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Moriarty's RUMBLINGS FROM THE LAB #30, featuring a talk with William Goldman

Bill Rules by Kraven	Mar 3rd, 2000 06:37:38 AM
Great stuff, O Evil One...back in a few, as my email just flashed that Angelinma Jolie has signed as Lara Croft in Tomb Raider. Gotta check that out!
I completely agree with Mr. Goldman about the second half of Thr by r_dimitri22	Mar 3rd, 2000 06:59:46 AM
...I bought the turn of events of American Beauty. Sure, Lester had been fantasizing about her throughout the entire movie thus teasing the audience with the prospect of a payoff, but her virginity was a huge revelation. Not that I'm in the midst of a middle-age crisis or pining after sultry high schoolers, but I could completely relate to Lester's wanting to spare her innocence. It brought him back to reality, and his respect for it showed that he still had a soul. People might debate whether or not he had truly redeemed himself at the end of the film with respect to his rather selfish behavior, but I think that was the intended effect. (Brief aside: While watching the film, I had been contemplating ways in that Lester might meet his end. The one that I found somewhat humorous was that he would have a heart attack caused by the excitement of sex with Mena's character.) And if Mr. Goldman reads this, I would like to thank him for writing The Princess Bride.
Bill Rules Part II by Kraven	Mar 3rd, 2000 07:10:54 AM
Hi, back again. You know, Moriarty, I love Bill Goldman. I have every novel he's written, and his collected screenplays from Applause. The first time I heard of The Princess Bride was early one saturday morning, when the girl I was dating at the time read me the swordfight between Inigo and Wesley atop the cliffs of insanity ("I'm not left-handed either!"), and I was hooked. That was while I was in London, England, and I immediately bought a copy of the hardback, the version that had H. Morganstern's notes on the text excisions in red print. Great book. Adventures in the Screen Trade is one of the best books about Hollywood ever written (and worth the money just for the scene where Bill witnesses a paranoid Dustin Hoffman tortures the ailing Larry Olivier in Marathon Man). What I like the most about Bill's screenplays is their visual style; of all the zillions of screeplays I have read, I think Bill's have the most elan. Can't wait for his new book. And hey, Moriarty, thanks a lot for posting this so early: the weekend started a lot earlier. Enjoy the Bond Double Bill - man, that fight between Robery Shaw and Connery aboard the Orient Express is the best fight scene in ANY Bond movie, and is mirrored by a similar scene between Jaws and Moore in Spy Who Loved Me (Moore's best Bond, IMHO). Have a great day with the Large One. I'm outta here.
Oh, and Moriarty... by r_dimitri22	Mar 3rd, 2000 07:20:50 AM
I eagerly await the rest of your 90s summary. Are you going to make a ten best list like Ebert and Scorsese did? I want to review their lists, but the Ebert and the Movies site does not seem to be working right now. I thought Scorsese's picks were very interesting. Aside from the foreign films that Scorsese mentioned that I would like to see, the ones from his top ten that jumped out at me were Heat and Eyes Wide Shut. Ebert's list was also interesting, but I have read so much of his writings that I almost could have guessed all ten of his before he even revealed them.
Thanks, Bill by mrbeaks	Mar 3rd, 2000 07:26:01 AM
If you're not writing to entertain yourself, you make an already difficult task unbearable. Goldman's advice is the kind I like to keep posted above my computer, along with Wilder's "How would Lubitsch do it?" For those of us crazy enough to think we can make a career out of screenwriting, Bill Goldman is a patron saint. And, man, was I happy to see you guys discussing SLAP SHOT; one of my favorite movies. Having been raised in a hockey town, I can tell you there is no truer document of the sport (the goon-filled contest at the end included. It's all happened before.) What a great film!
A Perfect Bond Double Feature by mrbeaks	Mar 3rd, 2000 07:29:41 AM
My favorite Bond (FRWL,) and my favorite theme song ("Nobody Does It Better.") Lucky bastards!
I will take that brief mention of Baz Luhrman to say that.. by twindaggerturkey	Mar 3rd, 2000 07:29:49 AM
Baz Luhrman is a JACKASS. (Remember, there is no sex in the champagne room.) Also, I thought that BEING JOHN MALKOVICH was good all the way through but THREE KINGS did just sort of get dumb after the first hour. Spike Jonze made a big impression, though. He sure is cute.
There are still playwrights... by smilin'jackruby	Mar 3rd, 2000 07:34:24 AM
...but have you tried getting something up in the American theater these days? As movies take over the public consciousness, theater is going away quickly and most middle-American regional theaters can only afford to do stuff like "A Thousand Clowns" or "Rumors" because they know the subscribers want to see that. They'll take a chance on a play that was done into a movie like "A Few Good Men," but no major theater, except somewhere like the Steppenwolf or the Alley outside of NYC or LA, can afford to do more than one "risky" show a year, and for the Alley, that means "The Vagina Monologues," which actually just went up in LA. There are still many playwrights trying to get stuff on stage, look at Neil LaBute. His plays weren't done all that much, just festivals and the like, so he went to film. I hate to get personal, but frankly, I'd MUCH RATHER BE WRITING PLAYS FOR STAGE!!!! There's a lot more freedom on stage. A tree doesn't have to be a tree, it can be a ladder with a leaf nailed to it and the audience "gets it." On screen, a tree has to be a tree. I have written for theater for years, gone up around the country, and even went up in New York in '96, but that simply doesn't pay the bills. Now I'm writing in Hollywood and it's a totally different ballgame. Theater and even moreso, radio-theater, is a writer's medium - not film. It is too bad about the American theater and even the state of American letters, which isn't doing as poorly as the theater (they're not making Philip Roth add musical numbers or falling chandeliers to his books yet), still is a viable medium, but lit just isn't selling like it used to. So, you learn to adapt. When the only new play by a new playwright closed this year on Broadway before it could even open, that was the death knell of the well-made play on the Great White Way. When "Seven Guitars" couldn't really pull an audience when it had Keith David, that was pretty sad. This year, Elaine May's new play with Parker Posey and Matthew Broderick may be a success and will probably pack them in for a couple of months, but as Neil Simon said, "When a play is on Broadway you ask, 'who's in it?' when it's Off-Broadway you ask, 'what's it about?" Remember, Simon's most recent play, "Proposals," failed to get an audience on Broadway and even the new Sondheim musical died before hitting the stage. Face it, American theater isn't going to be revived unless people en masse get excited about seeing a show. It happened in England with the stage version of "Trainspotting" and with "Closer," "Popcorn," and "Shopping and Fucking," but people in America want to see "Armageddon" and probably wouldn't exactly sit still long enough to watch something unless it had a "quirk" (like the fact that "Picasso at the Lapin Agile" was written by Steve Martin) or stunt casting (like "Art"). I would like to think that when there are little pop cultural revivals in the theater like when "Angels in America" or "Rent" came out and people talked about theater, this would've started something and a groundswell would've happened. However, those seem to be few and far between. As much as I hate "Cats" and what Andrew Lloyd Webber did to kill theater, when I heard that it was closing, that echoed in box offices all across the country. Soon, Broadway might just have to close all its theaters and re-locate to Las Vegas. End Rant.
Playing Ed McMahon To Jack's Carson...... by mrbeaks	Mar 3rd, 2000 08:17:32 AM
"You are correct, sir!" I moved to New York in '96 to work at the Circle Rep, and was shocked to find the theatre responsible for launching the careers of Lanford Wilson and Paula Vogel in complete disarray. To refresh your memory, the Circle Rep was the only theatre dedicated solely to new works by American playwrights, and when it died, in the fall of '96, there was nothing to take its place. Flash forward to the present..... there's still nothing. I tell myself that, when I begin to make a comfortable living as a screenwriter, I'll turn my hand back to the stage, but I wonder how many successful scribes have entertained the same thoughts, only to remain firmly entrenched in Hollywood. As it stands, this is a dark period for the American Theatre, and, until those of us who have found some measure of success hooking for the studios re-invest our talent in the medium, I fear it will remain dead.
007 by JetAlone	Mar 3rd, 2000 08:23:46 AM
Hey, Harry and Moriarty -- I'll give you a wave from where I'm sitting at the Nuart, cuz there's no way I'm gonna miss this double feature! God, I love LA sometimes.
I walked out after the end of American Beauty the other night... by All Thumbs	Mar 3rd, 2000 08:57:15 AM
...and the first thing I said to my friend was, "I'm so glad he didn't fuck her. It would have ruined the movie." I don't know about "Three Kings" as I haven't seen it, but in "American Beauty" I understand why it went the way it did and think that was the best decision. (I bet it's in the original script, too.) Suvari's character was set up from the begining as this mega-slut who would probably end up on some casting couches in the future. She was a two-dimensional character. It was redeeming as well as refreshing to see her at the end in such a vulnerable state confessing the truth to a man she thinks she loves because he told her what she wants. It showed she was really still just a little girl and I thought it reminded Lester of his own daughter upstairs. It reminded him of what was important. He didn't sleep with her because she was a virgin but because she was someone's daughter and he realized there was something more important in his life. Look at the end where he says he remembered "Jane, Jane, Jane." That movie was wonderful and I'm overjoyed at having the chance to see it in the theatres. Thank God for rereleases in the name of cashing in on Oscar time!!!
DeWitt's Dilemma by Kraven	Mar 3rd, 2000 09:50:47 AM
Firstly, I'm not a nerd (at least nobody ever called me one to my face), but my wife says you might want to try a variation on the following words of wisdom: "Sorry, lover, that willy is just too damn small. Get some prosthetics done, and we'll talk." Hope this helps. If not, there's always Dear Abby.
Three Kings and American Beauty by Loki Trickster	Mar 3rd, 2000 10:12:30 AM
I do agree with "Bill" when it comes to "Three Kings"...I was rather disappointed with the movie after leaving it; the opening hour set up a great departure from standard Hollywood war movies (especially with the description of what happens when you get shot, the Iraqi soldier shot trying to surrender, and the slow motion gun fight where we follow the path of each bullet), but then the second half degenerated into a crappy action movie (especially when Ice Cube blows up the chopper with the football...that was just dumb) and a bit too forced morality play (especially with the annoying overdone parrellels between Wahlberg's character nearly dying because they were not allowed to save him...the symbolism of that was just too forced in my mind). Still, I found it an enjoyable and fairly well done movie, and it got placed in my top 20 of the year. Now...American Beauty, on the other hand...that's number 2 on my list of this year...and I thinkk that Bill is wrong in his assessment. When she claims to be a virgin, you know she's lying, and I think that's when Lester realizes what he's doing, the shallowness of this girl, and how if he were to sleep with her it wouldn't help him. -Loki
I have to totally agree with you All Thumbs by lickerish	Mar 3rd, 2000 10:16:56 AM
The whole movie is building up to that but that's not what the movie's about...If they would have slept together it would possibly have saved his life..at the same time destroying it...and that is tragic, and exciting and wonderful...that amazing song playing with their sihlloettes in the blue on the curtains.. it was the best tension that i'd seen in quite a while..and I was relieved in the right way that he didn't..my boyfriend and my brother watched the film with me four times..and each time was like new...it never seemed like the movie broke in any way...the changes from script to screen were smart ones...what with him flying around with a harp and wings, and such. Didn't Alan Ball say in an interview that he doesn't sleep with her in the script?
did you hear the one about glass house bill by chubby luv	Mar 3rd, 2000 10:37:30 AM
Althought Mr. Goldman is a great writer, he comes off as pompous in this interview. Has anyone ever heard the Matt Damon story about Bill? Apparently Matt went up to Bill in an Hotel to thank him and he thought Matt was his driver. It sounds like Mr.goldman thinks of people as underlings not equals.
Ok, Lickerish... by All Thumbs	Mar 3rd, 2000 11:12:38 AM
Now you've got me wanting to read the original script. Halos and wings? Lester flying about the movie? YIKES...that would have been aweful. I must say I came out of "American Beauty" feeling good. I expected it to be this excellent movie that kind of depressed me in its portrayal of American suburban life, but it didn't. I felt REALLY good and felt Lester was a complete person when he died. I'm also glad we didn't see any scene of the abusive father being taken away in handcuffs and I really liked the way Web Bentley's Ricky smiles as he looks into Lester's eyes and then says "Mom" as if he's suddenly worried and reminded of her importance. Can't wait to see it again. I hope when it comes out on DVD (and soon, please) there's a ton of great stuff. Hell, I'll buy it with just the movie on it.
by samson shillitoe	Mar 3rd, 2000 11:33:17 AM
My favorite Bond film is FRWL and the first one I saw in the theatre was SWLM. Maybe I am secretly Moriarty and become delusional and occasionally believe myself to be a crackpot poet who resembles Sean Connery. Strangest use of music in a Bond film: when Bond arrives in Istambul (not Constantinople)and checks out his hotel room for bugs, the music blasts like it is the most exciting scene ever captured on celluloid. And you get to see it on the big screen!
What about "Brothers" by Ray Garraty #47	Mar 3rd, 2000 11:59:53 AM
In a perfect world, Goldman would stop working on Buttercup's Baby and begin putting together a script for a movie based on "Brothers," Goldman's incredible sequel to "Marathon Man." What the hell? I'm willing to bet that he has been approached by someone regarding this. That novel kicked major ass and everyone I knew who read it agreed that the movie would be awesome...but what's going on? Moriarity, if you read these posts, I'll bet that you have the same opinins that I do...call that guy back and give us the scoop.
SSZero... by All Thumbs	Mar 3rd, 2000 01:09:24 PM
Remember when Moriarty called you a "cretin"...
And Rosebud was just a sleigh... by Zube	Mar 4th, 2000 12:29:38 AM
Let me tell this right... I have never met William Goldman but I love him He writes so beautifully that i can even for give him for some occasionally awfull story lines. He wrote the most perfect opening line for a book i have ever read: "If there was one place Edith never expected trouble, it was Bloomingdales." I probably got that line wrong because i'm doing it from memory. As for Magic "Trust me for a while..." and Marathon Man's amazing run (It was Scylla that got me, the run filled my heart and when it wasn't safe simply took my breath). I even read his amazing crap (Tinsel, The Colour of Light) because he writes nonsense in the most freaking entertaining way. I would bless God if i had one iota of 1 percent of the talent William Goldman has in the nail of his pinky finger. Understand this.... I love William Goldman. DID HE TOTALLY MISS THE POINT OF AMERICAN BEAUTY??? In this story, a good part of it deals with facade and three distinct layers: 1. There is the surface appearance of normailty that people present to the world. 2. There is the ugliness underneath the surface that results from emotions twisted and forced into restrictive boxes. 3. And then there is the beauty and purity that is there if you just look closer. If Lester Burnham had sex with the Angela, he would have died a person who didn't get it, who didn't see the beauty. It saddens me that we live in a world where it it is "unreal" for a sexually aroused man to stop himself because, he realises on some level, that it would be wrong. If he had made love to her, it would have been about some sexualluy frustrated schmuck that cheated on his wife (it does not matter that she was cheating on him unless we still live in the playground) and then got shot in the head. Instead it was a film of poignancy and beauty. I am sorry for all the errors in the above (spelling and understanding). Like i said i do not have much talent with words and so this comes from my heart. I really do love William Goldman.
William Goldman is great, BUT by Nordling	Mar 4th, 2000 05:42:14 AM
like many of you here I think he got it wrong about American Beauty. I think he was transferring his own personal feelings onto a character that quite simply didn't feel that way. I also bought Clooney going back in the house in Out Of Sight, because earlier in the film he said that he despised rape. Dead on about Three Kings, though. About holding films like Something About Mary and Waterboy in high regard - why not? They did EXACTLY as they intended to do. The characters all stayed true to themselves, and the films did what was intended. Films like Titanic, and Armageddon, and Godzilla, and X-Men (you know it to be true) and so forth - those are thought up by studio people. You've got to know this. They're testing, marketing, but there not keeping the movie honest, and that means they're whores. Now, I disagree with Goldman about a lot of things (he thought Schindler's was shit, and I strongly disagree), but he's right about a lot. Unfortunately, he has little power now. To the studios, he's probably equivalent to a two-headed freak - cool to look at, and even to talk to, but not to be taken seriously. And until he writes another killer screenplay, that won't be fucked with by the studios, that will be true for quite some time.
Mr. Goldman Is out of his mind. He hates the 90's, but he loved by say no more	Mar 4th, 2000 10:09:58 AM

BILL GOLDMAN'S OPIONION by CYBERSTAIN	Mar 4th, 2000 05:16:56 PM
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Bill was wrong about the end of American Beauty.But it's okay, he SEEMS to be right about screenplays more often than not. I thought the bondage and rape scene's in HIS "General's Daughter" screenplay were Hollywood gratuitous, but I don't know if the studio forced him to write them in, just as he doesn't know the situation of the screenplays he criticized. It is okay to admit that you're an old, horny bastard, and it's also okay to not screw young girls ( Unless you get your priorities from high school peer pressure... or aging screenwriters ).Girls lie about their sexuality just like boys do, even more so nowadays, and maybe someone as old as Bill can't imagine that.But as far as A.B.'s screenplay is concerned, I though it was consistant. It showed "the so called" American dream, then the escapist fantasy and then the reality.
BILL GOLDMAN'S OPIONION by CYBERSTAIN	Mar 4th, 2000 05:18:28 PM
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks Bill was wrong about the end of American Beauty.But it's okay, he SEEMS to be right about screenplays more often than not. I thought the bondage and rape scene's in HIS "General's Daughter" screenplay were Hollywood gratuitous, but I don't know if the studio forced him to write them in, just as he doesn't know the situation of the screenplays he criticized. It is okay to admit that you're an old, horny bastard, and it's also okay to not screw young girls ( Unless you get your priorities from high school peer pressure... or aging screenwriters ).Girls lie about their sexuality just like boys do, even more so nowadays, and maybe someone as old as Bill can't imagine that.But as far as A.B.'s screenplay is concerned, I though it was consistant. It showed "the so called" American dream, then the escapist fantasy and then the reality.
Billy boy by Lester Diamond	Mar 4th, 2000 09:15:59 PM
Oh yeah, THREE KINGS, AMERICAN BEAUTY, and BEING JOHN MALKOVICH fell apart in the second half, but THE GENERAL'S DAUGHTER was the best ending of the year. I knew what would happen in the first five minutes. No bullshit. SPOILER ALERT A girl is raped and dead and a certain Oscar winning, well-known actor is featured, initially, for about two scenes. But who could be the killer? I don't know. END SPOILER And Adventures in the Screen Trade has almost nothing to say. It's not a screenwriting teaching book, thank God, because according to this article, that would end up being a disaster. It's not an autobiography because he doesn't talk a lot about himself. It's just a cynical account of the projects he has worked on and the crap that happened there. I really don't think the guy is one of the best out there.
Goldman... ugh... by Zach	Mar 5th, 2000 06:16:27 PM
Slap a black mask on him and call him Vader. Man, does this guy have the biggest ego in Hollywood or what? I bet he'd be worse on a set than James Cameron and Val Kilmer combined. It is fine to tell people what you think, but I despise it when someone uses their fame to knock other people down. Not that his comments have any actual importance to the careers of people like Spielberg or Lucas, but you would think this guy would have better and more meaningful things to say. I for one have enjoyed the films based on Goldman books/ scripts. I even liked "The Ghost and the Darkness," though I do have one serious issue with that film: it certainly takes serious historical liberties, unnecessary ones in sacrifice of time-honored cliches, and Goldman is the sole credited screenwriter of it. It is also interesting that he hates Spielberg "hooker" movies but his screenplay for "Ghost and the Darkness" borrows so heavily from "Jaws," the quintessential Spielberg-popcorn flick. Goldman has talent but it would be nice if he spent more time writing good screenplays than he did trying to pick fights and issues with everyone in Hollywood. Even in his "positive reviews" he has to find a negative detail to prick upon, an example being his very-much-in-the-minority, immoral, cheap, and completely inartistic thoughts on the ending of "American Beauty." The guy is all hot air; he's like a Shakespeare who spends his whole time using his wisdom and talent to talk everyone else down, but his true hand is crippled.
Bill Goldman & Novels by BookManKev	Mar 6th, 2000 08:33:28 PM
I consider myself one of William Goldman's biggest fans (even began a web site devoted to him: goldmanfan.tripod.com), even though I don't always agree with his movie opinions. My real question is: why hasn't he written any NOVELS since 1986? Okay, "Buttercup's Baby," but that was a novella. I'd LOVE to read another novel by him - The Color of Light is one of the best books ever written. Any ideas? Kev
Goldman Interview by joe75755756	Mar 7th, 2000 02:50:46 PM
I liked Goldman's comments, but did the interviewer have to interject himself so much? I mean, come on, did we really need to know about your missing the appointment blah, blah, blah. When you have a good subject, your job should be to let him talk and keep out of the way.
William Goldman on American Beauty by Reymundo	Mar 11th, 2000 03:36:05 AM
I was actually looking all over my issue of this month's Premiere magazine to see Mr. Goldman's annual article on the Oscar picks, because I wanted to see what he had to say about American Beauty. (Incidentally, I don't know why, but there was no article. Is he not doing one this year?) Personally, I loved the movie, and think it should win the Oscar. While I also respect Mr. Goldman's opinion, I think he's taking the film way too literally. It's not about Spacey's quest to have sex with Mena Suvari. His refusing to make love to her when he finds out she's a virgin goes to the very heart of the film: he does it because he realizes that the image he had of her was just an illusion. She's not a nymphomaniacal sexual goddess, just an insecure little bitch.
Does anyone else actually read the scripts? by moovees	Mar 16th, 2000 10:32:52 PM
For those of you wondering, and basing your answers on an assumption -- in the ORIGINAL script for American Beauty he DID fuck the girl! In fact, that was in there for a long time until they decided to make the change (a change I felt was a better choice). Also, one very UN-Hollywood moment was Thora Birch removing her bra, and Mendes decision to SHOW IT was a great choice (no, not for the nudity, but the actual meaning of what she was doing).
Goldman and Am. Beauty by Bwana Dave	Apr 2nd, 2000 10:07:31 AM
I couldn't diasagree more with Bill Goldman and his take on Am. Beauty. Lester's journey of discovery takes him back to the place he was at the beginning of the movie, but different. He becomes a father to Angela in a way he couldn't to Jane. The whole, weird, long journey made him realize this. In my opinion this is the stuff of great storytelling--taking a character to a destination that is expected, but in an unexpected way. I still love Goldman's stuff, especially Butch. To this day, when face with someone overestimating a situation, I revert to "Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?"
Temple Of Gold by genemccarthy	Jun 20th, 2002 11:46:44 PM
I realise that Goldman's first novel, "The Temple of Gold", had been optioned over the years but not in the last 15 years or so. CAA wanted 7 figures for bit. Out of my league. But I feel strongly that this novelwould do extremely well on film. Any thoughts?

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Moriarty's RUMBLINGS FROM THE LAB #30, featuring a talk with William Goldman

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