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Nice.
by BangoSkank
Nov 12th, 2008
09:32:29 AM
Notice how it's THE devil? Just for you Joen....
Spidey's secret identity
by sean bean
Nov 12th, 2008
09:37:09 AM
Dan Slott implied in an interview that people appearing deliberately obtuse with regard to Spider-Man's secret identity is a deliberate plot point post-BND. There are certain times when it defies rationality so I guess it is intentional. How could Venom or Eddie Brock not know? How could Norman Osborn or Daredevil not have worked it out in recent comics?
Donb't know if this will settle the argument or start another
by Ambush Bug
Nov 12th, 2008
09:41:24 AM
Quoth The Man: "A man such as this, with power such as his, must inevitably be confronted by the most universally recognized symbol of evil on the face of the earth -- the specter of Satan."
Even so, Stan still didn't want to come right out and use the Biblical Satan as a funny-book bad guy:
" Basically, it has always been my desire to have our stories savored for their enjoyment value primarily. Any moralistic or philosophical extras which might be thrown in are merely Marvel bonuses. Hence, I was reluctant to use the name Satan, or Mephistopheles, or Lucifer, or whatever. Names such as those would leave nothing in doubt. So I settled for a name which certainly had the sound of Mephistopheles, but we weren't coming out and saying it. Besides, Mephisto is easier to spell."
Excelsior!
Battle Royale
by Felix_Happer
Nov 12th, 2008
09:42:47 AM
If youve seen the film is there a reason to read the comic?
My ultimate problem with Brand New Day
by Laserhead
Nov 12th, 2008
09:45:46 AM
Is that they've made it their stated GOAL to reduce Spider-Man to a formula, and that formula doesn't appear to permit change and growth of any kind. Instead, all these new stories are is a complete recycling of past Spidey-tropes: Mr. Negative is the Rose/Crime-Master figure; Menace is a Goblin; Jackpot is the Black Cat (just look at her ridiculously inconsequential "reveal" to gauge the amount of thought and feeling put into these new characters-- okay, she's just a girl. Any explanation for why she looks like and talks like MJ? Nope.) Forget the serious muddle this makes of the last 20 years, the whole effort is stagnant. Brevoort published a list of elements they wanted to maintain in this new series, and that list has essentially reduced Spider-Man, the first character to truly change and grow, into a simplistic formula into which you can plug any writer who's decent at penning quips.

Also, it's not a successful relaunch. It might look like Amazing is selling more copies because of its thrice-monthly schedule, but its been hemorrhaging readers since its launch.

Dresden Files
by ltgalloway
Nov 12th, 2008
09:46:10 AM
Pass on the tv series, pick up the books. They're a quick and entertaining read. The show seemed to make a lot of unnecessary changes, which made fans irritated. From what I've seen of the comic version Jim seems to have kept the storyline pretty close, but has adapted it for the more visual medium. I just got caught up with the Dresden Files and I'm waiting for the next installment due sometime next year.
Though, to be sure, there's good growth and bad growth
by Laserhead
Nov 12th, 2008
09:51:02 AM
Like, Peter Parker going to college, gaining self-confidence and standing up for himself against the people who want to take advantage of him= good growth. J. Michael's magic spider bullshit evolution Stacey whore retcon= bad growth.
"Preludes and Nocturnes" was vol. 1
by rev_skarekroe
Nov 12th, 2008
10:00:16 AM
"Dream Country" was vol. 3. Fact checking is hard!
I'm Pretty Sure That Preludes and Nocturnes...
by 8footTallGopher
Nov 12th, 2008
10:04:08 AM
....WAS VOLUME 1.
Re: Plot for "Gigantic"...
by Kid Z
Nov 12th, 2008
10:06:49 AM
...South Park did it! South Park did it!
Actually, Stones Throw...
by the maven
Nov 12th, 2008
10:08:55 AM
...you're thinking of "Dream Country." "Preludes & Nocturnes" was the first volume and dealt with Morpheus rebuilding his kingdom after a forced absence. No snark is intended here, my Padawan; just information.
Bug
by Snookeroo
Nov 12th, 2008
10:11:54 AM
"It made me long for comics that weren’t so mired in either their own continuity or the ego of the writer who is trying to make his own memorable stamp on the character. It’s just solid storytelling"

Beautiful ly stated, man. Beautifully stated.
Dresden Files...
by Kid Z
Nov 12th, 2008
10:13:48 AM
...yeah, the TV series WAS on Sci-Fi, after all... despite likeable cast members, Sci-Fi (as usual) cheesed out on the budget. The books are great though... just cracking good reads that you can't put down.
Feedback for Ambush Bug on Spidey
by mike683
Nov 12th, 2008
10:22:46 AM
I agree with a lot of what the Bug was saying about the can of worms with Spidey and Iron Man. But there are a few reasons why you can't escape the issues and I appreciate the heck out of Matt for at least taking a stab at it. Outside of BND and related Spidey titles there are still effects from the Civil War storyline that can't be explained by ignoring them: 1) Iron Spidey suits - they are still being employed by the Initiative and Spidey actually fought them in one of those comics. That speaks volumes to the strong ties between Tony and Spider-man before their falling out 2) Spidey being in the renegade New Avengers - if Spidey was never working with Tony the Mr. Bendis needs to re-invent a whole backstory for how Spidey got on the losing side of Civil War And to answer a specific question of how this Spidey's answer to removing his mask differs from the previous one is a pretty simple one. The Thunderbolts (including not one but two insane Spidey villains) are actively hunting his ass. This wasn't the case when Spidey thought he was on the side of the angels in Civil War. Then he thought that being with the government would be protection enough and he had Tony as an example.
Is the size of your comics stack inversely proportional to the a
by Dashing Roger
Nov 12th, 2008
10:53:18 AM
Is the size of your comics stack inversely proportional to the amount of quality play you get?

I ask this in all seriousness. I enjoy reading comics, but I enjoy getting laid more, and I have found that, since I don't look like Brad Pitt and my bank account doesn't even come close, I can attract higher quality women if I bury some of my dorkier qualities (e.g., reading comics, rating movies, getting into long-winded discussions about either with my friends in front of said women).

While I'd love to share my geek passions with women I date, I have found that when I do, the only ones who find it at all interesting or even tolerate it are the ones that look like, well, you guys. I prefer not to sleep with women who have to shave... their faces. So I shamefully hide things like my complete collection of Tintin books under my bed so I remain actively engaged on top of it. Since I'm not getting married any time soon, I plan to continue with my don't ask, don't tell policy until I meet the woman of my dreams, someone who looks like Cobie Smulders and who out-geeks me.

How do you handle it? Those of you locked in a basement who haven't seen the sky in 4 or 5 days can skip telling me how you "handle" it, thank you.
Can't help you Roger
by Laserhead
Nov 12th, 2008
10:57:20 AM
I do look like Brad Pitt, and my bank account's nice, so women tend to find my dorkier qualities a nice counter-balance to the testosterone-laden, alpha-male pheromone atmosphere I typically generate.

Best of luck to you, though.

So there is new work in the Sandman series?
by chromedome
Nov 12th, 2008
11:01:09 AM
Loved it, but thought it was ended years ago. Will have to dig into this....
"I'm wearing my best Yoda t-shirt...
by Snookeroo
Nov 12th, 2008
11:07:33 AM
...and women still ignore me"

Dashing Roger -- embrace your inner geek, but don't advertise it. Find out what interests your girl and talk about that. Women (and people in general) love to talk about themselves. There's plenty of time to reveal your "hobby" later, if a relationship develops.

Right, wrong or indifferent, comic book geeks are catagorized as "losers". As they say, "if you dress like Halloween, you're only going to attract ghouls". The same goes for the signals you send out -- if you look, act and smell like a geek, that's what you're going to attract. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but don't expect to date the Homecoming Queen that way.

ooxx,
Dr. Drew Pinsky

P.S. I DID marry the Homecoming Queen.
Hey Rog...
by loodabagel
Nov 12th, 2008
11:09:03 AM
Find some cool indy comics to talk about like Dan Clowes or OPtic Nerve. That way, if she doesn't like them, she'll at least feel miserable and unhip afterwards.
It's not new exactly, chromedome...
by rev_skarekroe
Nov 12th, 2008
11:10:14 AM
...it's a comics adaptation of an illustrated prose book from several years ago.
Lots of attractive girls like comics.
by rev_skarekroe
Nov 12th, 2008
11:18:17 AM
They're not usually going to be interested in the identity of the Red Hulk, or in how Countdown ties into Final Crisis, or the intricacies behind Spider-Man's secret identity. They like good stories - my girl is very attractive and she digs Gaiman, Ellis, Ennis, Jeff Smith, Moore, etc. Younger chicks seem to be into manga these days.

Perhaps your problem is that you're going after the wrong type. Try the punk/goth/alteranawhatever scene.

Iron Man Spidey Team-Up
by Skulboy
Nov 12th, 2008
11:26:09 AM
I'm a big fan of the ol' Marvel Team Up and was interested to see what the current dynamic of the Iron Man-Spidey relationship after it got so ugly in Civil War. I have not been reading either characters' titles, but know the basics of BND. After reading this issue, I just assumed that Peter had been working for Stark in some non-Spider-Man capacity seeing as Peter Parker is a pretty smart kid. If he hasn't, then I agree, doesn't work so well. I enjoyed the comic, but my big question was, when the hell does this take place? There's not a single Skrull in sight. There's mention of "the superterror attacks" so is that the Skrull Invasion or something else. Continuity seems very out of whack.
Hey, Felix Happer
by CaptainCosmos
Nov 12th, 2008
11:33:42 AM
Yes, there is absolutely a reason to read the manga! The film does not even come close to covering what the manga does. Of the 3 incarnations of Battle Royale (novel, manga or movie), the manga series if by far the superior version of the story. You get all of the intricate back stories on all of the main characters, the result of which makes you care about them. Even the most depraved in the class garner a little bit of sympathy. And then just when you really start rooting for them and foolishly thinking, "Hey, maybe they're gonna make it out of this mess!" -- SHUNK!-- They get their face split in two with a scythe in the very next panel. There are so many, "Oh, fuck no!" moments in this manga, I can't tell you. Plus, the sheer insanity of the ultra violence and hardcore sex you see lovingly rendered by manga artist Masayuki Taguchi will positively warp your mind. You'll feel horrified and ashamed that your reading this depravity, but you'll still find yourself staring, slack-jawed at this amazing (albeit disturbing) artwork. This manga will blow you away. Definitely pick it up, Felix. If you've got the nads for it.
The Battle Royale Tokyopop Manga is a bastardization.
by themikejonas
Nov 12th, 2008
11:38:00 AM
Giffen took the original Japanese manga (which hewed closely to the original novel) and pretty much put whatever he wanted in the word bubbles. He even shoehorned in that "TV reality show" aspect even though it doesn't appear in ANY version of Battle Royale, and makes no sense in the context of the art.
Hey now--Jackpot's not "just a girl"
by SleazyG.
Nov 12th, 2008
12:04:28 PM
She's just a DEAD girl.

Which kinda defeats the entire purpose of introducing her to begin with, and was shockingly stupid. "Hey, I know--we'll introduce a fun, attractive new character in a Free Comic Book Day issue designed to rope in young readers, then give her no real character development, use her as a red herring and kill her off!"

Why bother? What was the point? Why did she exist in the first place, and why on earth should I give a shit? Just an idiotic idea, top to bottom. I expect better of the editors and writers on SPIDER-MAN, but apparently Marvel prefers giving us the unexpected--i.e. lousy ideas from writers that editors don't stop, and lousy ideas from editors foisted onto writers with no choice but to do what they're told.

Got a question for all the readers out there
by kungfuhustler84
Nov 12th, 2008
12:05:30 PM
Should I start reading SPidey or not? I haven't touched the book in years, but I love the character, and am a huge fan of the older stuff, I'm talking the stuff in those big collections. Should I just stick with those or is there a way I can jump in at a certain point and still know what is going on? I have been thinking of starting Ultimate Spiderman from the beginning also. What do you guys think?
Here's my advice on Battle Royale
by kungfuhustler84
Nov 12th, 2008
12:08:26 PM
Read the actual book instead. It's what the movie is based off of, and it's probably a lot better than any manga bollocks. Then again, I didn't read the review. Is it even the same thing or are the names just the same?
Dashing Roger....
by Psynapse
Nov 12th, 2008
12:10:34 PM
Sucks to be you dude.
And addressing the whole hot girls and comics thing
by kungfuhustler84
Nov 12th, 2008
12:10:46 PM
My girlfriend is smoking (no bias here, it's ridiculous the eyes guys give her) and I have actually managed to get her interested in the Sandman comics, Hellboy (she loves the mythology), Watchmen, and she even has read Silver Surfer Requiem (the best Silver Surfer story known to man).

The stereotype surrounding comic lovers has got to stop.

Amen Laserhead
by Dragon Man
Nov 12th, 2008
12:17:57 PM
You summed up the other aspect of what they did with Brand New Day that pissed me off. I have never hated such a sequence of events like the one that lead to the worst handling of Spider-Man ever! Aside from the ridiculous notions of unmasking and retarding the character through the whole Civil War story – which was fucking ridiculous in itself -- then deciding to "fix" their mistake by ignoring all growth and continuity Spidey had as a character for the last 20 years, they've now deliberately painted themselves into a corner where the character will not evolve. It’s like they realized “Wow, we really fucked this character up” and now they want to make sure no one else can mess the character up as bad as they did. And I’m sorry but Mr. Quesada, why is it that you have such a bug up your ass about Spidey and MJ being married? That was one of the other big “mistakes” you wanted to retcon with the One More Day excrement, and it was the wrong move! Bottom line: Anyone else who attempts to write a comic involving Spidey and Iron Man together will have to dance the same minefield and probably won't fare any better than Fraction did. How can anyone be expected to avoid such a creative clusterfuck? Down with Quesada!
I just wonder how Joe Queseda still has a job
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
12:23:19 PM
Seriously. As editor-in-chief at Marvel, he has taken the Marvel Universe's greatest strength and achievement, continuity, and turned it into a joke. When the DC universe has more cohesion than Marvel you know you are in trouble.

Despite all of Jim Shooters flaws, and he did have many, at least during his tenor as EIC the Marvel Universe was an actual shared Universe. You didn't have to worry about one comic contradicting another.

Oh, and I love on Quesada bans smoking in comics, but he allows super-heroes to torture, kill or be double-crossing pricks.

Queseda
by steverodgers
Nov 12th, 2008
12:43:27 PM
Has a job because stock price is good and Marvel sells a ton of comic books and continues to marginalize DC in the market. 50 percent of comics books sold are Marvel books. Queseda isn't going anywhere.
Quesada not Queseda
by steverodgers
Nov 12th, 2008
12:46:36 PM
Good question, Continentalop.
by mrfan
Nov 12th, 2008
12:46:39 PM
He really needs to go.
I cringe every time I see "Franklin and Hobbes"
by irrelevntelefant
Nov 12th, 2008
12:59:05 PM
such a blatant Calvin rip off.

Barry Ween, Boy Genius was a much better book

Personally I think...
by optimous_douche
Nov 12th, 2008
01:10:50 PM
Marvel has had way more continuity cohesion as of late than DC.

I still stand by the fact that with this whole Final Crisis event DC has set up three universes that aren't talking to one another - Morrison, Johns, Everyone else...

While I personally didn't love Secret Invasion (just becasue I don't read enough Marvel books to truly appreciate it), I think it was way more cohesive how it cascaded to all other titles.

Is this Terra the same Terra
by Cash907
Nov 12th, 2008
01:17:13 PM
as the one who appears in Teen Titans? I thought she was well and truly hosed, but did they somehow manage to bring her back or just totally reboot the character?
Battle Royale Manga
by ScottGreen
Nov 12th, 2008
01:45:44 PM
Each version of the Battle Royale has its own distinctive characteristics, and the manga has an excessiveness that is particular to its version of the story. Rather than trying to be subtle or human, it lays everything on thick. Personally, I'd love to see Battle Royale 2: Blitz Royale released in English. With cute, super-flat inspired art by Tomizawa Hitoshi (Alien 9), its a real strange take on how Battle Royale was presented in the movies.
Thanks, Rev_Skarekroe
by chromedome
Nov 12th, 2008
01:48:31 PM
Spider-Man, JSA thoughts
by crankyoldguy
Nov 12th, 2008
01:55:21 PM
I dropped most comics more than a decade ago and started picked up used (amazon, ebay, the local used bookstores, conventions) copies of graphic novel collections. I got back into Spider-man thank to a few libraries having the JMS collections. I like his advancing of the Peter/MJ/Aunt May relationships (yes, some of the other plot stuff was odd, but no worse, maybe better than the years of clone crap and too much Venom/Carnage (hated that). Civil War had its moments. But the deal with the devil thing/turn back time, but not really? They lost me. Maybe I'll check out an anthology or two but the wiping out of the marriage and all was like going back to a fave restaurant and getting a meal that made you sick. Do you want to go back again? Meanwhile, on the DC front, I've come to love Johns work on JSA. I'm not crazy about the multi-verse revival and two earth twos. I like the fact Supes/Bats weren't the first and Batman has a relationship with Alan Scott, who's seen as one of the founders/elder statesmen of all things masked/super. Johns is one of the true few who can write on dual levels for adults and kids (my 12 year old nephew is big on JSA too and Green Lantern as well; we've bonded nicely over it all). Since I don't read/want to spend the money on monthly or even bi-monthly titles, I wait for the collections and I'm looking forward to the JSA anthologies of further Kingdom Come arcs. Too bad neither Barnes and Noble or Borders will let you exchange without a receipt anymore. I'm stuck with some books I don't want (some bios) and no, the friends didn't include gift receipts (who does for books). Or I'd trade in the graphic novel releases. Anyone else had this problem?
If Quesada was at DC
by crankyoldguy
Nov 12th, 2008
01:59:18 PM
then Clark and Lois wouldn't be married and Dick would be a young Robin again, among other things. He only like character advancement selectively, like Daredevil. Of course some folks want the same Clark-Lois of the silver age and you have that in all-star. Spider-Man should've got a similar treatment in another different book.
Comics my girlfriend likes...
by loodabagel
Nov 12th, 2008
02:12:52 PM
Dan Clowes, Will Eisner, Y The Last Man and Preacher. Whoulda thunk?
Shouldn't that say:
by Joenathan
Nov 12th, 2008
02:14:50 PM
Mephisto Rules? See your friendly neighborhood spider-man make a deal with A devil?

I'm pretty sure it should...
BND... One thing I don't understand...
by Joenathan
Nov 12th, 2008
02:33:16 PM
What is all this: it doesn't make sense talk? If spidey was in New Avengers how does Stark not know him? If he fought these guys, then why don't they remember? If so and so knows this then why doesn't he know that? Solid questions, EXCEPT, there's magic involved... I mean, you fuckers will accept a fucking time machine, but you can't accept a magic spell? Come on.

here's how it goes...

Everything that happened to spidey: new avengers, the secret i.d. reveal, blah, blah, blah... IT ALL HAPPENED! And then... Magic fucked it all up. Why can't any of you accept the idea that the reason some of it doesn't make sense it is because of the presense of magic? Maybe... MAYBE... its part of the storyline.

Why do you all try to twist you mind around the continuity inconsistancies (nerds) instead of just realizing that magic is fucking it all up. Thats what the spell was supposed to do. Its like that Telepath trick where the good guy masks his presense, he's not invisible, its just that no one is looking at him.

Why doesn't anyone except that? Why don't you understand that? Its called a genre trope, people. Shit like this happens all the time in comics. It can be undone. It can be the seed of a larger story.

...wait a minute... what if Dark Reign has something to do with the word... DARK! Oh fuck! What if that could mean devils, like Mephisto, like Dormannu.... hmmm... Man, I bet Arsenio is rolling in his grave...
by the way...
by Joenathan
Nov 12th, 2008
02:34:59 PM
the end of that paragragh was intended to be read in a really sarcastic tone... just FYI...
Continentalop
by Joenathan
Nov 12th, 2008
02:42:36 PM
I don't know what planet you're on, but Marvel comics has been kicking ass consistantly under Quesada.

He still has a job, because instead of pandering to retards knee deep in four-color bullshit, he's been busy opening comics up to other markets and bringing in more business. Its because of people like him, that comics are as viable as they are. Just because he hurt your feelings by upping the quality of his product while ignoring your useless opinion, does not make him a bad guy.
Also
by Joenathan
Nov 12th, 2008
02:43:36 PM
DC has continuity?
"Dream of a Thousand Cats", as I recall...
by Organs
Nov 12th, 2008
02:44:15 PM
...was not in "Preludes and Nocturnes". I think it's in the fifth volume, whatever it's called. I would like to say, though, that "Season of Mists" is my favorite by far (I've read up to vol. 6), if only for the conversations with the devil. NO ONE has conversations like that with ANYONE!
Spider Man doppleganger
by SpikeTBB
Nov 12th, 2008
02:55:41 PM
I get the feeling several of the comics are concentrating on what the casual fan general public perception of their characters are in order to hook in new readers. The comic business has become such a sub culture that they are painted into a corner in a bad way. They want long time readers to stay but also new readers to be added every day, and these new readers to become long time readers. How to create immediate income growth with out threatening long term income stability? That’s the smoking gun behind a lot of the decisions, I think. There are a lot more people out there whose perception of Spider Man is based on the movies and Saturday morning cartoons. They want to lure them in and present them with a comic world not very different than the dumber, water downed version that brought them to the print version. So now they risk losing those of us who are older and want more from out comics. One of the things I loved about Spider Man was his understated authority, for lack of a better term. This guy had been all over the multiple universes. He’s dealt with bank robbers on the streets of New York and cosmic demonic gods bleeding into our world to turn us all into chanting zombies. He met Dracula face to face and had the stones and sense of humor to ask The Count if he preferred Lugosi, Lee, Langela or Oldman’s performance. (Dracula thought they all fell short of his greatness ) Spider Man, a very relatively young age, gained authority and self assurance that even ageless warhorses like Thor, Cap and Wolverine respected (even if Logan won’t tell him so). This new pretender to the Spidey name is a betrayal of all that. I grew up on comics and have been reading them for 30 years. I just have a sense of the core personalities of these characters. Yes, different writers put their spin on things but I can just sense when a comic gets them right, like Wolverine having a sense of honor and nobility beneath the professional killer exterior. Logan has the heart of a teacher, if you prove worth his time. Spider Man has always been a multilayered character as well. His humanity stays in place, he is perhaps the most kind hearted of all Marvel’s heroes yet he does what needs to be done. Spider Man makes jokes and sees the absurdity of it all NOT because he is an irreverent smart ass, but because he keeps his humanity intact. Giving the choice of protecting/saving someone or catching the bad guy, Spider Man looks after the innocent out of his sense of what’s right. THAT”S what always made Spider Man stand out to me: his authorized well earned knowledge of what was the right thing to do and the heart to do it, he was a legend that did not feel the need to throw his weight around. He EARNED his “stripes” and had become a man in the truest sense. Not to impress Uncle Ben or Aunt May or anything like that. He became this man by choice because he wanted to do the right things. He was Peter Parker, the spectacular Spider Man. This cookie cutter formula paint by numbers Saturday morning cartoon off shoot, that’s not Spider Man or Pete. I hope they will slowly mature the character again and regain some of the legend they have cut away.
Gotta give the comics industry this...
by Snookeroo
Nov 12th, 2008
03:19:31 PM
they're doing SOMETHING right, because sales (around 6.75 million issues last month)are UP over the same period last year, and up 5% from 4 years earlier.
In an economic environment where almost all other magazines/periodicals are declining and/or shutting their doors, that's not a bad achievement.
BTW, Marvel continues to kick DC's ass -- I'm not really sure if that's because they simply have so many more active titles, or if their product is just that much better. "Secret Invasion" appears to be the title du jour, selling 164,000 issues per month. Compare that to "Action", which only sells about 50,000 issue per month.
Darn, my bad with the titles...
by stones_throw
Nov 12th, 2008
03:41:36 PM
Well, actually I was referring to the copies in Lucien's Library, just like Mr. Gaiman says in that afterword. Anyway, this post did have a point, which was to say that whatever that BLUE ADAM book might suggest, Marvel was dealing with race issues at the time. Like SGT. FURY & THE HOWLING COMMANDOES had a black GI, Gabe Jones, while the Black Panther, a fully fledged African superhero, was introduced in the pages of THE FANTASTIC FOUR about midway through the 60s. And LUKE CAGE, HERO FOR HIRE was a more serious take on an African American superhero than you might expect. Personally, I can't stand Marvel series that treat the 60s and 70s like a pre-superhero past. Concepts like Iron Man and the FF haven't really moved on from their Cold War beginnings, so they're really just shooting themselves in the foot.
Hey Dashing Roger
by Series7
Nov 12th, 2008
03:43:41 PM
There's always rape!
Dream Country
by Redmantle
Nov 12th, 2008
03:43:43 PM
Preludes and Nocturnes was the 1st Sandman Collection. A Dream of a Thousand Cats, and Calliope were in Dream Country.
And seriously
by Series7
Nov 12th, 2008
03:44:30 PM
Is anyone still reading Freedom Formula? I need to hear someone else opinion of the second issue.
Battle Royale manga is excellent.
by DarthCorleone
Nov 12th, 2008
03:53:23 PM
I had only seen the film, and though I enjoyed it I was always a little perplexed by the level of geek worship it receives. Anyway, I've enjoyed the manga much more for the reasons stated above: increased depth of characterization, ultraviolence, and outright disturbing but entrancing artwork. I don't have much desire to revisit the movie, but I would certainly reread the manga. Recommended. Just one guy's opinion...
Quesada
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
04:12:16 PM
Ok, some of you are obviously fans of Joe Quesada (or perhaps relatives) and while I respect your opinion of him, I do not agree with it. I have read many things in defense of him; well here is criticism of the man as Editor-in-Chief:

Under Joe Quesada Marvel dominates the comic market: Someone mentioned that Marvel sells 50% of the comic market. Hell, that is a drop than. Marvel used to sell 75% of all comics from the early 80’s up into the 90’s. So Joe has actually just inherited a company that has dominated the market for year (this is like saying that as president of Coca-cola I have made us the number one soft drink in the world; never mind the fact we already WERE the number one drink).

That Joe has caused Marvel’s stocks to stay high: Ok, when Marvel hit the Market, it was about $3.44 a share, now it is $27 dollars, so Joe has to be doing a good job, right. Well, someone is doing a good job but that doesn’t make it Joe. Marvel Entertain Inc. stocks starting sinking slightly in 2001 to $1 before jumping at the end of 2002 to $6 shares. What happened over 2002 to cause this jump? The Spider-Man movie. In fact, after every Marvel movie that is a hit comes out, Marvel’s stock increases (it was up to $34 share thanks to Iron Man and Hulk, and news of two more Spider-Man movies and the Avengers). In fact, the majority of Marvel’s wealth now comes in stuff not related to comics directly, but instead from movies, toys and video games. Comics are a very small part of their revenue now.

Joe Quesada has created new avenues for making money: Like I said above, comics are responsible for little of Marvel’s revenue nowadays. Movies, toys, games, these are Marvel’s bread-makers. And Joe has nothing to do with these parts of the Marvel Empire. That is Avi Arad (and I have some complaints about him as well, but I will skip them for now). And as I have said before, the comic market is shrinking more and more, so Joe’s success isn’t very great.

Well, Joe has been able to expand comic book sales: Quesada does deserve some credit for using trade paperbacks to keep comic book readers, and it was one of the things that helped bring Marvel back after being on the brink of bankruptcy following the late 90s, I still don’t think he has done much to increase comic book sales. First off, trade paperbacks cannibalize monthly comic book sales, because readers may opt to forego monthly series in order wait for the cheaper collections, not realizing that monthly sales are an indicator to publishers of interest in such collections. So he hasn’t expanded sales, he has just been having Peter rob Paul to pay Mary.

At least Joe has been able to get newer readers: Actually, no he hasn’t. Comic book sales are down, way down (just compare sales in the 80’s to now to see how far they have dropped). And the average age of a comic book readers have gone up over the years (an LA times article once said, “the average reader, a 12-year-old in the 50’s and a 20-year-old in the early 90’s, is now 25.” And I don’t mind older readers, but you have to realize that without fresh blood to fill up their ranks, attrition will slowly deplete your readers. So how does Joe entice new readers? He creates the Ultimate universe, which will bring in new readers because it will have gotten rid of all that history and back-story that intimidates new readers. Nice idea, except that you made the Ultimate universe so damn adult oriented (sex, violence, political statements) that the only ones who read it now are the diehard Marvel fans. Honestly, name one new reader who got into Marvel because of the Ultimate line. In fact, name one reader of the Ultimate line who is in his teens.

I like the direction Joe Quesada has taken Marvel: Ok, that is your prerogative and I will respect that. I, however, do not like the direction Marvel has gone (although I will admit, it is better now than during the horrible 90’s – Spider-Clones, ugh). The over emphasis on shocks and events, and his hiring of people who ever do not know or understand the characters, the lack of continuity and consistency, has prevented me from enjoying something I once loved. In fact, one title went so far off track he was forced to hit the re-set button, and even that he bungled.

Ok, but I understand why he banned smoking; his father died from lung cancer caused by smoking: Hey, eliminating smoking amongst kids is a noble cause, and I don’t have any problem with saying your comics should reflect the fact that smoking is dangerous. But he once stated that he felt that these characters should not be seen smoking because kids look up to them is hypocritical. Smoking is bad, but watching Captain America and the Ultimates kill people, even foes who have been defeated, is morally ok? Or to make Mr. Fantastic responsible for the death of Giant-Man, and not face legal consequences? Or to have Gwen Stacy be raped by the Green Goblin, yet have Osborn never faces any consequences for his actions? Or almost always showing anyone involved in the US military as a war criminal or jingoistic nut job (hey, I am pretty liberal and even I feel this is pretty one-side). And besides, if you wanted to show smoking is bad, show it: Have Jamison’s doctors tell him he has to quit after getting cancer; have Franklin tell Uncle Ben that his smoking is bad for him (like the Thing is going to resist his God son); have the other members of the X-Men or Avengers demand Wolverine stop smoking awful smelling cigars inside; and have SHIELD ban smoking in all facilities, forcing Nick to smoke out side. Anything is better than a blanket can’t show them smoking clause.

Well, at least he made the trains run on time: I don’t know about the trains, but I know many comics under his watch have missed some deadline and delivery dates. Not to sound like an angry old man, but when I was a kid I can’t ever remember a comic being delayed for MONTHS.

Joenathan
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
04:28:32 PM
So you are saying that any percieved problems in the Spider-Man comics is do to "magic"? So, when Tony Stark and Reed Richard's made the Thor Clone... "Magic."
Yes, that is what I'm saying
by Joenathan
Nov 12th, 2008
04:50:53 PM
neiner, neiner.
Oh sure, there are attractive girls that like comics...
by Thrillho77
Nov 12th, 2008
05:00:50 PM
but they seem to be, without a doubt, pretty few and far between. Damn near an anomaly in a smaller town or city.

However, being a student in Minneapolis - I know they are out there....shopping at Source Comics & Games and Big Brain Comics.

Oh! And a tip for meeting a comic/manga loving femme....
by Thrillho77
Nov 12th, 2008
05:02:15 PM
If you're REALLY desperate, just go to your local Borders on a Saturday and grab a seat in view of the Comic Book & Graphic Novel section. Then play the waiting game.

Again, bigger cities obviously work better.

TallBoy66... (RE: unmasking)
by MisterE
Nov 12th, 2008
05:30:51 PM
TallBoy66, Mephisto did wipe the world's memory of Peter's secret identity. When Peter and Mary Jane are discussing terms with Mephisto in the last part of "One More Day", MJ points out that Aunt May was shot because Peter had revealed his secret identity and there was no reason that the same thing couldn't happen again. Mephisto responds that he wants to destroy their "rarest love of all" and "...so if that's all it takes, consider his identity forgotten." Perhaps Mephisto magically whipped up some event to explain how the identity was forgotten, but that just adds an extra layer to the stupidity.
Good post Continentalop
by mrfan
Nov 12th, 2008
05:51:31 PM
Oh, and this never gets old...
by MisterE
Nov 12th, 2008
06:20:53 PM
http://tinyurl.com/67cwh9
"Magic" my @$$.
by SleazyG.
Nov 12th, 2008
06:23:21 PM
"Hey, Tony, remember when I worked for you at Stark Enterprises?"

"Sure do, Peter! You did a helluva job on that...ummm...wait, what? I *definitely* remember you working for me, but I have no idea what it was on! PEPPER! Get me Parker's HR file!

"Sure thing, Mr. Stark. Why, is there something wrong? I know things were a little tense when Peter resigned..."

"Really? Any idea why?

"None at all, Tony! I mean, sure, we all know he worked here--but none of us have any idea on what, or when, or why he left! Oh well--must have been some of that crazy "magic", right Happy? Happy? Hellooo, Happy? Oh wait...I forgot that cunt Sue Richards told Tony to FUCKING KILL YOU! Ha ha, silly me! Oh well, time to go back to stealing Barbara Gordon's schtick..."

Girls and comics
by gooseud
Nov 12th, 2008
06:39:22 PM
Ok, heres are the keys (coming from a guy who married a hotty who is perfectly fine with comics): 1. Dont act ashamed. If you act like it IS dorky, then thats how it will be percieved. 2. Dont push it on them, let them come to it in their own time 3. Whatever you do, stay away from superhero comics when giving them something to peruse. No girl is THAT cool, no girl likes Thor or Captain America, period. Use this line: "Here's this comic called Local. Check it out, read the first issue, and if you dont like it, I won't ask you to read anything again". Don't worry, your safe on that one, and then you'll like like a cool MFer who is exposing her to cool stuff that she never would have seen if she hadnt met you. And then you'll get laid. Lesson over.
Magic Memory Wipe
by Jinxo
Nov 12th, 2008
07:28:35 PM
Maybe they are trying to play a angle on people forgetting Spider-Man's identity similar to that used on Buffy The Vampire Slayer. The villain Glory had a secret identity. Whenever someone would discover her secret identity, that information would almost instantly just fall back out of their heads. Not that I care. The reboot was my exit point on SPider-Man.
Sandman, Terra, Girls and Comics
by Homer Sexual
Nov 12th, 2008
07:36:22 PM
Here I am staying late at work just to ask: Who in the world would buy a single issue of Sandman? I admit I USED to do that, but with them being a guaranteed TPB, and much better read in that form, it would be foolish to buy an individual issue.

Terra is a great character. Not familiar with her second incarnation, but the original rocked...the first and maybe only flat-chested female in comics (no wonder she was made out to be nuts). This new one isn't quite as good a character,but still a bang-up comic. IMO, Gray and Palmiotti can do no wrong. I love Jonah Hex, loved thier Wolverine/Black Cat team up, their Heroes for Hire and Shanna. Team them with Khari Evans and it's an A+ read, for sure.

Girls don't like super hero comics. They can be turned on to Preacher, Y, and pretty much anything that isn't your traditional super hero comic. This also applies to most people who aren't into comics...they like the stories that are good, somewhat self-contained, and NO SPANDEX.

Not that it makes much difference to me. No hot girls here, even though I have money, hair and (honestly) an athletic body. But, well, I am homo so there you go.

But Homer...........
by gooseud
Nov 12th, 2008
08:19:17 PM
How do you get the gay dudes into comics? Thats the real question! I'm assuming Y:The Last Man isn't QUITE as effective as is on the ladies? Oh, and for the record, any chick that can read the Preacher Vol. 1 TPB (featuring Arseface and more blood then the elevator scene in The Shining) and actually like it is one you marry. Thats what you call a "keeper".
Thank you for all your responses
by Dashing Roger
Nov 12th, 2008
08:21:11 PM
I appreciate your feedback. My conclusions:

Laserhead: I am quite envious of you. Indeed, I can almost feel your testosterone force field from here. Any closer, I fear you might spray me in the face.

Snookeroo: Without a doubt, the most helpful advice given.

loodabagel: Hard for me to make anyone feel unhip, but I'll give those titles a try.

Rev_Skarekroe: Piercings on chicks freak me out. I can deal with maybe one or two tramp stamps but any more than that and I start flashing back to prison.

Psynapse: I'm guessing you're a complete and utter douchebag. Don't ever call me "dude" again unless I give you permission.

Series7: That's an idea. But only if they're retarded. Don't want them pressing charges.

Aside from finding the right woman and checking out some less mainstream titles, I think I'm sticking with my game plan.

Thanks anyway.
Magic Ticket, my ass: BND thoughts.
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
08:34:43 PM
Why Magic is a bad answer Yeah, magic can do amazing things. And yes, magic doesn’t have to be completely “realistic”; in fact it is on the opposite side of the spectrum as realistic (although, am I the only one that seems to remember when Marvel’s magic system seemed to have “rules?”). But that doesn’t mean it should be used where it doesn’t fit. Spider-Man is not a magic-based character. He can meet magical beings, just like he can meet aliens or time travelers or even gods, but these meetings should be exceptions to his adventures and they shouldn’t be the ones dictating the direction of his storylines or his character. Doctor Strange can have everyone’s memory of his secret identity wiped out by magic, and so can Thor, but not Spider-Man. Just like Dr. Strange and Thor shouldn’t be using a Encephalon-Mnemonic Inhibitor Ray to cause everyone on earth to forget their secret IDs.

In fact, they could of used other things to “re-set” Spider-Man, such as a Cosmic Cube or the Infinite Gauntlet or have Immortus time travel back for him and change history, but even those would have left a bad taste in many peoples mouth. Why, because A) they don’t fit with Spider-Man’s particular milieu in the superhero world; B) it would still seem to be an lazy solution by the writers and the editing staff to try and change what Spider-Man has become over the years, instead of actually being creative; and C) it goes against his character – Would Spider-Man ever make a deal with the Red Skull? Fuck no! But now he is making a deal with evil incarnate! Someone who is worse than the Red Skull by a thousand fold! Like Spidey wouldn’t guess, “there has to be some sort of hidden clause here. This can’t work out right.”

My biggest problem with the BND storyline is that all of the problems (his new powers, revealing his identity, and his marriage to MJ) could have been solved with simply good writing. They didn’t need to pull this simple explanation, but instead could have been more creative.

To best demonstrate this, and how the writers should have handled it, let’s get a different character and apply the BND storyline to him: Batman. What if Bruce Wayne had gotten married to Vicki Vale, somehow became the Spirit of the Bat where he gained new powers, was given a new costume designed by Steel, and then revealed his identity as Batman to the world. After DC realized this was a bad direction to go in, would the writer’s have mics come up with a storyline that would have forced him to make a deal with Neron because Robin was on death’s door thanks to an assassin sent by the Penguin, and this deal would also conveniently wipeout Batman’s marriage, new powers and costume? First off I would hope the writers would never put themselves in that corner where they had to solve so many problems. But if they did, I would hope they wouldn’t use anything a ridiculous as I described to get him out of it (they could have Batman and Vicki Vale divorce or have her die; have him loose his new powers and costume, have Martian Manhunter or Superman impersonate him, so they could create an the believable lie that Bruce Wayne really wasn’t Batman; hell, have another Crisis to wipe out all the bad shit in all the comics, not just Batman’s). But for some reason, Joe Quesada and Marvel thought this was the best direction to go.

I wanna start reading spiderman again
by T 1000 xp professional
Nov 12th, 2008
08:45:45 PM
I've been a huge fan my whole life but I've been burned by the clone saga(yeah it's been a while). I casually read a book every now and then, but all i hear is the freaking continuity issues and problematic approaches to his character. It definitely feels like I haven't been in the loop but nothing is going on that hasn't been done before( and if something new has happened they just ignore it since the writers feel they have no where else to go). It really sucks when you're either too scared to read the issues or just not interested enough to read something that been rated "decent" at best. If a kind samaritan would be willing to lend a knowledgeable hand, it would be most definitely appreciated.
scratch definitely*
by T 1000 xp professional
Nov 12th, 2008
08:48:55 PM
new sandman? holy shnikes
Continentalop
by the milf lover
Nov 12th, 2008
08:54:58 PM
you said "Someone mentioned that Marvel sells 50% of the comic market. Hell, that is a drop than. Marvel used to sell 75% of all comics from the early 80’s up into the 90’s."

Back then there were like only half a dozen comic publishers. Now there are dozens that are producing great quality comics by well known creators, of various topics other than just superheroes and Archie. makes sense that Marvel's share of the market would be smaller.

Spider-man
by Redmantle
Nov 12th, 2008
08:56:52 PM
I wish they'd let Spider-man "man up" a bit. I like him being quippy, but he always seems to be lacking confidence. Admittely, I don't read Spider-man comics, but this is part of the reason. I tried brand new day, I really did, but is Marvel trying to tell me that with all the things that Parker has seen and done he hasn't evolved some genuine god-damn confidence by now! Come on! I actually kind of like the version of Spider-man in Spider-man and His Amazing Friends. Yeah, that cartoon had its issues, and was kind of watered down, but the Spider-Man in that was first rate. Firestar obviously had the hots for him, and Spider-man was the leader. Yeah he was quippy, and funny, but he had balls, and took the lead. That's where Spider-man should be at this point, I think!
about 'mixing' girls and comics
by the milf lover
Nov 12th, 2008
09:24:57 PM
I've never hidden or been ashamed of my love of comics, and it's never been an issue with any girl I've been involved with (well except one, who whenever we would fight would say I was wasting money on comics to counter my telling her she was wasting money on drugs; yeah, reading a Hellboy book is as bad as doing crack, shut up you stupid cunt). I dont see how that one thing could be a problem (unless she's a bitch, in which case you dont want to be with her), it's not like you have to share the same love of comics or Vanity Fair or Marilyn Monroe or whatever. If it's the ONLY thing that defines you, then that can be a problem. Or there could be something else wrong with you that's turning them off.
Sandman
by frozen01
Nov 12th, 2008
09:27:44 PM
"Dream of a Thousand Cats" is really awesome (most because I just love cats, but its a great allegory for any sort of self-governance, especially the line at the end about it not working because you can never get a thousand cats to thinking something at the same time) but it's definitely not in Preludes and Nocturnes.
And I agree, Seasons of Mist is definitely the best, although almost all of the rest of the "volumes" (I prefer books) come really close. The whole series is great.

Of course, I may be a bit biased since I, like most women, got my introduction to comics through Sandman.

We of the female persuasion really need to get over the "comic book nerd" thing. You won't find a group of men more dedicated to pleasing you, even if they may need a few pointers :) Plus, I think it's more "cool" for guys to like comics now, and girls, too.

My favs? Sandman (which I think may have even snuck its way into my personal religious beliefs and practices, believe it or not), Transmetropolitan (!!!aw yeah!!!), Swamp Thing (surprisingly, at least to me when I first read it... the "sex" scene was amazing... I think I was seeing things in technicolor for 3 days after reading that), Preacher, Hellblazer, X (or X-1999 - amazing artwork, love CLAMP), Lucifer (brilliant Sandman spinoff - Lucifer is a great literary character, especially Gaiman's interpretation), and some of the more in-depth, less superhero-ey Spiderman comics. Oh, and a bit o' X-Men, just for nostalgic purposes (loved the cartoon as a kid).
Milf Lover
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
09:37:02 PM
What you say may be true, maybe the number of quality producers has eaten into Marvel's domination of the comic book market. But by that still doesn’t mean that Marvel hasn’t lost ground to traditional rivals in the same genre. If these new competitors have hurt Marvel’s sales figures, you would expect that the would have reduced DC’s to where they were still only selling 1/3 the amount that Marvel was. But according to Diamond Distribution’s 2005 figures, DC comics controlled 32.96% of the market, while Marvel controlled 36.97% of the market (I don’t know if that 50% figure I have heard and read about before is for 2008 or for only the direct market). You just have to look at the numbers to see that DC has closed the gap tremendously between Marvel and themselves since the 80’s and 90’s.

Many things might have caused this lost ground to DC - bad storylines, the resurgence of DC since the 80’s, the near bankruptcy in the late 90s – and perhaps none of these are Quesada’s fault. However, my point wasn’t that he has lost so much ground in the Super-hero comic book market place, but instead that his company has dominated so much of the market place even before he took over that I can’t see how he gets any credit for Marvel’s dominance in the first place (steverodgers, 12:43:27).

okay I see what you mean
by the milf lover
Nov 12th, 2008
09:47:17 PM
I think Quesada gets that credit because people generally seem to agree that Marvel comics of this decade (under his EIC reign) are of better quality than they were in the 90s. Whether that's true or not is arguable of course.
Some girls like superheroes.
by Deathpool
Nov 12th, 2008
09:52:23 PM
My girlfriend at the moment (who is delicious and wonderful and gorgeous beyond compare and is watching me type this) can get into some superheroes, though her tastes do lean towards Vertigo-ish stuff like Y the Last Man and Fables. But she digs the X-Men, likes Green Lantern, and will occasionally pick up some other superhero-y book I've got lying around. So, its not impossible. Women aren't some systematic creatures that all have sets of likes and dislikes, they come in all flavors. Though I gave her Ultimate Spider-Man and she thought it was the dumbest thing on earth, so her tastes are obviously subject to questioning (It was worth it!).
Milf Lover...
by Deathpool
Nov 12th, 2008
09:57:08 PM
I would say that across the board, the comics of 2000 and up blow the stuff from the 90's out of the water, especially the mid/late 90's where it seemed like Marvel and DC were churning out mass amounts of crap and it was selling. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, people just stopped buying. I worked at a comic store once upon a time and remember my boss talking about it sometimes, how books like Thunderstrike, Force Works, Quasar and the like plummeted with only the big series' really being able to sustain anything close to sales (not that those books did gangbusters, but they were profitable). Look through those quarter bins at some of that 90's stuff sometime and be amazed at the hellish combination of horrible writing and atrocious art.
I know I bought a lot of that 90s crap myself
by the milf lover
Nov 12th, 2008
10:09:11 PM
but back then comics were mostly under $2 each, so I didnt mind the shit as much. Now if I pay $3-4 for a comic and I dont think it's great I'm pissed!
I'm a girl and I love superhero comics
by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl
Nov 12th, 2008
10:32:02 PM
Sadly I just don't read them as much as I used to but I did really get into Runaways, New X-Men, Gail Simone's Birds of Prey, Ultimate Spider-Man and so on.

I also have a friend who checks them out occasionally but is more of a manga nerd.

STILL WAITING FOR THE SANDMAN MOVIE.
by alice 13
Nov 12th, 2008
10:59:53 PM
plz.
I'd be happy with a Death: High Cost of Living film
by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl
Nov 12th, 2008
11:09:47 PM
Or anything else be Neil Gaiman the more I think about it. Coraline should be great and I hope it does well enough for movie studios to greenlight some more of his work for films and television.
Milf Lover
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
11:14:15 PM
While I am not a fan of a lot of modern comic books, especially the bloated event comics, I agree that most of the 90’s stuff was just God fucking awful shit. But I find myself harder to blame the editing staff of Marvel as much as I blame the current staff. The reason being that in the 90’s I think the EIC did not have nearly as much control as Quesada has now, and that the overall directions of the comic books where dictated by Ronald Perelman and other executives, who didn’t give a shit about comics just as long as they were selling a lot of them (hence the horrible alternative covers, new short lived series after short lived series, renumbering and generally bad gimmicks). Even after the new owners took over, they still had some bad ideas but at least they had the excuse that they were trying to revive a bankrupt company. In fact, while EIC’s reign was pretty bad (Onslaught, Heroes Reborn, Clone Wars, Spider-Man: Chapter 1) I will give him credit for keeping Marvel afloat and helping it regain its feet.
EIC during the 90's
by Continentalop
Nov 12th, 2008
11:19:48 PM
Was Bob Harras. I should have added his name.
Evil
by magsweeto
Nov 13th, 2008
12:07:10 AM
Girls, booze, drugs, reckless endangerment, illegal downloads...none of them are as good as comics. I should have never left you for the real world, Jean Grey. And by the way, I'm pretty much a genius when it comes to language and lore, and I'm pretty sure Mephisto is AN Devil. You're Welcome. Why is spell-check underlining Mephisto? Isn't he in the OED?
Why magic works
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
01:28:34 AM
because it does
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
01:40:00 AM
fucking deal with it. Its a like a jedi mind trick, man, come on. Whenever Tony starts to wonder just what peter did when he worked for him, he suddenly gets distracted by pretty lights and thoughts of boobies, thats what the spell is supposed to do. Its supposed to be awkward and crazy and not fit into the normal world. Why? Because its magic.

Now obviously this situation can't stay like this... Which one of you retards ACTUALLY thinks Spider-man will maintain this status quo? I hope the answer is none. Because between this, and all the hints at Dr. Strange build up, the side-focus on the Hood and now his connection to Dormannu... You'll see, kids, you'll see... I mean really, hasn't the hatred dark lord Quesada already show a tendency toward large stories that start slowly out of multiple spots? Hmmmm? I'm just saying...

My advice to you panty-bunched idividuals out there still agonizing over BND: If you seriously can't accept the fact that the magic spell is going to be weird and awkward and unrealistic by its very nature, then quit reading spider-man for a while. Go on... its alright, you can stop... really... its okay. Check back in a year or two and then... oh, think of how cool you can be, swaggering onto a message board and announcing that you stopped reading Spider-man years ago when all the BND shit hit (even though you secretly peak at it in your LCS... shhh... I won't tell) and then you can get behind the new direction and creative team and talk about how happy you are to see spider-man back on track... why, it'll be just like discovering that the true meaning of christmas was inside of you all along. Huzzah!

Personally, I don't read main continuity spider-man. Its lame. Now Ultimate Spider-man? Thats awesome. Have I mentioned lately how Bendis writes circles around Geoff Johns? No? Well, Green Lantern sucks balls! Hi-Yah!
Also
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
01:44:20 AM
Spider-man lives in the same world as Doom and Strange, therefore, magic is a part of his world, so it fits. I know you wish it didn't, but it does. Its an accepted part of the Marvelverse. Its a known quanity. You can make all the declarations you want to, but it won't change the fact that magic is a part of spider-man's world. He may not be able to weild it, it may not be an every day facet of his world, but he certainly has a long history with it, he is certainly familiar with it.
I dont have a problem with BND magic
by the milf lover
Nov 13th, 2008
02:00:58 AM
the problem is they had to resort to it to "fix" all the damage that had been done by years of crap writing and the stupidity of unmasking him in the first place, and to fulfill Quesada's wish of unmarrying Spidey. I agree tho that too many people knew his identity, but not all of it was bad, they actually improved Aunt May by having her finally find out. But whatever, I only buy Spider-man when John Romita Jr is the artist. New Ways To Die was a pretty good read, despite all the BND nonsense. If I want to read great Spidey stories I'll pull out my old 70s-80s comics. Someday I'll buy the Essential collections too.
Ugh, okay. Regarding women and comics...
by Organs
Nov 13th, 2008
02:27:03 AM
Or, well, any geeky interest: It's not that you're into geeky things that turns off some women. It's that you don't acknowledge other activities that she may enjoy.

If you love comics to the point where the recent presidential election barely registered with your consciousness, then yes, it'll be a turnoff. If you have a variety of interests--one of which being comics--then it'll just be another interest.

See, ANYTHING can be a geeky interest. There are two points to be made about geek things like Dungeons and Dragons, video games, Star Trek, comics, etc. etc., and they are thus: 1) Compared with people who play basketball, go bowling, ride bikes, go to the movies, theater, concerts, and whatever else, the geek stuff is obscure and foreign, and 2) People who are really into geeky stuff are so into it that their notice of the outside world is limited at best. So, if a guy is really into Fantasy Football, then that can become an obsession that would turn a girl off.

Illustrating my point, have you ever met someone who plays World of Warcraft? Okay, here's the thing. While unlikely, it is possible to play the game merely on occasion and lead a normal, functional life that can include girls, and even women. It's not the game; it's how people get sucked into it.

And finally, yes, there are cute girls into all these really geeky things. I used to go to an annual anime convention, and lemme tell you: some of those girls in costumes are pretty easy on the eyes.
Milf Lover
by Continentalop
Nov 13th, 2008
03:05:06 AM
I agree with what you have written above. Like you, my problem wasn’t with “magic” per say but they had resorted to using it as a lazy solution to a problem that shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Yes, anything can happen with magic, but that doesn’t mean the use of it wasn’t a bad idea. Shit, Spider-Man could have gotten a hold of the Cosmic Cube from Thanos and reshaped reality and it would still have been a lazy solution (but it would have made more sense).

Milf Lover, you mentioned you read 70’s or 80’s comics if you want a good Spidey story. Well my question for you is can you imagining them ever having Spider-Man make a deal with Mephisto to undo several years of bad stories (well, first off they probably wouldn’t of had several years of bad stories)? Hell no, right? They wouldn’t have let the writers solve the problem using Mephisto as some sort of dues ex machina, or in this case diabolus ex machina. They would have forced them to earn a No Prize in getting Peter Parker out of the corner that he had been painted into.

PS - Yeah get the Essentials. They might be black and white, but they are worth it. Also, buy the Amazing Spider-Man DVD-Rom. It has every issues up to June 2006.

Bendis writes circles around Johns?
by Laserhead
Nov 13th, 2008
07:16:15 AM
Only if by 'circles' you mean 'spinning quickly in place like a retard trying to give himself a head-rush.' Slope-browed mouth-breathers who want their comic books to be pale imitations of Aaron Sorkin TV: Bendis is your jew.
My two cents....
by BangoSkank
Nov 13th, 2008
08:11:12 AM
One: The fact that --out there right now-- there is someone who calls herself The Spifftacular Squirrel Girl, and who likes superhero comics.... Well, it makes my heart sing....

Two: I hate to say it, but I agree with Joenathan. Although I despise that a deal with THE Devil was made, there's magic afoot, and I think that it's building toward something... Probably another big, messy crossover of some sort. At the end of which, Aunt May's life will be saved in a retro-retro-reboot by Peter... And, that many of the superheros will figure out that some kind of hinky magic was being used, but only a few will remember exactly what. Peter will likely carry a great deal of guilt over this, 'cause you know, that's his thing. Or, something equally retarded.

Finally: I never had much of an issue with the comics versus chicks debate, most thought it was goofily charming.... But I never had any success in trying to get anyone to read them, so gave it up as a lost cause.

Spiff, Bango, and Joen
by gooseud
Nov 13th, 2008
08:35:34 AM
Spiff: Pics or werk heh hehe heh Bango: keep the faith, man. Just throw anything Vertigo in front of a chick, its like fantasy football to guys, they cant resist! Joen: I'm not convinced you arent simply a troll, but heres the thing: everyone understands how the magic thing works. They just think its lame. "Because I said so" is weak as a driving force behind a storyline, just my 2 cents.
Spider-Man's deal with the Devil, Brand New Day bullshit.
by Leafar the Lost
Nov 13th, 2008
08:39:52 AM
...was total, complete bullshit. It makes me mad for one simple reason; it was completely unneccesary. You already had a way to explain Peter Parker unmasking on TV; he was a Skrull. It would have answered that question, and then you could have had Peter Parker DIVORCE Mary Jane. Instead, you make up this bullshit deal with the Devil, and somehow everyone in the world has forgotten that Peter revealed his secret idenity on TV. Bullshit! Marvel needs to have a Crisis to fix it, because of one character. Of course, it won't happen. Hey, the sales are up, so what is the big deal? I haven't bought a Spider-Man book in years, and I do not intend too.
MILF
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
08:47:52 AM
Who says they're "fixing" anything? This magic spell thing, to me, looks like a storyline. You'll see, it'll begin to unravel... why? Because it makes no sense, too many people should remember something (remember in the Sentry trade how his spell kept coming undone over the years? Same thing.) and soon Dr. Strange is going to come back and notice the disturbance in the force and blah, blah, blah.
Alright thats enough
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
08:50:44 AM
Are you guys really seriously discussing how to be a geek and meet chicks at the same time on the AICN @sshole talkback?

Stop that!

For christ's sake, have some pride.
But Laserhead,
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
08:52:37 AM
I DO want my comics to be pale imitations of Aaron Sorkin TV...

Bendis can be my jew any time he wants.
YEAH BANGO!
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
08:55:54 AM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Great minds, huh?

But its "A Devil" not "THE Devil", you had a typo there...
"Its just lame"
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
08:57:47 AM
uh huh

I think what you really mean to say is: "WAAAAAH! I MISS MARY JANE! WAAAAAAAH! PETER WAS SOOOO HAPPY! WAAAAAH!"

And Goose, I'm not entirely convinced that YOU'RE not a troll, so there.
Girls tend to like really good superhero comics.
by rev_skarekroe
Nov 13th, 2008
09:21:43 AM
Watchmen, for example. But even then, their enjoyment tends to be lukewarm in comparison to Vertigo-esque material. For example, my girl enjoyed the clone saga in Ultimate Spider-Man enough that she actually geeked out when Ultimate Nick Fury showed up in the Iron Man movie. But she has no desire to see what Ultimate Spidey is up to month after month.
I also have a Doktor Sleepless review
by Laserhead
Nov 13th, 2008
09:33:09 AM
I just read the hardcover collection, and if you missed the first 8 issues, let me fill you in. In the main, two things occur:

1) Various characters with identically abrasive personalities catalog the theoretical technologies Ellis is currently foaming for ("One day people will be able to plug this into their blah-blah-blah TALK to BUILDINGS and TREES blah-blah-blah can you imagine blah-blah-blah)

2)The main character walks around a city repeatedly reminding us that he's got big, BIG plans for this place (plans which presumably occur sometime beyond this $34.99 book). Awesome.

Ultimate Spidey
by Slaphappy Slim
Nov 13th, 2008
10:57:11 AM
Whoever it was asking if he/she should read Ultimate Spidey from the beginning (and I have), the answer is ABSOLUTELY. In my 30 years of reading comics I don't know if I've ever seen a title maintain such a level of consistency. Like a good many others here, I'd take a pass on main continuity Spidey until they sort out some of the clusterfuck.
hahahahahaha
by Slaphappy Slim
Nov 13th, 2008
11:00:24 AM
Also, as usual, joenathan is a condescending douchebag to everybody he disagrees with here. And it never stops being utterly hysterical, as he is brilliant at it.
Joenathan..
by SpikeTBB
Nov 13th, 2008
11:56:54 AM
I hope you are right about the Faustian deal being a storyline and the spell will fall apart as Spider Man gets his spine back. That would actually make a good thread out of this tangled mess and give some good writers a lot to work with. They can even pretend they meant it that way all along. Like Pee Wee Herman and his bike wreck "I meant to do that"
I heart you Slaphappy
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
12:00:05 PM
BIG time. Never doubt that. If for no other reason then I am in complete agreement with you about Ultimate Spider-man. You don't see a book that consistantly well down any more, shit, you barely even see a book thats consistant anymore...

Unless its by Loeb, Winnick or Liefeld, then its consitantly crappy.
Spike
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
12:10:13 PM
I hope I'm right too, because otherwise, not only would the whole BND thing suck, but I would be wrong and that would REALLY suck. I was wrong about their plans for World War Hulk, so... I guess it could happen a second time... anything's possible... especially where magic is concerned...

See what I did there?

Honestly, I just don't think that they could NOT be aware of the problems with this current status quo. They have to be. This is there job. Besides, Slott's acknowledged it, so... We'll see, I guess.

Also, I don't really think Green Lantern sucks balls, it was just fun to say.



A devil
As magsweeto pointed out....
by BangoSkank
Nov 13th, 2008
12:36:04 PM
It's not "a devil" or "the Devil, but "AN Devil".

Though, having described himself a linguistic genius, I hope he was being as sarcastic as I am now.

The problems many readers have with BND
by Continentalop
Nov 13th, 2008
01:44:19 PM
So you like the current storyline. Fine. And you think it will have a payoff. Great. You might be right. But that doesn’t mean the following criticisms of BND are not true:

1) That Joe Quesada and the writers of Spider-Man had realized that they had taken Spider-Man down a wrong path, that they had made a character who bore little resemblance to the original and that this new direction was going to hurt the character in the future. Especially in sales and when people saw he bore little resemblance to the one in the movies.

2) That the BND storyline is just an easy solution, a “diabolus ex machina” as I said above. Instead of having a story that develops organically and naturally, which has been the standard of the Spider-Man comic for nearly 50 years, they decide to have someone come along and “magically” change everything. I mean he gives up his love for MJ to save the life of Aunt May, why would Mephisto give a shit about restoring his secret identity and getting rid of his fugitive status? The answer being that it was the easy thing to do.

3) That this does not fit the Spider-Man comic, since he shouldn’t be having magic as the centerpiece of a storyline that changes his fundamental character any more than Doctor Strange should have science. Wouldn’t you find it stupid if Dr. Strange asked Kang for help in erasing his memory from the world by using his Time Machine? Doesn’t fit. Well, Same thing with Spider-Man and Mephisto. There are certain things he shouldn’t be involved in. You haven’t seen Spider-Man as a Herald of Galactus, wielder of Thor’s hammer or have him take on Ego the Living Planet. Certain things don’t work for Spider-Man.

4) It also doesn’t fit his character, whose mantra has always been “with great power comes great responsibility.” While he might be tempted, the Peter Parker I know would never accept a deal with a character that resembles Satan. He would realize that as much as he wants his Aunt May to live and he loves her, he would make the hard choice of letting her die because he wouldn’t want to play God, or pay the price for doing so.

5) It also doesn’t fit the character of Mephisto. How often has he met Spider-Man before this? A Holiday special where Spider-Man battles to save the Spirit of Christmas is the only time I remember. So why would he show up now to deal with Spider-Man now (see #2 above for the answer)?

6) That in the end this will only leave you with a bad taste. Spider-Man made a deal with Mephisto, the/a/an devil, Marvel’s comics ultimate Satanic figure, but we know he will never have to make any real sacrifice at the end of this storyline, and that Spider-Man will go back to the old status quo with only a couple illusions of change thrown in. The moral of when you make a deal with the devil is that the deal never works out and the price is always to high. Do you expect to see anything permanent and horrible happen to Peter Parker himself? No, we will only get a story where he suffers damnation and torment for one or two issues, but than Doc Strange or someone else (does Loki still owe him a favor) will come to his rescue, so in the end he will not have to face any permanent consequences for his lapse in moral judgment. Spider-Man won’t have to worry about spending eternity in hell, being cursed (Ghost-Spider anyone) or even have his happy-go-lucky personality changed by the fact that his actions might have damned others. In 5 years it will be forgotten, just another whacky adventure for Spider-Man, and not the character building events like Captain Stacy and Gwen Stacy’s deaths were.

So if none of this bothers you, ok. But it bothers me, and others like me. And I am waiting for someone to point out how any of these points that I have listed above are not accurate.

And as for the suggestion that we should just wait until a new team and creative direction, my problem with that is that I am a Spider-Man fan. I want to read a good Spider-Man comic, preferably now instead of having to wait years before that can happen. But they way things are going, I might as well stop reading him all together, which I imagine a lot of readers might be contemplating.

it's a love-in, then
by Slaphappy Slim
Nov 13th, 2008
02:03:28 PM
joenathan is right on point: there's little to no CONSISTENCY with comics anymore. Different books used to have their own identities, and would be allowed to develop the characters and their worlds in a manner, and with a pacing, that made sense. Without a crisis/invasion/cross-over shitstorm to tie in with every other month. When I was growing up, Roger Stern/Romita Jr.s ASM was a perfect example. Ultimate Spidey is a throwback in the sense that it's one of the few modern titles that retains that quality, thank God. The creative teams sticking around for more than five minutes (and being on schedule) helps a great deal in this regard, to be sure.
Actually
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
02:09:24 PM
I wouldn't say that I "like" the storyline, because I don't read it.

My whole stance is that it is obvious to me, that SOMETHING else is going on, that BND is not a 'fix" in the way the first Crisis attempted to be. All I’m saying is that I think they are planning something. That’s all. On to your points…

1. I bet Spider-man ends up in the same place as he was when its all said and done, maybe with an alteration or two, but back to where he was Post Civil War, but then I have absolutely nothing to base that speculation off of... much like you with yours...

2. This is also nothing but negative speculation on your part based primarily on the fact that you disapprove of the current storyline. If someone more tolerant were to speculate (like me), perhaps their speculation on why BND was created would go as thus: "They decided to use the magic route, obviously, because it was new and different and crazy, ESPECIALLY where Spider-man is concerned, also, there's a larger story to be told here, one that strikes right at the center of who Spider-man is: A story about Responsibility.

3.Ah.... Didn't we have a Cosmic Spider-man a while back? Wasn't there some magic Spider Talisman bullshit going on for a time? Spider-man often goes to Reed Richards with big problems that require Science, so why not use magic if he needs to? So why, your next question will be, didn't he go to Strange then? Duh, its because what Spider-man wanted to do is a bad thing and he knows it and he also knew that Strange (who was also missing at the time) would never allow it. Spider-man was acting rashly, IRRESPONSIBLLY even, in order to save a loved one and Strange's answer would have been that sometimes you just have to face things and take RESPONSIBILITY for your actions. (MESSAGE!)

4. See 2 and 3

5. Hmmmm... maybe it fits in with a larger story, maybe the powers of Hell are marshalling and laying plans to attack and then rule in a... DARK REIGN! The signs are all there. Keep watching the sky! His coming has been foretold! Behold Goza the Gozarian!

6. I disagree, I bet Spidey carries a lot of guilt from the aftermath of this. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the death of Aunt May either. The guilt thing... thats all spider-man. Its classic. Also, do you REALLY want o see Spider-man rot in hell… that weird…

So there, there are some possible answers. As for all your boo-hooing at the end there over being a fan... stop it. Be a man. Marvel owes you nothing. If you don't like the product, stop supporting it. Get down off the cross, son, someone else needs the wood.
Continentalop
by Slaphappy Slim
Nov 13th, 2008
02:10:45 PM
Hey, I agree with you on some, not all, of your points, and I'm just about as unhappy with ASM as I've ever been. But the truth is, all of us who don't like what's going on ARE just going to have to wait a while until things sort out/settle down. Look at it this way: you can save yourself a few bucks a month for a while, and in this economy, that ain't all that bad of a thing. I mean, I HATE not buying a Spidey comic drawn by Romita Jr., but for now them's the breaks.
You could always get Kick Ass
by Joenathan
Nov 13th, 2008
02:26:42 PM
cause JRJR is certainly doing that on that title.
Kudos
by Continentalop
Nov 13th, 2008
04:13:19 PM
I give you a lot of credit for answering my questions very logically and thoughtfully, and you have made many good points; however, I disagree with some of your responses. I imagine that my arguments will not sway you, but I will still present them.

First off, you see BND as being planned and that everything going on serves some sort of well-thought out purpose; I, however, see it as being a Crisis-like attempt to simplify Spider-Man’s continuity and shed off some of the baggage. While it might develop and have a payoff, it still seems to me that the first point of BND wasn’t to take Spidey in a new direction or an interesting storyline, it was to find an easy solution to a problem (which is why I would have been just as unhappy with using a Cosmic Cube, Shaper of Worlds, or a Time Platform to solve this mess).

Now, in response to your responses to my questions:

1) You say that Spider-Man will basically end up where he was Post Civil War, but I imagine you mean Pre-Civil War but I could be wrong. If you do mean Post Civil War, do you really believe that they will have Spider-Man be a fugitive who still has the powers from the Others? I find that hard to believe, especially since they are now trying to distance that character from that depiction.

2) How else am I to look at it except as a gimmicky solution? They basically took everything that they have done in Spider-Man, all of the “brave new direction” and the “bold decision to have him unmask” , and had it undone iwith a wave of a/an/the devil’s hand. In fact, in My Cup of Joe, Quesada says that “While, we won't be making any direct references to "The Other," it's still a part of Spidey history, and it remains to be seen how Pete lost those powers.” So instead of answering the problem now, by showing how all of these amazing new powers that have fuelled the last couple of years stories have been lost, we are going to just going to have to wait and look at it as an afterthought? And you wonder why I am cynical towards them?

3) Yes, there was a cosmic storyline and the Others (which I wasn’t a fan of, either). I admit I made my point rather badly here. What I was trying to get at was how you shouldn’t be using something so out of Spider-Man’s milieu as the centerpiece for something that will change his fundamental character. Yes he had Cosmic Powers, but he didn’t use them to save Aunt May from death or to bring back Gwen Stacy. Here is a storyline where he is going against his own motto, “Responsibility”, yet they are using magic, something not associated with Spider-Man normally, as a plot device. Perhaps it is my own personal bias, but if you are going to challenge Spidey’s core beliefs, if you are really going to tempt him to turn away from his most tightly held belief, I want it to be by something that is as close to his world as possible, something that can be viewed as a possible real temptation and not an outside influence that can only be viewed as aberration (“Well I don’t have to worry about this anymore because I am never going to make a deal with a devil again!”).

4) You think it fits the storyline, I feel it goes against his character. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

5) You think it might fit a larger storyline, and it might very well be. But to me it feels forced and out of character. And if I can’t believe that this is something he would do, it undermines my ability to believe in the story.

6) No, I don’t want to see Spidey rot in hell, but my problem is that there will not be a consequence that fits the magnitude of this situation or a payoff equal to the setup. He made a deal with Mephisto, Marvel comic’s version of Satan. This isn’t a metaphoric demon or evil as an abstract concept, this is the real fucking deal, and Spider-Man has willingly entered into a deal with this being. Like I said before, would Spider-Man knowingly make a deal with the Red Skull, and if he did don’t you think such a scenario would change the fundamental nature of Spider-Man’s character? Well, so should dealing with Mephisto, but I seriously doubt Marvel will be willing enough to have Spider-Man be guilty, brooding or punished enough to match the severity of his actions.

My problem with all of this is that, in my opinion, it hurts Spider-Man’s continuity. I know some of you laugh at this, but one of the great strengths of Spider-Man and Marvel has long been the fact that it was a shared Universe, and that history, continuity and plausibility have been the keystones to it. As Peter David said, “A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it.”

In closing I will add that I admit Marvel owes me nothing. Like you I do not read the current ASM, or almost any Marvel Comics for that matter. I followed your advice and took my money elsewhere, and I am not supporting their product. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t mind reading them again if they got good again. If you are a fan of the 49’ers, you might stop watching them now because they suck and you don’t like the direction is going in, but that doesn’t mean you don’t want them to get back on top so you can start following them again.

Oh, and as for your crack about getting off my cross, I don’t see where I ever acted as a martyr or anything other than a fan with an opinion. Have I stated how they have ruined Spider-Man or raped my most cherished memories? No, I have merely expressed a viewpoint, which many share. Plus, I could say you should stop hiding behind the Marvel Flag (“Love the House of Ideas or Leave it”), but I am above such nonsense…

Continentalop
by SpikeTBB
Nov 14th, 2008
09:57:27 AM
You said it more succinctly than I did, but that was what I was trying to get to. The plot device was very weak and lame, but what bothers me more is the implications to Spider Man's character and the end results. The version of the character that emerged from the change was not Spider Man or Pete. I'm even more cynical than you in one respect: I think they did it to make him younger and more high-school like to reel in younger readers. Comics always underestimated the intelligence of its younger fans any way and dumb down the books aimed at them. But I think it is interesting that you picked The Red Skull, of all villains, in you example. There was an issue (Web of Spider Man, I think) where The Red Skull made Spider Man an offer. There was this business deal in Washington Spider Man had been tracking down and it turned out Skull was behind it. Spider Man was being hunted by the Feds at that point and Captain America.Cap had been a real dick to him earlier that day. Pete was in even worse need of money than usual and Skull offered him a brief case full of money to just walk away. So what if the government contracts in the deal went to Skull''s company instead of some other one? Why suffer and turn down money for a government that persecuted and hunted him? Pete actually considered it. Stood there with the money in his hands and agreed with Skull for a panel or two. Then he handed it back and said "No, it's not right. Despite everything its still my country and this is still wrong." Skull's reply was "There must be some aspect to patriotism that breeds stupidity. Kill him" Skull got away but Spider Man's honor stayed intact. (I'm paraphrasing but I know it went down something like that) THAT"S the hero I am lamenting, the continuity I miss. It's not so much Marvel remembering all the details of each issue and a characters history. It's the lack of understanding of that characters core personality, which should be consistent. Sure, you can put them under strain and have them make bad decisions but not violate who they are. No way is Batman going to pick up a machine gun and mow down a school yard full of kids as he tries to shoot Deadshot. The Peter Parker that emerged from making a deal with freaking Mephisto is along the same lines when it comes to character violation. It shows to me that the people responsible don't understand the nature of these characters they have been given temporary stewardship of.
BND? BFD.
by Joenathan
Nov 14th, 2008
02:47:17 PM
Hey

1. Actually I meant Post Civil War. I’d be willing to bet: Aunt May Dead, Superheroes/villains know his identity again, world does not. Other powers gone. Well knows spider powers back. No marriage. Clean, easy, and start over-able. But then, like I said: I have no evidence to base this off and neither do you for your theory.

2. EVERY, let me repeat that, EVERY story line/twist is gimmicky in comics. The covers are gimmicky. The entire medium is based off of the idea that at 22 pages, you wonder: Will Batman escape this time? Will the Riddle cleave him in two with his giant question mark axe? Tune in next month to find out!” Then Batman gets away. EVERY story line is gimmicky. YOU just choose to bitch about this one, because YOU don’t approve. Look, just admit that ALL of your misgivings are based SOLELY in the fact that you disapprove and NOTHING else and we’re good, because at least then you’re being honest. Also, unless you’re brand new to comics, I shouldn’t have to explain to you how malleable and transient ALL comic continuity is. Come on.

3. This story is a lesson/reminder in RESPONSIBILITY. The first time he was taught this was Uncle Ben, the second: Gwen. Both of those were a long time ago. Its time for Spidey to relearn his lesson. And your objection to the raison d’être of this story line, this particular facet of otherworldly craziness that is a regular everyday occurrence in the Marvel verse IS based solely in your personal taste. So you don’t like Devils, that’s fine, but in Spidey’s world it is totally reasonable for him to run into one, ESPECIALLY when he is desperate.

4. I disagree, I feel that I won… but that’s just me…

5. You don’t want to believe it, because you don’t approve. Also, Dormannu, Mephisto, Illyana? Come on, when was the DARK dimension last figured so prominently? Wait a minute… DARK Dimension… DARK Reign… do you think… could it be…. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

6. Well, since you don’t want to see Spider-man rot in hell as punishment, what do you want? Oh, I get it, you just don’t want the story. And that’s fine, but it is first, last and only based in your personal tastes. As its been said before… the two have been in contact previously…

Like I said: Comic continuity is malleable and subject to the whim of the current creative team. You just have to accept that. If you don’t like it… oh well… I’m glad to see you’re voicing your displeasure where it counts though, with your wallet. That’s the only way that will ever count. Continually buying the book you hate and coming here to whine about it is the most fuck stupid thing to do on the planet. So kudos, keep it up, read some old trades, wait a bit and it will eventually come back to a place where you’ll want to read it again. I read X-men for years, since before the Fall of the Mutants, but I finally dropped them the first issue back after Age of apocalypse. Why? Because they sucked ass, they sucked so much I thought I would never return. But eventually… Grant Morrison, Joss Whedon, Warren Ellis and now… I’m back on board.

I’ll wave the Marvel flag until I die.
Continentalop
by steverodgers
Nov 14th, 2008
03:19:30 PM
I think you need to let it all work out. I threw a giant fit when they killed Cap. I was ready to leave work and storm the Marvel office in a fit of comic-fan terrorism. But you know what? I stuck with it because I knew that Bru was writing the shit on the comic and something good might come out of it (and eventually Cap would come back because he's Captain America!). I got rewarded with BuckyCap and his awesome metal arm bashing on AIM agents and the Red Skull's goons all over the place. Slott's a good writer who writes the shit out of Spider-Man so give it some time you just might like it; who knows what surprises he has in store for our favorite wall-crawler? Or you can just hang around and start buying Spider-Man again when it comes back as status-quo. I haven't been happy with everything under Quesada’s watch - but things are way more interconnected now, and good writers and good characters eventually win out in the end- have a little faith. So until Rocket Raccoon stops talking and whomping on evil robot space clowns - make mine Marvel!
ASM
by fanboyspodcast
Nov 14th, 2008
04:09:21 PM
Amazing Spider-Man BLOWS! Fact.
With Exceptions, Comics Are A Guy Thing.
by Buzz Maverik
Nov 16th, 2008
06:04:47 PM
Mrs. Buzz always says that when she calls me in to translate whatever weirdness that Buzz Jr. and Ajax are spouting....
I'll Always Be A Marvel Zombie...
by Buzz Maverik
Nov 16th, 2008
06:06:24 PM
...even when they suck. I think it's like a prison gang. Once you join, they have you for life.
There's a butt sex joke in there some where...
by Joenathan
Nov 17th, 2008
08:52:14 AM
I can feel it...



Oh! ...found it!

by steverodgers
Dec 9th, 2008
09:43:23 PM
tex

by steverodgers
Dec 9th, 2008
09:43:55 PM
fx

by steverodgers
Dec 9th, 2008
09:44:14 PM
jdksjf

by steverodgers
Dec 9th, 2008
09:46:10 PM
bullets
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