[p] i'm kind of hoping that this show had a fleshed out beginning middle and end kind of like Babylon 5, before the show ever started filming..... maybe not quite as planned out as thoroughly as B5, but in that general direction....

Thoughts? Comments? Responses?

"To be clear, Desmond's past was different before ''The Constant.'' Before his time-travel adventure, Desmond never met Faraday at Oxford, never got Penelope's digits. As a consequence of changing the past, Desmond's personal history has been ''course corrected'' by The Powers That Be, beginning from the moment he walked away from Penny's apartment. Lindelof says this interpretation is also correct. But here's a Big Question: since scoring Penelope's phone number, has Course-Corrected Desmond lived his life knowing that on Christmas Eve 2004, he MUST be on a freighter in the South Pacific in order to make a call to Penelope if he wants any chance of having a future with her? Lindelof says this is indeed a matter we should be mulling. Perhaps in the future, Lost will give us an episode that replays Desmond's backstory (getting the boat from Libby; killing Kelvin; meeting the castaways) from the point of view of this knowingness. "

So if there are these time travel corrections after he goes back in time, does that mean Faradays notebook has changed to and didn't say that before? And Faraday is wrong when he says that he should remember him in the future. I'm more confused...

I think if she had come back to the others camp last season, and she actually WAS evil and undercover agent I might have dug it more. Or if Sayid had done his break dancing thing to her neck.

It ends with the guy seeing the plane crash on the island and starting all over again, but with a few differences (dead girlfriend is now on the plane a survivor of the crash with him.)

It better not be the real answer for the show. That would kind of suck.

You still have a problem that Desmond is living his life happily in 1996, and all of a sudden he thinks he is in the future, and then he goes back again to 1996, knowing that in 8 years he will call Penny on a boat.

Something has to change surely? Unless he has convient amnesia too, he would recognise Faraday, let alone Sayid on the island. The writers say things don't change - that is true - Charlie was always going to die. It's just how it happened that may have changed.

The moment that made Jack know he could trust her (her reaction to the exploding sub) revealed that while she has to know she can't trust Ben by now, she really and truly hoped and believed that she was getting off the island on that sub.

And yes, Pizza, we do know that Michael is coming back, and we even know when, but as that is based on a spoiler I don't want to reveal more to people who don't want to know. (Though I think the answer to when he is back is at least referenced in Herc's invisotext today.)

Fucking crazy.

;->

I'm willing to bet that Ben is in the coffin. Jack had already gone cuckoo for cocoa puffs, grown a beard and decided he needed to go back and Ben was one of the last connections or possible ways to get back. None of them would go to Ben's funeral because...well, because he's Ben. Jack may not think of himself as family or friend, but knowing that Ben was right and that they never should have left the island, his death affects Jack deeply. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this season will end with us finding out that Ben is dead (or seeing him die) and that he is in the coffin in TTLG.

That's right, I predict this now and will gladly admit that I was wrong after the finale (or whenever I am proven wrong).

Is it because I'm that sure or because I know something you don't? (Actually, it's because I have no problem admitting to being wrong when it comes to guessing the future of this show, and I don't lose anything.)

If nothing else, it's great to see the choices...especially the last one.

it takes effort to be that boring.

Not the TV show, real survivor skills.

Oh, and last week's episode was absolutely one of my favorites of the series, right up there with "Walkabout" and anything that involves Sayid. Mmmmmm, Sayid.

I don't know how tonight's ep is going to compare to last week, but this season has NOT disappointed at all. Can't wait to see what happens next!

http://tinyurl.com/yurghs

It 's quick quotes of all of James' nicknames for everyone. Quite droll quips.

And why no Ana Lucia necrophilia scene. C'mon, 48 people stuck on an island, you think no one would hit that while it's still warm?

[vomiting sounds - I just sickened myself.]

Charlotte is so unsexy she could do full frontal nudity and no one would complain, or care, or notice.

Meanwhile...Juliet just walked out of the ocean 1/2 nude. Mnnnnn. THAT is a WOMAN.

poom

Yeah, Juliet blows..

perhaps turning on the manual override kicks on the countdown to release the gas, which doesn't make sense to me.

Door opens, Lock walks in, Mile in one piece, grenade on the floor. Miles' pants are wet.

Miles: "You sick bastard, I held that thing for 3 hours. I think I chipped a tooth. Where'd you find a fake grenade?"

Locke: "Huh, must have been a dud"

Or are Charlotte and Daniel playing everybody and set up the thing to be pretending the whole time and to end at 2 seconds on purpose.

I also hope that the only reason Michael may be the spy is that some serious shit happened to him after he got on the island and Ben was his only hope. A pre-concieved deal before hand makes the whole sail away scene and Michael's disbelief that he would be leaving really a plot hole.

Yeah, it's been a great week!

Harper was Old Smokey. that critter shows up just about every time there is a downpour.

While I am on the subject, Daniel and Charlotte may have pulled this stunt to gain the Losties' trust. I believe we have been hoodwinked the entire episode.

Locke, in what you know of Ben, when have you seen him release his last bargaining chip. He was almost willing to get SHOT IN THE FACE instead of revealing the fact that he was an Other.

All in all, found the episode satisfactory. The problem is with so many comparatively awesome episodes recently, this one unfortunately pales by comparison. Still solid, though.

Mark my words, Goodwin's wife was the Smoke Monster.

Mike is the man on the boat, I'm sure. His flashbacks will show him arriving on the freighter.

Anyway, don't believe a word Ben says. He and Widmore are totally in cahoots.

Locke may eventually get the better of Ben but it's not lookin like it's anytime soon as Ben just keeps gettin built up as a master manipulator and Locke still seems uncertain at times.

The big Widmore "reveal" if anything made me doubt my previous conviction he was the economist but we'll see.

Oh my God!

Related to Fucking Saddam. God Damn it all. The mastermind of Sept. 11, and his fucking nephew is running for President.

Well not on my watch. People are going to know. Somebody needs to do something.

And xiphos, I was checking out Juliet's rack before she was Juliet, when she was making out with Angie Jolie in Gia. I think I saw her in something before that, too, but I don't recall because Gia sort of makes you forget other stuff.

Just when you didn't think Ben Linus could get any creepier than he already is, Ben In Love is creepy sick.

Ben Linus is the most interesting character on this show and any ten other shows you can name.

Will Michael Emerson ever work again after this series ends or will bhe be typecast forever by this one brilliant character?

Just when you didn't think Ben Linus could get any creepier than he already is, Ben In Love is creepy sick.

Ben Linus is the most interesting character on this show and any ten other shows you can name.

Will Michael Emerson ever work again after this series ends or will he be typecast forever by this one brilliant character?

And Eli Stone had major developments, New Amsterdam had some surprising revelations and Lipstick Mafia had a nice Kim Raver fuck scene.

In homage to something we see each week on the talkbacks, there were parts of this episode that should have been entitled Juliet’s Cans. Wet ones, big ones, proud ones bouncy ones...nice.

Whispers, rain, out of nowhere there’s Harper. And she’s got a message for Juliet...from Ben...who’s still locked up in what’s now Locke’s basement. And the message is Charlotte and Faraday are heading to the Tempest (oh god...Shakespeare? More reading?). And if they figure out how to deploy the gas, everyone will die. Sounds familiar.

And the next line was interesting. Regarding Ben, he’s “exactly where he wants to be.” This is this first time I’ve heard something like that here where I didn’t think the reference was to a physical location at that moment. Seems to me that was more of a anywhere he wants to or needs to be, he’ll get there. Almost sounds biblical, as in God is everywhere. Not saying Ben’s god, though.

And then whispers, turn your head, Harper is gone. I’ve got to figure out how they do that.

Nice to see Goodwin and Tom again.

Okay, Dan and Charlotte are good actors. When she hit Kate over the head and Dan looked at here and she just asked what was wonderful.

There was a signal. When Goodwin came in with the sandwich Juliet said something about meeting with Harper in 10 minutes. She touched he ear. I don’t know if that was an I’m thinking about you, love you, or what signal, but it was one.

Then there was an Annie reference...I think. Juliet looks just like “her”, and that’s why Ben likes Juliet. I think her is Annie.

Ben will hurt Goodwin. And Goodwin dies. More later.

Ben asking if the rabbit had a number on it was hilarious.

And Ben owns Locke. And Locke giving Ben a dollar to get him started on raising the 3.2 was pretty funny too.

Goodwin says to Juliet on the beach, What’s Ben gonna do? Well there Goodwin, Ben owns people. He always has a plan. And Ben is a jealous...well...god? Of course, probably not a god, but he might think he is if he’s able to be anywhere he wants to be.

For anyone that has doubts or misgivings about a major aspect of this show being religious, listen to Ben. He talks about the virgin Mary on a piece of toast, 5000 people, the miracle of John walking, and asks how many people would come to see that. In Ben’s mind, probably in Johns too, they are in the garden of Eden...and I’m not so sure they aren’t right.

Ben said something very interesting when he pulled out Widmore’s file. “This is everything I know about Widmore. Some of it’s vague, some of it’s guesswork, some of it’s concrete, “ If it’s vague and guesswork, how can you KNOW it?

Speaking of knowing, Locke wants to know the man on the boat, and Ben advises him to sit down. I think I know. More later.

Charlotte and Faraday really are the good guys. They know about Ben killing everyone in the purge, and they are rendering the gas inert. And Charlotte makes reference to everyone on the island dying. So now we can look back to last year’s season finale where Ben said the same thing. He warned Jack not to contact the boat. And now we see Ben knew what he was talking about...because he intended to keep the island a secret even if it meant killing everyone on the island.

And he’s an evil bug eyed bastard. He showed Juliet the dead Goodwin. And he admitted he knew it was going to. That he arranged it. Because he owns Juliet. She’s his. And he’s angry about it all and that she doesn’t understand why without asking.

And now Jack is the new Goodwin.

So what have we learned so far tonight? Ben is jealous. Ben is angry. Ben is vengeful. Ben is where he wants to be. Biblical enough for you?

Oh, and BTW, Hurley being lucky at horseshoes...it ain’t luck.

Last thing comes from the previews for next week. The man on the boat...I think it’s...I mean they said we’d see a face we never expected to see again. Who? Well I think...Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Charlie Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert Spoiler Alert

Looked like it in the previews when you slow it down.

MAN, JULIET HAS SOME NICE CANS!

It seems the producers go out of their way to drive home that point each week.

Juliet on the beach with the Losties...NICE CANS

Juliet in the rain with Jack...NICE CANS

Juliet swimming with Goodwin...OH My NICE CANS

Juliet leaning over to mourn Goodwin...NICE CANS

Each week they out do themselves. It gets better and better. Maybe next week we will get that reanactment of Gia with Juliet and Kate, or Sun since it is a Sun episode.

Juliet's cans should win an award for best supporting duo in a fictionalized drama.

I'd give her my Oscar.

Capt Kirk - that could have bee the cure to cancer, but I'll never read it all without eyes crossing. "less than" P "greater than" for line breaks for the love of God.

I love Lost. Episode was quality TV. Hour well spent and all that. But if I HAD TO rank 'em, this would finish just above Eggtown. 2nd least fav of the year. But still 7/10 in coomparison to all the other shite out there.

I was expecting to see harper die in one of those flashbacks...there was something not right about her when she was talking to Juliet. Is she the smoke monster?

Was that the Orchid Station? There wasn't much there to show it was. Anyone get a screen cap of the dharma logo for it? I thought they all called it the Tempess?

Is Widmore the Economist? Seems to be so.

Isn't it a little too obvious for Michael to be the man on the boat? Maybe it is someone else we aren't expecting.

The freighters have that whole "we're doing this for your own good, but we'll act like were bad and attack you, but in the end we will act like we are good again, and we just dont like to tell you what is going on" thing that the Others seem to do so well. (Thats getting kinda old).

If the freighters are working for Widmore then they must be bad (but are they working for Widmore? Can we trust Ben?)

"See you guys at dinner" best new phrase, I may have to change my screen name.

The whispers were out in full force tonight, anyone know what they were saying? I'm sure someone will slow it down or something.

Remember the line "He's exactly where he wants to be?" That wasn't referring to he's happy to be locked up in a basement. It means if he needs to be somewhere he'll be there.

Also, Kim Raver freaks me out. She's so freakishly skinny that she looks like one of the aliens that made clones in Star Wars.

Compare:

http://tinyurl.com/2up3l6

http://tinyurl.com/22h7m5

Goodwin was hiding the burn because people were being told it was a power station when it housed chemical weapons.

I think the countdown was triggered on accident by the attempted shutdown of the gas. It seem to work this way often on TV or in movies. You have a deadly thing (bomb, chemical weapon, biological weapon) and when someone unauthorized tries to disable it, it immediately turns on the kill everyone mode, which can only be disabled in the final 5 seconds before mass destruction.

As for why there are vats of deadly chemicals, I'm not so sure. Is it there just to kill stuff? Is it for a specific purpose, but used for evil by Ben? Is the Tempest actually the water tretment plant and it was chlorine gas? This part wasn't explained well, but then I don't really know what function most of the stations originally served either. (Wait, the gas is used to kill the polar bears when they escape...or to make the smoke monster.)

If you think about it, Des was in 1996 and 2004 simultaneously. Existing in 2 times more so than time travel. So Ben may be able to do that as well. That's why I say it was really Ben that told Harper.

Earlier this year Ben told Locke he didn't know what the monster was. So I don't think they are working together.

So if I'm correct about Ben actually telling Harper, about Ben being ANYwhere he wants to be, then it may not have been smokie.

What if he suffers from the time sickness like Des and when he goes back he doesn't kill Libby and Ana Lucia. Sure that won't happen but hey just a thought.

Or there are pictures of her from before the purge.

Or Harper was originally part of Alperts group and they knew or knew of Annie.

or...

Then again, Juliet was scanned by smokie, so Harper could be a manifest. But why would smokie want Juliet to pull the trigger. As far as we know, Charlotte nor Dan had been scanned. No redemption was asked for, and that does seem to be a pattern for smokie. Seems to me it's more of a Ben thing since he wanted them not to be there anyway.

So if I'm right, and we both know I can be wrong, then the others can pop in when they want to. I don't know how, but to fathom a guess, it's got something to do with the temple. Maybe they can "see" things from there and get to different places or cause things to happen.

That would be an interesting aspect for the temple, huh.

They did say that he was working at the Tempest and that Ben had him doing it. They mentioned where he worked early in the episode and then on the beach he mentioned that Ben trusted him because he had him working with chemicals that could kill the entire island with the flip of a switch. You may have been distracted by Juliet's breasts in that scene, however.

Julianne flashed backwards only. This may hint that she has no future and never got off the island.

Maybe she even dies, who knows, that could have been her in the coffin that nobody but Jack visited early on.

Oh well, I'm just happy this season is better than last season. I hope they can have more episodes as fun to watch as 'The Constant'.

I also felt that the first episode split was a little forced. As noted in last nights episode, all Charlie said was that it was not Penny's boat, not that there was any malicious intent. They could assume that since the rescuers did lead them to believe Penny was behind their rescue. However, I think a little more debate and reasoning could have cleared up why John's group distrusts the rescuers.

That being said, I absolutely loved the last four episodes. It's been amazing to see this show's plot move (relatively) fast. Little answers and surprises are popping up in each episode. You can really tell things are going to speed up. My only request is that they still stick a lighthearted episode in every once in a while.

I know that Locke has a history of being conned, but enough is enough already. Anybody who's been conned that much would stop trusting everyone and everything altogether. Perhaps he has an ulterior motive for releasing Ben, but I suspect it was just lazy writing.

Also, I have a lot less respect for Ben knowing that his motivations are so base. Turning him in to some sort of stalker, while creepy, makes his character less interesting IMO.

I despise Kate's character. I've always thought she's the most boring fictional character ever devised. But WTF was up with her catching on to Daniel and Charlotte and then turning her back on Charlotte to look in the bag? I thought for sure she was setting Charlotte up, but no, she's that stupid apparently.

Not a great episode, but still worlds better than most of season 3 so I guess I can't complain...much.

as Gnadalf once said teh board is set and the peices are moving, we have found out who one of teh main bad guys is, Mr Charles Windyface.....

my person hope is that Ben sneaks more survivors off teh Island and Desmond get sweet revenge on Charles by killing a great man...Des wins and get to ride the daughter of the man he just killed....god I love this show

Did Harold Perrineau even do anything since his disappearance from LOST?

He is on the freighter, right? You guys probably have already talked about this stuff though way on early in the talkback...

I'm sure Ben hates Jack 'a little bit' more than Goodwin, ha.

IMDB shows that he's listed on episode 8 while on the previous episodes, he's only in the credits.

What about Walt now?

Their exits from the show still have me wondering. And I bet their dog is super massive lonely!!!

I guess I'm starting to grow a little tired of ham-fisted motivations that are inconsistent with previous character development. And I'm also leary of what feel like hasty mini-resolutions while the overall story seems to have stalled. But I'm sure we'll see more trekking through the jungle, more guns pointed at people's heads, and more inexplicable dialog that makes one think we're going somewhere big...but we actually don't.

Don't get me wrong; I've been a fan of the show since Ep-1. But when this show spins its wheels, it really spins its wheels. Sometimes, it just gets too cute.

Was the Tempest the same as the orchid station? I don't see the connection.

Harper was smokie or what ever takes the form of others.

Why would Ben keep the Widmore video in a safe? Just asking.

The Michael on the boat reveal will be one of the least shocking reveals so far. I hope it is someone else, but I doubt it. Everyone knows it will be him.

or did it - other than a few animals we now attribute to the smoke monster, have we actually seen any animals?

Why to people put *SPOILER* tags around their own personal guesswork? SPOILERSPOILER the man on the boat is Homer Simpson SPOILERSPOILER

You're right though, it is horribly cliched, and I made jokes about how the system works earlier because it was so cliched. (we can do paragraph breaks, now I need to learn to do accent marks in talkbacks)

Michael's return in the upcoming episodes have been out in the ABC press releases. It isn't really a spoiler that ABC has been that tight lipped about...

But you're right, it is still spoiler warning worthy info.

hey rb how u keeping mate? and of course all the rest of the room 23 alumni..

I love teh way Lost can do a killer episode like last weeks and then not even touch on it this episode..just like real life, there is mad shit happening to people lives all around us and were non the wiser whats happending..

As for the Draper reference, Node knows what I'm talking about.

LOST has been one hell of a ride -- but I have enjoyed it!

Kinda the same last night with Winmore, I was half expecting it from talking in these forum's and other internet sites, so it wasnt as big of a reveal to me....

Maybe/probably not right, but still an interesting thought.

straight after next weeks lost im hitting the pub and will be in it, only to return home and shower and sleep, for the following 3 days...it will be emotional my friend

Locke made the decision to release Ben while watching the tape. The only off-screen part was after Ben told him to sit down and then told him about the man on the boat. They wanted to save that reveal for the next episode, and it didn't have a direct impact on this one. It didn't matter what Ben said about the guy. He could have said, his name is Bob and he is from Chicago and Locke would still have released him because he belives that he and Ben want the same thing. Locke is being played by Ben because Ben knows him better than anyone else. He knows everything there is to know about Locke, and he understands the position that Locke is in because he's been there himself. Locke has been searching for guidance the entire time on the island. Sure, he can hunt and track, but he has no clue what the big picture is. He thought the hatch was the answer, but then lost his faith and destroyed it. He thought Jacob and taller ghost Walt would guide him, but he can't find the cabin again. Without something to guide him, he is desperately reaching out to anything and anyone and the only one available who can help him is Ben. He may wonder if Ben has his own plan, but Ben is the master manipulator who, in his own words, controls someone by "finding out what he's emotionally invested in and using it against him." Ben has used Jack, Locke, Sawyer, every single one of the Others, Michael and in the future, will use Sayid by doing exactly that. Locke is emotionally invested in Locke. He wants to feel special and to have people believe in him. Ben gave him that and the potential to lead, so he took it. It's no coincidence that in The Brig Ben used Locke's own words and said, "Don't tell me what I can't do, John."

I think I need to work on being succinct.

If you don't want to read it, Netflix it or even Forbidden Planet.

I don't think it will be an adaptation of The Tempest in the end, but there's no way around those parallels. I spend every episode re-evaluating who is who. Prospero is Ben. Alex is Miranda. Rousseua is Sycorax. Jacob is Settebos. Caliban is Locke, or Ethan...Ariel is Cerberus/Smokezilla... pretty solid on that.

Just sayin.

Hmmm, I don't know. I'd say the odds are heavily against it. But if I start singing lines from "All Along the Watchtower", you'll know my programming has finally kicked in.

I'd love to see someone on Lost start singing All Along the Watchtower, just to screw with our heads. They've already had someone sing at least once on the show (Sawyer's version of a Bob Marley song...Redemption's Song?).

What if Ben has been working for years to use the island's unique abilities to change the future?

We know that Desmond can take a few "quantum leaps." During these leaps, he met a sinister woman who told him that he cannot change the future. What is she is part of some organization (one of several) that have discovered the unique ability of the island to cross TIME/SPACE?

The Black Rock. DHARMA. Hanso. Whidmore. Are these simply groups that either worked alone (or as a group) in order to find and use the island's power to rule the world? In the first ARG, we learned about the Valenzetti Equation -- a mathematical equation that could predict the end of the world. DHARMA and HANSO, of course, were linked to this equation. Where they planning a mass holocaust in order to change the variables of the equation, and somehow cause THE GREATER GOOD? Is the work of the "Others" somehow tied to a group of people that are trying to prevent the holocaust? Perhaps they feel that the future can be changed, and that there is another way (rather than mass extermination)?

We know that the island effects the birth of babies. Is it possible that Ben desperately wants this "fixed" in case future generations will need to exist which will stop the exploitation of the island's power and future annialation and holocaust? Is this why Ben and good ol' Sayid (the human lie detector) will try desperately to KILL OFF certain members of society? Is this why Jack will desperately want to return to the island?

Jack shouldn't trust Juliet. Mostly true. She lies, admits to it, then lies again and admits to that. She is willing to do anything to get what she wants (off the island and to keep her sister and niece safe). However, Jack has to fix broken women. Jack trusts Juliet because she needs someone to help her. The more independence Kate has shown, the less Jack wants/needs her.

You are right that they shouldn't trust these people, but those are character flaws not writing flaws.

That's how I am used to seeing the communal pen for checklists and whatnot.

Whoever just made me have a Cyndi Lauper song stick in my head: I hate you.

Ever since Charlotte showed up I've been seeing Narnian connections all over.

Half-assed prediction: Charlotte will have something to do with The Door Station (the doorway guarded by Others, but which Sayid discovered to be a whole lotta dirt wall)and said Door will be more than it appeared to be last time we saw it.

Chaaalie MUST BE DEAD, because Claire IS MIIIIIIINE!

2. Juliet needs some construction work on the hippage and butt. Great body, little waist, and those WONDERFUL TOYS. But I love a tiny hiney. And she wore shorts and not a bikini bottom for a reason. She has pushed out a kid, cutting her some slack and God knows she is probably muscular, but the pooper is just not as great as the rest.

3. Chicks look better in make-up. OK, no big revelation there, but it really impresses on me that the PTBs are really preventing the LOST women from any touch ups...Hey, many suitcases, lipstick and eyeliner is available I'm sure. Everyday I see women go to the gym at 6am, fully "made-up". Vanity takes many forms. You'd think 1 or 2 of them would feel (heard this from some chick once) "NAKED" without some make-up on. Emilie deRavin needs ZERO make-up to look gorgous...God those baby blues melt me. But when she went goth?!?!?!? That little eyeliner ...can you imagine made up for a Fri night out? Kate in Court looked so beautiful. Juliet's appearance at the start of tonights ep....the "talk" with Harper. She looked wonderful - and there are scenes (outdoor usually) where her blue eyes are also mezmerizing (Yeah, I'm an eyes guy). All of out LOSTie gals are naturally beautiful (I'm CERTAIN a condition of employment). From Emilie - Michelle R., we have lots of beauty. Ana-Lucia's beauty was in her perfect, hard body IMO. Cindy Watros, again, GREAT body...just AVOID HER MUGSHOT!!!! If that is what she looks like morning after, well, there are jokes about gnawing one's limb off and it is THAT bad. I prefer Libby=Desmond boat meeting. Cutie pie. I digress...

3. Juliet's cans are a work of art. Natural art. To all of you who think she is unattractive - check out the TVGuide photo shoot online. Tight black/red/other dresses and made-up like a whore (not quite - just like saying that). Channeling Gob from Arrested Development.

Last week we see people needing other people. Tonight we see what happens when you go from 'NEED' to 'WANT'. BennyBoy WANTS in a bad way. And if he can't have her...no one will.

4. I love BitTorrent. Very cool community and you can feel like you are contributing w/out breaking the law (sometimes).

5. I love you guys on this TB. I used to be "lookie, but no touchie", but this season I am driving you all nuts with my posts. My normal co-workers sneak peaks at porn or Funny or Die - I HAVE to look at what you guys are saying on the LOST post.

5. Back to Ep, I guess "primary objective" was to neutrilize the doomsday gas facility? Maybe not primary, but high on their list I presume due to the outfits and making SURE they had them when they bailed from the chopper. What else is on their agenda???? We know of 3 now...

1. Danny's time dilation rocket experiment

2. Monitor Dan's memory with card memorization exercises (which we know now was a result of becoming unstuck in time).

3. Disable/Neutralize the poison gas at "The Tempest".

4. ???????????????

Darlton swore NO PARADOXES!!! I believe them. But subtle changes to the future are hardly paradoxes. A paradox would be - after meeting Des now in 1996, danny decides NOT to go on the island mission. Hell, his meeting with Des is probably why he accepted the mission (Des brought up the island). But when Dan goes to check his notebook at the end of The Constant and I contend those words (Desmond Hume is my constant) were not in there earlier, but were in there now when he needed them most. As a result of sending Des to Danny's 1996 self, subtle (but impactful) changes were made. He finished his calculations a little sooner since Des gave him the numbers. His meeting gave him the impetus to jot in journal to remind his future self, he would need Des as a constant. What other changes will we see? 42 Eps to find out! Damn I love this show.

Is it Thursday yet? Any arguements about the O-6 END next week. That was one spoiler I wished I had avoided - it has made my posting life miserable. Which leads me to end with this question...

If you could gain access to ONE spoiler regarding the LOST mytharc - what would it be?

Oh wait, that was weird, I think I just channeled some redneck...

Also explains why he would make off with Alex as a baby. Probably weepy over what he lost and saw a baby and swooshed her away. Then Juliet appears, making it possible for him to complete the family he was supposed to have.

One thing I dont get though - this thing with the journal - if the ship crashed on the island, are we supposed to assume that the mate got OFF the island? And kept a journal of his adventures? Cos otherwise Widmore has just bought himself a journal where some sailor goes "April 15th: Sat drinkin grog in the Old Spit tavern with some busty wenches when I noticed me shipmates had all set sail without me. Ungrateful curs, I hope they crash on some mysterious island"

And that would just be a waste of money

TEAM CLAIRE!!

The one with out Lostie, with Army/Police, and handcuffs??

And obviously very distraught.

Did she just kill someone? Or witness a death? I think we have an answer to the casualty. What say you?

I feel like such a Lostcunt with all my TBing.

My typos make me feel like such a typecunt.

Jack can act like such a controlcunt sometimes.

Locke's so gullible, what a concunt!

I believe that will suffice for now.

"...IT was GOOD to hear the WHISPERS again!! I will DECIPHER them later using my Spoon!!..."

By the way, I thought the episode wasn't too bad, with the exception of the stupid doomsday clock counting down to 0. But then I'm a Juliet fan too. I was glad to see some explanation as to why she feels so indebted to doing what Ben says - he's definitely got her brainwashed/intimidated into doing his bidding.

I think this will come into play in Ep. 8...this might be the first step in Michael's recruitment, Michael gets videotape of Widmore (or Tom tapes it). Then when ben finds out about this and Widmore's freighter expedition, Ben asks Michael to get on the boat.

It actually felt very Lucas Star Wars Prequelish.

Why even have a Trade Federation? Why Sifo Dyas? Why not follow the Sparti Cloning Cylinder plot already developed by Zhan and go to Komino instead?

It was a mess of an episode and really leaves me feeling shakey about bringing Michael back if they are going to just have him be a Ben Spy.

Considering four of them are JACK, HURLEY, KATE, and SAYID...and next week, the JIN and SUN episode promises to reveal "the rest of the Oceanic 6"...

I don't need crazy action in every episode. My favorite episodes are the character centered episodes from Season One. In those episodes, there aren't too many explosions. In "White Rabbit", they run out of drinking water. Wow! What crazy action! Jack sees his dead father. He tries to save a drowning woman. Claire collapses. That's it. No time traveling, hostage negotations, nothing. What I'm saying is there is a way to create tension/suspense without much action. They made the issue with the water into this very big "action" piece where the characters turning on each other and accusing each other. It was an interesting "whodunnit." This last episode did not have supense or tension for me. I cared for Juliet's journey not at all. In "White Rabbit", it was about Jack dealing with his father's death and his guilt over it. It was very moving. It ended with the culprit being Claire (nice reversal of expectation) and Jack stepping into his leadership role. Just because some of you guys feel you are being personally attacked/insecure when someone doesn't like an episode, doesn't negate their opinion. You can defend it all you want, but I'm sick of people going "stop whining" or STFU.

Furthermore, the idea that I have to accept this episode because it is an "exposition" episode. My definition of exposition is the art of gracefully revealing backstory. And backstory is any information necessary to the plot. So tonight's exposition was the flashback. Everything on the island was plot. In my opinion, the exposition was not gracefully revealed. It was not compelling to me. If it was for you, great. The only point of interest for me was Ben, both in the flashback/present day. The reveal of Widmore didn't seem earned. I would have liked to see Locke struggle strongly with Ben and finally achieve the reward (which in this case is the videotape).

We're all entitled to an opinion.

I'm kind of hoping Lost actually DOES go down this pirate route I'm imagining in my head. They missed a trick by killing eyepatch boy. Jack needs to lose an eye and start saying Arrrr in my opinion

What do you want people?? Here's teh way it will pan out, someone will say a sentence of show it in a flash, or see it for themselves and thats it answered...it wont take an hour of exposition to answer a question but a sentence....Ben threw the tape in talked over it and bam there is our bad guy trying to find the Island and who owns the freighter...

when we find out who Jacob is we will see him first of all, tehn he will over the course of teh show tell us who he is in little bits, or he will have exposition for a minute and well know all about him...I dont know what people are moaning about answers for on this and other talkbacks and in the pub etc....

the man in the boat will be revealed and thats that one done in an instane, I think we are studying it too hard and setting up great scenario's in our heads so when they do give us a simple answer we feel let down a bit...just enjoy the ride folks..

"Harper could very well be the ‘Other woman’. Of course, so could Juliet. Hell, Ben could be the Other woman this episode - the way he sashayed up that hill (and ran to get the ham out of the oven) had me questioning a few things"

Don't you have something better to complain about? Or is this typical of all liberals? When I hear Obama, all that I hear are negative but eloquent speeches that COMPLAIN about everything!

As far as my theories on LOST, I do think that there is some interesting twist in the overall story. Perhaps the Others really do think that they are the "good guys" because they are using evil means to achieve "the greater good" (which, ironically, was the name of a Season 1 episode). Just a thought...

Perhaps we could learn just HOW and WHY the ship ended on the island. Perhaps it wasn't being used as a slave ship on its journey to the island, but that the captives were those who contracted the "sickness" (like Desmond and Milowski)?

Good idea, bro!

This episode should be titled 'Ben Linus is a creepy little man-boy, fixated on Nordic-type chicks'.

Also, who else thinks his 'ham' was one of the boars from the jungle? Raise yer hands if yer sure. And that was a damned lie about the Orchid station!!! They were at the 'Tempest' station. Dammit! Good episode, but 'The Constant' would be a tough act to follow, no doubt about that.

But, I think you should mosey on over to a political thread and bray ignorance over there for a bit. And, if you're black, I'm a nine foot tall redheaded Chinese man from Alberta, Canada. Internet don't mean invisible, chucklenuts, and you don't seem black other than the text on the screen. My money says you're as black as Juliet. Not that it matters, nor do you.

On the other hand, you're right; a story about the Black Rock WOULD be kick-awesome. Good one man. Leave the politics out of this please...Barack Obama might just be the next president...and who knows, maybe he and his Iranian cohorts will allow you and your daughters to merely be pleasure slaves!

Seriously dude, here's a quote for guys like you: "You're gonna miss everything cool, and die angry, you stupid douche-nozzle."

really enjoyed it...that hatch will be visited again i'm sure, and not just in a Ben flashback...

Juliett would def get it..and get it hard..

I'm liking Farraday more and more every episode, I think he's teh best of the new additions, but all of them have been strong..great season so far..

I love DannyBoy.

My biggest beef about this Ep...

So as I see it - Dan and CS risked loosing the gas and killing everyone (they had the HazMat suits - they were safe) so that they could save everyone from the POSSIBILITY Ben would use the gas to kill everyone. I don't know about you, but if I'm a 815er, I'm pretty pissed. Dan was rolling the dice he could stop it once it got rolling...2 seconds? And Ben couldn't have released it...you didn't see him prepping his gas mask, did you? No, this was a BIG chance our freighties took, with no risk to themselves (sorry Miles). Until Juliet pulled their masks off that is! THAT provided some encouragement. So I guess that the end (having Juliet and Jack being ok with what they did) was slighly poor writing. A rarity to be sure.

Maybe have Dan and CS know of a plan or a failsafe that could trigger the gas at any time? Or just explain they screwed up and now they are trying to stop it. Like some others have posted, it really seemed like a B-Team put this story together. I know it was in the can, but could the story have been rushed because of the impending strike? Y'know - studio pushing to get 1/2 a season in the can before stuff shuts down. "OK writers - you need to be done with 7 and 8 by said date so we can start filming..." My guess, anyway. These guys are too good for obvious plot holes. Maybe 6 & 8 were smooth going, but they had to rush to break 7. Shouldn't be any issues with 9-13 (unless the SAG shit starts affecting stuff). Jeez.

All that being said - still better TV than anything else out there right now (BSG in April, right?). Still a 7/10 ep.

Thanks BigE. You guys make this TB so addictive. What a great suppliment to a great show.

And with that - we will get our Black Rock flashback. Of that I'm sure. Dick the Pirate. Arrrrrghhh!

SPOILER, but only if you haven't really been reading the credits every week

...everyone pretty much knows that it's Michael. That's why they say "how" (and probably "why") is more important.

I am so fucking tired of hearing a bunch of libtards stereotype African Americans as a group of mindless Obamatose slaves of the Democratic Party. Some of us actually have brains -- and we vote our conscience. The Democratic Party has NEVER represented African Americans fairly. They were the party of slavery, Jim Crowe and segregation. They only changed their colors when they realized that they needed some more votes -- so they tossed a few bones (usually promises of welfare and "leadership" for a few selected imbeciles) in exchange for a few votes.

There is nothing that would incite me to vote for either Barack Hussein Obama or Hillary Clinton. But that isn't what this thread is about. Yet someone somewhere will make an anti-Bush or anti-Christian or anti-Republican comment, and no one will blink. If a person has the same opinion directed at the terribly overrated, inexperienced and unqualified Barack Obama -- then they even question my actual race.

Get a life, little minded liberal! You can't believe all of those talking points that are fed to you by the DemocRATic Party leaders in San Fran. They want you to believe their nonsense and forget to scrutinize the eloquent-sounding (yet substanceless) rhetoric of the ultra-liberal less-than-one-term-in-Congress Obama. He is the true "Uncle Tom." But if you want to keep sucking his dick as the media continues humping his leg like a dog in heat, by all means -- continue.

But don't criticize me for standing up for what I believe in. Don't worry, you will have scores of other politically mindless geeks who will show their bigotry by mocking anyone who doesn't agree with their leftist and usually uneducated social views.

But how important will he be to the overall story? We already know that he makes it off the island. We know that he employs Sayid in the future. But why did he suddenly become a central figure to the LOST mythology?

Did he replace another character -- sort of like combining his "Henry Gale" character with that of another one named "Ben?" We already know that the original "Jack" was supposed to die in the pilot episode, but the ABC execs forced them to keep him. So they rewrote the character of KATE, who was supposed to be the "hero" into Jack Shepherd.

The overall story of LOST was created with a beginning, a middle and an end in mind. So how important a role will Benjamin Linus play in that story?

My guess: Ben Linus is the man in the coffin that was featured in last year's finale (Through the Looking Glass). He will die at the end of the season, but (of course) in a flashforward. Next season, he will play only a guest star role in the "real time" episodes that are filmed off the island (since we already know that this season will conclude with the Oceanic 6 being rescued).

BTW, do you think that Miles will get the opportunity to walk to the Black Rock? It might give him a headache. Still, I am hoping that he gets the opportunity to visit the LOSTie beach, and visit the graves of Shannon, Boone, Ana Lucia, Libby, and Mr. Eko. It might be quite a LOST education.

And it might also be nice for ol' Miles to visit the caves and "talk" to "Adam and Eve." It would be funny if, afterwards, he says something to the effect that their names are "Jack and Kate."

With regard to the coffin. Yes the funeral is treated with contempt by Kate at least and probably the other oceanic six except Jack. He attends. BUT there is one other person who betrayed them all remember and he is going to be playing a rather large part soon so my money is still on him.

Adam and Eve sounds more like a job for Naomi likewise the Black Rock. Miles seems to me to be targetted squarely at Jacob and maybe disproving the visions of the dead like Ben's mum and Jack's dad are actually spirits. THough Miles and Naomi could investigate the pit of Dharma dead.

Oh and Colin Powell didn't run Obama did. So unless you think the Presidency is worth very little or is a meaningless token job the Dems seem to be putting there money where their mouths are in regards to "representing Africa Americans fairly.". But don't worry since some think Romney might actually become McCains choice for VEEP we have monthas of quality Republican campaigning for minorities to look forward too.

Miles can prove the visions are not Ben's Mother, Jack's Dad, or even Charley. Well there is a chance they are their spirits I spose but that would be one cheesy black mark against LOST if they were. I think some kind of mindscanning trickery Ol Smokey seemed adept at would explain their appearance, resemblance and manipulation of people rather than just plain spooks or Ghosts.

Or is Vincent actually Scooby Doo ?? Hmmmm..... then who is Shaggy ????

A visit by Miles to the DHARMA pit might very well be the reason that Miles is present on the island. Perhaps he needs to ask a few question? Or perhaps, like you said, Miles is just there to distinguish between "real" ghosts and "ghost imposters" (ala Christian shepherd, Ben's mom or Yemi the priest). Anyway, good thoughts.

I digress - just enjoy the board my friend. We have so many theories and ideas to flame each other about in the land of LOST...why waste good name calling like "douche nozzle" on politics.

Who originated "douche nozzle" btw? I need to buy that guy a beer.

Just downloaded Y:The Last Man to preview before I go out and buy my first comic book. Heard about it...guy in the Buffy comic thread recommended it. I remember hearing that title bounced around the LOST threads. Anyone remember what it was in regards to?

Angel fans:

I am NOT a comic book guy, though I will read anything entertaining. I just never got into it as a kid. BUT MAN!! The Angel: After the Fall is available for download and I highly recommend it (as long as you go out and buy it later so they keep makin' em!). It continues the story into season 6 beautifully (and brings back Wes in a GREAT way) and has me as sucked in as the series once did. Great read and the writing has the characters and tone down perfectly.

Just a suggestion for the coming LOST intermission.

Lostie.

FF.

suitcase.

crying.

WTF???

Locke: "Who is your man on the boat?"

Ben: "Don't you know, John? It's your father."

poom...LOST

Unfortunately, I don't think that the anti-Bush crowd would ever take this good advice.

She is hotter during September football games - in short shorts and tank tops.

SHake it off

The MisFit pic may be just that Max. I can't figure where he could have pulled that from - he doesn't put alot of effort into that stuff. And actually, according to Wiki - he HAS been dead on on a couple of major spoilers. If its a real LOST pic - I just don't have any clue what it could mean.

You mouthbreathing douchenozzle.

Bliss

Y:The Last man - complete series:

http://tinyurl.com/ypszb4

just extract the file with WinRar. Any ? - Feel free to ask. If you don't use Bit Torrent..you need to start.. J/K

Email me, I'll attach them to an email volume by volume for you if need be.

ehansen@nc.rr.com

Any more VALIS=LOST stuff? You'll have to write up a summary of some of the tie ins when you are done.

That's asking alot with your work schedule. I'm such analdripping douchenozzle.

'sigh' Just beautiful.

I will email you the answer so as not to aggrivate the natives.

Yo Xiphos!

Cold and windy. Like my last date. TarHoles just beat Duke. I hate Duke. It was excellent. I'm a Wisconsin native and still recovering from Lord Favre retiring. In mourning until the draft I'm afraid.

Dad is on suicide watch. He is afraid the time it took from Starr to Favre...he'll be dead by the time we find another QB. God that's morbid...but he may be right. Aaron Rodgers looked good against Dallas, but who knows

PLEASE GOD!!!!...Back to LOST

THANKS MAX! That was it. Didn't he get credit for some of The Constant? Namaste BigE

We have yet to see any hint of that in flashback. Or do juliet and Ethan have some kind of military training waaay back in their past ?

I know it seems minor but the others are by and large a formidable fighting force so how did this occur ?

BTW one of my favourite moments of season 3 was Charlie telling the 2 others in the looking Glass he would Die when it flooded, as the line was delivered as masterfully creepy as any line by Ben and was a real turning point as it was finally the others turn to be freaked out by the Losties.

Good to see Tom and Goodwin back...Goodwin's a real Casanova! But chemical burns? Hmmmm...Yea, yea...Juliette has nice tits...blah blah blah.

Another good shot of the plane breaking into pieces...love those new special effects shots.

Harper, jilted smoke monster?...Yes...but not how you think. Harper wasn't so much unhappy about the Goodwin/Juliette hook up...as much as she is jealous that Ben cares more for Juliette than her. Harper wanted some Benjiman love...but his heart was with Juliette...cuz she looks like "her", and THAT pisses her off. I think it will be revealed Harper was actually HAPPY when Ana Lucia kebobbed 'ol Goodwin.

Widmore! Charles. Goddamn. Widmore. Ok folks...you buyin this "He's the bad guy" bullshit Ben is puttin' off on Locke? Do you really believe ANYTHING Ben says? If you do...you're dumber than Locke. Widmore doesn't know "where the island is"? Bullshit..IF, indeed, that actually IS his freighter...he sure has a good GUESS where the island is....HIS team is ON the island. And he must know more about what's ON the island if he gave Dan and Charlotte ("I have work to do") gas masks and instructions to DISABLE the gas distribution device at the Tempest.

He knows that's Ben's first line of defense...In case of emergency:

1). Send ALL his people to the "temple"...where they can don the appropriate life saving, gas resistant masks and chemical suits.

2). Send a member of his team (Alpert?) to the Tempest to activate the gas system...giving him a specific time so everyone can be safe....and in Ben's case...this means BACK in his comfy Other's barracks home...you know the one...with the secret panic room full of biohazard suits that Sayid almost discovered a few eps. back.

You see...when Ben said his classic "See you at dinner, guys"...we was laughing...because he thought Sawyer & Hurley (and everyone else) would be DEAD from gas exposure by dinner time. THAT makes that line even MORE creepy, if that's possible. Again...he manipulated Locke into giving him just what he wanted. Ben knew EXACTLY when the gas was going to be deployed...so he "played prisioner" just long enough (he was just where "he wanted to be") to drop his "final bargaining chip" on Locke...to allow him safe refuge in his hidden room in his house. So where am I going with this?

Oh...yeah... Charles. Goddamn. Widmore. He's not the bad guy kids. He is NOT a nice man...but he's NOT the big baddy. The man we saw him roughing up on the Red Sox tape...one of Ben's men...and he tortured him to get ALL the info on Ben's "security devices" on the island...which is how they knew about The Tempest and where to find it.

Widmore is NOT out to make a profit on the island...he's out to take it back from Ben's evil reigns.

Ben is the "big baddy" of LOST, I'll gaurantee it...and I think it will be a Hans Gruber from "Die Hard" type situation...Remember Hans spent that entire movie pretending to be an international terrorist...only to be revealed as a "common theif". Ben = Hans, IMO.

So...where will Ben be left as he's sitting in his little isolation chamber in his house...waiting for the gas to deploy...only...it doesn't. Will he still have a plan, then?

Or...what if it's NOT an isolation chamber...but an underground tunnel to the Temple?...and he will be nowhere to be found at dinner time? We'll see.

Mike is NOT his man on the boat...Mike may be ON the boat...but he's NOT Ben's man...he's a red herring.

Ok...I've bored ya'll long enuff....but I thought it was a pretty good episode overall. Some good theories in this thread...I'll have to read thru more thoroghly tomorrow...But right now I gotta crash...Daylight Savings Time sucks ass!

In the end. I don't think we are going to get a Whedonesque type formula (ie. big bad gets built up, defeated, plot twist, and then the REAL BIG BIG bad is revealed). All the characters are in need of redemption. All of them do things that in their own mind, is the "right" thing to do. Hell, even Michael justified shooting Ana in cold blood (Libby accidentally)and turning over four friends (albeit, people he only knew 10 weeks) for his son. If faced with those circumstances...could you do the same thing for your child? So while he could be a "bad guy", it's ambiguous and for the audience to judge.

Ben has his reasons as well. Widmore too. Abaddon.

I don't think anyone will be set up to be a devil worshipping, puppy eating, pedophile, Nazi (which would make him a pretty "bad guy"). In the end, I think they will all be revealed to have motives you could relate to and maybe agree with. It will make for wonderful discussion on these boards on who should win. Or if any of them should.

Jack looks like he will win at first - but then look what he is like a year and 1/2 later( bad beard and worse habit). Obviously his "victory" was not. Ben was still around as well pulling strings. DId he win or is he winning? Seems like it - Sayid bought into his end game. Michael may have too since he is on the boat. Widmore? Hell - maybe he knows so much he is actually trying to protect Des by being an ass and we find out later all he is doing is to protect his daughter.

Anyway - LOST seems to be a story of redemption, not necessarily good vs the big bad. They are all good and all bad and all in between just trying to find a way to be comfortable in their own skin.

SMALL SPOILER ALERT. BRODY - SMALL SPOILER TO ARGUE YOUR SECOND POINT....DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO STAY VIRGINAL.................... In ep8, we know there is a Friendly sighting with Michael in NY, an arguement that does not go well. But it appears Tom is "convincing" Mike to work a job for Ben(the contents of their convo is not known, so this is the guessing part). Ep8 is a flash back to answer what Mike was doing during the time he left the island to the time he winds up as Ben's man on the boat. All this comes from an extremely accurate source. Hope that didn't spoil you too much if you read it. We can agree to disagree and not give each other a Ben beating, right?

END SPOILER

Loved teh Dark Tower. The 1st four (which I have in a box set) was unbelievable. I bought the last 3 as oversized, illustrated books. I was hungry for the story to continue so I enjoyed it - but the tone was different. The lightsabers and Harry potter stuff was a bit goofy. Including his King's own story (the van hitting him)as a part of the story...well, it was creative, I'll say that. I was most upset by Oy's fate believe it or not. This from a dog lover and Lab owner though. The ending...it was good. Satisfying and not, all at once. I like the idea of the FINAL fate of our sidekicks though...a happy ending (Especially the part about them adopting a dog that they swear could talk sometimes). I hope JJ does it right...it would have to be done in a mini-series, no? Too much story for a movie trilogy methinks.

I was able to download it as a FLV file - played in RealPlayer easily enough as a keeper. Also worked in Nero Showtime - which I watch all my stuff in because of the features and the clarity and the way I can ease I can tweak my vids.

File is only 90MB, quick download - about 20 minutes - but poor quality. So...there it is.

Thanx 4 introducing me to the site - good stuff. If I ever miss something I just wanna watch real quick - it'll be my go to.

I just watched an old Angel Ep called Forgiven that mentioned in another TB as one of my favorite WTF moments on TV.

http://www.sidereel.com

Grew up in Chapel Hill, living in Raleigh now. Watching UNC dook is my favorite thing...unless...then it's my least favorite.

As for LOST being about "redemption"...ok...Shannon was redeemed? Boone was redeemed? Arzt was redeemed? Gary Troup was redeemed? The Marshall was redeemed? The faceless tailies who died the first night were redeemed? Ana Lucia was redeemed? Libby was redeemed? Tom was redeemed? Pickett was redeemed? Eko was redeemed?

Or is LOST just about the charaters we CARE about's redemption? Seems pretty arbitrary to me. One thing I DO know is Michael committed 3 heinous, selfish acts...murdering Ana & Libby in cold blood...then leading his friends into a trap. I realize Mike had a justifiable reason for doing all this...the love of his son and a desire to get him back...but that does not excuse what he did to get to that result...and he will pay the ultimate price for it.

Michael will NOT be redeemed. He will say "hello" to Ana Lucia...in hell. Transcript from "3 Minutes":

MICHAEL: I guess you believe in hell, then.

EKO [helping Michael clean the blood]: For a brief time I served in a small parish in England. Every Sunday after Mass, I would see a young boy waiting in the back of the church. And then one day, the boy confessed to me that he had beaten his dog to death with a shovel. He said that the dog had bitten his baby sister on the cheek; and he needed to protect her. And he wanted to know whether he would go to hell for this. I told him that God would understand -- that he would be forgiven, as long as he was sorry. But the boy did not care about forgiveness. He was only afraid that if he did go to hell -- that dog would be there waiting for him.

Ana Lucia will be waiting, Ed.

For whatever reason, everyone on the island has done something and is in NEED of redemption in some sort. Some may not want it. Some will find it in their own way - like Eko did when he faced down who he at first thought was Yemi - by saying basically, "ya know, now that I think of it - I'm cool. I don't regret what I did to survive." His redemption was just coming to terms with his past. That wasn't good enough for 'ole smokie, though. Michael said - Fuck redemption...my son is more important than that and saving him is worth every heinous act I do (many who have kids probably admit they COULD do what he did to save their child)

Maybe redemption is the wrong word. Maybe just peace...ok with being their own skin is closer to it. But they try hard (the writers) to not make this about good vs Evil. Our "good" heroes have some serious issues and are sometimes a bit ambiguous about how "good" they are. Ben is supposed to be a bad guy in many ways - yet you can see where, in the end - what he does may be done for the greater good (maybe). Sawyer can act like a selfish bad guy, then turn around and do something heroic and shows love for Kate.

Soo - we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. And there is every possibility you'll be right. More likely, we both will be a little right and alot wrong about most of out theories. At least I hope so - I want to be fooled. Keiser Sose!

Kind of a spoiler but really more of a rumour. Just in case............ spoiler....................... ......spoiler................. .spoiler...................spo iler.......................... spoiler........

Word had it from a guy that worked as an extra in NY while they were filming Michael's Ep8. They bought his buddy's green something or other car. They then wrecked it. He was on the set and saw a scene where Michael steps into the car, pins a note on himself, then wrecks the car as an attempt at suicide. He survives. Maybe the recruitment to the boat duty then follows - I'm not sure how it unfolds. But if they decide to work in the paper clipping now that Lost fans deciphered the whole thing - he may make a second attempt at suicide in a flash forward (after the boat), and as Mr Lantham. hangs himself from the rafters. Remember - he leaves a son. So...Michael is then in the coffin at Hoffs-Drawler. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> END SPOILER....................... ..............End Spoiler

If you read that Chief - Michael has DEFINATELY failed at redemption and gives up. One way ticket to hell.

A nice comment by a reader...

Tom Tomorrow That's what I dig about you man -- you don't let your progressive and hip nature keep you from unearthing stodgy, worn-out stereotypes in your quest to indoctrinate and polarize a whole new generation of ideology-driven lemmings... you go, boy!

Now THAT was funny.

I just think Michael got the total "shaft" on the deal he cut with Ben...that he did indeed win his freedom off the island...but NOT Walt's...(although, Walt may have made it back to the states, but is still being held by Ben's men there). Walt was too precious a find to ever give up that easy.

It's completely possible Michael may STILL be doing Ben's bidding in the future...all to get his son back...yet again! But as many of us fans...and I'm sure some of the writers...are tiring of this one dimensional scenario they've set up for Michael. Something has GOTTA give...and I think it leads Mike to his "peace" at Hoffs-Drawler.

I think we finally saw the TRUE Ben in 'The Other Woman'...With his "You're MINE!" line to Juliette...spoken like a spoiled 10 year old brat. With all his posturing, and grandious behavior...I think we'll find Ben's motivations to be rather basic...(ala Hans Gruber in 'Die Hard')...So far, everything that has come out of his mouth is a lie...or a manipulation to get what he wants...He is using his "valuable" position on the island to his advantage...but I think he may just be using the island as the perfect "hide out" and he is able to do nefarious things on the outside world.

It would explain the muliple passports...and his sending Sayid out to kill people on "lists". Miles insistence that he can come up with exactly $3.2 million. I think Ben robbed Widmore of something valuable...and Widmore is looking to get back at him.

Too simple? Perhaps...but I think Hanso will step into the picture eventually...and put BOTH Ben & Widmore in their places. Unless Jack gets to them first.

Just out of cutiosity - did you read the spoiler? If you did - does this guy sound legit...does something like that "feel" like LOST?

Oh...and think there's only ONE true attempt at suicide...the second one is murder....made to LOOK like a suicide.

Here's some nuggets from "Eggtown" that may help us to ponder Mile's & Ben's connection:

KATE: You got one minute. Go.

MILES: How about some privacy?

KATE: Fifty-five seconds!

MILES: (to Ben) Do you know who I am?

BEN: Yes.

MILES: Do you know who I work for?

BEN: Yes.

MILES: Then you know he's put a lot of time and energy into finding you. So now I've found you. And I can tell him exactly where you are. Or I can lie, and tell him you were already dead. I'd be willing to do that, for 3.2 million dollars.

BEN: You've arranged this meeting so you could blackmail me?

MILES: (his lips move silently for a moment) It's extortion if you want to get technical.

BEN: 3.2? But why not 3.3 or 3.4?

[MILES stares at BEN, and BEN realizes something.]

BEN: What makes you think I have access to that kind of money?

MILES: Do not treat me like I'm one of them! Like I don't know who you are, or what you can do!

BEN: Your friend Charlotte has seen me, she knows I'm alive.

MILES: I'll take care of Charlotte. You just worry about getting me the money. You have two days.

BEN: My present situation is a little bit restricted. Can that be amended?

MILES: Okay. One week, in cash.

I'm thinking Ben thought the gas deployment would make this money transaction moot. And Miles knows that Charlotte & Faraday are disabling the gas bomb device. Very cat n' mouse...but I think it could be possible Ben stole from Miles and he is using Widmore to get paid.

I just don't think Sawyer is the chief confidence man on the island now.

Eddy

;D

sniff

Thanks for reading.

Ben ever do anything nice - or good, without manipulation? We haven't seen it yet!

which is to say i still liked it. in fact, there was a lot of really good stuff: Harper's sudden appearance/disappearance in the rain; the return of the voices; the link between Ben's childhood crush and Juliet; the return of the Red Sox video and the new info it now contains; and, of course, the reveal of another Dharma station, the Tempest.

The problem with the ep is that, while being ostensibly about Juliet, once again managed to duck all the really obvious questions: we see her ask Ben about Zach and Emma at dinner. We don't see her immediately after the crash of flight 815 saying "why aren't we rescuing these people?", asking "why the hell are we kidnapping their children?", or asking Ben what the fuck is up with the whole list in the first place. Think of it this way: you're a scientist brought to a mysterious island to do research on pregnant women. check. You're living in a community of apparently nice normal people, albiet who might have some big secrets. check. But you've been there a while and a plane suddenly crashes on the island. And instead of saying, "hey, why don't we contact the outside world to rescue these people", you go along with this whole bizarre plan to spy on them and kidnap their children?

As a Lost fan, i obviously don't expect all the answers to these questions upfront. I'm happy enough to be strung along for a period without being spoon fed. But it is essentially a waste of a season 4 Juliet-centric episode to use her flashbacks to explore her relationship with Ben and Goodwin but without addressing at least *some* of the major questions we have stacked up about her.

The last time we had a Juliet-centric episode, we at least found out how she came to the island, what she came for, and why she stayed. But there's still loads we don't know: how did an apparently mild-mannered baby doctor get so good with weapons, for instance? what does she know about the Others, having lived among them for 3 years? What was in her letter we saw in the mobisode? As interesting as the stuff with her and Ben was this ep, we really didn't learn buttkiss.

One more thing - curious what y'all think:

Plot hole, or not - When Jack flooded the Hydra, Ben slammed that door shut, possibly dooming "HIS love" to drown. We see Ben is a tough little douchnozzle (hehehehe) so this is an odd act of cowardice. Is he so sick of Juliet's rejection he wouldn't mind if she died? Gotta be, cause I don't see Ben afraid of much...except NOT having more information than an adversary. Maybe Ben has "seen" this event before and knows how it turn out. Just seems like odd behavior for him. Well - then again, he was cold-blooded toward dear old dad and knew what his betrayal would do to all the Dharma people - some of which (Annie aside) he probably liked or at least didn't dislike. He and Dexter would make a great team with their sociopathic lack of emotion.

Ben and Dexter: The Sitcom. Hmmmm got Hollywood on speed dial baby!

Ben really believes himself to be a guy doing things in the best interest of the island. If they have to be bad things, so be it. That's what makes his character so wonderful.

Lots of people that start out "doing good" become corrupt. If they have the power to do good, they have power. You're in DC, you know what power does to good people.

I see the Juliet Ben thing as just that. He had already had orchestrated the purge, was probably pretty proud of himself, and then decided to use that power he had to do something for himself.

Wanna bet the island didn't llok too kindly on that?

I agree that the one big hole left from this episode is how a mild mannered baby doctor becomes indoctrinated into a seemingly sociopathic, militarized cult so quickly. There has to be something that happens, some reveal, that convinces all the 'indoctrinees' that Ben is "right", and it has something to do with Jacob, and the mysterious list. What could it be?

For We Ate - have you had any luck with the instructions I emailed you? If that didn't do it - (though I followed my own instructions from scratch and it worked perfectly) I have another idea. Let me know what's happening.

it wouldn't be any of the Oceanic Six since it would be much bigger news, given the celebrity status they have.

And it wouldn't be Locke since it's clear he'd sooner die than leave the island.

it wouldn't be Sawyer either - there's no way Kate wouldn't go to his funeral. it has to be someone Kate was at best indifferent to, at worst openly hostile. i wouldn't rule out some wild card but Michael, the guy who killed two people to get off the island, fits the bill best.

I totally agree about that sideline reporter too. About as hot a reporter as there is right now.

Under no circumstances do I ever see Jack about to throw himself off a bridge for Sawyer.

I was getting a vibe Juliet might get back as a non-O6 member. Her in the casket would explain Jack's and Kate's reactions. But not the ghetto Hoffs-Drawler is in (they REALLY emphasize it as a poor, black neighborhood) and not the lack of visitors (sister and nephew at least).

But now after Ben's tantrum - he'd see Juliet dead before he lets her go back or be with another...ESPECIALLY Jack. No WAY Juliet gets off that island alive with loverboy Benny around.

Except - according to the paper obit the name was not one of the O6...at least not of the 4 we currently know of. So it still could be Sayid if he was in hiding and took an alias. So I'm sticking with Sayid...for now.

Still, interesting thought.

Mmmmm Erin Andrews. Mmmmmm. Like I said, I was at a game in Madison in September and she was out on State Street the night before the game. In short shorts and a tank top. Amazing - only guys asked for autographs. She put away a few Duck Farts too. We had $100 up for anyone who could get her to do a body shot. Alas - no one won. And believe me, the money was an unnecessary incentive.

She's about 6 foot tall and those legs seem like they are 5 feet long.

With the coffin you have to ask???

Why would Jack jump off a bridge for him/her?

Why would Kate despise him/her?

Why would he/she have no one to visit their funeral? (how sad that is)

Why would it be in a poor, black, LA neighborhood?

And if you believe they will work in the newspaper clipping a whole new set of questions must be answered like:

Is Latham an alias? From NY, died in LA in a loft.

Hanging from a loft...maybe suicide?

Has a son

Am I missing anything? Sure sounds like Michael - meets ALL the criteria.

Occam's Razor folks.

SPOILER TIME SPOILER TIME SPOILER TIME

The freeze frame TiVo info of the Obit in the season finale gave us only vague clues...which was TPTB intent. But the production assistant who worked on that episode TRANSCRIBED the entire obit, and it only points to Michael, living under an assumed identity. If the PA's info had not been leaked...then I'd be joining you all in this fun coffin speculation...as we weren't suppose to know about the "Man from NY, survived by a teenage son" tidbits...yet...which leaves little doubt, especially when you factor in the neighborhood depicted, that no one showed up, Jack surprised that Walt wasn't even there, Kate's reaction to the murderer/traitor's funeral...Just too many blinking neon signs pointing to Mike.

END SPOILERS END SPOILERS END SPOILERS

Ok...got that outta my system. No...the person in the coffin is NOT an Oceanic 6 survivor....but it doesn't mean it's not a survivor of Flight 815 living under an assumed identity.

I also don't believe Jack was ready to throw himself off that bridge JUST because of the person in the coffin at Hoffs-Drawler...but rather, because of a COMBINATION of factors...possibly some other deaths he has had to deal with since returning back to the states. I think the H-D coffin person was simply "the last straw" for Jack.

Jack returned "home"...but found once there, he had been turned into nothing more than a liar with nothing left to "fix".

http://tinyurl.com/2d9guh

Great song too. Watch til the end, a funny shot of some stupid shit grabbing her tit. My God, that ass...

Thanks for sharing that. Her tush is phenomenal, too! I gotta start watching Monday Night Baseball!

Yup, 4we8, and his name is......SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER....................... .

Ji Yeon

So our big death...(SEPERATE than who will be in the coffin, btw) is going to be who?

Sun or Jin ?

watch for her during anything ESPN/ABC now, she has really moved up the ladder.

The puke Iowa kid? If he had any sense he would have grabbed that pooper - not a quick feel of sideboob. Although, for a skinny girl, she has quite the rack. I am transfixed on the heart-shaped, athletic butt.

But to me...looking at the all the MEN possibilities only...as it is clearly stated on the obit seen here:

http://tinyurl.com/2e9twy

Sawyer? Teenage son? Locke? No frickin way. Jin? In that neighborhood? Hurley? In that tiny ass coffin? Ben? You gotta be shittin me! Desmond? Why would Kate be so bitter? Sayid? Sayid is SAYID in the future, not Lantham!! Bernard? Pushin it, but he was from NY. Perhaps he chose to return, leaving Rose on the island so she wouldn't die? Can't see him leaving her, tho.

Who does that leave? M-I-C...see ya real soon....H-A-E-L...the guy deserves to die....D-A-W-S-O-N.

If it's anyone but him...TPTB will have lotsa 'splainin to do!

Is it possible Rose has a niece or nephew in LA that she sends Bernard back to care for? Explains the neighborhood...but not the fake name...unless Bernie got the "assumed identity" treatment to go back. Still a huge stretch. Does Bernard even have a teenage son?

But that whole "obit" was fishy to begin with...first off...it looks like a NEWS report...a police blotter type notice...and those do NOT ever include funeral notifications...that goes in the OBIT section, which has to be purchased by a loved one. Seeing as how no one showed up but Jack...I'm guessing loved ones are pretty sparse.

Secondly...Police plotters do NOT report on suicides of regular civilians. Only CELEBRITY/PUBLIC FIGURE suicides are ever reported. Obviously the person in the coffin was not much of a celebrity.

It seems the writers were trying to have it both ways...a POLICE REPORT WITH DETAILS & OBITUARY NOTICE all in one. Which raises the question...a lazy ploy used by the LOST writers...or a purposeful ploy by someone who WANTED to get Jack's attention...AND get him to that funeral?

Either way...it's all very fishy.

As you saw...nobody actually PHYSICALLY travelled (ala Back to the Future) anywhere, Desmond's consciousness travelled, not his body...and better yet...the more he did it...the more dangerous it became for him...which means it won't be happening every fuckin 5 minutes on the show.

My problem was with the DeLorean, dude. No DeLorean...no problem.

BTW...I always knew TIME would play a factor in LOST...for the Malcolm David Kelley aspect alone...I knew it would be addressed...I just wanted it to be "organic" in nature...and not some sci-fi, gadgety-ass gizmo thing-a-ma-bob. THAT I would of had a problem with.

And...as I just stated in my last post...it's possible the "fishy" obit IS a red herring, too. I'm with ya, brutha!

Doesn't she know what it took to get her here?

What it took to keep her here?

How can she NOT understand?!?!??!

(goes bugeyed)

THAT SHE'S MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Bows)

HAIL...to those big cocksuckers

HAIL HAIL to Michigan

The cesspool of the West.

Bet you never sang that in East Lansing

Yeah right.

And much, MUCH worse.

Michigan haters:

1. MSU

2. OSU

3. Wisconsin (though I REEEEAALLLY hate Poisonous, Useless, Nuts).

What kind of mascot is that anyway? A fuckin Buckeye.

Hate: 1A OSU, 1B Michigan

I can't imagine how much you must despise an instate rival. Ever go to a MSU vs. UM game at the Big House?

Thanks for the congrats. NOW, the real work begins.

I used to shoot for the Jumbotron crew at Tampa Stadium and was always around the ESPN talent on the sidelines.

It was when I rode with her on an elevator...when I noticed it...Her UNBELIEVABLY HUGE engagement ring on her finger. Her boyfriend had dropped this huge rock on her the week before she got to Tampa!! It was simply ridiculous...like a movie prop ring.

So...my hopes for a love connection were immediately dashed...not unlike yours by this Iowa dufus. Haven't seen Melissa Stark in quite a while on TV...I imagine she's barefoot and pregnant somewhere in the Hamptons.

Bens death= no more protection and no last resort back to the island...

im sure someone has said this but any thoughths

I remember her losing many points by wearing he boulder on air. She did get preggers and I'm sure she has lost form.

Erin is available and I, my friend, will not Goodwin you if you hit it first. Goodwin is now a verb. Nice.

Funny, out side of the Budwiser song ("when you said Wi-scon-sin, you said it all!" bum-bum), I don't even know the words to Varsity. But I will ALWAYS remember that version if the UM fight song. I think that is unhealthy.

My Thoughth?

You type like me.

That - and I think it hath to be Michael. Just too much out there

the fun part is how and why?

or not

could thtill be Ben

Fuck I don't know

Folks, even if you want to avoid spoilers, for the love of all that's holy, ay least watch that last sneak peek.

http://tinyurl.com/2kc3zd

More answers than the whole 2nd season.

In October of 2004, Stark left ESPN after an internal affairs issue. According to sources, Stark's behavior was causing some dissonance among the male anchors. Head anchor Chris "Boomer" Berman reportedly had a conversation with Stark asking her to stop "spooning it out" to the likes of Trey Wingo and Craig Kilborn. However, the etymology of the term "spooning it out" is still unclear

That's kinda funny.

And yeah - lives in Jersey with a little Starky. Hubby is with Goldman Sachs. More useless knowledge

Back on topic - I think TPTB have said that the coffin is definitely NOT empty, and that the newspaper clipping was not necessarily cannon, so take that for what it's worth. I have trouble thinking that anyone would be famous enough to get their own story in a major paper when they die, not just a complimentary obit, and yet NO ONE shows up for the funeral. Not even some curious reporter, when just months or several years earlier the Oceanic 6 were some of the most recognizable faces in America. At least Kate was. I'm still thinking it's someone that was NOT a member of the Oceanic 6, and I'll stick with that until proven otherwise!!!!

Take your vomit-reeking index finger and shove it up your bony ass

YOu will be forever quoted my friend. Though the real Milla - kinda got a thing for her.

Ask 4we8 what he thinks so far. But I have been on it for a couple of years, I lve it, it is a regular community to itself. I seed a bunch of stuff (including LOST - I get it up about 1 1/2 hours after it air, commercial free of course). Torrents are the way to go.

Sidereal is ok if you wanna catch a show you missed or past eps of stuff. You can watch it right there on the site. Takes longer to download, 90MB took about 15 minutes which isn't bad. I have a fast PC though. Crappy quality. A good hour show in decent quality compressed will run close to a GB. OK quality, around 350MB. I'm not an expert though

Some might argue the dude who played Zach in Wedding Crashers...but he was way over the top. Perhaps Spader in Less than Zero...But I actually KNOW pathetitic egomaniacs like Kilborn played.

I could totally see Kilby porkin' Stark on Berman's desk in Bristol.

Download off The Pirate Bay - personal favorite (where I seed my stuff)

http://tinyurl.com/yrppkl

Just install uTorrent (or another BitTorret App) and it all can be yours.

j/k ;D

One more thing

Fear the Badger

Did you check the LOST Sneak Peek yet?

1. No one has a sense of humor

2. No one will argue the points raised

3. Mob mentality kicks in and they all play - ooh, now I can spout off like a big man because others agree with me

4. ...there is no 4. Milla and Co. were just a bunch of cuntsores. I got your back. Next time, I'm jumping in then.

I have to load a bit torrent player first before watching shows on sidereel and pirate bay, right? I'm not very tech savvy. Again, I'd be glad to pay $ for the DVD's if they were available, so don't bust me anyone!

Download a BitTorrent App, and it will allow you to go to a site like Pirate Bay, search for whatever you want, gives you pages of options, choose which file is best(do you want a quick download, small file, larger file with better quality, a file with all the episodes in one large file, etc...)click the link and the App (u Torrent in my case)will start downloading the file. You can watch it's progress on the screen (going from 0% - 100%). Once its done, you go to your downloads file and presto! What you ordered sir!

There are pointers...like download files that have more seeders than leechers - stuff like that. I can help you - just drop me an email. Here is uTorrent's website - they explain it gooder (smiles) and have a tutorial. http://www.utorrent.com/?clien t=utorrent1770

Again - 4we8 has just started his journey - I was up til 3am helping him get going. He just made one critical error. It's really not a big deal to get started. And once you do...good times.

Our Football team is better too.

You might have us in Women's LaCrosse

Thanks for the sidereel info, ed. I'm passing it along to the friend.

Sun, or rather the actress that plays her, was just on the TV guide channel! I'm not watching, I'm actually in the middle of a project, but she was flirting with the TV host and talking about being single and dating. You can only dream, single guys!

The last sneak peek (#5) PLEASE just check that one out. Everyone...GET TO IT!!

I gotta hear what you all think of THAT!

Can't wait til Thursday! Heading to bed now.

Thanks

Of course I'm only mentioning this to reinforce my overall theory posted a few weeks back.

That and to give you a chance to shout out the part of the subject of this post that reminds you of another show.

;->

node great podcast extracts....woohoo, more smokie to come, more Locke and more weird shit..woohoo

Having said that, I think killing in the name of [insert god here] is wrong and always in violation of the core tenets of aforementioned faith. Killing is just wrong in general. I say this because I don't want you to think I'm a killing apologist.

And this goes back to what the podcast mentioned. A priest has a calling. At times he may doubt his faith and stumble to regain it. That's what happened with Locke when the hatch exploded, and from what I gathered from the podcast will also happen to Locke again this season.

Even with all that said, I again reitterate that good men do bad things over and over again in the name of what they perceive to be good. The crusades, Joseph McCarthy, etc. Sometimes what they think is good isn't.

How will all of that play out here? dunno. But I'd be willing to bet my Hubdub fortune (look it up) it plays into the meaning of this show.

NOT a Jack apologist. But I undertand the rge he felt and old see how someone coulld snap an want to pull that trigger when you ad it all up. That bald beauty has been Jack's foil. He blew up his ride now he's killing he people here to ave them all. My responsemay very well have been

'click' 'click' 'click''click'

In any event, Locke is crazy. I forgot about the hatch.

Not all killings are out of self preservation though. A lot are acts of passion, some are mental instabilities.

Um...what were we talking about?

What makes Locke's character so compelling is he is called by "the island", and he believes that to be a higher calling. He has seen wonderful and majestic things. His faith in this is guiding him. But his faith has led him to do bad things. He is single-minded in his faith much of the time, and at times it has foresaken him. But he only comes back even more single minded. To me, that's his flaw....and what I fear for some will become a deadly flaw.

Pa - your idea to speculate away, I think you should go 1st.

So if you are banished from a hidden place, how do you get back? Interesting question. More interesting, does that banishment put Jack and Ben on the same side against Locke? The enemy of my enemy is my friend senario.

Or maybe it is Ben in the coffin and Jack takes up his fight to get back. To banish Locke.

You know, at some point we have to go back....no...not go back to room 23...well, there too, but go back and read all the theories posed here. Those that weren't used would make a hell of a story.

;->

Team Jack better keep him on a short leash. He went from beating Ben to an inch of death. The gun at Locke's head, you have to disturbed to be that

I'd appreciate more help, but I am swamped with work right now! I'm not going to have time to mess with it until next weekend - Easter, I get Friday off. So I'll let you know if I need more help - thanks. At least I don't have to rely on it for Lost!

I will answer wth an episode.

If you feel like 40 minutes of jaw dropping entertainment, check out the link below - it is an ep where I broke my own "WTF" moments during an hourlong. ESPECIALLY THE END. Must watch the end and remember these guys are best friends.

There is alot goingon - you are dropped in the middle of a big story arc. A few heads-up:

Angel's baby was kidnapped by Wes. Wes has read a prophesy that Angel would kill his son. And the bad guys had been sending Angel the baby's blood mixed in with his supply, so he WAS acting weird.

While escaping, Wes runs into a lackie of Angels mortal enemy (Holtz). She fools Wes, slits his neck, and takes the kid.

Holtz knew there was only 1 place Angel couldn't come after him and the kid -he gets sarjean to open a portal to a hell demention - off thet go. Angel can't follow. So this ep is about finding a way to get to Connor (baby), Gunn and Fred (Angel's partners)really want to fiind Wes so Angel doesn't first. ENJOY!

http://tinyurl.com/24bnon

Forgiving

THIS places permagrin on my face as I leave for work. Man, do I look creepy!

On a side note, anyone seen him in the Batman trailers? He's talking to Gordon. I found it ironically funny Batmanuel is in TDK.

http://tinyurl.com/2469cq

http://tinyurl.com/2t8teo

Just scroll down a bit and click on the season you want and read away. It's quite interesting....and they are not just atmosphere or there as a creepy factor.

and lets not forget the 'Help me' plea to Locke, maybe he is trying to call out to other losties but their Island power is not up to scale with Locke's yet, so it just sounds like whispers, wher eLocke can hear teh full voice

;->

Coincidence?

NEW TB IN 12 SHORT HOURS. Do we hit 1000 here??

There is a "whispers" section at Dark Ufo

http://tinyurl.com/257f9h

Hey Smut peddler - love the enthusiasm and yes ut is great news. But I posted that word for word about 16-17 posts up. You might want to read the posts before you post. It's kinda the polite thing to do. No offense, mate ;D

heheh... can't believe nobody threw that out yet...

Little ate to the party and it took me DAYS to get through all these posts! anyone miss me? no? ok

I actually just returned home on a flight from Sydney and they put me in the back of the plane - I thought hey! I'm a tailie! Then I thought... oh no!!

So my two cents on this latest ep-

Harper - NOT the real Harper! Think about this scene for a moment - Juliet (a former OTHER) hears whispers and doesn't think "oh that would be the guys I ussed to hang with" but instead FREAKS OUT like the 815ers do whenever THEY hear that shit - in other words the whispers are NOT the OTHERS!

Said it before, these appearances are "the island" - not the smoke monster but something else - I'm thinking JACOB!

EVERY time they are all about telling somebody "you have work to do" - even Ben seeing his mother ("her") who tells him to stay away from that sonic fence - as soon as Richard heard him say he saw his mother he KNEW - that was JACOB!

I'm thinking either Jacob cannot take his own form outside of that shack, or he's using some tech to allow him to speak to people outside the shack but only in the form of people scanned from their memories by smokie...

NEXT!

So I don't really think it's MIKHAIL - I think Michael is on that boat - like I said on that mega 10,000 post talkback last year - but I'm thinking Michael is NOT Ben's man! I think he's being helped by the guy, just like Sayid and Des. I also agree with whoever said last week that Michael (and Walt?) is time trippin like Des and that may well be the NY flashback we're getting. DONT TRUST THE CAPTAIN! Could that guy be Ben's man?? Why would Locke have to sit down for that?

So... about Ben... He is definitely NOT one of the good guys! Come on!! He is an absolute CLASSIC bad guy! And all that stuff about "trust me I'm one of the good guys" - REALLY! Let me break this down using an analogy - STAR WARS, which we know the producers love to reference...

SENATOR PALPATINE constantly tells people I'm one of the good guys - THAT'S HOW HE GETS PEOPLE TO WORK FOR HIM! He convinces everyone to give him a whole bloody ARMY of "good guys" - clones - but everyone he's got working for him ends up just serving his own EVIL purposes! THE WHOLE TIME he is telling everyone I'm ONE OF THE GOOD GUYS!

Oh yeah I almost forgot - again can't believe nobody thought of this - Lewis and Faraday!

They were totally LYING about what they were doing - which was HACKING that system so that THEY now control that system! It looked so obvious to me - they uploaded a VIRUS that went through all the systems and changed permissions over to THEM - that's why Faraday kept putting in the same command over and over again - he's getting PERMISSION DENIED - PERMISSION DENIED - PERMISSION DENIED - and suddenly he gets PERMISSION GRANTED. That poison gas system is now under WIDMORE'S CONTROL!

Speaking of Widmore, I thought watching last week (can't remember if I posted this thought) - what if WIDMORE is the GOOD GUY?

What has he done so far - first he's like "you're not marrying my daughter" to Des - JUST LIKE the woman in the jewellery store - because he's not SUPPOSED TO! Then he's bidding on the Black Rock log book and he HELPS Des get in touch with his daughter - and (I know I posted this part) he seems to KNOW what Des is going to say before he says it! I think Widmore is another temponaught, like Des, and he is making sure things happen RIGHT - you know, so the world doesn't end an all...

Seriously if it's Ben vs Widmore then I think from what we've seen so far it's pretty CLEAT who is the bad guy here!

And I'm sticking to Juliet in the coffin until I get a better idea

CLEAR who is the bad guy...

etc...