@’s by AJ Lieberman!!!
HUMPHREY LEE (HL): Well sir, we’ve done this dance a couple times now, even though it’s been a while, so let’s go right to the existential question of “Why?” In this case I’m referring to two topics though, why a book like DEEP SOUL with its technology based existentialism and why to kicking off a new publishing house, Doppelganger Publishing, that DEEP SOUL is under the banner?A.J. LIEBERMAN (AJ): “Why?” Existentialism 101! My god, how many readers have we lost already?! But it’s funny ‘cause I don’t see DEEP SOUL as a “technological based existentialism” story. I see it as about a guy who is unable, or unwilling, to let his comatose wife just slip away and the mayhem that his devotion causes in the wider world. And as a writer I love when doing something good and noble leads to something very, very bad.
As for the “Why” of starting Doppelganger, my new publishing company? I’m a masochist. And I really, really enjoy dealing with lawyers. No, basically my partner in Doppelganger, Darren Rawlings, and I just wanted more control of our stories and wanted to try our hand at helping others do the same.
HL: I’ll pull back from “attacking” on two fronts and focus more on the book first. Is DEEP SOUL a response of some sort to our technological pushes in recent years or was it just more an exercise in telling something on the spiritual side, or both?
AJ: Was it a response to a technological push? Not really but this is coming from a guy who still has a flip phone. But no, I wasn’t responding to any societal technological push. I would say that any “tech” themes that arise are by-products of the human story of this man trying to save his wife from being trapped in what he’s discovered and calls a Deep Soul. It’s the Law of Unintended Consequences: what happens when someone creates a breakthrough (be it industrial, technological, or scientific) and that breakthrough becomes “public”. The Wright brothers were at Kitty Hawk in 1903. By 1911 people were dropping bombs out of planes. I wanted to apply that conceit to Jake’s research. He discovers this amazing scientific breakthrough, developed for a specific reason but morphs into something way beyond what he was ready for when discovered by the wider public.As far as the spirituality of the idea goes, I wish I could say the story stems from some transcendent moment but it didn’t. In fact, before the book was published a few executives read it and one described it as a cool take on the reincarnation genre and literally up until that moment I never once thought of DEEP SOUL has having anything to do with reincarnation.
Looking over your questions that “R” word never comes up but the “S” word (spirituality) does. I feel a lot of people connect “spirituality” and “reincarnation”. And while spirituality is very important I didn’t want it to become the focal point of the story. To me that meant I was treading in what some might call the “Nicholas Sparks” end of the pool.
HL: As a gaming nerd I feel like you can’t help but have been inundated with Virtual Reality material from the devices themselves like the Oculus Rift to stories within the games themselves involving high grade tech being used to live out different lives, ala the “Assassin’s Creed” games and their Animus chair. Was any of this an influence?AJ: Not really, no. Obviously there’s some tech in DEEP SOUL but I tried to keep it to the bare-essentials so it wouldn’t over take the story. There’s a great Nebula Award winning short story by Ted Chiang called THIS IS YOUR LIFE which is about first contact with an alien race but deals with it exclusively with the scientific community trying to figure out their language. Now, as we all know, first-contact-with-aliens stories can go any number of ways. Chiang took one specific angle. That’s what I wanted to do with DEEP SOUL.
HL: It’s funny that in your eyes what you’ve created here is a love story first and the science-y stuff you “treated the science as fact” and moved on. You self-describe as one of those filthy, flip-phoning lowlanders of the world, but as a guy who likes his Science Fiction, I feel you really did have some good takes on the technology from a tale-spinning approach but that also has real life practicality, such as how Penn kept Tristan’s mind and body going while she was in her regressed state. Was this just good research with some improv on your part or do you have impressions on how our real life technology is moving that you imprinted on the book whilst writing?
AJ: Okay, first, I have a flip phone so I don’t have to spend my day answering texts and e-mails. Almost without exception everyone who sees me on it (after they stop laughing) is like, “You lucky S.O.B!” But to answer the question, it’s a bit a both. Once I land on an idea and know generally what it’s going to encompass, I do a shit ton of research some of which finds it’s way into the story and some that doesn’t but helps me know how to handle certain story elements.
But, yes, I wanted to come at it in a as matter-of-fact way as possible: Okay, if someone were to figure out what Jake figures out, how would it happen, what would it mean and, more importantly, if it “got out” before Jake could really understand all the ramifications, what would the repercussions be.HL: Were you concertedly trying to put that there as a counterpoint for a balance of the two story types or did you envision it as more one way or the other and it happened to play out that way or how did this all evolve?
AJ: It's a little of both. I think another reason why people are reacting so strongly to the book is because we all secretly wonder if we’re simply a series of common chemicals that result in a temporary span of life or are we part of a chain of linked lives long forgotten but never fully erased. Come hell or high water Jake wants to save his wife. What makes the story so interesting is watching just how deep that water gets for Jake.
HL: And okay, I’ve talked about Tech for too long and that’s probably unbalancing this but that’s what really gets my brain juices going; so what philosophical paths, if any, came into play here as you were creating the framework? You mentioned the reincarnation over spirituality a bit ago so it seems like you were deliberately trying to avoid getting religious but, as you also mentioned, to some people reincarnation and spirituality go hand in hand. Were you just trying to draw some metaphysical aspects out of some current belief systems and run with it or did those systems not even factor and you just focused on a more “Webster’s” definition of reincarnation and want to make a story about that? And what troubles did you run into trying to not cross those lines if that’s the case? And what are your favorite food, color, and sports team since I’m asking seventeen questions at once while really trying to dig into your psyche?
AJ: Lasagna, blue and Barcelona (followed by a great steak, yellow and Bayern Munich). And it’s not that I chose reincarnation over spirituality which, I think, most people link together in one or another, it’s just I felt this story needed those two things to be separated. Look, if it doesn’t work as a story it doesn’t really matter what belief system or metaphysical philosophy I want to push, it’s not gonna be very good. Simply telling a good story is the driving force for me. Everything gets sacrificed for story.HL: So we’ve talked enough between us on the side that I think you know I’m a man interested in running things/how things run, so what gives with the new Publishing jaunt? Where did the roots of this come from, what persons are involved, etc?
AJ: Yes, we’ve been talking now since COWBOY NINJA VIKING and here’s what I know about you: you work an insane amount of hours a week, seemingly get paid slightly more than a guy who takes tickets at PNC Park, and may have a semi-professional drinking problem! No, my partner in Doppelganger, Darren Rawlings, and I had started talking about doing this when we met on our OGN called THE SILVER SIX, which we did with SCHOLASTIC in 2013. Throughout THE SILVER SIX process (about a year) Rawls and I probably talked once or twice a day. So during this long creative process of putting that book together we realized we had similar goals and work habits and similar POV on what it takes to get new projects off the ground. We both have had a decent amount of success (Rawls owns THINKMORE STUDIOS an animation company) and realized we were in position (creatively & financially) to make it happen.
HL: Since I’m a masochist who actually finds logistics fascinating, what exactly are the logistics behind an endeavor like this? Like, how much of a micromanaging process is it? Are you constantly on hold with the printers negotiating bulk rates, are you just selling through the site right now or working on through ways to the distributors, have you resorted to heavy casual drinking ala “Mad Men” and so on?
*Tags in Mr. Darren Rawlings to field some of this logistical wordplay*
DARREN RAWLS (DR): The most fascinating thing about the logistics of starting a company like this is the fact that you don't know everything and are always learning something new. There's always some little detail you didn't think about ahead of time, especially as an artist or writer who isn't trained in the subtle nuances of business! If you didn't go to school for this kind of stuff, it's really all on you to do the research, make the choices and then learn from the outcome and adapt where needed.AJ: For sure the learning curve on things like printers, paper stock and, because Rawls lives in Canada and I live in the states, international banking regulations, was ridiculous. At each step Darren and I would get fed up with the “start-up” aspects of getting this thing up and running and had running joke about renaming the company. I Don’t Know What an Operating Agreement is But I’m Told We Need One; and Leaving a Cult Would Be Easier Than Dealing with TD Bank and Lawyers Suck! These were all names we considered.
RAWLS: As far as selling the book we are selling off the site. As well as on Comixology.
HL: I see the site for Doppelganger itself has up a Submissions section, is there a plan of attack in place there for finding book ideas? Are you folks kind of hoping to lure over some industry vets whose work you are familiar with, or are you leaning more to finding new faces and styles, or is it just all about the pitch?
AJ: It’s all about the pitch.
RAWLS: Both of us are strong supporters of finding the diamonds in the rough. There are tons of super-talented & creative individuals out there with amazing stories we definitely support and welcome new faces into the industry.
AJ: Also, it’s all about the pitch.
RAWLS: That said our doors are wide open to our friends and colleagues who have already been in the industry for some time! We'd love to have a good mix of new blood and big names come on board!
AJ: Look, we’re not naive, we understand we’re going up against really well oiled machines with the other creator owned publishers out there but we think we’ve carved out a niche where Doppelganger can really make an impact for creators. Hundreds of creator owned books are published each month. And what we’ve found is that most creators just don’t have the relationships in place to maximize / exploit the success of their books. I’ve been very fortunate to have a fair amount of success since leaving DC and starting my creator owned career. I did COWBOY NINJA VIKING, which is at Universal, and has Chris Pratt attached with David Leitch and Chad Stahelski (John Wick) directing. Rhett Reese & Paul Wernick (Deadpool, Zombieland) wrote a draft, as did Craig Mazen (Hangover II & III). I wrote the OGN TERM LIFE and the screenplay for the movie. I’ve sold pitches to Universal. Darren runs THINKMORE, an international known animation studio. And, as I write this, we’re working on a deal to set up DEEP SOUL as a potential TV series. This is where we think Doppelganger can carve out some space in the creator owned publishing arena: Leveraging our past successes to help other creators set up their books.
HL: That gives me the perfect through way to wrap this up and talk about these projects actually as a catch up since the last time we chatted, and I’m curious since, well, not like I’ve ever optioned anything, unfortunately. How exactly does that process work? Like, do you get to consult much on the way COWBOY NINJA VIKING is developing script wise or get to sit in on any casting couches or anything, or are you finding out that, holy crap, “Chris Pratt is attached!!” like the rest of us when L.A. Times puts out that headline. Also, how far are you all exactly into the submission process? Any timelines on when more material will be coming forth, able to give us a sneak on creative teams or some title story pitches or whatnot?AJ: As far as submissions we’ve literally just started. DEEP SOUL was our first book and we used that as a kind of dress rehearsal before opening the floodgates. With DEEP SOUL done, we’ve started our second book and have just now turned what little attention we have to submissions. We’ve been pretty lucky since starting our careers to get to know a lot of talented people. Our plan is to pick a few of those people and invite them to do something with Doppelganger while opening submissions to the general public. There is a submissions guideline on the Doppelganger site.
As far as the optioning stuff goes, it all depends on the deal and relationships you have with the studios and producers. With TERM LIFE I was involved because I wrote the screenplay (not that I had control in any way over the end result. The director and producers decide that). With COWBOY NINJA VIKING I was less involved but was kept in the loop as things progressed. As far as how to get a book optioned that’s tough because it’s so nebulous. Obviously, first and foremost, the book has to be great. Someone has to want it. But that alone isn’t always enough. How many creator owned books come out every single month? Hundreds? Plus now E-books are impacting the market. It’s really hard for creative teams with little to no traction to get their book in front of the right people to get it optioned.
HL: Obviously the answer is to Highlander your way through the rest of the comic book creating community, that way you can stand atop the Optioning hierarchy.
But there you have it folks, a new publishing venue to keep your eye out for and/or to send your hopes and dreams to, an Original Graphic Novel featuring a machine that will tap into your very lifeline and reincarnation to check out, and some hot “how the sausage is made” action about optioning and publishing and it wasn’t completely horrifying like with real sausage. As always, I like to thank all involved for their time and willingness to probe their brain meat like, well, one of those vile sausage-making sadists.
So, yeah, check out DEEP SOUL on its website here or grab a digital copy on Comixology if you’re interested in what you’ve read here. And, of course, keep an eye out for any of AJ’s upcoming adapted features, if for no reason than that Chris “Nerd Dreamboat” Pratt may actually be leading in one of them. Cheers!
Humphrey Lee has been an avid comic book reader going on fifteen years now and a contributor to Ain't It Cool comics for quite a few as well. In fact, reading comics is about all he does in his free time and where all the money from his day job wages goes to - funding his comic book habit so he can talk about them to you, our loyal readers (lucky you). He's a bit of a social networking whore, so you can find him all over the Interwebs on sites like Twitter, The MySpaces, Facebookand a blog where he also mostly talks about comics with his free time because he hasn't the slightest semblance of a life. Sad but true, and he gladly encourages you to add, read, and comment as you will.
Proofs, co-edits & common sense provided by Sleazy G
