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Alfred
by MattDomville
Feb 18th, 2009
09:20:54 AM
Looks like he's considering becoming Batman in that cover... That would be an interesting direction for Gaiman to take it.
Thor
by Animation
Feb 18th, 2009
09:23:43 AM
Am I supposed to buy Thor #600 because its #600 or because of the bimbo on the cover?
Yay! Comics!
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
09:23:45 AM
I've been waiting for this all morning. Anything to distract me from the essay I should be doing.
Really weird how the Gaiman Batman
by Laserhead
Feb 18th, 2009
09:23:52 AM
so closely resembled the two 'Last Rites' issues of the Morrison run-- a Batman going through altered versions of his own history; trapped inside the narratives. Still, I enjoyed it. Really.
NICE!
by SkidMarkedUndies
Feb 18th, 2009
09:24:01 AM
Well done guys.
And why does Batwoman get J.H. Williams
by Laserhead
Feb 18th, 2009
09:29:21 AM
and Batman suffers through a string of 90s-Image artists??? (not counting Kubert's two issues here, of course)

Bug, I feel a lot of the same things you do with regard to DC. Especially with regard to Batman. But are you going to be able to stay away from Morrison and Quitely's Batman in June? I can't.

Ah ... Loki is a post-op
by Animation
Feb 18th, 2009
09:29:30 AM
Cool. Its always nice to have a spin to sell your comic. :)
Dammit...
by Kid Z
Feb 18th, 2009
09:43:10 AM
...Thanks to Michael Caine, now every time I see the comic book Alfred I think Jarvis went on a crash diet and emigrated over from the Marvel Universe.
"Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader..."
by alfiemoon
Feb 18th, 2009
09:43:11 AM
The first issue of this story is the best comic of the year so far, for me. I hope that the second part lives up to the promise of the first. If so, it's going to be something very special.
Bug is right
by toshiro-solo
Feb 18th, 2009
09:47:34 AM
DC is a freaking mess right now. Batman especially. No one could truly have thought that Bruce was really dead, but - to show that to absolutely be the case within one issue of his "death" completely and totally negates any impact that Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader (not to mention Battle for the Cowl) could possibly have on readers. It just feels like the books are in a holding pattern until Bruce comes back, whenever that is. Final Crisis might as well have been a stand alone miniseries, for all of the impact that it had on the non-Bats books in the DCU. Trinity has the big three off the table and disappeared (or at least it did when I dropped it from my pull) but they've still been running around in their own books (and others) the whole time. There is no cohesion at all in the DCU. The only DC book that I'm looking forward to right now is Flash: Rebirth, and that's just because I'm a Barry fan. Blackest Night should be awesome, too, but - with editorial making it the next big EVENT, God knows what will come of it... It's really a shame, but - DC is just plain off the rails right now. Not to say that there are no good DC books out there, but the clusterfuck that has been the big events of the past couple of years has really overshadowed the good work that folks are still doing... Sigh... Rant over. For now.
Captain Britain and MI: 13
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
09:50:27 AM
You had me at "vampires on the moon".
ambush
by comicgeekoidtoo
Feb 18th, 2009
09:50:59 AM
I think you hit on something that's vitally wrong at the core of almost all the comics being done today, and tv and movies, frankly. Batman 686. Instead of these books trying to be good stories, (and I think expansionof the character is important but secondary to just telling engaging stories), every story tries to be THE BATMAN story. Stop trying to fucking to be the write or artist that is THE writer or artist on a character, you fucking fan boy turned creator mother fuckers! Put your stamp on a character by telling good stories that thrill and entertain and stay with us. That's how they used to do it! You fucking assholes
Nobody ever stays dead, so why bother killing them?
by Sherman_Lives
Feb 18th, 2009
10:01:45 AM
The one comic "death" in recent memory that's had surprising staying power, as these things go, has been Jean Grey. She died in the comics--that was Morrison's doing, too, wasn't it?--and in the third [retch] movie, and she's not (yet) in the new X-Men animated series. I wonder just how long she'll stay in the ground (this time). How long was she "dead" before? I'd want to calculate the real world/616 Marvel timeline formula: 1 of their years for every 5 of ours. Oh, and Dracula's a racist dick. Would a Muslim holding a crescent stop Drac the way a Christian with a cross or Kitty Pryde with a Star of David did?
Ambush, comicgeekoidtoo
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
10:01:55 AM
I couldn't agree more. Which is why after all these years Denny O'Neil's and Steve Engleharts are two of the most memorable ever. They weren't ever trying to tell the definitive story (be it Batman, Joker or whomever), they were just spinning a good yarn.
Sherman_Lives
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
10:03:50 AM
A Muslim holding a crescent should stop Drac. I mean, when Varnae met Conan the Barbarian years ago he was stopped by the holy relics of Valka and Chthon, gods of his era.
Thats ridiculous, comicgeekoidtoo
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
10:06:35 AM
Basically, you are complaining because some guy IS trying to write a good story, just with the wrong attitude? Ridiculous.

Look, you can't, repeat: CAN NOT, CAN'T, tell good "engaging" stories WITHOUT expanding the character. They are reliant upon one another. Ridiculous. Get a real complaint.

If you don't like the way a character/book/TV show/movie is being done or the direction they are choosing to take, then stop patronizing it! Just stop. Its easy. Just stop. There are no creators, ZERO, who set out to write a bad story. Come on! Just admit that its not currently your cup of tea and move on, instead of making a sweeping indictment of the pop culture industry as a whole as if you're some poor, poor victim. Come on, dude.
Favorite Vampire weapon
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
10:09:21 AM
Throwing Stars of David.
Nice call, Ambush
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
10:17:51 AM
Instead of more whacked-out Batman stories in the main title, let's have some respect for continuity. Let's find out exactly what the situation is, and why everyone thinks Batman is dead (do they think he died in a helicopter explosion? Do they all know about hm getting fried by Darkseid?) and how exactly did he end up living it up with the cavemen. If I was confident all these plot threads will be tied up, I'd be happy, but It looks like things are going to remain vague. On the up side, this whole "Battle for the cowl" thing might be interesting.
Joenathan
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
10:20:11 AM
I am going to take a different route:

Are movies a good as they were in the 70s? Ask any major film critic or respected authority on film (including directors and writers) and they will tell you no, that the 70s was a better period for film. Why? Because it was the way the industry worked back then (they were willing to take chances and cared less for blockbusters) and what type of films the audience were willing to accept.

Yes, the audience dictates what type of films is to be made (just like they do comics or other art forms) but it doesn't mean they make the best choice. Just like in an election, the best candidate doesn't always win. Well, in films and comics the best aren't always produced or green lighted, and even if they are made they are sometimes not appreciated by the mainstream.

Now, I am not advocating a change in the way it is done. I think free market is the only way to dictate what should be on top, just like how I believe democracy isn't perfect but it is fucking better than the alternatives.

However, that isn't to say we can't complain about the direction an art form takes. I can complain about what movies are getting green lighted and which ones are the most popular nowadays, just like I can complain about the way comics are nowadays, just like I can complain about politics and politicians. Going with the political comparison, how the hell are you going to change the country or how people see a situation without debate? Well the same applies to art? How are you going to get people to look at a situation another way without debating it. And sometimes that debating involves criticizing another sides point of view.

You’re entire argument that you can only stop buying comic books as a form of criticism is a ludicrous as saying you can only use your vote to criticize a political official. Criticism is the ultimate tool of changing people opinions, even about comics.

You can't play the victim, Continentalop
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
10:33:09 AM
You just can't. Boo Hoo, stories aren't told the way I like...

A. Thats an over-generalization and everyone knows it, because, if pressed, that guy will come up with plenty of ones he does like.

B. My point was, what that guy is really saying is: "I'm angry at the creators of the current Batman title for not telling the story I want them too, so I'm gonna throw a fit." and that kind of rampant fanboyism is not a valid criticism.

Basically, if you want to say, this is why I didn't enjoy this comic and then list your reasons, whether I agree with you or not, thats fine and dandy, its what we do here.

What you can't do is whine like a little girl, as if pop culture as a whole has had a secret meeting and decided to turn on you personally and give you the finger. Thats ridiculous.

So, to be clear, in essense, I agree with Bug, DC is a mess and I don't buy any of their stuff anymore, HOWEVER, my gripe with the other guy is that you are not allowed to take it personally.

Also, 2007 was a fantastic year for film.
Ok, Joenathan, I'll bite
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
10:47:46 AM
....and hate myself later. Plus, it isn't even comics-related (though I also loved the latest issue of Batman).

2007 was a fantastic year for film? Why do you say that? I am curious. I can't even remember what the "good" movies were and that is why I'm asking.

I am getting to enjoy the non-continuity stories told in-continuity (when they are good). So although the latest Batman can't possibly be in any sort of continuity, it is highly entertaining, and very well done. Much better than the previous, over-hyped but just decent storyline. And come to think of it, I don't know if Morrison and Quitely followed continuity with New X-Men and I loved that run.

wait....2007..that was "crash" wasn't it?
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
10:49:32 AM
I believe Crash won Best Picture in 2007 and that movie sucked. Really sucked! Or was that back in 2006?

From a comic geek viewpoint, 2008 was a golden year with Dark Knight and Iron Man. But when the best picture of the year is Tropic Thunder (IMO), I can't really compare it with the 70's.

I don't thin the argument is about that.
by Ambush Bug
Feb 18th, 2009
10:50:59 AM
I didn't see Continentalop saying anything about DC putting out stories only HE likes. He's pointing out deficiencies in the storytelling that's been going on and asking for an alternative. I believe the only thing he's asking for and what I'm asking for is a little bit of straight-forward clear storytelling. Some editor has to notice that the narrative in all things bat-related has been so fluid and scatter-shot, that no one really knows where things stand. If the editor doesn't notice that, he's not paying attention. Elseworlds, what ifs, future storylines, experimental ones are ok, but when it happens so frequently to one of the most grounded characters in the DCU, there's something wrong.

I don't need it spelled out, but a story where I'm not asking myself if this is a dream or Earth 69 or whatever would be nice occasionally.

Coming off of FINAL CRISIS, the editors should have been able to see that a straightforward story would be much more fitting and received better by readers.

It's not about what I want from a comic. It's about what the comic itself if lacking, and BATMAN #686 lacked the grounding that fans that have stuck through Morrison's run so desperately need right now.
2007 WAS a good year in film...
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
10:55:04 AM
...but I am not going to compare it 1971-1975. Hell, I have a hard time comparing it to 1976-1980 as well. But that is just my opinion.

Also, lets look at movies again. Only an X amount of films will be released per year to the theatre. That is based on the number of movie-goers. If said movie-goers prefer torture porn, guess what? I am not seeing pretty much any horror movies that year because almost every horror movie will be a splatter film. If Michael Bay-style action movies are the trend, well there goes pretty much every action movie out there I was going to see.

So great, my choices are now limited. I could complain to the studios, but they probably wouldn't listen because they could argue there is not a demand for the type of films I want. However, if I complain to other people, I might be able to make a grassroots movement that makes people realize that, yes, there is better choices out there. That is what happened in the mid to late 60s in film; a number of film critics and film teachers argued and criticize what they perceived what is wrong with American film, and their criticisms and championing of offbeat filmmakers shaped the taste and opinions of the New Hollywood Generation (Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Friedkin, etc.).

However, what happened in the 80s? American Film took a down turn (and anybody who claims 80 films are great has no understanding of cinema). Sure there were some good films, but over all they had become bloated and pointless. Well, what should you do? Keep your mouth shut or tell people when they ask (or don’t even ask) that “Hey, things were better in the 70’s! Those were better movies!” And some people heard those complaints and were inspired by them to help start the independent film movement, leading up to the Sundance Film Festival. . Well, same thing applies to comic books. If I see something that I don't like, I criticize about it. I make my argument why I don't think it works as a piece of art. And if there is a current trend I don't like, well I criticize the trend, especially considering the fact that the market is pretty much dominated by two companies.

what about
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
10:56:14 AM
Children of Men? Assasination of Jesses James? There Will Be Blood? Zodia? Eastern Promises? Rescue Dawn? The Lookout? King of Kong? Hot Fuzz? Gone, Baby, Gone? Juno? Ratatouille? Superbad?

I think Crash was 2006?

The idea of Morrison and Quitley visiting Batman the same way they did Superman makes me giddy.
Bug
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
10:57:25 AM
Continentalop and I were discussing the other guy's statements, not his own responses.
A lot of Morrison's run was set in continuity.
by Ambush Bug
Feb 18th, 2009
10:58:52 AM
It wasn't until the last arc that he left the reservation.

The drug storyline, the Cassandra Nova stuff, all in continuity. And really good too.
Continentalop
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:00:57 AM
I'm all for criticism. I'm against matyrdom.

Also, I'm halting the film metaphor before we get too far off task.

My original gripe was with the implied intent of the guy's complaint. Criticism is one thing and when well done, it does affect change. In fact, Id say that comics and the criticism of them are why we are all here. Fanboy whining, on the other hand, as if DC were waging a personal vendetta on your childhood is annoying and embarrassing.
I'd just like a Batman title...
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
11:01:07 AM
where I could follow it each month, know exactly what the situation is and have it pick up from there. I don't mind them doing Elseworld type stuff, I just like them to follow some sort of continuity. That's why I'm enjoying Amazing Spider-Man at the moment. It's by no means the best book out there, but when you pick it up each week you know exactly what the deal is, and they still do some cool (and some not-so-cool) stuff. The trouble with DC letting writers like Morrisson go crazy without any restraint is that you feel like you're reading a completly new book any time a new creative team comes on board.
Actually AMBUSH BUG
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:02:26 AM
My big argument with Joenathan here is that somehow we are not allowed to criticize comics because that is what the market dictates, or that we are not allowed to criticize culture. I found both arguments absurd. In fact, usually the best art is an attack and criticism against culture (The Graduate anyone?)

But personally, my post at 10:01:55 was exactly about what you are now saying. I just want better narratives. If I can't understand what you are saying how can I possible like it.

It reminds me of one of my favorite Charles Bukowski quotes, 'An intellectual takes simple idea and makes it complex, an artist takes a complex idea and makes it simple." I am looking for more artist in comics and less intellectuals.

Dracula on the moon...
by mullymt
Feb 18th, 2009
11:02:32 AM
Like in Dr. McNinja? Which every person in this talkback should be reading?
Joenathan
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:04:45 AM
You list the best movies of 2007 and you exclude No Country for Old Men? Shame on you.
The first half of Morrisson's run...
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
11:05:15 AM
... was pretty awesome. And the build up to RIP, with the whole "some evil dude has been plotting against Batman" got me all worked up. But, mind you, so did the build up to Secret Invasion. And both were dissapointing as hell. I'm just hoping Blackest Night doesn't follow the same trend, as I'm loving the Green Lantern titles right now.
I loved the Cassandra Nova storyline
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:06:07 AM
My favorite thing about that run, was the attention paid to Cyclops, not just making him a stronger character, but I loved the visor hand control, so that he was no longer unable to use his beams should someone bind his hands, a costume design flaw.
I don't think Neil Gaiman will write in-continuity anymore.
by rev_skarekroe
Feb 18th, 2009
11:06:52 AM
Gaiman: OK, in my story the Green Goblin comes out of hell and attacks Spider-Man on the planet Krypton!

Editor: Um, but the Green Goblin is alive right now. Also, we can't use Krypton because it's a DC

Gaiman: Fuck you! I'm Neil Fucking Gaiman! I'm a best selling author! They're making movies of my books, and they DON'T suck! You're lucky I acknowledge that funnybooks even exist anymore! Now crawl, worm! CRAWL!!!

Editor: Yes sir, Mr. Gaiman, whatever you say!

Cyclops Visor Control
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:07:47 AM
First mentioned in Giant-Sized X-Men #1. Good use of pulling out a forgotten little tidbit though.
Oh, crap
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:09:31 AM
I can't believe I did that, Continentalop, that was my favorite one of the year too. I must have just subconciously assumed that it was a given.
rev_skarekroe
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
11:10:20 AM
Gaiman's Eternals, that was in continuity, what with mentions of the Marvel Civil War and all that. But I get what you mean - big name writers come on board and are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want. I'd rather just have a regular comic book writer writing good stories on a title for a few years, than a big name coming and screwing up continuity over a few months, then buggering off to let everyone else sort out/ignore his mess.
Artists versus intellectuals
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:11:49 AM
I don't disagree, but I would say that no one sets out to do a bad story, so saying: "just write good stories" is silly. Anyway, critize art and culture all you want, just don't critize water for being wet.
Really, as embittered as we bat-fans are, I want to know
by Laserhead
Feb 18th, 2009
11:13:33 AM
Can you keep from buying Morrison and Quitely's Batman?

Fuck no. At least for me.

I had a problem with Gaiman's Eternals
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:14:27 AM
I just felt like they were not the same characters that Krbry made. I mean, Sprite in Kirby's run mischievous, yes, but he is also noble helping The Forgotten One in his fight against the Celestials. But Gaiman just came up with this "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if ZUras killed a kid at the end" and then proceeded to think of a justification for him to do it.

Plus, they insinuate that the Eternals are all hundreds of thousands years old. Ikarus is like a third generation or fourth generation Eternal, and is like 40,000 years old.

Just little things like that drove me nuts.

Joenathan
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
11:14:54 AM
I wish water wasn't wet. It'd be great to go swimming and not have to dry off afterwards...
I will buy it
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:15:37 AM
Because really, when somebody calls Morrison a hack because of FC, all you have to do is say: What about All Star Superman and they go: Oh yeah...
you and me both, PG
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:17:08 AM
you and me both... fucking water...
I read both volumes of All-Star Superman last weekend
by Laserhead
Feb 18th, 2009
11:18:02 AM
Tears in my fucking eyes. So much I hadn't noticed when picking it up every three months. "One day they will join you in the sun." "All that is impure will be burned away, and only what is strong and true will remain." I think, as a man, you get three cries your entire life. So I used one of mine on All-Star Superman.

Felt good to admit that.

Well, Marvel screwed up The Eternals way before Gaiman.
by rev_skarekroe
Feb 18th, 2009
11:18:06 AM
Kirby intended for them to exist in their own universe. Then they got shoe-horned into the Marvel Universe, which was a bad idea for a lot of reasons.
All Star Superman
by The Penultimate Gunslinger
Feb 18th, 2009
11:18:33 AM
was prett awesome. But maybe Morrisson should stick to out-of-continuity stories. They seem to suit him better.
Yes, no one sets out to write a bad story...
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:18:34 AM
...just like no politician sets out to run this country into the ground.

And yes, you can't criticize water for being wet, but you can criticize it if it constantly tries to douse you. The same with how you can criticize America for the last eight years and our "spend like it will never end" mentality we had.

Yeah, the Eternals were never meant to be in Mainstream marvel
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:20:37 AM
But I was always glad they were. The Celestials are just to fucking cool not to have floating around the Marvel Universe.
yes, Continetalop
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:23:28 AM
You CAN critize water for its ACTIONS, just not its state of being.

Also, you can critize softened water for tasting weird...
Well culture is ACTIONS
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:28:08 AM
I can't criticize a culture if it doesn't do something. Unless I am going to criticize their laziness or indifference.

And being a violent culture or a sexist culture or a jaded, cynical culture isn't a state of being, that is an ACTION. They choose to be that way. A state of being would be to criticize someone for their race or gender or age or something like that.

Gaiman's Eternals was simply boring and slow
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
11:30:31 AM
I don't think Gaiman is as good as he used to be. But he is still good...mostly doing kid stuff now...Coraline is awesome!

The Eternals wasn't bad, but it wasn't much of anything. Very little happened and it was dull. There was one really good Eternals limited series a long time ago, dealing with the romance of Thena and the Deviant guy, can't remember the name.

Ok, I'll stop after this, I swear. But the only movie listed I really liked from 2007 was King of Pong. I was underwhelmed by TWBB and NCFOM, both by filmmakers who I generally love. But Blood is no Boogie Nights and Country is no Fargo. Probably some will say Blood and Country are superior, but not me. Those movies were more artistic exercises and left me cold. Unlike the 90's work of their creators.

Brolin is a perfect choice to play Jonah Hex! That is awesome. And Malkovich as the villain? This should be another outstanding comic movie.

ContinentalOp
by Laserhead
Feb 18th, 2009
11:31:52 AM
I completely agree with you, but I've had the exact same debate with the same person, and no matter what pearls of logic and reason you toss out, you're ice-skating uphill. The quick-leaps to argument through analogy, the narrow framing of the issue, etc.

Save yourself, or you'll hate yourself in the morning.

Homer Sexual
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:34:15 AM
Deviants name was Kro.

Do you mean King of Pong of King of Kong? While I prefer Fargo, No Country for Old Men was a damned good movie. Maybe even great.

As for There Will Be Blood, I found it vastly superior to Boogie Nights. Truth be told, I am not that big of Boogie Nights fan. I find it trying to be a mix of Scorsese and Altman but with none of the power. But that is just my opinion.

Laserhead
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
11:36:54 AM
The funny thing is I have read both "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and "The 48 Laws of Power" and they both tell you to avoid arguments. They never change a persons opinion and leave both sides sticking to their guns. And yet I keep trying when I am here. I guess I never learn.
Joenathan is a moron
by comicgeekoidtoo
Feb 18th, 2009
11:44:24 AM
who doesnt know how to read a post. go fuck yerself and read my post again.
Continentalop
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:44:36 AM
I think we're argueing semantics AND wandering a little far a field, metaphorically.

Either way, the transiet nature of comics is just the way it is. BIG stories now become little discarded ones later. I'd rather complain about how terrible Leifeld is, then bother railing against something that has always been and always will be.

Of course... I guess Leifeld has always sucked, so... six of one, half dozen of the other...
im so fucking tired
by comicgeekoidtoo
Feb 18th, 2009
11:45:32 AM
OF MORONS like Joenathan picking a fight out of thing air because he doesn't know how to read.
Bloodwynd
by fiester
Feb 18th, 2009
11:45:35 AM
Seems like a really good example of what happens when white guy nerds try to write black characters--I'm not saying it's impossible, but more often than not in the past they have fallen flat or worse. I think things are different now: comic writers can have a black character who is not from the ghetto or Africa.
comicgeekoidtoo
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:46:23 AM
No, I will not! Thank you very much.
thing air?
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
11:47:30 AM
Was that my lack of readin or your lack of spelling? I'm not sure, because I don't know how to read...
Thor and 80's Movies
by gooseud
Feb 18th, 2009
01:02:07 PM
Thor is indeed the cat's meow, if you arent reading it, you might be mentally retarded. Also, the 70's were the pinnacle of filmaking, but the 80's were the action movie pinnacle. Aliens is, quite simply, the greatest sci-fi action movie ever made. Go watch Predator now, in 2009, and it looks like it could be released in theaters tomorrow (and be so bad-ass that the candy ass 17 year olds of today would piss their pants watching it). Lethal Weapon, Robocop, all classics. To say nothing of the works of John Carpenter! For anyone who thinks today's bullshit action movies could hold Carpenter's dick, I have three words for you: Six Demon Bag.

by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
01:06:45 PM
White Guys Writing Black Characters.
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
01:15:53 PM
Obviously, this sort of discussion is tricky since no one can only write themself. Although Bendis certainly tries (sorry, couldn't resist).

That said, when I finally learned that Christopher Priest was white, I was shocked because his Black Panther just seemed so authentic. Moreso than Hudlin, who is black. So it can be done, but is often done poorly.

Thanks for the Kro i.d. That was a good one. The art was subpar by today's standards but the story was very good. Mostly everything I know about the Eternals came from that series.

Don't hate me, but I read that Thor and I liked it, but I didn't think it was the cat's meow. Loki's setup was pretty obvious and standard, though the fight scene was good.

Hey Bug, what's the first book you read...
by Squashua
Feb 18th, 2009
01:20:13 PM
...when you get to the toilet after coming back from the comic store? :D
HS - C. P. is white?
by Squashua
Feb 18th, 2009
01:22:05 PM
I thought Priest was black. Yep, he's black. Jim Owsley.

http://tinyurl.com/owsley
HS - the British Sci-Fi Writer C.P. is white.
by Squashua
Feb 18th, 2009
01:25:51 PM
Different guy, same name.

http://tinyurl.com/bj6q2c
Ok, something is wrong here.
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
01:30:03 PM
Christopher Priest is, I think, British and he writes mostly novels. He wrote The Prestige, which I read because I was a fan of the Black Panther when he wrote it. He is credited with writing both Panther and Prestige, as well as a lot more.

I have heard that Wikipedia can be unreliable, though I have never found it to be so. And that listing is amazingly detailed. However, it makes no mention of him also being a novelist, writing the Prestige or other non-comic material. So I think that Priest the novelist/comic writer is more likely real than the comic writer who changed his name. Especially because, I think, he couldn't be a published author and legally change his name and publish under the name of another author. Otherwise, I could call myself Chuck Pahlaniuk and get published.

Well, shut my mouth.
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
01:39:05 PM
I guess since comic writer uses the "J" he can get by. Like the long-forgotten Melrose Place actress Vanessa L. Williams.

No wonder his Panther seemed so real. Sadly, judging by his Wiki description, he sounds like a jerk. I am so old I can actually remember Jim Owsley.

There are far too many comic writers
by Snookeroo
Feb 18th, 2009
01:40:30 PM
who SET OUT to write an epic, not just a good story.

Those are two different goals. And frankly, right now I'd just settle for some good stories

And I agree -- The Amazing Spider-Man has been pretty consistent lately with spinning some good yarns. Notice how I worked "spinning" into that. Heh.
Isn't Aja on Iron Fist
by kenjinattix
Feb 18th, 2009
01:45:13 PM
Thats a regular gig right?
I definitely owe Jim Owsley a favor.
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
01:47:18 PM
Because I would never have read The Prestige if not for him, and that book is really outstanding.

I remember lots of the stuff he wrote under his original name, liked most of it, like Power Man/Iron Fist, but that name change is really weird. Really. Weird.

Aja's Avengers
by Homer Sexual
Feb 18th, 2009
01:48:11 PM
Looked awesome! It looked so good, in fact, that I was slow to pick up on the ridiculous Lee writing.
proved my point loser
by comicgeekoidtoo
Feb 18th, 2009
01:51:56 PM
the gaiman story
by comicgeekoidtoo
Feb 18th, 2009
01:52:40 PM
is it final proof that he just wants to be Alan Moore in the worst way?
about time Fables got some props
by v1cious
Feb 18th, 2009
01:59:44 PM
this one of the best reads out there right now. with the introduction Mister Dark, this series has been taken to a whole new level.
Shit, I'll buy NONE of these and go back to read Sandman
by DOGSOUP
Feb 18th, 2009
02:12:56 PM
I got the 4 bigass tomes might as well justify the $400 once again
Continentalop
by hst666
Feb 18th, 2009
02:14:12 PM
I perfectly understand your point and in no way agree with the mischaracterizations and arguments of Joenathan

However, I have one small quibble about your movie statemnents. I refer specifically to the following:

"That is what happened in the mid to late 60s in film; a number of film critics and film teachers argued and criticize what they perceived what is wrong with American film, and their criticisms and championing of offbeat filmmakers shaped the taste and opinions of the New Hollywood Generation (Coppola, Scorsese, Spielberg, Friedkin, etc.)."

I don't know who fed you that line of bullshit, but that is not quite right. It is true that many late 60s through early 80s learned more sophisticated techniques and absorbed more foreign techniques and ideas into their work. However, the primary reason that American Cinema flourished in that period can be summarized n one word - "Television"

Due to the spread of TV, Movie sales dropped considerably until by the early 60s movies were no longer considered a great investment. By the late 60s, the only people primarily involved were people who loved movies. This created the atmosphere necessary for actual artists to flourish. Star Wars was the beginning of the end, although I will say the period between 1977 and 1982 still didn't have the full-on blockbuster mentality either.

It is thue that many "Creators" in the late 60s...
by hst666
Feb 18th, 2009
02:15:11 PM
six demon bag
by Joenathan
Feb 18th, 2009
02:51:06 PM
Did you pay your dues, Jack?

Yes sir, the check is in the mail.
I wouldn't worry, Continentalop.
by stones_throw
Feb 18th, 2009
03:21:22 PM
The worst case scenario would be WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE MAN OF TOMORROW? with Batman pasted in over Superman, but despite the title, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE CAPED CRUSADER? isn't really that at all. The title actually does have some significance beyond the reference to Moore's story, since all the guests are literally trying to work out what happened to Batman. Although it's not quite as cool as Moore's title, since that could have been the article Lois Lane was writing as well as a resolution for the Earth-1 Superman.
stones_throw
by comicgeekoidtoo
Feb 18th, 2009
03:34:53 PM
fair enough.
Random Thoughts
by Fygar
Feb 18th, 2009
03:46:22 PM
-Morrison seems more concerned with showing off how much comic trivia he knows than writing a good story. -Ok, so Batman died in a helicopter explosion, but also got killed by Darkseid, and by the way, he is also a caveman. WTF???? -DC needs to make a difinitive decision about continuity whether it be a single universe, 52 universes, or whatever. Just make up your minds! -Let's have some writers that love the characters more than themselves.
hst666,gooseud
by Continentalop
Feb 18th, 2009
05:47:09 PM
Hst666: Ok, I admit it was an overly simplified explanation; obviously other things helped bring about the New Hollywood Wave of filmmakers. One of those things was the collapse of the studio system helped in part by television. But still, the studios would have continued turing out crap if it wasn't for a bunch of young, hungry filmmakers who thought the system needed to be overturned. I mean, if they hadn't come in the big studios would still be happy turning out films like Dr. Doolittle and Helly, Dolly.

gooseued: Yes, the 80s had many good genre flicks, and was kind of a golden age for sci-fi and horror movies (excluding the slasher films which became ubiquitous with the decade). But for action movies, I am still going to go with the 70s: French Connection, the Seven-Ups, Rolling Thunder, the Warriors, Taking of Pelham One Two Three, Dirty Harry, the Gauntlet, Death Wish, and, hell, even Apocalypse Now could be considered an action movie.

I just got five words for you: Warriors, come out to pla-a-a-ay!

I'm Directing A WARRIORS Spin Off
by Buzz Maverik
Feb 18th, 2009
08:43:21 PM
It's called BASEBALL FURIES. Wrote the script years ago. The premise: after getting their asses handed to them by Ajax and the boyz, three of the Furies were dragged off by a mad scientist performing cryogenic experiments. They were frozen but the process was imperfect so their bodies aged while they retained the "minds" of 17 year old boppers, can ya dig it, suckahs? After the scientist dies from too many whippets, the "boyz" unthaw in a world they no longer know. I've got Kevin Costner, Dennis Quaid and Ving Rhames starring. James Remar is going to reprise his role as Ajax. Tony Danza will finally get to play Swan (he quit the first time because the producers wouldn't let him box during filming). So you know what this means, right? I'm jetting off to England to get measured for my Purdy. I know just the engravings I want. This job is just in time, as my last H2 needs an oil change and I'm running low of Cuban cigars.
Currently Scripting BAD NEWS WATHCMEN
by Buzz Maverik
Feb 18th, 2009
08:54:14 PM
INT. ARCADE -- NIGHT

Laurie faces Walter at the air hockey table.

LAURIE:"Alright, if I win, you play for the Watchmen."

WALTER:"And if I win?"

INT. OWL SHIP -- NIGHT

An angry Laurie throws herself into the passenger seat.

COMEDIAN:"What happened?"

LAURIE:"I have to go torture Topknots with him Friday night."

COMEDIAN:"What? Are you kidding? Girls your age don't torture topknots."

LAURIE:"They do too. Where have you been?"

Continental: Action Movies
by gooseud
Feb 18th, 2009
09:11:40 PM
We are both right, in that the 70's action was more gritty (although early 80's Road Warrior/Escape From NY was plenty gritty) and 80's action was more effects driven and flashy (not a bad thing when CGI isnt involved). Thats more a case of personal taste more then merit, although I will always state that Lethal Weapon, completely untouched in every way aside from removing Mel's mullet and adjusting the Vietnam aspects, is a 150 mil blockbuster today. Its amazing how well that movie holds up as a pure action kickass. You will never hear me argue AGAINST the merits of Dirty Harry and Apocalypse Now, I just personally prefer the 80's stuff. Regardless, everything that came after couldnt hold the dick of the 70s/80s, with the sanitized, lowest common denominator PG-13 "action", if you can call it that. If I have to see one more PG-13 "cut away just as the monster attacks so we dont have to show blood" crapfest, I'll scream.
China is here, Mr. Burton
by gooseud
Feb 18th, 2009
09:16:12 PM
What does that mean, anyway? China is here? I dont even know what the hell that means.
Stoney.
by MikeTheSpike
Feb 18th, 2009
10:10:33 PM
"a reference to Alan Moore’s classic “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?”, by the way." We know. We're posting to an online BB about comic books. We're all well aware.
the problem with batman...
by sonnyhooper
Feb 18th, 2009
11:42:40 PM
....is that he is beyond being just a "comic book character" anymore. batman and superman are basically bigger than the medium that spawned them and because of that, it almost becomes impossible to stuff them back into the "box" that is the monthly comic book.

i understand the frustration of every writer trying to write "THE" batman story. i really do. but the thing is, it's been almost 25 years since BATMAN; YEAR ONE came out, so the character is in desperate need of the next "definitive" story. i think all that morrison and gaimen are trying to do is show the average rabid fan boy that batman does indeed have a history that started long before frank miller showed up and is going to have to embrace the entire history to move forward.

having said that, i go back to my original point. i think when you are dealing with the icons (superman and batman) the only way to go is to throw "continuity" out the fucking window. reading ALL STAR SUPERMAN makes it all too clear to me. sure, maybe you need continuity to make characters like aquaman, or thor, or the x-men or the hulk interesting. but when you are doing stories about modern myths that transcend the comic medium, like batman and superman do, the only "continuity" you need to stick to is the basic truths of their origins.

The "problem" with big event stories
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
12:34:38 AM
While I don’t like big event stories and “the next big _____ story” I will say I can’t hold the writers and publishers completely responsible. They are only giving the audience what they want. The readers of modern comics want big events and storylines that completely alter everything about that character. So the writers are only giving them what they want. Still, I prefer stories that are much less on “importance” and more emphasis on “interesting.”

That is why I like Captain Britain & MI:13. It still exists within the Marvel Universe continuity, but it is far enough away that it isn’t bogged down by the need to make earth-shattering storylines or get caught up in all the drama of the latest crossover. Sure they have Dracula attacking England, a major crisis, but they milk it to make it feel like it is the most important event since the birth of Jesus. Captain Britain just does what old comics do: deliver good, interesting stories from month to month.

This is also why I liked the last issue of X-Force: a fucking mind-blowing issue, as emotional as the death of the Wasp in Secret Invasion but without feeling like a gimmick or shock ending (yes it was a gimmick and shock ending, but the phrase here is “without feeling’).

Sonnyhooper
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
12:38:05 AM
I have long thought that continuity was the enemy of the DC Universe and not its friend. To me each DC character operates best as a self-contained universe, with occasional team ups (World's FInest, Brave & the Bold, Justice League).

Besides, each DC character pretty much operates in his own city (Metropolis, Gotham, Coast City, Keystone City, etc.) so it would be easy for them to be self-contained and have their own continuity.

Ambush Bug...
by alfiemoon
Feb 19th, 2009
05:57:19 AM
"I didn't see Continentalop saying anything about DC putting out stories only HE likes. He's pointing out deficiencies in the storytelling that's been going on and asking for an alternative. I believe the only thing he's asking for and what I'm asking for is a little bit of straight-forward clear storytelling. Some editor has to notice that the narrative in all things bat-related has been so fluid and scatter-shot, that no one really knows where things stand". - - - - - - - - - - - - That would be a great defence of his viewpoint if it were true. The truth is, there are plenty of Batbooks available that *do* tell straightforward stories in a clear fashion (Detective Comics, Nightwing, Robin - even the recent two-parters that crossed over between the main Batman title and Detective Comics). However, no-one seems to be paying any attention to those - they're more interested in the stuff that's less conventional. That's fine, but to buy those books and then complain that there's no alternative seems a little nonsensical when there ARE plenty of other books offering a different style of storytelling.
Ambush Bug (part 2)...
by alfiemoon
Feb 19th, 2009
05:57:44 AM
"Coming off of FINAL CRISIS, the editors should have been able to see that a straightforward story would be much more fitting and received better by readers." - - - - - - - - - I don't agree. Fans aren't the people that writers and editors should be looking to for direction. As I've said before, I thought that Final Crisis was a very well-written book that experimented with new storytelling methods and intentionally bucked many of the storytelling conventions of comics. I can understand why some people might not have liked it, but to complain that certain books are told in an unusual or experimental style seems like whining when there ARE so many other conventional superhero books available.
kenjinattix...
by alfiemoon
Feb 19th, 2009
05:58:09 AM
Sadly, Aja hasn't been drawing Iron Fist for quite some time. Travel Foreman is the book's regular artist at the moment.
Fygar...
by alfiemoon
Feb 19th, 2009
05:58:45 AM
Batman didn't die in the helicopter explosion. You can tell this from the fact that he wrote an account if it afterwards. It still surprises me that some people think that Batman was meant to have died at the end of that issue.
I've said it before
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
07:04:59 AM
and I'll say it again: I have no idea why people read iconic books like Batman or Superman, or major crossovers. They always suck. They have sucked for years. They will continue to suck. Alot of fans are like Rihanna running back to Chris Brown after getting her ass beat. Name me a list of 5 company crossovers that were good in the past 25 years. Go ahead. Even the ones that seem decent at the time (Crisis, Secret Wars) are pretty much unreadable in 2009. Yet we still get reviews of these books being like "It didnt live up to expectations" Really? You had expectations? Seriously?
Buzz....
by BangoSkank
Feb 19th, 2009
07:05:29 AM
You can die from too many whippets?
The Great George Perez
by Star Hump
Feb 19th, 2009
07:15:36 AM
I got a laugh earlier today when I was flipping thru JLA/Avengers #4 (2003)and sure enough, right near the climax of the battle, Perez put Bloodwynd in there. Bigger than life. OK, Perez is top 3 best superhero artists EVER, right? RIGHT?
Buzz Maverik's BEVERLY HILLS MUTANT
by Buzz Maverik
Feb 19th, 2009
07:34:03 AM
is now in post-production. Which means I'm one busy little talkbacker, what with BASEBALL FURIES in pre-production and writing BAD NEWS WATCHMEN in the editing room. I say things like,"More glass..." and "Use that scene I was going to shoot but didn't..." Plus, the wind is pretty fierce which pulls on the skeet when my assistant throws it off the roof.
Don't give up, Jack!
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
10:26:08 AM
Alright fine I won't, Wang, lets eat our way out.
I totally agree with Sonnyhopper
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
10:28:44 AM
the best way to use Superman and Batmn is in self contained, non-continuity beholden maxi-series (aside from JLA stuff) Lets be honest, the best Superman and Batman stories are the ones free to move around without the massive constraints of continuity.
alfiemoon
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
10:31:23 AM
you complete me.
Goose - Good Cross-overs
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
10:32:09 AM
Age of Apocalypse
Oh wait... you wanted five...
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
10:33:32 AM
fuck... uh... Age of Apocalypse... Thats all I got, but it was and is still good!
Big Events...
by Fygar
Feb 19th, 2009
11:08:40 AM
suck because they never pay off what they promise.

House of M - No more mutants! Except all the popluar ones.

Civil War - A war breaks out between the heros! But no one of not dies.

Secret Invasion - Some of Marvel's heros are Skrulls! But the biggest name was Spiderwoman.

Final Crisis - Seven issues of Morrison masturbating.

ah, Fygar
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
11:29:57 AM
Ah, perhaps you aren't familiar with the supervillian known as Slug? He was a skrull. Mockingbird was also a skrull and they don't get much bigger than that...
gooseud, call me Rihanna
by Homer Sexual
Feb 19th, 2009
11:49:13 AM
I feel so busted. I am totally one of those people who continues to buy the "events" and then talk about how much they suck. Ouch!

Age of Apocalypse was indeed super awesome. Um, urgh, I....liked Infinite Crisis.

As emotional as the death of the Wasp? But that wasn't emotional at all. Not the slightest. That's why it was lame.

Secret War: was it good?
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
11:50:40 AM
I've been kicking around my "crossovers suck" comment, and I'm wondering, was Secret Wars actually good? Doom stealing Beyonder's powers, intro of the Venom suit, etc. Am I underrating that one?
Sweet Christmas
by Mr.FTW
Feb 19th, 2009
11:53:41 AM
alfiemoon - I don't think people have a problem with guys like Morrison writting crazy storys as much as they have a problem with those crazy stories being shoe horned into mainstream continuity. All Star Superman is great because it is an isolated story set apart from the DC universe. Had Morrison and DC placed that story into continuity, while the reaction wouldn't have been as severe people would have been screaming about how is DC going to fix Superman now that he is dieing. It's not the type of story telling it's the way the story was presented to the reader.

Continentalop - As for writter trying to write the next definitive story for a character they need to look past what their personal favorite comic era is and look to what is the core of the character. Look at what the Nolan's came up for the Joker in The Dark Knight. That is the key, look at what makes the character work and leave all of the silver age and golden age silliness in the past.

gooseud - I'll probably get railed for this but I'll go on record and say the Infinity Gauntlet was an awesome mega cross over event. China is here.

crossovers: Identity Crisis
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
11:55:53 AM
was awesome. Im the only one alive who thinks that, but that is one of the most underrated books Ive ever read. The race to save Robin's father, Superman standing like a stone in the middle of the room scouring every inch with his X ray vision, the epic battle with Deathstroke. Granted the reveal was lame, but the first 6 issues of that series were killer.
Identity Crisis
by Fygar
Feb 19th, 2009
12:25:17 PM
I enjoyed as well. As I did Infinite Crisis. Superboy Prime was a great villain.
Goose
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
12:28:06 PM
Secret Wars is a nostalgia, gimmick book, not bad, of course, but not good in a worth re-visiting for the story kind of way. It most certainly isn't a 6.9 on the richtor scale, baby.

I have a feeling the Crossover Event Rhianna fandom is the next "trapped in amber"

I think Age of Apocalypse deserves much more accolades than it gets. That was one tight, tight crossover and some fantastic world building. It was what, 18 issues or so, all told and yet felt complete and accessable and ended up tying up in a nice neat little bow. Good, good stuff and designs too. Who helmed that particular story and how come the very next issue back to normal, the X-man went right back to sucking balls?
Infinity Guantlet
by Homer Sexual
Feb 19th, 2009
01:05:46 PM
was indeed very good, I can remember it so clearly years later. But it wasn't a crossover, it was a self-contained story.

Age of Apocalypse was indeed a big cross over and it was basically an out-of-continuity story, which is probably why it was so great. X-books tend to be very mired in continutiy. Madureira's art was a joy to behold.

While Secret Wars is dated, I still find it enjoyable. The Wasp was actually a prominent, entertaining character during this time. Spidey's black suit, She-Hulk joining the FF, the creation of Volcana and Titania, who then hooked up with Molecule Man (leading to great character development) and Absorbing Man (well, lots of smashing). The worst thing about it was the "X-Men are outsiders, we hate everyone and everyone hates us" thing.

Secret Wars
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
01:15:03 PM
I never was a fan of Secret Wars. When it came out it was considered this incredibly big event, yet it felt like it was just a gimmick. Especially after Crisis came out, which felt like an even more significant story that had even more impact on its Universe.

Having said that, I will say one thing in defense of Secret Wars. It wasn't a crossover series, it was a self-contained 12 issue limited series that had consequences on the rest of the Marvel Universe: the Venom costume, Thing staying on Battleworld, She-Hulk joining the FF, Colossus having an affair with the alien girl resulting in the end of his relationship with Kitty Pryde, etc.

Secret Wars II, however, was a bloated crossover that just sucked.

Age of Apocalypse
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
01:18:40 PM
I think it was in continuity, just an alternate time-line. Besides they back-filled tons of history into those issues, so it felt like regular continuity.

Yeah, that was crazy, remember when Joe Mad was awesome? His sunfire was killer.
The "epic battle with Deathstroke" in Identity Crisis
by Laserhead
Feb 19th, 2009
01:30:06 PM
Can anyone think of a plausible explanation for why Kyle Rayner would try to punch Deathstroke (and with his ring hand), rather than, you know, using his power ring?
"No one sets out to write a bad story"
by Laserhead
Feb 19th, 2009
01:32:13 PM
Chuck Austen.

Checkmate.

Age of Apocalypse was ok
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
01:36:08 PM
I guess it just felt like someone said "hey, I want to do my own dystopia "Days of Future Past" thing!"

Infinity Gauntlet
by Mr.FTW
Feb 19th, 2009
01:38:07 PM
Maybey you need to go back and look it over again. The Infinity Gauntlet was a huge Marvel Universe cross over touching every major part of the Marvel U. Almost every title had tie in issues.
continentalop
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
01:50:19 PM
well sure, true, the dystopian future/alternative timeline thing is almost uniquely X-men, however, the cross-over itself was masterfully designed and executed as far as story goes.
Kyle punching
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
01:51:24 PM
Yeah, why not use... I don't know... a giant green boxing glove?
Austen wasn't Checkmate...
by SleazyG.
Feb 19th, 2009
02:07:47 PM
...that was Bruce Jones who set out to write a bad story. And succeeded phenomenally. His one-story arc on CHECKMATE was goddamned awful--they should have just cancelled the book when Rucka left instead of having one shitty arc by Jones that had nothing to do with all the previous issue and was instead an incredibly lame, incredibly stupid superhero story with a coupla Rooks thrown in to distract us.
X-Men dystopian future/alternative timeline thing
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
02:13:39 PM
You know, I loved "Days of future past" but I got to say it opened an entire can of worms for the X-Men books. I mean, the team of mutants faced more bad potential timelines and people from the future than the FF did, and they OWN a time machine.

You got Rachel Summers, Nmrod, Cable, Stryfe, Bishob, Age of Apocalyspe, Dark Beast, Trevor Fitzroy, and a bunch of others. And almost every story involving Magik had her traveling to a possible horrible future for the X-Men or New Mutants.

Age of Apocalypse might have been well executed, but I guess I was just going through X-Men dystopian timeline fatigue.

I meant 'Checkmate' in the literal sense of the word
by Laserhead
Feb 19th, 2009
02:15:44 PM
Like, 'Your argument is now the equivalent of a king in check.'

Like, 'There. I named someone who must clearly set out to write a bad story.'

Continentalop
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
03:03:43 PM
The culmination of X-men timeline abuse? Cable. What a convoluted and stupid backstory.

I'm planning on revisiting AoA here pretty soon, you might want to if you're no longer burnt out. I will admit that it was the very first issue back to normal that finally broke the back of my X-men collecting, which had been going on since before Fall of the Mutants, so I guess I was x-fatigued as well.
Maybe Austen
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
03:04:36 PM
Maybe.

Now, if you'd said Winnick...
Laserhead: Rayner
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
03:29:39 PM
What Kyle should have done to Deathstroke was create a giant green piano and slam the lid shut on him, exclaiming "Hey Deathstroke, why don't you just.....FACE THE MUSIC!!!"
X-Men in the future
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
03:34:03 PM
One of these days, Madrox or someone is going to go to the future....and find Scott Summers chillin on the beach with a Corona in his hand being like "Dude, Jamie, welcome to the future! It's fuckin AWESOME here!! Everyone loves us!! These red sunglasses get me more ass then a toilet seat!!" But alas no, instead we get story after story after story after story of mutant future persecution. How (yawwwwwwwwn) exciting. Wait, what? Mutants in internment camps?? Heavy handed social commentary disguised as an X-Men storyline? Surely you jest, sir!! I SAY THEE NAY!!
One last thing:
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
03:38:36 PM
Does Nimrod realize his name is code for "Retard"? Like, when they invented Nimrod, how did they come up with that name? Was "Dumb-Shit" already taken? I'm picturing Gob Bluth from Arrested Development standing next to a 10 foot tall sheet being like "Gentlemen, we have reached the pinnacle of mutant hunting technology.....without further adieu, I give you.....ASS-CLOWN!!!!" (Yanks off sheet to reveal giant pink robot).
I knew what you meant, Laserhead...
by SleazyG.
Feb 19th, 2009
03:40:13 PM
...just wanted to point out that Bruce Jones is at least as shitty a writer as Chuck Austen, but he's sucking on books NOW instead of half a decade or more ago.
Nimrod
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
03:46:55 PM
is apparently a term for a Hunter originally. There's was this TV show about a small town in the upper pennisula of Michigan and their school mascot was the nimrod and their basketball team of six kids who had been playing together forever was going to state and it was called Nimrod Nation and I would watch, fascinated, thinking: "Why doesn't anyone mention the fact that they keep calling themselves Proud Nimrods? Don't they know?"
I don't know if the set out to tell a bad story
by Fuzzyjefe
Feb 19th, 2009
03:46:56 PM
but Jeph Loeb succeeded admirably in Ultimates 3. How do you take the characters/situations set up in vols 1 & 2 and do....THAT? It's like taking a filet mignon into the kitchen and serving me poop. With a side of suck.
Kyle vs. Deathstroke
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
03:48:26 PM
He should have hit him with a giant green frying pan and said: "Give up, Deathstroke, you're... COOKED!"
GL vs Deathstroke
by Fuzzyjefe
Feb 19th, 2009
03:52:36 PM
Kyle whips up a giant green tennis racket, swats Slade, and exclaims triumphantly: "You got served!"
Kyle vs. Deathstroke
by Mr.FTW
Feb 19th, 2009
03:56:59 PM
No way, he should make a giant green B-Boy that does a head spin then tell him he just got served.
Or a giant green ice cream cone
by Fuzzyjefe
Feb 19th, 2009
04:00:53 PM
"you just got soft-served!"
Nimrod
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
04:08:59 PM
Nimrod means "hunter" in ancient Hebrew. He was a Biblical Mesopotamian king mentioned in the Table of Nations and, while not stated in the Bible, is traditionally considered the creator of the Tower of Babel. He is a great grandson of Noah, and "a mighty one on the earth" and "a mighty hunter before the Lord." So the term Nimrod when vague or general is applied to the means of hunter, normally to a person.

The origins of "nimrod" meaning an idiot might come from Bugs Bunny. Bugs would often ironically call Elmer Fudd a "poor little nimrod." So, for the less literate children watching it is natural to assume the would interpret "nimrod" to be some kind of insult.

Anyone remembers the vampire Nimrod who fought Dracula in Dracula Lives?

Dystopia
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
04:15:18 PM
I can actually understand there appeal, especially to the X-Men universe. Almost all minority groups that have been oppressed have a natural suspicion and paranoia that their fears will be justified. Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, Gays, all of them have a fear that sometime in the future they will be oppressed again or that things will take a turn for the worse. Days of Future Past was just a comic book extension of that.

Plus, most young people usually have a bleaker look to the future, and also think they will inherit a world worse than what their parents had.

Personally though, I would love to see an optimistic future just once.Wouldn't it be nice if the future proved that Prof. X's quest was justified? I mean, if MLK somehow showed up nowadays, I think he would feel his sacrifices and toil were all worth it.

ROFL Ancient Hebrew?
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
04:34:35 PM
"I give you.....NIMROD ROTHSTEIN!!!" (Unveils giant pink robot with little yarmulkah on his head)
Nimrod
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
04:36:26 PM
Are you sure the root for "idiot" doesn't also come from the whole tower of babel debacle? Thats what I've always read/heard.
"if MLK somehow showed up nowadays"
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
04:38:03 PM
"I think he would feel his sacrifices and toil were all worth it."

Not according to that one episode of Boondocks...
Nimrod
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
04:42:02 PM
That might be the actual root (it was also used to mean "tyrant") but at any rate I think Bugs helped popularize the term.
MLK on Boondocks
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
04:43:13 PM
Was pre-Obama.
My victory over GL is now complete
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
04:45:03 PM
Clearly, what was once one man's common sense crusade against the deus-ex-machina make-it-up-as-we-go-along lameness of Green Lantern's powers has now become a talkback mainstay. I win. Somewhere Messi is screaming "Its NOT a GIANT FRYING PAN, DAMMIT!! Its an expression of one man's indomitable willpower!!!" (Kyle creates a giant green grandfather clock and drops it on Deathstroke) "Hey Deathstroke, looks like its TIME for you to leave!!"
You got it wrong gooseud
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
04:47:10 PM
He is more like an Israeli jew, like Mossad and Krav Maga and Masada, not a neurotic American jew like Woody Allen.

Or maybe he is: "I think that this - that this entire mutant thing is just such a ridiculous thing. Uh, it reminds me of an old Joke that takes place at a Catskills mountain resort..."

I still think GL makes more sense...
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
04:55:25 PM
...deus-ex-machina powers and all than Wolverine and his convoluted, ridiculous backstory.
Why don't Green Lanterns
by Fuzzyjefe
Feb 19th, 2009
04:57:21 PM
make giant green lantern rings that could level a city with one blast? *rhetorical*
Who says they can't Fuzzyjefe?
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
05:04:23 PM
But in all seriousness even though they made a "bigger" ring, I still think you could argue it could on produce as much energy as the smaller ring could. It is the smaller ring that holds the charge from the Power Batteries.

Best use of a GL ring ever was in Ganthet's Tale by sci-fi writer Larry Niven (the man of "Man of Steel, Woman of Tissue" fame). In it Hal is told to fly away at the speed of light and fire a green laser at another ring wielder. Because he was moving so fast the blast was color shifted along the light spectrum, going from green to yellow.

That was just awesome.

I totally forgot about that, C-lop
by Ambush Bug
Feb 19th, 2009
05:48:36 PM
I wonder if Johns is going to use that concept in the Spectrum War that look to be happening after Blackest Night.
DRACULA ON THE MOON!
by LaserPants
Feb 19th, 2009
06:00:11 PM
Captain Britain just became Marvels best book. Its fucking great! So is Nova, Guardians of the Galaxy, War of Kings, Thor, Thunderbolts, Daredevil, Old Man Logan, and a couple of others. DC needs to get their shit together and fire editorial. The only books they have going now that are essential reads are Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps. Everything else is pretty much shit. (Though I'm digging the New Krypton thingee.) Hopefully Johns will be able to repair the mess with Blackest Night.
"Dracula on the Moon!"
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
06:12:40 PM
Is the phrase that sums up everything I like in comic books and the superhero genre. Just saying it makes me smile and feel all nice and warm.

"Dracula on the Moon!"

Dracula on the moon
by Snookeroo
Feb 19th, 2009
06:24:30 PM
I read a story in Famous Monsters once about Dracula hitching a ride to a space colony because there was no good blood left on earth.
He gets to this small planet and first night out finds a victim -- but just as he's about to attack the guy, the sun comes over the horizon and fries poor Drac.

Seems our favorite vampire forgot that night was much shorter on this new planet.

Great story -- wish I still had that issue.
Nimrod Horowitz
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
06:38:59 PM
"Dude, don't you know I dont hunt mutants on the Shabbat??"
ContinentalOP is right
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
06:44:39 PM
Wolvie's origin is fuckin lame. And the reason that Niven guy had such a good idea about GL is because hes an outside writer who isnt constricted by 50 years of backstory, 90% lame as balls, he can just write the story he wants because he can always go back to what he was doing before. If they had THAT guy writing GL full time, maybe he wouldnt have been so goddamn lame all this time (current admittedly high quality of the last 3 or 4 years nonwithstanding). Its the same for Meltzer, Identity Crisis was one of the few things DC has published recently that DIDNT feel frozen in amber (or just generally as exciting as watching my grandparents screw).
damn it, goose!
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
06:51:22 PM
I was so going to use the Clock pun next...

Kyle wraps Deathsroke up in a pair of giant green shoelaces: "Looks like you're fit to be TIED, Deathstroke!"
Wolverine's history
by Joenathan
Feb 19th, 2009
06:51:56 PM
Isn't it all a memory cap?
Science/Realism in comics
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
07:15:44 PM
I am not a big fan of logical explanations for DC comic characters. Unlike Joenathan I don’t think there has to be an in-depth explanation of the limits and capabilities of GL’s rings. I can live with each writer coming in and establishing his own limits of what they rings can do or not do, depending on what types of stories they want to tell.

Having said that, one of my biggest joys is when somebody takes a DC character, with all of their ridiculous physics breaking powers, and uses real world science with them. I don’t care so much that someone’s powers are completely unrealistic, I just love it when do real scientific applications (such as Superman following radio waves or the Flash saying something that isn’t heard until after he knocks out the villain because he was was running faster than sound), or at least they acknowledge how their powers breaks the rules of physics.

One of my favorite moments that a comic book character admitted that his powers were impossible and he knew it was in an old issue of the Atom when Ray Palmer and a friend of his had both shrunk down, and were standing and talking on an atom. Suddenly the friend realized something and said, “Hey, if we are now smaller than an oxygen molecule, how is it we can breath and talk?”

Ray Palmer replied, “I don’t know.” At least he was honest about it.

I Feel The Same Way, Continentalop
by LaserPants
Feb 19th, 2009
07:21:44 PM
Did you read the last ish? Its effin' great. The meeting with Dr. Doom and Dracula on the moon; the fact that Doom won't refer to him as a Count; the plan to create a Vampire Nation on Earth; the blood canons that shoot vampires toward the Earth?! It's great, and crazy, and loopy, and campy, but not over-the-top campy, AND it has great characters. (All the stuff with Blade and Spitfire is especially great. I love where that relationship is going and how its been developing.) Really, really great book. I've liked this whole relaunch so far, but now? I friggin' LOVE it. I really hope it keeps going like this.

Btw, new Thor was friggin' great too; and its seems like Thor and the Asgardians are going to play some role in this whole Vampire Nation thing thats brewing. At least thats my prediction given that Doom has offered the Asgardians room to park Asgard in Latveria.
Wolverine's History
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
07:25:45 PM
I sure hope it is a memory cap, because it is one of the most bloated, idiotic things out there. He is Highlander with bone claws (bone fucking claws!).

Question: I cut down my comic reading tremendously through most of the 90s, and pretty much stopped reading all things X-Men. My question is to those in the know when was the term "Weapon X" first applied? Barry-Windsor Smith's comic from 1991 was called "Weapon X" I know, but wasn't the experiment called Experiment X? I think Larry Hama came up with the Weapon X project in the early 90's, but I am not sure.

The reason I ask is why would Wolverine be called Weapon X when he first appeared and fought the Hulk he if had no memory and no longer had a connection to the Weapon X program. Was it a repressed memory; was members of Weapon X working with Department H; or was this just a fucking coincidence? Has this ever been explained.

I got to lie down. Whenever I think of Wolverine's origin I get a big headache.

Captain Britain rocks!
by Continentalop
Feb 19th, 2009
07:30:31 PM
I loved how Dracula is referred to as "the greatest general of his generation." And I love the interaction between Doom and Dracula.

What I especially love is that they are treating Dracula as an A-list villain, not some joke because he is based on a character from another medium. I read an interview wit Paul Cornell and he was talking about how he wants to put Dracula on the map as one of the big villains in Marvel, and how one of his motivations is that the members of the Dark Illuminati are not treating him with the respect he believes he deserves.

I dont demand realism in comics
by gooseud
Feb 19th, 2009
08:20:35 PM
although its fun as hell to attempt to apply it. I merely demand logic and common sense within the context of the universe that has been created. Thats why Civil War was such a great idea, although the execution sucked. Of course the govt would have attempted that, it makes perfect sense. Its the same reason I had no problem with Dr. Light's actions in Identity Crisis. I mean, if there were villains out there with powers, what do you think they would do? Rob banks? No, 50-60% of them would do exactly what Light did. ITs always been the elephant in the room, that villains have never actually done anything a real villain would actually do.
Thor and Captain Britain.....
by BangoSkank
Feb 20th, 2009
06:37:50 AM
Damn.... Captain Britain and Thor have been getting a ton of love around here lately.

I read the first few issues of Thor, and it just didn't do anything for me... But, I'm sort of over JMS, so I may not have been approaching it with an open mind. Maybe I'll give it another whirl in collected form.

Same goes for Captain Britain.... I felt burned a couple of times by different iterations of Excalibur.... So took a pass on this one, but Dracula on the Moon? That's pure gold. And I love the idea of Dracula become a force to be reckoned with in the MU.

It's tough. At $3.99, I'll be taking even fewer chances on new series'.

Continentalop
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
08:27:17 AM
"Unlike Joenathan I don’t think there has to be an in-depth explanation of the limits and capabilities of GL’s rings."

Thats not what I was saying. I was asking if DC had ever "comic book sciened" an explanation as to WHY the constructs were nessecary. Was that story ever told?
"why would Wolverine be called Weapon X when he first appeared?"
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
08:35:57 AM
Because Wolverine's history is a bloated, convulted, ret-conned mess?
I fizzled on Captain Brittain
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
08:37:51 AM
and honestly, the idea of Dracula on the moon is funny and cool in a kitchy kind of way, but hearing that they're trying to make him a real threat/villian has definitely grabbed my interest.

I will check this out.
I don't buy Thor because of JMS
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
08:40:40 AM
You broke my heart too many times, JMS! I ain't your Rhianna!
Joenathan
by Continentalop
Feb 20th, 2009
08:43:10 AM
I didn't mean to misrepresent you. I meant to say you were asking for a Marvel comics-like explanation for his powers (ala the Marvel Handbooks) and I was trying to say that the Marvel style doesn't work for DC characters, and vice versa. DC works best not being so tied to continuity, and Marvel works best when it has shared universe with continuity.

That is why I don't think you need a comic book science scene with GL - it works better if you have a general guideline what it can do and let each writing staff explore it. Unlike Marvel, where I want to know where each character ranks on the strength chart (is Hercules stronger than Thor? And how many tons can they lift?).

Well, using Niven's idea.....
by Fuzzyjefe
Feb 20th, 2009
08:46:33 AM
wouldn't it be a cool idea for there to be a splinter group of Lanterns that use differently cut prisms to change their ring energy to different colors? I don't know much about the Lanterns, I'll freely admit, but don't different colors have different apps? Why limit to just one, when you could theoretically bend the energy to any other?
Fuzz
by Fygar
Feb 20th, 2009
09:15:07 AM
The different colors all basically do the same thing, they just represent different emotional states. Green is will, yellow is fear, red is rage, blue is hope, etc. They can all shoot beams and make constructs. It is like power plants, some run on water, some wind, some solar, but they all produce electricity.
Ah
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
09:32:26 AM
I see, said the blind man...

I was totally screwed by adult stuff last night(the non porn kind) and was unable to make the LCS.

Total. Bummer. Dude.
Buzz Maverik's Original Superhero Film
by Buzz Maverik
Feb 20th, 2009
10:23:37 AM
Because of my extensive background in superhero comics (I used to read them!), I've been hired to write and direct what the producers believe will be an innovative look at superheroes. It's called SECURITY GUARDS. The Security Guards are kinky, dysfunctional superheroes for a troubled time I like to call "today". There's Inkblot, who is messed up emotionally. He'll be played by Jimmy Baio, best known as Ronzoni in THE BAD NEWS BEARS IN BREAKING TRAINING. We've got the Satin Slip, who has parental issues. Professor Los Alamos, who doesn't care about people. Limp Bird, who is trying to invent the Viagra ray. Ozzyosbournus, SPOILER ALERT, who is behind the whole thing. His real identity is Adrian Gernier, who will play him in the movie. Finally, the linchpin of the whole story, Dead Ed.

Who says you can't come up with anything new?

To Be Pefectly Geek, Weapon X...
by Buzz Maverik
Feb 20th, 2009
10:29:08 AM
...was what Wolverine was called when he first appeared in the Hulk back when I was in the third grade. We hated Wolverine, btw. Always hated it when they'd send in a tiny dude in a costume like the Hulk wouldn't use him for toilet paper. Weapon X may have been mentioned in Giant Size X-MEN # 1, I can't tell ya because I've killed a lot of brain cells since then. And I know that James McDonald Hudson called him Weapon X when he first attacked the X-Men. Never liked the Weapon X concept personally, and if I'd got the X-MEN directing job instead of Singer, the Hellfire Club would have had a lot more to do with Wolvie's origin.
My thoughts on Final Crisis
by SpacePhil
Feb 20th, 2009
11:44:51 AM
Well, here I'll have to admit you guys were right about Final Crisis being a mess. That said, I don't know if the blame necessarily belongs to Morrison. As someone said, there were a ton of good ideas in Final Crisis - the problem is, it never felt like he had the time or the pages to really explore any of them in depth. Maybe that would've happened, if the other DC books had gotten involved...? But yeah, anyway - I have to wonder how much of this was Morrison's fault as writer, and how much of it was DC leaving him and the book out to dry.
Did DC leave him out to dry
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
12:04:30 PM
or did he keep all his cards close to the vest and not let anyone else play?
Or Does DCs Editorial Department Completely Suck?
by LaserPants
Feb 20th, 2009
12:45:40 PM
Didio (I think thats his name) needs to be fired ASAP.
Thor
by Bluejack
Feb 20th, 2009
03:25:55 PM
It was time for Thor to get involved in Midgard. I'm glad to see he will start interacting with the Avengers etc.
No, Buzz Maverik
by Continentalop
Feb 20th, 2009
03:25:57 PM
I know that was Wolverine's code name in his first appearance against the Hulk. I am just wondering how did his code name for Department H happen to be the same one for the project that gave him his claws? He was a Canadian superhero after he got the adamantium, so how is it the his superhero code name and the code name for him getting adamantium is the same?

Maybe one of the moderators or reviewers knows.

By the way...
by Continentalop
Feb 20th, 2009
03:27:34 PM
node 39967 went down. RIP BALEBACK.
The Sentry
by Bluejack
Feb 20th, 2009
03:32:06 PM
The Sentry
by Bluejack
Feb 20th, 2009
03:33:17 PM
Needs to go back out of Marvel continuity. His character sucks giant donkey balls. In other news, Spider-Man as written in the Avengers is still a whiney bitch.
hey
by Joenathan
Feb 20th, 2009
03:50:55 PM
Does anyone remember a PC game from the mid 90s that was your basic Space marine vs. alien turn based, hex strategy game and had a multiplayer vs. mode where you could buy and build your own space marine squad and then you and the rival squads ran around this overhead view map, hunting each other or trying to take over a certain spot. There were LAser Troopers that could freeze someone and Jump Troopers with jet packs and Snipers and Berserker Troopers. They moved and fought based on a point system and you could place them on sentry duty so that if an enemy crossed their path they'd automatically open fire.

Sound familiar? Anyone? Anyone?

It might have been called Vaccine or Vaccination or Valedation or something like that...
Please, Contientalop...
by Buzz Maverik
Feb 20th, 2009
04:05:34 PM
...call me Buzz. Buzz Maverik is so Charlie Brown. Why did they always call him by both names? It was never "Hi, Linus Van Pelt" or "That crazy Snoopy Beagle."

You gotta loosen up, man! Try the wood grain alcohol.

JMS and Thor
by gooseud
Feb 20th, 2009
04:45:00 PM
I've been as burned by the next guy by JMS. All I can say is, Thor taken in and of itself has been awesome. If you only read the first 3, your missing out (Iron Fist was kind of the same way). It gets freakin awesome after those first 3 intro issues. Without spoiling anything, the "funeral" issue (those who have read it know what I'm talking about) was one of the best issues of any comic I've read this year.
I'm sorry Buzz, it is just that...
by Continentalop
Feb 20th, 2009
10:32:05 PM
...we've never been properly introduced.

I guess I am still a little souther belle.

Who's the Real Victim?
by Septimus03
Mar 27th, 2009
11:59:11 AM
I found this article on spunkybean.com. It's called, Rihanna and Chris Brown: Who's the Real Victim?: http://www.spunkybean.com/comm entary/919-op-ed-rihanna-and-c hris-brown-whos-the-real-victi m
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