At least they nominated Wall-E for Best Picture... wait... they didn't do that one either? Jesus Christ... No one cares about the Globes anyway...

Because I'm bored at work and can't be arsed buying a women's magazine to read the same shit.

ALmost all the huge set pieces I thought had to be CG'd up to the eyeballs were mostly in camera, Practical FX! and the cameras were fricking huge weighty Imax beasts that they invented rigs to carry even some shots on Steady-cam! Nolan pushed everyone in every area! pushing technicians and artists who have been in the game for years to stop saying it can't be done and do it! like the car stunt guy who actually air rammed the jokers big rig straight up and over on location! and the only CG'd out the ram! amazing or the fact they actually physically made the batpod for real from scratch and a pro driver learned to ride it! then they find out the updraft from the back wheel instead of snagging the batcape like they thought actually blew it up perfectly and the specially designed backpack for the cape to CG into was made reduntant by something that actually happened for real! I'm waffling and i only mention a few bits of what went into this but that's just from a technical angle not even taking into account the story and phychology of all the characters and the performances! Man i need to see this in IMAX! and I might be a bit byassed as I cant fucking stand musicals but fuck Mama Mia!

The film is a perfectly competently executed technically, and aside from a couple of cringe inducing moments, the performance are mostly competent and "good enough" to accommodate the high level of execution and sophistication of the production design & values, but it's sugary enough to melt your molars like alka-seltzer tablets. I mean how much Abba can any sane person listen to? I found it almost unwatchable. The girls thought it was "stupid", but "sweet"

But to answer your question. The Joker preyed on the mentally instable, greedy, and desperate. People will do A LOT for the chance at a vast sum of money.

Besides, he was new on the scene and unlike any criminal before. The people had to assume that if they played their own cards right, they could get on his good side. After all, everyone needs right hand men, right? Not the Joker.

I remember all everyone would ever talk about when the movie was running over the summer was that overrated Joker-pencil scene. Is that what made it a great picture? Let's think about that. The script certainly didn't follow a cohesive three act structure, making Pulp Fiction look like Robert Townsend's Chinatown. So there goes your screenwriting nom. What, they should give it to the Nolans because they made the Joker a mouthpiece for Psych 101?

The film certainly didn't produce any gut wrenching emotional scenes that I remember. I mean, who really gave a damn when Rachel Dawes or Harvey Dent bought the farm? I certainly didn't care. And Gordon's death was a hoax, so it doesn't count. There goes your Best Picture nom out the window.

I really can't think of anything else the film should be nominated for, except maybe Christian Bale for Most Annoying Voice. TDK is the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time. Heath Ledger will probably most likely get something for his Joker performance, if not the Globes, then maybe the Academy, who are all about politics and popularity. That should be accolades enough.

First of all, as the person right above me mentioned, what's with the Jokers speech to Harvey Dent. He's like a dog without a leash, just doing what he does without really knowing? Hello, this is one of the most elaborate villains to grace the world of cinema. The amount of pre-planning and thinking that went into his schemes is ridiculous. Hey though, maybe that argues his insanity better. To me, plot hole. It renders the Joker/Dent scene much less valuable.

Next how about the Joker in the cell, guarded by ONE old run-down cop. Are you serious? After the intense interrogation, and intense manhunt for him? They leave him in the IR, unshackled, with one cop!? Seems like a ploy to move the plot forward, but does not go with anything the film set up. Shall I keep going?

Remember the whole Joker tries to kill Dent action scene? Sure it was fantastically done, but when you really think about it, he went through quite the effort to kill Dent which he now thought was Batman. Now we all know how Dent is Gotham's White Knight, and without him the mafia cannot be prosecuted. And the Joker's plan was to just get to jail anyway to kill Lao. Why though? Why couldn't he just kill Dent, who was arguably more important than Lao. To me, it clearly looks like he's trying to kill Dent, but why do it all to go to jail? Plothole, that's why.

I really did enjoy this film, but it is clearly not flawless, and it has it's issues. Not to mention the botched climax, the rushed storylines, and abrupt scene ends. You fanboys though will go to the end of the earth saying its a masterpiece, which it was NOT. Once again, I enjoyed this film, and thought it was a good time at the movies. Definitely one of the best comic films ever. However, this Best Picture talk is nonsense. I'll be shocked if it were to win, let alone be nominated.

Is it "Best Picture of the Year"? I don't know, and who cares? It's a meaningless destinction. By what standard are you measuring "Best"?

Having said this I'll opine that anyone who thinks TDK is not at least a very good film, that is downright spectacular in several places, just isn't much of 'big production/blockbuster' film fan; doesn't know, or doesn't care much about how films at this level of production are made, or doesn't have any interest in the subject matter. As genres go, it is in fact more of a 'crime film' than most of what we've come to know as 'super-hero films', and very tightly scripted one as well punctuated with a couple of well documented/if overly 'fussy' 'plot holes'.

I'll agree with you that the film was done fantastically on all technical levels. However, just because someone didn't like the film does not mean their opinion on film is any less that those who love it. Such is the case with all film. To each his own. And I'll agree awards mean shit, but you wouldn't think so reading these boards...

And the Shield better make the cut too...Chiklis and especially Walton Goggins.

Of course, for the Emmys. Who gives a shit about the Globes.

I know awards shows are all pretty stupid, but jesus christ. way to go blowing the last tiny table scrap of credibility you had, Golden Globes. morons.

and by the bye, you just fucked yourselves with the dark knight. if it's nominated for an Oscar, you'll look idiotic, and if it doesn't, you'll shoulder part of the blame. nice move.

AVATAR - Fucking your eyeballs in 2009!

I guess the worst thing that could happen to TDK at the end of the day, it's a film that didn't win awards (if at the end of the day it does not) but is highly acclaimed and made $1 billion in worldwide box office gross alone.

I think what we need here is a talkback forum, through the Oscars, where we talkbackers can spout off on our own top ten choices. Even give us separate talkbacks for specific awards.

What say you AICN mods?

The fact that somehow Mamma Mia got a nom is way over my head. It's just so mediocre.

The Kubrick estate declined to comment.

Now, I will say that I bought the DK blu-ray and I'm also not rich. Should I have gotten a check or something? Are winning lotto tickets sold with Blu-ray players cause I didn't get one. Although my player did cost over thirty-seven thousand dollars (it's made of gold and diamonds and pixie dust, which is like $3000 per pound last time I checked).

The recasting of Dawes - who cares. The studio didn't like Holmes and the character wasn't refined enough for the actresses to make a difference.

The city of Gotham - uh, it's still the same city except this time we got to see more of the downtown/metropolitan areas instead of the establishing train shots or the Narrows.

The Joker's pencil trick and lunacy - how many handbuzzers and acid-shooting lapel flowers would it take to show how someone could throw an entire city into chaos? No, I believe the intensity was there and it was a more disturbing kind of lunacy; one that inspired fear and not gags.

Dent's arc - well, that's certainly open to criticism as it was a matter of story focus and compression. But I think we all would have liked to have seen a little more of Harvey Two-Face.

Antics aside...after finally seeing TDK (flippin sweet on blu by the way), I must say that Ledger's performance was simply amazing. Perhaps I'm biased due to the dude's fucking tragically untimely death but I've got to say that it is one of the greatest villain performances I've seen in a movie in 20 years easily! If not longer.

I disagree with the plot-holers as I think it's quite easy to run with your take and dismiss things out of hand that might disprove your theory. I mean, unless you've got dry-erase boards filled with storyboards and scene information, as well as the original script and some of the original story-boards, plus notes from Nolan, et al, my guess is you're either exaggerating the plot holes a bit, completely making shit up, have missed something, etc. You could say some of the scenes were extraneous or even a slight bit implausible (particularly the Dent descent from 'White Night' to lunatic bent on revenge) but I wouldn't call them plot holes.

Also, according to IMDB, Nolan offered the part of Rachel Dawes to Katie Holmes and she turned it down preferring to do "Mad Money" or whatever that forgotten idiocy was. I'm not sure if it was just a case of the studio not liking Holmes.

My only problems after 2 viewings (spoilers): Batman's response to the Joker during the ferry finale and Batman's speech to Harvey right at the end. Odd, but I felt that Bale (as Batman) had the 2 worst lines in the whole movie but it wasn't cringe-inducing or even overtly bad, just a slight miss. I do not think Maggie Gyllenhall is remotely attractive ("And you ARE beautiful!") but she's a far better actor than Holmes. The last line she says to Dent just before the explosion is what I think drives him over the edge. I can also see how maybe Dent had a pre-existing 'two sides' where one was the white night and the other was more aggressive and more 'ends justify the means' (especially the initial Dent interrogation scene after Gordon's "death") .

All that said, I'm still dwelling on Ledger's excellent performance and how perfect a character he created with this Joker. I'm sure the comic purists would disagree (though my guess is Ledger is far closer to the real Joker than Nicholson) but the whole "agent of chaos" thing was brilliant in my mind. Also, to the question of how can an agent of chaos have a "plan" if he's an agent of chaos? Well, that's because I think true chaos is a destination and must be arrived at...thus the Joker had a "plan" to create chaos. If he was chaos personified, he wouldn't have spoken to anybody or did anything that was remotely close to normal human behaviour (like speaking, dressing, walking, interacting, etc)...but that's just me...

Personally, I think TDK just might be the best super-hero movie ever! And most of that is due to Ledger's performance, no question.

That being said I agree with the above assessment of the golden globes. It's a mess.

Put a lesser actor in Ledger's role, the movie would have been a huge dissappointment.

It didn't help the rest of the film that Ledger's Joker was so mesmerizing and intriguing--when he was not on screen, everything else seemed pretty mundane. And Nolan's dry, emotionless delivery, nearly unintelligible voice really widened that gap.

No offense but if you think the writing in TDK is bad you are fucking moron. End of story.

And come on Nova. That line is only unnecessary if you're a raging fanboy. You're better than that

So to well reasoned individuals like 'funwithwords' et al, I think outside of a few, we know you guys wanted to love this movie and that you did not come to your opinions from anything other than your natural reaction to the movie. We can argue the semantics of plot holes, etc, all day long but I do feel TDK is one of the best comic book movies and in a way, it sucks that it didn't do for you guys what it did for so many others.

Personally, I'm still a bit overwhelmed by Ledger's performance...I think it completely transcended that movie and brought it out of just being good to being something much more.

I really do not envy Nolan the task of coming up with the third film...the studio will give it to us, Nolan or not, but if anyone else gets it it will be ASS for sure and even if Nolan gets it (which he will if he wants it and scheduling permits) he's already said he's worried about it and that it's traditional for the 3rd part of a trilogy to suck shaved moth balls and he won't do it if the story doesn't carry these characters along in a meaningful way...here's to hoping someone comes up with meaningful way but I will always miss the potential Ledger could have brought...it's bittersweet, really.

Okay, that was a bit mean. Perhaps he should just order them flogged in public or something.

Pretty much all of what you all consider to be "plot-holes" have been successfully refuted by various logical, if not un-debatable arguments. Are you familiar with the phrase: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?

Need I point out that TDK rates a 94% positive rating on Rotten Tomatoes? Are you seriously going to suggest that your nit-picky-ill-informed/un-film -educated "opinions" outweigh 262 professional/semi-professional /agenda-driven-jerkoff's OPINIONS?

I submit that you are masturbating to a self-indulgent assessment of the value of your personal opinion.

If you cannot type or read, do not enter the talkback. Everybody knows "you don't go full fucktard"

For what it's worth, MY opinion doesn't count for jack-shit either.

Starting to get the point of my somewhat incoherent rant yet?

But more to the point ... HOW MANY PEOPLE OTHER THAN LUCIUS AND ALFRED KNOW ABOUT BATMAN?

You have the whole R&D department making Batman's suits, gadgets and equipment. You have the pilot(s) of Wayne's plane snatching him and Lau away in Hong Kong. (Not to mention that such a plane flying so low in Hong Kong would be shot down by the Chinese in a nano-second.)

Looka heah. If the core of the Batman mythos is his secret identity, you need to be more careful working the story so there's no question that Batman's identity is safe.

I still enjoy the movie. I even bought the 2-disc set but IMO the bonus materials are pretty shitty. No interviews with Bale, Ledger or ANY of the actors? Come the fuck on!!!

Then they're talking in the car about how they had never seen the Joker before.

Hello!!! You just saw him standing on the street in full make-up, without the mask on!

Doesn't mean the Globes aren't shitty, but everyone knows they're just the foreshadower to the Oscars.

...just checked IMDB and the release date is listed as 1/15/2009. How can they nominate a movie that hasn't been released (and won't be until next year)? Can I go ahead and nominate Iron Man 2 for best visual effects? I haven't seen it, but I'm sure they'll be great.

Seriously, did I miss something?

2) There's a great bit in Cronenberg's THE FLY where Brundle explains how he subcontracted and subcontracted to manufacture his pod parts with all involved parties remaining clueless...same principle for the batsuits, gadgets, equipment.

3) The pilot and Chinese authorities in charge of Hong Kong airspace were told that a Batman-inspired Japanese beer commercial was being filmed, and paid off to avoid a fuss. Something similar probably happens twice a week in Hong Kong, so no biggie.

I for one am still at a young age, but have been an accomplished/educated musician for years. I've done work for many labels and independent artists, and played with some wonderful musicians. Sure, I haven't sold a million records, but does that make my taste in music or ability to play any less valid?

Tell me, what have all these renowned Rotten Tomato movie critics contributed to these films? They are not involved in any artistic process in film making. They simply analyze finished products, and then write a bit about them for the public to see. Exactly what we are doing. Just cause they've pursued the field and gotten a good job makes them infinitely more legit? Sure some of them are great, but a lot of them are just as much hacks as internet fanboys.

You really need to get over yourself, as do most TDK worshipers. Yes, it was a good film, but it's just a film nonetheless. It's there to be watched, loved, hated, criticized, etc. Many will love it, but there will be plenty who don't. It doesn't mean they're doing it to be cool and go against the grain (although I'm sure some do). I for one just noticed some issues with the story and wanted to discuss them. Why can't I? I'm giving valid reasons, and it's not like I didn't enjoy the film and am bashing it. Just cause someone doesn't think the film is "art", doesn't mean they're mental. Once everyone realizes that, maybe we can have some decent discussions.

Hell, I've got a friend who has never seen the last two Lord Of The Rings movies because he says the first one was terrible and says Peter Jackson is a hack director for what he did to the books. Another guy I know says The Matrix is one of the worst movies ever and calls it "a predictable shitfest".

There are people who don't like The Dark Knight? This surprises me not.

And what's with the bank manager sitting in his office while everyone else was being booby-trapped? First thing you do in a robbery is grab the employees and guards. And how stupid was it to come out blasting with a shotgun when the robbers have Uzis? That was a bit of a lazy setup.

And I repeat - the bonus disc is pure bullshit.

no need to argue with him, because HE USES THE ALL-CAPS-OF-TRUTH

It's also funny, you also say the Joker lies all the time, which is true. But it's also true that he's a dog without a leash, just doing things, as shown in his scar stories. So he's not really lying. It's just contradicted writing. In other words, poor.

Also, your explanation for the Joker escaping was very useless.

Anyway, let it be known that I dig your name. Is it a reference to Dylan, or Jagger and co? Maybe Humble Pie? Anyone would make me very pleased. If you like classic rock and roll such as that, I think you'd really get down with my band. Let me know if your ever interested, and I can point you towards our music. However, you probably won't be, but either way... cheers man.

Anyway, let it be known that I dig your name. Is it a reference to Dylan, or Jagger and co? Maybe Humble Pie? Anyone would make me very pleased. If you like classic rock and roll such as that, I think you'd really get down with my band. Let me know if your ever interested, and I can point you towards our music. However, you probably won't be, but either way... cheers man.

Son House, Bessie Smith, Robert Johnson, T-Bone Walker, Little Walter, Lonnie Johnson, John Lee Hooker, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Elmore James, Willie Dixon, Freddie King, Charlie Patton, Ma Rainey, Leadbelly, 20. Howlin' Wolf, Louis Jordan, Big Bill Broonzy, Skip James, Sonny Boy Williamson, Professor Longhair, Mamie Smith, Blind Blake, Robert Nighthawk, Memphis Minnie, Leroy Carr, Arthur Big Boy Crudup, Ida Cox, Tampa Red, Sonny Boy Williamson, Lightnin' Hopkins, Charles Brown, Albert King, Brownie McGhee, Junior Wells, Mississippi John Hurt, Jimmy Reed, Blind Willie Johnson, Big Mama Thornton, Big Joe Turner, Albert Collins, Sleepy John Estes, Rosco Gordon, Otis Spann, AND, Walter "Furry" Lewis.

I totally agree with Skyway about all those blues artists, although some I've never heard of, I'm sure there great. Furthermore, I'm a huge fan of the British blues, all those great bands like Free, Humble Pie, Zeppelin, the Yardbirds, early Stones, Blue Cheer, Jeff Beck Group, Early Fleetwood Mac (before the females came and ruined the band, Jeremy Spencer the slide guitarist does a MEAN elmore james, slide all. Not to mention a spot-on Elvis), etc, etc. I don't know if your into that stuff, but they really do great justice to many of those blues standards by Waters and Wolf and Dixon. If you haven't you should definitely look into all those groups early material (later stuff is great too, less blues though).

Really pleased to see some great taste in music on here. I'm also way after all these groups time, but to me, there's nothing better. This is definitely one of the more pleasant surprises I've had on this site. Keep jivin man!

you can check out my band if you wish at www.myspace.com/waterd2 ..........the bands name is heavy water, and those two songs are recorded from a live show we did last weekend at Uncle Mike's in Manhattan. Quality is only ok, and the vocals are mixed wayyy high, but you can still get the jist of the music. We actually have our cover of You Shook Me up, one of my fav. blues staples. Hope you check em out and like em! It's great to see someone on here interested, especially in blues. Actually pleased to have met you (even just online) after all this heavy handed debating.