Seriously though, what an amazing opener for Season 4. At the end I was left wanting more, oh so much more.

Herc, would you agree that everything that happens up until the opening credits felt a lot like the intensity of 33? I was blown away by it, and I can't even say what it was here....sorry people, no spoilers from me.

Tom Zarek
Gaeta
Romo Lampkin

Obviously, the Final Cylon did not arrive at the same spot as the remaining Four did during their reveal. This leads me to believe that he/she was not onboard the Galactica at that time (i.e. Zarek & Lampkin). However, I'm fascinated by the idea that the F.C. may already be self-aware. If so, they would have no real "need" of the music and, therefore, would not be drawn to the same meeting as the other Four.

Now, with all that in mind, it leaves open the very real possibility that they have been a part of manipulating events since the very beginning. And in order for the Final Cylon's reveal to carry dramatic weight, I think it's going to have to be someone relatively important. But that's just me.

Just a guess but that is the fun of it.

The Cylon that D'Anna apologized to in the temple was The Hybrid.

Oh, and HOWDY to both of you--doff o' the cap from my chromey dome atcha!

Just a thought.

Besides, I am not one to steal a Purveyor's thunder.

Let us not speak falsely now.

ChromeHemispheri calTop, I would not dare imply that you are a predictable purveyor because you're not. But glady, when it comes to purvey opportunities, you ARE as sure as sunrise. :)

The answer is the Hybrid, whom she doubted, insulted, and expressed a fear of "becoming as crazy as" right before the vision.

The Hybrid Theory is thus Re-Purveyed....

If you are going down another path, you are Going The Wrong Way!

... get many hot women that will bludgen people to death for you.... hmmm....

Sorry guys, I get the chance to betray humanity in exchange for a cult of hot women, you guys are screwed! Screw 72 virgins, I want Baltar's deal with the 20 crazy sluts! :-)

That one babe certainly gave those guys a major beat down.

But "Baltar's Bitches" does sound more like a group that is likely to beat the shit out of someone though.

My money is still on Tom Zarek as the final Cylon, if for no other reason than it would really mess with fans of the original series and he's not an obvious choice like Adama or Rosalin.

I'm just sayin, is all....

so, none of the rules we think we may know about what a Cylon is, what a Cylon does may not apply at all to them....

worth keeping in mind.

it seems to me that the Four don't know how different they are, and hence their fear that they are just like the other skin jobs. It will be fun to watch them learn that, even as they have learned that they are not what they thought they were all these years, they are ALSO NOT what they think they are Now....

Little children live completely in the present, can't stand to go to sleep at night because it ends their fun--they fight and fight it. Parents know the children will wake up refreshed the next morning, the play will resume, and so they force the children to go to bed.

Perhaps we are the same way about death, but God knows more than we do? Our feeble understanding and labels cannot constrain & define God: He defined Us.

A "reveal" of the Hybrid still works: the Hybrid was introduced and a "sub-cylon" and more of a gibberish spouting ship controller than a sentient Cylon. A reveal of it as the Fifth still works, so One Will Be Revealed does not mean (necessarily) that it has to be in the fleet.

Though, as the Great and Wise NoHubris notes, a Hybridoid could be present in the fleet as well.

Thanks for havin my back, Hubie!

I have never found it yet.

Curse the Secretly Secluded Hot Babes and their Stealthy Ways!

Baltar's Buxom Babes Bunker = Awesomeness! God bless Callis...that guy's character has had more fine strange than any guilt-ridden scientist should ever be allowed.

Some great lines in this one:

I really enjoyed Tyrol's pep-talk to Anders; you could feel how he was trying to hold onto his identity.
I liked seeing Seelix get some action (I mean kick-ass Viper action!).
Tigh declaring Baltar's Cylon detection test was bunk since it failed to identify Boomer (when in fact it had) was a GREAT reference to something established in the first season.
Kara telling Anders she would shoot him if she found out he was a Cylon was priceless!!!
Some nice moments with Adama, Kara, and Lee, too. Fuck if Olmos doesn't have the most intense facial expressions.

Anders's interaction with the Cylon Raider...that left me speechless. Things are definitely happening now and that scene got me thinking...I may have a new theory on the way.

All in all, a great return. I'm already jonesing for next week.

It could have been a query-response thing, too, I suppose: Raider senses Anders, queries, and then gets The Reply.

Oh, wait--maybe being on an AICN TB on a Friday night is one of the Hot Babe Cult HQ's auto-filters, eh?

dammit!

All former regulars report! This is the final season premier for frak's sake. Get your sit-reps to the CAG ASAP!

Sharon: Who else would he be?

nicely done!

Tied for second are all the Kara scenes along with Baltar's prayer which strengthened his "faith" (From the Judeo-Christian perspective, this is how a person often believes -- by actually experiencing God in some way, such as Moses or Apostle Paul.

InHead Six wearing Red, but a suit instead of slinky dress--she means Business now....

Move it soldiers!

If they can hide from Adama and crew who and what else might be hiding there?

Fundamentally Different Cylons INDEED.

InHead Six's slightly different relationship/tone with Baltar is interesting.

Like the bit on deck, after assessing Starbuck's Viper: "there could be Cylons here now..." Tigh, Chief, WhatsHerName standing right there.....

really liked Baltar's "take me" prayer--fits right in line with his "all my sins forgiven" wish from a long time ago....

And she can FEEL they are close--perhaps in the same way the Raider "felt" something different about Anders, turned on him without firing....?

So, could it have been "God" appearing to her (Moses, burning bush style)?

Cheers!

Okay shameless self plug here - http://tinyurl.com/6xkvlz - I helped with the artwork on those patches, and we have A LOT more patches coming soon. Pretty soon we'll have screen accurate patches of all 10 squadrons available. Go buy some frakers.

The whole Final Five thing seems very tacked on to me, so once they retconned this mystery into the story they had to shift gears a little.

After the retcon I think what they were trying to imply by "And They Have A Plan" is that it has been the Final Five's plan all along rather than the Cylons we know, even though originally the 12 were all normal skinjobs like we already know about.

I'm still holding out for a robot dog before the series ends.... where's dagget damn it...

Does the BSG have a similar online encyclopedia?

looks to be very in depth, and could have be a good place to refresh our memories...

i'm sure a lot of you already knew about the site, but I just discovered it, and am sharing with you in case you didn't know about it.

And Moore stated on the Frak Party podcast that they didn't want Roslin, Adama, or Apollo as a Cylon. So take that for what it's worth.

And, er, Private Greg Harbin reporting for duty SIR.

So then, what really makes the Final Five all that different from regular human beings? I don't know. I haven't figured that part out yet.

Anyway, based on this guess, then who is the Final Cylon? Maybe it's Tyrol and Cally's son. Thus, Tyrol is sort of both one of the Final Four and the Final Five. Okay, maybe this theory is lame... but I'm betting the producers are going to come up with something convoluted like this and not simply say that, for example, it's Dualla or it's Zarek.

I repeat, Number 3 (D'Anna) very possibly did NOT see the final fifth Cylon, but she saw one of the ones we know about, and that one is probably Tigh.

So it could still be Cally, Starbuck, Geita, or Racetrack.

Hutzel and his team continuously turn in wonderful effects under budget. No one's quite sure how they do it, but the effects in Exodus (actually not that many when you go back and look at it), were not the reason for budget cuts later in the season.

Because this episode was mainly a bottle show, it shouldn't effect later episodes too much.

However, they may have to start cutting budgets to save for the end of the show: 3-6 episodes set on and around Earth. Depending on what they do there (futuristic cities? Starfleet? Distant past? Huge Cylon/Human war?), the arc could eat up a season-and-a-half worth of budget.

Shot survivors on Earth cheering as the flaming remains of the last basestar burns up in the atmosphere, credits roll. Camera pans out and away from this being shown on a tv screen in an original series bunk where OS Apollo and OS Starbuck (now aged to actors correct age) sit w/ OS Starbuck smoking a cigar.

OS Starbuck: "Frak you! I can't believe you were in that."

OS Apollo: "Well, 40 years in space and you get bored."

OS Starbuck: "They could have at least let me play a nugget that gets blown up..."

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: We've never seen a child in Cylon society. Am I right that there are no pure Cylon children?

Moore: That's true.

If Cally was a Cylon as well as Tyrol, then Nick would be a pure Cylon child, which Moore says doesn't exist.

They were never on a planet they believed was Earth.

What happened with Anders may be something similar, where Anders, once the switch was flipped, had the ability to control or command the Cylon Raider, though in this case he doesn't know it.

What was seen was indeed Earth, but in holographic form. A representation of Earth to act as a map. Technically they never left the tomb on Kobol. Everything they saw was a representation.

Jupiter isn't a Greek word it's a Roman word, essentially a Roman version of Zeus.

Also, maybe I'm wrong, but the names of the Zodiac signs, which were the old names of the tribes, (cancer, capricorn, leo etc) is much newer than ancient Greece.

I think Future Earth still makes the most sense...unless it's an alternate universe Earth where our history hasn't happened.

2. Not soldiers?!?! How about Colonial Warriors? :^)

Lost meets BSG today on W! beyond terrible movie, but has both Anders from BSG and Desmond from LOST. don't get too excited folks, it's like a harlequin MOW, but it is funny to see them. Made in Canada. gotta love it.

No sir, lie you did not. It was pretty frakkin' intense. Good call.

the book on one end of the table is open, the other is closed

there is an empty glass of water on one end, and a full on the other

Frak me

this episode was so great i want to watch it again.

President Lee Adama will be the final Cylon. Pray that I am wrong.

But full marks for that scene with Anders in his cockpit flying out into that shitstorm and just being like "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck". Goddamn that was outstanding

I could have tolerated some kind of "yeah they THOUGHT they were Cylons but it turns out they were wrong" story arc but seriously! They just come out and say THEY'RE CYLONS. DEAL WITH IT. And to throw a little more dirt on after pissing in your face, they have Anders put the final nail in the coffin of any doubt that these people were (somehow) Cylons all along...

Fuckin retarded.

Then again, seems they found their market, judging by some of the comments on this and the last two eps?

Just one thing that bugged me EVEN MORE than all the other bullshit - Lee talks to his father about "what if" Zach was a Cylon (almost like he's preparing him for some bad news - like Anders with Starbuck) and Bill doesn't say a goddamn word!

How the FUCK can his offspring be a Cylon? He was there for the conception, and presumably he was there when he came out of her mother, and was there for his upbringing. The skinjob Cylons had fake histories - where they came from, where they grew up - all bullshit. But Adama's kids do not have fake bullshit pasts - HE WAS THERE and knows better!

So how THE FUCK can any of Bill's kids be fucking Cylons??

Also, just one more thing - I could be wrong about this and am totally prepared to be corrected, but I do believe they got Baltar OFF the Galactica, right? And maybe you guys just didn't want to see it, but his cult was NOT populated entirely by women...

Sure they (final five) are "different" - fine - but... you do understand about the birds and the bees right?

Without casting any dispersions on your own intelligence, DO YOU GET ME?

-while I'm on the subject, not to put too fine a point on it, the suggestion isn't that people watching the show are stupid, but they seem to be "turning off their brains" and lapping up obviously stupid shit with relish. I like mindless action as much as the next guy, but let's not try and pretend it's high drama - which this show was getting away with for a good two seasons or so...

Let's explain: They saw Starbuck die. They knew she was flesh and blood human. But now all of a sudden she's back from the dead. Now she could be legitimately back from dead, never died in the first place, or its a cylon trick.

Then we have the Zach Hypo:

They know Zach died. They knew he was flesh and blood human. But what if all of a sudden he came back from the dead. Would they think he was back from the dead, didn't die at all, or its a cylon trick?

Now do you understand?

Maybe it went like this: Mankind on Earth never became technologically capable enough of building ships and exploring the stars. And mankind was dying out for some reason. So, under this doomsday scenario, mankind launched probes (containing the DNA of humans and other animals) into space, in search of habitable planets. And these probes were run under artificial intelligence technology -- the precursor to what would be the Cylons.

So if this is true, then what is the status of Earth? Earth is probably absent of all humanity. However, the Galacticans will learn the truth of their origins, and so will the Cylons. So maybe the two sides will agree to a truce, and then settle Earth together. The End.

They could have code-named each probe with the name of a Greek god: Caprica, Scorpio, Gemini, etc.. This would fit thematically with the astrological chart. (Thus, Earth launched 12 probes.) On Earth, there is probably a beacon that was set up to guide the human descendants back to Earth, so one day these people could learn of their true origins. So on Earth, there is probably a historic archive, and both the Galacticans and Cylons will access it to learn their truth, and the final days of mankind on Earth.

So say we all.

This according to David Eick, per the Caprica pilot.

...2 quick questions though...were people surprised at the 4 cylon reveal? while watchin the marathon, they showed the 4 revealed in the commercials so I wasnt too surprised, but were you guy? and also, who is Zarek?...

...and bout the last supper pic, I think its stoopid that we know that no one in that pic is the last Cylon...why would whoever said it, tell us that?...it takes the whole mystery away and makin us look at the minor chars...but what if Tory is the last Cylon? they never told us exactly what number each one is...so then, someone in that pic could be a cylon also (but not the last)...get it?...

Am I missing something??

Can I possibly be any clearer?

Yes the "final five" (six now?) are fundamentally different from other Cylons - although from what the remaining seven (six?) have said so far, all that is required to join the club is for one of your many copies to go nuts - and maybe there's some super amazing in the explanation for this "fundamental" difference (beyond sanity, I guess?) which is gonna blow me away but they are gonna have to pull some major fucking glow-in-the-dark funky fat-free shit outta their arses to get out of this one!

Jismaster, don't remember that quote but it seems to make it pretty damn obvious the last Cylon is gonna be Baltar.

If THAT is supposed to blow me away by the end of this season then colour me TomBodet...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZ

crazy theory I know, but what if?

Thoughts, comments, questions?

Col. Tigh is from Aerelon

Samuel Anders is from Picon

Sharon Valerii is from Troy

If we know where some of the other humanoid cylon copies pretended to be from, we might be able to figure out who the final cylon is?

What do you guys think? Thoughts? Comments? Theories?

HUGE major development and turn IMHO.

And while it's not that hard too understand, you seem hellbent on making a mountain out of a mole hill.

And some Angels as characters/elements in the story arc is not out of line: InHead Six has been saying, since the beginning, "I am an Angel Of God, sent here to help you". The "Leoben" that guided Starbuck into the Maelstrom did not say that he was an Angel, but he did admit that he was NOT a Leoben, but was only appearing to her in that form. InHead Six as an actual Angel of God could also explain how she was able to move from only appearing to Baltar, to suddenly being present on the Galactica, and then vanishing just as easily.

So, in addition to the Final Cylon, maybe we will learn that there are Angels of God in the story. This could lead right to God, as well. And maybe even Scooby's Count Iblis (Satan) will show up, too.

We may have a lot more surprises in store than simply finding out who the final cylon is. COOL.

...the only payoff wit a big surprise of the last Cylon is Galatica or Anders IMO...3rd place would be the doctor, and everybody else would be a let down...

...and bout Earth, it be real cool if the Earth they are talkin bout isnt our earth at all...think bout it, its a space show wit robots evolvin but no aliens...nice to see their earth might be inhabited by aliens...or what bout if the fleet is responsible for the destruction of the dinosaurs...

They do know that Zach was human, the Zach that died that is. However, what about the Zach who came back out of nowhere. They know Zach is dead, but yet here he stands, out of the blue, alive!

How can someone be alive when you know he died? Answer: It could be a cylon trick.

The question was whether Bill Adama thought Zach was cylon, or whether its the real Zach, when he himself KNEW that Zach died.

Regardless of whether you saw your son born, how can you believe him to be alive when you knew he died?

Again, the possible answer is that the son who comes back isn't the real son who died. The real son is in fact still dead, but this new one is a copy created by the cylons.

Now do you get it?

nice one.

J-Dizzle - I get your point - but nobody seems to get mine. Ok yes it's a HYPOTHETICAL and therefore not constrained by "reality" and maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill.

My point is simple. Starbuck COULD BE a Cylon. It is within the realm of possibility. Her coming back from the dead COULD well be a Cylon trick - or something else - all within the realm of possibility.

You cannot, however, apply the same logic to Adama's kids - whether in the make-believe universe of a "hypothetical" or not - logic is logic in any universe. Adama KNOWS his kids are real (can't say the same for Starbuck) and if one of them returned from the dead it COULDN'T be because they are Cylons - it would have to be SOMETHING ELSE...

That is my point - forget "real" or "hypothetical" - my point is about Logic. One thing is CERTAIN whereas the other is UNCERTAIN - possibilities are LIMITED in one case, but those constraints do not apply in the other.

And thanks for not getting personal. I do understand what is going on in BSG - perhaps better than some - and I won't insult anyone for liking this show (tho I'll insult the writers a whole helluva lot!) because as disappointing as I've found it for the last year or so, I'll still watch it - even if they get to Earth and start riding around in flying motorcycles!

Not a spoiler, just a theory. Gotcha!

In the original Leonardo Da Vinci painting there were 13 people featured... RDM does not say the 12th cylon is not in the BSG last portrait image, there very well could be a lost 13th cylon.... either way you look at it, he didn't directly answer the question... there is no quote or interview where he specifically states that the final cylon is not in the Last Supper pic, I think that anyone that interprets what RDM said, is just falling into the trap that RDM wanted you to fall into.... I sincerely hope that when we discover who the 12th, and possibly 13th cylon is/are, that we will truly be blown away....

Questions? Comments? Theories? Thoughts?

No, think about it. We haven't seen any dogs (daggits) but we did see Boxey. What if they introduce a dog, and it looks completely normal, like any other dog/daggit. Then we find out it's a cylon (and the most intelligent one of all!) -- That would parallel Muffit II from the original series being a cybernetic daggit built to please Boxey. It was essentially a cyclon daggit.

OK. Would you believe Boxey, then?

I think you guys are reading a whole hell of a lot into it that isn't there. The actors just posed in character. No super-secret message.

And as for Last Supper, the one thing that IS established by it is that nobody in that pic is the "final cylon" -- But that leaves a lot of peripheral characters.

THIS. IS. GALACTICA!!!

My speculations on this are that Tigh gets his own in head visitor, or that Ellen Tigh was in fact an aged Six, possibly one of the first Sixs to come on-line whenever it happened.

Or maybe I just imagined I saw that picture, driving me fucking nuts trying to find it.

It makes sense on so many levels. We know Ron wanted us to meet God (played by Dirk Benedict) in the first season, maybe we'll meet him on the way to Earth, after the Angels lead us to him.

I'm fairly certain Anders broke the bond the skinjobs have on the more primitive Cylon models.

We know that there will soon be a Centurion revolt against their skinjob masters, how much you wanna bet Anders gave the order?

And isn't it just cool as fuck that the Centurions are actually just as intelligent and sentient as the skinjobs?

And yes I get the POINT of the hypothetical is an emotional one but the LOGIC of it is tragically bad writing.

Because there is NO WAY Zak could have been a Cylon all along.

This is not like being gay - there is no parallel there. This is about being MANUFACTURED - you can't ask a parent how would they feel if their son had actually been MANUFACTURED and not BORN - the question DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

It's like asking someone how they would feel if Tuesdays were actually purple instead of broken??

It's a NONSENSE hypothetical - regardless of the emotional point that it is trying to make - it's a FAIL!

I would absolutely love it if they made Baltar a cylon, but i just don't think it will happen. I think the quote could also describe Zarek

You used to laugh about everybody that was making out. Now you don't talk so loud. Now you don't seem so proud about having to be scrounging your next meeeeeeaaallll...

(Q) How does it feel?

(A) Like a Rolling Stone

Or maybe it will be "The Bunk".

Damnit my Sunday nights are so empty...

to make love over the internet....

If you wanna join our little loveboat,I like a good threesome...

D

Thats a tough one gotham,good job

love,travis...

you looked pretty satisfied after going down on Ender...

Dont be so cruel to your lovers gotham...

I once thought it was glaringly obvious that Dualla was a Cylon, but that was before the final five concept was even thought up by RDM. She was instrumental on reuniting the fleet and getting them back on the course to Earth, when Adama and the President were at odds. She moved up to be Lee's number 2 (like Tigh and the president's aide) as soon as he took over the Pegasus.

I'm also considering Billy, since we'd all recognize him and he was the president's right hand. When he died, another Cylon filled that crucial spot.

Baltar might seem to be a bit of a let down, at this point. But I could see D'Anna apologizing to him for all the Cylons treating him like crap and almost killing him several times. I don't see why she would apologize to Tigh for anything (even the eye).

Zack is a possibility because it would be such a shock. Perhaps we find out that he is in fact, Tigh's son, which could explain the how.

The idea of it being someone we haven't seen might seem a let down, but probably not if it was Dirk Benedict or someone from the original show.

Good point regarding, Sharon. However, the power to control or influence (depending on which one you believe Anders did) an entire Cylon fleet - raiders and base stars - could be seen as a bigger act than the ability to destroy.

In other words, destroying toasters is one thing (i.e. Sharon), acting like a god-like ruler and giving edicts that they obey is something entirely different IMHO.

Just wait. I bet this is one of the dozens of alternate endings filmed.