Finally.

I've been re-watching b5 on Hulu (seasons 1 & 2). There is a SciFi show that gets better with each episode, which is something of a rarity. The characters evolve and are changed by the story. They are not changed to advance the story, like BSG. B5 was an amazing feat, made more astonishing when you find out about production issues with the 'powers that were'.

I envy you getting to watch it for the first time. I described it to a friend as 'Tolkien in space.' That describes the grandness of it. The intimacy that you begin to feel for truly alien characters is unprecedented, and hasn't been seen since. Yes you'll have the occasional mediocre one-off episodes, but the big picture was staggering and moreover satisfying. A rarity.

The worst part is, I've been rewatching the first half of season four; and I can;t help but feel a good chunk of that was just padding/filler to stretch the episode count for a split DVD season. I hope season 4.5 delivers on the promise of getting quickly to the point.

The theory was longer than that. Let me see if I can dig it up.

Right,chrth?

The Hybrid warned against following Kara Thrace, but the Colonials did it anyway. Now they're in the wrong place. They need to find the Final Fifth, who, with the Final Four, will show the way to the home of the 13th Tribe ... all while fighting off the Cavil-led Cylons.

Disclaimer:

This is just something I came up with. It's not written in stone (notepad, actually). The purpose in posting it is to test it. If you find a flaw, GREAT. If you have a different interpretation, that's also great ... we can discuss it and see what we come up with. I may embrace your position, I may not, don't take it personally. The goal is discussion, not conclusion. This is a start point, not an end point.

The Nebula:

The Nebula is KEY. This is where things went wrong. Up until that point, the Colonials were following the correct path. The activation of the Final Five was the next step in the correct path. However, something else happened: Starbuck came back from the dead (confirmed in a podcast that she was dead). Multiple Hybrids warned against following her. The Colonials did anyway. Why? Because whoever brought Starbuck back returned her at the exact moment to pre-empt the next step. Since In-Head Leoben led her to her death, I'm going to guess that he was an agent of that power (we'll talk about them all later). So upon Starbuck's return, the wrong path was taken.

Now, there are some questions here (and possible flaws). Starbuck's path took them to the Hybrid and the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. The hybrid didn't want them following Starbuck, but she did seem to want to destroy the Hub. So it gets kind of confusing. Was the purpose just to follow Starbuck some of the way? Would the Hub destruction happened anyway if they followed the Final Five? Hard to say.

The McGuffin:

BTW, I think there's a giant McGuffin that is everywhere in the BSG universe and I think we've been tricked with it. I refer, of course, to "This has all happened before and that will all happen again". Many of us are trying to fit events into some sort of cycle. This has resulted in some far out looping (Cylons invented on Earth thousands of years ago, etc). I think we've taken it too far. For all we know, the cycle in question is tens of thousands of years old. So I am not going to try to fit the events into a cycle. There's an almost infinite number of ways to do it, and I don't think it gets us any closer to the 'truth' of the remaining episodes.

Earth:

Ah, good old Earth. And yes, I do believe they're on Earth. I believe that Earth was the previous home for those that ended up on Kobol, but it really becomes an academic question. Was Earth destroyed before the 13th Tribe set out for it 4000 years ago? Possibly; would make sense why everyone was on Kobol and ONLY Kobol (in a Universe with no aliens, why, 4000 years ago, was all of humanity on one planet? Could it be because they had been on another planet earlier that they destroyed, and their new leaders, the Lords of Kobol, kept a tight rein on them for unknown reasons?) Or was Earth destroyed after the 13th Tribe arrived, either in a battle with other (original) inhabitants or some sort of pseudo-Cylon event like what happened to the colonies (here's a place for our McGuffin)?

Ultimately, IT DOESN'T MATTER. See, a lot of people forget (because of New Caprica and the opening credits) that the real goal wasn't Earth; it was to reunite with the 13th Tribe. Reunited (and it feels so good), they would be able to fight off the Cylons. Despite all the truces and toaster-frakking going on, there's something still out there, because ...

Here Comes the Cavil-ry:

There are now a lot more bad Cylons than good Cylons. There's only D'Anna. A handful of Leobens. Some Sixes and Eights.

But there are potentially hundreds of thousands of all the other models. Not to mention Raiders, Centurions, and whatnot. Granted, those may no longer attack due to the revealed presence of the Final Five, but there are a lot more bad basestars than good ones. And there's still the Cylon homeworld, where resurrection still happens (unless RDM retcons this out) and they could build a new resurrection hub if they felt like it, one that the 'good' Cylons could no longer use.

The Thirteenth Tribe:

So that's what it comes down to -- finding the Thirteenth Tribe. There has to be some survivors somewhere. Back to our McGuffin: if the Colonials survived the Cylon attack, than I'm sure the 13th Tribe survived whatever happened on Earth (or if Earth was already like that). And I'm sure they got into some ships and went looking for a place called ... you got me. But I'm guessing the 13th Tribe is there. And I'm guessing they got there before the colonists left Kobol.

The Final Five:

This is where the Final Five's path comes into play. The Final Five's path leads to the 13th Tribe. Since the path they have followed has been laid out thousands of years ago, it seems that the 13th Tribe returned some of its members to Kobol at some point to create a new path, one that didn't lead to Earth (or led to an Earth 2 or New Earth or something). Now since we don't know the Final Fifth (who could be dead, or one of the colonies/New Caprica, or could've been on the Basestar already, or D'Anna could've been lying, whatever the explanation for the location is), I believe that the plot directions points to the joined Five being able to find the correct path. So the Fifth needs to be found (and I'm sure they'll figure this out pretty quick).

Roslin's Upcoming Death:

She's still the dying leader (remember, it's a wasting disease. Those championing Natalie for this role forget this fact). But the scripture never says Earth. Just the 'promised' or 'new' land. Since the 13th Tribe is what set down the markers, it makes sense that she doesn't die until they're close to their home.

The In-Heads and the Lords of Kobol:

Here's one of the big questions. What is the purpose of the In-Heads? I'm guessing they're avatars of the Lords of Kobol, but it's just a guess. The Cylon God is likely a former Lord of Kobol who was exiled for wanting to be the top dog, and the Cylons found him and he converted them to belief in him. The In-Head Six and Baltar are his doing. Is the Cylon God responsible for them following Kara the wrong way? It's the easiest solution to the problem (since it utilizes an established entity), but the Why is tricky. Maybe he doesn't want the 13th Tribe reunited with the Colonials because the other Lords of Kobol reside with the former? But it's also possible that one of the other Lords of Kobol (Aurora is a very likely suspect here because of her connection with Kara Thrace) doesn't want them reunited because they do not want the agents of the Cylon God amongest the 13th Tribe.

Where Do We Go From Here?

Well, I think the path is simple: find the Final Fifth. Follow the path to the 13th Tribe. Unite with them to stop the (bad) Cylons. Live happily ever after ... until it happens again. This doesn't mean there aren't loose threads (and some of them are already answered above, but we'll include them all) that need answering, but I think this is the core of the final episodes. Some of these are academic (as noted, does it really matter what happened on Earth? All that matters is that it happened).

The Open Threads:

1) The remaining 'bad' Cylons (as well as the Cylon homeworld)

2) What happened to Earth?

3) What happened to the 13th tribe?

4) What happened to the Lords of Kobol?

5) Who or What are the In-Head Baltar, Six, and Leoben?

6) What destruction is Kara Thrace leading everyone to?

7) Why isn't Roslin dead (yet)? Will she die?

8) The Final Fifth

9) How have the Final Five "been to Earth"?

10) Who is the 'jealous god'? Is it the Cylon god? Lord of Kobol?

11) What's the deal with Hera? What's the secret of the Opera House?

12) What's the deal with Tigh-Caprica Six's child?

Miscellany:

I don't think they'll settle on Kobol or Earth. The former seems like going backwards to me, and the latter seems like a replay of New Caprica.

Predicted Dialogue for the next episode:

"Something went wrong. Are they all lost?"

"We survived. They must have as well."

"Where did they go?"

"They led us here. They'll lead us there."

Also: "Frak"

The splendor Kara's Earth opposed to the Earth they're on now: Roslin and Kira see a green bank. Natalie sees verdant trees. These are the glimpses of death/afterlife we've been shown on the show. Now consider what the podcast told us when she returned: Kara DIED. And was returned. What if the splendor she saw was the one Roslin and Natalie glimpsed, not Earth?

I think that's enough for now. If you made it to the end and read everything, good for you.

Also, I still recommend Stone Gods by Jeanette Winterson. Ignoring the lesbian robot sex (although why'd you want to is beyond me), there's a lot of thematic similarities with this incarnation of BSG.

Come on Regs. Sound off!

FUCK YES. I hated what they did with Baltar the first half of the season.

And the First 15 Minutes sound FRAKKING GREAT! I may not get to watch until tomorrow on the dvr, so won't read any spoilerage here until after that :-)

PS. I've got a date all weekend ;) So wont be able to check it out until Sunday. I may just make them watch it with me tomorrow lol. (bring on them torrentz!!)

So Say We All, Mtherfrakkers!

2) And have the answers be workable. Sure, some may disagree with the results (OMG, I can't believe Roslin is a time-travelling Cylon God from the past and the future!) but as long as it *works*, I'm cool with it.

That said, my list of questions to be answered posted above pretty much need to be 100% answered. Anything less than that will be disappointing.

I like Tigh's....

But where's Hot Dog's favorite moment?

But, I think it's pretty clear that as the final episodes are shown, the show has become a huge, bloated mess of overwrought nonsense.

The examples are legion, but let me throw a couple out there that I haven't heard much discussion about.

Why is there a "Final Five" anyway? It was clear earlier in the show that Cylons were being revealed to us, the viewers of the show, and, to a lesser extent, the Colonials. That list of known models included semi-fan-created pet names for each model. Now, for some unknown reason the Cylons themselves have become like the viewers of the show and have become obsessed with who the "Final Five" are.

First off, why in Hell would the Cylons call them the "Final Five?" That title only works if you're a viewer and are ticking off a punch list starting with one through seven. If there are twelve models, that list would leave five. Long delays by the Sci-Fi Channel and sudden reluctance to advance the overall plot/mythology of the show (if there ever was one) left us stuck at seven for quite a while. Thus, "Final Five."

So, what? Are we to understand that the Cylons themselves have a similar check list? That makes no sense whatsoever. So, let's look a little deeper. First, are the "Five" unique? That is, are there many copies or just the one? Evidence seems to indicate just the one. The contrary would make it impossible that their identity is unknown. Even so, how is it that their identities are not known to the Cylons? The only good explanations I can come up with are that they are older models whose copies have been boxed or destroyed, prototypes or just plain one-offs that got either lost or sent on a covert mission long ago.

So, if we accept the premise that they're somehow older models, and clearly the opposite doesn't hold together logically, then we're back again to wondering why the Cylons would use the term "Final Five." Shouldn't they be the "First Five" or "Lost Five" or the "Hidden Five?" Bottom line, the description "Final Five" works fine among viewers of the show, but makes no sense from the perspective of the Cylons.

Poor, poor writing. Purely amateur hour.

And yet, the revealing of the identities of these five has become all but the centerpiece of the show in its last season and a half. Nearly abandoned plot points that used to make the show interesting include such compelling ideas as revealing how the colonies were established, who the Lords of Kobol were, what (if anything) was cyclical about the Cylon rebellion and the subsequent destruction of the colonies, what an "in-head" is (if anything), what the nature of the polytheistic beliefs of the Colonials is and how it relates to the monotheistic ideas of the Cylons, what completely shocking logic drives the infamous Cylon "Plan" and, most importantly, where does the story of Battlestar Galactica fit into the story of the human race as we know it and the cradle of humanity, Earth.

Nope, most of this has been jettisoned in favor of soap opera style personal relationships that at one moment seem very vital and real only to be thrown out or re-tooled whenever it's needed to create (increasingly artificial) drama. I could accept this kind of dramatic bait and switch a few times. But, as a viewer, I feel more abused than Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football. I keep trusting and yet every time it turns out to be a lame, meaningless trick.

That's reminds me of the "Final Five" again. Their revealed identities seem completely arbitrary except that they are characters who we, as the viewers, know of, but aren't "A-list" enough to piss off the show's more hard core supporters. They're an officer, an advisor and athlete and a mechanic. Huh? Forget the whole problem of how each of the "Five" ended up in the fleet after living entire lives (including childhood?).

We were told that the Galactica survived the initial attack by a few lucky coincidences and fast thinking by her crew. Even so, she was nearly destroyed countless times. How is it that the "Final Five" unknowingly, by chance or by hidden programming *all* ended up in the rag tag fugitive fleet that represents a very small percentage of the former human colonies and have continued to evade death? If you say it's good luck, then I don't buy it, especially where Anders is concerned. If the Cylon's are somehow pulling their punches, then guess what? A ton of the perceived danger that the Galactica and its crew has seemed to have been in suddenly goes poof. Neither sounds like an acceptable solution.

Oh, and remember back when Baltar's "Cylon detector" was demonstrated to work perfectly? Did Tigh or Chief not get tested? Was it simply expected that we'd conveniently forget that episode ever happened like we're expected to forget the vaunted Cylon "Plan?"

I'm going to go ahead and predict that most of the big unanswered questions never get any sort of real resolution and the show will end as it has recently floundered, in a miasma of half baked ideas and abandoned plot holes. Nevertheless, I've stuck with it this long. I might as well DVR or Torrent it and see if they can pull a miracle out of their ass.

There's really only two ways you can deal with it: just suck it up and realize that, honestly, they didn't fully know where they were going with this show when they started and try to enjoy each individual moment on its own; or you can let it grate at you and ruin your enjoyment of the rest of the show. I've chosen to do the former, simply because the show does enough good things (in-head Baltar still the greatest character in human history) to outweigh the bad things (plotholes, Black Market). But I can completely understand why someone would do the latter.

*Actually, I'm not kidding, that was once a theory of mine ... but I still don't want you to answer

I'm definitely not a hater. In my heart, I'm always going to appreciate the show for the things it did so successfully.

I simply regret that they didn't have a full time employee attached to the writers whose job it was to keep things internally consistent.

The result could have been so great as to never be matched in the genre. As it is, we can only dream of what might have been.

Of COURSE the Plan changed--that is a mark of a dynamic and intelligent script.

That said, they should've at least sketched out a firm direction for the show from the beginning. I do think (and hope) they are working from a complete plan now, and all the stuff that's been bothering us since the Eye of Jupiter will have an explanation.

So, ok, the plan is back to the original plan. Although ... not sure where the whole breeding thing ever fit in then if complete genocide was the plan. And still no explanation on what Cavil said and why they changed their minds -- especially since Cavil became one of the leading proponents of genocide.

In other words, the rhyme and reason seems to be missing on the Cylon side. It used to bug me, but I've gotten used to it.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's not over yet; there are still 10 eps to go. Let's just wait and see if RDM & Co. can still grab their gun and bring the cat in.

That being said, I appreciate the thought and effort you put into your post. I have had my own concerns over changes that occured at the end of S3 and in the somewhat lukewarm - compressed feeling of the first half of S4. Considering the depth of the show and the mystical quality of some of the story elements, this was bound to happen.

However, if there is one thing BSG has been good at every single season, it's been clobbering us over the head with fantastic and stirring finishes. So, I believe they can do it yet again. I look forward to what I hope will be a great show going out with a fantastic bang.

when discussing the humans who survived the Cylon attack, he said they are the only humans left "as far as they know"

As for Earth, he said they finally arrive at "what seems to be Earth"

MNG, your points are very well taken and I will hope for the best at your side. I cannot deny that when the show has three men on base and two outs, it sometimes hits a six run homer.

Oisin, I get the sense you only browsed my diatribe. The focus of my post was only a nit, but I felt like bringing up something I hadn't heard mentioned before to complement all of the other pros and cons that had been made so eloquently thus far by previous posters in recent months/years.

Of course character relationships are the bedrock of *any* drama and where the real hay is made, so to speak. But, IMHO, (as I did touch on) this is BSG's absolutely weakest point. Relationships have been so completely mercurial / unpredictable as to defy any experience I have with the human race. I mean, I realize that I have never been hunted by an army of killer cyborgs, but the kind of short term memory loss and inconsistent character traits exhibited by the denizens of the Galactica are beyond belief. I can find little justification for everyone on the show acting like they've been breathing some kind of toxic bipolar nerve gas pumped right into the ship's life support.

BTW, after Chromedome's admonishment, I did think of one solution to my analysis of the "Final Five" and how nothing fits. What if they are Cylons that have been uploaded into existing humans? Think of the problems that one idea would fix. Saul having a lifelong backstory known to Adama? Check. Other Cylons not knowing what the "Five" look like? Check. All the "Five" ending up in one place? Check. If they were "created" at a sort of uber "in-head" at some point right before the Watchtower revelation, everything falls into place. That would certainly make them "different" as Moore says.

Just a random idea and I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but I guess a miraculous save of the show's logic is possible! Haha.

The way they were revealed to us and to themselves was fundamentally different.

The way the Raiders reacted to them was fundamentally different.

The reactions of the Skinjobs to even discussing them was fundamentally different.

The fact that their identities were unknown to the Cylon was fundamentally different.

The way D'Anna saw their faces was fundamentally different.

We shouldn't preselect ANY limitations on their nature, their impact, their purpose, their intentions, or the intended use of them by Whomever.

Remain OPEN to the adventure ahead--and enjoy!

Excellent post.

I expect it was a partial activation, filters on their self-awareness being controlled by the Fifth, or the Cylon God.

It will be interesting if/when they become fully self-aware and connected

Let's roll the hard 6!

Remember: the nebula was along the path they were following. Then Kara returned. I'm still convinced that they were supposed to continue on a different path led by the Final Five, not Kara.

nah, that's just crazy talk...

Everyone left Kobol the same time Earth was getting nuked. That can't be coincidence.

Wait, what?

I must go to the bar now. On the flip, frakkers.

Far far more important is how Saul Tigh was the most dependable, strong character in the whole episode, and yes now he does have something to live for, some attempt at personal salvation. the asshole alcoholic self destructive XO who couldn't lead a parade turns out to be the bravest guy in the crisis tonight.

What's also next is to find out WHO or WHAT was behind puting everything in place. It is likely someone we already know - In-Heads, Kara or someone else.

In other words - "in place" - as in someone knew what was coming and planned ahead so that Ellen and Tigh would be reborn in the way that they were.

Beyond that are they saying these Cylons just arrived on Earth and slipped into our society at some point in human history and then created centurions who ended up somehow wiping out humans in a war? What for? Aghhh....i guess this one created a TON of new questions....but all worth waiting to see the answers for!

"All this has happened before and will happen again." COULD it be???

It would seem that both Kara and Dee are Cylons. I had thought Dee was a Cylon since that Kobol episode where she manipulated Adama to rejoin with Roslin to find Earth. I feel even more certain of it now. She went to be reborn somewhere. And that'll lead to ultimately to Ellen.

I had always had a problem with there being only 12 Cylon models. I'm glad to see tonight that they're saying that the Caprica Cylons merely believe that because that's all they know about. It makes it a little less mystical. And of course, Roslin is a Cylon. It's the only way she'll surivive and the only thing that explains why she had those visions. While we're at it, I guess it opens the way for Baltar as well. Or all of them.

/end rant ;)

That's always been one of my biggest reasons for suspecting Ellen all this time. Another being that she & Saul never had a child after all this time (though, now that he's impregnated a Six, that holds less weight. I thought they couldn't reproduce b/c they were both cylons). Plus, she was dead and not in the fleet when the Final Five (four) were revealed, so that explained her absence.

The HYBRID is the one behind it all :-)

Unless, of course, she saw Someone Else in the Opera House.....

Tryol died on Earth, was reborn.

Tigh and Ellen, same thing.

So, it could be that EVERYONE who died/dies there is reborn.

Dee may be back....

Maybe NONE of them are truly gone...

Shit, wait let me sober up with another beer. I think I've got this.

and yes, you're entitled to your opinion. as I am of mine when I say "eat shit and die".

Knowing the majority of the cast list for the remaining episodes...There will have to be a bizarre 'alternate reality' or flashback situation. Kate Vernon (Ellen) WILL be in the final episodes, as will Zak Adama - or they find the 'new' Earth - populated by Cylons that are the 'humans' they knew on Caprica.

Ellen is the fifth - it's not a red herring. It only shows that BSG is going to mindfuck us by the end of the series.

In the game a human civilization is on the verge of total annihilation from an outside force, and knowing that they cant survive in the literal sense, decide to do the next best thing and use tech (or magic?) to convert/ copy all their memories and genetic makeup into data which is transmitted across the galaxy. Er wait I think thats what happened. Reading wikipedia seems like a lot of work right now.

"I love you. I love you. You're special. You have a destiny. You are special, Kara Thrace. I love you. I built a dollhouse for you and me to be happy together. Look! A child! Out child! You will hold me in your arms - you will embrace me - and tell me you love me. I've seen it. I love you Kara Thrace."

(Kara is suddenly VERY special.)

(((Leoben FLEES)))

Maybe the Cylon race was nuked because they act like deadbeat boyfriends.

Those of you who are stomping their feet, insisting that Dee will return, and that Ellen can not possibly be the 12th...Kandyse McClure (Dee) is NOT on the cast list for 4.12 - 4.20. Kate Vernon (Ellen) is.

Oh, c'mon. How could it NOT be Ellen?

The previously 'revealed' Cylons were all a part of the New Caprica resistance. The 'Last Supper' promo pic - which Moore was honest about the 12th not being pictured - showed an empty seat next to Tigh. Her introduction into the series - even if it was something the writers pulled out of their collective asses - was always questionable, and Baltar sabotaged her 'test'.

Ellen never 'fit in' - other than being Tigh's bizarre soul mate. But that was telling as well.

Have you ever met a couple like Tigh and Ellen? Not Cylons of course - but just two fucked up people who are a textbook example of emotional masochism? They always get back together. They'll tear each other to shreds - but attack anyone who tries to separate them. If you've witnessed a couple like this - you tend to stand back in awe. They have their own reality. They are two neutron stars - feeding off of each other.

It makes sense. Our Adam and Eve are fuck-ups.

While I enjoyed your write-up, you missed one hypothesis.

All of the bodies found on 'Earth' so far are Cylon. Following your theory, was it the negative image of Caprica? The Cylons created human slaves who eventually destroyed their creators? But if that's the case - why the 'robot' Cylon remains?

Tyrol was obviously a 'free man' - shopping for food. Anders was a popular musician. Tigh/Ellen seem to be a 'normal' couple. If they were all cylons back then - why only '5'?

The big spoiler that has leaked out - the final scene will be 'Head Six' walking through a populated Times Square. How does that fit in??

All the same, I'll keep watching in the hope that they'll all break into "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life" at the end.

Sheesh.

I love the beginning of this show, but it has been a slow decline in quality ever since they tried doing stand alone episodes.

Moore, and his writing team really need to focus and try to distill what the purpose of this show is.

Frak! The ending is going to be so disappointing. :(

Hey! I think you'd like it! Also, check out Farscape. And Spaced.

Because BSG has been going for 5 years now. It's always been dark and rather depressing; so trolling the boards to slam it for being a "fucking pretentiousness-fest" is rather 2004 of you. I'm guessing it's highly unlikely that Roslin will have a humorous cousin - that rascal who was the crack-up of the Astral Queen - show up to cockblock Adama with various hijinx.

The series has ALWAYS been depressing and grim. Why are you beaming in to complain about it in 2009?

six walks through a populated times square.

sees a baby carriage.

says "how small they are..."

all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

Remember that the Glen Larson the creator of the original BSG is a Mormon. There was a lot of Mormon stuff in the original series and RDM has been winking at the original series throughout this one.

SPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSPOILERSP OILER According to some spoiler sites the final scene of BSG takes place back at that big plaza from the mini where Roslin remembers seeing Baltar meet up with Caprica Six. The entire cast is shown there happy and healthy.

Also remember when the whole cast went on Letterman last year in costume to do the Top 10 list. They supposedly shot some scenes for the show in Times Square. They are all some sort of Cylon. and Cylon = "Space Mormon" ENDSPOILERENDSPOILERENDSPOILER

I really like the idea (posted above a few times) that the Lords of Kobol maybe created skinjobs as a mechanism for being immortal. If that's the case, they may have become complacent, their lives diluted because there's no death (which is a theme of the show, or at least among the splinter group of Cylons).

Maybe Earf (that kills me BTW), was where the LOK setup like a "test" - a world of non-recycling skinjobs. Then they could have easily preprogrammed them with any history - so these cylons wind up creating their own cylons (the old school Centurion model), eventually develop a reincarnating tech, go to war with their creations? Or maybe the LOK stepped in (since it's their "project" and saved key cylons because they had something that could contribute positively to their other experiments (the other colonies) [?]

Regardless, their experimental worlds seemed to be doomed to repeat what happened to the LOK themselves, unless this cycle there's some new. Hahaha, I think I just paraphrased the plot of the Matrix :^)

The Four remembered their own lives (and deaths) there. Maybe everyone else is having similar, but less clear, connections to their own pasts there....

Everyone seems to have just shut down.

When they move away from there, they may recover a bit.

It certainly seemed to set something in motion for Dee -- like the guitar did for Anders - which indicates that she might have had Earth history and memories also.

I would be ready to believe that this whole thing was carefully mapped out from the beginning until I read the above-linked RM interview where he admits that they didn't decide on Ellen being the final Cylon until this season, and the very idea of there being a "Final Five" wasn't hit upon until Season 3. Still, there's a lot of stuff that ends up working well, whether it was planned from the beginning or not.

The thing that I personally like about Ellen being the Fifth is that there were so many characters (Laura, Starbuck, Baltar) that would have made everyone say, "Well who didn't see *that* coming." We would have felt let down because it would have seemed too obvious.

Not only that, but bringing Ellen back does a really nice thing with Tigh's character, giving him a sense of hope and purpose when everyone else has given up. The thought that their fucked-up relationship might have some eternal galactic significance is pretty cool (if, like someone suggested, these millennia-old Cylons gave rise to the legends of the Greek gods, maybe the Tighs were the source for Zeus and Hera, whose rocky relationship in Greek mythology actually bears some resemblance to Saul and Ellen's).

This is the planet Terra. Starbuck will be found to have had an encounter, with the "Ship of Lights", or whatever this new series portrays it as. In the old series, Starbuck was killed, by Count Iblis; and the "people" on the "Ship of Lights" brought him back. Also, any time the Galactica pilots interacted, with that ship (and later on, Edward Mulhare's character) their uniforms turned white. This will somehow explain why Starbuck has a brand new Viper.

...I wonder if they'll bring in an Eastern Alliance kind of thing...

Hera....

Adama's speech to the fleet at the end was an attempt at averting more Dualla incidents.

If they created the tech, it might have been in place for EVERYONE there.

Ellen may not have been referring only to herself and Tigh, but the more general we: "WE will be reborn, together..."

Athena stated that the Earth centurion head was a different model, so I presume the Cylon bones were too. In other words, if the current models have a resurrection hub/facility, the old Earth Cylons must have a rebirth facility - possibly close to where the Galactica is headed.

Just a thought.

Clylons don't dig Black OR Brown pussy?

This corresponds to the Brooklyn Bridge remnants glimpsed at the close of the previous episode. The landing party was in Manhattan; it was "our" Earth.

Dualla. Dee. What have you done??? I was totally blindsided by that one. SHOCKED. In fact, that hit me harder than the "Ellen Tigh Is The Fifth Cylon" reveal (which, I thought, was strangely low-key).

So much for my "Tom Zarek Theory". However, judging by the preview for next week's episode, it looks like my boy, Zarek, is going to be stepping up to the plate. I get the distinct feeling that RDM & Co. are now kicking it into high-gear.

From the alchoholic EXO who feared real responsibility...to the leader of the Resistance on New Caprica...to a member of the Final Five. He seems to be one of the few (barely) keeping it together while everyone else starting to crack.

Gotta love that tough, old bastard!

Tarantino and Stallone better be taking notes. Col. Tigh is what "tough guy" looks like.

Cant wait to see what happens next! Yay BSG :)

ever visited Rome or Athens, or even Cairo for that matter?

the stones are all that will be left...

It's also worth noting that the Brooklyn Bridge is in fact overbuilt (by today's standards) something like four times. The span won't survive, but the towers might last a bit.

The most accurate future for NYC is shown in the movie AI...buried beneath a glacier in the next ice age, a routine geologic occurrence in that vicinity.