Boy, do I get a kick out of Thomas Haden Church. After kicking around on some memorable (“Wings”) and not-so-memorable TV shows and movies, as well as low-budget films for 15 years or so, the guy became an overnight sensation thanks to a little film called SIDEWAYS, for which he received an Oscar nomination. That performance led to a wide variety of roles in such works as the TNT movie BROKEN TRAILS (for which he won an Emmy for Supporting Actor in a Miniseries or Movie) and perhaps his highest-profile performance as Flint Marko (aka Sandman) in SPIDER-MAN 3.
These larger parts were supplemented by some fantastic voice work in the animated film OVER THE HEDGE as Dwayne the Verminator, and playing a crow in CHARLOTTE'S WEB. And who could forget his legendary work as the CEO of Brawndo in IDIOCRACY? In more recent years, he’s been seen in EASY A, William Friedkin’s KILLER JOE, Cameron Crowe’s WE BUILT A ZOO, JOHN CARTER (as a martian), and opposite Greg Kinnear in last year’s surprise hit HEAVEN IS FOR REAL. He’ll soon be seen in the Mark Wahlberg-Will Farrell Christmas release DADDY’S HOME and in a new HBO series with Sarah Jessica Parker “Divorce.”
His latest film is MAX about a military dog, who returns stateside after a traumatic event that killed his handler and happens to be Church’s oldest son. Church plays a grizzled Texas father who learns to heal along with the dog, and as always, the actor is the most memorable thing in the film. It’s what he does. Please enjoy my talk with Thomas Haden Church…
Capone: Hi. How are you?
Thomas Haden Church: Hi, Steve. Thanks for coming.
Capone: Of course. Great to meet you.
THC: [The previous journalist’s] father was in the Army Air Corps, and so was mine, and her father died the same year as mine at the same age. That was remarkable.
Capone: How long ago was that?
THC: Three years ago. He died at 86, and her father died at 86.
Capone: I was going to ask you about that later, but since you mentioned it: your dad did serve in World War II. How was it for you playing this part? Was this the first time you’ve come that close to paralleling his experience in a role?
THC: It definitely played a part in my decision. My dad’s military profile as I was growing up—and it wasn’t just my dad. I have a great uncle who was a rear admiral during World War II, and there’s actually—I don't think it’s a wing, but there’s an alcove in the Pentagon that’s named after him, my uncle. He was a rear admiral in the Pacific Theater, where my dad served in the Army Air Corps and then in the armored infantry, in Guam, in the Philippines and Okinawa. But it definitely played a part, because I’d never played a solider. So my dad’s legacy was always present when I was growing up
I would say comparable to that was that I thought the perspective of telling the story of a different kind of war hero, that these war dog units, they’re not as well known and as well publicized with the public. You don’t see a lot of media activity surrounding these animals. Their involvement is so vital to the survival to the soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, but they date back pre-American history in serving with the military and helping save and protect soldiers. That’s why I just thought it was such a unique story about everything that a dog solider can be susceptible to—the things human soldiers are susceptible to—getting killed, getting wounded, having emotional trauma, having post traumatic stress.
People are like, “Well, it’s a family movie.” But it starts out a war drama and becomes a family drama and a crime drama. But there really is some complex emotional stuff in this film of this family thrown into this confusion of loss, and a dog that they’ve never met before is going through the same thing.
Capone: It’s interesting that the younger son, who hasn’t really taken much of an interest in what his brother is doing or what his parents are going through, he’s drawn into this situation and put in the middle of this at home drama because of this dog.
THC: Grudgingly, right.
Capone: Outside of the military aspect of this story, when you read this script, was there something about this character that you latched onto and said, “Yeah, I can do something with this guy. I can breathe a little life into him.”
THC: For all of the reasons I mentioned, I saw it as an opportunity to play a wounded ex-combat vet. We chose Desert Storm, it chronologically fit the best into my life, my actual age and life. But he’s a father who has to undergo a tremendous tragedy, and then tries to pick up the pieces of his family, but has this diametric opposition to what his son is and who he wants that son to be; all this in the aftermath of losing somebody that I’m so proud of. But then there’s a burden of potential guilt and shame that I, in some way, lead him in my footsteps, which ultimately got him killed.
Capone: You’re playing a guy from Texas. A lot of times when we see a guy from Texas or the South in a movie, we subscribe certain traits to him. We think we know what he’s about and what his belief system is. How did you play against that and not make him a stereotypical southerner?
THC: Well, they lived in a neighborhood, and there are plenty of neighborhoods in Texas, but that’s an interesting question, because I don’t really think about Texans and stereotypes. I’m a rancher and run cattle on several ranches, but I try to play a fairly diverse array of characters. So whenever it comes to playing a guy from Texas, like I did in KILLER JOE, sometimes I actually think that it helps that we don’t make the movie in Texas. We shot this movie in Charlotte, North Carolina, and surrounding communities, one of which is where a whole bunch of my adopted family is all from. KILLER JOE we shot in New Orleans. So sometimes I think that actually helps. Have I played Texans in other movies? Nothing comes to mind right now. But I just don't think about it like that.“Okay, this is a Texan. How do I avoid stereotypes?” I just try to get into the life of that man, and figure out who that man is. I don’t even know if I avoided stereotypes in KILLER JOE, quite frankly. I don’t know if you saw it.
Capone: Oh, yes.
THC: Yeah. I don’t know if I avoided stereotypes in that, because [writer] Tracy Letts is from Texas, and Mathew McConaughey is from Texas, and I’m from Texas. When Billy [Friedkin] called me up and asked me to do the movie he was like, “Thomas, I need your authenticity, and I need you to help me with these other actors. They don't know how to live and breathe and be a Texan.” He said that to me, and I was like “Shit. I don't even know if I know how to live and breathe as a Texan. I’m just a dude. I’m just a guy that lives in Texas.” I like the White Stripes; that’s not a Texas thing.
Capone: A lot of Tracy Letts’ plays start here.
THC: Oh yeah. They live here. He and his wife have a house here, and an apartment in New York. What’s his wife’s name? That actress? She was in GONE GIRL. She played Ben Affleck’s sister. That’s his wife.
Capone: Carrie Coon. She’s awesome. Your character’s a bit of a hard ass, as we talked about, partly because his son doesn’t fit his classic definition of what a man is.
THC: Not at all. I’m not sure he lives up to his expectations of a girl [laughs]. All he does is sit around on the couch and game and ride his bike with his friends, and not show up for responsibilities. There again though, it was a familiar dynamic to me because my dad was a fairly stern disciplinarian. When I was a teenager—Josh [Wiggins] is supposed to be 15 in the movie—when I was 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 25, I couldn’t have had less in common with my dad, and more often than not, we couldn't agree on anything—my relationships with girls, my relationships with my brothers, my friends, my mom, my grandparents.
My dad was always like, “You need to spend more time with your grandmother. You need to get your ass down to Fort Worth more and see your grandfolks.” And I’m like, “Cool. I’m not going to do that. I’ll see them when I want to see them, not when you tell me to see them.” So the dynamic between Josh and I was very familiar. I was cast first in the film, and then they just started running ideas past me, and Boaz [Yakin, writer-director] wanted to send me this picture HELLION, and I said, “I honestly don’t want to be too familiar with Josh.”
Capone: He’s great in that movie.
THC: It’s a really good movie; I like him in it. I said, “I want it to be uncomfortable when I meet Josh, you know?” Even though, I think I’m even a little bit older than his real dad, who is a dog handler for the Houston PD.
Capone: Like bomb squad dogs?
THC: It is bomb squad dogs. Bombs, not narcotics. Yeah, for like 30 years with the Houston PD, he’s a real Steve McQueen kind of guy—real handsome and real rugged. I saw him on Sunday. But the point is, I was a defiant teenager; Josh is a defiant teenager; my dad was always trying to figure out “What the fuck?”, and I think that Ray is too. I do think that’s a lot of what’s going on. In the trailer, he says, “You’re supposed to be at work at 8am. What happened?” He’s like, “I don’t know what happened.” Typical teenager, shed responsibility attitude. And to me, it was very authentic.
Capone: I was going to ask you about working with Josh, because he really is untested in a great way.
THC: This is his third movie. Actually, it was his second. He’s shot another movie since.
Capone: At the time, HELLION had been his only other film, so he hasn’t gotten the chance to learn any bad habits yet as an actor.
THC: I’m not sure he will, because he’s a very thoughtful person. He couldn't come from a more normal background. He’s got three older bothers, who all look prepared to yank him around by the short hairs if he gets out of line. One of them is in the Army. His dad is a Houston police officer for 30 years. Somebody asked me the other day, “What was it like to work with Josh?” And I was like, “Very quiet.” He’s just a very quiet, thoughtful, young guy. I think that Josh is going to blossom into…the first person who comes to mind is an Ethan Hawke kind of actor or Casey Affleck. Somebody that has a quietness to them, because Josh has already got a great sense of humor. Now it’s going to be about getting the experience to do comedy. But he’s already funny. On Sunday they were like, “So how has he changed since you shot the movie?” I’m like, “Oh my god. He’s so cocky. He’s so cocky.” And Josh is standing there and goes, “I have turned into kind of a dick, haven't I?” But with three older brothers, how could you not have a sense of humor?
Capone: You make it sound like he’s quite because he’s using his brain.
THC: Yes. And also, Josh, he’s either asked a lot of questions or read or has some training, because at 15 last summer, he wouldn’t use actor-y words like “motivation,” but he’s like, “I just don't really understand why I would get up and go after him when he’s come in here, and he’s being very accusatory with me, and then he starts to leave, and I’m not really sure what changes to where I then want to go after him after he’s just been bitching at me about something.”
To me, it was clear in my mind why he would do it, and it was clear in Boaz’s mind why he would do it, but I was glad that Josh wanted to be clear on why he was going to do that. And we actually split the difference, because he was having trouble totally understanding the emotional moment, and it was okay, because if he’s confused about it as an actor, then maybe he should be confused about it in character. And that’s okay, man, because that’s the most authentic performance you’re going to get when what he’s really feeling is what the character should be really feeling, and it worked.
It’s that scene where I go up, and he’s in his brother’s room, and I make a remark to him, and he says something smart ass back, and I’m like, “What would you know about it?” And then he comes after me, and we’re on the staircase and I’m like, “You never sacrificed anything in your life.” And then the wife says, “Hey, they’re going to kill Max.” That was that moment, because Josh initially was like, “I think I should stay here and let you come in and let you leave.” And it was like, he just had to have it explained to him, and when he did understand it, he was like, “Okay, yeah. I do think that’s what I should do.” But it had to be real. Out of his heart, it had to come real.
Capone: The trailer for DADDY’S HOME just came out. What do you do in that film?
THC: Will [Farrell] works at a smooth jazz station in San Diego, and I am his boss, and let’s just say I take being Will’s boss about as aggressively far as a human can. The main rolls are Will and Mark [Wahlberg], Linda Cardellini, the kids, and three significant supporting roles, and it’s myself, Bobby Cannavale [Cannavale’s name is not in any cast list I’ve seen, so he may have an uncredited part], and the comedian Hannibal Buress. We’re the three supporting characters, and then there’s a smattering of other characters, but there are really only three significant supporting roles and it’s us three, and we’re all given some great moments. It was a really fun movie to make.
Capone: And then you’re starring in this new HBO series.
THC: “Divorce.” Yeah, it got picked up. We start in the fall. We already shot the pilot. We shoot the rest of the show. It’s Sarah Jessica Parker, then me, and Molly Shannon. It really is an ensemble piece, but it’s called “Divorce,” and Sarah Jessica and I are married. Talia Balsam is in it, and so is the great Tracy Letts, he’s in the pilot and is fantastic in it. And Jemaine Clement from “Flights of the Conchords.” He’s awesome in it.
Capone: I saw Jesse Peretz directed the pilot?
THC: He directed the pilot.
Capone: He’s one of my favorite TV directors. So is it comedic, or is it dead serious?
THC: I would say it’s serio-comic, because I hate the word dramedy [laughs].
Capone: Well, good luck with this. Thank you very much. Great to talk to you.
