Or am i just reading into it too much since I know the story?

This movie is not for them.

The trailer does rock, though.

That's ruined the whole thing for me now...well, that and the new no-squiddy ending.

Strangely, it sounds like he did NOT want the ending the movie currently has, but hints there was nothing he could do about it, that it may have been some mandate from WB: No squid.

"Kind of" embraced? Kind of? Hrrrrrrmmmmmm.....

That's a copout to say it would require an immense amount of explaining.

I've hard a hell of a time convincing Harry Potter stooges that you CAN have two battles at Hogwarts in 2 different films and have them look and feel entirely different, but those blind supporters accept whatever WB feeds them and think it would be too repetitive. They won't accept that a good director can make those sequences different...

Anyway I digress. Kevin, I think you're missing an important aspect of Ozy's plan. It wasn't JUST to end WWIII before it starts or to stop the fighting. It was to UNITE the world through a common enemy, by forcing everyone to recognize their brotherhood.

Killing US and Soviet leaders would only amplify the fear of the other in both countries as they lay blame for the deaths at the others' feet. Same goes for wiping out the nuclear arsenals- the hatred and fear would still exist and both countries would continue developing ways to wipe out the other.

Alien invasion works to stop the war AND bring both sides together. That's why you've got the Burgers and Borscht restaurant in NYC at the end of the novel.

And another example of how close genius and madness are; there's a fine line between them.

And if I remember correctly, I feel like Nite Owl did call him out on it in a small way...

In which case, I still disagree with them. But I believe it makes more sense than thinking Snyder, who's gotten everything we've seen thus far so right, decided to scrap the big climax in favor of a weaker one with more logic holes.

They latch onto things they like and will never agree to things they dislike, no matter how wrong they may be.

wait let me guess: they dont like the potty humor in the reviews here?

I think the movie will be fantastic, I am just extremely disappointed that we won't see an alien as I find that to be a much more satisfying visual and a better climax. Nukes around the world bring up far too many plot/logic holes in my opinion, and it angers me to see the rest of the movie be so right and then here of this being so wrong.

Plus, if NYC is destroyed, we prob won't get that Burgers and Borscht restaurant showing US/USSR unity, or see the newpaper office with the journal at the end, as, the whole city was freakin' nuked!

Then I'll watch the movie everytime it comes on HBO and slowly get around to accepting the new ending and enjoying it, even if it sucks.

And I'd have loved to have seen the squid but I'm open to see how the new ending works. If everything between the group remains the same then I'll be happy. That's the most important bit to me - I don't want any owlarangs or anything. Let the living and dead be the same as the book's conclusion.

Otherwise, it'll be a pretty big logic leap, and definitely hurt the story. Still, I'm looking forward to the movie, if only for the 2+ hours before the ending, b/c it does look like Snyder nailed that much, at least. For some reason, Ozy doesn't bother me, I guess b/c I know Matthew Goode's an awesome actor who will most likely do the character justice, so I don't really give a shit what he looks like.

And, yeah, Ozymandias DOES look a bit too young, but whatever. Maybe it's just that the guy LOOKS young. Ozy did keep himself in good health and physical condition.

I'll probably go the way of D. Vader and love "every minute of the film up until the climax, at which point I get really pissed off and leave feeling very disappointed. Then I'll watch the movie everytime it comes on HBO and slowly get around to accepting the new ending and enjoying it, even if it sucks."

Long live (ø‹›≈≈ !

Utterly disappointed by the posters, besides the Comedian one.

Hopefully I am proved very wrong, but get the feeling, Zack is more worried about being artisitc than telling a greeat story, full of interesting characters.

Might as well just have a galactus type cloud show up too.

The only person with superpowers is that blue geezer.

Some other geezer can run up walls

The smartest man in the universe has a plan to unite the world and stop war that involves a giant piece of calamari.

Said piece of calamari has been removed for being daft

It's been replaced with something else that you don't like.

Bruce Campbell is not in it.

ZAck Snyder is your god

is that everything?

Such a missed opportunity.

Ghostball has no sense of humour and pees himself when he talks to women

Most of the world neither knows nor cares about Watchmen

Said Blue Guy is naked with big swinging balls and you are all inexplicably pleased about this

World's smartest man can catch bullets but isn't super powered?

There's a fat guy that can only get it up (even with that chick) when he's got his costume on.

They've deliberately put nipples on costumes, and you're inexplicably happy about this

Reading Talkbacks full of fanatical weirdos is probably not the best place to get information from.

P.S. Mystery Men looked much better than this.

I know I wouldn't want to be a fat inadaquete with the power of impotence.

I seriously think that if they were going to alter it, they should have brought William H. Macy's Shoveler character over to this film. Honestly, he would be 3 times as compelling as Rorshach.Imagine it.

And I shall torment you in the most narrow minded and trollish fashion until this film sinks below the water leaving only the traces of shattered fanboy dreams gently floating on the surface.

Hello, warciples!

And since I'm here and don't feel like skipping around, let me just comment that Pine's head on the new Trek poster is WAY huge, and the angle is physically impossible for a human to achieve. He's looking down with his face, with his eyes turned up in one of those glamour-boy poses, yet the size of that huge cranium suggests it was a nearly complete overhead shot, which of course it couldn't be, not with the face the way it is. What I'm saying is, it sucks. The Quinto Spock poster is okay. He actually looks like Spock and the shot is full-front. But that Pine poster is for wiping butts when the toilet paper runs out.

At the moment I feel it isn't.

Then, the other guys that aren't superpowered are nearly superpowered?

How do you catch a bullet without superpowers.

This contradiction bothers none of you?

Calamari is very tasty but not belonging in a watchmen film

I've seen the picture and the lardass with the power of impotence isn't even a fatty

There are nipples. Rubber ones, not the fun baby feeding ones.

The main Villain looks like a bit, well, gay.

Mystery men is better than this will be.

And which guy is the villain anyway? Its not the Chris O'Donnell looking guy in Robin suit is it?

Marinara or Horseradish sauce?

Discuss.

I'm completely lost now.

At least there's no naked blue guy with big swinging balls and an intergalactic appetizer in Archie.

Watchmen is arguably the most important comic book ever, and the only one that transcends it's medium

It has a naked blue guy with big swinging balls in it.

It has lots of other guys, that aren't superheroes but can do superhero things such as run up walls and catch bullets.

It has calamari saving the world

It has a fat guy with the power of impotence that makes shit for the other guys

The Bruce Campbell guy is a rapist that then tries to shag his own daughter, and inexplicably we're meant to give a fuck that someone murdered him.

The fat guy gets over the power of impotence by putting his costume on.

The masked guy is a nazi and we're meant to give a fuck about him.

The nazi guy has magic cloth that moves around on his mask.

Snyder has adapted all this shit fairly literally, except for being squidiphobic.

There are inappropriate nipples.

Joel Schumacher is a cunt. We all know this, yet one guy has been made to look like a gay love item in a piss poor joke that takes the piss out of schumacher that will zip straight over the heads of the audience.

The mainstream neither knows nor cares about this

Dark Knight Returns and Preacher are better

Mystery Men is also better.

Have I covered everything that we learn't in class today?

http://tinyurl.com/5zzakc

I may start a campaign: FREE HULK'S PIECE. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR GREEN COCK.

You shouldn't repeat that as if its fact.

Try reading Watchmen. I know it's a radical fucking concept but rest assured after you do you won't make the pitifull error of confusing Watchmen with Mystery Men. Watchmens status as one of the greatest comics is absolutely safe. No amount of whining, out of context feeble attempts to take the piss will affect it's status WHATSOEVER.

Even if the Movie turned into a shitfest (unlikely since no-one who has seen the significant portions of it in the secret screenings so far has said it was a shitfest, quite the opposite) anyway EVEN if the Movie was a shitfest the comic remains the same.

If only it was more realistic like that Movie about the Guy who dresses up like a BAT to fight a dude in makeup. (We all know how terrible the Box Office for THAT was.) SERIOUSLY ? Who wants to watch such ludicrous nonsense about Bat fetishising vigilantes with technologically implausable gizmos and mutilated makeup crazies ?

Yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

"It has a naked blue guy with big swinging balls in it." Mahatten first manifests himselfnaked as he reconstrcuts his body not his clothes. And his GRADUAL loss of clothing reflects his increasing isolation from scoiety and it's customs. It's a plot point. Besides you would be happier if he DIDN'T have balls ? What ? An anatomically "politically correct bump" ?

"It has lots of other guys, that aren't superheroes but can do superhero things such as run up walls and catch bullets." Like Batman you mean ? And the bullet catch is signposted as ludicrous deliberatley. It is after all the most common defect of all "superhero" films. The terrible fucking shooting of the "bad guys" and the invulnerabliliity of the "good guys to bullets.

"It has calamari saving the world." SPOILER** It destroys half of New York and is never given a name as it is meant to be lovecraftian horror (others have christened it squiddy etc. it's name is irrelevant) and it is CREATED just as the hugely improbable alien trheats created for Superman and all the other Superheroes are created. The Difference is Watchmen TELLS you it is created.

"It has a fat guy with the power of impotence that makes shit for the other guys" Nope. It has a Hero who used technology and his past phyicall fighting skill to fight crime.. like.. (work it out) And his impotence is a reflection of his having to give UP being a Hero. He regains his self respect when he returns to his "calling".

"The Bruce Campbell guy is a rapist that then tries to shag his own daughter, and inexplicably we're meant to give a fuck that someone murdered him." Nope. He never tries to fuck his own daughter. He KNOWS it's his own duaghter. And the FIRST time was attempted rape but not afterwards. And yet again it's a CRUCIAL plot point that NOBODY really gives a fuck he's died APART from Rorschach.

"The masked guy is a nazi and we're meant to give a fuck about him." He doesn't wear jackboots, and a fucking swasticka and he STARTED as grim but human he tries to save a child from a kidnap when no-one else gives a fuck about her. But the years in the criminal underworld took their toll and he develops a Zero tolerance for criminals as well as a ludicrously black and white outlook on life. Yet he is implacable and a force of pure will who will never compromise on what he thinks is right or wrong. The genius is we DO give a fuck about him despite his manifest crazyness and problems.

"The nazi guy has magic cloth that moves around on his mask." Nope. Nothing to do with "magic". The technology is an offshoot of Manhattensresearches and is not only explained but is another CRUCIAL plot point.

"There are inappropriate nipples. Joel Schumacher is a cunt. We all know this" We do indeed and some of said Ozy was a serious mistake when we first saw him months ago. How badly he will affect the Movie remains to be seen.

"The mainstream neither knows nor cares about this" Well those who went to see The Dark Knight know about it since it was the trailer and correct me if I'm wrong but that's quite a few fucking people. As to caring about it.. we'll see but the sales of the Comic have rocketed so it's clearly untrue to say there is no intrest.

Dark Knight Returns and Preacher are better. Nope Dark Knight Returns is VERY good but better ? not in my book and since it's obviously a matter of opinion hardly something that can be stated as fact TBH (Preachers pretty good (but again IMO) not in the same league as Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns or even Kingdom Come.

"Mystery Men is also better." Though it's opinion it's sooooooo far off the mark as to be dismissed with a laugh frankly.

"Have I covered everything that we learn't in class today?" You tell me, HAVE I ?

I won't bother trying to recount the details of Watchmen, or even trying to defend the "pointless" (or not) squid that plops onto NYC at the end. But I will say in order to best understand the whole (pointless?) debate, the best thing you can do is scare up a copy and read it. or at least skip to the end and gaze upon the giant vaginal calamari monster. At least pick it up in a bookstore, stand around and read a few pages and if you aren't compelled to read on, then flip to the end to see the squid.

Otherwise it's like me trying to debate the origins of the "aliens" in They Live or how it is that humans just don't see the real words behind the subliminal messages when I've never even seen the movie to begin with.

Chang ho, bros! Finky

Hmph. Say sorry.

Well let me tell you something Zack, we - Oh *observes mirror*. Sorry - right you are. Carry on.

I already said WHY the bullet catching thing was included. It's clearly preposterous BUT this is supposedly the smartest guy on the planet honed to the peak of physical perfection (which is WHY he shouldn't look like a fey gothic gimp Snyder you fucking idiot. He's supposed to be Charles Atlas, a Doc Savage style self made man) THE most ridiculous thing about Heroes and Superheroes is their seeming indifference to guns and bullets. Even with Batman's tri-weave topsheet (keeps you fresh, safe AND active even on your heaviest flow days) Ahem.. "Armour" exactly what the fuck is to stop anyone shooting Batman in the face ? Particularly with a shotgun, say ?

Moore tackles it head on and acknowledges how ridiculous it is but at the same time imbues Ozy with enough of the same type of backstory of rigorous training in "mysterious" Martial and fighting arts that all these Heroes get so it's the same trope taken to it's ultimate conclusion.

NiteOwl is all about Dual identity and which is the stronger and which is the "true" identity. Driberg is in Rorschachs words is a "flabby failure" BUT Rorschach seeks him out because he knows NiteOwl is still in there somewhere and he does reappear after the rescue and in the prison breakout. So Rorschach is proved right and both NiteOwl and Silk Spectre are forced to admit that, like it or not, the costumed hero part of their lives and persona can't simply be discarded without consequences to their "normal" lives. They are both "incomplete" without them.

Manhattan DOES wear a costume. To begin with it's full body, then it becomes shorter then it becomes underwear THEN he simply doesn't care how he looks after he "rejects" the last of his "humanity".

And reread my post Jarv. You must know I was complimenting you on attacking the NeoCon idiots not calling you one, so presumably this is some double bluff piece of satire on your part. In which case, well done. ;-)

BTW Where exactly is the part where Rorschach "runs up a wall" ??? The only thing that comes close is he vaults up onto a climbing frame and that isn't quite the same as running up a wall ? He never looks like spiderman. Besides which, we SEE that Rorscach is definitely NOT a Matrix style "hero" when he jumps out that window. BELIEVE ME that doesn't end well for him.

Though it must also be remembered Rorschach IS physically formidable. Not due to any super regimine of mystical training or healthy diet (bean shlomping and sugar cubes are not exactly the Ozy fitness plan) Rorschach is formidable because he has been doing tt for years almost non-stop. He never quit and he doesn't take a holiday or a break and he doesn't HAVE any other life. Being Rorschach is almost all he ever does. More than any of the other "Heroes" he "fights crime" constantly. He simply cannot take the Mask off. He IS Rorschach.

Now I'm not saying anyone NEEDS to like Watchmen, because they obviously don't. But comparing it to Mystery Men is a joke. It's not even close. Christ even the Tick would be a closer parallel. It also has a MASSIVE Blue impervious superhero a Batman "style" Hero a fighting hot chick and, well there IS a mothman in both.

But the Tick is pure satire and Parody and so is Mystery Men. Watchmen isn't. It's far more complex and clever. It does indeed take some satirical swipes at the Superhero and Superteam stories, style and ideas but it's more than smart enough to do so without ever becoming pure farce or parody or just played for laughs.

The accepted version at the moment is that they've deliberately made the "world's smartest man" who is in perfect physical condition into a "fey gothic gimp" (I like that), to paradoy/ satirise Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin.

If this is the case, and I accept that Watchmen is a deconstruction of the superhero mythos, yada yada yada, then why on earth are they choosing to parody a film that came out over 10 years ago and was accepted as being an abortive fag-fest at the time? Watchmen as deconstruction was relevant when it was written, this is not.

It doesn't make any sense at all, and strikes me as being, well, stupid and inappropriate.

And what's wrong with giant blue junk?

Giant blue junk, while in the comic, is a non essential detail that Snyder is keeping for no apparent reason.

The Calamari has a vagina.

The Calamari is called squiddy.

The calamari is in itself not essential. However, some kind of alien threat is.

It would be fine to change the vagina faced calamari to a.n.other alien, but not to what has been chosen.

Ozymandis looks like an inflatable fuck toy and you're not happy about it.

Even though Rorschach can run up a wall, and Ozy can catch bullets, this is acceptable for a normal human because it is a deconstruction and shows the absurdity of comics as a medium.

Having said that, Rorschach running up a wall is still Snyder being a style addicted wanker.

300 sucks ass.

You're not all that enthusiastic and are actually puckering the nearer it gets to release.

Or is there really new footage on YouTube of all places? Where? What do you need to type to find it?

http://tinyurl.com/6s56as

"I don't know if Snyder can pull this off...."

"I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT FOR THIS!!"

Its that sort of blind dedication the studios are banking on. What do they give a fuck about the quality of a film if the douche bags will put their asses in seats regardless?

And that whole notion that the Ozy's costume is meant to say something about comic films....BLA BLA BLA....fuck off with that bullshit. Nobody is fucking thinking like that. It was simply a design choice and you fuckers can't accept that Snyder's costume sensibilities are no different than Joel Schumacher. I personally have no problem with this-- I thought Robin's suit was great. But don't sit here pretending like Watchmen is something its not. It is not sitting on this higher plane of existence than all other comic films. Give me a fucking break.

Rest of the world would be pissed at us for "making him" and would fear we'd make another. It'd be just another arms race.

The squid was a comic book convention. That a solitary threat unites all mankind. But the real world requires a different motivation. It requires a personal - this is affecting me, motivation. It requires nukes, or some other event to happen in my country, my city, not just someplace half-way around the globe. And especially not a country quasi or fully inimical to mine.

Would Israel support Iran if a giant squid wiped out Tehran?

I have zero problem with the change - outside of framing Mahnattan, who is supposed to know about that type of stuff. I know the the 'tachyons' prevent him somehow, but still, given his abilities, I would think he would have known something was up. It will be interesting to see. As far as destroying global economy, chaos breeds opportunity. If Ozy is as smart as he says, he will only target cities whose loss economic output can be absorbed by a global community. Remember, as bad as katrina was, and we almost lost an entire American city, and countless lives, America would have been able to absorb the impact.

Moore will do one, he's proper atheist.

That's just silly, and impossible to explain without a whole lot of exposition

In the funny book, which is a deconstruction of steroetypes in comic books, Vaginacalimari flattens new york. Right?

Flattening New York or A.N. American city is totally a superhero convention- to flatten new york with a giant vagina appetiser is therefore silly and makes the convention look silly.

To change this to naked blue big swinging balls crushing the world misses all this.

Especially when you're trying so hard to get all the minor points, and dressed your villain as a gay sex toy to make one of them.

Snyder is a cunt.

I think it has to have tentacles to be Lovecraftian. But I'm not sure.

Without a doubt singular events can unite a vast majority of the planet in outrage or sympathy - 9/11 is a prime example. But, it also serves as an example of how quickly that sympathy can be lost. True, Bush squandered that sympathy. But, unless you have a clear and constant threat to use that empathty/sympathy against, it will evaporate. The squid was a singular event, which I grant you would be jarring (but would look silly in the movie), but it was only one monster, in one city. And eventually, the shock would wear off. There would be no constant enemy to be attacked. It would be an event taking place halfway around the globe. People would become inured to it, and once that happened, they would become complacent.

The only way to keep that heightened sense of planet wide peril alive, is to have it personally affect people worldwide.

To be honest, I'm not a great fan of ROTK, but I think it would have been immeasurably improved by moving Shelob out of it- and shortening the climb in the 2 Towers.

Less of the tedious hobbit on hobbit action and more of the good stuff. Not to mention the fact that Jackson shortened a lot of ROTK to accomodate this switch.

I just think it would have been a much better balance.

The main narrative thrust is Aragorn on one side and Frodo on the other. The narrative climaxes should feature these 2 characters.

Problem solved.

Jesus, I'm not even that much of a fan of the books, and I'm doing this. I have a rule with it- every time you see poetry: turn the page. It's much less painful if you do this.

you learn a new thing every day.

erm. Whoops. Never mind. Carry on

*Strolls away whistling*

I just think the Doc as the blame has too many holes.

Here is another: " Like other sea creatures, Godzilla requires gills to breathe (though, like an amphibian, he seems also to have lungs and thus can survive on land as well). "

I think he hates being called a lizard more than being called an amphibian.

that's called drowning. And I seem to remember something about amphibians dissolving in salt water.

Moving swiftly on.

He does not look like a frog.

Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.

Kong

Xenomorphs

The thing that Robert Englund turns into in Jack Brooks (apologies if you've not seen it, but that isn't really a spoiler),

The squid in 20,000 leagues under the ocean (the good one with James Mason. Fuck you all, I like it).

Galactus

I'll think of some more in a moment.

Cthulu (only kidding. I know he's dickensian as a result of being raised in a Victorian London Orphanage)

Predator

Predalien

Alan Moore's beard (Have you seen the fucker? it's got planet death written all over it)

THE BATES (ditto)

That'll do.

That seems to be the gist of it.

SQUIDS EVERYWHERE.

I now hearby wish Snyder would reveal MUTLIPLE SQUIDS in "Watchmen" set to an organ-driven Toccata and Fugue. That'd be balls.

Fucker's more cracked than a fat person's toilet seat.

And now I'm really off.

http://tinyurl.com/5sbcg2

Surprisingly enough, I've got that threat more then a few times around here, including one by a former reviewer. Jarv was threatened by this same person.

Prince Caspian handled the trees much much better. I always thought the Ent attack should be more like what they were able to do there. Make it fast, violent, and showcase their size and might. We should have seen the bulk of the Ents attacks from the Orc perspective, looking up at their massive size from the ground. Instead we get these huge wide shots where the CG Orcs running around look like shit, the scale of the Orcs isn't impactful, and the flood scene showcases poorly detailed miniature work.

Add to this. The framing of Doc M by Ozy, and the psychic compulsion, and you get a plausible scenario.

I am not saying it is full proof. Nor, was it the right thing to do to the movie. I am saying it is far, far better than a squid.

Did the world hold Saudi Arabia accountable for 9/11 even though Bin Laden is a Saudi? Even though most of the terrorists were Saudis?

No.

If NYC - America's undisputed greatest city, were destroyed, along with other major cities around the world, most of which would be our allies to boot, do you really think the world would believe that America was responsbile? Oh, sure some would. But consider my question about Mecca and Medina. NYC aint holy, but in the fabric of importance, the world knows how much it means to the United States. And consider my Bin Laden analogy. DocM is an American, has fought for America. But even Americans are frightened by his power.