I don’t cover a great deal of television, but then again, not a lot of TV shows star Allison Tolman, the Texas-born breakout star of Season 1 of “Fargo” with deep roots in Chicago’s Second City. She’d been a working actor on TV and film before “Fargo,” but that show tapped into her ability to dominate every scene she was in without appearing to do so. Since then, she’s appeared in such films as KRAMPUS and the haunting SXSW premiere LA BARRACUDA. She’ll soon be seen in the Will Ferrell-Amy Poehler comedy THE HOUSE, set for release June 30, and the action-comedy WHY WE’RE KILLING GUNTHER, written and directed by Taran Killam and starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.
But the reason I sat down with Tolman recently was her new ABC midseason comedy “Downward Dog,” and although the show does allow us a peak into the world through eyes of a Tolman’s pet dog, whose thoughts the audience can hear. Tolman plays Nan, who is involved in an on-again/off-again relationship with boyfriend Jason (Lucas Neff, from “Raising Hope”), and clearly her dog is confused by Jason being gone from Nan’s life for stretches, only to return to spend the night occasionally. Despite the talking-dog motif, “Downward Dog” isn’t going for big laughs; it’s more an observational exercise about an undefined relationship and how when we view our lives from the outside, they can look pretty ridiculous. I’ve seen the first four episodes of the show, and I’ve grown really fond of these characters already.
Tolman and Neff were in Chicago recently to promote the show, which is currently running on Tuesday nights on ABC, and we sat down to discuss the challenges of pulling in viewers to a show with a central concept that seems broad but is actually quite intriguing and ripe with possibilities. Please enjoy my chat with Alison Tolman and Lucas Neff…
Capone: I’m not familiar with press tours for TV shows. Is that what this is, or are you here for another reason?
Allison Tolman: Kind of. Well because so much of the cast has connections to Chicago, we really wanted to not just push in New York and LA; we wanted to come to Chicago as well. We thought it was worthwhile.
Lucas Neff: Also, you know, it’s about fucking time the Chicago market is acknowledged.
Capone: They’re shooting a lot of TV here right now. Alison, you were in a show before that was mostly a drama, hyper violent at times, but it was also very funny. This feels like the complete opposite of that, where you think it’s going to mostly funny…
AT: …but then there’s blood and lots of murder. [laughs]
Capone: The dog is so violent, I know. But it’s actually a relationship drama disguised as this comedy.
AT: I totally agree. I think it’s a flip flop. It’s a reversal.
Capone: Was that one of the things that you said, “If people actually watch this, they’re going to understand that it’s not just a talking-dog show”?
AT: Yes. I mean, certainly. It was a concern obviously going in. From the moment I was attached to the project, I was like “How are we going to advertise it? hHow are we going to market it?” Because it seems like such a low-brow concept, but it’s not. It’s really smart and funny and interesting and sweet and tinder. So yeah, that was definitely a concern from me in the beginning—how do we get the right eyeballs on this really smart show?
Capone: I was actually a huge “Raising Hope” fan. This is more in that vibe. Again, it’s a silly concept, but at the end of every episode, it ended up being this wonderful family story.
LN: Yeah, I was about to say, my history was the opposite of Allison’s in terms of I’m very used to things that can ostensively, in a superficial way, be predetermined by their packaging, like talking-dog show, or a zany, crazy comedy about a low-class family can feel cartoonish. Especially because [“Raising Hope” creator] Greg Garcia is awesome but can be very different tonally from “Downward Dog.” It’s a big, cartoon farcical stuff, but underneath it if you sit around and watch the show, there’s actually a beating heart to it, and there’s some thoughtfulness and real human warmth, and this shows the exact same way. From the outside, you’re like “Oh, I get it. It’s a dog that talks.” But when you actually watch the show, you walk away with something that’s a little more substantive and human. What was it you said the other day? “Come for the dog, stay for the humans”?
AT: “Come for the dog, stay for the humanity.” Yeah.
Capone: I watched the four episodes they gave me in one sitting, and my first thought “Well that felt like a fun indie film.” I had completely forgotten that this show premiered at Sundance. How much of it did you play there?
AT: The first four episodes.
Capone: It was. And it feels like a Sundance movie.
AT: That’s awesome that you felt that way. We loved the fact that we had a short season because we were able to have a comprehensive arc throughout the season and not have to figure out too many hijinks for the dog to get into. But yeah, I feel like our hope is that it does feel like the season is one long movie.
LN: Yeah, I think it also feels cinematic to me the way it’s shot. If you saw it on a big screen, it really translates well to the big screen. We had great DPs, and I know the creators really wanted to make a show that felt like a film, that felt like more like cable TV, and I think they pulled it off.
Capone: If I remember it correctly, in the web series, the human characters didn’t even talk, so when you were first pitched this idea—
LN: That was one of my first demands. I was like “The humans are going to talk.”
AT: [laughs] “I better have lines.”
Capone: I thought it would maybe be the opposite: “I want a role where I don’t have to talk”.
AT: That’s amazing. I’m just blurry in the background a little bit.
LN: Maybe just sit in the chair…
[Everybody laughs]
Capone: How was it presented to you? What was it about these characters that hooked you and made you think “I can do something with this; I can build on to this”?
AT: Honestly, it was the opposite. I read the script and was like “Her lines are funny, I like this character, I like this woman, I’d like to play this woman, but I don’t really get it.” Then I watched the shorts, then I got it. The tone was essential for me really understanding the project and being invested in it. So once I watched the shorts, I was like sort of fully sold on it.
LN: Yeah, I think everybody says the same sort of thing. It’s like a microcosm of how I think people experience the show now. On paper, it’s like “What?” The tone is so key to understanding what the show actually is. Everybody I’ve talked to that’s on the show saw the web series. Even producers or executives who are like “We didn’t really get it, but we saw the web series and were like ‘This is something really interesting.’” It was the same for me. I didn’t get it, but also the character breakdown of Jason was like “Hairy millennial man-child.”
AT: “Puppy-dog eyes. Sleeve of tattoos.”
LN: Yeah, tattoos. I was like “This feels very specific.” So it felt like a natural fit, in terms of the character. “This will be fun and easy.”
AT: And close to yourself a little bit.
LN: Yeah, and close to myself. “This will be a walk in the park.” Then I saw the web series, and I’m just like “This is better than anything you’d expect to see on network TV.”
Capone: At least in these first four episodes, the nature of your characters’ relationship changes with each episode—you’re sleeping together and regretting it immediately. Then in the last couple of episodes, you’re pushing the friendship thing almost too much. Are we going to get some balance, or is this part of the fun of this, that it never stabilizes?
AT: It teeter totters. You’ve seen half the season now. It continues to teeter totter for the rest of the season, back and forth.
LN: Yeah. I don’t know if maybe my experience is unique, but as far as I know it, most relationships are pretty unstable the whole way through.
Capone: Maybe not this unstable.
LN: All relationship experiences flux to some degree, and I think the thing that we’re trying to do is trying to make it feel organic and not contrived to the show, but the great thing is that though the season, there’s an arc for almost all the characters; there’s an arc for the relationships. I don’t think this is a show that’s about resolution. It embraces uncertainty in a real intentional way. I don’t know that any character ever will end up in a totally certain place, at least existentially or internally.
AT: I know that Samm [Hodges], our head writer, pushes against that. He doesn’t like that. He does want to keep that sense of real life where things are unknown and answers aren’t totally clear.
LN: Even if you end up together, does that mean things are figured out?
AT: What happens after the credits? What happens to the happy couple?
LN: I’m not saying we’re going to “Sopranos” on you, but I do think an important part of his viewpoint, his lens, is that the world is uncertain and there are certain things that will always remain unknowable, and I don’t think he would want to write any ending for any character that betrays that worldview.
Capone: That actually is one of the wonderful uses of the dog character is that, as humans we’re watching your relationship thinking “Everyone goes through this, I’ve been through this, whatever,” but the dog is really confused by it. He seems to get along great with your character, which I almost feel is one of the reasons you won’t break things off entirely. It’s amplified in the dog’s reactions to things.
AT: Yeah. The simplification of human behavior though the lens of the dog is really fun. He’s like “Jason was here, then he left again, then he was here again, then left again. I don’t know what’s going on.” That’s exactly right. That’s what on-again/off-again relationships are like to the outside eye.
LN: There was something I noticed watching the episodes again recently. I think it was probably intentional just because Samm and Michael [Killen, another writer] are so smart. But throughout the episode, the dog will always be like “This is the worst day of my entire life,” or “This is the best day of my entire life.” Like each day is the most significant day of his entire life, which is exactly how a dog would experience a day because there’s no barometer of “A week ago I was sadder.” Dogs are just like “I’m sad. This is the saddest I’ve ever been.” So I really like that he does experience everything in this visceral, right now way. It gives us an opportunity to examine ourselves anew.
Capone: You both have degrees of roots in this city [Neff was born in Chicago]. What do you think is the most Chicago thing about you?
LN: Oh man. I have a real chip on my shoulder. I’ve got that little-brother complex that I feel everybody in Chicago has. You know what I mean? “Second city to none!” Instantly if I feel like people are talking down to me or slighting me in some way, I get real Chicago, real like “No thanks, man. I’m not into it.” Yeah, I don’t know. That and a desire for cheese and bread constantly.
[Everybody laughs]
AT: What is the most Chicago thing about me? I don’t know. I miss living here a lot. And I crave weather. I crave it. I understand why people like the homogeny of Los Angeles, but boy, do I miss waking up in the morning and not knowing if it might rain that day. I love that feeling.
LN: It’s difficult to explain to people in Los Angeles that you’re like “Oh yeah, often times throughout the year, I boil water so that I can get into my car.
[Everybody laughs]
Capone: I’ve never done that before, but I know people that do.
LN: It’s a terrible idea, because you’re just putting more water that’s going to freeze. It’s a real temporary solution.
AT: But you can get it.
LN: Yeah, you can get in, which is all you need to do. Then you’ve got to sit in your car an hour warming up the engine.
Capone: Rubbing alcohol is better.
AT: Really? You spray it? I’ve heard that you spray it.
Capone: Yes. We have the spray bottle.
LN: The thing is, if I saw some dude on the street pouring rubbing alcohol on the handle of his car, I’d be like “That guy’s a murderer. That’s definitely a serial killer.”
AT: “He’s getting rid of some evidence.”
LN: “I’m watching a cover up right now.”
Capone: Someone said something to me about this show “I’m sure dog owners will love this show.” I think it’s more than dog owners; it’s anyone who’s ever had a pet that you’re fairly certain is judging you, or is curious by your behavior.
AT: Anyone who has an opinion about pets, their own or someone else's, will relate to this show. I think that’s a fair assessment.
LN: Absolutely. I feel like everybody’s relationship—to a certain extent you start having a relationship with another person when you have a pet. You’re having a dialogue with an animal, for sure. You definitely assume they’re plotting against you. I don’t know if that’s just my paranoia, but I’m pretty confident that’s what my dog is doing.
Capone: I’m a cat person, but I’m pretty sure cats are plotting against us.
AT: Yeah, always a step away from planning your murder.
LN: Cats are so great.
Capone: If I’m not mistaken, the dog never talks when there are people around. We never see him in a room with you guys talking.
AT: Even in the background.
Capone: I think he’s always in those cutaways, right?
AT: Yes. Even if he’s in the location where things are happening, I don't think that there are ever humans in the background.
Capone: It actually makes me feel a little bit better about the whole concept because it’s something separate. It’s like we’re in his brain.
AT: We’ve always said he’s not actually a talking dog. That would be ridiculous. It’s a special thing that happens between he and the audience, and it’s not a connection to any other reality in the show at all.
Capone: So Samm doesn’t have to be in the room with you reading lines or anything like that, because that never happens.
AT: Sometimes they do it as a voiceover. He’ll be talking and remembering “This thing happened before when Nan did this.” He’ll be remembering a time when we did something together. So sometimes Samm would read through a monologue just for timing so we would know. They’d be like “Allison, you need to pour that coffee for 10 seconds.” And I’d be like “I don’t know how I’m going to do that.”
LN: It’s a giant cup of coffee.
AT: It’s just a lot of coffee.
Capone: Alison, you have LA BARRACUDA that you’ll be in. I don’t know when that’s coming out.
AT: I don’t know either. LA BARRACUDA is still on the festival circuit right now. I have a movie coming out at the end of June called THE HOUSE.
Capone: Right, that’s a big one.
AT: And then the rest of the things I’ve done I’m just waiting for them to tell me when they’re airing. I don’t know.
Capone: But aren’t you also in that film Taran Killam directed that got him fired from SNL?
AT: I was. Well, that’s a rumor.
Capone: I hope it is. But he tells it [laughs]. Yeah, we were shooting that movie when that news came in, but he’s a great director, so he’s not going to be hurting for work, for sure.
Capone: Then what about you, Lucas?
LN: I’ve got this movie coming out June 9 called I LOVE YOU BOTH.
Capone: I saw the trailer. About the twins, right? It’s a funny idea.
LN: Yeah, it’s a really good little movie.
AT: It’s a funny preview.
LN: Yeah, then you can hear me as a robot on “Big Hero 6: the TV show coming out this fall. Then I’ll pop up on “Ballers.”
Capone: Best of luck with this, guys. So it’s eight episodes this season?
