The good thing there is, we won't have to deal with any of the added filler to pad out an extra season.

Everybody: most of the discussion of the final episode itself we're having in the previous post by Herc, since that has a spoiler tag on it.

Elosha: "And the lords anointed a leader to guide the Caravan of the Heavens to their new homeland." (The Hand of God)

Elosha: She also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land. (The Hand of God)

Roslin: The scriptures tell us a dying leader lead humanity to the promised land. (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I)

NOTE: Earth isn't mentioned. Just a "promised" land. A "new" land.

I believe this is Earth, but I don't believe this is where the 13th Tribe is. The Colonials made a mistake: they followed Kara.

Zeus warned the survivors that any return to Kobol "would exact a price in blood."

I think this prohibition would prevent the majority of colonials supporting a move back to Kobol.

Anyways, itd make sense from a business perspective too since by tying this into the original they can enhance the popularity of both series when this is canceled as itll give fans f this series a reason to watch the original episodes and the fans of the old to watch this (if they aren't alread), while expanding the 'Battlestar Universe' as a whole, and allowing the birth of new related properties without seeming like they're milking a single show or beating a dead horse.

Of course Im drunk right now. So I may think very differently tomorrow afternoon.

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http://img406.imag eshack.us/img406/913/bsgbrookl ynbridgeyx0.jpg

That's crazy talk. You should be airlocked!

The thing is that I don't usually watch first seasons anymore. Firefly burned me. Bad. I don't like to think about it. If I could sue those stupid Fox bastards for pain and suffering...well, that would be retartded. But you see my point.

So I didn't start watching BSG until this season. But this being Coaxial and it being my favorite place to be on AICN since BtVS wildfeeds, I started *reading* the BSG TB's since the beginning. So I know a bit. I even know what happens this mid-season ep because I am a spoiler whore. (That's right; I said it. What are you going to do about it?) Sometimes you guys throw me by mentioning first names and last names but I think I'm following along okay. And like I said, I will be getting all the seasons when they become available in a nice looking package that hopefully resembles a Viper.

No one still answered my question if I NEED to see the prequels though. I'm skittish because...did I NEED to see the Star Wars prequels??

That would be, "No".

However, I did dress up as Darth Maul for Halloween. Once.

By the way, just because they THINK it's Earth...who says it IS Earth?

Oh and best moment is Tigh offering himself up to be airlocked for the good of the fleet.

In the clip we saw after Starbuck came back, they flashed to Earth with a very clear Florida peninsula.

We may be being fooled with again.

I mean she was on the hanger deck, so who's to say how close she was? No matter. Tigh giving himself up and the plan to use himself as bait, knowing he could go floof, was fucking brilliant.

I apologize if I have that wrong as my only exposure to NY is all the films and shows set there. Oh, and the Marvel universe.

:) Easily the best since Exodus Pt. II. Maybe even better. I guess it's a moot point now since it's trashed but why, under any circumstances, would they lead the Cylons to Earth? Kind of blows the whole last refuge thing out of the water. And they took time off to reinstate Roslin, just before the jump? That's convenient to prophecy, but contrived.

I love that Tigh is cool again. He was always my favorite character and I haven't been digging him this season. This ep was great from beginning to end. I'm glad I was patient through this craptastic season. The Earth resolution was fine by me, but I can't see what could be coming at this point.

Just a rePurvey of the Hybrid Theory According to Chromedome.

I suspect we'll find out next YEAR (FUCK YOU VERY MUCH SCI-FI) that it is earth, they have to rebuild it, and they are all cylons.

Those Vipers Won't Fix Themselves!

Elosha: She also wrote that the new leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land. (The Hand of God)

WELL DONE, chrth: this CAN be EARTH, and Roslin CAN be alive, because EARTH is NOT their New Homeland.

Although, I am rewatching Buffy/Angel - as is my want - and in "Origins" in Season five of Angel there is this big discussion with Wesley about "memories" in connection with Ilryria and I couldn't help thinking: That was the nugget of Dollhouse....

"We endure."

For a bunch of nerds; you guys suck....

The Hybrid warned against following Kara Thrace, but the Colonials did it anyway. Now they're in the wrong place. They need to find the Final Fifth, who, with the Final Four, will show the way to the home of the 13th Tribe ... all while fighting off the Cavil-led Cylons.

Disclaimer:

This is just something I came up with. It's not written in stone (notepad, actually). The purpose in posting it is to test it. If you find a flaw, GREAT. If you have a different interpretation, that's also great ... we can discuss it and see what we come up with. I may embrace your position, I may not, don't take it personally. The goal is discussion, not conclusion. This is a start point, not an end point.

The Nebula:

The Nebula is KEY. This is where things went wrong. Up until that point, the Colonials were following the correct path. The activation of the Final Five was the next step in the correct path. However, something else happened: Starbuck came back from the dead (confirmed in a podcast that she was dead). Multiple Hybrids warned against following her. The Colonials did anyway. Why? Because whoever brought Starbuck back returned her at the exact moment to pre-empt the next step. Since In-Head Leoben led her to her death, I'm going to guess that he was an agent of that power (we'll talk about them all later). So upon Starbuck's return, the wrong path was taken.

Now, there are some questions here (and possible flaws). Starbuck's path took them to the Hybrid and the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. The hybrid didn't want them following Starbuck, but she did seem to want to destroy the Hub. So it gets kind of confusing. Was the purpose just to follow Starbuck some of the way? Would the Hub destruction happened anyway if they followed the Final Five? Hard to say.

The McGuffin:

BTW, I think there's a giant McGuffin that is everywhere in the BSG universe and I think we've been tricked with it. I refer, of course, to "This has all happened before and that will all happen again". Many of us are trying to fit events into some sort of cycle. This has resulted in some far out looping (Cylons invented on Earth thousands of years ago, etc). I think we've taken it too far. For all we know, the cycle in question is tens of thousands of years old. So I am not going to try to fit the events into a cycle. There's an almost infinite number of ways to do it, and I don't think it gets us any closer to the 'truth' of the remaining episodes.

Earth:

Ah, good old Earth. And yes, I do believe they're on Earth. I believe that Earth was the previous home for those that ended up on Kobol, but it really becomes an academic question. Was Earth destroyed before the 13th Tribe set out for it 4000 years ago? Possibly; would make sense why everyone was on Kobol and ONLY Kobol (in a Universe with no aliens, why, 4000 years ago, was all of humanity on one planet? Could it be because they had been on another planet earlier that they destroyed, and their new leaders, the Lords of Kobol, kept a tight rein on them for unknown reasons?) Or was Earth destroyed after the 13th Tribe arrived, either in a battle with other (original) inhabitants or some sort of pseudo-Cylon event like what happened to the colonies (here's a place for our McGuffin)?

Ultimately, IT DOESN'T MATTER. See, a lot of people forget (because of New Caprica and the opening credits) that the real goal wasn't Earth; it was to reunite with the 13th Tribe. Reunited (and it feels so good), they would be able to fight off the Cylons. Despite all the truces and toaster-frakking going on, there's something still out there, because ...

Here Comes the Cavil-ry:

There are now a lot more bad Cylons than good Cylons. There's only D'Anna. A handful of Leobens. Some Sixes and Eights.

But there are potentially hundreds of thousands of all the other models. Not to mention Raiders, Centurions, and whatnot. Granted, those may no longer attack due to the revealed presence of the Final Five, but there are a lot more bad basestars than good ones. And there's still the Cylon homeworld, where resurrection still happens (unless RDM retcons this out) and they could build a new resurrection hub if they felt like it, one that the 'good' Cylons could no longer use.

The Thirteenth Tribe:

So that's what it comes down to -- finding the Thirteenth Tribe. There has to be some survivors somewhere. Back to our McGuffin: if the Colonials survived the Cylon attack, than I'm sure the 13th Tribe survived whatever happened on Earth (or if Earth was already like that). And I'm sure they got into some ships and went looking for a place called ... you got me. But I'm guessing the 13th Tribe is there. And I'm guessing they got there before the colonists left Kobol.

The Final Five:

This is where the Final Five's path comes into play. The Final Five's path leads to the 13th Tribe. Since the path they have followed has been laid out thousands of years ago, it seems that the 13th Tribe returned some of its members to Kobol at some point to create a new path, one that didn't lead to Earth (or led to an Earth 2 or New Earth or something). Now since we don't know the Final Fifth (who could be dead, or one of the colonies/New Caprica, or could've been on the Basestar already, or D'Anna could've been lying, whatever the explanation for the location is), I believe that the plot directions points to the joined Five being able to find the correct path. So the Fifth needs to be found (and I'm sure they'll figure this out pretty quick).

Roslin's Upcoming Death:

She's still the dying leader (remember, it's a wasting disease. Those championing Natalie for this role forget this fact). But the scripture never says Earth. Just the 'promised' or 'new' land. Since the 13th Tribe is what set down the markers, it makes sense that she doesn't die until they're close to their home.

The In-Heads and the Lords of Kobol:

Here's one of the big questions. What is the purpose of the In-Heads? I'm guessing they're avatars of the Lords of Kobol, but it's just a guess. The Cylon God is likely a former Lord of Kobol who was exiled for wanting to be the top dog, and the Cylons found him and he converted them to belief in him. The In-Head Six and Baltar are his doing. Is the Cylon God responsible for them following Kara the wrong way? It's the easiest solution to the problem (since it utilizes an established entity), but the Why is tricky. Maybe he doesn't want the 13th Tribe reunited with the Colonials because the other Lords of Kobol reside with the former? But it's also possible that one of the other Lords of Kobol (Aurora is a very likely suspect here because of her connection the Kara Thrace) doesn't want them reunited because they do not want the agents of the Cylon God amongest the 13th Tribe.

Where Do We Go From Here?

Well, I think the path is simple: find the Final Fifth. Follow the path to the 13th Tribe. Unite with them to stop the (bad) Cylons. Live happily ever after ... until it happens again. This doesn't mean there aren't loose threads (and some of them are already answered above, but we'll include them all) that need answering, but I think this is the core of the final episodes. Some of these are academic (as noted, does it really matter what happened on Earth? All that matters is that it happened).

The Open Threads:

1) The remaining 'bad' Cylons (as well as the Cylon homeworld)

2) What happened to Earth?

3) What happened to the 13th tribe?

4) What happened to the Lords of Kobol?

5) Who or What are the In-Head Baltar, Six, and Leoben?

6) What destruction is Kara Thrace leading everyone to?

7) Why isn't Roslin dead (yet)? Will she die?

8) The Final Fifth

9) How have the Final Five "been to Earth"?

10) Who is the 'jealous god'? Is it the Cylon god? Lord of Kobol?

11) What's the deal with Hera? What's the secret of the Opera House?

12) What's the deal with Tigh-Caprica Six's child?

Miscellany:

I don't think they'll settle on Kobol or Earth. The former seems like going backwards to me, and the latter seems like a replay of New Caprica.

Predicted Dialogue for the next episode:

"Something went wrong. Are they all lost?"

"We survived. They must have as well."

"Where did they go?"

"They led us here. They'll lead us there."

Also: "Frak"

The splendor of Kara's Earth opposed to the Earth they're on now: Roslin and Kira see a green bank. Natalie sees verdant trees. These are the glimpses of death/afterlife we've been shown on the show.

Now consider what the podcast told us when she returned: Kara DIED. And was returned. What if the splendor she saw was the one Roslin and Natalie glimpsed, not Earth?

I think that's enough for now. If you made it to the end and read everything, good for you.

I guess the show, even when it was great, was THIS close to being shitty and it has crossed the threshold with flying colors. It's depressing in a way. I always procrastinate watching it. Hell I might stop watching it if it wasn't so close to the end. But they keep moving the fucking goalposts. Maybe I'll stop anyway.

Anyway no offense to those who are still digging it but I can't be the only one that feels this way.

But let's say the Cylon God was in contact with the Hybrid, and thus was warning against Kara. Why would the Cylon God allow the Resurrection Hub to be destroyed (it was the Hybrid who was leading them to it)? That's going to take awhile to replace. If the goal was isolation of Leoben/Six/Eight, then just recall the entire fleet to the homeworld.

Because the hybrid worked to destroy the resurrection hub, I think she's in tune to something else besides the Cylon God.

Then they changed tack with the Final Five idea. Apparently the Final Five don't have numbers according to what Ron Moore just said. Since we have model numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6 - and 8 - well this does hint at a change of direction during the life of the show.

It's the far-off future, and we've blown ourselves up. Maybe we did it to kill off all the replicants?

And to those who knock the show for shifting streams and making it up as they go along ... oooookay, but is it done well? I personally think they've done a great job of maintaining a consistent tone and a coherent story, even as the show develops and the internal mythology deepens.

Are some story elements tossed aside without any follow up? Sure. Red glowing spines? That one sticks out in my mind and I'm sure others here can come up with a long list. I'm enjoying what's going on enough that I just don't care.

Having said that, I do NOT think it's fudging (or retconning) at all to say that the Cylons HAD a plan ... which was abandoned or at least modified with time, first because they tried to "live with" the humans on New Caprica (which was a decision made under the influence of those Cylons who had lived amongst humans and saw a possibility for a different way) ... but the problem with New Caprica is that the Cylons tried to enforce harmony through force. This "plan" to ascend to and transcend humanity keeps changing because the Cylons are learning that it requires coming to terms and cooperating with their makers, not destroying, deceiving, or dominating them.

Yes, the final five thing definitely feels tacked on and RDM even said he only came up with those four during the middle of season 3. But I would dispute the notion that the Cylons were trying to destroy them early on. I always felt like they were being driven to find Earth by the Cylons. They always seemed to know where the fleet was and even Cain made mention that the Cylons were tracking Galactica.

Granted this show has shifted directions a few times now, so who's to say? I think the cheesisness of the four surviving until now is tied in with the whole cheesy, divine inspiration/prophecy element this show has embraced. Once they went down that road, anything is possible. I'm still hoping they explain all these visions and mystical events away with a scientific explanation. Even on DS9, the prophets were advanced aliens, so I guess there's hope.

A MacGuffin (sometimes McGuffin) is a plot device that motivates the characters or advances the story, but the details of which are of little or no importance otherwise.

the mention of the miniseries reminded me of the moment Caprica Six broke that little baby's neck as an experiment - do you think she might need some lessons on motherhood, now that she's preggers??

What are the Centurions not telling? They've stopped co-operating with the "bad" Cylons, right? Or did they lobotomise their Centurions? Surely they would hold the balance of Cylon power - maybe Baltar new this and that's why he wanted a few moments of that Centurion's time to talk about Jesus.

Very OS indeed - is the Fifth going to be Imperious Leader?

It draws directly from a two part episode that featured Ray Bolger as a robot named Hector. They learned the planet was called Terra and hoped it was Earth, which it of course wasn't. They even found deserted cities whose populations had been "destroyed" in a war; although in that series the cities themselves were left standing. The whole thing wrapped up with Edward Mulhare's "Ship of Lights" character telling Apollo that they had not in fact found Earth yet. Their search for Earth continued; as it will for this series, after however many interminable, infernal months Sci-Fi waits to start airing the show again.