One big thing is that they shouldn't have Dick Grayson be a kid. But I think Nolan's too smart for that anyway. Yeah he'd have to be a teen or a young looking guy like they did with Chris O'Donnell. But they would need a much better actor to pull it off.

He should only vere be used as a spy/scout/lookout type of thinsg for Bats, under strict orders to not get into the fighting, then show him getting nmore restless and them drifting apart as he goes through his teenage maturing.

This could actually work quite well under Nolans type of Bat Universe, much better than 20 something Chris O'Donnel, which was just awful in so many ways.

Wont miss him if he is never in it, and he should not appear for some time yet if he is, Batman is too young yet, remeber this is only the second film and we started with how Batman becomes Batman.

Far too early to be discussing Robin

Dick Grayson following the death of his parents could be living like a real robin, living ferally in the nests/homes of criminals who have been sent to the hospital while they are gone.. He has no grounding, as a vigilante, he goes too far and as a person he's absolutely a failure, He's essentially Batman without the technology, without discipline and without an Alfred to give him any kind of moral compass. Originally Batman sets out to catch him, but on realising who he is and what happened to Dicks' Parents, he tries to save him, Batman catches him going too far at crime scene, and decides to help him to stop him turning into what he looks set to become. Robin can be Mirror to Batman and also his shot at redemption in some ways.. Having said that, I haven't seen the Dark Knight and what happens there might render this idea completely more worthless than the fan spec it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =XiZuvJ48MZ0

There's no way Robin would work in the Nolan universe.

THAT'S why I hated BEGINS, and fear for DARK KNIGHT: because if that scoop above IS true, Bale seriously doesn't understand what he's in: a FUCKING COMIC BOOK MOVIE! It's NOT HEAT 2!!!

Of course, the full-fledged red, yellow, and green Robin of the comics or the TV show would never work in Nolan's universe. Robin would have to be done in a more indirect roundabout realistic way, as they've done with Joker. Perhaps never even really showing young Dick Grayson in costume. Either way, Robin is an important element of Batman's universe. He represents Batman's guilt, an element which would fit right in with fear.

Think about it: The Dark Knight and... Robin? Eww.

I'm not a big fan of Batman begins. I thought it was boring. gritty and dark, yes. interesting, most definately. Captivating? no way.

but I enjoy the foundation that it laid down for this next outting, and after seeing the promise of hervey Dent's two face for the next film, I'm sure as hell looking I'm looking forward to seeing how Robin is brought into the fold.

If they choose to simply ignor him then they're NOT making batman films.

besides, imagine a third or forth film called THE DYNAMIC DUO

all you babies saying that the costume wouldn't be any good... I don't care how good this dark knight film ends up being.... that batman costume is fucking horrid

honestly, i don't know what you guys want?

In the original comics, bruce made a conscious choice to reveal himself to Dick greyson and train him.

If Nolan can't do that in his vision of batman then he's as useless as sam raimie

But, to even possibly make it work somehow, you'd have to make Robin, say, 15 or 16 years old. O'Donnell was just a bad idea. Much too old, and they acted as if he was a teenager. Just dumb. Maybe if you had him as troubled kid who Batman kinda feels sorry for, who goes off on his own acting like a vigilante. Maybe Bruce stops him in the movie, and the kid only fights crime temporarily, and isn't his official partner. We've gotten a different version of other characters. Why not tweak Robin a bit?

Anyway, the entire premise of a R just wouldn't fit into the Nolanverse. I mean, why would Nolan's responsible, realistic Batman take a little kid and dress him (or her!) up in a helmet-less, bright red and green outfit? That's ridiculous. "Say, Batman, when do I get sleeves and a helmet?"

"When you grow up, chum!"

but if we see the time and effort Bats puts into training him it would seem less crazy to have him actually go out and fight alongside Batman.

Robin should NOTT be in the next Batman film. Christian Bale is 100% right.

Two-Face will be dishing out rough justice. And Riddler, with his superiority complex and green tie will--if Batman fails to solve his riddles--cause more shit than the Joker.

That will be enough.

Robin's arc is predictable, boring, and unnecessary.

Fuck the Foxx herself, don't you ROBIN-WANTERS want to see Batman do some things by himself?

I also heard Michael Cain make the comment in an interview that he thinks some other actor COULD play the Joker for the 3rd movie (hinting that this was the original plans of Nolan) and that Heath would have wanted it to happen. Something along those lines anyways.

I just hope that if there is a Robin, he's British because no one can do the most American super hero like the blimy brits.

Never understood why G.I. Joe gets the real American Hero tag? Maybe it was when they first came out, but now its pretty obvious that they are a multi cultural orgainzation. Superman is from space, and Batman is from New York. There is so much cross-pollenization between USA and UK, you'd almost think that we came from them.

you need a character to balance out Bats, or he goes off the deep end. he needs someone to care about, or else he's just the Punisher who breaks bones instead of killing people. which can be cool, for some stories. but saying that Robin does't fit into his universe, or even into the Nolan universe, is a stretch.

does he belong there yet? no. but i think they will need him if this series keeps on for a few more movies.

thanks.

Do you think all the other Batman's get invited to the press screenings of any of the new Batmans? I mean wouldn't it be awesome to have all the actors who played Batman sit around and talk about how cool George Clooney is (oops sorry was thinking like George Clooney there for a second), I mean talk trash about the new Batman and how they were better? I wonder if they get invited at all? It would be a cool thing to see all the actors who've played Batman at every new opening of Batman (until Val Kilmer gets too fat to walk). Or do you think that they are all too Diva like (Clooney...probably Kilmer) to show up to it? You know Adam West will, shit you could probably tell him that he actually is Batman in this newest movie.

Just wouldn't it be cool to go to the premiere and there sitting together is all the Batman including Kevin Conroy, and throw Burt Ward and Mark Hamil in for fun? I know that that isn't the point of the new Batman's, but come on without those there wouldn't be this.

They will introduce Robin's character early on but he will never actually become Robin in the film. (Considering the age difference between the two characters, it's much too early for him to be partnering up with Batman.) However, I can totally see them doing something like the way they introduced the Joker at the very end of BATMAN BEGINS. It's not a big unveiling but more of a foreshadowing; a hint of great things to come. With that in mind...

...I've thought for awhile now that they might do the same for the Batmobile. I always viewed the Tumbler as the chassis or starting point for the more trademark/recognizable Batmobile. How cool would it be to have the final shot of the third film be a big smile on Bruce Wayne's face as he sees the all new, sleeker Batmobile for the first time?

Batman TAS started sucking after they added Robin, B&R would have sucked about 1/4 less without Robin, the character just seems tacked on for the younger readers or viewers, he's annoying, mostly useless, and he dresses like a fag. Just like the kids his character is aimed at.

And if Robin indeed "gays up" the Batverse, what does Alfred do? He's an older male entrusted with rearing a young boy. And then later on helps out with first aid and late night snacks when his "young master" comes of age and decides fighting crime dressed as a bat would be a keen thing to do. (BTW, he's not dressed as a demon or a even bat demon as some have suggested. The character is known to one and all as Batman because he's a man dressed like a bat, period.)

If Robin is superflous, so are many of the other foils/second bananas in popular media.

Dr. Watson is totally lame! Like, why does Sherlock Holmes even keep him around? Holmes always figures out the case on his own in the end. Plus, Watson gays it up by making it seem Sherlock only perfers the compnay of men.

Docto Who and his Companions. Thankfully the Doctor has the good taste to focus on traveling mainly with nubile young women...although there was that young Scotsman who rocked a fierce kilt, the alien math whiz who got angry when the Doctor chose to go exploring with the Australian air hostess instead of him, and the scheming British schoolboy who still dressed as a British schoolboy despite not really being a British schoolboy. The Doctor totally could adventure on his own without a Companion by his side. But if he needed the occasional assistant, better that it be a she...perferably a she from a tribe of sexy savages short on clothing and high on barely bridled passion.

Captain Kirk doesn't need Mr. Spock. Or Dr. McCoy for that matter. Heck, what does Sulu ever do but drive the ship? Let's face it. Star Trek would've been much more interesting if Kirk just kept the galactic peace without the annoying compatriots constly giving him advice and useful information. Spock is always getting touchy feely to boot. McCoy might as well be the spurned, jealous lover the way he views Spock's hovering presence on the bridge.

A thought: maybe Robin is so maligned because he cockblocks fans from imagining themselves as Batman's partner/confidant. It used to be the sidekick was a stand-in for the reader, who back in the day were mainly young children around the age of 10 or so. Today's comic book audience...let's face it, if they're 10 and can afford comic books, their parents must be rich of the kid has a massive paper route. The modern comic book reader is in his or her late teens or older. So the original connection Robin provided is now outmoded. That's why the grown-up Robin, AKA Nightwing, gets a pass because he's now an adult contemporary for Bats, not the young student learning from the master.

Well, the point is all moot if Nolan has no plans for the Robin character (any version) anyway. Still doesn't change the fact that Batman works best, and will always work best, as a comic book character. The movies may be an interesting expression, but they don't surpass the source material.

Personally, I hope Bale and Nolan both quit the franschise after Dark Knight, before Warners makes them deliver a Spidey 3 or X-men 3 (you know it's inevitable). They don't need that for their careers and neither do we. We all know The Dark Knight is gonna rule. Job well done. Time to move on.

have him show up and offer to be his partner, have Bruce train him.

true, it would be a PR nightmare in Nolan's world, but no more so than shooting through walls and driving over buildings and doing everything else Bats does.

Exactly. Fucking moron.

So remove that. "Proto Robin" is a teenager who figures out through research and observation that Bruce Wayne is Batman. He approaches Bruce, who undoubtedly rebukes him but is nonetheless impressed with the kid's abilities. (Perhaps you could have Alfred half-jokingly suggest that they "silence" the pest if the Bats doth protest too much.) Robin begins tailing Bats, training on his own to prove himself worthy. He enters the fray...gets his ass royally handed to him and only Batman's intervention saves him from death.

But instead of being scared off, Robin's determination is renewed. He can't take on the big baddies like Joker, but he's able to beat down the muggers and goons who pester the average Gothamite.

When Bats sees the kid ain't gonna give up, he sends him off on a similar training trek that he himself went on all those years ago. Yeah, it'll take years for Robin to evern approach the same level as Bats, but eventually he becomes a proficient crime fighter.

Still, Batman is the ultimate loner and outsider, while Robin is all about teamwork. But what better way for Bats to provide a lasting legacy than to train others to become protectors like himself. They can't be carbon copies, but they can fully participate in the same world Bats moves through.

add in the rise and fall and rise again of Batgirl/Oracle and i'd be even more stoked.

Nolan found a way to make scarecrow a legitimate nemesis in the first movie, and as far as the Batman universe goes, he's one of the weakest clowns in the whole batch.

and having not seen more than images and trailers, he's managed to take the WORST cartoonish goodball villian in The Joker, and make him a legitimate nemesis as well.

So why wouldn't he be capable of turning a cartoonish side-kick into something legitimate? I think Jake Gyllenhall would make for a good Robin. But I say you do away with the 'travelling circus family marked for death for no apparent reason' backstory and just make Robin his real name and abandon the whole 'he's a cute little birdie' concept. Just call him Robin because thats who he is and give him a black batman-style combat suit and move on with the story.

and because the Nolan fanboys are all worked up cuz its July finally.

And in my defense, a little douchery every now and then can be quite cleansing!

the biggest problem with any kid hero is that eventually people want to see him grow up. but no one wants to see Batman get any older, so Robins come and Robins go.

who says fag anymore? besides backwoods lowlifes and guys who are trying real hard to suppress their homoerotic thoughts, of course.

You called it correctly. I made a sweeping generalization.

But those who have pointed out that Nolan's nixed the Boy Wonder have made the most pertinent point: no sense in arguing about Robin's merits if there's no plans to include him in the movies.

He has a role in the comic books. That's enough for me.

Instead of all the innuendo we saw in various sources, just come right out and SAY IT. Batman doesn't have to be gay-- Maybe he's bisexual. He's a playboy, after all.

That would explain Robin's costume (really, guys: tights with green panties, elf-shoes, a red doublet, and a cape? Dandy, much?) and it would be modern and real.

What? You can accept a guy who dresses as a bat and hunts criminals by night, but you can't accept a homosexual relationship?

Just do it. It's been implied for ages, so why not just bring Batman out of the closet? Let him be free! Batman could be the Captain Jack Harkness of Gotham.

(How much of my post is sarcasm? I will never tell, but it will be fun to see the fanboys squirm at the idea of Batman being a twink-loving bisexual.)

It is perfectly in keeping with Batman Begins that he would take on a protege, especially one who lost his family in the same way that Bruce Wayne did. And for the first film, he should be 10-12 years old. The key is in how you write it. Bruce Wayne needs to Robin's FATHER not his creepy gay uncle.

Bruce Wayne needs to evolve in his public persona, becoming a more stable member of his society, more involved with the workings of the city. Batman will evolve into more of a lawman than a vigilante. And Bruce will evolve in his true identity as he begins to build a family for himself of like-minded crazy people who want to make a difference.

A better story than having Richard (Not Dick) Grayson live with Bruce immediately after the death of his parents is if Bruce tries having Richard live with Leslie Tompkins, who took Bruce in right after his parents died, and who works out of the halfway house built where Bruce's parents were killed. But Richard is uncontrollable, and his background as an athlete give him physical advantages as he acts out against the other kids. So, Bruce takes him under his wing and begins to teach him better outlets for his rage. Alfred takes to him immediately and everyone begins to grow and heal. Then, as Richard gets more curious, then he discovers Bruce's secret...and he decided to become a vigilante and go after Two-Face.

You might not need to ever put him in costume--or he is dressed as Robin Hood for Halloween and gets into a fight. Bruce begins to see that he might need a successor, that he won't be around forever, and he sees Richard as the one to become Batman someday. The other thing is that you never have him be "The Boy Wonder". You see him help out as a little kid in one movie, then you see him as an older teen/adult vigilante in the next film--maybe he is working independent of Bruce, and the Batman doesn't know who ROBIN/NIGHTWING is.

But, the point is that Robin was important for Batman's evolution. It is where Batman gores up. It just needs to be done right.

Also great points about the whining fanboys who really do not know enough about comics history.

And I don't think Robin was portrayed well in the Shumaker films either. Odonnel and writing didn't help but that costume was dumbass supreme...his gear was dumb, gymnast becomes ninja was dumb (Gymkata anyone?!), etc...ugh. Robin is 'King Kong and the big door in the impenetrable fence'...don't matter how you film it...it's still kind of a dumb character (or in KK's case, dumb idea).

Robin just has bad all over it and I think it's best to leave him on the old shows and comics. So far as I know, Batman is the only hero (DC or Marvel) with a sidekick. Shit, the very mention of sidekick makes my eyes roll. Could it be done? Probably. Could Nolan do it and make it work? Likely. Does that mean it should be done? Abso-fuckin-lutely not. Nuff said. He's an unnecessary distraction at best. The interplay between Joker and Batman works better without Robin. Much harder to capture the nuance of their relationship on film I think...without the whole gay distraction thing or weirdness of a 30-something guy living with a teenage boy not related to him by blood. It's just creepy. It could be done...but it would be a tightrope walk with complete shit on one side and total pigfuck on the other.

Trying to base these movies in a real world and making superhero films this dark is risk enough. Lets also not forget what he did with Joker, everyone cried at the casting of Ledger, the scars, the general look and possible performance of the character. And now everyone who has seen TDK is praising the portrayal of Joker the most.

Besides, in my opinion Robin is not doable in these movies. If they did that, Batman would be branded gay or a pedophile by the audience. There is not enough lightness to these films to support a innocent relationship between Batman and Robin. In other words the world they created is too grim and hostile for sustaining something like that, and it's too realistic that endangering a child in that way could only be proclaimed as lunacy.

With all that said, Robin was never such a great character to begin with, Batman can do without him both on the big screen and in the comics.

thats funny shit, if so.

The way I see it, the character does not fit in to these films at all.

btw, robin is and has always been a lousy gimmick.

that seems a bit short sighted, which is your beef with "most Talkbackers". how is saying that any less shortsighted than someone saying that Robin should be in?

See, you said it yourself, it just sounds like a bad idea.

Personally, I like Batman a lot better than Robin, I have boxes of Bats comics and always get turned off when Robin shows up. He's more of a crutch to Batman if anything.

"The haunting and visionary Dark Knight soars on the wings of untamed imagination. It's full of surprises you don't see coming. And just try to get it out of your dreams."

Then Batman's taking him in would bring the idea of his character full-circle and make him the teacher/father figure/mentor and he can even ask young Grayson "Why do we fall? To learn to pick ourselves back up again.."

The problem of Robin is twofold:

How you present his costume/character.

And how young he is in battle.

So, by introducing the character as a foil/dependant/acolyte for Batman without making him into Robin, you give the Batman character what he needs and don't insult the tone of BB and TDK...

John Hamm from 'Mad Men' as Batman. That guy IS Bruce Wayne.

As Robin, Natalie Portman as the Carrie Kelley version. Dyed hair.

I know that in these talkbacks, mentioning something about sexuality, gender, etc, is like talking about universal health care in congress, but bear with me.

you find a very androgynous actor, and make the Robin character neither definitively a guy or a girl, just leave it completely open. have Bruce Wayne inquire about it once, and the reply is, "does it make a difference?" and wayne shrugs and that's it. THE FIRST TRANSGENDER MAIN CHARACTER EVER IN A HOLLYWOOD FILM! (not counting the clapping chickdude from X-Men 3, since it sucked and s/he was in it for 3 seconds)

it would be huge publicity, and garner huge support form the LGBT community, and it would definitely be a worthy addition to the growing list of comic book Batman staples that have been reinvented for Nolan's Batman universe.

come on guys, if you're honest, you know it would be cool...

2. If Batman really cared about Dick's wellbeing, he wouldn't steal him away from his loved ones in the circus.

3. If Batman really cared about Dick's safety, he wouldn't dress him up in a brightly colored, short-sleeved, very helmetless costume. The kid might as well have a target painted on him. And moreover, he would be so visible that you could track Batman's movements, too.

4. How many of you have ever met anybody with blue eyes and black hair? Well, DC would have you believe that Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson and Tim Drake all have those traits.

5. If we have a Robin then, according to unspoken modern movie rules, Robin must be given a girlfriend, lest people make jokes about he and Batman. But a lot of Batman fans really wouldn't stomach that on the big screen.

6. We all know the Dick Grayson storyline and many of us are sick of seeing it again and again and again.

7. Dick Grayson = Scrappy Doo = Chibi Moon = Chauchie = Cousin Oliver = Heroes Season Two = Schumaker nipples on the Batsuit = topless Batmobile = killing-off Bat-villains = FLAMES ON OPTIMUS.

8. Someone voiced concern over a Batman who's too dark because Batman Returns disturbed them. To them, I say, BR was not dark -- it was Burton. Give us a Dirty Harry Batman any time.

Robin is a part of the batman lore. I would rather see how he's brought into THIS universe over the crapped out "we're too fucking high and mighty to have Robin"

look, I'm not a robin fan, per say, but i am a batman fan. Robin SHOULD be brought in, even if only briefly. has no one ever heard of story arch? character development?

So when Nolan says no Robin, I trust him, and you should too.

Nolan could do it right, believe me. From what he's done so far, he'd make a HELL of a good choice as to origin and reality of having a 'kid' sidekick. Bale probably didn't say this, but even if he did, I think all it would take is some convincing on the brothers Nolan's part.

Batman decides to take the kid under his guidance. Hell, they wouldn't have to live in the same house, all you have to say is that the Graysons were fucking famous and had a bajillion dollars, and died when Dick was 18. He trained for a few years, hell, even make him train with Al Ghul's people during the time that Batman is out learning how to be Batman in Begins, and they point him like a weapon at Gotham, sort of a Plan B...But Grayson never intended to be a Ninja for hire, just wanted to learn ways of hurting people. Hell, I could write this little story up, and I don't even do this shit for a living...yet. :)

That said, let me school you guys who've come late to the party on Robin...

1. The fans voted to kill Jason Todd. Not Robin. Jason Todd was a whiny prick that nobody liked, except Batman.

2. Robin's outfit in the comics in the beginning was not meant to be a Robin Red-Breast kind of thing, but a Robin Hood kind of thing. Brightly colored was better than black, because in those days, not everything was grim-n-gritty. Which is why Batman to this day has a big ass penny in his house, to remind him that once, the criminals were more stupid and goofy than evil and cunning.

3. Dick Grayson is a good character now as Nightwing, and was a good character since he was part of the Teen Titans back in the day. The red tights thing was a throwback to his acrobat days, and if you were modernizing the story (as Nolan seems to be doing) you could do ANYTHING with the costume as long as the metaphor of Robin stays the same (Young sidekick of Batman that isn't all grim-n-gritty).

Anyway, that's my comment on the people who keep tasting shoe leather when they talk about this character. I don't even like Robin that much, and it's not appropriate to do this now in the series. Batman doesn't need Robin in this particular series...I'm just saying it can be done, and not be totally fagotronic.

"I'm Right! You're wrong!!"

We're just like world government! No one can see the other's opinion, no one wants to listen--when if you think about it BOTH SIDES ARE FUCKING RIGHT.

Look--it is too soon for Robin in this series. BUT ROBIN IS IMPORTANT.

We need to have at least two Robins, one of whom is killed, so someday we can have THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS as a movie...which is something that DC and Warner Brothers really, really wants...and would work as the Batman vs Superman that some fans have been asking for.

The problem that everyone has with Robin is that when anyone hears the word, they expect Burt Ward...which is NOT how they would do it now. Robin will wear all black or very muted colors if they made him now, maybe with a hood, to emphasise the Robin Hood origin of the character. If Nolan (or whoever they get to replace him) took the time to keep with the "realistic" world that Nolan and Bale were a part of--there are many different ways to bring Robin and other allies into the fold without it being cheesy, "Gay" or stupid. I guess everone "He-man" on this talkback has never had a son or younger brother who grew up in front of them...because any adult male who hangs out with a young boy MUST be a pederast of gay.

Fucking Idiots.

And Pro-Robin-ites...It will not happen in the next movie, and possibly not while Nolan and Bale are attached...we'll just have to deal with it.

Justin Long is my choice for every role Shia LaBlah has every taken.

The key ingredient would be Dick's age. You don't want to make him older. That was already done in the Burton/Schumacher series and even the '60s TV show. I think you make him a young kid who Bruce really feels a kinship to and wants to "protect" from the world and this hardship. But just like Bruce, Dick's revenge grows and seethes to the point he wants to take the law into his own hands.

And so, in a sequel to the film he's introduced in, Dick's going around in a costume modified from his circus togs trying to fight crime, perhaps inspired by the Batman, who he doesn't know is Bruce at this point. While he can hold his own to a degree, it's far too dangerous for a kid to be out there. Bruce tries to steer him in other directions, choices he didn't make in his own life, but Dick is defiant. Discovers Batman and the rest is history.

While Robin makes some appearances - against Bruce's will - he's mainly the partner in the lab, helping out, studying. When Dick is a teen, he goes out into the field, again against Bruce's better judgment, and something happens to hurt him. Batman essentially "fires" him, setting up that animosity that existed in the comics between Bruce and Dick for so long. This will eventually push him into college and his assuming the Nightwing persona.

I don't see Nolan going past 3 films in this series, but I also don't see WB discontinuing it once he leaves. So I think Robin could work in the next cycle of films, but should be introduced gradually, not just in one film. His story should stretch 3 or 4 films and as a secondary story to Bruce's. And the relationship between Bruce and Dick could be realistically defined as Bruce looking to protect this kid and them grudgingly becoming friends as Bruce ironically finds this is the only person he can truly relate to in the world. They become family without having all those cringe-worthy "family" moments people try to shoehorn into the story.

I'm in the camp that believes Robin - and especially Dick Grayson - is an essential part of the Batman mythos. I also understand the inherent cheesiness that can come from a kid fighting crime beside a fractured man dressed as a bat, donned like a Merry Man in the brightest colors he could possibly find. It's a minefield, but if handled with respect to the themes of what Dick represents in Bruce's life - and with muting the colors and leaning on the evolution of the Robin costume the comics have taken - it could be done, done well and fit within the Begins/TDK universe.

He's got a crummy homelife (his dad's screaming at his mom in the background) at the beginning, loses his parents during the Arkham Asylum breakout and is wearing a red t-shirt over a green sweatshirt through the whole movie.

Seems like a Robin set-up to ME!

(2) Have him basically play the dude Scott Caan played in BOILER ROOM - some fucking nutjob stockbroker who kicks ass for fun.

(3) He clashes with Bats. Bats then sees that the kid is basically him minus his guidance and decent upbringing, decides to retrain him and raise him right. It doesn't go that smoothly.

(4) Hilarity - and that grim realism Bale and Nolan do SOOOOOOOOO well - ensues.

(5) In the end, Robin does it right and earns Bats' respect, and we're all better people in the end.

Nah, you're all right. This shit is NEVER gonna work. But then, Bale's Batman is as much fucking Batman as Daniel Craig's Bond is the real Bond. Fucking clown shoes.

Listen, if you're gonna invoke the continuity of the comics to compare to these movies, you're gonna have to do WAY better than the Jason Todd run on Batman as proof of Robin sucking...30 years of his character NOT sucking balances out that year and a half, I'd think...Kids, it's not gonna work for this Batman, unless it can be written well. And all the problems in Begins were writing problems that REEKED of Goyer. Who has passed his prime, and the Nolans took this one over. I'm keeping spoiler free for this one, and I'll give you my opines on it once I've seen it in IMAX.

As an aside, I love the Batman character and would see this movie if it were called 'Batman Cornholes a Dog on Broadway...WITH SINGING!'.

Seriously.

1. He's too unjustifiably gimicky. He shoots ice.

2. He's one of those many characters who was given a name based on his destiny. A guy named "Victor Freize" turns himself into a popsicle? C'mon, man. That's unbelievable.

3. He doesn't want to steal but has to in order to keep his suit functioning. Why not just move to northern Alaska, Freize?

4. Over and over again, the man claims he has no emotions. But he does or he would never get angry... or lonely.

5. Do you really want to see Batman and Robin again? Because as bad as Arnold and Schumaker were, that wasn't too far from the best that could've been done with such a gimicky character.

if everyone was like you and thinking THAT was the only was to bring in robin, then you are as visionless as Bale is with his comments.

don't bullshit me about Robin doesn't work in this universe. What UTTER shit. Seriously, you and all the robin haters here are mentally challenged.

Robin CAN be brought into this universe. The same way the Joker has been brought into this universe, and the same way Two face has been brought into this universe. Robin too CAN and SHOULD be brought into this universe. He doesn't have to be a little pansy in red and green tights. The same way Batman doesn't have to be in a flapping dark purple cowl with white eye brows.

Fuck 'batman & Robin' and even 'Batman forever' as refernce points - This is an all new batman, and I for one sure as hell would rather see how Robin is brought into the mix.

harvey dent gets his face melted off in this film. I'm pretty sure they'd give any story arch involving the introducing of Robin it's just due.

that said, I'm all for dropping his name in favour of 'nightwing'

But, yes, he is dressed as a demon. Those aren't ears and they definetely don't resemble ears. While I will conceed that he started out in the comics as a man dressed as a bat, that quickly evolved into a demon of the night costume. Not even a fear-enducing gas could cause anybody to think of him as resembling anything other than a monster. The one and only bat-like feature his costume has retained from his early days is his cape; that's it. What were formerly ears have since become horns. As for the signal on his chest, forget the fact that it's called a batsignal for a second. Does the head on that really look like a bat's? To make a Batman costume at its bost basic, you just put on a Zorro costume minus the hat, put on some black horns, and then wrap a cut up Dracula cape around you, minus the collar. And after that you throw in a cross between a construction worker's belt and cop's utility belt, and there you go; you're the Dark Knight.