Tell new stories, or go home.

I had too high of expectations for JJ's Trek, but found that it fell flat. Was it fun? Yes! Was it Star Trek? No.

JJ is gonna have to pull a "Wrath of Khan" to make me believe he's the right guy for the job, but that doesn't mean hacking out a remake of WoK.

Good God I hope that JJ and co. pull off an "Empire Strikes Back" with this franchise. Please don't let it devolve like Transformers 2 did. (boborci PLEASE!!!)

You know, for AsimovLives.

Make sure you never forget about Arab's Star Trek.

And this time around, you might want to invest a dime or two to get an actual script instead of a bunch of lens flares and cheap-ass slapstick.

Name me one memorable line of dialogue from this years Star Trek film. Please.

The other films didn't have good production values? At least they didn't shoot their engine room in a factory.

It might not come out for three years... no one involved in the film is going to give any hint of who is in the movie.

and I hope they DON'T re-cast Khan. Not because I don't think they could pull it off, but because I'm tired of hearing everyone assume that's where it should go. Khan was an original villain. Doesn't this crew deserve their own original villain who could potentially be just as famous as Khan?

I know Orci has this notion that the two disparate timelines are supposed to somehow reintegrate themselves (like a wound healing, forming a temporal "scab") but fucking-a, Bob- get creative and try something new with this storytelling parole you've given yourselves.

You know what? i understand that the guy is hired to make a product for the studio to sell,that he is not trying to make art here,he is not trying to add something new in this franchise,to make movies which will express his personal vision and expand a mythology like Star Trek.

he is not a creator,an artist who will give passion and care about his movie,he is a plumber,an electrician,a cable guy,who is just hired to do a job for you.yes he will do a good job,he is worthy of your paycheck,but at the end he is only someone who fixes or sells things and nothing else.

at the end thats what separates great artists from cheap immitators: the former give everything for their art,the latter dont give anything,they just take and sell.

"I know that dog!"

"I like this ship! It's exciting!"

"Who was that pointy-eared bastard?"

"I may throw up on ya."

/bait

IMHO seeing that version would be like experiencing a whole new character.

heh,something funny that might happen,is that the official topic gets updated after you post your fairytale,and simply declares as false their original news report.so be careful with that,dont be hasty.

In fact, that's my casting choice; AsimovLives IS Khan! From Hell's heart, he stabs at Abrams, for hate's sake, he spits his last breath at thee!

I can't bare to watch the original series. It isn't groovy...it isn't science...it is just "corny." There is just only so much of the Shatner wigs, girdles and and camera closeups of his pancake/mascara makeup that I can handle!

...and GALAXY QUEST.

It will remain safe from the likes of them.

That means he will be doing even shittier movies to make money - although I do not know how that is even possible!

Be prepared for an awesome onslaught of truly shitty Nic Cage movies!

I'm glad it was changed because the same theme came across perfectly with Ricardo Montalban.

Instead, a Klingon Bird-of-Prey finds it and, thinking it's just a piece of space-junk, uses it for target-practice.

Maybe it's a D'oh!-class bird-of-prey...

As long as Bones doesn't go back and save her, Edith Keeler will die like she's suppose to.

Akiva, I hope that you're telling the truth. Please give us a good Klingon War.

Aw hell, just roll all the known serial killers into one big cosmic entity and let the remake commence.

Considering that the Q-Continuum exists outside of time, surely Q knows all about both timelines.

Maybe from Q's point-of-view, harrassing humanity in this timeline would just be a pain-in-the-ass exercise and a wasteful duplication of effort.

Q on the phone with a Q-Continuum flunky: "They did what to the timeline? Oh for fuck's sake. No, I'm not going to bother going through all THAT again. Get someone else to do it. What do you mean nobody else is available? Get Marty to do it. I don't care if he's taking this eon off from work! Well, you're gonna have to find someone, cuz I ain't doin' it."

For instance have the botany bay arrive in some semi-primitive world where Khan and his crew quickly become their masters and transform the planet into a galactic empire which,along with romulans and klingos,is a considerable threat for the federation.

Dont make Khan just another baddie with a grudge.Make him a permanent presence in the ST universe,since he is so beloved by fans,give him a lot of ground to play with his character (ie his empire symbolizes nazism as it was orginally intended int TOS),and make Kirk to be his permanent thorn in his butt,which creates a relationship between them.Explore that relationship between Khan and Kirk (rivalry,respect,loath,etc) ,progress it and later in some other movie,if you wish you can give it its final resolution.

wouldnt it be ironical that Federation greatest threats comes from a sin of their past,in fact a very dark part of their human history? (nazism,fascism,ww2,playing god,etc)

Khan is a character with a great potential to just be in one or two movies and have him chasing Kirk for exiling him.he has already done this,make him do something else,something more.

Kirk: Mr Khan, suddenly I wish to leave your planet.

Khan: It is not possible.

Kirk: Bullshit, Mr. Khan-man.

Its a roller coaster ride of:

Fixing that WILL take imagination, but it's a nice challenge for any serious creative team IMHO.

it gets worse as time passes.

Now that the NCC-1701 wasn't even LAUNCHED on the same date as before, that is all screwed up.

You COULD interpret that as a "fuck you", I suppose. I prefer to imagine the myriad really, really cool stories you could come up with that revolve around something that happens because the Enterprise wasn't there to stop it.

- Talos IV isn't quarantined because Pike's Enterprise didn't go there.

- The Planet Killer is still out there causing havok.

- No Federation ships are close enough to Earth to stop V'Ger.

- No Federation ships are close enough to Earth to stop the "Whale Ship".

- The Space Amoeba is still out there causing havok.

- Apollo is still on his planet, causing havok.

- Landreu's planet is still under the thrall of their computer overlord.

- Eminiar VII is still locked in it's never-ending, computer-controlled war.

- Etc, etc, etc...

On board a silent freighter sits a ticking time bomb-- one of Earth's most notorious tyrants! Hitler? Bonaparte? Wrong- KHAN! Not since the 1982 hit "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" has this iconic villain appeared on the big screen. But J.J. Abrams and writers Bob Orci & Alex Kurtzman (both writers of last summer's mega-hit "View Master: Into The 5th Dimension of 3-D") decided that the iconic villain needed some updating. Sorry, Ricardo Montalban, but your Khan is history!

Donning the chest-baring role is Academy Award-winning actor Nicholas Cage ("Bangkok Dangerous"). "I swear to you I see the artistic integrity in this character," says Francis Ford Coppola's nephew. "My accountant and I were both really blown away by the script."

What does this new version of Khan have that the original article lacked? "Balls!" Says J.J. Abrams. "Actually two large, red balls. In the last movie we had one large ball and that grossed us over $200 million domestic. So, by that calculation, we decided that two large balls will put us safely over $400 million. You should have seen the reaction at ShoWest. I had theater guys coming up to me and asking 'How do you make those balls happen onscreen?' I mean, really, wow- balls are what people want."

So, the question everyone is asking is will William Shatner make a cameo this time around? We went to the source and asked the original Captain James Kirk himself for a hint- "I cannot be any more direct with you- fuck J.J. Abrams, that malodorous cunt." That sounds like a lukewarm denial to us!

why do you want to know my age?

And ST 6 was damn good for a ST movie. Klingon Von Trap was a good time.

Lazy --fucking-- writers!! Either do something original *just fucking try* or not at all. You no-talent punks. Then again JJ's already running a deficit with that first headless flash-fest. It only made money because there are a lot of people out there that will even eat shit just so long as its something they know.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! !

Comedy, thy name is Royston.

My subjective opinion.

CGI Montalban! YES!

---- kwisatzhaderach

that was a great line - well delivered by Bones as well

Although I'm worried about Avatar... Reeks of heavy handed preachyness. Even the trailer reeks of it "this little metal is the reason we want to wipe out all the pretty planet loving blue cat people..." *barf*

I haven't made up my mind yet but if that is really the point of the movie I'll be waiting for a download.

I watched it a few weeks back too, and I thought perhaps the end fight between the queen and Rip was a good analogy for the 80's backlash against women.

I didn't say i don't like James Cameron films...just a good portion of a few of them.

Only boobies made it almost worth watching.

And yes, Aliens had feminists and lesbians cheering in the aisles when Ripley delivers the kiss-off line to the Alien Queen.

I wouldn't call him genre bending. But he is does know his existing genres.

The bloated "nesting" queen going after the next generation (newt), with Ripley decked out in blue collar attire...from the future.

I think he's best combining hard science fiction and Hollywood thrills.

But folks such as lockes, nerd and titbag, have no talent. I have never once laughed at them. They all have a dumabass unfunny gimmick that they have beaten to death and raised into zombiehood.

I do think the Gmen will triumph. Coughlin will be in their grill. Manning can not play any worse. And no, it is not plantar fascism or whatever, it is stupid decision making to throw into obvious double coverage. I think they rebound over your chargers. If not, Fred will make fun of me again! Ha!

Fuck this fuckety film! It sucks diseased rat 'nads! It will eat fried monkey balls dipped in chicken shit!I really love Transformers! Ahh! Fuck! Shit! Piss! No Ma, don't turn out the light yet! No don't come in!

You are now a certified Troll. Go find a bridge.

The Chargers have a good O, but their D is very suspect. Still, if Eli thinks it is fuckin Christmas, then the the Gmen are fucked again.

IMHO such happenings would be very much like Star Trek in any incarnation.

I still prefer boxing.

Like my belly button...I'm Outie!

C'ya Morbius

As far as I am concerned, Trek XI suffers from a poorly written story, unimaginative artistic decisions, and a basic ignorance of the established universe they are playing in.

If Abrams and Co are reading this: try doing some research. Take some writing lessons! Something! But since you have already stated that you will be making the sequel with the same "commercial appeal", you probably will produce the same brain-numbing summer crap that constitutes the majority of summer films. And besides, I doubt you have it in you to produce something that appeals to the intellect as well as the senses, instead of merely the latter. (consider this to be a challenge: prove me wrong).

There are many things wrong with this movie. If it pleases a body to ignore them, that is their choice. It's a pity that standards have sunk so low, but I guess that is true of Society in general. But the acceptance and rewarding of mediocrity will only serve to continue the downward spiral.

I'm no mere "hater", although I do dislike this movie. And if anyone would like to continue this dialog on the demerits and merits (there were a few) of this movie, I should be happy to. But if all you're going to say is "F you, hater!" then all I'm going to say is "F you too, you brainless Denebian slime devil."

Star Trek is ONLY deep literary allegory ...to a fucking nine year old. That Star Trek had the luxury of courting several science fiction/classical literary illuminaries such as Harlan Ellison, or Nicholas Myer, were rare occasions and in no way shape or form defined the genre or overall theme of the series. Make no mistake, Star Trek from it's original inception was low brow, shoot at the hip, outer space fun and adventure. The format of the program permits MANY iterations, drama, horror, satire, allegory, depending on the writer of the week and angle chosen to craft the story.

You two or three cunts don;t know a fucking thing about Star Trek. Especially this shit head Asshole smooches that clearly jerked off to Voyager and Enterprise one too many times.

Abrams Trek was a hit, a damn good movie, with a HIGHLY entertaining script, so you pinhead cunts can go fuck yourselves mightily. You anhedonic cocksuckers.

It all hinges on the details on HOW it's done imo.

guys, what were the best parts of star trek - the action in space, the enterprise beauty shots, the crew dynamic... make this film absolutely loaded with that and we're on a winner regardless of what takes place.... im hoping klingons are NOT in this next film. Kahn can wait a few films

I have no problem comparing the best episodes of TOS, TNG, DS9, and even VOY against Trek XI. Episodes like City on the Edge of Forever, The Doomsday Machine, The Best of Both Worlds, In the Pale Moonlight (just to name a *very* few) and some of the movies, run rings around Trek XI every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

There was more thought put into those stories than what we got in this movie. You liked it, fine. Did it do well at the box office. Sure, but so did Transformers 2. Tells me a little something about modern audiences. But you can't tell me it was a good movie, 'cause it just ain't true.

When it comes to Khan, the alternative timeline is the only way to reboot him, which is basically what Nolan did with Batman and the Joker. It's been said in other TBs that TDK is a benchmark which makes sense imo. I own a VHS of Burton's Batman with the iconic Nicholson Joker, which I have watch countless times, but now Ledger owns the Joker. Same thing could happen with Khan with the right actor and alternate timeline story.

I disagree, they really trashed the Kirk character. Before, he was a studious over-achiever ("a stack of books with legs" "in his class, you either think or sink"). Here, he behaves like a frat boy from Chico State. Lose a mother, go to the Dark Side, Lose a father, become a jackass, I guess.

The Kobayashi Maru scene, which could have been an iconic, character-defining moment, was instead treated like an afternoon at the arcade.

This brings up another point. Starfleet Academy is like our own service academies: hard to get into, and even harder to graduate from. Kirk wouldn't have lasted 3 weeks let alone 3 years, acting as he did.

Kirk's character wasn't the only one to suffer, Scotty was either a punchline or a Deus Ex Machina plot device (transporting onto a ship, that was lightmonths, or even lightyears away. No real need for starships, then). The less said about bloated hands, and Mr. Scott's Water theme park, the better.

"Didn't D9 also get accepted by your tired "mass audiences" argument?"

I don't know, was it? I was under the impression it had poorer ratings than TNG.

Regardless, I didn't say the whole of DS9 (any of the series) was better than Trek XI, but I'd say that most of the episodes are.

For the record, I'm not a douche. I don't know you, so I don't know if you're a douche. If anyone's a hater here, its you.

Also for the record, I dislike Trek XI as much as Insurrection or Nemesis. Its too bad, with a lot more work on the story and script, it could have been something special. Ah well.

But I will say that Pine's Kirk had a different character arc because unlike Shatner's Kirk, the loss of his father clearly had an enormous, negative impact. Secondly, Pike's weight in Star Fleet is what got Kirk into and through the academy and remember, Pike felt Kirk's free wheeling ways were qualities desperately lacking but sorely needed in Star Fleet officers.

This is the longest I've hung with a TB in ages. I did the Ferris Bueller thing today, but not so for tommorrow. It's been fun.

Graffiti covered the walls, a large painting of Our Lady of Guadalupe surrounded by stylized Lowriders, Aztec Warriors, and “Laughing/Crying “jokers faces with a tear drop falling from one decorated wall in front of him, Behind him the word Surenos arched over a painting of a naked brown skinned woman set against the background of Flag of Mexico, the smell of marijuana hung heavy in the air. No…Bill Shatner sure as fuck didn’t have friends like this…but it was obvious Leonard did.

“Stop shaking Bill” Nimoy said as he sat on the old brown couch …”our friend in New York has arranged this…these are allies, powerful allies…and with this latest news, ones that will be all too willing to put an end to Orci and Abrams”. Bill glanced over at Nimoy, his face coated in sweat. It wasn’t often Shatner regretted his amazing size, after all it was a sign of wealth and power to be a “large” male…The Buddha was fat, various Caesars were fat, and his favorite King Henry the VIII was a big man; No Bill had big appetites, and the wealth to indulge them…but right now he regretted it as his heart strained against 300 pounds to keep pace with the anxiety building in him. “But….Leonard…these…th ese people…they seem to be…Mexican Mafia!” whispered Shatner , his voice rushed. “Ahh…” Nimoy said, somewhat surprised, “…you know of them, Surprising…and unexpected. And here I though you never ventured out of Brentwood” Nimoy chuckled. “ Bill…these are Surenos…allies of La Eme, street soldiers..the ones who get the jobs done for the bosses up in Pelican Bay. The Rabbi sent word to his contacts there…and they arranged for this meeting…with someone whose name you might recognize, even if his face you do not.” Nimoy looked cool…at home in such dangerous surroundings…” like Ice…” thought Shatner, “…I’m glad he never took my spotlight hogging personal…I’d be dead”

Shatner stiffened as he heard a car pull up outside, Spanish language hip-hop was playing loudly, followed by the popping sounds of air escaping from something. “Bill…I’ll do the talking. You have played your part well…Orci and Abrams are relaxing…they are still unsure about me…but they believe they have gained your trust. Now…now we start to turn up the heat, and at the same time…wait for the true enemy, my betrayer, to make his mistake.

The door swung open and in walked a large Latino man in his late 30’s. He wore a white wife beater, his arms rippling with the results of years of jail yard boredom and hours with free weights; under his left eye a single teardrop, the word Sureno was tattoo’d upon the right side of his neck, on the left bicep the words “R.I.P. Abuelo”. Leonard stood…staring at the threatening figure…and spoke hard and with authority. “Are you Ricardo Gonzalo Pedro Montalbán the III, son of Victor Montalban?” The man looked at the two old actors before him and spoke, “Who the FUCK wants to know…”, Shater steadied his breathing sure trouble was moments away, but Nimoy continued; “…Who the Fuck wants to know?” he said walking close to the mans face…holding his gaze, stopping just inches from him, and in a fast move grabbing the muscled thug by the hair said…”…The ones who are here to save the legacy and honor of your Grandfather..thats FUCKING who” And releasing the man moved away. “…I was told you would come…” the Ricardo said…”…I am sorry to disrespect you…for my grandfather ...I would do anything….to protect his honor…I would kill my own son…” Leonard looked at him hard and long….”Nothing so drastic as that…but let me tell you what two men seek to do to his legacy…and then we’ll talk about…”Killing”, you might find that more humane than they deserve” Ricardo shut the door…as Leonard began to tell him about Orci and Abrams plans for his grandfathers greatest character…..

As for other fighters conditioning, I think Rich Franklin or Shawn Sherk can match any boxers cardio level. Heavyweights in MMA (excluding Fedor, Brock and a few others) are pretty much un-athletic goons. It suffers the same problem as boxing's heavyweight division does know - all the athletic big guys are getting into football or basketball. That is where the money is (and less head shots).

You're points are well taken, but I really doubt one can go through a service academy and not be changed. The classmates of mine from High School who attended West Point or Annapolis certainly were.

Thanks for the civil response, and have a good day.

Raison d'etre, HAH!

And is it Chris, as in Columbus?

You cocksucking motherfucker.

I have practically no issues with Abram's Trek, I loved it through and through. They could just make it a great space adventure, if they need ideas, I have loads!

And if they really have to steal an old idea, use The Borg, make them scary like in First Contact.

But the rest of it was so much fun, I even liked the bit when Kirk has the reaction and his hands and tongue swell up. Made me laugh.

I thought it was fine, a hundred times better than Nemesis.

Like most i do not hate Nemesis. It was a nice send off i thought, and i liked the way it mirrored Wrath Of Khan.

Wrath Of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, Generations, First Contact. I loved them all, and even the ones i didnt like that much, had stuff about them that i liked.

The 2009 Star Trek made me grin when i left the cinema, unlike any film i have seen for years, it reminded me why i fell with Star Trek in the first place. It was the characters, so i didnt care if the Enterprises naccelles werent the right shape, i enjoyed it for what it was.

To all the haters, do you really think Star Trek could have survived in its earlier form? It obviously wasnt connecting with audiences anymore, but the new one does, and I'm grateful for that.

Almost every plot was a recycled TOS/TNG/DS9 story. And i wonder how many of those 180 episodes, how many times were problems solved my technobabble and recalibrating the main deflector? I'm willing to bet 60-70%

And the biggest sin of all time, the one thing for which Voyager should be condemmed for eternity. It took one of Star Treks, nay one of televisions, best villains and turned them into an unthreatening pantomime version. Obviously I'm talking about the Borg.

I remember first seeing the Borg on TNG, being so curious about them, then i realised what they really were and i was hiding behind the sofa.

Voyager started very nicely, with some genuine conflict and interesting alien ideas, but after season 2 this was all forgotten.

And why, after seven years, was Harry Kim still a fucking ensign????

For a narrative about time travel AS WELL as alternate realities I thought the script was pretty fucking solid and tight actually all things considering. Contrast the script for '09 with a flaccid turd like Generations, or Insurrection, or the Final Frontier, or Nemesis. You pale smarmy sea urchen cunt, you wouldnt know good screen-writing if it slapped you in the face with it's hard bound penile device.

You sit down and write a screen play that at once serves as a relaunch, reboot, time travel, alternate reality , legacy honoring screenplay you twisted piece of shit. I dare you, I fucking challenge you.

You tired two or three cunts aren't fucking movie critics gets the hell out of here. Bunch of arm-chair wannabe critics that don't know a fucking thing about constructing a narrative. Bite my dick KWITZ, with your shitty movie namesake.

Orci , Kurtman, and Abrams, and the cast, deserve fat ass kudos for taking a 40 year old property, stale, old and tired, irrelevant, and making it fucking RELEVANT again.

Funny

He sees this news and a little piece of him dies. Swearing vengeance, he goes to LIsbon harbour to peddle his ass in return for passage to America.

JJ Abrams beware!

For a Star Trek movie to make 280 million dollars , especially today, is fucking UNPRECEDENTED.

And I'm not a Portuguese goat molester.

I dont believe for a second that the writers and director didnt already have an idea for sequels in their heads and on paper.

I trust them to do the right thing here, Khan will be left in the past, let's see something new and exciting to go with the wonderful swagger of new Trek.

It was too clinical, technically brilliant but detached, when i left the cinema i felt depressed. I think Iron Man is more like the gold standard, it was a proper comic book movie, not a depress fest.

I presume that all of the namecalling is just trolling, in order to keep the argument going, so I'm not going to lower myself to that level, but if you are referring to me personally, then it would be most helpful to use my handle somewhere in the insult, so that I can know that you are indeed referring to me. Vague descriptions like Douche or Cunt could refer to anyone, including yourselves. :)

But I did hear a challenge in there: demonstrate how Trek XI script was so bad. I'll see what I can cobble together afternoon/evening.

As for District 9, I found it to better written and acted than Trek XI. Not perfect, but certainly better. The fickle masses didn't like it as much as the other summer fare, but they did respond to it, so perhaps all hope is not lost.

Drsambeckett1984, you're right. The VOY-Crew killed the Borg (and I mean the writer's staff, NOT uneven "main"characters on board). BUT I'll never regret watching the whole series. I've had similar problems with TNG also (Hugh!). But there are gems in all of the incarnations - as there are plain stupid episodes! The stupidity percentage rate just grew exponentially with ENT!

Mind you, I'm not a Trekker/Trekkie. I just don't want to see the new franchise go back to that long, dried well.

You think they should stick with Montalbán?

"Captain, No ship has ever gone within a light year of the core. We would be torn apart"

" No we won't Spock. You've gotta trust me"

" Trust has nothing to do with this, I am simply stating facts".

" Consider them stated. Mr Sulu, set course for the centre of the galaxy. Maximum warp"

Agree that doing something different is not hard. Doing something different with something familiar... that's hard.

The ship and the crew are familiar; nothing else needs to be. Just go crazy. See what comes out.

If you have to redo one of the films, I suggest that you redo the entire V-GER storyline. That actually had potential.

I think that his input will be extremely important to the new timeline.

And no...creativity does not mean putting more chompers and smashers in the Steam Punk Engine room for your characters to use as silly slap stick devices. Here is a clue...easily broken, transparent coolant tubes winding around without reason for your characters to get transported into is full on Galaxy Quest my friend.

His fears? How to do this woithout getting brough up on sexual harrasment charges or being thrown out an airlock.

Seriously..there are lots of places you could take THIS version of Kirk, the feelings of abandonment after his mother obviously spend most of her time off planet after hubby was offed; the pressure to live up to the "George Kirk" Legacy...which might make for some reckless behavior, or his loneliness being in command at such a young age with few to lean on who are not his subordinates, which might make for leadership issues as he does not want to piss of the only REAL family he has. Like I said..lots of area to explore.

However...I predict we will get more easily fascinated Vulcans, "sassy" Uhura moments, Douche Bag Scotty unfunniness with his "why the fuck is he here..I didn't know you could keep bipedal pets in Star Fleet" sidekick, and a big heaping does of SLush flavored lens flares.

Just youtube the French can-can and you'll get the picture. :-)

Besides...if Orci, Kurtzman, and Abrams don't write her in, she's doomed to career based on Comic-Con appearances.

I thought Star Trek was wonderfully cast, but the motarded script with the insane coincidences just ripped me out of the movie. The horrible direction, and the truly fucked up characterization of Kirk just killed me as well. And speaking as a former member of the military, there is no fucking way, in no fucking century, in no fucking galaxy populated by human beings, that a disgraced cadet can go from being on the verge of being kicked out of the academy to being promoted to Captain of a fucking garbage scow let alone a Starship!

It was dumbass, and truly lazy writing such as that; and future Spock being on the same planet as a marooned Kirk. Who was kicked off a ship during a war - in warp? Why? Why? Stun his ass. Lock him in a brig. Drug him if you think he will somehow jimmy the lock. Put the hottest and horneist yeoman in the brig with him and let him fuck his brains out. But you cant come up with any other excuse to allow Kirk to meet future Spock? Not to mention Scotty being on the same planet who just happens to invent a device that can transport to a ship in warp!

It was that and the pussification of Kirk who was one of the greatest fighters of all time.

It was terrible writing and direction. That being said, the movie was not horrible, it had some moments that provied popcorn entertainment. But if boborci or anyone else involved has read this far, then do one thing: Focus on the fucking Enterprise! It aint a prop! It is the star!

Columbus? Really?

The reason Wrtha of Khan is so loved is because it returned to the kick ass eps of Star Trek and it focused on the true star - the Enterprise in battle!

Yes, Kirk, Spock and Bones need to be string as well, but the Ship is the true star.

I am not saying saying it must be battle without plot or characterization. One of the greatest TOS eps is the 'submarine in space' - not the real title, battle between the Enterprise and the Romulans. It was magnificent. The tension waas palpable. That is what WOK captured.

WOK was also a much 'smaller' movie. Primarily because they did not have the budget of the first one. But it proved that you do not have to be 'bigger and better'. Just tell a ripping yarn. And make the Enterprise the Star!

If you "see" him, ask him if he is a Pink Floyd fan. I wanna see how he reacts.

7-1 btm 5th

That's taking something old-- and in need of a new take (Sybok) and doing something new with it. And Spock has a new perspective on emotions as a result of losing his mother in the last movie, so maybe he too finds Sybok persuasive.

No other TREK villian seems to match him in that regard.

BTW although he was supposed to have ruled in the mid 1990s, there is a line of dialogue (from Spock?) that says "Records of that period are fragmented however." IMHO therein lies the opportunity to take the Khan story in another direction.

Based on this summer, its highly tempting to say that the Popularity/Box Office Receipts of a movie is proportional to amount of spectacle (i.e. the sensory appeal) and inversely proportional to the “intelligence” (a subjective measure, no doubt) of the film (script, story, dialog, etc). Looking at just three data points from this summer: District 9, Star Trek XI, and Transformers 2, I would personally rank them as follows :

The Writing (proportional to the Intelligence of the movie): Transformers 2 < Star Trek XI

Based on the amount of “spectacle” in the movie, I would rank them thusly: District 9 < Trek XI < Transformers 2. This ranking also follows the amount of money each movie made. The box office receipts would seem to bare out my earlier supposition that Spectacle and Box Office are proportional.

However, reality isn’t usually that simple, and this is no exception. Consider the box office receipts of The Dark Knight. I thought that this was the best of last year’s crop of movies (I didn’t see every movie that came out last year, but of the few that I did see, this was the best): well written, acted, and realized (yes, I liked Iron Man, warts and all, but it doesn’t compare, sorry). It had enough spectacle to keep the attention of average movie goers, but the script was intelligent enough to keep me happy (even if I didn’t fully buy into some of the characters and their motivations). And TDK went on to do over a billion dollars of business worldwide.

But how much of its business was derived from a morbid interest in the death of Heath Ledger (very good performance in TDK, no doubt about it)? I have no way of factoring that out, but even then, TDK shows how a film that appeals to both the senses and the intellect could still make money at the box office. Obviously, this is a gamble. A payoff is not assured, and indeed, is less likely than a movie made purely for the spectacle.

So, Abrams, Orci, or Kurtzman, if any you are reading this, make Trek XII a Dark Knight, and not a Transformers 2. I still won’t take back what I’ve said about Trek XI, but you will be in my good graces. :-)

Here is a brief list of the problems that I had with this movie, in the order that I can recall them, as well as some, hopefully, constructive criticism.

Why not start out as complete reboot? Like the Marvel Ultimate line of comics, the movie could have started fresh, and not have to worry about continuity. The premise could have been retooled to accommodate the advancement of time and knowledge. Want to revisit Khan? The 1990’s have come and gone and no Eugenics Wars? No problem. In the “Ultimate” Trek universe, they occurred in the 2090’s instead. Cochrane’s warp flight, the foundation of the Federation, etc is also similarly advanced in time. Add some more time for earth to recover from the Eugenics Wars/WWIII. Get the picture? It’s a little late now, but you get the idea.

The movie is essentially a sequel to a comic book. Important plot elements central to the movie are (so I’ve heard, I haven’t read the thing) developed in the comic book prequel. From Nero’s motivations (although they are briefly mentioned in the movie) to the appearance and technology of the Narada, the story depends on an external non-movie source. I’ve nothing against comics. I have no problem with movies based on comics, or even comics based on movies. But comics and movies are not on the same plane, and grafting them together, in my opinion just doesn’t work. You could point out that TWOK or Serenity had similar flaws, and you would be correct to do so, but those movie’s strengths allow me to forgive much. In short: sequels to movies or even to TV series: acceptable if well done. Sequels to or continuations of comics: weak and lazy.

The drama is rushed. Too much mayhem to really connect to the drama. From Kirk’s death scene to the demise of Vulcan, I don’t’ really have time to connect with events on the screen. Just too much spectacle. These scenes were just a series of unfortunate events, and nothing more. I’ve read that some people were “moved” by Kirk’s self-sacrifice and death. Really? I guess they must need institutionalization after watching the average “chick flick” emo-crapfest (I’m being a little harsh perhaps…). Rushed drama = No dramatic tension.

The character development. Of all the things to “reimagine”, the characters are perhaps the worst choice, with one exception. As I’ve noted before, Kirk’s character went from being a confident over-achiever to an annoying frat boy. That’s not an improvement. And even better, he gets to skip over his years of advancement (and learning) by going from a third year academy student to captain of the Federation flagship. So, no serving on the USS Republic or Farragut, etc. Seems to me that they are cutting out experiences that are central to the development of the character, in order to get him directly into the captains chair by the end of the episode.

Since when is Scotty comic relief? Sure he could drink a Kelvan under the table or have a bar room fight with Klingons and have a good time doing it, but he is essentially a serious fellow. Comparisons have been made between Mr. Scott and his little friend and C3PO and R2D2, but he just isn’t that kind of character. “The man is not a punch line.”

One bit of characterization that I didn’t mind: Spock. In the TOS, he was always struggling with his human half, identifying primarily with his Vulcan side. After TMP and beyond, he seemed more at ease with his human half. This time around, he is starting out more comfortable with his human half. I don’t disagree with this, but I want to see how this plays out.

The artistic design: The external appearances of the star ships were interesting, I would like to get a closer look at the other ships in the task force that left space dock, though. The space dock visualization was well implemented, even if its design was pedestrian.

I’m not a big fan of the new Enterprise, but I’m not a fan of the appearance of the 1701-D, either, but I learned to stomach it eventually. The interior spaces on the Enterprise/Kelvin were just flat out ridiculous. I’ve heard that they filmed some of those scenes in a brewery. Oh, that’s imaginative. And building the thing out in the open in Iowa, outside of a highbay or clean room, I don’t think so. In real life I help build (mere) satellites and not starships, but I’m willing to bet that a starship is not going to look like a water treatment plant or be assembled in the snow. And what’s up with those plastic curtains on the shuttle that the Kelvin’s captain pilots? Did he take the frozen produce shuttle over to the Narada? C’mon production designer, earn your pay!

The Science and Engineering. OK, this series has warp drive, transporters (including the laughable Heisenberg Compensators), and, at least during the run of TNG, a subscription to the Particle of the Month club. So, perhaps I can’t complain too much, therefore, I am going to write off the black hole as a “spatial/temporal anomaly” and not really a singularity, in the “traditional sense”. However, the anomaly generator/lava lamp is fair game. This is not the first time Mr. Abrams has displayed his lava lamp fetish, but if he’s looking for some sort of directorial stamp or signature, then he needs to find a better one. Floating masses of Red liquid are just silly looking.

According to Classic Spock, the event which destroyed Romulus and sent Nero over the edge, was that a nearby star, according to the comic, the Hobus star, was about to go supernova (a slight bit of hyperbole on the part of Classic Spock, a supernova or even the hypothetical hypernova wouldn’t threaten the entire galaxy, but even if it did, the threat would only move at the speed of light). Its apparent close proximity to Romulus, on the order of a few lightweeks, would seem to make it unlikely that its condition would go unnoticed. Since the shockwaves would take weeks to reach Romulus, it would come as no surprise to a warp-drive capable civilization.

But even if Romulus is completely lost in the future, Nero’s trip to the past would have been better spent warning Romulus, giving them all the marvelous 24th century Borg Tech (the Narada) and then going to kill Spock, et. al. Apparently in the deleted scenes, the damage done by the Kelvin allowed the Klingons to capture them. Why didn’t the Klingons capitalize on their advantage? How did Nero and co. recapture the Narada?

I could continue: the destruction of Vulcan done (apparently) only for shock value; Sulu’s mishandling of the helm for comedic effect, ignorance of the lingo (Starfleet is the peace keeping armada, the Federation is the political authority over it; and it’s called a starbase, not a Starfleet base), Kirk, Spock (classic and new), and McCoy coincidentally being in the right places (starfleet academy, the ice planet, etc.) at the right times and so forth and so on…

Here’s some free advice to the production team. Go back the memory-alpha.org website, amongst others, and do real research this time. Then go out, and buy the blu ray sets of TOS and watch them. Get a decent feel for the characters. Next come up with a really compelling story that doesn’t just appeal to the adrenaline/cheap thrill junkies. Put some real thought into it. Who knows, if you keep it up you just might earn some real acclaim, not just a large paycheck.

As for some the few things that I did like: The music. Not Mr. Giacchino’s best effort, and nowhere near Goldsmith’s or Horner’s contributions to the series, that’s not a disparagement as few can approach them, but still listenable. As loath as I am to give them anymore of my money, I did plunk down for the CD.

The special effects were competently done, though in an era were special effects are common place, they didn’t stand out.

One personal thing: although I disagree with the Enterprise being built on the ground, I did like the scenes of the farmlands with the large Vehicle Assembly Buildings in the background. I grew up in a farming community, and during the long hot summers, I would always imagine large futuristic buildings in the distance, interspersed amongst the green fields (don’t ask me why, I just did). I didn’t like the Nokia product placement, the pop song, or the classic car chase scene (I presume the canyon was an excavation for a future VAB, and not a natural feature) (as an aside, why is that when someone in the future always looks back to the past, they always seem to be fixated on 20th century? I was just there, and, culturally, it wasn’t that good.), but I did like the farmlands and futuristic buildings, so thanks for that one.

And that’s all for now.

2. The comic came after the film, not before. The comic was intended for pea brains that can't connect dots themselves and need everything spelled out for them like a fifth grader.

3. The drama isn't rushed at all significant events are merely painted in broad strokes two hours isn't enough time to meet Gary Mitchell, Finnegan, Ruth, Areel Shaw, Janice Lester etc etc ad nauseum.

4. Kirk behaved as his father did - with valor, honor, saving the ship, the Captain, and the planet Earth, the Enterprise was Starfleets thank you, what else needs to be said. Scotty wasn't comic relief, he moved the plot forward with transwarp beaming. Scotty was always a comical character, not to be confused with comic relief.

5. Nero was irrational, why would you expect him to behave rationally? He was vengeance mad, that was his motive and purpose.

6. The rest is arbitrary hyperbolic rhetoric, conjecture, and personal opinion.

"Did you need 20 minutes of Kirk and Winnona staring at each other over a glass of wine talking about how much they love each other?"

Ha!, no nothing that cornball. Not sure how the scene could have been written, but the 5 or 10 minutes that they were on didn't do much for me on an emotional level. So instead of eliciting a "Oh no, Kirk's dad just died!, I was just sort of "Kirk's dad just died, well that's too bad." The scene left me unmoved and unconvinced. A noble way to go, just not effectively done. I guess I was too busy squinting from all of the lens flares.

1. Because a complete reboot shits on the legacy of 40 years that has gone before, the intention of the film was to honor not smear Trek legacy.

I disagree, I see no dishonor in the starting fresh. It allows Classic Trek Fans to enjoy the material that came before, and allows for the creation of new fans.

2. The comic came after the film, not before. The comic was intended for pea brains that can't connect dots themselves and need everything spelled out for them like a fifth grader.

According to memory-alpha, the comic (Countdown) was published in January, and was marketed as a prequel. I haven't read the thing, just the synopsis, but it would seem to further develop the Nero character. In the movie, he comes off as more of a force of nature, than a flesh and (green) blood person. If you were referring to the chronology of the story, then yes, it took place after Trek XI, in the 24th century. :-) And I'm not sure to which pea brains you refer to. :-)

3. The drama isn't rushed at all significant events are merely painted in broad strokes two hours isn't enough time to meet Gary Mitchell, Finnegan, Ruth, Areel Shaw, Janice Lester etc etc ad nauseum.

I have a problem with broad strokes. A lot of details get left out. A movie may be composed of a series of snapshots, but the narrative shouldn't be. As for Mitchell, et. al., I guess we'll never meet them (in this universe).

4. Kirk behaved as his father did - with valor, honor, saving the ship, the Captain, and the planet Earth, the Enterprise was Starfleets thank you, what else needs to be said. Scotty wasn't comic relief, he moved the plot forward with transwarp beaming. Scotty was always a comical character, not to be confused with comic relief.

I'm saying command is a little too early at this point, and quite unlikely. As for Scotty, he was not the ship's clown. You dishonor him, sir.

5. Nero was irrational, why would you expect him to behave rationally? He was vengeance mad, that was his motive and purpose.

And no one else in his crew was sane? Unlikely.

6. The rest is arbitrary hyperbolic rhetoric, conjecture, and personal opinion.

You do know that you are on Aint It Cool News? That's all anyone has posted since I started to read the site (12 years now). That being said, and while I don't know you, I am confident that my opinion is at least as valid as yours.

Having established all the key pieces in the last movie, I expect the next one to pace things at below breakneck speed.

4. Kirk behaved as his father did - with valor, honor, saving the ship, the Captain, and the planet Earth, the Enterprise was Starfleets thank you, what else needs to be said. Scotty wasn't comic relief, he moved the plot forward with transwarp beaming. Scotty was always a comical character, not to be confused with comic relief.

Speaking of equations, why were the Vulcan school children being taught in English? Some sort of visual Universal translator used for the benefit of the audience? In made a neat scene look cheap.

Well, we can only hope for the best.

Thanks for the constructive feedback, you're one of the few civil people around here.

Maybe Orci/Kurtzman can take things a step further and have some unhappy farmers eradicate the Klingon Empire! Won't that be cool?!

That being said, the problems from the new movie do need to be addressed when they begin to make the next movie. You can forgive some mistakes seeing as it is was a reboot by people who have little knowledge of Trek, but they only get a pass this once, and even so, it doesn't excuse everything. Regardless, I am looking forward to the next movie, hope they can build on what they established in the first one.

You can't out Ricardo the original, so ditch the Spanish actor. Get someone of the appropriate ethnic background (Punjabi/Sikh). They can keep the Spanish accent if desired.

This will out-StarWars Star Wars. Khan has the potential for Darth Vader, Dr. Doom, etc. in him, go all the way with that. In the next film or two, they could show him going insane in a thirst for more power and immortality as the earth/human/terran empire gobbles up more star systems.

Don't have Kirk yell 'Khaaan!', have Khan yell 'Kiiiiirk!' somewhere in there (being abandoned on a planet works... they did it in the first movie).

The crew needs to bond and carry the film by having the chemistry of the TOS actors. We need to see Spock taken down a notch and Kirk use his brain more and the darker side of his emotions.

I particulary like the ideas of contest of species, him winning against the enemies of humanity (isn't that just like a megalomaniac - "Give me absolute power and I'll take care of you and protect you) and matching wits with Spock.

Keep Johnny in mind and let your inspiration flow from that.

Plus Quinto could really pull off a mind meld with a piece of igneous stone.

There's no reason to assume it's been destroyed. It's merely inaccessible from the new one. Both exist, but you cannot ever return to the old one from the new.

"You Dark Knight worshipers really are the epitome of hypocrisy."

Nobody's perfect, but that's overstating it a bit.

"Everything your bashing Abrams for Nolan has already done."

Would you care to elaborate?

"The only thing that overrated cocksucker did was make a darker Batman. He did nothing original."

I disagree, Nolan has a track record of delivering well executed, well conceived movies. I, for one, didn't bestow respect onto him. He's bloody well earned it. If there is any replication of basic themes, plot elements, or the like in his films, well, there is very little new under the sun. Good vs. Evil, Boy meets Girl, Everyman triumphs over adversity, etc. are some of the bases of stories that are as old as time. Acknowledgement of the limitations of human experience is not hypocrisy. Nor is the equal application of high standards to all films. Standards that Mr. Nolan has consistently met, but Trek XI did not.