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The Critics Rave As Ronald D. Moore’s VIRTUALITY Pilot Hits Tonight’s Friday Death Slot!!

Possibly worth a look by Kobaal	Jun 26th, 2009 03:59:14 AM
Although the 12-minute clip compendium did it no favours.
Talkback = ghost town by Kobaal	Jun 26th, 2009 04:07:53 AM
Indicative of interest in this show/movie/whatever?
I will watch it by growltiger	Jun 26th, 2009 04:12:29 AM
I like the components that will make the show. Maybe I will dig the assembled product.
Seriously? 13 minutes alone in a Ron Moore talkback? by Kobaal	Jun 26th, 2009 04:12:44 AM
I need to do something with my life.
oh come on america by blagwedge	Jun 26th, 2009 04:51:03 AM
Cant you see this is going to rock? Get off your lazy asses and change the channel. To this i mean, dont change AWAY from virtuality
Hope it gets a series by DC Films	Jun 26th, 2009 04:51:17 AM

What I Saw Of It...Looks Terrible!!! by Media Messiah	Jun 26th, 2009 05:25:48 AM
This show, from the clips I saw, played horribly like "The Hills" and "MTV's The Real World" meets meets the Speculative Science genre.
I'm there.... by InfiniteRegress	Jun 26th, 2009 06:01:53 AM
...probably won't get picked up, but I'm curious. That trailer thing looked a little SUNSHINE-ish. Hopefully the thing doesn't deteriorate into slasher movie cliche in the final third though.
Fail. Epic fail. by V'Shael	Jun 26th, 2009 06:11:12 AM

I'm going back to the Wacko Jacko memorial thread by V'Shael	Jun 26th, 2009 06:12:10 AM
It's hilarious.
I had no idea this was going to be on. by tonagan	Jun 26th, 2009 06:50:45 AM
I must be getting older and less hip.
Why should we watch anything on Fox ever again? by Eyegore	Jun 26th, 2009 07:22:17 AM
The way they cancel good shows is despicable. I think the best thing I can do as an individual besides not watch, is to tell all my friends not to watch, and anyone else who'll listen. And voice my opinion in public. Fox is unworthy of viewers, especially loyal viewers. Let Fox die.
Thanks for the heads-up Herc by Big Jim	Jun 26th, 2009 09:17:37 AM
I saw this listed as I was setting up my DVR but confused it with Virtuosity and simply assumed the Fox station was airing that Denzel Washington/Russel Crowe movie. The Net is also on tonight which might have contributed to my "mid '90s, technology is evil Movies" mindset and aided in my confusion.
Critics Raving? by Succotash	Jun 26th, 2009 09:30:00 AM
those blurbs indicated that it was merely just good. Entertainment Weekly gave it a B, hardly a rave. Anyway, if it lasts the first season I will check it out on DVD. For now, it is just teetering on the brink of cancellation thanks to Fox & the Friday timeslot. Good luck Moore, I hope it does well. But i refuse to get emotionally caught up in a series that may get cancelled due to Fox's track record.
Loved this line by VAWitch	Jun 26th, 2009 09:48:51 AM
Dense and layered, this is the kind of show that would attract a loyal but small following more suited to a niche cable network than a broadcaster like Fox, a place subtlety goes to die. Yup - that sounds like Fox alright.
Sounds intriguing... by Mr. Nice Gaius	Jun 26th, 2009 09:49:26 AM
...and is probably worth watching. Don't know if the premise warrants a full series though. RDM is, undeniably, a talented guy and he's responsible for some of the most thought provoking TV I've seen in years. However, I can't shake the feeling that BSG's final run was hampered not only by the writer's strike but also because RDM was distracted by projects like VIRTUALITY and CAPRICA.
How can you say critics are raving? by rfid	Jun 26th, 2009 09:50:01 AM
A lot of critics are calling it the most boring thing on television, and predicting an early grave. Convenient, how you decided not to excerpt any of THOSE reviews. Great journalism.
The repeated aimlessness of... by jimmy rabbitte	Jun 26th, 2009 10:12:49 AM
the last two seasons of BSG force me to pass on Virtuality; and instantly call into question anything Ron Moore or David Eick come up with, from now on.
The twelve minutes I saw was horrible by SmokingRobot	Jun 26th, 2009 10:13:06 AM
Just awful. Absolutely terrible.
David Eick? by optimus122	Jun 26th, 2009 10:31:23 AM
What you didn't like Bionic Woman? Actually I want to spank Michelle Ryan still..really hard.
Re: Moore by ArmageddonProductions	Jun 26th, 2009 11:38:35 AM
I think this was pretty much the same reaction (minus the "raping Larson's original vision!" rhetoric) that the original 4-hour BSG miniseries generated. I also remember, at the time, being a bit apathetic towards the mini, not because it was necessarily bad, but because it wasn't really a grabber. They did some interesting things, but you couldn't really envision it going places that the original hadn't. In fact, I don't think the new BSG really caught fire with audiences until "33", when it became a bit more obvious where they were heading. Maybe that also applies here?
Re: jimmy rabbitte by ArmageddonProductions	Jun 26th, 2009 11:44:55 AM
I also agree with that sentiment. On one hand, Moore can really put a show together. On the other hand, I'm not sure he knows what to do with said show once it's together. Not only is there no excuse for the last two seasons of BSG, but the fact that it also requires a two-hour side-story and a prequel series (after that mess they slopped us with in the last 11 episodes, do we really need to know where the Cyclons came from?) to fill in blanks that shouldn't have existed in the first place. Quality television or not, it's just bad storytelling.
"no excuse" for the last 2 seasons of BSG by oisin5199	Jun 26th, 2009 11:48:58 AM
Yeah, no excuse for some of the most compelling, intense, and brilliant two seasons of television I've ever seen in my 35+ years of watching television.
"no excuse" by DennisMM	Jun 26th, 2009 12:14:06 PM
"Exodus" parts 1 and 2 excuse nearly all the faults of the last two seasons of "Galactica."
Yeah! by Cobbio	Jun 26th, 2009 12:46:27 PM
As a fan of creatively plotted science fiction, I'll be tuning in. I'll invite several friends over to check it out too. The review that wrote (about Fox) "where subtlety goes to die" was dead on. Not that every show requires subtlety, but thank god certain writers and show-runners aren't pandering to the braindead. Smart people have a significant viewing market too, don't they? I hope so. I'm excited for "Virtuality."
Why does ANYONE put ANYTHING on Fox???!!! by MJohnson	Jun 26th, 2009 01:00:21 PM
What a surprise...an ambitious, though-provoking, intelligent SF television show that Fox won't greenlight...and if it does, will no doubt screw up. Why the fuck does anyone in television still work with Fox?
Also... by Cobbio	Jun 26th, 2009 01:00:56 PM
When the fuck is "Virtuality" actually on? I went through tvguide.com and even fox.com and couldn't find it. Anyone know? 8 o'clock? 9 o'clock?
Eight by Cobbio	Jun 26th, 2009 01:07:11 PM
Finally found it (God, that was excruciating! Isn't information supposed to be easy to find?). It's on at 8pm, Friday night on Fox.
STARLOST will OWN! by Bob Cryptonight	Jun 26th, 2009 01:28:27 PM

jimmy rabbitte/ArmageddonProductions by MapMan	Jun 26th, 2009 01:48:34 PM
Hear hear! I third that. RDM needs to learn that a good story needs a GOOD ending. It doesn't matter how good the opening is if you don't know how it's going to end. I wouldn't greenlight anything from RDM unless he had the ending figured out in advance. He really did a disservice to BSG and its fans with its terrible ending.
It starts at 8 but runs two hours by Big Jim	Jun 26th, 2009 02:00:41 PM
(in case you are thinking of recording it)
a lot reviews i read was negative by iownyou	Jun 26th, 2009 02:25:36 PM
don't cherry pick good ones
I'll give it a try, but after the way BSG ended by lockesbrokenleg	Jun 26th, 2009 02:43:48 PM
expectations lowered.
MJohnson by Ribbons	Jun 26th, 2009 03:06:13 PM
To Fox's credit, they create smarter pilots and shows that other networks would never even try making in the first place. Of course they proceed to shitcan them in short order, which is frustrating, but part of the reason they have the reputation for canceling promising new series is because their promising new series actually see the light of day.
Wow, a heavy "mental workout" is a problem now. by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 03:13:21 PM
See, too me, that's generally the sign of a GOOD pilot. I'll be watching, and lamenting what could've been on another (cable) network.
NOT EVEN HERC IS RAVING ABOUT THE SHOW by Mullah Omar	Jun 26th, 2009 03:28:51 PM
Critics seemed intrigued at best. I agree that this seems to have no place on subtlety-challenged Fox. Why not shop this to SciFi, FX, or AMC?
I agree, Melvin_Pelvis by Cobbio	Jun 26th, 2009 03:50:33 PM
Space Zombies, Space Pirates, Space Nazis, and Space Vampires would be a welcome addition to the show. Maybe the ship could duke it out at some point with a WWII-style steamship full of too-long-in-hibernation, now-insane Space Nazis? Maybe Space Zombies materialize out of nowhere from the 22nd dimension, hunting down the astronauts so they can't find the Space Zombie homeworld? Maybe Space Pirates target the ship to kill the astronauts and extract "valuable" technology from it's VR center? Finally, maybe Space Vampires engineered by aliens from human DNA attack with bloody first-contact intentions in mind? Ah, the places this show could go!
and against Transformers by Bloo	Jun 26th, 2009 04:28:15 PM
I know it's been getting shitty reviews but people are still going to go see it tonight
Sounds ace by Semen Stains	Jun 26th, 2009 04:35:23 PM
Look forward to watching it.
Re: "Exodus", "Compelling Television" by ArmageddonProductions	Jun 26th, 2009 04:44:37 PM
"Exodus" happened at the beginning of Season 3. Unfortunately, then, the rest of Season 3 happened. As for "compelling television", I'll grant you that even those last two seasons were well-executed, and apart from the whole "we have no fucking idea where we're going here, so we'll just make up some shit" writing style, they kept the viewers hooked. Unfortunately, the viewers were all hooked because they were kind of hoping things would actually, you know, get wrapped up and stuff by the time the series ended. Instead, we got about three seasons of exposition crammed into three episodes, three characters revealed to be literal "angels", Cylons that came from another planet that helped create the Cylons that were chasing the good guys the whole time and a "We found Earth ... no, no, this is the OTHER 'Earth', we'll find a second planet and THAT'S 'Earth' now!" resolution. That ain't compelling television, that's just fucking sloppy.
I'll assign one of my VR avatars to interface with it. by kabong	Jun 26th, 2009 05:17:14 PM
I must preserve the inviolability of my noetic space.
Re: by Cobbio	Jun 26th, 2009 05:46:49 PM
Good idea. You should do that, kobong. I'll upgrade the opto-processing components while you're in there. Can you watch television from inside your avatar? Just wondering.
JACOB IS LUCIFER!!!!! by chrth	Jun 26th, 2009 06:26:57 PM

I liked the sneak peek. by DeafPoet	Jun 26th, 2009 06:29:29 PM
Too bad there's no fucking way this is going to series. It's for the best anyway. Fox would just ruin it. I'm shocked they gave Dollhouse a chance.
I gave up 25 minutes in by ThrowMeTheIdol	Jun 26th, 2009 07:30:39 PM
Gave it a chance but the characters are unlikeable and the look/feel of the show was cheap and drab.
Pretty Damn Good by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 07:53:10 PM
I am very impressed so far. These are some great characters and I agree with the above...there is definitely an Alien vibe (minus any actual aliens). Trust no one. These people are all crazy. So many layers. Very cool.
I like it a lot! by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 07:53:13 PM
This is some really good sci-fi. Some of the photography and fx are a little iffy, but this show isn't really about fx. I have no life on Fridays, so I'd watch it.
The Doctor is def not sick by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 07:54:25 PM
That is BS. Why does McPoyle keep on showing up?
Sci-Fi shows on Fox are like abusive relationships by cylon_conspiracy	Jun 26th, 2009 08:01:22 PM
Every time they say it's going to be different, but we know they're going to end up beating, then killing, any sci-fi show.
This show has no chance by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:06:22 PM
It is way too good and is probably way over the heads of the average viewer. Why didn't Moore take this to SyFy? Also, I am retracking my previous statement. Maybe the Doc is sick. He seems genuine. I like the voting scene. Well done.
Not bad by kyle051554	Jun 26th, 2009 08:09:32 PM
I was pretty iffy on this, but seeing the raves up above, I decided to go ahead and tune in. I feel like it's dragging a bit on the McPoyle storyline, though. Also, is the guy in the wheelchair Morris from 24? Love that guy.
2nd Mission by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:12:23 PM
You know the Consortium has already launched a second mission. Think Pegasus from Battlestar. Too bad we will never see this storyline. I love Dollhouse (especially the stuff with Alpha at the end of season 1), but this show blows it out of the water.
I really like the paranoia and ambiguity. by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:21:31 PM
What's real and what's VR, etc. The rape scene was pretty fucked up.
A mistake? by kyle051554	Jun 26th, 2009 08:21:58 PM
I'm pretty forgiving of scientific errors in a show or movie as long as it's consistent within its own universe, but why didn't the crew go weightless when they stopped spinning the ring before activating the Orion drive?
Rape scene??!!! by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:23:14 PM
That was disgusting. Show is cancelled for sure. Nobody wants to watch that shit.
This is GREAT. by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 08:25:21 PM
Fuck you Fox. It's got some pilot-y pacing issues, but there is no sci-fi on television right now as intriguing and well-conceived as this, save for possibly "Lost." And as much as I enjoy "Dollhouse" and enjoyed TSCC, I agree with Sean - This blows both of 'em out of the water. Reminds me a bit of "Alien" and "Sunshine," which is awesome.
I'm behind on the DVR... by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 08:26:36 PM
so I haven't gotten to a "rape scene" yet though..
Captain has gone nuts. by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:28:35 PM
My loyalties are shifting like crazy
Ok yeah, that was disturbing. by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 08:30:29 PM

The name of the ship is a bit prophetic... by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:35:37 PM
...of doom. http://tinyurl.com/p8sf73
I agree with not attractive girl by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:36:42 PM
It doesn't matter if physically she wasn't violated. She was mind raped, which is probably worse. Good Sci fi. I guess Moore went for it assuming he would never go to series. I miss Battlestar.
Sorry for the spoiler. I thought we were all "in sync". by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:37:12 PM
I won't do it again.
"2001 with crazy people" by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:42:11 PM

I'm imagining the pitch meeting. by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:42:42 PM
"Think 2001 with crazy people."
Wow. I thought he was a goner. by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:45:25 PM

Or, even better... by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:45:59 PM
Anybody remember "Murder in Space", the tv movie from 1985? Cross-pollenate that with A Space Odyssey, and there you've got some damned good sci-fi.
What is the name of the ship? by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:47:14 PM

Phaeton... by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:49:09 PM
This is the wiki entry on Phaeton, from Greek mythology: http://tinyurl.com/p8sf73
Not your fault Royston. by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 08:49:27 PM
I shouldn't be patrolling an AICN talkback when I'm behind. Anyway, I'm now all caught up, so no worries! And yes, the true horror of rape in the real world is the psychological ramifications anyway, so I agree with the Clea Duvall's character, too. Mind rape=Rape.
An aside: by kyle051554	Jun 26th, 2009 08:50:03 PM
Does "The Cleveland Show" look like shit to anybody else? "Family Guy" and "American Dad" are great (I probably actually prefer the latter), but "The Cleveland Show" just looks terrible.
Seriously? by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:50:26 PM
Brothers goes to series in the fall but actual intelligent tv like Virtuality gets doomed? Come on Fox...sack the fuck up. "That is how one becomes great, you hang your balls out there." Wait...the captain is dead????
Wait, the captain's... by kyle051554	Jun 26th, 2009 08:51:16 PM
...actually dead? God damn. Kudos to Moore for having the balls to setup someone as the main character only to kill him off in the pilot.
Except, he might not be dead... by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 08:58:33 PM
...or maybe he is. I love this sorta ambiguity. BTW, here's the old promo for "Murder in Space", in case y'all are curious. I think I see one of our good friends from Lost in this promo, but he's facing away from the camera so I'm not 100% sure. http://tinyurl.com/oyvd3e
I missed that last bit. by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 08:59:26 PM
What did the Captain say? Did he kill himself to become the ghost in the machine?
too bad it will never continue by jccalhoun	Jun 26th, 2009 08:59:41 PM
really interesting. Lots of good stuff here but lots of cliche too and a bit of uneven writing. I thought the psychiatrist/producer was pure cold hearted bastard in the first hour but he started to seem much more caring in the second half. The allusion to the big corporation is a bit lame and overly cliched. the guy talking to his son was also pretty obvious. Things going screwy with the computer is too cliched. Some of the sets are too big to be believable. Regardless, this pilot is still better than the first episode of pretty much any show I've seen. I would really like to see more and where the show would go. The actor playing Captain Pike looks way too much like Lance Armstrong. It is distracting.
Hmm I don't think there really is a mission by ThrowMeTheIdol	Jun 26th, 2009 09:01:01 PM
Okay I ended up watching the rest despite what I said. It looks like the whole thing is just a video game, I mean all of it, the mission itself.
Well. by Hercules	Jun 26th, 2009 09:01:04 PM
I really quite enjoyed that! Much better than the CAPRICA pilot if you're asking me.
Should've ended it with a hastily scribbled title card. by tonagan	Jun 26th, 2009 09:02:15 PM
"They all ended up dying and everyone on Earth drowned. The End."
SeanMiller by kyle051554	Jun 26th, 2009 09:03:37 PM
I don't remember verbatim, but he was talking about seeing how far the rabbit hole goes and that nothing is real. My hypothesis? The whole thing is a virtual test of the potential crew to go on the actual mission to find another Earth. The commander started to feel like he was being tested, because he was, and was able to get out by killing himself in the "program". Now he's hacking into their VR programs from the real world to try and guide them out (or something). McPoyle might be an artificial stressor input by the Consortium to simulate the actual stresses of being millions of miles from Earth.
Man, I wish this went to series. by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 09:04:06 PM
Not sure exactly what that ending meant, and I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to. One of the "mysteries of the show," so to speak. Also, I guess even with Commander Pike dead, Coster-Waldau would've still been a regular if he still existed inside the program. Any chances of Fox selling this to Sci-Fi or something (and why didn't Moore go to them with this in the 1st place)? This seems like something they'd love to have.
I liked Caprica, but I agree with Herc. by flickchick85	Jun 26th, 2009 09:06:12 PM
I'd rather see this series than Caprica.
It was better than Caprica by lockesbrokenleg	Jun 26th, 2009 09:10:12 PM
I'd hope the BSG series would have been about other ships in the fleet maybe we could have cameos from the Galactica crew from time to time?
I doubt the easiest theories will turn out to be correct. by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 09:10:12 PM
The most obvious one being that it's a big video game, there is no mission, and it's just a big "Capricorn One" hoax to keep the people of Earth from going apeshit on each other. Hope, and all that. Since that's too obvious an answer, I'm rejecting it. I prefer to think that Jean (or is it Gene?) has created a fake VR captain to keep the crew from going ape-shit on each other, and the VR Captain will give them clues about what's going on.
That was Definitely Interesting by cymbalta4thedevil	Jun 26th, 2009 09:12:39 PM
But maybe too cerebral? All the conflicts would be internal. It's not like they're going to run into any alien species. Maybe each week they could vote someone off the spaceship and eject them out the airlock....
I haven't seen Caprica yet. by guido505	Jun 26th, 2009 09:12:57 PM
But I agree with Herc, I enjoyed the hell out of this. I'd like to see it go to series. Unfortunately knowing Fox this is probably the last we've seen of this crew.
Make That A Show by Crow3711	Jun 26th, 2009 09:14:27 PM
I'm glad all six were home to actually watch the thing on a Friday night, but that really should be made a show. It wasn't perfect or anything, but I would definitely support it. Come on Fox, throw us a bone for once, take it to series.
I like the idea that the mission is a joke. by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 09:16:38 PM
That is more interesting then sending a second mission. That being said, it would be very anti-climatic to learn that the crew was duped from the beginning just to create a tv show. A tv show that doesn't even air commercials. How is fox in the show making its money if advertiser don't get a chance to plug their products to the 5 billion viewers? Its not like we saw any product placement that the Truman show did to make its money. Somebody has to fund the 200 billion project/show and you know that fox doesn't have the balls for something like that. So what did the Captain figure out? I like the theory that the whole thing is a stress test for the actual mission and the captain is hacking the system and going up against McPoyle. Just like the girl in Turman show, you know, the one from Californication.
It may be fake but they are really there by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 09:21:22 PM
That is why we were shown earlier in the episode that Jene can read someone's mind and create an AI character from it (the scientist creating a representation of his son). The Captain did the same thing, but told Jene to create a representation of himself. This actually backs up my idea of a real second mission that the crew would eventually run into. Thanks kyle051554.
Def better then Caprica by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 09:23:31 PM
This handled the whole VR thing in a more realistic scientific manner. As much as I want to like and watch Caprica I find it difficult since we know that Cyclons really were created/existed 1000s of years before. Eric Stotlz is the man though.
Definitely interesting by JacksParasites	Jun 26th, 2009 09:23:55 PM
When it started, I was immediately bored out of my skull. Much of the first hour felt lifeless. When we find out the captain was going on the old Appalachian Trail w/ the shrink/producer's wife, I started getting intrigued by how that was going to play out. I slowly started seeing potential BSG-like drama emerging. But it was the rape scene and the following scenes that addressed it that sold me on this. Now I would like to see more, albeit at a faster pace.
Fringe by SeanMiller	Jun 26th, 2009 09:26:02 PM
I liken the Captain's situation to the FBI guy in Fringe who died in the pilot but came back via the hot girls memories.
I watched Five Seconds by Tall_Boy66	Jun 26th, 2009 09:34:22 PM
Two people were in a room, the guy said "It's something... extraordinary" I realized that's quite the cliche line in sci-fi, so I passed.
by DreamSeasonBobby	Jun 26th, 2009 09:37:49 PM

SeanMiller: The "show within the show" uses product placement. by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 09:51:38 PM
Remember, at the very beginning of the show the computer reminded the commander that he had to wear a particular company's shirt because that company sponsors the mission on Wednesdays. And the psychiatrist said that the clothing was designed to be uncomfortable to help create tension and conflict for the "show within the show". That's how "future Fox" makes money off the mission.
And, the computer didn't read the guy's mind... by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 09:53:28 PM
The computer used the crew member's personnel file and other data to create the personality for the kid.
You know what would make this show awesome? by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 09:54:34 PM
If Keir Dullea did a cameo or two...
Yeah, it WAS better than Caprica..... by TorgoTheWhite	Jun 26th, 2009 10:01:32 PM
....but still boring as hell! I mean, I can definately see potential in this story, but I do not feel the writers, director, etc made everything of this story that they could have. And they REALLY lost me with the final Alice in Wonderland reference. Characters talking about going 'down the rabbit hole' are so overused that they have become cliche to the extreme.
Holodeck malfunctioning again? Haven't we seen this? by JuanSanchez	Jun 26th, 2009 10:04:04 PM
Over and over and over and over and over and over again?
Well THAT was fucking FANTASTIC!! by gooseud	Jun 26th, 2009 10:07:27 PM
That isnt going to series?? WTF??? That was the best sci fi I have seen on TV in ages!! Did people really think that was going to suck? What in gods's name is going on over there at Fox?? Why cant I stop using excessive punctuation??
Stole the look from Sunshine. Throw in Next Gen VR by JuanSanchez	Jun 26th, 2009 10:08:26 PM
and we've got an "original" show!!!
Thought this was a mini-series. It's a one-episode pilot? Fuuuuu by Colegegraduit	Jun 26th, 2009 10:10:13 PM
That was amusing, though I’m getting a little pissed at FOX’s “here’s a pilot we were given if you like it you’ll have to wait until the next snowfall at the earliest to see a part 2.” I mean love or hate Glee at least the "sneak peek" at the series premiere was a self-contained story with a beginning, middle, and end. Now we have a pilot with no resolutions, a hundred questions, no answers, and no sign of being picked up. Yeah: frak you too, FOX! Though to be fair to FOX…what do we really have here? We have the typical Life On Mars mind trip bulls**t where is the dream a reality or is the reality the dream blah blah blah. Except: dude…? If you really have no clue what was reality and what was not, here’s some hints. Shot in the heart and you don’t die? Dream. Nearly sucked out a fracking AIRLOCK and now you’re dog chow in sick bay? Sounds like reality, chief. Oh and how brilliant was it to admit in the series pilot that this was a ten year mission, so in other words, the series would have to last ten fracking seasons to reach ANY resolution. How likely will that happen? Even less likely than you think, friend. Reminder: this aired on FOX, the same network that brought you Wonderfalls…and Vanished…and Firefly. Anyone care to take bets how many episodes this series would get, even IF it got picked up? Oh yeah; good track record, FOX. Except…not.
11 minutes in and I'm bored to death. Looks awful. by JuanSanchez	Jun 26th, 2009 10:11:15 PM

@Royston Lodge..you are a genius. by MacFaux	Jun 26th, 2009 10:12:16 PM
Dave: You know of course though he's right about the 9000 series having a perfect operational record. They do. Dr. Frank Poole: Unfortunately that sounds a little like famous last words.
The nit-picking Trekkie in me is coming out. by Royston Lodge	Jun 26th, 2009 10:16:36 PM
Always happens. About an hour or so after watching something really cool, the nitpicker inside me starts to notice the plot holes. Like, did the designers of this ship not see 2001: A Space Odyssey?! You don't give the computer that much authority over the ship and it's crew! It's like, a rule!!! ;-)
I'm sorry Dave. I can't do that. by lockesbrokenleg	Jun 26th, 2009 10:20:50 PM
Stop the virtual program, Hal.
Sunshine was good up until the third act by chickentonight3	Jun 26th, 2009 10:22:10 PM
they really did jump the shark in that one. Up until then I really liked how the conflict and problems were all from them making mistakes rather than it being some external threat. And then they turn it into a monster film in space.
That was very good! by Cinemanimetal	Jun 26th, 2009 10:34:40 PM
I highly enjoyed this pilot. I really wish it had a conclusion though. I'm not sure where this was going as a tv show, but I like that! I didn't realize there wasn't going to be other episodes until after I watched the show. I am very bummed that fox didn't have faith in this. This is quality sci-fi!
SNORE by DJJester	Jun 26th, 2009 10:40:21 PM
I'll say this... if it went to series, I wouldn't watch it. I was a huge BSG fan but this just felt like a bunch of sci-fi cliche's all rolled into one. Malfunctioning "holodecks", dead character that comes back and will probably never have that origin explained, the first thing to break is communication with home... it never ends. If people are saying Caprica was worse than this I'm glad I haven't picked it up yet, the previews didn't look good for it either.
The real explanation by Raymar	Jun 26th, 2009 10:46:42 PM
They were all dolls all along! See, you can use that lazy device to explain anything!
virtuality has a facebook posse by jccalhoun	Jun 26th, 2009 10:52:17 PM
Apparently the show has a facebook page. It couldn't hurt to become a fan of it on facebook if you like it. http://is.gd/1fpgb Weird that when you click on the name of the show on fox.com it takes you to the facebook page and not a page on fox.com or even a page on Fox owned myspace.
Virtuosity was better - and that sucked. by JuanSanchez	Jun 26th, 2009 11:12:24 PM

Yeah, Caprica was worse by TorgoTheWhite	Jun 26th, 2009 11:18:35 PM
But I hate to COMPLETELY condemn Caprica. It's mostly the Greystone side of the story (which is most of the show) that really sucks. The proto-Cylon is cool and the Adama side of the story is very nicely done, but neither of these things can save Caprica unless the show undergoes a very significant restructuring. As for Virtuosity, I agree with all the gripes about having so many cliches crammed into one story. It's almost like they were going for a parody, but failed to include the humor that is supposed to go along with it.
I don't know, wasn't that impressed by Rob0729	Jun 27th, 2009 12:09:43 AM
I guess I was turned off by the whole reality TV aspect of the plot. I can't stand real reality TV and I guess I am not that juiced for a scripted television show about a reality show in the future (ok, I know the irony of that statement). I found that aspect of the show getting stale really quick. Besides, I think it an crutch to use the confessionals to develop characters (even the confessionals couldn't stop the gay couple from being cookie cutter stereotypes). I think the show had potential, but I can see why it was scrapped. The entire concept didn't work for me, but aspects did. I think the pilot suffered from an identy crisis of what it really wanted to be and didn't really find its footing until probably the last half hour or so. One other gripe that has been stated in other posts is that they did steal aspects from other movies most notably Sunshine and Aliens (the whole evil corporate entity more interest in the bottom line than human lives). I also wonder how they could substain the main conflict over a multiple year arch. Yes, the mission is ten years, but the whole holdeck character killing people and fucking with their minds would get very tired in about three or four episodes.
It was good, well thought out, look forward to more. by kirttrik	Jun 27th, 2009 12:18:53 AM

Execution solid, plot weak given premise by StanTheProgressor	Jun 27th, 2009 12:28:46 AM
The most exciting moment is engine ignition. Character of the pilot episode exudes space anime vibe (e.g. Planetes). You know, the writer guy shouldn't be one knocking on Dollhouse scripts -- this wasn't great writing by any measure.
This has a chance by cossack_says_die	Jun 27th, 2009 12:34:07 AM

This has a chance by cossack_says_die	Jun 27th, 2009 12:35:09 AM
Fox did renew Dollhouse even though all the numbers stated they shouldn't. Somewhere, somebody at Fox has a heart.
Bummer... by codymr	Jun 27th, 2009 12:48:27 AM
In Canada for some God forsaken reason it was broadcast in the 4:3 aspect ratio... so anything on screen left and right were cut off. for about 5 minutes I was trying to figure out why it looked so odd. Can someone please explain why TV is still broadcast in 4:3, even on anologue cable when the source material is 16:9. We are all used to letter boxing by now. OK. I will step off my soapbox now.
I Saw The Show, Almost Half, And It Was Good by Media Messiah	Jun 27th, 2009 02:09:17 AM
I hate to admit it, but Virtuality was well done!!! The show contained a very good story, and I loved Zoic's special effects work. The camera mounts to the outer skin of the space ship were incredible, and breathtaking-- shots which turned with the twirling circular crew quarters section of the vessel, one that creates artificial gravity--and whoa, would that look great on a movie screen???!!! As it moved, this section of the ship, we saw the stars move with it, from various mounts along the length of the vessel, giving the shots a really deep...embedded, and often photo realistic look--albeit, a wider budget would have served to enhanced the look of the ship and the composited shots. In terms of creativity, Zoic is just incredible-F**k ILM!!! This is the kind of look I wanted to see for the new Star Trek, but alas, JJ Abrams is too shallow of a thinker, and the folks at ILM have lost their creative souls, as well as their best visualists many years ago, when they left for greener pastures after being screwed by Lucas.
Hmmm... by codymr	Jun 27th, 2009 03:03:13 AM
I liked that RDM did something a little different and moved away from military SF (no Federations or Colonial fleets). That aspect was nice to see. Virtuality has a nice throwback quality to Silent Running or perhaps the first act of Alien. It had a lot of clever elements here and there. But, I found the reality TV aspect of Virtuality hard to get my head around and I felt it was a gimmick that didn't work. Personally, I don't like "real" reality TV, so watching a fictional show that incorporates it into the main story arc put me off. Is there anyone on this thread that likes reality TV? If so, what did you think of that aspect of the story?
BTW, Herc - are those reviews really raves? That's a stretch. by JuanSanchez	Jun 27th, 2009 03:04:14 AM

Proof America HATES Sci-Fi by ThusSpakeSpymunk	Jun 27th, 2009 03:05:11 AM
Yet more proof ... When will the fanboys stop trying to convince the world to love Sci-Fi and just start making these shows with garage sets and the modern equivalent of video toasters? I personally think the time has come for a John Galt type of strike of creativity - these ****ers don't want sci-fi? Don't give it to them. Cut it out of their world. Let them bleed out of the head from watching romcoms and fart jokes until all they've got left is OW MY BALLS! on every channel. We can sit back and trade youtube videos of good, intelligent, thought-provoking sci-fi and leave them in a pool of their own crap to rot.
I liked it by smackfu	Jun 27th, 2009 04:23:16 AM
for 3/4s of it, I was kind of thinking that I liked it better when it was 2001. But then the ending made it clear this story wasn't going the 2001 route and I was suddenly a lot more intrigued.
Sienna Guilroy, Peter Berg, Sci-Fi by Bruce of all Trades	Jun 27th, 2009 04:52:28 AM
Yeah, this definitely deserves checking out.
McPoyles are everywhere. by The McPoyle Clan	Jun 27th, 2009 05:12:10 AM
Even in space. Don't you forget it. That said, I dozed off about half way thru. Was it really necessary for all those "XXX Cam" shots of the ship?
Jimmy SImpson, baby. Lyle the Intern. by JuanSanchez	Jun 27th, 2009 06:16:24 AM

just 8 minutes in... by JAMF	Jun 27th, 2009 07:01:19 AM
and i had to come on here to say - an asian guy with a black chick? WTF?! if the ending to bsg wasnt enough proof ron moore's lost his mind...
I'll wait. by JediWuddayaknow	Jun 27th, 2009 08:36:35 AM
Yep. Waiting a couple weeks til Fox cancels it, then I'll download it from a torrent site. Those fuckers aren't getting my viewership or money anymore.
Kobaal by Donkey_Lasher	Jun 27th, 2009 08:55:46 AM
Bet you're sorry you posted that second.
Rule Number 1 by Donkey_Lasher	Jun 27th, 2009 08:57:39 AM
Don't start watching a show until it has a confirmed second season, otherwise you'll become frustrated.
And.... by Donkey_Lasher	Jun 27th, 2009 08:58:27 AM
...I'm now going to finish 24 season 6 (much better than season 5) and then start Dollhouse and Fringe
so much better than caprica by JAMF	Jun 27th, 2009 09:32:17 AM
ridiculously better. can't believe fox are thinking of not making this a show when caprica is getting a season. great to see that mcpoyle guy too. they're hinting towards the usual 'the whole show is actually vr' idea which obviously isnt going to be popular, but i reckon theres more to it than that. oh yeah that rape scene - wow, i had a terrible feeling in my stomach, it was horrible but brilliant at the same time.
Loved it. by gotilk	Jun 27th, 2009 10:09:51 AM
I really would like to pipe in and agree with the comments about cliches but I just didn't walk away from it with that in the front of my mind. I think, in the end, it transcended all that. Didn't like Clea Duvall's Starbuck impression much, but like the actress. It would be interesting to see where that goes. Don't be so quick to think this would not go the 2001 direction. It's not impossible that their VR visitor is not from earth. It would certainly be a more interesting direction than "it's all a simulation" or "they're all in suspended animation and the Captain is AI" (hinted at with the whole "Alien" bobbing bird thing). I expect the ending of all this would be more interesting than what we expect. FOX needs to seriously consider taking this to series AND including real corporate logo placement in the show instead of those made up companies. Someone asked about reality TV, people who hate/love it and how they reacted to the format of the show. I HATE HATE HATE HATE reality TV and that aspect didn't bother me even remotely(lol..odd pun). Once or twice the use of traditional TV-drama camera placement, angles and steadycam/handheld shots pulled me out of it all by being a bit jarring. (I would have gone for more static shots and saved the "cinema" moments for the VR sequences) But other than those small criticisms, I really enjoyed it and felt sad at the end that we might not even see a continuation. How about FOX seeks some redemtion for all their past evils by committing to a SET THREE SEASONS, period and letting it play to it's natural conclusion?? Then if it's a huge hit, consider something beyond after that? I'd much prefer to watch a series that lasts a much shorter period of time than a series that is designed to go on and on and on and never concludes. Instead it just STOPS. I think we should get rid of that whole idea and start seeing some smaller commitments from the networks. I see people commenting on the space FX, but those VR sequences were much more impressive to me. The painting scene, the hyper-real but odd Civil War scenes. All great. And the scene with the hybrid AI of that guy's kid, spine-tingling. In a good but also VERY creepy way. Kind of like the way Gibson described the AI laughing in Neuromancer. Creepy. Just not right, but in a way that's hard to describe. You can't pin it down precisely but it leaves you feeling uncomfortable. BRAVO. Really, really hope it gets picked up.
Sienna Guillory is HAWT! by REVENGE_of_FETT	Jun 27th, 2009 10:24:23 AM
For those that didn't recognize her, she was Jill Valentine in Resident Evil: Apocalypse. I've been waiting for her to show up again. Like RE, she was the best part of Virtuality. Overall I thyought it was an ok pilot. Would have definitely tuned in for more episodes, but it seemed too sterile and slow for a Fox show. fox just keeps creating and destroying sci fi shows, I don't get it. Aside from arguably Heroes and perhaps Smallville, there really isn't any sci fi on network TV. It would be nice to have it back and I don't want to wait for Star Wars to get it. I'm sure that's still years away.
Is this a joke? This thing stunk. by kabong	Jun 27th, 2009 10:28:46 AM
Half of it was talking heads.
I thought it was great, with a lot of potential... by Zardoz	Jun 27th, 2009 11:26:07 AM
Too bad we'll never know how good the show would have been; I agree with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette review: "Dense and layered, this is the kind of show that would attract a loyal but small following more suited to a niche cable network than a broadcaster like Fox, a place subtlety goes to die." Amen!
If I were forced to pick. by gotilk	Jun 27th, 2009 11:32:03 AM
I would pick this over Caprica. But Caprica has a lot of potential. I am intrigued at the idea of exploring how traditional morality plays against a virtual world. It's never really been addressed fearlessly.
Pulled in 1.81 million viewers by scnjedi	Jun 27th, 2009 11:51:17 AM
With a 0.5 rating in the 18-49 demographic. I doubt it'll get picked up with those numbers.
Boring by Dkev00	Jun 27th, 2009 12:25:24 PM
Didn't even finish watching it.
Clearly Inspired by "Sunshine" by Admiral Nelson	Jun 27th, 2009 12:26:21 PM
If you haven't seen Danny Boyle's "Sunshine," then check it out. Having seen it recently in a theater (the AFI in Silver Spring, MD, with THX sound), I gotta say, that movie has clearly inspired a bunch of recent S/F projects -- including "Star Trek." (Note the white-on-white production design, and even some anamorphic lens flare shots.) I'm only 20 minutes into "Virtuality," and I'll bet you anything that both Ron Moore and J.J. Abrams studied Boyle's film closely. (And Soderbergh's "Solaris" was more influential than you think, too.)
Underrated Sienna Guillory by thevision	Jun 27th, 2009 01:05:11 PM
I've always like her, should've taken over the Resident Evil franchise. Sienna looks like Jolene Blalock- another underrated actress. Anyway, interesting pilot but no way it would get greenlight at Fox, should've shopped it to Sci-Fi-what the fuck is it with all their Canadian-made series?!-Warehouse 13?!? Or Fox's cable sister channel FX network.
it was ok by dudemandude	Jun 27th, 2009 02:14:33 PM
it was ok. I liked it an all but I can see the BSG craziness starting already in the pilot. resurrection and probably god involved somewhere too. i wish it would've been picked up so i could see the full story though.
Pretty good, surprisingly promising by photoboy	Jun 27th, 2009 02:37:33 PM
The premise of Holodeck: The Series sounded terrible, but the execution totally saved this. It's a pity nothing is going to be resolved and the story left unfinished. In particular the possibility that they're all unwittingly in a VR game or that there's nothing wrong with Earth was very interesting. Sienna Guillory and the Leighton Messter lookalike were excellent on the eyes. Clea Duvall should be put out the nearest airlock though.
Unoriginal? by Cartman86	Jun 27th, 2009 03:31:31 PM
Wait because it's like Sunshine, 2001 or Moon it's unoriginal? Fuck you. We never get sci-fi like this on television. I don't think their has ever been a series like this. Sure it has some ideas we have all seen, but in this package and in this format? Fuck no.
One of the best pilots I've ever seen. by I Hope You Die	Jun 27th, 2009 03:38:30 PM
I had no hope for this at all but the execution was absolutely flawless. The VR stuff was never boring or overdone. The reality show stuff wasn't intrusive. There was just enough of both to keep it interesting. But what really stood out was how well conceived the spaceship was. It has an artificial gravity ring, an Orion drive, and even the computer systems were convincing. For those who thought it was like 2001 or Sunshine; that's because it's based in real ideas for space travel. Ideas that come from scientists and classic hard science fiction, which those movies also borrowed from. This deserves at least one season.
If someone does pick this up.... by Naughty	Jun 27th, 2009 04:06:22 PM
as a series, I hope they take the reality tv crap out. Otherwise, it was nice seeing a "space based" sci-fi show on network tv again.
Hey, Moore: learn to write a script: show don't tell. by kabong	Jun 27th, 2009 04:27:45 PM
Moore got the deal, realized he had nothing else, copied the character bio from his pitch, pasted them into the script. So we get: "Hi, I'm Joe the ship's sanitation engineer. I like walking in the rain and cuddling by the fire with my special lady." Instead of staring into the camera, act and interact to reveal characters and advance the plot. Of course, the dumbasses at the networks don't read scripts anyway. Why would they? They wouldn't know if a script is good or not.
Why Fox? by scnjedi	Jun 27th, 2009 04:28:03 PM
I'm sure SyFy would have jumped at this. Why the fuck did Ron Moore go to Fox for this? Doesn't he know that they don't like intelligent shows on their network?
Take out Reality Show? by Cartman86	Jun 27th, 2009 05:25:55 PM
Take out the reality show stuff? Stop having characters talk to the camera to "reveal" who they are? Wow you really missed the point of the show. If you take that out you have nothing. The whole show hinges on seeing how obsessed we are with television and how it obscures truth.
the gay chefs by obi_juan	Jun 27th, 2009 05:27:20 PM
Airlock them both. I almost stopped watching after their first scene. The premise of the show doesn't make much sense to me. Earth is in dire need of sending people to this other planet, so there is this 200 billion dollar mission, but the crew can "vote itself off the island." WTF?
obi_juan by codymr	Jun 27th, 2009 06:19:53 PM
Exactly.
Too good for FOX by frankenstone	Jun 27th, 2009 08:23:11 PM
Too bad this wasn't a pilot for Sci-Fi, produced at Universal - then it might have had a chance. I really wasn't expecting to like it, after Moore's awful ending to Galactica and the lame Caprica pilot he co-authored. (Seriously, the ending to Galactica was so bad, it almost ruined the entire series for me.) But Virtuality was good, way better than the first few episodes of Dollhouse even. FOX could have made this work, with the right advertising campaign, selling it as if it were a REAL reality show. The biggest flaw to this pilot is the name - Virtuality is just too clever and too much of a giveaway - it should have had the same name as the reality show they were broadcasting back to earth.
fox.com now has the whole 2 hour premiere online!!!! by wackybantha	Jun 27th, 2009 08:27:11 PM
I missed it on friday so thank goodness I can watch it and see what all the fuss is about.
It's up on Hulu by Cartman86	Jun 27th, 2009 09:29:15 PM
http://www.hulu.com/watch/8003 0/virtuality
VIRTUOSITY WAS AN AWESOME MOVIE.... by ass clown	Jun 27th, 2009 09:43:02 PM
RUSSELL CROWE'S TAKE ON AN ARROGANT COMPUTER GAME VILLAIN WAS SPOT ON. HIS NAME WAS SID 2.0 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHAT AN AMAZING FILM. WHO KNEW THAT BOTH OF THESE GUYS WOULD WIN BEST ACTOR AWARDS WITHIN A FEW MORE YEARS
wow. by chiahead	Jun 27th, 2009 09:47:40 PM
I'm really surprised by the number of people who disliked this. As well as the number of people who didn't find the reality aspect of it to be completely crucial to the storytelling. Makes me curious to know what the median age and average reading habits are of talkbackers.
I dug it. by fyrie	Jun 27th, 2009 09:51:01 PM
I think it had a lot of promise, and the cast seemed to have some chemistry. The visual fx and music were great too. I hope they decide to pick it up even though it sounds against the odds at this point.
I'm old enough to remember good tv. by obi_juan	Jun 27th, 2009 10:21:33 PM
The reality aspect, so crucial to the story, seemed like a lame gimmick to me. I vaguely remember the Fox show VR5. That seemed way better than this.
unwatchable by animas	Jun 27th, 2009 11:53:29 PM
the camera work pisses me off so bad.
I'm beginning to think DS9 wasn't to Moore's credit. by HellKing	Jun 28th, 2009 12:26:32 AM
What a load of crap. Maybe Ron Moore thinks you BSG cheerleaders will love him reading the phone book. So anything more than that will be genius compared to it.
That was Excellent, great use of Chemical Bros by Stormwatcher	Jun 28th, 2009 01:19:45 AM
during the lauch sequence into deep space. I would watch this if it was a series. Well cast, well executed. Much promise. Too bad Fox always pays for scifi pilots and then dumps them.
Actually.. by kadayi	Jun 28th, 2009 03:56:08 AM
Much much better than I thought it was going to be based of the 12 minute sequence. My interest is piqued as to how they'd handle it as a series, though clearly the prevailing perception is that that's not going to happen.
Not very good. by Watching_Teri_Hatcher_Take_A_Shi t	Jun 28th, 2009 05:04:22 AM
Great cast, though.
It's good and deserves a pick up but... by lostbat	Jun 28th, 2009 06:02:35 AM
FOX IS GOING TO FUCK IT UP......AGAIN!!!
Can't believe by secretcylon	Jun 28th, 2009 08:19:11 AM
people are not liking this. Thought this was great, moody, creepy, thought provoking. I really like all the threads they set up. The pregnant woman and the doctor, something's going on there. Just saw some old Next Gen episodes, this is so much better in so many ways. Love the alien feel, lack of military, paranoia... Love how much deep hurting they've already experienced and the mission has only just begun. Oh well...
Cartman86 by Rob0729	Jun 28th, 2009 10:44:26 AM
So you would rather be mindless be spoonfed who the characters are by them telling you who they are or what they are feeling? The confessional in the reality show is a lazy crutch for producers to cut corners. In a scripted drama, it is even lazier since characters should be developed in interaction with other characters rather than telling everything about them. Lazy! Lazy! Lazy! Personally, I don't want characters talking to the forth wall telling me how I should take their reactions to situations. All you have do is watch the orginal Blade Runner vs. the director's cut that takes out the voiceovers to know which way is better. A good script and directing should never need to have the characters tell you how they feel.
chiahead by Rob0729	Jun 28th, 2009 10:50:48 AM
So people who don't want to be spoonfed their characterization through confessionals are stupid? Maybe you would like the director to cut in after pivotal scenes to explain the scene to you and tell you how it makes you feel. Sorry, I am such an idiot that I want to make my own inference on character's feelings and motivations rather than being spoonfed them. Sorry, confessionals are a crutch. It doesn't matter if it a reality show or a scripted drama. Maybe if we were to find out later that there was something more to the confessionals, but otherwise it is just cliffnotes method to develop characters.
BTW by Rob0729	Jun 28th, 2009 10:52:34 AM
It isn't ironic that the "intelligent" television viewers are always the first to bring intelligent debate on a topic to elitist insults rather than putting forth an intelligent rebuttal. Kinda makes you wonder who is the real moronic viewer.
FOX will get me back as a viewer.. by fanboy71	Jun 28th, 2009 10:56:20 AM
just as soon as they announce Firefly: Season 2. Until then they can go FUX themselves!
Caprica is better by Browncoat_Jedi	Jun 28th, 2009 11:09:36 AM
Virtuality was pretty dull. There's nothing to it. I may also blame Peter Berg. He's a terrible director.
TOO INTELLIGENT FOR MOST AMERICANS by RICHARD_GERE_RAPED_MY_GERBIL	Jun 28th, 2009 11:59:16 AM
SOURCE: U.S TRANSFORMERS 2 BOX OFFICE TAKINGS.
Too bad this wasn't on HBO by wash	Jun 28th, 2009 01:17:36 PM
I know they sort of dropped Carnivale, but at least this would have a chance of lasting a season or two instead of just dying at Fox. But this was very interesting. After Caprica and this I am looking forward to more post-BSG Moore stuff.
oisin5199 by Octaveaeon	Jun 28th, 2009 02:06:41 PM
Hey there! Question: What was it that you liked so much about BSG, and what did you think of the way it ended? I myself had to struggle to watch it through; the only reason I didn't give up on the sloppy writing, but more than anything on the frustrating liberties that they would take with the characters, was my interest in the overall story they were trying to tell. What initially got me hooked was the integration of ancient Greek mythology and the question regarding the existence of a one, true God. Although I knew very little of Mormonism, I eventually noticed some strong parallels (at the time I was looking for resamblances between the angel Metatron/Enoch and Phanes/Eros). Unfortunately, the ending, and the show itself, did not work for me; mostly because it misused so much of the potential it at times exhibited. I particularly felt that the portrayal of political affairs was too simplistic and naïve, and the military hierarchy that was displayed was not convincing. I’d like to know your thoughts.
Since people are mentioning Caprica... by obi_juan	Jun 28th, 2009 03:11:58 PM
It was a an absolute crime to kill off William B. Davis' character (Cancer Smoking Man from X-Files).
I actually liked it, but... by Razorback	Jun 28th, 2009 03:39:50 PM
FOX clearly has no faith in it. Friday summer showing = death.
really? by jloughry1976	Jun 28th, 2009 03:52:57 PM
I fell asleep to this borefest. My god I cannot believe that "critics" are saying that if your a fan of BSG you will like this show....count me out. This one was a whiff on Mr. Moore's part, it is a great concept it is just that it failed to deliver.
this... was... not... good by Tallguyme	Jun 28th, 2009 04:05:37 PM
swing and a miss. try again guys.
unlike most tv, Ron Moore's stuff doesn't by rben	Jun 28th, 2009 04:31:09 PM
make me feel like showering afterwards. well, maybe the rape scene. that was pretty creepy but it was supposed to be.
obi_juan by scnjedi	Jun 28th, 2009 05:34:24 PM
That was the cigarette smoking man? How did I never realise that?
Yup, that was him. by obi_juan	Jun 28th, 2009 05:52:17 PM
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm020 5657/ Since they were using him I figured that "Minister Chambers" would be a major character orchestrating all sorts of stuff behind the scenes. Nope, got bumped off. Makes me question the direction of Caprica.
I watched this last night by Series7	Jun 28th, 2009 06:23:09 PM
But my DVR ran out of space and cut off the last 20 minutes. Anything good happen?
Sienna Guillory - Inkheart by Series7	Jun 28th, 2009 06:23:37 PM
Yeah because we all saw that.
Cool by Cobbio	Jun 28th, 2009 07:31:26 PM
I really liked it. By the pilot's end, there was a tangibly claustrophobic, don't-trust-anyone creepiness I never see on television. Because, you know, it's usually reserved for two-hour movies like "Cube" or "The Thing" where events get resolved. I have to admit seeing it on television was funky. But cool. In order for new episodes to unfold, there might have to be some new "characters" created to keep things interesting, but I'd definitely like to follow this. Hope I get the chance. If not, oh well.
Want more please! by CrazyGnome	Jun 28th, 2009 11:19:20 PM
Decided to watch maybe 20 min. on Hulu before I went to bed. Watched the whole thing. I was glued. Awesome stuff.
Same here by kingoflight	Jun 28th, 2009 11:55:40 PM
i stuck it on as i normally fall asleep to something but i watched the whole thing, it was slow a points but it was never boring in my opinion. Even the hub cam views of the out side of the ship i could have watched for a few mins. The CGI backgrounds where refreshing i thought. It was like the designer said if we try and make it look real it's gonna look horrible so just leave it like that. Reminded me a little of lexx.
Ok, checked to see what all the fuss was about by Octaveaeon	Jun 28th, 2009 11:57:38 PM
But what an excellent pilot! Very well executed story and introduction of characters. But the ideas and themes that they tackle are what I've been thinking is the logical progression for TV, though just one step before the real thing: the combination of reality TV and the exploitation of apocalyptic sensibilities towards disaster. Hey, it's the end of the world! Might as well make some money AND get entertained, right? It's the ultimate ironic stance; a trap within a trap. Which is why their inclusion of VR technology makes so much sense. And I'm interested in the allusion to the mythological trinity of Sun (represented by the spaceship 'Phaeton', which is headed to the constellation Epsilon Eridanus; Eridanos being the river in Hades where Phaeton fell when sricken by Zeus), Moon (see the first two introductions of the VR intruder under a full moon), and Earth (the reason for the mission, and thus the existence of the 'Phaeton'). If I had to guess, the creators are looking to blend cosmological and theogonic myths with the way we relate with our environment and each other through the use of modern technology (similar to what they did in BSG). Of all the dualities they could develop, such as real/virtual, ascent/descent (transcendent experiences; Pike's epiphany), birth/rebirth (the VR deaths may be just be a foreshadowing), good/bad, it may be the male/female dichotomy that turns out the most important. In fact, the treatment of VR rape, including Sue's narration of her own experiences in the military, and the different reactions, namely the contrast between men and women, is probably a clue to the underlying message. After all, in Greek mythology (viz. Orphic), Earth/Gaia represents the feminine quality, Phaeton the male quality, and the moon combines both: it is androgynous. Likewise, in more ancient chthonic cosmogony, the first principle to arise from the void of chaos IS androgynous. One of these first principles, according to some myths, is Phanes/Eros: Love as sexual desire and unifying principle, and from which sprang many other primordial principles and deities (or, to put it differently, psychological and subconsious forces. Amongst these was Gaia (Earth) and Ouranos (Heaven; male), which would have remained united and blocking the arrival of their progeny (and eventually the race of humans) had it not been for the rebellion by one of them (i.e. one of the Titans): Cronos (himself later overthrown by Zeus). But that was all part of the "Golden Age" (according to Hesiod), and mankind is part of the 'Age of Iron', which may be what is being depicted in the show: the 'end' of the age of Iron.
Has there been a better TV pilot? by phool2056	Jun 29th, 2009 01:14:17 AM
Ever? I mean, maybe Lost, maybe BSG, but I don't know. I am instantly in love with the characters. I am instantly fascinated by the premise. If this doesn't make it any further, I will weep for days. Not really. But I'll be pretty bummed. Come on, Fox. Just give me ten more hours with it. Please. I promise to stop sending you all those lizard organs carved into characters from Firefly.
I hope the V pilot is just as good by lockesbrokenleg	Jun 29th, 2009 01:17:10 AM
Too bad RDM didn't get V. Now THAT would be a kick ass show!
People here don't have great reading skills apparently by lockesbrokenleg	Jun 29th, 2009 02:34:32 AM
There ISN'T a series! FOX didn't pick it up! It's just ONE show.
lockesbrokenleg by codymr	Jun 29th, 2009 04:17:45 AM
Is that the 411 on this for sure? I have been reading conflicting articles all over the net... some say it is a "series", others only mention Virtuality as a "pilot/MOW". I'd like to read your source, can you send me a link?
maze of death by philip K dick by Enderpilot	Jun 29th, 2009 06:20:43 AM
is anyone else reminded of that book?
A Magimix of familiar stuff from other sources... by HarryDean	Jun 29th, 2009 07:00:41 AM
... but I still would have liked to have seen a series. No chance of that now though, after those viewing figures.
First 2/3 ok, last 1/3 kick ass! by Col. Tigh-Fighter	Jun 29th, 2009 08:26:44 AM
Nice and dark and twisty by the end. Im hooked! More please. And the effects and music when they swing shot Neptune was beautiful! Way to go, Ron (again).
pisses me off by Crow3711	Jun 29th, 2009 08:47:57 AM
I didn't expect to care much whetehr this did well or not, but I supported it and watched it live, and now for the last few days I can't stop thinking about how annoying it is there won't be any more. Even in its imperfect form its leagues better than most anything else coming to tv anytime soon. Fox fucking sucks dick. And whoever said up above that Americans hate good sci-fi and are too stupid for it, you're absolutely right, and it sucks. The masses want explosions, not to have to think about things. I know I am whining, but its not fair. All I want is good, quality, thought provoking sci fi, and all of it gets shit on and cancelled in favor of the next transformers movie, which, by the way, thanks to the huddled, retarded masses, is raping the box office. I hate this planet.
"I watched Five Seconds. Two people were in a room, the guy sai by Big Jim	Jun 29th, 2009 10:04:42 AM
Two people were in a room, the guy said "It's something... extraordinary" I realized that's quite the cliche line in sci-fi, so I passed.
"I watched Five Seconds. Two people were in a room,... by Big Jim	Jun 29th, 2009 10:10:08 AM
"...the guy said "It's something... extraordinary" I realized that's quite the cliche line in sci-fi, so I passed." So you watched 5 seconds from the second hour of the show? Well, as long as you gave it a fair shake.
Sorry, but I hated it. by johnnyangel	Jun 29th, 2009 11:11:57 AM
The politically correct mixture of the crew. The reality show premise. The holodeck. The Hal premise. Sorry. First off, contrary to Hollywood propaganda, most male homosexuals are remorseless horndogs who fuck everybody with raw enthusiasm, not committed domestic partners. Second off, the most important exploration in history is going to be manned by a bunch of idiot assholes? The US Navy mans submarines on the basis of how well people get along with each other and this for missions that last only a few months. Wouldn't this be doubly true for a ten year mission? The computer gaining consciousness and developing a contrary agenda has been done and re-done. Possibly that's not where this show is going, but that's where it's starting out.
And the idea that we don't like the show by johnnyangel	Jun 29th, 2009 11:13:59 AM
because we're stupid is just offensive. Maybe we think the show is stupid. And it is.
Watched It... Here's the scoop... by Talkback1138	Jun 29th, 2009 11:59:45 AM
They're not even in space. They're in a virtual reality simulator, simulating a space mission. So you've got virtual reality on top of virtual reality, and in the end we find out they're all safe on some warehouse on Earth, and it's all been some sort of deep space behavioral study, or a Truman Show-esqe TV stunt, or both.
Saw MOON this weekend... by scrivener	Jun 29th, 2009 01:25:28 PM
...and it reminded me that truly excellent scifi really can happen when the writer/director/actors keep themselves reigned in and play it straight. I love nothing more than the idea that you can have a truly fantastic story that just happens to take place in another place or time - no gimmicks necessary. Virtuality now... it REEKS of gimmick. It's still sitting on my TiVo, saved until I watch it, but MOON left such a good taste in my proverbial mouth that I'm almost afraid to. After being fucked in the ass by the last third of Sunshine, then being subjected to Trek Wars: Special Edition, I don't know if I can take any more gimmicky scifi. I'll have to sleep on it.
Octa-dude by johnnyangel	Jun 29th, 2009 02:52:13 PM
Your analysis of the show was a lot more interesting than the show itself.
Ron Moore is having a hell of a year, creatively. by Jardinier	Jun 29th, 2009 03:33:11 PM
Yeah, I know, the BSG finale wasn't perfect, but I think it was a decent way of getting out of the corner they had written themselves into. I could criticise Moore for not planning the ending well enough in advance, but in the end, I made an emotional connection with the characters and don't really want to destroy that by overthinking the changes of direction the series had. Now CAPRICA I really liked. I thought it was a very dense pilot with lots of possibilities for character and thematic development along the lines of early BSG, before the mythology influx. Sure, there are connections to the mother series, but honestly, I don't even see it as a prequel. The characters and the situations they find themselves in stand on their own; they give added background to the BSG universe, but the series isn't dependent on the sort of "how will it lead into what we already know" tension of the Star Wars prequels. At least not for me (which is why I thought the Cylon reveal came a little early).
Good Science-Fiction is too smart for network TV by Jardinier	Jun 29th, 2009 03:34:54 PM
And even though from the previews it looked kinda sucky, now VIRTUALITY proves to be significantly more promising than expected. Of course, with these kinds of numbers, Fox will never pick it up, but it's produced by Universal, so maybe the SciFi Channel will? I say give it one full season, 22 episodes, a sort of lengthened mini-series, with a fixed, pre-planned ending. That could be something really special. One of the problems I had with SUNSHINE, apart from the crazy third act twist, is that there's such potential in the concept of a crew all alone, in confined spaces, for a lengthy period of time, and with a responsibility for the survival of the species on their shoulders. A 24h series could explore the ramifications of such a situation in much more detail than a 90min movie.
Rebuttals to some of the objections by Jardinier	Jun 29th, 2009 03:38:55 PM
johnnyangel: I guess the reason why the show has a Benetton crew is that Moore was criticised for not including enough (important) black characters on BSG. A bullshit assertion, I've always thought, but I suppose this time he wanted to kill all such speculation from the get-go. As for the mission, it was my impression that I was purely commercial at first, financed by television (looking for ad revenue) and that mysterious consortium (looking for new planets to exploit). Only after it had already started did Earth's climate turn vicious (remember, they didn't exactly reach Uranus in a matter of days). Rob0729: I don't think the confessionals are intended for us; they don't break the fourth wall, because they're not addressing us, they're addressing the fictional audience on the dying Earth. If the series had been picked up, I'm pretty certain Moore would have taken this into interesting directions. He already started in the pilot by including rather obvious cuts. As the series went on, we'd likely have seen the reality TV versions of these characters deviate from the actual characters. I can see how the pilot could have been boring to some, and I'm not even knocking those people's intelligence. Some shows just aren't for some people. For instance, I like Kubrick's 2001, but I'll admit to having had concentration problems while watching it. Personally, I thought direction, writing and acting worked well together to create tension solely through character interaction, but I guess tastes differ.
Caprica. God, what a waste of DVD space by lockesbrokenleg	Jun 29th, 2009 05:53:30 PM
Two hours of guys in a room talking ON A COOL ASS PLANET IN SPACE!!!
The VR glasses == 12 models note by growltiger	Jun 30th, 2009 01:29:23 AM
Just saying.
Pacing dragged at first, but there are cool elements. by growltiger	Jun 30th, 2009 01:47:45 AM
I think I bought into it when the late commander started to get manic and then gave the go order. Also, I was taken by the VR elements. For one, the civil war simulation was hyper real. For another, hearing the Munsters theme in Japanese was hilarious. Was that an Alias callback? And then it was turned on its head with the assault. And can the two women kill a virtual character that appears to be shared by a number of the Phaeton team? It is all intriguing to me, so I hope it gets picked up; however, the reported ratings are not encouraging. I will keep my fingers crossed.
So how does this work series-wise? by the ageless stranger	Jun 30th, 2009 05:54:38 AM
Is it definitely NOT picked up, or is it "wait-and-see"?
Jardinier by Rob0729	Jun 30th, 2009 09:53:57 AM
It is semantics that the intended audience was the fictional television viewers and not us. The confessionals still served the same purposes as if they were talking directly to us. It allowed the characters to tell us their emotions and thoughts rather than allowing us to infer them though their actions and interactions with others. As I said in other posts, if the confessionals would have turned into something other than a lazy tool for character development over time, I wouldn't have had a problem with them. I just think any time a character tells the camera their emotions, feels, or motive rather than letting them play out in scenes it is lazy writing.
Re: by Cobbio	Jun 30th, 2009 08:51:47 PM
Of course you didn't like it, TITBAG. Because you're you. Braindead observation after braindead observation, all culminating in an opinion so meaningless that you need to use ALL CAPS to make people think otherwise. Oh, and I'll let you in on a little something: the "annoying captain" didn't die. See what I mean by your meaningless opinion?
I... by radio1_mike	Jul 1st, 2009 03:27:54 PM
Like the show! I hope it gets picked up. Somewhere.
Loved it! by Loose_Seal	Jul 2nd, 2009 05:23:21 PM
Thought it was very interesting, some neat ideas were on display here, the acting was all good, and characters showed themselves to be both complex and entertaining. A pretty damn good pilot marred by a few contrivances in the script (female lead cheating with male lead on annoying science, two gay characters go out of their way to call themselves "queens," on the offchance the viewers hadn't picked up on it yet, etc.), and I'd love to see it go to series. Any news on that front, btw?
Hot damn that was awesome! by Calico Pete	Jul 3rd, 2009 01:24:44 AM
It just got better and better. I didn't have high expectations, but this was the best thing that Peter Berg has directed IMO (though I haven't seen FNL). I've got renewed faith in Dune, seriously. Things I like: Harsh Realm, the first 2 acts of Sunshine, Moon, The Abyss, interesting takes about a crew in a tin can. Always hated the holodeck stories, but this here was mesmerizing.
What? by High Grade 4 Eva	Jul 3rd, 2009 04:19:03 AM
Didn't realise only the pilot had been made, guess I should stop searching p2p for the next episodes! Doh!
Sci/fi if's Excapeism by creatorsid	Jul 3rd, 2009 09:02:35 AM
Sci/fi if's Excapeism with cool things that one day could end up in your pocket on your car in your home or saving your life ST, Dr.Who, SW, TOBSG, Statgate, Farscape, even Red Dwarf, Sliders, B5, Firefly could be a hard place to be but still fun. . But Ok who would really want to live in Ronald D. Moore's BSG hell even his Virtuality sounds painful.
MUCH better than expected by Kobaal	Jul 6th, 2009 08:32:48 AM
If there is a television god, this should go to series.

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