Blame Fox all you want, but if you'd read the comics at all in the last several years, you wouldn't appear quite so misinformed.

Weird.

For fucks sake, don't make Emma Frost as a Human Disco Ball this years Flames on Optimus geek obsession.

It also sets up Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run which is genius the whole way through.

p.s. speaking of X-Men, anyone know what the big delay is with Ellis's X-Men?

Still, the day Harry went apoplectic and blamed the filmmakers for turning Emma Frost into a diamond will go down in AICN history.

For the record, Morrison did write a fantastic Emma Frost.

Sheesh.

Oh and Chris Claremont has gotta be the most overrated comic book writer ever. Terrible dialogue.

the Beast's second mutation was that he turned into a cat-form look ,resembling the Kilrathi from the Wing Commander videogames.

i dont remember the secondary mutations of the other xmen,i stopped reading superhero mainstream comics for years now.they simply suck nowadays.

btw Morrisons run was superb,he gave a new refreshing air to the xmen saga and created a decent backstory for wolverines origin.

unfortunately Morrison destroyed everything good he built with his New XMEN series with the last arc (xorn turned out to be magneto).marvel tried to retcon in a degree his screwup,the later writers ignored or changed many of the new xmen established facts,and at the end the franchise turned to a crapfest,well for me to read at least.

I just thought it was such a bizarre thing to get worked up over, since we all know the movies aren't the comics. Rogue isn't a teenage girl with a crush on Wolverine. Sabretooth isn't Logan's brother. Et cet era.

i knew that he releaved it just before the civil war crossover event,but i wasnt expecting that they will retcon this and again will make him reveale it,all these in issues of one year.

at least in DC the changes are more permanent,the infinity crisis happenened after 20 years since the crisis of infinite earths,and Oracle is still paraplegic.

at least thats what i read somewhere.

We'll just have to see what the reaction (or lack of reaction) is, from those in power. That is usually the more telling part. After all, remember the BBC's reaction when they were caught editing the interview between David Frost and Benazir Bhutto?

http://tinyurl.com/dnghcx

i believe fox deserves all this satire ;)

personally i think it would have been better to just ressurect colossus.its not that it hasnt been done again in marvel comics (jean grey goux goux aka goux phoenix)

the problem with adapting xmen or justice league or avengers,is the large number of characters.

in the comics you have hundreds of issues,detailing their characters and lives,but in a movie u have only 2 hours to do that which ofc is not enough.u dont know from where to start and where to finish.

i believe singer did a good job with the xmen comic franchise.it could have been better but his versions are not at all the crapfest some of you say they are.

personally i get shivers on how THE AYTHORITY comic is going to be treated,if someday some stupid studio decides to adapt it.i cant imagine what fiasko that movie is going to be if it will happen.

and he would have done this not because of his harmed pride and ego,but because the bully was bullying the owner and the other customers.

Just like GENERAL ZOD was a bully who was terrorizing the entire planet,in that way, the bully of the bar was terrorizing that small place.

superman had to do it.i agree with the rest of what u said though.

well to each to his own.

personally i believe that yes they were good adaptations, concernig the huge ammount of material the creators had to work on.

but regardless how respectful they were on the original material ,they were good movies.i insist on this.

She's just unnecessary and out of place for a Wolverine film and it smacks of the whole Fox 'insert random mutants here' mentality. Emma Frost makes no sense as a Weapon X prisoner. Her origin as a rich, daddy's girl who struggles to gain power and control over her family from her sister makes much more sense for her character. Anyone remember that solo origin series with the ridiculously hot Horn covers?

If you absolutely had to squeeze in another character, Storm would have been a better choice. Although she too was not involved in Weapon X in the comics, at least that origin would fit in with Storm's development through hardship and adversity. Which is the OPPOSITE of Frost's origin.

the more I hear & see of this, other than the basic origin (young boy, claws appear when daddy gets killed), the more the comic-fan in me is cringing. I'm glad I'm not bothering w/ midnite showing; I'm burning my midnight babysitting-card w/ Star Trek & TF2:ROTF; both of which appear to be headed towards worth pissing off my parents & spending my hard-earned 2-job bucks.

but that little ignorant,selfish,idiot snyder didnt even realise that.and he is supposed to be a huge fan of the comic.more like it he thought that he was filming another one 300 movie.fuckin cunt.

ofc its also well known what was his first ever origin/status,and what was the kryptonites origin.

its not bad that other media than comics,take liberties and introduces new ideas in iconic characters (i agree with raimis reasoning for the organic webshooters,i had the same problem since i started reading spiderman)which later pass in the comics.

the tricky thing is that these new ideas should be cool and good enough,to appeal to the old and the new generation and do not disrepect the aspect of these iconic characters.

Emma Frost will not make or break this movie. Finola Hughes did a fine character/power-accurate portrayal of the White Queen in the Fox original TV-film "Generation X" and it was a turd. Too bad, as the book was kinda fun.

http://tinyurl.com/d58vqa

well we will find out soon

I have no idea if this was only local Cincinnati market or was a national. It was in the good old days of few channels and very (very) local productions.

ZOMG!! perfect cast,just perfect cast,holy shit she would have owned the movie.

damn u Singer god damn u for abandoning the xmen franchise,jesus christ what an idiot.

Personally I'm kind of ambivalent - I dug on X1 and [especially] X2, felt X3 was crap (and that the whole Phoenix thing was poorly handled), but I'm also sort of an old school Byrne/Claremont X-Men fan. I'll probably just wait for this on BD.

what the FUCK is it with you? what dont you fucking understand?! you got any fuckin idear about 'EMMA FROSTS POWERS?'

gimme a FUCKIN ANSWER!!! what dont you get about it!?! OOOOH!!!! GOOOOOOD FOR YOU!!! and how was it? i hope it was fucking good because its useless now isnt it? FUCK sake man youre amateur.

seriously man you an me we're fucking done professionally. fuckin ass.

well to answer your question,although i am not a big deadpool fan:

deadpool is mercenary,one of the deadliest killer on earth.in order to save his life from the cancer he had,he joined the X-WEAPON program.he got the regeneration ability (much stronger than wolverines) which cured him from cancer but also deformed his body,turning him a bit crazy.

deadpools trademark is the wisecracks he makes all the time.thats why he is called the merc with a mouth.

essentially deadpool is a ripoff from spiderman.but with guns and a regenerative ability.

jesus h christ.were u going to masturbate when u would watch her in the cinema?

Good kneejerk times, good times!

Okay, so she probably isn't a MILF, but whatever. For most of the guys on this site, she's way hotter than they could ever dream of landing in the sack.

So the FOX Marvel Universe is *not* the mainstream 616 universe. It's something else, where things happened differently just like they happen differently in the Marvel Ultimate Universe or the Marvel (studios) Movie Universe or the Sony Marvel Movie Universe or the various cartoon universes or the various TV show universes. So THINGS WON'T BE THE SAME!

Yes, in 616 Marvel, Frost does have the diamond power, but she develops it later. In the Fox Marvel Movie Universe, she apparently develops it sooner. No big deal; This is the same universe in which Nightcrawler didn't remain with the X-Men, and where Jean Grey didn't encounter the cosmic entity known as Phoenix. This is a universe in which Warren Worthington and Bobby Drake were born a LOT later than Hank, Jean, or Scott. In this universe, Kitty and Piotr never dated. In this universe, there's no Lockheed. In this universe, Xavier never formed the New Mutants, and didn't have to assemble a group of new Uncanny X-Men to replace the original team.

IT IS ALL DIFFERENT, and that's OK because they've pretty much established that this isn't the same universe as you saw in the Claremont days, nor is it the Morrison version, or the Whedon version (thank goodness for that; Whedon's run is just crap. A lot of nostalgia and bad one-liners. Gods, he sucks in every way imaginable.)

Whether or not this Marvel Fox Movie Universe is any good is a subject for another debate, but arguing that "it's not like it was in the comics" is pretty stupid, because we ALREADY KNOW this isn't the comics version; They established that with the very first X-Men movie.

Or, alternately, just read your old funnybooks and don't go and see the movie. Then you'll never have to worry about it at all.

"I'll stop you from your evil scheme with my eye blasts, Arcade!" "I'll kill you first, Cyclops, using this giant pinball machine!" "Not if I, Storm, have anything to say about it!" "Nooo!! You've used your weather manipulation powers to hit me with a lightning bolt!"

Sometime in the late '80s/early '90s they stopped doing that.

if you want to recapture some of the grandeur and innocent joy of those Claremont /Byre days – track down the collected volumes of Grant Morrisons run on the book where The White Queen gets her diamond sheen. If you don’t adore them I’ll refund your $.

Seriously, go to Amazon right now and type New X-Men, Vol. 1 by Grant Morrison (Hardcover) and if you don’t love it unconditionally I will send you 20$ by post, no lie.

If you think you hate it now...just wait till you drive it.

And I understand Harry getting worked up about Emma Frost. I'd get pissed if they made a Judge Dredd movie and made him take his helmet off... Or they put nipples on Batman's suit... Or flames on Optimus...

I love Jackman, I love his Wolverine, but still I'll skip this movie because it looks like a huge stinker. Unless, by some miracle, it starts getting amazing reviews. Then I might reconsider...

He tries to inform us and jumps the gun before fact checking...holy shit, we better crucify him so we can feel better about ourselves.

Get fucking lives.

X-MEN has been floundering helplessly since the end of Morrison's run. He changed things forever, and a return to the naive, tights-wearing, cartoony, pure adventure style of the 90s comics has proved impossible so far. The comics now are grounded in too much realworld, serious angsty stuff.

thank god for the indie/alternate comics

from burtons alice

http://tinyurl.com/cv8qoo

i believe she would have been a good teen emma frost.

X3 was the biggest success in the xmen franchise,superman returns flopped and sucked and now rothman looks like the best businessman who knows how to bring money in the studio,even without producing 'artistic' genre movies.

and singer looks like a bad sheep for the super hero movie genre.warner studio not only wants a reboot instead of a sequel,but they dont even want singer to helm the project.i dont blame them,but god dammit singer just followed the wrong approach with the superman movie.he is a good director but he made the wrong choices.

Magneto was in fact an SS officer with the name Arnold Schwarzenegger ,and he was Himlers right hand.

he participated in Mengeles secret project which purpose was to create the first nazi uber soldat.

the experiment is a success.Arnold gains superpowers,at first he has the ability to shoot lasers from his eyes and spider-web from his ass.

But soon there is a second mutation,he loses his original powers and gains new ones,those of magnetism.

unfortunately the experiment has a side effect.he turned Arnold into a fag.and because that was something opposite to the nazism ideology,the uber soldat project finally is considered unsuitable for Hitlers needs and is abandoned.

the war ends,and arnold escapes incognito to USA using the alias Magneto.there he meets his true love of his life,a bold man called Charles Xavier.

Charles was an unhappy man because he lost his beautiful hair.it didnt matter to him that he also lost the function of his legs.

You see Charles was living in Texas where people hated mutants.and charles was a mutant.he could read peoples mind and could learn who was gay,lesbian,bifem or into beastility.

the people of texas got angry with that and beated him down so hard that he lost his legs and his hair.

but that was a long time ago,and now charles was in love with Magneto.a romantic relationship until one day,they started arguin on what was the best future for the mutandkind.

their difference in their ideology brought an end to their love,and magneto left leaving charles alone in his school mansion/super secret mutan thideout, which they had built together.

but that was the end of one story and the begining of another one.that of the XMEN.

in some comics it seems the former is applied,while in other the latter.

As for all the people complaining about Claremont exposition--we all take X-Men success for granted now, but there was a time when these comics actually had to be marketed, and when newsstands were a big part of sales. They had to be mindful of the new reader picking up at any given point and not getting completely lost. They did it in all titles, not just X-Men, though X-Men was very ambitious in terms of scope and number of characters, so it needed more of it.

Nowadays, they can write for a consistent loyal nerd base, but back then it wasn't that way.

Personally, I'll take the far superior imagination, drawing craftsmanship, and massively better character creation of those days over the decreased exposition and pseudo-grittiness of today's boring comics.

BTW what's your previous handle?

That moment I knew that was the kind of woman I wanted when I grew up.

so u can get double the pleasure when u lick her.

a friend of mine who is a chef,does this with his girlfriend.luck bastard.

Also seek the old Marvel Superheroes RPG writeups which were awesome.

thats why he has taking this movie very seriously and is promoting it so hard.i respect that,his intentions are justified,the only thing i dont know is how much is responsible for the creativity part of the movie.

did he have the final say so for the cast,the director,the screenplay,etc etc? thats what i need to know.

Wraith, Deadpool, Sabretooth, even Blob (though he wasn't a Weapon X guy in the comic) makes sense. Although this portrayal of Gambit looks pretty cool, he doesn't fit into this continuity and should have been in one of the X-Men films. It's like they squeezed him in because they didn't have room in X3. And Emma definitely does NOT belong.

heroes die,heroes are ressurected,heroes become murderes but later are forgiven,even we have seen rape in a superman comic.but at the end nothing changes.superman will remain a boyscout and spiderman a whining pessimist.

fuck mainstream SH comics.they have reached their full circle.give room to alternative heroes and universes.and i dont mean ultimate or all-star universes but something totally different.

something which most of us would have done if we had super powers,we wouldnt have been like 'great power brings great rensponsibility' or 'i just want to be a normal human being like the rest of the people'.

jesus christ has everything to be so serious? u have powers,fuck the rest of the world and enjoy your life with them.is this so hard?

its called balance of nature.ask Harry he knows about this stuff.

but as usual Fox screwed it up,and not only they made a worse origin but the movie sucks also by itself.

why should i know about his origin? why marvel decided to releave his past and his roots? by doing this,they destroyed one interesting aspect of his character.

and the sad thing is that they keep adding new things to him.at the end,he is going to become the Charles Xaviers lost grandfather.jesus.

then they go and lay it all out, and as usual, doesn't live up to the readers' ideas. He got raped worse than Vader.

after all he is a mutant,right?

Plus I thought Harry was a continuity hater anyway (based on his love of all things JJ...)

Nigella Lawson is HOT!!!

she must be a criminal too.

criminals are hot.

the english melon farm what is it though? a slang for big boobs?

Personally, I think modern Marvel and DC comics are crap, but there are plenty of people buying them who disagree with me. Although I feel vindicated in my revulsion to what passes for modern comics when I see sales figures and realize that the number of readers it takes to make a "hit" book today (around 100,000) would have gotten a book CANCELLED due to low readership in the 60s and 70s.

ok honey suck my dick,and u will get a part in the movie.hmm i am thinking about emma frost.she isnt part of the wolvies comic origin,but we can threw her in the movie.who gives a fuck about the fans anyway.now start sucking.

http://tiny.cc/CBGEX
http://tiny.cc/Dkv8i
http://tiny.cc/iVJ03
http://tiny.cc/DzLc4
http://tiny.cc/unydR

Where they missed the boat: Although Storm has her moments as a teacher, as written and acted, she was not the noble, 'goddess' character she should have been. Mystique should have been more than a sidekick. Especially in X3, she should have held her own against Magneto when she turned human. Mutant or not, she's still a bad ass assassin and conniver in her own right. Iceman was all wrong. I guess they needed a teen angst representative, but he would have been much more effective as a wise-cracking kid who was hiding those issues (think Xander from Buffy), then as a broody lovesick emo boy. In fact, I'd level the same criticism at the Toby Maguire Spider-Man - most of the time, anyway.

and the less said about the non-characterizations of Angel (again, would have been better if he was a snobby, rich pretty boy hiding the angst, instead of putting it on display), Colossus, and most of Magneto's crew in all of the movies, especially Sabretooth, Callisto, and 'Kid Omega'(??!!). Toad changed but he's such a malleable character, at least Ray Park gave him some personality.

This is why Emma Frost being so different is enough to make you wonder if it was just a random mutant that they decided to call Emma Frost, instead of actually doing justice to the character.

but i dont think that the powers are less important,well at least for some characters.the powers in some way is a part of their personality definition.

for instance wolverine cant be the same character without his claws and his feral nature.u can remove his adamantium skeleton and his regenerative ability,but u have to keep his claws.otherwise he wont resemble his original comic character at all,even if he looks and acts like wolverine.

Personally, I am of the Byrne/Claremont camp, and look at that as the definitive run. Sure, it was the X-Men I grew up with, but it also was the one that did the most work establishing the characters of the most popular members and established the themes that are still used today. The original X-Men were mostly a metaphor for the generation gap; the New X-Men of the 70s and 80s were a metaphor for those excluded from society, be it race, ethnicity of sexuality. It was Byrne and Claremont who made them the great social metaphor they became IMO.

It was Singer that made a 5-foot, ugly 60-something into a 6-foot, 30-something chick magnet.

It was Singer that made an orthodox Catholic priest into a self-mutilating pagan.

It was Singer that made Rogue into a screaming little girl.

It was Singer that put a 15+ year gap between Scott and Jean.

On and on. Yet it took X3 for all the hate to finally come out. Sure, Harry was off about this not being a faithful adaptation of the character's abilities, but even then overall canon and the character's own arc have still been dicked with.

I don't see this as anything but a logical progression in the Adventures of Knifey-boy and his Mostly Mundane Friends.

The thing is that Morrison did something so different with what had become such a stagnant formula, most of the writers after him didn't have the creativity or the balls to carry it on. Instead, they went back to the same cliches. Outside of the glory days of Peter David's 2nd X-Factor run a few years ago, none of the X-titles have been very good lately. Messiah Complex was a mess, for instance.

It's too bad that the X films didn't take more from Morrison, and been braver with things. I still love Whedon's idea for an X film (god, I wish he had taken that job). Oddly enough, he wouldn't have included the cure storyline that was taken from his own run. Instead, he has said, he wouldn't have added new characters, but concentrated on the ones we had, keeping it simple. He would have developed the Dark Phoenix storyline more gradually, and have the whole thing about the powers being more out of control and the struggle to rein them in. Wolvie gets more feral, Rogue starts sucking the life out of people (maybe some equivalent to the Ms. Marvel storyline, where Rogue absorbs somebody so much it drives her insane), and of course Jean getting too powerful. Which would then necessitate a Sentinel program. Not some cheap ass 'Danger Room' simulation. Perhaps the Cure could have been saved for the end or the next movie, but Cyclops certainly wouldn't go out like a punk. He would have been a main character. Sigh. What could have been.

yes!!! yes!! more!!!

Personally, I am not a big fan of Morrison's run or the idea of secondary mutation (just like I was not a fan of Singer's X-Men because I felt it focused on mutants as a metaphor for being gay way to exclusively, IMO). I admit freely that it has to do with me being an old time X-Men fan and I always thought mutants should follow Stan Lee's guideline that mutants (for the most part) have only one power (the eXtra ability that gives them the name X-Men). Sure there are side effects such as Wolverine having a great sense of smell thanks to his healing factor or the Blob having immovability to go along with his invulnerable and resilient fatty hide; or characters who are the exception (such as Nightcrawler having heightened agility, demonic appearance and teleportation), but for the most part everyone has just one power.

I know these sounds absurd, but it seemed more "realistic" when you limited characters to only one extra ability. Now, with two completely contradictory abilities, it just strains my ability to suspend disbelief.

Nope, AICN Talkback is more like Meth and Crack; hard hitting, foul,and there isn't a methadone like substitute for them, or this.

Ever since the Tards at Yahoo shut down their boards...this became one of the last free boards left to rant, rave, howl, and flame...and Thank God it exists. If for nothing else, I thank Harry for providing this space for us to talk shop, and smack...it is the last of its kind.

Now if they'd just stop randomly banning people.

Emma Fucking Frost is the LEAST of the atrocities that this movie commits against the source material. Anyone with 1/10th of a working brain should have known this would be shit from day one. It took Harry over a year filled with script leaks, shitty trailer, even worse posters and the grand finale..THE ENTIRE MOVIE LEAKED!!! If they SUPPOSEDLY reshot 15 minutes of this and changed Deadpool and whatnot, why are all the trailers with finished FX shots USING THE SAME FUCKING FOOTAGE?!?! This film SUCKS BALLS!!! Accept that fact and let it die, Harry.

But hey... you're "friendly" with the producer, right? Case fucking closed.

"The Gods have said that Kurzinski Valentine must now be banned!"

Oh, yeah I'm still going to see the Wolverine movie.

Oh and I won't be seeing Wolverine because I already have and it sucks.

And Nigella Lawson is one of the hottest women on the planet. As if you needed another reason to hate Charles Saatchi.

Oh wait, I just noticed the 500+ posts collectively handing you your fat ass over your stupidity. Never mind.

Further to that, its kind of common in basic forms of fiction or entertainment that when they leave their base country, and visit other countries they only show the stereotype, i.e. in the case of Japan, having everyone wear kimono's, everyone practicing a form of martial arts and living in old samurai houses, rather than the reality of Japanese living in a compact apartment, wearing modern clothing in a concrete "jungle" that is Tokyo.

I think someone said it before but in the old comics the travelling to other countries was really about selling comics and not so much about the story, "ooh wow an exotic location". Am sure they would have had topless girls in the comics if the could to sell more copies.

Her and Monica Bellucci have been in my top 5 for a very long time, and like a fine wine getting better with age. She is definetely a Yummy mummy.

As is Wolverine

As is Harry and his X-Men knowledge.

And for Spiral I guess Patricia AKA Cool Cuts Yoko would be perfect, since they are both useless near-lobotomized diseased skanks.

And Contintentaltop, can't remember if I've had this debate before with you or someone else (somebody's always bringing it up), but I will argue until I'm blue in the face against the claim that Singer's X-Men was nothing but a gay metaphor. They played up that conceit with exactly ONE character in ONE movie - Bobby in X2. Just because there was 1 out gay actor (McKellen) and one bi actor (Cummings), and Singer is gay, does not somehow make the entire franchise into a gay metaphor. If anything, the first movie especially was the MLK/Malcolm X conflict between Xavier and Magneto. As I've said, you can choose to read the gay subtext, but that's only one of many possible interpretations.

Gives more material to douchebags like Devin Faraci from CHUD to mock AICN even more.

Only thing that would make this shit even better is more Bale, right professionals?

Oh well... Hope it's enjoyable in 2D also.

He should have been a man and apologized for his mistake and admitted making a huge error *in* the story. Right now he just looks like a hypocritical asshole.

And just in case you thought I was dissing Morrison, I was just saying that I couldn’t get into his run as much as I could the Claremont/Byrnes days. Yes, having the X-Men becoming even more unlike there human cousins and have them be metaphors for post/trans-humans is an interesting concept, but it didn’t work for me (emphasis on "me"). Maybe the reason is because I grew up on a diet of Marvel characters, and especially the X-Men, as a metaphor for current issues instead of as about something that has yet to happen (transhumanism and posthumanism). While there are no mutants in the world, there is bigotry, intolerance, homophobia and prejudice; however, there currently is no trans or posthumans.

I am not criticizing anyone who likes Morrison’s run. I am just stating that it didn’t work for me, and the reasons why. I am also explaining what type of X-Men and Wolverine stories I would prefer, which I imagine might very well be different from yours.

Apparently, Harry isn't big enough.

Still hilarious.

There are plenty of stupid fucking Yanks AND Aussies to go around (though naturally there are more fuckwit Yanks as there are 300 million to choose from as opposed to 20 million Aussies). Try sticking to the point retards and stop unintentionally embarrassing yourself. "Nasty Lebs eh? Nice one.

Miyamoto, I getcha, but if it wasn't your American mates, it'd be Poms with the old deaf/stupid/talk louder in any case confusion, or any pretentious English-speaking country really. Or not even English-speaking - every time I hear tourists complain about being robbed and mugged by locals (in ANY country) I roll my eyes and patiently and politely tell them it may not be wise to advertise their money and swag by snapping pictures as they roll off the bus - wearing the t-shirt advertising the last place they went which is basically a billboard saying "take me!". People are stupid all over. Look at Mike there with the classic racist catchcry "You people" blanket statement! And without making that same mistake myself I must say though that a lot of the time that we English-speakers are the absolute best for racist snivelling about how others congregate instead of integrate, don't learn the language, get around the taxes etc. etc. all the while completely oblivious to the fact they're doing exactly the same thing themselves...

I'm guessing that after decades of X-men comics Mike and Magunga have yet to realise the major metaphor- that brings these posts full circle. Oh the irony...

http://tinyurl.com/d4a44x

And once again, I am not saying it is the ONLY interpretation. I am just saying that it is easy to understand why some people (including myself) saw the X-Men as being a metaphor for being gay (and no, there is nothing wrong with being gay, I just felt the movies focused to much on that group alone at the expense of mutant being a metaphor for all discriminated people).

I don't think there is any country on this planet that can be high and mighty about race, we all screw up on a very regular basis.

Its been very interesting experience going from being a majority (Person of European Descent) living in Australia, to being such a minority in Japan.

White vader good post, re X-Men, persecution and prejudice.

Saw this warped perspective in regards to the Transformers movie as well, some people were viewing the 80's cartoons as Lord of the Rings quality storytelling, rather than a fun, entertaining show which was used to help sell toys.

Plus how can you really hate Australians? They gave us the damn Road Warrior.

And Continentalop, you are damn right re: The Road Warrior (we call it Mad Max 2 though). I've done stuff for him too and as far as directors go, he's a good guy to work for. I'll still never forgive him for killing the dog though in MM2. That was the best dog ever. What a low blow... ;)

For relationships, it is Mongolian girls all the way - they are asian but tall, they love to take care of you and do things for you, and the ones I have been with have been very kinky.

Yeah, the dog was great in The Road Warrior/Mad Max 2. The saddest dog death since Old Yeller.

Look into your hearts, you know it to be true.

For the record, I don't want anyone to think my statement was meant as a slam towards oisin5199 - I was just stating an observation and my opinion. Besides, oisin5199 is one of the few people here who you can have an intelligent, civilized debate. I think I argued with him on two different talkbacks, and I don't think he ever resorted to any name calling or insults (the asshole).

As for what you were saying about trying to do stories by Morrison and Ellis, I personally think modern stories just don't make good material for movies. Not because the writers are bad or the stories are no good - far from it - but because they are usually built so much an already existing super-hero worlds and long comic book histories and continuity.

I think for their type of stories to work, you can to condition the audience first (kind of like how Hitchcock supposedly conditioned the audience to accept ideas he would use later). You can't really do there stories justice without it being maybe the sixth or seventh movie in a series (if even then). By then the mainstream audience will understand what you are saying about the character and the genre.

It might be slightly juvenile and immature, but I think it is the truth.

I also apologize for how every white American claims he is Irish (and then uses that as reason why they understand racism).

My great grandparents are actually from Ireland and probably suffered persecution. Me - I'm just another white guy who has had it easy most of his life.

We're not taking him back.

December.

nothing else matters

The Timing is all wrong.. it would be like if I started the catch phrse

"HOT ROD IS THE MOST AWESOME MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF EVER!!!!" ™

TVPILF = Television Personality I'd Like to Fuck

Yes it was. In fact, if you look at the driving force behind the British Empire, most of the innovators/movers & shakers were scots, particularly in Victorian times. Continued..."make the Nazis and Romans pale into insignificance in terms of arrogance, jingoism and good ol' genocide."

Really? Did you get an attack of TB vein throb? The type of anger that makes the hearts of sad little no marks beat so fast that they can't control their rage & so type venomous (& historically innacurate) bile? Or are you just fucking stupid?

On arrogance & jingoism, mostly a sterotype in American movies. Rich, snobby blokes in dinner jackets, living in castles etc. In reality, they make up about 1% of the population. As far as Jingoism is concerned, if anything, we put purselves down too much. Try going to Britain, it's virtaully a crime to be patriotic there,despite the fact that we should be. Unlike the U.S & Australia who constantly brag (although, to be fair to Americans, at least they've achieved things to brag about.

& to say the Empire makes the Nazis pale into comparison? Yeah, maybe their skin is a little paler. That's about it.

I just love how you started your post about how racists expose themselves on here, then proceed to spout total fucking prejudiced bullshit. Either that, or you're another one of these liars who comes on here & makes shit up to back up their point.

Jog on, muppet.

I'm going to bed now. Feel free to rant some more. I'll no doubt prove you wrong when I wake up. Until then, read some history books.

Most of all, get out more. Lose some of that pent up tension that makes you rant total fucking bullshit at a million miles per hour. Flash women in the park..anything. Be careful mate, those head veins can go "pop".

Also, BSB wins for coining teh term "TVPILF". It's truly classic.

Also, BSB wins for coining the term "TVPILF". It's truly classic.

I take it you still have a License to Trash?

With Morrison, I'm mainly arguing that by 2000, civil rights issues had been played out in the X-books, and it was time for something new. And I don't think the futurism of Morrison and Ellis' work is necessarily far-out scifi of the distant future. They are clear commentaries on contemporary practices, from the continual cyborg-ization of the human body and technology, to plastic surgery and transsexuality. These are different concerns from Silver and Bronze age superheroes - this is a genre of comic literature influenced by Philip K. Dick, Gibson, Ballard, Baudrillard, etc. (just like the Matrix, which came out shortly before Morrison's run).

Oddly enough, to go back to Animal Man, I'd argue that that title was a love-letter to the Silver Age, in which Morrison wanted to go back to the Pre-Crisis, pre-Dark Knight and Watchmen days, while still putting that Silver Age-wackiness through a postmodern, metafiction blender. Morrison's entire Animal Man run was tinged with nostalgia, especially the last scenes. But as is always the case with nostalgia, it's never quite how you remember it, and the process is never clean, as Buddy Baker (and Morrison himself) finds out. One of these days I've got to catch up to current Morrison, because I find it ironic that he's the one in charge of this Final Crisis thing when he seemed to be criticizing "Crises" so much in Animal Man. Almost as if he had to get Animal Man out of his system first before he jumped into the contemporary superhero. But I've never been an avid mainstream DC follower (mostly just the occult titles, thanks to Moore and Gaiman), so I have a lot of catching up to do (thank gods for bittorrent!).

But wait, you suck, Harry! You got it wrong! Now that's more like it.

If can you erase the memory of this movie from your mind. If any of you actually pay money to Fox to watch this movie, you and me are done professionally.

By the way, your ma says you're a cock. At least I think that's what she said..she had her mouth full at the time.

Personally think White Vader might have going a bit far with the "pale into insignificance".

But he is right in alluding to that the Western Europeans (Britian, France, Spain and Portugal) in expanding their Empires partook in mass genocide across the globe, the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australia.

Have not read a school history book in Australia in recent times, but from my memory they were never as harsh on the nations I mentioned in their history, as compared to the Nazi's or the Japanese. Perhaps if the Japanese and Nazi's had done their empire "building" 200/300 years before it would have been a different story.

The language used was interesting they "colonized" rather than "invaded". As an Australian (especially coming up to ANZAC day) I personally don't like how we glorify the battle at Gallipoli, failed attempted invasion of Turkey under command from the Brits. Would much prefer if we had chosen the Kokoda battle instead. Probably at the end of the day it comes back to the truism of history being written by the winners.

And yes, I agree, the mutants as a metaphor for homosexuality and sexual identity is probably the best use of it nowadays. Of course, that is what I have always loved about comics (and I am sure you do to) is how they can use superheroes as a metaphor for social issues or personal ideas. And with the great characters it can change and evolve with the times (or the character is tied to such a great issue that it will never get old or stale). Crime is never going away; neither is Batman. And the X-Men can go from a metaphor for the generation gap, disillusioned youth, racial discrimination, ethnic hatred, religious intolerance, homophobia, identity politics and sexual identity.

Not bad for a bunch of people in tights.

That's the thing though, White Vader wasn't "alluding to" the imperialism of Britain, France etc. Those are facts that aren't in doubt. In fact you can throw America into the mix too.

The thing that annoyed me was that he came straight out with bullshit statements about the Empire being a solely English thing (people love singling out the English) & that Britain made the Nazis AND the Romans pale into insignificance. Personally I found that offensive. Mainly because I was drunk, but nevertheless it was a blatantly stupid thing to say.

I'm not apologising for Empire etc, in fact, one thing white vader obviously doesn't know is that British people are extremely anti-empire & have been for a long time. But, as Empires go, the British Empire was by far the least genocidal of any. I can think of 10 right now that make the British Empire look like a charitable foundation. It just gets on my nerves when people talk shit as fact, because other people read it & all of these things become self-perpetuating myths. I agree with you, the Galipoli thing is weird. Even weirder is the modern Australian take on it (particularly post the awful Mel Gibson movie). Actually, war is my main area of study & it's weird to see how the old guys who were there are amazingly proud of it, despite losing.

But that's also a change in Australian society,in the sense that those old guys don't see it as being under the command of the Brits, as you do. Whereas now you have a very strong identity, back then it was just naturally accepted that Australians fight for King/Queen and country. Times change. These days you get a lot of Anti-British stuff, like people who weren't there, saying the British generals somehow fucked you over.Actually, they fucked over everybody, British or otherwise. But mainly they just fucked up.

I'm gonna stop talking about it now. I only replied to the dumb fucker 'cause I was drunk.

It starts off with the "decapitation of an officer", then all the way through it's Wolverine saying "I'll pull/chop/take your head off."

Most of Stryker's orders are "Pull/chop/take his head off."

Then at the end, Stryker sits there at a pc typing "DECAPITATE."

I think whoever wrote it doesn't get enough head.

I'll man up and apologise for the careless way in which I put it all, even though I'm not going to revoke the main thrust (and I don't think we actually disagreed there). As for "obviously doesn't know", glass houses my friend. The whole "fucked you over/fucked over everybody thing was bizarre too, as one doesn't negate the other, so maybe we both got our words a bit twisted. Got to get back to it now and I guess you've moved on but I just wanted to reply and say that while I stand by the basics of what I said, I'll take more care to properly articulate it next time. And yes, "pale into insignificance" was very very stupid. The vein was throbbing I guess. A death is a death, murder and genocide are murder and genocide, and I'm sure my Jewish friends would be right to disown me for that one. But Australians are generally jingoistic? O.Kaayyy thennn... Our 'cultural cringe' takes care of a lot of that and ensures that generally in terms of patriotism vs jingoism we wouldn't mistake "most powerful" for "greatest" nation like a certain latest superpower/empire. Like you say though, we'll leave it at that.

You might be amused to see over at Amazon.com there's a TB about America's education issues and the dumbing down of a nation. It's a good thing that people aren't lapping up the status quo and don't feel like political heretics for questioning their leaders, but when teachers are criticising the curriculum and literacy even while misspelling it... That's not a slam on Americans, that's a slam on stupidity and accountability. With a bit of irony and hypocrisy thrown in.

And good point about "head" - all this in a PG13 movie, too, beyond the obvious concerns about how such an inherently r-rated concept/character makes a mockery of the rating system, especially in cartoon form. It's all about the iconography I guess. Maybe they leveraged it by including disco balls, I dunno.

One thing hasn't changed though. Mike is still a stupid fuck and after his feeble "comebacks" I'm not surprised he's leeching on you. Funny he talked about the Dutch, boy what a can of worms that one is...

At least we can all agree Nigella is luscious.

Nigella is indeed the most edible thing on her show. Unfortunately, much like the pricey ingredients she uses in her recipes, she's beyond my means.

Think Hugh Jackman would have a good shot at Nigella if he tried, he likes the older ladies.

Maybe later writers have given a better explanation for her change in character and did some good stories featuring her, but I just think someone with her past track record would be capable of any redemption. This is a woman who was part of a secret society dedicated to manipulating the political and economic world by any means necessary; was part of a plot to use mutants as a natural resource and planned to use the X-Men as guinea pigs to see how their powers worked (and they were told they would probably be better off dead than what the Hellfire Club had planned for them); ordered minions of the Hellfire club to attack the X-Men, and when they failed she coldly had six of them killed; was prepared to mind wipe Storm, effectively lobotomizing her; knowingly supplied Mastermind the technological means to corrupt Jean Grey; was partly responsible for Phoenix turning into Dark Phoenix, therefore being indirectly responsible for the death of billions of aliens; kidnapped Kitty Pryde and planned on brainwashing her; planned on training Firestar to be her own personal assassin; murdered Firestar’s boyfriend, a mercenary for the Hellfire Club, when he tried to warn her of Frost’s plans; and these are just in the first three or four years of the character. Of course she isn’t alone; a number of X-Men foes have gone from good to bad and back again: Juggernaut, Mystique, Sabretooth and even Magneto. The constant switching from kayfabe and face is the reason the X-Men has long been the WWE of the comic book world.

How'd you pick your name by the way? I live in Japan, that's all.

Dingbatty, in the part of England that I'm from, muffin is slang. At least it is if you stick an apostrophe on the end. Then it becomes a verb:-).

You can't beat a good muffin'.

Dark Shite, MM, that IS a bit icky about Nigella. She's been through a bit, that chick. I'm not normally a boob guy (legs and heels baby), but she wipes the floor with bloody scriptgirl, that's for sure.

I've got a creepy story like that too - I worked for a guy a few years back on a very crap film that fanboys loathe (actually I've done a few fanboys loathe - not everyone gets to pick and choose what they work on but we do our best), and while he was a famous guy that was on things like Star Wars, Raiders and Aliens, it was a strange experience and none of us could get past he AND his wife having the same first names (and therefore obviously surnames). Someone said their daughter had the same too but I think that was garbage. Man, I don't even like the lack of creativity in naming kids all with the same first letter. I do still think it's funny though that my Dad has such Irish names (surname is more English though) that despite them being spelt the male way he still gets letters to "Mrs"...

MM, a mate of mine is over in your neck of the woods right now, visiting the Ghibli Museum. Lucky bastard...

Fuck it, I'm gonna go with Lucas anyway. According to imbd, Lucas had a long relationship with Linda Ronstadt. Therefore, the answer is, George Lucas' real name is Linda. That'll do.

I read once that all of George Forman's kids are called George. Now that's either fucked up, or a stroke of genius.

Just to reiterate, my main points were 1), Australians abroad are by and large annoying (and if it makes you feel better, I am one so no hard feelings), and 2) the British Empire can hardly be compared to the Nazis. Sure I was leeching but, shit, I can't let such a comment pass by without a second dissenting voice.

I sometimes wonder what colour Nigella's nipples are. You might figure they'd be on the darker side, but one can never tell. That dark hair with fair skin can be a mysterious combination. My penis had the pleasure of frequenting the vagina of someone who looked somewhat like her (although, obviously, looking "somewhat" like Nigella is like "somewhat" curing ebola; just not good enough), and hers were a delightfully rich pink. As for her bush, I imagine she keeps it neat and trim, but certainly not shaved bald. That sort of affectation is far below her.

God I hope Saatchi fucks up and screws some young little tart of an artist he's got under his wing. It might be hard on Nigella at first, but I'll be there to pick up the pieces.