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Extra hour....
by seanny_d
Apr 11th, 2008
11:37:45 PM
means extra Lost. If I have to wait another week for it, then so be it. I've waited long enough. Gotta love 3-hour season finales.
Another break?
by Chadillac69
Apr 11th, 2008
11:45:52 PM
I blame Widmore.
Fuck Yeah! Two hour finale!
by Ted Brautigan
Apr 11th, 2008
11:51:19 PM
A week after Indy by my math. Can't wait for both.
This is awesome except
by GregoryHarbin
Apr 11th, 2008
11:54:14 PM
That my birthday is May 22. I was SO looking forward to Indiana Jones AND the Lost finale on my b-day, but now I don't get ANY Lost at all.

But I'm not going to complain too much about getting a two-hour finale.

Kristen at E...
by Super Nintendo Chalmers
Apr 11th, 2008
11:58:16 PM
is a ditz. OMG! The Lost season finale is totally three hours!!!! Over two nights!!! Two weeks apart!!! Almost like that first hour shouldn't be shouldn't be considered as part of the finale, because the finale, by definition, is the last episode!!!!! OMG @ E!!!!!
Good scheduling
by Ted Brautigan
Apr 11th, 2008
11:58:22 PM
Sucks they're taking another break but I would have had a quandary on 5/22. Perfect day to take a week off for us dvr-less fools.
And what does this mean?
by Super Nintendo Chalmers
Apr 12th, 2008
12:01:44 AM
Kirsten @ E!: "In fact, I'm hearing that the writers' draft for the second half of the finale was 80 pages long, which led all parties involved to realize these stories had to be told now. Anything else would have felt like a rip-off for the fans" I don't understand- because the script was long, every involved party decided to, well, FILM IT? Isn't that why you write a script? To film it?
FUCK FUCKING YES 2 FUCKING HOUR FINALE SOMEONE FUCKING STAB ME
by The Ender Smites Foes
Apr 12th, 2008
12:07:31 AM
OH MY GOD! IM GONNA FISTFUCK MY OWN ASSHOLE TO THIS SHIT! OH FUCK ME
would rather Gays Anatomy have to have the break...
by nalapou
Apr 12th, 2008
12:27:14 AM
But Lost is always best when it ends May sweeps. As it did last year. So if this means that Lost will air the day after May sweeps ends (May 29th) then once again we get to finish our tv season on a high note with the best show on tv. AND an extra hour!!
SuperNintendoChalmers
by nalapou
Apr 12th, 2008
12:31:01 AM
I fucking love your hate of Kristin, lol, she is such an idiot. Everything about her is fake and moronic... Glad someone else out there agrees with me.
Fuck Grey's and Betty!!
by fedrich519
Apr 12th, 2008
12:34:38 AM
They should be the ones waiting till the 29th. Two hour finale rocks, but skipping a week sucks. Grey's and Betty can lick each other's taint. Lost is a much better show and it deserves better!!!
May Sweeps =
by Hercules
Apr 12th, 2008
12:44:11 AM
April 24 - May 21, 2008
This rocks! One hour season finales feel so cheap!
by cleftasunder
Apr 12th, 2008
12:44:23 AM
More Lost in one sitting and it can feel like an event. Thank youuuuuu
It's a 3 hour finale
by Greenleaf1
Apr 12th, 2008
12:58:44 AM
the first hour of the finale is the penultimate episode, and then the last two hours will air together 2 weeks after.
Grey's Anatomy and Ugly Betty are...
by PirateEmery
Apr 12th, 2008
01:01:22 AM
... shit. I'm sure all three Presidential candidates agree.
Uh, hasn't lost always had two hour finales?
by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World
Apr 12th, 2008
01:04:26 AM
The fuck are you guys celebrating?
This ain't that complicated
by Ted Brautigan
Apr 12th, 2008
01:15:01 AM
I suck at math but if they're showing two hours of new material on the 29th after two weeks off, the finale is TWO hours, not three. May as well say it's a five hour finale spread over six weeks or whatever.
rumor has it
by Napoleon Park
Apr 12th, 2008
01:23:33 AM
that next season begins with a 32 hour series finale spread over two years.
So tired of Lost
by CeejayNightwing
Apr 12th, 2008
01:32:39 AM
being stretched out for more seasons than it needs to get the story over with. At the end of last seasons finale thy finally got back home only for Jack to reveal they had to get back to the Island. Half way through this season and even more episodes explaining zilch and even more new characters being added to the rostrum and we still have no idea how they got off, why they still are there or why the hell they will have to go back regardless of the narrative shifting backwards and forwards through time. This show should have been 3 seasons max, now it will drag for another three years until it gets even more tired of developing filler episodes and finally end with with an anti climactic conclusion no doubt.
Actually the entire series has been one giant season finale
by leobloom
Apr 12th, 2008
01:33:10 AM
We're some 70 or 80 hours into it now.
lost got good at
by kylejames
Apr 12th, 2008
01:37:45 AM
blowing after the first season. Who gives a fuck when it runs? They're shitdicking around when they could wrapping up all the extra bullshit they brought on themselves by bringing... get this... new characters in STILL. Kill'em off. The publicity would do the show well if you hadnt already fucked it uo.
fuckers..
by TinSpider
Apr 12th, 2008
02:56:36 AM
I thought the whole idea of cutting the season from 24 to 16 episodes and showing it later in the year than usual was so that no breaks would happen..and we get fucking two????
Oh stop whinging you babies.
by rosasaks
Apr 12th, 2008
03:28:45 AM
At one point there were only going to be eight episodes this year, and now effectively there will be fourteen. Guess that sucks, right?
The writers care that we get a proper finale
by theycallmemrglass
Apr 12th, 2008
04:00:45 AM
We should be thankful. Better than be fucked in the ass by watching a show we love just to have it yanked out of existence before we get any answers.
WAAAAAALLLLLLTTTTTT
by Swollen_balls_low_hung_too
Apr 12th, 2008
05:19:53 AM
zZZZZZZ is a old fashioned dance
These gaps hinder the momentum
by Yeti
Apr 12th, 2008
06:02:27 AM
Still a season with gaps is better than no season at all.
leobloom wins
by sapno_krei
Apr 12th, 2008
06:55:31 AM
"Actually the entire series has been one giant season finale

We're some 70 or 80 hours into it now."

Best summary of LOST ever. The last 40 hours of the finale will be awesome.

I love lost, but...
by WeinerPenis
Apr 12th, 2008
08:08:38 AM
...this whole approach has definitely killed the buzz it used to give me. I mean, the season ended almost a year ago. Almost a year ago I was in these talkbacks going holy shit this will be a tough wait. And a year later what do I have? Some good stuff, sure, some new info on time traveling, etc. But no real new drama. No real Locke kickassery. No real Sawyerness. It's just all been a little too workmanlike and forumulaic, even though it pretends to be so different. I love the show and I will watch every single episode, but it's definitely a shame it couldn't keep that momentum up.
A Very British Question
by Roland_The_Gunslinger
Apr 12th, 2008
08:11:06 AM
I like to wait for the DVD's before watching Lost. I import them from the US, any idea on when about the DVD of this 4th season will be released?
extra hour
by smutpeddlar
Apr 12th, 2008
08:39:28 AM
i'm glad for an extra hour..that should give locke enough time to doom most of the ppl's chances to get off the island..mabye blow up a helicopter
A very American answer
by Ted Brautigan
Apr 12th, 2008
09:11:17 AM
In time for Christmas, no doubt.
Re: "Lost has never really had 2 hour finals"
by GregoryHarbin
Apr 12th, 2008
09:26:49 AM
This isn't true at all.

Season one's season finale was the three-hour 'Exodus,' which was aired the first hour on one week, and the second two hours on the next week. They weren't three separate episodes, they had one long connected story, and none of the hours had specific flashbacks, it was spread across the cast. No argument could be made that the two-hour 'Exodus, Part 2' was two episodes aired together.

Season 2's finale was two-hour. The penultimate episode was 'Three Minutes,' which was a Michael episode, unconnected to the two-hour finale, which aired the next week, which was a Desmond episode. No argument could be made that the finale was two separate episodes aired on the same night, since the story that began in the flashbacks in the first half is nowhere near completed by the end of the first hour. The acts are not structured like two episodes. The titles are only shown once. The show even aired over the hour break, so you were watching from something like 8:53 until 9:07.

The Season 3 finale was also two-hour. The penultimate episode was 'Greatest Hits,' a Charlie episode, unconnected to the two-hour finale, which was the Jack flashforward episode, which was two-hours long, and was one long connected episode. The same things I said above still ring true for this season.

So you see, when the showrunners say they have a three-hour season finale, shown over two nights, they're being serious. There IS a difference on Lost between an episode with a cliffhanger and a resolution following and an actual two-hour episode. The flashbacks are the main key, but you can tell when a plot doesn't wrap itself up by the end of the first hour.

In comparison, I'll point you to season 3 premiere of Battlestar Galactica, 'Occupation/Precipice.' This episode was conceived and shot as two separate episodes, not to be aired together, and you can tell that there is no serious connective tissue between the two.

Roland: British question
by GregoryHarbin
Apr 12th, 2008
09:30:11 AM
I'd expect series 4 DVD to be released in Region 2 in October, 2008, as was the series 3.
Fuck Yeah!!!
by SlickyVonBoner
Apr 12th, 2008
09:44:55 AM
It wouldn't be Lost if the finale wasn't 2 hours. Also, I have that week off from work. I smells a Lost finale party, without fear of being hungover for work the next day. SWeeeeeeet!
Whatever happened to
by mascan42
Apr 12th, 2008
10:00:33 AM
that rumor about Lost filming an additional episode for this season?
Mascan:
by GregoryHarbin
Apr 12th, 2008
10:05:58 AM
This is what came of it. They weren't asking for another episode, they were asking for another hour for the finale. They got it.
kylejames
by Ashok0
Apr 12th, 2008
10:16:59 AM
Are you an idiot? If there were no new characters, who the heck would be manning the freighter? What a moron.
fine, better than BSG final 10...
by Judge Briggs
Apr 12th, 2008
10:29:06 AM
now that is bullshit... hate you Sci-fi channel
can we turn every thread into a BSG love-fest?
by Hyperion Consul
Apr 12th, 2008
10:49:59 AM
if only you BGSers had the same love for Farscape back in the day...
[CLEARS THROAT] [CLEARS THROAT] [CLEARS THROAT]
by Osmosis Jones
Apr 12th, 2008
11:31:00 AM
GET RID OF THAT TALKING THERE WILL BE BLOOD AD!!!
Drink your milkshake Osmosis!
by theredtoad
Apr 12th, 2008
11:36:15 AM
DRINK IT UP!
i keep seeing this term
by phoenixmagi2
Apr 12th, 2008
11:56:51 AM
pop up can someone please explain to me what a penultimate episode is? thanks to whoever answers in advance
this season needs Locke and Sawyer episodes
by zooch
Apr 12th, 2008
12:29:23 PM
quick!
penultimate =
by Hercules
Apr 12th, 2008
12:47:05 PM
pe·nul·ti·mate [pi-nuhl-tuh-mit] –adjective 1. next to the last: the penultimate scene of the play. 2. of or pertaining to a penult. –noun 3. a penult.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
by TomBodet
Apr 12th, 2008
01:08:08 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Lost is great..
by malificus
Apr 12th, 2008
01:10:34 PM
..no matter how they parcel it out and you know it. Same with BSG, best show on tv EVER, and I've got Star Trek toys.I just alternate the two, watch Lost when it's broadcasting, watch seasons of BSG I missed on DVD when it isn't, tv nirvana when you toss new 30 Rocks in there. If you don't agree you can eat my poo.
Apple-faced goons..
by malificus
Apr 12th, 2008
01:10:56 PM
Aren't we missing an episode?
by skullivan
Apr 12th, 2008
01:25:02 PM
We had 7 episodes so far...episode 8 airs on April 24th. That would put Episode 11 on May 15th. Where does that put Episode 12 if 13 and 14 are airing on the 29th and there is no episode on the 22nd? Is it going to be 2 hours on April 24th?
Episode 8
by syn_flood
Apr 12th, 2008
01:31:47 PM
aired on March 20th
Would someone please contact the Lost producer(s)
by mrfan
Apr 12th, 2008
01:42:39 PM
TomBodet fell asleep again. Have Lost throw in some giant robots and I guarantee he will stay awake.
Herc needs more money
by buffywrestling
Apr 12th, 2008
02:31:50 PM
Especially if he's going to be Mr. Dictionary too. That's just added responsibilities.
Can't Wait for April 24th and beyond
by Spiny Norman
Apr 12th, 2008
03:16:45 PM
I get new Earl,Scrubs,Office,30 Rock,and New Lost. SUUUUHWEEEEET!
i keep seeing this term
by phoenixmagi2
Apr 12th, 2008
04:04:17 PM
pop up can someone please explain to me what a penultimate episode is? thanks to whoever answers in advance
Thanks Herc
by phoenixmagi2
Apr 12th, 2008
04:10:52 PM
but seriously why do we need a term for the next to lasr episode ofa show? premiere and finale I understand but who gives a fuck about the episode before last? I don't hear shows advertise as ' see the penultimate show before next weeks finale'. people only care about when the first episode starts and what date the finale is on everything else on the middle is the season of that show
Holy shit, 60 posts on language...
by Ravetin
Apr 12th, 2008
04:19:51 PM
...shouldn't we be guessing what the finale will be about? Seems especially interesting since 4.09 is supposedly a Ben flashforward. I figured that would've been finale material.
Thanks Herc
by phoenixmagi2
Apr 12th, 2008
04:32:21 PM
but seriously why do we need a term for the next to lasr episode ofa show? premiere and finale I understand but who gives a fuck about the episode before last? I don't hear shows advertise as ' see the penultimate show before next weeks finale'. people only care about when the first episode starts and what date the finale is on everything else on the middle is the season of that show
Penultimate as an advertisement
by Redfoot the Fence
Apr 12th, 2008
05:36:12 PM
The "penultimate" shtick is Herc's deal, so get over it. Of course networks don't advertise episodes using the term: the heads of 90% of the Red State populations would explode if such a big word were sprung upon them.
On language....
by Ted Brautigan
Apr 12th, 2008
05:47:42 PM
Give "penultimate" a break. It's just a $10 word trying to get by in a dumbed down world. Sweet thing about this internet dealie is you can just open a new window and look shit up if you don't know what the fuck it means.

The 1st episode back does sound sweet though. EW has a decent preview up. I agree we need Sawyer and Locke eps before the end of the season. Finale is bound to be Dr. Hero ep.

So if we assume the finale is Saint Jack.
by nalapou
Apr 12th, 2008
07:36:26 PM
And Ben and Locke are givens. Its right to assume the other 2 eps are Sawyer and Claire, right? I think I heard something about another Sayid one though... bye bye Claire?
2 breaks?
by Bouncy X
Apr 12th, 2008
07:37:54 PM
if this does indeed happen it will be the first and only true break this season. the so called first one only happened due to the strike. wasn't for that, this woulda been a straight through season as promised. hell even this possible break with the finale is only a possibility due to the strike.
no snl talkback?
by Holodigm
Apr 12th, 2008
07:50:56 PM
did herc finally give up after last week? it takes a lot of suck to make even walken look bad...
Penultimate and 'Sookieing' are awesome words
by GregoryHarbin
Apr 12th, 2008
07:57:12 PM
The term 'Sookieing' comes from Angel Cohn (now at TWP) who used to be at the (now defunct) TV Guide Talk podcast, who used the verb to describe fast forwarding the DVR or videocassette when a plot line or character appeared on the show that you disliked. Comes from the (oh God so terrible) character Sookie Belleville (neé St. James) on Gilmore Girls.

My fav sentence ever is: 'I watched the penultimate American Idol, but I Sookied most of it.'

5th season will suck even more than the 4th
by krycek08
Apr 12th, 2008
10:54:32 PM
its all off the island baby momma drama bullsht
What the fuck are you guys talking about
by Guy Who Got A Headache And Accidentally Saves The World
Apr 13th, 2008
12:26:50 AM
"Lost has never had two hour finales, just two episodes that aired on the same night." What the fuck DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? How is THIS ANY DIFFERENT? You think this is magically going to be 100 times better because they word it differently? The two hours are going to be more "Connected" somehow than any other two hours of Lost!? You make no fucking sense
the worst part of this short season thing...
by Ravetin
Apr 13th, 2008
03:52:56 AM
Is that if your favorite character doesn't get an ep. in these miniscule seasons, you have to wait at least goddamn 9 months for it. Why can't they air the 16 episodes every other week from October-May? Anyway... I'm guessing the finale will be Jack, too. Cliffhanger will probably be some sort of shocker involving Christian. I'd like to guess that they'd probably do the opposite of the S3 finale and have a flashforward that looks like a flashback, but they already kind of did that with the shitty Jin/Sun episode.
Two hours Lost?
by grampageezer
Apr 13th, 2008
07:52:21 AM
Isn't that usually what you feel like happened after you've finished watching most TV and movies nowadays? Two hours lost?
Still better than one hour!
by ccchhhrrriiisssm
Apr 13th, 2008
10:55:23 AM
A two hour finale is still better than a single hour finale. Besides, LOST has always had two hour finales. 'Nuff said!
BESIDES...
by ccchhhrrriiisssm
Apr 13th, 2008
10:56:15 AM
...there is supposed to be yet another fantastic "game changer" in the finale. It might have been difficult to do without two hours to work with.
I have a feeling the gamechanger...
by Ashok0
Apr 13th, 2008
11:54:16 AM
...is the tsunami kills half the cast.
Game changers
by Thunderbolt Ross
Apr 13th, 2008
02:14:33 PM
I really don't need any more. I think the show is fine as it is and the characters and acting and writing are enough to keep it a great show. I used to love the WTF moments, but I just don't think it's necessary to always have them. If the story dictates it, it's fine but I hope they're not going around looking for ways to fuck with the viewer. The last episode of season 3 was brilliant, and enough a of a game change to last me till the series end. Just tell the story and have faith in your actors, it'll be very good I'm sure.
whats going on?!
by harrisonfnord
Apr 13th, 2008
02:58:03 PM
i thought the reason they cut the number of episodes in a season from 23 to 16 after season 3 to get the same number of episodes but spred over an extra season. im pretty sure this was decided after season two, because of the number of breaks between episodes
Wow Node
by offput
Apr 13th, 2008
05:34:56 PM
You really need to calm the fuck down...
wow
by slkboxrman
Apr 14th, 2008
01:23:33 AM
NODE apparently was under a rock the whole time the writers strike was going on i guess..... LOL .....and NODE who cares if its after memorial day ? do u have big plans ? gonna kill urself or something ? cant ya push that back a week ? lay off the caffeine or get laid, wtf.
re: never had 2 hr finales
by turketron
Apr 14th, 2008
07:27:49 AM
What... the fuck. Have you never watched any of the other three season finales? Go back and read GregoryHarbin's post, it's 100% correct.

I'm glad they're doing this. I don't care if I have to wait, LOST deserves its 2 hr finales (less than 2 hrs on the dvd's, duh). Lets hope next season we get the uninterrupted season that they keep promising.

I'm still bummed about the new 10pm Thursday timeslot though.

how to trick people into watching a bad show
by ArcadianDS
Apr 14th, 2008
09:45:35 AM
take a popular show that they're already watching, and bump it for a special episode of said bad show. they'll tune in, find their favorite show not on, and will then, in theory, stick around to watch the rubbish you foisted upon them.

they've been doing this since I Love Lucy.

I want Kate naked.
by TimMighty
Apr 14th, 2008
09:50:40 AM
Remember the first episode where she stood at the beach cleaning her clothes ? Damn... That said, id like to add that i want to know what the fuck is up with BaiLing ..is she somewhere in the finale ? Yeah and kill of claire..i dont like the expression of her face..well she only has one expression mongoloidWhatsGoingOn expression...i also like to add that i demand more skin from Juliet...i love her cool and calm expressions + face but come on ?! Alex is kinda hot...dont know if she is legal but she is hot people...and shut the fuck up you guys thought the same. Kate Alex Bai Juliet...that´d be my List. Out.
Node
by offput
Apr 14th, 2008
11:02:14 AM
It wasn't ABC's decision to extend it. Darlton wanted it extended. ABC could do one of two things: move Grey's two hour finale to the 29th, or move Lost's two hour finale to the 29th. You can't air both on the same day. Given that Grey's a bigger ratings grab than Lost, they did the fiscally responsible thing. We'll still be getting 48 episodes spread over three seasons, and this season will get its story told, specifically because of this extra hour. So calm down and be glad that the strike didn't overly compromise the show you clearly love so dearly.
Oh wait
by offput
Apr 14th, 2008
11:07:33 AM
I forgot. There's a third option: ignore Darlton's plea for a third hour to the finale and let the season end with a lackluster episode. Quite frankly, I'm incredibly grateful for their decision on this and so should you.
10pm thursdays is going to suck
by turketron
Apr 14th, 2008
02:40:26 PM
I'll still watch, but I may have to d/l on some occasions.

Seriously... FUCK Grey's Anatomy.

The antepenultimate ep will be seen May 8
by rockgolf
Apr 14th, 2008
04:10:40 PM
That's the one before the penultimate episode. I figgured y'all could use a $15 word!
But doesn't each Lost ep. need like...
by Ravetin
Apr 14th, 2008
06:07:40 PM
...a month of post? That, plus a 18+/- day shoot, plus a similar time to write... is that even enough time to make a proper mega-finale? Especially for such a huge production?
Ravetin: The episodes do NOT take a month of post
by GregoryHarbin
Apr 14th, 2008
07:08:45 PM
IIRC, the season three finale went from script to air in a little over three weeks.

Considering they already have a couple 413 drafts in, this won't be a problem at all.

Node
by offput
Apr 15th, 2008
12:06:17 PM
I just don't see the point in raging so ridiculously against the company. TV doesn't exist without writers, but it also doesn't exist without financing. I agree that I would've preferred that they aired the full 16 episode order. However, your logic is flawed. ABC didn't want to air past sweeps and, through negotiations with the network, darlton and abc came upon five episodes as the amount they could do while maintaining the story and fitting into sweeps. Then, darlton realized they underestimated the depth of the story and needed an additional hour. ABC had already planned out the sweeps period and there was no way to fit a two hour Lost finale in. Therefore, they moved it to May 29th. I guarantee you that abc doesn't want this; they would probably prefer to tell the five hours and leave it as is until next year, because sweeps fucking matters to them. As much as having good shows matters, may sweeps is way more important to them. So, to appease their creative team, they reluctantly moved it one week. And yes, they *could* have simply ordered the remaining eight episodes and aired them beyond sweeps but, as I've said before, sweeps fucking matter to them. Does that make them evil or stupid? No, it makes them a company. I just don't see the reason to get so bent out of shape over it.
Lost is the greatest show in the HISTORY
by Sithdan
Apr 15th, 2008
03:17:09 PM
...of television. Right up there with the original V.
LOST writers should have learned from BSG writers.
by Pixelsmack
Apr 15th, 2008
03:46:48 PM
BSG...great tight story. Clean arcs. Gonna end it nice and neat after 4 seasons. No padded BS, no run away no where arcs. WTF you LOST hacks.........Oh right, I forgot, they didn't actually think the show would be picked up after the pilot and had to make everything up as they went along.
you know how I love absurd generalizations...
by offput
Apr 15th, 2008
05:12:25 PM
I don't like people who criticize corporations in blanket statements, mostly because not all companies are evil and stupid. But let's not forget the fact that without corporations we wouldn't have an entertainment industry as we recognize it. They finance TV, they finance movies, they give writers the ability to fulfill their greater visions beyond what a stage could do. Maybe the world would be better if philanthropists financed the arts so we wouldn't need commercials, or sweeps weeks, or shows canceled before their story is finished, but that ain't the world we got. So I don't see the point in biting the hand that feeds.
BSG + Clean Arcs = Does Not Compute
by offput
Apr 15th, 2008
05:15:20 PM
It's a great show, I love it. But if you really think that show has a tight story without any filler episodes you're stoned. And the writers of Lost didn't plan everything out, but you don't need to; you only need to define the universe in which your character inhabit and the basic arc of the show. After that you can flesh details out as you go. And I sincerely doubt Ronald D Moore and his cadre of writers have had the show planned out from the beginning (as you imply). And that's not a bad thing; serialized television can be planned or unplanned, so long as it's good.
re: Pixelsmack
by _Maltheus_
Apr 15th, 2008
05:31:04 PM
Lost has so many balls up in the air that they can't possibly land them all neatly. But at least I could believe they're still on arc (generally speaking). With BSG, RDM came out and said that he only came up with the final five are mid-season 3. That's making things up as you go along and it cannot be disputed. And no padding??? BSG has been mostly padding even since the Pegasus ep, mid season 2 (with a few exceptions like Exodus). When either show is good, they're really good (both shows are doing better than last season). But if you want tight, well planned arcs, you're pretty much stuck rewatching Babylon 5.
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