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first
by NovaBlue
Jul 2nd, 2008
05:15:44 AM
first
No more zombies
by krushjudgement
Jul 2nd, 2008
05:27:27 AM
I'm getting bored with pointless undead titles. They used to be cool. Now we get 15 new z titles a month. lame.
R.I.P. Mr. Michael Turner
by Havokscry
Jul 2nd, 2008
05:29:50 AM
I've never met a nicer person in the comic book industry. You put up one helluva fight. You will be missed.
Final Crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
by DuncanHines
Jul 2nd, 2008
05:31:50 AM
God damn it! We have to wait 3 more weeks for #3!!!! 2 was brain-melting!
Batman made him read the entire internet.
by fiester
Jul 2nd, 2008
05:44:38 AM
Heh. Okay that's funny.

But 1985 looks dumb. Anyway, hasn't it been done before--wasn't there a comic that depicted major events in the Marvel Universe through the eyes of regular people?

DEAD GIRLS CANT SAY NO
by Conans Sword
Jul 2nd, 2008
05:57:39 AM
seriously what the fuck is with the undead love lately
Final Crisis is WANK
by Steve Rogers
Jul 2nd, 2008
06:11:20 AM
I really wish DC would get their heads out of their continuity-minutiae-obssessed arseholes.
"return of a much-missed hero'
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
06:44:04 AM
What was missed about him? His blonde crew-cut? His complete lack of personality?
can someone point me toward spoilers for 1985?
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
06:48:59 AM
I'm not reading it, but I'm curious as to what's supposed to happen that COULD even be spoiled. I finally read 'Old Man Logan' at a Borders store this week. Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha. "Wolverine's All-Time Greatest Adventure"... Well, you guys said it already.
Problem with Time Traveling Bullet.
by Smerdyakov
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:12:48 AM
Is that it's still sits there as evidence. Like a regular bullet, you dig it out of the ground and it's forensic evidence, just older. It only works if you shoot someone on something that moves. Don't think too hard about anything Morrison writes.
Laserhead
by Steve T
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:16:39 AM
Good point, He's been a much better and mor einteresting character dead, so everyone could build up his legend
Don't forget Robinson's "Comic Book Villans" movie.
by Smerdyakov
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:21:00 AM
Filmed in Turd-O-Rama.
Yeah, it's zombie overkill alright.
by rev_skarekroe
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:21:24 AM
We need a new monster to be the next hot comic fodder. I vote witches.
Upon thinking about Final Crisis more...
by DuncanHines
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:27:25 AM
Steve Rogers, you are right about DC and their obsession with continuity, but, they're doing right with Morrison on this book. The thing about it is, Morrison has proven his ability in taking "tired" and "unworkable" concepts and making them work. Read Seven Soldiers. He took some useless characters and made them almost legendary. Now, he's doing the same thing with the entire DC Universe. DC knows what they're doing. Morrison knows what he's doing. They're getting my money and attention, and Final Crisis is hella entertaining.
Hey Rev Skarekroe...
by DuncanHines
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:29:05 AM
Witches would be cool. Howzabout cannibal obese spoiled videogame generation children?!
Fiester...
by BangoSkank
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:42:06 AM
Yes, there was a comic (Marvels, I think) and the two have very little in common. I don't know if 1985 will be any good, but I dig the vibe so far.

I still think "Wolverine's All-Time greatest..." is a tongue-in-cheek throwback to the comics Millar grew up with.... He's adopted it in all of his Marvel stuff, and I sort of get a kick out of it.... 'Cause it reminds me of my childhood, back when I could believe that, yes, it just might actually be the all-time greatest adventure.... Ahhh, the not-so jaded far-flung past....

Final Crisis most mediocre art for an event
by messi
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:49:11 AM
DC fans are fucking blind, if they can't objectively tell this is mediocre art then they need to read better books. Then again Marvel has all the best artists. DC's best books look like marvel's worst ones. I can't believe a year of lead time and this is the best JG Jones could do. Looks like the finishing art from countdown.
And yeah....
by BangoSkank
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:54:16 AM
I didn't think I could ever burnout on Zombie comics.... but I most certainly have.
Final Crisis... meh...
by Kid Z
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:54:18 AM
...call me when it's collected into book format and is on sale in a bargain bin at Books-A-Million. Same with 1985, but I'll buy it off Amazon when it's released.
say what you will about zombies...
by dingus khan
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:54:50 AM
...this is my new favorite poem. Walking in the dark with a stomach full of meat. I search for meat.
Thanks, DuncanHines
by rev_skarekroe
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:00:01 AM
If anyone doubts witches as the next big comic monster trend, please read the most recent Hellboy trade. Witches galore, and it's excellent. As for you idea for cannibal obese spoiled videogame generation children, that's an ok idea, but I like a little fantasy in my comic storytelling.
What?
by sean bean
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:07:18 AM
"Marvel’s event this summer was painfully lacking a ground level-type perspective." Hang on, we're only three issues into Secret Invasion. And anyway, there are enough spin-offs to look at the ground-level perspective without cluttering up the main storyline. And I'm not a big DC reader at all, but love Grant Morrison so I gave Final Crisis a try. Couldn't make head nor tail of it. I was confused then I was bored. DC's problem is that their big events just aren't accessible to the wider audience.
Weapon: Brown
by RenoNevada2000
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:08:32 AM
What makes me think I saw artwork for this a while back, at least 9 months ago?
Where's my list of cheap shots?
by Series7
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:09:20 AM
What am I paying you for anyway? Sending me into a comic store unprepared as to what I want to buy is like sending a...i think I have to poop, something ain't sitting right in my stomach... a something I don't know I really have to poop and can't think of anything funny to say.
Sort of agree with you all about zombies...
by Ambush Bug
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:13:50 AM
...but I love the genre anyway. Just like anything else, this means writers have to work harder in order to make them entertaining. ZOMBIE HAIKU is definitely something you've never seen before and stands out in the crowd of zombie books as one of the best.
Smerdyakov...
by bottleimp
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:18:28 AM
I actually liked COMIC BOOK VILLAINS for what it was-- an ode to the obsessive fanboy collector. Plus, it's got the Dread Pirate Roberts playing the heavy, which I find hilarious.
FINAL CRISIS...
by bottleimp
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:21:21 AM
... is better than I first gave it credit for, after reading issues 1 and 2 consecutively. I think that DC's biggest mistake was shoving the COUNTDOWN series down readers' throats as a lead-in to Morrison's book, when it now appears that COUNTDOWN events are irrelevant to CRISIS.
DC got greedy...
by Ambush Bug
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:26:52 AM
They saw that 52 was somewhat successful (which at least was planned out), then released COUNTDOWN without much of a plan, and lied to us with a title that only counted down the weeks till the event with no other tie ins. DC lost me with that meneuver. I'm still reading FINAL CRISIS, but I'm dropping a shit load of DC comics after being dicked around like that.
Mark Millar is so overrated~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by crackerfarmboy
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:27:13 AM
I am so sick of hearing his name being used synonymously with Marvel. He's terrible at developing deep stories. He writes Michael Bay style action stories with several sleezy depictions of your favorite characters. He's a hack, yet he gets so much love from Marvel from some reason.
Still Waiting For FINAL CRISIS To Kick In
by LaserPants
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:43:32 AM
Yeah, so far, not all that impressed. I liked the bit with the Japanese superhero otakus, but I still don't quite get what the hell is supposed to be going on. I'm hoping next issue actually gets on track and starts making some kind of narrative sense.
On DC art suckage
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:00:36 AM
They do have the best writers and worst artists (except for Ivan Reis, the best superhero artist currently working in the business). You know the one I have the hardest time wrapping my head around? Tony Daniel on Batman. I mean, this arc looks like it's going to have long-term ramifications, and even if it actually doesn't, it's Grant Morrison's Uber-Bat story, so it's probably something I'd like to revisit down the line... and it's illustrated with sub-90s Image/McFarlane scratchy bullshit art; lots of lines that do nothing for the illustration other than clutter it up and mask the artist's lack of understanding toward anatomy and dimensionality. Come on! Say it with me-- this story deserves SO much better in terms of art. They should have put Kelley Jones on R.I.P. Or Klaus Janson even(thinking of 'Gothic'). What the fuck is Klaus Janson up to these days, anyway-- besides illustrating DC's 'how-to' books?
Can anyone here explain the whole Millar vs. Knowles
by Series7
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:10:27 AM
Bet that happened some years ago? Something like Millar lost a $50,000 bet to Harry? Does anyone know the whole story or got a sweet tiny url for me to copy and paste?
Also
by Series7
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:28:07 AM
Can anyone explain Secert Invasion to me? I'm late to the game for that one.
series7
by saddael
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:33:00 AM
great film, by the way. basically secret invasion is the skrulls looking to conquer earth after the annihalation wave decimated them. they have done this by replacing super hero's and impersonating them. Gret, you'll be thinking, what a cool way to retcon spidermans marriage and outing as peter parker oh..
Hey, Sean Bean...
by stones_throw
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:34:42 AM
I enjoy your acting, dude, but yer dead wrong about SECRET INVASION. "We're only three issues into it"? Isn't it five issues long? That's most of it over with by my count. And, as I understood it, the main storyline was sold as pretty much INVASION OF THE BODYSNATCHERS in the Marvel universe, which, although fairly derivative, is quite a cool idea. But in a story like that it's more than an oversight not to show at least some ground-level impact. You shouldn't have to buy the tie-ins to get what should be in the actual story.

But good work in those LORD OF THE RINGS movies. Just stop playing the bad guy in crappy Hollywood action flicks so much.

Still think FINAL CRISIS is fairly simple
by stones_throw
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:40:41 AM
It's about the New Gods. Darkseid defeated the good guys in a cosmic war. Now he's going about subjugating Earth (where the new Fifth World is set to rise) on the quiet, while Libra acts as an agent for him with a new Secret Society of Super-Villains. Evil won, and the heroes have to come up with something.

It's been said elsewhere, but FINAL CRISIS is the one Big Two event this summer to actually have a secret invasion. SECRET INVASION should just be called INVASION, like the Nicole Kidman movie.

Is Final Crisis purposefully using as many mundane...
by qweruiop
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:42:46 AM
...and unpopular characters as possible and throwing them into the forefront of things? Dan Turpin? Black Rider? Metron? Anthro? Mirror Master? Wtf? I had to seriously look up a lot of these on Wikipedia to get some history on them. It was like Morrison went back to some 1982 DC comics and picked out the most random unheard of comic book characters out of a batch and said "here's who we'll make into a star with this series". What an ego. It's like Morrison purposefully did this to prove that he has the golden touch and can make anyone popular. I thought the teaser posters of Final Crisis showed the big leagues, like Superman, Lex Luthor, Joker, Wonder Woman, and that they were going to be heavily involved in everything. That's what would sell a comic no? Instead all I keep seeing is Libra (who the hell is Libra) being pushed down our throats as the next biggest baddie in the DC Universe. Ugh, count me out.
The battle of good and evil is over: bad logic won
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:46:12 AM
C'mon. That's just bull. How many times have good and evil fought, and evil ALWAYS comes back?

What, "good" loses one stinking battle and suddenly, its over? We're not allowed to come back?

I mean, I appreciate pithy high-concept tag lines as much as the next guy, but I call bullshit on Final Crisis.
Final Crisis
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
09:53:46 AM
What I mean, if that last post didn't say it so well, is "Where's the big battle that Good lost?" DC is making this big claim that Good lost, but where? How? Did I miss that? Who called the victory? And if that's true, why is THAT the final battle? (As if that's going to happen...)

I said it before, and I'll say it again: FINAL CRISIS is the emperor's new storyline. We're being told its a good plot, we WANT it to be a good plot, some of us are hoping that we're cool enough to see it's a good plot...

But there's nothing there. Not yet, anyway.
FC
by steverodgers
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:01:15 AM
i haven't read it - but can someone tell me if killing all the new gods is really helping the story along, because watching from the sidelines it just seem like gratuitous nonsense that I don’t see how can help DC in the long run. also, is kamandi in there? If they kill kamandi -then DC is dead to me.
rock-me
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:06:20 AM
Those're pretty much my thoughts about the whole "Good Lost!" thing. I think Final Crisis is very simple... every time somebody summarizes it. But the actual way it's playing out feels like the most important, relevant scenes are not being shown at all.
I don't get it, Rock-me
by stones_throw
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:11:10 AM
Of course good is going to come back. That's the whole point of the miniseries. I don't really think it's going to end with Darkseid victorious. Morrison's just trying to push the heroes to their extremes before they rally back.
However, I'll give Morrison this caveat--
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:12:46 AM
--at any moment a story of his is capable of turning on itself and showing you, the audience, that what you thought was a strange, boring, almost pedantic narrative is actually one of the coolest and most moving stories you've ever read. It CAN happen. But I agree that SO FAR, there's not much there...
EXACTLY, rock-me Amodeo
by LaserPants
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:13:59 AM
So this war between the New Gods and Darkseid happened... When? Where? Why? How? If the major event in your book happens in another book or has to be explained rather than shown? That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. I should be able to pick up issue number 1 of any series and immediately get a sense of what is going on. With FINAL CRISIS, I'm not getting that; I'm getting hints of a cosmic war that I don't even get to see? Lame.

I mean, so far, sorry to say it, if it must come down to a "war" between the Big Two, Secret Invasion has been much more satisfying (boring KaZar digression aside) because its actually delivering the goods -- global war of apocalyptic proportions. Morrison should easily be able to pwn Bendis, but, as of yet, nope. Thats why I'm hoping that things start to kick in with issue 3. Obviously, its way too early to judge yet, and I'm willing to give FINAL CRISIS the benefit of the doubt, but, as of now, I'm not satisfied; it needs to kick in and start being a good story or else they're just wanking it.

Either way, and sort of off-topicish, the only books that I eagerly await and am truly excited about these days are Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, and Nova. They, to me, are the front line books. Theres lots of other cool stuff out there, sure, but the GLs and Nova are the books that really get me excited these days.
"good is going to come back..."
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:21:13 AM
well, sure. but I don't even see where good 'lost'.

Where's the slave camps of fallen superheroes? Where's the totalitarian Nanny-state (besides current Great Britain, that is.) Where's the mandatory carbon tax, and $100 late fees from Blockbuster, and all comics being written by Judd Winick, and all the other things one associates with the triumph of evil?

I know good will come back, but I don't see any evidence that good lost. A bunch of Fifth World gangsters running numbers does not an Apocalypse make.
no cheap shots?
by steverodgers
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:30:51 AM
boring...
"A bunch of Fifth World gangsters running numbers..."
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:31:17 AM
Nice line, and spot on. Another irritant is that the heroes are acting like it's the most incredible, world-turned-on-its-ear event-- that a New God was found dead. When they've been dropping like flies in two different series over the last year. And among the heroes there seems to be an attitude of "too bad about what happened to J'onn, but hey, what about these New Gods?", which doesn't feel right, to say the least. I was hoping (and still hope) that this summer would be about Grant Morrison showing Brian Bendis what a real comic-book writer, not a bad TV writer, can do with the medium... but, so far?...
rock-me Amodeo
by rev_skarekroe
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:46:06 AM
All that stuff you're looking for is in the old JLA arc from the late '90s. The one where Morrison already wrote about Darkseid taking over the world.
"Rock of Ages"
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:52:22 AM
Nice reminder, rev. That does seem to be the ultimate Grant Morrison, evil-won/good-lost, Darkseid-centric story. And it's great. One of the best superhero kills ever, too: Green Arrow and the Atom fucking kill Darkseid. I went back to that run recently, and it seems like everything Morrison's doing now with Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis is another attempt to tackle stories he first tried in JLA and Aztek.
Rev - great story, but...
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:00:43 AM
If I recall, Darksied didn't win, in the sense the crisis was averted. Much like every other "we have to make sure this timeline never comes into existence" storyline. I could be wrong, I don't have the issues in front of me. So again, where is the battle where good lost? (I'm being rhetorical, not trying to be a pain to YOU per se.)
WAKE UP JEFF!
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:07:12 AM
Sorry, I've been watching a lot of Wiggle's lately. But it occurred to me that no one has shown up with blistering 'ad hominem' commentary that criticizes the reviewers themselves (yet hardly touches on the material reviewed,) and, well...hence the headline. (heh) I figured he must be asleep.
Well rock-me
by hst666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:12:33 AM
I am not entirely sure what to make of your "nanny-state" or "mandatory carbon tax" statements, but it's possible you could be one of those fucking retarded repugs complaining about "insidious political correctness" and how it's not proven that mankind is contributing significantly to global climate change.
The NeoCon "Insidious Political Correctness" Meme
by LaserPants
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:24:54 AM
Is hilarious. Basically, it all comes down to fat, ultra white wing, hate-mongering, theocratic, rich white guys being allowed to say the say the word "nigger" without feeling bad about it. It just pains them so much that they can't. Boo fucking hoo. Oh well, they're time is up anyway; thanks to Dubya singlehandedly destroying the Republican party in just 8 years. See ya in November when a black man becomes President!
well hst666
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:36:44 AM
Gosh, it would be horrible if I had a different opinion than yours, yes? Or worse, if I actually had the SAME opinion as you, but wasn't scared to see any flaws with it. Or use sarcasm to illustrate it. THAT would just be unbearable.

As far as the nanny-state comment, did you know that there is one security camera for every 14 people in great Britain? Did you know that they are now attaching speakers to many of those cameras so that someone can instruct a passerby to pick up garbage or move along? Did you know that they have just started mandating a limit as to how many holes a salt-shaker may have because apparantly people are too stupid to use a correct amount of salt? Did you know that they've just instituted a policy that if their childrens packed lunch is deemed to have too much fat or sugar, the lunch can be confiscated? I know that marching in Orwellian lockstep sure SOUNDS fun, but after the first 100 pound fine for not having your garbage container lid FULLY closed, it's not as much fun.

As far as the other comment, very similar. While I think that certain problems need to be address, I'm not sure I like the idea of everyone's wallet being forced to genuflect in the direction of the government coffers.

Can you handle that, or do you need to call me some more names to mask your confusion?
Darkseid DID win.
by rev_skarekroe
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:38:33 AM
Well, it was an alternate future, but IIRC Darkseid had conquered the world and driven the heroes underground. I don't recall whether or not any of the battle was shown in panel or not though, if that's what you're asking. And of course, the heroes won back the world in the end (as mentioned above, Green Arrow ((the Connor Hawke Green Arrow no less)) and Atom killed Darkseid and there was some sort of crazily complicated Morrison time travel stuff) but that's superhero comics. It always has to resemble the status quo eventually.
Final Crisis & Rock of Ages SPOILER
by mattb127
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:40:49 AM
DARKSEID IS! I have to admit, I am probably the biggest basher of Dan DiDio's murder/rape fests, BUT holy CRAP is Final Crisis delivering! Four MAJOR events in FC#2, involving Batman, Superman, the Flash, and Green Lantern. I like the surreal scenes with Turpin--the whole thing is pretty frickin' harrowing. Finally, the DC Universe heavyweights are treated like ants next to even the "minor" agents of Darkseid. ***SPOILER ALERT*** that scene where Kraken (the Alpha Lantern lady) tells Batman that "they're eating my mind," and then she tells Batman, "The life you knew is over." Totally freaky. End SPOILERS. There are weird moments, but that should be expected, given the cosmic, unknowable threat Morrison is defining Darkseid as. At first, I thought--you know, they kill off the Martian Manhunter (which I don't feel is a spoiler because there are big frickin' ads everywhere explicitly about it)–– but I went back and reread that scene, and it's pretty insane. They just haul him in a room and stab him. That's how easy it is! It's like they're toying with the DC dudes, the s#@t with Lois?! Holy crap! In Rock of Ages, there's an allusion to that, but it was back when they had Electric Superman, so it doesn't quite apply--at any rate, okay, I'm sold. They better not chicken out!
Oh and Mr. Sinister...
by mattb127
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:43:11 AM
Really? Starman better than Sandman? I always felt that whole run was a little overblown. The Mist stuff was cool. I loved the demented old Mist talking to the Shade. That's pretty much all I remember about that series, and also having a boner for Madame Xandadu.
Funny how after you called for Jeff to wake up
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:47:43 AM
Somebody else immediately showed up with an ad hominem attack-- and one that wasn't even sure of its own appropriateness. A kind of 'just-in-case' rant. Cute.
Rock-me
by hst666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:55:29 AM
Hey, hey, hey. Back off a bit. You asked for attacks on the man, and I made one. Don't get pissed if someone responds.

To your actual points, the instructions, garbage lid fine, and lunch confiscation do sound terrible. Cameras and saltshakers? SFW. I am a total social libertarian and I have never understood the objection to cameras. When you are on the streets, you have already chosen to be in public. How is this a violation of your civil liberties? Ordering you to pick up something should engender a go fuck yourself response.

The problem with the environment is that it is a shared finite resource. I am not sure what kind of carbon tax you are envisioning, but this is usually applied to businesses based upon their output and rewards those companies that minimize their impact.

Also, the phrase Nanny state is generally term invented by corporatists and PC chicken littles who want to return to a buyer beware world where the don't have to take any responsibility for their actions. It sounds like you have some legitimate gripes. (Do you actually live in the UK? - I may be moving there for 3-4 years next summer.)

Oh, THAT'S A Nanny State!
by LaserPants
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:56:38 AM
When you said nanny state, and you mentioned Britain, I thought you were talking about a totalitarian state ruled by Mary Poppins. I thought, "Gee wiz, what's he on about? Mary Poppins would make a fine Emperor what with her magic and generally cheerful disposition. That doesn't sound awful at all!" But then you had to go ahead and bring up the cameras, and the fines, and stealing children's lunches. Clearly Mary Poppins has been taking more than a few cues from her secret nemesis -- Martha "Fucking" Stewart. ITS A CRISIS I TELLS YA! SOMEONE SEND SUPERGIRL! CATWOMAN! ZATANNA! No, not to save the day, but to my apartment for an extended 'wrestling match' or 'training session' with a very, very happy ending. Badoioioing! Oh, behave!

No, but seriously, the idea of near total surveillance of all goings on by camera smacks a wee bit too much of 1984 and it kinda scares the shit out of me. Mostly because I reckon a little harmless illegality is important, and also, I don't want to have jackboots kicking my door in for not eating the required amount of state-made frankenfood.

But seriously, seriously, WHY NOT have this going on in the FINAL CRISIS? Hardcore apocalypse death camp of the evil gods spooky awesome? I really hope Morrison starts delivering... something. As of yet, a "yawn" and a "huh?"
Just for a minor clarification
by hst666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:59:32 AM
The subjects "corporatists" and "PC chicken littles" should be reversed in the first sentence of my last paragraph. It makes a little more sense that way.
stones_throw
by XAOS
Jul 2nd, 2008
12:28:55 PM
Secret Invasion is 8 issues, not 5, and as was the case with Civil War and World War Hulk, SI:Frontline will be providing the (totally optional) man in the street perspective on the events of the invasion. Also, the Invasion of the Body Snatchers was the lead-in; at this point it's pretty much open war with a handful of shape-shifty mindfucks thrown in.
"Insiduous Political Correctness"
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
12:41:30 PM
I don't wish to see the most traditionally civil talkback turn political, BUT, as a professor in academia, I can say that this shit has got out of hand, at least in higher education. And I'm not fat, right-wing, or wishing I could say 'nigger.' I'm talking about making other people responsible for your feelings and endowing words with powers they don't inherently possess. Roth's 'The Human Stain' made this argument beautifully, and he ain't no right-winger. That's all.
I confess...
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
12:47:18 PM
I don't know what a corporatist or a PC chicken little is (are?). So I didn't know that they use the term "nanny-state" either. Perhaps that injected a degree of emotion i was unaware of, and if so, I apologize.

When I use that term, I see a society that has entrusted the government to do all its thinking for them: what they should eat, what they should wear, what movies and books are "safe" to view. A world of labels on aerosol cans that must state "do not spray into eyes while aflame" and such. In this increasingly litigenous society, it seems that only the government can be safely entrusted to determine what is and is not allowed. (And that scares me, since I don't think they have handled their NON-intrusive responsibilities very well. Like the old song says, "You can't even run your own life, I'll be damned if you run mine...)

If selling something, I think everyone should be held responsible for the flaws of their product. But not the common sense misapplication of that product, because that will be the death knell of common sense. I already see it happening.

I recently read of two youths who died. They were at the end of a pier and wondered if it was safe to jump off. "They're aren't any signs that say we can't." And so they did, and leapt to their deaths. Because they expected a sign to tell them they should not!

I'm sad that more people want to be in a world where they EXPECT the government to rescue them from their own ignorance. Conversely, I don't want a world where the government assumes I am too stupid to live without their constant interference. But I see it coming: the nanny-state. The kind of total control that Sinestro would love: no chaos. Absolute order. The sheeple are well taken care of. And no room to complain if they are not.

So back to the original point, THAT seems kind of evil. To me, anyway.
And now...
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
12:51:42 PM
I gotta get back to work. Great discussion, gentlemen, on comics and everything else.
Zombies man................they freak me out!
by garcicr
Jul 2nd, 2008
01:02:53 PM
I love me some zombie horror Cant wait for the Max Brooks Books and just finished reading Day by Day armagedon.. you gota check em out.
The Max Brooks stuff is good
by krushjudgement
Jul 2nd, 2008
02:05:26 PM
Don't get me wrong, zombies can be done right. But they are just a plot device. You still need all that other plot and character stuff in there to keep it interesting.
I move that either Laserhead or Laser Pants change his/her name.
by Greggers
Jul 2nd, 2008
02:30:20 PM
Being that it's getting a little confusing keeping up with who is the Laserhead and who is the Laser Pants, I move that one of them change their name. And I give the advantage in this matter to the one who agreed with me when I was assessing comics and their relationship to children in the Talkback from a few weeks ago.

Failing that, I move that we ALL change our screen names so that they all begin with the prefix "Laser." That would make me "Laser Greg," which, all things considered, is kinda cool. So I could go either way on this one.
Sorry, hst666, but you're not a social libertarian.
by SleazyG.
Jul 2nd, 2008
03:13:34 PM
If you can't see the problem with cameras everywhere...if you truly can't comprehend the implications...not only are you not a libertarian, but you fail to grasp the vital underlying tenets of libertarianism. And if you can't see why it's ridiculous that I, as a designer, must have six holes on my salt shaker instead of nine due to government mandate, then...wow, man. Just wow. I suppose you also don't see a problem with microphones on city streets recording your conversations, because you're "in public", after all. Because I assure you, after the cameras, the microphones are next up. Shit, they're already using speakers...how hard is it to throw in a coupla mics while you're at it?

Oh, and by the way? All men must now wear teal shirts, so that we can tell which ones are the men. Any man caught wearing a shirt color other than teal will face a 100 pound fine. SFW? As a social libertarian, I think teal is a perfectly nice color, and don't understand why any men would have a problem wearing it.

Greggers
by Laserhead
Jul 2nd, 2008
03:22:23 PM
It was me! ME! I agreed with your brief essay about comics and children and arrested adolescents! ME! I don't know who was here first, but I took the name 'Laserhead' because a guy I know in Hollywood told me that it's a nickname Tom Cruise gave himself and insisted people call him. I don't know if that makes me lose points or gain them, but one of us should change his name, and I sure do not feel like doing so.
JeffAlbertson Please Register
by optimous_douche
Jul 2nd, 2008
04:58:39 PM
Please come hang out with us on theybannedme.com. Your particular brand of verbal parle would be most welcome.
Final Crisis and Countdown
by ian216a
Jul 2nd, 2008
06:43:42 PM
I don't really understand why people don't think that countdown was a lead in to Final Crisis (but I fully understand why you would think that it was a bad lead in to Final Crisis :) ). Having said that, I was reading the Fourth World Omnibus's along side countdown and got to appreciate the full extent of how both series - and seven soldiers for that matter - are pulling ALL of Kirby's DC stuff into the mainstream of the DCU. Even seeing the Hairies turn up in countdown gave me a happy moment, as did the Evil Factory turning up in FC #2. But seeing Sonny Sumo back again was a real geek moment for me - loved that. Going back to my original point, all the New Gods dying and the Monitor plotline from Countdown all tie into Final Crisis, the former being what I thought was provoked the 5th world incarnations we are seeing in FC now, as predicted by Metron in Morrison's JLA run. I'm sure the real story behind Libra and how he has managed to return had got to be related to the new God's too. I think that DC made some serious mis-steps on the way to FC but 3 points remain. 1) The Kirby love-in is really cool. I mean REALLY cool. 2) The FC book itself is as entertaining as it is mysterious - almost like the DCU version of Twin Peaks. 3) The FC spin of books are definitely the comics I'm most anticipating this year - The Red Lanterns story, Johns and Kolins back on the Flash, and the return of Superman Prime with 3 Legions. MMMMMMMMMMM
Well LaserPants, you heard Laserhead...
by Greggers
Jul 2nd, 2008
07:22:50 PM
I'm afraid it's your head on the chopping block. As sound as your views on FINAL CRISIS and civil liberties may be, your laser-themed name has got to go. No use arguing, I'm speaking on behalf of the community here.

May I offer some suggestions for new screen names?

PhaserPants

BlasterPants (that's got a ring)

Beam of Coherent Electromagnetic Radiation Pants

FancyPants

SmartyPants

PleatedPants

GreggersRulez!

You see, LP, the possibilities are almost endless!

Of course, the community may have to change its ruling on this in light of mitigating evidence, such as "LaserPants" being a family name. (Could be Ukrainian or something.)
May I discuss Red Hulk? (Spoilers)
by BetaRayBill07
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:01:03 PM
How ridiculous is this concept anyway. Yes, I can't wait for the Turquoise Leader to make his first appearance. Although maybe this should wait until the all new Purple Thing makes his debut going up against whatever color Hulk is around this month. Ugh. Red Hulk using a gun of some sort. Red Hulk has an attitude (weak) and apparently is revealed to be a long-time Hulk character who already had green hair. I hope Thor kicks the living crap out of this waste of space next issue. BTW....what happened to the intelligent strategizing ready to break the world King Hulk? Now all of a sudden he's back to "Hulk no speak right, Hulk back to old time talky talky." Ugh. I long for Peter David's Gray Hulk. Best Hulk ever. One thing though, even after all of this- still not as bad as Brand New Day.
Superman 677 was horrible...
by hopewell1
Jul 2nd, 2008
08:42:05 PM
Superman chatting with Hal about how hot Jade was. Are you kidding me? A dead hero and Superman is telling Hal how lucky he was? Sorry, not my Superman. He's remember that Kyle was with her and not forget she freakin died.
C'mon Jeff
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:08:10 PM
You know I was just inviting you to the sandbox. Thanks for showing up!
After Red Hulk there will be...
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 2nd, 2008
10:11:24 PM
Yellow Hulk. The more scared he is, the stronger he is. Then there's Blue Hulk...the calmer he is, the stronger he is. Then Purple Hulk...and next summer, the Black Hulk! (Not to be confused with Black Goliath...)

trust me, it's all going to be very original.
But I Love My LaserPants!
by LaserPants
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:28:25 PM
You can't take my internets name from me! YOU CAN'T!!! (LOL)
Btw, Good Point Laserhead
by LaserPants
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:33:48 PM
But do you really think there is some kind of greater danger in this "insidious political correctness"? At worst, its just annoying; hardly a crisis. But I do agree in the sense that it can be rather irritating; the self-righteous indignation that people pretend to hear when they hear words they find offensive.
sleazyg
by jmyoung666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:39:07 PM
Please enlighten me. While I am confident I understand libertarianism more deeply than you do. I want to hear your libertarian rationale against cameras in any are where you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. The salt shaker stuff sounds incredibly stupid, but I am sure the British police aren't busting people for having salt shakers with differing numbers of holes. I would rationally assume it applies to saltshakers for sale. I would guess there are lots of salt shakers in existence with a number of holes other than 6. Further, I have never seen a salt shaker with more holes than three. I did not think such salt shakers existed anyway.
cameras in any AREA
by jmyoung666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:39:40 PM
aLSO
by jmyoung666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:40:15 PM
Also
by jmyoung666
Jul 2nd, 2008
11:41:19 PM
If you cannot see the difference between cameras in public places and a government dress code then I believe you may be logic impaired to begin with.
rock-me Amodeo
by messi
Jul 3rd, 2008
12:19:10 AM
good losing and driven underground happens in issue 3.
I Can See The Difference Between Cameras And A Dress Code
by LaserPants
Jul 3rd, 2008
12:19:55 AM
But the real problem is, how can I look fabulous in teal overalls when I'm being spied on by some lecherous and overzealous bureaucrat with a wall of monitors and too much time on his/her/its hands? Thats what I want to know! I gotta say, if I must be a citizen in a totalitarian state, I want to look my best at all times; especially whilst hatching back-alley plots to overthrow Big Brother. That video could end up on YouTube! I want to look my best in order to better capitalize on my brand and therefore create synergies across a wide spectrum of consumer markets. 15 minutes! Thats all I ask! My 15 minutes in the spotlight of the klieg light as I'm lead to the Re-Education Center to learn the Joy of Work, and the Freedom of Slavery.
ian216a I agree. Thanks for saying so.
by Rufferto
Jul 3rd, 2008
01:59:54 AM
And that countdown ties in that much is enough for me, since it was awful and most of the characters they used in that were to.
Can't follow final crisis? Confused?
by Rufferto
Jul 3rd, 2008
02:24:32 AM
Get used to it. That's how this guy writes. He probably thinks his ideas are easy to follow and need very little clarification little realizing they are more fleshed out in his head then on paper. assuming reader's ignorance is so pasé. Come now, you don't get it? Are you saying you can't read his mind? Sorry, he will not be spelling it out any time soon. You think this is hard to follow, don't read his Batman RIP thing. Uggh. That said, Final Crisis so far is still a pretty interesting read and I am curious to know what will happen next.
I also find it interesting that Batman is getting
by Rufferto
Jul 3rd, 2008
02:27:13 AM
neaten senseless in the bat cave in one book and kidnapped in another. He sure gets around.
Yeah, BATMAN R.I.P. Is Almost Incomprehensible
by LaserPants
Jul 3rd, 2008
06:01:14 AM
Granted, I'm only reading Batman, not Nightwing (gay) or Robin (super gay), so maybe thats why the narrative jumps all over the place seems to make no sense whatsoever.

DETECTIVE COMICS is where all the cool Batman stuff goes on imho. I dunno, maybe Morrison really isn't as good as we all think he is, or maybe he's slipping?
The greater danger? Glad you asked.
by Laserhead
Jul 3rd, 2008
07:25:06 AM
I think there's a huge greater danger behind the trend toward PC speech, a layered one, actually. The first layer is that in a general way, words are endowed by law with powers they simply don't have, and consequently, reactions and feelings which are personal choices are viewed the same as reactions and feelings which are NOT personal choices. That is, having your feelings hurt by something someone says is the legal equivalent of being physically assaulted. This is bad in a practical way because it encourages society to become more litigious and people to relinquish and deny their culpability in the realm of their 'feelings.' Its dangerous in more subtle ways because it moves us further and further from a society of personal responsibility and more toward a society where the very subtleties and choices that make us human are legislated, separating people from the final and most basic sovereignity we all possess: our individual thoughts and feelings. It's bad because it increases the pampering of an already fatally over-pampered generation. It's bad because people lose jobs for using the wrong impersonal pronoun (I've seen that one happen). It's bad because it creates a situation where YOUR feelings are the responsibility of everyone else and the language they use. It's bad because it negates expression and individuality in favor of some faux-utopian ideal which is never defined and could not exist in a pluralist society. It's bad because it tries to disguise control as enlightenment.
jmyoung
by Laserhead
Jul 3rd, 2008
07:29:05 AM
I think you'd need to define privacy a little better in order for the camera argument to be made. "An area where you have no reasonable expectation of privacy" kind of demands it. Can't anonymity be a form of privacy? In the sense that you are in the world, but unnoticed? The way you make it sound, simply stepping outside your house entitles a camera to film you, and the only place we can reasonably expect a modicum of privacy is behind our own closed doors. If you don't want to be filmed, don't step outside your house. That's not right.
stdloves
by sugarbess
Jul 3rd, 2008
07:43:56 AM
What a shame. I remember that we had a nice conversation on 【 wealthybeauty.com】 last year. It is really a huge shock when I heard about this.
What awaits on the other side?I need more fun
by sugarbess
Jul 3rd, 2008
07:45:40 AM
your fans all over the world will miss you. Rest in peace! I just find you on the celeb and millionaire dating site 【 wealthybeauty.com】 and wanna have a chat with you there. What a shame.
How I think Morrison has changed
by Laserhead
Jul 3rd, 2008
07:54:48 AM
He was always a writer with great, novel concepts, and at his best those concepts existed in the service of character, to excavate the inner life of a character and illuminate their essence as a person (think of Animal Man, or Cliff Steele's journey in Doom Patrol), and because his approach was still character-centered, Morrison could shape those concepts into dramatically effective narratives. Gradually, moving from JLA to The Invisibles to The Filth to New X-Men, it seems as though Morrison's work has started to lean more on concept, less on character, and as a result, the reader still gets these great, novel concepts thrown at them, but now those concepts aren't simply a part of the narrative, they're the whole point of the narrative. Thus his new style frequently includes, among other things, a crippling lack of transition between scenes and a lack of concern for clarity. By clarity I mean only 'clear expression.' Ambiguity is fine, but it should sit beneath the events of a narrative; the events themselves should be depicted with clarity, and 21st century Morrison doesn't do that a lot of the time. So while what he's doing may make perfect sense inside his head, and to certain readers, it's much less likely to come together on the page as a dramatic narrative-- instead his scenes just sit there, with little connection to what's gone before or what comes after, and there's a rise in expositional dialogue, where characters basically try to articulate what Grant is thinking, and that's just plain inauthentic and clumsy. Now, it doesn't happen all the time, and sometimes it serves him well. The glory of All-Star Superman is actually dependent on all these storytelling traits which on other books are liabilities. Why it works there deserves its own essay. The man is my all-time favorite comic writer after Alan Moore (who's lost points the last few years). But somewhere along the way, story and character seem to have taken something of a backseat to 'concepts' and Morrison's art, in my opinion, has changed radically because of it. I do think Grant can always get the magic back, though, and even at his most baldly self-indulgent, he offers a reader a lot of great stuff. But the surface effects of tension, suspense and drama are often missing from his new work, and I really miss them. Whew. Alright. Just wanted to get all my posts out of the way before I started my day.
Okay, so I'm the only one in here...
by Laserhead
Jul 3rd, 2008
09:40:47 AM
Me and Sugarbess, the millionaire-dater. Who knows what lies on the other side, Sugarbess? You DO need more fun. Clearly it's time to start dating BILLIONAIRES.

Sugarbess, do you notice like I do that the more one participates in online communication, the more one begins to view it as a source of validation? I can tell you're a sensitive person with deep yearnings, Sugarbess, and I wonder how you parcel out answers you can live with regarding the fundamental and burning questions of, What you think of Grant Morrison lately? What happen in Final Crisis? and Bendis need stop watching Aaron Sorkin so much? By God, I hope those millionaires know what they've got on their hands, Sugarbess. Don't ever let them make you feel small, baby.

Yeah, But PC Speech Isn't Law And Never Will Be
by LaserPants
Jul 3rd, 2008
10:12:58 AM
Basically, its just a social phenomenon, there is no, and never will be, any legal basis for enforcing PC speech; it's just not going to happen. So your fears are paranoid and groundless. Nobody has been sued, ever, for making offensive remarks in terms of race, gender, or creed remarks. Ever. Why? because nothing like that would ever stand up in court; any such case would be laughed out of the courtroom. You know with the whole "free speech" thing we have?

The last time this sputtering fear of a PC Reich came up was when Imus called those Rutgers basketball players "nappy headed hoes." Now there was a public outcry, and he wound up getting fired, true, but it wasn't a Federal Judge that fired him, it was his sponsors who pulled their funding, and then he got fired. He didn't get fired because of a legal precedent, he got fired because of our One True God -- the capitalist free market system (long may it rape our collective ass). When the advertisers, said, "no way", he was fired. If the advertisers were like, "whatever, we don't care", Imus would still be on the air spewing his hatred, wearing his cowboy hat, and pretending he's not 150 years old.

So again, insidious political correctness is little more than irritant, and any paranoia about it is, well, silly. I mean, go ahead and make fun of it, but don't fear it. To do so is rather pointless.
Salt shakers
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 3rd, 2008
10:15:22 AM
Actually, the are being replaced at the taxpayers expense. Here is a link the Sundays rag:
http://tinyurl.com/5al2cg
Gateshead council spent 15 days - at taxpayers expense - researching the "problem" before implementing the solution...all with the hard earned pounds of the locals. But you know, you can never put a price tag on saving people from themselves...
Great Post On Morrison, Btw
by LaserPants
Jul 3rd, 2008
10:18:54 AM
Thats an excellent dissection of where he seems to be at in terms of his writing these days. Honestly, I think he's slipping. The last issue of Batman R.I.P. was nearly incomprehensible. I mean, I got it, but it was not a good, organic read, it was clunky and more then a little vague. But not artfully ambiguous, just confusing, And what the heck was the last page about? So he's like multi-colored Batman now? Huh?
I don't think the fear is groundless, or that LAW is the only da
by Laserhead
Jul 3rd, 2008
10:20:40 AM
I mean, I don't live in fear of it, but I do think these dangers are real, particularly when there are factions that wish for these things to be codified into law. I can't be certain it will NEVER be made law. And even if these PC standards are never put into law, they represent a philosophical ethics which is being adopted into group policies, an ethics that is dangerous, for the reasons I listed above. Like I said, I really did see something like that lose someone their job, and this person was innocent of all intent.
to Laserhead, on Morrison
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 3rd, 2008
10:23:06 AM
I think you've pegged his evolution as a writer, and I'll go one further: I think there's so MUCH he wants to throw at us, but it just doesn't sit well in the media of comic books. There's all this exposition that should be shown, but may get told, or may get dropped all together. I'm wondering if it might not be time for him to write a best-selling novel or three, where he can REALLY stretch his legs and completely control the horizontal and the vertical, so to speak.

I don't mean to imply that he's outgrown the medium of comics, but I think that some of the things he tries to pull off really stretch it to the breaking point. Some, like A-S SUPERMAN, expand inside the medium like a well-filled balloon. Others are so big that they pop it, and that's not necessarily his fault.
Well, I would say more...
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 3rd, 2008
12:14:54 PM
...but I never actually read your other post all the way through. Catch you next week.
Morrison Amodeo
by Laserhead
Jul 3rd, 2008
12:47:34 PM
I agree with you, but I kind of think it is his fault when some of his concepts burst the narrative balloon, to continue the metaphor. Having great concepts isn't the same thing as telling a story, and he knows enough about the art of story, and the form he works in, to know when the narrative is lacking. I'd say there's some things he wants to express that would be better suited to other mediums. Like if he made a documentary in the manner of Errol Morris or something. I think prose novel would probably exacerbate his narrative difficulties now though, because that's a whole other form he'd have to master before beginning to deal with the trends in his general storytelling. (The prose Joker story fell flat largely because the prose writing was so mannered and precious).
Laserhead
by jmyoung666
Jul 3rd, 2008
01:46:25 PM
When you step outside a private home or facility you are placing yourself in aposition where you may be observed. Cameras pointed at your doorways or yard would be bad, but anywhere o the streets or any public place such as a park is fine. I am not a security freak, and I see cameras in public places as not only greater protection for the public, but greater pprotection for the public against bad behavior by the police.

See, for example, a recent California case that made headlines where the cops were exposed as lying on the stand due to a video camera from across the street. They claimed a defendant ran and threw some Coke which they found. The camera completely contradicted their testimony, the charges were dropped, and now those pigs are being investigated.

Morrison again
by rock-me Amodeo
Jul 3rd, 2008
02:24:25 PM
I DID forget the Joker prose. Ick.
I like Morrison and Crisis in general
by Homer Sexual
Jul 3rd, 2008
11:16:35 PM
but Final Crisis really leaves me cold. Seven Soldiers was a favorite, enjoying Batman, have liked much of Morrison. But didn't like him on Justice League and don't like him on Final Crisis. Seems pretty dorky to me. The whole reading the entire internet and bringing back Barry Allen are perfect examples. If that kind of thing is your cup of tea, more power to you. But it is seriously not mine. Maybe it will get better, but this is a big letdown after a lot of good DC stuff that I, at least, enjoyed.
Buzz Maverik Joins The PC Bandwagon
by Buzz Maverik
Jul 3rd, 2008
11:41:47 PM
I am down with the PC movement and here's why:

They're going to need someone to enforce it, right? And is it really gonna be them? No, that wouldn't be PC. That's where Buzz Maverik's PC Goon Squad comes in. I'm already contracting with several major Universities and municipal governments. The regular cops won't do the job because who's less PC than cop? ...Besides a Buzz Maverik PC Goon?

Now, that's why I'm here. Recruiting. Are you sadistic (or empathically challenged as my PC clients would say?). Good with an electronic cattle prod and a garrote (aka a bovine-American cooperation enhancer and a ... garrote)? Would you have made a great Special Forces troop but you couldn't pass the psychological profile (let's be honest, for this job, we need guys who couldn't even pass the psych profile for Black Ops)? Willing to pound on people for sub-minimum wage or just beer? Post your resumes here on this talkback. And remember our motto: PC stands for Pain Control, bay-bee!

JH WILLIAMS III FOR FINAL CRISIS
by messi
Jul 4th, 2008
10:36:22 AM
he should have done the art, he would have done something specia.
Buzz Don't Taze Me Bro!
by ComputerGuy68
Jul 4th, 2008
05:06:43 PM
Had to say it ;)
oh jh...
by blackthought
Jul 5th, 2008
10:21:39 PM
hmm...
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