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Bloody hell. A british FIRST
by Frankie Pigeon
Jul 26th, 2008
03:48:30 AM
and no wolfman transformation sequence will ever top American Werewolf. Glad to hear baker's not trying to.
first?
by wbrownley
Jul 26th, 2008
03:48:48 AM
An ASSistant blocked his way to the combo?
by SpencerTrilby
Jul 26th, 2008
03:49:43 AM
Way to deal with a fucking master in make-up FX. That's some serious respect and deference here.

As for the CGI transformation, I really don't know what to think. Can't they blend practical and CGI?

damn!
by wbrownley
Jul 26th, 2008
03:51:38 AM
well, i guess the insomnia hasn't paid off. i'm going to bed.
fascinating but he should keep his mouth shut
by Rupee88
Jul 26th, 2008
03:59:37 AM
That isn't the way to get more work coming your way, but he's probably wealthy and doesn't care...plus he is so talented and that may get him over. But the Hollywood rules are to praise everything and don't make public the dirty laundry from the production. If he sounds this annoyed, you know he is toning it way down and it was a total clusterfuck. As if changing directors midway, was not enough, they were cockblocking him out of the production process etc. CGI is fine but not if it on the level of "I Am Legend". I wasn't really that excited about this film to begin with, but now I am certainly less so.
I just got off the phone with Joe Johnston
by SpencerTrilby
Jul 26th, 2008
04:02:55 AM
he's gonna take Punisher 2 over. So the studio will finally greenlight his pet project. Codename: JP4.
It's infuriating that the studio and filmmaker would treat baker
by IndustryKiller!
Jul 26th, 2008
04:11:32 AM
I want to see this movie. pretty fucking badly actually. Werewolves in victorian times with a great actor? Awesome. But I can wait and skip it in theaters if it seems that Bakers works, who is really the fucking star of this film, has been tampered with. If Baker says he can deliver a practical transformation on time and on budget then the only excuse not to is laziness. I can't believe that Del Toro, since this is a passion project of his, would have it any other way.
Fuck this makes me nervous...
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
04:51:37 AM
In the other Wolfman TB I said "I'm crossing my fingers that as Baker has so much love for the Wolfman, that they don't break his heart on this. He's talked about retiring. I reckon if they fuck him over this could be the proverbial last straw."

Now after reading this new interview I feel a sense of icky dread. They fucked him on the 70s Kong, which was a labour of love. Even Landis didn't shoot the American Werewolf transformation the way he wanted, and now this... fingers crossed man, fingers crossed...

I trust Universal to make the right decision.
by TattooedBillionaire
Jul 26th, 2008
04:51:44 AM
They were smart enought to jump off the Ratner ship, so they obviously want to keep doing the right things. I think we'll be okay.
Remember that Joe Johnston's an SFX techie by trade
by palimpsest
Jul 26th, 2008
04:56:40 AM
Maybe he was threatened by having Baker on set and marginalised him because of that. I mean, it's a little like having Kubrick turning up on an Brett Ratner shoot.
Palimpset
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
05:16:07 AM
You obviously don't know who Johnston is. You know the look and feel of Star Wars (the originals)? McQuarrie gets all the press (and yeah he's fantastic), but it's every bit as much due to Johnston's design, storyboards, art direction... "SFX techie" is an insult and mindless simplification. You act like it's his first film as a director. 'Remember' yourself to know what the fuck you're going on about.
Sorry, Palimpsest.
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
05:21:15 AM
Caught it but it was too late. WhyTF do the mods/writers have the option to edit their stuff and we don't? Oh yeah, AICN forum capabilities are fucked. I don't care about avatars, but damn...
BAKER is a genius
by max404
Jul 26th, 2008
07:01:45 AM
and a legend to boot his make-up/mechanical fx make CGI look cheap and fake best thing about the ring remake were the 2 seconds or so we see his make-up fx. scary shit. a real shame the man hasn't been doing (asked to do?) more work the last 15 years or so
Thank you Capone and Rick Baker
by Genre_Baby
Jul 26th, 2008
07:26:43 AM
First time commenting here after lurking for years. Had to join after reading this. UNIVERSAL show Mr. Baker the same faith/respect you did back in 1980-81 with An American Werewolf in London. Don't blow this one. Allow practical effects to be incorporated. It's not right someone with a track record as sound and amazing as Mr. Baker should be second-guessed. You deserve his talent and judgment. To Mr. Baker, don't let them get you down. We need you now more than ever. Thanks Capone for getting more information out. It stings to see the studios pulling this kind of bs. I hope they read this thread and reconsider.
Van Helsing should get bitch-slapped by everyone.
by Uncle Stan
Jul 26th, 2008
07:30:33 AM
Show me a CGI werewolf and I will show you a crap film
by hallmitchell
Jul 26th, 2008
08:22:09 AM
E.G. Cursed, Van Helsing, An American Werewolf in Paris. All flops. Did you read that producers. All flops. I want NO CGI on the werewolf.
Ugly Wolfman Head
by Etrigan_
Jul 26th, 2008
08:29:20 AM
I like that they're doing the old school werewolf style. More man the wolf. Not the dog snout looking dudes. Sorry, it was cool at first but the original Wolfman with the protruding under bite is the one for me
Why Does Everyone Hate CGI So Much?
by LaserPants
Jul 26th, 2008
09:05:12 AM
Cause it looks good? I mean, yeah, practical efx are awesome, and are a dying art, and Baker is a master at that stuff, but, I'm sorry, for the most part, a mix of practical and cgi looks better. For proof of this see the absolutely horrifying Harvey Dent / Two Face efx in The Dark Knight. The only reason that looked as good as it did was because of cgi Drop the luddite act 'cause its kinda, well, dumb.
I always liked Joe Johnston, however
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
Jul 26th, 2008
09:09:09 AM
if he allowed Rick Baker to be treated in this manner, then Fuck You Johnston. You and the Spinosaurus you rode in on. I know that you know your shit. You made the Rocketeer for fucks sake, but Baker is a god. Get your fuckin head outta your ass.
Capone, Who can we write to?
by Rando Calrisian
Jul 26th, 2008
09:13:58 AM
Like you said, the fans might have a little power in this. If we are loud enough, the studio heads might pull their heads out of their asses and allow Rick to work his magic. When I first heard of this project, I was hoping this would be all old school film making. A little CGI enhancement is just fine, but to do it all CGI is lame. Why do you have Rick Baker there if you aren't going to allow him to do what he does best?

An American Werewold in London has yet to be topped, and that film os over 25 years old. With the advances technology has made since then - let him at least try to knock your sock off!

Case in point - look at the CGI transformations in An American Werewolf in Paris, Wolf, Van Helsing, Underworld and even Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. Most of those look dreadful in camparison.

If Rick says he can do it practical - let him try.
Damn fat fingers.
by Rando Calrisian
Jul 26th, 2008
09:16:18 AM
Very true what Baker says.
by Knuckleduster
Jul 26th, 2008
09:27:02 AM
You have to go with whatever enhances the performance. Now, the only time I've ever seen CGI enhance a performance was with Andy Serkis playing Gollum. When it comes to werewolves, there simply is no debate. Stick to practical.

As far as I'm concerned, there are only two people on that entire production that can't be replaced, and that's Del Toro and Baker. Wake up, Universal.

P.S. I second that vote for JP4.

On His Relationship With Eddie Murphy...
by TroutMaskReplicant
Jul 26th, 2008
09:35:55 AM
Baker should be helping Murphy with his latex addiction by using physical effects to transform himself into a cold turkey.
NO CGI
by CharyouTree
Jul 26th, 2008
09:38:10 AM
I agree, no werewolf film should use the CGI, its a crime, Lycathrope movies always made the best use of practical effects, all those that didnt flopped, as Hallmitchell pointed out, Im not totally against the use of CGI as an enhancement but CGIing a whole transformation is like CGIing a Jackie Chan for a whole fight scene.
rick baker vs. steven spielberg
by Toe Jam
Jul 26th, 2008
09:49:04 AM
just read a fascinating account of baker's problems working with steven spielberg on the alien designs for what would have been "night skies." it was in a book called "the greatest 25 sci-fi movies never made." interesting stuff. baker doesn't seem afraid of sharing his thoughts -- good and bad -- on things, and i'd love to some day see his "night skies" designs.
ROB BOTTIN DID THE HOWLING, NOT BAKER
by Frijole
Jul 26th, 2008
09:56:15 AM
Nosferatu Jones is correct. Get your shit straight.
This sounds like a disaster
by Bass Bastardson
Jul 26th, 2008
09:58:18 AM
Rick Baker is a very diplomatic gentleman.
I trust this movie will rule next year...
by ChezKing
Jul 26th, 2008
10:42:47 AM
I believe in Rick Baker. He is a genius, but I also trust Joe Johnston will deliver. All the stars have aligned perfectly for this film production, despite all the previous problems. Let's, as fans, not create an unnecessary negative buzz, until we see the footage. Negative buzz can hurt a good film, and we're talking about the Wolf Man here.
Does he morp into Jar Jar Binks??
by picardsucks
Jul 26th, 2008
10:44:08 AM
If Baker has Problems with Spielberg, Landis...
by DoctorWho?
Jul 26th, 2008
10:45:17 AM
...AND the people and THIS film then maybe HE'S the one who's a pain in the ass. Just sayin'. You know the saying...if EVERYONE in the romm is telling you you're too drunk, maybe you should just sit down.
The Howling, Cursed
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
10:56:05 AM
Frijole - This is from memory, but as I recall Baker was going to be on Howling and may have even done preliminary work but in the end was much too busy, so he gave Bottin (who was on his team) his blessing and off Bottin went. As far as I remember the story, the bladder stuff which was going to be the big American Werewolf zinger was used by Bottin in Howling, and Baker felt sorta betrayed. I think, like the Night Skies stuff, that's all blown over. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I think Baker even has some sort of credit on Howling. So don't be so harsh about the Howling, it's not black-and-white.

I'll try to find the info and get back on this one.

As for Cursed, the only reason I watched that thing was to see Rick Baker Werewolf stuff. I'd read that even though most stuff was KNB or someone (I'm getting foggy, it's 2 in the morning here), there was still some of Monstermaker's stuff there. Nope. But they still kept dropping his name in the extras!! Maybe this was just the Oz release. Does anyone know (besides, he wouldn't know) whether there's any RB work left in the U.S. version?

Is Baker a pain in the ass on set?
by ChezKing
Jul 26th, 2008
11:07:32 AM
Doctor Who, you pose a fair question. It's very possible that Baker is a pain in the ass on set, but he is also the man, when it comes to sfx and make-up. But the truth is, we are only hearing his side of the story, and fans have a tendency to scream bloody murder when one negative thing springs up about a movie they love in production. Also, it's a little unprofessional on Rick Baker's part to be sitting here complaining to an interviewer about the production. He should know better. I am not against Baker, but there are far better ways to handle this problem than rousing negative buzz from fans.
Rick Baker DID work on THE HOWLING
by RUMIKOTRAX45
Jul 26th, 2008
11:08:03 AM
He was special makeup effects consultant. Rob Bottin came to Rick Baker for help. If memory serves, John Landis was none to pleased with Baker for this since he thought it was stealing the thunder of the America Werewolf's transformations which was in production at roughly the same time. THE HOWLING beat AWIL to the screen by a few months. Both films are great.
RE: BOTTIN and BAKER worked on the Howling
by tav7623
Jul 26th, 2008
11:12:19 AM
Both Rick Baker and Rob Bottin worked on the Howling... Rob Bottin did the special effects on the film and Rick Baker served as the special effects consultant for the film.
Tom Cullen:
by Sith Witch
Jul 26th, 2008
11:15:52 AM
What's with all this M-O-O-N stuff lately? What film did I miss?
History has proved, Doctor Who...
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
11:20:05 AM
That Baker was right when he complained to DeLaurentiis that Rambaldi's Kong wouldn't fucking work. Baker was right that the American Werewolf transformation was way overlit and it was bloody obvious that the guy was stuck through a hole in the floor. Baker was right to feel screwed by Spielberg after going hard the whole time Raiders was filming only to have his balls chopped off when eventually told they were "going in another direction" (and then of course the salt in the wound with Rambaldi).

The light-up finger and marooned alien survived into E.T. A bit rough that SS pissed off for months and Baker spent the best part of a million bucks on the aliens (I think there was a mohawk named Spike, too!) and while I guess they compensated him financially, what about the wasted time? God I'd love to see those things. It was based on those Kentucky alien encounter stories. Oh and BTW I love Rambaldi's designs. To be fair, maybe SS even offered him E.T. but Baker might have been to upset to take it. Carlo R gave us CE3K spiderguy, E.T. and the Guild Navigator which are all great designs, even if the performance was shit at times. But he DID fuck up HUGE on Kong. Calling Baker out as an arsehole is moronic.

On the same theme, there's a common denominator in that you post idiotic TBs most every time you're on a thread. You should sit down yourself. And shut up. You're this close to trolling.

Doctor Who, Fuck you too
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
Jul 26th, 2008
11:23:45 AM
The transformation scene in Werewolf in London is the single greatest transformation scene in cinema. Baker deserves utmost respect. Who gives a fuck about disagreements with the Burg' 20 fuckin years ago about design work or whatever. These fucks completely disrespected a fuckin genius.
Sith Witch
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
Jul 26th, 2008
11:25:57 AM
Tom Cullen seems to have at least started a Stephen King novel called the Stand. Please be nice to him, he's just learning to read.
Baker, Bottin and the Howling.
by cuthbert84
Jul 26th, 2008
11:26:25 AM
I asked this question directly to Baker during a Q&A once. The short version: He had been in talks with Landis for years on doing the "werewolf movie", even before they worked on their first movie, "Shlock". Baker had all these ideas on how to do a transformation sequence, but the movie seemed like it would never be. Along comes "The Howling", and Baker is hired, saying he knows just how he'll do it. As it begins, Landis calls him and says, "Guess what! We're making 'Werewolf!'" Baker tells him that he's already on another werewolf movie and Landis is furious. Baker understands, knows that a promise is a promise, and tells the Howling crew, "I'm sorry, I have a previous commitment, but here's my head guy, Rob Bottin", and he took over.
I swear there's an echo in both these Wolfman threads...
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
11:26:43 AM
Oh well. And Baker is a pussycat and outdoes David Fucking Niven in the gentleman stakes considering until recently he was working with Mark Romanek. Yeah a bit of honesty leaked through instead of the usual browntongued backstabbing bullshit. Boo fucking hoo. You guys that defend that as 'professional' are hilarious. You know what both Romanek and Bakers complaints are in aid of though?

Excellence.

Oh and Joe Johnston did the final look for the Iron Giant
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
11:28:59 AM
too, as well as your precious Boba Fett. Again, not just a "techie".
nice half vader
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
Jul 26th, 2008
11:30:30 AM
Ease up, half vader
by palimpsest
Jul 26th, 2008
11:32:00 AM
It's the weekend, you know...
Rupee88
by FILMFUNK
Jul 26th, 2008
11:33:03 AM
Rick Baker is about as far away from a Hollywood drone as you could get! He doesn't have to kiss arse to get work and never has, he's had people seeking him out since day one through word of mouth or to be more precise his Oscar winning work speaks for itself. He tells it like it is and I don't believe he's holding back either so if he says the movie works despite the restrictions he's had then i'm still there to at least see some great Wolfman Make-up!

Best case scenario with Rick Baker is he's aproached by a director who want's another creative genius on board and someone who'll collaborate to make a scene better! sounds like these days there's too many little cooks all poking their noses in and pasting over the cracks with shitty CG! has to be frustrating but Baker is also not adverse to using CG where it's necissary to blend FX work or make a scene possible where practical FX just won't do

Beniccio Del Torro plus Rick Baker are enough to get my arse in a theatre seat, shame all the other ingredients aren't there or this might have been an amazing Wolfman movie rather than possibly a good one!

I always thought that Vince Vaughn
by Smoke Monster Loves Kate
Jul 26th, 2008
11:47:32 AM
would've made a perfect Wolf Man. But for one set in modern day or perhaps early 20th century. Del Toro should be cool for a period setting.
Grow up.
by jdl82
Jul 26th, 2008
12:08:58 PM
You guys honestly think that makeup is the way to go with human-to-monster transformations? What are you, 50?? CGI's going to replace makeup, prosthetic foreheads, and eventually even replace actors. You actors really should've listened to your mommies when they told you to get a "real job." Your day is coming to an end.

That is all.

Palimpsest
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
12:26:21 PM
You're right. But do you blame me? Rick Baker (and Joe Johnston too) is part of the reason I had my mind blown as a kid and why I finally pulled my finger out and got into the business about a decade back. But I do make a point to try to stay objective, even though I love old-school AND digital effects. The more you know about both, the better I reckon.

Can you blame me for getting a bit excited/worried?! It's 3.30 in the morning and I should go to bed though, that much is true. Cheers.

Filmfunk, don't forget the script is by Andrew Kevin Walker, who gave us Seven and Sleepy Hollow, both of which I love. I can't wait.

After . . .
by adiehardfanwithalethalweapon
Jul 26th, 2008
12:34:47 PM
. . . more than 30 yrs in the business I think he has a right to his opinion. Most directors could stand to learn a thing or two from him. I also think Baker's a super honest guy and it can sometimes make him look bad.
Half Vader and whats his fuck?
by DoctorWho?
Jul 26th, 2008
12:35:35 PM
Get up on the wrong side of the bed today tiger? But please learn to read...it was a QUESTION not a statement.. I LOVE Baker's work!! American Werwolf in London was the single greatest movie going experience of my life at that age! It made me want to get into special effects and make-up. Countless movie goers watched that transformation scene and were blown away. I doubt that one single movie goer leaned over to the person next to them to whisper "Looks a bit 'over- lit' to me." Baker being the consumate pro that he is could look at it and probably point out half a dozen things he didn't like plus half a dozen more reasons the producer and director maade it difficult. The artist always has a much more discerning eye. You obviously know the whole behind the scenes political minutiae involved. Good for you. Write a book. That being said...why such a defensive prick like troll response to a simple question? You and NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYan ks should just go back to bed and spoon. You guys both sound like the comic book store owner on the Simpsons.
Sith Witch.
by Gilkuliehe
Jul 26th, 2008
01:10:13 PM
It's from Stephen King's novel THE STAND. I remember a "mentally challenged" character called Tom Cullen who used to say "M-O-O-N that's how you spell..." and then say any random crap. Did you hear that, user Tom Cullen? A MENTALLY CHALLENGED character. It's getting annoying, dude.

Oh and cockblocking Rick Baker sucks. Since THRILLER I've been dying to see a Zombie flick with Baker in charge of the make-up.

I dunno
by Neil_the_Sheep
Jul 26th, 2008
02:03:43 PM
Baker has got talent no doubt..does amazing work...my fav being, oddly enough, for Ed Wood. However, I always get the impression, maybe the wrong one, that he's probably hard to work with. They ask him to do some work, and he wants to take over the whole making of the movie it seems...he's not the director, but I dunno if he gets that.
Who gives a shit
by Double M
Jul 26th, 2008
03:03:11 PM
Seriously.
this sounds like director-studio stuff to me
by Genre_Baby
Jul 26th, 2008
03:56:56 PM
Baker has every right to complain, considering how things changed when directors did. Why folks are so stunned that Rick has the guts to talk about this? If Rick's built something that will be even cooler on screen and cheaper doesn't that make more sense? It sounds like he's genuinely stung by the treatment he received on set. I don't know Joe Johnson from squat but I'm real surprised he wouldn't want the person who is making the Wolf-Man on set to ensure that this will be a great movie across the board. Wouldn't you want the person making the lead character right there? I would. C.G.I. can work in some instances not all. And if there practical effects that will sell the transformation far better than a C.G.I. morph I don't see the crime saying something about it. Baker does the job folks pay him for and then some. It doesn't sound like he's trying to control the movie; only control how wonderful and "real" certain elements of The Wolf Man will be. This is one of his dream projects and it's a shame that Universal doesn't see their legacy and Rick's work as something that will live for a long time to come. So I say it again: Universal give Rick's practical effects a chance. It could mean an incredible movie rather than a decent one and perhaps more box office too.
Yep another balanced view from AICN
by 2LeggedFreak
Jul 26th, 2008
04:09:21 PM
Whats the point of just broadcasting one side of the argument unless its just to back up your fan boy love. Grow up.

Incidentally there hhas bee some pretty shitty use of CGI but when done right its fine. Anyone remember that film where the director was going to use all practical effects until somebody persuaded him part CGI was the wasy to go. Oh what was it called .... Jurassic something...it'll come back to me.
Transformation
by ChezKing
Jul 26th, 2008
04:22:26 PM
Maybe his practical transformation concept wasn't convincing to Johnston and Co. I mean, what looked impressive in the 80's doesn't work at all today. Not saying that cgi is that much better either. But the thing we all have to remember is we're only talking about the transformation not the end result which is the creature, and that's all Baker. Regardless of all the controversy surrounding this production, the movie is no doubt going to be awesome. We already know what the Wolf Man looks like, and we know the cast and it honestly can't get much better.
halfvader
by FILMFUNK
Jul 26th, 2008
05:07:08 PM
Thanks, didn't know who wrote it. I just get a bit worried when a new director comes in on something that looks like it has all the right ingredients and stuff starts to fall appart. I'm hoping it's at least good unlike that piece of shite that Wolf because I was truly shocked how crappy that actually was when the list of talent seemed like it couldn't fail! Mike Nichols, Jack Nicholson and Rick Baker!
Will Liev Schreiber out-perform del Toro?
by Immortal_Fish
Jul 26th, 2008
05:26:58 PM
The more I hear about this project and how it is shaping up (read: badly) the more I can't help but wonder if Liev Schreiber's take on Sabretooth in the Wolverine movie, considering how that is shaping up (read: nicely), will out-do del Toro's take on the Wolfman.
IDK why Snyder is reviled.
by dr sauch
Jul 26th, 2008
07:14:41 PM
I think 300 was really great. Do i believe that they were in a real environment? No. But then, its a graphic novel adaptation, and I felt like I was watching 300, the novel, come to life. It was almost like a big-budget art-house film. I think that Snyder is EXTREMELY gifted visually, and I think that WATCHMEN will be stunning.
Sorry Doctor Who?
by half vader
Jul 26th, 2008
08:40:56 PM
But that was the worst written idle question ever... and you're a troll calling the kettle black. My reading comprehension is just fine. Your writing fucking sucks. Actual questions have a question mark, rhetorical ones don't. Asshat.

You're right though. I was loopy last night and already admitted I was doing the ol' AICN post at 3 in the morning shtick, but if you can't see the pertinence of the American Werewolf situation you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

If you knew anything about what you profess to love so much, you'd know that often the makeup is designed around and for the lighting, angles and editing. So it's fair enough for it to be a big issue between Baker and Landis at the time and more than fair for me to get a little "comic book guy" about it, not to mention making a point in this particular thread. Did you know Smith painted his highlights almost in fluoro yellows on Sallieri in Amadeus because he knew the scene would be shot in yellow tones (otherwise the detail would be lost)? I'm not 'schooling' you, just giving another example of why that sorta stuff is crucial.

No, I'm not the comic book guy. Like you, I love this stuff and of course that scene is an all-time fave, but unlike you and the comic book guy, I put my money and pedantry where my mouth is. If you can agree you dish it out but can't take it, we're cool.

Your're right Half vader
by DoctorWho?
Jul 26th, 2008
11:24:25 PM
You're right...no question mark as in "Maybe he is a pain in the ass". Hey, what can I say...I type this shit out at work 'on the fly' and don't proof read my posts. But look dude, I'm just a fan... not an FX technician! If I sit here and asked you if you knew that John Coltrane's theme in the song "Acknowledgement" was based on a theme of four notes going up a minor third and back and then up a fourth...you would probably say..."No, I just dig the solo man"... OR... "Who gives a fuck". My point is this: I too can get DAMN particular about a topic I have some expertise in...I'm just not gonna rip off the guys head who doesn't. I'm not questioning Baker's artistry...that's where you're mistaken. Just found the ultra-defensive attack mode a bit of an eyebrow raiser. But hey, I appreciate the passion. We're cool.
The Thing had some very fake looking effects
by Rupee88
Jul 26th, 2008
11:54:03 PM
I love that movie, but you can't say it didn't look super fake when the dog was changing or with that one guys head. This backlash against CGI is somewhat justified but also exaggerated. King Kong was near perfect in CGI and would have looked retarded otherwise. The vampires in I Am Legend looked retarded in CGI and would have looked much better otherwise. So it just depends on the project and the talent of the animators/makeup artists.
yeah, that's the head
by Rupee88
Jul 27th, 2008
12:41:39 AM
that was the part that I was talking about...I couldn't remember the details, but it did look really fake. I thought it was fun and funny but it sure didn't look real. Anyway, I basially agree with what you are saying. It will be interesting to see how "photorealistic" the CG people/aliens are in Avatar. It's impossible to do photorealistic animated humans, but if they make funky enough aliens, maybe they can pull it off a bit.
Sorry no offense Rick Baker but fuck CGI.
by AllPowerfulWizardOfOz
Jul 27th, 2008
02:53:10 AM
You can dance around the issue all you want and call me out of touch but what you do is art and you are fucking that art in the ass with an endorsement of CGI. That's bullshit and I am going to call you out on it right now because you've made a career out of doing practical which IMO is and always will be better than any CGI. I dunno reading that interview had the opposite affect on me. I am actually disappointed now.
Thanks Doc Who.
by half vader
Jul 27th, 2008
05:37:49 AM
Maybe I can get heated at APWoO instead!

Hey check this out. If you love Baker, you probably love Dick Smith. If you love Dick Smith, you'll be blown away at this. Kazuhiro Tsuji is an awesome sculptor/makeup effects guy who was discovered by Smith and has worked for Rick Baker for years. He's just freakishly great and he did an oversized 'portrait' sculpt of Dick Smith for his 80th birthday. My mouth dropped open when I saw it.

This is the only link I could find with Smith standing next to the sculpt. It's a myspace thingie so hopefully it works. Here goes:

http://tinyurl.com/59cdmd

His work on "Wolf" was TOO Understated
by TheBloop
Jul 27th, 2008
07:09:12 AM
God, I was less impressive than some low budget Wolfy films I have seen. But of course, Rick Backer is a god. Here is my list of best looking werewolves in film: 1. American Werewolf in London 2: Dog Soldiers 2. The Howling 3. Bad Moon 4. Underworld 2 (the big bad wolf guy at the end) 5. The Monster Squad WORST< VAN HELSING
James Spader is a super-psycho-lookin muthafuka
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
Jul 27th, 2008
08:24:54 AM
when equipped simply with sideburns and yellow contact lenses.
Ugh, CGI werewolves are never scary
by jimmy_009
Jul 27th, 2008
10:43:06 AM
The worst application of CGI is in the horror genre. It just isn't as effective as practical effects because the key to horror is feeling like you are in the scene. One the CG is applied you immediately step out of it. The worst case of this is always werewolves, since it's damn near impossible to make it look real. Big mistake doing it this way, but it shouldn't come as a surprise.
"It's been a while now; I don't remember"
by Aeghast
Jul 27th, 2008
07:18:42 PM
So.. I take it you're not a journalist, Capone..? ;)
Like I say, try to be more objective...
by half vader
Jul 27th, 2008
10:14:59 PM
Jimmy 009, certain scenes in Pan's Labyrinth and the even more gruesome (similar, and earlier) scene in Irreversible were pretty fucking scary (I'm not talking about digital dicks). If you can walk away from the start of Irreversable and not be shaken by a digital effect then I guess you're so biased to practical effects there's just no pleasing you.

And like I said before, if makeup guys used your rationale of "it was crap before, big mistake, don't even try" then there would NEVER be any breakthroughs and we wouldn't even have the awesome animatronic stuff we love today. The crappy cg stuff and fanboy naysayers should be exactly the springboard that serves to spur the digital guys to try that much harder! The fact that mostly the cg werewolves haven't been scary should be a call to arms, not "just give up and be stuck with the old limitations on purpose". So you NEVER want a dynamic, fast wolf that can actually move and isn't hidden in choppy edits? Luddite.

But if the suits and the director ARE listening, Rick Baker MUST supervise the stuff. You've got a certified (HOW many Oscars was that again?!) genius in your midst. Use your brains ,don't cut of your noses to spite your face, and don't fucking block the guy's view of a God-damned monitor.

And you're unfair with the old stuff too Jimmy - the majority of practical stuff is still cheap, "fake-looking" and badly designed. Be fair.

P.S. I think it was you asn't it that was the kid's software designer who said all the stupid shit about the "Helvetica" doco? If so, the doco was actually really great. If not, apologies.

Van Helsuck Was a Horrible Disservice...
by Playhouse
Jul 27th, 2008
10:19:10 PM
...to every horror and monster movie ever made. The concept was kind of cool but the execution was atrocious. As a werewolf fan - and especially the work Rick Baker's done - I was appalled. Even more so than with Underworld. And to this day, I can't stand to watch Richard Roxburgh on film.
Oh and to the suits just let me say this -
by half vader
Jul 27th, 2008
10:19:34 PM
If this is Rick's love letter to the Wolfman and the classic Universal monsters, then you should make this Universal's love letter to Rick Baker and all the classic monsters and characters he's given you, and us. Nothing less (can we put this on the top of a petition?).
And Praise Directors Who are Turning from CGI
by Playhouse
Jul 27th, 2008
10:23:50 PM
It's a wonderful tool that can be used to enhance a film and its effects. But praise the directors who realize just how lazy and dishonest CG is. That's not to knock on the artists that put all of their time and effort into realizing CG effects. I think they do amazing work. It's just often incongruous with all of the other work done in a film. Makes me laugh how CG is supposed to transport us into these other worlds amazingly envisioned in a film but just transports us right out of the work altogether.
Playhouse
by half vader
Jul 28th, 2008
01:48:55 AM
See 3 posts above. Everything you say of cgi is also true of traditional effects. Cheers.
Above yours I meant.
by half vader
Jul 28th, 2008
01:50:01 AM
Whoops.
rick baker?!!
by centaur7
Jul 28th, 2008
10:28:22 AM
First of all, Rick Baker was great in Walking Tall and I have the utmost respect for him, but why he thinks he knows how to make a werewolf is totally beyond me!!! I've also heard he's cordial, but that doesn't mean he should be doing make-up! I've seen some great CGI effects in my day, Ultraviolet for example was a great use of CGI horror (and WAY unerrated, in my opinion). A lot of people on this site don't seem to get that the future is here and its made of zeros and ones.
Shia "The Beef"
by fishpillow
Jul 28th, 2008
10:37:00 AM
just got a DUI!!! Bwa-HA HA HA HA
Why even the need for a transformation scene?
by skimn
Jul 28th, 2008
11:09:34 AM
Lets think truly radical, and do away with the full body transformation scene. It's been done and done brilliantly in the past. How about some close ups of some transformation detail and the rest kept in shadow, or dark lighting for effect?
Flat out fucking disrespectful.
by thekylegassproject
Jul 28th, 2008
11:17:24 AM
That is fucking outrageous that someone literally BLOCKED Rick MOTHERFUCKING BAKER from viewing a monitor.

This industry (like every industry) has been totally fucking high-jacked.

industry of fucking cool...

Centaur 7
by half vader
Jul 28th, 2008
12:29:49 PM
Hey, you don't joke around about Joe Don Baker!!
Why even hire Baker?...
by Kid Z
Jul 28th, 2008
12:31:48 PM
...Why even spend money on CGI? Let's face it, this is going to end up looking like Jack Nicholson ludicrously bouncing with fake fur glued to his face a la "Wolf" anyway. I love the classic Wolf Man with Lon Chaney Jr. as much as the next guy. But what scared audiences in the 1930's is a far cry from what scares them today. I've watched The Wolf Man almost every Halloween since I was 5 years old and it's NEVER scared me and today I always get a good laugh out of it.
Wolfman trailer here
by chuffsterUK
Jul 31st, 2008
03:01:16 AM
Look awful:( http://www.bloody-disgusting.c om/news/13130
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