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Massawyrm Reviews D&D 4E Part 3!!

first by BrightEyes	Mar 1st, 2008 04:47:57 PM
eh
The Nerd Trifecta by Thrillho77	Mar 1st, 2008 04:51:45 PM
EXCELSIOR!
People still play this? by skywalkerfamily	Mar 1st, 2008 04:59:12 PM
I thought everyone went to online gaming?
Nice posts Massa by kwisatzhaderach	Mar 1st, 2008 05:09:07 PM
I might take a peek at the 4th edition myself.
the reliance on other human beings by JRKerr	Mar 1st, 2008 05:14:47 PM
I am reading along trying to figure out how this might relate to video games and discard all the info that depends on what sort of person would even want to be a dm and not be playing. I will not play frisbee. I will not play checkers. These are games that require another human being. I don't trust other people and I am damn sure not playing with any. I mean... I thank massa for writing this... but I still can't tell if the whole "to hit" and "def" where def is evade and not dmg reduction... but it only barely hints at what video games will do with this new engine... especially the games that aren't officially d+d but that swipe the engine from it (I play a lot of those).
GNOMES!! by LordTwinkie	Mar 1st, 2008 05:24:04 PM
are monsters now apparently.
I still think "Dungeons and Dragons" is the wrong name for this by KnightShift	Mar 1st, 2008 05:27:16 PM
Again, when was the last time that ANY campaign for this game called for the characters to go into a dungeon? Concordantly, how many times do players have to face a DRAGON? That's false advertising, folks. This game should be renamed "Bushes and Orcs" instead.
Nah it should be called Forests and Castles. by skywalkerfamily	Mar 1st, 2008 05:57:56 PM
Since that's what it is.
death giants instead of frost giants? by newc0253	Mar 1st, 2008 05:59:29 PM
lame. really frakking lame.
So basically this is a loot game... buy more WOTC loot in order by ruven76	Mar 1st, 2008 06:01:04 PM
Sucks for poor people.
FIEND FOLIO by la_sith	Mar 1st, 2008 06:12:26 PM

Interesting read... but by jakeblues	Mar 1st, 2008 06:14:42 PM
I am still playing first edition. Never saw the need to upgrade, and it looks like this is just another attempt to "fix" what was never broken in the first place.
Long Live First Edition by Wrath4771	Mar 1st, 2008 07:17:59 PM
First edition is still by far the best version of the game, though I know people who swear by second edition that I don't think are completely out of their heads. As for those of us who don't play with minatures and maps - it's called imagination. What I visualize in my head is more exciting than some damn map. If something was ever really confusing then we would just draw it out. And I'm so sick of WotC messing with something that Gary Gygax and the other founders of the game have created. In tyring to make a "better" game I think they continually just screw the pooch.
Honestly... by Celicynd	Mar 1st, 2008 07:27:13 PM
This game sounds terrible. Completely homogonized so that everything is exactly the same so everything can scale happily. Everything that massawyrm is making sound awesome sounds incredibly boring to me. I love how the game has now progressed to having to use miniatures (so they can sell more stuff). I think my friends had it right in sticking with 1e and 2e, and not switching over to the 3e/3.5e mechanics.
Sounds exactly like Diablo II actually by CarmillaVonDoom	Mar 1st, 2008 07:28:46 PM
Seems they are trying to make it more like a computer game instead of embracing what makes it different from computer games.
ENOUGH. by Stevie Grant	Mar 1st, 2008 07:33:10 PM
ENOUGH D&D SHIT ALREADY.
This doesn't sound like an RPG by GarethKeenan	Mar 1st, 2008 07:54:17 PM
This whole series confirms my suspicions: that D&D is less and less an RPG and more and more a tactical miniatures game. I don't recall anything in Massawyrm's articles that mentions roleplaying. It has all been about game balance, combat, and "kewl stuff". Is there anything that promotes character story or background development? Anything about interesting plots? Or is it just combat and kewl abilities? I don't know of any RPG so obsessed with game balance as D&D. Too bad.
When you're crazy... by FlickaPoo	Mar 1st, 2008 07:55:04 PM
...do you know you're crazy? I mean when you're at home in the dark, playing Dungeons and Dragons and masturbating in your own feces...do you ever stop and say to yourself..."...MAN!, am I fucking CRAZY!!"
ROLL THE DICE TO SEE IF I GET DRUNK!!! by DOGSOUP	Mar 1st, 2008 08:00:58 PM
IF THERE ARE ANY GIRLS HERE I WANT TO DO THEM!!!!
Thanks for the writeup, Massa by chrth	Mar 1st, 2008 08:20:05 PM
It's about time AICN started posting relevant articles
GarethKeenan: Roleplaying is what happens between battles by chrth	Mar 1st, 2008 08:22:07 PM
And it's the players and the DM that determine how good the roleplaying is. No set of rules can do it for you. It makes sense that the writeups would focus on encounters because that's where the rules lie, and that's really the only part Massa can speak to. If he said "Roleplaying was great!" we wouldn't be able to discern whether that was because of the game or the players.
D&D 5.0 by StarchildAD	Mar 1st, 2008 08:57:03 PM
Comes with a pair of scissors to cut your dick off. I for one will buy the books for the sheer fact that I do have a girlfriend and do get pussy. The game happens to be entertaining. Sadly the people that usually play these games are pretty nerdy for my tastes. I dont have others to play this game with as my friends have lives but It would be nice to play. For those that have never played this game, it can be alot of fun. Im not into the minis and maps. Im the few that just enjoy using their mind instead of looking at my perspective on a little square. Kinda kills the mood for me. Fifth edition in 3 years.
StarchildAD: Do what I did by chrth	Mar 1st, 2008 09:09:47 PM
Have a son. Wait 8 years, then introduce him and his friends to the game (7 years, 2 months to go, so it'll probably be 5th edition). They'll need a DM, and I guess I could volunteer. A daughter can work as well, if you raise her right.
have you ever heard of by Spazatronic 2000	Mar 1st, 2008 09:21:08 PM
world of warcraft, just checking
I thought everyone made up their own rules anyway? by skywalkerfamily	Mar 1st, 2008 09:24:35 PM
Who wants to wade through some 70 page Manuel? We just came up with our own basic system.
Part 3?? by RobertBaron	Mar 1st, 2008 10:21:58 PM
This really needs 3 parts? How about a 3 part article about a new floppy drive?
Chrth: have you played any other RPGs? by GarethKeenan	Mar 1st, 2008 10:31:44 PM
Virtually every other RPG out there focuses on character background and roleplaying elements (witness the Aspects of FATE or the passions of Pendragon). There is a hell of a lot more to an RPG than combat, even if you don't pay any attention to roleplaying mechanics. What about skills and magic, for a start?
The best part about 4th Edition is... by thedarklinglord	Mar 1st, 2008 10:48:03 PM
You'll be able to pick up a lot of 3.X books for really cheap. At least, that's what I'm looking forward to, since I hardly bought any beyond the core rulebooks and have been updating all the 2nd Edition stuff myself. What pisses me off about WotC is the way they milk this shit for every last dime. They released dozens of 3.X books, at $30 a pop for a barely 200-page book, and there's only a handful of useful bits or none at all. And more times than not, there's glaringly obvious gaps of information or ideas they could have explored and added to beef the book up. Instead, they save it so they can release yet another shitty supplemental book that you'll have to plunk down $30 for. Is it any wonder people get pissed whenever they release new editions? And the fact that 4th is heavily reliant upon miniatures and maps comes as no surprise, since they want ensure players all but HAVE to buy their other products like D&D miniatures and the now defunct Fantastic Locations map packs which have been replaced by the less bang-for-your-buck Dungeon Tiles. I think I'll be sticking to 3.X for a few years still. Especially since, as Massa points out, there's a lot of stuff missing from the Monster Manual - which means it'll be a few months before they release the next MM and milk another $30-$40 bucks from us. And even after they've finally included all the dragons in the Monster Manuals, then they'll release the 4th Edition Draconomicon with a few crumbs of extra info that just as easily could have been included in the MM.
Thanks again :) by BlindOgre	Mar 1st, 2008 11:47:38 PM
Thanks, Massawyrm! Good info. I had already heard about the missing critters and reliance on maps and minis. However, there may be some justification for both, even for heavy RP groups. Metallics generally leave humans and such alone and are only rarely approached by lower level adventurers. Since 4e really requires a new group of PCs anyway, it will be a while before the party is ready for such an encounter, and by that time the expansion with metallics should be out. Also, since the advent of battle-mats many moons ago, just about everyone I know uses the mats to run combat, even if coins and dice are used in place of figures when such are in short supply. Simplifying the combat and movement rules actually makes using the 1" grid map easier, so the group spends less time measuring (and arguing about measurements). So, the delay in metallics is an iffy call, but I can see their point, and the new rules may lead no-maps/no-minis players to actually prefer maps and minis - if they can be convinced to give it a chance. Please know that there are many of us who appreciate your work and insight. Thanks again! :)
Monster Manuals by Maegnarval	Mar 1st, 2008 11:55:37 PM
From what i saw, they are putting the dragons in their own Monster Manual Book. Heck, they could do another one for Undead Monsters, one for Elemental Planes Monsters, One for Sea Monsters, one for Forest Monsters, one for Cave Monsters, one for other Aerial & Heavenly monsters, one for desert monsters, one for cold climate monsters, one for tropical jungle monsters, another Monster Manual for Demons, Devils & other dark creatures. And Finally an expanded Deities & DemiGods manual.
Miniatures combat...boring. by Pariah74	Mar 2nd, 2008 12:00:59 AM
So in three reviews not once did he qualify his statement that 4th Ed. encourages role playing and character story driven games. Sounds like it's tactical combat, with homogenized monsters who burst like pinatas when the uber-PCs fart in thier general direction. Thanks but no-thanks. If I want miniatures combat I will play Warmachine or Hordes, if I want role playing I'll choose any of a dozen systems that don't need grids and minis.
Updating the Old Modules for 4.0?!?! by Maegnarval	Mar 2nd, 2008 01:13:00 AM
I hope that they do update the old Modules. Would be nice to see the Tomb of Horrors series combined & updated for 4.0 with new artwork & expanded adventuring, for example.
433 by 433	Mar 2nd, 2008 01:13:31 AM
It's been awesome to read these three articles. I haven't played RPGs for 20 years, but this has been great to read. More nerdy gaming articles like this, please!
What. The. Fuck. by Grando	Mar 2nd, 2008 02:46:12 AM
Is this shit? Fucking nerds.
Ever try New Dimension Games? by The Game Master	Mar 2nd, 2008 03:18:38 AM
It seems most people hate WotC's turning D&D into a tabletop video game or a buy-more-miniatures game. Well, try newdimensiongames.com for RPGs made in the style of Gygax. They do things old school; Pure imagination, no toys. Hell, the core rules even have a dedication to Gygax and Tolkien.
Thanks, Massawyrm by Bald Evil	Mar 2nd, 2008 04:15:02 AM
I really enjoyed this review series. I was already looking forward to the new system, now I am looking forward to it even more. Having played D&D since 1978, I am very glad to see a lot of the stuff I have always wanted to see actually being built into the game. I'm not sure why some people are so vehemently resistant to this change... but I also don't care that much, because I don't know them and their opinions don't matter to me or to WOTC. What matters is that we're being given better balance, easier to use tools, less kibble, and more time to spend designing, running, and playing in cool games. Roleplaying is a function of the players and the GM, the system has nothing to do with it; a good group can RP a dramatic and memorable Toon or Macho Women with Guns game, if they want to. Sounds to me like WOTC has done an outstanding job of listening to what the new generation of RPG'ers want and want to see, and have delivered it. As far as the aging beardos who worship the ground Gygax walks on and curse all things 3.5 and 4E... keep complaining, it gives me something to laugh at while I'm at work. Thanks again, Wyrm!
Using the miniatures by Maegnarval	Mar 2nd, 2008 04:15:36 AM
ok, sure use your imagination, no problem, however, when when played b4 we had miniatures we still had to draw littles X's for how our party was lined-up for exploring or combating so the DM could see how to stage the events that happen to the party. That being said, the miniatures only enhance the gameplay! Now, tell me would you rather play Chess by just drawing your moves on paper?!
Enhancing the 4.0 gamplay for the computer age by Maegnarval	Mar 2nd, 2008 04:21:47 AM
Ok, on that note i wouldn't mind if the new & updated old game modules included a dvd/blu-ray of graphics representing the areas to explore & the monsters & NPC's! Along with any other supplemental materials, such as programs that help keep track of Player XP & combat Hit points tracking. Just another way to enhance the gameplay, by way of using like a computer Notebook.
What about your imagination? by ikkyu	Mar 2nd, 2008 05:20:46 AM
Ok, so it's been 20 years since i played any RPG, tabletop, computer or otherwise, but i have to say: what's with the slavish devotion to the rules? from the articles, and many of the TB comments, i'm picking up a lot of "it's great, but this particular rule is kinda restrictive, or this system is now more playable than the unintuitive 2nd or 3rd edition..." so - um - why not change it? when i did used to play, my group of friends used the old Runequest(2) percentile system, which was infinitely scaleable and applicable to any gameplay situation. this meant that the GM (DM) could arbitrate and decide on the fly the mechanics for any situation. the point being that then the rules and numbers existed only to allow the story to unfold and develop fluidly - the rules were, by design, almost invisible during gameplay, so that we were very rarely taken out of character into a long and boring consultation of lots of rulebooks. sure - this meant that the GM was god, and had to be scrupulously fair and even-handed (where your write-up sounds at times like your D&D games are a case of PCs versus DM...) - but that just made the role of GM more challenging and fun. all this inflexible adherence to complicated rules, and reliance on props (viz. miniatures: miniatures, for god's sake! what's wrong with your imagination?!) seems to me a real buzz-killer. but what do i know? i guess i'm not 15 any more...
in fact, we used to write games... by ikkyu	Mar 2nd, 2008 05:26:08 AM
in addition to the above, i remember many, many hours spent playing games we wrote ourselves, based on more or less adapted versions of the RQ2 game mechanics. i always thought that was the point - to use your own creativity and imagination - not to be bound to some corporation's (expensive) canon (tm).
KnightShift, it wasn't funny the first time you said it by Lemming	Mar 2nd, 2008 06:08:51 AM
and it's not funny now. Give it a rest will you?
I'm trying to avoid Flaming people who don't know what they're t by Captain_Jester	Mar 2nd, 2008 06:29:00 AM
I'm looking forward to this new edition more and more. With less time worrying about how to resolve mechanics, It means there's more time to develop a character's personality both in and out of combat. Yes, I think a character's personality shows in both. My favorite characters are the ones who showed personality all the time. The show-man wizard who used cantrips to spook thugs so he could protect kids and who was terrible at sneaking but convinced that Camouflage robes were all he needed, even within the city. the brave swashbuckling thief who was more prone to finding a way to get above the action and later leap down into the fray and who used anything lying around to his advantage, but also donated a tenth of his take to the goddess of luck and always made sure to leave a calling card, made especially fun when he later turned in someone who tried to mug him and told the guards that the man had been carrying a stack of said calling cards, letting him collect the reward on his own head. These are the things that make D&D great and the more they simplify, the easier it will be to do the things you love and to make characters into something more than a collection of numbers on paper. Yes, they've made it so that it's balanced across every level, but for those who would compare it to WoW or Everquest I ask...when was the last time you sat around with friends, eating pizza, Drinking Dew, and joking with each other, while playing an MMORPG? When was the last time you played a character so vivid that you remembered his foibles a decade later? That's what I thought.
Maegnarval & Bald Evil by Pariah74	Mar 2nd, 2008 07:15:46 AM
It's not the fact that it uses miniatures that irritates me. (I have a shit ton of minis in my basement), no what ticks me off is that you can't NOT use miniatures if you want combat. That's crap and wreaks of a system designed only to force you to buy miniatures. And Bald Evil, I hardly worship the ground Gygax walks on. I think there are better games out there than D&D. It's just that this doesn't sound like ROLE playing to me. More like miniatures combat...and if that's the case there are waaaaay better rules out there...like WARMACHINE!!
It sounds to me like... by Pariah74	Mar 2nd, 2008 07:46:12 AM
WOTC put out a remake of Chainmail as a miniatures combat game, but it flopped so the reworked D&D into a miniatures combat game. The sad thing is that it will work this time because there's a load of lemmings out there who will play anything. After playing 3.5 for a long time I recently broke out Palladium's TMNT game and it was like rediscovering roleplaying. It was just light and fun and totally ROLE playing! D&D has sucked for awhile, I just didn't know it. I'm excited to play some other NON-D20 games again!
So will 4e be released with an open gaming license? by Mr Willi	Mar 2nd, 2008 07:59:06 AM
I must admit, I'm glad WOTC has gone the route of many independent publishers and simplified things considerably. While I'm not sold just yet, I do see possibilities. Still, I'm not into D&D and that whole "let's steal from Tolkien" kind of fantasy. I would like to see the system uses for other genres, like pulp. Any chance the 4e rules will be releases under the open gaming license? Often independent publishers are far more creative with the system than the unimaginative folks over at WOTC.
The secret to life is.. by McTreble	Mar 2nd, 2008 08:08:43 AM
to find something you like to do and do it, whenever you can. You asshats need to leave these people alone. They play a fucking game in their own free time, it doesn't make your life any better or worse. Not that it makes a shit's bit of difference, but I'm married, a teacher, and have a 7 month old kid, as well as a bunch of friends (some game players, most not). If I could, I'd play DnD every weekend of my life. It's that much fun.. TO ME. Fuck you for judging me. And for those of you who are so quick to dismiss 4e as a WoW clone, or videotop RPG, have you played the game? Can you even intelligently make that comparison? Nobody in all 3 talkbacks have said they've played 4e yet. With the exception of Wyrm, none of you have any idea what you're talking about, even me. So fuck you all for that one too. I thought I'd hate 3.5 till I actually played it and saw how miniatures and the grid make the game better for me at least. For those who didn't like it, they condemned it AFTER they played it, which is what anyone with a fucking BRAIN would do. In closing, FUCK YOU for judging other people and jumping to conclusions about things which you know little.
This is crazy by dr sauch	Mar 2nd, 2008 08:39:59 AM
Reading these, I feel like the first time I went to a molecular biology seminar.
Grando by kwisatzhaderach	Mar 2nd, 2008 09:11:29 AM
I have something heartbreaing to tell you. You're a nerd too.
WTF do all of these abbreviations mean????? by skeletonjack	Mar 2nd, 2008 09:20:25 AM
Don't assume everyone knows what all of these acroynms stand for, I don't have a fucking clue what most of them are (though from reading the article that's probably a good thing). If you're gonna use abbreviations at least use the full title at the beginning so people know what you're on about as not everyone is into this stuff.
Mandatory Minis by Bald Evil	Mar 2nd, 2008 09:45:53 AM
My current D&D group has been together for about six years now. Since we started playing, we've been using the same wet-erase battlemat and the same mixed bag of leftover and unwanted Mage Knight miniatures to fill in for every PC, NPC, bulette, dragon, troll, etc. that has ever set foot on the table. Total investment for our minis? About $25 for 200-300 of them. Do they fit the squares? No. Do they ever look anything like what they're supposed to represent? Extremely rarely. Do we have the same amount of fun? Yes we do. :) You don't have to buy WOTC's minis if you don't want... for years I just drew the PC's and monsters on the mat with a wet erase pen and wiped em off whenever they changed places. Miniatures are a play aid in an RPG, not a mandate like in a wargame. If you don't want to spend money on them, there are plenty of bargains out there, or just use coins, candy corns, bottle caps, whatever you have. Your imaginations should be doing the heavy lifting in any case; the minis are just there to give you a better frame of reference and remind you that there is a 15' raging behemoth ten feet away from you.
Hack & Slash is what 4E is all about, sounds lame Massa by Stereotypical Evil Archer	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:12:12 AM
Massa, tell us about the story and the characters please. I guess you need to write part 4.
The beauty of D&D... by Dan Halen	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:23:08 AM
was that you could modify the rules to your group's liking. I played 2E from the age of 12-17 and we always would adapt our own rules or eliminate cumbersome ones. I've never played any of the later edtions but I remember how bad the running/chasing rules were in 2E. Instead of excitement and tension we'd have to break out the book to figure it out. D&D is about the roleplaying. I'm still friends with most of the guys I played with and we still joke about all the shit that went down in adventures. I'd love to see an online component, or dvd component added to adventures as long as the core pencil and paper/imagination aspect wasn't lost.
"Temple of Elemental Evil" Greyhawk adventure? by Dan Halen	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:24:38 AM
Anyone ever play that? I can remember trying to prep that one in 1992 as a 13 year old DM and being blown away by the drug induced weirdness of that one. Some reall early 80's wacko sword and sorcery shit going on there.
JRKerr by Dan Halen	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:25:46 AM
You seem like a miserable human being.
grid = showstopper by Dreamfasting	Mar 2nd, 2008 11:04:20 AM
For me, being dependent on a grid is a complete showstopper. Don't get me wrong - there are some fun games I've had plotting out traffic jams in a dungeon, but for the most part I want heroic fantasy, where the DM is a storyteller, not a chess opponent against the players. I think it will appeal very strongly to a certain segment of the gaming population and likely turn a strong profit on miniature/computer tie-ins, so as a business choice, it's probably the right game for them to have made. But for myself, there's nothing that I've read in this or other reviews I've seen on the web that matches what I'm looking for in a game system.
You CAN use substitutes for minis... by ZeroCorpse	Mar 2nd, 2008 11:25:48 AM
BUT let us clarify that a lot of recent D&D material does seem to be "suggesting" that you buy minis that look EXACTLY like your character, or the monsters in your campaign. Even the recent "Girls' Guide to D&D" spends a lot of time talking about how "cute" and "cool" the minis are. It's clear what WotC's agenda is, here. They made their fortune selling crack cards- er- Magic The Gathering Cards-- and ever since they came into possession of TSR they've been trying to find ways to make D&D have the same level of constant near-consumable, semi-collectible purchases for players and dungeonmasters alike. For WotC it's all about how to maximize profits, and it's obvious from their release schedules and the way they limit their products that they're not in it for the joy of making a cool game like Gygax and company. Hell, in 3.5e they've been releasing 30-page modules in HARDCOVER and charging $30 for them. I miss the days of $7 adventures. I am interested in 4e, but only because I haven't played in a dozen years and kind of miss it, and this is a good opportunity to start a group of people who are equally new to the rules. If I play, I will do everything I can to avoid minis, though. I'm thinking that the PCs are going to represented by game tokens from LIFE or SORRY, and that NPCs will be different colored Hershey's Kisses, or maybe some cardboard cutouts. I am ABSOLUTELY NOT going to dump a crapton of cash into WotC's coffers by purchasing their D&D minis. They can shove their minis where the sun don't shine. And I think I will be one of those DMs who shuns everything but the core rulebooks. No buying every supplement that comes out. Player's Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual (maybe a couple of those) and perhaps the first major supplement that adds player character classes and races. We're not doing any of that crap where we buy a book for each RACE and CLASS. None of this "Complete Book of Dwarves" or "Complete Fighter's Manual" bullshit. It will be simple: If it isn't in the core rulebooks, it probably isn't in my game. And FUCK The Forgotten Realms. Seriously. I love the books and stories, but I HATE that I'm supposed to keep up on current events in a particular world every time a new novel changes things dramatically: DM: "A Banite cleric stands before you." Player: "Uhm. Bane is dead. There are no more Banite clerics." DM: "Grrr. Fine." SIX MONTHS LATER: DM: "An ex-Banite cleric, stripped of his powers, stands before you." Player: "Actually, Bane is alive again, so the cleric would have his powers." DM: "Arrrgh!" I dunno. I miss the superhero role-playing. I was always a big fan of Villains & Vigilantes, GURPS Supers, and Heroes Unlimited. I even had both editions of the Marvel Superheroes RPG. Those were fun.
Rifts... by maxwell's hammer	Mar 2nd, 2008 12:54:46 PM
Anyone here ever play with with all those Paladium RPGs? When I was in middle school, we used to combine Rifts, Heroes Unlimited, Ninjas & Superspies, TMNT, and sort of make up our own rules. I think when we were playing, having maps and miniatures would have totally sapped all the fun out of everthing.
My lvl 100 journalism mage def. your lvl 1 writing ability by Err	Mar 2nd, 2008 01:48:42 PM
haha
maxwell's hammer by Pariah74	Mar 2nd, 2008 02:12:49 PM
I am currently running a TMNT (now called After the Bomb) campaign. It's just as fun I remember. I played with D20 for the last several years and when i moved to a new area the gamers here became interested in Palladium, and they had never played anything BUT D20. One of them has had a rough adjustment but the others are loving the "new" style of role playing.
The Creepy Thin Man by Vesuvio	Mar 2nd, 2008 02:20:50 PM
No. 1.000.000 points' Guitar Hero players are faggots. Get your facts right.
I used to play the Star Wars roleplaying game by skywalkerfamily	Mar 2nd, 2008 02:32:57 PM
that was kind of fun. The force powers were cool.
palladium by maxwell's hammer	Mar 2nd, 2008 02:44:52 PM
I wish i knew some people around where I currently live that played, I'd love to get back in that stuff. btw, we experimented with Star Wars and Marvel Super Heroes (which is the first RPG I ever played...even after we switched primarily over to the Rifts related stuff, my love for comics stuck around.) I think the Palladium games just offered more 'out there' ideas, and broader opportunities for being creative and waaay outside the box in our adventures.
with all this whining about miniatures... by Mr Willi	Mar 2nd, 2008 02:53:16 PM
... you'd think you actually have to go out and buy them with a WOTC employee holding you at gunpoint. Just do what I do, purchase paper miniatures on the Web or find Web images, scale them down and print them out. I think this is a case of WOTC reacting to customer demand, for once, because a lot of players use them to get a feel for the battlefield. That said, I agree with ZeroCorpse in that WOTC charges ridiculous sums of money for their books, and you usually need more than one to run a decent campaign. Sadly that's been a trend for all RPGs these days, regardless of publisher, although you can buy cheaper PDF versions of the books. The only exception is Savage Worlds (my favorite system) which sells its corebook for only $10, which gives you a chance to try it out before you go buy other Savage Worlds books.
no smaller than large? by Staldo	Mar 2nd, 2008 05:08:23 PM
What, do Dragons just hatch out of the egg as large now? or has it been decided the hatchlings are so well hidden it's impossible to hunt down and stab the little bastards? I had fun thinking of alternate names for D&D . Furrows and Fiends is my favorite, followed by Abbatoirs and Abominations and Shrubs and Spiders.
Holy fuck by Lucifer Haywood	Mar 2nd, 2008 05:20:32 PM
never mind
Mr Willi by Pariah74	Mar 2nd, 2008 05:56:10 PM
Once again, you and the others don't seem to understand. I have a basement full of miniatures. I play several miniatures games. (Hell I have even do conceptual sketches for a miniatures company). I don't mind miniatures combat. D&D is not a miniatures combat game. Role Playing is only slowed down (or even halted) in such an environment. You could always use minis in D&D...it was just a choice before. Now, if you don't want to use a grid you have house rule things...and if I am gonna do that why would I lay out the cash for the game? Why not just play the rules already in existence that don't require a grid?
THAC0 by Stereotypical Evil Archer	Mar 2nd, 2008 08:00:23 PM

TOO MUCH MATH! by skywalkerfamily	Mar 2nd, 2008 09:13:09 PM
D and D sucks!
Nerd Alert by maxwell's hammer	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:09:49 PM
I just dug out an old Rifts book and rolled up a character. Just for the hell of it. If only i knew some other nerds to play with. That's the main drawback of being a closet nerd. Not enough opportunities for true nerd-to-nerd interactions.
Rifts is only fun to me for an out of control break... by Pariah74	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:28:06 PM
The real problem with Rifts is that it's a riot a minute to play so damn crazy to GM. When players are dropping 6D6 MDC damage 4 and 5 times a round things get out of hand fast!! lol but fun! The most fun I have had with Rifts is just using the rules and some of the classes for my own Flash Gordon/Star Wars/Buck Rogers type of campaign setting. The rules are perfect for over the top sci-fi action.
Does anyone remember the Indiana Jones game? by skywalkerfamily	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:30:25 PM
They had awesome books for Raiders and Temple of Doom.
Pariah... by maxwell's hammer	Mar 2nd, 2008 10:51:35 PM
...we crossed over Rifts with "Ninjas & Super Spies" a lot, and blew shit up all the time. It was perfect for a bunch of teenage boys. I'd love to play it again as an adult and see if it was still as fun.
Umm... by Deagle2	Mar 3rd, 2008 01:00:38 AM
Didn't this used to be a movie site?
Ain't it Cool News... Not "Ain't it Movie News" by ZeroCorpse	Mar 3rd, 2008 02:04:04 AM
I don't remember seeing any rules that require everything to be about movies and TV shows. This is more like entertainment geek headquarters. Has been for as long as I've been here, and I'm certainly one of the old-timers now.
Luckywand3rboy is a pinhead yeshiva boy by ToneTone	Mar 3rd, 2008 05:24:09 AM
I don't know if winter is coming but fall is in the air.
Shut up, ToneTone by Dickbeater	Mar 3rd, 2008 05:34:46 AM
You think your hot shit on a silver platter but you'r realy just cold diarrea on a plastic plate. BURN!!
I don´t understand anything by CuervoJones	Mar 3rd, 2008 06:13:31 AM
No comprendo.
Wow, so D&D has finally caught up with by brobdingnag	Mar 3rd, 2008 06:40:27 AM
1st Edition Rolemaster or RuneQuest that came out in the early 80' and late 70's? Good job! D&D is the Microsoft of Role Playing Games. It's the worst game but it sells the most because they advertise well.
Geez... by Wungolioth	Mar 3rd, 2008 07:48:28 AM
I haven't played in years, and gotten so used to computer games I can't imagine going through all the trouble. However, I wish I still had all those 1st edition manuals, including the Dieties & Demigods with the Lovecraftian and Melnibonean Mythos, and the original Fiend Folio. Oddly enough, my name is from an old D&D character.
Wow by MonkeyBoy88	Mar 3rd, 2008 10:48:21 AM
I would have thought that there would have been something about some of the more dynamic role-playing aspects. It good to see that WOTC got away from front-loading characters and adpoting a minion rule that's been around in some forms in other games for a really long time.
Cool articles Massa by DarthJedi	Mar 3rd, 2008 12:20:39 PM
but I have to say that after reading them, it sounds like WOTC fucked up again. All they're doing is retreading a system that sucked balls from the beginning. No alignment rules? You HAVE to have miniatures and terrain to play? WTF?!?! Sounds like all they're doing is making sure they'll keep making money because of the shit you have to buy to play now. I pretty much gave up on this system when 3rd Ed came out, and my decision is even more reinforced after reading about 4th. The only reason I can think of to buy any of these books is if they continue on with the stories and history of the relevant worlds. Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Planescape. Other than that, stick to the old 2nd Ed rulebooks.
Those of you complaining about "having to buy minis..." by jacobkosh	Mar 3rd, 2008 12:42:06 PM
Do what my friends and I do, and use pennies, Bratz dolls, and lumps of Play-Doh. It's really not that hard, dudes.
Plenty of RP discussion here by Jed	Mar 3rd, 2008 12:43:33 PM
I wouldn't play D&D with any of you "what about the roleplaying?!?!111" fatbeards. Also? Second Edition? unplayable. First Edition? Sexist. Reliance upon miniatures? Yeah, my friends and I thought miniatures were lame and we didn't need miniatures to visualise the experience, it was cheapening... then we played a single 3.0 game with a battle-mat. forget about it. This shift to a positional-based combat system is a 3.x innovation in the first place. I work in the retail end of roleplaying, and this talkback has me ready to tell my boss to scrap our entire roleplaying business. You people are untenable. If many of you had it your way TSR would still be putting out B&W 100 page tax code monster manuals. There is no pride to be taken in how complex, arcane, and archaic your task resolution system can be. you play the new edition of D&D because D&D will always need new players, and the newest edition of D&D will invariably be the easiest to learn. IF NEW PEOPLE DON'T PLAY, IT ISN'T PROFITABLE AND THERE'S NO MORE D&D. clutching your complete blabedebla, your Thac0, your non-weapon-proficiencies, holding on too tight. It's not worth the effort to try pleasing you people. It's sad.
Combat Roleplay by rengaw	Mar 3rd, 2008 02:25:55 PM
You can roleplay during combat. My clerics often turn invisible (I replace their mini with a quarter) and go around healing or buffing characters as needed. My enchantress loves to charm or otherwise dominate monsters to aid or add to the party.
God bless you, Jed by jacobkosh	Mar 3rd, 2008 02:39:23 PM
I completely agree. Of course, you're in the business of trying to get new people into the hobby, something Lardass McFatfuck and the other first-edition players at the old folks' home don't have to bother with. That was the edition, after all, that Cecil at the Straight Dope once described as "having all the excitement of double-entry bookkeeping." Everything Massawyrm wrote has me pretty jazzed about 4.0. I know my rogue friend doesn't like having to sit on his ass for half the combats and who can blame him? Why should he have to do that just because it was decreed thus back in 1972? The idea of genuinely active combats, where everyone gets to contribute and there's always something more fun to do than just saying "I attack" over and over again, is one whose time has come.
Arduin Grimoire... by Brunomac	Mar 3rd, 2008 08:27:49 PM
Long live Dave Hargrave!!!
Arduin Grimoire! :) Remember Phraints and Kill Kittens? by BlindOgre	Mar 3rd, 2008 09:15:34 PM
I wonder how many of the anti-D&D folks who profess to be fans of cool movies realize how much D&D and the like influenced film over the past 30 years, even though the official D&D movies stank like orc poo....
rengaw by Pariah74	Mar 3rd, 2008 10:36:49 PM
That's your idea of role playing? Using your character's abilities does not equate to role playing sorry. Now if your Cleric refused to use certain spells because he found them to be evil, or taboo I would call that role playing. Or if your enchantress was a shy and quiet gal who when dominating a monster absorbed part of their personality and began cursing like an orc at the PC's I would call that role playing. What you are doing is called tactics.
"I work retail" by HornOrSilk	Mar 4th, 2008 04:15:14 AM
Yeah, nerdy kid who wants high sales.... Seriously, the idea that you have accept whatever crap comes out to support roleplaying is -- just a hard sale.
Gary Gygax has died. by FluffyUnbound	Mar 4th, 2008 01:01:30 PM
And I think he deserves his own thread, Massa.
His own thread and so much more... by gotilk	Mar 4th, 2008 01:06:50 PM
unfortunately it's true. http://tinyurl.com/2qwexd http://tinyurl.com/3x2ncf http://tinyurl.com/25q9gt
D&D Co-Creator Dies by BilboRing	Mar 4th, 2008 01:12:26 PM
Run out of hit points. Should have made himself a lich. Sad news. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 80304/ap_en_ot/obit_gygax
R.I.P. Gary Gygax by Ye Not Guilty	Mar 4th, 2008 01:20:00 PM
Man, I just looked up Gygax on Wikipedia the other day to see what had happened to him since the old TSR days. I'm was an old-school AD&D player, though I haven't played in probably 15 years or so.
Ye Not Guilty by gotilk	Mar 4th, 2008 01:37:31 PM
I know what you mean. I have not been in a game for many, many years. Going to have to get the old guys together for a game now, and all-nighter. Sad, sad day.
Old School Gamers - by Brunomac	Mar 4th, 2008 02:14:14 PM
...Almost always made house rules to save time - like your own easy movement system and class restrictions. 1st Edition with house mods was the only D&D I ever needed...
Apparently by Pariah74	Mar 4th, 2008 02:29:04 PM
Gygax read this review. The good news is that if you wrap his body in copper wire and make his casket out of magnets we can power the country while he rolls over in his grave from 4th edition.
Just saying... by rutgersjaffo	Mar 4th, 2008 03:00:34 PM
When I find the guy who revamped my beloved D&D, I am gonna put on my girdle of storm giant strength and plus 6 to hit plus twelve to damage all over his ass!
Gygax the Great reaches -10 H.P. by Frietag	Mar 4th, 2008 03:07:46 PM
This should be front page news at AICN, don't you think? I mean, the ÜberGeek is dead. I mean, Ur-Geek. Mr. Gygax would have instantly corrected me on that -- he was a polymath as well a world-builder. We won't see his like again for a long time. I hope he enjoys his sojourn on the Positive Material Plane.
"Gygax fails his last saving throw"... by Frietag	Mar 4th, 2008 03:11:42 PM
...that's the most common "funny" (if affectionate) tribute I've seen from commenters on other sites. But that's ridiculous. Not because it's disrespectful; but because everyone knows that E. Gary Gygax ... ALWAYS ... made his save. (Damn. I miss him already.)
DEAD?! by rutgersjaffo	Mar 4th, 2008 03:25:17 PM
Oh man that sucks! Sorry, but for those of us familiar with the game, we all know that it's more creativity and cranial-based than anything else out there!
Was Gygax the name of any monsters? by Mel Gibsteinberg	Mar 4th, 2008 04:47:59 PM
It sure sounds like some fantastical beast from one of those massive monster manuals.
There needs to be a gygax monster by Staldo	Mar 4th, 2008 05:27:41 PM
or a whole plane called the World of Gygax, with Gygactic dragons and a race of people called Gygaxians. Or what if the God who stands behind all the archons and Solar angels throughout the planes is, in fact, named Gygax.
RIP Gary Gygax by darquelyte	Mar 4th, 2008 06:25:25 PM
This is one more geek who, for better or worse, changed the world. Without him, so many fantasy stories and RPGs would never have seen the light of day. Truly a sad day in geekdom. RIP Original Dungeon Master Gygax.
RIP!! by LordTwinkie	Mar 4th, 2008 06:44:13 PM
Give Gygax his own talkback! He's the godfather of geekdom.
How many copies of LOTR did Gygax sell? by Pops Freshemeyer	Mar 4th, 2008 11:55:50 PM
Got to believe that more than a few peeps picked up the books because of D&D...
Roleplaying as the Hated Ranger by RavenRoadkill	Mar 5th, 2008 02:41:41 PM
So, I'm the hated ranger in massa's game. As a striker, I do shit tons of damage... Yay me! As a role player I'm a broken man and refugee of the last war. Hunting and killing other broken men who do harm to civilians. My young wife and daughter were murdered in front of my eyes and it's driven me slightly insane with my only relief being killing others like myself. Lucky me, I can shoot them from a LONG way away. (Massa has to stack battlemaps next to each other lenghtwise for my short range increment to kick in.) I've made a deal with NPC bad guys to turn in the parties rogue... if I can ever get him to a town where this is possible without him killing me in the process. Then again, after the last day we adventured where he was dropped into the negative hit-points over 5 times (once by me - on purpose - we don't like each other very much) I'm beginning to have a grudging respect for the guy for finding innumerable ways to suicide. Not to mention... he's now a rogue of 9 fingers and I'm thinking of nicknaming him Frodo just to push him over the edge. I've got a thing for the elf cleric (my real life wife) but woe is me - us elves are married for life in this world and she sees me as still taken. /cry The eladrin mage and I are constantly joking about our desire to be WAY BACK HERE - kinda hard to do when crawling along 5 foot passages with zombies swarming ahead, giant club wielding skeletons playing baseball with the warrior, demon shadow panthers chewing on our asses and a flameskull cackling in the distance and raining fireballs on our heads. Yes, that was a real fight. The warlord (melee leader type) JUST figured out that standing back here with the ranged folk makes very little sense. We've been teasing him about his fear of getting hit for a while. So all in all, RP is present... and with the rules simplified to a huge degree there are soo many more opportunities for us to have effective in character dialog while still moving each combat through it's 10+ rounds. Oh - did I mention that I do a crap ton of damage... :)

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