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Toronto: Chris has seen Soderbergh's epic two-parter... CHE starring Benicio!

Looking forward to this film by banville	Sep 11th, 2008 09:56:07 PM
very much.
Now that is a proper review. by gringostar	Sep 11th, 2008 10:08:52 PM
God job mate!
obligatory Che Guevara phase by JohnnyRicoHatesBugs	Sep 11th, 2008 10:12:09 PM
I guess I missed that phase.
It's screening again tomorrow... by BrooseTheScharuk	Sep 11th, 2008 10:12:56 PM
...at Ryerson. Both parts back to back. I tried to get tix but all gone. Boooooo!
Next from Soderbergh "Stalin: the Early Years" by Charlie_Allnut	Sep 11th, 2008 10:14:21 PM
Followed by the more comedic "Stalin: The Purge! (Or 30 million dead and counting)"
Viva Revolucion--somewhere else by King Kull	Sep 11th, 2008 10:14:38 PM
So we'll all watch this dreck, go out and vote for Obama, and pretty soon the USA will be like Cuba. We'll all be eating octopus, selling our blood on the blackmarket and running scams like Tony Montana in Scarface. Only there'll be no place to float our rubber rafts when it comes time to escape this "socialist paradise." One question: What is it about Hollywood assholes of a certain ilk and their fascination with commie fascists?
Excellent, excellent review. by MetalMickey	Sep 11th, 2008 10:15:46 PM

Then the Romantic Drama: "Adolph and Eva" by Charlie_Allnut	Sep 11th, 2008 10:21:22 PM

HorrorWeen IS legit by master bitchfist	Sep 11th, 2008 10:37:53 PM
sigh. i'm working on a movie with Joe Estevez in it right now. YES. He did direct HorrorWeen.
Thanks for kind words! by CM1986	Sep 11th, 2008 10:38:07 PM
To gringostar and MetalMickey -- thanks for the more-than-kind words on the review! To Banzai Rootskibango -- I don't know, obviously the movie tries to show both sides, but I think it is pretty objective for the most part. Sure, it has all the requisite bits on "American imperialism" and its obviously tilted a bit in Che's direction (since he is side we're watching), but the opinion of the opposition is thoroughly included in each. In all, the two films are actually a bit light on political bias, which I'm sure a lot of people might end up complaining about. Just my opinion though.
To IAmJack'sUserID by CM1986	Sep 11th, 2008 10:43:00 PM
When I was a kid I loved Che for all the wrong reasons, but now that I'm older and wiser (I hope), I see him for what he was: a rebel -- entirely partisan, stubborn, and ultimately misguided (without Fidel's political savvy) in terms if his notion of revolution, but still, incredibly involving and romantic as a figure. It by NO MEANS glorifies him, but also doesn't outright villainize him. To answer your question, I really think it paints a neutral view, and as you can see, it has been getting a crazy mixed reaction because of it. Really up to you guys to decide. I think I enjoyed the picture most for its artistic and technical achievements, way more so than its thematic ones.
Why I loved this movie... by CM1986	Sep 11th, 2008 10:45:29 PM
Just to make clear for future posts: no, I don't "idolize" Che, or necessarily agree with the man's political beliefs. If anything, my love for this movie comes from HOW it was made, not necessarily WHAT it was about.
Banzai Rootskibango by CM1986	Sep 11th, 2008 10:50:22 PM
Thanks for the post. I honestly think anyone here looking for any political ideology will be disappointed. This is really a 'process' picture. It kind of just shows you what happens, not why it happens. People have their opinions, but that is pretty much that, and what happens in the movie is based on how history subsequently worked out. All the best, enjoy the movie when you see it!
TOO CHE!!! by BringingSexyBack	Sep 11th, 2008 10:58:15 PM
Great review and thanks for the followup.
should be cool by Sasquatch-The Legend of Bigfoot	Sep 11th, 2008 11:03:12 PM
Soderbergh is always interesting. I wish he would collaborate with the Coen's on a bigfoot movie.
Thanks CM1986 by Herewereyouwish	Sep 11th, 2008 11:12:12 PM
Absolutely fantastic review. Cannot wait to see this film, fell in love with Del Toro back when The Usual Suspects came out, glad to see talent surviving.
YES CM1986! by BadMrWonka	Sep 11th, 2008 11:23:21 PM
CM1986, GREAT review man. so jealous you got to see this. this line really sums up what we all here at AICN should support: "But I am a filmgoer who has a lot of faith in a proven director's vision, especially one as talented as Steven Soderbergh, and I am also one who gets excited by the prospect of seeing something DIFFERENT on screen." we may not have a lot of faith in anything else. but faith in the magic of cinema is why we spend so much time here, instead of reading fucking Entertainment Weekly. we love movies, and we love anyone breaking new ground. I'll bend over backwards to say a good word about a filmmaker doing something innovative, even if it's a partial or virtual failure. and in Soderbergh's case, you don't have to bend at all, just be open to what he's trying to do, since he's one of our generations truly great filmmakers.
Is it officially gonna be 2 films? by Six Demon Bag	Sep 11th, 2008 11:26:50 PM
At first I was disappointed when i heard it would be 2 rather than 1, but it sounds like they might complement each other quite nicely.
More than just a T-shirt Icon... by Six Demon Bag	Sep 11th, 2008 11:29:55 PM
hopefully this film(s) will help educate the many people wearing the shirts simply as a fashion statement
Che Guevara phase by bk-whopper	Sep 11th, 2008 11:35:57 PM
Meh its funny how the people who actually have to live under communism aren't as impressed with it as western college kiddies with their Che Guevara and Soviet hammer and sickle T-shirts, and Red star of China fashion tote bags
"Che Guevara phase" by CM1986	Sep 11th, 2008 11:41:02 PM
That is why it is called "phase"... a "youth"ful one at that...
Overheard at Hot Topic... by Thrillho77	Sep 11th, 2008 11:41:49 PM
"Did you hear they're making a movie based on this shirt!?!?!" "Wow, Hollywood's running out of ideas..."
bk-whopper by BadMrWonka	Sep 11th, 2008 11:45:14 PM
actually the stars on the Chinese flag are gold, not red... but I get your point that you're a douchebag.
Che was a fucking piece of shit by GilbertRSmith	Sep 12th, 2008 12:09:12 AM
He looks great on a T-Shirt, I'll give you that, but he was a sadist who wrote and talked at length about the pleasure he derived from making other people suffer. There are so many real heroes out there. Nelson Mandela, Norman Borlaug, whose research has saved an estimated one billion lives, and you are shitting in their cereal to worship fucks like Che and Charles Manson. If you want a brown-skinned militant revolutionary, at least have the human decency to go with Pancho Villa (who was a warmonger, but an actual revolutionary and not a sexual sadist). You can't worship a monster because he looks cool on a t-shirt, you can't base your personal politics on Hot Topic variety fashion. Fuck Che in his commie ass.
Che as a villain by Toonol	Sep 12th, 2008 12:47:10 AM
He may be a bad guy; but sometimes good movies can be made about bad people. I'm the last guy to support a commie murderer; but it can still be a fascinating study, watching what makes somebody head down that path. As long as the film doesn't glorify it, that is.
"Che was a piece of shit" by ebonic_plague	Sep 12th, 2008 12:52:09 AM
Yet Ollie North has his own TV show.
I agree ebonic by Dirk Shocker	Sep 12th, 2008 01:05:35 AM
Somebody should do a proper Pancho Villa epic to forget about the Antonio Banderas' version ... and yeah, Che was a piece of shit although I like the director.
Stalin II: The Rise of the Pooty-Poot-Poot by PirateEmery	Sep 12th, 2008 01:10:20 AM
$5 says that the old USSR is brought back by Comrade Putin before the end of the year.
Movies that Make Bad People Look Good by PirateEmery	Sep 12th, 2008 01:14:39 AM
The first movie of the kind that comes to mind is "Motorcycle Diaries." And then I realized who that movie was about and I started to notice a pattern...
Hey sasquatch... by menstrual_blitz	Sep 12th, 2008 01:18:16 AM
...are you saying that because you heard about a coen/Soderbergh project, or are you just crazy about bigfoot?
bush 2: "osama and I are business partners" by ironic_name	Sep 12th, 2008 01:22:47 AM

CLI CHE! by ironic_name	Sep 12th, 2008 01:28:04 AM

If it doesn't include any of Che's actual murders... by The Kusabi	Sep 12th, 2008 01:40:56 AM
...it's not a wholly accurate portrayal and as such is worthless. If Soderburgh was concerned about authenticity he would have shown Che personally executing a 14 year old boy prisoner, before opening fire on the other prisoners who were shocked and angered at what they'd just seen. THAT would be giving you the measure of the man. But I suppose for Soderburgh, the point is hero worship, besides which I bet there'd be riots at the cinema if there was such a scene because that's what Che lovers are like.
Emery, 2008? by VegasRon	Sep 12th, 2008 01:46:30 AM
I'll take that wager. 2009 was what I said 2 years ago and I'm sticking to it. Oh, and Georgia, stay out of my NATO, I don't want to go to war over your nowhere nation.
CM1986 by VegasRon	Sep 12th, 2008 01:47:32 AM
Great review, glad to hear it's political neutral, I really hate historical films with an agenda.
Props to the reviewer for an in depth analysis... by The Eskimo	Sep 12th, 2008 01:58:06 AM
...but I will be surprised if this is any good. Two things Che did well was to change an ideology and sell a lot of t-shirts. Might as well make an Ain't it Cool movie. This should be a straight biography or nothing at all, cause the actual ramifications of Che's guirilla movement is way skewed in pop culture history. I bet 99% of the people who sport his face on their shirt have no idea what he actually accomplished.
1986 by Olsen Twins_Fan	Sep 12th, 2008 02:08:06 AM
Based on his user tag it appears that this reviewer is 22 years old. If that is the case, when was his youthful Che phase - 2 years ago? I will disregard this review until a grownup sees it, thank you.
ebonic_plague Olie North did not order, or by StraightToHell	Sep 12th, 2008 02:41:47 AM
personally execute man and women because they did not agree with his ideology. Nobody is going to argue that politics is often a dirty and bloody business. But I seriously doub that North, even if he was doing shit that he knew before-hand could result in people being killed, actually took pleasure in it like Che HIMSELF had admitted to in his writings. There is a difference between a soldier and a psychopath. And time and time again, all of the socialist leaders and "revolutionaries" have proven themselves to be nothing more than power hungry monsters. Hitler, Stallin, Mussolini, Chaushesku, Kim Jung, Castro, Chaves, Puttin (who is well on his way to putting Mother Russia back together). Every single one of these monsters spoke of liberating their people, and then ended up dehumanising them and destroying them. And say what you will about North, at least the guy was not interested in getting his fellow countrymen killed and tortured, which Che and all of the others I've mentioned had little problem with. Dictators do not give a shit about their own people, despite of what they say. If they did, they would not impose their dictatorial ways on their own countrymen. And take it from someone who was born and lived in USSR for many years before moving to US. All of the wonder myths about the beauty of socialist healthcare system, equal pay. equal this and equal that, all result in people who have to drink themselves to death (just check the life expectancy statistics in Russia) just to make their life bearable. That being said, I don't believe that you can't make an ieresting, even brilliant films about someone who was a terribly destructive person. Look at Scarface? Granted, Tony Montana only killed rivaled drug dealers, and would have never murdered kids and women, but he was still a killer who was doing illegal shit. Brilliant movie. Same with Raging Bull. The man was an abusive animal in the movie and even worse in real live (he kicked his pregnant wife in the stomach one time until she aborted). Again, a masterpiece. So, you can make a compelling movie about a character who was a monster to others. And with Soderberg at the helm, I can't wait to see it. The guy is nothing if not daring and inventive. Whenever anybody says that the guy has gone mainstream, or doesn't take chances anymore, have you guys seen Bubble?
Great review? by King_Knut	Sep 12th, 2008 03:01:20 AM
Where can I find one? This pandering pap wasn't it. "Great actors show, don't tell" - OK, so the actor decides not to follow the script? Knob off. Talking of Benicio "inhibiting" the role: even without the amusing Freudian slip, have you seen footage of Che? By the sounds of his "low-key" performance, Benicio is nothing like him. If you want to watch a seriously good Che film, watch The Motorcycle Diaries.
4-1/2 hrs, right by Rich Malone	Sep 12th, 2008 03:23:25 AM
So will this be released as one film, or two? Intermission?
Re: Straight To Hell by Srikar	Sep 12th, 2008 03:57:55 AM
I loved it when you wrote: "Hitler, Stallin, Mussolini, Chaushesku, Kim Jung, Castro, Chaves, Puttin (who is well on his way to putting Mother Russia back together). Every single one of these monsters spoke of liberating their people, and then ended up dehumanizing them and destroying them." The part about liberation rhetoric followed by dehumanizing and destructive actions made me think of George W(e'll be greeted as liberators) Bush. Also, Putin is not rebuilding the USSR. He's resurrecting the Russian Empire with himself as the new Czar. As bad as his domestic political moves have been, it does not justify the US increasing pressure on him via the missile shield on his border and our surrogates in Georgia slaughtering people in South Ossetia.
Che, Sinner? Saint? Both? Whatever. by Sgt.Steiner	Sep 12th, 2008 04:02:30 AM
I, personally, am interested in seeing the strategies involved in fighting a guerilla war played out. And if we are making lists of dictators, shouldn't be Battista be on there? Also, Oliver North is an asshole. Trying to use his uniform to cover up the fact that he is a criminal. Pathetic.
Postcards from the Rhine by ViktorBC	Sep 12th, 2008 04:05:13 AM
Maybe that will be the title of a nice little Hitler bio to go next to the Che DVD when it comes out. Later Mao and Stalin DVDs can complete the colection. If they want Castro to do commentary during the DVD, they better hurry up.
The review though... by ViktorBC	Sep 12th, 2008 04:06:23 AM
was very good.
Damn You Michael Bay by MCMLXXVI	Sep 12th, 2008 04:17:58 AM
Damn You Michael Bay
terrible review by mynemaborat	Sep 12th, 2008 04:23:07 AM
what terrible review... he just rambles on about about alot of nonsense... like del toro's great for the things he 'doesn't say'?... and i'm sick of hearing people defend a movie by saying 'but that's what the director was aiming for'... speed racer reviews were terrible for that... who cares if that's what the director was aiming to do, if it's shit it's shit and it just means that the whole conceptualisation was off to begin with
and what the fuck does this mean? by mynemaborat	Sep 12th, 2008 04:25:33 AM
"If anything, my love for this movie comes from HOW it was made, not necessarily WHAT it was about." are you serious??... ludicrous
Now that's what I call an erudite review...get this guy onboard! by KillaKane	Sep 12th, 2008 04:29:01 AM

mynameborat by VegasRon	Sep 12th, 2008 04:40:17 AM
crawl back in that you came from. Unless, of course, your mother is still servicing the royals. Then you're shit out of luck, mate.
+hole by VegasRon	Sep 12th, 2008 04:41:02 AM
i hate this site's lack of an edit button.
CHE HATERS: SUCK ON THIS!!! by vrui	Sep 12th, 2008 04:41:59 AM
First,before saying anything,read,learn history, stupid dumbasses.He was a guerilla fighter,in a revolution,in a war,of course there is going to be killing.Nobody is saying he´s a saint,but it is important to hang to his words and his ideas for a better world.I´m sure all those who hate and say bad shit about ché also voted for Bush (BIGGEST CRIMINAL IN HISTORY AFTER HITLER),fucking hypocrats.How about Vietnam? How about Allende in Chile? Should I keep going...? Stop jerking off so much to Palin and start learning something real...I hate all these fucking conservative traditionalist right wing religious fricks FUCKERS!!!
Harry, you should hire Chris. by depalma25	Sep 12th, 2008 05:08:11 AM
What a thoughtful review. Not only was it well written but it was profound and gave me more insight to this film than any other review I've read regarding Che. I love Soderbergh. When I say Bubble I was a film student. People often ask me now if I can whatch a film without thinking about the filmmaking process. Even when I was little I was always trying to find the artifice. Bubble was one of the few movies that transported me completeley into another world. The opening scene in Traffic did the same thing. I don't know if this happened with Sex, Lies and Videotape. I may have been too busy jacking off.
fuck, I should reread my comments... by depalma25	Sep 12th, 2008 05:09:42 AM
I was crazy with the typos.
vrui by DocPazuzu	Sep 12th, 2008 05:16:36 AM
"BIGGEST CRIMINAL IN HISTORY AFTER HITLER" Really, vrui? Even more than Stalin? Mao? Idi Amin? Pinochet? Bokassa? Pol Pot? Franco? Asshole.
vrui by MindWr4ith	Sep 12th, 2008 05:25:23 AM
Bystander #1 -Hey that guy just shot that little kid! Bystander #2 - But he has some good ideas on how to improve the world. Bystander #1 - BUT HE SHOT THE KID! Bystander #2 - trivial details just wait 40 years you'll see.
vegasron by mynemaborat	Sep 12th, 2008 05:49:38 AM
dont start crying vegas ron... i didn't like the review, deal with it
Funny how... by cowbellfever	Sep 12th, 2008 06:19:00 AM
there's almost as many people who consider him a villain as much as a hero! You don't see many people selling t-shirts with Stalin's or Hitler's face on them! And am I not right in saying that there's a film based on Herr Bush coming soon??? There'll about as many fans of W. as there are of Che. Personally, as long as a movie is/sounds interesting (to me!), I'll give it a chance (and I doubt I'll feel 'raped' if it turns out to be shit, unlike half the over-critics on this site).
borat by VegasRon	Sep 12th, 2008 06:23:11 AM
Maybe if your stupid fucking rambling post made any kind of sense I could be labelled "crying". You incoherent shitstain.
Olsen Twins_Fan by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 06:23:35 AM
With a name like "Olsen Twins_Fan", I think you kind of disqualify yourself on your own point about "grown-ups". And when if I'm saying I went through a Che phase around the time 'Traffic' came out, as I'd noted, clearly we're talking eight years ago, not "two"...
oh shit by VegasRon	Sep 12th, 2008 06:26:29 AM
CM gets NASTY. welcome to the cesspool, my friend.
mynemaborat by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 06:26:33 AM
I'd address your responses, but like Olsen Twins_Fan, I think your handle says just about all anybody needs to know about you and your cinematic sensibilities...
The Eskimo, VegasRon, depalma25, KillaKane by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 06:32:52 AM
Thanks to The Eskimo, VegasRon, depalma25, KillaKane for the kind feedback on the review!
"and what the fuck does this mean?" by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 06:48:25 AM
It means that I come from the school of thought that it is technique, not content, that makes a great film. That is why Hitchcock will always be my favorite director: "not what, but how". But as we've seen, Academy and lots of critics often pander towards content. How elle do you explain 'Ordinary People' beating 'Raging Bull', or 'Forrest Gump' topping 'Pulp Fiction'?
don´t hurt my feelings, please... by vrui	Sep 12th, 2008 06:51:22 AM
Just because I like Ché´s ideas does not mean I liked his methods.Bush is not worse than Stalin,Franco,Pinochet(backed by the US government),etc..,he´s just as bad.Once you cross the line all these FUCKERS have crossed it doesn´t matter how far you are from the line.And yes,of course I think it´s okay for Ché to shoot kids- what stupid fucking people-a lot of kids (unfortunately) have died in history, are dying now, and will continue to die, but like you we´ll just keep in mind the image of the kid that you say he killed.And for all those vrui lovers out there, here´s the latest one to the list of people that should be eaten by a shark without leaving a single particle of life: probably and unfortunately for the world, for history, and for the universe, the next vicepresident of the US, Bitch Sarah Palin, because you will (i hope to Buddah not) fuck up once again and vote this crazy crook from alaska, GOD HELP YOU ALL!!! Who´s next? Russia, China, Iran, N. Korea... when will you all learn over there?
"Obligatory Che Phase" by Darth Busey	Sep 12th, 2008 06:58:07 AM
My memory's a little hazy, but did that include the wearing of OP shirts, rolled up sweatpants, and spiked hair?
vrui, you scumbag. by DocPazuzu	Sep 12th, 2008 07:19:41 AM
You actually think there's no difference between Bush, Hitler and Stalin? Or Mao? Please explain how Bush, who I loathe by the way, is equal to the three biggest mass murderers in history -- Mao, Stalin and Hitler. While you're at it, perhaps you can explain why there is no difference between children who are accidentally killed in collateral damage and walking up to a child and shooting him or her to death in cold blood.
by the way, vrui... by DocPazuzu	Sep 12th, 2008 07:22:57 AM
....where is this "line" drawn that you speak of beyond which there is no nuance?
vrui says "kids die all the time" by Thrillho77	Sep 12th, 2008 08:02:39 AM
Yet he probably thinks worse of Bush because he perpetrated a war where a bunch of innocent people died. Hey vrui! People die all the time!!! Wooo hooo!!!
He made up the line by Thrillho77	Sep 12th, 2008 08:03:42 AM
Or it's a line of some really shitty coke he did.
CHEINO! CHEINO! by chrth	Sep 12th, 2008 08:14:22 AM
He should be played by Banderas and he should be singing! Yeah just one blast and the tear gas falls like rain!
vegasron and CM by mynemaborat	Sep 12th, 2008 08:33:01 AM
for gods sake vegasron, how bout you do something a little more constructive than trolling on here trying to pick fights... if you liked the review, fine, say so and then move on. what do u really get out of reading through these talkbacks and then mouthing off at people? and CM, i appreciate your response, i know what your saying. i thought you meant you value style over substance, ala 300.
AICN needs more reviewers like this guy... by Pdorwick	Sep 12th, 2008 08:51:08 AM
...wonderfully, concisely written with no juvenile, clumsy or ridiculous sexual metaphors; finally, an adult!
Thanks mynemaborat by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 08:52:04 AM
Thanks man! And if we can agree on one thing, I hope it is that we are on the same page about '300' sucking. But that is a whole other talk for a whole other talkback!
Thanks Pdorwick by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 08:52:50 AM
Thank you for the kind words! Cheers.
Yeah, really good review by Leopold Scotch	Sep 12th, 2008 08:57:59 AM
Best I've seen on here in a while. I'm not surprised about all the positive feedback, even though that's so unusual on here. I fell sorry for Ché: I mean all the poor guy wanted to do was travel around selling his excellent T-shirts, and he ended up tortured for it... Seriously though, I'd really like to see this. I'll have to look for a UK release date.
Thanks Leopold Scotch by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 09:38:53 AM
Thanks for the words Leopold! I have to admit, I thought writing a review on here would be akin to throwing myself to the sharks, but all you talkbackers have been really thoughtful in your responses, and I can't thank everyone enough!
uhhhh.....so basically this is like Nic Cage's Next? by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD	Sep 12th, 2008 09:44:41 AM

Nice review. by R_Sammy	Sep 12th, 2008 10:05:03 AM
It sounds like CM watches movies the way I do and I am excited to see this. Soderberg is always interesting. I love when he does his own cinematography like on Solaris and Traffic. If you missed it you should check out K Street. It is a short lived tv show that Soderberg directed that shows an improvised semi-documentary view of D.C. with actors and a fictional story that weaves in an out of the real world politics and politicians. Each episode was made and aired in just a few days and took place the week it aired. Like most of his work there are a few missteps, but its mostly excellent.
traffic is terrible by LORDRANDO	Sep 12th, 2008 10:10:53 AM
overdone, melodrama, one good performance and a lot of cavalier attitudes about the truth of addiction. It tried to tell too many sides of the story, and while I know thats the point its unsuccessful. And his name was ERNESTO, not Ernest goes to Cuba.
I saw part one yesterday... it was BLAH! by abigblueball	Sep 12th, 2008 10:29:54 AM
It's totally underwhelming. This film is supposed to be about what it was like to be 'around' Che, you say? Well the camera is hardly even on Che. There's one scene at a NY gathering that is focused on his underling eating grapes. The relationship between Che and Castro felt like two boring dudes who met at a party and non chalantly say 'lets start a revolution'. John Lennon sang it better than this. There's no depth between Che and Castro. I will say the ending battle to take over cuba was well done...but the overall direction made me yearn for what Terence Malick would have done with this material. I have a ticket for part two today, but I have no real desire to go. Anyone want my ticket?
"Hey, nice Che shirt fuckstick. How about a punch in the face?" by Stuntcock Mike	Sep 12th, 2008 11:05:31 AM
Roger Ebert's actual reaction to a fellow "critic"
LORDRANDO by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 11:09:34 AM
Haha that made me laugh. My bad. I rattled the review off at work, and didn't really read it over before sending it. I like that though, "Ernest Goes To Cuba".
Cuba by GilbertRSmith	Sep 12th, 2008 11:34:52 AM
You know... shit. It kind of irks me when kids idolize Che because like, I know people who are actually from Cuba, who lost family and friends. People who fought and killed Castro's men. It's not like wearing a V for Vendetta shirt. The Cuban Communist revolution isn't fiction, it's not a cool underground rock band you can be in on if you're hip enough. You can't say "The Cuban communist revolution used to be cool, but on their second album, they sold out, bro!". To this day, people are being tortured and murdered in Cuba over political agendas going back to Che.
abigblueball by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 11:40:23 AM
Well, it is like I was very careful to point out: people will either love it, or they'll hate it. And I don't think anybody would be wrong for feeling either way on the subject.
Che's a youth icon mainly cuz of his "look". by StanGrossman	Sep 12th, 2008 01:29:38 PM
Seriously, the last couple of generations awareness of the man comes mainly from the t-shirts. And the t-shirts became popular because the guy was handsome in a dark, Chris Cornell kind of way. If he happened to be ugly, the t-shirts never would've become hip, and most people would've never heard of him (even now, a lot of people wearing the t-shirts know nothing about him beyond his name). You do have to appreciate the irony that a man who loathed American capitalism has a capitalist commodity to thank for his lasting fame.
gotta love it - classic debate strategy by Charlie_Allnut	Sep 12th, 2008 01:39:12 PM
change the topic - Instead of talking about Che the mass murderer change the topic to Bush or Ollie North.
this looks/sounds really fucking boring. by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD	Sep 12th, 2008 03:35:04 PM

Re: "this looks/sounds really fucking boring." by CM1986	Sep 12th, 2008 04:11:43 PM
So don't see it...
CM1986 by DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD	Sep 12th, 2008 04:34:25 PM
I won't!!
I love how all these Che bashers by hst666	Sep 12th, 2008 05:07:08 PM
are completely ignorant of the man's history other than a few things they heard over the years and feel OK bashing supporters as ignoranyt t-shirt consumers.
Straight to Hell by hst666	Sep 12th, 2008 05:10:22 PM
Why don't you add all the brutal dictators that the US has supported over the years? Or do they only register when they are Red. I assume you despise McCain for his "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran" comment as well.
StanGrossman by hst666	Sep 12th, 2008 05:13:43 PM
And people were tortured and killed before Castro as well. There's a reason they were successful. The government put greed for foreign money over the needs of its people. Of course, once in power Castro's Megalomania quickly turned him over to the dark side.
LORDRANDO by BadMrWonka	Sep 12th, 2008 07:26:34 PM
hold it right there.....hold it.....hoooold it...perfect! thanks, got it! (I take pictures of complelte fucking idiots for my scrapbook...filing you under "doesn't get complicated movies, but talks about them anyway")
DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD by the9points	Sep 12th, 2008 07:42:40 PM
'86. Kudos. A fine review. This hasn't featured too prominently on my radar until now but you've added it to my list. Top five films? Danny, what makes it look/sound really fucking boring - in your opinion?
I hate Che, I know history and I am a Liberal. by Dirk Shocker	Sep 13th, 2008 02:17:37 AM
So suck on it. You cant stand it when someone comes out and dislikes Che ... Why? You instantly come out saying " pick up a book, don't be ignorant ". You dumb fucks! Why can't a guy like me express my opinion about the man without being judged as ignorant? As a matter of fact, the majority of the Che t-shirt wearing people who I've encountered don't know shit about him. It's just fucking fashion statement for them. Have the fucking balls to tell a man who went through hell to come to the States from Cuba that Che was a just man. He might have started meaning well but the fucking guy became blood thirsty. DON'T FORGET IT.
Casting makes interesting by LeftFoot	Sep 13th, 2008 06:33:04 AM
Benicio Del Toro as Che? Regardless of what you think of Che. Del Toro as Che immediately gets my interest. Sometimes the powers that be get the casting just right.
Dirk by jmyoung666	Sep 13th, 2008 10:36:19 PM
Isn't Castro more to blame for Cuba than Che? Che was gone pretty early on.
jmyoung by Dirk Shocker	Sep 14th, 2008 04:38:43 AM
That's true, but if you hang out with your boys you are like your boys. You know what I mean? Shit would have been the same or maybe even worst if he had stayed. It's a known fact that the man was feared for a reason.

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Toronto: Chris has seen Soderbergh's epic two-parter... CHE starring Benicio!

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