And I also freely admit that I was completely wrong about ALL-STAR SUPERMAN. When I first saw it, I didn't get it nor like it. It took me about 4 issues to really get into it. And then, by the end of the run, I was deeply saddened to see it end.

But this stuff looks really silly when viewed through the "Batman lens."

To be completely honest, when I read your headline quote at the top re: Shit-macher, I thought you were linking the look, feel and tone of this new Batman comic to those trainwrecks of movies.

The colors? The Toad? The flying Batmobile?

Look, I'm not saying that Batman has to be always a brooding, angry and realistically rendered.

And yes, I totally get that a Dick Grayson Batman would be considerably different than a Bruce Wayne Batman. I mean, the guy spent most of his life in a yellow cape with green speedos.

But wouldn't he also try to keep the appearance, tone and aura of the Batman alive?

I mean, beyond just wearing his costume? Wouldn't he try to "keep Bruce alive" in his day-to-day activities? Wouldn't wearing his old "dead" mentor's costume brood him up a bit? I mean, he lost his (second) father. And now he's wearing his clothes. That's kind of...dark. Shouldn't this darken up Dick as much as Dick would lighten up Batman?

These are, of course, absurd questions because we're talking about a comic book here where a guy dresses up like a bat to fight crime.

My biggest complaint is basically that DC seems to be shoving a square peg into a round hole here. Yes, an admittedly talented square peg. But these guys just don't seem to fit this universe organically in the same way that they fit the colorful, strange and fantastic fantasy world of Kal-El and Metropolis.

In fact, this new stuff looks and feels as out of place as Schumacher's vision did. It's just...kinda...lame.

If this existed in the ALL-STAR line (ie., was not part of canon but a free-wheeling exploration outside of continuity), I wouldn't have a friggin' problem. In fact, I would welcome the idea of writers playing around in that universe because it can offer cool and different takes on well established and often stale characters.

But DC has done more than that. They've officially taken away Bruce from us. Which seems really...odd.

In the end, it's astounding to me (and indicative of Dido's brain crushing stupidity) that DC would "kill" Bruce Wayne and send the Batman universe into this Technicolor dimension immediately following the release of a movie that went on to be the second highest grossing hit of all time and generated more new interest in the character than (arguably) ever before.

I mean, Dido must have a photo of the WB executives blowing a goat. It's the only thing that explains why he hasn't been thrown out on his ass.

What in heaven's name would interest a new fan inspired by DARK KNIGHT to check out any of these new Batman comic books?

I mean, seriously...this is stupidity on the highest order. DC is throwing away new readers by the truck load. In a time with continually shrinking revenue for the comic industry, that just seems astoundingly stupid.

But what else would expect from Dido et all?

so Bruce is really dead like cap dead? or is he fake dead like everyone else dead?

so have we discovered that Black Mask is Bruce yet?

I don't have aproblem with writers taking from the ideas presented i the Silver Age but as a whole the Silver Age was a retardedly goofy period in comics due to The Seduction of the Innocent and the Comics Code.

Grnat Morrison has beend allowed to run rampant on Batman and in DC all for the sake of his own vanity project. The introduction of Damien and the killingof Bruce were just devices so he could write this "psychedelic" Silver Age throw back story. And before all the Morrison defenders go crazy and start citing All Star Superman as the greatest thing ever, All Star Superman works because it is independant. Continuit free things are the only things he should be allowed to touch.

I agree with who said this is crazy from a business point of view. The Dark Knight was the most sucessfull movies in years not to mmention being the second highest grossing movie of all time. Chrisopher Nolan was able to wast the bad tast of Schumacher out of the public consciousness. Batman is the most sucessfull comic character out there and when new readers, kids and adults a like, go to check out the comic they the ultra confusing Morrison Batman and now this. Dumb, real dumb.

I have no problem with Bruce being dead and I'm excited the Grayson is finally Batman but the addition of Damien, the "death" of Bruce and the execution of Batman by DC and Morrison is beyond disappointing.

To make it worse what should be a milestone in Bat mythos is just going to be a footnote as this run will just be aplace holder until Johns' eventual Batman Rebirth.

Also, everyone saying they should have made the Batman books line up with the new movies: You actually want MORE editorial interference in comics? You really think that's a good way to write good stories?

I personally jumped right from the Dark Knight to Morrison's run and loved every minute, and I hadn't read a superhero comic in 10 years.

Anyway, I'm torn on this. Loved All-Star Superman, loved the Pop-Art-Bat-Ninja issue of Batman, but did not enjoy RIP, and couldn't even be bothered to buy Final Crisis.

This looks more like Pop-Art-Bat-Ninjas, which is fine with me. Morrison seems to be at his best when he's having fun (and isn't being too stuck up to let readers in on the fun as well).

I've still got pages and pages of great old Batman issues if I want dark n' brooding, so for now, if GM's on Batman, I'd prefer it to be the fun-loving GM, who I seem to enjoy more.

How do you know, Karterhol, that Dick didn't lose his father and say . o O (Hey, you know what? I'm going to HONOR THE HELL OUT OF BRUCE'S MEMORY - BY FINDING THE LIGHT IN MYSELF THAT I LOST - AND BEING A BEACON TO EVERYONE AROUND ME. I'll DO THE RIGHT THING AND INSPIRE HOPE - just like Bruce inspired hope in me. I will be optimistic, bold, adventurous - I'll make them fear the night, but I'll do it with a fire in my eyes and a passion in my spirit."

But you're right, Karterhol. Nobody's EVER CAPABLE OF DOING ANYTHING BUT BEING DARK AND BROODY IF THEY'RE KEWL. You got it, man. You get it. You're right. Power is in The Broodening. GET DARK! GET BROODY! GET SERIOUS! IT'S THE ONLY WAY!

the point is, people who want to put batman in a box marked "grim and gritty" and keep him there are keeping the character from growing. why the fuck do you want to keep reading about a 8 year old kid with survivors guilt that deals with it by dressing as a bat and beating up criminals?

the best batman we have had in the last 20 years has been morrisons "bat-god" from his JLA run. and guess what..... that batman was basically adam west with an attitude. who else could take out a room full of white martians with a gallon of gas and some matches? might as well of had "white martian repellent" on the utility belt.

"They kill you off in your book?"

"Real original, eh? Clark told me about this place. I understand they have a killer buffet."

"Yep, all you can eat and you won't get fat or cavaties. Personally, I keep waiting for Pete to show up. So, were you replaced by your fomer sidekick,too?"

"I think so. I don't really read that crap much any more. It's not so bad. A few years ago, they would have unearthed daughters neither of us ever knew we had and Batman and Captain America would be women."

"It's good to see Claremont's influence over the comic industry on the wane>"

"You training for the issue where you have to fight your succesor to take back the identity."

"Nope, that's another perk about being dead. We'll be ready without having to train."