To the writers of "Heroes": Please do not let me down.

The bad section in Herc's review has me concerned, its stinking something fierce, like a day old corpse under the desert sun.

I no longer except any awesomeness from Heroes. Flawed writing and convinient plot 'coincidences' seem to be as much part of the show as superpowers. Heroes, at best, is like a fan-fiction version of comic book stories. Would be a crime to expect any proficiency in writing.

Added bonus AC/DC in the opening.

That review didn't give me the warm fuzzies. I was hoping for Monica Bellucci type warmth, instead it may be The Bates type warm.

As for Sylar cutting out brains, I always thought the reason he did that was in case someone else developed his power, they wouldn't be able to copycat him by going after already claimed brains. It could also be he somehow knew (from Chandra?) that the brain is what controlled the powers, so it's possible someone with healing could recover if their brain was intact.

The single most compelling reason to not watch? Peter "Fucking Idiot" Petrelli. My goodness, what a complete fuckhead he is! Sylar may be evil, but he's at least not a complete numbnuts. The character of Peter is so poorly developed, so fucking stupid, so contrived, that it's hard to buy anything this show sells when he's involved.

And personally, I'm sick of Claire. Fuck Claire and her family. I wish they'd have just killed off her stupid family in the first season.

Adding Veronia Mars last year was the last straw for me-- She was a pointless character played by a one-note actress. She, along with Peter and the Telemundo Twins, spoiled the series for me.

BAD WRITING IS KRING'S SUPER POWER!

I'll give it three episodes then this fanboy is likely out.

1. Maya... who was brought back to life several minutes later.

2. Nikki... who is somehow back this season?

3. Nathan... who is also brought back this season?

4. Adam... who was buried alive and could very well come back.

.

So, no one died in the season finale last year? Wow... nice organization there, NBC!

As said by Damon Lindelof, "no one dies on that fucking show."

Of course, if Elle is killed off, I will be the first one yelling for a reset button to keep her around.

Now they are just writing and rewriting themselves out of holes.

Yeah, comic book plots and sci-fi use time travel and coming back from the dead as plot devices, but not every 5 minutes.

Hell, I too will give it one last chance tonight but after abandoning Supernatural near the beginning of Season 2 it would seem I should have stuck with that rather than Heroes painfull Season 2.

HEROES hasn't had that going for it since about the 3/4 mark of Season 1 and the sad truth is that everyone can now look back and pretty much see it. You can literally go back and see where the show started to degenerate. And the biggest problem was that it came out of the gate strong, at which point Kring and NBC decided "Hey, we got ourselves a Hit!" -- and then they made the critical mistake that too often gets made in TV: they decided the fans would never go away, which meant they could play now things safe so they could milk this cow for as long as they could. After all, if it's a hit you don't want to ever shake things up. So now we have a boring show with little effects work and plot points that are not only dragged out, but the internal continuity doesn't even make sense anymore. Truth be told, HEROES is comic book storytelling on the most hack like level.

Want further proof of that? Up above Hobocode nailed it when he said: "One look at Hayden in her "evil" outfit and it's impossible not to snicker." And that's really the truth. She does look fucking ridiculous. Does anyone actually buy her as a "bad" girl? She looks fucking silly. When HEROES premiered it felt fresh, now it just feels like a BAD comic book stunt sale -- "Oooh look! Buy this issue because this hero becomes evil this issue! Oooh look! Buy this issue because a team member will die!"...and of course, as all comic fans know, there's always a reset button that sets things right back.

Kring blew it with HEROES by never realizing that if they got 3-4 years out of the show (which the ratings and success from S1 pretty much gave him the ammunition towards) that would be pretty damn good. Which meant they should have been looking to mix things up and keep everyone guessing -- but instead as in typical TV they decided that's exactly what they WOULDN'T do because Heaven forbid you upset the "hit" qualities. So good going, Kring and NBC. You went from being a fresh hit to incredibly TIRED and STALE practically overnight.

I'll put up spoiler alerts if needed.

hey, they played my short film on CNN again this weekend. booyakasha!

doesnt' Xiphos hate Heroes now? I remember he was pretty angered by a lot of the flaws from last season. (or as I refer to it, "Diet Heroes".

bring back Bryan Fuller! someone else can do pushing daisies!

chrth knows the future.

Prof. Ikamono has the power of flame, and he only uses it for good! ;o)

Ororo has the power of invisibility 9 months of the year!

Pennsy wields the sacred sword of Kech-Fraiz!

OK, I'm done...

Did you catch your girl on Leno last week?

Saw her not just on Leno, where if looks could kill, Dane Cook would be a corpse right now with his handjob comment while Kristen described what Elle does, but Craig Ferguson, too. They have a great chemistry together that really shined through.

Nice to see the old gang reuniting. May the episodes be as entertaining, if not moreso, than the talkback (the reverse of the Emmys, which are looking to be the lowest-rated EVAH).

Maya is actually hotter than last year.

And IMO, The Sarah Connor Chronicles is much better than Heroes.

Peter already is screwing with time hell why stop now...just bounce around till you get it right..but then what show would we have? And if peter is inside that spanish dude...where the hell is the spanish dude?

A bi-polar medication ad...really?

On top of that, can the heroes ever stop a threat in the, I don't know, PRESENT? Christ almighty. Why must we always SEE the "potential future" when we KNOW that it's not going to be what happens anyway.

That being said, I was actually entertained. Season 2 bored the living shit out of me. I was watching and nothing was happening. At least this year shit is happening, even if it's poorly written shit that's happening. I enjoyed it, I was entertained, and I will continue watching.

There just seems to be no focus. Despite the fact they had months off to prepare for this, things seem to be buckling under its own ambitions. Oh well. Let's see where this goes.

It's funny. In Season One, Peter was an intelligent and very well developed character. If you ask me, the LEGITIMATE Heroes story ended in that moving episode wherein Noah sacrifices all of his memories of his daughter Claire and then allows himself to be non-lethally shot just to protect her. The ILLEGITIMATE stories began with the next episode, which *gasp* revealed that the Hatian had only erased Noah's most recent memories of Claire.

Put the "characters" in jeopardy, not the world. Who cares about the world, get to the gritty core and make this television to remember.

I mostly liked both episodes tonight, but it could have been more effective had it only been one episode.

They should have more truly human characters, a human without a power can still be a HERO.

Keep it fast. Keep it dark. Keep it in the present. And go bugnuts crazy, quit playing it safe. Expose the mutants to the world; don't cover it up each season.

Yeah, but what about what the audience has learned about your character as a person based on past decisions? Don't we need to be consistent to flesh out your character and encourage the audience to become emotionally invested?

No.

Well, ok, but after a while won't the "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have superpowers" factor get old? Won't the audience need something more than just a convoluted plot to follow to keep them watching?

Probably, but that’s all we’re gonna give ‘em.

Well, than why should I keep watching?

Because, hey, wouldn’t it be cool to have superpowers?

Future Pete, didn't realize that he made things worse...The universe changes with every thing he does.

-the episodes were alright, a little convoluted. it felt like at times they were afraid of seeming to "start slow" like last season, so they were stuffing too much into the first "2" episodes. and if they were planning on showing them back to back? what is the point of cliffhangers? hey, note to self: Mohinder laying on the ground possibly dead carried a lot of weight...FOR 10 FUCKING SECONDS UNTIL THE NEXT EPISODE STARTED.

-no one wants to see Hiro and Ando fight. I know what they're trying to do, but stop it. if it goes on for more than one more episode, people are going to start to cry foul. Ando has the power of !AWESOME!.

-possible choices for Mohinder's new name, now that he has powers? "Mo' Hinder" "Mofacilitate" (or "Moimprove") "Brundlehinder"

-Herc, I got the sense that Peter was playing with strings in the apartment to try to figure out the best course of action now that he's screwed things up. he went back and shot Nathan, and that fucked shit up. he can't just go back and do something else and be sure of fixing anything. instead of just saying he's stupid, can we at least TRY to give the benefit of the doubt and say that he did an impetuous thing by going back and shooting Nathan (remember, in his timeframe, it happened pretty quickly. claire shoots, he dodges, gets the gun, pops out, puts on a hat, blim blam blammity bam, so instead of being impetuous again and doing more harm, he's being careful both in what he does, and what he says, as the scenes with Nathan and Claire show.

the speedy chick is hot, but she is a little too much of a Kristen Bell look alike. can we get a redhead up in this piece? her name ideas? The Ferosh Flash? Eat my Pixie Dust? (never mind, that one was a joke) Hot Topic? Frizzleflash? man, it's late, I can't think of any good ones...

-the shit with Parkman was good. just enough to give us a sense of what might be, and keep the ideas flowing, but not too much. I wish every plot line had been left at a point like that.

-next week looks ridiculous. Sylar and HRG? it's like they have to match up each character with each other character at least once. don't overdo it. there better be a HUGELY good reason why a) HRG is back with mama pterelli after she locked him up, b) Sylar would actually help anyone (even if she IS his mom), c) why anyone doesn't just kill her (all she has is some dream nonsense power that she doesn't seem to put much stock in since she's helping Sylar, and the power of !WRINKLE!)

-Herc's right, good pacing. none of the scenes seemed to drag, and that was good.

-wht the hell wouldn't the company have HRG's house under surveillance if he escaped and they know Claire is there, not to mention HIS FUCKING COMPUTER FULL OF THEIR INFORMATION, RIGHT NEXT TO A FATTY GUN??? I'm betting the beginning of next episode shows him being captured, and that's why he's their potentially matched up with Sylar. no way they leave his house unguarded.

-why turn Kristen Bell away? (unless you're going to bend her over a table like Pennsy wants to do) if you don't need her, then put her in a holding cell. no one wants an evil electric bitch who's dad jsut died running loose, right? that was a lazy point, to my mind.

-I like Mohinder pimping out. I wish they had been just a TINY bit clearer in the shot with the shit on his back. it was hard to make out what it was at all. scales? wings? broken mexican nails? hard to say.

-why the german gotta be a baddy? and why give him Magneto's power, when Magneto ESCAPED from a Nazi camp? (at least according to the x-men movie, I've never read a comic in my life...sorry guys)

-all in all, some warts aside, a good start and if anyone was feeling a little sting from the shortened second season, I have to believe this gets you back on board. definitely felt like the first season again.

-Ando does not have a power...EVER. I will bet anyone $100 powers that is someone impersonating him to get at Hiro. Ando's power is loyalty and awesomeness, and that is how it should stay.

-the only cool part of the live shitfest was hearing the actor who portrays Ando speaking in unaccented English. that was tight.

-I'm going to go to bed.

I see a LOT of people bitching up a storm about the quality of this show, and I'm not one of them. I enjoy the show, and yeah, I get into it, but I'm not in love with it. I know it's flawed, but I don't pick it abpart as much as some on this TB. That having been said, as soon as Maya walked into Mohinder's lab, I was thinking, "Shit, he's the indian Jeff Goldblum." Some of the dialogue almost seems ripped straight out of Cronenberg's script - "I feel like a whole new man; I'm stronger, faster..." etc. He was all coked out on his new powers and wasted no time yanking the nearest chick's clothes off. Then next thing you know, he's staring into the mirror and removing parts from his own body.

I don't think the show is entirely unoriginal (despite the entire premise being "Lost meets X-Men,") but I know a ripoff when I see one. Something tells me Tim Kring actually wants to have Jeff Goldblum show up later in the season and school Mohinder's character about the abuses of instantly-bestowed powers.

9PM: 6.8/10

9:30: 6.6/10

10PM: 6.3/10

10:30: 6.1/10

I wish there was an alternate future where reality tv was not a part of anyone's viewing schedule. :(

If you didn't notice that sweet body of hers, then me thinks you've been watching too much HD-DVD and your eye balls have been fried.

Unfortunately, the series is still more like SMALLVILLE than LOST, but as long as you don't set the bar too high, as many of you obviously have, it's still fun to watch.

BTW, sci-fi channel was showing episodes 8 - 10 last night of Lost. I've never seen Lost, and was watching some of that. I guess I'll eventually give it a shot since it's hard to judge from the little I saw, but the hobbit standing on a bee's nest: pretty silly.

Opinion? It's like a filmmaker was spying on guys at a comic convention, taking notes on all the things they talked about, and then turned it into a single show. In these two episodes we had rip offs (or "homages") of Days of Future Past, The Fly, Magneto, The Flash, The Empire Strikes Back, New Avengers #1 (massive electrical outburst from Electro-like baddy frees all the super-powered villains in holding cells), The Butterfly Effect, Red Dragon, The Gods Must Be Crazy, Spider-Man, and The Greatest American Hero.

It's fascinating because it's so incredible contrived and ham-fisted. It's as if Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons made a TV show. It's bad but in a good way.

Oh, I'll just say it: It's like fucking "Days of Our Lives" but with super powers. I may end up watching it after all, because it's so goddamn cheesy and I could use a laugh after work.

But there is one thing I liked - Claire's character development. Her angst about not feeling pain. Her complaint about still only being a victim despite her superpower, wanting to learn to fight. Planting the seeds for evil Claire. And the implication that Sylar's attack was like a rape of sorts. When Claire's mom asks her (without saying the words) whether Sylar raped her, Claire said no. But the way she said it, it was almost like the silent part of that line was - 'no, something worse.' Talk about the ultimate violation, to have someone's fingers in your brain. The way that was played was interesting, but the inconsistencies, the ripoffs, the convenient plot points (as bad as Prison Break!), still keep this show mediocre.

Anyway, the season 3 premiere of Heroes seemed a bit stuffed. Like they tried to cram everything they had left over from Season 2 in the first 2 episodes. I'll give it a couple more episodes before I judge the entire season harshly. Tim Kring keeps saying that he never read comics but he really needs to. Or at least hire someone to tell him what storylines have already been covered in comics. I was hoping the writers strike would have generated some new ideas and concepts. Here's hoping....

I watched The 4400, and I now watch Heroes. I can't really tell you which one is better, and that's sad. I'll continue to watch Heroes, but it's on my "ridiculous, badly written, and riddled with plot holes but entertaining and still 100x better than reality tv bullshit" list, right along with Prison Break, TSCC, Fringe, Nip/Tuck(lol), and ...Stargate Atlantis. Kind of ashamed of the last one, but DON'T JUDGE MEEEEEEE!!!!

What are the shows I consider excellent? The Wire (RIP), The Shield, Lost, Supernatural, Dexter, and BSG.

If Mohinderfly stops with the cheesy voiceover and acting then I for one am all for his new powers.

I'd say the theory that the show is static and formulaic and no one ever dies or leaves is not entirely accurate.

Anyone who wants to bail on the show now is welcome to do so with my fervent hopt they stay the fuck out of the talkbacks instead of coming back each week to announce they're going to stop watching the show. You don't like it, we get it, move along, nothing to see here.

Just as important, where's the missing Peter/ Look, peter had a body, future Peter physically returned in a body, and Future Peter shifted Peter's intellect into a villains body. Is future Peter in his own body or present Peter's body, and whichever one he's occupying, where did the other body go? That's what I'd like to knopw.

See, that's how these talkbacks work once the h8ters move on. The show has a flaw, I'm not saying I hate the show because of it, I'm just wondering is anyone has a theory to explain it. Parkman found the gun, how come no one's found the other Peter?

I also think that Medium is a good super-hero series and I think it's cool that Mama Petrelli's superpower is also precognitive dreaming, just like Allison Dubois. Only she doesn't dream about recently deceased ghosts.

have future peter have a scar, to make sure you relaise he's from the future, forget about that little pesky healing power that he has.

Future claire tries to shoot future peter. have a chat with him why not, the guy who can stop time! if you're serious about killing him, then hire a fucking sniper and chop his head off.

future peter kills current time nathan. yeah, why not stop time, talk to him, go to a time before the conference and let him know. he may listen to you, well, casue his your brother. ah.. forget about it, it way too much hassle. why not just shoot him in a room full of reporters and cameramen in a police station. it;'s not like anyone is going to take your picture or arrest you.

have claire stuck in the house when sylar attacks. It's not as if she's in any danger. don't make her jump out the window, cause she might get hurt with all that boken glass.. no wait..

have hiro guard a secret that could destory the world. hmm. maybe it would be better to destroy the piece of paper. nahh... despite being at the forefront of two apolocolayspses, let hiro be irreponsible and let him check this secret out.

have a speedster, stela the secret from him, she's got to be hanging around at exactly the right moment that hiro takes out the secret. god only knows how long sh'es been hanging around. sh'es super fast. so fast that even when time stops she can walk around!. hmm someone who hiro doesnt know has stolen a secret that could end the world. absolutely no point in going back in time 10 15 miuntes and stopping himself from opening up the safe. just for the sake of the world.

let future peter transport his friend and buddy out in the middle of nowhere. who knows if he gets to live or die. forget about it. the guys just shot his brother, but he's fellow hero friend.. well let's play survivor with him.

let sylar, he of telekeisi power, not be able to open up a closet that claire is in. dont even bother to break it down. sh'es gonna get out sooner or later.

let mo forget about his moral dilema of his research and all that he's seen create a drug that gives everyone powers!, why not try it on yourself? what's the worse that can happen? just become some sort of lothario and get some!

nikki and jessica wasn't enough, lets get tracy in teh act as well. what is she? the female jamie madrox? ( nah i forgot kring doesnt read any of the x comics) ( nice touch on getting the greatest american hero as a reporter!)

bring back claires real mother, incase we forgot, remeber to get her to get claire with not a heloo or hug, but with a open palm of fire!

nice touch getting weevil and kbell back again. invisible linderman im not so sure about. mama petrelli as sylars mother *meh* seriously is this what we've waited a year for? it's decidely average. a lot of those plot holes above are just picky, but a hell of a lot of them are wtf momnets that just draw you completely out of the story. i used to love reading comics iuntil i relaised that these "heroes" weren't growing up and able to make sensible decsisons without getting into a fistfight. heroes seems to do exaclty the same. you need some fucking continity and not a reset button whenever you feel the need to move along the pacing of the show.

it's disapointing, there's a whole lot that needs improvement. Honestly it's become like smallville. absolutely tripe, but a guilty pleasure. soon it's goona be like the 4400, simplly not worth watching. hire some comic book writers dammit to tightne up your script. you already know you're in trouble. the heroes countdown to premire tried to build up a buzz, but no one wants to be invited to this fucking party. You shutdown Journeyman for this? FUCK YOU NBC!

and milo if you have to date someone younger the acceptable calculation is half your age +7 years.

I have a theory on Nikki. It's not her, it's her twin sister who supposedly died at birth. I mean DUH, what super hero actually loses their twin at birth? They're always whisked away by some secret gov't agency/benevolent group/concerned relative.

That's really disappointing about Bell. The Agency is idiotic for cutting lose a super powerful wild card who just lost her father. But NBC is even more idiotic for limiting her role this year. Fucktards.

Huh?

If that fails, go to plan b: hire a blonde with big boobs.

Pennsy-no Elle until 10-20?WTF Iwas looking forward to seeing her go nuts on someone.

Still not 100% sold on Angela being Sylars mother...this is a woman who was willing to destroy a city along with her sons.What's a little lie if it helps her out in the long run?

Fun episodes,far from perfect,but,better than reality shit!

I am INDEED GROWING WEARY of people pointing out "plot holes" that are not holes, but rather choices they don't agree with. a good example is Hiro not going back in time to stop the theft of the formula. Ando BLATANTLY SUGGESTED that to him, and Hiro's response was something about the fact that when he goes back in time, shit is messed up, and he's not going to do it. now, you might disagree with that, but that is a valid reason for why Hiro doesn't go back.

I don't mind bitching (hell if none of you bitched, who would I ridicule and correct?) but pay attention guys!

Wonka out. I'll be back after I win $100 for the 2nd week in a row at trivia.

How come the Telenovela chick lost almost all of her accent? She looks hot though, I'll give her that. Did they put her in stripper shoes yet?

Ep 2 is actually better and sets up what could be some fun shit down the road. It's better than S2 already, but I know that isn't saying much.

Catching any Fringe or True Blood?

FNL is on DirecTV this fall because of strictly economic measures. NBC co-opted with them to share the cost of making the show. There might be a fairly significant cast turnover, also a cost-cutting move. A few of the regulars (the footballers) are on their way out to be replaced by others on the cheap. Is there a recurring theme here? *sighs*

It's clear that Angela has a plan for Elle; either she's letting her loose to be killed by the Brotherhood of Mutants ;), or that she'll hook up with Noah to stop them. Of course, Elle may be so pissed off that she'll go rogue and join the baddies and draw a bead on Angela's scalp. So Mama P's move could easily backfire. And did Cristine Rose overact a little bit last night?

Was Mohinder's wretched recital of 'The Second Coming'. I like that poem and he gave it none of the *gravitas* it deserves.

His disintegration isn't the experiment coming back on him, it's the ghost of William Butler Yeats wreaking undead vengeance on his philistine ass.

Makes about as much sense as anything else that happened.

I have no interest in True Blood so I have not watched it. I did watch the first couple of episodes of Fringe. I wished I hadn't.

I thought it was badly written, badly acted, badly cast, deadly dull crap. About what I expected from the wonderful writing duo of Orci and Kurtzman. Their chuckleheadness is without peer.

That sucks what NBC is doing to FNL. Maybe the silver lining in this move is that they can now swear and show nudity? I vote for Adrienne Palicki, the tall blonde chick, as the first one to show the goods, quickly followed by the dark haired one. Perhaps a lesbo scene? That might work out real well.

First off, if I were Kring, I would have offered K-Bell a blank check; fill in the amount, and we'll make it work. You can't afford to let someone of her caliber walk from a show that needs all the good will it can get. Make her a huge part of the show. Have her keep digging into just how complicit Midas Bob was in compromising her childhood. When she does find the smoking gun, she goes apeshit, kills him, goes to Primatech Paper and takes over the Company. And since this arc is called 'Villains', have her unlock the place where they're kept. All of them pledge their loyalty to Elle at that point.

Then when Sylar comes a callin' on the Company, armed with Claire's regeneration, Elle's waiting for him. She points to Sylar and says to the assembled, "look, boys; fresh meat." They proceed to kick the living shit outta Gabe, who barely escapes with his life. Elle then sends them out into the world with one standing order; wreak as much havoc as you wish. At that point, you have the opportunity to turn Sylar semi-babyface, have him team up with Noah (after he tosses him around for suggesting Elle dig into her dad's past). Presto. Space-time continuum preserved.

But that now is reduced to fanfic. How about it, though?

Happy b-day...appreciate the info & enthusiasm!Thanks...

yeah, that would have made sense, EXCEPT for the fact that Hiro was sitting at his desk bored and making time go backwards and forwards!

It's like all of those people in Wall-E. You'd get lazy and then fat. And if you get fat, you can't get any hot poon-tang.

I hate the fact that I watch this poorly acted, lazily written, over-hyped sorry excuse for an hour long time-killer. That being said, see you next week after I struggle through another crappy episode.

And hey, what the hell happened to the ability mimicking girl? Is she still trapped in that burning house?

it's not always about logic, these characters don't behave with perfect hindsight, or perfect intentions every time. not like a perfect AICN talkbacker...