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Moriarty's RUMBLINGS FROM THE LAB #18 Re: Barry Blaustein's BEYOND THE MAT, Garbage and James Bond, Gaiman Interview

Beyind the Mat by ardeth	Oct 26th, 1999 08:51:07 AM
I finally have to commend Moriarty on a review that I can agree with. Usually, I get about two paragraphs into whatever he's written, and I'm out. Beyond the Mat is a big Wrestling on-line cause right now, which should help explain the large audience for opening night, which was sold out for the evening shows. The wrestling community wants this film to go national, just so the bourgeois might gain a little respect for these people who go out and physically destroy themselves 5 days out of the week, all in the name of entertainment and adulation. This could be the film to off-set all the bullshit negative spin brought on by Owen Hart's death, Ventura's comments, and Hulk Hogan's existence.
DwD: Where's My Mononoke? by DwDunphy	Oct 26th, 1999 09:01:21 AM
Without nary a commercial, newspaper ad, or even a publicity statement bandied by the news, I can safely assume that 'Princess Mononoke' is going to be shuffled off to the arthouses of the "major markets". Here is one of a handful of movies I've been anticipating, that have had a tie-in somehow with Disney, that have somehow been meddled with or underpromoted or just plain booted to the door because of a lack of showtunes. If it's true that 'Mononoke' comes out this weekend and I can't see it solely because of the closed-mindedness of Buena Vista, I'm gonna berserka, just watch me and see if I don't.
the mind of a wrestling fan by kpoarse	Oct 26th, 1999 09:24:39 AM
'beyond the mat' looks mildly interesting if only to get a peak behind the choreography and see the actual effects on these guys. after harry's last review of the documentary, i was particularly struck by those claiming to be hardcore wrestling fans and defending it profusely against the 'redneck' label that is so often applied to the fans. i'm truly fascinated by wrestling fans and the behavior they exhibit within the arena. it's absolutely 100% macho, testosterone, and balls. calling it a soap opera is accurate only in that it's predictable and panders to the simple-minded. other than that it's simply an outlet for over-aggressive and insecure goons whose favorite activities include drooling, grabbing their crotches, and spewing brilliant catch-phrases like "suck it!" pro wrestling is perfectly tailored to those who react to basic conditioned responses associated with violence, sexism, and (more dangerously) a combination of the two. the apologists are everywhere, trying (in vain) to rationalize their macho-aggressive behavior as some form of entertainment. it's virtually impossible to be attracted to wrestling if you don't feel the need to display dominance and power over others. the simple fact is, you can deduce a hell of a lot by analyzing what kind of stimuli one reacts to. although, you really don't even need to make that effort if you simply take a look at the social and economic demographics of the audience. if fans would just admit their motives and reasons for identifying with dominating violence (aka wife beaters), at least they could be free of the hypocrite label. those trying to play in the swamp and claim to be squeaky clean are fooling no one. take a look inside and try to figure out why it is you feel the need to blindly follow a large, steroid-pumped, half-naked man when he tells 30,000 people that they should swallow his penis. i apologize to all the wrestling fans for using words outside of the wrestling vernacular, but i can't appropriately express all my ideas with "suck it."
Jake's continued downward spiral by Beedo	Oct 26th, 1999 10:09:45 AM
Unfortunately, Jake Roberts has apparently not learned anything from being in Beyond the Mat. On October 10, he took part in an "old-timer's" pay-per-view event called "Heroes of Wrestling". The man showed up completely plastered, and almost singlehandedly ruined the entire show. I guarantee you he will never work again after his lewd, embarassing performance. It's sad to see him succumb once again to his addictions, but he's got no one to blame but himself.
Harmless fun by KermitTfrog	Oct 26th, 1999 10:12:24 AM
Just to clarify something to the above poster. I live in the UK and have been watching the WWF for 2-3 months via Sky. Working in the environment that I do I have daily contact with bereavement and serioulsy ill people. I can confidently say I have a very considerate nature and to my knowledge I'm very inoffensive to all people I come into daily contact with. I'm married, come from a big family and I'm well educated. I don't find your comments offensive I just think it's sad that you feel it necessary to generalise over people you've never met. I personally laugh my ass off when watching WWF it's lots of fun. Sure some of it's could be construed as offensive but if you don't like it switch off, read a book just do something else. My advice to you is don't be bitter about things go have some fun. Hell life's too short something I can definately confirm.
Beyond the Mat by Merry Slander	Oct 26th, 1999 10:17:11 AM
Believe it or ont there is not cross-pollination between fans of Wrestling and fans of this site. The previous poster, who let loose with his epic diatribe misses the entire point of the film and Moriarty's review of it. These are real people engaging in an extreme lifestyle. They are part of a culture that is interesting, distinct, and up until recently, closed off fromthe public. They work in abusiness just as cut-throat and convolluted as anything in Hollywood. If you want to degrade wrestling for it's current adult themes, fine by me. HOWEVER, please take the rest of consumer entertainment to task as well. Otherwise you just come off as a big poopy jerk. There is much that is crude to professional wrestling. But there is also much of the sublime in these athletic "contests". Whether people watch it or not, I do wish that it could be acknowledged that profesional wrestling, just like Rock and Roll is an original American "artform". It has gained a worlwide popularity and acclaim with distinct variations having develped aound the world (primarially in Japan and Mexico. I'm not saying any one has to like it. All I am saying is if you are going to trash it, don't take the idiotic cheap shots. Witty barbs sheathed in ignorance just have no sting. If anyone is intersted in a good site that provides a regualr view into this unique world try: www.wrestleline.com or www.1wrestling.com.
please re-direct by KermitTfrog	Oct 26th, 1999 10:19:02 AM
spooky, my talkback just jumped above the person who I'm referencing. Time for the most electrifying move in sports entertainment today.
Not apologizing for being a fan by KingfisherD	Oct 26th, 1999 10:19:31 AM
It's funny how often people who do not like wrestling, love to categorize people who do. To be perfectly honest, yeah, there are those hardcore morons out there who would just as soon scream out "hell yeah" and raise their middle finger at the drop of a hat... but you know what? You find that population EVERYWHERE. I need not remind you of what happened at Fenway Park just over a week ago when you got another bunch of hardcore morons throwing crap onto the field because of a number of blown calls. Or the hardcore morons at Giant Stadium a few years ago who were throwing ice onto the field, and pasted one of the assistant coaches right in the head. Or those hardcore film idiots who laid themselves down on the yellow line in the center of the street because they saw it done in a movie, and promptly got run over. But do most people decry sports or film because of these things? No. Sure you'll get the small minority who will, but if you look at the number of people who don't like sports or film and who will go through the effort to decry the existance of them, is infintesimally small compared to the number of folks who aren't pro wrestling fans, but are certainly willing to get all up in arms about how it's "fake" and "bad for us". Pro wrestling fans are the entertainment and sports version of the smokers of this country. Everyone who's not is willing to badmouth those of us who are. Just because professional wrestling lives in that shadow region, halfway between sport and a fictional action-adventure show, it is ripe for people to rip on it. The sports goons hate it because "it's not about the glories of competition", and the entertainment gurus hate it because "it's nothing more than glorified violence passing itself off as real". And that's why most people hate it. It's not real enough for the sports goons, and it's not fake enough for the entertainment gurus. The same people who will decry the "pre-determined" nature of wrestling and call it "not a sport" and "fake", will go on and on about the intracies about running an offensive scheme in football, the pick-and-roll in basketball, and the precision of a pitcher throwing a curve ball. You know what? I hate to break it to you, but trying to perform some of these stuntman-like moves that these guys pull off on a nightly basis, require a hell of a lot more conditioning than most of your so-called athletes require. Getting dropped flat on your back from heights of over eight feet, getting cracked over the head with a steel chair... these are the kind of moves that I challenge ANYONE who thinks that they're a "real" athlete and thus, better than any lame pro wrestler, to even attempt to do what these guys do for twenty minutes at a time, five days a week. And on the entertainment front, the same people who will decry the level of violence in pro wrestling, will go on and on about the wonderful depictions of violence in films like "Fight Club". How it "opens our eyes", and how it's "a satirical look at violence". But because "Fight Club" is obviously fake (since it is, after all, a movie), we are able to rationalize the violence away as being something for us to "think about". Pro wrestling, however, depicts the violence as if it was real, and thus, those of us who find it fun to watch are "testosterone-laden freaks who will bring down our culture." Well you know what? To all of you out there who are overly enamored with the "beauty of sport" and the "majesty of film", let me just say on behalf of the millions (AND MILLIONS) of pro wrestling's fans, to please, GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES!!! Your little obsessions are just as ridiculous and as hurtful to our culture as pro wrestling is, and to think otherwise is a ego-stroke of epic proportions. It's ALL ENTERTAINMENT! ALL OF IT! AND TO INSULT THOSE OF US WHO HAVE CHOSEN THIS ONE LITTLE NICHE OF THE ENTERTAINMENT WORLD TO FOLLOW ALONG, JUST SHOWS HOW FAR UP YOUR SPHINCTER YOUR HEADS HAVE GONE, FROM TRYING TO KISS YOUR OWN ASSES.
BEYOND THE MAT by DeathStalker	Oct 26th, 1999 10:22:15 AM
I'm glad to see a positive review of this film from the viewpoint of a non-fan. Having known many wrestlers personally over the years (Mick Foley included - they guy is just genuinely great!) I was happy to see that someone has finally managed to give viewers a glimpse into the truly hard, often brutal life that the athletes (and yes, they ARE athletes) endure. So many people pass off wrestling as "FAKE" - it may be pre-determined, but is is DEFINITELY NOT FAKE! Professional wrestling is no more "fake" than a great film -- do you go to see a film and shout that the actor isn't who he's playing? That the fight he's in is fake? Keep in mind that the blood in movies IS fake - in wrestling the blood is REAL. These guys REALLY bleed - take a look at their foreheads sometime - most of them look like someone took a meat tenderizer to it! Terry Funk is a prime example - this is a guy who had literally don it all in the world of pro-wrestling - a legend in his own time. The scars on his body are REAL. No other athletes or performers put themselves through what wrestlers do for their audience - their fans. And more to the point, no other athletes or performers are looked upon with more disdain for their extreme efforts. Hopefully this film will gain wide release and help set the record straight. Most people don't think that wrestlers can act/perform - but it's what they do 300+ days of the year! What other "actor" can claim that type of schedule? There are very few wrestlers who, having crossed over into "legitimate" acting have not succeeded [Terry "Hulk" Hogan not withstanding] - (Terry Funk has made many cameo appearances). Let's hope these guys finally get their due.
Defending the fans and then there are some... by All Thumbs	Oct 26th, 1999 10:26:42 AM
I'm not a wrestling fan, but I have a lot of people close to me who are and the majority of them do not fit into the stereotype of someone who oozes sexism and violence. I've actually sat down and watched wrestling with my boyfriend and we've gotten into arguements over the elements of wrestling and why he likes it and I can't stand it. He's a business college graduate, one of the most gentle people in the world, very intelligent and only brings on the sexist comments to get a good retort of frustration and indignation from me - as many of you know how I get. Anyways, for him, it's all in good fun and I won't deny him or any of my friends who enjoy wrestling that. BUT...for those who see wrestling as almost a this-should-be-taken-as-gospel life model, THAT is dangerous and stupid. I hate seeing those kids on shows like 2020 where they're copying what goes on in wrestling and spouting real sexist and violent attitude. It just makes me sick and somebody needs to set them down in front of this documentary so they can see what pro wrestling really is and means.
The mind, blah, blah blah by gunny	Oct 26th, 1999 10:26:54 AM
It is interesting to me that there exists so many (especially on AICN talkback) elitist types whose goal in public forums seem to be to prove that they are so much smarter/wittier/sophisticated than everybody else. Wrestling would seem to be the best topic for this sort of thing, especially for those who believe wrestling fans are a bunch a drooling double-x chromosome rednecks who can't put together a coherent sentence. Nevermind that a large portion (including myself) are perfectly normal,even intelligent. Some of us were even able to graduate college or even get multiple degrees. Imagine that. Also never mind that a wide cross-section of American celebrity, especially comedians (Should tell you wrestling-fan detractors something.Grow a sense of humor for gods sake), loves wrestling, including Ben Stiller, Dennis Miller, and Jay Leno. So you see, there are two sorts of nonfans. Primus, the kind who genuinely dislikes the scripted violence and soapish story lines. Secundus, the kind who say they dislike the scripted violence, the soapish stories, and viciously put down wrestling fans at any opportunity in vain attempt to make their pathetic, friendless lives seem worth not shoving that .45 in their mouths and pulling the trigger. A good giveaway for this second type is the use of a large number of multisyllabic words. They think it makes 'em sound smart. That's all. Gunny
Don't Forget..... by mrbeaks	Oct 26th, 1999 10:48:28 AM
.....the WWF, and, as of a few weeks ago, the WCW, employ Harvard educated writers to script these canvas operas.
An Open Letter to Moriarty by SithPenguin	Oct 26th, 1999 10:54:35 AM
I hate you! Now, don't take that as "I hate you and I'll run over you first chance I get" take it as "I hate you because you're doing things I only dreamed of". Interviewing Neil Gaiman is something I have long dreamed (sorry) of since I first picked up the Midsummer Night's Dream issue of Sandman many years ago. Between Sandman, Stardust and his brilliant novel with Terry Pratchett "Good Omens" he has been a favourite of mine. His integrity is beyond belief, his writing style deserves to be in a Hall of Fame somewhere, and he seems like a generally cool guy. Besides anyone who makes me itch to die so I can meet Death, has to be doing something right! So, in conclusion, there is a tribe in Africa that if you murder someone you have to give up your in order to live their life, all I'm saying is watch your back, Moriarty! :-)
Wrestling? What wrestling? by Powerslave	Oct 26th, 1999 11:01:42 AM
Nowadays, wrestling is just a bunch of testosterone-overloaded stud-muffins berating their opponents in the ring, doing interviews, taking part in skits, skirmishing briefly, and leaving the wrestling for the pay-per-views. There's what, about 6 of them a month now? Toss in large amounts of T&A, sleaze, and lowest-common denominator schtick, and is it any wonder wrestling is huge? And don't think I'm some intellectual looking down from my lofty pedestal. No, I used to love wrestling. My friends loved wrestling. We all knew it was as fake as hell, but that was part of the fun. It was like watching a soap opera, with the various twisting subplots, back-stabbing, double-crosses, and treachery, all culminating in the squared circle. Corny allegory perhaps, but that's how I always viewed it. It was fun. I'm not ashamed to admit that. Now, it's less about the wrestling and more about the ratings: WWF was going in the tank, ratings-wise, and they had to do something to get out. So now we have the new WWF, where lowest-common-denominator stunts rule the day. These guys are great atheletes and actors, they're good at what they do, but it's not really wrestling anymore. Enjoy it now, because soon people are going to get tired of Stone Cold, the Rock, the "divas," and everything else.
Kpoarse by Stone Cold	Oct 26th, 1999 11:41:40 AM
You just prove your ignorance by making such stereotypical comments. In your blinded logic, people only watch ER because they have a secret passion to cut people up and see lots of blood. Or fans of NYPD Blue really just want to shoot and beat up inner-city kids. Get a life you loser. It is entertainment, and those guys work their asses off every week to entertain the fans. They take huge bumps, and they do it for the fans. Wrestling fans watch sports entertainment for the thrill and excitement the same way someone might get thrilled and excited watching performers at the circus. The only difference is that wrestling also offers compelling storylines of deceit and confrontation, same as you may see in any T.V. show or film that is telling a story in order to please the audience. That is all wrestling is, an entertaining show, whether live or T.V., that brings interesting stories combined with conflict. All films and T.V. shows do the same, they just do it a different way. So, if you want to stereotype wrestling fans as just wife-beating brutes (that statement alone prove you are a close-minded idiot), then you better be ready to stereotype film fans, Kubrick fans, NYPD Blue Fans, ER Fans, Spielberg Fans, Fight Club Fans, etc. etc. Next time, think before you comment on a subject you obviously know nothing about, because you insert your foot in your candyass. And that's the bottom line, cuz Stone Cold said so! Jack Ass.
Hey this is cool by Angry Catholic	Oct 26th, 1999 11:48:52 AM
A serious film about wrestling...cool
Wrestling Movies by DeathStalker	Oct 26th, 1999 12:03:52 PM
I saw it mentioned earlier that the WWF was considering an action/adventure film - does anyone know anything more about this? A producer friend of mine was in touch with them a while back regarding a screenplay I have that MANY wrestlers are interested in being involved in, but we received a better response from WCW than WWF, so things got stalled for a while. With this new popularity increase, we're hoping the chances of getting this film (TimeQuest) made increase as well. Problem is - as BTM shows - Hollywood still has no respect for wrestlers as film stars. Oh, if anyone's interested, SCSA ("Stone Cold" Steve Austin) is making 5 appearances this season on NBC's NASH BRIDGES - the first one was last week.
Message Ordering by DeathStalker	Oct 26th, 1999 12:06:10 PM
Does anyone know why the order of these posts keeps changing? Up, then down, now mixed up? What next?
Powerslave by Stone Cold	Oct 26th, 1999 12:18:55 PM
If you want 1980's rasslin', go watch dubba-ya see dubba-ya, also known as Wheel Chair Wrestling. Oh but wait, Vince Russo and Ed Ferrera (Former WWF employees) are now running the show down in Turner land. I guess you are SOL, if all you want to see is old fasioned 30-40 minute technical matches. Those days are gone. Wrestling is more interesting now with more compelling storylines. It is centered more on the adventure than the action. That is what the fans have demanded, and that is what McMahon gave them, and it is great. The ratings clearly show that most people agree.
Such hostilities... by Devils Halo	Oct 26th, 1999 12:40:46 PM
PowerSlave.. as for the lack of 'technical wrestling', I take it you missed the match a couple Nitros ago between Brett Hart and Chris Benoit in tribute to Owen? That was the best technical match I've seen all year between two of the best skilled wrestlers in today's flash and glitz. Unfortunately, it seemed that the audience there didn't care much for such a technical match and it's because of audience reaction like that, we don't see enough of it. It was 20 mintues of pure wrestling, though the scripted outcome (which differed from Hart's original ending) was a disappointment. And as for kpoarse (or however you spell your name), I have been a fan for over 20 years. I've seen wrestling grow and change. When Vince McMahon coined the phrase 'sports entertainment' that pretty muched summed it up for me. I don't go out slamming people, mistreat women, or dress up as a pimp. It's entertainment, it's escapism, just as movies are. Granted some of the storylines are in bad taste, (Jeff Jarrett's women bashing and Macho Man's 'attack' on his valet) but tell me you don't see that on some other TV show where in both cases the outcome is justice served because the action is bad, whether it be going to jail on a cop show or getting a Stone Cold Stunner. So fans get rowdy and cheer for their favorite wrestlers, so what? Those same people go to a Laker game, or a Yankees game, or to a Redwings game act, cheer, yell the same way. Is there a difference?
In the company of wolves by Powerslave	Oct 26th, 1999 01:49:23 PM
Gee, it's a good thing I didn't say I hated wrestling. Then some of you would be all over me even worse. Some of you accuse people who criticize wrestling and wrestling fans as being narrow-minded by being narrow-minded yourself. Why can't you respect other people's opinions? If they want to say they don't like wrestling, isn't that their right, just like it's your right to say you're a fan? The Internet attitude is well in effect here: "I'm right, and if you don't agree with me, you're an idiot." Next, you're going to say the non-fans just don't 'get' wrestling. What do you want? I said I was once a wrestling fan. I said I admired what these guys do, not just here, but on the talkback for Harry's review of 'Beyond the mat.' I said they were great athletes. And I still get slammed for being 'negative.' Go figure. If you don't like my posts SSZero, just skip over them. Nobody's forcing you to read them.
Some thoughts about wrestling... by Debaser	Oct 26th, 1999 02:17:44 PM
Let me start by saying that I am a wrestling fan. I think its accurate to say I have been one all my life. I do realize that a LOT of people don't like it. In fact, I think a lot of people just plain HATE it, as if a wrestler had killed their parents right in front of them, which I really don't get. I mean, I dont like golf, but I dont bash golf fans. Just the other night, I was in a wrestling chat, and two morons came in and just started ripping on everybody. Here's a bit of news...most fans know its "fake" (its not fake, its fixed, you know what i mean). By the way, if you ever meet a pro wrestler, go ahead and tell him that the job he breaks his ass almost every night of the year doing is "fake". Also, as far as my personal tastes go, I like Japanese pro wrestling or "puroresu" much better. Not as many gimmicks and more of a concentration on skills and overall good matches. Besides, Mitsuhara Misawa could destroy almost any American wrestler.
Kpoarse by Deno	Oct 26th, 1999 02:52:49 PM
The demographic generalizations you make have no statistical support. You are obviously predisposed to not like wrestling and thus must denigrate the audience to advance your point because there is no actual support for your position. Wrestling has a complex cluster of appeals and that is what cofuses most critics. They don't understand the variety of reasons people across all demographic groups are attracted to wrestling. Learning about the wrestling fan base and why wrestling is popular across so many demographics actually requires research and time. It's much easier to try an elevate yourself by attacking others. I work in the television industry so I see the audience numbers every week and let me assure you, wrestling fans come in all ages and income levels. And to PowerSlave, personally I have no problem with anyone not liking wrestling. Just don't denegrate the audience because you feel they are the ignorant masses and are beneath you.
I have a question for wrestling fans. by Loki Trickster	Oct 26th, 1999 03:06:37 PM
I know everyone knows that it's fake. My question is, how much of it is fake? How much is scripted and how much is improvised? Do the wrestlers go in there knowing that in the "fourth act" they'll be pile drived (pile driven?) 2 minutes and 34 seconds in, or are they just told that they'll fight for awhile and the Macho Rock Hulkberg will finally win in the end? With that question out of the way, I'll just chime in: I'm in the middle of the road between the camps here. I don't watch wrestling because I don't enjoy it. It's simple as that. It's there on my list of things that I don't enjoy, more respectable than Julia Roberts movies, and less respectable than porn (I have watched both porn and wrestling after drinking heavily, and only felt slightly guilty about it afterwards, but you'd need some suped up Ludovico technique to get me to watch a Julia Roberts movie without swallowing cyanide). But really, is it all that bad if the guys who live next to you watch wrestling? Is it any worse than listening to rock and roll? They both tap into some primal feelings in a relatively safe and socially acceptable manner. Without wrestling, maybe more people would get involved in fight clubs or less social acceptable ways of expressing discontent and our bottled up desire for violence. I don't worry about my wrestling fan 4.00 GPA roommate hitting me with a folding chair. -Loki
Buffy/Angel by Renly	Oct 26th, 1999 03:10:23 PM
Moriarty, Whenever I think that something you are obsessed with is kind of strange, or maybe you've gone off the deep end with some movie (or song, hehe), I quickly remind myself of your continued and fervorous support for the best (unwatched) show on television. I mean, I know people watch it, but I'm constantly having to justify myself to my "mature" friends that have only seen the lame movie and do not have a clue how hilarious, biting, and true this show can be. So, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!! I love having an "official" person, especially one so zealously eloquent in his arguments, put up almost weekly fuel for my rants against the unbelievers. Anyway, I was curious what you thought of the crossover ep. I thought it was good, and of course I was stoked to see Spike return, but it really showed what could potentially happen in future eps, if they took the idea of Crossover a little further than one character. That exchange between Oz and Angel had me chuckling the whole week. "Good to see you" "Likewise" "Are they always like this?" "No, usually we're laconic." On another note, that scene setting from the Neil Gaiman Radio show was intense. Just the idea of something being set in Heaven, before the fall, is so intriguing to me. And not as a "setup to the real story" with humans. You know, like the first 2 min. of an X-files ep. The WHOLE STORY. And having the hook be the first Murder? That's great. Speaking of X-files, just an FYI: Fox is re-running the much-maligned episode "HOME" this Sunday (oct.31) for the first and probably only time on network TV. ( I don't qualify F/X) So don't miss your chance to see it for free!! -Renly
er...something other than wrestling by Eppy	Oct 26th, 1999 04:28:56 PM
i was ridiculously excited to hear about the conversation with neil. Mononoke aside (and yeah, it will probably end up in art houses and nowhere fucking near where any of us actually live...sigh. such a good piece, too), has anyone heard much about the new novel? mebbe there'll be more info in the thursday segment, but i'm going NUTS for info. has anyone heard ANYTHING? the title itself, american gods, is just so goddamn intriguing. argh! neil info is so hard to find on the web, for some reason. perhaps i've been spoiled by tori sites. but really, what's up with that? and can anyone give me a ride to a bookstore to get the new sandman book tomorrow?
How "Fake" is "Fake"? by DeathStalker	Oct 26th, 1999 06:16:35 PM
This is an issue I can speak to first-hand -- I have been in the ring myself and I know many of the wrestlers personally. To be honest, it depends on the skill and experience of each participant. The more experienced the wrestlers, the more of a catch-as-catch-can the match gets. It is not "choreographed" in the manner that a movie fight or dance scene is, where everyone know EXACTLY what the next move will be - the wrestlers take their cues from each other - body language plays a large part in it all. The most important thing to remember, is that not everything goes as planned - evidenced most recently by the severe accident suffered by former pro football player Darren Drozdale (also featured in the film!) He was the recipient of a fairly basic move, when they two men apparently stumbled and "Droz" was slammed down directly on his neck, fracturing his spine. It is unknown at this time whether he will actually regain the use of his legs. Check out www.1wrestling.com or www.wwf.com for continuing updates on his progress.
The case for Pro Wrestling, and Gumpas Banned, kpoars, and All T by cinematt	Oct 26th, 1999 09:17:32 PM
Okay, Cinematt is back on the mat to enlighten all my fellow followers of our beloved sports entertainment, as well as take the non-believers to the learning tree. That means people like you, gumpas banned...(i wrote a song? okay, woody guthrie, now shut up!) and you, kpoars (what is that, some sort of medicted cream???) and you, All Thumbs (it seems to me, dear lady, you and I tangled on this subject earlier, apparently you came away from our encounter none the wiser for the wear, oh well, here comes a second helping for you...) Now then: There has been a lot of back and forth amongst the WWF fans and the wrestling haters in this particular talkback go around, much of it having to do with A) the "sterotype" of a wrestling fan, B) the merits or lack thereof of wrestling and C) a lot of namecalling on both sides. So, I'll be Henry Kissinger for all intents and purposes here. People, let's ALL loosen up our sphincters a notch or two already, okay? Sure, it burns me when I hear the uninformed babble incoherently about the pastime I and the millions (AND MILLIONS) of other fans enjoy. Yes, I feel an urge to leap to the defense of that which I care about, as I'm doing here. And it makes me happy to see all my WWF bretheren do the same on this talkback. Good posts, one and all of you, let's stay united! HOWEVER: this is still just "entertainment". I do not intend to get into perpetual flame-a-thons on this or any other website with those who dislike the WWF. Life is too short and I have too much to do to get pulled down into such muck. That is why I will never resort to making personal attacks on people, nor will I use out and out profanity beyond an occasional "damn" or "hell" (or the random "aw, shit" works nice too...). I'm a staunch backer of the WWF and always will be. Nothing anyone says will ever change that. I openly encourage all my WWF loving brothers and sisters to follow my lead and take it to a higher ground. Are ya with me, Gibronis??? NOW THEN.... ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS DEBATE: I appreciate anyone's right to not enjoy or like or partake of something, even wrestling. Those of you who frown on it simply because it's not right for you... that is your God given right, and I would take up arms to defend it on your behalf if it were threatened. HOWEVER....when you sling mud, either with your stereotypical psychoanalysis of we fans, or you spout propaganda such as "it's bad for kids, blah, blah blah" you are slandering and doing a disservice to the hardworking men and women of the WWF, and it's clientele, US, who happily patronize that great company and find some enjoyment in our lives. To those of you, and you know who you are, I ask very politely, very civilly here and now, PLEASE BACK OFF ON THAT! All you do with your venom is serve to incite and annoy. Your opinions are sacred, but not to the point where you cause emotional distress, however superficial it may seem. When I say emotional distress, I don't mean all us fans will go crying to our psychiatrists. But you create a cause for which the effect unfortunately is retaliation. Why? We're not bothering you, please don't attack us. You can have your forms of entertainment, we'll steer clear, hell, some of us might even like the same things you do! All we ask in return is the same consideration and the same respect. Fair enough? Well, that's my rant. Sorry if it was a bit lengthy, but it needed to be said. And that's the way it is....IF YOU SMELLLLLLL-LA-LA-LA...WHAT THE ROCK...IS COOKIN!
Ahem, double X chromosome? by Monkeyfish	Oct 26th, 1999 09:18:26 PM
Someone with double X chromosomes would be a woman. I think you were referring to the XYY type, who have been occasionally shown to be more agressive than the normal XY. But I digress... I gotta go with Moriarty here, I'd rather entertain myself in some way that doesn't involve spandex-ed packages. Got nothing against rasslin' fans, tho.
I refuse to watch Buffy because my ex is a Buffy addict by Tall_Boy	Oct 26th, 1999 10:07:39 PM
and therefore I hate it and everything about it. End of discussion.
What? There have been LOTS of ads for "Mononoke"! by 433	Oct 26th, 1999 10:17:08 PM
DwDunphy, what are you talking about?!? There was major national advertising on the Saturday morning WB cartoons (twice during "Pokemon" alone!), and on "The X-Files" on Sunday! I get to see an advance creening next Wednesday with a special Q&A session with Gaiman afterwards. He's also the Guest of Honor at CONvergence (the same con Harry & Father Geek were GoH's at this year) in July! If you're interested in copies of "Sandman: The Dream Hunters", check out www.dreamhavenbooks.com!
What? There have been LOTS of ads for "Mononoke"! by 433	Oct 26th, 1999 10:17:08 PM
DwDunphy, what are you talking about?!? There was major national advertising on the Saturday morning WB cartoons (twice during "Pokemon" alone!), and on "The X-Files" on Sunday! I get to see an advance creening next Wednesday with a special Q&A session with Gaiman afterwards. He's also the Guest of Honor at CONvergence (the same con Harry & Father Geek were GoH's at this year) in July! If you're interested in copies of "Sandman: The Dream Hunters", check out www.dreamhavenbooks.com!
Hulk Hogan made a Wrestling movie by Tall_Boy	Oct 26th, 1999 10:24:03 PM
I remember this when I was a kid. I don't remember the name of the movie for the life of me, but I remember the villian, a big black guy named ZEUS and he had a Z shaved into the side of his head. HE actually wrestled on the WWF to promote the movie and the Million Dollar Man, Ted Dibiasse was his manager. It was cool (when I was, like 7). The movie, I don't remember much but I do remmeber Hulk tearing his way out of a sealed limo with his BARE HANDS!!! How fucking cool is that?! Oh yeah, and for the record, modern wrestling rocks.
AHEM, someone didn't listen to me carefully, now did they, CINEM by All Thumbs	Oct 27th, 1999 01:29:51 AM
What the....cinematt, what response were YOU reading?! I didn't say anything bad about wrestling or the fans, except for those guys they've shown on the news shows that bash themselves over the head with chairs (not the kind the pros use, either) and jump off the roofs of their homes, bloodied and possibly brain or other body damaged in front of a crowd of awed and, in some cases, disgusted fans. I was DEFENDING the rest of the fans, the vast majority, who realize it is just an entertainment sport, watch it for enjoyment and just like it because they do. I NEVER said it was bad for children in my post here. I think there ARE some good lessons about right and wrong kids can learn from some of the wrestlers if they know have the understanding that it is not real. I think a lot of people need to see this movie to see what goes on "beyond the mat"...some to learn respect for the performers and some to learn this is more than a game they're doing there. And you have to admit that some of the material is just not suitable for younger children. I'm talking under the age of 10. I never dissed wrestling or generalized the fans. The above example is the extremist of what could go wrong if you take this entertainment as reality and try to copy it without proper training and safety. YOU did not read my post or did not in any way understand it. And I don't remember arguing with you about it, either. BTW, I don't like it because it does nothing for me and I don't agree with all of the messages, ok? Now...instead of generalizing me, you should be apologizing, thank you. Sorry this is so long, everybody, but I'm tired of getting my name posted on the Talk Backs by people who misunderstand what I'm saying, especially when I have sided with those who aren't trying to be stereotypical of the fans and nonfans.
I'm calm now... by All Thumbs	Oct 27th, 1999 01:36:34 AM
Sorry, I reread my above post to cinematt and realize I was pretty pissed off when I wrote it, so it might not be entirely coherent at some points. BUT I'm feeling much better now and apologize again for any negative karma that might have brushed off onto y'all in my response, but I had to clear my name of cinematt's accusations.***To be positive, I now more than ever want to see this movie! : ) And...I think the Garbage song is just plain cool and will buy the CD as soon as I have any money.
A homoneurotic observation of sorts... by Fred4sure	Oct 27th, 1999 02:28:04 AM
Has anyone ever noticed that wrestlers and comic book characters rarely have visible genitalia? You never see much of a package in the tights, which leads me to think that most of them are lightweights below the belt. Perhaps that

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Moriarty's RUMBLINGS FROM THE LAB #18 Re: Barry Blaustein's BEYOND THE MAT, Garbage and James Bond, Gaiman Interview

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