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Why Moriarty Sucks... or Moriarty's Powerfully Compelling Review of THE MESSENGER: THE JOAN OF ARC STORY

Sounds Beautiful by Kiwi-1	Sep 28th, 1999 05:14:50 AM
I am honestly almost on the point of tears just reading this review. I can feel the intensity that Moriarty feels towards this movie, and I know that the film will touch me. This is the type of film we don't get to see any more - movies that are intelligent, make you think, and affect you without going for the easy sentimental route. I can't wait. ***** www.homestead.com/vertigofilms /
Harry, I'm disappointed in you... by Kiwi-1	Sep 28th, 1999 05:27:52 AM
Okay, I can understand other people being so childish as to leap on a new article and declare to the world "I'm first", but I never thought you were that type of person. First that whole cannibalism stuff, now this childish behaviour. You're really going down in my esteem. Oh, and you should be glad for Moriarty that he got to see the film. But personally, I think we've got it better. Why? Don't forget, now that he's seen the film, there's no build-up. No anitcipation. Whereas we have something to look forward to. I mean, wasn't the best part of Star Wars the wait for it to come? Just a thought. ***** www.homestead.com/vertigofilms /
Kiwi-1.... say what? by Harry Knowles	Sep 28th, 1999 05:36:18 AM
What are you talking about? You posted first. Not me. I haven't posted at all till this very moment. Hmmmm.... Childish about Cannibalism? I take Cannibalism very seriously. As for my 'Moriarty Sucks' bit. That is a special spy code that Moriarty and I have worked out that when put through a special translator lays out specific mission coordinates whereby he can pick up his next packet of spy missions and access passes. While... to the rest of the world it looks as if we are squabbling.... But noone will ever break our code. HARRY OUT.
Awesome by Uagain	Sep 28th, 1999 05:57:57 AM
Great review, I just can't wait to see this movie. Who's the actress again? In what movie did she play again?
huh. . . by MadBoy	Sep 28th, 1999 06:49:10 AM
bitch, bitch, bitch, whine whine whine. Well, I for one am excited about this review, and I thought it was a superbly written review. Of course, I didn't read the whole thing for fear of spoilers, but I read enough to move this up on my anticipation list. I'm glad to hear that Milla is flexing her acting muscles better than in the past, and despite Sarin Rufus' critcisms, I like Besson. I do hope this is more intense and has more plot than the 5th Element, wihch, though I enjoyed it, was not particularly stirring. We shall see, yes?
Besson by sjmaatta	Sep 28th, 1999 07:13:11 AM
I, for one, thought that 5th element was one of the best films of the decade. It was not meant to be taken too seriously. It had something that most movies of that kind of budget and/or theme lack: original style. One of the very few movies I'd like to see again (others incl. Godfathers, Jackie Brown, Big Lebowski for example). No plot, my ass: sometimes it is not about the quantity, but the quality. Many Hollywood and indipendent movies have lots of story, the problem is that it is so damned cliched at every "surprising turn" that it makes me vomit (anybody remember the Bruce Willis thriller "Color of Night", for exapmle?). The fact that 5th element still evokes such a response is a testament to its longevity. And it was very well acted, esp. Milla, who I thought would suck. And I hope that The Messenger is even better!!
Fight Scenes "Unexpired?" by mrbeaks	Sep 28th, 1999 07:23:19 AM
BRAVEHEART wasn't a perfect film (when you get right down to it, the script was pretty pedestrian,) but it did benefit from John Toll's expert cinematography, which is what made those battle scenes so phenomenal. The arrows whistling across the gray sky, the slow, ominous gathering of the troops..... the comparisons to RAN, among others, weren't that far off. Of all the Oscars BRAVEHEART won that year, Toll's was the most well-deserved.
Braveheart by SithPenguin	Sep 28th, 1999 08:09:20 AM
Yeah, so it had problems, so did 5th Element but both were visually stunning and sometimes I appreciate that more than a deep convuluted plot. Here come the criticisms of that idea Godzilla, JP2 etc. whatever, I'm just saying sometimes a movie like the Bride with White Hair is far more interesting than Happiness!
Braveheart and Besson... by Prankster	Sep 28th, 1999 08:22:51 AM
I have to agree with cuthbert, I'm afraid...Braveheart is a monumentally overrated movie. It's sort of the modern "Ben Hur"...a movie with one great action scene, and the rest is just silly. Maybe I could have stomached Braveheart better if it hadn't pretended to be historically accurate, and then turned its subjects into saints and demons. I HATE it when a historical film does that. Moral ambiguity is what makes biographical films great, and Braveheart left no room for it whatsoever. Now, I have no doubt The Messenger will be brilliant. Luc Besson is one of the few directors who never disappoints me (well, the 5th Element was a bit of fluff, but still enjoyable). His films are immensely satisfying...you don't feel like he missed any narrative opportunities or failed to find a story that resonated. I saw "La Femme Nikita" after the American remake and TV show had been around for a while, and I was afraid the movie would seem like it wasn't worth all the attention...but it did, because of interesting characters and a wealth of detail (rather than wall-to-wall action). And his visuals...holy crap. Again, he has the ability to invest a great-looking shot or sequence with actual relevance to the plot, so you don't feel like you've been staring at empty images for two hours. And any movie that make Dustin Hoffman look creepy must be pretty effectively made.
Sarin Rufus, you make me sleepy by MadBoy	Sep 28th, 1999 08:38:46 AM
You know what I love about Sarin Rufus? It's funny that by just reading the heading, I could tell who wrote it. Talk about predictable. What else I love? He spends half his time vomiting up criticism against people for liking movies that haven't even come out yet, and the other half his time criticising movies that haven't even come out. Interesting dichotomy, isn't it? I will admit, the movies you listed are all excellent/ classics. But I think this one will be great as well. It has the potential,certainly. I also think people need to stop looking at this in terms of the 5th Element - it's a completely different style that will be employed - no slapstick, no effects-heavy sets. It's a more serious, more weighty film, and I think Besson will shine with it. Of course, if you hate it already, then chances are you'll hate it when you see it. But please, let the rest of us get some joy out of anticipation. And Rufus, by the way. . . you're not always right, genius. People are welcome to think what they want, withoutt having to be browbeaten by a petty, sub-literate entertainment dictator such as yourself.
Thanks for the spoiler warning: ) by All Thumbs	Sep 28th, 1999 09:12:11 AM
I can't wait to see this movie and compare it to Moriarty's review. I want to see if I feel as passionate about the film as most people are seeming to be or if I'll feel like I did when I watched Braveheart; disappointed. I, too, am one of those people who didn't think Braveheart was worth all the hype, but then, that might have been because of the hype. One of my friends at the time proclaimed it to be the best movie and I'll admit it was good but had its moments of boredom and uninspired acting. The only scene that got to me was when the wife had her throat slit. Another movie I was told was one of the greatest masterpieces of all time is The English Patient and the friggin' movie bored me to death! Yeah, it had beautiful scenery and I like the chemistry between the nurse and the Sihk soldier, but that was about it. I still can't believe it won Best Picture. Ok, enough of my rants, I'm outta here.
Sarin Rufus by MadBoy	Sep 28th, 1999 09:45:42 AM
Well, I don't even know if your first line was sarcasm or not. . . seriously though, don't you feel that by intensely criticising a movie you have yet to see, you accomplish a similar thing? What I mean is, you're saying that there is a danger in overhyping a movie, and I agree with you. It's a constant thing these days. But ripping on an unreleased movie is the same thing - it's an extreme opinion that prejudges the film based on too little actual knowledge. I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the Messenger, I don'y know if it will be great or not, but it looks like it might be. I realize you think this decade has been disappointing, and I'm with you there brother, but you frequently just lash out with just as much foreknowledge (or lack thereof) as those who predict the movie will "rock" or "kick ass", and it's kinda like the pot and the kettle, ya know?
Forever young! by DrippyBits	Sep 28th, 1999 09:56:21 AM
I just think it's neat that Milla can play a twelve year old girl.
ETERNAL by MadBoy	Sep 28th, 1999 10:46:45 AM
ok, I'll admit, that was pretty funny.
Harry, I think Kiwi-1 meant... by Paco J	Sep 28th, 1999 10:54:51 AM
"I'm first", not in the sense of posting, but in the sense of getting to see things first, before others, get it?
Sarin Rufus, I accept the challenge! by MadBoy	Sep 28th, 1999 11:32:20 AM
1) Dudley Do Right, 2) Batman and Robin, 3) Legends of the Fall, 4) Jane Austin's Mafia!, 5) Lethal Weapon 4, 6) John Carpenter's Vampires, 7) The Mummy, 8) She's All That, 9) Wing Commander, 10) uhh. . . oh! Showgirls!!!. . . . oh, woops, you said GOOD movies. My bad, sorry. No, seriously, I agree, this hasn't been a great decade. But that doesn't mean it's incapable of great movies. I just ask that you keep an open mind to those which could supercede the crap, and I think the Messenger is a good prospect.
90s-10 Challenge by smilin'jackruby	Sep 28th, 1999 01:06:53 PM
Hmm...Masterpieces of the 90's? Isn't it too early to tell? Nevermind. There may not be 10 all told, but I'd say "Remains of the Day" would be there. The documentary "Hoop Dreams" would be there as would "The Shawshank Redemption." "Pulp Fiction" and "The Usual Suspects" would be alongside "The Sweet Hereafter," "Rushmore" and "Out of Sight." The Kieslowski Trois couleurs trilogy would definitely make their way into a masterpieces of the 90s list as would "Malcolm X" (though many would probably debate that with me) as would "Fearless." Hell, I might even put "Smoke" and "Lone Star" on the list, but I'm running long now. For those who hate me for neglecting almost all foreign material, apologies all around and I didn't have time to go crazy about foreign pics. I do agree with the "Naked" choice of earlier, however, and apologize also for the obvious pics I've forgotten. And yes, even though it's fashionable, I do say "American Beauty" is up there.
Harry, I wish to apologise... by Kiwi-1	Sep 28th, 1999 02:24:20 PM
When I came to the page last night, I thought I noticed, above my "Sounds Beautiful" posting, a post that purported to be from Harry Knowles, titled "Ha Ha First", or something of that like, and then the message said something about "He He Firsties He He He". However, it was late (almost 1am in NZ), I was tired, about to go to bed, and I may have imagined it. Please accept my apology.
TO SARIN RUFUS: by Jack La Motta	Sep 28th, 1999 02:26:48 PM
YOU HAVE NO LIFE!! You've already posted like seven times already. What the hell do you do all day. I'm thinking I dont like you very much. You love for people to respond to your Talk Backs, you want attention. Your like a 10 year old. Thats why your so negative with every meaninless fucking thing on this page. I will agree with you however on the 90's not being as good as the previous decades as far as movies go. But I'll give you some excellent movies, maybe not masterpieces in your mind) but unforgettable ones. Also, you put Blue Velvet in your top ten of the 80's, what does that say about your taste. Definilty not a "masterpiece". Anyways, here i go, Goodfellas(which you cant deny is a classic no matter what you say), JFK(if this were made ten years ago i'm sure you would love it more), Schindlers list(your response to this earlier in no way proved to us it wasnt a masterpiece), Hoop Dreams(name on imperfect thing about this gem), Leaving Las Veages(no love story like it, very powerful film), Fargo(contemporary classic already), Dark City(this is my 2001 for the 90's, there's no movie like it, look at the visuals, the story, totally original and amazing). Masterpiece is such a strong word to use for a movie. People dont often use it unless its older, unless time has brought a movie to its greatness. Thats why its hard to call any movies from the 90's a masterpiece. But, Schindlers list....MASTERPIECE....much better than movies like Days of Heaven or Blue Velvet. Raging Bull should have been at the top of your 80's list...there was nothing better that decade. The 70's is my favorite decade of movies. All the one's you mentioned were a lot of my favorites. But masterpiece to me can only be said of a movie through time. Look at 2001, it was hated by moviegoers and critics...now look at it. It's quite possibily considered one of the best ever. In my opinion, no movie can be considered a masterpiece this decade because people like you only think of oder movies that way. If Days of Heaven was just made last year, you wouldnt call it a masterpiece, you'd call it a boring piece of shit, cause the 90's sucks...right?
Finally, Sarin Rufus Backs Up His Words by mrbeaks	Sep 28th, 1999 02:30:24 PM
This is getting interesting. Ten great films of the 90's? Here goes..... 1) EXOTICA -- Elusive storytelling. Beautifully shot, doesn't spell everything out, and just when you think Egoyan's overplaying his hand, he pulls the rug out from under you. One of my favorite final shots, mostly because of its eerie ambiguity. 2) THE ENGLISH PATIENT -- Layered storytelling, perfect structure, and massively romantic (and we're talking earned romaticism here, not the bullshit, PRETTY WOMAN kind.) 3) RUSHMORE -- You call it a gem, but I'd say the same about THE CONVERSATION; however, they're both brilliant regardless of their scale. A lovely film about obsession, pining away for the past, and the confusion of adolescence. Max Fisher is a modern day Ben Braddock. 4) GOODFELLAS -- How you can prefer CASINO, with its aspirations to a Shakespeare-level tragedy and its shallow characters, over this definitive take on the mob in the 20th Century is beyond me. Some people say the film sputters out near the end. I always feel a sense of dread, knowing that this is a downward spiral that keeps reaching new depths (listen for the real Henry Hill on the Howard Stern Show, and you'll know what I mean. Pathetic.) 5) THE SWEET HEREAFTER -- Another jigsaw puzzle from Egoyan, this time he only leaves you with the second greatest final shot of the decade. Why I love his storytelling: most writers/directors would show the bus wreck that spurs the story forward at the beginning or end of the film. Egoyan plops it right in the middle. Also, Ian Holm's monologue about the prospects of performing an emergency tracheotomy on his daughter is beyond riveting. 6) RED -- The defining chapter of Kieslowski's trilogy, and the most fully realized; although, I find myself praising BLUE more than most folks. That's enough for now. I've got far too much work to do, and, even though I'm firing this right off the top of my head, I still have work to do. I could keep going, though. Maybe later.
Braveheart is the worst film of the decade by Sijmen	Sep 28th, 1999 03:33:54 PM
You can't talk about the great movies of the decade and not mention The Chunkin Express, Breaking the Waves, The Celebration, Secrets and Lies, and this year's palm d'or winner Rosetta! It's not because American movies were bad that it's a bad decade for the movies! My favorites of the decade: Exotica My favorite American movies: Reservoir Dogs and Wild at Heart!
My choices for movies of the decade by Loki Trickster	Sep 28th, 1999 04:05:58 PM
I'm not even going to list the reasons, unless the spirit moves me. "Pulp Fiction" and "Reservoir Dogs" are both masterpieces of storytelling and design, as well as very enjoyable movies. "Seven"...the end is what makes the movie so painful; the bad guy wins! How nihilistic, and wonderful. "The Usual Suspects"...do I even have to go into this one? "Naked"...the nihilism of "Seven" pumped up a couple notches; as if Dostoevsky and Nietszche collaborated on a film. "L.A. Confidential"...well, I hesitate on this one because the ending doesn't quite fit it's genre...but I can't think of more human characters in a noir... "Pi": Quit reading this and go rent that movie...how more intense and intelligent can you get? "Good Will Hunting"; an honest and original work. "Silence of the Lambs"; despite what you say, Anthony Hopkins portrays the most charming personification of Evil since Milton wrote "Paradise Lost". "The Shawshank Redemption": Incredible cinematography, incredible story, and one of the most oft stolen images in recent movie history (probably stolen from somewhere else, but still etched indelibly on our brain): the shot of Dufresne after his escape, arms outstretched in the rain. "The Truman Show": shut up, I can hear you snickering. Truman Burbank is one of the Benjamin Braddock's of our age. That's all I can come up with for now...there's more out there. "Saving Private Ryan" comes close, but has some fatal flaws, such as the opening and closing scenes, and the gung-ho propoganda cardboard characters. The battle scenes were intense, but Kubrick did the same thing back in the 50s with "Paths of Glory", and he did it with much characters much more real than any that have walked through Speilberg, ever. I guess it just seems like this decade sucks, because all the crap Martin Lawrence movies or Adam Sandler P.O.S that comes out, but remember, 95% of everything is shit, and only the "classics" from the past decades really survive. For every "Apocolypse Now", there's 10 "Howard the Duck"s. -Loki
Best Picture, 1999 AND YOU HEARD IT FROM ME FIRST!!!!! by Funmazer	Sep 28th, 1999 04:06:36 PM
Funmazer here. I didn't even read all the posts, didn't even read the review (I don't spoil movies I WANT to see) noticed a few Braveheart comments. Braveheart was good, but I'd agree, VERY overrated. Far more overrated than 10 Titanics. Go ahead, flame me, but I've heard Braveheart called 'the decade's best film' so much I wanna puke. It's good, but (to me) only worked on a few levels, whereas Titanic (also not the best movie of the decade) worked on many more. I personally think Dances with Wolves is the decade's best film, BTW. ANYWAY. Joan of Arc is going to be a butt-kicking movie done with beautiful style. I have 5th Element on tape, probably seen it 8 times, I like it, but I do admit it's not the greatest. Moreso, I think, you can see what Luc 'I love Jean Reno' Besson is capable of, given a more epic, true story. Joan of Arc is my #1 pic for FILM TO SEE this fall. And Green Mile WON'T win Best Picture. You heard it here.
Wish we could've included 1989 by smilin'jackruby	Sep 28th, 1999 04:44:14 PM
Throughout the afternoon, I keep coming up with great films from '89 like "Mystery Train" and "Jesus of Montreal" thinking they were from the 90s. As for you, Sarin Rufus, I'm from Texas so "Lone Star" is just going to stay on my list, despite its flaws. Growing up around that made me feel that it was actually a great slice of border life. For purely aesthetical reasons, I wish to include "The Full Monty" on my list as that was one of the absolute most fun, most enjoyable movies of the 90s. Whether it was a masterpiece, who knows? But shouldn't sheer enjoyment of sitting in the theater and laughing your head off count?
the 90's, my view for those that care... by Severen	Sep 28th, 1999 05:07:52 PM
Just off the top of my head here's a list of films made in the 90's that are in MY opinion fantastic films (I'm not soliciting for votes here, whether people agree of disagree is niether here nor there, these are purely my own personal opinions, and for me thats good enough). Anyways here goes: The Grifters, Reservoir Dogs, Romper Stomper (no one said they had to be american films), Trainspotting (ditto), Leon (aka The Professional), Ed Wood, A Simple Plan, 12 Monkeys, The Shawshank Redemption, The Usual Suspects, Strange Days (I still say that Kathryn Bigelow has to be the most under appreciated visualist director out there), Seven, The Crow, Braveheart, Lost Highway (I really dug it, probably my fave Lynch film) plus many others. ********On top of that there are many more recent films that I absolutely loved when I saw them but that I haven't seen enough times over a long enough period of time to really know just how well they will survive repeated viewings. Films such as Out Of Sight, Apt Pupil, The Matrix, Dark City, Suicide Kings, Eyes Wide Shut and Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas. I loved them all when I first (and in some cases second) saw them but how well they will hold up over time is anyones guess. They may become richer over time, they may still be just as enjoyable or they may lose some, or even much of their impact, only time can tell.******Fact of the matter is if you really want to you can find fault with ANY film, from Taxi Driver to RAN, from Paths Of Glory to Jaws, from John Carpenter's The Thing to Bride Of Frankenstein, from The Godfather to Citizen Kane, if you want to find fault and pick at things then it's easy to do. No film is perfect, some come damn close and are 'perfect enough' but that is pretty much as good as it gets. There's a difference between being discerning and being destructive and those that love film do so because with each film that they see there is the faintest possibility that they may be blown away by something truly great and unexpected, they don't watch films just looking for things to pick at and whine about. True not very many films are truly great, but the flipside is that many films made are entertaining, and sometimes entertaining is enough.********Well that's my rant for today, to anyone that made it this far go get a drink, you deserve it. By the way just who is it that decides if, what and when a film becomes a 'masterpiece' or a 'classic'? Is it a bunch of stuffy critics with a stick up their collective asses? Is it 'the masses'? Is it the 'film geeks'? Or is it just a popularity contest like the Oscars seem to have become? The answer doesn't really matter and personally I don't give a shit, I'll just continue to do what I've always done and watch each new movie that comes my way and then make up my own damn mind. After all isn't it our own personal classics and favourites that really matters in the long run?
First time in talk back. by JesseCuster	Sep 28th, 1999 05:11:01 PM
So forgive me if I seem a little abrasive. First off, Cinema Snobs. Yes, you know who you are, you sit in judgement of others work and think you know shit about something. Guess what! You're wrong. You constantly formulate your little "Best of" lists and toss them out as if it's evidence that you're so much more intelligent than the rest of us. While this is the cinematic version of name dropping, (Which only terribly stupid people do to make themselves seem more interesting.) it proves nothing. You read a critic's list, watched the flicks, and suddenly you know something about someone else's work. How often I've perused these talk backs, listening to you twirps argue back and forth over what will and won't be a great film, like you're speaking for someone other than yourself. You're not. You dweebs are the reason why going to the movies isn't nearly the joy it used to be. You sit and you wait to hate something. Even if you liked it, you wouldn't admit it. The only thing I have to say is, SHUT THE FUCK UP! Now, about "The Messenger". I have full faith in Moriarty's extremely entertaining assessment, spoilers and all. I'm not going to say it's going to 'rock', as I'm not a moron. I do think it's going to Besson's best film. I think that with the script and his visual style, he's finally made a masterpiece that will place his name among the great filmmakers of our time. I cannot wait to see this film. And I'm done.
Preach it Severen! by Taxman	Sep 28th, 1999 05:39:21 PM
What an awesome post.
JesseCuster by Loki Trickster	Sep 28th, 1999 05:59:58 PM
"You...watched the flicks, and suddenly you know something about someone else's work"...well, how else do you learn about someone's work? How else can we evaluate a work if we don't watch it? My list is not just name-dropping, it's advancing my opinion of what films of this past decade can truly be called works of art instead of just a flick. I'm not name-dropping...there's nothing special about my having seen these films; anyone with money can do so; what's special is these films themselves. Of course we sit in judgement of other people's work...you just did the exact same thing when you criticized our work. My formulation of the list is just my opinion...it's not put forth as divine law, and you're more than welcome to argue with them...that's why they're up there. I don't go to movies waiting to hate them...I go hoping that they'll be incredible, and I get angry when they aren't. I guess I might be a "cinema snob" because I want my movies to not be pieces of shit...sorry if you don't like that. Now I'm going to go watch "12 Monkeys", this conversation has got me wanting to see that again. -Loki
Rufus over and out... by drakelake	Sep 28th, 1999 06:31:38 PM
My first post and a long one. Noentheless....I am intrigued by Rufus
ten good movies by thinker	Sep 28th, 1999 07:56:41 PM
First off, let me say that I found Taxi Driver uninspired and more than a little boring. I also thought that A Clockwork Orange was far from a masterpiece. Just my opinion. But hey, I know some people won't like what I think were great films of the 90's. My only problem is that I can't recall right off hand if La Femme Nikita actually falls into this category. I know I didn't see it until three or four years ago, so for me it's a 90's film. The other nine, in no particular order are: The Usual Suspects (anyone who claims they figured it out is a liar) Saving Private Ryan (slow in the middle, but as a combat veretan I have to say the opening and closing combat sequences left my guts tied in knots) Casino ( I actually agree with Sarin Rufus, god help me!) The Shawshank Redemption (Hard to believe Stephen King wrote this wonderful story) Wings of Desire (What a wonderful work of art, classic in a way that the american version simply cannot match) Malcolm X (I must be one of the few white men in America who appreciated this amazing film) LA Confidential (Should have gained more Oscars, definately holds up better on a second viewing than Titanic) The Crow (A stunning set of visuals, a good story, and although not faithful to the specific content of the comic fully faithful to its feel) Sixth Sense (No one on earth can creditably tell me that they saw that ending coming. My friends and I look for endings like this, and not one of us got it. Right up there with Usual Suspects in this respect.)
Good Films of the 90's by billy*pilgrim	Sep 28th, 1999 08:04:28 PM
I'm sorry if I come of as overly optimistic here, but it's ridiculous to think that there haven't been masterpieces in the 90's. Sure, most people that watch a lot of films will agree lots of gems came out of the 70's (Deer Hunter is, incidentally, my favorite. The ending is one of the most powerful things I've ever seen. One that I don't think was listed is Annie Hall, another great.), but bear in mind they've all had 20+ years to snuggle themselves into people's hearts. Twenty years from now people will no doubt be discussing whether movies from the 90's were the best. But, for what it's worth, I'll try to list 10 films of the 90's that I feel are masterpieces, for varying reasons. 1)Eyes Wide Shut 2)The Thin Red Line 3) The Sweet Hereafter 4)The Blair Witch Project 5)Goodfellas 6)Schindler's List 7)Clerks 8)Pulp Fiction 9)Trainspotting 10)Life is Beautiful Those are just off of the top of my head, but there are more definitely. Just let some of these movies stand the 20 year test of time and we'll see how important they were.
Uh... Moriarty? by Spell Checker	Sep 28th, 1999 09:16:34 PM
Braveheart is, and always will be, what Armageddon wanted (but failed miserably) to be... An epic, rousing tale that does more to fire one's adrenaline levels than fire ones synapses. Ina nutshell, it uses simple, straight forward, politically correct themes (told on 'comic bookian' levels) to rally audiences into rooting for the men in white. To say "We've seen the moment... we've even seen it done well. It's Mel Gibson on the rack screaming, "FREEDOM!!" is putting yourself down at the bottom of the movie review barrel, along with such 'cultural film pillars' as 'Entertainment Tonight' and 'Access Hollywood'. The moment that you're speaking of does nothing more than reveal the true 'depth' of a thematically shallow (albeit involving, rousing, and most of all wonderfully shot) film. While I enjoyed Braveheart for what it was, involving fluff, it ineptly aspires to be so very much more, and for that reason, ends up falling flat and relegating itself to the lower levels of 'Oscar bait' at best. Well written article, however that one comment bugged me.
Well done! by DrippyBits	Sep 28th, 1999 09:56:46 PM
drakelake that is without question the finest piece of writing I have ever come across here, let's just hope more people than just me can appriciate it.
I'm concerned by DreamWeb	Sep 28th, 1999 10:54:43 PM
I have great confidence that Luc Besson is going to create the best retelling of the Joan of Arc story ever. However, I have to say that I'm concerned about 1 thing. John M's accent. It's completely American. Even an English accent would've been better than the American accent. The Man in the Iron Mask wasn't a good film for obviuos reasons.... but the fact that out of the three musketeers only 1 of them had a French accent didn't help the situation. At least Braveheart was fairly consisten with their accents. Anyhow... I hope it's good. I also hope that John Mal. dies. DreamAway
Not a Thesis by Chasuk	Sep 28th, 1999 11:05:49 PM
I'm not writing a thesis, I assure you. If I were, I wouldn't be submitting it for the perusal of sub-literates like Sarin Rufus. However, I do feel compelled to meet his challenge, and offer my own list of ten arguable "masterpieces." First, let me say that I watch films for entertainment only, and that the films which entertain me usually do not qualify as masterpieces. Top of my list for the '90's is "City of Lost Children," which I don't think I could ever tire of viewing. Frenchmen Marc Caro and Jean-Pierre Jeunet were responsible. The same duo also made "Delicatessen," a wickedly delightful film. "Delicatessen" is number two on my list. "Les Visiteurs" is number three. "L
Hmmm, classics... by All Thumbs	Sep 28th, 1999 11:53:11 PM
Nothing personal, but Armageddon strove to be a really long commercial, not an epic. I've seen this movie, thanks to my roommate who worships it, many, many times and each time it gets worse, although I have fun catching something new and Bruce Willis is actually pretty decent in it. I guess for me it's a throwaway movie--not something you love or even really like, but it's always on and you start to develop some bond to it like those movies shown on Comedy Central.***You know, I don't think that a movie is thought of as a masterpiece or a classic because it is perfect, but because of its representation of our culture, the way it is loved by movie lovers long after its original release, and the history behind the production. Think of how many people will one day say a movie like The Breakfast Club (while excellent, not considered a classic by many of us "cinema snobs," I suppose) is a classic and that's not just because TNT proclaims it a "new classic." Think also of how many people think of movies like The Wizard of Oz as a classic, but it was severly panned by critics. BTW, I would love to hear sarin's reasonings on why movies like Shawshank and Fargo aren't masterpieces or classics. Or maybe I don't.
drakelake... by jbreen	Sep 29th, 1999 12:25:32 AM
I agree with Drippy Bits that the drakelake post is one of the nicest bits of writing in a talkback I've seen for a while. Me, I'm usually a live and let live kinda guy, and am well aware that talkbacks, by their very nature, present an opportunity for those with ample egos or a need to prove their self-worth. Sarin Rufus is one such poster, much like Lane Myers before him - someone who inspires outrage of a magnitude large enough that others are coninuously driven to address his meanderings. Unfortunately - as if often the case with such posters - the postings themselves are pretty much of zero merit or humour. Like drakelake I am offended by his occasional homophobic outbursts and his continual need to foist his own opinions on anyone who can read, whilst simultaneously denying Harry and co similar rights. Of course Sarin will continue to post and agitate despite the fact that drakelake has succintly and comprehensively outlined the problems with his postings and why they should be ignored - albeit in a far more vicious way than I would!
re: loki, pi by 00spool	Sep 29th, 1999 01:08:50 AM
I'm not trying to stir your coffee or anything; I saw PI in the theatre twice and it was a good film, but any intelligence within seemed fake like the physics concepts were just read about and written into a treatment but not really understood. Very cool ideas, lots of silly coincidence but not really "applied" knowledge you know? Kind of built on a very weak support system. Any real mathematician would laugh this is just my opinion though. I did like the camera work that made humans seem like vibrating crude animated forms made of cells. A good illustration of bottom-up processing.
My Top 10 Of The 90's by Cyrus	Sep 29th, 1999 01:57:38 AM
I don't know if all of these qualify as masterpieces but they are my favorites of the 90's. I'm not going to rank them. Seven, Usual Suspects, L.A. Confidential, Dark City, The Big Lebowski, Contact, Heavenly Creatures, The Matrix, American Beauty and American History X. TPM almost made my list, so I love Star Wars... and I think the criticism is just due to people expecting the second coming of Christ instead of a new Episode of the Star Wars saga. Anyways maybe I'll discuss my choices later on but I'm tired now. Bye.
Damn You Moriarty!!!!!!!!!! by Buckwild_	Sep 29th, 1999 04:44:51 AM
I can't believe I read this friggin' review by Moriarty!!! I usually don't read spoilers, but I was SOOOO engrossed by Moriarty's eloquet words that i just kept reading and reading. By the time he was describing her confessions as a child, I was hooked. It wasn't until he started describing Dustinn Hoffman's character that I FORCED myself to close the damn Netscape window lest I read the entire spoiler and ruin one may be one of the best movies of the year. I have no idea how good this movie is going to be, but judging by Luc's last movie (which I love),...I'm sure this movie will rock! Ever since that one person described the trailer and finally when Harry posted a link to a sight to d/l it, suffice to say I'm there opening night. Keep up the good work Moriarty....ps: do you have an extra seat on that time machine of yours? (hey, what can i say, I'm a masochist)
We are all guilty by MadBoy	Sep 29th, 1999 07:02:26 AM
Drakelake (what does that mean?) made perhaps one of the best statements I've read here, but I must admit, we are all guilty of similar crimes, albeit to a lesser degree. While most of the rest of us don't deliberately try to goad others into being pissed off and defensive, we all easily take the bait from people like Rufus. In a previous post from a different article, I asked that we try to simply collectively ignore him, but I have found that difficult to do. And by taking the bait, we do nothing but stir up the pot further, hence our guilt as a group. But at least now we are addressing this issue, and as a result I have noticed many more positive, intelligently written talkbacks. I don't think they all need to be that way. . . the comic postings of those like narf and Pisso the Clown I appreciate. Likewise, I don't particularly care about swearing - I do it in the real world, so I see no reaosn to be bothered by it here. But the need to be obnoxious should be quelled by all, myself definitely included, and I hope we can succeed in maybe making this a intelligent yet funny forum.
Drakelake and Madboy by SithPenguin	Sep 29th, 1999 07:32:11 AM
Very well put, both of you! A collective hands-up for supporting ignoring Rufus' drivel from now on!
What all you folks are forgetting... by Myrrhibis	Sep 29th, 1999 10:03:52 AM
Is that BEST is in the eyes of the beholder. What one person thinks is the best, is not what several others will agree on. Although I truly enjoyed Braveheart (I love historical pieces, and am part of medieval re-enactments), I wouldn't put it any higher than #10 for the decade. Honestly, I don't think I'd claim more than a handful of early-90's movies as being Masterpieces...and again, it's because I like movies for different things. Some have great plots, sucky FX - and vice versa. So let's just respect other ppl's views, and not tell them what f-ing fools & morons they are...
If the shoe fits... by Duke Ray	Sep 29th, 1999 10:23:46 AM
Those who cannot create, enjoy. Those who cannot enjoy, review. Those who cannot review, critique. Those who cannot critique, criticize. Those who cannot criticize, theorize. Those who cannot theorize, boycott. Those who cannot boycott, write "letters to the Editor." Those who cannot write "letters to the Editor," vandalize. Those who cannot vandalize, kick their dog. Those who cannot kick their dog, post Talk Back rants about how everything they don't like sucks.
LaneMyers asks..... by A.K.A. LaneMyers	Sep 29th, 1999 10:56:48 AM
Did someone mention my name? It's amazing what kind of an effect I had here, absolutely amazing. Pissed everyone off and the pissed off in an amazing display that netted nearly SIX HUNDRED responses from people wanting to know what's what. There is no truth, only lies. That's what I love about film, it's all lies, pretty, flashy lies. Anyway, great review Moriarty. I really liked it, very informative and in keeping with the spirit of what I come here for anyway! SPOILERS! About lies though. When was the last time anyone told the truth about anything? Especially considering the Internet? THink about it, the ability to be able to put your immediate thougths out for public consumption at will, is a horribly frightening thing. Everyone in their own way is totally full of shit and will dazzle you with amazing displays of said shit every opportunity you give them. I'm no different than anyone else. I love shit! Shit is my stock and trade. I can dispell shit the likes of which would choke Richard Nixon I'm proud to say. Basically what it boils down to is, it's all shit and shit meaning lies. Every morsel of truth is coated in 90% shit. The shit being the crap we put on top of the truth to make it more interesting and let's face it, when was the last time the truth was interesting? No one knows the answer to that, because no one can remember the last time they got the truth without a healthy side order of shit. Basically, what I'm saying here is, I enjoy Moriarty's shit that he serves with the truth. I enjoy Harry's shit that he serves with the truth. This site serves some premium shit. Keep up the good work. The talk back however, is boring as Hell these days. I've only been reading for a few days, but man, whoa, damn. When did the obvious become the hot topic of conversation? What happened to the guys who would write some thought provoking shit? It was served with a massive amount of shit, (I should know:) but at least it was interesting to read. I've always considered the AICN talk back to be a bit more.....fun than your average message board. Long story short? Where's the cool shit? Where did it go? Is there a shit shortage or did everyone just wake up one morning and feel the need to act serious in all things they do? Thank you for your time.
hey, that was pretty good. . . by MadBoy	Sep 29th, 1999 11:01:44 AM
Now THAT was the best post I've read in a LONG time. Good show, Duke.
hey, that was pretty good. . . pt.2 by MadBoy	Sep 29th, 1999 11:05:16 AM
I was talking about Duke Ray's post, by the way. AKA's was merely amusing.
BRAVEHEART by Melody	Sep 29th, 1999 11:22:45 AM
What makes a 'good' film - the preference and prejudice of the audience, or the vision and the integrity of the filmmakers? Is not a film a 'good' film when the filmmaker achieves his own vision? I think so. Were this not the case, then BLAIR WITCH PROJECT and THERES SOMETHING ABOUT MARY would be considered 'good' film; hordes of audience response says it is so. Knowing nothing of the film, the actor, the story, the hype prior to seeing the movie, my reaction, for the first and only time in all my years of film viewing was stunned silence as the final credits rolled. I remember clearly that I turned my body slightly away from the presence of my friend; indeed, I commanded breath to cease for just a moment. Any intrusion into that moment would steal me away from that absolute magic I had just experienced. I read much later that this was exactly the response Mr. Gibson aimed for. BH is not about synapses or adrenaline; it is about passion. It was not seeing Mel Gibson on the rack that stirred the soul; it was all that led to that moment. It was the honesty of the vision brought to life; it was the passion of those noble qualities in the heart of man that we rarely experience in these cynical times, represented on the Big Screen by a common man. Wallace wasn't brave in his cell; we saw his fear. He didn't refuse to drink the poison because he was brave; he refused it because he feared if he allowed himself the slightest comfort he would weaken and forsake his ideals. Mels Wallace was Human - not a hero, but a man. If that's Entertainment Tonight then sign me up. BTW, the end of Joan of Arc "as she bucks and twists her eyes find something, lock on" is taken directly from BH as Wallace eyes lock on the face of the child in the crowd. I must remind myself that many of the people who post on these TalkBacks are industry people who have a vested interest, either personal or professional, in attacking the works of another - especially the guy in front. Perhaps Hollywood is unforgiving of Mel because it just isn't permissible to be awesomely good looking, supremely multi-talented, courageous - and alive. Maybe people want to knock him down because he just simply refuses to fit into anyones mold. I think he's so far ahead of the pack that it takes too long for others to catch up. People don't like what they don't understand.
BraveHeart ... I'll tell you why I love it ... by JON1969	Sep 29th, 1999 01:27:07 PM
To Duke: Great posting ... Great! I will say this... a film can become great,in my eyes, because of its emotional core. BraveHeart is a great film... the scene in the beginning between young Wallace and the girl ... beautiful ... and that scene is brought to a complete circle when Mel returns the flower to his love years later... The scene between Mel and the young Queen ... when he reveals what happened to his wife and that the young Queen must open her eyes and just when he is nearly overcome with emotion ( a weakness that he could not fall back into) he tells "You tell your King that William Wallace will not be rule or any Scott while I live!" Good stuff ... good stuff. Films that move me ... those are the films I consider great ... in no particular order. Here it goes ... " Good Will Hunting ", "Chasing Amy"....
the last - rather long - seduction by drakelake	Sep 29th, 1999 05:16:30 PM
It sure is nice to believe that you would never fall into the trap of checking back into a talkback to see if anyone has responded to your post, but... what can I say, I'm only human - three parts water and one part ego! So I feel compelled to respond, a mite peevishly I know, to 'trepanned'. Let me state that I love films unequivocally. I'm a buttered popcorn and coke kid from way back. I love the thrill of cinema, whether it's 'The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms' or 'La Chinoise' - I like that feeling of searching out the obscure and wonderful as much as I can't help but stand in line for the hyped and woeful! Those people that supposedly 'suck all the life... out of movies' - those with some awareness of film theory - are often those making the damn things. What do you think happens at film school - it's not all about which end of the camera is which and finding out why film stock is different from chicken stock. Many of the directors of films over the last thirty or so years, many of whom you probably love and admire - have also studied film theory. Moreover, it is a sad kind of person who decides that the only love one can express for something is a transient, surface one. Don't you have a passion for something that you have made a point of finding out everything about? A period in history? A band? A collection of postage stamps? A football team? The fact is I can appreciate the ideas of someone like Christian Metz just as I can leave my brain at the door and holler and stomp during a screening of 'Starship Troopers'. Some flicks I'll walk right out of smiling, grab a coffee and a smoke and instantly the film's gone from my head. Others hit me on emotional levels I can't begin to dissect without a few years of hard therapy. Some others get the gears in my head turning over so damn hard that the neighbours complain about the racket. It is also fair to point out that I ain't a film teacher - I just happen to have read an average of two or so books a week for over 20 years or so (and if you think claiming you like to read a lot is boastful, then you are truly sad individual). In the process, I have read a fair number of post-structualist tracts. Along with a shitload of genre stuff, from horror to sf, books on Byzantine history, space and physics, Booker prize winners, biographies, graphic novels, plays - well, you get the gist. So I can say with some degree of certainty that Rufus is either not a film student at all, or not a particularly good (or pleasant) one, and provide some reasons for making that judgement. Much the same as, say, someone who had a reasonable idea about the rules of soccer, the English league and the last few FA Cups could pick someone up that clearly knows very little about the game, but wants to trumpet that knowledge as loudly as possible. Doesn't mean that the former person has to be a league player or a soccer historian. Just someone with a bit of passion for their subject. And a dislike for simplistic, sweeping judgements of the types made consistently by Rufus and, it appears, by yourself; judgements made on very little evidence but stemming from - in Rufus's case - a bloated self-image and a plethora of prejudices.
Not Again by Zeb	Sep 29th, 1999 07:17:54 PM
I didn't read this review because of the spoiler warning, but when I read Harry's comment about how Moriarty thought this movie was a transcendant piece of art, I nearly wasted my dinner. NOT EVERY MOVIE IS A GREAT MOVIE! If every movie lived up to its potential as described on this site, every movie would win the Best Picture Oscar. At this point, its clear that Harry and the rest are hiding it when they dislike a movie, so as not to dash anyone's hopes. That doesn't mean Moriarty doesn't like "The Messenger," but it seems like most people at this site are far too willing to overlook flaws in a movie. For Chrissakes, how 'bout some HONESTY in this insane world.
10 Best movies of 90's by darius25	Sep 29th, 1999 07:59:56 PM
1. Braveheart 2. Trainspotting 3. Eyes Wide Shut 4. Pulp Fiction 5. Interview With The Vampire 6. Schindler's List 7. Seven 8. The Matrix. 9. The Silence of the Lambs 10. Face/Off
My odd favorite choices>>> by darken	Sep 29th, 1999 09:27:35 PM
In no particular order, my personal selections that I can sit through an infinite number of times: (1) ELECTION (2) JURASSIC PARK (3) GREMLINS 2 (4) EDWARD SCISSORHANDS (5) BATMAN RETURNS (6) SCHINDLER'S LIST (7) SEVEN (8) SCREAM (9) TITANIC (10) OUT OF SIGHT
You evil Bastard by FLIMFLAM	Sep 29th, 1999 11:30:04 PM
You evil bastard Moriarty, what a strangely compelling and powerful review of events that happened long ago. Up till now there hasn't been a film that one would call worthy of the tragic and glorious saga that was Joan's life. I am hoping that this movie will be it - a movie that will harken back to the artistry and sheer emotional power of Peter Jackson's "Heavenly Creatures". Great movies are rare, great epics are rarer still. In five weeks we shall know. Keep that time machine of yours underwraps.
Why there are so many positive reviews on AICN by Loki Trickster	Sep 30th, 1999 12:11:56 AM
You know, maybe the reason that Moriarty and Harry give so many great reviews is not because they're media shills, or puppets of the studios, or trying to not disappoint anyone...perhaps they give good reviews because, well fuck, maybe they like movies. Harry seems to like even shitty movies, and Moriarty (while having slightly better tastes) seems to like a lot of movies. Of course, another reason that good reviews are coming out is that there are really good movies coming out. It's been a long time since so many better-than-decent movies have come out...of course there's still a lot of shit coming out, but they don't normally review the shitty movies unless they're superhumanly shitty...most bad movies they probably don't even go to...perhaps that has something to do with the good reviews they write...or am I just talking out of my ass? -Loki
My Top Ten of the 90s (uh, guys, this decade ain't over yet...) by Nordling	Sep 30th, 1999 03:56:03 AM
This late in the game, it's unlikely that anyone will read this but fuck it... 10. Glengarry Glen Ross...9. Lone Star (to the idiot mutha who said this was overrated...you don't live in Texas, that's pretty damn obvious. I knew these people.) 8. The Iron Giant(the best American animated film of the decade) 7. Seven. (Will Fight Club beat this?) 6. American Beauty. (The more I think about this film, the greater it gets.) 5. Ed Wood. (Tim Burton's best, hands down.) 4. Pulp Fiction. 3. Reservoir Dogs. 2. The Truman Show. (I work in a video store, where this is on the playlist. EVERY time I see this again something different shows up. Watch this about 20 times and prove me wrong. This is a phenomenal work.) 1. Schindler's List. (The best film of the decade. No other film - including Shoah - has brought the Holocaust so personally home. And the quality of the filmmaking and acting is stunning. this will be the one remembered for the ages.) To say this decade's movies sucked is to sell it far too short. If you spent your 90's riding the hype machine you deserved the letdowns that Godzilla, Batman and Robin, and Armageddon gave you. As American Beauty said, look closer. There were some films here that would never have been made anywhere else. This list doesn't even really come close. Next month it'll probably be entirely different. (Did Miller's Crossing come out in 1990? If so, I'll have to readjust...)
Luc Besson Official website opening by Mr_blue_eyes	Oct 1st, 1999 04:57:10 AM
Luc Besson's official website is open. There is lots of new Joan of Arc info there (pictures, costume information, and more!). Warning : many pages are still under construction. www.luc-besson.com Salut
About my last message... by Mr_blue_eyes	Oct 1st, 1999 05:13:31 AM
Hey, I've made an error when I was sending my last message. The beginning is good but the Luc Besson's french letter has nothing to do with it. Sorry.
THANK YOU ALL!!! by The Consul	Oct 1st, 1999 01:06:32 PM
I think everyone really deserves a pat on the back for really offering something to the conversation. I really care about what you all have to say. I always feel sad when I think of Joan of Arc. It's not good to be burnt at the stake. Some people are talking about it looking cool. But it's not cool to be burnt at the stake. I think this movie sounds pretty good and I'm going to go and see it. I think Besson is great. And his movies are great. I think Joan is great. So I think these elements really work togeter. Great Director + Great subject matter makes a great movie. I think Moriarty is great too. We should all give a round of applause to Moriarty for evoking such powerful emotions in his review.
Great review by endorwitch	Oct 2nd, 1999 09:04:49 AM
Thank you for the review - I was sitting here reading the other day with two thoughts running through my head - "THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU...." and "YOUBARSTARDYOUBARSTARDYOUBARS TARD...." I am dying to see this film! And so far as I know it isn't being released in Australia till February 10 next year - what a load of crap! Well later kids! ~rebecca "I'm just the messenger" PS - I have also ordered that En attendant Jeanne book from www.fnac.fr that you guys had all those pictures from!
How does it compare? by Spock	Oct 2nd, 1999 11:38:32 AM
I'm not gonna post a list of my favourite films here, and I'm not going to add any fuel to the fires already raging in this TalkBack, nor comment on the relevance of all that whining and complaining and cursing. All I'd like to do is ask Moriarty if he saw the "Joan of Arc" miniseries with Leelee Sobieski, and how does it compare with Luc Besson's new film? I've seen a few parts of the miniseries and found it very, very boring, but most of the time, it kept me wondering why people back in them Middle Ages were so clean and wore so much makeup. It was medieval France, people. People back then, including legendary heroines, weren't glamourous. Thank You! By the way, Mister Moriarty, nice review, and I can't wait to see the movie.
messenger questions and other flicks by Rosymedre	Nov 21st, 1999 06:20:02 PM
Good evening everyone... I was completely disillusioned by The Messenger...I didn't particularly like the strange unloving portrayel of Christ, although he was engrossing in that mighty, supernatural way. On top of that, (and please correct me if I'm wrong) it appeared that Satan (Dustin Hoffman)is the one who confessed/absolved Joan in those last scenes. How is that possible? What did you (the reader) think about the cross? I've been reeling about this for days...someone help please... By the way, why don't we mention great movies like Sliding Doors and Dangerous Beauty? What about Legend, or The Last Unicorn...? What about awe inspiring movies like The Never Ending Story or Willow or The Secret of Nim or Photographing Fairies? What about Ice Storm, K2, Good Morning Vietnam, Star Man, and Benny and Joon? What about Hoosiers? I suppose these might not be classics, but I feel like the only person in the world who loves them anyway.

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