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It took guts to draw that last panel of Hybrid.
by Snookeroo
Jan 5th, 2009
10:22:08 AM
Heh.
He he he.
by mrfan
Jan 5th, 2009
10:30:29 AM
Good one, Snookeroo.
so... Old Man Logan?
by Joenathan
Jan 5th, 2009
11:34:36 AM
I know Goose read it. Anyone else? Thoughts?
One complaint about Old Man Logan
by Continentalop
Jan 5th, 2009
12:15:31 PM
I haven't read the entire thing yet, just have scanned an issue here and there, but I do have one complaint about it Joenathan. Or not so much a complaint as an observation that this story is a little late.

In my humble opinion if this had been written about 15-20 years ago it would have a much bigger impact. Just like if “Day of Future Past” had come out 10 years ago I might consider it a good story, but it wouldn’t have knocked my socks off like it did back in 1980. So much has happened to the Wolverine character that the revelation of what happened to him isn't nearly as powerful as it could have been, or as “believable. Logan isn’t really the berserker-killer he once was, so him going on a killing rampage doesn't seem as likely or as possible as it did it the 80's or early 90's, something the X-Men actually had to worry about. He calmed down so much from those days and has become more like a samurai character than the guy at a biker bar (like he was during the Byrne's years). If the story had been written in 1993, I would think that this is very possible or feasible that one day he could be tricked into killing the X-Men, but the way his character has progressed and changed since then makes this seem like an obvious “what if” story, something that could never happen.

And even though I am one of the biggest Millar bashers, I don’t really blame him for that problem. A lot of other writers over the years have neutered Logan and made him into a character I could care less about. Millar is just stuck with the consequences of those writers’ actions. If Wolverine hadn’t already been “pussified”, the image of a pacifist Logan trying to repent for losing control of his bestial nature would probably hit me a lot harder.

Old Man Logan
by rock-me Amodeo
Jan 5th, 2009
12:35:07 PM
Well, I agree with what you say, Continentalop: your reasoning is sound...but I think your premise is flawed. The crux of the story is NOT that he flew into a berserker rage. It's that he was tricked into killing all his friends. He's not repenting the fact that he lost control. The berserk rage really had nothing to do with it. He's repenting the fact of violence that killed all his friends.

He's grown past going all crazy. I concur. But he hasn't grown past being tricked. I actually DO buy the plot-point that someone came up with a way to fool all his senses. I mean, look at the whole skrull thing.

What I want to know is: is this the same Logan that is in the pages of the Miller/Hitch F.F.? heh...
Old Man Logan
by Laserhead
Jan 5th, 2009
01:02:21 PM
What's really cool about this story is the way that Logan refuses to sell his kids' X-Box to pay for food. Just awesome.
I read part of Old Man Logan
by ChocolateJesus
Jan 5th, 2009
01:32:14 PM
And really enjoyed it. I read the first three issues, I think. I sort of assumed that the reasons why Logan had given up violence and gotten to the place he had gotten would be left up to the imagination. That panel where he says "They broke me", or whatever, and its just all the villains tearing him apart was a really effective, disturbing sentiment, where your brain can create powerful imagery. I didn't realize they were setting it up for a reveal. Oh well, I still really want to read the rest of it.
Continentalop
by blindambition238
Jan 5th, 2009
01:59:08 PM
Remember Old Man Logan is in an alt. uni. Judging by the fact that Jubilee was still hanging out at the mansion in her yellow trenchcoat, his killing spree probably did take place in the early 90s.
Also Mysterio could fool Wolvie's senses
by blindambition238
Jan 5th, 2009
02:00:42 PM
Since he's managed to fool Daredevil's radar and Spidey's Sense as well.
rock-me Amodeo
by Continentalop
Jan 5th, 2009
02:01:39 PM
I understand where you are coming from, and I should have added that it is my personal belief that the story would be more powerful if it were written back when berserker Logan was still around. Yes, he is repenting the fact that violence killed his friends, but that robs this story of any uniqueness. There are other characters out there who have powers or abilities that are fundamentally dangerous and that if they resorted to using them as violently as Logan they would have come to the same conclusion he did. I could easily imagine this same storyline featuring Johnny Storm or, even better, Ben Grimm, where is tricked into killing the entire FF, plus Alicia and Franklin, and makes a vow of non-violence afterwards. Or I could see Bruce Banner promising himself he will never lose control again and becoming the Hulk after killing the Avengers, including his cousin She-Hulk and Rick Jones.

To me, the story just works better if it was the old, berserk Logan, back when he would always resort to using violence as a first option and didn’t mind using lethal force. Because if it happened in those days, then it creates a unique scenario where we have to wonder if Logan was truly tricked into resorting to such a bloody act or did he just jump to a conclusion and was happy to butcher some enemies. I guess the best comparison would be a professional soldier who uses bad judgment one time and kills a comrade in friendly fire versus a soldier who always shoots first and asks questions latter doing the same thing. To me the latter is the more interesting scenario, and makes Logan feel guiltier.

Of course, I do have an easy solution for myself. I just like to pretend that the story was written about two or three years after Secret Wars II, and that it is only now seeing print.

Mysterio fooling Daredevil
by Continentalop
Jan 5th, 2009
02:06:50 PM
I always disliked Kevin Smith's Mysterio story in Daredevil. To me it was the laziest of writing, ignoring a character’s past and his abilities because you wanted some preconceived outcome. I mean, using a man who is a master of OPTICAL illusions to trick a BLIND superhero makes a lot of friggin’ sense.
OK
by Series7
Jan 5th, 2009
02:08:50 PM
Has anyone else been reading Freedom Formula?
New "pussified" wolverine..
by Redmantle
Jan 5th, 2009
02:37:38 PM
I used to be so bored by Wolverine, flying off the handle all the time, and I must say that I really much prefer the more laid back, samurai warrior Wolverine that he is now. I actually like the character now, and care about him, where before he was just "bad ass" but I could give a rats ass about him. I really liked him in Astonishing X-Men for example. Wolverine can now be a believable leader type character. I also wish they'd allow Spider-Man to mature. Different strokes.
wait, wait, continentalop...
by Joenathan
Jan 6th, 2009
09:12:26 AM
Just so we're clear...

Your main complaint is that someone came up with this story... too late for your preference?

... okay... well, I guess you got me there... Millar DOES suck.
No, no, continentalop
by Joenathan
Jan 6th, 2009
09:19:47 AM
What I think you're mssing is that the new "pussified" logan, as they call it, is very important to this story. Yes, he has grown past the beserker rage, the animal nature, yes, he has evolved and then in one horrible moment, none of that mattered and the thing he fought against the most ending up destroying everything he loved.

So, no, it wouldn't have worked better with the older, more animalistic, more berserker driven Logan, because THAT Logan hadn't made the solid human/family connections that this Logan has. The current Logan NEEDED the X-men to help him evolve and to move away from the vicious beast within that he's always fought against.

To have that beast destroy his family is the only thing that could have ever really hurt him.

Amadeo, I pretty sure it is the same Logan and I bet we first saw the Hulk's desendant sucking on his Mama's titty in the first issue of Old Man Logan.
unrelated question re: Farscape comic
by rben
Jan 6th, 2009
03:39:13 PM
was at the local comic shop picking up the latest ish of buffy (and apparently there's another new one appearing only a few days later. nice) and noticed a limited 4 issue run on Farscape. Anyone know if this will be collected in one book or not (being a limited series i could probably wait.)
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