Tell me... why should anyone care what the creator of failed TV series has to say about politics?

the same on the GOP side of things, it doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on, you're going to critize the other side and it's stupid, towing the party line

McCain and biden are the "old school" Obama has "148 days" of sente experience, Palin has 1 1/2 years of governing a state

I hate to say this AICN but is the reason you're posting this to generate hits, how about we ask one of the 3 conservetives in Hollywood what they think (I suggest Tom Selleck [who played the lead in the TNT adaption of Joe Klein's "The Running Mate"]) he's about as qualifed as this guy is

in most (if not all states) the Gov. gets very little breaks, serves almost the entire time she is elected

whatever your, um, interesting take on things is, the fact of the matter is that McCain and camp either have to share the stage with Bush at their convention (and his less than 30% approval rating) or they have to explain his absence. (I'll bet they send him to Florida). either way, if you think McCain will get as much of a bump after that mess as Obama does after giving a rousing and almost universally admired speech, you're not too quick on the trigger.

and the first time the Alaskan Mayor debates Joe Biden, it's done.

Sorry kiddo. McCain just sealed his own fate with this ridiculous VP pick.

if the Russians ever invade, she'll lead her five kids into the wilderness and attack them Red Dawn-style!

Wolverines!

1) that we haven't built a fuckin nuke reactor in how many freakin years??? Yes, nuke. It fucking works.

2) that stupid ass Bush made such a big deal about corn based ethanol, which was NEVER going to solve the energy situation, that food prices have jumped dramatically in the last couple of years

3) that we are not offering crazy incentives for development of alternative energy solutions that actually work (high efficiency solar, window covering solar, tide-based energy capture, self-generating hydrogen stations, and so on ...)

Governor Sarah Palin has nearly as much experience as that cynical-liberal candidate owned by the far left, Barack Hussein Obama.

Actually, if you count "executive" experience, she has even more experience that the liberal senator from Chicago. Obama has shown up to Washington a few times to vote, but for the most part, he prides himself as being a "Washington outsider." How is Governor Palin any different?

Sigh.

It really isn't "tolerance" when you only tolerate those who support your own liberal views. There is no room for diversity in the Democratic Party -- no matter how much the party of slavery and Jim Crowe try to make it appear. But keep humping the leg of Barack Obama. If you hump fast enough, you might just get that rushing political orgasm that you seek.

...and 3 yr in office Senator Obama will thank you for it.

Now that noted political analyst Rod Lurie has criticized the pick, look for George Will and Charles Krauthamer to line up behind Obama.

I really liked Sarah Palin in A Fish Called Wanda.

look, pretty soon we'll have a gallup poll with both VP candidates in play, and with both conventions done. and when that happens, Obama will be up by 10 points, and as soon as EITHER the main or VP debates happens, it will be completely over.

that's my 2 cents. call me a nutcase if you like, but you better show up to the "Barack Obama wins the presidency" talkback, and eat some crow if he wins big. if he wins, but just slightly, I'l eat the crow, and we can all hug and be thankful he won at all!

McCain stole all the thunder from Obama when he thought he was going to coast to the throne. Women who watched the Dems diss Hillary Clinton's 18 million supporters in favor of an sausagefest ticket suddenly have someone to vote for. McCain will only serve one term meaning Palin could run for Prez in 2012. Hillary must be throwing more lamps than usual!

Rod Lurie's problem with Palin is that she isn't an extreme liberal like him. He knows his party is sexist and can't stand that the Republicans are prepared to put a woman in high office when the Dems wouldn't. The whole meme was "Dems care about minorities and women" but when push came to shove, they ran for the old while guy (Biden is 66) and to hell with the chicks. Too funny.

Revenge is a bitch, isn't it?

if all he has is "Obama's too young, not enough experience, etc." and he's 72 years old and his VP is younger AND less experienced than Obama, I don't see how they can do anything but fizzle out.

THAT BEING SAID, I have been a democrat for my whole life, and I have learned to NEVER underestimate the Dems' ability to fuck their own shit up. holy hell, the face we couldn't take the white house back in 2004 was sad enough. I am optimistic (clearly) and I think everything is going really well, and I'm excited. but I ain't popping the champagne until mid november when Obama gives his victory speech.

Somewhere in Denver, Al Gore shit his pants too.

Tell me that, I DARE you.

Oh yeah, Democrat majority in congress.

Get your head out of your ass.

Wow...

As for her experience vs. Obama's, think about it:

Palin is 44 years old.

She has to be ready to take the Office at a moment's notice should something happen to McCain.

She's pro-life and a Bible thumper.

She's been governor of a state of approx. 600,000 people for less than 2 years. (That's hardly managing a state the likes of New York, Texas, Virginia, or California.)

Before that, she was mayor of a town of only 6,000 folks.

She has no Congressional - federal experience.

She has no foreign policy experience whatsoever. (Yes, Biden will mop the floor with her on this issue.)

Meanwhile, she supports oil drilling in ANWR. (And if I had to put money down, I'd say this was a huge factor in McCain's decision. Because who has more "authority" on this potential fuel-source subject than the governor of Alaska?)

From what I've read so far, she sounds like a nice, intelligent woman. A fighter. But this just screams "bizarre token choice" by McCain. And considering Obama's magnificent performance last night, McCain hasn't made it any easier on himself by doing this; his work is definitely cut out for him. So, while I conceed that anything can happen between now and the election, with this VP pick, it may very well be that McCain just handed the Presidency to Obama on a silver platter.

But Obama's strength seems to come from his judgment and the fact that he genuinely fucking cares. So, there is a distinction here - it was the people who picked Obama as their candidate seemingly for this reason (experience or not). But it was McCain that personally picked Palin seemingly out of a hat(experience or not). And considering McCain's track-record as of late, that doesn't exactly instill a lot of confidence especially when you think that she could be left whistling in the wind should something dire happen to him.

Conversely, I found this quote by Palin (apparently made a month ago) quite interesting:

“As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?" -- Yikes!

Also, drilling in ANWR can be seen as nothing more than a concession to the big oil companies while hiding behind a dubious smokescreen of price gouging/corruption investigations. If big oil gets what it wants, then I've little doubt they will throw their weight behind the obliging candidate.

"I'm a firm believer in knowing what you're doing when you apply for a job and I think that if I were to seriously consider running on a national ticket, I would essentially have to start now, before having served a day in the Senate. Now, there may be some people comfortable doing that, but I'm not one of those people."

-Barack Obama, 2004 (Upon asked whether or not he'd run for President in 2008)

Cheap tactics may work for the lunatic right, but even the lunatic left knows to keep their eye on the ball.

running this state for a year qualifies you to run a country like playing Counter Strike for a year qualifies me to be shipped off to Iraq.

and before you start whining about Obama, please just realize that this whole "Executive" experience is 90% about foreign policy and the management of the US's place in the world. and Palin has NO experience in doing that.

she majored in journalism, Obama in political science with an emphasis on foreign relations. (McCain majored in getting bad grades and adding to his disciplinary record, but that's neither here nor there).

in her one ACTUAL piece of functional governing in Alaska, when she cancelled the bridge to nowhere, she whined all the way through her public statement and never actually admitted that the bridge was a horrendous waste of over 300 million dollars in the middle of an economic crisis.

look, all points aside, can we PLEASE stop saying, "1 year of executive experience!!!" as if that ends the argument. running Alaska, and running it through mediocrity and half-measures, does not trump ANYTHING.

AND THE REAL POINT HERE IS THIS: look at what we're doing? we're already comparing her to Obama, NOT JOE BIDEN...because if we did that...seriously? I mean, seriously? running alaska for a year? how abotu Joe Biden has been in the senate since he was 28, and has as much foreign relations experience as virtually anyone in the senate.

conservatives are REALLY having to scramble to make any logical argument that picking Palin was anything other than a stupid and unsuccessful attempt to grab more votes. and it's a dangerous and disgraceful thing to do when you're main candidate is elderly and has had major health problems.

you all must see that, right? I mean come on...Alaska?

http://tinyurl.co m/5fmgaa

I could point out that Arkansas saw tremendous growth under Clinton, or that it's a MUCH more important state than Alaska (it's consistently in the top 10 for business growth, best states for small business, etc.) but that's beside the point.

my point (that you clearly missed) was that executive experience does not, and SHOULD NOT trump other types of experience, INCLUDING education and legislative experience.

I mean, wouldn't you rather take Joe Biden's 30 years in the senate over 1 year managing 600,000 people in the tundra?

if we were talking about New York, or California, maybe, but come on...

people touting that are grasping at straws because there's nothing else to grasp at with Palin but air...

and her 2 ongoing ethics investigations are going to be a big boost to the ticket, lol

I was looking forward to the never ending gag reel that would be a Romney VEEP campaign.

Oh well, at least we won't have to listen to the shrill wailing of "Obama's not experienced!" anymore.

And Kudos for McCain's amazing eyesite even though he's 72. Most people failed to spot the massive groundswell of "Palin for VEEP" joyfull enthusiasm in the Republican Party, but no doubt it was just keeping respectfully quiet and well hidden.

Odkin: HELL YES!

Sizzler: She will also cross the stage and kick him in the balls.

She has just as much experience, and probably more balls, than Obama. McCain both solidified his core, and made the Democrat's attacks completely ineffectual.

By the way, what the hell is this story doing on AICN? Some attempt to dig up a movie-related tie-in to get a dig against Palin? Unprofessional, guys.

or that....New York is comparable to Alaska?

next you'll tell me the war in Iraq is going swimmingly and Lost just keeps getting better and better...

bottom line, as soon as we have the debates, it's done. you can argue flash vs. substance all you want, but I didn't here conservatives complaining about it when Reagan was up there. the door swings both ways. conservatives nominated a 72 year old stodgy white guy who stutters. liberals nominated a 47 year old good-looking, well spoken african american.

that's the ballgame. if you hate it, then fine, I understand, and I don't begrudge anyone saying, "Well, that's not how it should be". maybe you're right. but that doesn't change the fact that as soon as these 2 are on a stage together, McCain will implode. and unless Innuit votes count for 100,000 apiece, Palin is NOT going to help him.

so instead of putting the onus on me, how about you tell me why Palin is so great? (and bear in mind, I am not a member of the NRA (as she is), I'm not for teaching creationism in schools (as she is), I don't want a CONSTITUTIONAL BAN on gay marriage (as she is) and I am not pro-life (as she is). the reason I mention all of this is that the main argument for her is that she is going to suck all of Hillary's supporters form Obama. and they all pretty much disagree with everything Palin says.

your witness.

I thought his ability to take Michigan was a factor but his clear lack of MILFness was obviously far more telling. The Republicans are certainly setting the bar as high as they can with that kind of rigorous qualification. Hillary voters will flock over in droves now.

Yes, I personally think he was a disaster prone gagfest but you could see the logic of his choice Electorally speaking and for the campaign coffers and grass roots.

Palin is completely leftfield.

The mad rush of News Anchors to find out who the hell she was by jumping on Wikipedia was probably only matched by surprised Republicans doing the same.

She. Is. A. Gamble. If it pays off McCain will be hailed a Genius but if it doesn't... well I notice that there are some loud voices from McCains campaign stressing again and again how this was such a PERSONAL choice of McCains. I sense some disgruntled or at least worried staffers and Republican old hands wondering if this is really the time for such a massive gamble.

here's the link: http://tinyurl.com/2q9j9y

1) Most natural rhythm dance-off.

2) 3-Point Basketball competition.

3) Biggest penis competition.

There you go, a non-partisan event, that is 100% fair, and would be a much better media event than a boring vote.

There, my job should be done, I should have pissed off everybody, from every side, with that post.

http://tinyurl.com/2q9j9y

That lasted for a good few days, even a few weeks... but then...

We'll see.

Dee Jay, have you been in a cave, brother? google "rick roll" and look at the wikipedia entry

you haven't taken me up on my bet yet, but let me ask you a question

Sen. Obama's whole campagin is about the new, not the same old same old, he has accused McCain's choice of Palin as more of Bush's same policies when it's really a out of left (or would it be right) field moves, that noone expected when Obama chooses Joe Biden, a man who's been serving by your admission since age of 28! That's a lifetime in the Senate, and this man voted for the War and has done some of the same.

Sure Palin may be a savvay political move, but isn't Biden just as political of move? It's a choice that is really as strange, I"m still hearing Obama supporters who are baffaled at the choice of Biden

on a personal note, I've never heard of this Palin chick before, I honestly thought Obama was going to go with Kathleen Sebilus of Kansas (my home state) and McCain was going to go with Rommney, both choices have shocked and surprised me

as a Republican I really hope that this choice is a smart choice and Palin doesn't become Quyale v.2

Meanwhile, McCain's advisors are all former/current Bush advisors. So while McSame may be just a silly label, it is - unfortunately - apt.

A United Front and meaningful action from NATO and Europe might but that takes Diplomacy.

the laughable argument about Palin's "executive" experience (congrats, you only have 600,000 constituents, and you still managed 2 ethics scandals) are really just straw man arguments because by any reasonable measure, she is woefully underprepared. and Biden has been a senator for 28 years, and the entire time he has fought for the working poor, and principles that most democrats agree with. he's also the poorest member of the senate in terms of net worth. ie, he doesn't take pork!

the point is, Palin is a big gamble, but even with a big gamble, the risk vs. reward should be comparable. if I put a hundred on one number in roulette, it's bad odds, but if I win, I win big. here, all roads lead to either a victory, or a loss. going out on a limb like this, with no discernible boost, is crazy.

and watch the polls in the next couple weeks. watch what happens...

just scroll up, ignoring the actual posts, and read the talkbacker names...that alone should tell you the level of seriousness here. yeah we talk about politics, but a RickRoll here and there is fair game. 28 million people can't be right.

Sarah Palin, Larry Craig, Marc Foley, Karl Rove, George Bush (as evidence, albeit circumstantial, I cite Jeff Gannon's 32 off-hours visits to the White House).

If all "change" means is not taking cock up the ass in Washington, then that's all it takes for me to vote Obama/Biden. (Genuine gays excepted)

You can always tell when Republitards are scared cuz they start telling even bigger lies.

Will be a lot of fun this weekend though, watching the right-wing talking heads on the shows try and sell this crazy Christian fundie fishwife--who apparently has never heard of such a thing as birth control and teaches Creationism--as just a super pick for VP.

Now, I don't really care about political experience (I might even prefer my president to be fresh out of the private sector). But the truth is that Palin and Obama have roughly the same amount of it: Not a lot. Trying to narrow it down more than that is picking nits.

Not only does that show an incredible paucity in judgment on McCain's part, it opens up some fairly remarkable possibilities of skeletons being pulled from her closet. We'll see how this turns out.

The surge is temporary (look the word up if you don't believe me) and was meant to use any relative stability gained or Political progress.

There has been none.

The Kurds are still pushing for full autonomy and laying a Legal claim to the Northern Oilfields that will have the Shia coming after them sooner or later if they keep it up.

The Kurds are also still skirmishing with Turkey (who will never accept Kurdish autonomy) via PKK terrorists and Turkish Military incursions into Iraq.

The Shia are entrenching the teritorial gains made when the Death Squads and Militias were in full ethnic cleansing mode not so long ago, by using their Militias on the ground as well as the Police and army that have been thoroughly infiltrated by them to enforce Sharia Law and Tribal fiefdoms.

Moqtada Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army fanatics have just signed "blood oaths" to keep fighting U.S. forces till they leave and they control most of the 5 Million Sadr City.

Iran backs various Shia factions and any political moves made by the fairly irrelevant Governing Authority in the Green Zone which is overwhelmingly Shia anyway.

The Sunnis have retreated into their ethnic enclaves and despite helping the American Troops destroy most of the small faction of Al-Qaeda that was still active recently suffered a devastating loss when a suicide bomber killed a crucial U.S. Allied Sunni leader.

Saudi Arabia is threatening to send in masses of arms and even fighters into the Sunni enclaves if things don't improve via reconstruction efforts in Sunni areas instead of predominantly Shia ones as well as the Police and Army being mistrusted because of Shia infiltration.

And Women suicide bombers are now shockingly commonplace.

Because the main News Networks are All election All the time doesn't mean everything is going great in Iraq. It means they aren't reporting it.

But doing it by tying it to such a stupid comment about a meaningless Hollywood nobody who is already committed to the opposing candidate is just sloppy and juvenile. It doesn't even help their cause, because the LAST thing the left needs is _more_ juvenile support.

I'm really disgusted. Especially by all the fatalistic "Nostradamuses" who can foresee the future and "know" that McCain will die in office. That's gonna be the argument now? Seriously? {This is not coming from my political views but from that small measure of humanity that I believed that everyone possessed and I hope I never lose.}

My bastard children, you truly are bastards.

The V.P. is as important as the President chooses to make him or her. The V.P. will also be the second highest profile campaigner till November and is usually the attack-dog. It's also a guide to how key postitions might be staffed once in office since it is the first meaningfull "hire".

Has to be said though Electorally speaking the last one to make a huge difference was considered to be JFK picking Lyndon B Johnson.

No they haven't. Assert away; I can assert back. The public has done no such thing. Her experience is comparable to Obama's... several years of service at the city level, a year or two in the big leagues. In fact, the "general public" just nominated Obama this week, which was a big signal that lack of experience was perfectly OK with them. Conclusion? Palin's lack of experience, similar to Obama's, will not be an issue.

Except to frantic, somewhat nervous, Democrats.

And Obama did ...what... in Chicago? Organized neighborhoods? Palin at least had an actual job.

But are you quite sure all in the Republican Party are quite so happy to see it neutralized as an issue ?

I repeat, remember the fate of Harriet Miers.

Here's the bottom line comparison. Palin starts her political career in community service...Obama starts his career in community service. Palin gets to be mayor of a town and at least gets hands on executive experience...Obama gets to be Congressman for a district and deals with the concept of law, but once again doesn't actually DO anything. I'm serious. His fucking Congressional record is EMPTY. Nada. Not one accomplishment. Meanwhilw Palin gets elected and serves her first 2 years as Governor and once again gets hands on executive experience, has great public approval ratings, actually cleans up government in the state...meanwhile the geeky looking guy with his lips planted on Oprah's fat ass so he'll get extra, extra good TV coverage gets elected for the first time to the Senate, where he promptly does NOTHING proving that his prior worthlessness in Congress was not a coincidence.

In fact, there in lies the honest truth that Libs and the DNC are going to have to own up to by November. Palin has actually spent the last 2 years running a state, meanwhile Obama has spent the last 3 years of his first term in the Senate promoting...yes...Barack Obama for President.

Seriously, I hate to be overtly right wing here, but Barack Obama is a walking joke. He's an empty suit who decided he would just skip his way to the Presidency without actually DOING anything and just coast on a big ass empty grin and media coverage, who have been so biased and in the tank for him that it's embarrassing now for 90% of the current newscasters to even call themselves "journalists" given the easy ride they've given this guy every step of the way.

Oh, and one more thing: anyone Leftist who thinks Obama would be better suited to sit across from the leaders of Iran (for example) versus Palin is really going to have to pull some serious bullshit out of their ass to explain WHAT makes him more worthy than her to sit with any world leader when he's done NOTHING in his career when you realistically compare his resume to hers.

secondly, I know many of you HATE Mike Huckabee, but I'm going to paraphrase wht he said tonight (and what others both Dems and GOP have said), you learn more about governence in one month of being goverment then a year of serving in the senete. Why? Because you actually serve, every minute of every day, decisions have to be made, sometimes in split seconds, legislation has to be read and approved, Senators and Congressmen don't have to vote on every issue that comes up, dont have to attend every meeting, every debate, etc, this is best refrenced by Sen. Obama's 140+ days of ACTUALLY BEING IN THE SENETE, and technically he hasn't served four years, he'll be coming up on 4 years, but he hasn't technically served 4 years, but out of his 3 1/2 or so years, he's served anywhere from 143-148 days, approx. 5 months worth of actually time spent in committees, debating, and voting and has not introduced or authored even 1 piece of legitmate legistation

he has spent more time campagining for president then actually serving in the senate

now I know this isn't Palin vs Obama, this is about is Palin qualified to lead the nation, as a Republican, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's a wise smart, savvay move on McCain's part, she is REASONABLY qualified, she has made improvements and fought corruption in Alaskan REPUBLICAN politics, she's an outsider who most have never heard of, she's a govenor, which is where McCain's strictest primary fighting came from

from the GOP side of the aisle, let me tell you, it's a gutsy move but really who else was he going to get

Romney has waffeled on issues too much

Huckabee is too conservetive for the middle of the road voters

Ridge too liberal

same with Gulaini

the Minn. Gov. whose name escapes me was too...meh

Palin fits into McCain's image as a maverick, she's consvertive enough for the social right wing (pro-gun, pro-life) but she's also way outside Washinginton and has fought corruption and rose up from nothing which appels to moderates leaning right

she isn't going to pick up very many new votes, but neither will Biden, the next real step is the debates

I'm looking forward to watching THOSE, but I'm disappointed that Obama wouldn't take place in any townhall meetings, personally it makes him look weak and continues to fuel the accusations that Obama can't make a speech without a teleprompter, that he relays on his speechwriters/prepared remarks too much

Well, Alaskans might know, but do they have the internet up there?

one an unrealted note, after watching Keith Olberman tonight, I finally understand why you, my liberal friends, get so pissed at O'Reilly. I think both are cut in that "attack first, attack last" style who only know their side and aren't open to anything else...both of them remind me of angry talkbackers who just yell and scream and stamp their feet

BTW how come the pick was such a surprise and shock if she was really such an obvious and great choice ?

It's a GAMBLE. You know it. I know it and you can be sure those at the top of the Republican Party will have reminded McCain that THEY know it. Particularly if it doesn't work.

In fact, let's be totally honest here. The whole POINT of Bill's speech (which everyone on the Left applauded and stomped their feet and praised) was to say to the world, "They all thought a first time governor from a small state wasn't qualified to be President. That he couldn't learn on the job. But I think I did more than okay and I'm telling you Barack Obama will do just as well as the next President of the United States!" Yep, that was Bill's WHOLE selling point.

But gee, what a shock. Suddenly Palin is in the equation and the first thing Libs are saying is that her inexperience means she isn't qualified to sit in the SECOND chair -- yet as I said before ironically Obama's inexperience qualifies him to sit in the First chair. Nice logic you got going there!

Of course, you Libs could turn around and admit that Clinton was WRONG about everything he said in his speech and just admit that he got up there and lied his ass off to the American people to pull one over on them. But hey, what am I saying? That would only be par for the course since we ARE talking about Bill Clinton.

The closest precedent has to be Mondale's choice of Ferraro, a virtually unknown NY Congresswoman but really that race was doomed from the beginning, even Ferraro will admit that know, they were what, almost 20, 30 points behind Regan when Mondale nominated her, I've never heard of a race this close, where such a big gamble has been taken, Biden was the safe sure choice for Obama (a mistake I still say, he should have gone with Sebilius [an almost Hillary like clone who managed to capture the governship of a Republican state who was an Obama supporter])

the safe sure choice for McCain would have been Pawltry (or however you spell his name, the Minn gov) or Rommney, but McCain went full out, this is almost like, at least to me, Babe Ruth pointing to the stands before ever seeing a pitch, now we'll see if McCain can pull off a Ruth and actually hit it where he points or strike at like Casey at Bat

The closest precedent has to be Mondale's choice of Ferraro, a virtually unknown NY Congresswoman but really that race was doomed from the beginning, even Ferraro will admit that know, they were what, almost 20, 30 points behind Regan when Mondale nominated her, I've never heard of a race this close, where such a big gamble has been taken, Biden was the safe sure choice for Obama (a mistake I still say, he should have gone with Sebilius [an almost Hillary like clone who managed to capture the governship of a Republican state who was an Obama supporter])

the safe sure choice for McCain would have been Pawltry (or however you spell his name, the Minn gov) or Rommney, but McCain went full out, this is almost like, at least to me, Babe Ruth pointing to the stands before ever seeing a pitch, now we'll see if McCain can pull off a Ruth and actually hit it where he points or strike at like Casey at Bat

It's not even that she's clearly almost totally unknown with no national campaign track record.

It's that any Republican trying to use the "he's not ready" excuse for Obama is going to look incredibly stupid or desperate now.

Well that and the fact that Hillary voters are obviously not going to suddenly turn anti-abortion so the "strategy" is to say the least "curious".

This choice DOES remove Obama from the comment pages and headlines for a few days. But after that she's on her own as the second biggest megaphone for the McCain campaign while the Republicans will have to think of a new strategy that doesn't rely on calling Obama inexperienced every 5 minutes.

Gimme a fucking break. Such chest-thumping, tough guy jingo-istic words might have had some meaning and weight if they had actually came from a guy who had served in the military (which Obama was too chicken shit to do in comparison to McCain) AND if they weren't coming from a guy who has repeatedly voted against military appropriations to support our troops, not to mention if those words also weren't also coming from a buffoon who vocally stated again and again that he was against the Surge. Which by the way has clearly worked and yet Obama is STILL too much a spineless weasel to ADMIT it worked or to give proper credit to General Patreus or our troops overseas for its execution.

Oh, but that's right -- for Obama to acknowledge that the Surge worked he'd ALSO have to admit that he was against it all along, and thus admit that his Commander in Chief instincts are for shit. And it would mean that Obama would have to admit that HIS idea for an American military unit engaged in combat means dropping instantly your weapons and running with your hands over your heads like a squealing 2-year old as you retreat with your tail between your legs at all times.

Obama's cave reference was the low point of his candidacy so far. It was a truly LAUGHABLE line and a true cheap shot. Not to mention, if Obama is a senator...and McCain is a senator...and each has one vote in the Senate...just HOW the fuck does Obama figure that McCain somehow controls the military? That they're his chess pieces to push around, while Obama is left out in the cold with no say?

For crying out loud, could it possibly be any more clear that Obama is an inexperienced, ill-prepared, whiny little bitch? Then again maybe he's just mad that Oprah can't write a check and buy the Oval Office for him...

and yes that is a reference to...LBJ(?)'s comments on teh role of the VP amounting to nothing more then a big bucket of warm shit

One reason I cannot vote for Obama, he voted against a measure that would end the practice of live birth abortions in his state 3 times. Supporting infanticide is not a good quality, imo.

McCain's age shouldn't be as much of a factor as the dem's are making it. They're turning off many elderly voters, and they're the ones who vote more often than younger crowds. Besides, his mom is still alive and well past 90.

And yes, this will sway some Hillary supporters. I know at least two women who were pro-Hillary who will now be voting for McCain.

I still think that the dem's got way too nasty with each other in the primary, and gave so much ammunition to the rep's for why Obama is a bad candidate that it will be difficult to recover.

And you are quite correct Bloo Palin wasn't the only female candidate as Sebilius proves. Evan Bayh was also speculated about but Romney was the hot favourite and most thought McCain could swallow any obvious distatste he has for Mitt for the war chest, big name factor, grass roots support and Minnesota credentials.

Palins going to have to work incredibly hard to become a household name then a clear asset as being a woman simply won't be enough to coast through till November.

I think Obama was afraid Hillary would be undermining him at every turn (not saying she would or wouldn't, I"m just assuming this was his fear) and wasn't one of Obama's campagin themes in the primaries was that for the past 20 years we've had nothing but Bushs and Clintons

wow that's really kind of a scary thought

'terrorists demonized view of the american establishment'? What about democrats demonized view of the american establishment? Give me a break, you point of view is the dangerous view of appeasement. The democrats spewed the propaganda at their convention that America has lost its stature in the world, partly because of freeing Iraq. So, by that logic, so we can become 'liked' again in the international community, we should never have freed the people of Iraq. Perhaps calling it the Democrat Convention, instead of 'Democratic' is more accurate. Hardly a liberal stance in the true sense of the word. But a more glaring misunderstanding of the path to true peace is the democrats view that freeing a people will cause us to lose our stature in the eyes of the world. By freeing the Iraqi people, and doing it successfully, we are gaining substantive stature with the people who count: the common people of Iraq. Had we left those people to suffer under Saddam, as Clinton did, firing a few indiscriminate missiles every once in a while to wag the dog, our stature in that region and in the eyes of the world would have truly deteriorated, and more attacks like 9/11 would be occurring on our soil. If Obama had his way, as you heard all through the democrat convention, we should never have freed the people of Iraq and gave them a chance for democracy. Yet, terrorism internationally declined as the Iraqi war progressed, and the prediction made with certainty by every expert folling 9/11 of inevitable attacks to follow in our malls and coffee shops, hasn't happened. Coincidence? And what about Russia? They could care less about the color of the face of our President. What they care about are three letters: SDI.They would love Obama because he believes in a global utopia, and that we can love our enemies away, and that our superior missile defense technology only provokes them. Wrong. It's what brought them down, and keeps them in check. Peace through strength. McCain's mentality is correct for keeping this country secure against a nuclear power such as Russia, and inevitable nuclear powers that hate us. Whether the corrupt and evil leaders of other countries like us or hate us is irrelevant to whether or not they will attack us. To prevent their attacks, they have to know our willingness to defend ourselves and believe in our ability to do so. They have to believe we are sincere: sincere in our willingness to fight back, with force. Again, in substance, the democrats are anti-middle class, even with other countries. But it is with the newly free middle class of Iraq where our substantive stature with the people of that region , and the rest of the middle east and the world, will be built. Not with the corrupt leaders.

The same kind of brutal Sharia Law enacted by Iran and Saudi Arabia is now in almost total effect in Iraq because the shia hold the whip hand and they are almost completely allied to Iran and it's regional and religious goals while the Sunnis allegiance to Saudi Arabia is just as strong.

Women terrified to venture out of doors in fear of the militias and mullahs. Savage tribal punishments and executions meeted out by factional warlords who pay no more heed to the Green Zone Government than the militia infiltrated fledgling Police or Army do.

There is still no security because there is still no large scale functioning security force. Never mind a secular country wide Police or Army all sides can trust. So the dream of an aspiratioinal middle class is frankly laughable until the people have security and are unafraid to walk the streets.

But if we're talking about "mountains of dirt", let's talk about the Obama camp scrambling frantically now to either shore up or outright DESTROY documents regarding the fact that terrorist bomber William Ayers and Obama have in fact had a FAR closer relationship than Obama ever fessed up to.

Sniff! Sniff! What's that I'm smelling? Why, I believe it's the smell of Democrats quickly realizing Obama really was nothing more than a slick empty suit with a bad past and it was only a matter of time before everyone started to realize it. And now those chickens are comin' home to roost!

Oh wait, that sounds familiar. Maybe that's because it comes from another sack of shit friend of Obama's...

This is pretty funny. The Reps have no man who could stand up to Biden so they throw in a woman. Fucking pussies.

McCain miscalculated Biden by throwing the only woman he could find (3 weeks ago she didn't even know what the role of VP entails) against him. Well, Biden is a champion of women's rights and a devoted husband to a school teacher. It's not in him to attack Palin with male aggressiveness, and they only have 1 debate in which to meet.

Meanwhile he'll unleash a torrent of attacks on McCain while Palin will be defending the old man throughout. Meanwhile Palin has zero ammunition against Obama.

I know it's the role a right-winger to take the partisan support line for McCain, but looking at this objectively ... he made a messy, and cowardly decision. Romney, even Pawlenty, would have been better noms - if only to show a concern to bring the right leaders to the country and not just use a woman to win some marginal voter bloc.

Journalism Bachelor's degree

Runner-Up, Miss Alaska, 1984

TV Sports Reporter, 1988

Wasilla City Council, 1992-1996

Mayor of Wasilla, 1996-2002 (Town of 6000)

Governor of Alaska, December 2006-present (population 683,478)

OBAMA:

Columbia University, Majored in Political Science with a specialization in international relations

Worked 3 years in Chicago as a community organizer

J.D. Magnum cum Laude Harvard Law school

Editor and president of Harvard Law Review

Taught Constituitional law for 12 years at University of Chicago Law School

Worked as a civil rights attorney at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland for three years.

State Legislator for Chicago for 7 years

US senator for 4 years

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

25 addressed Energy Efficiency and Climate Change
Suspend royalty relief for oil and gas (115)
Reduce dependence on oil; use of alternative energy sources (133)
Increase fuel economy standards for cars (767, 768)
Auto industry incentives for fuel efficient vehicles (1151)
Reduce green house gas emissions (1324)
Establish at NSF a climate change education program (1389)
Increase renewable content of gasoline (2202)
Energy emergency relief for small businesses and farms (269)
Strategic gasoline and fuel reserves (1794)
Alternative diesel standards (3554)
Coal to liquid fuel promotion (3623)
Renewable diesel standards (1920)
Reducing global warming pollution from vehicles (2555)
Fuel security and consumer choice (1994, 2025)
Alternative energy refueling system (2614)
Climate change education (1389)
Low income energy assistance (2405)
Oil savings targets (339)
Fuel economy reform (3694)
Plug-in electric drive vehicles (1617)
Nuclear release notice (2348)
Passenger rail investment (294)
Energy relief for low income families (2405)

21 addressed Health Care
Drug re-importation (334)
Health information technology (1262, 1418)
Discount drug prices (2347)
Health care associated infections (2278)
Hospital quality report cards (692, 1824)
Medical error disclosure and compensation (1784)
Emergency medical care and response (1873)
Stem cell research (5)
Medical Malpractice insurance (1525)
Health centers renewal (901, 3771)
Children's health insurance (401)
Home health care (2061)
Medicare independent living (2103)
Microbicides for HIV/AIDS (823)
Ovarian cancer biomarker research (2569)
Gynological cancers (1172)
Access to personalized medicine through use of human genome (976)
Paralysis research and care (1183)

20 addressed Public Health:
Violence against women (1197)
Biodefense and pandemic preparedness and response (1821, 1880)
Viral influenza control (969)
End homelessness (1518)
Reduce STDs/unintended pregnancy (1790)
Smoking prevention and tobacco control (625)
Minority health improvement and disparity elimination (4024)
Nutrition and physical education in schools (2066)
Health impact assessments (1067, 2506)
Healthy communities (1068)
Combat methamphetamines (2071)
Paid sick leave (910)
Prohibit mercury sales (833, 1818)
Prohibit sale of lead products (1306, 2132)
Lead exposure in children (1811, 2132)

14 address Consumer Protection/Labor
Stop unfair labor practices (842)
Fair minimum wage (2, 1062, 2725, 3829)
Internet freedom (2917)
Credit card safety (2411)
Media ownership (2332)
Protecting taxpayer privacy (2484)
Working family child assistance (218)
Habeus Corpus Restoration (185)
Bankruptcy protection for employees and retirees (2092)
FAA fair labor management dispute resolution (2201)
Working families flexibility (2419).

13 addressed the Needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces:
Improve Benefits (117)
Suicide prevention (479)
Needs of homeless veterans (1180)
Homes for veterans (1084)
GI Bill enhancement (43)
Military job protection
Dignity in care for wounded vets (713)
Housing assistance for low income veterans (1084)
Military children in public schools (2151)
Military eye injury research and care (1999)
Research physical/mental health needs from Iraq War (1271)
Proper administration of discharge for personality disorder (1817, 1885)
Security of personal data of veterans (3592)

12 addressed Congressional Ethics and Accountability
Lobbying and ethics reform (230)
Stop fraud (2280)
Legislative transparency and accountability (525)
Open government (2180, 2488)
Restoring fiscal discipline (10)
Transparency and integrity in earmarks (2261)
Accountability of conference committee deliberations and reports (2179)
Federal funding accountability and transparency (2590)
Accountability and oversight for private security functions under Federal contract (674)
Accountability for contractors and personnel under federal contracts (2147)
Resctrictions awarding government contracts (2519)

10 addressed Foreign Policy:
Iraq war de-escalation (313)
US policy for Iraq (433),
Divestiture from Iran (1430)
Sudan divestment authorization (831)
Millennium Development Goals (2433)
Multilateral debt relief (1320)
Development bank reform (1129)
Nuclear nonproliferation (3131,977,2224).

9 address Voting/Elections
Prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections (453)
Voter access to polls and services in Federal elections (737)
Voter intimidation and deceptive practices (1975)
Senate campaign disclosure parity (185)
Require reporting for bundled campaign contributions (2030)
Election jamming prevention (4102)
Campaign disclosure parity (223)
Presidential funding (2412)
Integrity of electronic voting systems (1487)

11 addressed Education
Increase access of low income African Americans to higher education (1513)
Establish teaching residency programs (1574)
Increase early intervention services (2111)
Middle school curriculum improvements (2227)
Public database of scholarships, fellowships and financial aid (2428)
Summer learning programs (116)
TANF financial education promotion (924)
Higher education (1642)
Build capacity at community colleges (379)
Campus law enforcement in emergencies (1228)
Support for teachers (2060).

6 addressed Hurrican Katrina
Hurricane Katrina recovery (2319)
Emergency relief (1637)
Bankruptcy relief and community protection (1647)
Working family tax relief (2257)
Fair wages for recovery workers (1749)
Gulf coast infrastructure redevelopment (1836)

5 addressed the Environment
Drinking water security (218, 1426)
Water resources development (728)
Waste water treatment (1995)
Combat illegal logging (1930)
Spent nuclear fuel tracking and Acountability (1194)
Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act (Introduced in Senate)[S.726.IS ]

4 addressed Discrimination
Claims for civil class action based on discrimination (1989)
Domestic partnership benefits (2521)
Unresolved civil rights crimes (535)
Equality or two parent families (2286)

4 addressed Homeland Security
Judicial review of FISA orders (2369)
National emergency family locator (1630)
Amend US Patriot Act (2167)
Chemical security and safety (2486)

quickly though, re:143 days, I'm not sure of the exact number but it's anywere from 140-150 days of SENATE experience, check out Roll Call, you know the OFFICAL publication of the US SENATE that records the offical Senate activites of every US Senator, it's there. Yes Sent. Obama has some expirence in the IL House and Senate and as a community organizer

BSB, as for Rick Lazio, he was a last minute canadiate, with only weeks to campagin instead of months, he was a no name against Clinton, she had more money and he really was a weak weak weak canadite one I still don't know why the GOP put him up

but yeah, I'll check in and maybe even post something here and there IF this discourse raises above O'Reilly vs Olberman yelling

to those saying "Palin has only a year and half (or 18 months) and Obama has 4 years" he took the oath of office in 2005, it is now 2008 which means he has served 2 sessions, about 3 1/2 years

again this isn't Obama vs Palin, it's Obama vs McCain and shall we compare their records?

to those saying "Palin has only a year and half (or 18 months) and Obama has 4 years" he took the oath of office in 2005, it is now 2008 which means he has served 2 sessions, about 3 1/2 years

again this isn't Obama vs Palin, it's Obama vs McCain and shall we compare their records?

He's out of touch with the working class as the rich ol fart can't remember how many homes he own....or is he that senile?Yeah, he's the man of the people allight.

Unlike Asian women, where he resorts to imagination.

* She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000.

* Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.

* She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.

* She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.

* In July of 2008, Sarah Palin became the subject of a state ethics investigation looking into whether she fired a top law enforcement official in her administration because he had failed to dismiss a state trooper who was involved in a divorce with Ms. Palin’s sister.

* Sarah never left the country before July 2007 when she needed to first obtain a passport before visiting Alaskan National Guard troops stationed in Kuwait.

*As mayor of Wasilia, Palin built - as her legacy - a $15 million multi-use indoor ice arena on land that did not belong to the city. It will cost Wasilla at least an additional $1.67 million to acquire the land which the town is attempting to pay for by cutting library services, postponing capital improvement projects, and raising fees.

Need more convincing?

Statement from NARAL on the Anti-Choice Palin: http://www.naral.org/elections /election-pr/pr08292008_palin. html

Editorial by Susan Estrich "Sarah Palin is Not a Stand-In For Hillary Clinton": http://www.foxnews.com/story/0 ,2933,413525,00.html

Blog by Kim Gandy of NOW "Not Every Woman Supports Women's Rights": http://blog.thehill.com/2008/0 8/29/not-every-woman-supports- womens-rights/

Salon.Com - John McCain's Choice of Palin Is the Epitome of Tokenism http://www.salon.com/opinion/c onason/2008/08/30/palin/

Second: Obama has far less experience than McCain and Biden. Far less than either Clinton, less than Gore, Kerry, blah blah, less than damn near any serious presidential candidate in decades. By trying so hard to claim he has so much more experience than Palin, you're really emphasizing that you're comparing two newbies in a field where everybody else is a veteran. It's like comparing Kerry's grades in college to Bush's. It turns out they BOTH had lousy grades. You're following a lousy strategy. Your strategy needs to be: "Lack of political experience is not an problem; we need fresh blood and new thoughts."

Which is a sentiment I agree with. I could care less how much 'political experience' people have, because that's almost the negative of 'real-world experience'.

Honestly, who to vote for? An articulate, seemingly fair-minded man who's obviously some kind of leader, even considering all his faults, or a guy who chooses a cross-eyed lunatic for whom it may as well still be the goddamn 13th century? What the FUCK is McCain thinking?

Say goodbye to all the smart Republicans, you fucking loser.

If I had any advice to give McCain, it would be- don't try to fix your reputation for being a bad Republican by choosing an even worse one for your running mate.

Anyway, don't listen to me. I'm just completely fucking pissed off that McCain picked such a terrible, terrible running mate.

A successful and independent role model that scares democrats?

"Sarah Palin is a condescending character of what the old guard in the part thinks a woman should be in the party."

The old guard thinks women should be popular governors, noted for busting corruption in their own party? How primitive!

It is a roll of the dice. It's a gamble that might pay off or might not. I think it'll work.

"...and a complete and total embarrassment for the Republican party on the scale of Quale..."

She is no more an embarrasment than Obama is for the Dems. Less, because she's not at the top of the ticket. Seriously, people are touting Obama's foreign policy experience? That's self-delusional.

By the way, Quayle had more experience than Obama...

"but eventually you'll quiet down, and gradually stop making these arguments."

How about you? Or are only pro-Obama arguments worth having on aicn? Regardless, the arguments will all go away after election day. We'll see whether the gamble pays off.

I guess my point was that as much as it might be comforting to you and other Christians to see a hardcore Christian nominee, for the rest of us it's not really a benefit. That's not an attack, just an observation.

I don't really care much about the 'Experience' gambit, whichever side the argument falls. I don't think it's a worthwhile criticism, nor is it a guarantee of worthy stewardship. It's a lame duck argument.

Romney, you may not be at all surprised to hear, is not happy. Not happy at all. McCAins staffers and top advisors were giving Romney coy hints about the VEEP post all the way up to Friday when McCain actually phoned Romney to tell him he wasn't getting the job just before Romney got on a flight back to Boston. Romney has raisedover $20 Million for McCain and played the loyal supporter in every media interview. And now he sees McCain annoint Palin who McCain has only every talked to face to face once about 6 months ago.

Romney will get on board at the RNC and wave the flag for both of them BUT his Free and Strong America PAC is now being spoken of as the platform for a new bid should McCain crash and burn in November.

There was always talk of McCain not being a very good team player at times and the fact that his Campaign have stressed at great length just how personal this was a decision of McCain's suggests that some in the McCain capmaign were not pleased with the pick and thought his personal emnity for Romney got the better of him.

Well it's Palin now and November is suddenly looking quite some distance away for Republicans & McCain staffers who are not entirely convinced a neophyte should be second most powerfull public face and voice of McCain's Presedential bid.

She will have to campaign, raise funds, rebutt breaking stories and be McCains wing man in a gruelling round the country 24 hour marathon in the full unblinking media gaze of the most keenly watched and scrutinised Presedential campaign in decades, if not ever.

BTW Hurricane Gustav is growing in power, New Orleans is under the process of evacuation and McCain has said the Republican National Convention may have to be suspended.

A more cynical person would invoke past wingnuts pronunciations about "God" inspired hurricanes and say that the deity appears none too happy with the selection of Palin depite here fundy Chrisstian credentials, however Gustav is threatening to be a truly terrible Hurricane so McCain might just have made a far better judgement call to make up for his leftfield VEEP choice.

Immortal: I don't think you got the irony in my post

Sorry, Samsquanch, but you're fucking wrong. It's a God given BABY with a soul. Speaking as a professional writer who makes his living from using words, I love when pro-abortion people try to support it with the oldest trick in the book, namely by selectively using certain nouns or adjectives to get away from the HEART of the matter -- which is the simple fact that it IS a baby and actual HUMAN BEING inside the woman. But hey, call it a fetus or a zygote or a fertilized egg and start using scientific terminology to take the edge off of things or to frame your side of the debate...to make the baby seem less like a living life...and thus you can find it a lot easier to kill it with no qualms or moral questioning at all.

And therein lies the reason why I say a hearty "Fuck you" to Obama, who as a seasoned politician and as someone who is supposed to be SUCH the fucking scholar and thinking man, can't even show up at a religous debate and answer a question on Abortion without sounding like a used car salesman. "When does life begin? I can't answer that. It's above my pay grade."

Seriously, what the fuck is up with an answer like that? Once again Obama proves he's a slick suit who just wants to get elected and he is too chicken shit to show any REAL moral backbone. Seriously, who the fuck shows up at a debate and says "It's above my pay grade and I can't answer when life begins" when you KNOW abortion is going to be TOP of the list of questions you'll be asked that day?

If EVER there was proof that Obama CAN'T answer any REAL hard questions why would I want him in the Oval Office?

Then get back to us.

In fact, let's put this in plain simple terms. It's actually NOT a wash because Palin has more guts than Obama. She actually DOES come out ahead. Why the hell should I believe Obama can deal with Iran when the man is too much of a coward to even go on a show like Bill O'Reilly's to be interviewed -- mind you, a show that he PROMISED to do when O'Reilly confronted him at a public appearance? The man WON'T answer any hard questions AT ALL. Wake up! He's a used car salesman and slick laywer tool who thinks his big ears and goofy grin and being hip and young has earned him the presidency. For fuck's sake, if the man is too chicken shit to do a simple sit down INTERVIEW, do you REALLY think he's going to be great negotiating with a terrorist nation like Iran that's trying to build a nuke to strike at Israel? Talk about Libs living in fantasy land!

What about premies born several months earlier? If they are allegedly "alive" for having successfully navigated the birth canal, then why not abortion survivors?

And in either event, what lack of moral compass must one be devoid of to allow an infanticide survivor to perish? T䣐he next president of the country, perhaps?

What I would proudly call myself, though, is "Pro Civil Rights", which in the case of abortion, unfortunately for folks like me, and really, really unfortunate for folks like you, is definitely a civil rights issue. Because as much as you would love to imagine that God's little fleshy, inch-long angel in a woman's uterus is it's own, independent entity, it simply isn't. It depends on the mother for it's survival. The woman isn't simply some worthless vessel, a gestation chamber with legs, she is a human being with rights, and one of those inalienable rights is to not have her uterus fucked with by the state. Sorry buddy, that's just the way it is.

And you know what, you're right about Obama's 'pay grade' line. If he had any courage at all as a politician in this matter he'd admit his true feelings, which, as a Christian are probably no unlike yours, or maybe more like mine on the subject, but either way he's probably not so down with it, but AS A POLITICIAN he has the responsibility to support the law, and the law clearly states that the State does not, and should not have the right to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body.

As for when life begins, that's a whole other debate, but let me just ask you this- just because you believe something, you must acknowledge that other people might not agree with you. You may be certain that life begins at conception, but others disagree. You might not like that, but you share a country with those people, and their beliefs need to be respected as well. Personally, I think consciousness is the deal-breaker, and that until there is some semblance of consciousness, it isn't a 'person' in any sense of the word. I still disagree with abortion on a moral line, but that's where my cookie crumbles.

I should be ashamed of myself for asking you the pointed question whether or not infanticide survivors are alive? That, to you, is an exaggeration and I should be ashamed? Really?

Scenario -- Your second trimester pregnant wife, moth, sister, niece, daughter is in a car accident, goes into labor early as a result and the "humanoid" isn't going to make it. Do you attempt to revive?

What kind of person authorizes such things into law?

And, as much as I agree that the choice to abort isn't necessarily a good one, it's not up to you or me, which America's female population is infinitely grateful for, I'm sure.

Democrats are constantly suggesting we look to Europe for guidance. In England, a woman needs doctor permission to have an abortion at 4-months. In France, it's even less(!) at 3-months. Here in America, a woman can be giving birth one room away from another woman terminating her baby that she carried longer. It's insane.

And the legalized killing of abortion survivors? By the same people who are by-and-by against the death penalty? That's just evil.

So, before they're born, they need to be defended by the morally righteous, but once they are actually full-fledged human people, they're a drain on the taxpayer, and just another welfare sucker? What about soldiers? The army tends to be populated with these same poor people, and as cannon fodder they're expendable? Whaat??

Right?

Nothing, as long as you're not the one being aborted, I suppose.

"Isn't it a woman's choice to do with her body whatever she sees fit?"

Sure! She could fling herself off a skyscraper too, if she'd like. Sure would be problematic if she landed on an innocent pedestrian below.

Hint -- the pedestrian in that analogy is the unborn victim.

"I'd love to see a hardcore anti-abortionist justify they're opinion to a rape victim."

Simple. Several of us from my dojo donate our time at a local battered women's shelter. It's impossible not to identify with and grow relationships with many of them. Some are rape victims.

You should see the look in their eyes once you've convinced them that the person growing inside them is just as much a potential victim of someone else's misguided superiority as they were.

And, similarly, exposes all Obama supporters attacking Palin about her lack of experience as hypocrites.

sigh.

Look, ask anyone around here, I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I rarely ever resort to name calling, I try to listen to all sides of an argument, I consider myself pretty centrist on a lot of topics, and I'm pretty fair all around. It's really rare that I'll ever come right out and say that I don't like someone personally, because of shit they write on an AICN forum.

However, if you were telling the truth in your last post, all I have to say is that you're a fucking disgusting human being. Fuck you, now and forever, you stupid, stupid fucking asshole. go choke on your gi, you useless shit.

There. Now I feel much better.

Now, what would you say about politicians that cast votes to keep infanticide legal? I would call them monsters.

"I bet they have a different look in their eyes when the child is grown up and looks just like the scum that raped her."

I have two godchildren that are well-loved by their mothers. Sorry to disappoint you.

They were tentative and direct contact was shut down months ago whith the Iranian missile tests but there are informal negotiations being held to address uranium enrichment with regard to the IAEA concerns.

Ironically one of the strongest cards to play against Iran was the fact that not just China but Russia was on board in the demand that Iran suspend enrichment activities as a precondition for serious talks resuming. Not any more.

The hideously complex web of inter-related National self-interest in the 21st century cannot be traversed by idiots spouting painfully crass one liners one normally associates with crappy action movies.

North-Korea is also proof that outraged blustering rhetoric is always employed to appease the simple minded while the serious work goes on in the background.

Hey! Keep staring into those beaten, traumatized victim's eyes and criticize their moral failings, being the big strong man you are, keep telling them you know better than they do what they should do, and what they're going through.

Just please, do us a favor, and when, as will inevitably happen eventually, you meet a woman not completely shattered and destroyed by her experience, please come here and tell us all what it was like to get your pathetic ass handed to you by an enraged rape victim. I hope she rips your useless balls off and feeds them to you. Prick.

All this appears to be proof that those in the McCain camp who had fears about where choosing Palin would lead are well justified.

Anyone think those who supported Hillary won't be even more concerned about Roe Vs Wade with McCain choosing Palin than is evidenced here ?

If you are trying to court undecided Dem or Independent women picking a candidate who is yet another lightening rod for a deeply controversial issue that holds real sway among women voters, is still I have to say, an "unusual" tactic.

There is an argument, and it makes sense. If you believe abortion is taking the life of a human being, then it's wrong to kill the child because of the crime the rapist committed. The rapist should be killed. It's different than you believe, because you reject the initial concept it's based on, but it's not unreasonable.

I actually agree with that view, and I'm an atheist :-)

SUBERB Satire W3bzpinn3r ! You should get a job on The Colbert Report. Funniest post I've seen in ages. Well done.

Obama has said repeatedly that he won't raise personal taxes, but only business taxes. Who pays those taxes? WE do. We pay those taxes when the business has to raise its prices to compensate. We pay those taxes when the business has to downsize and fire employees and hold off raises because of the cost.

Obama will sink America into the darkest abyss.

Dang, I'm on a roll today!

O.K. comparing the self confessed "hockey mom" to Reagan was pushing it a bit far even for satire. But claiming Bush is too Liberal is sooooo batshit insane that even complete Newbies like Palin would hold their head in their hands shaking it mournfully.

The Rep. strategy isn't call Bush a Liberal. The Rep. strategy is pretend Bush doesn't exist. Or failing that complain that Bush secretly took over the Republican Party against it's will while no-one was looking.

Your idea of painting a NeoCon failure like Bush as a Liberal isn't the point in a movie where the grizzled, cigar chomping, campaign manager looks you in the eye and says "Son, That's crazy talk ! But Goddammit it's might just be crazy enough to work!!"

It's the point in the movie where they bodily haul you off to the nice mental health centre holding you at arms length lest you defecate on them.

I do like the nice touch of "Communist"! Gotta admire that. So retro. So McCarthyesque yet so patently feeble.

Back in October, my wife suffered through a miscarriage. I am not a violent person, but anyone of you who would like to tell me that wasn't a human being that we were expecting, wasn't a life... come here and tell me that and I will punch you in the face.

"Thou shalt not kill" is a bit of a faulty translation. I means not to kill in the manner of a predatory animal. "Thou shalt not murder" would be better. Murder is the taking of an innocent life.

Regarding the person questioning whether or not they leave they babies to die, I direct you to this video... http://tinyurl.com/6q3xvs

As for the rape issue... adoption is also an option. Let the child live instead of punishing him/her for the horrible action of the rapist.

Hmm. It could work. The Swift Boat thing kind of worked, at least as far as distracting people from real discussion, anyway. I guess we'll see.

You think the Husbands and Wives and couples wouldn't punch anyone in the face who claimed they were muderers because some of the fertilized eggs they hope can become children do not "survive" ?

Fertility treatment is not evil but it does take a large amount of fertilised eggs to eventually ensure a pregnancy if one is even possible.

I repeat. Do we lock up the Doctors as murders and criminalise the devastated couples for wanting a child and helping the Doctors try and achieve their most heartfelt wish ?

would you like some cheese with your whine?

On the contrary, it's sadly all too commmon for those with first hand experience of fertility problems to experience the same utterly devastating fate jsm and his wife did.

I'm saying his suffering is completely understandable and human. But so is the suffering of those without a child who often lose them through no fault of their own.

Wow. Heavy words, considering your own mother made the right choice.

And in your own words, it is I that is "a sick fuck"...? I'll wear that criticism as a badge.

I live in Brockton, MA. Use the search or google the site to read numerous posts from me "claiming" to be from the people's republic of massachusetts. Would enjoy the opportunity to meet your acquaintance!

These hypothetical mythical sub-humans, who believe a red flashing message telling them they are the "lucky winner" and then click on it excitedly, surely cannot navigate through the choppy waters of turning on a PC never mind connecting to the internets via all those tubes.

Do you honestly believe that it is wholly and completely impossible for an alleged "humanoid" (one that we do not know whether it is alive or not) to survive an abortion? You truly believe that there never, ever, are there any abortion survivors, ever?

At the very least, entertain the idea that there could be an abortion survivor. Wouldn't the rights and protection of the constitution extend to them as it is argued to extend to detainees at Gitmo?

Have you at the very least attempted to google "+infanticide +abortion" yet before speculating my generosity?

Again, I'm a self proclaimed pro-choicer, and I still can't believe I have to explain such things to what I'd like to believe are rational and free thinking people. This topic is truly a no-brainer.

But to (undeservedly) answer the question... Yes, of course. These women are in pain. It isn't unusual for them to lash out when someone suggests that they can break thru their patterns, whether or not they forged them for themselves. Most of these women rise above their challenges and I'm grateful to have helped them along the way. Others that remain locked in their shells often continue forward on a path of pain and misery. It's tragic to watch it happen when it does, but you can only offer so much of yourself.

But it's the encouraging words from folks like you and bacci that enable me to persevere.

Damn. Can only imagine the demagoguery were I a pro-lifer...

Yeah! Kiss my ass!!!

And I better have a fucking house when I get back too!!

You vodka swilling bastard!

Do not piss me off any further!!

Die! FUCKER!!

I tell ya, it's a bitch, this whole community outreach thing. I'm sure Obama can tell similar stories.

Hurricanes. They wouldn't give a crippled-crab-a-crutch!

You are familiar with the definition of the word "counsel" yes? Understand that this isn't a religious thing (I'm agnostic). We instruct them how to protect themselves. Afterward, sometimes friendships are formed organically as a consequence. And opinions are shared. Nothing is forced on the folks that have been forced upon. They know that any outside interaction is something they sought for themselves.

Now, I'm certainly not looking to AICN talkback for praise, but... you truly in your heart of hearts don't think that this is a noble thing that is worth doing? Really?

I see living breathing evidence about 3-4 times a month that suggests otherwise. I certainly don't need a stamp of approval from the likes of you. You sleep with your conscience.

Can you prove it to me scientifically or do you think science is satans tool to confound us all with "fake" Dinosaurs ?

Can you tell me to the nanosecond when a potential human becomes viable outside the womb ? In every case ?

Do you think every female sacrifices her human rights as soon as she become pregnant ?

Is a female nothing more than a babymaking machine to be disposed of or threatened with force or the state if she in any way threatens the potential for a human that pregnancy signifies ?

Ahh... the certainty of the zealot. So comforting. Yet so utterly blind to reason and the complexities of the real world.

Palin is praising Clinton on the trail as the GOP woos the New York senator’s supporters.

WASHINGTON, Pennsylvania (CNN) – This might not be the best way to reach out to those disillusioned Hillary Clinton supporters.

In just her second appearance on the campaign trail with John McCain, newly-minted GOP running mate Sarah Palin was showered with boos on Saturday for attempting to praise Clinton’s trail-blazing bid to become the first female president.

As she did at in her debut speech in Ohio yesterday, Palin appealed to the women in the crowd here in Pennsylvania with a political shout-out to Geraldine Ferraro, who preceded Palin as the first women to be tapped as a vice presidential candidate. The reference was met with polite applause.

But in contrast with the mild reception that greeted the comment at the Ohio event, when Palin praised Clinton here for showing “determination and grace in her presidential campaign,” the Alaska governor was met with a noisy mix of boos, groans and grumbles around the minor league ballpark where the “Road to the Convention Rally” was held.

I wonder if its possible for you to take a five-minute break from congratulating yourself so enthusiastically to consider for a moment that you have no right to tell anyone what they're feeling, or what they're going through, much less a woman, and much less a woman who's been the victim of rape.

It's always been the tactic of the most shameless proselytizers to attempt their brainwashing while their marks are at their most vulnerable, either emotionally or physically. Luckily for you, rape victims are both. How happy it must make you, the true believer, the do-gooder, to look into their eyes and see a ripe, vulnerable fruit, ready to be taken advantage of and violated all over again. I wonder, do you experience any kind of sexual thrill while you have them under your influence?

I never thought there could be a crime equivalent to rape, getting robbed is a violation, so is being beaten, but though there are some crimes, not many, that are worse, I always believed there was nothing just as bad. The you came along, with your smug, slow-witted admittal that you seek these women at their most vulnerable, and seek to violate them all over again. Wow, Fish, you're a real hero. Wear that badge with pride.

Do you have any concept of how arrogant you sound? And, before you take that as a back-handed compliment, like 'stubborn' or 'unyielding', consider for a moment that I mean 'arrogant' the way it's intended, which implies a certain deep level of stupidity. You are arrogant, in that you don't know how wrong you are, how inappropriate your behavior is, but here's the kicker- you don't know that you don't know. You just aren't bright enough to realize that these women don't need you. You are unnecessary to them. Unless you're a husband, father, brother or son, you have no right to speak to them or for them on this topic. Maybe some day it'll come home to you. Maybe then you'll know what I'm talking about.

But until then, please, continue to think of yourself as the savior, as the 'good man', the man who would never in a million years commit rape. The man who knows better than they do what's best for them The man that will use their weakness and vulnerability to push a misogynist agenda while they're too weak to fight back. Continue to pat yourself on the back for being so noble, and maybe one day you'll actually experience something real, and maybe you'll try to do something to repair the damage you're too dumb to know your causing.

somehow I doubt it though. I feel sorry for the women in your life.

Do you get it now? Jesus, it's like debating with wingnuts in here.

No clue. Prefer to err on the side of caution. Kinda like coal miners.

"Can you prove it to me scientifically or do you think science is satans tool to confound us all with "fake" Dinosaurs ?"

I'm agnostic, not a born-again if that's where you're going.

"Can you tell me to the nanosecond when a potential human becomes viable outside the womb ? In every case ?"

Whatever the answer is, I think it should be applied consistently; re: car accidents in the second trimester, etc. Scroll up.

"Do you think every female sacrifices her human rights as soon as she become pregnant ?"

Absolutely not. Yet she does gain much more responsibility for the life of another, whether or not the alleged "person" exists outside her "incubator."

"Is a female nothing more than a babymaking machine to be disposed of or threatened with force or the state if she in any way threatens the potential for a human that pregnancy signifies ?"

Of course not. It's just a crying shame that the far left has pared a female's (yes, let's not forget this isn't about only 'women' but children too) has pared a female's decisions to only two -- Rear the child or abort. Adoption is a noble thing compared to the alternative. Ask any adoptee if they would have preferred otherwise and spectacle at their opionion.

"Ahh... the certainty of the zealot. So comforting. Yet so utterly blind to reason and the complexities of the real world."

I am a "zealot" yet it is you that would trample the unborn with reckless abandon. So, how do you feel about corporal punishment?

She accuses Hillary Clinton of hurting the cause of women. She also said that she feels bad that she is unable to support a woman candidate because of this.

Good Luck Palin!

Certainly, because it's a wonderful thing to watch an abortion survivor dehydrate in a laundry room. That's hope and change we can believe in!

There is a line. The status quo knows no line.

Incidentally, you're one TB handle I'd love to have a carbomb with. No lipservice here.

Sorry. The above is only 50% universal.

Or did you not understand the definition of "pious"?

As for that carbomb comment, way to support terrorism, Osama Bin Fish.

I'm thru playing with you children. Best wishes.

Oh yeah, just for the record, not a democrat. your lame non-sequitur is even more useless than you thought.

Now take your ball and go home.

Next up on his agenda: burkas and public stoning.

Straw man. I never claimed otherwise and it's only common sense.

You claim to grant her human rights but only if it doesn't interfere with you controlling her and her own pregnancy from whenever you chose to interfere.

"It's just a crying shame that the far left has pared a female's (yes, let's not forget this isn't about only 'women' but children too) has pared a female's decisions to only two.

Straw man. I never claimed otherwise. But you assume, with the ignorant arrogance samsquanch spotted, that a poor female doesn't have the brains to already know that is an option and considered it with far more care and heed of the consequences than a goulish creepy voyeur like you could ever provide.

"yet it is you that would trample the unborn with reckless abandon."

Straw man number 3. Yeeerrr Out!

Sorry douchebag but I leave the choice to the female and trust that the Laws and Medical practices of the Land have not been usurped by Religious Zealots. I recommend you read up on how to prevent teenage pregnancy which would cut abortions dramatically.

Sadly for you it involves education. Though the good news is that around the world contraception and education have proved far more powerfull than anything you yourself could ever hope to achieve by badgering the vulnerable.

The tried and tested twin track aproach cuts down on teenage and other pregnancies and abortions MASSIVELY. I support it not just because it more effective than anything you think you are doing but because my head isn't up my ass and instead of posturing about abortion I think real provable methods to decrease abortion should over-ride YOUR childish need to posture which has a clearly lesser effect on the overall abortion numbers.

Oh, and by the way, you racist piece of shit, it makes you sound like a subhuman mongrel when you use nicknames like 'Obongo'. You poor, poor white power losers are all in a tizzy these days? Aren't you? Poor dears.

So whatever the result it was McCain who gave himself that amount of time and no more.

But consider.. is it unusual for candidates to outline what they would hope to achieve and any Policies they would prefer enacted as well as a direction in which the campaign should go ?

I think the truth may be that some of McCains VEEP candidates played hardball for positiion and clout because they knew he had a self imposed d