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Moriarty @ AFI Fest: Aronofsky’s THE WRESTLER!

best Aaronofsky ever? really? by Jonah Echo	Nov 7th, 2008 07:02:44 AM
I think Pi and Requiem are both great films, and I adore the Fountain. The fact that you found this to be a better film than those is exciting. When's it getting released?
Look forward to seeing this. by ChezKing	Nov 7th, 2008 07:03:32 AM

I've still no idea by kwisatzhaderach	Nov 7th, 2008 07:07:29 AM
what is happening in The Fountain. The Wrestler looks terrific though, looking forward to it.
The Fountain theory... by I_am_not_the_droid_you_are_looki ng_for	Nov 7th, 2008 07:40:59 AM
Read a theory on the fountain which made sense. I saw it at a test screening (prior to reading the theory) and it left me baffled. In a nutshell, the theory goes... The modern day section of the film is the only "real" part of the film. The Conquistador section is the book Weisz is writing, and the bubble in space section is the ending to the book that Jackman wrote after the wife died. I haven't seen it since the test screening and subsequently reading the theory. I will have to one day. Maybe it does make sense. It's one of those films that I really wanted to LOVE, because Aronofsky is genius and Requiem is the film I'll show my future kids just before they hit the "experimenting" age to scare the living fuck out of them, but it left me dazed and confused. But Aronofsky swung for the fences on that one, and even if it didn't quite work, I'd rather watch something as original as that, than all the Remake/Reboot/Sequel crap that’s coming out of Hollywood these days. (Yes, I'm aware Aronofsky is doing RoboCop, and i did die a little inside when I found out. Solitary tear rolls down cheek) As for The Wrestler. Can... Not... Wait!
saw this movie at the Ghent festival by Windowlicker74	Nov 7th, 2008 07:42:43 AM
and it was definately Darrens best movie to date
Regarding the Fountain theory.. by Jonah Echo	Nov 7th, 2008 08:01:56 AM
I suppose it's open to interpretation several different ways, but my take is similar to that one, droid. The only difference is that I think the ending Tommy writes is the one that concludes with the conquistador going to the tree and eating of it. The bubble space, Howie Mandel sequence is, I think, not a complete fiction, but rather a representation of the mind-space of Tommy after Izzy's death. It's the journey he has to undertake to even be capable of writing that ending that he gives Izzy's book. It's the visualization of his grief, his hope in science, and his slow acceptance to death and the beyond. It was daring of Aronofsky to portray it that way, but for my money, it's the best explanation of the film I can come up with. The bubble scene happens in the same "time-space" as the modern bit, but it isn't literally real in the same way that we think of that other section, but more real than Izzy's novel.
Jonah... by I_am_not_the_droid_you_are_looki ng_for	Nov 7th, 2008 08:40:35 AM
Yes, that makes sense as well. Nice one. I think I'm going to have to go back and watch it again. I give him credit, Aranofsky has presented us with a challenging film. Cheers.
Mori! by brassai2003	Nov 7th, 2008 08:50:01 AM
hey dude. what's the release date on this and when are we going to get a fucking trailer already????
you forgot by brassai2003	Nov 7th, 2008 08:51:35 AM
the very underrated Year of the Dragon. One of my favorite films. srsly.
Aronofsky & Robocop by palewook	Nov 7th, 2008 08:59:50 AM
not 100% happy he's doing the robo remake. perhaps he can do it justice. i did think the fountain was underrated. and PI is a gem.
Well I Always Thought... by maliswan	Nov 7th, 2008 09:24:09 AM
...that Aronofsky was a piece of shit but what a fine mind he has.
Darren Aronofsky’s best movie, easily... by Roland_The_Gunslinger	Nov 7th, 2008 09:39:38 AM
...Not really a hard task that, is it?
The present and future parts of The Fountain are real. by Cameron1	Nov 7th, 2008 09:46:10 AM
The the space bubble part is Tommy (part immortal through eating from the tree) taking the tree that has grown up around Weisz's body (which contained the life giving essence they created discovered) the nebular to recharge it. I'd say the conqustador part is real as well the idea of reincarnation being prevalent throughout.
The Fountian is not confusing by Lovecraftfan	Nov 7th, 2008 09:47:29 AM
The middle section is real. The first section is a book and the last section is Jackman writing the book having been inspired by some of Izzy's words about the cosmos. Its really just a simple sweet story of a man dealing with his wife dying. Its not that hard.
You forgot the Springsteen song by Garbageman33	Nov 7th, 2008 09:52:38 AM
Perfect ending to a perfect movie.
Garbageman by Lazerspewpewpew	Nov 7th, 2008 09:55:21 AM
Do you actually read the fuckin reviews?
Aronofsky's best? Not tough to do. by rev_skarekroe	Nov 7th, 2008 09:56:29 AM
Requiem For A Dream was silly and The Fountain was like the film equivalent of hanging out at a New Age bookstore. Pi was cool, but very derivative of Tetsuo The Iron Man.
Where can I see a trailer for this? by The Reluctant Austinite	Nov 7th, 2008 09:58:00 AM
I'm dying to see this based on the advance buzz, but I've looked all over the internet and can't seem to find a trailer. I would think they would have at least cut a trailer by now unless they're completely stumped at how to market this film.
The DEFINITIVE Fountain plot by Lenny8	Nov 7th, 2008 10:03:07 AM
The story is about reincarnation. People who don't get that miss the whole point. The Jackman character is featured in three of his reincarnated lifetimes, each time trying to "beat" death. Only in the end, when he succumbs to its inevitability, does he find peace. Death,after all, is the Road to Awe. It's based on Vedantic Hinduism, Buddhism, even a little Course in Miracles. It's amazingly simple. But it relies on understanding that all THREE lives are "real" and that it is the same character reincarnated three times.
Mori - did you notice... by BGDAWES	Nov 7th, 2008 10:12:42 AM
that although this was unlike any of Darren Aronofsky's other films there were still a few of his 'trademarks' visible? Great point about Anderson by the way, and you're right this was a radical departure from Aronofsky's usual stuff but a couple of things stood out that he is known for: 1. Repetition: did you notice how many steadi-cam tracking shots there were of Rourke, following him from behind? I can't figure out why Aronofsky kept using this shot. Maybe to show that he fights other battles outside of the ring in his every day life? 2. The overall melancholy tone of the film: the day Aronofsky does a slapstick comedy (or for Anderson, a horror film - to use your example) is the day he makes a radical change from his themes. Outstanding review by the way and I complete agree. It really is that good. Looking forward to seeing Synecdoche, New York next; hopefully this Sunday.
See, Lenny 8 I was with that interpretation originally... by Cameron1	Nov 7th, 2008 10:16:37 AM
but there are a few clues that Tommy is the same person in the present and future sequences. I'll watch it again tonight and come back with the little things that led me to believe it was a little different from your theory on it.
Is it just me or is Marisa Tomei... by Mr. Nice Gaius	Nov 7th, 2008 10:26:13 AM
...hotter now than she has ever been? My goodness. Thanks for the review Moriarty. I'd like to check this one out soon. And great comments on Rourke; interesting guy and career.
Whoops, I missed the Springsteen part by Garbageman33	Nov 7th, 2008 10:45:13 AM
Sorry. And thanks for the profanity. Much appreciated.
BGDAWES by thatpeterguy	Nov 7th, 2008 10:46:05 AM
I saw the film at TIFF and Aronofsky mentioned that because people are so pre-occupied with Roarke's face that he wanted to hold off on showing his face until the last possible second. That's why the opening begins with us following him from behind as he goes about his life. Great idea by Aronofsky and another example of how he is one of the best of using the camera to help the plot and tone of his films. Music video directors should take a page out of his book. It isn't about getting a cool shot it's about getting the most effective shot to evoke the desired emotion from the viewer.
Thanks for the post thatpeterguy! by BGDAWES	Nov 7th, 2008 10:51:16 AM
That really makes sense and resonates really well now that I think about it. Holy shit, can you believe what just happened here? Two talkbackers just had a legitimate discussion about film! I better bring us back down now: ass-hats gotta eat! shit dicknose fuckknob nuked the fridge then drinks a beer and cheets on his wife (etc.)
Mickey Rourke was a God to me as a teen by Powers Boothe	Nov 7th, 2008 10:56:20 AM
Can we stop yapping about that awful Fountain movie and show Mr Rourke some love? I lost count of how many times my freinds and I would watch Rumble Fish, Year Of The Dragon and Angel Heart on videotape during the 80s. He also did a terrific (and hugely underrated) late 80s Walter Hill genre picture titled Johnny Handsome.
The Fountain by Powers Boothe	Nov 7th, 2008 11:03:13 AM
Perhaps I should have enjoyed it more in a movie theatre. Watched it in HD on HBO and thought it was an utter mess. Is there a Fountain Director's Cut coming...'cause whenever I watch an 'important' film that has a 90 minute running time that it always makes me think I'm watching a post-test screening version.
typo! by Powers Boothe	Nov 7th, 2008 11:05:05 AM
That first sentence should have said "Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more if I watched it at a movie theatre"
Wrestler by Cobbio	Nov 7th, 2008 11:37:28 AM
Thanks for the review, Mori. I'm glad as hell to hear the film resonates so well. I'm happy Aronofsky cast Rourke in such an iconically human role. And Marisa Tomei too? Can't wait to see this.
Maryse Alberti is a woman by CaptainEverything	Nov 7th, 2008 12:12:19 PM
And she does fantastic work. I couldn't agree with Moriarty more -- The Wrestler is a tremendous movie. I'm seeing it at the DGA again this weekend.
I met Arronfsky once... by Grendy	Nov 7th, 2008 12:50:10 PM
He was at a sneak of a screening in Atlanta. After the Q & A's were over, I went to meet him, talk a bit. In the conversation, I mentioned that Requiem is the only film I've ever purchased sight-unseen. He was curious as to why. I told him so many people had advised about how good it is, that I did it. So, of course, he asked what I thought of it. I said "It was so damn depressing that I've seen it once, and it sits on my shelf now." He laughed at that, and understood. Very gracious about it all. I am very interested in this film, and will see it in theatres, to help with the money aspect so he (and the others in the film) can continue to make quality stuff for years to come.
I want to see this fucking movie NOW!!! by Pissed Off And Bitter	Nov 7th, 2008 12:55:33 PM
Every review has said it is a great film. I used to be an avid wrestling fan a few years ago and have even watched the Beyond the Mat documentary. This movie sounds like it's almost a semi-biography of Jake "The Snake" Roberts. Is this best movie of the year so far?
The Fountain by SpawnofAchilles	Nov 7th, 2008 01:03:20 PM
one of my favorite movies easily, I love it and watch it often. I believe Darren has said that the bubble section of the film is actually the present. The modern day part are memory flashback from the bubble and the conquistador bits are from the book (and maybe having to do with reincarnation)
Necro Butcher being praised! by Deathpool	Nov 7th, 2008 01:20:27 PM
The world is coming to an end! I'm glad to see him getting some screen time, I've heard he's a good guy. As a wrestling dork, I'm interested to see this movie, though it being actually fantastic certainly doesn't hurt either.
heaven forbid... by Dr.DirtyD	Nov 7th, 2008 01:55:44 PM
...someone has a distinct style. Hitchcock films look like Hitchcock. Capra looks like Capra. Welles always looks like Welles. Chaplin, Fritz Lange etc. They all use various techniques and designs that repeat through out their repetition. It's fine for a director to question and change up his/her style. Just leave a director alone, if they've found something that works for them and tells their stories in the best possible formats. Enough with this aesthetics backlash.
reactionary aesthetics... by Dr.DirtyD	Nov 7th, 2008 02:01:09 PM
Simply saying "i shall throw out all style" seems to be only a cheap and lazy method of developing a new one.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this. by TJ Donkey Show	Nov 7th, 2008 02:13:30 PM
I'm currently reading Bret Hart's autobiography and it's fascinating. Bret is very honest about the wrestling life style. How it's a brotherhood, that comes with fame, fortune, and a real sense of satisfaction by putting on a great show for the fans. However, the down side is huge. Most of these guys end up as bitter drug addicts, broke, and with their bodies wrecked. A good chunk of them die young. From what I've read this movie takes the same no bullshit point of view as Bret's book and that can only be a good thing.
Couldn't be more excited for this by kungfuhustler84	Nov 7th, 2008 02:16:18 PM
Probably my most aniticipated movie this year after The Good the Bad the Weird.
Yeah how dare you Mori by kungfuhustler84	Nov 7th, 2008 03:20:24 PM
enjoying a movie like that! Pfft.
Gabe Sapolsky FTL~!!!! by Super Rabbi	Nov 7th, 2008 03:33:19 PM
ROH ROH ROH
Black Crippler by Garbageman33	Nov 7th, 2008 03:54:41 PM
It seems like you really missed the point of that final speech. The reason he doesn't give the rousing Macho Man speech is because that part of his life is over. And he knows it. For the first time, he's addressing his fans as himself. Not his persona.
People comparing Fountain to 2001. by Amy Chasing	Nov 7th, 2008 04:20:30 PM
Aranofsky's not Kubrick. But it's a closer fit than comparing Boyle's Sunshine to 2001. Fountain is arguably the superior work.
The Fountain plot by Plathismo	Nov 7th, 2008 04:50:48 PM
I'm a subscriber to the idea that only the present portion is "real." The conquistador section is Izzy's book, and the spacecraft section is an allegorical extension of the story, suggested by Izzy. It's how Tom "finishes it." All three plotlines essentially tell the same story, but in different ways. I think the idea that the space section should be taken literally, even if Aronofsky intended it that way, is, well, a bit silly. Plus if you watch the last shot of the film, Xibalba appears to go supernova while Present Tom is watching it (which of course implies that it actually went nova 500 years earlier), so it couldn't go nova again 500 years later, which calls the literal reality of that space section into further question.
Boyle's Sunshine COULD have been comparable to 2001... by rev_skarekroe	Nov 7th, 2008 05:16:47 PM
...but then they went and threw in a supervillain at the end. WTF?
Can't wait to see it by m_reporter	Nov 7th, 2008 07:22:29 PM
Pi was good, Requiem was great, I kinda like The Fountain although it was a great disappointment. I'm really pumped by all the positive buzz this film is creating... Need to hunt down a preview screening SOMEHOW!!!
The First Great Aronofsky Film? by chaplinatemyshoe	Nov 7th, 2008 07:31:34 PM
Pi was good for a first outing. Requiem felt brilliant when I was in high school but subsequently feels heavy handed. I still give it major ups for its creativity, but the story is kind of meh. The Fountain, I flat out hated. Hated the way it was shot and lit. Hated the obviousness of its themes despite it's attempt to veil itself in vagueness and ambiguity. In many ways, I hated The Fountain for the same reasons I hate Thomas Kincaid paintings. But I'm hoping The Wrestler marries the style he's been developing with character development. And it sounds like it has. Araonofsky appears to be growing up...
looking forward to this by the milf lover	Nov 7th, 2008 07:44:17 PM
I've been a big wrestling fan for over 20 years, so I'm very interested to see it! Rourke is great (he was Harley Davidson and Marv!), Tomei as a stripper mmmmmmmm... and some real wrestlers too? I'm sold! Just gimme a release date already! Necro Butcher is one insane motherfucker, go look for some of his ultraviolent hardcore matches if you dare. I've heard an interview with him, and he sounds so nice and laidback, not what is expected when you see him getting stabbed with barbed wire and neon lighttubes!
The Fountain by Toonol	Nov 7th, 2008 09:49:12 PM
Was great. The only movie I ever watched over again the moment it was over. The conquistador story was, I think, purely fiction, his wife's story. The present day segment was real; the future I'm not sure about, but lean towards it being Tom's way of ending of the story. Perhaps it's a representation of his emotional journey, showing his 'headspace'. I don't think reincarnation particularly plays a part.
The Fountain and Requiem. by Monkey Butler	Nov 7th, 2008 10:06:35 PM
The way I see the Fountain is that it's three separate stories artificially blended into one to create a metaphor for the acceptance of death. Case in point - we see in the film the Izzie taking a seed-pod from the Tree of Life in the Conquistador storyline and giving it to Dr Tom in the "present" storyline. This makes absolutely zero literal sense, but if you take it as a metaphorical intersection, in which all three storylines reach their conclusions by the Tom character understanding the nature of death, it fits fine. I think you need to look at the film in a more "meta" way - the three storylines are basically about the quest to overcome death and the ultimate resolution that death is not something that needs to be overcome, because death is not the end and love conquers all yada yada yada. I actually think the themes of the film itself are kinda trite, but it's made so damn well, considering the corners that had to be cut because of the shoestring budget, that I admire it for that at the very least. I guess it's the same way I feel about Requiem - it's constructed so brilliantly that the shortcomings of the script kinda take a back seat.
ennui by ennui	Nov 7th, 2008 10:12:48 PM
This sounds fantastic. Angel Heart was one of those movies we just had to find a way to see when we were 13 years old and Mickey just embodied a worldly cool that we all aspired to. Now that I am a semi broken down father of 2, it will be great to see old Mick out fighting the good fight against what life does to us.
God I am a dumb ass by ennui	Nov 7th, 2008 10:13:34 PM
I confused logging in with a title, either that or I am just talking to myself again.
ahh man the ending is so fucking moving by TheDark0Knight	Nov 7th, 2008 10:49:51 PM
I saw this back at the premier in Toronto and was blown away...I agree 100% with everything you said. I truly think it has one of the best endings/final shots of any movie Ive seen.
I agree with Mori not Black Crippler...Black Crippler you sound by TheDark0Knight	Nov 7th, 2008 10:55:32 PM

by TheDark0Knight	Nov 7th, 2008 10:55:59 PM
like a douche bag
What we need is a decent DVD of The Fountain... by Kirbymanly	Nov 8th, 2008 12:03:37 AM
The one that was put out looks a rush-job, piece of shit transfer.
Yes, BlackCrippler is a douche bag. by Mr. Nice Gaius	Nov 8th, 2008 12:18:16 AM
But that's what we expect from BraneRobot / AnimalStructure / ThunderBalls = AICN's least favorite subhuman Mori stalker.
It won Venice... by mastidon	Nov 8th, 2008 03:25:45 AM
This is the one film I'm sorry I missed there by not attending this year. I saw Mickey being interviewed on Graham Norton last week and it the film does look amazing.
Well... by TheRealMoriarty	Nov 8th, 2008 03:51:43 AM
... everyone's entitled to their read. I think this is the opposite of something like MILLION DOLLAR BABY, where the fights and the outside the ring life were both written at such a blatant manipulative surface level that I never believed any of it. Everybody's acting their asses off, but none of it feels real. THE WRESTLER's the opposite for me. I fully acknowledge that Aronofsky's working familiar ground here, and that seems to be the point. It's the specific choices he makes that turn the cliche into something honest and earned here. If you don't feel it, that's cool. I also think RUDY is fucking fantastic. Care to take some shots at the honesty of that ending, too?
rudy.. by mavsman15	Nov 8th, 2008 04:34:10 AM
he actually did sack the qb in the game. as for the rest of the film..
It's about time there was a movie showing what wrestlers really by Mr Nicholas	Nov 8th, 2008 06:20:16 AM
I really can't wait to see this.
The ending by dr sauch	Nov 8th, 2008 08:22:19 AM

The Fountain was an amazing movie, btw. by dr sauch	Nov 8th, 2008 08:24:11 AM

Goodness Gracious by fivezero	Nov 8th, 2008 12:28:40 PM
You people expect a movie to hungrily eat your asshole and then lovingly give you a reach around. The Wrestler is a movie by a guy who probably isn't making movies for you.
Rudy? by chaplinatemyshoe	Nov 8th, 2008 02:06:33 PM
Really? I mean, the movie's alright, and I certainly can't compare it to a movie I haven't seen (The Wrestler), but just from people's description of The Wrestler, it seems the only similarity between it and Rudy is both involve sports. And for the record, Rudy is pretty middle of the road for inspirational sports movies.
The Fountain theory... by scrivener	Nov 8th, 2008 04:54:44 PM
I thought the movie was fairly self explanatory... the modern stuff and the space stuff are both "real." The conquistador stuff is the representation of the book that Izzy was writing, and it parallels the events in their life together, symbolically (that's an entirely different essay in it's own right). At the end of the modern events, Tommy discovers the "cure" to death... but only just too late to save Izzy. With death cured, Tommy lives such a long life that the tree he planted on his wife's grave (which now contains her spirit), is dying of old age. He sets out to take her to Shelbalba... literally.
Saw it at TIFF and loved it... by DanielKurland	Nov 8th, 2008 05:51:28 PM
Agree completely with the review. The scene where Randy is working in the deli section and having fun with his job is just an absolute pleasure to watch. And, at the very least: naked Marissa Tomei...
I'm so glad people are EXCITED about this... by DanielKurland	Nov 8th, 2008 06:03:52 PM
I loved the movie, but thought it would more or less come and go. But just seeing the excitement for it here is great. I'd love to see Rourke get an Oscar nomination for this.
really? by ranma627	Nov 9th, 2008 02:17:39 AM
I have to say the constant use of the following shot of Mickey Rourke in the Wrestler bugged me but the movie was still good, just not great. And definitely not better than Requiem or The Fountain. You are insane for saying that Moriarty. I understand the hate for the Fountain. Either people did not understand the movie or people felt the movie used themes and ideas that are present in many other works by smarter people than Aronofsky. Fact to me is, The Fountain is his best work and the most emotional and beautiful film I have ever seen. The ideas of immortality and everlasting love and just the Mayan belief system was entirely new to me and I thank Aronofsky for bringing that to the mainstream even though he took ideas from someone else. Whoever exposes you to something first has the most effect on you, after all. As far as theories on the Fountain, the future storyline could be real or part of the book. Either case can be argued but I'd like to think it wasn't real. I'd like to think Tommy eventually accepted Izzi's death and understood that death is not the end but the road to awe and once he dies, together they will live forever. Fucking beautiful stuff, I love that film so so much.
"The Wrestler" release date: Dec. 17th by Rocco Curioso	Nov 9th, 2008 03:19:21 AM
I'll see it just for Rourke, but it sounds like something more than just a tour de force comeback performance(thanks for clarifying that, Moriarty). Please don't let that Springsteen song over the closing credits be "Glory Days"(too schmaltzy, IMO). There's an interesting article in the Nov. 2nd issue of Entertainment Weekly about Rourke that is properly respectful, but fuckit if he didn't start breaking down in tears when the interviewer(Dr. Drew in disguise?)probed a bit deeper than perhaps he should have. That kind of frankness may have served the moment appropriately, but Roarke needs to deal with the fact that he was once his own worst enemy, and move on. It behooves him not to whine in a public forum. He may well snag a Best Actor nomination, but he won't win if he keeps up that nonsense.
blackcrippler by Jed	Nov 9th, 2008 11:36:48 AM
how're those meds treating you, buddy. there was a shitton of honesty in the stripper and the daughter. maybe your life hasn't led you to have to deal with situations like that but they were just on. and why would "the old ram" be a good thing after everything that's come before it? if that speech in the ring isn't about his growth there's no movie. why you have to call the reviewer names? is it because it's moriarty? do you think that strengthen's your argument? what's your endgame, that FOX is funnelling revenue into Harry's back pocket? If so, you've not been paying attention these last 9 years, buddy.
Is Ram the fictionalized Jake The Snake? by mjgtexas	Nov 9th, 2008 06:48:37 PM
Curious on the inspiration...
Films are Art. They need art departments. by debrislide	Nov 21st, 2008 02:30:33 AM
How come the art department is never mentioned in reviews. Films look good or bad based on the dp and what the has to work with visually. Sets do not magically appear. The art Dept. is usually the largest dept on a film. Time to give the "Art" dept a little cred. Films are generally considered "art".
Great performance, but great film? by unionJACKass.webs.com	Jan 9th, 2009 12:27:12 PM
No. It is a very good one, though. A good one, indeed.

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Moriarty @ AFI Fest: Aronofsky’s THE WRESTLER!

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