE VISION OF A CATARACT. THE SCRIPT IS GARBAGE. THE DIRECTOR CHOICES ARE SUB-PAR. THE PRODUCER IS A BAG OF ASS. THEY ARE MAKING THE NEXT GODZILLA OR PLANET OF THE APES. AND SO WE ARE CLEAR, THOSE WERE ABORTIONS...............
If this gets made, it will guarentee the end of the superhero genre, no matter what Marvel is producing. -
The reason that we love Superman v. Lex Luthor is that it is the ultimate battle of Brains v. Brawn...Greed v. Generosity...Good v. Evil. The reason that we love Superman is that he is the only one left of his kind...a stranger in a strange land...whose virtues and values urge him not to be Overlord of Earth, but Protector of Earth. Now, they are going to take away all that we love about Superman. Trey Parker and Matt Stone had it right on South Park. Let us save our films from their makers! Let us save our dreams! Let us save our superheroes! We are standing on the verge of a Superhero Rennaisance here. Let us not stand idly by and let another Batman & Robin be made and kill it. Harry and Mori, give us the tools to fight this battle and you shall be surprised the campaign that is launched to protect our superheroes.
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hey guys, you probably know this but this images just fits the situation :) hehe http://www.chud.com/news/sept02/sep23supes.php3 c-ya
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Sep 23, 2002 9:22:55 AM CDT
Congrats WB! You'll acomplish with this one film what it too
by olsonizer
get rid of ratner amd peters. give the franchise to real fans in the industry like Marvels doing. I don't want to watch Independence Day meets Men in Black meets Judge Dredd. WB - if you think your studios franchises are failing now, prepare for a dismal future if this gets made. Youve already alienated all the fans by treating the Batman mythos like this, dont screw up again. Turn your eye to the many many unproduced DC titles and give them to true fans like Shaymalan and Kevin Smith, etc. and then leave them alone.
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Fuck fuck fuck fuck no. Good God, WB, what the fuck are you thinking? Why are you always trying to fuck up franchises which a) make tons of money (and great aesthetic movies) when done right and b) have sixty plus years of love and emotional investment behind them? Are you trying to prove how iconoclastic and irreverent you are? Because from this seat you just look like cunts.
There is nothing at all right with this. NOTHING. NADA. Fuck superpowered Lex, prophecies, unexlpoding Krypton, Jor-El picking the Kents, gay Jimmy, martial artists and the rest of that cornucopia of unbridled shit. It's crap. You aren't clever than Seigel, Shuster, Mario Puzo and all the rest of the guys who brithed Supes, then made an enduring film classic from it.
Set the motherfucker in the 30s. Give him the basic powers. Depression era heroics. You can't beat the '78 movie, so don't try. Get a proper fucking writer, who at least writes both movies and comics (Jeph Loeb? I dunno) and a proper fucking director. Treat it with respect and stop being turdstains, because we hate you. Fuck you. And all those zany for zany's sake, too cool for this planet fuckwads who want to see this abomnation, fuck you too! Shitehawks and ass cleavage, the fucking lot of 'em. -
we also got a new animantion ...
you know superman in a wheelchair would really be more exciting than this pile of crap -
I can actually handle some of the recasting of Superman's originations that are put into this latest script. But if it's all or nothing, PLEASE don't put this out. I promise, I will go to every Warner Brothers film ever made for the rest of my life if you don't put this swill on the screen. Well, maybe not every film, but the good ones. Don't screw up a cultural icon like this!
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Arrogance! Simple Arrogance. It seems like Jon Peters wants to use the acheivements made and the name recognition of an icon to make his own statement. Excuse me Mr. Abrams, but "We don't want to see the boxer shorts skid mark you will try to pass off as Superman. Keep this script and call it something else. Make a new superhero, call him Buttwad Man if you want to draw the gay demoraphic. Whatever. In your quest to do something, "compelling and human" you felt obligated to remove a major antagonist from within our species!?! Lex Luthor was a compelling villian because he was human. He wsa outclassed but his ambition and hatred made him a foe equal to the Man of Steel. So Please WB listen to my humble wisdom. The script sucks. If yo keep it you'll piss of people just like you did when you screwed up Batman. Stay true to the characters (See Spiderman and X-men for example) but don't mess with Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's creation. If people did not like what they had created they would not have embraced it. They did embrace Superman, so as the old addage goes, if it ain't broke, leave it the *&^%& alone! Cripes dude, a fan could write a better script. At least they love the characters, and aren't under the delusion that they know better than everybody else.
I know the hacks at WB are not likely to read this, but as a fan I felt the need to speak out, if for no other reason but to vent.
Thanks AINC! -
Sep 23, 2002 9:31:50 AM CDT
I don't want to be one of those talkbackers that automatical
by jonquixote
But Fuck you Abrams, I wish you were dead. You're a whore and a moron. Why the hell would you sign on to write a Superman script if you obviously don't like Superman. If you really wrote this abomination, you might just be the biggest argument against Free Speech that I've ever heard. Kung fu? SuperLuthor? Suit-in-a-can? Lara being tortured to death? Hari Kari Jor-El? Fuck you Abrams, I wish you were dead.
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Piece of shit.
Seriously, I just registered with AICN to write this. I've been reading for years, but nothing has made me want to contribute until I read this.
Don't Warner know not to fuck with Comic characters? Did anyone who works there actually see Batman Forever and more importantly undrestand why it is the single worst peice of filmaking I've ever witnessed.?
If they do make this travesty, I won't be paying to see it. -
I'm a marvel guy my own self. I've never been a huge fan of the Superman comic books either, but I'll tell you this, when the Superman re-release came out... that movie was so beautiful and reminded me of so many wonderful childhood memories that I cried more than once during that movie (and I'm not the crying type). Because Superman is not about flying fight scenes with Matrix style moves... Superman is about a super powered man who's biggest power is his heart and his only real vulnerability is his love for people, not kryptonite. This script sounds like blasphemy and the people behind it have no respect for anyone who is a fan of the comic or any of the original films. They are only out for money and the "super bad ass and cool" look for this movie that they think will bring in the Jr. High kids over and over again. Please, forget about the whole "death" of Superman story. Yeah, it sold well in the comic book stores because back then it was new and people thought it might be possible since the comic was coming to and end (until that story line saved it)... but people won't believe it anymore, and it's not a new idea and was worn out with the comics. All I'm saying is that you don't take someone's baby and put dog shit on it and try to tell the parents that it's cool looking because it's different.
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Sep 23, 2002 9:37:10 AM CDT
The paperback that came out with the 1st Christoper Reeves movie
by bc1970
had Einstein finding the ship and planting Kal-el with the Kents. Seriously.
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I just don't get it. Everything is absolutely so corporate now, I dare not think of what things will be like 10 years from now. How DARE they?
Again, how DARE they?
If Warner Bros is showing us anything, it's how very WEAK & GREEDY they are! "The first in a trilogy!" So they throw out the holy book of Supes so that they can CASH IN with their OWN franchise! What they SEVERLY don't understand is that these comic franchises popping up are successful because of their complete loyalty to the spirit & soul of these characters.
All they want is kung fu ('cuzz wirework is SO HIP!), GRAND variations on the CLASSIC & SACRED backstory ('cuzz OBVIOUSLY the story they used in 1978 is old & bothered & no one cares or remembers about that anyway!)....
THIS MAKES ME SICK!
You know, I'm not even gonna kiss JJ Abraham's ass here... I don't like ALIAS (it's crap tv!) & the idea that the dude who wrote & created FELICITY has now been put in charge of Supes absolutely SICKENS me!
PLEASE someone, SOMEWHERE, do something about this! Damn Jon Peters & Warner Brothers!
.... Jimmy Olsen is GAY!
Man, & I thought Kevin Smith's script was bad. OY! -
Look. Even if they make it like this, it'll still make enough money to justify a sequel. If you have kids, you'll understand why. They don't give a shit about the origin story you and I know from the Chris Reeves movie, or the 1938 original Amazing comic (or whatever the hell comic, whenever the hell it was). The kids will see TV ads for a film with kickass effects and they'll want to see it. (Remeber what a festering pile of crap Independence day was? Didn't it look awesome in the TV commercials?) And they'll love it, no matter how aweful it is, and they'll beg us to buy all the action figures and lunch boxes and t-shirts, and we will because, lets face it, you can't tell your kid "no, you can't see the new Superman because its not the Superman I grew up with."
Nothing is holy in Holywood, except money, and they don't give a tinker's cuss about what's holy to us. If it sells, they'll sell it to us. They'd sell a rat's asshole to a blind man for a wedding ring if they could.
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WOW ! Would I like to get my hands on some of the drugs they where doing when they wrote that script ! I never liked superman so I don't care if they fuck it up .
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it's hollyweird. if they want to spend their money on it, that's their problem.you don't actually have to go see it you know.to me,this is one the big drawback to reviewing scripts. you just set yourself up to be disappointed.in the end , it's just a f***ing movie.
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Ok. I've never posted on the Talkback before. I've resisted. But I've never read anything that has pissed me off this much before.
If anyone at Warners is reading this, for the love of god, get SUPERMAN right! This is the worst idea I've ever heard for a Supes story. I'm not even a huge superman fan, and I HATE this. Actually, its not so much the story I hate as Warner's total disregard for they history and mythology of an American pop culture icon. If this was some new superhero, one that was invented for this movie, I am sure it would be great. But you have made a decision to tell a Superman story. STICK TO THE BASIC ESTABLISHED MYTHOLOGY!!!!
Ok. Thats it. I've vented, and I feel better. -
Sep 23, 2002 9:57:07 AM CDT
Has WB gone mad...wait a minute... they where never sain to begi
by math1303
How in hell did these people get there jobs? How can peoples who are suppose to analyze what should make more money think in such a unidimentional way? They are blinded by the dollar signs... All they seam to see is comic book movies like spider-man and x-men cashing in big bucks and they also see adventure/sci-fi/fantasy movies like star wars and lord of the ring cashing in too... so what? Did they figure Superman had elements from both genre and so becames the perfect mix? Could this be the reasoning behind such a stupid move? Fuck... they still don't have a clue on what makes a good comic book adaptation good in the first place... All they need to do is respect the source material...
recent release like spider-man and x-men gives me a bit of hope that we might some day see a comic book movie be done the right way... both are still heavelly flawed and far from what we all hope for but still manages to deliver the essential. You know, when I first eard they where gonna go with superman cause they felt they had a great script, I started getting excited at the idea... but then I learn that they are going back to the origine, I though, a remake? Can a remake of superman actually be better than the original? Of course it can but the new one has to be at least as good as the original... it's quite a large task to accomplish. And when I saw this article today, I was excited to find out what the hell they though they had that could be better than the original superman movie. I was septic but hopefull... but then I started reading this review and I just could not beleive what I was reading. That's it, just when I though that WB had hit rock bottom and that they could not go deeper... when you know that there reputation is not good and the only way for them to win back the faith of its fan base they out do themself and go to a new low that you did not knew existed... I mean, this sounds even worst than Batman & Robin. What the hell are they thinking? seriously? I mean it does'nt take a genius to realize that a superman movie can pull in a lot of revenues and multiply that by 3, that makes lots of money. But there thinking seems to stop there... they see X-men and Spider-man making lots of money, they figure nows a good time to go and get some of that profit without realizing that they made profits cause they delivered a good product. They made money cause they gave us, the audience, what we wanted to see. WB are just giving us what they think we want to see. There lies the problem. -
I don't know about this guy, I question anyone who gives himself the name "Night". It just seems really gay.
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Sep 23, 2002 10:03:06 AM CDT
But what about that convenient kryptonite? Ty Zor and Lex would
by bari umenema
OK so it came here as part of a meteor, fine. But ever since this comic book began there has never been a single bit of logic as to why Kal El would be deathly allergic to part of his home world it just doesn't make sense and I don't care about our yellow sun blah blah blah. There is no rhyme or reason for him to be harmed by little bits of Krypton. And wouldn't Ty Zor and Lex also be deathly allergic to it if they are also from Krypton?! This Jerky Jerk Abrams is an over-rated joke, his earlier scripts were sappy and audlin, "Regarding Henry" and "Forever Young" just pure crap. "Felicity" was sentimental romantic collegiate crap. This is what Hollywood gives us so stop rewarding them for subjecting you to pure crap.
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Dude, you had me laughing out loud for like 5 minutes with your "they'd sell a rat's asshole to a blind man for a wedding ring if they could" comment. That is the best explination for a greedy studio that I've ever heard!!
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Sep 23, 2002 10:08:24 AM CDT
Hey, you guys remember back in the times of Caesar when they'
by xthecrovvx
George Lucas, its ok....we can completely forgive you now....because not even Greedo shooting first can compare to the living atrocity that Warner Brothers is about to unleash upon an unsuspecting planet...there is no money, no offer, no order from the gods beyond that can ever make me forgive them for allowing this abortion to get greenlighted. But you know something? I want it to happen. You heard me. I want this project to go forth with Warner Brothers' full blessing and the biggest budget imaginable. I am giving allowance for Jon Peters and co. to take the legend, and rape and dishonor it to the fullest extet. I want it to happen, so that when the fans, the people, the critics, and the children witness it, and call for blood, all accountable, anyone even remotely involved with its creation will be judged. No one will be safe. I want a disaster of Aenima proportions....an aftermath where Mc G, Jon Peters, JJ Abrams, Warner Brothers execs, Brett Ratner(if he doesnt wise up, and pull out RIGHT NOW), and maybe even Akiva Goldsman as collateral damage wont even be able to get a job in Hollywood licking squirrel anuses on Pauly Shore's lawn. This is a disaster waiting to happen. And it should happen so that maybe somebody at Warner Brothers will finally see the light, and do what should've been done the second we saw Bat-nipple cross our celluloid field of vision. Even with this view of the situation, i still have nothing but a rage so intense i can do nothing but laugh my head off at this breech birth in progress. No matter how this goes down, this whole thing should see the elimination of Jon Peters from Warner Brothers before he rapes again. More than ever, people, thank whatever deity you hold dear that Marvel got its shit together back in 98 starting with Blade 1. Stan Lee, Avi Arad, bless the both of ya. Revolution is my na.....my nam... my... mm.. i.... ... ... ...i mean COME ON, MAN!!! LEX LUTHOR'S FROM KRYPTON?!?! WHAT THE GODALMIGHTY CLUSTER FUCK WERE YOU THINKING?! AND KRYPTON NOT BLOWING UP?! A SECOND CAPSULE?!?! 300 FUCKING KRYPTONIANS ON EARTH?!?!?! THIS IS MADNESS!!!! WHY ARE YOU SO EXCITED, YOU CAPITALIST BASTARDS?!?! WHY??? DO YOU NOT SEE THE EVILS AT WORK?!?! YOU MANIACS!!!! DAMN YOUSE!!! GODDAMN YOUSE ALL TO HELL!!!!! DAMN YOU!!!!!! JEEZUS!!!!! AHH!! REVOLUTIO--NO....COMPLETE AND UTTER HATRED IS MY NAME!!! DAMN YOU WARNER BROTHERS!!! FROM HELL'S HEART I STAB AT THEE!@!!!
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This would be the worst adaption of any source material ever. This could be the movie that sinks a studio if Warner Brothers wasn't part of such a huge conglomerate.If this gets made it could ruin the whole comics to film energy that has benn built up the last few years and ruin some really great projects. No t only that, but the pressure that Time Warner would put on DC to sync up the comics and the film universes could destroy the comics as well. There would need to another crisis type maxi-series to revamp a whole comics universe (and not in the way that Marvel ultimized things) that would destroy any reader fanbase.I hate to rant like this, but this is just so wrong on so many levels that I had to write something.
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Sep 23, 2002 10:17:32 AM CDT
Perhpas when they said the script was "excellent," they meant "e
by merry slander
Jesus, Mary and Joseph this sounds abominable. It just goes to show that we've got to get craftier, because Hollywood has now learned to "work" the internet media. How many times have we read about this "excellent" J.J. Abram's script. Just one week ago we had Moriarty championing it in this same space, saying - based on hype alone - that they made the right choice in going with this rather than BvS. He actualyl called John Peters a "hero" in this situation. Somebody owes Lorenzo Di Bonaventure a big fat apology for trying to save us from this tripe. Its a shame too, because Abram's had created something great with Alias. I was really hoping that he had it together on this. I guess I was wrong, and I guess we've got to be more careful about taking that "good buzz" for granted - at least until geek eyes have beheld a script or a rough cut of the film. This stinks. For once, in this case I am in support of some serious script doctoring. Keep the good, ditch the bad and we might have ouselves a move. But please, WB, don't put this insulting tripe onscreen. It won't get my money, at the theater or later on the inevitable DVD. Why would I, or anyone who cares about these characters, pay to see them done disservice to. Shameful is all I can say.
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I was a little upset to be referenced in the same subject line with jpx, but I'll get over it.
I'm talking from my own experience with my kids. The original star wars trilogy is not on DVD, so my kids haven't seen it. Same goes for the 70s/80s Superman movies. They are certainly classics to us, but I don't think the kids really come accross it until the new material comes out, then they might like to go back to the old stuff just to get more out of a cool thing.
Look, I remember Superman The Movie coming out and my reaction to it almost on par with Star Wars. It was after all very soon after. But do you think my kids listen to me when I say "watch this, it was my favorite when I was a kid"? No, they'd rather watch Pokemon. These films just aren't being aimed at us. They know they'll get us in there anyway since we have to take our kids. Maybe I'm wrong. -
Sep 23, 2002 10:21:16 AM CDT
WB, what's "hip", and the death knell of a franchise
by rabid_republican
To say this is idiotic would be a understatement of epic proportions as bloated as this script. Mori hit the nail right on the head when he touched on what I'll term the Arad method of using people who actually give a damn about at least keeping some honest integrity in the origin of a hero. What we basically have here is an "Elseworlds" story. If the WB were to market it as such, well then...they STILL wouldn't make any money! How hard do you actually have to work at something to make it into a debaucle?_________________________
Like Mori, I have issues with the whole ungodly uberhipness of "Smallville". Sure I like new twists as much as the next man, but what I'll tolerate in 'Smallville' is outright inexusable for a bug budget project of this magnitude. Jimmy's gay? Ty-zor? Wha? Huh? Why?_____________________________
The trouble with the most recent takes on Superman have been obsessing over what to do differently as if to say "aha! the kids won't expect this so we'll rattle them a little"...except for the fact we're only rattled by the fact that it sucks out loud. So I guess you could sum this script review as "hip for the sake of being hip is as attrocious as different for the sake of being different". Wish I could feel otherwise, but when you toy around with something this sacred you best be prepared for this kind of backlash. (Keep in mind the Kal-El purist rants about something so innocently toyed with as the original Donner film.) Just once you guys, out there in fanboy land...just once...if this monstrosity ever gets made, let us not indulge in the sadomasochist exercise of trying to suffer through something like this and send these jokers a message. -
Just give it another name and change the names of all the characters and their jobs and change the S on his chest to like some underknown insect, and make just a few script changes to make it unique. I really LOVE the concept of this story. But it needs to be the creation of a new comic hero, not changing an existing one.
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... im going to pretend its a dream and go back to sleep now.
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Ok, I know I'm gonna get wrapped in the mouth for this, but, so what? We all knew this movie was gonna suck no matter what. Warner Bros. hasn't made a decent comic flick in years. What made us all think that Superman would be any better than, say, Steel? Sure, you get a guy with two successful series under his belt to write the movie, and all of a sudden, it's the greatest script the exects have ever read. That's the way it works. They don't know the character. They don't realize that messing with Superman's origin is blasphemy in the eyes of the fans. They just want their toys. Now they can make a flying Lex Luthor! Superman can have kung fu grip! Jimmy can have anal beads! It's this kind of thinking that ruins your franchise. Toys, merchandise, fast food tie ins, it should all be peripheral. Make your spin off material work for you, don't work for the material. You know what? Just let me write the damn movie.
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...sounds fantastic to me. Always thought that Superman the dullest superhero imaginable & the original films were dire.
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Hey, if the kryptonite in the tank doesn't kill him, this lame ass movie certainly will.
Luthor from Krypton? Give me a freaking BREAK! The whole point of the dichotomy between them is that Luthor is HUMAN, yet completely self interested and essentially evil, while Supes is Kryptonian, but essentially selfless and good. That's the point. Supes tries to fit in and defend his adopted world, while Lex punishes and tries to destroy the outsider.
I'm going to have to hear about a 180 degree turnaround on this script before Warner's gets another dime of my money. -
Naw, fuck it. This thing is Super SHITE now matter how you look at it. Bring on the Lobo movie. Oh, and fuck John Peters. Fuck him up his stupid ass.
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Let's trash these guys to AOL and anybody else who will listen. I'm usually not in favor of these fanboy attacks but this is absolutely nuts. Maybe no Superman movie will get made at all in the end but at least we'll have put a stop to this trash.
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Fuck Warner Brothers, fuck them up their stupid asses. Has JJ ever even read a Superman comic? Do we need another gawddamned version of Supe's origin? Does WB care at all that this does not jibe in any way with their current TV hit Smallville? Do they realize that a major part of the success of Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man was due to these films' incredible FIDELITY to the source material? Does Warner have anything but contempt for the audience in general and comic book fans in particular? The answer to all these questions seems to be a big fucking NO. How I wish Supes was owned by the estates of the creators (Siegel and Shuster), like LOTR, so they could slap down this piece of shit before it embarasses everyone involved. Please, God, kill these assholes before they destroy again.
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Because it will bankrupt the WB, especially if they decide to spend $200 mil or more on it. We will also have the added pleasure of having everyone involved run out of Hollywood on a rail.Maybe then we can get someone in there that knows what the hell they're doing.___So I say, "You go WB! Go Jon Peters! Go Alan Horn! Go JJ Abrams!" Kill the character, kill the WB and kill yourselves.___Moriarty, you need to post this script online for everyone to read. Maybe then the WB will be forced to start over.
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I remember searching the Internet looking for Kevin Smith's "perfect Superman screenplay." I believed the hype, so when I finally read it I was pretty disappointed. But, can I blame him? No, not really. I mean, he worked with what he had. I mean, he had to include the death of Superman, Doomsday, Braniac, Lex Luther, the Eradicator, a big spider, polar bears at the fortress of solitude. Any writer, no matter the passion or storytelling abilities, would suffer under those conditions. Kevin Smith didn't make those decisions, the studio did. I feel that the same is probably true for J.J. Abhrams. Some of the things presented sound interesting. Sounds like it would make a good elseworlds tale, but perhaps not the best vehicle for a big screen version of Superman. And, in my opinion, the stupidest thing of all is the costume. I mean, they're stealing that from the Flash. Totally moronic. Ah, but with all this talkback, I doubt the draft will ever be made. Why can't they re-hire Kevin Smith, or maybe Mark Waid, and give them some freedoms to work with.
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How about a truly faithful adaptation of the original comic. Do not update or modify anything. Set the Smallville stuff in the 20's. Set the rest of it in the 40's. Basically do a panel by panel recreation of the original source material. Real comic geeks would love it. The problem with Hollywood is that everyone thinks they're a genius. They can't stand to work on a property without having to insert some asinine idea of their own. Hollywood execs believe that there is no property which they can't improve with their own coke-inspired brainstorms. This mentality can and has include Shakespeare and the Bible. FUCK hollywood execs. FTUTSA. If a faithful adaptation is impossible, then bring on Lobo vs. Superman, or better yet Lobo vs. Peters and Abrams.
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You know, even after my ill-conceived rant back there, I'm still pissed. I love this character, and I can't bear to watch Warner fuck him up that badly. There are a few simple rules you must obey while writing Superman. First off, he's from Krypton. Krypton exploded, it's the whole reason he's here. Secondly, Lex Luthor is the perfect adversary for Superman. You know why? Because he represents everything that is wrong with this planet. THIS PLANET! Not Krypton, not Mars, not fucking Naboo, EARTH! Get it right J.J. I'm not blasting the man for wanting to try something different. Obviously he was experimenting and I'll give him the respect he deserves for making such radical changes, but come on. This isn't Superman. e mail me J.J. I swear, I can make this movie ten times better if you just give me the chance. You don't even have to pay me, just a little on screen credit would do.
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six-issue mini-series for DC succeeded where Abrams fails miserably. Byrne took a burned-out, demigod character and revitalized him for fans. Most appealing about The Man of Steel was the sense of discovery it had about it. From Supes' origin, to his powers, stories, and supporting cast, it was all immensely fresh, no small task considering the character's iconic status. Despite this freshness, the series was faithful to the spirit of the Superman mythos. I say put Byrne's The Man of Steel in the hands of a script-writer and tell them to faithfully adapt it. While I do not always agree with Moriarty's reviews, he has stated certain facts in this script review that cannot be refuted. Abrams has gone beyond tinkering into tampering and despoiling with this ricockulous reinvention.
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Certain people need to die:
1.Tim Burton
2.George Lucas
3.and all the rest -
Sep 23, 2002 10:43:57 AM CDT
From an interview with Kevin Smith about his dealings with Peter
by sharmuta
"Actually, I even got along with Peters most of the time, even though he did have kooky ideas and sometimes you had to reign him in and say, 'You don't want to do that.' But sometimes you have to succumb to the stupidity, like having Brainiac fight polar bears in the Antarctic when he goes to the Fortress of Solitude. It's embarrassing. He was always saying that Brainiac should give Luthor a space dog, something from that menagerie of his. He gives Luthor a dog; Luthor is afraid of the dog, and the dog hates him. I'm like, 'It doesn't really lend to the story; why do you want that?' 'Because I need a Chewie.' This was during the time of STAR WARS' re-release, and he said, 'Chewie's cuddly, man. You could make a toy out of him, so you've got to give me a dog.' It's something I fought the whole time, and finally I guess I won him over with, 'Look, Jon, you don't need a Chewie.' He's forever influenced by the things he's seen."
Including Smith's own work. In fact, the day after seeing CHASING AMY, Peters called Smith and said, "That gay black guy in your movie did an excellent job; that's what we need in SUPERMAN. We need that kind of attitude, that voice. What about L-Ron [Brainiac's robotic assistant], can't he have a voice like that? Can't he be gay? I want a gay R2D2.' I was thinking that this man is either the most progressive individual in films today or just a flat-out idiot. It's a real thin line. I won some battles; I lost some. We had a great time doing it. The studio loved the script."
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Peters must be the biggest jackass in Hollywood, and boy is that saying something. We've got to barrage AOLTimeWarner with so many complaints that we get his ass away from Supes forever. Not in my darkest nightmares did I ever think that Superman would be destroyed the way he is trying to destroy him. This guy must be stopped.
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All right guys, let's fill up the Warner Bros. mailbag with what we really think about this Superman crap!
http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/main/fanmail/home.jsp -
Sep 23, 2002 10:51:11 AM CDT
In all my years of reading this site, I believe that this is the
by village idiot
Be in line to see this movie opening day? No way in hell. The BATTLEFIELD EARTH analogy is apt here. Blechhh!
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That's....... just....... swful. Why would they do such a thing? Say it isn't so? Some really early April fools?
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...and was replaced by the producers of The Matrix and LOTR. Hopefully they'll hire new writers.
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where he's on the mountain, listening to the world, they took that from the novel Superman: Miracle Monday, that came out around the time of Superman I/II. But in the novel scene he's already established, he just goes up there to "open up" his hearing to take in the whole world for some reason I can't recall.
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Sure, it needs some rewriting done on it. Making LL a Kryptonian is just stupid, as is Jor-El talking Kal-El back to life. But the opening scene with the Kryptonian Civil War sounds intriging - I'd pay to see that. I'm picturing a TERMINATOR future war kind of scene. There's no reason why continuity can't be played with a little bit so that Krypton isn't destroyed in the first film. I assume Krypton will probably be destroyed in the second part of the trilogy, probably as a result of the civil war. Turn this Kata-Zor character into General Zod and you might just have something there. In all, it sounds like there are some truly great scenes in this script and some parts that just don't work at all, but with some rewrites, maybe all of it can gel together.
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...sees this thread and talkback.
The adaptions that work-the Original Superman(in my mind, THE GREATEST comic book movie EVER!!!)Spiderman, Dick Tracy, The Rocketeer-all faithful in spirit to the material theyre adapting.
Spiderman just make a killing and these fucking yahoos STILL can't learn from it.
Amazing. Im speechless from the stupidity here.Its pathetic really. HACKS HACKS HACKS
HOW DO THESE PEOPLE GET THEIR JOBS.
All these fucking people should be fired!
BTW, this needs to be said.....THE MATRIX FUCKING SUCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!!!STAY TRUE TO THE FRANCHISE STOP PISSING AROUND WITH UNKNOWN VILLAINS,NO KUNG FU,JU JITSU, WU TANG, SHAQ FU OR ANY CRAP LIKE WHAT WE ALL JUST READ ,JUST REGULAR ALL OUT KNOCK DOWN SUPERPOWERED FIGHTING!!!JUST GET JIM CAMERON OR MICHAELBAY OR RICHARD DONNER TO DIRECT STOP HIRING IDIOTS THAT INVENT STORIES THAT THERE 5 YR OLD DREAMT ABOUT.... THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS-DO THE RIGHT THING.
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Give me a break? What the hell are they thinking? The plot elements are ridiculous. Ridiculous. You cannot scrap this much heritage in a movie redo?
How many times has Superman been reinvented? Too many to count. And the franchise has been horribly diluted with each new reincarnation of the classic hero.
I would rather watch Superman IV 100 times (with the attendant hospitalization required) than watch this garbage ONCE. -
.. and theyll never be able to remake or redo the origin as well.
Its prefect so why even try.
DIE WB DIE -
But I just had to say that this is Superman film sounds dreadful. It's ok to tweak his origin here and there, but a total overhaul like this is just a slap in the face to the fans. It's like rewriting the Bible to some people. Greenlighting this script is the worst idea Warner has had in some time.
Moriarty is right; they just don't care about the source material. Fuck you, Warners. -
to me, it sounds like that POTA script that was floating around -- it's shocking because it's so different from the original, and clearly needed to fix a few things (the scened where they're on the POTA planet and they see exact replicas of earth bc the apes have been watching tv would have had to GO) -- but yet wouldn't it have been much more interesting than what we got?
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I don't know if that was a mistake above, but SUPERMAN THE MOVIE is very much on DVD. At least it's available on Region 2. The original movie (with just the trailer I think) has been around for years, but the SPECIAL EDITION is a real treat - contains hours of bonus footage, documentaries and featurettes, plus screen tests etc. Definitely worth a purchase.
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I lost my breakfast after reading this load of crap. I am a big Superman fan and can't believe this load of crap I just read. Hey, did I mention this is a load of crap???
Costume in a can? Jor-El contacted Martha and Jon about this years earlier? Jon dies again? Lex is an alien? Lois and Clark meet at a Kegger? Every city BUT Metropolis was seen? Krypton does not explode? Lots of aliens but no Green Lanterns? Gotham and no Batman?
Lets re-invent the character and have him grow up in Detroit as a Tigers' fan...that will mess with everyone's head.
Stop the infection at the source and kill the virus. Mr. Abrahms and I use that word loosely, I say good day to you sir. I say good day! -
Thank god I am not a big Super Man fan, heck thank god I am not a big DC fan outside the wonderfull Batman cartoons but still this sounds soooo bad. I don't understand why a studio who has 100's of comic stories to choose from, and 100's of villians to choose from and a comic that is loved by millions. I don't get why they would feel the need to change it so much. It might even make a good movie if it wasn't a Superman movie. God WB sucks.
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Going way back to the first post, M. Night Shyamalan at the helm of this or ANY superhero movie could be spectacular. As stated he's already proven his love and knowledge of the genre with UNBREAKABLE (anyone see Jackson's comic-book stuff on the DVD?) and can add a darkness (to SUPERMAN especially) that is clearly lacking in this novelty effort (I still don't think it's real, but...). He could also do a fantastic BATMAN.
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Well, I've decided to write the damn movie myself. If Warner Bros. wants to reinvent Superman, fine, but they have to let me do it. I'll start the script tonight. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I'll take whatever you got. I'll get the script online as soon as I've finished writing, and if I need any ideas, I'll be stealing them from the usual gang of talkbackers.
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Since this is the first of a trilogy ... does this mean that although Krypton doesn't explode in Episode 1, does it mean it will probably explode in Episode 2 or 3?
Krypton not exploding is a mistake. All I know is this script ... as terribly flawed as a lot of it sounds (though it does seem to have a some really good scenes) ... doesn't have OTIS. I hope they don't screw with the suit too much. -
Just kidding. Judging from this review, Warner Bros is currently being run by Daffy Duck himself, with support from Porky Pig and Wile E. Coyote. And not only that, but those damn cartoon animals must be eating some very weird mushrooms or something, in an airtight room filled with pott smokers. Otherwise, this major boo boo cannot be explained. Time to start selling that AOL Time Warner stock people!
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Hey, are you sure this script wasn't written by Mark Millar.
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Two words "Pluto Nash" WB spent 125 million and the same people who voted for that are voting for this over the Batman VS Superman film. the guy who was behind developing the Matrix and Harry Potter had his super-hero film shot down. The one film that has a chance to make the kind of coin that Spider-Man has and they blow it. I myself am in the film industry and can't believe my eyes when reading the details of this dog's breakfast. I think they should let outside parties who are not Warner Executives who are afraid of losing their jobs evaluate both scripts and judge them on their merits. Warner bros has clearly lost touch with what the public wants to see.
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Personally I don't think the origin needs re telling again. Maybe some sort of catchup sequence at the beginning would do. I think the original movies are so ingrained into the public conciousness that any new movie shouldn't contradict them (well not 1&2 anyway). I'm not saying have this as a direct sequel, but I think that people are familiar enough with the basic origin of Superman, that it's a bit of a waste of movie to retell the origin again. Just give us a great Superman movie, that may or may not be a continuation of the original movies. The movie should just be in a world where Superman already exists.
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Sep 23, 2002 11:30:05 AM CDT
OK Mori, here's what we do when you're in NYC this weeke
by renonevada2000
We break into AOL/Time-Warner/ Cougar-Meloncamp world headquarters and just take massive craps on all the executives' desks! I mean, isn't that what they're doing to us fans?
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at least there will be no sequel if this version gets made. Unfortunately, there will be no other films released after this, as movie goers will burn down all theaters in the fear that an abomination of this magnitude could be repeated. Listen very carefully: you can't call this Superman if you change EVERYTHING about the story. Superman is not simply his powers, he's a character defined by his history. And what's with this prophecy crap? The single biggest lame-o copout in storytelling is the tired, overused "chosen one" motiff. Clark Kent makes his own choices, based on the values instilled by the only parents he's ever known - the staunchly midwestern Kents, to serve all of mankind. To use his powers for good. And Luthor as a kryptonian? Doesn't even deserve the dignity of a counter argument. I love superhero movies, and there's no way I would ever see this one. Not in a million fucking years.
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Even the first Batman wasn't this unfaithful to the comic! The first Batman is like set in stone as the golden goose of comic book movie franchise kick offs, and even though it fiddled with the source material(Joker killed Bruce Wayne's parents) it did not even think to go this far! I had hoped last week that when Mori said Krypton doesn't explode, he meant it would be destroyed in some new and unexpected way(being engulfed by the red sun was just one potential TB idea). But this . . . words fail me. This isn't Superman! It's a potentially interesting NEW superhero story, but it's not Superman. Actually, scratch that, it's not potentially interesting at all. It's just bad. This is what you write if your intro to Superman is "Lois and Clark" reruns on TNT, which featured this same sort of Kryptonian Warriors/Alien Empire Politicing crap, which is not a part of Superman's tale. I know it's pretentious to act like anyone is reading this and cares, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't make this script! Please, even if this is really the one you've got, say Mori's crazy and has the wrong script then rewrite the thing with the help of someone like Paul Dini and make THAT one. Don't do this! It will be a disappointment. It will be another of these big budgeted disappointments that you've had ALL summer for the last several years! Don't do it! Make this one count, WB, make something that is worthy of the pop culture significance of Superman. Make this script, and you'll finish off what little potential you're franchise properties have! You'll be done, you'll have fulfilled the last of a series of broken promises and theatrical FAILURES that will leave you ruined. ******* Jimmy Olsen's gay? How are gay people not offended by this increasingly popular Hollywood gimic of forced meaningless homosexuality imposed on some forgettable supporting character that is no part of the film's appeal? This sounds like that Johnny Galecki role in Bounce, who arbitrarily anounces he's gay just so we know there's a gay character in the film and how right it is that the filmmakers have included him. It makes me sick. Tokenism, while bad, at least gets non whites some exposure that can be good, but just pointlessly pegging some little character as gay when no one CARES is shameless. What the hell is Jimmy even doing in this thing? There's no room for anyone without super powers in this monster of a script--even Lex is a Superman now.
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I have the same problem with this that I had with the original movie. WHY KILL OFF PA KENT?? What the fuck's the purpose of that? It's stupid! I mean yes, Krypton not blowing up is stupid. A truck load of Kryptonians flying around Earth is STUPID! Lex Luthor CIA/Alien is Fucking Full-ON STUPID! But why does every screenplay seem to want to kill off Pa Kent? Okay WB. Here's your scriptment. Krypton is about to explode. Jor-El and his wife Lara send their son off the planet in a rocket. The Great Kryptonian computer "Brainiac" also launches a rocket with his "memory" stored on board. Kal-El's rocket lands out side Smallville where it's found by John and Martha Kent. They raise their son to be a considerate, well mannered respectable human being. But when he's old enough they tell him about his true heritage. He goes on a quest of discovery and ends up in the Artic where he finds the rocket containing "Brianiac". Together they create the fortress of Solitude and Brainiac teaches Kal-El about his true past. Eventually, the Man of Steel leaves the nest and ventures to Metropolis where he meets Lois and Jimmy and Perry. And Lex is a Mega Billionaire Business Executive who uses his employees like Kleenex. When The Big Red "S" shows his face, Lex devises a plan to remove the obstacle using his intelligence, some Krypton and a man of steel of his own appropriately named "Metallo". They fight, Metallo gets the upper hand due to the Krypton Rock in his chest, but Superman emerges as The Winner, perhaps because of the intervention of a friend or because of his own ingenuity. But he takes the robot back to the fortress of solitude where Brainiac supposedly is studying it. But in fact, he's using the body himself to break free of his computer prison. The first movie would end with Superman being the hero of Metropolis, Lex escaping blame with his wealth to protect him, and Brainiac with a Krypton modified Metallo body demolishing and walking away from the Fortress of Solitude. There. Now what's wrong with THAT story?
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That whole rat's asshole/wedding ring/blind man comment was not only hilarious, it was quite appropriate. It seems that the public is made up of blind men and this movie is the rat's asshole the studio is trying to marry us with. Or maybe, Warner Bros. is the blind man with Peters' asshole marrying them to this movie. Or, and I could be reaching here, maybe the rat's asshole is the fanboy expectations that are always skewing their reactions to visionary projects and the fanboys are expecting the studios to be blind when they marry themselves to the movie. Okay, that last part was bullshit. I'd like to also make the following observations: Lex Luthor does not fly. Lex Luthor is not an alien. Krypton explodes. Jimmy Olsen...could be gay, but not in a Bobby Trendy kind of way. Superman does not need kung fu to whup a villain's ass. While I do like some aspects of the script (the reimagining of Lex Luthor's HUMAN CIA backstory was decent, as was Superman's reconciling the weight of the world's problems and showing some vulnerability...I think it's good to further humanize him), other things need to be removed completely. All things Naboo should go. And the costume? Why does Superman need Spawn's costume? He can fly around Smallville with his super schlong hanging out when he's a kid, but when he grows up he needs a special suit? I'll take "Retarded Plot Devices" for $1000, Alex. There's potential here, especially in some of the fighting scenes, but it needs MAJOR work to become the opening chapter of a viable franchise.
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...this script sounds like it has a few droplets of genius, but they're lost among an ocean of crap. Krypton DOESN'T explode? LUTHOR is a CIA agent? LUTHOR is a doctor? LUTHOR is KRYPTONIAN? KAL-EL dies and TALKED back into living by JOR-EL? Oh, Jesus. If anything, I'll watch it if it's the first film of an MST3K return. I do like the suit-in-the-canister idea, though. And I'm willing to give the battle scenes a shot. Instead of ZY-TOR or whoever, why not use General Zod? Why would Superman need to know kung-fu? He's F*CKING SUPERMAN! I haven't prayed in a while, but I'll definitely be praying for a re-write the next couple of weeks. Now and Forever, Poops
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The script would really work! But only with the perfect cast:
Tom Selleck as Superman (with the mustache)
Jack Black as Lex Luthor
Brian Blessed as Jor-El, probably in Hawkman costume from Flash Gordon remake
Matthew Broderick as Jimmy Olsen
Joe Pesci as Pa Kent
Patricia Arquette as Ma Kent.
(In interesting plot twist, the Kents are from Brooklyn and Superman crashes in Central Park)
Cher as Lois Lane
Ozzy Osbourne as Perry White.
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Avi based Spider-Man off of the first Christopher Reeve Superman movie. You can't beat it, except that Krypton looked insanely stupid as a bunch of white crystals. I mean, what the hell did they EAT?
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Ok! Alias is a great show. But my vision of the worst treatment of superman possible doesnt even come close to this. I would have rather seen Tim Burton's Blood red costume and gay robot then this load of crap. If this Script gets made its going to be the biggest box office disaster in history. If anyone would like to discuss this please email me. I feel the need to vent! GOD HELP WARNER BROS.
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Sep 23, 2002 12:06:33 PM CDT
Excuse my harsh language, but IS THIS A FUCKING JOKE, HARRY?
by theginger twit
Something is seriously fucking wrong here. Seriosuly fucking wrong. I swear that hollywood works like the rest of the country, don't employ new talent, just teach those in your bloodline to work old tricks. I'm sorry... could be a really good fun movie - I even forgive smallville... but this is NOT Superman!
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Just wanted to make a rational point as a movie goer and comic-book fan (in my 40s!).
The only reason I access this website frequently is for Moriarty's news. The rest of the contributors to this sorry site are like 75% of the readers - sad, unintelligent, inarticulate, sad people who need somewhere to rant and scream because no-one who knows them actually wants to hear what they say. I suggest you look at most of the postings on this talkback for confirmation of this.
Moriarty stands out from this pile of dross as someone who has a good number of braincells and knows how to use them. His postings are always well-informed, balanced and objective.
If any other contributor to this site had written a dammning review of a script like this, then I wouldn't have given it a second thought. However, Moriarty has earned respect both for his written words and, in this case, his opinions.
So, here's my two cents: When I heard the creator and writer of one of the most innovative and entertaining series on TV had been commissioned to write the script of the new Superman movie, I was ecstatic. Here was someone who wouldn't stick with formulaic plots and have the balls to create a superhero flick with twists, turns and hopefully a new spin.
Sounds to me, he had that in mind. What concerns me is that his ideas are being 'doctored' by executives who are automating the script-by-numbers by taking demographic data and marketing statistics, then telling JJ that there must be a token gay, an emotional death and god-knows what else.
I grew up on Superman and consider him to be one of the true icons of the USA. However, he needs to move into the 21st century, so I don't really have an issue with changing some of the traditional plot elements. Look at Marvel's Ultimate line of comic books - their facelifts of the most popular characters have been hailed and lauded throughout. Why can't this be done on film also?
Don't burn the first draft, Mr Abrams. Just use it as a template and nurture the many good ideas you obviously have in there. Throw away the token crap you have been 'advised' to incorporate and run with your convictions. At the end of the day, we could all end up with an incredibly gripping, twisting, turning, exciting, but most of all, entertaining superhero movie that sets the standard for others to follow.
I accept Moriarty's criticisms - I have read enough scripts myself to know when they are good or stinkers, and I trust Moriarty's judgement on this one. However, if the story can justify Lex Luthor having superpowers, then hear him out. Let's face it, Abrams is known for his superb twists in the stroylines of Alias, and no-one would suspect that Luthor was from Krypton also (mainly because 60 years of comic books have TOLD us he isn't!). With the right director, such a revelation would be incredible... or it could be the worst faux pas in cinema history.
JJ Abrams is experienced, and he has proven himself as a scriptwriter in the major leagues.
This is an early draft - give him a chance.
Over to you, rabble! -
Sep 23, 2002 12:08:56 PM CDT
Jesus, The Comedian's Superman Treatment Was 1,000 Times Bet
by thecomedian
You can read it at http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13129. It's got a few kinks but my casting choi...I mean his casting choices are brilliant, spot on! But don't you scummy little Warner Bros. Junior execs think of ripping me...I mean him off.
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I admit this script was a steaming pile of kryptonian shit (now with new red kyrptonite flavor)But do we seriously nedd another net petition out there? It seems like everytime a hollywood type farts anymore a petition is started on the web....
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Moriarty is way off on this one... I've read this script... And it kicks major ass... It's about time we got a fresh take on Superman... Aren't there enough versions of the classic mythology? Abrams script is true to the spirit of Superman... It shows us the things we love about that character and his story in a new way... The first two Reeves movies are the best superhero movies ever... So why even try to remake them? Why not let them exist on their own and come up with a fresh spin? Smallville is classic... Superman Adventures is classic... Justice League is classic... Hell, gimme some vision that doesn't betray the myth... That's exactly what Abrams has done... Moriarty's review is the internet at its worst... a great script in the fledgling stages of life has been chopped up and dished out to the fans completely out of context... All that's gonna do is piss everybody off... Abrams has written a great Superman script. The fans should read it for themselves before losing any sleep.
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Sep 23, 2002 12:23:33 PM CDT
I never thought I'd say this about a Superman movie, but I h
by blue devil
Superman was a comic book character for 40 years before someone made a good movie out of him (thank you, Richard Donner!), and I fear it will be another 40 years before he can be revived. The current WB brass have no idea or direction with this character. They're hiring names and throwing money at the problem. How about this? THROW SOMEONE WHO CARES AT THE PROJECT! Stop with the current "it" crop of creators and go back to basics: talented writers, directors and producers. Why are they hiring a TV guy to write this film? Why are they hiring flash-in-the-pan directors? Why are they getting crummy producers? Please, let Superman lie until someone worthy of the character comes along.
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I can only hope Mort was fed a bogus script. Where to begin ..
A liquid suit that forms around Supes? Come-on. Didn't Marvel do this in the Secret Wars? Didn't that suit become Venom after it turns on Spider-Man? maybe that's part two of the trilogy!
Superman 2: Lex and Sux Strike Back. In this episode, a super-powered Lex Luthors teams up with a pissed of Superman suit out for revenge.
I'm not a Superman worshiper -- I grew up LOVING Spider-man. He was me. And, though they took liberties with the script somewhat -- I didn't care. Spider-Man was perfect for me.
But, I feel as an AMERICAN I have some vested interest in Superman. It may be a DC comic, but HE'S an American ICON.
I love the Donner Superman. It held to what Super-man was and didn't screw the myth up. Why do all WB super-hero movies after Superman have to suck? (Just go watch the poor little british Tiny Tim in SupesII that says, "please don't kill my pa!" while standing in an 'American' country town. Puh,Leez.
This script: Lex from Krypton? Kung-Fu fighting? Super-man not being the last son of a lost civilization? He DIES? Wasn't that done to great effect in the comics? (and I have the bagged death version WITH armband -- never opened if ya want it).
Why even call this Superman? It should just be Atomic Man - The Hero of the Next Generation.
Britney Spears can play Lois Lane as an intelligent blonde, and Jimmy Olsen can be played by Sean Hayes of Will and Grace fame. Lex of course, should be played by Marlon Brando or Val Kilmer -- whichever is available. Atomic Man (Superman for the dim witted) can be played by a computer generated stand-in. Jor-El can be played by Kuato from Total Recall. Yoda will play Yoda.
But really, can a film be bad with Ma Kent being raped? I mean seriously. In closing, isn't this really a remade Superman 2 script in a lot of ways? Just askin'. -
please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! please dont make that superman movie! -
I've been sitting at this computer every day reading the updates for this Superman movie coming up, then I read this.All this script i going to do i Fuck up a legend.They definitely need someone else to write this script.
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Have the first superman film deal with Krypton and it's downfall and distruction and then the raising of clark - ending with him becoming Superman in an enormously exxciting event that reveals him to the world and closes us out to the next film. The second film can be about Clark and superman and being torn between the two. Saving the world while being torn between his two identities. Also a huge debarckle with lex luthur. Lex being a very worthy HUMAN nemesis. Then the final film can be the big revelation film, Fugshme what would happen - but you see what I'm saying?
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...'cause he's not from the streets. Seriously though, you fanboys (and girls) need to get your underoos out of that bunch you've twisted. This movie WILL NOT GET MADE. Just like the Kevin Smith Superman didn't get made. Just like Nic Cage/Tim Burton Superman didn't get made. Just like Superman vs Batman didn't get made. Just like Batman: Year One won't get made. Trust me, we'll see this flick around the same time we see Indiana Jones 4 with a Pink Floyd/Roger Waters reunion playing in the parking lot. sk
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I used to be an avid Superman comic collector, but stopped about year after Death of Superman storyline (marriage, house, etc., will do that!). My wife and I love Smallville. We love ALIAS. The wife loved Felicity. HATE this new script!! Sorry, JJ, but this is crap. I'd say wait a few years and give Tom Welling the job when a better script comes along. We just saw him on Regis and Kelly, and that dude really fits the part. He's 6'-3". If he bulks up a little, and is a little older, he'd be the perfect Superman. He's great on Smallville. I believe he's actually about 23 years old. Anyway... I rarely post in the Talkbacks, but this JJ Abrams script deviates too much from the tried-and-true (and successful!) mythos in the comic books. Ya gotta blow up Krypton, Jonathon Kent doesn't have to die, Lex needs to be an evil rich businessman, etc...
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well, most importantly, this whole thing about Lex being a kryptonian is bullshit. The cool thing about Lex was the dynamic between him and Superman. The fact that it was his wealth, power and most importantly his mind that challenged Superman. He was an ordinary person but incredibly smart. Brains versus brawns. As much as the luthor character has been reinvented over the years that has been the one constant. second. If you are going to have other kryptonians why not at least go with original mythology and use Zod and his crew. It already sounds like a reinvention of the Superman 1 and 2 premise so why not at least use the same characters.
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well, most importantly, this whole thing about Lex being a kryptonian is bullshit. The cool thing about Lex was the dynamic between him and Superman. The fact that it was his wealth, power and most importantly his mind that challenged Superman. He was an ordinary person but incredibly smart. Brains versus brawns. As much as the luthor character has been reinvented over the years that has been the one constant. second. If you are going to have other kryptonians why not at least go with original mythology and use Zod and his crew. It already sounds like a reinvention of the Superman 1 and 2 premise so why not at least use the same characters.
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Haven't they done an NFLSuperpro movie? Or at the least PREZ?
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Sep 23, 2002 12:53:08 PM CDT
First Off, Abrams Has It Wrong Because William Leathr Incinerate
by buzz maverik
...He immediately got on the horn to Randall Dowling who was dissecting an interstellar policeman powered by some sort of emerald colored lantern. They laughed about how Kim Susskind assainated a Princess/Ambassador from an all female hidden society. No one yet knows what Jacob Greene is up to or what he has actually become.
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somebody please beat me to death with a Betty Boop comic. I would rather have that happen for eternity than ever even remember what I just read. How can somebody do things so right but at the same time oh so very, very WRONG!!! The action scenes would be cool if they weren't trying ram them done the throat. The emotional side is also finally so perfect but, ther're must be a better way of getting their. OH PLEASE GOD, don't make this movie.
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They want to reintroduce Superman and his mythology to the audience with whatever new actor and look they're going to develop for the new films. THAT IS FINE! They want continuity and a way to distinguish themselves from the classic treasures. That's a fine desire, but reinventing THIS MUCH is wrong. They're right to think that Classic as the original film is, you don't want to be tied to that version of the events. Ma and Pa Kent are dead in that scenario, and Lex Luthor is a wanted criminal instead of the powerful conglomerate of the new comics. It's so much easier to explain Kal-El's powers, his limitation regarding lead, and his weakness of Kryptonite if you're starting at the beginning where we rediscover everything as Clark is just finding out. So what if it's been done? The bitch is in the details. The trouble is, this draft doesn't even bother with those advantages. Pa Kent dies, Lex is a double agent for aliens, and the movie starts in the middle of the action between Superman and some unknown menace!!! Whoever the hell these guys are, we really don't care. Unless you START with how Superman began, we cannot get into some stranger wearing the tights/latex/Jon Peters inspired sex suit(so the suit rips off teenaged Clark's clothes and consumes him, huh?) It's so convoluted, and it has nothing to do with the existing mythology that hasn't yet been adapted to the screen(not the live action big screen anyway) that I can't see anyone WANTING to get pulled in. TY ZOR? Like Mori said, why do we care? I think the four people on this board saying this is good are doing so just to be contrary(or they're moles, but that's too easy). This won't please anyone, not even average movie goers. It's too much impersonal spectacle, which Lucas has proven does NOT connect with audiences, even with his high profile Star Wars movies. Just LOOK at Attack of the Clones grosses, the film is a disappointment, a shadow of the franchise's former self, and WB needs a super nova hit here, not a tired heaving thing that just barely makes it. Like SW, this needs to be enormous or its no good, and this will never be the home run they could get with a GOOD script. I am not a Spider-Man reader, I'm not even much of a comic book fan, but Ultimate Spider-Man retold a familiar origin story very well for me, it did not get bogged down in the mythology, it stayed focused on the characters. That's what it was about, but it kept the rest of the material accurate(from what I'm told) and so it delivered on all counts. I possessed about as much awareness of Spider-Man then as the average film watcher will have of Superman for this film. The origin story should and can be done, but done at a digestible pace. This thing is as bad as starting in the middle of an established Superman series.
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no midgets, not even a dwarf. How can you have a Superman movie without midgets?
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Agreed. Get Kevin Smith to write the story line then ask Shyamalan to write the script. Sorted. Another thing, maybe Below should be getting it's own print space. It's got lost in the talkbacks. Sounds great though.
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Okay first of all, stop saying that Superman is an american icon, he's canadian. Second, the script isn't all that bad. Just take out Naboo, or Krypton or whatever, and keep Lex human, (hey he can still work for the C.I.A. get fired and I don't know use his vast fortune??? to set on a one man crusade against supes and other little grenn men), and don't make Superman and his Dad die. (By the way, in the comics didn't his dad talk him out of being dead??) And well, you're left with three good scenes and no story... Uhm well okay this script does suck after all. But they do seem to have a couple of good scene, but I guess superpowered people kickin' each other's ass is always good no matter the story. No seriously there is good element from this script You just have to look but a MAJOR REWRITE IS IN ORDER.
P.S. Jimy Olsen is gay??? -
Actually that is not quite right. This sounds like the worst adaptation of a film Ive ever heard of. If there are ANY Warner execs who read Talkbacks, think about this for one second. I am 26 years old, and know the Superman story very well. So does my mother, who is 51. My grandmother knew the Superman story. My nephew, who is all of 3 knows Superman. Superman is as established as can be. The J.J Abrams script has nothing to do with Superman. Just throw some good actors into the cast, get a director who wants to tell a SUPERMAN story, and not some kung fu, sci fi bullshit, and stick with the character and story that people KNOW. Dont reinvent the wheel, here. You dont have to. Spider-Man made how much money? Thats right; a shitload. And why? Because a lot of people went to see it more than once. I doubt I will even see this bogus Superman film if you go with the Abrams script. My advice: Look at your Harry Potter franchise. It made money because you never strayed too far from the source material. It makes a lot of sense. Now, apply that to Superman.
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That Rambaldi guy saw EVERYTHING -- first Sidney, now Kal-El. God, this sounds like dreck. Who wouldn't put it past Abrams to throw in Kara (Supergirl) and Krypto in the next couple of movies? Worst. Adaptation. Ever.
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An open letter to anyone with any involvement in the Superman movie.
The most important thing to understand is that Superman is a cultural icon the world over. Practically every single person in the civilized world knows at least the general story and major characters. - He was shot off Krypton in a rocket right before the planet exploded, making him the last Kryptonian. The rocket was discovered by the Kents, who raised him as their own. He's known as Clark Kent, mild mannered reporter. He loves Lois Lane. Lex Luthor is his nemesis (and is human, by the way). - These are facts that practically everyone knows. People who have never read a Superman comic book in their lives know this much at the very least. If you change these facts, it will not only enrage the hardcore comic book fans, but it will also confuse the general audience. They are coming into the movie with a pre-established knowledge of the characters and story. That can't be helped. As someone here wrote earlier, Superman is "probably the most universally identifiable comic creation of all time".
That being said, you want Superman to fight other Kryptonians? Here's how to do it without throwing away established history....
Krypton was an advanced civilization. Like earth, only a few hundred years into the future. So they may have had a population of 12 to 15 billion. That many people on the planet, and only ONE got away before it blew up? I'll believe a man can fly, but one survivor out of 15 billion is just too hard to swallow. Gee, what are the odds? So we could probably assume that there were other survivors. Not a lot, but enough.
Something else that has never been discussed, at least not to my knowledge, is exactly how far Krypton was from earth, and how long the journey might take. It could have taken hundreds or thousands of years, if not longer, for Superman to reach earth. In that time, the other surviving Kryptonians could have found another habitable planet, banded together and formed a New Krypton.
And that's it. Now you've got super-powered people for Superman to fight, and his history remains in tact.
I'll say again, as it is important and bears repeating: Millions of people all over the world (your potential viewing audience) already know Superman's history. Don't change it. This isn't a small nitpick about Spiderman's web shooters being organic or mechanical. This is established history. If you mess with it, it will affect your box office gross. Guaranteed. -
Because of you I will never be able to sleep again!!
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Is it me, or do the collective staff over at Warner Bros have the numbers "666" inscribed on their heads. I mean, i always knew Rattner was the anti-christ, but now it seems that there are more than one. Yeeesh, just when i was starting to enjoy the fact that so many of the comics i grew up reading are being made into films, here comes AOL Time Warner with their plan to ruin all that is good and provide all of us with pure SHITE. Get it together man, this aint Superman, shit this isnt even fucking Blankman....This has got to be someones idea of a truly evil joke. There is no way in hell that this movie will get made and if it does...This movies failure at the box office is going to make Pluto Nash seem like Titanic's second coming. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY THINKING!?!?!?! Dude, i want to hurl.......and im out
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And if Krypton never blew up, where does the fucking Kryptonite come from?!
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Well done Mori. OK, so this is an early draft and all, I still think you've blown this out of the water by pretty much detailing the entire proposed monstrosity that lies before us. End sequence too? I hope they aren't too annoyed with you at WB. But they asked for it. And Moriarty has responded by using the full spoilage wonderfully. Its the only way. If this script is genuine (and it just can't be, can it? Oh hang on, erm...) then what Mori has hopefully done is nip it in the bud. #######Nice to see something posted which this site was famous for oh so long ago(adverts for Ep II notwithstanding). Pissing off the powers that be. ######Unfortunately what we'll get in Akiva Goldsmith (Goldsman? Whatever; the oscar winning (sigh) fuckwit responsible for Batman and Robin to name but one)on board to polish it. Oh, Mr Peters? I demand Pootchie is included as the Chewie character.
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Okay, first of all, Moriarty, let's make VERY sure you didn't just get pranked. JJ Abrams can't write, as "Armageddon", "Felicity" and "Alias" (sorry, folks, Jenny Garner's cute but the show itself is pretty weak) have so amply proven, but I can't believe that Warners, desperate to retrench, would dare to screw with such a hallowed mythology.
And if they really are...then they're fucked. I'm going to predict right now that if Warners makes this script, it will destroy the company. It will get ripped a new asshole by the critics Web and print alike, none of the fans will show up, it won't come close to breaking even, and that's gonna get everybody fired. AOL and TW will probably split again once that happens. It'd be nice if that were a domino effect and suddenly New Line, Columbia, New Regency, Franchise, Fox, Warner Bros., etc. were all separate studios competeing with each other. Doubt it'll happen, but it'd be nice. -
"LOBO!......, LOBO!!......., BRING BACK SHERIFF LOBO"
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Sep 23, 2002 1:27:52 PM CDT
didnt these assholes learn anything from the debacle that was "B
by stuftseveredhead
i guess not.
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I went from "can't wait till they make another superman movie" till "my god, don't let them make a superman movie" However I'm not sold that what M has is the real thing. The script was suppose to be comical with the idea of casting Brendan Frasier. I saw no human in that script at all. Not that I was hoping for a knee slapping Superman, I just hope for anything but this.
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As a 35 year old computer engineer and more importantly a Superman Fan, I am in shock. I really dont know what to say, if this movie ever got made according to this script IT would insult the 50 legacy and Hero that is Superman. Superman has been my hero for over 30 years and this script is NOT Superman.
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Well, I KNOW you fucks at WB are reading every last one of these. That article last week showed what was going on. You guys are fucking idiots. You killed Batman. Why? Couldn't stick to the source material. Is Spiderman that far of a distant memory? It was so simple. They got a director who really knew what the movie was about. And they listened to him. And were rewarded. Just like the audience. Seriously...what the fuck is going on over there? Listen I know that Abrams kid can write. There sound like some cool moments. But overall...what the fuck is happening? I mean...you guys miss the point. People go to see what is already in the comic book. They want to see it brought to life in a fun fresh way. Not "reFUCKINGimagined". And do not give it to Ratner. I beg you. I BEG you. He will deliver a crappy umimaginative piece of shit. I know it's all about the bottom line to you fucks. And the answer is so easy. Make the best movie. And with comic books, you can't stray far. It's so EASY. Take it seriously. Pay attention to the source material. Give it to smart, artistic directors. The X-men anyone? And Singer didn't even like comics and he did a bang up job. You did it with Harry Potter. You realized you should just stick to the source. What's Peters fucking problem? What did we ever do to get someone with so much contmept for the material to have so much power? Open the curtains up Peters. You're a moron. Your big ego can't see that. But just call Sam Raimi and see what his ideas are. Fuck...just go to a comic book store and ask some people. Stop giving these scripts to the wrong people. Give it to Frank Miller. He will give you everything you need. Hear the calls of the fans. That's what Sony did. SONY! Who can't be bothered to fix your video camera. And they raked it in. Don't do this to us again. You were short dighted in '97 and look where that got you. Look at the big picture. You need the fans. New Line knew. You need us. You hate us. You think we're shit but you need us. Look, here's the thing you fuckers don't get. Mom, Dad, Grandma, they are all comic book fans too. Not like in the strictest sense but they know the difference. You think they don't. But they do. And that's where you lose money. MONEY. You assholes. And don't give it to Ratner. DO NOT! You will lose your jobs over it I promise.
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IF they are intent on making this script they should realise there are ways to tweak it to at least make it only bad, not a total rape of Supermans legacy... (1)-If you want a superpowered Lex, do what the comics would do, and have him temporarily give himself powers...he is supposed to be a human whose intellect manages to provide an even match for Supermans physical prowess. If you want to have him as a rival Kryptonian, why not just use another name, not destroy the Luthor character for any potential sequels... (2)-Krypton HAS to be destroyed. He is not Earths greatest hero if he is only biding his time, and hiding from his own race to one day return and save Krypton? Unless the plan is to destroy Krypton later on... If you are intent on some of this plot, why not keep the baddy, call him Zod, and have him blow up Krypton on purpose just as Kal-El leaves and then follows him to Earth... (3)- The living supes-suit thing...drop it. It adds nothing but an expensive/showy effect to an already confused story. (4)- Nobody picked the Kents to be Clark's parents, it says something about fate and the human spirit for a random encounter to produce the worlds greatest hero... (5) - Finally, one observation, if you change everything that is offensive about this script, you are left with Superman vs several Kryptonians in a huge battle. If you wanna remake Superman II, with more effects, just do it...it would be better than this nonsense...
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This is my first post.What a topic to come in on.Warner Brothers did you see spider-man ,did you see x-men....judging buy the review of this pile of wanna be Scumacher crap i going with NO you didnt did you.Sup is a icon.One of are great fables the story is known to everyone. His ledgend is know around the world .If you were to go anywhere in the world and wear a Superman outfit someone would say "whos the idiot in the Superman outfit." The reason Spidey and the Xmen worked is that they stay to true nature of what these chacters have been for decades.When you do that you can make $117 milion in the first weekend . Superman may have not ever been the coolest superhero to most fans, He has alway been the boy scout ,the ying to Batmans yang. But to me he repersents the ideals of man,of America,of what we all inspire to be .When joel and joe invented him they were telling the sc-fi version of are great grandfathers .The story of us as a people ,lost in in the old world and comming to a new world full of hope and dreams .Superman's story is of the great immergrant .He is a ledgend and should be treated as so. I believe in updating the chacter but this goes to far,John Byrnes update was needed and a risk at the time but it work for the love of the chacters were in the work .His update of clark is still being told today ,Smallville works great for a new generation.For they get to learn how it all started in a hip new way. It also has a great forshadowing that one day they may take over the cape on the big screen .An update on this scale is just plain stupid and uncalled for .This sounds like wanna be star wars /lotr make a billion dollar action Michal bay film.It has a some neat moments with Lois and Clark and Air Force One . It s got merit but with the whole krypton story and the worst part of the script LEX AS AN ALIEN my god that underscores every last shred of writing ever writen about superman .Lex is the man who wants to be superman but,goes the other route of doing it by murder, betryal and mindgames .Enjoying the chess game with his alien foe.Hes not an alien Mulder.....ok ok i can on an on but ,I say all this for love of the chacters and the fans of this icon .I someday want to show my kids what i saw as a child,thank you Ricrd Donner, a man that could fly.Not a man that make a $200.million on its first weekend .But that just what I think, I could be wrong .
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Like other that have responded to the article I would like to ask, what was the Batman vs. Superman script like? Moriarty--can you give us a taste of it so that we can really understand what might have been lost in the decision?
Having had an interest in Batman as a teenager I was intrigued by the possibility of Superman and Batman together. The rumours of who would play the roles at one time looked like the process was going in the right direction. However, I actually thought the actors should have been opposite. Jude Law with his cold blue eyes and demeanor would help in establishing the distance of the Batman character shown in the first films, but maybe could have represented an aspect of the character even in a better fashion. Colin Farell I think could have played the role of the more openly "good" figure of Superman, unlike Law. In any case, that was not how they considered the roles and since it won't be made or played by them, it doesn't really matter.
It also seemed the story (if not doctored by anyone associated with Batman and Robin)offered the possibility of redeeming both characters not only in the sense of franchise but what should be the real concern--making a good film. One of the corporate arguments for not siding with that script was that the whole "VS." concept was seen as an act of desparation for cash (And the whole debate over these films wasn't?). I disagree because we haven't really seen film like that in some time. There are plenty of movies made and coming that present new characters, origin stories, etc. but so far not larger development of characters or the linking of two traditions. We can't really say that there was much development in Batman--with each new actor, new director, and too many villains they filled a slot and meant nothing. They would have actually been going into new territory by using characters we have already known but showing us something both in their interaction and the process of time. True, Batman vs. Superman was a poor title but the idea wasn't. There was a whole comic and cartoon tradition of linking these two icons and it would have been great to have brought that to the screen. Moreover it seemed that the script, from what little has been said, showed signs of wider appeal then just the comic, superheroe movie and kid base.
On the other hand I do see good reasons for letting this plan slide for the time being. Given the failures of the Batman series recently, it could use the distance of some years. Thus the decision to bring back Superman seems reasonable, but not in the exact manner now suggested. If a trilogy did turn out to be good, then the story of Batman and Superman could then be returned to. Better yet if the Superman script were scrapped then the whole incorporation of the Batman angle could be made in one of the follow up movies to the first. Also if the Catwoman movie is any good, it could be a way of easing back into the Batman series. In short, it may be best to give Batman some breathing room and take "baby steps" to making this an interesting character for films again. Who knows...the whole "Batman: The Musical" may add an unexpected twist in all of these plans if it's a success.
The point is that the B-S concept was a good one, with both fan and wider interest, and would have presented the audiences with a story that--unlike corporate excpectations--might have seemed less the Hollywood playing as the decision that has now been made.
I ask again: Please Moriarty, or someone, give us a better perspective on the B vs S story to show whether the decision really was for the "right script".
It has been mentioned that with this film, like others, the post-Sept. 11 has scared WB from making a movie of superheroes that was "dark". I am out of the country and maybe too ignorant of the emotions at this time but are we going about this the wrong way? Yes a movie with a dark story may not make us "feel good" initially but couldn't it just be a little more honest to life? It's a shame if that was a real reason for downing the B vs S script. Its process of suffering and anger could have then helped us accept the "saving of Batman's soul" by Superman. It too would have been hopeful but probably with a more interesting affect then that of battling Kryptonians. Because that hopefulness would have been based on how those characters reflected the trials and choices of the human condition, writ large through symbolic figures.
It seems that the better movie is not being made and if there is any more influence to be given on these matters, then people should continue to speak up. If this film is dead, then fans and primarily people in the industry should make sure the best work is done on Superman. Let this be a good film and not just a bland product attempting to be a blockbuster. -
Sep 23, 2002 2:06:08 PM CDT
Oh what the hell do you guys know? You're not movie industry
by bari umenema
Just leave these important decisions to the real men who get paid to make important adult decisions. They know what they're doing because they weare suits to work and drive fancy cars and expense account their lunches. Whereas you losers eat at McDonalds or Taco Bell or Arbys. I'm sure Mr. Alan Horn knows what he's doing, after all he's the bih CEO who gave a green light to Pluto Nash and that's a much better example of his movie smarts than a bunch of fanboy comic book movie geeks on some stupid website that nobody takes seriously especially at Warner Bros. they have much more important things to do than read this crazy juvenile internet message board!
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The fans aren't responding to Moriarty's opinions, but the details that he has revealed.
"Aren't there enough versions of the classic mythology", you ask? Maybe that is true. If so, don't make another Superman story at all. This isn't a "fresh take on Superman", it's a total disregard for established details of a story that everyone knows and accepts as cannon. And obviously, from all the extreme negative reaction, no one cares for this approach. At all. In the slightest. Why? Because it has nothing to do with the character that we already know.
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Absolutely speechless. Why don't they just cast Richard Pryor as Lex Luthor and be done with it?
In all seriousness, it's too bad DC Comics is under the WB umbrella. It needs to be its own entity like Marvel is so they can pick and choose which studio, which director, which producer should handle their properties.
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... if he were dead. If Micheal Rosenbaum and John Shea were dead, they'd also be rolling. Same with the guy who did the voice of Luthor on Challenge of the Superfriends. And the guy who does Luthor on the newer Justice League series, too. All rolling along.
Because Lex Luthor is human. That's not a plot point open to consideration. It's like making Clark Kent a human who was exposed to a meteor and became Superman. Or Peter Parker was acutally a real spider who was cursed by a gypsy to live as a human and later discovered his true heritage.
Say, Warner Brothers. Here's what I want you to do: Go buy The Essential Spider-Man vol. #1 at your local Barnes & Noble. Expense it, but it's only $12.00. Read it... it's the original work of Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.
Okay? Now get out your corporate cards and pre-order a copy of the Spider-Man movie DVD. I'm even saving you money by telling you to pre-order it because you can put the savings back into the next movie. Now, watch that DVD. While watching, remember that this movie made more money than anything else this year, including anything your studio put out.
Now this is the hard part. After watching the move, remember the book you read by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. Do you see any similarities? Yes, probably you do. And you know why the comic has been published continuosly for over 30 years? Do you know why the movie was so successful?
I'm not telling. You make more money than me. Figure it out yourselves. -
That is, if it WEREN'T a movie dealing with Superman. Seriously, all you gotta do is change the names of the all the characters and the WB could have a seriously cool comic-book style superhero flick. However, if they insist on saying that this is Superman, well then what we've got here is one of the lamest pieces of revisionist shit ever put to paper. Retitle this film and rename all the characters to something original and I'd probably watch it on opening night...keep it as is, however, and there is no way in hell the WB is getting my $8.00. Later.
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Like was said previously, everybody knows the whole Superman story...just start with a prologue retelling it again, then go to Metropolis - with the guy we all know and love, sending money to his mom and occasionally saving the world.
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Sep 23, 2002 2:18:13 PM CDT
By the way...I really want to see SPIRITED AWAY and BELOW
by sod off baldric
I'm not completely familiar with Miyazaki's entire ouvre, but what I have seen is incredible enough to get me majorly excited for SPIRITED AWAY. As for BELOW, I've been wanting to see that ever since AICN posted that awesome trailer for the flick a few months back. That and I love Twohy's PITCH BLACK. That flick was tons o' fun.
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Why don't we take a shit on the Mona Lisa? Because that's about the same thing WB is doing to Superman with this "reinterpretation." Fuck WB.
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I almost never write in talk backs...just happy to remain a lurker reading all the fabulous news.
But this...this is just THE WORST storyline EVER!!! As so many others have said before me in this talk back, the Superman mythos is just something you DON'T mess around with. And it's from a guy who should know better. Afterall, this guy's (WB!) show "Felicity" was popular in part because of some good writing...but largely because of the little hottie actress with the long curly hair. After the first season they allowed the actress to "reinvent" herself and cut her trademark coiffure off...looking not unlike a 12 year-old-boy. Not unpredictably, the show lost a majority of its audience, withered on the vine, rode along on fumes, and was finally cancelled.
It's the same thing here...if JJ Abrams wants to create a superhero character and turn that into a potential new franchise: GREAT! I'm all for it...just DO NOT call it Superman. This tripe is not Superman. At best, it's a possible Elseworlds graphic novel...but it's NO Superman. It's like a Star Trek movie using the Battlestar Galactica as the Enterprise...the audience KNOWS it ain't right. It's the same way that Joel Schumacher fucked up the Batman films...a literal quote for the release of "Batman & Robin": "I think he'd have put that behind him by now" (referring to Batman's darkness...his vengeance on crime...his goddamned reason for existing at all!!!). In that film, Schumacher did no less than make "Campy Batman: The Movie". It's the same here. Audiences are starved for good superhero movies. We waited and waited (and waited some more) for "Spider-man". And we went to see it in DROVES because it gave us what we wanted...the suit, the characters, and the situations that we know and love. For God's sake, Warner Bros., wake up!!! It's true...find someone who loves the source material and will do anything to protect and advance it (like that of Spider-man director Raimi). Not just someone who wrote a script just for the paycheck, not just because there's a property that's collecting dust. But because you have a great screenplay. Because it's heartfelt and organic and real. Because you are true to Siegel and Schuster's character...not just lifting a few plot points and changing ABSOLUTELY everything else.
This is the kind of shit that would make me get my Superman logo tattoo removed. -
Sep 23, 2002 2:22:49 PM CDT
you know what the problem is? Joel Schumacher said it best...
by inkymae
and as much as I loathe him and his movies, I do believe him wheh he said this. "you can plan to make a dark or real movie about superhero chracters all yoiu want, but if you do it for Warner Brothers, expect to be able to have a toy franchise tacked along with it". Bottom line, Alan Horn and his gang think only about the merchandising of a movie. not making a good movie. NO WONDER THERE STOCK IS PLUMMETING.
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Okay, Mori hated the script but I liked his review. Sure, we now know all there is to know about this disaster but at least we won't be able to say we didn't see this coming. I for one have been doubtful about the Superman stuff since day one. Burton has always been one of my favorite directors and I hated it when he didn't direct Superman Lives but when I think of it now, Batman's his superhero franchise and he should stay away from that rumored musical bullshit! Anyway, back to Supes. I know jack shit about that comic book. Nuthin'. I'm watching the first season of Smallville as it airs here in Belgium and I quite like it but it's not earth shattering. I haven't seen the movies but I'm interested in the blue and red superhero. I do know movies though. I've seen more flicks than mere mortal men and there is exactly one thing in this review I like and so does Mori. Superman sitting on a mountain, hearing people crying for help and picking one cry at the time. That's good. That's story. That's heart. The rest is utter crap. If I see that whole planet fucked up shit I'm going to vomit. Lex being a superhero absolutely makes me sick. I'm so shocked I'm not even mad. I don't have the strenght to write hundreds of "fucks" and "kill Peters". I just can't. WB is going to fuck it up, no matter what. There's only way to boycot them. Not see their movies. They've done great work in the past but now... they're slipping. And I for one am sorry, 'cause Warners has been the studio that made me love movies.
Wake up executives!!!! You're on your mountain of money and this is a cry for help you should listen to! -
I think I have my opening scene figured out. If anybody's interested in hearing it, let me know. I'm pretty sure it's better than 90% of the shit in this abomination/rape of the natural world.
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Hi,
It is hard to believe that someone would write that thinking comic fans would like it. Maybe we should realize that Superman could draw in a lot more than just comic fans. Anyway, I agree with everyone...this idea really sucks. How about this one? Have the movie open with scenes of desctruction across Metropolis (sp?). People screaming. The horror. The US army is then seen attacking this beast (the guy who killed Superman...do not know his name). The beast defeates them all. People wonder where Superman is...show concern and include diologue from Lois/Lex. And then, out of the rubble comes Superman, bloodied, beaten, and exhausted. They battle, Superman defeates him and colapses...not dead...just exhausted. As he colapses, with Lois running to him, the camera zooms into his eyes and he remembers flashes of his parents in Krypton, the ship, the planet exploding, the crash in Smallville, his adopted parents finding him, some tender scenes with his parents, and some battles between him, Lex, Parasite, and perhaps even a short flashes with Batman. What awakes him is his romance with Lois. After we awakens and after the mess is cleaned up, the President of the US (and world leaders) give Superman the key to the world. During the ceremony, a space ship comes down. Superman, ready to defend his world, flies up but is stopped when a voice from the ship says, "Kal-El stop...I a friend. More than a friend. family". The traveller is Superman's older brother (about 6 older) He says that several people escaped Krypton before the explosion...including his parents. They are at death's door (old age) and have spent the last 30 years trying to find Superman. Superman's brother wants to take him to New-Kyrpton to see his real parents. Basically, you can have scenes where Lois wonders if Superman would return if he was around his own people. And the whole DNA test (remember, Superman can bleed) to confirm it. Some scenes where Superman helps his brother adapt to these new powers he has on Earth...including a scene where his brother saves some people. Superman decides to go with his brother. Once there, Superman sees a beautiful world, and finally meets his parents...but, on this world, there are no super powers. Ok...to get to the point: Superman's brother is jealous that his parent's chose Kal-El over him to save and eventually imprisions him, with the help of some friends (maybe he is a politian). He tells Superman that it should have been him his parents chose and he is going back to Earth to take the life Superman now has. He says that when the survivors first got here, they lived in ruin...poverty. The world that Superman sees just happened in the last 5-7 years while Superman was living a life where he was powerful, surrounded by parents who unconditionally loved him and a woman whom also loves him. Basically, Superman, with the help of father (who could die while saving him) has to fight and escape this world without his powers. Once back on Earth, perhaps after a couple years or so (enough for Superman's brother to adapt to his new powers and do damage), goes back to find that his brother has become a reckless hero...killing to stop crime and countries who threaten others (something like that). Anyway, they have to fight (and during the fight, the brother destroys both ships with the only record of New Krypton's location) but Superman is unsure he can beat him...here is where Lex comes in. Lex shows Superman a weapon that he developed to kill him. Lex says that his empire has fallen because Superman's brother wanted to do the thing that Superman could not: stop Lex Luthor. He attacked him constantly over the past year for no reason. Crippling his empire. Superman ultimately says no to the weapon. Eventaully, Superman and his brother fight to a stale-mate but his brother uses Lois as a pawn. Superman, enraged, then beats his brother to a pulp but cannot kill him. This hesitation offers Superman's brother a chance to knock Lois off a cliff (or whatever). As Superman goes to save her, his brother hits him from behind, beats him to a pulp, and is about to kill him when Lex uses the weapon on Superman's brother. The brother dies in Superman's arms, saying "...it is unfair". Superman goes over, destroys the weapon, and bitch slaps Lex asking him why...Lex says, "no one will deny me my destiny". At the end, Superman tells Lois of his parents...the hero that his father is...and the fact that he will never see his mother again. What do you think WB? Hire me: dereknewman83@hotmail.com. -
I can't believe something like this was even considered. Holy cow. This has got to be an insane world. And obviously WB has decided that it doesn't want a piece of the veritable pie being offered up by movies such as Spider-Man, and X-men. Wow.
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"Where are the goddamn polar bears?!?!" - Jon Peters
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Holy God in Heaven, I don't think I have the space to discuss how much I completely HATE everything in that script. There's so much taken away from the simple ground rules that make Superman work... Having an entire army of people from Krypton totally takes away what makes Superman unique. Nobody can do what Superman does, because he's SUPERMAN. If you want to give him a little angst, draw from the fact that HIS PLANET EXPLODED AND HE'S THE LAST OF HIS RACE and he's trying desperately to be as "human" as Ma and Pa taught him to be.
Even the little things in this script are just 100% wrong. The costume shouldn't be anything more than a costume. Ma sewed it for him, Clark and Pa came up with the "S" logo after he made his first big rescue in plain clothes and was dubbed a "super man" by the press. Is that so hard? If anything else, if you're going to do an origin story, it's simple enough that you can do it, and move on to your bigger scenes. Want to use a Kryptonian bad guy? Take a note from the comics (you'll have to do it somewhere) and use General Zod. Bring him in as a dictator and then reveal he has powers that match Superman's, like they did recently with the whole "General" plot.
And Superman should not use martial arts. It's not his style. Why would a guy who can take out a building with a slap need to use kung-fu? And where would he learn it? It's not like he could practice with anyone without knocking their head clean off their shoulders. Ever since The Matrix, it seems nobody can come up with any good fight scenes without wire-work and slow motion martial arts. It's all fine and well, but it's not Superman. Here's a clue: You want martial arts? Put it in your Batman flick. Superman has heat vision, freeze breath, x-ray vision, super speed, super strength, invulnerability... and you need KUNG-FU to make the fight scenes interesting? Someone just isn't trying.
Personally, I hope this particular script NEVER gets made into a movie. If Warner Brothers wants a total backlash against their franchise (if this movie is so bad, imagine how bad the NEXT TWO will be, and how horribly they will perform at the box office), then this is the way to go. It seems the WB has no clue why movies like SPIDER-MAN or X-MEN work. I'll give you a hint: It's not the "-" in the titles, so don't even think about calling your movie "SUPER-MAN". It's plain old good storytelling. Sweet and simple. And a good story will give you your special effects, your major battles, and your explosions, but it'll also give you a good story and character development. Guess which one the audience will stay for. Or you can just ask the folks who made SPIDER-MAN. They know. -
I love movies but I'm getting tired of this geek bullshit. You have decades and decades of source material to fall back on if this film doesn't get you your jollies. Iknow that a loyal comic reader wants something resembling what they have grown up on but you need to realize something : that is only becasue you are deeply immersed in a fruitless investmentin a fucking fictional character. This film will be amazing, the Donner version is only a couple decades old, you can rent it on DVD and indulge in all of its' homoerotic patriotism until you are blue in the face. Goodbye AICN, I just cant feel like a victimized little kid everytime a financially minded studio doesnt listen to me.
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This sounds like one long, convlouted, troll post just to piss people off. The Script equivalent of the lyrics by a certain caucasian hip-hop 'artist' - intentionally offensive to everything that has come before because it will generate attention. *** Actually, this sounds a lot like the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" storyline that DC ran almost 20 years ago to re-introduce all of their characters. What I mean by that is the same sense of desperation felt by the powers that be over at Warner Brothers to re-vitalize an existing franchise by completely re-creating it. But in order to accomplish those goals they have to use the single worst ideas imaginable. Granted, some good HAS come out of that highly questionable move by DC all those years ago, but this... I cannot even begin to find the words to describe my feelings about this. *** Krypton didn't blow up why not just keep Bruce Wayne's parents alive as well...? Lex Luthor a Kryptonian and martial arts battles in the air from flying aliens make this sound like a bad DragonBall Z rip-off. Killing off Superman in the beginning, and Jor-el Arguing him back to life are so - bad - its not even funny. Lets be honest - Marvel has had some misses with some of their more popular characters as well (The Fantastic Four, The Punisher, Captain America). Its not easy turning a comic book into a movie, the mediums are different and the subjects are scripted accordingly. And it sure isn't easy to undo the damage done to a franchise by a bad movie (Midichlorians, anyone?). But revitalizing a subject does not automatically mean forsaking all of the character development that has come before it. This script is as bad as the "Batman: Year One" script set in the 1970's, with the Black Alfred and James Gordon indulging in alcohol and committing adultry. As bad as this is though - it probably WILL get made.
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Sep 23, 2002 2:52:53 PM CDT
WB doesn't understand that there is a reason why the origina
by darth phallus
These hollywood idiots think they are soooo damn smart and clever that whatever THEY come up with just has to be better than something that has lasted longer than most of them have been alive. What amazing hubris! What gall! What out and out sheer ego! THey need to take an immediate meeting with Brian Singer and have him explain how a comic book can be brought to life with class, respect, innovativeness, style, and intelligence. 'nuff said
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How about this idea, WB? King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. Only in this one Arthur forges Excalibur himself. The Knights don't go on a quest for the Holy Grail, but instead just cruise around and pick up babes. And Merlin isn't a magician, but just some drunk that Arthur meets in a bar.
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Spirited Away was amazing, it was only my second dose of Miyazaki (after the wonderful Princess Mononoke) and seeing it this weekend at the El Cap was an amazing experience. This is a movie so full of imagination and beauty, it's overwhelming. I want to see more of his films, right now. As for Below, which I saw a screening of last year- it's not very good. The story is lame, the characters uninteresting, and the movie is never all that scary. The resolution of the film is not satisfying at all, and even Darren Arronofsky, who wrote the script, didn't seem pleased with the movie (I talked to him at the screening.) Skip it, though I really enjoyed Twhohy's Pitch Black. Anyway, that's my two cents.
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Don't get me wrong, I've nailed a ton of crappy films on talkback here, but I am not even sure how to express myself on this one. Dear god, this sounds awful. I'm literally without words to describe it.
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Script Sucks. Hollywood almost always fucks up a good story. Just do the Death of Superman from the book and they would be in good shape. The idiots!
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Sep 23, 2002 3:11:32 PM CDT
Hope Drew is ready for the same ridiculous minutae to be applied
by captainfantastic
Good Lord. The script is a work in progress. Moriarty says so at the beginning. Then goes on to rip it. It's a reinvention of story. So what? If you want to stick to the same old story, go read the comic books, or go watch the Donner film. At least give Abrams and co. some props for trying to do something different with the story...if you don't like it, and watch to stick with the old, comfortable canon, then don't go see the movie. This site purports to support movies, esp. genre flicks like this, then all they do is tear them down when they don't conform to some very narrow parameters that those who run this site believe in. This is why this site infuriates me...people who write for this site think they can save the world, have a way too-puffed up opinion about themselves. Arrrrgggggggggghhhhhh.
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That makes it twice so far and I'm telling everyone I know to go see it. I'm doing my part to promote this movie in hopes for it to do well in order for the rest of Miyazaki's movies to be ported over.... are you?
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I knew they'd fuck it up, but to fuck it up THAT badly?
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Say what you want about Smallvile,though it does have some flaws,at least they get the aura of Superman right.
That script is a huge steaming pile of crap. -
Because there's no way one will survive in this flood of geek invective. I know squat about SUPERMAN, and have nothing against the character, but I'm ALREADY sick of hearing about it. They haven't even (presumably) finished the script, and already the fanboys have submerged this site with endless complaints, which only really boil down to (1) Ratner sucks, (2) WB/Jon Peters sucks, (3) screwing with the source material sucks. Great. Do we need 300 posts reinventing these wheels? I wanna talk about SA, dammit!
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Okay, just tell me JJ is pissed cos Alias didn't win an emmy, just don't do this!
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Sep 23, 2002 3:25:11 PM CDT
Geeks w/ no lives+ self-righteousness= unnecessary triple and qu
by darth phallus
'nuff said.
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It's like somebody just fucked me and didn't even kiss me.
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No to this script. No to my presence at the theater. No to the possibility of me renting this abomination, much less purchasing it. No to my 6 year old if he wants to see it...I'll toss Spiderman or one of the Star Wars movies in the DVD player and he'll survive. No to the Happy Meals with the Kung Fu Grip Superman. No. No. No. Is that clear enough for you, WB's? Just...No!
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I want to read it so badly - I nearly busted my nose on my desk I was laughing so hard. I'm sorry, I WANT to see this movie made - absolutely every shot Mori described - I need to see that - this train wreck of Biblical proportions - it could change cinema forever - a new age will be born. Lex Luthor just flies away - man that it the best thing I've ever heard. MST3K could do this movie without saying a word. I haven't been this excited since LotR. Wow, its...... just fucking great.
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I mean it couldn`t make the script any worse.
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Ya know, if you want to recast the notion of Superman for the 21st century, fine. But actually recast it, for god's sake.
There's no revision or respect here, just crap aimed at stealing sweaty $10 bills. No sense of the gravitas or the worth of the character, no sense of the history or the mythos, and just plain no sense.
An attempt to recast the story such that it had weight in a modern world (a la Alan Moore w/ Swamp Thing, or the Batman/Joker diad in "The Killing Joke", or the whole genre in "Watchmen; or a la Frank Miller in DKR as you mention) might have worth, but I don't really think the story is out of step enough with the modern world to even justify fucking with it. In the modern cultural landscape, I believe Superman simply needs a visual update, because the story remains compelling.
And, more to the point, in the post-9/11 world the emotional need for a "Savior Machine" is all the more pressing. I mean, for christ's sake, he's Superman! Get maudlin with it, let him save us all! Truth, justice, the American Way, liberty and justice for all, all that happy crappy! That's the very heart of the character, the soul of his appeal!
But instead, I have a better idea: let's take the notion of the Last Son of Krypton, our last line of defense against all the nasty shit the cosmos can throw at us, and water it down with dipshit Hollywood ploys. Great plan. I love movies with no content, esp. when they center on beloved figures in American history.
I can see it now: "Sometimes, in the course of human events, you just have to kick a little ass -- Thomas Jefferson: The Movie"....
And Superman kung-fu? Jesus.
Why in the hell would Superman require self-defense skills? Because he might get punched? Or shot? Gimme a fucking break.
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He'd freakin' rock, dude! Brendan Fraser as Superman, hell yeah!
Oh, *yawn* -- at least we have 'the Amazing Spider-Man' to look forward to. -
i've been comin' here for almost 4 years now , and have never gone thru the trouble of posting.all the crap i've read,sure some of it bothered me,but this.what the are they thinking?you guys at WB listen you dunderheads"this is not a good idea" Supes+Kung Fu=idiocy.supes dying and comin' back= waste of time.luthor as a kryptonian or any other kind of alien = CRACKSMOKERY!!!!!!!!SERIOUSLY THAT IS THE DUMBEST IDEA I'VE EVER HEARD !!!!!!!!!i'm sure i'm not alone in that one.make a Superman movie we all want that ,do not make this one!by the way is this the version that had everyone gushing about a while back?if it is then they are beyond hope!
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Instead of waisting millions of dollars making the J.J. Abrahams script of Superman, I suggest that WB turn the final episode of "Smallville" (that one in wich Clark leaves the town, Lana gets married, and Lex fight against his father, I think)into a motion picture.
The following year they could make the long awaited adaptation of "Batman Year One", with the direction of Darren Aronofsky and with the script of Frank Miller. -
When this is released, I guess -I fear, also- that the general public will be bored with "yet another comic book film". I mean, won
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Fucking Warner would re-write the Bible if they could.
Fucking Jon Peters, fuck him up his fucking ass... I'm sure he'd like it.
The entire POINT of Superman's very existence is that his HOME PLANET IS DESTROYED. He is the ultimate outsider. Ugh.
You know what... we don't even NEED a whole fucking movie devoted to his orgin... it's THAT WELL KNOWN. Invest ten fast minutes under the opening credits explaining to the little kids and the 5% of the audience who never bothered to find out his story just where Superman came from, then BOOM, jump to the story.
Jesus Fucking Christ, DC comics have spent almost a CENTURY telling one - five different Superman stories a month, and with the exception of a small tweak here and there, they've ALWAYS STAYED WITHIN THE PERIMETERS OF THE ESTABLISHED STORY. No one EVER re-worked and damn well tore down his story just to show they could. These Hollywood assholes. Give Jeph Loeb a shot at writing the script... give Mark Waid a shot, Alan Fucking Moore, Neil Gaiman, Frank Miller, Fuck... even Kevin Smith should get another crack at it. These are experienced comic writers who can write a whiz bang fuck-me-up-the-ass script filled with ALL THE FUCKING ACTION, PATHOS, DRAMA, AND POPCORN PUKING sequences that will keep the audience coming 10 times a week... and they can do it WITHOUT RE-WORKING THE MOTHERFUCKING STORY. Jesus Christ, even Ron Zimmerman could hand in a better script.
Warner Bros... you suck. No, you blow. No, you suck AND blow. You do NOT know what the audience wants... you think you do, you don't.
I hope you go bankrupt. I hope Jon Peters is found in a seedy motel room with a small animal lodged in a very bad place. Too bad. I like AOL.
God Bless Bill Jemas. The man speaks the TRUTH -
Shocking, positively shocking. Excuse me while I barf up my lunch AND my breakfast AND a kidney.
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Hi Kids. Just had to get one more voice here in the TalkBacks with the vain hope of persuading WB to abandon this JJ Abrams travesty before they put the final nail in the coffin of yet another beloved franchise. The sad irony is that even though WB got DC's characters on the screen in cool pictures faster than Marvel, they managed to kill them off just as quickly. I knew the Bat was doomed as soon as I saw an interview with Schumacher in which he said, "Alright, so his parents are dead, move on, get over it." That right there shows how badly things can get screwed in comic-book adaptations when placed in the hands of stereo-typical "Hollywood." The entire reason Bruce Wayne is Batman is because he will NEVER be over it. That's the key to the character of Batman, and anyone who thinks they need to move the emotional arc of the character away from that just proves they're not fit to handle the mythology. When you're dealing with Batman, Superman, Spider Man, or any other beloved comic book icon that's been around for more than 50 years, that's exactly what you've got: mythology. These things have been around that long because they work. Once you muck with what makes them work, they die. Witness the Schumacher slaying of the Batman franchise. Look at Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. The reason this stuff happens is simple: Hollywood feels that the character has to have a changing arc in each on-screen adventure. What they don't understand is that in some key ways, these heroes don't have big arcs in every story. Unless you're doing the origin story, the heroes are catalyst heroes who have a great impact on the world around them, and may learn something about themselves in the process, but by and large do not change in pivotal ways. The problem with the last few Bat/Superman movies was that they forgot this -- Batman had to "get over" his parent's murder and decide he wanted to dress up like a bat because he liked it; Superman had to stick his nose of steel into the political world of Man because he wanted to feel more a part of mankind (he's an ALIEN, that's a key part of his charater). This JJ Abrams script that Moriarty reviewed sounds more like an Elseworlds story than a Superman script. Too many key elements of the mythology are cast needlessly aside. The deviations don't enhance the characters or mythology, they destroy it. I'm surprised that Abrams wasn't forced to sit down and watch every single "Smallville" episode before starting that draft. Smallville may not be everyone's favorite show but they've done some fantastic character work with Clark and Lex. That's the way the Superman movie needs to be done, stay true to the myths, stay true to the characters. I'm not saying re-make the 1978 movie -- updating is fine, as long as it fits. John Byrne did an update in the comics a while back that updated the legend, but didn't throw away the mythology. Make the character more hip and current, but keep the character and the myth. Why the hell does Clark have a red-liquid suit that only fits him when he's an adult? There's a lot more that's wrong with the script reviewed, but I'm assuming most of the other rants have already gone after it. JJ, go back and watch the 1978 film, watch every "Smallville" that you can get your hands on, and read a few of the comics. Get your hands on Byrne's update. There's a reason that "Batman: Year One" is the Bat's best hope at resurrection: it rebuilds the myth based on it's origins rather than screwing with the character for the sake of satisfying some creative exec's sense of emotional arc. I think I'm speaking in line with most everyone else here when I say, "Please, for the love of God and the sake of the fans, burn that Abrams piece of sh*t right now because if you make it you'll only spend tons of money to piss people off and that is not how you build a franchise." -- SPYder, out.
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...it WILL be the Death of Superman! Superman movies, at least! Good sweet Lord God in Heaven, please destroy this blight upon our humble planet! (Anyone wondering what good old Silent Bob is thinking about this one?)
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Have we forgotten that these are the same guys who brought us the BATMAN YEAR ONE script review...
A nasty stink hangs in the air! -
Hey, I just read the script review above. To all the people in charge of making movies: Don't make this one. Thanks.
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Ok. I live in England, and as an English citizen look on Superman as an INTERNATIONAL icon. I know like, every American supes fan will hate me for saying it, but thats how i see him. After reading the script review I got two words for ya....fuck it! This has got to be one of the stupidest scripts ever. Good god, do these Warner Bros. fatcats know anything?
WB fatcat 1: "Whats popular with kids at the moment, better yet, what kind of money will we rake in?"
WB fatcat 2: "Something called Superman. Something about an alien running about in a suit"
WB fatcat 1: "Thought that was 3rd Rock?"
WB fatcat 2: "no, thats about an all-american family from Paris"
WB fatcat 1: "shit, i dont care, just get some guy on the phone and tell him to write a script about...oh, i dont know, a guy who runs about, tell him to stay completely away from any kind of source material so he'll have a completely new take on the subject, unrelated in anyway to the original source, heh heh, we'll show those fans for having any kind of faith in the character whatsoever, yeah, we'll show them...."
WB fatcat 2: "Didn't we do that with Batman and Robin?"
WB fatcat 1: "Oh yeaaaahh...."
The fight scenes sound so cool, and the scene with supes on the mountains not knowing where to go sounds fuckin amazing and the part where supes sacrifices himself to save Lois is true, cause he's THAT dumb.
"One bitch in the world, one bitch with many faces" Do these fucking idiots not realise that if they had simply gone back and read, yes thats right, READ some comics that if Superman had grown up in seclusion from the rest of the world, would have turned out as a villain? I have grown up with superman, i really have, the first toy i was ever given as a baby was a superman bear and that is why i love the big, dumb guy in the tights. Because he is known the world over, by kids from like, 12 months. There are four characters in the world which everybody knows, which are Bugs Bunny, Hulk Hogan, Mickey Mouse and Superman. These guys are fixtures of international pop culture and will probably never die down just because people love them so much (apart from Mickey, i hate that guy). Lex as an alien...a MOTHERFUCKING alien!?!?!? WTF? "I'm probably not alone in thinking this is the worst idea since greedo shooting first..." But just think...what if this IS the best supes script out there... what if WB have hired a bunch of guys and other scripts involved Superman coming to Earth as a monkey from the planet Bananus and is evolved by a scientist called Lex Luthor using state of the art cloning techniques (or wotever, who gives a shit) into some kind of...superman, who can leap tall buildings with a single bound, is more powerful than a locomotive but saves people in the hope he might get to groom them for lice and lick them clean? And Lex Luthor is trying to kill him cuz he took Lex's 'weekend suit'. What if Akiva Goldsman has been hired and his property is titled 'Superman in y-fronts' and involves supes flying around and hitting on guys? Jimmy Olsen's gay? Uh,ok I'll let that one slide cuz it was like, soooo obvious anyway. Don't think so? Whats with calling Perry White 'chief' all the time? Ty-Zor? "ha ha! Bow in terror man of steel, for i am ty-zor, straight from spawn's toyline"
"That capsule wasn't YOURS, superman...it was Batman's! No wait, it was...Plot device Man's!! Fuck.. no wait, it was...ok it was yours. Fuck it I'm bored, I'm going home to watch Harry Potter. Don't forget Kids that Harry Potter and the Sorcerors stone (yeah while im at it whats with the whole sorcerers stone? Its the Philosopher's stone!!!) is on Special Edition DVD now! And the new ones out at Christmas!"
and Superman says: "Fuck you baldy, this whole Lex is an alien thing is fucking ridiculous. Yeah thats right, I'm breaking script and if you WB fuckers make another movie which makes me look like an asshole, I'll break ya dicks off and shove em up yer asses. Oh sure, send Nuclear man after me, i tossed his ass into the sun, so that proves that no matter what shit you guys throw at the wall, the only piece sticking is the piece where Superman kicks somebody's ass, and it'll be yours next if you fuckers make me out to be a sissy in tights...I'm not Guy Gardner for fucks sake!"
WB fatcat 1: "shit, he's the man"
In closing, if you shit-for-brains motherfuckers at WB actually make this shit, you will have just crapped on about 70 years of history and will have about 4 billion angry supes fans ready to break down your doors and rip your nipples off. So please give the script to someone who knows about Superman, and hasn't watched 'Lois and Clark', isn't an X-files fan and thinks that 'alien invasions are cool' and give us fans some fucking credit. We wont swallow this and neither did JJ Abrams. What you think he actually did to get this? Sorry, no way in hell. If he didnt care enough to give us some FUCKING respect, then he certainly didnt care enough to keep your floor spotless. Just like Akiva Goldsman and Joel Schumacher, Comic Enemies No.1 (ties).
Please, wipe your ass with this script, as it is what the entire world would do, when compared to Richard Donner's Superman.
A Very Angry Fan -
On Superman dying.. It made me think of the Great Will of the Macrocosm. "Excel.. Excel... you must not die in the first episode."
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This is crap.
Plain and simple.
This script version of superman is crap. A few changes to the mythos is fine. So spider-man has bio web shooters instead of mech web shooters. So what? But Lex a kryptonian? Krypton is still there? More kryptonians out the wazoo? Lex as a CIA agent? No thanks. I'll save my 7 dollars for something more worthwhile. -
My sister watches Days of our Lives(i watched it one damn time, ok?) and the dude that plays Austin would be the perfect Kal-El. If you've seen him, you know what i'm talking about...get rid of the stubble and bulk him up a tad, and he'd be the spitting image of the 1996 WB Bruce Timm/Paul Dini Supes animated series version.
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That the WB already has a Superhero franchise coming out with a sequel next spring that involves hundreds of Superhumans flying around and doing Kung-Fu. Seriously most of the fights mentioned seem pretty derivative of stuff we're going to see in Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions. Even the fucking hippy-dippy bullshit "you can't die because the prophecy says blah, blah blah" is ripped from The Matrix. Why don't they just cast Hugo Weaving as "Agent Luthor" while they're at it. The Wachowski's have really put a wammy on the industry. Between this and Byran Singer's "Matrix with crappy action sequences" take on X-MEN(WHICH BTW IS GONNA GET CREAMED BY MATRIX RELOADED NEXT SUMMER. SWEET SWEET IRONY.)it's a wonder they don't just get Carrie Anne Moss to play Lois Lane and Joey Pants to play Perry White.
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Sep 23, 2002 4:54:19 PM CDT
This will be the greatest motion picture of all time - a stunnin
by weedymcsmokey
Man, do I ever want to see it. BTW, this is coming from the studio that made Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone, instead of Philosopher's stone because, really, when it comes down to it- they think you're stupid. They really, really do. I can hardly wait to hear casting - Jackie Chan has to be in here somewhere, I'm thinking Jor-El or Lex, or me - I've never wanted to be in a movie more.
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I cannot believe how shit this is. There is not enough shit in the entire world that can compare with this shit. If Superman contracted a fatal dose of kryptonite squits his super-shit would equal this shit. THIS IS SHIT. message to warner: i am going to kill you if you make this shit.
ps. i think this script is shit -
Sep 23, 2002 5:06:47 PM CDT
Does anyone remember "Greatest American Hero"? It sounds like a
by draven1977
I mean seriously, the costume pops out of a can? And he doesn't fly until he first puts it on. Somebody call Maxwell! Ralph's in trouble!
It sounds like a cross between Greatest American Hero, Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, and Kung-Pow
Look at whats happened to meee eee, I cant believe it mysellllf
Believe it or not, its just meeee... -
Sep 23, 2002 5:10:54 PM CDT
What they need is to let someone on the fringe direct one of the
by cruel shoes
Just like Blade got Marvel's asses back in gear. Someone should direct Checkmate, I always loved that book.
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Sep 23, 2002 5:13:52 PM CDT
I'll see it opening day if the trailer makes clever use of t
by trav mcgee
Then cut it short with the sound of a needle-scratch across an LP, with Jimmy Olsen doing a mug to the camera. Then when Lois does a finger-snap and smirking neck-move, kick into "Mambo No. 5" over the rest of the quick-cut montage. Practically writes itself.
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Peters still needs to die. But JJ needs to die much moreso, he needs his cold, wet tongue cut off and stuck up his anal cavity. Even my mother commented on this script while I was telling my brother this morning. "Oh, God! Even I know that that's not right! ...And I haven't even seen the movies or the books!"
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... if it wasn't so tragic. They'll never top Superman II anyway. Terence Stamp was fan-fuckin-tastic. Very cool.
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Ok,Ok, I know that Warners owns DC, but still...doesn't the Company that lives off of Superman have some kind of a say in how he is treated on film?? I know that when the brilliant Superman Animated Series was on the WB Network in the 90's, DC often stepped in and made sure that the Producers didn't get too far off track from established mythology. For example, the made sure that if a Supergirl was going to be introduced, she would be from a neighboring planet, NOT from Krypton. Kara was his cousin in the figurative sense, not literal.WHY haven't they done this in regards to this P.O.S. movie script?? As much of a fan boy as I am, I'm not that anal that I don't mind a few changes; I don't mind that Kal-El's ship lands on the Kent farm as opposed to nearby; I don't mind that Clark meets Lois in College..that works for me. There are some things here that actually sound like they might work. But this whole Krypton didn't blow up stuff is such utter bullshit. I mean, you can argue that one can fuck with the origins of lesser known characters like the X-Men and (to a certain extent) Spidey, but EVERYONE, including Mothers and Grandmothers, KNOWS that Krypton blew up, that Lex is Human, etc. Why fuck with what is American Mythology? I have NO problem with updating a Legend, the way John Byrne did in the 80's. But when even HE tried to go too far, DC stopped him. Did you all know that originally, In Byrnes' MAN OF STEEL series, that a pregnant Lara was supposed to be on the rocket, and that she dies giving birth to Kal-El on Earth? DC wisely said "No way" There are just some facets of the story that you just don't mess with. Why DC can't get the balls to stand up to the Parent company is beyond me. I wonder if they even know (well..they do now!)If this script is re-written properly, it could still be saved I guess. For starters, make Ty-Zor (ugh) and his cohorts, NOT Kryptonian; simply make them from a neighboring planet with a long standing fued with Krypton. 2. Have them DESTROY Krypton, Death Star style, thereby preserving the story. 3. Make Lex Luthor an egotistical Human, NOT AN ALIEN. that has to be up there with New Coke as one of the worst idead ever. In this age of corrupt corporate exes, the "Evil CEO" Lex would be a perfect Villain for an Enron Age. But as usual, WB is waaaay too short sighted for that. These are the same people who have NO Selina Kyle in the CATWOMAN script; these are the same people that had a Draft of WONDER WOMAN in which Wonder Woman was NOT Diana of Paradise Island, but Donna Troy: Secret Agent.(???) And let's not get started on Batman. How can their TV Division get it so right, and their movie division get it so wrong? *sigh* Sudenly, Lois & Clark doesn't seem so bad, eh? Warner Brothers...I know you are gonna read these TalkBacks. Don't make a such a huge mistake. There is venom here for a reason. I actually rather see a Wonder Twins movie than this piece of shit.
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I've never read any of the comic books, but I'm a big fan of the Warner Bros. cartoon series. Has anyone else seen the 4 or 5 episodes that involved Apokolips? (Big bad guy from a fiery planet, intent on beating the crap out of superman). I thought that was a great story arc. How about that for the movies. Of course not the same storyline... otherwise people would stay home and watch the cartoon. But its got some interesting elements to it 1) a character that can legitimately kick superman's ass 2) an opportunity for superman to go bad and lay the smack down on earth 3) some geniuinely interesting characters like the son(s) of Apokolips
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Sony made a very expensive Godzilla movie where Godzilla didn't show up. Instead, we got the The Iguanadog from 20,000 Fathoms and it killed the Godzilla franchise for Sony.
So, don't pull a Godilla on Superman. Keep the great beats but don't break the mythology.
You have been warned. You may not have a clue, but you have the money to hire one. -
....paying good money for a movie of which i already knew that it was worse than crap? Batman & Robin...I will never make that mistake again. ever!
...and please, can someone...someone WISE finally put Mr. Peters on a watch list? only if he is truly involved in this mess, of course!
& thank you once more Mr. Donner....for doing it right!
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Like a lot of people here, I've never posted, but I need to add myself to the growing pile of furious people. I don't know what to say about this script. The rage I'm feeling is so extreme. It seems like it has to be a dream; no one would create something this horrible in the real world. This can't be true--someone must be playing a cruel prank. If it is true, there's only one word for it: Evil. This script is pure evil.
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To see all the TalkBackers united together? I thought I'd never see the day. :)
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We get to see Green in #19, when it finally comes out. I believe six years from now. NITPICK ALERT! It was a blue lantern Dowling was removing from the alien's chest.
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Sep 23, 2002 5:44:13 PM CDT
I can't believe that Peter Jackson, now working under the Ne
by johnnytremaine
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I have two words: David Fincher. I just watched panic room and while it may not be his best it was still miles above most directors out there.I think in order to keep superman relevant to todays generation we need to make it a bit darker. That is why I was so excited when I heard Kevin Smith was writing a treatment all those years ago. I say let someone who has a passion for comics like silent bob write the screen play and then let a director with balls and a dark edge like fincher or aronsky directy it.
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Sep 23, 2002 5:51:39 PM CDT
And while we're at it, let's get Vin Diesel to play the
by donniedarko604
All i have to say is that i think that my jaw just dropped more times in 30min, then in my entire life combined. This is a horrible horrible piece of crap movie! what are you WB people thinking?? Let's just get Vin Diesel to play Superman while we're at it! And while we're at it, let's get LL COOL J to play CIA agent Lex Luther!! Brittany Spears as Lois Lane!! and that "Just Jack" guy as Jimmy Olson (he's gay?! wtf?!!!)!! Let's do this movie right people. Kevin Smith story. Shyamalan script. And let's have him or new guy Richard Kelly direct the thing. Come on people. Keep it together.
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Sep 23, 2002 5:58:03 PM CDT
If krypton didn't blow up, than where did the the kryptonite
by grendal24
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Sep 23, 2002 5:58:20 PM CDT
The Smallville stuff is good, but the rest, get rid of it and Lo
by steal_dragon
The main one is the Krypton stuff. Make it one big segment and don't change the demise of the planet, make it blow up. Also I would take the premise of the demise from the cartoon that Jor-el is a scientist and he is pleading to everyone that the earthquakes on Krypton will blow up the planet and the only safe haven is the Phantom Zone and congress all say you are full of crap because Braniac says that the earthquakes the planet is having is just movements in the planet's crust but in reality its Braniac destroying the planet because he is this big evil computer with a brain that Jor-el created for some greater good and like in "2001 A Space Odyssey" he gives it too much power and Jor-el goes back home and you see this big unfinished ship which was supposed to save the people of Krypton or just his family but the major earthquake is coming so he places his son in the prototype and it blasts off also Brainic leaves the planet as well and the scene ends with Jor-el holding Lara in his arms saying, "God help us all" and Krypton explodes. Kal-el's ship gets there alright but Brainiac's ship gets caught in the blast and moves off course and gets there when Clark is grown up. Also change Lex into the billionaire he is in comic and also take another storyline from the cartoon that when Brainiac's ship landed it landed in front of Lex's car or something and gave him Kryptonium poisoning which causes him to lose his hair and Brainiac knows the cure but Lex would have to make him a body because he wants to take over earth for some reason or another and Superman and Braniac fight. Also don't make Jimmy gay, all you are going to get is letters mostly bad from Anti-gay's and comic book fans. Don't be stupid, it just going to mess up the movie and also get rid of Superman knowing Kung-fu, unnecessary along with returning to Krypton, Luthor getting powers, and Superman dying also put a little humor in it just don't over do it. Also JOHN MALKOVICH AS LEX LUTHER and am I the only one that wants Brendan Fraser as Superman and Jennifer Aniston as Lois. Courtney Cox is to funny looking now.
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And that corner graphic is in really bad taste.
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Not only WB, but many of you who are making suggestions as to how to do it better. You just don't get it. Many of the suggestions posted here are great, but as long as WB thinks it can make the toys, add some songs to the soundtrack by N'Sync and Usher, etc... they are going to make a shitty movie. WB doesn't want to tell a good story, or even make money -- they want to make A WHOLE SHITLOAD of money. In the process they will fuck up the project to the point that it will ultimately fall short of their expectations. But suggesting how they might do otherwise is to assume that WB give a shit. And obviously they don't. Hollywood is so dominated by corporate suits that even "indie" houses like Mirimax are whores. Just enjoy the occasional gem, like Lord of the Rings, or Spider-Man, and stop expecting Hollywood to tell good stories. It's only an exception, or even accident, when they do (and it's not for lack of good writers out there). If people actually voted with their dollar more maybe things would change. I, for one, only go to the theater three or four times a year because most films are so bad, or don't need to be seen on the big screen.
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Sep 23, 2002 6:10:08 PM CDT
Good word, there are a lot of posts! If you actually make it far
by 1001 jedi nights
Okay, I share Moriarity's opinion. That script sucked. I can't believe how much it sucked. I am shocked at how much it sucked. But you know that already. Okay, let me make my point. I am a decent story teller, and like almost all of you here, I can do a better script than this. Honestly, 90% of the people in this talkback can do a better script than this! --> Someone suggested that a few people escape from the planet. I kinda like this idea. Perhaps they were on some science expidition, and returned to find their homeworld destroyed. Oblivious to supermans escaping, they go elsewhere to make a home for themselves. That idea works, because it is completely realistic and it doesn't stray too far from the actual story that superman is (which is not this) Of the people that got lucky, at least one has to be bad, right? Also, I think it would be wise to use the Smallville cast and storyline. That show has been successful, and the clark they use is plenty old enough for the part. So, the lex isn't completely evil, just misunderstood (like in Smallville) until something drastically changes him. I don't think they should use that "kryptonite morphed some normal person into a feak" formula, because that gets old. They need to give that formula up in even the tv show, and instead bring in some true villains. (like one or two kryptonian survivors, or better yet, genious terrorists. Like lex for example.) --> There are, believe it or not, some things I DO like in this script. Well, a few. I like the idea of him going north and hearing the cries of millions worldwide, I can live with (although am not entirely fond of) that liquid suit idea, and, well, I guess the going north thing is about it. I don't think pa kent should die, lex DEFINATELY should NOT be another superman (for all that is holy) and krypton should be destroyed. Oh, and I plan to walk into that theater with the most sticky and disgusting snack that the concession stand has to offer, prepared to throw it at the screen if and when superman dies, after which I will promptly exit the premesis. --> btw, did anyone here actually read or post on the other movies up there? I already forgot what they are cuz I'm so bugged by this superman thing. If it is a joke, which I hope it is, then it is a really good one. My compliments, Moriarity.
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... the biggest Bullshit I read in years.
No way that I'm gonna spend money and more important time on this piece of shit ! -
Sep 23, 2002 6:19:38 PM CDT
I Want Any WB People To Listen Very Carefully 'Cause I Reges
by supermanalpha
Ok, I know I'm at the bottom of the pile here, but I should be a nice break for you. I'm not going to yell obscenities at you and I'm going to try and keep this dry of emotion.
Let's go through this from the beginning.
1) Starting with a big fight: fine. That could even be classified as good. You're pulling people in who came to SUPERMAN only 'cause their kids wanted to see it. But the fighting is wrong. Why? A guy like Clark had no apparent cause to learn Judo or whatever in Smallville and when you're that strong, you don't think you need to learn HOW to fight. It should be clumsy. Closer to boxing than Bruce Lee. Super-speed, yeah. They're going to be going at it as hard and fast as possible, and I could see Ty-Zor knowing formal fighting being the son of a warrior king type, but Clark doesn't know how to fight. (This looks like a good time to make a point: At no point in the script should Clark be called Superman. Superman is Clark, but NOT vice-versa. You get into that and he stops being a person. He becomes an inaccessible god.)
2) Krypton as "Naboo": ok. I can deal with it. This is a society that's been around for a lot longer than ours, so it makes sense that they'd be living in a seeming Eden. BUT--you do have to watch the Episode I appearance when it comes to the robot army. What's the point of being on Krypton if we don't see the Kryptonians? Jor-El being president of Krypton? Neahhh...that bugs me. Clark doesn't have to be a prince to be a hero, in fact, better if he isn't.
3) The Prophecy: again, I can live with it. We've got prophecies here on Earth too that some people live by (the apocalypse, anyone?). At least never have it stated. A cute little poem'll get in the way.
4) Krypton not exploding: ...hmm... I guess it's ok. I wish there was a better explanation for why Clark has to get shot off, though. Civil war is...how 'bout a big meteor? Hits Krypton, starts an ice age... Kata-Zor takes over in the resulting chaos...
5) The costume and the canister: this is the first BIG mistake. Actually, I take that back; having it STAND UP AND BILLOW is the fist big mistake. The next is making it stick to him. Getting out and running around in it is fine, but, really, does it need to be like every kid with the towel pinned around his neck to make us connect to it?
6) Clark and Lois meeting: great. This is what "reimagining" should be. Especially how she impacts Clark's direction in life. I can see the brilliant look on Clark's face as he gets more and more pissed off as he becomes the center of attention and just as he's about to super-swing, in steps Lois Lane again to put the guy down with a little force as possible.
7) Lex Luthor, Super-Spy: this is what I think will get me called a traitor, but I support this. It makes Luthor's reason for hating Superman logical and easy to develop in one movie. And the way Lois sets him up is on target once again.
8) Gay Jimmy: bad. I'm completely with Moriarty on this part. Making characters gay just for kicks is not good. I've known gay guys; I have no problem with them, but their bosses don't routinely say, "Hey, how you and that other fag doin'? Thinkin' 'bout adopin' a kid? Good luck." Make Jimmy a geek, make him a kid, make him an adventure-seeking reporter-wanna-be. The difference is that these are all incarnations that have existed before and never became the dominant characteristic over the red hair and freckles. Personally, I'd like to see Jimmy as an immature twentysomething with a perverted sense of humor.
9) Superman's first appearance: saving a plane is how everybody does it, but that's fine. You don't have to be original with Superman so much as you have to be visionary. It would be nice to see Clark do some more stuff before he goes into hiding, but I won't fight TOO hard for that. Killing Jonathan Kent on the other hand...shame. If he dies, he dies, but don't make it a heart attack from pride for his son.
Interjection: Predius? I'm gonna guess this guy is the man on Krypton who helps powerless Clark save the world.
10) Martha and the revelation: this I've got some mixed feelings on. They could all be cleared up in the actual script. My problem is that Martha doesn't tell Clark all this when she first has to tell Clark he's an alien. It's good there's some symbolic meaning to the S. I even like how it's broken down. But between Jor-El's visit being mysteriously forgettable and Martha deciding Clark has to save the world (from what exactly, mind you) I think this could be more harm than good. And while I know I was against the supernatural properties of the costume before, I'm even more against something like glinting metal in the S that draws away from the costume as a whole, so I'll let it slide if the metal blends with the costume on contact to become part of it.
Interjection 2: Moriarty points out that McG may have had a lot to do with this script and if that's true, then maybe Rater could straighten this out.
11) Luthor on the side of the Kryptonians: makes sense at first, but looking ahead why? Why wouldn't he come out and reveal his secret now? Get his hands dirty? Who's he got to protect himself from? He's working with the Kryptonians and who wouldn't bet on them? Plus, why'd he pull out the kryptonite when he's just as vulnerable?
12) Killing Superman: I see the importance. It's the ultimate heroic act. BUT, BUT, BUT, BUT! You draw it out too long. Bare minimum, no funeral. Who's got time for a funeral when superpowered aliens are swarming the planet? And Jor-El talking him out of being dead. Wouldn't it be more powerful--to Clark as well as us--if it was Jonathan waiting in heaven? It's the father he knows, the father he connects with. He's never even SEEN Jor-El before. And the whole telling him he can't be dead is too Matrix. It's exactly what happened between Trinity and Neo except that it takes less time in that movie.
13) The final surprise: the costume may have been the first mistake you made, but this is the biggest. Why? Why's he got to be an alien? At least why a Kryptonian? It could have some bigger meaning in the trilogy and if it does (please tell me you've at least got outlines from Abrahms on the next two movies) go for it, but from where I'm sitting, if Krypton is act two and Superman is going to triumph totally (as he should, don't drag it out over two films) don't you need Luthor back on Earth, building his power during two and ready to strike in three? Think about it: first film, Superman has powers, bad guys have powers. Second film, Bad guys have technology, Superman has no powers and is on a strange world. Third film, Superman is back on Earth with powers and has to deal with Lex, who, for the sake of argument, knows who Clark is and is going after him personally (and Clark ends up telling Lois who he is in the middle of the movie setting up the happy ending of the whole trilogy).
To wrap up, I know nobody actually reads anybody's post other than their own, so it should be clear that I did all this out of love for the character and to feel like I did what I could being a seventeen-year-old kid about 2500 miles from Hollywood.
Daniel B. (SupermanAlpha) -
I am not trying to write a rant, or a letter of hate, maybe a letter or a post of clariety for those responsible for not caring enough about a simple comic created in 1938 that has survived over six decades.
Where to start... Warner Bros. is letting an oppurtinuty of a life time get away from them because they refuse to have the forsight of knowing how BIG Sups really is. Basically look at it this way, THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN!! Why all of a sudden have comic related films become so huge? Well maybe becasue they all ready have a following, larger than life characters, a universe all ready laid out to dwell in, and marketability.
In 1978 WB gained the rights to Superman...and it was huge. Later through out the years there have been Superman shows on TV, some sucked but others went on and on: Lois and Clark ran from 1993 to 1997 appearing on ABC accquiring 88 episodes. The point I am trying to make is THE PUBLIC KNOWS SUPERMAN. From our childhood to the young today watching the Justice League, or Superman Adventures, or playing the Supes videogames, we know. Hell the symbol of superman has to be one of the most recongnizable symbols in the World!!!!!
So to tie it all together how does WB in all its glory have an inkling of a chance to RE-MAKE Superman in the one media there is no coming back from. At least in the comics you can blame a mind-controling-super-villan-wanna-be, and BAM your ok. In movies you live or die. Batman is the prime example. Burton made Batman great not because the was dark, but because Burton new Batman, he was a fan. The same goes for the hit Marvel movies to date, they are fans, they love and know the characters, not what the characters can generate in sales. Here's an idea, if remaking sups is what they want, do it the same way x-men did, use the first film as a platform, for the next two. That way you have a less likely chance to screw up. Or how about asking insight from those who eat, sleep, and live superman. Hell I am pretty sure Alex Ross could help you. He has a gripe on Sups.
The script is utterly horrible. It could have potential if and only if Peter seperated himself from all other films. Supes dosent need a matrix feel to it, Matrix was a hit BECAUSE it was Matrix. Supes doesn't need a Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon feel bacause once again its been done. Peter is for getting that supes all ready has a hell of a lot of powers to play with. Pick up a comic for Gods sake and see all the invintive ways his powers have been used. Quite trying to invent Superman!! As a population there are all ready given facts that we know to be true regarding superman. First his home world blew up making him the sole survivor. Second by pure chance he lands in a feild to be found by the Kents. Third he uses his power for good because of the Kents up bringing. Fourth and most importantly Lex Luthor is his nemisis, because he is HUMAN. Having Sups homeworld blow up makes him even more edearing to us because the decideds to protect his Adopoted home world Earth. The Kents raising him by chance shows where the makeup of superman comes from. Anyone that has read a Elseworld know what I am talking about. Third powers are tricky... if he was a bad person so would his powers be, he is a good person because of the Earthly ideals of his adopted planet. Fourth...I will not explain the fouth becuse it should not even have to be EXPLAINED..
The film will sell if you make it true, merchindise will go through the roofs if the film is made where we all want to be superman, not a lame superman. Think simple...what is it about superman that makes kids still today tie a blanket around there necks and "fly" around the house. What is it about the "S" on a tie shirt or underoos that makes people puff there chest out.
I am a lover of our modern mythological creation we call Superman. Take time and think about what you are truley appoching, WB killed one franchies with in three weeks of release (batman for the slow ones). What franchise do you want to lose now? -
tell me you're joking...seriously.
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Sep 23, 2002 6:30:02 PM CDT
Why would anyone think JJ Abrams could write a good movie?
by packy mccracken
Regarding Henry?
Gone Fishin'?
Forever Young?
Armageddon?
Does anything more need to be said? -
What a Talkback! I consider it an honor to be involved...I remember reading an interview with Richard Donner in which he was talking about working with Brando on the '79 film. Marlon B. was being his usual usual picky, weirdo self and sayin', "you know, Richard, I think we the people on Krypton *shouldn't* be people...why can't we make them look like, I dunno, BAGELS? They could say, 'we'll send our son to this alien planet and make him in their own image?" Donner countered the argument: "Marlon, you ever tell your kids a bedtime story? You tell 'em a bedtime story more than once? If you get one of the details wrong, they'll call you on it...well, since 1939 they've been telling the story with *people* living on Krypton, and you don't change something like that." Brando shut up. That said, this script sounds dreadful...couldn't there be a better use for $300,000,000 than this?
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i can deal with the krypton still bein around because i honestly think that you have a good idea for a take off of the superman character. i like the prophecy thing i really do but LEX LUTHOR SUCKS. HE'S NOT FROM KRYPTON. if you make this happen i will NEVER buy anything superman related again... just so that my money wont go into your next film... please use some common sense
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What a piece of garbage that scrip is. Is WB interested in character development any more? People went to see Spider-Man 2 or 3 times because of the filmakers sticking to the basic mythology of the characters and creating characters we could believe in, and relate to.
I'm not going to see a Brett Ratner directed video game for 10 bucks. How did he get to be the "hot director" he is now...did the guy ever write anything original himself....I saw a quote somewhere that he films what "good shit" is in the screenplay, and he said thia was "good shit".. Shit, brother!
Meanwhile, a seemingly character driven movie like the Fountain gets hung out to dry. You're teeling me bacuse Brad Pitt's wife sucked all his money out of the bank that he needed to dump 'Fountain" to do Troy....what a jackass. And the supposed "Script Problems".. Ellen Burstyn, an Oscar winner, and Cate Blanchett haven't spoken about any supposed problems....
this is all about the corporate assholes who want to make money and don't give a shit about stories anymore....how they can throw a bunch of $ at Ecks vs Sever (what kind of title is that?) and not even try to prceed with the fountain...they could not find a sutable lead?
Andy Garcia...Matt Damon....Willem Dafoe...Ralph Finnes....could have filled those shoes.
If there's any way you can talk to Aranofsky to get the real scoop on Fountain, that would be of interest.
I'll go back to WB movies when they stop screwing the public and stop treating us like uneducated morons.
WB, don't make that piece of shit Superman.
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i'm fairly certain if i put a crayon in my ass (red, green, doesn't matter) and squatted, and then moved my ass back and forth over a peice of paper, a better script would pour forth. although, in a way, i think it would be really funny to see this movie. i mean, you'd have to get completely hammered, but imagine it: danny devito as superman and elizabeth hurley as lex luthor. throw in a cute, ill-behaved puppy, a love interest from the wrong side of the tracks, a talking mailbox, and a guy from the nineteeth century trapped in our time trying to woo meg ryan AND danny "superman" devito simultaneously. now THAT'S a movie.
call me warner brothers! i seem to have an intellectual property! -
Sep 23, 2002 7:08:26 PM CDT
I think the real problem is Donner got it right the first time a
by inkymae
If anyone knows the way the original two superman films were planned out it had villains from krypton, lex luthor working with them all the way to the white house, clark's father dying, big battles in the sky between supes and the bad guys and Supes saving air force one. In other words Abrams and McG have watched the original first two movies and said "wow, that's really cool. how can we do this again and NOT make it look like we are ripping off Donner" Answer: screw it up. Seriously, is it just me or are the "cool" aspects from this script actually things we saw in the original two movies? The problem is Warner Bros has a character that has already been done right on screen. In fact almost too good. There really isnt much you can do to improve upon it. All these talkbackers keep mentioning how Spiderman was done right and even Sam Raimi has called Donner's Superman the quintessential superhero movie.
And the real proof is that Ratner has said "I really want to see Superman fly with the effects we have today" it has nothing to do with having an angle on the story that is unique or special just because they up the fx factor. As much as I loathed the idea of Nic Cage and Tim Burton doing Superman, they at least had an interesting angle on the project. Their motivation was based on having something new to tell not because it would be neat to use 2002 fx in a Superman movie -
Sep 23, 2002 7:11:36 PM CDT
Superman For All Seasons adapted by Paul Dini & the Coen Brother
by superninja
Team them up with a good FX house, and let the games begin. Enough of this "updating" Superman stuff. Does Gotham need updating? No, because it's not on a map. Neither does Metropolis - if they don't film a big city and try to make it be modern New York. Metropolis should be its own place frozen in time just like Gotham that blends a sense of the old with the new, creating an entirely new and timeless place where a superhero character can function without having to be "updated". What I want to see out of a Superman movie is a heartfelt film with lots of great action sequences and a smart plot. Quite a few of the episodes of the Animated Series managed to accomplish this. The toys will sell if the movie as not an embarassment to the character.
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I have never felt compelled to post a talk back before. After reading about the JJ Abrams Superman script I felt obligated to register and do whatever I could to get the message across to WB that we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore! This script sounds like the complete opposite of what I want to see in a comic book film. I go to see the magic that I fell in love with in the comic book come alive on the screen. I understand that they want to get more than just comic book fans in the theaters and I understand that fresh stories could make for some good surprises. That is all understood but you'd think that it would at least take place in a universe that even remotely resembles the one that is in the comic books and so many have come to love. The origin of Superman has held up for over 60 years. This new one doesn't seem like it would last for an opening weekend. I suppose I could bear the costume in a can and maybe the martial arts it I must. What I cannot bear is Lex Luthor as a Kryptonian and Krypton not exploding. The way Superman comes back from the dead in this script almost seems like a joke for comedy relief. "Oh, I'm not supposed to be dead? Okay, sorry about that I must have been confused. I'll just shimmy on down to where my body is then." Also, I've seen enough "chosen one" storylines lately (The Matrix, Star Wars prequels) and I don't think I'll be needing any more.
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Hello Superman fans. As you all know, I wrote this Superman script. I have been interested in all of your comments on my Superman script, and have been monitoring the talkback section of this website with intrigue and fascination. It must be said, however, that despite all of your apprehension, this script has, in me, been written by one of the greatest writers in the business and since you are all a bunch of geeky homosexual twats you can shove your shitty oppinions right up your dirty gay arses. If you don't want to go see the movie, then stay the fuck at home, and stop whinging about it. And as for Moriarty's Review... Well, the version of the script which you have (and I have no idea how you got your dirty theiving hands on it) is not the final version. It has undergone considerable revision since the version you have apparently read... Although I can't stand your guys' bitchin, i have modified the script to appease some of your fears. I have re-imagined Superman as an Iraqi midget, of homosexual orientation, and Lois Lane as "Lewis Lane", a muscular indian balti chef. Perry White has also been renamed Perry Black, and he also covers the whole "token black guy" angle. And Lex Luthor is a woman, with mega powers, including those webs of spiderman, and the costume of batman. Man, my movie is gonna rock. Thanks for your support.
JJ x x x
P.s. I am currently in negotiations to DIRECT the sequel, which is under the working title of Superman and Pokemon vs Robocop, Predator, Batman, Spiderman, and Supergran. Imagine the possibilities... A blend of Roger Rabbit and Fist of Fury style action. I know you will unite in my support for my good bosses at WB who know that money makes a good movie, not story.
Yours Lovingly, JJ Abrahms. -
Not a huge fan of Superman, but a retarded spider monkey would understand changing parts of the Superman myth would be catastrophic. Save your time WB, and take your $100M+ and throw it into a paper shredder, or give it to Joel Schumacher to make Batman 5!
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Here's a new concept for ya, how about I give you a spoon so you can eat my ass? Hey listen, I was really looking forward to Batman vs. Superman, alright? And to know that this flick is gonna be posponed for the piece of shit I just read about, I'm ready to go hang myself! As an avid Batman fan, I do hold a mindset of the importance of an accurate portrayal of Superman. I don't need, and neither do the fans, for you to mess up what we all grew up with. I mean, why? You will make the majority of your money from my age group and older (19+) because of what we grew up with. You will get the additional money from the younger generations because they'll listen to us rave about how great it is. Read a comic book for once and work on impressing us first. Got that? IMPRESS THE GENERATIONS OF THE 80'S and lower. That's your new mission. Off with you now.
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Never have I been so enraged at the stupidity of a studio. What the hell is wrong with these people? Why did Spiderman, Harry Potter, and Lord of the Rings all make over 300 million dollars? Because they all stayed within an arm's length of teh original source material. There was nothing that was significatly changed. Why would they try to rewrite Superman, it doesn't need to be done. I thought everyone said the Abram's script was fantastic, they stopped Batman vs Superman dead in its tracks to put this thing in hyper-development, and i can just ask myself why. Throw the entire thing out the window and start from scratch. Read the original comics, I warn you studio gusy now, DO NOT FUCK THIS UP, becasue if you do, you may not have anouther chance to redeem yourself, if you produce this movie as is, it will completely destroy the ever-so-fragile foundation you have already seiously weakened. go back to the source material. One more time, Go Back To The Source Material.
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Sep 23, 2002 7:58:43 PM CDT
When this movie does get made, and it will, because some dumbass
by d-prime
Don't forget the cod piece and nipples. What would the new cast iron Superman suit be without them.
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Sep 23, 2002 8:02:50 PM CDT
Go to COMING ATTRACTIONS for the latest on all this! <www.coron
by village idiot
Go now!
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Just for the record, i would go to any, to EVERY, other movie opening that weekend, and the weekends after it, just to do my part to make sure that if this script is made into a movie, that it bombs. I read the comic books. I saw the first four movies. I watch smallville. And this sucks. Word is that smallville might be cancelled to "clear the playingfield" for this movie. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR F@&#ing mind?!?!?!? Destroy a sucess to create a failure. Smart. Very smart.
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According to Corona(www.corona.bc.ca) the future of the series Smallville seems to be in jeopardy.
Apparently the suits at WB think that the masses would prefer this abomination over the decent version of Superman mythos that Smallville offers...
As an avid DC fan for a LOOONG time I only have three words for WB..
Make mine Marvel!
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Is there any way to get the attention of the mainstream media over this script?
We nned to show to the masses what these suits have in mind for an American Icon.
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Superman dies... a spirit convinces him to come back because of a prophecy....
Oh, yea, Last Son of Krypton, a novel that came out just after the Superman movie. It isn't an exact fit... in the book, it is Albert Einstein who convince him to come back and fight the bad guy... but it is still close. Check out http://superman.ws/thebook/lsok_contents.php -- chapters 24 and 24 are the only connection.
By the by, thanks for the heads up on the story. That's 7.50 I can save. -
Sep 23, 2002 8:28:09 PM CDT
BWAHAHAH..."And Luthor flies"...That is some funny ass ish... ok
by wash
You had me going for a while, thinking that was for real. Get outta here.
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I can't stop thinking about this. First off, let me try to appeal to you in terms you understand. The bottom line. Look, I just produced my own film and I know it is all about money. Franchises are about the idea that you have a bottomless well. But see you guys wanna kill the golden goose (to mix some metaphors). Listen, Planet of the Apes was supposed to be this huge franchise kick start. Now it's dead. Yeah, you can get sales with ad blitzing and name recognition. But they got in there and now, yeah they made some money but NO ONE wants to see a sequel. Godzilla anyone? Lucas did the same thing. The thrill was gone after Phantom Menace. People saw the lack of care in the product. And so they were ambivalent about Clones. Look, its all about good will. If you destroy that, NO franchise. No money, no cash cow WB can go to every few years like Batman. Fucked that one up royally didn't ya? Was it worth it? Get Peters, Abrams, and especially Ratner out of there. I heard from a close source its a done deal with him. Ditch him. TAKE THE LOSS. He will kill your cash cow. You will make it up later when you give the film to a real director. This has all the earmarks of all those crappy '70's comic adaptations when people who had NO business being given the material were in charge. And as a kid you would scratch your head like...how did they fuck it up? AS A KID you knew that. And you guys wanna do it again. I know what you think. We're just lone geeks in our mom's basements. You are so wrong. We are just the tip of the iceberg. Have another fucking meeting. And start from scratch. Get fucking Christopher Gans or David Fincher. Christ, get Jerry Seinfeld. At least he gives a shit.
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Heh... As nice as that would be, I doubt the mainstream media will touch it. There's no way in hell we'll hear anything from CNN, that's for damn sure. As much as I hate it, the only ones who might touch this would be Fox News... *sigh* I'm so depressed.
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Hi Moriarty
Just read your fascinating take on the Superman script. However, I took strong exception to something you wrote. Yip, you really pissed me off.
And I quote.
"Did they just arbitrarily decide to suggest that Jimmy's gay? Can I ask what that adds to anything? Is it going to be a major subplot? If not, then did you really have to do it? Is this what you see as edgy, or as a hip way to update a character? I have no problem with seeing gay characters show up in mainstream films, but when it's an arbitrary decision like this, one has to wonder what the point is."
If you really think about it, really hard, you'll realise how bigoted your comments are. I know they're not meant to be, but they are. The implication of what you're saying is that gay characters only make sense when they are there to make a point about their sexuality. Could one not argue that making a character "straight" is also an "arbitrary decision"? Damn right. It should be arbitrary in both cases.
In the same way that Superman happens to be straight without him angsting over the fact, then surely so could Jimmy Olsen also happen to be gay without this being "a major subplot"? It's only when characters that happen to be gay appear on screen without their gayness being an issue, will we be able to say that some progress has been made.
Perhaps if you were to re-read your comments from your piece and replace the word "gay" with "black" then you might just get a hint of what you're really saying.
Being gay is not a plot point or something I do to be edgy or hip. It's not a fashion statement. And there's no "point" to it. It's just the way I am.
Think about it. Please.
Over and out
Luiz -
Sep 23, 2002 8:41:31 PM CDT
Karate in Superman? See Superman 2 and Reeve's gay ass kick
by tarl_cabot
That kick was so awful!Can we please see something that doesn't ripp off the Matrix? And Lex Luthor is a Kryptonian? He's supposed to be a arch villian and not a soldier villian, right? (see Unbreakable) That's a silly call but I like the ambition of this script compared to the piss poor efforts in Superman 3-4. It has some decent material but it needs a major overhaul. But at least they are trying to make the odds more interesting because let's face it, Superman is too powerful to be a compelling hero. He has no problems.Spiderman used to battle villians with the flu the night before a midterm...etc. Anyway, you can knock the crap outta this but Superman 3-4 were awful; and that was with a good choice for Superman. Nic cage? Jude Law? WTF?
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Sep 23, 2002 8:43:48 PM CDT
After reading the whole story at CA, i have but one question...
by xthecrovvx
Does anybody have a sniper rifle and scope I can borrow? I'll give em back....promise. Seriously, people, this story just keeps getting sadder and sadder.....just knowing that A: M Night could've gotten a crack at this thing, and wasnt allowed, despite already making a rather successful superhero flick on his own power, and two other films that both broke over the $200 million mark....B: Joel Silver(who, despite making his own share of bad decisions in the past, DOES have ties with Richard Donner) could've gotten this thing to something resembling solidity, but didnt, because that fuckwit Alan Horn wanted Antichrist Peters to do this.....and C:, the newest jaw dropper in a day chock full of 'em, that Smallville, the one thing in current existence that, despite its flaws, is consistent in doing the Man of Steel justice, might get the axe to make way for this...this...thi...this unholy abomination to God....shit....ladies and gentlemen, this TB is on the verge of becoming one of the longest TBs in the history of this site....to some a premature mourning place, to some a call to arms...but i make a suggestion to Mori/Harry/whoevers in charge of this thing....change the header....it should read "abandon all hope, ye who enter here..." Revolution is still my name...and yeah, im wondering what Kevin Smith's thinking about all this too...
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....Please tell me that this is some sort of horrible fallacy, and those are not actual plot twists...
Otherwise, chalk up a spot next to Battlefield Earth, kids, 'cuz this script is pure movie kryptonite. -
I agree that super-types doing super-cool things (like large-scale stunts and mid-air super-fast kung-fu) is always fun to watch (espescially when done well with great s/fx). I don't think these whistles and bells don't make up for violating classic (and well-loved) material, though.
I suggest putting a new title to this JJ Abrahms script, renaming the characters and giving it a good rewrite. Release it as "Atomic Avenger vs. His Crazy Alien Cousins" or "Rage for the Throne of Xequinto" or something. An original epic trilogy replete with great effects, inter-planetary strife and a Christ complex could be a great franchise. Hey, it worked for George Lucas. -
My dear Professor, I spent time digging out an ancient password to Talk Back. No rant, just a quiet word of support for everything you said regarding the JJ Abrams script. Perhaps this might work as an 'Elseworlds' series, but those not learning from history are condemned to repeat it - and lose one huge pile of money in the process.
It does, however, effectively answer a question. "Do aliens live among us?"
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Sep 23, 2002 9:09:49 PM CDT
being gay is not a plot point, but it is may be a stereotype in
by noteboom
Luiz, I agree with you. It should not matter one way or the other what Jimmy's sexual orientation is. It's not a big deal in the history of Superman that Jimmy is straight. It wouldn't change things drastically to make him gay. If the creators want to make a point that the modern work place contains gays, straights, bi's, and they can all work together and respect each other, cool. BUT...I don't think that is what is happening here. I think what they want is not for Jimmy to BE gay, but to ACT gay. To be a gay stereotype and to get some laughs at his expense. I think they want a Jimmy that will prance and mince and serve as the butt of the jokes of his more "macho" office mates (and really, isn't that already Clark's job?). I hope I'm wrong and Jimmy would be shown as simply a reporter who happens to be gay, you know, no big whup, to make the point that gays and lesbians are normal and present in all walks of life. But come on, is that the impression that you get from the rest of the details in this review? That they have noble intentions with regard to these characters? I mean, please.
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Sep 23, 2002 9:11:02 PM CDT
One day?- -Good DC Movies And Good Marvel Movies Can Co-Exsist.
by deep blue sky
- -One Day...- -One Day...- -See While DC Had Their Hits With Superman 1 & 2, Batman 1 & 2, Marvel Had Nothing But Shitty Movies.- -Now It's Marvel's Turn- -And They're Turning Up Nothing But Winners!- -So Soon, Give It Another 10-20 Years, And DC And Marvel Will Both Be Shelling Out Good Quality Superhero Movies.- -I Have Faith.
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If I wanted to sit through another "chosen one" storyline I'd pop in my Kung Pow Chosen Edition DVD. So, Superman is the chosen one who will fulfill a prophecy and save Krypton? Krypton shouldn't even be in one piece!!!!
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Mommy, my eyes are burning!!! Make it stop!! Mommy, help me! PLEASE!!! My God. Oh, no. Oh my God, no. Why? Who? Where? Who the fuck in the name of Curt Swan thought of this bullshit script? This isn't Superman! Superman doesn't know kung fu! Luthor isn't a Kryptonian! My God! This is a joke. It MUST be a joke. Please tell me it's a joke.
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This is becoming a de facto petition against this MISERABLE FUCKING SCRIPT, so anyone in any position of power who may in fact be listening..... THIS ISNT HOW YOU BECOME GREAT! THIS IS CRAP! HANG YOUR BALLS OUT THERE, HIRE SOMEONE UNEXPECTED WHO LOVES SUPERMAN.... (like me, because lord knows an unknown, unrepresented screenwriter who occaisonally contributes coax articles will get a huge summer tentpost movie...yeah....) Seriously, hire someone with PASSION...like me, only maybe a known quantity!
Dmann OUT! -
stupid
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Huge climatic action sequences full of jet planes and explosions and destruction GOOD
Everything else NOT SO GOOD -
Of having Jimmy be a CGI animated flying gay pickle. I mean, that would make up for all the other stupid shit they are throwing in here right? Right? I can see the lines from Jimmy now "Holy smokes Superman, we're in a pickle now!" His power could be to invade the cavities of the super baddies and while they are dealing with the discomfort from the Jimmy pickle, then Superman can apprehend them. Pretty super bad ass and cool if you ask me!
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What a super-horrific script. Go ahead and make this film, but change all teh names. This isn't superman, this is some other super-hero. It's not superman. Don't give us this crap.
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Batman - a franchise killed by a colorful adaptation of the Dark Knight. It included a Broadway musical, a circus, ice skating, sky boarding,
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In "Jon Peters' Superman II", Supes rejects the costume-in-a-can which was trying to take him over! The alien costume bonds with a disgruntled gay Jimmy Olsen at the Daily Planet who hates Clark Kent for not hooking up with him and becomes Anti-Superman and...COSTUME IN A FUCKING CAN??? Been snickering about that all damn day. Keep the bile flowing, geeks. Warners, Peters & Abrams deserve all the invective you can dump on them. Glad to hear that this has brought out lots of first-time posters, and old hangers-back. Let's hope the power of the talkback can scuttle this shite! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
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what the fuck?
oy vay -
Sep 23, 2002 9:50:13 PM CDT
By the way, have y'all mailed your letters of protest to Dic
by johnny ahab
I want to see the scene from "Miracle on 34th Street" replayed on CNN, when the mail guys unload bag after bag of protest mail at 75 Rockefeller Plaza. That address again for you all who missed it way up above in my first post: Richard Parsons, Time Warner Inc., 75 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10019. I'm serious, folks. Giant bags o' mail to the head guy at Warners will get results!
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Thank-you.
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...that has to be the worst fucking thing I have ever read...words can't begin to describe...THIS CANNOT HAPPEN! This intense gayness cannot be allowed! Has Hollywood learned nothing from X-Men, Spiderman and Blade? COMIC BOOK MOVIES SHOULD BE MADE FOR COMIC BOOK FANS! They should bear a resemblance, as much as possible, to comic book canon! And to mess with the established history of Superman, the granddaddy of 'em all...this is supreme hubris. Trust me, if this script sees the light of day (and I'm praying it won't) it will ruin the careers of all involved, and there WILL BE NO SECOND OR THIRD INSTALLMENT! I...I literally can't go on...my mind is reeling...
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Sep 23, 2002 10:10:42 PM CDT
Warner Brothers crappy Superman scripts make Baby Jesus cry
by jayhawker1
Man, did that ever give me diarhea.
I've been coming to this site for years but just joined Talk Back 5 minutes ago, cause I didn't want to be on of "those assholes," fuck it. I can't believe this. I have nothing new to offer here except to lend my voice in the hope that this movie and nothing resembling it, ever goes in front of a camera.
You would think that there would be a couple of brains at Warner Bithes that would be able to see that after the success of Spider-man, a comic book movie that remains faithful to the character can be immensely successful. Thank God that Richard Donner did it right the first time ass least those fuckholes can never take that from us. -
Sylvester Stalone stars as Spiderman, after aquiring a lisp and some massive brain damage, Spiderman goes crazy killing everyone in sight, claiming to be judge, jury, and executoiner with his trusty side-kick/gay lover, Jar-Jar binks. Hell, why not at this point?
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Ok. I love Superman. I have the graphic novels. I have the movies. I wanna see all there is of Superman. I have seen some of the original black and white Superman stuff - pure amateurish. I even watch Lois and Clark (New Adventures of Superman) so I can get another fix (even if it isn't half as good as it should have been) of my superhero.
The Death of Superman story in either novel (by Roger Stern) or graphic novel (by shitloads of great artists, pencillers, writers et al) is one of the best stories written this side of LoTR, and deserves a huge, big-budgeted film. If WB don't make it - good. I'll do it one day. And properly.
But why this pile of shite script? They may own the rights to make a new film, but not ths rights to fuck up the original concept of Superman vs Luthor.
Pure crap.
The fights sound good, but this sounds like a George Lucas effort at a script!
Get Donner in to have a go - with the script writer.
Forget this whole "Krypton's still there" thing. Forget the whole "Luthor's Kryptonian" thing.
If you're gonna do a job, do it properly.
PLEASE?!?!?!? -
Sep 23, 2002 10:24:17 PM CDT
Yeah... umm... 'cuze me while I go sell my AOLTimeWarner sto
by spacephil
Christ. As long as they're lugging idiots like Peters and the brains who greenlighted this around, don't matter if they got LOTR -- they're dead as can be.
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From a friend of mine.-------------------------------------------------------------------------DC Comics Staff,
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Sep 23, 2002 10:45:41 PM CDT
Im a huge Superman fan and all I can think to say is "Dear God,
by masterchief2k3
I understand some Changes, but this is to much, it loses the source of the mythos. superman being a refuge from a dead planet is part of what makes it great. Cut that out your missing the point.
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Note to DC: Ya might just wanna ditch this crapfest and go make that new Batman spinoff: BATMITE - THE GUANO HAS HIT THE FAN!!!
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Lets face it, Superman can survive any stupid crappy treatment-- he will outlast Jon Peters and everybody working at Warner's and there's tons of good S material out there going back to the 40's. This is why Smallville doesn't bug me (in fact I rather like it). On the other hand, I won't pay money to see this piece of shit (or watch it for free). The cartoon show was brilliant (and I'm even enjoying Justice League, although they have to make S utterly incompetant in order to make Hawkgirl not feel useless) and there will be other good adaptations in the future.
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Am I misremembering or is this the plot to Highlander 2?
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I'm sure this will get lost in the all the other weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, but here goes?
Why? I admit that I am more of a Batman fan, and it seems to me personally that his rouges gallery is more twisted and compelling than what has been done for Superman (and I am a $200 a month comic fan boy who reads plenty of both Bats and Supes). But isn't the point of adapting Superman to try and make his villains interesting and thrilling to a 21st century audience? Brainiac, Toymaster, Bizarro all seem unworthy or Supes, but I'm not a highly paid screenwriter (ok that might be an oxymoron but I'm kinda bitter right now). That said, Supes does have one villain worthy of his time and trouble, Lex! Lex and Supes compliment each other perfectly, and here's why - Lex envisions himself as Superman, not in the up up and away sense, but the Nietzschean, Shavian sense. Lex sees himself as man's potential, someone who has reached the pinnacle by sheer force of will. His most convincing argument against Supes is that if humanity relys on him to solve their problems, they will never fullfill themselves. Now admittedly Lex's view of mankinds triumph has always seemed to me to be a pretty cutthroat, ruthless, as filmed by Leni Reifenstahl (sic?) kind of triumph, but he does have a point. This is why Lex must be human, to be the devil's advocate. Although he is plotting his own victory, he must be there to instill doubt.
So back to my first question, Why? Why does WB lack any respect for what could be there goldmine? Even if they are blind to the merits of the source material, can't they see the success Marvel films has had with sticking to the essentials of their characters? There is alot of potential for development, but there are some basics to Superman's story - Krypton explodes, Superman is the adopted son of Earth who loves and understands his family and planet more than we earthlings seem to, Lois is a brainy compettitive hot dish, Lex is the villain, Perry is irascible but noble (and didn't Jimmy always seeem a little fey to you?) oh, and did I mention, KRYPTON EXPLODES. Superman's story is Earth's story, he is there to remind us of what we have, to be seen shooting around the world, staving off disasters, stopping on top of world famous landmarks, and finally reminding us of what is precious by being more human and compassionate and brave than we are. He should be a symbol of what mankind can be (a more positive role model than robber baron lex). No one gives a shit about Krypton or a trilogy (god where did that whole "it's a trilogy" horseshit come from Tolkein wrote the lord of the rings as one book , it was only published in three segments, Narnia, OZ, all of these great epics were more than three story. The screenwriter has a character who has endured for almost 70 years, Superman's story is far larger than any trilogy can do justice to. Announcing something as a trilogy is just laziness, and cliched thinking, every thing is a trilogy these days. Promis us a decalogue and you earn my respect, why not shoot to be the superhero genre's Kieslowski? Oh right that would take some imagination on your part, right Mr. Abramas? ) A final why, Why hasn't Jon Peters finally succumbed to the myriad of venereal diseases he no doubt caught while whoring around on Barbra during the 70's? The man is a cancer on Hollywood.
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This project is awful. The thought of this project is awful. A good version of DC stuff will never be made because Warner Bros OWNS DC! So get over it. Avi Arad can shop his Marvel movies around to all of the studios, but DC is WB territory. And until WB goes under and everyone is given their pink slip and the DC properties are bought by fans of DC, the DC properties will NEVER be made into decent movies. Especially Superman. A fucking talking gay dog that flies and saves the world is Jon Peters' idea of the perfect Superman movie. He really needs to get his head out of his ass. Do us all a favor WB! Sell DC to a company that knows how to make money by appealing to the fans! Because you obviously have no corporate clue as to how to do it. Jesus, you guys suck.
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or i'd probably spontaneously combust or something. shit is retarded. just plain wrong. a bunch of faggotron bastards warner bros are.
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This maggot boiling abortion sucks the rancid cock grease from the aids encrusted asshole of an eighty year old prison bitch. Ask me how I really feel. (+4 pimping self to be quoted in Keven Smith's next film.)
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This has got to be a joke. Are they kidding?? There is no way they can will get away with making this movie. And if they DO go with this storyline, I suggest we pick up our torches, pitchforks, etc. and raid their hides.
...seriously though...
If they truly want to get this movie done, stick with the basics. And if they want to ad some creative flavoring?....DON'T. Changing anything will just prove to show that they've been wasting their time trying to revive the fanchise.
It seems as if those behind this at WB feel that they need heated battle scenes to catch the audiences attention.
The beginning of the 1st movie, obviously should show Krypton exploding. What also would have been cool is to see the costumes Jor-El and his wife were wearing in Man of Steel #1. Possibly show a hint to the future appearing of the Eradicator. Near Jor-el is, overing off the ground, like the probe droid from Empire Strikes Back, his robot assistants (forgot their names).
Kinda like Noah's warning of the deluge to wipe out Earth, Jor-El is seen in a council-like setting, warning them of the coming doom of the planet, and Jor-el being laughed at as a doom-sayer.
In another scene, Jor-el is talking to his wife about where they are sending Kal-El (Clark Kent/Superman). Showing a video image on a large screen of men working in a wheat field, the wife pulls back in shock, noticing that these men dare bear their nacked chests to the polluted atmosphere, but Jor-el tells her of the advantages that their yellow sun would have on the baby, compared to Krypton's red sun.
On earth, the craft crashes. The Kents find the baby, suggesting that it might be a test craft sent by the Russians. Clark is originally Martha's maiden name, which is where he gets it. We see Clark grow up. He is run over by a bull and doesn't get a scratch. He learns that he can see through walls when his mom is looking for her purse, and he sees it in another room through a wall. He finds out he can fly when he is playing with his dog and, accidentily, he walks off a cliff, hovering. At school, he meets Lana, is class president, a star athelete, and also makes a certain school mate extremely jealous. We also meet Pete Ross.
I've forgotten what, but between living in Smallville and Metropolis, Clark did some traveling and had major stuff happening at this point of his life.
Finally moving to Metropolis, he joins the Daily Planet and we meet a host of characters: Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olson, Cat Grant, Ron Troupe, Professor Hamilton, Bibbo Bibbowski, Franklin Stern, Lex Luthor, etc. If there EVER will be a death of Superman storyline, then cameo Superman saving John Henry's life.
Perhaps at the end of the movie Lex is in a plane crash, so by the next movie we see his next long, red-haired, australian manifestation.
The storyline? Hell if I know.
But whatever they end up with, stick to the basics. Not only do the filmmakers need to entertain the general audience who've never picked up a comic book in their life, but also the avid fans as well.
For an extra note: this is what I'm working on:
http://www.floodfilm.com
THIS script, on the other hand, is going great, by the way...
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Just some more of that AOL Time Warner magic at work
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Superman is being 'Updated'. Well, JJ, while you are at it, here are some other updates you can introduce
1. Make Superman gay (more with the times)
2. Make him a cross dressing transexual
3. Make him a photographer at the daily bugle
4. Make Superman Blind
5. Introduce Pa Kent abuse angle
6. Make him a scizo
7. Change his costume to black leather with black over coat, sunglasses and guns
8. The new superman should be blonde
And yeah, one last thing. Change the name from Superman to SuperDud, you moron!!!!
Regards -
I can deal with Luthor being a government Ph.D. I can deal with him being a Kryptonian. I can deal with Krypton surviving. I can deal with Superman being too dumb to realize that a building made of lead is exactly where he wants to be when the kryptonite starts flying.
But WTF is a "CIA Special Agent?" Someone's getting their TLAs confused. -
For my first ever post, what a great topic. I've been lurking for a few years now, constantly checking on the latest movie news. This might be the funniest thing I have read yet. I remember reading an article on Kevin Smith about the work he did with Jon Peters. It said that Peters had a hard on for Smith to work a gigantic spider into the Superman Lives script. Smith couldn't figure out why he wanted it. Later on, Smith went to the set of Wild Wild West and discovered that Peters finally got his big gigantic spider. This is all I could think of while reading the review. WB definitely owes a lot to the folkswho were involved in the Matrix. Because without that movie, WB wouldn't have much to bank on. But here's my point. This script is so bad that some peon at the studio with a sense for creativity probably leaked this script hoping that the world would find out how horrible it is and help to quash it before it got going. There is no way this script would ever be mad into a movie. But I still think that WB can still screw it up. Remember WB - The Matrix trilogy = AOL even worse off then it already is. later
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Warner Brothers - you're FUCKING RETARDED if you greenlight this craphole script. Lex is Human. Krypton explodes. We don't want to see Matrix-style kung fu. Jimmy is NOT gay. Don't you fucking get it yet?
No one wants to see this bullshit. Write a script that means something - that little feeling I got when I watched the original Superman called PRIDE. CALLED LOVE. CALLED PATRIOTISM. CALLED INSPIRING. We don't want to buy your stupid marketing ploy anymore. All you read or wear or see on TV is a product for your fatass dirty dollar, quoth Tool.
We WANT SUBSTANCE that doesn't stray from the roots. We want BELIEVEABILITY. WE WANT THE SUPERMAN WE'VE KNOWN AND LOVED FOR FIFTY YEARS, NOT THIS HORSE SHIT!
IF YOU DON'T GET THE DRIFT HERE, GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE, RE-WRITE THE SHIT OUT OF THIS OR DUMP IT ALTOGETHER, AND GIVE US WHAT THE FUCK WE DESERVE!
WE'RE YOUR MONEY! WE'RE YOUR REDEMPTION. SO HELP ME GOD IF YOU MAKE THIS MOVIE WE WILL UNITE AND DOOM YOUR $300-MILLION-SCHLEP-FEST FOR MARVEL'S FLICKS INSTEAD.
AND WE WON'T EVEN BUY AN ACTION FIGURE, YOU BRAINLESS ASSES.
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Sep 23, 2002 11:54:51 PM CDT
All that Corona Coming Attraction summary proves is that there&#
by superninja
And there's not going to be a movie until it all gets sorted out. There are too many ideas running around and too many players. Nothing's going to happen until this whole thing gets sorted out. This is pretty entertaining in of itself. Think about where this started, and the current chaotic state. It's like the Fall of the Roman Empire. I hope they all realise their parent company is watching, and probably taking notes. Maybe Chabon should be working on writing a book about the "making" of the next Superman movie? I could see another Pulitzer in his future...
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Did anybody read this and actually think for a second that these guys have some balls? I cherish Superman just as much as anyone and I put up with every god forsaken minute of Smallville just to prove it, and I think that show stretches the Superman character a lot, but this is ridiculous. But besides the fact that this is just not a Superman movie, it totally kicks ass. JJ Abrams has some serious cajones to write something like this, and even if it never gets made, it gave me some good laughs and if it wasn't superman and a couple of changes were made, this could be the origins for a whole new really good superhero mythology. Its just not Superman.
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To answer a previous poster's question, If Krypton doesn't explode...kryptonite's origin must be the superpoo found in baby Clark's diapers. At least that ties the whole story together for me anyway...
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No one in their right mind would seriously consider making this nightmare would they?
Besides, I thought we were rejoicing a few weeks back because "Ding Dong" the wicked witch Jon Peters was dead. Oh well. This movie sounds like an incredible misfire in nearly every way. And I'm not even that big a Superman fan. -
Sep 24, 2002 12:06:12 AM CDT
WE MUST SPEAK! ALL OF US - ADMIRERS OF SUPERMAN, COMIC FANS, WE
by clark clay
We must fight for him.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAahAH(deep breath)HAHAH HA! It's like that crappy idea a while back for the poisonous snakes on a plane flick; for sheer comedic value I have got to see this one on the big screen.
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Keep Ratner and Peters and Abrams away from this material. I hope this is a dark day for you thick headed motherfuckers. It's payback time. I hope the WB is preparing to rip this away from you. Probably not. It's like telling that cute teen age girl not to sleep with the sleazy drugged out ex-con. They are just way too excited to be in bed, they can't see what will happen to them later.
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And stop supporting all their properties. Comics, games, all of it!
Also forward this site and Corona to others, we have to stop this.
As fan of Superman we have to spread the word of this barbarity
and stop it NOW
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I'm a huge chris Reeve superman fan. I believe that Donner got it perfect, but I always try to keep an open mind. But what I just read is by far the dumbest, most ridiculous bunch of horse sh*t that I have ever read in my life. J.J. Abrams has tried to take the best fighting from the previous films and upgrade them with a post matrix style. The new script is not superman. Its not anything. The script is dumb, the origin story about krypton is even dumber. Lex Luthor: OH MY GOD!!! SOMEONE SHOOT ME NOW SO THAT I MAY NEVER SEE IT!! Warner already f**ked up Batman now they're after the man of steel. Can't someone come up with something original? I'm going to stop there because I can't say enough bad things about this story.
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Think about it-- they want to re-invent the franchises right? Why not Bruce Wayne from Krypton too? Then they could do super-powered fight scenes in Batman projects. Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy, Schwartzeneger as Freeze-- the problem was that Batman didn't have any "powers"-- everything else about that movie worked!
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I can't imagine anyone changing this story so much and spending that much money on it. OK well maybe someone thinks it's a good idea but it'll never be made. Who would take a chance like that? It's like making a film where Spiderman is actually the son of a spider and a man and having him fly. If this is a true script, someone with some sense will eventually say, "no, we are not going to spend this much money on a film that will piss off the actual fans of the story." It would be smarter to make this character a brand new superhero.
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Sep 24, 2002 12:52:55 AM CDT
Dick Donner help us!!!!!! WARNER has KRYPTONITE and they're
by scorzamania
My God! This script is fucking terrible. This is not superman. What the fuck is up with a gay jimmy olsen? Or CIA lex luther my ass bullshit come from? Or the best one of all. THE SUPERMAN SUIT THAT FITS THAT GIVES HIM SPECIAL POWERS? Sounds to me like the new sorry ass Jakie Chan movie with the special suit. Nothing and may I say NOTHING in this script resembles anything of a superhero movie. Abrams has turned a intelligent, strong, loving charictar into a dumb, strongheaded, weak ass loser that follows where his dick leads him. Ambrams went from a hero film to a quest/destiny story. And who the fuck are all of these loser bad guys that no one gives a fuck about. Sounds to me like a wannabe Zod, Non, and Ursa. Infact if anyone was going to write a good script I would have to hand it over to Dick Donner and Tom Mank. or for my second choice the writers and creators of the Animated adventures of superman. I can promise you this if this script is made no one and I mean no one will go see it. The story doesn't even sound marketable. It sounds too violent for kids, and espically offending to those who are not crazy about gays. And also like YOUGERT said from SPACEBALLS. MERCHANDISING WHERE THE REAL MONEY FROM THE MOVIE IS MADE! If you can't get little kids into see the movie then their certainly not going to buy the toys. If you people at warner bros. really just want to make some money off of superman then just re-release the Chris Reeve movies and just upgrade the graphics and add some new scences like you did for the dvd. And besides all of the crap that's in the script, let's pretend that the script is decent. HOW ARE YOU EVER GOING to top MARLAND BRANDO, GENE HACKMAN, CHRISTOPHER REEVE, GLEN FORD AND MARGOT KIDDER? The answer boys and girls is...YOU CAN'T SO STOP TRYING WHILE YOU'RE STILL AHEAD!!!!!!!!! I don't care what anyone says Christopher Reeve is SUPERMAN! When I see him in a mag. or on tv. I see the man of steel. He's just without his tights, cape and red boots. So now the question comes up to warner's, Will superman try to fly again and fall flat on his face or will they leave superman alone and let it soare by itself for years to come? ONE LAST QUESTION, is the music theme going to be the same and will john williams compose it or will they fuck that up to?
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There is no Frikkin' way that this script is for real. I figure after Batman and Robin, NOTHING could get worse, but this piece of crap... well, it would set a whole new standard. We can only pray that this is a joke, and if not, that the American public/sheep will turn away from this disaster and not spend a dime. But you see what Scooby Doo pulled in, so I guess we'll be seeing a Deluxe Flying Lex figure soon....I wanna laugh, but this just sucks....
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Why not let Carrottop star as Aquaman...you know...Superman & Batman's love child who turns evil.
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If there are fans of superman it is because they like the superman story. So if they like the superman story why in heavens name would you change it. Get it into your stupid few brain cells. SUPERMAN IS AWSOME BECAUS HE IS SUPERMAN! What you created was Loserman. Why don't you just quit the stupidity and do what works stick with the actual superman. I think more people will want to watch a remake of the comics than some stupid starwars/kryptonian/super/loser/man movie. Get a clue morons. Did you forget that Batman & Robin happened? Yeah remember it didn't work. Hence the stupidity of making something worse. Thanks for nothing. I think Batman year one would have been ten times better. so long losermen
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WB This script sucks, by all means go ahead and make a Superman Movie, just don't make a shit one!!! Others have shown in recent years that it's possible to make a decent Superhero movie. Just apply their methods to this Character. You'll get your money which is what really matters to you doesn't it? Stop massaging someone's ego who thinks he can do a better job than those who've gone before him and will movies stop thinking the Matrix is the only fucking way to do an action scene? The Matrix was excellent, let's see some other ways tried eh? Cheers.
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Sep 24, 2002 1:31:35 AM CDT
Power struggle at Warners -- and Peters is winning, damn it.
by spacephil
Least that's what seems to be going on. I knew something was wrong when I read that NY Times article -- anyone notice how Peters ended up smelling like roses ? Got all the good quotes ? No kidding -- ten to one that article was rigged to get him more support among WB's stockholders. And let's face it, his fingerprints all over this script. The canon changes, the heavy ripping-off of other movies (Remember, Smith mentioned Peters was influenced by EPISODE ONE ? And here we find a picture-perfect copy of Naboo. Hmm, one wonders). So in essense, it looks like Peters is holding all the cards. Once again, as it has been throughout his whole career, he'll win, not because he's right, not because of any pragmatic factor, but simply because he's so heavily networked that it's impossible to get him out of the industry, like a parasite.
Christ. Somebody stop this son of a bitch. Please. -
Cut out the juvenile talk. Acting like a bunch of angry lunatics going on for a paragraph or more isn't going to sway WB. Tell in two sentences what you want to see in a new Superman franchise.
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This is want happens when you let a bunch of dipshit number crunchers decide what to do with an icon.Batman vs.Superman was a
lame idea.But this is far worse. WB was have some secret deathwish. I truly hope they don't make this movie.LET PAUL DINI WRITE IT!His Superman stories are among the best ever produced.'Nuff said.Sorry,wrong company. -
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU EVEN FUCKING FUCKING THINK OF FUCKING DOING THIS PIECE OF OLD ROTTEN CUM OF A FUCKEN SCRIPT. YOU MOTHEFUCKERS
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What The HELL?!?!?
Warner Brothers better not let this current movie script be made.
I'm A HUGE Superman FAN and that sript is not a Superman story.
It is REALLY STUPID, it SUCKS, and it's BULLSHIT!!!!!
They just better not do it!!!!! -
The history of bad ideas:
1. New Coke
2. This
Maybe this is all a ploy by Warners to get people to rise up and demand their beloved American icon in its original form. Man, I just can't get enough of that New Coke. Anyone know where I can get some? -
The origin should be kept intact, reintroducing the character and the world he lives in to a modern audience. The first Superman movie is a simple but epic story about destiny with a young man from another planet raised by two human parents who comes to find his place in a larger world.
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pull the fucking plug on this movie RIGHT NOW WB coz that so called script that that you have is a piece of absolute shite. Did you lot not see spiderman? It was frikkin awesome, supes fans want a supes movie that is like that!!!!! (you know not EXACTLY like spidey but one that rocks as much). If you make THAT movie it will make people embarassed to say they are Superman fans FACT!!!!!!! "Oh I see you collect Supes memorobilia, yeah that was a GREAT movie they did of him last year wasnt it? WAA HA HA HA!!!!" and we will be able to do nothing but curse under our breath at the taunters because they will be speaking the truth!!!!!!!!!! WB make us PROUD to be Supes fans, give us a movie worthy of the greatest superhero of all time and if you wont then I hope one good thng comes of the making of the movie and you lot all lose your jobs beacause of the money your gonna lose and you all get diseases and die soon afterwards.
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that does sound bad. nobody will ever read this far down and see this post, but wow, that sucks. don't do it! either make something original, or make something traditional, but don't make something freaking horribly derivative of The X-Files, Star Wars, or whatever other fantasy films have been cribbed from here.
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Sep 24, 2002 2:08:26 AM CDT
Because I guess they were watching Earth TV just in case or some
by a goonie
that comment fucking rules.
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My God, WB, JUST HOW DAMNED LOW CAN YOU SINK?!?!?! Just how much do Jon Peters and his goon squad have to destroy Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's character (who IS an American icon; Shuster was from Canada, but Siegel was an American thru and thru) before you get the hint? THIS ISN'T HOW YOU TREAT SUPERMAN!!!!! Why do you insist on letting talentless hacks motivated solely by ego and greed (Peters, Burton, Abrams, McG, and all the other grease monkeys who've worked under them--if I ever met any of these @$$holes, I shudder to think what kind of tirades would explode from my mouth) violate this character when there are quality filmmakers who would do Superman justice beyond compare AND make a an extremely good, successful movie? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Here are the folks who you SHOULD be BEGGING to make a new Superman movie: 1. Nicholas Meyer (directing from his own script) 2. Rob Reiner 3. Richard Donner (Superman maestro that he is, and once rumored to be one of the three producers who might have replaced Peters) 4. George Miller 5. Ron Howard 6. John McTiernan 7. Wolfgang Petersen 8. Irvin Kershner 9. Lawrence Kasdan 10. Robert Zemeckis 11. Martin Campbell 12. Mimi Leder 13. Stuart Baird 14. Tony Scott 15. Ridley Scott And while we're at it, here are some producers who should be making this film instead of current Superman producer Jon "I hate Superman
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Moriarty, I trust you. I really do. Over time you've become one of my favorite writers. But I would sell my soul to Satan right now to destroy that faith I have in you, and allow myself to believe that this is some sort of sick joke. I didn't think much of The Matrix. I didn't really like Harry Potter. The WB is currently an acid-bath of horrible, horrible crap in my mind, and has nothing to keep me from totally boycotting it's products. That being the case, if this film goes any further with this script, I can guarantee that I won't be patronizing any more of their films for a long time to come. You can put money on it.
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This sure puts that whole organic webshooter "issue" in perspective, doesn't it?
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Sep 24, 2002 2:16:58 AM CDT
I'm surprised no one else is annoyed as to the obvious Chris
by superninja
Superman is sent to another world. Jor-El chose the parents. His mission to save our world and the hope that one day Superman would come back to Krypton. The "Prophesy" and all that. It's as bad as Anakin's "virgin" birth in Star Wars. I really wonder what grasp this writer has of the Superman character.
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hilarious and profound at the same time, this review just floored me. the fact that you actually explained to me (in detail) the storyline and plot of the film seriously kicks ass. at first, that opening sounded interesting. it sounded too much like the rambunctious, impatient beginnings of both of Schumacher's Batman flicks, but it certainly sounded interesting. and there was more good to follow. but some of these "additions" are completely braindead excuses for movie blockbuster imaginings. the majority of today's action films are crap, so why do we need a twenty-minute multi-super-fight sequence? and then a whole bunch more fights afterwards. and Jor-El and Supes having a chat in Heaven. i am NOT a gigantic Superman fan. X-Men was my main comic book obsession. but i love Donner's 1978 motion picture. and i know Superman can make another good movie.
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This is the worst piece of sh*t I have ever heard of. This is worse than the treatment Isaac Asimov got in the movie adaptation of "Nightfall" (regarded by some as the worst movie ever made). I swear, I will not go see this movie if they make it. I really, really, really want another Superman movie, but not like this. Slap-dash, half-baked. Somebody get a COMIC BOOK person to write a script for God's sake. Get somebody besides these total dumbasses who seem bent on losing money on the very first installment, thereby negating the need to make it a franchise. Godalmighty this is bad. This is very bad. I'm so pissed off!
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This story is truly awesome it's all over the place better than anything seen so far. THis Superman is just an excuse for CGI but man this story is juicy who cares about the simple simon type superman of the comics...i prefer twisted Frank Miller style Superman myself...but come on all you people just want to be on Moriarty's side, he said he's not even that great of a fan. So what if Krypton is like Naboo...that's cool. I didn't really like that one ice set they used in the oG that much...but the OG 1234 still rock. so piss off all you sheep buggers, hevex out!
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"The New NivekJ1" is right, of course. Comic books and TV and movies have never been 100% in agreement. There is always something different. Look at Transformers. There were several comics, several TV series, and a movie. None of them were "true" to each other. There are fans who whine and cry about which one is the "real" Transformers saga, and then there are fans who put each one into its own little box and consider them all to be individual story universes that don't relate to each other.
Yeah, I know all about Superman. I've read the comics, watched the cartoon series, and seen the movies. I enjoy the character and his powers and his weaknesses and what he stands for. If a movie or a TV show or a comic book wants to portray him or his history or his friends in a slightly different way, why would I want to make a fuss about it? I enjoy a fresh new view of something as much as anyone else. For example, I was curious about the planet Krypton, what went on there, how their technology worked, what kind of political system they had. But on page 3 of every comic book and minute 14 of every movie or TV show, they blow the frickin thing up! How cool would it be if they DIDN'T blow it up? Giant war machines? A thousand scout ships sent into the void to locate Kal-El? Now THAT is something I would pay to see.
I would urge everyone to back off from the petitions and the whining and the suicide attempts until they are walking out of the movie theater after seeing the movie. THAT is the time to complain. Not now. -
Sep 24, 2002 2:37:42 AM CDT
So let me get this straight, WB is sooo desperate to have a supe
by bjc0410
Jeeezus... it's so simple.
Step one:
Get Jeph loeb, Alex ross, Joe Kelly and Casey and this one guy who loves superman you may have heard of him... kevin smith? Mark Millar and waid. Get comic book writers who actually know the character.
Step two:
Watch the first 2 superman movies 100 times, Then watch 3 and four make notes of what went wrong in three and four. Watch the old TV series and the first season of lois and clark and the old cartoons and serials. Starting to sink in... Purchase a dvd collection of Dini's animated superman note the simplicity and mastery of it.
Step three:
This is where i curse and really get fucking mad at the wb's stupidity. In this script you have about 10 made up villains exclusive to the move. WHY? There are only a FUcking THOUSAND villians to choose from in the DCU. Darkseid Brainiac, Lex, Mr mxp, Metallo, etc. USe them you stupid jackasses.
Step four:
Assemble cast
(some of you may disagree with my casting decisions)
Superman/Clark Kent-
Some Unknown
Jerry O'Connell
Bruce Campbell
Eric Bana
Lois Lane-
Lauren Graham (gilmore girls)
Lylah(from "Angel")
Terry Farrel(DS9)
Lex Luthor-
Michael Rosenbaum
(i know he's young for the role but he's so damn good on smallvile ps rename smallville LEX)
Michael Chiklis
Perry White-
Jerry Orbach
Jimmy Olsen-
Seth Green
Story
basic origin shuttle crah powers raised in kansas
lex is an evil manipulative billionare tries to frame superman for some kind of impending disaster Lois and Clark are trying to get to the bottom of the story while there sexual tension heats up. supes saves the day just in time fight lex at the end.. lex is in that cool green and purple superpowers armor. Movie ends with a congression enron like hearin on Lexcorp. Lex's team of lawyers able to free lex. Lex vow's revenge on superman. supes says anytime anyplace.
the happy ending
sequel:
A disturbance in space superman encounters Darkseid clues are unveiled to reveal darkseid maybe responsible for the destruction of krypton. Meanwhile lois is struggling over choosing whether to spend time with clark or supes. Jimmy takes pictures of a spatial disturbance near lexcorp and luthors thug are after him. The daily planet becomes undersiege. As clark discovers Lex and darkseid have struck a deal.... dun dun daaaaaaaaaaa -
WHAT THE FUCK?????????????
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make a capt marvel movie.. noone will care if you destroy that character. think of the possibilities.. instead of having jimmy olsen being gay, you could get mary marvel to be a lesbian... see already sounds better, huh?
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So it is prophezied that Superman will come back and save the real world because he is The One. He spends some time coming to terms with the prophecy and then comes into his powers, proceeding to beat down his enemies using wire and kung fu skills. He then comes back from the dead because of the prophecy, vowing to go on to fight the matrix which we'll all find out more about in the sequels... Err krypton... not the matrix...
"You can't die Kal-El. Martha told me that I would fall in love. And the man that I loved would be THE ONE. So you *can't* die superman.. I love you.. come back from the dead."
"Uhh.. ok Jimmy..." *Supermans Heart starts up again*
...
TY-ZOD: "Do you hear that sound Kal-El ? That is the sound of inevitability... the sound of your franchises death."
Kal-El: "His name... is JJ ADAMS!" -
there's a Prophecy just like Matrix. A character tells another he can't die because of the Prophecy, just like in Matrix. There's a CIA UFO Agent just like X-Files. There's a keg party just like Felicity. There's a rip-off from a book where he goes to the Andes and just... listens. A character reveals he can fly at the end for the big surprise just like in Matrix. A character who sounds like a rip-off of Lobo is in it... what else?
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If Warner Bros. makes this movie it would be such a huge dissapointment. You can not change a characters origin just to try to make an epic! Create a character of there own to do this. Did they not learn from Superman 4 and Batman and Robin how to piss the fans off. They need to go back to someone who writes well and knows the character. Where the heck is Kevin Smith, he did a great job with Green Arrow! Very upseting to see what a studio will do with rights of a character just to get fans to come to the films. I agree Avi and Raimi and Singer at least know how to keep true to the character. Warner Bros. If you are reading these comments listen!
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What the fuck is this filth. First of all, to any of you dumb fucks who want to defend this script and make the argument that it's okay if TV/movies and comics aren't 100% the same, yeah that's true, but a general rule of thumbs is to at least stay in the same ball park of about 90% the same. This script and the Superman Mythos are freaking universes apart. I really like the idea of a surviving kryptonian hunting down Kal-el. It kind of gives it a Highlander feeling to it. Plus, it leaves the door open for villiany team ups such as this Ty-Zor and Luthor, or hell, go balls out and have a Ty-Zor, Luthor Brainiac ( I was always disappointed he never made into a movie or a live show) tri-fector. Or you could even make the kryptonian threat Brainiac instead of this Ty-Zor and that would be a treat for old school silver age fans of the Brainiac luthor team ups. But this shit of Krypton still existing, oh hell no, and Luthor being in the CIA, and like 20 yrs. older than Clark. Look, Clark and Lex Are just about the same age and there is no way in hell he'd be a CIA agent. What is he supposed to be the LITE beer version of Mulder or some shit. And the whole meeting Lois in college...I think the A-hole that wrote this got her confused with LANA DAMNIT. He went to school with lana. He met Lois in Metropolis! And finally this living suit thing...yeah I liked it the first time I saw it when Marvel did this with Spiderman...You douche' bags! Hey while you're at it, why don't you go for broke and promote Lex from CIA to the head of SHIELD, Hell, while we're doing that, we'll also spin it so that it seems that Perry White was actually part of the Super Soldier program that spawned Captain America. Pull your heads out of your asses. You're paid to write, not be a dumb ass. This is a freaking travesty. I can understand differences between Comic and movie. With comic, such as Superman, you've got 60 yrs to tell your story...now that si pretty damn hard to fit in two hour time span, so some thing will be changed...but you don't chnge the entire premise. That's like saying, "You know what...we really need to do a movie about Vietnam...but this time, lets have General Patton lead the charge and instead of battling the Viet-Kong lets make it oh...Ah Hell, the French. Comedy relief will be provided by Chris Rock...on the front lines as Lil' Black Sambo ( a very old racial cartoon, very offensive)...I smell an oscar." If you want to make a good comic movie, do it the Marvel way...pick someone who is going to give a damn and will put Quality before Quanity. Tap someone like Geoff Jones or David Goyer, one of the two actually worked with Donner on Superman and do a great job on JSA, or Paul Dini and/or Mark Waid. I tel you what, if you want the best and most Continuity in a movie, Waid is the man to go with. The point is...destroy most of this script. Soon. Then go to church and beg forgivness cause I'm pretty sure you committed a sin some how when You people wrote this stinker.
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and Superman is angst-y and drifting just like Spider-Man. JJ is thoroughly f**ked.
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Sep 24, 2002 3:26:45 AM CDT
Abbrams has just fucked Superman up the ass whilst wearing a kry
by jfsebastian
I've read this article four times now just to make sure I wasn't dreaming.
For how much longer do Warner Bros. own Batman and Superman?The first chance they get DC should get rid of them and sell the rights to New Line or something. Sounds like it gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. -
...It's really not that bad. I'm an avid comic book collector as well as a studying film student and in general it seems more like a Superman Elseworlds tale.
The stuff featuring Superman sounds decent enough, I love the more dramatic arrival of Kal-El onto the planet as well as the suit itself, the small changes made by Mr. Abrams are great. The return from the dead is played out almost the same in the comic book and it bothers me about as much as it did in the comics.
I loved the opening sequence with the beaten up Superman, what a start. And, kung-fu withstanding, the fights scenes sound pretty damn impressive and HUGE in scale which is what I expect from Superman. Super-powered villains that challenge the man of steel, Great! I also really like the idea of making it a trilogy with one major story arc.
Krypton not blowing seems to be a sore point. I'm a bit indifferent to this because we still have motivation for Superman arriving on Earth and the essence of the story being about a man so far removed from his home is still valid and holds. Although it sounds as though the scenes on Krypton are pretty boring and probably need to be re-worked. I don't know if I would want an entire 'episode' of the trilogy to take place on Krypton though because of the nature of Superman's core which is taking care of a planet that can't take care of itself.
Then of course there are the ridiculous things, Jimmy Olsen being gay! Can anyone say POLICITALLY CORRECT? And then of course there is Lex Luthor. Why is it that NONE of the Superman films ever treat him with the respect he deserves. In Donner's Superman he was NOT Lex Luthor, he was NOT cool, suave, intelligent and fully under control. He WAS comic relief, with some input into the story. Now he's a super-being, he is Kryptonian. Now if this were an Else-World's tale that would be just fine but it ain't so this plot point just plain SUCKS. Lex has to be the business tycoon with brainpower up the wazoo.
So in general it's not that bad. It's an early draft so just relax. I'm sure Warner is feeling the pressure because of the Marvel successes and they have a good crew. I'm looking forward to seing it. Later. -
I am yet another reader who went out and dug up his Talkback password just so he could chime in on this travesty. I am yet another reader who can't imagine this as being anything more than a sick joke. I am yet another reader who prays that Warner Bros. actually pays attention to sites such as these and reads what true, passionate fans feel about things.
Why is it so important for a movie to be at least mostly faithful to the original source material? First off, would any studio treat an adaptation of a regular novel or any piece of classic literature like this? But never mind that, let me put this in terms that studio-types might understand: the people who read comic books shell out about three dollars an issue for every comic book they buy. Usually, if they buy one comic book, they'll also be buying a few others. I spend twenty dollars a week on comic books, and since I also work at a comic book store, I know that I'm cheap compared to the majority of the 'fanboy' population out there. These are characters who have lasted decades and penetrated every range of media because the original concept was so good, us fanboys have chosen to throw money at it at least once a month to keep it going and find out about the latest adventures of our favorite character.
Does that sway anybody? No? Alright, how about this: I'm a Spider-man fan. I go and see the Spider-man movie and love it. I tell everybody I know how great it is. I drag a few people to see it with me everytime I go. We fanboys do not exist in small concentration camps where we are forced to only interact with each other. Hell, none of my friends read comics. All of them saw Spider-man. Some of them multiple times. They all told other people they liked it and quite a few went to see it again with family or girlfriends or just other friends that I don't know. See how this spreads out? These word-of-mouth connections led some people to go see the movie who never were interested by the trailers or the comic. If a movie is faithful to a source material with millions of fans who continually throw money at the comic on a regular basis, everybody they know is going to get dragged into seeing it if they like it and, more importantly, many people will end up seeing it multiple times to this end. If they don't like it, everybody else will be warned.
Now, please don't interpret this as a fanboy trying to grandize his role in this system. Lord, no. But the evidence seems to support what I am saying. Look at every successful comic book movie. All of them are considered mostly faithful to the comic book fanbase. Look at the least successful comic book movies. These are not faithful. They are also terrible, although for other reasons as well.
The people who make these great adaptations have a passion for the source material. Sam Raimi got the job to make Spider-man solely based on his passion. Sure, he has a bankable track record, but the other directors up for the job had plenty more action hits than he did. Sam Raimi set out to make the best SPIDER-MAN movie he could because that is what he loved. When a creator has enough passion for the source material, the end result tends to reflect that in quality. Warner Bros. is supposedly motivated by the massive success of Spider-man. Hint, hint.
Look, Superman's had the same basic origins for decades. He's had the same damn costume for decades. In the comic books, people tried to change it. They failed and the sales of the comics suffered for it. When somebody comes along wanting to make a movie adaptation of a Shakespear play, they do not maul the entire story. The most they ever do is fit the story to a different setting. Hell, look at the modern remake of "Romeo+Juliet." All they changed was the setting. They even kept the Old English dialogue!
One might argue that comic books are not Shakespeare, that comic books are not classic literature. Yeah, well if a character is enduring enough for millions to spend at least three dollars a month for each comic he is featured in every month for damn near their entire lives, I think some respect is deserved for that character.
Hell, even if you think the fans are stupid, at least take advantage of our willingness to fork over so much money on a regular basis by giving us the character we love.
In conclusion, if it's good enough to last this long almost completely unchanged, it's definitely good enough to make bank at the box office. Don't change what was in the comics. Just do stuff that was in the comics that could never be done in movies before. One Talkbacker came up with a terrific yet simple treatment involving Brainiac, Luthor and Metallo. Metallo, geez, there you go! It's the Terminator with a personality and kryptonite in his chest! That fight could be as technically awesome and blatantly symbolic as any. And what's more, it's never been seen in a movie before. That's the way the studio suits need to be thinking. The cow still has plenty more milk in it, no need to kill it now and just feed us the hooves.
(Oh, on a side note, I don't know if anybody addressed one Talkbackers comments about the wheelchair-bound Superman animation or not, but that is definitely not intended as a pot-shot at Christopher Reeves. It is an image of AICN staff member Hercules, who regularly posts the TV updates, dressed as Superman, and I assume that the main reasoning behind it is as a jab at the terribly sickening Superman script Mori has reviewed. Still, the Reeves connection is pretty easy to make, so I do hope they realize this and replace it with something else soon.) -
I can't believe Warner Bros. is this stupid... oh wait, yes I can as these are the SAME idiots who ruined Batman!
I can only pray this piece of crap script never actually makes it to the theaters.
Mysa -
You've all been fooled! This is not a Superman script, its a script for a stand up version of Superman, like Scary Movie was a stand up of horror movies... Ermmmm... well... at least I HOPE thats the case, because if not, Superman truely is dead.
*sigh* -
Show the Powers That Be at Time Warner that you can do something better. Flood their submissions office with every synopsis/treatment/script you have propping open a vent relating to The Man Of Steel. Do everything short of the legal definition of harrassment and/or stalking.
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I wouldn't know where to begin. Was this script cobbled together by
the Marketing department after taking an average of several poles of
what people want in a movie (from several conflicting genres)?
If they want this piece of swill to work then simple... change the
character from Superman to something completely different, as well as
the names of all the involved characters, because none of this is
superman so why bother to keep the same names? Having grown up in the
60s and 70s, I ws priveledge to every cheapy SAciFi flicks the
networks could squeeze onto television, some bad, some mediocre, some
few unspeakably bad, and more recently I've even seen the REALLY bad
Event Horizon and even (shudder) Gosford Park...
With the exception of the latter (I REALLY detest the pretentiously
bad swill that is Godford Park), tis script looks to bottom them ALL
out. Rather then make it, how's about if the guys At Warners just
take a gun and shoot off their foot; it'll be less painful and
certainly a lot cheaper. I could SNEEZE out something better then
this with a bad cold, I've STEPPED on less revolting things, I've
PUKED up better looking stuff, I've- Well, you get the idea.
If you're going to do a classic piece of genre literature, especially
if it's so well known, then by all mens stick to the original
concepts... there's got to be reason it's all so popular, after all.
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I would still like a good quality movie.
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Sep 24, 2002 4:06:11 AM CDT
My God, someone at WB's thinks this is good enougth to make!
by gabba-uk
I agree there are moments that could really, really kick ass on screen. But a Krypton thats still there?? Super-Lex?? Jimmy gay (nothing against gays)?? I mean WTF!! This must NOT in any circumstances be made. I'd rather watch a movie a of the Dean Cain/Terri Hatcher version. Flame me if you want but I quite liked them as Clark and Lois and their show certainly had more merit than this POS. And the real tragic thing about this script is that it is gonna be made. Thats right. It will be made. Because when it come to licences they own compleatly WB's don't have a clue.
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Call it "Superass". The idea is that after coming away unscathed from countless spills and crashes, Johnny Knoxville discovers he is the last son of Krypton. He decides the best use for his powers is to just jump of of higher stuff. Bam Margera can be Jimmy Olsen and you can see if Steve O will tuck his junk and play Lois.
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Superman fucking sucks.
Who cares if they change the story, that's all the comics ever did anyway.
I mean, red kryptonite and shit - bizaro world - no one respects Superman. Who cares anymore.
Make the fucking movie. I'll see it. Twice, maybe thrice.
This isn't sarcasm, I honestly want to see this.
And "Alias" rocks, like a monkey in a whore house - Smallville blows.
Do it Warner Brothers, I'm sick of seeing Superman being such a fucking pussy!
Fuck you, Superman fans - get a life. Let movie magic happen. -
Sep 24, 2002 4:24:17 AM CDT
to WB: this fan reaction is real. and that means NO MONEY! Go
by tall_boy
hit 'em where it hurts, kids.
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I was thinking that it could work as long as they cast Marky Mark as Superman.
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But he has to have "Lois and Clark 4 eva" cut into his chest. There also needs to be a rollercoaster scene.
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Sep 24, 2002 4:49:01 AM CDT
Holy Shit! Please Oh God don't let this piece of shit of a m
by haithai24
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Sep 24, 2002 4:56:02 AM CDT
So, maybe that's the big revelation at the end of the Trilog
by lordhoban
I figured it out, now is that fuckin brilliant or what? Abrams, your surprise ending is ruined to forever scar the minds of superman geeks everywhere.. muahahaha!
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I can't lie some of the scenes sounded cool. Supes saving Air Force one, him on top of a mountain listening for who needs him, the opening arc with Ty-zor destroying the city, and Supes slams to the ground ready for battle? How cool is that, but why instead of Kryptonians why not use the Newgods/Darkseid mythos to draw from. I mean a lot of them New Gods are as powerful as Supes. If Warners wants an incrediable storyline for a flick and use elements of fantasy,sci-fi, alien worlds, and space travel, then why not use Darseid invading earth, and his goal is he's searching for the Anti-Life equation hidden here on Earth by Jor-el? Even better it was Darkseid who somehow poisoned Kryptonians to their native planet, thus wiping the entire race out, and that's why Jor-el sent Kal-el to Earth along with the Anti-life thing that Darkseid is looking for to save his son as well as keeping Darkseid from getting what he wants. Abrams can even keep Krypton intact. Heck they can even keep this Ty-zor and let him remain Kryptonian, and he and a small band of rogue Kryptonians aided Darkseid in the destruction of their race in exchancege for power, and yes they can even keep in that both Jor-el and Supes mother was tortured by them. I could care less if Krypton is a clone of Naboo, that's a pity argument, but Darkseid making Krypton poisonous to its own people would be rich as well as give a good explaination as to why Kryptonite is deadly to Supes. I have a ton of ideas that are far better then that crap I just read that is supposed to be Superman. Abrams can even keep the CIA alien chasing agent, and in the end it turns out to be none other then Darseid himself, and the mother of all battles happen at the end, and he mops the floor with Supes, or the agent is a New God from New Genisis, and he's their to debunk rumors of aliens on Earth as to not to draw attention from Darkseid. I mean it's so much potential, and I wouldn't mind Darkseid as part of his orgin, but in the 1st film they need to keep Darseid out until the end and use him as the climax or even better let him make his grand entrance in the 2nd chapter, and build up mystery and fear about him. That would be so cool, you have these superpowered agents of Apokolips and they are giving Supes a hard time, and they have all this power, but they are dreadfully afraid of Darkseid, and don't want to fail and have to face his wrath. Oh well Warners would never go for this, because it's to simple for them, but they insist on creating new characters, and changing the sorce material so d@mn drastically. I just have ideas, and I don't have the first clue about writing an entire screenplay, so Warners feel free to use the storyline I just set up for free. ABOVE ALL KEEP LEX LUTHOR HUMAN!! Luthor's greatest asset is his mind, and that's what makes him an equal to Superman, and other Superpowered beings. Remember that Warners!
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I'm telling you, it's gonna be a Superman comedy, why complain? I've never seen one of those before... Then again, dumping Bat vs. Supes, which was actually shaping up to be pretty cool? Fuck that shit..
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Sep 24, 2002 5:15:42 AM CDT
This is a total insult to everything Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuester
by danzigg
This put me in a bad mood all day yesterday you just as well rip up and burn everything you seen and read about Superman how hard is it to make a good superman film?
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Sep 24, 2002 5:24:49 AM CDT
One of the factors in the recent success of superhero-type movie
by margot_tenenbaum
...is that we'd never seen Spider-Man or The X-Men brought to the screen before. Even the Matrix showed us something new. Latching bits and pieces of other successful movies onto the Superman mythos is absolutely pointless. If they want a different take on superheroics, why not go to thier huge stable of characters and give us a Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash or Mister Miracle & Big Barda movie? Stop recycling and give us something we've not seen before, WB!
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ToyMachine, I'm with you on the "Lois and Clark 4 eva" thing. Definitely adds to the whole vibe WB is apparently going for. How about casting Hulk Hogan as Lex, and Madonna as Lois? Jimmy should be played by either Chris Rock or Richard Simmons...either one and I'm stoked! This movie is gonna rock!
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Please please PLEASE. There are THOUSANDS of great SUPERMAN comic book stories to adapt. Why do this NEW STUPID CRAP instead? Did you learn NOTHING from SPIDER-MAN? Leave the cool Maxtrix-style superfights, throw away everything else. And TOM WELLING IS SUPERMAN, dammit. He can play him RIGHT NOW. He's in his TWENTIES, you know. If you get somebody else, or contradict SMALLVILLE, you're CRAPPING IN THE FACES of everybody who watches that show. Crapping ALL LIQUID.
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I've been following this ever growing and incredibly angry rant at WB for the last 24 hours and can't believe nobody else appears to have noticed that JJ Abrams simply appears to have written 'Roswell:The Movie' and called it 'Superman'. Surely Jason Katims should be sueing.
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Why do they want to fuck Superman in his ass? Why? What is this shit? I was so excited when I heard that the new Superman script was something special. So excited. But now I read this and I find out that Krypton doesn't even explode? What the fuck? If nothing else, Krypton explodes you fucking assholes! I can't wait until the head asshole at Warner Bros. croaks so you assholes can get your shit together. Is this how you repay greats like James Dean? By bastardizing great ideas and whoring them out for merchandizing? This makes me want to blow up your lot. Seriously. I want to do everything in my power to see that you don't make anymore fucking movies. What are you trying to do to Superman? Everyone knows that Krypton blows up. EVERYONE. My fucking grandma knows that Krypton blows up. You dumb fucks. You dumb, lazy capitalist fucks.
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Every single bloody time a doodle on a bog roll comes out, everyone seems to jump. I don't even know how studios can do this without people breathing down their necks like this. I'm in the process of writing a film myself, and I know for a fact getting something off the ground (pun intended) is a lot harder than it looks.
I agree with Moriarty that there is a lot of potential in this script with a lot of great visual ideas. Liberties are taken, but if it becomes workable cinema-wise I've got no qualms with it.
And what is it with all this Ratner bashing? So far as I can tell, he hasn't done anything wrong. True, he hasn't done classics, but he always make entertaining films.
And now my final thought...
"If you don't set out to make a movie to entertain, what's the point?" Joel Coen*
*OK, it's not my final thought, but you get the general idea. Watch the film, then the comments. -
Sep 24, 2002 6:24:01 AM CDT
About the "listening" on the mountaintop / is jpx JON PETERS?
by zabbadoo
Superman has f***ing x-ray vision. If f***ing Superman wants to f***ing know what's going on he F***ING TURNS HIS F***ING HEAD.
ps
jpx = jon peters? why the f*** else would he like this piece of s*** unless he was the f***ing a***ole who f***ing wrote it. -
That ***** made **** no **** sense at *** all.
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I've calmed downed and I'm ready to make a suggestion: Superman Is so engrained into our culture these days that you fortunatley wouldn't have to devote too much time to the destruction of Krypton. I honestly love the idea of a threat from krypton. The idea of a surviging Kryptonian is very cool...but it has been done, and Supes beat all 3 of them. I think Introducing Brainiac to the silver screen would work very well, especially if you did the classic Luthor/Brainiac team up against Superman. NO GAY JIMMY EITHER! It would even be kind of cool to see some red K in there too, maybe. If you could pull of a good movie the first go round, you can easily go into a franchise. Seeing as how Superman would enevietably beat the two in the first movie, he'd need a new advesary, this time, one with almost unparalleled intelligence...enter the Ultra-Humanite, in any of his forms. And finally the 3rd movie. I could see this being the definitive knock down drag out fight. You see, after "Crisis" the DC universe had alot of changes, one of which was the nature of Bizarro-Superman;now, Bizarro is a clone, so, you could have the return of Brainiac and Luthor and their attempt to strike at Superman, via an equal in strength...Enter Bizarro. See that would be a decent rilogy and return to greatness. Non of this non blown up krypton shit. And take a hint from Superman 3, don't just stick a comedian in there for the hell of it. THEN WE NEED A JLA MOVIE!
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....Manowar.
The Batman Animated shows are considered by most to be the best version of Batman(For the record, Tim Burtons batman didnt even get it right). The creative team constantly releases a quality show and they have a real understanding for the characters, how they work and have respect and love for the characters.
Doesnt it make sense to have them involved in the project.
Why hasnt some idiot at WB(who makes more in a year than I do in 4 realized "Duh! Lets have Paul Dini write a Batman and/or Superman script"
Why not have someone who worked on the Superman Animated show get involved?
HOW CAN THESE PEOPLE CONSTANTLY GET IT WRONG? Bat Credit Cards, turning Two Face into a bumbling baboon,Gay Robots,The Riddler Pet Detective,Polar Bears,Mr Freeze in fuzzy slippers,Superman suit made of Batman type body armor?!?!?!
WTF? -
This sounds about as good an ideas as Larry Clark directing an Archie and Jughead film.
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Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!Fuck That!
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I would not let them pay me to see this crap.
Let's face it the reason XMEN and Spidey did so well was they stuck to what worked and what the true fan wanted. We geeks know whats up!
Why they would go off on some goofy crusade like this is beyong me. Nothing makes sense in this script. I hate it.
They can do better. Hell! you or I could do better.
If they make this I will never see it!!!!!
ME! -
Sep 24, 2002 10:24:22 AM CDT
Hey WB, in a Sea of Passionate, But Nonetheless Pointless Fanboy
by thecomedian
Well, obviously you get the point. A lot of people feel very strongly about Superman. JJ Abrams' script may be full of big action but ultimately big action shouldn't get in the way of storytelling. I mean, even MICHAEL BAY of all people didn't like this script because it didn't gel as Superman the way we know him. So here's an idea. You've seen by now that there are hundreds of would be screenwriters on these boards with their own distinct ideas for a Superman movie. WHY NOT HAVE A CONTEST, ALA PROJECT GREENLIGHT. Call it KONTEST KRYPTON or whatever. THE RULES WOULD BE SIMPLE. UNSIGNED AND NON REPRESENTED WOULD-BE SCREEN WRITERS(E.I. FANBOYS)SEND YOU TREATMENTS FOR SUPERMAN THAT CAN BE NO LONGER THAN 2 PAGES IN LENGTH ALONG WITH THE FIRST 30 PAGES OF THEIR SCRIPT. YOU'VE GOT AN ARMY OF INTERNS AND D-GIRLS SO YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT COVERAGE. Sure, they'll probably want to KILL THEMSELVES after wading through hundreds of thousands of pages of infantile fanboy minutia but sure enough THERE WILL BE ONE IF NOT SEVERAL GREAT SCRIPTS. ONCE YOU'VE NARROWED DOWN YOUR FINALISTS(10 WOULD BE A GOOD NUMBER) YOU HAVE THEM SEND IN THEIR FULL SCRIPTS. Then you can wrestle it out with all your studio politics(I'm rooting for Joel Silver)and get the best possible script produced. Plus you can jump start the career of some hopeful so that they may begin their decent into the dark underworld of backstabbing politics, starfuckers and coke whores we all know and love. Sure, once you've actually picked the script you'll probably end up micro managing the project to the point where he or she won't recognize it. BUT THINK OF ALL THE FREE PUBLICITY YOU'LL GET! SURE, THE FINAL FILM WILL PROBABLY HAVE A SCENE WHERE JONATHAN KENT HAS A BEER AND CHEATS ON HULK HOGAN. BUT COME ON WB! IT'S THE 21ST CENTURY! GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!!!!
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President (of the United States) Lex Luthor creates Doomsday, using Superman's genetic material, to hunt down and kill the man of steel. He then creates the Cyborg, using Kryptonian nanotechnology, to replace him. He blows up Coast City with a nuclear weapon, pretends that it was a terrorist attack, so that he may declare martial law, and finally have absolute power over America. Meanwhile, Pa Kent has a heartattack, visits his adopted son in the afterlife, and tells him what happened. Instead of going to the Kryptonian Val-Halla, Kal-El returns to earth to set things straight. He returns in spiritual form, in his blue pure energy suit, and heads towards the Fortress of Solitude, which has been taken over by the Cyborg, aided by Supergirl and a seriously pissed-off Green Lantern. They manage to kick the Cyborg's ass, and Supes takes back his physical body, which had been regenerating in the matrix chamber, bathed in yellow sunlight, attended to by his robot-servants. Fully rejuvenated, Superman travels to Washington D.C., to expose and arrest Lex Luthor, but he rather blow his brains out than be taken alive. Superman returns to Metropolis to give his wife Lois Lane some tongue, and at the end of the movie, it is revealed that the man who put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger wasn't LexLuthor at all, it was merely his clone. The real Luthor is still somewhere out there, plotting his revenge... not bad, eh?
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President (of the United States) Lex Luthor creates Doomsday, using Superman's genetic material, to hunt down and kill the man of steel. He then creates the Cyborg, using Kryptonian nanotechnology, to replace him. He blows up Coast City with a nuclear weapon, pretends that it was a terrorist attack, so that he may declare martial law, and finally have absolute power over America. Meanwhile, Pa Kent has a heartattack, visits his adopted son in the afterlife, and tells him what happened. Instead of going to the Kryptonian Val-Halla, Kal-El returns to earth to set things straight. He returns in spiritual form, in his blue pure energy suit, and heads towards the Fortress of Solitude, which has been taken over by the Cyborg, aided by Supergirl and a seriously pissed-off Green Lantern. They manage to kick the Cyborg's ass, and Supes takes back his physical body, which had been regenerating in the matrix chamber, bathed in yellow sunlight, attended to by his robot-servants. Fully rejuvenated, Superman travels to Washington D.C., to expose and arrest Lex Luthor, but he rather blow his brains out than be taken alive. Superman returns to Metropolis to give his wife Lois Lane some tongue, and at the end of the movie, it is revealed that the man who put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger wasn't LexLuthor at all, it was merely his clone. The real Luthor is still somewhere out there, plotting his revenge... not bad, eh?
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i think time-warner is run by total and complete idiots. this script is making me want the tim burton,nicholas cage version instead.
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It gets to the part about Lois Lane investigating Lex Luthor and just stops. Why is that?
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In regard to zabbadoo's post, replace the *** with "uck" and you'll get the f***ing idea, except when ** is preceeded by an "a," in which case **=ss. And frankly, I get what you're saying, I agree that TB's are often unreasonable rants, and can often be written off as little more than boys verbally masterbating, but why wait for a bad adaptation to be made when we can make it CLEAR how we feel now? Even you have to admit that reworking the Superman story this much is not necessary to tell a good, fresh story. Nor is it the most financially smart route, as this will be an expensive film no matter WHAT script they use, only this particular one will alienate a lot of people for it's being unfaithful even to the vaguest knowledge of the Superman character. I have friends who do not care about Superman but grimaced when I told them Krypton doesn't blow up in this version but remains a significant plot device. This is not Superman, and if it does become cinematically viable, it really shouldn't be called Superman. If they're going to bother with an origin story, they should keep it simple and intimate and let it grow into something big. This thing starts big and confusing right out of the door, a big mistake often made by big blockbuster films these days. Maybe you're just trying to be the better mind here with your optimism, and I credit you with keeping that open mind, but come on. These plot twists are not for Superman. When the script is THIS off the mark, I don't think giving the benefit of the doubt will help much at all.
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Thank God I was stopped at the halfway point. That was enough for me to decide to dedicate my life to stopping this movie. It's hard for me to believe that there are so many people willing to work on this film tha just don't get it. Why not make a bio-pic of te life of Jesus Christ, but make him a jive talkin alien set in the seventies, and make Judas an evil dog with shifty eyes. Superman is bigger than Warner Bros., bigger than anyone working on it, and bigger than what ever the final outcome is. The film should be somewhat of a tribute to a story that already exists.
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I know um..Ali Knievel..posted this link earlier. But since it got lost in the shuffle I think I'll post it agai..I mean, too. It's my Superman casting and Treatment and it's also grouped with some great comic book reviews. Here's the link http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13129. All you people here are concerned about Superman but we don't see half of you reading about other comic book news. You guys are like Christians who only go to church on Christmas and Easter. Come to Church!! Sure Quixote gives hypocritical sermons, Superninja wears big, weird hats and thinks she's better than everyone and Buzz dips in the collection plate. But if you want your place in geek Heaven you must Testify! JOIN THE CHURCH OF @$$HOLES!! Or be damned to firey Hell of Jon Peters and his army of Mechanical Spiders and Gay Robots!!!!
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The guy about who mentioned mailing Richard Parsons with letters had a good idea. A GREAT idea would be for each of us to print out this talkback (all umpteen pages of it) and send *that* to Mr. Parsons.
It would show him, over and over again, what we all think of this abomination - and, for AICN, where we all hail from.
Go ahead...make his day. :) -
jerks. step off the soapboxes
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that joke about Jimmy having a boyfriend is probably a typo :)
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Dont you fuckers EVER think? It makes a change from seeing some "hilarious" gif of your fat ass shaking about but I think most people think the idea of someone in a wheelchair with a Superman suit on kinda sick? I dunno...maybe I'm over reacting...ask Christopher Reeves and see what he says.
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Dont you fuckers EVER think? It makes a change from seeing some "hilarious" gif of your fat ass shaking about but I think most people think the idea of someone in a wheelchair with a Superman suit on kinda sick? I dunno...maybe I'm over reacting...ask Christopher Reeves and see what he says.
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If this is real, it is very, very sad indeed. If you want to make a new Superman, why bother telling the origin at all? Everybody knows the damn origin anyway. If you like, just show the Krypton stuff all over again (or would they have to pay Marlon another million?) and then leap right into a standard Superman story. Like all the comic heroes, Superman's mythology is pretty simple. Superman is the last survivor a dead planet given great powers by our sun. He diguises himself as Clark Kent, a reporter. He has a thing for fellow reporter Lois Lane. Insert threat to world, have fun with love triangle, and you're done. I almost suggested they remake the first Superman (the Donner film) only because of how lousy the Luthor scenes were written, but the rest of it is nigh-perfect, so that's probably not a good idea. I don't like those Utah people anymore than the next guy, but would it be all right if I asked them to digitally remove Ned Beatty from my Superman DVD? Just my copy? What if I got Richard Donner's permission?
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Sep 24, 2002 12:15:08 PM CDT
at first i laughed because of sthe stupidity but now that ive th
by the professor
he needs a change of origin after this long anyway, the only bad part is the lex luthor part , they cant fuck with lex.
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dont you even think that some thought shoulda gone behind it? I mean...I'd much rather see something other than a naked, fat-assed Harry swing around up there but you'd have thought the powers that be coulda rubbed their two brian cells together and thought of something else?
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I knew about the **** thing, but I thought his actual comments made no constructive sense, and if anything hamper the argument more than enrich it.
As for the adaption, I agree the origin is clunky, but the some of the sequences really got me goin. The whole lead room duel was a superb idea, make Superman be threatened for a change.
My point is I feel that a lot of these insults at one studio are very harsh. True, they screwed up the last couple of Batman films, but they also made The Matrix, Swordfish and Deep Blue Sea. While the last two aren't masterpieces, they are perfect slices of entertainment and under-rated.
I hear a lot of references to Joel Silver here (who makes pictures for Warners). Personally, I worry for MGM whose sole income seems to be Bond, remakes and pestering other studios.
And yes, the Tim Burton Superman appealed to me more, but given POTA (I suspect studio foul play), I wonder if he really would've pulled it off.
My point (and there's one here) is that there is potential here, and I'm fed up with the whole mob rule that comes through here sometimes.
The fact remains its not a film, so it should not be looked in the same way as a film. As for the "flood the studio" idea: I suppose you did that for X-Men and Spiderman? -
Been a big Supes fan for forever,and don't honestly think this is going to get made but just in case...
Superman's gone through quite a few origins in the past, wasn't he in an orphanage way back when?
The planet not blowing and Lex being from K. up is pretty inexcusable but seeing as it's part of a trilogy, this may be explained later EX: the recent Return to Krypton comics storyline.
Superman and martial arts? Anyone remember him being trained by Mongul Jr. to fight in the OWAW storyline, plus he also is a practitioner of K. martial arts learned from the Eradicator or his Fortress or other K. tech. records, don't remember which exactly. Point is current comics Superman knows martial arts, he's had to fight enough other superpowered baddies to utilize it and trains with JL.
Jimmy being gay? Ok, this does suck but has his heterosexuality really been a big issue in the comic? So he went out with Lois's sister? Isn't being a turltle boy or another Elastic Lad pretty gay?
All that matrix influenced stuff? The matrix was heavily influenced on modern american comics (amongst other things) of which the basis is.... guess what? Superman
And as far as staying close to the source material, I think we've all forgotten some of the really wacky stuff they had him do pre-crisis.
All in all, this isn't the ideal Superman movie I want to see, but I'm enough of a fan to see almost anything related. Ideally, they'd just take Action #775 from last year and make that a film (not sure on the exact issue) basically it was Superman fights and Authority ripoff (Authority itself a ripoff of JLA only HARDCORE)
It'd be nice if this script was indeed mostly true to comic origins we just don't know it yet. Without parts 2 and 3 of the trilogy and until I hear about the rest of it, I'm keeping an open mind and giving these fucks way more credit than their worth. -
Sep 24, 2002 12:59:43 PM CDT
I didn't think the Hercules/Superman cartoon was a Chris Ree
by rev_skarekroe
But now that I think about it, maybe it is in poor taste. sk
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Sep 24, 2002 1:38:59 PM CDT
J.J. Abrahms ate an issue of Superman No.1 and shat it out all o
by dantuso
I hope to God this is a joke. Because if it isn't, the jackasses at Warner Bros. are just stupid enough to make this wretched, dreadful piece of garbage. Need proof? Just watch Batman Forever and Batman and Robin.
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... but this can't be ignored. when 300 zillion posts preceed mine, I figure my thoughts would be lost in the shuffle.
BUT DAMMIT, I have to join the masses. THis is a bad bad bad idea. Most everyones already said what I'd say so I'll just chime in as another voice that will not see this movie. If by some freak accident I do see it, I won't be paying for it. and I won't buy any merchadise. DO YYOU HEAR ME? NO MERHANDISE. I spent 8 bucks to see Spiderman and probably 80 on toys so far. and I'll buy that DVD too. by the end of the year I'll have spent over $100 on this ONE film. I'm not the typical film goer, but I think I do represent what the studios want. Tickets aren't as power as fanaticism! If you shit on a comic franchise you will lose that fanaticism. Opening weekend grosses are nice, but I know WB wants to move action figures, PS2 games, lunch boxes, shirts, ANYTHING with the S logo. And they'll jeopardize that in a big way if they deviate from the idea of Superman too much. -
Moriarty, if you're reading, I would just like to ask one request of you again. Will you please give me your assessment of the Batman vs. Superman script/idea? If you have already done so where can I find it? Fans: if there is a site that could inform me, not on those past statements of status, actors,etc--but on its actual STORY then I would love to hear about it. Also, was the BvsS concept popular among you? Only few have mentioned it and of those there was somewhat of a consensus that it may have been alright. I know that we're to be discussing Abrams but I am more interested in this project that now might never be made. From the little I have heard I think there was potential for a good film. It was Bonaventura rather than Peters that seems the true hero of the negotiations (though that may be assuming too much creative integrity of the former). Wouldn't it be great if a superhero movie--its director, script, and acting were so good that it would receive honour by the film community for something other than sets, costumes, and special effects? It seemed, without the later doctoring, that this may have had potential to be just that. Yes, it would have been a more mature superhero film but I don't think that is neccesarily a bad thing. We had that with the first Batman movies and I am just saying it could be done even better if B vs S (with also a new title) worked. That is where Warner Brothers could excell if they only chose to. The film would have clout and staying power, unlike the later Batman trash. Ang Lee will probably give them competition in that regard with Hulk. I am assuming that Neil Gaiman's Death will be WB given its status as a Vertigo/DC character. If so, the corporates should look to that as the model to follow. Lets enjoy the special effects, sets, and fights but not at the expense of telling a tale. I want a superheroe film that not only gives us escape but could stir up discussions even for people not neccesarily fans of fantasy generally. This sounds like I am asking for a Batman made by Bergman....but why not?
If I'm mistaken in all of this Moriarty, please let me know. -
Could someone please help?
The page isn't loading properly and I can only read half of it and I DESPERATELY want to find out what the script is about. Could someone PLEASE email it to me?
montevino@hotmail.com
Thank whoever so much. -
Let me start out by saying that I never really liked Superman in the first place. He was simply too powerful. Compare him to other superheroes and he really comes up short. Superman is pretty much invulnerable to physical injury. He has super strength. He can fly. He can run faster than a speeding bullet. The only thing exceptional about him as a character is that he decided to fight crime rather than set himself up as Earth's overlord.
Superman has none of the flaws -- the humanity -- that make a character truly interesting. In fact, anytime I've been exposed to a Superman comic, I've almost invariably found myself pulling for his enemy, since said enemy has the deck stacked against him from the get-go. What's more American than rooting for the underdog? Dunno.
That said, I also have to say that these story ideas are asinine. At least as far as a Superman story goes. Why not take this story arc and make a few smallchanges to create a new franchise known as something other than Superman? It seems to me that that would be far easier than addressing the laundry list of problems that prevent this from being identified as American literature's most overrated hero. -
A few months ago, AICN had a script review of Walker's WORLD'S FINEST script, that I believe was probably called SUPERMAN VS. BATMAN. At the time, I wasn't too crazy about it: the plot seemed to be in the Batman movie continuity (ugh), and revolve around Lex Luthor bringing a cloned Joker back to life. Back when the first Wolfgang Peterson story popped up, I tracked down this script review and put a link to it in the talkback. By the time the Jude Law/Colin Ferrell news broke, my talkback post and the original story itself were inexplicably deleted from the site. I've never been able to figure out what happened. Again, at the time, I wasn't too crazy about what I read, but this review of the Abrams script puts things in a whole new perspective, and now it doesn't seem that bad.
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Ha... It would be even funnier if it were not so tragic. Word up on the comments above! This could very well be the 'Death of an Icon' in American pop culture. Mainstream comics themselves have by and large sucked for some time now, and leave it to Hollywood to kill off any juice the classic comic properties have in yet another medium like film with the same creative leprosy. We saw this in comics... big flashy artwork and no substance! Let's face it... even if the movie get's made as depicted here, it will no doubt employ a full gamut of CGI technological wizardry and look real cool. It might even be cool enough to make some of us go 'wow cool' in between our bouts of head shaking and laughing at the ludicrousness of the storyline. Maybe Peters and Abrams are just trying to motivate Christopher Reeve into some self-healing... I mean Superman IV was bad enough, but if Reeve ever reads this crap he's just GOT to fall out of his chair in a fit of hysteria. Do you believe in the healing power of laughter...
I happen not to be the ultimate purist... and while I did not like the greatly expanded Arwen role in FOTR, and I thought it was just bad taste to make one of the founding X-Men a teenager in the midst of the other otherwise adult original members and have his only contribution to the film be by way of frozen roses and doppleganger victimization, and while I think Kristin Dunst is a cutie but was nonetheless dissapointed by not being treated to the scarlet bombeshell version of Mary Jane and the though the wrong girl was thrown from the bridge and then saved instead of going splat and what not... some other recent film adaptations of long-time, classic, character based literary fiction had enough in the 'win' column beyond great effects that they won me over. While not fully perfect, the parts that were true to source were good enough to harken me back in my minds eye to some of the exhilirating glee felt so many years ago when what was old really was new. Come on WB... if you want to try and prove that it hasn't ALL been done before, you don't start with something someone else has already created... assholes. If you think you have such profound creatvity then come up with some original piece of shit to try and peddle on the masses! Don't flex your weak ass creative impulses in an effort to 'fix' what ain't broke and don't bank on the fucking idiots out there who will buy into the whole 'sign o' the times' updating and re-hashing of an established character bit. A new twist on something is what the comics and small screen are for cuz to some degree, you can always go back and fix it in another episode or issue. But screwing the pooch on a feature film franchise is pretty tough to fix... Hmmnnn... Batman, Highlander, ahh never mind... just go ahead and screw it up so we can say told ya so. Asses! -
Ok WB, gimme my plane fair, a place to live, money for food an a laptop for one month, and i'll give you your Superman script, then u can take this piece of shit you got now, and BURN IT.
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Sep 24, 2002 3:04:59 PM CDT
I loved The Matrix as much as anybody but I'm starting to re
by tarl_cabot
Warner bros:First you destroyed the Superman franchise in the 80's. Then you gave us Steven Seagal. Then you destroyed Batman and Leathal weapon(shoulda stopped at 1). Just because you landed The Matrix franchise doesn't mean you stop being inventive-inventive but not obscenely preposterous I should add. I fully expect T3 to suck ass.Why not do a Green Lantern instead? He's a cool character. One of the few DC guys that's actually interesting.Do something NEW! Forget Superman! It's been done already(and I don't recall those movies making gobs of money either). However, I do love the idea of epic battles involving Krypotonians with CGI shit galore but do it right if you must. please. And please cast a guy who reminds us of Superman-there's gotta be a construction worker or failed jock somewhere that could pull it off...don't give us some wimpy, effeminate actor who's too short and slight of build. Maybe there's an NFL player who could do it in the spring. Jason Sehorn perhaps? C Reeve always said the costume does the acting for you...
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One of the reasons why AOL Time Warner has DC is so it can take advantage of the comic book library for other revenues - movies, tv, books, etc. If you already own the rights to the stories - or even if they have to pay a licensing fee to a creator - why not just use the source story for the material? Fans could reel off hundreds of good storylines for Superman and Batman, not just the classics like Batman: Year One. Hell, I'd even go for the Byrne relaunch of Superman, at least he gave us an evil, morally corrupt Luthor.
And why is it that neither Warner Bros. or an outside producer hasn't developed an HBO show around a DC book? Episodic adult tales like Preacher, 100 Bullets, Hellblazer, etc, would be perfect for episodic tales, especially since HBO is in deperate need of another limited series given the slow-paced scheduling of Sopranos and Oz. And then there is the built-in audience of these books that could carry over to the HBO series. -
I get this far:
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First off if they Do make this Movie using That Piece of Snail Shyt Script Why not Get Ron Jeremy to Play Superman and Lex Luthor can be Played by None other than Jean Claude Van Damn ( Just think how Much The WB would make Just On these Actors alone =o| ) Get Real If they want to Make This Film I suggest They all Take Large Sum's of Cyanide Then What ever is Left the the wolves can Eat or Fukk or whatever.
I say Get Rockne S Obannon Writer and Co-Creator of Sci-Fi's Farscape to Pen the Storyline Along with M Night Shyalaman and Kevin Smith to Write us Up a Decent Script. Hell if that doesn't work Get Me and a Few other People from this Message Board to Write up a Decent One Just take the one that is Evil and Place it on a Nuclear warhead Headed for Iraq Just destory it. -
If this trend continues, there will be a TRUE revolution in this country in popular culture.
A divide is growing between those who sit and take whatever gets shoveled into them by a well researched, well oiled machine of psychologists, marketing professionals, corporate executives and feedback loopers that sit around in tiny think tanks hoping to guide the behemoth of American culture through reports in Acedemic Journals and obsure theories on the publics reaction to their cyclical nonsense.
It's been going on for a while now, but people are regurgitating the bile that they are pouring down our throats. The endless care about nothing but the bottom line of a corporate stock price that relies on nothing but an artificially inflated value or the artificially enhanced Nielsen rating that is scientifically and digitally recorded to the last decimal to tell you exactly what you are supposed to watch and that the youthful culture of america is all that matters because our numbers say that it is so much easier to influence the young than the old who have corporate loyalty to their 'old established brand' that we might be hip and young and have well brandished shoes with tight young girls who do what we want when we want and flirt and fawn all over us.
Farscape watch the match.
This will be the Gasoline.
I am looking forward to their artifical recycled reguritation to drown in their own lies.
It will be fun. -
I could be wrong, but it seems with the treatment the studio has been giving the big screen versions of these generations old characters, that they not only are embarrassed by them, but they do not like the fans either. It seems that these are seen only as a way to make money, merchandise, that's the ticket! we don't care how awful the film is, we can make back triple the money with a Superman puch doll! Hey with several kryptonian villians, that's even more money. One would have thought that with the success of the Marvel comic films, that a big studio would stick to the formula of the comic book. That probably would have made The "Batman v. Superman" film work. But alas, why would you want to be true to the characters? Why not make a "Batman" where his parents do not die, and the Joker turns out to be his long lost brother looking for love he never got?
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Sep 24, 2002 4:29:22 PM CDT
Geeks: Don't get mad, get over on WB-let them pony up $150-$
by tarl_cabot
Actually this movie sounds like it could be a hoot-on a Saturday midnight showing 9 beers deep and a couple of bowls-but NOT until it runs it's course in regular theatrical release and banks around $23 Million total(kiddie money). ha ha ha! Fecking idiots! Let them make their "Cutthroat Island" and feck themselves royally.
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Sep 24, 2002 4:54:23 PM CDT
Does anyone have a gun so I can go shoot the WB execs and Abrams
by nightwing415
Seriously, they need to be shot.
Maybe FOX and Columbia should ban together and seize control of WB the way the U.S. wants to attack Iraq. -
I completely agree with an earlier talkbacker that said Shyamalan would definitely be the best filmmaker for a Superman project. He'd treat it with the respect, emotion, and reverence it deserves. The climaxes of UNBREAKABLE & SIGNS left me in tears with the sheer emotion it got out of me. Just give it to Shyamalan & get the fuck out of the way! Sadly this will never happen as he would want total control and Peters would want to fuck it up at every turn.
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Sep 24, 2002 5:31:29 PM CDT
I like SUPERMAN, not a big fan, but I like him...and I know a ba
by sharondeitz
This idea just reeks. Abrhams can do better. He's a good writer. But I'm afraid it's back to the drawing board, Mr. Horn. Do everyone a favor. Keep Jon Peters away from the project. Of course, we all know you won't.
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While, for a Superman movie, this is just the be-all and end-all of shitty ideas....you know something? This script would be PERFECT for the Dragon Ball Z flick. I mean, dead-on spectacular.....its dumb enough to be on par with the TV show, would actually elevate it in terms of seriousness, its got the right amount of action and outright insane fights and plot twists....i mean put it in this light....in Mori's plot synopsis here, replace all references to Superman with Goku, replace Ty-Zor with Vegeta, Jonathan kent with Master Roshi, Jimmy Olsen with Krillin, Krypton with Planet Vegita, the Jor-El in "heaven" with King Kai, Lois Lane with Chi-Chi.....and as for Lex Luthor, well...um....er....eh...well, you know you could...um...uh.....mm....shit....no matter HOW the fuck you slice it, that thing's a bad a idea....never mind, just scrap it, forget it...you suck, Abrams...you....just....suck.
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...! A one-armed chimp with a cigarette could come up with something better than this. Wow. As if we didn't have a clue about what Warner execs think of their own property, Mori shines the light on this travesty. Sheesh.
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When I found my old "Lois and Clark" pencil tin today, I was pleased to hear this update of the upcoming movie. Then I read the review... from what I've gathered, after the movie is released, GAP are gonna buy some Superman-shares and get whoever will play Superman to get into the suit and dance along to funk music to promote Gap. But that's just me trying to lighten the mood.
Now, citizens, we have a problem. If we all work together, we can make Hollywood crack and make us the movie we've been waiting for for about 2 decades. I'm actually planning to get into the movie biz and make a decent Super-movie. And hopefully this proposed movie won't have been made by the time I finish Film-course in college (or University, if you will) so what I am proposing is we find some people here who know enough mythology to team up and write a screenplay that will embarrass even Jeph Loeb or WB.
Now, I know you're thinking "this kid is a nut job, I'll get going with my life now" but seriously, I think the best script will come from actual Superman fans. I'm one of them. I've started a script (mail me for more or if you're intrigued by my plan). I think that everyone here who loves Supes as much as I should devote a little time to write a script, copyright it (or not), register t with Writers Guild Of America and send it to WB. Don't call me crazy just yet... collectively, we know more about Superman than WB can handle, so if we all write a script and send, they'll like at least one of them enough to atleast give the lucky tyke position of creative consultant (since they're probably too cheap and dim-witted to get one for this current planned farce) and basically the idea is, even if the resulting script sucks, we will have a better movie than the farce that is reviewed here. (No offence to JJ since there are a coupla decent scenes).
And what does everyone think about casting? Laugh if you will, but I think Alyssa Milano as Lois, George Segal as Perry, Ethan Embry as Jimmy and Billy Zane (with old-looking make-up) as Luthor. And on and on... I'd like to hear other people's view on story ideas and casting so e-mail me since my friends all seem to be Marvel freaks...
(Please... I get so lonely...)
And since I cried after that review, I'd like to make an indie Superman movie if anyone's interested in helping since more people may come see that than the current JJ draft.
To infinity and beyond... -
Your integrity has been shattered by a Jerry Bruckheimer wannabe hack who doesn't care about Superman or its fans and just wants to appeal to the Matrix crowd; who is seemingly unaware that Superman might just have a huge fanbase of its own. Please hire a writer who gives a shit about Superman. Otherwise, you're just going to be adding another godawful movie to your already long, long list.
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How is there Kryptonite if Naboo.. err Krypton doesn't explode? Explain that one Abrams! MY GOD! NOT only does this script suck loads and loads of crap, it doesn't even make sence!! I can live with the other supermen attacking, but you first have to blow up the planet, make me care about Clark, and put Lois back at the daily planet, it was LANA that Clark meet when he was young, at that was in HIGH SCHOOL!!! It doesn't even look like they read the comic, seen the movies, or generally gave a shit about superman to write this sack. I want to see Darkside, Lobo, or Lex as there ORIGNAL VILLIAN SELVES! how much drugs were you on when you though Lex would be cool as a kryptonian?? thats like making Spiderman with wings or having Prof. X walk. Its stupid, doesn't make any sense for the fans, and has nothing to do with the 50 YEARS OF THE SUPERMAN LEGACY!
If this movie sucks, it will not surprise me... yet another failure by 50-60 year old suits that think shitty ideas are "cool" and "hip" **think of your parents saying those words when you read them**
I have so many things upsetting me about this goddamn thing I can't control my thoughts... all of it, even the good stuff is CRAP! you have to have it all right if you want it to work. A great 2 min montage IS NOT going to save this movie. Espeically if theres 50+ pages of Matrix/superman Flying crap.
this is how superman fights:
punch, guy flies into wall.
laser eyes, guy is burned to death.
NEVER NNNEEEVVVEEERR should we ever see Superman do a fighting style. HE DOESN'T NEED ONE! HE IS FRICKING SUPERMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
This sounds like another Queen of the Damned ... recreating something that was great to begin with and making it into crap. Let's hope the powers that be resist the temptation. (I didn't pay to watch Queen despite being a rabid Anne Rice fan and I won't pay to watch something like this either.)
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The almighty dollar rules. That's why all entertainment is becoming Junk Food for the brain... think about it - listened to the radio lately? The same indistinguishable crap on every station in America... 'cause they're all owned by the same 3 companies (who think everything should sound like Creed). Watch TV lately? Let's see... American Idol - crap. Survivor - crap. Anna Nicole Show - insult to humanity. Mainstream movies? Or do I mean FRANCHISES?? Wait, isn't "franchise" a word we use to describe Fast Food restaurants? Meaning the same crap recycled over and over again, because they've found the FORMULA for what people "like". All driven by $$$$$$$. And it won't stop until it ceases to be profitable. Face it - we live in a country where Britney Spears and Carson Daly are rich and famous... and we're surprised by all this?
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Jesus Christ, WTF is this?
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The reason Spidey worked is that they treated the original material with a great deal of respect. WB simply has no respect, and therefore deserves none.
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it's very disheartening to read something like this when just a few days ago we found out that another studio picked chabon to adapt spiderman. talk about extremes. chabon is someone who not only understand comic mythology, but respects and embraces it. whatever superman, i'll be waiting for the amazing spider man and escapist.
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I think Abrams is a good writer and they're alot of good bits in it. But I hope this doesnt get made. I ask that Abrams keep the good parts and rewrite it, the way he thinks it should be and not listen to Peters who has ruined movies before
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...Superman, only remixed by The Matrix, Independence Day, and The X-Files, with a little Lifetime TV for texture? Mein gott, they sure as hell better re-write this thing before it sees production, or else we'll have the biggest load of crap on our hands since Batman and Robin. How's THAT for a "Prophecy"??
It wouldn't be SO bad if it wasn't so blatant...The final battle is ID4, no doubt about it...The resurrection scene is THE MATRIX ('So you see, you can't die!')...And then we've got Lex Mulder running around...Good god. -
Seriously. Look, I'm looking forward to the MATRIX films as much as anybody. I can't wait to see them. I'm a movie fan from way back, my friends know I'm jonesing for another hit of Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, and the lot. But, if something isn't drastically changed by the time MATRIX RELOADED comes out? Boycott the opening weekend. I'll still see it, I'll even see it in a theater. I'll just go Monday. Fuck with the numbers in such a catastrophic way that they have to listen. Krypton doesn't explode? WHERE THE FUCK DOES KRYPTONITE COME FROM? Lex flies? Are you fucking kidding me? The reason the Lex/Supes rivalry works is that Lex flat out KNOWS MORE than Superman does. He manipulates him. On some level, Superman even knows he's being manipulated, but he underestimates Luthor because he knows that one thump of his finger and Lex has a good idea what the dark side of the moon looks like. But he's definitely human. I know I'm pretty damn far down the TB list with this one, but here's the juice, WB. If you don't fix this, and fix it right, I will not see THE MATRIX RELOADED opening weekend. I'll wait till Monday evening. Hell, it might even be better that way, no asshole audience members. I want to see MATRIX RELOADED pretty damn bad. But this is more important then that. Superman is the one True American Icon. And you're flushing it away. Someone PLEASE take a pen away from these fucks before they poke themselves, and us, in the eye with it. Nordling out.
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This is a joint collaboration between my roommate and I. I originally read the article and as soon as my roommate returned home, forced him to read it. Why would anybody want to change up the legacy of superman? The whole krypton war and no explosion, that's bullshit. They need to stick with the story and just try to be a little more creative. As two very loyal fans of Smallville, we feel the story there hits home. The story line is as close to the comic books as any mass-media creation has been thus far. Smallville has a wonderful, wonderful thing going for it, and with its continued growth and success, why would a big budget film do anything BUT mirror a Smallville type storyline? So, if by chance any big name producer gets wind of this comment, suck on your script. Its a disgrace to fans, moreover, the entire human race.
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Okay - we've had two or three decades worth of martial arts flicks. But I reckon that the whole Matrix/Crouching/Once Upon a time in ... style of kung fu that seems to be in every single goddamn Hollywood movie at the moment is getting mighty tired, mighty quick. I hereby predict that a Superman who just dukes it out, a la barroom brawling (albeit on a bigger scale) will be a shitload more entertaining than sky-based wire-fu.
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Sep 24, 2002 7:50:20 PM CDT
This is beginning to sound like the cluster fuck of ALL TIME.
by reverseosmosis
Hey...maybe Abrams will get his Alias cast into it, so we could have Michael Vartan as Supes, Jennifer Garner as Lois, and Victor Garber as Lex Luthor. Sweet sassy molassy, I had to read this on the same day I found out about Gladiator 2 and Nicole Kidman in Bewitched. Sigh, the life of a geek.
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Sep 24, 2002 7:56:49 PM CDT
Alan Horn, JJ Abrams, Brett Ratner and John Peters are The Four
by johnnytremaine
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First, I don't even like the Superman mythos, and it's storylines over the years have been indicative of the general lack of spine in the DC head offices.
That said, if this script as it stands gets green-lighted, the only rational solution will be to burn all houses of all the people involved, to the ground, with the guilty parties preferrably inside!
There is one simple rule to bringing a comic book to the screen: DON'T DIS the SOURCE MATERIAL. Tweak it? If you feel you must, but you run the risk of turning off the fan base you're relying on to make it a success.
The current "Spider-Man" is a perfect example; the films success can be directly attributed to the fact that they followed the rule. The Spider-Man story was another I never felt particularly compelled to follow, but when the movie took the pains to at least pay homage to the comic book, I was tickled every time they got it right. So I paid through the nose to see it more than once, and recommended to anyone who would listen.
The script Moriarty has? If it ever sees the screen, a POX on the house of WB! -
Seriously, if they want to use this script and make money, they should change the characters and make a Dragon Ball Z movie. Change Superman into Goku, Lex into Vegeta, and viola! You've got a movie that will rake in the cash! Just my opinion, but I think if they want kung-fu action in the air and superpowers they should go with DBZ.
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Why would she keep it and store it in her closet for 10 odd years? Next to Superman's presents. ha. Especially to forget about an alien telling her that she would have a super-son (oooh, shades of the Bible - the story of Jesus' birth, some pretentious loser thinks he's being really clever with that one). Slit your throat, JJ. =D
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NOTE TO BRETT RATNER: You are a rice king rat fuck. Everyone in Hollywood hates your ass. Your intolerable body odor is quickly surpassing your shitty films in terms of triggering gag reflexes in those forced to bear witness to both. Most importantly, the staff (and many of the customers) of Asanebo restaurant in Studio City CA (plug) wish you would disappear. The waitresses think you are repulsive (so you can quit sexually harassing them), the customers think you are a loud, obnoxious, graceless pig (and they are correct) and your sycophantic entourage of losers are almost as clueless as you are. Please do everyone a favor and kill yourself. But take a shower first. Even LA coroners have a sense of smell.
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WB do not make this movie. But seriously why should we be surprised from the people who turned Batman into Mermaidman and Barnacle Boy.
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I could not write a decent talkback about this until I had a day to let it sink in. Well The suck factor has really sunk in and I hope that this abomination is not made. And if it is made, I hope it cost $400 million to make and ends up making Pluto Nash money so they will just go out of business. I would be more entertained by watching the board meeting that came up with this utter shite than watching this movie. And I am still trying to figure out why Jimmy Olsen is gay. What does it have to do with the story? And here's a good idea, lets not let Krypton blow up. HELLO! Every person alive today has grown up with Krypton blowing up. It is not a disposable fact. It is legend. This is like someone writing a script about Thor and deciding, he doesn't use a hammer, he uses a boot instead. I mean it just isn't done. Well, it looks like the shoe is on the other foot now. Marvel movies sucked in the 80s and early 90s while DC movies rocked and now my beloved Marvel movies have opened up a can of WHOOP ASS on DC movies in the 00s (that sure looks weird). One more thing about this movie. I am reminded of a quote spoken by the 90s most elequent poet, Butt-Head -- "STOP IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT WHICH SUCKS!" I think that sums it up about this script.
The Belt Has Spoken. -
Sep 24, 2002 8:33:28 PM CDT
IT'S TIME WE STAND UP FOR SUPERMAN. WE MUST RALLY AGAINST W
by clark clay
Superman has inspired all of us. He has captivated us. He has taught us decency. It's time we stand up for him. We must rally against Warner Bros. and its screenplay. They are perverting the sacred history of our greatest hero. We can't let this happen. Complaining on the internet is not enough. We have to protest in mass. Flood Warner Bros. with letters and e-mails protesting this atrocity. We must stand up for him. Superman has been our hero, a moral compass, the most reliable of friends. This is for real: LET'S FIGHT FOR HIM!
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I haven't read the talkbacks to see what others have said, but there is a solution here. Make this movie, but change all the names. I wouldn't mind seeing this story, and this kind of action. I just wouldn't want the name Superman attached to it. sure, there would have to be other changes, but this would give guys like Jon Peters the blank slate from which he could design whatever costume he wanted, or make any character or robot or whatever gay. Besides, how could they call the first movie "Last Son of Krypton" if Krypton is still around? But I think things aren
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Sep 24, 2002 8:42:55 PM CDT
Short & Sweet: WHAT THE HELL!? DO NOT DARE TO MAKE THIS SCRIPT.
by jasher78
Do NOT make this movie. Travesty. TRAVESTY!!!
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The glory old days of Hollywood is past. Old Hollywood movies made good and great movies from time to time, but has since churned out some awful crap in the last 20 years. The 70's was the last decade when there was unrestricted artistic freedom with little or no concern of financial risk (such as The Godfather I and II, Chinatown, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Jaws, Close Encounter of the Third Kind, Apocalypse Now, Being There, etc). Time have changed and Hollywood of the 1990's is disgraceful. There have been too few recent films that mark the reason for going to the movies and too many crap that make one a former moviegoer. My mother seldomly go to the movies nowadays because she said there havn't been any good movie worth seeing that isn't formuliac and condescending. She have not seen LOTR: FOTR nor does she care. I go to the movies just to watch foreign films nowadays, and that's just at arthouse theaters. The best film released in the North America this year is Y Tu Mama Tambien. A.I. and Spirited Away are the best movies of last year - because these films are considered artistic truimph that the intelligent moviegoers (those who CARE about top-notch filmic quality) can enjoy. The current Superman debacle exposes the current mindset of Hollywood as greedy and megalomaniacal without rationale and regard for the consistent and sensible quality in films. All we get are throwaway and forgettable fluff movies in suspense, drama, comedy, animation, action, science fiction and horror. Hollywood don't care as long as it make profits from shitty movies dropped in megaplex theatres and will continue to make shitty movies for the stupid and ADD-afflicted audiences who could care less about quality as long as the movies they watch make them forget the bad days as escape from reality. I check out older movies on DVD and videotapes to discover the underrated and unheard-of classics like Hal Ashby's Being There. Films like that will NEVER be made in Hollywood at this present time - because major studios don't like to take financial risk giving modest budgets to proven directors who can make movies from unique screenplays (there's Wes Anderson, Darren Aronofsky, Spike Jonze, etc but that's another story) and the studio executives care what matters the most - profitability. They don't care about artistic expression. All they know is formuliac dramas and cliche-ridden bang-bang-boom action and hip teen horror movies that they want to greenlight as soon as the mediocre scripts are turned in so they could make profits from young moviegoing masses comprised of age 15-24 demographic. I disclose that I am 23 and will be 24 on the day Gangs of New York is released in theaters. I will not go to the movies to see Michael Bay/Jerry Bruckheimer/Jon Peters/McG/assorted hack directors/egomaniacal producers' movies. Hollywood is nothing but full of shit for the love of ego and money but I'll make exceptions for rare gems like giving Stanley Kubrick, Steven Spielberg and Terrence Malick creative freedom and dough to produce (IMO) cinematic masterworks Full Metal Jacket, A.I. and The Thin Red Line that the current Hollywood mindset would not dare approve were it not for the directors' reputation. Even Hollywood had the gut to greenlight James Cameron's Titanic and kept it afloat financially until it made several times the final budget (including marketing and film print costs) in profits. Enough of my rambling, Hollywood is dying creatively and it will do anything to make the profits by re-making already good movies and producing mindless tripe for mass consumption like McDonald's. Hollywood don't care what you want - they care about taking your hard-earned money you paid to see the movie that turns out to be a fluffy piece of shit or did not meet your expectation so you go home and rest and work the next day. What you pay is what made the inferior/hack producers and directors wealthy in the first place so they have the free reign to produce the shittiest movies possible to dump on the unsuspecting moviegoing masses as the last laugh. Consistent mediocrity may exist in Hollywood, but apathy and greed are the rules that can never be broken unless the audiences in the North America wake up, get angry and scream like Peter Finch in Network: "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!".
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"He played me! He played me like a puppet!"--Londo, Babylon 5, "Into The Fire." Mori--O.K., you're all gonna think I'm in denial or something after reading this review of this--this--"script." You're gonna say I'm just in shock and am not accepting the facts. Fine. So be it. But I refuse to believe that this script you're looking at is real. I think someone, inside WB or not it doesn't matter, leaked it to you just for a laugh, just to mess with your head or maybe to nail one of your sources inside to the wall. Because this--what you described is flat out INSANE. "Insane in the membrane, crazy insane, got no brain!" Christ, Bhudda and Mohammad on a *stick*--Krypton doesn't explode?! Martha doesn't design his costume?? Lex Luther is an ALIEN?? Earth is invaded by KRYPTON?!? Jimmy Olson is GAY?!?!? WhatEVER. I'm sorry but what fucking EVER. All it needs is a final showdown with Tetsuo from Akira or maybe a cameo by Bugs Bunny! Or BOTH. O.K., look--WB has done some stupid things in the past. Hey, all the studios have; no one's perfect. But do you really think they'd approve or even consider something like what you have described above? Not only screwing up his origin and thus alienating a large part of the movie-going public, but adding to the overwhelming risk of this batshit insane enterprise by requiring so many very EXPENSIVE SFX?? Oh god, O.K., I'm babbling, but Mori, everyone--I don't believe it. I just don't fucking believe one damned word. It's not the first time after all that you guys have been sent fake-ass practical joke scripts, right? RIGHT?? I think this is one of them. Warner Brothers CAN'T be this stupid and still remain in business. All of their execs would have to be chuggin' down the blotter acid like there was no tomorrow to go with this thing. I ain't buyin' it. I think it's fake. I WILL THIS TO BE FAKE, GODDAMMIT.
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Taking the piss is sometimes funny, and sometimes it's not. Change the gif.
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This will not get made in this form,and that is a guarantee. I have several good friends at WB, and the version Mor. got is a very very rough draft. I have seen it, and it is on par. I am a Superman fan, the script stays true. There has been a rewrite.
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The most suprising part, the following day that I forwarded this review to some friends of mine, one of them find a news through a brazilian source saying the director is really excited about J. J. Abrams script.
Please, I hope they don't use this script, even with 1/3 of the movie would be a bomb...
I love J. J.'s work on ALias, but this script is simply unberable,.
COuld someone tell those WB exec that before having a francise they should at least have a first succesful movie??? -
It is obvious WB needs some new people inserted to shake things up. First, a Superman movie is going to make huge boxoffice no matter what they shoot, so why not do it right? Hire the guys that have proven to get it right, the writers/producers of Batman/Superman Animated Series. Let them write the first draft, then get a great screenwriter to polish. Hire a real director, someone with a strong visual sense and ability to shoot action, like Fincher, or Verhoeven, or wait till the Wachowskis wrap Matrix. And for the sake of making more money, get a creative exec in there, someone in charge of all the DC properties. Someone that knows the shit inside/out, why it works, and what aspects of the properties to exploit when translating it to the big screen. Superman: The Movie got it right. Hire someone that knows why people love Superman, and your other characters that are long overdue for bigscreen exploitation.
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This could work as an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE or PARALLEL WORLD plotline. No harm then. Josh Hartnett will play Superman the Younger and Bruce Campbell will be Superman the Mature. Robin Williams could play Lex Luthor. I was a huge DC fan in the late 50s and early 60s but continued to read a lot of DC even as I converted to Marvel during the 60s. To this day, I read both. BATMAN is by far the best thing DCd ever came up with. X MEN was Marvel's best effort. Too bad the X MEN movie couldn't have stayed closer to the source material, but it wasn't as bad as, say BATMAN AND ROBIN or THE PUNISHER.
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Well, the WB sucks. They have this bad habit of ruining everything superheroish, Batman and Robin anyone? Who in their right minds aproves of scripts like that. And now they're gonna do it agian. OK, for the record Smallville is stupid. It's not a good show and it RUINS everything superman is. But at least his planet blew up. I mean for the love of bob people! I could pull a better Superman script out of my toilet.
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Turn it into a Dragonball movie and you've got a hit. But Superman? Um, no. I still don't think this is real, though. Toppu o Nerae!
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It's blatantly obvious that no one at Warner Bros. knows the slightest about how to make a movie about superheroes. They let that idiot Schumacher fuck up Batman and now they want to fuck up Superman. They need to get it through their frickin' heads that they don't have to "re-invent/re-invision/re-anything" the superheroes. Just give the audience (most of us who are familiar with the history of these characters, after all) what WE want, the superheroes the way they should be. OK, call me a purist, but I think Jor-El and Kal-El should be played by the same actor, Krypton should explode, Ma Kent makes the super-suit, etc... How fucking difficult is it to follow the documented history of Superman! My 17-year old twin sons and my 8-year old son could do a helluva lot better job than the clowns at Warner Bros. Maybe collectors of DC Comics need to band together, buy up AOL/Time/Warner, fire the idiots currently in the hot seats and put some intelligent people who understand the comics in their jobs!
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With all these movie people writing & re-writing these scrpts for some of our most well know hero's, giving them new & sometimes in this case, completely different origins, why do they even bother? I know some of those writers are famous, wrote a good script for some action or romance flick some time ago or what not. But why not let some of the people that write the comics a chance to make a movie version of some of the story lines in the comics? This way they would have something that would stay true to the comics & won't piss off the long time fan or the fan that is not so familiar with the hero's history. But everyone knows where Superman comes from... why are they trying to freak out the main fanbase of the character?
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Long time reader of this site, first time poster. You have got to be F**king kidding me! What a total bunch of bullshit. This is the most ridiculous hack on Superman I have ever seen. Oh well it will gobs of money at the box office but is it worth it? PLEASE DONT MAKE THIS MOVIE WITH THIS SCRIPT!!!! AHHHHH
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Sep 24, 2002 10:43:04 PM CDT
I think Abrams was doing mad libs and decided to turn one into a
by scythe1138
O GOOD GOD!!! Never in the history of written word has more awful a script been uttered! My nephew is five and he could write something that made more sense!!! This Superman film would make Superman IV look like Schindler's List!! My advice to J.J. Abrams: TAKE A BATH WITH A PLUGGED IN TOASTER!!!
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As I become more enrgaged by this "script," I also become more clear-headed. I decided to find out all I could about this Abrams fellow and what has been said about his "script" in the past... I stumbled upon a very interesting interview with him at [www.comicflicks.com/superman.htm]. It left me disturbed and confused... I urge you all the check it out, but a few of the things said warrant my posting here...
(All that follows are direct quotes from J. J. Abrams)
"...[A]s a kid I was the biggest fan. My three and a half year old son goes to bed almost every night wearing a Superman shirt."
"I think it -
Actually the story wasn't that bad. Just needs some tweaking. Lose the death storyline, just have him believed dead. Lose the oozing suit. Lose the prophecy. Lose the gay photog. You're almost there. Problem is, it isn't Superman. But if they tried to film it under someother name or otherwise tell the story people would just say it was a lousy Superman knock-off. So how do you tell a story like that without somebody gripping and complaining about it? You don't. You suck it up and put Supes' name on it because no matter what you do, some idiot is going to start a on-line petition to get it banned. How's this for a re-imagining. Instead of a natural phenomenon, Krypton is torn apart by civil war. Horrible weapons are created, such as sentient computers (Brainiac, Eradicator.) Super soldiers are cloned. (Doomsday.) A high tech brig is created to house military criminals (the Phantom Zone)A biological doomsday weapon poisons the planet as one side's last resort (kryptonite,) the other decides to blow it up (kryptonite on earth,) but not before a few people can get themselves, or their offspring off the planet. (Other kryptonians.) Two stories could be told simultaneously: the movie could start with the destruction of Krypton, one story following baby kal-el to his debut as superman. The other follows the final days of Krypton, and ends with the destruction of Krypton. Work in some eerie parallels between the two and you got yourself a movie, bud.
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It could happen.
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Sep 24, 2002 11:32:55 PM CDT
Sounds like an extensive re-write of the script to STAR KID and
by monkey_king
I say go with the Smith script and get it over with already or just film John Byrne's reworking of the SuperMan mythos from the 80's. At least it's not Brian Michael Bendis' revisionist crap.
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Sep 24, 2002 11:34:17 PM CDT
Phuck It, I Say Give Warners Our Blessings, Let Them Go Ahead Fu
by the founder
I mean really why complain, they aren't going to listen to us anyway. Let Warners dump 150-200 million in this project, but unfortunatly we may not be able to laugh in their face, because the Superman name alone will allow this rape @ss version to make some money. Granted they may not make Spidey's money, but I'm willing to bet that they'll get between 180-250 million domestically regardless because of Supes good name. Lets not forget to add in the international profit, and that'll be another 200-250 million, so Warners will have made a decent profit, not spidey money, but they'll get close to 500 million off Superman, and that will justify another sequel. I just don't see this film not making money unless the movie is so horriable that it pisses the phuck out of everyone, and word of mouth tanks it. We all know that Warners will pay off some critics to sing it high praise or at least say it's entertaining.
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Sep 24, 2002 11:42:29 PM CDT
Moriarity -- Don't Blame Abrams. Look At It -- This Has To B
by spacephil
You yourself said that every so often, it looks like Abrams knows what he's doing. I'm looking at your review, and I'm not seeing a bad writer -- I'm seeing a good writer who's had to deal with an endless amount of shit. Every so often, he's got the right idea -- the mountain scene, the Air Force One rescue, the opening's just plain amazing. But then he ends up jumping to some old trick or gimmick, in defiance of all canon or logic. Ask yourself this -- would any writer capable of pulling off the few good scenes in this script be fucked up enough to blow the rest of it ? No. Let's face it, half of this shit was forced down Abrams' throat, and ten to one it was Peters doing it. If I were you, I'd try and get in touch with Abrams -- if they're handing the rewrite to someone else, he should be officially off the project, right ? Get in touch with him. Find out what's going on with all of this. I'm betting he'll have something to say as the development process on this script. Do it, before he gets this whole mess on his feet alone and Peters and the rest of the clowns at WB go on their merry way. I mean, look at half the messages on the talkback -- people seem to be blaming him first and foremost. Come on. He might deserve better than that. Get in touch with him -- get him a chance to speak for himself.
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If there is a movie made that even begins to fuck with the superman mythology, there will be hell to pay, and if this movie based on the script idea we just read is made, no one involved will live to regret it for I will singel handely ship you stupid motherfuckers to one al queda caves so you can serve as bitches.
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If anyone from Warner Brothers is reading this, PLEASE listen to us.
We're the fans. Think about this. We ARE the people who will see this movie if it's made.
Look at the reaction this script review has gotten.
Please, WB, PLEASE don't make this movie. At least not with this script. PLEASE.
I just truly hope this review is of a script that has been massively retooled and changed and overhauled and all that.
People love Superman. They don't want to see a shitty Superman movie. And if this script is used, IT WILL BE A SHITTY SUPERMAN MOVIE.
Be smart about this. Look what happened with Batman and Robin. Don't kill the new Superman franchise before it even begins.
Don't change the history. You guys are fucking with the legend. If you're going to change everything, just don't use the name Superman. Come up with a new character, because what's the point of using Superman if EVERYTHING is going to be fucked with?
And PLEASE, if you take ANYTHING from this post, realize this: Just because stuff worked in The Matrix doesn't mean it has to be in EVERYTHING ELSE. -
Sep 24, 2002 11:58:44 PM CDT
"Superherohype.com" has confirmed that this is indeed the offici
by the founder
Ty-zor that Supes fights is his cousin, and Kata-Zor(or whatever)who's Ty-zor's father is Jor-el's brother. Well I guess it can get worse, and both Warners and Abrams is out to prove that they can go even further with the rewriting of Supes orgin. A sad day indeed, why oh why are they using Kryptonians as the villians, this is just a rehash of Superman 2. So are we to forget that those films ever happened?????? 10 bucks says that Warners will start phucking with DC to make them rework the comic to go alonmg with the movie.
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There seems to be something about Superman that causes insanity at Warner Bros. Take a breathe, give Tom Mankiewicz (sp?) a call and let him take a crack at it. At least it'll be something we could care about.
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I have an online petition going on. I just made it tonight. Once it has a respectable number I'll print it out and mail it (or e-mail it) to WB, please sign.
http://www.kalel.com/kryptongate -
Warner Bros. is not being rational about this, and I think that Corona summary pretty much tells the story. There is too much infighting and focus on merchandising and franchise, instead of pushing to make a smart, concise movie that gives people what they want. They're overthinking it and micromanaging their superhero projects to death. X-Men and Spider-Man have shown that if you remain faithful to the source material and trust the project to someone that is enthusiastic, understands the characters (DeSanto on X-Men and Raimi on Spider-Man) and a good storyteller, you will not just make a lot of money, you will make boatloads. So why try to reinvent the wheel with Superman? Why tweak Batman's origin? WB is missing out (and making the fans miss out - and we're angry about it, if you didn't notice) while Marvel dominates the superhero film market. What Marvel gets that WB doesn't is the fans are right - in fact they intrust their movies to fans of the characters. THE LASTING ABILITY OF THESE CHARACTERS IS A TESTIMONY TO THE IMPORTANCE OF THEIR ORIGINS. They have survived through generations, and have become a part of modern myth. Jon Peters is not a Superman or Batman fan. He doesn't understand the characters and never has. Peters just wants to see a version of them that HE influenced - he wants to twist the ideas to make him look more influential in Hollywood. Unlike Raimi or DeSanto (who helped Singer understand the X-Men) who want to make a movie out of a basic LOVE FOR THE CHARACTERS. Spider-Man wasn't perfect, and neither was X-Men, but there was respect there for what made the characters so well loved, and thus respect for the fans. WB SHOULD STOP FIGHTING WHAT MAKES PEOPLE LIKE THE DC CHARACTERS IN THE FIRST PLACE. The one thing I hope that comes of this whole mess is that their parent company sees how ineffective WB operates, and they fire a bunch of these executives and choose people that are open minded and creative and willing to take chances, not fighting for years to create the "perfect" product. The average moviegoer doesn't expect perfection out of a superhero movie, they just want to see some REAL enthusiasm and intelligence put into it. Warner Bros. can stop playing lip-service to the fans. Just give the fans what they want, because that is exactly what everyone else wants.
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Sep 25, 2002 12:16:28 AM CDT
I'm Just So Angry At Warners. Why Can't They Just Use Da
by the founder
Please Warners I can not stress enough the need not to use Kryptonians as the villians. it's been done before and good! Darkseid can give you what you want, and he has a host of agents that can take on Superman in terms of physical power, and LEX is a superman as well, WHAT THE FUCK???? I can even accept the cia character, but just not as LEX. LEX LUTHOR IS GREAT BECAUSE HIS INTELLIGENCE, AND CUNNING IS WHAT RIVALS HIM WITH SUPERMAN!! Warners please do not phuck with the orgin, Krypton must indeed explode from the very begininng, and not some trilogy where it's done later, WHICH I KNOW IS WHAT'S GOING TO BE DONE, IN FACT I CAN SEE THAT COMING A MILE AWAY, that is utter crap, where in the hell does Kryptonite come from???? Superman is loved by all, and the public does not hate him or fear him.
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If this script is put to the camera, it will kill the franchise more definitely than "Batman and Robin"No one will ever want anything to do with it ever again. No one will ever pay to see it, ever again. Those of you reading this, who are responsible for the Franchise will never work in the buisness again.
This mythology is one of the strongest ones that currently exists in american culture today. It is as close to holy scripture to modern americans as the Declaration of Independence, and the Bill of Rights.
It's straight Joseph Campbel, Better than anything Lucas has done yet!
A great father figure in the sky, out of a desperate last act of love, places his only son in a vessel and casts it to the fates. The child is taken in by simple folks and raised as one of their own. Suspicious of his heritage, his youth is turbulent and challenging. As he grows to manhood, he goes to the capitol city, and takes his place not as the ruler, but as our protector.
If J.J. Abrams is up to the task, and frankly, if you want my opinion few are, then he has to take this draft back and re-write and re-write again.
Please. Do not let the Abrams script live! -
I know they are rich studio exec's. But can't we just hire some one to wak these fuckers.
We only have to execute a few of them... then the rest will get the hint.
Oh I know it may seem over the top. Pleanty of people will say "It's just a comic book." "It's just a movie."
But try pulling this shit with Jesus Christ, Buddah, or Allah and see what happens.
Superman has 50 years of life put into him by 4-6 generations of Americans.
And I say fucking up the superman mythology on this level is just cause to take the life of those who think their creative vision outwieghs the history of the characters they are molesting.
In the words of Lieutenant Johnny Rico, "KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL!" -
WB should give superman a cod piece like they did batman. and maybe an extreme close up of the superass
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Sep 25, 2002 1:00:23 AM CDT
Dear WB: We saw Spider-Man because it was TRUE TO THE COMICS!!!
by optimus grime
Also, Brett Ratner shouldn't get the directing gig. He has said that "Superman would kill Batman" if their was a World's Finest fight. Um... Superman never kills ANYBODY! It's against EVERYTHING SUPERMAN STANDS FOR!
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I'm practically fucking speechless, but not quite since I'm writing, just like the 100 or so posts ahead of me. Let me get this straight: Krypton doesn't explode, the suit acts like Peter Pan's fucking shadow, and Lex Luthor is also from Krypton? So where does kryptonite come from if the planet didn't explode? Where's Lex's suit? Does Lex have a different letter with different parts that mean fear, anger and hatred? Why wouldn't Jor-el let Kal-el in on Lex's existence during their spiritual meeting when Jor-el tells Kal-el to get back in his body? You'll have to forgive me with all the questions, but I'm a prosecutor and spend time cross-examining people all the time, and THIS JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE.
NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT THESE DEVIATIONS FROM THE ORIGINAL STORY COMPLETELY UNDERMINE THE MYTHOLOGY, THE MEANING AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STORY.
I hope this gets made so WB goes under. Fuck them. -
this sounds like the biggest piece of shit i've ever heard. why even bother making a superman movie? just change the character's names and the suit colors, and make a completely original and separate franchise, since you're rewriting EVERYTHING!
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Look over this talkback. Was there even ONE serious post in favor of the new script as a Superman film? Not one. Regardless of how it was said, the message is still the same. Superman has a history that is important to the fans. Stick with the source material. Be true to the Siegel and Shuster motto of "Truth Justice and the American way". Then, we will go see your film.
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What makes this guy think he's so special. Sure, RUSH HOUR gave me a few chuckles. But suddenly he thinks he's MICHAEL FRIKKING MANN, trying to outdo the BEST HANNIBAL MOVIE THERE IS. DAMN HIM!!! NOW HE THINKS HE CAN DIRECT A CRAP SCRIPT OF SUPERMAN!!! DAMMIT!!!! WHERE'S ARONOFSKY AND YEAR ONE?!?! WHERE'S WOFLIE?!?! IS THERE NO DECENCY LEFT?!?! GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US?!?!??!?!?!?!
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I can't believe Warner Brothers and that fuck Ratner are actually using this script for Superman! What IS it with studios anyway? I agree that Abrams isn't at fault here.....the story he has concocted doesn't sound bad at all.....BUT IT SIMPLY IS NOT SUPERMAN! It sounds like a cool idea for a COMPLETELY NEW AND UNKNOWN superhero, not Superman! I'm not even a die hard fan of the Superman comics, but I do regard Superman II as the best comic book movie along with the first Batman (Spiderman was good but I just don't understand all the hype about it...it certainly was not an instant classic like some of you wackos claim it to be!). Anyway....if this movie is made as it stands now, it's going to piss off many millions of Superman fans to no end. Hopefully this predictable response will have the movie tank and WB will become bankrupt! Not likely, but at least hopefully some WB exec fuck will read this one sided response and call for a goddamn rewrite! Absolutely horrendous.
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Sep 25, 2002 2:24:56 AM CDT
They Are Going to make this crap, and go, "the audience will acc
by the founder
I don't even think Warners care about the fans.
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The whole wire-fu thing only works in the matrix, in The Matrix! When I see it anywhere else in an American movie, I instantly am taken out of the film. I don't know if anyone mentioned this (there are just too many posts!) but Jor-El talking Kal-El out of being dead because he is the "chosen one" is exactly what Trinity does with Neo. Neo dies, but Trinity convinces him that he can't be dead because he is The One from the prophecy. I think it works in The Matrix because Neo's entire character arc is the slow realization of who he really is, so when he truly becomes "the one" it is the end of his arc. The way it sounds in this new Superman script is that we have a fifteen minute delay that really doesn't have a whole lot to do with the plot. Anyhow, Warner Brothers read this: 1. Lord of the Rings, faithful to source material, makes a grip of cash. 2. Harry Potter, faithful to source material, makes a grip of cash. 3. Spiderman, faithful to source material, makes a grip of cash. I understand that you don't want to just remake the Donner version, but it shouldn't be that hard to kick off a trilogy of NEW Superman adventures that is basically faithful to the mythology.
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Is that this could be a really fun and interesting take on superheroes if only it weren't called Superman. It might even make a good "Elseworlds" type story in a comic. But to finally bring the world's greatest superhero back to the mainstream audience in this form is ridiculous. I can understand that the film-makers, as artists, may not be content with telling the same tired old story yet again; but when you say "Superman", people know the story. Now if it were me, my solution would be to skip the origin altogether. Everybody knows it, so just take it as read and get on with the new story. What you don't do is fuck it all up for all of us. Warners is just begging to lose money if they move ahead on this. It's nothing less than insulting.
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Come on, people! What the hell are you thinking?! The Flying Luthor has to go. I'm sick of studios running around with only on thought in their tiny little minds, "Change is good!". I can deal with the Naboo-alike planet. I mean, I can't tell you how many science fiction films I wish they would have just left on other worlds (i.e. Masters of the Universe {{why, oh why, didn't they keep it on Eternia...who actually wanted to see Teela eating fried chicken}}, and Beastmaster 2, ugghh!!!). But you're changing a carved in stone history, and a still being written present and are you even talking to people who eat, sleep, and breathe these stories and these characters, or are you just seeing special effects=money=asses in the seats?! You can get all that and still be true to the reason we like these characters in the first place. Stop trying to takeover time-honored favorites, or at the very least come up with a few original heroes of your own to apply these stories to. Is it a bad script? No. Is it a bad Superman script? Seems that way!
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Do you guys honestly think the WB execs are going to read these TBs. And even if they do they couldn't give two shits what fanboys think. I'm not saying that this is a good script! I agree with Mori and most of you wholeheartedly. This script is completely heinous. But the suits at WB have proven time and again that they are completely immune to logic and common sense. Unfortunately, I think all of our outrage and frustration will be in vain when this movie gets made and all the Vin Diesel loving, frat boy, Limp Bizkit retards make it a hit ("Dude! That new Superman movie is da bomb"), spawning 2 equally contemptible sequels. The future looks grim indeed...
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Actually the more I think about it the more I'm starting to agree with Noriko Takaya. This script has to be fake. It was either set up by some pranksters (NOT funny! Get a job and do something constructive with your time), or it was floated by WB to get reactions to some plot ideas they are considering. (If that's the case maybe they DO read TBs and give two shits about what fanboys think). I mean WB couldn't seriously be considering making this movie could they? For the love of GOD it said Gotham City!! It's a joke. It has to be a joke, right? RIGHT?????
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Okay, I could have used my time to sleep, or read "War and Peace" three times in a row, but instead, I read about half of the posts in this beast of a fan reaction, and here's the conclusion I've come to.
This is a horrible idea. Yes. Three hours of reading the half-articulated rantings from a truckload of weirdos that live in their parent's basements.
SOME fellows have said that they think this would be good if it wasn't Superman.
It isn't.
Hell, from the small bits and peices of script and story that moriarty posted, you can catch where this hack jacked 90% of his script from. Dragon Ball Z (fuck, I wouldn't be suprised if that kata-zor or whatever the fuck his name is turns out to have three diffent forms, each more powerful than the other. And that he sounds like a grandmother with a sore throat. Fuck, I was at least expecting superman to have a tail.
But that's not all he ripped from, as he's obviously trying to cash in on the Matrix's popularity by having superman, someone who really doesn't need to know kung fu, suddenly fight like he's some kind of neo wannabe. Don't forget the fucking prophecy/dead lead character, which reeks of trinity talking neo out of being dead in the matrix.
Hell, there's a list a mile long that he and even the fellows who created DBZ (Akira Toriyama) and the Matrix (the Wychowski brothers) ripped off to make their shit.
But that's not all. Contrived story ideas are bad enough, but they add insult to injury by ripping off of THE FUCKING COMIC BOOK ITSELF.
Why not have Darkseid destroy krypton, then send kalibak after him when he finds out superman's on earth? Wouldn't that make sense? Isn't that where he ripped that idea from?
If there has to be a trilogy, why not have him fly off to stop Darkseid?
But aside from the stupidity of the script, there's the fact that the folks running the WB have obviously been living under a rock, since they so easily forget how much money Lord of the Rings, Spiderman, X-Men, Blade, Harry Potter, and others have made, as well as HOW LITTLE Godzilla, Batman and Robin, Howard the Duck, Steel, Tank Girl, Judge Dredd, Beast Machines, TMNT 2 and 3, and Highlanders 2, 3, 4 have made. They must be insane.
And yes, there are many, many contradictions, and revamps, and elseworlds stories that tell us there isn't any continuity to Supeman. Right. Think though. Through all the shit storms, a few things, the more important ones, made it through all of it. Superman is good. Lex Luthor is rich, and bad, and HUMAN. Superman loves Lois. Krypton exploded.
Anyone knows that. People who dislike or hate or don't care about superman know that.
And changing that on film is a fuckload different than frank miller writing a special miniseries about Batman in his 50's.
It isn't taking someone elses' creation, and then completely working it over with a baseball bat and a meat cleaver, then representing that raped creation to a wider audience than the comic could ever see in a million years. Would you want someone to take your legacy, and change it so drastically that it in no way resembles what it was supposed to be? Would you want your name slapped on that literary trans-gender operation? I sure as fuck wouldn't.
And keep these films in mind, dumbfucks who think that we'll all be in line to watch this when it comes out:
Batman and Robin, Tank Girl, Steel, Howard the Duck, Highlanders 2,3, and 4, the last two TMNT movies, and a host of other bullshit fluff that was re-packaged and "re immagined" for a hip new audience. Those prove that you're going to be the only dumbasses who don't have to wait in line, or even pay to see the movie, as they'll likely have to pay you to go watch this festering blister.
This isn't something minute, like superman using a piece of his ship to reflect his heat vision and burn off his facial hair, or Spiderman having a sharper sense of humor, it's AN ENTIRE FUCKING CONTINUITY WIPED CLEAN.
Hell, this is worse than buying the name "Godzilla" and slapping it on that pile of shit with the big green iguana.
You want more proof this is going to turn out badly?
The transformers had a surge in popularity when Beast Wars began showing on syndicated telivision. Why? Because it pleased older fans with it's refrences to the original transformers, and obvious care put into the writing. When that became big, they switched the writing team, and Fox kids bought the show, turning it into Beast Machines, where they decided that they were going to "Re invent" the transformers for a new generation. It was a moderate success (meaning it didn't do as well as beast wars), and the head writer, Bob Skir, has had to cancel SEVERAL botcon appearences because of DEATH THREATS from transformers fans. And that's just a smaller franchise, one that's only been around for 20 years.
Think what would happen if this superman movie gets green lit, which I almost want to happen, just so I can watch the apocalypse come, and Jesus return to the earth.
Sleep now. It is good. And I need it. -
Can somebody PLEASE ram a 747 into JJ Abrams' house? I will pay for the fuckin' gas myself! Sweet Jesus Christ almighty. How do these guys make it out of third grade? And the real kicker is that people are - get this - SERIOUSLY discussing how this abortion could still work. See what happens to America when a Republican gets elected President? Oh wait. He wasn't elected. My bad. Abrams and Peters must be castrated if they aren't already. Have a nice day!
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I Dare WB to make this flic base on this script. I wanna see how bad it can be...but knowing that it will be made based on this shitty script...I won't go to see it in a cineplex, I'll probably catch it on a pirated video or DVD.
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the Heros Reborn sotry arc in for Marvel? Maybe it is okay for a the comic, being the source material anyway, to reinvent an origin, but a movie is not allowed? Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of problems with this script, but there are shards of nice storytelling in there. I know that Supes is iconic, so making wholesale changes is something that has to be carefully considered, but maybe updating a story isn't such a bad idea...
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Sep 25, 2002 6:24:34 AM CDT
After the film, WB will probably turn this material into a music
by elliott ness
Just like they did with Batman. It will feature a dancing Polar Bear Ensemble and a singing gay R2D2, after which the fate of the world decided by a tap dance contest between Supes and Brainiac. Marvel, eat your heart out!
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I suggest you all do the same...
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It sounds like a very good idea. Do you have the e-mail address?
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Can't you see that this guy's just toying with us?
This isn't the real script. It can't be.
No way he'd let the real sript out this early. -
HAHAHAHAHAHH! We must start a geek assassin team, wouldn't that be comedic? I would love to have Mr. Peters living in fear of his own premature death, that would make a great action figure. I encourage everyone to write their own Superman script summary, if just for their own peace of mind. Also, if you're a man of faith, pray to whichever God you believe in that Peters is fired soon. My 50 year-old dad couldn't get through more than half of this script review, he said they must have been on drugs, and that is their audience, people like him who've never read the comics but know better. Think 'TOMB RAIDER: THE MOVIE'. My brother was in stitches laughing. Even if it was an exec that made it suck so thoroughly, Abrams is responsible for re-writing to take money for it. B.Ratner is a big, fat wigger! The shit has been stirred, the job is done. You know, this is close to being an all-out war...
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Why is B.Ratner getting so much work in Hollywood? I refuse to believe the LA film industry is is so wanting for directorial talent that two extremely noteworthy projects--Red Dragon, and Superman--have been handed over to someone whose films ooze mediocrity with every conventional, commercial-grade camera shot. Ratner's films stand on a knife's edge between barely tolerable and unbearable, and not a single one of his projects has ever made me want to see it again. Family Man? Mildly humerous, saved only by Nick Cage. Rush Hour 1 and 2? Neither was a tour de force actioner, each barely succeeding in providing few mild chuckles and not a smidgen of suspense. I am not even going to bother watching Red Dragon--the previews were enough to establish it as the ugly step-child of the Thomas Harris trilogy, despite the top-notch cast. And Superman? This American pop-myth is being handed to someone whose only notable accomplishments are off the screen: that a no-talent hack can land tentpole projects without the requisite talent or vision normally reserved for a studio's marquee movie. His work would be best exhibited on soap commercials. And finally, the script. Let's just say I have had more pleasant reading experiences scanning a shoe catalog whilst voiding my bowel on the allmighty porcelein god. I have read more involving Disney early reader books to my toddler son than this sub-adolescent script. Studio execs: don't let this Abrams fool write the script, he doesn't know Superman from shi-nola.
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Okay, so it sounds pretty bleak, but big deal. Things have been at least as bad during the formation of other superhero film properties. At one point during the period when Kevin Smith was attached to this project, Superman was supposed to fight a giant spider and Braniac was to fight polar bears. (Not Smith's idea, by the way.) And the liquid suit? It couldn't be any more ridiculous than the mysterious Spider-man suit that suddenly appeared out of nowhere to a perpetually broke Peter Parker.
This script has a few good elements, and I feel sure that is all that will make it to the screen; A few elements. Any script-writer is living in a fantasy world if they think a script that they sell is going to make it to the screen exactly as written, and surely this is no exception.
Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and this script will just be a starting point. -
Sep 25, 2002 9:07:14 AM CDT
Mr. Chuff, sending this talkback to Jon Peters is a waste of tim
by kingkrypton
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Sep 25, 2002 9:07:14 AM CDT
Mr. Chuff, sending this talkback to Jon Peters is a waste of tim
by kingkrypton
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HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!! It's mine!HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!! If you wanted someone to write and destroy one of the most recognized characters in history they should have let me do it. What the hell is that? The planet doesn't explode then doesn't that mean any Krpytonian can be Superman? Did Marvel put him up to this cause this is one of the best practial jokes ever.HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!! Kung-fu in midair! This looks like a job for, GOKU!HaHa
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Sep 25, 2002 9:11:00 AM CDT
Mr. Chuff, sending this talkback to Jon Peters is a waste of tim
by kingkrypton
The man can't read. Seriously. He cannot read. He has to have scripts read to him by his assistants. Sending this to him won't do any good, because he won't be able to read it. If you want to send this talkback to anyone, it should be to WB head honchos Barry Meyer and Alan "I picked Peters over M. Night Shyamalan to make SUPERMAN" Horn and to WB exec Richard Parsons. Those are the people you need to target, otherwise you're just wasting your energy.
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Take out the Naboo/Krypton not blowing up, Lex being an alien/CIA Agent, and dead Supes, and you may have a piece of crap.
Right now it definitely is hippopotamus shit. -
I genuinely think the script sounded really good-lets reinvent the thing rather than regurgitate Donner's film (a classic). There is no real continuity:
1) The Kents died originally
2) Luthor used to be a mad scientist
3) Superman used to be far more powerful
4) Lois never knew who Supes was
etc.
Everyone seems to think the John Byrne version from 1986 is sacred. -
who thinks Smallville is the most dull, pedestrian, X-Files-lite approach you could take with the Supes character, I think this script borders on genuine cash-fuelled insanity. I'd almost like to see them make it, just so Warners can die the horrible death they've been promising us for the last decade (without any 3rd act rebirth to hope for). At least then in the future a studio worth wiping my fetid ass on would get their hands on these properties. On the one hand, Superman is, quite simply, one of the most set-in-stone, beloved mythologies of the last century. On the other, Warners are a bunch of pitiful hacks, and now Kubrick is dead I'd be surprised if they ever made a truly great film again. I mean, Jesus! I knew Supes was supposed to carry a curse... Only now do I realise exactly what this means...
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Come on guys grow up. Superman is reinvented all the time in the comics why not accept this treatment. Lex Luthor went from buffoon to President of USA (maybe not much of a leap that). This film will end up being what the next generation regard as the definitive Superman myth and the comics will change their continuity to fit it.
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Wow, I was wondering why the reports kept getting cut-off, but I think it is simple to blame this five-plus year old technology of the "Talkback" software. It keeps adding content to the page and I think there must be some kind of kilobyte limit setup, because it continues to eat up the actual report! Crazy, but it makes a half-assed kind of sense. On Superman - Let Warner Bros. make, they enjoy losing money. Then again, the Matrix movies are going to save their asses again like the original did for Wild Wild West back in '99, so this is a neverending battle to be sure. Superman having a "venom-suit" makes me a sssaaaddd panda.
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Whether the script is real or not, we still need to raise total HELL over it just in case there's the slightest chance that the people at Warner will get their heads out of their asses. Admittedly, we have about as much chance of success as Matthew Broderick and Morgan Freeman at the end of GLORY, but nevertheless, it's time to fight the fight. This isn't some minor squabble about Hal Jordan we're talking about. This is about something that could ruin a character and a company for decades, maybe forever. Maybe I'm engaging in hyperbole, but I don't give a crap. The fantastic success of SPIDER-MAN versus the total disaster that was BATMAN AND ROBIN is all the evidence we need.
Let's let Warner, DC, Abrams, and Peters have it. -
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THOSE WB PUKES DOING???!!! THIS HAD BETTER BE A JOKE!!!
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Never once have I felt compelled to join the "Talk Back" forum, until today. This treatment of Superman is proof-positive that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas. Now, I cannot say I've ever watched more than 4 minutes of Smallville, but, in the spirit of recycling storylines it seems to make infinitely more sense to bring "Smallville's Superman" to the big screen (and with it, both a strong fan following and a Gen X, Y and Next appeal). The very idea of Krypton never facing the ultimate catastrophe runs counter to the Superman mythos. I'm not even remotely a Superman fan, but I believe Hollywood ought to be ashamed of themselves.
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...Or perhaps WB isn't as dumb as they look (after all they did, bring the Matrix and Spiderman to the cinema)....
Perhaps, inded, this may be their inexpenisve way of conducting market research.
Most of the readers (if not all) of this site are well-schooled in sci-fi lore; what better way to focus-group their concepts than conveniently leaking scripts to the certain circles?
(....from the "Things that make you go 'Hmmm....' vault-- with apologies to Arsenio...)
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Maybe they're monitoring their own discussion boards. Late the hate flow at http://boards.warnerbros.com/web/wbus/topics.jsp?board=WB+Movies
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and yeah, it still sucks. I just can't believe how wrong Abrahams got it. I mean, it's Superman for Christ's sakes. SUPERMAN! How do you get Superman wrong? By the way, I'm still going ahead with my own version of the movie, which will have nothing to do with this atrosity. Again, let me know if you guys have any ideas.
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I have to wonder if some of you people are on something or off something. That would be wretched.
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There is no way they would ever get away with making a movie this terrible. I just refuse to believe they would change the storyline this much after seeing how much people loved Donner's version. I know "Batman and Robin" was terrible, but it would have taught them a lesson. If this is the script, the movie wont be made. I do not believe this is the script.
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I think what you said is completely right. We don't want to see a greatest hits film-lets see a new story. Lex Luthor probably had hidden powers all along like Clark Kent-it's just they were hidden from the reader as well.
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Warner Bros if you are reading this board ignore the unimaginative comic geeks and stick to your guns. These people have opposed every non-literal aspect of a comic adaption-they have been and should continue to be ignored.
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I hate to be the lone voice in the maelstrom... But I've read this script and it's good... really good...
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Okay, here goes. There is a prophecy, but it's that Kal-El will become the late Kryptonian and will save a distant planet from destruction. Jor-El sends him away, but before Krypton can go boom, this other faction of Krypotians find out about the prophecy and Jor-El's actions. Clearly, they don't like the idea of Kal-El being the last Kryptonian, so they intend to change these plans. They torture someone (probably not Jor-El, but maybe Momma Kal or someone who knew about Jor-El's plans. They head to Earth, but are unable to find out where Supes landed. So they bide them time until Supes surfaced. Clark grows up and realizes he's got powers, but tries to keep them secret from everyone. But while in college, he saves somebody. maybe someone falls off a balcony and he flies and saves him/her. Needing answers, he goes to Ma and Pa Kent and they tell him the truth and show him the spacecraft. With the space craft is the familiar Red and Blue suit. Cut to him joining the Planet. Lois can still be a raw and untamed reporter, Luthor can be with the CIA, Jimmy can even be gay. Luthor's investigating the scar craft, which is actually the other kryptonians. Supes makes him appareance on Air Force One, Luthor get his program to capture Supes and study him canceled because Supes is obviously a good guy, he gets fired and blames Supes. Since Supes surfaced, the other Kryptonians attack. Big battle. Think Supes-Doomsday battle. Supes gets the upper edge, but then Luthor swings his plan and does the Lois/Kryptonite thing (how could Kryptonians spring a trap with Kryptonite?). Supes changes gears and tries to save Lois, but is dying from the rock. Lois saves him, he rallies the government to start a war, big explosions, and Supes and the leader of the Kryptonians face off. Supes gets the upper edge but the bad guy tries to kill them both (the "if i can't be the last, neither can you" plan) with something kryponite-based. Supes escaped, and eeryone's happy. Everyone but Luthor, who withdraws to make a new plan. End movie. See, draws the best parts of J.J.'s script, and fixed the shite points.
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By the way, the Kevin Smith script sucks. He's got Batman broadcasting from the Batcave. How moronic is this? Doesn't he realize someone could trace the signal to the Batcave, and showing any part of the cave could potentially give away some of its secrets or location?
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This is so goddamn stupid what they're doing.
All fans want is to see Superman live in action. They want to see the orgin, they want to see everything that was in the comics LIVE IN ACTION. AND THAT IS ALL.
You want Superman to be a hit? Stick with the comics for at least 60% of the script, put in NEW villains that we haven't all seen in the past movies (keep Lex Luthor in it though), and add a few special dramatic scenes and minor plot twists and you have yourself a movie.
But most of all do not screw up the story so all that we've known to be the past of superman is erased. Do not force Smallville to cancel, do not totally ignore the comics and past movies.
This should just be an update of Superman 1 with new interesting things. Nothing else.
This script needs alot of rewriting, badly. Please just do this right.
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Sep 25, 2002 12:35:32 PM CDT
Good Ideas, Bad Execution; or, Is There Kryptonite Under the War
by the hawk
Because that would be the only good explanation why it's taking them so long to develop a good Superman movie. I'd say that the way JJ Abrams is opening up the Superman mythos with Krypton only being invaded and not destroyed could lead to some possibilities, provided the suits at The WaBbit don't screw it over with their nitpicking. And turning Lex Luthor into a UFO hunter for the CIA-an evil Fox Mulder, if you will-is a nice touch. But Lex is a Kryptonian? That does not bode well. As for the fates of the Kents, this is something that Stinky, Rusty Rat, and I were discussing while watching Smallville last night. Different versions of the Superman story have Jonathan and Martha both dead, both alive, or just one is dead, so that element is open. But elements like Lex Boy as a Kryptonian, and the shifts in narrrative focus, do scare me just like they probably do for the rest of you guys. But I think when it comes to passion, JJ Abrams and Bret Ratner have plenty of passion for Superman, but Jon Peters is just a cynical producer with only TWO GOOD MOVIES in him (Rain Man and the first Tim Burton Batman) just trying to regain his past glory. But like Lucifer in Paradise Lost, he is a fallen angel trying to return to a place he cannot go home to. Superman however is the immigrant who can't go home, and the Five for Fighting song is something that JJ Abrams should listen to few times before he starts the VERY NECESSARY rewrites his script requires to be the classic that the 1978 movie was. He should also watch the movie X-Men, as a prime example of how a comic book movie doesn't need to DUMP OUT ALL ITS EXPOSITION AT ONCE to be good. For such movies, don't be afraid of sequels because THAT let's you spread the myhtos out. But I fear that The WaBbit is gonna spread something else out that usually hits the air conditioninn unit. My suggestion is that Abrams and Ratner need a tighter script, Warners needs less meddlesome execs, and Jon Peters needs to go back to hairdressing. And a memo to Moriarty, Harry, et al: We need to send our TalkBack's to the marketing geniuses at Warner Bros. somehow so that they won't have a disaster on their hands like Batman and Robin. And honestly, WHY IN THE FREAKING NAME OF GREAT CEASAR'S FEATHERED GHOST DOES LEX HAVE TO BE A KRYPTONIAN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??????????????!!!!!!!????!
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Look you canon junkies-Superman couldn't even fly originally and you losers think everything you have seen in the past is sacred. Make the guy gay for all I care as long as we get a good film.
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Sep 25, 2002 12:42:17 PM CDT
Lessee, would it be worthwhile to see this movie produced and th
by wardog
Naw, wouldn't want that, just because some imbecilic suits may approve this shript. First, Krypton doesn't explode, then we find out the Kents were picked to care for Kal-El, then thre's this prophecy bullshit, Jimmy's gay, Superman's enemies flock to Earth to have at him, and WORST, Lex Luthor is a fucking Kryptonian!!! ABOMINABLE, simply ABOMINABLE! I don't see how it could be worse. No, strike that. It might give WB ideas on how to "improve" it. Die, die, DIE Wacko Bros. Eat this shit and die!
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What a pile. Seriously, what a pile. No huge fan of Supes am I, but this is outright, utter garbage. Why not give Ewocs capes and let them fly around Krypton, too? You know, the first Superman movie was hokey, and had problems, but the SPIRIT of the character was there. Now, it's just a slam-bang-big explosion, someone dies so lets all cry, fight and fight some more piece of shit. It's perfect for Michael Bay - right up his dumbass alley.
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The whole point of Superman myth/film/comic is HUMANITY. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Superman has always been the mirror that shows us who we are as people and what we should aspire to be. There is no humanity in this. By making Lex Luthor non-human, the theme of Superman is gone. But then again, maybe the WB execs didn't like what they saw in the mirror.
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What's funny is that they rejected Tim Burton's script only to accept this trash.
Tim Burton quit because the WB execs didn't like what he was doing. Most likely he was making the script too dark and dramatic for them, but it definitely would have kept to the spirit of the original films if WB hadn't messed with him so much.
This script definitely needs rewrites, and this time let the fans judge instead of the execs who know nothing next to nothing about the history of the movie. -
The people at the WB must be middle-eastern terrorists trying to ruin another american symbol. Thats the only reason that script could have ever been green-lit.
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Listen to some suggestions -- in no particular order other than those in which I think of them:
Cary Bates, who wrote a feature film and wrote the Superman comic for 20 years before that
Elliot S! Maggin who actually once wrote a Superman novel called Last Son of Krypton and who's dabbling at who-knows-what these days
Mike Chabon who clearly loves the character and has won a Pulitzer bleedin' Prize fer Heaven's sakes and -- what? -- maybe WB can't afford to hire him?
Jeph Loeb who is a seasoned screenwriter and a fine exponent of the particular legend at hand
Is any of these guys somehow not available? Or maybe they just don't hang out at the right hair salons. -
Shit. I can almost take a gay robot or an icebearfight but not fucking blowing up Nab... I mean, Krypton?!
I'd rather pour gasoline all over myself and then take a cigarett, leaning against a firework-factory than see this crap come to life!
Or...
I think I rather see Jon Peters do the same thing. I'd PAY for that! But not to see Lex Luthor F*****g FLY! -
suit #1: "well, as you can see from our demographics analysis, we can maximize our audience appreciation level by utilizing well-known and proven elements from the following franchises: X-files, Matrix, Star Wars, Felicity, and Independance Day."
suit #2: "nice graph! how did you do the dropshadow effect in powerpoint?"
suit #3: "that's irrelevant. the real question is: what is this Star Wars thing?"
suit #1: "It's got lots of special effects that the core fanbase of Superman like, from what I read."
suit #3: "Ah, so it's basically like Superman!"
suit #2: "Cool. But the dropshadow is nice too."
suit #1: "Thanks, but it's actually done by this hot intern we just hired. Man, if sexual harrasment is legal, she and I would never get any work done!"
suit #3: "Heh heh heh, it depends on how you define 'work', buddy-boy!"
suit #2: "Heh heh!"
suit #1: "So, do we have a movie or what?"
suit #3: "If you can introduce me to your intern tonight at the bar tonight."
suit #1: "Deal! Let's go celebrate!"
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I'm getting a headache with all this shit. How many of us are actually writing a Superman movie now? I got e mails from a lot of people who said they want to do the same thing I'm doing. Let's just write the movie ourselves. I'm sure that, collectively, we could come up with a great script. E mail me with your ideas.
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Some of it could be toned down. Hell, a lot of it could be toned down. But I gotta admit I read the synopsis with more interest than I would ever have had for just another rehash of the STORY WE'VE ALL HEARD FIVE HUNDRED MILLION TIMES CAN'T ANYONE WRITE NEW STORIES!!!!
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You people don't seem to realise that this is just another plot being exercised by the liberal element INFESTING Hollywood!!
Look at how Berman & Bragga screwed up the history built up behind Trek with that awful pap Enterprise!!! It's just a matter of time--they will get to everyone eventually---BEWARE!!! -
Sep 25, 2002 2:27:34 PM CDT
Can anyone tell me if France's FF script can be downloaded a
by otto parts
It's just, I have a feeling it will never be made, so I'd love to read it to imagine what it would have been like!! I think all profits from Spidey, Hulk, Daredevil and even X-Men should be ploughed into making a Fantastic Four movie!!
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Sep 25, 2002 2:32:23 PM CDT
mrbwiz, Burton was just as unfaithful to Superman as this script
by kingkrypton
The only difference was that his take was dark and twisted, this is campy and stupid. They just went from one extreme to the other, dark crap to light crap. And Jon Peters backed BOTH of them. So really, what's the difference? Under Burton, we'd have gotten an atrocity. With this, we're getting an atrocity. It's like choosing between dying of a plague and dying from a nuclear war.
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The rabid fan-base here isn't reacting to the script because there's a slight detail change, they're reacting because the changes impact the character. Quite simply, being the last survivor of a doomed alien race is an integral facet of Superman's CHARACTER - it's part of his identity and establishes his motivation. Taking that away would be akin to making Spider-Man a millionaire playboy who fights crime for pleasure, or giving James Bond a wife and kids. Is there a story in a wealthy thrill-seeking vigilante or a domesticated Secret Agent? Sure, probably, but it ain't Spidey or Bond. Doesn't a super-powered, alien Lex Luthor completely negate the enduring qualities of that character? What's the point of calling him Lex Luthor then? Shock Value. A Cheap twist ending. I think that's why there's such a reaction to a Gay Jimmy Olsen. It's not that there's a reason Jimmy can't be gay, but there's no reason TO make him gay either, other than...shock value. Look at me, I'm hip, I'm modern. This is not your father's Superman!*** To the gentleman who used the argument that he would love to see a radical interpretation of Moby Dick...if done well. Well, would you like to see a radical interpretation of Moby Dick written by somebody who obviously dislikes the original text...or hasn't read it. With an Ishmael who boards the ship because he has a crush on Queequog. Or an Ahab who, instead of obsessively hunting the whale, tries desperately to get the unsuspecting townsfolk to believe that the dead swimmers turning up on shore are not the result of a boating accident? Maybe there's a story there...but it AIN'T MOBY DICK! And this AIN'T SUPERMAN. So why call it SUPERMAN and alienate the legions of fans eager for a real Superman movie? *** Of course, it's even WORSE than bastardizing The Scarlet Letter or Moby Dick, because those works are in the public domain, and if a fan doesn't like an interpretation, there'll be another one along in a few years. Or, he or she, if properly motivated, could make their own. But Superman, and his fans, are at the mercy of the WB...they're the only ones who can deliver a Superman movie, and if they stink it up or trash the enduring character and concept, our hopes for an actual Superman movie, one that is faithful to the character and the concept. This script...this is not good writing. The choices made are inane and seem to be centered around effective CGI use and shock value rather than any semblence of respect for logic or the source material. That's sad.
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So the big question is: why the f*ck is Jon Peters still involved in this at all? He's backing sh*t scripts that betray the canon and piss off fans. Nobody really wants to spend a lot of money just to piss the fans off. Well, nobody should want to do that, but maybe these guys do. Maybe this three-mile long TB section will help WB figure out that Peters isn't their best guy, and cut him loose? Probably not. The recently evicted Lorenzo reportedly backed "Batman: Year One" as the next WB/DC flick to get made, and if they can get a script close to the comics, I think he's spot-on. What they need to do is build these things properly, not deconstruct them until they bear no resemblance to their source material and slap a known superhero logo on them to sell lame-ass merchandise. -- SPYder, out.
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Sep 25, 2002 2:55:34 PM CDT
There are SOME things that you JUST DON'T FUCK WITH. I mean
by empyreal0
Siegel and Schuster aren't still around are they? If they were, this script would be the final nail in the coffin. If they're dead and buried, I predict a couple really PISSED OFF stiffs to break in and murder a few WB execs. Jesus Christ, I mean, how the FUCK do you mess up Superman? And Luthor? Well, it's an interesting twist and all, but it's wrong. Very, very wrong. Luthor's power comes from being very rich, very smart, and very influencial. I can buy the whole Smallville thing about kryptonite making him bald, ok. Hell, who knows, maybe the kryptonite actually made him smarter too? Fine. But flight? Nah, ah. No way. Luthor's a mastermind, not a soldier villain. Oh well. Mori, you're a freaking genius. Your reviews read beautifully. You and Harry need to ne the next Siskel and Ebert, honestly. Get a show. This is good stuff. Better than the script anyway.
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For anyone who has read Steven King's "Dreamcatcher", do you not notice similarities between this God-awful interpretation of Luthor and Kurtz, the insane arm of the military, dealing with all things paranormal. This currently being adapted and will undercut the impact Luthor could make. I also think that Superman movies will always struggle to please, as Superman, great superhero though he is, simply doesn't have the quality and range of opposition that Batman, Spiderman, et al, have.
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There's nothing I can really add to this that hasn't been said a million times, but here it goes. This idea eats ass.
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Sep 25, 2002 3:21:30 PM CDT
WB execs are the biggest fucking morons I have EVER read about!
by empyreal0
They're gonna fuck up Supes like they fucked up Bats, like they're gonna fuck up Ender's Game when they eventually do that. No wonder Buffy jumped ship when they got the chance. All they ever do is leech the latest "big trend" in entertainment. Oooooh, Matrix has kung-fu, let's do kung-fu! Ooooh, X-Files did alien conspiracy cover-up crap and it did well, hey let's do Roswell, and then let's do it again in the Superman movie! Ooooooooh, battles are constantly getting bigger and more meaningless in movies, let's do that too! Explosions, superpowers, people that fly! Why does every fucking story that come out of that place have to be a rehashed piece of eye-candy bullshit? It's a miracle that Smallville has any of the excellent characterization that it does, even though it's quickly degenerating into a teen soap opera with a Goosebumps-monster-a-week. WB can burn in hell. I don't give a shit anymore.
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Sep 25, 2002 3:22:15 PM CDT
WB execs are the biggest fucking morons I have EVER read about!
by empyreal0
They're gonna fuck up Supes like they fucked up Bats, like they're gonna fuck up Ender's Game when they eventually do that. No wonder Buffy jumped ship when they got the chance. All they ever do is leech the latest "big trend" in entertainment. Oooooh, Matrix has kung-fu, let's do kung-fu! Ooooh, X-Files did alien conspiracy cover-up crap and it did well, hey let's do Roswell, and then let's do it again in the Superman movie! Ooooooooh, battles are constantly getting bigger and more meaningless in movies, let's do that too! Explosions, superpowers, people that fly! Why does every fucking story that come out of that place have to be a rehashed piece of eye-candy bullshit? It's a miracle that Smallville has any of the excellent characterization that it does, even though it's quickly degenerating into a teen soap opera with a Goosebumps-monster-a-week. WB can burn in hell. I don't give a shit anymore.
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There is not a single in that script that doesn't offend me. Brett Ratner is a hack. Apparently JJ Abrams is now, too.
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So we've all read & we are all equally horrified - now what? Think WB will listen? Think they give a damn about the fans. As history has shown in the past, we don't know better. THEY know what we want, not us. I hope this outcry will send a message to JJ at the very least. I think THE worst part is Lex being superhuman, period.
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Loads of talkbackers laid into Bryan Singer during XMen's production over the liberties he took with the source material. You know what? I DON'T CARE. THE MOVIE WAS AWESOME, THAT MUCH IN ITSELF IS A TRIBUTE TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL. If this movie sucks AND messes up the classic plot points, then fair enough...but how many classic movies based on novels were identical to those novel's plots? Book adaptations change storylines for the sake of making the best film possible (in the eyes of the filmakers), why shouldn't the same be true of comic books? Besides, all this complaining won't make WB execs change their minds, you can never please everyone on the net and they know it. Good or bad, we all know we'll pay to see this anyway, so let's hope they pull it off.
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We're not talking about THE WIND DONE GONE here. "Different" is not, by default, good. This is not a question about art being sacred - I mean, d'uh. Are you really walking on a Superman talkback where people are rallying against a dumbed-down, Matrix-ed up version of Superman and defending it by talking about the interpretive nature of art? What we're talking about here are 'dumb' choices, choices that, by their very inclusion, would make the movie 'not good' or 'less good'. How do we know this? We know this because the Superman character has endured for more than 60 years, and enjoyed continuing popularity and relevance throughout that time. But Abrams has made choices that alter the myth and concept...but he's not SAYING anything through those changes. He's not using Superman as a vehicle to make a statement or advance a theme. If someone makes LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST, which really plays with the Christian myth, and uses it to SAY something about religion, Christian mythology and the nature of humanity in general, that's one thing. If someone wants to film Moby Dick and add a twist to the Ishmael/Queequog relationship in order to say something about...oh, the brotherhood of man or the white man's raping of the native community, that's another thing. But if someone decides to make Ishamel gay because 'it's funny' or 'nobody would expect it!', or to turn the whale into an Octopus because he has an idea for a wicked underwater ink-shot...THAT'S NOT GONNA BE GOOD! If you're making interpretive choices that impact the actual core of a classic, longstanding, and popular character, especially choices that dilute the integrity of such a character, then you better have a better fuckin' reason than shock value or 'the more Kryptonians we can keep alive, the more big-budget mid-air kung fu fights we can have!' This is obviously a lazy script written by somebody with dollar signs in their eyes who was more interested in flash and CGI than characterization, relationship dynamics, and any semblance of intellectual conflict. AND THAT'S NOT GOOD!
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There's a link for it on the news page of the Super-Heroes At the Movies site:
shatm.com/news.html
Apparently the webmaster got hold of the script the Salkinds were intending to use for Superman 5 before Warners' rebought the rights. One of the screenwriters was comics writer Cary Bates, who wrote for Superman for 20 years. According to the review, this script has got Kryptonians too, but they're in KANDOR (the Krypton city that got shrunk into a bottle) and they're (correctly) non-super. BRAINIAC is the villain, but he's not quite the Brainiac from the comics (it looks like there's actually TWO Brainiacs here, one a robot, one a humanoid); but clearly it's a Brainiac INSPIRED by the comics, that rethinks the character without trashing the myth and all that went before to no purpose. It's even got Metropolis getting shrunk too, which I believe happened in the very first Brainiac story way back when. Obviously this script can never be filmed, but just from the few details in the review, you get a sense of what COULD have been, if the people involved now had the smarts to respect the old comics as great source material instead of pissing all over it. -
I have been waiting since 1978 for someone to make another decent Superman film. And if warner bros. goes ahead with this kind of garbage that I have just read I'll just keep on waiting. There are so many fundamental flaws with this script from Krypton not exploding and the most incredible peace of crap I have ever read Luthor being a Kryptonian makes me sick at heart. I pray that if they don't rewrite this thing and stick to what we know to be true Superman that this film goes into developmental hell like most warner bros. Comic book hero films.
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It's fun, join up and we'll tell of our different ideas. KongNo1@hotmail.com BladeRunnerUnit is exactly right when he says that dumbed down movies and diminished expectations preceded this script. I don't know how some of you want to judge the script only by the finished movie. You sound like pushovers who don't really care for much of anything, esp. Superman, so...why are you here? The 1990 script sounds interesting, I'll search for it.
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BladeRunnerUnite: You are an incredibly spiteful person. Not all of us here fit into the category of mindless movie goers who don't care at all. I've been upset about the state of movies for years; this script has just brought be to my breaking point. If anything, rather than wish this movie made for your own spiteful revenge, you should hope it is scrapped, and a truly good movie made in its place. Rather than wish suffering on others because something they love is being defile, you wish them luck in their fight; each battle against bad cinema counts towards the whole.
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This was very humorous!!!Moriarty, you are funny!!!Too funny.This script is not Superman.Its a script that has elements of Superman in it.Ratner if this script is legit then i echo Moriarty,Ratner, dont do this movie.Please!!!!
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Sep 25, 2002 5:03:03 PM CDT
this is one of the stupidest ideas in the long history of stupid
by tall_boy
so JJ Abram's made an origin story "for the 21st Century". I mean, he couldn't very well have just done Donner's Superman origin story re-written with updated FX (even though we would have all loved that anyway). Which leads to the main point: Everybody knows who Superman is therefore DON'T do another origin story! Write something, god forbid, original. Throw in Darksield, write KINGDOM COME if you're going to throw all this FX budget money at it. Write Andrew Kevin Freaking Walkers BATMANvs. SUPERMAN script! just don't make this abomination, please.
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This has to be the cruelest joke in the world. Don't you remember when you guy's tried turning Superman into fucking Energyman, then split the poor Kryptonian in two. That shit sucked, but nowhere near as bad as this stupid ass, bullshit script. I would rather see Bugs Bunny get splattered by a Mack truck then watch this movie. JJ Abrams and Jon Peters should have the taste bitchslapped outta their mouths. Jimmy Olsen gay? What the fuck is that about. Why would he date Lois' sister if he's gay? Wait, is Lucy Lane really a transvestite. You stupid shits.
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...that M. Night Shamaylan wanted to do this film. That's right, according to a story on Coming Attractions, Shamaylan actually contacted WB about doing SUPERMAN. But they turned him down. Here is part of the article itself for proof:
"It was around this time none other than M. Night Shyamalan cold called Warner Bros. to ask about coming in and talking about directing Superman. Word had now gotten out that WB's was looking for a replacement for McG. Sources say that Shyamalan approached WB exec Jeff Robinov about helming Superman, but that ultimately the talks never advanced because Shyamalan would ask to receive too much profit participation and creative control for Warners to make a Shyamalan Superman film a financial viability. Our source said that the notion of a Shyamalan Superman movie was also not a favorite of WB exec Alan Horn, who our insiders say favors Peters as the franchise's producer."
Too much creative control. How about that, huh? Yeah, why would WB give total creative control to a guy who has made three critically acclaimed films, two of which grossed over $200 million at the box office. What kind of dumb ass studio would want to do THAT?! Can you notice the dripping sarcasm? One of the brigtest, most talented young directors in the game-a guy who makes blockbusters with SUBSTANCE-and WB turns him down. What a bunch of assclowns. The script itself is not necessarily a BAD thing, it's just that it's not SUPERMAN. Just like GODZILLA '98 was a not a bad monster flick but a bad Godzilla flick. Hopefully all the bad press this script is getting will change things for the better. If that happens, THANK YOU MORIARTY!!!! -
I mean, how skewed of a view can one person have on something? Murdock, it's not just that it's different. Hell, X-Men and Spiderman were different. It's the fact that it's TOO different. Insanely different. Grossly different. This isn't an adaptation; it's a rework. And you don't rework what's already been established, ESPECIALLY when we're dealing with what basically equates to modern mythology. If you can't understand that, you're really not as intelligent as you think you are.
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Sep 25, 2002 5:24:48 PM CDT
To anyone who doesn't believe this can RUIN Superman in othe
by the g-man
Three words that prove you wrong:
Zap.
Pow.
Biff.***
Three MORE words that prove you wrong:
Holy.
(somthing)
Batman.***
Hell, here's SIX more words:
Same
Bat
Time
Same
Bat
Channel ***
Get the picture?***
If one TV show was able to more or less ruin Batman in the eyes of the public for approximately thirty years, why can't this horrible movie script do the same for Superman?***
And its not just comic book characters.***
For nearly 100 years now, movies have been overshadowing the books on which they were based and creating an enduring image in the public's mind that the movie was the "canonical" version.***
For example:***
Thanks to the movies, most people think Tarzan went around going "me Tarzan, You Jane," even though, in the books, he was rather articulate.
Thanks to the movies, people think Sherlock Holmes went around shouting "Elementary My Dear Watson" every five seconds.
Thanks to the movies, people think Frankenstein's monster was a green faced, square headed, mute giant.
Thanks to the movies, people think Dracula wore black tie and tails with a cape.
Even those the Tarzan, Dracula, Holmes, Frankenstein books have been in print for decades (or more), if you go to make a movie about those characters, you have to face the idea that now, thanks to earlier films, the public won't accept the "original" concept and will insist on the "film" version.
Given the above, I think the idea that this won't hurt the comics character is, quite simply, whistling past the proverbial graveyard.
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Earlier you said you wouldn't have a problem with someone throwing paint on a "copy" of the Mona Lisa. But would you have a problem with the Louvre then taking that Pollacked copy and hanging it up in the Louvre as THE Mona Lisa? I hope so. But, because Warner Bros. is the Louvre for movies Superman, that is, in effect, what they would be doing. And this reinterpretation would change Superman and how he is percieved and depicted from opening day on. Movies, comics, television - this will be the impression that people have of Superman. Because the changes made have been for the worse (and not just because they are different, but because they dilute characters and relationships and were obviously made without any sort of creative or intellectual impetus), this mainstream revisioning would be tragic. I would argue that Superman is not literature so much as it is myth. American myth (for the record, I'm Canadian). The changes made strip the character of emotional poginance and the mythological structure of some of it's didacticism and relevance, as well as his role as a symbol and his relationship to immigrant history.*** ROSENCRANTZ AND GUILDENSTERN ARE DEAD recasts Hamlet for humor value, sure, but it also does FAR more than that, and to write it off as a simple farce is an awful disservice to Stoppard's work which also questions the relevance of Shakespeare in today's world, as well as expanding on the notion of "all the world's a stage" and that even supporting characters are the stars of their own lives. *** I didn't say that any reimagining or interpretation has to 'make a point'. I said it has to say something, that there has to be reason behind it...and, in order for that interpretation to be good, the reasoning behind changes to a source material in any adaptation has to be sound. Humor is one (although the admission that you would 'laugh' at a Moby Dick where gay main characters would be played for humor value doesn't really say much for your tastes), though Superman is obviously not being reinterpreted as a comedy. Shock Value alone is rarely sound reason for anything other than a municipal Fringe play or a post-SOMETHING ABOUT MARY comedy. It gets tired, and gets tired fast.*** What we're looking at here is the reasoning behind Abrams' deviation from the beloved source material. And it should be EASY to tell, from Moriarty's review and synopsis, that the reasoning for these deviations is not sound. While there are a number of reactionaries here who squack at the slightest deviation from the original, the real criticism is not one of a failure to adhere to canon. I for one quite enjoyed Burton's Batman and the recent X-Men, even though those movies freely deviated from the respective properties established canon; but they kept the core of the characters and stories intact, and had at least some reasoning behind their changes. Finding new ways to blow a CGI budget, replacing intellectual battles in favor of punching, 'shock value' characterizations, and forced surprise endings are not sound reasons for eliminating some of the core elements that make the character and myth fascinating and enduring. A good movie will NOT come of this, simply because we can easily discern FROM these changes that the writer's motivations in constructing the script are superficial and uninsightful.
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They'll also stop making "old" Superman, and those of us who eagerly anticipate a Superman movie, those of us who weren't satisfied any with the original 4, and those of us who dream of a wonderful melding of quality high-budget filmmaking and perhaps the greatest 'new myth' of the 20th Century, will go disappointed.
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This is a book from the early '80s, featuring a fully-powered Superman. Pretty sweet read; good take on all the characters.
Anyway, the bit where he sits on a mountain and just listens? Much, much better in the book: Supes hears everything, all of us, like some undescribably deep and fully synced symphony. I can't describe it very well, but he hears himself in the symphony too, realizes his ties to Earth. This is a moment that fits *perfectly* with a Superman movie. -
Sep 25, 2002 6:52:27 PM CDT
On A Brighter Note, The New Smallville Season Has Started
by iloveewksandjjar
Take it as sincerity or a joke. I don't care. I just don't care any more........... (weeping)........ Stupid, stupid script........ (More weeping)
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John.Murdoch, meet BladeRunnerUnit. Custard pies at 50 paces, and no nerf weapons please.Ah, but screw it, it's all bullshit anyway--I STILL say this script is FAKE and I don't believe that it will ever be made. It would make baby Jesus cry, and then he'd have to start the Apocalypse early. And we wouldn't want that now, would we? Toppu o Nerae!
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Put a fucking bullet in my head!
I honestly don't think I'll be able to handle it if this shit-stain of a movie ends up being made. What a travesty. Superman is as American as apple pie, baseball, red white and blue, and crooked politicians.
They may as well wipe their asses with the American flag while there at it.
Sweet God, I think I'm gonna snap... -
Isn't one of the the things that makes for a powerful myth time? No matter what, this new 'interpretation' could never be equally powerful because it lacks 60 years worth of weight. How about the perspective that the original creators brought to the character? Superman exists on more than just paper. But if you change the origin story so radically (and haphazardly) from Joe and Jerry's vision, doesn't it lose the impact of not only what is being said, but who is saying it? Maybe the potential for a good movie is in that script, but DUDE it's not Superman. Superman is more than just a cape, bulletproof skin and an s-curl. This comic strips away and dilutes the elements that created the icon, the myth, and the phenomenon that would eventually result in Warners wanting to make the damn movie in the first place...only it would be apparent that the producers and the writers are too damn ignorant to see that in the first place. IF you want to see a radical, changed interpretation of Superman, don't forget that there's nothing stopping you from picking up one of the thousands of comics which reimagines Superman as a Fritz Lang character, a Nazi, the leader of a Kryptonian invasion force, Batman, etc. But a big-budget Superman film is going to be the premier window through which millions of children are first exposed to Superman, not to mention the countless others who know that Superman stands for something and something important but perhaps are unclear as to what makes him special and what drives this unique and powerful American myth, since their last exposure was the dreadful Quest For Peace. So to advocate change for the sake of change because it "might be good" is inane! This script lacks history, lacks perspective, and obviously lacks any understanding of the character and what makes him such a powerful, iconic force...and, I must add that the same must be said about anybody that would advocate it. For whatever reason. If you get one shot at a big-budget Superman movie every TWENTY years, why oh why would you ignore the very things that made him special in the first place. Just for the sake of change? Because it 'might' be good? Please.
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i can live the rest of my life watching all of chris reeves supe movies and every episode of the supe cartoon and be satisfied.if this movie gets made i wont see it ever!i dont need to i have the entire faithful storyline in the previous ovies and that damned cartoon.DC superheros are DONE if they let profit nazis like the WB have thier way...
on the bright side you did mention spidey 2,X2,the hulk(with even the hulk dogs sound soooo much more entertaining than this drivel),and daredevil...which should satisfy my comics2film needs... -
First of all they should definitely not include the standard origin story: the first hour and a half of Donner's film was definitive. But this script sounds really crappy. If Warner Bros. want to make money they should keep the basic original story and jazz it up a little in a few simple steps. 1) Cast the woman who played Ursa in Superman 2 as Superman. She's probably still hot enough to keep me interested even when the rest of the film is sucking. 2) Cast Brian Blessed as Jor-El. Have him shout a lot. 3) Keep John Williams original music. Have the main theme blare out whenever Supes is on screen and cut out abruptly if she should be out of shot, even for a second. 4) It is important to have a memorable bad guy. Cast John Goodman. Have him decaying for some reason. 5) The bad guy's sidekick should be easily marketable as an action figure. Cast a CG Starscream. 6) Cast Dolph Lundgren as Perry White. Have him endear himself to the audience by sitting on his desk, swinging his legs and smiling broadly for the whole film. 7) Cast Christopher Walken as Jimmy. A good running joke would be to have him wear a different hat in each scene. He should also make numerous references to his homosexual life partner, each followed by a pause to allow the audience to appreciate how goddamn edgy and cool this is. DO NOT show him kissing his lover, because I mean ick, eurgh. 8) Oh and replace Lois Lane with Gizmo. So damn cute. Better than JJ's script already. I only ask for an Executive Producer's credit and half a ton of the Crosby ganja.
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Second reading. Still fascinated. This is a bold, brave, reinterpretation of Superman. It's a REDEFINITION of Superman. (As was the Kevin Smith thing, which was also intriguing.)I'm not saying that's good in itself, or that it's bad in itself. I'm also not sure whether I think this version is good. I guess my point here is that there are so many knee jerk reactions here that this is 'death' bla bla bla. No idea if any WB exec is ever gonna troll through this mass of ranting, but if he/she does HAVE THE COJONES TO DO SOMETHING ORIGINAL LIKE THIS, even if this particular version isn't it. To sceptics let me put it this way: imagine how cool it would be to see an 'origins of superman' movie, WHERE YOU DID NOT HAVE THE FOGGIEST IDEA what to expect...
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Okay, I read these things on the internet, and I've never read anything on AICN, so this is a first for me. How accurate is this? Is this really Abrams' script? If it is, I have a few things to say. Have you ever picked up an issue of Superman in your life? I will call myself a true fan of Superman. Have been all my life. Thus far, I've liked the movie and television incarnations. Each has been different, but has spoken to the time in which it was presented. I can respect Abrams' story, but only if he takes away anything that has to do with the name Superman or any name associated with Superman. This seems like a great story, but not one to mix with the Superman mythos that everyone has at least partially known for the last 65 years. Problems that I see just at glancing over this review: First of all, prophecy? What prophecy? How hard is it to destroy the planet Krypton? I've seen it done several different ways. No two creators have blown the planet up the same way, but they've blown the planet up. The planet needs to be destroyed. Whether that's caused by the explosion of the red sun that Krypton orbits or by some kind of internal damage done by the people of Krypton. Destroy the world. Please. Next, Lex Luthor with powers? No. Lex Luthor is a regular guy. He's the average Joe who just happens to be very smart and has worked very hard to be the man that he is. You can make him the shrewd business man that he is in current continuity or make him the evil genius of yesteryear. Even the CIA agent thing could work... I don't like it, but it could work. But not a Kryptonian. Which brings me to my next problem. Superman has many nicknames. One of which is "the last son of Krypton." He's called this for a very specific reason. He is the LAST surviving Kryptonian. Notice that I wrote the word LAST in all caps. See, when a planet is DESTROYED, then it's civilzations and people are also DESTROYED. Next, Jor-El visited Earth? What was this, just some vacation he and the Mrs. went on one summer? Was it a package deal? Tour the rings of Saturn, the moons of Jupiter, the plains of Kansas? Did he get to the vast farmlands and think, "Hmm, I think I'll send my only son here someday to grow up." At this point, that's all I have to say about this review and script. Mr. Abrams, I have enjoyed your past works, Felicity and Alias. If this film is made, I will pay my $7.00 to see it, because I am a Superman fan. But if this is what I see on that screen, I will wait for the end credits, I will walk out, and I will be a very disappointed fan. And I know for certain that I will not be the only one. To change such a recognizable character so dramatically is very nearly a criminal act. I don't mean for this to be hate mail. If that's how you take it, I apologize. I simply mean for this to be a wake up call from one voice in a sea of millions.
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It took a fucken long time to get over the batman campiness, and people do belive movies to be faithful. (I really SHOULD read Sherlock Holmes, I've said Elementary my dear Watson one to many times.) And also, keeping William's score is spectacular idea.
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but ya know
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....How WB can have the rights to the GREATEST modern day mythological characters of our time and just CAN NOT GET IT RIGHT...well I take that back, Smallville is really a great twist on Superman. They manage to tweak it in a way to make it fresh (The LEx, Clark friendship) while also managing to stay true to what makes Supes SUPER. But THIS script is just beyond bad. IT is SO bad that about half of me believes it can't be real. Nobody would ACTUALLY make Lex an alien would they? THe only thing that makes me believe this could be REMOTELY possible is Birds of Prey. I saw a screener of Birds of Prey and let me tell you NOW before it premieres that I will be shocked if the show does well. It suffers from the same thing that this script suffers from, needless changes...Why is Huntress Batman and Selina Kyle's daughter? and if she IS then why on God's Green Earth is she a metahuman? Ok sorry I really just geeked out there...but DAMN!! IT'S NOT HARD!!! HAND THE REINS OVER TO THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE BATMAN THE ANIMATED SERIES AND THE SUPERMAN ANIMATED SERIES!! BRUCE TIMM, PAUL DINI THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE MATERIAL.....Ok..that's all I have to add..if anyone reads this...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't do this.
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To point out the hypocracy of all those who curse this movie for not being true to the comics and then decry the sole story point that comes almost directly from the comic. In the Funeral for a Friend storyline, Pa Kent talks Kal-El into coming back to life. Need I point out the irony, or is it evident enough?
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Beast Wars fucken ruled, it was true to the story. (yeah i better sart posting opinions of my own and stop recycling)
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In the comic books, Comissioner Gordon WAS an adulterer! Sarah, now deceased, was his SECOND wife, the one he had an AFFAIR with when he was with his first wife Barbara. If you're going to become indignant, get your facts straight, FIRST.
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It doesn't matter if some small changes are made, like in Spidey or X-men, or most books that are translated to fit the screen, but this horrible asault on THE MOST IMPORTANT FICTIONL FIGURE IN WESTERN CULTURE ignores why Superman ever worked in the first place. He was the one that started it all. The first super-hero. He shouldn't face any super-powered opponents, at least in the first film, if they haveto make a trilogy, he can fight Bizarro in the second. Sups is the adopted son of this planet, paying back the earth for the kindness and shelter and ideals that were bestowed apon him being raised in Kansas. That doesnt work if Krypton was not destroyed and Jor-el visited the Kents before Kal was sent there. And the reason why Lex has endured over the years as Supermans main adversary is that whether he be portrayed as a mad scientist or criminal genius, he chalenged those farmboy ideals, and not because he could put up a fight. Do not use this script!
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With some tweaks. Number one: put Lex Luthor back where he belongs. Make him the Bill Gates/Donald Trump/Oprah Winphrey type magnate he should be. Make your CIA Kryptonian a new character. Heck, make him Dan Turpin. But Lex has to stay Lex. Second, there can't be any Kryptonite on earth, because Krypton hasn't exploded. Make the anti-Kryptonian weapon a Red-Solar Radiation cannon or something. Do nix the whole Death thing. Have Superman presumed dead, a headless Kryptonian corpse in the big blue suit. Which should not be liquid by the way. Make it out of his swadling clothes. I love that idea. And make the main bad guy or his son General Zod. THat should be enough to get you on the right track.
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NOTE TO BRETT RATNER: You are a rice king rat fuck. Everyone in Hollywood hates your ass. Your intolerable body odor is quickly surpassing your shitty films in terms of triggering gag reflexes in those forced to bear witness to both. Most importantly, the staff (and many of the customers) of Asanebo restaurant in Studio City CA (plug) wish you would disappear. The waitresses think you are repulsive (so you can quit sexually harassing them), the customers think you are a loud, obnoxious, graceless pig (and they are correct) and your sycophantic entourage of losers are almost as clueless as you are. Please do everyone a favor and kill yourself. But take a shower first. Even LA coroners have a sense of smell.
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The Batman and Superman animated tv series are one of the best adapted shows ever made. Better then the Batman and Superman movies. It captures the darkness and struggle of Batman, and the nobleness and whatnot of Superman (I'm more of a Batman Fan). It also captured one small, teensy, little detail of the Superman continuity. LEX WAS HUMAN! Yes, human, as in, from Earth. The relationship between Lex and Supes is special because Lex is a normal weak human who time after time uses his power, wealth, and brain to defeat him, then Supes prevails at the end, because, well he is, Superman, Last Surviving Son Of Krypton And Protector Of Earth! Yup, Krypton explodes. And as for John Kent talking Superman into not dying, it was as stupid in the comics as it is in the script. Fuck a rewrite. Just fire Adams and hire some Marvel movie writers. NOT NEARLY 'NUFF SAID.
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Per the earlier poster I just checked out the review on the Super-Heroes In the Movies site of a much better Superman script (from the Salkinds, believe it or not: this would've been their Superman 5)
On the REAL planet earth, THIS is the Superman movie about to be filmed. Warners has now convinced me we're all living on the BIZARRO world... where BAD am GOOD! -
I put the whole of my agreement
into what earendilthemariner2 has said if any of people want to contradict you are nothing but screwed up in the head!!! -
And lose that whole prophecy schtick. They're so played out it's getting ridiculous. Brendan Frazier as Kal-El. Carrie Ann Moss as Lois Lane. Bruce Willis as (the real) Lex Luthor. Anthony Hopkins as Jor-El. Jude Law as General Zod. In a desperate apttempt to save his son from the Civil War that threatens to destroy his home-world, a brilliant scientist sends his son to a distant planet to learn the ideals that have long since escaped his people. In an act of petty revenge, General Zod and a small platoon of soldiers seek to destroy the vessel, mistakenly thinking that Jor-El has left the planet in his cowardice. Just as the second vessel lunches, the planet is destroyed, with the resultant shockwave throwing the second vessel severely off course. About thirty years later, Zod's crew catches up with Supes, and your epic battle begins. BOO-YAH.
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SERIOUSLY!! Because when this movie fails maybe WB will finally learn NOT TO FUCK WITH SUPERHEROS!!!! On the plus side this script sounds absolutley FUCKING HALARIOUS! When Lex revieled his big secret to Clark I was on the floor laughing!! I mean like Lex Luthur as a CIA AGENT/ALIEN!!??? This sounds like something that Resident Evil director (not worth remembering his name) would make!
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You -" I knew about the **** thing, but I thought his actual comments made no constructive sense, and if anything hamper the argument more than enrich it."
1) Who the fuck are you to decide whether a comment "enriches" the bitchfest?
2) Rather than repeating things that had already been said, I though it would be good to make a couple new points - A) Superman doesn't need to stand on a mountain and listen really hard to find out what's going on - he has fucking X-ray and Telescopic vision, so all that he has to do is look around. and B) It's a little suspicious that one of the few people defending this piece of crap is named JPX when the script is written by Jon Peters.
Does that enrich the fucking debate enough for you, oh god-like arbiter of enrichedness? -
Sep 25, 2002 10:17:08 PM CDT
I'd like to apologize in advance for the language in this ou
by douglasah
But there simply aren't any other words in the English language for...
You've got to be fucking shitting me. -
DOOM! Brett Ratner has been confirmed as director! DOOM! They actually say that Jon Peters was given the job of re-imagining the Superman epic! DOOM! Read the horrors yourself at www.comingsoon.net or www.superherohype.com! DOOM! DOOM! DOOM!
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I wonder how some of the DC writers fell about this news.
This script can't be for real, this isn't Superman.
I can't wait for the casting call for this version...I can see it now: based on how laughable the script is, this is who I see them casting:
Superman/Clark Kent: Bill Cosby
Lois Lane: Rosie O'Donnell
Jimmy Olsen: Andy Dick
Ty-Zor(or whatever his name is): Jerry Seinfeld
Lex Luthor: Bill Murray
Jor-El-George Carlin
Jimmy's Gay Lover: Kevin Smith
Lois Lane's Gay Lover:(this was Rosie O'Donnel's idea) Caroline Rhea
You just wait folks....this isn't that far fetched....especially Andy Dick as Jimmy Olsen... -
Jerry Seinfeld would never be involved in this travesty... He's an enormous Superman fan. I wonder if he's heard about this... I bet he'd be as pissed as we are.
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John Murdoch is the lonely voice in the wilderness here, and for him to weigh in on this in the face of an avalanche of disagreement takes some moxie, and for that he should be given credit. Of course, the whole discussion goes back to a type of debate that is perennial in fanboy circles. If there's any kind of delineation that goes on in genre fandom, it's the tug of war between what I'm going to call for the sake of this post the "progressives" and the "traditionalists." (And yes, I believe these attitudes do echo approaches to other matters in general, including politics, they do not necessarily reflect a person
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John.Murdoch
"Why do you want to see movies of characters you like done exactly as you've always seen them? Isn't it more interesting to see a different approach?"
Yes - I would like also to see Batman as a a gay robot from the moon whose parent's raised him in a cult to start the apocalypse with the assistance of a dog tat starts fires in garbage dumps. No! We might actually like to see a portrayal of the most well known and iconic superheroes of all time that sticks to the fucking story and for the first time ever actually stands a chance of doing it accurately with today's CGI. Difference is good except when it's just for the sake of being different. Now shut up Jon Peters.
UngiftedAmateur says:
"Come on guys grow up. Superman is reinvented all the time in the comics why not accept this treatment. Lex Luthor went from buffoon to President of USA (maybe not much of a leap that). This film will end up being what the next generation regard as the definitive Superman myth and the comics will change their continuity to fit it."
Yeah. Reinvented all the time. The character has been aound for 70 years and has been "reimagined" a total of 3 times. That is hardly all the time. Lex Luthor went from being mad scientist working in secret to mad scientist working publicly. Big change. Then he was president - how? Did he get revised to be preseident - n, he actually ran for president and won in the actualy story. Now shut up Jon Peters.
UngiftedAmateur says:
"We don't want to see a greatest hits film-lets see a new story. Lex Luthor probably had hidden powers all along like Clark Kent-it's just they were hidden from the reader as well."
Yeah, Lex probably had powers all along. He just forgot. And Jon Peters is probably a really good writer, he's just "hidden his powers" from everyone. Now shut up Jon Peters.
SamuraiHack
"I hate to be the lone voice in the maelstrom... But I've read this script and it's good... really good..."
MISSING THE FUCKING POINT, MUCH?
It's not about the quality of the script - it's about the fact that this is a fine script, it's just not about fucking Superman is all. I personally would love to see this movie as it is described with changes - 1) Krypton blows up and 2a) the villians are escaped from the phantom zone or 2b) are from the same planet as Mon-El (can't remember) of the Legion of Super-Heroes - who may I add have exactly the same powers as Kryptonians. - 3) get rid of the stupid costume in a can OR 4) make this movie about someone else. -
I agree, They surpass a reasonable amount of change. And as far as the good parts surviving in a Darwinian way, that is why this movie would be destined to fail. The only thing surviving from the source here are the brand names. The names of the characters. Nothing else.
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Sep 25, 2002 10:50:42 PM CDT
We are making this movie and you all are going to love it
by brett ratner
You know what, I could honestly give a flying fuck about what you net nerds think of me or my movies.I mean, how can you dis such classics as Money Talks, The Family Man,and Mariah's Heartbreaker video. Me and JJ are making this movie and you all will love it, just like you will love Red Dragon, Samurai Jack,and RushHour3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,and 20. I will continue to shove these kind of movies (and Chris Tucker)up your female vulcan lusting asses until you show me some godamn respect.
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Sep 25, 2002 10:58:06 PM CDT
(i'm really JJ abrams) well, at least people like Alias
by brett ratner
Tru Dat, Brett
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I agree with THE FOUNDER and his suggestion to use Darkseid and the New Gods characters in the next Superman film. Although Superman is already closely linked to the Fourth World mythos by virtue of his appearances in the original New Gods, Forever People and, of course, Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen, I believe there are many ways to fully integrate the two universes - and here's one... The un-named planet which explodes and gives rise to New Genesis and Apokalips is, in fact, Krypton. The resulting cataclysmic explosion shunts the two sister planets into another dimension making it appear that Krypton was completely destroyed. The tiny ship that rocketed Kal-el to safety also contained the secret of the Anti-Life Equation, which was the cause of the planet's destruction. Darseid becomes aware of its existence (and of Earth's as well) by Mentor and his Moebius chair - who is later revealed to be the ultimate merging of man and machine - specifically Jor-el and Braniac (the computer he used to solve the Anti-Life Equation and, ultimately, the cause of Krypton's destruction). Darkseid's minions (particularly his para-demons) would provide all the airial battles which Abrahms' script suggested (and they would still be 'Kryptonian' in a sense). In the end, you could have Jor-el/Mentor sacrificing himself to detroy the Boom Tube - the inter-dimensional/temporal tunnel that connects our two universes. Oh, by the way, there would also be an incredible revelation regarding Darkseid and Highfather - but I have to save something! ;) Like I said, I think there are many ways to incorporate the New Gods and still keep this a Superman film. I think it could give Warner Bros. the best of both worlds - a Star Wars meets Spiderman film (just add up those box office totals)! That's it for me! May the Source be with you! ;)
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Sep 25, 2002 11:11:21 PM CDT
WB: "J.J. Abrams and Jon Peters were given the daunting task of
by archangel972
"J.J. Abrams and Jon Peters were given the daunting task of re-imagining the Superman epic and J.J. met the challenge, delivering a terrific script with emotion, depth and scale that bring new dimension to this legendary character. We couldn't be more pleased to entrust the next chapter in the Superman mythology to Brett Ratner, a dynamic director whose skillful blend of action, comedy and drama has captured the imaginations of audiences worldwide," said Robinov in the press release.
"Superman is an American icon and a timeless hero who shares a rich history with Warner Bros.," commented Alan Horn, president, Warner Bros. "We are very happy to be working with Brett, Jon and J.J. on this important new chapter in the Superman legacy." -
Sep 25, 2002 11:16:16 PM CDT
Notice how WB uses the word "re-imagining" in that press release
by archangel972
I haven't really commented much on the script because I agreed with everyone else's opinions. Still, after reading this press release from WB...They might as well as rewrite actual history and say that Neil Armstrong never landed on the Moon. What a disgrace.
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Oh god, it's true!! I just read the announement on comingsoon.com!*WAAAAAHHH!!* mugatu1115, I hope to all that does not suck that what you said is true. Please, WB, don't screw up Superman! Hell, use THE FOUNDER and Ivan_Mtl's Darkseid ideas, those would rock! But if not. . .then may Wotan, Zeus, Cthulhu and Yaweh all take turns inflicting Divine Judgement on the WB studios! Toppu o--no, fuck that; Up, Up and AWAY!!
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Sep 25, 2002 11:38:15 PM CDT
Oh, but even though those two mollusks are directing/producing,
by noriko takaya
Right? RIGHT?? Hope, hope, hope. . .
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Sep 25, 2002 11:43:29 PM CDT
krypton does not explode, cia special agent dr. lex luther, lex
by darkwingdragon
hell fuckin NO, no, no, no. are you fuckin kiddin me. let me guess...and fuckin batman shows up and he is also a fuckin kryptonian...no, he is fuckin brainiac. this is not superman, this is some fuckin fucked up alien movie that is definatntely not about superman. this is worst...waaay worst than when square used the final fantasy name just to sell a fuckin movie that does not have anything to do with the final fantasy genre. it's all about the money isn't it, w fuckin b, greedy ass bastards.
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If what I just read is true, our language will need to evolve just to sufficiently describe the magnitude of suck that is packed into that script. This has to be a joke.
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Even though no one will read this post (1 of over 800), I need to let my anger out and that seams to be the only way to do it. Well, more proof that WB lives in their own world where they beleive they know best and whatever stupid idea they can cook up will be bought by the public no matter how dumb the idea is. There must be over 800 posts here all agreing that this is the worst move WB can make and yet, WB still ignores us all and has just issued a press release where they try and convince us that they actually have something terrific. They seem to be the only ones who think they are doing it right. And well, it's superman... whatever they decide to do with it will make money. I would have been first in line even if every review whould have trashed the movie and begde me to save my money... I though nothing would have stoped me from seeing it at least once... but from what I'm reading, I find myself reacting completly differently. I can now confirm nothing on earth will get me into a theater showing this superman movie. Unless I ear that they've maid drastic changes I will be personnally be patroling every theater in my area and will use all my power to convince people not to go see this movie... though with such stupidities I probably won't have to. I just can't understand how they green lighted such a peice of crap... did they even read the script or they they just read the title and made the math? And how in hell did Brett Ratner agree to do this? What drug was he on when he sign for this... did they hold a gun to his head and force him to sign on? I never loved Ratner, I respected him... he understood the basic rules on how to make a movie work but never raised himself to a superior level (I have not seen Red Dragon yet but from what I ear, the good of this film does not come from him but from the people working with him). But now, by making such stupid decision, I just lost the remaining respect I had for him. If they do go in that direction (nothing seams to indicate that they will make drastic changes which would be the only way to save this movie) I hope it fails miserably and lose a lot of money. Of course, that will all depend on the rest of you cause I know I'm not contributing a dime to this movie. Anyway, I think I won't be the only one reacting this way. We still have a couple of years to try and convince as many people as we can to not wast any money on this. If Batman & Robin wasn't a disaster enough to open WB eyes, then perhaps this will be. How dumb can you be. after Batman & Robin, they all tough the audience wasn't interested in comic book adaptations. Suddenly hits spider-man and oh, the audience just magically appeared. When will they get that the audience has always been there but only for well made comic book adaptation. I've yet to see one adaptation stay loyal to it's origin. Spider-man and X-men where pretty loyal but not completly. I'm convinced that when a studio will finally have the guts to release a comic book adaptation that won't try to reinvent anything, that movie will make so much money, no one in hollywood will ever have the guts to try and reinvent any adaptation again. Untill that day comes (which will probably be a while) we'll have to keep our fingers crossed and hope someone will wake up and do it right.
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I *will* be keeping a close eye on this Superman project and if a script even *remotely* resembling this sad excuse for an idea is used as the final draft, I *won't* be going to see it. Hell, I think if I did see it I may have to gouge my eyes out. What complete and utter stupidity.
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Lex Luthor may actually work for Hollywood and swindles money out of unsuspecting audiences!!!
This new script needs a rewrite, seriously!!
Enough of the "ping-ponging" from future, past, present. It's like a superhero remake of Back to the Future III!
My 10 y/o nephew would have better ideas for the Superman movie.
Puhleeeze do not have Supe die! It is sooooo tacky to have him die, but to DIG HIMSELF OUT OF THE GAVE AFTER HIS REAL DAD GAVE HIM A PEP TALK???!!!!
My suggestion is that they keep many of the concrete (though mythological) facts the same. They just need to add a little 21st. century to it, that's all. Maybe Lex Luthor could be behind global warming or could be responsible for "playing both sides of the fence" when it comes to warring nations. Oh, and please keep Lex bald for God's sake!!! Nothing else suits him.
One last thing. I hope that WB seriously rewrites and rewrites the script to form a major successful movie. Not just something they think will rake in the big $$, but something actually evoking emotions from us.
As for a sequell, should this one miraculously turn out a hit, they might look into going the "Superfriends & Justicleague" road--make it a little cheesy like the cartoons of the 70s/80s some of us grew up with.
Should WB and Abrams stay with this embarassing script--may they be banished to the Phantom Zone for all eternity!!! ;-) -
yeh...if you took the part out where Krptonians take over krpton and then went to earth to find the "chosen one" and maybe if you had Krypton explode just for a little cool effect....ummmm, make Lex a bit less superhuman and more human. HA HA BETCHA never thought of that one!!!!!! kick Jor El out and the whole dead scene...add a lightsaber fight, Yoda, Jar Jar Binks, and Gandalf and my GAH!!! what a great movie!!!!! Wait...that would all look like shit too wouldnt it?
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I'm not going to insult you like some of the others, but i can't agree with you on a different take on the orgin. The script according to this site is not Superman at all, but an combo of successful movies that have come before. We have Star Wars, DBZ Matrix, X-Files, Armageddon/Deep Impact, and probably yet unnamed successful flicks of late. Come on man a prophecy?? an air/kung-fu battle, pyramids and cities being destroyed, A story taking place place on a Alien planet at the same time as on Earth just for the sake of doing so. Oh yeah and I forgot, their has to be sometype of LOTR influence, so their's a huge battle on Krypton that is similar to the opening battle of LOTR, I mean their is supposed to be some type of Civil War, and jeez I can't leave out Harry Potter, but i'm not sure how'll they'll work an element from Potter into the script, but I'm sure they will find a way, maybe a giant troll like creature that's supposed to be from Krypton, and it's brought to Earth. I'm sorry man I don't agree, this Abrams doesn't come off original to me, or it could be meddling warners and Peters. Don't be to surprised if they somehow mesh in elements from X-men, and Spiderman as well. I'm sorry man this script sounds like it may work with decent tweaking, but Superman's name shouldn't be slapped on it for the sake of making money off the Name.
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Sep 26, 2002 1:59:12 AM CDT
If they make Abrams SUPERMAN script, they terrorists will have w
by johnnytremaine
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This whole re-imagination thing gives me a great idea for ANOTHER re-imagining...Watchmen! Okay, so instead of setting in an alternate universe, you set it in the universe WE live in, but Nixon is STILL president! And instead of a standoff with Russia, it's a standoff with IRAQ! But here's the thing...Ozymandius wouldn't REALLY be a millionaire, he'd be the secret alter-ego of Saddam Hussein! Think of the pathos! Okay, see, and instead of somebody going around killing the superheroes, they're just PESTERING them, like sending porn spam and AOL CDs to them all the time! And instead of a psychotic vigilante, Rorshach can be a horny teenager with a port-wine birthmark on his face trying to hook up with the captain of the Cheerleader team (Kirsten Dunst). And instead of destroying something, Ozymandius (Hussein) can just drop lillies on all the major world capitals to make people realize that maybe, just maybe, we should all give peace a chance! It ends with the Watchmen all gathering for a big party at a beach house, where Rorshach and Dunst get jiggy, only to find that they've accidentally glued their private parts to each other! It'll open to 40 million on Memorial Day weekend! Let's DO this thing!
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Sep 26, 2002 2:20:21 AM CDT
BadAssUncleFucka I never said that Superman was a part of the Ki
by the founder
an opinion(like so many here) on how to use Darkseid as a villian. Darkseid was not orginally a Superman villian but he became one, and has been featured in the comics of Superman. The Paul Dini animated Superman had a great story involving Darkseid and an invasion from Apokolips, and recently in the DC universe a huge invasion from Apokolips that spilled over in just about all the DC titles. I don't see a need for made up villians, when DC has a stable of good villians to use(not as good as Marvel)I just thought Darseid would make a great piece for a trilogy, and still do.
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Sep 26, 2002 2:38:42 AM CDT
Have their ever been a Talkback this long??? Sure we've all
by the founder
since i've been coming to this site i don't think I've seen on where 99 percent of the posts are negative against a project. A lot of fans pissed and moaned about changes to Spidey and the Xmen, and insulted Singer and Rami to no end, but at the same time their was some who argued to accept the changes or give them a chance, now granted a lot of stuff was rumor or whatnot(coming from WB anything bad usually turns out to be true), but Singer and Rami delivered good products, not perfect, but good enough that it made a good deal of us overlook the changes. One thing remained the same, and that is neither Singer or Rami changed the orgins or characters so drastically that it couldn't be considered Spiderman or Xmen anymore. As i've said in the past i don't think Warners is capable og making a good superhero flick, because it seems that hacks are drawn to their projects like bees to honey, i mean hasn't both Peters and Akiva Goldmans been liked to bad Superhero flicks and some other flicks as well, but waht does Warners do, they keep Peters on, a guy that has been involed on the bad Superman films. I wouldn't connect anyone from the past Supes or Bats film to the new ones. I'm surprised Joel Schumocker hasn't been attached somehow. I don't know what to make of Warners. I honestly thought that they would use the Wachowski's for Supes with the matrix success or hearing someone like M. Knight Shaylaman being interested is a good sign, but then Horn spits in his face? To me it's like Sony lining up the creative team behing the 70's Spiderman movie and show to work on their big budget scrren release. I just doesn't make any sense. Oh well maybe they'll surprise us and it'll be a good movie, it won't be Superman, but it may be a good film.
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Sep 26, 2002 2:46:37 AM CDT
Warners have to stumble on a hit like they did with the Matrix,
by the founder
The Matrix was never expected to be a big hit by Warners. It cost around 55-60 million to make, and was released in the spring. It shocked the shyt out of the execs, and then it had became Warners highest grossing movie at that time. Somehow the Wachoski's and Silver got creative control, because if not it surly would have been far less then what it was if the Execs and Peters(I know he has nothing to do with it, but he would if he could)had their way with it. Harry Potter tirned out true to the book because rowling kept creative control, and she wanted the movie to follow the letter of the book, because if not Warners would have hacked that to pieces. Them execs are clueless.
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Notice how it states "JJ Abrahms AND Jon Peters have given us this great reimagining of a legend", blah blah.
The implication is that Peters is not only producer but "co-author". The NY Times article had it right... this debacle was/is all about a power struggle at WB, it has nothing to do with the merits of what constitute a worthwhile film. How or why Peters is still there, able to weild this kind of influence after the bath of red ink Warner's took on his last "creative masterpiece" Wild Wild West will go down as one of the great mysteries of the 21st century. -
I really told myself that I wasn't going to care about this, that this film was going to get made, and I probably wasn't going to like it, but...WHAT THE HELL!? We can only hope this isn't for real. Not only is this a bad adaptation, it seems like a bad script overall, Superman or no. It's a clumsy, dated mishmash of whatever was "hot" three or four years ago; the X-Files, Matrix, The Phantom Menace, Michael Bay movies...what have you. Forget how it plays with the fans (sorry to say it guys, but the hardcore faitful are not going to make or break a movie); mainstream audiences are not going to fall for this crap. For the time being, the days of the bloated Bay/Bruckheimer "blow shit up" extravaganza are over. The Matrix and Lord of the Rings succeeded because they struck an emotional chord with audiences, not because they were wall-to-wall action. Look at the business and good will Signs generated vs. the reception for Pearl Harbor. Not only is this script the wrong direction to go in with the Superman character, it's the wrong direction to go in, period. Give us characters we can give a damn about, an involving story with an internal logic that, at the very least, doesn't insult the intelligence of even a three year old (gotta love that Kal-El coming back from the dead thing there), and that, at the very least, shows some attempt to adhere to the basics of the source material...basics that, in the case of Superman, are known to almost every man, woman and child on earth...(and that, if Smallville is any indication, are still selling pretty well)....then things will probably be fine. God. I hope this thing is a fake.
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How's that for authenticity? Plus, Supes does not need to leave Krypton at all, since over there, EVERYBODY is Superman! Think of the action sequences - they could go on forever! Superman versus Superman versus Superman! And then Bicycle Repairman comes in and saves the day! Maybe they should call it 'Krypton Wars', which would go nicely with the R2 and Chewie lookalikes. And why not make it an entirely gay community - that has not been done been before. Now if we could only get some polar bears to Krypton... Perhaps an experimental space flight to Mars went wrong? We'll leave that up to Peters to figure out, he'll come up with something.
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Sep 26, 2002 3:51:51 AM CDT
this has got to be the most moronic thing i have ever heard.
by testicleez
whoever the fuck this schmuck jj abrams thinks he is, it sure as shit ain't a goo writer, or a visionary or any of that other bullshit they are trying to pass him off as. how the fuck can WB be so fucking stupid? honestly, an then i read that they have plans of releasing it at the same time as hellboy and the amazing spier-man?! this movie will flop so fuckin bad if they go with the current script. they don't just need a re-write, they need a totally new script by someone who gives a damn about the superman mythos. and if i hear one more person say how excellent this script is, i'm gonna fucking go on a fuckin hunting spree at the warner's lot. also while im on my soap box here, this brett ratner is a total joke. ok...rush hour was good, but 2 was seriously lacking, not in the story, not in the acting, but for the most part in the irection the movie was going in. an who's hands oes that fall into children? the directors!! well anyway, if they go through with this batman and robin wannabe stupid ass trash in a basket bullshit and eventually start bringing in characters like alicia silverstone as supergirl, chris fuckin o'donnell as superboy, nic cage as Jor-El, collin farrell as batman, jue law as supes himself, george clooney as the dog and the doctor one of the culkin kids as cartman...wait...wrong story...sorry. anyway, please o not allow this to happen. they aren't gonna blow up krypton, lex is gonna have super kryptonian powers an also be a cia agent, supermans cousin...no no no no no no no no no. this isn't a re-imagining, its a total abortion. its a miscarriage, its a speck of bloodied tur floating aimlessly about your comode. if theres a brain among anyone who sees this movie advertised, do not see it, do not tae your kis to see it because they will only be confused. they'll turn into one of those kids who thinks that voltron is a cheap immitation of the power rangers. for the love of all that is decent and holy, let this piece of shit swirl and flush once and for all.
testicleez out -
Ok, it's superman. So fucking what? A fictional hero. It's a movie. A story. Fans are having a hissy fit over this. Superman was my hero as a child. But not now, but I do think this movie would raise a lot of eye brow's and it'd be a kick ass trilogy. It would fucking own. By the way lmfao...instead of having brendan fraser as clark kent/superman...people can take a look at Michael C. Hall from HBO's Six Feet Under yes, (the gay guy named David). Excluding that character situation. Picture him as Clark Kent, AKA Superman. With his hair dyed black and new style LMAO...I think he could get the Kent character down...maybe could look good as superman. Just a thought for those of you who don't like Brendan Fraser or...LOL Freddie Prince Jr.??? lmao laters.
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You lot are truly creative conservatives. Harry Potter the film was crap exactly because it stuck literally to the book. Supes was originally the Last Son of Krypton but even that didn't hold-General Zod came along, Supergirl (though they then killed her off in Crisis), the dog; they then reinvented themselves with Superboy (the original one) etc.
This new treatment will reinvent it once more and I bet the next generation of geeks will complain that Krypton gets blown up, Luthor has no superpowers etc. -
One final point is-do you geekboys want nerdy Clark or the present "modern" Clark? If Clark can be changed so can Luthor (on screen)
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Hey I just read the reveiw of J.J.s script and I am in complete shock. If the Warner Bros. can't see what a mistake this would be. Surely D.C. Comics wouldn't let them change so many fundamental elements of Supermans history. I'm all for a fresh take on Superman but does J.J. have to "reimagine" so much. Why dosen't he just come up with his own character and leave Superman the HELL alone.
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I don't know if that script (or anything even *close* to it will ever actually get made), but just reading the synopsis--and y'all's responses to it--is almost worth the price of admission! I have not laughed this hard, since wild lemurs ran amuck in my Fruit of the Looms... :D Personally, I can't WAIT until I get to see his treatment for the "Wonder Woman" movie! HOO-ah! (I'm picturing a thong-wearing, paraplegic wereowl from Venus; I mean, why NOT?)
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Ya know what really does it for me? What truly gives this pile of crap from another world it's distinct, caustic stench? The entire time I was reading Mori's review I could'nt get the image of a Keanu Reeves in the Superman suit out of my mind. Talk about wanting, no, CRAVING a frontal lobotamy!
What? Don't tell me you have'nt already heard. Well I dont know how to break it to ya, but, the folks over at Coming Attractions have announced that Keanu (MATRIX) Reeves is in negotiations to play Supes in this film. Dont ask me to explain the logic in wanting to have him as the new Superman, although it beats the HELL out of Brenden Fraisure or Nicholas Cage. ( Perhaps it's some WB's execs idea of wittiness to have another Reeve/s continue the tradition of Superman roles? )
Maybe at the end we'll all come-to and realize its all a computer generated false reality...but I dont think we could be that lucky -
Oh, and *another* thing: Why not change the name of this proposed flick to "Super Crack-Eating Sky Baron VS. the Oscillating Macro-Wombats of Area 12"? Throw in a few model houses getting stomped on by a guy in a rubber weasel suit, a sumo wrestling zombie horticulturalist, and some flying dildos for good measure--it'll be a smash hit in Japan, if nothing else... And I bet the *sequel* would just write itself! Hmmm, maybe AOL/Time-Warner will hire me to launch their next franchise!
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Here's the provisional cast and opening scene of the movie - you heard it here first.
Superman - Steve Guttenberg
Momma Kent - Elizabeth Taylor
Father Kent - Richard Roundtree
Lois Lane - Pamela Anderson Lee
Lex Luthor - Mark Wahlberg
Jimmy Olson - Billy Dee Williams
Jor -al - Mickey Rooney
The Warner Brothers logo appears, then the screen turns black. The words appear " Summer 1971 "
Cue an overhead shot of a small farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. It is night, with only a candle on the porch providing light. In the distance moaning can be heard.
A tracking shot leads us into the barn, where, amidst the haystacks, an elderly couple are going at it hot and heavy, canine style, to the strains of Elvis's " Wooden Heart ".
Mr Kent: (excitedley) SAY MAH NAME BITCH!
(Mrs Kent doesn't respond, instead screams wildly.)
Mr Kent: Shut yo' mouf!
Mrs Kent: But .... I'm talkin' bout...
(Mr Kent stares out the window of the barn as a small pod lands in the nearby cornfield.)
Mrs Kent : talkin' bout.....
(Suddenly Mr.Kent looks directly into the camera and grins like a Harlem pimp)
Mr. Kent: SUUUP-OOOO-MAN! Can ya dig it?
(The pair jump to their feet and race toward the field, buck naked
Cut to an overhead shot of the scene, with the couple running at speed towards the pod, Kent clutching at a purple thong to save his blushes.
The Title - Superman - rushes onto the screen.
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Just as the pain starts to subside from the farce that was Batman and Robin; ( I know its been a while but it cut me deep)they throw this crap at us. There is no way this film sould be made; can't WB poach some marvel staff in a sort of, hire some talent drive?
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this is a movie about the bizarro superman.
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I hope the rest of that sentence wasn't too important.
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Sep 26, 2002 12:12:59 PM CDT
Superman is Boring, What Makes Superheros Work, and the Marvel v
by nocureforfools
wow, this sounds like a steaming pile of shit. even though i never really liked Superman that much, this just makes him unbearable. But aside from that, why is Superman boring? beacuse there is nothing compelling about a guy who is invincable. absoultely nothing. you can't relate to that, it's impossible. Batman you can relate to because he's got "issues" and, underneath the gadgets, intellect and martial arts expertise, he's just a man, who could easily be taken down by a well placed bullet. he's fallible, in other words, so he works. but there's nothing cool about a guy who can do anyting he wants and the only thing that can stop him is a green rock. it's boring. BUT, you are totally right in saying that he does work, as most superheros do, in the context of simple morality tales wrapped up with action and magic. the WB cartoons are perfect examples of this. the Batman cartoon is probably the greatest American action/adventure cartoon ever made (since the Japanese are at least 50 years ahead of American animation in terms of style, technique and storytelling). it truly has depth and human feeling and a sense of storytelling, tension, drama, etc. plus it has a great Retro to NeoNoir atmosphere that works really well. even their take on Anime with the Batman Beyond is pretty good: they don't try to mimic anime/manga, but use some of the basic set-pieces and tropes but translate it into the American pulp style and it works. likewise, the Superman cartoon and the Justice League cartoon are fantastic. contrast this with the film versions of DC characters which a have all, more or less, completely sucked. i never bought Michael Keaton as Batman, and theres no point in even discussing the later films in which Batman gets in touch with his flamboyantly gay side. now the Marvel thing is intersting, becuse their recent films have been fantastic and really in keeping with what makes their heros great. much more, in fact, then either their comics or their animated shows do! both of which completely suck ass (except X-Statix, which i love and is the only Marvel comic worth reading). it's a werid dichotomy: DC has a higher level of quality with their animation and comics (especially the animation inspired titles like Gotham Girls and their more "adult" stuff like Vertigo with Tokyo Pop or what have you) while Marvel is the direct opposite -- their comics and animation sucks, but their films are really good. it's weird. if only the two could meet in the middle! ah fuck it. i'm moving to Japan soon anyway, so who cares...
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I am not a fanatic. BUT, I have always liked Superman and the many related versions. I absolutely hate it when the legend gets messed with like the new WB movie script.
Be creative. Lex Luther from Krypton? Come on. -
I really would have thought that something as "american" as superman would be a top priority, that is to say, somthing they should not fuck up. I know Im saying everything that y'all have said above me, but I had to lend my puny voice to this outcry. Cheers to a Superman movie. Jeers to the atrocity that this sounds like.
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And might bankrupt Warner Bros...hmm, maybe they should make it.
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I mean, why even bother to remake Superman if you
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I mean some of the stuff sounds really cool like the rag-tag group of evil Kryptonians wreaking havoc and American landmarks being blown apart, the fight between this TY-ZOR character and Superman sounds neat, but what's up with Lex Luthor being a CIA Agent/turned President/and then turns out to be some bad guy from Krypton? And what's up with Clark already meeting Lois at a party in his teen years? Wasn't it Lana he met and not Lois till years later. By the way where is Lana in this script anyway? And why does Pa Kent have to die? I mean it just sounds like another "SPIDER-MAN" exit of an old actor. It really sounds sucky. I dunno...if Brett Ratner decides to make this lump of shit he better make some BIG-time changes to this right now because I think alot of fans of Superman and non-comic book fans will be disappointed at how badly done he's been made out to be, but there are a few things I like in this script. It's probably a good direction to show Jimmy as a fag I mean I always thought he was a little queer, also it's cool to see Clark being displayed as Peter Parker being a dork, kind of awkward kid who is not loved by anyone, only a few, and I think it's cool to see a new villian (one that's made up). However, the fight in Gotham City thing sounds too much of "Batman Vs. Superman" I mean why would Superman fight in Gotham City anyway? It's gloomy, dark, and wouldn't Batman be on patrol if some ninja-cape-wearing freak came into town? I mean this whole script shits out badness whereever it goes. If there was a lot of rewrites and alot of redos it would be an awesome movie, but right now send it to hell and let the red and blue boy keep on flying in the comic books.
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heh....hehe...hehehe....teeheee...chuckle...haha...Haha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I think my rectum has just prolapsed. No really, what's the real script about? What do you mean, that's the real script? you having a laugh? SERIOUSLY!?!?!? All of a sudden, Judge Dredd didn't seem too bad.
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Sep 26, 2002 5:47:46 PM CDT
UncleBadAss... I never said Darkseid originated in the Superman
by ivan_mtl
His first appearance did occur in the pages of SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN (a brief cameo). Since, at that time, it was considered part of the 'Superman family' of books, he does in fact have a history with the character (or, at the very least, Metropolis). Also, there are two specific appearances of Superman (in the pages of THE FOREVER PEOPLE and the aforementioned book), that are generally considered to be amongst his best stories (one, of which, is actually included in the hardcover "The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told" - published in 1987) because they reveal much about how Superman views himself and of how others view him on Earth. As in the comic, Superman could be torn between remaining amongst people of his kind (in 'Super'town, no less), or returning to aid the helpless humans of his adopted homeworld. I do agree with you, UncleBadAss, that there is A LOT of back story connected with the Fourth World books and characters, but I am assuming that George Lucas' 'hommage' to Jack 'King' Kirby's work leaves little hope for any faithful movie adaption of the New Gods themselves (the viewing public would just see it as a rip-off of Star Wars). Anyway, I think when you get past Lex Luthor and Braniac, the general public probably doesn't know very many (if any) of the rest of Superman's rogue's gallery (I'm hard pressed to think of any myself - except, perhaps Mongul).
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Sep 26, 2002 6:06:14 PM CDT
Yeah, too be honest, this actually sounds really, really good
by silenceoffreedom
I'm not sure if everyone's just mad because this is a new take, and all the readers of the comic books can't stand anything different, but I think this script sounds excellent. With any luck, it'll be a lot better than Spider-Man turned out to be. It's really weird, every plot twist and story idea that Moriarty described as hating sounds really cool. I hope they make this script, because guess what, they've ALREADY MADE superman films based on the "classic" material. It's time for a change.
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This script could make a decent movie on its own, but it is not a Superman movie. I'm not a total purist, and I have no problem with changing stuff as long as their is a good reason, but arbitrarily altering some of the most fumdamental facts of one of the most beloved franchises EVER just to make more merchandising opportunities or to make it easier to stretch out three movies is NOT a good idea. I never thought that even Warner Bros could be this STUPID, IGNORANT, and totally oblivious to the fact that NO ONE will by the merchandise because NO ONE WILL SEE THE MOVIE IF THEY USE THIS SCRIPT!!!!!
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I know I have no way of contacting Warner Bros. or anything, but I really think as a framework for a Superman movie, this script is salvagable. I think if you read it apart from preconceived notions of Superman, it is a great action/adventure epic. The bad part is when you start to size it up against, what, 80 plus years of Superman mythology?
Okay, firstly, Krypton exploded. Make THAT part of the script. But if that takes away from the 3 film arc Abrams came up with, one solution is that Superman doesn't KNOW it exploded. In fact, he knows little of his origins until the Kryptonians show up. AH, what about that? Well, maybe they set out looking for the son of Jor-El before the planet's explosion and they too are unaware of it's fate. Think about it...at the end of the first film, Superman has beaten the Kryptonians and set out in search of his homeworld (now that through them he is aware of it). Film 2 could revolve around his journey and the Kryptonian's escape and pursuit of him. The climax could be the capture of Superman. Film 3 could revolve around the discovery that Krypton is gone and the final resolution to the conflict between Superman and Ty-Zor as well as Superman's decision of where-do-I-go-from-here?? Get rid of all the prophecy BS; Jor-El discovers that Kata-Zor's machinations will lead to the destruction of Krypton and saves his son. A vengful Kata-Zor send Ty-Zor and some troops after Kal-El, but Jor-El's technology was clever enough to have his son's ship "lose them". So they go on a very long trek to find him. Okay, next Lex is NOT a Kryptonian. If there needs to be a toe-to-toe battle between them, DC already provided a context---a battle armor for Lex (or was that just for the Super Powers toy collection?) Lex can be acorrupt government person. Heck, he was just a supervillian initially, then John Byrne's reimagining turned him into a corrupt corporate big-wig. Lois and Clark cast him in a similar role. Smallville has him in a similar role, but as Clark's friend initially. We can play with Luthor's story a little. Show plenty of Krypton, heck make it look like Naboo for all I care. But it can be backstory, it can even surface throughout the movie(s) as the backstory pertains to NOW events. Heck, in film 2's quest through space, maybe they can even encounter Bizzaro and Bizzaro-world. Why not? Film 3 could have Mxyzptlk show up to offer to replace Krypton for ol' Kal-El in return for having free reign on Earth.
So that's what I say...make these alterations, keep a lot of the Clark growing up story and most of the action sequences listed in this script and I think it'd be a great Superman flick for the new century. (P.S. out of respect, they could cast Christopher Reeve as a Kryptonian elder or some one on Earth who gives Clark advise at a pivitol moment in his life.)
So what does everyone think?? -
I almost forgot, there is nothing wrong with the appearance of a gay character as homosexual's are rather common place these days, but to change Jimmy into a homosexual to be contemporary and edgy is stupid. Why? Why make him gay? Why stop there?? Make Superman bi-sexual; then you can have a nifty love-triangle between Clark, Lois, and Jimmy. I mean, come on!
By the way, here is why Lex NEEDS to be human. At the core of his character through every reimagining has been the fact that he is a man who craves, needs, desires POWER above all else. And as human's go, he gets quite a bit of it. Then he encounters the Man of Steel himself. Here is a man with power far, far beyond anything Lex can achieve. And what makes it even more infuriating is the fact that Superman has no desire to use his immense power for personal gain. He could be King of Earth if he so chose, but he doesn't. This is what drives the struggle between Lex and Superman. Superman is physically powerful and is also no dummy. Lex's deviousness and power-hunger sets him against Superman and makes him a much more interesting foe than someone who can go toe-to-toe with him. -
Hmm...you know, I don't think it would be wise for the folks at Warner Bros. to try and build a house on a shaky foundation (probably explains why nobody is rushing to produce a sequel to Tim Burton's 're-imagining' of the Planet of the Apes). In this case, you really don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
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This film seems already ripe for Mystery Science Theatre 3000.
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Sep 26, 2002 8:22:07 PM CDT
Oh... and getting back to Founder's suggestion to use Darkse
by ivan_mtl
... wouldn't it be nice to see Christopher Reeves in the role of Metron who (in my proposed storyline) just may (or may not) be an 'amalgam' of Jor-el and the Braniac computer responsible for unraveling the secret of the Anti-Life Equation - which leads to the destruction of the planet Krypton and the birth of New Genesis and Apokalips.
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Sep 26, 2002 8:27:38 PM CDT
Excellent Script - Raw, New, Apocolyptic...really three or four
by stickyrice
I want to begin by first addressing the horde of naysayers:
Let it go.
Clark Kent need not wear a fedora, Lex can live without a bald head, and who cares if Krypton isn't the same color as the comic original? Superman is an archetype (look it up) in the American pscyhe. He symbolizes one thing and one thing only: Power. We never grew up in schoolyards using Superman as the measuring stick for how "good" something could be, rather, how powerful (i.e. "Oh yeah? Well Superman could run faster than that, Superman could survive that..." etc ad infinitum). Ergo, I thought the opening scene in this script was remarkable. Total apocolyptic mayhem on a grand, grand scale. It's like the tital wave scene in Deep Impact being spliced with characters from The Matix. Impressive. I thought the idea of an animated suit (that puts Clark on, rather than vice versa) brilliant. As for the, ahem, mythos of Superman...
The canon would much better be served by a fresh, edgy intepretation, not an echo of earlier efforts. Who cares if Lex is an alien? Who cares if Krypton plays a significant plot-part? Who cares if Jor-El met ma and pa Kent (Personally, I found the idea of him taking a space trip there to, ahem, adopt them for his son, very cool)? If the director and cinematography are the right people for the job, if they keep up a terrific pace, throw you the twists in this script, don't get too sappy (a'la Spiderman), and get the CGI that only a quarter of a billion dollars can summon (READ: THE APOCOLYPSE ON SCREEN), every one of you will see this movie and LOVE IT.
For the purists: Were any of you offended by the off-beat portrayal of Superman by Frank Miller in the now-considered-classic Dark Knight illustrated novel? Me neither.
The basics about Superman are this:
1) He comes from another planet (Krypton)
2) He's very powerful
3) His love interest is Lois Lane
Beyond that, it's poetic license, and kudos to those who penned this script. Superman going to the Andes and hearing the cries for help of the world? Awesome. Superman enlisting the United Nations to help him defeat other Kryptonions? Awesome (Albeit hokey, given they lack the guts to do likewise w/ Hussein). Lex Luter working for Project Blue Book and an alien? Awesome. Convoluted, but irreverant and cool.
In the year 2103, they'll probably be making yet another Superman (this latest interpretation will be what, number 4?). He probably won't wear a fedora either. Sorry to break that to you. -
I'm been thinking about this a lot. It's the worst thing I've ever read in regards to something from the geek part of my life. Never in my wildest dreams could I have concieved a worse idea then Lex Luthor the Kryptonian CIA agent. But you know what, maybe we want Warner Bros. to make this movie. Why? Well, they'll throw a lot of money at it. The article says about $400 million, I wouldn't be surprised if the number was even higher. And the thing will tank. I know I'll be boycotting it, I'm sure many of you will too. I'm really not curious to see it. I don't need to do that to myself. And if they throw that much money at a picture and it tanks, imagine what it will do to that god aweful company known as Warner Bros, specifically their DC Comics movies branch. They'll be dead! Destroyed! Gone! The worst superhero movie ever made, yes, but it will stop so many others! So make the POS Warner Bros, and burn.
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Let me get this straight. "Jor-EL senses that his son gets killed from all the way on Krypton, then kills himself and somehow finds himself in heaven, where he meets Kal-EL. He then proceeds to argue with his son, thereby convincing him to return to his body because THE PROPHECY has yet to be fulfilled?" I'm actually laughing my ass off as I write this. I mean, does this not insult the hell out of your intelligence? I'm sorry JJ, but I'm not buying it, nor should anyone who has advanced past the age of 5.
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I can see it now.....chris reeves does a cameo as jor el and whoopie goldberg is Guinan as they have a hot biracial secret affair that produces a race of superkids lead by Pauley shore
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If we really want to show our disapprovement of this project (as it stands), let's all not start buying anything that's associated with it. Dolls, action figures, collectibles, whatever. Let's not even go to see the movie.
The only way to hurt them is to hurt their pockets.
http://www.kalel.com -
ok, my own personal opinion is that, as a generic sci-fi script. it works! it could be a pretty cool movie. however, and this is responding mostly to murdoch's argument, IT'S NOT SUPERMAN!! for claiming to be a part of the superman mythos, this script is a piece of shit. and that's the point the rest of these people people are trying to make i'm sure. it's not that they changed a few things. you have to change a little thing here or there in order to cram 60 years worth of storyline into a 2 hour film, or even a 6 hour trilogy. the main problem is, that they changed just about everything other than a couple names and places. the only thing really linking the ol' boy-in-blue that we've all come to know and love with this "re-invented" superman is the name "SUPERMAN!" if wb wants to make this movie, then go ahead maybe it'll work out, just don't call it superman.
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Sep 26, 2002 10:52:36 PM CDT
The title mentions superman, but where the hell is he!?
by lupinelunacy
ok, my own personal opinion is that, as a generic sci-fi script. it works! it could be a pretty cool movie. however, and this is responding mostly to murdoch's argument, IT'S NOT SUPERMAN!! for claiming to be a part of the superman mythos, this script is a piece of shit. and that's the point the rest of these people people are trying to make i'm sure. it's not that they changed a few things. you have to change a little thing here or there in order to cram 60 years worth of storyline into a 2 hour film, or even a 6 hour trilogy. the main problem is, that they changed just about everything other than a couple names and places. the only thing really linking the ol' boy-in-blue that we've all come to know and love with this "re-invented" superman is the name "SUPERMAN!" if wb wants to make this movie, then go ahead maybe it'll work out, just don't call it superman.
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It's worth noting that in the record-smashing Spiderman, the script writers broke from the comic original and had Parker shooting webs organically, rather than building a web shooter himself. In fact, they made nothing of Parker's science skills. From what I hear, the upcoming Hulk film, certain to be a major hit, takes great liberties with the original comic.
Hollywood is a machine that regurgitates what works. This new Superman script is clearly an amalgamation between the older Superman II, the Matix ("You are the one the prophecy foretold about..."), and the X-Files and/or Phantom Menace. I love to see these posters groaning in disbelief about Kal-El in the afterworld telling informing Superman while having no problem with Kal-El making a post-mortem appearance in the original Superman ("Son, it is forbidden to interfer with human history"). Is that really much of a stretch? As for Lex Luther, no one is going to beat Gene Hackman's classic, hilarious portrayal, so you might as well make him an alien.
Oh, and a message to the producers: Cast Colin Farrell as Superman. Jude Law is too thin. -
Or have incriminating evidence of some kind. This year, give him a watch for Christmas, WB!
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To all Warner Bro's Executives:
The next superman should contiue on from Christopher Reeves movies. Using old Blue Screen elements they could digitally remove or create a graphic version of Christopher reeves and comibine it into the opening scene., it would be easy to accomplished.
This would show that after superman 4, an alien agreesor comes to destryoy the world superman must face his worst enemy and thus this would have Superman being injured beyond belief by another alien agressor, but becoming vicotrious. After superman is injured he disappears. People assume he died in some huge explosion or something caused by the death of the alien aggressor.
Now before you make any comments, hear me out.
Christopher Reeves symoblises superman, he even wrote two of the films. he was the man of steel and even now he show true courage and strength.
This next movie has to show respect of that. He was the true Superman. Even in his condition he is still in movie business, as a director and i know he did make another film.
So the beginining of the new superman film. Should be a tribute to him and First show the battle that ended supermans career and then show present time.
With Christopher reeves (repirsing the role of superman, in an injured and aged version thou) in the fortess of solitude. confined to his wheel chair, using the power of the his fortress he can be Reborn as a new and improved superman, for a time when the world needs superman again. Thats where superman will be replaced by a new younger actor. This is explained by some advanced kryptoian device that rejuvinates superman. Giving him a new look, a new body and perhaps some new powers.
The movie should be a dedication to Christopher reeves, to his courage and a percentage of its profits should go to research for curing people with his condtion.
I HOPE THE FILM COMPANIES HEAR THIS OUT.
__________________
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I am a new writer looking for that break in the film industry. If you like any of my concepts them please email me.
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Why is this man still getting work. Is it not enough that he remade Manhunter to look like Silence of the Lambs as opposed to say....something original. Now they've given him Superman. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE ORIGINAL. Stop remaking perfectly good films pleaaaaaase.
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This has to be the longest talkback ever. Very funny
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I suggest that everyone check out the story then use the "You Tell Us" link to post your opinions and views on this travesty. Anywhere that you can find to post your views should be used. Maybe the WB will realize that you can't mess with an American Icon. Thank you for your time.
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...joking!!!!!!! It blows goats!!
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NOT!!!!!! I dont think I have ever read such a huge pile of Shite in my life... I personaly think some one should stop Warner from fucking up any more super hero franchises. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. If this film is made it WILL be boycoted and bood out of theatres accross the world GUARANTEED. Warner obviously do not care about this franchise or any other for that matter and they certainly dont care about the fans its all about the MONEY for them....DEATH TO WARNER. Alittle harsh iknow but it had to be said. Simmer.
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America as a nation has seen the power a popular uprising can have to fight, an "all powerful" enemy.
And the voices these people HAVE been heard countless times.
Thanks to the people whe are now bleesed with a better society. Child Labor laws, the Civil Rights movements and even the creation of this country have happened because a group of dedicated individuals said "No" to an injustice.
We have a RIGHT to express our opinion.
Do you remember that lone student who stood in front of that column Tanks in Tianamen Square, and stopped it. He demontrated with that single act of defiance, the power a single individual can have.
So in order to fight this abomination we have to protest.
And NOW is the time to do so.
Here are some ideas, please feel free to contribute.
To Concerned fans:
1) Tell Friends, family almost as a joke...and then mention this site. Trust me it works.
2) Spread the words in movie forums and chats.
3) Sign the petitions, send e-mails.
To Comic book fans:
1) When you go to the store to pick up your weekly stack, bring up this topic....and then mention this site.
2) When you go to comic book conventions, bring up this topic in the panels. Specially the DC Comics panels
Harry:
1) Start a more organized internet campaign to save Superman. We need web headers, and even a web page. Harry you have the infrastructure to do this.
2) Keep an ongoing thread right here on the front page
For Webmasters:
1) Please keep the pressure. If the Farscape fans could get their plight in CNN so can we.
2) Share resources and talk to each other. It is time to put old grudges behind.
And no more negative talk about losing the battle.
And PLEASE be respectfull. We need to remember that the one who stands to lose Millions of dollars is WB. We have to make them see that they have another "Batman and Robin" in their hands.
Any other ideas? -
This is totally typical Hollywood thinking. Let's update one of the classic stories in American history to make it "modern". Why does Hollywood do this? Is it an overblown sense of their own superiority? What gives them the right? Superman has been a part of Americana for 60+ years. Sorry, but I don't think these yahoos are in any way qualified to mess with it. Peters? You see what happens when he doesn't have Gruber as a moderating influence. "Uh, put spider robots in cuz spider robots iz cool".Please. Ratner? Okay, Red Dragon looks awesome. But this guy is primarily known for music videos and movies starring Chris Tucker. Abrams? So you have a guy writing a "hip" and "cool" TV show so you give him the keys to one of the biggest licenses of all time. Stupid. Alias might be hot bot let's not forget this is the guy who also gave us "Felicity". NEWS FLASH: If you lose half you audience when your lead actress cuts her hair THE SHOW SUCKS! This is the guy we turn to to bring Supes into the 21st century? As you can see, that was a BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD idea. Giving the reins to a Spielberg,a Shyamalan, or a Raimi would be a much better. Because they not only have the skills to pull it off but would have the respect for the source material. But why should Hollywood care about that. These guys are hot NOW! They need something that is hot NOW! Bah! I get so irritated by Hollywood's stupidity. I can't wait for this movie to come out so I can actively boycott it. But maybe I'm being too negative. Maybe somebody somewhere will see this impending train wreck and put on the emergency breaks. But I seriously doubt it.
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Too much! Thats gotta be the funniest thing I've heard yet. Come on, guy. Everybody knows the only true Superman is Kirk Allyn, George Reeves or Dean Cain. It's R-E-E-V-E, by the way. Christopher Reeve. Ass-hat.
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It does.
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How can one take a story that has been around for years and years and years, and then take out key elements of that story and/or add completely new and, in my opinion, ridiculous elements that make no sense in adding. You cant take a story like this that is SO well known, and then completly change things up, and expect people to say,"Hey that's better than the original." All this crap with some prophesy and Krypton NOT exploding, and umm...oh yeah... LEX LUTHOR WITH SUPER POWERS!?! Its crazy, its not right. Your trying to fix things that were never broken to begin with. So i just hope that you are 100% sure of what you put in to this movie, it has the greatest potential of being a kickass film, but if you start messin with stuff that shouldnt be messed with, beware of viewer backlash. And I dont mean just any viewer, I mean the Superman aficionados that have made this character part of their everyday lives. So good luck, I hope for the best.
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By the looks of it, this is a total abomination. Everyone I have told about this screenplay thinks I am playing some cruel joke. Sure WB, you'll make your money off of the lame action figures and Krypton playset, but come on. This is just pathetic. Re-imagining is one thing, raping it is another. Wake up and smell the CRAP! Look at Batman & Robin! That was terrible! WB, I hate you so much. And to think, I even sat through a few live tapings of your early sitcoms when your network was starting out. You make me sick.
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Sep 27, 2002 3:56:45 PM CDT
ok, so I'm a little late in the game on this one, been out o
by tv casualty
in the entire, long, arduous history of bad fucking idea, this is without question, the WORST bad fucking idea I've ever heard of. It smells so bad it repels the homeless. It makes alcoholics instantly fear-sweat the booze out. It makes a strong man cry. On the horrible-fucking-concept scale of 1 to 10, with ten being the worst, I give this 800 million billion gazillion. Dear god, do not ruin Superman as we know him by making this festering, steaming pile of non-creative sewage ever appear in my local multiplex, or I swear to GOD I will take out a contract on you WB bastards and cancel your fucking tickets. I'm serious here. Very, very serious. Lex Luthor - an alien? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm off to Hollywood with a biiiiiig box of eggs, and I'm going straight to the WB lot.
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If this movie is made, it is a sign of the Apocalypse. And personally, I think the Apocalypse would be better than going to see this movie. I swear to God, these idiots cannot be seriously considering this. I mean, c'mon!
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OH GOD! DEAR GOD! (SOUND OF ROPE TIGHTENING AROUND NECK)...(SNAP)...(SILENCE)...
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yup. that sums it up.
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Sep 27, 2002 5:02:03 PM CDT
This script really, really,really, Good God Allmighty Really suc
by rlee
Who in the blue hell do those jerkwads at WB think they are. If they think that they can just rewrite one of the greatest stories of all time just so they can include some alien planets and some crappy karate scenes and a bald headed, knuckle dragging lex luthor flying around the city, then they have lost their freaking minds. I was extremely excited when I heard about a new superman movie but now I think im gonna be sick. Ill just wait for another rainbow brite movie to spend my ten bucks on. I think Ozzy said it best, "Youre all completly mad.".
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test
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In my 9 years of being a resident of the world wide web, never have I seen such an uproar as this. The Superman thing has struck a nerve in people (including myself) and finally we're seeing the PEOPLE have a say and an influence in what gets made in this shit town known as Hollywood. Personally I'm not a huge fan of Superman. I've never collected the comics but I ADORE the amazing Donner movie. It doesn't get much better than that. But I feel Warner has gone too far, and if I may quote Blade in Blade 2, "you obviously do not know who you are FUCKING WIT!" It's time the people are heard and the suits fucking listen, because they seem so hell bent on making that green, they forgot you have to make something fans want to see first. And we're not just talking comic book fans. The Donner movie hooked almost everybody, and those people are going to be confused as to why Warner is changing what has obviously worked in the past. It's pretty disgusting that most of the people who greenlit this turd haven't even SEEN the original Superman, nor know anything about the origin story. Why else would they think Lex Luther being an alien was a good idea? Now they see the fans are outraged and they're scrambling to set things right. I signed the online petition and it's up to over 6,000 signatures. Now that may not seem like much, but just imagine if every one of those people told at least one OTHER person and that person told somebody else and so on. And it's a loooooong way til 2004, so if you don't think that list will at least quadruple by then... well you may as well put on a suit and go work for Warner brothers. Pathetic.
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MARVEL! Make this movie pleeeaaseee!!!!!!!!!!
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This new Superman movie is going to suck worse than Superman 4: the Quest for Peace. I want to point out the obvious stupiditty of that guy who wrote this script:Remember the part where Superman dies saving Lois from drowning in a pool? He died from exposure to a chunk of Kryptonite, right? Well I might be wrong, but kryptonite only came into existence when Krypton EXPLODED! Since Krypton never exploded in this movie, there should be no Kryptonite! Moron.
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Krypton never exploded? Lex Luthor a Kryptonian? Superman with an "alien costume"? I'd rather sit through a three day "Lois and Clark" marathon than watch this piece of crap.
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Does this movie make the comics bad? No. Does it make the old Superman movies bad? No. Why not play around with Sup's origins and such? As a person that is not a huge comic fan (99% of the population) I think this movie sounds like a good time. I think that the popularity of getting all worked up about how "awful" this movie sounds has resulted in a lot of groupthink in this talkback. I mean honestly, there are far worse movies out there than what this one would be.
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I never know why studios pay thousands of dollars for somebody to write a script of a character like superman, when there are hundreds of classic comics, which already capture that character and world so well. Kingdom Come, would be a fantastic film. Yes the die hard fans would have read the comic, but the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter both proved that to have an audience already loving the material is only a good thing.
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First of all, that script is all over the place with flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks.
What a hackneyed mess. I hope they don't do a damned thing. I can't stand to see another franchise get raped.
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This is actually a good script. BUT IT IS NOT SUPERMAN!
I love Superman just as much as anyone, but I will not watch something that is this pitiful.
Change all the names, change the places, and you got yourself a totally new superhero. You dont need to call him Superman, or Kal-el. -
In McG's upcoming story of the Bible, Jesus isn't crucified. He smites the Romans with laser beams from his eyes! How cool is that? (Someone shoot him. Shoot him now.)
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Everyone seems so down on this script for only one reason, it is dispelling the STALE old ideas of Superman. But let's face it: Superman was made a long, long time ago and is about as fresh as a cat turd that's been sitting out in the sun for far too long. Like I said: It's stale. Old. Boring. And it's about time someone came and looked at this so-called Superman in a new and fresh light. Sure, some of the ideas presented here might be a little far fetched.. but I know another movie that had some "far-fetched" ideas nobody thought would work, too. It was called, "THE MATRIX". Everyone of you people probably thought any movie with KEE-NU wouldn't pass muster and you know what? YOU WERE WRONG.
Now it's time to sit back and let go of the old and uniteresting Superman of yesterday and welcome some fresh new changes. Lex Luthor was never a credible threat to Superman. He was just some bald boob with no powers. It's only fitting that Superman have an arch-rival that can match him, I say. For me, I say give this script a chance. All you people do is dig and dig and whine, well it's about time some of you open your eyes and realize some people out there know a thing or two about a thing or two and might be onto something. Something big.
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You're obviously in the minority on your view MR SMART, because 98 percent of this talkback thinks the themes in the original Superman STILL HOLD UP. Why was Spiderman so successful, SMART GUY? Go think about it for a while after you take off your "I AM A SLAVE OF WARNER BROTHERS' MEDIOCRITY" t-shirt. Always amusing.
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Being a 35 year old comics enthusiast (married with two kids, and a professional to boot) I REFUSE to pay one red cent to see a Superman movie that Shits all over the traditional origin and mythos. Spiderman did well because it stayed true (well 80% true)to the origin. Lex Luthor a CIA agent!!?!?!? ARE THEY ALL ON CRACK????? Warner Bros sent the BATMAN franchise to hell with Shumacker -- and it looks like Superman will follow. FLUSH this script before it stinks up the whole nation!!! Fuck it. I'm breaking out my Christopher Reaves videos. At least they are true to form.
LATE
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First off, to all you people who think Spider-Man was a great film, GIVE ME A BREAK. The story was a mixture of true to origin and something in the distant future. Then there were the really weak and cheap looking special effects. I never realized Peter Parker turned from human into a little brown terd as he leaps from building to building. LAME.
Anyway, the Superman script is only a preliminary draft and may look nothing like this dribble when it's finally shot. So just relax a little and see what happens instead reacting like someone is giving you a wedgie. -
I am not claiming to be a Superfan, but certain aspects of a young man's life are undeniable. ANY male aged 22 to 32 has certain memories of childhood: Star Wars, Superman, the campy Batman TV series. Certain things can not be changed. George Lucas isn't going to wake up tomorrow and decide that Darth Vader should be Han's father instead. Some things CANNOT be changed.
This movie blows. It blows huge. Maybe Neo and Yoda can make cameos. Lex from Krypton? Please. Lex a CIA agent? Good grief. Is one of the other Kryptonians named Gordon Shumway (ALF)?
If you can't stick to some basic Superman facts that even half-hearted fans like me know, don't bother making a movie at all.
Clark's powers slowly manifest. Even Smallville has that right. The WB show has some quirks that were not easy to stomach right away, but as time has gone on, I refuse to work Tuesday nights so I can see the show.
Did you get that? Small quirks. Liked Lex and Clark being friends in Smallville. Geoegraphically Smallville KS is nowhere near Metropolis (NY) but characters on Smallville make weekend trips to Metropolis. We can overlook details like that for good stories.
This movie will make NO money. No one who considers themselves any type of Superman fan will even consider seeing it.
This is the worst idea since Greedo shot first. And its not much ahead of Yoda going off Neo-style on Darth Tyranus. Take some advice from Lucas...making major changes like that aren't a good idea. True fans remember the way things are supposed to be. And somethings are better left untouched. If WB can't make an accurate Superman movie and keep it interesting, don't waste time on it. Give us something new and original. This isn't Superman, no matter how hard you try to tell us it is. -
I cant believe that a movie like this is even being considered to made.This will not restore a franchise like the TV show Smallvile is doing but it would be the final nail in the coffin that i thought batman and robin hammered in. In these times we need the character to remain true to what for years he has represented Truth, Justice and the American way. Why does the 70s Superman movie work so well because it has heart and emotion and respected the legend and decades of readers. Even non fans of Superman know the legend you might have never picked up a comic in your life and you will still who superman is and his story.Thats why you call something a legend. This movie is not for the people its for the merchandisers who want to cash in the name. Im not against making money but i think you could money off something everyone wants to see instead of something that everyone is dreading to see. If you want success like Spiderman or Xmen look at what worked both those movies They stayed true to the heart of the stories. Why make a movie that will go against everything that the legend of superman is .You should take a look at Smallville it has the heart of the legend. In 5 minutes of that show alone has more of what superman is then the entire so called movie considered being made. This script this movie doesnt even deserve the name superman It spits on the legend it spits on the fans. If you want success dont forget what makes it a legend.
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I think I'm in too much shock to even start to put a coherent statement about this script together.....being a Superman fan since birth....oh my god, what can I say???? I actually feel ill after reading about this script. Hey, I'm all for creativity and actually get a kick out of Smallville! But this story is a freakin' travesty - sick, sick, sick. I never post my opinions; usually just take a look at what everyone else is saying...but I just couldn't bear to leave my feelings unsaid. Pleeeeese WB - do not make this movie. And if you do I'll be forced to go live in the Yukon or Antarctica, as far away from civilization as I can get for fear that one look at this movie and I will surely burst into flames. I dread this script as Superman dreads Kryptonite.
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THIS was the feel-good, faithful script that a bunch of Warner execs decided to go with? Were they Warner execs who even knew Thing One about Superman?? Decided to start working on "the lot" not because the Warners reputation or its body of successful films they'd done before (including, uh, some actual Superman-"Superman" films), just got a nice job offer from Uncle/Daddy/Father-In-Law Senior Executive? This is the ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Fuckin' Abrams has totally chewed the original up and shit it out simply for the sake of making a trilogy. I mean, "Batman vs. Superman" may have sounded slightly schlocky, but at least it was faithful schlock, with two characters who we recognized and wanted to see. I don't even know what you call this shit... -
..they shouldn't do it at all.
What's the point of using the Superman franchise if you're not going to use the elements of story that everyone can identify with.. the things (assuming they're done well) that cause fans to come out in droves and watch the film multiple times over?
I can understand the need/want to pull away from the *specific* Donner interpretation of the story so that it's not just a plain remake with new effects, but that doesn't mean you need to "re-imagine" the story from the ground up. There's a hundred different ways you could go about redesigning the plot points that lead up to Krypton's explosion and Kal-El's departure. There's plenty of different spins that can be put on the Smallville days without looking like a rehash of past particular stories.
And regarding Lex Luthor, what's even the point of calling him that if he bears no resemblance what so ever to the character? Even Donner's Lex was a far cry from the source material, but it was still in the same ball-park that viewers could say, "Yah, that's Lex Luthor."
Making a Superman franchise is a lot more than just finding a guy to put in a blue suit and slapping a red 'S' on his chest. The back-story to the character is more intertwined with the persona than virtually any other character that's been adapted to film.
If a Superman adaption for film ever has that heart and soul that strikes a cord among fans and non-fans alike, it's due to the traits that everyone can recognize. Not just because the script gives us a powerful/sad/sappy scene here and there where we're supposed to get those tingles or shivers. What's the point if no one is able to believe for an instant that the character on screen is who you're billing him to be?
To think just a week ago I was pondering what a Superman movie would be like without the famed William's score to back up the moments on screen.. amazing how such relatively small worries can be put into perspective.. -
Sep 28, 2002 10:19:42 AM CDT
I agree the "BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN" script sounded good, but...
by screenplaywriter
Why isn't there a Batman movie with such cool villians like the Scarecrow, or Clayface, or the ventriloquist guy and his gangster-like puppet? I mean I always wanted to see the Scarecrow on screen making people die by acting out their fears, going insane, and seeing him smile on off-camera, or him and Batman fighting it out, only to have the Scarecrow show Bruce's inner-demons, and causing Batman to slip off a building only to be caught by Robin in a matter of seconds. I mean wouldn't anyone want to see Scarecrow? Or Clayface? I mean Clayface was cool because he could shape-shift and do amazing things with his body of course that would take alot of CGI to pull off, but come on it's a cool character waiting and wanting to be seen on screen. Somebody think about making a "BATMAN 5" with two, or all three of these villians. Please do it! Don't work on this new "Superman" lump of shit, work on making a decent and well-deserved "Batman 5"
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Did anyone notice how similar Superman's ressurection is to Neo's resurection in the Matrix? Just wondering...
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Why not change the story? I know the old storyline and I welcome new ideas. I don't care if they spend trillions on dollars making it!! I will watch it and enjoy as long as the acting is up to par for the simple fact that it's entertainment! That is the point! Not to let it consume your life and every stinking thought! You need serious therpy. And you need to stop watching TV and stop reading material that is sci-fi realated because you need to get a grip on what is important in life. I love Star Trek and Star Wars but I don't dress up, go to conventions, call my friends up to discuss things about it for HOURS, neither do I make it my responsiablity to rid the world of evil plotting filmakers!!! Get A Freaking LIFE!!!!!
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Sorry, just kidding. It seems like the only good non-fight aspects have NOTHING TO DO WITH changing every Ga'damn idea of the Superman story (his anxieties trying to fit in, his relationship with Lois). Like Mor' said about the arbitrary "gayness" of Jimmy, all these changes do nothing but CHANGE THEM. They don't add any element (like logically making Spidey's webs a part of him instead of Peter instantly creating the greatest thing ever) or put a fun twist on things--it's like they're set up just so people will get confused when talking about Superman's origins. What sickens me is that, although I haven't read his, how could this be better than Kevin Smith's script (a good writer and a true fan)?
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...in the wilderness. I
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...guess what? I don
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DarkHorizons is reporting that Harry's publicity stunt/review has sent WB in to a tale spin. They are not going to produce this piece of shit.
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...everyone is going on about how wrong it is for Supes to fight
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...its still better than "Just Imagine...Stan Lee Creating Superman". Goddamn, that was shit.
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you all bitch, whine, bitch some more and whine some more but in the end, you'll eat up every pieces of turd the movie industry has to offer because they know they have your worthless no-life having nut-sacks in a vice.
You all say you're nto going to give support to this movie, but trust me, when it opens, your lard asses will be there.
Who really gives a shit if they're not being faithful to the ocmic book, its just a fucking comic book. We;re not talking about a pulitzer prize winning literary work of art. It's just a comic book AKA junk food for your mind. What a bunch of fucking dorqs with a Q. -
"The reason the Matrix fights were so breath-taking is because we hadn't seen anything quite like that in movies before"
not so much in the technique of the martial art, or even the style of choreography.. it was much to do with the combination of that and the slow-motion/bullet-time effects that hadn't been done to any real level before.. and since then it's been done time and time again as some sort of trend.. - the problem with this, is it will do nothing but make what should be an epic and *timeless* movie seem dated, sorted to a certain era only.. in 10 or 15 years, it won't stand the test of time...
"Superman can fly and lift tons of steel and is inherently Kryptonian. Why would he fight like a normal human?" - he was raised on earth, by human parents, near a small community.. I would assume that his exposure to martial arts training would be minimal to say the least.. martial arts, for the most part (aside from any religious/spiritual aspects), provides a means to increase speed, strength, defensive counters, etc beyond the regular scope.. it wouldn't make sense for Superman to learn any of that as he's not exactly lacking in speed/strength/etc.. the various air battles and everything that we've seen in the comics have never been able to properly make the jump to film before the film tech we have now.. it would be a shame to make a departure from those great possibilities to just have rehashed matrix-esque stuff that we'll likely be seeing anyways in other films.. -
Thanks for your comments regarding my email, hJ21 but you sort of missed the point I was making.
I'm certainly NOT saying that the fight sequences should be Matrix-like. I'm saying that with the advances in technology and a decrease in creative limitations, it should be possible to devise new, groundbreaking fight sequences which would have the same WOW-factor that the Matrix shots gave us.
Let's get away from the term 'martial arts' as it is too full of preconceived notions(certainly as every film and its mother is finding a way to shoehorn such sequences in).
I totally agree about the influence of the Kents and the Smallville community on Supes' morals and life-philosophy (that's one of the cornerstones of the whole mythos) but it would have little bearing on his physical development. As the only person who can defy gravity, I think it would be fair to say that Clark would develop his own set of moves (fighting and otherwise) that would not be affected by years of contact with Lana, Pete etc.
All I'm saying is that, yes - when it comes to ideology, Superman is effectively human, but when it comes to his physical attributes and interaction with the environment, people should stop anthropomorphising the Kryptonian. Stop thinking, "Well, if I had his power and could fly, I would...". You never will. So don't try and limit the possibilities of someone who can.
Also, regarding the comment that martial arts was devised to increase human's physical parameters, I actually LIKE the idea that Superman's strength, speed and stamina can be increased through his very own unique training regime.
Regards
Jay -
Sep 29, 2002 3:20:26 AM CDT
"We couldn't be more pleased to entrust the next chapter in
by suckmyass
One more time...with feeling!
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Let's discuss the "Heads" over at WB and their current track record of flops so far this year. The following is a partial list of boxoffice bombs released just this year by WB that were greenlit by these assheads! DEATH TO SMOOCHY, MURDER BY NUMBERS, SHOWTIME, PLUTO NASH, BLOOD WORK, INSOMNIA, YA YA SISTERHOOD, FEARDOTCOM, BALLISTIC: ECKS VS. SERVER and CITY BY THE SEA. This alone proves that all of these idiots need fired. Then DC needs to send over a few issues of Superman so that the new morons might have just a bit of a clue as to what Superman is.
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If you want to put your point across, you should try the following:
1. Enough of the immature "I'll slam your head through a colander" type bullsh*t.
2. Instead of complaining automatically, look at what they're trying to do and try and see it from their perspective.
Movies today are based on opening weekends. Very few films have constant box office revenues (I think studios also get more money at this time), so they rely on the most money they can get. If they can't snare fans, they'll go for the casual PG-13 (Or in UK, 12A) crowd.
3. Why does everyone here hate Brett Ratner? He does solidly entertaining films, and he's still relatively inexperienced.
4. If you don't like it, try to write your own film and film it. I spent most of yesterday doing one five minute scene, with three hours of us working out where the cables went. Imagine that on a large scale.
5. This seems suspiciously like a fake script.
6. The execs are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Think about it. -
I've been singing its praises in as many talk backs as possible. But I mean it, I started watching this "Superman as Buffy as Spider-Man" take out of curiosity but it is much better than I ever thought it would be. It's one of the best takes on the Superman legend, and I know the creators of the show expressed an interest early on to do a big screen feature film. Like the X-Files movie, but with real revelations ("Wow! Mulder saw a UFO...wait didn't he see a UFO in season 2 or was it 3?"). The Smallville crew is great. Give 'em a chance!
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whoever gave this superman script the green light should be publicly executed.....after being being forced to watch Pluto Nash....6 times!!!
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Sep 29, 2002 12:58:39 PM CDT
"There's no difference between a tacky Jew from Miami and a
by nurse no
It all comes down to taste. A directors taste - good or bad - always shows through in his work.
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NOTE TO BRETT RATNER: You are a rice king rat fuck. Everyone in Hollywood hates your ass. Your intolerable body odor is quickly surpassing your shitty films in terms of triggering gag reflexes in those forced to bear witness to both. Most importantly, the staff (and many of the customers) of Asanebo restaurant in Studio City CA (plug) wish you would disappear. The waitresses think you are repulsive (so you can quit sexually harassing them), the customers think you are a loud, obnoxious, graceless pig (and they are correct) and your sycophantic entourage of losers are almost as clueless as you are. Please do everyone a favor and kill yourself. But take a shower first. Even LA coroners have a sense of smell.
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Sep 29, 2002 3:51:44 PM CDT
YOU WILL BOW DOWN BEFORE ME JOR-EL...AND ONE DAY, YOUR HEIRS!
by simplybritish
How can this be allowed?
It's frickin' ridiculous!
After the Donner classic, and various other good (smallville and bad (New adventures) versions...it's time, for maybe,
the greatest superhero of all time to have another big screen treatment...and a script worthy of it.
With great films coming from the Warner Brothers camp including The Matrix sequels and Terminator 3...the next Superman movie should stay within the mythos guidelines to give the company another classic movie.
All this tosh about Lex Luthor being Kryptonian and so on should be cut from the script fast to please the millions of fans who really want the film to work...and for your bank balance too.
Listen up Warner Brothers, if this script goes ahead...you will be commiting the biggest sin since The Marque De Sade said "I've had enough partying for one night, thank you"
SB -
WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!! That review is complete and utter horseshit!!!!!!!! This is why such movies as The Punisher and the never seen Fantastic Four failed....fucked up scripts. Were in any comic of Superman did it say Lex was a alien???? If the fights are as good as you say I believe, but just reading that horseshit can fuck up the sweet rest I deserve. Tell you what WB, I am a writer, but stuck in the Navy, buy me out of my contract and I will write the Goddamn script, because it sure seems like you just pulled anyone off the street. And they allowed that shit to go through??? It seems that WB should collaborate with Marvel because they sure as hell can not handle a job this big on their own.
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WHY???!!!! I am offended. How could such a legendary story of such a powerful character be ass-raped like this!!! I almost cried reading the outline for this script. In attempting to separate the film from its predicessors, the writer has succeeded in mutilating the Superman saga beyond the point of recognition. This is unexceptable and is clearly a mistake. This is more than money at stake. This is an American Icon...which, I suppose, explains why we are subjected to Jimmy Olson's new-found, and most importantly, politically correct homosexuality. "God bless America" Jesus Christ, and when did Superman learn Kung Fu? What ever happened to originality...it seems to have died with the Matrix. If this script is made into a movie, I will not pay to see it. I may find ways around paying to satisfy my morbid curiosity, but I offer no support. I pray Warner Brothers come to their senses, if they have any left. This hurts me. This sickens me to the point of violence...a Superman movie is not just a movie, damn it! It is not just a gold mine to be raped. AHHHH, IM PISSED OFF!!!!
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Hey Warner Bros... If you're so keen on 're-inventing' things, I've got you a sure money-maker... I call it 'the wheel'. Now, I'm sure you're saying to yourself right now, 'Hey! I've heard of that!'. Yes, 'the wheel' is almost as ingrained in global consciousness as Superman. Sure, the ancient Incas didn't really know about the wheel, but neither did they know about Superman, so go figure. Anyhow, here's my idea: We'll make it square. Sound good? Well, if it does, I'll design it for you... Just give me 1/10th the money you'll be spending on this new Superman movie, and the plans will be on your desks by next Thursday.
I can promise you that, if built, my new take on the wheel will receive just as much critical acclaim as any Superman movie made off of this new script.... Which is to say, both ideas will probably fly about as well as an airplane built entirely out of rhinocerous turds.
Sure, the special effects sound like they'd most likely be spectacular in every sense of the word, what with super-powered fights and whatnot, but come on... at least be original. A large portion of this script sounds a helluva lot like Superman 2, and what doesn't sound like that movie sounds a whole heck of a lot worse. How much crack was the writer of this stinker smoking when he came up with these lame-brained ideas? Giving Lex Luthor superpowers would not only wreck a large part of the Superman mythos, it makes about as much sense as having Superman hop into a ferarri and having a high-speed car chase. Instead of having Lex do something utterly clever and diabolical, you've just turned him into another punching bag for Superman to beat up on for an extra 5 minutes or so of eye candy. Can anyone say 'cop-out'?
Stay true to the characters who are already established, maybe add in one or two original villains and plot twists, load the movie up with special effects which make people wonder 'how did they do that?' rather than 'why did they do that?', and you'll have to rent a supertanker to take home all the money you'll mke off this. Stick with the script you've got, and the only people who're going to see this movie are going to be that 0.001% of people in the world who know absolutely nothing about Superman and those people who slow down to see car wrecks out of a sense of morbid curiosity.
Seriously, Warner Brothers... If you want to re-invent a superhero, do it to one who pretty much nobody gives a flying shit about... Maybe the Green Hornet. (Jackie Chan or Jet Li as Kato would make for a good start... just don't let John Wu direct.) Just don't go around messing with characters half the world knows and cares about. Of course, I could be wrong... But so could everyone else who's posted to this site. -
Sep 30, 2002 12:29:04 PM CDT
Agent Luthor the Kryptonian & the League of Franchise-Milking Ha
by loki222
OH MY DEAR GOD, SAY IT AIN'T SO!
There is no amount of CGI or cool super-fights that will right the wrong that is these idiots re-hash/destruction of the mythos that is Superman! The further I read, the more I just want to unload a can of super-whoop-ass on these hacks.
Agent Luthor? ...FROM KRYPTON?! Jor-El handpicking the Kents?! A flying Baby-Supes and his potent Krypton-poo-diapers?! Jimmy Olsen is GAY?! KRYPTON IS NOT DESTROYED??!!
WHAT'S NEXT?! Why not just sign Marlon Brando to reprise his Jor-El role, commit hari-kiri and talk his son back from the dead. While you're at it, have the Power-Puff Girls show up as hand-picked back-up for supes (if Luthor can be from Krypton, why not them too).
I can not think of anything that would make this script much worse. Thankfully, the "powers that be" at Warner Bros. didn't choose to target Supes for their token-gay character. Although...put Bruce Campbell in the role of Supes, make him flaming-gay and have a new love triangle between Supes, Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane. I can see it now...Lois is so cute, but Jimmy's skin is just oh-so-soft!
SHOOT ME NOW!!! -
I will not watch this, will not buy this on DVD, will NEVER recommend this EVER to anyone on the face of planet Earth. In fact I will never even acknowledge its damn existence.
WB if you are listening you will not get a single solitary penny off of me for this pile of dog sh!t!!!
It a given that ANY superman movie made is going to make an @$$ load of cash. So what is the point of dicking with canon. Someone at WB needs to be killed. I mean taken out back and slaughtered like the swine they are. >:(
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When I was ten (1964), the SUPERBOY comics had Lex as a fellow student at Smallville High. He was portrayed as brilliant but goodnatured - liked by all.Clark was a casual friend. Superboy was known to the townspeople...
Lex's big thing was chemistry; always working on some experiment to better mankind. One of them goes wrong, unknown to Lex, but detected by Clark, who changes to Superboy to save the day. But in doing so, Lex loses his hair... permanently.
He blames Superboy (not Clark), and he vows revenge. This becomes the driving force that feeds his hatred of Superboy/man, and leads him to become rich & powerful. His chemistry background helps bring about the Lex Labs, as a means of defeating Supe thru science. The resulting technology... the weapons, the dna studies, the kryptonite research... all stem from that hatred, and keep his empire going. The reason why he hates fades as the hatred grows. It's what makes him the perfect counterpart;... the more he fails, the more determined he becomes,... which is why we respect him. Just like Superman, he never gives up.
So my question is ...
Whatever happened to that storyline, and why would any screenwriter worth his salt reduce Lex to a mere weasel , either as a CIA op or as the whining 2nd son of Krypton? -
Just when I thought my day couldnt get worse...
I read Moriarty's review of what is the single shittiest "Superman" script in history and i have to say, WHAT THE FUCK IS THEIR PROBLEM?!!
Making Luthor, the greatest criminal flame of our age, a Kryptonian; Superman dying in the 1st of a "trilogy" (I dont think theyll make it that far, should they use this poor excuse of an Abrams script); a gay Jimmy Olsen; "Krypton" (henceforth known as Naboo) still being there; this makes Alias look like Tolstoy...
It makes "Batman and Robin" look like "Gone with the Wind", its that bad folks.
What's worse, I read this afeter coming off news (or rumors) that Bill Gates (Satan in disguise) has paid Konami enough money so that Metal Gear Solid 3 will be an Xbox exclusive for x-amount of time. Then i read this piece of worthless SHITE disguised as a "re-imagining" of Superman and I nearly collapsed on the floor!!! This pair of bad news nearly killed me... Just when I was starting to think about seeing "Red Dragon"... Asshole... -
I'll make this brief. I currently have the iconic Big 'S' tattooed on my calf. If something like this ever makes it to the big screen, I will personally take a carpenter's knife, remove it and send the remains to the WB!
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It's been a long time, general, but I'm back, and what a topic to come back with. Now, I'm not gonna bullshit you and pretend that I'm this huge Superman fan: the extent of my knowledge of the Man of Steel comes from Richard Donner's better-than-ever 1978 movie and the WB animated series, but this is, in short, a terrible idea. I hope to God that it doesn't get made. It could (and will) make "Batman and Robin" look like Shakespeare. Also, I'm surprised that no one has yet posted the following: "Once we find those Warners fucks that are making that movie, we're gonna make them eat our shit, then shit out our shit, then eat the shit which is made up of shit we made them eat, then Jon Peters is fuckin' next!" I love that movie.
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All right, first of all, with a name like M
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What I said before was only a sample of what I have in my haed. Here's ther rest in response to the people that actually think this script is good and badmaouthecd the rest of us...:
THIS SCRIPT IS SOME FUCKED UP REPUGNANT SHIT! IF YOU'RE READY TO BLOW IF YOU READ THIS, REMEMBER THIS...
WE ARE MUSHROOM-CLOUD LAYING MOTHERFUCKERS, MOTHERFUCKERS. EVERYTIME OUR EYES READ SHIT, OUR FINGERS TOUCH KEYBOARD. AND IF THAT HAPPENS, WE ARE A MASSIVE HURRICANE. WE'RE THE GUNS OF THE NAVARONE... IN FACT, WHAT THE FUCK AM I DOING DIGNIFYING YOUR OBVOISLY SHORTSIGHTED SHITTY-ASS COMMNETS? THTA'S IT... WE'LL WAIT FOR THE HULK MOVIE (which should be a hell of a lot better that whatever the fuck you call this) AND YOU PICK UP BRETT RATNER'S FUCKING SKULL AFTER WE BEAT IT PROFUSELY INTO OUR BREAD AND FEED IT TO OUR DOGS AS WE WATCH THEM COUGH UP HIS LAST REMAINS!!! -
He's all I have to say: What the Fuck happened?? Have I been under a rock my whole life?? This isn't Superman!! This is shit!! Call the The Adventures of Shitman!!
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great,
so once again, we have a production company try desperatly to capitolize on a good idea. The marvel movies have been fantastic. Clear, consise, not shitty at all. I am now reminded of hearing good ole' Kevin Smith speak in Kentucky last Spring. He told us the story of his run at a SUPERMAN script.He told of the producers suggestions that he have "guards at the fortress of solitude" and that he fight a "giant fucking spider" (a spider which that producer recieved in a later film, wild wild west!) and of course, that superman could not wear the suit. Between that, the whole "nick cage debacle" and now this, i am fairly certain that warner bros simply could not give a good god damn about what could possibly be a blockbuster franchise. Instead they put out smallville and birds of prey. who the fuck are they fooling? im sorry, but im either going to read comics, or watch felecity, but i refuse to do both at the same time. Marvel didnt sell out with their flicks, why should DC? Judging by the looks of it, DC may end up loosing the war.
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Oct 02, 2002 3:02:53 AM CDT
heres an idea for WB, FIRE ALL OF YOUR STUDIO EXECUTIVES!!!!
by moviegeek81
Who the fuck is Jon Peters and JJ Abrams to try and reinvent the Superman story? They have no right to fuck with that story. Thats like setting fire to your new Jaguar Sports Car on purpose. Instead of starting over with Superman, how about making a continuation. Yes true that the past Superman Movies 3 and 4 were ridiculously bad, but doesn't mean you have to start over again. As for that script, it has some good moments, but needs a serious make over. The story is nothing but a bunch of cliche'd garbo taken from other movies and meshed together as one movie. I personally don't want WB to make another Superman movie, because Christopher Reeve is and will forever be Superman. No one can replace him. The Donner film is a comic-book masterpiece. I cried when I first heard about Reeve's accident. When they made that commercial of Reeve's actually walking, I couldn't stand it. So to honor Christopher Reeve's unforgettable performance, they should just leave it alone. Hell do what Lucas and Speilberg have done with their past work. Make improved effects in the original Superman,and add the deleted scenes. Re-release it with all kinds of remastered shit on it. So fuck the script idea, and just re-release the original movie.
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ON CONAN O'BRIAN LAST NIGHT, ANTHONY HOPKINS said he'd been cast and hired to play Jor-El in the next Superman film. Since A.H. is near 60?, this would support the fact that Krypton wasn't destroyed in this remake, and that Jor-El has lived to be an older father. Let's
hope they rewrite this part, and revert to the standard history. If they want to have Superman temporarly killed, just make "The Death Of Superman", without the Justice Legue, et all, to keep the cost down. -
ON CONAN O'BRIAN LAST NIGHT, ANTHONY HOPKINS said he'd been cast and hired to play Jor-El in the next Superman film. Since A.H. is near 60?, this would support the fact that Krypton wasn't destroyed in this remake, and that Jor-El has lived to be an older father. Let's
hope they rewrite this part, and revert to the standard history. If they want to have Superman temporarly killed, just make "The Death Of Superman", without the Justice Legue, et all, to keep the cost down. -
I don't know if any one important will read this but after reading the article about the plot leak I was dissapointed. What are you people thinking. I was a comic book collectore when i was younger and always hoped they would make them into movies. I was majorly dissapointed when I saw the "Punisher" made as a movie. That did not stick to the original story at all. What happend it? It didnt even make it too the thearter and I am sure thousands of fans were dissappointed. Now present date Marvel finnaly got there act together with x-men and spiderman. I mean spider man basicly stuck right too the plot line. And thats why it worked and thats why I saw it again. And thats why I will be there to see the sequal. My question is the show smallvile. I mean its setting up a great story line. I think the first part of the season had a rocky start but got better towards the end like most new shows. I think it is great with what they are doing for the lex character. But do you people realise your going to get a major audience because of the show. And if you deviate too much from it you will loose all those people who watch it. I understand that hollywood is a buisness and thats why the call it show buisness. You guys want to get your investment back, preferably with something extra, I understand that who wouldnt. But listen to the fans because we know what we want. I would try to find some clever way to incorperate the show. I think that would boost ratings for the show and ticket sales at the thearter. What better ad campaign then one that has a hour spot each week. As far as directors I would stay away from m. night guy. Unbreakable was unbareable. I mean how many long cuts could there be. A comic movie with a very slow pace? Didn't work for me. I think ratner is ok but I dont think he is right for a super hero movie. I think McG would have been perfect. He delievers a great style. His new show Fastlane was very cool and total eye candy. Thats the kind of energy you need. But don't get caught up in just the glamour like batman and robin. That was like a comic book fashion show. Stick to the orginal story. I always wondered why you people don't use marvel writers who have been writing the stuff for years. I mean who better. Well thats enough out of me. Again this is just my opinion, but remember word of mouth is a powerful thing and me and all my friends buy movie tickets.
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Good evening. I am aware that this is, essentially, reopening an old wound by the time I finally get around to posting this.
But I want to take a stand that a few posters have brushed over and most have completely ignored.
First of all, yes, this script is bad. The complete lack of respect for the canon, the lame, groan-worthy twists. You've all complained to your heart's content.
But fear not, gentle readers. Because I can tell you without a doubt that the movie you're all terrified of will not be made.
I'm a film student. Let me point out a few things about the way the industry and the process of filmmaking works.
1) SCRIPT DRAFTING.
From what I understand, what has been reviewed here is a FIRST DRAFT, or at least an early draft.
No film. Is ever made. From the first draft.
ESPECIALLY NOT IN HOLLYWOOD!
And especially-especially not one for such an important property as Superman.
Let me tell you about the first draft I read for the original Batman film.
It opens with, and continues with, a very copious backstory to Bruce Wayne. Showing him with his parents, showing how they were killed, showing how he trained and became a super dooper guy who can race Mario Andretti (yes, there was a cameo) be an olympic-level athlete on every level, and still be a millionaire hot shot businessman and ladies' man.
By the way, the Joker had Wayne's parents killed by Joe Chill, whom the Joker promptly iced (get it?) in thanks.
It then goes through the whole "Maaan, I heard there's like a giant bat drinking blood in Gotham..." thing that we see in the final movie. Then it gets weird. Rupert Thorne is the bad guy. Joker and Penguin are strong presences, but despite Joker being responsible for most of the dastardly acts in the film both he and Cobblepot take back seat to Rupert Thorne. Vicki Vale is not the love interest, it's Silver St Cloud, and Thorne shoots her in the end and she dies in Batman's arms. Robin is in it. Joker kills his parents in a scene similar to the one in Batman Forever. He vows revenge, becomes Bruce's sidekick and the dynamic duo track down the villains in a museum filled with giant clockwork pieces, a giant typewriter, and a giant pencil sharpener. Penguin and Joker are subdued and dragged to jail, but completely against character, Batman puntkicks the true villain, Thorne, into said pencil sharpener, mincing him. For killing his girlfriend.
This draft was interesting but quite bizarre and disjointed. It went from yawning childhood exposition, to the dark, gothic Batman we love, but as soon as Robin was introduced its tone became almost frivolous, right to a ridiculous final fight scene right out of the 60's show...but with more blood.
It is also nothing at all like the film that was finally made.
The point of rambling about this is, that if giant pencil sharpeners didn't make it into the final cut of Batman, I doubt Matrix stunts, Jor'el sepukku and alien Agent Smith Mulder Lex Luthor will.
2...or was that B?) KEEPING THE LID ON IT.
If there is one thing that studios hate, it's the beans being spilled too early. With Batman, in the 80's, sites like this certainly did not exist, for screaming fans to tear apart every nuance of a screenplay before a single camera is pointed at a single actor. This means that YOU have a lot more say in the way these movies will be made, now, than ever before. More so than you think.
And now that the cat is out of the bag on this draft, with every plot twist and the big dramatic ending not only spoiled but spreading like wildfire through an incensed fan community (I was informed of it by a classmate at my university) ...the studio won't go with it. It will be redrafted, or in worst case scenario, canned completely.
Even if this was a later draft being considered for immediate shooting, they'd redraft if there was a leak this severe.
After all, it costs a lot less to bring in a new screenwriter or force the old one to rewrite, than it does to make a movie where everyone already knows and hates what is going to happen. Why do you think Lucas was so furious about the leak of the early draft Episode II screenplay?
Folks, these people are professionals. They spend a lot of money on films like these. A film as huge as Superman could make or break a reasonable size studio - New Line for example put its neck in the guillotine for LOTR and are breathing much easier now that the films are a screaming success. I think Warner Bros could survive a flop as big as is potentially, but it would be hurting. A lot.
They're not going to go into a project this huge unprepared, and they're going to throw around a lot of scripts before they settle on one. And when they get that one, they'll draft and redraft and whittle at it until it's ready to shoot. And believe me, with a franchise as huge as Superman, and with the popularity of Smallville at the moment, NO big studio is going to be taking unnecessary risks. It's a little sad. After this, they'll probably end up making a Superman movie that takes so few risks that you will all be screaming on these post boards about how much of a boring redux of things you've already seen it is. Will you be happy, then?
What about the Schumacher Batman films, you ask? What about them? They were SEQUELS. They were treading on familiar ground, following in the steps of the Burton films. Sequels in these genres are usually treated to be bigger and flashier than the original, simply because You've Already Seen The First One, and very often change hands, and often, but not always, to a less capable director, because the original director has moved on to other projects or believes the franchise has been exhausted. Sequels, especially ones that are not planned from the beginning (unlike LOTR or the Potter movies) are quite often cash cows, only made to be milked until the franchise has completely run out of juice. The hated Schumacher Batman films were simply that.
A new Superman would NOT, however, be a sequel to or a remake of the Donner film. It's too wide a time-gap. It would be starting from scratch, stepping out to refresh the franchise - much like Spider-man, an energetic and memorably fun movie I saw no less than four times.
And what does this mean? This means the studios won't take this lightly. The amount of umming-and-aahing over current DC properties (Batman: Year One or Dark Knight Returns films, Batman vs Superman films, etc) and the amount of creative minds leaping onto and off of the bandwagon alone is proof of that. They certainly won't favour a script for long if A) there's a leak like this B) there's a REACTION like this from the public. Both? They won't risk it. Never happen.
But they don't care about us, you say! Sure they do. You're where their money's coming from. If you don't go to their movie, they don't get your money's worth.
Think about it.
Kobura, out. -
I think I will have to agree, both with what moriarty said and with the resounding disgust for the script that everyone else has had. Superman is a legend. He came about in a set way, and his storyline has always been the same. Small changes are ok, but to recreate superman is not. It can be compared to evolution, large abrupt changes do not occur. Small, adaptations always work much better.
Let me say something quickly about the show Smallville. It is a good show. It goes into details about superman that have not been really charted - namely his adolescent life. This can be played with all you want, as long as the end result is superman and what he is known as presently. To make Lex Luthor an alien, does not follow smallville or any comics that were ever written. To do such a thing to him completely changes the character. To make him alien, makes the evilness in Lex less evil. For a human to have the characteristics of Lex creates a much more viable character.
Destroying Krypton destroys the whole purpose of Kal-El. Sending him away to fulfill some "prophecy". That is complete bullshit. It was okay in the original superman movies to have prisoners floating around, but the point was still held that Krypton was dead. And a suit from Krypton, more bullshit. Abrams makes it seem more like the symbiotic suit that venom has.
For now that is all I have to say. What I have said here has probably already been said by hundreds of other posters. But the more people that emphasize their dislikes, the better the chance of the script being rewritten.
If you want a good script, read the comic books. Or maybe, you could get Kevin Smith to write it again. -
Oct 05, 2002 2:54:28 PM CDT
Anyone who wants to see this movie, should reevaulate their sana
by roguek
Anyone who wants to see this movie, can't be called a comic fan and should just go to see the Matrix 2 if you want a fun high-flying fight scene!
DC was a total fool to sell the movie rights for Superman! If you're even going to attempt to put the Big Guy on the big screan you should at least make it same with the story line. If you're not going to go along with the story line you might as well just make some flick about Mighty Mouse that can kick some ass. Or like I said just go see the Matrix 2, which is what this movie is looking like it is trying to mimmic. Fight scenes and all sound great but any movie can have good fights, the story line is what has to grab the viewer.
This will deffently give people something to talk about after they see it. Too bad it will be negitive talk, even from people who aren't really Superman fans.
RogueK -
I would like to thank Moriarty and everyone who has commented about Superman 5. Reading about it has got me laughing harder than ever in my life (or maybe I'm just getting old (27)). Seriously, literally rolling on the ground fighting for breath, coughing with pain from laughter. I had just better stop reading and go to sleep or I may be the first death this script has claimed.
Another thing, everyone read the post by Juggernaut125. We're starting to get some serious ideas here. Personally, I would like to see something about the history of Krypton (as long as it does not not explode, and as long as it is not Naboo). -
I just had a revelation after reading Wesley Snopes's post. This could work if it was all meant to be the biggest parody movie in years. Lex Luthor must definitely talk jive and it would help if he looks like James Brown. I can just see it now. Maybe it is meant to be that and Moriarty just read it wrong.? Yes, they should actually make Krypton Naboo from episode one (same exact set and everything)! Then they also need to throw in some really obvious paridoxes and practically announce them. Oh, man, now that I think about it like that, it could be great! I'm not being sarcastic!
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ok so superman turns into michael jordan and will not ware his suit after his father dies and then becomes neo when he dies and jor el (aka) trinity talks him into coming back to life. this is a cruel joke it has got to be. i wish great herm to the people who make this movie if in fact they do make this pile of shit. i am still in shock that lex is a kriptonian what the fuck is that...
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Oct 18, 2002 9:57:05 PM CDT
There are only a few things wrong but they are MAJOR, and they w
by tokin joker 420
CASTING SUPERMAN: Please Please Please Please Don't cast anyone that shouldnt be superman. Do I have to say PLEASE again? Do Millions of superman fans have to write you and Beg? Keanu Reeves? NOOO. Brendan fraiser? NOO. Any other actor who is known for other famous shit? NO. I swear to god guys, i love keanu, really, i cant wait to see the next two matrix flicks, but him as superman wont be superman...it will be Keanu reeves in a superman outfit, thats all. I dont care how awesome the costume is, hes just NOT superman.And that goes for Fraiser, affleck, Damon..ect... Ya know how when you think of Chris Reeve you think of Superman? You see him in another movie, and you go "thats superman!" or you see him at a paralysis organization, and you go "thats superman!"...ITS CAUSE HE IS SUPERMAN. Please guys, you have to realize that you have to get an unknown...or a somewhat unknown to play superman. Somebody new to pick up where the astoundingly awesome Christopher Reeve left off. Someone you see and think "damn, he looks like superman".
AS FOR THE SCRIPT:
The fighting sequences...GOOOOD The whole "karate fighting in the sky" thing? I think if you can pull it off and make it look good, then go for it. The whole Jummy Olsen being gay thing? Come on now, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything, is there a quota on how many queers you need in this movie or something? DONT DO IT, IT WILL JUST PISS THE FANS OFF. Whoa, i almost forgot..yeah, JJ...and anyone else that has anything to do with the making of this movie...KRYPTON MUST EXPLODE. I dont care how you do it. In the comics, the planet is very unstable and explodes...for some reason...I think it would be cool if their red sun was reaching the end of it's life ( ya know, how stars go super nova and blow up after a few billion years?) and was expanding causing major bad shit to occur on krypton so jor-el had to send Kal away..but thats my idea guys..I dont care how you do it, krypton has to explode. We have to see on the big screen what we fans have seen in comics for years...Superman's Matrix Chamber rocketing away as krypton explodes. I dont give a fuck how you do it guys, but krypton really has to explode. A key issue superman has is being the sole survivor of his home planet. Now listen guys, i really like this whole Kryptonian on Kryptonian thing, but when the dust settles at the end of the movie, and we know who is gonna be standing (superman will be..for idiots who are like " well who's gonna be standing?")..Superman must be the last of his kind. Just dont be an ass and keep krypton around any longer than it has to be. Um, next...I LLLOOVVEEE the idea of superman in the andes listening to the world's problems. Its in the comics how supes goes to the mountains, or his fortess of solitude when he needs to calm his nerves and shit. Keep that in the script. Hmm...what else..Lex Luthor CANNOT..whoa, i repeat..CANNOT be Kryptonian. Not in anyway whatsoever can LEX LUTHOR be Kryptonian. Do you hear that, JJ? NO! I dont give a fuck if if hes injected with Kryptonian DNA or cross-bred with a kryptonian..theres no acceptable story about ow kex iskryptonian. Just dont do it man. Other than that, i really dont see anything else wrong in the script that AICN has posted..i think, anyway. Now Guys, i am a major superman fan. I know what im talking about. Want me to help out with the script? Ill it for free. ill sign a motherfucking contract that says i agree to $0.00 with no credit for the help. You can even deny i exist. I just really really really want to see a new, awesome, outstanding SUPERMAN movie, okay? I dont want to walk out of the theatre regretting i paid the 8 bucks to see superman. And Guys, Listen to me...I dont care how bad the preview looks, i dont give a fuck if u tell me to blow my opinions outa my ass... Im gonna see this superman movie, just like the next guy, even if its guaranteed to suck ass. But ya know what? If it does suck ass i wont see the next one and ill think youre a big asshole moron for attempting to do something youre just not capable of...for ruining something so much bigger than you. Do everyone, especially yourself, and do SUPERMAN justice and prove to everyone that you are the man for this job, okay? Dont disappoint anyone cause youre only gonna b fuckin yourself in the end if you do. -
I am finding it very hard to believe this script is real. It's one thing to make a few stylistic changes to enhance a script, but from that the entire story of Superman is different. There are a few stylistic changes in Smallville, but those are to enhance the story. It veers just enough so you notice the changes, but not enough for you to be praying it's all a bad dream, such as this script. The only part of this script that is true is the fact he's from Krypton and the character names. Other then that, you could rename it "Dumb Comic Book Hero" and no one would know. This isn't the story of Superman. I'd be willing to bet that Superman's story is the most well known of any superhero's. As well known as Batman is, I think even the most pedestrian of people could tell you details about Superman's origins. However, what I just read is not about Superman's origins. It's about "Dumb Comic Book Hero". This story makes no sense. Lex is not from Krypton, he's from Metropolis and he certainly doesn't work for the CIA... he works for Lexcorp. That doesn't enhance the story, it alters it completely. If Smallville helped recapture the public's facination with Superman, this "movie" will kill it completely. Forget about any other sequels if this is the path it's going to take either, because if Superman IV:The Quest For Peace didn't kill the franchise of Superman movies, (which it really should have by the way, can you say God Awful Story?), this will. But atleast that story was true to the characters, not this.... honking steaming load of crap.
I am begging people DO NOT MAKE THIS MOVIE. I want to see a true Superman movie come out, not this pseudo Superman script.
I am having a hard time believing it to be real, but if it is... this will be the biggest bomb since Hiroshima -
Oct 22, 2002 6:26:50 AM CDT
Great Ceasar's Ghost! Jon Peters IS LEX LUTHOR!!!! C'mon, he's a
by zombie vig
At a side note, this SUPERMAN: RETARDED movie might rock (yes. i'm being sarcastic_
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WHAT KIND OF RETARDED MONKEY WROTE THIS SHIT? Seriously, what sick deranged mind could possibly conceive of this garbage...AND THINK PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY PAY TO SEE IT!?!? I want to stab my eyes out with a rusty nail so they will never see this crap or anything else these morons make...ever...
I will now go to imdb.com, look up the people who wrote this and make it my holy mission in life to denounce them and everything they do. I will boycott anything they are involved in and will not rest until they are fired, forced to live on the streets, get addicted to smack, and die cold and alone in some nameless gutter. -
this had to be the worst possible idea for a new superman movie.
I believe that if this did go into full production i would have to sit in a corner all by myself piss my pants and die. Thank you WB for another great one in the works!!! -
Dec 11, 2002 9:15:57 AM CST
This would make a really good movie, But i dont see how you can
by fostina1
Maybe make up another superhero. but its definatley not a superman movie.
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Holy Shitty Scripts Batman, have you heard what they are doing to our boy in blue! What kind of sick joke is this. Like so many guys my age, Superman was my first hero, my first interest in comics, my first etc... I would really love to see that my kids have the same opportunity, but if this is the future of Superman, my kids aren't getting anywhere near that box office!!! Come on, the boys at DC Comics must all be snorting ink if they actually plan to let this happen. PLEASE SAVE US SUPERMAN, and save yourself while you're at it.
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wow, i look forward to this plot playing out on the big screen like i look forward to getting an intestinal virus and shitting burning stomach acids and whiping my asshole raw from the multiple visits for a week! that said id like to add that i hate superman. i HATE him. i hate the original storys, i hate the icon he is, i hate the old movies, i hate all the cartoons and tv shows, i hate the new comics, i hate that damn blue and white costume, i hate the blue and red costume, i hate every thing about him accept for the comic in which we see his demise (and only for that reason because i found that plot and the charecters even in a supposedly emotionally stirring story line to be as interesting and stirring as an erroding urinal cake). however i know what superman stands for and what it should be. just because i hate it dosent mean that if givin the chance or opertunity i would change it! thats what hitler did, so in essence warner bros. as well as any and every one else who have a hand in this script (here on reffered to as "shit") are clearly intent on geneocide and should be dealt with in similar fashion as the nazis were. i hate superman, and i think i made that clear, but i hate this shit so much more! i didnt think it would be possable for me to hate superman more than i already did... but after seeing all the "revamps" and "updates" that hes endured in recent years, well ill be damned if i dont grow more spiteful nearly every day. let me draw out a guide line for a movie that id even go see with supes... first off JIMMY IS NOT GAY AND LEX LUTHER IS NEITHER IN THE CIA, A KRYPTONIAN, NOR HAS HE ANY HAIR!! next...fukk krypton! after reading this shit i realised why the original creators blew the fukker up to begin with. next give us one of the less crappy villians... doomsday, solomon grundy, even brainiac... there are villians that could be good a supes flick. in fact its the villians that should be updated and made to be some what cool or fresh NOT superman! i think im going to go pitch a trillogy to warner bros. i call it "swift kick in the nits I, II, and III"
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Ok here goes. The script that was talked about here Is the most retarded idea I have ever heard. Some of the stuff I could see happening but Luthor being a superpowered kryptonian?!?!?! I mean Luthor might as well have said "Sups, I'm your Brother, Sups." That shit worked well for Lucas' characters in Starwars But in a comic based movie, where everybody in the world no matter who they r already Know the Characters and know where they come from, a reinvention of this sort shouldn't take place. The Superman story is something that shouldn't be reinvented. Update maybe, but this script looks more Like an elseworlds tale than regular superman continuity
I myself am a big fan of the WB show smallville and I am also a big fan of the comic. I think that a movie based on the adult superman should hold off until the characters in smallville go off to college. By that time we will have seen the young superman come into being a real hero. Then we can skip a couple years ahead and see(Tom Welling) superman coming to work at the planet in metropolis and butting heads with Luthor. I think that with the way the show is going the relationship that clark and Luthor have now will come to an end and when we pick back up with them in Metropolis there is a sense of rivalry between clark and Luthor that escalates as time Passes.
This script that is being talked about here is not even in the neighborhood of smallville. This will disapoint a lot of fans of superman. -
If you have any respect for the Superman character or the fans, please do not make this movie. At the very least stick to the original story line and make a movie based on that.
Throw this script out and start fresh, but make DAMN sure you get the right person to fill Christopher Reeves shoes. Anything less will diminish both the character and the actor, they both deserve the very best.
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Okay, so this script is at best, a nice little flare of creativity, and at worst, a hulking ball of shit. Considering it is very ballsy, though, I think this ball of shit can be turned into gold with the right changes. Picture this... Krypton still explodes, but it explodes because it is in the midst of a civil war with a faction of rebels from its sister planet, Argos. The rebels set in motion events that cause Krypton's destruction, but Jor-el knows of this and connects these events to the "prophecy" and to this end sends Kal-el off to Earth. Okay, everything proceeds as Abrams has laid it out at this point with the exception that, when the rebel leader, poised to take over Argos now that the Senate is no more, sends his men to find Kal-el based on tracking the flight trajectory of the escaping pod, the man who lands on Earth dies in his pod upon impact. Lexcorp finds this pod twenty years later, not the CIA, and it sparks Lex Luthor's interest in everything Kryptonian. Everything continues as written by Abrams once more, with the exception that the Kal-el hunters that come to Earth are the only ones trained in the martial arts, being soldiers themselves, and Superman fights in the western style. The trick here is that Clark, who has lived on Earth all his life, has amassed more power and is more versed in the use and control of his abilities than these "super ninjas" are. I think a more Western style fighter versus a bunch of martial artists, super-style, would be very interesting to see. Superman dies... heh, I'm not sure about the method, though. I don't much like the whole Kryptonite idea unless Lex Luthor is involved somehow. Maybe he remains in cohoots with the Argosian soldiers and sets a trap, or maybe the Argosians could have prepared for this eventuality by bringing an organic war machine, a super monster of sorts (read: Doomsday) which Superman has to stop, getting himself killed in the process. Of course, the self-sacrifice thing is good, too...
Anyway, the meeting in heaven takes place as it does in the comic, if Jonathan Kent is still slated to die earlier in the movie, we get to see Clark's biological and adopted father both meeting him in the great beyond. He learns the truth of his destiny and his body, resting (and regenerating, as per the comic) in the big stone superman shrine in Metropolis, is once again inhabited by his spirit, and he breaks his way into the sunlight. More fighting ensues, Superman gains the upper hand, but of course no one wants to see him kill in the movie. So Lex, deciding that these soldiers of Argos are just too dangerous to deal with, takes them out of the picture himself. Or maybe, since that would be quite difficult to accomplish, considering the Argosian immunity to Kryptonite, Superman has to take them back to Argos, and Lex, trying to cover up his own involvement in this, provides the means for the trip. In any case, the trip from Argos to Earth and vice-versa should take a couple of years, giving Superman ample time to become an American icon in the first place, and giving Lex enough time to become president before Supes gets back. Now THERE's a trilogy for ya! -
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.(Wait, gotta catch my breath)HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAha'hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah (Still can't catch my breath) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That was the funniest script I have ever read in my life. I hope they put it out just to give me the green light to write a script that I have in the back of my head. The name of it would be don't go see this movie.. It's all ready to go, but I have to see this script come to the big screen first. My God!!! They would actually screw Superman like that huh. Wheh. Good luck...
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oh my god what kind of horse shit is this . was this guy high when he wrote this trash or what . i mean this is the most worthless pile of shit i have ever heard of , it isnt even close to the character, seriously its so off base it makes me wonder where the hell do they come up with this crap. its ridiculous, its so ludacris that nobody that has ever read a superman comic would even wanna watch the trailer. just the idea of this makes me wanna hurl , its so over the top stupid that it borders on blasphemy. i cant even begin to comprehend why someone would want to take something and twist the hell out of it . maybe if you had never heard of superman , never seen the previous movies, or never read a superman comic, this might be interesting, but how many people have never heard of superman, never seen the movies , or read the comics. superman is the most recognisable icon in the world the s- shield is known everywhere. marvel has been shelling out movies by the ton this past couple years and they are all good movies they are changed a little but thats to be expected but at least they stay close to the characters being portrayed but this, this is just insane , if the movie is based off of that script it will lose its target audience, it will bomb and become a lost movie just like the first captian america movie that had that jackass in a motorcycle helmet playing captain america
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This script is very very bad; it will anger die-hard fans, and confuse and turn off just about everybody else, new-found fans of smallville especially. I can not believe after the x-men/spiderman/daredevil movies that anyone in their right mind would mess with the basic principles of the character, these successful movies remain faithful to their source material, those that don't fail, [Batman and Robin - case in piont].
Look smallville works because it takes the iconic ideas and runs with them, this script abandons these, ignoring most recognisable elements of the myth - the very story which nearly everybody knows - get real, Superman is the last son of Krypton - Krypton is no more; it explodes, Luthor is a brilliant but very human nemesis, Superman chooses to sacrifice his own happiness for the greater good, not to flirt with skirt, even if its Lois.
To be positive, Luthor being a CIA operative is no big deal, scientist to billionaire businessman to government suit, - along as the guy is brilliant but evil meglomaniac human corrupted by power its OK by me.
Revisiting the Superman origin can be done provided the basic principles are adhered to; ie Superman is powerful because he is - not because of the suit.
The origin and nature of these powers has changed over time. Yet it is the super, in superman that defines the character.
Remember Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster created a super man, a man that could leap tall buildings blah to blah, but not fly, that came later, powers evolve too. Yet the character is a man, must I remind you? Its in the name after all, and oh yes to explain this mans suoer powers, they had the idea to have him be an alien from another world.
Understanding this isn't hard, in the early c20th many Americans were aliens, immigrants from the old world to the new, and as Europe descended into near self destruction in another world war, how apt old Krypton with its advanced civilisation should get blown up.
Of course back then in the thirties and forties of last century, aliens were little different to you and me, a trip to the nearest movie theatre confirmed this, as very human aliens were seen alongside the likes of Flash Gordon, and as times moved, on emerging from flying saucers in Washington, or hamming it up on the original Star Trek.
Few thought it odd in those simpler days that Superman was actually Superalien, and what a fortunate co-incidence it was that he should have the right number of legs, and arms, etc.
Then came the Star Wars era; you could not fool the audience any more, aliens were alien, they had tendrils, and multiple eyes, aliens wanted to phone home, or perform experiments on us, the truth was out there, and it was that ET was not human, and did not look human.
This leaves Superman with a problem, he is super, but he is also clearly a man, a two eyes in the one head, bipedal, tall and dark and handsome kinda guy.
This script attempts re-imaginging yet does not address this most funadamental problem; the credibility of the character, in fact it only compounds it by adding extra aliens that appear human apart from the super powers.
The trouble is there is no way to add a few extra pounds of latex to augment Supermans features, even the trade mark glasses won't hide neo-Klingon brow ridges. Nope Superman may be an alien from Krypton, but you can't escape the fact that he's very human.
Even Startrek grudlingly confronted this issue with a convoluted plot line where some ancient bipedal race seeded the galaxy with their DNA thereby creating the look human aliens of this fictional universe.
So where is the answer to this conundrum, its clear to me - its in the name, yes he's super, but he is a man.
As Sting put it 'an alien... an illegal alien, an englishman in New York. You don't have to be Jabba the Hut to be an alien, nationality, 'planetality' is about place of birth, just as America is about liberty,...
Superman if human, is also the Man of Tomorrow, which implies that Superman is our future; a possible point in evolutionary history.
The comics have recently told of Kryptonian genetic tinkering, a process which brought about Doomsday to Metropolis. I guess I am moving on from here, by saying first that Superman is what we want to become, at least the child inside of us yearns for, flight, strength, invulnerability.
What if in our distant future, a group of human beings, originally from earth, find themselves cast back into the distant past, perhaps earths first colony ship attempts to travel faster than light, and instead travels through both space and time. These colonists trapped in the distant past settle on a planet circling a red sun, [or maybe after a millennia or so even busy themselves creating a dyson sphere that much much later becomes unstable] eventually history leads up to if desired a civil war, causing the essential planetary castrophe.
Another posting has already suggested other surviving Kyrptonians, Yes and no, no Kryptonians, only Kal-el survives Krypton, but other worlds colonised by Kryptonians over millenia would cease to be Kyrptonian, but would rightly be alien to both earth-origin world, and krypton, having evolved/engineered unique abillities and appearances.
If this were so the circle would be squared, Superman, would be both alien i.e. super, and human i.e. man, with none of the imponderables, like sex death and marriage, all these would be possible for the man of tomorrow.
Remember despite the x-files and UFO mythos the facts are this, a race travelling at below the speed of light could still colonise the galaxy in less than six million years.
I guess I am trying say if I can come up with some simple answers to the obvious questions why can't WB come up with a decent script? Remember this story has survived and evolved over sixty years, stick to the basics and the movie will work; take Spidermans web shooters, these were still web shooters even if they became bilogical rather than mechanical, it was IHMO a better solution, and worked with the genetic engineering angle, which had already in the comics replaced the original [but now fanciful and dated] radioactive spider bite origin story. Again I say stick the the basics, and like Smallville run with them, abandon the icons of the myth at your peril. -
This fiasco of a movie makes no sense whatssoever. Since when can Lex fly? I thought he was human. And he's a government agent? Since when? Movies never established this neither did the comics. Who the hell are the Kryptonian villians? Braniaic I heard of but not these guys. Incidentally Superman 1 had Superman in Lex's pool when he was wearing the kryptonite around his neck. Miss Teshmacher saved him rememebr? So my question is: How the hell would he die underwater while saving Lois? he's Superman he can survive under there. About Jimmy Olsen being gay: WHAT THE FUCK? Why would you suggest this? how does this help the storyline? Who says he's gay? Script makes no sense. it'll bomb. AOL Time Warner is already having problems. I guess you wanna make it worse.
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Yeah it sounds kind of crappy so far, war hell if there going to do that it would be best if its Darkside and his forces (that would further make supermans hatered toward him) especially if DARKSIDE destroys supermans home plant (or turns it into his own) thus saying supermans plant was destroyed in a differnt way, (tell me that would not kick ass) as for jimmy i dont mind if JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE plays the role but why make him gay (although it would look funny) is it some weird director like priest fantisy (is that something you want your kids to see and ask you later about) anyways making krypton into a new slave plant would explain the birth of supergirl later, or it that the second capsule that was found for, SUPER suit made of luqid like form (im thinking funny/ stupid, hey! its flubber) DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE of putting some well knowed actor like BRANDON FRAISER yeah daredevil made good money but no where near spiderman so if you want to give them compition get some one almost unknown because i am waiting for DD when it comes out on DVD (but probably wont buy it) if i am right? then i bet the HULK movie is going to blow away DD and it will pass or be close to SPIDER- MAN, and why because of an hardly known actor.
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Damn i almost for got i really think (anthony) MAN EATER HANNIBLE LECTOR would be a much better LEX LUTHER tell me he wouldnt, and the hope that one day superman thinks he can save his world one day he travels to the ALIENS HOME WORLD IN STEAD, im sure the producers and script screw can think of a good way to make it happen (yeah right) and as for M. Night being the Director i say that would be great, if someone would ask him the stop resting from his vacation and get back to productions (but he diserves it with 3 good movies back to back) my choice would still be TIM burton (he did it for BATMAN why not superman) kiss his ass back into production, if not get james cameron (he did make terminator 2 right?) o yeah but as far as the script goes, it has potential and people are still going to watch it but tell me this THEY HAVE A GREAT AMERICAN HERO THAT CAN MOVE TO SO MANY MOVIES (JLA, SUPERMAN VS ALIENS, BATMAN AND SUPERMAN, ETC) BUT IF YOU DONT PLAY YOUR CARDS RIGHT? WELL GUESS WERE GOING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS HUH?
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i would just like to agree with everyone who had bad things to say about this movie. These people are doing everything they posibly could to make this movie suck hairy balls. it seems anything that they could make go wrong, they're doing, Lex Flies? Krypton still exists? what the hell? why get away from the orginal story? its good, and no one wants to see a different superman, if they dont change the script this movie is gonna fuckin suck, i just feel sorry for whatever actor has to play superman in this abomination
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How could anyone do this to Superman? I mean, honestly... Not only is he the original super-hero, he is a legend in his own right. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Superman, but this script sounds like it takes the Superman character, pulls off his arse and sticks it where his face should be... I mean, really, what the fuck is all that living suit shit? What is the point?? Kung Fu Superman? Is that the new line of toys? Seems to me that if WB go ahead with this script, they are heading for complete disaster, and I sure as hell am not going to watch it... If the Death of Superman is really the premise of this so called "trilogy", then surely Doomsday would be a much better story arc... i.e. following the COMICS!!!
Adaptation is such a nasty word when scripts like this one is produced... -
why. why do they have to do this. why as people do we allow the wb to continue to put out such filth. i dont get it. why do they do this to us. do they think we are stupid. i fucking hate the wb. i hate them so much. please join me in the battle to bring them so their knees. please stop watching them. just stop. no more 7th heaven,(which ill admit i watch but after they ran the characters off and ran the same damn story for 2 years i got tired of it) no more gilmore girls (which i dont remember if it ever really did have a story line. from what i gather its just 2 bitches going back and forth with each other all damn day) no more smallville(i mean for the love of god) no more birds of prey if its still on(i love batman, dont get me going) no more everwood, no more what i like about you or whatever the hell show it is with that bynes girl and the chick from 90210, no more reba (i mean, reba? seriously?) i just dont understand why they are trying to kill everything. please heads of the WB. i beg of you. do not make this movie. in fact just shut down. the world would be better if you did.
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I can understand why so many people would be upset about the new superman script. Admittedly, some parts of it need to be re-evaluated. Such as the Luthor is a kryptonian, and Kal-El dying and being resurrected by his father's urging. However, as I read all the negative responses, I have to say that people this is just a story. Who cares if Krypton doesn't explode or their are more than one kryptonian on earth. So what. The first Superman movie with Chris Reaves was a very good carbon copy adaption of the comic, so it thats what you want fo look at that. I don't understand why so many of you are so rigid on the so called superman "cannon". Were not talking about religion here, just a good story. A re-imaginating of the mythos is not a bad idea, but an idea whose time has come. If it weren't for people with imaginations, we'd still be living in caves. Worshipping the sun. Get over it people, get a job, go find a date and let the new superman movie be.
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I guess I must have been living under a rock or something, but I just heard that there might be a Superman V. At first I thought,
How cool is that? So I logged on
to Ain't it Cool to get the scoop,
read the review by Moriarty, and
am totally devastated. Why the
heck are they changing everything?
I admit, with all of today's
new computer fx, there could really be an awesome movie made.
But the major part of movie making
is the plot, you know, the story
line. Why mess with a great story
line? Like the destruction of Krypton. Or Lex Luthor? They got it right the first time. Leave that part alone, and
think of something else for Superman to do. By now, shouldn't
he and Lois be getting married or
something? Just kidding. What kind of superhero would he be if
he had to stop by the store on the
way home from stopping a nuclear
meltdown with a "honey-do" list?
But seriously, can't they think of
anything else that would be more in line with the actual origins of
Superman? I mean, come on! If this movie is made, with the script (as reviewed) like it is, this movie will be the let down
of the century! -
It's called Superman V, so why shouldn't they go on with the story and instead rewrite the mythology (what's about all those pretty lame things???)?
We already saw some bad superkryptonians ... We have no need to see any other - and that much? Even Luthor? No, this is bad stuff.
Maybe they even change Supes costume to be just black, hun?
I mean, there are so many good stories out there - people will rent the DVDs from Superman I - IV, when they see movie posters of a Superman V, right? So there is no need to waste screen time - start with a new story.
And BLOW THAT DAMNED PLANET KRYPTON UP, because it's the requirement to have a Superman on earth, to have Kryptonite and to have Lex Luthor as a criminal mastermind.
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Please do not cast Ashton Kutcher, Kip, or Barry in this movie. You will be making a joke out a a legendary figure. Why not audition Tom Welling he plays an excellent Clark in Smallville....
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The thing is there are some things in the scripts that are cool,like the mountain top listening fest, that scene is inspired, kind of brings his purpose into focus to heed the call of the hurting and in need. but for the rest of the script it seems as though all that is concerned about is recreating a new improved image that can be called his own, take a tip from smallville, at first I was a little skeptical about it but the writers and producers have taken it and really jointed it with the rest of superman's past storylines and kept it centered to the developement of clark kent/Superman as a personality and giving reason on how he turns into the man that he becomes.
I beleive that staying as close to the passion of the story and the romance for an ideal that people always look for in themeselves, and identify with the character of superman who sacrifices all for love, justice, and peace.
so I beg of you take into great consideration of the storyline and how it matches up, because you are not just making a summer blockbuster but you are adding to one of the most inspirational story's of all time.
So please be willing to sacrifice for something that is more than just money. Do what is right and it will be worth it. -
This is what I would do after reading this yesterday and seeing the problems in it I sat down and thought it over.
One thing I see is the mountain top scene.
I see Clark Kent shortly after his realization of superman, (him finding the suit) and making it someway that his father has a heart attack and he blames himself.
After the funeral he goes to metropolis gets a job, meets lois lane as clark with glasses.
Has something trigger a moment of doubt. somekind of catastraphy either personal or external.
Come over with greive he goes to the mountains, and kneels down, cries out "God why am I here?" then bows his head in his hands.
Immediately after almost like an echo, a womens voice says "God why am I here?" then a continuous but not confusing streem of crys of help almost prayer like coming from all over the earth. then after a few moments of this he hears an outstanding actual cry for help.
He recognizes the voice its the lovely Lois Lane. Then with a determination a renewed sense of confidence he takes off and saves the day and is presented to the world as superman. -
I have to say that script seems atrocious. Like the upcoming Catwoman and Constantine, this title is being milked for name recognition.
Personally, I have no problem with a the story not being 100% faithful to the source material. Hell, all comic flicks thus far have had to have some breaks with the comics for assorted reasons (some stuff doesnt work well on film and, admittedly, some comic stuff is pretty badly written). With Superman, I would expect some rewrites since Action Comics is pretty badly written stuff (typically alot of, *gasp*, action and little else). This is especially true when compared to stuff by comic greats out like Elis, Bendis, Moore or whoever. That being said, they shouldnt make a rewrite that is exponentially worse than the source material and they should always try to stay true to the spirit and themes of the source material and deviate only when necessary.
Perhaps the problem here is that few in Hollywood actually respect:
1) comic characters
2) the audience
Comic films that do not insult the intelligence of the audience or their source material (like Spiderman 2, Xmen 2, Superman 2, man lots of great comic sequels out there...) tend to be alot better than garbage like this. Seems to me that getting a good script would be alot less expensive than cramming a title full of gratuitous special effects and big budget actors.
Heres to hoping the next Batman doesnt blow as bad as this. -
... and see if it was as horrible as I remembered. Yup, it is.
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Yeesh.
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But I am really in no way married to the superman mythology, so the changes didn't affect me one bit.
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May 05, 2006 10:55:34 AM CDT
I really wish this script had been allowed to develop
by regicidal_maniac
instead of being selfishly savaged. It's a hell of a lot better than waht awaits thanks to Singer and his atrocity.
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I for one wanted to see Superman doing Kung fu. I mean who doesn't? Can't believe now I'm going to have to sit through a movie that resembles...I don't know...Superman.
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Abrams wrote this?
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I would much rather have seen this film then what did come out. The original Superman vibe was solid and complete in 1978's Superman the Movie. Why retread that? I'm up for something unpredictable and weird.
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but not under the "superman" name
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Keep the faith, brother.
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I loved this article
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Stupid script
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