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X-MEN 2 headed into the toilet' It's getting scary!

All I gotta say is... by Chris Knight TFN	May 21st, 2001 06:59:36 PM
Velma is HOT!! Rowwr!
shave mah poodle sug!!!!!!!!!!!! by DigitalJustice	May 21st, 2001 07:00:47 PM

X-Men are gay? by JT_Ripper	May 21st, 2001 07:01:34 PM
Is that what you're saying Harry? Cuz if you are, I'm giving you such a pinch!!
First! by BTWR	May 21st, 2001 07:02:31 PM
First time First! Give it time, it'll be ok... they'll correct the errors. Wow... remember how obsessed the fans were with black suit for Wolverine? They'll shit a brick or twenty now!
Oh well by BTWR	May 21st, 2001 07:02:55 PM
maybe next year...
First? Doesn't matter.... by Ash of the AMF	May 21st, 2001 07:03:04 PM
Plain and simple: Sentinels are robots, not humans. Don't go changing shit for no reason. Just stick to the basics and you'll do fine.
Martin Short as Wolverine! Ahahahahaha!!! by 6 of 24	May 21st, 2001 07:03:30 PM
Well this news sucks! There's no way they're going to get a good script that way! God knows Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart can do a lot to salvage a bad script, but they can't work miracles with no help from behind the camera. Aaaaaaannnndddd - FIRST!
I don't think FOX is that stupid... by AtomoPrime	May 21st, 2001 07:07:26 PM
...They know that they would make MILLIONS off a new toy line and that giant robots would sale big...no pun intended. Plus, they know those big bots would help sale the movie to fans and non-fans alike. No matter what movie an audience just saw, all they would be talking about afterwards would be the X-MEN 2 preview..."WOW! Did you see that big ass robot! That was awsome! Ect...." I have faith that FOX and Singer will continue to keep this franchise from going the way of BATMAN and SUPERMAN.
Have faith... by Ghibli-San	May 21st, 2001 07:09:17 PM
With Tom DeSanto, David Hayter, and Brian Singer at the helm, I don't think there's much to be worried about
"...would be like giving Rogue a dick that could cut through Ado by Nada Lives	May 21st, 2001 07:12:59 PM
Wow, I can't believe Roeper got the job over Harry. (sarcasm mode turned off).
If they can make dinosaurs, why not a HUGE F*CKING ROBOT??? by Darth Pixel	May 21st, 2001 07:15:42 PM
I am sure they have the cash to do it, all they need now is the balls. Give me $85,000,000 and I will build you the most kick ass Lego Villian you have ever f*cking seen! Big as shit, I tell you.
A Roger Corman version of X-Mem? That might actually be cool Ha by ARCTURUS	May 21st, 2001 07:15:46 PM
Heck, we never got the comic-book faithful, definitive version of the X-Men the last time around, in my opinion. So, the producers of X-Men 2 might as well go ball-out crazy and create the closest thing to watching an Austin Powers movie while strung out on Crack: Roger Corman's X-Men! Think of the possibilities! Mind-numbing (literally) special effects, most likely recycled old Battlestar Gallactica space-battle footage, spliced in with a few scenes of Barney rejects in purple dinosaur suits! And that's just for starters!
Not gonna happen. They'll be robots. I have faith. BTW: Not by SilentBob X	May 21st, 2001 07:21:32 PM
Seriously, the Sentinels have to be robots so the X-Men can cut loose on them. Makes sense that way and no other. Way I figure it, they'll probably put 1-3 in the movie so the budget won't go overboard. Making them human won't happen, IMO. Snoogans.
"For when the metal ones decide to come for you...and they will. by Studio Lackey	May 21st, 2001 07:22:12 PM
I don't want to piss off any X-Men fans here, but do you realize how fucking stupid the Sentinels would look on film if they were presented exactly as they are in the comics? I think the first X-Men movie quite competently demonstrated the fact that the literal translation is not always the most effective, and I think the same concept applies here. Those who grew up with the comics may well see nothing kooky about the idea of gigantic multicolored robots flying through space, but the other 90% of moviegoers whose ticket dollars will ensure (or doom) the future of the X-Men franchise would most likely laugh their asses off at such a sight.
Ho-Hum, no Lego Villians this time.... by Darth Pixel	May 21st, 2001 07:27:42 PM
But, as long as Gambit is included you can consider me "Front row and smiling". I want his jacket, and I WANT IT NOW!!!! All the local girls would cream as I walk down the street in my badass coat! I want that jacket!!!
Sentinels? Come on. by spyridon	May 21st, 2001 07:30:34 PM
They were kinda cool in the comic book, but only in a comic-booky way. Giant robots hunting mutants? Come on, it doesn't make any sense. The first film worked because Singer approached it from a relatively realistic standpoint. Given some basic comic booky premises, that film was essentially logical. But giant robots hunting mutants was never close to logical. The X-Men have a slew of fun, interesting villains who would look great on screen. I can't believe they're being passed over for Sentinels.
Odd...I was just talking to a friend the other day about how Sen by Acid_Rain327	May 21st, 2001 07:31:55 PM
...when the suggestion of using human soldiers came up. I agree that it'd be a huge break of tradition, and people (especially the hard core fans) would revolt. But, honestly, how could 75 foot robots translate into a film that's supposed to portray a hypothetical, near future on real world terms, and still maintain the feel of it's predecessor? And besides that, one aspect that made the first film so great was the humanity in the fight of both the X-Men and the Brotherhood; pitting the characters against robots would sacrafice emotional and intellectual struggle, for pretty-looking action scenes. And unless they could come up with something really clever, the Legacy Virus is a dead end too. Off the top of my head, I think the best route would be to draw into the (Dark) Phoenix Saga. The seeming lack of effects on Mutants from Magneto's machine would be the perfect opening: said unforseen effects could play on Jean Grey's still-developing mutant gifts, and change her into the Phoenix, and so on...
I will defend Alien 3 and Lethal Weapon 4 to the death! by GravyAkira	May 21st, 2001 07:32:06 PM
I love both those films. I still dont see how people complain about LW4. It was the perfect summer blockbuster.
I by Gustavo Cerati	May 21st, 2001 07:33:12 PM
...you said it yourself..the first scripts for the first X-Men were awful....but the LAST script...you know...the one they picked? It was good. It was good even though Singer had to finish the film SIX MONTHS earlier than expected. I think anything they do is alright just as long as no over the top shit is in the movie...like the Dark Phoenix saga...X-men in space???...CRAP...or like the Sentinels...giant robots chasing the X-men??? Fuck that! The legacy virus is a good idea...I just hope they find a way to force Magneto to team up with the X-Men...
is that Robert Duncan McNeil??!! by LOIE3107	May 21st, 2001 07:34:16 PM
Shaggy, in the Not Sentinels, is that Mr. McNeil aka Tom Paris of Star Trek Voyager??? lol.. thats a keeper...
Sentinels of a Woman by Village Idiot	May 21st, 2001 07:35:14 PM
As someone who was very disappointed with the first X-Men movie, I would rather not see things sink any lower. Too many writers, too many studio execs, too many non-comic book fans: too many cooks are spoiling the broth. Oh well, just remember, at least there'll always be the comic books themselves.
i can't believe everyone is shocked by this by buffylover	May 21st, 2001 07:35:32 PM
oh come one people, did any of you guys actually believe fox would give singer and co. the money to make an army of giant sentinal robots? no. and i'll tell you why. as much money as xmen made, i think people started to expect ALOT more after its' opening weekend. you see for hollywood(and i'm sure fox too) the idea of giving xmen2 a GIGANTIC budget went out the window when xmen got beat at the boxoffice by what lies beneath the very next weekend. hell, xmen lost like half it's audience that week. it opened with like 54 million and the next week it was already down to 22 ! fox saw that and said,"well xmen2 will make money, and yeah we'll give it a bigger budget but let's be realistic. for the most part, supehero sequels never make quite as much as the first one. why risk losing milllions on sentinals when we can simply say they are human instead". in my opinion this isn't really the way to go. i am a long time xmen fan like many of you are and i strongly want robot sentinals as well, but what i'm trying to say is, don't hold your breath. fox doesn't care about fans that much, they care about money. i'm a gambit fan. do you think fox gives a fuck if i'm mad that gambit wasn't in the first one? NO. do you think they'll care if i get a little antsy cause(according to the rumors) he won't be in the 2nd one either? of course not! so what i'm saying is, expect fox to screw with us a little cause they JUST DON'T CARE.
Martin Short IS Wolverine!! by tbrosz	May 21st, 2001 07:35:53 PM
Hey, has everyone forgotten the original comic book Wolverine? The guy about a foot shorter than everyone else in the X-Men? I've seen Martin Short's work in a lot of different things, and I bet fifty bucks that with the right makeup and effects he could actually carry it off! A lot of people crapped themselves when they heard Michael "Beetlejuice" Keaton was going to play Batman, too. Yeah, yeah, I know Harry was just kidding, but it would still be a hoot to see Martin give it a shot. By the way, Harry, was that example of Rogue and her Dick of Steel the very first image that rolled off the front of your brain? Ewwwwwww....where is your mind at? If you had said "Colossus" it would at least have made a certain amount of sense, although still a little disturbing.
That's to bad.... by SnakeWater	May 21st, 2001 07:36:42 PM
at least LOTR wont suck.
Dear God no! Holy Sucking Flit by Sgt.WojoJoJo	May 21st, 2001 07:36:47 PM
Oh God no. This does not sound good idea with the senteniels being human. You know what keep the virus. But I say either have the sentinels are robots or don't put them at all. You know what, why not use the senteniels who are robots but about human size unfortunatly I don't know the name of them. But please FOX this idea smacks of pure idiocy. This has been a liquor fuled commentary but this NYPD Sgt.
Human Sentinels... by KOLOBOS REXX	May 21st, 2001 07:38:18 PM
Well, I sure hope this pans out untrue. The Only way human Sentinels would work would be if They did Bastion and the "bio-sentinels" from the "Zero Tolerance" storyline. They were cool, trust me... but since Bastion was a human-disguised Nimrod/Master-Mold amalgamation, and the technology employed to create them was from the future, I kinda doubt you could have nanotech Sentinels without having the big-ass robots first... it was an evolution of the technology... I wrote a nifty script-treatment involving big Sentinels, Bastion(played by Terrence Stamp!), introducing Beast and Gambit, and beginning the involvement of Cable! the Legacy Virus was worked in there as well. Was a great story, just never knew how to get it exposed.
Overreact much? by JackBurton	May 21st, 2001 07:39:55 PM
Christ, it's exactly this kind of fanboy histrionics that gives "film geeks" a bad name. I mean to go off on a mad rant about the alleged plans to combine scripts you haven't even seen with absolutely no confirmation that Singer, DeSantos or anyone else has made any firm plans to pursue this tact is frankly headline grabbing bullshit. Personally I'll wait until there are some solid and fullyformed plans on what direction things are going in before I start worrying, besides I trust Singer, DeSantos et al not to screw it up. Either show a little bit of respect and faith to the film makers involved or de-evolve fully into one of the mindless "this is going to suck" throng and just admit thats exactly what you are.
buddy comedy by DrZaius234	May 21st, 2001 07:51:46 PM
man, why couldn't the writers and FOX just progress down the given sequel set up at the end of X-MEN? wolvie wanders around canada searching for his past... back at the mansion, some stuff happens. who cares? a weapon X film would have rocked. maybe sabertooth could have gotten some actual dialogue (instead of that same ole Batman & Robin/Bane treatment). if they wanted to go nuts, i've got a freakin' hilarious script with wolverine wondering around with deadpool...very buddy comedy. hey, great, sentinels as humans. i've already seen BLADE RUNNER. the book was better. how ironic.
They know what they are doing. by Darth Pixel	May 21st, 2001 07:53:20 PM
We can't see it now, because it hasn't even been made yet. But,when the final product hits the screens... Opening Weekend, 10,000 theatres, the smell of buttered popcorn. We will love it. I, for one, have faith in them. I really think they can pull it off.
As for Gambit's Coat.... by Darth Pixel	May 21st, 2001 07:56:25 PM
I am going to surf on over to eBay and see what I can find. I always wanted one just like Gambit. Wish me luck.
Don't forget who's Directing by littlenemo	May 21st, 2001 07:57:25 PM
I believe Brian Singer has enough brain cells in his head to recognise CRAP if he sees it. Don't forget Richard Donner hired someone to re-write Superman. And who's willing to disagree with me that it's waaay to early to get paranoid about a script that I'm sure Fox knows would lose the core audience of X-Men 2. The geeks like myself who grew up reading the comic.
is that Sarah Michelle Gellar!?!?!?!?! by Bluntman420	May 21st, 2001 07:58:32 PM
HOLY SHIIITIIITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!! damn is she hawt!!!! oh yeah...snooch to the nooch...nawng...
Actually... by PhonicsMonkey	May 21st, 2001 07:59:29 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a recent storyline weren't the new sentinels humans that had been operated/experimented on? I don't feel like dragging out any back issues but I seem to remember that they were people with disabilities who went to this place for a miracle cure. The only downside was that they were secretly implanted with sentinel robotics that could be activated against their will and made them the most dangerous sentinels to date. I also remember the x-men (especially Wolverine) being extremely careful when dealing with them because they new in actuality they were just innocent people. So to me it seems to create a better story when their human side compels the x-men to deal with the new (and most advanced) sentinels in a way that doesn't involve just ripping into them. I think that would show more character development, although ripping apart giant killer robots using unbridled mutant powers is also pretty damn cool. Either way I think it could work. Oh yeah, I also want to see Colossus. And it better not be anything like that cheesy American Gladiator (or whatever he was) guy who had that clip on this site a while back. I apologize if that brings back any bad memories you were trying to forget.
x-men vs giagantor by heavy_voodoo	May 21st, 2001 08:04:34 PM
what the bloody fuck. Harry i love ya but you bought some bad crack over in france. The regular comic book sentinals would never work in the movie. As a former reader of the comic (it's been shit for the past few years.) i think i can say even most comic fans would agree with me on this. (if you don't meet me behind the woodshed after i finish.) There is no way the x-men are taking down two of those things back to back. better yet hold their own against an army of thirty. why the sentinals are friggin huge, and packing more firepower than you average militia. (by the way figuring the average fighter plane costs around $25 -30 million to make. and the sentinals are atleast as sophistocated as an F-18. Wouldn't the goverment go broke making several hundred of these things to combat the mutants?) What singer tried to do with the movie was make these totally unbelieveable characters real. He wanted them to be people we could pass by on the street without noticing. And to his credit he did it very well. Now you want to take that believe-ability and throw it away in favor of some cool CGI. fuck that go see Star Wars, honestly i expected better from you. The last guy who did that was joel schumacker, and it's the reason he still lives in fear. To keep the series real, and still add the sentinals i can come up with only two comprimises 1) make the sentinals between seven to ten feet tall, and keep their armaments realistic. 2) make them human, bah you say those agents of sheild are pretty bad ass, and ...ohh wait...yup their human. What ever the outcome may be i have faith that since bryan singer's name is stamped on this movie it will kick ass. I'm stealing part of this line so i apologize to it's creator in advance. All mis-spells sponsored by my binge drinking
Prime Sentinels by thedragoon	May 21st, 2001 08:05:27 PM
When you say "Human Sentinels" are you talking about the Prime Sentinels from the Zero Tolerance Story Arc? If so, its not such a bad idea. Remember, X-Men worked because Singer crafted a world that was realistic. The best example is the use of black costumes instead of blue and yellow spandex. There are tons of other examples, but that one best shows that what works in a comic doesnt always work on the big screen. Giant Robots wouldnt really work in this world. They would look pretty hokey and B-movieish. However, a Prime Sentinel, which is a human which basicly turns into a Sentinel when near a mutant (think borg nanoprobes turning a human into a sentenel in a matter of mintues,killing the person but creating a killing machine), would work pretty well.
x-men vs giagantor by heavy_voodoo	May 21st, 2001 08:06:23 PM
what the bloody fuck. Harry i love ya but you bought some bad crack over in france. The regular comic book sentinals would never work in the movie. As a former reader of the comic (it's been shit for the past few years.) i think i can say even most comic fans would agree with me on this. (if you don't meet me behind the woodshed after i finish.) There is no way the x-men are taking down two of those things back to back. better yet hold their own against an army of thirty. why the sentinals are friggin huge, and packing more firepower than you average militia. (by the way figuring the average fighter plane costs around $25 -30 million to make. and the sentinals are atleast as sophistocated as an F-18. Wouldn't the goverment go broke making several hundred of these things to combat the mutants?) What singer tried to do with the movie was make these totally unbelieveable characters real. He wanted them to be people we could pass by on the street without noticing. And to his credit he did it very well. Now you want to take that believe-ability and throw it away in favor of some cool CGI. fuck that go see Star Wars, honestly i expected better from you. The last guy who did that was joel schumacker, and it's the reason he still lives in fear. To keep the series real, and still add the sentinals i can come up with only two comprimises 1) make the sentinals between seven to ten feet tall, and keep their armaments realistic. 2) make them human, bah you say those agents of sheild are pretty bad ass, and ...ohh wait...yup their human. What ever the outcome may be i have faith that since bryan singer's name is stamped on this movie it will kick ass. I'm stealing part of this line so i apologize to it's creator in advance. All mis-spells sponsored by my binge drinking
pfft. by BEARison Ford	May 21st, 2001 08:10:08 PM
jesus christ. i saw the headline and kept reading the article for the big revelation, fuck is harry overreacting. he needs to start getting a hard-on about something else other than movies. giant robotic sentinels sound great and everything, but i don't think their introduction is acceptable in the first sequel... maybe the second one. human sentinels first, robot ones second and thats fine with me (and a logical progression). even if they didnt and kept with human... fuck i could care less as long as theres a good strong script and some great actors to go along with it.
Sweet Jeebus, don't screw this movie up!!!!! by All-ighty Ollar	May 21st, 2001 08:12:58 PM
I, for one, enjoyed the X-Men cartoon and the episodes where they fought the sentinels and mastermold. The phoenix saga was kind of odd, though. Personally, combining those two scrips is just ludicrous(Mike Tyson voice). Go with one or the other. And, if they go with the sentinels, they should keep it as close to the comics as possible. Maybe human-sized sentinels would be all right if they had a low budget.
casting rumors? by BEARison Ford	May 21st, 2001 08:18:32 PM
by the way, where the fuck are these supposed casting rumours on 4filmmakers.com? i just registered at that place so i could check it out and didnt even find an entry for x-men, someone enlighten me/us and tell us what it said
Just Kill That Fucking Cyclops And I'll Be Happy by O'Brien	May 21st, 2001 08:24:48 PM
How about a compromise: just ONE big sentinel that all the mutants can team up on. It'll be like Godzilla with superheroes. Yeah! I'm being facetious. I think the ideal X-Men storyline would be something involving Mr. Sinister, the Marauders (w/Sabretooth), tons of dead mutants, and Magneto as Anti-Hero saving the day. I'm sure if I ask nicely I'll see that movie someday, too. Oh, whatever. I'm still pissed off from the first time around that I didn't get Christopher Walken, Michael Madsen, and Richard O'Brien as Magneto, Wolvie, and the Prof. Maybe in the Corman-helmed spinoff. Just as long as I don't have to look at any more Cyclops and Marvel Girl than absolutely necessary and I'll live. Also maybe the role of Storm could be recast with... ANYONE. ANYONE other than Halle Berry. And no Colossus. Please Fox no Colossus. And Kitty Pryde in scanty lingerie. And her own subplot.
i'm a moron/more sentinel thoughts by BEARison Ford	May 21st, 2001 08:27:44 PM
nevermind, found the "x men 2" entry... i assume Scott Caan would be Gambit and Anthony Hopkins would voice Beast. i'm kinda rooting for someone like Jonathan Schaech to be Gambit (which gets into the fact that i don't even think Gambit should be in the series until X-Men 3 bur whatever)... but anyway, but to the Sentinels... i came back to the page to check for new talkbacks and saw that picture of the Sentinels flying through the city with their lights flashing wherever.... now can you HONESTLY say you think that could happen ANYTIME relatively soon in the X-Men universe portrayed in the first film? let's recap: GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS 3 STORIES TALL FLYING THROUGH THE SKY. man i'm almost beginning to wish they DO make the sentinels human. i'd much rather prefer robot Sentinels to be present in a Days of the Future Past type scenario (which in itself would be a ridiculous entry into the series. time travel = hokey)
It's not THAT bad... by Dark Squirrel	May 21st, 2001 08:45:44 PM
I'm not so worried about human Sentinels as long as their treated right. If they add Bastion into the mix that could be kinda cool. The thing I'm worried about is how they're gonna handle the Legacy Virus. Hey Harry, was it mentioned in the script how the virus was started? Did they go the generic "created by the government" route? That could lead to utter shit. They should at least mention Stryfe (Cable's clone, who actually created the virus) and a cameo by Cable could fit in as well. I remember being horrified by all the news on the last movie, but it turned out to be okay in the end... here's hoping this one will do the same.
an idea for sentinels by yneway	May 21st, 2001 08:46:16 PM
I think something along the lines of the loaders(think thats what they're called) from Aliens would be cool. Perhaps a little more armored and certainly unable to fly. They'd be more or less like artillary accompanied by armed troops and armed helicopters. Not a big fan of the legacy virus idea. It'd be interesting to play around with. Maybe the x-men doing a little espionage around whereever the sentinels are manufactured, then its seen as like a work in progress. Or maybe just a rumor among the mutant community.
Ah, you're right. Giant robot sentinels won't work. by Village Idiot	May 21st, 2001 08:47:48 PM
Let's face it: it is impossible to mount a credible and entertaining adaptation of a comic book story that faithfully adheres to the source material. In order for it to work, you must SUCK OUT AS MANY OF THE FANTASTIC ELEMENTS as you can until you end up with a watered-down yet palatable for the mainstream/studio exec/and strangely revisionist talkbacker audience product. IN FACT, I think that the next version of The Incredible Hulk should be a tv show just like The Fugitive, where David Banner is a travelling drifter that touches every life he meets.
Here we go again by vigilante1le	May 21st, 2001 08:51:48 PM
God damnit people, didn't we learn from the last time we bitched and moaned about the process of the X-men film? It turned out to be of the greatest films and comic book translations of all times. Stop fuckin sweatin this ish, and let the guys do the film first. After you see it, then call it a piece of ish. Until then shut the hell up and let them work.
human sentinels? by sokitome	May 21st, 2001 08:55:19 PM
to think human sentinels would be good is crap. the legacy virus is crap. All these recent additions ot the xmen story line ( i mean in the mid nineties) is all crap which is why the xmen comics are going downhill. Kirby envisioned giant robots and that was FUCKING COOL. To make them human with superabilites of fucking robotic implants are GAY...isn't that basically making them against mutants again..mutants are just superpowered humans who were born with their abilites. Robotic sentinels represent a machine that is the government. They're souless killers that represent a souless government bent on judging mutants superficially. It's a fucking METAPHOR people. To make sentinels humans is just plain WRONG! and introducing the legacy virus now is just plain stupid.
In fact, I think X-Men would work best if they didn't have any p by Village Idiot	May 21st, 2001 08:56:02 PM
Let's face it, the idea of "mutants" is just plain silly. I think that the tone set in the first movie demands that the characters should somehow lose their powers for good, and just fight hand to hand. That would be cool.
Boycott human Sentinels in X_MEN 2 by Mike K	May 21st, 2001 09:04:35 PM
If X-MEN 2 is made as described above, Fox will destroy yet another franchise, costing their shareholders countless millions, and crushing us fans. Why are Bryan Singer and Tom DeSanto letting the script go in this terrible direction? We need to let Fox know that if they are not faithful to the Sentinel comic-book story-line that we will not see the film or buy the special edition DVD. Poor decisions cannot be rewarded. Dosen't Fox have respect for the X-MEN comic-book story-lines or us fans? Judging by the scripts described above, the answer is NO!
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah by BEARison Ford	May 21st, 2001 09:09:41 PM
if x-men 2 is made with human sentinels fox will be destroying a franchise? how could you even venture to BEGIN that thought process? this movie isnt about fucking ROBOT SENTINELS ok?
Fox, I hope this isn't true. by WesReviews	May 21st, 2001 09:11:25 PM
Well, mark this film off my list for next year. Oh well.
Bug on X-Men Part Deux by Ambush Bug	May 21st, 2001 09:13:55 PM
Bug here and I can't disagree more with Harry. The cool thing about the first film is that it was set in the real world and treated with some sense of realism. Set in the near futre, I think Singer did a great job of keeping all of the high tech to a minimum, while showcasing some mutants with cool powers. The audience could suspend their disbelief enough to accept that humans could be born with a special gene that allowed them to have powers. This was a biological explanation. Although fantastic, it gave an explantation and the audience could go with it. I have followed and loved the X-Men comics through good stories and bad, but I know there are elements and stories that just shouldn't be made into films. For example, the space adventures of our merry band of mutants are classic, but with Patrick Stewart at the helm, any filmmaker with half a brain would steer clear of a space story for fear of Star Trek comparisons. That means no Shi'ar. No Brood. No planet destroying Phoenix Force. No Mojoverse. Sure these stories are cool, but they stray away from the core theme of the X-Men. Prejudice. As long as that theme is present, I don't care what size the Sentinels are. By the way, I bet when they said human Sentinels, they meant human sized Sentinels. Human sized robots are a little more believable and less cheesey than giant tin can men in purple helmets. One could believe that in a universe where machines like cerebro and ruby quartz lenses have been developed, artificial humans with Cerebro-like technology could be developed as well. Especially if the rumor that the Beast, maker of the Cerebro machine (in the sequel's script, not the comic, I know, continuity buffs), is captured by the government in the sequel. Giant men crashing through cities and blasting mutants is just not the type of realism that was established in the first film. They have even shyed away from the giant Sentinels in the comics in recent years in favor of less conspicuous man sized ones. Harry, you're wrong on this one. Giant Sentinels would be no better than Wild Wild West's giant spider. Hokey and unreal and stupid. Moving on. Going with the Legacy Virus storyline is a ballsy move. Heavy subject and definately a strong backdrop to build a story, but I think its a little early in the series to be handling that one. Stories like The Mutant Massacre/Morlocks storyline or the Hellfire Club/Phoenix storyline would be a step up in scope for the sequel, while developing characters and telling meaningful stories. Singer seems to want to touch on the prejudice themes. How about mutants doing the humans job for them by killing each other because of the way they look or live, a theme from the Mutant Massacre storyline. Or the class issues raised by skirmishes with that uppity group, the Hellfire CLub. Sure, the Legacy storyline mirrors a giant problem of today, but the universe of mutants hasn't been established enough yet. Fill it with mutants before you start killing them off Singer. By the way, I agree with Harry that the Too Many Cooks Writing Method that has become popular in recent years is sick, disgusting, and sad. It takes all that is clean and pure inwriting and wipes its ass with it. This method worked in the first film only because the producers had a heavy hand in it. Lets hope this doesn't happen again. Sentinels and Legacy Viruses, just too much for one movie. If they cram too much into the sequel, we will have another Batman and Robin on our hands, especially if they really are going to intro Beast, Gambit, and Nightcrawler. For your reading pleasure, I think I may dust off my Mutant Massacre idea from about a year ago and tell youse all how the sequel should really be put together. Just a warning. Bug out.
There are only 2 possible Gambits by JB1414	May 21st, 2001 09:15:43 PM
They should do McConaughey or Harry Connick. But what will end up happening is they will cast Titus or someone from the Dodgers. And then the fat guy from Mad TV(you know Horatio Sanz "lite"(you know Chris Farley "lite"))will be Beast.
All I have to say is this.... by julsnice	May 21st, 2001 09:17:44 PM
Sorry i'm too tired to read all the posts but I think Harry (or someone on some site) said it best before: It would be hard to care for dying mutants that we hardly had enough time to get to know in the first place. The first movie didn't introduce enough mutants for us to even care about some legacy Virus, heck....it didn't even introduce the whole concept of mutants all that well for us to care. The only reason the virus did good in the comics is because of of all the history there and seeing mutants we got to know fall victim, and it didn't do all that great in the first place. God, if only I was a billionaire I would just make the perfect movies.
What's wrong with Martin Short as Wolverine? by Twig	May 21st, 2001 09:21:07 PM
I could see Ed Grimley with claws, I must say! Now, as for Rogue having a dick...
Keep the robot sentinals for FUCK'S sake! by Wooksie	May 21st, 2001 09:21:28 PM
I never read the comics, but I loved watching the cartoon growing up. As soon as the cartoon storylines started to move away from the sentinals, the show went downhill. Futhermore, the Phoenix Saga was the worst thing to happen to the cartoon. If they don't keep the big robotic sentinals, I won't watch the movie.
X-Men fans by muvynupe	May 21st, 2001 09:36:06 PM
Why is it that all these SUPER fans of the X-Men missed out on the HUGE yearlong plot thread featuring the cyberized half-human Prime Sentinels??? The only decent robot Sentinel was Master Mold and that was mostly because of his implacable co-opting of other technology to rebuild himself. Do any of the robot fans remember that these big, dumb machines couldn't detect that Larry Trask was a mutant because of a funky 70s NECKLACE? Nimrod (the Sentinel from the future) was cool because he was conflicted with his burgeoning "humanity." Master Mold was cool because he was somewhat autonomous and dead set on fulfilling "his" mission. The fleet of Sentinels suck because even though they are a) HUGE b) possesed of superior weapons systems and c) apparently limitless in number, they can never defeat SIX LITTLE MUTANTS! I'm not saying the Sentinels are ideal (I'd like to see the Hellfire Club, thank you very MUCH) but at least it opens the door to the type of plot twist that the new Thunderbird experienced. Unbeknowst to either of them, his girlfriend had been Sentinelized and started to transform once he manifested his mutant power signature. I imagine that's the type of pathos Singer is looking for with the Primes. BTW, don't bother coming at me with the rabid fanboy drama, kids. I can more than defend myself in a conversation about X-Men continuity.
What The Fuck? by KnyghtAlmighty	May 21st, 2001 09:36:11 PM
ok humans as sentinels.does the person writing that shit realize that if he does make the sentinels to be humans in X2,he'll be fucking up damn near 40 years of X-Men mythos? i mean jesus tap-dancing christ man! oh and another thing if the anthony hopkins rumor turns out to be true (highly unlikely)am I the only one who would like to see him as Beast?
What The Fuck? by KnyghtAlmighty	May 21st, 2001 09:38:08 PM
ok humans as sentinels.does the person writing that shit realize that if he does make the sentinels to be humans in X2,he'll be fucking up damn near 40 years of X-Men mythos? i mean jesus tap-dancing christ man! oh and another thing if the anthony hopkins rumor turns out to be true (highly unlikely)am I the only one who would like to see him as Beast?
What The Fuck? by KnyghtAlmighty	May 21st, 2001 09:38:40 PM
ok humans as sentinels.does the person writing that shit realize that if he does make the sentinels to be humans in X2,he'll be fucking up damn near 40 years of X-Men mythos? i mean jesus tap-dancing christ man! oh and another thing if the anthony hopkins rumor turns out to be true (highly unlikely)am I the only one who would like to see him as Beast?
http://www.no-organic-sentinels. com !!!!!!!!!!! by human2	May 21st, 2001 09:40:33 PM
http://www.no-organic-sentinel s.com !!!! WE HAVE A PETITION ONLINE THAT WE WILL SEND TO MARVEL SO THEY DON'T RUIN THE X-MEN BECAUSE SENTINELS MUST NOT BE ORGANIC!@# !@$#@$!@! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! 1 ! !!
In the comics there was a version of the Sentinels that were hum by superninja	May 21st, 2001 09:42:33 PM
Big, giant Sentinels are cool if you want a movie filled with CGI. The government turning volunteers into mutant hunters with cybernetic enhancements is just fine with me if they wanted to keep it grounded in reality (uh...like the first movie, Harry?). Just imagine Terminators after the mutants. I would be annoyed if they made a big, GIANT Sentinel at the end, but if they establish some basis in reality, I don't have a problem with that.
Chris Claremont, Stan Lee, John Byrne by Mr Nevin	May 21st, 2001 09:44:52 PM
Hello??? This is a Marvel film. Why can't they get Marvel writers to help contribute to the script? Why can't they shell out big bucks to have Mr. Claremont come up with a good Sentinel story, like "Days of Future Past"? Who the hell is David Hayter? Has anyone checked his credits on IMDB? Why the hell is he involved with this thing? God, I should be a movie executive...btw, this is off topic, but if I were in charge of Paramount, Brannon Braga and Rick Berman would be fired so fast they would not know what hit them....
Think about this for a plot-twist... by superninja	May 21st, 2001 09:48:05 PM
Jean Grey gets "sentinelized" and it taps into the "Dark Phoenix" powers? She turns on all of the X-Men and roasts them, leading up to a sequel. Hey, to those of you who don't like condensed X-Men history...DID YOU WATCH THE FIRST MOVIE??!!!
it doesnt mention anywhere about the afforementioned human senti by KnyghtAlmighty	May 21st, 2001 09:48:36 PM

God, that scooby doo picture is nasty by Solaris	May 21st, 2001 09:50:16 PM
It does sound like x-men 2 is getting scoobied, if that's what you're trying to imply Harry. I thought that X-men was well made, but didn't really go anywhere, and it didn't do anything to make me care about any of the characters. Watching it was sort of like going to a Chinese restaurant and still feeling hungry when I left. That said, it was faithful to the spirit of the comic. These latest developments suggest a march straight towards the sewer. In lieu of all the big movies coming out in the next two years, it's clear to me that fox should shelve any x-men project for the next few years at least. The don't know what they're doing, and they will run a moderately promising franchise into the ground, not to mention lose tens of millions, if they maintain their present project.
The Legacy Virus was a cool concept... by superninja	May 21st, 2001 09:53:34 PM
It was just delivered poorly in the comics. What makes you think the filmmakers won't try to do something different with the storyline? They already proved with the first film that they're not following any continuity rules. Again...WORRY ABOUT THE SCRIPT, NOT THE CONCEPTS!!!
And just for logic's sake... by superninja	May 21st, 2001 10:01:25 PM
I mean, we're talking about rumors here, but anyway: What if Beast creates the virus by accident (I've also heard rumors about him being a gov't captive in the sequal), or them introducing Sinister pulling the gov't strings (Stryfe is too convoluted if they try to introduce Cable and his clone in the 2nd film). Sinister was a popular figure in the cartoon, and in the comics. AND...he's capable of doing something like creating the Legacy Virus. All to his own ends, of course. I actually thought it might be a cool idea to have Sinister trigger the "Dark Phoenix" entity in Jean (which will not be a cosmic entity in this series). "Dark Phoenix" in the X-Men film scope is about her tapping her unused potential. They dropped hints of this in the first film.
Human Sentinels? You mean...Terminators? by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 10:03:25 PM
'Cause I guarantee that's the first thing audiences will think of when they see humanoid robot killers. That's an argument that stands whether you're a fan of the comic or not. Now if the implication is that these new Sentinels are wholly human, and not robotic in any way, then the concept is more fantastically lame than I've given it credit for. The X-Men versus mean humans with guns? Whoop-de-fuckin'-doo. Gimme a little FANTASY with my superheroes please. If you don't get the concept that superheroes are larger-than-life, then you must be reading Village Idiot's posts and not getting the sarcasm. See, the size of the Sentinels is the main goddamn reason they're so cool! It's a great, menacing visual that instantly establishes the heroes as the underdogs. As to why they would logically be so large...man, they're dealing with mutants who have the power to blow shit up in a big way! Their bulk is their defense! Cyclops might blast a human-scale robot to pieces with one shot, but with a Sentinel, he may only shear off an arm, or punch a hole in it. And it'll still survive, and it'll kill his mutie ass! See, y'gotta think like a Sentinel, people. Don't like the purple color scheme? Ehh, they can change the look a bit and I won't gripe. Think it's unreasonable to have so many Sentinels and have them scrapped so easily? Maybe. I think the film should present the idea that there are only a few dozen operating worldwide and just make them scarier individually. Sentinels numbering in the hundreds is gonna be too much of a stretch for live action, but not several dozen. As for questions of how a Sentinel project would be affordable in the "real world"? Please. We've got hundreds and hundreds of multi-million dollar jet fighters, helicoptors, and aircraft carriers. I have no problem envisioning the government creating a few dozen multi-million dollar robots if they might stave off...the deadly mutant menace! Listen, my friends, the human element of the first film need not be forgotten just because the action is gonna get amped. Now that the characters have been established, there's plenty to do with 'em in between Sentinel throwdowns. Character realism is important, but beyond that, realism can take a goddamn hike in my opinion. I loved the first X-flick, but it did need stronger action sequences...action worthy of its comic book tradition. You superhero fans want the "Matrix" sequels to outdo real superhero films when it comes to mind-blowing action? 'Cause that's damn well what's gonna happen if the producers of "X-Men 2" insist that everything be as low-key as the first one. Ambush Bug, no offense ol' buddy, but your notion that the giant-size Sentinels would with certainty be "hokey and unreal and stupid" is just close-minded thinking. You're immediately assuming worst-case scenario stuff. I bet some people told George Lucas that the giant AT-AT Walkers would look silly in "Empire Strikes Back", but ILM shut those doubters up. It's 20 years after "Empire", and something is very definitely wrong if our f/x boys can't match the visual menace of Imperial Walkers. Giant Sentinels or bust, I say.
Man, I Was Lookin' Forward To Robotic Sentinals. . . by Cowblaster	May 21st, 2001 10:10:38 PM
I mean, they wouldn't even have to be 20 feet tall! What if they were, like, only 9 feet tall? That wouldn't be so bad, would it? If the Sentinals are HUMAN, does that mean they're just guys who volunteered to kill mutants, or are they like the Prime Sentinals? If they're just guys with guns, why not just go with the "Friends of Humanity" angle instead of bastardizing Sentinals? Besides, if you're looking for "realism," I'd pick big-ass robots over humans who turn into robots anyday. Honestly, which is more believable there?
TO FOX by halconmilenario	May 21st, 2001 10:11:02 PM
Ok. I understand that having twenty giant robots on screen is scary budget-wise. Ok. Dump the Sentinels. BUT DON'T DO THE MOVIE UNTIL YOU HAVE A GOOD SCRIPT. There is no rush, we will happily wait another year for a GOOD STORY. I'm not going to give any because BRIAN SINGER KNOWS BETTER. We will wait. I promise.
And ironically, I like the Scooby-Doo picture. by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 10:11:45 PM
Have little to no interest in the movie, but as a stand-alone photo of cartoon characters brought to life, that's a pretty smoove picture. Everyone looks dead-on, and Velma is inexplicably cute.
Not the end of the world by Jack Lint	May 21st, 2001 10:13:16 PM
My take on this is that maybe they will use killcrazy marines in some sort of armor, perhaps using some of Tony Stark's high tech gizmos. These suits could be custom made to combat each of our mutant heroes, like some reflective shell to counter Cyclops' blasts on one suit and another with heavy duty grounding to counter Storm's lightning etc. The X men could be tricked into individually designed ambushes in order to capture them all. And in the end Wolverine breaks Magneto out to go save the team. Big fight vs the rest of the brotherhood of muties and the government guys. Lots of teamwork in the final fight, perhaps using some moves hinted at in a danger room scene at the start of the movie. See, anything can still happen with X2. Too early to call it. Jack Lint, Information Retrieval
I've never read a comic book in my life by death_stick	May 21st, 2001 10:14:12 PM
This discussion is fodder for the brain.
Jesus H., Harry, is it too much to ask for Talkbacks that go in by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 10:23:08 PM
You know, chronological order? It's that magical order that every bulletin board on the goddamn internet can somehow manage...except this one. Ain't-It-Cool-News...the most popular film gossip site in the world...and it can't figure out chronological order. Look, there's already been a couple hundred friggin' posts on this Talkback, and I'm sure there are some tech geeks among this crowd. Would one of you please volunteer to show Harry how to make these Talkbacks go in order? Please! If we're ever to yell at each other properly and without redundancy, we must have order!
Alright, Fox! For The Last Time! David Hayter Can't Write! Zak P by Buzz Maverik	May 21st, 2001 10:27:36 PM
Dr. Henry McCoy, a friend of Jean Grey's, is working in the biochemistry division of Shaw Industries. He undercovers the plans for the Sentinels, GIANT ROBOTS designed to capture mutants. He's confronted by his employer, Sebastian Shaw and Shaw's partner/lover Emma Frost. It quickly becomes clear that they're all mutants and the humanoid Beast is taken down hard. Three months later, Wolverine arrives at the Canadian base Xavier told him about. He's captured by a Sentinel-prototype and placed in a containment tube. A blue, furry Beast appears to be working with the Sentinels. He phones in a report of Wolverine's capture to Shaw at New York's Hellfire Club. We meet the Lords Cardinal, Shaw, Frost, Leland, Pierce and their new pledge Wyngarde. They are looking for a mutant to experiment on. The Beast has been experimenting on himself to protect other mutants, but it is clear that like most mutants, he's too genetically unstable. The club rejects Wolverine, Rogue, the Brotherhood for the same reason. And Magneto, Storm, Cyclops and Xavier are too powerful. But Jean Grey is just right. Wyngarde says he can control her. Meanwhile, the Beast frees Wolverine and they destroy the Sentinels together. The head out to warn the X-Men. Wyngarde unleashes Jean Grey's dark side, first turning her into the Black Queen. But it turns out that she's actually the most powerful, most unstable mutant that ever lived. She turns herself into Dark Phoenix, pretty much devastates the Hellfire Club and the Sentinels and almost wipes out the X-Men. She's such a threat that Xavier sends the X-Men to break Magneto out of prison because they need his power. Eventually, she is saved by the love of Cyclops and Wolverine. Fire the hacks! I'll do it for one million dollars, a custom Purdy shotgun, a Chevy Suburban filled with Cuban cigars (a bargain, because as Sleazy G. points out I could easily be asking for a Humvee). All you talkbackers reading this, start a letter writing, e-mail harrassment campaign against Fox. Fire the hacks! Hire Buzz Maverik!
don't fuck it up! by inthetrenches	May 21st, 2001 10:37:24 PM
singer..... keep it faithful to the comic. sentinels are GIANT robots. anything is else and you'll make a "batman and robin" disaster.
For those who think giant robots will have audiences laughing... by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 10:42:16 PM
Consider...as rank as the recent "Godzilla" CGI-fest was, Godzilla himself did not look silly at all. Had the filmmakers played it straight, as with the original 50's Godzilla, that flick coulda been quite brutal. No one was laughing at the "Jurassic Park" T-Rex either. And probably my favorite counter-example is the one I mentioned in a previous post: Imperial Walkers. Giant anthropomorphic robots. Silly in concept, not silly at all in execution. Think about that scene, of how relentless the Walkers seemed as they cut through the Rebels, and how big a victory it was to even take one down...that's how the Sentinels could be handled. Small numbers, very scary. Make them so intimidating that no mutant in their right mind would tackle one alone. It's a group effort to even bring a single Sentinel down, and only by film's end (after much experience and many a Danger Rooms training scenario), will the X-Men be effective enough as a team to handle several at once. Stop assuming that the filmmakers must follow the comics in every detail if they were to follow it in one (size). The use of giant Sentinels doesn't necessarily mean you'll see purple armor or Master Mold or Sentinels in the hundreds or any specific Sentinel storyline you're familiar with. Stop jumping to conclusions and really think before you presume the concept is "silly" or "wouldn't translate to film." Imperial Walkers, people. Case closed.
listen up fake xmen fans by andy kaufman	May 21st, 2001 10:48:33 PM
well i guess most of you havent read the comic in the last 10 years cause you would know that the new sentinals are a human hybrid. jus because you read a few issues of the comic and watched the cartoon dosnt give the right to slam the movie . alex ross which you all love said the movie made him like the xmen which hes always hated. oh well im forgetting my motto. " get over it its jus a movie".
Why Do You Guys Keep Saying Things Like "Giant Sentinels Won't W by Buzz Maverik	May 21st, 2001 10:51:10 PM
Filmmaking 101. It's called art direction. It's called character design. It's called special effects. Heard of a little thing called CGI? I'm not suggesting Tim Burton direct this by any damned means, but there's a guy who takes a cartoon image, a fucking doodle in his notebook, and brings it to life on film. This is not a student project here, guys. This is not an indie. Big time filmmaking. Fox shells out the dough, anything a good filmmaker wants to do can be done. I would say you could even make comic book style costumes that looked good, but the comics seem to have given up and made their costumes more like the movie. Nothing wrong with that, or with the movie costumes, but I still say it could be done and done well.
Both ideas could work, with half-a-brain by LongLiveTheHud	May 21st, 2001 10:54:42 PM
While I'm all a fan of a good 'ol Sentinels storyline, I just can't see them working in real life. Then again, I can't see a Legacy virus storyline working either. Hopefully, they'll see the wisom of their way... what am I saying? This is Hollywood! At least we got one good movie out of the franchise.
Hey i have a nifty idea by HeartbreakKid	May 21st, 2001 11:01:02 PM
how bout this? did anyone play the old x-men arcade from the early mid 90's? remember the common enemy? they were sentinels but the size of the x-men. they could do that it would make perfect sense. BUT then it what about senator kelly? he was the main proponent of the sentinel program, but he's dead remember. Whats mystique gonna do, promote the sentinels? they can't do the legacy virus because they haven't killed jean grey and havent introduced madalyn ( the clone of jean that had cable) and stryfe who is the clone of cable and havent introduced mr.sinister yet so theres no point. they should do sentinels the size of robocop or some shit. watch in the end it will be sentinals the size of the ones in the arcade.
Buzz, ya got my vote. by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 11:03:53 PM
Got some minor problems with the details, but I like your plot 'cause it's got all the old-school stuff I crave, and no Mr. Sinister and Stryfe B.S. to make me wretch. Sentinels, the Hellfire Club, Beast, and a team-up with Magneto...now you're talkin'! Plus, I know you've got the cajones to put the "super" back into "superheroes." The minor problems: 1)May still be too much plot for one movie. 2)Hard to imagine Beast and Wolverine alone taking out a Sentinel, especially if they're as scary as I want 'em to be! 3)Cutting off the Wolverine origin plot just seems mean. On the other hand, it follows a pattern set by the last 20 years or so of the comics ;) Otherwise, your plot rocks. I'm trying to round up the precise funds to commission a full script from ya, but so far all I've got is a cigar butt I found in the gutter and a Tonka Suburban with only three wheels. Workin' on it though!
are you making the movie ? by donner	May 21st, 2001 11:27:11 PM
Big CGI rebots = big budget and it would look really lame. The last time I saw some big CGI effects that ruined the movie it was called The Mummy Returns and I seem to rememeber a certain site loving that movie. If they're done as humans it could be kinda cool anyway I seem to remember people saying the first one would suck becasue the costumes wren't faithful to the comic-look what happened there.
Comicartist - "X-Men" has ALWAYS been a preachy soap opera! by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 11:28:11 PM
Well, at least since Claremont took over the reigns and gave Stan Lee's concept the focus it needed to take off. Yes, that's right, tolerance and acceptance of what's different has only been the central theme of the entire comic FOR ABOUT THE LAST 25 GODDAMN YEARS!!! Mutants have always been a metaphor for minorities of any sort (ethnic, religious, or sexual)! Basically, any time the heroes aren't scrapping a Sentinel or beating up the Juggernaut, they're promoting tolerance! Did this somehow escape you? Was it all just neat 'splosions and colorful costumes? Fuck, we'd be lucky if all movies were as good as the one those "faggots" McKellan and Singer made. And you'd probably have a coronary if you knew how many of your favorite films were made by gay directors or starred gay actors. What kind of numbskull assumes that every project with gay participents is gonna be about gay themes anyway? Oh yeah, the same kind of ignorant numbskull the X-Men are always fighting against. Shouldn't you be hanging out at a "Punisher" bulletin board or something? Nothin' but manly men there, by god!
I'll Ask Again, Since Some Of You May Have Missed It. . . by Cowblaster	May 21st, 2001 11:36:52 PM
. . . What's more believable? Humans who turn into robots (like the Prime Sentinals), or just plain ol' robots? You decide. And, if these human Sentinals are just guys with guns, then why aren't they just "Friends of Humanity" guys? Why do they have to fuck-up Sentinals? It's not like the Sentinals would have to be 20 feet tall. They could be 9 feet tall and STILL be cool!
The only person that can play Gambit is... by Psyberia	May 21st, 2001 11:41:52 PM
...a young James Coburn. Did any of you see The Magnificent Seven? He exudes cool! And imagine the deep grovelly voice speaking French! Now if only I can get this damn time machine working...
Donner by Dave_F	May 21st, 2001 11:42:45 PM
You're making some big assumptions about the movie yourself. Why would the Sentinels necessarily look "lame" if they were big? Done right, they could be comparable to the Imperial Walkers in "The Empire Strike Back," as I suggested in a previous post. And yes, they could conceivably look lame too, if no effort is expended on them. But why assume that? Why are you so sure? ILM made the animalistic Imperial Walkers work magnificently almost 20 years ago and you're telling me we can't do the same with big robots now? As Buzz wisely suggested in his post...use your imagination. The sequel to "The Mummy" did suck, but that was at least partially because they used f/x with no restraint. Singer's proven that he puts characterization and story first, and I see no reason to assume he'd go nuts with the f/x. As for budgetary problems, I still say you're jumping to conclusions. The Sentinels aren't going to be in every scene, and I've already suggested in a previous post that they don't have to number in the hundreds to be scary. A few dozen Sentinels worldwide would do it, and even a single one could be so tough that we only see a few matches throughout the entire film. Stop limiting the filmmakers with your knee-jerk reactions. Anything is possible.
my thoughts by booksteve	May 21st, 2001 11:46:17 PM
Sentinels might work but only if they were robots and a little bit smaller than in the comics. Legacy Virus, bad idea. As for characters Beast, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Iceman(He should be a main character this time around). Gotta go with the oldschool team members. Gambit is a bad idea because the tough, cool, sort of rebellious persona has already been done with Wolverine. If he were in the film, they could keep his power but have to make some big changes to the details of his character, kinda like they did with Rogue. And how about Apocalypse for a villain?
Alright, someone please give me a concrete reason why the Sentin by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 12:01:19 AM
A lot of folks are stating that as if it were a fact, and I'm just not seeing it. I think the traditional "bigness" of the Sentinels is a great example of the larger-than-life nature of superhero threats! Let Linda Hamilton fight the little robots, superheroes need something more. Remember, these robots are fighting powerful mutants with all kinds of unpredictable powers. Their bulk is added protection against anything a mutant might throw at them. Their vital circuitry covers a large area, so they can survive missing limbs, gaping holes, etc. Their size also means they can pack more specialty weapons to counterract specific mutant powers. And if you think big Sentinels are a budgetary problem, read my response to Donner. Now tell me again why we need shrinky-dink Sentinels when the large ones would be so much cooler? I'm a'waitin'.
Rogue with knob?... Mmm by Solar_7	May 22nd, 2001 12:02:34 AM
Mutant chicks with dicks>>> yeah. You think her girly penis pubes would have a white streak as well?...
Ok everyone hold up a sec by Lightwave7871	May 22nd, 2001 12:07:12 AM
Harry said himself that he had a script for the orginal film that had wolverine sowing dolls.... and now he has a script with human sentinels.... ok now lets all calm down and look at that statement.... Crap script handed to well viewed website watch the fanboys go boom, and laugh about it in the board room over coffee and bagels.... Guys this whole thread and story is IMHO totally pointless... If I was a studio exec and Harry / all the AICN guys kept pissing on my films up until the day they show up, I'd create a shit script and leak it just to wind you up! So take a breath and like I said look at the statement at the top of my post again..... Or you can keep on and on and on about something that isn't even cast, the sets aint built, hell Singer hasnt even signed up yet...
Harry on a diet to get role of "The Blob"? by Emerald Eyes	May 22nd, 2001 12:16:30 AM
Here we go again. First the badmouthing of the first "X-Men", then the f*#king "no organic webshooters" bullshit... Ambush Bug and Village Idiot are right on the money. 20-foot tall robots don't cut it in the movies. What made "X-Men" succeed in the theater (whether the fanboys realize it or not) was it's BELIEVABILITY. No stupid flashy spandex, no flying everywhere. I mean, of course it's a comic book, but "X-Men" wasn't so outrageous that people were laughing at it. Bryan Singer and Co. hit the perfect note with design and tone. Making the Sentinels look like Voltron destroys any credibility the franchise built with a MASS AUDIENCE last time. This will DESTROY any chance of a third film. And to the guy that says the Imperial Walkers set some kind of cinematic precedent with giant cool robots... dude, "Star Wars" was a totally different game. It was pure SCI-FANTASY and had no pretentions of taking place in "the real world" (which X-Men proports to). Think about it: if X-Men 2 had Tauntauns and Greedos running around, you'd be pissing yourself laughing. The same applies with your Walkers theory. Harry's completely off his rocker this time, although he's right to be concerned about David Hayter writing this. For those who don't know, Hayter was basically a secretary who filed and compiled all the early drafts by Solomon, McQuarrie, Whedon, etc. into a shootable script. I'm astounded that this guy is now getting work as a writer. I guess anything's possible with a good agent these days.
And furthermore... by Emerald Eyes	May 22nd, 2001 12:32:06 AM
Will you slack-assed punks PLEASE quit pitching your "brilliant" movie ideas for X-Men? ANY dumbass can have an idea (except George W. Bush)! Get your asses off the Internet and go try to actually WRITE a screenplay! If I had a dollar for every shithead that said "I can do better than them...", I could start my own f#*king studio! Just because you read comics and can spell (some of you, at least), doesn't mean SHIT when it comes to executing a coherent story with interesting characters and plausible conflict. Shit or get off the pot! When you sign a million-dollar script deal, you can pitch all the ideas you want to people that give a shit (maybe) about what you have to say. Now go write!
Comicartist, I do presume to lecture you... by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 12:36:00 AM
...because anyone who professes to be a fan of the X-Men, yet still uses inflammatory words like "faggot", is a hypocrite in need of a lecture. Using the word "faggot" is like using the word "nigger." You know it's wrong, you know it's considered a derogatory slur, but you want to incite people. Criticizing you for that isn't political correctness or "following the herd", it's just calling you on the truth of your actions. As far as "assuming shit"...my friend, I assumed nothing. You wrote, "This is what happens when you have faggots making superhero movies." YOU WROTE THAT. And no assumption is necessary to know that you've got some hate burning in you. You think I've got "female like sensibilities" for finding what you wrote offensive? Tell me, would you be offended if I wrote "This is what happens when you have niggers making superhero movies?" Is that a different story, or would that only offend "female like sensibilities" too? Sorry pal, but hate speech is a two-way street.
Emerald Eyes.. by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 01:14:30 AM
Look, man, this site is devoted to movie criticism. If it really bothers you to have fans second-guessing pros, find another site. For that matter, I'd guess that a good chunk of the AICN audience is trying to do something to make their creative mark, on film or in other media. Just from reading Talkbacks, I know there are plenty of RTF-types and wannabe writers in the house, so don't assume that everyone here is all talk. That said, Talkbackers are a damn whiny bunch. That's why I'm usually at least trying to offer constructive criticism and engage people in real debate. So, to address your earlier refutation of my points... ***** First off, I don't think what made Singer's "X-Men" a total success was its believability, as you suggest. I'd say the success was more the result of sincerity. Singer believed in the characters and the themes of the comics, and he presented them without tongue-in-cheek. It's the same approach that made Richard Donner's "Superman" work so well. Basically, he gave the concepts respect. However, I maintain he could've showcased that same respect and sincerity while still pushing the envelope of believablity. He could've given us flashier costumes, flying characters, and more over-the-top powers (with the proper budget), and I think even mainstream audiences would still have embraced it as long as it had the same strong characterization. "The Matrix" was grounded in reality, but you better believe they're gonna pull some trippy action shit in the sequels. Seeing Neo flying at the end of the first one was just a drop in the bucket. The Wachowskis aren't afraid of injecting the fantastic into a strong storyline, why should Singer? It's not as if the first X-movie was that realistic. You honestly think a giant CGI robot, rendered with all the power of ILM, would be such a shock after seeing Magneto lift cars, Cyclops blow away rooftops, and a guy with a fifty-foot tongue? I think you're overstating the necessity for realism. And I stand by the Imperial Walkers as an example of credible, menacing giant robots. The ILM boys could animate one of those babies tromping through Times Square, crushing folks and incinerating them, and it would be effective. Maybe Dr. Doom built 'em, whatever. Any grins they might inspire initially would fall away as the slaughter began, backed by ominous cinematography and eerie music (two factors which Lucas skillfully employed). You guys are dismissing giant robots as silly because you're not bothering to mentally establish a context in which they could be cool. I can only repeat..."use your imagination." And if we can veer away from the specifics of robots for a sec, I also made the point earlier that both the T-Rex of "Jurassic Park" and the recently CGI'ed Godzilla made for formidable giant foes. Say what you will about the individual movies ("Jurassic Park" - pretty good, "Godzilla" - craptastic), but the creatures themselves were menacing within a wholly realistic context. Big robots can works. Big monsters can work. Big Sentinels can work. I'm willing to entertain the idea of slightly smaller Sentinels, as Cowblaster has suggested, I'm just not convinced of the need for them. Not when 20 or 30 foot Sentinels would be so much cooler.
Lets Not Start The Bashing Yet People, And To COMICARTIST, Was T by The Founder	May 22nd, 2001 02:02:10 AM
I have faith in Singer and Co to do right by the X-men.I think we all need to be realistic that FOX isn't going to spend a hell of a lot more money then they did on the first one.The first on was great, but it wasn't do to the action(which was lagging) it was mainly do the the accurecy of the characters for me. I don't know about the legacy virus in the storyline working as the theme in the sequal? The first barely touched on the social ills of mutants.I have to agree that the light racism tone displayed against mutants in the first movie didn't have enough of an impact to make you care for these characters, and their powers were so watered down that you couldn't identify with the normal humans on why they hated and feared mutants in the first place. I think human sized sentinals would work, but if they do it along the lines of the operation zero tolerence story.I think Bastion would be cool as the villian(great part for Hopkins)with his prime sentinals and I could even accept the legacy virus in this mix. It would also be great if they had a couple of big sentinals take on the x-men (I think sentinals in the hundreds would be to much)and the xmen preveil over them, and then Bastion and the government decide that the more human sized prime sentinals would work better, because they're more low key and can take a mutant by surprise as opposed to having the huge sentinal that a mutant can spot from a mile away. It's so may sceniros that can be adapted to work in the film, but I do know that I don't want to see heavily armed humans with advanced weaponery that deal with super human threats calling themselves sentinals in the movie(I believe those are sheild agents or SCU officers if you read Superman)because that would suck.I think a good deal of non comic fans have an idea that the sentinals are robots in the x-men. Please people leats not start all the bashing of the flick until the film comes out, and to Comicartist that was'nt cool man disrespecting Singer like that, because the man did a good job and took it seriously. What does being gay have to do with the man screwing up the movie? I'm black as well and you should know more than most the problems we face with being judged based on the color of our skins as opposed to the quality of our work and our indivisuality(spellcheck)and not them being all the same. The movie could have easily ended up garbage in the hands of somone else, but despite the problems Singer had with Fox he still put out a pretty decent movie, and Mckellen did a good job as well. If the moivie turns out to be crap you can put the balme on FOX, becuase I read that Singer was already haggling with Fox over the budget(again)and I can see he's going to have a laundry list of problems with them before this is all over with.At any rate lets wait until the movie comes out before we start the bashing
Last time, Comicartist. by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 02:02:37 AM
It's funny that you went ballistic on me when you thought I was making presumptions about you, yet you're perfectly willing to generalize about me all day long. That, and go on long-winded screeds against liberals. I think you do that in every Talkback you appear in, actually. Look, I don't care about your life, and this debate isn't about liberalism or blacks/white relations. My original point was to criticize you for using the word "faggot" as a slur, and that point still stands. I don't care whether the word means anything to you or any gay friends you've had, but you should at least be smart enough to know that it's largely used as a derogatory term. And that's how you employed it. Or can you honestly tell me that you were trying to offer a meaningful observation when you wrote, "This is what happens when you have faggots making superhero movies"? That was your entire post, with no context at all. How am I supposed to know you've had gay friends or anything about your life? All I saw was someone using a word I consider as offensive as "nigger." Read your original post a few more times if you're still having trouble figuring why I'd find it hateful. And just for the record, I never called you "nigger." I used that word to replace "faggot" in a sentence you yourself wrote. I was trying to point out that both words were equally offensive, and that your justification for one was hypocritical if you didn't accept them both. The fact that you reacted so strongly is proof indeed that the word "nigger" still carries hateful weight, despite your claim that it's meaningless to you. Don't think that makes me happy. It's simply clear from your response. Personally, it's a word I would never use outside this debate forum, because it has been a part of so much hatred. I can appreciate the idea of undercutting a word's power by adopting it casually, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable for me to call anyone I think might be gay a "faggot." Any justification you have for using it casually works only among close friends or a community that accepts the term as neutral. On anonymous bulletin boards like the Talkbacks, however, there's no way to establish that context, and the word will always come across as a slur first. Comicartist, I find it hard to believe that you didn't use the word with the intention of provoking anger, but even if your motivations were completely benign, the lack of context gave your post the weight of hate speech. So, I'm asking you to be less brazen about using the word. And I apologize if I offended you in trying to make my point with the unpleasant n-word. Talkbacks are rough and tumble enough without invoking slurs. Now let's get back to talking about movies.
We've already had human Sentinels in the comics by Cypher_UK	May 22nd, 2001 02:08:01 AM
All right, not many people liked them, but they did appear; humans who unwittingly carried some sort of cybernetic enancement that at the instigation of the Right, or some group like that, turned them, willingly or not, into human sized Sentinels who hunted in packs of three. I also agree that the Legacy plotline would be a baaaad movie. Virii just don't have the screen presence you'd need, what with needing microscopes to give them any screen time at all. Big robot Sentinels would be the way I'd like to see them go, but only because I'm a traditionalist. Perhaps the cyborg Sentinel's could be a seen as prototype versions near the end of the movie, allowing for a more personal denoument.
Where can I see film scripts? by DrX	May 22nd, 2001 02:37:24 AM
I would love to read those early drafts that didnt make it to the screen. Wolverine knitting? Bring it on! The only one I know is Drews. Anymore?
Sentinel style by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 02:52:18 AM
Okay, the humanoid Sentinels have apparently been done in the comics during an era I skipped. That's fine. That's cool. But do we want that very Terminator-esque concept to be the first onscreen representation of one of the X-Men's greatest foes? Human robots are passe. We've seen 'em in "Star Trek", seen 'em in "Terminator", seen 'em in "Star Wars", and even the upcoming "Tomb Raider" movie looks to be sporting an oversize variant. Audiences will yawn at them as villains, even if they're formidable foes. Audiences have been down that road, and Arnold Schwarzenegger owns it. But ya know what audiences have never seen? 40-foot tall engines of destruction that look like Jack Kirby designed 'em! I keep saying this, but it bears repeating: franchises like "The Matrix" and "Star Wars" don't wow viewers by playing it safe and going with effects we've seen before! They wow them by doing the unknown and breaking new ground! And if ever a genre should be breaking new ground on film, it's the superhero genre! The X-Men sequels are gonna look positively conservative in comparison if the filmmakers don't tap into some of the comic's energy! Give us something we've never seen on film - the REAL Sentinels, in all their hulking glory! Staged properly - and Alex Ross's art from "Marvels" is a beautiful starting point - giant robots could be awesomely intimidating. When the X-Men go up against that, audiences will be fucking rooted by the spectacle. It's gonna look like a no-win scenario for our heroes, and when they triumph it's gonna be a pure shot of adrenaline. Now if they go up against wanna-be Terminators, audiences will just walk out in favor of movies that actually push the conceptual envelope - "Matrix 2", "Star Wars Episode 2", "Lord of the Rings", etc. The competition is fierce in the fantasy-action genre these days, and the X-Men can't afford to play it small and conservative.
I'm guessing that the Sentinels will be very similar to the Agen by Psyclops	May 22nd, 2001 03:44:17 AM
Why don't they just do the whole CGI robot thing? It could be very effective without looking silly... remember ROBOCOP?
I'm glad they're not going to be robots - by Syrinne	May 22nd, 2001 04:32:47 AM
Because it makes no sense at all to have them be so. If you were a government agency, trying to come up with a government-run task force to be able to duke it out with these powerful mutants, what would you do? Would you whip up some of the best weapons and armor possible and stick them on your guys, or invest infinte gobs of money trying to develop a technology which would still be decades beyond the "near-future" era in which the X-Men flick takes place? Singer and co. worked hard to make the film believable, plausible; if they'd just taken the comic (or most any comic) and thrown in up onto the screen, it would have looked unreal and ridiculous. The former we can handle, the latter, would be disappointing unless it was intended as a farce. But they went the route of plausibility - no garish yellow spandex; and they made the grand metaphor of mutant as victim of prejudice in today's society. It was a great film on many levels. Now you want them to ruin that by making the second flick into this moronic giant robot film? That worked on paper, for adolescent boys - hell, I loved it. But the comic world's time and place is an Earth in which technology has made insane leaps. It's also one in which the creators could do anything they could draw, and they thought it would be fun to have giant robots stomping around. But would that ever happen in reality? No - why make a GIANT robot? Why even bother with a robot when you've got loyal soldiers that can behave in much more complex ways and dress up in Iron Man gear? A guy wearing some level of protective armor and a machine gun on one wrist and a rocket launcher on the other makes more sense. Screw purism.
giant spider by spyridon	May 22nd, 2001 04:39:46 AM
The giant mechanical spider was the only thing remotely cool in WWW. But Jet Jaguar Sentinels would be a joke onscreen.
Why make it if it's not right? by 15ijw	May 22nd, 2001 04:50:44 AM
What kills me is that some dick-head-wannabe-write/artist in a suit in Hollywood always wants to put their chees-whiz-in a can 2 cents into a really cool project or idea.Can't they just stay w/ the original plot & concept?!?! Why make it if it's not gonna be right? Don't they realize that there are hard-core comic fans out here that pay attention to these little details....the people want good, thorough stories w/ substance!!!! Burn Hollywood Burn!
Human Sentinels- COOL! by Puddleglum	May 22nd, 2001 04:56:35 AM
Not only Make them human, but they could still be GIANT SIZED! YEAH! As long as it's going to be that cool and divulge from the canon of X-men, let's make sure the writers include a scene where Xavier finally gets up and walks outta his WHEELCHAIR! And they make Beast a woman and make Jubilee the STAR of X-men 2! YEah! Right on! Rogue with a dick?? Well, as long as the Sentinels are goig to be human, why not.....
This kind of thing happened last time.. by cyclone_dragon	May 22nd, 2001 05:01:58 AM
and everything ended up fine. In the original X men movie, cyclopes visor was going to look like a pair of regular sunglasses untill the realized it was wrong and gave him the wrap around visor. They will probably fix this too
Human Sentinels could work... by FusionAddict	May 22nd, 2001 05:13:31 AM
...for example, look at the Operation: Zero Tolerance storyline. It involves humans that have been turned into cyborg killers...the "new" breed of Sentinel...by Bastion, actually the new incarnation of Nimrod. Not a bad story, IMHO.
C'mon guys by TheGinger Twit	May 22nd, 2001 05:16:13 AM
How about you all settle down, and stop letting Harry get you all paranoid. It's quite possible someone in rumorville just smegged up that the Robots would be human in size and appearance. Getting away from the huge buidling destroying ones. Not that I really know, I never read the comic or watched the cartoon. But I loved the first movie, and trust they'll make the second one just as good, if not better. You see, it's me they want to impress!
human vs. robot = reality vs. fantasy by ManGyna	May 22nd, 2001 05:18:59 AM
Okay, first I gotta ask does anyone remember the Bryan Singer interview where he said he wanted to present the X-Men in as realistic a fashion as he could? Well, I think that's where this human sentinel thing is coming from. The idea of one-hundred foot tall robots roaming the streets is pretty far out there. The first film was kept as realistic as it could be and that's what drew in audiences other than comic-fandom. For god sakes my parents love the movie and barely know what the comics are! I gotta agree with others out there. Robot sentinels just wouldn't work for the first sequel, but human sentinels with suped up armor and weapons would be a good prelude to robot ones in the third or fourth movie. Hell, they could even introduce a small robot version at the end of this one and that would set things up nicely and stay close enough to reality for Singer. Here's hoping anyway. The ManGyna has spoken.
Ah, some reasonable arguments at last (response to Syrinne)... by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 05:26:34 AM
Syrinne, I don't agree with all of your arguments, but at least you're backing them up logically. Where I disagree with you is in your presumption that full-size Sentinels would necessarily turn the film into a "moronic giant robot film." Yes, I want the action quotient upped several notches from the first film (a sentiment that seems to be nearly universal), but it needn't be at the expense of characterization. Buzz Maverik posted a solid plot idea earlier that would allow for strong emotion and characterization, and still allow for heavy-hittin' action against big-ass Sentinels. How to justify mammoth Sentinels to a non-comic raised audience? First, if you want, make 'em look a little less humanoid than the Kirby look and invoke a little anime influence. I'm damn tired of the anime influence on robots myself, but at least the designs usually look somewhat realistic and "workable." Second, pave the way for the idea with some exposition from that Trask fella who created the Sentinels. Have him talking to his team of designers, explaining the need for hunter-killer robots that can sustain massive amounts of damage from mutants with powerful offensive capabilities. Show some footage of Storm lightning-zapping an entire team of human-sized robots, or some guys in battle armor, to emphasize how ineffective they are against powerful mutants - why bigger is better. Have Trask emphasize the need for every Sentinel to pack a wide variety of weapons and countermeasures to be able to handle anything a mutant might be able to dish out - another reason for their bulk. Couch the exposition in realism like that, and I say audiences will buy the classic Sentinels. A perfect example to back my theory is Magneto's mutant-making machine in the first film. Talk about a radically bizarre technology! Even silly, if you think about it out of context. But Singer was too smart to let that happen. He unveiled it slowly enough to allow audiences to take it in, through fine actors like McKellan and Stewart. He never let the film dwell on the silliness of it. And perhaps most imporantly, he never approached it in a nudge-nudge, wink-wink way. He presented it with absolute conviction and gave us Senator Kelly's grisly transformation to underscore the seriousness with which the audience should treat the device....and it worked. The silly mutant-making machine worked. Realism is in the eye of the beholder, but if Singer can pull off a mutant-making machine, I believe he could credibly present giant Sentinels. Last thought: Syrinne, you kinda knock some of the comic's dramatic excesses as being "for adolescent boys", but in all fairness, that adolescent stuff is part of what X-Men is about! Strong characterization and themes of tolerance gave it the longevity it's enjoyed, but X-Men is also about cool shit going down! Giant Robots, aliens, Dark Phoenix, etc. I'm annoyed that every superhero movie that comes out feels compelled to temper all the wondrous stuff in superhero comics in favor of bland realism. Especially when special effects are as amazing as they are now. It's been 20 years since "Superman II", and there's still not a single film to rival the superhero combat it staged. Not one! You say "screw purism", I say "screw realism." At least when it gets in the way of the "super" in "superheroes." I swear, "The Matrix" sequels are gonna have our superheroes looking like wusses if they go up against second-rate Terminators or guys in battlesuits. The technology has arrived for real ball-busting superhero entertainment, and filmmakers are fools if they don't apply it.
it is superman 3 all over again by 28	May 22nd, 2001 05:47:06 AM
god help us all!!!!!!!!!!! if you saw superman3 you know what i am talking about
Harry in Maxim by Hud	May 22nd, 2001 05:56:09 AM
Speaking of X-Men, pick up the latest Maxim and turn to the movie spoof feature. For a funny bit lampooning the assembly-line nature of studio movies, the editors fabricate a glowing quote from one "Harry O. Beese" of "Ain't It Dorky News" who adds a "thanks for the hookers" to his reliable tongue service for the latest release.
Jesus O' Reilly - Thank you! by HypnoToad	May 22nd, 2001 05:57:45 AM
No one could have said it better. (Hey Harry, look, no one is two words!)
my two cents by JonQuixote	May 22nd, 2001 06:06:49 AM
I don't have a problem with human sized Sentinels, although I think about 10-12' tall sounds about right. Which isn't to say that the giant ones couldn't work, but I think smaller is better. Something as gigantic as a 50' Sentinel would be better suited to property damage rather than mutant hunting - Doesn't a NY Mutant just have to pop into the subway tunnels or the subways to get away from these enormous robots? How realistically would the human population support a government program that results in every time somebody grows wings from their ankles, half the city is shut down for a week due to construction resulting from property damage as these monstrous robots crush, blast, and demolish a few city blocks in their effort to find her?*Why does comicartist remind me of Rob Liefield?Regarding the casting of Gambit, might I suggest the actor upon whom the character was originally patterned: Dennis Quaid?? He'd be perfect, roguish, charming, cajun-accented!**I really doubt we'll be getting Beast and Nightcrawler in the same movie, or at least introduced in the same one. Two more blue mutants introduced into a world that has only established a tiny mutant base population might have audiences wondering why so many mutants go blue. My votes for new characters: Beast and Angel. Two characters that don't require much backstory and would be cool to look at on-screen. That gives you a core of Beast, Angel, Storm, Jean Grey, Cyclops and Wolverine, with Rogue and Iceman waiting in the wings. Pretty sweet, if you ask me.
Singer by LeeScoresby	May 22nd, 2001 06:40:31 AM
Singer knows what he's doing... I have total confidence in him as a filmmaker, especially after pulling such an outstanding film out of such a ridiculous pre, during, and post production period. COnsidering all the terrible scripts, the lack of time and the tight budget that he worked with, Singer managed to make a tremendously respectful film. I think we can count on him to use his passion for movies to not allow XMen to degenerate into madness. PS- Scott Caan and Anthony Hopkins? What roles are they rumored for?? PPS- I kind of...like the idea of sentinels as humans...I mean, I've always loved the Kirby ones but the idea of the Sentinels being more like Nimrod (the ultra sentinel from the 80's) is also cool. It allows for more versatility and It allows for quieter story telling, which Singer seems to favor over spectacle. It would be VERY cool to have some sort of money shot scene near the end where the robot sentinels descend on the city or something...but you can't build a good, serious comic book movie around giant robots the size of office buildings...
Its a brilliant change! An audience couldnt accept giant robots by Someguywithaname	May 22nd, 2001 06:55:07 AM
They can accept someone jumping around like a frog-or a man flying with a red cape-but giant robots or mechanical webshooters? no way. Now excuse me I have to go watch that movie about a cyborg that is made of liquid metal....
Sentinels by BigDaddyMars77	May 22nd, 2001 06:57:09 AM
I can't imagine having human like cyborg killing machines working for a higher power bent on destroying a team of rebel mutants. Especially if they were wearing suits and glasses. And called bogus names like Mr. Smith. And what if they could do really cool kung fu like moves that defined gravity? That would be terrible..... (Change isn't alwasy a bad thing, my friends)
legacy virus...uh by Project: 2501	May 22nd, 2001 06:57:51 AM
Atleast pick one antagonist over the other, have we learned nothing from the Batman movies? More than one villian = visual turd. If they feel the need for another set of mutants they can exploit and make action figures of, why not go with Morlocks and the Maruaders? It'd be a nice segue into the mutant paranoia introduced into the first film, and who wouldn't want to see Angel loose his wings? Sentinels as human/machine hybrids? Thats to recent in the story, and too close to Matrix agents (let that be sacred dammit). The Master-Mold cranking out legions of the bastards...now that I'd pay 8 bucks for.
Here we go again by Kikstad	May 22nd, 2001 07:00:52 AM
The naysaying begins...The movie's going to suck, I can't believe who they've cast in the part, did you see those set designs, my god look at those costumes...Please, people. Is this how this freakin' generation watches movies nowadays? When I went to see Star Wars in 1977, or Rocky or Jaws or Close Encounters or Star Trek 2 or Empire Strikes Back or Superman or all the movies I loved growing up, we didn't nitpick BEFORE THE MOVIE EVEN CAME OUT!!!! Sure, we nitpicked once we saw it. Why not let these film-makers do their damn job and quit pretending like we know better than they do about what they're doing. Personally, I thought X-MEN was great. I trust Singer to get it right again. And if he doesn't, I'll know when I see the movie. But casting choices, early drafts scripts, plot points, are all things that can be fixed and initial appearances aren't always what they seem. Remember all the hoopla about Keaton as Batman? Remember all the cries of outrage about the costumes in X-MEN 1? Lighten up. I speak out against the naysaying because someone must.
Zero Tolerance by newboy77	May 22nd, 2001 07:04:53 AM
Go read the Zero Tolerance Graphic Novel. NOW! Silence your questions. This will work, have a little faith! So is Scott Caan up for Nightcrawler? Anthony Hopkins as Beast - surely not!
A few responses (Quixote, LeeScoresby)... by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 07:11:03 AM
Quixote, would you stop hangin' with all the realist nuts here and get back to the fantasy roots of superheroes for a sec? Dammit, you realists are pissin' me off! Property damage? Ya wuss. Some things you just ignore in the business of superheroes, and property damage is one of them, right up there with the question of how supervillains fund there projects. But if you're gonna be all anal, I can still cook up ways to sidestep your oh_so_precious realism! See, Trask is a nutjob, but he doesn't want his fellow humans dying, so he programs the Sentinels to target mutants away from heavily populated areas. That means the Sentinels strike in parks, on the highways between cities, at the X-mansion, at night, etc. etc. If they have to go into the city, they will (and by film's end, the X-Men will certainly necessitate it at least once), but that won't be their standard modus operandi. It's also worth noting that property damage doesn't always come with the Sentinel territory. In "Ultimate X-Men", the Sentinels were like vultures circling the city, and when they scanned a mutant, they just incinerated him in a flash. Of course, "Ultimate" has established that mutant terrorists nuked Washington or something to that effect, as a means of justifying the extremity of the Sentinel response. Still, I wouldn't mind seeing the next film upping the ante to that degree. And one last point- if the movie were to establish that mutants are appearing with greater and greater frequency, with mutant-related deaths running very high, then to hell with concerns over property damage! At that point, the goverment is willing to spend a couple million every few weeks on Sentinel damage if they can effectively supress mutants. That's a national emergency, and a couple million be damned! But to return to my original point: stop bein' such a realism baby, man! The characters and themes can still be maintained while indulging in a greater degree of fantasy. *********** To LeeScoresby...the one thing I definitely agree with you on is the faith in Singer. Man, he really came through, and in a way, that's why I'm confident he could helm bigger action setpieces without losing the film's heart. Now I gotta respond to your last line: "...you can't build a good, serious comic book movie around giant robots the size of office buildings." Okay, A)Seriousness is overrated and we do need to remember that the source material is pretty over-the-top stuff, and B)Why not? I'm not saying it'd be easy, but in the comics, one of the most serious stories the series has ever known ("Days of Future Past") was built around robots the size of office buildings. I have confidence in Singer, but why, why, why would you want to limit him with blanket statements like that?
Tom Desanto's cool cameos and more by jak flash 2000	May 22nd, 2001 07:20:18 AM
Tricky ne this. I need to know more than that Sentinals are Human. Are they special police? I will say that perhaps the ideas of the Sentnals are a little too fantastic, but then so was a giant mutant machine. I cant comment on this until I know more. Though I will say that puting too much into a storyline can be a recipe for failure. But then arnt all sequels supposed to be bigger and better and superior? The script writters are just trying to give us our moneys worth. Plus might I add I believe Tom Desanto had a small cameo as a cop in the film Drive (was he the one that got stung by the bee). He failed by not catching Toby Wong. And in X-Men he plays a Policeman once again only to get crushed by Toad. What Cameos to have. I would love to be the one in a movie who is crushedf. Now thats a memorable cameo. If you want to read my opinion and reviews on some film then please visit www.thakksy.co.uk the website ofwhich I contribute reviews. In the meantime I part by saying a good day to all and to all a good day.
Kikstad, this is a debate worth having. by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 07:32:27 AM
I do lament the fact that so much is known about films months in advance of their filming nowadays, but we're living in the information age, and there's no turning back to '77. The anonymity of the internet brings out all the annoying assholes, but it's also established beyond a doubt that "Batman & Robin" is utterly reviled, thus preventing further such atrocities. Fan outcry might even give Lucas a reality check after "The Phantom Menace" debacle. Internet fan outcry certainly set the stage for the grass roots effort that led to the "Princess Mononoke" DVD featuring subtitles as well as the dubbed version. Hell, Raimi even compromised on the hated organic webshooters, doubtless in response to massive fan protest on the 'net. Sometimes, bitching can be a good thing. And in my own defense (since I'm probably one of the loudest naysayers here), I think I've been backing up my arguments and actually engaging opposing points. I also think our arguments have merit because in the broader perspective, we're arguing about translating superheroes in general - what works on film and what doesn't, how sacred the original material is, and what compromises can be reached. For superhero fans, this is interesting stuff. Even those bizarre old Talkbacks where folks yelled at each other over the X-Men's costumes had merit. I appreciate your faith in Singer, but if Harry's site and other movie sites can exert even the slightest influence on this film for the better, it'll be worth it. The sit-back-and-let-'em-work idea is nice in theory, but what if vocal outcry could've stopped Schumacher from going insane on "Batman & Robin"? What if the script had been leaked prior to production and fans were so disgusted that the producers called for a new script altogether? It's a tricky situation, because I don't want to see backseat-driver fans gaining too much control over professional filmmakers, but I do see a lot of positive potential. Yep, when I look back at the dismal track record of superhero movies, I think the pros would do well to listen to the fans.
by Halloween68	May 22nd, 2001 07:33:18 AM
I'm not quite the avid fan that the reviewer is, but I pretty much agree on most of his points. I'm an old school X-men fan, hoping for the best for the movie franchize. It's not looking good. Personally, I didn't think the first one was all that great. Problems: Didn't like the actress that played Rogue (she looks like she's right out off of the Sabrina the Teenage Witch set). Sabretooth does not work for Magneto. He's a wild man that should've remained in the arctic to face off against Wolverine. They had the guy that played Darth Maul from Star Wars. The guys an accomplished martial artist. The only way they could figure out how to use him is too give him a CGI tongue. I didn't like the actress that played Gene gray. She looks good but she will always be a B-movie actress. She can't play emotion or personality. Then there's Storm. What, was she filler. I think she had all of 2 lines. And the wig had to go. Lastly, there's the penis on top of Magneto's head during the final battle sequence. What's up with that. All the rest of the costuming was handled pretty well, why couldn't they've done a little something for Magneto? But then again, after all of the above, the movie had very little cost overhead and too many budget restrictions. I've read time and again that the director really couldn't take the film near what he had envisioned. But the rumors for the new movie don't sound good. Are all the original cast returning? The guy that played Wolverine was perfect. I won't watch it if he doesn't return. I think he was the best thing about the first. That's cool that I'm hearing that Gambit will be in it. But the way things are going and to screw things up the way fox usually does, they'll probably try to bring in that stupid Jubilee character that shoots technicolor lights from her ass. Anyways, we'll see. I hope they reajust before filming. No excuses this time. They've definately got the budget. And ps, the robot sentinals would be awesome, but when your connections said the sentinals would be human, did they say fully human? What about scale? They still could be gigantic, and they could maybe be cyborgs. Who knows. Just to give them character maybe. But the classic sentinals would definately be cooler. The mutant virus idea is stupid though. The above article is right. How can you kick ass on a virus. Also, who's the poos playing Fred in the Scooby Doo picture? Looks like Ellen De-generic. I thought Owen Wilson was slated to play Fred. And what the fuck is Dafney wearing? Is she auditioning for the X-men. I mean, don't get me wrong: Hubba, hubba.
Stop Bringing Up "Operation: Zero Tolerance!" by Cowblaster	May 22nd, 2001 07:37:05 AM
I don't recall anything in this article that said the Sentinels were going to be cyborgs. He said they were going to be HUMAN (as in, completley human with NO robotic parts). If they were shooting for "realism," they'd pick robots over people who turn INTO robots. I can't even IMAGINE what it would take to turn a human being into a Prime Sentinal. . . someone who's perfectly normal until they see a mutant, and then robotic gizmos start sprouting from their skin and giving them new clothes to wear while suddenley loosing all control and running through directives to kill mutants.
Here is an idea, FOX. Why don't you have Alex Ross as your conce by IAmLegolas	May 22nd, 2001 07:47:33 AM
Pick up the ball that the makers of SPIDER-MAN dropped...
Don't have a cowblaster! by muvynupe	May 22nd, 2001 08:01:36 AM
Why is it that all these SUPER fans of the X-Men missed out on the HUGE yearlong plot thread featuring the cyberized half-human Prime Sentinels??? Most of the movie-going audience has not been immersed in YEARS of continuity to back up their appreciation of the big blue and purple wonders of Trask Sentinel technology. Remember, in this "timeline" of continuity, Rogue is in the group BEFORE Kitty, Nightcrawler, Beast, Iceman, Banshee, Thunderbird I, Sunfire, etc. By the time Rogue was in the mix in comic book timeline there had been a thousand Sentinel stories. Folks seem to forget that at the end of the first movie, Mystique's "Senator Kelly" had RETRACTED his previous hard-line stance. Alluvasudden we're supposed to believe that the industrial complex invested BILLIONS of dollars into the creation of a fleet of super-sized robotic killing machines when the staunchest proponent of mutant-hunting has back-tracked???? Wake up, people! A covert op in mutant-hunting makes the most sense here. Human-sized Prime Sentinels who can morph (remember how creepy the agents taking over the "humans" in the Matrix was?) into mutant hunters. The public thinks they're super cops, but their programmers know their real mission. The only decent robot Sentinel was Master Mold and that was mostly because of his implacable co-opting of other technology to rebuild himself. Do any of the robot fans remember that these big, dumb machines couldn't detect that Larry Trask was a mutant because of a funky 70s NECKLACE? Nimrod (the Sentinel from the future) was cool because he was conflicted with his burgeoning "humanity." Master Mold was cool because he was somewhat autonomous and dead set on fulfilling "his" mission. The fleet of Sentinels suck because even though they are a) HUGE b) possesed of superior weapons systems and c) apparently limitless in number, they can never defeat SIX LITTLE MUTANTS! I'm not saying the Sentinels are ideal (I'd like to see the Hellfire Club, thank you very MUCH) but at least it opens the door to the type of plot twist that the new Thunderbird experienced. Unbeknowst to either of them, his girlfriend had been Sentinelized and started to transform once he manifested his mutant power signature. I imagine that's the type of pathos Singer is looking for with the Primes. BTW, don't bother coming at me with the rabid fanboy drama, kids. I can more than defend myself in a conversation about X-Men continuity.
Cormorant - by Syrinne	May 22nd, 2001 08:03:53 AM
Cormorant
What the 1st one should have been by kinanimus	May 22nd, 2001 08:07:15 AM
Pullitzer prize winning author, Michael Chabon wrote a treatment back when the first film was still in development. It contains not only thought ass kicking action, but thought provoking social commentary and vivid character development. Check it out over at Michael Chabons web site, I think it's michaelChabon.com, or something like that.
Additional comments - by Syrinne	May 22nd, 2001 08:18:24 AM
In short, it
Take a chill pill by Geekgrrl	May 22nd, 2001 08:25:18 AM
I think Singer will do a great job. I for one am sick of seeing cgi robots. So shoot me, I'm not a purist. The original movie wasn't a slave to comic history either, and it worked out fine. Chill.
Imperial Walkers...not really applicable here. by Studio Lackey	May 22nd, 2001 08:30:27 AM
I think the point is not that anthropomorphic robots are silly per se, because the Walkers do indeed look awesome in the SW flicks. It's not even that fantastical elements can't work in a comic book adaptation. Rather, I think the point is that in X-Men in particular, Bryan Singer has gone for a more realistic look and tone (as realistic, that is, as a movie can be that features people with rays coming out of their eyes and blue scaly skin), and the Sentinels as portrayed in the comics would look ridiculously out of place in this milieu. I think what we're talking about is a matter of degree and how far you can stretch the boundaries of realism. For instance, the example of dinosaurs in Jurassic Park...that works because the dinos are the most fantastical element of the story, and the story kind of revolves around that, and everything else in the film is portrayed in a more or less realistic style. Now imagine if, in addition to the T-Rex, you all of a sudden had aliens landing in the middle of the action. That would totally break the suspension of disbelief -- it would be one more weird thing than the audience could handle. With the X-Men, you're already stretching the bounds of reality with these mutants...if you add Sentinels to the mix, you really only have two choices -- make the Sentinels more realistic, or change the tone of the entire film to make it more fantastical and less realistic. Otherwise you're asking for trouble. At any rate, what's truly important here -- the outer trappings, or the deeper story and character issues? I guess there are probably still X-Men fans who are pissed off that Singer didn't use the fanciful comic book costumes for his heroes, and could care less about how effective the finished product was as a dramatic work.
Human Sentinels, I think I am going to get SICK! by Norm3	May 22nd, 2001 08:31:51 AM
As someone that owns almost every issue of X-Men #1 included, I will never go see another X-Men movie if they make the Sentinels human! Can't they just leave things the way they've been for 39 years! Don't F**k with our history!!!
you moron! by Logan 3:16	May 22nd, 2001 08:32:11 AM
You ever hear of "Prime Sentinels"? Before you say this movie is headed into the toilet, because the Sentinels are gonna be human.....do some research. If they are in fact not gonna be the giant robots, it is likely because they are gonna be Prime Sentinels (humans enhanced with cybernetic technology). The Prime sentinels are even more dangerous than the original sentinels in that they look and act as humans until the human conciousness is overriddenm by an electronic signal to carry out the initiative. Check out X-Men #65, or the whole "Operatio Zero Tolerance" storyline from Wolverine 115-118. Man, these crazy rumours should be backed up with a little research.
Cormorant by JonQuixote	May 22nd, 2001 08:39:15 AM
Whoa...slow down there Kemosabe. My reference to realism was simply my way of saying that I always felt that the gigantic Sentinels were a pretty stupid idea. I just never bought into it - it seemed too impractical, even for a comic book. I do like a little bit of logic, and I can't suspend completely suspend disbelief with the argument "it's fantasy". If I could, I probably would have loved Superman 3 with reckless abandon. Which isn't to say that I don't think giant Sentinels would work on the screen. I've been hearing that the second movie would focus on Sentinels for quite some time, and I fully expected them to be of the 50' variety, and still looked forward to the movie. However, I think that in comics, film, novelizations, whatever, that Sentinels would work better if they were smaller (with the exception of Master Mold, of course), so I'm not going to get into an outcry against this (alleged) change.*** Now you reference Ultimate, which gives me a chance to chime on on what I percieve to be a major problem with the series. I've only read what I could so far read on marvel.com, but here's my bone to pick. The two Ultimate universes, Spidey and X, coexist. But if Sentinels are flying around the USA, deepfrying any mutant they come across (over 100 dead so far, right?), then how stupid does 15 year old Peter Parker have to be to throw on his costume and start swinging around New York city? How in the hell would Ultimate Captain America stand for this sort of thing? You see what I mean? It's too much...the bad guys are too much, the world is too much. Too dark, too extreme, too little attention paid to logic.
What it really comes down to... by Studio Lackey	May 22nd, 2001 08:40:09 AM
...is that fans need to decide what they want. Do we want an X-Men 2? If so, then we must accept that changes are necessary and an inevitable part of the process of adaptation. That means being more open to the end result and being willing to take the end product on its own terms. Remember the screaming and crying over the casting of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, by those who would not let go of their fixed ideas of what an X-Men film should be? I think we all need to accept that it is physically impossible for any comic book to be perfectly translated to film with no alterations and still succeed as a film. Most of the stuff that works fantastically in print looks ridiculous onscreen. About all you can hope to reproduce directly is the heart and soul of the comics, and I think Singer has done that with X-Men.
Freddie Prinze Jr as Gambit by Pimpin-Ken	May 22nd, 2001 08:45:50 AM
That was a joke by the way.
Casting by Jim Lad	May 22nd, 2001 08:51:12 AM
JB1414... Gambit = Ralph Fiennes Hank McCoy = Robin Williams (just think about it o.k. O.K!)
GIANT ROBOTS by Fuckleberry Hinn	May 22nd, 2001 08:52:58 AM
I hope when they do the Dark Phoenix storyline, which should culminate in the third (and tragic) film, that they stick with the original storyline, which was far more touching, powerful, and poetic - Jean sacrificing herself to save her friends, gaining omnipotent powers in the process, and then killing herself to save the universe from her uncontrollable dark side - than that crap revisionism they heaped on years later that spoiled everything - where Phoenix wasn't really Jean and Jean was in a coccoon under the sea while this self-unaware cosmic imposter loved and lived and died in her place. CRAP! As for human-like sentinnels, I don't know that that's the end of the world. Although I would much rather see giant robots smashing buildings while Storm buzzes around their heads, it may not be the most realistic storyline. This isn't a Godzilla or Ultron movie. For a comic book, it's great. But in the movie's more realistic tone, the idea of someone pouring billions or trillions of dollars into developing and building giant robots that stick out like sore thumbs and do as much damage to their surroundings (buildings, etc.) as they do to mutants, doesn't make a lot of sense. A more covert approach would make better sense, sentinnels that look like everyone else. In the comic books, the giant robots were the first incarnation of sentinnels, from the 50s and 60s. As the years went on, sentinnels eventually took on a human guise to better infiltrate mutantkind. I imagine that human-looking sentinnels can still be presented in interesting ways. Just look at Terminator 2. The possibilities are endless. Big robots only smash and stomp. Disguised robots can sneak and murder more easily. Ideally, they would have both big robots (as prototypes that are dispatched early in the film by our heroes) and the human-like second generation (after their makers learn that bigger isn't necessarily better). Size does matter. And finally, who gives a crap about Gambit? Bring on Ray Park as Nightcrawler! And Vin Diesel as Colossus! It could happen!
casting by Jim Lad	May 22nd, 2001 08:54:54 AM
Oh yeah-and there's only one man who could fill the metal shoes of a Sentinel.....................A nthony Daniels! And Kenny Baker could cameo as one of his little piddies....
Mandroids and Sentinels by Gislef_crow	May 22nd, 2001 09:00:59 AM
First of all, they've got a perfectly viable set of "big dudes in robo-suits" to choose from - the gold-armored Mandroids. Second of all, big 30' Sentinels wouldn't work for one particular reason: integrating them with human-sized actors in combat. You got to have something that's huge yet human-movable (unlike an Imperial Walker). Slow it down, and you'd have something like the dopey ABC robot in the movie Judge Dredd. And speed it up...how? You'd either have to go the full CGI route and try to integrate the actors (good luck), or you'd have big bulky slow-moving robots and partial giant-robot parts swinging at the actors and/or their stand-ins (like Smith climbing the spider leg in WWWest) that would look just like what they were: a giant immobile mechanical device with one moving part. The other problem is such things would overwhelm the actors: the battles in the first X-Men movie are _personal_ and character driven. How much character and banter can you engage in (even a lame line like "What happens when a toad gets hit by lightning"?) when you're fighting a big honkin unemotional robot?
The Legacy Virus storyline stinks from the get-go, here's what F by Monkey_King	May 22nd, 2001 09:36:25 AM
They are totally skipping over a little storyline called the 'Phoenix Saga' and 'Inferno.' Where's Madeline Pryor work into all of this, Nathan/Cable, etc... The Sentinels would've worked better had they not killed off Senator Kelly in the first film. If they do the Sentinels as they should be done they should try doing them in CGI ala huge mech-looking-Gundam-inspired robots with human-like faces(Transformers anyone?) I'm truly hoping they cast Scott Caan as Nightcrawler and not Gambit. Continuity-wise Gambit should come in on the 3rd X-Men film(he did only appear in the comics in the early 90's anyway) and he should be played by Jean Claude Van Damme(watch 'Hard Target' again for further proof). Sir Anthony Hopkins as the voice of Beast(is this turns out to be true) is a stroke of genius. How would Beast/Hank McCoy be realized on film? CGI or animatronic(ala Goro in Mortal Kombat)? A guy in heavy prosthetics would work even better(e.g. Tim Curry as Darkness in LEGEND). Hopefully in the next film we'll learn that in the 2 year interim between 'X' films that the 'X' team has become more of a cohesive unit and that Logan and Scott still have a little static between them. Nightcrawler is now a student at the school and one of Logans buddies, as well as Rogue. Colossus/Peter is featured more prominently and his power comes in handy during the Sentinels battle. A return of Sabretooth to fight with the now, more focused Logan would be a pisser, and the last scene in the film should be the escape of Magneto from his plastic prison. Hopefully someone from FOX will read this post, or someone else could appreciate Old Monkey's vision for a better X-Men sequel. Just please leave Gambit out of it and stick to continuity a bit more. CGI/mech Sentinels and a prosthetic version of Beast are the way to go!!!!
Every single one of you will see X2 and you know it.... by Job	May 22nd, 2001 09:50:11 AM
I seem to remember the last time many of you whined about the littlest things on the last X-Men, and yet, it turned out to be one of the greatest comic movies of all time. The Sentinals, even the comic versions, are probably the worst designs to ever come out of Jack Kirbys head. They look like giant bread boxes, and arent the least bit scary...add to that, that they'd look that much more retarded in a movie like X-men, and you can see why they made the changes. The coolest thing about the first X-Men was watching individual mutants fight, if you have all these giant Lego men flying around, that dynamic is lost. However, make the sentinals human sized, and you can see some one on one action. It'll work out, have faith
.......... by General Idea	May 22nd, 2001 09:54:32 AM
I'm not nuts about the sentinels idea. And I do NOT want to make them humans. If they could make giant robots work, fine. But leave it out if it's just going to look campy. Actually that sentinel in the picture is kinda cool, but why does it have "mystery machine" written on it? The xmen storyline is so full of great stuff, I can't believe they can't come up with something. And absolutely NO convoluted stories with phoenix/ cable/stryfe/bishop/other dimensions/time travel or outer space that a non-fan won't be able to follow without buying issues 1-300. Expand on wolverine, who was easily the coolest thing in the first movie. Introduce another couple x-men. Throw in the Hellfire Club or the Marauders or even the Reavers. ComicArtist I like your plot ideas dude, get to work. Comorant I agree with you they should stick true to the books. If you can't do something right, pick another villain. I found it strange that the first film succeeded in the aspects I worried about (making the characters & their powers look half decent), yet fell a bit short on the stuff I took for granted (story, scope, plot...) Don't get me wrong, I was very happy with the movie, but there is even more potential. I'll cross my fingers & put my trust in Brian Singer. Better yet, let's have a Scooby Doo - X-Men crossover. Wolvie: " Dog, gimme that fuckin scooby-snack before I gut you". Shaggy: "Hey Rogue, like, come smoke with me in the back of the mystery machine. Zoiks!" Magneto: "Argh! Humans would have been punished for their hatred of mutantkind....if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
No, Donner, I'm Not Making The Movie But I Bet I Could! And Emer by Buzz Maverik	May 22nd, 2001 10:07:28 AM
...write a screenplay? What a novel fucking concept? I'll bet if I write one, I can call an agent and he/she'll represent me and take it to a producer, and he/she'll take it to a studio and it'll get made and I'll be hired to do lots of other screenplays, then I'll get a shot a directing. That's how it works, right. It's that easy. You don't have to anybody's son or daughter or cousin or next door neighbor. And you can go to film school too and if the spot gets down to you and Kyle Eastwood they're naturally going to look at your work, academic record and passion and not the fact that Kyle's Dad is an international star and an Academy Award winning filmmaker. While this is happening, you won't have to worry a bit about supporting yourself or be drained from a cubicle job that is the only thing that will pay a living wage and won't land you in prison. You won't have to spend fifteen year making calls, getting hung up on, knocking on doors, writing thousands of letters, following up every lead and connection, kissing asses all to get a ten minute meeting with an associate producer who couldn't hire anyone or even make a recommendation to hire anyone if he or she is so inclined and all they want to do is pick your brain about how to get Steven Segal back on the fucking train in the movie that they're boss is currently developing and they go ballistic and ridicule you when you give them a suggestion and then when you see the movie at the multiplex a year later, Segal gets back on the train the way you suggested. Yeah, write a fucking screenplay. I'll pitch wherever the fuck I want to! Like Bryan Singer and Fox and De Santo and yo' mama actually reads this shit anyway.
COMEDIAN by JonQuixote	May 22nd, 2001 10:09:33 AM
Just as a counter-point, I wanted to say that it has been my experience that the people who adamantly disliked the first movie were, by and large, fans of the comic who didn't get their personal expectations met. I went to a party the Saturday following opening night, and was surprised at the number of people there who had already watched it. I was even more surprised that most of the non-comic fans, especially the women, absolutely loved it. One of the comments I heard from another woman who really enjoyed the movie when I showed it to her was "Wow. There are so many stories here". The reason I bring this up is to illustrate one of the major successes of that first movie, and one that was perhaps the most important: it took a niche property, one with questionable mass appeal, and turned it into a massive commercial hit that roped in new fans while maintaining the integrity in order to satisfy core fans! The characterizations were consistant, the situations were consistant, the actions and relationships were consistant with the comic...not 100%, but close enough. I do not feel that X-Men was a classic, although I feel as though it had a good deal of classic moments and it is obvious that I did enjoy it more than you. However, I also feel that the movie did what was necessary in order to establish it as a franchise, something which was underlined by my belief that the movie gets better as it goes along, culminating in a great last 45 minutes. When I left that theatre, the most prominent thought in my mind was "I can't wait 'til the sequel!" Because of the fact the movie was geared towards establishing a huge commercial audience for the next movies, we will almost certainly get at least 2, and probably more, sequels. Now that characters are introduced and relationships are established (to me, the Cyclops-Wolvie relationship was the best thing about the flick), hopefully the sequels will be able to devote more time to things like action and stories...aided by the fact that the studio will probably be more likely to put more money into the budget and be willing to add more minutes to the running time.
Human Sentinels? by JeffPA	May 22nd, 2001 10:10:34 AM
If that's the case, then get rid of Bryan Singer & Hugh Jackman and replce them with Joel Schumaker & George Clooney. They know how to ruin a franchise the right way.
Disconnect Your Lips From The Asses Of Cheap Producers & Fearful by Buzz Maverik	May 22nd, 2001 10:13:54 AM
..because all it would take is somebody to do it with the love and balls necessary. Free your minds. This is the 21st fucking century. They can do such incredible things, why limit ourselves? And anybody wants to say why ain't doing it? Hook me up with a studio, baby, and I'll show you how it's done right!
Scott Caan/Anthony Hopkins Rumors False by BEARison Ford	May 22nd, 2001 10:38:51 AM
comics2film.com debunked them today
Also, To My Little Buddies Ignorant In The Ways Of The "Industry by Buzz Maverik	May 22nd, 2001 10:40:17 AM
...until the check cleared and neither would anyone else who is serious to any degree about writing or filmmaking.
THis All Seems like Deju Vu All Over Again from A Comic Storylin by KnightsaberPriss	May 22nd, 2001 10:57:26 AM
I mean in like the late 90's they had this concept of human looking Sentinels called Supreme Sentinels I believe. And they totally sucked. They were like big Bubblegum Crisis Boomer ripoffs. Big robots are cool. T1000 rejects like in the comics are not. I mean come on fox! Spend a little money on the X - Men movies! I bet they're cash shy because of how much a monster FX blitzing movie like Episode 2 costs. Giant robots rule!!!! And plus they're more original than those Boomer rejects from the comics. This transcends the fanboy/fangirl thing. I mean no X - Men fan liked the Supreme Sentinels. They were just too dumb of a thing to do to the rockingly cool giant robots.
Cormorant, you're right and wrong... by Kikstad	May 22nd, 2001 10:59:23 AM
You make some excellent points, and obviously as a big movie fan myself for decades I've heard greater ideas sometimes from fanboys than from the suits in Hollywood who make some of the crap we pay money to see. I'm not saying that criticism isn't useful or that we should shut our eyes to everything before a movie comes out. (If that were the case, I wouldn't visit sites like this, but I too enjoy knowing how progress is coming along on a particular movie and discussing plot points and rumors with fellow fans.) But it gets out of hand when start using phrases like "this movie is going down the toilet" when filming hasn't even started yet. It's bad news for films when we the public have access to storyboards, behind the scenes footage, etc., and we use THAT to prejudge a film, instead of the actual finished product, with the proper lighting, framing, editing, sound, etc. It just pisses me off that people can't ESCAPE into the movies anymore. I love speculative fiction, and I studied film, so I know about CGI and special effects and editing techniques, but when I'm in a theater I try to suspend my disbelief and imagine that I'm watching another world, another reality. And if the movie is good then it'll transport me and grip me in its stories and characters. But now all these whippersnappers hear a rumor about a certain plot point and think that it automatically means the movie will suck. Well, sometimes you have to have faith in the film-maker. Maybe having smaller Sentinels fits in with the story they're trying to tell. You know, having Lex Luthor have hair for most of SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE did not ruin the experience for me. Having the Fortress of Solitude be made out of crystals instead of carved into an Antarctic cave with a giant metal door opened by a giant key did not ruin the movie for me. I see the Sentinels and the Legacy virus fitting into ONE story whose theme is the persecution of Mutants. These are PLOT TOOLS to tell the story, they're MACGUFFINS as Hitchcock would call them. They just exist to give our characters something to do and reveal who they are -- THAT'S the important thing, what's this story all about. The Sentinals can be little pink lego blocks for all I care, but as long as they WORK in the story and convey that sense of dread and persecution and horror, then it will work. We don't need for it to match the comicbook drawings 100%. It's the idea that's important. And all these fanboys who never learned how to write themselves seem to think that they know all about screenplays and story structure and character development, and then they're complaining about casting and design elements. Give me a break. I respect intelligent critiques -- the organic vs. mechanical webshooter debate for Spider-man was necessary because that's a critical decision that affects the portrayal of the character. It has deeper meaning. And if you're going to criticize the depiction of the Sentinals, then give some real reasons. But simply to say "it won;t look cool that way so this movie will suck, it's all going down the toilet, man" is ludicrous. And it's that kind of naysaying that isn't constructive criticism but worthless input. (I'm not proofreading this, so sorry for any typos.) -- Peace out.
Kikstad - can I give you a hug? by JonQuixote	May 22nd, 2001 11:06:54 AM
It's like you were writing from my thoughts...like you looked into my mind, and wrote what you saw. Thanks for choosing to ignore the Britany/Sarah Michelle sandwich.
Free hugs for all by Kikstad	May 22nd, 2001 11:25:59 AM
But had I known there was a Britney-Sarah sandwich... :)
Muvynupe. . . by Cowblaster	May 22nd, 2001 11:28:28 AM
. . . was that meant as a response to my last post, because I honestly couldn't tell. Yes, I know what Prime Sentinals are. They're human beings who were given cybernetic implants that would take over and reprogram them into mutant killing machines at the first sight of an actual mutant. This transformation also manipulated their physical appearance and even made them look robotic. Now, my initial question is this; which is more of a fantastic concept? Robots or people who turn INTO robots? Besides, like I ALSO said before, this article never mentions anything about human beings who turn into robotic killers. It simply says that the Sentinals may be HUMAN. The Prime Sentinals were NOT human, they were CYBORGS. If the filmmakers want REALISM, they'd either make 'em humans with guns, or just big robots (they could be 9 feet tall for all I care). They wouldn't make them into people who turn into machines. Why? Because that's more implausable that just plain ol' robots. (Man, I'm getting sick of having to repeat myself).
The Meeting The Suits Would Hold If They Actually Gave Me The Mo by Buzz Maverik	May 22nd, 2001 11:30:44 AM
"Jesus, I thought James Cameron was a prick!" "I thought Oliver Stone was motherfucker." "The crew is saying that he should do a cameo as Banshee because he yells so loud. What's a Banshee?" "It's one of those robots." "Get this, he doesn't use a monitor all the time. He sits up by one of the cameras with that damned shotgun we had to buy him across his knees." "We had to hire some people called Supremeninja, Commodore and Joe Quicks-oat off AICN." "They work for Harry Knowles?" "How the hell should I know?" "What's he got 'em doing?" "They sort of rewrite his script, but then he smokes a bunch of ya ba and rewrites the whole thing again himself." "Typical. What's the footage look like?" "Like it was directed with Tim Burton's eye, Zemeckis sense of structure and Michael Bay's testosterone level." "Send him some more cigars."
Hollywood, making creative blunders? Say it isnt so? by simian	May 22nd, 2001 11:35:56 AM
Well, I'm one for those people who is still pissed they picked some tall, young buck to be Wolverine, so fuck em'. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if this rumor turns out to be true. Its amazing how they limit themselve sin Hollywood. Its like they are saying, "Well we've got ourselves a FANTASY film here, but God forbid we have giant robots. That just woulnt make sense." If the Sentinels arent robots, dont call them Sentinels, dont refer to the Sentinels story, and just create a new group to be the nemisis. Why buy the fucking idea if you are just goig to beat the shit out of it until it is an unrecognizable mess?
Well, they did do human Sentinels in the comics recently... by Brand Echh	May 22nd, 2001 11:57:41 AM
It is possible that the movie writers were going by the most recent version of the Sentinels that saw print, which was a few years ago. They were called "Prime Sentinels" and they were basically normal humans that, when they came into contact with a mutant would transform into a human-sized Sentinel. They basically looked like guys wearing Sentinel-helmet-style headbands in bad busniness suits. Really dumb. However, for a cool version of sentinels, you can check out the "Wild Sentinels" that premiered in the latest issue of "New X-Men" that hit comic stores last week. At any right, this is a time when damn it I wish they would have Alex Ross or maybe Lenil Francis Yu or some other comic artist design this stuff. It'd be nice. As for Gambit: I'm thinking Ray Lioda (sp? he was in that Hewett movie that just came out) Or their's always Van Dam, he's got an accent and he can move... sure he's a midget and it's the wrong accent, but it's a start.
Use Quicksilver this time, and stick with robots because by Drath	May 22nd, 2001 12:10:37 PM
it would give the humans something powerful with which to fight mutants. I was afraid Synger would cringe away from the sentinels because he was going for that "it needs to feel real" idea. Too unrealistic? Um, the Blackbird looked pretty damn advanced for a group of special education workers seving an inexplicably wealthy professor. I don't think Sentinels are too far removed from the world of the first movie. It doesn't have to be cheesy. As some one else mentioned, look to the power loaders in Aliens for some early concept work. Just try and capture those images of Kirby's, it would be new to the screen. It's ambitious, it's not easy, but it's doable. And like I said, it fits Synger's vision if he wants man to be the bad guy in X-Men 2, that they should have powerful machines to do their dirty work. After seeing the plastic prison Magneto was in, I believed that Sentinels could work in this world of his, so now I would be VERY disappointed if Synger turned away from the one of the better ideas in the comic books--Machines and technology being used to destroy and oppress by corrupt and frightened leaders. Shoot, the near assassination at the end of the last film would even justify the world leaders paying for the Sentinels! They'd be worried of a real threat from Mutants.******On another note, I don't care about who gets into the next film so long as Quicksilver is in there. As Mangeto's half-human son he'd bring a whole new side to Ian McKellen's part, and would probably help excite the actor to reprise the role just in case he feels little else can be done with the character. I don't know who should play the Pietro Maximoff-Quicksilver, maybe Apt Pupil costar Brad Renfro? Whoever they get, make sure he has white hair for the part.
FUCK SENTINELS by jagoff	May 22nd, 2001 12:48:55 PM
I don't care about them at all. I like the virus idea much better. I see wolverine getting the virus out of his system and saving the day as usual yes Baby! That is my man!Why don't they make sentinels as human carriers of the virus who deliberately infect mutants, by sex, blood transfusion, etc. And O
Be afraid. Be very EFFING AFRAID! by Redbeard_NV	May 22nd, 2001 12:53:24 PM

let me get this straight... by Wee Willie	May 22nd, 2001 01:07:17 PM
You declare this movie is headed into the toilet because it's NOT going to have GIANT ROBOTS. This sounds like fan-boy bullshit to me. I don't know if you're aware, but this franchise already resides in the frikkin' toilet. It's a COMIC BOOK MOVIE.
What, what, what??! by kmart23	May 22nd, 2001 01:37:07 PM
Seriously, when film people option an idea, especially when its a comic, or TV, or book adaptation, why can't they just do it the way its done in the source material? Why do they always have to change it and fuck it up? Granted, in some cases when something looks too stupid to work in "real" life (i.e. the costumes) they can alter it, but when it comes to the fundamental aspects of the story and the characters, why do they do it, why?! Why is Batgirl suddenly a blonde and MJ a blonde turned fake redhead? Why were there nipples on the fucking Batsuit? Why are the Sentinels human, and why is Cyclops shorter than Wolverine? Isn't the reason why people want to do "Blank:The Movie" is because they want to see an idea expressed in the ultimate medium? Why do they always have to fuck with a good thing? Somebody clear this up for me.
Harry should be shot for posting stupid shit like this... by Gustavo Cerati	May 22nd, 2001 01:43:36 PM
....who gives a fuck about what any of you think the movie should be about? Is anybody going to listen to you? NO. Do you know what the actual movie is going to be about? NO. Does Harry know? NO. So....does this stupid post mean absolutely anything? NO.
Alex Ross Is NOT A Good Designer! by Cowblaster	May 22nd, 2001 01:47:55 PM
Sure, he's a phenomenal artist, but "Great Designer" he AIN'T! Did anyone else see his proposed X-Men costumes in Wizard Magazine that were rejected? You know why? Because they SUCKED!!! Come on! Solid black tights with different colored X's on them. How uninspired is this? Those of you who are in love with his Spider-Man movie designs should keep in mind that he didn't actually design them, he just DREW them. Some friend of his came up with them, and he just pitched them to Sony.
HEY Gustavo Kuerten... by kmart23	May 22nd, 2001 02:05:58 PM
Go question the meaning of life someplace else, douche bag. The point of this site is to say what we think. According to your logic, you should have committed suicide a long time ago. So go pull a Cobain, and don't forget to turn the gas on in the stove on your way to the bedroom.
I made it into a Buzz Maverick post!!! by superninja	May 22nd, 2001 02:10:15 PM
Woo hooo! I bet all you fanboys are jeaaaaloouuus!!! ;)
Human by bryce	May 22nd, 2001 02:17:36 PM
Although I do think that having giant Sentinels in the movie would be much better, the concept of human Sentinels is not a creation of the idiot suits at Fox. At the risk of sounding like a loser fanboy, there were human Sentinels in the Operation:Zero Tolerance storyline that ran in the X-Men books a couple of years ago. The humans had the ability to change into robots and the such. But I must agree with Harry, a giant Sentinel running around NYC frying mutants would be quite scary and quite a sight to see. I think the reason we won't see this is because of monetary concerns that are being masked by Fox as 'creative liscence."
Get an agent... by kmart23	May 22nd, 2001 02:19:16 PM
Hey fuckhead, keep it to yourself. Chimps write better ideas with their feces. So stuff it back into your Trapper-Keeper and put it back into the drawer with your awful sketches and your fat girl porno mags.
Sure Quiky Mart...I by Gustavo Cerati	May 22nd, 2001 02:20:44 PM
..when the whole world turns upside down and everything I said turns out to be a lie.
sentinels by bryce	May 22nd, 2001 02:23:34 PM
the sentinels dont have to be the size of godzilla to be effective. a sentinel about 3 stories high would be scary enough.
Xeta-Jones please. by kmart23	May 22nd, 2001 02:36:25 PM
Can somebody please stuff Catherine Zeta-Jones' sweet, sweet, ass and cans into a superhero outfit, please? Psylocke? Anyone...anyone, Psylocke?
Why the Sentinels need to be smaller, as told by superninja. by superninja	May 22nd, 2001 02:43:17 PM
Size matters when you're trying to sneak up on someone. It works in the comics, but think about that visual translation! The Sentinels are a mutant detection and capture system. Sure, a giant robot can attack once, but if it attacks again...how stupid will it make the characters look? The things are #$%^ing HUGE! You can't miss them! How much plot are you going to get out of that? Also, it has to be believably written that the PUBLIC would go along with this project -- and the hints in the first movie indicated Kelly had human opposition to the Mutant Registration Act, the human population was undecided. Though it is a metaphor for prejudices, we don't live in a world where everyone feels that way and to make it so far skewed would probably hurt the realistic undertones. However, making them human-cybernetic hybrids would serve several functions: 1) It would make them more stealth-oriented, as they could appear anywhere. Could they even use Mutants themselves? It could create a feeling of tension and paranoia, making any knew members who are "lest trusted" suspect. 2) It's a government secret operation, without sanction from the public or Congress. Which leads me to...3) Wolverine's past could be tied up into such a plot line. What if he's a part of the covert gov't experiments that lead up to the development of the Sentinel project? There were hints at end of the last movie that Logan was going to search for his past. This could neatly tie all the threads together, as the Sentinels are humans who are experimented on, as he was.******I'm also keen to the idea of Jean being captured and "sentinelized" causing her to unleash her Dark Phoenix powers for a sequel.
Dear GOD, I'm agreeing with the Comedian. Armageddon to follow. by Dave_F	May 22nd, 2001 02:54:49 PM
Comedian, I never thought I'd say this, but...you're one of the few people on this board who GETS what I'm talking about. You, Buzz, and a few others. It's rather sad to see everyone else so concerned with playing it safe and not allowing Singer to stretch his legs a little. "Oooh, we don't want to risk upsetting non-superhero fans with cool fucking giant robots! It might scare them, and they run the world! Let's go hide and pretend superheroes are mature and staid and boring and never do cool shit like fight aliens and blow big shit up!" Makes me sick, it does, because superheroes can do ALL those things and still have strong characterization and stories. Quixote, Soichiro, Syrinne...you've all had some reasonable points to make (to which I'll respond later as time permits), but in my heart, I think you're just stifling the potential creativity of the second film. Everyone's anxious to point out why this and that won't work for non-comic fans, and I'm right there with the Comedian, who posted: "Most of those non-comic fans would line up around the block to see Hugh Jackman tearing into a giant robot, while it's walking around saying "mutants, mutants, kill the mutants" trying to swat him off. Hugh eventually cutting the right circuits, the Sentinel tumbling down and Hugh with a full on berserker rage still slicing into it with half his face burned off and healing." Damn straight, Comedian. It's called "imagination", y'all, and if audiences saw it unleashed with some serious comic-inspired fury, all the wild concepts in "The Matrix" would seem flat in comparison.
Where's Proteus??? by FallenStar	May 22nd, 2001 03:04:13 PM
C'mon Singer, he's your favorite villian. Use him. Introduce Moira, the Beast, and Muir Isle. Use genetic research of mutants and the existence of mutants unable to control vast amounts of power as a springboard for the next film, complete with the Legacy Virus and GIANT Sentinels. Muir Isle is raided by the Brotherhood, led by Mystique, and steals research material for an unknown employer. During the raid, they free Proteus. Moira's mutant son who is overwhelmed by his own power. The X-Men race to stop him, finally forced into free Magneto. The X-Men win, but gain there "mutant terorist ouitlaws" status, due to their association with Magneto and the origins of Proteus. The Legacy Virus is created from McCoy's research of mutant genetics, and the Sentinels are developed in response to Proteus sized threats (which is why they'd be GIANT). You end up with a nice bittersweet ending, leading into an epic 3rd film (with no Ewoks).
Best Gambit and Beast by GreatTeacherJoE	May 22nd, 2001 03:05:40 PM
Best Gambit? Harry Cocknick of Matt Mcocknohay? HELL NO! The best Gambit would be bad ass Edward Norton. Think American History X Norton with about the faggy beard and bald head but a lucious set of hair like Rounders while pounding on people like Fight Club....sweet. Best Beast? The Rock..nono..i kid you friend...the best would be Janet Reno..goddamn...she would freak everyone out...and shes got that blue dress and those glasses and the hariness to be Beast...hell..she is a beast!
It's not the size of your sentinel, it's how you use it. by Kung-Fu Bot	May 22nd, 2001 03:09:42 PM
Here's my thing...how come alll the mutants evolved some mutation that helps them fight crime or kick someone's ass? Where are the evelutionary failures like Lemming woman, Aquaman, Lots-and-lots-of-boils-boy and other such useless superheros. You'd have to think there was at LEAST some harmful mutations out there. Especially when it comes to the manipulation of forces. You just know ther had to be one guy stuck with control over powerful smells or the forces of thermodynamics.
Fudge it. My plot synopsis. by superninja	May 22nd, 2001 03:11:50 PM
Wolverine has reached the place of his origins - Weapon X labs. It looks deserted, so he enters and proceeds to get his arse kicked by Sentinels. Meanwhile, back in Upstate New York, the students at the School for the Gifted watch a newscast about anti-mutant sentiment on the rise and the students get into a heated debate. Back to Logan @ the Project. He meets Bolivar Trask who explains that his Sentinel Project is helping him to capture mutants for study. He explains that he has a file on Logan and several others as he's interrupted by the alarms. In the Danger Room, a practice session is taking place. Jean loses control and nearly kills a student. Charles talks to her about the frequency of these incidents. Scott tries to discuss it with her, but she pushes him away. At The Project, the uninvited guest is Sabretooth (who hopefully took some acting lessons), who followed Logan to find out about his own past, revealing their connection to The Project. Trask sicks the Sentinels on them and escapes, blowing up the facility to erase the evidence. Meanwhile, in NY, the younger kids are out for a night on the town. They're at a nightclub when they're attacked by Sentinels masquerading as humans. Cerebro alert Charles, who dispatches a team to rescue them. Several students are captured, as well as Jean. In DC, Trask meets with a secret benefactor, telling him about the destruction of The Project. The benefactor (who turns out to be Sinister) tells him not to fear, that they are progressing on a virus that will wipe the mutants out. The X-Men regroup and decide on a plan of rescue as Logan and Sabretooth show up. Cut to the Sentinels coming after Magneto and capturing him, breaking him out of his plastic prison (keep in mind, the Sentinels are a rogue gov't operation). Charles has predicted this, and uses Cerebro to track the Sentinels to their home base so they can rescue Jean. Jean, who has met other mutants at the Sentinel holding facilities, including Beast. He tells her about the experiments and the Legacy Virus, and mentions Charles is "an old friend of his". Charles dispatches two teams: one to retrieve Jean and the others as general rescue with Cyke and Storm as field leaders. Back at the lab, Jean is hauled into the presence of Mr. Sinister. In a nutshell, he uses genetics to unleash her "Dark Phoenix" powers. This leads up to a huge battle at the end -- X-Men & Magneto vs Sentinels vs Mutinels vs Dark Phoenix.
One word for you Cormorant: Continuity. by superninja	May 22nd, 2001 03:19:09 PM
I know how you feel, and I agree. But at the same time, I would like the tone of the second film to mirror that of the first. Maybe that seems boring to you, but I would not like to thing the world created in the first film was for nothing. It annoyed the $hit out of me when Batman Forever came out and the whole tone and characterization had changed. The scene you described above with Logan would be cool...of course. But what about 15 human-sized robots piling on top of Logan all at once? The only thing I hope is if they do go with human/human-sized Sentinels....PLEASE NO GIANT SENTINEL FOR THE FINALE!!!!
human sentinels = Terminators; brood = Aliens by corvette63	May 22nd, 2001 03:41:30 PM
I agree with the talkbacker that compared the human sentinels to terminators. Could it work? Sure just don't be surprised if the X-Men go up against some big headed aliens in the next sequel. I think Fox is scared of big Sentinel b/c of the cinematic challenges of staging fight scenes, etc. I think Ultimate X-men have had some of the coolest fight scenes between X-men and the Sentinels. Fox loose the legacy virus and keep the sentinels. Just take a look at the Ultimate X-Men to see it done right.
Cowblaster et al... by muvynupe	May 22nd, 2001 03:48:43 PM
The response spoke to your post and a host of others... But to answer your question on realism. The issue isn't human-sized robots vs. cyborgs who turn into killer robots per se, but rather 30-foot purple and blue, multi-billion dollar, limited maneuverability robots vs. cyborgs who turn into killer robots. We live in a world that is scaled to accomodate the human body. Building a hunter-killer that is 5 times the scale of a human is grossly inefficient. They can't track humans into any building without destroying the building and killing humans. They can't engage the mutants in any major city without threatening humans. And frankly, humans are FAR more likely to be afraid of a super-robot that's breaking buildings than someone who looks like Famke Jansen. From a fuel standpoint alone, these things would be economically implausible. On the other hand, thanks to Terminator 2, the Matrix, Westworld, Six Million Dollar Man, Robocop, Virus etc. audiences have been comfortably introduced to the concept of cyborgs/AI and how that stuff MAY work in the SciFi world. The point is this, whether a Prime is a robot who masquerades as a human or a human who gets taken over by technology, it's a hell of lot easier to swallow than a fleet of giant robots who spout about being slaves to their logic and fly into the heart of the sun in a vain attempt to destroy the ultimate source of mutation on the planet... PUHLEEEEEZ!
You DON'T have to use BAD LANGUAGE in yer subject headline to M by SexieEwok	May 22nd, 2001 04:01:15 PM
THEY SHOULD BUILD THE SENTINALS TO KILL ALL US REGULAR HUMANS....CYCLOPS WOULDN'T TALK LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
The BORG in First Contact WERE LAME by SexieEwok	May 22nd, 2001 04:04:54 PM
EVERYTIME THEY TRY TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IT JUST COMES OFF TO ME LIKE IN AN INFERIOR VERSION OF "ALIENS" THE BORG WERE TOO SIMILAR TO THE ALIENS. THESE HUMAN SENTINALS WOULD BE TOO SIMILAR TO THE TERMINATOR AND THE ALIENS.....THIS IS X-MEN NOT A JIM CAMERON MOVIE!!!
Muvynupe, Part 2 by Cowblaster	May 22nd, 2001 04:16:53 PM
I understand your sentiment about Giant Sentinals being too big to fit into a good story. In fact, I share it. But, the Sentinels wouldn't have to be 20 stories tall. As I've said before, I'd be perfectly happy to see Sentinals that were 9 feet tall. Just so long as their a bit bigger than normal humans. Someone said earlier that the X-Men movie wasn't realistic at all. Of course it wasn't. But, the filmakers were going for REALISM, not REALITY. Staying true to that, X-Men 2 should not take place in Outter Space, it shouldn't have visitors from the future, and it should NOT have human beings who turn into cyborgs. Even if they were just androids, I'd believe in a bulky, 9 foot robot over a completley human looking one anyday. Ask yourself this; if and/or when mankind finally makes a walking, talking robot, will it look completley human, or like some bulky robot? Also, if this robot was built to combat super-powered beings, would you fit it with armor and weapons, or trim it down to make it look like a normal person? You decide wich is more believable. ***** On a side note, if they decide to make the Sentinals normal human beings with guns, then why call them Sentinals at all? I do believe the comics have had their fair share of human, violent hate groups that the movie can use instead of this.
There's only one Gambit.... by Miss Hope	May 22nd, 2001 04:29:16 PM
and it's Callum Keith Rennie. He's got the smile, he's got the attitude.
cowblaster redux... by muvynupe	May 22nd, 2001 04:54:20 PM
I accept your point of view, but respectfully disagree. Part of the terror of the Sentinels was their massive size. The sheer magnitude of being grasped in a metallic hand that grappled you with super-strong cables that sprung from its palm... If you're gonna do ole purple and blue give me a Trask big-ass Sentinel not some schmoey Sentinelle Jr. For that, you might as well go the Mandroid route. And the other aspect of the Primes relates to the potential for dramatic effect. No matter what you do with a robot Sentinel, it's just one of a group of automatons. With the Primes, you introduce tragic, even quasi-sympathetic antagonists that can interact with the X-men in different ways. The T2 Terminator was a machine with a soul. That undercurrent ran throughout the sequel. Aliens brought a concerned "mother" alien who brought a sense of reason to the otherwise mindless drones. Ripley's "bitch" line in the 3rd act distilled the essence of the conflict between these two elements. I think the Primes can work. I guess we'll just have to see.
I've Got a Kind of Compromise Here. by KnightsaberPriss	May 22nd, 2001 05:27:58 PM
I really think the humanoid Sentinels stink. So much so I was not accurate at what they had been called in the comics. I still think they were and always will be Boomer rejects. Stop ripping off my namesake's show, Bubblegum Crisis and BGC 2040 Marvel! Instead of the Sentinels being like 60 feet high. Why don't they make them at least 20 feet high. I mean they'd still lokk like the traditional robot Sentinelsa but they wouldn't be these hulking massive things that cost the company money that I think they should at least use to get a decent Special effect for the robot Sentinels from the early comics. Not the lame humanoid Sentinels from the latter comics. Changing the costumes is one thing but watering down the coolness of intimidating Non human, artificial Robots into T2/Blade Runner/BGC 2040 Boomers is not the best idea.
KungFu-bot by Village Idiot	May 22nd, 2001 06:12:05 PM
THAT was a funny post. Nice one.
wait a second by KnyghtAlmighty	May 22nd, 2001 06:13:54 PM
i really dont think they should rush into doing X2 so soon.We all remember how craptastic Crapman And Throbbin was because they rushed into it.Give it at least three years between movies for them to get their shit right.Oh and another thing i have to agree with whoever it was that said Anthony Hopkins would be an excellent Bastion(too bad that rumor was debunked earlier today.) and another thing just because Mystiques senator kelly completely went against what everthing the real senator said doesnt mean others in the movie continuity are all pro mutant. Does anyone here but me remember a fella by the name of Graydon Creed and the Friends Of Humanity? HELLO?
And before anyone says anythint it Gyrich that was killed in X-M by KnyghtAlmighty	May 22nd, 2001 06:16:40 PM

cheap by Stolen_ID	May 22nd, 2001 07:17:48 PM
The reason the sentinels are human size is so Bryan Singer can use the same cgi chacters in Battlestar Galactica as Cylons. By your command.
Jericho 25 by Drath	May 22nd, 2001 07:26:26 PM
I was referring to the his human mother, but that's just what I remember from the comics. I think Ultimate X-Men went that way too. It would be a nice way to insert some tension between father and son in the movie, should Quicksilver be used. I didn't think I would confuse anyone with that adjective, but thank you for proving me wrong.
COMEDIAN by superninja	May 22nd, 2001 08:19:54 PM
You know, you guys may be right, but I'm willing to give Singer & Co. the benefit of the doubt.
Holy Shit by Darryl Zero	May 22nd, 2001 08:41:57 PM
Cormorants right! Velma's a babe. Somehow that is just not right, akin to having a secret thing for Wilma while professing to be a Betty man.
READ COMICS!!!! by One Hung Low	May 22nd, 2001 08:45:58 PM
Ok I remember this time last year when everyone was cuming in their boxer shorts over how bad the X-Men movie was gonna suck and everyone was complaining and I kept my mouth shut and look how good the first one turned out except a few FANBOY turnoffs such as Rouge's real name was revealed Sabretooth acted like the MGM tiger and it lacked character developement But don't fret over this film look how the last one turned out READ COMICS!!!
Hello? Human-size Sentinels are in the Comics! by hasdi	May 22nd, 2001 09:05:33 PM
They are called Prime Sentinels, created by Bastion, first introduced in "Zero Tolerence" storyline, which is after the "Onslaught" crossover. I think the concept is pretty cool, Sentinels with the ability to blend in with humans and monitor mutant activity. What would be cooler is if when they emerge from their human facade, they become twice their size. It does not make physical sense but goes along the line of "The Zeta Project".
We Would All Like To See A Variation Of The Sentinels From The C by The Founder	May 22nd, 2001 09:35:13 PM
getting it done properly is the big question. As I've said before rather it's the giant sentinals or the prime sentinals I'd accept either. To be honest I'd love to see the giant ones, but I'm realistic enough to know that Fox isn't going to shell out the cash to make the big ones. The sentinal concept sounds cool, but when I heard that Singer wanted to use the Sentinels in part 2 I found myself thinking "what in the hell is going to show up on screen" and that is what we should be worried about.***CORMORANT I agree with you totalally about the giant sentinals being something the audience hasn't seen before, and how movies like the Matrix and Star Wars took risks that paid off to be different, and being the first to pull it off as others copied their style or attempted to(don't get me started on films that did stuff influenced by the Matrix). Sadly X-men isn't going to do this, and the reason being that Fox is afraid to gamble so we can expect to see a watered down sequel as well.*COMEDIAN,THE I don't think Singer was worried about realism as much as you said he was, I think that he used that as an excuse to an extant to justify the tight budget he was on by Fox, and to a lot of the fans who felt the action was mediocre, and besides he's not going to bash Fox that badly since they are paying him. ***JON QUIXOTE I agree that big sintinals cause property damange, but who cares about property that isn't theirs and it's just a movie so seeing the big sentinals and x-men go at it while tearing up the city would hype up the audience and not to mention if they throw in the x-men fighting off the sentinals while at the same time protecting and saving the humans who get in the sentinals line of fire. As for the government spending millions to make these things may make the audience go "wait a minute" don't count on it, what movie goer is going to care about the us weapons budget while watching the x-men? Do you honestly believe the government who deploys the sentinals haven't taken into account that their are going to be normal humans who get injured or killed in the cross-fire between mutant and sentinal? They do it all the time when going into war or bombing a military base, and their happens to be a town around the base(which it is in most cases)loaded with civillans as a stray bomb strikes a building or a house. Need I go on. I can also see how a mutant ducking in a subway tunnel to avoid the big sentinal can be a problem, well thats what the human sized prime sentinals are for.I said in my earlier post that it would be cool if they used both in the film. Boy these posts can get long when responding on this subject, so let me stop and say that I hope it all works out for the better.
Founder by JonQuixote	May 22nd, 2001 10:52:31 PM
It would seem my property damage comment missed the mark. I really didn't mean it to come across as super-anal...all I meant was that gigantic Sentinels that by very virtue of their design need to rip off the roof of a shopping mall whenever their adolescent quarry wants to go for an Orange Julius just seems a little impractical. I never said an audience couldn't accept the huge ones - I could, and I'm picky - I'm just saying that smaller Sentinels might not be such a bad idea, and it certainly isn't a movie killer.
Cormorant responds...to a lot of ya! by Dave_F	May 23rd, 2001 12:21:55 AM
*** SYRINNE - Many good points made and I appreciate the thoughtful response. I should mention that I'm not a total purist by any means. My personal fave superhero flick, "Superman", skews classic continuity all over the place, and I think it was a better movie for it. In fact, it's my favorite Superman story of_all_time. Singer's changes worked too, though I'm pleased to see you agree that a more melodramatic approach could have been successfully helmed. Where we're butting heads is over the question of the relative "cartooniness" of the Sentinels. You're pretty adamant that they'd upset the tone Singer's established, while I feel they could be integrated with a little creativity. I'm open to scaling their size down a bit, to changing their colors (a menacing black?), but to me, the Sentinels are basically defined by their "bigness." Talkbackers have been pointing out the variants all day long, but in the end, we all know that Sentinels are GIANT ROBOTS. I also disagree with you about armored human agents being more versatile than nigh-indestructable giant robots. The truth is, either of our scenarios could be backed by a skillful filmmaker. I'm cool with Mandroids and such, but if the film has the budget, I see no reason to weasel out on special f/x when they could be blowing the audience's minds. Again, I don't see the inclusion of big Sentinels as necessitating a total break from the reality Singer's established. It's a move towards fantasy, but handled with the same seriousness as Magneto's mutant machine, it wouldn't have to be "ridiculous." "Awe-inspiring"...that's closer to what I'm thinking. Oh, and I'm jonesin' for an over-the-top "FF" film too. They yanked it away from Chris Columbus, right? I pray so. ***** SOICHIRO - I think your suggestion that giant Sentinels would as silly as aliens appearing in "Jurassic Park" is way too extreme. Like many Talkbackers here, I think you're underestimating audiences' abilitiy to suspend disbelief. The first X-movie established such wild technology as Cerebro and a mutant-making machine. It also never spent a single moment explaining why mutant genes would manifest themselves as beams from one's eyes, or through the ability to control weather(!). In that context, oversized hunter-killer robots aren't such a stretch. Like I've been sayin', I'm open to seeing them modified to fit Singer's approach, but not at the expense of the size that defines them! You wrote: "...if you add Sentinels to the mix, you really only have two choices -- make the Sentinels more realistic, or change the tone of the entire film to make it more fantastical and less realistic." I'm seeing a compromise, actually. The Sentinels would be refitted somewhat to be more realistic, but yes, the movie would be veering towards the fantastic. I think a dose of the fantastic is what the series needs to compete with other f/x-heavy blowouts, and it also happens to be my personal preference. *** JONQUIXOTE - So you've always hated the Sentinels eh? Get_out_of_my_SIGHT! What're you doing readin' superhero comics if you can't buy into giant villainous robots? It's par for the course! I also made a point to justify some of the expenses and the advantage of size in my previous posts, so I must respectfully disagree that one can't suspend disbelief if the Sentinels are placed in the right context. As for the melding of the two Ultimate universes...I agree, it's an awkard meeting. The premiere of "Ultimate Team-Up" did mend some of the seams though, as Wolverine and Spider-Man met. Not great, but it had some memorable moments, especially the conversation between the two where Spidey wonders if he's a mutant. Hilarious ending too. Borrow it from someone. *** FUCKLEBERRY HINN - Great name. Completely agree with you on the Jean Grey/Phoenix thing. John Byrne and a few other hillbillies were responsible for undoing Jean's death, and it forever watered-down one of Marvel's finest moments. I guess it was Byrne's revenge on former Marvel Editor-In-Chief, Jim Shooter, who basically commanded he and Claremont to kill Phoenix for her sins. It is fucked-up that that story was written under duress, but it was still a brilliant landmark story. Revoking it was pure egotism. As for the idea of Sentinels being more effective as small, covert operatives...perhaps. I just don't see the need for that level of realism with the technology. Character realism, yes, but everything else could stand to lean more towards the fantastic. And how could humanoid Sentinels possibly match what Cameron did with the Terminator in terms of intensity? Audiences will see them as rip-offs, even if they sprout tentacles, shape-change, or whatever. It's safe, but it's not a draw. *** GISLEF_CROW - I don't think you're putting enough faith in the Hollywood f/x boys. I have confidence they could find the balance between presenting the immensity of the Sentinels and making them move pretty quickly. They did it with King Kong in the 30's. Can't we match that 70 years later? As for the Sentinels overwhelming the actors...of course it's a risk. That's why I suggested making the Sentinels really tough - tough enough that just one or two are a major challenge for the team - and using them somewhat sparingly. * BUZZ MAVERIK & THE COMEDIAN - Right on, my bruthas. * KIKSTAD - Good post. I agree with you about all the whiners. I hate 'em too, even when they're more or less "on my side". It's kind of the nature of the beast at a site like this, though, so I generally just ignore 'em and respond only to the more thoughtful posts. Makes me a happier man. *** THE COMEDIAN, AGAIN - All your old posts get cut if you get banned? What a bitch. If that ever happened to me, there'd be sniff sniff no more "Cormorant Classics!" Maybe I shouldn't have been so sarcastic asking Harry to fix the Talkback order earlier... As to Sentinels being lame villains in general...well, I wouldn't go that far, but I would prefer to see the Hellfire Club given the choice. Or Buzz's plot, which'd combine the two. Good point about "The Mummy Returns" and suspension of disbelief. *** SUPERNINJA - Your point about Sentinels being a rather extreme response in the X-Men movie-verse seems fair. Based on the first flick, mutants were emerging in the populace, but weren't considered a major threat yet. That's why I'd rather see a Hellfire Club plot first, followed by Sentinels in the third flick (in a world perhaps rampant with mutant terrorists). Not buyin' the need for stealthy Sentinels though. Logical, maybe, but too boring. Big, fat Sentinels can be done without destroying continuity, dammit! *** MUVYNUPE - See, you're criticizing the potential of big movie Sentinels under the presumption that they'll follow every specific from the comic (color, numbers, flying into the sun, etc.). You're jumping to conclusions and not allowing compromises. I've already suggested compromises such as: downscaled size (20 feet tall? 15?), new colors (black? deep blue?), and smaller numbers (several dozen? maybe only two dozen?). I've also suggested reasons in previous posts why immense size would be efficient against mutants. In short, I think every one of the major criticisms you have against the idea can be logically countered. Yes, the filmmakers could screw up giant Sentinels too, but no one has come close to convincing me they're inherently silly, even in Singer's established universe. Ya gotta quit assuming there's only one way things could be presented. *** KNIGHTSABERPRISS - Exactly man. Compromises are okay, I just don't want the mighty Sentinels distilled into lame Arnie clones. * UNCLEFUCKA - I wasn't trying to restrict Comicartist's speech, I was basically criticizing him for being a rude bastard. I thought it especially worth noting, considering that the subtext of the X-Men has always been tolerance. Voicing that is MY right to free speech. Authoritarian, my ass. As for nitpicking the movie before it arrives...well, welcome to the site! That's part of the reason AICN exists! But I also made the point earlier that in talking about ways Singer may or may not approach the sequel, we're talking about broader issues of translating comics. That shit is interesting to me and many others, and I don't apologize in the least for having fun discussing it. *** Thanks all, for the responses. I sleep now.
JON QUIXOTE by The Founder	May 23rd, 2001 04:32:24 AM
I don't think you came across as being anal. I do see your point of view on the large sentinals, and the debate could be endless as to which ones would be ideal for the movie. Thats why I say use both, if a kid goes in the mall then the prime sentinals would be the ideal choice to engage him/her, but the big guns should be used outdoors in the open, but then again who wouldn't mind seeing a sentinal rip off part of the roof of the mall. I was saying that the big ones would have the awe factor for the movie and it's nothing that hasn't really been on the big screen before, and as a matter of fact I asked a couple of my freinds who aren't into comics and who had seen the movie well they all thinks the big ones would be cool, and I asked them if they ever remember seeing a movie with a concept like this and they couldn't think of one, so the big guys would draw the mainstream audeince in in groves. I do get your point to boil it all down, and it is very logical.
Okay, I want Singer to push the sequel in bolder directions, b by Dave_F	May 23rd, 2001 04:55:05 AM
I still love that flick, and I've probably seen it five or six times now. It's not in the same ballpark as "Superman", but it's definitely a superhero movie to be damn proud of. The Comedian doesn't see much shelf life, and mentioned just wanting to fast forward through to the action scenes...as for me, I actually groove to a lot of the character stuff. I love that first meeting between Xavier and Magneto at the mutant conference, and their final scene together too. Classy and menacing as hell. My favorite scene in the entire flick is probably Wolverine's energetic introduction to Xavier's school ("Welcome to Mutant High...") because it really captures the magic that superheroes had for me as a kid. What else? All the stuff with Rogue and Wolverine, especially the scene on the train. As a longtime fan of the oft-derided Cyclops, I really liked what he did in his limited screentime ("Oh, and Wolverine...stay away from my girl."). Storm's scene with the dying Sentator was memorable. Liked the hinted-at romantic tension between Jean and Logan. Yeah, I liked all kinds of stuff about that movie, and most of its weaknesses I chalk up to a script that got punted around a little too much and its relatively tight budget. Given those factors, and the fierce expectations of longtime fans, I feel Singer came through in a big way. He's still a relative neophyte as a director, but between "Usual Suspects" and "X-Men", he's earned my trust at least. Doesn't mean he's off the hook regarding the sequel though. He needs to keep pushing, to challenge himself, and to find a way to make "X-Men 2" competetive with "Matrix 2", "Lord of the Rings", and "Star Wars: Episode 2". That's why I'm championing the big-ass Sentinels. The Talkbacker goin' by the name of, er, "Stormpanties" is a little harsh on Singer, but he's right about Singer needing to push himself to truly make his mark as a director. Consider what Richard Donner did with "Superman" in the late 70's, at a time when the only notable big screen superhero project was the campy 60's Batman movie. And before that, we had the mediocre "Superman" TV show with zero special effects. Before that, loads of z-grade serials. With that dubious legacy as his starting point, Donner took the bull by the horns and somehow, impossibly, made a superhero EPIC. He made a film with top-notch special effects, with human characters you could care about, and with thematic development the comics had never drawn upon. It's probably the ballsiest act of his entire career, and I'll forgive him for making shit like "Lethal Weapon 4" just because he once had that level of courage. If the rest of Hollywood had shared his courage, the first "Superman" movie could've been the launch of a golden age of superhero adaptations. Now the ball's in Singer's court (okay, Raimi's too), and the special effects are there to back just about anything these guys can imagine. I want 'em to give the rest of the world a taste of why superhero fans love the genre, and to do it without shame for the bombastic sensibilities that inform the genre. One more time, for the record: Singer has earned our trust, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be pushing him on to greater heights...
hey now now by JonQuixote	May 23rd, 2001 05:32:14 AM
I never said I hated the Sentinels, nor did I say that I couldn't buy into the concept. I just said it always seemed a little silly...much like a mutant whose evolutionary advantage is to be able to control the weather (what the fu...?). When you talk about compromises (15', 20'), that's also what I'm talking about...though my numbers were slightly different (10 & 12). But I never even meant to suggest that this change is a necessary one...I just meant that it's one where I can see the advantages (and when I say 'this change', I mean smaller robots, not humans...that seems silly to me. call'em something else!). Another thing to consider is the fact that, if this rumor is true, these 'Sentinels' could have minimal (we're talking seconds) screen time based upon the proposed script. As an example, I can see the filmmakers calling cyborg guards of the Weapon X facility 'Sentinels', watching Wolvie tear into a handful of them in a subplot, before moving on and discovering the real villian is Mister Sinister and the Mauraders or something like that. I can't see the main villian of a sequel to this sort of movie to be a bunch of Robocops...aren't sequels supposed to UP the ante. My advice: even if there is truth to the rumor, y'never know how it's going to play out in the story, so even if you think it sounds like a bad idea (which I think the proposal Harry laid out does!), it's probably too early to denounce the film as shit.
Quixote, your words have the ring of truth. by Dave_F	May 23rd, 2001 05:57:28 AM
Sorry I jumped on you earlier, but my mind was temporarily addled at finding myself in the same corner as The Comedian. I hadda lash out at someone, and I remembered that I still had you on my enemies list after your heinous denial of the ending of "Superman." Now that The Comedian's stepped over the line a bit in criticizing Singer, things are closer to normal and I don't feel the need to behead you and bathe in your blood. See how things work out? Good points about how the Sentinels might be used in a wholly unexpected way. Don't give 'em any ideas about Mr. Sinister though. I want NO influence from any X-Men stories post issue 200! No Sinister, no Stryfe, no Gambit, and I damn well better not see Cable, that hideous stain left upon the Earth by that pawn of Satan known as...Rob Liefeld! Rgghhh!! Anger...rising!
No One Is Going To Like My Best Reason For Giant Sentinels, Whic by Buzz Maverik	May 23rd, 2001 08:27:43 AM
...which is why I love 'em! Somebody comes up to me and says, "Hey, Buzz, Frank Miller does a realistic version of Daredevil." "Lemme see the issue...Oh, yeah...This is realistic. Daredevil is an Olympic level athlete, right?" "Yeah." "That's about as good as human can realistically get, right?" "Yeah." "Then, how's he jumping off this building onto this one, springing a hundred feet in the air, grabbing that flagpole and shooting up to the roof. Miller doesn't even let him use his billy club rope." And in their own way MOVIES ARE FAR LESS REALISTIC THAN COMICS. Stand under a girls window with Peter Gabriel playing on a boom box and your best buddy, smoking a cigarette and sans clothes, will stick his head out and say, "Turn that shit down, I'm trying to get laid in here." I agree with whoever said that Singer was using the realism ploy as a way to avoid saying the producers and studio were stingy with the budget. Hopefully, they'll give him more money and he'll feel freer to use some imagination ("Storm forgot that she could fly in the first movie because the uh...uh....Mr. Shadow...no, the Sinister King...no, The Shadow King had given her and everybody else amnesia about her flying ability"). All this realism crap is a dodge and cop out for the small budget. Singer did an amazing thing with what little he was given; however, since the movie was a hit that way, I doubt that he or the producers (except De Santo) will bother to understand the X-MEN better and probably have convinced themselves that they invented them. We don't have to make excuses for them or wholeheartedly buy their bullshit. As for the Sentinels as characters, I love the property damage. A booming, mechanical voice says, "PREPARE YOURSELF, MUTANT..." a giant purple hand comes through the wall of the high rise apartment and that weird billboard sized face follows..."THE SENTINELS LIVE!" Here's the irony, the Sentinels are bigger fucking menaces than the most anti-social, dangerous mutant. There's Singer's metaphor, if he has to have one to justify making a comic book movie. Authority can be more dangerous than what it is trying to control. By the way, I always thought the Sentinels were only around 20 to 25 feet tall, except for Master Mold. I realize that these days that to get hired to draw comics you must be able to prove you have no sense of perspective or anatomy or the ability to draw the same character or body part the same size twice but...
Batman and Robin was nuts too by JonQuixote	May 23rd, 2001 08:52:53 AM
Crazy comic book science, whacked out physics, implausable plot, goofy characters...so why isn't it hailed as the greatest comic book movie of all time? I think the answer is that what works in the visual medium that is comics sometimes cannot translate into the visual medium that is film. It's a lot easier to visualize a man jumping around rooftops when all you're seeing is snapshots, than it is to see it in full motion. Case in point: The Batarang. It made a hell of a lot more sense for Tim Burton to turn it into a grappling gun than to have Bruce toss a Bat-shaped hook onto the roof of a 40 story building. I don't think X-Men was grounded because of budgetary constraints, I think it was grounded because it is high concept source material that would probably scare away a good portion of the audience, or at least not gain the 'new' fans it needed in order to become a hit. Besides, you can do a pretty good movie for $75 million dollars, and other than the loss of the Beast, I didn't feel X-Men skimped all that much. The fact that the Sentinels are bigger menaces than the X-Men is not an obscure example of irony...but I don't think they need to be the size of an apartment building in order to illustrate that. I'm not saying that they can't be, but rather that it's not necessary, or even preferential.
and is it just me... by JonQuixote	May 23rd, 2001 08:54:06 AM
or are other people still having problems with the site. It takes me three, four, sometimes more times to load a page or make a successful post. Frustrating!
Cormorant response... by muvynupe	May 23rd, 2001 09:09:30 AM
Thanks for taking the time to respond in such a comprehensive fashion... Just a few quick points. My problem with the Classic Sentinels has less to do with their merit as cinematic villains as their merit as characters period. I brought up the examples from comic continuity to illustrate how lame the Sentinels have been over the years. As stated before, Master Mold and Nimrod (and Bastion too for that matter) generated a sense of menace or dread or pathos because they were fully realized individual characters that had motivations that can resonate with a human audience. Master Mold's duplicitousness, Nimrod's emerging conscience, Bastion's limitless cruelty are artistically compelling character traits. The rest of the Sentinels, whether big, small, tackily-colored or uber-cool-looking are just mindless drones. It's the difference between the agents and the sentinel robots in the Matrix. Which were scarier to you? Please note, the sentinels in Matrix did not kill ANYONE. Obviously, the Sentinels in X-Men won't kill any of the leads (a feat that has never been seen in "real" continuity either, BTW). So then you have a bunch of big, dumb set pieces. I welcome the chance to introduce villainous elements that mean something to the story. Incidentally, I think that was the biggest problem with the first movie (outside of Halle Berry). Did Mystique or Sabretooth have a line that advanced the plot at all? But I digress. Sentinels were creepiest in the "Days of Future Past" story thread, but that was because they actually accomplished their mission. The graveyard panels, Storm taking the stake through the back, Wolvie getting toasted are chilling images (Thanks, Byrne). However, since they are going to lose spectacularly, it seems like a waste to develop big, dumb robots instead of some Primes that could present some interesting dramatic conflict.
Here's what I hoping for the sequel: by superninja	May 23rd, 2001 09:20:32 AM
1) No over-the-top CGI. This is what I liked about the 1st film. Mr. Singer, please keep it as an enhancement and not a set piece. 2) Continuation of the characterization that took place in the first film. The Logan/Jean/Scott triangle, Jean's powers, Storm sliding into her "goddess persona" (I hear they're going to build some sexual tension between her and Logan. $10 and a Hot Pocket on her asking him to train her in hand-to-hand), escalaction of the mutant hysteria and MORE BAD MUTANTS. I would like to see Pyro from the first film (and some of the others) turn against the X-Men because they don't jive with Xavier's beliefs. Also, their powers should be bumped up a notch -- they should have more control. 2) Costumes with more detail. Even more little touches that set them apart. Personally, I would like to see the Wolverine costume lose the sleeves -- no need to hide Mr. Jackman's arms from his drooling female fanbase ;), and it would be a nice nod to the comics costume. 3) Please, Singer, stop hiding Halle Berry's body. Show some skin, like the OG Storm. Give her some better lines and make her exotic again. 4) No more wrestlers. 5) To retiterate, if they go with the Sentinels...NO GIANT SENTINEL AT THE END OF THE MOVIE!!!
Want A Job Where You Can Goof Off On Talkbacks All Day? Bounty H by Buzz Maverik	May 23rd, 2001 02:44:14 PM
...whereas the first two SUPERMAN movies, BATMAN and sorta BATMAN RETURNS were quality nuts. Quality nuts, now that's a great phrase. Bryan Singer did a fine job on the first movie, but I maintain that we have to watch him. The thing he has in common with Schumacher is that he really does not have an appreciation for the source material. Now, I think that a director with too much appreciation for comics would be a disaster (Kevin Smith should never do a superhero movie), but Singer could go either way, depending on who he's working with. I have heard that Tom De Santo is the unsung hero of the first X-MEN. Personally, I'd rather see someone like Barry Levinson take over, but that's just me because I happen to know Singer comes from a rather conservative USC class (not politically, numbnutses, I just mean you aren't going to see anything too bold or original from a USC grad around his age, even though they do make good movies). HEY, CORMORANT -- I was thinking about what you said about Wolvie and the Beast not being able to take down a nest of proto-Sentinels alone and I think you're right. So here's what would happen: before the Beast frees Wolvie, he finds a communicator that puts him in touch with the X-Men. They decide to head to the rescue in the Blackbird. Cyclops asks Storm if her newly discovered POWERS OF FLIGHT (don't tell me the production didn't pinch pennies and wasn't copping out, J.Q.) can get her to the Great White North Faster. She says she can ride the jet stream. So it's Wolvie, the Beast and Storm who wipe out the Canuck-Sentinels. See, suits, am I a speedy rewrite man or what?
So what? by desslok	May 23rd, 2001 03:20:17 PM
It's not like the first one was a work of art or anything. As soon as the franchise is dead, the better.
Look, you people know where the suits got this concept from righ by axelfoley	May 23rd, 2001 04:17:11 PM
I'll tell you. Any of yous remember that defunct UPN show "The Sentinel", with these two cops, one a long greasy haired wiseass fresh from NYC, the other a serious-faced poor man's Paul Gross. Thing is, this robot concept's been done before, but what baffles me is that even though "The Sentinel" didn't work out, why would the suits seek inspiration from it to change the infamous X-bots into actual fucking people? Simple. Who else mentioned this on this board. Exactly, who actually remembers the show. Were any of you talkbackers one of the 17 people that saw it. THAT's probably what Fox is banking on. Taking an irrelevanct concept no one cares about, and rehashing it into a blatant and unapologetically heinous raping of fanboy comic book literature. You'll see what I'm saying when you see those Lee Major-looking Sentinel action figures at your local Wal-Mart come 2003.
Have some Faith by Buffman	May 23rd, 2001 04:29:38 PM
C'mnon, you gotta have a little optimism here. You have to admit that after seeing how the last couple of Batman sequels turned out (I shudder at the thought) and after that whole horrible Spawn disaster, you were all expecting the worst from X-Men. There seemed like no way they could make it a seriously entertaining stand-alone movie and also keep with most of the original themes. But they did, and you loved it. I knew some hardcore X-ers who swore off over even checking out the movie, even AFTER the trailer was released, but they ended up loving it. You just have to have hope that they'll pull it all together, and not get bent out of shape over some rumors (well except Harry- He can get bent all he wants because his opinions are regarded my the producing community and might make a difference). We'll always have expectations failed and there'll always be pleasant surprises. Let's wait until some more info rolls in on this one to start rushing to judgement.
Hey Cormorant! And to the rest of you as well. by KnightsaberPriss	May 23rd, 2001 04:46:40 PM
< KNIGHTSABERPRISS - Exactly man. Compromises are okay, I just don't want the mighty Sentinels distilled into lame Arnie clones. > Actually I'm a lady, not a man, but I will let that one slide there dude! ;O) Anyway I totally agree with your post. And what a lengthy post it was! It should probably go diwn in Aint It Cool News history as one of the longest posts on the boards. But on to what I really wanted to say. I believe that for some odd reason Fox is being anbivalent to the X - Men movie project. For whatever reason i have no clue. It seems weird that the first movie makes all this money yet they do not want a freakingly hge budget for the second one. I think this franchise really earned the right to have a bigger budget. Go on Fox. Take some risks here. I mean that's what buisness is all about. I mean as I have stated before the Sentinels don't need to be freakishly huge. I mean I think it would be much cooler to see 20 foot grotesque looking mechanical non human robots with absolutely 0% conscious crashing through brick walls than human looking Prime Sentinels chasing after a few mutants like the T 1000. If they use that whole Prime Sentinel thing maybe Arnold should play Beast. I mean the freakishly bizarre robot look was the appeal of the Sentinels. I believe in the early comics they weren't any taller than 20 feet. I mean the only Sentinel that should be like 60 feet is Master Mold. Now that would make an interesting plot twist when he tirns against the very ones he's been created to protect. I mean kind of similar to the cartoon of the early 90's. I wholeheartedly believe that Prime Sentinels were and still are an unoriginal concept inspired by T2. I know if the film makers were to read these they'd say "Well you wanted us to use stuff from the comc books and here you go. But now you hate us for it. We're only giving you what you wanted for the first movie." If that's the case then the fans really did dispise the whole Zero Tolerance execution. I mean it was a good idea. It just wasn't executed very well in the comics at all. To me it wreaked with unoriginality. Please do us all a favor Fix execs and don't put human SEtinels in the film. Really use a crack design artist to nail down the look of small 20 or even 15 foot Sentinels in the movie that are 100 % automatons. Just think what would lookcooler crashing through a brick wall: A.) Some super powered fleshy thing or B.) A nigh unstoppable (But also not impossible to beat)bizarrely grotesque looking automaton. Ian Mc Kellan as Magneto would be able to do something with his magnetic powers as well like crush them into tin foil balls with a gesture too. Just think how cool that would look. What do you say?
I SWARE TO FUCKING GOD IF ONE MORE RAT BASTARD METIONS OPERATION by KnyghtAlmighty	May 23rd, 2001 05:10:59 PM

Operation Zero Tolerance by JonQuixote	May 23rd, 2001 06:22:34 PM
I just wanna see the splatter.
Buzz, your plot amendment rings with MESSIANIC RIGHTEOUSNESS! by Dave_F	May 23rd, 2001 06:42:23 PM
What's cool about the first movie is that some of the cool powers we didn't see (Storm in flight, Jean using her powers effectively, Cyclops unleashed, etc.) can be excused away by the inexperience of the team. I see their assault on Magneto as their first major field work, and by the second film, some time will have elapsed and we'll be ready to accept that they've honed their abilities. Yes, Storm should be doing some flying, despite Singer's determined stance against flight in many an interview. Now that audiences have bought into the idea of mutants, it's okay to get a little more "out there", to get a little more..."quality nuts." Check out the sixth issue of "Ultimate X-Men" to see a very cool scene of Storm turning Sentinels into scrap. I don't care if you hate "Ultimate" on general principal, it's still a kick-ass moment. Basically, she's wisely hiding out from the Sentinels and just impaling them with lightning from the skies, one after another after another. Looks fantastic, and I love the idea of her being smart enough to do it from a distance. Up close, the Sentinels should be really, really dangerous, but plenty of the X-Men have exceptional ranged attack abilities that should be used for maximum effect. As for Beast and Wolverine at least holding their own against a Sentinel, I envision a scene with Wolverine slashing wildly at a Sentinel's neck, so violently that its head is lolling sideways, held to its body only by a few cables and scraps of metal. As its power reserves dwindle, the Sentinel manages to raise one of its arms, making a last ditch attempt to incinerate Wolvie with its palm blaster. Just as the blaster's charging, the Beast vaults onto the screen, springboarding off the Sentinel's head and decapitating the damned thing in the process! It tumbles lifeless to the ground, and the thrill audiences will get will be comparable to the thrill of seeing that big Imperial Walker trip and die in "Empire Strikes Back." Yeah, that's right, none of you fellas have convinced me that AT-AT's aren't a perfect example of giant robots as credible threats. Hoth was no more bizarre than the snowy wastelands of Siberia, so I don't see the argument that the Walkers only worked because of the crazy-ass fantasy universe of "Star Wars." The planet was their immediate environment, and they looked damn real and damn formidable tromping around on it. They worked in the forests of Endor, too, and they'd work in a city just as well. Considering the fact that AICN does carry at least some weight among filmmakers (witness the "Princess Mononoke" and webshooter victories I posted about earlier), I'd love to think that some of Singer's crew might read these posts and actually be influenced by them. Faith and optimism are all well and good, but there's nothing wrong with puttin' a little heat on Singer and company...
After a long hard day at work, nothing beats putting on a pair o by Village Idiot	May 23rd, 2001 07:11:32 PM
Cormorant Classics. Ask for them by name.
Sorry 'bout that gender confusion, SaberknightPriss! by Dave_F	May 23rd, 2001 07:34:47 PM
If it makes you feel any better, my own gender was called into question by Comicartist earlier in this Talkback. Seems that when I called him on using an offensive slur, I was revealing my "female like sensibilities." Who knew? Anyway, I've been trying to regain my manhood for the rest of the Talkback, promoting manly giant robots and overwhelming folks with posts so long, they must surely speak to my virility! Freudian B.S. aside, thanks for the support. Good to see a few Talkbackers out there with at least the insight to entertain some riskier ideas. There're a couple of directors, guys name of Lucas, Spielberg, Cameron, and the Wachowskis, and somehow they never let anyone tell them what would and wouldn't work onscreen. They even seem to've reaped a few rewards here and there for their efforts. Now how's that motto go? "He who dares, wins." That's what I'm talkin' about!
not "Human" sentinels by Endeavor	May 23rd, 2001 09:44:38 PM
I have not been able to read all the replies to this post so in case somebody already mentioned this I'm sorry for being repetitive: I have heard of this possibility before, that the Sentinels would not be the gigantic robots everybody is familiar with. Something a lot of you might not know, maybe Harry doesn
Thanks, Cormorant. For Great Beast Vs. Sentinel Battles... by Buzz Maverik	May 23rd, 2001 10:19:35 PM
...everybody treat yourself to a copy of X-MEN VISIONARIES: NEAL ADAMS. A non-mutated Beast kicked major metal ass. I don't read X-MEN comics any more, but what I remember about the Beast from my favorite comics as a kid was that he was hyper, as well as brilliant and witty. Beast was always in the thick of the fight in those Neal Adams issues (I got 'em in reprint in GIANT SIZED X-MEN 2 back in '75) and when he was trying to get in the Avengers because Steve Engelhart wrote those issues and he loved the Beast. He also wrote the Beast's solo book in AMAZING ADVENTURES, where Hank worked at Brand Corporation and experimented on himself and became blue and furry and met Patsy Walker which lead her to following him to the Avengers mansion and blackmailing him into taking her on a mission into Brand Headquarters where the Avengers had their second meeting with the Squadron Supreme and Patsy ended up with Cap and Iron Man and they found the Cat's old costume and Patsy became the Hellcat. See, the Brand had sicked their mercs on the Beast and Cap was after the mercs because he'd saved Roxxon Oil's president Hugh Jones from the original Serpent Society when he was the Nomad, and he was trailing one of the mercs and Brand and Roxxon had merged. God, it was cool being 11.
BUZZ MAVERIK by The Founder	May 24th, 2001 07:08:57 AM
Have to agree with you totally on your post. I to feel that Singer is a near good director, but we aint going to get anything we've never seen before or something over the top out of him. I thought I was the only that thought Barry Levinson would done a good job with the xmen. I think the Wachowski's would have done an excellant job with the material as well, and I know some of you feel like their sh*t, but the Matrix was great and look what they did with 60 mil.I also heard some of you saying they ripped off material from The Invisables(i think thats the right comic)and since i'm not familiar with it I can't comment, but if they did it seemed they did a great job. Everyone has their opinions of Lucas, Cameron, and Speilberg, but I'm willing to bet they also would have made a kick ass X-men flick.
Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Zero Tolerance! There I said it again! by KnightsaberPriss	May 24th, 2001 02:09:23 PM
First my gender and now my name Cormorant! Blows off the head of a Prime Sentinel Well it looks like care of JonQuixote another person has blown their brains out because of the very mention of the Zero Tolerance story arc that the X - Men sequel will wreak of I bet. (Ahem Nighty night KnyghtAlmighty.)
well its done i've blown my brains out. thank you jon quixote fo by KnyghtAlmighty	May 24th, 2001 02:40:01 PM

I was...err...trying to be ironic in misstyping your name, Knigh by Dave_F	May 24th, 2001 05:26:14 PM
Are ya buyin' it? She's not buyin' it. Actually, I think I was just punchy from having been up for 24 hours+. What's sad is that I even kinda like "Bubblegum Crisis", and most anime ain't my bag. Sorry, man. Oops! Hey, is anyone even here anymore? HELLLLLOOOOOOO!!!! ECHO!!! echo echo echo Cool, the Talkback's deserted. In that case, I declare my side the winner of the Sentinel debate. Big Sentinels it is. A hunnert and fiddy feet tall, with big, robotic beer guts. BIG SENTINELS 4EVER!!! They're dreamy.
Unc, you still here? by Dave_F	May 27th, 2001 03:23:37 PM
Okay, the term "hate speech" has certainly been hauled out by overzealous politicians looking to hack away at free speech and make an easy name for themselves, but if you can de-politicize the term for a moment, you'll see that it's just a phrase to describe written or verbal attacks on minority groups. In and of itself, the word is a neutral description, and I think I used it appropriately. You presume that I'm getting politically correct, and starting down that slippery Lieberman-esque slope to restricting freedom of speech, but nothing could be further from the truth. I support the ACLU. I believe in the absolute right of free speech. I believe that eroding it just a little erodes the core completely. If you go back and re-read my posts to Comicartist, you'll see that I was pissed off, but I never called for him to be banned. In fact, I think I countered his hate-speech in very appropriate ways - trying to make him understand why his use of the word "faggot" was offensive, pointing out the irony of an X-Men fan's use of a slur, and even politely requesting that he think before he posts such slurs ("...I'm asking you to be less brazen about using the word.") Unc, I fully appreciate the danger of restricting freedom of speech, but I don't think I touched on anything of the kind. Just for fun, while I was typing this post, I went by the ACLU's website to see how they approached hate speech. Naturally, they feel that prohibiting it in any way is the wrong approach. What policies do they support? In a briefing on campus hate-speech in particular, they write, "The ACLU believes that the best way to combat hate speech on campus is through an educational approach that includes counter-speech, workshops on bigotry and its role in American and world history, and real -- not superficial -- institutional change." They also call for campus administrators to, "...speak out loudly and clearly against expressions of racist, sexist, homophobic and other bias, and react promptly and firmly to acts of discriminatory harassment." Not to toot my own horn, but I'd wager that the ACLU, the organization at the forefront of free speech, would approve of my posts. Well...maybe not some of the sarcasm, but my general approach is pretty much what they promote. In short, I think I was warranted in using the term "hate speech" and taking Comicartist to task. I can't be held responsible for Lieberman and others taking a neutral, descriptive term and making it synonymous with restricting freedom of speech. Unc, you wrote in a previous post, "If you criticize someone for voicing their flawed opinion, you are an authoritarian bastard." I couldn't disagree more. Since when does criticism equal authoritarianism? Talkbacks are essentially a public debate, and without criticism and counter-responses, there's no healthy discussion of ideas. This is free speech at its most unhindered! Comicartist and I probably didn't change each others' opinions, but at least we were responding to each other, and who's right and who's wrong is up to the rest of the Talkbackers to decide. No fascism, just good ol' free speech. It's funny, but the current backlash against political correctness seems to have some people thinking that it's wrong to even challenge folks like Comicartist, or to be offended by a slur. I think that backlash is almost as dangerous as political correctness itself.
Uncle F, you ignorant slut! by Dave_F	Jun 6th, 2001 03:40:16 AM
Fair enough ;)
Batman by Deadite	Jun 17th, 2001 04:25:44 AM
Fox should rember what happened to Batman the inogant F*cks
Nix sentinels, enter Nimrod by woodenman	Jul 20th, 2001 11:51:22 AM
If they are actually stupid enough to try to introduce human sentinels, then a robot Nimrod would surely be better. Sure his shape changing ability is kinda like T2. Get rid of his shape changing abitility and he would still be ultra cool. In fact, the brotherhood and the X-Men may have to join forces to stop him.

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X-MEN 2 headed into the toilet' It's getting scary!

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