And we have been lacking in Desmond this season. I'm missing him, brother.

It was way too much like the Oracle in the Matrix movies. I just hope it doesn't turn into the philsophical pretentious mess of the last 2 films.

and ForkTongue, they find each other so easily now because they are going to specific places. If you have to wander around and find someone it takes a long time, but if you know that they are likely at the beach or at the barracks you go directly to that location and it's no big deal.

Go figure.

as for Eggtown, i thought the dwelling on Kate's legal problems was reasonable enough: it'd have been lame if they didn't deal with it as a significant obstacle. plus i thought the final flashback redeemed any water-treading elsewhere in the ep.

Hell, I thought the oddest thing about it was that they were by the cockpit, which we haven't seen since season 1. Shouldn't there still be months old bodies in there?

While it is fun to be in the Lost universe, this isn;t really a game. All you do (so far) is walk around and pick things up and talk to people.

The character models range from dead on to completely laughable, most being the later. Only a few of the actual actors did voice work (i think Ben, Juliet, Sun,Desmond, and Claire) are original voices, the rest do not really sound much like the characters.

The game involves a guy named Elliot who wakes in the jungle with amnesia. He was on 815. His goal is to remeber who he is and get home. He experences some visions (like Jack and Hurley) of a girl he knows but doesnt know how. He is a journalist, so your first goal is to find your camera to jog your memory.

You walk around and ask different characters if they know you or if they know where your character is. You can ask them other stuff (using a list of prescribed questions) but you dont really get any answers. You do meet Kate and it launches your first flashback. You have pieces of a memory of Kate boarding the plane and you have to relive the scene and take a picture of the event to jog your memeory (this being Kate being in handcuffs. After you take the right photo you go back to present time and remeber that kate is a fugitive.

SPOILERS At the end of the first episode a guy approaches you in a suit and tie and asks for your camera, when you say you dont have it he punches you and says "I'm going to destroy that photo then kill you". He thens stomps your head and you black out. LOST End of first episode.

Episode 2 starts with Kate, Jack, and Charlie returning from the cockpit and being scared by the monster. You figure that your camera is in the cockpit but Jack wont let anyone go into the jungle. You play another flashback and realize that you have to lie to Jack to distract him. Once in the jungle Locke tells you about hiding in a thicket of trees which you will later use to escape from the smoke monster. You find Michael near a cave and he gives you a lighter. After traveling through the cave (and finding a dead polar bear) you make it out and reach the cockpit. After searching the cockpit and doing a stupide mini game you get your camera.

When you leave the cockpit you run into Ben and Juliet. They say something about "he might him or the one" and when you ask them who they are Ben replies "We're the good guys." Then Tom sneaks up and clubs you over the head and Juliet injects you with a needle.

LOST Episode two is done.

Overall the game is kinda boring so far, it was fun to talk to some characters but that gets old quick. I did manage to Gary Troupe myself by getting to close to the plane. As mentoined earlier there isn't much action yet, hopefully it will pick up. I'll keep ya posted if anything good happens.

Where did the Matrix ever mention anything whatsoever to do with Plato and Socrates? That was just typical, contemporary "seeing things that aren't actually there" angst from philsophically pretentious types...

What I can tell you is that Desmond does NOT die.

Type this out twice to do a carriage return and to insert a space between the two paragraphs -- like this...

And that is the fabled secret of the TB paragraphs.

Now I know.

Now I feel like I REALLY know.

I dont know. Still waiting/ hoping for that future death.

I've been assuming that Jin gets off the island along with Sun. That would add up to the right number of people in the O6. We've been told that we will know all of the O6 before the end of the first group of episodes. Of the episodes remaining in that group, only Sun and Jin have -centric episodes and were on the plane. To me, that sounds like they are the last two.

Then again, they could totally screw with us and have them get off the island and show us Jin dying during a flashforward. That would be weird. He'd still be on the show and still be around on the island, but we'd know he's dead later. I don't know if they'd do that or if my logic is correct about completing the O6, but it's an interesting idea.

I'm assuming Jack, Locke, and Ben. Are safe bets. Maybe a Locke flash forward when he is still on the island?

I would love for a Richard or Danielle Russuo (god I cant spell). Or maybe Widmore, Abbadon, or other Dharma figure, would be cool.

It will be interesting which five they decide to use for the rest of the season. Knowing what the producers have said about the point of this season, we probably wont get Richard or any other crazy flashbacks this season. We shall see...

It's a bummer, she's the only hott one left.....well Kate, but whatever.

http://tinyurl.com/3ayyrt

Click "Trailer (HD)"

The shows dynamic seems a little of with otu him.

Could be a coincidence, I guess.

And a samurai sword.

Her psychic said "This child cannot be raised by another." Which can also be seen as "This child cannot be raised by an OTHER." Think about it.

At the very least, it gives the writer's an out for why Kate can raise the baby just fine.

But killing a main character that a lot of the story revolves around... that's good too.

geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz

I'm hoping they keep in relegated to the island's mysterious make up...and they stay away from scenes like a room with a chair in the middle and lots of technical gizmos attached to the person in the chair (ala The Matrix)...or blinding flashes of electricity that forms a ball around the subject (ala Terminator)...

I would just like the time travel to be organic...and not explained by sci-fi mumbo jumbo.

God, I wanna read those spoilers!! Is it 9pm yet?!

RUN DOG RED

RED RUN DOG

DOG RUN RED

REDRUM

REDRUM

MURDE-

Seems to me he DID have a true psychic vision...that possibly even surprised himself...It's possible he NEVER had any real psychic ability until Claire walked into his office.

Its not enough that you get stuff like The Daily Show...err, almost Daily. Were lucky if Armando Ianuuci gets off his very talented arse or pursuedes the new bbc execs to put down the coke and the pretty boys (no offense to them, we love them, its the context etc...) and listen to reason twice a year for example.

Worm- sorry, Torchwood? To quote one of 'The Thick of It's characters, "it is, as my dear old mother would say, double-wank and chips!".

'Primeval'!? Your a lucky bunch at the mo.

Mine would be what the deal with the four toes statue.

anybody got a idea of just one Q that want answering.

with a bomb...

IN HER RIBCAGE!!!

Besides, we all know the important question is whether Jack ends up with Juliet.

Thsi show will not be cancelled with numbers like that.

While Claire may be dead, I'm pretty sure she's not the one in the coffin.

However, I do agree that Claire ain't in the coffin - although she might die.

My guess is that the man in the coffin is either Ben, Locke, or Michael.

Ben has changed before, evidenced by the several passports, and we know he makes it back. Maybe he dies after what we saw in Sayid's flash-forward - who would want to go to his funeral? That's right nobody.

Locke fits the original obituary better and nobody would go to his funeral either.

I think Michael has changed his name and we will soon 'Meet' him again. He could used another name as well and again nobody, but Walt would go to his funeral.

Now, someone please tell me I'm wrong - cause that's the point of these talkbacks right?

I've also thought about the obituary, and agree that it might not be canon. At the same time they could have ensured nobody could read it at all instead of just the little snippets that were visible - just my two cents.

in those 8 months of glorious Lost debates, general geeking out and numerous fantastic theroies we were free of assholes mostly...every now and again a hater landed in shouted something about Heroes and buggered off again, but the discussions stayed on topic and lost centric..then when season 4 started these talkbacks were (are) flooded with assholes,,,,i'll name no names(CapJack) who decide to try and spoil episodes for everyone; and other people no names again (SF); who just talk shit and try to start mundane arguments and take the focus away from this great show...the days of room 23 are long gone...

to my room 23 pals, sorry aint been about, my constant battle with poor(not seroius or anything) health mixed with band commitments and work(U know all to well Big E) has made my post count severly drop...I try to read what everyone says but am not able to contribute as much as I can......but its good to see the old gang, Node, RB, PB, Big E and others still fighting the good fight....

I'll hopefully get to see the episode somestage tomorrow(god bless the internet) and will hopefully be in to get ur views on it...

more 'HOLY FUCK' moments...I love that man....namaste

Desmond Hume...and...Penelope Widmore

Hummore? Deselope would be my favorite. Jacket (Juliet and Jack) is a close 2nd.

Real shit would have to occured to make Kate despise Claire so much she wouldn't consider going to her funeral. NOT Claire. Same with Ben, but in this case, why would Jack even SUGGEST Kate go? Has to be a person of importance to them, but there was a faling out. Sawyer is not an O-6er. Michael made it back and has an alias (maybe Kevin Johnson???). SO would Walt. Hoffs-Drawler Funeral home was in that neighborhood for a reason - we know this about our writers. Gotta be Michael. Kate wouldn't react that way about Walt. Locke would never come back and I doubt you'd see Jack cry over him. It's a he, that and the neighborhood and no turnout - can't be Juliet.

Process of elimination folks. Gotta be Michael.

My one question: explain the science behind the Orchid video from comic-com (BUnny 15..."don't let them touch!!!) That would go a long way to solving the biggest island mysteries.

My question from before - thanks for all the answers. I couldn't think of anything more clever than you guys. I like the generic food drop (with little dharma symbols drawn on). Maybe print up a shitload fake Oceanic golden tickets to litter ABC's lawn with.

"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft. Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."

So who the fuck is John Lantham? Probably Michael.
* Michael is from New York
* Michael has reason to use an alias
* Michael has a teenage son
* No one would attend the funeral because everyone who knew Michael thinks he is dead.
* Jack would feel like attending the funeral because it fits his character. Kate wouldn't because it fits her character.
* Jack says he is neither friend nor family because Jack is somewhat famous and an investigation to Jack's relationship with Lantham might reveal he is Michael to the public, which is something Jack does not want.
* Whoever is in the coffin is not what drove Jack to suicide. He was clearly distraught even before reading that article. But it did seem to affirm whatever bad feeling he had and need to go back.

The other possibility is that the man in the coffin truly is John Lantham. A character yet to be introduced.

So can we stop the whole Locke is in the coffin/Ben is in the coffin insanity? Those theories make very little sense.

Raise a Nozz-a-la for the fallen gunslinger.

Poppins will be served at the wake.

Because of its hurtling through space, it wouldn't necessarily be in the same position that it was when you left. The entire galaxy spins in a big circle, so if you were trying to send an object into the past, you'd have to find a space AND time that corresponds to the time you left. So a sending yourself back a year ago to the second, and you might be on the other side of the planet if you couldn't direct yourself.

Say the polar bear was sent into the past, but the first 'Earth' space/time it could interact with was waaaaay back when the 'Earth' was in the same position it was when it was sent. Just an idea about how the polar bear ended up in the past.

The business with Aaron being with Kate. I don't know why everyone assumes that Claire is dead and Aaron is with Kate voluntarily. Keep in mind that everything in the flash forwards we still don't know what's happening with them and how the storylines on the island play out to get the characters from the present to their storyline in the future. I think 1 of 2 things are happening with Kate and Aaron, either Kate was leaving the island and Claire gave Aaron to her in order to give him a life off the Island. This would explain why Jack does not want to see him, b/c it's a visible reminder that they left everyone behind. OR Kate stole Aaron from Claire before she left and Jack never agreed with this decision and thus never wants to see him. It's just a thought and is obviously unfounded but so is everything else in this TB.

Let me know what you guys think about this, love everything you guys are saying about the show though, giving me lots to think about/anticipate for tonights episode.

Anyway, if the article was just a prop then I would need to see the source where that was confirmed.

He'd cut hm up into 5 hefties - distribute neaty into wood box.

Fuck I love that show. Knew NOTHING about it. Downloaded seasons one and two on a whim after seeing it on CBS. THAT is awesome serialized TV...hooked me in like Angel season 3. And is close to Lost as far as really getting me hyped for the next ep. God how I yearn to be able to just download LOST Seasons 4-6 and just take a weeks vacation, whitecrosses, Diet Mountain Dew, a piss bucket and frozen pizzas. Once again - touching self.

Lost lovers - I HIGHLY recommend UNEDITED/Showtime version of Dexter. 9/10.

If you want something that the Lost producers loved and decided to sort of emulate, should look at an old BBC show called The Prisoner. FANTASTIC show with a really BAD ending. Patrick McGoohan should do an ep of LOST.

Just scroll down a little bit to The Truth about the Newspaper Clipping

THANKS micturatingbenjamin!!! I seed so much good TV, I'll turn around and download some for a change. Looking forwad to it! Pass the time between Thursdays. Don't forget - if any of ya'llcan't get the ep by 11 pm US/Eastern Time...The Pirate Bay. Edshrinker. wmv (small file size/moderate quality) file. Or just search Lost s04e05

I do this for NO OTHER REASON but for the love of the show and my wish to share to those who can't access it as early as I can. Good Karma. I've been doing the same things with Green Bay Packer games this year - share the, albeit aborted, joy.

(W/gloriously sexy acccent)"The naughty one".

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Lost, X-Files, B5, Farscape, BSG, 24, Firefly, Arrested Development, Angel, several seasons of Buffy....and I'm CERTAIN one or two will opo in my head as boarderline top shelf. So that gives you my "tastes". Lots of Sci-Fi. What I guess for being raised on Star Wars, Star Trek, Space 1999(SO Underrated tho unrealistic).

So is Angel worth your time? Putting a personal Whedonbias aside, ABSOLUTELY. By season 3, they had surpassed the mothership (Buffy)and began a mytharc that went on for the next two season or or less. And what a ride. Season 1-3 is absolute bliss. 4 was just ok, a little annoying with a character in particular that will just grate on you. Season 5 is a game-changer, enter Spike and exit annoying characters, and the best wrap-up season I could ever imagine. Wanted it to go on - but as it is a WONDERFUL job tying it all up. Whew. Any questions? Would download it - and have - just to re-watch it. I would buy the box set if I had the disposable cheddar for such things.

It took until they killed off a main character, brought in others (God I love Julie Benz), to really get in flow. They fall victim to a silly alternate reality mini-arc, but that was only a couple eps. When Darla (Julie B.)turns up - this show becomes completely addictive.

Freighter Des' consciousness gets zapped into Army Des. Forst thing he wants to do is find Pen-aheee. reasonable.

1.21 Gigawatts!!!!!!!!!

Catatonic for 75 minutes = 5 minutes to Des.

And what is Fucked up is Danny UNDERSTANDS ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE IS MY FUCKIN AUCTION! HERE COMES THE LOGBOOK!

Nose Bleeds

Seizure

Head falls to the side

"Thank you so much folks! Don't forget to tip your waitresses! Be here all the week...or not".

Don't do it Des. Don't...........

NOSEBLEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

That being said, I do love the character of Desmond. I just have to roll my eyes every time they run with this time-displacement stuff.

Count my vote for best this season, by far.

Faraday and Des.

Fightin' crime.

Takin' names.

I love this show lots.

besides that it rocks..this whole season does..

not enough Juliet however..

When 'past Desmond' goes forward there's nothing there in the mind of 'Present Desmond', just 'Past Desmond's consciousness, while in the past, where he's vacated, it's just kind of out of sync.

Timeline of Events:

1. Hatch implodes after Desmond turns the key.

2. Desmond's consciousness gets thrown to 1996, where he is disoriented, but understands what's happening because he's already experienced it, and so he tries to affect the future. Mrs. Hawking explains that he cannot continually change things that are simply fated to be, so he breaks it off with Penny, time's little anomaly corrects itself, and Desmond gets to see branching timelines as a side effect.

My Theory: Because Desmond has continually mucked about with time, when he left the anomaly area of the island, his consciousness got flung again, but this time, the past Desmond got pulled forward, balancing the equation...finishing the line that needs to happen. Answering 'What truly made Penny hunt down and find Desmond in Los Angeles', and also fitting in with Faraday's 'everything needs a center'. Both halves now are an equation, the future has traveled to the past and the past to the future.

Also, I think Ben opened the door, somehow he's on the ship and off it at the same time, which is how he can know things about the ship with no communication devices that would deliver the information. Stranger and stranger...I love this show.

And yes, that was a waste of ol' Fisher. I wonder if we'll see him again...

No, and that's what the Magic Box does, it sends you around and can be your constant, I bet. You get to go all over the place in your life which is why Michael (not 815, but the Hostile) tells Ben he has to be patient to 'be with them'.

Ben also says 'I needed spinal surgery, and the following day a spinal surgeon falls out of the sky. If that's not proof of God then I don't know what is.'

That's why the Others lie, the Hostiles lie, everyone on the island who knows what's up lies to make sure that no one screws up the timeline beyond repair.

I know alot happens on this show and it gets complicated, but come one guys, sometimes you do just have to read between the lines instead of waiting for every little detail to be explained to you.

And I understand I'm assuming alot with my post but my main point was that I don't the "the box" is an actual box I just think it was Ben being metaphorical.

And I didn't mean for that previous post to come off so asshole-ish, so I apologize for that one. Should've thrown in some "lol's" or something, hahaha

Timeline -

1989 - Desmond begins dating Ruth (U) ("Catch-22")

1995 - A week before marrying Ruth, Desmond gets drunk and is found by Brother Campbell. Desmond joins the monastery, and is expelled...meets Penelope Widmore. (U) ("Catch-22") (Note: Brother Campbell has a photo of himself with Mrs. Hawking)

1996 - Desmond asks Charles Widmore to marry Penelope, who refuses. He meets Charlie playing on a street corner, and decides to break up with Penny. (U)

- Desmond returns to 1996 because of the implosion, and decides to change the past, but ultimately, Penelope throws the ring into the Thames. (F) ("It Flashes Before Your Eyes")

- Desmond interacts with Daniel Faraday at Queens College Oxford, becoming Faraday's constant. ("The Constant")(P)

- Desmond tells Penny to expect a call on Christmas Eve 2004, and gets her number to cement Penny as Desmond's constant. (P) ("The Constant")

1996 (circa) - 1999 - Desmond completes his prison sentence and is discharged from the military. Charles Widmore immediately attempts to bribe Desmond to 'run away and forget Penny'. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")

2001 - Desmond meets Libby at a coffee shop, shortly after arriving in the US, Los Angeles. She loans him her boat to enter a one man race around the world. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")

- Penelope tracks Desmond down to the stadium where he and Jack meet for the first time, and confronts him. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")

- Desmond begins the boat race in Libby's boat. (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")

- Desmond arrives on the island and begins to push the button (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")

2004 - After accidentally killing Kelvin, Desmond causes the system failure that brings the plane to the island (U) ("Live Together, Die Alone")

During the period between the crash and November 1st, 2004 Desmond is assumed to be sitting in the magnetic anomaly, pushing the button.

The rest of the Des eps should be taken as read.

Just my idea.

Sayid, as usual, kicked twenty kinds of ass all over town. Love that guy.

I liked that Faraday's sun-lamp time freaky thingy and the hatch exploding are the same kind of technology. Thank you, Lost writers, for helping to root this story in sci-fi, and shift it just that much further away from any religious silliness. That shit was getting annoying.

Let's all raise a glass to Penny and Desmond!

Also is it possible Rousseau's crewmates "sickness" was the Brain aneurism time traveling "strange behaviour" that caused her to exterminate them ? (Though I would guess it the incorrect exit not the entrance from the Island that causes the extreme effects if not on the correct heading.i.e. Helicopter, Subs and Michael and Walts boats bearing.)

BTW is Michael being the Spy on the Boat, smashing Radios and leaving doors open, far too obvious or am I missing something ? Who is "the captain" ? I'm looking forward to that reveal myself.

If Desmond is Faraday's anchor then Desmond is not going home anytime soon unless Faraday leaves the Island at the end of this season.(Also we have still to find out why Desmond was doing hard time in the Military Prison.)

Clearly Rock Solid stuff though. Now all we need is a real Ben V Locke over Jacob style showdown.

My thoughts on "The Constant"...

- Christmas finally addressed! Now wondering if Locke was planning a "Christmas Dinner" at 6pm in "Eggtown" last week.

- Penny knows about the island. Hmmmm...just from the call from the Portugese Arctic Igloo Duo (P.A.I.D.)...or from snooping around in Dad's private affairs?

- Charles Widmore is interested in all things Magnus Hanso? Why does he want that journal so badly?

- Charles actually POINTS Des TOWARDS Penelope? Usually he's trying to get him as far away from her as possible...interesting shift that I think will have bigger significance later.

- Freight People. Omar? Wasn't that the freighter captain's name in Raiders? Speaking of the captain...who is the dude behind the binocculars? Boy, Fisher Stevens sure wasn't around long...wierd that he only lasted one episode. Probably see him in a flashback soon.

- Coordinate 305...same as the one Ben gave Michael...Anyone else still convinced Mike's Ben's "man" on the boat...who "opens locked doors" for people? I still say it's someone else...Mike is a red herring, IMO. We'll see...

- Thunderhead. Natural phenomenon...or man made island cloaking device? Rousseau arrived in a storm disabling her boat...same with Desmond...and probably with The Black Rock. Sure came outta nowhere on a beautiful sunny day, huh? Possibly another "security system" not unlike Smokie?

- Daniel kicks ass, man! In a series of impossibly great, well conceived characters (Locke and Ben come to mind), how LOST is able to top itself with new characters is amazing. So...he came to the island knowing he may at some point need a constant? Charlotte and the boys on the boat sure were tense when he started teling "secrets" about the time anomoly...I think they are being instructed to keep the island, and all it's mysteries, a secret...which certainly makes their cover as a "rescue" team moot.

- Time "Travel"...well my worst fears were put to rest...Desmond did not hop in a DeLorean and set the flux capacitor to 1996...his "consciousness" travels...not his body. Fine with me...especially tying it in with his exposure to the hatch implosion disaster. Very organic...and puts to rest my fears that LOST was going to turn into a very sci-fi "Stargatey" type show. Also glad it appears Desmond is the only one with this unique ability...well, so far...we can talk about Walt later.

- Pen & Des reunite on the phone. Pure genious. What a startlingly well edited scene, too...with their dialog overlapping at the end of the conversation. I got misty, I'll admit it....and that's hard to do.

I could go on all night about this mind blowing episode. Again...LOTS of questions raised....with answers only slowly trickling in. But that's fine by me. Everyone say a prayer for Eloise tonight...and thanks for that Desmond timeline, micturatingbenjiman...that puts things in perspective nicely...but I will still argue that Libby did not randomly "meet" Des in that coffee shop...and casually let him "borrow" her boat. I think Libby was PAID to meet Desmond in that coffee shop...and PAID to give her A boat...not HER boat...I'll even argue that Libby's name isn't even "Elizabeth"....but a cover name. She's tied to Charles Widmore or my name isn't Chief Brody.

Well...it's not...it's Cheif Brody...don't even get me started.

Now, give us your opinion, and when you get your WGA card, and fly out to Oahu and start writing the show, I'll give anything you say MORE credence than anything else I read. However, since you're just a fan, and bravo for being on the bandwagon all up in the front seat, we backseat riders have theories and shit, too, man. Damn, there's always one guy like this around to play 'Old hand'. So, I'll bite, man. You've admitted arrogance, and I don't see that, but you haven't said much in the way of theories either...So, tell me, what's it all about Alfie? What's the point of 'Lost'?

It never fails to amaze me how TPTB "play" with the standard conventions of the show from time to time. Thus, I did not "miss" the FF/FB sound effect tonight...I kinda welcome it when they take a break from that.

I have a feeling the next time they play with the original FB/FF format will be Episode 8...the Michael-centric episode.

I have a feeling it will be set ENTIRELY in the future...with flashbacks to how he and Walt were able to escape Craphole Island...and what they've been up to since returning to the states.

And...possibly how he ended up in that coffin everyone's been talking about.

My guess..Michael had no choice about where he was "laid to rest"...as, unlike the "Oceanic 6", who got to return with their original identities...I think Mike was FORCED to take a new identity...a new job...new SS#...a new apartment, etc...and forced to lie about his TRUE identity as an Flight 815, Craphole Island survivor.

I think Jack was so surprised at the Hoffs-Drawler funeral home, because he AT LEAST expected Walt to be there...but I don't think Walt ever made it off the island with Michael.

this is a test

this is a test

His past/army self is what, 8 years younger - clueless as to what is to become...and that consciousness is swapped with freighter Des who has 8 years of experiences to draw on. But that consciousness is learning by "seeing" all that is happening and changing in his past. When their full consciousnesses switch back, army Des will NOT obviously be the same - he has seen the future now and his actions for the next 8 years will be dictated by these events. Whew. Need a Percocet.

My God this is mind bending...but I got it. And it is no wonder the brain bleeds from the experience. It's too much psychic energy for the brain to handle.

I think Dharma was trying to physically manifest what some were able to do with their consciousnesses. Hence tragic accidents and Bunny 15. I CANNOT WAIT until we get more Marvin Candle/Wickmund and see what they are up to. My nose is bleeding.

Thanks Gotilk. I'd settle for a "Kate". It seems all I find are the "Libbys". Not the meeting Desmond with magic boat Libbys. The institutionalized Libbys.

micturatingbenjamin, don't let Maxwell get to you. I pointed out a now commonly known easter egg - Miles went to Ghost bust that woman's son, the "spirit" pointed him to the money and heroin. It seems the picture on the lady's wall by the stairs look just like the pic that was taken of Eko and Yemi. He went into this clever diatribe about how I'm insinuating all blacks look alike. He can be pompous and his little jokes make it clear he secretly admires Sick Fixx. At least he is up front about his arrogence. SOme use these forums to get a chip to place squarelty on their shoulder. No offense Maxwell-you are certainly educated and quite witty. Your humor reminds me of Dennnis Miller - and I like Dennis Miller. But boy - as you did with me a couple weeks ago, you sure can come off like as ass. As can I - but God I try not too. I hate that aspect of my personality.

"if you want us to stop you're going to have to shoot us"

2.) Why do people complain about the commercials? Why don't you just do what I do and fast forward through them, blipvert style?

3.) Seriously, I tape Lost and Eli Stone, then watch Lipstick Jungle, then copy Lost with the ads edited out, then watch Stone. Best triple feature night on TV this year.

4.) No, really, if it wasn't for Lost, Eli Stone, Cashmere Mafia, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, Private Practice and Pushing Daisies, I wouldn't watch ABC at all. Now that they canceled Big Shots and Cavemen, I mean.

5.)I sure hope National cancels Journeyman, though. I wasted three hours giving that piece a chance and totally hated it.

6.) Of course I mean it. Every word. I don't care if your interests are different than mine or you have better taste. All that means is that you're better than I am. so? Whatcha gonna do about it, come to my house and educate me?

7.) Yes, i said Lipstick Jungle. You wish your show had a pantyless Brooke Shields banging Paul Blackthorne up against a running washing machine. What does your show have, a couple of scruffy unwashed hobos getting it on in a bear cage?

8.) LOL

Poppins is that british nanny with the umbrella. Gunslingers would likely eat her as well, if that got them any closer to their goal.

It was pretty f’ing cool how they did the different time cuts though. Mid-sentence, mid pick-up, mid fall. Great.

I thought there was an interesting line that one of the freighters said when escorting Des to sick bay. Something about the last port of call being Fiji, so at least they new they were in the pacific. So maybe the theories people have been touting about the island itself moving aren’t to far off base.

There’s another twist on a previously said line out of Des. He’s not supposed to be there. Like Locke saying things weren’t supposed to happen.

The new characters are a great addition to the show.

“Because I need you to find me”.

;->

As for the paradox thing and Darlton saying something like Nah, Faraday when walking away from Des in the past did say something about a paradox. He also said in the lab you can’t change the future. So are we to make of this when people say things aren’t supposed to happen they are correct?

Great line by Des asking Dan what he put on his head during exposure to radiation. Maybe we know why he’s scatter brained now.

I’m starting to believe people are right about the freighters being Widmore employees. Minkowski said they were under strict orders not to answer the call from Penny. Who else would know about her making calls or trying to find Des?

Of course, on this show it could be practically anyone...Ben, Michael, Jack...Penny herself.

I love this fucking show.

If a constant is something you really care about, and if Des is Dan’s constant, does that mean Dan really cares about Des?

Going back to the island moves around thing. The Black Rock set sail for Siam but was lost at sea. The only remaining artifact is the first mate’s journal which was found in Madagascar. Hmmmmmmmm...

“After your call, someone has to tell mew precisely what’s going on”. What a great line by Sayid. Stand around watching things transpire, just observing, and then saying someone has to explain this to me. Classic.

“Short Circuit” short circuited out pretty quick. Wonder if that was it for him.

If you didn’t tear up with the phone call, please take your pulse.

Someone please remind me to breathe. What a fucking great show.

Previews for next week Ben tells Locke they have a common enemy. I slowed it down and there’s a scene where Locke is staring holes through someone. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. Possible spoiler here. I think this may tie into the end of The Economist. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over. Possible spoiler over.

What a ride!!

Anyway, I am on episode four now, still nothing too exciting.

See, it works.

- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.

Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...

- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.

Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...

- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.

- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.

- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")

- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.

- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.

- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.

- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.

- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.

- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).

- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.

- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.

Ideas?

EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.

- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.

Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...

- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.

- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.

- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")

- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.

- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.

- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.

- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.

- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.

- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).

- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.

- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.

Ideas?

EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.

- we know the BLACK ROCK was lost at sea. At the auction, they were selling off the one known piece to have come from the boat, that has only been in the possession of the Hanso family, a journal that later turned up in.... somewhere. Obviously, this journal has the approximate co-ordinates of the Island. We know Penny's dad bought the journal. Desmond gets into the round the world race (how does Mr. Whiddmore tie into getting him to do this again?), because Whiddmore is obviously hoping that Desmond would "find" the island, knowing that Penny still loved him, and would do anything to find him, especially after the comment about him phoning her in 8 years.

Tonight started to make some pieces fall into place. Here's my new, grand unifying scheme...

- the journal from the Black Rock clued the Hanso family into the fact that something happens on the island that cures all ills, so they established the Dharma group, ostensibly to do paranormal-type research, but actually to use the island as a base for finding eternal life. Somewhere along the way, they got clued in to Farraday's research in consciousness time travelling, and were trying to perfect it into full-body time travel (as evidenced by the short on the website with the teleporting rabbit). By isolating what the magic cure-all was, and perfecting time travel, you could create a perfect, eternal world.

- The Others are the survivors of the Black Rock, who realized what was going on with the Island, and don't want the secret to get out into the real world. The curative properties of the island basically retards their aging process.

- Farraday figured out a way of limited time travelling, but it's obvious that it burns brain cells. Without an "anchor", you lose touch with reality, and slowly go insane (hence his being unable to remember why the Oceanic flight was so important... no anchor). Desmond is the key to this, because the information he provides to Farraday FROM Farraday allows him to perfect (or at least, make workable) the process. The experience has something to do with exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetism. Desmond would appear to be "the ultimate anchor" (since everyone who is affected by the psychoses knows him in some way, see also Farraday's note, "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be MY anchor")

- Hanso's attempts to perfect the time travel process means there's a MASSIVE electromagnetic generator built on the island. The constant entering of the code kept the EM dampened, which allowed them to continue researching how the exposure to EM tied into the time travel. HOWEVER, since Desmond turned the key, the Island has now become unhinged from time (a large-scale effect of Farraday's work). However, it has also created an electromagnet "anomaly", which prevents the island from being found except by following precise co-ordinates (significance unknown). This anomaly also affects the flow of time on the Island.

- Jacob and his cabin have also somehow become unhinged from the timestream. I'm not entirely sure how he fits into this. I'm going to go out on a BIG limb here, and say that Jacob is Jacob from the Bible... and "Jacob's Ladder" was the earliest form of time travel discovered.

- The Boat is Whiddmore's attempts to find the island and harness it for his own nefarious purposes, under the auspices of helping Penny search for Desmond. He has figured out Farraday's significance, but Farraday is so burned from exposure and time jumping, that without the Island's healing properties, he's a brain burn.

- Benjamin knows that he needs to discover the Island's secret, because it is the only thing that will prevent time travellers from "burning out". After "seeing" Jacob, and figuring out what was ging on with time travel, he decided to keep the secret for himself, and has duped the protective Others into thinking he's doing the right thing. That's why he's so challenged by Locke... if Locke finds out the turth, Benjamin is doomed.

- The exposure to the EM pulse that crashed the plane has "awakened" Hurley and Locke, and they have become "tied" to the Island.. Locke through his healing, Hurley through his freedom from bad luck.

- Walt has also become unhinged from time, but somehow, he can manipulate the effects better, since he already had "special powers" (see, the bird in the window, polar bears, etc).

- So, in the future... Whiddmore is trying to find the Island. Hanso is trying to regain control of the Island. Benjamin is using Sayid to get rid of opposition to him, because he has told Sayid (who knows about the anchor) that his friends have all become anchored to the Island, and if he doesn't help Ben find out the secret to the Island's curative powers.... they will all die. INCLUDING SAYID. Jack's increasing erratic behaviour (talking about his father like he's alive when he's bearded) is because he has no anchor anymore, and he wants to go back to the Island, because he knows it will only get worse. Hurley's visions of Charlie are because he has lost his anchor (Charlie? The Island?), and he knows it's all downhill for him too. Kate doesn't want to go back to the Island, because she has Aaron, who she pobably believes (because of Ben?) if the key to overcoming the time travel brain burn, and she's praying that she's not tied to the island.

- The coffin was DESMOND. With his death, as a critical anchor to Farraday, all hell begins to break lose.

Ideas?

EDIT: OOOH! OOOOH! OOOOH! I GOT IT! The Island is THE GARDEN OF EDEN! The two corpses from season one were ADAM AND EVE! That's why Jacob from the Bible is there... "Jacob's Ladder" was really the first example of time travel. Somehow, Jacob managed to unhinge the Garden of Eden from the time stream the first time he "climbed" Jacob's Ladder. The Island represents the point where the word of God made Man, and the healing powers of the island are the residual effect. When Jacob was climbing the Ladder to Heaven, he ended up in the unhinged Heaven on Earth.... Eden.

Jacob's Ladder, according to Wiki, came from a dream of Jacob. He dreamed that there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, "Surely the LORD is in this place; and I did not know it." And he was afraid, and said, "This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven."

So your closing where you say the island is the garden of Eden may be correct, but it might be more correctly stated as the gateway to heaven.

As far as the anchor theory, it totally makes sense...especially the Through the Looking Glass scene with Jack talking about his father. If it is Des in the coffin, and if he's the anchor, I can see a whole lot of things being messed up. Kate, however, might not need Des as her anchor. Her's might be Aaron.

Also, looking at this as a metaphor for the show seems like too much of a coincidence not to be the case.

Good stuff!! Lots to think about.

Interesting thing about that is according to the Medrash, several angels tried to climb the ladder and failed.

So maybe even if science does find the gates, they may still not be admitted.

Crap...now I'll be thinking about this all day.

I'm wondering if there's a connection to the yellow serum that Minkowski was injected with by the freighter's doctor, and the yellow Dharma serum they were giving the pregnant ladies? And that Kelvin and Des believed to be some sort of booster against 'the sickness' while in the Swan? Maybe that's actually a radioactive agent that *enables* the timeshifting somehow, rather than preventing it?

1. Faraday is going to suffer some kind of brain injury that will make him have memory problems resulting in him forgetting some portions of his life. This could also explain why he has a caretaker and also why Charlotte was helping him test his memory with the cards and why he was having trouble with the little test.

2. I had a big issue with 1996 Desmond not remembering anything also but I guess I could accept the theory that others posted: Once the time anomaly was fixed, the Universe corrected itself and 1996 Desmond forgot about the incident but present Desmon retains the memories of it because this is the period is that the disturbance originated from? who knows but it sounds good enough to me...

3. Penny not mentioning anything about the 1996 chat after subsequent meetings could just be a plot hole but maybe Darlton will surprise us.

All I know is, Desmond and Penny is probably the best TV romance since David and Maddie on MOONLIGHTING.

Everyone on the island was either associated with the experiments taking place, or were somehow exposed to massive radiation or electromagnetism. They were constantly bouncing around during periods of time in their own lives, and were causing great disruptions on the proper flow of time. This is why the show is chock full of flashbacks - everyone is flashing a round, but something on the island, or something Ben (and Dharma) did on the island prevented people from going crazy. Desmond was okay until he left the island. These people were taken to the island to try to help cure them before they die. Their memories are constantly being erased to prevent the madness. So there was no plane crash. They were all brought to the island, and to explain why they are missing, a plane was purchased and scuttled in the Pacific.

Daniel and the BlackRock Ledger

Is it just me, or do you find it interesting that Daniel uses his notebook as a way to track changed in his past. He says to Desmond at Oxford, "if you were already here, wouldn't I know about it in the future?" The problem is that no he wouldnt. His recollections of the past would not change - so he has to continue to flip back into his journal to see if any of the notes he left in there have been altered or updated.

So then maybe the ledger from the Black Rock serves the same purpose. The ship is still on the island, but the ledger made it off, and was part of some pirate's personal effects at one point. So someone on the Black Rock made it off the island and kept a ledger. Just like Daniel. Or..... was Daniel on the Black Rock? How long has he been keeping track of the changes in the past?

And maybe the reason that "rescuing your people isn't our top priority" is because actually CURING them of their time-hopping problem IS the primary objective.

Last thing isnt a conjecture but an observation: If Poppy Widmore bought the journal in 1996, he's had 8 years to read it and respond to the information he learned in it. What if the book told him about this island and its location, and how to get back and forth from it (the author somehow got off the island), and he contacts Hanso who owned it before it was auctioned, and the two of them decide to research the island to harness its power, to manipulate time and history to actually create their massive wealth and power that they now have.

Tree of life/Fountain/Eden myth +

Shanri-la myth derived from buddism creationism and dharma-practise oppression in the that region and branching out to the west tree of life style +

other creationist thoelogical and current/historial world affairs +

Dark Tower and Time travel parallel infinite realities +

cyclical 'hell' of third poilceman +

all the other stuff =

vaguely assured outcome what lost encompases i'm placing my final bet.

Unless ur winding us up nrn. Now comes the enjoyment of seeing how its all done; and what it does and has to say in its own sweet unique Lost way. Can't wait to see what happens. Gonna go watch the new ep now...droool.

Maybe 'cause I'm too stunned...

Color me completely confused, though. Last night's episode totally fucked my mind. Question:

The time being 2004 on the freighter doesn't make sense to me, unless the calender is fake. Maybe the freighter knows that the survivors believe it's 2004, so they set the calendar there so as to not totally freak them out. I don't know.

I was expecting for Penny to be like, 'you're late'. I think she's been looking for him for 3 years because he never called her in 2004 and it's 2007 in her time. I just don't get the calendar. It being 2004 on the freighter just doesn't jive with anything thus far.

It seems that time travel, in this universe, is suscribing to the- everything happens once, then you can go back and change how it happens, but the outcome must always be the same. I don't know it's fucking confusing. I hope that Darlton is being really careful with their facts, because time travel is notoriously tricky to pull off without plot holes.

To normal people it would seem as if they just went stark raving mad...

Also, loved the Widmore bidding on the book, bit. Was wondering if they were going to tell us in the show how the black rock and hanso were related and they did. Awesome. Now we also know how Widmore comes to find out about the island.

I think you should pay attention to how these type of "side effects" have occured since the hatch implosion. The first we see of this is when Desmond turns the key, instantly after he has the same experience. The Swan was built to contain the electromagnetic charge of the island, likely to make for safe travel for the DHARMA people. Desmond releases the charge, thus making it dangerous once again.

Your mention of Leonard and Danielle's crew is definitely interesting, but with my theory of the Swan protecting incoming/outgoing people it may conflict. I always thought Leonard was at one point just positioned at the Swan and went crazy from the repetative work.

Also, Daniel mentions that the side effects change person to person, not everyone is catapaulted through time, Daniel may be speaking about himself when mentioning different kinds of side effects, since not remembering cards isn't something that looks like time travel. But now that past Daniel has a working time machine...well, he needs a constant and he's found it.

Also, remember when Daniel said "light doesn't scatter quite right"? This episode we have confirmatin that the island time is slower/different than outside and light moves in relation to time right? Light moves at a speed, and time is slower causing light to scatter differently than the rest of the world.

They haven't told us how long after the crash the fake wreckage was discovered, that would answer a lot of questions...

There it was again. And it was a room with the number 23 on the door. It was constant, but now it's gone...except when I go back. I'm here now, but there are people here I don't know. I need something familiar. Something constant between there and here.

Help before I.........

sweet evangeline

bring that sexy frame to me

we will make a child.

Not too much excitement. It opens with your character awakenig after being clubbed by Tom and stuck by Juliet. You awake on the beach and find out from Hurley that "Steve or Scott) was killed and Claire was stuck with a needle.

Your goal is to repair your laptop, to help recover your memory. After talking to Sayid you find that Locke has your battery. After talking to him, he tells you you dont need to recover your past. "The island gives you a fresh start."

You still want your battery so it launches into a flashback. During this you see Locke trying to sell back his camping gear from the walkabout at a pawn shop. You see him in his wheelchair. Your character then uses this to blackmail Locke into giving you the laptop battery. He tells you to follow him into the jungle.

After wandering around the jungle you come across the Hatch, dug up and exposed. Nothing to do with it so you continue on until you find a cave. Locke gives a Star Wars speech about finding in the cave what you take in it.

After wandering through the cave you see the visions of the dead girl again. Eventually you find a skeleton holding a compass. Locke makes you give him the compass.

After examining the compass Locke tells you the island gives you things, saying "The island gave me the Hatch to share with everyone, when the time comes". He then tells you the island gave your character the compass.

The compass is old and has the words "Via Domus" written on it, which Locke explains means the way home in Latin. The compass works similar to the one in pirates of the Caribean, it doesn't point North, I guess it points to what you need, or what you need to do to get home.

LOST...end episode 3

It's a possibility that Lost time travel operates this way but I doubt Darlton will ever fully spell out the mechanics of time travel in the show...way too complicated for the general audience.

the theory from the Chricton book was my suggestion to explain how Desmond was time travelling to the past. however, the more i think about that Darlton interview the more I am second guessing this theory. Because it would have to apply to all time travel on the show such as the Orchid orientation video...aaaahhhh my head is going to explooooode!

side note: speaking of the orchid film, anyone notice how marvin candle flipped out about the two rabbits being so near each other? he was yelling 'get them away' from each other or something like that...you think there are any crazy side effects of the same object touching itself in the past a la 'Timecop'?

Ben's group will stop at nothing to protect the Island. It has a mystical power that man has sought after for years, and now the war is heating up. Just my thoughts.

Time Travel is confusing.

Ok, this is almost 100% certain to be crap, but since I can't stick with a theory for more than a week (if that long), it's my new pet theory.

Facts:

Faraday told Frank to follow a specific heading. Last night we saw that that specific heading (according to the map and the instruments) was 305. Drifting off of that even a little bit caused Desmond to become unstuck in time.

In "Live Together, Die Alone", the finale of Season 2, Michael and Walt are leaving the island and Ben tells them to follow heading 325 and they will find rescue.

Ben may lie outright some of the time, but even more often what he means is not what you hear.

Walt still exists in the universe of the show and it has been acknowledged that he has changed and is taller. (Resulting in the wonderful line, "Who are we to argue with taller, ghost Walt?" but unfortunately, that's off topic.)

Despite Walt's changes, we know that it is December of 2004 on the island, on the freighter and in London, indicating that time dilation issues happen when entering or leaving the island, and that time on the island itself is pretty much the same as off the island.

Michael is coming back.

Ben has a man on the freighter.

Ben has the ability to convince people who hate him and don't trust him to work for him for the supposed greater good.

Ben has the ability to produce things (e.g. Locke's father, information on everyone on the plane) from practically out of nowhere with almost no warning.

Complete conjecture:

If moving away from a 305 can cause one to have "side effects" as experienced by Desmond, perhaps going to certain other headings can allow for more specific changes. If one were to go to 325 perhaps rather than becoming unstuck in time, one would move back in time a certain amount.

Ben, knowing that Walt and Michael were important, sent them away but not back home. By sending them to 325 instead of 305, he caused them to leave the island and arrive at their destination in the past.

A few years in the past, Ben meets up with Michael and convinces him that the people on the island are in danger and that only he can do anything about it. Michael, eager for redemption for betraying his friends, agrees.

Jumping forward what I'm guessing is a couple years (of Michael and Walt time), the freighter arrives, bringing with it Ben's man, Michael, who has been preparing for this since he left the island.

Meanwhile, Walt will have aged two years physically by being sent back and living in the past.

Assumptions:

Bodily time travel is possible in addition to consciousness travel.

Present Ben is able to travel or to influence past Ben in some way. This would explain both the information gathering, which would need to have started before the crash, and the abduction of Locke's father. (Maybe past Ben simply works by accepting instructions from Jacob which will make no sense until some time in the future.)

Walt and Michael were not...at least up to the point where we saw them boat away.

IMO

In other words, when Desmond called Penny did Penny know he was going to call because he told her in the actual timeline? Or when Desmond got Penny's number in the past, that wasn't the actual timeline so it never actually happened. So she wouldn't have any idea that he would be calling?

I had always assumed the latter. You can go back in time, but it doesn't change anything. And all you can really do is acquire knowledge that may help you in your decisions in the actual timeline. But it seems a lot of people think it's the other way, Harry Potter time travel rules

Anyway my point is, it probably is 2004, but I don't get it. How is the island moving at a different timespeed if it's in sync with the freighter AND london.... Maybe Desmond is calling her in 2004, but in real life it's later. MAN I just don't know.

We know that Faraday is wrong that the future can't be changed. We saw Desmond change the future numerous times when saving Charlie. However, as Desmond was once told, the universe has a way of course correcting itself. Therefore, while the future can be changed in the short term, the end result will ALWAYS happen no matter what. The mouse would learn the maze whether or not it went through time, it's death was the result of having no constant, despite the fact that it only travelled through an hour (presumably), however the small mouse brain may not be able to take the same quantum pounding as a human brain can take.

Leave my brain alone!!!

Maxwell - I'm done with you. But for the last time, the Eko/Yemi thing was a possible Easter Egg, not a theory. I have screen shots on my computer and the resemblence is eerie. It's fine if you don't agree. But it was the way you didn't agree thay made you sound like an ass. That pompous, cute little story of how I insinuated-because there was a picture of a black kid, I must assume all blacks look alike since I thought it might be Eko. Which sounded self-rightous and silly. Again, like with so many others - it's not what you believe, it's how you express it. You can disagree without pulling a krycek and being insulting. I may not be all that intelligent - but I am well educated. Has to count for something. I'm not a smart man, Jenny - but I know what love is.

It looks like Faraday is in a hatch, which we can guess is the Orchid with a buzzer like The Swan. Insane.

It's possible that this episode is the best time travel one ever but it still logically breaks down.

You want the Yankees to lose the World Series. What can 1 person really do? Shoot the #1 pitcher? His replacement might shine. Run on to the field to kill them all - someone would stop you. Plant a bomb...ok, everyone dies...but the Yankees still don't lose. They replay the game in a year and the Yankees still win. One person change history in a significant way - NO. A group of people maybe. But not an individual.

It more like what Dan tells Des in the past. You can't change the future. I just listened to the podcast and D&C said they are not doing that type of paradox...where if you change something in the past the future changes. So it seems in their point of view we are fated to a conclusion regardless of our actions.

It also seems to go along the Des/Charlie line. No matter what des did to save Charlie, eventually he was going to die. About the only thing Des changed was he died honorably. In other words he changed the reason but not the outcome.

just playing- don;t mean to flame or anything like that ;)

Also, last night's episode doesn't jive with Desmond rescuing Charlie two or three times last season. If you can't change the future then why COULD he even save Charlie? The writers need to decide...free will or predestination. They are mutually exclusive.

The assumption that you can't change the future but you can delay it a little isn't logical. What defines "a little?"

It's not like these writers on this show are the first to ever work out a coherent time travel story. I would argue that it's impossible.

Why??

Because if Jack ever fools around with her, we have a.....

JACKALOPE Ba-Ding-Ding

tap...tap...tap

Is this thing on?

I think that scene also hinted as to who the "original" Others are/were (the crew of the Black Rock).

This episode also suggested what happened to Danielle's crew.

Overall, great episode that started to tie several threads together and hinting at more connections and answers to come. I even found myself getting choked up when Desmond and Penelope finally spoke to one another -- and I'm not typically into romance stories.

Gaiman on the other hand is an acquired taste. His books are more like fables and he isn't concerned with reality- he's concerned with themes, and character development, and emotional impact (god im a homo). he's a writer's writer. You should check out his two short story collections, Smoke and Mirrors and Fragile Things. My favorite stories of his are out of these anthologies. And I am still waiting for the Good Omens adaptation to be made.....!

the island is a singularity of sorts. not in the sense of the theorized "singularity" from hawking and origins of the big bang stuff. it exists in two distinct realities. one reality, the reality we know, is the reality in which 1996 des was. this was the reality that the 815 survivors came from. the other reality is the island's universe. at the center of this universe is a deity and that deity is the island.

LOST yet?

now. what this does (in a very cheap shortcut kind of way) is explain automatically almost every anomaly that we have seen on the island. the truth is, the mystery of DI, hanso, polar bears, smoke monsters, character connections, hostiles, natives, stations, it is all part of the mythology of the island. it needs no explanation. imagine the island as a deity who sits in a bath tub (it's reality) and plays with it's toys.

now, the island exists in our reality as a place with various scientific anamolies and is located in the south pacific but is nearly impossible to find because it spends most of its time off the coast hidden off the coast of madagascar in the island reality. their are two doors to this singularity. one in the pacific and one of the coast of africa.

now, let's talk about what DOES exist both in the island's reality and our reality. Desmond exists in both. The electromagnetic properties of the island are real and these properties are the engine of the singularity. Desmond has become able to exist in both realities, but never at the same time. same with minkowski

Walt exists in both. He is special. It has something to do with the fucked up electromagnetic shit that goes on with him that makes birds kamikaze themselves because they have no idea where they are going.

Ben Linus travels between both realities, but he does it physically. This is because he doesn't need to use any bearing to get in and out. he uses the "magic box" that daniel farraday created, which he took by either force or stealth. danny did it! he created a machine that could transport both mind and body between both realities.

Here are some things that might suprise you to know DON'T exist outside of the island's reality. First off, many of the experiences we've seen the characters have in flashbacks just didn't happen that way in our universe. personal experiences that shaped who these characters are happened, but the interconnectivity was never real. i.e. christian shepherd having a convo with sawyer in sydney back in season one. never happened in our reality. nor in sawyers. the island gave him that memory. that is part of the island's reality and thus those memories were fabricated. The DI never existed in our reality. Neither did Hanso. Now, the hanso that went there on the black rock did exist. It was his diary that made it possible for Mr. Widmore to get that freighter to the island because there was a bearing or directions or something in there. and the diary was sold at auction by someone who's been sneaking behind ben's back on the island (richard? since he has been off the island to get juliet, they are a crossover character too). the oceanic six got home by farraday's machine, that's why they don't have the fucked up consciousness shifting.

now, my theory is going to stop there for now and i'm just going to do some rebuttals with questions that arise to see if it holds. but lastly, here's some fun things that support my theory.

the numbers exist only in the island reality. did you notice mr. widmores bidder ID number at the auction was 755. the other bidder number was something else but neither number had anything to do with THE numbers. (i'm sure some of you will give me some way of making it to the numbers from 755, but hey you can find SOME way back to any set of numbers). that's because in that reality, those numbers don't mean anything. now, the numbers did work their way into that universe but only when it had to do with the island. like hanso's journal being item 2342 at the auction. that's just a carry over of the island's mythology with objects that have been in both. desmond's affection for penny exists in both so her flat number was like 423 or something number related.

the black and white imagery throughout the show represents both realities.

i don't know, whatch yall think.

Have at it node...or not.

Reading Sandman as it was coming out was quite a trippy experience. So was going to visit friends at MIT and coming away that every girl there wanted to be Death because they were all running around with ankh necklaces. I've actually stayed away from Pratchett because of the experience so I am otherwise unfamiliar with his work. I don't begrudge the experience of reading "Good Omens". It was simply the book equivilent of "Hey guys, did you know that SAM RAIMI and THE COEN BROTHERS made a film together? It's called CRIMEWAVE!!!! Let's go watch it!"

Hijinx ensue.

So does 815 count as an open vessel, since it broke apart, or not?

Also.. i thought the Black Rock part of last night's ep was great.. but i am betting "The Log of the Black Rock" will be available for purchase around say june/july 2008. "Bad Twin", or for that matter "The Diary of Laura Palmer," all over again.

He attended Harvard College in Cambridge, Massachusetts, as an undergraduate, graduating summa cum laude in 1964.[3] Crichton was also initiated into the Phi Beta Kappa Society. He went on to become the Henry Russell Shaw Traveling Fellow from 1964 to 1965 and Visiting Lecturer in Anthropology at the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom in 1965. He graduated from Harvard Medical School, obtaining an M.D. in 1969, and did post-doctoral fellowship study at the Jonas Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla, California, from 1969 to 1970. In 1988, he was Visiting Writer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. While in medical school, he wrote novels under the pen names John Lange and Jeffery Hudson. A Case of Need, written under the latter pseudonym, won the 1969 Edgar Award for Best Novel.

But that thing about Daniel crying being linked to time travel is pretty mind shattering. Wicked.

"I take it you've had second thoughts and you'd like her to give you another chance..."

Seems like every time they meet he gives Des a chance to take the easy way out - like a test...

I'm starting to understand what the producers mean when they say the story will unfold in the proper order, jumping back and forth in time, like a book - like Pulp Fiction in a way, as someone has already mentioned.

So until that particular moment in 2004 there was a sort of alternative universe which loops back to 1996. Des lived those alternative eight years not knowing Faraday or Penny's phone number - and a whole bunch of other stuff - but the island allows him to ride the loop back and forth, thus influencing events and altering the universe inside that loop. The first time Sayid asked him for the phone number he really didn't know it - let me be clear about this - NEITHER 1996 nor (dormant) 2004 Des knew Penny's phone number until he did another loop the loop. It's not a paradox because they cheat and allow him to have an anchor - a "constant" - and that's how he avoids the paradox which would ultimately fry his brain, otherwise.

Ahh the irony in having Minkowski haemorrhage under the weight of his own paradox! I bet when he was on that ferris wheel he was sticking a knife into his own grandfather!

heheh - interesting actually, that 2004-Minkowski made a comeback before he died - I presume that was all 2004-Minkowski we saw, right? It affects different people in different ways right? I wonder how it affected Ben?

So glad to hear all the Slaughterhouse Five references! I was totally thinking of the Tralfamadorian holistic view of time last week when I was considering Ben having a sort of future-knowledge of events - having that same holistic view, in fact...

So Faraday's memory is indeed rubbish - and that's why he needs his journal? When Des asks Faraday why he doesn't protect his head from the radiation, Faraday says something like "indeed" - like what would be the point? If he ends up time travelling like Des, like Eloise (nice H.G. Wells reference!) - which is a fairly safe assumption - he needs to have a strong enough mind and he needs a constant, or he will die.

AARGHGH! My brain's hurtin jus processing all this!

btw did anyone spot somebody familiar (besides Widmore!) at that auction?

Numerous times, but not all, when Des goes back it, there is running water...rain and the running faucet predominately.

Thoughts?

I love the idea that Faraday crying and saying "I don't know" why is because he was unstuck in time - Desmond couldn't be his constant at that point in his life, could he?

So Ben's man on the boat destroyed communications and opened the door for Des and Sayid? Couldn't be any of the people on the island at the time (including Frank) or Minkowski and I'd be damn surprised if it was Michael actually, at this point. Can't see them giving him that kinda freedom on their boat - I'm thinking Ben gave Michael a dodgy heading as a parting gift, hoping he never has anything to do with Walt ever again - but we know Michael survives and if that was truly Walt helping Locke then he survives too - but I think it's beyond speculation they might be on the freighter.

Either it's someone we just met (that scary doctor who obviously injected Minkowski with a placebo and wasn't interested in giving Des the same?) or maybe someone we've only heard so far?

Um...feel very self-obsessed & stupid but moved enough to commit this, i hope people take this as something for perhaps everyone to identify with in their own way. Here goes:

This ep confirmed it; for better or worse my three closest soul mates on Lost are Locke, Des & Daniel. Like Locke, always get caught up in absolute obsessive often dark personal dicovery of the islands and minds mysteries, in a sense of philosophical purpose that doesnt always effect as very inward or outwardly constructive or fulfilling as opposed to the opposite; yet the ying & yang, it gives me purpose, passion inside, its my pheonix, my building-bleeding menstruating womb (remember in 24hrs Party People, M.Winterbottoms theme's of cycles & the wheel of time: "I Know what you are mate...A Cunt!" Also check out Herzogs 'Wheel of Time'). I couldn't take on a polar, or throw a knife like firing a gun. I havnt had to overcome being paralysed from the waist down, but... am a discerning buddist.

This also transcends to Daniel. Heavily invested in & impassioned with the raw calculated yet aestheticly beautiful understanding of science and metyapysics, atrophysics, time travel & dimensions, surrounding and making up the very fabric of our 'island'. I guess this might be cos - no big deal - am autistic, have a very mild form of aspergers. Certainly am not a super-hi IQ post-grad genius physisct proffessor at berkley like Daniel! but...

...i'll also say - giving no recomendation whatsoever at this point - that as i understand it, theres a plant called Salvia gives you a very 'absorbed' experience in memories/conscious in the past being in direct contact, through time/space, with your present and pointing to your future;

starting & repeating like being - almost quite literally - on a ferris wheel(!); revolving from up at the celing over your body, (and held through an elastic-webbed, ship-rigging-type-rope, gravity-webbed-force fabric) down through the floor into your past memories...

...at this point now while, up & burried in the sky, your friends in the room with you in the present are talking or calling to you; if you ignore them/get them to stop talking you delve more, if u focus on em you come right out of it...Not that I can claim to have done this of course!...Incidently, Salvia part of the shit Mayan priests priests were inhaling in the temples, and that various ancient cultures still practise today (see Twin Peaks origional S1 DVD extra with actor who played L.P's fathers dicussing it)...

...which brings me to Desmond. Ahh Des. To any others who mentioned this themselves: I really feel for you guys, if i am, so's obliged to, Sirs. Knew my own Penny. Funny, she also looked quite a bit like Kate. A venezuelian-Spanish Kate. Dressed like her, at least on-island too. She was my perfect. My constant. Nothing became more important nor has since. But, obsessed with studies, career, my manhooded pride; with making something proper and becoming something good enough for someone like her; and thinking i need to 1st go run that race track and THEN be with her... I got Lost, and I Lost her...and did not then end up pushing a button and saving the world! But did stay in a hatch drinking & smoking for a long time.

And everytime - as im sure most people here identify with - your present smacks harshly back and forth with the past entwined, you can appreciate the idea of it not sustaining your mind and physical being at all eventually; in this case, nose bleed style!... And bugger it, unlike Des, she aint gonna be waiting. I have no constant no more.

And so since Des has been introduced i have, like Daniel, reverted to the natural comfort of pouring over the fail-safe-key-in-fountain-core , electomagnetic time/dimension travel metaphysics aspects...yet all the while, along with Locke, wallowing in the comfort of identifying or having a connection with Des; in proper vain, scarred, self-obsessed, drama-queen style!... Were all human, right!? Every Des ep hits that way...

...up until the very end of this one, where Dan opens his notebook, to find his lost conscious memory has wrote: "If things go wrong Desmond Hume will be MY constant". That punched me in the gut, brain, and put the fucking chills up me!...there we go feel very exposed & silly now.

p.s one more thing almost forgot to say: Fucking brilliant episode.

Also the only evidence I can remember of physical Time travel are the excavated Polar Bear and perhaps the skeletal couple. Who ARE crucial but won't be adressed this season (Possibly Naomi Dorrit's task after 4 toed statue and "the Temple". Which might be the end of season reveal or next season opener)

Multiple timelines are hinted at in Faraday's journal but too many and you simply devalue the show TBH. In a TV show universe where absolutely anything can happen nothing is of real significance. So I would guess if they go for any alternate realities then at the most there would be one catastrophic one they are all trying to prevent. (Problem being it's hardly an original plot these days as well as the fact that the show has said several times now the future cannot be altered.)

Final thoughts. The Volcano is still to be featured, Bens childhood sweetheart Annie and her fate plays a crucial role. Richard Alpert had a "piratey" look to me on Ben's flashback so is he a Black Rock original ?

P.S. Anyone know when season 5 is planned to begin ?

Do you think the incident involved the attempt to take Danny's work to another level -a physical trip (not just consciousness) in time...Wickmund grabs "his" own arm (the reason he freaked about the bunnies getting too close to each other) and the arms -meld/distort/implode..who knows, but bad things. Possibly they have accidently created a couple Dr. Marvins...hence the need for different last names. Just speculating. I think we are geting close to an answer about this soon

(ie Bad Twin, Ben clone, visions of dead/missing folk)

Maybe this is way off the mark. But Dharma was up to something other than shifting consciousnesses...those were 2 bunny 15s and the "field was set to -20 ?...something like that. Bunny was to go back 20 minutes, but somehow manifested early right there behind him?

Des is traveling 8 years apart...little chance of a Wickmund type accident for now. But if he stumbles on to something in the Orchid (where Juliet is heading in the net Ep in a flashback ...Ren says: "eeeeeeeee!!!"

THIS is going to be good. The clips we see...is it CS and Danny messing with that same equipment in the Orchid? No wonder Juliet wants to shoot them. Is it Thursday yet??

Asked this once and am still curious on the who would you rather:

GothClaire...Lost.........or

ClaireBear...Heroes (must dress in chearleading outfit).

Just askin.

the time change seems to only affect people who have been in contact with radiation or electromagnetism....ah the hatch comes back again to haunt folk...

Daniel having Desmond as his failsafe was a good move too..he obviously was subjected to alot of radioation murdering Eloise so its weird how he didnt get affected...

I've been looking forward to Fisher Stevens being in teh show now for a while, I hope thats not the end of him..

Sayid is getting some great adventures this season,,, bout bloody time as well

I love Penny's funbags

Nice to see old Charlie having a piss while talking to Des, and the black rock details, maybe this is the start of the search for Charlie and the Island..

an all round absolutly stunning episode...Des episodes have taken over Lockes for greatness in my eyes...they are constantly fantastic

No matter how much some hope Ben ends up some sort of Good Guy...I doubt he cares enough about Sayid and Des to send Mike on a mission to save them. Save himself maybe, but not the 815ers. Unless he is REALLY a master puppeteer and Des/Sayid serve a his purpose later.

To each their own...

Here...the person Faraday is based upon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik i/Julian_Barbour

We are not witnessing "flashbacks" or "flash-forwards" but slipping consciousness - for all of them. Only those who have had exposure to heavy radiation have become aware of it. Jack, et al.. can have conscious slips without others being aware of it, (falling, staring off...), because of the time anomaly of the island. This is how the Oceanic 6 will end up back on the plane to bring things full circle. They are the constants that tie everyone together.

As for Farraday, he exposes himself to his experiment after Desmond leaves and has been continually shifting through time since then. What's his constant? His book, that continually re-writes itself to fill in gaps of his past after events occur.

Farraday's book will turn out to be the Black Rock book bought at auction by Penelope's father, which is the basis for his sailing contest.

The book's pirate backstory plus the cargo vessel Desmond and Sayid land on are allusions to Kong '76.

The spy in the boat will be the Greek guy that doesn't age who befriended Ben as a child and brought Juliet to the Island. He is going to turn out to be some kind of archangel opposite Abbadon.

The Black Box is a metaphorical Macguffin for Pandora's Box. Ben probably conjured the Box as a way to explain what he can do. It should tie-in to the Black Box on 815 since, IIRC, they haven't ever shown it.

It's a cool theory tho because alot flashbacks have other survivors unknowingly in the background which one could argue serve as constants for the central 'flashbacker'

http://tinyurl.com/2xsx45

Its 24 minutes. Click on Norderlicht - Killing Time (2nd option is the vid)

In case you ever get a clue, we'll leave the light on for ya, buddy.

Wow, my brain just exploded.