I'm not saying that Obama, or Clinton for that matter, are better prepared, just asking if you had a problem with Georgie's lack of experience.

As for the film though, I'll wait and see. Everyone thought that Nixon was going to be some caricatured ranting conspiracy hack job too, and it actually turned out to be a pretty fair and measured dramatisation. So, we'll see.

So are you implying that the Republicans, specifically Bush and his cronies, have NEVER used fear to their advantage?

Or maybe this is how they WISH history would go?

Who knows? But Oliver Stone probably also believes that Barack Hussein Obama is "highly qualified" (after just 3 years in office -- most of which was spent playing "hookie" campaigning) for the highest office in the land -- the President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief of this nation's military. I bet that Oliver Stone also believes all of that mindless tripe spewed by the Left about how "unborn babies are not even alive."

No Country For Old Men wouldn't crack my top 500. I have no idea what I did to incur Roger Murtaugh's anger. Sheesh.

It will star Michael Moore, Al Gore, John Kerry, Satan, Teddy Kennedy, Barack Obama, half the populations of San Francisco and Boston, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, most Hollywood celebrities, and a bunch of crazy communists and Frenchmen!

No filming will be necessary. We can simply clip all of the HATE speech that is constantly played in "news" media outlets like CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, along with those found online at the Washington Post and New York Times.

Who knows -- maybe people will understand where all of this vilification of the Bush Administration comes from once they see it in one happy film coming straight from the asses and mouths (hard to tell the difference) of hyper-Liberal leftists everywhere!

The film can end with a nice photo of Jesus Christ being pissed on by some artist screaming, "Taste some of my golden tolerance, you bigot Jesus. If you want, I'll crap on you too!"

lol

Of course, Obama will demand a recount!

I might be able to watch Raising Arizona and The Apartment every six months as well.

"Milosevic got a bad rap. He was just trying to save his country from Muslim invaders."

"There is no such thing as a right-wing dictatorship."

He also had this to say about the massacre in Srebrenica:

"If you want to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs."

He's also been known to refer to George W Bush as a "liberal", and Nazis as "leftists". Also, since Nazis were anti-smoking and Hitler a vegetarian, "liberals are Nazis." AnimalBraneBalls also condones the use of genocide as a political tool in war if American interests are at stake.

He's one of the few truly evil talkbackers in AICN and the world would be a better place if he got run over by a bus today. Preferably three or four times. Y'know, just to make sure.

This public service announcement has been brought to you by the CoC.

Damn, you are a moron! Can you even name a SINGLE, SPECIFIC POLICY that Obama will bring (and how he plans to implement it)?

Of course not. Why? Because the inexperienced, unqualified Senator is banking on the ignorance of some portions of the American voters. HE HAS NO PLAN.

It would be best for Obama to go back to work in Tony Rezko's slums as he dines with rich, elitist TERRORISTS (like the Weatherman Bomber) as he continues to listen to the racist HATE SPEECH flowing from the mouth of his 20 year "Audacity of Hope" lying weasel of a pastor. THEN...let him come back and run again when he can do anything more than simply better articulate all of the speeches that he STOLE from other people.

As a black man, I am offended by his constant play and speeches on race -- and his refusal to own up to just how unlike most African Americans he is! My mother said that she has waited for the day when a real black man can become President. She told me on Mother's Day that she will still wait for that day -- even if Obama happened to win the election.

And Children of Men rocks. The Departed was good but Chilluns was robbed.

Is there anybody out there that really believes the America-hating Pastor's friend who goes lapel flag pinless and has friends like Ayers is really going to beat the conservative Maverick war hero McCain?

Things look rosy now, but Obama will get trounced in the debates, bank on it.

Obama is just spoonfeeding promises to the ignorant masses! He doesn't offer "change." He offers promises that he hasn't even articulated how he will bring it about.

Suck it if you want, but be warned about the sores that you will develop in your mouth.

Oh, and before I forget...

Keelhaul, usscygnus!!!

In liberal New York no less, where the poll was taken.

Not trying to stir stuff up, just giving you the facts.

McCain is going to win. Obama isn't electable enough with the general public. (though he is better than Hillary)

Half the fun for this moderate in November will be watching frothing right-wing nutjobs fall over dead from brain spasms as they try to grok the reality of President Obama.

Yes. We. Fucking. Can. Bitches.

If by chance there are a few politicians floating out in the ether who really do want to make a difference, the best they can hope for are changes on a municipal level because folks not aligned with special interests only see the inside of the Oval Office on Independence Day re-runs.

Most Liberals really don't think things through all the way.

By the way, to the gentleman who said that Conservatives don't know how to talk without screaming "Hate!" and insulting people...may I introduce the good Colonel.

Break time's over, bub. Go back to being a doorstop because the wall is getting all dented up.

Actually, you are not far from the truth, vik. We carried the war to them. What would terrorists be doing of not engaged over there? Building a better nation for their own people? I'm not being a smartass, I really wonder what would happen if we just pulled out of Iraq. You think every terrorist out there would say, "Okay, they're gone. Let's see if we can find a job and elect some good leaders and make this a nice place to live." Personally, I think they would find other ways of attacking us on our soil again. Plain and simple, they hate us.

The US will never leave Iraq. Didn't you hear? We're building permanent bases over there. The amount of forces that will be permanently posted to Iraq will make the base along the Korean DMZ look like a movie theater after someone yells "Fire!"

An American soldier is twice as juicy a target to a terrorist as a civilian so as long as they can stay in the Middle East picking us off, they will.

I may be a liberal but don't try to bait with with Clinton or Gore. I have huge issues with both of them. And any Democrat for that matter.

I have a co-worker whose brother is stationed in Iraq. He is furious that the American Media never reports on the good things they do. He has helped build schools, set up facilities to get clean water to towns and says that the majority of Iraquis he meets are happy to see him and his fellow soldiers. This is never reported. All we see is video of idiots throwing puppies off some mountainside or fools like Brian De Palma reminding us that some soldiers (a tiny percentage)behave in horrible ways. Oy.

Hey look, I don't want to get into a fight...the Colonel is honest. He hates the man. Agenda clouds reason though. That's my problem with a lot of lefty thought.

And as for what college professors think. I really don't give a damn what some person who has never left school in their LIFE thinks. These guys went from kindergarten to High School to Grad School to Tenure. They have never had to see the real world function. Ivory tower idiots, the lot of them.

One of my favorite lines from a movie: "You don't know what it's like out there Venkman. I've worked in the private sector. They expect results."

Sometimes me fingers run faster than me brain.

Does that mean Harry has to take politics somewhere else than his movie website? Heh.

Motarded! Damn, I like that one.

Dumber than Zombie shit aint to shabby either!

Keep posting man, you make me laugh!

Look...I admit that WMDs were a mistake. But to call that a lie is simply to show me that you fell for the liberal media's hogwash.

And please don't quote the BBC. They also admitted to leaning to the left. Once you have an agenda, you lose credibility.

Perhaps you need to be a bit less dismissive of other sources of information.

That does not mean that their policy papers are filled with self serving inaccuracies, but it does mean that what they say must be filtered through the knowledge of their undoubted bias.

ABC has been criticized harshly by the so-called liberal media for it's treatment of Obama, both leading up to and including the debate.

They were the ones who really flogged the Wright story, and they were the ones who in the debate, steered it clear or policy questions but hammered Obama on Rev. Wright, the weather underground, and other matters that pertained little to a Presidential race.

They were rightly villified for such churlish behavior. All the moreso because Stephanopoulous(sp) is a former Clinton operative.

Fox news came to the defense of ABC.

So, be careful who you are calling liberal.

Once Upon a Time in the West, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre: The Wrath of God, The Good The Bad and The Ugly, Days of Heaven, The Hustler, La Jetee, Come and See, Goodfellas, Raging Bull, Solyaris, The Thing, The Shining, Le Samourai, Seven Samurai, Stalker; Halloween; The Elephant Man; Children of Men; There Will Be Blood; 8 1/2; The Battle of Algiers; The New World; Batman Begins; Andrei Rublyov; Rashomon; La Soufrière

They start out pretty much in order but I gave up on ordering them about halfway through. And really this list should have about 200 more titles on it but for me that's the best of the best of the best.

I'd just rather keep more of the money I worked for rather than have it go to some welfare program. But that's just me.

Now...The Patriot Act, The Terror Watch List, The Wire Tapping of SUSPECTED TERRORISTS...how have they "strangled" you?

Back to Dancing With The American Stars ...

What have you got against good citizens owning guns?

Looks like Marissa's going home tonight. Although I'd prefer it be Cristian who gets the boot.

God I gotta stop I could just keep going. Probably still forgetting loads and will now get cussed out for forgetting something else.

Bridge on the River Kwai. Vertigo. Forgot them two.

Hasta la vista.

I kid, but really rants like that one and ccchhhrrriiisssm's make all Americans look bad. Next time you(not just you two, but everyone) have typed a death threat or an insult to someone based on political affiliation just reconsider. Maybe dwell on the this question: "Is a democracy ruled by two parties really a democracy?"

As to the film... As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know.

Or to put it another way,like this talkbalk and all the others that have been on this film and will be on this film. Every one of them has proven whether the film is actually any good or not will be fairly irrelevant.

What we do know. is that Loyal Bushies simply cannot stand to see their man or his term framed in anything other than FOX like soft focus polyannaism. They cannot resist trying to rewrite history or find excuses for the Pres with the highest Disapproval ratings of modern times.

So come the time of the films release what will happen ? FOX and the Loyal Bushies will take to the airwaves slamming it as hard as they can oblivious to the fact that just raising the subject of Bush this November will be Political Poison to McCains Campaign. (assuming he still has some campaign staff left and they haven't all shilled for the Burmese junta.)

Realistically there's little point in making a Biopic this close to the events unless you have something new to say or some original slant to the story that will frame it in a way no-one had thought of that brings new insight into the man.

So a straight Bio-pic will be met with predictable grenade throwing from both sides. A great deal of noise but signifying nothing. However if Stone frames it as some kind of shakespearian tradgedy or uses the War, 9/11 and the dramatis personae of Rove, Cheney etc. to show Bush as a man forced by events and people into his role in history then that could be sort of interesting just from a film watchers point of view.

One things for sure. Whoever has to play Harry Whittington has my sympathies.

And why is that so?

Conspiracy theorize much?

BTW the War wasn't delayed. So using that as excuse #24(b) just won't fly. The troops were in position in their Bases in the surrounding regions as quickly as logistically posiible once Bush had set the date. Even the minor hiccup of Turkish intransigance over flyover and staging was fairly quickly overcome. It was not critical to the invasion plan anyway.

The "Diplomacy" i.e. aborted second resolution at the U.N was given only the time Bush had allocated for it after Blair cinvinced him they had nothing to lose as the date was set anyway, and afterwards he ignored the U.N. completely. So sorry, you can't blame them either.

I'm curious though, exactly what colour will the colour coded alert system use for "the Economy is fucked." ?

Childishly obvious scare tactics clearly won't be enough this time. They didn't work when they were Full On in the MidTerms and they certainly won't work now that people are looking at their mortgages and paychecks so closely.

Besides You can only cry wolf so many times before even the kiddies figure it out.

Keep living in the dreamworld that thinks Bush and the War are anything other than liabilities though, because like I said those who don't have Rove tinted Glasses will be merciless in their judgement at the ballotbox.

Apparently, a whole bunch of 'em.

I guess the utter failures of Lions for Lambs, Redacted, Rendition and all of the other anti-war flops of 2007, as well as Fahrenheit 9/11's inability to get John Kerry into the White House in 2004 just never sunk in.

Oh, well... it's always fun watching desperate and impotent Democrats try to stack the deck by pumping out lame propaganda films and then start foaming at the mouth in confusion and frustration when they lose. :)

Pass the popcorn...

All Hollywood's really doing is wasting their millions, giving millions of slavishly-devoted Dems false hope that people other than themselves even care and continually proving themselves to be more and more irrelevant.

Which, in the end, is what makes their pointless flailing so much fun to watch. :)

I mean, they seem to not even realize that Bush isn't even RUNNING in the fall and the guy who IS the Republican nominee is known as "The Maverick" simply BECAUSE he's so unlike Bush and traditional Republicans.

Besides the film (even if it is mediocre or worse) won't annoy people as much as being told how wonderfull Bush and Iraq is, by loyal Bushies ignoring all polling evidence from the public to the contrary.

Have to agree with the Prof. though the timing is artistically at least a big risk. Working to a deadline can either galvanise and focus a film or leave it feeling rushed and incomplete. Subject matter aside though I would have thought Stone had at least one very good film left in him but it would be a huge surprise if this is it.

I've said before that Rove must figure greatly in this biopic, because Bush would've spent the last 8 years clearing brush and chasing possums in Crawford if not for The Brain.

If there is a Casting God, Paul Giamatti will play Karl Rove, and that's how I'm calling it.

Antonius, meet Brane, your soulmate.

And all those who still support the disasterous occupation of Iraq ? well, it's just a coincidence that it's THE Primary NeoCon Policy and what they will always be remembered for.

And what's the story behind "gays cause they pretend to be your friend only insofar as to gain power, then they forget about you." Because that sounds like a heartrending Doomed Romance Movie you could personally screenwrite going by the angst you demonstrated in that revealing post.

Nice try though if you keep saying black is white long enough you may just convince yourself that it is so, but sadly for you people have their own eyes to see and compare how the Dems and the Reps. treat Women and minorities so I'm afraid reality may prove a bit much for your admittedly crude spinning skills.

BTW Point me to where every one of these "Leftist" Networks came out against the Iraq Invasion before it began ? For the life of me it almost seems like every single one of them were cheerleading it and fell for the Propaganda and WMD lies.

No matter how you slice it, no matter how much he claims to support "true" freedom, he is still the guy who has diminished ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and said that genocide is perfectly okay if it serves America's interests.

In other words, nothing - NOTHING - this creature says has any validity.

Libertarians those kooks of the fringe whose ranks swell and disappear as the popularity of the Republicans rises and falls. Odd that.

Sorry I took you more seriously than you deserve for an instant.

As to who the fuck I am, I'm someone who isn't fuckwitted enough to think he is the sole arbiter of who is or is not allowed to have a view depending on whether I have personally seen any of their posts or not.

Perhaps that was a mistake and you didn't really wish to appear like a Douchebag who actually thought he had any real sway or standing in what is after all a free for all talkback. Hard to say.

Tell you what entertain us by telling us how Ron Paul is a champion of minorities because he takes contributions from Grand Wizards of the KKK ?

And once again for you in the cheap seats on the right: Nazi Fascist= RIGHT WING TOTALITARIAN. The term for those on the left is Marxist/Communist. This is not hard.

"We used to smarter"

"Watching Miami Vice is like watching one of the world's greatest chefs boiling a hot dog."

Incidently, a boiled hot dog is what passes for a "brane" in our friend here.

My wife ...

My love ...

"A nation founded by Bible thumping, tax hating, gun toting, Indian killing, slaveholding WHITE men. I fucking love the USA!"

Too bad you're not something the USA is exactly proud of in return.

"Pot meet kettle, you're certainly a kitchen utensil of pigment aren't you?"

I don't get how Communism winds up being so totalitarian and even fascist-like at times in practice.

For the record, both ideologies are abhorrent.

the buck should stop at the president. that way they'll be more "motivated" to surround themselves with better help.

the argument that policy makers working for the president are held accountable so they'll make better policy being the same thing doesn't work. they're appointed by people higher up the power chain, and get scapegoated by those same people when convenient. they're pawns.

besides. we don't elect those guys, so we should put all the responsibility on the office we actually have a voice in selecting.

They're all bastards, and I just loathe every politician on principle, just in case I miss one.

Let FREEDOM! ring, asshole.

Do you really believe that tripe?

I really don't know what this movie is going to attempt that Lil'Bush and Thats My Bush haven't already done. Though wouldn't surprise me if Oliver Stone has a deal with Satan as well and got some insider information about dem W's.

Poor Ron Paul and the Libertarians, this guy manages to make em seem reasonable.

On a lighter note, I can't believe DocPazuzu won the "Worst Sort Of Vile Leftist Scum This Site Has To Offer" award from Brane. Congratulations, though I was saving a place on the mantle for that trophy.

I will say this about Stone tho...I agree for the most part that he makes unconventional movies and I'm not the biggest fan of his work but I watched "The Doors" the other day after not having seen it in a while and tho I know it's probably 80% bullshit nonfactual...it was still a great film (even with Meg Ryan).

So Redkamel brought up the outing of a CIA agent, namely Mrs. Wilson. What exactly is "fictional" about that? And while you're in the mood for answering direct questions, care to debunk the entirety of his post as well?

The result?

All sensible people across the political spectrum see what a raving fucking lunatic and evil bastard you are and respond accordingly.

Interestingly, you never do the same when it comes to me. Naturally, you'll respond in one of two ways:

1) You'll claim to be taking some sort of "high road" and won't stoop to it.

2) You'll say there's "no point" since this place infested with "vile leftist scum".

3) You'll simply make shit up.

You just don't have the balls to do the same thing because you know the result will be virtually nothing. Oh sure, there will be those who disagree with me, but nobody will consider me to be remotely on the same level of drooling insanity that you are.

My christ you're offensive.

The fact is, your malignant nature permeates every aspect of your personality and that's why you creep women out.

And the Jewish exterminations that liberals don't care about.

I'm not even asking for justification for killing all those people, because clearly I realize I'm engaging in the absurb already. Aren't I clever and funny and cutting?

Conservatives need liberals for such a purpose and vice versa.

We have seen what either extreme leads us to.

On the far right, we get Nationalism, and hate. See: NAZI Germany.

On the extreme left we get Communism and stagnation. See: Soviet Union

I do not subscribe to attacking someone for their beliefs alone, therefore I listen to what people have to say - even when I disagree with them.

You have stated many times that you are a conservative, not a right wing extremist. Others may disagree with your assessment, but lets take it on face value. However, you undermine your argument by constantly using the most inflammatory (and far right wing) descriptions of people and circumstances.

You persist in villifying any whose position is to the left of your own.

You are not showing conservative values -but are simply attacking anyone who does not share your own views.

I do know that there are some left wing extremists on here, and they can be highly annoying as well, but the difference bewteen them and you is that your underlying message is one of divisivness and hate.

"Abortion is a good thing because it means more dead liberals"

and from this very TB "The Jews will wipe out all those shit heels and our problems will be over very quickly. Islam is a scourge that must be purged."

Monster.

Or maybe he's a Nazi.

If he was British I know exactly what he would be- he'd be a nasty piece of NF detritus. I don't know what the American equivalent is.

He's a monster.

And again...I'm not coming off on some asshole superiority bullshit by not opining in the trenches with any of you...I'm definitely tribal but instead of taking up arms I instead have my fun with the Battle Royales...pop in to demand blood...and then arrogantly pontificate on some bullshit that I think means something. Honestly, you guys should just have a pillow fight at this point. Getting the purple flash as the pillow smacks your grill might be a good thing no?

Slapping around a warciple!

1)The aforementioned "The Jews will wipe out all those shit heels and our problems will be over very quickly"

and 2)"Who here is in favor of a retroactive abortion for CA"

I'm off home to wash the stench off me.

Ignoring the fact that declaring war on a country to serve a theoretical neocon wet dream will cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of American mutilated, and over a hundred thousand dead, innocent Iraqi's - yes innocent because when not in uniform they are non combatants.

And for what purpose? To create more terrorists? Yes, job well done.

I am sure you and your neocon friends are doing high fives now on the success of the mission.

Oh yes, I forgot that other chestnut of justification 'we are freeing the Iraqi people'

Nevermind that they did not ask for it. Nevermind that the women there are treated far worse now than under saddam. Nevermind that when we do eventually leave, the country may sink into civil war. Nevermind that we are directly or indirectly repsonsible for over 100,000 Iraqi deaths. Nevermind that terrorists over run the country. Nevermind that American interests in 'freeing' them had little to do with freedom. Nevermind that ther eare far more repressive regimes in the world that hold their people hostage - Myanmmar anyone? Nevermind all of that. America has given you your freedom. Ok, you can throw the parade now.

But they both recycle the same shit.

My own method of gathering data is to look at the extremes of an argument, then to look at the majority of the middle ground.

I never trust a 'single source' for the definitive truth. And most reputable organizations will leave a trail that allows for investigation of their biases - and it is fairly easy to find out those biases.

And while it appears that BraneRobot's former moniker (AnimalStructure) may have been recently purged from the AICN archive, you can find more of him getting his ass handed to him here:

http://tinyurl.com/3vpg5o

You on the other hand simply recycle old and discredited news.

BraneRobot - you're a desperate, snivelling coward who hates America. How does it feel to be on the opposite side of win?

Easter Island, also known as Rapa Nui, desdended into tribal genocide. The tribes numbered only in the few thousands, but the outcome remained the same - total destruction.

If my tribe consists of 5 people and yours of ten, and you intend to wipe me out. That is genocide.

So please stop using the number of deaths in the civil war to defend the indefensible policy of the Serbs in the Balkans.

If the United States and allies had not stopped the intended genocide in the Balkans, you can be sure the number of dead would have been even higher.

So by YOUR logic, it's based only on the # of deaths, not intent like you said, that makes it genocide? So what's the number? Ten thousand? A hundred? A million?

In what way was the Plame affair 'fictional' as you say?

Somewhere hidden in between all the bollocks of these endless shout-down matches is real American democracy and that is never, ever a bad thing. The most refreshing thing amidst the batshit-ery is everybody mad posting here has a distinct lack of apathy. It certainly seems so anyway...and that is also never a bad thing.

Even if at least half of you are at least half wrong (why so binary anyway?).

(Your word used in this very TB.)

This is my very point about extremists which you claim you are not.

when confronted with an unassailable point, such as the genocide of a specific populace, what do you do? You argue it is not genocide because there are more muslims around the world.

That is truly pathetic.

So, in your reasoning if all of the Balkan muslims where wiped out, that unique group of people, totally removed from the earth, it would not constitute genocide simply because they shared a religion with another race of people half a world away - such as the Indonesian muslims?

That is they type of hatred, the type of self serving, twisted logic that is characteristic of extremists.

The number of deaths is irrelevant as to if it qualifies as genocide.

Genocide does not have to refer ONLY to the eradication of an ethical, racial, or religious group. It can also eliminate a national group, meaning one that is from a common country of nationality. In this case, Bosnian Muslims.

Do you realize you just said that activism is "against your nature" while simultaneously slamming "Libs" for not moving "out of the U.S. to go help some impoverished peoples they claim to care so much about."

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Do you see the trap you just caught yourself in?

Dude, I work in a very liberal organization that deals with global health issues. Nearly everyone in the position to has, at some point, lived in another country to help impoverished and sick people. We have hundreds doing so right now.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about, BraneRobot. That's why you MAKE SHIT UP like the ignorant cocksucker you are.

Your post; timestamped at 11:37:13 AM. I'll even highlight the item(s) in question:

"Islam is a scourge that must be wiped out."

"Scientology is just as bad as Islam and also needs to be eradicated."

Need I say more?

I don't care if people want to bash Dubya. I just don't believe Stone can do so with any kind of objectivity. Tackling a historical subject without making it unbiased is just making a movie about the filmmakers' opinons. Which is ok, I guess, but actually exploring the life of such a controversial person would be a better way, and make for a more interesting movie. "What I Think About George Bush" is a less interesting movie than "The Life of George Bush: Make Up Your Own Mind".

By the way, how come when some alcoholic, partying celebrity deals with his problems he's praised for turning his life around? Meanwhile, that part of Bush's past is now used as a reason why you should hate him.

Ah, never mind. I just think this film will be a wasted opportunity.

But it sounds like it is for you since you accept the Serbs being ethnically cleansed, but not the Bosnian Muslims. Why is that?

I will say this, though, AnimalBraneBalls:

If anyone wants proof as to how fucking insane and warped you are, they need not look any further than your idiotic rants about us wanting Christians and Jews exterminated. See, for every decent, rational and compassionate human being the default switch is set to "Genocide And Ethnic Cleansing Of Any Group Is A Heinous Crime". The reason nobody has debated the extermination of Christians and Jews is that only the extermination of ethnic Albanian Muslims in the Balkans was brought up. Not only that, it's being discussed because YOU have decided to make an exception to the mentioned rule that every decent human being lives by. According to you there is ethnic cleansing which is actually good. None of us have felt the need to declare that we oppose the extermination of other peoples because IT'S THE FUCKING NORM, you cretin.

NONE of the people arguing against your drooling stupidity here advocate the extermination of ANY ethnic or religious group in ANY part of the world. YOU'RE the only one doing that, you insufferable asscunt.

But further, it was Karl Rove who confirmed Plames identity.

So those "camel jockeys" you were referring to, i.e. the Iraqi people, you have no problem seeing them "rot"?

Your love of human beings is remarkable.

But at least you don't see color.

The Soviet fucking Union was also our ally in WWII, by the way, which makes your earlier point even more stupid.

Just for posterity's sake, quote: "I said the RELIGION ITSELF needs to be wiped out."

You read it here first, folks. BraneRobot wants the religion of Islam "wiped out"...thus "eradicating" Muslims.

And his unreasoning hatred, in the face of unassailable logic, is proof of his warped mental capacity.

He is truly a sad and pathetic creature, and I see why him and his kind must be confronted and denounced.

That statement could only make sense to a retard who considers the entire population of the solar system to be to the left of him. Thanks for answering my question.

Who's ducking questions now, shitface?

Sooo...I guess you're trying to tell me that you didn't see my post where I quoted YOUR VERY OWN WORDS to that effect?!

I knew you were blind but not literally...

And just so that you know, I do not believe in God.

http://tinyurl.com/ 4mf4bg

And the best is when Papa Bear throws his jacket at the end there...

What's wrong with this picture?

But religion is not God, and man cannot speak for God.

I like to imagine all the hardcore verbalists (my word) in these manic and rage-filled TB's actually being placed in a room together (yes, a really big room) and then actually expected to debate each other and then watch the fun unfold. The first part to get over would be everybody shouting on top of each other. At least in a TB you don't get that noisy bullshit. But then what? How do you decide a winner? Normal debate rules? The first person to call his/her opponent a 'cocksucker' or my personal favorite "A starving, purple pus dripping, rabid, drooling hyena of hatred" (brilliant) loose? Or does that give you bonus points? Especially when it's really colourful and directed at one's parents or lineage? Since facts seems to be non-existent, or at least the ability to check those facts, confirm or deny them, and then actually (fucking actually) have people *believe* that? Seems like the bulk of the binary pundits (us & them) nowadays simply refuse to listen to anything outside of what they've already read or heard; refuse to even think outside of their personal comfort zones of political philosophies. Any number of specific events are basically forever *unknown* because any facts will be questioned regardless of the validity of those facts. Video evidence? Nonsense...you can photoshop it! Pictures? PHOTOSHOP!!! Quotes reported from independent sources? No such thing as independent!!! Liberal bias!!! Neocon propaganda!!! And on and on.

So tell me if you will....if you can...I'd love to know...who won?

I purposely pointed out Armitage's support of the 'war on terror'.

A very simple google search of Armitage reveals a wealth of information and his support for the 'war on terror'. How is that not part of the 'official story'?

And the pathetic way of dismissing Wilson acknowleging his wife was truly absurd.

Her name was not classified - her job was.

If it was not a big deal, Scooter would not have gone to jail. Novak would not have been fileted, and Armitage would not have resigned - along with Rove.

Next.

Under Joe Wilson's Who's Who entry, along with being named his wife, was Valerie's position and employer stated as well? Was her employer's status as a covert front company for the CIA stated, too? At the time of the leak, she was officially classified as Covert by the CIA. Who's right? You, or the CIA?

Plenty of every day people work for CIA.

But few work as coverts ops.

Blowing a covert ops's cover is a crime.

Armitage was directly repsonsible for bringing pakistan into the 'war on terror'.

It is not a secret, and if you would simply read his bio you would know that.

Twit.

That indeed is brilliant.

I have been collecting the assorted works of LW, I missed that one.

Thanks

Once again you simply refuse to acknowledge the facts.

Armitage was in charge of getting Pakistan to support the 'war on terror.'

You seem incapable of accepting that fact.

Let me help you out here though. I will say Armitage did not resign as a direct result of the Plame investigation.

Does that make you happy?

It in no way diminshses his role in the 'war on terror' nor his outing of Plame.

Now, read what Colonel Activity posted and say that her outing was 'no big story'

How can you honestly say that the outing of a covert op, regardless of who did it and why they did it, is a non story when the CIA itself says it is a major detriment to their intelligence gathering?

How can you do that with a straight face?

Could be all over in days.

Nope, nothing factual to discredit the Plame Affair. Just some bizarre personal opinion that overrides the CIA's own statements and conclusions.

Now that's what I call schmebating.

Now, Henry Waxman read a letter written by the CIA Director that said:

"During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was undercover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information, prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information. Ms. Wilson served in senior management positions at the CIA in which she oversaw the work for other CIA employees and she attained the level of GS-14 — Step Six under the federal pay scale. Ms. Wilson worked on some of the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA. Ms. Wilson served at various times overseas for the CIA."

After the reading, there was some debate as to what the intended meaning was - covert or undercover. As you can imagine, the implications of deciding which is which loomed heavily over the Bush Administration at the time. Ergo, politics were involved.

So okay, Morbid. Let's step away from the politics of it all. Plame was either covert, or undercover. Both terms for all practical reasons, mean the same thing. Her work is secret. Was her work and status as a covert/undercover operative compromised by the leak? Yes.

Did the leak occur out of some retribution against her husband? Yes. If you don't believe so then tell me Why else would it occur?

You're entitled to your biased opinion in trying to discredit the Plame case, but the facts don't support that opinion.

I'm sure you're referring to Robert Novak's own reporting of his conversations with Hayden and other CIA personnel on the matter. That being the case, read and weep:

"Hayden indicated to me he had not authorized Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman to say Plame had been a "covert" CIA employee, as he claimed Hayden did, but only that she was "undercover" ... I obtained Waxman's talking points for the hearing. The draft typed after the Hayden-Waxman conversation said, "Ms. Wilson had a career as an undercover agent of the CIA." This was crossed out, the hand-printed change saying she 'was a covert employee of the CIA' ... Hayden told me that the talking points were edited by a CIA lawyer after conferring with Waxman's staff. "I am completely comfortable with that," the general assured me. He added he now sees no difference between "covert" and "undercover" ... Mark Mansfield, Hayden's public affairs officer, next e-mailed me: "At CIA, you are either a covert or an overt employee. Ms. Wilson was a covert employee" ... On March 21, Hoekstra again requested that the CIA define Plame's status. A written reply April 5 from Christopher J. Walker, the CIA's director of congressional affairs, said only that 'it is taking longer than expected' to reply because of "the considerable legal complexity required for this tasking."

Let me extract one important sentence out that for your benefit: "Hayden's public affairs officer, next e-mailed me: "At CIA, you are either a covert or an overt employee. Ms. Wilson was a covert employee".

So let me ask you - how exactly am I "pretending to know things that I simply don't"?

For Your Information, do not ever support BraneRobot on anything. He is a horrific NF scumbag with seriously twisted beliefs. See DocP's post above for some highlights.

If it's the former, you can be excused, but if it's either of the last two alternatives, then you are no better than he is -- a monster, plain and simple.

But let me assure you, that his stance is ridiculously circular and encompasses some truly horrific ideals. He is not to be supported, trusted or engaged with UNLESS you are heapind derision on him.

He is not rational.

As DocP said- you either didn't know about his beliefs or are just as bad. There is no "good German" defense for this one.

So let's get this straight.

On the one hand, you try to discredit Plame by saying the CIA Director himself did not authorize the use of the term "covert" (although he did not actually disagree with it), but when he and other CIA personnel reversed stance and confirmed her to indeed be covert, and undercover, you say the definition is a joke.

Even Brane has put up better arguments than that.

There's a difference between tenacity and fanaticism and he is so far from the line that it is a blip on the horizon to him

Sorry about that horrendously mixed metaphor.

Priceless

And I cannot stress this enough, please read more of Braneballs' posts before deciding to back him.

I think you'll come to a different conclusion regarding him and his 'tenacity' when reading his views on ethnic cleansing.

BTW, I totally agree with you regarding our responses. We are not reasonable when it comes to him, as it is impossible to reason with him. A typical piece of BraneRobot logic is (back when he was AnimalStructure):

Hitler was a vegetarian> Liberals tend to be Vegetarian> Liberals=Nazi.

It has nothing to do with conservatism. My old man is a die had thatcherite Tory and he would be aghast to be associated with someone like BraneRobot. He is a fascist.

No one would subject themselves to that kind of abuse - unless they enjoyed it on some level.

I suspect with some, that it is just a vent release (regardless of which side they come down on). But for those select few - like the BR, who is capable of a sustained argument in defense of the indefensible at times - see his above postings on the Balkan muslims and why HE does not consider it genocide, I think he is simply vile.

I doubt that very, very much.

Once again Braneballs, you believe that genocide is a useful tool when it serves (in your warped eyes) America's purpose. You are evil. You can continually spin the "whoa is me, everyone is against me, etc", but your beliefs are hideous in every way. This is not independent thought.

Right.

I'm sure you regret bringing up Waxman, but don't fret. Bringing up anything related to the case would have been just as easily debunked. In the end, we can all just look upon Morbid's opinions-in-lieu-of-facts "arguments" as case studies of dysfunctional debating. Thanks for playing!

Furthermore, if you look at my posts, I haven't once said I lean left. My stance is probably a long way to the right of BSB and others. I'm just to the left of you- there is a huge difference.

How's that huge "brane" working out for you now? oh great fucking genius of the Talkback?

Poor Brane. Must be lonely being the only person on the Right with the rest of humanity on the Left. That's how it should be though.

But no, I can guarantee that I wasn't there, although my Grandfather did get shot fighting Germans.

I would call your last two sentences a vote of "yes" for genocide.

And how about this nice little 'jab' at a talkbacker....

"Colonel Activity is proof of what happens when you take too many drugs and then decide to have a kid. CA was probably born addicted to crack or something. It's the only way to explain his willful ignorance and myopia when it comes to geopolitical events. CA, you're the worst kind of Liberal, a self righteous, close minded, intolerant, racist sexist little leaky douchebag. Oh how I wish your drunk father had punched your slut cunt mother in the stomach real hard when she was pregnant with you. Might have saved the world from your poisonous bile. Who here is in favor of a retroactive abortion for CA?"

"He calls what happened in the Balkans genocide, but not what happened in the Civil War, even though more people were killed in the American Civil War, by a large margin. " This statement makes absolutely no sense, oh intelligent one. You immediately equate some number in your head of deaths, and that must be what genocide is. And where did any of us say we thought Saddam should still be allowed to gas Kurds? Did I defend any of that? No, of course not, you are just grasping at straws with that statement. And I did mention what the Croatians did to the Serbs in one of my posts, and when they did retaliate, they targeted civilians. That is no less sickening.

You can continue to throw your labels around all you want to people who disagree with your madness, but that doesn't make you any less wrong in that regard.

Perhaps you can provide us with some refreshments as we get set to watch the show.

Morbid, you could learn something from Brane.

One of your more obvious failings is to make sweeping generalisations of your opposition- you cannot address each one individually, rather you lump them all into one group that you can dismiss as "leftists". This is not debating. I'm not sure what it is and am loath to turn soap-box into a verb. Polemicising?

I can't be arsed to go back up the TB, so please ask me something.

And, I have not argued with you by quoting any source, I have quoted you- and critiqued your own words. Unless you are one for spouting Liberal tropes?

One of those weak spots is your lack of flexibility.

You take a position, and will fight to the death to defend it - regardless of the merits of that position.

You are not alone in your intransigence on these boards, several ultra liberal posters do the same. But, instead of showing intellectual tenacity, all is exposes is a lack intellectual honesty and immaturity.

I will give you an example of your own lack of flexibility. The genocide argument.

Leaving aside how some might interpret your positions as actually advocating genocide - See your postion regarding Islam, that you contend is a scourge that should be wiped out. Some posit: How can you wipe out a religion but not it's followers?

But I digress, what I really want to point out is your position on what actually constitutes genocide, and how that shows your are intellectually intransigent.

You have stated that the Bosnian muslims, that were being sytematically wiped out by the Serbs, did not consistiute a genocide, because they were followers of Islam, and that there were more followers of Islam around the world, so it could not be genocide.

You further tried to equate the number of deaths of the Bosnian muslims with the number from the American Civil war, and said because the Bosnian number was significantly less, it could not be genocide.

You then rhetorically asked why is Bosnia considered a genocide, but the American civil war deaths not?

I and others pointed out that the number of deaths does constitute a level of genocide, but intent does. i.e. if a tribe of ten was wiped out by a tribe of 20, that would constitute genocide. Any entire unique group of peoples were killed.

That is what the Bosnian muslims represented. An entire unique group of people. The fact that they are Islamic, is irrelavant.

If the Bosnian muslims are wiped out, the fact that a group of Indonesian muslims half a world away, still exist, will in no way mitigate the total elimination of a unique people.

That is called genocide.

That definition is what you refuse to accept.

I think that I and others have presented a very sound and reasoned case for what constitutes genocide. But you refuse to accept that because of your intellectual inflexibility and desire to fight out your position to the death, regardless of how pointless it is.

And that BraneRobot, not your so-called brand of conservatism, but your inflexibility, is why I and some others oppose you.

A proven liar and a fantasist, eh? Where? When? Prove it. Prove it like I've proven your insanity time and time again (like in my earlier posts where I HIGHLIGHTED YOUR OWN WORDS to show you how scary an individual you are).

You've got to remember, BraneRobot. I'm not the one making shit up - you are. And thank goodness we have TBs like this that serve as testament and proof of this.

Anything else you want to say that we can use to destroy you with? Think carefully now...

In passing it's amusing to note the Serbs just Voted in a Pro-Western President so it seems they are at least progressing.

BTW Brane why don't you answer my question about Ron Paul and why he takes donations from Grand Wizards of the Klan ? I dunno why but I gots the feeling that you would know better than most if there is an answer to that one ?

But I will answer your question in hopes (though very low) that you may answer mine.

No, wiping out all of the NYC Muslims would not constitute genocide, and you know that. Which proves my very point about your intransigence.

You possess the mental capacity to understand that wiping out a neighborhood, does not constitute genocide, but you refuse to accept that wiping out a unique race or ethnic group is not the same thing.

The Bosnians are a unique ethnic group, and to wipe them out is genocide.

Now, will you accpet that logical definition of genocide, or attempt more circular obfuscation?

BTW I am not a liberal - but I have nothing against them or conservatives. I hate hypocrites though.

So by "wipe out", what exactly are you implying then?

"our problems", so it does have a correlation to American security?

If you are indifferent, why do you wish to have all "shitbag Arabs" blown up and wiped away?

"Islam is a scourge that must be wiped out."

"Scientology is just as bad as Islam and also needs to be eradicated."

So, what you're now trying to nuance is that by eradicating Islam (and thus removing a system of beliefs that provides solace to millions worldwide), you'll be making the world a better place. Pray tell...how does that even hold water? Seriously...could you be more offensive?!?!

It shows that you can be swayed by a valid argument.

Second, I have never advocated intervention for intervention sake. There needs to be compelling national, or humanitarian reasons for doing so. You are once again making sweeping generalizations.

I did, and still do beleive that America was right in stopping the Bosnian genocide, and I do wish that we - in conjunction with the U.N. would have interceded in Darfur as well.

But we are not, and can not be the police of the world, and I do understand political exigencies.

But what I will always be against is hypocritical standards that allow one group of people to be elevated over another.

I am former military, I understand American power and how we can and can not project it. I was deployed in support of some projections of that power. I would never risk American lives for the sake of a political theory or political gain.

He had a CHOICE. Accept it or return it. Which did he choose again ? Obama isn't my "Lib hero" but how the fuck could he have stopped Hamas saying those things about him ? It's not like returning a cheque where a choice is involved, but nice try.

Accepting Chinese money yep, they shouldn't have but since Wall-Mart and most of High Street America is full of their goods and the Reps. don't just accept their cash but endorse the Olympics that boat sailed long ago sadly.

"He (Saddam) gassed and raped his own people, why should I give a shit what happens to those camel jockeys? Let them rot for all I care." So those people that he gassed and tortured, they were all "shitbag Arabs" then? Please.

And because I don't agree with your outlandish views, that means I'm anti-Jew?

And since you do think there are some Arabs that are "nice", how do you think they will be impacted when you purge the Islam scourge?

In all seriousness, the world doesn't make me sick. However, people like you do. It's rather disheartening to sit here and read the vomit your spew forth on this website. Because when it comes to being a "joke of a human", you're the fucking punchline.

Tell me since we know you're certifiable, are you one of the Zietgiest crazies too ? Do you wake up in a cold sweat panicking over the silent black choppers of the U.N. or God Forbid the Devil Himself the President of the European Union !!!! Are we all sheep and only you can see how the Twin Towers were really destroyed ? Is the C.I.A. closing in on you as we speak creeping about your home trying to get past your Tin-Foil Hat ? How babblingly over the edge are you really ?

Your a joke but a joke tinged with sadness as you clearly have deep mental health problems and the breakdown sounds to be mere days away. You are in desperate need of a lie down in a dark room before you topple over foaming at the mouth about all the ehnicities in the world coming to get him. Your only release to fantasise about a War Criminal like Slobbo! Dear Sweet slobbo ! A despicable c*nt pure and simple.

Take your batshit Insane Genocidal loving ass and put it into an institution or a Klan meeting. Either one is fine with me.

Whatever eccentric things Ron Paul believes and however big a punchline his campaign became you have absolutlely NO idea how much you hurt him by your very presence. He might not have returned a Klan Cheque but he would disown your bugshit crazy ass in a heartbeat.

How can you type past the pools of spittle, dribble and drool pouring onto your Keyboard and monitor Brane ?

A child could see you are trying desperately tip-toe around your obvious race hatred but such is your pathetic grasp of the complexities of the world you fail miserably and paint all your sad little schoolboy insecurities onto everyone else in desperation.

You wouldn't know freedom if it bit you in the ass because your Hero Slobbo was a despised War Criminal caught and banged to rights. He died a pathetic death as befits War Criminal scum. Revealed to the world as a deluded fool guilty of crimes against humanity. Stuck forever in a jail cell for instigating Genocide. Even the Serbs have moved on and rejected their far right nutballs in favour of a pro-E.U. President.

Everyone can see whenever you say "you" and follow it with a childish caricature or stereotype, you are simply projecting how YOU feel about races. You obviously mean yourself not Commies or Leftists or whoever the fuck you think is persecuting your paranoid babbling ass that precise second.

Anyone who idolises a War criminal and speaks of Genocide and killing millions as casually as you do is franky too stupid to be allowed out on the streets without adult supervision. Naturally I assume you escaped such supervision to babble comically foolish incoherent hate speech through you're keyboard. And you could type as fast as you wish it won't dig you out of the deep, DEEP hole you are desperately trying to get out of.

Poor Ron Paul, it's his last fleeting shreds of credibility that's being destroyed here as a fantasist hatemonger lashes out like a trapped rabid animal because he simply doesn't know any better and doesn't have the brainpower to realise he is killing Ron Paul with every batshit insane word.

P.S. So How about it Brane are you a 9/11 crazy ? Is the U.N. plotting to take over the earth ? Is the head of the E.U. the Antichrist ? Why suddenly so silent ? If you believe such things why not just admit it ? You have nothing left to lose but your Tinfoil-Hat.

Yeah it was childish but you fell for it like a gullible idiot. At least I have a sense of humour and can laugh at pathetic jokes like you.

So tell us more Brane ? WHY was SLOBBO such a CUNT! Was it the Genocide ? Was it the War Criminal bit ? Come on don't be shy just because you have a weird disturbing fetish over a war criminal doesn't mean you are certifiable... no wait! It does. keeep digging dipshit you are now causing vast amusement.

Meanwhile I'll keep calling you a race hating lover of War Criminals not because I THINK you are, like 90% of your frankly incoherant babbling, but because YOU yourself were stupid enough to admit it.

You seriously lost it when you tried to excuse the Genocide of a War Criminal long, long ago. But keep typing. Those comebacks are DEVASTATING. And remember we're not laughing AT you we're laughing WTIH you, seriously.

Because It's not like you are flailing about desperately avoiding any of the questions is it ?

Hmmm... 12 year old Child or race hater with a Genocide & War criminal fixation... who comes off worst again ?

I'll come back later and see if you are still banging on about "brown people" or have finally decided to answer the Slobbo question as well as all the others you simpy can't or don't have the abillity to answer.

See ya ! :)

Good to hear you're not bothered. That's really all that matters to you isn't it ? Your personal comfort level while you spout tedious hate speech.

But you clearly aren't troubled or bothered that you idolise a Genocidal War Criminal so it's hardly a surprise.

If I'm lying why so quiet about your defense of slobbo ? hmmmm.... ???

I especially love his pathetic and desperate backpedal from calling the ethnic massacre of Srebrenica "breaking a few eggs" to make an "omelette" and how it was just part of Slobo's struggle to "free his country from Muslim invaders" to proclaiming how Muslims are "victims" of their religion.

What. A. Fucking. Loser.

By the way, Brany, YOU'RE not the reason we fight you. Don't flatter yourself. We fight you to keep the few poor undecideds from siding with you. Since you are now the most radioactive talkbacker to grace these boards since zfisk/homewrecker, we are doing our job very, very well.

Can you smell the pwnage, AnimalBraneBalls? It smells like... victory.

We never did find ouy why he Idolises a War Criminal ?

Don't worry I'll be sure to keep asking each and every time I see him on a talkback from now on becuase he LOVES the attention you see. I'll keep askinf if he's a 9/11 Zeitgiest crazy too as he just wouldn't deny that either.

He could also have explained why he was such a barefaced liar too, as when he wrote "Obama can denounce and reject the support of Hamas, but he didn't" He clearly was hoping no-one would remember Obama has condemned Hamas, repeatedly said that he would not meet with the terrorist organization, and also condemned former President Carter's decision to meet with Hamas leaders. That makes you a LIAR and a hypocrite Brane. Still dodging the question about why Ron Paul didn't give his Cheque from the K.K.K. back. The Klan ? Slobbo ? Brane don't care.

Lastly did anyone notice that time and again he called just about everyone who disagreed with him a 12 year old boy at some point ? Now that's ALMOST as creepy an insight into his thought processes as idolising a War Criminal scumbag.