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awesome!
by BadMrWonka
May 14th, 2008
06:14:53 PM
no political mess in this talkback..right?
# 1 Question
by WickedJester
May 14th, 2008
06:18:37 PM
How are you going to fill two movies without seeming like it was just done for cash?
Frodo Lives!
by LeSange
May 14th, 2008
06:20:46 PM
Two of the best directors in the business
by Teddy Artery
May 14th, 2008
06:21:16 PM
Jackson and Del Toro and pros and fans rolled into one.
Hobbit could easily be two movies
by Marvel1967
May 14th, 2008
06:21:33 PM
.
Darn it...
by Teddy Artery
May 14th, 2008
06:22:15 PM
I meant, "...Toro ARE pros..."
God loves you*
by Conqueror Worm
May 14th, 2008
06:22:51 PM
This makes it feel so real now, especially as I remember the first round all those years ago, and now - knowing what we know and how well it turned out - surely we can all get uber excited about the future....for sure!
Hobbit
by BrightEyes
May 14th, 2008
06:27:01 PM
!!!
I can't attend...
by EARTH
May 14th, 2008
06:27:39 PM
...BECAUSE I HAVE A LIFE! Now I must get back to my Miller Lite tall boy and watch American Idol. Wait, scratch the last part.
Harry you are like some kind of god
by Silverglade
May 14th, 2008
06:28:18 PM
ty so much for the info on this. what an event. I hope you have a follow-on article with some summaries.. .AND your opinion on the details revealed.
Question 2: What the fuck do you eat to get that fat?
by Mysterious Yobo
May 14th, 2008
06:28:44 PM
are hobbit cinimas filled with..
by g-ride9000
May 14th, 2008
06:35:52 PM
round screens?
I'm glad to hear it.
by Herb West
May 14th, 2008
06:36:26 PM
Maybe this will put AICN back on the right track.
When is the live chat concerning Magnolia??
by BetaRayBill07
May 14th, 2008
06:37:42 PM
You knew it was coming.
Who will play Bilbo?
by blackmantis
May 14th, 2008
06:37:55 PM
And may I suggest Martin Freeman?
gotham knight
by Flea Circus
May 14th, 2008
06:38:38 PM
what track record are you looking at? Blade 2 was a huge hit, Hellyboy made money, maybe not spiderman money but it made money and pan's was a huge hit for a foreign language movie, plus oscar buzz. "how does he get to make the hobbit?" who else would been a more bankable director given the subject matter? other than say peter jackson?
unexpected dreaded red Xs
by Orionsangels
May 14th, 2008
06:41:25 PM
Flea Circus
by Herb West
May 14th, 2008
06:41:38 PM
Arguing with little Gotham? You must be new here.
Question #2 ANSWERED
by g-ride9000
May 14th, 2008
06:42:07 PM
What do you eat to get that fat, boys?

ANSWER from Peter: Sheep's blood stuffed sheep loin.

ANSWER from Guillermo: Chips with sour cream and lots of Al Pastor.

ANSWER from Harry: A Brisket a day keeps the doctor away!

Love the TBs
by WickedJester
May 14th, 2008
06:43:30 PM
I remember reading everyone bitching about how it's a stretch to fill 2 movies, etc. -- Within the first few posts of this one someone says it can be done easily. Now I remember why I signed up for a new account.
Question: why did Guillermo say he hates this stuff?
by drturing
May 14th, 2008
06:43:33 PM
“I was never into heroic fantasy. At all,” del Toro admitted during a 2006 Cannes interview. “I don’t like little guys and dragons, hairy feet, hobbits — I’ve never been into that at all. I don’t like sword and sorcery. I hate all that stuff.” the reporter who recorded it brought it back up. i don't want guillermo wasting four years on hobbits when he could and should be making his original scripts. oh, and i still think Lord of the Rings is racist!
WILL YOU JUST USE STICKAM!
by spidermanfreak20
May 14th, 2008
06:45:08 PM
Seriously! Make a stickam for this or use blogtv.com A live webcam. Talk to Tomgreen.com but please dont just make it text chatting.
WetaNz.com will crash on May 24
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
06:45:43 PM
as all the Tolkienites attempt to join the party.
Who acts as Beorn? Who are the dwarves?
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
06:47:25 PM
Names, names!
Links to original 20 questions.. anyone?
by Koola_Norway
May 14th, 2008
06:47:55 PM
Has anyone got links pointing to the original 20 first questions that PJ was asked here on AICN back in the day?
Will this movie suck just like all the LOTR movies?
by strosmer
May 14th, 2008
06:48:03 PM
Muwahahahahaha
Here's a crazy idea...Make the G**damned 'Hobbit'...
by CaptEgo
May 14th, 2008
06:48:08 PM
Not some bullshit fanboy piece of 'fanfic' shite. There's the book...trim what you have to and tell us a charming kids story. You feel the need to wallet rape all these hopeless twerps out there who really gotta see some kind of fleshed out 'White Council' BS and lameass Gothy 'Necromancer' go ahead and make that second movie and I'll cheerfully not go to it but don't fuck with the Hobbit because of exploded egos. Blather all you want but remember the Hobbit is about Elves and Dwarves and Goblins who break into song at the drop of a hat. In the Hobbit Rivendell is frikkin 'Fa la la lally down in the valley' not some nature retreat for a bunch of stuffed shirts. It's got talking spiders and animals and dumbass Trolls and a manipulative sarcastic Gandalf and Elves who get wasted at inopportune times. Oh yah...and about thirty seconds of a big ass battle. If you nimrods end up even thinking about cranking out 'The Battle of the Five Pelennors' someone should kick you in the ass. So that's it...make 'The Hobbit' and if you feel the need to pander to that wanking crowd then go ahead and make "The Lord of the Rings; Episode Zero, "The Wankening" after you've made a real Hobbit movie. Toodles!
most important question that needs to be asked
by Jett
May 14th, 2008
06:48:36 PM
Mr Jackson, my Del Toro...how come the kids don't know how to dance to rock and roll?
Who voices Smaug?
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
06:49:05 PM
Jeremy Irons?
Can any other than McAvoy be Bilbo?
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
06:50:25 PM
surely not Martin Freeman?
This is AWESOME!!!
by THE TRUE PINBACK
May 14th, 2008
06:50:31 PM
I can't wait to see this project unfold before our eyes. And not to change the subject, but I just read that the first teaser for THE MUMMY; TOMB OF THE DRAGON EMPEROR will be up on Friday.
Gotham
by Flea Circus
May 14th, 2008
06:52:16 PM
oh. now i feel silly.
Will you not stoop to throwing dwarves this time?
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
06:53:20 PM
And adding unexpectet and uncalled for changes to the story? I bet Del Toro wont let you.
What events will the second movie cover?
by performingmonkey
May 14th, 2008
06:55:30 PM
and will it be called, 'The Hobbit 2 - Electric Bilboogaloo'? To clarify, they've already said the first movie will be called The Hobbit and will basically be The Hobbit adapted fully, i.e. the story doesn't stretch across two movies. My guess is the second movie is Gandalf-centric, maybe with a young Aragorn. Christopher Lee needs to be in it too, Saruman is head of the White Council who feature heavily in this period of Middle-earth history. By the time of LOTR the Council doesn't count for much because Saruman has become corrupt (though they don't realise how much until Saruman traps Gandalf and reveals he's working with Sauron in FOTR). Gandalf is trapped in Sauron's dungeons under Dol Guldur, that may feature in the second movie, this is when they discover Sauron has returned, but they drive him out and back to Mordor.
will we get to see Tom Bombadil in the sequel?
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
06:55:46 PM
come on, you owe us
All I want to know is....
by Herb West
May 14th, 2008
06:59:53 PM
when do we get the 6th edition of The Hobbit's extended, extended, unrated director's cut on DVD.

by giger167
May 14th, 2008
07:00:05 PM
McAvoy is a good call pipergates, would fit well in the role. Simon Pegg maybe as well, he's quite short lol, might fit better in a more whimsical way if they go for a slightly lighter touch which I imagine they will on the first Hobbit movie. Will be interested to see where they go with the second movie as well, presumably something darker planned there. Very excited by both movies anyway, the original trilogy has held up very well for me :) Hopefully we will get some more solid info in the 20 questions :)
Thorin Oakenshield...
by THE TRUE PINBACK
May 14th, 2008
07:01:45 PM
Here's a casting idea for Peter and Guillermo-Brian Blessed as THorin Oakenshield. This guy would be spot-on perfect as the dwarven leader.
Maybe they should let us make the movie.
by Underoos Hero
May 14th, 2008
07:04:39 PM
You know, let us geeks make the Hobbit films. We're so smart. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be that good.
QUESTION 19 : Will The Hobbit 2 be as good as Kingdom of Heaven
by Conqueror Worm
May 14th, 2008
07:09:04 PM
Best Directors Cut since Fellowship Of The Ring EE.

No doubt.
will
by Silverglade
May 14th, 2008
07:12:42 PM
Will Samuel L. Jackson appear after the credits? ok, seriously, how many films has Sam been in to this point. I would guess it is more than any actor in history.
Love Del Toro
by fiester
May 14th, 2008
07:15:04 PM
I'm pleased he does stuff like this and Hellboy, but I hope he never stops making his own weird and wonderful little Spanish language films. Reading subtitles has never felt so good.
The hobbit will rock, but..
by Double M
May 14th, 2008
07:19:21 PM
I fear for the second movie that they are planning here. Up to that point, there is the books to fall back on. What the hell is the second one going to be about? I heard about doing it in the same time frame as hobbit, but exploring the background events that you dont see iin hobbit. Sorry but that kinda sounds like a snooze fest to me.
Silverglade
by Herb West
May 14th, 2008
07:21:17 PM
Shhhhhhh. Don't give them that idea.
Question #16: Who is the final Cylon?
by RyanMurray
May 14th, 2008
07:21:52 PM
:D
RyanMurray...
by Stevie Grant
May 14th, 2008
07:24:07 PM
that post was for the fucking win
Ah... the "companion movie"...
by Laserbrain
May 14th, 2008
07:24:45 PM
I think it's great that Jackson did such a fine, heartfelt job of the Rings trilogy but, damn, if this "companion movie" euphemism doesn't stick in my craw. I'm certainly a little sad to see PJ helping to turn Tolkien into a bona fide franchise with all the potential ugliness that that implies. How many more "companion movies" will be rationalized in the wake of the first's success? Sad.
Jackson, please get delToro skinny too
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
07:28:09 PM
get him on your skinny diet, so he don't have a heart attack and keeps on making films. unless he becomes skinny, miserable and uncreative.
is weta advanced enough
by celebritydave
May 14th, 2008
07:28:36 PM
to make decent action scenes now? how bout some daylight action??? do you feel good knowing that as a new zealander, im gonna have to hear about this movie every goddam day for the next 5 years???
Hobbit movies
by cyberskunk
May 14th, 2008
07:33:22 PM
I have read that the idea of a second movie bridging the Hobbit and Fellowship was a miscommunication and that the Hobbit will take up both movies.

Darn it, thehobbitblog.com is saying that the 2nd movie will bridge the Hobbit with Fellowship. That news is dated from April 24th. I can swear the other article had a correction saying the two movies would focus only on the Hobbit book. The truth will out eventually, whatever is the case.

Andy Serkis Vs. Doug Jones
by Phategod2
May 14th, 2008
07:33:59 PM
Who will win this CGI Mocap battle
Twelve Hobbit Models, seven are known, four leave on a quest
by RyanMurray
May 14th, 2008
07:39:12 PM
...THE ONE RING WILL BE REVEALED
GDT says, from theonering.net:
by cyberskunk
May 14th, 2008
07:43:51 PM
"GDT: You know, I traveled to New Zealand just a little while ago, and one of the main reasons for going was to sit down and talk about the second film. ‘The Hobbit’, the book, is really one self-contained film, so for the second movie we sat down and worked it out. When we did this we got really excited because this second film is not a ‘tag on’, it’s not ‘filler’, it’s an integral part of telling the story of those 50 years of history lost in the narrative. There will be certain things that we will see from the first movie but from a different point of view, but it will feel like a volume, in the 5 volumes of the entire story. It will not feel like a bridge, I’ve been hearing it called ‘a bridge film’, it’s not, it’s an integral chapter of the story, and I think we’re all on the same page."

So the only way I can reconcile this with the correction is if studio people changed their minds. Or if the correction was itself a mistake. I don't know.

Just because you CAN fill two movies doesn't mean you should.
by Flim Springfield
May 14th, 2008
07:52:01 PM
One story = one movie. Anything more is money-grabbing filler.
RyanMurray....
by WickedChicken37
May 14th, 2008
07:52:36 PM
God Damn that was funny.
Where can I apply to be in these movies?
by Annie The Pod Racer
May 14th, 2008
07:56:36 PM
That will be my question. Meesa need a jobby job!
1:85 or 2:35? that's the only question that matters
by lavatory love machine
May 14th, 2008
07:59:32 PM
Del Toro shots his movie on 1:85, but LOTR is 2:35
I'm already bored.
by TooWhippy
May 14th, 2008
08:02:10 PM
Del Toro claimed Tolkien wrote enough for sequel
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
08:07:31 PM
Which i bet is true, but did he write any dialogue or story of those historical happenings? I'm guessing he only mentioned a chain of events, which would have to be filled out by some non-Tolkien entity. And that is shaky ground, who can pretend to write the holy hobbit words without being a hobbit? It is not enough to look like one, DelToro and Jackson!
id split it into 3 movies and
by celebritydave
May 14th, 2008
08:07:45 PM
rape you fanboys!!!ya know each movie is gonna do 800mil.. fuck it go for 3!!!
Question #1: Do you plan to fuck up the Hobbit
by chrth
May 14th, 2008
08:15:02 PM
as bad as you did Return of the King?

Question #2: What parts of the Hobbit do you plan on changing because you think you're somehow better than Tolkien?

I love LOTR and old school PJ movies, BUT
by mattforce7
May 14th, 2008
08:15:44 PM
if either of these movies has a lame fucking stampede like KING KONG >:[, ill cry. It worked in ROTK w/ 2 Oliphants and that's it. on a good note, Im intrigued on what they could bring to the table for the second movie
PJ's got you guys by the balls
by dauphin534
May 14th, 2008
08:44:16 PM
All he's gotta do is show up with some fancy letterhead and kiss your ass, and he gets a free pass and instant support. Lucas should have been doing this years ago, but he hates you guys too much and considers it beneath him.
chrth, what a ridiculous straw man argument.
by raw_bean
May 14th, 2008
08:44:29 PM
If you seriously, SERIOUSLY, don't think Peter Jackson is a better *film-maker* than Tolkien, then you have a point, otherwise you're just impotently spitting bile.
I like how this invitation was written by Peter Jackson
by ingloriousjedi
May 14th, 2008
08:45:11 PM
not Del Toro. That there tells me these films are gonna be classics.
Hmm only 2 lines of text
by pax256
May 14th, 2008
08:47:17 PM
Can be sent at a time so my question spawned 2 entries... Its "will there be filming in other locations than NZ even if only minor vista shoots (Canada has great vistas and Im sure some settings in England could serve as some minor shoots as well out of respect for the environment that so inspired Tolkein)... Oh and theres Mordor 2 in northern Alberta that could save a ton on CGI FX. :P.. sorry just had to throw that in there...
I have a genuine question.
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
08:48:04 PM
Since there is not one female character in the Hobbit, will you be changing or adding any female characters to the movie. My guess is that you will make the elven king, Legolas' father to be an elven queen.
Question # 2
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
08:50:07 PM
Do you now wish that you did not destroy the original sets of Hobbiton and Rivendell?
Question #3
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
08:53:34 PM
Will the overall tone be lighter than the LOTR? Closer to the original Hobbit? (But perhaps not childish?)
Question #4
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
08:58:54 PM
Though the ring is the obvious link between the Hobbit and LOTR do you think it would take away from the adventure/movie and Bilbo's coming of age ( a central theme) to linger for long on the Ring or constantly remind the viewer that it is the THE RING OF POWER? I mean in the Hobbit the ring is more of a device for moving the story rather than any real focus.
This should be fun
by CherryValance
May 14th, 2008
09:05:33 PM
But I don't think I'll ask any questions. I'll just watch.

McAvoy as Bilbo sounds good to me.
Thanks again PJ...
by morGoth
May 14th, 2008
09:08:08 PM
...this only shows the man will be giving us yet another class act.

Question: One of the things in the book that imparts a childlike tone is the use of a narrator. Do you expect to keep him or no? If you do, will he be voiced by Sir Ian McKellen?

Statement: Don't listen to these nabobs of nagativity about the second movie, go right ahead with it...great idea and I've always wanted to see that period fleshed out. I wants me some Necromancer!

Statement Number Two: James McAvoy as Bilbo!

Yes, that's correct...
by morGoth
May 14th, 2008
09:10:49 PM
...he said NAGativity. Lumme but when did I get so klever?

Oh yeah, rock on PJGDT!

Just promise us one thing...
by CellarDweller
May 14th, 2008
09:11:00 PM
Mr. Del Toro, PLEASE don't let Peter convince you to include a creepy Hobbit orgy in this film. Seriously, that was one of the MANY endings to ROTK we could have done without. Apparently the editor was asleep at the wheel...
Shout out to morGoth!
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
09:12:42 PM
Hello morGoth. Hope all is well with you and everyone at club Angband. Former tailender--Bjarki56
Ingeld's first question...
by morGoth
May 14th, 2008
09:14:13 PM
...I'm thinking Beorn will have a wife named Goldberry.
Beorn's Wife
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
09:19:15 PM
Perhaps, morGoth, but don't you think they will want to have a female character that has something to do that is more central to the plot. I am still thinking that they will change the elven king. Hell, I can even picture them turning him into Galadrial-(they will explain it by saying for a time she spent living with some of the northern kindred.) She will at first be apprehensive about the dwarves and thus lock them up, but something will tell her not to hinder their escape though she could have.
As I live an' breath!
by morGoth
May 14th, 2008
09:24:07 PM
Ingeld indeed! Well met mellon and don't you have some good questions! Number two is painfully funny...though probably not to PJ. Iffen I'd known that was you, I'd have said Bjarki's wife will be Goldberry since I know the connexion now. I just don't know where any women folk would appear except for Laketown and I s'pose the Elf King's cavern. Heh, maybe PJ wil introduce us to some hairy Dwarf women! I'm just kidding PJ...you'd better not!

The Club is doing splendid though a few technical sangs have popped up. Please drop by and have a pint and a chat.

What this movie needs...
by Sawney Bean
May 14th, 2008
09:28:03 PM
is some good old fashioned dwarf tossing.
Whoosh...Galadriel?
by morGoth
May 14th, 2008
09:30:09 PM
I dunno, that's a bit of a stretch for me. How would they later incorporate her character into the White Council since she would have to represent Lothlorien, yes? At any rate, yes, it should be more than just a background character ( Hmmm, any clue as to whether Thranduil was ever a member of the Council?). Then again, we may have to wait until the second movie when Aragorn is dating Liv, erm, I mean Arwen.
Advocating for Ian Holm as Bilbo
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 14th, 2008
09:44:29 PM
Ok, sure--the man is 76 years old.

HOWEVER, his performance as Bilbo was (to me) the most perfect casting in the FOTR film, and Holm really doesn't look much older now than he did when the original films were made. Moreover, Jackson & Co established beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bilbo had not aged "a day" due to the influence of the Ring (not to mention showing old Holm in a wig beneath the Misty Mountains in flashback). There's no reason why Holm couldn't be THE HOBBIT's Bilbo again. And with the incredibly makeup artists and digital technology the producers have at their disposal, why NOT Holm? In my mind (and now forever more when I read the books) Holm simply IS Bilbo.
re: morGoth
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
09:46:36 PM
Good point about the council and Galadrial presence being needed. I also wonder if the orcs will be refered to as orcs or as goblins? And it will be odd to see the Trolls speaking as they barely seemed to be above animals in LOTR movies. One of the few things I did not like about PJ's vision was the look of the trolls, wargs and the flying mounts of the Nazgul. I hope the orcs that we see look more like the kind that were in Moria in the movie.
my question
by KurtLockwood
May 14th, 2008
09:47:50 PM
Will Del Toro hit the super slo mo edit feature every five minutes like PJ?
Females in THE HOBBIT? Easy.
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 14th, 2008
09:49:07 PM
Make one or more of the dwarves female. After all, they look just like male dwarves, so this slight, amusing subplot wouldn't really interfere with the original story.

Just being facetious of course. I think the idea that there HAS to be a semi-prominent female character in a blockbuster of this sort is just silly. The movie will make boatloads of money regardless (on the back of the original films). There will be plenty of room for female characters in the second, non-canonical film anyway.
re: Le Vicious Fishus
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
09:52:07 PM
Believe me, I love Ian Holm as Bilbo in the movie. I have always thought he was a great actor. I wish he could be thirty years younger for the part, but he can't. If I remember correctly (and morGoth will probably correct me) Bilbo was around the same age when he left on his adventure that Frodo was when he left on his. I think a younger actor is needed. morGoth mentioned James McAvoy--he was Mr. Tumnus in the Narnia TLWW. Interesting choice. I could see it. Is this a rumor or just casting out ideas for the cast?
Question: How many times will someone utter "Saruman"?
by Behemoth
May 14th, 2008
09:53:06 PM
We need some more scenes like that. Just someone offering an intense look and saying...."SARUMAN." There weren't enough of those in the first trilogy.
Bring on the "Companion Movie"
by Mockingbuddha
May 14th, 2008
09:54:29 PM
As long as they don't mess with The Hobbit, I'll be glad to see some of the lesser known stuff put on film, Hopefully they'll find a good story in there somewhere. I've only read the three rings books and The Hobbit, but I've heard of some cools stuff in the other writings of Tolkein, I also hear its long and boring most of the time, but some cool stuff nonetheless. Don't attack me if I heard wrong, but at some point in Rings history isn't there some battle that involves a whole slew of Balrogs? If they could work that in...
re: Le Vicious Fishus
by Ingeld
May 14th, 2008
09:55:30 PM
I agree that it certainly does not have to have a female character. The closer to the novel, the better for me. I just think the way our culture is today, there will be some kind of pressure to include women into the story. I am just trying to figure out how they will do it.
Question: Will someone cling to a cliff with one finger??
by Behemoth
May 14th, 2008
09:55:51 PM
Because when Frodo was hanging off the cliff with one finger, I thought, "Wow, I've never seen a scenario like this ever before in all off film! Not even Tolkien could've thought this up. Our hero, actually HANGING FROM A CLIFF BY ONE SOLITARY FINGER!" Brilliant touch to add this. I really had no idea that Sam would come along and actually pull him to safety! PLEASE...a scene of Bilbo hanging from a cliff by his finger, for the love of CROM!
so you Tolkien-freaks ok with non-Tolkien script?
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
10:00:35 PM
Considering the out of tone changes begot upon us by Jackson and his ilk, and that from fully functioning storylines with dialog, what will cook up if they only have loose pieces of facts to go from? My only hope there is DelToro. He has shown a much better consistency of tone in his works.
Question: How many times will an Orc get killed just before....
by Behemoth
May 14th, 2008
10:00:58 PM
....he kills one of the good characters? You know, like in the first trilogy, when it happened like...oh, I don't know...about thirty times. Oh, and of course make it so the orc says something really diabolical just before we see the sword/arrow/spear come up through him from behind, because...you know...you don't get to see that in movies very often...I swear, all 50 times that happened in the LOTR trilogy, it got me every time. I was SO SHOCKED that the orc was killed just before killing one of the heroes.
Ingeld
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 14th, 2008
10:04:51 PM
You're right about the female character business. If Jackson has anything to say about it, there WILL be a prominent female character. He doesn't like to break cinematic convention.

As for Holm, Jackson already showed an older Bilbo in flashbakc and reinforced the idea with Gandalf telling him he hadn't aged "a day." It would be inconsistent and absurd to make THE HOBBIT's Bilbo film-Frodo's age.
good point Behemoth, Jackson can be soo cheapo
by pipergates
May 14th, 2008
10:12:53 PM
There's plenty of Hollywood-style crappy moments like that in Lotr. Much as i enjoyed what he created, a complete Middle Earth, damn he can be hacky. But now we have DelToro.
drturing
by DoctorWho?
May 14th, 2008
10:34:27 PM
Anyone who sees "racism" in LOTR must have a bit of racist in themselves. Those are your issues pal. Good luck with 'em. AND HARRY,THAT FUCKING OBNOXIOUS, INTRUSIVE HORROR AD HAS GOT TO GO
And Behemoth...
by DoctorWho?
May 14th, 2008
10:36:25 PM
So true about those cliches.
The Silmarillion as a mini series
by Hikaru Ichijo
May 14th, 2008
10:51:35 PM
That would be decent. Maybe it should be three seasons long.
Wow...sweet
by kafka07
May 14th, 2008
10:57:11 PM
those are the only words I can muster for now.
My 7 questions
by drompter
May 14th, 2008
11:03:32 PM
Q1: Will we hear Enya again during the slo-mo parts? Q2: Will you use animatronics elves again? Q3: For the battle sequences, will you instruct Del Toro in your awesome filming technique, which consists of having actors standing static facing each other, swords in hand, while you shake the camera wildly around then? Q4: Will the bad guys be actually scary in this one? Q5: How many major characters will be presumed dead, only to have them return later to the delight of the "shocked" and "unsuspecting" audience? Q6: How many endings are you planning for the second movie? Q7: Will Smaug be killed in the movie or in the EE?
Question: What's up with "At the Mountains of Madness" ??
by Squashua
May 14th, 2008
11:06:03 PM
Seriously.
Will The Hobbit also have a pointless...
by conspiracy
May 14th, 2008
11:34:27 PM
misguided, overly expanded and trite "Love Story" shoved up its ass whilst dispensing with the more Tolkien-esque literary aspects, such as the songs, back stories, and european folklore; as you did with LOTR?
Regardless of what you think...
by DarthCorleone
May 14th, 2008
11:43:44 PM
...of these guys or their movies, I just gotta say that Peter and Guillermo are supreme class acts for doing this. Who else creates this much of an open dialogue with fans during the creative process?
Why I can't wait for ...
by chrth
May 14th, 2008
11:50:10 PM
is when Bard leaps off a flaming building on to a rope that is slowly burning above him, while dodging the dragon's attack and then pulling the Black Arrow from a sheath and then firing it just as the rope goes ...
raw_bean: Not a straw-man argument
by chrth
May 14th, 2008
11:51:27 PM
How can we trust these people (well, not del Toro, it's not his fault) after they so throughly shat upon Return of the King?
the new
by huggerorange
May 14th, 2008
11:53:02 PM
hulk trailer makes hulk look a lil better..i dont know why they didnt include all that on the first full length trailer debut..either they must be still working on fx or theses are the better shots of cg hulk
Peter Jackson's LOTR films weren't perfect, but...
by goonie
May 14th, 2008
11:53:34 PM
Damn they were awesome. They gave us all something to be excited about for 3 years running. Sure, he made a lot of choices that frstrated us, but the movies were still fantastic presents. I am stoked that we can look forward to two more.
My tolkien geekiness overwhelms me...
by MurderMostFowl
May 14th, 2008
11:58:48 PM
1. Why did you make Frodo get discovered Nazgul while he's in fucking around with Faramir? Wasn't the whole fucking point of Frodo being able to go into Mordor that Sauron had no idea where he was? 2. Why didn't they all just fly straight into Mordor on the Eagles backs? Oh sorry.. that one is for Tolkien to answer 3. And you.. Del Toro... Why did you decide to work so hard at setting up such a great story and characters in Hellboy only to say "eh.. fuck it.. I don't know where this story is going.. lets have him fight a big monster"
fuck there are some cocks around. its quite sad
by slappy jones
May 15th, 2008
12:13:17 AM
what a whiny bunch of nit picky babies a lot of you are. cunts.
Question #5
by Motoko Kusanagi
May 15th, 2008
12:17:21 AM
Anybody seen Richie?

I keep coming back until someone REMEMBERS seeing Richie!

Another vote for Ian Holm
by Skraggo
May 15th, 2008
12:21:18 AM
For me, Holm's scenes were the very best of the trilogy. The Bilbo/Gandalf scenes were perfection. As others have already stated, Holm was shown in flashback with a darker wig, AND Gandalf was amazed that he hadn't "aged a day" upon seeing him again. Holm is a great actor and has given the definitive performance as Bilbo. I hope PT and BDT ask him and I hope he is willing and able to do it. To recast the role with a younger more "bankable" actor would be a travesty.
slappy jones...let us get something clear
by conspiracy
May 15th, 2008
12:22:09 AM
We are not "cunts", "cunts" are guys who get pissed at the pub and whine about fucking soccer; and all the while their neglected wives are getting plowed by the Malawian delivery boy. What WE are is a group of self absorbed movie fans, or if you will, a collection of assholes, fucktards and twats who live to give shit to any director, writer, or actor who gives us the slightest reason too. And yes, we are damned proud of it.
Skraggo....Agreed Holm for Bilbo
by conspiracy
May 15th, 2008
12:25:07 AM
Anyone else would fuck up the whole mess.
I remember submitting a question all those years ago.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:26:44 AM
I also remember that survey they had fans do.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:28:08 AM
These things really helped Lord of the Rings come closer to the books than intended! Awesome to see them doing this kind of thing again.
Martin Freeman for Bilbo Baggins
by antonphd
May 15th, 2008
12:34:43 AM
So he'll be in a super huge hit and we'll get all of the The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy sequels.
We're going to see the Necromancer aka Sauron!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:39:27 AM
We're going to see Saruman and Gandalf fight together!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:40:17 AM
We're going to see Strider in full ranger glory!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:41:03 AM
We're going to see Balin lose Moria to the Balrog!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:41:47 AM
We're going to see Agent Smith as Elrond!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:42:19 AM
We're going to see more Liv Tyler!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:42:44 AM
we're going to see giant fucking spiders!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:43:20 AM
We're going to see Beorn turn into a massive bear!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:43:51 AM
We're giong to see Bard of Laketown!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:44:15 AM
We're going to see the three trolls!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:44:49 AM
We're going to see giant fucking eagles!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:45:14 AM
We're going to see mountain giants!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:45:51 AM
We're going to see mountain goblins!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:46:16 AM
We're going to see a shitload of drunken Elves!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:46:46 AM
James McAvoy would be perfect for Bilbo
by antonphd
May 15th, 2008
12:46:47 AM
He looks close enough to Ian Holm and he can certainly play the character right. I like it. Kudos to whomever suggested him above.
We're going to see a giant fucking dragon! SMAUG!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:47:29 AM
MARTIN FREEMAN as Bilbo! He's the "Tim" for the job.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:48:27 AM
We're going to see a shitload of Dwarves!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:51:16 AM
We're going to see a massive Dwarven Army!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:51:50 AM
How will this fit into 2 movies? 4 Hour movies, that's how!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:52:33 AM
I saw a UNICORN in Harold and Kumar 2!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:53:39 AM
Fuck some of you are pathetic
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
May 15th, 2008
12:54:15 AM
LOTR is the greatest filmaking achievement of the last 40 years. He out-berged Spielberg and truly has a place with Lean.
This should help speed up HBO's A Song of Ice and Fire!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:54:59 AM
A Game of Thrones will be amazing in 1080p.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:58:09 AM
We're going to see President Barack Obama watch the Hobbit!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
12:59:11 AM
Epic fantasy will reach it's filmic zenith!
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
01:02:09 AM
NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks is right.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
01:03:51 AM
The 2nd movie will still be stuff that Tolkien wrote.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
01:07:46 AM
Except it was mostly notes and stuff in the apendices. But it's there!
I need a real job.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
01:08:54 AM
It's hard being an Evil Archer these days. Too many guns.
by Stereotypical Evil Archer
May 15th, 2008
01:09:59 AM
but as much as I'd love to be a part of this
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
May 15th, 2008
01:28:37 AM
aint nuthin getting me up at 6am.
I'd like to know the impetus behind...
by poeticwarriorII
May 15th, 2008
02:14:10 AM
the decision to make Hobbits that looked like they spent 3 movies wanting to jackhamer each other in the shitter and long slow mo tickle fights. I'd rather PJ have absolutely nothing to do with this movie but oh well.
LOTR is the greatest filmaking achievement of the last 40 years?
by poeticwarriorII
May 15th, 2008
02:15:51 AM
Are you fucking shitting us all or do you believe that incredible load of shit?
I nominate Toby Jones for Bilbo
by Horace Cox
May 15th, 2008
02:23:07 AM
The guy practically IS a fucking Hobbit. Thus endeth the argument. make it happen Pete and Guillermo.
AICN Query template
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
02:33:23 AM
Hey PJ will you [insert puerile ironic observation] ?
NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
by kwisatzhaderach
May 15th, 2008
02:35:23 AM
WTF are you talking about? LOTR on a par with Lawrence of Arabia? Delusional.
Based on their track record
by Mace Tofu
May 15th, 2008
02:35:31 AM
I have no questions : )
Just got off the phone with Kurt Russell...
by Motoko Kusanagi
May 15th, 2008
02:38:12 AM
...and he wasn't laughing...
NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
by kwisatzhaderach
May 15th, 2008
02:40:50 AM
Do you really think that LOTR is better filmmaking than The Godfather, The Godfather Part II Apocalypse Now, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Wars, Jaws, Alien, Aliens, The Terminator, Terminator 2, Blade Runner, The Shining and 2001: A Space Odyssey?
Damn You Michael Bay
by MCMLXXVI
May 15th, 2008
02:47:46 AM
Damn You Michael Bay
All I want to know is...
by 11dayempire
May 15th, 2008
02:48:32 AM
...will they hurry up and film Christopher Lee's part? He's not getting any younger. Oh, and also, if Bilbo's not going to be played by Ian Holm, are they going to reshoot the "facelift flashback" from FOTR?
Why did the Elves show up at Helms Deep?
by V'Shael
May 15th, 2008
02:49:33 AM
For me, that really fsked up Two Towers, and the bleakness of that battle... the last stand of the humans.

I know that in the original adaptation, Arwyn would have been with the heroes at Helms Deep (another thing which made no sense to me) and that THAT would have been the reason the Elves turned up.

But since they wisely dropped the accompanying Arwyn idea, WHY THE HELL DID THE ELVES TURN UP LIKE THE GOD-DAMNED AMERICAN CALVARY?

V'Shael
by kwisatzhaderach
May 15th, 2008
02:58:40 AM
The Two Towers was totally fucked. Do Peter Jackson and co really think they know how to tell the story better than Tolkien? What eogs. The supplemental material on TTT extended edition which has PJ and co explaining their decisions to alter the storyline are unintentionally hilarious. No wonder Christopher Tolkien hates the films.
V'Shael
by kwisatzhaderach
May 15th, 2008
03:00:23 AM
Also, why did the Elves help them at Helms Deep but not bother to help them out at Minas Tirith or the Black Gate? Stupid, stupid, stupid. Jackson had a lot of nice visuals but let's be honest folks, there are a lot of flwas in the LOTR movies.
Not only are there flwas
by kwisatzhaderach
May 15th, 2008
03:01:12 AM
but flaws as well. Note to self - never type fast when you are irate.
Casting of Bilbo
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
03:13:30 AM
Don't forget Toby Jones and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Two great actors.
Kwisatzhaderach: Yeah there are flaws..
by V'Shael
May 15th, 2008
03:14:37 AM
But I think most are minor. Like holding the Gandalf / Witchking fight until the Extended Edition... Cutting Saruman from the theatrical release so that he's missing from the artistic credits, even though Sean Bean got in thanks to a flashback...

The Helms Deep one though... that REALLY pissed me off. You might as well have had the Millennium Falcon show up and blow the Orcs to fuck with some lazers.

What's the climax of the second film?
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
03:19:10 AM
If Movie One is "The Hobbit", then births, deaths and marriages aside, not much drama occurs between III 2941 (death of Smaug, Necromancer driven from Dol Guldur, Battle of 5 armies) and III 3001 (Bilbo's party) ... at least according to the Appendices to LotR.
V'Shael
by kwisatzhaderach
May 15th, 2008
03:28:04 AM
Now it would have been COOL if the Falcon showed up. Seriously though, I agree aboutt he Witch King and Saruman being cut from ROTK, another 5 minutes wouldn't have harmed a 3 hour film. The Mouth of Sauron should have been in there too.
Hey Horace Cox
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
03:31:48 AM
... didn't notice your post. Cast Toby Jones and save millions on Special FX!
i totally agree
by GavinVanDraven
May 15th, 2008
03:48:41 AM
Why are so many fanboys such moronic wankers?
by Boromir
May 15th, 2008
04:00:32 AM
Unfortunately, Mr. Jackson can't answer that question; only the moronic wankers themselves know why cynicism is their favorite lens through which to view the world. I do know this much: Childlike wonder and anticipation is far beyond and beneath them, and it's their loss. Cheers everyone.
Will we get natural CGI camera placement, so we don't get...
by redtom
May 15th, 2008
04:00:32 AM
... all these computerised sweeps and pans that only server to make you think thoughts like "this is cgi" and "this is animated" - not what I want to be thinking when watching a movie - whatever else about Transformers, the CGI was excellent coz they placed all the "cameras" naturally within the 3d world...

If not Ian Holm, is one of his two sons
by Dingbatty
May 15th, 2008
04:07:55 AM
an actor who greatly resembles his father?
hey irritable
by Horace Cox
May 15th, 2008
04:08:15 AM
Dude, great minds think alike. The more people championing the cause of "Toby Jones for Bilbo" the better in my opinion.

James McAvoy isn't a bad suggestion either, but Toby Jones would be absolutely perfect.

And maybe Ernest Borgnine for Beorn. ;-)

I think we need a REAL bear to play Beorn
by Boromir
May 15th, 2008
04:14:25 AM
Start scouring those bear bars, Peter. Let's get somebody who really looks as though he might turn into a big hairy animal by moonlight.
kwisatzhaderach, okay you got me with 2001
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
May 15th, 2008
06:37:50 AM
and I'l admit that the Godfathers and Bladerunner are better films. Hell, there are plenty of better films. I'm simply saying what he accomplished, filming what was considered unfilmable, was an amazing achievement. The passion put into those movies helped make them feel real to millions of people. I feel sorry for you man, you must be pretty bitter to hate arguably the most successful adaption of all time.
Now THAT is Cool
by Evil Chicken
May 15th, 2008
06:37:54 AM
Should be good reading.
That guy who wrestled with Borat,
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
06:39:28 AM
... he's probably hairy enough. A very nuanced actor as well.
that is fucktastically cool
by just pillow talk
May 15th, 2008
06:40:28 AM
Nice...
I hope we get another "cool" question from Laturo
by Lost Jarv
May 15th, 2008
06:58:21 AM
submitted, because that last one to stallone wasn't a fucking waster or anything.

He needs to cast Burt in it somewhere.

I would ask Del Toro if he really said this at Canne in 2006:
by Ingeld
May 15th, 2008
08:03:44 AM
“I was never into heroic fantasy. At all. I don’t like little guys and dragons, hairy feet, hobbits — I’ve never been into that at all. I don’t like sword and sorcery, I hate all that stuff.” I read this on another web site. If true it doesn't exactly instill me with confidence.
Yes, Holm for Bilbo.
by DocPazuzu
May 15th, 2008
08:06:08 AM
He's quite the spry fellow, even given his age, and it's not like Bilbo Baggins is an action hero on the level of Riddick or The Transporter. With the subtle use of CGI and small standins, they could pull it off with no problem -- and it would sure as hell look more believable than Christopher Lee lightsaberin' as Count Dooku.

IAN HOLM FOR BILBO!

Where the hell is ringwearer9?
by DocPazuzu
May 15th, 2008
08:10:13 AM
This could be it, his big break on the internets!
maybe he's out buying a new suit?
by just pillow talk
May 15th, 2008
08:11:46 AM
the big brit playing the new Punisher for Beorn
by pipergates
May 15th, 2008
08:16:19 AM
or even the king of Sparta
**SIGH**
by Damned if I can login
May 15th, 2008
08:24:05 AM
Why don't we just go ahead and get it over with?

1) Gandalf has rabidly-pierced overly-tattood sidekick since he ain't "kewl" enough by himself

2) Beorn falls off a cliff, twice

3) Mirkwood is replaced with a post-apocalyptic city with goth teens instead of spiders

4) No Rivendell, period. "We felt it just wasn't relevent to what we consider the story should be"

5) Gollum and Bilbo have a wire-fu match, winner takes the neckband (rings are *so* last century)

6) Oh, and shot after shot after shot after fucking shot of Dwarf tossing. Lots of Dwarf tossing.

Let the ass raping commence. That is all.

Wait, I forgot one. Two words. Uwe. Boll. Now....that is all.

ringwearer9 - Uriah Heep of the Talkback
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
08:33:41 AM
..."tragically, Hackson's clumsy mise-en-scene, ill-considered colour correction, thematic misconceptions and serious CGI errors (grainy grey skin anybody?) undermine whatever limited grasp he has of the blah, blah, blah ..."
"Uriah Heep of the Talkback"
by DocPazuzu
May 15th, 2008
08:35:31 AM
Ha!
heh- Uriah Heep!
by Lost Jarv
May 15th, 2008
08:56:59 AM
funny.

Ringy's off at a LARP convention- he had to make a new cardboard sword and it takes him a long time in Special Ed.

Brian Cox for Thorin Oakenshield
by performingmonkey
May 15th, 2008
09:01:50 AM
He is 100% right. They NEED him to do this. The Dwarves need to be big guys because at Hobbit scale they need to, er, dwarf them. Hugo Weaving should return as Elrond, same goes for Cate Blanchett as Galadriel, Martin Csokas as Celeborn, Ian Mckellen as Gandalf, Christopher Lee as Saruman, Andy Serkis as Gollum. Aragorn is in his 20s so I guess they would cast a younger actor. He doesn't feature in The Hobbit but I'm sure there'll be a place for him in the second movie.
20 most common questions:
by ArcadianDS
May 15th, 2008
09:22:59 AM
So this will ready like every interview they ever do for the rest of their lives.

Wouldn't it be better to answer the 20 most UNIQUE questions?

Speaking of CHRISTOPHER LEE
by CarmillaVonDoom
May 15th, 2008
09:23:52 AM
Is there anyone else more deserving of an honorary OSCAR at next years ceremony. If PJ or GDT are voting members of the academy, they ought to get his name in there. Not sure what the qualifications are, but please honor Mr. Lee while he is still here to appreciate it!!!!!!
Ian Holm as Bilbo!
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
09:32:12 AM
Again, we've already seen the older Bilbo in a wig in FOTR. It is ESTABLISHED that Bilbo is Holm in FOTR (as well as THE HOBBIT flashback). If we get a much younger actor to play Bilbo, the whole point of the Ring preserving its bearer is shot.

PLUS, Holm is one of the best actors alive and is absolutely PERFECT for Bilbo. Anyone else would be second-rate. Don't tell me makeup and digital tricks can't de-age the man to the way he looked when first filming FOTR. I don't want someone who LOOKS like Holm to play Bilbo. I want HOLM to play Bilbo!

Whatever the case, I'll be right pissed if they cast a kid like E. Wood for the role. Bilbo needs to look at LEAST middle-aged to be consistent with the films to date.
honorary oscars are stupid
by ArcadianDS
May 15th, 2008
09:33:57 AM
its the academy's way of saying "hooray for career second placers" and "sorry that you're about to drop dead - here's a consolation statue."
What's stupid about a little generosity
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
10:14:11 AM
... especially for people who've done quality work (though perhaps not brilliant work) for decades.

There are quite a few Oscar awards, based on temporary fads and enthusiams, which haven't stood the test of time.

Most honorary Oscars seem to go to people whose career work, in retrospect, wasn't properly recognised but still stands up.

Andy Serkis VS. Doug Jones
by Frodo T. Baggins
May 15th, 2008
10:20:55 AM
Im going to have to go with Serkis. Hes a great actor in general. Im tired of seeing Doug Jones's long ass fingers. & even his friends hate his own voice. Atleast Serkis voiced the precious. Doug must have pooped his pants when he got permission to speak in Hellboy 2 & not be voice overed by the baddest mother fucker in town next to Sam Jackson.
Oh & Will Bilbo Be Gay In This?
by Frodo T. Baggins
May 15th, 2008
10:24:01 AM
"Hey Frodo. Is that your boyfriend?" Sam "Im not his boyfriend. Im his gardner."
MENSA Invasion
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
10:39:11 AM
Time to bail.
Frodo T., have you ever read the books?
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
10:52:27 AM
If you had, you'd know that all of Professor Tolkien's works were explicitly created to out fascist closet cases (i.e., if you're keenly aware and bothered by the supposed "homosexuality" in LOTR, then--CONGRATULATIONS--you're [secretly] gay yourself).

Yep, Tolkien outed another one...

But, all (sort of) kidding aside, there is no master/servant relationship in THE HOBBIT of the sort that drives CERTAIN fans to distraction. Bilbo, in fact, never seemed the least bit sexual--hetero or otherwise. Ok, Bilbo never married, but Tolkien made him a "confirmed old bachelor" of the sort that wasn't suspicious--at least not in THAT way--back in the innocent, halcyon days of old.
A QUESTION FOR PJ & GDT
by MatDGZ
May 15th, 2008
11:03:51 AM
Firstly, I can't tell you just how excited I am now that The Hobbit movie is going ahead. Ever since FOTR I have been hoping this will come to pass and sure as hell its on its way! The talent and storytelling skill that is now involved with this project has my geek radar going freeking nuts! My question to you guys is: What are your main aims/hopes for the second film in terms of its content? There is obviously a substantial amount of story time in the 50 years between The Hobbit and FOTR, but how much material will be 'new' and how much will be sourced from other Tolkien works? OK, so that's really 2, 2 and a half questions... Cheers, and the very best of luck with The Hobbit.
Another question . . .
by Nice Marmot
May 15th, 2008
11:36:32 AM
PJ: You prepared to kick DelToro out of the chair and take the reigns like Spielberg did w/ TobeHooper on Poltergeist? Cause I'm not feeling his passion, like I did yours when you were getting started.

Anyone: Will Bilbo's house, inside & out, and the view from the front look ANY different than it did in LOTR? Asking because I'm a nit-picking GEEK.

Anyone: Can Nick Frost be cast as Bombir?

LOTR Films--a response
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
11:41:11 AM
I utterly loved the FOTR film--warts and all. So much was done right (the look and feel of Middle Earth in general; McKellen and Holm's spot on performances; Bean's Boromir; Moria) that the problems (wizard battle; negative, Goth Queen Galadriel; wimpy, Everyman Frodo) seemed inconsequential.

I REALLY liked TTT. There were some big missteps, though, and the campy typically Jacksonian writing/directorial device some others have mentioned (e.g., ORC (lifting weapon for the kill): No one's gonna save you now! [At that moment, a Rohirrim spear/Treebeard's foot impales/smooshes the hapless orc]) was annoying (and only got more so as the film trilogy continued). How many times can characters be saved at the last second throughout three movies? Other missteps: ignoble Faramir; Sam's execrable (though ironic) "by rights we shouldn't even be here" monologue; Gandalf the White's unfortunate void of personality after his return from Moria; over-bloated Helm's Deep with arbitrary presence of elves. TTT was beautiful (as with all the films) and awesome to watch, and Serkis' Gollum was utterly brilliant. But the directorial/screenplay warts, missteps and the unnecessary additions (e.g., Aragorn's mock-death) were becoming both time consuming and absurd. Despite its problems, though TTT was another success (if lesser than the original film).

ROTK was a mixed bag, but ultimately was the failure of the three films. From suddenly shallow, villainous Gollum ridiculously framing Sam to bloated and gratuitous battle scenes (ruthless and apparently all powerful Legolas' brutal slaying of innumerable Oliphants comes to mind) to one-dimensional, stock villain Denethor to Shadowfax's unnecessary murder of him to badly bungling Saruman's death to the final blow: no Scouring of the Shire--which if you have read Shippey's excellent JRRT: AUTHOR OF THE CENTURY you'll understand is what elevates LOTR from grand fantasy to one of the greatest works of literature of all time.

I think most of Jackson's problems have been due to his conventional idea of what can and can't be done on film, particularly with big budget films of this type. I know we owe him and his team for at least a couple of truly great films, and I understand the trilogy would have likely had greater problems had most directors/writers been involved instead of him, but I can't help looking back at two of those three films with an increasingly critical eye.

And I hope Jackson trusts Del Toro--who is, I believe, the greater, more creative and less conventional director--enough to give him free reign to do things his way. And I hope Del Toro trusts Tolkien's writing genius more than Jackson did.
More Random, Specifically ROTK Commentary
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
11:59:40 AM
BTW, I've been watching the Extended ROTK by bits and pieces recently. Weirdly, one of the scenes that works for me so well is Arwen's non-canonical and short-lived journey to the Gray Havens. Her vision of Aragorn and son is one of the most visually stunning things I think I've seen on film, and frankly I could look at Tyler's face all day. I love that whole sequence, in fact, though I am perplexed that the elves aren't speaking in Elvish!

Oh, and I LOVED Eowyn's monologue about her dream (which to my mind was a great reference to the drowning of Numenor). I think the budding romance between Aragorn and Eowyn was overdone on Viggo's part (too many long, lusty stares), but MAN that Otto's Eowyn is good--ALWAYS--even when the script isn't.

Concerning PJ's Legolas: It seems to me that Jackson is having Legolas display the nigh-deific powers I imagined he (and all Elves, for that matter) should have possessed when I was about 12 years old.

For the most part, movie Legolas' bad-assness works for me, though it gets a little extreme in ROTK. In retrospect, it would've been nice for them to get a better actor than ol' Orlando in the role, though he works well visually. For that matter, also in retrospect, I am beginning to be irritated by Gimli's movie, comic relief role. I honestly didn't mind in FOTR, but it became somewhat bothersome in TTT and extremely so in ROTK. Gimli's comic relief role should have LESSENED throughout the story, not increased.

Oh, and I don't like all the elves but Elrond and Arwen being blondes. They at times look like some sort of effete, 80s, fluff-metal band.

The death of Saruman was a mess. You could tell they really had to piece together some rough bits for it (and why the HELL would Legolas kill Grima for killing Saruman??? at LEAST somebody could've told him [too late] to stop as in the Scouring). Speaking of which, Gandalf is WAY too weak and unsure of himself in ROTK (and what's with his coughing fit--*this* is the pumped up version of the guy that killed the Balrog??). At the same time, he seems to lack compassion at times (as in dealing with Denethor or Saruman, whom he seems to want to keep alive only to pump him for information). You can almost believe Saruman's harsh words about him using those he purports to love.

Speaking of Denethor, It's a real shame they bungled him so badly. He is one of my favorite minor supporting characters. As usual, Jackson has fearsome trouble with shades of gray.

OTOH, the palantir bits wear very well on the second viewing. I like practically everything there except for Aragorn being electrocuted by it. Oh, and of course they should have had Aragorn reveal himself to Sauron purposefully to draw the eye away from Frodo.

And I still wish deeply that Jackson had kept Smeagol ambivalent towards Frodo (as in TTT). Anyway, that's all the commentary I've got time for. Ah, it's nice to be off work...
I'd ask Del Toro ...
by Ringwearer9
May 15th, 2008
12:31:10 PM
What did you mean when you said that you hate fantasy, dragons, and little people with hairy feet? Because the Hobbit is filled with that stuff. And do you hate Wizards and Magic the Peter Jackson says he does on the commentary to the Fellowship of the Ring DVD ?
Good Question, Ringwearer
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
12:38:58 PM
And one that I've wondered about since reading he said that a few weeks ago. I don't understand your last sentence, though. Are you stating that Jackson said he hated wizards and magic? Interesting.

I know it's potentially troubling, but maybe disliking fantasy in general will give Del Toro a fresher, more creative take on the source material.
Oops.
by Ringwearer9
May 15th, 2008
12:40:39 PM
Oops.
by Ringwearer9
May 15th, 2008
12:42:52 PM
I meant "And do you hate Wizards and Magic as Peter Jackson says he does on the commentary track to the FELLOWSHIP extended edition DVD?" Yes, Le Vicious Fishus, Jackson did say that. It's why he says he wanted the wizard fight to be so physical, also because he thought it was funny for two old men to be cracking eachother's bones. He also said he saw Gandalf as being as evil and manipulative as Saruman (on the Two Towers extended edition commentary).
hobbits jackhammering
by crashbarbarian
May 15th, 2008
12:47:09 PM
that was hillarious... but honestly jackson... will McKellen be on the side lines suggesting to the actor playing Bilbo that he needs to gently touch the Dwarves and have tickle fights with them. Oh Smaug... Oh Smauggy Smaug Smaug. (Smaug) I love it when you are so sensitive Mr. Bilbo. (Bilbo) Just trying to be gay viewer sensitvie... lets tickle!
hobbits jackhammering
by crashbarbarian
May 15th, 2008
12:47:22 PM
that was hillarious... but honestly jackson... will McKellen be on the side lines suggesting to the actor playing Bilbo that he needs to gently touch the Dwarves and have tickle fights with them. Oh Smaug... Oh Smauggy Smaug Smaug. (Smaug) I love it when you are so sensitive Mr. Bilbo. (Bilbo) Just trying to be gay viewer sensitvie... lets tickle!
sorry double post
by crashbarbarian
May 15th, 2008
12:48:00 PM
Le V, TTT and RotK suffered from deadline issues
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
12:58:40 PM
As far as one can glean the story runs this way:

The original plan was for two movies. There are interviews with Jackson in which he outlines the condensed plot.

Check 'em out. Tolkien purists would have rioted at the excisions and compressions.

Thanks to Bob Shaye's grandiosity, Jackson was offered 3 movies, but was given very little time to come up with a dramatically shaped middle movie. Some weak script decisions occurred during the accelerated development of TTT.

On top of that, the fate of the second and third movies hinged on the success of LotR. If the first movie did poorly, there would be tiny FX/ post production budgets for the second and third.

That tends to explain why so many popcorn elements were inserted. Mass appeal was a commercial necessity to recoup the huge investment required for art direction authenticity. So we have "comic Gimli", "skateboi Legolas" etc. The marathon shoot went forward on this theory. They didn't know if it was safe to reduce the popcorn level because there would be no audience feedback until Dec. 2001

Even though the movies were made, effectively for half-price at NZ prices, with a high proportion of inexperienced crew, and relatively inexpensive actors -including some brilliant choices like Bernard Hill, Billy Boyd, Miranda Otto, McKellan, Lee and Holm - it was never an option to make a movie which was totally loyal to the earnest tone of the novel. The question was, what compromises could they live with.

During 2003, the massive increase in CGI shots apparently turned the process into a death march and an editing epic which might explain some of the disjointed quality of RotK. The CGI ranges from brilliant to dodgy (eg Trolls enter the gate at Minas Tirith)

So yeah, Le Vicious, there were some disappointing decisions. I guess Jackson, Walsh and Boyens wince through some of the scenes you mentioned.

On the other hand, they somehow pulled off the impossible. Who could have imagined how the brilliant the supposedly unfilmable elements (Gollum, the huge armies, orcs and trolls) would turn out.

It's the best Lord of the Rings film we'll see in our lifetime.

... hinged on the success of FotR ...
by irritable
May 15th, 2008
01:16:55 PM
Curse you, fingers.
Well stated, irritable
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
01:21:20 PM
I'm grateful for the films, though I do know some of the most egregious errors come from Jackson's proclivities (e.g., sadistic, brutal animal deaths) rather than a tight timeline. Also, I think Jackson was wrongheaded about a good number of decisions that were purely made out of artistic stubbornness and, frankly, dumbing down the source material for his audience. For instance, the exclusion of the Scouring was an explicit Jackson choice, as he thought it would be too anti-climactic (as if the pace of the multiple ROTK "endings" weren't already anticlimactic due to Jackson's plodding, directorial pace during the last quarter of that film). In fact, a lot of the big choices he made were made because he didn't want to break so-called film convention. These kinds of choices were what disappointed me the most and were made--I believe--chiefly for financial rather than artistic reasons. A shame.

I know if Jackson had had his way, the script would've been MUCH less canonical than it was, and I credit many cast members for constantly challenging the script with Tolkien's on words.

All that stated, Jackson & Co. did what I believed was nigh unto impossible: successfully presented the look and feel of Tolkien's Middle Earth on the big screen.

And I agree that it's likely the best LOTR we'll see in our lifetimes.
own words...
by Le Vicious Fishus
May 15th, 2008
01:35:27 PM
tricksy fingers indeed...
Okay, I submitted both questions to the Chat.
by Ringwearer9
May 15th, 2008
02:12:01 PM
I asked about Del Toro hating fantasy, dragons, little guys with hairy feet, and sword and sorcery. I also submitted a question as to whether he agreed with Jackson's take on Gandalf as a manipulator as bad as Saruman. We'll see what happens.
@performingmonkey
by milurs big fat mouth
May 15th, 2008
02:15:34 PM
No, Gandalf was in the pits of Dol Guldor years before the Hobbit. That was where he got the key to Erebor. During the Hobbit was when they drove Sauron from Mirkwood back to Mordor.
Overall...
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
02:26:20 PM
I always assumed the removal of the scouring of the shire was to demonstrate the dislocation Tolkien spoke of when returning to green and pleasant England after the war experiences where he lost so many friends...that plus you'd have to tack on about another hour to the film that had already hit about fifteen emotional climaxes. In some ways you get the impression from the trilogy that the writers wanted more to represent some of Tolkien's personal concerns rather than the direct concerns of the books.

But of course, Jackson did rightly claim that writing and making the films was like laying the tracks down in front of the moving train. An epic scale movie usually finishes people off in the best of terms, I imagine making it on the hoof so much was always going to run into some serious flaws. Having met a number of the SFX people who worked on the trilogy I can safely say none of them were entirely happy with some of the decisions as they wanted perfection but had little to no time, and deadlines that frankly would have scared a low budget indie movie. I can only hope that the pre-planning pre-production on the Hobbit and Hobbit-to-Trilogy movie will give them chance to try out some of the weaker options and abandon them before momentum gets ahead of them.

And merely from the brief scenes in Pan's Labyrinth, I'd say it's fairly obvious Del Toro can stage a bloody but comprehendable battle in a style that doesn't fall into Avid slo-mo. Jackson did some epic scope scenes beautifully, he worked like he was trying to bring some of the best Tolkien fantasy art-work to life, but his in the thick of it fighting just, as many have pointed out, smacked of a director overwhelmed, filming too many random shots and hoping it would cut together nice in the edit.

Director versus creator
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
02:32:13 PM
I also get the impression that Jackson got into a weird mindset of trying to be a great adaptor of literature and a great film director. Very few great films come from accurate adaptations because the beats and pace of film, accompanied by real-time dialogue and the emotion of music and silence is so different to reading great prose on a page. But he seemed to swing too often from trying to make an adaptation that was close enough and worrying that his movies wouldn't stand the test of being cinematically acceptable to non-readers of the book. His comments that the Extended Editions were inferior to the cinema editions because they ruin the pace of the films pretty much showed the conflict there.

I'd hope Del Toro wouldn't fall into that and would just have the guts to do the films he wants.

Manipulative Gandalf
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
02:34:51 PM
I get the feeling Gandalf should be a manipulator. I'm not remotely an expert on the books, so tell me to shut up, but as characters, I kind of get that the wizards are trying to push events one way or the other and the 'means justifies the end' mentality comes across. Even if it does cause Gandalf more concern than Saruman.
And now I'll shut up
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
02:36:48 PM
Almost as talky there as the Two Towers exposition scenes...Anyway, votes for the Hobbit film done in Spanish. I'm sure it'd be better.
Well...
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
02:46:00 PM
It's true that new Point Break movie might steal a little of the thunder.
nah...no one is excited about a LOTR film
by slappy jones
May 15th, 2008
04:12:50 PM
I mean its not like anyone liked the original trilogy. ... and no one likes the book The Hobbit. so why are they bothering? oh hang on....I forgot dannyglover.....you're a moron.
Del Toro Is A MUCH Better Director Than PJ
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:13:15 PM
So I'm sure he'll do an excellent job, if not a better job than PJ. That said, there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER (save a cynical money grab) for making 2 movies of the HOBBIT. One 2 hour 30 minute movie would be more than enough. Maybe a 3 hour. But two movies? Cmon now.
I'm Looking Forward To The POINT BREAK Prequel Trilogy
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:15:20 PM
Thats when the full mystery of why the fuck anyone liked that awful and unintentionally hilarious movie to begin with will be revealed once and for all!
I Would Ask PJ
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:18:09 PM
Why the fuck did he remake KING KONG into a 15 hour long epic p.o.s.? Why not a good solid 2 hour movie? There is a good solid 2 hour movie hiding within the copious folds of hubris-fat PJ psychically transferred from his body to the film.
I'd Ask Del Toro
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:21:21 PM
How did you get to be so awesome? How come Pan's Labyrinth is so awesome? Is your middle name awesome? Also, did you feel weird hanging out with Eli Roth when he did that sycophantic interview with Takashii Miike? You looked a little uncomfortable.
GDT's "fantasy" comments...
by morGoth
May 15th, 2008
04:22:00 PM
Reference an interview he did on April 28:

MTV: Just two years ago, you were quoted as saying, "I was never into heroic fantasy." Did your views change?

Del Toro: I wasn't. I completely gravitated towards horror. For whatever reason, I never hooked into sword and sorcery. I really rediscovered fantasy through my love of filmmakers as a filmmaker. Something kind of popped and jelled. I now can empathize with one side of the fantasy genre without ever wandering into lubricated musclemen with giant swords. "The Hobbit" occupies a particular seat in fantasy that is irreplaceable. They can dredge up old cadavers in my closet. I'm not running for president. I'm a f---ing filmmaker! I'm just trying to make the movie I want to.

Amazing how history repeats itself…back when harry first started breaking LotR stories, it was the same thing only different Talkback posters. Many were just so worried at every little syllable that popped out of PJ’s mouth that contradicted that person’s perception of their personally perfect LotR (more p’s please). Now here we go with GDT and folks have already written The Hobbit movies off because, OH NO! GASP!!, GDT HATES Hobbits and hairy feet! Would that YOUR lives were viewed under the microscope of fandom and you were never allowed to change your personal taste over time.

Is there really any comparison between Conan the Barbarian and The Hobbit? Not hardly, other than some folks insistence on shoehorning both into the nebulous realm of “fantasy” literature. At any rate, Pan’s Labyrinth proved he can certainly direct a fantasy movie so don’t get hung up on something he said in the past. And remember, even if you loath Peter Jackson, you must admit that he, like GDT, knows the difference between a movie and a book.

Moneygrabbing whores
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
04:23:02 PM
But who in the Point Break reboot will get to say in full Bill and Ted Cali dude glory, 'I! Am! An! Yef! Bee! Eye! Agent!'? Just a travesty without that line...

I suspect the second film, if it brings back many of the original actors for Aragorn etc will actually do a lot more business than the Hobbit. But, yes, seriously the idea of the film industry making films for profit is pretty revolting. But, hey, Del Toro never makes a Euro off his acclaimed films so it might be safe as art.

Gandalf Is A Manipulator... Sort Of Like Obi Wan
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:23:21 PM
Manipulators for a good cause. And yes, I do know that Gandalf came waaay before Obi Wan so please don't bother telling me the obvious.
Pan's Labyrinth = Psychological Horror Fantasy Historical Drama
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:25:41 PM
One of a kind! And a work of sheer genius!
Laserpants..
by morGoth
May 15th, 2008
04:26:31 PM
...heh, perhaps you are the last person on the planet who doesn't know that movie two is to be a bridge movie (of sorts...NOONE knows yet including GDTPJ). The Hobbit will not be broken into two movies, OK?
DannyGlover
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:31:39 PM
But didn't Obi-Wan basically straight up lie to Luke to get him on board for the universe saving mission? He doesn't spill the beans on the whole thang until ROTJ!

"But what I told you was true... from a certain point of view."

That sounds like manipulation to me!
We need the manipulators
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
04:32:00 PM
It's pretty dull when all the planning is done by evil and good, to quote space balls, is dumb. I have no idea if it's in keeping with the books wizardry but I always thought the good guys should be scheming too. The idea being that the wizards are ancient and long living and far seeing and with motives set in the long term and almost riddles to others.

Pan's Labyrinth is the benchmark for Del Toro to live up to. Of course I'm into sure how crackling the dialogue would have been in English. But I think it's a shame Del Toro will really have to scale back on the in your face fantasy darkness without a hard rating to keep everything family friendly. I'm sure he can manage terror and fantasy and blood-letting and humour without the harder edged adult content but it'll be a step away from Pan's.

The Last Person On Earth!
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:33:05 PM
All hyperbole aside, I think that there are probably a WHOLE LOT of other people on earth who aren't even aware that a Hobbit movie is in the offing, actually.
Hmm, right off hand...
by morGoth
May 15th, 2008
04:33:13 PM
...I'd say millions of people are excited over The Hobbit+ movies. S'matter, not to your personal taste? Quick! Call God and have him strike down GDTPJ before this thing takes off!
A Bridge Movie Though?
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:37:32 PM
So its gonna be completely new material? I dunno... sounds kinda... money-grabbish. Not that I'm against that per-se if its cool. I mean theres all sorts of stories that can be told in Middle Earth. Like, Brokeback Hobbits! The true story of Frodo and his Sam as they froliced across hill and dale, mountain and riverstream, laughing, touching, loving... THE LOVE THAT DARE NOT SPEAKETH ITS NAME!!!
Totally Agree Dannyglover...
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:38:13 PM
He had to manipulate. That was my point.
Manipulation again
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
04:41:10 PM
I think that the manipulation is necessary, especially in Star Wars when you change plots later on, ahem, but seriously, I think the point is even Gandalf feels like he's doing the right thing but he has the moral decency to at least feel a little shitty about doing it.

I just think these films will be interesting to see if they can stand alone, be great films even for the one or two people who never saw the Trilogy, or whether it really is a case of turning a trilogy into a Quintology (whetever the word is.)

morGoth, RELAX
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:41:39 PM
I never said I didn't like LOTR or the Hobbit. I just think one movie is enough. I think the bridge movie is unnecessary.
Excellent synopsis irritable...
by morGoth
May 15th, 2008
04:44:03 PM
...now we take PJ's effort for granted. Remember "He'll never be able to make Hobbits look smaller than regular people!"? Yeah, LotR was a complete and utter failure in every way. Surprising, really, how he managed to convey a rather lengthy and complex story so that even the Joe Six Packs got it and loved it. Imagine that, rednecks appreciating something other than football and grunting without having a gun put to their head to make 'em…I s'pose that was an unfortunate byproduct of "dumbing down" the story. Eesh, what a revolting concept: Tolkien for the masses...tch. What a world what a world. Yes, completely failed in every way. Hmmm, and didn't he manage to win over legions of ardent Tolkien fans too? Failure, failure and more failure.
Just sharing a bit of info LP...
by morGoth
May 15th, 2008
04:45:21 PM
...now it's your turn to relax {[:^)
DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD
by auraboy
May 15th, 2008
04:49:17 PM
I think it's pretty obvious they're all being quite cagy about deciding whether this will be a Hobbit movie and a full on prequel to the Trilogy movie. Which I basically assume is because they haven't written a damn word yet. Personally I thought reading the Hobbit and then the LOTR appendecies added a lot to the main LOTR story, combining it all together, but I personally think, in film terms, they really would be better making a Hobbit film standalone, maybe just a vague hint of the ring as a central plot point, but a stand alone. Then the 'bridge' movie would be more a trilogy fan 'take it or leave it'. But frankly, in the end, this will all come down to the studios marketing decisions as much as the writers.
morGoth
by LaserPants
May 15th, 2008
04:52:13 PM
Well, when you say:

"S'matter, not to your personal taste? Quick! Call God and have him strike down GDTPJ before this thing takes off!"

It leads me to suspect that you have lost all perspective. I am not a hater of LOTR. I like it lots!
GDT's second movie comments...
by morGoth
May 15th, 2008
04:52:35 PM