if it was some guy, instead of some girl, no one would care. but you're all so threatened by a strong woman, your only recourse is to lash out at her and call her a hack.

with all the horrendous films out there and reality TV nonsense and just pandering crap, someone that writes a funny, touching and sincere film should be applauded, and YES should get more work and more recognition.

you know it's true, but you're too scared of the fact that she has a vagina to admit it. pretty fucking sad.

Anyway, the ending was kind of nice but any enjoyment I got out of the movie was tarnished by all of the stupid shit coming out of the characters' mouths.

The line about the pie balls was good.

P.S. Fuck Mark Steven Johnson. Fuckin hack asshole.

"Honest to blog?"

It would have made a good afterschool special in the 70s if not for the whole "cooler-than-thou" attitude. Oh, and Mori, relax.

But seriously, you are afraid of women. Especially women with more talent, cooler friends, more money, and lives that are infinitely more fun than yours. And we all know where fear leads- to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads where? That's right! To the dark side!

Don't be so afraid of the ladies, boys. They aren't harmless, but they know you are.

All this to say, Juno was a helluva lot better than that abomination Garden State, but absolute crap compared to anything Sarah Polley has written down on a napkin.

Oh none? Well then that makes you kind of irrelevant then eh?

And your point regarding "overhip dialogue" where you said "You don't fault an author if you don't like the font used for the book", you used a flawed analogy because Cody actually is a writer. So, "overhip dialogue" in a film written by Diablo Cody would be comparable to "overhip dialogue" in a book written by an author, not the font.

Juno was a whiny, twee flick. The dialogue was cringeworthy and the story ridiculous. Not as many people liked this movie as people think. Everyone I know who saw it couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. And if you don't think Cody sells herself as much as any other whore actress out there looking to climb the ladder, you've already fallen for her lapdance schtick.

So stop being so high and mighty and pretending your gallant or something. She's probably not going to suck your dick for defending her on the AICN board, not when she can blow big time directors now. You missed your chance, pal.

Did I dislike Juno, yes, but do I dislike Diablo Cody, no, how can I dislike or fear someone I don't know. Am I jealous of her success, of course, I have scripts sitting on my shelf and in my head that will probably never see the light of day, but I applaud her courage to step up and make a na me for herself.

I think Juno had it's good points and it's not so good points, I loved the STORY but didn't care for the char. Juno herself was too hip too cool too full of herself. She was the center of her universe, I felt, and the world bowed to her feet. She wanted sex so she had sex, she wanted to have the baby so she had the baby, she wanted to spend time with the adoptive parents, she spent time with the adoptive parents. Everything was about Juno.

I was also disappointed by the emasulation of the men. Not just Jason Bateman, but Micheal Cera, and JK Simmions. Each give into Juno's demands and whims, each never really stand up for themselves. typing this out now, I see that Juno is making the same mistakes with Cera that Garner did with Bateman.

Charterzation was also lacking. Every char. was a stock char. with no real devolpments or beats, they stand out only because of the actors that played them, except for Juno herself. Watching RoboCop we see him as Murphy not Peter Weller for example. However in Juno, we see Jason Bateman doing Jason Bateman, we see jennifer Garner as jennifer Garner, we see JK Simmions as JK Simmons. Honestly can you tell me that Bateman ISN'T playing the same nervous scared geekboy that he played in The Kingdom, Mr. Magorium, etc. Is Jennifer Garner really any different, self assusured confident, strong, full control of what she wants but still vulenerable and scared and nervous, then she was in The Kingdom, 13 going on 30 and the one with Kevin Smith? JK Simons as the tough, loud, brash, loveable guy he's played so well in other movies. Cera as the geeky loveable loser? She created stock char. and fileld it with actors who are known for doing these types. there really is no orginality in it. Juno stands out because, I believe, she is Diablo Cody's idealized version of herself at 16. Even Rainn Wilson's cameo at the beginning is stock and standard for Rainn, why is Dwight working at a convience store in whatever town Juno takes place in

Reality, listen I know movies are reality but that's what everyone kept saying "oh this movie is so real" no it's not, kids don't say "no it's Morgan Freeman" or "Honest to Blog" I have an 18 y/o brother and a 11 y/o sister "OMG" or "TTYL" are more likely to come up then HOnest to Blog. One thing I learned doing television news with my eye focused on going to HOllywood was the rule "Show don't tell". Cody, like a lot of young inexpirenced screenwriters, which I consider myself in, Tell Don't Show. Telling us that she is on her hamburger phone after we can see she's on her g-d hamburger phone. Her language or her little blonde friend telling us how she's different at school instead of showing us she's different in school

On a personal note I hated the weird Retro/modern hybrid that was so popular in Napelon Dynamite as well. Choose a time frame and stick with it, everyone has cell phoens and texts, noone uses landlines anymore, who wears stretchy head bands and knee legth stripeed socks?

I dislike Diablo Cody as a writer the same way I dislike Paul Haggis as a writer. Cody gave us Juno, Haggis gave us Crash and Million Dollar Baby. All won awards they didn't deserve. It has nothing to do with me being afraid of women, but annoyed that crap gets recognition. If the woman who had written Lars and the Real Girl had won the award, I wouldn't have a problem with it as she was infinitely more deserving.

I've read the Juno script numerous times and it never gets better. It's just a series of snappy banter with the requisite tender moment thrown in here and there. If Tarantino or Paul Thomas Anderson had written Juno, my opinion would be no different.

I don't hate Cody, I'm just waiting for her to impress me and earn the Oscar she didn't deserve.

With regards to Spielberg, Indy 4 was a huge misfire but then again so was The Lost World and War of the Worlds. The haters who keep saying he's lost his touch are delusional. In the past decade he's given us outstanding cinema. He's always ready to make reparations for his turkeys. He followed up the Lost World with SPR and Amistad. He followed up A.I. with Minority Report, Catch Me and The Terminal (sue me, I liked it). And after dropping War of the Worlds on us, he offers up the olive branch that was Munich. The guy has directed or produced at least a dozen movies that would be in most fanboys top 100. Indy 4 was a misstep of epic proportions but it's a good bet he'll rebound.

Actually, I thought Daniel Day Lewis's Oscar was well-deserved and no one else in that category even came close to his performance. Who do you think deserved that Oscar? Tommy Lee Jones in "The Valley of Elah"? George Clooney in "Michael Clayton" where he played a character very similar to all his other characters? That wasn't hype at all.

And should we fault a writer for the "tools" they choose to use? Of course! Their choices in their work determines the quality, and with phrases you use like "I get crazy with the cheez WHIZ" (Beck reference?), I can see how you like her choices, but I find that type of language annoying and pretentious. I can see how maybe the film spoke to some people, but not deserving of all the praise it received. And its rare that I know all about a writer before I see a film, especially a first-time writer, but I did in Cody's case thanks to the hype machine.

I certainly won't post several dozen times a day like I did there simply because I'm neglecting my job.

I just wanted to wade in here to give my two cents. This TB is going to get ugly and mark my words, the ban hammer will come down more than once.

and just for the record, despite what a lot of peole think, Kansas was never for implrementing intelligent design instead of evolution, only teaching both parts of the issue

Um, they're getting paid, you're just a fucking customer. Who's degraded?

You know, that when people are talking about being afraid of women, or hating women, they aren't talking about one specific person, right? That usually the discussion is about larger issues that face us as a society and a culture, right?

I'm not sure if you really thought you were deflecting the 'fear of women' stigma, or if you knew what the hell you were talking about at all.

The second point is about your claim that if Juno had had an abortion there would have been no movie—I believe you are incorrect. I’ll bring up my another gripe I have with the movie here because it is tangentially related (and so we understand, if the film had been sufficiently funny, humorous or eventful, this probably would not have been a problem for me) that is, Juno’s unpleasantness as a person. I think that “Rushmore” and “Ghost World” recognise that their protagonists are fairly dumb/unlikeable and that they have a sense of distance which make this easier to digest, “Juno” doesn’t. Juno’s decision to go to term and to give her baby up for adoption bears absolutely no examination whatsoever, AFAIC. Based on the movie, I was only able to come to one of two conclusions, one- that she was a poorly rendered character or two- that she was a capricious idiot. But Juno lives in a world where everyone is 100% supportive of her and every stupid thing she says or does. Why did it only occur to her that Jennifer Garner might be a good parent 2/3rds of the way into the movie when that’s the thing that *should* have occurred to her, um, *before* she agreed to give her child to the woman in the first 30 minutes of the film? The movie’s late breaking streak of sincerity made me want to puke. The point I’m trying to make is that this movie is so much about the eponymous character, and her perspective, that the actual events themselves are pretty irrelevant.

Okay, so I’m going off the topic which is about whether this film could have been made if Juno had had an abortion. Pretty much, yes. Considering the way the reality of being pregnant is glossed over in the film (almost entirely, IMO), considering that to the main character it’s just another wheeze or wacky thing (like furniture on the lawn! Like a pipe! Like a hamburger phone!), considering the fact that movie is called “Juno” not “Up The Duff”… This movie is about a snarky alt.chick who has sex, gets pregnant, goes to a family planning clinic, worms her way into the life of a frustrated yuppie couple, bonds with the guy, realises he is bad and his wife is good, realises her stepmom isn’t all that bad, realises she loves her dorky f*ckbuddy and gets him. It’s not about pregnancy or childbirth or children or what having a child does to you (unlike “Knocked Up”). During the scenes where Juno is supposedly in crisis because the yuppie couple are having problems she honestly seems less concerned about, you know, the baby and it’s future than she does the couple and theirs. I think that the pregnancy is a borderline* random USP and tantamount to a MacGuffin in that it’s only a catalyst and as a specific thing, seems very replaceable. It doesn’t surprise me that Diablo Cody has no biological kids, I don’t mean that as a slur, just an observation.

Cody certainly has potential but I think that it will probably be stifled by “Juno”’s being more successful than it should have been. I honestly think she’s getting patronised here *because* she is a woman. And that she’s getting patted on the head for a half-arsed job. Like I said, “Lost in Translation” was a good movie but that doesn’t mean I think that Coppola deserved a screenwriting award, there wasn’t much of the story and I suspect that the effecting characterization was down to a lot of Bill Murray improv. Similarly, many “Juno” fans rave about its ‘heart’ and how it got better once the dialogue toned down. Well. The way I see it, the grating dialogue *is* The Diablo Cody. That is what her thing is, that’s what she brings to the table and that’s what she needs to work on. I don’t think that a lovable Michael Cera or a flawed Jason Batemen or a charismatic J. K. Simmons are really her achievements, you know? If this new project is another attempt at quasi-realistic, slice-of-life then it will be completely awful, genre flicks are the right way for her to go, IMO.

(*) But even an poor film (and I’m not saying “Juno” is poor) knows it can induce otherwise unearned emotional with a childbirth scene.

There must be other female screenwriters out there but I have no clue what they look and like and no idea what their backstories are and I'm saying, Cody has held herself out for this, in some ways, and I'm sure she can take it. And like Kevin Smith she is herself a snarky nerd and like Harry she's on the internet and opinionated and like Troy Duffy she's the subject of a load of hype. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's *fair* that anyone's weight, or wife's appearance, sexual orientation or past employment should make them a target (and I'm pretty sure that Tarantino's past as a video store clerk has been creatively worked into slurs against his movies, you know?) but why step in to defend Cody when all Talkbacks are like this?

I think Cody's background is relevant to my criticism of her not because I am a conservative or a misogynist prick but for *precisely* the opposite reason. Why was "Juno" so reactionary? Why did why did the plot reject even the slightest edginess (i.e. the Winter-Spring Romance... you know Alan Ball would have went there!)? No condoms. No drugs. No cellphones. No casual sex (get this, the kids were *in love* all along and will probably end up married. BIG SIGH OF RELIEF. So that 'Casual Sex'? Retrospectively *okay*). I didn't want to have to get so involved but I felt I had too. For me, "Juno" was like a Bait-And-Switch. And again, this kind of stuff doesn't just happen to Cody, I'm guess it might have been hard to tell on here, what with only 0.03% posters being female, but Judd Apatow came in for some stick when "Knocked Up" was released and his most vociferous critics, after the people who objected to the profanity and drug talk, were women. The soi-dissant feminists at that. His gender came up-- believe that it did...