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Keep Watching That Dune Site...

Novel by Ronabo	Jun 10th, 2000 07:20:23 AM
The more I hear about the Sci-Fi series makes me want to try and read the book again. The last time I tried to get through the damn thing was almost 15 years ago and I never made it. I wonder if there will be a novel of the series? Well anyways I like the Lynch movie, but I prefer the 4 hour version that the Sci-Fi channel shows every once and awhile. Call me whatever you want, but you will agree with me that the score kicks ass.
Lynchs version, still the best! by JohnnyB	Jun 10th, 2000 08:03:06 AM
I know there is a three hour cut of the original Dune movie, but wouldnt it be better to show David Lynchs first cut - 5 hours worth - than do a new tv movie?
I'm reading Dune right now, almost done, and. . . by Zeno	Jun 10th, 2000 10:14:27 AM
I have just a couple of problems. First of all, I'm having a hard time getting Jurgen Prochnow and Kenneth McMillan, et. al., out of my head while I'm reading. Get out of my head Dean Stockwell! And secondly, The Fremen: What a drag! Annoying fanatics. Maybe this new movie will bring it to life for me.
Lynchs version, still the best! by Entil`Zha	Jun 10th, 2000 11:38:00 AM
You Said.... "I know there is a three hour cut of the original Dune movie, but wouldnt it be better to show David Lynchs first cut - 5 hours worth - than do a new tv movie?" AFAIK there is only the extra long cable version, there was an interview with lynch a few years ago and he said the rumored 5 hour version does not exist, (if it does i'd like to see it) And as for the extra long verison, Lynch hates it, Thats why he had his name removed from it, If you watch the long version the directors name is listed as Alan Smithee.. A Pseudonym for directors who don't want their name on the film.
Allah and Feyd by Sir Mordred	Jun 10th, 2000 01:56:51 PM
This is the two final scenes blended into one. It goes straight from when Allah confronts Shaddam to Paul's fight with Feyd. My question is for the Leto picture. The one where he has this kid by the arm. It doesn't look like the actor that plays Paul, but it reminds me of Paul as a younger child. Does anyone know who that is?
Go for the pics, stay for the trailer by Orange Bat	Jun 11th, 2000 12:58:00 AM
The trailer seems KEWL!! NOW I am officailly excited about the mini-series!! I like the look and the music. I just hope I'm NOT disappointed!!
One more thing by Orange Bat	Jun 11th, 2000 12:59:39 AM
Will this thing be widescreened? The trailer was...
The one thing by Sir Mordred	Jun 11th, 2000 02:29:59 AM
I hope it is in widescreen. That would just make it much cooler. However, all of the pictures at the site are in teevee dimensions. I think these are scenes from the movie, so it probably won't be in widescreen. As for comparisons between the two Dunes, I honestly couldn't tell you whether the Atredies clan had dark hair or blonde hair, but I already prefer the black haired Lychers to the new blonde family. As for the Fremen, I don't know what anyone else got from this, but even with both movies populated by white Europeans, I always pictured the Fremen as a MidEastern/Arabian type people.
A brief book review by Zeno Citium of the recently read novel Du by Zeno	Jun 11th, 2000 06:53:17 PM
Synopsis (with mediocre witticisms): Feudalism is alive and well in the future, when Paul Atreides, kind of a twerp, follows his father, benevolent dictator Duke "Dead Meat-o" Leto to the desert planet Dune. Once there, a competing autocratic ruler, Baron Harkonen, retakes the planet (it used to be his) and kills the Duke, for forcing Paul and his pseudo-magical mother to make a run for it into the desert. Oh yes, and Paul has magical powers too. Soon they meet up with the disenfranchised desert natives of the planet, called the Palestin ...ur, Fremen, for whom Paul fulfills their wacky prophecy. All of this would be inconsequencial if it wasn't for the fact that the planet's leading export is a psuedo-religious hallucinagen called peyot ...ur, Spice. Anyway, Paul is lucky enough to be gifted with a spice-enhanced precognition, but unfortunately, his visions depend on things happening a certain way. In other words, his visions are pretty useless, except to freak him out from time to time. Eventually, Paul and his buddies retake the planet, to insert their own dictatorship, only this time the regime will have the sound political foundation of a fanatical religion backing it up. Overt message: Destiny weighs heavy on those destined for greatness. Latent message: People who are born magical should run things (elitism). What I liked: Good political intrigue. Pretty good at creating another world, complete with its own vocabulary, etc. Interesting internal struggle within Paul not to be Jesus (or Moses, what have you, etc.) This is Dune; I'm supposed to like it, right? (Arthur C. Clarke says so.) What I did not like: The characters were pretty inaccesible, despite the fact that the readers are privy to their every thought. (Possible exception: Paul's sister Alia, a grown woman in the body of a toddler). I don't like deserts in real life, don't like reading about them either. No sense of humor in the entire book, except for the bit in the appendix on religion (a pretty funny little satire on organized religion). Baron Harkonen is very fat and gay, so naturally he's evil. Where are all the black people at? Best moments: Paul convincing old friend Gurney that his mother did not betray the Duke, and Paul's fight with Jamis and Feyd (not Sting). Worst moment: Paul's girlfriend sqeezing "magic juices" into his mother while her mouth is wrapped around a spout (WTF?), and learning that circumcision is still practiced in the future. And finally, the mandatory Joel Siegel-esque Oscar Blurb: "On Dune, there's an oasis in the desert, and it's called OSCAR!"
Fremen WERE ARABS! by Dracolith	Jun 11th, 2000 11:58:57 PM

Fremen WERE ARABS! by Dracolith	Jun 12th, 2000 12:08:44 AM
If you bother reading on in the series(all seven, the book of the son of herbert should be burned) they discuss the history of the fremen. Also, after doing some research in a 198-'s psychology mag interview, i found that that's where Herbert got it. He spoke of the lingual drift from arabic he frabricated into chakobsa, the language of the fremen. i believe it's Psychology today, october, 1984. obviously, the koran had been lost or mangled inthe fremen culture, but allah( "The god" in arabic), has been sperimposed over shai-hulud, the beautiful toothed worms of arakis. I don't know what to think about this production. I would feel safer if Ridley Scott was back on the project sans giger's worm design. but i must look to the sunny side of the sandtrout. at least Jordowsky cannot return to molest the legacy of herbert. His son does it well enough. MMMMMMM........... SHAI HULUD.
Allan Smithee by Sceleratos	Jun 12th, 2000 01:01:43 AM
Good Pick up on the Alan Smithee, thing. I saw the extended version(on Scifi) and I was shocked that Lynch had cast the movie off(By Using Smithee)But I guess that was only the extended version...right?
ZENO... by Jacob Corbin	Jun 12th, 2000 10:52:58 AM
Frank Herbert wasn't saying that the elite should run things...in fact, he believed the EXACT OPPOSITE. He makes it clear in DUNE that if Paul should win, the Fremen will go on a kill-crazy religious rampage across the galaxy. DUNE MESSIAH, the first sequel, is actually about Paul dealing with the consequences of his actions. (This is why so many people hate that book...it completely turns the apparent message of the first book on its head.) Herbert said in numerous interviews that the point of the DUNE series was to subvert and destroy the idea of a "hero" or messiah-figure, because such people--even if they themselves are good--inevitably cause misery and death to be inflicted in their name. Paul and the Fremen are not meant to be admired (though neither are the Baron or the Emperor, to be sure).
I want my 'THOPTERS!!! by flanner	Jun 12th, 2000 05:18:21 PM
The one real letdown for me in Lynch's movie were the ornithopters- they were no where near as interesting as they are described in the book. Hopfully the miniseries producers will give us some CGI flappers that we can swoon rather than cringe at.
I ...can't ...breathe!!! by flanner	Jun 12th, 2000 05:30:17 PM
Has anyone yet figured out where the Oxygen on Arrakis is supposed to come from? It's anything but verdant, and I see only half the carbon cycle here. Are the worms Carbon Dioxide breathers or what? Or does the Guild drop off several gigatons of air every year?
Nice catch by Sir Mordred	Jun 12th, 2000 08:20:59 PM
Good job flanner, I guess no one else has thought of that yet. It would have to be the worms, there's nothing else. Unless the spice. . .
Jacob Corbin, you dirty facist. by Zeno	Jun 12th, 2000 08:41:57 PM
Just kidding, trying to get your attention. Feel free to malign me in the subject line of your next post. Thank you for your feedback. Unfortunately, I don't have the benefit of Mr. Herbert's comments on his work for any evaluation on my part, only the work itself and my feeble analysis skills. Nevertheless, your points are well taken. Regarding any underlying elitism of Dune, sui generis (Must I read supplemental material (sequels) to appraise a book fairly? Dune was presented to me as a single book when I bought it.): The character of Paul is presented as the novel's main protagonist. The struggle he undergoes throughout the book is for the sake of the denoument: his triumph (domination) at the end. Why? His only qualifications for leadership seem to be lineage and some sort of nebulous and unearned "gift." What's strange is that I sensed no real charisma coming from his character, a charisma which might explain his rise to power. (Incidentally, I got the impression that Paul wasn't so much afraid of winning, just winning the wrong way (the way which would start the jihad).) These factors combined to create a sense of unease at the end of the book. Perhaps I am underestimating Herbert and the unease I felt was actually by design. Regardless, I look forward to any additional comments you (or anyone else) may have, and perhaps, on your recommendation, I will give the next book in the series a read.
Zeno, your mother wears combat boots! by Jacob Corbin	Jun 12th, 2000 09:41:38 PM
I agree with you that the first book seems to support the idea that Paul is elevated or special somehow (of course, in a neo-feudal society, practically everyone in his position would feel this way...and genetically speaking, he is special, as the only male human able to drink the "Water of Life"). But obviously he is not a morally superior being, though perhaps better than the alternative. At any rate, DUNE was not meant to be a complete novel...the individual parts of the first two or three novels were actually serialized (notice the act divisions every hundred pages or so) as novellas in the GALAXY science fiction magazine in the late '60's. The story, as originally written, was never meant to definitively end at the close of the first volume. Opinions as to the relative quality of the sequels differ (the second, at least, is necessary, because it does bring the story of Paul Atreides to an appropriate close). For myself, I found the third book largely tedious--probably because it focused so much on super-human children, a theme which I've never really cared for. I found the fourth book to be the best of the series, both plot-wise and philosophically: it deserves the adjective "profound" most out of all Herbert's writing. The fifth and sixth books are of a piece, sort of like the first two...if you don't like book 5, don't start the other (conversely, if you did like book 5, by all means finish the last book). I found them to be far too obscurantist (characters will suddenly and cold-bloodedly kill other characters over an apparently poor response in a philosophical argument) and talky, but there were also some wonderfully-written segments and some truly demented ideas percolating through. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Well that settles it, I'm reading the next one. by Zeno	Jun 12th, 2000 10:12:48 PM
Unfortunately, it has to get in the back of the line of several other books. On a tangent, I was a little surprised that it didn't rain at the end of the book like it did in the Lynch movie. I have no doubt that that will come later. Aside from that and the actors involved in the movie, the film doesn't really stand out in my mind. Aside from stylistic license (heavy duty, from what little I recall) did Lynch incorporate any thematic changes to the movie? (I seemed to remember that Kyle Mclaughlin also seemed to have a charisma deficit, though he tried. He gave more speeches than Paul-in-the-book does.)
The DUNE movie... by Jacob Corbin	Jun 13th, 2000 02:07:44 AM
The problem with the movie was that Lynch--in keeping with his 1960s upbringing--mistook one element of the book, namely the hallucenogenic nature of the spice, for its entirety, completely ignoring the political and ecological subtext. (I remember thinking for the longest time before I read the book that DUNE was a science-fiction story about acid.) Lynch was much more concerned about capturing Herbert's style--which he did a decent job of, except for that goddamn pustulating jet-powered Baron--than the substance of the story. And when you're trying to make a two, three, four-hour long epic, style alone just ain't gonna cut it. I hope the new miniseries does a better job (it damn well better, because the budget on that thing isn't going to support much in the way of visual flair).
worms by Dracolith	Jun 13th, 2000 11:47:15 PM
for those who don't know, ornithopters are heavier than air craft that manage to fly by flapping its wings. to answer some people's questions, 1. Arrakis is terraformed withim twenty years. fremen go soft. Stillsuits are made without any filters above the neck. 2. spice is NOT a hallucinogenic. It is a drug that induces telepathy and genetic memory ( the thoughts, memories, and personalites of all your ancestors up to when they concieved) 3. worms do produce the o2 in the atmosphere. when arrakis is terraformed, they had to plant a butload of foliage to take Shai hulud's place. 4. sheep do not exist on arakis. MAUD'DIB!
No freakin sound weapons please by DoobyDoo	Jun 13th, 2000 11:53:11 PM
I know there will be some artistic license taken for this miniseries, but please not the amount of butchering done in the movie. Where did they get those stupid sound weapons and why did they almost completely cut out the crysknives? The movie LOOKED beautiful, but the interpretation certainly wasn't that attractive. I will be very curious to see how the Sardaukar will look in this new miniseries. Hopefully no radiation suits like the movie.
Still suits by john2for2	Jun 14th, 2000 06:23:30 AM
But they did have parts above the neck on thier still suit. They had a forhead strap to collect sweat.
Duncan Idaho by john2for2	Jun 14th, 2000 06:26:26 AM
Once again it appears that duncan has been overlooked in film adaptation. Its a shame because he plays such a great part in the books.
No-Win Situation by SmoothTex	Jun 14th, 2000 01:38:34 PM
No matter what happens, someone's gonna be disappointed here. A lot of the book was internal action and background political intrigue and that's really hard to film. That's why there's never gonna be a faithful adaptation of The Scarlet Letter (or if there is, it'll be boring). You have to remember that this is a big production and that Sci-Fi is gonna have to target the widest possible audience in order to break even on this deal. People who don't have any idea what Shai Hulud is or what CHOAM or the Landsraad is would be lost without that convenient back-of-the-book glossary that is in every copy of the novel Dune. That means they're gonna have to dumb it down for the layperson. Hard-core Dune fans will be disappointed by this because the explanations will take up airtime that could be devoted to faithfully portraying the material. What I'm saying is, I'm preparing myself by lowering my expectations regarding a "chapter and verse" version of Dune. I just hope that, in the miniseries, there is acting and not

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