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A brief Report on the future of THE MATRIX

by darthpsychotic	Mar 13th, 2000 12:38:35 PM
a matrix prequel + animae + akira = HELL YES!!
Modern myth by Diceman	Mar 13th, 2000 12:39:32 PM
Matrix has the ability to be something very cool, on the scale of a modern myth. The Wachowskis are awesome story tellers,bringing anime style to life, which is why the prequel makes sense. Hell this would be a great series idea, make it limited like Rougnecks: Starship Troopers, with a defined story arc and this could be really amazing. I can;t see one prequel being enough to tell the whole story.....
First... again!! by se7en-x2000	Mar 13th, 2000 12:41:27 PM
What is peoples fascination with anime? the medium sucks, the cartoons suck, with the big wobbly moving eyes and the sad ass animation. it looks like dr katz on acid, I hate it and fucking up the matrix like that would be a sad sad thing. hell why don't we just do a fritz the cat matrix cartoon? Or maybe a saturday morning spiderman cartoon? jesus! nuff said.
THIS ROCKS!!!! by rollergirl	Mar 13th, 2000 12:47:08 PM
This might be the best news of today
Ohmy... by carlos	Mar 13th, 2000 12:47:12 PM
Look I made a hat!
not a good idea by Scoobysnak	Mar 13th, 2000 01:00:51 PM
I don't think a matrix cartoon is a good idea Know what i'm saying
Matrix is WAAAYYYYY overnlown by 20th Century Fox	Mar 13th, 2000 01:02:51 PM
Yeah I liked the matrix. But when i hear terms like: Padrgim Shift, or Mordern Myth I just want to scream...Yes Its a good flim but its the deep textured awakeing that some people think it is. Can the sequels make that come true possibly but lets wait and see. Remeber everyone was saying the same things about ROBOCOP
Jet Li by Monster Rain	Mar 13th, 2000 01:03:36 PM
I've heard similar buzzings that he would be cast as the guy who trained Morpheus. Although I seem to recall that person being spoken of posthumously in the film. Personally, I'd like to see Jet as a villain. Some kind of "super-agent" or something. Another rumor I heard was part II would feature a car chase with the agents "jumping" from car to car. On paper, that idea sounds pretty flabby, but could work visually.
Not convinced about anime? by Stay Golden	Mar 13th, 2000 01:05:49 PM
Then go rent the anime "Ninja Scroll". Great story, nice action, and beautiful animation. Oh yeah, and no "big wobbly moving eyes". ;) If the matrix anime is half as good as Ninja Scroll then it will rock!
Why Anime ? by RobinP	Mar 13th, 2000 01:06:39 PM
Why not stop screwing around, and just give us what we want.......a proper sequel ?
One, er Neo by X-P.A.	Mar 13th, 2000 01:15:08 PM
It took forever, but I finally caught "The Matrix." On DVD even. My brother bought a system. Great movie. I bit overcooked in parts, but otherwise novel. I really liked it, and I liked the story. It was really the first movie to go for the comic book feel and catch the comic book feel. It would've been more interesting if the good guys weren't so gun crazy, though. I don't count myself as particularly prude, but the whole "lobby shootup" was grotesque and unnecessary. I kind of wish the good guys could've fought strictly gunless. Guns are pretty pointless in a world where nothing is real. Anyway, enough poltics. I like the idea of an anime prequel. That'd be fun. Maybe even bookend it with live action. Morpheus could tell the back story to a new human baby in Zion. Cut to anime (as a kind of flashback) with Morpheus's narration. Eh, just an idea. I like it less even as I type it. And, by the way, am I the only one to say early in the movie, of course Neo is "The One" ... It's his name. Just move the "O" to the beginning.
Star Wars Ep1 was better than The Matrix. by Roborob	Mar 13th, 2000 01:22:46 PM
At least from British cinema figures, the recordes sales of
Matrix anime... by BigFire	Mar 13th, 2000 01:25:11 PM
Please let it be either Studio Madhouse or Sunrise Studio that handles this. These anime studio have consistently crank out good anime. (Gundam, Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne from Sunrise) (New Vampire Hunter D, Trigun from Madhouse).
jet li is a legend by Dragonfire	Mar 13th, 2000 01:44:20 PM
If Jet Li stars in the matrix it would be brilliant. Neo may be 'the one of the matrix but Jet Li is the one of kung fu.
matrix 2 and 3 by Dragonfire	Mar 13th, 2000 01:48:57 PM
I hope the rocouski brothers have something diffrent planned as TSP says, cause matrix was a perfect movie, and it would be a pity if matrix 2 and 3 end up like highlander 2 and 3 (shit sequels to a classic movie)
Matrix Prequel?! Here's How it Could Rule All That Came Before I by IG_69	Mar 13th, 2000 01:52:29 PM
Let's get one thing out there before I continue: I liked th' "Matrix." I enjoyed it quite abit actually. Yes, I've been in th' comics industry for a decade to th' year-t'-date as o' this month and I largely sympathize with Grant Morrison as to why he feels he was robbed, et al.....but I still dig Los Bros. Wachowski's fun li'l bastard child which we first glimpsed March o' last year. Sorry Grant. Does this mean that I'm gonna rape Gil "Hal Jordan Forever" Kane's mostly fresh corpse after I finish this post?! Hell no.... [sorry Gil, had t'cite someone I admire] That said, here's my 2 cents: Release this Prequel as a "Matrix" series of shorts (ala Katsuhiro Otomo's Robot Carnival mayhap?) strung together into a Frankensteinian anthology. I like anim
thank god for gunray by TABALF	Mar 13th, 2000 01:53:40 PM
i thought the whole world adored this distinctly mediocre film. the effects were good, but not ground-breaking. what little plot and ideas it had was nicked from other, better films. it had one good (but not terribly original) idea. if ever there was a purely FX-driven film, it was this one. "Have you anything meatl on you?" (or words to that effect) - that was quite cool, though.
The Matrix and THE IRON GIANT by Todd	Mar 13th, 2000 01:55:41 PM
One of the great fears that seems to be told in modern movies over and over is that of man losing his identify and individuality to the
My prob with The Matrix by Slugworth	Mar 13th, 2000 02:04:52 PM
I posted this arguement on a previous talkback, but long after anyone was reading that particular TB anymore. The Matrix was a big shiny hollywood movie, it was fun but ultimately disposable, much like "Pitch Black" this winter. The MAtrix's fan worship is unwarranted and inexplictable. My main problem with The Matrix, is that it is sloppy, half-assed, B movie quality science fiction. IMHO, "good" science fiction should explain what science cannot, it should expand upon that which science has already discovered, but not contradict what science has already proven. Which brings me to the following point: the premise of a "human battery" is one of the lamest I have ever seen. In a fit of boredom I did a few calculation to prove the Matrix was impossible. (I had a bet going with some friends). Here is goes: in essence what the matrix robots would have created is a perpetual motion machine, which in thermodynamically impossible. They feed humans liquifid dead people, and those humans use that energy to fuel their many endeavors. BUT, the point that is missed is that the amount of energy that is left in the dead corspe is but a fraction of the energy that is used through out the human lifetime. Think of how many liquifid dead people it would take to sustain a human for say sixty years. A one pound raw sirlion steak is 985 calories, we will use this as standard. Now, the bare minimum amount of food that a person must eat to remain healthy is 1200 calories, which equals about 1.2 pounds of meat. So each person will consume roughly one 150 pound person every 125 days or a little more than 4 months. Thats 3 people a year and 180 people every sixty human-years. Think of it this way, for each person that survives through one year, 3 have to die. I think the Wachowsky's tried to get a little too cute, and overlooked some pretty simple concepts. Of course, who am I to talk, the legion of teen-aged Matrix fans find it "deep and ironic". Yawn.
The Matrix by darthpsychotic	Mar 13th, 2000 02:16:28 PM
The IRON GIANT was a merry old SOUL...A merry old soul was HE...He chewed off hogarth's dck...ATE his own SHT...And washed it down with some TEA!
this is bootleg by soulreefer	Mar 13th, 2000 02:19:35 PM
it bugs me when americans try to emulate japanese animation. Its just very bootlegged that were are trying to make anime, when anime stands for JAPANESE ANIMATION! how gay is that. if they had some actual Japanese make it in Japan, it wouldn't be so unoriginal and derivative.
The Human Battery by Stile	Mar 13th, 2000 02:25:14 PM
Although the battery concept is not entirely biologically feasible, it is a possibility. I agree with the above calculations for the most part, however, the poster is ignoring that 1200 calories per day would keep an active person healthy. The copper-tops were in a tank... the only thing that really needed to work were their brains and hearts. There would be 0 muscular activity and no need for immune functioning., which would save a massive amount, calorically speaking. Besides this, the machines were not relying solely on coppertops. The film does state that the machines also used a form of fusion. Moreover, although it is implied that machines were only fed the remains of other humans, it is probable that they would also be fed glucose or amino acid solutions, which would be fairly cheap to produce. Since the machines wouldn't need hydrocarbons, they could be almost entirely converted to glucose and aminos. That would probably cut the body count to a one to one ratio, or less, which makes things much more probable.
Slugworth - Love your post, but... by Funny Ha Ha	Mar 13th, 2000 02:31:04 PM
Your kind of post is my favorite - honestly! I love to try and break down the twisted logic of the movies like this, and do not easily "willfully suspend" my disbelief. It's only fun for me when it's somewhat credible. How's this for a solution: Isn't it possible that the machines have developed with their superior minds a more efficient food source? You are also calculating caloric requirments based upon an active human being (i.e. one that moves around in its environment) which Matrix folks don't normally do. Also, what about the possiblitity of other food sources, say your example of cattle, or chickens? If we can raise these food sources on a grand scale today, why couldn't the robots do the same in the future? Especially since appetizing food is not a requirement, all sorts of foodstuffs could be used to feed the "battery humans," including bacteria-like growths produced in laboratories. I am not a maniacal Matrix fan, but I do love debating this sort of thing...
Matrix Anime... hmmm.... and to Slugworth by Mr. Sartre	Mar 13th, 2000 02:36:23 PM
On the DVD of 'The Matrix', the Wachoski brothers did say that 'The Matrix' was essentially an attempt at bringing the medium of Japanese anime to life. I enjoyed the film, very lush visuals, kung-fu, an oddly philosophical idea of generated reality. I'll probably get flack from those who didn't see any philosophical thought in this action kung-fu sci-fi fantasy vehicle, but I like to read into things a lot. An anime for this would be good if done right. The problem with anime these days is people are too quick to classify it as nothing more than a genre comrpised of only Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z. If they could be exposed to the more diverse types of anime out there like "Perfect Blue", "Ghost in the Shell", "Ninja Scroll", or the erotica Hentai lines ("Legend of the Overfiend" or "La Blue Girl", anyone?), then the medium would be more graciously accpeted as an actual cinematic art form and not just childish kitsch. I'm uneasy about a Matrix anime because I think the studio heads at WB will tamper with the creative process thus producing a shoddy project... Anyways, to Slugworth, you do bring up a good point about the 1200 calorie intake to keep a human healthy. But, isn't that average calorie intake for active individuals? Since these people are not moving and expending energy, wouldn't they require less calories in order to survive? I don't know the math or if I've misrepresented your point or not. If I have misrepresented you, I apologize. But if they were not in motion, it's conceivable that they would require less calories to survive... Then again, it's just a kung-fu action sci-fi fantasy film, so there's no real point in argument. Mr. Sartre, over and out and pondering the absurdity of life...
Mr. Funny Ha Ha beat me to the punch by Mr. Sartre	Mar 13th, 2000 02:38:35 PM
Good show, man, on the calorie intake for active individuals idea... Now I just seem like a copy cat. Take care, y'all
Liquefying the Dead by InigoMontoya	Mar 13th, 2000 02:39:07 PM
Another possibility that we might not be seeing is that not all people may be attached to the Matrix. Just like we breed animals in order to feed other animals, so too might the robots breed some humans simply to liquify and feed to the living. These humans would have a different energy source, perhaps one with a bit more "meat" to it.
My 2 cents by Monster Rain	Mar 13th, 2000 02:43:18 PM
We're talking about the number of calories needed to sustain an active human. The humans in the Matrix were lying dormant, so perhaps the caloric intake needed only to be sufficient enough to sustain brain activity and basic organ functions. Just a thought.
The Matrix : More Blatant Thieving From The Works Of Philip K Di by SamLowry	Mar 13th, 2000 02:43:54 PM
When will film-makers like the Wachowskis and James Cameron give due credit to the writings of SF legend Philip K Dick? Most only know him as the author of the original tales the films Blade Runner and Total Recall were drawn from, but Dick's 30 plus novels and 130 plus short stories are rife with the most mind-blowing concepts and societal speculations from any author, this century. The whole premise of the Matrix and Terminator were lifted whole from Dick stories, and yet there is not even a Thanks For The Inspiration PKD credit in either movie. Some more PKD lifted scenarios and concepts razed up into modern 'classics'? The Truman Show, Twelve Monkeys, Dark City, Gattaca, Sphere, Videodrome, The Game...and on and on. This bitch is not about originality, or stealing ideas, it is simply a request for writers and film-makers to be more honest about their inspirations. Why is it such a bad thing to give Dick credit where it's due? Terry Gilliam is brave enough, why not others? Philip K Dick is one of the most influential, original and entertaining writers America has ever produced, and yet so few know who he is. A crime in itself. Stephen King, why have you never praised Dick as much as you praise other influential authors? Is King, like the Wachowskis and numerous others, afraid that if their fans read Dick's work they might not think their work so original and mind-fucking anymore? If you want to get a glimpse into the bizarre, hell-paced, drug-addled life of Philip K Dick, go have a look at a treatment that's been posted for a PKD bio-pic. You can read it free at : www.philipkdick.com/articles/p kd-biopic.html
Matrix Fan by soulbndr	Mar 13th, 2000 02:56:16 PM
The Matrix is a very cool movie, and I don't care who it's ripping off. Just glad somebody made it work. It reflects what is going on in our society today with biotechnology, globalization of the internet, and religious movements stressing "Oneness with everything" instead of individuality. The movie taps into something going on deep within our spirits- and that's cool. I can't wait to see the next 2, so I can figure out how this all works out.I have to go plug in now.
Calories and Energy by Slugworth	Mar 13th, 2000 03:22:59 PM
Funny Ha Ha, I too love pointless debates. :^) On to calories... calories are a measurement of potential energy. Therefore, the fewer calories you feed a person, the less energy you will receive as an output. This in turn mean that each person The Waschowsky's seem to believe that people can just out and out create energy. This is obviously not true. They can only convert potential chemical energy in the form of fat, carbo's, and protein into kinetic energy in the form of eletrical impulses, and more significantly heat. So for fun we can say that people only need 600 calories a day, that means twice as many people will create the same amount of energy as if they each burned 1200 calories. Amusing humans need 1200 calories and there are 6 billion people on Earth the Matrix could survive about 16 years. Assuming that each person burns 600 calories the Matrix could survive: about 24 years. Probably less, do to the fact that there ain't gonna be much meat on folks eating 600 calories a day. As do the Bots raising chickens, I'm sorry but I must giggle at the thought of a Droid in a straw hat. Still, its a little known fact that chickens must, very much like human, eat food. No Sun= No Sunlight= No photosynthesis= No grains= No chickens. Creating glucose and aa's. Interesting idea, its still gonna cost energy. I will cost more energy to make than to burn.
Yeah, This Is Old News by The Kid	Mar 13th, 2000 03:32:05 PM
Joel Silver was saying how a prequel would have to be anime, since a live-action film would have an impossible budget.
Wachowskis don't owe Dick! by iamdeadfish	Mar 13th, 2000 03:45:02 PM
Now I'm a big PK Dick fan. I've read several of his novels and a slew of his short stories and they are all great. The man was a Sci-Fi genius and WAY ahead of his time. But I don't think the Wachowski brothers (or the writer/directors of other films) owe any credit to PK Dick. PK Dick was one of the authors that revolutionized how sci-fi is today. Most of the ideas and terms that came along with that revolution are here for a long time to come. But if you think about it, Ray Bradbury, William Gibson and THOUSANDS of other writers are JUST as responsible for influencing a persons writing style. Think about what you're saying as if you're talking about paintings. If you're looking at a showing of modern paintings, you don't see a big list right next to it of all the painters that influenced the artist you are viewing. If you (the viewer) are well studied, then you will make the connections on your own.
We Stopped Disco with the Disco Sucks Movement! Now, Let's Stop by Buzz Maverik	Mar 13th, 2000 03:45:45 PM
Why are these clowns thinking of doing this to the Matrix? I mean, the Matrix was no work of art, but it was a pretty, damn good movie which is all we can ask out of a movie, unless we're a critic or something that watches too many movies and doesn't deal with problems in real life. So why are they going to turn this cool, live action cartoon into a cartoon where the characters have gigantic eyes. The good thing about anime is that it tells stories that American animation would never have a chance to tell. The thing to do is change American animation. Tell all kinds of stories with this medium, but do it with good art! The bad thing about anime is that it all looks alike. Not acceptable! I loved Astro-Boy too, but not every cartoon character has to look like him. Do the Matrix live-action. Or better yet, forget sequels and put your energies into a brand new story, characters and world that's just as exciting!
Anime - Matrix - Anime (Dark Angel) by Dark Angel	Mar 13th, 2000 03:54:50 PM
This is an interesting concept cosidering a lot of ideas for the Matrix came from anime, or so the creators said. So in a sense you are going from anime to real life back to anime. Although I do like anime, I would like to see the Matrix stay with live actors, and I will be pissed of the prequels and sequels don't have the same actor for each character, if they are in the movie.
Spriggan by BigFire	Mar 13th, 2000 03:57:12 PM
Ask ADV Films. They are handeling it's theatrical run as well as the video release.
take this with a grain of salt............... by GEEKBASHER 3.0	Mar 13th, 2000 04:03:42 PM
anime?? well maybe mixed in with the movie but I personally would rather not see Neo with big ass Japanimation Eyes!
Anyone else wondering just where they're going to go with this? by superninja	Mar 13th, 2000 04:21:42 PM
I wonder if Neo's going to be like the Paul character from Dune. And was it just me, or did anyone else not give a rat's @$$ about Neo and Trinity getting together? It seemed like they just threw that in at the end. Anyway, I guess to make it interesting, something's going to have to go awry with Trinity. I'm going to bet she'll either switch sides, or die. While I thought the movie's effects were great and were used EXTREMELY effectively, I really didn't care about any of the characters. Maybe it's because Keanu Reeves is neither sex symbol to me, or remotely interesting as an actor. Neo was seriously one of the most androgenous characters I've seen in a long time -- it would've been refreshing if they'd just left the romance out entirely.
the matrix was no better by Z	Mar 13th, 2000 04:32:48 PM
than the mummy. fun, eye catching, leather. end of story. doesn't bear up well to repeated viewings. maybe that's why that guy was spending so much time breaking down the back story and the plausibility of the whole 'battery" shtick, cause after a couple of viewings the whole thing starts to sound less and less believeable and more like excuses to dress carrie ann moss (or whatever her name is) in tight leather outfits. not that i gots a problem with that, but come on, comparing the matrix to homer's the illiad, is pretty fuckin stupid. two totally different cultures, mediums and sets of beliefs. (besides how many people in modern times have ever heard the illiad in it's entirety? probably very, very few, it's a piece of CLASSIC culture, only passed on cause of it's historical weight and certain interesting parts of the story) and yeah, it's a lame ass excuse to tell someone they can't suspend disbelief (or have no imagination) when the flick has such gaping holes in it's own technomyths. it's a fucking central element of the plot, people. if it don't stand up enough to make at least some kind of sense, don't use it.
to Slugworth by Monkey Lord	Mar 13th, 2000 04:34:08 PM
Sorry, my friend, it is obvious that you are not a biochemist, and that you really don't know what you are talking about. Besides, anyone remotely familiar with the logical construction of an argument would see that your conclusions are based on premises that are false. There is no possible way for you to make your arguments based on the very fact that you have no idea how the machines from the matrix worked AT ALL. No one does, because at no time in the movie did they give anyone a lesson in biochemistry and nuclear fusion...or Artificial Intelligence for that matter. There is no point arguing against these things because you don't know the details and cannot make an informed judgement... You'll only make yourself look like an ass, and inspire pity in those that look at you and say "Man... did he really just say that?" It appears that you've missed the entire point behind the movie: It's not about amazing technology, or kicking ass with kung fu you can learn in about five seconds. It isn't lesson against creating artificial intelligence or the exploration of scientific principle. The movie is about Plato's Allegory of the Cave... We are all sitting in a cave staring at shadows on the wall, and we have no idea really what they mean. We don't understand out reality, the prupose behind, etc. The Matrix is about trying to leave the cave. Read. you might gain a little more insight into things by learning about other people, other ideas, other philosophies outside of your own. It's a shame that people will actually go out of their way to try and discredit things they don't like or don't understand. Negativity will gain you nothing... For example, you've missed out on a fun movie. :)
Oops... by Monkey Lord	Mar 13th, 2000 04:36:21 PM
Man, I really should edit these messages before posting them...
The only good thing about the Mummy was Rachel Wiez. by superninja	Mar 13th, 2000 04:39:25 PM
That was a fun character. I really don't get any pleasure out of watching Brenden Frasier act. When I think of him the word "blah" comes to mind. Same with Reeves -- two BORING actors to head up a franchise....GOOD LUCK!
Anime is not necessarily 'big eyes' by ManOfSteele	Mar 13th, 2000 04:41:49 PM
All sqaures are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. Likewise, all 'huge eyed' animation is anime, but not all anime has characters with disproportionate eyes. Many of the (arguably) better anime movies don't use that character trait in fact. Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, Vampire Hunter D (the movie that may or may not have inspired the Castlevania games), and Armitage 3rd have characters with relatively normal faces. Hence, a Matrix anime prequel doesn't mean Morpheus will have enormous eyes. Besides, they wear sunglasses so darn much. :)
The Matrix may not have been the second coming, but it was enter by superninja	Mar 13th, 2000 04:43:14 PM
I think they just had all the right elements and was a simple story that was visually exciting. I also found the shoot-em-up scene in the lobby disturbing as well. But after another viewing, I began to question whether or not this will make a viable franchise. Does anyone REALLY care about Neo/Reeves? No. Everyone talks about Moss. People want to see Trinity, more Trinity. It was just a fun movie, and to me is just as entertaining as anything John Woo has ever put out.
I wonder if the sex roles were reversed deliberately to avoid st by superninja	Mar 13th, 2000 04:50:10 PM
Because, really, there is little or no meat to the characters. So to avoid the typical "boy meets girl" scenario, they do the 'ol switcheroo and make Neo the wuss and Trinity the tough guy. I just really didn't get, or even SEE what would've attracted her to someone like him in the first place.
Clear this up a bit! by twindaggerturkey	Mar 13th, 2000 04:56:30 PM
By "anime," do you mean actual anime by actual Japanese people? It could be cool, though..too bad they won't release it in theaters, because I suspect people would go to see it (being a Matrix thing.) While I agree that sometimes the character design in anime is a bit off, anime has been a lot more interesting than most recent American animation. (Compare PRINCESS MONONOKE to MULAN or TARZAN.) It would be really, really great if Jet Li got a part in a Matrix movie, but I would like to see him as a good guy. I'm not one to get all up-in-arms about stereotyping, but I like to see Asian guys play something other than weird henchmen. Hoping ROMEO MUST DIE IS GOOD. P.S. Like d THE MATRIX, but why don't the evil machines just use geothermal power?
MATRIX FUCKING ROCKS! by prajadhipok	Mar 13th, 2000 05:06:40 PM
that was not just slow-motion fuckers... the ability to shoot film 360 degrees with over a hundred cameras going around is no friggin joke! i hope they astound audiences again with their sequels... as far as prequel anime stuff, do that shit waaaaaaaaay after the movies!
More fun facts... by Slugworth	Mar 13th, 2000 05:09:55 PM
Hey, Monkey Lord, its THAT obvious? Cause you're right, I am not a biochemist. I am a Molecular Biologist. I HAVE however spend many hours in a lecture hall listing to Biochemistry lectures, and equal time in a library reading text. So though I may not be an EXPERT, I do feel qualified to speak on the topic to the extent that I have. The debate is really more of a physics debate rather than biochemical, though, if you were paying attention. Try this "thought experiment" with me: Imagine the earth as a black box (or a dark scary cave if you prefer). There is NO energy coming in because the sun is blocked. Therefore ALL available energy is nonrenewable. Also Energy CANNOT be created or destroyed. Still with me? What I am saying is that with the available sources of energy, human beings are quite possible the worst source. Sustaining human life is very costly (energy-wise). This is what my calculations were supposed to(as do) show. Anyhow. I dusted off my old college physics book and came up with these FUN FACTS: A Human Battery on a 600 calories/day diet has a half life of 246 days. A human battery starting with 6 billion people will average 14 GigaWatts energy for 26 years. This equals approximately the power generated from 7 nuclear power plants OR the power required to run 11.6 Flux Capacitors (running at 1.21 gigawatts).
Question for Monkey Lord by soulbndr	Mar 13th, 2000 05:13:40 PM
Monkey Lord, I'm confused. Is the Matrix really about coming out of a cave? How so? Who told you? Isn't that the same thing as transcending the collective movement towards technological advancement in order to see the destructive consiquences of it? I'm not sure what you are saying- You're saying it is not about technology, but isn't it? PS _ I think HARRY should add SPELL CHECKER to this thing.
AT THE RISK OF STARTING A FLAME WAR...!!! by RickSlamu2	Mar 13th, 2000 05:23:52 PM
Before i begin with my rambelings 3 things. 1) i have never thought about (with all due respect to our host Harry) posting anything here, content to watch the verbal sparring here from the side lines. BUT THE LEVEL OF UNINFORMED JUST PLANE STUPID VERBAL DIAREHA BEING SPEWWED around here by a sellect FEW (I will concede)is enought to make me sick! Prodding my regerstration. 2) i have come to the conclusion that this is a good cross section of not only the american public but allso the world and as such should be taken witha grain of salt. 3)I will freely admit that i an not the best speller in the world when i type because i am focused on my point. not the little details. So if you comment one way or another leave my spelling out of it as if you make it the focus of your remarkes it will just prove me right. NOW! WHAT THE hell ARE SOME OF YOU OUT THERE THINKING!!! THOUSE OF YOU OUT THERE DISSING ANIME HAD BEST GET THIS STRIGHT! THE MATRIX WOULD NOT EXIST WITHOUT ANIME!!! Mr. Sartre and Dark Angle are 100% right when they say the bros. Warsharski based the energy and and visual style of the film on there love fore Anime. Laurence Fishburn said that the hook to get him on the film was when the bros. said to him that there were trying to make a live action Anime as Fishburn is himself a fan of the Medium. (By the way, My complements to whoever started and the people who continued the the whole CALLERY & ENERGY debate. weither you were serious or not the debate was verry entertaing.)Thou i do Aggre with Paddy o' Furniture, that a prequil might be unnessary. and in the case of Phantom Menace, DAMM CONFUSING! (a seprate debate for another time.) But as a fan of Anime my self i would like to know WHAT THE HELL, Soulreefer, Buzz Maverik, jtrenton and the rest of there ilk are tallking about when they speek of anime. FIRST OF ALL YOU HAVE TO BE BLIND TO SAY ALL ANIME LOOKES ALIKE. Althought Anime hase some of the same visual stylings that identaify it as such, SAYING THAT GHOST IN THE SHELL LOOKES LIKE SAILOR MOON IS LIKE SAYING THAT cALISTA FLOCKHEART LOOKS LIKE CHYNA! BOTH ARE beatuful but in there own ABSOLUTELY DIFFRENT, way. AND AS MUCH AS I HATE TO SAY IT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF u.s. ANIMATION MADE WITHIN THE PAST 5-7 YEARS (Post Batman Tv series) u.s. animation HAS SUCKED!!! eNEN THOUGHT AS A KID I LIKED G.I. JOE, TRANSFORMERS, AND yes even the occasional epposide of JEM, I KNOW KNOW THAT THESE WHERE JUST ATTEMPES AT SELLING PRODUCT WITH COOKIE CUTTER STORIES. IT IS ONLY BEEN RECENTLY THAT U.S. ANIMATION HAS BEEN ON A LEVEL THAT IS ON PAR WITH ANIME. Both in techinal aspect and mature story line. The example i can think of off the top of my head is , Ruffnecks: Starship Trooper Cronicals And Batman Beyond. these HAVE taken insperation from Anime. As much as i hate to say it, (As i cone to the end of this WAR AND PEACE of postings)we may have created Animation in the U.S. but Japan made it better, and now the U.S. is makeing it even better, I can hardly waight to see what TITAN A.E. COMPELLES japanese animators to do, not to menchion wanting to see the film myself. PS. by the way soulreefer, lay off the pot. if "It so fucking gay" is you best argument to things go run for congerss with the rest of the degenerates.
Not to rank on Li, but you're right -- I'm sick of seing asian a by superninja	Mar 13th, 2000 05:33:55 PM
All of these stereotypes, while fun back in the day, are wearing a little thin with me. Can anyone think of an asian character in an action movie recently that didn't use some form of martial arts? Jet Li is amazing, but he's kind of boring to watch. He has about two facial expressions, kind of like Arnie.
Where to begin... by Sorcerer	Mar 13th, 2000 05:42:40 PM
Yes, THE MATRIX owes something to Phillip K. Dick. But THE MATRIX is more a mish-mash of influences, from Dick to Plato to HK cinema to anime to Dune to superhero comics to God knows what else. I don't think its origins can be pinpointed with one previous author, no matter how influential. Regarding Jet Li, I believe the Wachowskis wanted him to be in the first and actually created a character for him to be- sort of a super-assassin for the Matrix- but he wasn't available, so they're now looking to get him into the sequels. As for an anime version- that seems kind of redundant, but as a kind of spin-off set in the world or dealing with another point in its time-line, it could be pretty entertaining. As for the scientific debate, I think it's important to remember that the Earth of THE MATRIX isn't really a closed system. The skies are scorched, but that doesn't mean no light at all is entering- just not enough for the solar power the machines used. Additional 'food' for the humans or fuel for the machines could concievably be cultivated at lower light levels. Morpheus's explanation was brief, so there could be many support systems that we're not aware of. It could be far more complex than simply "use humans for energy, feed the old generation to the new every so often."
Re: X-P.A. by decastro	Mar 13th, 2000 05:47:37 PM
I'd say that Dark City was the first and best movie to get that comic book feeling. Everything about it feels like a comic book.
To Superninja by twindaggerturkey	Mar 13th, 2000 05:49:59 PM
If you want to see Jet Li smile, check out SWORDSMAN 2 and DR. WAI AND THE SCRIPTURE WITH NO WORDS. P.S. Stephen Chow is the sexiest man alive!
Matrix cartoon by Wheel99	Mar 13th, 2000 06:11:14 PM
I think the guys who will have the toughest job are the guys who will have to animate a character who has been previously brought to life(?) by Keanu Reeves.
Sterotypes by SeVen Higgins	Mar 13th, 2000 06:15:35 PM
I just wanted to answear your question about the last Asian that didn't use martial arts in an action movie. The Corrupter starring Chow Yun-Fat and Mark Wahlberg was a suprising good movie (to me anyway)were Yun-Fat let his guns do most of his fighting. If anyone likes police dramas then I recommend this one. And no matter what I will always give the Matrix a chance, for the simple fact that two pioneers are trying to bring a diffrent medium to usually blase` action-sci-fi genere.
Matrix Science by Mazinger	Mar 13th, 2000 06:16:21 PM
I am really very pleased to see so much debate over the science in The Matrix. I'm a scientist and a fan of science fiction in general, and when I go to see a science fiction movie, I pay a lot of attention to the science underlying the fiction. Now, when I go to see something like Star Wars, I don't care... that's science fantasy, and has no particular relationship to reality. On the other hand, a The Matrix had the potential to be a real science fiction movie. Unfortunately, it blew it with that ridiculous story about solar-powered computers, followed by people-powered computers. As has already been pointed out, there is simply no way to get more energy out of humans as batteries than you put into them to maintain their lives. Where I think the Wachowski brothers missed their bet was by ignoring the potential of the human brain. Consider this: As current robot technology stands, we are incapable of making a robot which can reliably throw or catch a baseball. It takes a truly insane amount of processing power for a binary-based computer to process algorithms that give it even the merest fraction of a human's dexterity. And yet, there are insects with brains smaller than the head of a pin which perform similar, if not even more difficult feats of on-the-fly calculations of relative velocities and muscular control. Add in to that the ability of, say, idiot-savants to instantly calculate large numbers in their heads, of musical prodigies to hear complex combinations of sounds and convert them to symbols, and of scientists to make connections between seemingly unconnected phenomena and come up with theories that revolutionize our understanding of the universe. The human brain is one of the most sophisticated and powerful computers on the planet, and it comes with its own support system. What I would have liked instead would be, rather than using humans as batteries, with the Matrix existing as a system for keeping people docile, the Wachowski brothers had instead posited that the AI's were using human brains as the hardware, tapping the calculating and storage power of the entire human race by directly hooking every human brain together. The AI's could even be running themselves on this human organic hardware, perhaps in the form of complicated memes, rather than existing as patterns of electrons running around an artificial electronic system. In this case, the apparent world of the Matrix would actually be something like a shared dream-state, a diversion for conscious minds while the AI's ran their programs in the background. Oh well. P.S. For those new to anime, I recommend starting with the mild stuff... try Graveyard of the Fireflies, for example. Okay, it's not exactly mild, but it certainly doesn't risk being dismissed as mindless fluff as easily as certain anime featuring large-eyed scantily clad young women running around with big guns and giant robots do.
Science and Sci-fi/Fantasy (and MacGuyver) by Robin Goodfellow	Mar 13th, 2000 06:24:22 PM
Odd... Mixing reality into works of fiction. So, you guys are applying entropy to 'The Matrix'? Interesting. Why does reality have to be so vital to the existence of a fantasy movie? I mean, c'mon, you can't take 'The Matrix' all that seriously, can you? Sure energy can niether be created or destroyed, but do you have to bring that into the realm of cinema? Those Wachoski guys are not experts in thermodynamics or anything. They're just two goofy guys who made an action movie. Okay, but let's get nit-picky. In 'Star Wars', there should be no sound when they're flying X-Wings and Tie-Fighters around in the vaccuum of space. That's just ridiculous, ain't it? In the 'Once Upon a Time in China' series and the supposed prequel 'Iron Monkey (1994 I think)', the fight scene are impossible because of the amount of the wire work used. Highly unrealistic. And the TV show 'MacGuyver', don't get me started. Bombs out of pig crap and projectile weapons out of used tampons... 'nuff said. Heck, these are works of fiction. Don't take them too seriously. Peace
Matrix haters by mrmovieman	Mar 13th, 2000 06:24:54 PM
All of you Matrix haters need to do us all a favor and unplug the machine keeping you alive. How can you honestly call the most innovative and fresh new movie in recent history boring? PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK!
Liked The Matrix a lot, but an anime prequel doesn't sound appea by Dave_F	Mar 13th, 2000 06:29:08 PM
Though The Matrix took inspiration from anime, I'd rather not see it converted back to anime. Part of the appeal of The Matrix was that it was "anime brought to life". That's what made it unique, to see that hyperbolic anime action as visualized somewhat realistically. For my part, I'd rather see a live-action prequel if they must do one, or better yet, no prequel at all. I like the mysteriousness of what happened in the war between man and machines, and admitedly, the Terminator flicks covered that ground quite well. A Matrix prequel could go out of the way to make showcase a very different man/machine war (I like the more organic robots of the Matrix, and the rather emotional A.I. agents), but why bother? Leave it mysterious, and bring on the live-action sequels - Zion, Neo's cool powers, guerilla warfare in the real world, NEW STUFF!
Re: The tacked-on love story by Dave_F	Mar 13th, 2000 06:54:46 PM
Well, call me naive, but I went with the rather tacked-on love story in The Matrix. Bothered me a little, but I guess I was caught up enough in the movie, at least on the initial viewing, not to care. Superninja: as to what Trinity sees in Neo...well...he's brave and all that, willing to risk his life for Morpheus, willing to join their cause, etc. Also, Morpheus had filled her head for how many years with talk of "The One"? I'm guessing she fell for Neo (as iconic savior) long before she ever saw him, and the fact that he's cute (well, allegedly), just made it that much easier when they met. I agree that there were no romantic sparks on the screen between Neo and Trinity, but I can believe her falling in love with him, even if I have to invent a little backstory to do it. Now...wouldn't it be interesting if in the sequel she realizes he's not this great guy she imagines him to be, despite his powers and savior-status? As she gets to know him and realizes that he's fallible, maybe they'll grow distant. That'd be an interesting twist. Or maybe they'll just kill her off as per your prediction. Yeah, I'd rather see Neo die too.
I thought todds post was cool by Fox Box	Mar 13th, 2000 07:00:06 PM
Even though he only talks about the iron giant he still manages to relate interesting things into his talkback. I think that make him original and not a sinking ship. I never thought of the empire as being monolithic like the matrix was. Is aicn really having an IPO?
: Mazinger by Z	Mar 13th, 2000 07:01:22 PM
hey the human computer was a really cool idea and a whole lot more believable then the whole human battery thing. Maybe you should send that to the bros. W. and they can some how twist that into their next flick.
What is with the Anime bashing? by ssjsonic	Mar 13th, 2000 07:22:26 PM
I'm getting tired of this...why is it that people don't like anime just because of the same, lame ass stereotypes. "Oh, big eyes! They don't blink! It's so weird!" Give me a break...what do we have in America? "The Wacky World of Tex Avery?" Or how about the classic, "NASCAR Racers?" Let's face it, story counts. And this is where anime shines best. You watch something from America, you'd be lucky to find something as serious as most anime. The last time I saw a serious American animation was, "Invasion America," on the WB. The new movie, "Titan, AE" looks wonderful because it has a very grungy, serious feel to it. Not a happy, peppy, annoying sidekick in site like some other movies (coughDisneycough coughStar Warscough). And anime has some of the most superior animation to date. The company that animates a show or movie pays a very large amount of attention to the detail of pretty much everything. And lets face another thing: THE MATRIX WAS INSPIRED BY ANIME! Perfect examples are the camera angles. Japanese animation has some of the wildest camera angles you'll ever see. Also, the whole thing with the wires connecting you into the Matrix from the chairs they sat in? That has "Ghost in the Shell" written all over it. In that movie, people could access almost anything they wanted to through four small holes in the back of their necks which connected to wires in chairs.
Bruce Campbell and Darth maul are AGENTS! by nitzsche	Mar 13th, 2000 07:40:24 PM
I was at Boston Market with Danny Glover today. I had the 1/4 chicken dark meal and he had the 1/4 chicken white (ironic). Anyway, I went to get a refill of Sprite and when I came back to the table, Danny was just getting off his cell phone. He looked at me and said "Nitzsche, good news! Bruce and Maul are in for the Matrix sequels!" I was flabbergasted! I knew it was right. Danny's eyes started to well up with tears, and I was pretty choked up myself. So much so that I actually got some chicken caught in my windpipe and passed out. When I came too, Danny was standing over my hospital bed. "That was pretty scary, buddy", he said. I brought someone to see you. It was Rene Russo. We've been lovers for years. "You scared me, baby. I thought Danny said "Nitzsche was choking HIS chicken in a public place" when in fact you were choking ON chicken." I could see she was aroused either way. Then, Danny farted and we all started laughing and froze mid frame as the credits started rolling.
Prediction for the future of 'The Matrix.' by Powerslave	Mar 13th, 2000 07:42:48 PM
Approximately 10,000,000 fanboys will cream/piss/shit (take your pick) their pants at anything associated with this movie franchise, while everyone else - including myself - will wonder what the big deal is. 'The Matrix' is, without a doubt, one of the most over-hyped, over-rated movies out there. After seeing it, I was left saying, "So What?" It's a decent movie, but hardly worthy of the praise lavished upon it. Anime is basically for folks who want to look 'kewl' in the eyes of their buddies; it's one of those things that a lot of people claim to like, but don't: they just say they do because they don't want to left out. Ain't peer pressure grand? And before I climb into my asbestos suit, let me say this: I used to absolutely love "Battle of the Planets."
Brooksie: I see by Sorcerer	Mar 13th, 2000 08:00:43 PM
I like one movie that you don't, therefore I'm not allowed to say anything. That's not how film discussion works. If you had confidence in your own opinions, you wouldn't need to insult those of others.
Well it is... by Pink-Pussycat	Mar 13th, 2000 08:25:55 PM
...a modern myth. it follows the myth guidelines very well. re. joseph campbell, star wars, and well jesus.
TABALF: Please oh please by TheKellySisters	Mar 13th, 2000 08:39:33 PM
TABALF, please answer these questions pertaining to your talkback and read my comments 1)the effects were good, but not ground-breaking -Bullet-time was specifically invented for The Matrix and then ripped off by everyone else before it came out. That makes them pretty ground breaking. 2)what little plot and ideas it had was nicked from other, better films -What films? If they exist, I'd be very interested to see them seeing as I thought that the story for The Matrix was astoundingly original. 3)it had one good (but not terribly original) idea -What was it? I'd like to know what you thought WAS good about it. 4)if ever there was a purely FX-driven film, it was this one -Really? So a great story and great characters are involved in a truly FX-driven film? So I guess that The Mummy and Mission to Mars had incredible stories and better characters that any film that uses minimal special effects. Please answer these, if you can.
Cow by newfers	Mar 13th, 2000 08:58:49 PM
I hear that they plan to kill an anime cow in the prequel. Bastards. -newfers
Slugworth... by Battleflag	Mar 13th, 2000 09:02:11 PM
Why do you attempt to quantify what was only an imaginative idea? What purpose does this serve? Wow you're smarter at biophysics than a couple of writers making a movie! I mean was that not some of the nerdiest, most pretetious post(s) you've all read?! What the fuck! Also, while you're at it why not take apart Ray fucking Bradbury for not realizing that ice-cream couldn't possibly cool a rocket enough to land on the sun. Or, better yet why not just get a fucking life you trick ass bitch of an 'intellectual.' Now I know you think I'm just frustrated because, deep down, I know he's right, but let me just allow Morpheus handle this one, "the machines used human energy, ALONG with a form of FUSION for all the power they would need." Get it fucking staight, humans didn't power the machines directly you moron. Oh and I did laugh during your post, when you said you had friends! HA ps, Jet Li would be a good choice as a human, with 'one' like powers, who's allied with the machines.
THE MATRIX WAS COOL. by Sith Lord Jesus	Mar 13th, 2000 09:30:24 PM
Not by any means the greatest movie I've ever seen or some kind of life changing event or nothin'. Just a great flick with good acting, stompin' SFX and a nice, tight storyline--all the necessary ingredients for good sci-fi. Sure some of the premise (humans = Energizer batteries) was hokey. So what? I don't let that kind of thing stop me when I'm grooving to Mobile Battleship Nadesco or Cowboy Bebop! It's Sci-Fi, not Science Fiction like 2001, but that doesn't mean it can't be good. On my personal cool-o-meter, it holds an honored place with T2, ALIENS and perhaps PITCH BLACK, with I'm gonna go catch this weekend. Here's hoping it's not a waste of my cash, like friggin' MISSION TO MARS. Jeez. . .
You posted this sh*t? by houndog	Mar 13th, 2000 10:12:28 PM
Oh my god! So the Matrix sequels are gonna be cool? Wow! Give us some real scoops Knowles, not common knowledge! That's why we come to this freakin' site!
Anime Sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by capn	Mar 13th, 2000 10:26:31 PM
Look, anime is nothing more than Holly Hobby eyes slapped on a culture still warped from us dropping the bomb on them. Lets do it again if it gets rid of anime. Let the bros. give us a straight forward sequal and leave anime where it belongs, in a society that thinks cartoon erotica is "hot", Jesus anime sucks!!
overblown? by phriedom	Mar 13th, 2000 10:32:09 PM
Somebody compared Pitch Black and Matrix and said they are both overblown. The reason I really like both of these movies is that they accomplish exactly what they set out to do and are very fun to watch. They are not realistic, but they are realistic enough. Once you buy into the weak premise, they stay consistant and keep you immersed. I like them because they don't feel like cobbled together scenes, or like someone figured out how to make an effect and decided to find a way to put it into a movie. They ARE complete stories that may contain cliches, but then reveal something deeper and give you a surprise or two so you don't notice or care that it is a cliche. Reeves is a terrible actor, but he is good enough for this role. Fishburn is great. Somebody said John Woo is better, but that is irrelavent, The Matrix wasn't trying to be a John Woo movie. Yes, it is NOT a Great Movie. The Iron Giant might be a Great Movie and I will watch it again. Saving Pvt. Ryan, though flawed, IS a Great Movie. It is profound. I really DO NOT want to see it again. I've watched The Matrix 6 or 7 times and still want more. I cautiously hope that Matrix 2 and 3 will be good and that it stays consistant. I think we need more good anime here in the states, but I don't think The Matrix backstory needs to be told.
Some Anime titles by hrc	Mar 13th, 2000 10:34:25 PM
This is for those people who want to know more about Anime beyond the usual Pokemon or Akira or Ghost in the Shell or Sailor Moon or the typical hentai (porn)/horror anime such as La Blue Girl. 1. Cowboy Bebop 2. Neon Genesis Evangelion 3. Fushigi Yugi (Mysterious Play) 4. Serial Experiment Lain (don't watch this unless you're into David Lynch/Cronenberg sort of film). 5. Vision of Escaflowne 6. Rurouni Kenshin 7. Key the Metal Idol 8. Garasaki 9. Saber Marionette J / J to X 10. Gundam 11. Slayers 12. My Neighbour Totoro 13. Laputa: Castle in the Sky 14. Grave of the Fireflies 15. Brain Powerd 16. Tenchi Muyo 17. City Hunter 18. Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro. 19. Perfect Blue 20. Ranma 1/2 All are very different type of Anime. Watch these and see that not all anime revolves around Pokemon/Akira/Ghost in the Shell/Sailor Moon. There are as many choices in Anime as there are in American animation and some actually contain thought proviking story.
Stormbringer by Dave_F	Mar 13th, 2000 11:05:02 PM
You're right about female leads in sci-fi movies. Sigourney Weaver is a pleasant exception, and...that's about the only one I can think of. My own related rant revolves around the all-white nature of most sci-fi TV shows and movies. Wouldn't people just freak out to see a starship bridge with, say, three Hispanics, two blacks, and only one white guy? Oh god, I'd love to see that. So tired of whitebread Star Trek, Babylon 5, etc. Just once, I want to see white dudes in the minority, or perhaps more realistically, cast members with multi-racial features representing racial "blending", but I guess that's too far-fetched even for sci-fi, eh? ***** Getting back to The Matrix, note that Trinity was never marginalized. Remember, she wasn't written as the lead. In fact, I don't think she was "sent into the background" as you suggest. Haven't watched it for a few months, but it seems to me she's present for a good chunk of the picture, kicking ass, removing bugs from Keanu's bellybutton, and going on missions with him. I'd say the fact that she "out cooled" Keanu is very much to the credit of the Wachowskis, not a point to criticize them on. Would definitely love to see Trinity as the major player in the sequel though. ******* As for that kiss...I think there's entirely too much made of it. Trinity did NOT somehow magically resurrect Neo with a kiss. In this man's opinion, he hadn't truly died at that point. After all, he was "The One", and if anyone could survive death in the Matrix, it was him. Either the near-death experience of being shot by the agent triggered his acceptance of his role as The One, or maybe he actually heard Trinity's words, her faith in him, and drew strength to resurrect himself from them. After all, wasn't "The One" supposed to be able to bridge the gap between reality and the matrix world? I forget the details. Anyway, there're any number of ways to interpret Neo's resurrection, but I think I can say with some confidence that the Wachowski's did not mean us to believe Trinity magically healed him with a smooch. The kiss was a classic visual cliche (The Matrix used many of them), and I had no problem with it. That it was a reverse-Sleeping Beauty riff was just the brothers' way of turning convention on its ear.
calories by Star	Mar 14th, 2000 12:38:19 AM
I am a medical student in my last year of residency, I would like everyone to know that if one is lying dormant (as seen in the 'Matrix') the human body would require no more than 350 well balanced calories to survive. You can thrive on much less, ask Janet Jackson...
My pair of pennies by Debaser	Mar 14th, 2000 01:15:38 AM
Firstly, I want to say that I enjoyed The Matrix and I saw it multiple times. I also love anime and I take exception to Soul Suckin Jerks assertion that anime is dead and that Pokemon is its "last monster". Anime's not gonna die anytime soon, because the Japanese realize that you can tell stories with animation that would be impossible to tell with live action, and they have also gotten past the idea that anything animated is automatically for children simply because it is animated. While the mainstream American public might feel that the novelty of anime has worn off, there will always be the true otaku who will stick by it. Secondly, why would anyone who claims that they are indifferent or apathetic towards The Matrix want to post on this issue? Why bother? Also, to compare Matrix to Pitch Black is just WRONG. Pitch Black was fucking horrible. And to the armchair biochemists in the house, how about a little suspension of disbelief?
Sci Fi and originality... by SonofSiskel	Mar 14th, 2000 01:23:22 AM
Hey, I would like to thank the Talk Back Posters for introducing new AICN readers to genres such as anime, HK movies, classic authors in suspense, scifi,horror, etc. Ive enjoyed everyones comments. If anyone could find the true source or inspiration for movies such as the matrix and what influenzed PKD in his writing, Im sure we would find an endless spiral of imaginative writers, artists. I feel like we are the lucky ones all we have to do is sit back and enjoy the hard work and labor of others. Directors, Screenwriters, Actors, Producers, Authors, Artists, and the list goes on and on and on. I mean think about it, it costs a substanial amount of money to create a movie, produce a book, all we have to do is pay 7+ bucks. Life is Good!! even if the occasional movie we watch SUCKS!!! Hmmm I hope they develop Marc Singers BEASTMASTER for the DVD format
To Slugworth..Again by Monkey Lord	Mar 14th, 2000 01:45:03 AM
Well, Slugworth, before I continue, please allow me to be the first to pull my boot out of mouth, and apologize before my above post addressed to you... for whatever reason, when I first begin a post in an inflamatory state, I will say things that aren't necessarily friendly or even fair... Such as was the case. as I reread my post, I must regretfully inform myself again that a Talkback is by far one of the least efficient mediums of communication... The "inflection" is gone, and all we have to go by is what we impart from words on the screen, which will not always accurately convey what we want to say...and as we continue writing, we forget what we wrote beforehand sometimes...I appeared very curt... rude, actually, and I apologize sincerely.... I was insulted by your last comment that read "the legion of teen-aged Matrix fans find it 'deep and ironic'. Yawn."...I believe that's what you said, anyways... In either case, The Matrix is quite a wealthy resource for discussion and exploration...(hence our argument, i suppose...hehe) But there are a lot of people who find some of the ideas concerning human condition very interesting... and you appeared to belittle that, which angered me. But that's no excuse.... In anycase, perhaps there is more to the story then has been explored by your argument. If we follow your case and come to the conclusion that human beings are not a desirable source of energy, than what are the alternatives? Nuclear Fission? Fusion perhaps, given the technology exists? If these technologies exist, then why not use them? Perhaps it was a conscious decision on the part of the Matrix (or the AI entity controlling the matrix, given there is one)... Why would it choose to do this? Perhaps for the same reason the Catholic Church only within the past few years officially admitted that Galileo MIGHT have been on to something... For the same reason a man will wear a favorite T-shirt with over 22 holes in it. Perhaps it was an emotional decision made by the machine to bring him closer to the biological functions of the human being... Perhaps it had an inferiority complex and WANTED to use humans to cement their place on the totem pole. The original point of my argument is that we do not know the whole story behind The Matrix... We know very little of the technology used by the machines, or what the emotional and intellectual state of the matrix "overmind" is. The reason I rebuked the statics you gave is because I do not believe we can know how many calories will be used by an almost unused body with an active (perhaps overactive) mind grown from birth to provide as an energy source. Will the body need nearly as much as you say? What is the chemical nature of the nutrients being pumped into the "batteries"? Living things are by far the most complicated machines we can possibly fathom... To be able to anticipate how it will function given the extreme circumstances of the story line is nigh impossible. Suspension of disbelief is a requirement for any movie goer. :) In anycase, I believe concentrating on the science of the human battery is missing the point... There is much more to be explored in the movie, and ultimately enjoyed if you'd give it half a chance.
armchair biochemist? by Star	Mar 14th, 2000 01:45:21 AM
I hope you were not refering to me... I was not suspending disbelief but encouraging it. In all actuality the premise behind the MATRIX is quite fascinating. It is not too far out of the sci-fi domain. STAR
To Soulbndr by Monkey Lord	Mar 14th, 2000 01:58:30 AM
Amen to the spell checker! :) Well consider the state of the human being: What is he? Is he what he knows, or is there more? In the Matrix, the human being is generally a consciousness that is experiencing a world given to him...whether it's given by the matrix, by a poitician, or by a god is irrelevent... It is a world that is presented to him by his senses....and this world is essentially Plato's shadow... We see so much, but yet there is so much more. To leave the cave, we must turn around... Change the way we look at things; be prepared to "awaken from [our] dogmatic slumber", as Kant would put it. This is what makes The Matrix so interesting to me... it solidifies and presents, in dramtic effect, an analogous awakening... A turning from the wall to see what is casting those shadows...Walking to the light and finding new things... then using this epiphany to return to the cave and tell your fellows what you saw so that you might change mankind, thus keeping humanity a dynamic and progressive being ...that, and the exaggerated martial arts extravaganzas are immensely intertaining as well. :) I love it when Agent Smith throws Neo upside down into the Subway tunnel wall...hehe...
MonkeyLord, Plato's cave story, and Rene Descartes by Mr. Sartre	Mar 14th, 2000 02:25:17 AM
I really enjoyed MonkeyLord's use of Plato's shadows in the cave parable... There is an interesting irony to it, though. Plato's shadows on the cave walls reflect the perfect world comprised of forms, the shadows being the imperfect examples of perfect things. Reality is, therefore, nothing more than an imperfect copy of these perfect forms. Conversely, in the film 'The Matrix', the shadows on the wall are more desirable than the forms that they reflect and we are led to believe, by comparison, that the shadows are more perfect than that which casts the shadows. So, from Plato we see our world as being imperfect and the world of forms, that reality which we only see as 'shadows on the wall', is the better world. 'The Matrix' has it where we desire our sensory perception of these shadows for it is more desireable than the ultimate reality. Same idea as Plato, but an opposite reaction, which I find delightfully ironic. Additionally, If I may add Rene Descartes to the philosophical implication of 'The Matrix', we see his 'cogito' (I think therfore I am) idea applied to this film. Man is a thinking thing and he exists in as much as he is a thinker. He may be unsure about the existence of the rest of his surroundings, but at least can can assert that he exists because he is a thinking being. Even if he doubts his own existence, man is still a doubter and he is thinking about doubt, ergo he exists. What we have here is existence in a generated reality. Even as the world he populates is no more than a hallucination or fancified dream state, he is still a thinking being and exists, in a sense, in this generated world. Anyways, good to see someone else sees some philosophical ideas in 'The Matrix'. Take care... Mr. Sartre, over and out and pondering the absurdity of life...
THE MATRIX SUCKED!!!!! by Denny Colt	Mar 14th, 2000 02:27:51 AM
If THE MATRIX had stuck to it's martial arts themes, I would be praising it now with the rest of you suburban media chugging idiots. The Hong Kong action films that THE MATRIX rips off at least present similar violence within complex morality plays. I think they encourage the viewer to examine the simulated violence that they have seen, and also presents the violence as having consequences. Now whether that takes the form of a room full of dead bodies or the lives of hospital patients (as in HARD BOILED, of course) these Hong Kong films do not shy away from showing you the aftermath of violence. Now many MATRIX fans would probably retort that the victims of the lobby massacre were not even human, therefore the effects of watching such violence is negated. Right? My only answer to that would be with a question. Have you ever been shot? I haven
On the origin of all stories... and Gymkata by Robin Goodfellow	Mar 14th, 2000 02:42:40 AM
SonOfSiskel, you brought up a point of finding the inspiration for films like 'The Matrix' and the works of Phillip K. Dick would lead to a string of talented writers and artists etc. You be correct-o, sir. I read somewhere, don't remember where it was though, that in reality there have only been about ten or so original stories ever made and that all the stories we're seeing right now (the films, the plays, the books, the other mediums) are merely spin offs and different takes on these tales. Take, for example, 'Romeo and Juliet'. Seems original? Well, trace it back a couple centuries and what you find is a similar tale of star crossed lovers named Pyramis and Thisby. Trace it back further and you'll probably get similar tales passed on by oral tradition. Cain and Abel? Look back to Romulus and Remus. Sure, different impetus for killing brothers, but they killed brothers, didn't they? Adam and Eve eat apple and gain knowledge then get punished, look at Prometheus who steals fire from the gods and then gets punished. Current Broadway musical 'Rent' is just a modern day version of the old French musical 'La Boheme'. More so, we notice reoccuring themes in tales (a little Jung-ian collective unconscious, anyone?) like Beowulf relating, in some ways, to the epic of Gilgamesh or the realtion of the tale The Odessy to all other tales of trips that change the traveller. I like rambling... By the way, Beastmaster on DVD would be cool... but how about 'GYMKATA' on DVD? Yup, Gymkata... Gymnastics and kung-fu with Reagan style hodge podge mixed in. Essential to any collection because it's the pinnacle of American cinema. GYMKATA FOREVER!!! Peace
science in SF by Cruijf	Mar 14th, 2000 02:51:15 AM
Just want to comment on slugworth and the discussion of the "science" behind the matrix. In principle as well in any imaginable practice he is right: humans are a lousy form of energy, as are all (warm blooded) animals (That is why everbody should be a vegetarian). BUT of course that is not what matters. What matters is if the matrix was a fun movie, and it was. Furthermore if we ever (as humanity) get in the situation that the sun is blocked, at least TWO forms of almost eternal energy are still left: (i) the tide energy from the moons gravity affecting large water surfaces, and (ii) thermal energy from the geological active inner earth itself (which is radio actively fueled by the way). Now i am thinking of it, we also could get fusion to work (which is not impossible, only cold fusion probably is). Or we could send solar panels in orbit, or etc ... Anyway, those robots in matrix where stupid, but they made for a good movie.
Matrix Anime by Goldcross	Mar 14th, 2000 03:41:37 AM
No! Don't make matrix into manga. Unless they get the people who did Ghost in thr shell to do it. But the matrix is basically ghost in the shell anyway but with keanu in it.
Ghost in the Shell was over-hyped CRAP!!! by BV	Mar 14th, 2000 03:59:08 AM
That's right, you heard me...CRAP!!! It was 90% Bladerunner rip-off and 10% originality. I rented it, fortunately, and MAN was i disappointed. Nothing but hype hype hype!
Broad sentiments, Denny Colt. Too broad in fact... by Dave_F	Mar 14th, 2000 03:59:15 AM
It would seem your reaction to the success of THE MATRIX has clouded your mind! Yes, real violence is bad. THE MATRIX, however, featured cartoonish violence on the order of a DIE HARD flick - about as harmless as anything, I should think. Non-violent guy that I am, I must say that pretend violence is cool in many action movies. Most action movies can really be described as simple revenge fantasies - merely entertaining outlets for aggression. Good guys vs. bad guys, you know? For a more serious movie, say a Scorcese flick, the violence is portrayed more realistically, and rightly so. Real violence is disturbing. THE MATRIX, like DIE HARD, LETHAL WEAPON, or PREDATOR, is pretty harmless fantasy stuff. Not for young kids maybe, but teens and up should be able to cope with it without picking up an uzi. ******* I was kind of bothered by the shootout with all the cops though. I think Morpheus warned Neo at some point that anyone he didn't know was a potential agent in the Matrix, and therefore a threat, and therefore expendable. Okay, I can accept the concept, but you'd think Neo would have a little remorse for shooting up a bunch of cops who were, in fact, wholly innocent, being just a bunch of schlubs who didn't know they were living in a dream world and being manipulated by evil computers. Now that was one hell of an adrenaline-pumping scene, clearly meant to showcase the bad-assedness of the heroes, but I would've liked to have seen the moral ambiguity addressed following the slaughter. Maybe in the sequel. ********* By the way, Denny, suggesting that Woo and his Hong Kong brethren really showcase the consequences of violence is just plain wrong. The violence in HARDBOILED might've been grittier than in THE MATRIX, but it was still ultimately cartoonish escapism and little more. Woo paints a great violent melodrama and does engage the emotions a bit, but in the end, I leave the theater wanting to grab two pistols and go cap some bad guys (or maybe play some Rainbow Six, but you see my point). I'm very dubious that Woo's flicks "encourage the viewer to examine the simulated violence that they have seen", as you say, at least not in any meaningful way. Woo's movies glamorize gunplay, pure and simple, and I've never talked to anyone who left one of his movies contemplating the awful nature of violence or the deadly proliferation of handguns. GOODFELLAS and SAVING PRIVATE RYAN are better examples of movies that make viewers uneasy with violence. I'll post later as to exacly why THE MATRIX was so succesful and why you don't have to fear like it's the Antichrist. Too tired now.
The glory that is Gymkata by DrakeTungsten	Mar 14th, 2000 04:12:11 AM
God bless you Robin Goodfellow! I thought I was the only one who understood the glory that is Gymkata but you have proven otherwise. Directors everywhere need to draw inspiration from this classic. Hopefully Neo will utilize a pommel horse while fighting in the Matrix sequels. Gymnastics always make a fight scene better.
anime by quin2323	Mar 14th, 2000 07:43:20 AM
I agree with some of your. Anime sucks. I have never seen one that did not give me a headache. They are slow, have plots which either make no sense or are just lame. Big eyes, weird expressions, bad acting. just bad bad bad. I just don't understand why people think that they are so good. it is a mystery. (Yes I have seen all the "good" ones including ghost in the machine, akira, etc... all suck). Most of them are just kiddie porn anyways. Japan is sick.
Why bother then? by Goldcross	Mar 14th, 2000 08:01:40 AM
They'll just go with what is popular at the time, and end up with some cg generated pap that the makers will shove down our throat, till it comes out the other side. By that time everything will just be the same as everything else and we'll just end up watching the same film over and over again. Everything in science fiction is ripped off something else as is every single story, because they all boil down to the same ingredients, usually good vs evil, it becomes how good the eye candy is and NOT where the story comes from. WANKERS !!!!!!!!!
Anime is irritating by RipReaver	Mar 14th, 2000 08:30:48 AM
Anime is the most annoying, irritating thing ive ever seen, those frigging bug-eyed cheesy moving "japanimation" characters are unbelievably annoying. i HATE that stuff. i feel better now that ive told the world. better of Dead was a great movie.
If you liked the Matrix, you can just go grab your ankles! by Darth Philbin	Mar 14th, 2000 08:36:00 AM
Here is a much better future for "The Matrix". Get Freddie Prinze Jr. to take over as Neo. Then, scrap the whole sequel concept and sell the rights to the USA Network. Have them crank out a weekly series as part of their new ACTION PACK Fridays or some shit like that. I think it would work well crammed between "Cleotitra 2069" and "Mortal Kombat Babies". The sad part about it is that the Whatcockski Brothers are laughing all the way to the bank after cashing in on a cinematic sci-fi rip-off fest. In no way is Keanu Reeves as the sperm-gurgling Cyber-Christ any sort of modern myth. I'd rather watch 3 hours of Jar-Jar Binks running around with a clothespin on his cock than see anything that comes from the plaguristic minds of those fucking Mario Bros. Piss!
CORNBALL. CORNBALL. CORNBALL. by :-o	Mar 14th, 2000 08:48:05 AM
Matrix Schmatrix. Star Wars has chunks of this 'saga' in it's stool.
slugworth: Science and the Matrix.. by seuss2	Mar 14th, 2000 09:27:58 AM
You are right about the implausability of the Matrix, and you did a good job on the math etc. But I think it's just a bit pedantic. "Science" was never the point of The Matrix. It was incidental to it. In the Literature world it has always been known that when approaching certain stories the reader, or viewer in this case, has to be willing to suspend his disbelief in order for the story to work. The Matrix didn't work for you because you wanted it to do its science homework. The Matrix was not about how a race of AI computers might take over the world, it was about how humans deceive themselves. I'm not saying that the Matrix was any deep work of philisophical Literature or anything, just that you can't judge it on the basis of good science, it never made any claims for itself in that area.
Thanks Monkey Lord by soulbndr	Mar 14th, 2000 09:51:58 AM
Thanks for returning to the cave to awaken me
Anime. by ColdSun	Mar 14th, 2000 11:14:27 AM
Whoever said anime was going to die with Pokemon knows absolutely nothing about anime. Anime is an entertaining art form from Japan that has a HUGE and GROWING audience in the US. No, not the tentacle sex anime - the real stuff like Ninja Scroll, Fist of The North Star, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, Armitage 3, Record of Lodoss War... And many more. These things have only served to inspire american animators and comic book artists. Anime is going to die? It has existed for a very long time and its influence is being seen now in our own movies - The Matrix, Titan AE (the animation is very anime-like). People are just fools sometimes. Because they do not like or understand something they say things that are stupid. It is stupid to say anime will die. Now relating Pokemon to good classic anime is like relating a Hyndai to a Lamgorgini. Hyndai is a shit car... Pokemon is shit anime. Lamborgini is nice car - classic anime is quality animation and good stories. And because people like me exist, people with imaginations, that enjoy anime and movies like The Matrix then anime will always exist. ColdSun
Why watch it then? by ColdSun	Mar 14th, 2000 11:18:53 AM
If it is so irratating then simply don't watch it. Just like all forms of entertainment there is shit and there is good stuff. It certainly isn't mostly kiddie porn as you state it. Go back to you unimaginative little zone and watch The Horse Whisperer or something. Anime rocks and is only getting better and better as America has entered the fray. LONG LIVE ANIME!!!
The Matrix was just bizarre. by zenkaren	Mar 14th, 2000 11:26:59 AM
I enjoyed the exciting bits of The Matrix -- the look and feel of it was quite nice (borrowed heavily from Blade Runner, except it should have rained more.) But most of the slow bits were painfully cliche. I'm not upset that they borrowed concepts, I'm happy that they at least borrowed interesting ones instead of the well that Hollywood continuously sucks dry. What I WAS annoyed with was how ham-fisted they were about presenting the concepts. Morpheus's longwinded explanation of the Matrix was just painfully dry and pointless. It was a very simple concept and they treated it like they were explaining quantum mechanics to fourth graders. "I can't TELL YOU what the Matrix is, you have to SEE IT." Stop pussying around. You could explain it in one decently written sentence, but instead you choose to waste half an hour of screen time with it. The other bit that stands out in my mind as "bad concept presentation" was the little "humanity as a virus" speech the head evil G-Man gave to Morpheus. If he had just said it casually, I would have had no problem with it, instead it was presented as a BIG COOL CONCEPT and was something I've heard before a hundred times, which made it fall completely flat. "So I see you've read Vonnegut, Mr. Agent." Then there was the truly stupid Trinity falling for Neo -- where the hell did THAT come from? "You can't die, because the oracle told me I loved you and you can't blah blah and now I love you blah blah" If they had done at least one iota of foreshadowing, I could have bought it. I'm not stingy with the suspension of disbelief. Instead it was a tacked on bit of moronic melodrama that came really close to ruining the entire movie for me. The lobby scene made a cool music video, but I was annoyed that they didn't crank up the soundtrack a bit more. At least in the theatre and when I saw it again on video, the excellent song in the background that I can't remember the name of was almost drowned out by all the gunfire. But, as a music video, you're left with the sensation of, "Okay, that was cool, but why the hell was it there?" I also thought the agents were stupid. All this bullshit about stinky humans and the incessant over-acting made them one of the worst parts of the movie. They were stupid computers that never came close to inspiring fear in me because they were intrinsically flawed and you knew it from the first conversation they had with Neo -- perhaps even from when Trinity so easily eluded them in the beginning. Make all the agents cool computers like Mr. Liquid Metal Terminator and then you're talking some fear. Maybe they'll axplain these things in the sequels. There's the potential for a larger story there which could make most of my little problems with the first one make sense in the larger scheme of things or at least fade away. If they're written well, of course, and take into account the flaws or oversights of the first movie. It really wouldn't take much. Explain where the hell the love thing came from, explain why the "supposedly a product of super computer intellgience" agents are so dumb and behave like neurotic fourteen year olds. So, I didn't hate the movie, I dug the kung-fu, the concepts were nice to see on screen even if they were explained in a boring, heavy-handed fashion. Keanu played a good EveryMan Hero, the atmosphere was very nice, the effects were okay, if a little tacky by today's standards. (That spinning effect has been done to death now -- though so has liquid metal.) If you cut about forty-five minutes from that movie, it'd probably be a thousand times more enjoyable for me. And so on.
Woah.... by Glengarry	Mar 14th, 2000 12:24:21 PM
Cool talkback guys, I could read this all day. Keep it coming. Glengarry.
All movies borrow from other stories ... by X-P.A.	Mar 14th, 2000 12:42:08 PM
Isn't there a theory or concept that states there are only nine original stories in the world? (Don't ask me what the nine stories are, I've no clue. But just picture how many sit-coms have created a "Wonderful Life" or "Evil Twin" episode.) Besides the possiblity that the Wachowski's have been inspired by Philip K Dick, they probably have also been inspired by James Cameron or Harlan Ellison. The theme of "The Matrix" is the same as "The Terminator" -- man vs machine (that's one of those nine stories, eh?). Even the backstory is similar -- Man creates AI, AI turns on its maker, AI takes over planet, man fights back using the technology AI has created (The Matrix or the time travel machine the AI in "The Terminator" created to send the first T-100 back in time to kill John Connor). In turn, Harlan Ellison supposes James Cameron borrowed from a story he wrote for "The Twilight Zone". "The Matrix" also borrows from the story of Jesus Christ, or really any "Chosen One" mythology. In fact, Neo (One) is called "The One." Luke Skywalker is "The One," too, although his father is also "The One." One of them is the one, anyway. You know, the "One who brings balance to the Force." So is Clint Eastwood as "The Man with No Name." There are all kinds of "Chosen Ones" out there (maybe that's story two?). Morpheus talks about how humans are fed humans to sustain them. My question is, is this produced by an AI company calling its product "Soylent Green"? And let's not even get into the notion of a postapocolyptic world (see "A Boy and his Dog," "Mad Max," "Waterworld," "The Postman," and other underrated Kevin Costner films). And as for our hero get sucked into a computer matrix and fighting the evil computers running the program, what about ... come on people, say it with me ... "TRON"? Maybe Jeff Bridges or Barry Bostwick's character is the character Morpheus speaks of? Jeff Bridges is sucked into a computer and has to play "computer games" in an effort to defeat the otherwise undefeatable CPU. (And mark Tron down as one of the Chosen Ones.) And there must be other examples of other movies. What about the little watched Denzel Washington film where the evil spirit jumps from body to body? Kind of like what the agents do, huh? Or a submarine-type vehicle roaming around on its own trying to get away from tentacled beasts ... didn't Jules Verne and Disney handle this with "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea?" "No, not Neo ... Nemo." (Another name sidenote ... I already wrote one about taking the O and moving it to the beginning of Neo's name -- you get One -- but did you ever notice that Nemo backwards is Omen?) And one of those posters back there was right about "The Matrix" being about "the cave." I saw that special on The Learning Channel a couple months ago, too.
To Soulbndr by Monkey Lord	Mar 14th, 2000 12:47:41 PM
Righto. :) I should have made my analogy more concrete to begin with, but I was afraid my original post would be too long anyway...hehe
To Mr. Sartre by Monkey Lord	Mar 14th, 2000 12:53:48 PM
Likewise, friend. However, I must admit it's quite hilarious to read your post about The Cogito, Descartes, and Continental Rationalism in general, and then read the title of the next post, "The Matrix Sucked!!!!" or some such...hahaha... Quite an interesting mix of humanity we have here at the Talk Back... which only reinforces my notion that there should be another major Political Platform here in the US: The Plutocrats..."Vote Monkey Lord for Philosopher King!" hehe
Matrix's nod to Phil K Dick by Cugel	Mar 14th, 2000 01:22:42 PM
Excellent talkback btw, way more interesting than the usual "This sucks/ This rocks" back & forth. Anime prequel - could work, but well after M2 and 3 -- and they should push the envelope for anime as they did for the look of the flick itself. As far as Philip K. Dick getting his props goes, trepanned, interestingly enough the movie does send out a subtle salute; at the start of the film, the hollowed-out book containing Neo's hacker disks is titled "Simulations and Simulacra". I've watched this addictive movie once or twice too often, true, but I like these little nods to authors, films & genres that were incorporated pretty seamlessly into the storyline.
YES!!! Battle of the Planets aka Gatchaman aka G-Force RULES! by superninja	Mar 14th, 2000 01:42:08 PM
Man, that was one great cartoon. Except for that stupid kid and the fat guy. Why do most anime cartoons have to have the stupid kid and the fat guy?
Everyone borrows from everyone. by superninja	Mar 14th, 2000 01:55:16 PM
Fashion, film, music -- it's all recycled. When was the last time someone did something our culture could truly deem "original"? I for one, do not care if it's original, as long as it's delivered well. I thought the Matrix did that. Again, not the second coming as some would make it out to be, but it was effective in telling a simple story and dazzling you with special effects. Lucas certainly didn't do anything original when he made SW. It was taken from bits and pieces of his own love for cinema. It's when people start trying to SAY they're original when they're not is when it gets irritating. What's original to me is when someone can take an old concept and breathing new life into it -- making people look at it in a another light.
A very interesting article in last month's Vanity Fair about the by superninja	Mar 14th, 2000 02:00:54 PM
It basically said how America looked to the stars -- the excitement of the Lunar Landing, Tomorrowland, the Sci-Fi boom -- and how it's all diminished now. Instead, we are recycling the past to create the future, i.e. Futurama (no explanation needed there), BladeRunner (with its Film Noir feel), Austin Powers...And how it's all tied into the lack of originality that currently exists in our culture. We're no longer pushing the envelope, because the excitement of reaching for the stars (as a culture) is gone. Anyone have thoughts about that?
I watched Battle of the Planets religiously as a kid... by Dave_F	Mar 14th, 2000 02:01:03 PM
...along with the mighty Starblazers. Couple months back I saw Battle of the Planets on the cartoon network though, and realized all the names were different and the voices re-dubbed (whether for better or worse I don't know - I only know I missed the voices of my childhood dammit!). Couldn't get up the interest to watch it in that form. ****** Now...Jason (as he was called in the version I originally watched), was easily cooler than leader-guy Mark. The classic anime scoundrel/hero. Best episode was the two-parter that involved some sort of Body Snatchers-type alien pods, ultimately vulnerable to human blood as I recall. Oh, and the one where the Phoenix was destroyed ruled too (same episode?). Loved the re-used footage, like that perpetual ping-pong match in their rec room, or the rising of the Phoenix ship when the mission began. I have vague memories of bad guy Zoltar being unmasked in a flash of light once, and long hair flashing briefly. I recall debating with friends over whether he might actually be a chick - shocking! Then again, knowing the Japanese fascination with sexually ambiguous characters as I do now, he might well have just been an effeminate-looking guy. Damn cool show, whatever the case. Remember the gal's yo-yo bombs? Or how they shattered the glass every time they fired missiles from the ship? God, what a kick-ass show to see as a kid. Alright, now I do have to see it again, screwy voices or not! Where's it running anime-hounds?
Pretty sure Zoltar was a chick. That was the big shocking endin by superninja	Mar 14th, 2000 02:08:29 PM
I remember the leader guy fighting her/him and pulling of there mask and it was a hot blonde chick (well, hot as anime chicks go anyway). But there are so many versions of this cartoon, I wasn't sure if it was right or not. I recently bought vids of a NEW version of G-Force, which was much more adult, but also CHEEZIER!! What is it with anime and LAME gimmicks. The cool Jason character threw feathers or something cheez like that.
Superninja - Re: death of the space age by Dave_F	Mar 14th, 2000 02:10:55 PM
I'll have to check out that article, though it's certainly not earth-shattering news. A lot of people point to Star Wars as the killing blow of our fascination with space. After those awesome space-dogfights (unrealistic sound and everything) and the whole space opera thing, NASA looked downright boring in comparison. I truly hope that the current Mars hype might re-ignite public interest, as it certainly has to some degree. Too bad "Mission to Mars" had to rain on the parade, but I'm hopeful for one or two of the other Mars projects in the works. My own personal suggestion to NASA is to make space flight seem cool and dangerous. Paint tiger teeth on the nose of the shuttle so it looks like a World War II fighter. Maybe even a sexy babe on the side to give the boys some morale. And what about strapping some missiles on under the wings? They don't even have to be real, but they'll look cool as hell! Last but not least, NASA can always boost their PR by sending an everyman into space...maybe that Homer Simpson fella...
Cormorant, slapping some cute paint and fake missles on the Spac by superninja	Mar 14th, 2000 02:24:01 PM
Well, that might be an exaggeration, but you get my drift.
g-force was cool until cartoon network got hold of it or when it by darthpsychotic	Mar 14th, 2000 02:25:56 PM
that crumbsucker turner reedited battle of the planets episodes taking out the cool psychedelic acid metal background music and replacing it with some new age/yanni monkey crap. however, i prefer the cartoon networks version vastly over what happen to it when it moved to saturday mornings and it was re-edited to make it more appealing to children. all of the cool violent parts were edited out and added in their place was JAR JAR LIKE characters 7 zark 7 and 1 rover 1 which was a r2d2-like robot and a robotic- like dog respectively. IMO g-force/gatchaman/battle of the planets WAS THE BEST CARTOON EVER!! it mature storyline drama is unsurpassed to this day. something that HBO cartoon spawn the sh*thead(well he looks like one!) can only dream about. :p
Yeah, but the rewards...! by Dave_F	Mar 14th, 2000 02:33:53 PM
Just think of it, Superninja, a NASA program backed wholeheartedly by all of us Star Wars and Matrix junkies. $10 million's a drop in the bucket if NASA could bring in some movie-style revenues with their ass-kicking new look. And they need to lose the "exploration" angle too. Not aggressive enough. We need to talk about missions to Mars as though we're going to conquer the place! "Operation: Crimson Takedown", that'd be what I'd call it. All astronauts should be issued pistols and holsters too, and the space suits need to switch from white to black, like the cool Russian pilot in "Firefox." By the way, did I mention I'm just kiddin'? The tiger teeth would be cool though...
I'm shocked and amazed by Snipehunter	Mar 14th, 2000 03:42:24 PM
I'm pretty amazed that through this whole discussion, with everyone screaming at everyone else to read, learn, be educated, or just plain admit the movie was plagerism at its finets that no one has mentioned Jack Chalker and The Wonderland Gambit. I mean sure Dick was the father of it all, but they didn't lift whole freakin characters from his work did they?
Maybe sound hokey, but if I was NASA, I'd try to incorporate som by superninja	Mar 14th, 2000 03:44:17 PM
The more realistic ones, of course :P By the way, why can't they do a REALISTIC Mars movie, like "Apollo 13 on Mars"? M2M looks whack. And yes, the robot character in G-Force was shite. Just like in Thundercats -- imagine what that cartoon could've been like without Snarf, WileyKit and WileyCat.
Plutocrats... alas, only in Utopia by Mr. Sartre	Mar 14th, 2000 03:59:10 PM
I'd be all for the Plutocrats and you for philosopher king, MokeyLord... The only problem is a political party based on Plato's Republic wouldn't do so hot in society today. Face it, in a time in age when the Reform party can get some of its circus oddities elected as high ranking officials, it'd be a wonder if thinkers were elected as leaders. Alas... And yes, we got a varied group of posters in the ol' talkback, don't we? Take care, all... Mr. Sartre over and out and pondering the absurdity of life...
Rasta by Stainles Steel	Mar 14th, 2000 04:24:04 PM
Why not ditch this idea of a matrix anime movie and do an anime movie of the orbital Rastas in Neuromancer? THAT would be fun!
soundtrack by phriedom	Mar 14th, 2000 07:58:25 PM
The music during the gunfight with the soldiers in the lobby is Spybreak by the Propellerheads. Speaking of William Gibson stories, Johnny Mnemonic (the movie) was so very bad that it may be quite some time before you see orbital rastafarians, or anything else he wrote. Which is too bad because is was a great short story but they took all the cool things out and put in typical Hollywood save-the-world crap. It also helps explain why The Matrix stands out so much. There are just SO MANY BAD Sci-Fi movies, that anything with some verisimilitude is well loved. It is not that using humans as a power source is credible, it is that IF they did, we can believe the crops would look like that. If you could jump from one building to another, that is what it would look like.
AKIRA AND GHOST IN THE SHELL ARE NOT REALLY GOOD REPRESENTATIVES by hrc	Mar 14th, 2000 08:38:38 PM
to: QUIN2323 Sorry for the screaming (capitalisation of the subject) but I want people to know that there are more to Anime than Akira or Ghost in the Shell, which I admit are quite difficult to understand. But I'm tired of people assuming Akira/Ghost in the Shell=Anime or Sailor Moon/Pokemon=Anime or Anime=child pornography. It is understandable that most people only knows Anime from Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Pokemon, Sailor Moon or the typical hentai (porn)/horror anime such as La Blue Girl. However they are not good representatives of representatives of anime IMHO. And in case you want to know, there is a reason why some anime opted for the big eyes. It allows the animator to express the feelings of the character more discreetly. For example, the 'big eyes' are often used to display the true feelings of the character. A glazed eyes would indicated that even though a character is smiling, there is certain sadness in him/her. By utilising bigger eyes, it is easier to achieve this effect than if the eyes are small. Anyway, here's my suggestion of some good anime in case you are willing to give it a chance and leave your prejudice of the country/people that creates it. You'll see that there are more to Anime than confusing plots and pornography and that not all anime characters have those 'big' anime eyes. 1. Cowboy Bebop 2. Neon Genesis Evangelion 3. Fushigi Yugi (Mysterious Play) 4. Serial Experiment Lain (don't watch this unless you're into David Lynch/Cronenberg sort of film but it is a good 'weird' film). 5. Vision of Escaflowne 6. Rurouni Kenshin 7. Key the Metal Idol 8. Garasaki 9. Saber Marionette J 10. Gundam 11. Slayers 12. My Neighbour Totoro 13. Laputa: Castle in the Sky 14.Grave of the Fireflies 15. Brain Powerd 16. Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro. 17. City Hunter 18. Tenchi Muyo 19. Perfect Blue 20. Ranma 1/2 All of these titles are quite different from the usual fares you mentioned (Akira, etc) and they all have different types of storylines.
you forgot a few anime by Cremlian	Mar 14th, 2000 10:21:59 PM
Utena,Record of The Lodoss wars, and Nadesico should also be on your list man:-)
Re: The death of the Space Age. by Sith Lord Jesus	Mar 14th, 2000 11:29:28 PM
I think that we Americans are currently in a period of . . .mmmm . . .retrenchment and introspection, historically speaking. We're no longer interested in exploration and discovery like our forbears; it's too difficult and uncomfortable. And expensive. "That's our tax money you're playin' with, NASA! We'd rather spend it here on nice earth bound pork-barrel projects and graft." Ain't no percentage in trailblazing, is there? Besides, someone might get hurt, and we can't have that, can we? Well, the good news is that future generations will likely have other ideas on that subject. As well, the US is not the whole world; so even if we over here remain too lazy to get out there and conquer the stars other nations may not. China and India are just getting their space programs off the ground, for example, and they may decide that an O'Neil Colony to offset some of their very large populations or a solar power satellite to beam solar energy to earth would not be a waste of money at all. Also the Russians could always put themselves back together down the road--never count Ivan out for long! And of course there's Japan, the European Space Agency with their Ariane (sp?) booster . . .you'd be surprised how fast things can change. Anyway, to at least try to get back on topic, I think that while MATRIX kicks ass, what I'd really love to see is a good, realistic mission-to-Mars epic, which is what M2M tried and failed to be. Ron Howard or James Cameron could work wonders with such material, provided it contained that all-important "sense of wonder." That's what I want--a film that would make me feel the way I did the first time I heard the theme song from MACROSS PLUS. So, I guess I believe that one way or another, space is our future.
Nuts to Utopia by Monkey Lord	Mar 14th, 2000 11:45:28 PM
Actually, I have a daring plan... see, Beastman (our duo being known as Axis Mundi)and I intend to move into Texas, and infiltrate their inner workings...become a part of their infrastructure... Then, by subtly manipulating the innate patriotism and rugged independance of the average Texan, we will secede from the continental united states, and establish our Plutocrat society. I will give all my stuff to the state, for ownership by the people, and agree to make all the important decisions myself (with my staff of hand selected thinkers)... With the implied agreement being that I make good decisions that will improve the life of the Texan, and they will agree to shut up and enjoy the peace and justice I will bring them... the Pax Simian, they will call it hundreds of years from now... Vote Monkey Lord of King of Texas! (or the U.S... i'll just have to do a lot of deporting if I win...)
REALITY CHECK by Zone Zero	Mar 15th, 2000 01:14:08 AM
Has there been any REAL verification on this? or are you guys chomping on Red Herrings?!? I'll believe it when I see it.
About Matrix, Anime and other Musings by ToqueMan	Mar 15th, 2000 01:40:03 AM
I've been reading through alot of different opinions on anime and I am realizing that alot of people are making a judgement on something they know nothing about. Denouncing anime simply because the characters have "big eyes" is a blantant display of ignorance. To those people who made these claims, how much anime have you watched? Have you even sat down and watched a quality anime?? Anime in Japan is very big business and is a rich, lucrative industry. It's like a Hollywood of the East. I highly suggest that you check out some good anime. It's not all "big eyes" and lame dialogue. Some of our movies have some pretty brutal lines in them as well. (see: Star Wars) The Matrix is an impressive North American representation of Anime. Anime is heavily influenced by the Japanese Samurai movies from Akira Kurosawa and others in the 1950s. These movies involved the viewer with passionate displays of basic human emotion ie. the triumph of good over evil, honor, love, hate. I find the Matrix incorporates these feelings very well. Go watch Neon Genesis Evangelion... Then tell me that anime sucks. Also, next time your spout your mouths off of how Big eyes are dumb, ask yourself why the characters' eyes are drawn so large and round. Perhaps if you can figure that out you'll be able to appreciate art from a different culture. My head's getting too warm. ToqueMan "You are hereby punished to watching Gremlins 2 for 4 hours!" "NOOOOOOOOO!"
La Rothrock in Matrix 2 by SpyBoy	Mar 15th, 2000 07:39:51 AM
This woman deserves to be in the Matrix, she's been kicking ass for years now, she was kickin' ass while Trinity was still in diapers, I don't care how tough Trinity is, this woman's tougher.... and I'll leave now because nobody's listening anyway.
Tell me Princess Mononoke didn't get great reviews from American by jclin524	Mar 15th, 2000 09:23:44 AM
Anyway, I just wish ignorant people would stop giving their opinions, if you haven't seen classics such as Grave of Fireflies, or Laputa, do not criticize on something you do not know. BTW, is AICN going to do something about X the movie, its coming out in a few days!!!!
Brilliant movie! by Maniaq	Mar 15th, 2000 09:57:19 AM
You guys... you guys really make me laugh sometimes. I must admit I kinda skipped to the end after a while, so maybe someone's already said all this B4... BUT: Suspension of disbelief - some of us got it, some of us don't got it - those that do can sit down and enjoy watching a film, no matter how ridiculous it may seem to those that don't. Mazinger, thanx very much for an absolutely brillian idea - just when I thought this discussion was starting to degenerate, you came along with something I'd never considered before - something fresh - which is a great thing to give someone. Now for my two cents - just wanted to toss my own little philosophical bit into the mix. Have you considered just how/why Neo won, in the end? It was not through use of lots of guns - it was because he was human. Computers are limited where humans are not - because an "agent" is just a souped up computer program, and limited by its programming. Humans know no such limitations and are ultimately better equipped to deal with, say, a division by zero... Just a thought
The Wachowski Brothers Raped My Early Twenty-Somethings! by Orpheus	Mar 15th, 2000 06:01:07 PM
Sorry, I couldn't resist. You know, the only thing I didn't like about the Matrix was that it took some much deserved praise away from TPM this summer. Other than that, it was great. It WAS a myth. Classic Joseph Campbell. I mean, did any of you notice all the birth imagery when No woke up in the Power Plant? (Ambiotic fluid, umbiblical cords, birth canal, pulled into the light, he was hairless, etc.) It kinda leads me to believe that perhaps there are other Matrix worlds out there. Rumor has it that Trinity will be trapped in one and that will be the Big Matrix II cliffhanger. I love when Neo sees the Matrix encoded after he resurrects. That's when he becomes The Master of Two Worlds that Campbell spoke of. Great stuff. I'v really enjoyed reading all this, I jsut have to say. When Talkback works, it does work. And I totally agree with the Plato cave parable. Keep it up, fellow philospher kings. Oh, and in case anyone cares, it was Samuel Taylor Coleridge who coined the phrase "willing suspension of disbelief."
A PREQUEL?. . .NOW THAT'S A DAMN SHAME. . . by sexualchocolate1	Mar 15th, 2000 07:59:36 PM
The header pretty much says it all, but I wanna add onto it. Ever since the Star Wars prequel just last year, follows a whole bunch of unneccesary prequel plans, mainly to movies that suck already. For example, as bad as the original was for the "Blair Witch", they actually bother to create two new "Blair Witch" prequels!? PLEASE! Now, I actually want to see them come out with two new sequels, but Warner Brothers, stay away from the prequel!...Alright, I'm done...
Nasa Scenario!! by SonofSiskel	Mar 15th, 2000 08:47:38 PM
Love reading the current talk back Dish. I have a plan to help Nasa out..ok its a rip off of WAG THE DOG..Nasa hires ILM to create a race of killer aliens..they present them to the world being from Mars .They are hostile aliens the type that would use the Mars Rover as a skateboard doing 720's midair nose grabs and mocking us as an intellectual species. They launch an attack, and we counter attack with spaceshuttles armed with fake missles and lasers. Each shuttle crew consists of 2 pilots, a Sports illustrated swimsuit model, an oil driller, an everyman (like Harry knowles) a comedian, a bad@$$ Ex-Naval seal,etc. We kill em save the day. Id like to add myself as a fan of battle of the planets. Transssssmute!!!!! Move over Jason I want to press that missle fire button on the Pheonix.
Slugworth on Suspension of Disbelief by Slugworth	Mar 15th, 2000 11:32:14 PM
Okay, I hate posting on TB after EVERYONE has finished reading, but I just couldn't resist in this case. Anyhow, suspension of disbelief is an important ability that enables one to enjoy just about any peice of fiction. It shouldn't be used as an all-inclusive alibi when a premise in a film is a obviously contrived peice of garbage. Suspension of disbelief enables you to watch the good guys nail the bad guys with one bullet, while the 100's bad guy land one token flesh wound on the good guys. I'm all about this type of suspension of disbelief. However, what if during that infamous exposition, Morpheus sat down in front of Neo a tall glass of Tropicana. He explains that the Bots need humans, so they can convert them into OJ. After all, Morpheus explains, orange juice is just a bunch of biochemicals that can be found in certain percentages in the human body, right? And the Bots really need orange juice as a source of vitamin C and other important nutrients, so they extract these couponds from the human body, mix them together in the right ratios, and put them in the fridge to consume every morning for breakfast. Would not every person reading this, think that was one of the lamest premises they have ever seen? Well, its only slightly lamer than the one THE MATRIX provived. "Suspension of disbelief" is not an excuse to dumb down, sci fi movies. Sorry.
what's so wrong with anime? by William Defoe	Mar 16th, 2000 03:48:42 PM
i understand that the general view point on anime is the big eyed, convoluted plot lines, and some really odd humor - but the span of a prequel would probably be best presented by anime. an entire CG prequel would take forever to make (like Square's FINAL FANTASY movie - they've been working on it since before Final Fantasy VII came out on PSX). and especially since the MATRIX was a live action anime, it would be a perfect addition to the series, showing how the machines took over, mankind fighting against the machines, and the formation of Zion - for the entire span of time that a prequel would take up, then anime would be the best medium. get Yoshitaka Amano to do some of the designs and get some hard core animation, then it would be mind blowing. by the way, anyone seen FEAR EFFECT, a new PSX game that has an awesome anime style? it was done entirely by Americans - so i guess we know a little about the entire anime scene too.
Easy explaination of the calorie issue and possible focus on mat by EL Duderino	Mar 16th, 2000 08:16:57 PM
First the explainations. 1)It's the future (most common explaination for most sci fi's) 2)Since everything in matrix is fake except people, nutrient calculations are also false. 3)What do you think the robots did to the rest of the corpses after the big fight? 4)If the human race can still survive off of a can of runny white food a day, then it is understood that calorie necessity is probably larger in the matrix just because there were so many friggin corpses in the first battle! Now all of these explainations can be killed off with a single fact: the sun got scorched. Without the sun, life is erased, so I assume. That sort of screws up the whole photosynthesis process, don't ya think? Don't be so critical of the Wachowski Bros. Maybe it's just my imagination, but didn't they use to be construction workers? Probably either my imagination, or it was a part-time job of theirs. Moving on, I think that the case involving the robot butler killing his master along with his numerous poodles might be a focus in the new prequel. Just check out that site in my subject title and look under comics.
THE MATRIX MOVIE KICKED @$$!!!IT HAD A COOL ORIGINAL CONCEPT,BUT by jenny1@cajun.net	Mar 16th, 2000 08:19:25 PM

NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF THIS..... by jenny1@cajun.net	Mar 16th, 2000 08:30:46 PM
No way!! Its just like I said above.For example=Take VAN DAMM'S "UNIVERSAL SOLDIER".The first one was good,It had an original concept.But the 2nd movie,they were just beating it to death!!Even WCW'S BILL GOLDBERG could not save that one.The MATRIX was a great movie,I just hope they don't ruin its good name by making lots-o-UNoriginal CRAP!!BASICALLY THEY ARE JUST GOING TO MILK THE CONCEPT FOR EVERYTHING ITS WORTH!!
Please don't make a sequel... by Pop-O-Matik	Mar 16th, 2000 10:03:37 PM
The Matrix was great, It even made me forget Keanu. I just wish the story would end here and now. I'm just scared about the sequel or prequel or whatever it will be. With just a few notable Hollywood moves. Keanu will be replaced by Eric Robert and the bad guy will be played by Malcolm McDowell in a special effect orgy that will make you scream Holodeck in no time.
Matrix Stuff by ms_gwyn	Mar 17th, 2000 03:35:55 AM
I have to say that I think the Matrix is the best movie 1999, I've watched it so many times that both my DVD and VHS are wearing out. But I digress... my point. Violence: I did see those guards as humam, but we did not see any type of blood shed and it was fun. Blood and gore generally don't bother me. I can also watch GoodFellas all day long without being phased. But one in in A Bronx Tale, I cringed when I first saw it, the scene with the bikers, that scene was not gorey at all, but the emotion behind the scene the pure unexeptedness of the thing bothered me. Anime: I'm starting to become a fan of the genre and I need to be exposed to more of it, all the pokeman and other cartoons that can be seen on the cartoon network frankly turn me off. Maybe someone could recommend some really good movies that I can watch. The Movie itself and "ripping off": I read somewhere the other day a reviewer of the "best films of the 90s" compared The Matrix to Dark City. Saying that the Matrix is a dumbed down, actioned-up version of Dark City. Now I loved both movies, but I have to watch both one after the other to do a real comparision. Other Comments: Its just a movie, calm down everyone. The Sequels: I truly hope that the sequels are "almost" as good as the original, I'm not expecting a Godfather II, but I'm also not expecting a Scream II or GodFather III
Well, I guess no one is reading down this far ... by Orpheus	Mar 17th, 2000 07:47:36 AM
But anyway - SonofSiskel, excellent idea. Loved it. And to El Whoever, according to the audio commentary on the Matrix DVD, the brothers W. were construction guys before hand. I saw them in a couple of interviews, and as much as I loved the Matrix, its creators looked majorly stoned. They looked like two skateboard dudes left over from 1986. And they're like "Whoa" and "Dude." Made me long for the now famous Moyers/Lucas interview. "Party on Larry." "Party on Andy."
JAPANESE ANIME FLICKS-RECOMMENDED- by jenny1@cajun.net	Mar 17th, 2000 10:51:58 AM
Those maybe interested in seeing some great anime flicks.Should check out-The GUYVER,NINJA SCROLL,WRATH OF THE NINJA,FIST OF THE NORTH STAR,AKIRA,M.D GEIST,M.D GEIST II:DEATH FORCE,NINJA RESURRECTION,GENOCYBER,DARK WARRIOR,HEADMASTERS:TRANSFORME RS and GOLGO 13.And you could find most of them at www.videoflicks.com (Which is also a GREAT place to shop for movies)
I CAN SEE IT NOW,THEY WILL TURN THE MATRIX INTO A FRANCHISE.THEY by jenny1@cajun.net	Mar 17th, 2000 11:22:43 AM
Comics,toys/action figures,a saturday morning TV series,a video crappy video game.And lots of other sh%t!!
Slugworth by Owatonna	Mar 17th, 2000 02:51:33 PM
I also dislike posting after everyone's stopped reading and I know you won't read this. But I just feel the need to put my respect for the orange juice analogy on record. Hit the nail on the head.
Oh puh-leease... by Zadkiel	Mar 18th, 2000 07:00:22 AM
... How can you guys call yourselves proper geekboys. C'mon giving the Matrix crap on the ultimate geekboy message board. And who cares what the next Matrix movie is gonna be. As long as it is made by Wachowskis and Co. it is gonna pretty hard!
Xena vs Neo by Black Knight	Mar 18th, 2000 12:46:10 PM
Great, it had better not be just people claiming to be doing anime who turn out something like the Xena/Hercules animated special. Maybe if they get the people who did the Rally's animated commercials, it would be pretty cool. Even if it was REAL anime, just because it's anime doesn't mean it won't suck. The real question is who's doing it and will it suck?
Voltar, Galactor, no.. Damn you G-force! by Black Knight	Mar 18th, 2000 01:38:04 PM
Battle of the Planets was remade in the 90s as a 3part video series here in America. The English dubbed tape though replaces all the original music with crap in addition. Wonder if there's a subtitled one. The Spriggan movie starts showing in the next month. This movie rocks! Very kinetic action (watched it on a TV and still felt the force). Much hatred towards anime is visible here. Who made the bright comment about people liking anime to fit in? Why undergo the persecution if you don't truly love anime! Such bigoted hatred it seems like rascism. Anyhow, 90% of everything is crap. There's anime for everyone out there, excluding the bigoted. By the way, Voltar, the evil leader in Battle of the Planets was a hermaphrodite (he/she could change sex at will - varied episode to episode). It was an alien.
just stick to 2 &3!!! by bigbenkenobi	Mar 18th, 2000 07:09:07 PM
forget the cartoon!!do 2 &3!!then aftewards do the pre trilogy!in a film!its a real easy formula that works!!i just think anime would be a joke!by the time they could do a real kickass movie it will be 2010!!example(heavy metal II)where the hell is that movie probably will never come out!!

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