This was the first summer movie that I've gone to that had people clapping and cheering.

Sorry about the eat a dick thing, but ye gods, Batman Returns and Friday the 13th part IV? That is just mean.

But the Joker would have to be played by someone who could immerse themselves in the role and 'be' the joker. Heath's performance was just so fucking outstanding.

You don't need the AICN reviews in this case to know this movie kicks your balls up to the roof of your mouth.

I would think maybe the Catwoman like mentioned above, but who else?

Enter Mickey Rourke.

(Dent's not dead. Nolan said it was a mistake for Burton to kill the Joker, why would he set up Dent just to unconvincingly kill him off? If he was really dead, I think they would have made it clear. Plus, it's a comic book. The villain always lives to fight another day.)

Whilst in retrospect Jacks Joker may not measure up to the writing and different motivational story of Ledgers Joker, I don't believe for one second in '89 Harry had such disdain for the villian on offer. Just no.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I take issue to such correctional history. The Dark Knight's acclaim offers wonderful things to future 'comic book adaptations' and hopefully they'll be taken more seriously, but saying pretty much 'oh I always knew it could be this way' is lame excusionalist behaviour. No offence though Harry, I like you're style and a frequent visitor of the site.

And Harry, way to give props to Oldman. I thought he did a great rendition of Gordon in Begins, and I'm anxious to see how his role develops along with the rest of the returning cast. I'll take my leave of this talkback for now until I've seen the movie myself. Way too many spoilers floating around now. Hope everyone is having a ball this weekend. Cheers!

Yeah, I'm a conservative. Get over it now before reading further. No, I don't like Bush. And I certainly do not like McCain. Yet I am on board with the war on terror at large. I write this with understanding that the war on terror does not mean killing a single man, Bin Laden (aka the Joker). I know many of this site's frequentors feel differently. Sorry. We disagree. Please spare me your juvenile insults if you respond to this TB. Instead, check out the first article in the Bill of Rights which so recently afforded Jesse Jackson a convenient double-standard. On the other hand, rational debate is certainly encouraged.

To me, this movie was a refreshing Hollowood take on questioning how the war on terror is being prosecuted. It wasn't all lefty-leany. The atypical Hollowood fare. Instead, the flick was very "fair and balanced" if you AICN majority liberals can stomach such a phrase. Ultimately, this carefully nuanced movie made me think long and hard about the steps we've taken as a nation toward such an end.

The scene with the two cruise ships astounded me. I had thought the set up was that the Joker planted the detonator on each ship FOR that ship. In other words, had they pressed the trigger, they would have blown up their own ship. Another ho-hum done-that-before arc. I was pleasantly suprised that the movie portrayed Americans, of any stripe, as above sacrificing others to benefit themselves. Even if such sacrifice meant that of "cold hearted" crimminals. You left-leaners should understand this already were I to stereotype you. I write the word "perhaps" in jest. Of course you do. We conservatives were the ones stereotyed in that particular scene and you know it. And we were portrayed fairly. That resonated with me big time. Especially since it is accurate, despite what you may think.

Look, there is no clearer message than the cell phone "sonic" technology that Fox created which Batman employed -- "unilaterally" even. It's all about the Bush wiretapping, period. Fox (pun?) clearly had issues with the use of such a tool and theatened Batman with a dissolvement of their relationship at risk of Gotham at large. And yet, Batman made his promises and used this technology only to its intended end, the elimination of the Joker. Afterward, it was destroyed. He ultimately upheld the peoples' trust and Lucius's trust.

Opposing Batman is not the Joker. It was Dent. The typical fall from grace arc that I normally would be bored with if it wasn't utilized as such a contrast and analogy to that of Batman's. Dent had truly noble beginnings that ultimately dissolved when things got personal (i.e. harkening to how the alleged allegations of Dubya seeking payback for 41's assassination attempt). Where Batman tempered his vigilante ways with a code of ethics and morality, Dent made his sinister choices on a luck of the draw. Perhaps, even, the "heat of the moment." The likes of which the USA has been justly and heavily criticized of this in recent years.

Which brings me to the question this movie urged me to consider -- is my home country embodied by Batman or Dent? We are acting unilaterally in many ways. Most countries often do. As were the folks on the cruise ships, both felon and civilian. But are our actions in the interest of the greater good (Batman) or are we acting totally irrationally (Dent)? AND how can we deal with such shit when a force of nature (the Joker) is literally laughing in our faces while we ponder?

How rare in this day and age for a high budget Hollowood movie, a COMIC BOOK movie at that, to force us to reflect and decide? I think I enjoyed this ethical dillemma more than the movie itself.

Go ahead. Rip me up. You know you want to. BTW, the Obamassiah was against wiretapping (http://tinyurl.com/5jwv92) before he was for it (http://tinyurl.com/5bghgb). But absolute truths are inadmissable when it's so much more easy to paint someone a racist.

The whole time I watched this, I fucking knew that this guy was a crazy fuck. It wasn't 'guy pretending to be bugnuts' it was 'This guy's fucking crazy, and being around him too long, your ass will go crazy too.'. That he was crazy in a way that no one would want to emulate, a villain that was villainous and enough of a pathetic shit that you just can't look away from him. Finally, a villain I liked and loathed myself for laughing at at the same time. Joker? A fucking nutbar with knives and some kind of idiot savant ability to plan fucking carnage. I imagine the first couple of months that Keyser Soze went on his rampage of revenge? He was like this guy...only not quite as crazy.

This Joker is unique, and yet, THE fucking Joker. He's not an affable goofy vaude-villain, like Caesar Romero...He's not the fucking lunatic 'artiste' that Nicholson jerked off onto the screen...nor is he the over the top Joker that Hamill made awesome on the cartoon...In fact, the cartoon Joker would be scared of this fucker. The Arkham Asylum one shot would BE this Joker, and 'The Killing Joke' Joker would BE this Joker. The DKR Joker, Miller's crowning achievement? This is the Joker the Bat would break necks for. The Nolans wrote a balls to the wall, DETECTIVE COMICS Batman story that played out like a mini series on the screen. It was fucking fantastic. It is, however, just a flick, but fuck, man. It's pretty fucking amazing that something this good got past the boards with 'comic book' as its source.

The ferry scene was good because by this point, you're sitting in your seat, squirming, because this movie's not pulling your pud pretending that everything's gonna be fine, that Batman can save everyone, it's telling you that thinking everything's gonna be fine is not only a lie, but the worst thing you can do in their shitty world because with guys like the Joker...you NEVER know.

SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN IT

I think the Joker rigged the detonators to blow up the boats they were on, not the other boat.

They got every single thing right about Batman. Everything. He's a detective in this flick, and a badass. They got every character right, and Rachel Dawes was the perfect character for this flick. It was so damned good.

The Nolans deserve the fucking nod for this screenplay. Oscars, baby. This flick deserves it.

Having written that, please respond to the "other" words you read in my post. Thanks.

Ultimately -- there was a time when Hollowood made us THINK instead of preach to us. An unexpected return to form, this movie.

Honestly, I did not like Batman Begins at all for many reasons. I went to this movie tonight only as a social bridge with my 17-year old son. And I am still amazed at the epiphany it led me to.

It wasn't much more than an entertaining movie, but it made me think. And that is what makes it a GREAT movie.

Ahem.

Let me spell this out for you so you understand where this 'lefty-leaning-liberal' is comin' from, partner.

Wiretapping AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS is against the FOURTH FUCKING Amendment to the Constitution you tried to reference earlier in your statement. I have the right to fucking privacy. I'm an American. Don't matter a whit if you're trying to catch Osama (Yeah, dead fucking brill job of that so far...Keep looking for him in this country, who knows? You might fucking push one of the nice paranoid, the government's comin' for mah guns, Right Wing Tim McVeigh motherfuckers to do just that, be our very own Joker.) Now, you want to wiretap NON-American citizens on our soil? Know what books THEY check out of the library? Fucking extradite them to some hell-hole and interrogate the shit out of them if you have proof of wrongdoing? Go right ahead. Until they're citizens, they've got no reason to bitch. So, I believe in the CIA and the FBI and the NSA...but you cannot police your own people by treating them like fucking criminals. Torture...well, that's really up to the viewer, yeah? Morally, I'm against torture, as well as logically. Because torture does nothing to gain solid intel, according to the guys doing the torturing since the 70s or so. Reading a lot, I guess, makes me 'liberal'.

Next on my list of your grasping for straws, house of cards analogy, is the fact that you assume this is some kind of pastiche of post-911 'rah rah' bullshit for YAAAY! America!

The fact that The Joker in this case is right, that we fucking panic too easy, and cave into the demands of terrorists when the chips are down should tell you this. Fuck, I can't catch a goddamned airplane anymore without a telescope going up my ass and some dipshit with an IQ of 9 checking out my fucking shoes for bombs.

While John McCain (yeah, you don't like him...who can blame you? Fuck, if he were MY SIDE'S candidate, I'd hate him too) was callin' us a bunch of whiners, Obama had an actual policy speech on the war on terror. He said, when the terrorists used planes, we strengthened plane security. Fucking Richard Reid comes up with the 'shoe bomb'...I gotta wear sandals on the plane like a fucking criminal for the rest of this douchebag's presidency...The problem is, no one has the balls to say who the real fuck enemies are; and guess what? It's not Americans. It's the fucking Pakistanis, and the short sighted corporate fucks in the Administration who tried to get to the 'Joker' in this case, by beating up the fucking 'Riddler'...no, Hussein was the fucking King Tut of this little metaphorical dinner plate, I guess. A tinpot despot who had all the fucking sway of a fruit fly outside of Iraq.

And lastly, in your metaphor, if Batman were truly us, and the Joker were that amorphous 'islamo-fascist-terrorism' you sweat so hard...when we catch Bin Laden in our sights, we'd hand him over to the UN right? Or put him in an asylum? No, you and I both know where he SHOULD go: In the fucking ground upside down and pissed on by lunatics. But, Batman wouldn't do that shit, man. Batman has fucking standards. And for a long time before George Bush, so did America.

Maybe we will again.

How can you hate that? That's easily worth another $10 to go see again.

On the other hand, were someone to cut TDK into a bukkake reel of all Ledger all the time, I might reconsider! Yes, the man does indeed live up to the hype. He is the "Killing Joke" Joker only with his own spin on the character, ala Johnny Depp's pov.

another thing. was it just my theater or was the music so loud you couldnt hear the speech at the end when he was fleeing? i couldn't.

McCain is older than Coca-Cola Classic.

McCain is older than Skeletor.

McCain is as old as the tree in my front lawn.

Fuck, why don't you guys on the Right side of the aisle run fucking Cheney? Too scared? How's that for a fucking plan? He's old as fuck, and mean as a cougar with a fucking loose tooth. He'd fuck you all over nice and quick, and leave nothing for the vultures. Unless you're part of Old King George's 'base' of those upper 2 percenters, then you'd have tax cuts in a time of war...that's uh..NEVER FRICKING HAPPENED BECAUSE IT'S A DUMB FUCK IDEA.

Sometimes, though, it's pretty funny to watch the Right scramble to parse some evil shit out of Obama's rhetoric. You guys seem a LIIIITTLE bit desperate...hee hee hee! And from now on, you should try to remember typing 'MR. PRESIDENT OBAMASSIAH'. Unless we have a nice bloodless coup, and the Blackwater Junta helps Old King George keep his kingdom.

There is "bullshit" and there is "condescending bullshit". One of these is subjective. Since yours is commentary on what I wrote, I bucketize your post as such. For what this response is worth at least (which is admittedly equally subjective).

"And I won't be the last to say that condescending bullshit, even wrapped up in nice little grammatically correct sentences is still....ah...condescending bullshit.

Ahem."

Okay, so, fuck your auntie in the ass too.

"Wiretapping AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZENS..." yada yada. Bunch of shit clipped for brevity.

Did you not glean anything from what I wrote? Yes, I GET that. I do. I truly DO. I'm a Libertarian. I think it's sick. Read again what I wrote. Batman's actions in this flick made me think about and reconsider what the whole FISA crap is about. I'm THINKING. Isn't that what you want us "neocons" to do? I'm sure you're a smart guy. I'm sure you can see the area between black and grey (incidentally, the same area the movie was exploring).

Everything you mention about the Joker is correct. As I mentioned, he is a force more than a character. We must contend with him in our daily lives. Like Al Queda. Yes, Tim McVeigh was an ass that we could not handle under own current moral standards. You are right. This film makes us question this angle, as did the scene with Joker and Batman. And yet, I must question youe other angle presented in that clip -- would you continue to torture the joker as batman did considering many lives that were at stake?

"In the fucking ground upside down and pissed on by lunatics." Do you REALLY believe that our "progressive" movement would allow such a thing?

And for all the same reasons, after at least 10-years of undeniable evidence -- No conservative understands why any liberal could ever be unhappy with a President McCain as you are. The man has been a media darling for a reason, mostly due to the the fact that he has championed every liberal cause imaginable (I believe the media is left-forgivable if not left leaning).

Everyone has a strategy for how they vote. Mine is quite simple. Regardless of who is running (and in my ultra-blue liberal state of Massachusetts), I often write in superhero aliases. Can't help but wonder how many times volunteers have scratched their heads wondering who Arthur Curry is.

Gordon: "Yeah. That's him."

Batman: "He really let himself go."

Gordon: "Yeah. Say what you will about Arkham, but they do have a great buffet."

As opposed to voting "present"...?

"McCain is older than Coca-Cola Classic."

"McCain is older than Skeletor."

"McCain is as old as the tree in my front lawn."

I hate McCain. He is Bob Dole. Next?

"Fuck, why don't you guys on the Right side of the aisle run fucking Cheney? Too scared? How's that for a fucking plan? He's old as fuck, and mean as a cougar with a fucking loose tooth. He'd fuck you all over nice and quick, and leave nothing for the vultures. Unless you're part of Old King George's 'base' of those upper 2 percenters, then you'd have tax cuts in a time of war...that's uh..NEVER FRICKING HAPPENED BECAUSE IT'S A DUMB FUCK IDEA."

Uhm, yeah. Okay. Let's take your idea and run Cheney!

"Sometimes, though, it's pretty funny to watch the Right scramble to parse some evil shit out of Obama's rhetoric. You guys seem a LIIIITTLE bit desperate...hee hee hee! And from now on, you should try to remember typing 'MR. PRESIDENT OBAMASSIAH'. Unless we have a nice bloodless coup, and the Blackwater Junta helps Old King George keep his kingdom."

Okay, let me practise...

... heee!

heee!

heee!

HEEEEE !!one!!!

heee!

heee!

HEE EEE!!ELEVEN!!!

Sorry, but "dark" doesn't equal "great". It just makes it a more realistic Batman movie, which has benefits AND drawbacks.

Actually, I haven't seen it yet. Hope it's good.

WTF?! Did Nolan not allow Harry to blow him or summat?!

"You're not in the film industry. I am." - you work in a DVD Rental shop, yes?

I'm sorry; do you have to be "in the industry" before you can appreciate/dislike a film properly?

My main point is, Harry seems to be going deliberately against the grain with this review, or is narked about something, so is taking it out on the film. This is a man who nearly orgasmed to death watching TPM, remember...

But no love for Maggie's 'Rachel"? Made me forget all about Joey Katie Tom's incubator . She was a tough cookie. No, not a cold hearted bitch. A Tough Fucking Cookie.

Harvey did have the broadest storyline and when comparing it to the other performances, for him to stand out how he did is just amazing it its own right.

You know the worst part of the movie for me was Bale's perfomance - and something I thought I never would say. I love Bale. I would have sex with him. But it was like he was the catalast of conflict instead of the CONFLICT. This, if for no other character, felt like the only "Act Two" part of the movie. Also, what was with the growly "Batman" voice? Are you trying to disguse it? Because I just think you just need a Richola.

(I "reviewed" a talkback. Lame.)e

I haven't seen the Dark Knight yet, but I can't wrap my mind around how it could possibly be better. And yet I keep hearing that it is. Amazing.

For whatever it's worth, the only misstep of the first movie was hiring Katie Holmes. Yeah, I do realize how awful she was.

The movie is ambitious and loaded with great performances (and a surprising number of cameo-like familiar faces). I feel there is a sense of total confidence in the intended scope of this movie - it's just incredibly well made. I will no doubt catch another screening.

And Heath...

...thanks for giving one of the most memorable performances I've seen in years. It is something special.

Well, I would like to suggest that if something doesn't suck, then it be referred to as:

FLIPPED THE BATPOD.

Example: "THE DARK KNIGHT was awesome! It totally flipped the Batpod!"

Steady on.

I have no idea where Nolan can go now either. If they do choose to do a third one, I'm of the opinion that they may want to go smaller but have the resolution/conclusion go out on a big heroic note.

Histrionics and caricature isn't that incredible.

So basically, you're saying that if I don't agree with your level of hyperbole then I shouldn't be allowed to watch movies?

Yeah. You're an asshole.

I'm a fixture here. Ask any of the AICN old-timers, including the staff; They've known my writing for over a decade. -- Who the hell are you? I've never even seen your name here before. What are you, in your teens? in your twenties? Grow up, kid, and come back when you have something more creative to say. (And if you aren't a kid, then I'm sorry. I didn't know I was picking on a retarded person).

Fuck you. I'm entitled to my opinion, and considering that I didn't even pan the movie, and gave it a good- not perfect- but good review, you have nothing to stand on.

I didn't say it sucked, but little whiny fanboys shitheads like you, acting all crazy over a less-than-perfect review are sure to sour my opinion if you keep this bullshit up.

Jeez. You remind me of a Whedonite. "IT'S ALL OR NOTHING! YOU EITHER LOVE IT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE OR YOU'RE THE ENEMY OF THE FANBASE!" -- Seriously? Is that your attitude? Then fuck you AND Batman. I'd say it deserves an even LOWER rating because the hardcore fans are total fucking assholes about it.

Thought the cast was outstanding. Everyone deserves props.

Hopefully they will make a third. Love to see Nolan and crews vision of the Penquin or Riddler.

Glad I went.

fucking amazing. i'm so glad i didn't read any spoilers for this.

harvey dent's character put this over the top into that stratospheric tier of films.

as for next movie's villains... bring back two-face and joker? or just one of them? PLEASE BRING THE RIDDLER INTO THIS. the riddler would make for a fucking amazing film, topping the twists and turns of this one. the penguin could be alright too, but the original burton films still hold a special place in my heart so i see no need to revisit that. batman forever's two-face was fixed, now fix riddler.

i'd say use two-face and riddler with cameos by the joker in arkham or something.

I don't get why so many people have a problem with Joker getting out of the apartment. How the fuck did he get in?? POLICE ESCORT. Did we really need another scene showing the cops walking him out?

I don't believe Two Face is dead, I'm on the "he's locked away in a basement at arkham" crowd.

I can buy the whole cell phone thing, I'm not a fucking scientist though, so forgive me. I have watched Mythbusters though, and they proved the whole grappling/climbing gun cannot work with current technology. So, if you're willing to buy into that, why not buy the cell phone thing?

'He who trades freedom for security is neither free nor secure.' - The Lefty Liberal, Benjamin Fucking Franklin.

My point about your post was, that given its otherwise thoughtful approach, you were being a condescending prick. Like I give a rat's ballsack about what you think about my posts.

Nice, how you didn't mention how your whole 'This movie = 9/11 political bullshit' scenario falls apart when Batman doesn't give the Joker the fitting end the bastard deserves, eh? Yeah, I told you man, if it works, it works. But in real life, torture for pre-emptive means DOESN'T WORK. According to the CIA.

Uh, nevermind. I forgot. Chuck cannot be beat.

This is why I think Two Face is alive. Batman thinks by keeping him alive and trying to help him, while portraying him as dead will help the city & Harvey, but if Two Face escapes it will cause even more chaos for Gotham.

(ok, because I know you're not good with subtext... I agree with you, a third installment is a sure thing at this point, and since Nolan has stated he thought it was a mistake to kill the Joker in '89, I doubt very much he intended to kill off Dent in this movie, as Dent would be a good character to use in a third movie, kinda like he used Scarecrow in this one, especially since Nolan won't be able to bring back Ledger's Joker. Does that make sense? Sorry for telling you to fuck off, that was kinda harsh, but man, this is talkback, so I think we have an understanding, ok NGE? Thanks.)