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So I Was Watching Dollhouse By Myself Then
by Dave I
Oct 24th, 2009
02:12:16 PM
Crap. Too good of a show for nobody to be watching.
Obama sucks
by GeorgieBoy
Oct 24th, 2009
02:15:06 PM
He's done more to ruin the U.S. in 10 months than all past presidents combined. What a disaster.
Sad
by CmdX
Oct 24th, 2009
02:15:50 PM
This episode of Dollhouse was probably the best of all the episodes that have made it to air
So why isn't this over in Coaxial?
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
02:16:47 PM
I like the reports, but why is it in the main Cool News section?
People actually watch TV these days?
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
Oct 24th, 2009
02:17:42 PM
Didn't see that coming.
GeorgieBoy
by kwisatzhaderach
Oct 24th, 2009
02:17:44 PM
You're George W. Bush, right?
*Sigh*, GeorgieBoy, just *sigh*.
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
02:18:24 PM
All the past presidents combined? All of them? Every single mistake and war and economic collapse and fraud and illegal activities and murder and genocide?
ouch...
by RaveX
Oct 24th, 2009
02:19:07 PM
so it turns out there are more people in Croatia downloading Dollhouse then there are in USA watching it normally?
Dollhouse can't even beat Leno....
by jaysin420
Oct 24th, 2009
02:23:42 PM
while Smallville matches its season high.
Seriously, GeorgieBoy?
by NinjaRap
Oct 24th, 2009
02:24:35 PM
So let's look at what he's done: He's successfully pulled out of Iraq instead of a small "policing" military presence. He's broadened the range of controversial stem cell research. He's opened up talks with our enemies and started communicating and negotiating with countries that once despised us. In the process, he's managed to get imprisoned American journalists in both Iran and North Korea freed from months of captivity. He's worked to reduce nuclear arms both domesticially and internationally. Now, you're entitled to your opinion. But if that's ruining the country, then I want to see this country get ruined to hell and back, because it's nothing but fucking awesome.
Dollhouse doesn't have the advertising of Leno.
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
02:25:11 PM
Or even Smallville. It's that non-existent.
Well, we're not out of Iraq yet.
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
02:27:57 PM
So let's not use the word "successfully" just yet. We'll see next year when the plan goes down. But otherwise, I agree with your list of accomplishments, a list that isn't even the full thing.
GeorgieBoy
by Hercules
Oct 24th, 2009
02:28:46 PM
My 401k has doubled in the last 10 months. Hail to the chief I say!
If you have to ask "Or did it?"...
by StarWarsRedux
Oct 24th, 2009
02:33:04 PM
...chances are, it didn't.
Dollhouse shall fall
by Alientoast
Oct 24th, 2009
02:39:28 PM
That's what it gets for killing T:TSCC.
Dollhouse is fucked.
by V'Shael
Oct 24th, 2009
03:03:02 PM
Translation of Ninjarap's post.
by Jayemel
Oct 24th, 2009
03:15:11 PM
Obama has: 1. Moved the location of troops from Iraq to Afghanistan. 2. Gotten the government further involved in something it has no business in, scientific research. 3. Talked a whole lot to a whole bunch of people. (What Ninjarap neglected to mention is that under Obama the government has grown in size by $800 billion such that Pelosi can say that the Democrats health care proposal is "just" $900 billion.)
Dollhouse and Herc
by Djamdjean
Oct 24th, 2009
03:19:00 PM
Geez, it's pathetic to have Herc peddling for any morsel of hope. Get over it, the show sucks.
Iran
by tgmee
Oct 24th, 2009
03:21:15 PM
I thought the hikers were still in captivity. Did I miss something?
"Gotten the government further ...
by Hercules
Oct 24th, 2009
03:25:17 PM
... involved in something it has no business in, scientific research."

Correct! But are you talking about when Obama greenlighted the Manhattan Project or when he founded NASA?

In any case, Jayemel has the right idea. Keep the government out of science! It only leads to a bunch of fucking discoveries!

how can shit like smallville and ugly betty
by vamenza
Oct 24th, 2009
03:30:43 PM
rate better than dollhouse? shitty audiences know jack all about quality.
GeorgieBoy is obviously an IDIOT
by mistergreen
Oct 24th, 2009
03:37:14 PM
and should be shipped out of the country to where ever he came from.
Oh great, a political discussion
by A-COD
Oct 24th, 2009
03:38:44 PM
Can't we stick to complaining about how nobody watches Dollhouse? The only political discussion that belongs on AICN is a constant reminder that Al Gore's wife is the reason there are Adult warning labels on CDs. Despite Ms Gore's awesome parenting, her own son Al Gore the third still became of drug addict. Oh well, at least he couldn't buy Ice T albums until he was 18, if he could have I'm sure Al Jr would have been addicted to Crack instead of perscription painkillers. Hey Big Al, you can detect the slight rise of Co2 in the earth's atmosphere over the last 1000 years but you missed the scent of weed coming from Jr's bedroom? What's up with that?
Uh, Hercules, I have one word for you regarding science and gove
by Jayemel
Oct 24th, 2009
03:43:05 PM
Miranda.
Ha! I was right!
by Jaydog
Oct 24th, 2009
03:43:22 PM
Smallville killed Dollhouse, lol. Even though the DH is on the shelf for the next month, and canceled after its episode burn-off I'm sure Herc will still find away to create 10 talkbacks for it anyway, lol. -J.
vamenza, audiences DO know about DOLLHOUSE's quality
by SpyGuy
Oct 24th, 2009
03:46:51 PM
That's why DOLLHOUSE's ratings are in the crapper. Last night's episode was the first one in a good while that approached the level of interesting and that's mostly because Eliza Dushku wasn't the focus.
law and order
by eaze
Oct 24th, 2009
03:53:03 PM
is bein totally screwed by nbc!sisto and anderson are the best duo since orbach and noth!it's a shame no one is watching.and georgie boy-NO president screwed this country more than bush-obama has to clean up his mess b4 he can get to his own shit1MOVE if u don't like it asshole
Hey look, Law & Order is finally seeing some improvement
by JT Kirk
Oct 24th, 2009
03:53:04 PM
Looks like all the shows that got moved into deathslots are finally getting audiences to find them again. Except Dollhouse, sorry folks but that shit is doomed, it's being Fox'd. But L&O, Smallville, and Medium are all picking up steam. How awesome is it that Leno is barely beating Psych tho'? One is on a tiny cabler and the other is on a broadcast net.

Christ were SGU and Sanctuary's numbers bad though. I can't say I'm surprised about SGU, that shit feels like such a downer, but damn, nobody is watching Sanctuary, how can Siffy afford to keep it on the air?

Ready to Never See DOLLHOUSE Again?
by ThusSpakeSpymunk
Oct 24th, 2009
03:54:36 PM
Mark my words. It will NOT appear again after the hiatus on Fox's schedule. Fox isn't stupid. They know these are unacceptable ratings. By then, of course, everyone will have forgotten it. Wait, what were we talking about again? Some show? As Homer said, in the same voice Homer uses: "Cancelled!"
Hello DVD box set
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 24th, 2009
04:00:55 PM
i'd rather hear
by Ryanbraun14
Oct 24th, 2009
04:22:23 PM
i'd rather read herc write a couple of sentances about his take on the ratings of smallville than read how ugly betty is falling every week. i get it, ugly better is falling and is done. there's not a story there. there is a story about smallville, but it seems herc goes out of his way to ignore shows that people would rather talk about on these friday ratings talkbacks instead of dollhouse. the only dollhouse posts these days are related to how it sucks, how its doing poorly, and herc's bias for it.

but whatever, what i REALLY want to know is aintitcool's 401k and insurance policies... that would interest me. Herc--is this your only job? that's another thing i REALLY want to know.
Where's LOST? TV sucks right now.
by vini77
Oct 24th, 2009
05:03:28 PM
For fucks sake. If House wasn't on I wouldn't even bother turning my TV on.
Ryanbraun14
by Hercules
Oct 24th, 2009
05:14:18 PM
I feel I'm on record about smallville, but here's the scoop if you missed it:

flat from last week
up two tenths from its premiere
way down from last season
the lowest-rated CW show not named Melrose Place
enjoy it while you got it

if you believe I think Dollhouse vastly superior to Smallville, you believe correctly.

If you expect my bias to evaporate, you might think about getting your TV news from one of the millions of unbiased sites on this big old thing we call the World Wide Web. I've been bringing tremendous bias to this column for a decade now and don't anticipate altering the strategy.

what else? My insurance is not throught aintitcool, my Obama-engorged 401k is not through aintitcool, and this is not my only job. thanks for playing! go horns!

Herc I like your Dollhouse talkbacks
by theGoldbergV
Oct 24th, 2009
05:23:05 PM
shameless aren't I? Don't care. Dollhouse is good and Smallvile is really not. Maybe when they had the Lex Luthor guy who could act but not for years.
Happy Halloween, Lockes!
by American Mythos
Oct 24th, 2009
06:00:30 PM
But isn't your costume a little outdated? http://tinyurl.com/bqnsvr
American Mythos
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 24th, 2009
06:01:45 PM
Um, what the fuck. Douche bag.
Say what you will about the President
by American Mythos
Oct 24th, 2009
06:05:48 PM
but damn the First Lady knows how to work a hula hoop.
9th season smallville killing dollhouse..hahaha
by iownyou
Oct 24th, 2009
06:25:19 PM
the people have spoken
Psst. Herc.
by CatVutt
Oct 24th, 2009
06:29:57 PM
Those are the Friday overnights, not the Thursday.
Keep in mind these ratings represent under half the TV audience.
by Flim Springfield
Oct 24th, 2009
06:38:34 PM
The average viewer age is 50.
Jesus, poor Dollhouse.
by dance4days
Oct 24th, 2009
06:39:51 PM
I'm hoping these numbers are just a product of its awful, awful lead-in. (Seriously, sitcoms? What the fuck were the people at Fox smoking when they thought that was a good idea?) Perhaps when it's in the 8pm time slot in December it'll fare better? I really, *really* hope it does, because this show seems to have finally found its stride this season, as evidenced by last night's amazing episode.
Michelle: "He beat me"
by TakingScorpiosCalls
Oct 24th, 2009
06:48:00 PM
You heard it Barry keeps her in check.
Herc, the next Dollhouse is next week...
by nalapou
Oct 24th, 2009
06:52:31 PM
Please don't make even less people watch this show by telling them it's not on, lol. They're pulling it from November, but next week is still October 30th. Hopefully I'm wrong because splitting up a 2-parter by a month seems like a hopelessly idiotic idea, but according to fox.com/schedule... I am correct.
nalapou
by dance4days
Oct 24th, 2009
06:58:54 PM
Sadly, Fox.com's schedule is wrong. Here's a promo for the next episode(s) that ran after last night's episode: http://tinyurl.com/yjmp7ew
Yea senior citizens love jay leno for some reason
by supercowbell5THECOWBELLHASSPOKEN
Oct 24th, 2009
07:03:47 PM
Maybe because their close to death and need some safe "humor" that won't shock them and give them a heart attack.
dance4days
by nalapou
Oct 24th, 2009
07:08:21 PM
Thanks, I'm Canadian and we don't get post episode promos apparently... my bad. I take this as good news though, splitting up a 2 parter for a show like this would be FOX's dumbest move since canceling Arrested Development.
Medium's a great show
by jimmy_009
Oct 24th, 2009
07:27:38 PM
Glad to see it doing well. Very creative writing most episodes.
Yes, but Springfield...
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
07:39:51 PM
...advertisers, for the most part, don't give a shit about anybody over 49. Overall ratings are virtually meaningless.
If advertisers don't care about people 50+ years old
by johnnyangel
Oct 24th, 2009
07:47:00 PM
then why are there so many ads for Lipitor and Viagra?
The problem with Dollhouse is..
by torpor_haze
Oct 24th, 2009
07:47:34 PM
that they're only starting to put the pieces together for a big pay-off. Unfortunately patience is not not a virtue in modern economics.
Advertisers care a LOT about 49+. They're the ones still watchin
by Flim Springfield
Oct 24th, 2009
07:49:23 PM
The baby boomers are a huge demographic, and unlike younger groups, aren't spending most of their time on the internet.
oh and Fox..
by torpor_haze
Oct 24th, 2009
07:50:38 PM
needs to allow for reruns of Dollhouse on a cable channel. A Dollhouse marathon might be able to bring in some bigger numbers.
More to the point: NBC didn't keep Leno for the 18-49 crowd.
by Flim Springfield
Oct 24th, 2009
07:50:51 PM
oh God I just noticed new Harry animation...
by torpor_haze
Oct 24th, 2009
07:53:14 PM
that's an image I could have done without
fox keep shitting on dollhouse
by vamenza
Oct 24th, 2009
07:57:35 PM
where's the damn promos?
The erectile ads are but a small percentage of the ads.
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
08:04:42 PM
Seriously, watch two hours of ads and gauge how much is geared toward 50+ and how much is aimed at lower numbers.

Believe me, NBC did not keep Leno for the old people, because even with them it's still getting shit. Plain and simple, they didn't want him jumping ship. And they're keeping him on now to save face. He's a disaster ratings-wise whether it's 18-49 or 50+.

smallville prob will get tenth season
by vamenza
Oct 24th, 2009
08:09:18 PM
high ratings for the network, bigger budgets and they're adding a fuckload of new cast in the justice society movie ep, like perry white and amanda waller, so i guess congrats to the showmakers, whatever they are doing. shame dollhouse doesn't air on cw, after smallville
I watch both Smallville and Dollhouse. Both
by Mr_Satan
Oct 24th, 2009
08:17:27 PM
Were excellent on Friday. It looks like they are giving all their characters eh some character. Erica Durance is always hot, and the Oliver Queen story is really jumping. It pissess me off that they are falling in to the comic book trap of not knowing how to deal with Clark/Superman duality though. And Dollhouse that was just beautifully written and even better acted. People need to watch it. Sierra never felt right in the Dollhouse and we got to see why. All you Dollhouse detractors need to watch that episode and you'll come back on board the show.
Move Dollhouse to SciFi oops SyFy(lame)
by Mr_Satan
Oct 24th, 2009
08:20:58 PM
That's a retarded name change if ever there was one. Dollhouse is what science fiction is supposed to be. It makes you think about what makes us who we are. And bring back The 4400. That show was 12 times better than Heroes.
Keep the political talk coming
by VitaminZ
Oct 24th, 2009
08:42:24 PM
Would love to hear Hercules explain how Obama "engorged" his 401k and if Obama is equally responsible for the projected federal deficits these next few years and falling value of the dollar (and how). And maybe a little something about how that all ties together.
Nobody seemed to have problems with federal deficit...
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
08:44:55 PM
...when all the money went to W's two wars. And then people complain about poorly functioning social works while having the gall to oppose paying more taxes.
But yes, Dollhouse was good.
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
08:48:26 PM
And as long as Smallville turns a profit through syndication and DVDs, as well as keep the Superman brand alive, it's getting a tenth season.
12 times better than Heroes? WOW
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 24th, 2009
08:53:28 PM
Federal Deficit
by SK229
Oct 24th, 2009
08:59:22 PM
I think nobody had a problem when it looked like things could continue as they always had... but where is the point where all of this spending has to stop? It's not a republican/democrat issue, it's whether or not this kind of spending is sustainable. And I believe that deficit spending now is based upon income tax projections that will prove to be the real undoing of our economy. Whether you support Obama or not doesn't really matter, I just want someone to explain to me, who supports this kind of spending, how it is sustainable.

To me, it doesn't matter which party is in power, it's clear neither understand how the average american lives and that they don't give a shit how they piss away our money. At what point do they stop themselves and say, "Maybe we should spend the taxes we collect more effectively and see where the waste is, rather than continually adding programs and government jobs and increasing taxes." Is that too much to ask?

Sarcasm Locke? Really? That's Beneath You
by Mr_Satan
Oct 24th, 2009
09:10:10 PM
Wait never mind. Keep it coming. We all know Heroes hasn't been good in the past seasons. But I'm talking season 1 before the let down of the finale.
Should Have Rebooted DollHouse
by FreeBeer
Oct 24th, 2009
09:12:32 PM
God I hate saying the word rebooted it sickens me but they should have just continued the story of Epitaph One's post apocalyptic survivors and made that the focus of the series, maybe having a few more flash backs to the present day.
More on the federal deficit
by VitaminZ
Oct 24th, 2009
09:12:37 PM
I think A LOT of people had a problem with it during W's terms. His approval numbers didn't hit the 30's because everyone became liberal; part of the reason they were low was because so many conservatives weren't on board with the out of control spending. The federal government's debt is unsustainable, and that's *before* you factor in the tens of trillions we'll owe for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. It'd be nice if there were some adults in Washington, D.C. to take on these problems, but both parties are a joke and the average American doesn't have the attention span to take the time to understand these problems.
USA Network YOU SCREWED US
by Mr_Satan
Oct 24th, 2009
09:13:26 PM
Taking off the 4400 for what nothing. I only watch Psych and Burn Notice on your channel now. And that's true of most people I know. You really screwed the pooch there.
Dollhouse just isn't that good
by The Pelti
Oct 24th, 2009
09:16:03 PM
Look, I love Joss Whedon as much as the next geek, greatly enjoyed Buffy and Angel, and Firefly is one of my favorite shows of all time. Dollhouse though greatly struggles with pacing, tone, and characterization. Dushku just isn't a talented enough actress to pull off the concept, she bounces between pouty/strongwilled/hot and pouty/confused/dear-in-the-hea dlights. Too much of the staging and dialogue plays like a watered down Mad Men, that psuedo-theatrical BS where characters spout neatly packaged soliloquies to the other characters in the room. The beauty of previous Whedon shows were that the characters felt real despite the extraordinary circumstances, they interacted with others in a much more natural way. While some would say the Whedon banter was too rapid fire or cute to be real, it still flowed in a convincing way. In dollhouse, it just seems like everybody is waiting for their mark to deliver their self contained lines. The other problem is that they're struggling to expand beyond the psychological rape-fantasy aspect of the concept. I have a friend who gets violent when talking about it because she can't get past that. As much as they try to say theres more to Dollhouse than brainwashed hookers, they're having trouble demonstrating that. Its shown flashes of other things, but really, Joss needs to step it up. Really though, so much of TV these days is the same recycled, procedural cop/lawyer/doctor garbage, it's a wonder any new concepts make it. There are pretty much only 2 shows I care about on network TV this fall, and Dollhouse isn't one of them.
Next Medium is an homage to Night of the Living Dead!
by Raymar
Oct 24th, 2009
09:20:19 PM
It looks like its gonna be awesome.
Why the politics
by Mr_Satan
Oct 24th, 2009
09:22:26 PM
Can we not just hate both Republicans and Democrats together for fucking us over. That's why I'm an independent. They all suck And I voted for Obama. But he's doing what I told all my Republican co-workers that he's going to do nothing so as to not screw over the next Black guy who wants to be president. And that's what he's done in essence nothing. We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan and maybe we go to Iran next. Bush fucked us and then tagged out to the next fucker. I'm sick of both sides. We should get all new people in. Someone with out an agenda for making cash. And the senators and congressman should only be part time. These fucks need real jobs through out the rest of the year. That way they can feel how we feel when something they do screws us over.
Dollhouse's problem is ingrained in its DNA
by Adelai Niska
Oct 24th, 2009
09:35:12 PM
The concept of the show PLUS the weekly set-up, combined, are too complex for new viewers to drop into, but not cool enough for people to stick around despite their confusion. A show like House, or even Medium, has a simple premise so people can just catch 3/4 of an episode and get it. A show like Lost or Dexter has ongoing stories but the shows are engaging enough to make people stop channel surfing.

Dollhouse's contantly changing scenarios are tough for new viewers (I'm NOT calling anyone dumb, just saying the show's not a 1 sentence desciption.) At the same time, "Echo mothers a rich guy's baby" is NOT the kind of premise that'll make people put the down the remote. The show fails because unlike the other Whedon shows, you can't just turn it on one week and get into it.

PS I do really like Dollhouse
by Adelai Niska
Oct 24th, 2009
09:35:44 PM
SK229, we can reallocate our tax money...
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
09:49:13 PM
...to more stuff we care about in a personal manner. It's tax-deductible charities, and it's something that should be more widespread and less complicated. You worry about the American school system? Do something about it. You worry about etcetcetc. But sometimes capitalism makes it tough. There are answers out there, but I fear people just don't want to hear it.
Needs Grace Park and Haley Berry as Dolls
by kbarber29
Oct 24th, 2009
10:21:31 PM
"(SMALLVILLE is) the lowest-rated CW show not named Melrose Plac
by SpyGuy
Oct 24th, 2009
10:31:53 PM
Um...Herc? Then what network is airing that wacky AMERICA'S NEXT TOP MODEL show you have listed farther down from SMALLVILLE at the bottom of your list?
SpyGuy, that's the Friday rerun of Top Model.
by Lenny Nero
Oct 24th, 2009
10:33:38 PM
The Wednesday airing, the original, does better.
Lenny Nero: Ah, okay. Apologies then.
by SpyGuy
Oct 24th, 2009
10:36:19 PM
Nothing to see here...Move along...
Herc should post the Dollhouse numbers really big
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 24th, 2009
10:49:57 PM
and every other show in a tiny font
Dollhouse
by Toonol
Oct 24th, 2009
11:12:40 PM
I'll watch it on Hulu this weekend. One of the drawbacks of a show that appeals to a relatively intelligent and net-savy audience; it carries with it a self-inflicted ratings penalty.

(Bailout has been ineffectual and more expensive than the Iraq war, which was already thoroughly won when Obama took office.)

Re: GeorgieBoy
by jbs9200
Oct 24th, 2009
11:26:56 PM
Remember any criticism of Obama is an act of "straight up" racism.

Just ask Jimmy Carter.

herc, to be fair
by vamenza
Oct 24th, 2009
11:34:47 PM
you are not really telling the truth. tvbythenumbers has smallville ranked 4th place this week on cw, in both viewers and rating. hollywood reporter said ratings 18-49 don't matter to cw, their ad slots are sold based on total viewers. dollhouse is a waste of my energy, its unpopularity depresses me too much.
Re: Deficit
by jbs9200
Oct 24th, 2009
11:39:58 PM
Under Obama the deficit has quadrupled. http://tinyurl.com/c3mpk4

So, by trying to blame it on Bush you are either intellectually dishonest or stupid.

Of course, I must support this, because criticism of Obaba is an act of "straight up" racism. Or so Chris Matthews and Maureen Dowd tell me.

The Federal Deficit
by Rob0729
Oct 24th, 2009
11:48:08 PM
Let's face it. This has been a problem for decades with no President or Congress doing anything significant to curb spending to fix it. Even when Bill Clinton delivered a balanced budget, it was more because of tax revenue from capital gains of a fake dotcom stock market and the out of whack salaries in the technology sector than any government cutbacks.

The next time the Democrat or Republican party do more than pay lipservice to reigning in the debt, it will be the first, Neither party understands the term "Fiscal Responsibility". Hence why I became an Independent long ago.
Why is Herc bragging that his 401K is up to $12:00.
by DrMorbius
Oct 24th, 2009
11:48:37 PM
Dollhouse is just too cerebral
by Zedul
Oct 24th, 2009
11:49:25 PM
For all the tiny brains in the world. It's also too good for it's medium. So was Star Trek TOS So was Cheers for the first two years (but NBC believed in it) So was Kolchak: The Night Stalker So was Firefly So was Twin Peaks It has been thus with any number of shows that offer something new or disturbing or are just plain quirky. The best shows usually only last a season or two... and then years later spawn ripoff after ripoff.
jbs9200
by Rob0729
Oct 24th, 2009
11:52:33 PM
I think you are confusing the deficit and deficit spending. The deficit hasn't quadrupled. Deficit spending has grown at an exponential rate under Obama, although I am not sure it has quadrupled.
Zedul
by Rob0729
Oct 25th, 2009
12:03:23 AM
I hate this argument. I like the Dollhouse, but I don't it any more cerebal than many shows that do far better in the ratings (Fringe for example at least before they moved it to Thursday and killed the ratings or Lost). Although I like the Dollhouse, I find it a very uneven show and several episodes outright sucked especially early in the first season.

I think it is a cop out to blame a show's poor ratings of a show because the audience is too stupid to understand it. There are a lot of smart people I know who have watched this show and just didn't care for it.

BTW, season 1 ratings of Twin Peaks were big. The two hour pilot was the highest rated movie on TV that year and the first one hour episode the following week was the highest ratings ABC got in four years. The ratings dropped off the face of the earth when they solved the Laura Palmer murder and seemed to go rudderless after that especially since David Lynch and Mike Frost became less involved in the show.
If Dollhouse is cancelled
by SifoDyasJr.
Oct 25th, 2009
12:20:36 AM
the Joss should totally use the Dr. Horrible model on it to keep it going. Sell episodes on iTunes. Put out DVD's. Do short 8 episode seasons. Fact #1: the audience for these types of shows has grown. Fact #2: network television is dying rapidly (aka committing suicide). It's time for the new model of scifi television to emerge (and it's not spelled with a 'y') and Mr. Whedon is the man who can make it happen.
Dollhouse MUST ditch Eliza Dushku.
by Pants_McCracky
Oct 25th, 2009
01:23:42 AM
I don't think it's a coincidence that the strongest, most compelling Dollhouse episodes to date have been the ones where Echo is either sidelined or altogether absent. Look, I don't think Eliza Dushku is entirely horrible as an actress, but she's pretty much one-note...on a series based on the premise of a character who takes on wildly different personas!!! I mean, let's face it, it doesn't take a genius to see what's wrong with this picture.

I figure it's next to impossible that they'd actually ditch Echo -- isn't Dushku one of the show's producers? -- but that character played by that actress is the single biggest reason the show is tanking.
LennyNero...
by SK229
Oct 25th, 2009
01:51:10 AM
I appreciate your answer and I understand what you are saying about pitching in, but what does that answer have to do with unsustainable spending by the government? I'm not talking about us paying taxes, we are surely screwed no matter what, I'm talking about the fact that we could be very close to the tipping point where we can't even finance enough debt through the Chinese to pay off the INTEREST on the debt we've already accumulated. How does me donating to charities of my choice stop our government from going effectively broke and no longer being able to finance the deficit? In other words, if tomorrow, no foreign governments want to invest in the dollar because they doubt our long-term ability to pay back our debts, then what? That's a TRILLION DOLLARS of money that we need and do not have. Sure, we can print money to close the gap, but then that renders the rest of the money in circulation pretty much worthless, doesn't it? It also considerably weakens the world's view of the U.S. as an economic powerhouse.

I'm not trying to start any kind of flame war, I've asked this before and nobody really seems to have an answer. This country seriously cannot keep spending like this... I think that we are headed for the end of the dollar or the United States or even worse, both. I just don't see how that outcome is not inevitable within about a decade or so. I actually believe that China wants us to keep spending like this, knowing that it is continually weakening our position while simultaneously we send real manufacturing jobs and plants overseas and all of the real wealth in this country is divided up between people who do nothing more than move money around. But maybe I'm completely wrong and this can go on forever... I hope that's true.

The way people hate Obama doesn't bode well for Cory Booker
by Mr. Profit
Oct 25th, 2009
03:05:36 AM
And his shot at the presidency in 2016. It's a shame too. Because he really works for what's best for Newark, instead of pandering to whichever side is popular. He really should have run for Governor. But I understand why he didn't because of Corzine still there. Ah well.
Oh and I can't tolerate Dushku's acting...
by Mr. Profit
Oct 25th, 2009
03:12:34 AM
Part of the reason why I gave Dollhouse a 3 episode chance until I got bored and moved on. Gellar is the HBIC of the "Whedonverse". The haters know it to be true. But this show is also tanking because Whedon really pulled the premise out of his ass during a lunch meeting, and it wasn't a really fully fleshed out idea that was born organically. And the idea was also forcing one note Dushku in the lead.

On an unrelated note, I wish the chick who played Vazquez in "Aliens" would sue Dusku and Michelle Rodriguez for biting off of her acting style.

Herc, I'll be honest
by JT Kirk
Oct 25th, 2009
04:10:36 AM
There is far too little "cool news" in Coax under your watch the last few years than there should be. You seem to hate TV and don't give a shit about any TV that is geek-centric, which makes it a bummer to look at the right column anymore. I'm not trying to take potshots, just explain why there are so many others who are doing so. Writing about the ratings and why Leno sucks isn't anyone's definition of Cool News, as It definitely Ain't.
Though to be clear
by JT Kirk
Oct 25th, 2009
04:11:22 AM
Leno does suck. When it's not soft humor, it's cheap.
Mr. Profit
by American Mythos
Oct 25th, 2009
04:45:49 AM
People hate every politician, but last I checked, Obama's approval rating is at 56 percent, remarkable given the circumstances. And trust me, if you've seen enough Cory Booker AND Obama, people will see the contrasting personalities: Booker is fast talking and enthusiastic, while Obama is more measured and stoic. I don't think, regardless of whether Obama's young administration ends up being successful in the long run, that people will confuse the two. Black people aren't just clones of each other spit off an assembly line.
wow, too bad...
by hogo
Oct 25th, 2009
05:25:02 AM
This dollhouse was really good, even more well crafted than epitaph 1 =(
Smallville is soooooo good this season!
by Drsambeckett1984
Oct 25th, 2009
06:04:34 AM
And it has had more seasons than pretty much anything else, apart from SG1, but as usual Herc disregards it with casual whimsy because he doesn't like it. Cannot wait to see the JSA two parter!
Herc, its called Stargate Universe or SGU or SGU-stargate unive
by DioxholsterReturns
Oct 25th, 2009
06:22:34 AM
NEVER EVER STARGATE SGU!!!! i know you write it that way to satisfy your need to mock its humble beginnings--to you at least. FUCK BSG and YOUR PATHETIC DOLLHOUSE!!!
and SGU is on par with smallville in terms of ratings
by DioxholsterReturns
Oct 25th, 2009
06:26:46 AM
but its far superior in quality of course. dollhouse will be demolished by SGU, youll see.
Herc, What #'s Does Dolhouse Need to Pull...
by AngrySnowMonkey
Oct 25th, 2009
07:13:12 AM
In your estimation, what does Dollhouse need to pull to make an argument for life? Current #'s are abysmal.
SGU has higher averages
by TheSecondQuest
Oct 25th, 2009
07:54:03 AM
SGU's premiere had a 1.7 average household rating, the second episode had 1.8 and the 3rd is a 1.5 or 1.6.
doomedhouse
by loonatic
Oct 25th, 2009
08:28:35 AM
finally a good dollhouse episode! now i'm not entirely sure if it's actually good or just surprised that it's much better than the crappy episodes that came before. also .. dollhouse clientele don't seem to be getting their money's worth. what's this ... the 3rd doll-gone-bad ep this season?
People are still defending Smallville?
by rbatty024
Oct 25th, 2009
08:33:25 AM
Let's see: Dollhouse is an intriguing show that examines the dividing line between our essential selves and our experiential selves, while Smallville is Dawson's Creek for the geek crowd. I know which show I would rather have a talkback on.
The 4400 Made USA, just like Kyle XY made ABC fam
by nrn
Oct 25th, 2009
08:52:56 AM
Before the 4400 there wasn't a good broadcast show on USA period. Once 4400 started all their other shows picked up steam, I.E The Dead Zone and a few others. So when they finally get to a spot in the 4400 where they can finish it off in the next season (they created promise city), they cancel it. (There are a couple of Season 5 Books though).

Then we have ABC Family. They had no original programming since forever, movie of the week etc etc, enter Kyle XY one of the most family friendly entertaining Sci-fi shows of its time. Characters that could act, a meaningful plot etc. And what happens? They cancel it and keep on crap like Greek when Greek wouldn't have even been in existence if it wasn't for Kyle XY.

Cable networks are dumb as regular networks when it comes to cancellations.

My idea schedule for TV:
Monday:
7pm House (fox)
8pm Heroes (NBC)
9pm Flashfoward (ABC)
Tuesday:
7pm 90210 (CW)
8pm Dollhouse (FOX)
9pm Lost (ABC)
Wednesday:
7pm Royal Pains (USA)
8pm Sanctuary (SCI-FI)
9PM Vampire Diaries (CW)
Thursday: 7pm Smallville (CW)
8PM Supernatural (CW)
9PM Bones (Fox)

Friday:
7pm Medium (CBS)*
8pm Monk (USA)
9pm Psych (USA)

* on Medium to con-notate that it is the first time I have watched a show on CBS since they canceled Jericho.
My schedule if shows weren't cancelled.
by nrn
Oct 25th, 2009
09:03:16 AM
Monday:
7PM 24 (FOX)
8PM T:TSCC (FOX)
9PM Kyle XY (ABC Fam)

Tuesday:
7PM Chuck (NBC)
8PM Heroes (NBC)
9PM Journeyman (NBC)

Wednesday:
7PM Flashfoward (ABC)
8PM Lost (ABC)
9PM The 4400 (USA)

Thursday:
7PM Smallville (CW)
8PM Angel (CW)
9PM Supernatural (CW)

Friday:
7PM Dollhouse (Fox)
8PM Monk (USA)
9pm Psych (USA)

Sunday:
7PM Royal Pains (USA)
8PM Medium (CBS)
9PM The Vampire Diaries (CW)

Thats the dream team of TV right there..
Rob0729
by Zedul
Oct 25th, 2009
09:59:55 AM
How are either Lost or Fringe cerebral? One is a remake of a 1970's series called "The Fantastic Voyage" about a brain from outer space that controlled an island that moved through time and the other is pretty standard monster of the week/alien invasion show. I like and watch both because they are Sci-Fi but there isn't anything real that is relevant to our world... which is always what the very very best Sci-Fi is about. Dollhouse poses some real interesting questions. It's a little bit Blade Runner, a little bit Dark City... and it asks questions about the very essence of what "identity" is. It's actually dealing in what may one day very much become "real" while also addressing current issues - like how huge mega-corporations are turning us essentially into slaves with no rights. Are you missing this? Even my 65 year old mother who normally watches things like NCIS immediately picked up on these themes - and she doesn't watch the show because it's "too dark and spooky". As far as Smallville? I refuse to watch these idiots continue to shit all over the Superman mythos with this post teen emo bullshit. Another poster was right... the show is nothing but Dawson's Creek on Kryptonite.
WRT Georgieboy
by hst666
Oct 25th, 2009
10:25:03 AM
You do realize Georgieboy was simply trolling, right. He threw a political grenade and you losers who responded jumped on it. It wouldn't surprise me if he was an Obama supporter.
Zedul
by Rob0729
Oct 25th, 2009
11:12:18 AM
Both Fringe and Lost are as cerebral as the Dollhouse. Let's get real here. Both Lost and Fringe tackle a lot of interesting subjects and theories about timetravel, multiple universes, science, and the moral questions of them. Fringe in particular tackle a lot of scientific issues that deals with parallel universes including many of the issues that many scientists that actually study the topic tackle. Lost ties in a lot of mythology, science, literature, etc. that requires people to think a lot or miss a lot of the subtilies of the show.

I think you are making the Dollhouse far more cereberal than it really is. It does tackle some moral issues, but so do a lot of popular shows like the ones I stated. But they also have a lot of episodes that the biggest issue tackled is how to get Eliza Dushku in the skimpiest outfits imaginable.

Just because you want to blame Dollhouse's low ratings on the inferiority of the viewing public, doesn't mean it is true. I like all three shows and I don't find the Dollhouse any more cerebral than the other two and in fact I think they avoid many of the issues in fear of being too cerebral.
BTW
by Rob0729
Oct 25th, 2009
11:17:07 AM
Why is it neccessary that a show tackles issues about "our world" to be cerebral? The multiuniverse theory is becoming an increasingly more popular topic in the science field. Albert Einstein studied the topic covered on Fringe. Stephen Hawkings still studies those topics. They might be the two most cerebral people of the last 100 years.

I do disagree though that the Dollhous deals with things in our world. The Dollhouse is more science fiction at this point that the theory multiple universes.
Great news for Dollhouse!!
by gotilk
Oct 25th, 2009
11:51:14 AM
My local newspaper put it on the cover of it's TV Guide (and I understand it's semi-national) So yeah, great news for Dollh... wait. It's not on again for two weeks? LOL.. fail. Sometimes the luck for this man's shows seems almost like it's written for a comedy of errors.
rbatty024: People are still defending DOLLHOUSE?
by SpyGuy
Oct 25th, 2009
11:51:32 AM
Let's see: SMALLVILLE is an entertaining DC Universe series for the entire family that has grown considerably better following the departure of producers Alfred Gough and Miles Millar, while DOLLHOUSE can only manage to become interesting whenever lead actress Eliza Dushku isn't on screen in some skimpy outfit designed to appeal to undersexed nerds. I know which show I would rather have a talkback on.
Fucking right people are defending Smallville
by Drsambeckett1984
Oct 25th, 2009
01:19:48 PM
It's been on for 9 years!!!!!! Dollhouse ain't gonna reach 2!
Problem with Dollhouse is...
by MonkeyManReturns
Oct 25th, 2009
03:01:58 PM
...it's on a Friday. Move it to another night and - bang - double the ratings.
"Smallville" should get a 10th season
by My Pretty Pony
Oct 25th, 2009
03:35:33 PM
It still makes a lot of money internationally and in DVD sales. The CW moved the show to Fridays to boost their numbers on that night and because they saw an opportunity to pair a new show w/ "Supernatural" on Thursdays. SV is giving the network the best ratings they've ever received on Fridays and it was expected that the ratings would go down when it was moved to that night. A lot of people record the show instead of watching it live. So far, Season 9 has been great and the ratings have gone up in the last couple of weeks. I'm sure they'll go up even more when they have the Justice Society two-parter. Therefore, I wouldn't rule out a 10th season just yet. I believe most of the actors are already signed on for Season 10. As for "Dollhouse", I watch the show online because I've always been a fan of Joss Whedon's work, but this show just isn't cutting it. Eliza Dushku is not strong enough as the lead and the storylines are often dull or preposterous. Since FOX won't even air the show during November sweeps, I don't see any possibility for a 3rd season. They should've stuck w/ "Terminator" instead.
Multiverse...
by Zedul
Oct 25th, 2009
05:46:03 PM
So you are telling me that we are in more danger of goddamn Kang the Conqueror or some other Kirbyesque villain coming after our asses than we are of out of control CEO's? I am sorry... but apparently Dollhouse was just a bit over your head. ;)
Giving to charities instead of the government...
by Lenny Nero
Oct 25th, 2009
05:48:06 PM
....sends a message to the US government as to what we care about and how we think money should be spent. But it's not widespread enough. We would support failing industries, ones that are now being "saved" by government money, and would potentially give more jobs, create more jobs, create more self-sustaining businesses. The answer to me isn't all socialism or all capitalism, but getting the American public more involved. We won't have to borrow, we can work toward a true solution to our debt problem, but it involves both the public and the government. To me, communication is the solution. But there are no easy answers, and there isn't just ONE WAY to do things. Otherwise, it would have already been done. But we need to rise as a nation, and that takes cooperation.
NRN My points exactly
by Mr_Satan
Oct 25th, 2009
05:53:20 PM

Cable channels pull shit worse than regular nets. Like Kyle XY, I never thought to even look at ABC Family until that show appeared.

And I was only planning on watching one episode and goof on it for its stupidity. But I was surprised that it was well written and acted. Then I get invested in the characters and story and they drop it for Greek, and life of a teenage slut or some such shit. It has Molly Ringwald but in it but who cares.

So I stopped watching that channel. Now USA has barely kept my attention, after canceling the 4400 and The Dead Zone. They were on Sundays and doing well, I don't even know what they have on at that time anymore. Thanks to broadening Burn Notice from Summers to Spring, and adding more Psych, I haven't completely shunned the net. But they screwed themselves out of viewers with those cancellations. Characters welcome my ass. And I fucking hate Monk.

Zedul
by Rob0729
Oct 25th, 2009
07:11:54 PM
The study of parallel universes is real science theory that is actively being explored at universities and observatories all over the world. Some of the greatest minds this world has to offer think that there is a real chance that there are endless universes like this one with the only difference in each is one choice or action sending the universe on a different timeline than ours much like what is being covered in Fringe. Go do a Google search on parallel universes.

The act of wiping people's minds and imprinting them with other personalities is pure science fiction at this point.

As for out of control CEOs, if that is what makes Dollhouse a cerebral show. So is The Office since their office manager is out of control. Sorry, the evil CEOs and corporation is the least cerebral thing about Dollhouse in my opinion because the evil corporation is a science fiction cliche.

Fringe is based in real science (at least real science theory) which is expanded into science fiction but tries to stay within the bounds of real science theory. Dollhouse is based on a lunch brainstorming session between Joss Whedon and Eliza Dushku.
Also Fringe writers look for real Fringe science
by Rob0729
Oct 25th, 2009
07:16:26 PM
If you read any interview by anyone associated with the show who discuss the science, they will tell you that they look for articles on real, but strange science and incorporate it in the show. Obviously they twist the science at times beyond the point of reality, but it does have a real science base.
Mr_Satan
by nrn
Oct 25th, 2009
07:16:52 PM
Yes, USA Dropped the ball HORRIBLY with 4400 I watched deadzone like 4 days after it aired on DVR last season wasn't the same without his black partner :( But I watched the 4400 religiously. As well as Kyle XY, first time I heard of it I thought omg some stupid abc family bullshit, but my wife made me watch and it became one of my favorite seasonal shows. After this year it looks like the following shows I watch will be ending:

Smallville (Could stay another season IMHO its gotten way better with new show runners)
Supernatural (Sad but the end is neigh)
Dollhouse (They are just running it now to give whedonites closure, I like the show personally)
Lost (I sincerely hope a spinoff is made)
Monk (Its been a long good run, I hope Trudy's murder is solved in a well manner)
Fringe (If fox keeps it on thursdays its as good as gone.)
Bones (same)
24 (Heard this was the last season?)

This year literally is the end of an Era of TV as we knew it. Now were going to have to watch shows catered to 23 year old douche bags that like I love Money as their favorite show...
My 2 cents
by CHRISTIANBALES_BILEDUCT
Oct 25th, 2009
07:32:02 PM
Even though I'm British
Cent 1: Eliza Dushku, as hot as she may be, is a terrible actress and is killing Dollhouse, Friday's ep was so much more interesting without her being the protag.
Cent 2: Deficit spending is all we have, when we go back to boom everything gets paid back quicker, it's a positive feedback loop with multipliers. The reverse is true when we are in a recession. Also, why the Obama hate? W gets you in 2 wars, oversees the collapse of the financial system, castrates your idea of freedom and destroys your international image. OK, he promised the moon but seriously, you wanna blame someone there's your guy - Obama's just cleaning George's soiled sheets.
Now let's see if I've got paragraph breaks working...
It doesn't matter when Smallville is on...
by Triple_J_72
Oct 25th, 2009
07:43:49 PM
...I'd watch Erica Durance any time at all. Oh yes.
Yeah, The 4400 was tragically cut short
by Nasty In The Pasty
Oct 25th, 2009
10:04:07 PM
Just ONE more 13-episode season would have been enough to finish off all of the show's major subplots, but noooooooooooooooo....
Don't EVER say Obama has done nothing!
by Van Graylore
Oct 25th, 2009
10:08:28 PM
Why, he's: *dismantling the entire industrial middle class * coddling the big business bastards that outsource all of our jobs to places like India and China (to be fair, all of the last several presidents have done this) *kissing the asses of nations that hate our guts, apologizing to the same twats that killed thousands of our people by crashing commercial airliners into buildings *coddling the welfare sucks who want a free ride off of the wealthy and, much more offensive to me, the middle class who is working their balls off already *fuck that sorry liberal cunt
Why do they even have sweeps anymore?
by Rev. Slappy
Oct 25th, 2009
10:17:24 PM
Television viewing is so fragmented now in terms of platforms and channels, why do the networks insist on this stupid ritual?
Lenny Nero
by gotilk
Oct 25th, 2009
10:43:10 PM
That sounds like a slightly skewed, familiar idealistic pipe dream. Back in the 60s, hell any decade(hell ALL TIME), we had people who thought "if we'd all just co-operate". If there's one lesson we can both take from all this, it's that expecting humans to ALL co-operate (or even most of them) is just that, a pipe dream. Never going to happen. We can come close, but it will never be enough. That's why we have society and government. It fails, it makes huge mistakes, feels cold and hateful, favors the rich (while the middle class employed pretends and is cajoled into believing it favors the lazy.. and if you think that started with Fox News, you're living in a very small bubble), but it's the best alternative so far. That doesn't sound very HOPEful, does it? That's the breaks. Aside from revolution, you're stuck with it. And I get this strange feeling this American model of society will defend itself vigorously. I know your heart's in the right place. I have idealistic visions, too. I'd love to see a reputation-based economy, independence from oil, cheap housing on free land with home kits, a looser educational system with rewards, the end of religion (or re-marginalization), incarceration without punishment, abolition of traffic fines, bully intervention systems, legal psychedelics... but I will probably never see one of those in my lifetime. You've got to be both realistic and if you want things to happen you have to make them happen yourself, slowly and if it's unpopular with the general public, sometimes deceptively.
Venture Brothers + Kevin Conroy
by Aquatarkusman
Oct 25th, 2009
11:32:22 PM
No TB yet? Do I have to resort to those dreary forums?
end of religion?
by TakingScorpiosCalls
Oct 26th, 2009
01:32:28 AM
the world would be like out of Salo if that happened.
People have such short memories
by solvseus
Oct 26th, 2009
01:52:35 AM
Obama does indeed suck, but only because he hasn't done ENOUGH. But to ask some of you, everything that happened before he even started to run for Pres is his fault. Dismantling the middle class? Really? Unlike Bush, under who's administration the middle class shrank considerably? Under which the deficit (actual, not projected) increased more than all other Pres' combined? Meanwhile Obama starts with a moderate position on healthcare reform in order to compromise with people calling him a fascist, socialist, communist and every other -ist they don't actually understand the meaning of, and tried to reform the banking industry, but rolled over to his corporate far right masters (also to compromise, not that the right actually does vote for his and the Dems watered down crap) after staving off a disaster most of you don't seem to understand and he's Hitler. These moderate Dems may not be great, mostly because they're pussies, but the far right is absolutely wrong on almost everything, and nearly ruined us, which is why they keep trying to pretend Obama is responsible for their obvious fsck-y ups. And while some of you may think the rest of us are just lefties (Obama included, yeah right looking at his actual policies and what he's done, or in some cases hasn't done), we're actually the main stream looking at pretty much any poll. The rest of us are frustrated with Dems, but still absolutely hate the GOP.

You in the very vocal but vast minority (somewhere around about 20% last I checked) can hold your little teabagging parties and bitch, even though the Dems should just ignore you as you'd never support them even if they gave you money (oops, they actually have), the rest of us have REAL problems with Obama and the Dems, again, mostly because they aren't doing ENOUGH.

All the money goes to the Yankees
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 26th, 2009
02:00:05 AM
even though half the team uses steroids.
Why the 'previous cable numbers'?
by Himbo
Oct 26th, 2009
08:29:12 AM
is this simply for context?

Also, I think people do watch Dollhouse, on Hulu anyway. Speaking of which, that's where I'm headed.

Why did Fox waste it's money?
by Josstossesthesalad
Oct 26th, 2009
09:59:00 AM
Every week everyone laments how horrible Dollhouse is going and how wonderful it is compared to everything else on tv. People, it's not that good. No one except his fanbase likes it and they're acting like apologists for everything this hack does. I've seen all of his work and it's not that good, nothing spectacular. The hype machine doesn't work people.
Hey Salad toss man
by Mr_Satan
Oct 26th, 2009
10:22:04 AM

Why are you hating on a show that you don't watch. I've read your posts before and you don't watch the show. So as they said way back in a movie about a stupid deer. If you don't have anything nice to say. Don't say anything at all.

The hate on this site is just god awful. Now I hate some shows sure. But I don't despise everything or person in or dealing with a show. But you made a name specifically out of spite. You'd think he robbed you or slept with your wife/girlfriend, mom or sister or all three at the same time. Why not comment on something that you like. You'll be surprised how much happier you are. Oh and go outside you basement dweller.

I'd Disagree Josstoss
by Dave I
Oct 26th, 2009
10:43:05 AM
I like the show. It's not the best thing to ever grace TV, however at its best it has some intelligent writing, good acting (although yes, I'll accept criticism of Dushku), shows some pretty compelling character development, and is willing to look at some interesting moral issues within the realm of science fiction. I've never watched a Joss Whedon show, so I'm not a fanboy either (nothing against him, but the Vampire thing is hard to truly grab my interest since its been so played out and Firefly was cancelled before I was even aware of it). Just one viewer's opinion, but the show has found its stride, the (somewhat awkward, allegedly Fox-tampered) premise has been established, and now they are able to use it as a backdrop to not only build a rich mythology of sorts, explore an interesting concept (controlling human minds/hormones), and all of the moral, ethical, and religious concepts that come with the jobs, what defines personality, the soul, etc. With a better time slot, a decent marketing strategy, and maybe having people watch an impact, quality episode first (I wasn't a big fan of the first several episodes so think that diminished the initial audience greatly) and this show could have found an audience greater than just the Whedon fanboys and people like who stuck it out through the weaker episodes. This most recent episode was pretty compelling watching, so it makes me a bit irritated that the show has gotten its voice and become in my mind such a strong show just in time to be taken from the November Sweeps and virtually guaranteed of cancellation.
VitaminZ
by frozen01
Oct 26th, 2009
11:23:47 AM
I think blaming it on people's attention spans is too easy. It's not an simple concept... yes, the government being so far into the red is scary, but our own history shows that previous presidents have done the same thing (think WWII, think national parks) which created tons of jobs and allowed us to pull ourselves back out of the funk. Will that happen again? We have no way of knowing. It's a gamble, for sure, but tax cuts didn't work, trickle-down theory has been field-tested and failed, and we're running out of options. The problem isn't a lack of attention span, but a lack of a crystal ball. We don't know what will and will not work until it's tried, and each option runs significant risks.
The problem with Dollhouse is..
by OlafGladNBig
Oct 26th, 2009
11:36:06 AM
They've tried to hard to appeal to casual viewers. They keep coming up with "hooker of the week" stories that will allow people to take each episode as it comes without following the developing story but they just arent very compelling. The concept raises issues and it strains to deal with the consequences of the technology but when it fails it ignores these things when it works they are front and center. I dont think it's an issue with the actors or there talent it's the writing and what they're given. Echo is more a problem then Dushku.
Michael Douglas, Sean Penn, & David Fincher got together
by Big Jim
Oct 26th, 2009
12:00:09 PM
on Friday night to watch Smallville, as they do every week. They all agreed there was something vaguely familiar about the episode but none of them could quite figure out why that was.
Fair enough: I like Clone Wars let the hate begin
by Josstossesthesalad
Oct 26th, 2009
12:29:38 PM
Fair enough, I do spew some hate on Whedon. I tried the show, but now I will get mercilessly ridiculed for my likes. Here they are: Simpsons (a bad Simpsons is better than a good Family Guy), Supernatural (X-Files with normal people and demons), True Blood (southern vampires yay), Clone Wars (CGI Star Wars is good, I know it's not Empire), Venture Brothers (it just rocks), and I do like TCM. See, I'm not trying to be mean to anyone on the site, I'm not. Plus, I only wish I had a basement hehe. No, I enjoy fresh air. Seriously though, you made a good point and I'm answering in kind.
The Muppet show was perfect too, just saying
by Josstossesthesalad
Oct 26th, 2009
12:30:41 PM
What the hell is a basement dweller anyway?
by Josstossesthesalad
Oct 26th, 2009
12:32:15 PM
Never understood that term. I mean aren't we all movie/tv/scifi/comic/etc. geeks anyway? I'm sure most of us have spent more time than normal on media.
I want to like Smallville I really do
by Josstossesthesalad
Oct 26th, 2009
12:34:19 PM
I feel like a crackhead to this show. They give me little glimpses, but I never get the initial high I had from Superman comics. I just want Batman or Green Lantern on there.
Get ready to say goodbye to Dollhouse....
by Jamie McBain
Oct 26th, 2009
01:08:50 PM
Which is a shame too, because the show was starting to get good.
Josstosses: Batman & Green Lantern rights are tied up in movies
by SpyGuy
Oct 26th, 2009
03:48:31 PM
You will, however, get to see Hawkman, Dr. Fate and Stargirl in January when Geoff Johns' Justice Society two-parter airs.
It's Friday you shouldn't be watching tv
by DDMAN26
Oct 26th, 2009
06:15:50 PM
Seriously you should be out of the house that night. Catch a movie, spend time with friends and family. Go to dinner.
Van Graylore, you have no clue about politics
by shoe1985
Oct 26th, 2009
06:35:12 PM
When Bush entered office he had a surplus of over $5 trillion. What did he do with it? Simple, he gave the rich a $1.5 trillion tax cut, he went into two wars, when it should have been one, and then everyone asks what happened to the surplus money? That money should have went to doing the things the stimulus bill is doing now, you know: fixing the roads, pushing for alternative energies, upgrading schools, and just getting basic infrastructure fixed. Also, if you shop at Wal-Mart, you are basically supporting outsourcing and government run health care. Think about it: Wal-Mart pushes companies to outsource their products by forcing them to lowering their prices, otherwise, your product is not in their stores. they push their employees to government health care, in turn helping cut costs for them. This does not even mention destroying wages in this country. Funny how conservatives love that place, but hate the things I mentioned.
Leno can take his car collection to hell with him!
by Onin Solstice
Oct 26th, 2009
06:46:56 PM
Basement Dweller is a monacher given to uber geeks
by Mr_Satan
Oct 26th, 2009
06:47:51 PM

I am a closet geek, so no one knows till I mention Star Trek that I'm a true dweeb. Basement dweller is what we used to be identified with. You know that creepy Dungeons and Dragon kid who LARP'ed at home before anyone knew what he was doing.

I'll take Family Guy over the Simpsons any day. It's just stupid funny.

As for DC characters on Smallville. Batman Could have been put in Smallville, but as we all know DC/Paramount execs are dumb as a box of rocks. They own the rights to all DC characters. Literally. You money grubbing ass munches. They can do what they want, with whom ever they want.

If it's that old well people won't be able to differentiate the TV Batman, Lantern, Flash. From the movie version they need to get their heads out of the asses and give us some credit. We like what we like.

And if you fuck us over with your logic than your franchise dies. Because no matter what Execs think they are usually wrong. Wolverine/Transformers 2/ GI Joe don't count. Those are aberrations. Because people expected something and got something else.

Joss needs muppets!
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 26th, 2009
09:28:48 PM
Perfect combination
"...that creepy Dungeons and Dragon kid who LARP'ed at home"
by Big Jim
Oct 26th, 2009
09:58:07 PM
Tom Hanks?
No, he problem with Dollhouse is...
by Stegman84
Oct 27th, 2009
02:43:07 AM
...it's shit. I take no great pleasure in saying that, as a fan of all of Whedon's prior tv work, and of much of his comic book writing as well, but it is sadly true. The characters and plot have developed barely an inch since it started, and most episodes are endlessly dull and cookie cutter predictable in the extreme. Buffy probably went out about the right time, Angel deserved a little more, Firefly definitely deserved better than the early exit that it had, but Dollhouse, in the grand tradition of all things paradoxical, has actually lasted a damn sight longer than it deserved to, either from a ratings or a quality point of view. The show has apparently been threatening to 'start to get good' for a season and a half now, but it has barely ever actually gotten good, let alone stayed good. Put a bullet in it, this one deserves to die.
Here's an idea...
by DookieMercury
Oct 27th, 2009
03:25:14 AM
Watch Epitaph One then Ghost In The Shell. It changes your entire perspective on Dollhouse. My feeling is that for a show like this to work it needs a slow burn. The problem is just there's too little violence to scare people and too little sex to arouse. It is a matter of a show being too smart and too slow to develop for its own good. Note there's no catchphrases no gimmicks other than Dushku and the better episodes had her be more in the background supporting and not the lead. I can't say this Whedon's best but hey what do I know I couldn't stand Buffy other than the movie, only liked the Angel puppet episode, learned about Firefly by watching Serenity, and my only knowledge of the dude's work comes from looking at the opening titles to Roseanne and Dr. Horrible, it's catchy. In other words, I'm not a Whedon fan like some, but Dollhouse did catch and held me last season unlike T:SCC. Fox notoriously, for me anywise, killed my favorite show before 100, Boston Public it made to I believe 96 and I never forgave them for that or Briscoe County. Anyways the show, Dollhouse was lucky to make it to season 2 and after seeing the 13th ep. from last season it showed me more of its potential which was wasted. I say if I were Whedon from this point forward I'd give Fox the finger and take my wares to a better network,
A Dollhouse Anecdote
by Toonol
Oct 27th, 2009
03:33:06 AM
Friday's episode was great. My son (fourteen years old) spent the night friday at his friend's house. They were hanging out, and they watched Dollhouse at my son's prompting. My son's friend, and his sister (who is probably the REAL reason my son goes over there) both really liked the episode, and will continue to watch it.

Of course, they'll have forgotten about it three weeks from now, or whenever the next episode airs.

"The characters and plot have developed barely an inch since it
by Dave I
Oct 27th, 2009
08:37:53 AM
"The characters and plot have developed barely an inch since it started, and most episodes are endlessly dull and cookie cutter predictable in the extreme." While I can respect that, and some episodes would have me agreeing, overall I disagree. The characters HAVE developed, particularly Topher and his moral dilemmas and character growth. Additional points of character development: Boyd and his motivations are an ongoing mystery and we have slowly gotten more insight into his character and glimpses into his past; It's only 1.5 seasons in and we are seeing Echo develop a plan for undermining the Dollhouse, not to mention utilizing some of her not-entirely-erased personalities that help or hinder her in the present; Victor and Sierra/Priya have been developed nicely, as a couple and with the very compelling story of Priya's history last week; Alpha had a pretty nice payoff last season with the promise of his inevitable return; Whiskey/Saunders had a very emotional revelation and powerful moment in the show that radically changed her and her role in the Dollhouse (both the show, and the organization). Also, Dollhouse is going to be portrayed as revealed to the public, by November/Mellie (the character they made radical changes with) and Senator Perrin. So I'd say there has been development and change in the show. Don't forget Ballard's development; from a borderline-obsessed FBI agent to Echo's handler to quasi-underground-assistant of Echo's plan to still take out the Dollhouse. I think the plot has done a BIT more than move an inch or so. Have some episodes been predictable and forgettable? Sure. Could middle school creative writing classes come up with some of the plot points or ideas/twists at time? Yep. Are there episodes where in the first five or ten minutes you can totally predict how the whole episode is going to play out? Yeah. However, the plot has developed and some rather huge status-changing events have happened, the characters and their histories are much better developed and more well-rounded than I feel you are giving them credit for, and at its best the writing is very compelling, creating a tale where events and the characters stick with you (well, not necessarily YOU as in Stegman84, but YOU as in me and anybody else who likes the show). I can understand some of the criticisms, and given the time-slot and slow start I can get why it doesn't have more of an audience. I just think it's become a very good show and given the proper chance could be reasonably successful and end up a potentially great show for several more seasons. Not that it will likely get the chance, however I think it should.
Here's the thing...
by Stegman84
Oct 27th, 2009
09:50:45 AM
I like a show that's a slow burn. I have no problem with a show that takes its time to reveal itself, just so long as it does so in an interesting and engaging fashion. Dollhouse, for me, hasn't done that. And I don't see a change of job as being character progression, in fact I see it as an excuse for a lack of character progression. So that when people say, the characters are basically the same now as they were in the pilot, someone can say, but Boyd is head of security now, and Ballard is working at the Dollhouse rather than chasing it. Moving the tiles isn't the same as deepening the characters in my books. There's just no reason for things to develop as slowly as they have for the small amount of forward advancement we have recieved. I mean when you can sum up any character, or the overall plot progression is pretty much a single sentence each, and not really miss any important details, then that's an indication to me that there's way too much stagnation going on. Now if the shows were wildly compelling or effortlessly entertaining regardless, then maybe it wouldn't matter so much, but because so much of the show is so bland and generic and frankly dull, it makes the slow progression seem even more painful by comparison, and just leaves me wishing that they'd get a move on, and that something would happen already.

It makes me feel like most of my time watching this show is being wasted, with little payoff for the investment of such time, either in terms of plot progression or just plain entertainment, and that's a terrible feeling to have as a watcher of any show. I mean a bad show is easy to stop watching, and a good show is easy to come back to, but a mediocre show is probably the worst of all, particularly one made by people whose work you usually like and want to give the benefit of the doubt to. But Dollhouse to me is just that painfully mediocre show that I keep hoping for better from, only to be constantly disappointed by.

But hey, despite all of that, I'd never tell anyone else that they don't have a right to a different opinion, or shouldn't like a show just because it doesn't work for me, so while I don't agree with you Dave I, I can certainly respect the fact that you happen to like the show and apparently see things in it that I don't.

Whatever happened to Halloween Specials?
by Josstossesthesalad
Oct 27th, 2009
09:57:11 AM
It seems to get Halloween programming I have to watch TCM, AMC (even though it's not that good), and History Channel. Rememeber when Scifi used to have Universal Horror and not utter shit on it? Anyone showing the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown?
Fair Enough Stegman84
by Dave I
Oct 27th, 2009
10:24:49 AM
I would say that we've seen glimpses into Boyd's character that give me hope they will (or would) tap into something interesting about his past, Topher's development this season, particularly the last episode, has shown the most growth out of anybody for the show's entire run, and the notes Echo scratched into her enclosed bed seem to foreshadow the character's development and makes me want to watch the series over again to see what I've missed. So sometimes it's the little things like that which make me see it as developing in meaningful (if slow) ways. That said, I can totally see where some of the more boring episodes would throw people off the band wagon. I just seen enough good bits and the promise of potential that they are hinting will be fulfilled (if the show goes on long enough). So I like the show almost despite itself sometimes. However, I just think those times when it's really telling the story its capable of, it can be pretty special. While I may have a different opinion of the show, I can respect yours as well. If they had started off with an episode like "Belonging" and done more with serial-storytelling and had character development like we've seen with Topher throughout, and face it a better day & time, I think the show could have been much more critically acclaimed and numerically superior. As an aside, does
("< br >")work for line breaks? It'd be nice to use paragraphs on this forum.
BR does work to move to the next line (good for lists)
by Big Jim
Oct 27th, 2009
11:44:04 AM
if you want to create paragraphs, use P (enclosed within of course)

Castle had a Halloween episode last night, and I believe The Mentalist has one too this week. I also heard Medium is doing a "Night of the Living Dead" episode, and NBC has some sort of "Monsters vs Aliens" Halloween special on Wednesday. ABC seems to be airing "It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown" tonight at 8:00 and tomorrow too.

that should read " enclosed within '' of course"
by Big Jim
Oct 27th, 2009
11:44:53 AM
and that should read "enclosed within '< >' of course"
by Big Jim
Oct 27th, 2009
11:45:31 AM
401k
by dengreg31
Oct 27th, 2009
12:31:16 PM
"My 401k has doubled in the last 10 months. Hail to the chief I say!" Utterly ridiculous statement. What, your 401k was 15 bucks?
I think Herc is actually the Robot Chicken
by RICHARD_GERE_RAPED_MY_GERBIL
Oct 27th, 2009
02:47:26 PM
Strapped to that chair and forced to watch crap for a living.
re the simspons halloween specials..
by emeraldboy
Oct 27th, 2009
03:23:40 PM
I have heard the writers hate doing them.
THE SIMPSONS IS STILL ON?
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 27th, 2009
03:26:56 PM
Locke......IS LOST STILL ON?
by DrMorbius
Oct 27th, 2009
04:38:22 PM
The real question should read, WHY?
RELAX SHIT HEAD Lost ends next year
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 27th, 2009
08:32:34 PM
That means plenty more one and done shows will come on.
"The Simpsons is still on?"
by Toonol
Oct 27th, 2009
09:23:37 PM
Damn, that is a genius comment. I laughed and laughed. Send that to Reader's Digest!

Bye, Funnyman! (Hoping you will grace us again next week with that same joke. I CAN'T WAIT!)

Hey ASSHOLE....I mean locke...
by DrMorbius
Oct 27th, 2009
10:21:32 PM
No I mean ASSHOLE. You come up with the same tired shit all the time. Only an ASSHOLE would make an assinine statement that he knows to be untrue, but someone mention his precious Lost and he calls them a shithead. Real smooth ASSHOLE. Oh, and did I mention you are and ASSHOLE? So, what's it gonna be ASSHOLE?
DrMorbius please go fuck yourself
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 27th, 2009
11:13:34 PM
Your D and D fan board misses you.
Welcome back you little cunt...
by DrMorbius
Oct 27th, 2009
11:20:34 PM
Now you're stooping to using your mentors (Assimov) simplistic replies. I tried doing what you suggested but your Moms tongue kept getting in the way.
You know, when you said go fuck yourself....
by DrMorbius
Oct 27th, 2009
11:25:39 PM
your Moms tongue...so when she kisses you goodnight, you'll have tasted my sphincter too. Bon Appetit',
And sweet masterbutory dreams of....
by DrMorbius
Oct 27th, 2009
11:29:13 PM
big sweaty Transformers! Happy Fapping!
Wow, three posts from the same guy
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 28th, 2009
01:36:21 AM
Someone needs a life.
@lockesbrokenleg : "Someone needs a life"
by V'Shael
Oct 28th, 2009
03:19:40 AM
From the guy who compulsively posts in every single talkback? That's the funniest thing I've seen in ages.
V'Shael I don't see your name on the moderator list
by lockesbrokenleg
Oct 28th, 2009
03:28:46 PM
so kindly fuck off or go start your own message board where 2 people post.
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