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What's that?
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:06:57 AM
You want more reviews?

http://tinyurl.com/ncr6bz

Man I got nothing better to do.

BOOM! KIDS
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:08:31 AM
Is pretty good stuff. Though Mr. Stuffins was not as cool as I thought it would be.
Though
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:09:44 AM
I don't feel the need to turn EVERY Pixar movie into a cartoon. I really want to see what they do with Wall-E, but are they really going to bring back A Bug's Life and Toy Story 2?
Just me?
by Duck of Death
Jul 8th, 2009
09:09:51 AM
I found that Captain America review completely incomprehensible.
Liam ‘The Kid’
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:11:24 AM
Though I don't know if he reads this, maybe his dad does. Either way he needs to be tought about Teddy Ruxpin and that creepy ass bear from AI. Then go back and read Mr. Stuffins.
Good ole Optimous
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:12:25 AM
Gay porn always on the mind.
EXISTENCE 2.0???
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:15:28 AM
Why is everyone tripping over themselves to praise the shit out of this title? It was ok, better then Unwritten but not the next anything. And the art was really just flat, I don't think it matched the story.
Anyone going to pick up the
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:16:36 AM
$4 newpaper that DC is putting out this week? Fucking $4 for that thing. I wanted to get it, now I dont.
I want to see a Max series round up
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:17:39 AM
By Liam the Kid next week.
Series 7
by AndrewGol
Jul 8th, 2009
09:22:44 AM
Teddy Ruxpin was before his time and he's never seen AI. And I want to spare him the horror of ever knowing about Ruxpin or watching AI
Wednesday Comics
by AndrewGol
Jul 8th, 2009
09:24:44 AM
Definately picking it up. I'm glad that DC is trying something different with the new format and they have a great line up of creators. The preview pages were amazing. 4 bucks seems to be the new standard price for books so I'm not really bothered by it. My geek pick of the week of course is Amazing Spider-Man Annual 36....Ben Reilly flashback baby!!!
Awww come on
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:27:23 AM
I think Ruxpin is making a comeback, and Teddy was the only cool thing in AI.

New Ruxpin

http://tinyurl.com/2fy2po

Duck Of Death...
by alfiemoon
Jul 8th, 2009
09:28:26 AM
I guess the Cap/Reborn review was meant to be "unstuck in time", like Steve Rogers appears to be. Unfortunately, this prevented it from saying anything interesting or insightful about the book itself, leaving it less of a review and more a series of disjointed, apparently unconnected statements (a bit like Series 7's posts). I would have preferred an actual review, I think.
Stream of conscious
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:31:55 AM
Kind of like Faulkner.
Stop fucking around and review the damn comic book!
by rev_skarekroe
Jul 8th, 2009
09:34:08 AM
Also, I'd buy a Bryan Hitch drawn Archie comic.
MUPPET SHOW
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:36:52 AM
Does it have the Bear? He was created for the new Muppet Show in the 90s, the bumbling idiot security guard. He was pretty funny, I don't see him on the cover.
Cheshire Cat one shot
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:43:28 AM
Was pretty cool, though it played out like Black Christmas.
Agreed
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
09:43:39 AM
Usually, I prefer going on about my own opinions, instead of talking about you guy', but the Cap review was bad and frankly, a little embarrassing in its total failure. Better luck next time...
I really would've liked to have had an informative review about
by The Nihilist
Jul 8th, 2009
09:44:26 AM
...rather than seven paragraphs of the reviewer masturbating back and forth, saying "Whee, look at how clever I am here!" Oh well, maybe next time.
Reviews of classic Marvel Comics
by kalel21
Jul 8th, 2009
09:47:49 AM
Remember to check out comicsradio.blogspot.com for a week-by-week history of classic Marvel superhero books. I'll stop plugging this site every week before I become too much of a troll. The blog is done by a friend of mine, though, so I wanted to give his blog what I think is some deserving attention.
So, REBORN was a disappointment?
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
09:49:10 AM
That means DC will have to copy something else when they bring back Bruce Wayne after 12 months of whiny twenty-something angst?

"Unstuck in time."

Superheroes are stupid.

Marvel Divas
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
09:51:15 AM
If there was nudity and fucking... top ten seller. Why not make it a max series with the stuff that you know your main demographic is going to buy immediately (and claim that they didn't). Otherwise, a Superhero Sex and the City? I mean, its not a bad idea, in and of itself, but is there really a market for it, sans naked tits?
U.S.A. COMICS #1
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:51:21 AM
Why did they put that fucking preview in this? I would have actually like to have read some interview about how they went updating the story or what not. Putting a stupid preview in this comic dates it, while the whole thing shoud have come off as a timeless thing. Fucking pisses me off.
Marvel Divas
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
09:52:21 AM
Is just an answer to DC Sirens. Both suck.
Black Widow
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
09:58:25 AM
So is her name Natasha or Natalia? They can't seem to decide...
Also
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
09:59:24 AM
I haven't been to th LCS yet, so I'm excited for the next Batman and Robin. Morrison and Quitely are fanatstic. Do you think its because Frank tells Grant "no"? Do you think Grant spews his weird shit, just getting more and more unspooled and losing more and more sight of the narrative string and thn Frank goes: "Grant! You're drifting! Focus!"
Frank slips
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
10:04:04 AM
Adderall in Grants sippy cup.
Reborn
by machine monkey
Jul 8th, 2009
10:05:19 AM
Could we get a new review? One that makes sense?
I cry JUSTICE for my $ back!
by Squashua
Jul 8th, 2009
10:08:22 AM
I want my four bucks back, DC.
Liked MR STUFFINS when it was BORIS THE BEAR
by Squashua
Jul 8th, 2009
10:09:18 AM
Just sayin'.
Liked MARVEL DIVAS when it was ULTRA
by Squashua
Jul 8th, 2009
10:10:32 AM
The only readable book from The Luna Bros.
Is that Katrina line about white people really in Divas?!?
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
10:21:02 AM
I hope in the next panel another cartoon slapped that stupid cartoon bitch in the face.

What an asinine, hacky thing to write for a black, female character.

Hey
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
10:21:21 AM
Did Far Arden come out yet? I wanted to check that one out.
"That stupid cartoon bitch"
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
10:22:25 AM
Thats awesome
REBORN : Review / Plot breakdown. Courtest of wikipedia
by V'Shael
Jul 8th, 2009
10:28:15 AM
Captain America #600

The story starts with the second anniversary of the death of Captain America. There is a dispute between people, whether to honor him as a patriot, or hate him for being a traitor. Sharon Carter is also looking for the agent to whom she gave the gun she used to kill Steve Rogers. She tracks him down, and using a device from Nick Fury, she hypnotizes him and makes him tell her where he put the gun.

The focus they put on finding the specific gun, gives the writer the option of saying "It wasn't an ORDINARY gun..." so methinks we can see the beginnings of the ret-con right there.

As Bucky (the current Captain America) reflects on what's happening to the country, Rikki Barnes talks with Eli Bradley (aka Patriot), telling him that she wants to be Bucky's new partner. Patriot says that Bucky is not looking for a new partner right now, but he wants Rikki to meet him, like Steve would have wanted him to.

Meanwhile, Crossbones and Sin escape from the H.A.M.M.E.R. holding facility in Colorado, and the Red Skull returns, still trapped in his robot body. In Central Park, Falcon, Natasha, Bucky, Luke Cage, Jessica Drew, and Clint Barton are there without their costumes, but have a teleportation spell ready in case Norman Osborn and his Dark Avengers attempt to capture them. Osborn, Sentry and the new Ms. Marvel manage to find the group while hovering over the park, but Osborn decides not to attack them. Instead, Osborn appears in front of the crowd, and says that the gathering, thought to be illegal, was approved by H.A.M.M.E.R. He declares that they will honor Captain America for who he was, and the crowd shouts his name, which upsets the Avengers present. Sharon Carter then appears to them, saying that there is still a way to save Steve.

At the H.A.M.M.E.R. holding facility in Colorado, Sin is questioned about a second shooter besides Crossbones in the murder of Captain America. They promise her freedom in exchange for the shooter, figuring that since the Red Skull is dead, she does not need to be loyal to him anymore. Sin laughs at this, and tackles the H.A.M.M.E.R agent, whispering something in his ear. She is about to escape when Bullseye captures her. Later, Bullseye and Norman Osborn are talking with the agent Sin attacked, and he says that she whispered, "Why are you sure he is dead?" Osborn declares that is a problem, but the question is whether she was talking about her father, or about Captain America.

Reborn

Sharon, Falcon, Vision, and Hank Pym are meeting together at Hank's lab. While Bucky and Black Widow infiltrate a H.A.M.M.E.R. helicarrier, Sharon explains to everyone how she shot Captain America. However, when they examine the gun, which she recovered in Captain America #600, they discover that it is technology sponsored by none other than Doctor Doom. (Yeah, saw THAT coming...) The gun didn't kill Steve, but as Zola explains to Osborn during a meeting, "froze him within space and time," and while Sharon was captured by Red Skull, she was used as part of a device to bring Steve back, or "unstick" him from time. When she damaged the machine, Steve did become "unstuck," however, no one is sure where. As Bucky and Widow are attacked by Ares and Venom, there are flashbacks to Steve Rogers, who appears on D-Day, his mother's death, and then back in D-Day with Bucky from that time. He questions what is happening to him, but appears to prepare to go along with where he is, and fight the battles of World War II all over again.

Stuck/Unstuck in time
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
10:42:40 AM
So are Steve Rogers and Bruce Wayne just hanging out together?
Any kid who doesn't like Incredibles or Cars
by FeralAngel
Jul 8th, 2009
10:44:16 AM
...is suspect, IMO. Therefore I shall heretofore make it my life's mission to warn all parents against Liam's choice in reading matter, lest their children also eschew solid superhero action and big shiny things that go ZOOM in favor of talking oven mitts. An entire generation is at stake here. Seriously, I think Liam's dad is making his kid's choices and telling him to like it. Nazi Dad. Not a pretty picture. Break free Liam. Be your own man! You're too old for puppets, little dude. (And can there be anything lamer than CARTOON puppets?)
Worst Review Ever
by Mike Hunt 4 Pres
Jul 8th, 2009
10:52:03 AM
That Captain America Reborn review was the worst review I have ever fucking read. The Kid's reviews are way better.
You know what bothers me about Bullseys/Hawkeye?
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
11:00:49 AM
The bracer on his left hand is facing out. hat makes no sense. The bracer is supposed to protect the inner arm of the bow arm from the bow string and they always darw it facing he wrong way. That bugs the hell out of me.
Maybe he wears it that way on purpose
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
11:02:30 AM
to show that he's so fucking good, he doesn't need to protect the inner arm of his bow arm, because his pulls are so perfect, the string never grazes him.

NO PRIZE!

^ That is correct
by Autodidact
Jul 8th, 2009
11:17:12 AM
Here is your No Prize!
We3
by Autodidact
Jul 8th, 2009
11:26:31 AM
If you like Morrisson+Quitely, We3 is the best thing they've done. It's about runaway experimental military animals. Probably my favourite comic of 2006.
JUSTICE!!!
by Dingleberry Jones
Jul 8th, 2009
11:27:14 AM
Well, that was pretty weak. A couple of points for the pretty pictures, but overall, the book was brutal-particularly the dialogue. It was grade school, nay, alternative school at best. Cliches abound. How many times was there a character screaming "Justice!!" or a phrase containing said word? How trite. Characterization was brutal. Hal is leaving the League because he wants "justice" for recent events, okay, but is it "justice" Hal wants or is it revenge? Really? That's the type of hackneyed writing that were up against, folks. I would call it lazy writing, but mind you, they've been working towards this book for what, a year and a half? And yeah, that filler b.s. won't play here, unless it's 8 more pages of banal dialogue, in which case, you can keep your book and I'll spend my money on a cheap bottle of wine and drink to forget I just spent 4 bucks on a turd thats painted really nice.
Thank goodness other people pointed out
by dogrobber
Jul 8th, 2009
11:29:20 AM
they had problems with the Cap review - I thought it was just me and I had suffered a stroke while reading it. Seriously, I don't know if it is because of my Asperger's but this is the first time I have read something that actually caused me physical pain.
which is just the dumbed down version of watchmen??
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
11:32:53 AM
Huh? How so?
Justice/Robinson
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
11:35:52 AM
I just flipped through it, but the dialogue was fucking terrible.

And you know what, I just realized that Starman hasn't held up that well for me, having now read the third omnibus. It's a series that largely revolves around people sitting around telling stories, and those scenes are often suffused with a sugary sentimentality portrayed by a writer who is truly in love with the sound of his own voice-- Robinson has to narrate EVERYTHING in this series, often with way too many words-- as in redundant, syrupy, melodramatic words and very, very clumsy, hacky metaphors and similes: "The resolution like rice from a morning wedding on a windy afternoon. Scattered. Gone." There's stuff like that everywhere. And finally, thinking about it, I realized I kind of feel like Jack Knight is a huge fucking douche. He's a hipster poseur, with his little tattoos and collectible turds and "vintage" everything and lack of training or tradecraft. He's dull, kind of, in the sense that I feel Jack is a collection of quirks meant to signify "interesting" when really those quirks seem built around a hollow space, some lack of character, making him a, well, poseur. I couldn't understand this reaction at first. I'd loved the series when it first came out, though I did drop it somewhere in the mid-30s-- and now I remember why. There's this pedantic, kitschy sense of self-satisfaction to the book, which becomes more pronounced as it goes. A lot of dead air on the page, and a lot of purple prose. It's not really a bad comic, and can at times be really good, but as a series, it's hardly the defining masterpiece it seems to be taken for.

For God's sake
by maelstrom_ZERO
Jul 8th, 2009
11:36:23 AM
Stop fucking around and review the damn comic book!
Didio and more bang for your buck
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
11:38:06 AM
Here is a novel idea, instaed of secondary stories or bonus material how about 30 pages of the comic you paid $4 for?

Give me 30 pages of the main story without fluff and filler and then I might see some value.

The secondary stories might be good but if that is the case collectthem and put them in their own book and you can keep you "bonus" material.

If that is how they justify the price hike, no thanks, you can remove that stuff and drop the price back down.

On a more serious note however...
by maelstrom_ZERO
Jul 8th, 2009
11:40:09 AM

...Series7, I'm assuming that the Cap review is a homage to the scene in Watchmen, where Jon is on Mars, examining his entire life from his helter-skelter perspective on time. If you recall, he jumps forward and back multiple times as he's narrating how he ended up on Mars.

And as witty and amusing as it might have been to see the review of Cap as a Watchman homage, I still can't make heads or tails of it. Dammit, if only I could perceive time in a non-linear fashion.

You know, Morrison can be that good without Quitely
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
11:40:10 AM
I mean, he's always been able to do 'Super-adventure-comics-Grant- Morrison' (and there's probably nobody better at that kind of thing, actually). He usually doesn't have an artist as great as Quitely, but I don't think Quitely restrains him in any way. It's just a matter of which Morrison shows up to work.
The Cap Review
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
11:41:18 AM
The Reborn review just became unstuck in time. Alright? That's hardly the fault of the reviewer.
Mr. FTW is right
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
11:44:09 AM
30 pages would make the price seem like a deal. Back-up stories are always a waste and are usually the type of story that is either common knowledge on a "duh" level or the type that believes it's an arty little tale, but is actually just art student shallow and cliched.
maelstrom_ZERO
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
11:44:58 AM
No I was talking about bacci40 saying that the incredibles was like Watchmen. I wanted to know how.
Laserhead
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
11:45:51 AM
I haven't read starman, someone missing it when it first came out, and in the years since people slaver all over it and I linger around the edges almost picking it up, but when I glance through it... I get the exact same feelings that you just described, so I never get it. I can't imagine this feeling grows less with time, either.
Morrison
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
11:48:24 AM
yeah, its a matter of which Morrison shows up and not reliant on Quitely, but still, somewhere post JLA and Invisibles, Grant started to show tendencies toward becoming... narratively unstable at times... and the dichoomy between his two halves is so wide and fascinating, that I can't help just what the hell is going on at that moment that determines which one we, as the readers, get.
secondary stories
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
11:48:26 AM
Actually Skaar is doing this quite nicely. Jumping back and forth between Skaar on earth and Silver Surfer on Sakaar. But Skaar is only $3 save for the one shots, but they are pretty full as well. Though that Hulk Family was $5, jeez didn't pick it up, anyone? If you don't read Skaar, you should, but flip through some of the back issues you will see what I am talking about it is handled very well.
If you don't like $4 bucks for 22 + bonus material
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
11:51:51 AM
You surely are going to go ballistic over WEDNESDAY COMICS.

Should've been a no-brainer, due to the unique format and the talent involved. Turns out, 16 over-size pages of poorly-colored newsprint doesn't really seem to be worth $4 a week.

What's a newspaper cost?

And for that, one also gets a sports section, a business section, a political section, a local section, an entertainment section AND a comics section.

We3 is Morrison / Quitely's masterpiece.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
11:53:08 AM
You're right about Morrison
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
11:54:01 AM
Where, exactly, can we mark the break, when he started becoming 'narratively unstable'?... Was it his last arc on X-Men, "Here Comes Tomorrow", or before that?
Well fuck
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
11:55:22 AM
Just looked Skaar jumped to $4 last issue, I guess since you add a $1 for ever extra Hulk family member in a comic together.
Yeah WEDNESDAY COMICS.
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
11:56:35 AM
Should have been a $1 max. I wanted to buy that, but now fuck that. I'll wait for the trade.
Invisibles was "narratively unstable".
by rev_skarekroe
Jul 8th, 2009
12:00:13 PM
But that was the point.

Invisibles was so cool...

Superman in USA Today
by Snookeroo
Jul 8th, 2009
12:00:13 PM
Kudos to DC for this one -- the Man of Steel is the subject of an article in today's USA Today. Apparently, USA Today will run the Superman strip from DC's Wednesday comics format every week for the next six weeks.
Though I'm not that big a fan of the new format, you gotta hand it to DC for trying something different to reach new readers. There's a lot of encouraging comments from the article talkback:

"I've just made plans to go out and lunch and find a copy of this."

"Superman comics in the paper! Awesome!"

"This is exactly the kind of stuff that gets me to buy a newspaper or visit a website. I have already purchased the print edition of the USA Today. Hope to see more of this kind of stuff after this Superman serial is wrapped up!!"

"Sweet! I like that Superman and USA Today are teaming up for a new adventure. And I love the retro feel of the old-time cliffhangers! Nice art, too. I'll be back next Wednesday to see what's in store for the Man of Steel! I wonder if the rest of the comic book looks like this? This might just get an old guy to visit a comic book store for the first time in a couple decades."

"Cool, Superman in USA Today. I bet it's been 25 years since I last read a Superman comic."

This is the kind of thing the comics industry needs to do more of to reach new readers. That being said -- if one of these new readers wants to buy the Wednesday Comics, they have to find a comic book store. No comic store in your small town you say? You're more or less out of luck.

Nonetheless, this is a step in the right direction.
Ain't it cool?
No offense Stones Throw
by Lyghthouse
Jul 8th, 2009
12:02:19 PM
But you're not Kurt Vonnegut. I understand what you were going for, but its incredibly nonsensical.
Misogyny pancakes
by RenoNevada2000
Jul 8th, 2009
12:06:46 PM
Misogyny pancakes are what my wife served me every Sunday for breakfast, while wearing her Nazi pantyhose.
Invisibles was consistent
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
12:10:35 PM
You could count on a little bit of un-reality throughout he series AND it seemed controlled and purposeful when it did happen, no Laserhead is right, somewhere in X-men Morrison broke something in his head and the weird has been leaking out a little uncontrollablly ever since then. NOT hat he doesn't do great stuff now, he does, I mean, All Star, We3, Seven Soldiers, etc... amazing... No, its just that now... sometimes... the man starts from one place and then he just kind of.... wanders off. OR it seems like he's been talking to himself about an idea for a long time and its like he forgot that he didn't ever share those beginning grounding houghts with the rest of us and just jumps into the middle.
Superman in USA Today
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
12:18:59 PM
Just checked out the website. While that is cool, if you click on the menu to read other Comic articles USA has had recently there is nothing. Meaning that they haven't been talking about comics otherwise.
Wow chock-a-block with goodies this week!!
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
12:20:52 PM
1. I've said this in the talkbacks before, but Starman suffers whenever the Shade is off camera. That character has a knack of cutting through Jack's (actually, Robinson's) pretentious bullshit. I recently re-read omnibus 1 and 2, and I think the series suffered from 2 things: LAck of narritive cohesion with the 317 different one shots and flashbacks between story arcs, and Robinson's ever increasing self-satisfied pretension. He, and by extension the series, went down the rabbit hole of Robinson's own arse. I will say, no one could write a one shot like him, though. The Mikaal Tomas one shot in the 70's? The "talking with David"s? Awesomeness. Its a supremely flawed series, but still one I highly recommend reading. It will awe and frustrate you all at the same time. 2. Sounds like Robinson hasnt improved with the general disdain for "Justice!!" in this talkback. It would take a very sharp writer to write that series, as Green Lantern is right: the blood is on the hero's hands for not doing what it takes to stop the villain. However, you cant actually SAY that, or the jig is up. 3. That Cap review sucked balls, the end. 4. Morrison requires artistic control, obviously, from people he respects. It cant come from editorial, as FC showed he will just ignore the suits. It seems to have to come from a creator he respects, IE Quitely. I refuse to accept that it is just coincidence that whenever he works with Quitely, everything snaps into place.
The reason people slaver over Starman
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
12:21:36 PM
I think it must have to do with the 90s. A lot of us were in the first stages of our empowered youths, 19-22, when the book first hit, and the country was rich as fuck, music was slightly less about marketing, the movies were enjoying an independent renaissance of quality shit, and Seinfeld was on TV. It was a fun time to be a young American, and a lot of us were hipster poseurs who could connect to Jack Knight's 'list-of-quirks', as we were in the early stages of forming our adult identities. PLUS, this series was occurring at a time when most mainstream comics sucked so hard and so bad, it was refreshing just to see one that was concerned with the literary aspirations the series seemed to have. Anyway, I think it's legend has grown via nostalgia for our youths in that time: a brighter, more optimistic future, a more substantive pop culture, and a greater sense of possibility (all of which aren't necessarily products of the time, but products of youth).
The moment Starman broke was......
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
12:23:10 PM
the last issue of the "Portrait of Dorian Grey" storyline. They had been building to that for years, and that issue was hideous. The devil makes an offer, they say no, and.....thats it? The end? Terrible, and the series honestly was never the same for me from that exact moment.
Superman in USA today would have been cooler....
by CarmillaVonDoom
Jul 8th, 2009
12:25:26 PM
...about 15-20 years ago when there was an actual audience that read newspapers.
Wednesday Comics
by optimous_douche
Jul 8th, 2009
12:26:08 PM
I have words -- they will be here next week.
Laserhead: Slavering over Starman
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
12:26:17 PM
was due to the piss-poor quality of 97% of the comics of the day. A comic like that, doing something so different (and say what you want, but Starman's style, ideas, and rhythms have never really been duplicated before or since, its wholly original) will stand out like a diamond in a pile of shit. Even as flawed as it was, it still was amazing compared to what was out there. It is STILL amazing to this day in spots, those first 12-16 issues or so are gold, GOLD JERRY!! However, as the general quality rose around it, the flaws became more apparent.
so wait, on another topic.....
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
12:27:26 PM
I should know this but I dont: editorial interference with The Boys? I remember vaguely that Ennis took the title away from DC? Can someone fill me in on the whole story?
True that.
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
12:31:42 PM
Re: state of the industry when Starman first arrived. And I agree about that lame ending for the Satanic poster. And to be fair, Starman kind of paved the way for everything Johns would do in JSA, and DC's embracing the legacy nature of its heroic identities.

But I still think Jack Knight is a big fucking douche. And the series on a whole probably weighs in at something like 1 great issue for every 3 mediocre or outright bad ones.

Goose The boys
by optimous_douche
Jul 8th, 2009
12:36:13 PM
As I understand the story, it was someone at Warner Brothers that read the book and pulled the plug.

They didn't want to tarnish their overall corporate image.

As a fan of comics and someone who works in corporate branding, I can see both sides of the coin here.

Will somebody else review Cap, please?
by minos7
Jul 8th, 2009
12:37:49 PM
I'd really like to read an actual AICN review of Cap Reborn, rather than seven paragraphs of editorial masturbation. Thank you.
The Boys
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
12:43:13 PM
Yeah, from what I read, someone at DC thought the book was shit (rightly so) and wanted it cancelled. OThers looked at it and went: "eh... yeah... pretty much." and so they cancelled it and I found myself agreeing with overly controlling corporate assholes. Ennis then took the crappy thing elsewhere, where it continues on sucktastically to this day.
CarmillaVonDoom
by Snookeroo
Jul 8th, 2009
12:45:04 PM
I agree, newspapers are a dying industry - however, the article and strip are also in their on-line version. And frankly, I don't think the Wednesday Comics thing will fly. In a society of instant gratification, who's going to wait a week to get a singular page of story?
What I do find encouraging is that DC is trying to bring in new readers outside the fanboy base. Wednesday Comics is an advertising tool, and not much else.
However, if they want Wednesday Comics to be a successful marketing vehicle, they need to find a way to get it into outlets that aren't comic book stores. And, just as importantly, they need to practically give it away -- this should not be something DC makes money off of directly, it should be a loss leader.
I'm not sure why I originally missed Starman
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
12:47:54 PM
I mean, I was working in a comic shop at the time, buying Hellboy and Preacher and Astro Cityand the Invisibles and starting to take notice of Warren Ellis with his Stormwatch and Transmet. Also, I was totally against pretty much all of marvel at the time with its 3000 X titles, with Onslaught and Forceworks and Heroes Reborn an Liefeld and all that shit. I was actually reading more DC than Marvel at the time... I don't know how I missed it, but honestly, I think it was the slight whiff of cliched douchiness coming off Jack. I mean, I dressed and looked just like him, but he was written by some older dude and I was authentic... heh... whatever... the point is, I don't know how I missed it at the time, but I di and now I'm not sure if I can go back again... kindof like I would never grow another goatee if my life depended on it...
Series7
by Snookeroo
Jul 8th, 2009
12:49:02 PM
My point exactly -- there is no conversation about comics otherwise in the general public, and that's not good for the industry.
People have to know your product exists if you expect them to buy it. And, they have to have easy access to it.
Snook
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
12:53:34 PM
I at least thought USA today would review a TBP or graphic novel from time to time. Fucking Entertainment weekly does comic reviews.
Comic trailers
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
12:53:55 PM
DC and Marvel should attach book trailers, maybe even post that LCS finder number: 1-800-comic-book, or something to the beginning of their all their big comic book films. "What more Batman check out this story of an aging Batman coming out of retirment... blah, blah, blah." Maybe not motion comics, actually please no, NOT motion comics, but a synopsis or two about some cool stories, with some pictures and where to find them.
Frank Quitely=Quite Frankly
by nofate
Jul 8th, 2009
12:56:18 PM
ha ha, clever *sigh*
Where STARMAN fell apart for me:
by SleazyG.
Jul 8th, 2009
12:58:09 PM
All that stupid-ass outer space shit that lasted like a year. God, it was awful.
douche - Wednesday Comics
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
12:59:31 PM
Do you really think they are worth $4?
Joenathan
by Snookeroo
Jul 8th, 2009
01:00:32 PM
Joenathan
That makes entirely too much sense, and it's far too simple. Get the hell out of here with that kind of crazy talk.

Series7
I'm assuming DC paid a fair coin to have the series inserted into USA today.
Comic trailers
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:01:23 PM
They should remake those cheesy READ! posters from the 90's. You remember they were in the library, they had famous actors reading a book and it said read (i think Morgan Freeman did one). They should do new ones with the stars of the new movies (Morgan Freeman again) and put them in Movie theaters, saying read comics.
WEDNESDAY COMICS
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:02:40 PM
The only comic I'll read printed on newspaper is Dilbert, for free.
Marvel Divas
by Homer Sexual
Jul 8th, 2009
01:03:28 PM
Totally deceptive marketing, lots of questionable decisions made, yet....I liked it.

A Campbell sexpot cover, but an edgy, not sexy art style inside? What a bait and switch.

Firestar and Captain Marvel don't fit with Black Cat and Hellcat, but at least they are getting some exposure, which they weren't before. I have always loved Monica Rambeau, and am glad to see her here. Firestar is here as a plot device.

While I found the entire comic very entertaining, it's hard for me to imagine it being a success. The T&A crowd, of which I am a member, would prefer "Marvel Kitties" with Tigra and someone else, White Tiger or whoever, getting all sexy and ridiculous. The fleshed-out-female character fans, which I also am, are probably not hugely represented in the comic buying public.

I actually think if Deodato or Hughes or someone like that were drawing it, this book would do well. Must. Have. Sexy. Art. The sexy art would turn off actual women, but how many of them really buy comics, we all ask?

Series - Wednesday Comics.
by optimous_douche
Jul 8th, 2009
01:04:34 PM
When Didio asked me at Wizard World what I think of a Magog comic I said I never shit on a piece until I read it.

I'm going to hold true to that. When I get home this afternoon, I'll decide if it was worth it.

I mean from a paper quality -- big fuck no. This was how they justified the price hikes back in the 90s. Now we have reverted to something worse but we are paying more.

hey, me thinks I have an intro now for next week

Snookeroo
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:05:28 PM
Probably, but you think with all the hoopla about comic book movies these past couple of years you think they'd have some sort of comic book/graphic novel section.
Frank Quitely=Quite Frankly
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
01:06:21 PM
Yes, apparently this is where his artist's name came from, but here's the thing... Whats the joke? How is it "clever?" I mean, I don't think its stupid or anything, I just don't understand why everytime someone mentions this, people go: "Oh... ha,hah, clever..." Why? Why is it clever? Is this just a joke that NO ONE actually gets, but that everyone PRETENDS to? Someone please explain it to me.
Speaking of comic sales
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:07:05 PM
Is there any sort of tracking system for that? Like a top ten bestselling comics of the week? Some sort of Neilsen rating? Box office Mojo?
Marvel Divas/Gotham Sirens
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:11:37 PM
Artest. Please go review the whole Wonderland series (and pretty much everything else) over at Zenescope Entertainment before you put pen to paper on issues two.

Since I don't think you are trying to create strong female archetypes to atract more female readers with these titles, then with such bad art I wonder why bother doing them at all?

Anyone seen this contest over at CBR?
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:13:06 PM
You could get killed in a issue of Berserker, that would be pretty cool.

http://tinyurl.com/mrd8sv

Homer
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
01:13:13 PM
I'd be a fan of MArvel Divas, if it was a well written character piece of the ladies living and dating and tra-la-la-ing in the city and occasionally fighting villians and/or monsters. I'm a big fan of Blue Monday and Scott Pilgrim, it can be done and done really well, but from my perusal, it looks like a shallow knock off of exactly what you'd expect:

"Oh shoes are awesome!

"Oh boys, are mean!"

"blah, blah, blah FASHION!"

Yawn. No tits and no depth? whats the point? Who is the market?
Artist*
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
01:13:41 PM
The Horns of Nimon isn't ass
by Meglos
Jul 8th, 2009
01:13:57 PM
It may have ridiculous costumes, a lead villain who's so over the top, and a Tom Baker who's ad-libbing every other line, but its still more entertaining than some of new Who, including "Rose". Watch it again. With a box of wine.
Sirens Vs. Divas
by Homer Sexual
Jul 8th, 2009
01:19:39 PM
Both sexy books with sexy ladies, but otherwise very different.

Ivy and Harley have a long-standing ambiguous relationship most of us love. Catwoman has been a third wheel for a while. The whole thing totally makes sense, but needs better art.

Divas is just a gimmick, albeit one that entertained me, throwing together some random women. But that is kind of how lots of team books start. So I'll check out a few issues.

Divas
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
01:23:20 PM
I like the idea of the everday lives of the "Also rans" and D-lister superheros. Maybe its like a TMZ or something and I just want them to talk about the time Thor farted in the Quinjet and they had to throw their costume away. I just think Diva needs a writer with a stronger voice in order to succeed.
Squashua you're insane
by StrokerX
Jul 8th, 2009
01:27:41 PM
The Luna Brothers are GODS! C'mon...The Sword is my #1 book every month. I even got my roommate into it. He gets cised everytime I go to the comic store thinkin i'll come back with The Sword or No Hero...he's also digging Old Man Logan.

I'll admit there are some talky parts in Girls...but overall their shit is great.

And is Reborn just Slaughterhouse Five?
by StrokerX
Jul 8th, 2009
01:29:03 PM
I remember something about being unstuck in time....war...somethin.
gooseud, I dunno about optimus' theory
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
01:40:09 PM
Seems to me that DC editorial worked with Ennis up to the point they mutually agreed they couldn't publish a pedophile version of Batman. They didn't "pull the plug" as much as they thanked Garth for his time, offered him directions to a new employer along with a good reference, and asked him to clear out his locker.

Garth has always said the folks at DC (Wildstorm) were good to him and didn't want to see him censored anymore than he wanted to censor himself. It seemed fairly amicable.

One wonders what might have become of THE BOYS with stricter editorial restraint. Maybe no HEROGASM, but, really, cartoon superhero genitalia is something, after allo, the world might be better off without.

I said might.

Goosedud
by optimous_douche
Jul 8th, 2009
01:43:22 PM
Subtitles might be right, I was just recounting what I heard/read.

Since I do work in corporate branding though the rationale is pretty sound.

FUCK CAPTAIN AMERICA REBORN
by DrMorbius
Jul 8th, 2009
01:43:44 PM
FUCK THAT AND FUCK MARVEL TOO!!

Does anyone remember Captain America White? Supposed to be a 6 issue series by Loeb and Sale.

Number 0 came out, I dunno, like a year ago, so I'm predicting it will be completed in 2014!

FUCK YOU MARVEL, you killed Spiderman with that BRAND NEW DAY SHIT, and now this!

FUCK OFF AND DIE, no more money from me, except CA White, if it ever comes out again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Fucking Entertainment weekly does comic reviews."
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
01:46:02 PM
Still. That's not a reason you should be reading "Entertainment Weekly."

You only read that when you're at the dentist's and the copies of "Sports Illustrated" and "National Geographic" are already being used.

Wait--
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
01:46:49 PM
did you just say a Loeb-scripted book would make you buy Marvel again?

Your priorities might be in the wrong place, my friend.

Apparently they were........
by DrMorbius
Jul 8th, 2009
01:51:21 PM
DrMorbius feels strongly
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
01:57:21 PM
I don't read CAP, so I don't care that much.

But, I must say, with what I know of the past fifty issues and a storyline that seemed to do the impossible - ie: return a once-thought dead sidekick to the land of the living in a way that not only made sense, but also, kicked alot of readers' happy arses - I sure wouldn't be pleased with warmed-over science fiction concepts, either.

Yeah, Kirby was great, but forty years have passed.

That's why I can't disagree any more strongly with opti's assesment of the current Batman. It's not "new" - it's 60's pop dressed up with 00's younger-skewing, twenty-something pouting. Great, if you like that stuff. I don't.

I agree with SleazyG
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
02:02:47 PM
The outer space crap went nowhere in STARMAN. When you expected that would be the whole point of a STAR man, you know?

That, and Robinson pissing off Harris so the artist left. How could the replacements not have been terrible, by comparison.

Series7
by Snookeroo
Jul 8th, 2009
02:03:03 PM
Comic book sales:

http://tinyurl.com/n9fbkj
Captain America: Reborn = Slaughterhouse Five
by LaserPants
Jul 8th, 2009
02:05:08 PM
Unstuck in time! Will he also experience the bombing of Dresden and some outer space conundrums? I fucking hope so!
Yeah, but
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
02:24:22 PM
Thing is, I never took the "unstuck in time" thing from SLAUGHTERHOUSE as literal. I chalked the whole outer space stuff up to post-traumatic stress.

Then again, I never read Vonnegut; I got all my understanding from a movie.

Snookeroo
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
02:37:27 PM
Thanks man thats a cool site.
I'm reading Slaughterhouse 5 atm
by OGoncho
Jul 8th, 2009
02:42:23 PM
Nice coincidence, but that review still made no goddamn sense to me.
Vonnegut pissed me off...
by Dingleberry Jones
Jul 8th, 2009
02:42:38 PM
after he tried to rip off Thornton Mellon on that paper he wrote for him.
Subtitlesoff, Starman Art
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
02:44:18 PM
Yeah Sub, thats when 80% of the people I've talked to think Starman went instantly off the rails, when Tony Harris left...... which Robinson, based on his comments in the Omnibus's, is STILL bitter about, against all odds. "FUCK Tony Harris!!! He was never important!!! I'm the genius, dammit!! ME!! ME!!!"
Just me..?
by fletch93
Jul 8th, 2009
02:44:45 PM
Is it just me or does that Anna Mercury cover look like a rip-off of Joseph M. Linsner's Dawn?? If not its trying really hard to be.
Wait what?
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
02:45:43 PM
Is that comment a few lines up supposed to read "I'm reading Slaughterhouse ass to mouth"? If so, either you've been reading too much Herogasm or there is an interesting story to be told here.
Damn
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
02:46:32 PM
Didn't realize that Flash Rebirth was so popular.
Green Lantern, we hardly knew ye
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
02:49:29 PM
So the final chapter of the prelude to Blackest Night comes out.....in a comic which has recieved orgasmic critical reviews......and by all accounts kicks ass......and no one cares. Remember when you couldnt come in this talkback for a year straight without every other comment being about Sinestro Corps? What happened? Did myself and Joe's light hearted yet sincere boxing gloves comments chase off the GL fans? Is no one reading it anymore? Did they wait too long to kick off Blackest Night, or maybe they didnt wait long enough? Event fatigue? Anyone? The fact that we could be this far into the talkback and not have a single comment (its true, not even one) posted about a GL Corps review is surprising to say the least.
STOP!
by Berserkr
Jul 8th, 2009
02:52:48 PM
Not reviewing Thor books, they come out once every two months for gosh dern sakes the least you could do is review it when it does, considering its Marvels best book. And especially considering JMS will soon be leaving it.
Ass to mouth?
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
02:53:25 PM
That must be a REALLY crappy book...
The Boys
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
02:53:28 PM
For those who don't know in the talkback, I work in running estate sales and have the opportunity pretty regularly to buy up big chunks of comics for pennies on the dollar (thus me randomly reading the entire run of the god-awful Initiative book, for example).....so based on a recent buy, I'm conducting an experiment: I'm going to read The Boys front to back. Yep, all 29 issues. Why, you ask? To see if it sucks as much as I think it does. I do this so you all dont have to. No need to thank me. After I finish The Boys, it'll be time for.......drum roll please.....Planetary, front to back. I want to see if Planetary's issue to issue coherence is as utterly unintelligible as I remember it to be.
Joe
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
02:54:25 PM
Dont give Ennis any ideas.
gooseud, re: Green Lantern
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
02:56:08 PM
Maybe it's just the calm before the storm.

Believe me, when they start unleashing ideas as idiotic as the Black Lantern Flying Graysons, people will begin to talk.

Goose
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
02:56:54 PM
I made direct fun of GL in the last talkback and there wasn't a single taker. Not one. I think everyone has tasted the rainbow, at this point, and found it lacking. An how could they not? This story has been building for over 15 years or so now.

Also, boxing gloves? come on.
At This Minute
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
02:57:20 PM
Jebus, guys.

Where are your heads at?

:-)

Goose Part deux
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
02:59:54 PM
Reading Boys front to back? ...good luck. I bet you can't do it. By issue four you will have rolled your eyes so much they will have come loose and fallen out.

As for Planetary... I love that book, so mark my words: If you do not love it, prepare yourself for ENDLESS debating! You have been warned.
I'm on record
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:02:28 PM
for hating superheroes, so I enjoy THE BOYS. The humor is often juvenile, but we live in the time of dick and tit jokes.

I also love PLANETARY.

It'll be fun watching the two of you type insults at each other.

Or, you can both gang up on me.

It's all good.

I hope
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:03:28 PM
everyone read my Planetary warning in the voice style of the Monarch... for full effect.
"Taste the Rainbow"
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:04:19 PM
Re: Green Lantern and his mood rings.

That's pretty funny.

VENTURE BROTHERS!!!
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:06:04 PM
Come on late September. Come on.
Damn
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
03:06:32 PM
Marvel has had the number one comic since Jan 07 until April 09. The last company to have a number one comic outside of DC or Marvel was Image with Masters of the Universe in Nov 02.
He-Man!??!
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:08:46 PM
He-man had a number one comic?
Venture Bros is back in September?
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:09:37 PM
I thought we had to wait till November, maybe even 2010?
Green Lantern
by Series7
Jul 8th, 2009
03:10:18 PM
Does not interest me.
All my posts
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:10:42 PM
are intended to be read in the style of th Monarch. Go ahead, try and you will see the truth... oh yes... you will see the truth.
Goose & Joenathan
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
03:11:59 PM
Like someone else said, when Blackest Night hits it will probably consume the talkback.

As far as your jokes, I think you went to the well one too many times. You'll have to come up with some new material, green boxing gloves just won't cut it anymore. Maybe you should jump on the green folding chair that will be making its appearence in the up coming GL animated movie.

Last I heard was late September, but that was a while ago.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:12:03 PM
2010?

Now I'm very sad.

Sadder than Mariah Carey's voice at a Michael Jackson memorial.

Late to the party, so I'll start with DIVAS
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:12:55 PM
God that looks like crap. Number one reason - having people act out of character. I hate that in a comic book, just so you can go stick with your high concept idea of "Sex in the CIty" for super-heroes. You throw Special Agent Scully into "SAC" and she isn't going to act like those twats - hell, she'll leave even before she finishes her martini.

And Monica Rambeau is the most fucked over character in Marvel comics. Once leader of the Avengers and arguably it's most powerful member, she has since been a parody of herself on Nextwave and Divas. Man, is this how to treat a Roger Stern & John Romita Jr. creation? Give her back her old powers and code name Captain Marvel already.

I hate to use offensive language, but the only reason she feel to the wayside and had the name Captain Marvel stripped from her is a bunch of loser fanboys, editors and writers in the late 80's and 90's couldn't handle a "nigger-cunt" being the caretaker of that esteemed name. Hopefully we have grown up enough to handle it now.

New material?
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:13:48 PM
Tell that to Green Lantern... green boxing gloves won't cut it indeed
Morrison and Quitely's NEW X-MEN
by Prof_Ender
Jul 8th, 2009
03:13:59 PM
Was garbage.
Pro wrassling in the GL comic?
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:15:19 PM
Green folding chairs?

Hope Sting-Not-the-Singer comes out of the rafters with his green baseball bat and puts the green smack down.

Sting's dead right? Black Lantern Sting, see?

If he's not dead, does my joke still work, sorta?

Hey! HEY!
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:16:04 PM
Nextwave was awesome
Certainly that's why I wanted her stripped of the title
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:17:11 PM
of Captain Marvel. Though I'd never use such language.

And I say all this an African-American wife and mother.

AS an African-American wife and mother, I mean
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:17:47 PM
Continentalop
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:18:39 PM
For someone who professes to hate offensive language, you can sure wield it like Excalibur, my friend.

Even I would've self-censored "n!@@er-cun+."

No Subtitles, you joke died
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:18:41 PM
Its Black Lantern Joke
Planetary
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:19:32 PM
I agree Joe, great comic except for one thing for me - the damn Zero-Town. I hated how they had it be an American concentration camp for 50's commie types.

Yes, I know about the Black List. And I know about the Tuskegee experiments. But God am I sick of these ridiculous Nazi-like experiments the have the American government perform in comic books. America has made some mistakes, lots of mistakes, but believe me when never have done anything as remotely as bad as that in the last century.

The Boys, however, is absolute shit. I ripped on Millar last week, but Ennis annoys me just as much. Both are "Batman ass-raped in prison" kind of guys.

Morrison's X-men = garbage?
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:19:54 PM
Bah! Thats all I have to say to that! Bah!
Fear it's wrath!
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:20:03 PM
No love for Snejbjerg?
by bottleimp
Jul 8th, 2009
03:20:30 PM
In some ways I like Peter Snejbjerg's art on the latter portion of STARMAN better than Harris'-- including the space arc. Snejbjerg's slightly catooney Eisner-esque designs gave the series a little boost of energy that I found lacking in a lot of Tony Harris' obviously-copied-from-photo-re ference drawings.
Am I the only one who always thought
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:21:43 PM
Continentalop had a "t" in his handle after the "l"?
bottleimp
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:22:50 PM
Really?

Really?

Continentalop
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:24:06 PM
Well, there were the Japanese American Internment camps and while, sure, they didn't experiment on anyone, certainly the stripping of their constiutionally gaurunteed rights is just as bad. I mean, those rights are what makes America, america.

Also, a lot of those Nazi scientists were brought to America after the war and had their work financed by the governement.

Either way, though, I think Science City Zero was more Randall Dowling than U.S. Government and HE was at least evil, right?
I got no problem with Snejberg, actually
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:25:02 PM
It's just around this point that the main character and the writing become really, really annoying for me.
You're right Suntitles_Off
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:26:27 PM
I should used the ** approach for half the letters, especially the vowels or double consonants . Like A**h*l*. My apologies.
Seriously, though, if Batman were ever in prison
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:26:49 PM
I mean, you know?

Even the guards might line up for a piece o' that.

At least the gay ones.

One thing I did not much like in Planetary
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:27:38 PM
The last issue-- the way to beat Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman, the intricately laid master plan, was to drop them into a big hole? That fucks them up? Really? Hah! Surprise! I made a giant earth god rise up and create a crater into which you drop! I mean, a couple hundred ways they could have gotten out of that sprang to mind, and it really dampened their menace to me. They'd been portrayed as these untouchable masterminds, and, yeesh, that's the endgame?
What?
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:27:44 PM
Excuse me, but Batman is a Pitcher, not a Catcher! Come on!
Did Continentalop
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:28:14 PM
Just call me an a$$h@l*?
Laserhead
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:31:43 PM
They were returned to their Master, who I can onl assume did the actual fucking up, since he was basically Darkseid. Besides, even if you didn't like that one, the one between Jaquita and John Stone was pretty bad ass.

Plus, there's one more issue coming.
Hey, I still liked Planetary Joe
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:34:53 PM
But it definitely had that left-wing British "American Government is evil" vibe to it.

And remember, Randall Dowling was working for the US Government back then. Artemis was a government project.

As for the Nazi scientist being brought back to the US, I think that is something people exaggerate as some horrible sin we did. Yes, we brought back Nazi scientist - what were we supposed to do? Try them while the Russians where assembly a bunch themselves to be used to develop weapons? People seem to forget we lost hundred of thousands of lives in WWII, I can imagine our government saying we are going out of our way to make sure we have a leg up if we have to have another war.

Joe
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:38:40 PM
They were fucked up BEFORE they were returned to the Darkseid-guy. At least on panel, it looks like they're falling out of a portal and they're already fucked up. Which means, again, dropping them in a big hole won the day.
Nope Subtitles_Off
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:42:16 PM
I was just giving an example. I'll wait until you do something worthy before I call you an asshole.
Continentalop
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:42:33 PM
As for the Nazi scientist being brought back to the US, I think "that is something people exaggerate as some horrible sin we did. Yes, we brought back Nazi scientist - what were we supposed to do?" -- exactly... there's the rationale for the sin... I'm not saying that we were nessecarily wrong or that the potential good/benefits outweighed the bad/moral responsibility, I'm just saying... there's the beginning of the slippery slope that ends up in Testing out Invisibility potions on prisoners, homos, and commies...
Laserhead
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:43:27 PM
It was a 50 mile deep hole from a shift ship, so maybe because it was a really big hole...?
Jebus, Continentalop
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:46:17 PM
Did you not read my posts on the Michael jackson mourning thread?

What's a guy gotta do around here to merit asshole status? Insult Kevin Smith?

I'm willing. I mean it.

I bet there were some sharp rocks too...
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:47:15 PM
at the bottom of that hole. Plus, I bet their knees were scraped to shit.
Everybody hates Robin
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:49:07 PM
And I got to admit, I prefer Batman without Robin. But to be honest, Robin makes Batman. Without Robin, especially in the Golden Age, Batman would never have stuck out as much as he did. When he first appeared, Batman was just rip off of the Shadow, the Spider, the Gray Seal and about a dozen other pulp heroes. Robin made Batman into an actual "Super-Hero".

Of course, nowadays we are not buried under Pulp style vigilantes so we would like Batman to fill that void. But truthfully Batman AND Robin have been on the comic book scene longer than just Batman has.

Joenathan
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:51:23 PM
was your last post still on the "Batman in prison bending over for the Penguin" topic?

I'm confused.

big hole
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:51:25 PM
The invisible analog can project force-fields. Dowling can stretch.

Not that we need to belabor the point.

But we never did experiment on them
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:52:38 PM
Despite taking Nazi scientist, we still never did carry out Nazi-like experiments on prisoners and undesirables. I guess we hosed off some of the grease off of that slope.

Best human experiment in comics = Luke Cage. I can easily see us using volunteers from prison.

Did AICN just get hit with a Korean virus-bomb?
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
03:52:46 PM
Anybody else keep getting re-directed to an installation site?
Laserhead
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:54:18 PM
The scene was ghost written by Slott, so they were talking about using their powers the whole down and ended up chatting too long, so... splat
Redirected
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:54:52 PM
me too. It goes away after a bit
Dowling can stretch...his mind.
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
03:54:57 PM
He can lay "mind-control eggs" in other people's minds. Not literal eggs, but that is how they described his mind control.
Continentalop
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:56:04 PM
We never experimented on them...that we know of... du, du, DUH!
Continentalop, there's a flaw in your theory
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:56:46 PM
Everybody LOVES Robin. You and I (and Tim Sale) are the only ones left who hate him.

In fact, I assert, the whole "Batman is a douchebag" consensus that has reigned among comics readers for, say, ten years results from the identification with the endless line of teeny sidekicks and Bruce Wayne's perceived impatience with them.

And now, as a result, we have the original pixie-booted dope running around in daddy's clothes with the spawn of Satan at his side.

And I haven't yet heard anybody say they don't love it. (Myself, exempted.)

I never quite got that Dowling power
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
03:56:49 PM
and I don't think Ellis did either, since he never really did anything with it.
Laserhead, that's been happening all day.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
03:58:11 PM
Who hates Robin?
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
03:58:23 PM
Unless you are talking about Damien then I have to say, yeah I hate him.
Subtitles, true
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
04:00:08 PM
But Batman without Robin is just The Shadow or The Spider. And those guys were first, so that would make Batman just a cheap knockoff without ol pixie boots.
I like Damien
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
04:00:32 PM
I wish he wasn't 10, because thats almost too hard to reconcile in my mind, but I enjoy him being a rude, know-it-all little bastard. Especially when played against Dick. Its good and it works, and its especially important because their dynamic needs to be different. It has to be, othewise what's really changed?
Mind control eggs.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:03:27 PM
See? That's a far better idea for updating Starro than making him a barbarian that looks as if he just stepped off a 70's prog-rock album cover.

The giant starfish thing releases creatures to lay eggs in people's minds, which hatch and go all-Aliens on mankind.

Gheesh, Continentalop, you make it look easy.

Dick and Damien.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:09:06 PM
Jebus.

How about this?

You find out you have a biological son. Granted, kid's mom is something of a bitch, and you want nothing to do with her family, but. And you've got your own family issues since you lost your father when you were ten.

So, instead of, say, taking the kid fishing, you dress him up in circus tights and send him out to chase psychopaths.

That's not an interesting enough angle.

So, you bring in the older adopted-step-brother for a creepy sleep-over?

Really?

I don't like Robin
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
04:13:46 PM
The 'Batman is a douchebag' consensus derives from the way the character's been written since "The Dark Knight Returns"-- a paranoid, humorless prick with a one-note 'I am the night' characterization.
Damien is 10? Truly?
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:16:02 PM
Before some geek tells me "but he was trained among the League of Assassins," may I just repeat:

Superheroes are stupid.

Gee, bet Two-Face is really gonna feel like a pussy when he gets his ass handed him by a ten-year-old.

Batman should be a paranoid humorless prick
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
04:17:45 PM
He can't be happy, he should be mean and unrelenting in his puruit of total justice.
Yeah, Damien being 10 is fuckin' retarded.
by SleazyG.
Jul 8th, 2009
04:17:51 PM
But then, so is the very existence of Damien, so...
Laserhead, that's not the character
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:18:08 PM
That's the writer.

No reason to throw Bruce Wayne under the bus because you think your readers would revolt if he pats one of the kids on the head.

Jason Todd is back in an all-new Red Hood costume!
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:20:33 PM
And, I bet optimus_douche will love the ink off those pages.

Maybe not, though. Since Quitely will be off B&R by then, maybe the time'll be right to bash Morrison again.

Damien
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
04:22:00 PM
My biggest problem with Damien is that he is a clone and therefore disposable. As soon as they bring Bruce back, when ever that will be, and they will do away with the character so he is pointless.

Plus the fact the Bruce already hads 3 sons, Dick, Jason and Tim each with their own intersting character dynamic again making Damien pointless.

The bestt hing I think they could have done with him was if Jason had become Batman (or possible shared the mantle with Dick) and Damien died on his watch. Putting Jason in that role reversal would have been interesting for that character than bieng crazy or being an asshole.

I agree with SleazyG repeatedly, today.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:22:28 PM
But we ain't gonna cuddle.
I'm not throwing him under the bus
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
04:23:14 PM
Not at all. I think Bruce Wayne's the greatest alter ego ever. I just hate that version of the character, and they did it with and without Robin for a long, long time.

I've come to realize I much, much prefer Batman as Sherlock Holmes+James Bond+The Shadow+Bruce Lee. Much more interesting than Dirty Harry in a bat outfit. Actually, I take that back. Harry Calahan had a sense of humor.

This is why I liked a lot of Morrison's Bruce Wayne work in his run.

Damien is a clone?
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:24:45 PM
What? You mean Bruce didn't impregnate Talia in "Son of the Demon"?

He just spilled a little of himself on her skirt? Something like that?

Wow, mention Planetary
by gooseud
Jul 8th, 2009
04:26:32 PM
and the whole place goes berserk, BERSERK I TELL YOU! Heres my issue with Planetary: the individual issues, when taken individually, are genius. For example, say you give someone the Monster Island issue. Awesome. They would read it and be like, I love this book! These characters are awesome, I want to know more about them! Who are they, what are their goals? Why do they do what they do? What are their powers? Weaknesses? Etc? The problem is, most of that stuff never came. It was just Ellis throwing out awesome idea after awesome idea, with absolutely no connective tissue between issues. I felt (even more then Slott's Initiative) that I was only reading 70% of the story. Planetary literally feels like it is missing pages. That 70% kicks ass, but......we shall see, you get my Planetary review 2 weeks from now when I can refresh my memory on it by going front to back. Next week is The Boys. 3 weeks from now will probably be.....wait for it.......LOXG.
Damien clone
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
04:28:05 PM
NOBODY is clear on this point-- for a while, Son of the Demon was considered Elseworlds (a retroactive label). Then Morrison introduced Damien, but he was said to have been artificially created (or at least aged) in a laboratory, but THEN in #666, in a one page re-cap of Damien's origin, it shows Batman and Talia fucking (or getting ready to) and seems to say that he was conceived naturally.

I don't think anybody at DC knows exactly how Damien was made.

The Secret Origin of Dick Grayson and Robin
by Continentalop
Jul 8th, 2009
04:29:46 PM
Bruce Waynes parents died when he was nine. Since then he has wondered the world studying science, forensics, martial arts, detective work, disguise…and acrobatics.

When Bruce Wayne was 16 he joined up with a circus under an alias so he could learn acrobatics. While there he met a young girl named Mary, who was about two-years older than Bruce and was just starting out as a circus arcobat as well. She had a boyfriend already, another circus acrobat named John Grayson. Despite that, she and Bruce became friends and soon lovers. However, she became pregnant and told Bruce about this. Bruce realized there was only one thing to do…and that was slip away in the middle of the night. She didn’t know his real name and would have no way of tracking him down, and Bruce wasn’t going to give up his war on crime because of some circus floozy.

Confused and scared, Mary convinced her boyfriend John that he was the father. John believed her and the two go married. Nine months later Richard Grayson was born.

8 years passed, and Bruce Wayne was now in Gotham fighting crime as Batman. But something was wrong. He had dedicated his whole life to this goal and now felt empty. He felt alone.

As fate would have it, as he was feeling down he passed a poster advertising Haley’s Circus and showing the star attractions, “The Flying Graysons.” Bruce Wayne instantly recognized Mary and John, but the young boy caused him to take a step back. The boy in the poster looked just like Bruce Wayne did about the time his parents were murdered.

Being a detective, Bruce Wayne did some research and discovered that Richard was 8 years off. Being good at math Wayne deduced who his real father was and made a surprise visit to Mary. She was shocked at seeing her ex-lover appear out of the blue, and even more shocked when he revealed that his real name was Bruce Wayne, famous Gotham millionaire, and that he knew he was Dick’s father. Bruce told Mary that he wanted the young man to live with him, but Mary refused and told Bruce that would happen over her dead body.

“Fine” thought Bruce. That night he went to the Circus big top and coated the trapeze ropes with acid. The next day, during Mary and John’s big finale, the ropes broke and the two plummeted to their death.

Knowing that Boss Zucco’s men had already made threats against the circus. Batman used the murder to frame him for this crime and then approaches Dick Grayson, offering him a chance at revenge. Dick readily accepts, and becomes Batman’s sidekick in the process, wearing an old costume that Bruce Wayne once wore.

Now Batman lives out his fantasy life – fighting crime but also resuming his relationship with his father. Batman, however, fills the role of his father, even wearing a costume that resembles the one his father once wore for Halloween, and Robin plays the part of a young Bruce Wayne living care-free and happy. And when Dick Grayson got to old, Bruce Wayne discarded him and found another surrogate son (notice they all resemble each other, and all look like a young Bruce Wayne) for him to continually live out this fantasy with.

Batman can have fun
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
04:29:49 PM
Pre '84 he was quite the wit. And he swam in pussy all through the 70s.
Subtitles_Off
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
04:30:18 PM
Damien was grown in a tank and is not the same character from the Son of the Demon story.
Green Lantern #43
by OBESE_WAN_KENOBI
Jul 8th, 2009
04:31:17 PM
Just read it after getting back from my LCS... If this is just the prelude issue to Blackest Night, color me excited. Because that was pretty damn spectacular. I never knew Black Hand could be such a badass.
I agree with Laserhead, to a degree.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:32:09 PM
And, yes, I realize I'm spending way-too much time on here today, being agreeable.

I think Batman as "hairy chested love God," a-la James Bond with Sherlock Holmes and a dose of The Shadow is the way to go. As long as the stories aren't crap. Bruce Wayne has been written that way, and he's been written like a bitter Harry Callahan. I don't think he has to be either or.

That's what I thought we were supposed to be getting from Morrison, because, um, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID HE'D BE GIVING US. Instead, we got a drooling, lobotomized version of Adam West.

Then Morrison somewhere got the idea that it would be wicked to tell a story where Batman absolutely fails. But, to hedge his bets, he makes it not-really-Batman.

Mark me, Damien's gonna die, and Dick's gonna pout, and Bruce is still going to be written badly once he returns from Jurassic Park.

Goose! You are wrong!
by Joenathan
Jul 8th, 2009
04:32:14 PM
Everyone's motivations and backstory was told. dilettante!
Continentalop
by Mr.FTW
Jul 8th, 2009
04:34:52 PM
Did you find that Batman and Robin origin at Frank Miller's house?
Yeah, I read Morrison up through RIP
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:38:32 PM
I totally missed the "grown in a lab" bit.

That makes the whole thing even worse!

Say what you will against The Dark Knight era, but I prefer most of it to any of the comic-book, sci-fi superhero babble. A human who develops nearly superhuman abilities in pursuit of a singular goal. His development. His goal. Once anybody can be Batman, no one can be Batman, paraphrasing THE INCREDIBLES and replacing "special" with "Batman."

A "realistic" human. That all went out the window with miraculous back healing, ressurrected sidekicks and, now, a sperm-shaped flying batmobile.

I'm old.

You can't find anything at Frank Miller's house.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:41:47 PM
You can't get through the boxes of sex toys and the full-length mirrors.
And neither Chuck Dixon nor Alan Grant ever
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
04:45:46 PM
wrote Batman as a one-note humorless prick.

They did, however, contribute to KNIGHTFALL, the plague and the earthquake.

Nobody's perfect.

What would have made R.I.P. work
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
04:58:57 PM
and brought Morrison's whole run into focus would have been to include pages from the original stories he was referencing, maybe re-doing the dialogue, but sprinkle the actual pages into the story as flashbacks, like Alan Moore in Supreme. Instead all those stories are collected a year after the fact in a book called 'The Black Casebook', and the stories are of course terrible, and there's no real reason to revisit them other than in bits and pieces to add depth and coherence to Morrison's run. But it should have been done during the run itself.
I liked Morrison's Bruce Wayne, too
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
05:00:00 PM
He was lighter and getting laid again. Fucking a woman he KNEW was waiting to betray him to this organization called 'The Black Glove.'
I am LOVING all the James Robinson stuff lately.
by Hercules
Jul 8th, 2009
05:02:13 PM
That last issue (of "Superman"?) with Mon-El zipping around the world exploring all those obscure corners of the DC universe was adorable!

Much love also to Morrison's work on Batman. Nice to see DC's most important ongoing titles in the hands of truly great writers for a change.

Nah. That wouldn't have worked either.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
05:13:25 PM
Would've improved a really terrible story, but we're just splitting hairs.

Morrison's idea, as he initially explained it, was to compress the entirety of Batman's written history into a single character's timeline. In other words, all the goofy 60's stuff actually happened to Post-Crisis, Dark Knight Bruce Wayne in some way, either physically or as hallucination induced by experiments conducted during his training.

It's a bold idea. Ambitious and admirable. But more than likely impossible.

So, he punted it and punted Bruce Wayne completely so he can tell his "flawed Faux Batman" story.

I ain't buying it any more than I bought that prose Joker story.

Yeah, but, Hercules - you're an SNL fan.
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 8th, 2009
05:15:48 PM
Is that show still on?
The prose Joker story did suck
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
05:18:01 PM
Mostly due to Morrison's really horrible prose, but if it had been a scripted book, it would have been great. I like R.I.P. I think the only thing wrong with it were the expectations created beforehand; it's a cool story with great action, though the ending could have used a definitive reveal of the villain's identity (but I've read that's on the way in Batman and Robin).
I'm glad Herc is here
by Laserhead
Jul 8th, 2009
05:19:19 PM
and I don't want to attack his opinion of Robinson...

so... I'm

...gonna...

resist...

Laserhead, just to give you a little more ammunition
by Hercules
Jul 8th, 2009
05:24:59 PM
I thought the storyline with Krypto and Atlas genius.
Did I already mention
by DrMorbius
Jul 8th, 2009
05:36:26 PM
FUCK MARVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Series7 - Diamond Distributors has a sales list
by FeralAngel
Jul 8th, 2009
05:51:45 PM
Latest one is for May. Here's the link: http://www.comichron.com/month lycomicssales/2009/2009-05.htm l
first appearanc eof Howard the Duck
by Rupee88
Jul 8th, 2009
05:53:37 PM
Giant Size Man-Thing #4 not proud that I know that but not ashamed either
Slaughter House Five quotes? Wtf??
by Bootskin
Jul 8th, 2009
07:04:38 PM
Seriously man. The Cap appearance doesn't "cheapen" anything. He's living through all these different scenarios throughout time, that either did or did not happen. That's the point of him being there in that one part of the book. Becoming "unstuck" in time is placing him in places ha hadn't been before. If it was a "What-if?" book, would you cry then? Stop trying to be clever in your reviews, and whining like your vagina hurts.
damian > jason
by sonnyhooper
Jul 8th, 2009
07:56:24 PM
sure they are both assholes and at first glance, damian and jason SEEM like the same character, but beneath the surface is a world of difference. jason was an asshole in that street punk, wanna be tough guy, "i-know-it-all-cuz-im-from-da- hood" way.

damian is an asshole in that, harvard legacy, trust fund, "do-you-know-who-my-dad-is" way. to me that makes all the difference, because how else would you expect batmans kid to act? it's like getting a caricature of "dark knight batman" in child form. it's almost like morrison is making fun of millers bullshit with damian.

morrison and quitely
by xsi kal
Jul 8th, 2009
08:44:51 PM
I am, apparently, the one person in the world who doesn't like either of these two.

Sure makes it easy to avoid a book when the two of them stick together though.
Stone's Throw Captain America Review =
by DS9Sisko
Jul 8th, 2009
10:53:12 PM
Most Incomprehensible Review of the Last Decade. Reviews should make some kind of sense instead of exercises in long form, stream of consciousness, experimental maxi-haiku.
A quick note to laserhead from -- DOOM!
by V. von Doom
Jul 9th, 2009
12:46:40 AM
RE Black Widow: Using English characters, "Natalia" or "Natalie" (pronounced na-ta-li-eh in both instances) is the proper name in Russian, and "Natasha" is the diminutive. DOOM has mastered little Russian but had a colleague (in Latveria) with this name and is in a position to know.
Damian being such a smartass
by the milf lover
Jul 9th, 2009
12:48:32 AM
is almost like he's a kid on a sitcom, saying smartass/funny stuff that no regular 10 year old kid could think of in real life.

Which ironically is one of the things I'm enjoying in Batman And Robin, the little bastard telling Dick and Alfred about how they're not professionals like his daddy. The rest of it isnt bad but nothing special, so I'm done as soon as Quitely is.

And if Damian really is a clone of some kind, then that is complete bullshit.

Continentalop, your Batman origin is genially twisted ...
by V. von Doom
Jul 9th, 2009
12:50:30 AM
... ever sent a spec script to DC?
NEXTWAVE was awesome
by the milf lover
Jul 9th, 2009
12:54:56 AM
on every level and one of my favorite comics in years. Monica Rambeau was a total badass in it, and despite her being a bitch I didnt find her to be out of character.

I dont know about this Divas book, they seem to have thrown random girls together for gimmick's sake.

Wenesday Comics
by Series7
Jul 9th, 2009
01:32:12 AM
Well I didn't realize that USA today is a fucking $1. But flipping through it at the LCS I did not find it worthy of $4, especially since my shop had a similar thing with old ass funny comics (like Popeye) for only a $1.

Though I hear Aquaman will team up with Hawkman at some point. If that tickles anyone's balls.

So much hate.
by Deathpool
Jul 9th, 2009
02:44:41 AM
Man, my mind is blown. You guys have pretty much name checked some of my favorite books ever and then proceeded to rip them all to shreds in Planetary and Starman. I even really enjoy The Boys, but I've always been an Ennis fan from Preacher and Hitman, and I think most have a love/hate relationship with his work. I've never tried any of his War comics though, which I've heard are fantastic.
Should I withdraw my 'Geek Card'?
by The Dum Guy
Jul 9th, 2009
03:58:40 AM
I admit that the only comics I've read have been (bean?) written(again ?) years ago... I've most recently (I don't spell check) the Preacher series, and prior to that it was the first in the Dark Tower series (already read the books in novel form) comics.

I haven't read the new series in the DT-series(should I?)

I only ask because most of the things I read are much cheaper than comics.
Greek Street
by hst666
Jul 9th, 2009
04:51:48 AM
Would be a classy name for an anal-themed porn series. Classsy.
Soony -- Damn Nice Analysis
by optimous_douche
Jul 9th, 2009
06:10:21 AM
On the differences between Damian and Jason. I agree 100%.

The point I was trying to make in my review is that Douche Robins, no matter where it stems from seem to be short lived. Although this is only the second so perhaps I'll be proved wrong, but I don't think so.

Dick and Tim were around for so long becasue they embody the virtues of the super hero mythos.

Again though, time will tell.

Thanks Doom.
by Laserhead
Jul 9th, 2009
06:18:48 AM
That was really bugging me.
ContinentalOp
by hst666
Jul 9th, 2009
06:22:45 AM
The Tuskegee experiment was not that bad? How about the radiation tests performed primarily on the elderly and menatlly challenged as well as innocent communities in Nevada? How about dosing people with LSD without their knowledge in early brainwashing experiments?

Our government did all those things and they all came out in government records! Imagine what has not come out, what was illegally destroyed or shredded before reaching the public.

One more thing - look up Operation Northwoods. I am not one of these Loose change 9/11 conspiracy nuts, but it's not like the ideas haven't been seriously considered in the past.

Great Cap Review/Why I Like Luna Bros,etc
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 9th, 2009
07:44:29 AM
Stones, don't listen to anyone who has problems with your review. If I'm gonna read a review of the comic, I appreciate it when it entertains me more than "The story was good, the art sucked, everyone talked and there was a fight scene.."

I like the Luna Brothers because I wrote a negative review of ULTRA but admired their design skills and I got quoted on the cover of the trade with the one positive thing I had to say about the book.

I'm with Joe on the DIVAS deal. Who are we trying to kid here? Without the t&a, who but the most brainwashed would read this? Captain Marvel was the leader of the AVENGERS? I always sorta hated what Dan Slott has called Avengery Avengers (he likes 'em). I like the A list.

PLANETARY? City Zero was my favorite story. Forget real conspirary (which probably isn't all that real...I mean, try to get five people to agree on what movie to see next Friday night and see how impossible it would be to mount a massive conspiracy)it was a great warped twist on a pop culture phenomenon. Ellis and Hitch should get paid for MONSTERS VS. ALIENS. No City Zero, no MVA.

Yeah, Liked City 0 In Planetary, But...
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 9th, 2009
07:51:39 AM
...I had more problems with the concept of The Four. At first, it was a brilliant, warped take on the FF that asked the question:"If Reed Richards can invent the Negatron Hyper-Transbaymorpher, why can't he cure cancer?"

I liked Ellis' answer in PLANETARY: Because he's a monster...but as usual, the problem is the fans, which is the one thing John Byrne has been right about in decades. The Fans try to apply to Four concept to the FF and let's all scream together:"IT'S THE FANTASTIC FOUR! THAT'S LIKE LOOKING FOR HIDDEN MEANINGS IN THE LYRICS OF THE MONKEES. IT'S THE MONKEES!"

sonnyhooper, we all are tired of Frank Miller
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 9th, 2009
08:19:53 AM
but Morrison's Batman has never been comparable to even the worst moments of THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, let alone YEAR ONE. STRIKES AGAIN? Maybe.
Deathpool
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 9th, 2009
08:25:12 AM
Eff those guys.

You like what you like.

And, it sounds to me like you have similar tastes to mine. HITMAN was one of the best books of the nineties, by far. STARMAN, well, it had its flaws, but you and I dug the good parts of it. PLANETARY was always pretty much flawless, even when they "crossed over" with Batman.

But, hey, others can "hate" too, as long as they have valid reasons to back themselves up.

If we all had to agree, nobody'd be reading JONAH HEX, and we'd all be Marvel Zombies.

hst666
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 9th, 2009
08:28:21 AM
Never ask a patriot to consider facts or a historical record. It either devolves into one long rationalization or a shouting match.
Thanks, Buzz! & Some Linear Thoughts on BATMAN & ROBIN #2
by stones_throw
Jul 9th, 2009
08:56:53 AM
And thanks also to Rev Skarekroe for adding the finishing touches. Anyway, for those who are so desperate to read my thoughts on a comic book laid out in a more conservative fashion, here's what I have to say about BATMAN AND ROBIN #2:

It was nice to see the return of the "big figure" to BATMAN covers. This used to be a staple of title pages (though seemingly not covers) and I liked Quitely's revisiting of the style. Here's some examples from the past:
http://tinyurl.com/lkntnd Giant Catwoman!
http://tinyurl.co m/mw6xgl Giant Batman!
http://tinyurl.com/nkou8o Giant Pied Piper of Peril!
http://tinyurl.com/m9jrf5 Giant Red Hood!
http://www.comics.org /coverview.lasso?id=11842&zoom =4 Another giant Batman!

The "Circus of the Strange" is rather similar to Marvel's Circus of Crime.

Frank Quitely drew an amazing comic book action sequence. He didn't just illustrate a script, his art actually pulled you through the fight, just like Gil Kane or Neal Adams would'a drawn.

After Quitely's designs for the Circus characters, Pyg/Pig seems like a much less interesting villain.

Robin being a ten year old doesn't bother me. It's dumb, but so are bat costumes in the first place.

Morrison's conclusion is rather too reminiscent of THE KILLING JOKE. An abandoned fairground at night, a grotesque villain, a member of the Bat-family in peril, and Batman driving to the rescue? I still think it just about works, but so much for Morrison's coveted originality.

Whose head is exploding on the penultimate page?

Umm ... that's it. Clear, easy to understand, and guaranteed to cause neither physical pain nor aneurysms!

Captain Marvel (not Billy Batson or Rick Jones)
by stones_throw
Jul 9th, 2009
09:14:58 AM
As I understand it, Stern wanted her to become leader but Marvel disagreed and wanted a more A-list team. Stern quit the book and was replaced with Walt Simonson, who in a classic Marvel fudge was forced to use U.S. Agent and the Fantastic Four as his Avengers team.
Stern on the Avengers...
by BurnedNotice_Dude
Jul 9th, 2009
09:42:33 AM
along with Buscema and Palmer was some of the greatest issues ever. Bad move on Marvel.
hst666
by Joenathan
Jul 9th, 2009
09:55:32 AM
Operation Northwoods. I bet thats where they got the idea for Long Kiss Goodnight, my favorite Geena Davis movie.
Planetary
by Joenathan
Jul 9th, 2009
10:04:19 AM
I'm just hoping that this last issue of Planetary is actually a gate way to a new dimensional exploration/shift ship series with the cast of planetary hoping from universe to universe.... oh, please, oh, please, oh, please.
TheDumGuy
by maelstrom_ZERO
Jul 9th, 2009
10:06:34 AM

You should read the rest of the Dark Tower comics that you haven't gotten around to yet--I'm assuming that you've read the 1st run (Gunslinger Born), but haven't read "The Long Road Home," "Treachery," and "The Fall of Gilead." In which case you probably should.

Not to say that all the aforementioned comics are great--I think they're just average and okay. But hell, it's Dark Tower stuff, so it's much more entertaining than a lot of the derivative, trite superhero stuff that's usually on the market nowadays.

"this last issue of Planetary," that I keep hearing about
by Subtitles_Off
Jul 9th, 2009
10:22:19 AM
Will it ever be published?
They put up artwork
by Joenathan
Jul 9th, 2009
11:22:37 AM
I'm not sure what the hold up was, but I think its scheduled for September or October, I don't know.
Where is Liam the Kid's "IMPALER" review?
by Fareal
Jul 9th, 2009
12:10:40 PM
The A-List
by Homer Sexual
Jul 9th, 2009
02:50:04 PM
Buzz's comments are very interesting, as was the reason that Roger Stern got forced off Avengers.

I am kind of the opposite of Buzz. I hate teams made up of A-listers most of the time. For several reasons.

Numero Uno is overexposure. I can't believe people really like reading so very many books with Wolverine, Spider-Man, Superman, etc. I find those characters overdone and boring. My only caveat is that I do like Wolverine IN HIS OWN BOOK AND X-MEN, but nooo...there have to be multiple versions of his solo title and multiple team books. Which leads me to...

Reason the Second: We all know not to use "logic" in comics,but still I believe there should be some internal comic-book sense. Wolverine is on three different teams (if not more) as well as a plethora of solo stuff. How does this work? How can he be in X-Men and Avengers at the same time (let's leave X Force out of it for now).

Third reason: I can't relate to the big guns. I am not a Super-Man or a Peter Parker, much less a Logan, so who do I relate to?

Fourth reason: Characters who are interesting but can't support their own books get exposure in team books. When the "second tier" characters are in team books with the big guns, they tend to be overshadowed. Hawkgirl was in JLA for years with no focus, no development, no nothing.

What I will say for the modern team books is that they at least mix it up. So as much as I hate having Spider-Man and ESPECIALLY Wolverine in the Avengers, I still pick up the book because I get to read about Spider-Woman and Luke Cage.

Everyone loved Morrison's JLA, which except for Aztek was totally A-List,but that run left me cold. Probably my least favorit Morrison work ever (except SeaGuy).

hst666
by Continentalop
Jul 9th, 2009
03:01:57 PM
Hey, I admit all those things happened. But Tuskegee is far from Zero Town. Tuskegee they didn't treat people with syphilis, they didn't induce it or give it to them. Now I am not saying that alone isn't bad - it is fucking terrible - but it isn't Nazi/Stalin death camp level yet.

It's like the entire deal with Isiah Bradley, the "Black" Captain America. I can handle the idea of the government using black soldiers as volunteers for a dangerous new formula, but to then gun them all down afterwards? Even in the racist days of WWII that would be fucking hard to believe. In fact impossible to believe.

As for Operation Northwood, as I always tell people A) it wasn't carried out; and B) they couldn't even keep it secret. In fact, I don't even believe in Government conspiracies - why do they have to do anything in secret when they can do it right in front of us and have the American people back them up: Viet Nam, Iraq Invasion, Gitmo, Torture. The American people just turned a blind eye to that stuff.

Subtitles, I'm a patriot
by Continentalop
Jul 9th, 2009
03:03:55 PM
Not a nationalist. Read Orwell's essay and it will explain the difference.
DC/Marvel A list
by Joenathan
Jul 9th, 2009
03:12:04 PM
Its strange, but I think non-A-list JLA teams blow... big time, but non-A-list Avengers teams works just fine and I wondered why that is. I thought about it and I realized, DC has way more Big Time Cosmic Threat type villians than Marvel and those DC baddies are constantly swinging by Earth, like they've all taken a fucking number or something. Marvel has, basically, Thanos and Galactus and neither one of them has really been seen in years. With DC, its every other week some universe destroying villian shows up, so DC needs a big gun team, where as the Avengers can mix it up with a through D listers, because they rarely have to face cosmic level villians... weird. Which might be indicitive of Marvel's more "street" level human/character focus type story-telling, where as DC is always been more interested in the masked God.

That being said, I really like how the Avenger teams are set up now, even though I find Slott's writing on Mighty to be rather poopy.
DC/Marvel A-List
by Continentalop
Jul 9th, 2009
03:25:58 PM
I always thought that a nice mix between the two is always the best. My favorite JLA teams were the ones in the 70s where you would have a-listers like Batman, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman working with B-listers like Atom, Elongating Man, Red Tornado and Zatanna. Same thing with the Avengers: Stern had Captain America and Thor on teams with Captain Marvel, Black Knight, She-Hulk and Dr. Druid.

optimous_douche
by sonnyhooper
Jul 9th, 2009
03:44:06 PM
i see your point about "douche-robins", i just wanted to clarify the difference between the two as i see it. but you are right, time will tell how it works out for damian. the deciding factor will be if other writers pick up on how morrison is writing him and match his tone. otherwise we probably will be getting another 900 "robin lives or dies" number in the near future.
Subtitles_Off re;miller vs. morrison
by sonnyhooper
Jul 9th, 2009
04:14:37 PM
well lets check the score card.... miller did DKR, Y1, DK2, and ASBARTBW.

morrison has done ARKHAM ASYLUM, GOTHIC from lotdk, the "bat-god" from JLA, R.I.P, the final crisis bat-death, and the current B&R run. to me, that puts morrison right up there with miller, o'neil, kane and finger as "guys that left their mark on batman".

just for the record, i don't HATE frank miller now. i even think DK2 and ASBARTBW work on a couple of levels. if nothing else, frank deserves love for giving us the catchphrase "i'm the goddamn batman!"

but here is the thing: back when i read DKR and Y1 the first time i too thought it was the be all, end all of batman stories. of course that was back in 1986 and i was 14 years old. my point being, that time has a way of making me see things differently as it goes by. sure i still think DKR and Y1 are classic tales, but i don't think they are the ONLY high water mark in terms of bat-stories told in the last 30 years.

The Stern team was great,
by Joenathan
Jul 9th, 2009
04:19:13 PM
but I've never enjoyed a JLA that wasn't the big seven.
I've never enjoyed a JLA team that had
by Continentalop
Jul 9th, 2009
04:22:08 PM
Superman as a member. It's like watching movie about the Universal monsters - Dracula, Frankenstein's monster, The Mummy, The Wolfman - and suddenly you throw Godzilla in the mix. Talk about overshadowing everyone else.
You didn't like ANY of Morrison's run?
by Joenathan
Jul 9th, 2009
04:50:37 PM
crazy talk
Miller v. Morrison
by optimous_douche
Jul 9th, 2009
06:19:18 PM
Really an apple and an orange at this point. Miller did his thing in the 80s and Morrison is the voice of the next generation. Seems more like a natural progression than a need for comparison.

It's like when people say the new Batman movies are so much better than the old Batman movies, well no shit, of course they are. And the movies of the 80s were infinitely better than the 60s TV show and movie.

But I guarantee we would not have the new Dark Knight films nor our new crop of writers without those paths first being forged.

Morrisons JLA run...
by sonnyhooper
Jul 9th, 2009
07:58:49 PM
....is flat out awesome. and the funny thing is, some of his best stuff on that title was done when he was stuck with electric blue superman. seriously, think about that...... the. guy. made. electric. blue. superman. cool. how do you do THAT?
Impaler Review
by williamharms
Jul 9th, 2009
10:17:03 PM
If the awesome review of my book Impaler makes you at all interested in checking it out, please do. You can read the first issue for free at www.topcow.com/impaler
Miller vs Morrison?!?
by Laserhead
Jul 10th, 2009
08:14:12 AM
Hey-- Morrison did his thing in the 80s, too. A little book called 'Animal Man', which in its quiet way also revolutionized comics, in the long run. Morrison is Miller's contemporary, not next-generation.

Anyway, comparing Miller to Morrison is like comparing a lobotomized dung-beetle to, I don't know, some supernatural entity that shines a light which makes you feel like you're getting drunk and receiving a blow-job at the same time.

B Listers, Even Among The B Listers
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 10th, 2009
09:03:16 AM
I love what Dr. Strange told Valkyrie when him, the Hulk, the Sub-Mariner and the Silver Surfer if she could join the DEFENDERS: "We are really not an organization so we can't be joined. Secondly, we are four of the most powerful beings on Earth and, no offense, but how could you add to that. And, finally, since you have no interest in men, you can't help convince the readers that we are heterosexual."

Actually, I think I may have added that last sentence myself.

I Left Out Some Words Again
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 10th, 2009
09:06:34 AM
"...what Dr. Strange told Valkyrie when SHE ASKED him, the Hulk, the Sub-Mariner and the Silver Surfer if she could join the DEFENDERS..."

All together now: "STUPID LACK OF EDIT FEATURE."

I'm Writing & Drawing Marvel's New Team...
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 10th, 2009
09:07:58 AM
...THE BLISTERS. See, they are all B-Listers and they know it and one of 'em gets drunk and calls 'em the Blisters and...
I Hear You Laser
by optimous_douche
Jul 10th, 2009
11:45:41 AM
I don't know why, I just consider Miller and Morrison from two different periods of the "modern age". Even though as I just learned the guys are only three years apart in age.

Morrison was around in the 80s, but Miller truly changed things with DKR.

It just didn't feel as though Morrison received the same comic super star status until almost a decade later...just about the time Miller started to really fall from grace.

A Serious House on Serious Earth....
by sonnyhooper
Jul 10th, 2009
07:37:19 PM
....came out in what? 89? thats only 3 years after DKR. i know Arkham Asylum was well reviewed at the time but it didn't make as much noise as DKR. but if you go back a re-read them both, Arkham has aged a lot better imo. the advantage being, it's not weighed down by the politics and attitudes of the time period it was written.
"a serious house"
by Laserhead
Jul 11th, 2009
06:22:13 AM
That's a line from a Phillip Larkin poem, speaking about a church. A great poem.

Anyway, all you can say about Miller and Morrison in the 80s, is that Miller was working with the highest-profile hero, so of course his work was noticed by pop culture at large. Morrison was working on Animal Man and Doom Patrol-- and writing the motherfucking shit out of them. Those are two series which influenced an enormous amount of material in their wake. Once Miller leaves Batman, all his work starts sucking, and revealing the weaknesses and myopia that were always there, but in a much more glaring light. On the other hand, Morrison's rep has never waxed or waned (with the exception of the outcry about Final Crisis-- and look, we're all back to praising him with B&R). Morrison just worked on fringe superheroics outside the mainstream for his early career. But the first time Morrison made a stab at mainstream super-heroics, we got JLA. His JLA has influenced every team book that's come in its stead, and it defines the modern team book-- major powers versus apocalyptic scenarios with action/action/action. Ellis and Millar's Authority only exists on the shoulders of what Morrison did in JLA. Then he went to New X-Men and had one of the all-time great runs on that book. The whole time, Miller was drawing played-out chiascuro and his writing was devolving into a lamer and lamer imitation of bad-Mickey Spillane.

There's no contest here. At all.

A more valid competition would be Alan Moore vs Morrison.

Miller vs. Morrison Also Doesn't Work...
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 11th, 2009
06:41:56 PM
...because of the art factor. With the original DARK KNIGHT, the power of Miller's artwork compensated for what few weaknesses his writing showed at the time. The blending of styles and timelines, the spooky Lynn Varley colors, the new characterizations of Batman, Superman and the Joker coming in through the images is something Morrison would be dependent of an artist to capture. It's the luck of the draw.

If you look at Miller's collaborations with David Mazzuchelli from the same era, although strong, worthy and beautiful, we can start to question Miller's judgment and taste in a few spots. I think they were already afraid to edit him. When we got into HARD BOILED, ELECTRA ASSASSIN, etc I started questioning that if it weren't Miller's name on the writing credit, would I like the writing?

Basically, after DKR, I already started wondering why anyone would want Frank Miller to just WRITE a comic?

What Miller brought to mainstream comics was that he was the first new guy in a long time who seemed to be influenced by more than mainstream superhero comics. Since then, guys like Bendis, Moore and Morrison have brought their outside interests into their writing for great effect but Miller had his love for film noir, for the pulps, for crime movies and fiction that we just didn't see at the time. If a guy wrote DAREDEVIL, chances are he'd just read a bunch of DAREDEVIL. Miller was sort of just doing the Spirit (Will Eisner's not Frank Miller's at the time) in his first DD run, but guys like me didn't know it at the time. His Batman had a lot of the Spider in it, sort of an aging Spider in a Clockwork Orange world...

Which brings us to why DKR is the most stunning of all Miller's writing (it's a matter of opinion what his best is, I say that his writing on DD was better than his Batman work). Anybody see the movie ALMOST FAMOUS? There's a scene where the teen journalist asks his first interview question of the rock start: "You had 26 years to create the music for you first album. How are you going to equal that in the 7 months before your next album is due?"

DKR had to have been a story Frank always wanted to tell, maybe from back in high school. After that, some of his stuff has been good but not as good.

So my Miller rule of thumb is that if he draws it, I'll check it out but if he writes it and someone else does the art (even if I like the artist)I don't waste my money.

Miller changed DK half way thru
by Star Hump
Jul 14th, 2009
05:25:56 PM
So it wasn't a story he always wanted to tell, Buzz. When the Watchmen pages started coming in to DC, he altered DKR with issue 3. There's a glaring tonal shift halfway through. Miller was heavily influenced by Moore.
Seriously, Who Taught Stones Throw How to Write???
by Atkinson
Jul 28th, 2009
09:20:15 AM
I mean, what the fuck! Review the fuckin' book, and stop jumping around Marvel Universe's timeline like you're motherfuckin' Dr. Manhattan!
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